Contest of Marvels II Thread 1

[JewishHobbit]

Trevor Fitzroy
Black Knight (Dane)
Iron Clad
Black Panther
Thunderbird (Exiles)

[Ahura Mazda]

Durok
Black Knight (Dane)
Iron Clad
Black Panther
Radioactive Man - back and forth on this one

[Iceman]

Durok - great defence by kytrigger though - Ahura's characters are all uber powerful
Black Knight - location gives him the edge
Iron Clad - doesn't need to last too long before the rays come out
Black Panther - Harlekin's comeback begins :woot: - this actually made me want to go read some BP
Radioactive Man - location favours Radioactive Man this time :(

[hippy fascist]

Results So Far:
Durok The Demolisher currently beating Trevor Fitzroy 10-7
Black Knight-Dane currently beating Captain Britain-Kelsey 16-1
Iron Clad currently beating Half-Life 11-6
Black Panther currently beating Magik 13-4
Radioactive Man currently beating Thunderbird-Exiles 11-6

[Phaedrus45]

Final Results:

Durok The Demolisher beat Trevor Fitzroy 10-7
Black Knight-Dane beat Captain Britain-Kelsey 16-1
Iron Clad beat Half-Life 11-6
Black Panther beat Magik 13-4
Radioactive Man beat Thunderbird-Exiles 11-6

[Ahura Mazda]

Good match Kytigger, that was a very tough debate. I got lucky.

[hippy fascist]

Radioactive Man beat Thunderbird-Exiles 11-6

Good debate weigeabo, if it wasn't for the people I think it would have been tied again. I look forward to our next match :yay:

[wiegeabo]

T-Bird/R-Man was a hell of a match. :up:

For me, it's on par with my Strong Guy/Constrictor match. And the only reason I'd say that was a harder match is because it did tie a second time and went to Spart's thread.

[Harlekin]

Nicely debated Wieg. I'm going to make sure T'Challa goes far, especially since I liked Illyana and would've gladly seen her go to the next round. The Panther is just that more of a badass though. :D

[Phaedrus45]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/JewishHobbit/CoM.jpg

BRACKET 1,

Match 11:

Black Tom Cassidy (KYTRIGGER) bio (http://www.mutanthigh.com/blacktom.html)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_blacktom.gif (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=blacktom.gif)

vs.

Nocturne - Exiles (HELLSTORMER) bio (http://www.mutanthigh.com/alternatex/exiles/nocturne.html)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_nocturne.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=nocturne.jpg)

Match 12:

Agatha Harkness (HIPPY FASCIST) bio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agatha_Harkness)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_agatha.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=agatha.jpg)

vs.

Thor Girl (WOLVERINE25TH) bio (http://www.marvel.com/universe/Thor_Girl)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_Thor_Girl_Head.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=Thor_Girl_Head.jpg)

[Phaedrus45]

BRACKET 2,

Match 11:

Spider - Exiles (HELLSTORMER) bio (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?t=31053)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_spider-man.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=spider-man.jpg)

vs.

Black Cat (HELLSTORMER) bio (http://www.spiderfan.org/characters/black_cat.html)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_Black-Cat.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=Black-Cat.jpg)

Match 12:

Captain Britain - Brian Braddock (DARTHPHERE) bio (http://www.mutanthigh.com/capbrit.html)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_Captain-Britain.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=Captain-Britain.jpg)

vs.

Falcon & Redwing (DARKHELLRIDER) bio (http://www.marvel.com/universe/Falcon_(Sam_Wilson))

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_falcon.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=falcon.jpg)

[Phaedrus45]

Location:

BADLANDS

This mystic realm was fashioned by the Demon-Bear as an idealized version of the American southwest.

(This location was not originally intended for Week 6. It was suppose to be The Cage; but, I discovered little can be found about the location, other than it took away all superpowers when running. So, I didn't think it fair to take away everyone's powers. As I don't have any matches this week, I came up with the first substitute location that I came to. Location was changed, and just figure you are out in the American Southwest, idealized version. No inhabitants, except the normal animals and bugs that you'd expect to find. If your character can find out any more information on this area that may be of help, then it's fair game.)

[kytrigger]

Good match Kytigger, that was a very tough debate. I got lucky.

Good match to you too. You picked a good character and had an even better debate.

[hippy fascist]

Agatha Harkness Vs Thor Girl

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/70/Agathaharkness.jpg

Ok so, tracking down accurate descriptions of agatha's power was difficult but I've finally found one and I was pleasently surprised :word:


Known Powers:
Sorcery: The ability to tap this universe's infinite store of ambient magical energy and manipulate these to a variety of effects. A skill derived from three major sources: personal powers of the mind/soul/body, powers gained by tapping the universe's ambient magical energy and employing it for specific effects and finally, powers gained through the tapping of extra-dimensional energy by invoking entities or objects of power existing in mystical dimensions tangential to her own. The latter means of power is usually gained by the recitation of incantations.


Thor Girl is no stronger than any normal asgardian. She lost her cosmic power meaning that when agatha starts sending TIDAL WAVES of magical energy in her direction at the very least it's going to take her out of commision


Some of these effects include forming magical energy bolts with a high degree of potency and control. Erect energy shields or screens with a high degree of imperviousness to both physical and magical damage, create illusions, teleportation across the face of the Earth or into a mystical dimension, thoughtcasting over short or vast distances in a manner virtually identical with telepathy, levitation and astral projection.

We are talking about someone who can wield magic on a par with the likes of doctor strange. Magical shields, teleportation, bolts of raw energy... thor girl is certainly outclassed without her previous powers!


Agatha has a vast knowledge of sorcerous spells and incantations invoking names and aspects of various extra-dimensional objects and beings of power. Through these incantations the mage is able to call upon these extra-dimensional power sources for very specific effects without taxing her personal abilities.

As in rather than reciting the incantation for a shield in between attacks, it will be running in the background as she unleashes hell upon thor girl. To take on agatha is to take on an army of spirits and demonic entities.

Thor Girl used to be a seriously powerful character, but after the power downgrade she just can't compete at this level.

WINNER: AGATHA HARKNESS!

[Darthphere]

Location:

BADLANDS

This mystic realm was fashioned by the Demon-Bear as an idealized version of the American southwest.

