The New Masters of Evil

[The Overlord]

Who would you put on a team of Masters of Evil designed to combat the New Avengers?

[The Joker]

Hobgoblin, Red Skull, Bullseye, Mandarin/or possibly Crimson Dynamo, Taskmaster, Purple Man

[The IronMan]

Dr Octopus
Mr. Hyde
The Ghost
Task Master
Count Nefaria
Iron Monger

[Upset Spideyfan]

Hobgoblin, Red Skull, Bullseye, Mandarin/or possibly Crimson Dynamo, Taskmaster, Purple Man


That's a good line-up except for Hobgoblin. I don't think the Roderick Hobgoblin ever joined any of the Sinister Six teams.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong here, but he doesn't seem the kind to join a supervillain team for kicks.

I know Venom's over-exposed as it is but I think he'd be a good replacement for Hobby there.

[Anubis]

If you're gonna have a Masters of Evil then you gotta have some seriously evil motha f**ka's.

If only Zemo weren't an anti hero, he'd work well as the leader, but that's not the case at the moment.

So, I'm thinking, he's not in charge of Hydra anymore, so what's he got left? Why not lead the Masters. Baron Strucker

I want some real power on this team, so, lets go with Abomination.

A guy I'd like to see be reinvented as a top tier baddy, Omega Red.

Enchantress is dead as far as we know, so how about we go with another really powerful mage, Morgan Le Fay and lets bring along her Black Knight as well.

I like the idea of Purple Man on the team. He is truly an evil sumb***h.

Former Black Widow, turned super powered mechina hybrid monster, The Black Adaptoid or whatever her name now is.

And finally, somebody with the technical expertise. Smart, and vicious at the same time, I'm thinking Osborne. Time to move this guy into the big leagues as a serious global threat.

This would truly be a team worthy of the name "Masters of Evil" IMO.

[The Overlord]

If you're gonna have a Masters of Evil then you gotta have some seriously evil motha f**ka's.

If only Zemo weren't an anti hero, he'd work well as the leader, but that's not the case at the moment.

So, I'm thinking, he's not in charge of Hydra anymore, so what's he got left? Why not lead the Masters. Baron Strucker

I want some real power on this team, so, lets go with Abomination.

A guy I'd like to see be reinvented as a top tier baddy, Omega Red.

Enchantress is dead as far as we know, so how about we go with another really powerful mage, Morgan Le Fay and lets bring along her Black Knight as well.

I like the idea of Purple Man on the team. He is truly an evil sumb***h.

Former Black Widow, turned super powered mechina hybrid monster, The Black Adaptoid or whatever her name now is.

And finally, somebody with the technical expertise. Smart, and vicious at the same time, I'm thinking Osborne. Time to move this guy into the big leagues as a serious global threat.

This would truly be a team worthy of the name "Masters of Evil" IMO.

The thing is its not realstic to expect individuals who are that evil to work together, they would be at eachother throats after a little while, they wouldn't have the team work skills to pull it off, here is who I would go with:

Leader: Red Skull, Cap is the leader of the New Avengers so the leader of the new MoE should be his arch nemesis.

Electro: Powerful, takes orders, easily manipulated due his low intelligence and low self esteem, plus he has a grudge against the New Avengers.

Sabertooth: dangerous and has been willing to take orders in the past. Makes a good counter to Wolverine.

Count Nefaria: The team's power house, recruited to counter Sentry. he has a bit of ego, so he can clash with the Skull for leadership, but the Skull will manage to outfox him despite the Count's superior power.

Mr. Hyde: Powerful enough to take on Luke Cage in a fist fight, has been in a group before and his evil personality will be a delight to the Skull.

Silver Samurai: An enemy of Spider-Woman, with underworld connections, martial arts training and sleath abilities.

Typhoid Mary: A deadly assassin with good fighting skills and mental powers. She is very crazy, but she has worked with the Kingpin in the past, so she can take orders, good counter to Echo.

Crimson Dynamo: A good counter to Iron Man.

[freemadison]

A guy I'd like to see be reinvented as a top tier baddy, Omega Red.

Ooooo me too :up:

[3dman27]

If you're gonna have a Masters of Evil then you gotta have some seriously evil motha f**ka's.

If only Zemo weren't an anti hero, he'd work well as the leader, but that's not the case at the moment.

So, I'm thinking, he's not in charge of Hydra anymore, so what's he got left? Why not lead the Masters. Baron Strucker

I want some real power on this team, so, lets go with Abomination.

A guy I'd like to see be reinvented as a top tier baddy, Omega Red.

Enchantress is dead as far as we know, so how about we go with another really powerful mage, Morgan Le Fay and lets bring along her Black Knight as well.

I like the idea of Purple Man on the team. He is truly an evil sumb***h.

Former Black Widow, turned super powered mechina hybrid monster, The Black Adaptoid or whatever her name now is.

And finally, somebody with the technical expertise. Smart, and vicious at the same time, I'm thinking Osborne. Time to move this guy into the big leagues as a serious global threat.

This would truly be a team worthy of the name "Masters of Evil" IMO.i see your point about the wizard of osborn most of all:gg:

[Union Jack]

i guess if i band was to form(even tho this team is VER unlikely) of proper malevolence..

Red Skull
Green Goblin
Doctor Doom
Ultron
Mr.sinister
Baron Zemo
The Leader
Baron Blood

thats a nasty ass villianous team..

[Anubis]

The thing is its not realstic to expect individuals who are that evil to work together, they would be at eachother throats after a little while, they wouldn't have the team work skills to pull it off, here is who I would go with:

Leader: Red Skull, Cap is the leader of the New Avengers so the leader of the new MoE should be his arch nemesis.

Electro: Powerful, takes orders, easily manipulated due his low intelligence and low self esteem, plus he has a grudge against the New Avengers.

Sabertooth: dangerous and has been willing to take orders in the past. Makes a good counter to Wolverine.

Count Nefaria: The team's power house, recruited to counter Sentry. he has a bit of ego, so he can clash with the Skull for leadership, but the Skull will manage to outfox him despite the Count's superior power.

