Who in DC or Marvel would give Goku a good fight?

[Jplaya2023]

You just get mad because you can't handle Goku losing to anyone, to the point that you make up ridiculous excuses like Goku automatically winning just because he has faster "battle-speed".

umm if u cant hit him how can you beat him???

[CBG]

There are characters who would lose to Goku and there are characters who would utterly defeat Goku.

It's difficult however to find a suitable character against Goku who would particularly be even with him.

umm goku could vaporize him totally leaving no trace with the kamehameha wave.

He'll reform.

He could beat iceman into submission

So? What will that accomplish? Bobby will reform.

he could teleport him to a black hole

Where would Goku find a black hole? Plus, it would most likely be a double suicide.

he could melt iceman by simply charging his ki

How so?

doubt it phoenix would get humiliated trying to fight goku who is basically omnipotent.

If Goku's omnipotent, I'm Elvis. No one in DBZ is omnipotent.

Hey, Keollyn. Finally joined.

[Keollyn]

you must be from that other site, stupidity like this should have u blocked

Oh, you're the one who had to retreat from the board because your intellectual post had the mods coming to you in awe [/sarcasm]

Do me a favor? Expand.

[Jplaya2023]

There are characters who would lose to Goku and there are characters who would utterly defeat Goku.

It's difficult however to find a suitable character against Goku who would particularly be even with him.



He'll reform.



So? What will that accomplish? Bobby will reform.



Where would Goku find a black hole? Plus, it would most likely be a double suicide.



How so?



If Goku's omnipotent, I'm Elvis. No one in DBZ is omnipotent.

Hey, Keollyn. Finally joined.


OH NO :csad: I know who you are :csad: Why have u come here :csad:

THIS CANT BE HAPPENING!!!

[Keollyn]

Jplaya is emo.

[CrypticOne]

Well, who would put up the best fight? Superman, Thor, Hulk, Captain Marvel, Silver Surfer any others you can think of?

I would have to say Superman. That would be a match that I would really like to see.

[Ultra-Herald9]

I would have to say Superman. That would be a match that I would really like to see.

You do know that Silver Surfer makes Superman look like a joke right? But then again you did say that it was a fight you would like to see rather than who would put up the best fight.

[Sloth7d]

RahXephon
The Hulk
Laharl
Id
New Sun
Gladiator
Eiko Magami
Thor
Lenneth Valkyrie
Gabriel
Pyron
Burori
Karate Kid
Iceman
Popeye
Onslaught
Beyonder
Dark Schneider
Parallax
Lobo

Alot of those characters would decimate Goku without even trying. Yes I know this was supposed to be "a good matchup" and yes, I know this was suppose to be "Marvel/DC characters" but I don't care. Goku is grinding on my last nerves.
I'm just gonna say again, that alot of people here are underestimating Goku.

[Keollyn]

And I'll ask again....

"Why were those characters bold?"

[Sloth7d]

Because God doesn't like them very much.

[Keollyn]

That post is nothing sort of brilliant [/sarcasm]

[Warhammer]

umm if u cant hit him how can you beat him???

Umm.....if Silver Surfer can exceed light speed, then he can surely keep up/exceed Goku's battle speed, even though Surfer doesn't really rely on brute force to win.

[CBG]

Iceman

Using the full extent of his powers, he can pull it off.

Popeye

Only with Spinach.

Onslaught

Eh? Why?

[Warhammer]

^I think Onslaught would be a nice challenge for Goku.

[Sloth7d]

That post is nothing sort of brilliant [/sarcasm]
The same goes for post 2259.

[Keollyn]

Eh? Why?

Why Onslaught can beat Goku?

[Gotenks]

When has Goku ever beaten Burori?

Goku could never rumble with Superboy, let alone have him fall to one knee.. but Goku would beat someone who did? WTF!?

Goku can't put away Iceman, yet he has a 6/10 chance of winning?

Popeye's done far more impressive things than Goku has ever done. Surviving in zero atmosphere is one of them.

Technically Goku didnt kill him, but brolly lost to him and his sons.

Im not here to say that superman or boy would get his butt whooped by goku. Im saying it would be an awesome fight to see. In the end I do believe that goku can beat superman. I dont really want to go into that because this will just turn into Goku vs Superman all over again.

I meant strength wise.

Good point. Goku has never done that, but can popeye instant transmission anywhere he wants? No, Hes only human. OK lets just say popeye beats goku in "strength" do you think he can take on a full power kamehameha in the face?

[Warhammer]

Technically Goku didnt kill him, but brolly lost to him and his sons.

Im not here to say that superman or boy would get his butt whooped by goku. Im saying it would be an awesome fight to see. In the end I do believe that goku can beat superman. I dont really want to go into that because this will just turn into Goku vs Superman all over again.

I meant strength wise.

Good point. Goku has never done that, but can popeye instant transmission anywhere he wants? No, Hes only human. OK lets just say popeye beats goku in "strength" do you think he can take on a full power kamehameha in the face?

I always considered SSJ3 stronger than LSSJ. I always believed that Broly would lose to Goku SSJ3/SSJ4 badly.

[Sloth7d]

Base LSSj isn't even stronger than SSj2.

[Keollyn]

Technically Goku didnt kill him, but brolly lost to him and his sons.

Im not here to say that superman or boy would get his butt whooped by goku. Im saying it would be an awesome fight to see. In the end I do believe that goku can beat superman. I dont really want to go into that because this will just turn into Goku vs Superman all over again.

I meant strength wise.

Good point. Goku has never done that, but can popeye instant transmission anywhere he wants? No, Hes only human. OK lets just say popeye beats goku in "strength" do you think he can take on a full power kamehameha in the face?

But not against Goku. There's sort of a key difference there.

Well that's your belief. People believe that Supes done vastly more than Goku has ever done, and that's reason to believe Supes > Goku.

But that still wouldn't account to a win.

Popeye does some insane things after eating spinach. I'm sure Shunkai Ido Kahameha would pose no issue (he did, after eating spinach gone from the moon to earth in 3 seconds)

[Keollyn]

I always considered SSJ3 stronger than LSSJ. I always believed that Broly would lose to Goku SSJ3/SSJ4 badly.

The sad misconception is that people think that the powers are the same among Saiya-jin. A SSJ2 in one Saiya-jin may be weaker than a SSJ in another.

Therefore, you go by feats. Burori as a baby has done more impressive things than even a SSJ3. Don't assume just because he resembles a USSJ that he has the same power as Trunks...

[Sloth7d]

So I guess popeye>superman aswell, huh?:rolleyes:

[Keollyn]

So I guess popeye>superman aswell, huh?:rolleyes:

Pretty much.

[Sloth7d]

The sad misconception is that people think that the powers are the same among Saiya-jin. A SSJ2 in one Saiya-jin may be weaker than a SSJ in another.

Therefore, you go by feats. Burori as a baby has done more impressive things than even a SSJ3. Don't assume just because he resembles a USSJ that he has the same power as Trunks...
But he was weak enough to be beat by ssj2gohan. He would lose terribley to SSj3 goku or gotenks.

[Keollyn]

But he was weak enough to be beat by ssj2gohan. He would lose terribley to SSj3 goku or gotenks.

When did he lose to SSJ2 Gohan? Would you care to point this out, as I've not seen this even after watching all of the three Burori special.

[Gotenks]

But not against Goku. There's sort of a key difference there.

Well that's your belief. People believe that Supes done vastly more than Goku has ever done, and that's reason to believe Supes > Goku.

But that still wouldn't account to a win.

Popeye does some insane things after eating spinach. I'm sure Shunkai Ido Kahameha would pose no issue (he did, after eating spinach gone from the moon to earth in 3 seconds)

What do you mean "but not against goku"? He didnt kill him but defeated him. Thats all im saying then Gohan and Goten killed him with the help of goku.

I know. Its my own opinion and I stand by it you thinking he can beat Goku is your opinion.

I always considered the spinach as somewhat of a confident boost. Meaning it was like he had the strength of two battleships in each arm, but really just getting hyped up.

[Gotenks]

When did he lose to SSJ2 Gohan? Would you care to point this out, as I've not seen this even after watching all of the three Burori special.

I think he is refering to the father-double son kamehameha.

[Keollyn]

What do you mean "but not against goku"? He didnt kill him but defeated him. Thats all im saying then Gohan and Goten killed him with the help of goku.

I know. Its my own opinion and I stand by it you thinking he can beat Goku is your opinion.

I always considered the spinach as somewhat of a confident boost. Meaning it was like he had the strength of two battleships in each arm, but really just getting hyped up.

So using other people's powers make it Goku's? because that was the only way Goku beat Burori (which is still retarded. How does he go from taken planet destruction as a infant to getting defeated by a punch that wouldn't even split a planet in half as an adult).

And it was Gohan, Goten, a wish from the dragon and the sun that killed Burori. The bold part being the most key of points.

So Popeye's confident kept him alive in zero atmosphere? That makes no sense.

[Keollyn]

I think he is refering to the father-double son kamehameha.

Well he shouldn't leave out the other party members. Because last I recall... Burori smacked up Gohan when he went SSJ2.

[Warhammer]

The sad misconception is that people think that the powers are the same among Saiya-jin. A SSJ2 in one Saiya-jin may be weaker than a SSJ in another.

Therefore, you go by feats. Burori as a baby has done more impressive things than even a SSJ3. Don't assume just because he resembles a USSJ that he has the same power as Trunks...

Trust me, I know the difference between USSJ and LSSJ.
I guess we'll never know how powerful Broly truly is. Nice opinion, btw. :cool:

You are right about the power difference. For example, SSJ Gohan being alot stronger than SSJ Goten while training for the world Tournament.

[Sloth7d]

In the end it all depends on their base power.
But seeing as Broly was defeated by a weak ssj2 and his father, I'm postive ssj3 Goku or Gotenks would own him. Especially seeing as base Lssj isn't even stronger than ssj2.

[Warhammer]

Well, I believe the same thing about SSJ3 Goku laying the smackdown on Broly, but then again, we don't know how strong Broly can get.

I haven't seen Broly II, so what did Goten wish to the dragon, and did it make the kamehameha stronger?

[Jplaya2023]

In the end it all depends on their base power.
But seeing as Broly was defeated by a weak ssj2 and his father, I'm postive ssj3 Goku or Gotenks would own him. Especially seeing as base Lssj isn't even stronger than ssj2.

gohan wasnt ssj2 in movie 10

[Sloth7d]

gohan wasnt ssj2 in movie 10
He wasn't? Cause you can't tell with Toei now a days. But I assume he was, since he was giving it everything he got.

