Who in DC or Marvel would give Goku a good fight?

[Jplaya2023]

goku being undetected during his fight with krilian during dragonaball

http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/photo.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume11/Db11ch07/110607.gif

http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/photo.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume11/Db11ch07/110608.gif

Crowd unable to fathom the fight

[Jplaya2023]

http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/photo.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume11/Db11ch07/110609.gif

goku is only moving around in the ring and is so fast not even tien or roshi can keep up with his movements.

[Jplaya2023]

http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/photo.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume11/Db11ch07/110612.gif

crowd saying the fight sucks because they cant fathom whats happening

[Ultra-Herald9]

http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/photo.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume11/Db11ch07/110609.gif

goku is only moving around in the ring and is so fast not even tien or roshi can keep up with his movements.


So.... Dbz characters don't have really good supervision. And an object of Goku's size doesn't need to be that fast to become invisible.

[Jplaya2023]

http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/photo.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume11/Db11ch10/_res/res_111007.jpg

http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/photo.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume11/Db11ch10/_res/res_111008.jpg

http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/photo.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume11/Db11ch10/_res/res_111009.jpg

[Keollyn]

Resize images or link them....

[Jplaya2023]

Resize images or link them....

those are the sizes which images do u want a link 2?

[Jplaya2023]

goku could move his limbs so fast it appears he has 8 arms

http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/photo.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume11/Db11ch12/111210.gif

[Keollyn]

I'm talking about the one you posted. You could have done this instead

http://tinyurl.com/g6crq

[Jplaya2023]

I'm talking about the one you posted. You could have done this instead

http://tinyurl.com/g6crq


what is the purpose of this exactly? Waste to much time uploading and linking. I'd rather hotlink

[Phenomenal]

1. I'd like to see a scan.2. How come the solar flare was always effective after that, even on Cell and Buu saga - level characters?3. Do you know the definition of the word 'strobe'?


http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/5/29/41941/DB1.jpg http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/5/29/41941/DB2.jpg http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/5/29/41941/DB3.jpg http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/5/29/41941/DB4.jpg

Handles that better than the Flash!


He was hardly so far out of it that his speed was decreased by 99.999999999999999999999%:whatever:

Bwhahahahaha, pulled another random number out of your ass.

Pay attention for once. Buu gave him a head start and didn't chase after him until he had already been flying for a few seconds already. At the speeds you're suggesting, he could have gone all the way to the other side of the earth by then.

Prove it?

Except that contradicts what you just said in your last post, that Cell said 'with their speed he would have caught up with them by now' and he was still in the same general area. Besides, it took them several minutes to even get to that island and hide in the first place.

What you say is irrelevent,(especially your bogus "several minute" statement) Prove to me Cell was going his fastest?

No, I showed them having a conversation, thinking, and percieving things at attosecond intervals. That's the definition of reaction time, you don't have to be punching someone to be demonstrating fast reaction time. Should I mention when Impulse spent a relative 3 years reading every book in a library but in real time it only took a few minutes? This is reaction time beyond any DBZ character.

And Mongul is not slow, superspeed is one of his powers, you would know that if you knew anything about comics. Flash rarely goes all - out against opponents anyway, especially when he has to worry about hurting people. When he doesn't, like when he was racing in space with Krakkl, you get a glimpse of his true powers.


First of all having a conversation in that time means nothing in combat. If you can't react and move it does you no good. Also Impulse or the Flash reading books does not equate to combat reflexes I really doubt they have a Super villains section in the library. Hell I can post Trunks killing an entire fleet "INSTANTLY." which beats your little feat.:o

I have forgotten about more comics than you have ever read in your life. Mongul is slow he has no super speed. Also I remember you quoting Wikipedia about that part and you say you know comics.:down Flash racing Krakel was when he absorbed speed that is not a good feat at all.


It seems you're a little confused.

In DBZ, ki waves that can be sensed, and telepathic communications can travel faster than light. However, actual attacks, and signals of those attacks (sound, light, etc.) cannot travel faster than light. Besides, as has already been shown, DBZ characters have trouble tracking nearby ki sources if they are fast - moving. For someone like the Flash, who has only human - equivalent DBZ ki (which can't be easily sensed without concentrating first), and is moving too fast for Goku to possibly react to, then Goku is dead.


Bwhahahaha you actually try to make this opinion an actual fact. Utter Bullocks! Flash has ki he is alive isn't he? Yes, that means he has a spirit. Goku can sense his ass all over the universe if he wanted and easily sense his movements. His reflexes are greater than someone who gets grabbed by Gorilla a Grodd.:rolleyes:

Of course it's teleportation. It's the exact definition of teleportation, that is, travelling from one place to another without crossing the distance in - between. It doesn't count as speed. Nightcrawler does the same thing, you think Nightcrawler can beat the Flash?

Don't give me that ****, I don't have to argue non - canon feats, because they're non - canon! It doesn't matter what forum this is (the anime/manga forum, technically), that doesn't magically change the canon policy. You want me to start bringing up Flash from Kingdom Come or some other Elseworld or something?


your chatting garbage! Shunkan Idou is "INSTANTANEOUS MOVEMENT" transcends time and space unlike teleportation like Nightcrawler.

I don't give a rats ass what you say! I will bring up what the hell I please after all the garbage you said. The DBZ anime is CANON like I told you before you don't even know what CANON means, so how could you argue with what's canon and not.:up:

[Keollyn]

what is the purpose of this exactly? Waste to much time uploading and linking. I'd rather hotlink

That's what I'm talking about. Hotlink, but don't use the image code (Read: img)

I don't want to actually come to a page that stretches... it's rather annoying (and coincidentally, there's enough of that here already...)

[Jplaya2023]

gohan running away form fat buu

http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/photo.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume39/Db39ch03/390308.gif

http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/photo.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume39/Db39ch03/390309.gif

http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/photo.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume39/Db39ch03/390310.gif

http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/photo.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume39/Db39ch03/390311.gif

[Keollyn]

Thank you.

[Endless Mike]

*snip*
Handles that better than the Flash!
Ah, thank you. But that's because he knew about the trick in advance, and recognized Tien's posture with his arms next to his head so he had time to prepare before he got it off. Future DB and DBZ villains didn't know about it so it still worked on them, and Flash had no idea what was going on since he had never seen Zum's trick before (a very complicated blinding speedforce frequency attack thing).

Bwhahahahaha, pulled another random number out of your ass.
It's called exaggeration, to show the idiocy of your statement. Why don't you try actually addressing my argument?


Prove it?
Jplaya2023 (being helpful for once) just posted the scans. Look at them.

What you say is irrelevent
Why? Because you say it is?


(especially your bogus "several minute" statement)
They had time to fly for a while, search for an island, have a conversation, etc. If they were really as fast as you say they are, they could have scouted out every island in the local ocean and zipped around the earth dozens of times in that timeframe. Instead, they just spent this time flying over the same general area, having a conversation, spotting and island, and slowly going down to it. Compare this, for example, to the Silver Surfer, who was able to search the entire surface of the earth before Doctor Strange could finish a sentence.


Prove to me Cell was going his fastest?
I don't need to, because he was confident that he was moving too fast for the androids to escape, and you're claiming that they have this kind of speed too.

First of all having a conversation in that time means nothing in combat.
Of course it does. It proves they're able to think and percieve things that fast. That includes opponents and attacks, which can then easily be avoided. You are simply too narrow - minded on this issue.


If you can't react and move it does you no good.
Except they can, and they were doing so. They were moving and talking in that scan.


Also Impulse or the Flash reading books does not equate to combat reflexes I really doubt they have a Super villains section in the library.
You are so dense. The point is that they are able to react and move that fast so everything else in normal time is frozen in comparison, that means they can kill their enemies before their enemies even know what is happening or can even think.


Hell I can post Trunks killing an entire fleet "INSTANTLY." which beats your little feat.
Really, because I don't remember anyone in all of DBZ destroying anything that could be called a 'fleet' (unless you count the scene where Nappa destroyed those Navy battleships, which I think was filler). You do realize that Trunks killing Frieza happened in a long enough interval for Gohan and Krillin to comment on it, and them to actually talk to each other. That's nowhere near attoseconds. In fact, it's, at the very least, quadrillions of times slower.

I have forgotten about more comics than you have ever read in your life.
And apparently the part you remembered is about 0.000000001% of that.

Mongul is slow he has no super speed.
Except he does. It's part of his powerset. He tags fast characters all the time.


