Goku Vs. Silver Surfer!

[Phenomenal]

Alright this is Goku (Anime) with Super Saiya-jin 1-4 vs. the Silver Surfer who takes this battle?

[deathshead2]

Holy crap not agian.

[Phenomenal]

This has been done before?

[deathshead2]

Well yes and no. Most of the time its goku vs all of the marvel universe. And most of the times DBZ fans say the weridest ways for goku to win. And thses kinds of threads never end well.

[Phenomenal]

Well, this is the Official Surfer vs. Goku thread!

[Tsunulia]

Alucard kills them both, destroys the Dragon Balls, kills Dende so no more can be made, then he kills all the DB cast so all memory of the Dragon Balls fades away so Goku can't come back and will actually stay in Other World for awhile. And all will be right with the hype.

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j69/ryu14/hellsing-mangaspec2_edit-kenzeitak.jpg


Don't be fooled, I luff DB and DBZ :up:

[Corinthian™]

Well, this is the Official Surfer vs. Goku thread!
no it's not

and some mod please close this before it degrades into a pissing contest please

[Jplaya2023]

Alright this is Goku (Anime) with Super Saiya-jin 1-4 vs. the Silver Surfer who takes this battle?

goku using anything higher than kaoken x 3 is overkill for this fight

[Saved]

Goku would win but Barely. He'd force Silver Surfer to use up his power and need to relax. Or Surfer would win by betting the hell outta Goku, but every other dude ho does that to Goku still doesn't beat him so...

[Jplaya2023]

Goku would win but Barely. He'd force Silver Surfer to use up his power and need to relax. Or Surfer would win by betting the hell outta Goku, but every other dude ho does that to Goku still doesn't beat him so...

without the surfboard, silver surfer is iceman

[Saved]

without the surfboard, silver surfer is icemanLOL so true. I saw Iceman fighting in the Marvel Ultimate Alliance trailer and thought it was Surfer for a minute!

[deathshead2]

You see what I mean.

[Keollyn]

Haven't you gotten the memo?

"We need less Dragonball threads!"

[HULKSTER'04]

The Surfer will win no contest!

[November Rain]

let's see. surfer destroys moon and goku's tail, so he's only a ssj 3, then laughs when goku runs out of energy in 30 mins. Then spits on his face which causes it to explode.

tada

[Mr Sparkle]

Pikachu, with moral support from ash kills both the surfer and Goku.

[Gotenks]

I now see why this is so annoying when i first started here at the hype Goku vs threads were so fun, but now....*sigh*

[param]

Wow, did the TC just mentionn 'anime'?

This is superpowered compared to the manga. I think Ssj3, or FPSsj3 Goku should be a good fight for Surfer. Ssj4 would turn in Goku's favour.

[Jplaya2023]

let's see. surfer destroys moon and goku's tail, so he's only a ssj 3, then laughs when goku runs out of energy in 30 mins. Then spits on his face which causes it to explode.

tada

Um goku no longer needs the moon to go ssj4 and his tail his hidden inside his clothes. not to mention surfer would have no clue about that ability in the first lpace

[Warhammer]

...and Goku would have no clue about Silver Surfer and his powers like Cosmic energy and Matter Manipulation. :o

[Phenomenal]

...and Goku would have no clue about Silver Surfer and his powers like Cosmic energy and Matter Manipulation. :o


And... Silver Surfer has no clue about Goku's power like Ki energy and Insane combat speeds.:o

[deathshead2]

And... Silver Surfer has no clue about Goku's power like Ki energy and Insane combat speeds.:oAnd goku would have no idea silver surfer wears no pants and rides a surfboard in space. Lets see goku do that.

[Warhammer]

And... Silver Surfer has no clue about Goku's power like Ki energy and Insane combat speeds.:o

I never said Goku or Silver Surfer would win.
I am just pointing out what the Surfer can do that many DBZ fanboys ignorantly don't know.

I already know what Goku can do, being a huge fan of it a while ago.

[Gotenks]

edit

[Gotenks]

And goku would have no idea silver surfer wears no pants and rides a surfboard in space. Lets see goku do that.


Well I would not be surprised if he did seeing that he is not ashamed to go pantsless.

[deathshead2]

Yeah but he is pantsless in space!

[November Rain]

Um goku no longer needs the moon to go ssj4 and his tail his hidden inside his clothes. not to mention surfer would have no clue about that ability in the first lpacewhat the hell are you talking about?

yeah of course, one of the greatest telepathic minds can't read the mind of a monkey descendant. gotcha...

:up:

[Gotenks]

Well if you think about it Goku can also read minds.

[narutofan236]

how would he gotenks?

[Tsunulia]

Ya, whatever happened to everybody's telepathic ability. I remember that they were able to do that in the saiyan saga, then they never really did it again.

[Gotenks]

how would he gotenks?

Goku read the mind of Krillin when he first got to Namek.

[Sloth7d]

Alucard kills them both, destroys the Dragon Balls, kills Dende so no more can be made, then he kills all the DB cast so all memory of the Dragon Balls fades away so Goku can't come back and will actually stay in Other World for awhile. And all will be right with the hype.

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j69/ryu14/hellsing-mangaspec2_edit-kenzeitak.jpg


Don't be fooled, I luff DB and DBZ :up:
Please... Alacard(or should I say dracula) couldn't even kill himself.

[Corinthian™]

Please... Alacard(or should I say dracula) couldn't even kill himself.
that's becuase, uhm, he's so badass:huh:

[Sloth7d]

I know. It was a joke.

[SSJ4_Mikael]

Ok, back on topic:
Silversurfer vs SSJ4 Gokou... Hmm hard one.
Speed: Surfer, whom can fly billions of lightyears in seconds.
Strenght: Gokou
Cosmic power/ Chi: Both can take down a solar system.

I have to say that Gokou will take this one... Unless it's the uni-powered version which is 50times more powerful than the original one.

[Jplaya2023]

Ok, back on topic:
Silversurfer vs SSJ4 Gokou... Hmm hard one.
Speed: Surfer, whom can fly billions of lightyears in seconds.
Strenght: Gokou
Cosmic power/ Chi: Both can take down a solar system.

I have to say that Gokou will take this one... Unless it's the uni-powered version which is 50times more powerful than the original one.

goku is faster

[Warhammer]

New battle, please. :)

[Corinthian™]

New battle, please. :)
no! no more battles!:cmad:

they make Jesus cry:csad:

[Gotenks]

I think he thought this was the eastern vs western thread.

[Corinthian™]

I think he thought this was the eastern vs western thread.
either way, no more battles

Or do you want to make Jesus cry, you ****ing nazis?!?!

****ing NAZIS!:cmad:

[Gotenks]

Well yes, I wish it was just Dragonballz, Bleach, and Naruto discussion threads, but its not so there will be more battles if you like it or not. I can't do a thing about it.

[Warhammer]

no! no more battles!:cmad:

they make Jesus cry:csad:

Whoops. :(

[Corinthian™]

Well yes, I wish it was just Dragonballz, Bleach, and Naruto discussion threads, but its not so there will be more battles if you like it or not. I can't do a thing about it.
http://www.neowin.net/forum/uploads/post-48-1092965234.jpg

:down:csad:

[Gotenks]

....No teeth, but a full grown beard.

[Corinthian™]

....No teeth, but a full grown beard.
he's Jesus:huh:

[SSJ4_Mikael]

goku is faster
My ass he's faster... SSJ Gotenkusu was barrely lightspeed.
Silver Surfer can move to a Galaxy billions of lightyears away in an instant.

[OMEGAVEGETTO]

My ass he's faster... SSJ Gotenkusu was barrely lightspeed.
Silver Surfer can move to a Galaxy billions of lightyears away in an instant.

surfer is faster moving in a straight line. plus goku has i.t. therefore he can move that fast as well. but in a fight, goku is faster and smarter.

[Corinthian™]

people should stop talking in order to stop making this thread's IQ drop... and right now it's on the negatives, people!

[Ultra-Herald9]

surfer is faster moving in a straight line. plus goku has i.t. therefore he can move that fast as well. but in a fight, goku is faster and smarter.

And Surfer has time-travel so he could be there before i.t. And Surfer has a reaction time that would embarass most DBZ characters although he vary rarely needs to dodge anything.

[Ultra-Herald9]

Um goku no longer needs the moon to go ssj4 and his tail his hidden inside his clothes. not to mention surfer would have no clue about that ability in the first lpace

Dude Surfer could easily scan Goku's biological make-up.

[Ultra-Herald9]

Comparing Surfer to Goku is stupid. Surfers powers make Martial Arts on even Goku Level look useless. Silver Surfer has defeated the Champion with ease and that guy knows every fighting technique in exsistence not to mention he has limitless strength. Remember how everyone was afraid of Dabura's spit? Surfer could easily replicate that effect.

Considering that Surfer has flown through Stars and Black holes without even flinching and has Near total control over Matter and Energy I wouldn't even call this fight fair.

[Warhammer]

:up:

[Gotenks]

Comparing Surfer to Goku is stupid.

I know Goku could win with both hands behind his back!

[Sloth7d]

I know Goku could win with both hands behind his back!:up:

[Ultra-Herald9]

I know Goku could win with both hands behind his back!

Dude that was clever lol!:o











c'mon dude are you even gonna try to bring some facts?

[deathshead2]

SS wins he wears no pants and can breath in space goku can't do that ha.

[Ultra-Herald9]

:up:

You guys have a huge anti-comic thing going on..........its actually kinda sad. Saying that there is a charcter more powerful than Goku is like blasphemy to you.

[enterthemadness]

Goku. Don't know much about the silver surfer, but could he really survive a sprit bomb or any other energy blast moves Goku can do? (I haven't paid attention to DBZ for about three years, so I'm rusty on the move list.)

[Sloth7d]

You guys have a huge anti-comic thing going on..........its actually kinda sad. Saying that there is a charcter more powerful than Goku is like blasphemy to you.
No I love comics.
I have since I was only five years old.
And there are several characters stronger than Goku, but most of them are omnipotent.