Mr. Hyde: Powerful enough to take on Luke Cage in a fist fight, has been in a group before and his evil personality will be a delight to the Skull.

Silver Samurai: An enemy of Spider-Woman, with underworld connections, martial arts training and sleath abilities.

Typhoid Mary: A deadly assassin with good fighting skills and mental powers. She is very crazy, but she has worked with the Kingpin in the past, so she can take orders, good counter to Echo.

Crimson Dynamo: A good counter to Iron Man.

The team you have set up would have pretty much the same problem. I mean, theres noway in hell Neferia's taking orders from the Skull. And the reason I didn't use him is because I don't think he'd want to take up somebody else's failed team and reform it. Strucker on the other hand....

The team I set up would have that problem, but in the form of Strucker butting heads with Morgan Le Fay. But after all, they are a very powerful team, and the Avengers will win no matter what. bickering over leadership might be the answer as to the fatal flaw that will bring them down.

[The Overlord]

The team you have set up would have pretty much the same problem. I mean, theres noway in hell Neferia's taking orders from the Skull. And the reason I didn't use him is because I don't think he'd want to take up somebody else's failed team and reform it. Strucker on the other hand....

The team I set up would have that problem, but in the form of Strucker butting heads with Morgan Le Fay. But after all, they are a very powerful team, and the Avengers will win no matter what. bickering over leadership might be the answer as to the fatal flaw that will bring them down.

Strucker has no experience leading a team of williful individauls, he only has experience ordering around the brain washed drones at Hydra, what evidence is there that he could take people with independent minds?

[Anubis]

What evidence is there that he couldn't?

[The Overlord]

What evidence is there that he couldn't?

None perhaps, but I have never seen him do it and I don't have any reason to believe he could.

[The Joker]

That's a good line-up except for Hobgoblin. I don't think the Roderick Hobgoblin ever joined any of the Sinister Six teams.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong here, but he doesn't seem the kind to join a supervillain team for kicks.

I know Venom's over-exposed as it is but I think he'd be a good replacement for Hobby there.

I just want to see him back doing something :(...you could solve that problem with the Purple Man's involvement though. Have one of the other members get him so he can control the others with is aura :o

[LadyMoira]

Baron Zemo as the Evil Leader and Mastermind.

Songbird-his lover and partner in crime.

Purple Man because he's a truly evil perverse bastard; and because we've established he can be made to take orders by Baron Zemo.

Norman Osborne-Cruel, bloodthirsty, a technoligical genius, kicks ass...he belongs in the big time especially now Spidey's an avenger. Would work with Zemo to further his own territory.

Typhoid Mary-because she's so much fun, and she's worked in teams before.

The Leader-He and Baron Zemo got along just fine Mighty Avengers #4!

Morgan Le Fey-every team of supervillains needs a great mystic in the black arts. It's a rule!

[Kitsune]

i guess if i band was to form(even tho this team is VER unlikely) of proper malevolence..

Red Skull
Green Goblin
Doctor Doom
Ultron
Mr.sinister
Baron Zemo
The Leader
Baron Blood

thats a nasty ass villianous team..
I don't think Ultron could get passed his "Must kill all humans" syndrome to work well with others.

[The Question]

Here's how I see it happening:


To regain power and respect, Count Luchino Nefaria topples several criminal organizations, mostly Mafia, throughout the midwest and sets himself up as Cappi Di Tutti Capi of America's heartland. To help enforce his new territory, he forms the Masters, using past members and new recruits. The roster is:

The Green Goblin: Aswell as being one of Nefaria's cheif superhuman enforcers, Osbon helps control the legitimate enterprises of Nefaria's organization, under the alias of William Harrison. His homicidal tendencies and obsessive need to take revenge against the smallest insults has made him somewhat of a liability to the Masters.

Hippolyta: The leader of the Amazons of myth, Hypolita, and her all female gang, the Bacchae, have joined Nefaria's organization as a means of gaining more power. Aswell as being an enforcer for the Masters, Hippolyta is in charge of recruiting and training footsoldiers for Nefaria's organization. Nefaria has been careful to stress the fact that the Masters are equal partners, and Nefaria is only seen as the leader due to his skills at diplomacy, as to keep the strong willed Hippolyta and other members of the group from rebelling.

Tiger Shark: Serves primairily as an enforcer for the Masters.

Klaw: The team's cheif scientists.

Taskmaster: The team's go to guy for stealth assassinations. He also helps train new recruits as part of an elite squad for special missions.

The Abomination: Major powerhouse and enforcer for the Masters. Also serves as the group's source of knowlege relating to various government operations, both military and burocratic, all over the world.

[VICTORVONDOOMX]

The team Tony Stark would build appeared at the end of Civil War #4.

(Translation: Everyone at Marvel smokes crack.... Joe's)

[LadyMoira]

The team Tony Stark would build appeared at the end of Civil War #4.



Yeah, but frankly I don't think they're all that good a team or all that interesting. Heck, I even don't even recognize some of these villains. Right now, I almost think the Thunderbolts should just rename themselves the Masters of Evil. Baron Zemo...now there's a villainous mastermind!

[jaydawg]

See the problem with making the "ultimate" masters of evil is that every big time badass would want to be leader. Can you see Norman "I engineered the whole ****ing Clone Saga" Osborn taking orders from, say, Dr.Doom? Would the Abomination take kindly to being dismissed by the Count Nefaria?

So basically, you've got to have some really sweet leader, my suggestion being Red Skull, and a couple of B and C listers to fill out the rest.

[LadyMoira]

I see your reasoning though obviously, I'm more partial to Baron Zemo being top dawg and then filling it out with super-strong but not neccessarily all too bright fellow bad guys-or naturally cowardly, (though still sadistic) figures like the Purple. The problem with smart bad guys who have spines is they can never learn to share with the other evil masterminds. Tsk, tsk, ruins their plans for world domination everytime!

[Anubis]

Either you're gonna have infighting (With a truly powerful and capable group with big egos) or incompetence (with one decent leader and a bunch of screw ups.) when dealing with super villains. In the end, you just have to pick your poison.

[The Question]

I'd go with infighting. Especially since it is possible to overcome infighting, whereas you're kind of stuck with incompitence.

