Donner and Johns's ACTION COMICS...Official Thread!

[Orko Is King]

http://dccomics.com/media/covers/6199_400x600.jpg

There's a preview in the new Wizard. Anyone have scans???

[Orko Is King]

http://centurysendsavior.com/ActionComicsKubert1.jpg

http://centurysendsavior.com/ActionComicsKubert2.jpg

[Spike_x1]

I am not looking forward to anything at all from this team. Johns should stay the hell away from Superman and go back to writing The Flash.

[Superman \S/]

I'm looking forward to this for sure! I think Donner/Johns will deliver great stories and i really like the art.

[The Leaguer]

The art will be pretty. The writing won't. Johns needs to take a f***ing vacation.

[Mogwai]

I can't wait for this. I'm looking foward to seeing Kubert's designs for Brainiac and Zod.

[Joker]

it better be alot better than the current Action Comics arc...it's boring as hell...

[HR-PUFF&STUFF]

i may pick this up, looks good.

[DrMylesOBoogie]

John's is great but the premise for this story doesn't appeal to me.

[Morgoth]

I knew about Donner but, I didn't know about Kubert!!! Rock on!!! Now I really can't wait for this!

So does every artist that does Batman go right to Superman after? First Jim Lee, now Kubert.:yay:

This is so great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mathhater]

I knew about Donner but, I didn't know about Kubert!!! Rock on!!! Now I really can't wait for this!

So does every artist that does Batman go right to Superman after? First Jim Lee, now Kubert.:yay:

This is so great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Two different Kuberts. Andy's doing "Batman"...his brother Adam's doing "Superman." But that's okay...cause he's awesome too. :cwink:

[boywonder13]

http://www.supermancinema.co.uk/daily_planet/news/index.shtml

RICHARD DONNER'S SUPERMAN III - EDITED 14/9/06

Did Dick Donner have plans for Superman III? Well he did and you can read the Action comic book based on his ideas for the third picture from October 25th. It's written by Geoff Johns (A very nice person, I remember talking to him before he and Dick sat down to watch the 3hr cut of Superman back in 2000, gosh - doesn't time fly) and Richard Donner, the story is slated to be their second addition in the series. Details here.

[Superman \S/]

^ What does that have to do with the comic?

[Superman: Idols]

^ What does that have to do with the comic?

The comic is based on Donner's scrapped ideas for Superman III.

[PSU442]

hmm... as a not so serious comic book reader, this looks cool.

[Jlandsw]

Why does Lara look like Ursa from Superman II?

[Joker]

reading the article, I'm very much looking forward to the Superman 3 arc, the Bizarro World arc, and the apperance by my personal favorite superman villain, Zod :o

[PSU442]

Why does Lara look like Ursa from Superman II?

must be the kryptonian look.

[Binker]

Here is the variant cover by Kubert for Action Comics #844:

http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Action/AC-Cv844-variant.jpg

[The Leaguer]

Not quite as iconic as the Batman varient was.

[Binker]

Here is the 7 page preview to Action #844! Thansk go to BYTB, which I'm a part of. These are pdf files so right click them and save to see:

http://batmanytb.com/supermanytb/comics/titles/actioncomics/801_900/action844b.pdf

http://batmanytb.com/supermanytb/comics/titles/actioncomics/801_900/action844c.pdf

http://batmanytb.com/supermanytb/comics/titles/actioncomics/801_900/action844d.pdf

http://batmanytb.com/supermanytb/comics/titles/actioncomics/801_900/action844e.pdf

http://batmanytb.com/supermanytb/comics/titles/actioncomics/801_900/action844f.pdf

http://batmanytb.com/supermanytb/comics/titles/actioncomics/801_900/action844g.pdf

[Morgoth]

Two different Kuberts. Andy's doing "Batman"...his brother Adam's doing "Superman." But that's okay...cause he's awesome too. :cwink:See I thought they said Andy's doing both, I figured it was like what Jim Lee did, Bats first then Supes.

Oh well. Both good but Andy is better.

[Morgoth]

Just read it. Loved it, can't wait for the action to get started and see what comes of the story.

Well, it seems yet again there is another mystery "Super" Boy to talk about, first Lois' son in the new movie and now this.

Although I don't think they need another Kryptonian introduced. Just leave it at Kal-El and SuperGirl.

Maybe he'll turn out to be something altogether different. I don't trust the kid.

Adam Kubert's art is good but, his brother Andy is so much better. Too bad Andy couldn't do it. I'm glad he's doing Batman though.

It is nice to see Andy doing some covers at least.

Can't wait for Bizarro in the next issue and Zod and Brainiac later on.

It is a really nice touch to see the books have a bit of influence from the movie now, with the Crystals and all.

My favorite part of the book was actually the ad in the back for SUPERMAN II The Richard Donner cut. It has a nice short letter from Dick talking about his cut of the movie and his love of the film.

This truly is the year of Superman, first the movie, now this great writer and artist team up on Action comics, and November 28th the Richard cut of Super 2.:woot: :super: I'm happy.

[Binker]

PLOT:
In this first issue to the arc "Last Son," a small child from the planet Krypton is sent by his parents to Earth with powers beyond imagination. The child's future potential is limitless, even when Superman finds him!

REVIEW:
So here it is, THE BIG EVENT: SUPERMAN GETS A SON. Why is it a big event? Because Superman is an icon. Sure Batman got himself a son of his own, and Batman is one of the popular comic book heroes, but a change in Superman affects everyone. Superman's death was a big news story because it was a media event. Same goes for Clark/Superman marrying Lois Lane, it was a shocker to alot of people. Superman is a symbol people look up to and relate to. And he has had many evolutions; when he started, he was the great immigrant story, then the great love triangle. When he was engaged and then married to long time love Lois Lane, he & Lois were now the ultimate married couple. Now Superman is going through another evolution: the ultimate family man. With him and Lois (and the son) being the ultimate family.

