It Starts: Bad news for Blu-Ray

[imdaly]

I know this is probably better suited for the Movie Forum, but it's just as relevant for PS3, as it is as reliant on Blu-Ray succeeding as anything else:



UNIVERSAL STUDIOS BACK OUT OF BLU-RAY

Universal Studios has decided not to release movies within the Blu-Ray format, according to a spokeswoman representing the Blu-Ray Disc Association. In an email sent to PC Magazine, a spokeswoman said that Universal had withdrawn its earlier support for the format. A PC Magazine reporter had requested supporting documents when researching a previous story (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1992901,00.asp) documenting imprecisions in surveys released to bolster the Blu-Ray and competing HD-DVD format, although that request was not actually referenced in the email.

"This spring, you received materials explaining the advantages of the Blu-ray format for optical discs," the spokeswoman said. "Those materials explained that, to date, over 108 movie and music titles were scheduled for release in Blu-ray Disc and listed the studios behind those releases.
"Unfortunately, in the graphics accompanying that text, a few titles from Universal Studios were depicted," the email continued. "Although the Blu-ray format has many advantages over competing technologies and has the support of numerous studios including Disney, Fox, Sony Pictures, MGM, Lions Gate, Paramount and Warner, Universal has decided not to release titles in this format. We will let you know when and if that changes, along with other updates about how well the Blu-ray format has been accepted."
The report comes after Craig Kornblau, the president of Universal Studios Home Entertainment, was quoted by ITwire.com.au, speaking at the CEDIA (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2016672,00.asp) consumer electronics show last week.

According to ITWire (http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/5647/53/), Kornblau essentially handed the next-generation DVD crown to HD DVD: "Look at the blogs, look at the reviews by the early adopters and even look at the mainstream media -- HD DVD has maintained its first-to-market advantage and delivered on the promises of providing the best high definition image and sound quality at the best value for consumers today," Kornblau said.
Universal Music Group, which is owned by Europe's Vivendi, has supported the Blu-Ray format.
Although Blu-Ray seemed to have won the lion's share of supporters in the early going, the format has suffered from Sony's miscues. Sony has already run into Blu-Ray production issues (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2010355,00.asp), suffering from a shortage of blue lasers, which has forced the company to delay its PlayStation3 console in Europe (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2012677,00.asp), which uses a Blu-Ray drive.

Source: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2017527,00.asp



So it begins...

Any guesses on who's next to jump ship and take HD-DVD's hand?

[THWIP*]

I know this is probably better suited for the Movie Forum, but it's just as relevant for PS3, as it is as reliant on Blu-Ray succeeding as anything else:



Source: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2017527,00.asp



So it begins...

Any guesses on who's next to jump ship and take HD-DVD's hand?


WHERE THE HELL HAVE YOU BEEN? THE "BAD NEWS" STARTED FOR 'BLU-RAY', MANY MONTHS AGO. ;)

[imdaly]

Lol I've been here the whole time.

Although I just relized that Universal has been HD-DVD exclusive this whole time, apparently. For some reason I wasn't thinking they were exclusive until now.

Oh well...

[Avalanche]

Once the PS3 gains a foothold on the market, they'll support Blu-Ray. The public will be able to buy Blu-Ray players as part of the PS3 for much less than what they're retailing now. The studios will start to take note.

[TrailerCues]

I say the studio's that double dib dvd's to hell will eventually be releasing on all formats to be the ultimate double dipper :o

[TrailerCues]

Once the PS3 gains a foothold on the market, they'll support Blu-Ray. The public will be able to buy Blu-Ray players as part of the PS3 for much less than what they're retailing now. The studios will start to take note.

We still have no idea how the general public will accept the price of the PS3 & won't until launch week. I think it would depend on how the PS3s sell & what people are saying about it & how many people that decides they are not even buying it right away for any studio to really care about how popular the ps3 is. Right now it is hard to say. The price will be a big factor of the PS3 here & as of now it is hurting it

[SouLeSS]

Once the PS3 gains a foothold on the market, they'll support Blu-Ray. The public will be able to buy Blu-Ray players as part of the PS3 for much less than what they're retailing now. The studios will start to take note.

The 'PS3' will NOT gain a foothold on the market. Not now, not ever.

[Avalanche]

The 'PS3' will NOT gain a foothold on the market. Not now, not ever.
I think the PS3 will gain a foothold. Anyone who thinks the PS3 is doomed to fail is being a little naive. Sony still has a lot of public support.

And with the growth of the PS3, Blu-Ray will become more more prominent. Their entire reason for its inclusion.

[LongDong]

The 'PS3' will NOT gain a foothold on the market. Not now, not ever.

lol ok dude

[Addendum]

It's way too early to say that Blu-Ray will "become more prominent".

[Avalanche]

No one was saying that. I said it would become more prominent once the PS3 launches. By that I mean more prominent than it is right now, not more prominent than HD-DVD.

[LongDong]

It's way too early to say that Blu-Ray will "become more prominent".

Flip side of that coin is that it is WAY too early to say that Blu-Ray won't do **** or get a foothold.

[WhatsHisFace]

This HD-DVD war is such crap. Why'd they have to start this?

[Timstuff]

Because Toshiba wants to keep their hold on the home video market, and Panasonic, Sony, and the other members of the BDA want to take their place with a higher-capacity format. It's the same thing that happened with Betamax and VHS. One company has their version of a product that customers want, and the other company has their own. It will ultimately be in the customers' hands to decide which format becomes the standard.

[Avalanche]

http://www.elektriq.com/articles/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-battle-update

[THWIP*]

This HD-DVD war is such crap. Why'd they have to start this?



BLAME IT ON 'SONY'. 'HD-DVD' WAS JUST A NATURAL, AFFORDABLE PROGRESSION OF 'DVD'.......NOTHING WRONG WITH INTRODUCING THAT AT ALL, 10 YEARS AFTER THE ADVENT OF 'DVD'.
'SONY' IS JUST DOING IT'S USUAL "DEVELOP AN IMPRACTICAL, EXPENSIVE, OVERBLOWN NEW FORMAT, AND ATTEMPT TO RAM IT DOWN THE THROATS OF CONSUMERS". :down

[THWIP*]

http://www.elektriq.com/articles/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-battle-update


YEAH, I SAW THIS YESTERDAY.......AND HERE'S MY TAKE:


HD-DVD:

* Universal
* Paramount
* Warner Bros.

Blu-ray:

* Sony Pictures -- DOESN'T COUNT (FOR OBVIOUS REASONS)
* Paramount -- RIDING THE FENCE
* Warner Bros. -- DITTO
* MGM -- NOT AS BIG OF A FORCE IN THE INDUSTRY, AS BEFORE
* Disney -- WITHOUT NEWLY-ACQUIRED 'PIXAR', WE'RE WAITING 10+ YEARS FOR THEM TO RELEASE MUCH OF ANYTHING FROM THEIR "VAULT"
* 20th Century Fox


THE REALLY IMPORTANT THING TO WATCH IS, WHO WILL JUMP OFF THE FENCE, AND TO WHICH SIDE. :o

[Addendum]

Flip side of that coin is that it is WAY too early to say that Blu-Ray won't do **** or get a foothold.
I'm skeptical of both formats

[Avalanche]

I'm skeptical of both formats
Me too. I won't be investing in either until there is a clear winner and the prices come down.

[Timstuff]

I'm siding with Blu-Ray but it's largely because of convinience. Why support HD-DVD when I'm already going to have a Blu-Ray player through my PS3?

That's actually the whole strategy behind including Blu-Ray with PS3. People will support Blu-Ray by default if they already have the means to watch Blu-Ray movies in their homes.

[Topdawg]

I'm siding with Blu-Ray but it's largely because of convinience. Why support HD-DVD when I'm already going to have a Blu-Ray player through my PS3?

