Who in DC or Marvel would give Goku a good fight?

[Carcharodon]

Originally posted by guyverjay
BTW we could substitute black hole for THE SUN, either way works Hmm...the Sun would be a safer bet. Less dangerous to Goku, more dangerous to Juggy.

Not even light can escape a black hole...

[Guyverjay]

Originally posted by Wall_Crawler_2003
As I understand it, Instant Transmission is moving at the speed of light, correct?
Yes and no

You actually become LIGHT

[Carcharodon]

Originally posted by guyverjay
Yes and no

You actually become LIGHT Ah, I see. Well then the black hole idea wouldn't work. :(

[Guyverjay]

Originally posted by Wall_Crawler_2003
Ah, I see. Well then the black hole idea wouldn't work. :(

He doesn't have to go into the basck hole with him and he becomes physical again once he gets there. He only has to drop him off into its gravitational pull and its game over for juggy. Goku has shown that e can easily escape the gravity of a star using a ki burst.

[War Lord]

I've watched DBZ almost religiously and I haven't seen much indication that he's naturally strongly telepathic. He had to touch Krillin's head to find out what happened when he became healed during the Frieza saga and when he communicated telepathically to the big blue guy in the sky (I've forgotten his name, but he has a cricket and monkey as pets), it seemed to me that the big blue guy kept a channel open, not Goku opening a channel.

As far as Kitty Pryde or Charles Xavier goes, hasn't anybody heard of a surprise attack. I can imagine a conversation going something like this:

Pryde: Help Goku!

Goku: What's wrong?

Pryde: I need your help, I'm so scared.

Goku: Let me give you a hug, everything's going to be all right!

Pryde: Oh thank you Goku! Why oh Why me? (As she's thumping him on the chest)


Goku: You must tell me what's wrong, I will help you.

Pryde: You have such a big heart. See? (As she phases it out) and Goku keels over dead

[War Lord]

I do have an idea, Why don't we start a list of superheroes who might have a realistic chance of beating Goku and say what strategy they might use to do it. And I do mean realistically, a little strategy and their powers. My strategy with Kitty Pryde would work, if Goku didn't know who she was and she was a blood thirsty killer.

I haven't seen DBGT or DBf;lajsfojweropfjqwe;tjf, so I don't know what powers Goku developed since Buu.

[War Lord]

I'd like to start a list of marvel or dc super heroes who might stand a reasonable chance of beating Goku, whether in a fair fight or surprise attack. I hope you'll join in. If you do, please cut and paste so we can see this list grow. As far as Doctor Strange goes, I understand that Goku needs a familiar energy reading to lock on before trasmitting so a lifeless universe could trap Goku.

Kitty Pryde: surprise phase attack, removing a vital organ.
Charles Xavier: Controlling Goku's mind to put him to sleep
Doctor Strange: sending Goku to a lifeless universe.
Silver Surfer: energy absorption sending any excess energy into space.

[Guyverjay]

This has been explained before:o

Goku communicated with trunks while fighting fat BUU WITHOUT king kai.

Also you have to TOUCH king kai on the shoulder to use his telepathic abilties and Goku communicated more than once from the other world WITHOUT doing that.

Kitty pride doesn't work because shes not a killer and why would goku give her a hug???

Weak:o

Your DR strange scenario has already been proved wrong.

If thor can beat surfer then goku would murder him. Sayns have COMPLETE control over there KI so any blasts that surfer try to send to space would just get redirected back towards him.

Goku is faster than light and add his own telepathic abilties equals Xavier splattered all over the floor at 133,000 miles per second:o

[litlgreendude]

id say superman...cause he can fly n stuff.

[Carcharodon]

Originally posted by guyverjay
He doesn't have to go into the basck hole with him and he becomes physical again once he gets there. He only has to drop him off into its gravitational pull and its game over for juggy. Goku has shown that e can easily escape the gravity of a star using a ki burst. The gravitational force of a black hole is many many many many times stronger than that of any star. :confused:

You're also saying that Goku can travel faster with a Ki blast than he can with Instant Transmission...:confused:

[dmcnx]

Jonty,give up.Guyverjay is the Avatar king(officially)and the DBZ/GT/AF expert(IMO)

Nobody(apart from Akira) Can challenge him...

[Guyverjay]

Originally posted by Wall_Crawler_2003
The gravitational force of a black hole is many many many many times stronger than that of any star. :confused:

You're also saying that Goku can travel faster with a Ki blast than he can with Instant Transmission...:confused:

No I just pointed out that Goku once escaped the gravity of a star using a ki blast (used it to aid his space ships propulsion). Ths was in the early days before he even arrived on namek. NOW Goku is many times faster than the speed of light, so no black hole is going to get him.

[M.A.D. Agent]

http://inspector-gadget.net/php/images/smilies/mad3.gif Do you mean physical or mental fight? Goku isn't the brighest star in the galaxy so anyone can defeat him using they're mind. simply putting a deadly poison in his rice and sayonara Goku son. But seriously, any psychic in the marvel universe can grant pilaf his wish and make Goku a kid again, mentally, so they can kick his ass. How can you defeat someone who can whip out you mind? Goku doesn't have much of one to begin with so it wouldn't be a challenge. But its not his fault, he got droped on his head when he was a baby.

But physical fight, it would depend on which level in the series. Goku is pretty much a japanese rip off of Superman. Born on a distant planet dat blew up, raised as a baby by old peeps, can fly, extraordinary strength, etc...But I'm not faulting the japanese for copying Superman, that's what they do best, copy the West and make it a lil better in they're on way.

But although the way Goku can destroy planets and has an unlimited amount of strength, looks like he'd beat Superman in a fight, but couldn't kill him.

Characters that could potentially defeat Goku (prior to DBGT cuz in GT the writers practically make him a god)would be Dr. Strange, Galactus, Captain Marvel, Rouge (if obsurbed his power), Spider-man (using his intelligence), Xavior, Dark Phoenix, man there are a lot i think. And you gotta consider that Goku defeats most of his really powerfull enemies and the ultimate evil Buu with a Spirit Bomb, and i don't think it would be quite effect against good guys (if we still believe the spirit bomb can only harm those who are evil) http://inspector-gadget.net/php/images/smilies/mad3.gif

[CHAN MAN]

But physical fight, it would depend on which level in the series. Goku is pretty much a japanese rip off of Superman. Born on a distant planet dat blew up, raised as a baby by old peeps, can fly, extraordinary strength, etc...But I'm not faulting the japanese for copying Superman, that's what they do best, copy the West and make it a lil better in they're on way

what the hell u talking about, dbz was based on a chinese folk tale!!

[CHAN MAN]

rogue and spider man??? hahaha dont make laugh, the other people u listed i would have to agree, but rogue and spider man, lol goku will slaughter them, i bet u he can beat both of them with one finger, literally!! the other people u listed would give goku a challenge, but goku will beat them in the end!!

[M.A.D. Agent]

Originally posted by CHAN MAN
what the hell u talking about, dbz was based on a chinese folk tale!!

You got your facts twisted. The original Dragonball was based on chinese folk tale. Dragonball Z was not mon ami. http://inspector-gadget.net/php/images/smilies/mad3.gif

[War Lord]

I'd like to know what is the point of this particular forum if we can't give some serious discussion to how other heroes might beat Goku. IF the only point of this forum is to fawn over Goku, I can do that.

Oh Goku what dreamy eyes he has and he's so muscular and good looking. Ohhhhhhh, he gives me the warmies!!!

Goku is so strong!
Goku is so strong!
Goku is so strong!
Goku is so strong!
Goku is so strong!
Goku is so strong!
Goku is so dreamy!
Goku is so dreamy!
Goku is so dreamy!
Goku is so dreamy!
Goku is so dreamy!

Although I can fawn over Goku with the best of you, I don't find that particular forum to be very interesting. I am more interested in what possible strategies other heroes might use to beat him.

[gammamega]

first Goku does not unlimted or travel in speed of light intramissiom in teleportion move,ki blast move no way can he escape dark hole he to fine push back. I'm dbz fan I seen ever uncut part , telepahic abiltes are not great king kai. spirt bomb kill any person would is evil , now super sayian 4 , is the key to beat Baby, Goku does have unlimted strenght he trained take years, to get stronger,telepahic are not strong Xavier , he almost kill the pouplation of mutant and people, Goku can't.depend how much he tranied to get strong. Goku can not block any ki blast , the end fusion sega buu was about to destroy the planet Goku try block it and it still going.second Super sayian 2 goku was shoot ki blast and nothing .
I'm expert guyverjay,destroying planet only take ki blast thats it.

[Guyverjay]

Originally posted by gammamega
with first Goku does not unlimted or travel in speed of light intramissiom in teleportion move,ki blast move no way can escape dark hole he to fine push back. I'm dbz fan I seen ever uncut part , telepahic abiltes are not great king kai. move people spirt bomb kill any person would is evil , now super sayian 4 , is the key to beat Baby, Goku does have unlimted strenght he trained take years, to get stronger,telepahic are strong not Xavier , he almost kill the pouplation of mutant and people, Goku can't.depend how much he tranied get strong. Goku can not block any ki blast , the end fusion sega buu was about to destroy the planet Goku try block it and it still going.second Super sayian 2 goku was shoot ki blast and it nothing.
I'm expert guyverjay

You certainly don't sound like one:)

[gammamega]

trust me I know a lot of DBZ , I have thank my brother

[War Lord]

The Beyonder from the Marvel comics could have beat Goku.

[Guyverjay]

Originally posted by jonty30
The Beyonder from the Marvel comics could have beat Goku.

No, because half his feats were illusions:)

His stories have been retconned and he wasn't nowhere near as powerful as he acted:D

[Guyverjay]

Originally posted by gammamega
trust me I know a lot of DBZ , I have thank my brother

So why do you dispute Instant transmission and the fact that goku can travel faster than light, you should know that to be truew:o

Hence I don't trust you:)

[M.A.D. Agent]

LOL, this is gold. Its almost sad though, the length ppl would go to defend DBZ and how some people think Goku is a non-fictional character. All this scientific explainations for something so comical as which other comic or cartoon would beat Goku. I mean am i the only person that sees how obsurd this is? I pray I'm not. Its okay to have fun with it but to flame everyone for something that cannot proven right or wrong is just extreme and silly. Some people need to find more meaningful hobbies. http://inspector-gadget.net/php/images/smilies/mad3.gif

[War Lord]

LOL, this is gold. Its almost sad though, the length ppl would go to defend DBZ

The big problem I have are those who say Goku can beat this or Goku can beat that, without looking considering physiological limits or scientific facts. For example, the laws of physics require that matter use a disproportionate amount of power the faster it moves. For example, a small piece of matter requires little energy to move 10 miles/hour, however, it would require the energy of the universe to move that same matter fast than light. Assuming that even this law of physics applies in the DBZ universe, just because Goku became about a million times more powerful from the beginning of DBZ to DBGT, doesn't necessarily mean that he became a million times faster or stronger. The only reference anybody has as to speed in DBZ is the first episode where Piccolo attacked Raditz. Piccolo, "He's faster than the speed of light!!" Since Piccolo is not a physicist,, he probably meant, "He's faster than the speed of lightning!!", since the likely only real reference Piccolo has for knowing the speed of light are the lightning strikes he sees in the wilderness, which the lead stroke moves at no more than 1000m/s or the return stroke which moves at no more than 87,000m/s.

Unless somebody can prove me wrong, my Guess for Goku is:

top speed: 100, 000mph (aside from Instant Transmission)
strength: 250 tons

[War Lord]

I'm sorry, I meant 144,000 km/hr

[Guyverjay]

Originally posted by jonty30
LOL, this is gold. Its almost sad though, the length ppl would go to defend DBZ

The big problem I have are those who say Goku can beat this or Goku can beat that, without looking considering physiological limits or scientific facts. For example, the laws of physics require that matter use a disproportionate amount of power the faster it moves. For example, a small piece of matter requires little energy to move 10 miles/hour, however, it would require the energy of the universe to move that same matter fast than light. Assuming that even this law of physics applies in the DBZ universe, just because Goku became about a million times more powerful from the beginning of DBZ to DBGT, doesn't necessarily mean that he became a million times faster or stronger. The only reference anybody has as to speed in DBZ is the first episode where Piccolo attacked Raditz. Piccolo, "He's faster than the speed of light!!" Since Piccolo is not a physicist,, he probably meant, "He's faster than the speed of lightning!!", since the likely only real reference Piccolo has for knowing the speed of light are the lightning strikes he sees in the wilderness, which the lead stroke moves at no more than 1000m/s or the return stroke which moves at no more than 87,000m/s.

