Who in DC or Marvel would give Goku a good fight?

[CBG]

Zenkai's can be theoretically abused. For example, we could have Krillin shot and Dende heal Vegeta multiple times prior to facing Frieza. Sure, they didn't have the luxury of time, but any Saiyan could do it out of battle, and theoretically repeat the process multiple times until Dende tires.

[Jplaya2023]

Zenkai's can be theoretically abused. For example, we could have Krillin shot and Dende heal Vegeta multiple times prior to facing Frieza. Sure, they didn't have the luxury of time, but any Saiyan could do it out of battle, and theoretically repeat the process multiple times until Dende tires.

Chou Gohan didnt receive a zenkai when he was healed by dende when he fought gotenks buu. So your theory is flawed

[CBG]

Chou Gohan didnt receive a zenkai when he was healed by dende when he fought gotenks buu. So your theory is flawed

Which is why I said, theoretically.

In addition, this proves that zenkai's have a limit, as you stated.

[Jplaya2023]

Which is why I said, theoretically.

In addition, this proves that zenkai's have a limit, as you stated.

you hook up a scanner to a laptop the same as you do a desktop

and gohan was already at his max when that occured so he couldnt get stronger.

[CBG]

Thus, everyone has a limit.

And I suppose I need a program to install a scanner program in my laptop? Or is that already installed at the get-go?

[Jplaya2023]

Thus, everyone has a limit.

And I suppose I need a program to install a scanner program in my laptop? Or is that already installed at the get-go?

yes they have a limit. Do we know how much that limit is. Absolutely not

And you should have a driver's disk with the laptop, if not get the model # go to the manuf site and download the drivers

[CBG]

yes they have a limit. Do we know how much that limit is. Absolutely not

Since Mystic Gohan was the most powerful non-fused warrior of canon DB, it's not going to exceed his.

And you should have a driver's disk with the laptop, if not get the model # go to the manuf site and download the drivers

I'll keep that in mind.

[Jplaya2023]

Since Mystic Gohan was the most powerful non-fused warrior of canon DB, it's not going to exceed his.



I'll keep that in mind.


Both trunks and goten have higher potentials than chou gohan so they can exceed his limit.

[Phenomenal]

The Hulk

Goku will blow him off the planet

Gladiator

Glads loses as well, Glads has had his ass handed to him many a times. Crappy Thor beat him.

Thor

Nope, Too slow Thor gets knocked out.

Burori

Uh, Goku will kick Broli's ass with his new Super Saiya-jin levels. He has fought Majin Buu a being who will kill Broli.

Lobo

He's immortal but can be knocked and and will against Goku.

[Ultra-Herald9]

Goku will blow him off the planet



Glads loses as well, Glads has had his ass handed to him many a times. Crappy Thor beat him.



Nope, Too slow Thor gets knocked out.





Uh, Goku will kick Broli's ass with his new Super Saiya-jin levels. He has fought Majin Buu a being who will kill Broli.



He's immortal but can be knocked and and will against Goku.



Someone needs to read some d*mn comics. Gladiator would annihilate Goku and so would Thor. All the times Gladiator has been defeated(not counting his bouts with Thor) was at points were he was in doubt of his own abilities. Gladiator is WAY more powerful then effing Goku. Plus you say Gladiator was defeated by Thor like Thor is weak. Thor is a God with strength on par with an enranged savage Hulk.

Thor is plenty fast and skilled enough to parry Goku's strikes. Plus he has can teleport using mjolnir. Thor's magic would is enough to defat Goku alone.:oldrazz:

[Ultra-Herald9]

credability denied

Goku isnt superman, he doesnt sit on his ass all day and magically gets stronger. Goku gets stronger by training and having near death ecperiences in battle

Do you know anything about freakin comics? Why do you think Superman is so freaking Buff(and contrary to popular belief solar absorbtion does not increase his muscle mass)? Its because the things he does actually gives him a work out! Superman flys around the world at high speeds righting every wrong he can find constantly lifting and moving heavy objects and fighting off any villian that suddenly wants to kill him that day!

[Endless Mike]

Iron Man in his new Extremis armor gives him a good fight.

Genis, Sentry, or Surfer on the other hand would tear him apart into atoms.

[Mr Sparkle]

gawd I miss the BDZ forums so these retarded threads left the first page.

[Keollyn]

Goku will blow him off the planet



Glads loses as well, Glads has had his ass handed to him many a times. Crappy Thor beat him.



Nope, Too slow Thor gets knocked out.



Uh, Goku will kick Broli's ass with his new Super Saiya-jin levels. He has fought Majin Buu a being who will kill Broli.



He's immortal but can be knocked and and will against Goku.

Blow Hulk off the planet? Is that before or after Hulk punched a hole threw Goku's chest?

You mean the same Gladiator that can move planets and survive in the core of a sun? I wonder how Goku will manage to beat someone with capabilities like that.

Thor gets knocked out? Is that before or after Goku is KTFO by Mjolnir?

Mind providing me with evidence that Fat or Kid Boo can beat Burori? Both are lightweight versions of the Boos and is only threatening with transmutation... something that even Boo rarely does to heavy hitters.

And how do you propose Goku manages this against Lobo?

[Oerwinde]

Without reading the 100 page thread, I will say:

Jenny Quantum
Scarlet Witch
Thanos(with infinity gauntlet)
The Doctor
Living Tribunal

[Endless Mike]

Without reading the 100 page thread, I will say:

Jenny Quantum
Scarlet Witch
Thanos(with infinity gauntlet)
The Doctor
Living Tribunal

Wait, you think he could actually put up a fight against those characters?:dry:

[SSJ4_Mikael]

Wait, you think he could actually put up a fight against those characters?:dry:
Nahh . . . But it's safer to say, because it will be easier to convince the DBZ fanatics.
They will require proof, and we can easiley prove that any of them could defeat them.

[Jplaya2023]

gawd I miss the BDZ forums so these retarded threads left the first page.

get out of this forum

[Jplaya2023]

Without reading the 100 page thread, I will say:

Jenny Quantum no
Scarlet Witch no
Thanos(with infinity gauntlet) no
The Doctor no
Living Tribunal no



try some more chars they cant beat goku in a fight

[Endless Mike]

try some more chars they cant beat goku in a fight

Do you even know who any of those characters are?

[Jplaya2023]

Do you even know who any of those characters are?

yes, thanos uses the infinity gauntlett.

Scarlett Witch is a female

[Syn (Mercenary)]

Galactus? Nope. He probably has a powerlevel that of Freiza. What Goku are we talking? Cause SS4...yeah, that would be nobody.

[Endless Mike]

yes, thanos uses the infinity gauntlett.

Scarlett Witch is a female

Thanos once used the Infinity Gauntlet, and simply knowing someone's gender (especially if they have a title in their name which is usually gender - specific, such as 'witch') is hardly impressive.

[SSJ4_Mikael]

Galactus? Nope. He probably has a powerlevel that of Freiza. What Goku are we talking? Cause SS4...yeah, that would be nobody.
What the hell have you been taking?
Full powered Galactus is a unity with the universe and can destroy it.
No one in DB have even stated to be able to destroy anything more than a solar system (SSJ2 Seru)

You know Silver Surfer, he can (after obtaining the uni-power) destroy a solar system in a single blast.

Odin's battles (the side damage of the battles) can destroy the galaxy they are fighting in. - Yes Odin have destroyed a Galaxy.

When average feeded Galactus battled Full powered Tyrant it was stated that countless of galaxies were destroyed by the side damages.

[Endless Mike]

Galactus? Nope. He probably has a powerlevel that of Freiza. What Goku are we talking? Cause SS4...yeah, that would be nobody.

Right, because I totally remember that episode where Freiza was destroying countless galaxies just as a side - effect of fighting, and that one where he was devouring the universe....:whatever:

Honestly, I really hope this post was sarcasm.

[CBG]

Frieza = Galactus?!

Sigh. . .

[Endless Mike]

Frieza = Galactus?!

Sigh. . .

At least this isn't Gaia Online.

Instead you'd be getting Itachi > Galactus.

Though jplaya might actually make that claim.

[CBG]

Well, this is a poster who claimed DBAF was canon.

[Jplaya2023]

Right, because I totally remember that episode where Freiza was destroying countless galaxies just as a side - effect of fighting, and that one where he was devouring the universe....:whatever:

Honestly, I really hope this post was sarcasm.

No but i remember an episode where frieza destroyed a saiyan planet with his finger

[Jplaya2023]

What the hell have you been taking?
Full powered Galactus is a unity with the universe and can destroy it.
No one in DB have even stated to be able to destroy anything more than a solar system (SSJ2 Seru)


So its only natural to speak fact upon anyone higher than ssj2 seru can destroy not onl a galaxy but an entire dimensional world and the entire planetary existence then. super buu screamed and was ripping holes in the dimension. Chou buu was getting angry and his ki was causing the galaxy to shatter. King kaiou said he would end all life by havnig different dimensions clash. Keep in mind he was just being mad

[Endless Mike]

No but i remember an episode where frieza destroyed a saiyan planet with his finger

And I remember the manga where it was never stated how he destroyed the planet. Why does it matter, anyway?

Destroying a planet for Galactus is like eating a hamburger for us.

[Endless Mike]

So its only natural to speak fact upon anyone higher than ssj2 seru can destroy not onl a galaxy but an entire dimensional world and the entire planetary existence then. super buu screamed and was ripping holes in the dimension. Chou buu was getting angry and his ki was causing the galaxy to shatter. King kaiou said he would end all life by havnig different dimensions clash. Keep in mind he was just being mad

Half of what you said is non - canon filler and the other half is made up out of thin air.

[Jplaya2023]

At least this isn't Gaia Online.

Instead you'd be getting Itachi > Galactus.

Though jplaya might actually make that claim.


How well can galactus with stand torture?

Itachi can form seals at lightspeed (as far as naruto standards) how would galactus react to amertestu burning right through him incenerating him cmopletely

[Jplaya2023]

Half of what you said is non - canon filler and the other half is made up out of thin air.

frieza destroying the saiyan planet with 1 finger is canon stated in the manga

super buu screaming and ripping a hole in the dimension is canon

sorry u lose

[Mistress Gluon]

So its only natural to speak fact upon anyone higher than ssj2 seru can destroy not onl a galaxy but an entire dimensional world and the entire planetary existence then. super buu screamed and was ripping holes in the dimension. Chou buu was getting angry and his ki was causing the galaxy to shatter. King kaiou said he would end all life by havnig different dimensions clash. Keep in mind he was just being mad

I KNOW I've been over this before. Galactus could destroy a galaxy. Hell, him blowing UP could destroy more than that. His Power Cosmic should award him massive reality altering abilities (which is obvious given the fact he can manipulate life forms into new ones). He can effortlessly just move through dimensions, time, and teleport instantly back and forth through either or both, as well as take people from either or both to him effortlessly.

And just because King says he can, doesn't mean he ACTUALLY can. Galactus says he's invincible after all.

[CBG]

How well can galactus with stand torture?

I can't believe you ask that question.

Itachi's mind would shut down in trying to even ATTEMPT to do that to Galactus' mind.

[CBG]

super buu screaming and ripping a hole in the dimension is canon

One little hole.

[Mistress Gluon]

How well can galactus with stand torture?

Itachi can form seals at lightspeed (as far as naruto standards) how would galactus react to amertestu burning right through him incenerating him cmopletely

Galactus, moving at billions of times the speed of light. Any seal he can simply undo, since little mortal things are easily within his comprehension. And his power cosmic probably wouldn't be restrained by it. He'd probably just reverse the process on him via pc manipulation.

[Endless Mike]

How well can galactus with stand torture?

Itachi can form seals at lightspeed (as far as naruto standards) how would galactus react to amertestu burning right through him incenerating him cmopletely

......:wow:

I didn't think you would actually do it.

Wow.

If you must know, Galactus' mental defenses were so strong that Professor X and Magneto had to exert themselves to their limits telepathically just to get his attention, and he can create beings using only a tiny fraction of his power who can fly right through supernovae unharmed.

[Endless Mike]

frieza destroying the saiyan planet with 1 finger is canon stated in the manga

super buu screaming and ripping a hole in the dimension is canon

sorry u lose

It was planet Vegeta, it was stated that he destroyed it, but not how.

Buu travelling between dimensions to escape from the ROSAT is canon. No other instance of him using that power is canon.

[Jplaya2023]

One little hole.

All he needed to escpae.

[CBG]

And not the freaking 'dimension' filler, like you said.

[Mistress Gluon]

All he needed to escpae.

But it's all he could muster through hard work. Galactus can send entire planets and solar systems to other dimensions without any effort.

[Jplaya2023]

I KNOW I've been over this before. Galactus could destroy a galaxy. Hell, him blowing UP could destroy more than that. His Power Cosmic should award him massive reality altering abilities (which is obvious given the fact he can manipulate life forms into new ones). He can effortlessly just move through dimensions, time, and teleport instantly back and forth through either or both, as well as take people from either or both to him effortlessly.

And just because King says he can, doesn't mean he ACTUALLY can. Galactus says he's invincible after all.

Should is the keyword

King Kaiou has no reason to lie and never been known to spew BS he's right and its canon. Case over

[CBG]

Low on energy, might we add.

[Jplaya2023]

I can't believe you ask that question.