[Sloth7d]

Well, I believe the same thing about SSJ3 Goku laying the smackdown on Broly, but then again, we don't know how strong Broly can get.

I haven't seen Broly II, so what did Goten wish to the dragon, and did it make the kamehameha stronger?
I barely can rember.It was awhile ago that I saw it. I just remember the double kamehameha beating him.

[Warhammer]

gohan wasnt ssj2 in movie 10

Really?

Dang, I need to watch that movie again.

[Keollyn]

Well, I believe the same thing about SSJ3 Goku laying the smackdown on Broly, but then again, we don't know how strong Broly can get.

I haven't seen Broly II, so what did Goten wish to the dragon, and did it make the kamehameha stronger?

The end of movie #10 can be interpreted in two ways...

Goku actually appearing or Goku just giving moral support (although him actually seeming like he was there, throwing a kameha cannot be just moral support)

Here. It's best to see for yourself. A music video, but you can make out things without words.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6f-Fko4aI5U

[CBG]

Gohan wasn't SSJ2. There was a lack of the electric sparks that would indicate a SSJ2.

And with regards to the Onslaught thing Keollyn, I was questioning how would Goku defeat Onslaught.

[Keollyn]

He wasn't? Cause you can't tell with Toei now a days. But I assume he was, since he was giving it everything he got.

For the life of me, I thought he was too. TOEI have the same exact hair on Gohan as SSJ2 adult Gohan has. I even had images to show the difference between SSJ1 and SSJ2 Gohan.

[CBG]

Non-canon inconsistency, I suppose.

[Warhammer]

edit.

[Sloth7d]

Gohan wasn't SSJ2. There was a lack of the electric sparks that would indicate a SSJ2.

And with regards to the Onslaught thing Keollyn, I was questioning how would Goku defeat Onslaught.
He'd blast the **** out of him.
Hulk at his maximum can destroy a meteor twice the size of earth.
At his maximum he managed to do alot of damage to Onslaughts armor.
Goku is more powerful than Cell. And Cell can destroy a solar system.
Hmmmm.....IMO-solar system destuctive blast>earth shattering punch

[Warhammer]

For the life of me, I thought he was too. TOEI have the same exact hair on Gohan as SSJ2 adult Gohan has. I even had images to show the difference between SSJ1 and SSJ2 Gohan.

Ah!
This non-canon is killing me.

[Warhammer]

He'd blast the **** out of him.
Hulk at his maximum can destroy a meteor twice the size of earth.
At his maximum he managed to do alot of damage to Onslaughts armor.
Goku is more powerful than Cell. And Cell can destroy a solar system.
Hmmmm.....IMO-solar system destuctive blast>earth shattering punch

What about Onslaught's energy form after the armor got destroyed?

[CBG]

Hulk destroyed Onslaught's physical form, and Onslaught basically evolved again into pure psionic energy, if I remember correctly.

To add on, didn't Onslaught chose to fight Hulk directly, instead of employing his other powers? It's been years since I last read the Onslaught arc.

Onslaught has access to Magneto, Xavier, X-Man, and Franklin Richards' powers. He can employ these powers, if he wished to. I don't understand how Goku would defend against Xavier + Nate Grey telepathy, or Franklin Richards' reality warping, least counter it.

[Keollyn]

Ah!
This non-canon is killing me.

There's so many errors in the movies in general that it tends to mess up for all of us who source the movies.

But a person I was debating with came to a conclusion that Gohan is in a state just shy of SSJ2.. that's why he doesn't have the electricity, but has the hair of a SSJ2. It's even in the regular series.

[Warhammer]

Hulk destroyed Onslaught's physical form, and Onslaught basically evolved again into pure psionic energy, if I remember correctly.

To add on, didn't Onslaught chose to fight Hulk directly, instead of employing his other powers? It's been years since I last read the Onslaught arc.

Onslaught has access to Magneto, Xavier, X-Man, and Franklin Richards' powers. He can employ these powers, if he wished to. I don't understand how Goku would defend against Xavier + Nate Grey telepathy, or Franklin Richards' reality warping, least counter it.

I, too, think Onslaught's powers are too vast for Goku.

[Gotenks]

So using other people's powers make it Goku's? because that was the only way Goku beat Burori (which is still retarded. How does he go from taken planet destruction as a infant to getting defeated by a punch that wouldn't even split a planet in half as an adult).

And it was Gohan, Goten, a wish from the dragon and the sun that killed Burori. The bold part being the most key of points.

So Popeye's confident kept him alive in zero atmosphere? That makes no sense.

I know, I dont think you are understanding what im saying. It doesn't matter how he defeated him he got beat.

I never said he killed him.....if I did thats not what I meant.

Your right that doesnt make any sense. Im saying that possible is trying to say he amazing he is among the stars or he can reach the sky. Do you understand what im trying to say?

[Warhammer]

There's so many errors in the movies in general that it tends to mess up for all of us who source the movies.

But a person I was debating with came to a conclusion that Gohan is in a state just shy of SSJ2.. that's why he doesn't have the electricity, but has the hair of a SSJ2. It's even in the regular series.

Yep. The only movie to perfectly fit in continunity is Bojack's movie, I believe. The final movie also fits, if you assume that all of this happens after Majin Buu dies, even though Mr. Buu didn't appear. Broly I also is in continuity if you assume they went to New Vegeta during the 5 days that Cell gave the Z-team.

[Jplaya2023]

He wasn't? Cause you can't tell with Toei now a days. But I assume he was, since he was giving it everything he got.

Nope he wasnt, no electricity, and he had the short strip of hair in the front. SSJ2 hair for gohan has that long strip..

Plus ssj2 >> ssj1 he would of owned brolly with a few hits

[Gotenks]

Really?

Dang, I need to watch that movie again.

You should of just asked me to borrow it.
I have the broly trilogy.

[Warhammer]

You should of just asked me to borrow it.
I have the broly trilogy.

Yeah.
I watched Keollyn's clip on YouTube, though, so no problems.

[Keollyn]

I know, I dont think you are understanding what im saying. It doesn't matter how he defeated him he got beat.

I never said he killed him.....if I did thats not what I meant.

Your right that doesnt make any sense. Im saying that possible is trying to say he amazing he is among the stars or he can reach the sky. Do you understand what im trying to say?

So I guess it's okay to believe that Goku or Vegeta can beat Buuhan just because they beat him as Vegetto?

You said Gohan and Goten killed Burori with help from Goku. I'm saying that it was Gohan, Goten, a wish from the dragon and the sun that killed him.

Sorry, but no. It sounds like it would make sense, but something's missing that would drive the point home.

[Keollyn]

Nope he wasnt, no electricity, and he had the short strip of hair in the front. SSJ2 hair for gohan has that long strip..

Plus ssj2 >> ssj1 he would of owned brolly with a few hits

Man, I should look for the images. Gohan's hair in the Burori movie is exactly the same as his SSJ2 hair in the series. No difference at all.

Solar System destroying SSJ2 Gohan should, theoretically, have the power to beat galaxy destroying Burori in a few hits. Wait, what?!

[Jplaya2023]

There is no way the dragon could grant them that wish (it was idiotic plothole by toei) for the following reasons:

1. Goku has already been restored with the earths dragonballs once and he could only be brought back once with those DB's.

2. If he really came back alive he would of stayed there instead of going back to the dead.

3. Brolly did see goku thats why he got shook but he should fo stayed alive.

[Gotenks]

So I guess it's okay to believe that Goku or Vegeta can beat Buuhan just because they beat him as Vegetto?

You said Gohan and Goten killed Burori with help from Goku. I'm saying that it was Gohan, Goten, a wish from the dragon and the sun that killed him.

Sorry, but no. It sounds like it would make sense, but something's missing that would drive the point home.

Haha, no they got there butts handed to them!

Ok well if I did say that I was mistaken like I said in my earlier post.

O well I tried to explain it.

[Jplaya2023]

Man, I should look for the images. Gohan's hair in the Burori movie is exactly the same as his SSJ2 hair in the series. No difference at all.

Solar System destroying SSJ2 Gohan should, theoretically, have the power to beat galaxy destroying Burori in a few hits. Wait, what?!

When gohan did the kamehameha vs brolly he had ssj1 hair

Brolly is only a ssj1, he basically what trunks was vs cell but retains his speed.

SSJ2 gohan should be abel to destroy brolly in a few hits like he did against fpssj1 cell

[Keollyn]

V2 list

Anime/Manga
RahXephon
Eiko Magami
Dark Schneider
Burori
Tenchi Misaki
Ryo Sanada


Comic
Gladiator
Thor
New Sun
The Hulk
Karate Kid
Onslaught
Beyonder
Parallax
Lobo
Thanos
KC Flash
Spawn
Lucifer

Video Game
Laharl
Id
Lenneth Valkyrie
Gabriel
Pyron
Infinity Dragon
Harman
C'Tan

Other
Jane
Popeye
The Shrike

V3.... eventually

[Jplaya2023]

V2 list

Anime/Manga
RahXephon
Eiko Magami
Dark Schneider
Burori
Tenchi Misaki
Ryo Sanada




when you spell burori do u mean brolly? If so you are out of your damn mind. After goku becomes a fpssj brolly is an inscect.

[Keollyn]

Once Goku's feats remotely reach the vacinity of even baby Burori, then get back to be about Mastered SSJ Goku.

[CBG]

Brolly can be spelled

-Broly
-Brolli
-Broli
-Burori

From what I know.

[Keollyn]

I'm sorta prone to the romanized version of names.

[Jplaya2023]

Once Goku's feats remotely reach the vacinity of even baby Burori, then get back to be about Mastered SSJ Goku.

this aint comic books, you cant gauge dbz strength based on stupid feats

brolly = ussj2 without decreased speed

fjssj goku >>>>>>> ussj2 brolly without decreased speeds its a route

Brolly isnt even stronger than fpssj1 cell or dabura

[Warhammer]

I used to spell it, Brolly, but now, I spell it Broly. (Damn Funimation)

[Keollyn]

this aint comic books, you cant gauge dbz strength based on stupid feats

brolly = ussj2 without decreased speed

fjssj goku >>>>>>> ussj2 brolly without decreased speeds its a route

Brolly isnt even stronger than fpssj1 cell or dabura

Wait, so you're telling me that ALL SSJ have the same power? SSJ Goten = SSJ Gohan?