(This location was not originally intended for Week 6. It was suppose to be The Cage; but, I discovered little can be found about the location, other than it took away all superpowers when running. So, I didn't think it fair to take away everyone's powers. As I don't have any matches this week, I came up with the first substitute location that I came to. Location was changed, and just figure you are out in the American Southwest, idealized version. No inhabitants, except the normal animals and bugs that you'd expect to find. If your character can find out any more information on this area that may be of help, then it's fair game.)


That couldve been interesting.

[Phaedrus45]

Just for clarification, Agatha's cat would not be joining her in the fight. Only Agatha would be transported to the Badlands.

No pussy allowed in the Badlands!!!

[hippy fascist]

Just for clarification, Agatha's cat would not be joining her in the fight. Only Agatha would be transported to the Badlands.

No pussy allowed in the Badlands!!!

Either way, agatha's power levels are off the charts, and it doesn't prevent her from summoning spirits/demons to aid her, thor girl's toast.

[Hellstormer]

BRACKET 2,

Match 11:

Spider - Exiles (HELLSTORMER) bio (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?t=31053)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_spider-man.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=spider-man.jpg)

vs.

Black Cat (HELLSTORMER) bio (http://www.spiderfan.org/characters/black_cat.html)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_Black-Cat.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=Black-Cat.jpg)

Yea vote for Spider!


Seriously do I have to even debate they're my characters I tihnk I should be allowed to tall everyone to vote for Spider and expect them to do it....

Fine, Black Cat's rally outmatched her, this is homicidal Peter Parker with a symbiote costume meaning the only thing that could really hurt him is sonic waves which, last time I checked, Black Cat doesn't carry. Neither would have information about one another but still this Peter Parker is a sidistic bastard that'll go for the easy kill the minute the match starts. He'll run in there find her slit her throat and walk away 'nuff said.

Winner=Spider

[Hellstormer]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/JewishHobbit/CoM.jpg

BRACKET 1,

Match 11:

Black Tom Cassidy (KYTRIGGER) bio (http://www.mutanthigh.com/blacktom.html)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_blacktom.gif (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=blacktom.gif)

vs.

Nocturne - Exiles (HELLSTORMER) bio (http://www.mutanthigh.com/alternatex/exiles/nocturne.html)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_nocturne.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=nocturne.jpg)

This is gonna be a fun battle. Ok let's lay down the powers first. We have Nocturne who has, according to Wiki, "Ability to possess others, can fire "Hex Bolts," enhanced agility, low level telepathy". Now what exactly are hex bolts are like pure energy or like fire or...what. I don't kow maybe someone could shed some light on that?

Now Black Tom on the other hand has, Wiki, "Generates destructive concussive force through a wooden medium
(formerly) Control and manipulation of all manner of plant life".

Now this particular Tom I believe is Pre-M which means he's gonna be a tough cookie with all those plants around him. Nocturne was pre-Crystal place so she won't have info beyond her common knowledge but wait when she came to 616 uuniverse she infilitrated Black Tom's team so she knows the extent of his powers and understand that she cannot posess him, but he'll know just as much about her. As soon as she comes into the ring she'll have to isolate him from plants and nail him with hex bolts, which I assume have some kind've fire to them, if she can get him far enough away and hit him with those hex bolts, keep her distance and use her agility she can easily beat him but it'll take time and she might not come out in the best of shape.

[JewishHobbit]

No pussy allowed in the Badlands!!!

??????????????http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_Black-Cat.jpg??????????????

[Hellstormer]

??????????????http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_Black-Cat.jpg??????????????
Yea I think she should be automatically disqualified and Spider should advance.

[hippy fascist]

Now what exactly are hex bolts are like pure energy or like fire or...what. I don't kow maybe someone could shed some light on that?

scroll down and read the first paragraph on powers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarlet_Witch

[kytrigger]

BRACKET 1,

Match 11:

Black Tom Cassidy (KYTRIGGER) bio (http://www.mutanthigh.com/blacktom.html)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_blacktom.gif (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=blacktom.gif)

vs.

Nocturne - Exiles (HELLSTORMER) bio (http://www.mutanthigh.com/alternatex/exiles/nocturne.html)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_nocturne.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=nocturne.jpg)


This is a good match up, but one tht Black Tom should definately win.

First, let's go over Black Tom's powers. This is the newer version of him right before HOM and he can control all plant life. While the old Tom (pictured above) was awesome simply for the fact that he carried a shillelagh, the newer version is much more powerful and even more dangerous because he's completely psychotic. Of course I would be too if I looked like this:
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l52/rbouras/blackTomCassidy.png

Anyway, on with the debate. To get prep time out of the way, I believe both characters have no real advantage here. Both were on the saem Brotherhood team for a while and both know each other's powers pretty well, so I would call that a toss up.

Now going into the battle, Black Tom knows that Nocturne has great agility and that her teleporting would make her very hard to hit her. That's why he would make multiple copies of himself with teh surrounding trees. Nocturne could definately dodge one Black Tom for a while, but it's much harder to dodge several Black Tom's, especially when each is just as free thinking as the original. They aren't mindless zombies attacking, they can each create their own independent plan to take her down.

With that being said, it is also almost completely impossible for her to actually harm Black Tom as well. Even is she did get lucky and get in a good strike, he can instantly reform himslef from the plant life. And remember, plant life doesn't just mean trees either. He can control and use the trees, bushes, and even underground roots which are pretty much everywhere.

Basically, Nocturne is surrounded, and while I am sure she could dodge all of his attacks for a little bit, she would eventually get hit, and then she's screwed. Black tom also has the ability to "suck" the life energy out of someone, and once he hit her, he would instantly start draining her of her energy. While she might be able to get away once, she would definately be weakened and he could easily get to her again.

Whiel her hex bolts would help her dodge for a while, I don't see anyway, they would actually help her defeat Black Tom since he would just reform again if anythign happened to him.

Also, while she does have some psychic control powers, Black Tom has proven incredibly hard to control. She tried to control him once and it took all of her energy to get him to just release his grip. And while she was doing that, he was being attacked by others AND being sucked into a black hole which gave her a big advantage.