That's actually the whole strategy behind including Blu-Ray with PS3. People will support Blu-Ray by default if they already have the means to watch Blu-Ray movies in their homes.

Thats true, if MS had packed a HD-DVD player in the 360, they would have had a bigger chance of winning.

good move by sony.

[THWIP*]

I'm siding with Blu-Ray but it's largely because of convinience. Why support HD-DVD when I'm already going to have a Blu-Ray player through my PS3?

That's actually the whole strategy behind including Blu-Ray with PS3. People will support Blu-Ray by default if they already have the means to watch Blu-Ray movies in their homes.


BUT IT'S (LARGELY) AN UNNECESSARY FORMAT, AT THIS POINT. 'SONY' WAS SMART WITH THE 'PS2', BUT THIS IS GUERILLA TACTICS......NOT CONSUMER-FRIENDLY AT ALL. AND, IF THE EARLY 'BLU-RAY' PLAYERS ARE A SH**TY AS THE EARLY DVD PLAYERS IN THE 'PS2' (AND VERY WELL COULD BE), THEN IT'S ALL FOR NAUGHT.

[LongDong]

BLAME IT ON 'SONY'. 'HD-DVD' WAS JUST A NATURAL, AFFORDABLE PROGRESSION OF 'DVD'.......NOTHING WRONG WITH INTRODUCING THAT AT ALL, 10 YEARS AFTER THE ADVENT OF 'DVD'.
'SONY' IS JUST DOING IT'S USUAL "DEVELOP AN IMPRACTICAL, EXPENSIVE, OVERBLOWN NEW FORMAT, AND ATTEMPT TO RAM IT DOWN THE THROATS OF CONSUMERS". :down

That is what everyone said about the CD.

I just wish whichever one is to be the "chosen one" that it would be universal and not so divided. HD-DVD is the next progressive step, but if the chance we can have something better I would like to take it, however not like this.

[Avalanche]

Thats true, if MS had packed a HD-DVD player in the 360, they would have had a bigger chance of winning.

good move by sony.
But Blu-Ray makes the PS3 expensive, which in turn causes Sony to lose some support.

Microsoft's position won't help HD-DVD win the war, but it means their standalone 360 is reasonably priced. Less than half the price of the PS3 in the UK.

[THWIP*]

That is what everyone said about the CD.

I just wish whichever one is to be the "chosen one" that it would be universal and not so divided. HD-DVD is the next progressive step, but if the chance we can have something better I would like to take it, however not like this.


WHO'S "EVERYBODY"? I DON'T RECALL MANY PEOPLE BEING UPSET ABOUT THE CD FORMAT, WHEN IT CAME OUT. IT WAS A BRAND NEW TECHNOLOGY, MORE RELIABLE, AND REASONABLY PRICED COMPARED TO TAPES. :huh:

[Topdawg]

But Blu-Ray makes the PS3 expensive, which in turn causes Sony to lose some support.

Microsoft's position won't help HD-DVD win the war, but it means their standalone 360 is reasonably priced. Less than half the price of the PS3 in the UK.

but in business you have to take risks.
they did the same with the DVD.

[Addendum]

But DVD was the natural progression from VHS, while the movie buffs has Laser-Disc for a good while

[Timstuff]

Laser disc offered superior picture quality to VHS, but it was a somewhat flawed format. It was very inconvinient since the discs were gigantic, and you had to flip them over halfway through.

VHS was actually a very crappy format, but it remained dominant for years just because Laserdisc was not practical for mainstream consumers. Blu-Ray however, offers the same convinience as DVD, except that it's currently more expensive. However, the prices will go down over time, just like they did with DVD.

[블라스]

You could kill people with a Laserdisc :(

[Addendum]

Laser disc offered superior picture quality to VHS, but it was a somewhat flawed format. It was very inconvinient since the discs were gigantic, and you had to flip them over halfway through.

VHS was actually a very crappy format, but it remained dominant for years just because Laserdisc was not practical for mainstream consumers. Blu-Ray however, offers the same convinience as DVD, except that it's currently more expensive. However, the prices will go down over time, just like they did with DVD.
And HD-DVD has the same conveinience as DVD, hence it's too early to say HD-DVD or Blu-Ray is better

[SpiderFan17]

The problem with these next-gen formats as far as built-in drives go is the fact that if the format fails, for the games to be backwards compatible, it will cost more money using outdated technology to emulate it. Sony fanboys, put your bias aside for 5 seconds and answer this question honestly. Assume that blu-ray fails... what do you think Sony will have to do in order to have bd-roms play in the PS4? The answer is obvious here, but I want someone else to say it.

At least if HD-DVD fails, Microsoft isn't completely screwed out of a generation of games being playable (at least without putting in obsolete equipment).

[LongDong]

WHO'S "EVERYBODY"? I DON'T RECALL MANY PEOPLE BEING UPSET ABOUT THE CD FORMAT, WHEN IT CAME OUT. IT WAS A BRAND NEW TECHNOLOGY, MORE RELIABLE, AND REASONABLY PRICED COMPARED TO TAPES. :huh:

WHen CD's wee coming out the general consensus was that they were overpriced and overhyped. It was thought that tey would last 5 years at the max before they were worn out and needing to be replaced, that they were too scratchable and too big.

Time has proven the doubters wrong of course

[LongDong]

The problem with these next-gen formats as far as built-in drives go is the fact that if the format fails, for the games to be backwards compatible, it will cost more money using outdated technology to emulate it. Sony fanboys, put your bias aside for 5 seconds and answer this question honestly. Assume that blu-ray fails... what do you think Sony will have to do in order to have bd-roms play in the PS4? The answer is obvious here, but I want someone else to say it.

At least if HD-DVD fails, Microsoft isn't completely screwed out of a generation of games being playable (at least without putting in obsolete equipment).

backwards compatibility and Microsoft go together like oil and water. If the PS3 is not able to match up with the PS4 in the compatibility department, you are in the same boat that the MS consumers are in.

Until MS actually cares enough about its fan base to make this an option on their systems, using that as an argument against the Blu-Ray makes no sense.

[Zenien]

I know this is probably better suited for the Movie Forum, but it's just as relevant for PS3, as it is as reliant on Blu-Ray succeeding as anything else:



Source: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2017527,00.asp



So it begins...

Any guesses on who's next to jump ship and take HD-DVD's hand?

Universal was never with Blu Ray.

[THWIP*]

Universal was never with Blu Ray.


THANKS AGAIN, 'CAPTAIN OBVIOUS'........HE NOTED AS MUCH IN HIS 2ND POST. :dry:

[Timstuff]

That "news" is basically like going "ZOMG! PS3 is going to fail because Bill Gates says that Xbox 360 is better!" It's not a surprise by any stretch of the imagination. Universal is basically coming out and re-confiming how much distaste they have for any HD format that isn't HD-DVD, which we already knew full well. If this "news" means that Blu-Ray is doomed, then we've known it was doomed since the beginning.

But, I'm sure Universal will come around eventually, if Blu-Ray begins to eclipse HD-DVD by a signifigant margin. They'll come back with their tails between their legs, and say "Okay, so maybe we were wrong."

[THWIP*]

That "news" is basically like going "ZOMG! PS3 is going to fail because Bill Gates says that Xbox 360 is better!" It's not a surprise by any stretch of the imagination. Universal is basically coming out and re-confiming how much distaste they have for any HD format that isn't HD-DVD, which we already knew full well. If this "news" means that Blu-Ray is doomed, then we've known it was doomed since the beginning.

But, I'm sure Universal will come around eventually, if Blu-Ray begins to eclipse HD-DVD by a signifigant margin. They'll come back with their tails between their legs, and say "Okay, so maybe we were wrong."


OR THE EXACT OPPOSITE COULD HAPPEN.

LIKE I SAID, THE "FENCE RIDERS" ARE THE REAL PLAYERS HERE.