So how was the issue? It turned out great. Before I went to buy it, I heard by some that they thought the issue was average. But after I read it, it didn't feel average to me. I know some people, like me, were afraid the comic was going to be very much like the Donner/Singer movies TOO MUCH. But it actually isn't. In some respects, its like Superman Returns (well the son idea came from that but not just that). But its still the comic book Superman. Also, another concern I had was that since Richard Donner was brought up to date of the current Superman, I was still had some fear that the story would forget what happened when Supergirl arrived in the Supergirl arc from Superman/Batman. Luckily that wasn't the case. I mean they still mentioned her so its not like "forgotten".

So the kid (the comic book kid, not Jason the SR kid). What's his name? He doesn't know. Where's he from? Krypton, of course. In this issue, we're given the facts: he doesn't speak english, only kryptonese. He has super strength, so far. And the government wants him, and even went as far as to take him away only to anger big blue. And this kid didn't get unnoticed by Luthor, which what he'll be ending up doing will occur in the next issues. So far, we don't know anything about this kid other than what we already know. Again, while it does sound like a Supergirl repeat, there are differences to show that its not really. At least Supergirl had a clue of why she was sent, this kid doesn't.

Now as I said before, we were afraid of how much of the movies was going to be in the comics with this arc. But as it turned out, well until something gets revealed in the next ones, there wasn't alot of the movies in this issue. Now we already have the crystal technology and Fortress from the movies, thanks to the OYL Up, Up & Away arc, so it was obivious that Superman would get to talk to Jor-El like in the movies. That is what happens in this issue's beginning. And the Jor-El in the Fortress isn't like the Donner films in which Superman was actually talking to his kryptonian father, instead Fortress Jor-El is an AI like he was in Superman Returns. Perry White is just like Jackie Cooper's protrayal. And while Superman now sports an "S" on his belt like SR, Clark Kent looks like Brandon Routh. That's it. Everything else is the same as its always been in the comics (Lois & Clark married, Pa Kent still alive, etc). Again, it seems my fears are gone.

Now while my fears are gone though, I still want to say something to DC Comics about certain things recently. First with the crystal Fortress and now with little more and news of Smallville's Chloe about to be in the comics, it somewhat seems DC is reversing the idea of comics influencing media by using media's ideas for their comics. Now its just Superman, and its not THAT much to be consider a worry, but I'm just saying, DC: its the comics that should influence the media's protrayals of their characters, not the other way around. While so far so good, I'm just saying this to avoid a future problem.

Overall, this turned out to be fine. Again, I had fears first but it didn't turn out to be as bad as I feared it would. I liked it and I'm excited to see what's next. I think its because they updated Richard Donner with what has been going on to Superman. With Donner and Geoff Johns, I wanan see what's next.

RATING: 8/10

[Mogwai]

PLOT:
In this first issue to the arc "Last Son," a small child from the planet Krypton is sent by his parents to Earth with powers beyond imagination. The child's future potential is limitless, even when Superman finds him!

REVIEW:
So here it is, THE BIG EVENT: SUPERMAN GETS A SON. Why is it a big event? Because Superman is an icon. Sure Batman got himself a son of his own, and Batman is one of the popular comic book heroes, but a change in Superman affects everyone. Superman's death was a big news story because it was a media event. Same goes for Clark/Superman marrying Lois Lane, it was a shocker to alot of people. Superman is a symbol people look up to and relate to. And he has had many evolutions; when he started, he was the great immigrant story, then the great love triangle. When he was engaged and then married to long time love Lois Lane, he & Lois were now the ultimate married couple. Now Superman is going through another evolution: the ultimate family man. With him and Lois (and the son) being the ultimate family.

So how was the issue? It turned out great. Before I went to buy it, I heard by some that they thought the issue was average. But after I read it, it didn't feel average to me. I know some people, like me, were afraid the comic was going to be very much like the Donner/Singer movies TOO MUCH. But it actually isn't. In some respects, its like Superman Returns (well the son idea came from that but not just that). But its still the comic book Superman. Also, another concern I had was that since Richard Donner was brought up to date of the current Superman, I was still had some fear that the story would forget what happened when Supergirl arrived in the Supergirl arc from Superman/Batman. Luckily that wasn't the case. I mean they still mentioned her so its not like "forgotten".

So the kid (the comic book kid, not Jason the SR kid). What's his name? He doesn't know. Where's he from? Krypton, of course. In this issue, we're given the facts: he doesn't speak english, only kryptonese. He has super strength, so far. And the government wants him, and even went as far as to take him away only to anger big blue. And this kid didn't get unnoticed by Luthor, which what he'll be ending up doing will occur in the next issues. So far, we don't know anything about this kid other than what we already know. Again, while it does sound like a Supergirl repeat, there are differences to show that its not really. At least Supergirl had a clue of why she was sent, this kid doesn't.

Now as I said before, we were afraid of how much of the movies was going to be in the comics with this arc. But as it turned out, well until something gets revealed in the next ones, there wasn't alot of the movies in this issue. Now we already have the crystal technology and Fortress from the movies, thanks to the OYL Up, Up & Away arc, so it was obivious that Superman would get to talk to Jor-El like in the movies. That is what happens in this issue's beginning. And the Jor-El in the Fortress isn't like the Donner films in which Superman was actually talking to his kryptonian father, instead Fortress Jor-El is an AI like he was in Superman Returns. Perry White is just like Jackie Cooper's protrayal. And while Superman now sports an "S" on his belt like SR, Clark Kent looks like Brandon Routh. That's it. Everything else is the same as its always been in the comics (Lois & Clark married, Pa Kent still alive, etc). Again, it seems my fears are gone.

Now while my fears are gone though, I still want to say something to DC Comics about certain things recently. First with the crystal Fortress and now with little more and news of Smallville's Chloe about to be in the comics, it somewhat seems DC is reversing the idea of comics influencing media by using media's ideas for their comics. Now its just Superman, and its not THAT much to be consider a worry, but I'm just saying, DC: its the comics that should influence the media's protrayals of their characters, not the other way around. While so far so good, I'm just saying this to avoid a future problem.