It doesn't matter what level you are. If you've proven to be stronger, you are... you guessed it... stronger.

[Warhammer]

this aint comic books, you cant gauge dbz strength based on stupid feats

brolly = ussj2 without decreased speed

fjssj goku >>>>>>> ussj2 brolly without decreased speeds its a route

Brolly isnt even stronger than fpssj1 cell or dabura

There was an Ultra Super Saiyan 2?
I always thought it was just straight USSJ.

[Keollyn]

There was an Ultra Super Saiyan 2?
I always thought it was just straight USSJ.

Vegeta against Imperfect Cell was USSJ1. Trunks against Perfect Cell was USSJ2.

[Warhammer]

Vegeta against Imperfect Cell was USSJ1. Trunks against Perfect Cell was USSJ2.

I always classified it like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Saiyan#Super_Saiyan_2nd_Grade.2FAscended_Sup er_Saiyan

I considered "Super Vegeta" as a stronger form than base SSJ.

[Sloth7d]

Wait, so you're telling me that ALL SSJ have the same power? SSJ Goten = SSJ Gohan?

It doesn't matter what level you are. If you've proven to be stronger, you are... you guessed it... stronger.
Yeah but the only time a higher level was trumped by a lower level is when someone fuses.
exa=vegito, gotenks, gogeta

[Jplaya2023]

There was an Ultra Super Saiyan 2?
I always thought it was just straight USSJ.

USSJ is the form vegeta fought imperfect cell at

USSJ2 is the form trunks fought perfect cell at

USSJ2 is also what brolly is but his speed isnt negated

[Keollyn]

I always classified it like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Saiyan#Super_Saiyan_2nd_Grade.2FAscended_Sup er_Saiyan

I considered "Super Vegeta" as a stronger form than base SSJ.

Truthfully, I think those forms are retarded. Halfway points are annoying in my opinion.

[Keollyn]

Yeah but the only time a higher level was trumped by a lower level is when someone fuses.
exa=vegito, gotenks, gogeta

And you kind of validated my point. No UNFUSED character can attest to such a feat. So who's to say that Burori couldn't take down a SSJ2 or SSJ3... given that he has feats that are vastly out of the current SSJ2 and SSJ3 league.

[Gotenks]

Truthfully, I think those forms are retarded. Halfway points are annoying in my opinion.
I agree.

[Sloth7d]

And you kind of validated my point. No UNFUSED character can attest to such a feat. So who's to say that Burori couldn't take down a SSJ2 or SSJ3... given that he has feats that are vastly out of the current SSJ2 and SSJ3 league.
Because he was beaten by Ssj1or2 Gohan. Who hasn't trained in 7 years.
Meanwhile Brolly has been in under extreme anger in lssj form for several years since the first mivie. Giving him a grand power up from what base lssj form has.
I'm just saying its like comparing the hulk to superman.
Sure if you give hulk the time it takes to get angry enough he could beat superman, but base hulk is going down(dare I say) faster than a speeding bullet against Supes.
I just doubt ssj3Goku would give Brolly the time he needs to get to that power level.

[Jplaya2023]

Because he was beaten by Ssj1or2 Gohan. Who hasn't trained in 7 years.
Meanwhile Brolly has been in under extreme anger in lssj form for several years since the first mivie. Giving him a grand power up from what base lssj form has.
I'm just saying its like comparing the hulk to superman.
Sure if you give hulk the time it takes to get angry enough he could beat superman, but base hulk is going down(dare I say) faster than a speeding bullet against Supes.
I just doubt ssj3Goku would give Brolly the time he needs to get to that power level.

Contrary to popular beleif brolly didnt get any stronger from movie 8 to movie 10. Gohan stated "his ki is exactly the same as before"

[Gotenks]

You mean 8 to 10. Right?
Gohan wasnt even in 10.

[Warhammer]

Movie 10 is Broly II.

[Jplaya2023]

You mean 8 to 10. Right?
Gohan wasnt even in 10.

what in the world are u talking about? gohan was in movie8 and 10

[Keollyn]

Because he was beaten by Ssj1or2 Gohan. Who hasn't trained in 7 years.
Meanwhile Brolly has been in under extreme anger in lssj form for several years since the first mivie. Giving him a grand power up from what base lssj form has.
I'm just saying its like comparing the hulk to superman.
Sure if you give hulk the time it takes to get angry enough he could beat superman, but base hulk is going down(dare I say) faster than a speeding bullet against Supes.
I just doubt ssj3Goku would give Brolly the time he needs to get to that power level.

Oh. My. God. Burori was not beaten by ONE person. Stop making it seem as if he was.

Gohan didn't train in seven years... Burori wasn't even moving for seven years... Who do you think should have been more rusty?

Goku has actually fought Burori more than once after movie #8. In hell. He stated that he did at the end of movie #11. He said "Burori is causing trouble again!? I guess I gotta go stop him" This means that he fought Burori before in hell. If Goku had to fight Burori multiple times... what does that tell you about Burori vs. Goku?

[Jplaya2023]

Oh. My. God. Burori was not beaten by ONE person. Stop making it seem as if he was.

Gohan didn't train in seven years... Burori wasn't even moving for seven years... Who do you think should have been more rusty?

Goku has actually fought Burori more than once after movie #8. In hell. He stated that he did at the end of movie #11. He said "Burori is causing trouble again!? I guess I gotta go stop him" This means that he fought Burori before in hell. If Goku had to fight Burori multiple times... what does that tell you about Burori vs. Goku?

what?? This was stated in movie 11? I'll have to rewatch that

[Warhammer]

what?? This was stated in movie 11? I'll have to rewatch that

Same here.

[Keollyn]

Contrary to popular beleif brolly didnt get any stronger from movie 8 to movie 10. Gohan stated "his ki is exactly the same as before"

Not in my version. Gohan said that Burori is just as strong as he was before. That doesn't imply that he has the same ki... it just imply that he's still as strong as Gohan remembers him.

He's a Saiya-jin. In NO continium of DBZ do Saiya-jin not experience the power boost.

[Keollyn]

what?? This was stated in movie 11? I'll have to rewatch that

I'll rewatch it too. I might have the words worded wrong. But Goku did say that to King Kai.

[Jplaya2023]

Not in my version. Gohan said that Burori is just as strong as he was before. That doesn't imply that he has the same ki... it just imply that he's still as strong as Gohan remembers him.

He's a Saiya-jin. In NO continium of DBZ do Saiya-jin don't experience the power boost.

Yeah thats what he says and to me that means brolly didnt receive a zenkai.

Chou Gohan vs Gotenks Buu didnt receivea zenkai because all his potential was released he couldnt get stronger anymore

[Keollyn]

Yeah thats what he says and to me that means brolly didnt receive a zenkai.

Chou Gohan vs Gotenks Buu didnt receivea zenkai because all his potential was released he couldnt get stronger anymore

Gohan got severely beaten, but he wasn't at a near-death state.

[Sloth7d]

Oh. My. God. Burori was not beaten by ONE person. Stop making it seem as if he was.

Gohan didn't train in seven years... Burori wasn't even moving for seven years... Who do you think should have been more rusty?

Goku has actually fought Burori more than once after movie #8. In hell. He stated that he did at the end of movie #11. He said "Burori is causing trouble again!? I guess I gotta go stop him" This means that he fought Burori before in hell. If Goku had to fight Burori multiple times... what does that tell you about Burori vs. Goku?
All the z-fighters attacked cell(including ussj vegeta) at the same time. Yet SSj2Gohan was able to kill him at half power. The jump from one form to another is too high for someone who's in a lower form to compete with them. The only way a lower form ssj can defeat a higher form is if their base power was out of this world. And base brolly needed to transform to fight ssjGoku and ssjvegeta. So I'd say his base power isn't that high.

[Keollyn]

All the z-fighters attacked cell(including ussj vegeta) at the same time. Yet SSj2Gohan was able to kill him at half power. The jump from one form to another is too high for someone who's in a lower form to compete with them. The only way a lower form ssj can defeat a higher form is if their base power was out of this world. And base brolly needed to transform to fight ssjGoku and ssjvegeta. So I'd say his base power isn't that high.

Please present to me feats that would put any of the canon DBZ characters in the league of Burori who, at a weakened SSJ state, destroyed a galaxy.

Once you do, you won this argument. Otherwise, you got nothing.

[Jplaya2023]

I'll rewatch it too. I might have the words worded wrong. But Goku did say that to King Kai.

I just watched it again you're right bubbles told him that. But that doesnt make much since but you're correct

[Jplaya2023]

All the z-fighters attacked cell(including ussj vegeta) at the same time. Yet SSj2Gohan was able to kill him at half power. The jump from one form to another is too high for someone who's in a lower form to compete with them. The only way a lower form ssj can defeat a higher form is if their base power was out of this world. And base brolly needed to transform to fight ssjGoku and ssjvegeta. So I'd say his base power isn't that high.

None of them were ascended, the movie doesnt fit in the storyline. If they were ascended, trunks would of fought brolly as an USSJ2 (the form he fought perfect cell in with the decreased speed), vegeta would of been an USSJ and u can tell by how scared he was he wasnt and finally goku and gohan would of been fpssj's (The form where they're ssj's all the time) but they was not as well. If this was post room spirit of time, they would of destroyed brolly with just 1 saiyan

[Gotenks]

what in the world are u talking about? gohan was in movie8 and 10

Lol I got the numbers confused i was thinking the movies were in order but I forgot bojack cuts in front.

[Jplaya2023]

Lol I got the numbers confused i was thinking the movies were in order but I forgot bojack cuts in front.

gohan was in movie 9 as well

[Gotenks]

I know I meant 11.

[Sloth7d]

Please present to me feats that would put any of the canon DBZ characters in the league of Burori who, at a weakened SSJ state, destroyed a galaxy.

Once you do, you won this argument. Otherwise, you got nothing.
But we're not talking about cannon plots. So I can debate your arguments with other non-cannon feats. Since(for some reason) we are debating non cannon characters.

[CBG]

So, what is the list of those who'd be even with Goku?

[Jplaya2023]

So, what is the list of those who'd be even with Goku?


There is no one stronger or even with goku

[CBG]

I can list a few dozen characters who can take on the DBZverse and defeat it all.

Goku is HARDLY the most powerful character in fiction.

[Keollyn]

Good fights? I'd pay to see Smallville Supes go against end of DB Goku.

