Ghost Rider (Vol 2) Discussion / Dan Ketch

[Dan Ketch]

Anyone? It makes me mad that he's always over looked, The Blaze GR was cool but Dan Ketch was the reason I loved the character. John Blaze hasnt been GR in like 20 years and still Dan Ketch gets no respect. Anyone have any thoughts...?

[FlameHead]

Just because the movie is focusing on Blaze doesn't mean the world thinks Dan doesn't exist. In fact, MSJ himself said that he preferred the DK storylines over the Blaze ones and I think that's the way most people feel.

When they make a comic run again, as much as I'd love to see him, we'll likely not see Dan.

[Dan Ketch]

When they make a comic run again, as much as I'd love to see him, we'll likely not see Dan.

And that's why the new series will be gay, unless it's in the Ultimate universe...

[FlameHead]

A gay Ghost Rider would be interesting. All the homosexual fans would probably find it 'hot'. Ha.

[The Lizard]

I have a Dan Ketch GR question.

I read the 1990's Ghost Rider series and collected all his appearances until around the time after the Midnight Sons/Spirts of Vengeance storylines came out, then I lost interest in the comic. I chalk up my loss of interest to pretty much the same thing that happend to the Venom character in the early-to-mid 90's. The "dark and gritty" characters were cool at first, but then Marvel over-used them to sell various titles then pretty much wimpified them in an attempt to make them more "heroic". Venom becoming a "Lethal Protector" and Ghost Rider claiming that he never killed mortal beings (despite all his violent actions against the ninjas at the beginning of the 90's GR series) are examples of this.

Anyway, I remember that Ketch's Ghost Rider was revealed to NOT be the demon Zarathos like Blaze's GR was. So-- was it ever revealed exactly where Ketch's GR came from or who he really was?

[FlameHead]

Oh yes... and it's a pretty long story. To get a great understanding of it, check out the Vengeance Unbound website (http://www.vengeanceunbound.com/incarnations.html). It has a very detailed write up of Ghost Rider's history.

A few highlights of what you're going to read; Dan is Blaze's brother, Noble Kale is the demon that possesses Blade and they are both part of a long legacy of the occult.

Check it out.

[The Lizard]

Oh yes... and it's a pretty long story.

Man, you weren't kidding -- that was pretty long and drawn out. Thanks for the link.

What that complicated mesh of origin stories tells me is that the GR movie is going to be able to make up any sort of origin it wants for GR and get away with it.

[FlameHead]

Well, they're going with the Blaze origin now... with a few subtle changes.

[JewishHobbit]

I never read anything with Blaze in it as Ghost Rider but I loved Ketch. I've read about 20 issues of the 90's series (around 15 or so through 30 something) and I loved him.

[FlameHead]

Yeah, he was pretty sweet in those days. Tex did a great job with the art and the stories were quite faboo. It wasn't until after issue 50 that the storylines starting dropping in quality actually... though I'm not sure about the last few issues. There are about 20 more of the 95 (incl 2 annuals) issues that I need. Therefor, I haven't read anything past issue 58. I want to read them in order and what I have from 58-93 is sporatic. I have a complete run to there though.

Anyway, that was pretty useless information for you, I know. Ghost Rider/Dan Ketch kicks ass!

[PaleRider]

I like both versions but I have to say I like Blaze more. I have a question for you, I read that Keatch is dead? That in the last issue (91?) he sacrificed himself for the demon or something. Is that true or what?

[FlameHead]

93 was the last issue, though there is an unpublished 94 on the internet, giving conclusion to the entire story. Damn them for not publishing it. Damn them to hell... which coincedently is shown, with it's ruler being Ghost Rider. Awesome.

Dan did die, yes...

Noble went through with his promise to marry Pao Fu and Black Rose, and afterwards freed them from Blackheart's control. It was at this time that Black Rose was revealed to actually be Roxanne Simpson. Dan and Naomi found Noble, now possessing the truth about his origins. At the cost of his life, Dan Ketch returned Noble's missing memories that revealed to him his true nature...that of the angel of death, so christened by Uriel himself. Noble then killed Blackheart and became ruler of Hell. [Ghost Rider vol. 2 # 93]

Taken from the Vengeance Unbound website (http://www.vengeanceunbound.com/index.html)

It does go on to say this though...

Although Noble Kale only made one appearance as the high lord of Hell, that didn't mean his presence would fade away. In New York City, a mysterious fire blazes from a building, one the local firefighters are unable to put out. From this fire, the Ghost Rider emerges, his hellfire out of control. Spider-Man arrives and attempts to calm the Rider down, but ends up in a lengthy fight with the spirit. During the battle, he mentions being lied to by Mephisto and Blackheart. Eventually, Spider-Man discovers a bomb planted by terrorists, one that's set to explode. The Ghost Rider wants to contain the explosion himself, but realizes that he has yet to regain his full power. Suddenly, Dan Ketch, mysteriously alive once again, appears from the crowd and confronts the demon. He asks the Rider if he remembers anything about their years spent together, and about Noble Kale's status as ruler of Hell. The demon replies that he was never Noble Kale, and that he doesn't know what is true and what were lies from Mephisto. Realizing that the innocent people on the street need to be saved from the bomb, Dan agrees to merge with the Ghost Rider once again, bringing them back to their full strength. The Ghost Rider contains the explosion, and then rides off into the night. [Peter Parker: Spider-Man # 93]

I can't wait to find that issue...

[NewDirection]

I read the original series, and think all the reimagining since---including reimagining Johnny Blaze---Is just a load of smoking brimstone briquettes. I think this character has been coasting on the cool of the original dude and has done virtually nada to deserve to stay afloat since. OK, having said that, I will admit that the early Danny Ketch stuff is now significant as a time capsule from the grunge years.

Let me explain why. Johnny Blaze was a great character. He was a carnival stuntman...That's sufficient material for a comic hero without GR at all. And in fact GR was a curse to him. One he got because of love that had gone wrong. Blaze is a classic character. Ketch is just another dishwasher type where the hero aspect that enters his life is the only thing that makes it interesting. Yeah it's good to have such characters (Spider-Man comes to mind) but they shouldn't all be that way.

[KnightsPast]

I've gotta say...I like Dan Ketch more, and here's why: the audience can relate to him more. He is just a regular kid, and in the beggining issues (like, first 7) he is a little boring, I agree. But he starts to grow and that is usually interesting for readers. He kept saying he wasn't a detective, but it was Dan who found out about Deathwatch and Snowblind. He bought a helmet (smart move) and started listening to police broadcasts. He used his messenger service to get to the secretary Renee and he wasn't a tough guy at all. In fact, it was kinda cool to see Blaze as a brotherly or paternal figure to Dan, and tought him how to hold his own in a fight or on his bike.

That said, I can completely understand those who like Blaze better: I almost always like the originals rather than remakes. I think the reason so many people like Dan Ketch, like myself, is that most of us were around for Danny but not for Blaze back in the day. So to us, he is original. But the reason Danny got over looked is because he is not the first, and because Blaze is a more fantasical character on his own. Dan is a regular dude.

[NewDirection]

This is an interesting question. The thing about Blaze (and I didn't read all the original series, just towards the last thirty ishs or so)... Is that he had it both ways. Yes it was a kid's dream to be a carnival stuntman; not just any stuntman but an Evel Knevel rider. However he was portrayed as a scared, lonely kid in this strange "carnie" existence. I'd say the Steve Martin "The Jerk" character of the period helped define carnival stuntman as a cool looking but somewhat thankless existence. Actually the main dude on the HBO TV series "Canivale" has a little of the same tragic folksy aspect. Plus, when you factor in the loss of his girl and subsequent pact with the devil, and the darkly tragic tone overall (found in many Marvel comics of the era from Rom to Nightstalkers), the character seems not overblown but a dustmote in a tempest.

[FlameHead]

Actually, it wasn't his ladyfriend that he lost in the comics... it was his ol' daddy-o, in every sense of the word, except biologicaly. They're making it Roxanne in the movie though... from what I can tell.