Overall, Nocturne is a good fighter and could definately dodge Black Tom's attacks for longer than most, butthere is no real way she could hurt him. Eventually she would get hit by one of his multiple angle attacks/clones and she wold be done for.

Winner- Black Tom

[kytrigger]

Now this particular Tom I believe is Pre-M which means he's gonna be a tough cookie with all those plants around him. Nocturne was pre-Crystal place so she won't have info beyond her common knowledge but wait when she came to 616 uuniverse she infilitrated Black Tom's team so she knows the extent of his powers and understand that she cannot posess him, but he'll know just as much about her. As soon as she comes into the ring she'll have to isolate him from plants and nail him with hex bolts, which I assume have some kind've fire to them, if she can get him far enough away and hit him with those hex bolts, keep her distance and use her agility she can easily beat him but it'll take time and she might not come out in the best of shape.
Rebuttal

While it would defiantely benefit Nocturne to keep Black Tom away form all plants, that is almost impossible to do. The plants don't have to be visible to be controlled, so he can control the roots in the ground just as well.

As for the hex bolts, I'm pretty sure they are just "bolts" that if they hit him will make him unlucky in one aspect (like if he's chasing her and gets hit, he;ll trip.) Or if they're inside adn she hits the ceiling with one, it might collapse on him. I don't think there is any fire property to it though. At least that is how I've always thought of hex bolts (and looking at the bio posted by Hippy that is what I assume is true. Either way, these won't do enough damage Black Tom seeing as how he can regenerate with new plant life if he even got hurt. While they might allow Nocturne even more time to evade him, she will go down eventually.

Winner- Black Tom Cassidy

[Hellstormer]

Rebuttal



While it would defiantely benefit Nocturne to keep Black Tom away form all plants, that is almost impossible to do. The plants don't have to be visible to be controlled, so he can control the roots in the ground just as well.
Well the area is the Badlands, which as magical properties that Nocturne can use and is bases after the American Southwest whihc has very sparse plantlife so I don't think it would be that hard to keep him away from a few patches of grass and her hex bolts bend probability (Thanks Hippy;)) so she could maybe make all the plants around him die

Winner=Nocturne

[Harlekin]

Just to clarify something: Nocturne does not bend probalities. She calls her energy blasts hex bolts in homage of her mother, but they are not really hex bolts as the Scarlet Witch employs them. For more info, see here (http://exiles.confusticated.com/nocturne.html).

[kytrigger]

Rebuttal

Well the area is the Badlands, which as magical properties that Nocturne can use and is bases after the American Southwest whihc has very sparse plantlife so I don't think it would be that hard to keep him away from a few patches of grass and her hex bolts bend probability (Thanks Hippy;)) so she could maybe make all the plants around him die

Winner=Nocturne

Rebuttal

Actually the american southwest does have quite a bit of plant life depending on where you are at. If they are in the "badlands" which I am assuming is the main part, yes it is known as a desert, but it still has plant life. There are quite a few bushes and cacti around. This picture here is actually of Death Valley, something most people think of as the having absolutely no plant life due to the heat.
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l52/rbouras/deathvalley.jpg

Also, if this area is like the entire american southwest then you also have huge forests in play with giant redwood trees and whatnot. Basically what I'm trying to say is that no matter where they are, there will be planty of plany life for Black Tom to make copies of himself and heal form any injuries he might get.

Also, It seems that her hex bolts are different than Scarlet Witches afterall. While they do seem more like an energy blast, that doesn't mean they would have a fire property to them. They might knock Black Tom down, but I doubt they would burn him, and I highly doubt they would keep him down.

Winner- Black Tom Cassidy

[Darthphere]

Captain Britain devours Falcon and Redwing.


Goddamn the Falcon and his little bird too. Heres a overview on the matchup.

Captain Britian's powers include Super speed, strength, and stamina, flight and in his last appearances, a suit with a manipulatable energy field.

Falcon originally possessed the ability to telepathically communicate with his pet falcon Redwing, but that ability has grown into the ability to telepathically communicate with any birds within an unknown radius. Through this telepathic link he is also able to receive mental images of what the birds see. And also, excellent trainer of birds, and has been highly trained in gymnastics and hand-to-hand combat by Captain America. Occasionally wears a glove on his left hand that contains a grappling hook.


After all that interesting stuff about Falcon, Captain Britian pretty much annihilates Falcon and Redwing. (By the way, no clue why hes included in here). Captain Britain can fly at speeds up to 770 MPH, meaning he can pretty much annihilate Flacon in flight. Hes near invulnerable and unless Falcon brought some hevay magical other worldly weapons, Falcon can call on all the birds he wants, they wont do anything but make Captain Britain angrier. Falcon is outclassed here sadly, as fan of the character it saddens me to say, he gets pwned.

Captain Britain wins.

[Hellstormer]

Rebuttal



Actually the american southwest does have quite a bit of plant life depending on where you are at. If they are in the "badlands" which I am assuming is the main part, yes it is known as a desert, but it still has plant life. There are quite a few bushes and cacti around. This picture here is actually of Death Valley, something most people think of as the having absolutely no plant life due to the heat.
Yes but it really depends on the area of the Southwest they're copying and I personally have no knowledge on this field besides what Phaed gave.


Also, It seems that her hex bolts are different than Scarlet Witches afterall. While they do seem more like an energy blast, that doesn't mean they would have a fire property to them. They might knock Black Tom down, but I doubt they would burn him, and I highly doubt they would keep him down.
Yes but the dimension Curt goes through is a hell dimension at least the last time I read Uncanny that's what they called it. I recall when the X-men were taken there someone ackknoledged ti was very hot and had the small of sulfur, so by using this information I conclude that they do have a fire property to them. To what extent is unknown but I think they do. If that's the case she simply needs to get in there and try to torch all the plantlife and then try to subdue Black with her telpathy and nail him with more bolts.

Winnner= Nocturne

[kytrigger]

Rebuttal

Yes but it really depends on the area of the Southwest they're copying and I personally have no knowledge on this field besides what Phaed gave. I definately agree that the amount of plant life can definately depend on the area, but the fact still remains that basically anywhere on earth, there will be plants for him to absorb/create more of himself, even in a desert setting.