Unless somebody can prove me wrong, my Guess for Goku is:

top speed: 100, 000mph (aside from Instant Transmission)
strength: 250 tons

What has physics got to do with anything in relation to DBZ or even comics books in general??

Gotenks flew around the earth around 20 times in couple of seconds (like at the end of superman), I'd say that qualifies as light speed wouldn't you?

And if piccollo said it then it then its canon. He's hardly a dumbass. He retains all the knowledge and wisdom of the piccollo before him and his counterpart the guardian of the earth, Kami.

Also Goku with his 180,000 power level was able to stop a mountain from crushing him with his bare hands so I'd say he was a bit stronger than 250 tonnes. Vegeta trains in 400 times the earths gravity and is able to move exactly the same as if in normal gravity assuming he's 200lbs for the sake of argument. His body alone would weigh 40 tonnes (shows how durable even a normal sayan is).He couldn't even transform into a super sayan then.

Also when ever someone raises their power level above the other guys . The weaker guy can never lay a hand on him for being too slow. The only excpetion to this rule was the Ultra sayan state which all about strength rather than speed

[War Lord]

400 earth gravities x 200 lbs is 80 000 lbs or 40 tons.

Nice try, doesn't disprove my point.

[Guyverjay]

Originally posted by jonty30
400 earth gravities x 200 lbs is 80 000 lbs or 40 tons.

Nice try, doesn't disprove my point.

:rolleyes:

Did you even read my post?

[War Lord]

I read your post, but I'm just messing with your mind. As I said before, I was simply interested in HOW the DC or Marvel characters could beat Goku, even in a surprise attack, I wasn't interested in debating who was stronger or why. Since you're adament about Goku being unbeatable and are unwilling to play with the concept, this isn't much of a forum or at least an enjoyable one. So what's the point, I maintain the position that Goku can be beaten under the right circumstances and you maintain your position that Goku can't be beaten. Sounds like a stalemate to me.

[Guyverjay]

Originally posted by jonty30
I read your post, but I'm just messing with your mind. As I said before, I was simply interested in HOW the DC or Marvel characters could beat Goku, even in a surprise attack, I wasn't interested in debating who was stronger or why. Since you're adament about Goku being unbeatable and are unwilling to play with the concept, this isn't much of a forum or at least an enjoyable one. So what's the point, I maintain the position that Goku can be beaten under the right circumstances and you maintain your position that Goku can't be beaten. Sounds like a stalemate to me.

Regardless of what you want to discuss, the thread is who in marvel and DC can give goku a good fight and there are quite a few depending on what part of the story you're picking it up from. You just haven't named any of them:)

[War Lord]

Regardless of what you want to discuss, the thread is who in marvel and DC can give goku a good fight and there are quite a few depending on what part of the story you're picking it up from. You just haven't named any of them

Alrighty then, we're finally getting somewhere. Here is what I propose, why don't we split Goku into his various power levels and guess which heroes would give him that good fight? Let us also assume fairly that those who can travel ftl under their own steam will likely also have ftl reactions as well, because if one can travel ftl, but not have a comparable reaction rate, then it means flying into stars, planets, comets, and/or spaceships.

[M.A.D. Agent]

Originally posted by jonty30
I read your post, but I'm just messing with your mind. As I said before, I was simply interested in HOW the DC or Marvel characters could beat Goku, even in a surprise attack, I wasn't interested in debating who was stronger or why. Since you're adament about Goku being unbeatable and are unwilling to play with the concept, this isn't much of a forum or at least an enjoyable one. So what's the point, I maintain the position that Goku can be beaten under the right circumstances and you maintain your position that Goku can't be beaten. Sounds like a stalemate to me.

I agree with jonty30, whats the point if your going to argue Goku is the ultimate fighter in all the comic book, anime, and cartoon universe. The fact ppl are bringing up fuzzy math and science is so ridiculous. Einstein would be rolling in his grave if he learned that ppl were using his theories to explain anime. Forget Einstein, Akira T. would choke on his sushi laughing and I wouldn't blame him. How do you apply "physiological limits or scientific facts" to a cartoon; you need to ask yourself did the creator have this in mind? And When I say creator i don't mean God, I mean Akira Toriyama (although some ppl think of him as a god and defend dragonball as they would a religious faith. You guys know who you are).
Anyways I challenge the "Undisputed Avatar King" and everyone else for that matter to read the title of the thread carefully and name some characters that can give Goku a good fight or defeat him; otherwise if you can't stop trying to prove everyone wrong because your not right. Your arguments are opinionated not factual; just as everyone else is, including mine. http://inspector-gadget.net/php/images/smilies/mad3.gif

[War Lord]

When it comes to estimating Goku's power, we can only make assumptions based on what he could do. Since there's no way to know what a power level of 330 or 330 million really means in the "real" world. For example, when he was a kid in Dragonball (I'm just starting to watch that series since YTV in Canada is now carrying it), it looks like he isn't much more than a very tough street kid, he wasn't invulnerable and he wasn't very street smart, though he was a tough fighter. So who do I think could take him at this stage: with the right strategy, the heroes who also fight tough "street" villains, like Batman, Punisher, Dare Devil, etc. At the beginning of DBZ, he was much tougher, but not unstoppable, therefore I conclude that perhaps Spiderman, or the Human Torch could stop him. When he became SS3, only the toughest heroes could deal with Goku, like Silver Surfer. Some heroes like post-crisis Superman I think could take Goku at SS2, but not SS3. However, the pre-crisis Superman probably could have taken Goku at any level because Supes had much faster than light reactions and had the strength to move the earth, which made him at least a million times stronger than Goku at any level, not to mention his full-blast heat-vision was probably also comparable to a million times stronger than Goku's Kamehameha at any level. I am not taking this subject too seriously, but I'm willing set up a list for anybody to add to it for analysis.

[Capt Throbberson]

Even though there would be no situation where goku would have a reason to fight the JLA i would love to see a fight between Goku and the JLA

[Eyeballing]

Originally posted by jonty30
Regardless of what you want to discuss, the thread is who in marvel and DC can give goku a good fight and there are quite a few depending on what part of the story you're picking it up from. You just haven't named any of them

Alrighty then, we're finally getting somewhere. Here is what I propose, why don't we split Goku into his various power levels and guess which heroes would give him that good fight? Let us also assume fairly that those who can travel ftl under their own steam will likely also have ftl reactions as well, because if one can travel ftl, but not have a comparable reaction rate, then it means flying into stars, planets, comets, and/or spaceships.

The reason you CANT is because Goku at what? power level um whatever he was when he was a child in DB was suppossed to conquer the WHOLE PLANET OF EARTH in a few years? So assuming he would have grown to at least power level 100 that means that at that stage he is far beyond anyone you suggested could beat him with characters like spiderman. Spidey although i love him wouldnt stand a chance against a kid that is suppossed to take over the whole earth when he is no where near SS3 power leve. Guys like SS and Supes would give him a hard time at SS3 but i dont think they would even be a match. Goku is on a whole different playing field. Besides if you know the series fairly well and have seen it at least a few times, then you know that ALL of the DBZ fighter's power levels are inconsistent.

[War Lord]

1. Goku couldn't conquer Earth as Goku the boy, but only Goku as
the ape, during a full moon, the boy, however, didn't appear to
do anything that Batman or Daredevil couldn't handle.
2. Earth was assumed to reasonably powerless and if Goku the
ape was as powerful as a naval destroyer, then he would have
been unstoppable except for the fact that they removed his tail.
3. As far as SS goes, he could absorb close to unlimited energies,
so Goku could poweer up, SS could use the strategy of holding
on to him and keep absorbing his energy until Goku wasn't a
Super Sayajin. As far as Superman goes, it depends whether
he was pre-crisis or post crisis. If post-crisis, I think he could
beat Goku at level two super sayajin, but not lever three. If
Superman was pre-crisis, than he could beat Goku at and level,
because his strength and energy levels was on a cosmic level.

[Guyverjay]

Originally posted by jonty30
1. Goku couldn't conquer Earth as Goku the boy, but only Goku as
the ape, during a full moon, the boy, however, didn't appear to
do anything that Batman or Daredevil couldn't handle.
2. Earth was assumed to reasonably powerless and if Goku the
ape was as powerful as a naval destroyer, then he would have
been unstoppable except for the fact that they removed his tail.
3. As far as SS goes, he could absorb close to unlimited energies,
so Goku could poweer up, SS could use the strategy of holding
on to him and keep absorbing his energy until Goku wasn't a
Super Sayajin. As far as Superman goes, it depends whether
he was pre-crisis or post crisis. If post-crisis, I think he could
beat Goku at level two super sayajin, but not lever three. If
Superman was pre-crisis, than he could beat Goku at and level,
because his strength and energy levels was on a cosmic level.

Goku the boy at the VERY beginning was at 10 (around twice the power of an average man). His oozaru form at the beginning was 100. His power at his first budokai (he was still a child) was 180. More than enough to kick most super heroes asses. Piccollo with around 400 blew up the moon with one hand you know.

SS cannot absorb close or any near to unlimited energies. If he absorbs too much he WILL EXPLODE. This has been addressed in the comics when the surfer became a living bomb. Surfer is NOT a good fighter at all , hes powerful but he's had his ass given to him by thor and morg. This is roughly 5 minutes after morg had been give the power cosmic and the more experienced surfer got his ass whupped. He had to run along and get backup. Add to the fact while the surfer can FLY well faster than light, his fighting speed and reflexs are nowhere near that level. Another reason why thor sticks his hammer up surfers ass. Thor is a hardly a speedster. Also one of babidis men (yakkon I think) tried the energy absorbtion trick and goku intentinally sent a massive power surge straight into him blowing him to kingdom come. He did this without even trying, much to vegetas chagrin.

Postcrisis wouldn't even beat a level ONE super sayan. Everyone is forgeting that goku is an expert in martal arts. Example make bruce lee kryptonian and put him up against superman. Whats going to happen? Sueps is going to get ass raped plain and simple. Strentgh doesn't mean jack **** in martial arts,its all about technique and superman (even though he has some limited training from mongul) has no technique what so ever. Its just punch punch. Any martial atist worth his salt is going to block and reverse the punches and smack him one in the face.

I'm even adding the fcat supes virtually NEVER uses speed fighting because he's not very good at it. Goku alwayts fight at inhuman speeds. Supes is just outclassed.

Pre crisis supes, now that is a different story. He was a tough son of a gun but still has the same weaknesses as the current supes. No technique. He soooo used to standing there and folding his arm that goku would blow him up with a galaxy destroying blast. He may survive he may not, dunno. Either way put in End of GT goku and pre crsis supes gets sent to the next dimension:)

[Anubis]

Damn!! This thread is still going?!?!

[Eyeballing]

Originally posted by guyverjay
Goku the boy at the VERY beginning was at 10 (around twice the power of an average man). His oozaru form at the beginning was 100. His power at his first budokai (he was still a child) was 180. More than enough to kick most super heroes asses. Piccollo with around 400 blew up the moon with one hand you know.

SS cannot absorb close or any near to unlimited energies. If he absorbs too much he WILL EXPLODE. This has been addressed in the comics when the surfer became a living bomb. Surfer is NOT a good fighter at all , hes powerful but he's had his ass given to him by thor and morg. This is roughly 5 minutes after morg had been give the power cosmic and the more experienced surfer got his ass whupped. He had to run along and get backup. Add to the fact while the surfer can FLY well faster than light, his fighting speed and reflexs are nowhere near that level. Another reason why thor sticks his hammer up surfers ass. Thor is a hardly a speedster. Also one of babidis men (yakkon I think) tried the energy absorbtion trick and goku intentinally sent a massive power surge straight into him blowing him to kingdom come. He did this without even trying, much to vegetas chagrin.