Also I remember you quoting Wikipedia about that part and you say you know comics. Flash racing Krakel was when he absorbed speed that is not a good feat at all.
Wrong, he was racing him completely on his own speed, he didn't absorb any speed until after the race was over and he tried to outrun the cosmic gambler. In fact, Krakkl was the one who was using extra speed given by all the members of his race on his home planet, and Flash was still keeping up with him. This must be more of what you forgot.


Bwhahahaha you actually try to make this opinion an actual fact. Utter Bullocks! Flash has ki he is alive isn't he? Yes, that means he has a spirit.
Did I ever deny that? You need to work on your reading comprehension.

Goku can sense his ass all over the universe if he wanted and easily sense his movements.
Except no. It's incredibly difficult to sense beings with such small ki, even if they are just standing in one place. Sensing the Flash would be all but impossible.

His reflexes are greater than someone who gets grabbed by Gorilla a Grodd.
Right, right, let's use an instance where Flash wasn't even paying attention to Grodd, and had his back turned to him, and was instead worrying about Nightwing, and didn't have his powers engaged, was in a populated area (and right next to Nightwing, who would be in serious trouble if Flash cut loose), and gets his leg grabbed by Grodd, but then easily slips out of it in the very next panel, and use that as an authoritative final word on his reflexes, ignoring every other feat and appearance he's ever had.

How about Flash blitzing these superspeed robots from the future?

http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flash118p087nb.jpg
http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flash118p185hc.jpg

How about him blitzing the Anti - Monitor, a cosmic being?

http://img294.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2150174sw.jpg

Even when he's being slowed down by an enemy, he can move his limbs fast enough to create a vortex that blows away a rain of acid.

http://img225.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flash206pyratep054iu.jpg

Flash fights himself.

http://img292.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2155198cv.jpg

Or vs. Zoom

http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2200page030xq.jpg
http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2200page047bn.jpg
http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2200page053xv.jpg
http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2200page116kj.jpg
http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2200page129id.jpg
http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2200page139wx.jpg
http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2200page147fb.jpg
http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2200page155be.jpg
http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2200page1617wide4ra.jpg
http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2200page187un.jpg
http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2200page199fw.jpg
http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2200page203fe.jpg
http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2200page215gf.jpg
http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2200page220iv.jpg
http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2200page235id.jpg
http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2200page247kn.jpg

This is the kind of fighting speed DBZ characters only dream of.

your chatting garbage! Shunkan Idou is "INSTANTANEOUS MOVEMENT" transcends time and space unlike teleportation like Nightcrawler.
tel·e·por·ta·tion (thttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/ebreve.giflhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/lprime.gifhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/schwa.gif-p�r-thttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/amacr.gifhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/prime.gifshhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/schwa.gifn, -phttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/omacr.gifr-)
n. A hypothetical method of transportation in which matter or information is dematerialized, usually instantaneously, at one point and recreated at another.

I'm not seeing any difference.

I don't give a rats ass what you say! I will bring up what the hell I please after all the garbage you said. The DBZ anime is CANON like I told you before you don't even know what CANON means, so how could you argue with what's canon and not.
Canon is what is decided to be official by the franchise owner and copyright holder. The manga is canon, the anime is not. Show me one official source that says the anime is canon (and I don't mean an interview where Toriyama says that he contributed one or two character designs to the anime)

Oh, and my challenge still stands:

Provide something quantifiable from Goku that compares to Flash's attosecond reaction times.

[Jplaya2023]

http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/photo.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume28/Db28ch07/db28pg099.GIF

[Jplaya2023]

mr popo teaching goku to move fast as lightning if he ever hoped of hitting him

http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/photo.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume14/Db14ch08/14115.gif

http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/photo.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume14/Db14ch08/14116.gif

Mr popo teaching goku the importance of seeing someone with your ki instead of your eyes

http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/photo.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume14/Db14ch08/14117.gif

[Phenomenal]

Ah, thank you. But that's because he knew about the trick in advance, and recognized Tien's posture with his arms next to his head so he had time to prepare before he got it off. Future DB and DBZ villains didn't know about it so it still worked on them, and Flash had no idea what was going on since he had never seen Zum's trick before (a very complicated blinding speedforce frequency attack thing).

Prepare? Hah! He saw Tien about to do the move and Goku's Super Speed dodged the attack in time to grab Roshi's sunglasses.:rolleyes:

They had time to fly for a while, search for an island, have a conversation, etc. If they were really as fast as you say they are, they could have scouted out every island in the local ocean and zipped around the earth dozens of times in that timeframe. Instead, they just spent this time flying over the same general area, having a conversation, spotting and island, and slowly going down to it. Compare this, for example, to the Silver Surfer, who was able to search the entire surface of the earth before Doctor Strange could finish a sentence.


I don't need to, because he was confident that he was moving too fast for the androids to escape, and you're claiming that they have this kind of speed too.


We all know that DBZ traveling speed is nowhere near their combat speed. That is very obvious when watching or reading the series so your points are n/a.

Of course it does. It proves they're able to think and percieve things that fast. That includes opponents and attacks, which can then easily be avoided. You are simply too narrow - minded on this issue.

Except they can, and they were doing so. They were moving and talking in that scan.You are so dense. The point is that they are able to react and move that fast so everything else in normal time is frozen in comparison, that means they can kill their enemies before their enemies even know what is happening or can even think.

Their was NO reactions involved in those scans to attacks or anything your just showing them think fast wow, Piccolo can telepathicaly communicate with anyone in other dimensions that is way faster than the Flash. your just talking out of your ass again.

How about Flash blitzing these superspeed robots from the future?

http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flash118p087nb.jpg
http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flash118p185hc.jpg

How about him blitzing the Anti - Monitor, a cosmic being?

http://img294.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2150174sw.jpg

Even when he's being slowed down by an enemy, he can move his limbs fast enough to create a vortex that blows away a rain of acid.

http://img225.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flash206pyratep054iu.jpg

Flash fights himself.

http://img292.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2155198cv.jpg

Or vs. Zoom

http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2200page030xq.jpg
http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2200page047bn.jpg
http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2200page053xv.jpg
http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2200page116kj.jpg
http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2200page129id.jpg
http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2200page139wx.jpg
http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2200page147fb.jpg
http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2200page155be.jpg
http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2200page1617wide4ra.jpg
http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2200page187un.jpg
http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2200page199fw.jpg
http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2200page203fe.jpg
http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2200page215gf.jpg
http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2200page220iv.jpg
http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2200page235id.jpg
http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2200page247kn.jpg

This is the kind of fighting speed DBZ characters only dream of.


Wow, I see nothing in those scans that any DB character has not done. once again you posted scans from the INTERNET that proves nothing, we already know the Flash can run fast.:rolleyes:


I'm not seeing any difference.Canon is what is decided to be official by the franchise owner and copyright holder. The manga is canon, the anime is not. Show me one official source that says the anime is canon (and I don't mean an interview where Toriyama says that he contributed one or two character designs to the anime)Oh, and my challenge still stands:
Provide something quantifiable from Goku that compares to Flash's attosecond reaction times.


Please, LOL! you post that irrelevent definition about teleportation when it has NOTHING to do with Toriyama's. The Author does what he wants period. The original name of the move is Shunkan Idou (Instantaneous Movement). That speaks for itself, really. Dragon Ball - Volume 28, Page 154 Goku: "You see, it's not to a place, but to a person ...all you have to do is feel their ki, and you instantly go to where they are..."

The Anime is canon and official! Otherwise Toriyama would have said it was not, like he said about the DBZ Movies and DBGT. Deal with the feats from the canon anime or GTFO!

[Jplaya2023]

http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/photo.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume15/Db15ch08/150809.GIF


goku fighting tien and everyone except piccolo being unable to fathom whats going on

http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/photo.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume15/Db15ch09/150902.GIF

[SSJ4_Mikael]

To be faster than the eye (24 pictures/second) is way slower than light.

[Endless Mike]

Great, you've reverted to that improper quoting style again. Just when you were doing so well.

Anyway, I might as well have at it.

Prepare? Hah! He saw Tien about to do the move and Goku's Super Speed dodged the attack in time to grab Roshi's sunglasses.

He didn't 'dodge' the attack, he recognized Tien's posture in advance and knew what the attack was, so he grabbed the glasses before Tien used it. Otherwise there would be no reason why more powerful characters Vegeta, Dodoria, Cell, Trunks, etc. couldn't 'dodge' the attack either, which they clearly couldn't.