[Sloth7d]

Goku. Don't know much about the silver surfer, but could he really survive a sprit bomb or any other energy blast moves Goku can do? (I haven't paid attention to DBZ for about three years, so I'm rusty on the move list.)
If Goku tried to use the spirit bomb the surfer would deatomize him while he was charging up.
The best way Goku could win is by going SSj and dealing blows to the surfer faster than he can respond. And he'd have to battle at high speeds the entire duration. Which IS possible for Goku ofcourse.

[Ultra-Herald9]

If Goku tried to use the spirit bomb the surfer would deatomize him while he was charging up.
The best way Goku could win is by going SSj and dealing blows to the surfer faster than he can respond. And he'd have to battle at high speeds the entire duration. Which IS possible for Goku ofcourse.

But you forget SS has made energy barriers strong enoughto withstand the blows of the Savage Hulk with ease and his Durabilty body can withstand black holes with ease so Goku would have to at least be SSJ2 to really even stun Surfer and if his attacks become too bothersome he'd just project a field of anti-matter from his body in a radial blast.

[Sloth7d]

Good point. He'd probably need SSj2 or more to contend with the Surfer.

[Gotenks]

SS wins he wears no pants and can breath in space goku can't do that ha.

You got me there.

[Gotenks]

You guys have a huge anti-comic thing going on..........its actually kinda sad. Saying that there is a charcter more powerful than Goku is like blasphemy to you.

I will admit I dont know all there is about comics, but I know enough.
I never said that goku wins over all. I know he can be beaten.

[Warhammer]

No I love comics.
I have since I was only five years old.
And there are several characters stronger than Goku, but most of them are omnipotent.

Not to start a fight, but you yourself said, one time, that you are DBZ biased, and I wasnt mad because you admitted it.

Remember?

[Sloth7d]

I am biased, but I still have a love for american comicbooks. I must have spent over 70 bucks on the civilwar crossovers alone. But I still hope you don't hate me because of my stronger passion for DBZ, because I don't hate western comics at all.

[Warhammer]

No need for hate.
This is a forum with different opinions.

:up: :)

[Ultra-Herald9]

No need for hate.
This is a forum with different opinions.

:up: :)

exactly. GOTENKS..........:woot:

[Gotenks]

exactly. GOTENKS..........:woot:
:huh:

[Warhammer]

No need for me to hate Gotenks or no need for Gotenks to hate? :confused:

[tyvec88]

The Silver Surfer would win easily! :)

[Ultra-Herald9]

No need for me to hate Gotenks or no need for Gotenks to hate? :confused:

Erase the Hate Gotenks:csad: ..........

[Gotenks]

I have no idea what you guys are talking about.
Please explain.

[Sloth7d]

:huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh:

[Jplaya2023]

The Silver Surfer would win easily! :)

baka!!......

[Ultra-Herald9]

:huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh:

Is my joke about Gotenks's sig flying over everyone's head or was it just a bad joke cause i'm starting to think its the latter.:csad:

[Ultra-Herald9]

baka!!......

SUPER-BIAST TIME!!!!! Seriously how about less fake japanese and more facts to support your opinion.

[Phenomenal]

tyvec88[/B]The Silver Surfer would win easily! .

How about The Surfer getting Frequently KO'd throughout his career and you say it is going to be an easy win for the Surfer:rolleyes: I think not.

[Jplaya2023]

How about The Surfer getting Frequently KO'd throughout his career and you say it is going to be an easy win for the Surfer:rolleyes: I think not.

yo you from that naruto site right??

show them this thread and watch how mad they get


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25028&page=6

[Ultra-Herald9]

yo you from that naruto site right??

show them this thread and watch how mad they get


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25028&page=6


How will this make us mad?

[Ultra-Herald9]

How about The Surfer getting Frequently KO'd throughout his career and you say it is going to be an easy win for the Surfer:rolleyes: I think not.

Frequently? Of all the comics i've read I only remember him getting ko'd twice not counting his fights with Thanos. Each of these times he was hit by a character WELL over class 100 strength and he even didn't want to fight.

[Warhammer]

Phenomenol, (No bad blood, but) I think you just don't know enough about SS to make a good point.

I'm not implying that Goku or Surfer would win, btw.

[Gotenks]

I thought you already said silver surfer wins this?

[Warhammer]

Yes, but I am not implying in my post above that Surfer would win.
If I implyed it, somebody would call me biased.

Phenomenol just cuts down Surfer like he is nothing to Goku.
I think Goku is alot stronger than Surfer, but ability wise, not really.

[Ultra-Herald9]

Yes, but I am not implying in my post above that Surfer would win.
If I implyed it, somebody would call me biased.

Phenomenol just cuts down Surfer like he is nothing to Goku.
I think Goku is alot stronger than Surfer, but ability wise, not really.

Stronger how?

[Gotenks]

Yes, but I am not implying in my post above that Surfer would win.
If I implyed it, somebody would call me biased.

Phenomenol just cuts down Surfer like he is nothing to Goku.
I think Goku is alot stronger than Surfer, but ability wise, not really.

I understand.

[Jplaya2023]

Goku is alot stronger than Surfer.


All that matter

[Warhammer]

Stronger how?

All that matter

When I said stronger, I meant Goku was stronger than Surfer, physical strength-wise.

The Surfer easily exceeds Goku's speed, energy, battle speed, endurance, and abilities such as Matter Manipulation, Molecule Augmentation, many different types of energy that easily match and/or exceed the Big Bang Kamehameha, Time travel, and Limited telepathy. Also, Surfer blocks all telepathy from entering his mind.

Look him up:

http://marvel.com/universe/Silver_Surfer
http://www.marveldatabase.com/wiki/index.php/Silver_Surfer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_surfer

[Ultra-Herald9]

When I said stronger, I meant Goku was stronger than Surfer, physical strength-wise.

The Surfer easily exceeds Goku's speed, energy, battle speed, endurance, and abilities such as Matter Manipulation, Molecule Augmentation, many different types of energy that easily match and/or exceed the Big Bang Kamehameha, Time travel, and Limited telepathy. Also, Surfer blocks all telepathy from entering his mind.

Look him up:

http://marvel.com/universe/Silver_Surfer
http://www.marveldatabase.com/wiki/index.php/Silver_Surfer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_surfer


It says in all these that he can absorb cosmic energy to augment his strength to incalculable levels..........I think that gives him the advantage in strength also.

[Warhammer]

I thought the Power Cosmic only gave Surfer the strength level that rivals enraged Savage Hulk?

If it's incalcuable like Galactus, then Goku seriously has no chance.

[Ultra-Herald9]

I thought the Power Cosmic only gave Surfer the strength level that rivals enraged Savage Hulk?

If it's incalcuable like Galactus, then Goku seriously has no chance.

Yeah I was intially confused about the whole power cosmic thing until I realized cosmic energies are the power cosmic.They are the fundemental energies that hold the universe together and his body was changed by Galactus to be able to manipulate these energies thus he has the power cosmic.

[Ultra-Herald9]

This fight isn't really fair. Silver Surfer is just way to powerful.........


Even SSj4 Goku was having trouble with the Ice and Fire Dragon and the pollution dragon also. Silver Surfer can EASILY replicate all thier powers!

[Warhammer]

I think Surfer is out of Goku's league, too.

[Jplaya2023]

This fight isn't really fair. Silver Surfer is just way to powerful.........


Even SSj4 Goku was having trouble with the Ice and Fire Dragon and the pollution dragon also. Silver Surfer can EASILY replicate all thier powers!

Um if Surfer used those moves goku would be immune because he already seen the moves and they wont work on him twice.

[Ultra-Herald9]

Um if Surfer used those moves goku would be immune because he already seen the moves and they wont work on him twice.

Man I love to see you Fanboys hold on to your lasts shreds of hope when your favorite character is clearly outclassed. This statement of Goku not being able to get hit by the same move twice is hardcore HYPERBOLE. If Goku couldn't be hit by the same move twice he'd be invincible. Its not like if Goku sees a move one time he can nullify it instantly but he was merely stating that once he gets that grasp of how a move works it becomes difficult to make him fall for the same move again.

You fanboys are really annoying sometimes. You take stuff out of context and apply it to back up hyour opinions when your arguments are faltering. Goku does NOT become stronger after every attack he only gets stronger after recovering from a fierce near-death battle. If Goku couldn't be hit with the same move twice then how come he gets owned so bad by Cell jrs and Buu. He's seen energy blasts yet they still hurt him!

Plus you say it like these are the only things Silver Surfer has got in his aresenal. Silver Surfer has the freakin POWER COSMIC! That means he has the ability to manipulate ANY force of nature and defy any law of physics on a whim. He could just create a black hole or hit Goku with anti-matter or he could just ***** up Goku's biology and make him unable to sustain SSJ forms.

[CrypticOne]

Alright this is Goku (Anime) with Super Saiya-jin 1-4 vs. the Silver Surfer who takes this battle?

Goku would take this.

[Ultra-Herald9]

Goku would take this.

Do you kow anything about Silver Surfer? Better yet do you know any thing about marvel?

[Warhammer]

edit

[Warhammer]

Um if Surfer used those moves goku would be immune because he already seen the moves and they wont work on him twice.

That's not true.
Where did you hear that stupid crap from? :confused:

[Jplaya2023]

That's not true.
Where did you hear that stupid crap from? :confused:

he said it in GT that the same technique wont work on him twice

[Warhammer]

he said it in GT that the same technique wont work on him twice

Oh boy.
Does it say it on the Japanese version?

[Sloth7d]

Oh boy.
Does it say it on the Japanese version?
It does, but why anyone is even refferencing Gt is a mystery to me.:huh:

[Warhammer]

Wait a minute.
Why was I even asking Jplaya about that. :confused: :(

The Surfer wouldn't need a second time for any of his powers.
If he happens to miss, and we count GT Goku saying that, then Surfer can easily use another move.