Postcrisis wouldn't even beat a level ONE super sayan. Everyone is forgeting that goku is an expert in martal arts. Example make bruce lee kryptonian and put him up against superman. Whats going to happen? Sueps is going to get ass raped plain and simple. Strentgh doesn't mean jack **** in martial arts,its all about technique and superman (even though he has some limited training from mongul) has no technique what so ever. Its just punch punch. Any martial atist worth his salt is going to block and reverse the punches and smack him one in the face.

I'm even adding the fcat supes virtually NEVER uses speed fighting because he's not very good at it. Goku alwayts fight at inhuman speeds. Supes is just outclassed.

Pre crisis supes, now that is a different story. He was a tough son of a gun but still has the same weaknesses as the current supes. No technique. He soooo used to standing there and folding his arm that goku would blow him up with a galaxy destroying blast. He may survive he may not, dunno. Either way put in End of GT goku and pre crsis supes gets sent to the next dimension:)

Good points, except that GT sucks period, all of it, with the exception of the animation supes should wipe his ass with that garbage. But Goku would kick the crap out of supes. Same with Chrome Dome:d

Oh and that whole morg thing, he didnt beat the snot out of SS right away, he first augmented his powers then he beat the crap out of SS then SS got back up :D

[Sava]

Hulk

[Guyverjay]

Originally posted by dark_knight_fan
Good points, except that GT sucks period, all of it, with the exception of the animation supes should wipe his ass with that garbage. But Goku would kick the crap out of supes. Same with Chrome Dome:d

Oh and that whole morg thing, he didnt beat the snot out of SS right away, he first augmented his powers then he beat the crap out of SS then SS got back up :D

No you're wrong (I've got the herald ordeal issues). Morg beat the crap out of SS BEFORE he augmented himself in that pool.

[Kid Protocol]

Howard the Duck would kick Goku's ass. Howard invites Goku out for dinner. Goku being the conisour of food that he is doesn't turn down a free meal. Plus, Howard is a harmless little cigar smoking duck, what harm could he do. But it's a trap!!! When they get to the restuarant Howard shows Goku his god awfull 80's movie. Goku in shock of the crap he is witnessing before his eyes chokes on a turkey leg. It becomes engulfed in his throat and Goku dies. The last image sees are of Howard and Lea Thompson on screen kiss.

[98rs1spg]

that is true all suck. superman is the gratest hero in the world. but second only batman can defeat them all. so keep all your crap to your self and gat a life and a high paying job. Or a paper round cause that is how thick you all am!!!!!!!!!!

[Guyverjay]

Originally posted by 98rs1spg
that is true all suck. superman is the gratest hero in the world. but second only batman can defeat them all. so keep all your crap to your self and gat a life and a high paying job. Or a paper round cause that is how thick you all am!!!!!!!!!!

Go to school and get ed.....u.......ca.....ted:)

[Super_Child]

Even though im a big fan of DBZ, goku has no chance.

On Earth or anywhere near a sun like earths Superman IS INVULNERABLE. Now... as far as i know Goku's kame-hame-ha attack isnt exactly kryptonite energy lol. Therefor if you weigh up each of their strengths Supes is indestructable and goku is just a very very powerful being.

On the otherhand, If somehow goku got Supes away from a yellow sun :) Im sure he would beat Superman as his powers would fade away :)

[Guyverjay]

Originally posted by Super_Child
Even though im a big fan of DBZ, goku has no chance.

On Earth or anywhere near a sun like earths Superman IS INVULNERABLE. Now... as far as i know Goku's kame-hame-ha attack isnt exactly kryptonite energy lol. Therefor if you weigh up each of their strengths Supes is indestructable and goku is just a very very powerful being.

On the otherhand, If somehow goku got Supes away from a yellow sun :) Im sure he would beat Superman as his powers would fade away :)

Um you've read death of superman, doomsday: hunter prey, kingdom come??

Supes is far from invulnerable

[M.A.D. Agent]

Originally posted by guyverjay
Um you've read death of superman, doomsday: hunter prey, kingdom come??

Supes is far from invulnerable

Mr. Jay keeps on...

http://www.eveready.com/images/bunny/BnyBigBunny_img.jpg

Perhaps you should give it a rest man

[Guyverjay]

I think not:o

The thread is alive as long as someone else posts in it. Its not like I am bumping the thing.

[lord vegeta]

silver surfer can beat the hell outta goku...franklin richards could just think about it and...poof no more goku

[Guyverjay]

Originally posted by lord vegeta
silver surfer can beat the hell outta goku...franklin richards could just think about it and...poof no more goku

Just like surfer beats thor right?

Franklin richards lost his powers again.

[Dark Carnage]

Yeah, Lord Vegeta, I suggest you give up now.

Jay has an answer for everything. EVERYTHING!

:D

[Guyverjay]

Not everything, noone has bothered to mention a cosmic cube like kubik or chaos and order, the stranger etc.

Everyone just keeps mentioning people like superman, silver surfer and even kitty pride:o

[Dark Carnage]

Touche.

But you have said on occasion, "Bar the omnipitants(sp?)"

And get a new avatar!:mad:

That one makes you seem cold, uncaring, and scary.:(

[Guyverjay]

Originally posted by Dark Carnage
Touche.

But you have said on occasion, "Bar the omnipitants(sp?)"

And get a new avatar!:mad:

That one makes you seem cold, uncaring, and scary.:(

True, picking an omnipotent being is a cop out. The Only person who had a good case was Kroc with his Cyborg superman scenario.

The avatar reflects my retirement

[Kroc1138]

Originally posted by guyverjay
True, picking an omnipotent being is a cop out. The Only person who had a good case was Kroc with his Cyborg superman scenario.

The avatar reflects my retirement PLus the fact that, there is such thing as omnipotent Goku (DBGT). At that point it just becomes a pissing contest.

[Kmack]

One word...Phoenix.

[Mortadelo]

Spider-Man with the Captain Universe's Powers

[Hyper Venom]

I still think Phoenix would give him a good fight.

[demitri_vampiro]

phoenix, apocalypse, thor, shadowcat,

[Guyverjay]

Actually stating HOW would be a good start

[Acro]

Actually one of my own characters (that´ll be published soon) would give Goku a run for his money. Not in a physical fight, but one of his powers are that he can, via telepathy, plant a thought in his opponents mind and make it so convincing that it actually happens. For example; Mindzeye (my character.) tells Goku that his arms are falling off or his head is about to explode and it physically happens.

How do you like them apples?

[Odin's Lapdog]

Man, it has to be said that this is by far one of the best threads that i have read on the hype for quite some time.

Good arguments oin both sides.

first of all, i would like to make a point about all of the arguments where Instant translocation would be used to move the openents to a black hole. Well if this happened it wouldn't be much of a fight anyway:rolleyes: so i'm gonna put a boundary of a comtinent as a battle field to my argument. Secondly, all of the accusations of Goku being a powerful telepath are higly mis guided. If he was able to do that, then why would he even need to block in a confrontation?

Saying this, if rogue was allowed the suffiecinent amount of time to have physical contact with Goku as she did with Ms Marvel, and was able to gain his powers, i would probably give it to her. Goku hasn't fought that many people in respect to rogue (as well as other marvel and DC characters) so her fighting genius would be greater (plus she knows all that he knows but he doesn't know all that she knows).

Even saying this, i don't belive that if all of the characters in DB were exposed to the training that goku had, that he would still be the most powerful. That honour has always been given to Gohan in my opinion. If gohan had trained through his growing years and had retained his tail to reach his SSJ 4 equivalent (maybe ssj 6 or 7) he would have easily been strong enough to be SSJ 4 gogeta (who was more powerful than goku's final stage as goku needed a spirit bomb while gogeta would have done the job with 2 normal blasts)

anyway that's my 2 cents.


also the brothers from the Marvel vs DC would both destroy him in a heart beat.

:)

long live gohan.

[nWo]

Guys who can fight Goku.Easy
Beyonder and Molecular Manand Thanos with the jewels would beat Goku easly

[Carcharodon]

Originally posted by Odin's Lapdog
Man, it has to be said that this is by far one of the best threads that i have read on the hype for quite some time.

Good arguments oin both sides.

first of all, i would like to make a point about all of the arguments where Instant translocation would be used to move the openents to a black hole. Well if this happened it wouldn't be much of a fight anyway:rolleyes: so i'm gonna put a boundary of a comtinent as a battle field to my argument. Secondly, all of the accusations of Goku being a powerful telepath are higly mis guided. If he was able to do that, then why would he even need to block in a confrontation?
Actually, there's a difference between telekinesis and telepathic abilities. Also, I agree that his telepathic abilities do have limits. As far as I can tell, he can only use them for communication (except the occurrence with Krillin on Namek).

Also, depending on how weak his opponent is, he can simply use his Ki to block a punch. He woudln't even have to budge.

[Odin's Lapdog]

I meant that he would be able to read the mind of his attackers and then place himself out of harm's way. that was what i was trying to get at.

I had a feeling that X-man could give him a good run for his money.

In fact i have a few fanfic with X-Man vs Trunks and then Akuma (from street fighter vs Goku, then trunks)


i think X-man would do some damage.

[Carcharodon]

Originally posted by Odin's Lapdog
I meant that he would be able to read the mind of his attackers and then place himself out of harm's way. that was what i was trying to get at.
Possibly. It doesn't necessarily mean, however, that just because he may know a punch is coming he can definitely dodge it. The matter of sheer speed comes into play as well.

It also requires some concentration. Usually, unless Goku can easily outpower his opponent, he doesn't use that ability while in the midst of a heated battle. He relies more on instinct than anything to anticipate an attack.

[spider-jide]

Originally posted by Lobo of Krypton
Well, who would put up the best fight? Superman, Thor, Hulk, Captain Marvel, Silver Surfer any others you can think of?

The beyonder, galactus, silver surfer and maybe thor could take goku down but goku would easily destroy superman easily.

[church dude]

bishop, but hes too slow

[Guyverjay]

BISHOP????

bwahahahahahahahaha

[church dude]

he can redirect energy blasts that are fired at him.

[Guyverjay]

I know what his powers are.

But

A) I highly doubt he can absorb the amount energy that can destroy the planet ( he couldn't even absorb legions energy without help)

B)Goku can obviously deflect his own ki


C) Whats to stop goku moving at light speed and knocking bishops head off with his little toe?

[spider-jide]

bishop? Please tell me your kidding? Goku moves almost 10x faster than superman and will most certainly kill bishop with extreme ease. The fight would be over before it even begins.

[church dude]

ive been drinking, sorry
falls off chair

[GammaBeast]

It depends, if goku is a ss3 or ss4 I would say he could take almost anyone. Brolly was able to destroy entire galaxies(the opening scene in movie 8). As a SS4 goku would be far beyond that and capable of pretty much blowing away anyone.

As for bishop, true he can absorb energy, but Goku has dealt with that before, the androids were capable of absorbing energy attacks. Also Goku may be a moron, but when it comes to fighting he is a genius, it wouldn't take long to realise he needed to use physical attacks on bishop and there is no way bishop could stand up to a single physical hit from goku.

[fist_of_fate007]

GOku could probably beat anyone, but he has a limit. He can only go to super saiyan 4. Don't get me wrong I like goku but there probably some mutant out there we haven't found out, who is probably as strong or stronger than goku.

[Guyverjay]

That is generalising at its best

[GammaBeast]

I thought the whole premise of DBZ was that these people could train forever with no limit.

If you go by the legend of the super saiyan, it says that one day a super saiyan will emerge so powerful that the entire universe will be destroyed in his wake. Considering Goku is the last true Super Saiyan he will eventually reach this level of power.

[X-Ray]

how bout the android from the justice league cartoon who can duplicate ppls' powers ...

[MJB]

Originally posted by fist_of_fate007
GOku could probably beat anyone, but he has a limit. He can only go to super saiyan 4. Don't get me wrong I like goku but there probably some mutant out there we haven't found out, who is probably as strong or stronger than goku.