We all know that DBZ traveling speed is nowhere near their combat speed. That is very obvious when watching or reading the series so your points are n/a.

Another dodge.

Let me explain this to you simply: If they really can move at the kind of speeds you're suggesting, there's no reason why their speed would magically not work in a non - combat situation (or, vice - versa, why a character's non - combat speed would magically not work in a combat situation). If they can move that fast to attack their opponent, they can also move that fast to travel. If, as you claim, they can move near lightspeed to fight but only a few hundred miles per hour (estimate) to travel, then that suggests only two possibilities:

1. They can only move their limbs that fast, not their bodies.

2. They can only move that fast for incredibly tiny intervals (nanoseconds).

1 can't be true because they are able to dodge and avoid each other's punches. 2, similarly, can't be true because they are able to 'disappear' long enough for people to notice and comment on it.

Therefore, if they have this kind of fighting speed you're suggesting, they must also be able to use it to travel. The canon clearly shows that this is not the case, and thus your premise if flawed. QED.


Their was NO reactions involved in those scans to attacks or anything your just showing them think fast wow, Piccolo can telepathicaly communicate with anyone in other dimensions that is way faster than the Flash. your just talking out of your ass again

"Way faster than the Flash?"

I'd like to see a calculation to back that up. IIRC, the ROSAT had time pass 365 times faster than normal (If that is what you're talking about). Compare that to attosecond reaction times, which are on the order of 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 times faster than normal.

Do you even know the definition of 'reaction'?

It's to percieve something and to respond to it. The Flashes percieved each other, percieved the timestream around them, percieved each other's words, and responded to all of that.

Let me explain it even further: Say you're Goku and I'm the Flash. We start 100 meters away from each other. I'll be generous and say you can think at lightspeed. You send a signal from your brain to your hand to prepare an attack. Your brain is about 1 meter away from your hand. Moving at lightspeed, that signal will take about 3.34 nanosecond to reach your hand. Meanwhile, I can run and have entire conversations in attoseconds. Using the least generous application of the quantification for me, and say it was 999 attoseconds, even per meter, it takes me 99,900 attoseconds, or 99.9 femtoseconds. In that time, the nerve impulse from your brain has only moved about 0.3 millimeters, or about the width of a human hair. Since I'm there, however, I touch you, and steal your speed, then the fight is over.

Get it now?


Wow, I see nothing in those scans that any DB character has not done. once again you posted scans from the INTERNET that proves nothing, we already know the Flash can run fast.

Then get your eyes checked. I showed him blitzing speedsters, smashing apart the armor of a cosmic being, and fighting around the entire world tons of times in less than a second. I honestly don't understand your argument. You claim Flash can run fast, but can't fight fast. Aside from the fact that I've provided tons of scans proving you wrong on that, and you just ignore them, how does that argument even make sense? Are you saying that if Flash is running at someone he suddenly loses the ability to see them, or to aim a punch? If he couldn't percieve and react as fast as he could move, he would be crashing into things all the time.

Please, LOL! you post that irrelevent definition about teleportation when it has NOTHING to do with Toriyama's.

Wait, so now you're saying that Akira Toriyama invented his own definition of teleportation, specifically to exclude Goku's IT, and not only does this definition exist and it was made by him for this purpose, but it should be used instead of the dictionary definition......

Are you high or something?

Author does what he wants period. The original name of the move is Shunkan Idou (Instantaneous Movement). That speaks for itself, really.Dragon Ball - Volume 28, Page 154 Goku: "You see, it's not to a place, but to a person ...all you have to do is feel their ki, and you instantly go to where they are..."

And this contradicts the definition of teleportation..... how?

It would only be speed if he actually physically crossed the distance in - between, which he does not.

The anime is canon and official! Otherwise Toriyama would have said it was not, like he said about the DBZ Movies and DBGT. Deal with the feats from the canon anime or GTFO!

So, in other words, guilty until proven innocent? Do you know how the burden of proof works?

I don't have to prove it's not canon. You have to prove it is canon.

BTW, I'm still waiting on that quantifiable feat.....

[CBG]

The anime is an adaption. The manga is the original source material, thus the highest form of canon.

[Endless Mike]

I should also mention that we've almost never seen the Flash go all - out (probably the only two times were in the cosmic race and against the Anti - Monitor). Considering his Infinite Mass Punch can impact with the mass of a White Dwarf Star, he could easily charge the earth with enough kinetic energy to shatter it to atoms. Obviously, he tries to avoid doing this. However, in a neutral battleground, with no innocents involved, against a powerful enemy, he wouldn't need to hold back.

[CBG]

Well, it would depend on Wally's character.

[Endless Mike]

If it was an abandoned planet with no innocents around, and he had to win to save Linda or to save the Earth (you know, standard bloodlust conditions) then he would have no problem using his full power.

[CBG]

It'd be for Linda, knowing Wally.

[Phenomenal]

He didn't 'dodge' the attack, he recognized Tien's posture in advance and knew what the attack was, so he grabbed the glasses before Tien used it. Otherwise there would be no reason why more powerful characters Vegeta, Dodoria, Cell, Trunks, etc. couldn't 'dodge' the attack either, which they clearly couldn't.

The panel shows Goku getting the glasses while Taiyoken is being done at point blank range. That is super speed reflexes, too bad Flash can't do that. Taiyoken was used alonng with the sun that is why later it could not be dodged.

Let me explain this to you simply: If they really can move at the kind of speeds you're suggesting, there's no reason why their speed would magically not work in a non - combat situation (or, vice - versa, why a character's non - combat speed would magically not work in a combat situation). If they can move that fast to attack their opponent, they can also move that fast to travel. If, as you claim, they can move near lightspeed to fight but only a few hundred miles per hour (estimate) to travel, then that suggests only two possibilities:1. They can only move their limbs that fast, not their bodies.2. They can only move that fast for incredibly tiny intervals (nanoseconds).1 can't be true because they are able to dodge and avoid each other's punches. 2, similarly, can't be true because they are able to 'disappear' long enough for people to notice and comment on it.Therefore, if they have this kind of fighting speed you're suggesting, they must also be able to use it to travel. The canon clearly shows that this is not the case, and thus your premise if flawed. QED.

Who gives a rats ass what YOU think. Toriyama is the Author and he decides how his characters speed is used. The anime/manga shows that Super Speed is always used in combat not traveling to the liquor store and back. You being a whiner can drone on how Toriyama is not a scientist or what not (LOL! like that is relevant) he is the creator he calls the shots period.:up:

"Way faster than the Flash?" I'd like to see a calculation to back that up. IIRC, the ROSAT had time pass 365 times faster than normal (If that is what you're talking about). Compare that to attosecond reaction times, which are on the order of 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 times faster than normal.Then get your eyes checked. I showed him blitzing speedsters, smashing apart the armor of a cosmic being, and fighting around the entire world tons of times in less than a second. I honestly don't understand your argument. You claim Flash can run fast, but can't fight fast. Aside from the fact that I've provided tons of scans proving you wrong on that, and you just ignore them, how does that argument even make sense? Are you saying that if Flash is running at someone he suddenly loses the ability to see them, or to aim a punch? If he couldn't percieve and react as fast as he could move, he would be crashing into things all the time.

Travel speed is determined by feats and that is what you posted scans of.:o I ask for agility, reflexes and speed-perception's in COMBAT not the Flash running around the world. You want to talk about thinking speeds? LOL Telepathicaly speaking to someone in other Dimensions is greater thinking speeds than the flash has ever done.

Wait, so now you're saying that Akira Toriyama invented his own definition of teleportation, specifically to exclude Goku's IT, and not only does this definition exist and it was made by him for this purpose, but it should be used instead of the dictionary definition......Are you high or something And this contradicts the definition of teleportation..... how? It would only be speed if he actually physically crossed the distance in - between, which he does not.

The fact that Shunkan Idou for Goku is used as Natural speed not teleportation. Vegetto also demonstrates this as well.

So, in other words, guilty until proven innocent? Do you know how the burden of proof works?I don't have to prove it's not canon. You have to prove it is canon.BTW, I'm still waiting on that quantifiable feat.....

Anime/Manga is Canon. Toriyama said that the movies concerning DBZ is what he considers "ANOTHER DIMENSION!" not the anime. LOL is this the superhero tv series forum? Is this the forum for the ANIMATED version of Dragonball? Why yes it is so you asked for a feat from DBZ (which is the show, the manga never had a Z in the title) and you got one. You bring up Quantifying?:rolleyes: You can't quantify infinite speed! Who cares if in NO way you can't use numbers to explain it, thats completely irrelevent, you asked for a damn feat and you got one. The only retard around here is you:up:

[CBG]

It's freaking late, so I'll address what I'll think that needs to be addressed most.