[Jplaya2023]

I can list a few dozen characters who can take on the DBZverse and defeat it all.

Goku is HARDLY the most powerful character in fiction.

You would be wrong if you drew that list good sir its futile

[CBG]

Pssh.

You actually believe Goku is the most powerful character in fiction, newbie?

He's hardly the most powerful.

[Jplaya2023]

Pssh.

You actually believe Goku is the most powerful character in fiction, newbie?

He's hardly the most powerful.

Newbie? Read my sig in my rookie year on the hype i amassed alot of awards.

And goku is the most powerful character in fiction (along with batman and spiderman)

those 3 would annihilate the rest of the universe in the comics, anime's fiction whatever (Sans Elite Z fighters)

[Keollyn]

He needs to expand. There are ALOT of things outside of DBZ.

[Sloth7d]

Goku.....nevermind....I don't want to even rebut anymore beacause.....
Tonight it seems everyone is underestimating Goku or overestimating him to god status.

[CBG]

Newbie? Read my sig in my rookie year on the hype i amassed alot of awards.

So?

Substance over style anyday. To quote Lady Shiva from the Question series by Dennis O'Neil

"The accomplished shun attention. The truly great shun the world itself."

You know more about Batman than I ever will?

Newbie, I know Batman than you did, and STILL do now.

The fact that you put Batman as the top DCU martial artist is incorrect. Batman is not even in the top 5 in terms of the top 10 martial artists of the DCU.

And goku is the most powerful character in fiction (along with batman and spiderman)

those 3 would annihilate the rest of the universe in the comics, anime's fiction whatever (Sans Elite Z fighters)

Goku is NOT omnipotent.

Already, he's not the most powerful character in fiction.

Batman lost.

Spider-Man lost.

Post count denotes little. Sure, I may be a newbie in terms of posting at these boards, but I can daresay that I arguably know far more about comic books that you know and perhaps ever will.

[Keollyn]

Goku loses in his own series.... that's proof that he's not number 1 in fiction.

[Jplaya2023]

Goku loses in his own series.... that's proof that he's not number 1 in fiction.

superman lost in his series so does hulk you cant win them all.

[CBG]

So?

Neither Superman or Hulk is the strongest of their respective universes.

And to be specific, I'm not referring to physical strength

[Jplaya2023]

So?

Neither Superman or Hulk is the strongest of their respective universes.



Oh u said strongest

batman and spiderman have lost fights but they were bad writing non canon bulsheits

[CBG]

Incorrect, newbie.

Marvel doesn't drop retcon bombs like DC, and Batman still loses in some battles after Crisis on Infinite Earths and Zero Hour.

Neither Batman or Spider-Man is the most powerful of their respective universes. The fact that they aren't cosmic proves that.

Bad writing non-canon bull? Read more and take a lesson regarding continuity, newbie.

[SsM]

stop calling each other newbies.. its not very becoming of either of you.

[CBG]

Well, in all seriousness, I am a newbie to these forums.

However, I regard jplaya2023 a newbie due to his/her knowledge regarding comic books. I disagree with him/her 'respectable' status regarding comic books.

[Jplaya2023]

Well, in all seriousness, I am a newbie to these forums.

However, I regard jplaya2023 a newbie due to his/her knowledge regarding comic books. I disagree with him/her 'respectable' status regarding comic books.

fugg is up with this her sheeit i aint no damn woman

[CBG]

I don't assume every poster being a male. Hence, why I use that state of address. I usually do it for every poster as consciously as I can, unless they specify their gender.

[Jplaya2023]

I don't assume every poster being a male. Hence, why I use that state of address. I usually do it for every poster as consciously as I can, unless they specify their gender.

well with a name "jplaya" it should be quite obvious

And i assume every poster is a middle aged man until i get pics and home made signs to prove its a girl

[Keollyn]

His/her = woman? Since when???

[HULKSTER'04]

Jplaya is a G-man, see that's why he reacted to the statement "His/Her".LoL

[CBG]

well with a name "jplaya" it should be quite obvious

And i assume every poster is a middle aged man until i get pics and home made signs to prove its a girl

Automatically assume that I'm female?

[Keollyn]

I beg your pardon for bringing up a topic that we kind of let go, but here's the whole "Gohan is a SSJ2 in movie #10" debate. I came to believe that he isn't a SSJ2, but he's sure as heck not a SSJ1.

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=133773&page=138

[CBG]

Is that CBR forums?

That forum is notorious for its Living Tribunal vs. Goku topic. . . with pages. Hence why I stay away from such ridiculousness.

[Jplaya2023]

Is that CBR forums?

That forum is notorious for its Living Tribunal vs. Goku topic. . . with pages. Hence why I stay away from such ridiculousness.



I agree the living tribunal doesnt hold a candle to goku. He couldnt beat him in anytype of fight he'll have to think him out of existence thus cheating

[CBG]

DBverse can't beat Living Tribunal.

FACT.

[Jplaya2023]

DBverse can't beat Living Tribunal.

FACT.


you're bias

FACT

[CBG]

Nope. You just can't accept the concept -- the actual reality -- of Goku being defeated.

And I'M biased? How ironic -- you're heavily biased in favour of DBZ, Batman, and Spider-Man.

[Keollyn]

Is that CBR forums?

That forum is notorious for its Living Tribunal vs. Goku topic. . . with pages. Hence why I stay away from such ridiculousness.

I had the pleasure of never running into that debate.

[Ultra-Herald9]

I agree the living tribunal doesnt hold a candle to goku. He couldnt beat him in anytype of fight he'll have to think him out of existence thus cheating


He's just saying this to stir up some backlash from coimic fans. Why do you say things that make you sound dumb? First off thinking people out of existence isn't cheating its just using your powers to beat your oppoonent. See your so used to that STUPID dbz charge and yell for twenty minutes then tell my life story then fight for two minutes crap. One thing you have to understand is that in Comic Book universes anything goes in a fight! Do you call it cheating whenever Batman uses a chemical grenade to defeat his oponents?


Secondly LT has watched the multiverse and has seen everything within it meaning he knows EVERY technique even thought about in the multiverse so he could EASILY outclass Goku in hand to hand combat.

[Jplaya2023]

He's just saying this to stir up some backlash from coimic fans. Why do you say things that make you sound dumb? First off thinking people out of existence isn't cheating its just using your powers to beat your oppoonent.

I'm talking about a fight not that other stuff man. Thinking someone out of existence isnt fighting playa.

[narutofan236]

Newbie? Read my sig in my rookie year on the hype i amassed alot of awards.

And goku is the most powerful character in fiction (along with batman and spiderman)

those 3 would annihilate the rest of the universe in the comics, anime's fiction whatever (Sans Elite Z fighters)



He's right goku is the strongest.

[Keollyn]

^ You're right. As per the end of GT, Goku is the strongest in the Dragon Ball universe. Otherwise, he's not.

[CBG]

And goku is the most powerful character in fiction (along with batman and spiderman)

those 3 would annihilate the rest of the universe in the comics, anime's fiction whatever (Sans Elite Z fighters)

He's right goku is the strongest.

There are characters who are more powerful than Goku. He's not the strongest character in fiction. Powerful, yes. But not the most powerful.

[CBG]

deleting post

[narutofan236]

Goku IS the strongest, name one person that would beat him.

[CBG]

Pre-Retcon Beyonder.

[Gotenks]

They have been named countless times.
I dont see the point to do it again.

[CBG]

To illustrate the point that some characters like Goku aren't unbeatable.

[Gotenks]

I know he can be beaten!
All narutofan236 has to do is go back a couple of pages.

[CBG]

Goku can beat a lot of characters, yes. However, there are characters that he lose to, some that guarantee a certain loss.

[Gotenks]

Im guessing your talking to someone else......because I have said it before and I will say it again.
I know he can be beaten.

[CBG]

Just reiterating to narutofan236.

[Jplaya2023]

Goku IS the strongest, name one person that would beat him.


your going to get a list of peolpe who have some type of gay power but they cant fight. So ignore those post.

No one in fiction can beat goku in a straightup fight

[CBG]

your going to get a list of peolpe who have some type of gay power but they cant fight. So ignore those post.

No one in fiction can beat goku in a straightup fight

No, you're just denying facts.

In a fight, one uses their powers, abilities, and capabilities in battle. Goku's a martial artist who can manipulate ki primarily for destructive blasts (and other uses -- e.g. the energy rings Majin Vegeta used to bind Goku).

There are characters who are simply more powerful than Goku in what they do -- they perhaps have a power or powers that completely counters and overwhelms Goku's arsenal, or perhaps they are similar to Goku but more powerful in terms of magnitude.

Accept fact: Goku's beatable.

[Warhammer]

your going to get a list of peolpe who have some type of gay power but they cant fight. So ignore those post.

No one in fiction can beat goku in a straightup fight

So the only right way to win is by punching and kicking?
Using energy/abilities is cheating for other characters, but it is ok if Goku does a kamehameha to someone?

Never post again. :down

[Warhammer]

Goku IS the strongest, name one person that would beat him.

...only not really.
Sorry.

[Jplaya2023]

So the only right way to win is by punching and kicking?
Using energy/abilities is cheating for other characters, but it is ok if Goku does a kamehameha to someone?

Never post again. :down


you're obviously an idiot Jonty. Let me clarify. Energy attacks are fine to use. Im talking about people like the beyonder who according to some can think people out of existance. Thats what i mean by cheating

[Warhammer]

you're obviously an idiot Jonty. Let me clarify. Energy attacks are fine to use. Im talking about people like the beyonder who according to some can think people out of existance. Thats what i mean by cheating

Wow.
Jplaya, out of all the posters on SHH, calls me an idiot.

Beyonder doesn't need to think Goku out of existance.
He can manipulate matter, making Goku into an apple if he wanted to.
Matter manipulation is a type of energy that Beyonder can use, no different from a kamehameha being shot by Goku.

...and thinking someone out of existance is not cheating. Someone beats someone else by whatever means necessary. Not every "fair" battle is straight brawling.

[Jplaya2023]

Wow.
Jplaya, out of all the posters on SHH, calls me an idiot.

Beyonder doesn't need to think Goku out of existance.
He can manipulate matter, making Goku into an apple if he wanted to.
Matter manipulation is a type of energy that Beyonder can use, no different from a kamehameha being shot by Goku.

...and thinking someone out of existance is not cheating. Someone beats someone else by whatever means necessary. Not every "fair" battle is straight brawling.