A Mutant? Doubtful. Gohan would be the most powerful superbeing on Earth in the Marvel universe. Their is no mutant that is this powerful, well Franklin Richards(a god like mutant? FF writers went to far with that) If I want to see god beings, then leave that characters like Galactus, the Celestials or the Living Tribuna, but humans in genera should just have a sense of morality to them, and not some god like being who can create plantes and whole races out of thin air.

[GammaBeast]

Originally posted by X-Ray
how bout the android from the justice league cartoon who can duplicate ppls' powers ...

He could duplicate their powers, but how well would he use them? Saiyans become more powerful by recovering from battle and injuries, were he to beat them they would just come back stronger. Also in case you didn't notice their constantly beating people "stronger" than them, so and android on equal footing would be nothing.

Gohan isn't as powerful as everyone seems to think, he got a huge boost after the cell saga when his powers were permanently unlocked, but other than that he's nothing without someone to hold his hand. Goku and Picollo had to walk him through training, and Goku had to teach him how to become a super saiyan, everyone else did it on their own.

[Imperium]

Nobody could give Goku a good fight in the DC or Marvel universe short of some lame cosmological being.

[Shyair]

Originally posted by MJB
A Mutant? Doubtful. Gohan would be the most powerful superbeing on Earth in the Marvel universe. Their is no mutant that is this powerful, well Franklin Richards(a god like mutant? FF writers went to far with that) If I want to see god beings, then leave that characters like Galactus, the Celestials or the Living Tribuna, but humans in genera should just have a sense of morality to them, and not some god like being who can create plantes and whole races out of thin air.

Franklin Richards -is- a Celestial.

[Lobo]

Amazo the android from Justice league not only duplicates peoples powers but also evolves past there weaknesses

[Proteus-X312]

Originally posted by MJB
Goku is a powerful character, and I'm looking in terms of power, and not who's a better character. Sure some of the DBZ universe is hokey, but some other aspects of it kicks @ss.

Goku vs Silver Surfer: Surfer would win, but it'll be a good fight.

Goku vs Dr Doom: We all know Doom is far to cunning for Goku, despite Goku being vastly more powerrful then doom.

Goku vs Doomsday: Man this is a tuff one, but i'm leaning towards DD.

Goku vs Dr Strange: As strong as Goku is, I think his power would be useless against a mystical assult on the level that Strange can generate.

Goku vs Thanos: Thanos can go at it with the Surfer, and he 's pretty smart to, so I'll give it to Thanos.

Goku is just an amazingly powerful character, and in terms of raw power, he has most of the characters beat in a one on one fight. Now I'm talking heroes like Superman, Xmen, or Thor. I don't consider beings like Galactus or The Specter in Goku's league. I'm sticking to mortel characters and demi gods along the lines of Thor. I agree with you about Goku vs.Dr.Doom.The way I see Doom would try to figure a way to harness the power that Goku has,and also try to break down his weaknesses.I also agree with you about Dr.Strange.His mystical abilities seem far too superior against someone who is only using raw strength and brains to win the fight.Gladiator may be able to win,but his powers are based on his own self-confidence.If he happens to doubt himself during the fight then he's done for and Goku will take him.If any of you guys remember an issue of Uncanny X-Men where Cannonball fought Gladiator.Cannonball won because Gladiator had doubted himself.Then Cannonball managed to expand his blastin' field and absorb the impact of his punch,then Cannonball wailed on him and snagged the victory.

[Proteus-X312]

I would say Bishop too,but he can't absorb energy on the same level as Goku is dishing out.Maybe he could absorb a kamehameha wave but he would have to release the energy as many times as he absorbs it to keep from possibly incinerating himself.I'm not exactly sure but.I think Bishop starts to automatically drain some of the energy he absorbs.But even with this he won't stand a chance.Franklin Richards.With all of his psychic prowess could Goku even lay a finger on him?Nope.Phoenix.Same case with this one,could'nt even touch her.Hulk.Goku is far faster than the Hulk but if Goku stopped moving fast even for a second then the Hulk could anticipate his moves and defend himself and then we all know what that means,HULK SMASH!!!!!.Superman.Heat vision vs Spirit Bomb,you do the math.There really is'nt anyone in DC that could give Goku a good fight and win.Marvel there are so many characters that could give him a run for his money and have him running home crying to Chi-Chi.

[Guyverjay]

Goku has telepathic and telekinetic powers also (as do alot of other characters including Cell, freiza and piccollo)



No psychic is beating him using telepathy alone, infact none of the jokers mentioned in this thread could beat him (barring cosmic god types)

[Proteus-X312]

I'm not the most knowledgeable when it comes to DBZ but I don't remember Goku having any telekinetic powers.He does telepathic powers as he's able to communicate with others over vast distances.

[Proteus-X312]

The reason why so many of us are placing the cosmic god types here is because there is only a handful of mutant and non-mutant characters in the marvel universe who could possibly beat Goku.So in comes Silver Surfer and Thanos or others that could beat Goku.

[GammaBeast]

Originally posted by Proteus-X312
I'm not the most knowledgeable when it comes to DBZ but I don't remember Goku having any telekinetic powers.He does telepathic powers as he's able to communicate with others over vast distances.

Basically their flight is telekinesis, they lift themselves using the energy in their body. Frieza used this power to lift a small mountain.

[spider-jide]

Goku is a saiyan and to my knowledge all saiyans are cosmic, that said they're on a cosmic level however, i agree people like thanos and silver surfer could definately give goku a run for his money.

[spider-jide]

Pitting humans/superhumans or low-level mutants is almost futile to put up against someone like goku.

[Proteus-X312]

Originally posted by GammaBeast
Basically their flight is telekinesis, they lift themselves using the energy in their body. Frieza used this power to lift a small mountain. Okay then.I see they must use some kind of mental abilities to fly or communicate with others.As I said before there are only a handful of those in the Marvel Universe that could take on Goku.Forget about the humans or low-level mutants.I have to say that only.Phoenix,Franklin Richards,Hulk,Silver Surfer,Thanos,Dr.Strange,I'm sure there a couple more but that's pretty much it.

[spider-jide]

when it comes to strength Hulk is stronger than goku imo but overall Goku would decimate hulk.

[Proteus-X312]

Hulk is not that dumb so he would have to know that his opponent is faster so I think that the Hulk would after a while anticipate his moves and snag the win.

[GammaBeast]

What if Goku used instant transmission? Could Hulk anticipate someone moving at the speed of light? Goku is a skilled enough fighter to make his moves hard to predict too.

[GAMMA MONSTER]

well Hulk has beaten celestial leval people before it depends wich Hulk

[GammaBeast]

Yeah, but remember the saiyans have atomized people with durability surpassing the Hulks (remember it's his healing not his durability that makes him so hard to kill). If Goku atomized him their wouldn't be anything left to regenerate.

[GAMMA MONSTER]

i dont think their last are as powerful as the matterantimatter atraction wich Hulk overcame dident that blow a hole through galacticus.plus he took galxy masters blast

[GammaBeast]

The Hulk's been seriously hurt before, like when Vector fried most of his skin off, and Vector is nowhere near Goku. Goku could easily atomize the Hulk, he has atomized people far more durable than the Hulk.

[GAMMA MONSTER]

vector repels matter i doesnt have to do with how duriblke Hulk is or not vector repels matter instantly.is not like you can resiss it without an energy feild

[GAMMA MONSTER]

vector repels matter i doesnt have to do with how durible Hulk is or not vector repels matter instantly.is not like you can resiss it without an energy feild

[GammaBeast]

So your saying the Hulk's body would withstand a full force blast from Goku?

[GAMMA MONSTER]

im saying it depends on how pissed Hulk is. and which Hulk is it

[GammaBeast]

Depending on what point Goku is in the DB storyline that changes. If we're talking the end of DB-GT then I doubt any Hulk could survive that regardless of how angry he is, at the end of GT Goku could have wiped out the entire universe.

[Guyverjay]

Originally posted by Proteus-X312
Hulk is not that dumb so he would have to know that his opponent is faster so I think that the Hulk would after a while anticipate his moves and snag the win.

Oh please we are talking about someone is is arguably the greatest martial artist in the history of fiction and you think the Hulk could anticipate his moves???

Imagine Bruce Lee with the power of the silver surfer and you have a fraction of what Goku can do.

[GammaBeast]

Originally posted by guyverjay
Oh please we are talking about someone is is arguably the greatest martial artist in the history of fiction and you think the Hulk could anticipate his moves???

Imagine Bruce Lee with the power of the silver surfer and you have a fraction of what Goku can do.

Very true, he has surpassed every master he's ever had, including the Kai's who have been practicing Martial Arts for eons. I doubt the Hulk could anticipate his moves.

[Proteus-X312]

Eventually instant transmission will be a little predictable.Once your opponent can predict your moves then it's over.I'm biased to the marvel characters anyway so of course I would choose Hulk over Goku.

[GammaBeast]

How can it be predictable? He can instantly make himself be anywhere he needs to be. Are you assuming there will be some kind of pattern to his teleportations? Even then, could Hulk pick it up enough to predict his next destination and time? I doubt it, and keep in mind I'm a huge Hulk fan.

[Guyverjay]

Originally posted by Proteus-X312
Eventually instant transmission will be a little predictable.Once your opponent can predict your moves then it's over.I'm biased to the marvel characters anyway so of course I would choose Hulk over Goku.

1) How often does he actually use IT during a fight?

Not that often because quite frankly he doesn't have to, he fights at super speed anyway. He isn't like Superman who couldn't fight with super speecd if his life depended on it.

2)Even if you knew he was going to do it how could you stop him? Er I know he going to reappear at the speed of light somewhere around this area and either punch me a 100 times, kick me 100 times or hurl a 100 fireball at me. So what? I know thats what he going to do but unless I'm as fast as he is there isn't a damn thing I can do about it. Its not like I can even attempt to follow his movements because he's teleporting everywhere.

3) and as I said Goku is a martial artist. You can't predict their moves unless you're of similar skill yourself. Even Captain america has shown to be able to use the Hulks strength against him using simple Judo moves. Of course the Hulk wasn't hurt in the slightest. But imagine if you gave Captain america class 100 strength and light speed. He'd kick the Hulks (and everyone elses) ass all over the place. In fact that is what happened in Contest of champions 2. Rogue (taken over by the brood) had Captain americas fighting skills along with the Hulks strength and she was kicking everyone ass all over the place.

[Acro]

The only character that I can think of that could defeat Goku is actually my own character; Acro. But defeating Goku isn´t quite right in this scenario as it would more be a dirty trick to get him out of everyones hair. Acro simply tricks Goku to come at him and when he does he opens a time/space-portal that sends Goku 700 years into the future, 200 lightyears away from Earth.

But as for fighting him Acro could withstand a few punches and perhaps survive for 30 seconds.

[GammaBeast]

Goku may not be the smartest person in the world, but he is a genius fighter. He wouldn't be so easily tricked into a direct charge.

[Proteus-X312]

OKAY,DAMMIT.Goku wins already.I was about to get angry and you would'nt like me when I'm angry.

[GAMMA MONSTER]

Originally posted by GammaBeast
Depending on what point Goku is in the DB storyline that changes. If we're talking the end of DB-GT then I doubt any Hulk could survive that regardless of how angry he is, at the end of GT Goku could have wiped out the entire universe.

what Hulk is it cause there havebeen a few who could give goku a pretty good run no matter what storyline he was in

[Guyverjay]

No GM Goku at the end of DBGT was immortal and probably over 200 years old (constantly training and getting stronger day after day) and is merged with the Dragonballs. He would take care of the Hulk while eating breakfast with his eyes closed and with both his arms tied behind his back:D

[GammaBeast]

GM you don't seem to grasp the awesome power Goku had at the end of GT. He would wipe out any Hulk before the fight even begins.

[Dark Carnage]

Would saying Goku at the end of GT is like Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet a good enough comparison to get the idea of his power?

[GammaBeast]

Basically aside from being immortal he has the power to destroy the entire universe and everything in it.