[Avalanche]

The problem with these next-gen formats as far as built-in drives go is the fact that if the format fails, for the games to be backwards compatible, it will cost more money using outdated technology to emulate it. Sony fanboys, put your bias aside for 5 seconds and answer this question honestly. Assume that blu-ray fails... what do you think Sony will have to do in order to have bd-roms play in the PS4? The answer is obvious here, but I want someone else to say it.

At least if HD-DVD fails, Microsoft isn't completely screwed out of a generation of games being playable (at least without putting in obsolete equipment).
PS4 will be backwards compatible. Sony are known for it. Even if Blu-Ray should fail, Sony will include the necessary technology and emulations with which to provide backwards compatibility.

[Timstuff]

OR THE EXACT OPPOSITE COULD HAPPEN.

LIKE I SAID, THE "FENCE RIDERS" ARE THE REAL PLAYERS HERE.

What do you think will determine which side the "fence riders" ultimately side with? It will be based around which format is more successful with consumers. PS3 is going to be huge, and everyone who owns a PS3 will automatically be a potential Blu-Ray disc buyer. If there are more potential Blu-Ray buyers than potential HD-DVD buyers, then the "fence riders" will side with Blu-Ray.

[THWIP*]

What do you think will determine which side the "fence riders" ultimately side with? It will be based around which format is more successful with consumers. PS3 is going to be huge, and everyone who owns a PS3 will automatically be a potential Blu-Ray disc buyer. If there are more potential Blu-Ray buyers than potential HD-DVD buyers, then the "fence riders" will side with Blu-Ray.


YOU DON'T KNOW THAT.

[ampersand]

PS4 will be backwards compatible. Sony are known for it. Even if Blu-Ray should fail, Sony will include the necessary technology and emulations with which to provide backwards compatibility.
That wasn't his point. What he was trying to say was that PS4 will be chock full of obsolete technology if Blu Ray fails.

[Timstuff]

YOU DON'T KNOW THAT.

Prove me wrong.

[THWIP*]

That wasn't his point. What he was trying to say was that PS4 will be chock full of obsolete technology if Blu Ray fails.


IF 'BLU-RAY' FAILS, THERE WON'T BE A 'PS4'.

[THWIP*]

Prove me wrong.


LOL....PROVE YOU'RE RIGHT, CHIEF. :wow: :huh: :whatever:

[ampersand]

IF 'BLU-RAY' FAILS, THERE WON'T BE A 'PS4'.
Very possible.

[Avalanche]

That wasn't his point. What he was trying to say was that PS4 will be chock full of obsolete technology if Blu Ray fails.
By that point the technology will be cheap, and small. They can fill it with obsolete technology all they like so long as it doesn't impact upon my PS4 playing experience.

[Timstuff]

LOL....PROVE YOU'RE RIGHT, CHIEF. :wow: :huh: :whatever:

I have the two most successful game consoles in history to back up my belief. Playstation is to videogames what iPod is to music, there's no reason to believe that PS3 will break this trend.

[THWIP*]

Very possible.


THE VOLATILITY OF THE 'SONY' STOCKHOLDER'S DEMEANOR IS AT AN ALL-TIME CRITICAL MASS......THEY WON'T STAND FOR ANOTHER BIG RISK, IF 'PS3'/BLU-RAY FAILS. EVEN 'SONY' KNOWS THIS.

[THWIP*]

I have the two most successful game consoles in history to back up my belief. Playstation is to videogames what iPod is to music, there's no reason to believe that PS3 will break this trend.


ALLOW ME TO INTRODUCE YOU TO SOMEONE....

http://www.thediabetesblog.com/media/2006/03/gamecube.jpg


PRIOR SUCCESS, SAYS NOTHING ABOUT THE FUTURE. :o

[Fran]

DUDE, the GameCube wasn't THAT bad.

Do you remember the Atari Jaguar?

Same case.

[THWIP*]

DUDE, the GameCube wasn't THAT bad.

Do you remember the Atari Jaguar?

Same case.


YOU'RE COMPARING THE 'GC' TO THE 'JAGUAR'.......AS A GOOD THING? :wow: :huh:


MY POINT IS, 'NINTENDO' WAS RIDING HIGH FROM THE 'NES', 'SNES', AND 'GAMEBOY'...........AND THEN THEY WENT OUT IN LEFT FIELD WITH THE "AGAINST-THE-GRAIN" GAMECUBE, IN THE FACE OF A HIGHLY-CRITICIZED 'N64'. NOBODY DREAMED 'NINTENDO' WOULD STRUGGLE TO MAKE A PROFIT, LIKE THEY DID WITH THE 'GC'. BUT, THE CHOICES THEY MAKE IN A UNIQUE FORMAT, LACK OF INTEGRATED ONLINE COMPONENTS, AND A LACK OF 3RD PARTY SUPPORT, ULTIMATELY KILLED IT.
'SONY' IS TAKING A SIMILAR RISK.

[Timstuff]

ALLOW ME TO INTRODUCE YOU TO SOMEONE....

http://www.thediabetesblog.com/media/2006/03/gamecube.jpg


PRIOR SUCCESS, SAYS NOTHING ABOUT THE FUTURE. :o

Guess what? Sony's marketshare has INCREASED with each passing generation. Nintendo's has been decreased by 20 million units with each console they put out. The trends applying to Sony are working in their favor, while the ones that happened to Nintendo have lead them into the sorry state where they are.

Sony's situation is nothing at all like Nintendo's. They just keep getting better and better, while Nintendo got progressively worse. The two companies' histories are un-comparable, so don't try to draw paralells between them, because you won't find any.

If anything, it's Nintendo you should be worrying about, since they're the ones making all the mistakes you're accusing Sony of doing (which they are not).

[THWIP*]

Guess what? Sony's marketshare has INCREASED with each passing generation. Nintendo's has been decreased by 20 million units with each console they put out. The trends applying to Sony are working in their favor, while the ones that happened to Nintendo have lead them into the sorry state where they are.

Sony's situation is nothing at all like Nintendo's. They just keep getting better and better, while Nintendo got progressively worse. The two companies' histories are un-comparable, so don't try to draw paralells between them, because you won't find any.

If anything, it's Nintendo you should be worrying about, since they're the ones making all the mistakes you're accusing Sony of doing (which they are not).



NINTENDO, DESPITE IT'S FAILURES, IS STILL THE MOST PROFITABLE OF THE 3 CONSOLE MAKERS
'SONY' ISN'T AS STRONG AS YOU APPARENTLY THINK (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=aFcpPvW_o4Oo&refer=japan)

" Chief Executive Officer Howard Stringer, is relying on the PlayStation 3 to revive a company that has lost half its market value in the past six years. Investment in the PlayStation 3, which is priced higher than rival consoles from Microsoft Corp. and Nintendo Co., will be a major drag on profit growth, said analyst Amir Anvarzadeh.

Sony's stock has declined 7.3 percent in the past six months, compared with a 2.6 percent gain in the benchmark Nikkei 225 Stock Average"

[SpiderFan17]

By that point the technology will be cheap, and small. They can fill it with obsolete technology all they like so long as it doesn't impact upon my PS4 playing experience.
That is if they keep producing it. Try to find a brand new minidisc player for an inexpensive price.

Exactly my point. Furthermore, this isn't just an emulation chip like with the PS1. This is a laser, mechanical components, processors, etc. If the successor or winning format to blu ray has NOTHING in common with blu ray, then how will they put that in there?

[SpiderFan17]

[LIST=1]
NINTENDO, DESPITE IT'S FAILURES, IS STILL THE MOST PROFITABLE OF THE 3 CONSOLE MAKERS

Hey hey hey Thwip, knock it off! This isnt a thread of "facts!". This is a thread where if you want to say Sony is #1 you point out how many PSP's they've shipped, or talk about how many Blu Ray units are in production. Profit margins and stock prices are IRRELEVANT!