That is super speed reflexes, too bad Flash can't do that.

He can do it -- getting a pair of sunglasses a few feet away from him?

LOL Telepathicaly speaking to someone in other Dimensions is greater thinking speeds than the flash has ever done.


Flash can think super-fast -- he does have a turbo charge brain. He's able to outthink a super-computer at the very least -- he outthought Solaris, for crying out loud.

Anime/Manga is Canon

Anime is an adaption, the manga is the original source material, which all others stem from. Thus, the manga is the highest form of canon.

[Ultra-Herald9]

I really can't even understand how the phenomenol can't understand how hopeless it is to compare Goku to a serious Flash! Flash has so many moves that could kill Goku before he can even think. He could just vibrate his arm right through Goku's brain before he even realizes that the Flash has moved from the area that he standing in before!

[Endless Mike]

The panel shows Goku getting the glasses while Taiyoken is being done at point blank range. That is super speed reflexes, too bad Flash can't do that. Taiyoken was used alonng with the sun that is why later it could not be dodged.

It's a surefire sign that you don't know what you're talking about if you can't even remember the events of a scan that was shown just a few pages ago.

It never showed Goku getting the glasses, what it showed was Goku standing there, Tien using Taiyoken (at this point Goku had already left, he was nowhere to be seen in that panel), then Tien thinking Goku was blinded, and attacking him, but Goku dodging the punch and punching them, then showing that he had the glasses. He grabbed the glasses before Tien used the attack.

Who gives a rats ass what YOU think. Toriyama is the Author and he decides how his characters speed is used. The anime/manga shows that Super Speed is always used in combat not traveling to the liquor store and back. You being a whiner can drone on how Toriyama is not a scientist or what not (LOL! like that is relevant) he is the creator he calls the shots period.

So let me get this straight: You claim that they move at or near - lightspeed (something unsupported by the canon). When I show that this is not true, you say it is only true for fights. When I demonstrate why that is impossible, logically, you throw logic out the window and declare that Toriyama wrote it so that it supports your ridiculous interpretation, completely ignoring the possibility that I am suggesting: That is, they are simply not that fast. I might as well say that Bart Allen is an actual lightning rod, because he was called one by Wally, therefore it must be true because it was written by the writers.

Show me an official statement by Toriyama saying that they fight at or near - lightspeed but their speed somehow magically disappears when they are not in a fight, or else shut up.

Travel speed is determined by feats and that is what you posted scans of.

Wait.... since travel speed can be determined by feats, and I posted scans of feats, that means the scans I posted were travel speed?

You need a remedial logic course.

Going by that logic, since fruits can be apples, and I have a fruit, it must be an apple.:whatever:


I ask for agility, reflexes and speed-perception's in COMBAT not the Flash running around the world.

He was in combat with Zoom when he ran around the world. You think both can't happen at the same time? It seems your definition of 'reaction speed' and 'combat speed' is "anything exactly like a DBZ fight, nothing else counts".

You want to talk about thinking speeds? LOL Telepathicaly speaking to someone in other Dimensions is greater thinking speeds than the flash has ever done.

How, exactly? The only time a feat like that in DBZ has ever been shown to indicate reaction time was when Picollo communicated with Goten and Trunks in the ROSAT, because in their time runs 365 times faster. That hardly compares to attosecond reaction times (which apparently don't count, since according to you, since that particular example wasn't in a fight, their reaction, perception, motion, and thinking speeds will magically slow down by a dozen orders of magnitude:whatever:)

Besides, you want to talk about feats across the dimensions? Flash broke the Hypertime barrier, which was supposed to be impossible, in a universe where travel between other dimensions and universes happens regularly.


The fact that Shunkan Idou for Goku is used as Natural speed not teleportation. Vegetto also demonstrates this as well.

Except.... no such thing ever happened.

You do realize the movies are non - canon, right?

Anime/Manga is Canon.

The manga is, not the anime.

Toriyama said that the movies concerning DBZ is what he considers "ANOTHER DIMENSION!" not the anime.

Burden of proof. Just because he didn't state it was not canon doesn't automatically mean it is, especially since it was never stated to be canon either.
LOL is this the superhero tv series forum? Is this the forum for the ANIMATED version of Dragonball? Why yes it is so you asked for a feat from DBZ (which is the show, the manga never had a Z in the title) and you got one. You bring up Quantifying?:rolleyes: You can't quantify infinite speed! Who cares if in NO way you can't use numbers to explain it, thats completely irrelevent, you asked for a damn feat and you got one. The only retard around here is you
You really think you can win a debate by just copy - and - pasting your previous posts? It doesn't matter what forum this is, we use the official canon policy, unless stated otherwise in the OP. Unless you can provide an official source that states the anime is canon, then it's not.

And I was not talking about IT, since it is teleportation, not speed, and irrelevant in this fight, since Goku's thought patterns are too slow to use it against someone like the Flash.

Quantify Goku's reaction speeds that compare to Flash's attosecond reaction times.

You do realize that the Flash just has to touch Goku, or even get near him, to steal his speed and the fight will be over, right?

[Phenomenal]

It never showed Goku getting the glasses, what it showed was Goku standing there, Tien using Taiyoken (at this point Goku had already left, he was nowhere to be seen in that panel), then Tien thinking Goku was blinded, and attacking him, but Goku dodging the punch and punching them, then showing that he had the glasses. He grabbed the glasses before Tien used the attack.

It does not show Goku moving after he see's Tien's pose. Master Roshi asks Goku "when did he take the glasses?" That is obvious he did it while Taiyoken was happening, otherwise Roshi would have seen Goku taking his glasses while Tien was in his Taiyoken pose.

So let me get this straight: You claim that they move at or near - lightspeed (something unsupported by the canon). When I show that this is not true, you say it is only true for fights. When I demonstrate why that is impossible, logically, you throw logic out the window and declare that Toriyama wrote it so that it supports your ridiculous interpretation, completely ignoring the possibility that I am suggesting: That is, they are simply not that fast. I might as well say that Bart Allen is an actual lightning rod, because he was called one by Wally, therefore it must be true because it was written by the writers.Show me an official statement by Toriyama saying that they fight at or near - lightspeed but their speed somehow magically disappears when they are not in a fight, or else shut up.

Show me in my post where I ever mention lightspeed:confused: I said their super speed is used in combat and this is shown many times in DBZ.


He was in combat with Zoom when he ran around the world. You think both can't happen at the same time? It seems your definition of 'reaction speed' and 'combat speed' is "anything exactly like a DBZ fight, nothing else counts".How, exactly? The only time a feat like that in DBZ has ever been shown to indicate reaction time was when Picollo communicated with Goten and Trunks in the ROSAT, because in their time runs 365 times faster. That hardly compares to attosecond reaction times (which apparently don't count, since according to you, since that particular example wasn't in a fight, their reaction, perception, motion, and thinking speeds will magically slow down by a dozen orders of magnitude:whatever:)Besides, you want to talk about feats across the dimensions? Flash broke the Hypertime barrier, which was supposed to be impossible, in a universe where travel between other dimensions and universes happens regularly.

Running around the world, chasing and tripping each other is not combat. Do you actually know what going at each other and exchanging blows is?:rolleyes: LOL! breaking the hypertime barrier has nothing to do with Goku or this fight nor does Flash's thinking speed cause it sure does not help him against Mongul or Doomsday:o Flash is not going to have anytime to run half across the globe and charge up to punch Goku like he did Gorilla Grodd. Like I said Flash's strength is in building up momentum and running not in combat.


Except.... no such thing ever happened.

http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/5/29/41941/Goku1[/B] (http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/5/29/41941/Goku1)http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/5/29/41941/Goku2[/B] (http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/5/29/41941/Goku2)http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/5/29/41941/Goku3.gif[/B] (http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/5/29/41941/Goku3.gif)http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/5/29/41941/Goku4.gif[/B] (http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/5/29/41941/Goku4.gif)http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/5/29/41941/Goku5.gif[/B] (http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/5/29/41941/Goku5.gif)http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/5/29/41941/Goku6.gif[/B] (http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/5/29/41941/Goku6.gif)http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/5/29/41941/Goku7

I am not going to tell you and your BIAS again, Goku can use Shunkan Idou at WILL! When he puts two fingers to his head he has to concentrate because of lack of energy or when he does not know where he is going. Goku can use the Shunkan Idou at will.

