The Official Final Fantasy XII Thread [Archive] - Page 2

View Full Version : The Official Final Fantasy XII Thread

Pages : 1 [2]

Substance D

11-03-2006, 10:43 PM

So I can just skip Judge A and B? Thanks. What level were your characters when you was at that point?

Don't skip them, that's pussy :o

Maybe around 14-16. Not really sure, but around there. It's a good place to level up though. I had a 100+ chain killing guards.

CrypticOne

11-03-2006, 10:47 PM

Don't skip them, that's pussy :o

Maybe around 14-16. Not really sure, but around there. It's a good place to level up though. I had a 100+ chain killing guards.

Man, I should've stayed fighting somewhere. Cause my characters are at 9-11.

MrHateYourself

11-04-2006, 01:49 AM

"Vann, you came into this room emptyhanded and shackled! How ever did that stone manage to find it's way out of your inventory (which oddly wasn't confiscated?) and into your hands!? How convienant!"

Zenien

11-04-2006, 03:36 AM

I've just begun to make my way out of the area after Bash has joined my party as a guest

I'm still on the fence about the battle system though, I'm struggling between wanting to control everything or leaving it up to the gambit... it's like I WANT to be the one hitting the function for every action taken, but at the same time I don't... hmmm that doesn't sound right. Oh well I'm still experimenting to figure out what combinations I like best and deciding on active or what, this battle system is really flexible so it's going to take my a while.

MrHateYourself

11-04-2006, 04:38 PM

Don't skip them, that's pussy :o

Maybe around 14-16. Not really sure, but around there. It's a good place to level up though. I had a 100+ chain killing guards.

Apparently you can't skip them, they drop a key to open the door. Found that out the hard way while the girl was playing this morning and having her ass handed to her-"Apparently you can just run past them. I'm pretty sure I got a key drop, but...." and lo, it cost her the characters' lives. Alas.

Screw chaining on the ship-chain in the mines, while you still have your guest 4th party member. The bridge area just before the cutscene, where only skeletons spawn, you can draw about 40ish of them before they stop appearing. About 100exp each (versus 30, 40odd for the guards). Walk off screen, come back, repeat. 5 levels per character in under an hour at that location.

Substance D

11-04-2006, 05:14 PM

Apparently you can't skip them, they drop a key to open the door. Found that out the hard way while the girl was playing this morning and having her ass handed to her-"Apparently you can just run past them. I'm pretty sure I got a key drop, but...." and lo, it cost her the characters' lives. Alas.

Screw chaining on the ship-chain in the mines, while you still have your guest 4th party member. The bridge area just before the cutscene, where only skeletons spawn, you can draw about 40ish of them before they stop appearing. About 100exp each (versus 30, 40odd for the guards). Walk off screen, come back, repeat. 5 levels per character in under an hour at that location.

Oops, lol. I beat them the first try, but I thought I read somewhere you could just run past them.

I chained on both. The skeletons stopped spawning around 80-100. I was getting bored anyway. I'm currently level 30, just left Eruyt Village. I bought some Golden Armlets (?) which double LP, so I've just been sweeping through the Esterland.

CrypticOne

11-04-2006, 06:07 PM

Thanks for the info guys. I just need to start the game over.

War Party

11-04-2006, 07:25 PM

I haven't been able to play, because my PS2 keeps saying that it can't find the controller. So I don't know what's up with that. Haven't had time to solve the issue.

MrHateYourself

11-04-2006, 08:23 PM

Oops, lol. I beat them the first try, but I thought I read somewhere you could just run past them.

I chained on both. The skeletons stopped spawning around 80-100. I was getting bored anyway. I'm currently level 30, just left Eruyt Village. I bought some Golden Armlets (?) which double LP, so I've just been sweeping through the Esterland.

I chained a whopping 123 skeletons.....after 123 100xp monsters, it's hard to keep up that kind of patience for enemies that only drop 1/3 of that.

Golden Armlets, you say? Interesting....

I'm trying to avoid strategy guides, but for anyone starting over I recommend picking one up if you want to get the ultimate weapon in the game:one of the important steps is to NOT open certain (unmarked!) treasure chests, several of them at the very beginning of the game. Lame.

Substance D

11-04-2006, 10:57 PM

I chained a whopping 123 skeletons.....after 123 100xp monsters, it's hard to keep up that kind of patience for enemies that only drop 1/3 of that.

Golden Armlets, you say? Interesting....

I'm trying to avoid strategy guides, but for anyone starting over I recommend picking one up if you want to get the ultimate weapon in the game:one of the important steps is to NOT open certain (unmarked!) treasure chests, several of them at the very beginning of the game. Lame.

I usually do a story run, where I just use the guide when I get stuck. After that, I do a completion run where I follow the strat to a T.

Anyways, anyone else think Penelo's outfit looks like a body cast?

Substance D

11-05-2006, 12:53 AM

Holy ****. The Elder Wyrm was a long, grueling fight.

MrHateYourself

11-05-2006, 02:28 AM

Holy ****. The Elder Wyrm was a long, grueling fight.

The boss/elite fights in this game have a HUGE difficulty curve to them that I haven't seen in an FF game since....4 or 5?

War Party

11-05-2006, 08:52 AM

I'm getting pissed. The contoller that came with my refurb PS2 broke. The L2 button stopped working. So I go to Gamestop to exchange for a new one and when I turn on my PS2, it says I need to connect a Dual Shock 2 controller into port one. But the controller worked fine on the other games. So I go back again to exchange again and they said it could be my FF XII that's screwed up, which I didn't think was the case. So I exchange it again and the same problem. But now the controller they gave me doesn't work with any of the games. I'm going one more time to exchange it and if it doesn't work, I'm just buying a new controller rather than exchanging it for another used one. The whole point of this is that I want to play Final Fantasy XII, damn it!!!

Hyper Venom

11-05-2006, 09:50 AM

Got myself a question, folks. When you bring up the party menu, there is a number at the bottom of the screen in the middle, to the right of the amount of gil you have and to the left of the game clock. Anybody know what that number represents?

Substance D

11-05-2006, 04:49 PM

War Party

11-05-2006, 06:15 PM

All is well. I just borrowed a controller from my cousin and it's all good now. ****ing Gamestop was giving me faulty controllers. *******s.

GyLocke

11-06-2006, 06:14 AM

Can someone tell me how can I massively level up in a short period of time? I'm at the Tomb of Wraithwall. Till now, I was able to beat everything with one or two mist Infernos, but my lack of experience in rpgs are becoming obvious, Vaan isn't even level 9 yet, and I have the feeling by this point, I'm supposed to be more badass.

The demon wall took a dive pretty easily, but I can barely touch that big ass fire elemental thingy at the end of the level. he just looks at me and my characters go horizontal faster than Starfire.

War Party

11-06-2006, 06:55 AM

Mr. Credible

11-06-2006, 08:32 AM

i have a weird problem... i just fought Judge Ghis, and now Vaan is stuck with silence. 'Vox' doesn't word, it misses every time, as do my echo needles (or whatever they are)

i just tried killing vaan and bringing him back, but that didn't work either. is my game just goofed up, or what?

Substance D

11-06-2006, 08:36 AM

Mr. Credible

11-06-2006, 08:38 AM

Check if it's a side effect of something he has equipped.

i love you.

i had some stupid accessory equipped. i thought it meant that all my attacks will cause silence.

and here i was about to go back and fight Ghis again (which would have been a pain in the ass, because he's pretty difficult)

War Party

11-06-2006, 09:14 AM

i love you.

i had some stupid accessory equipped. i thought it meant that all my attacks will cause silence.

and here i was about to go back and fight Ghis again (which would have been a pain in the ass, because he's pretty difficult)

You probably had the nececite(sp?) equipped, right? I thought Ghis was easy. I just used one of my quickenings and it pretty much took all his HP.

Mr. Credible

11-06-2006, 11:17 AM

You probably had the nececite(sp?) equipped, right? I thought Ghis was easy. I just used one of my quickenings and it pretty much took all his HP.

yeah, that was it... the necessite (sp?)

and i used my (vaan's) quickening on Ghis, too; but it didn't give me the option to do a combo, just the one, so...

argh. and i just spent 2 hours in the refinery area, leveling up, and some big sun looking thing came along and killed my party in one fail swoop (he hit us all for about 4000 hp's each) and now i'm pissed. i'm going to bed.

Substance D

11-06-2006, 11:41 AM

yeah, that was it... the necessite (sp?)

and i used my (vaan's) quickening on Ghis, too; but it didn't give me the option to do a combo, just the one, so...

argh. and i just spent 2 hours in the refinery area, leveling up, and some big sun looking thing came along and killed my party in one fail swoop (he hit us all for about 4000 hp's each) and now i'm pissed. i'm going to bed.

Yeah, Quickenings take a while to get used to. It's good to get them as soon as possible, since it will triple your MP. Also, it makes it easier to combo since options will appear more often. I combo'd 6 while fighting Judge Burghen and wiped him out.

LOL, yeah elements suck. You gotta keep an eye out for them. I spent about an hour running around leveling, when all of a sudden one wiped out my party. That's when I realized you can just switch to your reserve members, which was like a godsend. When I'm a high enough level, I'm going to seek out each element and reap sweet revenge.

Mr. Credible

11-06-2006, 11:45 AM

what's with the elements? is there anything i ought to know?

i switched to my reserve party, too, but it was all my weaker guys, and they died half way through fleeing.

War Party

11-06-2006, 03:39 PM

Speedball

11-06-2006, 04:28 PM

You probably had the nececite(sp?) equipped, right? I thought Ghis was easy. I just used one of my quickenings and it pretty much took all his HP.

Lol, I got to Ghis. All but two of my team members were down and I didn't feel like using an PDs. So it was just Vaan and Basch. I had Vaan attack him, while Basch did nothing but use Cure and Potions on him. It worked pretty well.
And it's Nethecite. The Silence was an effect from the nethecite Larsas gave Penelo before they left the Airship.

Did anyone else notice the similarities this game has with Skies of Arcadia? The Empire's name is Archadia, there are Sky Pirates and Airships in both, and both are about bringing down an empire. Could this have just been a reference by Square to acknowledge SoA greatness? or a ripoff?
It's still a great game, but this kinda bugs me.

Zenien

11-06-2006, 05:24 PM

Skies of Arcadia isn't that good. :| :p

Speedball

11-06-2006, 05:26 PM

Skies of Arcadia isn't that good. :| :p
Have you played SoA? It's one of the greatest games ever made. not according to me, but according to many websites.

Substance D

11-06-2006, 05:30 PM

Speedball

11-06-2006, 05:33 PM

Arkadia, Arcadia, etc etc is a common name amongst fantasy stories. Airships and sky pirates are nothing new to Final Fantasy. But who knows, I've never heard of SoA. Is it really that good? I might have to try it out.
Yeah It's really good.
It's called Skies of Arcadia Legends on the Gamecube. I'm not sure how esy to find it is though.

Substance D

11-06-2006, 05:35 PM

Yeah It's really good.
It's called Skies of Arcadia Legends on the Gamecube. I'm not sure how esy to find it is though.

Maybe when I get a Wii. I'll need something for my Final Fantasy rebound.

Zenien

11-06-2006, 10:27 PM

Balthiers Japanses voice actor > Ba;thiers English voice actor. THe voice acting is still really high quality. The voice actress of Penelo does a really good job. THe first time we heard her she had said something like "Don't leave me!" in one of the english trailers and she sounded pretty bad, she's actually probably one opf the best sounding characters in the game so far.

Substance D

11-06-2006, 11:10 PM

Speedball

11-06-2006, 11:17 PM

Not really. Balthier has the best voice ever. You'll soon realize that when you remove your head from your bottom.

LOL! Yeah...It's super glued in there.
And Balthier's english voice is the best of the bunch. Fran's the best of the females. GOD her voice is sexy!

War Party

11-06-2006, 11:19 PM

I love Fran's voice.

Substance D

11-06-2006, 11:25 PM

HOLY FUDGE!

Balthier used to be a judge!

I just got to level 40. I'm at the Phon Coast. I hope I'm only 10% through the game. :csad:

Speedball

11-07-2006, 12:13 AM

Thanks...Please no more Spoliers.

And yeah, Fran's voice is TEH SEX!

Zenien

11-07-2006, 01:46 AM

Not really. Balthier has the best voice ever. You'll soon realize that when you remove your head from your bottom.

He sounds a bit over the top, maybe it's just the opening act, I'll see how it goes with the rest of the adventure, but his Japanese voice has all the same charm to it while still portraying a nice measure of roughness or edge that would be fitting for a sky pirate. His english voice makes him continually sound bored.

I don't really care if you disagree.

Avalanche

11-07-2006, 05:16 AM

From the trailers, there seems to me to be a lot of characters speaking with an English accent. Except Vaan, who has an American accent.

Substance D

11-07-2006, 07:42 AM

I think the Dalmascans have American accents. Archadians English accents.

Avalanche

11-07-2006, 08:48 AM

Do the English accents equate to being a bad guy? Are the Archadians the bad guys? I'll be most annoyed if we English have been tarnished as the bad guys again!

Speedball

11-07-2006, 09:04 AM

Hmm...Another Similarity to Star Wars...Hmm...
Larsas is has an english accent and doesn't seem like a bad guy.

Iceman

11-07-2006, 10:28 AM

How does this compare to the previous Final Fantasy games?

Substance D

11-07-2006, 10:59 AM

Do the English accents equate to being a bad guy? Are the Archadians the bad guys? I'll be most annoyed if we English have been tarnished as the bad guys again!

No, so far only a few of the antagonists have been painted black & white. Many of the Archadians have been presented with good intentions.

Substance D

11-07-2006, 11:00 AM

How does this compare to the previous Final Fantasy games?

Up there with the best. New and different, but in a good way.

XwolverineX

11-07-2006, 03:07 PM

I haven't been able to come here in awhile, so I need a recap. How good is this games? How's the story?

Iceman

11-07-2006, 03:09 PM

Up there with the best. New and different, but in a good way.I can't wait :up:

Only 3 months to go :cmad:

CrypticOne

11-07-2006, 03:21 PM

I haven't been able to come here in awhile, so I need a recap. How good is this games? How's the story?

The story is great. The characters are great. This is one of the best FF's. You definitly need to check it out.

XwolverineX

11-07-2006, 04:33 PM

Out of all people on this board, your opinion is probably the least valid to me, CrypticOne.

Avalanche

11-07-2006, 04:57 PM

Well then read through the thread and see everyone elses opinions, which pretty much echo what he said. One of the best Final fantasy games.

Havok83

11-07-2006, 05:14 PM

Ugh! I just started a new job yesterday just as I started playing FF, so I'll only really get to play on the weekends

Substance D

11-07-2006, 06:13 PM

Out of all people on this board, your opinion is probably the least valid to me, CrypticOne.

Ouch, that's kind of mean.

CrypticOne

11-07-2006, 08:14 PM

Ouch, that's kind of mean.

LOL. Yeah, that was kind of mean.

I need some help. I'm currently in the Tomb of Roliath or something like that and can't pass the second wall that is closing in on me. Does anyone have any tips?

XwolverineX

11-07-2006, 08:19 PM

Well then read through the thread and see everyone elses opinions, which pretty much echo what he said. One of the best Final fantasy games.

I'm not wasting my time doing that. It's more fun to insult challenged kids anyway.

Substance D

11-07-2006, 08:44 PM

LOL. Yeah, that was kind of mean.

I need some help. I'm currently in the Tomb of Roliath or something like that and can't pass the second wall that is closing in on me. Does anyone have any tips?

If you beat the first one the second one shouldn't be a problem. Make sure your guys are free of the status effects (gambits help big time), and just beat the **** out of it.

CrypticOne

11-07-2006, 09:04 PM

If you beat the first one the second one shouldn't be a problem. Make sure your guys are free of the status effects (gambits help big time), and just beat the **** out of it.

Thanks!

War Party

11-07-2006, 10:14 PM

Substance D

11-07-2006, 10:56 PM

I only fought this battle once and I got whooped. It's that grass dragon in the woods. Right when you get through the barrier after finding Fran's sister. It seems impossible, but I think I should just level up some more. Anyone else up to or past that yet, because it's hard as hell.

I lost the first time. Mainly, it's an endurance battle. Esuna is a must have though. Gambit that, take out the henchmen first as usual, then focus your attacks on the dragon. It's probably not good to use your quickenings since you really need all your MP for this one.

Mixairian

11-07-2006, 11:06 PM

****ed up right analog view. Anyone else have this problem? Pushing left makes it go clockwise(right) and counterclockwise(left)?

Substance D

11-07-2006, 11:09 PM

****ed up right analog view. Anyone else have this problem? Pushing left makes it go clockwise(right) and counterclockwise(left)?

Yeah, and after 2 minutes I got used to it.

Speedball

11-07-2006, 11:14 PM

****ed up right analog view. Anyone else have this problem? Pushing left makes it go clockwise(right) and counterclockwise(left)?

That's the way I play FPS games. I can't stand the reversed stuff.

Mr. Credible

11-08-2006, 11:03 AM

Yeah, and after 2 minutes I got used to it.

diddo.

i am loving this game the more i play it. every time i get a new gambit or technick or quickening (especially) or magic spell the combat gets that much funner. i think it's got the best combat engine of any final fantasy game i've played, if not better than any rpg i've played. i'm still on the fence about the liscence board though. it's tough to get the hang of, and you end up buying a lot of useless crap that you'll only use once (if that) to get to the good stuff. and it's hard to have everyone balanced when you're all going in opposite directions, know what i mean? my Balthier can't even use any accessories yet, because he's moving left on the board.

grr.... okay, that's my rant. still one of my favorite final fantasy's so far, though.

Iceman

11-08-2006, 11:06 AM

I like the sound of the new combat system from what I've read. I know there are mixed views but it seems more realistic if it's integrated into the gameplay.

Substance D

11-08-2006, 11:33 AM

diddo.

i am loving this game the more i play it. every time i get a new gambit or technick or quickening (especially) or magic spell the combat gets that much funner. i think it's got the best combat engine of any final fantasy game i've played, if not better than any rpg i've played. i'm still on the fence about the liscence board though. it's tough to get the hang of, and you end up buying a lot of useless crap that you'll only use once (if that) to get to the good stuff. and it's hard to have everyone balanced when you're all going in opposite directions, know what i mean? my Balthier can't even use any accessories yet, because he's moving left on the board.

grr.... okay, that's my rant. still one of my favorite final fantasy's so far, though.