[Warhammer]

It does, but why anyone is even refferencing Gt is a mystery to me.:huh:

I don't know either, but I guess to be fair, we have to? :confused:

[Sloth7d]

I don't know either, but I guess to be fair, we have to? :confused:
I don't think so. Goku having enough energy to blow up planets makes it more than fair for him.
But if anyone wants to refer to a non-canon and inconsistent part of dragonball that could have never happened be my guest.
But in the end, even if they prove their point, someone could just argue its non-canon.

[CBG]

Well, it's anime Goku as stated in the first post, with use of his SSJ 1 to 4, so GT can be used here, I suppose. . .

[Warhammer]

True.

[Jplaya2023]

Goku at the end of GT is basically omnipotent and becomes GOD. He has the power of the dragonballs and can grant wishes. If we go by movies remember the GT special took place 100 years in the future and goku trained everyday in those 100 years so the amount of power he has is unthinkable

[CBG]

Goku at the end of GT is basically omnipotent and becomes GOD. He has the power of the dragonballs and can grant wishes. If we go by movies remember the GT special took place 100 years in the future and goku trained everyday in those 100 years so the amount of power he has is unthinkable

Not really. Fans assume Goku merged with the Dragon Balls became omnipotent. In reality, no one knows what the Dragon Balls do for Goku when he merged with them.

[Jplaya2023]

Not really. Fans assume Goku merged with the Dragon Balls became omnipotent. In reality, no one knows what the Dragon Balls do for Goku when he merged with them.

If you dont think he became omnipotent you can atleast agree with me on he being able to make wishes using the power of the dragonballs. So he could wish himself for immortality. Wil u atelast agree on that?

[CBG]

Goku asking for immortality? It's not really in his nature and character to ask for immortality, nor wish for it.

With regards to Goku granting wishes due to his merging with the Dragon Balls (going with that assumption), he could grant more wishes than what Shenron and Porunga were capable of, due to his power. However, I doubt that he would be omnipotent -- Goku's not infinitely powerful.

Furthermore, didn't Goku merge with the Dragon Balls for a reason? To prevent wishes being granted? To erase the negative influence upon the Dragon Balls? So, why would he use them for wishes, if wishes built up negative energy?

In addition, I don't think that Goku merged with the Dragon Balls is omnipotent. No one knows what merging of the Dragon Balls would do to Goku exactly.

[Warhammer]

Even if Goku is immortal, that doesn't guarantee him a win.
Garlic Jr. is immortal, but he isn't gonna beat SSJ Goku unless he sucks him into the Dead Zone, thus, winning in a way.

[Jplaya2023]

Even if Goku is immortal, that doesn't guarantee him a win.
Garlic Jr. is immortal, but he isn't gonna beat SSJ Goku unless he sucks him into the Dead Zone, thus, winning in a way.

You're forgetting goku can travel through any dimensions garlic jr cannot.

[Warhammer]

You're forgetting goku can travel through any dimensions garlic jr cannot.

You're right about that. :up:

[Jplaya2023]

For those that have a question about goku at the end of gt or goku fighting in GT. I fonud some classic post from the homey guyverj that touches on the subject. Along with myself guyver's post are canon

This is regarding to Silver Surfer, Dr Doom, Doomsday, Dr Strange, and Thanos FIghting goku

LOL!!! What a load of rubbish

Goku would beat the surfer,he's faster,better fighting skill and overall more powerful. Vegeta could blow up,a planet with his little finger when his power level 21,000. Goku's power level is around 96,million. So goku is 46 times stronger than when he could destroy a planet. One planet destroying blast and surfers down. Surfers durability isn't greater than a planet sorry.

As much as I love doom again Goku would destroy the whole country of latveria,Doom goes down.

Goku teleports Doomsday into a black hole and leaves him there,doomsday goes down.

Dr strange,now that is a tough one Idont think Goku comeup against someone who does magic, but the hulk has broken stranges bands of cytorrak and Goku is more powerful tyan the hulk. All strange could do with the hulk is teleport him somewhere else. That won't work on goku he would jus teleport back again. Strange goes down.

Thanos goes down for the same reason I gave for surfer.

Everybody makes a big deal about goku's intelligence,its not really his fault he didnt go to school. Anyway he's a fighting genius,thats all that counts. He's like Bruce lee with the power cosmic.How can any one compete with that?

Guyver J in response to accusations that superman can beat goku

The difference being that pre crsis supes WASN'T omnipotent. He was ridiculously powerful but he wasn't Omnipotent or Omniscent.

Goku at the end of the dragonball Saga was basically GOD.

He could teleport, Travel multiples times the speed of light and Fight at that speed(greatest Martial artist in the Universe), Could destroy an entire solar system with one hand, Durability greater than that of a planet and that was BEFORE he became one with the Dragonballs granting him Immortality and the powers of a GOD. In case you didn't know the Dragonballs (shenron) power can pretty much grant virtually any wish even once recreating the Earth when it was destroyed by BUU and that Power is part of Goku now.

So no Supes aint beating GOKU no matter what you say. Im not saying Goku is a better character than Supes ( I don't think he is at all) but I know Gokus power which you underestimate greatly.



Guyverj On goku fighting Galactus

Im not sure that Goku could beat Galactus who is nigh on Omnipotent. Im not sure just how GODLY Goku actually is its never full explained.

All I know is at the end of the DB story Goku is around 160 years old and immortal, Knowing Goku he's probably trained for all that time and is probably 500 times ( if not more,) more powerful than when he last fought on DBGT.

Guyver spitting more facts on goku fighting superman

I know about pre crisis supes powers (ive been on one of those sites before), but being really strong and really fast isn't omnipotent. Alot of his other powers are a non factor like heat vision,super-hypnosis, super-ventriloquism,traveling through time etc. A fight between end of Dragonball saga Goku and pre crisis supes would boil down to brute power and fighting skill at the end of the day. Even if we agreed that strength and speed between the two are equal. Goku enegy manipulating abilities are faaaaaaaaaaaaaaar in excess of pre crisis supes and lets not even talk about fighting skill.

Think about this, frieza in his first form could atomise a planet with one finger, at the end of DBGT Goku is 200 times more powerful than that. THEN he becomes one with Dragonballs and THEN the story is fast forwarded 100 years into the future when Goku visits his ancestor, considering how:

A) Goku trains and fights everyday (thats all he does)
B) Sayans get stronger after every battle
C) He's been training everday for the past 100 years,learning martial arts from the greatest masters alive and dead in his universe.

and D) From the the Beginning of DBZ and the end of DBGT his power started off at around 330 and at the end it was around 96,000,000. The space of time between was around 30 years.

It only took him 30 odd years to increase his power by that much. How much do you think its increased in the past 100 years?

[CBG]

I can respond to each of these posts. It'll take me time on a laptop (and a dying battery), but I will.

[Jplaya2023]

Guyver on lobo and superman fighting goku

Not really Goku would transport him into a black hole or move at 20 times the speed of light and rip his head off or he would take away his immortality. Either way game over. Same with supes.

BTW since Supes gets his power from a star,its hardly surprising that he would survive an explosion of solar energy, whats soo stupid is when a star goes Nova it becomes a red giant so technically he should die when the star explodes.

SS4 Goku fused with Dragonballs = Omnipotent version of Bruce Lee
Post crisis supes = Not omnipotent
Pre crisis supes = Near omnipotent


Guyver on superman's durability

Plus Supermans durability would have to be greater than a planet to survive a charged up Kamahamaha wave and considering how a mere nuke messed him up pretty badly, (although he did survive) a blast from Goku would destroy him.

More guyver on goku being omnipotent and superman not

Bottom line is Goku is omnipotent, Supes is not.

Goku is immortal, supes is not.

Goku gets stronger after every battle, supes does not.

Goku is has at least 160 years of training and experience fighting the most powerful beings in his universe (by himself I might add),supes does not.

Goku is the most accomplished martial artist in ALL of fiction,supes is not.

Goku can blow up a planet with his little toe supes cannot.

Goku has durability greater than a planet,supes does not.

Thats about as basic and clear as I can put it.

Considering how Cell held back a planet sized asteroid with his index finger and goku is probably a 100 times stronger (if not more) then how can you say that goku can't hurt supes physically?

[Warhammer]

We can only assume that Goku was a god after possibly absorbing the dragon ball's power. Seeing that facts trump assumptions, As much as I love Goku, I don't believe that Goku became a god. If there is no proof that he became a god, all of Guyver's posts that say that Goku is omnipotent (etc.) is crap.

[Jplaya2023]

I can respond to each of these posts. It'll take me time on a laptop (and a dying battery), but I will.

No need to him and I post's are canon. Get some sleep let the laptop recharge and come back on sunday

[Warhammer]

I can respond to each of these posts. It'll take me time on a laptop (and a dying battery), but I will.

That's gonna take a while. :o
Goku never became a god anyway, so that already disproves much of Guyverjay's posts.

[Jplaya2023]

That's gonna take a while. :o
Goku never became a god anyway, so that already disproves much of Guyverjay's posts.

Guyver and I's post are canon

[Warhammer]

Guyver and I's post are canon

...Yeah, you and Guyvers posts are s***. :o

[Jplaya2023]

...Yeah, you and Guyvers posts are s***. :o

no canon

[Warhammer]

Yeah, whatever.

[Jplaya2023]

Guyver on SS and Superman fighting goku

Goku the boy at the VERY beginning was at 10 (around twice the power of an average man). His oozaru form at the beginning was 100. His power at his first budokai (he was still a child) was 180. More than enough to kick most super heroes asses. Piccollo with around 400 blew up the moon with one hand you know.

SS cannot absorb close or any near to unlimited energies. If he absorbs too much he WILL EXPLODE. This has been addressed in the comics when the surfer became a living bomb. Surfer is NOT a good fighter at all , hes powerful but he's had his ass given to him by thor and morg. This is roughly 5 minutes after morg had been give the power cosmic and the more experienced surfer got his ass whupped. He had to run along and get backup. Add to the fact while the surfer can FLY well faster than light, his fighting speed and reflexs are nowhere near that level. Another reason why thor sticks his hammer up surfers ass. Thor is a hardly a speedster. Also one of babidis men (yakkon I think) tried the energy absorbtion trick and goku intentinally sent a massive power surge straight into him blowing him to kingdom come. He did this without even trying, much to vegetas chagrin.