I have more to add to this thread later. I'm at work right now.

[NewDirection]

Actually, it wasn't his ladyfriend that he lost in the comics... it was his ol' daddy-o, in every sense of the word, except biologicaly.
I didn't say she died (although she did on one or two occasions). She left the series (long before I jumped in, back in Vol 1 #9 according to this: http://www.worldfamouscomics.com/tony/back20011214.shtml. He "lost" her in that forever-pining-for-his-ex early-twenties sense. Not as easy as her being dead on the old male ego.

[FlameHead]

Thanks for that link; was a great find and wonderful read...

[Shawkur]

I always found the Ketch character pretty bland, even just the name itself.

[FlameHead]

...Well, what's in a name?

Either way, to each their own. The battle between who is better is one that will go of forever.

[Fettstyl]

Anyone? It makes me mad that he's always over looked, The Blaze GR was cool but Dan Ketch was the reason I loved the character. John Blaze hasnt been GR in like 20 years and still Dan Ketch gets no respect. Anyone have any thoughts...?

Actually I have a few thoughts. I don't think GRKetch deserves any respect. GRBlaze was infinately better for a thousand reasons. I'm hoping that with the GRB movie and the GRB mini coming out that that is an indication that GRK will be forgotten and ignored. The art in the first half of GRK was great, but that was about the only thing redeeming about GRK. Now reasons I say what I've said:

1-GRK is not a demon....stupid,nuff said.

2-GRK can be defeated by Blazes hellfire shotgun, the same hellfire that GRK is made of.......dumb dumb idea, one of many dumb ideas by the GRK writers. The writers were fools for making a completely different character that just happens to look exactly like GRB.....stupid!!

3-GRK wouldn't kill.

4-GRK's penance stare can't be projected like GRB, thus someone at a distance or someone like snowblind can escape penance.

5-GRB makes sense!! Why does the GRB look like he does? He's a demon. Most importantly, Why does GRB ride a bike? Because GRB can create stuff from his hellfire(unlike GRK) and chooses a bike because his host is a stunt rider who has some control over the demon and chooses a bike which GR retains Blazes riding abilities. Makes perfect sense. right. Why does GRK ride a bike??? Why was it a bike that was found in the junkyard???? No good reason at all, only a blatant attempt to make a cool looking comic. Which of course did look cool, I have every issue, even the crappy last ones, but that does not change the fact that GRK is very shallow compared to GRB.

6-GRB is a badass with a badass attitude, he enjoys his mission, even laughs as he is frying souls. In fact GRB fried souls left and right. GRK would go issue after issue without frying a single soul. lame.

7-GRB was created with Zarathos, a demon once rivaling mephisto. infinately more powerful that GRK. GRK was created by some crazy concoction(sp) of the blood and Noble Kale and whatever else. I'm still trying to make sense of it all.

8-There was a reason GRB could do all kinds of cool motorcycle stunts, Blaze was a world renouned stunt rider!! Why can GRK do cool motorcycle stunts?......just because.

9-GRB was mostly like a nomad, did lots of stuff in the desert, open road and such. GRK was mostly in the city, which gave GRK a decidedly less dark, mysterious and gritty feel to it.

10-The GRK writers played a game with us for years as to what GRK's true identity was, just to make up some crap to make him different from the original and make GRK their own. They didn't make GR better, they made him worse, much worse, lame and weaker. Fortunately the powers that be seem to understand that now, finally.

Now I know I stepped on a few toes, but the truth is simply that and had to be told. I understand being drawn to the first incarnation one was subjected to, I really do. Then when you go to the Blaze issues and try to get into it, it might be hard to get past the less exciting art of the 70's and 80's. All that is understood. However, when looked at objectively, the fact is that Blaze was a deeper, more realistic, more powerful, more interesting character that simply made sense (unlike GRK).

[Riding Ghost]

Well, my toes feel ok, I guess since i agree with you. Kinda hard to argue with what you said. Just 1 thing though, I wouldn't say the Ketch series doesn't deserve ANY respect. The 1st 40 or so issues were fairly entertaining. Still your right, it doesn't compare to Blazes GR.

[FlameHead]

Let's face it, whichever chacter you've fell for first will pretty much state how you feel. Those of us who started after the Blaze days generally like Dan's Ghost Rider. Those who started from the begininng, rather Blaze's version. It's like that for most anything; Michael Keaton as Batman for example. The only people that don't think he's the best Batman are those who love Adam West.

Before I reply to Fettstyls' post, I have to point out that I'm not starting an argument of any sort here. While everything you say is definatly valid, you have to realize that it's still your opinion. What I'm about to do is express my opinion on the Dan Ketch character, in regards to what you've said... and Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of Blase and his Ghost Riding experiences as well. I just fell for Dan first and believe he deserves respect.

1-GRK is not a demon....stupid,nuff said.

If you think about it, Blaze's Ghost Rider wasn't even a real Ghost Rider. He was mearly a demon caught in the body of a man who was destined to be a Ghost Rider. The fact that he was just a demon doing demon things gives him no sense of a hero. What I liked about Dan's Ghost Rider is that he was a hero, be it anti or not. He did things with honor.

I understand that this is not everyone's cup of tea though. Most people enjoyed Ghost Rider's hard ass nature and total disregard for human life. While this is fantasticly cool, it just doesn't have that honor in a hero that I love about Ghost Rider II.

2-GRK can be defeated by Blazes hellfire shotgun, the same hellfire that GRK is made of.......dumb dumb idea, one of many dumb ideas by the GRK writers. The writers were fools for making a completely different character that just happens to look exactly like GRB.....stupid!!

Perhaps the writers were just building on the 'Fight Fire with Fire' moto. I can understand that most people enjoy Ghost Rider's invincability, it's kinda nice to give him a weakness. I mean, how much story would have been lost in the SuperMan universe if Kryptonite was never invented?

As for looking like Ghost Rider Blaze, I like the sense of history of the Ghost Rider legacy. I love to picture Ghost Rider's riding on horses back in medival times ridding the earth of those who should not dwell there. Why shouldn't they look alike? It's an entity, a spirit, that lives forever... no matter the host it resides in.

3-GRK wouldn't kill.

The world is riddled with murder, death, kills. Why would I want to excape into a comic book where the exact same thing happens?

The fact that Ghost Rider would not kill is what appealed to me most... and if you remmember, this is a decision that Noble made as the story progressed. He decided that death was not the way to go. That living the rest of their lives feeling the pain they've inflicted on others, 10 fold, was a far better way to punish. Death is quick. Death is only once. Endless pain is forever.

4-GRK's penance stare can't be projected like GRB, thus someone at a distance or someone like snowblind can escape penance.

This is probably my most favorite thing about Ghost Rider II. His penance stare is one of the best things ever created. Besides the fact that I'm not a fan of energy blasts (or whatever) flying from characters hands, this power inflicts so much fear... just in it's action. He actually had to go face to face with the baddie and force them the stare into the eyes of this flaming headed skull... only inches away. The fact that Ghost Rider had to beat the enemy senseless at times before that would happen was fantastic. I mean, Ghost Rider Blaze could have driven around all night on his bike, never getting off, just frying people. Dan's Ghost Rider had to work for the Vengeance on others. This proved for some pretty brutal beatings, draggings and various other pre Pennance stare pain.

Snowblind could not get the Pennance stare, you are correct. That wasn't because of him not being able to do it at a distance though. This was because he was blind and unable to look into Ghost Rider's eyes. He did get a savage beating though. Ghost Rider said something to the effect of not being able to feel eternal emotional pain for the rest of life will not prevent him from feeling any pain at all. Now, that was cool. (I'll be posting some pics in the Official Ghost Rider thread on this in the coming days)

5-GRB makes sense!! Why does the GRB look like he does? He's a demon. Most importantly, Why does GRB ride a bike? Because GRB can create stuff from his hellfire(unlike GRK) and chooses a bike because his host is a stunt rider who has some control over the demon and chooses a bike which GR retains Blazes riding abilities. Makes perfect sense. right. Why does GRK ride a bike??? Why was it a bike that was found in the junkyard???? No good reason at all, only a blatant attempt to make a cool looking comic. Which of course did look cool, I have every issue, even the crappy last ones, but that does not change the fact that GRK is very shallow compared to GRB.