[CrypticOne]

I know this is probably better suited for the Movie Forum, but it's just as relevant for PS3, as it is as reliant on Blu-Ray succeeding as anything else:



Source: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2017527,00.asp



So it begins...

Any guesses on who's next to jump ship and take HD-DVD's hand?

I knew that people weren't going to catch on to this Blu-ray disc. And here is the proof. This is bad for the PS3. I have a feeling that more studios will jump off of the boat in months to come. This doesn't affect me though, the reasons I am going to get a PS3 is for the games.

[THWIP*]

Hey hey hey Thwip, knock it off! This isnt a thread of "facts!". This is a thread where if you want to say Sony is #1 you point out how many PSP's they've shipped, or talk about how many Blu Ray units are in production. Profit margins and stock prices are IRRELEVANT!


MY BAD.....I DON'T KNOW WHAT I WAS THINKING. :o :oldrazz:

[Addendum]

backwards compatibility and Microsoft go together like oil and water. If the PS3 is not able to match up with the PS4 in the compatibility department, you are in the same boat that the MS consumers are in.

Until MS actually cares enough about its fan base to make this an option on their systems, using that as an argument against the Blu-Ray makes no sense.
Dude, you do realize that a different company was involved with the chip in the Xbox, as opposed to the one in the 360. There's some copyrights and some other stuff that is prohibiting simple BC. It's not Microsoft's fault.

[Timstuff]

I knew that people weren't going to catch on to this Blu-ray disc. And here is the proof. This is bad for the PS3. I have a feeling that more studios will jump off of the boat in months to come. This doesn't affect me though, the reasons I am going to get a PS3 is for the games.

It's too late. Only one studio jumped ship on Blu-Ray, and that was like 2 years ago. All but two have already jumped ship on HD-DVD though, and the the only two besides Universal are supporting Blu-Ray as well. Things are looking bad for HD-DVD. If movie studios keep jumping ship on it, then the only studio left supporting it will be Universal.

[Not Jake]

aren't people still happy with buying normal DVDs:huh:

[SpiderFan17]

It's too late. Only one studio jumped ship on Blu-Ray, and that was like 2 years ago. All but two have already jumped ship on HD-DVD though, and the the only two besides Universal are supporting Blu-Ray as well. Things are looking bad for HD-DVD. If movie studios keep jumping ship on it, then the only studio left supporting it will be Universal.
Things could get a lot better really soon for HD DVD. New Line has said that if the amount of HD add-on units sold for 360 outweigh by a good amount the install base of the PS3, New Line will heavily consider HD exclusive support. They're probably figuring since HD has the edge over blu ray in terms of standalone players sold, if they also corner the early adopter market in the console-based players, then they will easily be able to be seen as the bigger force.

As far as WB supporting both formats, at this point they may as well be considered timed exclusive as far as HD goes. Most WB movies that have hit, hit on HD first, and took several months to get to Blu Ray (full metal jacket, blazing saddles) but even then, not all titles have even been announced for bd yet (Constantine, Aeon Flux, etc). Hell, look at titles like Batman Begins due out in a few weeks. Not a single peep about if/when it'll hit on Blu Ray. As well, "Batman" and "Charlie and the chocolate factory" will both have the "in-movie experience" that is HD exclusive. Charlie hits the same day on both formats, but doesnt have the in-movie experience on blu ray, which MSRP's for more.

While on paper Blu ray has majority support, when you look at what's actually happening, HD is really getting the better deal right now.

aren't people still happy with buying normal DVDs:huh:
Im plenty happy to buy stuff like TV shows or "casual" movies on dvd. But I have an HDTV, and movies like Serenity, Batman Begins, Constantine, and Full Metal Jacket are something that is really enticing to watch in HD. The format was not created to re-buy your entire collection on HD, or even all the new movies, but it does give people who have HDTV's some more use out of their tv's.

Plus, regular DVD's look fantastic while upscaled through the player, so I'll never stop buying the regular dvd's entirely, until they absolutely stop all production.

[Timstuff]

Things could get a lot better really soon for HD DVD. New Line has said that if the amount of HD add-on units sold for 360 outweigh by a good amount the install base of the PS3, New Line will heavily consider HD exclusive support.

Like that is gonna happen. :whatever:

New Line must either be anticipating PS3 to be a major flop, or they just plain have no intention of going HD-DVD exclusive, and that's the way they chose to word it.

If Blu-Ray ends up completely eclipsing HD-DVD within the next year or so from PS3 sales and lowered prices, I think it's fair to assume that New Line could just as easily be swung the other way.

[SpiderFan17]

Like that is gonna happen. :whatever:

New Line must either be anticipating PS3 to be a major flop, or they just plain have no intention of going HD-DVD exclusive, and that's the way they chose to word it.

If Blu-Ray ends up completely eclipsing HD-DVD within the next year or so from PS3 sales and lowered prices, I think it's fair to assume that New Line could just as easily be swung the other way.
I have no clue what the point of your post is. Let's review, but note that I use the term "point" only because I cant think of a more polite way to say "baseless opinion".

Point 1: New line will not go to hd-dvd, because it cannot eclipse blu ray
Point 2: New line in some form or another is not speaking truthfully
point 3: Blu ray will more than likely get New Line because of points 1 and 2

Yeah, this post is informative and definitely weighing the current situation properly, not just a bunch of regurgitated opinions. Do you have ANY facts at all to back this up? New Line saying their consideration for HD exclusivity if it hits certain sales targets IS A FACT. Why not counter it with another fact?

[Timstuff]

No, the issue I take beef with is that you said Newline said they'll go HD-DVD exclusive if the Xbox 360 HD-DVD peripheral outsells the PS3, which I think is more or less impossible, and Newline, if they have any knowledge of the game industry, should know that it's impossible.

[SpiderFan17]

No, the issue I take beef with is that you said Newline said they'll go HD-DVD exclusive if the Xbox 360 HD-DVD peripheral outsells the PS3, which I think is more or less impossible, and Newline, if they have any knowledge of the game industry, should know that it's impossible.
They said they would look into exclusivity with the HD format (not "definitely"), and the exact phrase was "depending on how well the 360 peripheral sells this holiday season." If you really think about it, thats not outlandish.

Consider the following: Not every person who buys a PS3 will have an HDTV. But everyone who buys the 360 peripheral would have one, as HD-DVD requires it. Therefore, if they saw 1 million peripherals sold, they know for a fact thats a definite install base of 1 million. Now, when all 500,000 ps3's sell out, how do they definitely know what the install base for blu ray is (because honestly, nobody is going to be stupid enough to buy a ps3 for blu ray to watch on an SDTV).

As far as the "outsells the ps3", thats somewhat implied they're going to be looking at how well the ps3 does as well, as a factor in their exclusivity decision. Not to mention they were speaking about the timeframe of this holiday season, not "if the 360 peripheral outsells the PS3 during this generation".

[Timstuff]

Well whatever then. But it would definately be stupid of Newline to jump ship this early, and I highly doubt that the Xbox 360 HD-DVD drive is going to do any serious numbers this year.

[CrypticOne]

aren't people still happy with buying normal DVDs:huh:

I know I am. And I am not going to start over!

[Timstuff]

That's okay. I know people who still use Vynles.

[THWIP*]

That's okay. I know people who still use Vynles.



DO YOU MEAN VINYLS? :huh:
AND IF SO, VINYL IS STILL THE INDUSTRY STANDARD FOR SOUND REPRODUCTION QUALITY.......LIKELY ALWAYS WILL BE. IT'S REALLY NOT A FAIR COMPARISON.

[LongDong]

Dude, you do realize that a different company was involved with the chip in the Xbox, as opposed to the one in the 360. There's some copyrights and some other stuff that is prohibiting simple BC. It's not Microsoft's fault.

Of course it is, is it NOT their system? They had ALL of the control on how it was built and what went into it.

[Zenien]

All things equal, it's Microsoft, had they the suitable motivation they could have spent the resources to make every game BC.