Like i said strip beyonder of those gay abilities and strip goku of his powers have them fight 1 on 1 and beyonder is dead

[CBG]

you're obviously an idiot Jonty. Let me clarify. Energy attacks are fine to use. Im talking about people like the beyonder who according to some can think people out of existance. Thats what i mean by cheating

Energy attacks are legit?

Even if we have characters use energy attacks, they'll still win.

Lucifer Morningstar unleashes an energy blast, Goku's dead.

Living Tribunal releases an energy bolt, Goku's dead.

Michael blasts him with the Demiurgos power, Goku's dead.

Beyonder blasts him with an energy blast, Goku's dead.

And the list goes on, and on, and on, and on.

Not every "fair" battle is straight brawling.

Not every battle can be fair.

Like i said strip beyonder of those gay abilities and strip goku of his powers have them fight 1 on 1 and beyonder is dead

Having Goku as a non-powered martial artist?

Val Armorr -- Karate Kid from the Legion of Super-Heroes -- will beat him.

And so, you acknowledge that even with Goku's arsenal, he loses to characters like the Beyonder?

[Warhammer]

Like i said strip beyonder of those gay abilities and strip goku of his powers have them fight 1 on 1 and beyonder is dead

Ok.
If Goku is stripped of his powers, (SSJ, super strength, super speed, ki, instant transmission, etc.) Shang Chi, Bats, Slade, Iron Fist, Wolverine, (etc.) would give Goku a run for his money.

[Mistress Gluon]

your going to get a list of peolpe who have some type of gay power but they cant fight. So ignore those post.

No one in fiction can beat goku in a straightup fight

That's because they have so MUCH power, they never needed to learn how to fight, as they would never use that skill.

And a straightup fight is a set of people using everything they've got. No tricks, no hidden cards, just everything. And while Goku has some nice little things to keep him going, there are people in other fictions who can definitely wipe the floor with him.

[Mistress Gluon]

Goku IS the strongest, name one person that would beat him.

Strongest? Best fighter? Most powerful energy user? In DC ALONE they have someone for each one of those skills who are better. Wildstorm too, and even Marvel.

[Jplaya2023]

Even if we have characters use energy attacks, they'll still win.

Lucifer Morningstar unleashes an energy blast, Goku's dead.

Living Tribunal releases an energy bolt, Goku's dead.

Michael blasts him with the Demiurgos power, Goku's dead.

Beyonder blasts him with an energy blast, Goku's dead.

And the list goes on, and on, and on, and on.




Yes energy attack are legit because its apart of the fight. Thinking someone out of existence isnt part of fighting.

Lol @ that list you are aware that none of those attacks would hit goku right? He'll dodge them all. Just making sure were on the same page.

[Mistress Gluon]

Ok.
If Goku is stripped of his powers, (SSJ, super strength, super speed, ki, instant transmission, etc.) Shang Chi, Bats, Slade, Iron Fist, Wolverine, (etc.) would give Goku a run for his money.

You forgot Taskmaster, who would probably win the easiest out of those due to Goku's lack of intelligence.

[Mistress Gluon]

Yes energy attack are legit because its apart of the fight. Thinking someone out of existence isnt part of fighting.

Lol @ that list you are aware that none of those attacks would hit goku right? He'll dodge them all. Just making sure were on the same page.

Then the energies released by the other characters are also legitimate.

And those entities that seemingly couldn't hit Goku, EASILY could.

[Jplaya2023]

Ok.
If Goku is stripped of his powers, (SSJ, super strength, super speed, ki, instant transmission, etc.) Shang Chi, Bats, Slade, Iron Fist, Wolverine, (etc.) would give Goku a run for his money.

Umm goku was a highly skilled martial artist before he did or learn any of those techniques he would be fine.

[Warhammer]

You forgot Taskmaster, who would probably win the easiest out of those due to Goku's lack of intelligence.

Yeah, I forgot all about Taskmaster.

[Warhammer]

Umm goku was a highly skilled martial artist before he did or learn any of those techniques he would be fine.

I know he is a good fighter w/o the powers.
Everyone that I listed are also master martial artists.
What point did you miss?

[Mistress Gluon]

Lesse. Mandarin, Slade's daughter, Cassandra Caine, Nightwing, Temugin, Danny Rand's friend who's name I've forgotten, Mantis, Moondragon. (Maybe not Moondragon. But she'd definitely give one hell of a fight.) Doctor Strange, the Ancient One, and a few others.

[Jplaya2023]

Then the energies released by the other characters are also legitimate.

And those entities that seemingly couldn't hit Goku, EASILY could.

they sure are legit, thinking someone out of existence isnt legit.

No they really couldnt unless they shot beams faster than lightspeed which i highly doubt. But if they do please show scans

[Jplaya2023]

I know he is a good fighter w/o the powers.
Everyone that I listed are also master martial artists.
What point did you miss?

I missed no point. Goku is the best martial artist in his world with or without powers. I just happen to think he'll beat those guys mentinoed

[Warhammer]

they sure are legit, thinking someone out of existence isnt legit.

No they really couldnt unless they shot beams faster than lightspeed which i highly doubt. But if they do please show scans

I am pretty sure they can.
People like Beyonder and such can manipulate energy, thus, making their energy beams go as fast as they wanted.

[CBG]

Yes energy attack are legit because its apart of the fight.

CORRECTION, part of a DB FIGHT. They're using everything they have -- hand-to-hand combat skills and ki manipulation in the form of destructive blasts.

Thinking someone out of existence isnt part of fighting.

It's no different than utilzing what you have.

A DB warior has h2h combat skills, flight, above physical capabilities, and destructive ki blasts. They use everything in their arsenal.

One guy has the power to manipulate reality. The guy uses everything he has, he wins.

Lol @ that list you are aware that none of those attacks would hit goku right? He'll dodge them all. Just making sure were on the same page.

They make an energy blast of epic sizes.

They paralyze Goku's body.

They blast him before he can react.

Goku can't shake them off, they track him and kill him.

He's still dead.

[Mistress Gluon]

they sure are legit, thinking someone out of existence isnt legit.

No they really couldnt unless they shot beams faster than lightspeed which i highly doubt. But if they do please show scans

Dude. No, I don't even want to go into this. These beings can travel INSTANTLY over time and space, into the past, and into the future, and even into other dimensions.

I won't even bother with scans, you won't accept them.

[Jplaya2023]

I am pretty sure they can.
People like Beyonder and such can manipulate energy, thus, making their energy beams go as fast as they wanted.

show me a scan of the beyonder shooting a beam at FTL speed. Thats all i ask

[Warhammer]

I missed no point. Goku is the best martial artist in his world with or without powers. I just happen to think he'll beat those guys mentinoed

He is the best martial artists in the DBZ world.
When compared to the people I listed, he isn't that much better to make a difference.

Goku is your hero and savior. Nothing I can do/explain/reason/list can overtake your extreme devotion and fanboyism to the great, almighty, king of kings, lord of lords called Goku. :o :down

[Jplaya2023]

Dude. No, I don't even want to go into this. These beings can travel INSTANTLY over time and space, into the past, and into the future, and even into other dimensions.

I won't even bother with scans, you won't accept them.

So basically your giving me a copout because of your assumption of how i might take them? Okay thanks

NEXT

[CBG]

No they really couldnt unless they shot beams faster than lightspeed which i highly doubt. But if they do please show scans

Oh, they can do it. Omnipotence and nigh-omnipotence does wonders.

Blasts at lightspeed? No problem.

Blasts more powerful than what Goku can ever throw? No problem.

Faster than Goku? No problem.

Win the fight without thinking Goku out of existence? No problem.

And on, and on, and on. . .

I missed no point. Goku is the best martial artist in his world with or without powers. I just happen to think he'll beat those guys mentinoed

The best martial artist of one universe could lose to an average martial artist of another universe.

Goku's as a non-powered martial artist is good, but he's no Val Armorr.

[Warhammer]

show me a scan of the beyonder shooting a beam at FTL speed. Thats all i ask

You can't take my word for it because I am rooting against Goku, eh?
Why do I have to show a pic? You can actually read a damn comic/do some research and find out yourself. :confused:

[CBG]

show me a scan of the beyonder shooting a beam at FTL speed. Thats all i ask

Easy.

Look up the word 'omnipotence'. That's the proof anyone needs.

So basically your giving me a copout because of your assumption of how i might take them? Okay thanks

NEXT

Nope. Just you that can't comprehend fact.

[Jplaya2023]

Oh, they can do it. Omnipotence and nigh-omnipotence does wonders.

Blasts at lightspeed? No problem.

Blasts more powerful than what Goku can ever throw? No problem.

Faster than Goku? No problem.

Win the fight without thinking Goku out of existence? No problem.

And on, and on, and on. . .


Scans or pipe down


The best martial artist of one universe could lose to an average martial artist of another universe.

Goku's as a non-powered martial artist is good, but he's no Val Armorr.

Goku knows every form of martial arts in the DBZ universe. To every think for one second he would lose to someone in strictly martial arts is stupid and bias

[Jplaya2023]

Easy.

Look up the word 'omnipotence'. That's the proof anyone needs.


Easier, look it up and post it thanks.


Nope. Just you that can't comprehend fact.

Nope, you just hate goku

[Jplaya2023]

You can't take my word for it because I am rooting against Goku, eh?
Why do I have to show a pic? You can actually read a damn comic/do some research and find out yourself. :confused:

Did i say i didnt take your word? I asked a simple question and u think im attacking you. I'm sure if i said Cell could take out the multiuniverse in 1 blast i'll have you, comic book guy, endless mike, scuzemabachi, and gloun all asking for scans.

[Warhammer]

Did i say i didnt take your word? I asked a simple question and u think im attacking you. I'm sure if i said Cell could take out the multiuniverse in 1 blast i'll have you, comic book guy, endless mike, scuzemabachi, and gloun all asking for scans.

I'm sorry man, but if you said something like that, I, of course being a fan of DBZ, would already know you were lying. If you said that, I'd consider that bullcrap just like your claims that Batman, Spider-Man, and Goku are the best 3 ever, or that Goku is the most powerful person in fiction.

[Jplaya2023]

I'm sorry man, but if you said something like that, I, of course being a fan of DBZ, would already know you were lying. If you said that, I'd consider that bullcrap just like your claims that Batman, Spider-Man, and Goku are the best 3 ever, or that Goku is the most powerful person in fiction.