An immortal Saiyan is a god, since their strength sky rockets when they recover from great injury, being immortal means they can have the crap beaten out of them and just come back stronger than ever.

[Guyverjay]

Yeah and Immortal in DBZ means just that. Not you can be still be killed (like thor). Example = Garlic Junior

[GAMMA MONSTER]

Originally posted by GammaBeast
GM you don't seem to grasp the awesome power Goku had at the end of GT. He would wipe out any Hulk before the fight even begins.
dude, dont lecture me about GT.i started reading when iw as six i know the power goku has. listen to what im saying Hulk has no limit so there is a point eventualy where he could beat goku .not that he could know but there is still that point.any living tribunal owns him easily

[GammaBeast]

Originally posted by GAMMA MONSTER
dude, dont lecture me about GT.i started reading when iw as six i know the power goku has. listen to what im saying Hulk has no limit so there is a point eventualy where he could beat goku .not that he could know but there is still that point.any living tribunal owns him easily

Normally I'm on your side in these hulk debates, but not this time.

First off the fight would be over before the Hulk could even get slightly angry.

Secondly the Hulks physical strength increasing would be useless against a being like SS4 Goku since he doesn't even need to be in the same galaxy to attack the Hulk. How will the Hulk attack something millions of miles away?

Thirdly it would take a looooong time for the Hulk to reach that level of physical strength, even then Goku still has his energy attacks and a myriad of other abilities at his disposal.

Fourthly even if the Hulk did surpass him in terms of physical strength, Goku is a far superior fighter, and his speed dwarfs old jade jaws.

Look I love the Hulk as much as you do, but you've got to face the fact that this isn't even a contest. It would be over before it began.

Also keep in mind Goku has no limit either, his body can also grow in strength, and if he needed to he could create a spirit bomb and absorb it into his body for more energy.

[GAMMA MONSTER]

Originally posted by GammaBeast
Normally I'm on your side in these hulk debates, but not this time.

First off the fight would be over before the Hulk could even get slightly angry.

Secondly the Hulks physical strength increasing would be useless against a being like SS4 Goku since he doesn't even need to be in the same galaxy to attack the Hulk. How will the Hulk attack something millions of miles away?

Thirdly it would take a looooong time for the Hulk to reach that level of physical strength, even then Goku still has his energy attacks and a myriad of other abilities at his disposal.

Fourthly even if the Hulk did surpass him in terms of physical strength, Goku is a far superior fighter, and his speed dwarfs old jade jaws.

Look I love the Hulk as much as you do, but you've got to face the fact that this isn't even a contest. It would be over before it began.

Also keep in mind Goku has no limit either, his body can also grow in strength, and if he needed to he could create a spirit bomb and absorb it into his body for more energy. look i never meant Hulk can beat him i said there would be a point where he could.and wich Hulk is it.
no offence GammaBeast i respect you greatly

[GAMMA MONSTER]

but anyway living tribual kills goku with a thought

[Guyverjay]

Nope sorry GM but the LT power only extends to his own multiverse so his power wouldn't work in the DBZ universe. Of course if Goku was in the Marvel universe then LT would blink him out:D

Also GT was never manga so how could you have read it:confused:

[GAMMA MONSTER]

imk sorry i meant read dbz watched dbgt

[GammaBeast]

I don't think there is a point where Hulk could ever beat him, since as I said he could just wipe out whatever solar system Hulk is in from lightyears away.

[Guyverjay]

Tis true but Goku would never do such a thing anyway.

People underestimate gokus physical strength because its not measured like marvel charcters are. But I remember when Cell went for his warm up before the cell games and went out into space started punching asteriods. He then stops one HUGE asteriod casually with one hand and obliterates it into pieces.

Also during Gokus fight with cell just the force of Goku throwing a punch and a kick(moving his limb through the air ) was making mountains shatter

[GAMMA MONSTER]

rocks not moutains and superman did that with doomsday

[GammaBeast]

Originally posted by GAMMA MONSTER
rocks not moutains and superman did that with doomsday

How does what supes did pertain to this discussion?

[Guyverjay]

What supes Dooms fight are we talking about here?

I don't remember superman doing any such thing

Mountains/really Huge rocks tomato tamato. What do you think mountains are comprised of?

[GAMMA MONSTER]

because theey were only sbout 20 feet tall.anywayim done here no offence meant to anybody

[Guyverjay]

Bah they were bigger than twenty feet:o

[Proteus-X312]

From all of you guys comments it looks like Goku will stomp supes into pavement.So much for the son or Jor'El.

[Kmack]

Phoenix, Silver Surfer, King Thor, and probably Hulk

[Kroc1138]

PreCrisis Superman W/ Sword of Superman.

[Guyverjay]

Who could beat End of GT goku with an unlimited amount of senzu beans?;)

[Lobo]

Who could eat more Goku or Homer Simpson?

[GAMMA MONSTER]

frilock from aqua teen hunger force would own goku

[Guyverjay]

Bah Goku only STOPS eating when the food has run out:D

[Odin's Lapdog]

Originally posted by guyverjay
Who could beat End of GT goku with an unlimited amount of senzu beans?;) chi chi:o

[MJB]

Originally posted by Kmackintrush
Phoenix, Silver Surfer, King Thor, and probably Hulk

Silver surfer probably, but the rest no way. Jean only has limited usage of the Phoenix force when she is in control of its power. People seem to forget that.

[ang_hulk]

Hulk would beat goku and everyone else. Everyone in the db universe gets stronger after a fight but huk gets stronger during a fight. The z fighters dont have healing factors and they can get sick. hulk has a healing fastor and doesnt get sick.

[Omega Red]

Originally posted by Lazarus440
batman but thats only with prep time.


Even with prep time Bats dont stand a chance

[GammaBeast]

Originally posted by ang_hulk
Hulk would beat goku and everyone else. Everyone in the db universe gets stronger after a fight but huk gets stronger during a fight. The z fighters dont have healing factors and they can get sick. hulk has a healing fastor and doesnt get sick.

True they get stronger after the fight, but hulk needs time to gain strength. Goku even without powering up is so far beyond the hulk its not even funny, and I doubt old greenskins healing factor would save him from the entire planet blowing up around him.

I also doubt even the silver surfer could handle any of the Z fighters, let alone Goku.

[GAMMA MONSTER]

are we talking non super saiyan? cause Hulk would waste him then

[Omega Red]

Originally posted by GAMMA MONSTER
are we talking non super saiyan? cause Hulk would waste him then

No they are talking powered up saiyn

[GAMMA MONSTER]

okay then i sall not coment

[Knightsaber Priss]

Hmmmmm......I'd have to say......Jon Peters.

[Bapman]

Personally I think CAPTAIN MARVEL aka GENIS-Vell
Can defeat GOKU without much of a problem.
So can ION... PARALLAX...
Then ones who can go toe to toe with GOKU but would probably lose are current SUPERMAN, HYPERION.

Then... the ones who can go toe toe againt GOKU n 50 / 50 chance are...

OMEGA Iceman, Martian Manhunter, Nate Gray / Cable at their full potential.

Yup... tht's it.

[casualspidey]

hey i just joined this forum..but ive been reading these for like several months just too lazy to register haha.neways goku will blast the !!!! out of superman...my god..just think about when goku turns super sayian jin and make a freakin spirit bomb and blast that !!!!! in superman's face..hahahaha !!!!! would be awesome

[Bapman]

You're a MORON !!! HA! HA! HA! :D

:( No really... you Are !!!













P.S. Welcome to HYPE boards.

[0neDisturbedSOB]

Superman would kick Goku's ass hands down. Why? you might ask...well it's very simple, everyone in the DBZ universe seems to announce exactly what they're going to do way before they do it, example "I'm going to hit him with a spirit bomb, and then I'm going to give him everything I've got until I don't have anything left" so you see, Superman would know well in advance by Goku's horrible dialouge what he's planning on doing and have plenty of time to hammer him into the ground.

[casualspidey]

wtf..kinda shnit is that man..goku never annouces his plans...u ass..he thinks them..

[casualspidey]

Originally posted by Bapman
You're a MORON !!! HA! HA! HA! :D

:( No really... you Are !!













P.S. Welcome to HYPE boards.


why am i a moron cuz im right

[Odin's Lapdog]

I don't think a spirit bomb would affect Supes cause his heart is pure, and that sort of attack would only work against villains.

[Superbot400]

Well Goku sure can beat Superman. I meant come on, Goku is just like Superman. They both overpowered.

[Superbot400]

The andoids punch Goku before he had the chance to eat and Heatlh. HulK healing factor too, Which get stronger. How can Goku beat a person who can get stronger in rage? A person who can so angry that the person is toally invulnerable? Hulk can beat Goku, King Thor can, Cosmic Spidey can, Thanos can, The Runner can, Dr. Doom(stealing powers), Juggernut(8th day),Sliver Surfer can,Green lantern can. i don't hate dbz , just that there people who can beat Goku. In the of GT, Goku is more overpowering than Superman. Plus Goku can beat Superman too.

[0neDisturbedSOB]

There is no way Goku could beat Superman, I'm sorry it just wouldn't happen.

[0neDisturbedSOB]

Originally posted by casualspidey
wtf..kinda shnit is that man..goku never annouces his plans...u ass..he thinks them..

Watch the show man, the dialogue is f**king horrible...the guys announce what they're going to do before they do it, it's pretty ridiculous. That show's dialogue is what really kills it. I watched one of the DBZ movies the other night and one of the characters said "I'm going to hit him with everything I've got until he can't take it anymore"...what the f**k is that? it's almost funny.

Superman would kick Goku's ass end of story.

[DarkHelmet]

Even if Superman was as strong as Goku, he doen't have the martial arts training. Goku would own him.

Both are kind of the same. Aliens who were raised on Earth, blasted off from their planet right berfore they blew up. Only real difference is their races. Kryptonians were a peaceful, industrious society, whereas Sayians were all mercenaries, or if you want to get technical, involved in Real Estate.

[GammaBeast]

Originally posted by 0neDisturbedSOB
Watch the show man, the dialogue is f**king horrible...the guys announce what they're going to do before they do it, it's pretty ridiculous. That show's dialogue is what really kills it. I watched one of the DBZ movies the other night and one of the characters said "I'm going to hit him with everything I've got until he can't take it anymore"...what the f**k is that? it's almost funny.

Superman would kick Goku's ass end of story.

How is that saying exactly what their going to do? Thats like saying since I told you Im going to beat the crap out of you you know all the moves Im going to do. Which movie did you watch? Even if supes knew all of Goku's moves he still wouldn't stand a chance, Goku's powers are on a whole other level. I doubt Supes could survive a blast capable of wiping out the galaxy he happens to be in.

The andoids punch Goku before he had the chance to eat and Heatlh. HulK healing factor too, Which get stronger. How can Goku beat a person who can get stronger in rage? A person who can so angry that the person is toally invulnerable? Hulk can beat Goku, King Thor can, Cosmic Spidey can, Thanos can, The Runner can, Dr. Doom(stealing powers), Juggernut(8th day),Sliver Surfer can,Green lantern can. i don't hate dbz , just that there people who can beat Goku. In the of GT, Goku is more overpowering than Superman. Plus Goku can beat Superman too.

Hulk requires TIME to get to his upper levels of strength, Goku can at will call on powers dwarfing the Hulks. It would be over before the hulk could do anything.

I have said it before and I'll say it again, short of the Living Tribunal or the Spectre I doubt anyone could take Goku at his best. At his peak he was not only Immortal(in the dbz universe this term actually means he is incapable of death), but he could wipe out the entire universe at will.

[0neDisturbedSOB]

No but if I tell you "I'm going to give you everything I have until you can't take it anymore" you pretty much know that I'm going to hit you with full power, and you could prepare yourself for such. Goku's spirit bomb wouldn't do jack against Superman since he has a pure heart....Superman would pound Goku at lightspeed. Knowing martial arts doesn't mean you can automatically kick anyone's ass, it would be over for Goku before it even started.

Now I do think that Goku....as ridiculously overpowered as he is, would beat the Hulk.

