Kind of a comic newbie....

[chandlerbong]

Ever since I started following Batman Begins, back in, August 03', I started to lurk on the boards and see some of the discussions that bat-fans were having about the film. As I followed production, and started to pick up and learn some of the Batman Mythos, I felt a little in the dark, "comic book-wise." After finally building up the nerve to buy, The Long Halloween, Dark Victory, and Haunted Knight, I came home and read TLH from cover to cover in about an hour, and couldn't believe how great of a read it was. I put the books away, and then forgot about them. After the press release of The Dark Knight I got pumped and amped and just reread TLH.

My questions are:
1.Who's the real Holiday?, and a little explanation would be awesome!
2.What the order of the books I bought? Is it TLH, then Haunted Knight, then Dark Victory?
3.Finally, what are some other good graphic novels to buy? I heard The Killing Joke was good from the Dark Knight forums, and Hush seems to have mixed reviews her from what I've read.

In advance, theank you for all your help!:up: :)

[Joker]

1.Who's the real Holiday?, and a little explanation would be awesome!

up to debate, I say it was Gilda Dent up until the coroner, where Falcone took over, but others say Harvey was in there, I dont think so though

2.What the order of the books I bought? Is it TLH, then Haunted Knight, then Dark Victory?

I would agree, but Haunted Knight must take place during TLH, it just never crossed over with the main story from it.

3.Finally, what are some other good graphic novels to buy? I heard The Killing Joke was good from the Dark Knight forums, and Hush seems to have mixed reviews her from what I've read.

The Killing Joke is the definitive Joker story, with Man Who Laughs in a close second...I thought Hush was great, and if you liked TLH, HK, and DV you should definitly pick it up...alot of people love Dark Knight Returns, although I only liked the two-face story and the superman fight, the rest sucked imho...Year One is incredible :o

[CConn]

Batman and the Monster Men (which will be released in TPB later this month) is also quite fantastic, IMO.

[Mister J]

The first two questions were pretty much covered. In adding to the graphic novel mention, I'd underscore what The Joker said about The Killing Joke, The Man Who Laughs and Year One. I'd recommend Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth as well.

[Spare-Flair]

I like Hush more than the Killing Joke. I think the Killing Joke is overrated with a flimsy characterization of the Joker's plot (and pathetic ending with a crappy joke) only for the purpose of driving his origin vehicle.

With Hush, I got to see all my favorites and go through Detective twists and turns.

[Cobblepot]

The ending of TKJ was brillaint, Joker knows if he doesn't do anything about it. He'll be beat to a bloody pulp, thus he diffusses the situation with a Joke. A lot of people would do something simulair in a situation like this, he just takes it a little further. Plus the "smile" on batsys face was priceless...heh.

[Fear of god]

Batman: The Cult

it's like No Man's Land & Knightfall in one book and a little bit morbid.

[Joker]

the joke at the end of killing joke was the only way to end it. It showed that Joker did in fact know that if him and Batman dont stop the endless cycle of murder and revenge that they're on, one or both of them is going to end up dead. the problem is, he knows it's too late for him, and that there's no way to bring him back from his insanity at this point. The joke was a moment of clarity for him when he realized this, and perfectly summed up his and Batmans whole situation, both of them crazy, but on different sides of the chasm of the roof of the lunatic asylum.

[Punch]

^ it also demonstrated that even in a society where men dress up like bats, the Joker is still outside the conventions of that society.

[Spare-Flair]

All it demonstrated to me was a pointless story device used to change Barbara's character dramatically and also to flesh out an origin.

Otherwise, TKJ was nothing but pure anticlimatic storytelling and it's horrible. Batman and the Joker laughing together on a hill over a stupid 100 year old joke that everybody's heard? It's just bad. Joker's the one doing the murdering, the scales are not even balanced enough for that kind of an ending.

[Goddamn_Batman]

All it demonstrated to me was a pointless story device used to change Barbara's character dramatically and also to flesh out an origin.

Otherwise, TKJ was nothing but pure anticlimatic storytelling and it's horrible. Batman and the Joker laughing together on a hill over a stupid 100 year old joke that everybody's heard? It's just bad. Joker's the one doing the murdering, the scales are not even balanced enough for that kind of an ending.