Umm it is the opinion of mine and conutless others that goku is the strongest in fiction. Not only because of his techniques, but because his DNA allows him to be.

[Warhammer]

Did i say i didnt take your word? I asked a simple question and u think im attacking you. I'm sure if i said Cell could take out the multiuniverse in 1 blast i'll have you, comic book guy, endless mike, scuzemabachi, and gloun all asking for scans.

Who the heck is that? :D :confused:

[Gotenks]

Goku is number one in the DBZ universe.
I would say he is in the top 5 of all anime.
Possibly in the top 20 of all fiction meaning.

[CBG]

Scans or pipe down

And so, we have to scan the ultimate proof of what 2 + 2 equals two?

Some things are understood. Like the definition of simple words.

Goku knows every form of martial arts in the DBZ universe. To every think for one second he would lose to someone in strictly martial arts is stupid and bias

And Karate Kid knows and mastered every form of martial arts and armed and unarmed combat in the universe of the future, where civilizations and culture are arguably far more advanced than that of the DBverse.

And then we add on to the fact that he's human.

Easier, look it up and post it thanks.

Now this surprises me. You don't know what the word 'omnipotence' means?

Nope, you just hate goku

Nope, you just hate the idea of characters more powerful than Goku.

Did i say i didnt take your word? I asked a simple question and u think im attacking you. I'm sure if i said Cell could take out the multiuniverse in 1 blast i'll have you, comic book guy, endless mike, scuzemabachi, and gloun all asking for scans.

Because your credibility is very, very, very, very shaky compare to mine and the rest.

And no, Super Kazentai Cell claimed he could destroy the solar system with his blast.

[Warhammer]

edit.

[Sloth7d]

Can't we all just get al....ah nevermind.....

[CBG]

Umm it is the opinion of mine and conutless others that goku is the strongest in fiction. Not only because of his techniques, but because his DNA allows him to be.

Countless?

Once they are aware of other characters and other universes, that'll dwindle down quite, quite fast.

Plus, we have those 'countless' of yours -- I estimate a few to tens, maybe a hundred thousand, considering the fame of DBZ -- against the millions, perhaps billions of people. Due to the concept of god/higher authority, and knowledge of other fiction.

Goku is number one in the DBZ universe.

Mystic Gohan is the most powerful non-fused character in DBZ. Then he slacked off when he became a scholar, a husband, and a father, while Goku trained.

I would say he is in the top 5 of all anime.

Barring omnipotents and nigh-omnipotents, and super cosmics.

Possibly in the top 20 of all fiction meaning.

Barring omnipotents, nigh-omnipotents, super cosmics, and reality warpers?

Hmm. . . DC and Marvel would fill up spots, that's a definite.

Who the heck is that?

Another poster from where Keollyn and I come from.

[Jplaya2023]

Who the heck is that? :D :confused:

Comic Book Guys girlfriend from another site.

[Jplaya2023]

double post

[Jplaya2023]

trilpe post

[Mistress Gluon]

Goku is number one in the DBZ universe.
I would say he is in the top 5 of all anime.
Possibly in the top 20 of all fiction meaning.

Rock Lee is tons better.

[CBG]

Comic Book Guys girlfriend from another site.

Nope, just you superimposing your incorrect view on reality.

[Jplaya2023]

Countless?

Once they are aware of other characters and other universes, that'll dwindle down quite, quite fast.


No, people arent sheeps like u think

Plus, we have those 'countless' of yours -- I estimate a few to tens,

try bilions including our friends overseas

Mystic Gohan is the most powerful non-fused character in DBZ.

Yes he is.

Barring omnipotents and nigh-omnipotents, and super cosmics.

Goku is omnipotent at the endof GT.

Barring omnipotents, nigh-omnipotents, super cosmics, and reality warpers?

see above


Hmm. . . DC and Marvel would fill up spots, that's a definite.

Your right

1.Goku
2.Batman/Spiderman


Another poster from where Keollyn and I come from.

your wifey

[Jplaya2023]

Rock Lee is tons better.

wtf? tons better at what? Carrying on suspect relationships with his sensai?

[narutofan236]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtkV_yz4oS4

[Gotenks]

[quote]Mystic Gohan is the most powerful non-fused character in DBZ. Then he slacked off when he became a scholar, a husband, and a father, while Goku trained.
Pretty much the same thing I said with more detail

Barring omnipotents and nigh-omnipotents, and super cosmics.


Barring omnipotents, nigh-omnipotents, super cosmics, and reality warpers?

Hmm. . . DC and Marvel would fill up spots, that's a definite.

Yeah im sorry I will clarify what I meant......out of DC, Marvel and Anime.
Yes all the people will be in it.
I know he is number one in his universe and I dont care if he is last ni the other list 5 or 20 I just know he's there

[Jplaya2023]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtkV_yz4oS4

great video but they shouldnt of used magneto's sprites for superman

[Gotenks]

Rock Lee is tons better.
Haha.:woot:
Good one. I like Rock Lee as well, but to think he can beat goku is crazy.
Naruto has nothing on DBZ.

[Mistress Gluon]

Martial arts. Given his limitations in comparison to Goku, his skill FAR outshines Goku's.

[Jplaya2023]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtkV_yz4oS4

great video but they shouldnt of used magneto's sprites for superman

[Jplaya2023]

Martial arts. Given his limitations in comparison to Goku, his skill FAR outshines Goku's.

ludacris.

Rock lee is average/weak at hand 2 hand fighting while goku is an expert at hand 2 hand and the goku in DB would hand rock lee's ass to him.

[CBG]

No, people arent sheeps like u think

try bilions including our friends overseas

And a great majority of those billions of fans know that Goku is defeatable due to knowledge of other fiction or believing in the concept of a supreme being.

Goku is omnipotent at the endof GT.

Nope.

You see, most people and fans for years assumed that Goku at the end of GT is omnipotent. If you look into it right and investigated, there's no proof to hold it up.

see above

Answered it.

Your right

1.Goku
2.Batman/Spiderman

There are SO MANY characters LEAGUES ABOVE Batman and Spider-Man.

Hell, I can name martial artists who Batman would lose to.

And Goku is nowhere near the top spot. Nowhere near.

your wifey

Immaturity, eh, newbie?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtkV_yz4oS4

Big deal. Evil Ryu or Evil Ken can kill the both of them one on two in Mugen.

[Mistress Gluon]

Haha.:woot:
Good one. I like Rock Lee as well, but to think he can beat goku is crazy.
Naruto has nothing on DBZ.

lol No no no. I meant in fighting skill. Power wise, of course Goku has the upper hand.

[Gotenks]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtkV_yz4oS4

Cool video.

[Gotenks]

lol No no no. I meant in fighting skill. Power wise, of course Goku has the upper hand.

Oh ok thats what I figured.

[Jplaya2023]

lol No no no. I meant in fighting skill. Power wise, of course Goku has the upper hand.

rock lee is average at H2H combat while goku is a genuis.

GOKU'S FIGHTING SKILL>>>>>>>>>LEE'S

[Mistress Gluon]

Hardly. Goku has this natural ability to just transform into higher levels with relative ease, and little backlash. Rock Lee is capable of overcoming his own set in stone limitations at the very sacrifice of his body succesfully. So it would go to show that Goku doesn't penetrate every limit like Rock would.

[Gotenks]

Rock lee is average/weak at hand 2 hand fighting.

Take that back.....NOW!!!:cmad:

[Jplaya2023]

And a great majority of those billions of fans know that Goku is defeatable due to knowledge of other fiction or believing in the concept of a supreme being.


NO u want them to beleive that.


Nope.

You see, most people and fans for years assumed that Goku at the end of GT is omnipotent. If you look into it right and investigated, there's no proof to hold it up.


show me proff of beyonder shooting beams at lightspeed since u wanna talk about proof





There are SO MANY characters LEAGUES ABOVE Batman and Spider-Man.

Hell, I can name martial artists who Batman would lose to.

And Goku is nowhere near the top spot. Nowhere near.


No there isnt your bias is showing again


Immaturity, eh, newbie?

factuality


Big deal. Evil Ryu or Evil Ken can kill the both of them one on two in Mugen.

Ryu is on the tier with goku spiderman and batman as G.O.A.T

[Mistress Gluon]

Ryu is on the tier with goku spiderman and batman as G.O.A.T

The whole Beyonder doing energy beams faster than the speed of light? He can erase GALAXIES in a second, that is over a billion times the speed of light. So it stands to reason he can shoot energy well beyond the speed of light.

[Jplaya2023]

Hardly. Goku has this natural ability to just transform into higher levels with relative ease, and little backlash. Rock Lee is capable of overcoming his own set in stone limitations at the very sacrifice of his body succesfully. So it would go to show that Goku doesn't penetrate every limit like Rock would.

Please re read or rewatch dragonball GT before goku started gaining major major power. Watch those tournaments, watch how he handled roshi, krilian piccolo, yamcha etc....

Lee uses a technique to overcome those limitations goku has no limits essentially.

Lee cant even beat neiji H2H and neiji cant beat goku so how would lee beat goku

[Jplaya2023]

Take that back.....NOW!!!:cmad:

Take what back? Its been stated throughout the manga that lee is average at H2H combat watch the fight with gaara again. Not taking away from lee but saying he has more skills in H2H than goku is retarded

[Sloth7d]

I don't know who fights better. Neither Goku or Rock lee are slouches when it comes down to it. But essentially all naruto characters are seriously outmatched in a comparrison of ability when it comes to dbz, marvel, or Dc.

[Jplaya2023]

I don't know who fights better. Neither Goku or Rock lee are slouches when it comes down to it. But essentially all naruto characters are seriously outmatched in comparrison.

Man one punch from kid goku in DB would essentially impale rock lee. Goku was pushing around 100 ton rocks during his training with master roshi. From what i've seen of lee he's doing sit ups pushups and punching a tree.

[CBG]

NO u want them to beleive that.

I really dare you to tell that to those who believe in religion.

show me proff of beyonder shooting beams at lightspeed since u wanna talk about proof

Easy. The word 'omnipotence' is proof enough. And yes, IT IS PROOF, in relation to the Beyonder.

If you want hard-copy of a comic, read up the series [i]Secret Wars II[/quote]

factuality

Actually, it's immaturity and a serious case of denial with reality, if you superimpose your perceptions all over others.

Plus, we can link up with what the actual posts were between you, me, and Suzumebachi. You're just overinterpreting, as you always do.