Itachi's mind would shut down in trying to even ATTEMPT to do that to Galactus' mind.

Nothing more but your opinion and speculation. Show me an instance where his mind shut down doing it. If ucant find anything just pipe down.

[CBG]

King Kaiou has no reason to lie and never been known to spew BS he's right and its canon. Case over

The dimension breaking thing was filler. Referring to the one in the anime where Super Vegito had to stop him.

[Jplaya2023]

......:wow:

I didn't think you would actually do it.

Wow.

If you must know, Galactus' mental defenses were so strong that Professor X and Magneto had to exert themselves to their limits telepathically just to get his attention, and he can create beings using only a tiny fraction of his power who can fly right through supernovae unharmed.

last time i checked, prof x and magneto are unable to create an entire dimension in which they control space and time. They dont do what itachi do.

[CBG]

Nothing more but your opinion and speculation. Show me an instance where his mind shut down doing it. If ucant find anything just pipe down.

Double standard, newbie.

Show me where Itachi's abilities can affect a cosmic freaking being.

Use logic, or just resign.

[CBG]

last time i checked, prof x and magneto are unable to create an entire dimension in which they control space and time. They dont do what itachi do.

Xavier's FAR MORE capable than what Itachi can do.

[Jplaya2023]

It was planet Vegeta, it was stated that he destroyed it, but not how.

Buu travelling between dimensions to escape from the ROSAT is canon. No other instance of him using that power is canon.

Watch the bardock special he used his finger. And yes its canon because its referenced in the Manga.

[CBG]

The character Bardock was referenced in the manga. Nowhere in the manga was the anime backstory was adapted.

[Jplaya2023]

Xavier's FAR MORE capable than what Itachi can do.

They dont torture people like itachi does. Especially not charles. Like i said their powers are far different. Xavier may have greater capability but itachi is a killer charles isnt.

[Mistress Gluon]

Should is the keyword

King Kaiou has no reason to lie and never been known to spew BS he's right and its canon. Case over

Should as in he hasn't done it since there is no reason for him to.

And embellishing is hardly something I would say is below him.

Galactus could easily escape that sort of thing anyway.

[Endless Mike]

Nothing more but your opinion and speculation. Show me an instance where his mind shut down doing it. If ucant find anything just pipe down.

So because Itachi has never attempted to use Tsukiyomi on someone with a strong mental defense (of all the astonishing two times we've seen him use it) then mental defense is irrelevant?

That's great logic!

According to you, since Luffy's Third Gear form has never been defeated (so far), that means it would easily kill Goku or any DBZ character.:woot:

[CBG]

Xavier mindwipes.

He's no saint anymore with recent years.

[Jplaya2023]

Double standard, newbie.

Show me where Itachi's abilities can affect a cosmic freaking being.

Use logic, or just resign.

Show me where galactus powers affect the DBZ universe.

See i can do it to.

Now since its obvious u cant gauge powers because different universes have different laws we have to use the adopted scale created by a poster a few years back.

[Endless Mike]

last time i checked, prof x and magneto are unable to create an entire dimension in which they control space and time. They dont do what itachi do.

Last time I checked, Itachi wasn't able to affect a whole planet telepathically, or even more than one person at once.

[Mistress Gluon]

It wasn't logic. NONE of this is logic. Logic isn't even defined correctly here.

Thought pattern.

God I hate it when people say that about logic.

Either way. Since Itatchi never had an opportunity to use such a technique on a being who can instantly understand all minds and things in the universe with such an advanced mind, where mortal minds don't even BEGIN to affect his, I guess we could say it's safe to say that Itatchi would be screwed.

[Endless Mike]

They dont torture people like itachi does. Especially not charles. Like i said their powers are far different. Xavier may have greater capability but itachi is a killer charles isnt.

So if Xavier had killer intent, then he could kill Galactus, is what you're saying?

Then explain why Magneto, who was chanelling Xavier's powers along with his own, and who IS a killer, only managed to get G's attention?

[CBG]

Show me where galactus powers affect the DBZ universe.

See i can do it to.

You don't see me asking whether DB warriors can shoot ki blast in other universes. Same answer applies here; they're both able. Thus, Galactus does retain his power in the DB universe.

[qupte]Now since its obvious u cant gauge powers because different universes have different laws we have to use the adopted scale created by a poster a few years back.[/quote]

And that would be?

[Mistress Gluon]

So if Xavier had killer intent, then he could kill Galactus, is what you're saying?

Then explain why Magneto, who was chanelling Xavier's powers along with his own, and who IS a killer, only managed to get G's attention?

Xavier would die from the feedback of Galactus' most basic instinctual thoughts.

[Jplaya2023]

But it's all he could muster through hard work.

WOW :csad: I dont think you ever watched DBZ or not the Buu saga

[CBG]

He was frustrated at the thought of not leaving. Screamed at hard as he can.

[Mistress Gluon]

WOW :csad: I dont think you ever watched DBZ or not the Buu saga

I did. He screamed for like a frickin episode to open a gate he could slide through by making his body smaller. Yeah, in THAT time, Galactus would have uncreated him.

[Jplaya2023]

I did. He screamed for like a frickin episode to open a gate he could slide through by making his body smaller. Yeah, in THAT time, Galactus would have uncreated him.


Read the manga The anime draws things out. You should know this

[Jplaya2023]

So if Xavier had killer intent, then he could kill Galactus, is what you're saying?

Then explain why Magneto, who was chanelling Xavier's powers along with his own, and who IS a killer, only managed to get G's attention?


I never sen charles do any type of technique itachi does so i'll have to see him do something similiar before i pass judgement

[CBG]

I never sen charles do any type of technique itachi does so i'll have to see him do something similiar before i pass judgement

We know he can mindwipe. It's well within his power He did it on Vanisher, Magneto, and Cyclops.

And he can affect the timeframe of one's mind as well. He put Moira's students through training in their for a time equivalent of a few months. X-Men: Deadly Genesis.

[Endless Mike]

I never sen charles do any type of technique itachi does so i'll have to see him do something similiar before i pass judgement

So the fact that his demonstrations of power are far superior means nothing in light of the fact that his methods aren't identical?

In that case, Luffy kills Goku with a punch because Goku can't stretch.:woot:

[Phenomenal]

Blow Hulk off the planet? Is that before or after Hulk punched a hole threw Goku's chest?

Yeah, The Hulk is just as fast as Goku he can diapear and reapper in an instant:rolleyes: Goku can easily blow Hulk off the planet before he blinks.

You mean the same Gladiator that can move planets and survive in the core of a sun? I wonder how Goku will manage to beat someone with capabilities like that.

Same way that Crappy Erik Masterson thor did and the slow ass Hulk. Not too mention Glads couldn't beat Hyperion a guy who struggles moving a small comet.:o

Thor gets knocked out? Is that before or after Goku is KTFO by Mjolnir?

You mean the same Thor who gets speedblitzed by Mongoose, The same guy who let Spider-man danc around him like he was at the DDR Arcades:rolleyes: . Goku is not going to get touched by someone slower than him that is a theme since Dragonball.

Mind providing me with evidence that Fat or Kid Boo can beat Burori? Both are lightweight versions of the Boos and is only threatening with transmutation... something that even Boo rarely does to heavy hitters.

The fact that Super Saiya-jin 1 Goku went toe to toe with Broli was proof enough. Goku's extra modes especially Super Saiya-jin 3 will be more than enough to handle Broli. Kid Buu has as much power as Broli, his regeneration gives him the edge.

And how do you propose Goku manages this against Lobo?

Goku is better than Lobo in everyway, Goku can and will knock Lobo out. Lobo's immortality is the only thing going for him.

[Jplaya2023]

Goku is better than Lobo in everyway, Goku can and will knock Lobo out. Lobo's immortality is the only thing going for him.

read this hillarious post

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10173284&postcount=195

these people dont know man

[Endless Mike]

read this hillarious post

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10173284&postcount=195

these people dont know man

I've said it before and I'll say it again: It truly is pathetic when you can start a fanwank circle - jerk with only two people.

[Phenomenal]

read this hillarious post

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10173284&postcount=195

these people dont know man

That's Endless Mike for ya.

[CBG]

Hell, at least Phenomenol can admit that DB warriors are defeatable. And I prefer him to you any day.

[Phenomenal]

Yes CBG, I can name a TON of characters who can smack the DBZ universe.

[Jplaya2023]

That's Endless Mike for ya.

yup posting using his fanboy blinders insetad of logic and reality.

Reality: Flash has no chance in hell in beating gohan

Endless Mike's Fanboy blinders: LAWLS!!! FLash makes gohan's molecules go ooo wee lolzzzzzz daflash wensssssssss

[CBG]

Which is why I prefer you, Phenomenol, over jplaya2023.

One, he claims Goku > Batman & Spider-Man > all fiction

Two, he portrayed DBAF as canon.

[Endless Mike]

yup posting using his fanboy blinders insetad of logic and reality.

Reality: Flash has no chance in hell in beating gohan

Endless Mike's Fanboy blinders: LAWLS!!! FLash makes gohan's molecules go ooo wee lolzzzzzz daflash wensssssssss

Let's see: I used actual canon, demonstrated abilities, while you have provided no evidence whatsoever.

Gohan wouldn't even be able to see Flash, let alone hit him. Flash has a billion speedforce tricks that could **** up any DBZ character easily.

[Jplaya2023]

Let's see: I used actual canon, demonstrated abilities, while you have provided no evidence whatsoever.

Gohan wouldn't even be able to see Flash, let alone hit him. Flash has a billion speedforce tricks that could **** up any DBZ character easily.

BWAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Ultra-Herald9]

Let's see: I used actual canon, demonstrated abilities, while you have provided no evidence whatsoever.

Gohan wouldn't even be able to see Flash, let alone hit him. Flash has a billion speedforce tricks that could **** up any DBZ character easily.

He's not kidding Jplaya! The Flash would decimate Gohan! Especially Barry Allen.

[Endless Mike]

BWAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Really, then?

Show me a manga scan of Gohan tracking an object moving at confirmed FTL speeds.

[Phenomenal]

Flash has a billion speedforce tricks that could **** up any DBZ character easily.

Please speak for yourself! Goku will hand the Flash his ass, just like many others.

[Endless Mike]

Please speak for yourself! Goku will hand the Flash his ass, just like many others.

If Flash is serious (which he certainly would be against such an opponent) Goku wouldn't know what hit him.

[Jplaya2023]

Really, then?

Show me a manga scan of Gohan tracking an object moving at confirmed FTL speeds.

umm cell and buu and frieza

[Endless Mike]

umm cell and buu and frieza

Who don't move anywhere near the speed of light.

Unless, of course, you have proof that they do.

[Phenomenal]

If Flash is serious (which he certainly would be against such an opponent) Goku wouldn't know what hit him.

Just like Flash was serious against Gorilla Grodd.:rolleyes:

Actually it's the other way around Goku can kill Flash in a blink of an eye.

[CBG]

If Wally wanted to, he could have chose to vibrate through every physical attack a character would try on him. The thing is, it would have resulted in a big explosion and a certain loss of limb, if not life of the attacker and possibly others.

[Endless Mike]

Just like Flash was serious against Gorilla Grodd.:rolleyes:

Actually it's the other way around Goku can kill Flash in a blink of an eye.

What part of 'Grodd uses offensive telepathy and Goku doesn't' is confusing you?

[Ultra-Herald9]

The Flash is like the Hulk but infinite speed instead of strength. They can literally move as fast as they wan really. The only drawback is that an unskilled user can speed so fast that he will be assimilated into the speed force! Barry Allen easily the most powerful flash could easily move faster than the speed of thought! He was faster than PC Superman(who could easily outmove ANY dbz charcter) and once threw a punch so powerful that he broke the timestream!

[Endless Mike]

Yeah and he outraced a tachyon (faster - than - light particle)

[Warhammer]

My DB fanboyism says my main man, Gohan, would win, but The Flash (Especially Barry, like most said) would definitely win with the use of countless tricks with the speed force, etc. :word:

[Endless Mike]

My DB fanboyism says my main man, Gohan, would win, but The Flash (Especially Barry, like most said) would definitely win with the use of countless tricks with the speed force, etc. :word:

Thank you. Finally a sane DBZ fan.

[Phenomenal]

What part of 'Grodd uses offensive telepathy and Goku doesn't' is confusing you?

Grodd has also tagged the Flash without using mental powers, slow ass Mongul even punch comboed the Flash.

Goku's Combat speed is greater than the Flash's because Flash can die in a blink of an eye.

[Endless Mike]

Grodd has also tagged the Flash without using mental powers, slow ass Mongul even punch comboed the Flash.

Goku's Combat speed is greater than the Flash's because Flash can die in a blink of an eye.

And I suppose you have scans or issue numbers so I can cross - check the context?

Because you are a known liar.

Not to mention he never goes all - out in populated environments anyway.

[CBG]

His super speed is not solely limited to running, you know.

[Jplaya2023]

Mistress Gloun do you still think lee trains harder than goku :woot:

http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/photo.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume23/Db23ch06/db23_081.gif

http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/photo.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume23/Db23ch06/db23_082.gif

http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/photo.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume23/Db23ch06/db23_083.gif

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[Warhammer]

Thank you. Finally a sane DBZ fan.

No problem.