Burden of proof. Just because he didn't state it was not canon doesn't automatically mean it is, especially since it was never stated to be canon either.You do realize that the Flash just has to touch Goku, or even get near him, to steal his speed and the fight will be over, right?

Sorry, The anime is canon and Toriyama said that only the movies are "considered in another dimension!" If the anime was not canon he would have said that about the anime like many other artists do.:o Flash won't have time to get near Goku or even touch him, Let alone see him.

[Endless Mike]

Way to stretch the page.

I'm tired, I'll respond to your post tomorrow.

[Ultra-Herald9]

Running around the world, chasing and tripping each other is not combat. Do you actually know what going at each other and exchanging blows is?:rolleyes: LOL! breaking the hypertime barrier has nothing to do with Goku or this fight nor does Flash's thinking speed cause it sure does not help him against Mongul or Doomsday:o Flash is not going to have anytime to run half across the globe and charge up to punch Goku like he did Gorilla Grodd. Like I said Flash's strength is in building up momentum and running not in combat.



I'm sorry dude but did you even read those scans? Even I was suprised and I thought i've seen everything that the Flash could do. They were doing WAY more then chasing and tripping! They were fighting at speeds that DBZ characters can't even comprehend! Did you see the part were Wally said that all that fighting they did happened in less than a second!?

[Endless Mike]

Forget it, he'll never listen, his fanboy blinders are legendary.

[Endless Mike]

Okay, back again, a little earlier than I thought.

Also, you're still quoting improperly. Cut it out, it makes responding to your posts more of an annoying chore.


It does not show Goku moving after he see's Tien's pose. Master Roshi asks Goku "when did he take the glasses?" That is obvious he did it while Taiyoken was happening, otherwise Roshi would have seen Goku taking his glasses while Tien was in his Taiyoken pose.

Or Goku was faster than Roshi and Roshi wasn't paying attention.

You tend to miss the obvious answer, whether this is inentional or not, I'm unsure.

Show me in my post where I ever mention lightspeed I said their super speed is used in combat and this is shown many times in DBZ.

Way to evade my point, you'd make a great politician. I'll reiterate for you: There is no canon evidence that they can move at speeds in combat that would baffle the Flash, especially considering that their measurable speed (in the examples I showed) was hardly impressive. Yet you claim that despite this, their speed somehow magically increases a billionfold when they are fighting, and then claim that it's true because Toriyama said so, despite the fact you don't have a quote or any canon evidence to support this. Besides, you basically just conceded the debate, since if they're moving slower than lightspeed, they'll not be able to evade an all - out Wally.

Running around the world, chasing and tripping each other is not combat. Do you actually know what going at each other and exchanging blows is?

They were exchanging blows. All over the world dozens of times. In under a second. They were dodging, maneuvering, attacking, retreating, a whole bunch of stuff. Compare this to DBZ fights, which always start and end in the same general area and take minutes to hours. Just because characters don't use the exact same style of fighting as DBZ characters and the art for their fights isn't drawn the exact same way doesn't mean it's not a fight!

All of your arguments are based on art style; how the fight looks. You don't have any actual, quantifiable feats. A person could claim the average Naruto ninja is faster than Spider-man, because their fights look faster, with the shunshin no jutsu and disappearing stuff, yet if you compare actual feats, Spidey runs rings around them.

LOL! breaking the hypertime barrier has nothing to do with Goku or this fight nor does Flash's thinking speed cause it sure does not help him against Mongul or Doomsday

I could say the same thing for Goku talking to King Kai telepathically.

Flash is not going to have anytime to run half across the globe and charge up to punch Goku like he did Gorilla Grodd.

Right, because Goku is going to be able to see him departing, track which way he left, track him all around the world (despite the fact he has only normal human ki which is very difficult to sense without concentrating), and then what?

IT to his position?

By the time he thinks of doing so, Flash will already be 1000 miles away.

Chase him?

Like 18 escaped from Cell and Gohan ran from Buu, they sure were fast there.....:whatever:

Not to mention this will all be happening in a tiny fraction of a second, before Goku can even realize what's going on.

All of that is irrelevant, really, because all Flash needs to do to win is touch him or get near him to steal his speed.

Like I said Flash's strength is in building up momentum and running not in combat.

Despite all the amazing reaction time feats and battles I've posted, which you just ignore or dismiss ignorantly. Flash doesn't need to build up momentum to steal speed, or to vibrate through Goku's brain and make it explode.


*snip annoying, page - stretching crap*

Links aren't working, bucko.


I am not going to tell you and your BIAS again, Goku can use Shunkan Idou at WILL!

Like I said already: When did I deny this?


When he puts two fingers to his head he has to concentrate because of lack of energy or when he does not know where he is going. Goku can use the Shunkan Idou at will.

Might as well copy - and - paste my response from the other board:

So I ask again: What is your point?

By the time he thinks of using it, Flash will have already stolen his speed. His thoughts aren't fast enough to use it like you want him to.

This is even demonstrated in the canon. Most of the time it is used it's for transportation, not fighting. The only times it's ever used in a combat situation are either to escape a large attack, or that one time against Cell that relied on a trick where he had to power up first (and Cell, like all DBZ characters, was too much of a dumbass to attack him while he was doing so). When it is used in a fight, it's only used once or twice in the entirety of the fight. That's because his opponents would have attacked him or moved already when he had the chance to use it.

Sorry, The anime is canon

Prove it.

and Toriyama said that only the movies are "considered in another dimension!" If the anime was not canon he would have said that about the anime like many other artists do.

So it's automatically canon until he says it's not?

That's ass - backwards logic.

I suppose if I write a fanfic where it's revealed that Mr. Satan was right all along that all DBZ powers were just tricks, and Goku dies from a punch from a two - year - old, then that's canon too unless Toriyama says it's not?:whatever:

He has to say it is canon, not simply not say that it isn't.

Flash won't have time to get near Goku or even touch him, Let alone see him.

Considering Flash can react at attosecond intervals, and, by your own admission, Goku isn't even anywhere near lightspeed, then the opposite will be true.

Oh, and in case you think I forgot, I'm still waiting for a quantifiable figure on Goku's thinking/reaction speeds that compares to Flash's attosecond reaction times.

[Keollyn]

Man, and to think that I used to post just like Phenomenol (inside others quotes... not the other junk he does.. )

[Gotenks]

Way to stretch the page.

I'm tired, I'll respond to your post tomorrow.

Your posts stretch the page more then his does.

[Endless Mike]

Your posts stretch the page more then his does.

Vertically, which is okay.

Horizontally = bad.

[Gotenks]

I see.
I didn't even notice.

[gen1]

http://www.geocities.com/dbafterseries/
superman.
there is a shueisha vs d.c.
and shueisha vs marvel when the game is published,
we get to play as goku and superman.
the a.f. goku is both versions,the marvel version you have to get 0 losses
to get a.f. goku.
there are codes from game faqs the'll post them from vegeta gardian of destiny.

[Phenomenal]

http://www.geocities.com/dbafterseries/
superman.
there is a shueisha vs d.c.
and shueisha vs marvel when the game is published,
we get to play as goku and superman.
the a.f. goku is both versions,the marvel version you have to get 0 losses
to get a.f. goku.
there are codes from game faqs the'll post them from vegeta gardian of destiny.

That is not cool.:o

[Ultra-Herald9]

http://www.geocities.com/dbafterseries/
superman.
there is a shueisha vs d.c.
and shueisha vs marvel when the game is published,
we get to play as goku and superman.
the a.f. goku is both versions,the marvel version you have to get 0 losses
to get a.f. goku.
there are codes from game faqs the'll post them from vegeta gardian of destiny.


Uh........okay......I really don't know how to respond to this but all I know is that A.F. is a rumor that fan-artists love keep alive. But i've never heard of any DC/marvel games other than ones created by mugen battle stuffs.

[demauriam]

:wow: Goku is on a totally different level. U cant really compare him to thor or superman, they just dont function like he does. Anime vs Cmic character matchups doesnt really work that well. Well, thats my philosophy on the subject in any case. But if I had to pick someone, superman would be the prime challenger since he can press in excess of 20,000 Tons :whatever:

[Gotenks]

Here we go again.:o :csad: :whatever: :cmad: :huh:

[Sloth7d]

I know.... I know...

[Warhammer]

Lol. :D

[chichidark]

Do you guys realize this topic has been going on for 4 years?