Overall, this turned out to be fine. Again, I had fears first but it didn't turn out to be as bad as I feared it would. I liked it and I'm excited to see what's next. I think its because they updated Richard Donner with what has been going on to Superman. With Donner and Geoff Johns, I wanan see what's next.

RATING: 8/10
Great review, I really enjoyed this comic.

[OneKnight]

Does anybody know how many issues this arc is supposed to be?

[Mogwai]

Does anybody know how many issues this arc is supposed to be?
six

[M.O.Steel]

amazing how similar these characters are to the movie. The s buckle, the look of clark kent, jimmy, the office. I like it.

[Superbeasto]

It is sold out in my local comic shop, i have to buy the variant cover for 12 bucks, its not for me, but for a friend, anyone couldnt get a copy?

[OneKnight]

six

Thanks, Mogwai.

[Freddy_Krueger]

Great issue. It seems on other boards, like DC and Newsarama, that people are pretty split on it (some complaining about the art, some complaining about what Superman does with the kid). Myself, I can't wait to see what Johns and Donner have planned for us next. :)

[Andy C.]

Rather amazing how different the opinions are in the thread in the DC Comics forum. Everyone there is just ****ting on it after one issue. Being overly judgemental is fun!

Anyway, I quite enjoyed the issue (though if the kid is staying around, I'd prefer it to have been Supes and Lois's actual kid) I like the look of the artwork, and I'm particularly interested in seeing how this all turns out.

[The Leaguer]

Tell you what, how about I saw off your arm, but you can't start screaming until it's all the way off, because otherwise that would be overly judgmental!

[Andy C.]

Rather colorful comparison there, but I honestly don't see what was so horrible about the issue.

[The Leaguer]

Not seeing what's horrible about the issue is fine, but don't say ridiculous things like people can't judge a first issue.

[Morgoth]

Man I can't wait to see the next issue!!!

[The Leaguer]

You can if you know what's good for you.

[Agentdemon]

Art was ok, I liked the SR elements except the buckle. I honestly didn't like it but its just a setup issue so I'll keep my hopes up that it will blow me away.

[X Knight]

umm.....so is the premise here that the kid is from Krypton, and he crashed down on Earth much like Superman did many years ago? And, the kid will be adopted by Supes and Lois, much like Supes was adopted by the Kents?

[Mogwai]

umm.....so is the premise here that the kid is from Krypton, and he crashed down on Earth much like Superman did many years ago? And, the kid will be adopted by Supes and Lois, much like Supes was adopted by the Kents?
looks that way

[Morgoth]

How much longer til the next issue?! I can't wait. I love it!!!:woot: I have to admit though, Andy's art is better than Adam's, too bad Andy couldn't have done Supes aswell.

[Mogwai]

How much longer til the next issue?! I can't wait. I love it!!!:woot: I have to admit though, Andy's art is better than Adam's, too bad Andy couldn't have done Supes aswell.
I feel like Adam's art was way better in Ultimate X-Men...but then again, I guess he's going for a unique look for Supes.

[DavidTyler]

Read it. Wasn't really that impressed. I'll keep reading it. Maybe it will excite me at some point.

Why does everyone think Donner is some kind of God when it comes to Superman? I think he's better on the 'Lethal Weapon' series. Humour and pathos is his strong point. I'm not seeing a lot of it here. Maybe that's John's doing.

In any case, I'll keep picking it up but I hope I start enjoying it more.

[Mogwai]

what's keeping me reading it is the fact that johns/donner promised to give all supe's classic villians a revamp.

[Morgoth]

Want to see more pics! Anything from part 2!:oldrazz:

[mego joe]

I don't think the kid will make it beyond the arc. I also don't think he's going to end up really being Kryptonian. All the suspense is overwith if we already know he's going to be SUperman's Kryptonian adopted Super-son.

[Jlandsw]

Just picked up the first issue today. Awesome read!

[Jlandsw]

Read it. Wasn't really that impressed. I'll keep reading it. Maybe it will excite me at some point.

Why does everyone think Donner is some kind of God when it comes to Superman? I think he's better on the 'Lethal Weapon' series. Humour and pathos is his strong point. I'm not seeing a lot of it here. Maybe that's John's doing.

In any case, I'll keep picking it up but I hope I start enjoying it more.

Because:

Donner is to Superman as
Raimi is to Spider-Man as
Nolan is to Batman

[The Leaguer]

What does that have to do with the comics? :confused:

[mego joe]

Because:

Donner is to Superman as
Raimi is to Spider-Man as
Nolan is to Batman

I disagree. WHile Superman the MOvie is the best live action SUperman film, some of Donner's concepts are not out of the comics, while the other two films did better jobs of being faithful to the comics.

I think Raimi's Spider-Man is more faithful to the comics than any other comic book film. Although, Daredevil isn't bad either in this respect.

Donner added the bit about Jor-El sending Kal-El to Earth to be a 'savior' of sorts. In the comics, the only thing Jor-El and Lara are concerned with is finding a planet which is habitable for Kryptonians. Jor-El realized that Kal-El will be super-powerful (original origin all Kryptonians were SUper-powerful) on Earth, but he doesn't expect him to somehow live outside the perameters of being human. Jonathan Kent echoes the sentiment that 'he's here for a reason.' All along it's been more about seredipidy than purpose for Superman's arrival on Earth. This changes the story to be more about fulfilling a destiny or a purpose as opposed to being a story about what is the responsible and right thing to do when you realize you have powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men.

SUperman II adds the bit about having to be mortal in order to live with a mortal. That is just an artificial device to keep Lois and Superman apart so that he has to depower in SUperman II. Otherwise, it's a really differernt story.

I also think Donner's Luthor is pretty goofy. I think there are better ways they could have done Luthor, even in '78. A little more motivation for him would have been better.

It's interesting to me that, some of the shortcomings of the Donner films really weren't that apparent to me until I saw Superman Returns and how horrendously those same elements were interpreted by Bryan Singer.