Wow man. Did Moore beat you up at a convention or something?

[Archangel]

Wow man. Did Moore beat you up at a convention or something?

Probably not, but he totally should.

[hippie_hunter]

1.Who's the real Holiday?, and a little explanation would be awesome!
What I love so much about this book is that after years that it has come out, this is still up for debate. In my opinion Holiday was Gilda Dent, Harvey Dent, and Alberto Falcone (everyone agrees that Gilda and Alberto were both Holiday, like the Joker said, Harvey is up for debate)

2.What the order of the books I bought? Is it TLH, then Haunted Knight, then Dark Victory?
The Long Halloween and then Dark Victory. Haunted Knight is not in continuity but it is still a good story.

3.Finally, what are some other good graphic novels to buy? I heard The Killing Joke was good from the Dark Knight forums, and Hush seems to have mixed reviews her from what I've read.
Batman Year One
The Man Who Laughed
Batman and the Monster Men

* As you can see these are stories that take place in Batman's early days before he became such a paranoid dickwad with a clusterf**k of villains, sidekicks, and gadgets. This is my favorite period of Batman stories.

Robin Year One
Batgirl Year One
Nightwing Year One

* I like the Year One stories, even though they feel nothing like Batman Year One.

The Killing Joke

* Alan Moore is awesome!

Batman: Under the Hood

* The resurection of Jason Todd is quite controversal, but I loved Winnick's run on Batman, asides from Superboy Primes Super-Emo-Crystal-Wall-Shattering-Continuity-F**king-Up-Punches. Too bad Jones f**ked it all up in his terrible run on Nightwing.

[Joker]

All it demonstrated to me was a pointless story device used to change Barbara's character dramatically and also to flesh out an origin.

Otherwise, TKJ was nothing but pure anticlimatic storytelling and it's horrible. Batman and the Joker laughing together on a hill over a stupid 100 year old joke that everybody's heard? It's just bad. Joker's the one doing the murdering, the scales are not even balanced enough for that kind of an ending.

you are aware that Killing Joke was originally not in continuity, arent you? so it wasnt an excuse to change Barbara at all, because she wasnt actually supposed to have been changed by it. The response from the fans on the story was so positive, and it was such a great book, that they put it in continuity.

[Qoèlet]

(everyone agrees that Gilda and Alberto were both Holiday, like the Joker said, Harvey is up for debate).
Sadly, for certain folks around these boards, Gilda being Holiday is for some reason very much up for debate. I can't understand it myself, but I've seen the most longwinded, sense-defying explanations of how it's "unreasonable" to say Gilda was really the killer and how she instead has this bizzarre mental condition brought on by stress, thus convincing herself that she was really the killer.... because, you know, that's WAY more reasonable than the thought that she might actually do things that she says she did. :down

But yeah, if Harvey fit in or not, that's uncertain. That's sort of the point.

Overall, the best storyline, which should be read over and over again, has got to be Knightfall and Knightsend. On The Killing Joke issue... I thought it was good, but not fantastic.

[Revovler]

Harvey along with Gilda and Alberto is Holiday. At the end of the TLH when Gilda is burning the clothing she says Harvey had the same idea and shot Alberto. Also Two face says "you know there were two" not considering Alberto. Well that is my opinion. As for The Killing Joke I really believe you should get The Man Who Laughs along with it because it seems to me to be the climax.

[Joker]

No, Harvey knew that Alberto was Holiday, because he was caught and it was in all the papers. He also considered himself Holiday for killing The Roman at the end on a holiday, and never knew Gilda did anything. Gilda killed everyone up till Alberto, who faked his own death, and Gilda thought that Harvey had taken over after her example. But, I guess Harvey could have also done some of the earlier ones, in between where Gilda and Alberto switched, but I like to think he still had a handle on his sanity until he was scarred.

[hippie_hunter]

No, Harvey knew that Alberto was Holiday, because he was caught and it was in all the papers. He also considered himself Holiday for killing The Roman at the end on a holiday, and never knew Gilda did anything. Gilda killed everyone up till Alberto, who faked his own death, and Gilda thought that Harvey had taken over after her example. But, I guess Harvey could have also done some of the earlier ones, in between where Gilda and Alberto switched, but I like to think he still had a handle on his sanity until he was scarred.