[Jplaya2023]

Do you guys realize this topic has been going on for 4 years?

and will go on for another year thanks for bringing back classic sonnings on endless mike and his rogues

[Goldenage Batman]

Do you realize your name is chichidark?...

[Taiwarriorz21]

I believe that Superman would win hands down. Goku and Thor would be tough, but ultimately they couldn't beat Superman w/o using kryptonite which would make them kind of like a....a..."Villian".

[Sloth7d]

So people like Batman are villains?

[Goldenage Batman]

Nay I say thy...I'd still side with Goku...

[Taiwarriorz21]

I love Goku...Just dont know if he could beat the indestructible superman. Goku kicks major butt...I just dont know if he could handle superman. Superman is prolly faster than Goku too.

[CBG]

and will go on for another year thanks for bringing back classic sonnings on endless mike and his rogues

No need really. There are quite a number of characters that can defeat Goku, that's guaranteed.

[Goldenage Batman]

I love Goku...Just dont know if he could beat the indestructible superman. Goku kicks major butt...I just dont know if he could handle superman. Superman is prolly faster than Goku too.


Instant Transmission

[MSGohan]

Good lord :wow: is this thread still active?!?!?!

I don't get people like Endless Mike, why can't they just accept that there are people who don't agree with them?!?! What's the problem if someone believes that Goku can beat someone others don't think is ever possible?! If someone has a view of Goku that is WAY too exaggerated compared to others, then so what? This is fiction for crying out loud! I can overpower Goku all I want even if it contradicts the fiction it self, and explain the contradictions as comic relief or some other, even ridiculous, excuses, to conclude that Goku can beat anyone I want him to beat.
Because it should be quit obvious by now to anyone with an IQ > 60 to know that applying reasoning, logic, science and whatsoever in DBZ leads in many cases to contradictions. If the fiction was perfect and without "errors" I don't think anyone would've gotten the wrong idea of their power and over- or underestimate them.

[Goldenage Batman]

Hi MS:)...

[Sloth7d]

This thread should have died and stayed dead. I think the only one everyone is arguing with anymore is really Jplaya, though.

[MSGohan]

Yo Goldenage Batman, long time no see ^^

Jplaya is defending his beliefs, I would do the same ;)

[Goldenage Batman]

I know...and now I gotta leave:(....bye..

[Warhammer]

Wow, this thread has returned. :dry:

We already made lists and lists of people who can beat and obliterate Goku.
There are even lists from before I joined this site.

[Jplaya2023]

Wow, this thread has returned. :dry:

We already made lists and lists of people who can beat and obliterate Goku.
There are even lists from before I joined this site.

the list is wrong and non canon

[CBG]

the list is wrong and non canon

The list is right. You can whine all you like, but fact is fact.

[Jplaya2023]

The list is right. You can whine all you like, but fact is fact.

non canon and speculation. No one can beat in a fight

[CBG]

non canon and speculation.

Fact. You can keep posting, but it won't change fact.

No one can beat in a fight

Goku still loses in such a fight.

Plus, your definition of a fight is ridiculous. You have no idea how things go down.

[Cyrusbales]

Living tribunal would certainly give him a spanking!

[Jplaya2023]

Living tribunal would certainly give him a spanking!

he cant fight he cheat

[CBG]

he cant fight he cheat

In a fight, you use whatever capabilities, abilities, and/or powers you possess.

So now, LT doesn't cheat.

[Cyrusbales]

Yeah, I agree with CBG, people who limit a fight are just silly, that's like saying no-one can beat flash, but only races count as fights.

[Jplaya2023]

*sigh*

do i have to explain the canon again

racing != fighting

thinking someone out of existence != fighting

going back in time to win != fighting

punches, kicks, ki blast, heat vision, whatever = fighting

and for the record goku would smoke flash in a race

[CBG]

*sigh*

do i have to explain the canon again

You mean your opinions? Go ahead.

racing != fighting

thinking someone out of existence != fighting

going back in time to win != fighting

Actually, it does. It's a superpower, an ability, or a capability of the character, should they possess it as their norm. It's cheap, but no different.

punches, kicks, ki blast, heat vision, whatever = fighting

Yes, but also the above as well.

As I said, a REAL fight, the character uses whatever powers, abilities, or capabilities they possess.

and for the record goku would smoke flash in a race

For the record, Flash can react far faster than Goku. Before Goku can even think, Flash is already running.

[Jplaya2023]

your opinions?

"opinions" that are accepted as fact/canon by the majority of anime/comic heads out there. Nice try buddy

It's cheap

Exactly my point. You can block punches and kicks, and potentially block ki blast with goku's training regimine, but its impossible to block or even fight someone that can think you out of existence and go back in time and kill you. That isnt fighting. That's cheating


Yes, but also the above as well.


Negative

As I said, a REAL fight, the character uses whatever powers, abilities, or capabilities they possess.

only the ones listed since they are the very definition of a real fight


For the record, Flash can react far faster than Goku. Before Goku can even think, Flash is already running.

thats nice, while flash is running goku is there laughing

[MSGohan]

Lol this is starting from scratch again.
Besides what Jplaya means is that it's stupid to compare characters like the way you do it.
You can't really compare a situation like, if I shoot Bruce Lee in the head with a shotgun while his sleeping, as a battle. This is just too stupid.

The rest is oppinions, DBZ "haters" find lame excuses to ridiculousy downpower the fighters, and DBZ (extreme, in your definitions) fans would overpower the fighters, by other but just a valid excuses.

[CBG]

"opinions" that are accepted as fact/canon by the majority of anime/comic heads out there. Nice try buddy

You're imagination doesn't count as an audience.

From my experiences here on these boards, everyone ignores your opinions.

The only time the accept the existence of it (NOT THE VALIDITY) is only when they argue against it, and rightfully so.

Try again.

Exactly my point.

So? Luck of the draw.

You can block punches and kicks, and potentially block ki blast with goku's training regimine,

NOT EVERY FICTIONAL CHARACTER IS A SAIYAN.

but its impossible to block or even fight someone that can think you out of existence and go back in time and kill you. That isnt fighting. That's cheating

No, it's not. It's the power, ability, or capability of the character. It's no different than Goku's powers or Batman's abilities in concept.

For example, Mad Jim Jaspers vs. Goku. Mad Jim Jaspers has to conform to your definition of a fight, which means, fight like Goku, no reality warping. Of course, James loses.

But why for character A, and not B?

Similarly, we can say Goku has to fight like Mad Jim Jaspers. Of course, he can't. He can't warp reality. Mad Jim Jaspers wins.

So, we go into a fight where BOTH characters uses all the powers, capabilities, and abilities they normally possess.

That's as fair as you can get.

Negative

I explained it above.

only the ones listed since they are the very definition of a real fight

No, that's a very limited definition of a fight under your terms.

thats nice, while flash is running goku is there laughing

Because he's at awe that he lost.

[Jplaya2023]

Lol this is starting from scratch again.
Besides what Jplaya means is that it's stupid to compare characters like the way you do it.

Exactly, comic book dude doesnt even see the fallacy in his argument and contuining a losing battle. But i'll be at the front lines waiting on him to make a move

[CBG]

Exactly, comic book dude doesnt even see the fallacy in his argument and contuining a losing battle.

You don't know me well.

But i'll be at the front lines waiting on him to make a move

I was there way back at NF after you posted that photoshopped scan of Superman/Batman #2.

[MSGohan]

For the record, Flash can react far faster than Goku. Before Goku can even think, Flash is already running.
For the record, Goku can react far faster than Flash. Before Flash can even think, Goku is already moving.

See I also have sk!llz in doing that.
Dude we won't get anywere by such statements, just don't state them, because they just piss the other part off, even if it's true.

[CBG]

Lol this is starting from scratch again.
Besides what Jplaya means is that it's stupid to compare characters like the way you do it.
You can't really compare a situation like, if I shoot Bruce Lee in the head with a shotgun while his sleeping, as a battle. This is just too stupid.

Understandable. But it still doesn't excuse that guns > Bruce Lee, however.

As cheap some characters are, it doesn't excuse that they > Goku or any DBZ character. At all.

The rest is oppinions, DBZ "haters" find lame excuses to ridiculousy downpower the fighters, and DBZ (extreme, in your definitions) fans would overpower the fighters, by other but just a valid excuses.

Understandable, but DBZ isn't the be all, end all of things in fiction. There are fictional characters, even universes, that are more powerful than DBZ. That is the truth.

[CBG]

For the record, Goku can react far faster than Flash. Before Flash can even think, Goku is already moving.