As for Batman and Christopher Nolan, there is no doubt that Batman Begins is the best live action Batman film by a HUGE margin. Nolan made some changes and tweaks, but I think it is more faithful to comics than Donner's SUperman, as far as the essence and basics go and setting up the world of the charcter and how he relates to it.

SO to rank:

1. Raimi's SPider-Man
2. Johnson's Daredevil
3. Nolan's Batman
4. Donner's Superman

[DavidTyler]

Donner is To Supes as Raimi is to Spidey as Nolan is to Bats?!!!!

If this comic is any indication... NO. HE'S NOT.

S:TMP I can forgive a little because of the time period it was made and how, in that day and age, superheroes were not taken seriously. It was as campy as the Batman television series but more reverently. Had that movie been made today, it would have been a huge comedy and probably inspired a lot of hatred in fandom.

Time and familiarity has a way of giving everything a rosey glow. Fortunately for me, I saw that movie for what it was when it first came out. I remember thinking to myself that 'OK, it's too soon for a serious Superman movie but this will do for now.' And I was a little kid then. S:TM was NOT my first exposure to Superman. Even then I was judging it by other criteria.

So, Donner is To Supes as Raimi is to Spidey as Nolan is to Bats? (goo goo gajoob). I'm not so sure about that. I don't think there is or has been a Nolan for Superman yet.

The closest we actually come is the team of Dini/Timm who haven't gotten a chance to make a live action film. Hopefully, the WB will see it as a grand experiment and give these two visionaries a shot at one .. maybe even a Superman film.

Now that would work for me.

ini/Timm is To Supes as Raimi is to Spidey as Nolan is to Bats. (I am the walrus....goo goo gajoob)

[Binker]

ACTION COMICS #845

---SPOLILERS INCLUDED---

PLOT:
No records of the boy survived Krypton, which leads to Clark and Lois talking about if they should adopt him. To fix the problem of the kid beign kidnapped, Superman announces to the world that he has saved him and is now the kid's guardian. In the middle of the announcement, Bizarro arrives on the scene.

REVIEW:
The first issue of this arc was so good, and successful, that Action #844 was sent back into the printers for a second printing. I loved it and I waited for the second part of this arc, which I couldn't wait for. Finally we have the second part, and I gotta tell ya this gets more points than the previous issue. More action, things get kicked up...into action, and we do get some thing, or things, revealed.

One of the things about this issue was the parent...issue. Of both Kents: Lois/Clark & Jon/Martha. Because they're old, Pa says that they can not raise another son again. That made sense, but when he said that they (Ma/Pa Kent) will be going soon and Clark said to him not to say that, it made me wonder if that will happen. We don't want it to. As for Clark & Lois, Lois made the point that they couldn't be parents as good as Ma & Pa Kent because Superman has to be there to save the world and Lois wants to try the truth in it. At first I thought that wouldn't make sense as even though it was the same reason, Lois & Clark DID get married. The good thing about this was since Lois is a fighter and doesn't give up, she agrees to try to be the kid's foster mother.

Since we are talking about the kid, things developed for him in this issue. Superman took him into the fortress in hopes to find out if there was anything about him, and unfornatley there wasn't. This kid must have a high intellect because without Clark nor Lois, nor the Kents, teaching him how to speak English, he insistly knows the language and talks to him without Clark having to translate. One of things I liked about this issue was the name they gave the kid, they named him Christopher Kent, or Chris Kent. I really liked that because you know why they did that and kinda honors Christopher Reeve. Since Richard Donner is doing this, the kid getting this name is sorta a remembrance to the actor who who is well known to have played the Man of Steel.

Finally, we find out who this kid's father is, and he is the villian that will come later:

.

.

.

.

.

The kid is the son to General Zod.

And speaking of him, guess who just came into the issue: Zod, Ursa & Non. I knew they were coming in sooner or later. I mean, this is Donner. They appear in the last page (splash page) in three ships similar to what the kid was in. While they said that they came because the zone was broken, I didn't see anything that made me think "Phantom Zone". I guess I either need help or wait til the next issue to explain. But for what we saw of them, they looked nice. They weren't wearing the same outfits as the movie, otherwise that would've been more rip-offed, but in here they seem to be a more up-to-date versions of those outfits with coats over them and sci-fi lookign goggles. The same would be said for their own designs, more up-to-date. Overall, the three look nice.

Before I go, let's not forget Bizarro and Luthor. I'am pretty relieved that Donner didn't decide to add in some of the Hackman, or Spacey, Luthor in this. The Luthor seen here, and the previous issue, is the same Luthor as before. No silliness. Maybe this is due to Infinite Crisis but Luthor has Bizarro under his control, and command again. When we first see him, Bizarro has been locked up watching alot of TVs for 13 months. And when he fights Superman, he pulls no stops like destroying almost everything to get the upper hand and get what he came there to do, like throwign a bus at Chris Kent.

Overall, this issue was another good one by Johns and Donner. More action was added, and there was soke realistic art by Kurbert like the building and vechile shots. The Superman in this arc reminds me of the Golden Age version, most likely due to the fact that he is the kid's guardian. Like in #844 where he goes into furius mode inside a government building, and here where he threatens the director, Steel. This was, again, another good one.

RATING: 8.5/10

[Mogwai]

I enjoyed this issue (looking fwd to the next one!), can't wait for the inevitable battle between Supes and the 3 kryptonians.

[The Leaguer]

Horrendous issue. How many f***ing Zods do we need?

[Joker]

Horrendous issue. How many f***ing Zods do we need?

Uh...1? just like always, and just like there still is now...

[Freddy_Krueger]

Great issue. Of course most of the hardcores are gonna complain about Zod, but I can't wait to see what Donner and Johns do with the character. Other than that, I also loved Lois' growth as a character. She doesn't want to mother the future Chris Kent, but the moment she sees him after Bizarro's attack, she wants to give a shot.