[Odin's Lapdog]

Originally posted by 0neDisturbedSOB
There is no way Goku could beat Superman, I'm sorry it just wouldn't happen. speed and strength, i would say they are gonna be fairly even

but as for projectiles, supes doesn't have any great ones i don't think.

Also given time goku would eventually be able to beat him given the fact that he does get stronger with every bout.

Time is on his side.

he may not win the first couple (debatable) but eventually he'll start winning them all.

[Odin's Lapdog]

Originally posted by 0neDisturbedSOB
Watch the show man, the dialogue is f**king horrible...the guys announce what they're going to do before they do it, it's pretty ridiculous. I think i understand what you mean here, if you are talking about the launching of projectiles, then all the characters (especially the kamehameha using ones) do tend to give you some fair bit of waring as to what's coming next....

maybe it's done for dramatical effect, but if it's true to life then there's a lot that can be done to counter act in a given situation.

Plus attacking them at that point is where they would be at their most venurable, and would cause severe damage due to the lost of a vast amount of energy.

[Superbot400]

Well Mindless Hulk Increase the fastest in rage. He surpass Goku in no time . How do you know that Goku is going too kill Hulk? Immortal, He still can be K.O. Destroy a Universe, a couple of people can do that too you know. I still think Goku can be defeat by a few people. quite a few Cosmic being and couple earth hero can.:p

[Superbot400]

Some Marvel and Dc character can beat Goku.

[GammaBeast]

Care to actually name a few? Short of the Living Tribunal I'm not willing to put many above Goku. True Mindless Hulk is immensly powerful, but how is he even going to touch Goku? Goku can teleport into space at the speed of light and just wipe the planet out.

Also aside from the LT, how many people can actually destroy an entire universe? Not many, Goku could easily wipe out most if not all of the Marvel/DC characters (minus people like LT and Spectre because they are incapable of being destroyed).

[0neDisturbedSOB]

Originally posted by Odin's Lapdog
I think i understand what you mean here, if you are talking about the launching of projectiles, then all the characters (especially the kamehameha using ones) do tend to give you some fair bit of waring as to what's coming next....

maybe it's done for dramatical effect, but if it's true to life then there's a lot that can be done to counter act in a given situation.

Plus attacking them at that point is where they would be at their most venurable, and would cause severe damage due to the lost of a vast amount of energy.

You nailed it on the head.

[GammaBeast]

They fire plenty of energy attacks without announcing a thing. How often have they just waved their hand and set off a huge explosion of energy effortlessly?

Vegeta after being possessed by Babidi simply but his hands in front of him and fired a blast that took out most of the city and caused an immense ecplosion, mushroom cloud and all.

Also in the saiyan saga (waaay before Goku's peak, when he was far weaker) Vegeta destroyed an entire planet just by shooting energy from his index and middle fingers, all without speaking at all.

[Odin's Lapdog]

Originally posted by GammaBeast
They fire plenty of energy attacks without announcing a thing. How often have they just waved their hand and set off a huge explosion of energy effortlessly?

Vegeta after being possessed by Babidi simply but his hands in front of him and fired a blast that took out most of the city and caused an immense ecplosion, mushroom cloud and all.

Also in the saiyan saga (waaay before Goku's peak, when he was far weaker) Vegeta destroyed an entire planet just by shooting energy from his index and middle fingers, all without speaking at all. The planet destroying thing has always botyhered me.

ALthough Vegeta caused that planet do explode, i've always believed that it wasn't the blast itself that did it, but it was the collision of the moon with the planet that caused it to go critical with such little effort from Vegeta.

I've always reasoned that somehow the blast increased the gravitational pull of the planet causing the moon to severly leave it's orbit and crash down on the planet.

To be honest i doubt that planet was that big anyway. Size of planets must be taken into consideration.

Even Frieza's blast took a while to destroy planet Namek (alright, so he needed to buy himself some time to escape but still the projectile type was far far larger), but then again we don't know how big it was as a planet relative to earth.


There are many more characters in marvel that could survive an explosion that could wipe out half a city.

If the DB guys wanna make a IMPACT, they're gonna have to pull out the big guns like signature Kamehameha's, Big Blast etc...

again, these moves take time to charge up significantly, especially earth destroying ones.

[GammaBeast]

Originally posted by Odin's Lapdog
If the DB guys wanna make a IMPACT, they're gonna have to pull out the big guns like signature Kamehameha's, Big Blast etc...

again, these moves take time to charge up significantly, especially earth destroying ones.

Not necessarily. The size of the blast is not relative to it's power. When Vegeta destroyed planet Arlia in the Saiyan Saga his power level was somewhere around 18,000. So that means an energy attack of around that level is capable of wiping out a planet(if you want to get picky we'll say it requires 36,000 which was what his Galick Gun attack was at when he fired it, which would have wiped out the earth).

Now after his first super saiyan transformation Goku had a power level exceeding 20,000,000 and he went up exponentially from there.

By the end of GT not only was he immortal, but he had a power level in the Billions. So I seriously doubt he would have to put any effort into wiping out the earth or our solar system.

If you include the movies Brolly wiped an entire Galaxy way before he even went SSJ. His power at this point wouldn't be anywhere near what Goku and Vegeta reached at the end of DBZ.

[Superbot400]

That true, Hulk vs Goku is the same as Superman. Hulk is still alive after the beating, Hulk once surpassing Goku, Goku is Doom.

[War Lord]

Although this has probably been said before, in regards to Superman, it probably depends on which Superman as well. I don't think the after-crisis supes could take Goku after SS2. The before-crisis superman could probably take Goku any time prior to DBGT because he was so over-powered. He could push planets around, destroy suns, and such. His heat vision would have been formidable by any standards.

[GammaBeast]

Originally posted by Superbot400
That true, Hulk vs Goku is the same as Superman. Hulk is still alive after the beating, Hulk once surpassing Goku, Goku is Doom.

Im not sure about that. Hulk would need at least have on cell left over to regenerate, one would assume a blast annihilating a universe going off near you would atomize, maybe more than that.

The Maestro was able to come back from atomization because he absorbed the radiation around him over decades, but in this case there would be nothing left to absorb.

[Superbot400]

Hulk still alive and very angry he wins. He isn't, He loses, normaly Goku doesn't kill people unless, there bad guys. depends

[GammaBeast]

If he saw the Hulk as a monster or a real threat he would probably kill him.

[Kroc1138]

Originally posted by 0neDisturbedSOB
There is no way Goku could beat Superman, I'm sorry it just wouldn't happen. Esp. if you are Talking about PreCrisis Superman.

[Kroc1138]

Originally posted by DarkHelmet
Even if Superman was as strong as Goku, he doen't have the martial arts training. Goku would own him.

Both are kind of the same. Aliens who were raised on Earth, blasted off from their planet right berfore they blew up. Only real difference is their races. Kryptonians were a peaceful, industrious society, whereas Sayians were all mercenaries, or if you want to get technical, involved in Real Estate. PreCrisis Supes would totally own Goku in a fight, w/o martial arts.

[GammaBeast]

Kroc how much of this thread have you actually read? Even pre-crisis Supes wouldn't be able to take the Final Goku from GT. The Universe itself would be destroyed including any suns to fuel Supes powers.

[Kroc1138]

Originally posted by GammaBeast
Kroc how much of this thread have you actually read? Even pre-crisis Supes wouldn't be able to take the Final Goku from GT. The Universe itself would be destroyed including any suns to fuel Supes powers. Ah but You forget that PreCrisis Supes Has the sword of Superman, which from what I know makes him Omnipotent. I'll put a Link up on it soon.

[War Lord]

Sword of Superman really kicks ass.

Although I don't know what that is.

[GammaBeast]

Not to be redundant, but even with that sword would supes really survive the fight? Thats basically saying that the durability of Supes alone exceeds the collective durability of the rest of the universe.

[Kroc1138]

Originally posted by GammaBeast
Not to be redundant, but even with that sword would supes really survive the fight? Thats basically saying that the durability of Supes alone exceeds the collective durability of the rest of the universe. OMNIPOTENT is pretty much self explanitory.

[Kroc1138]

Oh here's (http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=100324&perpage=25&pagenumber=2) the thread where I posted some stuff on Silverage Superman.

[Superbot400]

Originally posted by GammaBeast
If he saw the Hulk as a monster or a real threat he would probably kill him.

well that true, Maybe very angry from a fight. I wouldn't think that Goku kill him. Maybe he just might let the fight dragged on. Like with the Kid Buu fight. Anyway Goku vs Pre Crisis Superman would be a toughie. Goku or Superman just aren't sure. But I think Goku should win.

[War Lord]

Originally posted by Superbot400
well that true, Maybe very angry from a fight. I wouldn't think that Goku kill him. Maybe he just might let the fight dragged on. Like with the Kid Buu fight. Anyway Goku vs Pre Crisis Superman would be a toughie. Goku or Superman just aren't sure. But I think Goku should win.

Why "should" Goku win? Is that because things in the universe wouldn't sit right?

[Shyair]

Supes would have his ass handed to him. Very easily. Pre Crisis or not. Goku would take the first few hits, without much damage, until Supes learns not to hold back, which would place Kakarotto into the mood for a real fun battle. Honestly, I see Gokuu handing supes his ass without even going super.

[GammaBeast]

Where does it say anything about him being Omnipotent? The description:

"Holding it, Superman found himself expanding, spreading across the winds of the universe, the whole history of creation flooding his mind. His consciousness expanded, he was becoming an all-seeing, all knowing Protector"

Sounds more like Omniscient than Omnipotent. The only really Omnipotent being in the DC universe is the Spectre.

[Shyair]

Originally posted by GammaBeast
Where does it say anything about him being Omnipotent? The description:

"Holding it, Superman found himself expanding, spreading across the winds of the universe, the whole history of creation flooding his mind. His consciousness expanded, he was becoming an all-seeing, all knowing Protector"

Sounds more like Omniscient than Omnipotent. The only really Omnipotent being in the DC universe is the Spectre.

yep

[War Lord]

However, usually if one is omniscient they are also usually omnipotent.

[Kroc1138]

Originally posted by GammaBeast
Where does it say anything about him being Omnipotent? The description:

"Holding it, Superman found himself expanding, spreading across the winds of the universe, the whole history of creation flooding his mind. His consciousness expanded, he was becoming an all-seeing, all knowing Protector"

Sounds more like Omniscient than Omnipotent. The only really Omnipotent being in the DC universe is the Spectre. Well think about it. PreCrisis Silver age Superman by all intents and purposes was considered nearly omnipotent, and to a degree was unbeatable. Throw in the sword and then it's taken way over the top. (although the description is vague) So I can't really say how powerful Supes is. Even if you are right, omnicience is all that Sups needs anyway, since he's way overpowered in that point in time.

As for Goku at the Height of his power (which I believe is SSJ 4) vs PreCrisis Superman. Supes would win easily, since he's a lot faster stronger and there's the pesky time travel copout.
Supes could: Juggle Planets, extingiush a star by sneezing, and I heard he crushed a black hole, and reignited a star with heat vision,plus destroy moons by punching them and a whole list of silly things that I hear about from other debates on this matter. Goku loses badly...

[Kroc1138]

Originally posted by Shyair
Supes would have his ass handed to him. Very easily. Pre Crisis or not. Goku would take the first few hits, without much damage, until Supes learns not to hold back, which would place Kakarotto into the mood for a real fun battle. Honestly, I see Gokuu handing supes his ass without even going super. Are you nuts!?!?! PreCrisis Supes is far stronger and faster than Goku at his most powerful SSJ level. Juggling planet and blowing out star doesn't seem to be anything that Goku is capable of doing strengthwise. As for other powers that's open to debate.

[GammaBeast]

Originally posted by Kroc1138
As for Goku at the Height of his power (which I believe is SSJ 4) vs PreCrisis Superman. Supes would win easily, since he's a lot faster stronger and there's the pesky time travel copout.
Supes could: Juggle Planets, extingiush a star by sneezing, and I heard he crushed a black hole, and reignited a star with heat vision,plus destroy moons by punching them and a whole list of silly things that I hear about from other debates on this matter. Goku loses badly...