I always assumed that Gilda was the killer from Halloween to Thanksgiving, Harvey was the killer from Christmas to St. Patrick's Day, Alberto from April Fools Day to Labor Day, and Two-Face on Halloween.

I think that Harvey tried to kill Alberto but failed to do so

[Carmine Falcone]

Batman and the Monster Men (which will be released in TPB later this month) is also quite fantastic, IMO.

I can't wait to read it... :(

[Two-Face]

I really believe you should get The Man Who Laughs.


Yeah if you can find it! whicch was hard to find anywhere til I looked at ebay.

[GNR]

This is coming from another Bat noob:

Dark Knight Returns
Year One
TLH
DV
Kingdom Come(Bats plays a big part)

[Kool-Aid]

Yeah if you can find it! whicch was hard to find anywhere til I looked at ebay.


Really? Its hard to find? I bought it a few months back and it was at the first coimc shop I looked for it.

[GNR]

I'm really in no hurry to read Hush.I don't know why.

[Kool-Aid]

Are you planning on getting The Man Who Laughs or The Killing Joke?

[Batty Belfry]

I think my next purchase is gonna be the Hush 3vol. set.

[hippie_hunter]

I think my next purchase is gonna be the Hush 3vol. set.

Hush is two volumes :o

And get a cooler story than that.

[ashtonu]

I've been wanting THE MAN WHO LAUGHS for ages, but I've just been blown away by how expensive and hard to find it is.

I love THE KILLING JOKE, though, and thought the ending was brilliant, exploring, like the whoe of ARKHAM ASYLUM did, the possibility of Batman being as mad as the people be brings in... Pure brilliance!

[Batty Belfry]

Hush is two volumes :o

And get a cooler story than that.

Absolute Batman: Hush, however long it is, I've only seen it online.

I like Jeph Loeb's writing.

[hippie_hunter]

Absolute Batman: Hush, however long it is, I've only seen it online.

I like Jeph Loeb's writing.

Loeb pre-Supergirl From Krypton kicks ass, but Hush, while good is still not his best work compared to his other Batman works and Marvel Color books. And it is definetly not worth the Absolute treatment.

[Anita18]

I read TKJ in about 10 minutes standing in the comic book store, LOL. Batman is a bit meh in that one, but I finally understood why Bats and Joker were two sides of the same coin. I mean, it had been explained to me, but I truly came to a better understanding of it after I had read it. That's the reason why they laugh together at Joker's joke at the end - they are pretty much one and the same, except that one choose to fight his mental instabilities and stay true to his morality, while the other doesn't give a *****.

I finished TLH and thought it was awesome, aside from the random supervillain cameos. Joker was rather weak in that one, I thought. But the Two-Face plot was just tremendous. I'm reading Dark Victory now, and I'm liking it too. DV is bit more tongue-in-cheek than TLH, I think, and has its lighter moments as well as its dark ones. I really enjoy Sale's use of light and shadows, even if I think that he takes a lot of liberty with human anatomy, LOL.

DKR was the very first superhero comic I read, and I LOVED it. Even though it isn't in continuity, I loved the idea of an eager non-annoying female Robin, and a Batman who returns 10 years after retirement cause Bruce Wayne can't stand not being the vigilante. I also loved the controversy within the book regarding him coming back. Batman in context of society. Good stuff.

I'm thinking of getting Arkham Asylum after I finish DV and a few other graphic novels I got my paws on. I took a look at it in the store, and it looked...quite interesting. Dave McKean is quite the trippy fellow, LOL.

[Spidey-Bat]

3.Finally, what are some other good graphic novels to buy? I heard The Killing Joke was good from the Dark Knight forums, and Hush seems to have mixed reviews her from what I've read.

HUSH sucked ass. The Killing Joke is good, but The Man Who Laughs is better. DKR is great. Year One is a staple for your collection even though it's more about Gordon than Batman.

[GNR]

Was Monster Men any good?

I've currently read Year One,DKR,LH and DV.

I'm thinking about getting Trinity as well.

Any other good ones I should check out?