Ryu is on the tier with goku spiderman and batman as G.O.A.T


What, Ryu?

As of Third Strike, he's tier 2. He can be beaten by the likes of Akuma, Oro, and Gill.

In the SFIII tournament, he beat Hugo with considerable difficulty (Hugo withstood the Shin Shoryuken and continued to battle) and he later lost to Oro in the tourny.

[Gotenks]

I know dbz outclasses naruto, but Lee is not weak in hand to hand combat. Just against Goku.

[Jplaya2023]

In the SFIII tournament, he beat Hugo with considerable difficulty (Hugo withstood the Shin Shoryuken and continued to battle) and he later lost to Oro in the tourny.

3rd strike is terrible lets just use Anime Ryu when him and ken fought buson

[Jplaya2023]

I know dbz outclasses naruto, but Lee is not weak in hand to hand combat. Just against Goku.

Dawg lee isnt even the best H2H combatant in his universe. Goku is the best H2H in fiction. Lee stands no chance.

[CBG]

3rd strike is terrible lets just use Anime Ryu when him and ken fought buson

The hell?! You call TS terrible? I daresay you can't play the game, let alone parry.

And which anime Ryu?

Alpha Movie/Generations, V, or II Animated?

[CBG]

Goku is the best H2H in fiction

Val Armorr is more skilled than he is.

In a non-powered match up, Val would defeat Goku.

Post-Crisis, won't take long.

Pre-Crisis, no chance in hell.

[Jplaya2023]

The hell?! You call TS terrible? I daresay you can't play the game, let alone parry.

And which anime Ryu?

Alpha Movie/Generations, V, or II Animated?

DAWG 3rd strike is 2nd tier like the alpha series.

everyone know the best street fighters are the marvel vs capcoms the xmen vs street fighter one's.

And yes the Streetfighter 2 or marvel vs capcmo ryu

Parrying is cheap and cheating.

[Jplaya2023]

Val Armorr is more skilled than he is.

In a non-powered match up, Val would defeat Goku.

Post-Crisis, won't take long.

Pre-Crisis, no chance in hell.

I dont know Val Amorr what universe?

Are u insinuating that superman has any chance in hell in a H2H fight with goku (both having no powers). Hillarious.

[Gotenks]

Dawg lee isnt even the best H2H combatant in his universe. Goku is the best H2H in fiction. Lee stands no chance.

Ok I will end it with saying Rock lee is not weak. He's is compared to other characters, but still not weak.

[Jplaya2023]

Ok I will end it with saying Rock lee is not weak. He's is compared to other characters, but still not weak.

Rock lee isnt weak but to say he can beat goku in any type of fight is retarded.

[CBG]

DAWG 3rd strike is 2nd tier like the alpha series.
Newbie, everyone knows that comparing Alpha 3 to Third Strike is like apples and oranges.

Alpha 3 is like the modern version of classic gameplay, with additions.

Third Strike is a whole new gameplay, with graphics and animation to boot.

everyone know the best street fighters are the marvel vs capcoms the xmen vs street fighter one's.

And everyone knows, if you launch an infinite or just cancel the infinite at the last minute before all life is gone, it's not much of a challenge.

And yes the Streetfighter 2 or marvel vs capcmo ryu

What, gamewise?

MvsC, Wolverine, War Machine, Strider, and others have far more combo potential than Ryu, even with his power switch.

SF2, he's pretty good gamewise.

Storywise, SF2, he lost to Ken, and in MvsC, he's one of the many heroes summoned by Xavier to battle Onslaught.

Parrying is cheap and cheating.

The ****?! CHEAP AND CHEATING?! AND I SUPPOSE INFINITES ARE LEGIT?!

I dont know Val Amorr what universe?

See, you don't know about the Legion of Super-Heroes. And so, how can you support the incorrect claim of Goku > all if you don't know 'all'?

Are u insinuating that superman has any chance in hell in a H2H fight with goku (both having no powers). Hillarious.[/quote]

The hell?

I talk about Karate Kid of Legion of Super-Heroes, and you think I'm talking about Superman?

This is the problem of overinterpreting.

Val Armorr is known as Karate Kid from the Legion of Super-Heroes, set in the far, far future of the DCU. He's pulled off ridiculous feats, despite being human.

[Jplaya2023]

Newbie, everyone knows that comparing Alpha 3 to Third Strike is like apples and oranges.

Alpha 3 is like the modern version of classic gameplay, with additions.

Third Strike is a whole new gameplay, with graphics and animation to boot.

Both alpha and 3rd strike are terrible


And everyone knows, if you launch an infinite or just cancel the infinite at the last minute before all life is gone, it's not much of a challenge.

stratedgy man its dope

What, gamewise?

yep game wise

MvsC, Wolverine, War Machine, Strider, and others have far more combo potential than Ryu, even with his power switch.


who cares about combo's

the ultimate MVC team = ryu and wolverine

ultimate mvc2 team = ryu cable and jill, or ryu ken akuma, or ryu and both wolverine's

SF2, he's pretty good gamewise.

he's dope in sf2 ryu that is.

Storywise, SF2, he lost to Ken, and in MvsC, he's one of the many heroes summoned by Xavier to battle Onslaught.

ryu lost 2 ken?

The ****?! CHEAP AND CHEATING?! AND I SUPPOSE INFINITES ARE LEGIT?!

i do supermoves in 3rd strike and it gets parried how da fock can u parry a super fireball like i said cheap and cheating.


See, you don't know about the Legion of Super-Heroes. And so, how can you support the incorrect claim of Goku > all if you don't know 'all'?

Are u insinuating that superman has any chance in hell in a H2H fight with goku (both having no powers). Hillarious.

The hell?

I talk about Karate Kid of Legion of Super-Heroes, and you think I'm talking about Superman?

This is the problem of overinterpreting.

Val Armorr is known as Karate Kid from the Legion of Super-Heroes, set in the far, far future of the DCU. He's pulled off ridiculous feats, despite being human.[/quote]


oh ok legion of superhero's DC cat alright i got u

[CBG]

Both alpha and 3rd strike are terrible

For what, exactly?

stratedgy man its dope

Whoever gets the infinite in first, wins.

Yeah, strategy. A real Battleship game, if you ask me.

Sarcasm, if you don't get it.

who cares about combo's

the ultimate MVC team = ryu and wolverine

I prefer Wolverine and War Machine, with Psylocke as helper.

ultimate mvc2 team = ryu cable and jill, or ryu ken akuma, or ryu and both wolverine's

Ryu and the Shotos are low tier in MvC2. A combination of Dr. Doom, Storm, Psylocke, Magneto, or Sentinel is enough.

Cable's good. Spam his gun fire -- > Viper Beam -- > Hyper Viper Beam or just spam his Hyper Viper Beam x3 for win.

ryu lost 2 ken?

Ken beat Ryu twice.

Who do you think gave him the red headband?

i do supermoves in 3rd strike and it gets parried how da fock can u parry a super fireball like i said cheap and cheating.

This really proves your bias. Because you can't do something in that game, you hate it, and say parrying is cheap and cheating.

Just because you can't parry, doesn't mean that anyone else can't.

I can parry super fireballs just fine. I can parry in mid-air, and parry some supers as well.

If you don't believe anyone can't parry, or it takes little skill to do so

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=2056054542448453224&q=daigo+parry

Ken (Daigo) vs. Chun-Li (Justin Wong, multi-time Evolution Mvs.C2 champion)

Evolution 2004, semi-finals.

[Sloth7d]

I always thought Spiderman was the most broken character on capcom vs marvel. I always use him with either Cyclops or wolverine.

[Ultra-Herald9]

Please re read or rewatch dragonball GT before goku started gaining major major power. Watch those tournaments, watch how he handled roshi, krilian piccolo, yamcha etc....

Lee uses a technique to overcome those limitations goku has no limits essentially.

Lee cant even beat neiji H2H and neiji cant beat goku so how would lee beat goku


OMG!!! Do you know anything about these universes? Lee is WAY better at taijutsu than any other chunin and he would smash Neji in hand to hand combat. Unlocking Chakra gates is a Jonin level technique that gives power on a Kage level!

Rock Lee is near the skill level of Goku easily. He doesn't have the power but he's sure as hell got the skill. Rock would annihilate Kid Goku who was owned be Commander blue and humbled General Black and they were on batman levels of strength!

[Sloth7d]

Actually, Neji is more skilled than Lee in hand to hand. They state that several times in the manga and anime. You shouldn't put someone down without knowing the facts.

[Sloth7d]

And while you're right about the 8 innergates giving the user hokage level power, Lee did not get to that level. He only got to the fith gate. And if he could use all 8 gates he would die shortly afterward performing the skill.

[Ultra-Herald9]

Actually, Neji is more skilled than Lee in hand to hand. They state that several times in the manga and anime. You shouldn't put someone down without knowing the facts.

I always thought they were comparing the effectiveness of the gentle fist versus the strong fist styles and not based on actual skills. If it is stated in the manga then I am clearly wrong and I apologize but i'm pretty sure Lee is a more skilled taijutsu specialist. But hey I could be wrong.

[Sloth7d]

I always thought they were comparing the effectiveness of the gentle fist versus the strong fist styles and not based on actual skills. If it is stated in the manga then I am clearly wrong and I apologize but i'm pretty sure Lee is a more skilled taijutsu specialist. But hey I could be wrong.
Tenten and Lee himself state that Neji is a genius in the gentle fist. And he is the top genin taijutsu fighter in konoha! Lee is second to him though.

[Ultra-Herald9]

And while you're right about the 8 innergates giving the user hokage level power, Lee did not get to that level. He only got to the fith gate. And if he could use all 8 gates he would die shortly afterward performing the skill.

You are right once again. I screwed up. I meant to say that when all eight chakra gates are unlocked they give power beyond that of a kage but death is assured since your heart overloads. But my main point is that Rock Lee is extremely impressive physically without even removing his weights and he's on the level of Neji and the rest of the Genin. It has been theorized that Rock Lee could have quite easily defeated Neji using the Chakra Gates and even without it. The problem is that Rock keeps getting paired against enemies with near inpenetrable defense techniques.