I pretty sure the bike was in the yard because it was destined for Barbara to become Ghost Rider that night. The powers that be made sure she would get the bike. In fact, didn't she know the Bike was supposed to be there.

What made Dan's bike riding abilities make sense was the fact they made the bike a part of Ghost Rider and his abilities. The bike was connected to Ghost Rider, and in fact moved seemingly at it's own will. If Dan was 'destined' to be Ghost Rider, he had to keep that bike close. As you probably remember, he turned into the vengeance seeking demon by touching the medallioned gas cap. Without that, he'd be always Dan.

Plus, it's probably part of the Ghost Rider history that all those who are destined to be the hero have some sort of internal ability to ride already. It is a family tree of Ghost Rider history and we all know how abilities are passed generation by generation.

6-GRB is a badass with a badass attitude, he enjoys his mission, even laughs as he is frying souls. In fact GRB fried souls left and right. GRK would go issue after issue without frying a single soul. lame.

The fact that they took multiple issues to develop a story on a single character before frying their sould is a bad thing? Perhaps to you.

7-GRB was created with Zarathos, a demon once rivaling mephisto. infinately more powerful that GRK. GRK was created by some crazy concoction(sp) of the blood and Noble Kale and whatever else. I'm still trying to make sense of it all.

While I agree that the history is pretty confusing, you have to admit that the detail that went into it all was pretty impressive. The fact that they built a universal history for the character, long after the original one was introduced is big feat. It's not easy to reintroduce a character and make it fit in the same universe as the original. Most revamps just reintroduce the same character... with a new edge. Isn't it good that they kept Blaze's history going and made it part of the 2nd Ghost Rider's life?

Zarathos more powere for Ghost Rider? I think not. If that were true, he would still be in Blaze's body (being so powerful that Blaze would not have been able to rid himself of him) and would have won the battle waged on earth with the Demon mother Lilith. Yes, Ghost Rider had a bunch of friends to help, he still was instrumental in defeating the demon.

Also, this goes along with point number one. Zarathos is not a true Ghost Rider.

8-There was a reason GRB could do all kinds of cool motorcycle stunts, Blaze was a world renouned stunt rider!! Why can GRK do cool motorcycle stunts?......just because.

I can't remember Dan ever doing any cool stunts. Ghost Rider could, yes... but that's because he's Ghost Rider and he has a mystical Hellcycle.

Remember, Dan and Ghost Rider (Noble Kale) are not the same being. The same goes for Blaze and Zarathos. Blaze just happen to work in a Stunt show as a bike boy.

9-GRB was mostly like a nomad, did lots of stuff in the desert, open road and such. GRK was mostly in the city, which gave GRK a decidedly less dark, mysterious and gritty feel to it.

With that logic, one would think that you'd view Punisher as a non dark, mysterious and gritty character too... which we all know is false.

10-The GRK writers played a game with us for years as to what GRK's true identity was, just to make up some crap to make him different from the original and make GRK their own. They didn't make GR better, they made him worse, much worse, lame and weaker. Fortunately the powers that be seem to understand that now, finally.

In taking the years to develope the second Ghost Rider, they may have pissed a few people off. I tend to look at it differently because I read the letters pages in each and every one of the comics. What I seen was them listening to the suggestions most readers were making. They probably had a general idea what they were planning on doing but they wanted to see how people reacted to the character first. Plus, it's not easy developing a history from the present to the past... espcially when one character has already been developed. I give kudos to those many writers for doing the job they did.

I personally love the history that was developed with this character. I love the fact that Ghost Rider was turned from a demon that possess a man because of the ruler of hell into a purposeful being brought to this earth to do some good... and has been brought to earth forever (one could concieve). It gave the character a sense of purpose and let him exist forever. Without that history, we would have never seen the Ghost Rider of the 31 century or Ghost Rider 2099. We wouldn't have seen it because Ghost Rider would have just been another human possessing demon... and nothing more.

Phew. And that's the reason why it's taken me so long to do this post; I knew it would be along one.

[Fettstyl]

What took you so long? http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif


Let's face it, whichever chacter you've fell for first will pretty much state how you feel. Those of us who started after the Blaze days generally like Dan's Ghost Rider. Those who started from the begininng, rather Blaze's version. It's like that for most anything; Michael Keaton as Batman for example. The only people that don't think he's the best Batman are those who love Adam West.
Thats why I said what I said at the end about understanding liking the one you were first subjected too. I'm glad you understand too.


Before I reply to Fettstyls' post, I have to point out that I'm not starting an argument of any sort here. While everything you say is definatly valid, you have to realize that it's still your opinion. What I'm about to do is express my opinion on the Dan Ketch character, in regards to what you've said... and Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of Blase and his Ghost Riding experiences as well. I just fell for Dan first and believe he deserves respect.
Understood, and I appreciate the mature and thoughtful approach you have taken. Perhaps i shouldn't have said KGR deserved no respect, its just that sometimes it can be frustrating watching my fav character get ruined. I can't help but feel that, if a character is gonna be that different from the original, they should call it something else.

1-GRK is not a demon....stupid,nuff said.

If you think about it, Blaze's Ghost Rider wasn't even a real Ghost Rider. He was mearly a demon caught in the body of a man who was destined to be a Ghost Rider. The fact that he was just a demon doing demon things gives him no sense of a hero. What I liked about Dan's Ghost Rider is that he was a hero, be it anti or not. He did things with honor.

I'm not sure what you mean by real GR?? And yes he only did any good because of Blazes influence, Blaze was the hero/Zarathos was the power. Look at the GR, just look at him, he is evil, how could somthing that looked like that be good?-Blaze story explained that. Ketchs GR-not a demon AND good...a hero if you will. crazy IMHO

I understand that this is not everyone's cup of tea though. Most people enjoyed Ghost Rider's hard ass nature and total disregard for human life. While this is fantasticly cool, it just doesn't have that honor in a hero that I love about Ghost Rider II.
Yes, you got it. Blaze has the honor, or ketch even for that matter, not the GR himself. hmmmm, let me explain it another way, have you ever heard the term "willing suspension of belief" ? What it means is when reading a comic or watching a movie, we are willing to accept that comic characters can do things that are not necessarily likely, or even possible, in real life. We accept that the action hero can run across an open area unscathed as bullets whiz by him in every direction, we accept that he can run miles on end without getting exhuasted, etc. We accept these things because we are aware that comics operate on a heightened sense of reality, but occasionally a comic will press its prerogative to embellish to the point where the readers collectively think, "no way!" as if someone throws the common sense switch in our brains and the comic loses us at that point. When you try to say that something like the GR is not a demon and that something like the GR is inherently good, It doesn't add up.

2-GRK can be defeated by Blazes hellfire shotgun, the same hellfire that GRK is made of.......dumb dumb idea, one of many dumb ideas by the GRK writers. The writers were fools for making a completely different character that just happens to look exactly like GRB.....stupid!!

Perhaps the writers were just building on the 'Fight Fire with Fire' moto. I can understand that most people enjoy Ghost Rider's invincability, it's kinda nice to give him a weakness. I mean, how much story would have been lost in the SuperMan universe if Kryptonite was never invented?

As for looking like Ghost Rider Blaze, I like the sense of history of the Ghost Rider legacy. I love to picture Ghost Rider's riding on horses back in medival times ridding the earth of those who should not dwell there. Why shouldn't they look alike? It's an entity, a spirit, that lives forever... no matter the host it resides in.
-"Fight fire with fire"......if that is what they were thinking, everything I called them is even more true.
-GRBlaze did just fine being invincable thank you very much http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/ghostrider.gif no prob with stories.
-as for the look alike thing, I'm sorry but they look exactly alike.......yet they are completely different?!?........have you ever heard of "willing suspension of belief"? wait, I think I covered that.