Good writing. :up:

[The Leaguer]

Uh...1? just like always, and just like there still is now...
Uh... not according to DC.

[Joker]

Uh... not according to DC.

how so? there's General Zod...and that's it...I guess there's his son, but he's so far shown no evil intents...and because of Infinite Crisis, all previous activities with Zod being killed by Supes, and all the stuff from the For Tomorrow arc could just not be in continuity anymore...so I dont see how there's more than one zod...

[Mogwai]

what do you guys think is inside the pod that "opened" the zone freeing zod, non, & ursa? brainiac maybe?

[The Sage]

Great second issue.

[The Leaguer]

how so? there's General Zod...and that's it...I guess there's his son, but he's so far shown no evil intents...and because of Infinite Crisis, all previous activities with Zod being killed by Supes, and all the stuff from the For Tomorrow arc could just not be in continuity anymore...so I dont see how there's more than one zod...
...Are you serious? You just mentioned three Zods, but you don't see how there's more than one Zod? :confused:

[Cannibal Feast]

I just got the first issue this weekend and really enjoyed it. I can't wait to get the rest.

[Joker]

...Are you serious? You just mentioned three Zods, but you don't see how there's more than one Zod? :confused:

INFINITE CRISIS TOOK THE OTHER 2 OUT OF CONTINUITY...is that spelled out good enough for you???

[The Leaguer]

INFINITE CRISIS TOOK THE OTHER 2 OUT OF CONTINUITY...is that spelled out good enough for you???
Says who?

[Jochimus]

Donner is To Supes as Raimi is to Spidey as Nolan is to Bats?!!!!

If this comic is any indication... NO. HE'S NOT.

S:TMP I can forgive a little because of the time period it was made and how, in that day and age, superheroes were not taken seriously. It was as campy as the Batman television series but more reverently. Had that movie been made today, it would have been a huge comedy and probably inspired a lot of hatred in fandom.

Time and familiarity has a way of giving everything a rosey glow. Fortunately for me, I saw that movie for what it was when it first came out. I remember thinking to myself that 'OK, it's too soon for a serious Superman movie but this will do for now.' And I was a little kid then. S:TM was NOT my first exposure to Superman. Even then I was judging it by other criteria.

So, Donner is To Supes as Raimi is to Spidey as Nolan is to Bats? (goo goo gajoob). I'm not so sure about that. I don't think there is or has been a Nolan for Superman yet.

Well, I don't think any one director should be made synonymous with a pop culture icon - if that were the case, 007 and Godzilla would have been put out to pasture a very, very long time ago. I think Raimi's done a good job with Spidey so far, but I personally think his version of Spidey is still lacking something and is too heavy on sap...you can have human drama without spending most of the film being all syrupy over the girl next door. And I still have to wait and see whether Heath Ledger as the Joker turns out to be as pleasant a surprise as Oldman playing Gordon, or just another Hollywood artistic impulse gone awry. IMO it's still too early to be giving Raimi and Nolan such props.

As for S:TM being as campy as the '60s Batman...the only campy thing I ever saw in the movie was Ned Beatty.

That said, I've already found the first issue of the arc engaging - I especially liked the Kryptonese dialogue between Big Blue and the kid; it seems a lot more well-developed to me than Jason was. I never was particularly big on Kubert art, but this I'm kind of taking a liking to. Barring the front man for the Doobies portraying Jor-El, I thought Action #844 was pretty cool; I'll definitely be getting #845.

[Joker]

Says who?

says DC...all continuity errors were supposed to have been erased with it, that was it's entire point...Zod having been killed by Superman in the Phantom Zone years ago then popping up again alive and well in For Tomorrow was a huge continuity error, so I would assume it's gone...it seems that they took both of those versions of Zod out in favor of a version closer to the movie Zod...if you cant accept this, that's your problem, not DC's or anyone elses

[The Leaguer]

says DC...all continuity errors were supposed to have been erased with it, that was it's entire point...Zod having been killed by Superman in the Phantom Zone years ago then popping up again alive and well in For Tomorrow was a huge continuity error, so I would assume it's gone...it seems that they took both of those versions of Zod out in favor of a version closer to the movie Zod...if you cant accept this, that's your problem, not DC's or anyone elses
It's not what I can't do, it's what I won't do. I won't accept your unfounded assumptions as fact. That would be stupid.

Zod being killed by Superman and then popping up in For Tomorrow is not a conflict. The Zod Superman killed was an alternate dimension. The Zod in For Tomorrow would be our (Superman's) world's Zod.

Duh.

It seems they took both of those versions of Zod out? How? Superman killing Zod was a huge part of Sacrifice, and FT Zod has shown up since (JSA Classified).

Then there was that fake Russian Zod in the red. There's no reason to retcon him out.

Those, plus Action Comics Zod, equals four.

If you can't accept that, it's your problem.

[HR-PUFF&STUFF]

it looks like The Leaguer and The Joker are fighting again i fear that they may split up.

[The Leaguer]

Joker can't leave me, I'm his only source of income.

[HR-PUFF&STUFF]

Joker can't leave me, I'm his only source of income.
and think about the kids.

[The Leaguer]

The kids are adopted. They don't matter.

[Joker]

It's not what I can't do, it's what I won't do. I won't accept your unfounded assumptions as fact. That would be stupid.

Zod being killed by Superman and then popping up in For Tomorrow is not a conflict. The Zod Superman killed was an alternate dimension. The Zod in For Tomorrow would be our (Superman's) world's Zod.

Duh.

It seems they took both of those versions of Zod out? How? Superman killing Zod was a huge part of Sacrifice, and FT Zod has shown up since (JSA Classified).

Then there was that fake Russian Zod in the red. There's no reason to retcon him out.

Those, plus Action Comics Zod, equals four.