I felt like I was wasting points too earlier on, but later you start to get so many LP you don't know what to do with them, so don't worry about it.

I heard that if you switch the battle mode to active, and play with the speed all the way up the game becomes almost totally different. I'm going to try it when I get home.

War Party

11-08-2006, 05:39 PM

I lost the first time. Mainly, it's an endurance battle. Esuna is a must have though. Gambit that, take out the henchmen first as usual, then focus your attacks on the dragon. It's probably not good to use your quickenings since you really need all your MP for this one.

Yeah, I just beat it on my second try. So far the boss battles have been a lot of fun. A lot of strategy has to go into a battle if you want to come out victorious and it's pretty cool. I love the gambit system. This particular battle took my almost 30 min.

Speedball

11-08-2006, 09:16 PM

Wow...
I just got to the tomb of Raithwall. This game has some of the best boss battles ever. I made the Avion boss run away. HAHAHAHA!!! He took out my entire party with only little bit of health left. So I took out the three in reserve and pwned him.
And the Wall boss was pretty fun and suspenseful.

War Party

11-08-2006, 09:57 PM

Substance D

11-08-2006, 10:55 PM

So I basically just use my reserves for when I have to backtrack for hunts. If you equip them with your best gear, they're pretty much just as powerful as your main three.

War Party

11-08-2006, 10:58 PM

Who are your main three? I use Vaan, Basch, and Ash.

Speedball

11-08-2006, 11:04 PM

Substance D

11-08-2006, 11:11 PM

This game just isn't as interesting without Fran in your party :yay:. I make her my leader so I can stare at her fine Viera booty as she runs.

But anyways, I use Basch, Ashe and Fran. Basch and Ashe are my fighters, Fran my main healer. I plan on keeping Basch with sword and shield, and I'm going to give Ashe a katana. I want to find a good gun for Fran.

If I ever start a new game, I'm going to make Fran a melee fighter. She just looks cool with a sword. Her limit breaks are sexy too. I like Ashe's limit breaks too. They're pretty. :woot:

Speedball

11-08-2006, 11:19 PM

I like how they allowed the Characters to use many different types of weapons. It ups the replay value. When I beat the game, I'm gonna start a new one and have Vaan use poles, Penelo use guns, Fran use greatswords, Basch use bows, and Balthier use daggers.

Substance D

11-08-2006, 11:31 PM

Roughneck

11-09-2006, 12:55 AM

Just bought the game....I also bought Marvel Ultimate Alliance and FF7 Dirge of Cerberus.....soit might be a while before I get a chance to play FF12.

MrHateYourself

11-09-2006, 01:17 AM

Substance D

11-09-2006, 08:10 AM

Balthier is definitely a sassed up Han Solo. Look at his voice actor, he LOOKS like that voice should come out of his mouth.

"Marquis" is apparently the "Maester" of this game. Intentional bastardizing.

Fran has become the ultrawoman-highest attack power, most magic, ranged, yep. Goodstuff. Too bad I hate her so much.

Han Solo is a bit stupid and relies on luck. He's also brash and runs into situations without thinking. Balthier seems smarter, more sophisticated and laidback. He's more gentleman like, where Han Solo was anything but.

"Marquis" can be pronounced several ways, including "mar-kwis".

MrHateYourself

11-09-2006, 01:01 PM

"Marquis" can be pronounced several ways, including "mar-kwis".

Unless you're French. And are speaking French. French words in French.

Substance D

11-09-2006, 02:34 PM

Unless you're French. And are speaking French. French words in French.

oh well, it's how they say it in bhujerba

Substance D

11-09-2006, 08:43 PM

OH MY GOD.

The Mandragora Power Ranger Assassin squad is the best boss fight ever...

LOL. You'll know when you get to it.

MrHateYourself

11-10-2006, 12:02 AM

oh well, it's how they say it in bhujerba

Yeah. I've long since painfully accepted that it's an intentional "quirk", but it still bugs the hell out of me.

Zenien

11-10-2006, 04:13 AM

Mine are Vaan, Fran and Ashe.
I've got Vaan using swords and shields, Fran using Bows, and Ashe using poles.
Fran's my support person, who stays out of the battle and just heals, uses magic or shoots.

I haven't gotten very far yet I'm only about 7-8 hours in and I've just escaped from the battleship after fighting the first judge but I've decided to use Fran as my support character as well. though I honestly don't use her all much in my core three, she's the least important party member to the plot so far... I really honestly wish you could have more then 3 people in your party at once because 3 just doesn't feel like enough, I ALWAYS feel like I'm leaving someone out because deep down I want to be using them each character like all the time...

Mr. Credible

11-10-2006, 01:39 PM

is there a better (read: easier) way to get more money?

i have tons of liscences (i've spent at least 5 or 6 hours just running around getting LP's) and no weapons or technicks or magicks to fill the slots.... it sucks.

granted, i'm only at the Wraithwall Tomb (well, almost), so maybe i'm getting ahead of myself.

Substance D

11-10-2006, 01:58 PM

Havok83

11-10-2006, 03:03 PM

Its the weekend and I can play FF XII nonstop :D

Taylor26

11-10-2006, 08:48 PM

I wanna get FF 12 so bad.

Zenien

11-10-2006, 09:32 PM

Skeletons, fight losts of skeletons.

Mr. Credible

11-11-2006, 01:57 AM

yeah... i've had a few 40+ combos from skelotons and those sand people guys in the sandsea. still, i need more money. that dyne (?) guy outside wraithwall's tomb is selling some monster weapons/armor/etc... and i want them all.

Mr. Credible

11-11-2006, 02:00 AM

geez, i just made the Demon Wall my girlfriend with an 11 hit quickening combo. that was like a hot, steamy batch of justice, served with a side of 'booya'

Substance D

11-11-2006, 07:52 AM

geez, i just made the Demon Wall my girlfriend with an 11 hit quickening combo. that was like a hot, steamy batch of justice, served with a side of 'booya'

Don't forget to get the special sword that's behind it.

Mr. Credible

11-11-2006, 08:50 AM

it wasn't behind it though... there was just a button to unlock the passage down the right or left of the main hall, and that led to a treasure chest, and that gave me a holy mote or something like that. i guess if you keep trying, the sword will eventually show up. i don't know how long until chests reset, though.

MrHateYourself

11-12-2006, 11:52 PM

Mr. Credible

11-13-2006, 08:27 AM

meh... i just got my fist katana, so Vaan is now officially a ninja. he can't hold a shield anymore, but he's hitting for 500+ hp's every time, and combos 2 or more hits every other turn or so, so that's nice.

Substance D

11-13-2006, 08:29 AM

Hades

11-14-2006, 07:50 AM

Substance D

11-14-2006, 08:07 AM

This game is really awesome.
I'm really torn on which job classes my characters should have though.
too much freedom! somebody hold my hand and walk me through.....:csad:

I'm also wondering, how many main characters are in the game?
are there really only 6?

6.

See, I never had the job class problem. I collected enough LP to pretty much give everyone all the good abilities. I basically have two melee fighters and one range person who stays back and heals, but they could switch roles at any given time.

Fenrir

11-14-2006, 08:08 AM

Substance D

11-14-2006, 08:12 AM

I'm more than 40 hours into the game and must've finished like only half of the story. Though I've got a pretty high rank in Clan Centurino with more than 26 hunts. So my characters are badass muthafockas now. :cool::up:

The antlion battle was one of the best boss fights I've ever had in a game. It was truely cinematic being chased by dozens of large monsters through a narrow corridor, then turning around and Aeroga-ing their asses. That's something you'd only see in a cutscene in previous FF games...

Fenrir

11-14-2006, 08:17 AM

The antlion battle was one of the best boss fights I've ever had in a game. It was truely cinematic being chased by dozens of large monsters through a narrow corridor, then turning around and Aeroga-ing their asses. That's something you'd only see in a cutscene in previous FF games...

Heh, all I did was rush in the room and start my quickening chain that ended with like 12 hits and a Whiteout finishing move (w00t!) that killed all of the Killer Mantis' and took a HUGE chunk from the Antlion's lifebar. It was killer! :yellow:

Substance D

11-14-2006, 11:28 AM

Heh, all I did was rush in the room and start my quickening chain that ended with like 12 hits and a Whiteout finishing move (w00t!) that killed all of the Killer Mantis' and took a HUGE chunk from the Antlion's lifebar. It was killer! :yellow:

Damn, I've only been able to get to 10... :(

Hades

11-14-2006, 11:30 AM

i just got to the mines....how early am I in the game:huh:

Fenrir

11-14-2006, 11:41 AM

Damn, I've only been able to get to 10... :(

It was pure luck. Often, I can't land more than 3 hits because I'd have already used all of my level 3 quickenings on first try and the game won't give me any more mist charges. **** randomization! :cmad: :csad:

Substance D

11-14-2006, 12:05 PM

i just got to the mines....how early am I in the game:huh:

Maybe like 10%? I forget.

CrypticOne

11-14-2006, 10:18 PM

Substance D

11-14-2006, 11:11 PM

Okay, I need some help. Right now I just talked to Fran's people and now I'm suppose to head west, but where exactly? I went all over the place and all I did was level my characters up, which is good, but I want to continue the story. Anyone this far yet?

Is this the part where you gotta find Fran's hot sister? If so, you gotta go back to the Ozmone plains, get a chocobo and then goto the Henne mines.

Hades

11-19-2006, 06:35 AM

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/images/061105.jpg

Pheonix down on this thread:cmad:

Mr. Credible

11-19-2006, 07:58 AM

that's a funny ass cartoon... so true.

i'm still loving this game though. i just got my second esper.

Hades

11-19-2006, 08:09 AM

I just got my first.

Then I went on a damn hunt for that crocofrog thing.

Huge ass mcfugger destroyed and raped my party. Even my esper.
:cmad: Then a crocowooly whatever they're called came chasing me.

Oh, and I'm still all OCD'ing out on what job classes to make my characters.

Iceman

11-19-2006, 08:46 AM

I'll probably be playing FF XIII before XII at this rate :cmad:

So sick of waiting :csad:

Mr. Credible

11-21-2006, 11:45 AM

why am i invincible?

i'm in the ozmone plains, for the 2nd time, after getting the sword of kings, and i'm on my way to some new kingdom place on foot, and nothing can touch Vaan. i have the demonsbane (i think it's called) sword eqiuppied, an ice shield, and the gold sword, helm, and amulet, and nothing can harm me. i either block or parry every hit, or, if they make contact, it's for at the most, 4 hp's.

i don't get it. these ozmone plain monsters killed me on the way in, now even when they hit me, it usually hit's for 0 hp's.

War Party

11-21-2006, 12:10 PM

Mr. Credible

11-21-2006, 11:00 PM

it's in the temple... the shrine of something or another, to the south of the ice-mountains place.

the sword is more or less useless though, it's just a story point.

Zenien

11-21-2006, 11:08 PM

I was going to start Zelda and I actually did start me some Zelda but I think I'll go back to FFXII I'm a one game a t a time person and I'd rather play FFXII right now.

Mr. Credible

11-22-2006, 09:20 AM

i don't know how far you are, Z, but this game just gets better and better the more you level up and go along. gameplay-wise, this is easily my favorite final fantasy. story-wise, not so much, but i still have a ways to go, so...

Mixairian

11-22-2006, 11:31 AM

Hades

11-22-2006, 11:37 AM

what's grinding:huh:

Speedball

11-22-2006, 05:25 PM

what's grinding:huh:
get off the video game boards if you don't know what grinding is.

It's where you just go out and fight enemies to level up. You do it in most RPGs

MrHateYourself

11-22-2006, 05:50 PM

It's where you just go out and fight enemies to level up. You do it in most RPGs

Except in really good ones like Earthbound, where it automatically smacks lower level enemies for you without even bothering to open the battle screen....not that such a system could really apply to a game without a battle screen, but it's a shame that a decade after Earthbound no other RPG seems to have picked up on that...

Mr. Credible

11-22-2006, 08:29 PM

I was originally intent on progressing through the game when I made a discovery. If you level solo, the characters that join you, come to you at that level or higher...

So I made a new game and started grinding on wolves... not only did I receive a large number of LP but I made another discovery. Quickenings are broken.

In short I'm level 20 and I've not yet touched the storyline. I grind the level 20 werewolves and I've even found some nice loot. I figure I'll get to 30 or 35 and just burn through the storyline in one night.

Anyhow, it was just amusing to note. :)

um... yeah, good luck with that. :rolleyes:

i'm level 38 right now, and i'm still getting my ass handed to me by some of the higher-up bosses. not to mention i've put at least 35-40 hours into the game, hardly touching the side quests, and i'm nowhere near done with the game. if the walk-through is any indicator, i'm about half way through the story.

oh, and how are your Quickenings broken?

CrypticOne

11-23-2006, 12:36 AM

Is this the part where you gotta find Fran's hot sister? If so, you gotta go back to the Ozmone plains, get a chocobo and then goto the Henne mines.

Thanks. I figured it out, cause I had to give that one Imperial a potion for his friend, then I got the chocobo.

Right now I'm trying to get to Arcadia, I am in the underground right now and I defeated those little guys. I guess it was a boss fight, it was pretty easy.

CrypticOne

11-23-2006, 12:37 AM

um... yeah, good luck with that. :rolleyes:

i'm level 38 right now, and i'm still getting my ass handed to me by some of the higher-up bosses. not to mention i've put at least 35-40 hours into the game, hardly touching the side quests, and i'm nowhere near done with the game. if the walk-through is any indicator, i'm about half way through the story.

oh, and how are your Quickenings broken?

My Vaan is level 39. All the rest are 33 and higher.

Victor Von Doom

11-23-2006, 06:40 PM

So i've been playing for about 50 hours and i'm about in halfway through the game. Maybe a little more, and i've got to say that this game is fun beyond all belief. I'm so glad I was wrong about the battle system. Gettin thrown into it in the demo wasn't very fun, but when I purchased and played from scratch it was overwhelmingly great.

There are only three things in the game that I personally don't like. The music isn't really to the standards that i'm used to in a FF game, and I've a big music person. I'll play games for hours if I can run around in stages with my favorite score. Secondly it's so time consuming to get money in this game for weapon upgrades. I was wondering if anyone has found a real cash cow as of yet. Third, the Summons that I have are so effing weak. The bosses just plain kill them before they really have a chance to get going. Kinda sux when you can't use your summons on strong enemies. Other than that I Love it to the bone.

So here's what I want to know.

How are you customizing your characters? What weapons are they using? Are they strictly mages or warriors? I'm just curious as to what your builds are?

Here's how i'm rolling.

Vaan - Swords and Shields - My protagonist (at least I think he's the protagonist lol) has to roll this way. Some white magic if others are dying. Some Techniques.

Ashe - Axes (1h) and shileds. There's something sexy about this to me. She also does a lot of white magic, which is helpful when your healer can stay alive very easily.

Fran - So far she's using staves and mainly black magic, but i'm thinking of giving her a bow again, just because she runs out of mp so quickly. I don't know if it's worth it to have any character be only a mage wearing all mage gear because they die so freakin often. Almost not even worth it in boss fights till you make sure there's only one enemy left.

Balthier - Spears/Black Magic. Kind of a tank mage mix that works really well. Once he got a nice spear it kicks ass. (I don't really like guns that much so there you go.)

Penelo - Poles (LOL) /Green magic, some White magic. Love this combo for her. He's usually support but sometimes she gets inthere and kicks some ass.

Basch - Katana/Techniques He's like the fallen Samurai with that scar across his face so I only thought it fitting. Dude's a powerhouse.

Victor Von Doom

11-23-2006, 06:40 PM

opps double post :P

CrypticOne

11-24-2006, 12:20 AM

Personally, Balthier is the best character in FFXII.

Mr. Credible

11-24-2006, 07:27 AM

Brainiac 8

11-24-2006, 08:31 AM

I want this game, but I'm too busy playing the wii.:csad:

Mr. Credible

11-24-2006, 09:19 AM

this is better than anything on the wii so far.

Hades

11-24-2006, 09:24 AM

I really like the story and dialouge so far.

Sure it might not be as "deep" as some of them, or character driven, but it feels very mature, almost movie like. I like the political tone.

Substance D

11-24-2006, 12:45 PM

I beat the game last night. The ending is really cool. I finished with around 65 hours.

I was expecting more out of the storyline. Vaan and Penelo really have no reason to be there. The ending was satisfying, except for Basch's part. It was kind of sick what happened to him. His identity is stripped away. He was my favorite character too. Balthier and Fran go out with a bang though.

Victor Von Doom

11-24-2006, 05:54 PM

Man the voice acting for this game just blows me away the further I progress.

Substance D

11-24-2006, 06:15 PM

Man the voice acting for this game just blows me away the further I progress.

Except for Al-Cid's voice.

Mr. Credible

11-24-2006, 11:10 PM

Except for Al-Cid's voice.

exactly what i was abou to say... he's such a bag of douche.

Fenrir

11-25-2006, 12:15 AM

I've just finished the game and I have to say I'm pretty disappointed. The game started out so strong in terms of storyline but it never really takes off. Sure, the dialogue and the writing was great, the voice acting excellent (but still a few kinks in the armor) but the characters were pretty flat. None of them really had a deep enough backstory and this game also forsook the FF tradition of giving each character an extensive subplot - bad idea. The story was more like a monorail trip from point A to B instead of a rollercoaster ride like many other FFs. In fact, of all the FFs I've played, I can't think of any entry in the series weaker than 12 in terms of overall plot.

Such a shame though. I loved Basch and Balthier and with a little more development, they could have become truly memorable.

Anyways, the gameplay was a blast though. And it must be said - sometimes, the difficulty is just ridiculous. Zodiark, Gilgamesh and Yiazmat almost made me give up on this game before completion. Be warned - if you're looking to get all the Espers and finish all hunts, you're going to have to put a lot, and I mean a lot of effort and patience into it.

It's a pretty good game when all is said and done, but it's still a ways off from being a tier 1 Final Fantasy, let alone being one of the best RPGs. Sony fanboys overhyped this one and it didn't meet expectations. Again, I totally agree with Gamespot's rating of FFXII. It deserves nothing more than a 9.0.

Substance D

11-25-2006, 08:45 AM

It's funny how you're all ****s and giggles over a game with no storyline and only 10 hours of gameplay, but suddenly FF12 doesn't meet YOUR expectations, so everyone is a Sony fanboy.

Fenrir

11-25-2006, 09:34 AM

It's funny how you're all ****s and giggles over a game with no storyline and only 10 hours of gameplay, but suddenly FF12 doesn't meet YOUR expectations, so everyone is a Sony fanboy.

I don't think anyone honestly expected the story in Gears of War to be something mega spectacular. We've known long since before the game was released that it's neck deep in cliches and will probably be a throwback to the 80's action era. Even the reviewers unanimously agreed that Gears was particularly weak on plot, but where it faltered, it more than delivered with it's unmatchable presentation. "only 10 hours of gameplay"? You do know that Gears has got a *gasp* fantastic multiplayer mode that has dethroned Halo 2 over Xbox Live, doncha bubby? I started Gears of War expecting a great game, not a great story and that's exactly what I got.

But FFXII had been herailed as the best FF since the very first Japanese Famitsu review hit the net. And from there onwards, just about everyone praised the game for it's twist n' turn ridden storyline and intriguing characters and whatnot and the game barely managed to deliver even half of those promises. And then there was Zenien adding more fuel to the hype machine over here posting even more reviews and going all ga-ga over it. For such a lengthy game, FFXII sure does feel hollow when it comes to the overall story. My expectations for FFXII were no different than what I (or anyone else for that matter) expect from any Final Fantasy.

Oh and it's funny how you chose to compensate for the inadequacies of FFXII by questioning my preference for another game instead of actually responding to the points of criticism that I raised. Sony fanboy indeed.

Substance D

11-25-2006, 10:19 AM

I don't think anyone honestly expected the story in Gears of War to be something mega spectacular. We've known long since before the game was released that it's neck deep in cliches and will probably be a throwback to the 80's action era. Even the reviewers unanimously agreed that Gears was particularly weak on plot, but where it faltered, it more than delivered with it's unmatchable presentation. "only 10 hours of gameplay"? You do know that Gears has got a *gasp* fantastic multiplayer mode that has dethroned Halo 2 over Xbox Live, doncha bubby? I started Gears of War expecting a great game, not a great story and that's exactly what I got.

But FFXII had been herailed as the best FF since the very first Japanese Famitsu review hit the net. And from there onwards, just about everyone praised the game for it's twist n' turn ridden storyline and intriguing characters and whatnot and the game barely managed to deliver even half of those promises. And then there was Zenien adding more fuel to the hype machine over here posting even more reviews and going all ga-ga over it. For such a lengthy game, FFXII sure does feel hollow when it comes to the overall story. My expectations for FFXII were no different than what I (or anyone else for that matter) expect from any Final Fantasy.

Oh and it's funny how you chose to compensate for the inadequacies of FFXII by questioning my preference for another game instead of actually responding to the points of criticism that I raised. Sony fanboy indeed.

Exactly. I honestly think people who say Gears does not have much of a plot and is riddled with cliches like it is a bad thing are morons.

Okay, so you admit that it has a crappy story, but then label anyone who thinks it's crappy as a moron? So you're a moron then?

And seriously, with every game there's always some over eager fanboy posting rave reviews and saying it's the second coming. You learn to ignore them.

But getting back to FF12, I actually agreed with most of your points. Read my post above. I disagree on what you said about Balthier and Basch. I beleive those are two of the main characters that received an adequate amount of development. Ashe and Fran being the other two. Vaan is presented as the main character, and I was waiting for his importance to the plot to be revealed, but it turns out he didn't really have any. And Penelo... well, I guess she's just there for the ride.

There might not be as many character moments, but I feel this is a good case of quality over quantity. The characters get their feelings out, make their decisions and then move on. They don't sit around and act like drama queens like in previous FF games. The dialogue is sharp and decisive. The character's histories are integrated organically into the storyline. In most FFs, character development usually happens this way: Character runs into something/someone from his/her past, or you visit that character's hometown. **** goes down, and the character is forced to confront his past. Character triumphs and grows, determined to see the main quest through to the end. In FF12, the characters don't have time to pursue their own agendas, the main conflict is always the center of the narrative.

And I found Balthier very memorable. He's a great character, and he steals most of the scenes he's in.

Personally, I feel that FF12 deserves around a 9.4. Like YOU said before, the gameplay is a blast. And when you say the story isn't up to par, what other games are you comparing it to? The storyline is still better than 90% of the other RPGs out there. (I heard Oblivion is famous for it's memorable characters and emotionally charged storylines...:whatever:) And it's funny that you point out the Famistu score as being the exception, when it averages above a 90% in most reviews:

[/URL] GameSpot (http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/sitedetails.asp?siteid=15)
10/31/2006
9 out of 10
90.0%
GameSpy (http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/sitedetails.asp?siteid=503)
10/30/2006
5 out of 5
100.0%
IGN (http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/sitedetails.asp?siteid=1188)
10/27/2006
9.5 out of 10
95.0%
Official Playstation Magazine
11/1/2006
10 out of 10
100.0%
(http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/sitedetails.asp?siteid=53) Electronic Gaming Monthly
11/1/2006
9 out of 10
90.0%
http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/images/gr/siteprofile.gif (http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/sitedetails.asp?siteid=512) Game Informer
11/1/2006
9.25 out of 10
92.5%
GamePro (http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/sitedetails.asp?siteid=46)
10/31/2006
5 out of 5
100.0%
PSM Magazine
10/1/2006
9.5 out of 10
95.0%
(http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/sitedetails.asp?siteid=702) Worth Playing (http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/launchreview.asp?reviewid=744444)
11/21/2006
9.8 out of 10
98.0%
[URL="http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/launchreview.asp?reviewid=743589"]Gaming Target (http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/sitedetails.asp?siteid=1437)
11/17/2006
10 out of 10
100.0%

So in the end, you're more than welcome to your opinion, but don't try to pass it off as the majority's. And I'm not a Sony fanboy. I rarely play videogames at all...

Fenrir

11-25-2006, 12:05 PM

Okay, so you admit that it has a crappy story, but then label anyone who thinks it's crappy as a moron? So you're a moron then?

No, you are the moron here for his apparent failure to read such a simple thing. What I said was - " I honestly think people who say Gears does not have much of a plot and is riddled with cliches like it is a bad thing are morons". I've acknowledged that Gears has cliches and not much of plot, but it still works great because of the awesome presentation. Really, it doesn't make you look good when you take words out of context from my post like that. Such diseased dishonesty will get you nowhere. This is my post in question in it's entirety:

Exactly. I honestly think people who say Gears does not have much of a plot and is riddled with cliches like it is a bad thing are morons. Thanks to the game's high production values and awesome presentation, even though many feel the story was lacking, cinematically speaking it was still presented extremely well that really made it seem reminiscent of the many great 80's action movies.

And Gamespot summed up on thing excellently in their review regarding what "sophisticated" jackasses say about the "poor" dialogue in Gears - the heroes in Gears of War are grunts, they are hardened soldiers, they are trained to kick ass and take names and in Gears, they talked exactly how one would realisitically expect them to. And I really cherished that element in the game. Gears is never afraid to be "dumb", if contextually speaking that is the best option.

I don't see anything wrong there. Would you mind pointing it out?

And seriously, with every game there's always some over eager fanboy posting rave reviews and saying it's the second coming. You learn to ignore them.

I couldn't because I'm a FF fanboy myself. Pity you have such low standards but I'm not surprised really. Since you claim to be not much of a gamer, you don't have a clue as to how storylines are so much better in other games that are in the same class as FFXII.

There might not be as many character moments, but I feel this is a good case of quality over quantity.

No, it's not. None of the characters recieved sufficient exposition. It's called lazy writing.

The characters get their feelings out, make their decisions and then move on. They don't sit around and act like drama queens like in previous FF games. The dialogue is sharp and decisive. The character's histories are integrated organically into the storyline.

There are many different things that are barely even touched by the storyline in FF12. For example, if Balthier was a judge, why didn't Gabranth or Bergan recognize him? Surely the only son of the very own Doctor Cid wouldn't have been such an obscure personality in Archadia. We know that there's bad blood between father and son, but what exactly happened between them? Why did he become a sky pirate and when? How long was he a judge? How did he meet Fran?

Why exactly is Vayne so much more ruthless and malicious than his younger brother who is the exact opposite? Why was Venat helping Cid and Vayne? What was she getting out of it? What really happened between her and the other gods?

Similarly, why did the game gloss over the brotherly relationship between Basch and Gabranth? Why wasn't it looked at in more detail? Why does Basch serve Dalmasca so emphatically? What's his complete story? It's not a fact unknown that Basch characteristically resembles Auron in a lot of ways, but Auron was simply a much more stronger character because he was fleshed out so well.

In most FFs, character development usually happens this way: Character runs into something/someone from his/her past, or you visit that character's hometown. **** goes down, and the character is forced to confront his past. Character triumphs and grows, determined to see the main quest through to the end.

And that's exactly what I'm talking about - character development, something that is lacking in FF12.

In FF12, the characters don't have time to pursue their own agendas, the main conflict is always the center of the narrative.

But the characters are always driven by their agendas. It's their primary motivation that gives them the will to see their quest to the end. They may have a common goal but every character is in the fray for his own reasons and his own purposes. It's a pretty basic element of storytelling that applies to FF12 as well. Only difference is FF12 doesn't place satisfactory emphasis on it's characters.

And I found Balthier very memorable. He's a great character, and he steals most of the scenes he's in.

Yet he was quite underdeveloped and could have been so much better. A perfect example of wasted potential. Same goes for Basch too.

Personally, I feel that FF12 deserves around a 9.4. Like YOU said before, the gameplay is a blast.

Unfortunately storyline is significantly more important in an RPG than in other genres which is why FF12 loses points. The gameplay is great sure, but I don't play RPGs to fight Bahamuts and complete side-quests. It's for the story, everything else is just icing on the cake. If a story isn't compelling enough, there is simply no motivation for me to invest my time in RPGs like Final Fantasy. Unless of course it is a true RPG like Oblivion or Neverwinter Nights that are not completely driven by the story but rather the actions of the player.

And when you say the story isn't up to par, what other games are you comparing it to? The storyline is still better than 90% of the other RPGs out there.

Yes, compared to all RPGs that also includes crap titles, yes it is better. But "better" does not necessarily mean great. Despite it's superior dialogue, the plot of FF12 pales in comparison to FFVI, FFVII, FFIX, FFX, Chrono Trigger, Chrono Cross and Xenogears, all of which have been made by the very same company.

Which consequently brings me to another problem I have with the storyline in FFXII. From the beginning of the game, it's all about overthrowing the Archadian Empire and despite some startling revelations, there are no real twists or turns in the actual storyline. For example, FFVII starts with fighting the Shinra, then it slowly diverts towards Cloud's personal Vendetta against Sephiroth which then turns into a quest to save the planet, and that too giving sufficient time for each and every major character to develop and grown on his own. See how the game keeps interesting by spicing the storyline and then intertwining all of those into a single objective?

Even in FFX, it starts with Tidus' arrival into a new world and from there onwards, proceeds to tell his tale as a guardian on his quest to defeat Sin. Then there is an extensive telling of his relationship with Auron and Jecht. Add to that the love story with Yuna and his attempt to get back to his own time. See that there are several different subplots at work here that form together to become a coherent, immersive storyline?

And my personal favorite example - Xenogears, that still holds the crown for the best and deepest storyline in a game, ever. There are so many different subplots, it's amazing how the game keeps track of them and ties them with each other.

The story of FFXII can be summed up best as a one-way street with no crossings or intersections. It is like I said, monotonous and too focused on a singular goal. Even the individual storylines of many major characters have a noticeably lighter impact on the overall plot than it should.

(I heard Oblivion is famous for it's memorable characters and emotionally charged storylines...:whatever:)

Oblivion is famous for being a true RPG where the player drives the game instead of being driven by the storyline. In Oblivion you're not stuck with multiple characters with singular roles. Rather you have a single character that can play multiple roles, even at the same time. It's all about choice and experimentation.

You can be a badass assassin who kill targets with his blade, staged "accidents" or even paranoia.

You can be an noble knight that chooses to defend the Emperor.

You can be the honorable thief that steals from the rich and gives to the poor.

You can be the mage whose tales of power, knowledge and wisdom travel to the farthest reaches of the land.

You can be the prophesized hero whose advent will hope to bring peace and tranquility to the kingdom.

You can be the necromancer who awakens the dead and summons unimaginable abominations.

You can be the stealthy archer who can hit the eye of a bird from half-a-mile away without making a sound.

You can be the monk who breaks his enemies with his bare hands.

You can be the vampire who preys on unwary bystanders to quench his nightly bloodlust and fears the rays of dawn.

You can be a legend whose very mention demands admiration and envy.

You can be one and/or all of the above.

Yeah, I'd love to a Final Fantasy try and pull that off. :whatever:

And it's funny that you point out the Famistu score as being the exception, when it averages above a 90% in most reviews:
GameSpot (http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/launchreview.asp?reviewid=738829)
10/31/2006
9 out of 10
90.0%

GameSpy (http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/launchreview.asp?reviewid=738437)
10/30/2006
5 out of 5
100.0%
IGN (http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/launchreview.asp?reviewid=737964)
10/27/2006
9.5 out of 10
95.0%
Official Playstation Magazine
11/1/2006
10 out of 10
100.0%
Electronic Gaming Monthly
11/1/2006
9 out of 10
90.0%
http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/images/gr/siteprofile.gif (http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/sitedetails.asp?siteid=512) Game Informer
11/1/2006
9.25 out of 10
92.5%
GamePro (http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/launchreview.asp?reviewid=738653)
10/31/2006
5 out of 5
100.0%
PSM Magazine
10/1/2006
9.5 out of 10
95.0%
Worth Playing (http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/launchreview.asp?reviewid=744444)
11/21/2006
9.8 out of 10
98.0%
Gaming Target (http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/launchreview.asp?reviewid=743589)
11/17/2006
10 out of 10
100.0%

Please, take a reading comprehension class:

But FFXII had been herailed as the best FF since the very first Japanese Famitsu review hit the net.

I never stated the Famitsu score (which if I remember correctly, was the highest score ever given to a Final Fantasy by the publication and it most certainly doesn't deserve it) as being the exception, but rather one that started the whole unabashful praise machine for this game. Besides, didn't I already state that I agreed with Gamespot's verdict of the game?

So in the end, you're more than welcome to your opinion, but don't try to pass it off as the majority's. And I'm not a Sony fanboy. I rarely play videogames at all...

My opinion is right, justified and well articulated on all points unless of course, you prove otherwise. And majority opinion always has little relevance to the merits and demerits of anything.

Substance D

11-25-2006, 01:17 PM

No, you are the moron here for his apparent failure to read such a simple thing. What I said was - " I honestly think people who say Gears does not have much of a plot and is riddled with cliches like it is a bad thing are morons". I've acknowledged that Gears has cliches and not much of plot, but it still works great because of the awesome presentation. Really, it doesn't make you look good when you take words out of context from my post like that. Such diseased dishonesty will get you nowhere. This is my post in question in it's entirety:

Okay, but you can't understand why people would think those things are bad? Sometimes people want something that is original and fresh. And you acuse me of having low standards? Let's just forget that the story is unoriginal, the character's backgrounds and actions are never explained, etc etc. You're basically listing what makes a story bad, but then you call anyone who actually says it's bad a moron. That makes sense. As long as it's pretty and flashy, it's good to me. :whatever:

And I didn't call you a moron, I was just pointing out that by your own logic, you called yourself one.

I don't see anything wrong there. Would you mind pointing it out?

I couldn't because I'm a FF fanboy myself. Pity you have such low standards but I'm not surprised really. Since you claim to be not much of a gamer, you don't have a clue as to how storylines are so much better in other games that are in the same class as FFXII.

I've played enough games, read enough books, seen enough movies to know what works. Or at least works for me. I really could care less what you think.

No, it's not. None of the characters recieved sufficient exposition. It's called lazy writing.

I already agreed with that.

There are many different things that are barely even touched by the storyline in FF12. For example, if Balthier was a judge, why didn't Gabranth or Bergan recognize him? Surely the only son of the very own Doctor Cid wouldn't have been such an obscure personality in Archadia. We know that there's bad blood between father and son, but what exactly happened between them? Why did he become a sky pirate and when? How long was he a judge? How did he meet Fran?

I agree, alot was left untouched. Some of it can be attributed to keeping the characters mysterious and keeping players guessing. Alot of what you brought up isn't integral to the plot and you can fill in the gaps yourself. Personally, I prefer it that way. But it's true, they left alot out and that can be seen as a flaw. Again, I agree with you that the plot was weak and things could have been fleshed out more. But it was pretty clear why Cid and Balthier had a falling out.

Why exactly is Vayne so much more ruthless and malicious than his younger brother who is the exact opposite? Why was Venat helping Cid and Vayne? What was she getting out of it? What really happened between her and the other gods?

Sorry, but you're making yourself look like a fool here. Pay attention. He wanted house Solider to survive. He was fulfilling the role the gods gave him as well. Alot of this is easy to figure out if you actually listened. Larsa obviously took after his father, who seemed more compassionate and honorable than Vayne. Who knows how long Vayne was being influenced by Vanar? And it doesn't matter, he saw what he was doing as the best for his people. He wasn't totally evil, and he made his motives clear. The story gives you what you need and moves on. It doesn't dwell on things and continually hit you over the head with it like the previous titles.

Similarly, why did the game gloss over the brotherly relationship between Basch and Gabranth? Why wasn't it looked at in more detail? Why does Basch serve Dalmasca so emphatically? What's his complete story? It's not a fact unknown that Basch characteristically resembles Auron in a lot of ways, but Auron was simply a much more stronger character because he was fleshed out so well.

Please, the only reason Basch resembles Auron is because people thought he was going to be the badass of the team and he's always pictured holding a twohanded sword. Basche is way different from Auron. Auron is more of a utilitarian, take no names leader type. He doesn't care about your feelings, and his mind is situated solely on the mission. Sure, he has his soft side, but it's hidden under layers of badassery and arrogance. Bashe is humble, and a bit of a martyr. He's not afraid to show his feelings, and he helps others at the cost of his own well-bring. He's not gruff and aloof like Auron. He's actually very polite and well-spoken.

Seriously, why do you need everything spelled out for you? And how was Auron any more fleshed out? Why did he become a gaurdian? Where was he born? How exactly was he involved with raising Tidus? How was he able to slip into Tidus's world and back into the present time? What's his complete story? What about Lulu? Where did she train at? Etc, etc. None of that matters, and it leaves things to the player's imagination.

And from what I gathered, Gabranth felt that Basch abandoned their homeland of Landis. I imagine Basch joining Dalmasca because he beleived in their cause more than the Empire's (since they did invade his homeland). And Gabranth joined the Empire to get back at Basch, and because they were the garaunteed winners. It's really not that hard to grasp. Try using your imagination, it's fun.

And that's exactly what I'm talking about - character development, something that is lacking in FF12.

But the characters are always driven by their agendas. It's their primary motivation that gives them the will to see their quest to the end. They may have a common goal but every character is in the fray for his own reasons and his own purposes. It's a pretty basic element of storytelling that applies to FF12 as well. Only difference is FF12 doesn't place satisfactory emphasis on it's characters.

FF12 is no different, the writing just doesn't hit you over the head with it repeatedly. They give you all you need, for the most part. I agree that they should have developed Penelo and Vaan more. The rest were fine and received about the same amount of attention as any other FF. Either way, it was enough to make you feel attached and know their objectives.

Yet he was quite underdeveloped and could have been so much better. A perfect example of wasted potential. Same goes for Basch too.

Han Solo is one of the most popular characters in pop culture. When did the movies ever dwell on his past?

Unfortunately storyline is significantly more important in an RPG than in other genres which is why FF12 loses points. The gameplay is great sure, but I don't play RPGs to fight Bahamuts and complete side-quests. It's for the story, everything else is just icing on the cake. If a story isn't compelling enough, there is simply no motivation for me to invest my time in RPGs like Final Fantasy. Unless of course it is a true RPG like Oblivion or Neverwinter Nights that are not completely driven by the story but rather the actions of the player.

The story worked well enough for me. Sorry you didn't feel the same way. And games like Oblivion get boring, because after awhile you realize that you're just running around in a sandbox. You don't care about the characters or the world. Running around setting cows on fire and stomping on soldier's dinners gets old. Games like Oblivion are on the total opposite end of the spectrum. I'm not saying that makes either type better than the other. They're just different experiences and you play them for different reasons.

Yes, compared to all RPGs that also includes crap titles, yes it is better. But "better" does not necessarily mean great. Despite it's superior dialogue, the plot of FF12 pales in comparison to FFVI, FFVII, FFIX, FFX, Chrono Trigger, Chrono Cross and Xenogears, all of which have been made by the very same company.

It's healthy that you have your own opinion. Have fun with that.

Which consequently brings me to another problem I have with the storyline in FFXII. From the beginning of the game, it's all about overthrowing the Archadian Empire and despite some startling revelations, there are no real twists or turns in the actual storyline. For example, FFVII starts with fighting the Shinra, then it slowly diverts towards Cloud's personal Vendetta against Sephiroth which then turns into a quest to save the planet, and that too giving sufficient time for each and every major character to develop and grown on his own. See how the game keeps interesting by spicing the storyline and then intertwining all of those into a single objective?

Even in FFX, it starts with Tidus' arrival into a new world and from there onwards, proceeds to tell his tale as a guardian on his quest to defeat Sin. Then there is an extensive telling of his relationship with Auron and Jecht. Add to that the love story with Yuna and his attempt to get back to his own time. See that there are several different subplots at work here that form together to become a coherent, immersive storyline?

Again, FF12 has those things. They just aren't as obvious, because instead of worrying about banging Yuna, the characters are more concerned with this whole continent engulfing war. The element that Ashe might have a thing for Bashe isn't important. Seriously, if you like the main characters acting like highschoolers that's cool. I enjoyed FFX too, FF12 is just different. The characters in FF12 just have their priorities straight.

And in case you haven't figured it out, the whole main character learning about his secret origins and then having his world turned upside down was really getting old in FF to the point where they weren't even trying anymore and it just felt tacked on. Suddenly Zidane is a clone. Suddenly Tidus is from a dream. *Yawn* I was waiting for the point where you learn that Vaan is really Rasler's brother. LOL.

But FF12 did have a twist. You learn that their gods are secretly supressing mankind's evolution. You can take it as you will, but at least the writers didn't resort to cheap shock tactics like previous FF games.

And my personal favorite example - Xenogears, that still holds the crown for the best and deepest storyline in a game, ever. There are so many different subplots, it's amazing how the game keeps track of them and ties them with each other.

The story of FFXII can be summed up best as a one-way street with no crossings or intersections. It is like I said, monotonous and too focused on a singular goal. Even the individual storylines of many major characters have a noticeably lighter impact on the overall plot than it should.

Oblivion is famous for being a true RPG where the player drives the game instead of being driven by the storyline. In Oblivion you're not stuck with multiple characters with singular roles. Rather you have a single character that can play multiple roles, even at the same time. It's all about choice and experimentation.

You can be a badass assassin who kill targets with his blade, staged "accidents" or even paranoia.

You can be an noble knight that chooses to defend the Emperor.

You can be the honorable thief that steals from the rich and gives to the poor.

You can be the mage whose tales of power, knowledge and wisdom travel to the farthest reaches of the land.

You can be the prophesized hero whose advent will hope to bring peace and tranquility to the kingdom.

You can be the necromancer who awakens the dead and summons unimaginable abominations.

You can be the stealthy archer who can hit the eye of a bird from half-a-mile away without making a sound.

You can be the monk who breaks his enemies with his bare hands.

You can be the vampire who preys on unwary bystanders to quench his nightly bloodlust and fears the rays of dawn.

You can be a legend whose very mention demands admiration and envy.

You can be one and/or all of the above.

Yeah, I'd love to a Final Fantasy try and pull that off. :whatever:

That's not the point of FF. Never has been. I'm sure Square could do something like that though. The art design, writing and huge worlds in FF12 are a testament to that. But they have no reason to because people don't play FF for that. They play for the characters and story, like you said above.

Why don't the creators of Oblivion try creating memorable characters, or riveting plots like FF? Or better yet, start small by hiring better concept artists and making their worlds look unique instead of the next D&d/Tolkien ripoff? What's stopping them from combining the best of both worlds?

Please, take a reading comprehension class:

I never stated the Famitsu score (which if I remember correctly, was the highest score ever given to a Final Fantasy by the publication and it most certainly doesn't deserve it) as being the exception, but rather one that started the whole unabashful praise machine for this game. Besides, didn't I already state that I agreed with Gamespot's verdict of the game?

My opinion is right, justified and well articulated on all points unless of course, you prove otherwise. And majority opinion always has little relevance to the merits and demerits of anything.

You're opinion isn't right or wrong. It's just your opinion. Look at your post. It's basically saying,"I like this, and you're wrong for thinking differently." It's not presenting any facts.

No one is calling you an Xbox fanboy because you like Gears of War. So why are you labeling anyone who likes FF12 as a Sony fanboy, which would be the majority of gaming publications and gamers in general? Grow up.

Substance D

11-25-2006, 01:27 PM

Oh, and what made Seymour so evil?

XwolverineX

11-25-2006, 02:05 PM

FF games NEED storylines though, they're character driven RPG's. Gears is a shooting game.

Substance D

11-25-2006, 02:10 PM

FF games NEED storylines though, they're character driven RPG's. Gears is a shooting game.

FF12 does, Fenrir just doesn't like the way it's presented. It's funny, I read that Gamespot review and it doesn't mention anything bad about the story.

Victor Von Doom

11-25-2006, 03:28 PM

Well All I've got to say is that Its a about time I've played a Final Fantasy game with a bit of a challenge, not terribly hard but at least I actually have to think tactically while I'm playing. All of the others were pretty easy imo.

Fenrir

11-25-2006, 04:29 PM

Okay, but you can't understand why people would think those things are bad? Sometimes people want something that is original and fresh.

There is practically nothing in the gaming world that is completely original and fresh. Technically speaking, FF12 is just as derivate and unoriginal as Gears of War, since it does NOTHING that hasn't been done before.

And you acuse me of having low standards? Let's just forget that the story is unoriginal, the character's backgrounds and actions are never explained, etc etc. You're basically listing what makes a story bad, but then you call anyone who actually says it's bad a moron. That makes sense. As long as it's pretty and flashy, it's good to me. :whatever:

Did you even fully read that post of mine that you quoted earlier? All that you said about Gears' storyline can be said about most classic 80s action movies, yet they are classics in their own right. The characters in Gears remind me a lot of the soldiers in McTiernan's Predator - none of them are well-written characters by any means, but they still fit in well with the situation. There is no sense in criticizing them for not having backgrounds or detailed motivations because they are not in a drama with extensive character study. They are in a sci-fi action movie and they are there to do what they do best - wreak havoc and rain chaos. Same goes for Gears. It never promises of being some deep analysis of the psyche of it's protagonists. Instead, it delivers on the premise of being a kickass action game in the vein of 80s action movies just like it was intended and expected to.

And I can't even begin to explain the overflowing stupidity of comment about Gears' excellent presentation equals "pretty and flashy". Oh yes, let's just totally forget about the fact that all the characters move and talk like hardened grunts like they are realistically expected to, the level of detail that went into their creation, the superb music, the thumping sound effects, the top-notch voice acting and despite the fact that it borrows heavily from standard sci-fi cliches, the game plays it straight and serious without any nudges, winks or tonges in cheek. Gears has by far the most immersive atmosphere of any game to date and it's cutscenes have a very professionally cinematic flair to them and the whole experience feels like an interactive big budget sci-fi movie.

But nooooo, that's not what Gears' presentation is about at all. It's the "pretty and flashy" graphics, man! :rolleyes:

And I didn't call you a moron, I was just pointing out that by your own logic, you called yourself one.

Pity you failed to grasp my logic in the first place.

I've played enough games, read enough books, seen enough movies to know what works. Or at least works for me. I really could care less what you think.

Really? It's a shame you didn't realize that sooner when you got ticked off by my criticism of FF12. Self-contradiction is a *****, ain't it bubby?

I agree, alot was left untouched. Some of it can be attributed to keeping the characters mysterious and keeping players guessing.

Mysterious is just a pretty word to compensate for such inadequacies.

Alot of what you brought up isn't integral to the plot and you can fill in the gaps yourself.

No, but it certainly would have made it more richer and interesting. Otherwise, we'd just have the basic setup of good vs evil and be done with it. It's the details, the specifics and the unique subtleties that help a story shine. But hey, it's not integral to the plot, they can be damned eh? And I have low standards for expecting more out of a franchise that has a track record of delivering excellent storylines? Silly me.

Again, I agree with you that the plot was weak and things could have been fleshed out more.

Then why are we even having this argument?

But it was pretty clear why Cid and Balthier had a falling out.

Yeah, I know that too. But it did not recieve sufficient exposition which would have made the father-son relationship much more intriguing.

Sorry, but you're making yourself look like a fool here. Pay attention.

So says the fool who can't even remember proper spellings of the characters. Great going there, chump. :up:

He wanted house Solider to survive. He was fulfilling the role the gods gave him as well. Alot of this is easy to figure out if you actually listened.

Yes, with two heirs to the Solidor family, they were afraid of their lineage being wiped out. And he was fulfilling the role the gods gave him? Weren't the gods angry at Vayne and Venat's tainted creation of the manufacted nethicite? How can they be angry at someone for fulfilling the role that they themselves gave him? Start making sense please.

Larsa obviously took after his father, who seemed more compassionate and honorable than Vayne.

Then why not Vayne? Obviously they are sons of the same father. Something must have happened for Vayne to become such a polar opposite of his father and his brother. What was it?

Who knows how long Vayne was being influenced by Vanar?

Venat has always been more of a guide than a possessor. It's clear from the storyline that Cid and Vayne were acting according to their own agendas.

And it doesn't matter, he saw what he was doing as the best for his people.

Yes, thrusting both empires in an unnecessary war when diplomacy was a ready and willing option was obviously in the best interest of his people.

He wasn't totally evil, and he made his motives clear.

Yes, and his motives were to eliminate and punish any who dare question his authoritarian rule over them. Vayne was an ideal example of an oppressive dictator who thrives on conquest and continually thirsts for greater power. How is that not evil enough is beyond me.

The story gives you what you need and moves on. It doesn't dwell on things and continually hit you over the head with it like the previous titles.

Yes, perhaps that is why you're using so many "who knows" and "maybes". Because the story gave you what you need and made everything oh-so-clear. :whatever:
Please, the only reason Basch resembles Auron is because people thought he was going to be the badass of the team and he's always pictured holding a twohanded sword.

That and the fact they are both introverts who are protecting a younger, more fragile leader. Both are victims who've been wronged in the past. Both are more inclined towards "serving" instead of "leading". Both Auron and Basch have a certain wisdom that stems from their experience in life.

Basche is way different from Auron.

Not exactly. Basche is different, but he also shares a lot of similarities with Auron.

Auron is more of a utilitarian, take no names leader type.

Yet not once in the entire story does he ever take a leadership role. Sure, he gives wise counsel and advises his younger companions, but he never really leads the charge. "This is your story". Sums it up pretty clear.

He doesn't care about your feelings, and his mind is situated solely on the mission.

I don't know where you're getting this "doesn't care about your feelings" bit. Sure, Auron was pretty isolated from the rest of the group save for Tidus, but there wasn't a single moment where he was at odds with his companions for bluntly and carelessly saying something that was on his mind. Basch too, like Auron, speaks when he needs to and doens't waste his words.

Sure, he has his soft side, but it's hidden under layers of badassery and arrogance.

I concede that Auron was more of a badass than Basch, but "arrogant"?

Bashe is humble, and a bit of a martyr.

Auron may not be humble, but he's definitely a martyr. There you go, another similarity.

He's not afraid to show his feelings, and he helps others at the cost of his own well-bring.

Actually, Basch was almost just as reserved as Auron is. And helping others at the cost of his own well-being? Kinda sounds like Auron when he was put his line on the line and got killed by Yunalesca trying to save Brasca from the final aeon.

He's not gruff and aloof like Auron.

Oh he very much is. Not as "gruff" maybe but definitely[/I aloof. I distinctly remember him as the character who interacts the least with the other protagonists aside from Ashe.

He's actually very polite and well-spoken.

That he is. But it still doesn't change the fact that resembles Auron in a lot of ways.

Seriously, why do you need everything spelled out for you? And how was Auron any more fleshed out?

Uhhh, because he had a much more extensive backstory that was told in greater detail? I mean, it's such an obvious point. :confused:

Why did he become a gaurdian?

He refused to marry the daughter of a high priest and was cast out. Braska too was deemed an outcast for marrying a "heathen" Al Bhed woman who bore him a child that was half al-Bhed. Since both men shared a common ground, Braska enlisted Auron to become his guardian. The story lays it out pretty clearly. If only you "pay attention" you'd have stopped making yourself look like a "fool" already.

Where was he born?

And how does that have any relevance to the overall plot?

How exactly was he involved with raising Tidus?

He didn't "raise" Tidus, you nitwit. Tidus knew of him as his father's friend. Since both were Braska's guardians.

How was he able to slip into Tidus's world and back into the present time?

With Jecht's (who had become Sin at the time) help. Again, the game clearly explained this point as well.

What's his complete story?

Play the game. FFX did an infinintely better job at answering the questions about character relationships than FFXII. You're asking retarded questions like "where was he born, where did she train" that has zero bearing on the overall plot. Some of your other question however, that ask about the nature of the characters' relationships with each other are valid because they affect the storyline and FFX did a good job of addressing them.

And from what I gathered, Gabranth felt that Basch abandoned their homeland of Landis. I imagine Basch joining Dalmasca because he beleived in their cause more than the Empire's (since they did invade his homeland). And Gabranth joined the Empire to get back at Basch, and because they were the garaunteed winners. It's really not that hard to grasp. Try using your imagination, it's fun.

Gabranth wanted to get back at Basch for fleeing from his homeland and he does so by joining the Archadian army, the very ones who attacked his homeland to begin with? Please, you're talking gibberish. The storyline clearly shows Gabranth hates his brother for still being able to retain his pride and dignity inspite of all that has transpired, when he himself couldn't even after allying with the ones who are triumphant.

But even so, it doesn't explain the real reasons that causes enmity between the brothers in the first place. If it was because Basch turned his back on his homeland, didn't Gabranth do the same by betraying himself to the Empire? How is that any different?

FF12 is no different, the writing just doesn't hit you over the head with it repeatedly. They give you all you need, for the most part. I agree that they should have developed Penelo and Vaan more. The rest were fine and received about the same amount of attention as any other FF. Either way, it was enough to make you feel attached and know their objectives.

Please, your apparent failure in providing definite, satisfactory answers from the game's story without speculation shows that FFXII's story is lacking in terms of proper exposition.

Han Solo is one of the most popular characters in pop culture. When did the movies ever dwell on his past?

They didn't because they never brought it up in the first place and it would have little relevance to the core plot. Solo was a lone wolf and didn't have anything to do with other major characters prior to meeting with Luke and Obi Wan.

On the other hand, Luke's past is dwelled upon in greater detail, because his story is directly related to that of other major characters and so it becomes necessary to elaborate them.

Balthier and Basch also clearly have their own histories that mingle directly with that of other major characters and the game's storyline does talk about it occassionally. It just didn't put enough emphasis on it.

The story worked well enough for me. Sorry you didn't feel the same way. And games like Oblivion get boring, because after awhile you realize that you're just running around in a sandbox. You don't care about the characters or the world. Running around setting cows on fire and stomping on soldier's dinners gets old.

If you are so big a dumbass as to think that's all you can do in Oblivion without attempting any meaningful quests that actually have an impact in the game and on your character, then you deserve to get bored.

Games like Oblivion are on the total opposite end of the spectrum. I'm not saying that makes either type better than the other. They're just different experiences and you play them for different reasons.

And that is exactly why your comparison of Oblivion's story with FFXII is downright stupid.

It's healthy that you have your own opinion. Have fun with that.

Of course I have an opinion. What matters is whether or not I am correct and judging by the lack of a substantial response on your part, it would seem that I am. Dismissing arguments as "it's only your opinion" is the oldest way of conceding in a discussion.

Again, FF12 has those things. They just aren't as obvious, because instead of worrying about banging Yuna, the characters are more concerned with this whole continent engulfing war. The element that Ashe might have a thing for Bashe isn't important. Seriously, if you like the main characters acting like highschoolers that's cool. I enjoyed FFX too, FF12 is just different. The characters in FF12 just have their priorities straight.

I love how you childishly and pitifully hold onto a single tangent about "banging Yuna" there and ignored EVERYTHING else I said about the stoyline elements in FFVII and FFX that were just as important to the plot as the main goal. Good work at showing us how much of a spineless, dishonest wretch you are. *applause*

And in case you haven't figured it out, the whole main character learning about his secret origins and then having his world turned upside down was really getting old in FF to the point where they weren't even trying anymore and it just felt tacked on. Suddenly Zidane is a clone. Suddenly Tidus is from a dream. *Yawn* I was waiting for the point where you learn that Vaan is really Rasler's brother. LOL.

Still, [I]something is better than nothing. Oh and you ***** and moan about characters having secret origins, yet have NO problem with Gabranth and Basch being brothers or Balthier and Cid being father and son? Hypocrisy is a beautiful thing indeed.

But FF12 did have a twist. You learn that their gods are secretly supressing mankind's evolution. You can take it as you will, but at least the writers didn't resort to cheap shock tactics like previous FF games.

Heh, you're reading something that isn't there and crediting the writers for it? LOL. WHEN exactly did talk of god "supressing" mankind's evolution ever come up in the entire course of the game? What the game DID talk about was the reasons for Archadia making manufacted nethicite was so that man could write his own history and be a master of his own fate instead of being a slave to the gods and do their bidding. And it's not like the gods IMPOSED their will upon man. That was simply the price for the power that was given to man by the gods - the Dynast King used that power in accordance with the rules of those who gave it to him to begin with.

That's not the point of FF. Never has been. I'm sure Square could do something like that though. The art design, writing and huge worlds in FF12 are a testament to that. But they have no reason to because people don't play FF for that. They play for the characters and story, like you said above.

Then what was the point of comparing the storylines of FF12 with Oblivion, and worse yet, Gears of War, chucky?

Why don't the creators of Oblivion try creating memorable characters, or riveting plots like FF? Or better yet, start small by hiring better concept artists and making their worlds look unique instead of the next D&d/Tolkien ripoff? What's stopping them from combining the best of both worlds?

Uhh, because that's how they want it to be like? The Elder Scrolls games have always been more of a medieval age fantasy rather than full-blown fantasy. The advantage of basing your art direction in reality is that it makes your world seem infinitely more believable than full-blown fantasies like FFXII. Keeping everything grounded so that the audience has an easy entry-point for the more bizarre and fantastical stuff coming ahead is always a good idea.

You're opinion isn't right or wrong. It's just your opinion. Look at your post. It's basically saying,"I like this, and you're wrong for thinking differently." It's not presenting any facts.

Did you even read my post? If I say FFXII's story is lacking because of the lack of emphasis on character development by presenting examples from the game's stroyline itself that clearly show the absence of sufficient exposition, how is it an "opinion"? When I say the FFXII has a monotonous storyline that never really branches into interesting subplots, how is that an opinion?

No one is calling you an Xbox fanboy because you like Gears of War. So why are you labeling anyone who likes FF12 as a Sony fanboy, which would be the majority of gaming publications and gamers in general? Grow up.

I said Sony fanboys overhyped the game but I never called the gaming publications as such, especially when I agree with *gasp* two of those very GAMING PUBLICATIONS regarding the deserving verdict fort FFXII. Grow a brain and you'll stop reading things that aren't there.

Fenrir

11-25-2006, 04:37 PM

Oh, and what made Seymour so evil?

Did you even play FFX, chuck?

Seymour was a half Guado and half-human who was seen as an abomination by his tribe. His old "butler" Guano explicitly states it when you're in Guadosalam. Plus the sacrificial death of his mother in becoming a fayth for the final summoning when he was still a child to get the people to accept her son (there is a short cutscene explaining the story when you first walk through the Zanarkand ruins near the end of the game) was all reason enough for Seymour to become increasingly morose and cynical over the years. Driven to malice by hatred and tragedy is a very common element amongst many villains.

Fenrir

11-25-2006, 04:41 PM

FF12 does, Fenrir just doesn't like the way it's presented. It's funny, I read that Gamespot review and it doesn't mention anything bad about the story.

There isn't anything particularly wrong about FFXII's presentation (although it still can't touch Gears of War with a mile long pole). My main beef is with the lacking story and the comparitively little character development and exposition.

Substance D

11-25-2006, 06:23 PM

Yeah, I bet it took you a long time to copy most of that off of Wikipedia, you tool. Anyways, I'll reply to our "conversation" when I get home. TTYL.

Benstamania

11-25-2006, 06:51 PM

After beating the game I can honestly say that I think I would take FFX over FF12, in the end the game just wasn't that good for a FF game.

Give me the remake of III on the DS anyday.

this is better than anything on the wii so far.

I'm shocked that you'd say that![/sarcasm]

Mr. Credible

11-25-2006, 09:37 PM

thanks for all the spoilers, you jerks.

some of us haven't finished the game yet.

MrHateYourself

11-26-2006, 12:39 AM

thanks for all the spoilers, you jerks.

some of us haven't finished the game yet.

It's too bad that you don't have the option to....I dunno....NOT read the thread. :whatever:

Why would you come in this thread if you don't want spoilers, anyway? That is the most retarded thing EVER. "Guys, let's talk about Final Fantasy 12, BUT....we can't say ANYTHING ABOUT IT."

Consider this thread as a door. If you open it and find your parents having sex, whose fault is it? YOURS, for opening the door. At least THIS door is clearly labeled "Parents Having Sex".

C. Lee

11-26-2006, 12:51 AM

Then again....people could use the spoiler tag option provided....that makes it like two signs on the door saying be careful before entering.

Zenien

11-26-2006, 02:16 AM

Wow Fenrir I wasn't aware that posting what were pretty overwhelmingly positive impressions about the game made me a Sony fanboy. Or that being a Sony fanboy is a requirement for having looked forward to and been active in sharing their excitment for the game.

Truely I thank you for showing humble being such as myself the way of light.

Fenrir

11-26-2006, 03:56 AM

Yeah, I bet it took you a long time to copy most of that off of Wikipedia, you tool.

Yeah, and Wikipedia was making just up everything by it's own instead of writing about what was actually in the game (heck, I even cited instances in the game when those story sequences occur). Retard. :whatever:

Fenrir

11-26-2006, 03:58 AM

Substance D

11-26-2006, 05:15 AM

Fudge. I had a long reply, but I accidently hit the wrong key and closed the window. Anyway, I basically proved Fenrir wrong in many ways.

First, the information he posted about Auron isn't even in the game. It's from supplemental literature. This quote is the only refernce from the game Wikipedia had:

Braska: "Let's show them they're wrong. A fallen summoner, a man from Zanarkand... and a warrior monk, doomed to obscurity for refusing the hand of the priest's daughter. What delightful irony it would be if we defeated Sin!"(Final Fantasy X)

Also, the Wikipedia article that you plagiarized from states that Auron was indeed Tidus's mentor. Seeing as how Tidus and Auron clearly have a history together, and that there are no other parental figures present in Tidus's life, it's safe to say Auron did indeed have a role in raising him.

And here's a definition of a leader:

1. somebody whom people follow: somebody who guides or directs others

Here are some quotes from the man himself:

Auron
"We rest here."

Wakka
"But, this is an Al Bhed shop!"

Auron
"Is that a problem?"

Wakka
"They don't believe in Yevon, and in Luca they..."
"They kidnapped Yuna!"

Auron
"Where were her guardians?"

[Wakka and Lulu place their hands to their foreheads]

Yuna
"Sir Auron's just concerned about your health."

Wakka
"I'm not tired one bit!"

Auron
"Well I am."

[He walks into the building; they follow him. The screen goes black as they sleep. Screen fades back in inside the building, known as Rin's Travel Agency]

Auron
"That's our cue, let's go."

Auron
"Don't tell Yuna you know about Sin and Jecht."
"You know her..."
"She would...distance herself from you."
"We do not want that."

Auron
"Next, we're going to Macalania Temple."
"Yuna can talk with Seymour there."
"We guardians will wait until they're done, and plan our next move."
"Understood?"

Auron
"We're all with you. Do as you will."

Auron
"We will protect Yuna from anyone."
"Even a maester."

Wakka
"This can't be happening."

Auron
"Go!"

Tidus
"No way! I'm fighting!"

[Auron takes out his sword and holds it in front of Tidus' face]

Auron
"I said go!"

Tidus
"So what do we do?"

[He turns away from the group]

Auron
"We think, and we wait."

For a guy that you say isn’t a leader, he sure does a lot of bossing around.

Second, Final Fantasy 12 isn't a character-driven narrative. It's plot-driven, and the people who are smart enough to realize this can see that it was successful in this. It seems Fenrir doesn't understand the difference, because the review he supports actually states the opposite of what he feels.

Third, many characters share those qualities. Basch and Auron are two totally different characters. Which one is better is your own opinion.

Forth, Fenrir stated that the characters motives and backgrounds aren't established enough, specifically Balthier's, Vayne's and Basch's. It seems he is unable to grasp the obvious from their actions and dialogue. See, that's important because that's how characters are developed in plot-driven narratives. Again, it's different, but that doesn't make it bad.

Here's Balthier's speech at Phon Coast, basically summing up everything about the character:

Balthier: I know somebody like that. He became obsessed with
Nethicite and blocked everything else out. Always saying
nonsensical things to himself. "Was it Eidos or was it Venus."
Who cares. Everything did was for Nethicite. He developed
airships, weapons and even me to be a Judge. Balthier: It's one of the skeletons in my closet. Anyway, I soon
ran away. From the obligation of being a Judge...from him.
Cidifus Dem Bunanza. Draklor Research Facility's Dr. Cid. The
Nethicite robbed him of his spirit and he stopped being himself.
Stopped being my father. Don't end up like that.(pause) I left.
I couldn't see him be taken in by that stone anymore. I left
under the impression that I'd become free. And yet, not knowing
it was Nethicite, I got my hands on the Twilight Shard, met you
and ended up here. In the end, I couldn't run away at all. That's
why I want to finish this. I'm done being strangled by the past.

You have to have you head pretty far up your ass not to realize the importance
of his speech. First of all, it clearly explains his falling out with Cid. Second, he
took to the skies because the sky represents freedom. And third, he realizes he
can't escape his past and that he's basically becoming like his father - obsessed
with Nethicite. Like I said before, the dialogue and actions of the characters
give you everything you need. It's sufficient, and if you think otherwise it's
your opinion or own failure to comprehend the obvious.

And Fenny, you were pretty much wrong about Vayne and Basch as well. Did
you even bother to pay attention?

Here's what your precious Wikipedia has to say about things:

On Basch:
After the Archadian Empire conquered their homeland, Basch fled to
Dalmasca, joining its militant force.

On Gabranth:
The leader of the Judges whose image is on the game logo. He
is also Basch's twin brother, Noah fon Ronsenburg, the man truly
responsible for the deaths of Reks and King Raminas. Unlike Basch,
he wholeheartedly supports Archadia, enlisting after their
homeland was conquered.

On Vayne:
At the age of 16, Emperor Gramis ordered him to kill his two
older brothers who were plotting treason, although officially it
was said that they both died in battle. Though he wields a
considerable amount of authority, Vayne does notabuse his power;
rather, he makes an effort to foster a positive relationship with
the conquered Dalmascans and insists that the welfare of the
people is his foremost concern.

In truth, Vayne, who is arguably
the main villain, wishes to be the new Dynast King to force his
ideals of peace at the cost of those in his way, setting the
events that framed Basch. To that end, he sought out the power of
the rogue Occuria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Races_of_Final_Fantasy#Occuria) Venat despite his dislike of the Occurias for
essentially controlling the Humes and their future. To ensure the
House of Solidor would be the central autocratic power of the
empire, Vayne poisoned his father and framed the Senate for this,
so as to both overthrow the Senate's control in the empire and insert
himself as its Emperor.

Vayne believes though. He believes that his hand is doing nothing but
good
for the strangled Dalmasca,that settling the rebel faction is order--
they are, after all, little more than terrorists under Ashe's lead.
He puts down Dalmascan insurgencies. He works to free Ivalice
from the control of the Occuria. He protects not only his younger
brother, Prince Larsa, but does the inhumane in order to keep Larsa
unsullied and idealist

And see, all of that is mentioned in the game! They didn't pull it out of a book.
Vayne is not a black and white character like Seymour. Seymour is clearly
insane. Vayne is making difficult choices, and assuming the role of dictator for
the good of his people, and quite possibly the good of all Ivalice.

And characters can often have multiple agendas and conflicting ideals. It's called
"character depth".
Maybe you've forgotten about such a concept from playing Gears of War so much.
The Occuria were using Vayne, and Vayne was using the Occuria. Cid and Vayne's
goals might have been different, but they coincided for the time being and they
were working together. You might even call the reveal of their true allegiances and
motives a "twist" or a "turn". See, FF12 has those too!

But the point is, you're as fallible as anyone else. Your opinion isn't right. Anyone
that liked the game more than you and is willing to defend it is not a Sony fanboy.
So shut up and know your place.

Substance D

11-26-2006, 05:23 AM

Oh yeah, I was wrong about Seymour. I remember the parts detailing his past now. Thanks for that.

Fenrir

11-26-2006, 08:13 AM

Fudge. I had a long reply, but I accidently hit the wrong key and closed the window.

Yes, that's about as convincing as the pitiful "dog ate my homework, sir". :whatever:

Anyway, I basically proved Fenrir wrong in many ways.

Let's see how.

And here's a definition of a leader:

1. somebody whom people follow: somebody who guides or directs others

Funny how you chose to ignore OTHER definitions of the word "leader" that would compromise your argument about Auron being one:

2. somebody or something in lead
3. somebody in charge of others

Here are some quotes from the man himself:

Auron
"We rest here."

Yuna
"Sir Auron's just concerned about your health."

Wakka
"I'm not tired one bit!"

Auron
"Well I am."

[He walks into the building; they follow him. The screen goes black as they sleep. Screen fades back in inside the building, known as Rin's Travel Agency]

Auron
"Next, we're going to Macalania Temple."
"Yuna can talk with Seymour there."
"We guardians will wait until they're done, and plan our next move."
"Understood?"

The man was tired and being a guardian who has already undertaken the pilgrimage before, he knew there wouldn't be another opportunity to rest for some time. That's why other guardians don't argue with him. Because he knew well and good what he was talking about. He was like the wise counselor of the group.

Wakka
"But, this is an Al Bhed shop!"

Auron
"Is that a problem?"

Wakka
"They don't believe in Yevon, and in Luca they..."
"They kidnapped Yuna!"

Auron
"Where were her guardians?"

[Wakka and Lulu place their hands to their foreheads]

He was questioning their opinions. How doe sthat make him a leader?

Auron
"That's our cue, let's go."

So he's a bit bossy. But being bossy doesn't really make you a leader.

Auron
"Don't tell Yuna you know about Sin and Jecht."
"You know her..."
"She would...distance herself from you."
"We do not want that.

He's giving sound advice.

Auron
"We're all with you. Do as you will."

Sounds more like someone who SERVES instead of LEADING.

Auron
"We will protect Yuna from anyone."
"Even a maester."

He was voicing his role as a guardian.

Tidus
"No way! I'm fighting!"

[Auron takes out his sword and holds it in front of Tidus' face]

Auron
"I said go!"

Tidus
"So what do we do?"

[He turns away from the group]

Auron
"We think, and we wait."

So you're implying just because someone is a leader, they can't be told what to do? I mean, it's indisputable that Cloud was the leader in FFVII, but throughout the game we see him being told by other people where to go and what to do. Communication works both ways and it doesn't impact the role of leadership.

For a guy that you say isn’t a leader, he sure does a lot of bossing around.

Auron wasn't the leader. The storyline of the game and his role in it makes it blatantly clear.

First, the information he posted about Auron isn't even in the game. It's from supplemental literature. This quote is the only refernce from the game Wikipedia had:

Braska: "Let's show them they're wrong. A fallen summoner, a man from Zanarkand... and a warrior monk, doomed to obscurity for refusing the hand of the priest's daughter. What delightful irony it would be if we defeated Sin!"(Final Fantasy X)

You moron, most of the information about the history between Jecht, Braska and Auron is contained in the Jecht Spheres that trigger cutscenes whenever you find one. "Supplemental literature"? Did FFX have a novel? Or a comic book? Or any other source for information that wasn't contained in the game?

Also, the Wikipedia article that you plagiarized from states that Auron was indeed Tidus's mentor. Seeing as how Tidus and Auron clearly have a history together, and that there are no other parental figures present in Tidus's life, it's safe to say Auron did indeed have a role in raising him.

Tidus being raised by Auron wasn't mentioned in the game (at least as far as I knew). What the game DOES mention is that Tidus knew of Auron as his father's friend and that is enough to sum up the basis of their relationship.

Second, Final Fantasy 12 isn't a character-driven narrative. It's plot-driven, and the people who are smart enough to realize this can see that it was successful in this. Forth, Fenrir stated that the characters motives and backgrounds aren't established enough, specifically Balthier's, Vayne's and Basch's. It seems he is unable to grasp the obvious from their actions and dialogue. See, that's important because that's how characters are developed in plot-driven narratives. Again, it's different, but that doesn't make it bad.

Unfortunately for you, you didn't realize the shortcomings in the storytelling of FFXII for being a plot-driven narrative ONLY instead of being BOTH plot-driven and character driven like it's predecessors and other prestigious RPGs like the Chrono series and Xenogears.

It seems Fenrir doesn't understand the difference, because the review he supports actually states the opposite of what he feels.

The review states that FFXII has "a good story (as a game) overall" and by all accounts I agree. But it doesn't compare FFXII's storyline to other Final Fantasies or even that of other games that have a much better story. My criticism was aimed at showing how high did the storyline of FFXII measure up against other similarly acclaimed games in it's class and the result is not good enough.

Third, many characters share those qualities. Basch and Auron are two totally different characters. Which one is better is your own opinion.

Really? Can you name some of them please, ones who have appeared in a Final Fantasy or any other RPG?

Here's Balthier's speech at Phon Coast, basically summing up everything about the character:

Balthier: I know somebody like that. He became obsessed with
Nethicite and blocked everything else out. Always saying
nonsensical things to himself. "Was it Eidos or was it Venus."
Who cares. Everything did was for Nethicite. He developed
airships, weapons and even me to be a Judge. Balthier: It's one of the skeletons in my closet. Anyway, I soon
ran away. From the obligation of being a Judge...from him.
Cidifus Dem Bunanza. Draklor Research Facility's Dr. Cid. The
Nethicite robbed him of his spirit and he stopped being himself.
Stopped being my father. Don't end up like that.(pause) I left.
I couldn't see him be taken in by that stone anymore. I left
under the impression that I'd become free. And yet, not knowing
it was Nethicite, I got my hands on the Twilight Shard, met you
and ended up here. In the end, I couldn't run away at all. That's
why I want to finish this. I'm done being strangled by the past.

You have to have you head pretty far up your ass not to realize the importance of his speech. First of all, it clearly explains his falling out with Cid.

Yes, I remember the Phon coast revelation quite vividly. It doesn't explain many things about the bad blood between Balthier and Cid. Like, we know Balthier ultimately cared for his father and this is evident when he walks up to him in his final moments. It was Cid's obsession with Nethicite that turned Balthier away. But why does Cid resent Balthier? Why didn't Gabranth or Bergan recognize him if he was a judge, or even as the son of the very own Doctor Cid? It's a glaring plothole just to get the "shock effect" of the Phon Coast revalation.

Second, he took to the skies because the sky represents freedom.

Symbolism can be applied anywhere and is never a compelling argument, chucky. "The sky represents freedom"? LOL, I can say the same for the vast and empty green Ozmone plains and you can't prove it wrong.

And third, he realizes he can't escape his past and that he's basically becoming like his father - obsessed with Nethicite. Like I said before, the dialogue and actions of the characters give you everything you need. It's sufficient, and if you think otherwise it's your opinion or own failure to comprehend the obvious.

Yes, sufficient enough to the point that you STILL haven't answered a lot of my questions.

And Fenny, you were pretty much wrong about Vayne and Basch as well. Did you even bother to pay attention?

Here's what your precious Wikipedia has to say about things:

On Basch:
After the Archadian Empire conquered their homeland, Basch fled to
Dalmasca, joining its militant force.

On Gabranth:
The leader of the Judges whose image is on the game logo. He
is also Basch's twin brother, Noah fon Ronsenburg, the man truly
responsible for the deaths of Reks and King Raminas. Unlike Basch,
he wholeheartedly supports Archadia, enlisting after their
homeland was conquered.

Yes, I know full and well that Basch fled to Dalmasca after his homeland was conquered and that Gabranth supports the empire. But Gabranth sees Basch as more than just a traitor to the empire. There is a more personal rivalry between them.

On Vayne:
At the age of 16, Emperor Gramis ordered him to kill his two
older brothers who were plotting treason, although officially it
was said that they both died in battle. Though he wields a
considerable amount of authority, Vayne does notabuse his power;
rather, he makes an effort to foster a positive relationship with
the conquered Dalmascans and insists that the welfare of the
people is his foremost concern.

Pity that you fail to read the very following words "In truth" after that paragraph that state the diplomat Vayne was only a cover for his true intentions.

In truth, Vayne, who is arguably
the main villain, wishes to be the new Dynast King to force his
ideals of peace at the cost of those in his way, setting the
events that framed Basch.

Sounds pretty evil to me.

To that end, he sought out the power of
the rogue Occuria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Races_of_Final_Fantasy#Occuria) Venat despite his dislike of the Occurias for
essentially controlling the Humes and their future.

That's exactly what I said in my last post about Cid and Vayne's intentions, jackass:

What the game DID talk about was the reasons for Archadia making manufacted nethicite was so that man could write his own history and be a master of his own fate instead of being a slave to the gods and do their bidding.

It is quite apparent now that reading comprehension is not one of your strong points.

To ensure the House of Solidor would be the central autocratic power of the empire, Vayne poisoned his father and framed the Senate for this,
so as to both overthrow the Senate's control in the empire and insert
himself as its Emperor.

Sounds a lot like the usual power-hungry wannabe dictator.

Vayne believes though. He believes that his hand is doing nothing but
good for the strangled Dalmasca,that settling the rebel faction is order-- they are, after all, little more than terrorists under Ashe's lead.
He puts down Dalmascan insurgencies.

Where are you pulling that from? Vayne abruptly refuses to seek an open diplomatic solution with the Dalmascans and the resistance, is spite of the insistence by his younger brother. You're talking about Vayne not being completely evil yet his plan to completely eliminate his enemies even when he was offerred a chance to peacefully negotiate with them is A-OK in your book? Bloody hypocrite.

He works to free Ivalice from the control of the Occuria.

And to eliminate both Rozarrian and Dalmascan empires so that HE gets total control of Ivalice. Yup, stereotypical dictator indeed.

He protects not only his younger
brother, Prince Larsa, but does the inhumane in order to keep Larsa
unsullied and idealist

Uhh...what?

And see, all of that is mentioned in the game! They didn't pull it out of a book.

Vayne is not a black and white character like Seymour. Seymour is clearly
insane. Vayne is making difficult choices, and assuming the role of dictator for the good of his people, and quite possibly the good of all Ivalice.

And characters can often have multiple agendas and conflicting ideals. It's called
"character depth".
Maybe you've forgotten about such a concept from playing Gears of War so much.

Pity such so-called "character-depth" is portrayed so poorly. And what have here? More expressions of Substance D's consistent insecurity by taking YET ANOTHER jab at Gears? Oh dear...

The Occuria were using Vayne, and Vayne was using the Occuria.

Umm, the Occuria wanted to PUNISH Vayne and the Empire for defying them by allying themselves with the "heretic" Venat. How were the Occuria USING Vayne again, chummy?

Cid and Vayne's goals might have been different, but they coincided for the time being and they were working together. You might even call the reveal of their true allegiances and motives a "twist" or a "turn". See, FF12 has those too!

Actually, both Cid and Vayne have always been on the same wavelength about freeing mankind from the control of the Occuria by duplicating the sources of their power with manufacted Nethicite. And they were both being guided by Venat all along. "Twist n turn" my ass.

Oh and why exactly was Venat helping Vayne and Cid? What did he hope to gain out of it?

But the point is, you're as fallible as anyone else. Your opinion isn't right.

Actually I am. This little discourse so far has proven at least that much.

Anyone that liked the game more than you and is willing to defend it is not a Sony fanboy.

OK, so in your case, they can also unenlightened idiots who don't know what they are they are talking about since you "rarely play videogames at all".

So shut up and know your place.

You're in no position to tell anyone to shut up, chucky, because had you known when to open and not to open your useless trap, you wouldn't have been so ticked off by my criticism of FFXII inspite of claiming that you "couldn't care less" of what I think. *sigh* Sometimes even a good ol' shot to ze foot is not enough to snap some people out of their idiocy.

chosen1

11-26-2006, 09:52 AM

Just started playin this game. Anything I should know or do in the very begining..?

Hades

11-26-2006, 09:53 AM

One thing I dislike about this game is it feels too much like an MMORPG

Hades

11-26-2006, 09:55 AM

Just started playin this game. Anything I should know or do in the very begining..?I'm not sure.

Plan out what types and classes you want your character at would probably be good.

And if you don't mind cheating, you can, right at the beginning

Easy way to level up supposedly. Look a few pages back and it'll say how to:up:

Course, you won't be able to use limit breaks.

Victor Von Doom

11-26-2006, 10:54 PM

One thing I dislike about this game is it feels too much like an MMORPG
Yeah that's true, except it doesn't take you days to level up.

Substance D

11-27-2006, 09:54 AM

I ended up buying Oblivion last night along with my new computer. Half an hour into the game confirmed all of my doubts. It sucks. The character models are hideous. I downloaded the topless patch and it did nothing to improve the masturbation quality of the female characters. And why does the Emperor look like Don Murphy? You think with one of the most powerful character editors in an RPG, they could have used it to make a more noble looking human being. Instead you're forced to sit through tons of typical, uninspired dialogue while his frog face covers the screen and stares at you with brain dead eyes.

The presentation of the game feels like some poorly funded, indie game. The enviroments lack any thought or originality. The capital city looks small and unintimidating, like a cheap TV show set made out of foam. FF12's enviroments are more awe inspiring and grand than Oblivion's. It really looks like the developers just kept on hitting the random button on a terrain editor, unlike FF12's intricately designed cities and dungeons which are full of originality, granduer and detail.

Don't get me started on the stiff, robot facial expressions of Oblivion's characters. Even Patrick Stewart's voice loses it's effect when it's coming from a bad CGI actor. Keanu Reeves would win an Oscar in Oblivion's universe.

I stopped playing after the Emperor's poorly directed death scene. The game has you starting in a series of caves... which leads to a sewer... Wow, how exciting. From all the reviews and fanboy ejaculations, the rest of the game doesn't seem anymore interesting. Just a bunch of NPCs wandering about speaking with the same voices, muttering the same lines of dialogue over and over again, and then collecting and killing stuff with no big goal, memorable characters or sweeping narrative to keep you interested. Oh well, this saves me from going out and buying my brother-in-law a Christmas present...

Substance D

11-27-2006, 10:04 AM

Yes, that's about as convincing as the pitiful "dog ate my homework, sir". :whatever:

Let's see how.

[/font]Funny how you chose to ignore OTHER definitions of the word "leader" that would compromise your argument about Auron being one:

2. somebody or something in lead
3. somebody in charge of others
[font=&quot]

The man was tired and being a guardian who has already undertaken the pilgrimage before, he knew there wouldn't be another opportunity to rest for some time. That's why other guardians don't argue with him. Because he knew well and good what he was talking about. He was like the wise counselor of the group.

He was questioning their opinions. How doe sthat make him a leader?

So he's a bit bossy. But being bossy doesn't really make you a leader.

He's giving sound advice.

Sounds more like someone who SERVES instead of LEADING.

He was voicing his role as a guardian.

So you're implying just because someone is a leader, they can't be told what to do? I mean, it's indisputable that Cloud was the leader in FFVII, but throughout the game we see him being told by other people where to go and what to do. Communication works both ways and it doesn't impact the role of leadership.

Auron wasn't the leader. The storyline of the game and his role in it makes it blatantly clear.

You moron, most of the information about the history between Jecht, Braska and Auron is contained in the Jecht Spheres that trigger cutscenes whenever you find one. "Supplemental literature"? Did FFX have a novel? Or a comic book? Or any other source for information that wasn't contained in the game?

Tidus being raised by Auron wasn't mentioned in the game (at least as far as I knew). What the game DOES mention is that Tidus knew of Auron as his father's friend and that is enough to sum up the basis of their relationship.

Unfortunately for you, you didn't realize the shortcomings in the storytelling of FFXII for being a plot-driven narrative ONLY instead of being BOTH plot-driven and character driven like it's predecessors and other prestigious RPGs like the Chrono series and Xenogears.

The review states that FFXII has "a good story (as a game) overall" and by all accounts I agree. But it doesn't compare FFXII's storyline to other Final Fantasies or even that of other games that have a much better story. My criticism was aimed at showing how high did the storyline of FFXII measure up against other similarly acclaimed games in it's class and the result is not good enough.

Really? Can you name some of them please, ones who have appeared in a Final Fantasy or any other RPG?

Yes, I remember the Phon coast revelation quite vividly. It doesn't explain many things about the bad blood between Balthier and Cid. Like, we know Balthier ultimately cared for his father and this is evident when he walks up to him in his final moments. It was Cid's obsession with Nethicite that turned Balthier away. But why does Cid resent Balthier? Why didn't Gabranth or Bergan recognize him if he was a judge, or even as the son of the very own Doctor Cid? It's a glaring plothole just to get the "shock effect" of the Phon Coast revalation.

Symbolism can be applied anywhere and is never a compelling argument, chucky. "The sky represents freedom"? LOL, I can say the same for the vast and empty green Ozmone plains and you can't prove it wrong.

Yes, sufficient enough to the point that you STILL haven't answered a lot of my questions.

[/b]Yes, I know full and well that Basch fled to Dalmasca after his homeland was conquered and that Gabranth supports the empire. But Gabranth sees Basch as more than just a traitor to the empire. There is a more personal rivalry between them.
[b]

Pity that you fail to read the very following words "In truth"after that paragraph that state the diplomat Vayne was only a cover for his true intentions.

Sounds pretty evil to me.

That's exactly what I said in my last post about Cid and Vayne's intentions, jackass:

It is quite apparent now that reading comprehension is not one of your strong points.

Sounds a lot like the usual power-hungry wannabe dictator.

Where are you pulling that from? Vayne abruptly refuses to seek an open diplomatic solution with the Dalmascans and the resistance, is spite of the insistence by his younger brother. You're talking about Vayne not being completely evil yet his plan to completely eliminate his enemies even when he was offerred a chance to peacefully negotiate with them is A-OK in your book? Bloody hypocrite.

And to eliminate both Rozarrian and Dalmascan empires so that HE gets total control of Ivalice. Yup, stereotypical dictator indeed.

Uhh...what?

Vayne is not a black and white character like Seymour. Seymour is clearly
insane. Vayne is making difficult choices, and assuming the role of dictator for the good of his people, and quite possibly the good of all Ivalice.

Pity such so-called "character-depth" is portrayed so poorly. And what have here? More expressions of Substance D's consistent insecurity by taking YET ANOTHER jab at Gears? Oh dear...

Umm, the Occuria wanted to PUNISH Vayne and the Empire for defying them by allying themselves with the "heretic" Venat. How were the Occuria USING Vayne again, chummy?

Actually, both Cid and Vayne have always been on the same wavelength about freeing mankind from the control of the Occuria by duplicating the sources of their power with manufacted Nethicite. And they were both being guided by Venat all along. "Twist n turn" my ass.

Oh and why exactly was Venat helping Vayne and Cid? What did he hope to gain out of it?

Actually I am. This little discourse so far has proven at least that much.

OK, so in your case, they can also unenlightened idiots who don't know what they are they are talking about since you "rarely play videogames at all".

You're in no position to tell anyone to shut up, chucky, because had you known when to open and not to open your useless trap, you wouldn't have been so ticked off by my criticism of FFXII inspite of claiming that you "couldn't care less" of what I think. *sigh* Sometimes even a good ol' shot to ze foot is not enough to snap some people out of their idiocy.

Auron fits one of the definitions of a leader, so he could be described as a leader. I never called him the leader of the group, I just described him as having those qualities. And you questioned why I called him arrogant. The quotes I provided show that he is. He failed to protect his former companions. Then, soon after he joins Yuna, he's dishing out orders, expecting people to follow him. He also blatantly criticizes Lulu and Wakka's abilities as gaurdians. All this after he himself was unable to save Braska and Jecht.

And you get on to me about mispelling Venat (I had the subtitles turned off in the game, BTW. The voice recording quality is rather subpar due to compression) when you mispell Braska after copying and pasting an article with his name littered throughout.

You say I have poor reading comprehension, when you say you completely agree with a review that shares none of your points. Then you get on my case about using the words "leader" and "evolution" incorrectly, when various definitions of the word fit exactly what I'm getting across.

Sometimes even a good ol' shot to ze foot is not enough to snap some people out of their idiocy.

Tell me about it. :whatever: Try shooting yourself in the head and rid us of your presence.

Oh yeah, the "dog ate my homework" thing? That's better than being a sneaky, lying, plagiarizing rat.

Substance D

11-27-2006, 10:12 AM

In truth, Vayne, who is arguably
the main villain, wishes to be the new Dynast King to force his
ideals of peace at the cost of those in his way, setting the
events that framed Basch.

Oh yeah, it doesn't say he's evil. It says he's the villian. There's a difference. They're saying he's the main antagonist, not that he's evil. Other countries consider Americans as villians. Would you label yourself as evil?

And did you miss the scene where he decides he will do all the evil that is necessary to protect his kingdom? The speech about his hands already being bloodied? He's protecting Larza from having to do evil things in the future.

How many times do I have to say this? PAY ATTENTION.

Fenrir

11-27-2006, 06:15 PM

Auron fits one of the definitions of a leader, so he could be described as a leader. I never called him the leader of the group, I just described him as having those qualities.

And didn't I concede that yes, he is a bit bossy but that doesn't necessarily make him a leader? If only you pull yourself out of such a constant state of brainfarting, you might be actually able to read what I say every now and then.

And you questioned why I called him arrogant. The quotes I provided show that he is. He failed to protect his former companions.

How can he "fail to protect his companions" when it was their decision to sacrifice themselves? BrasKa knew how the summoner's journey would end and Jecht himself volunteered to be turned into Sin. In fact, Auron was martyred by Yunalesca in trying to find a way that wouldn't neccesitate the sacrifice of his companions.

Again, way to make a complete ass out of yourself. Keep posting and you'll be making it all the more easier for me. :up:

Then, soon after he joins Yuna, he's dishing out orders, expecting people to follow him.

People follow him because of his legendary status, not because he's bossy. You see in the game that Auron is quite well known and people don't object to his decision because he was the only one in the party who knew more than everyone combined. When you have someone amongst you who knows more than you do, you follow him, even if you are the leader and he isn't. Being a leader doesn't necessarily mean being a thickhead for demanding to be the only guy who can give orders. But alas, such "philosophical" talk may be too much for your peanut brain to handle.

He also blatantly criticizes Lulu and Wakka's abilities as gaurdians.

And it was deserving criticism. That is why they fail to answer his question. It was a perfectly valid question. Both of them were too absorbed with Blitzball and it was partly because of their negligence as well that Yuna was kidnapped. In fact, Auron taking the lead amongst Yuna's guardians shows that he was the only one who knew full and well what it means to be a guardian.

All this after he himself was unable to save Braska and Jecht.

Yeah, save them from a fate they chose for themselves. Only morons like you would even contemplate holding a person responsible for the choices of others.

And you get on to me about mispelling Venat (I had the subtitles turned off in the game, BTW. The voice recording quality is rather subpar due to compression) when you mispell Braska after copying and pasting an article with his name littered throughout.

It was a typo, dumbass, not a deliberate misspelling blunder like yours. Can't you even figure that out after seeing I used "Brasca" only once but "Braska" several other times?

You moron, most of the information about the history between Jecht, Braska and Auron is contained in the Jecht Spheres that trigger cutscenes whenever you find one. "Supplemental literature"?

He refused to marry the daughter of a high priest and was cast out. Braska too was deemed an outcast for marrying a "heathen" Al Bhed woman who bore him a child that was half al-Bhed. Since both men shared a common ground, Braska enlisted Auron to become his guardian.

He didn't "raise" Tidus, you nitwit. Tidus knew of him as his father's friend. Since both were Braska's guardians.

Not only do you have piss-poor reading comprehension, but seem to be severely sight challenged too. Add to that your apparent intellectual handicap and I might as well argue with an autistic.

You say I have poor reading comprehension, when you say you completely agree with a review that shares none of your points.

Jesus...read you incorrigible bane of humanity you, READ!

The review states that FFXII has "a good story (as a game) overall" and by all accounts I agree. But it doesn't compare FFXII's storyline to other Final Fantasies or even that of other games that have a much better story. My criticism was aimed at showing how high did the storyline of FFXII measure up against other similarly acclaimed games in it's class and the result is not good enough.

How does it feel to consistently proving yourself as an illiterate jackass?

Tell me about it. :whatever: Try shooting yourself in the head and rid us of your presence.

Yes, and eventually the planet will eventually be overtaken by turd-of-the-genepool tools like you. Mankind is doomed...

Oh yeah, the "dog ate my homework" thing? That's better than being a sneaky, lying, plagiarizing rat.

Yeah, like Wikipedia is some kind of academic or corporate institution that owns the information I'm taking from them for it to be some kind of plagiarism. :rolleyes:

It's a ****ing public encyclopedia, you retard. Wikipedia doesn't own the info they get. They don't pay anyone to get it. And I can copy the info from their site and they can't do a damn thing to me about it. Please, go to ****ing college so that at least you will learn the practical and legal definition of the word "plagiarism" and it's proper application. Parents really shouldn't let half-wit high-schoolers go online anymore. It'll really solve the problem of overwhelming stupidity on the internet.

Fenrir

11-27-2006, 06:20 PM

Oh yeah, it doesn't say he's evil. It says he's the villian. There's a difference. They're saying he's the main antagonist, not that he's evil. Other countries consider Americans as villians. Would you label yourself as evil?

Depends upon what criteria they consider Americans as evil.

If they say that on the basis of our ****ed up foreign policy, then yes, we are evil.

If they say that because of our giving the proverbial middle finger to the entire world and botch the quagmire that is Iraq, then yes, we are evil.

If they say that on the basis of the American administration's innumerable blunders since the Cold War, then yes, we are evil.

If they say that because of our increasingly corrupted corporate culture (Enron, WorldCom) that the government does nothing to straighten out, then yes, we are evil.

If they say that on the basis of our bull**** propaganda about freeing the oppressed from the cruelties of dictators and theocracies in Iran and Iraq yet turning a blind eye to the massacres in African nations (Rwanda, Darfur), then yes, we are evil.

If they say that on the basis of our hypocritical banter of spreading democracy with a hidden agenda of conquering foreign oil fields while curbing civil liberties of our citizens, then yes, we are evil.

You are called evil or otherwise based on your own actions. It's not just a difference of perspective. Anyone naive enough to still be absorbed in such delusions of self-importance desperately needs a heavy dose of reality.

And did you miss the scene where he decides he will do all the evil that is necessary to protect his kingdom?

Protect his kingdom from WHAT? Who was threatening him? He was protecting his throne like any diseased, power hungry tyrant. He didn't give a **** about his people. Only the domain of his rule. That's why he was pressing towards an unnecessary war with other kingdoms even after being offered a chance for peaceful negotiations.

Besides, he poisoned his own father and framed the Senate for his murder. To the purpose of what? So that House Solidor will be the only autocratic power in all of Archadia? Dastardly needs under the pretext of noble intentions. Only a fool would fall for such base trickery.

The speech about his hands already being bloodied? He's protecting Larza from having to do evil things in the future.

Give me a break. Violent suppression of resistance always only leads to more bloodshed. It's a very simple fact that has been supported by history countless number of times. And any ruler worth his salt knows that you can never really eliminate all of your enemies forever. Such ruthlessness only begets even more foes. And had Vayne succeeded, his actions would have only forced Larsa to take the same course as his brother if we wanted to stay on the throne.

Vayne appears to be sincere and noble, but in truth, he's nothing more than a stereotypical dictator who forces his own laws upon his subjects and engages in murderous massacres all under some ignorant delusion of having "the best intentions". The road to hell is clear indeed.

How many times do I have to say this? PAY ATTENTION.

I would if only you had a ****ing clue as to what you're talking about.

Substance D

11-27-2006, 09:11 PM

*Yawn* Calm down, you're losing what's left of your composure. You're argument is starting to lose all substance, and instead half of it is made up of petty insults. Pretty lame.

Look, I thought your points were pretty valid from the beginning. It seemed you knew your stuff, and formed a reasonable opinion. Then you started copying articles from Wikipedia without giving a source, masking your lack of FF lore and hoping that no one would care enough to check. This after claiming to be a fan of the series. Then you insult my spelling, when you can't even spell Braska right. That's worse than my error, because I was going off of spoken dialogue. Venat is never mentioned on any website or literature connected to the game. You spelled Braska wrong after being surrounded by the name countless times. Talk about brainfarts...

Your views on the storyline would have been valid, but you show lack of comprehension on the game's most clearly defined plot developments. The characters clearly explain what is happening, yet it slips your grasp. Poor reading comprehension indeed. And that's not even including the Gamespot article you so heavily endorsed, yet in the end had nothing to do with any problems you brought up in your argument.

It's clear you're losing ground, Fenrir. You can't even make a decent argument anymore. Half of your posts consist of insults and finger pointing. No one can take you seriously anymore. Who knows how much of your past arguments have been copied and pasted. You're a joke. For someone quick to jump on other's flaws and inconsistencies, you sure do make alot of mistakes and misintrepretations yourself. You're a hypocrite.

It's no use arguing with you anymore. Yes, I know you'll take that as a sign of weakness and probably won't let me hear the end of it. The truth is, you're just not worth it. If there's anything else you fail to grasp about the game's storyline, try playing again and actually paying attention or you can check your precious Wikipedia. This time though, read past the first paragraph.

Ravensford

11-29-2006, 01:06 PM

Substance D

11-29-2006, 01:34 PM

So.... without inciting a riot, I'd like to change the subject if I may. Does anyone know how to consistantly chain the Mist Quickenings (limit-breaks)?

I've got 2 characters with one level each and can't seem to chain them to save my life (literally, read Game Over here...) I didn't see any FAQ's on it anywhere and can't check any other websites due to the ol' company firewall, so any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

It's best to get all three quickenings for each character as soon as possible. First off, it triples your mp, second it raises the chances of a quickening appearing when you hit R2. When you have more quickenings, getting above 10 combos won't be a problem. Other than that, you just need quick reflexes.

Ravensford

11-29-2006, 02:20 PM

When you hit R2? I thought you just selected Mist in the menu. Did I miss something in the instructions?

MrHateYourself

11-29-2006, 02:26 PM

I ended up buying Oblivion last night along with my new computer. Half an hour into the game confirmed all of my doubts. It sucks.

WOE IS THE WORLD! It fails to deliver everything we knew and all that we didn't WITHIN A HALF HOUR! Tutorials, learning curve, intro, all be damned! You should be overwhelmed right at the start, or else it's untrue!

I believe it was you complaining about GOW on this thread? Notice how GOW delivered....EVERYTHING that it had in the first half hour, and the remainder was bland repitition? That's why Oblivion and other complex games don't throw everything at you at the beginning. It's NOT the same 3 hours in as it is half an hour in. I've only logged a few hours on Oblivion and if you're playing the same game after a few hours that were were after 30 minutes, the problem is yours. Not that you even bothered to give the game time to get rolling.

The presentation of the game feels like some poorly funded, indie game.

The sound of disdain suggests that you probably don't play many low budget games, so do you really have a good grounding for this comparison?

FF12's enviroments are more awe inspiring and grand than Oblivion's.

Complete with painfully small zones and 20 seconds or so of load time every few minutes. OPEN SPACES BE DAMNED!

It really looks like the developers just kept on hitting the random button on a terrain editor,

Kinda like how the REAL WORLD is pretty random? Hills and rivers everywhere, not a clearly cut and paced adventure!

unlike FF12's intricately designed cities and dungeons which are full of originality, granduer and detail.

I'm only as far as Vossler's death in FF12, and the dungeons are certainly not full of any of those things. Pretty bland, angular, and straightforeward so far.

I stopped playing after the Emperor's poorly directed death scene. The game has you starting in a series of caves... which leads to a sewer... Wow, how exciting.

Yeah, doesn't compare with FF12's grand experience of starting....in a desert...and leading into a sewer....and then into a mine. Wooo! EXCITEMENT! After that, it's a series of circular halls in an airship, THEN BACK TO ANOTHER DESERT! Yes, yes, ohgodyes, it's going to make me soil my pants...

Except after all of that, FF keeps on you a strict narrative and guide; whereas Oblivion lets you make it your own. YOU decide how much story you want, and gives more flexibility in your role. In FF, you revolve around the story. In Oblivion, the story revolves around you. Or doesn't. It's up to you.

Substance D

11-29-2006, 04:10 PM

When you hit R2? I thought you just selected Mist in the menu. Did I miss something in the instructions?

When you hit Mist, it goes into a cutscene of them doing their attack. You'll see your character's names in the bottom right corner, above a timer. Everytime you hit R2, buttons will randomly appear next to their names. Hit one of the buttons before the timer runs out, and that will initiate another Quickening. You can repeat that over and over again until you miss the timer.

Substance D

11-29-2006, 04:20 PM

WOE IS THE WORLD! It fails to deliver everything we knew and all that we didn't WITHIN A HALF HOUR! Tutorials, learning curve, intro, all be damned! You should be overwhelmed right at the start, or else it's untrue!

I believe it was you complaining about GOW on this thread? Notice how GOW delivered....EVERYTHING that it had in the first half hour, and the remainder was bland repitition? That's why Oblivion and other complex games don't throw everything at you at the beginning. It's NOT the same 3 hours in as it is half an hour in. I've only logged a few hours on Oblivion and if you're playing the same game after a few hours that were were after 30 minutes, the problem is yours. Not that you even bothered to give the game time to get rolling.

The sound of disdain suggests that you probably don't play many low budget games, so do you really have a good grounding for this comparison?

Complete with painfully small zones and 20 seconds or so of load time every few minutes. OPEN SPACES BE DAMNED!

Kinda like how the REAL WORLD is pretty random? Hills and rivers everywhere, not a clearly cut and paced adventure!

I'm only as far as Vossler's death in FF12, and the dungeons are certainly not full of any of those things. Pretty bland, angular, and straightforeward so far.

Yeah, doesn't compare with FF12's grand experience of starting....in a desert...and leading into a sewer....and then into a mine. Wooo! EXCITEMENT! After that, it's a series of circular halls in an airship, THEN BACK TO ANOTHER DESERT! Yes, yes, ohgodyes, it's going to make me soil my pants...

Except after all of that, FF keeps on you a strict narrative and guide; whereas Oblivion lets you make it your own. YOU decide how much story you want, and gives more flexibility in your role. In FF, you revolve around the story. In Oblivion, the story revolves around you. Or doesn't. It's up to you.

FF12 is on an inferior system, though. And the game isn't THAT linear. At least not as linear as previous FFs, and that's saying alot. My main problem with Oblivion is that it lacks originality of any kind. Also, freedom at the expense of a strong storyline just isn't my thing. I prefer a balance between the two. I see Bioware games as having that perfect balance.
I play Final Fantasy for the stories, characters and unique worlds. IMO, that's worth the sacrifice in freedom. Both Square and Bioware have shown growth. FF12 got rid of the random battles, opened up the world a little bit, and had a sophisticated script. Bioware's games on the other hand are becoming more cinematic and visually spectacular.

Victor Von Doom

11-29-2006, 08:16 PM

So just out of curiosity. I'm pretty deep into the story line and Vaan doesn't really feel like the main character. It's all about Ashe and Balthier to some extent.

Mr. Credible

11-30-2006, 07:38 AM

So.... without inciting a riot, I'd like to change the subject if I may. Does anyone know how to consistantly chain the Mist Quickenings (limit-breaks)?

I've got 2 characters with one level each and can't seem to chain them to save my life (literally, read Game Over here...) I didn't see any FAQ's on it anywhere and can't check any other websites due to the ol' company firewall, so any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

they hit at random, so you'll need a lot more quickenings to get bigger chains (i just beat one of the later bosses with a 23 hit chain+the black hole finisher)

limits/quickenings should be one of your first priorities in the game, because they are some of the most powerful attacks.

Ravensford

12-01-2006, 03:51 PM

Substance D

12-01-2006, 04:00 PM

Yes! Thank you for the R2 tip! It's much better now. Is it easier to hit with just one person or with more? Can I just hold down the R2 button and the buttons for all of my chars to hit it as it comes up?

More characters means more combinations. I don't think it matters which one goes, but the more characters in your party and the more Quickenings they have, the better chance you have of initiating a combo. I don't know how it works, but if you manage to pull off certain combos with all the characters, then it initiates a powerful attack at the end which hits multiple enemies. I think the most basic one occurs if you manage to make all three characters pull off a Quickening. Don't quote me on that.

I don't know about your second question. You might try it out and get back to us.

Fenrir

12-01-2006, 10:11 PM

Look, I thought your points were pretty valid from the beginning. It seemed you knew your stuff, and formed a reasonable opinion. Then you started copying articles from Wikipedia without giving a source, masking your lack of FF lore and hoping that no one would care enough to check.

Am I supposed to be writing a college thesis here that I have to list my sources and references? Or am I using any unlicensed resource for personal monetary benefit? The reason I use Wikipedia is to double check my facts. Plus, there are a number of instances in this argument where I clearly stated when and where said evens occur in the games themselves, something that Wiki doesn't do. One needs a critical organ called a brain to process all this "complex" information and your failure to do so

This after claiming to be a fan of the series.

I am. There's nothing you can say or do to prove otherwise.

Then you insult my spelling, when you can't even spell Braska right. That's worse than my error, because I was going off of spoken dialogue. Venat is never mentioned on any website or literature connected to the game. You spelled Braska wrong after being surrounded by the name countless times. Talk about brainfarts...

I can't even keep track of how many times you've recycled the "reading comprehension" argument against me, yet have clearly shown a distinct inability to grasp the obvious. I'll just reply to this tangent of yours with a previous quote:

It was a typo, dumbass, not a deliberate misspelling blunder like yours. Can't you even figure that out after seeing I used "Brasca" only once but "Braska" several other times?

You moron, most of the information about the history between Jecht, Braska and Auron is contained in the Jecht Spheres that trigger cutscenes whenever you find one. "Supplemental literature"?

He refused to marry the daughter of a high priest and was cast out. Braska too was deemed an outcast for marrying a "heathen" Al Bhed woman who bore him a child that was half al-Bhed. Since both men shared a common ground, Braska enlisted Auron to become his guardian.

He didn't "raise" Tidus, you nitwit. Tidus knew of him as his father's friend. Since both were Braska's guardians.

:whatever:

Your views on the storyline would have been valid, but you show lack of comprehension on the game's most clearly defined plot developments.

Yet it is you who has been consistently sidestepping the points that have been raised thus far. Irony is a ***** indeed.

The characters clearly explain what is happening, yet it slips your grasp. Poor reading comprehension indeed.

I never said that the characters don't explain what is happening, chimpy. I said what is there is not enough in terms of character development and plot diversity.

"Poor reading comprehension indeed."

L-A-W-L.

And that's not even including the Gamespot article you so heavily endorsed, yet in the end had nothing to do with any problems you brought up in your argument.

Isn't it funny that even the most insulting verbal provocations aren't enough to coax you to properly read my posts:

Jesus...read you incorrigible bane of humanity you, READ!

The review states that FFXII has "a good story (as a game) overall" and by all accounts I agree. But it doesn't compare FFXII's storyline to other Final Fantasies or even that of other games that have a much better story. My criticism was aimed at showing how high did the storyline of FFXII measure up against other similarly acclaimed games in it's class and the result is not good enough.

It's clear you're losing ground, Fenrir. You can't even make a decent argument anymore.

Says the one who resorts to childish and pitiful tactics by running away cyring to the mods because he's getting slapped around in an argument. Your failure in sufficiently responding to two posts of mine makes it abundantly clear who's "losing ground" and "can't make a decent argument anymore". Bet that shot to the foot feels mighty good right about now, doesn't it chuck?

Half of your posts consist of insults and finger pointing. No one can take you seriously anymore. Who knows how much of your past arguments have been copied and pasted. You're a joke. For someone quick to jump on other's flaws and inconsistencies, you sure do make alot of mistakes and misintrepretations yourself. You're a hypocrite.

Ah, so you jump on me for insulting and finger-pointing, yet in the very same paragraph, have no qualms with calling me "a joke" and a "hypocrite". A paradox unto thyself art thou of epic proportions.

It's no use arguing with you anymore. Yes, I know you'll take that as a sign of weakness and probably won't let me hear the end of it.

That's because it is. No way around it, junior.

The truth is, you're just not worth it.

Pity you didn't realize it sooner when you got your panties in a bunch over my criticism of the game in the first place.

"fenrir said something bad about FF12?! OMG WTF!!1!!!"
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/mark_phaser/vandamme_yell.gif

This time though, read past the first paragraph.

I suggest you do the same when going through my own posts.

Avalanche

12-21-2006, 10:33 AM

It's too bad that you don't have the option to....I dunno....NOT read the thread. :whatever:

Why would you come in this thread if you don't want spoilers, anyway? That is the most retarded thing EVER. "Guys, let's talk about Final Fantasy 12, BUT....we can't say ANYTHING ABOUT IT."

Consider this thread as a door. If you open it and find your parents having sex, whose fault is it? YOURS, for opening the door. At least THIS door is clearly labeled "Parents Having Sex".
Some of us want to discuss the game without having the entire plot spoiled for us. I've had to scroll down a lot of stuff as there was no warning as to the spoilers that were on the way, but I haven't been able to avoid learning things I didn't want to.

sandwraith

12-21-2006, 10:42 AM

Finally got my copy yesterday. Spent a good deal playing it, now I'm stuck on a mini-quest of sort's helping some guy's wife get medicine for a sick patient. Just where the Hell are the "Broken Sands"? I risked life and limb just looking for it and still ain't sure where it is

Matt

12-21-2006, 11:35 AM

First, the information he posted about Auron isn't even in the game. It's from supplemental literature. This quote is the only refernce from the game Wikipedia had:

I'm not getting involved in this, but just for the record, even if it is from Wikipedia and supplemental literature, it is probably true. In Japan developers will release countless magazines, books, etc on the game and its characters that don't make it into the game. They are straight from the developers mouthes.

Fenrir

12-22-2006, 03:38 AM

Check out Gamespot's RPG of the Year (http://www.gamespot.com/special_features/bestof2006/platform/index.html?page=6). Yes, Substance D, you may slice your throat now. :D:up:

Fenrir

12-22-2006, 04:12 AM

I'm not getting involved in this, but just for the record, even if it is from Wikipedia and supplemental literature, it is probably true. In Japan developers will release countless magazines, books, etc on the game and its characters that don't make it into the game. They are straight from the developers mouthes.

Whatever the case, that particular information that Substance D was talking about as being lifted from "supplemental literature" is a B.S claim. Not only is it in the game, but I had also cited when exactly is said information revealed in the game.

Avalanche

12-22-2006, 02:13 PM

Check out Gamespot's RPG of the Year (http://www.gamespot.com/special_features/bestof2006/platform/index.html?page=6). Yes, Substance D, you may slice your throat now. :D:up:
How childish.

Fenrir

12-22-2006, 09:28 PM

How childish.

How incredibly blind and retarded of you to miss those smileys, son. I take it they always mean something when followed by words, don't they?

Again, grow a thicker skin, you whining crybaby. :down:

Havok83

12-22-2006, 10:39 PM

I havent been able to play this nearly as much as I should have. I just beat the first Judge last week and on headed on my way out west

Avalanche

12-23-2006, 04:59 AM

How incredibly blind and retarded of you to miss those smileys, son. I take it they always mean something when followed by words, don't they?

Again, grow a thicker skin, you whining crybaby. :down:
Again, you profess to be such a reasoned debator, and post something like that.

You're fast becoming the new Horrorfan. :whatever:

Fenrir

12-23-2006, 05:23 AM

Again, you profess to be such a reasoned debator, and post something like that.

You're fast becoming the new Horrorfan. :whatever:

It was a referential response to Substance D crying his heart out over how much Oblivion "sucked" compared to FFXII. And it's not meant to be taken seriously, even though it's a classic rub to the face. And the debate was over long ago, chucky. Getting your hypersensitive panties in a bunch because of such a harmless little comment. Get off my back already.

Ravensford

12-26-2006, 12:19 PM

So...

I've completed the storyline up to Mt Bur-Omisace. I've finished all of the available hunts, but I'm trying to clear up everything else I can do. Can anyone offer some suggestions? I can't get onto Gamefaqs due to the company firewall here. Any help would be great!

Thanks!

chosen1

12-26-2006, 12:24 PM

Is there an easier way to make money in this game.:huh:

Zenien

12-26-2006, 02:09 PM

Money is very constrained for me at this point in the game. Maybe doing the hunts? I haven't touched those.

Ravensford

12-26-2006, 02:59 PM

Is there an easier way to make money in this game.:huh:

The two best money makers are hunts and kill lots of stuff. Best deal is to chain the skeletons in the Lhuzu Mines. The bone chips add up quickly and make for good cash. 99 Bone Fragments sell for 19107 gil

After that, farm Demonsbane swords in Tomb of Raithwall 3000gil each and if you chain the tallows, you can get broadaxes.

If you're farther along than that, check out Arthellinus's Power Walkthrough on GameFaqs.

Now, who's got some suggestions for me? :cwink:

Havok83

12-26-2006, 05:12 PM

Money is very easy to make in this game. Your nto gonna get much gil from kills but thats not how its supposed to be. The majority of the money you make will be from selling loot. Just set at least one of your active characters gambits to steal and that should do the trick. Youd be amazed at how easliy your loots start to build up. Dump them out every few hours and you should rack some cash pretty quickly

Zenien

12-27-2006, 03:51 AM

Havok83

04-02-2007, 02:46 PM

double post

Havok83

04-02-2007, 02:47 PM

After 5 months and 115 clocked in game hours, I finally beat FFXII. I didnt even finish everything and decided to stop doing the sidequests bc this game had taken up too much of my time and I wanted to move onto other things. It was a great game but I preferred the story in FFX. I liked that XII had one that was simpler and easier to follow but I liked the connection to the characters in FFX better though. XII however owned when it came to gameplay. I loved the battle system and hope all future games have a variation of it bc its hard to go back to the old style

Zenien

04-04-2007, 04:50 PM

FFXII is really weird for me. It's like when I play it I have fun, but the second I put it down I don't have any compulsion to pick it up again... :ninja:

But I mean I have a lot of fun when I'm playing it so what gives? :huh: Maybe this ties into my general apathy with MMORPGs and how similar FFXII feels to one.

I need to like restart the game and stick with it this time. It's absurd that I have so much fun playing the game but still haven't gotten past Raithwalls Tomb because I only play it once in a blue moon. :o

A.J.Rimmer(BSC)

04-05-2007, 05:18 AM

So making a Gambit that is:

When: Enemy < %50 health Action: Steal

or whatever would bea good idea then. :o

I'm pretty much grinding until I'm good enough to bea the first monstertrap in Raithwalls Tomb.

Does Chaining give you any more advantages aside from better item drops?

Still digging the game so far.

Also I was wondering what use do the Earth Water Wind etc stones have? I have tons.

I reach the fifties chaining level when travelling west, and as well as superior quality and quantity of items received, buffs and health bonuses can be attained. I also got Shell and Protect for all the current party automatically sometime in the 40's.

I've just finished the Henne Mines, level 25 for all my party.
Belias is useless, and I rarely rely on Gambits.

Hunts are awesome side quests, but don't try beating the White Mousse unless your WAY over level 22. I got my ass beat.

Everyone needs to chill out. Some of the arguing here is unessecary, and pointless.

Havok83

04-05-2007, 01:36 PM

Everyone needs to chill out. Some of the arguing here is unessecary, and pointless.
you do realize that up until this week, no one had posted in this thread for about 4 months?

A.J.Rimmer(BSC)

04-10-2007, 06:40 AM

Ha! No. My bad.

A.J.Rimmer(BSC)

04-11-2007, 08:44 AM

Finally beat the White Mousse, my nemesis for nigh on a month now.
I'd advise people not to rely on Quickenings for long drawn out battles.

Use them as finishers, never at the beginning like I used to.

Venom Jr.

04-11-2007, 12:41 PM

Havok83

04-11-2007, 01:10 PM

the White Mousse kicked my azz when I first tried to go after him. That was one of the hardest battles until I got leveled up

A.J.Rimmer(BSC)

04-12-2007, 10:09 AM

I was level 27 and I still struggled. I wished I'd realised i coulda used beserk on him. Bummer.

Havok83

04-12-2007, 05:54 PM

i love finnail fantasy 12 it has been a while since they finnaily got a good story. I think number 7 was actually the last time they did have a good story.
but the graphics are great on this game and the chracters r great too 10 tumbs up 4 this game! :)
I like that this story was less convoluted and that I could actually follow it easily. I loved X but all that story with dreams and stuff was confusing. I do prefer Xs overall though bc I preferred its emphasis on the characters and the story was character driven whereas XII was plot driven. The politcs and stuff was great for an overall theme but the characters didnt seem as important. I hope Im making sense here

Arkady Rossovich

04-12-2007, 09:00 PM

I also thought the game was great.The fighting engine is revoultionary,i could imagine its going to become the standard.But i have a question,im at the end of the game.I actually beat it,and im doing extra things.So when i check the bestiary,there is still a small chunk of space.

Like there are areas i have not been to yet,but i cant think of anywhere i have not been.There is a secret area at the Pharos Lighthouse,The Lushu Mines and a area in The Feywood that leads to a hidden part of the mines near Jahra.But its a dead end,and i cant seem to find any path that leads there.I would not like anyone to tell me,as ill find it myself.

uchiha_itachi

04-16-2007, 04:20 AM

there was hardly any character development whcih sucked.. and hardly any twists which also sucked

A.J.Rimmer(BSC)

04-16-2007, 05:30 AM

The story is lacking, and the cutscenes are pretty dire, but this may be the only FF game that (whilst never reaching the heights of the others) doesn't really need it IMO. The gameplay is really addictive. I love the loot and hunt system. Awesome.

uchiha_itachi

04-16-2007, 05:40 AM

yeh i must admit i do liek the loot and definitly the hunt system. but seriously vaan is probly the weakest main character ever, his voice is always mono tone and we dnt really find out anything about him

A.J.Rimmer(BSC)

04-16-2007, 05:47 AM

lol, very true, but same can be said of all the peripheral characters as well.

uchiha_itachi

04-16-2007, 06:01 AM

A.J.Rimmer(BSC)

04-16-2007, 11:27 AM

Maybe an empty canvas onto which the player can project themselves upon?

Naaa just a poor character. :up:

Havok83

04-16-2007, 02:30 PM

i find all of the other characters alright, even tho yeah you dont learn alot about them but they are still far more interesting then vaan. they all have there interesting personalitys, but vaan just dosent have one
I thought Vaan had a personality. He came off as an annoying prick in the beginning but that quickly faded away.

But Vaan wasnt the main character. I dont believe this one really had one. I thought Ashe was more of a main character than he was and I can see how others can make an argument for the others

uchiha_itachi

04-16-2007, 02:49 PM

well i class him as the main one because you walked around towns with him. but seriously hes as dull as his voice was, i mean why on earth did they hire tht man do do his voice it was terrible lol

A.J.Rimmer(BSC)

04-17-2007, 04:07 AM

I'm with Uchiha, Vaan was technically the main character, although all the characters recieved equal if not better focus.

In a way it reminds me of FF6. I really hated the main 'theif' character, but really loved the tanks/damage dealers Sabin and Locke (i think). They were far superior to the main character, both in style and story.

Zenien

04-17-2007, 04:57 AM

Terra was the main character in 6, jerks! :cmad:

A.J.Rimmer(BSC)

04-18-2007, 04:34 AM

Speedball

04-20-2007, 01:45 AM

Woof steady on! It was only me, so thats jerk singular.

Secondly, I only got throught half the game and if I recall the player's character was the theif. But you can't deny Sabin was a legend, as was Cyan.

Also, in a weird sexist way, I can't accept female leads in videogames were there are also male central characters.

For example, Lara Croft I can understand, but for me Jill or Claire from RE are simple placeholders for Leon or Chris. I'm the same with comics, I don't rate WW or Storm, strong, popular female icons, I just don't care.

I don't mean to be a gimp, I'm just being honest.
I don't think I've ever talked to anyone who said Chris was the main character of Resident Evil. I and my friends have always viewed it as Jill's story. I see Resident Evil II and 4 to be Leon's, Code Veronica to be Claire's, and Resident Evil 5 will be Chris', probably.

I haven't played the game in a awhile. Tonight was the first time I've played in a LONG time because I finally got my own PS2.
I'm stuck at Mattheus. Vaan is lvl 27, while everyone else is 23. Is that too low?

Havok83

04-20-2007, 03:14 AM

I don't think I've ever talked to anyone who said Chris was the main character of Resident Evil. I and my friends have always viewed it as Jill's story. I see Resident Evil II and 4 to be Leon's, Code Veronica to be Claire's, and Resident Evil 5 will be Chris', probably.

well Chris is one of the main characters in RE1. He probably meant that he should have been reused as the main character in RE 3, in place of Jill. He and Jill got equal time until that game

Havok83

04-20-2007, 03:16 AM

I haven't played the game in a awhile. Tonight was the first time I've played in a LONG time because I finally got my own PS2.
I'm stuck at Mattheus. Vaan is lvl 27, while everyone else is 23. Is that too low?I cant remember where I was at but if you are really having major troubles defeating him, then yes you are too low. Everything in the main story should be no problem to defeat as long as you are leveling correctly. I say go spend some time just fighting other enemies to raise your level up a bit and then go back to this boss

A.J.Rimmer(BSC)

04-20-2007, 08:00 AM

well Chris is one of the main characters in RE1. He probably meant that he should have been reused as the main character in RE 3, in place of Jill. He and Jill got equal time until that game

:up:

I love levelling, its better than sex. Were do you reckon are the best places to level up? Im caught between most enemies being extra easy and the minority being incredibly hard.

Im lv.34, and Im in the Mosphoran Highwastes for the first time.

Out of interests, how is everyone's team set up? Who is what class for you? What kind of weapons to they have?

Me-

Vaan- Swords Tank
Basch- Swords Tank
Balthier - Guns Ranged/Support
Ashe- Bow White Mag
Penelo- Poles Green/Black Mag
Fran- Samuria Swords misc

Havok83

04-20-2007, 03:25 PM

:up:

I love levelling, its better than sex. Were do you reckon are the best places to level up? Im caught between most enemies being extra easy and the minority being incredibly hard.

Im lv.34, and Im in the Mosphoran Highwastes for the first time.

Out of interests, how is everyone's team set up? Who is what class for you? What kind of weapons to they have?

Me-

Vaan- Swords Tank
Basch- Swords Tank
Balthier - Guns Ranged/Support
Ashe- Bow White Mag
Penelo- Poles Green/Black Mag
Fran- Samuria Swords misc
I think this game is setup up so that as you progress the stories, the areas you come across are great for levelling. Since you are at the Mosphoran Highwastes and at lv 34, I suggest leveling there. The enemies should be around lv 31-32ish. If they are too difficult, then you can go to The Estersand from the South Bank village, if you've unlocked the ferry.

As far as my team, I have

Vaan - Thief; Sword Tank at first but once I got the Zodiac Spear, he was using that
Basch - Sword Tank
Balthier- Gun Ranged
Ashe - Sword; White/Green Mage
Penelo - Dagger/Pole; Time Mage
Fran - Bow; Black Mage

My main team consisted of Vaan, Bash and Ashe for the most part. Towards the end when I got the Fohamut, I swapped Balthier in for Basch

A.J.Rimmer(BSC)

04-23-2007, 06:53 AM

I opened the wrong chest at the wrong time, so no Zodiak Spear for me.

:down:

Havok83

04-23-2007, 02:23 PM

I opened the wrong chest at the wrong time, so no Zodiak Spear for me.

:down:
I found out after I had opened a chest, but I was still fairly early into the game to start over. This weapon rocks. It pretty much saved my team quite a few times

A.J.Rimmer(BSC)

04-24-2007, 05:48 AM

Thanks for rubbing it in.

I couldn't be arsed to start again. Apparently the Tournesol and Excalibur are pretty good, thats what I'm hoping anyway.

Speedball

04-24-2007, 12:01 PM

I think this game is setup up so that as you progress the stories, the areas you come across are great for levelling. Since you are at the Mosphoran Highwastes and at lv 34, I suggest leveling there. The enemies should be around lv 31-32ish. If they are too difficult, then you can go to The Estersand from the South Bank village, if you've unlocked the ferry.

As far as my team, I have

Vaan - Thief; Sword Tank at first but once I got the Zodiac Spear, he was using that
Basch - Sword Tank
Balthier- Gun Ranged
Ashe - Sword; White/Green Mage
Penelo - Dagger/Pole; Time Mage
Fran - Bow; Black Mage

My main team consisted of Vaan, Bash and Ashe for the most part. Towards the end when I got the Fohamut, I swapped Balthier in for Basch

My Team is:
Vaan - Sword/Magic Tank
Basch - Hammer Tank, I wanna get to two handed swords for him.
Balthier- Crossbow/gun
Ashe- Pole/Mage
Penelo - Ninja blade/dagger/summoner
Fran - Bow/White Mage

My team usually consist of Vaan, Fran, and Basch.

Venom Jr.

09-01-2007, 04:03 AM

My Team is:
Vaan - Sword/Magic Tank
Basch - Hammer Tank, I wanna get to two handed swords for him.
Balthier- Crossbow/gun
Ashe- Pole/Mage
Penelo - Ninja blade/dagger/summoner
Fran - Bow/White Mage

My team usually consist of Vaan, Fran, and Basch.
No Healer? Or is that what your using your mage for?

Havok83

09-01-2007, 04:54 AM

No Healer? Or is that what your using your mage for?
He has Fran as White Mage which equals healer

Venom Jr.

09-01-2007, 05:22 AM

^ Okay just checking. I was wondering how you would go through the game without a healer.

DIRECTOR

09-15-2010, 11:51 AM

After finishing FFXIII, I'm now for the first time playing FFXII. Right now I'm leveling up Vaan with Dustia, I'm at lvl 25 in only 3 hrs. of gameplay.

Is there anything else I need to know while I play this game. I read about getting that Spear that is hard to get in the game, so I'm taking note on that, but is there more secretes where I can level up and gil farm? Seems like with Dustia, I can do both!

DIRECTOR

10-11-2010, 07:52 PM

i beat the game :rolleyes:

Soapy

10-11-2010, 08:00 PM

What did you think?

DIRECTOR

10-13-2010, 07:37 AM

Havok83

10-13-2010, 08:26 AM

It was okay. I mean, the story was very complex and confusing. It was too literary and the characters weren't fully developed. Was Vaan the main character or was it Ashe? And the bosses were easy........... maybe it's because I was exp farming with Dustia earlier in the game so Leveled up to 50 when I actually started the story :).

One other gripe were the cut scenes, most of the cut scenes weren't fully rendered, alot of the cutscenes were regular PS2 graphics. I remember FFX has awesome rendered cutscenes, but 12 didn't have them.

Overall, it's not better than FFX, and it's not better than FF13, but I do like FF12 had like puzzles and mysteries and dungeon type levels.
I would say Ashe was more the main character. She was the one most integral to the plot and the primary hero, so to speak. Vaan only seemed important early on but he takes a backseat once the party rounds itself out. One could make arguments for it being Basche as well but Ashe stands out the most to me

I dont remember much about the cutscenes and the ratio of rendered vs in game models but it could be due to the fact that XII had ALOT of content. That may have been a developmental choice to keep it all on one disc. Still the visuals were beautiful for its time. It looked alot better than FFX which came before it bc the team had more experience working with the PS2 by that point

Gotta disagree on FFXIII being better than it. Of course this part is pure opinion. Graphics aside, the only thing XIII had better was more developed characters. Everything else about XII was better IMO. The combat system, gambits, exploration/freedom, towns, NPC interactions, leveling, structure, layout, sidequests, story. Even though the characters didnt recieve as much characterization, I found them to be alot more intriguing than the XIII bunch. Ashe, Balthier and Basche are among my favorites in the series. XIII seemed very empty in comparison to XII. XIII had alot of flash and flare but little substance. It excelled in its visuals but thats solely due to the hardware. Ignoring that, it doesnt hold up quite as well

MoonChild

02-07-2011, 07:46 PM

Yes, in narrative terms, I would say Ashe is the main character, but Basche is quite significant too, and what's interesting is how he was considered in pre-production to be the major character but they didn't think the older character would appeal to the younger demographic so went with Vaan.

Daredevil

03-12-2011, 12:41 PM

I consider Basch the main character. He just has that heroic appeal and he is the first playable character who you are introduced to in the story. Basch is just awesome. Not to mention that Basch and Gabranth's story arcs are easily the best in the game.

Also, lol at the person who claimed that FFX and FFXIII (the two biggest heaps of trash in the series) are better than this.