[LadyMoira]

Infighting is often more interesting than incompetance so I'd have to go with that as well. Seriously Doctor Doom and Norman Osborne arguing over who was the bigger baddie? That's entertainment!

[Anubis]

They're the bad guys. They're gonna lose in the end, theres no debating that. The question is simply how.

[The Question]

They're the bad guys. They're gonna lose in the end, theres no debating that. The question is simply how.

That's an overly simplistic way of looking at it.

[Anubis]

There's always an exception to the rule, but seriously, they always loose. They might accomplish quite a bit here and there. God like power. Destroying half the universe. Taking Avengers HQ and beating Herc into a coma. Even taking over the entire world, destroying Washington, and putting heroes into concentration camps. But in the end, when it's all said and done, they lose. It's a fact of superhero comics. At least when dealing with storied continuities like the DCU or the MU. Now, I'd love to see what would happen if the Masters actually succeed in killing the Avengers and then taking over the world. But you're likely never to see that outside of a What if or something.

[The Question]

Again, that's just far too simplistic for me. Personally, I like to see it as a never ending game of chess. The heroes lose some peices, and the villains lose some peices. It goes back and forth and back and forth and it's not going to stop until they're all dead. At least, that's how I prefer it.

[Anubis]

Yeah, an ongoing collective of villains, constantly trying to achieve their goals, losing here and there, but still managing to achieve something of a victory here and there. Works for me.

[LadyMoira]

Again, that's just far too simplistic for me. Personally, I like to see it as a never ending game of chess. The heroes lose some peices, and the villains lose some peices. It goes back and forth and back and forth and it's not going to stop until they're all dead. At least, that's how I prefer it.

I concur. Green Goblin never quite defeats Spiderman but Spidey never manages to vanquish Green Goblin for good either...it's a never ending dance. It continues with Batman and the Joker, Superman and Lex Luthor, Charles Xavier and Magneto etc. etc. And along the way there are a number of casualties on both sides.

[Kitsune]

I concur. Green Goblin never quite defeats Spiderman but Spidey never manages to vanquish Green Goblin for good either...it's a never ending dance. It continues with Batman and the Joker, Superman and Lex Luthor, Charles Xavier and Magneto etc. etc. And along the way there are a number of casualties on both sides.
The orginal Green Goblin should have stayed dead... I will never forgive Byrne for bringing him back.

[The Question]

Yeah, an ongoing collective of villains, constantly trying to achieve their goals, losing here and there, but still managing to achieve something of a victory here and there. Works for me.

Exactly. I can see most smash and grab bank robber types like the Wrecking crew getting caught alot because smash and grab bank jobs are generally very hastily done and leave tons of evidence behind. But major mafioso and/or terrorist organizations should have about a 50/50 record. I would see a proper group of Masters being a combination of both.

[deemar325]

NEW
MASTERS OF EVIL

Red Skull - Elected figurehead of the organization.
Taskmaster - He's here for the money and prestige.
Bullseye - Also here for the cash and Red Skull has taken Bullseye under his wing. *Frightening thought!*
Count Nerfaria - Provides finacial support and is the "Power house" of the group.
Green Goblin - The "Brains" Norman will use his vast intellect for more than just abusing Spider-man.
Madame Hydra - She provides the man-power and resources.
Lady Deathstrike - Asked to join, because of her formidable fighting skills and fascist views.
Mandarin - Vast and adaptable powers and access to alien technology, Mandarin will be Red Skull's greatest rival within the group.
Purpleman - Keeps the others in line.

[The Question]

The problem with the Red Skull is the whole Nazi thing. Even most criminals would have problems working with a Nazi.

[Anubis]

I thought he was a nihilist now.

[The Question]

Really? So, what, no he hates everyone, not just everyone who isn't a straight, white, physically fit and highly inteligent christian?

[Kitsune]

NEW
MASTERS OF EVIL

Red Skull - Elected figurehead of the organization.
Taskmaster - He's here for the money and prestige.
Bullseye - Also here for the cash and Red Skull has taken Bullseye under his wing. *Frightening thought!*
Count Nerfaria - Provides finacial support and is the "Power house" of the group.
Green Goblin - The "Brains" Norman will use his vast intellect for more than just abusing Spider-man.
Madame Hydra - She provides the man-power and resources.
Lady Deathstrike - Asked to join, because of her formidable fighting skills and fascist views.
Mandarin - Vast and adaptable powers and access to alien technology, Mandarin will be Red Skull's greatest rival within the group.




Two many "Leaders" and not enough followers. Hydra, Mandrin, Lady Deathstrike all tend to be leaders. Norman Osborn has been dead since before I read comics.

[The Question]

Don't forget Count Nefaria. I mean, he used to be the mafia don who's ass Wilson Fisk would kiss before the FBI had The Avengers take his organization down.

[deemar325]

The problem with the Red Skull is the whole Nazi thing. Even most criminals would have problems working with a Nazi.

True, but all the characters I chose are in some way elitists or easily swayed by finacial gain only Deathstrike would need a specific reason for joining such a group and my reasoning is that Mandarin brought her in as his "consort/advisor".

Taskmaster would join for the money and the status, Bullseye the same and add that with my notion of Red Skull sort of playing the "Apt Pupil" role with Pointdexter, being the father figure to such a mentally deseased man. Count Nefaria is Uber elitist and no stranger to fascist views.

Basically all these guys are pure evil, so what if the guy in charge is a Nazi?

[The Question]

True, but all the characters I chose are in some way elitists or easily swayed by finacial gain only Deathstrike would need a specific reason for joining such a group and my reasoning is that Mandarin brought her in as his "consort/advisor".

Taskmaster would join for the money and the status, Bullseye the same and add that with my notion of Red Skull sort of playing the "Apt Pupil" role with Pointdexter, being the father figure to such a mentally deseased man. Count Nefaria is Uber elitist and no stranger to fascist views.

Basically all these guys are pure evil, so what if the guy in charge is a Nazi?