Yes but the dimension Curt goes through is a hell dimension at least the last time I read Uncanny that's what they called it. I recall when the X-men were taken there someone ackknoledged ti was very hot and had the small of sulfur, so by using this information I conclude that they do have a fire property to them. OK, I can see where it could have fire properties to the bolts then. Personally, I've always had trouble remembering everything about Nightcrawler's dimension because they have changed it several times in the comics. I think one time it was actually the Darkforce dimension he teleported through (that's why he's always in shadows), but I know they've changed it since then.

If that's the case she simply needs to get in there and try to torch all the plantlife and then try to subdue Black with her telpathy and nail him with more bolts. Even if her bolts do have some fire damage to them, they're nowhere near powerful enough to completely burn down all the trees in the American Southwest/Badlands. That would take someone like Sunfire to do that.

Also, she makes her hex bolts by creating a portal for the energy to come through. This is pretty much how Nightcrawler (and I assume Nocturne) actually teleport through the dimension as well. It has been known that this can greatly fatigue a person, even them. They don't tire out as quickly because they have built up their stamina, but they can still tire nonetheless. A combination mixture of bamf-ing to dodge Black Tom and using Hex bolts to burn everything in sight would tire Nocturne out extremely quickly and then Black Tom would be able to easily catch her.

Winner- Black Tom Cassidy

[DarkHellRider]

Captain Britain devours Falcon and Redwing.


Goddamn the Falcon and his little bird too. Heres a overview on the matchup.

Captain Britian's powers include Super speed, strength, and stamina, flight and in his last appearances, a suit with a manipulatable energy field.

Falcon originally possessed the ability to telepathically communicate with his pet falcon Redwing, but that ability has grown into the ability to telepathically communicate with any birds within an unknown radius. Through this telepathic link he is also able to receive mental images of what the birds see. And also, excellent trainer of birds, and has been highly trained in gymnastics and hand-to-hand combat by Captain America. Occasionally wears a glove on his left hand that contains a grappling hook.


After all that interesting stuff about Falcon, Captain Britian pretty much annihilates Falcon and Redwing. (By the way, no clue why hes included in here). Captain Britain can fly at speeds up to 770 MPH, meaning he can pretty much annihilate Flacon in flight. Hes near invulnerable and unless Falcon brought some hevay magical other worldly weapons, Falcon can call on all the birds he wants, they wont do anything but make Captain Britain angrier. Falcon is outclassed here sadly, as fan of the character it saddens me to say, he gets pwned.

Captain Britain wins.

As Much as I hate to say it I totally agree and have no defense except the defense of the magical bird poop pf doom.

[Harlekin]

Another clarification: Nocturne can't teleport.

[kytrigger]

Another clarification: Nocturne can't teleport.

Shows how much I know about Nocturne. I really need to read up on her.


Not being able to teleport just makes it even harder for her to dodge Black Tom's attacks, especially if there are several at a time.

[Hellstormer]

Rebuttal

Rebuttal
I definately agree that the amount of plant life can definately depend on the area, but the fact still remains that basically anywhere on earth, there will be plants for him to absorb/create more of himself, even in a desert setting.
I won't deny that but if the amount of plantlife is too small it can put him at a disadvantage giving Nocturne time to strike.


OK, I can see where it could have fire properties to the bolts then. Personally, I've always had trouble remembering everything about Nightcrawler's dimension because they have changed it several times in the comics. I think one time it was actually the Darkforce dimension he teleported through (that's why he's always in shadows), but I know they've changed it since then.
Yea last time I read Uncanny his father was Satan and he teleported through a hell dimension.:whatever:

Even if her bolts do have some fire damage to them, they're nowhere near powerful enough to completely burn down all the trees in the American Southwest/Badlands. That would take someone like Sunfire to do that.
Again it would depend on the the amount of plantlife, if its sparse enough she could go through and use her agility to get her from catus,bush ect. and burn them.

Also, she makes her hex bolts by creating a portal for the energy to come through. This is pretty much how Nightcrawler (and I assume Nocturne) actually teleport through the dimension as well. It has been known that this can greatly fatigue a person, even them. They don't tire out as quickly because they have built up their stamina, but they can still tire nonetheless. A combination mixture of bamf-ing to dodge Black Tom and using Hex bolts to burn everything in sight would tire Nocturne out extremely quickly and then Black Tom would be able to easily catch her.

Harlekin cleared up taht she cannot teleport and opening the hell dimension portal does not make her tired. And come to tihnk of it I haven't even mentioned her telepathy. IIRC she can read immediate thoughts so in a fight she would be able to get the next move in giving her a huge advantage, if she knows Tom's going for a specific plant or trying to get in her in a specific direction she'll know.

Winner= Nocturne

[Phaedrus45]

Even though it doesn't matter, I still want to vote for the person who I think will win. SO, does anyone remember if Spider's history was revealed in regards to those he loves? Did he end up killing Mary Jane, Aunt May or anyone else who'd be important in his life? Because, among with Black Cat's powers, I was wondering if she'd be able to attempt to reach the Peter she once knew.

[kytrigger]

Rebuttal

Again it would depend on the the amount of plantlife, if its sparse enough she could go through and use her agility to get her from catus,bush ect. and burn them.Right, but there is very little (almost no area) in the badlands that actually has as little plant life as most people think. Like the picture I posted a bit ago, those were plants in Death Valley, a place usually thought of as no life whatsoever. And those weren't spindly little bushes and cacti (although there are a fair amount of both of those around too) those were trees.

While I definately agree with you that Nocturne could burn some of the plantlife in the area, there is just way too much of it for her to burn it all. Not to mention that it's almost impossible for her to burn the plant life underground that Black Tom has access to also.

Harlekin cleared up taht she cannot teleport and opening the hell dimension portal does not make her tired. And come to tihnk of it I haven't even mentioned her telepathy. IIRC she can read immediate thoughts so in a fight she would be able to get the next move in giving her a huge advantage, if she knows Tom's going for a specific plant or trying to get in her in a specific direction she'll know.The problem with using her telepathy is that it's extremely hard to get a reading on Black Tom. SHe has had trouble doing it herself. This is especially true when he creates copies of himself, which he does regularly. She might be able to read one of their minds, but not all of them. Black Tom knows this (since they know each other pretty well), and that is one of the reasons he would make copies of himself.