3-GRK wouldn't kill.

The world is riddled with murder, death, kills. Why would I want to excape into a comic book where the exact same thing happens?
Gimme a break. sheeesh

The fact that Ghost Rider would not kill is what appealed to me most... and if you remmember, this is a decision that Noble made as the story progressed. He decided that death was not the way to go. That living the rest of their lives feeling the pain they've inflicted on others, 10 fold, was a far better way to punish. Death is quick. Death is only once. Endless pain is forever..
Funny, i don't actually remember GR Blaze killing anyone, maybe he did, I just don't remember. He normally just fried their soul abd made them suffer 'till they did die, as you said about GRK. I think the main thing was that GRK made such a big deal about not killing. Besides I always hated the way spiderman lets people go so THEY can kill again....crazy man.


4-GRK's penance stare can't be projected like GRB, thus someone at a distance or someone like snowblind can escape penance.

This is probably my most favorite thing about Ghost Rider II. His penance stare is one of the best things ever created. Besides the fact that I'm not a fan of energy blasts (or whatever) flying from characters hands, this power inflicts so much fear... just in it's action. He actually had to go face to face with the baddie and force them the stare into the eyes of this flaming headed skull... only inches away. The fact that Ghost Rider had to beat the enemy senseless at times before that would happen was fantastic. I mean, Ghost Rider Blaze could have driven around all night on his bike, never getting off, just frying people. Dan's Ghost Rider had to work for the Vengeance on others. This proved for some pretty brutal beatings, draggings and various other pre Pennance stare pain...
Thats my point GRK HAS TO beat them down GRB had a choice, due to his superior power http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Snowblind could not get the Pennance stare, you are correct. That wasn't because of him not being able to do it at a distance though. This was because he was blind and unable to look into Ghost Rider's eyes. He did get a savage beating though. Ghost Rider said something to the effect of not being able to feel eternal emotional pain for the rest of life will not prevent him from feeling any pain at all. Now, that was cool. (I'll be posting some pics in the Official Ghost Rider thread on this in the coming days)...
Right, my point. GRB could have walked right up to snowblind and fried his soul. And lets face it having your soul burnt is worse than an ass beating.

5-GRB makes sense!! Why does the GRB look like he does? He's a demon. Most importantly, Why does GRB ride a bike? Because GRB can create stuff from his hellfire(unlike GRK) and chooses a bike because his host is a stunt rider who has some control over the demon and chooses a bike which GR retains Blazes riding abilities. Makes perfect sense. right. Why does GRK ride a bike??? Why was it a bike that was found in the junkyard???? No good reason at all, only a blatant attempt to make a cool looking comic. Which of course did look cool, I have every issue, even the crappy last ones, but that does not change the fact that GRK is very shallow compared to GRB.

I pretty sure the bike was in the yard because it was destined for Barbara to become Ghost Rider that night. The powers that be made sure she would get the bike. In fact, didn't she know the Bike was supposed to be there.

What made Dan's bike riding abilities make sense was the fact they made the bike a part of Ghost Rider and his abilities. The bike was connected to Ghost Rider, and in fact moved seemingly at it's own will. If Dan was 'destined' to be Ghost Rider, he had to keep that bike close. As you probably remember, he turned into the vengeance seeking demon by touching the medallioned gas cap. Without that, he'd be always Dan.

Plus, it's probably part of the Ghost Rider history that all those who are destined to be the hero have some sort of internal ability to ride already. It is a family tree of Ghost Rider history and we all know how abilities are passed generation by generation.

Why?why? and why?

6-GRB is a badass with a badass attitude, he enjoys his mission, even laughs as he is frying souls. In fact GRB fried souls left and right. GRK would go issue after issue without frying a single soul. lame.

The fact that they took multiple issues to develop a story on a single character before frying their sould is a bad thing? Perhaps to you.
It was lame and weak. IMHO

7-GRB was created with Zarathos, a demon once rivaling mephisto. infinately more powerful that GRK. GRK was created by some crazy concoction(sp) of the blood and Noble Kale and whatever else. I'm still trying to make sense of it all.

While I agree that the history is pretty confusing, you have to admit that the detail that went into it all was pretty impressive. The fact that they built a universal history for the character, long after the original one was introduced is big feat. It's not easy to reintroduce a character and make it fit in the same universe as the original. Most revamps just reintroduce the same character... with a new edge. Isn't it good that they kept Blaze's history going and made it part of the 2nd Ghost Rider's life?

Zarathos more powere for Ghost Rider? I think not. If that were true, he would still be in Blaze's body (being so powerful that Blaze would not have been able to rid himself of him) and would have won the battle waged on earth with the Demon mother Lilith. Yes, Ghost Rider had a bunch of friends to help, he still was instrumental in defeating the demon.

Also, this goes along with point number one. Zarathos is not a true Ghost Rider..
-your first paragragh above is ridiculous
-if you think GR is more powerful than Zarathos, you really don't know what the H your talking about...It ain't even close.
-Zarathos GR was ridin first, I still don't know what you mean by that?

8-There was a reason GRB could do all kinds of cool motorcycle stunts, Blaze was a world renouned stunt rider!! Why can GRK do cool motorcycle stunts?......just because.

I can't remember Dan ever doing any cool stunts. Ghost Rider could, yes... but that's because he's Ghost Rider and he has a mystical Hellcycle.

Remember, Dan and Ghost Rider (Noble Kale) are not the same being. The same goes for Blaze and Zarathos. Blaze just happen to work in a Stunt show as a bike boy.

Bike boy at a stunt show??? you really are out of familiar territory when it comes to GRB aren't you?

9-GRB was mostly like a nomad, did lots of stuff in the desert, open road and such. GRK was mostly in the city, which gave GRK a decidedly less dark, mysterious and gritty feel to it.

With that logic, one would think that you'd view Punisher as a non dark, mysterious and gritty character too... which we all know is false..
I said "decidedly less" not non existant.

10-The GRK writers played a game with us for years as to what GRK's true identity was, just to make up some crap to make him different from the original and make GRK their own. They didn't make GR better, they made him worse, much worse, lame and weaker. Fortunately the powers that be seem to understand that now, finally.

In taking the years to develope the second Ghost Rider, they may have pissed a few people off. I tend to look at it differently because I read the letters pages in each and every one of the comics. What I seen was them listening to the suggestions most readers were making. They probably had a general idea what they were planning on doing but they wanted to see how people reacted to the character first. Plus, it's not easy developing a history from the present to the past... espcially when one character has already been developed. I give kudos to those many writers for doing the job they did.

I personally love the history that was developed with this character. I love the fact that Ghost Rider was turned from a demon that possess a man because of the ruler of hell into a purposeful being brought to this earth to do some good... and has been brought to earth forever (one could concieve). It gave the character a sense of purpose and let him exist forever. Without that history, we would have never seen the Ghost Rider of the 31 century or Ghost Rider 2099. We wouldn't have seen it because Ghost Rider would have just been another human possessing demon... and nothing more...
- ya know they easily could have just posted the letters that went along their line of thinking.
-But be that as it may, really, I disagree with everything you just said, I guess I'm one of those poor slobs who got pissed off. Everything I said in statement 10 was dead on and I stand by it.

Phew. And that's the reason why it's taken me so long to do this post; I knew it would be along one.
Word on that brother.
But I appreciate you taking the time. I enjoyed it. We both know the end result is that we will have to agree to disagree, but one thing both of us can agree on, is that GR future looks bright and the movie is gonna kick ass.

[FlameHead]

I'm not sure what you mean by real GR??....

In the history that was developed in developing the 2nd Ghost Rider we learnt that Zarathos was just a demon (which I understand is what YOU love about the character) who was bonded to Blaze. We also found out that the form that Zarthos was in during those days was not his true form. It was that of a Ghost Rider. A Ghost Rider being a demonic bounty hunter who lives for one thing; to give pain to those who cause it.