[CM Punk]

I really want Blu-Ray to win, because it's head and shoulders above HD-DVD as far as technology is concerned, but I just don't see it happening anymore. Too many screw up's have been made along the way. And yes, Microsoft COULD have, but no one can blame them for not doing it. What they did covered the needs of most people, and saved them quite a bit of money. If Microsoft did the only thing that would have gotten a BC 360 (including the Xbox chipset in the machine), then they'd be asking for PS3 prices for the 360. I'd much rather have the emulation than that.

[THWIP*]

I really want Blu-Ray to win, because it's head and shoulders above HD-DVD as far as technology is concerned, but I just don't see it happening anymore. Too many screw up's have been made along the way. And yes, Microsoft COULD have, but no one can blame them for not doing it. What they did covered the needs of most people, and saved them quite a bit of money. If Microsoft did the only thing that would have gotten a BC 360 (including the Xbox chipset in the machine), then they'd be asking for PS3 prices for the 360. I'd much rather have the emulation than that.


EXACTLY.......AND 'ZENIEN' KNOWS THAT, BUT IS TOO STUBBORN TO ADMIT IT.

[LongDong]

I really want Blu-Ray to win, because it's head and shoulders above HD-DVD as far as technology is concerned, but I just don't see it happening anymore. Too many screw up's have been made along the way. And yes, Microsoft COULD have, but no one can blame them for not doing it. What they did covered the needs of most people, and saved them quite a bit of money. If Microsoft did the only thing that would have gotten a BC 360 (including the Xbox chipset in the machine), then they'd be asking for PS3 prices for the 360. I'd much rather have the emulation than that.

Don't eve talk about MS Savng people money. The 2 versions of the 360 they came out with were a lame excuse to get an extra wad of cash from the consumer. Sure Sony plans on doing the same thing and I think that is bull**** as well. XBOX 360 (the one version worth getting anyway if someone was going to buy one) was 500 bucks, the PS3 is going to be 600. Not much of a difference there dude.

So what it might have cost an extra 50 bucks a machine to have BC, MOST people would rathe rhave that so that they can play the games they have stockpiled without having 2 big clunky machines around. BC is aMAJOR reason many love the PS2 as they do.

If the 360 was BC I would have bought one already. As it is not, forget about it until there is a library of games actually worth investing in.

[Addendum]

Of course it is, is it NOT their system? They had ALL of the control on how it was built and what went into it.
Microsoft and NVidia developed the chip for the original Xbox, but it used coding owned by NVidia.

The 360 chip was designed by ATI.

Neither company is owned or a subsidiary by Microsoft, therefore they can't simply put the code in. If they did, Microsoft would violate several copyright laws, and other business laws.

Don't be a dumbass about this just because you "support Sony"

[THWIP*]

Of course it is, is it NOT their system? They had ALL of the control on how it was built and what went into it.


YOU SHOULD REALLY DO A LITTLE RESEARCH, BEFORE YOU SAY SUCH THINGS. :o

[LongDong]

Microsoft and NVidia developed the chip for the original Xbox, but it used coding owned by NVidia.

The 360 chip was designed by ATI.

Neither company is owned or a subsidiary by Microsoft, therefore they can't simply put the code in. If they did, Microsoft would violate several copyright laws, and other business laws.

Don't be a dumbass about this just because you "support Sony"

MS = one of the richest corporations in the world. They easily could have gotten it done.

Stop with the insults man, there is NO reason for that childish ****.

[LongDong]

YOU SHOULD REALLY DO A LITTLE RESEARCH, BEFORE YOU SAY SUCH THINGS. :o

Microsft could have gotten anything done they wanted. ANYTHING! They have more than deep enough pockets if it were a money issue.

MS fanboys crack me up. They NEVER want anything bad to be said about MS, no matter if it is true or not, however they say nothing but bad things about Sony.

I have an xbox and ps2, I am a fence rider however do think they huge Sony library wins points over xbox for me.

That must be why I see both sides of the story yet the xbox purists never do.

[CM Punk]

MS = one of the richest corporations in the world because they don't do stupid stuff like buying expensive chipsets from Intel and nVidia, releasing an overpriced console because of it, all so they can do something they could have done for free anyways.

[Avalanche]

Microsoft is one of the richest corporations in the world for one reason only. They entered an emerging market at just the right time. Everything they have since is off the back of that.

[THWIP*]

Microsft could have gotten anything done they wanted. ANYTHING! They have more than deep enough pockets if it were a money issue.

MS fanboys crack me up. They NEVER want anything bad to be said about MS, no matter if it is true or not, however they say nothing but bad things about Sony.

I have an xbox and ps2, I am a fence rider however do think they huge Sony library wins points over xbox for me.

That must be why I see both sides of the story yet the xbox purists never do.


$$ DOESN'T SOLVE ALL PROBLEMS, KID. LET ME BREAK A FEW THINGS DOWN FOR YOU........LIKE I'VE HAD TO DO ON THIS SUBJECT FAR TOO MANY TIMES:


MORE $$ = HIGHER COSTS = HIGHER RETAIL PRICING. 'SONY' HAS NEVER HAD TO WORRY ABOUT THAT, WITH THE BC ISSUE, BECAUSE THEY DEVELOPED AND THEREFORE OWNED THE TECH IN THEIR CONSOLES. 'MS' TRIED TO REACH AN AGREEMENT WITH 'NVIDIA'. HOWEVER, HAVING JUST BEEN SPURNED BY 'MS', IN FAVOR OF 'ATI'.......AND THEN PICKED UP BY 'SONY'......IT WAS A BIT OF A CONFLICT OF INTEREST TO NEGOTIATE A NEW CONTRACT, TO SAY THE LEAST.
THE ONLY AGREEMENT THEY COULD REACH WITH 'NVIDIA', WAS THE LICENSING RIGHTS TO DECODE THE OLD CHIP, AND EMULATE THE GAMES. THEY COULDN'T PUT THE 'NVIDIA' XBOX CHIP IN THE '360'......WHICH HAS ALWAYS BEEN 'SONY'S SOLUTION TO BC.
THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH "MS FANBOYS". IT'S SIMPLE BUSINESS AND ECONOMICS.......BLACK & WHITE FACTS. ANYONE WHO STILL CAN'T UNDERSTAND THE '360' BC ISSUE, IS EITHER RETARDED, OR ARE JUST TOO STUBBORN/LAZY TO SEE THESE FACTS.

[THWIP*]

Microsoft is one of the richest corporations in the world for one reason only. They entered an emerging market at just the right time. Everything they have since is off the back of that.


YOU CAN'T BE SERIOUS. :dry:

[Addendum]

MS = one of the richest corporations in the world. They easily could have gotten it done.
No. Read up on copyright laws and business laws. If they did, Microsoft could face legal action and if they lost the case, that would have severely crippled any 360 sale or future production.

Stop with the insults man, there is NO reason for that childish ****.
It's only an insult cause it's true. Read up about first, then post your dumbass comments.

[THWIP*]

No. Read up on copyright laws and business laws. If they did, Microsoft could face legal action and if they lost the case, that would have severely crippled any 360 sale or future production.


It's only an insult cause it's true. Read up about first, then post your dumbass comments.



WE'RE WASTING OUR TIME, DUDE. I'VE TRIED TO EDUCATE PEOPLE ON THE '360' BC ISSUE MANY, MANY TIMES........AND THEY ALWAYS SAY THE SAME STUPID S**T. SOMETIMES YOU JUST HAVE TO LET PEOPLE WALLOW IN THEIR OWN IGNORANCE.

[CM Punk]

Microsoft is one of the richest corporations in the world for one reason only. They entered an emerging market at just the right time. Everything they have since is off the back of that.
How is that? They entered the OS market at the time when it had the most competition from companies that all had better products than them, and they wiped them all out through a combination of illegal ******* business practices and lots of shady deals. They may not be moral, but there's a lot more to their success than just dumb luck.