Winner- Black Tom Cassidy

[Hellstormer]

Well since I started the debate I'll let you have those last words in all fairness (and laziness)

O and Phaed: Yea I think he killed Aunt May and Mary Jane but idk about his Black Cat, he'll still rip her apart without thinking twice.

[Harlekin]

Clarification: Nightcrawler does not teleport through Azazel's (his dad) hell dimension. The dimension Azazel is in is not in fact the one that Kurt teleports through. It's not quite clear what dimension he teleports through, but it's not that dimension.

[Midnight Ice]

Clarification: Nightcrawler does not teleport through Azazel's (his dad) hell dimension. The dimension Azazel is in is not in fact the one that Kurt teleports through. It's not quite clear what dimension he teleports through, but it's not that dimension.
I know I have nothing to do with this debate and I will gladly take this down if anybody wants me to, but I thought that Nightcrawler's father made a comment about Nightcrawler popping in and out as he teleported. I could be wrong though. Good thing Harlekin is good at clarifing things.:xmen:

[WOLVERINE25TH]

AGATHA HARKNESS vs. THOR GIRL

Agatha may be the female version of Dr. Strange, but Thor Girl is the female version of Thor, and Thor has gone up against the magical types before and come out ahead.

Thor Girl is still an Asgardian and can take a hell of a beating as well as give one back. Also, she possesses a MYSTIC hammer which can offer some abilities against magical attacks. It also gives her some range as a throwing weapon, weather manipulation and energy blasts. No matter how much power Agatha has, the simple fact is she's still human and still prone to human frailties...especially at her age. Whereas Thor Girl is an Asgardian goddess at her peak. One good connecting blow is all that's needed to end the fight, and TG is just brash and stubborn enough to do it.

WINNER: THOR GIRL

[JewishHobbit]

Just a Note: Nightcrawler DOES in fact teleport through Azazel's dimension. I just looked through my Draco trade and found where it was clarified. The quote is, "They destroied my dimensional gateway through which I intended to return to my earth, the only gateway out of this hell hold, this dimension you teleport through, Kurt. This same dimension Niles shunts things into." Nightcrawler then follows that by confirming that he's right, as he recognizes the smell.


Just clarification.

[Harlekin]

Okay, that's odd, could've sworn they weren't the same. Thanks for correcting though.

[hippy fascist]

AGATHA HARKNESS vs. THOR GIRL

Agatha may be the female version of Dr. Strange, but Thor Girl is the female version of Thor, and Thor has gone up against the magical types before and come out ahead.

Thor Girl is still an Asgardian and can take a hell of a beating as well as give one back. Also, she possesses a MYSTIC hammer which can offer some abilities against magical attacks. It also gives her some range as a throwing weapon, weather manipulation and energy blasts. No matter how much power Agatha has, the simple fact is she's still human and still prone to human frailties...especially at her age. Whereas Thor Girl is an Asgardian goddess at her peak. One good connecting blow is all that's needed to end the fight, and TG is just brash and stubborn enough to do it.

WINNER: THOR GIRL

Thor girl is not the the female version of thor. When she had her cosmic powers she could have held her own against him but not anymore, now she's just a pitiful attempt to cash in on thor fans.

I haven't seen a single biography that states she has any additional resistance to magic even with the hammer (it's good but it's not Mjolnir)
Although to be fair I only read through 5 biographies of her so the might have ALL missed that aspect :o


If she throws the hammer agatha could create a forcefield(is that the right word for the magical equivalent) that could block it, and maintain it through the spirits she can summon, without diminishing her ability to cast offensive magic.

Agatha's body is frail but who needs to be super strong/durable when you can just throw up a forcefield with a wave of your hand and a quick incantation :huh:

Even if Thor Girl did have some resistance against agatha's magic, she has proven adept in the past at creating portals to other dimensions. All agatha hs to do is drop one under Thor Girl's feet and she'd get sucked into any number of hell dimensions.

Thor Girl is strong and against a brawler or a ranged weapon specialist she'd stand a hell of a chance, but when faced with pretty much unlimited power she's simply outclassed. Agatha would humiliate Thor Girl without so much as breaking a sweat.

Finally to say she is at her peak is ridiculous as surely her peak was when she had her cosmic powers... :confused:

WINNER: AGATHA HARKNESS!

[Phaedrus45]

Voting May Begin!

[JewishHobbit]

Yea last time I read Uncanny his father was Satan and he teleported through a hell dimension.:whatever:


Azazel was never Satan.. in the issue after he claimed it, he confessed to simply being a very old mutant from biblical times, and compared his life to that of Satan's. Sorry, it bugs me when people mock that storyline. It was great... and most the stuff that people belittle about it aren't even accurate to the story.

And this isn't anything against Hellstormer.... it's just a pet peeve of mine. :)

[JewishHobbit]

Captain Britain Though the birdpoop of doom had me going!
Black Tom Cassidy
Spider
Agatha Harkness

[kytrigger]

Black Tom Cassiday
Agatha Harkness
Captain Britain
Spider

[Zoken]

Captain Britain
Black Tom Cassidy
Spider
Agatha Harkness

[hippy fascist]

Captain Britain: bad draw for falcon I guess :(

Black Tom Cassidy: Although I think there was a debate that could have gone the other way, all you had to say was flamethrower and the fight would have been yours :(

Spider: Black cat would have trouble with regular spidey, this guy would just eviscerate her

Agatha Harkness

[Phaedrus45]

*Black Tom Cassidy - (I really could have gone the other way with this match. This was a tough match to vote for.)

*Agatha Harkness - (I think Thor Girl could take Agatha, but she would need a stronger debate.)

*Spider-Exiles

*Captain Britain-Brian Braddock

[wiegeabo]

Nocturne
Agatha Harkness (good battle)
Spider (should be a decent fight)
Captain Britain (maybe Falcon shouldn't see season 3 :()

[Midnight Ice]

Captain Britain
Black Tom Cassidy
Spider
Agatha Harkness

[POWdER-man]

Spider (doesn't even think twice)
Agatha Harkness (poor Thor Girl)
Captain Britain
Black Tom Cassidy (and his pimp cane)

[Phaedrus45]

Results So Far:

Black Tom Cassidy currently beating Nocturne-Exiles 7-1
Agatha Harkness currently beating Thor Girl 8-0
Spider-Exiles currently beating Black Cat 8-0
Captain Britain-Brian Braddock currently beating Falcon & Redwing 8-0

[Hellstormer]

Wow this entire thread is just one-sided, and what's up- with the Exiles characters always getting the thrashing? (Morph, Blink, and now NOcturne:()

[Hellstormer]

Nocturne (She's faced were and I think she could take him.)