CBG, Mistress, Ultra Herald, (etc.) and countless others know that I actually put my DBZ bias aside when I vote for people. I don't say stupid crap like Living Tribunal or Galactus loses to Goku, etc.

[Warhammer]

Mistress Gloun do you still think lee trains harder than goku :woot:

http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/photo.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume23/Db23ch06/db23_081.gif

http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/photo.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume23/Db23ch06/db23_082.gif

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Nice pics.
I never thought that Rock Lee could handle 100x gravity.

[Endless Mike]

I should note that he was visibly damaged from those ki blasts he shot at himself, yet they created such a small explosion it didn't even scuff up the interior of his spaceship.

Anyway, another guy who beats him is Crusher Creel, the Absorbing Man.

If Goku touches him, then AM gets all of Goku's powers, and if Goku tries to hit him with a ki blast, he'll become a living ki blast.

[CBG]

Getting them done is one thing. It's the will that counts.

Rock would do his best, the same as Goku. Keep in mind, Goku has the advantage with his Saiyan physiology, able to tire out slower. Rock is a ninja without the ability to use Ninjutsu and Genjutsu, and has physical limits placed upon his body.

[Jplaya2023]

I should note that he was visibly damaged from those ki blasts he shot at himself, yet they created such a small explosion it didn't even scuff up the interior of his spaceship.

Anyway, another guy who beats him is Crusher Creel, the Absorbing Man.

If Goku touches him, then AM gets all of Goku's powers, and if Goku tries to hit him with a ki blast, he'll become a living ki blast.

please keep in mind those blast were concentrated or else he would of easily destroyed the ship. Not to mention he's in 100X gravity

[Phenomenal]

And I suppose you have scans or issue numbers so I can cross - check the context?

Because you are a known liar.

Not to mention he never goes all - out in populated environments anyway.

http://img186.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fnwvsgrodd1e4xv.jpg

I have to go and search my comic stack for Gorilla Grodd tagging him.

Flash can't beat Goku period! The difference in Combat speed is too great.
Goku will easily kill Flash in an instant.

[CBG]

Oh boy. . . concentration all over again. . .

[Jplaya2023]

Who don't move anywhere near the speed of light.

Unless, of course, you have proof that they do.

Well lets see, vegeta could sense the ginyu force ship traveling to namek which travel at the speed of light or faster, but he couldnt sense form 4 frieza's attacks which is faster than the speed of light.

Piccolo fighting radits stated he was moving faster than light

[Jplaya2023]

Oh boy. . . concentration all over again. . .

So they dont concentrate their blast now???

Am i making that up.

If you dont think they do (which they do) tell me how dodoria with a PL of 22,000 blew up bulma's ship and goku with a pl anywhere from 50,000-100,000 at the time wouldnt be able to damage a ship.

See the concentration there

[CBG]

Piccolo stating Radditz moving faster than light was a dub error.

[Jplaya2023]

Piccolo stating Radditz moving faster than light was a dub error.

it was also a manga error as well?

[CBG]

See the concentration there

Energy can not be created or destroyed.

[CBG]

it was also a manga error as well?

Unless you provide me an accurate scanslation or translation from the direct Japanese text.

Otherwise, Phenomenol would have elaborated on this fact back at NF.

[Jplaya2023]

Energy can not be created or destroyed.

In the dbz universe it can

[Phenomenal]

Unless you provide me an accurate scanslation or translation from the direct Japanese text.

Otherwise, Phenomenol would have elaborated on this fact back at NF.

That was a horrible Translation Dub error! The Original Japanese said nothing like that.

[CBG]

In the dbz universe it can

Prove it?

[Jplaya2023]

Prove it?

their use of manipulating ki

ki in the dbz universe = energy

[CBG]

Manipulating ki.

[Jplaya2023]

Manipulating ki.

ki = energy

manipulating ki = manipulating energy

[Endless Mike]

http://img186.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fnwvsgrodd1e4xv.jpg

I have to go and search my comic stack for Gorilla Grodd tagging him.

Flash can't beat Goku period! The difference in Combat speed is too great.
Goku will easily kill Flash in an instant.

Without even reading the other panels it's obvious he was distracted.

[Endless Mike]

Well lets see, vegeta could sense the ginyu force ship traveling to namek which travel at the speed of light or faster, but he couldnt sense form 4 frieza's attacks which is faster than the speed of light.

This has been debunked hundreds of times.

One word: Parallax

Look at the moon. Do you realize the moon is actually moving at around 2,225 miles per hour? Yet from your perspective, it appears still. Now look at a fly erratically buzzing around you. Much harder to see. Does that mean the fly is moving faster than 2,225 miles per hour? Of course not. It's a matter of perspective.

Piccolo fighting radits stated he was moving faster than light

Dub error.

[CBG]

ki = energy

manipulating ki = manipulating energy

Sigh. . . you're not getting it. Manipulating's the key word.

Energy can not be created or destroyed.

[Endless Mike]

ki = energy

manipulating ki = manipulating energy

So they can somehow fire enough energy to destroy a planet and have 99.99999999999999999999999999999% of it disappear into nowhere and the rest just leave a tiny crater?:whatever:

Conservation of energy.

[Jplaya2023]

Sigh. . . you're not getting it. Manipulating's the key word.

Energy can not be created or destroyed.

they create and destroy ki in the dbz universe

ki = energy

they actually generate(create) ki when they get stronger or power up

[Endless Mike]

Really, do you have evidence of this?

Because the logical conclusion would be that they just have the energy inside their bodies already and access it.

[Phenomenal]

Without even reading the other panels it's obvious he was distracted.

Mongul has NO buisness touching Flash. Goku kills The Flash in a blink of an eye.

[Jplaya2023]

Really, do you have evidence of this?

Because the logical conclusion would be that they just have the energy inside their bodies already and access it.

So explain how they get stronger after every battle, if they have that energy they could just harness it so they dont lose in battle. When they completely heal, they create more energy by their biology that gives them more power

[Jplaya2023]

goku using his ftl speeds against the fastest in the universe at the time baata

http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/photo.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume24/Db24ch06/2483.gif

[Endless Mike]

Mongul has NO buisness touching Flash. Goku kills The Flash in a blink of an eye.

Using your logic, if some guy has 100 bullets shot at him, and he dodges 99 of them and gets hit by one, you would conclude that he can't dodge a bullet and any random guy with a glock would easily beat him.

You can't use only low showings to dictate a character's performance (especially low showings where the character is not going anywhere near all - out, and can't due to harming innocent civilians, and there are extenuating circumstances).

If Wally truly doesn't want to be hit, and his opponent is not another speedster (FTL), and there are no traps specifically set up to counter his powerset, then he is not going to be hit.

Goku does not meet any of those conditions.

I posted scans in the OBD where he was thinking and reacting in attoseconds. Do you know how long an attosecond is?

It's 1/1,000,000,000,000,000,000th of a second.

There are as many attoseconds in a second as there are seconds in the life of the universe so far.

And he can think that fast when he is going through the speedforce.

[Endless Mike]

So explain how they get stronger after every battle, if they have that energy they could just harness it so they dont lose in battle. When they completely heal, they create more energy by their biology that gives them more power

Because through training or any other methods, they gain stronger capabilities to hold more ki.

[Jplaya2023]

goku's ftl battle speed


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[CBG]

I don't see anywhere that mentions lightspeed.

[Endless Mike]

goku using his ftl speeds against the fastest in the universe at the time baata

I don't see anything being said about FTL.

I don't see a measurable distance interval and a measurable time interval that can be divided to come up with FTL.

I don't see any confirmed c objects that can be compared with.

What does this prove again?

You do realize that you need more than characters disappearing and moving too fast for other characters to see to prove FTL, right?

Characters in Kenshin do this stuff.

[Endless Mike]

goku's ftl battle speed

And the FTL part is..... where?

Moving fast and blurry =\= FTL.

[Jplaya2023]

goku would never be caught by a slow ass monkey regardless of you fan bouys justification for flash

http://img186.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fnwvsgrodd1e4xv.jpg

[Phenomenal]

Using your logic, if some guy has 100 bullets shot at him, and he dodges 99 of them and gets hit by one, you would conclude that he can't dodge a bullet and any random guy with a glock would easily beat him.

You can't use only low showings to dictate a character's performance (especially low showings where the character is not going anywhere near all - out, and can't due to harming innocent civilians, and there are extenuating circumstances).

If Wally truly doesn't want to be hit, and his opponent is not another speedster (FTL), and there are no traps specifically set up to counter his powerset, then he is not going to be hit.

Goku does not meet any of those conditions.

I posted scans in the OBD where he was thinking and reacting in attoseconds. Do you know how long an attosecond is?

It's 1/1,000,000,000,000,000,000th of a second.

There are as many attoseconds in a second as there are seconds in the life of the universe so far.

And he can think that fast when he is going through the speedforce.

Bwhahahaahaha Then Flash in ALL of his battles must be low showings then.

All your so called Flash feats are RUNNING feats not in BATTLE, Goku's battle speed and the characters he faced easily outclass Flash. Goku's thinking and reacting speed is greater because he can communicate with people in other Dimensions EASILY.:o

[Phenomenal]

Using your logic, if some guy has 100 bullets shot at him, and he dodges 99 of them and gets hit by one, you would conclude that he can't dodge a bullet and any random guy with a glock would easily beat him.

You can't use only low showings to dictate a character's performance (especially low showings where the character is not going anywhere near all - out, and can't due to harming innocent civilians, and there are extenuating circumstances).

If Wally truly doesn't want to be hit, and his opponent is not another speedster (FTL), and there are no traps specifically set up to counter his powerset, then he is not going to be hit.

Goku does not meet any of those conditions.

I posted scans in the OBD where he was thinking and reacting in attoseconds. Do you know how long an attosecond is?

It's 1/1,000,000,000,000,000,000th of a second.

There are as many attoseconds in a second as there are seconds in the life of the universe so far.

And he can think that fast when he is going through the speedforce.

Bwhahahaahaha Then Flash in ALL of his battles must be low showings then.

All your so called Flash feats are RUNNING feats not in BATTLE, Goku's battle speed and the characters he faced easily outclass Flash. Goku's thinking and reacting speed is greater because he can communicate with people in other Dimensions EASILY.:o

[CBG]

Flash can move his limbs at super-speed without the need to run, you know.

[Endless Mike]

Bwhahahaahaha Then Flash in ALL of his battles must be low showings then.

All your so called Flash feats are RUNNING feats not in BATTLE, Goku's battle speed and the characters he faced easily outclass Flash. Goku's thinking and reacting speed is greater because he can communicate with people in other Dimensions EASILY.

WTF does that have to do with reaction speed?

Once in an instant (a small fraction of the time it took an alien to even form a thought in his head) Flash went around the entire world and turned every radio on earth to the same frequency. THAT is reaction time.

Flash vs. Zum, he had his IMP charged up, and stated he could have used it 1000 times in just one second, if you want a battle feat.

[Phenomenal]

Using your logic, if some guy has 100 bullets shot at him, and he dodges 99 of them and gets hit by one, you would conclude that he can't dodge a bullet and any random guy with a glock would easily beat him.

You can't use only low showings to dictate a character's performance (especially low showings where the character is not going anywhere near all - out, and can't due to harming innocent civilians, and there are extenuating circumstances).

If Wally truly doesn't want to be hit, and his opponent is not another speedster (FTL), and there are no traps specifically set up to counter his powerset, then he is not going to be hit.

Goku does not meet any of those conditions.

I posted scans in the OBD where he was thinking and reacting in attoseconds. Do you know how long an attosecond is?

It's 1/1,000,000,000,000,000,000th of a second.

There are as many attoseconds in a second as there are seconds in the life of the universe so far.

And he can think that fast when he is going through the speedforce.

Sorry wrong post.

[Jplaya2023]

Flash can move his limbs at super-speed without the need to run, you know.

gotta scan?

[CBG]

Flash #200, against Zoom. Standing still, spun his arms at super-speed to create offensive gusts of air.

Hell, even the animated Flash from JL/U could do this, and he's loads weaker. The only animated character more powerful than his comic counterpart is A.M.A.Z.O.

[Jplaya2023]

Hell, even the animated Flash from JL/U could do this, and he's loads weaker. The only animated character more powerful than his comic counterpart is A.M.A.Z.O.

non canon much

[Phenomenal]

WTF does that have to do with reaction speed?

Once in an instant (a small fraction of the time it took an alien to even form a thought in his head) Flash went around the entire world and turned every radio on earth to the same frequency. THAT is reaction time.

Flash vs. Zum, he had his IMP charged up, and stated he could have used it 1000 times in just one second, if you want a battle feat.

Dude, your an Ass an uninformed one at that.

Flash ABSORBED the ENTIRE speed of the world and even absorbed another speedster's speed named Krakel to do that. Flash under his own ability is no where near that.:o

LOL! It took Flash FOUR pages to reach lightspeed and actually hit him and he didn't really punch him technically. He ran right into him with is fist outstretched.

Flash got motion sickness from Zum's After Images, something Goku can do easily in his sleep since he was a CHILD:up:

Flash loses.

[Jplaya2023]

Flash loses.

yup

[CBG]

Ha. How ironic that you're using non-canon, when you argue for it.

[Jplaya2023]

Ha. How ironic that you're using non-canon, when you argue for it.

you wanna use JL examples? fine

acording to the anime radits moves at light speeds at the very start of Z. At the end of Z they're billions time faster than light speed

i win

[CBG]

I say that weaker, adapted version of Wally can move his limbs at superspeed, and you're saying that I'm using non-canon as my main arguement? Over-interpreting, aren't you?