Postcrisis wouldn't even beat a level ONE super sayan. Everyone is forgeting that goku is an expert in martal arts. Example make bruce lee kryptonian and put him up against superman. Whats going to happen? Sueps is going to get ass raped plain and simple. Strentgh doesn't mean jack **** in martial arts,its all about technique and superman (even though he has some limited training from mongul) has no technique what so ever. Its just punch punch. Any martial atist worth his salt is going to block and reverse the punches and smack him one in the face.

I'm even adding the fcat supes virtually NEVER uses speed fighting because he's not very good at it. Goku alwayts fight at inhuman speeds. Supes is just outclassed.

Pre crisis supes, now that is a different story. He was a tough son of a gun but still has the same weaknesses as the current supes. No technique. He soooo used to standing there and folding his arm that goku would blow him up with a galaxy destroying blast. He may survive he may not, dunno. Either way put in End of GT goku and pre crsis supes gets sent to the next dimension:)

[CBG]

Guyver on SS and Superman fighting goku

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guyverjay
Goku the boy at the VERY beginning was at 10 (around twice the power of an average man). His oozaru form at the beginning was 100. His power at his first budokai (he was still a child) was 180. More than enough to kick most super heroes asses. Piccollo with around 400 blew up the moon with one hand you know.

SS cannot absorb close or any near to unlimited energies. If he absorbs too much he WILL EXPLODE. This has been addressed in the comics when the surfer became a living bomb. Surfer is NOT a good fighter at all , hes powerful but he's had his ass given to him by thor and morg. This is roughly 5 minutes after morg had been give the power cosmic and the more experienced surfer got his ass whupped. He had to run along and get backup. Add to the fact while the surfer can FLY well faster than light, his fighting speed and reflexs are nowhere near that level. Another reason why thor sticks his hammer up surfers ass. Thor is a hardly a speedster. Also one of babidis men (yakkon I think) tried the energy absorbtion trick and goku intentinally sent a massive power surge straight into him blowing him to kingdom come. He did this without even trying, much to vegetas chagrin.

Postcrisis wouldn't even beat a level ONE super sayan. Everyone is forgeting that goku is an expert in martal arts. Example make bruce lee kryptonian and put him up against superman. Whats going to happen? Sueps is going to get ass raped plain and simple. Strentgh doesn't mean jack **** in martial arts,its all about technique and superman (even though he has some limited training from mongul) has no technique what so ever. Its just punch punch. Any martial atist worth his salt is going to block and reverse the punches and smack him one in the face.

I'm even adding the fcat supes virtually NEVER uses speed fighting because he's not very good at it. Goku alwayts fight at inhuman speeds. Supes is just outclassed.

Pre crisis supes, now that is a different story. He was a tough son of a gun but still has the same weaknesses as the current supes. No technique. He soooo used to standing there and folding his arm that goku would blow him up with a galaxy destroying blast. He may survive he may not, dunno. Either way put in End of GT goku and pre crsis supes gets sent to the next dimension

Well, what do you know. Some arguements are shared over the net after all. . .

[Warhammer]

- Surfer can use Matter Manipulation on Goku. He can also use the Power Cosmic and raise his strength passed Goku's strength. He doesn't need to absorb any energy. Surfer also doesn't need quick battle speed to win. He is only an average fighter, but his energy abilites more than make it up.

- Again, we don't know if Goku was a god, so "End of GT goku and pre crsis supes gets sent to the next dimension" is bulls***.

Jplaya, stop being Guyver's lackey by reposting his posts. :o

[CBG]

For those that have a question about goku at the end of gt or goku fighting in GT. I fonud some classic post from the homey guyverj that touches on the subject. Along with myself guyver's post are canon

Alrighty then.

This is regarding to Silver Surfer, Dr Doom, Doomsday, Dr Strange, and Thanos FIghting goku

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guyverjay
LOL!!! What a load of rubbish

Goku would beat the surfer,he's faster,better fighting skill and overall more powerful.

Faster, debatable. Better skill at h2h combat, I would have to agree. More powerful, debatable.

Vegeta could blow up,a planet with his little finger when his power level 21,000.

If you mean the filler where he and Nappa stopped by a planet, and destroyed it in the end with two fingers, non-canon. His Galick Gun took awhile to charge before he released it.

Goku's power level is around 96,million. So goku is 46 times stronger than when he could destroy a planet.

Speculation. No numerical values in relation to power levels were given after the Frieza saga. Toriyama abandoned them. 96 million is speculation.46 times stronger is speculation.

One planet destroying blast and surfers down. Surfers durability isn't greater than a planet sorry.

Black hole > planet destroyer

SS withstood black holes before. He had flown through them before, and can produce a black hole, which can easily destroy a planet.

As much as I love doom again Goku would destroy the whole country of latveria,Doom goes down.

I don't see how Dr. Doom is really a contestant. Sure, he has an Adamantium suit, high tech, knowledge in magic, Doombots, and a time machine. Best shot I can see for Doom is going back in time and killing Goku as an infant. But really, I don't see how Dr. Doom is even considered a contender in a battle against Goku.

Goku teleports Doomsday into a black hole and leaves him there,doomsday goes down.

Impractical. Goku needs air to breathe -- he sure ain't going to breathe in space.

Pre-Infinite Crisis, before gaining sentience, it took Entropy, the End of Time, to kill Doomsday for good (prior to Zero Hour, and the entire reboot of the timeline).

Though, as seen in Infinite Crisis #6, I can see DD KO'd by Goku.

Dr strange,now that is a tough one Idont think Goku comeup against someone who does magic, but the hulk has broken stranges bands of cytorrak and Goku is more powerful tyan the hulk. All strange could do with the hulk is teleport him somewhere else. That won't work on goku he would jus teleport back again. Strange goes down.

Depends whether Strange is on his game or not. But at his peak, Strange is one freaking powerful mofo. He's not Sorcerer Supreme for nothing.

Thanos goes down for the same reason I gave for surfer.

Don't know much about Thanos to rebut.

Everybody makes a big deal about goku's intelligence,its not really his fault he didnt go to school. Anyway he's a fighting genius,thats all that counts. He's like Bruce lee with the power cosmic.How can any one compete with that?

Not Power Cosmic, really. Able to manipulate ki to produce blasts of destructive power, at the barest basics of description. Power Cosmic can accomplish more.

[CBG]

Guyver J in response to accusations that superman can beat goku

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guyverjay
The difference being that pre crsis supes WASN'T omnipotent. He was ridiculously powerful but he wasn't Omnipotent or Omniscent.

Goku at the end of the dragonball Saga was basically GOD.

People assume that end of DB saga, Goku becomes God/omnipotent. It's assumption, not really fact.

He could teleport, Travel multiples times the speed of light and Fight at that speed(greatest Martial artist in the Universe),

It's debatable whether Goku and the other warriors can travel and fight at lightspeed, least FTL. The lack of sonic booms contradicts the implied lightspeed.

Could destroy an entire solar system with one hand, Durability greater than that of a planet

Debatable.

and that was BEFORE he became one with the Dragonballs granting him Immortality and the powers of a GOD.

Assumption. Speculation.

In case you didn't know the Dragonballs (shenron) power can pretty much grant virtually any wish even once recreating the Earth when it was destroyed by BUU and that Power is part of Goku now.

Incorrect. There's a limit as to what Shenron can grant. He couldn't kill the Saiyans back in the Saiyan saga, nor could he make 18 human.

So no Supes aint beating GOKU no matter what you say. Im not saying Goku is a better character than Supes ( I don't think he is at all) but I know Gokus power which you underestimate greatly.

It's a debate that won't be certainly settled for another 3 years minimum.

Guyverj On goku fighting Galactus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guyverjay
Im not sure that Goku could beat Galactus who is nigh on Omnipotent. Im not sure just how GODLY Goku actually is its never full explained.

Against Galactus? You've got to be kidding me.

All I know is at the end of the DB story Goku is around 160 years old and immortal, Knowing Goku he's probably trained for all that time and is probably 500 times ( if not more,) more powerful than when he last fought on DBGT.

So?

Guyver spitting more facts on goku fighting superman

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guyverjay
I know about pre crisis supes powers (ive been on one of those sites before), but being really strong and really fast isn't omnipotent. Alot of his other powers are a non factor like heat vision,super-hypnosis, super-ventriloquism,traveling through time etc. A fight between end of Dragonball saga Goku and pre crisis supes would boil down to brute power and fighting skill at the end of the day. Even if we agreed that strength and speed between the two are equal. Goku enegy manipulating abilities are faaaaaaaaaaaaaaar in excess of pre crisis supes and lets not even talk about fighting skill.

Think about this, frieza in his first form could atomise a planet with one finger, at the end of DBGT Goku is 200 times more powerful than that.

200 times being speculation. He's stronger, yes. But it's unknown as to exactly how much stronger.

THEN he becomes one with Dragonballs and THEN the story is fast forwarded 100 years into the future when Goku visits his ancestor, considering how:

A) Goku trains and fights everyday (thats all he does)
B) Sayans get stronger after every battle
C) He's been training everday for the past 100 years,learning martial arts from the greatest masters alive and dead in his universe.

and D) From the the Beginning of DBZ and the end of DBGT his power started off at around 330 and at the end it was around 96,000,000.

Number is speculation.

The space of time between was around 30 years.

It only took him 30 odd years to increase his power by that much. How much do you think its increased in the past 100 years?

Increased. But speculation can only go so far in a debate.

[CBG]

Guyver on lobo and superman fighting goku

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guyverjay
Not really Goku would transport him into a black hole or move at 20 times the speed of light and rip his head off or he would take away his immortality. Either way game over. Same with supes.

Against Lobo? A single drop of blood will regenerate into a clone or reform his entire body (as reiterated in 52). In addition, he's immortal due to being kicked out of Heaven and Hell. He's unkillable.

BTW since Supes gets his power from a star,its hardly surprising that he would survive an explosion of solar energy, whats soo stupid is when a star goes Nova it becomes a red giant so technically he should die when the star explodes.