If you can't accept that, it's your problem.

we dont even know if any of those stories are in continuity anymore, this is a brand new universe after all

[The Leaguer]

we dont even know if any of those stories are in continuity anymore, this is a brand new universe after all
This isn't a brand new universe, it's the same with a few changes made. We may not know for sure they're still in continuity, but it's pretty safe to say they are, the same way that we can assume that a story like Hush is still in continuity. Didio hasn't made a T-shirt that says "HUSH IS STILL IN CONTINUITY," but we can assume it is. Same with alternate Zod, same with For Tomorrow.

[Joker]

but it is a new universe...they've said as much, plus the last part of IC when you know, all the old universes were combined into a new one sort of gives it away that it is

[The Leaguer]

but it is a new universe...they've said as much, plus the last part of IC when you know, all the old universes were combined into a new one sort of gives it away that it is
Even if it is a new universe, it's exactly like the old one in almost every way. There's no evidence at all that For Tomorrow or the alter-Zod story have been written out of continuity.

[Lt. Figgnuts]

Really, there's only two Zods that are clashing here. :O FT Zod and Donner Zod.

The other Zod was apparently from another dimension or some wackiness, and the other Zod wasn't the real Zod.

Not to say that that isn't an issue, but still.

[The Leaguer]

Duh.

[TwilightPro101]

Okay interesting arguement in play here.

Any way, so far I'm finding this arc to be rather interesting. Does it need work? I can't fully judge until we have the full story.

[The Leaguer]

Work? No, it needs to not exist.

[Binker]

Here is an interview with Geoff Johns on the arc like the return of the three villians:

While the anticipated Geoff Johns/Richard Donner/Adam Kubert run on DC's flagship title began with the appearance of a young boy from Krypton in issue #844, his heritage was revealed in #845.

Oh - before we go further…

SPOILER WARNING

Seriously - it's a nice reveal, and if you haven't read it, don't let us go ruining it for you, okay?

Scoot.

So - everyone who's still here read Action Comics #844-#845, right? Click here for a six page preview of #845 if ya need the reminder...

The boy from Krypton - named "Chris" by Clark Kent and Lois Lane, who've taken him into their guardianship - turned out to be the son of General Zod and Ursa, recently of the Phantom Zone. "Recently," because at the end of #845, together with Non, the three landed in the Arctic wilderness that serves as a location for Superman's Fortress of Solitude.

Oh, it's on.

We spoke with Geoff Johns about the reveal, and the upcoming storyline.

Newsarama: First off Geoff, just so we get it on the table - General Zod, Ursa and Non - who are these characters, continuity-wise?

Geoff Johns: Well, Ursa and Non have never appeared in the comics before, so this is their debut, obviously. As for General Zod - there was the Silver Age Zod, the pocket universe Zod, the Russian Zod, the Jim Lee Zod, and this Zod. For this, we're going back to the classic incarnation of General Zod. He's a criminal from Krypton who wasn't originally a criminal, and you'll find out more of his backstory and origin - as well as his relationship to Jor-el in the Action Annual, and in upcoming issues of Action.

NRAMA: So, in short, this Zod is not the Zod who's appeared previously.

GJ: Right.

NRAMA: And he wasn't a criminal on Krypton?

GJ: Not at first - he was actually an ally of Jor-el's. When Dick [Donner] and I first talked about bringing Zod, Ursa and Non in, we really wanted to talk about their backstory, because we have more room to get into it. So - you'll find out that Jor-el and Zod were allies before Zod was sent to the Phantom Zone. Likewise, Non has a huge backstory that explains why he is the way he is, and we're going to explore all of that.

But really - we're taking the original version of Zod, and then Ursa and Non from the film and doing the comic book version of that.

NRAMA: You've talked about the working relationship you have with Dick on Action, something almost like approaching the stories that you're telling as seeing what toys the two of you want to play with. Was this something that, for him, was an itch he'd been meaning to scratch for twenty or so years, or just one of the most familiar things he knew to start off with?

GJ: I think for us, it was a matter of if we were going to do an arc, we just got thinking about the last time Zod, Non and Ursa were used in the comics. Well, they've never used Non and Ursa, and General Zod…they've danced around the real General Zod for a long, long time, and so we thought of this as the first thing we wanted to do - bring the villains that Dick is best known for on to the table. It just made sense for us.

NRAMA: So, as you said, you're approaching them, fundamentally, as the same, or extremely similar characters to as they appeared in Superman II?

GJ: A bit, but yes - we're using that as a base, but expanding it for the comics. Their backstories are going to be different; their motivations are going to be very different. But we want to stick with them. Everyone knows who they are, and they should be big Superman villains.

NRAMA: So the goal, at least in part, is to set them up as major players in Superman's villains' gallery?

GJ: Yeah, exactly.

NRAMA: The last time any of them were used - seriously and undeniably "them" used was what - the Silver Age, with Zod?

GJ: Pretty much. But even then, Jax-ur was used more…

NRAMA: Jax-ur?

GJ: I've read every Phantom Zone story in preparation for this. Jax-ur was more of a thorn in Superman's side than General Zod was, even though Zod may have had more of a dangerous backstory. But if you ask anybody the names of Superman villains, anyone who doesn't read the comic, they'll say Zod before Brainiac. It just makes sense to use characters, flesh them out and nurture them who everybody knows.

Everyone says Superman doesn't have great villains, but he does.

NRAMA: When you said you had to ready every Phantom Zone story in preparation for this…well, first off, how many of them are there?

GJ: Oh, there are a lot of them. I got the full list from a guy named John Wells who is a Superman aficionado. I've got two short boxes of comics right by my desk, and about 60% of them are Phantom Zone Superman stories. It's amazing when you look at the number of villains in the comics back in the day who were in the Phantom Zone - they just kept adding more. There's a ton of them - and some of them had interesting concepts behind them, like this guy named Tor-an who got out, and seduced Supergirl.