Eh. With most people, it's simply that "Nazi = Evil" is ingraned in their brains. Bullseye wouldn't care, since he's bassically one notch above a serial killer, and Taskmaster is a never ask questions type, but I'm sure Deathstrike and Mandarine would care, primairilu because they're asian and thus veiwed as racially impure by the Nazis, so they'd be constantly worried that The Red Skull would stab them in the back. Nefaria would also probably worry about The Red Skull, since he's a more old school mafia type. Those guys thrive much better in a Democracy than a fascist regime. Plus, even a guy like Nefaria would find the actions of the Nazis completely apalling.

[deemar325]

Two many "Leaders" and not enough followers. Hydra, Mandrin, Lady Deathstrike all tend to be leaders. Norman Osborn has been dead since before I read comics.

That's the point, it's sorta like DC's Society, with Red Skull as "Chairman" each person has resources that would aid them as a whole with Bullseye and Deathstrike more as "Field Generals".

Occasionally the entire group will go into battle, usually after the fruition of their evil plans and as a chance to gloat in front of their archenemies of course.

[deemar325]

Eh. With most people, it's simply that "Nazi = Evil" is ingraned in their brains. Bullseye wouldn't care, since he's bassically one notch above a serial killer, and Taskmaster is a never ask questions type, but I'm sure Deathstrike and Mandarine would care, primairilu because they're asian and thus veiwed as racially impure by the Nazis, so they'd be constantly worried that The Red Skull would stab them in the back. Nefaria would also probably worry about The Red Skull, since he's a more old school mafia type. Those guys thrive much better in a Democracy than a fascist regime. Plus, even a guy like Nefaria would find the actions of the Nazis completely apalling.

Point take Q, as far as DS & Mandarin it would be like the Japanese/German relationship. Both benefit from their common goals that's why I posted in my initial idea that Mandarin would be the Skull's biggest rival.

Nefaria is a opportunist like any criminal, but my idea is the Count being swept up in the notion of ruling the world. His thinking would be (..and the deal he brokered with Red Skull..) that when they accomplish their goals Nefaria would rule a good chunk of the earth just like every other member of the MoE. I'm sure any moral objections he would have would go out the window if given the chance to live like his Roman ancestors "Nero/Ceasar etc..."

[The Question]

I guess. Still, I think most of them would feel really uncomfortable around The Red Skull. Especially when talk of "racial purity" comes up.

[deemar325]

I guess. Still, I think most of them would feel really uncomfortable around The Red Skull. Especially when talk of "racial purity" comes up.

Heh! Probaly. At least for the two "Yellow skinned" members, but do you really think Nefaria,Tasky,Bullseye,Purpleman,Osborn and Madame Hydra would care if a billion or so minorities die because of their actions? Mandarin and DS would make sure the Asians would survive everybody else screw'em!

[The Question]

Bullseye, Osborn, and Killgrave, probably not since they enjoy watching things die. Madam Hydra I'm not sure about. But Nefaria, Mandarin, and Deathstrike would all probably have problems with it.

[deemar325]

Madame Hydra is basically a Nazi, Hydra was formed on Nazi ideas "Baron Strucker" anyone?

Nefaria as I stated before would be swayed by power and becoming a latter day 'Alexander the Great'.

Mandarin and DS would probaly betray Red Skull at some point or expect to be turned on by RS, it's sorta like knowing your in a bad situation, but it's better than the alternative.

[The Question]

Madame Hydra is basically a Nazi, Hydra was formed on Nazi ideas "Baron Strucker" anyone?

True. Forgot about that.

Nefaria as I stated before would be swayed by power and becoming a latter day 'Alexander the Great'.

Still. Teaming with a Nazi would leave a bad staste in his mouth.

Mandarin and DS would probaly betray Red Skull at some point or expect to be turned on by RS, it's sorta like knowing your in a bad situation, but it's better than the alternative.

True.


Personally, I think the only flaw in your team is that there's far too much of a chance for backstabbing. If you want the group to be around for a good long while, at least.

[Galact-Gal]

Tsk, Tsk. Really, folks, what's to discuss? All you need are a bunch of Hand Ninjas.:woot:

[Alex Summers]

Is the Red Skull a nihilist now? I thought he just abandoned the ideals of the Nazi regime and went to anarchy instead. I guess one could say that anarchy and nihilism are similar in some ways.

[Kitsune]

Tsk, Tsk. Really, folks, what's to discuss? All you need are a bunch of Hand Ninjas.:woot:

Here you go.
:ninja: :ninja: :ninja: :ninja: :ninja: :ninja:

[MyPokerShirt]

Hobgoblin, Red Skull, Bullseye, Mandarin/or possibly Crimson Dynamo, Taskmaster, Purple Man


That's brilliant.

[LadyMoira]

Pretty good lineup deemar. I'm not sure that Red Skull would be postulating an ethnic purity this time so much as simple grabs for power with everyone sharing in the evil spoils while billions die. That wouldn't bother Killgrave as long as there were plenty of nubile young women to turn into his sex slaves, or Bullseye as long as there was money and people to throw things at, Hydra, Nefaria, Taskmaster, and Mandarin as long as they got their own countries. Norman would just want free reign for more madman like experiments and I think Deathstrike might be just too far gone into bloodlust to care either way.

[deemar325]

True. Forgot about that.



Still. Teaming with a Nazi would leave a bad staste in his mouth.



True.


Personally, I think the only flaw in your team is that there's far too much of a chance for backstabbing. If you want the group to be around for a good long while, at least.

Well I guess I should have explained the dynamic better?

OK here goes..

Red Skull's Camp and reasons why they are loyal to him:

Bullseye - He's in a morbid way has found the 'Father/Yoda/Obi-Won/Palpitine to his Darth Vader. Using BMB's take on Bulleye's past.
Taskmaster - Money,Money,Money!!! and also fear; Tasky is scared ****less of the evil and vision of the Skull, TM knows it's best to be on his goodside.
Madame Hydra - She admires Red Skull and holds the same values as him, simple as that. *Add to the fact he's probaly next to Captain America is her vision of the perfect 'Aryan' mate.*
Purpleman - He thinks Red Skull respects him and appreciates his talents, (Of course RS is playing him like a fiddel, the manipulator being manipulated by the ultimate false prophet.) Killgrave thinks he'll have a seat next to the throne of the future ruler of humanity.