Have you even picked up a Flash comic in your life? Hell, even a single comic? I doubt you picked up enough, given the lack of quality regarding your posted knowledge of comic facts on two forums, newbie.

And that was a dub error, newbie.

[Jplaya2023]

Hell, even a single comic?

Yup wanna know the names 2?

[CBG]

Be my guest, newbie.

[Jplaya2023]

Be my guest, newbie.

hulk - the end

batman - book of the dead

batman vs predator

batman arkam asylum living hell part 1


ultimate spiderman 28

batman vs the hulk (Where batman owned his ass)

batman (azerus) vs the punisher

daredevil vs batman

dc vs marvel 04

spiderman & superman - the heroes of the holocaust

batman legend of the dark knight volume 1

superman & batman #1

superman & batman #2

batman and spiderman

superman vs spiderman (Where spiderman owned his ass)

dc vs marvel #3

superman vs terminator#3

superman vs terminator #4

batmn year 1

fantastic 4 vs xmen volume 1

punisher kills the marvel universe (Sans spiderman)

spectacular spiderman volume1

the untold tales of spiderman volume 1

spiderman and hulk

who'se the noob now noob?

[CBG]

hulk - the end

batman - book of the dead

batman vs predator

batman arkam asylum living hell part 1


ultimate spiderman 28

batman vs the hulk (Where batman owned his ass)

batman (azerus) vs the punisher

daredevil vs batman

dc vs marvel 04

spiderman & superman - the heroes of the holocaust

batman legend of the dark knight volume 1

superman & batman #1

superman & batman #2

batman and spiderman

superman vs spiderman (Where spiderman owned his ass)

dc vs marvel #3

superman vs terminator#3

superman vs terminator #4

batmn year 1

fantastic 4 vs xmen volume 1

punisher kills the marvel universe (Sans spiderman)

spectacular spiderman volume1

the untold tales of spiderman volume 1

spiderman and hulk

who'se the noob now noob?

That little?

And Punisher shot Peter in the head after he incapcitated Venom and Peter with his trap.

Hell, off the top of my head, this is what I read.

-Arkham Asylum
-Batgirl: Silent Running
-Batgirl: A Knight Alone
-Batgirl: Death Wish
-Batgirl: Fists of Fury
-Robin/Batgirl: Fresh Blood
-Batgirl: Destruction's Daughter
-Batman: Dark Victory
-Hush
-Batman vs. Aliens
-Batman vs. Predator
-Batman vs. Predator II
-Batman vs. Predator III
-Batman: Year One
-The Dark Knight Returns
-The Dark Knight Strikes Back
-Batman: The Long Halloween
-Under the Hood Vol. 1

-Crisis on Infinite Earths
-Zero Hour
-DC One Million
-Our Worlds at War
-DC: A New Frontier Vol. 1 & 2
-Kingdom Come

-Identity Crisis
-Green Lantern: Rebirth
-Countdown to Infinite Crisis
-Day of Vengeance
-The Death & Return of Donna Troy
-The OMAC Project
-Rann/Thangar War
-Villains United
-Infinite Crisis
-DCU: Brave New World
-52 Week 1 to 20

-Crisis in Bludhaven #1 to #6
-Robin OYL
-Ion
-JSA OYL
-Teen Titans #1 to #39 (Johns reboot)
-Across the DC Universe by Alan Moore

-The Question #1 to #36
-The Question Annual #1 to #2
-The Question Quarterly #1 to #5
-The Question Returns
-The Question #1 to #6 (mini-series)

-Supergirl: Many Happy Returns
-Supergirl #1 to #9
-Superman: For Tomorrow
-Superman: Infinite Crisis
-Superman: Up, Up, & Away
-Superman: Secret Identity

-Superman/Batman #1 to #26

I haven't posted anything regarding of Marvel and DC's VERTIGO imprint in my collection. Hell, I haven't even got to half of what I have DC-wise -- maybe a third at best -- , and already, I read more than you.

[Jplaya2023]

That little?

And Punisher shot Peter in the head after he incapcitated Venom and Peter with his trap.



Spiderman was worn out from the fight from venom plus bad writing got the best of spidey again

[Ultra-Herald9]

That little?

And Punisher shot Peter in the head after he incapcitated Venom and Peter with his trap.

Hell, off the top of my head, this is what I read.

-Arkham Asylum
-Batgirl: Silent Running
-Batgirl: A Knight Alone
-Batgirl: Death Wish
-Batgirl: Fists of Fury
-Robin/Batgirl: Fresh Blood
-Batgirl: Destruction's Daughter
-Batman: Dark Victory
-Hush
-Batman vs. Aliens
-Batman vs. Predator
-Batman vs. Predator II
-Batman vs. Predator III
-Batman: Year One
-The Dark Knight Returns
-The Dark Knight Strikes Back
-Batman: The Long Halloween
-Under the Hood Vol. 1

-Crisis on Infinite Earths
-Zero Hour
-DC One Million
-Our Worlds at War
-DC: A New Frontier Vol. 1 & 2
-Kingdom Come

-Identity Crisis
-Green Lantern: Rebirth
-Countdown to Infinite Crisis
-Day of Vengeance
-The Death & Return of Donna Troy
-The OMAC Project
-Rann/Thangar War
-Villains United
-Infinite Crisis
-DCU: Brave New World
-52 Week 1 to 20

-Crisis in Bludhaven #1 to #6
-Robin OYL
-Ion
-JSA OYL
-Teen Titans #1 to #39 (Johns reboot)
-Across the DC Universe by Alan Moore

-The Question #1 to #36
-The Question Annual #1 to #2
-The Question Quarterly #1 to #5
-The Question Returns
-The Question #1 to #6 (mini-series)

-Supergirl: Many Happy Returns
-Supergirl #1 to #9
-Superman: For Tomorrow
-Superman: Infinite Crisis
-Superman: Up, Up, & Away
-Superman: Secret Identity

-Superman/Batman #1 to #26

I haven't posted anything regarding of Marvel and DC's VERTIGO imprint in my collection. Hell, I haven't even got to half of what I have DC-wise -- maybe a third at best -- , and already, I read more than you.


D**M! Jplaya just got outclassed! And he used spaces between his list!:woot: :woot: :woot: :oldrazz:

[Ultra-Herald9]

Spiderman was worn out from the fight from venom plus bad writing got the best of spidey again

You say that like Spider-Man is powerful! Spider-Man has been defeated PLENTY OF TIMES!!!

[Jplaya2023]

You say that like Spider-Man is powerful! Spider-Man has been defeated PLENTY OF TIMES!!!

1. Spiderman is tied with batman as the 2nd greatest fighter in fiction

2. Bad writing on the author parts

3. Spiderman holds back in every fight for fear of killing his opponent

[Ultra-Herald9]

1. Spiderman is tied with batman as the 2nd greatest fighter in fiction

2. Bad writing on the author parts

3. Spiderman holds back in every fight for fear of killing his opponent

WHAT THE HECK!!!! Spider-man isn't even that great a fighter! He made a fighting style that works for him incorperating his agility and strength! He's nowhere near Captain America or even Daredevil's fighting skill! Thier are so many characters that are better fighters than Spider-Man!

Second Batman isn't even the best fighter in the DC universe! I could list a load of fighters that can and have owned Batman in fair hand to hand fights!

Spider-Man only holds back when facing someone weaker than himself! He usually uses all his strength when fighting someone with durability enough to withstand is blows!

Pick up some comics seriously! You just treat your pesonal favorite characters like they are the most powerful characters in comics. Oh and Goku isn't even the best in his universe!

[Jplaya2023]

WHAT THE HECK!!!! Spider-man isn't even that great a fighter! He made a fighting style that works for him incorperating his agility and strength! He's nowhere near Captain America or even Daredevil's fighting skill! Thier are so many characters that are better fighters than Spider-Man!


spiderman has owned DD and CA numerous times

Second Batman isn't even the best fighter in the DC universe! I could list a load of fighters that can and have owned Batman in fair hand to hand fights!

That list would be a farse. No one is better than batman


Spider-Man only holds back when facing someone weaker than himself! He usually uses all his strength when fighting someone with durability enough to withstand is blows!

Nah he holds back if he ever got serious he could kill guys like hulk juggy with a highspeed combination

Pick up some comics seriously! You just treat your pesonal favorite characters like they are the most powerful characters in comics. Oh and Goku isn't even the best in his universe!


No it just so happens my favs are the best. I cant help that

[Ultra-Herald9]

OMG......................:dry: :dry:

Jplaya is really serious.......

I'm so sorry about your lack of comic knowledge.....I assumed you actually knew about comics again I'm sorry. You clearly show that you have no knowledge of comics when you said these things. Let me inform you....


1.Spiderman isn't even class 50.....Juggernaut(even the weak current one) and Hulk(not even enraged) could easily knock out spider-man.

2.Karate Kid is the best martial artist in the DC universe shown so far.

[Jplaya2023]

1.Spiderman isn't even class 50.....Juggernaut(even the weak current one) and Hulk(not even enraged) could easily knock out spider-man.

spiderman's punching power >>> his strength

2.Karate Kid is the best martial artist in the DC universe shown so far.

no i'll go with batman he knows over 127 forms of martial arts, sparring, ninjutso, taijutso, etc..

[Ultra-Herald9]

no i'll go with batman he knows over 127 forms of martial arts, sparring, ninjutso, taijutso, etc..

Karate Kid has mastered every martial art in the universe as a teenager!

Hulks and Juggernauts punching power DWARF spideys easily!

[CBG]

Karate Kid mastered all 127 styles -- and MORE, in the 30TH CENTURY.

Richard Dragon
Cassandra Cain
Lady Shiva
Bronze Tiger
Constantine Drakon
Connor Hawke
Batman

If I were to include metas, Deathstroke would be above Batman.

[CBG]

spiderman's punching power <<< his strength

Corrected.

Hell, I bet you haven't even read Spider-Man: The Other.

Morlun beat Peter to death, despite GIVING IT HIS ALL. Heck, Morlun beat him so badly, Peter's corpse was missing an eye, and his face was beaten beyond recognition by the media (the paramedics unmasked him).

[Ultra-Herald9]

Karate Kid mastered all 127 styles -- and MORE, in the 30TH CENTURY.

Richard Dragon
Cassandra Cain
Lady Shiva
Bronze Tiger
Constantine Drakon
Connor Hawke
Batman

If I were to include metas, Deathstroke would be above Batman.

He's right. Believe it or not I was gonna post most of these guys too but I knwe Jplaya would say "Bhatman Zuper lol pwns allzzzz". So I went for the best I knew of the top of my head!

[Ultra-Herald9]

Corrected.

Hell, I bet you haven't even read Spider-Man: The Other.

Morlun beat Peter to death, despite GIVING IT HIS ALL. Heck, Morlun beat him so badly, Peter's corpse was missing an eye, and his face was beaten beyond recognition by the media (the paramedics unmasked him).

He's gonna say bad writing.

[Sloth7d]

This is getting ridiculous.

[Endless Mike]

Dude, your an Ass an uninformed one at that.

Flash ABSORBED the ENTIRE speed of the world and even absorbed another speedster's speed named Krakel to do that. Flash under his own ability is no where near that.

LOL! It took Flash FOUR pages to reach lightspeed and actually hit him and he didn't really punch him technically. He ran right into him with is fist outstretched.

Flash got motion sickness from Zum's After Images, something Goku can do easily in his sleep since he was a CHILD

Flash loses.

For the last time, it was a strobe light, brightly flashing lights combined with afterimages to disorient him. You keep ignoring this. He said he could punch him 1000 times in a second, and in the chain lightning arc, he reacted at attosecond intervals.

Combat speed is simply a combination of travel speed + reaction speed + perception speed. If you have all 3, you have combat speed.

[Phenomenal]

For the last time, it was a strobe light, brightly flashing lights combined with afterimages to disorient him. You keep ignoring this. He said he could punch him 1000 times in a second, and in the chain lightning arc, he reacted at attosecond intervals.

Combat speed is simply a combination of travel speed + reaction speed + perception speed. If you have all 3, you have combat speed.

So?

Strobe Flicker is an After Image, the fact that Flash couldn't cope with that speed shows that Gokuu will easily dance around him. Flash took FOUR pages to reach lightspeed and that is too slow against a Saiya-jin who specializes in high speed combat.:o

Flash has NO combat speed, he does not stand their and trade blows at Super Speeds. Flash runs around all of the time. Hell, he even had to run halfway across the world to charge up and hurt Gorilla Grodd.

Goku kill's the Flash in an instant.:up:

[Sloth7d]

If Goku powers up flash will be sent flying several feet.-Fact

[Endless Mike]

So?

Strobe Flicker is an After Image, the fact that Flash couldn't cope with that speed shows that Gokuu will easily dance around him. Flash took FOUR pages to reach lightspeed and that is too slow against a Saiya-jin who specializes in high speed combat.

Flash has NO combat speed, he does not stand their and trade blows at Super Speeds. Flash runs around all of the time. Hell, he even had to run halfway across the world to charge up and hurt Gorilla Grodd.

Goku kill's the Flash in an instant.

Did you just ignore what I said?