[Sloth7d]

You are right once again. I screwed up. I meant to say that when all eight chakra gates are unlocked they give power beyond that of a kage but death is assured since your heart overloads. But my main point is that Rock Lee is extremely impressive physically without even removing his weights and he's on the level of Neji and the rest of the Genin. It has been theorized that Rock Lee could have quite easily defeated Neji using the Chakra Gates and even without it. The problem is that Rock keeps getting paired against enemies with near inpenetrable defense techniques.
Yes. This is true. And Jplaya is wrong about Lee not beeing a good fighter.
His fighting style itself is mimiced after bruce lee (who is considered one of the worlds top fighters of his time). But with Nejis rotation its unlikely that Lee could beat him with unlocking the inner gates.But he probably could defeat him since Naruto did while using kyubi.

[Jplaya2023]

You are right once again. I screwed up.

Yup now apologize for your bold and wrong statements toward me

The top taijitsu fighters are gai neiji and problably lee

[Mistress Gluon]

Please re read or rewatch dragonball GT before goku started gaining major major power. Watch those tournaments, watch how he handled roshi, krilian piccolo, yamcha etc....

Lee uses a technique to overcome those limitations goku has no limits essentially.

Lee cant even beat neiji H2H and neiji cant beat goku so how would lee beat goku

Exactly. Goku doesn't ever HAVE to strain himself to death's door. He just has this natural little cheap ability. Emotional strain, new level. Rock Lee had to punish himself in ways unimaginable.

Basically, Goku doesn't HAVE to strain, he just get's in a tight situation, and just multiplies his power under some natural ability. Rock Lee goes BEYOND natural ability. And he could destroy Neji with his upper level techniques.

[Gotenks]

Rock lee isnt weak but to say he can beat goku in any type of fight is retarded.

Ok good seeing that I didnt say that.

[Jplaya2023]

Exactly. Goku doesn't ever HAVE to strain himself to death's door. He just has this natural little cheap ability. Emotional strain, new level. Rock Lee had to punish himself in ways unimaginable.

Basically, Goku doesn't HAVE to strain, he just get's in a tight situation, and just multiplies his power under some natural ability. Rock Lee goes BEYOND natural ability. And he could destroy Neji with his upper level techniques.

what in the world are u talking about cheap ability? As if goku is superman and was born with every power he has while doing nothing to maintain it. Goku was born with a PL of 2 5 or 10 i beleive he was seen as a weaker saiyan thats why he was sent to earth to destroy because he couldnt handle higher missions. He eventually becomes the strongest full blooded saiyan ever.

All goku does all day is eat and train you hardly see him doing anything else throughout the entire DB Z saga unless its filler or he's looking for dragonballs.

Goku throughout DB = Looked for the Dballs with bulma, trained with roshi and krilian and fought in world tournaments

Goku throughout Z = Training/Fighting in its whole show.

[Mistress Gluon]

what in the world are u talking about cheap ability? As if goku is superman and was born with every power he has while doing nothing to maintain it. Goku was born with a PL of 2 5 or 10 i beleive he was seen as a weaker saiyan thats why he was sent to earth to destroy because he couldnt handle higher missions. He eventually becomes the strongest full blooded saiyan ever.

All goku does all day is eat and train you hardly see him doing anything else throughout the entire DB Z saga unless its filler or he's looking for dragonballs.

Goku throughout DB = Looked for the Dballs with bulma, trained with roshi and krilian and fought in world tournaments

Goku throughout Z = Training/Fighting in its whole show.

Training? Yeah, he DOES it. To the extent of Rock Lee? Hell no. Not even close. He doesn't pour his entire soul into his training. And while he was born substantially weak, his growth rate was enormous. Vegeta definitely trained harder than he did, and still came out weaker.

[Jplaya2023]

Training? Yeah, he DOES it. To the extent of Rock Lee? Hell no. Not even close. He doesn't pour his entire soul into his training. And while he was born substantially weak, his growth rate was enormous. Vegeta definitely trained harder than he did, and still came out weaker.

Lol @ the extent of rock lee. I guess doing thousands of situps and pushups and punching logs supercede goku's turtle hermit training, goku training for a year in 1 day. Goku training everyday with piccol and gohan for 3 straight years before the androids come. Goku training with king kaio and mastering a technique king kaiou could never grasp in his limited time there. Come on get serious.

The reason the perception that lee trains "harder" is because you always see him crying, sweating or whatever and it gets on people's emotional side, so by default he trains harder by goku is their impression.

[Gotenks]

You would never hear Goku say " If I can't do 500 push-ups with one arm then I will do 1000 laps around the village".

[Jplaya2023]

Yeah you would never hear Goku say " If I can't do 500 push-ups with one arm then I will do 1000 laps around the village".

goku doesnt train like that. He trains to learn techniques, or help others in their trainings.

Lol @ goku saying "If i cant do 1000 kamehameha waves then i'll have to make love to chi chi tonight"

The only time we really seen goku train like that was when he told gohan in the ROSAT to do like 200 pushups or whatever and 10 kamehameha waves.

[Mistress Gluon]

Lol @ the extent of rock lee. I guess doing thousands of situps and pushups and punching logs supercede goku's turtle hermit training, goku training for a year in 1 day. Goku training everyday with piccol and gohan for 3 straight years before the androids come. Goku training with king kaio and mastering a technique king kaiou could never grasp in his limited time there. Come on get serious.

The reason the perception that lee trains "harder" is because you always see him crying, sweating or whatever and it gets on people's emotional side, so by default he trains harder by goku is their impression.

Hardly. Goku's natural limit is in the thousands. Rock Lee would do that even if his limit was 75, he'd still do five hundred.

As for training everyday, Goku does, and so does Rock Lee. Rock wakes up, and then goes straight to training until he passes out from it, wakes up, and does it again.

[Mistress Gluon]

goku doesnt train like that. He trains to learn techniques, or help others in their trainings.

Lol @ goku saying "If i cant do 1000 kamehameha waves then i'll have to make love to chi chi tonight"

The only time we really seen goku train like that was when he told gohan in the ROSAT to do like 200 pushups or whatever and 10 kamehameha waves.

No, Goku does a lot of strength training and polishing, like most martial artists.

[Ultra-Herald9]

Yup now apologize for your bold and wrong statements toward me

The top taijitsu fighters are gai neiji and problably lee

No thanks.

[Ultra-Herald9]

what in the world are u talking about cheap ability? As if goku is superman and was born with every power he has while doing nothing to maintain it. Goku was born with a PL of 2 5 or 10 i beleive he was seen as a weaker saiyan thats why he was sent to earth to destroy because he couldnt handle higher missions. He eventually becomes the strongest full blooded saiyan ever.

All goku does all day is eat and train you hardly see him doing anything else throughout the entire DB Z saga unless its filler or he's looking for dragonballs.

Goku throughout DB = Looked for the Dballs with bulma, trained with roshi and krilian and fought in world tournaments

Goku throughout Z = Training/Fighting in its whole show.


It was never even really implied that he trains eveday though. Goku's said it himself that relaxing is as important as training. He probably does a kata once or twice a day.

[Ultra-Herald9]

goku doesnt train like that. He trains to learn techniques, or help others in their trainings.

Lol @ goku saying "If i cant do 1000 kamehameha waves then i'll have to make love to chi chi tonight"

The only time we really seen goku train like that was when he told gohan in the ROSAT to do like 200 pushups or whatever and 10 kamehameha waves.

Yeah and the sad fact was that tese exercises were to help Gohan maintain the stresses of being a SSj. Now compare that to Rock Lee's training.

[Sloth7d]

Well, to be fair Goku did train under 100xgravity even though it almost killed him. But Lee pushes himself to the limit just as much as Goku and maybe harder. The only thing is continuous training doesn't make you stronger. And Goku is right. You must give yourself ample rest time or you'll never get stronger. I used to take tae kwan do. And thats what my teacher used to tell me atleast.

[CBG]

Athletes are the same. My coaches usually tell me we (me and team) should have a balance between training and relaxation. Too much of relaxation causes us to be lax. Too much training causes us to be too tense and tired. There has to be ample time for both.

[Sloth7d]

Yeah. Thats what I meant.

[Ultra-Herald9]

Well, to be fair Goku did train under 100xgravity even though it almost killed him. But Lee pushes himself to the limit just as much as Goku and maybe harder. The only thing is continuous training doesn't make you stronger. And Goku is right. You must give yourself ample rest time or you'll never get stronger. I used to take tae kwan do. And thats what my teacher used to tell me atleast.

As a fellow martial-artist I am aware that a period of relaxation followed by training is crucial to becoming stronger. I'm just saying that Rock Lee's body is so conditioned that he can get much more to the point were he rarely needs to take any breaks which is highly impressive and something even Goku has trouble doing. Then again they are on totaly different levels of strength.

[Jplaya2023]

As a fellow martial-artist I am aware that a period of relaxation followed by training is crucial to becoming stronger. I'm just saying that Rock Lee's body is so conditioned that he can get much more to the point were he rarely needs to take any breaks which is highly impressive and something even Goku has trouble doing. Then again they are on totaly different levels of strength.

Rock lee couldnt even withstand the gravity on kaiou sama's planet he would be pinned to the ground

[CBG]

He'll do his damndest to overcome it or die trying. It's his character, after all.

[Jplaya2023]

He'll do his damndest to overcome it or die trying. It's his character, after all.

he would be dead then

[CBG]

Either way, he'll try.

[Jplaya2023]

Either way, he'll try.


no doubt he would, goku would live on lee would die.

Goku's training >>>>>>> Lee's

that's all im sayni

[Jplaya2023]

Either way, he'll try.


no doubt he would, goku would live on lee would die.

Goku's training >>>>>>> Lee's

that's all im sayni

[Ultra-Herald9]

no doubt he would, goku would live on lee would die.

Goku's training >>>>>>> Lee's

that's all im sayni

Nobody is Sayni that Lee's training is on the level of Goku's. We are just comparing the wills of the two. Its not fair to compare Goku to Lee cause their unverses are totaly different and so are their laws. In Goku's universe he gets stonger for practically doing nothing! While in lee's universe there are set limits whic to lee's credit he has surpassed through sheer will and training alone.

[Jplaya2023]

Nobody is Sayni that Lee's training is on the level of Goku's. We are just comparing the wills of the two. Its not fair to compare Goku to Lee cause their unverses are totaly different and so are their laws. In Goku's universe he gets stonger for practically doing nothing! While in lee's universe there are set limits whic to lee's credit he has surpassed through sheer will and training alone.

credability denied

Goku isnt superman, he doesnt sit on his ass all day and magically gets stronger. Goku gets stronger by training and having near death ecperiences in battle