Superman did survived immersion twice in a red sun against Eradicator. Survived immersion again in Infinite Crisis, alongside E2 Superman and SBP.

SS4 Goku fused with Dragonballs = Omnipotent version of Bruce Lee
Post crisis supes = Not omnipotent
Pre crisis supes = Near omnipotent

Goku being omnipotent is speculation and assumption. The Dragon wasn't even omnipotent.

Guyver on superman's durability

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guyverjay
Plus Supermans durability would have to be greater than a planet to survive a charged up Kamahamaha wave and considering how a mere nuke messed him up pretty badly, (although he did survive) a blast from Goku would destroy him.

Superman's quite nuke-proof, actually. Of which are you referring to?

More guyver on goku being omnipotent and superman not

Goku being omnipotent is speculation and assumption.

Bottom line is Goku is omnipotent, Supes is not.

Speculation. Assumption.

Goku is immortal, supes is not.

Speculation, assumption. Superman has longevity. Pre-Crisis, he survived to being 1,000,000 years old.

Goku gets stronger after every battle, supes does not.

Mental blocks, on Superman's part. He can vastly increase his powers via sun-dip, as seen in OWAW.

Goku is has at least 160 years of training and experience fighting the most powerful beings in his universe (by himself I might add),supes does not.

Superman had participated in a 1000 year war prior to OWAW, and does actually know martial arts. He's also taken on the most powerful beings of his universe -- he's Superman, after all.

Goku is the most accomplished martial artist in ALL of fiction,supes is not.

The most skilled? Incorrect.

Karate Kid from the Legion of Super-Heroes is more accomplished than Goku, and he's HUMAN. If we had a match-up of Val Armorr vs. Goku who can't fly or use his ki powers, KK can put up a hard fight. If we have Goku reduced to a human with no ki powers, and have the both of them fight as human martial artists where the fight would be decided via skill, Goku would be utterly trumped by Val.

Goku can blow up a planet with his little toe supes cannot.

Exaggeration. Little toe.

Goku has durability greater than a planet,supes does not.

Superman > black hole.

Thats about as basic and clear as I can put it.

Considering how Cell held back a planet sized asteroid with his index finger and goku is probably a 100 times stronger (if not more) then how can you say that goku can't hurt supes physically?

And thus, the debate continues.

[Warhammer]

Great job, CBG. :up:
You completely disected Guyverjay's posts, which are supposedly "canon".
I couldn't agree with you more on your posts. :up:

PWNAGE.

:cool:

[CBG]

Hmm? Keollyn?

[Warhammer]

Hmm? Keollyn?

Oh s***.
Sorry, CBG. :D

*Edits*

[Jplaya2023]

Thanks for the rebuttal CBG but its all in vain. Those post were canon

[Jplaya2023]

Thanks for the rebuttal CBG but its all in vain. Those post were canon

[Jplaya2023]

Thanks for the rebuttal CBG but its all in vain. Those post were canon

[Gotenks]

I heard you the first time.

[Jplaya2023]

Great job, CBG. :up:
You completely disected Guyverjay's posts, which are supposedly "canon".
I couldn't agree with you more on your posts. :up:

PWNAGE.

:cool:

its canon u cant debate it. It would be like CBG debating on AT himself on the powers of goku.

[Warhammer]

Canon?

Stop talking. You lost.

[CBG]

I have to disagree, newbie. Both of your posts considerably builds upon speculation and assumption.

Posting 3 times doesn't reaffirm the entire content as fact.

Oh s***.
Sorry, CBG.

*Edits*

Understandable. But both Keollyn and I can confirm that we're not the same person. Our writing/communication style is different. You can check our IP's if you disbelieve me.

its canon u cant debate it. It would be like CBG debating on AT himself on the powers of goku.

Last I checked, AT wasn't involved in defining 'powers' for end of DBGT Goku.

Last I checked, neither you or the other poster are AT.

Last I checked, it was NEVER outright stated in GT that Goku merged with the Dragon Balls was omnipotent.

[Warhammer]

I have to disagree, newbie. Both of your posts considerably builds upon speculation and assumption.

Posting 3 times doesn't reaffirm the entire content as fact.



Understandable. But both Keollyn and I can confirm that we're not the same person. Our writing/communication style is different. You can check our IP's if you disbelieve me.

Keollyn was in my mind when I saw those for some reason.
I have been agreeing with him lately, but I am sorry.

Sorry, CBG.
Your posts were great. :up:

OWNAGE.

[Jplaya2023]

Canon?

Stop talking. You lost.


lol get the hell outta here

[CBG]

Regardless, the arguements do noticeably build upon speculation and assumption.

[Jplaya2023]

Regardless, the arguements do noticeably build upon speculation and assumption.

Regardless its canon

[Sloth7d]

Yknow. I would debate on this if we could stick to one character.
It seems every five seconds Goku changes a dancing partner in internet craze that is a vs topic.

[CBG]

The Goku vs. Superman topic is one of the most heated debates on the Internet. It's been going on for years now, and still goes on strong.

It'll continue, unless DC inflates Superman's abilities. The chances of that are about 4 to 10, within the next 10 years on average.

Regardless its canon

You and the other poster actually mentioned a filler, I believe, with Vegeta destroying a planet with his two fingers.

And yes, in GT canon, Goku merged with the Dragon Balls.

Omnipotent? Speculation and assumption.

[Jplaya2023]

The Goku vs. Superman topic is one of the most heated debates on the Internet. It's been going on for years now, and still goes on strong.

It'll continue, unless DC inflates Superman's abilities. The chances of that are about 4 to 10, within the next 10 years on average.

So you actually agree goku can beat superman more times than not.

Do me a favor. Those guyverj canon post i made, go to the naruto site and post those in that "who can beat goku thread" that ought to shut those idiots up.

Thanks

[CBG]

So you actually agree goku can beat superman more times than not.

Ah, such your interpretation of my post. I suppose I should have expanded more and fill it out more, in order to be more specific of what I mean.

To expand, unless DC inflates Superman's abilities or expand upon them and his capabilities, the debate will continue on with no end in sight.

Do me a favor. Those guyverj canon post i made, go to the naruto site and post those in that "who can beat goku thread" that ought to shut those idiots up.

Thanks

Why don't you do it yourself? Last I checked yesterday, your account is still open.

[Jplaya2023]

Ah, such your interpretation of my post. I suppose I should have expanded more and fill it out more, in order to be more specific of what I mean.

To expand, unless DC inflates Superman's abilities or expand upon them and his capabilities, the debate will continue on with no end in sight.



Why don't you do it yourself? Last I checked yesterday, your account is still open.

lol @ you checking what a pal.

But i cant post there no more. In 20 seconds after my post, i'll have 6 peolpe quoting me and i dont have the energy to go back and forth. So thanks for doing thatfor me

[CBG]

Assuming that I would post for you? Still assuming.

Do that yourself, if you really want to.

[Jplaya2023]

Assuming that I would post for you? Still assuming.

Do that yourself, if you really want to.

Come on man u owe me 1 remember.

Just copy and paste it pimp thats all i ask

[CBG]

And what do I owe you for exactly?

Do your own work, newbie.

[Jplaya2023]

And what do I owe you for exactly?

Do your own work, newbie.

Remember i hooked u up with Scuzemabachi from the other site. U said u owed me one

[CBG]

Refresh my memory then.

[Jplaya2023]

Refresh my memory then.

that chick scuzenmabachi u liked her i hooked yall up u was grateful

[CBG]

Ha ha. What an assumption by you.

Imagine that my surprise at a poster's gender gets translated into an automatic relationship.

Over the net? At a forum? Pssh.

[Jplaya2023]

Ha ha. What an assumption by you.

Imagine that my surprise at a poster's gender gets translated into an automatic relationship.

Over the net? At a forum? Pssh.

Yall live close buy and needed a push to get togethor, i was that push. I seen the chemistry between u 2 in threads u got work well togethor

[CBG]

Nope. I don't know where other posters live.

And you really dislike me so much that you assume a one-view from me?

[Jplaya2023]

Nope. I don't know where other posters live.

And you really dislike me so much that you assume a one-view from me?

i dont dislike you pimp, you strong in your beleifs as am I. Its no big deal

[CBG]

The difference is, some, if not the majority of your beliefs contradicts facts.

[Warhammer]

lol get the hell outta here

Jplaya, shut up.
You said that because I happened to log off before you said that.

[LouFerignoDemon]

This will be interesting. For the love of my fingers, I'm only sticking to the Silver Surfer part, since this is where it stands.

For those that have a question about goku at the end of gt or goku fighting in GT. I fonud some classic post from the homey guyverj that touches on the subject. Along with myself guyver's post are canon

This is regarding to Silver Surfer, Dr Doom, Doomsday, Dr Strange, and Thanos FIghting goku


Quote:
Originally Posted by Guyverjay
LOL!!! What a load of rubbish

Goku would beat the surfer,he's faster,better fighting skill and overall more powerful. Vegeta could blow up,a planet with his little finger when his power level 21,000. Goku's power level is around 96,million. So goku is 46 times stronger than when he could destroy a planet. One planet destroying blast and surfers down. Surfers durability isn't greater than a planet sorry.

As much as I love doom again Goku would destroy the whole country of latveria,Doom goes down.

Goku teleports Doomsday into a black hole and leaves him there,doomsday goes down.

Dr strange,now that is a tough one Idont think Goku comeup against someone who does magic, but the hulk has broken stranges bands of cytorrak and Goku is more powerful tyan the hulk. All strange could do with the hulk is teleport him somewhere else. That won't work on goku he would jus teleport back again. Strange goes down.

Thanos goes down for the same reason I gave for surfer.

Everybody makes a big deal about goku's intelligence,its not really his fault he didnt go to school. Anyway he's a fighting genius,thats all that counts. He's like Bruce lee with the power cosmic.How can any one compete with that?