Zarathos is not a Ghost Rider, as defined in the later series. That's what I mean by he's not a real Ghost Rider.

as for the look alike thing, I'm sorry but they look exactly alike.......yet they are completely different?!?........have you ever heard of "willing suspension of belief"? wait, I think I covered that.

The look exactly alike because Zarathos was created to look exactly like a Ghost Rider, as I just mentioned.

...Besides I always hated the way spiderman lets people go so THEY can kill again....crazy man.

I'm all for catch and release... to the proper authorities. I don't think anyone deserves to unwillingly die by any other persons hands. That goes for real life and the comic world. The fact that Ghost Rider II would rather his victims live in eternal pain than die is pretty freakin cool... IMO, of course.

Zarathos GR was ridin first, I still don't know what you mean by that?

Yes, he was brought to our attention first but, in the history that was developed, he is not the first Ghost Rider. He is mearly a demon that materialized as a Ghost Rider.

Word on that brother.
But I appreciate you taking the time. I enjoyed it. We both know the end result is that we will have to agree to disagree, but one thing both of us can agree on, is that GR future looks bright and the movie is gonna kick ass.

You're right on one thing (and on many of the things you say to some people), we are definatly going to have to learn to agree to disagree. I knew that as soon as I started replyin' to your original post. This is a fight that will likely go on for as long as the Character is loved by people like us.

I like reading your opinions and I do understand the love of Blaze and the original character. What I can't understand is how someone who loves that character so much could hate the other equally as much. I can't understand how someone could not see some good in a character that is in essance the same as the original... but, I guess that's what you hate; the fact that they created another when they could have just kept the first.

To each their own.

[InVictus]

I love the second Ghost Rider, but i couldn't stop me to appreciate the first after seeing the purple enormous windsheld his bike had sometimes, and especially after reading the What if about Ghost Rider kidnapping the Pope. That was really great, in a b-movie/'60/absurd way. :)
The (lack of) fire on the skull was also very...hairy. :)

[Fettstyl]

In the history that was developed in developing the 2nd Ghost Rider we learnt that Zarathos was just a demon (which I understand is what YOU love about the character) who was bonded to Blaze. We also found out that the form that Zarthos was in during those days was not his true form. It was that of a Ghost Rider. A Ghost Rider being a demonic bounty hunter who lives for one thing; to give pain to those who cause it.

Zarathos is not a Ghost Rider, as defined in the later series. That's what I mean by he's not a real Ghost Rider.



The look exactly alike because Zarathos was created to look exactly like a Ghost Rider, as I just mentioned..

ahh yes, you are right, I remember that now. See I've read and re-read each issue of Vol1 many many times, however Vol.2 I only read once,except for a few select issues. I guess when I accused you of being in "unfamiliar territory" with GRB, the same could be said of me with GRK. I guess I didn't like what they came up with so I kinda forgot about it, but your right that is what they established as the deal.



I'm all for catch and release... to the proper authorities. I don't think anyone deserves to unwillingly die by any other persons hands. That goes for real life and the comic world. The fact that Ghost Rider II would rather his victims live in eternal pain than die is pretty freakin cool... IMO, of course..

yes, to the proper authorities, but a lot of times(talking about spiderman) he'll release them even though there are no authorities around just because he doesn't want to kill them. I think that is wrong because it endangers other innocence. I didn't like the big deal made about GRK not killing because, as in real life, sometimes, as unfortunate as it is, there is a time killing is the right choice. I agree making victims live in eternal pain is way cool, which of course, makes GRK better than SM right off the bat imo. And like I said, GRB to my memory rarely if ever actually killed anybody. His opponents ended up much like GRK's. It's just that it was open ended as to whether or not GRB would kill. I thought that more appropriate than a blanket statement of-I will never kill.period.

You're right on one thing (and on many of the things you say to some people), we are definatly going to have to learn to agree to disagree. I knew that as soon as I started replyin' to your original post. This is a fight that will likely go on for as long as the Character is loved by people like us.

I like reading your opinions and I do understand the love of Blaze and the original character. What I can't understand is how someone who loves that character so much could hate the other equally as much. I can't understand how someone could not see some good in a character that is in essance the same as the original... but, I guess that's what you hate; the fact that they created another when they could have just kept the first.

To each their own.

Yes you got me figured out pretty well. that is what I hate"the fact that they created another when they could have just kept the first." I could have dealt with that better if they didn't also do away with a lot of the things I really liked about GRB (hellfire blasts, creating bike of pure fire from his hand, maniacal laughing, and the attitude he always had-I suppose the kinda attitude you get from being a demongod at one point and being cocky about it--stuff like that) There were a lot of differences that I resented. But on the up side, I really enjoyed the art of about the first half of GRK. And GRK did have a few moments that were pretty cool. I particularly enjoyed Crossroads and the Spirit of Vengeance title.
Anyway, You seem like a pretty good guy Flamehead, either that or your just practicing a lot of restraint (probibly a little of both :) I appreciate the fact that you actually seem to pay attention to what I'm saying instead of just thinking about how you can shoot back at me, I try to do the same, you'll notice if I feel your right about something I don't have any problem saying your right. I've been through some real heated arguements,namely on the old marvel board(the one before JQ's) perhaps even with you if you posted there. I like this forum, people seem to be more respectful, which is good. I've been reading the posts on here for years,just recently started adding mine to the mix due to the movie finally happening for sure. I've enjoyed your posts as well, we agree to disagree and I hope I haven't pissed you off to much.

[FlameHead]

Posts on boards don't piss me off... a lot of things do, like my job, the war in Iraq, lack of jobs in Newfoundland and various other things but, not posts on boards. Besides, if you were being a real idiot and not listening to anything or arguing just for the sack of doing so... I would have just ignored

I'm not on the hype to start (or particapate in) arguments (heated or otherwise) with anyone. That's not my thing. I am here howerver, to discuss topics with people who are equally passionate about it. It may be the Libra in me but I like to keep a balance in things, especially in debates. There is no point in stressing your own points if you don't pay attention to the points that another person is making. You don't have to agree with them but, in order to have a successful conversation, you need to pay attention to them... as you've already mentioned.

Thanks for the kind words and I'd gladly talk about this character anytime with you. Be sure to come back often and keep this section alive. It's a fairly tight knit group of people, as you've observed and we all treat each other with respect. That's what makes it the best part of the hype. Welcome aboard!

[Fettstyl]

Posts on boards don't piss me off... a lot of things do, like my job, the war in Iraq,

Wow, we are even on opposite sides of the political spectrum. If we can get along, then perhaps there is a chance for world peace :)

I appreciate everything else you said. See you on the boards.

[FlameHead]

World Peace if far out of anyone's grasps. We've already destroyed our world and it's only a matter of time until it destroys us. As for our political platforms... I'm Canadian. Need I say more? (not that all Canadians and Americans differ on thier political views)

I equally appreciate your comments. Hopefully you'll hang around the Ghost Rider section in the future. I (we) welcome your comments.

[Dan Ketch]

Don't expect to ever read anything about Ketch again... Especially in this book. Ennis has stated that he never heard of Ketch before and does not know the 90's series.

That's just *****ing retarded. Why even give him the book if he doesnt know what's happened to any of the characters in the last 20 years? GR is one of my favorite characters of all time and to see his continuity just plain ignored on the verge of the characters biggest hype and popularity EVER pisses me off to no end. Anyone else share the same feelings?

[theescapeclause]

I agree 100%. The Ketch GR is the one I grew up reading, so it sucks that people are acting like it never happened. When I heard about The Hammerlane series, I was bummed it was Blaze. The same thing happened with the movie, and now the new comic. Blaze's story wasn't half as cool as Ketch's. The connection/struggle between Ketch and GR in the early issues was so awesome. It doesn't get much better than The Spirit of Vengeance. Granted, the whole mystic motorcycle thing was a little weird, but it fit the story. I hope if they do an ongiong series, they at least make some mention of the Ketch era.