It was a brightly flashing light at superspeed combined with afterimages, blinding him.

Flash could punch the guy 1000 times in a second, and the guy was a lightspeed fighter himself. That's way beyond anything in DBZ, ever.

[Endless Mike]

If Goku powers up flash will be sent flying several feet.-Fact

No, because before Goku's neurons can even fire, Flash would have vibrated through his brain and made it explode.

[Sloth7d]

No, because before Goku's neurons can even fire, Flash would have vibrated through his brain and made it explode.
Flash wouldn't have a chance because the energy output wouldn't allow him get close.

[Phenomenal]

Did you just ignore what I said?

It was a brightly flashing light at superspeed combined with afterimages, blinding him.

Flash could punch the guy 1000 times in a second, and the guy was a lightspeed fighter himself. That's way beyond anything in DBZ, ever.

http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/5/29/41941/Flash1.jpg

What bright lights blinding the Flash:rolleyes: The After Images gave him motion sickness and he could not cope with them at all. Goku since he was a CHILD could do After Images in his sleep, Gokuu can dance around Flash like he was at the DDR Arcades.:up:

Flash had to charge up FOUR pages to reach lightspeed and that is not going to help you against a Saiya-jin who can kill you in a blink of an eye. Gokuu beats him.

[Endless Mike]

Flash wouldn't have a chance because the energy output wouldn't allow him get close.

If Flash can break through the Anti - Monitor's armor, he can go through Goku's ki.:whatever:

With his momentum something that simple couldn't stop him.

Besides, what part of 'Goku won't be able to do anything and won't even realize what hit him' do you not understand?

[Endless Mike]

What bright lights blinding the Flash:rolleyes: The After Images gave him motion sickness and he could not cope with them at all. Goku since he was a CHILD could do After Images in his sleep, Gokuu can dance around Flash like he was at the DDR Arcades.:up:

Flash had to charge up FOUR pages to reach lightspeed and that is not going to help you against a Saiya-jin who can kill you in a blink of an eye. Gokuu beats him.

Did you miss the light blobs, frequencies, and strobe flicker comment?

It was a blinding attack, clearly more than just afterimages, since Flash himself, Superman, Wonder Woman, hell, every DC top tier create after images all the time and Flash doesn't have trouble with them.

They were fighting all around the world at lightspeed, that's something above anything ever shown in DBZ, where fights always begin and end in the same area, no more than 20 or so kilometers away.

[Phenomenal]

Did you miss the light blobs, frequencies, and strobe flicker comment?

It was a blinding attack, clearly more than just afterimages, since Flash himself, Superman, Wonder Woman, hell, every DC top tier create after images all the time and Flash doesn't have trouble with them.

They were fighting all around the world at lightspeed, that's something above anything ever shown in DBZ, where fights always begin and end in the same area, no more than 20 or so kilometers away.

No a strobe Flicker is basically an After Image, where in the hell did you get the After Images blinding the Flash from:confused:.

Bwhahahahaha "they were fighting around the world at lightspeed." Your chatting garbage, they were no where near lightspeed doing that, did you forget It took Flash FOUR pages to reach lightspeed:o.

DBZ speed does not use useless movement like the Flash, basically you blink your dead.:up:

[CBG]

STROBE

1. a device for studying the motion of a body, esp. a body in rapid revolution or vibration, by making the motion appear to slow down or stop, as by periodically illuminating the body or viewing it through widely spaced openings in a revolving disk.
2. Photography. a. Also called strobe, strobe light, stroboscopic lamp. a lamp capable of producing an extremely short, brilliant burst of light, for synchronization with a camera having a high shutter speed, in order to photograph a rapidly moving object, as a bullet, for such a short duration that it will appear to be standing still.
b. the device and equipment for holding and firing such a lamp.

3. such a lamp used for creating special lighting effects, as in a theater or discotheque or at a rock concert.

[Gotenks]

This is getting ridiculous.

Yeah its crazy, but fun to read.

[Endless Mike]

No a strobe Flicker is basically an After Image, where in the hell did you get the After Images blinding the Flash from.

Strobe flicker = bright flashing light.

Bwhahahahaha "they were fighting around the world at lightspeed." Your chatting garbage, they were no where near lightspeed doing that, did you forget It took Flash FOUR pages to reach lightspeed.

You do realize you just contradicted yourself, right?:whatever:

DBZ speed does not use useless movement like the Flash, basically you blink your dead.:up:

All of their movements will be useless when faced with someone who moves, thinks, and percieves things at a rate beyond anything they can even imagine. Flash raced around the entire universe in a matter of days, he outran Death by escaping to the end of time, I can go on. Just because he once was grabbed by Grodd when he had his back turned to him and wasn't even paying attention to Grodd and was busy worrying about Nightwing, and easily escaped a second later, hardly means that all of his feats mean nothing.

[Ultra-Herald9]

Exactly Mike. These guys don't seem to understand that the Flash is INFINITE speed. All the keep saying is "Goku would kill him in an istant" but what they don't understand that if Flash wants Goku dead then Goku is dead! Flashes powers are actually a huge burden for him! They are quite possibly the most dangeroues powers for someone who is trying to save people to have. He can't move to fast around people because he could easily kill them! He can't hit people to fast cause he can acidentally hit someone with infinite mass!

Flash could have easily vibrated right through Grodd like a saw! Flash could also kill Goku quite easily in a number of ways including moving him to the sun in like a nanosecond! Heck the Flashes had Superboy Prime scared as hell and Superboy prime is near infinately powerful! You guys post one example of Flash having problems yet when Endless Mike tries to logically explain things you just disregard it!

[Sloth7d]

And the moral of the story is-
No matter how much you argue on these threads everyone leaves with the same opinion they had before. And each side can prove to some extent that they're right and the other is wrong, but that doesn't matter in the end because no one is listening.
-have a good day folks I'm going to bed

[Endless Mike]

And the moral of the story is-
No matter how much you argue on these threads everyone leaves with the same opinion they had before. And each side can prove to some extent that they're right and the other is wrong, but that doesn't matter in the end because no one is listening.
-have a good day folks I'm going to bed

If that's what you think, then why even participate?

[Warhammer]

Yeah its crazy, but fun to read.

I don't post in 3 days and s*** is crazy when I come back. :D

[Sloth7d]

I don't post in 3 days and s*** is crazy when I come back. :D
*hands warhammer and Gotenks a bag of popcorn*
Lets enjoy from the sideline.:word:

[Warhammer]

*hands warhammer and Gotenks a bag of popcorn*
Lets enjoy from the sideline.:word:

Good man. :up: :cool:

*Agrees, sits back, and relaxes*

[Ultra-Herald9]

awww no popcorn:csad: :csad: .........

[Phenomenal]

Strobe flicker = bright flashing light.

And? an After Image produces light, Flash was not blinded like you claim. Flash could not handle it.

You do realize you just contradicted yourself, right?:whatever:

No, I quoted what you claimed to be lightspeed "All around the world." Flash reached light towards the end not the entire fight.

All of their movements will be useless when faced with someone who moves, thinks, and percieves things at a rate beyond anything they can even imagine. Flash raced around the entire universe in a matter of days, he outran Death by escaping to the end of time, I can go on. Just because he once was grabbed by Grodd when he had his back turned to him and wasn't even paying attention to Grodd and was busy worrying about Nightwing, and easily escaped a second later, hardly means that all of his feats mean nothing.

Guess you don't realize how irrelevant your last statement is because Flash Running and racing has nothing to do with this fight against a Saiya-jin who specializes in super speed combat. Flash uses too much useless movement. Goku outclasses the Flash in combat.

[SouLeSS]

Pre-Crisis Superman would give him a challenge.

[Ultra-Herald9]

Pre-Crisis Superman would give him a challenge.

To easy though......

[Ultra-Herald9]

Thats why if we are talking flashes here then we should use Barry Allen! he could beat Goku and Gohan at the same time(literally)!

[Phenomenal]

Thats why if we are talking flashes here then we should use Barry Allen! he could beat Goku and Gohan at the same time(literally)!

Bwhahahaahahaaha....

[Ultra-Herald9]

Bwhahahaahahaaha....


Don't laugh if you don't know the character please.

[Phenomenal]

I was laughing because it is obvious that you have no idea what you are talking about.

[Ultra-Herald9]

I was laughing because it is obvious that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Dude I think I explained a while back that Goku has no chance against Barry.....

[Phenomenal]

Oh sorry!

I must have missed your post, my bad for jumping on you like that.

[Ultra-Herald9]

Oh sorry!

I must have missed your post, my bad for jumping on you like that.

Its cool:cwink: .

[Keollyn]

V3 list

Anime/Manga
RahXephon
Eiko Magami
Dark Schneider
Burori
Tenchi Misaki
Ryo Sanada
Son Goku
Sailor Moon
Akira


Comic
Gladiator
Thor
New Sun
The Hulk
Karate Kid
Onslaught
Beyonder
Parallax
Lobo
Thanos
KC Flash
Spawn
Lucifer
Dr. Strange
Saints of Killers
Blackbolt
Martian Manhunter
Mephisto
AMAZO

Video Game
Laharl
Id
Lenneth Valkyrie
Gabriel
Pyron
Infinity Dragon
Harman
C'Tan
Yuri Hyuga
Tir McDohl

Other
Jane
Popeye
The Shrike

V4.... eventually

[SouLeSS]

Aquaman would give Goku a challenge. Ahah.

[Jplaya2023]

Aquaman would give Goku a challenge. Ahah.

these guys are clowns

[SouLeSS]

These guys? I named one.

Unless you're talking about Goku being a clown as well.

[CBG]

Is that list for giving Goku a good fight or beating him?

[Keollyn]

Beating him.... horribly.

[CBG]

First, I'm surprised to see Son Goku on that list. He beats himself?

Second, for Spawn, it's King of Hell Spawn, right?

Third, Sailor Moon? Really?

Fourth. . . you sure it's just regular Popeye with no spinach?

[Keollyn]

Son Goku of Saiyuki.

I'm not sure which Spawn. But there's a Spawn out that can do ANYTHING with magic so long has he wills it. And I believe he has 1000 usage of magic...

Eternal Sailor Moon can.

I didn't add Popeye with spinach because I assume people believe all the ones on the list are at their strongest. Popeye with spinach is his strongest.

[Endless Mike]

And? an After Image produces light, Flash was not blinded like you claim. Flash could not handle it.

You missed the 'blinding' qualifier.

Flash was having trouble seeing because of the flashing strobe lights combined with speedforce frequencies to disorient him. This is a technique that no one in the DBZverse posesses.


No, I quoted what you claimed to be lightspeed "All around the world." Flash reached light towards the end not the entire fight.

While they were racing all around the world.

DBZ fights always take place in the same battleground only the size of a large city.


Guess you don't realize how irrelevant your last statement is because Flash Running and racing has nothing to do with this fight against a Saiya-jin who specializes in super speed combat. Flash uses too much useless movement. Goku outclasses the Flash in combat.

Prove it, considering Flash can react at attosecond intervals and punch someone who is moving at lightspeed 1000 times in a second.

[Endless Mike]

these guys are clowns

Well if it takes place underwater and Aquaman pulls that plankton move....:woot:

[Phenomenal]

You missed the 'blinding' qualifier.

Flash was having trouble seeing because of the flashing strobe lights combined with speedforce frequencies to disorient him. This is a technique that no one in the DBZverse posesses.

Don't PISS in my ear and tell me it's raining. Nowhere in the comic does it state that Flash was having trouble seeing. He clearly said the After Images were messing with his "head." DBZ has Solar Flare and After Images that they deal with way better than the Flash.

While they were racing all around the world.

DBZ fights always take place in the same battleground only the size of a large city.

This is a fight not a race:o .

DBZ does NOT use useless movement like the Flash does in a fight:up:


Prove it, considering Flash can react at attosecond intervals and punch someone who is moving at lightspeed 1000 times in a second.

Flash can not react at "attoseconds" without absorbing the speed of the ENTIRE world and more. Flash does all his feats Running when Goku actually can kill people in a blink of an eye and has fought people who can EASILY kill the Flash. Goku and his rogues outclass the Flash.

[Endless Mike]

Don't PISS in my ear and tell me it's raining. Nowhere in the comic does it state that Flash was having trouble seeing. He clearly said the After Images were messing with his "head." DBZ has Solar Flare and After Images that they deal with way better than the Flash.

He was being disoriented and covering his eyes, and the effect was described as a 'strobe flicker'. You do realize that, by definition, he was being blinded, right?

Not to mention the other component to the attack, which was some weird speedforce frequency thing that was interrupting his concentration.

It's hardly as simple as you're making it sound.


This is a fight not a race .

DBZ does NOT use useless movement like the Flash does in a fight

Figures I would have to spell it out for you.

The point is that DBZ characters are not that fast, since their fights do not take place over very long distances. Moving at even close to the speed of light would put you halfway around the world in the time it took to blink an eye.

Perhaps I should point out when Goku was fighting Oozaru Vegeta and he used Taiyoken and then tried to buy distance to start his Genki Dama? He only managed to get a few hundred meters away, if he was as fast as you say he is he could have gone to the next country in that time.

Flash can not react at "attoseconds" without absorbing the speed of the ENTIRE world and more.

False. The attosecond event happened in the chain lightning arc, when he was not using anyone's speed but his own.