Reasons why the less inclined are following Red Skull:

Mandarin - He sees the coming storm, he knows Red Skull is basically the 'Anti-Christ' yet, he also realizes it's not like the rest of the world is gonna welcome him 'Mandarin' with open arms. RS is a means to a end, nothing more. 'Mandy' seeks the Rise of the Chinese Empire and Red Skull will be disposed of at the proper time.
Deathstrike - Allied with Mandarin, she is his eyes,ears and fists. He needs a fellow 'Easterner' to conspire with and a 'wife' to rule with. Deathstrike welcomes the power and status of 'ruler' instead of hired assassin, she thinks it's time to climb the social ladder sorta speak.
Count Neferia - Greed gets to everyone, and if your already a egotistical, murdering, elitist bastard well organized crime doesn't have the same appeal as being the 'Ceasar' of the NEW ROMAN EMPIRE! and if genocide is part of the deal? "Well who cares if a few million 'Moulons', 'Heebs', 'Rag Heads' and '*******s' take the dirtnap?"

[deemar325]

Pretty good lineup deemar. I'm not sure that Red Skull would be postulating an ethnic purity this time so much as simple grabs for power with everyone sharing in the evil spoils while billions die. That wouldn't bother Killgrave as long as there were plenty of nubile young women to turn into his sex slaves, or Bullseye as long as there was money and people to throw things at, Hydra, Nefaria, Taskmaster, and Mandarin as long as they got their own countries. Norman would just want free reign for more madman like experiments and I think Deathstrike might be just too far gone into bloodlust to care either way.

Thanks!

And your take is right on the money also.



I just had the thought of Red Skull being a father figure to Bullseye incredibably frightening. Add the most skilled mercenary in Tasky, the mind controlling pervert Purpleman, Ms.Hitler 2007 Madame Hydra, Al Capone with superpowers Count Neferia, A woman who can kill just about anything Deathstrike, and the scariest forgiegn Invader since Fu Man Chu in one line-up as totally bad ass! and it should have happened already in the comics.

[Anubis]

Pretty cool D

[The Question]

Pretty cool. Still, I think Nefaria would be at odds with the Red Skull near the end. Most mafia types pride themselves as having a sort of twisted honor. They tend only kill someone if they've wronged "the family" in some way, and even then they'll often just beat the **** out of them to send a message. I think the story would probably end with Mandarin and Nefaria truning on The Red Skull after the latest body count (though, maybe different reasosn for The Mandarin. He's not shown himself shy towards mass murder. There was the story where he took control of Fin Fang Foom and wiped out several hundred Chinese soldiers in a coup d'état).

[deemar325]

Thank Nubis!

Your right Q it would probaly end that way, but that's kinda expected.

I'm more into the Bullseye/Red Skull/Purpleman/Madame Hydra dynamic anyway, sorta a 'NAZI BRADY BUNCH' scenario with Taskmaster as the sniveling 'Marsha Brady'.

[Vanguard07]

I'd like to see Nefaria running the show with Abomination, Klaw, Gravitron, Elektro, Venom/Gargan (Brock wouldnt have any interest in a team most likely but Gargan i could see running with it) and... lets say Omega Red and Sabertooth filling out the roster.

I see no obvious leadership conflicts and the team would be seriously dangerous.

[Doomed Hero Rising]

Bullseye is in the Thunderbolts.

[deemar325]

I'd like to see Nefaria running the show with Abomination, Klaw, Gravitron, Elektro, Venom/Gargan (Brock wouldnt have any interest in a team most likely but Gargan i could see running with it) and... lets say Omega Red and Sabertooth filling out the roster.

I see no obvious leadership conflicts and the team would be seriously dangerous.

I like your line-up alot!

Very respectable. Clear leadership.

[The Question]

Thank Nubis!

Your right Q it would probaly end that way, but that's kinda expected.

I'm more into the Bullseye/Red Skull/Purpleman/Madame Hydra dynamic anyway, sorta a 'NAZI BRADY BUNCH' scenario with Taskmaster as the sniveling 'Marsha Brady'.

Sounds pretty cool. Since Taskmaster's identity is pretty vague, it might be interesting to reveal that a major reason for Taskmaster being afraid of the others is the fact that at least one of his parents is an ethnic minority, or maybe that his family's Jewish.

[The Question]

I like your line-up alot!

Very respectable. Clear leadership.

What about my line-up?


Here's how I see it happening:


To regain power and respect, Count Luchino Nefaria topples several criminal organizations, mostly Mafia, throughout the midwest and sets himself up as Cappi Di Tutti Capi of America's heartland. To help enforce his new territory, he forms the Masters, using past members and new recruits. The roster is:

The Green Goblin: Aswell as being one of Nefaria's cheif superhuman enforcers, Osbon helps control the legitimate enterprises of Nefaria's organization, under the alias of William Harrison. His homicidal tendencies and obsessive need to take revenge against the smallest insults has made him somewhat of a liability to the Masters.

Hippolyta: The leader of the Amazons of myth, Hypolita, and her all female gang, the Bacchae, have joined Nefaria's organization as a means of gaining more power. Aswell as being an enforcer for the Masters, Hippolyta is in charge of recruiting and training footsoldiers for Nefaria's organization. Nefaria has been careful to stress the fact that the Masters are equal partners, and Nefaria is only seen as the leader due to his skills at diplomacy, as to keep the strong willed Hippolyta and other members of the group from rebelling.

Tiger Shark: Serves primairily as an enforcer for the Masters.

Klaw: The team's cheif scientists.

Taskmaster: The team's go to guy for stealth assassinations. He also helps train new recruits as part of an elite squad for special missions.

The Abomination: Major powerhouse and enforcer for the Masters. Also serves as the group's source of knowlege relating to various government operations, both military and burocratic, all over the world.

[Vanguard07]

edit

[Vanguard07]

Edit

[Vanguard07]

I like your line-up alot!

Very respectable. Clear leadership.