I think you are seriously underestimating Goku at his peak. There is never really a measurement of Goku's physical strength, but considering the many amazing feats of strength he pulled in dragonball when his power level was in the double digits, multiply that a billion times over or so and he's no slouch.

And to say Goku's strongest energy attacks would be like saying Superman alone is more durable than the rest of the universe put together. And it's not like Supes could dodge such an attack either, there would be no where to run.

Goku's body at it's peak has withstood blasts capable of destroying planets several times over without so much as a scratch on his body, so I have no doubt he could take Supes best shots.

As for Supermans speed how often does supes ever use his maximum speed while fighting? Goku can instant transmission at the speed of light and I don't recall Supes ever exceeding or even coming close to that in an actual fight.

[Kroc1138]

Originally posted by GammaBeast
I think you are seriously underestimating Goku at his peak. There is never really a measurement of Goku's physical strength, but considering the many amazing feats of strength he pulled in dragonball when his power level was in the double digits, multiply that a billion times over or so and he's no slouch.

And to say Goku's strongest energy attacks would be like saying Superman alone is more durable than the rest of the universe put together. And it's not like Supes could dodge such an attack either, there would be no where to run.

Goku's body at it's peak has withstood blasts capable of destroying planets several times over without so much as a scratch on his body, so I have no doubt he could take Supes best shots.

As for Supermans speed how often does supes ever use his maximum speed while fighting? Goku can instant transmission at the speed of light and I don't recall Supes ever exceeding or even coming close to that in an actual fight. Your kidding? Do you know any of the feats the Supes did when he was overpowered. What I listed was only really a sample. Plus TIME TRAVEL. Then there is a list of mental abilities that would possibly give Goku some trouble.Speed is another factor, Supes has been described as being able to move at near limitless speed in those days. (even mentioned in STM)

Point is PreCrisis Supes is pretty much a being that fights extremely powerful beings and wins. That's how the writer wrote him then. Plus I notice that you talk of PreC Supes and PostC supes as if they are one and the same. Your confusing the two.

[GammaBeast]

Enlighten me, what feat did he perform that rivals the power to wipe out universes?

Goku is also a being who fights extremely powerful beings and wins, it's what he does. Beat people who should be stronger than him.

[Kroc1138]

Originally posted by GammaBeast
Enlighten me, what feat did he perform that rivals the power to wipe out universes?

Goku is also a being who fights extremely powerful beings and wins, it's what he does. Beat people who should be stronger than him. I read somewhere that PreC Supes had the power to defeat entropy, which in the DCU has something to do with the end of time. Plus think about the super sneezing feat, if Superman could extinguish a star with a sneeze, It's safe to assume that he could blow out an entire Galaxy, or if the writers wanted to, the universe. It's said the Silver-Age Suoerman is the inspiration for Goku anyway, they are both overpowered. As the writer wrote Him and what I've been reading, Superman could destroy the Universe with brute strength.

Check out this board over here. (http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=43555&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0)

[GammaBeast]

The debate at that forum doesn't sway me at all, it seems to have just died after someone started to mention the powers Super Saiyans have to easily cause destruction on galactic levels.

Not once did anyone mention how powerful Goku actually is at his peak in GT.

And how do you destroy a universe with brute strength? PreC-Supes could individually start wiping out planets and solar systems, but SS4Goku could desintegrate them all at once with a single blast.

[Shyair]

Originally posted by Kroc1138
Are you nuts!?!?! PreCrisis Supes is far stronger and faster than Goku at his most powerful SSJ level. Juggling planet and blowing out star doesn't seem to be anything that Goku is capable of doing strengthwise. As for other powers that's open to debate.

No.
No he isn't. Precrisis Superman isn't even near a fraction of Gokuu's mid level burst. There isn't much supes could do against Gokuu once he gets fired up. Gokuu's powers are above Supe's withstanding capabilities and Gokuu's physical strength outweighs that of Supes, comically. I suggest reading the Manga on DB to DBZ before you mention such things ever again.

[War Lord]

Would Goku's kamehamehahahaheeheehoho wave be considered magical?

[War Lord]

Well would it?

[Nathan]

No, it wouldn't.

[War Lord]

Originally posted by Nathan
No, it wouldn't.

Why not?

I'm not being difficult, but why would a ki attack not be considered magic?

What kind of energy is a magic attack, as defined by DC universe?

I ask since Superman has no natural protection against such attacks.

[GammaBeast]

Here is how I see it, magical attacks can be called out of nothingness.

The Saiyans energy attacks come from bio energy produced by their own bodies. It's similar to the way supes body works, it uses bio energy.

[starwarsfreak]

everyone...................all anime sucks exept cowboybebop,big o,wolfs rain,trigun

[GammaBeast]

Originally posted by starwarsfreak
everyone...................all anime sucks exept cowboybebop,big o,wolfs rain,trigun

Do you have any idea how narrow-minded that makes you sound? Your basically saying that thousands upon thousands of animes suck because they don't fall into your little group of 5. Try watching a few more sometime and broaden your horizons.

Even if you hate it you need to look at this honestly. If your not going to do atleast that please stay out of this debate.

[Kroc1138]

Originally posted by Shyair
No.
No he isn't. Precrisis Superman isn't even near a fraction of Gokuu's mid level burst. There isn't much supes could do against Gokuu once he gets fired up. Gokuu's powers are above Supe's withstanding capabilities and Gokuu's physical strength outweighs that of Supes, comically. I suggest reading the Manga on DB to DBZ before you mention such things ever again. Obviously you haven't read anyof my post or looked at the weblinks I posted. I know my DBZ stuff pretty well so I really don't need to do any reseach. You obviously haven't: Plus provide examples of Goku's feats of strength, speed, etc. that even come close to Supes. You don't do that.

Supes is stronger: in the sense that he can juggle planets, destroy moons with a punch and I hear can crush a Black Hole. That's his strength Alone.

Faster: As for speed. He can travel great distances whitin the blink of an eye. Can Build an underground within seconds!! Plus the fact that he can move at near limtiless speeds. Ref. Superman the Movie.
OH AND ALMOST FORGOT ABOUT TIME TRAVEL!!! Could wipe out the entire saiyan race.

[War Lord]

Even in the post-crisis superman is incredibly strong when he has to be. I found a website some time ago. It's website is something akin to www.starbase.com, unfortunately I can't find it right now. On the website, it quoted that the post-crisis superman could move up to about 125 million tons, if he was prepared to use up all his energy at once. I don't remember
Goku moving even a fraction of that kind of weight.

[GammaBeast]

If thats true it puts him far below the Hulks strength since he liftedn 150 billion tons.

Back to the debate at hand though.

Goku's strength was never really tested, everything he needed to do he was able to do when it really counted.

The fight itself wouldn't just be physical attack to physical attack. Goku's energy attacks would be sufficient to kills pre-crisis supes. Saying Superman could survive it is like saying his durability alone, surpassed the rest of the universe combined. That impossible. And even if it were true every sun in the universe would be destroyed so there would be nothing left to fuel his powers, Goku could just keep attacking him after that and wipe him out.

Are you telling me Supermans body alone is more durable then the rest of the universe combined?

[Kroc1138]

Originally posted by GammaBeast
If thats true it puts him far below the Hulks strength since he liftedn 150 billion tons.

Back to the debate at hand though.

Goku's strength was never really tested, everything he needed to do he was able to do when it really counted.

The fight itself wouldn't just be physical attack to physical attack. Goku's energy attacks would be sufficient to kills pre-crisis supes. Saying Superman could survive it is like saying his durability alone, surpassed the rest of the universe combined. That impossible. And even if it were true every sun in the universe would be destroyed so there would be nothing left to fuel his powers, Goku could just keep attacking him after that and wipe him out.

Are you telling me Supermans body alone is more durable then the rest of the universe combined? Actually yes. That's how he was written. And you are confusing PostCrisis Supes with PreCrisis again. A yellow sun didn't necessarily fuel all of his powers. Actually His strength and Flight are there b/c Krypton is a larger planet and thus had more gravity. The sun gave him extra powers but he didn't need a sun to sustain them.

[XSpidercideX]

I'd say Frieza at 50% is at Post Crisis Supes level. SSJ4 Gogeta...that would be at Pre Crisis Supes level...and Goku after GT, how he is "now", would be way higher, on par with cosmic beings such as the celestials, that is, if the speculations about his power increase is correct...and I like to think they are...I dont think anyone is going to make an official power scale to measure his power by.

[GammaBeast]

Originally posted by Kroc1138
Actually yes. That's how he was written. And you are confusing PostCrisis Supes with PreCrisis again. A yellow sun didn't necessarily fuel all of his powers. Actually His strength and Flight are there b/c Krypton is a larger planet and thus had more gravity. The sun gave him extra powers but he didn't need a sun to sustain them.

Nope, not once have I confused pre/post crisis supes. I see nothing to indicate that pre-crisis supermans durability rivals the combined durability of the rest of the UNIVERSE. Thats every planet, city, race, galaxy etc... in the universe Vs. superman. Sorry, but even Pre-crisis supes wasn't that powerful.

[Kroc1138]

Originally posted by GammaBeast
Nope, not once have I confused pre/post crisis supes. I see nothing to indicate that pre-crisis supermans durability rivals the combined durability of the rest of the UNIVERSE. Thats every planet, city, race, galaxy etc... in the universe Vs. superman. Sorry, but even Pre-crisis supes wasn't that powerful. Yes you have, esp. by saying that he get all of his powers from the sun which is postcrisis. As for you other point I'm willing to prove you wrong.

[Guyverjay]

Bwhahaha Final GT Goku would beat any version of superman for the simple fact that he is IMMORTAL. You can't kill him.

Even if the fight took a 100 years (which it wouldn't) goku would get stronger and stronger until pre crisis supes is beaten.

As for the time travel rubbish. What good would that do? Goku is from a different universe, how the hell would supes even find the planet vegeta let alone kill all the beings living on it (in the past)

[GammaBeast]

Originally posted by Kroc1138
Yes you have, esp. by saying that he get all of his powers from the sun which is postcrisis. As for you other point I'm willing to prove you wrong.

Do me a favor and quote the post where I said all of his powers from the sun. All I said is it fuels his powers, and without the suns there would be nothing left to continually fuel him.

I still ask you to give me a specific example of something showing Pre-crisis supes survived a blast indicating he could survive universal destruction.

[ang_hulk]

HULK and heres why....
So goku grabs the hulk and teleports to space,He doesnt have to let go of goku anything attached to goku goes with him(dont pay attention to whats on the american hacked and slashed shows),Goku would only blow up the planet if he had to and he would only consider having to if hulk was a thret to everyone else,other wise he wouldent do it.Goku cant survive space either so he would have to be quick and even then theres no telling if hulk would let him go.Goku often has become tired,Thats why hes always got senzu beans on him.Now goku whould have to fight long and hard before he decided to do to blow up a planet and whose to say hulk wouldent be strong enough to jump to another? he jumped island to island before and jumped to orbit when he wasnt even that mad.He could also hold on to some debrie and make it somewhere else.Hul would get a a bit more mad every time goku teleported and eventually hulk would catch him(he caught captian americas shield at point blank range) now goku is not a big fan of killing the innocent and banner is an innocent to what hulk does so if goku killed him hed would be killing an innocent man.Its possible to knock ki balls away and hulk would be able to do that just as the rest of the dbz charecters can.As I said hulk has jumped into orbit and made it back fine in fact he jumped to the moon at one point and made it back,If the vacuum got to him he has ways of propelling himself,thunder claps would be his best bet and with the kind of power he would have after a fight with goku if he made it that far they would be like bursts from a rocket enging not to mention the fact that he could push of debrie and slowly make his way or use his breath(remember hed be at an extremely powerful level by now) and blow his way to another planet.Hulk would reach a new level before goku could so hed always have the upper hand and whos to say he wouldent eventually become immune to ki balls all together.Another thing is hulk many incarnations,most of which weve never seen so there is a possiblie that a space hulk exisists somewhere in banners vast mind that would would only be trigerd by hulk being in space(It could have formed out of a fasination of space that banner had at one point to cope with things) and would have no trouble travling through it.Goku All these things aside If goku ended up deciding to teleport hulk out to some planetless part of space that could only mean that goku knew he couldent beat him.