Flash does all his feats Running when Goku actually can kill people in a blink of an eye and has fought people who can EASILY kill the Flash. Goku and his rogues outclass the Flash.

In your little dream world, maybe, yet you haven't even proved how they're going to see the Flash, let alone hit him, especially when he can just vibrate through all of their attacks and can win just by touching them once or even getting near them (speed steal). Goku and DBZ characters will be just statues from the Flash's perspective.

[Phenomenal]

He was being disoriented and covering his eyes, and the effect was described as a 'strobe flicker'. You do realize that, by definition, he was being blinded, right?

Not to mention the other component to the attack, which was some weird speedforce frequency thing that was interrupting his concentration.

It's hardly as simple as you're making it sound.

No, it is simple, Flash says that it is messing with his "HEAD." Nothing to do with his sight.

Figures I would have to spell it out for you.

The point is that DBZ characters are not that fast, since their fights do not take place over very long distances. Moving at even close to the speed of light would put you halfway around the world in the time it took to blink an eye.Perhaps I should point out when Goku was fighting Oozaru Vegeta and he used Taiyoken and then tried to buy distance to start his Genki Dama? He only managed to get a few hundred meters away, if he was as fast as you say he is he could have gone to the next country in that time.

Wow, give yourself a hand for a great statement and using an example of a weakend and damaged Goku from the Saiya-jin Saga:rolleyes:.Traveling long distances (from country to country) in a fight has nothing to do with combat speed it has to do with running speed. DBZ characters don't run when they fight, they are going at each other exchanging blows at Super Speeds.

False. The attosecond event happened in the chain lightning arc, when he was not using anyone's speed but his own.

Oh, please show me a scan?

In your little dream world, maybe, yet you haven't even proved how they're going to see the Flash, let alone hit him, especially when he can just vibrate through all of their attacks and can win just by touching them once or even getting near them (speed steal). Goku and DBZ characters will be just statues from the Flash's perspective.

Goku can easily see and SENSE the Flash, that will be no problem for the Saiya-jin. Flash won't even see or keep up with a Saiya-jin who can vanish and reappear in a blink of an eye, who can also become intangible. Flash will be swinging at After Images all day. Goku can use Shunkan Idou and KO the Flash easily.:up:

[Mistress Gluon]

Actually, fight speed utilizes the same idea of speed as running speed. It's not like it becomes a whole different force. If Flash was "amped up" (let's call it that), then if Goku is moving anything less than the speed of light, he'd basically be standing still to the Flash. And the Flash could always suck his speed away. And if it's Bart Allen, there's no speed force to dissapear into supposedly, and so he can run well beyond light speeds.

[Endless Mike]

No, it is simple, Flash says that it is messing with his "HEAD." Nothing to do with his sight.

Let's review the dialogue, shall we?

"Dozens of him. Modulating the frequency of his afterimages to create a strobe flicker. Frequencies messing with my head."

NOT

"He's using afterimages! I've never seen that before so now I am helpless!"

Which is apparently what you see when you read that panel.

Do you know the definition of the word 'strobe'?

Comic Book Guy posted it a few pages back.

Needless to say, this is a type of combat DBZ characters have never used. It would possibly be similar to genjutsu from Naruto.

Wow, give yourself a hand for a great statement and using an example of a weakend and damaged Goku from the Saiya-jin Saga.Traveling long distances (from country to country) in a fight has nothing to do with combat speed it has to do with running speed. DBZ characters don't run when they fight, they are going at each other exchanging blows at Super Speeds.

So apparently when he is a little banged up, he can only travel a few hundred meters in 5 seconds?

You're missing the point. If they head in one direction for even a fraction of a second, at the speeds you are suggesting they move at, they would end up much farther away then they ever actually do. If they really move that fast, there is no logical reason why they would stay in such a small area for the duration of the entire fight. We've seen them zanzoken for several second intervals, that would be more than enough to run laps around the earth if they move as fast as you think they do.


Oh, please show me a scan?

No problem.

http://img94.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flash145p179lr.jpg

And in case you complain that that was Jesse Quick and Max Mercury, I should inform you that Wally was the one narrating, and in the previous page he was there with them (by this time he had moved ahead already).

http://img94.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flash145p166fv.jpg

So really, he's even faster than that.


Goku can easily see and SENSE the Flash

When has he ever seen or sensed an enemy travelling at the Flash's speed?


that will be no problem for the Saiya-jin. Flash won't even see or keep up with a Saiya-jin who can vanish and reappear in a blink of an eye

You mean the generic anime effect with no timeframe given that is done by tons of characters in anime and manga, even the normal humans from Rorouni Kenshin? :whatever:


who can also become intangible

Bull****.

Prove this ridiculous assertion (without using the non - canon filler scene from the anime which was specifically described in the anime as simply him moving out of the way and back quickly).

Flash will be swinging at After Images all day.

Except the real Goku moves so slowly compared to the Flash, especially considering Flash's FTL senses that can track a single particle, that he would easily kill the real one. Goku wouldn't even have time to think before a bloodlusted Flash kills him.


Goku can use Shunkan Idou and KO the Flash easily.

I already explained this.

IF Goku can get an idea of where the Flash is (which won't happen) and IF he can think fast enough to activate IT before the Flash kills him (which won't happen) then he'll simply arrive at a spot where the Flash was but has moved from already in the time it took him to think about and activate IT.

Show me something quantifiable (as in actual numbers stated or that can be deduced) from Goku that compare to Flash's attosecond reaction times.

[Phenomenal]

Let's review the dialogue, shall we?

"Dozens of him. Modulating the frequency of his afterimages to create a strobe flicker. Frequencies messing with my head."

NOT

"He's using afterimages! I've never seen that before so now I am helpless!"

Which is apparently what you see when you read that panel.

Do you know the definition of the word 'strobe'?

Comic Book Guy posted it a few pages back.

Needless to say, this is a type of combat DBZ characters have never used. It would possibly be similar to genjutsu from Naruto.

No, I meant that the Whole technique was messing with his head! DBZ deals with Solar Flare and After Images better than the Flash.



So apparently when he is a little banged up, he can only travel a few hundred meters in 5 seconds?

You're missing the point. If they head in one direction for even a fraction of a second, at the speeds you are suggesting they move at, they would end up much farther away then they ever actually do. If they really move that fast, there is no logical reason why they would stay in such a small area for the duration of the entire fight. We've seen them zanzoken for several second intervals, that would be more than enough to run laps around the earth if they move as fast as you think they do.

Yeah, the Body torn apart from fighting Vegeta and using kaioken is a little "banged up.":rolleyes:

The Z Senshi fight at Super speeds by exchanging blows which results in them always going AT each other. They never run side to side and travel long distances (like Flash). LOL! "several second intervals" you pulled that out of your ass.


No problem.

http://img94.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flash145p179lr.jpg

And in case you complain that that was Jesse Quick and Max Mercury, I should inform you that Wally was the one narrating, and in the previous page he was there with them (by this time he had moved ahead already).

http://img94.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flash145p166fv.jpg

So really, he's even faster than that.



When has he ever seen or sensed an enemy travelling at the Flash's speed?

Bwhahahahaa Bullocks! that does not show anything concerning reflexes they are running AGAIN. Besides If I am not mistaken I read that Comic and they used the Treadmill. So Bleh.

You mean the generic anime effect with no timeframe given that is done by tons of characters in anime and manga, even the normal humans from Rorouni Kenshin? :whatever:

Bull****.

Prove this ridiculous assertion (without using the non - canon filler scene from the anime which was specifically described in the anime as simply him moving out of the way and back quickly).

Except the real Goku moves so slowly compared to the Flash, especially considering Flash's FTL senses that can track a single particle, that he would easily kill the real one. Goku wouldn't even have time to think before a bloodlusted Flash kills him.
I already explained this.

IF Goku can get an idea of where the Flash is (which won't happen) and IF he can think fast enough to activate IT before the Flash kills him (which won't happen) then he'll simply arrive at a spot where the Flash was but has moved from already in the time it took him to think about and activate IT.

Show me something quantifiable (as in actual numbers stated or that can be deduced) from Goku that compare to Flash's attosecond reaction times.

Sure
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jrlR9qeG0NQ

Shunkan Idou (Infinite Speed)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=5NCJG454cOs

Flash loses, Hell Ginyu Force WEAKEST member Gurd can EASILY kill the Flash.

[Mistress Gluon]

Isn't Cooler non canon?

[CBG]

Cooler's non-canon.

[Mistress Gluon]

I thought so.

[Endless Mike]

First, before I get to rebutting your crap, can you learn to quote properly? It's so annoying having to copy - and - paste your responses all the time.

No, I meant that the Whole technique was messing with his head! DBZ deals with Solar Flare and After Images better than the Flash.

Exactly, the whole technique, which was a complicated trick. Not a simple afterimage, which Flash sees all the time, and creates all the time as well.

As for DBZ characters 'dealing' with solar flare, AFAIK that technique has pretty much a 100% success rate if they can actually get it off, and several times it has been used by weaker characters and worked on stronger characters. I can't think of a single instance where it was used against someone and they did something other than cover their eyes, run around and scream, attacking randomly. That's hardly 'dealing with it'. Flash did better than they did.

Yeah, the Body torn apart from fighting Vegeta and using kaioken is a little "banged up."

He still had full use of all his limbs, and his ki, and he was still able to fight well after that point. You're really making pathetic excuses now, if DBZ characters lose 99.999999999999999999999% of their speed when they are exhausted and hurt from a battle, then they should stop doing superspeed moves after the battle has been going on for a while, but that never happens. You're just making up crap again.

The Z Senshi fight at Super speeds by exchanging blows which results in them always going AT each other. They never run side to side and travel long distances (like Flash). LOL! "several second intervals" you pulled that out of your ass.

No, it's based on the fact that people have time to comment and say things when it happens (often normal humans watching the fights).

And are you seriously suggesting they never dodge, retreat, regroup, try to get a better vantage point for an attack, etc.? All of this stuff happens in DBZ fights. In fact in many fights one guy finds him or herself outclassed and tries to hide, they always hide in the same general area, they never zip around to the other side of the world or anything.

Let me bring up another instance: When Majin Buu was first released, Gohan tried to escape, saying he would go at his highest speed, and he flew for several seconds before Buu intercepted him, but he wasn't halfway around the world, he was in the same general area as where he left from. If I had to estimate I would say he had only moved a few kilometers at most.

In fact, here's another one!

When 18 and 16 were trying to escape from Cell, they only flew a short distance and hid on an island. If they were as fast as you say they are, she could have just grabbed him and zipped around to the other side of the planet. Remember, they have no ki signatures, so Cell wouldn't be able to track them.

Your speculation on this amazing speed DBZ characters have is completely unsupported, in fact actually contradicted, by canon.


Bwhahahahaa Bullocks! that does not show anything concerning reflexes they are running AGAIN. Besides If I am not mistaken I read that Comic and they used the Treadmill. So Bleh.

Yes, to send them through time (which has nothing to do with their reaction times, and which Wally has proved on several occasions he can do under his own power). And you're missing the point. It doesn't matter if they're running, the fact is that they were thinking and percieving things at such a speed. With that kind of reaction time, Goku's attacks would appear frozen to them and they could easily dodge and kill him. Do you understand how impressive it is to have an entire conversation within the scope of attoseconds?

Sure
*snip link*

Okay, so let's see what we have here: a video of three clips combined.

Two of which are non - canon anime filler scenes, and the third is just standard projectile dodging. The most important thing being, of course, that none of these have any type of numbers attached or have anything calcable.

You really have trouble with the word 'quantify', don't you?

Why don't you tell me exactly how fast Frieza's beams were going (as in, a numerical value of speed).

Shunkan Idou (Infinite Speed)
*snip link*

Which is teleportation, not speed, and looking at the clip, it's from a non - canon movie, where the movie writers apparently didn't do their research and the power wasn't even portrayed correctly. :whatever:

I ask you again: Provide a QUANTIFIABLE example of Goku's speed that can compare to Flash's attosecond reaction times.

[Mistress Gluon]

It's impossible. They didn't provide much measurement. Comparisons are all you'll be able to give.

[Endless Mike]

So in other words, he's got nothing, but he'll keep resorting to his pathetic 'argument' of "OMG the art is drawn all blurry with disappearing and afterimages so it must be faster!"

The same thing happens in Kenshin.....geez.

[Mistress Gluon]

When talking about solid numbers, not really. But you'll have to try and pull it into context. They obviously don't move in lightspeed, since their fights last for hours, and punches and kick combo's take seconds, which would only be sonic speed.

[Phenomenal]

Exactly, the whole technique, which was a complicated trick. Not a simple afterimage, which Flash sees all the time, and creates all the time as well.

As for DBZ characters 'dealing' with solar flare, AFAIK that technique has pretty much a 100% success rate if they can actually get it off, and several times it has been used by weaker characters and worked on stronger characters. I can't think of a single instance where it was used against someone and they did something other than cover their eyes, run around and scream, attacking randomly. That's hardly 'dealing with it'. Flash did better than they did.


Wrong! Goku has dodge Soalr Flare at point blank range, and even grabbed Roshi's sunglasses without anyone noticing as a CHILD in Dragonball and handles Multiple after Images like a pro. Flash got motion sickness from all of the above.