[CConn]

Monster Men was bloody fantastic, IMO. The plot may not deal with any "major" event in Batman's life, but the characterizations are fantastic, the art's equally as good, and the story, I thought, was really fun to read.

Other recommendations? Hmm. Arkham Asylum. Next to DKR and TLH, it's the best Batman book ever, in my mind.

[Mee]

I thought Monster Men was great as well. I'd say get Hush, and if you like the Joker, the Killing Joke.

[GNR]

Hush just seems,I don't know.I'm in no hurry to get it or read it really.

Anyone read Trinity by Wagner?

[Mister J]

Hush just seems,I don't know.I'm in no hurry to get it or read it really.
You shouldn't be. :o

Anyone read Trinity by Wagner?
Yeah. It's a decent story featuring some good interaction between the Trinity as they first interact as a unit. It's more about the characterization of the characters, rather than the story. I liked it.

[GNR]

You shouldn't be. :o


Yeah. It's a decent story featuring some good interaction between the Trinity as they first interact as a unit. It's more about the characterization of the characters, rather than the story. I liked it.

Yea,I figured.I'm still excited to read LH and DV however.It's gonna be sweet.

Once I finish those 2 up,I'm gonna go easy on the Bat trades.I already have Year 1,Dark Knight Returns,Long Halloween and Dark Victory.I might try out Monster Men next week though.

[trustyside-kick]

Ever since I started following Batman Begins, back in, August 03', I started to lurk on the boards and see some of the discussions that bat-fans were having about the film. As I followed production, and started to pick up and learn some of the Batman Mythos, I felt a little in the dark, "comic book-wise." After finally building up the nerve to buy, The Long Halloween, Dark Victory, and Haunted Knight, I came home and read TLH from cover to cover in about an hour, and couldn't believe how great of a read it was. I put the books away, and then forgot about them. After the press release of The Dark Knight I got pumped and amped and just reread TLH.

My questions are:
1.Who's the real Holiday?, and a little explanation would be awesome!
2.What the order of the books I bought? Is it TLH, then Haunted Knight, then Dark Victory?
3.Finally, what are some other good graphic novels to buy? I heard The Killing Joke was good from the Dark Knight forums, and Hush seems to have mixed reviews her from what I've read.

In advance, theank you for all your help!:up: :)

1. There were 3 people who played the villain from time to time during those 13 months; Gilda, Harvey, and Alberto. However, it seems Gilda started the whole Holiday thing because she wanted to get rid of the mob so Harvey could spend more time with her to have a family and stuff.

2. The Haunted Knight is out of continuity I believe or just a stand alone...so there is not really a spot that it fits in I believe out of the 3. However, TLH came before DV since DV is the sequel. If I was wrong about HK stuff then someone please correct me.

3. There are a lot of Graphic Novels but you already have 3 extremely great ones. Here are some others:

- Year One
- Hush
- The Man Who Laughs
- The Killing Joke
- Robin: Year One
- Batgirl: Year One

There are a lot more but I was extremely impressed with those. I left out some I really liked like Under the Hood and As the Crow Flies but that is because a) you are new like you said and b) there are more issues to add to those besides just the ones included in the Graphic Novel. There is a thread called top 25 Graphic Novels or something; you should check that out. :up:

[trustyside-kick]

Really? Its hard to find? I bought it a few months back and it was at the first coimc shop I looked for it.

Then you got very lucky my friend. I have my own copy thanks to mr.eBay.

HUSH sucked ass. The Killing Joke is good, but The Man Who Laughs is better. DKR is great. Year One is a staple for your collection even though it's more about Gordon than Batman.

Hush did not suck ass. I know you hate Jim Lee but still. I would really like to know what people hated about it so much. I have heard a few things: Hush's identity being too obvious (I don't agree with), some feeling Loeb's writing was lacking (I don't agree with), saying how he just threw out characters for no reason (hello? there were reasons for each person's appearance). I forget the rest...but all the reasons I heard were just bull**** entering my ears.

Yea I liked TKJ more than TMHL; it echoed Joker's first appearance ever from the 1930's comic.

I feel the same way about YO...it was good but more of a Gordon story.

I feel DKR is the most overrated one of all...I was not impressed with it. I have noticed that a lot of people read that first before some other graphic novels...I think it should be the other way around.