Agatha

Spider

Captain Britain.

[Iceman]

Some very one sided matches here

Black Tom Cassidy
Agatha Harkness
Spider (Exiles) - Awww I want to see more Black Cat :(
Captain Britain

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Nocturne
Thor
Spider
Cap

[hippy fascist]

Nocturne
Thor
Spider
Cap

dude she's even your character...:confused:

[JewishHobbit]

Wow this entire thread is just one-sided, and what's up- with the Exiles characters always getting the thrashing? (Morph, Blink, and now NOcturne:()

Yeah, sucks don't it? I was actually JUST NOW looking through the Exile trades, and man I loved those earlier stories. I think they're just getting bad draws this season. Did Thunderbird fight already too?

[hippy fascist]

Yeah, sucks don't it? I was actually JUST NOW looking through the Exile trades, and man I loved those earlier stories. I think they're just getting bad draws this season. Did Thunderbird fight already too?

he got spanked by radioactive man, thanks to... me! :woot:

[Darthphere]

Captain Britain
Black Tom Cassidy
Spider
Agatha Harkness

[Hellstormer]

he got spanked by radioactive man, thanks to... me! :woot:
Yes the amn that took down Galactus got beat by a man who had too many X-Rays :rolleyes:

[hippy fascist]

Yes the man that got beat down by Galactus got beat by a man who has strength equivalent to the hulk

Fixed

You see you've used sarcasm and your lack of knowledge to try and make me look like I've fluked it, when actually you just end up making yourself look uninformed...:o

[Hellstormer]

Fixed

You see you've used sarcasm and your lack of knowledge to try and make me look like I've fluked it, when actually you just end up making yourself look uninformed...:o
OK he has the strength of Hulk, has Hulk ever taken down Galactus? And I really wasn't trying to mock you, I was mocking the voter with a lack of knowledge but if you wanna take it personally be my guest.:o

[wiegeabo]

Fixed

You see you've used sarcasm and your lack of knowledge to try and make me look like I've fluked it, when actually you just end up making yourself look uninformed...:o


Hippy-reality. It's a wild and scary place.

Goddamn Hippies!

[Harlekin]

Black Tom
Agatha Harkness
Spider (Exiles)
Captain Britain

[Darren Daring]

Black Tom Cassidy
Agatha Harkness
Spider-Exiles
Captain Britain-Brian Braddock

[hippy fascist]

OK he has the strength of Hulk, has Hulk ever taken down Galactus? And I really wasn't trying to mock you, I was mocking the voter with a lack of knowledge but if you wanna take it personally be my guest.:o

He has never taken down galactus, my point as that you have misread what wiegeabo wrote. John got in one punch then got put in a coma bty galactus for his trougles that has still yet to recover from. Hardly what I'd class as a beatdown

[Phaedrus45]

Results So Far:

Black Tom Cassidy currently beating Nocturne-Exiles 11-3
Agatha Harkness currently beating Thor Girl 13-1
Spider-Exiles currently beating Black Cat 14-0
Captain Britain-Brian Braddock currently beating Falcon & Redwing 14-0

(BTW, I believe Zoken has only voted in this thread. Unless we get more votes in other threads, his votes won't count.)

[DarkHellRider]

Black tom cassidy
agatha
spider
captain britain (just couldnt bring myself to vote for my character)

[Hellstormer]

He has never taken down galactus, my point as that you have misread what wiegeabo wrote. John got in one punch then got put in a coma bty galactus for his trougles that has still yet to recover from. Hardly what I'd class as a beatdown
:confused:Ummm ok again I'm not gonna argue with you so you can just stay on that high horse with the broken leg. The point is in a straight fight T-Bird would have Radioactive Man crying for his uncle in minutes. O and just so you know T-Bird took down the Hulk in Exiles #5.

[Ahura Mazda]

Black tom cassidy
Agatha Harkness
Spider
Captain Britain

[Phaedrus45]

Final Results:

Black Tom Cassidy beat Nocturne-Exiles 12-3
Agatha Harkness beat Thor Girl 14-1
Spider-Exiles beat Black Cat 15-0
Captain Britain-Brian Braddock beat Falcon & Redwing 15-0

(One set of votes were removed due to lack of voting in other threads.)

[Phaedrus45]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/JewishHobbit/CoM.jpg

BRACKET 1,

Match 13:

Flatman (TRIGGER) bio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatman_(comics))

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_0094.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=0094.jpg)

vs.

Caliban (JEWISHHOBBIT) bio (http://www.mutanthigh.com/caliban.html)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/250px-Xforce45.jpg

Match 14:

Wind Dancer (AHURA MAZDA) bio (http://www.mutanthigh.com/winddancer.html)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_winddancer.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=winddancer.jpg)

vs.

Squirrel Girl & Tippy-Toe (ZOKEN) bio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squirrel_girl)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_225px-SquirrelGirl.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=225px-SquirrelGirl.jpg)

[Phaedrus45]

BRACKET 2,

Match 13:

Photon - Genis (KYTRIGGER) bio (http://www.marvel.com/universe/Photon_(Genis-Vell))

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_CA.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=CA.jpg)

vs.

Metalhead (JEWISHHOBBIT) bio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metalhead_(comics))

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_250px-Xmen2099-14.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=250px-Xmen2099-14.jpg)

Match 14:

Moon Knight (HELLSTORMER) bio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_Knight)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/250px-MOONKN001COV.png

vs.

Whirlwind (POWDERMAN) bio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whirlwind_%28comics%29)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_whirlwind.gif (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=whirlwind.gif)

[Phaedrus45]

Location:

Empire State University (ESU) is a fictional (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictional) university in the Marvel Comics Universe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_Comics_Universe). It is located somewhere in New York City (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City), America (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States). Many Marvel Comics characters, especially those associated with Spider-Man (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider-Man), have either attended or worked at the university.