He still had full use of all his limbs, and his ki, and he was still able to fight well after that point. You're really making pathetic excuses now, if DBZ characters lose 99.999999999999999999999% of their speed when they are exhausted and hurt from a battle, then they should stop doing superspeed moves after the battle has been going on for a while, but that never happens. You're just making up crap again.

How is Goku going anywhere with Barely no damn Ki at all? Or did your ignorant bias allow you to forget.:up:


No, it's based on the fact that people have time to comment and say things when it happens (often normal humans watching the fights).

And are you seriously suggesting they never dodge, retreat, regroup, try to get a better vantage point for an attack, etc.? All of this stuff happens in DBZ fights. In fact in many fights one guy finds him or herself outclassed and tries to hide, they always hide in the same general area, they never zip around to the other side of the world or anything.

Let me bring up another instance: When Majin Buu was first released, Gohan tried to escape, saying he would go at his highest speed, and he flew for several seconds before Buu intercepted him, but he wasn't halfway around the world, he was in the same general area as where he left from. If I had to estimate I would say he had only moved a few kilometers at most.

In fact, here's another one!

When 18 and 16 were trying to escape from Cell, they only flew a short distance and hid on an island. If they were as fast as you say they are, she could have just grabbed him and zipped around to the other side of the planet. Remember, they have no ki signatures, so Cell wouldn't be able to track them.

Your speculation on this amazing speed DBZ characters have is completely unsupported, in fact actually contradicted, by canon.


This whole paragraph is filled with holes.

Babidi's first order for Buu is to kill Gohan and Kaioushin, and so Gohan grabs Kaioushin-sama and flies off, saying he's confident in his own speed. But, Buu, then zooms off in an instant, appearing ahead of them. Babidi smacks Gohan away into a random mountain thing. Yeah Gohan is going to travel across the world while Buu is in front of him.:rolleyes:

Also for your weak Cell and Android theory LOL! They did not fly anywhere because Android 16 told 18 to hide in one of the islands because if they tried to fly away Cell would "EASILY" catch them LOL! Cell is flying along over the ocean, and thinks with their speed, he should've caught up to them by now. He hasn't seen a trace of them, but they have to be hiding somewhere on one of these islands. Your points are flawed heavily son.:up:

Yes, to send them through time (which has nothing to do with their reaction times, and which Wally has proved on several occasions he can do under his own power). And you're missing the point. It doesn't matter if they're running, the fact is that they were thinking and percieving things at such a speed. With that kind of reaction time, Goku's attacks would appear frozen to them and they could easily dodge and kill him. Do you understand how impressive it is to have an entire conversation within the scope of attoseconds?

Still, you are not getting it! using an AUGMENTED Flash to support your theory. Flash can NOT do any of that without help. Goku can telepathically talk, think and sense people lightyears away even in other dimensions! Goku's reflexes and perceptions are greater than the Flash's.


Okay, so let's see what we have here: a video of three clips combined.

Two of which are non - canon anime filler scenes, and the third is just standard projectile dodging. The most important thing being, of course, that none of these have any type of numbers attached or have anything calcable.

You really have trouble with the word 'quantify', don't you?

Why don't you tell me exactly how fast Frieza's beams were going (as in, a numerical value of speed).

Which is teleportation, not speed, and looking at the clip, it's from a non - canon movie, where the movie writers apparently didn't do their research and the power wasn't even portrayed correctly. :whatever:

I ask you again: Provide a QUANTIFIABLE example of Goku's speed that can compare to Flash's attosecond reaction times.


LOL is this the superhero tv series forum? Is this the forum for the ANIMATED version of Dragonball? Why yes it is so you asked for a feat from DBZ (which is the show, the manga never had a Z in the title) and you got one. You bring up Quantifying?:rolleyes: You can't quantify infinite speed or intangibility! Who cares if in NO way you can't use numbers to explain it thats completely irrelevent, you asked for a damn feat and you got one. The only retard around here is you:up:

[Mistress Gluon]

Actually, the movies aren't even canon in the animation front either.

[Ultra-Herald9]

The Phenomenol doesn't even seem to know what he's talking about! Flash doesn't need help to time travel or even to travel to different dimensions for that matter! The cosmic treadmill is only used for prescise and accurate time travel but the Flashes can easily do this on their own! I can't believe that you actually think that Goku is faster then Flash when Flash has done so many isane speed feats that put him so far above Goku that this argument shouldn't even be happening!

You always call us biased and for what? Because we refuse to think that Goku is the almighty and most powerful being of all time??? I mean for pete's sake you guy's are freaking saying that Goku is faster than the Flash!!!!!!!Dbz fans overestime their characters powers so much that some people actually believe that Goku can literally do anything! Why can't you just except that Goku CAN lose to some characters and just leave it at that! Is Goku really so important to you?????

[SSJ4_Mikael]

Pre-RoTaS SSJ Gotenkusu ~ [First] speed if light feature ever i DBZ
Post-RoTaS SSJ3 Gotenkusu > SSJ3 Gokou ~ Pre-RoTaS Gotenkusu > Ma-jin Boo

So Gokou is about as fast as light in SSJ3 state, not faster, but as fast as.
Flash have been counted to be able to run 9,200 millions (or it was 92,000 millions, I can't really recall) times the speed of light.
He saved everyone in Paris and moved each citizen 75 miles from Paris on 0,0001 micro second.

[CBG]

He saved everyone in Paris and moved each citizen 75 miles from Paris on 0,0001 micro second.

I've seen the page. However, I remember that it said at a speed shy of the speed of light. It's been awhile since I saw that one.

Although the calculations would yield multiples of lightspeed, it's contradicted by the text which stated the speed. Perhaps the writer's mistake -- maybe he/she wanted to write .0001 seconds instead of micro seconds.

However, I could be mistaken in memory.

[SSJ4_Mikael]

Yes, but now he did write micro seconds which made Flash a thousand times faster.

[CBG]

Then we have a contradiction here. The text says shy of the speed of light, while calculations yields multiples of the speed of light.

[SSJ4_Mikael]

Obviously: Actions > statements
The action here was: Saving everyone in Paris, calculated speed: 92 billion times the speed of light.
While a statement say: Shy of the speed of light.

[CBG]

Curious, what would the calculations yield if the time was in seconds, instead of micro seconds?

[Keollyn]

Pre-RoTaS SSJ Gotenkusu ~ [First] speed if light feature ever i DBZ
Post-RoTaS SSJ3 Gotenkusu > SSJ3 Gokou ~ Pre-RoTaS Gotenkusu > Ma-jin Boo

So Gokou is about as fast as light in SSJ3 state, not faster, but as fast as.
Flash have been counted to be able to run 9,200 millions (or it was 92,000 millions, I can't really recall) times the speed of light.
He saved everyone in Paris and moved each citizen 75 miles from Paris on 0,0001 micro second.

Gotenks didn't go SoL neither from the manga or the anime showing.

Manga: Five laps present with no time implied.

Anime: Nine laps in seven seconds. Five seconds if you're being generous.

[SSJ4_Mikael]

Gotenks didn't go SoL neither from the manga or the anime showing.

Manga: Five laps present with no time implied.

Anime: Nine laps in seven seconds. Five seconds if you're being generous.
The manga orbits are actually a bit from the earth itself, so it's safe to say that he's about as fast as light, besides Toriyama stated that that the DB character's were at the speed of light at some points.

But if we go by anime (non canon) than Gokou is millions or billions times faster than light, in the end of DBZ.
(counting powerlevel-wise)

[SSJ4_Mikael]

<2x post>

[CBG]

The manga orbits are actually a bit from the earth itself, so it's safe to say that he's about as fast as light, besides Toriyama stated that that the DB character's were at the speed of light at some points.

Yes, I seen the interview. However, I doubt the existence of "Super Otaku Magazine". 300 issues, and its history is unable to be tracked down on the Internet?

[Keollyn]

The manga orbits are actually a bit from the earth itself, so it's safe to say that he's about as fast as light, besides Toriyama stated that that the DB character's were at the speed of light at some points.

But if we go by anime (non canon) than Gokou is millions or billions times faster than light, in the end of DBZ.
(counting powerlevel-wise)

It doesn't matter how far away from the Earth he actually was... The time in which he has done those laps were never indicated. All we know is that he's really fast. At the speed of light... well that's the part that's debatable.

Besides, the scene afterward kinds of contradicts any belief that it was at the speed of light. You know, the whole thing with Piccolo saying they have under a minute in their fusion and when they arrived at Boo's house, the fusion was over.

[Phenomenal]

The Phenomenol doesn't even seem to know what he's talking about! Flash doesn't need help to time travel or even to travel to different dimensions for that matter! The cosmic treadmill is only used for prescise and accurate time travel but the Flashes can easily do this on their own! I can't believe that you actually think that Goku is faster then Flash when Flash has done so many isane speed feats that put him so far above Goku that this argument shouldn't even be happening!

You seem to be uninformed. I already know that the Flash's can Time Travel by themselves, you do understand it takes Flash a while to CHARGE up his speed to even do that:o. The Fact is The Flash can't reach lightspeed or even Time Travel in a blink of an eye when it takes him time to reach those speeds. Goku's speed is vanish and reappear in an instant! Flash can't cope with that combat speed.

You always call us biased and for what? Because we refuse to think that Goku is the almighty and most powerful being of all time??? I mean for pete's sake you guy's are freaking saying that Goku is faster than the Flash!!!!!!!Dbz fans overestime their characters powers so much that some people actually believe that Goku can literally do anything! Why can't you just except that Goku CAN lose to some characters and just leave it at that! Is Goku really so important to you?????

I never called you or anyone else bias only Endless Mike. If you knew him then you would know why I call him that. I said that Goku's COMBAT speed is greater than the Flash's speed not as far as Distance and running Goes. I can name thousands of characters who can beat Goku but Flash ain't one of them. :woot:

[SouLeSS]

Actually, in the DBZ universe, they don't 'teleport', they just move at a very high speed, making it look as if they 'teleport'.

[Phenomenal]

Actually, in the DBZ universe, they don't 'teleport', they just move at a very high speed, making it look as if they 'teleport'.

Care to explain how a Super Saiya-jin who has a power level 0f 150 million can not see or SENSE Freeza who is weaker with a power level of 120 million:confused: .

Note that this battle was a FIVE minute battle at Super Speed!

Goku: " He Vanished"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q07qNOiwTWk

[Jplaya2023]

Care to explain how a Super Saiya-jin who has a power level 0f 150 million can not see or SENSE Freeza who is weaker with a power level of 120 million:confused: .

Note that this battle was a FIVE minute battle at Super Speed!

Goku: " He Vanished"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q07qNOiwTWk



goku was at 15 million frieza was at 12 million

[Ultra-Herald9]

Care to explain how a Super Saiya-jin who has a power level 0f 150 million can not see or SENSE Freeza who is weaker with a power level of 120 million:confused: .

Note that this battle was a FIVE minute battle at Super Speed!

Goku: " He Vanished"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q07qNOiwTWk


But everyone knows Freeza didn't teleport. Freeza can't teleport! He just moved faster than Goku could sense.

[Ultra-Herald9]

Actually it didn't even seem like Goku was trying to sense! He was just suprised that Freeza moved faster than he could see.....

[Phenomenal]

goku was at 15 million frieza was at 12 million

Nah, Jplaya the OFFICIAL power levels from Toriyama and the Daizenshuu's state otherwise.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v250/socar15/daiz_pls.jpg


But everyone knows Freeza didn't teleport. Freeza can't teleport! He just moved faster than Goku could sense.


That does not make any sense really. A WEAKER Freeza "Vanished" out of thin air and a more powerful Goku could NOT see or SENSE him, and this is a guy who can sense lightyears and dimensions away?

[Ultra-Herald9]

ARE you actually trying to argue now that Freeza is capable of teleportation!? Like I said before I don't think that Goku was even trying to sense Frieza! He just seemed to be looking for him. If Goku was trying to sense I imagine that he would calm down and focus instead of turning his head around to see.

[Phenomenal]

ARE you actually trying to argue now that Freeza is capable of teleportation!? Like I said before I don't think that Goku was even trying to sense Frieza! He just seemed to be looking for him. If Goku was trying to sense I imagine that he would calm down and focus instead of turning his head around to see.

I am not saying it is teleportation at all! It is just Super Speed that happens in a blink of an eye!

Sensing is automatically used in battle, Goku noted this at the beginning of hisd battle with Freeza and comments how he can sense where Freeza is and Freeza can't. They don't need concentration to sense movement at all.

[Jplaya2023]

Nah, Jplaya the OFFICIAL power levels from Toriyama and the Daizenshuu's state otherwise.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v250/socar15/daiz_pls.jpg



That does not make any sense really. A WEAKER Freeza "Vanished" out of thin air and a more powerful Goku could NOT see or SENSE him, and this is a guy who can sense lightyears and dimensions away?

I cant read that type of japanese. But if thats true than going SSJ increases your power by a factor of over X25 then since base goku had a PL of 300,000 when leaving out the regeneration chamber

[CBG]

Concerning the Daizhenshuu, it's authenticity has been debated over.

[Phenomenal]

I cant read that type of japanese. But if thats true than going SSJ increases your power by a factor of over X25 then since base goku had a PL of 300,000 when leaving out the regeneration chamber

Actually Goku was at 3 million when he came out of the regeneration chamber!

http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/2931/yehbiatch7zt.jpg

[Jplaya2023]

Actually Goku was at 3 million when he came out of the regeneration chamber!

http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/2931/yehbiatch7zt.jpg


what other types of information is included in the Daizhenshuu

[Phenomenal]

Everything you need to know about Dragonball and Dragonball Z!