Thanks the way i looked at is you'd need a team that wouldnt tear itself apart and at the same time you want it to be the anti avengers.
The avengers are the big leagues of heroes so the MoE would have to all be people with enough power to be in those same leagues as villains. The problem with villains in that league is that they're too inclined to solo work for it to make sense to be on the team so i bumped some people up.
You get a strong leader to motivate them and lead them and all these under acheivers like Gravitron and Electro can become serious threats.

I tried to pick individuals who had the power but lacked the direction to become A-list threats. Also I'd like to add Purple man to the roster because he's just too damn useful.

I wouldnt put him on a team led by Red Skull or and anything because he'd be too inclined to undermine the orders he gets. Skull tells him to do something he doesnt want to and Killgrave could easilly decide that He'd rather run the show himself. I assume that Nefaria would be immune to Killgraves commands though because of their chemical nature and his being an ionic entity.

[deemar325]

Also, I can see Crossbones feeling jealousy towards Bullseye as the 'new favorite son.'

My line up is lending it's self to great conflict and stories, both operatic in nature and a homage to the 'JLA' 'League of Evil' big Guns type line-ups.

I think Marvel is lacking a Major organized group of SuperVillians to rival the Avengers. A lot of times Supervillians teams are boring and/or generic in nature with the usual suspects, usually C-list villians and certain obvious or potential interactions (Skull/Bullseye) are missed.

Hell Marvels years of neglect of Taskmaster is example of them being clueless to the potential of certain evil characters.

[deemar325]

Sounds pretty cool. Since Taskmaster's identity is pretty vague, it might be interesting to reveal that a major reason for Taskmaster being afraid of the others is the fact that at least one of his parents is an ethnic minority, or maybe that his family's Jewish.

HOLY ****!!!!

That is brilliant Q!!!

Jeez! Now that's what I'm talking about. See these combination of characters are writing themselves!!!

[deemar325]

What about my line-up?

I'm definately feeling the Mafia slant, especially the part with Norman losing his cool over minor insults it really informs his persona, and is telling how his psyche works and why a guy with his intellect and resources would be so focused on a teenage nobody with spider powers for years, instead of reaching the levels of say Doctor Doom in villiany (Within the context of the MU.)

[The Question]

I'm definately feeling the Mafia slant, especially the part with Norman losing his cool over minor insults it really informs his persona, and is telling how his psyche works and why a guy with his intellect and resources would be so focused on a teenage nobody with spider powers for years, instead of reaching the levels of say Doctor Doom in villiany (Within the context of the MU.)

Thanks. I didn't want the group to be completely without conflict, but not so much so that it wouldn't last. The way I see it working, Norman is in the black suit handling the buisness aspect of the Masters' organization. At one point, he loses a big contract to a rival company. He seems very calm when he learns the news, and then a week later, the head of the company that one the contract is found nailed to the cross outside of his church.

[deemar325]

Thanks the way i looked at is you'd need a team that wouldnt tear itself apart and at the same time you want it to be the anti avengers.
The avengers are the big leagues of heroes so the MoE would have to all be people with enough power to be in those same leagues as villains. The problem with villains in that league is that they're too inclined to solo work for it to make sense to be on the team so i bumped some people up.
You get a strong leader to motivate them and lead them and all these under acheivers like Gravitron and Electro can become serious threats.

I tried to pick individuals who had the power but lacked the direction to become A-list threats. Also I'd like to add Purple man to the roster because he's just too damn useful.

I wouldnt put him on a team led by Red Skull or and anything because he'd be too inclined to undermine the orders he gets. Skull tells him to do something he doesnt want to and Killgrave could easilly decide that He'd rather run the show himself. I assume that Nefaria would be immune to Killgraves commands though because of their chemical nature and his being an ionic entity.

I'm totally of like mind with your thoughts, except I think Red Skull has been doing the 'Evil manipulative Bastard' far longer with better results and on a highter level than Killgrave.

Plus Red Skulls Evil, but he's not crazy (Well he is, but not un-selfaware or foolish.) He'd play Purpleman like a chump, and if you think he can't counter Killgraves abilities? Well you don't get to be Captain America's archnemesis for nothing.

[deemar325]

Thanks. I didn't want the group to be completely without conflict, but not so much so that it wouldn't last. The way I see it working, Norman is in the black suit handling the buisness aspect of the Masters' organization. At one point, he loses a big contract to a rival company. He seems very calm when he learns the news, and then a week later, the head of the company that one the contract is found nailed to the cross outside of his church.

Guy I think me and you need to head to a Comic Con or work on submitting some stuff together.

I think your my missing 'I don't know what?' It's like I have these ideas for stories or character revisions, but I'm a dog-face soldier and not a writer.

[The Question]

Guy I think me and you need to head to a Comic Con or work on submitting some stuff together.

I think your my missing 'I don't know what?' It's like I have these ideas for stories or character revisions, but I'm a dog-face soldier and not a writer.

Thanks. Another idea I had is that, similarly to your idea, the group would form into little cliques, the same way the Justice League is usually split up into the Big Three, Flash and GL, and J'onn and Aurthur.

Nefaria and Hippolyta are the royalty, and see themselves as the real masterminds. They can barely stand each other, but they both agree that they're better than everyone else. They have a sort of high class equivalent of the relationship of the two main characters from Moonlighting. Sort of walks the line between atraction and pure hatred. Think "Taming of the Shrew" with supervillains.

Green Goblin, Tiger Shark, and Klaw are the psychos. They're the ones who subscribe the the "do as you please" outlook on life. All of them are bothered by the restrictions of the group, though Klaw is less so due to the more methodical nature of his crazy.

Taskmaster and Abomination are the professionals. They're the ones who sit back and wonder how the hell they landed a gig with these loons.

[deemar325]

Thanks. Another idea I had is that, similarly to your idea, the group would form into little cliques, the same way the Justice League is usually split up into the Big Three, Flash and GL, and J'onn and Aurthur.

Nefaria and Hippolyta are the royalty, and see themselves as the real masterminds. They can barely stand each other, but they both agree that they're better than everyone else. They have a sort of high class equivalent of the relationship of the two main characters from Moonlighting. Sort of walks the line between atraction and pure hatred. Think "Taming of the Shrew" with supervillains.