[Uncanny Orb]

Anyone else share the same feelings?
Nope. Blaze is cool without Ghost Rider, Ketch just isn't.

[hellfiremaster]

Nope. Blaze is cool without Ghost Rider, Ketch just isn't.

This is true.. but the big problem I have with ANOTHER teenage kid, with his alter ego making his college life problematic is that he sounds to much like frickin' spider-dork. I liked the Ketch series but he really had no business being GR. I would rather him had been 13-15 year old, BMX racer that transformed to GR. At least there would be some connection to a bike. Remember Ketch only had the bike because he found it in the graveyard.

HFM :ghost:

[Crowley9]

Ketch got better as the series progressed. Especially after Blaze came along and showed him the ropes.

I can't remember ever seeing Ketch in college. Come to think of it, I have only the vaguest memory of Danny having some kind of job. Was he going somewhere with his life or just leeching off his mom?

Finally, isn't this just a limited series?

[Dan Ketch]

They can still bring Ketch onto the scene and it would still make sense with Blaze having to fulfill his obligation after selling his soul, the new series has alot of potential and could be great even for the Dan Ketch fans but I dont like the implications that they are completly ignoring everything that happened in the 90's. Let's hope they dont ignore it! :ghost:

[Uncanny Orb]

If it became an ongoing it may happen, but with just six issues it ain't happening. The Ketch Ghost Rider was great I totally agree with that, as for Ketch himself I always hoped something would happen to him so GR would get a new host.

[NDX]

Actually, I was hoping once Ketch died in issue 25 he stayed dead and Rider would have a story written where he would no longer be a possession but a seperate character. Or at least Ketch'es death lasting long than 8 issues.

I was very disappointed in reading that Ketch's variation of the character is going completely ignored. That was 8 years of many peoples' lives, 6 of my own.

I like the idea of restarting the series, but if you were going to do that, go all the way. Start from the beginning. Recreate the character completely. Rewrite the origin. Etc. Don't just go back and completely erase the 1990's. That means every story that involved Ghost Rider never existed. No Midnight Sons, no Midnight Massacre, no Seige of Darkness (that might be a good thing), no New Fantastic Four, no... you get the idea.

[Uncanny Orb]

Well the Blaze\Zarathos origin is clean as a whistle, it never changed like the Ketch\Ghost Riders did several times, besides it's Blaze in the movie and they aren't going to mess with that.

[Crowley9]

I like the idea of restarting the series, but if you were going to do that, go all the way. Start from the beginning. Recreate the character completely. Rewrite the origin. Etc. Don't just go back and completely erase the 1990's. That means every story that involved Ghost Rider never existed. No Midnight Sons, no Midnight Massacre, no Seige of Darkness (that might be a good thing), no New Fantastic Four, no... you get the idea.
That sounds like... Ultimate Ghost Rider!

[Uncanny Orb]

I could live with a whole new Ghost Rider and host.

[Riding Ghost]

That's just *****ing retarded.

I don't think its retarded at all. I like to think they realized their mistake(s) and deep sixed the whole ketch era :up:
I fear they really haven't done that and the whole dreaded thing will be brought up again at some future time, but I do hope we really never will have to relive that whole....thing.

[Riding Ghost]

Recreate the character completely. Rewrite the origin. Etc.

With all due respect
I think that is insane.
IMHO of course

[Riding Ghost]

I could live with a whole new Ghost Rider and host.

I couldn't (God, I hope they don't make me.....again)
A new host, yes I can live with that, but NOT a new GR (again :rolleyes: )

[FlameHead]

I hear that.

I can't believe it's taken me this long to reply to this thread as this is a issue that's close to my heart. I'm a huge fan of the Dan Ketch series, every piece of it. I don't agree with many peoples views on how the character was ruined and I even like the crossovers that came out during the final years of the series. I love it all!

No, they should never recreate the character and I'm very dissapointed with how Marvel treats the 90's version. Why do they hate it so much or better yet, why does Mackie hate it so much? I mean, he wrote like 90% of it and he's complaining that he doesn' like how 'his' character turned out? Sheesh.

To give up on Dan Ketch and the history that was developed would be a total shame and a direct insult to all of us who fell for the character for the first time during that period. It's bad enough that it's never talked about let alone forget it completly.

The only positive thing I've seen is that they did include him in the Marvel Knights 2005 encyclopedia... which pleased me to no end and did give me a little hope in Marvel

[Mr.MojoRisin]

I'm a huge GR fan. I've got pretty much every issue of both sereis. I have to admit, I do like Johnny Blaze better, but the Dan Ketch version was great as well. Besides, John Blaze was great in the Dan Ketch sereis. So gritty and badass. I don't have a problem with him being GR again, but they need to explain it. There was so much history and a big following of the DK series, it's a big mistake on Marvels part not to aknoladge it.

[Dan Ketch]

I've recently reread the entire run of the Dan Ketch Ghost Rider and I can see why they canceled it, the series started making a slow decline after issue 50 and starting taking a nose dive when Ivan Velez took over on the book and then with Pop Mahn, the gay "updated" costume and the ridiculous and uninteresting storylines of the last 20 issues or so but they cancelled it right when it was getting good again with Javier Saltares and Mark Texiera coming back to the series and the storyline was actually pretty interesting of the last story arc but then they axed it before it had a chance to really get back on track. Too bad...I miss that series and fear we'll never see anything of those characters again...

[Mr Nick]

I stopped reading when they messed with his costume. I just thought, "What. The. Hell?":eek:

[BIGGUN]

I stopped reading when they messed with his costume. I just thought, "What. The. Hell?":eek:


yeah...no kidding.
that yellow/red getup was horrible. talk about misunderstanding what the character was all about. geeze
i wouldnt have mind if they did change the outfit some...but yellow and red colors? in a speedsuit? im sure that helped killed the book even more back then...read some time ago alot of readers just dropped the book because of that move.

[Mr.MojoRisin]

Yeah, it did get pretty stupid for awhile. I think the new one is definately in the right direction, but I still think they should aknoladge the old continuity.

[NDX]

I stopped reading about 5 or 6 issues before the revamped suit. When I finally picked up all the back issues in 2001, I was shocked, flabbergasted, and, well, I laughed my ass off for about a week when I saw the outfit. Man, that was funny to see.

[CaptainStacy]

That's just *****ing retarded. Why even give him the book if he doesnt know what's happened to any of the characters in the last 20 years? GR is one of my favorite characters of all time and to see his continuity just plain ignored on the verge of the characters biggest hype and popularity EVER pisses me off to no end. Anyone else share the same feelings?


I'm with you. Which is why i boycotted this series, and the series before it. And Frank Cho's Shanna The She Devil.

Continuity is what made Marvel great, and set it apart and above its Distinguished Competition. Now, the current group of retarts supposedly in charge at Marvel treat continuity like its a dirty word.

Well, **** 'em. I'm not going to support ANY book given to lazy so called "writers" who cant be bothered to honor and respect the history of Marvel that came before them.

Instead, i'll support creators like Dan Slott and Rob Kirkman who actually CARE about fans and Marvel's wonderful universe.

And maybe, as DC comics continues to dominate the top ten more and more, month after month, the Joe Quesadas and Dan Buckleys, and Garth Ennis' will just.....go away.

[Dan Ketch]

^^ Amen brother I hear I hear you! Just the absurdaty of the quote is what pissed me off, he didnt read it so it doesnt count. That's like Marvel putting a writer on Spider-Man that didnt realize Gwen Stacy had died so she's just back for no reason with no explaination as to why or how...It makes me mad!!

[Riding Ghost]

I've recently reread the entire run of the Dan Ketch Ghost Rider and I can see why they canceled it, the series started making a slow decline after issue 50 and starting taking a nose dive when Ivan Velez took over on the book and then with Pop Mahn, the gay "updated" costume and the ridiculous and uninteresting storylines of the last 20 issues or so

I think that is a fair assessment of the situation.
valez/mahn were double death knells for the book.