At heart though, they're scary characters. Imagine all the worst villains - and there's a variety of them, and put them in one place. And if they ever came out…

NRAMA: You're going to be getting into this in the Annual and the upcoming issues obviously, but if you can, can you talk about both what the Phantom Zone is like, and what it was used for on Krypton? If one thing about the Phantom Zone has remained true through from the Silver Age, it seems to be that it's a place that is seriously no fun, and Kryptonians viewed sending someone there as an absolute last resort…

GJ: It was a tough decision for them to make, that's for sure. On the whole, as a society and culture, there weren't many villains that popped up on Krypton, but the ones that did were really, really bad. They used execution for a while, but Jor-el found the Phantom Zone, and thought that was a better option than death. Eventually, they'd be released, or, as the idea went, they'd be able to find some new kind of rehabilitation in the future.

But as for the Phantom Zone itself, it's a void. It's a dangerous place. There's nothing. There are things in there that have been put in there that we'll get into - after all, where did the rockets come from? That's all coming up in Action Comics in the next two issues.

But it's a terribly scary place. And we're playing with the idea that they can observe us from that side, and how that affects one's psyche. It's pretty easy to go mad inside that place.

NRAMA: Worse than solitary confinement?

GJ: I'd say so, yeah. And it's not just a totally empty void. There's not land, but there are strange things inside. That's why we're doing the3-D in issue #848. All the 3-D stuff is inside the Phantom Zone.

NRAMA: So - it's not just a gimmick for the issue?

GJ: Right - it's a story-driven thing. We wanted to make it appear really different and do something other than just a color effect or whatever.

NRAMA: So - to tease things out for #846, Zod refers to Chris as his and Ursa's son…the truth?

GJ: Yes - he is their son.

NRAMA: But - given his attitude in #844 and #845…it's going to be a tough sell to buy him as a plant, and have him suddenly start twirling his moustache. Is he a willing participant in the larger plan?

GJ: Chris, for Zod and Ursa, is a tool. That's all he is.

NRAMA: And Clark and Lois are showing him a better time?

GJ: He's already felt more love in five minutes with Superman than he has in his entire life. But we will get more into that and his relationship with his parents as we go forward.

NRAMA: While you're playing with the fatherhood theme, as well as the idea that Chris may be…not treated well by his parents, something that looks to be a large element that's echoing with the real world seems to be that Zod is coming off as…well, a fundamentalist. Not a religious one, that is, but a true believer of his way for a better world…

GJ: Yes.

NRAMA: And willing to use all his powers to make that better world a reality, even if it means killing anyone who doesn't see things his way?

GJ: Yes.





NRAMA: Was that something that you and Dick decided you wanted to play with specifically, that is, to draw parallels between your story and the larger battle that we seem to be facing in our world?

GJ: Not really. The theme is obviously there, but it's not like we set out to tackle it, specifically. I think it's just that…with Zod, and you'll see this as the issues come out, the conflict with Zod is rooted more in what Joe-el wanted and what Zod wanted for the future of Krypton.

But again, there are some echoes of real world themes that have leaked into our story, but that's always the case, I think.

NRAMA: Back to upcoming events, or possible upcoming events of #846 - as you said, Zod, Ursa and Non were not alone in the Phantom Zone. We've seen a total four rockets. Are there more rockets in the Phantom Zone?

GJ: That remains to be seen, I guess.

NRAMA: What kind of reception are Zod, Non and Ursa up for in #846 - and along with that, what can you say about their plan? Zod's a military man, so are we going to see him surveying the battlefield and weighing out the opponent before going on the offensive?

GJ: Yeah - they've arrived right at the House of El - the Fortress of Solitude. So their first mission is to see where this Superman lives, to see what they can learn about him, other than what they know about him from the glimpses they've seen from the Phantom Zone. They want to survey Superman and bit, and then they want their son.

Er, I mean, they need their son.

NRAMA: Want or need?

GJ: Need. Definitely need.

NRAMA: We've talked about this before, but now that we're seeing your and Dick's execution on it, it bears revisiting - both in Superman Returns and your Action run, there's a child - a "son." Was the timing planned/not planned? Obviously, Dick and Bryan Singer are very close…

GJ: In all honesty, we came up with this idea probably about two years ago - that was before we knew anything about the kid showing up in the movie. When we heard about the kid, we thought about changing our story, but decided not to, because wee believe in it, and wanted to tell it, and, I think people will see, it's a different type of story.

If people want, or wanted to assume that this was a kid from Krypton, I didn't have a problem with it - they didn't see the twist coming that this was Zod and Ursa's son. So we're going for it, and I'm really happy with how our story is turning out. I don't mind if people want to think that we're doing our version of what we'd do with a kid or something, because it's fun and it's a solid story.

And our outcome is extremely different.

NRAMA: And how many issues is your first arc?

GJ: This one is six. The thing we're trying really hard to do is make it as accessible as possible. The only thing you really need to know about Superman is that he's married to Lois Lane. Everything else is pretty easy to follow.

NRAMA: Everyone is there, doing what they're supposed to be doing and acting how they're supposed to be acting…

GJ: Right. And don't get me wrong - I've seen some of the comments asking why Jimmy Olsen is so young. He's not. We're not trying to play him young, but we are trying to play him as the classic Jimmy Olsen. It's more fun, and I don't know how else to play Jimmy Olsen. I like to write a fun, cool Jimmy Olsen, but I don't want to write a near-adult Jimmy Olsen. He should be a fun kid who just has really bad luck.

NRAMA: He's the charming, "cool geek" that has grown into his own subcategory of character in way, Joss Whedon's shows and elsewhere, kind of?

GJ: Right. He's really smart, and he's actually really good at his job, but man, he has bad luck, and he's a little overzealous. And Clark Kent is the same way too, a little bit. He's a great reporter, but he's not the best at the Daily Planet. Lois is. He's a little bit absent minded - he's always listening to other things, and his X-ray vision is turning on and off as he needs it. He's not an idiot, but he's not he most well-respected and loved reporter at the Daily Planet - and he shouldn't be.

NRAMA: Otherwise, where's the escape that "Clark" provides?

GJ: Right - it's too easy. Also, one of the things that attracts Jimmy to Clark is that Clark is the only other guy that he hears people talking about. Jimmy gets called out a lot, and people disrespect him, and they also do that to Clark. That's why those two connect.