[Mistress Gluon]

Care to explain how a Super Saiya-jin who has a power level 0f 150 million can not see or SENSE Freeza who is weaker with a power level of 120 million:confused: .

Note that this battle was a FIVE minute battle at Super Speed!

Goku: " He Vanished"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q07qNOiwTWk

We'll put it into perspective. The average human can only understand and comprehend 30% of their surroundings in a car while travelling at 40 miles per hour. I think it's safe to say that if someone was moving so incredibly fast, that a person would have a hard time trying to track it. He doesn't have cosmic awareness or something, just the ability to sense other energy levels.

[Mistress Gluon]

You seem to be uninformed. I already know that the Flash's can Time Travel by themselves, you do understand it takes Flash a while to CHARGE up his speed to even do that:o. The Fact is The Flash can't reach lightspeed or even Time Travel in a blink of an eye when it takes him time to reach those speeds. Goku's speed is vanish and reappear in an instant! Flash can't cope with that combat speed.



I never called you or anyone else bias only Endless Mike. If you knew him then you would know why I call him that. I said that Goku's COMBAT speed is greater than the Flash's speed not as far as Distance and running Goes. I can name thousands of characters who can beat Goku but Flash ain't one of them. :woot:

Actually, given the Flash's abilities, the only reason he "charges" to that seems to be for safety reasons of others than himself. He can just go ahead and simply rush into time or something, but that ends up with either he ending up somewhere he doesn't know where or when or which dimension he may be in, or getting sucked into the Speed Force. And like I said, combat speed is pretty similar to regular speed. It's not another force altogether. And since the Flash's reactions match his speed, Goku couldn't really put the drop on someone who's reactions are sub luminal as well.

[War Lord]

Care to explain how a Super Saiya-jin who has a power level 0f 150 million can not see or SENSE Freeza who is weaker with a power level of 120 million:confused: .

Note that this battle was a FIVE minute battle at Super Speed!

Goku: " He Vanished"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q07qNOiwTWk

Just because a guy is going to have a higher level, doesn't automatically translate to being faster than a guy with a lower level.

[Endless Mike]

Wrong! Goku has dodge Soalr Flare at point blank range

What?

When?

, and even grabbed Roshi's sunglasses without anyone noticing as a CHILD in Dragonball and handles Multiple after Images like a pro. Flash got motion sickness from all of the above.

No, Flash got blinded and disoriented by a strobing light attack combined with some weird frequency trick. No such thing has ever been seen in DBZ, stop making up crap.


How is Goku going anywhere with Barely no damn Ki at all? Or did your ignorant bias allow you to forget.

He had plenty left to fly, fight, and attack with, he wasn't out of the fight until Vegeta was stepping on him and crushing him later.


This whole paragraph is filled with holes.

Much like your head.

Babidi's first order for Buu is to kill Gohan and Kaioushin, and so Gohan grabs Kaioushin-sama and flies off, saying he's confident in his own speed. But, Buu, then zooms off in an instant, appearing ahead of them. Babidi smacks Gohan away into a random mountain thing. Yeah Gohan is going to travel across the world while Buu is in front of him.

If he was as fast as you say he is, he would have been able to do so before Buu got in front of him, since Buu gave him a couple - second head start. You do realize that light can travel around the earth 7 times in a second, right?


Also for your weak Cell and Android theory LOL! They did not fly anywhere because Android 16 told 18 to hide in one of the islands because if they tried to fly away Cell would "EASILY" catch them LOL! Cell is flying along over the ocean, and thinks with their speed, he should've caught up to them by now. He hasn't seen a trace of them, but they have to be hiding somewhere on one of these islands. Your points are flawed heavily son.

You've done a great job quoting what was said, but you're ignoring the logical problems. They were trying to escape, if they could really move that fast, they could have gone all the way to the other side of the earth or even into space in only a few seconds. Why would they only travel a short amount of distance in the same general area around a few islands? Your point about Cell saying he should have easily caught up to them just further reinforces my argument, Cell wasn't moving that fast either, he was still in the same general area as well. If the androids or Cell were really anywhere near lightspeed, he would be chasing and looking for them all over the world. Instead he figures they have to be on one of the nearby islands, since they're not fast enough to get any farther.



Still, you are not getting it! using an AUGMENTED Flash to support your theory. Flash can NOT do any of that without help. Goku can telepathically talk, think and sense people lightyears away even in other dimensions! Goku's reflexes and perceptions are greater than the Flash's.

Flash was not augmented, they merely used the treadmill to set a course to their destination in the timestream, it didn't increase their reaction speeds or anything else. You obviously understand nothing about the Flash's powerset if you think that.

And how does communicating with people telepathically in other planets and dimensions (and I should point out that those people were the Kaios and Kaioshins, who are the experts at this kind of stuff and can communicate with anyone like that, meaning they were pulling most of the psychic weight in these exchanges) indicate reaction speed? Honestly.


LOL is this the superhero tv series forum? Is this the forum for the ANIMATED version of Dragonball? Why yes it is so you asked for a feat from DBZ (which is the show, the manga never had a Z in the title) and you got one.

You know what I mean, wanker. The anime is non - canon and cannot be used. However, if you want to use it, then Frieza's beams in that scene were moving slower than normal bullets.:cwink:

Also Goku and Picollo combined using ki blasts were struggling to lift up a school bus.:D


You bring up Quantifying?


Something you like to avoid.

You can't quantify infinite speed

IT is teleportation, not speed, and it's limited by Goku's own reaction time, which is what I'm asking you to quantify, and what you're avoiding.

or intangibility!

Which Goku does not have. Idiot.


Who cares if in NO way you can't use numbers to explain it thats completely irrelevent, you asked for a damn feat and you got one. The only retard around here is you

What I got was a bunch of non - canon, unquantifiable **** with no meaning.

Now provide something quantifiable or STFU.

[Endless Mike]

The manga orbits are actually a bit from the earth itself, so it's safe to say that he's about as fast as light, besides Toriyama stated that that the DB character's were at the speed of light at some points.

But if we go by anime (non canon) than Gokou is millions or billions times faster than light, in the end of DBZ.
(counting powerlevel-wise)

No, because power levels are not a direct or linear scale (farmer with a power level of 5 should have been able to destroy 1/28th of the moon).

And Gotenks had 30 minutes to make that trip, in the manga when he took off for Buu's house, Picollo said he had 1 minute left in the fusion, and the fusion wore off as soon as he arrived, which means he took a whole minute to reach another point on earth. Even if it was completely on the opposite side of earth, that's still way slower than lightspeed.

[Phenomenal]

What? When?

No, Flash got blinded and disoriented by a strobing light attack combined with some weird frequency trick. No such thing has ever been seen in DBZ, stop making up crap.


Volume 11 chapter 130! Goku dodged Solar Flare in order to grab Roshi's Sunglasses at point blank range. Flash did NOT get blinded, you are lying, he simply states "messing with his head."

He had plenty left to fly, fight, and attack with, he wasn't out of the fight until Vegeta was stepping on him and crushing him later.

Damn, go wacth it again Goku's body was damaged by Kaioken he is no where near his original form.


If he was as fast as you say he is, he would have been able to do so before Buu got in front of him, since Buu gave him a couple - second head start. You do realize that light can travel around the earth 7 times in a second, right?

Are you a moron? Their's no other reason to believe that he would outrace a being much more powerful than himself. Let alone the way Buu used Super Speed to instantly teleport in front of him like that.:rolleyes:


You've done a great job quoting what was said, but you're ignoring the logical problems. They were trying to escape, if they could really move that fast, they could have gone all the way to the other side of the earth or even into space in only a few seconds. Why would they only travel a short amount of distance in the same general area around a few islands? Your point about Cell saying he should have easily caught up to them just further reinforces my argument, Cell wasn't moving that fast either, he was still in the same general area as well. If the androids or Cell were really anywhere near lightspeed, he would be chasing and looking for them all over the world. Instead he figures they have to be on one of the nearby islands, since they're not fast enough to get any farther.


No, you are missing the point. The androids didn't fly anywhere but to a near by island. It would have made no difference if they flew to the other side of the world or to the near by liquor store Cell would catch them in an instant. Instead they tried to trick him and hide nearby instead.


Flash was not augmented, they merely used the treadmill to set a course to their destination in the timestream, it didn't increase their reaction speeds or anything else. You obviously understand nothing about the Flash's powerset if you think that.

And how does communicating with people telepathically in other planets and dimensions (and I should point out that those people were the Kaios and Kaioshins, who are the experts at this kind of stuff and can communicate with anyone like that, meaning they were pulling most of the psychic weight in these exchanges) indicate reaction speed? Honestly.


I meant that running in time show's nothing towards Flash's reactions. You have yet to post anything showing his reactions, yet I post him getting tagged by slow ass Mongul.:o

Sensing abilities, it has to do with their detection abilities. DB characters can sense people dimensions away long before the time it would take the light to reach them from that place. So, if an attack comes at them, they can detect it en route to them and have a chance to dodge it. Which heightens reflexes drastically.:up:


You know what I mean, wanker. The anime is non - canon and cannot be used. However, if you want to use it, then Frieza's beams in that scene were moving slower than normal bullets.:cwink:

Also Goku and Picollo combined using ki blasts were struggling to lift up a school bus.:DSomething you like to avoid. IT is teleportation, not speed, and it's limited by Goku's own reaction time, which is what I'm asking you to quantify, and what you're avoiding.Which Goku does not have. Idiot.



What I got was a bunch of non - canon, unquantifiable **** with no meaning.

Now provide something quantifiable or STFU.


First of all Shunkan Idou = "Instantaneous Movement" it is speed fool not teleportation. LOL is this the superhero tv series forum? Is this the forum for the ANIMATED version of Dragonball? Why yes it is so Deal with the feats or STFU!:o

[Endless Mike]

Volume 11 chapter 130! Goku dodged Solar Flare in order to grab Roshi's Sunglasses at point blank range. Flash did NOT get blinded, you are lying, he simply states "messing with his head."

1. I'd like to see a scan.

2. How come the solar flare was always effective after that, even on Cell and Buu saga - level characters?

3. Do you know the definition of the word 'strobe'?


Damn, go wacth it again Goku's body was damaged by Kaioken he is no where near his original form.

He was hardly so far out of it that his speed was decreased by 99.999999999999999999999%:whatever:

Are you a moron? Their's no other reason to believe that he would outrace a being much more powerful than himself. Let alone the way Buu used Super Speed to instantly teleport in front of him like that.

Pay attention for once. Buu gave him a head start and didn't chase after him until he had already been flying for a few seconds already. At the speeds you're suggesting, he could have gone all the way to the other side of the earth by then.

No, you are missing the point. The androids didn't fly anywhere but to a near by island. It would have made no difference if they flew to the other side of the world or to the near by liquor store Cell would catch them in an instant. Instead they tried to trick him and hide nearby instead.

Except that contradicts what you just said in your last post, that Cell said 'with their speed he would have caught up with them by now' and he was still in the same general area. Besides, it took them several minutes to even get to that island and hide in the first place.

I meant that running in time show's nothing towards Flash's reactions. You have yet to post anything showing his reactions, yet I post him getting tagged by slow ass Mongul.

No, I showed them having a conversation, thinking, and percieving things at attosecond intervals. That's the definition of reaction time, you don't have to be punching someone to be demonstrating fast reaction time. Should I mention when Impulse spent a relative 3 years reading every book in a library but in real time it only took a few minutes? This is reaction time beyond any DBZ character.

And Mongul is not slow, superspeed is one of his powers, you would know that if you knew anything about comics. Flash rarely goes all - out against opponents anyway, especially when he has to worry about hurting people. When he doesn't, like when he was racing in space with Krakkl, you get a glimpse of his true powers.


Sensing abilities, it has to do with their detection abilities. DB characters can sense people dimensions away long before the time it would take the light to reach them from that place. So, if an attack comes at them, they can detect it en route to them and have a chance to dodge it. Which heightens reflexes drastically.

It seems you're a little confused.

In DBZ, ki waves that can be sensed, and telepathic communications can travel faster than light. However, actual attacks, and signals of those attacks (sound, light, etc.) cannot travel faster than light. Besides, as has already been shown, DBZ characters have trouble tracking nearby ki sources if they are fast - moving. For someone like the Flash, who has only human - equivalent DBZ ki (which can't be easily sensed without concentrating first), and is moving too fast for Goku to possibly react to, then Goku is dead.

First of all Shunkan Idou = "Instantaneous Movement" it is speed fool not teleportation.

Of course it's teleportation. It's the exact definition of teleportation, that is, travelling from one place to another without crossing the distance in - between. It doesn't count as speed. Nightcrawler does the same thing, you think Nightcrawler can beat the Flash?


LOL is this the superhero tv series forum? Is this the forum for the ANIMATED version of Dragonball? Why yes it is so Deal with the feats or STFU!

Don't give me that ****, I don't have to argue non - canon feats, because they're non - canon! It doesn't matter what forum this is (the anime/manga forum, technically), that doesn't magically change the canon policy. You want me to start bringing up Flash from Kingdom Come or some other Elseworld or something?