(It's a Saturday. Very little students, classes are closed, and you might have the stray janitor or kids in the library.)

[Hellstormer]

Final Results:

Black Tom Cassidy beat Nocturne-Exiles 12-3
Agatha Harkness beat Thor Girl 14-1
Spider-Exiles beat Black Cat 15-0
Captain Britain-Brian Braddock beat Falcon & Redwing 15-0

(One set of votes were removed due to lack of voting in other threads.)
Huh, Nocturne got 2 more votes glad to see some people had an open mind even though even I knew the chances of her winning were slim. Nice debate Ky.

[Hellstormer]

Match 14:

Moon Knight (HELLSTORMER) bio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_Knight)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/250px-MOONKN001COV.png

vs.

Whirlwind (POWDERMAN) bio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whirlwind_%28comics%29)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_whirlwind.gif (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=whirlwind.gif):) Moon Knight would destroy Whirlwind. First off Marc would be familier with the surroundings because he's attended many charitable celebrations and made many donations to this college. Also he wouldn't hold back at all, he would have Avenger level clearence to the files he needed, but Whirlwind would have Masters of evil files....but do they rreally even have somewhere to hold this stuff? I'm assuming they don't but even if they did the files on MK would be slim. Now again in MK knows he's going into a tough battle he won't hold back. MK would know that Whirlwind has increased strength and perfect balnce meaning he'l have to use him weapons and the the few hits he gets effectively. Now WW's bio says nothing as far as his fighting ability where as MArc is considered to be one of the most efficient fighters in the MU. And depending on the phase of the moon his strength could really level this abttle out. If it's not night time MArc will by his time waiting for night. His costume is made to hide well in the shadows making him almost invisible in the shadows. Moon KNight has a variety of weapons and in thsi particular battle he'll probaly bring his spiked knuckles, admantium staff, and probaly a handgun (Yes he does use firearms). Now the actual battle I won't be able to say about until Phaed tells me the Moon phase. So hold off on a rebuttall till I know that.:yay:

EDIT: Ok Phaed said it's night time so MK won't need to buy time. I'm assuming the Moon is probaly a half moon waxing which means he's on the same strength level as Spiderman. Now I'm not exactly sure how strog WW is but MK knows he's perfectly balanced so he'll probaly try to do something to disorient and cnofuse him the battle would mostly be WW thrashing through everything while MK hid and waited for the correct times to strike and when he would it would be swift in mercilous.

Winner= Moon Knight

[Ahura Mazda]

Match 14:

Wind Dancer (AHURA MAZDA) bio (http://www.mutanthigh.com/winddancer.html)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_winddancer.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=winddancer.jpg)

vs.

Squirrel Girl & Tippy-Toe (ZOKEN) bio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squirrel_girl)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_225px-SquirrelGirl.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=225px-SquirrelGirl.jpg)


This is an interesting match up.......not.

Wind dancer is a mutant who has control of winds whereas Squirrel Girl has squirrel powers and the ability to communicate with them.

In a normal matchup, wind dancer will create a wind shield (a condensed set of criss crossing winds that would act to repel anything that tries to penetrate the wall of winds) around her that would be impervious to any attack. She would then go searching for Squiirel Girl who she would know full well. Wind dancer would be lugging a big bag around with her.

Squirrel Girl would probably try and surprise her by jumping on her but she wuold be surprised by these set of winds which would automatically repel her. Squirrel Girl would then probably summon a horde of squirrels but....... that would be the point that Wind dancer would open the big bag which would contain nuts that she would send out using the wind to the hungry squirrels who would be busy eating them and during this moment of distration squirrel girl would feel herself lifted up by a gale force wind and tossed to the wall with Tippy Toe knocking both of them out.

Wind Dancer would then check out the dorms and faculty as college is just around the corner for her....

[JewishHobbit]

Caliban Vs Flatman

I'm of the mind that this is a blowout match... and here's hoping that you all agree with me. Flatman is intelligent and has decent leadership abilities. Caliban is a large beast who is innocent but also has a savage heart. His mutant ability is that he can track other mutants, and that is where Flatman is going to fall. He can try to hide or do what he wants, but Caliban will know exactly where he is. Now here's the battle as I see it...

They are in the university, and Flatman is looking for some way to take advantage of the beast. He will find a science lab and will begin to formulate an equasion (him being very smart) that could form some type of knock out gas.. however, it takes time to find the stuff to make it work and to make it, and Caliban's ability to track other mutants will not give him that time. He will be working on the formula, and just as he is about ready to perfect it, Caliban bursts into the room and attacks. Flatman will get the gas released, but will be attacked before it can fully effect Caliban, and he will be beaten to a tar beneath the former Horseman of Apocalypse. Flatman will be out, and Caliban will begin to feel a bit woozy himself, but he will be fine. In the end, he is still standing.

Winner - Caliban

(see, I was even being fair and giving Flatman a fair chance in this match :))

[Zoken]

Squirrel Girl and Tippy-Toe (thanks for letting her have her partner by the way) Vs. Wind Dancer.

This isn't going to be a difficult match, you're right. Now Doreen won't know what her power is, but it won't be hard to divine from her name. Now, Squirrel-Girl is a master of thinking different combat. She's gone up against Thanos, Terrax, Mandarin, Dr. Doom, and MODOK and come out on top. She's got something up her sleeve. She's going to stalk Wind Dancer for a while, who won't know ANYTHING about Doreen as most people wouldn't. She will observe the way the winds move around her (many squirrels glide so it isn't inconceivable that they would inform her about how the winds are behaving). she won't attack directly from the front. Her squirrels will approach her first. since Wind Dance doesn't know that Doreen can control them she might find it odd that Squirrels are following her, and eventually catch on. but they can clump together weighing themselves down and still moving forward. when Wind Dancer's mind is occupied by the squirrels that are menacing her, that is when Doreen strikes. She jumps in to make a few quick strikes, but is quickly pushed away by the wind. However, she left a present behind: Tippy-Toe. now what girl isn't going to freak out when she finds a rodent in her hair. not to mention Tippy-Toe has to have a good grip as she was the only squirrel to survive that vortex in the Misassembled arc. Now Tippy-Toe will be on a mission... get in her clothing. Like I said, Squirrel-Girl is a master of fighting differently. while Tippy Toe is scrabbling all over Wind Dancer's body (With no room for a sufficently powerful enough wind to propel her away) the other squirrels advance, along with Squirrel-Girl to pin Wind Dancer.