See I also have sk!llz in doing that.
Dude we won't get anywere by such statements, just don't state them,

He made his claim, I responded.

because they just piss the other part off, even if it's true.

But it is true though, for Flash.

[Jplaya2023]

You're imagination doesn't count as an audience.

From my experiences here on these boards, everyone ignores your opinions.

That's a front. I have received numerous PM's thanking me for bringing facts, canon, and objectivity to highly subjective board.


So? Luck of the draw.


luck of nothing. Fight fair.


NOT EVERY FICTIONAL CHARACTER IS A SAIYAN.

You dont have to be a saiyan to learn how to dodge ki blast comic book guy. Smarten up



For example, Mad Jim Jaspers vs. Goku. Mad Jim Jaspers has to conform to your definition of a fight, which means, fight like Goku, no reality warping. Of course, James loses.


reality warping != fighting

the definition of a fight:

Fighting: An act of engaging in physical contact between 2 or more opponents, in which punches, and kicks are being thrown until a victor is declared.

boxing = fighting because punches are thrown

martial arts = fighting because punches kicks slams are used

warping reality != fighting, no type of physical contact and opponent has no way of stopping it

Understand now?




That's as fair as you can get.


Fair is the definiiton explained above


I explained it above.

As have I

No, that's a very limited definition of a fight under your terms.



Because he's at awe that he lost.

nothing is limited, its the strict definition taken from various sources

lets see goku and flash race

*shots fired* *goku is instantly at the finish line while flash is still running

goku wins

[MSGohan]

Understandable, but DBZ isn't the be all, end all of things in fiction. There are fictional characters, even universes, that are more powerful than DBZ. That is the truth.
Well some consider DBZ to be above almost all. The reason to that would be because the DB manga is almost left for the viewers to interpret, and some thinks of them as gods others as just above normal humans. That wouldn't have been the case if the manga were more specific about the details like westeren comics are.

[Jplaya2023]

You don't know me well.

I know you well enough through various NF posters, telling me your very rude and bias in arguments. Never willing to concede losing arugment and always try to down people

I was there way back at NF after you posted that photoshopped scan of Superman/Batman #2.

prove its photoshopped and prove i alledgedly photoshopped it

[CBG]

That's a front. I have received numerous PM's thanking me for bringing facts, canon, and objectivity to highly subjective board.

Like what?

luck of nothing. Fight fair.

If that was ever true, muggings would be settled by the gunman and the victim 'fighting fairly'.

You dont have to be a saiyan to learn how to dodge ki blast comic book guy. Smarten up

*quotes*

You can block punches and kicks, and potentially block ki blast with goku's training regimine,

You yourself say otherwise.

reality warping != fighting

the definition of a fight:

Fighting: An act of engaging in physical contact between 2 or more opponents, in which punches, and kicks are being thrown until a victor is declared.

Yes, a HAND-TO-HAND fight.

By that definition, ki blasts not fighting.

boxing = fighting because punches are thrown

martial arts = fighting because punches kicks slams are used

warping reality != fighting, no type of physical contact and opponent has no way of stopping it

But it's a power.

If you excuse that, then Goku can't use ki blasts, since they are 'not fighting'

Understand now?

Your limited view of a fight.

Fair is the definiiton explained above

No, fair as I explained.

Otherwise, muggings would be decided by 'fair fights'. But that's not the case.

As have I

nothing is limited, its the strict definition taken from various sources

That is unable to accompany the fights done by certain fictional characters.

We can't fly or do any of the things certain fictional characters can do.

lets see goku and flash race

*shots fired* *goku is instantly at the finish line while flash is still running

goku wins

Correction, the shot's fired, Flash thinks and then moves and completes the race before Goku can think, least react.

If we're talking all-out, Flash steals his speed and uses the Speed Formula.

Flash still wins.

[CBG]

I know you well enough through various NF posters, telling me your very rude and bias in arguments. Never willing to concede losing arugment and always try to down people

Now I know you're certainly as arrogant and self-conceited as you are.

If I wanted to, I can bring up several threads that heartily says otherwise regarding your attempt of a smear campaign on me. But I rather not.

At least I'm didn't insult an entire forum like you.

prove its photoshopped and prove i alledgedly photoshopped it

Oh, you know what I'm talking about. So does certain posters at NF when you first came.

[MSGohan]

But it is true though, for Flash.
It's an oppinion accepted by many with good reasons.
However if Goku's speed was specified very clearly, like in some panel stating some really specific information about Goku's speed, as it usually is case with Flash for example, then everyone would agree on wether Flash would be faster or not. By comparing it with some of Flash's feats described in details in some panel, like it is usually done in the comics.

But in this case people should be able to agree to disagree.

[CBG]

It's an oppinion accepted by many with good reasons.
However if Goku's speed was specified very clearly, like in some panel stating some really specific information about Goku's speed, as it usually is case with Flash for example, then everyone would agree on wether Flash would be faster or not. By comparing it with some of Flash's feats described in details in some panel, like it is usually done in the comics.

But in this case people should be able to agree to disagree.

Understandable. Though, there are certain things that can't be disagreed.

[CBG]

Oh, Jplaya2023. I found it.

prove its photoshopped and prove i alledgedly photoshopped it

Fine.

http://forums.narutofan.com/showpost.php?p=5238091&postcount=855

And in case you edit it:

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/1825/post855ea4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

And the link is:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v255/jplaya2023/supesownedagain5cw.jpg

A printscreen, if anyone ever saw one. Also note, the link has your name in it.

And the full, unedited scan is:

http://img332.imageshack.us/img332/1972/supermanbatman002pg17jo6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Jplaya2023]

Oh, Jplaya2023. I found it.



Fine.

http://forums.narutofan.com/showpost.php?p=5238091&postcount=855

And in case you edit it:

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/1825/post855ea4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

And the link is:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v255/jplaya2023/supesownedagain5cw.jpg

A printscreen, if I ever saw one. Also note, the link has your name in it.

And the full, unedited scan is:

http://img332.imageshack.us/img332/1972/supermanbatman002pg17jo6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

the only thing i did was add that captain on it. Dunny

[MSGohan]

I thought he had changed this line:
You know what I got sick of, Bruce? You kicking the CRAP out of me with your TOYS.
But it's the same on the original scan, which was Jplaya's point?

[SSJ4_Mikael]

Anyone at Superman / Thor's level or above would destroy any Z-fighter.

[CBG]

the only thing i did was add that captain on it. Dunny

And white out two blurbs of texts.

The caption "Superman owned again" I can care less.

But those two texts you whited out, that was deliberate.

But it's the same on the original scan, which was Jplaya's point?

The blurbs of texts that's been omitted.

[MSGohan]

How people put Thor at Superman's level is really beyond me. Here is a little pwnage by Spidey

http://img15.photobucket.com/albums/v44/guyverjay/Thor_44717.jpg
http://img15.photobucket.com/albums/v44/guyverjay/Thor_44801.jpg
http://img15.photobucket.com/albums/v44/guyverjay/Thor_44802.jpg
http://img15.photobucket.com/albums/v44/guyverjay/Thor_44803.jpg
http://img15.photobucket.com/albums/v44/guyverjay/Thor_44804.jpg
http://img15.photobucket.com/albums/v44/guyverjay/Thor_44805.jpg

[CBG]

Is that Eric Masterdon as Thor?

[Mistress Gluon]

Yeah, because Superman was never sneak attacked without ANY harm, and never attacked by a teammate at a high level he was trying to help out.

I deem those links, misleading.

[Mistress Gluon]

Nay I say thy...I'd still side with Goku...

Nay thee I say.

[SSJ4_Mikael]

Thor is at 100-class strenght, he can move at 300 times the speed of light, and he can use magic's.
Gokou would be nothing but smear on his fist after he is done with him.

And what you witnessed there was PIS, it's the explanation for the unexplainable.

[CBG]

I thought Thor fans just blamed it on Eric Masterdon.

[Mistress Gluon]

Yeah, I agree with CBG, people who limit a fight are just silly, that's like saying no-one can beat flash, but only races count as fights.

That's what people call technicalities.


And the only situations technicalities are needed, is when rapists and murderers have nothing else, because the argument is WAY too stacked against them.


I agree, this thread should have died long ago.

[SSJ4_Mikael]

I thought Thor fans just blamed it on Eric Masterdon.
Thor has fans?! :huh: :wow:

[Mistress Gluon]

Thor is at 100-class strenght, he can move at 300 times the speed of light, and he can use magic's.
Gokou would be nothing but smear on his fist after he is done with him.

And what you witnessed there was PIS, it's the explanation for the unexplainable.