One, the Surfer is TONS faster than Goku. I can't even begin to calculate about how many thousands of times faster than the speed of light the Surfer can knowledgably travel at with precision. Goku without instant movement, being extremely liberal, and assuming he's going to bust the laws of physics, can only move TOPS ten to twenty times the speed of light. Compared to someone who moves more practically millions, possibly billions times the speed of light. (Keep in mind he was finding one usable planet per month in all known galaxies for something less than one hundred years for Galactus)
The Surfer CAN endure a planetary destruction event. Any single person who can survive in a black hole and even fight full power in it, can survive a planetary destruction event. He's far more durable than a single planet when he applies his Power Cosmic correctly. I apologize. "Well, Goku can too." When he applies his power correctly, which the Surfer can just suck out of Goku on extremely large scales. Hell, the Surfer instead could just generate a solar system destruction event in less than a minute. Getting pursued by those hunters sent by Annihilus with power and speed similar to his, he still found enough time to talk to his fallen comrade, and then generate a black hole with little effect to his dexterity as an appropriate send off for his friend. And that was all under his own power. He doesn't have to charge it from outside. His power IS the Power Cosmic throughout the universe on a heavy scale. And THEN he got an upgrade.
And since he moves so godddamn fast, basic energy attacks that take a while to charge up are almost perfectly useless against him. Surfer doesn't do that sit and wait crap, he attacks like a rabid dog.

And just for kicks, fighting genius doesn't exactly mean victories. His lack of knowledge is his single greatest weakness. The Surfer is an extremely intelligent being. He doesn't simply forget his maneuvers, and has a large understanding of the workings of the universe he could use very effectively. Or just turn Goku into glass and shatter him.

[Jplaya2023]

canon pics of ssj5 goku and ssj5 brolly

http://www.toywarble.com/toy/AFbroly-color-hera2.jpg

http://img89.imageshack.us/my.php?image=af594wt.jpg

these came from dragonball AF which is canon but never released in the US

[Sloth7d]

canon pics of ssj5 goku and ssj5 brolly

http://www.toywarble.com/toy/AFbroly-color-hera2.jpg

http://img89.imageshack.us/my.php?image=af594wt.jpg

these came from dragonball AF which is canon but never released in the US
Whoa!!!
Freakin awesome!!!
But dragonball gt isn't even canon and neither is the unwritten AT.

[CBG]

Hurm. . . who would have thought, after all this time, I finally meet the ill-famed poster who thought SSJ5 was canon, as well as Dragon Ball AF.

Dragon Ball AF is not canon, newbie. It's most likely a fabrication, after all these years.

Reminds me of the Shen Long rumour back in the Street Fighter days.

[Jplaya2023]

Hurm. . . who would have thought, after all this time, I finally meet the ill-famed poster who thought SSJ5 was canon, as well as Dragon Ball AF.

Dragon Ball AF is not canon, newbie. It's most likely a fabrication, after all these years.

Reminds me of the Shen Long rumour back in the Street Fighter days.

people have differing opinions on dragonball AF some peolpe think it isnt canon because it wasnt released outside japan i think it is canon. Agree to disagree

[CBG]

No word from Akira Toiyama
No word from Toei
No word from FUNimation
No manga
No anime
No official merchadise
Nothing official
Dates back to 1997, if I remember correctly.
and more

Fabrication.

Give me evidence that it's official. Artwork doesn't cut it.

[Jplaya2023]

No word from Akira Toiyama
No word from Toei
No word from FUNimation
No manga
No anime
No official merchadise
Nothing official
Dates back to 1997, if I remember correctly.
and more

Fabrication.

Give me evidence that it's official. Artwork doesn't cut it.

http://www.toywarble.com/toy/dragonballAF2.htm

[CBG]

Ah, that.

That's as canon as fanfiction.

In addition, lack of promotion material and official promotions by AT noticeably severely weakens its credibility.

I rather trust the creator's words than pieces of art.

[Sloth7d]

Off topic but you guys have to check this out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rmivs1I85y0
Roflmao! Any fan of Dbz will agree, freaking awesome!!!:woot:

[Gotenks]

canon pics of ssj5 goku and ssj5 brolly

http://www.toywarble.com/toy/AFbroly-color-hera2.jpg

http://img89.imageshack.us/my.php?image=af594wt.jpg

these came from dragonball AF which is canon but never released in the US

You cant be serious!
Can't you tell that picture is fake? I have heard at least five different stories of how DBAF went all fake and fan made.

[Warhammer]

canon pics of ssj5 goku and ssj5 brolly

http://www.toywarble.com/toy/AFbroly-color-hera2.jpg

http://img89.imageshack.us/my.php?image=af594wt.jpg

these came from dragonball AF which is canon but never released in the US

Wow, that is hilarious.
...the picture and your post.

[Ultra-Herald9]

people have differing opinions on dragonball AF some peolpe think it isnt canon because it wasnt released outside japan i think it is canon. Agree to disagree

You do know that Dragon Ball AF stands for April Fools right? It was an oldschool joke that got taken way to seriously by fanboys like you. Ever seen that oldschool pic of SSJ4 Gohan holding a book? That and everything else was fan-made. Akira Toriyama DOESN'T want to make a dragon ball sequel, if he had it his way Goku would have died on Namek. He didn't even want GT and he has said MANY times that there will be no DB sequels.

[Ultra-Herald9]

Jplaya you have just completey self-destructed your own credibility.......:csad:

[Jplaya2023]

Jplaya you have just completey self-destructed your own credibility.......:csad:

says the man that stated Lee is the best H2H fighter in konoha :wow:

[CBG]

Way better than accepting well-drawn fan art as canon.

[OMEGAVEGETTO]

if vegetto can survive being changed into candy and retain all his power , than ssj4 goku could do the same

[LouFerignoDemon]

I don't know if it's fair to say that SSJ4 Goku is readily capable of the same feats as Vegetto. Not to knock you, at all.

But that would kind of be like saying that since Goku at the beginning of the series could use the Kamehameha, that Vegeta must also towards the end of the series since he's more than powerful enough. It simply may be that the fused function of Goku and Vegeta could do it, and others simply can't.

[CBG]

if vegetto can survive being changed into candy and retain all his power , than ssj4 goku could do the same

It could have been a case of power.

Or it could be something else: a fused warrior, or the earrings, perhaps.

[Ultra-Herald9]

says the man that stated Lee is the best H2H fighter in konoha :wow:

Hey I don't claim to know everything about the narutoverse like you do about the DBZverse. And claiming that Lee is best chunin taijutsu specialist is an easy mistake compared to thinkin that Dragon Ball AF is in continuity.

At least I can admit when I'm wrong dude.

[Ultra-Herald9]

It could have been a case of power.

Or it could be something else: a fused warrior, or the earrings, perhaps.

I always thought that the fusion would give some sort of protection against offensive magic. And transformation magic is the easiest one to see the earings protecting against.

[Ultra-Herald9]

if vegetto can survive being changed into candy and retain all his power , than ssj4 goku could do the same


Comparing SSj4 Goku to Vegetto isn't really right. I really don't think that SSj4(and this is based on feats also) that SSj4 gives power anywhere near that of a serious Super Vegetto.

[CBG]

And claiming that Lee is best chunin taijutsu specialist is an easy mistake compared to thinkin that Dragon Ball AF is in continuity.

Some people translates the AF to stand for "April Fools."

[Sloth7d]

Dragonball AF is more non canon than me righting a story about Chchi having an affair with Vegeta. Jplaya you need to accept that.

[ssj wolverine]

Without any facts I believe at the end of GT, Goku became a god or at least a cosmic being. I mean what was he doing for 100 years in the company of the all powerful Sheron? Sitting on his hands? Surfer would get his ass whipped.

[CBG]

Without any facts I believe at the end of GT, Goku became a god or at least a cosmic being.

This is what I say that people assume that Goku at the end of GT became omnipotent, and when investigated into, there's no proof and evidence to hold it up.

In addition, speculation can only go so far in debates.

I mean what was he doing for 100 years in the company of the all powerful Sheron?

Anything. Or perhaps nothing at all. No one knows.

Surfer would get his ass whipped.

Not really.

[Ultra-Herald9]

Without any facts I believe at the end of GT, Goku became a god or at least a cosmic being. I mean what was he doing for 100 years in the company of the all powerful Sheron? Sitting on his hands? Surfer would get his ass whipped.


I believe Goku became ageless or possibly immortal to guard the dragon balls but omnipotence is kinda a stretch. Eery supports their theory by saying that he fused with the dragon balls but first of all fusing with the dragon balls would hardly make one omnipotent since their are plenty of things the dragon balls were unable to do.

Plus Goku didn't even have all the dragon balls in the end of GT since he gave one to Goku jr.

[Endless Mike]

Ignoring the fact that GT is non - canon (we might as well use the version of Surfer from that What If issue where he got the Infinity Gauntlet), there's no evidence that 'merging' with the dragonballs even increased Goku's power. For all we know, they could have made him weaker.

Now we know Goku is nowhere near omnipotent, we know the dragonballs, the dragon, and the Nameks who created them are nowhere near omnipotent, so why the hell would you think that them combined = omnipotent?

Makes no sense.

[Sloth7d]

I'm pretty sure it made him stronger though. Look at the power up Omega Shenron recieved from them. I wouldn't speculate that he is omnipotent though.

[Endless Mike]

That's because Shenron was a dragon who was linked to them and created from them. I don't even know why we're debating GT anyway, it's non - canon (and a POS as well)

[Sloth7d]

You can't prove that because he's a dragon that only he gets the power up. It seemed like Goku became sort of a phantom after he fused with the dragon.
Seeing as how he dissapeared after the sparring match with Old man Krillin without being seen. Its possimble he could have used instant transmission, but the writers leave a more "he's a spectre" kind of feel to the scene.
But in the end this is all speculation.

[Endless Mike]

Of course, which is all worthless.

[Sloth7d]

Yeah. And I know GT is non-canon, but somehow it was pulled into the conversation.

[Endless Mike]

By Phenomenol and jplaya, right?

I know them from another board. Some of the most annoying fanboys ever.

[Warhammer]

By Phenomenol and jplaya, right?

I know them from another board. Some of the most annoying fanboys ever.