People just don't pay a lot of attention to Clark, and that's what he wants. He blends in easily.

NRAMA: Which explains all the "Clark, where were you? Superman was just here…"

GJ: Completely.

NRAMA: Continuing down this road and covering a few more of the nudges and bumps that you and Dick have made to get everybody where you want them to be, let's talking about the relationship between Superman and the Jor-el construct in the Fortress. In those scenes, things seemed more alien and distant than Superman's been shown to be in a while…

GJ: Yeah - the first scene you see is Superman going to Jor-el, saying he's been away for a while, by which he's referring to the events of the last few years in the DCU. He tells Jor-el that he's lived as one of "them."

"Did you enjoy it?

"Yes I did."

"Remember, you're not one of them. You look like one of them, that's why you're here, but you're not one of them."

Jor-el is always going to be the constant reminder. He's going to remind his son and want his son to remember his Kryptonian heritage. It's no so much a callousness or coldness as it is an undying truth for Superman. And you have to remember it is a simulation.

NRAMA: So it's like an almost "frozen in time" Jor-el, working to keep his son on track?

GJ: Right, and you can see that - and this is the way it was worked in the films, too, he's often going against his father's wishes or his father's wants - especially if you see the Donner Cut of Superman II. That's the relationship we see between those two - it's not really his father, but it's a simulation that acts as well as Jor-el would.

NRAMA: Larger picture-wise…is this story, as you see it, in continuity? That is, this is occurring post-Crisis and all that means for Superman?

GJ: It is, but we're pulling back a little to make sure that the story is all about Superman. Sarge Steel from Wonder Woman is in there, we mention Supergirl, but we're not going to cram it full of stuff unless it's important to the story.

NRAMA: That said, there will be references, one assumes, if Zod, Ursa and Non are wandering around the fortress…

GJ: Exactly. But with this initial arc, if it feels separate, that's a good thing - we really wanted it to stand on its own.

NRAMA: That said, and finally, will there be guest appearances as the run progress?

GJ: Eventually we will, yes. We've talked about Batman, and Dick really wants to get Batman in there. We've talked about how their interaction will be, and we'll probably have a slightly different take than other people, but we'll probably be seeing that sooner than later.

Source: http://www.newsarama.com

[The Leaguer]

Geoff Johns: Well, Ursa and Non have never appeared in the comics before, so this is their debut, obviously. As for General Zod - there was the Silver Age Zod, the pocket universe Zod, the Russian Zod, the Jim Lee Zod, and this Zod. For this, we're going back to the classic incarnation of General Zod.
Ugh, his complete disregard for previous continuity is sickening.

[charl_huntress]

Still undecided about all this, but I like it. It's been nice to read the views of others though.

[TwilightPro101]

I'm enjoying this new approach as well.

[Andy C.]

Much as I'm enjoying the arc, I really hope they explain what the hell happened to FT Zod.

[HR-PUFF&STUFF]

Much as I'm enjoying the arc, I really hope they explain what the hell happened to FT Zod.
house of M.

[Joker]

Wanda- No more Zod's :o

[HR-PUFF&STUFF]

Wanda- No more Zod's :o
eather that or thunder dome.

[Mike_D202]

This looks pretty good, I hope they compile the whole storyline/Donnor story into a graphic novel.

[The Leaguer]

Hmm, I wonder if they'll do that.

[Binker]

DC COMICS ANNOUNCES NEW CONTENTS FOR ACTION COMICS #847

3-D STORY MOVES TO ISSUE #848

DC Comics announces that part four of the landmark "Last Son" storyline written by Geoff Johns & Richard Donner and illustrated by Adam Kubert has been moved from January's ACTION COMICS #847 to March's issue #848.

ACTION COMICS #847 (DEC060189) will feature a new story written by Dwayne McDuffie (FIRESTORM) and illustrated by Renato Guedes (SUPERMAN: UP, UP AND AWAY; OMAC). With Metropolis under siege from General Zod and the villainous hordes of the Phantom Zone, Clark Kent's friends and family watch in horror as Superman heads into danger against the greatest odds of his career!

Retailers may make order adjustments on ACTION COMICS #847 (DEC060189) now through February 8.

The ACTION COMICS #847 3-D EDITION (DEC060190) has been cancelled. ACTION COMICS #848 and ACTION COMICS #848 3-D EDITION will be solicited in the January Previews (Volume XVII #1) and are scheduled to arrive in stores on March 28.

[Mike_D202]

so...theres gonna be an issue in continuation with the Donnor series thats NOT gonna be written by Donnor?

[X Knight]

actually that bit about Zod is very interesting, and quite similar to how I'd envision Zod in a new Superman origin movie. Especially having a backstory tied with Jor-El as well as a fundamentalist/extremist/genocidal view.

Indeed, Donner should have consulted with Singer and incorporated those ideas into Superman Returns.......imo, that would have been a heck of alot more interesting than SR......

[sethcohen]

as much as i hate the zod/chris kent story from donner/johns im loving the hell out of the bizarro world story... why couldnt they just do that and leave the whole zod story alone... we all know DC is going to introduce a new zod in about 5 years or so anyway...

[Michael Corleone]

Ugh, his complete disregard for previous continuity is sickening.


You're saying that as if there is a continuity to follow in the first place.

[Michael Corleone]

Their run has been good. The delays and lack of a functional continuity for the Superman character is hurting things. I could care less what Zod this is, if only they told me where everything fits. They need to make a choice in the near future as to if the continuity is rebooted, stays the same or minor changes. This mishmash of what exists now is going to implode on itself in a matter of a year. I know the writers like the multiverse because of the writing possibilities but it's made the continuity of several characters incomprehensible.

[The Leaguer]

I was saying that as if Johns didn't suck ass. But he does. Johns sucks ass.

[Captain Clown]

The Bizarro World Story is alright, nothing great though.

The whole Donner writing Action Comics thing has pretty much been a big disappointment.