Hulk has the ability to adapt everytime he changes.If goku gianed an advantage with a power or ability hulk had ever seen before hulk would adapt just like he did when he gained the power to see ghosts.Goku has a bad habit of letting his enemys charge up to ther full power and hulk doesnt have one.Goku need time to charge up and hulk isnt very good about giving it to him not to mention the fact that goku gets tired ad hulk doesnt.Goku may have energy bombs and blasts but thats nothing new to hulk.If you remeber gokus final battle(in gt) he almost lost but fused with vegeta to win(This wasnt super sayjin 5!!!) so who knows what would have happend.Its safe to say that hulk would reach heights weve never seen before fighting goku and may even sacr for the first time but with the kinda blows goku can dish out hulk would gain enough strenth and mass that he could melt adamantium with his body heat.Goku has a mind for other things and hes pure of heart and hulk(in the right carnation) doesnt have any of those things and in the dbz world that gives him an advantage.Hulk doesnt need senzu beans and as any dbz fan knows those little green beans are responsible for many victories.Hulk would win but he wouldnt come out good

[RedStrikeForce]

Nobody

[Guyverjay]

LMAO @ ang_hulk

You really have no clue:D

[GammaBeast]

ang_hulk, I don't know what to correct first.

I think I'll start with the jumping. Jumping a few hundred miles from island to island is nothing like jumping hundreds of millions of miles to another planet. Thats assuming his aim is perfect and he actually gets to the planet (which would take months at jumping speed). Also what's to stop Goku from blowing him away mid-jump?

As for the instant transmission thing. Goku could instant transmission behind the hulk, touch him with one finger (thus having the necessary physical contact) then teleport the hulk near the sun or something and teleport again, all this within the course of a few seconds at most (not counting the actual trip to the sun).

How is hulk going to be immune to ki attacks? Thats like saying he can reach a level where no level of attack damages him. If a nuke could tear apart most of his skin Goku could literally vaporize him.

Trust me guys I love the hulk as much as you do, but you need to accept that he has no chance here. True there are no limits to how much his strength can grow, but he needs time grow in strength. Goku isn't a stupid fighter, he would be able to figure out the Hulk's strength is growing and stop the fight right there. Goku is so far beyond the Hulk in terms of power that he would need to be getting angrier for like a week straight to even approach that level of power.

[ang_hulk]

Just like so many before him,hulk could knock a ki attack away.Just as I said the only fight goku fans have is this instant transmission thing and if goku did that he knew he couldent beat him other wise.

[GammaBeast]

In order to knock away a ki attack your ki has to be much higher than that persons. If you could just slap your hand and make a Ki blast go away why didn't Goku just do that to every attack in every battle? Because he couldn't.

The energy in the hulks body is NOTHING compared to the energy flowing within Goku's body, if the Hulk tried to slap it away his hand would be vaporized just before the rest of his body.

[Odin's Lapdog]

why is the hulk still being discussed. at the end of the day, he's just too slow.

and strength and power levels are completely different things. Just because the hulk's strength will continue to rise exponentially throughout a battle does not necessarily mean that his power level will be able to do the same. Although i do think that the hulk is physically strong enough to turn Gogeta back into Goku and Vegeta with a single punch, i doubt he'd ever get the chance to land such a blow on Goku, once, let alone enough times to do any serious damage. He'd just become to bulky and too slow to be a worthy challenge. There are many other characters in marvel or DC that could stand up to this challenge.

[GammaBeast]

I think this debate should go back to Pre-crisis supes. I'm still waiting for something that shows he can withstand a point-blank blast capable of wiping out the entire universe.

[Odin's Lapdog]

if goku uses such an attack, wouldn;t he be destroyed as well??

wouldn't that be a draw just by wiping everything out of existence?

just a thought, i don't feel strongly enough or know enough about supes to defend him, but i just want to query the use of this blast you speak of.

[Tony Montana 04]

No one could even touch Goku.The man's too strong he's on a different level

[Gambit_Fan]

i hate Dragonball but i say Superman, Batman and Green Lantern from DC wouldkick his ass as would Thor, Cyclops, Phoenix, Wolverine from Marvel. There are others i just can't think of them yet

[Odin's Lapdog]

dude, you seriously can't say wolverine batman or cyclops.

[Guyverjay]

He's a gambit fan so what do you expect?:p

[Odin's Lapdog]

haha

nice to have ya back Guyver, haven't seen ya in a while. Your presence was missed:o

catch ya later, i'm off.

[Guyverjay]

No one can mess with this http://img15.photobucket.com/albums/v44/guyverjay/goku1.gif:mad:

Thanks Odin

[War Lord]

He leaves himself open to a judo chop to the solar plexis. If Vegeta is any guide, Saiyans are still vulnerable in the middle or was it the groin that Android 18 hit?

Please don't say it was the groin, that's just dirty pool

[Guyverjay]

Bare in my mind that little bit of training is being done in 50 times the earths gravity

[ang_hulk]

I think hulk vs goku can be answerd with the same explanation givin to gamera vs godzilla,"We have no idea how their powers will effect each other until the big wigs from the studios sit down and decide on a budjet and sing a contract".Hulk could be 100 time stronger than goku and visa versa,adamantium could be immune to ki attacks,goku may have no effect on reptile men and have a major weaknes to supes heat vision and or batarangs.We just dont know.

[Guyverjay]

Thats the pussy way out

[ang_hulk]

wouldent teleporting hulk to the sun and teleporting back be the pussy way out to?

[GammaBeast]

No that would be energy conservation, why bother releasing planet annihalating energy when you can just throw him into the sun and be done with it?

[Superbot400]

I will say this once and will say it again . There is no way of Hulk winning if is he not in very very angry mood!!! Goku would kill him in seconds now, if Hulk was at Goku's level then yeah, there a chance him winning. Otherwise, Hulk dead meat when fighting Goku. As for the Superman, This would be a hard fight to choice who win. This just as worst that argue in Gamefaqs about Goku losing to Superman. Anyway, Goku in the end of Gt, There absoultely postively no way Superman to win this. Trust me on Goku in this would destroy Superman:(. He has not only immortal, but has the earth's Dragons powers. Trust me this Dragon is powerful, has limits but powerful. Super Sayian 4 or 3 Goku is better, for Superman at Least he can win. Anything beyond this and Superman dead meat

[Kroc1138]

Originally posted by guyverjay
Bwhahaha Final GT Goku would beat any version of superman for the simple fact that he is IMMORTAL. You can't kill him.

Even if the fight took a 100 years (which it wouldn't) goku would get stronger and stronger until pre crisis supes is beaten.

As for the time travel rubbish. What good would that do? Goku is from a different universe, how the hell would supes even find the planet vegeta let alone kill all the beings living on it (in the past) You forget the Sword of Superman makes Precrisis Supes Immortal, and possibly omnipotent (debatable). I'm assuming that final Goku is his most powerful, so then it becomes a pissing contest from there. As for time traveling and finding the Planet Vegeta, with near limitless speeds (which allowed him to build an entire underground city in seconds) Supes would find the planet in a few seconds, hurl it into a Black Hole, end of story.

[GammaBeast]

Where exactly does it say the Sword makes him immortal? I also want an actual statement that says he's omnipotent. This all just seems to be your speculation.

[Kroc1138]

Originally posted by GammaBeast
Where exactly does it say the Sword makes him immortal? I also want an actual statement that says he's omnipotent. This all just seems to be your speculation. True it is speculation. I kinda thought it was vague in what it did to Him but it's very open to debate. But even if it's what you think it is (omniscience), that's all Supes really needs to woop Goku anyway. I'll debate further when the time is more abundant.

[GammaBeast]

I don't think he is Omniscient either. If he was, how come he didn't know why everyone was running away from him? And if he is Omnipotent (all powerful) why couldn't he just make it so everyone saw him normally?

[crazysmoke]

I just had to join this converstion. Goku can easily kill the hulk with multiple distructor discs. The hulk is not stronger then goku. I esimaite goku can easily lift a planet the size of Jupiter with 1 hand. Hell he can probably kill him with a hit from his dragon fist attack. Or just knock his ass out with a hit from the back of the head. With Superman, superman can fight with him to a degree but over all if he went Super saiyan it lights out for superman.
But there are characters is the mavel universe that can kill goku. And i'm not even talking about immoral goku or the precrisis superman s h i t !

[Kroc1138]

Originally posted by GammaBeast
I don't think he is Omniscient either. If he was, how come he didn't know why everyone was running away from him? And if he is Omnipotent (all powerful) why couldn't he just make it so everyone saw him normally? Well if you looked at the link more throughly you would know Supes gave up the sword b/c it made him too powerful. Ha! He's already overpowered at that point. He could punch a hole in the universe, If he could do that with his fist, to something that can't be grasped. Think, his heat vision could probably do more. Oh and he converted a supernova to a Black hole by spinning around it. I think you underestimate Supes.

[GammaBeast]

Originally posted by Kroc1138
Well if you looked at the link more throughly you would know Supes gave up the sword b/c it made him too powerful. Ha! He's already overpowered at that point. He could punch a hole in the universe, If he could do that with his fist, to something that can't be grasped. Think, his heat vision could probably do more. Oh and he converted a supernova to a Black hole by spinning around it. I think you underestimate Supes.

I don't underestimate supes, I think you underestimate Goku.

You still didn't answer my question, if he is Omnipotent("all powerful") why didn't he know why people were running from him? And why couldn't he just will it to stop? He should have been able to just will something and have it be done.

I have no doubts the sword made him powerful, but not omnipotent. The only omnipotent being in the DC universe is the Spectre. By it's very definition only one person at a time can be Omnipotent.

There is also no actual indication of what his power would be other than he would be immortal. everything you say is just theory and speculation.

[Bapman]

SUPERMAN PRIME
He'd literally wipe the floor with GOKU...
as in he'd use him as a broomstick.

[Shyair]

Gokuu No Karyuu.
He's an all powerful god.
He'd wipe the existance of reality clean of Superman's existence with a thought.

[Shyair]

Originally posted by Gambit_Fan
i hate Dragonball but i say Superman, Batman and Green Lantern from DC wouldkick his ass as would Thor, Cyclops, Phoenix, Wolverine from Marvel. There are others i just can't think of them yet Wow. You're strangely obscenely wrong.

[War Lord]

It depends on which Green Lantern.

Hal Jordan could be a challenge to Goku, because he was able to take on the entire GL corps. The power of the ring is unlimited in potential. Whatever the GL wishes, the ring does, including faster than light reaction, unlimited strength, and/or unlimited defense. Keep in mind that the ring is no longer vulnerable to yellow.

I do think that Pre-crisis superman could take on Goku prior to GT.

[Krpton]

ok,

who has taken more punishment? - supes
who has more strength? - supes
who can withstand more gravity? - supes
who is more faster? - supes
who can destroy plantes with one punch? - supes
who is scared of gettin destroyed along wid da planet? - goku

[Guyverjay]

Who knows nothing about either superman or Goku? - Krpton

[GammaBeast]

who has taken more punishment? - supes

Prove that.

who has more strength? - supes

Whats your basis for that? Goku's physical strength is never really tested in the same way so you can never know for sure. Even if supes is physically stronger, it's not a fist fight, Goku's energy attacks would wipe supes out in a second.

who can withstand more gravity? - supes

What the hell are you basing this off of?

who is more faster? - supes

I'll concede to this, but how often does he actually use that in battle? Even if he did how would he beat Goku who is immortal? Also where is supes going to run from an attack that will wipe out all of existence?

who can destroy plantes with one punch? - supes

Who can destroy a solar system with the wave of a finger? Goku!

who is scared of gettin destroyed along wid da planet? - goku

Scared? What makes you think he is scared? Remember when he fought Frieza? The planet was going to be destroyed, but he didn't care he kept fighting even if it would cost him his life.

You seem to keep forgetting Goku is immortal. He cannot be destroyed with the planet or die in any way.