Green Goblin, Tiger Shark, and Klaw are the psychos. They're the ones who subscribe the the "do as you please" outlook on life. All of them are bothered by the restrictions of the group, though Klaw is less so due to the more methodical nature of his crazy.

Taskmaster and Abomination are the professionals. They're the ones who sit back and wonder how the hell they landed a gig with these loons.

I think everthing is killer!!!

Each dynamic described is right on point, plus I think Tasky and Abby would make a pretty funny and lethal duo.

[The Question]

I think everthing is killer!!!

Each dynamic described is right on point, plus I think Tasky and Abby would make a pretty funny and lethal duo.

Thanks. Also, I think this team compliments the upcoming "Might Avengers" pretty well. In the MU, Hippolyta is Ares' daughter. Way I see it, Ares is the first to notice that the Mastrers' footsoldiers have been trained by his daughter. Throughout the issue, Ares is mentioning his various family problems and how he hasn't seen his daughter in so long. Finally, when they face off, she tries to have a touching family moment with him. He just shoots her in the face with a shotgun, commenting to one of his teammates that "She always was a spoiled brat."

[deemar325]

Thanks. Also, I think this team compliments the upcoming "Might Avengers" pretty well. In the MU, Hippolyta is Ares' daughter. Way I see it, Ares is the first to notice that the Mastrers' footsoldiers have been trained by his daughter. Throughout the issue, Ares is mentioning his various family problems and how he hasn't seen his daughter in so long. Finally, when they face off, she tries to have a touching family moment with him. He just shoots her in the face with a shotgun, commenting to one of his teammates that "She always was a spoiled brat."

Heh!

Ares looks to be a interesting character.

[The Question]

Heh!



Ares looks to be a interesting character.

Ares is the ultimate monosylabic action hero who weilds very very large weapons. Pure sex and violence in human form. He is the God of War not in the sense of honorable and heroic combat, but in the sense of winning no matter the cost, even if it's your very soul. So, bascially, he kills lots of stuff and has a good time doing it.

[Vanguard07]

Okay i've thought about it and i've tweaked my roster a bit
Now i'm going with.

Nefaria as leader still
Electro and Gravitron as the air support/Firepower
Abomination and Absorbing man as the heavy hitters
Purple Man and Mysterio for the tricky stuff (Mysterio isnt much on his own but i think he'd be a huge asset for a team if they used him right)
and Sabertooth Bullseye and Crossbones for the wetwork.
Klaw as well who would lend himself to the Electro Gravitron paring as well as bring tech support/science and some assistance with the the tricky mysterio type stuff.

[deemar325]

Ares is the ultimate monosylabic action hero who weilds very very large weapons. Pure sex and violence in human form. He is the God of War not in the sense of honorable and heroic combat, but in the sense of winning no matter the cost, even if it's your very soul. So, bascially, he kills lots of stuff and has a good time doing it.

I shall predict the future!

Ares ongoing

Ares:I am War Journal

Ares and the X-men

Ares&Wolverine

Weapon War

Ares: Origin

MAX Comics: Ares

Marvel Adventures: Ares

[The Question]

Don't forget "Ares does Italy" and "Ares meets the Brady Bunch." :up:

[deemar325]

^ Of course!

[The Question]

And, we can't pass up "The Ares/Galaxy Trio show," "A very Ares Christmas," "It's a Wonderful Ares," "You're a Good war god, Ares," and "Ares saves Haloween."

[deemar325]

Marvel is doomed to repeat history, any decent character that gains popularity and is in the mode of Punisher/Wolverine is doomed to over exposer.

[The Question]

So sad. In tn year's time, I'll probably hate Ares. Still, for the time being, he's Marvel's cult badass hero.

[deemar325]

Viva la Ares!

Until the day Rob Liefeld or JMS taints Ares I'll like him.

[The Question]

Well, I don't have much against JMS, but let's leave that one alone for right now.

Anyway, about my Masters. I think a good storyline to have at one point is Zemo showing up, quite pissed that they're using the name of his family's team. It ends up escelating into a sort of gang war between two sets of Masters, until Nefaria convinces Zemo, who at this point has been trying to convince the world that he's gone legit, to join them. Zemo and his Thunderbolts end up making a deal, where Zemo gets a cut of Nefaria's profits as long as the Thunderbolts leave the new Masters' organization alone. This alos gives the group an in with the government.


EDIT: After reading some stuff on Zemo online, I see that he seems to be less self motivated these days, more interested in making a "perfect world" than ataining money or power. Still, he may end up fighting the Masters because they represent the evils of his father's legacy.

[deemar325]

Not a bad idea for a story arc.


I see you already caught the minor flaw in the idea.

[The Question]

You know, I must say, I'm not entirely thrilled with Zemo's more recent characterization. It just seems like a complete rip off of what DC's been doing with Lex Luthor over the past several years. I suppose a nice middle ground would be to portray Zemo like the villain in Fifth Element. He believes that he's providing a very important service to the way of life of everyone else by instilling his brands of both order and chaos in the apropriate areas, but he's still rather greedy and thus wants his cut.

[Tokyo Vigilante #1]

I'd like to see lots of different variations of MoE teams. Here's a few:

1.) Count Nefaria (leader)
Abomination
Electro
Speedfreek (the old one is dead, but someone else could take the armor)
Quicksand

2.) Graviton (leader)
Ravage (the Hulk villain)
War Machine (the ex-friend of Rhodes that stole a copy of the armor, long forgotten plot thread)
MODOK
Wizard

And taking a page MoE 7

3.) Crossfire (leader)
Constrictor
Boomerang
Shocker
Jack O'Lantern
Rhino
Eel
Lodestone
Shockwave
Mister Hyde
Styx and Stone
Vulture
Spymaster
Supercharger
Icemaster
Black Racer
Bushmaster
Puff Adder
Trapster
Titania
Powderkeg
Stilt-Man
Razorfist
Delilah

[The Question]

You know, I must say, I'm not entirely thrilled with Zemo's more recent characterization. It just seems like a complete rip off of what DC's been doing with Lex Luthor over the past several years. I suppose a nice middle ground would be to portray Zemo like the villain in Fifth Element. He believes that he's providing a very important service to the way of life of everyone else by instilling his brands of both order and chaos in the apropriate areas, but he's still rather greedy and thus wants his cut.