Dang, I didn't know that. :oldrazz:

[Jplaya2023]

Dang, I didn't know that. :oldrazz:


endless mike comic book guy keolynn, scuzemabachi, followed me to thit site when i gave out vicious sonnings on another fight.

[Warhammer]

endless mike comic book guy keolynn, scuzemabachi, followed me to thit site when i gave out vicious sonnings on another fight.

I love how this is an ongoing, multi-site fight.

:cool:

[CBG]

Vicious sonnings?

Last I checked newbie, I and other posters drove you out since you were losing and trolled continuously.

During your entire time at NF, I corrected every piece of comic knowledge you distorted, starting with Batman not being the best martial artist of the DCU. He's not even in the top 5.

How the hell you're still active in these forums and still trolling is a mystery to me.

[Jplaya2023]

Vicious sonnings



Yes, and now that you followed me, more are to come

[Endless Mike]

Honestly, you make Phenomenol look sane.

[CBG]

You still can't even quote properly, newbie?

With me here, I'm going to correct your mistakes regarding comics. For as long as I can until logic triumphantly reigns unchallenged.

[Jplaya2023]

Honestly, you make Phenomenol look sane.

And u make comic book guy look like an unbias poster. So you most def put in work to get that accolade

[CBG]

And you're so biased and favoured towards DBZ, you can't accept the truth, fact, and reality that they are defeatable.

[Endless Mike]

And u make comic book guy look like an unbias poster. So you most def put in work to get that accolade

You have absolutely no right to accuse anyone of being biased. EVER.

Mr. "Lolz Itazchi wud juzt amrutzu FREAKING GALACTUS"

[CBG]

Which I can't believe that someone actually said that.

[Endless Mike]

What's next, Konohamaru vs. the Living Tribunal?

[Jplaya2023]

And you're so biased and favoured towards DBZ, you can't accept the truth, fact, and reality that they are defeatable.

I'm not bias i admit people who can "think people out of existence" can win in some instances. But my point stands, in a "fight" no universe sans spiderman and batman can match the Z warriors in battle. That is fight

Saiyan fighting race >>>>>>>>>>. krptonians, amazons, manhunters, flash's species of people

FACT

[Endless Mike]

I'm not bias i admit people who can "think people out of existence" can win in some instances. But my point stands, in a "fight" no universe sans spiderman and batman can match the Z warriors in battle. That is fight

Saiyan fighting race >>>>>>>>>>. krptonians, amazons, manhunters, flash's species of people

FACT

"Flash's species of people?"

The Flashes are HUMAN.

How can you argue against characters you know nothing about?

[Jplaya2023]

Which I can't believe that someone actually said that.

Not as bad as mike's lovefest with flash

"LOLZZZ flas is so kewwwwl lolz he makes gohan molecules do the harlem shake lolzzzzzzzzzzzzz flash is da mayneeeee lolzzzzz he fast"

[Jplaya2023]

"Flash's species of people?"

The Flashes are HUMAN.

How can you argue against characters you know nothing about?

that was a typo i meant to say the lobo species i got ahead of myself, my bad

[CBG]

I'm not bias i admit people who can "think people out of existence" can win in some instances.

Not really, actually. Your persistent questioning of Pre-Retcon Beyonder and omnipotence says a lot otherwise.

But my point stands, in a "fight" no universe sans spiderman and batman can match the Z warriors in battle. That is fight

The thing is, a fight IN YOUR BIASED DEFINITION involves h2h combat and destructive energy blasts. A fight involves anything.

You're not going to see a mugger fight someone fair and square for their money. You see a mugger stick someone up with a gun. You don't see the victim asking the gun to be down and settle this in a 'fight'. The mugger doesn't care, and would just use the gun anyways.

Saiyan fighting race >>>>>>>>>>. krptonians, amazons, manhunters, flash's species of people

The Martians from DC?

They go intangible and use offensive TP, if they want to. And there's the hidden Burning Martian potential. . .

[CBG]

that was a typo i meant to say the lobo species i got ahead of myself, my bad

What, the Czarians?

Lobo's the last of his kind. He killed them all when he was out of the womb.

Lobo's unkillable, you know. Heaven and Hell kicked him out.

[Jplaya2023]

comic book guy endless mike whomever

please show me scans where silver surfer is fighting and dodging at the speed of light like goku is doing in scan. Show me a scan where SS is dodging attacks at close range like this

http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/photo.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume24/Db24ch06/2486.gif

[CBG]

Show me where it says 'lightspeed' on that page, newbie.

[Endless Mike]

comic book guy endless mike whomever
please show me scans where silver surfer is fighting and dodging at the speed of light like goku is doing in scan. Show me a scan where SS is dodging attacks at close range like this


Sure thing.

As soon as you prove that was anywhere near the speed of light.

[Jplaya2023]

Sure thing.



well stop keeping me waiting

[CBG]

Where does it say 'lightspeed' in that scan?

[Endless Mike]

well stop keeping me waiting

Prove that was lightspeed.

[Jplaya2023]

Prove that was lightspeed.

scans???/

[CBG]

I don't see any 'lightspeed' mention in that scan.

[Jplaya2023]

scans???

I don't.

concession accepted. Have a good night

[CBG]

Still can't quote, eh?

There's no mention of lightspeed in that scan. You're using your own interpretation as reality, which is distorted to absolutely incorrect.

Just because you believe a car won't hit you and instead passes through you, doesn't mean that that's the reality.

[Jplaya2023]

Still can't quote, eh?



what are u talking about i quoted u correctly

[saiyan jedi]

Show me where it says 'lightspeed' on that page, newbie.
its not

and stop saying newbie
u and endless mike are the only newbs here

[CBG]

True. But jplaya2023's lack of comic knowledge contradicts with his self-proclaimed respected knowledge regarding comics.

Unless he actually acquires knowledge in comics, he's a newbie with regards to comics.

[Endless Mike]

Since he has failed to prove his lightspeed assertion, he has nothing and has conceeded the debate.

Surfer wins.

[Jplaya2023]

Since he has failed to prove his lightspeed assertion, he has nothing and has conceeded the debate.

Surfer wins.

Vegeta sensed the ginyu forces ship heading towards namek which traveled FTL. He was unable to sense frieza's attacks in form 4.

Assertion proved by way of canon

[Endless Mike]

Well at least you quoted correctly this time, but I already explained this to you.

Parallax.

The moon moves thousands of miles per hour, yet it is easy to see.

A fly, at top speed, only moves a few miles per hour, yet if it is buzzing around you erratically it is very hard to see.

[Jplaya2023]

Well at least you quoted correctly this time.

No need to "explain" Vegeta sensed the ginyu force ships which travel ftl and couldnt sense form 4 frieza's movements

conclusion every char after the frieza saga is much faster than light.

[Endless Mike]

And since I can see the moon, I can move faster than thousands of miles per hour.

[Jplaya2023]

And since I can see the moon, I can move faster than thousands of miles per hour.

baka, are the ginyu space pods the size of the moon??? No

Is the moon traveling at linear speeds toward a specific destination?

[Endless Mike]

All of that is irrelevant.

The point is that depending on your perspective, it can be easier to detect objects moving at higher speeds than at lower speeds.

If you like, substitute the moon for an airplane. Same principle.

[Jplaya2023]

All of that is irrelevant.

Because it destroys your argument

The point is that depending on your perspective, it can be easier to detect objects moving at higher speeds than at lower speeds.

Only if the object is within normal perception. Vegeta sensed them million of miles out in space and knew from the "KI's" it was the ginyu force.

If you like, substitute the moon for an airplane. Same principle.


The only time a normal human can see or perceive an airplane in flight is if it just takes off , or if its coming down for landing.

If im in Denver, i cant sense a plane coming from california until it begins to land in denver or comes down far enough from the sky in which i can perceive it.

But the only thing that matters is vegeta sensed 5 ships that go faster than light and couldnt perceive freiza's movements at perfect form.

Conclusion: frieza = lightspeed

deal with it.

[Sloth7d]

You people are forgetting one thing.
Sensing=/=seeing.
You can't disprove Freeza not beeing lightspeed with an explanation of how you can see a big moon fly pass at thousands of miles per hour yet not see a bug fly by when they aren't the same thing.

[Jplaya2023]

You people are forgetting one thing.
Sensing=/=seeing.
You can't disprove Freeza not beeing lightspeed with an explanation of how you can see a big moon fly pass at thousands of miles per hour yet not see a bug fly by when they aren't the same thing.

exactly, but his bias wont allow him to differentiate between the 2.

The bigger the object the more visible the objects will be to anyone. Vegeta senses ships big enough to hold one passenger, that were flying FTL

[Endless Mike]

Because it destroys your argument

No, because it has no bearing on my argument.

Only if the object is within normal perception. Vegeta sensed them million of miles out in space and knew from the "KI's" it was the ginyu force.

That only proves that ki emissions in DBZ that can be sensed travel faster than light. It ignores the issue of parallax and how it is so much easier to detect an object travelling in a straight path at a fixed speed (which can easily be predicted) far away from you than an object zipping around erratically right next to you.


The only time a normal human can see or perceive an airplane in flight is if it just takes off , or if its coming down for landing.

My house is over a major air route. I can go outside any time of the day or night and look up in the sky for a few minutes, and chances are I'll spot a plane. You have no idea what you're talking about.

If im in Denver, i cant sense a plane coming from california until it begins to land in denver or comes down far enough from the sky in which i can perceive it.

Because it is obscured by the clouds and the curvature of the earth, and its relative size is small compared to that distance.

Compare this to sensing the Ginyu's ki, which was not obscured by any obstacles and is not dependent on size for accurate perception.

But the only thing that matters is vegeta sensed 5 ships that go faster than light and couldnt perceive freiza's movements at perfect form.

Conclusion: frieza = lightspeed

deal with it.

He knew Frieza was there, he just didn't know exactly where, because he was zipping around too fast. That's completely different from sensing an object on a linear trajectory from a far distance.

You people are forgetting one thing.
Sensing=/=seeing.
You can't disprove it with an explanation of how you can see a big moon fly pass at thousands of miles per hour yet not see a bug fly by when they aren't the same thing.