A little misleading.

Thor doesn't really move at THAT high speed. And when he does move at high speeds, they're one directional via hammer. He mostly teleports himself around.

His magics are limited to what his hammer will allow. Dispelling, and storm casting are his main ones.

[SSJ4_Mikael]

A little misleading.

Thor doesn't really move at THAT high speed. And when he does move at high speeds, they're one directional via hammer. He mostly teleports himself around.

His magics are limited to what his hammer will allow. Dispelling, and storm casting are his main ones.
Yes ... But he still moved at 300 times lightspeed ...
Or do you say that he cannot use his hammer in this fight, is that what you say :cmad:

:woot:

[SSJ4_Mikael]

I wonder how Thanos would fare against SSJ4 Gojiita.
http://img111.exs.cx/img111/2192/Thanos_vs_HulkDrax.jpg

[Mistress Gluon]

Yes ... But he still moved at 300 times lightspeed ...
Or do you say that he cannot use his hammer in this fight, is that what you say :cmad:

:woot:

Three hundred times maybe during teleportation. But he doesn't ever seem to be able to do it anywhere else.

As for his hammer? One direction at high speeds, with moderate bending. He's not the most agile guy in existance.

[Mistress Gluon]

I wonder how Thanos would fare against SSJ4 Gojiita.
http://img111.exs.cx/img111/2192/Thanos_vs_HulkDrax.jpg

He'd probably demolish him. Thanos is not only extremely powerful, but knows how to turn a horribly wrong situation to his own terms through pure strategy of an opponents strength.

[Jplaya2023]

Thor is at 100-class strenght, he can move at 300 times the speed of light, and he can use magic's.
Gokou would be nothing but smear on his fist after he is done with him.

And what you witnessed there was PIS, it's the explanation for the unexplainable.

lol thor casually gets tagged by spiderman and slow ass mongoose on the regular

goku would dodge any of thor's attacks and casually destroy him with a planet busting kamehameha

[CBG]

Not to mention, Hal Jordan's GL boxing glove is the only thing that can match Thanos' pimp hand.

And I can see Mjolnir absorbing Goku's KameHame Ha.

[SSJ4_Mikael]

He'd probably demolish him. Thanos is not only extremely powerful, but knows how to turn a horribly wrong situation to his own terms through pure strategy of an opponents strength.
Thanos is not that weak, he can cause Super nova's with single blast's from his fingertip. He have brought down solar system as side effects of his battle.
He have fought Odin :wow: Whom actually destroyed galaxies as side effects of his battles.

[Jplaya2023]

I thought he had changed this line:

But it's the same on the original scan, which was Jplaya's point?

exactly, the canon stands

[CBG]

exactly, the canon stands

With the following dialogue that YOU whited out.

"When you're nothing but a man."

"A man who got to stay alive only because I let you."

[Mistress Gluon]

Thanos is not that weak, he can cause Super nova's with single blast's from his fingertip. He have brought down solar system as side effects of his battle.
He have fought Odin :wow: Whom actually destroyed galaxies as side effects of his battles.

Did you just agree with me, or just enhance on what I was saying?

[Jplaya2023]

With the following dialogue that YOU whited out.

"When you're nothing but a man."

"A man who got to stay alive only because I let you."

irrelevent to the point i'm making

DC

[CBG]

irrelevent to the point i'm making

It does. The dialogue is also 'canon' as you put it.

DC

It's on the same page. You can't say half a page or certain panels are out of continuity.

[Jplaya2023]

It does. The dialogue is also 'canon' as you put it.



It's on the same page. You can't say half a page or certain panels are out of continuity.

I dont see such nonsense in my scan. Perhaps you should re read your losing your eyesight old man

[CBG]

I dont see such nonsense in my scan. Perhaps you should re read your losing your eyesight old man

You clearly whited out two blurbs of texts (three really, but it's Batman's comment on future Superman's 'intel').

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v255/jplaya2023/supesownedagain5cw.jpg

Right above your caption where future Superman slaps Batman into the Adam West Batmobile.

So no, I'm not losing my eyesight.

[Jplaya2023]

You clearly whited out two blurbs of texts (three really, but it's Batman's comment on future Superman's 'intel').

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v255/jplaya2023/supesownedagain5cw.jpg

Right above your caption where future Superman slaps Batman into the Adam West Batmobile.

So no, I'm not losing my eyesight.

Prove thats not how it was in the original. Thats how i got my canon.

[CBG]

Prove thats not how it was in the original. Thats how i got my canon.

And the full, unedited scan is:

http://img332.imageshack.us/img332/1972/supermanbatman002pg17jo6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Note the captions where you put the white spots.

[Jplaya2023]

And the full, unedited scan is:

http://img332.imageshack.us/img332/1972/supermanbatman002pg17jo6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

It appears your "version" of the scan is retconned and re done in an attempt the realize the story. So that non canon text was eradicated in my canon

[CBG]

It appears your "version" of the scan is retconned and re done in an attempt the realize the story.

Retconned and redone? No, that's how the page is.

[CBG]

It appears your "version" of the scan is retconned and re done in an attempt the realize the story. So that non canon text was eradicated in my canon

Non-canon text? Now your bias really shows.

Never have I met a poster who declares a few blurbs of text not in continuity.

Anyways, the text is still 'canon', as you put it.

All you're doing is being childish and making a mockery out of yourself.

And Continuity > whatever your opinions (aka your 'canon') are

[HULKSTER'04]

Jplaya has made a god out of Batman, when even a streetleveler like DareDevil will cripple the Batman in 5 minutes.

[Jplaya2023]

Jplaya has made a god out of Batman, when even a streetleveler like DareDevil will cripple the Batman in 5 minutes.

dawg u have no more credability please pack up your aliases and leave the site

[CBG]

dawg u have no more credability

The average forum poster possesses far more credibility than you, Jplaya2023.

please pack up your aliases and leave the site

You're in no position to even make such a demand, with your arrogance and self-conceit as it is.

[Warhammer]

:sigh:

:whatever: @ Jplaya.

[MSGohan]

And what you witnessed there was PIS, it's the explanation for the unexplainable.
Sad, how people use similar stuff from DB to downpower their powers, and people just agree on that it's not PIS, and those who claim that it's PIS will be labeled as fanboys.

Actaully I'm curious now, can you provide som scans where Thor actually moves at 300c in a battle? Or is it just teleportationen that you label as his speed?

[King Yakumo]

^from what i heard and read thor's reaction speed is FTL, hes not fast as speed of light, just his reaction time i believe. but i dont have scans to prove it so its moot.

thanos would easily manhandle any dbz character, even gogeta.

[Warhammer]

I love this crap when people say, "Maybe the Flash will win in a running race, but he doesn't have fast battle speed." That is so stupid. When you have super speed, EVERYTHING that you can do is fast. You have the ability to think fast, move fast, react fast, have fast reflexes/senses, etc.

:down

[Sloth7d]

^from what i heard and read thor's reaction speed is FTL, hes not fast as speed of light, just his reaction time i believe. but i dont have scans to prove it so its moot.

thanos would easily manhandle any dbz character, even gogeta.
His reaction speed is not that of light or people like Hulk, Spiderman, Quicksilver and others would never keep up with him, much less hit him.

[Jplaya2023]

I love this crap when people say, "Maybe the Flash will win in a running race, but he doesn't have fast battle speed." That is so stupid. When you have super speed, EVERYTHING that you can do is fast. You have the ability to think fast, move fast, react fast, have fast reflexes/senses, etc.

:down

its common sense, running linear != combat speed

During a fight your throwing and dodging punches kicks ki blast etc....

Think about it like this

if someone had to run a 40 yard dash linear, their time would be much faster than someone running a 40 yard dash while running around those orange cones to their

[CBG]

Flash has demonstrated that his super speed isn't limited to just plain running, you know.

Not to mention, super speed in general is not necessarily restricted to flight or just running, for som characters.

[Sloth7d]

Yeah. Flash is one of the few characters who has super speed and super agility. Everything he does is fast. Feel sorry for his wife though.

[Cyrusbales]

Flash is one of the most overpowered characters in comic books. That's why they have tried to tone him down a lot over the years.

And yes, his wife must feel bad Sloth7d, BUT, even worse, does superman's ejaculate come out like a shotgun?

[CBG]

Ah, the infamous "Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex" theory.

Even if Lois did successfuly withstood and conceive, there's the possibility that the baby would kick it's way out of the womb.

[Cyrusbales]

so many issues there, man of steel bollox