Okay. I just figured it out. Zemo wants to make his utopia, but he realizes that it will be a long process. In the mean time, crime needs to be controled. He also realizes that while crime syndicates are bad, they do keep crime in some form of order. Without the mafia, things would be much more chaotic and the bodies would be piling much faster. So, he cuts a deal with the new Masters. They follow some minor guidlines of his, and in return the Thunderbolts leave their organization alone and Zemo serves as their "man" in the federal government. This is, of course, one step on Zemo's road to creating his utopia, after which he will most likely turn on the Masters and either have them exicuted or offer them places in his empire as long as they do exactly what he says at all times.

[The Overlord]

Mandarin is also a racist, he believes the Chinese are superior to everyone else, no way Mandarin and Red Skull would be to work to together on level, are both racists but have different views on which race is superior.

[The Question]

I thought Mandarin's prejiduces were more cultural than racial. He feels that China was once a great empire and feels that it would be again under his rule. So, It's more "China is better" than "Asians are better."

[The Overlord]

I thought Mandarin's prejiduces were more cultural than racial. He feels that China was once a great empire and feels that it would be again under his rule.

I wouldn't be surprised if their both.

[The Overlord]

I thought Mandarin's prejiduces were more cultural than racial. He feels that China was once a great empire and feels that it would be again under his rule.

I wouldn't be surprised if their both.

[The Question]

I would. He's always been about returning China to it's former glory, but I don't think I've ever seen him being especially racist.

[deemar325]

I'd say Mandarin is rascist.

I'm sure he'd look down on his son or daughter bringing home a "Round eye" especially a black one.

[LouFerignoDemon]

He hates American's, but that's more of because they're capitalist, which he hates badly. But yeah, he's racist.

[The Question]

I guess. His prehiduces just seemed, to me, more cultural than racial. Like, the Chinese culture and the empire that China once was (which he wishes to recreate by diposing of the Communists) is superior to the rest of the world. I don't think he sees whites or blacks as inferior, and probably would be indiferent towards them if their nations were conquered by his new Chinese empire.

[deemar325]

Mandarin: Black Round eye!! You dishonor my daughter!!

Black Dude: Huh? What you sayin' bruh!?

M:*Counting fingers* Eeny, Meany, Meiney, Mo.... *ZAP!*

BD: Sweet Christmas!!! *Vaporized into dust.*

Mandarin's Daughter: Daddy NOOO!! I luv heemm!!!

M: Why you no date nice Chinese boy? At least a sexually repressed an uptight North Korean boy?

MD: He luv me long time!! *SOB*

[The Question]

I thought the Mandarin was fluent in english and spoke in a manner befiting a well educated aristocrat. :huh:

[LouFerignoDemon]

I guess. His prehiduces just seemed, to me, more cultural than racial. Like, the Chinese culture and the empire that China once was (which he wishes to recreate by diposing of the Communists) is superior to the rest of the world. I don't think he sees whites or blacks as inferior, and probably would be indiferent towards them if their nations were conquered by his new Chinese empire.

No, I agree for the most part. I said a lot like that, but he also retains people of Asian ethnicity for things he does, and hardly enjoys dealing with anybody else.

[The Question]

No, I agree for the most part. I said a lot like that, but he also retains people of Asian ethnicity for things he does, and hardly enjoys dealing with anybody else.

Still, that could simply be atributed to the fact that he lives in Asia. I mean, if you're a crime lord/war lord type in Africa, trying to overthrow the government and whatnot, a majority of those working for you are going to be black. Not because you're racist, but because you live in ****ing Africa.

[deemar325]

I thought the Mandarin was fluent in english and spoke in a manner befiting a well educated aristocrat. :huh:

Yeah he does, I'm just josh'n.

[The Question]

Anyway.....


Okay. I just figured it out. Zemo wants to make his utopia, but he realizes that it will be a long process. In the mean time, crime needs to be controled. He also realizes that while crime syndicates are bad, they do keep crime in some form of order. Without the mafia, things would be much more chaotic and the bodies would be piling much faster. So, he cuts a deal with the new Masters. They follow some minor guidlines of his, and in return the Thunderbolts leave their organization alone and Zemo serves as their "man" in the federal government. This is, of course, one step on Zemo's road to creating his utopia, after which he will most likely turn on the Masters and either have them exicuted or offer them places in his empire as long as they do exactly what he says at all times.

Thoughts?

[deemar325]

Sounds like something Zemo would rationalize and put into action.

Although I wish he'd just go back to the evil bastard Zemo.

[The Question]

Yeah. The villain who wants to save the world wether we like it or not works for Lex Luthor, but with Zemo it feels rather cheap. Lex has usually seen himself as being the hero, but Zemo was born and bred to be a little less morally ambiguous. I mean, his dad was a Nazi scientist. Even at his worst, he was pretty damn tame by comparison.

[deemar325]

Sometimes I think T-Bolts was a mistake as a series. Yeah it was awesome when it was first introduced, but I'm kind of tired of classic Marvel villians playing hero.

[The Question]

Well, with some of the characters, it worked. Beetle, Screaming Mimi, and Goliath were never really truely evil. Just glorified bank robbers. The Fixer remains the amoral profiterr he always was. He's just getting payed by the good guys. But Zemo really shouldn't have changed.

[deemar325]

That's another thing, Songbird was always lame to me. I love Mark Bagley's art to death and I worship at his alter, but his character designs never appealed to me. His designs reeked of 90's shoulder pads,metal boots and elbow pads.

Tom Grummett never liked his art, T-Bolts need a upgrade in artists.

[The Question]

Songbird's design wasn't that bad. It was certainly an upgrade on her old atire:


http://www.marveldatabase.com/wiki/images/d/d6/Screaming_Mimi_001.jpg

[LadyMoira]

Baron Zemo's no Lex Luthor-let him be stark evil it's more fun that way! And yeah with Beetle and Screaming Mimi it was interesting to see them discover the joys of being heroes after their life of crime but Zemo is just bad to the bone. He's the guy who lives for gloating about his evil plans!