[Riding Ghost]

Continuity is what made Marvel great, and set it apart and above its Distinguished Competition. Now, the current group of retarts supposedly in charge at Marvel treat continuity like its a dirty word.


I agree with you 1000% on that. Although I've always thought that Vol2 GR was a symptom of that problem not a victim.

[Hellstormer]

-something was here, but now it's dead-

[Hellstormer]

I liked Ketch and I think the only reason he gets a bad rep is because people were attached to Blaze (and maybe that God-awful suit) but I like Dan (GR) and Blaze Teaming up I thought it gave it a Obi-Wan and Anikan vibe. And the fact that this is the third mini (Hammerlane and Supernaturals) that doesn't even mention Dan really pisses me off.

This is true.. but the big problem I have with ANOTHER teenage kid, with his alter ego making his college life problematic is that he sounds to much like frickin' spider-dork. I liked the Ketch series but he really had no business being GR. I would rather him had been 13-15 year old, BMX racer that transformed to GR. At least there would be some connection to a bike. That's a cool idea for like Ultimate Ghost Rider.

[FlameHead]

The HammerLane just pisses me off... in it's entirety.

[Bealsebub]

Wow.

I loved the work that Ivan velez put into GR. He made me care about a one note character.

Did anyone see Adam Pollina's concept artwork for the new costume? (Yes, he was the one that redesigned it). It was beautiful. An outfit composed entirely of hellfire, and that's how it looked when he drew it. not neon. Fire. He should've been the artist on the book. Then, maybe, people would've understood what was happening.

I wonder what was planned for #94.I looked for that issue forever before I learn that marvel never released it to begin with.

And most importantly, does anyone have a cover scan of #92 of this series? I need to find a copy but would like to know what it looks like first, to help.

-D

[theescapeclause]

I wonder what was planned for #94.I looked for that issue forever before I learn that marvel never released it to begin with.

And most importantly, does anyone have a cover scan of #92 of this series? I need to find a copy but would like to know what it looks like first, to help.

-D

The script for 94 is floating around on the net. Vengeance Unbound had it, but that site has been MIA for months. Try google. As for a scan of #92, check out www.comicspriceguide.com.

[NDX]

Issue 92 cover - http://mrlcomics.com/ghost_rider_vol2_covers/ghost_rider_vol2_cover_92.jpg

I would tell you to avoid issue 94 at all costs. It was the worst dribble I read since I started reading comics (which says a lot). It wasn't closure, it was nausea.

[FlameHead]

The script for 94 is floating around on the net. Vengeance Unbound had it, but that site has been MIA for months. Try google. As for a scan of #92, check out www.comicspriceguide.com.

Unfortuntly, VU is down at the moment but, I do have a pic of what the cover for 94 would have been...

http://img455.imageshack.us/img455/6342/9403saltares7le.jpg

[Gamma Warrior]

I mean, Road to Damnation was pretty good, and This current ongoing by Daniel Way is even better, but they would have to do something really special for it to top Ketch GR...

[The Joker]

Ketch's GR was NEVER the best. The Blaze version has always been vastly superior.

[Gamma Warrior]

You wouldn't think so. On just about every board I run across people love the ketch Gr and alweays say Blaze was okay. It's a matter of opinion. But either way, I believe that series was better written...

[BIGGUN]

So far nothing has beaten the final issues of the original GR #68-83. Ketch was good and had better villains but the story and characters were not nearly as well written as the final Blaze issues. but then again there was more empahsis on story and characters than art back in those days

[Gamma Warrior]

So far nothing has beaten the final issues of the original GR #68-83. Ketch was good and had better villains but the story and characters were not nearly as well written as the final Blaze issues. but then again there was more empahsis on story and characters than art back in those days
So you Like Blaze more than Ketch?

[BIGGUN]

So you Like Blaze more than Ketch?

yup...Blaze to me was a more interesting character. the 70s GR read more like a classic horror story. slowly but surely the demon was becoming more dominant as the series progressed. that was always the main theme of the book from about the mid 20s or so. they got away from the superhero aspect and moved to a more horror themed storyline.
dont get me wrong i still like the Ketch series....it had a good deal of improvements over the 70s series but they just didnt have the same kind of character development as the Blaze series did. if the Ketch series kept the aspect of him becoming more addicted to actually becoming GR that would have been cool.

[Chris Wallace]

Now in retrospect, I liked Ketch's powers more but Blaze's story is overall more interesting. Which I guess is why the current incarnation is the best of both worlds.

[The Joker]

Indeed...although the only things I think Ketch had over Blaze at all were his costume and the penance stare...Blaze used chains, didnt he? I cant remember and I'm too lazy to look it up right now. If not, that's another thing Ketch had Blaze didnt...But I always liked the shooting hellfire thing Blaze did, that was pretty cool. And his bike was better looking.

[kore4life95]

:ghost: Hands down everyone that breathes ghost Rider knows that Daniel ketch was born to be a host of the Spirit Of Vengeance, but no only a host but by far the best one to date.

[The Joker]

:ghost: Hands down everyone that breathes ghost Rider knows that Daniel ketch was born to be a host of the Spirit Of Vengeance, but no only a host but by far the best one to date.

You're in the minority on these boards :o

[RabidWolfe]

It's not that tough.

While the first 25 issues or so of the Ketch series were very well done, the final issues of Blaze's initial run were hands down brillant, especially the Circus of Crime arc.

[Midnyte_Sun]

I started with the Ketch series, and it was the Ketch series that drew me into the character. If it wasn't for the Ketch series I wouldn't have admired Blazes run that much. I loved the enemies and the darker storylines, but I became desenchanted right after the "No Penance" storyline when Velez Jr went a completely different direction on the character.

After that point, I really did not like his team ups with that Duck guy, his silly Mcdonalds orange and yellow costume, and the entire Noble Kale arc that totally spit in the face of Howard Mackie's built up story line of the Blood and the ancient (and still mysterious) Midnight Sons, and their battle against Zarathos.

The new series that Way is writing has so much to give thanks to the 90s series: Most Notably, Javiar Saltaires, Mark Texeira, Ghost Rider's Leather Look, and not to mention the established fan base of the 90s series, which includes me, :) .

[NDX]

Howard the Duck was the best and most pointless guest star ever.

Okay, so Valez, Jr.'s run completely ruined what made Ghost Rider entertaining and added a numerous amount of 1970s guest stars that had no reason to be revived.

I grew up on the Ketch series, and never really read anything about the Blaze series (the occassional reprint, not the Rides Again series, though). I finished the Essential Vol. 1 and I can't wait for 2 because that beginning of the character was so damn well done, and I want to see how the series progressed.

But still lean towards the Ketch since that is where my love the flaming skull came from.

[The Joker]

I started on the Ketch version, but the crappy soap opera elements drove me crazy...the whole long lost brothers thing was incredibly retarded

[NDX]

I started on the Ketch version, but the crappy soap opera elements drove me crazy...the whole long lost brothers thing was incredibly retarded

I'll give you that. When I read that, I groaned. And then Seige of Darkness.

Surprise I lasted to ish 76 before I blew it off altogether. Mackie really made up some decent stories after that debacle.

[Midnyte_Sun]

I ate the Siege of Darkness up like candy, and the Midnight Massacre before it. I enjoyed every minute of it. I enjoyed the Spirits of Vengeance comic, the Midnight Sons quarterly, pretty much everything they could dish out on Ghost Rider.

Velez Jr's run was not that bad, it was different from Mackie's, but he did put some personality into Dan Ketch, Badalino, Hellgate, Snowblind, and Blackheart which I enjoyed. I think the entire Noble Kale arc is what really turned me off from it. From that point on, it almost seemed that Marvel just wanted the series to die, and needless to say, it did.

[Chris Wallace]

I dropped the book after Valez introduced that Noble Kale nonsense. Mackie wrote a story in Spider-Man debunking it, which made his feelings on the issue crystal clear.
But the Ketch series, again, was entertaining at first but got lost along the way.