For all intents and purposes, they are. Detection works the same way, no matter the method, as long as it relies on the mechanism of detecting and processing incoming emissions from the target, whether they are light waves or ki waves.

To illustrate, consider the following thought experiment: You have an asteroid flying at you at 50% lightspeed. You fire a laser at the asteroid, and it bounces back, allowing you to detect the asteroid's presence, trajectory, and speed.

Now say you have an object buzzing around you at random movements at 25% lightspeed. Even if you shine lasers in all directions, if they hit the object and bounce back, the data you collect regarding the position of the object will be out of date by the time it reaches you. Unlike the asteroid, which is travelling in a predictable path, the object could have moved anywhere, so it cannot be tracked by this method, even though it is moving slower.

Understand?

EDIT: Additionally, it is disingenuous to claim that ki sense is not subject to parallax and effects of other such senses, and then turn around and claim that detecting a ki source moving FTL is more difficult than detecting a ki source moving STL, since if you can simply declare that a normal rule of physics and logic does not apply to ki sense, you have no right to claim that any others do.

[Sloth7d]

To illustrate, consider the following thought experiment: You have an asteroid flying at you at 50% lightspeed. You fire a laser at the asteroid, and it bounces back, allowing you to detect the asteroid's presence, trajectory, and speed.

Now say you have an object buzzing around you at random movements at 25% lightspeed. Even if you shine lasers in all directions, if they hit the object and bounce back, the data you collect regarding the position of the object will be out of date by the time it reaches you. Unlike the asteroid, which is travelling in a predictable path, the object could have moved anywhere, so it cannot be tracked by this method, even though it is moving slower.

Understand?
Yes and you just proved my point.
Freeza's powerlevel was like nothing they ever felt. It was the biggest powerlevel they had encountered at that point infact. Goku could feel it in his sleep it was so big. Yet he was moving so fast that they couldn't sense it? Yet while on a ship moving at light speeds they could?

[Endless Mike]

Yes and you just proved my point.
Freeza's powerlevel was like nothing they ever felt. It was the biggest powerlevel they had encountered at that point infact. Goku could feel it in his sleep it was so big. Yet he was moving so fast that they couldn't sense it? Yet while on a ship moving at light speeds they could?

Way to totally ignore my argument.

The ships were travelling at a fixed velocity, on a linear path, far away from Vegeta so he had a clear perspective on them.

Frieza was travelling erratically, on a random path, changing direction constantly, right next to Vegeta so he didn't have a good vantage point as he was surrounded. (It's easier to see a car driving on a road 100 meters away from you than a car zipping right past you one foot away, which will appear as a blur).

[Sloth7d]

Way to totally ignore my argument.

The ships were travelling at a fixed velocity, on a linear path, far away from Vegeta so he had a clear perspective on them.

Frieza was travelling erratically, on a random path, changing direction constantly, right next to Vegeta so he didn't have a good vantage point as he was surrounded. (It's easier to see a car driving on a road 100 meters away from you than a car zipping right past you one foot away, which will appear as a blur).
And you're still comparing sight to sound when they aren't the same thing.
Another thing you are doing is comparing the situations like Vegeta was sensing his ship instead of Freeza. He could infact sense Freeza while moving on a ship that exels light speeds, but couldn't sense Freeza moving around him. And I remind you that Freeza's energy level is like a meteor to them. Thats how big it is. The fact that they could sense it all the way on earth proves that.
Now, how fast does a meteor have to move before you can't see it. Faster than light I'd have to say.

[Endless Mike]

And you're still comparing sight to sound when they aren't the same thing.
Another thing you are doing is comparing the situations like Vegeta was sensing his ship instead of Freeza. He could infact sense Freeza while moving on a ship that exels light speeds, but couldn't sense Freeza moving around him. And I remind you that Freeza's energy level is like a meteor to them. Thats how big it is. The fact that they could sense it all the way on earth proves that.
Now, how fast does a meteor have to move before you can't see it. Faster than light I'd have to say.

A large meteor couldn't move superfast around you because there would be no room. Frieza is small enough to do so.

What part of this concept is so difficult?

Tracking an object on a linear path, a fixed trajectory, at a constant speed, from far away, is so much easier than tracking a rapidly moving object that is moving randomly and constantly changing direction right next to you.

Try this:

Wave your hand around in front of your face as fast as you can. It appears as a blur, you can't track it clearly.

Does that mean your hand is moving faster than a car, or an airplane, or a satellite, or a comet, or a star, or a planet, or any of the other things you can see with your eyes?

[Sloth7d]

A large meteor couldn't move superfast around you because there would be no room. Frieza is small enough to do so.

What part of this concept is so difficult?

Tracking an object on a linear path, a fixed trajectory, at a constant speed, from far away, is so much easier than tracking a rapidly moving object that is moving randomly and constantly changing direction right next to you.

Try this:

Wave your hand around in front of your face as fast as you can. It appears as a blur, you can't track it clearly.

Does that mean your hand is moving faster than a car, or an airplane, or a satellite, or a comet, or a star, or a planet, or any of the other things you can see with your eyes?
Even though your still confusing sight with sensing I'll level with you.

Freeza's power level could be compared to the size of a meteor.
Now do this.
Take a basketball and swirv it in front of your face. It's a blur but you can still see it. Now imagine how fast you'd have to wave it to not see it at all.


What part of this concept do you not understand?

Freeza's power could be sensed at lightspeeds but not sensed while moving on Namek.
What does this imply to you?

[Endless Mike]

Even though your still confusing sight with sensing I'll level with you.

Freeza's power level could be compared to the size of a meteor.
Now do this.
Take a basketball and swirv it in front of your face. It's a blur but you can still see it. Now imagine how fast you'd have to wave it to not see it at all.


What part of this concept do you not understand?

Freeza's power could be sensed at lightspeeds but not sensed while moving on Namek.
What does this imply to you?

Vegeta didn't say that it seemed that Frieza wasn't there at all, he just couldn't track him clearly.

Besides, I reviewed the relevant chapters, and it turns out you've been bull****ting this whole time.

Vegeta didn't sense the Ginyu's ki until only a minute or so before they actually arrived, when they were likely only in orbit coming in for a landing. He didn't sense them FTL in interstellar space.

I just spent a whole page arguing against an argument based on a premise that wasn't even true.:cmad:

[Sloth7d]

Vegeta didn't say that it seemed that Frieza wasn't there at all, he just couldn't track him clearly.

Besides, I reviewed the relevant chapters, and it turns out you've been bull****ting this whole time.

Vegeta didn't sense the Ginyu's ki until only a minute or so before they actually arrived, when they were likely only in orbit coming in for a landing. He didn't sense them FTL in interstellar space.

I just spent a whole page arguing against an argument based on a premise that wasn't even true.:cmad:
We were talking about Freeza's ki.
And he could sense it well before they orbitted the earth.

[Endless Mike]

We were talking about Freeza's ki.
And he could sense it well before they orbitted the earth.

So now you're not talking about the Ginyus' anymore?

Okay, I don't know how to explain this any more simply, so I'll draw a diagram.

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/1017/parallax1ks9.jpg

http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/3844/parallax2ct3.jpg

[Sloth7d]

So now you're not talking about the Ginyus' anymore?

Okay, I don't know how to explain this any more simply, so I'll draw a diagram.

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/1017/parallax1ks9.jpg

http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/3844/parallax2ct3.jpg
We were never talking about ginyu. We were talking about freeza.
And your hypothesis is still incorrect.
We're not talking about a small power level Vegeta coudn't sense.
We're talking about a huge power level Vegeta couldn't sense.
In diagram 3, you would have to enlarge that circle several times to even begin demonstrating. And since Freeza's power is that big, he'd have to be moving at light speeds for it not to be sensed.
But I can see you are unwilling to accept this and thats okay.
The entire world revolves around people having different opinions.

[Endless Mike]

We were never talking about ginyu. We were talking about freeza.
And your hypothesis is still incorrect.
We're not talking about a small power level Vegeta coudn't sense.

When did I claim we were?

We're talking about a huge power level Vegeta couldn't sense.

No, he could sense it, he just couldn't track it. If he couldn't sense it at all, that would simply make no sense, no matter how fast Frieza was going. If ki waves that can be sensed are emitted omnidirectionally, as seems to be the case, then the only way that Vegeta would be incapable of sensing Frieza at all is if Frieza was travelling directly away from Vegeta at a speed faster than the speed at which the ki waves propagate. Since we know they propagate at FTL speeds, that would put Frieza flying off into space, which obviously wasn't happening.

What was happening was that he knew Frieza's power level was there, he could sense it, he just couldn't track it or get a lock on it. It's like a fly buzzing all around you: You know it's there, you just can't see exactly where it is.

In diagram 3, you would have to enlarge that circle several times to even begin demonstrating. And since Freeza's power is that big, he'd have to be moving at light speeds for it not to be sensed.
But I can see you are unwilling to accept this and thats okay.
The entire world revolves around people having different opinions.

Okay, _ things.

First, there were only two diagrams.

Two, Frieza's size is not the issue, the strength of his ki is. A large ki source is more comparable, from a visual perspective, to a brighter object, not a larger one, since it can still be small and have a large presence.

Three, as I already explained, no matter how fast Frieza was going, there is absolutely no way that Vegeta couldn't sense him at all, since Frieza was staying in the same general area. Vegeta could sense him, he just couldn't track him.

Four, when you quote a post with a picture, you should just remove the picture in your quote, since it was already in the last post and it just takes up space.

[Dark-Kenshin]

Bad matchup.

Surfer just absorbs Gokus powers, and turns him into pudding.

[Gotenks]

Wow nice to see you again Dark-Kenshin.

[OMEGAVEGETTO]

Bad matchup.

Surfer just absorbs Gokus powers, and turns him into pudding.

goku is too strong to let that happen

[Sloth7d]

I hate Goku... I hate Superman... I hate silversurfer.... I hate the fact that the year 3000 will come and Goku vs random guy1 topics will still be on the internet.:dry: