Why Selina Kyle will be in The Dark Knight

[kpjoon]

I truly believe that our next female lead will be none other than Selina Kyle/Catwoman.

What makes me believe this?
Well...

Remember that little cartoon show The Batman? For those of you that don't know, Two Face, Ras Al Ghul, and The Scarecrow could not be used because of that whole bat-embargo nonsense.
Season four is airing right now and you can read all episode descriptions for the season. Notice anything? The Joker is missing in action. He was a villain who appeared in the previous seasons a lot but now that The Dark Knight well under way, he can't be used in the cartoon show.

Not only that, but also notice how Selina Kyle/Catwoman is missing from Season 4 as well. Sure she didn't have much screen time at all in the show but this time she's absent as well as the Joker.

This leads me to believe that Selina Kyle will be in TDK.

[Boom]

:dry:

I honestly doubt The Dark Knight is correlated with The Batman, and vice versa.

[batboy99]

close we already got a bunch of catwoman threads

[blksuperman2]

LOL, Fanboy Logic.

[kpjoon]

I'm not a catwoman fanboy :(
I don't know jack about the character.

[chintai80]

i think you may be onto something here, KP.

The Bat-embargo is not a myth. :ninja:

[DV8]

wtf is the bat-embargo?

[DV8]

anyway . . . I'm not ruling anything out; Nolan said that there would be plenty of surprises in the next (2) film(s)

[CConn]

wtf is the bat-embargo?That characters can't appear in two seperate shows at once. I've never heard that it applied to movies until now, though.

[Poetic Chaos]

Same reason why Bruce Wayne can't appear in Smallville.

[NinjaTurtleFan]

I just want Selina in "The Dark Knight" if Penguin, Joker, and Catwoman were all in this it'd feel too overloaded.

Selina should appear as Selina Kyle, Bruce's love interest. Then by movie 3 or 4 she turns into Catwoman. She of course be a cat burgular in this movie and then she turns into the femme fatale we all know and love.

[Crooklyn]

:dry:

I honestly doubt The Dark Knight is correlated with The Batman, and vice versa.
Actually, he does have a point. An embargo does exist. Ever since BB came out, it's applied to all Batman-related shows. Even in JLU, Batman nor Joker were allowed to have significant screentime. It's also why we haven't seen Scarecrow, Ra's, or Harvey in The Batman.

[chintai80]

That characters can't appear in two seperate shows at once. I've never heard that it applied to movies until now, though.

I heard the embargo was the reason why the scarecrow doesn't appear on The Batman cartoon.

[Saint]

:dry:

I honestly doubt The Dark Knight is correlated with The Batman, and vice versa.
Actually, it's true that certain characters have been barred from television because of the movies (thus the absence of most bat-villains from JL/U).

That said, Catwoman's absense is probably not indicative of her being in the film (though I hope she is).

[MulligaN Stew]

:dry:

I honestly doubt The Dark Knight is correlated with The Batman, and vice versa.

Agreed. Nolan's continuously mentioned that he wants his vision to be unique. Why would he put Kyle in the 2nd film of his franchise and draw obvious comparisons? It's a longshot at best imo.

[Apollo]

they should at least introduce her charactor, maybe as a cameo, but hold her for the 3rd one, by that time catwoman with halle berry will hopefully be out of everyones minds

[Apollo]

for the costume they should make it like the one in the comics, the one from hush is good, i like the cat goggles, better then halle berrys costume

[raybia]

I truly believe that our next female lead will be none other than Selina Kyle/Catwoman.

What makes me believe this?
Well...

Remember that little cartoon show The Batman? For those of you that don't know, Two Face, Ras Al Ghul, and The Scarecrow could not be used because of that whole bat-embargo nonsense.
Season four is airing right now and you can read all episode descriptions for the season. Notice anything? The Joker is missing in action. He was a villain who appeared in the previous seasons a lot but now that The Dark Knight well under way, he can't be used in the cartoon show.

Not only that, but also notice how Selina Kyle/Catwoman is missing from Season 4 as well. Sure she didn't have much screen time at all in the show but this time she's absent as well as the Joker.

This leads me to believe that Selina Kyle will be in TDK.

Yeah, but we haven't seen Egghead or Batmite either so...wait...Oh NO!:wow:

[Crooklyn]

Agreed. Nolan's continuously mentioned that he wants his vision to be unique. Why would he put Kyle in the 2nd film of his franchise and draw obvious comparisons? It's a longshot at best imo.
Hardly a longshot. Selina is one of, if not, the most central female figure in the Batman mythos. She's not along the lines of Egghead people. :dry:

And what are these "obvious comparisons"? You said it yourself, Nolan wants to make a unique vision. That ALONE would erase any sort of "obvious comparisons" to previous takes. It's his job to make sure we see something different.

[Postman]

I just don't see the point of bringing in catwoman. Michelle Pfeiffer already did a great job she is catwoman. No reason to do the character in the new movies. Plus I don't really see her working in the Nolan Batman universe.

[Crooklyn]

I just don't see the point of bringing in catwoman. Michelle Pfeiffer already did a great job she is catwoman.
So...because it's been done well before, we should just stop there? In that case, all these movies were wrong:

Terminator 2
Godfather 2
Post-Connery Bond films
Spider-Man 2
X-Men 2

Are you getting my point here? It's a ludicrous notion that we should just stop where we feel it's been done best. The bar is meant to be risen. Not leveled.

No reason to do the character in the new movies.
Why? She's an important character. Has and always will be.

Plus I don't really see her working in the Nolan Batman universe.
I'd love to see a valid argument for this. I really would. What is so damn unique and exquisite about Nolan's vision, where a cat burglar can't possibly exist in his "universe"?

[raybia]

So...because it's been done well before, we should just stop there? In that case, all these movies were wrong:

Terminator 2
Godfather 2
Post-Connery Bond films
Spider-Man 2
X-Men 2

Are you getting my point here? It's a ludicrous notion that we should just stop where we feel it's been done best. The bar is meant to be risen. Not leveled.


Why? She's an important character. Has and always will be.


I'd love to see a valid argument for this. I really would. What is so damn unique and exquisite about Nolan's vision, where a cat burglar can't possibly exist in his "universe"?

If she's portrayed as a cat burglar rather than a Batvillian and tone down the Cat motif and paraphernalia then I'm all for it. In fact, I don't even want her to refer to herself as Catwoman. Let the media dub her that.

I have said this before but I think that the dynamics of Bruce and Selina's initial meeting and relationship should be model after Hitchcock's "To Catch a Thief."

For those of you not familar with it here are a few plot summaries.

American expatriate John Robie living in high style on the Riviera is a retired cat burglar. He must find out who a copy cat is to keep a new wave of jewel thefts from being pinned on him. High on list of prime victims is Jessie Stevens, in Europe to help daughter Frances find a suitable husband. Lloyds of London insurance agent is using a thief to catch a thief. Take an especially close look at scene where Robie gets Jessie's attention, dropping an expensive casino chip down decolletage of French roulette player.

Summary written by Dale O'Connor {daleoc@interaccess.com}

A series of ingenious jewelry robberies takes place on the French Riviera. The police suspect John Robbie - an expert thief who was known as "The Cat" before he retired from crime. Robbie enlists the help of an insurance man to guess where the real thief will strike next. He befriends wealthy widow Jessie Stevens and her attractive daughter Frances.

Summary written by Col Needham {col@imdb.com}

John Robie is a one-time cat burglar, now reformed and living a blameless life in a plush villa. When a fresh set of burglaries rocks the Riviera all bearing the hallmark of Robie's own robberies, he is the natural suspect. Robie sets out to catch the new burglar himself, mainly to prove his innocence. He is aided by an American heiress, who initially is convinced that he is actually guilty. The title of the movie is derived from the proverb "Set a thief to catch a thief"

http://www.leninimports.com/hitchcock_to_catch_a_thief.jpg

http://www.gonemovies.com/WWW/XsFilms/SnelPlaatjes/ActKellyCatchAThief.jpg


http://www.filmsite.org/toca.html

"Filmed in widescreen VistaVision, its leisurely tone is decidedly European, with pictorial exotic settings (i.e., The Hotel Carlton on the Riviera) and fashions, snatches of French, witty (but risque and naughty) double-entendres-laden dialogue, and an elegantly-orchestrated romance."

That I believe categories how Bruce and Selina romance should be portrayed, "elegantly-orchestrated" with, "at least their scenes, fitting the visual description above.

Selina, should be introduced as a rich Gotham socialite recently returning to Gotham from abroad, who meets Bruce at a function at Wayne Manor, uninvited of course.

[Crooklyn]

I'll agree in that I don't want her to be just another batvillain. I liked her more as an anti-hero anyway. She was always the sneaky time, at times jumping on the line between good & bad. That's something we haven't seen on-screen, so already Nolan has something to go on.

Don't get what you mean by "toning" down the cat motif though. From what I've seen, she only wears a cat-mask, and occasionally meows. Nothing too excessive though.

:huh:

[raybia]

I'll agree in that I don't want her to be just another batvillain. I liked her more as an anti-hero anyway. She was always the sneaky time, at times jumping on the line between good & bad. That's something we haven't seen on-screen, so already Nolan has something to go on.

Don't get what you mean by "toning" down the cat motif though. From what I've seen, she only wears a cat-mask, and occasionally meows. Nothing too excessive though.

:huh:


I guess I'm referring more to how Catwoman was portrayed in Batman Returns. I think I'm the only one who thinks that Pfeirer's performance, while not bad at all, was highly overated. I just didn't like how the character was written.

I do agree that Selina should be ambigous as far as good guy/bad guy. I think Selina should be portrayed as not a bad person and actually a solid moral code, more solid than maybe she even realizes, but she is out first and foremost herself. But she would never want to hurt anyone...seriously that is.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I guess I'm referring more to how Catwoman was portrayed in Batman Returns. I think I'm the only one who thinks that Pfeirer's performance, while not bad at all, was highly overated. I just didn't like how the character was written.

I do agree that Selina should be ambigous as far as good guy/bad guy. I think Selina should be portrayed as not a bad person and actually a solid moral code, more solid than maybe she even realizes, but she is out first and foremost herself. But she would never want to hurt anyone...seriously that is.I love you for writing this! You are not the only one, I hated how the character was written.

[raybia]

I love you for writing this! You are not the only one, I hated how the character was written.


Alright! I'm not the only one. :yay: Lets start our own thread!! :woot:

Selina, should be a high society lady, but with a dark side. She really is the mirror image of Bruce Wayne except she robs the same rich and powerful corrupt leaders that Bruce tries to bring to justice.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Alright! I'm not the only one. :yay: Lets start our own thread!! :woot:hmmm, that would be a interesting idea.

[raybia]

hmmm, that would be a interesting idea.


By the way, Brad Pitt is an medicore actor...except for his performance in Se7en!

[I SEE SPIDEY]

By the way, Brad Pitt is an medicore actor...except for his performance in Se7en!lol, hey we aren't going to agree on everything thats for sure.

The animated series mixed with some comicbook interpetations is the best way to go. Although I don't know if she should be a former hooker, but she should come from the streets. I hated that she was secertary in Batman Returns.

[Postman]

So...because it's been done well before, we should just stop there? In that case, all these movies were wrong:

Terminator 2
Godfather 2
Post-Connery Bond films
Spider-Man 2
X-Men 2

Are you getting my point here? It's a ludicrous notion that we should just stop where we feel it's been done best. The bar is meant to be risen. Not leveled.


Why? She's an important character. Has and always will be.


I'd love to see a valid argument for this. I really would. What is so damn unique and exquisite about Nolan's vision, where a cat burglar can't possibly exist in his "universe"?

a. no i'm not getting the point, those are sequals...its completely different I understand what you are saying, but this is a completely different situation. A better example would be someone playing a character that a previous actor had done well in. examples Willy Wonka should have never been done Gene Wilder is willy wonka, etc etc. Bond is the exception to the rule I'll give you that.

b. There are many other important characters that deserve screen time.

c. Because....she's a cat burglar named cat woman its silly. Plus after the Begins plot to destroy Gotham, Batman tracking down a cat burglar seems kind of...I duon't know...anti-climactic.

[Postman]

By the way, Brad Pitt is an medicore actor...except for his performance in Se7en!

What about Fight Club and 12 Monkeys? nah Pitt is a good actor if its a good movie he acts well, if its a bad one he's mediocre.

[Crooklyn]

a. no i'm not getting the point, those are sequals...its completely different I understand what you are saying, but this is a completely different situation. A better example would be someone playing a character that a previous actor had done well in. examples Willy Wonka should have never been done Gene Wilder is willy wonka, etc etc. Bond is the exception to the rule I'll give you that.
Wonka is a single-story. Bond is a franchise. That is why we get more, because there are many stories to tell within the universe. And this is why Batman will keep producing more stories, it is a franchise.


b. There are many other important characters that deserve screen time.
Never said she would be a focal point. But she is one of the top "villains" in Batman's rogues gallery. Asides from Joker, Harvey, Gordon, and Bruce, I'd be hard-pressed to find many more than are a bigger priority than Selina.

c. Because....she's a cat burglar named cat woman its silly.
And we have a billionaire playboy going out at night wearing a cape. This "silly" argument simply doesn't work when your protagonist is dressed up as a bat. There's nothing unrealistic about Catwoman. She's a cat-burglar. It's not an elaborate costume, aside from the mask that takes on a cat motif. But that's it.

Plus after the Begins plot to destroy Gotham, Batman tracking down a cat burglar seems kind of...I duon't know...anti-climactic.
Yes, because bringing in Catwoman MUST mean that she is involved in an anti-climactic foot chase because she would obviously be the main villain. :dry:

[Postman]

Never said she would be a focal point. But she is one of the top "villains" in Batman's rogues gallery. Asides from Joker, Harvey, Gordon, and Bruce, I'd be hard-pressed to find many more than are a bigger priority than Selina.


And we have a billionaire playboy going out at night wearing a cape. This "silly" argument simply doesn't work when your protagonist is dressed up as a bat. There's nothing unrealistic about Catwoman. She's a cat-burglar. It's not an elaborate costume, aside from the mask that takes on a cat motif. But that's it.


Yes, because bringing in Catwoman MUST mean that she is involved in an anti-climactic foot chase because she would obviously be the main villain. :dry:

I wasn't referring to the way she dresses I was trying to get at 1. the name combined with her "occupation" 2. The fact that she's a cat burglar doesn't pose much of a threat to Gotham and/or Batman I just see no use for her. Compared to Ra's and Scarecrow who planned to totally destroy it/hold the city ransom. And scarecrow was not the main villain.

[raybia]

I wasn't referring to the way she dresses I was trying to get at 1. the name combined with her "occupation" 2. The fact that she's a cat burglar doesn't pose much of a threat to Gotham and/or Batman I just see no use for her. Compared to Ra's and Scarecrow who planned to totally destroy it/hold the city ransom. And scarecrow was not the main villain.

I think her use would be as a romantic interest for Bruce and a temptation for Batman. Its kind of like an detective who knows he got a job to do but has gotten involved with the suspect. However Selina/Catwomen should NEVER be used as the Main villian or as a villian period. They may even be forced to work together, In fact, it could be similar in some aspects to Indiana Jones and Marion's relationship in Raiders.

[StorminNorman]

I wasn't referring to the way she dresses I was trying to get at 1. the name combined with her "occupation" 2. The fact that she's a cat burglar doesn't pose much of a threat to Gotham and/or Batman I just see no use for her. Compared to Ra's and Scarecrow who planned to totally destroy it/hold the city ransom. And scarecrow was not the main villain.

? Catwoman' isn't a true villian. Her brilliance is that she always does whats best for herself - if that means siding with Batman, she does it. If that means stealing from various Gothamites - she does it. She shouldn't be a big threat to the safety of Gotham.

[raybia]

What about Fight Club and 12 Monkeys? nah Pitt is a good actor if its a good movie he acts well, if its a bad one he's mediocre.


I didn't see 12 Monkeys, but I forgot about Fight Club. Ok, maybe I don't know what the hell I'm talking about...certaining Brad Pitt, but my views about how to introduce Selina Kyle are right on!:cwink:

[raybia]

? Catwoman' isn't a true villian. Her brilliance is that she always does whats best for herself - if that means siding with Batman, she does it. If that means stealing from various Gothamites - she does it. She shouldn't be a big threat to the safety of Gotham.


Exactly. If she poses any kind of threat, its to Batman's hardcore persona.

[blksuperman2]

Well there goes your Bat-Embargo theory. The Joker was on 'The Batman' this morning.

[Alpha and Omega]

Why Selina Kyle will be in TDK?: Kpjoon decrees it.

Why Selina Kyle will NOT be in TDK?: Nolan's making it.

Wishful thinking is one thing, but we have a story that definitely surrounds Batman, the Joker, Harvey Dent, Det.(maybe Captain)Gordon, Lucious Fox, and the ol' butler, so no, I don't think that time would permit anything more than a cameo from another villain.[besides several mob bosses who might appear in the flick]

If there is a cameo, my bet wouldn't be on SELINA KYLE!!! Are you crazy?! Nolan is doing the trilogy with continuity. If he was going to include another female lead (who was along the fence), it would probaby be Ra's Al Ghul's daughter. I doubt this will happen. He'll probably venture away from BB as much as possible. Now, with that said, we might receive a brief look at Mr. Cobblepot, Roman Sionis, Edward Nygma, but this is extremely unlikely. If there's a Selina Kyle in the story, just wait for an update from Jett or any of the other sources who will bend over backwards to tell you.

Thanks.:yay:

[Kevin Roegele]

The simple fact that there has just been a Catwoman film - and it's widely considered a disaster - suggests to me Warner Bros will stear clear of Catwoman for the time being.

[agentdawes]

She's overexposed from BR,Catwoman and that WB flop on television about Catwoman's daughter Birds of Prey.
So far its only some forum fans that like Selina back but most Batdiehards I talked to dont want her.

[Crooklyn]

Saying Catwoman is overexposed is like complaining Alfred, Gordon, and Robin are shown too much in stories. Selina is a major player in the mythos, whether you like it or not.

And who are these bat die-hards, Agent....Dawes. :ninja:

[agentdawes]

Im speaking of those outside the internet world. I think Batman internet fans are not the only fans of Batman so their views matter too.

[7Hells]

Because we all know it matters what your two friends think compared to majority of Batman fans voicing their opinions over the internet.

It doesnt matter how much the Bat community wants Selina. Nolan will do what he wants.
But there is no way die hard Batman fans want the Dawes character to stay Bruce Waynes love interest throughout all three movies unless they just dont care if he even has a specific love interest. She has served her purpose and "must be allowed to die".

I dont care, Bruce is a jigilo in public and out.
His heart should stay with Gotham and his "women" should come and go.