[SpiderFan17]

I really want Blu-Ray to win, because it's head and shoulders above HD-DVD as far as technology is concerned, but I just don't see it happening anymore.
Besides storage capacity, exactly how is Blu ray "heads and shoulders" above HD? The format up till this point was filling up single layer disks with transfers encoded in MPEG2. If you cant compress MPEG 2 to less than 25 gigs easily, how exactly is that "heads and shoulders" above the rest?

HD DVD, technologically speaking, is already finishing a new hybrid disk, where one side can fit a dual layer standard dvd, and the other side is a dual layered HD-DVD. Obviously, this means without requiring hardware updates they can add new layers (something they boasted about way back when).


Blu-ray, if storage capacity is the ONLY thing you're counting, does have an edge, but only slightly.

[Addendum]

WE'RE WASTING OUR TIME, DUDE. I'VE TRIED TO EDUCATE PEOPLE ON THE '360' BC ISSUE MANY, MANY TIMES........AND THEY ALWAYS SAY THE SAME STUPID S**T. SOMETIMES YOU JUST HAVE TO LET PEOPLE WALLOW IN THEIR OWN IGNORANCE.
I didn't understand it when the 360 came out. Then when I found out that different companies were involved with the Xbox chip and the 360 chip, it made sense.

Besides, why buy a brand-new next-gen system if all you're going to play on it is last-gen's games? Get a refurbished Xbox at Gamestop and buy the used games. Then when there's plenty of titles you want to get for the 360, then get one.

When the games I want to play on the 360 come out, that's when I'm getting one. Hell, I'm getting the games anyway before I get a 360.

[CM Punk]

*snip*.
As a storage medium, storage capacity would be the most important thing, and that's an area where Blu-Ray has much more than a "slight" advantage. TDK has already produced a 200GB Blu-Ray sextuple layer disc. The biggest HD-DVD in existence is a triple layer 90GB disc. That's way more than "slight". Getting away from storage capacity, there's the Java support for Blu-Ray, which in the future could lead to some pretty cool stuff, and the "Durabis" coating which can actually take an attack from a screwdriver and iron wool without a problem, which are both big technological leaps over what HD-DVD offers. Blu-Ray, at least on paper, is better than HD-DVD. The problem is that they haven't managed to translate that "on paper" to "in real life" yet, and if things keep going the way they're going, they may never get the chance to.

[THWIP*]

I didn't understand it when the 360 came out. Then when I found out that different companies were involved with the Xbox chip and the 360 chip, it made sense.

Besides, why buy a brand-new next-gen system if all you're going to play on it is last-gen's games? Get a refurbished Xbox at Gamestop and buy the used games. Then when there's plenty of titles you want to get for the 360, then get one.

When the games I want to play on the 360 come out, that's when I'm getting one. Hell, I'm getting the games anyway before I get a 360.


THAT'S JUST IT.....NOBODY UNDERSTOOD IT, UNTIL THERE WAS MORE INFORMATION. BUT THAT'S BEEN PUBLIC FOR ALMOST A YEAR NOW; THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NO REASON/ EXCUSE FOR PEOPLE STILL REHASHING THE SAME TIRED BULLS**T, WHEN YOU KNOW THE FACTS. I WAS PISSED MYSELF, WHEN I FIRST HEARD NOT ALL GAMES WOULD BE BC, AND THEY REQUIRED THE HDD, ETC. BUT THEN I TOOK IT UPON MYSELF TO DIG FOR ANSWERS; I READ EVERY SINGLE ARTICLE IN EVERY MAGAZINE, AND ON EVERY WEBSITE.......EVEN HEARD SOME INTERVIEWS.......AND THEN I UNDERSTOOD AND ACCEPTED IT.
AND YES......I TOO BOUGHT MY '360' FOR NEXT-GEN GAMING; I JUST WANTED TO STILL BE ABLE TO PLAY 'CRIMSON SKIES' AND 'THIEF: DS', SINCE I GAVE MY XBOX TO A FRIEND. HAD THEY NOT BEEN MADE BC, I'D STILL BE FINE THOUGH.......SINCE I HAVEN'T PLAYED EITHER SINCE LAST NOVEMBER. ;)

[LongDong]

No. Read up on copyright laws and business laws. If they did, Microsoft could face legal action and if they lost the case, that would have severely crippled any 360 sale or future production.


It's only an insult cause it's true. Read up about first, then post your dumbass comments.

There is nothing that says "dumbass" about any of my comments. MS could have easily gotten this done by writing that check.

You want to trade insults take it to the PM's and I will be more than happy to do that. However do not act like a child and try to play that **** here on the boards in front of your "buddies". These boards are polluted with enough crap that you really need not go down that juvenile road.

[Danalys]

might be more likely to get a decent x-box emulator on a PS3 eventually, lol. the x-box is dead and with no bc it's games have died with it. they really should have thought of possible problems down the line with licencing, while making the first machine. anyway hopefuly my x-box holds up for a while yet.

[CM Punk]

Yes, MS could have easily gotten this done by writing that check, costing them millions if not billions, and costing the consumer more money to buy the product, leading to fewer people buying it, leading to a smaller market which leads to less 3rd party games, which leads to even fewer people buying it, which potentially leads to the failure of the platform altogether. And no, that's not a exaggeration, releasing a very big, very hot, very expensive (even with the PS3's $500 and $600 setup that would be a big loss, you're talking about another $120 or more tacked onto the production cost) console would have been a serious, serious problem for Microsoft. They could have accomplished the same thing (BC) with free emulation, leading to none of those side effects and saving them money, and yet you do not see this. That is what says "dumbass" about your comments.

[Zenien]

EXACTLY.......AND 'ZENIEN' KNOWS THAT, BUT IS TOO STUBBORN TO ADMIT IT.

It's rich that you say I'm stuborn, that's a hypocritical statement right there.

Anyway look at it this way, Microsoft could have alloted twice or three times the budget to their BC efforts, gotten a lot more titles up and running, and it wouldn't have put anywhere near a dent in their company. For the 4 billion they've lost on the Xbox brand they've made tens of billions through the rest of the company at the same time. How much do you think they spent on BC? A million? Maybe 3-5 being extremely generous?

It's MICROSOFT, they could sell the 360 premium right now for 200 dollars and come out of it with Billions in earnings every year.

You're just too stubborn to admit that Microsoft didn't do everything in their power to make games BC, like you claimed a ways back.

If Microsoft did everything in its power, for one thing, as you claim they did for BC on the 360, there's nothing that could stop them, provided it was legal of course.

Had the suitable motivation, they could have gotten nearly every title or what would essentially be every title, working.

[LongDong]

It's rich that you say I'm stuborn, that's a hypocritical statement right there.

Anyway look at it this way, Microsoft could have alloted twice or three times the budget to their BC efforts, gotten a lot more titles up and running, and it wouldn't have put anywhere near a dent in their company. For the 4 billion they've lost on the Xbox brand they've made tens of billions through the rest of the company at the same time. How much do you think they spent on BC? A million? Maybe 3-5 being extremely generous?

It's MICROSOFT, they could sell the 360 premium right now for 200 dollars and come out of it with Billions in earnings every year.

You're just too stubborn to admit that Microsoft didn't do everything in their power to make games BC, like you claimed a ways back.

If Microsoft did everything in its power, for one thing, as you claim they did for BC on the 360, there's nothing that could stop them, provided it was legal of course.

Had the suitable motivation, they could have gotten nearly every title or what would essentially be every title, working.

Exactly

[Zenien]

THWIP is doing the whole "You got me so I'm going to make a really long post using :rolleyes: and :o a lot"

[THWIP*]

It's rich that you say I'm stuborn, that's a hypocritical statement right there.