[Dan Ketch]

Dan Ketch was better in my eyes cause that's how I met GR.

[Netmaster]

Blaze all the way. I like both, but I do think Blaze was a far more interesting character.

[Netmaster]

:ghost: Yep.

[Krypton_Son]

Blaze was by far the best, the stories were more entertaining. The Ketch GR was good, but to me the best part about that series was Blaze.

[Ixnay Unbound]

As much as I love the first 25 issues of the Ketch run, I agree with BigGun: NOTHING beats the final 14 issues of volume 1. Roger Stern, JM DeMatteis, Bob Budiansky, and Don Perlin were firing on all cylinders - and to me, that run was probably my all-time favorite comic run.

And though I love Saltares/Texeira, Bob Budiansky still wins the prize for drawing the definitive Ghost Rider to me.

[Reaper]

Ketch's GR was NEVER the best. The Blaze version has always been vastly superior.

I second that :ghost:

[Chris Wallace]

I Third It.

[Bishop2]

Fourth'd.

[theescapeclause]

Hey dudes, I found this on a torrent site today. Someone uploaded a torrent of scans of the entire original run of the Blaze GR, plus some champions stuff. It's about 900 megs, but worth the dl I think. For those of us that can't find or afford the whole run, its a cool way to read the stories, and check out the original Ghost Rider. you have to be a member of the site, but it's free.

http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/380181/979615/

p.s. sorry if posting this is in violation of any board rules. it's cool if the mods have to delete it.

[BIGGUN]

great find escape!
heh...i dig that Champions issue w/ the Sentinels. makes it look like GR is running away! should have this caption Black Widow:"Ghost Rider! Where are you going?!!! Dont leave us!!!"
GR:"LOL SUCKERS!!! Youve been GhostOWNED!" :woot:

[writer6886]

Hey Look I need help. Ghost Ride eventually Defeated Blackout. But It doesn't say what issue. It's not in the 1990 series because the last issue in that series where blackout was seen was in #54 where he killed a reporter on live tv. Can anyone please tell what comic was Blackout killed?
Thank you.
Writer6886.

[BIGGUN]

Hey Look I need help. Ghost Ride eventually Defeated Blackout. But It doesn't say what issue. It's not in the 1990 series because the last issue in that series where blackout was seen was in #54 where he killed a reporter on live tv. Can anyone please tell what comic was Blackout killed?
Thank you.
Writer6886.


not sure but i think you might be talking about issue 66
http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=enlarge&issue=35314339256%2066

dont think they had GR actually kill Blackout...more like he left BO to his fate.
im not 100% on this...been awhile since i read it last

[writer6886]

not sure but i think you might be talking about issue 66
http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=enlarge&issue=35314339256%2066

dont think they had GR actually kill Blackout...more like he left BO to his fate.
im not 100% on this...been awhile since i read it last

I can't believe I missed that one. Thank you BIGGUN. I can't wait to see Blackout get his.

[Redvelvetdragon]

My husband seems to like Ketch better as well. I guess it's just a matter of opinion. I'm new to GR so I've not read much yet. I did buy one of the essiential GR books which started from the very first comic with JB. Though I know that most of you are sentimental about it, I have to confess those early stories kind of bored me as it seems that everyone bumping into JB had some deal with the devil. I was half expecting the newspaper delivery boy and the grocery store clerk would be revealed as the next demonic person. I do plan on continuing reading, but I hope that the stories get a little better and more believeable.

Husband has the Dan Ketch stories, so I'll read those as well, but gosh I enjoyed the new release, though I wasn't wild about the last issue.

[FlameHead]

You're in the minority on these boards :o

Minority indeed and I know what it feels like. I'm one of the only other Ketch fans on here. Probably the most vocal about it, as I'm sure you've all noticed.

[HAMACKIE]

Is it too late for me to say that I always liked the Blaze version better?

Howard

[Kevin D. Comicboy]

Ketch for me

[LivingTribunal]

So far nothing has beaten the final issues of the original GR #68-83. Ketch was good and had better villains but the story and characters were not nearly as well written as the final Blaze issues. but then again there was more empahsis on story and characters than art back in those days

GR lasted 81 issues
Agreed was very good

[LivingTribunal]

I mean, Road to Damnation was pretty good, and This current ongoing by Daniel Way is even better, but they would have to do something really special for it to top Ketch GR...

Nothing surpasses Blaze/Zarathos GR. Struggle was awesome. GR #35 when he defeats Death in a race. #47 such a classic.

[Gathrn]

Gotta say that IMO the Dan Ketch Ghost Rider was the best. I liked the early Johnny Blaze stories, but I liked the early 90s GR.

[Chains]

I grew up on Ketch GR and like him the best. Every Blaze issue I've seen has bored me in comparison, but I don't think I've seen the issues the Blaze fans hype up the most so I'd like to get my hands on those. I'll be interested to see any difference of opinion the Ketch fans have about the movie relative to the Blaze fans. It's '07 not much longer.

[Kevin D. Comicboy]

Welcome to the Hype.:)

[Kevin D. Comicboy]

unless i've said it b4:huh:

[TheGreg]

I can't believe I missed that one. Thank you BIGGUN. I can't wait to see Blackout get his.


It ended with Blackout chained to the radio tower of the World Trade Center. The sun came up and he cried about how he hated the sun, but I don't think it killed him, or that it was meant to kill him, just torture him... we all know GR doesn't kill...

Of couse, if he were still there in Sept. of 2001 he probably didn't make it... so maybe GR is responsible for his death after all.

[Ixnay Unbound]

Actually, Blackout showed up in the first arc of (sigh) NEW AVENGERS, as one of the escapees of the Raft prison for supervillains. Apparantely, from what I've read in other places, Deathwatch was supposed to have been there as well.

[Canadian Rider]

Hey dudes, I found this on a torrent site today. Someone uploaded a torrent of scans of the entire original run of the Blaze GR, plus some champions stuff. It's about 900 megs, but worth the dl I think. For those of us that can't find or afford the whole run, its a cool way to read the stories, and check out the original Ghost Rider. you have to be a member of the site, but it's free.

http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/380181/979615/

p.s. sorry if posting this is in violation of any board rules. it's cool if the mods have to delete it.

My wife got Me the Ghost Rider Essentials.

I would have said Ketch 90's in a heartbeat, but rereading some of the early Blaze stuff is interesting.

The stories are definitely different in that "70's Dude" kind of way. I am really enjoying it.

I think I have to dig out my GR collections and reread the 90's stuff again.

[Brazilian_Fan]

Hi, I’m a brazilian fan and I’m writing an article about the Ghost Rider. And I have a lot of doubts about the origins of the second Ghost Rider (Dan Ketch). If you can answer my questions, I’ll be grateful! These are my questions:

– In Ghost Rider #18 was published the first modern appearance of Centurious, an old enemy of Ghost Rider (Johnny Blaze). In Ghost Rider #81- second series he was arrested in a “crystal of souls”. How did he free of this prision?

– In Ghost Rider #33 Dan Ketch revealed to be adopted. How did he know this fact?

– Who is the Caretaker? I think his first appearance was in Ghost Rider #28, but I didn’t understand the importance of this character.

– In Ghost Rider #43 Ketch e Blaze learned the “full truth” about Zarathos. What is this “truth”? In this issue we discovered the relationship between Ketch and Blaze. How did they know this relationship? In this issue was revelead anything about Kale family?

– Who is Anton Hellgate? He killed Roxanne Simpson in Ghost Rider #50, but I didn’t find any information about this character.

– In Ghost Rider #77-79 was revealed the curse of the Kale family and the Ghost Rider wears a new uniform . What is the explanation to the new look?

– In Ghost Rider #84 was revealed the real origin of Dan Ketch. What is the “real origin”?

– In Ghost Rider #90-93 Ghost Rider defeat BlackHeart and he become the Lord of the Hell. Do you know any review about these stories?