Anyway look at it this way, Microsoft could have alloted twice or three times the budget to their BC efforts, gotten a lot more titles up and running, and it wouldn't have put anywhere near a dent in their company. For the 4 billion they've lost on the Xbox brand they've made tens of billions through the rest of the company at the same time. How much do you think they spent on BC? A million? Maybe 3-5 being extremely generous?

It's MICROSOFT, they could sell the 360 premium right now for 200 dollars and come out of it with Billions in earnings every year.

You're just too stubborn to admit that Microsoft didn't do everything in their power to make games BC, like you claimed a ways back.

If Microsoft did everything in its power, for one thing, as you claim they did for BC on the 360, there's nothing that could stop them, provided it was legal of course.

Had the suitable motivation, they could have gotten nearly every title or what would essentially be every title, working.


THE 'XBOX' DIVISION IS A SEPARATE ENTITY, WHICH HAS TO BE ACCOUNTABLE, AND CONVINCE SHAREHOLDERS THEY CAN PRODUCE A VIABLE, PROFITABLE COMMODITY, LIKE THE OTHER DIVISIONS WITHIN THE COMPANY. AT THIS POINT, THEY'RE STILL ON "PROBATION", SO TO SPEAK, WITH ALOT LEFT TO PROVE. THEY COULDN'T WRECKLESSLY THROW $$ AT SOMETHING, THAT WASN'T KEY TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE PLATFORM......PARTICULARLY WHEN IT WOULDN'T GUARANTEE ANY MORE SUCCESS, AND WOULD CERTAINLY TAKE $$ AWAY FROM OTHER AREAS.

LOOK AT 'SONY'. THEIR STOCKHOLDERS ARE CHOMPING AT THE BIT, BECAUSE 'SONY'S ELECTRONICS DIVISION'S MARKET SHARE AND VALUE IS 1/2 OF WHAT IT WAS 6 YEARS AGO. DON'T YOU THINK, IF THEY COULD, THEY'D LEVERAGE THEIR EARNINGS FROM, SAY, THE 'SPIDER-MAN' MOVIES, IF THEY COULD? BUT THEY CAN'T......IT'S A SEPARATE ENTITY, AND THAT $$ ISN'T THEIRS TO MESS WITH.

IT'S NOT A MATTER OF DOING "EVERYTHING IN YOUR POWER", 'ZENIEN'......STOP BEING SO SIMPLE-MINDED AND DITZY.

[THWIP*]

THWIP is doing the whole "You got me so I'm going to make a really long post using :rolleyes: and :o a lot"


NO, 'ZENIEN', I JUST HAD ABOUT 5 PHONECALLS IN A ROW. DON'T PRETEND TO UNDERSTAND ME......YOU'RE NOT EVEN IN MY LEAGUE.

[THWIP*]

Exactly


NO, NOT EXACTLY......UNLESS YOU'RE EQUALLY AS STUBBORN AND IGNORANT AS 'ZENIEN'.


BUT THEN AGAIN..... :o

[LongDong]

Yes, MS could have easily gotten this done by writing that check, costing them millions if not billions, and costing the consumer more money to buy the product, leading to fewer people buying it, leading to a smaller market which leads to less 3rd party games, which leads to even fewer people buying it, which potentially leads to the failure of the platform altogether. And no, that's not a exaggeration, releasing a very big, very hot, very expensive (even with the PS3's $500 and $600 setup that would be a big loss, you're talking about another $120 or more tacked onto the production cost) console would have been a serious, serious problem for Microsoft. They could have accomplished the same thing (BC) with free emulation, leading to none of those side effects and saving them money, and yet you do not see this. That is what says "dumbass" about your comments.

Obviously you know nothing about business and you are throwing numbers out that you probably read on some blog somewhere. Microsoft would not have had to spend BILLIONS of dollars to get this done. Do you understand how much even 1 million dollars is? AT MOST this would have cost them a few million. They do NOT need to pass this on to the consumer as they certainly did not pass on all of the cost of the XBOX OR the 360 to the consumer. MS as a whole is a VASTLY PROFITABLE business, and taking a loss on the 360 would have garnered them MORE support from the fan base. There are plenty of people sitting on the fence who have not purchased a 360 due to the limited library of games, however were it BC then they would have. I am one of those people. WHY buy a machine that plays next gen when the number of worthwhile next gen games is very low? However in order to have one or two next gen games I would have bought this machine if it played my old games.

They make a massive amount of profit off of other products to be able to absorb a slightly bigger loss on the 360. That would have been a smart move as they would sell more units and have a higher amount of these units in the consumers hands and homes. This will be a big factor in the PS3 Juggernaut being the number one system again (if they get it figured out which knowing Sony they probably will)

So what it would have cost Microsoft another 5 million (drop in the bucket to them especially when dividing it by the number of 360's sold and for sale) but it would also have help them sell more of these machines and give them a greater foothold for when the PS3 launches.

Stupid move MS, stupid move.

[Zenien]

Actually it is loser, because you specifically refered to Microsoft the entity, and said they did everything in their power.

And suprise suprise, yes THWIP, seperate devisions have their own accountability, but the point of a good company is having those seperate devisions working together as the whole of the greater company. Do you really think, Microsoft, one of the smartest and most underhanded buisinesses in history, doesn't see the big picture? That they, or their share holders really only look at the beans being counted. They know everything is a means to an end. Microsoft is a company that's prepared to bleed millions to take over a market they fell is important, regardless of the money it costs them, because after they've taken over, they're making all that money back.

Alloting a slightly bigger budget to BC wouldn't be outside of the realm of possibility for a company with the style of Microsoft, and at the end of the day, as you seem to have missed the point, they clearly never did everything in their power, even within their own little new focal point of the company Xbox devision.

You DO take a look at their quarterly statements don't you? You know have many devisions have been operating at a loss for years? And as long as that section is making headway to position Microsoft to where Microsoft wants to be in thata rea, they give them practically a blank check to do it. The Xbox devision is one of those devisions THWIP.

And with all your rambling, you're avoiding the issue and did nothign but manufacture flimsy excuses. Point stands Microsoft didn't do everything in their power to enable BC.

[THWIP*]

Obviously you know nothing about business and you are throwing numbers out that you probably read on some blog somewhere. Microsoft would not have had to spend BILLIONS of dollars to get this done. Do you understand how much even 1 million dollars is? AT MOST this would have cost them a few million. They do NOT need to pass this on to the consumer as they certainly did not pass on all of the cost of the XBOX OR the 360 to the consumer. MS as a whole is a VASTLY PROFITABLE business, and taking a loss on the 360 would have garnered them MORE support from the fan base. There are plenty of people sitting on the fence who have not purchased a 360 due to the limited library of games, however were it BC then they would have. I am one of those people. WHY buy a machine that plays next gen when the number of worthwhile next gen games is very low? However in order to have one or two next gen games I would have bought this machine if it played my old games.

They make a massive amount of profit off of other products to be able to absorb a slightly bigger loss on the 360. That would have been a smart move as they would sell more units and have a higher amount of these units in the consumers hands and homes. This will be a big factor in the PS3 Juggernaut being the number one system again (if they get it figured out which knowing Sony they probably will)

So what it would have cost Microsoft another 5 million (drop in the bucket to them especially when dividing it by the number of 360's sold and for sale) but it would also have help them sell more of these machines and give them a greater foothold for when the PS3 launches.

Stupid move MS, stupid move.


YOUR IGNORANCE IS ASTOUNDING. :dry:

[CM Punk]

Let's assume that the chipset would cost them $100. That's extremely cheap, even in bulk, but let's just assume that that is the cost. How many 360's does Microsoft intend to sell? 20 million? More? I would hope not, because that's a $2,000,000,000 loss right there. And the price won't necessarily go down with time, that was part of the reason Microsoft actually sued nVidia and went with ATI this time around, because of their refusal to lower costs (they weren't obligated by contract to do this and had no competitive incentive, so they didn't). But yeah, I'm sure I "obviously know nothing about business" and that I should listen to the guy that is honestly suggesting that Microsoft should throw away billions of dollars for no other reason than "they can". Roflcopter.

[Zenien]

Yeah going with the chipset would have been a bad idea. Especially dealing with Nvidia.

NO, 'ZENIEN', I JUST HAD ABOUT 5 PHONECALLS IN A ROW. DON'T PRETEND TO UNDERSTAND ME......YOU'RE NOT EVEN IN MY LEAGUE.

Yeah, sure old man. http://media.teamxbox.com/forum/smilies/lol.gif

The Xbox division can't just piss money away, they have to show some fiscal responsibility, yes, that's what the 360 was designed around, actually turning a profit for them. But doubling the BC budget would have been next to nothing on the overall cost impact of the project, it's not like it would have made or broke them in terms of costs. And even this whole discussion is entirely seperate from your original statement.

[LongDong]

YOUR IGNORANCE IS ASTOUNDING. :dry:

My ignorance? HAHAHAHAHAHA

Well spoken fanboy, well spoken

[CM Punk]

My ignorance? HAHAHAHAHAHA

Well spoken fanboy, well spoken
LongDong: Now featuring ironic posts!

[LongDong]

Let's assume that the chipset would cost them $100. That's extremely cheap, even in bulk, but let's just assume that that is the cost. How many 360's does Microsoft intend to sell? 20 million? More? I would hope not, because that's a $2,000,000,000 loss right there. And the price won't necessarily go down with time, that was part of the reason Microsoft actually sued nVidia and went with ATI this time around, because of their refusal to lower costs (they weren't obligated by contract to do this and had no competitive incentive, so they didn't). But yeah, I'm sure I "obviously know nothing about business" and that I should listen to the guy that is honestly suggesting that Microsoft should throw away billions of dollars for no other reason than "they can". Roflcopter.

Again with the billions, and you are roflcoptor which answers every question about you and makes anything you say hardly worth the time it takes to read them.

[THWIP*]

Point stands Microsoft didn't do everything in their power to enable BC.


ALL OF YOUR BULLS**T, SUMMED UP IN ONE TIRED STATEMENT.

THEY DID, 'ZENIEN'......AS MUCH AS WAS PRACTICAL AND LOGICAL.......AND I'VE COVERED THE HOW AND WHY OF IT TOO MUCH TO BOTHER WITH IT AGAIN. BUT GO AHEAD, IGNORE THE FACTS, SPEW YOUR FLUFF AND BULLS**T, AND PAT YOURSELF ON THE BACK FOR BEING AN IGNORANT TWIT.


ONE QUESTION: HOW MANY 'XBOX' GAMES DO YOU HAVE IN YOUR LIBRARY, AND HOW MANY DO YOU CURRENTLY PLAY?

[THWIP*]

My ignorance? HAHAHAHAHAHA

Well spoken fanboy, well spoken



YES......YOUR IGNORANCE. AND ONLY THE TRULY IGNORANT, CAN LAUGH AT THEMSELVES, IN SPITE OF THAT INGORANCE.

[Zenien]

ALL OF YOUR BULLS**T, SUMMED UP IN ONE TIRED STATEMENT.

THEY DID, 'ZENIEN'......AS MUCH AS WAS PRACTICAL AND LOGICAL.......AND I'VE COVERED THE HOW AND WHY OF IT TOO MUCH TO BOTHER WITH IT AGAIN. BUT GO AHEAD, IGNORE THE FACTS, SPEW YOUR FLUFF AND BULLS**T, AND PAT YOURSELF ON THE BACK FOR BEING AN IGNORANT TWIT.


ONE QUESTION: HOW MANY 'XBOX' GAMES DO YOU HAVE IN YOUR LIBRARY, AND HOW MANY DO YOU CURRENTLY PLAY?

Xbox games? 6

Currently Play? I played Halo 2 last week.Haven't replayed KoToR in a while, and I haven't touched Oblivion in months.

EDIT: I'll be getting Mass Effect series, Bioshock, Blue Dragon, and probably Lost Odessy.

Why do you ask?

[CM Punk]

Again with the billions, and you are roflcoptor which answers every question about you and makes anything you say hardly worth the time it takes to read them.
I am roflcopter...and this answers your questions? Is that even english? And yes, again with the billions...that's called math. Take "100" and multiple it by "20 million", and you get a number in the "billions". That's how that whole "math" thing works. Pretty nifty, eh? Then again, I guess it only works to prove your point when you're not dealing with someone with the intelligence of a house pet, so I probably made a mistake in including it with my post.

[Axid]

DOA+ XBL Gold+ GMOD= happy happy joy joy.....so.......get working on that now.....:(

[Axid]

I am roflcopter...and this answers your questions? Is that even english? And yes, again with the billions...that's called math. Take "100" and multiple it by "20 million", and you get a number in the "billions". That's how that whole "math" thing works. Pretty nifty, eh? Then again, I guess it only works to prove your point when you're not dealing with someone with the intelligence of a house pet, so I probably made a mistake in including it with my post.

My user name was roflcopter :O

[Zenien]

I'll get Gmod working tonight. :cmad:

[블라스]

http://www.rockingham.k12.va.us/sound_sorting/initial_consonants/y/images/yawn.jpg

[LongDong]

YES......YOUR IGNORANCE. AND ONLY THE TRULY IGNORANT, CAN LAUGH AT THEMSELVES, IN SPITE OF THAT INGORANCE.

Ummmm, I was actually laughing at you

[LongDong]

I am roflcopter...and this answers your questions? Is that even english? And yes, again with the billions...that's called math. Take "100" and multiple it by "20 million", and you get a number in the "billions". That's how that whole "math" thing works. Pretty nifty, eh? Then again, I guess it only works to prove your point when you're not dealing with someone with the intelligence of a house pet, so I probably made a mistake in including it with my post.

As if you know what Microsofts rates on chips are. That puts you out of the argument dude. Unless you work for them you have no clue. Stop your speculations and come with hard numbers then you can join the party.

[SpiderFan17]

As a storage medium, storage capacity would be the most important thing, and that's an area where Blu-Ray has much more than a "slight" advantage. TDK has already produced a 200GB Blu-Ray sextuple layer disc. The biggest HD-DVD in existence is a triple layer 90GB disc. That's way more than "slight". Getting away from storage capacity, there's the Java support for Blu-Ray, which in the future could lead to some pretty cool stuff, and the "Durabis" coating which can actually take an attack from a screwdriver and iron wool without a problem, which are both big technological leaps over what HD-DVD offers. Blu-Ray, at least on paper, is better than HD-DVD. The problem is that they haven't managed to translate that "on paper" to "in real life" yet, and if things keep going the way they're going, they may never get the chance to.
The biggest HD-DVD is a 90 gig disk, and eventually as you mentioned Blu ray will get to a 200 gig disk. That's good, but what you fail to realize is these are not endpoints of the formats. Both can go further. How are you to know that HD cant match or eclipse blu ray's storage, or even the reverse. The technology for advancement is in both, it just so happens right now Blu Ray is ahead.

Blu ray has java support. That's good, but where is the implementation? HD-DVD's have what's called the "in-movie experience" which is like a running commentary/documentary that runs in the lower corner of the screen, synching with the film. It's been implemented in a whopping 4 movies. Both have exclusive technology that's being underused. Explain to me why Java support is such a tide-turning feature. Not discounting it at all, that could potentially be very good for making blu ray movies feel "different", but I highly doubt the format wars will be tipped because of it.

As far as the coating thing, again, not a tide-turning feature.

I was hoping you had some revolutionary info about hidden codec support that hasn't been mentioned yet, because as you've mentioned, Blu ray is definitely lagging behind. I can definitely say blu ray is lagging largely in part to the codecs (as well as the price. When a consumer looking at both in a best buy sees Full Metal Jacket on HD DVD for 7 bucks less than Blu-ray, which is he gonna pick?)