[Zoken]

This is an interesting match up.......not.

Wind dancer is a mutant who has control of winds whereas Squirrel Girl has squirrel powers and the ability to communicate with them.

In a normal matchup, wind dancer will create a wind shield (a condensed set of criss crossing winds that would act to repel anything that tries to penetrate the wall of winds) around her that would be impervious to any attack. She would then go searching for Squiirel Girl who she would know full well. Wind dancer would be lugging a big bag around with her. Tell me, for starters, where it shows Wind Dancer, still very much a novice at her powers, capable of that. I read most of her Pre-M-Day arc. she could fly, she could carry sounds, and she could throw wind at people, that was the extent of her powers.

Squirrel Girl would probably try and surprise her by jumping on her but she wuold be surprised by these set of winds which would automatically repel her. Squirrel Girl would then probably summon a horde of squirrels but....... that would be the point that Wind dancer would open the big bag which would contain nuts that she would send out using the wind to the hungry squirrels who would be busy eating them and during this moment of distration squirrel girl would feel herself lifted up by a gale force wind and tossed to the wall with Tippy Toe knocking both of them out. Squirrel Girl knows subtlety and timing. she knows how to plan and how to attack. SHIELD has considered her for a spot as agent. And if the horde-o-squirrels is so ravenous they'd ignore their target for a bag of nuts, then they would also be mauling Squirrel-Girl as she carries nuts in her nut-sacks at her waist and is know to smell like hazelnuts.

Wind Dancer would then check out the dorms and faculty as college is just around the corner for her.... oh, for the record, the environment favors SG as it not only gives her room and structures to manuever in and on, but it also grants her back-up in the form of the Horde-o-Squirrels

[Ahura Mazda]

Rebuttal

Squirrel Girl and Tippy-Toe (thanks for letting her have her partner by the way) Vs. Wind Dancer.

This isn't going to be a difficult match, you're right. Now Doreen won't know what her power is, but it won't be hard to divine from her name.

First of all as a student in the x-mansion, she should have access to files on all mutants including squirrel girl. Therefore she should know who this character is.


Now, Squirrel-Girl is a master of thinking different combat. She's gone up against Thanos, Terrax, Mandarin, Dr. Doom, and MODOK and come out on top.

As quite a few happenned off panel, please state how she won in each of those. Squirrel girl is a joke and you know it and to use the battles above as a reference is ludicrous.

She's got something up her sleeve. She's going to stalk Wind Dancer for a while, who won't know ANYTHING about Doreen as most people wouldn't.

Given that Wind Dancer will leave the main building and go on the grounds and that she will keep the wind tightly controlled around her, how is squirrel girl supposed to figure anything out? If she is not allowed she will find a main hall with access to windows which she will have all openned.

She will observe the way the winds move around her (many squirrels glide so it isn't inconceivable that they would inform her about how the winds are behaving).

So tell me, are all these squirrels now meterologists who can state that wind is behaving strangely because they can compare natural wind patterns with what may be winds started unnaturally. All they could note is it may be a windy day and even that is unlikely if Doreen keeps the winds tight around herself.

she won't attack directly from the front. Her squirrels will approach her first. since Wind Dance doesn't know that Doreen can control them she might find it odd that Squirrels are following her, and eventually catch on. [QUOTE=Zoken]

You do realise alo this is a university in which there are stragglers. Do you not think that if people see squirrels walking around they might deem it strange and call pest control. Squirrels are not just going to roam the groounds iwthout hinderance.

[QUOTE=Zoken]but they can clump together weighing themselves down and still moving forward[QUOTE=Zoken]

I hate to break it to you but if a hurricane like wind hits the squirrels they are all flying away. No clumping would help.

[QUOTE=Zoken]when Wind Dancer's mind is occupied by the squirrels that are menacing her, that is when Doreen strikes. She jumps in to make a few quick strikes, but is quickly pushed away by the wind. However, she left a present behind: Tippy-Toe. now what girl isn't going to freak out when she finds a rodent in her hair. not to mention Tippy-Toe has to have a good grip as she was the only squirrel to survive that vortex in the Misassembled arc. Now Tippy-Toe will be on a mission... get in her clothing. [QUOTE=Zoken]

OK apart from the fact she could use her hands to whip tippy toe or way or a wind to thow her into a wall. How the hell does tippy toe get past the wind that pushed Squirrel Girl away? What is Tippy toe a special squirrel that can withstand the wind?

[QUOTE=Zoken] Like I said, Squirrel-Girl is a master of fighting differently. while Tippy Toe is scrabbling all over Wind Dancer's body (With no room for a sufficently powerful enough wind to propel her away) the other squirrels advance, along with Squirrel-Girl to [b]pin[/p] Wind Dancer.

Why would there not be enough room. she can create a wind that wisks Tippy Toe away like a tornado which are tightly focused winds that work like a funnel.

And the others where not just flung away but flung either into walls or trees or other hard inanimate objects so they are all knocked out.

Besides all that, we are not in a wrestling match, pinning is not victory, even if she was pinned wind dancer could generate winds that would have squirrels and squirrel girl flying all over the room striking things.

[Ahura Mazda]

Tell me, for starters, where it shows Wind Dancer, still very much a novice at her powers, capable of that. I read most of her Pre-M-Day arc. she could fly, she could carry sounds, and she could throw wind at people, that was the extent of her powers.

She learnned because it si a very small step between throwing people awy and keeping winds as a buffer which will throw all away as a buffer zone.

Squirrel Girl knows subtlety and timing. she knows how to plan and how to attack. SHIELD has considered her for a spot as agent.

Was it not more then someone stated her as a joke. And just a little point of information, Squirrel Girl is not Batman or James Bond.

And if the horde-o-squirrels is so ravenous they'd ignore their target for a bag of nuts, then they would also be mauling Squirrel-Girl as she carries nuts in her nut-sacks at her waist and is know to smell like hazelnuts.

Oh I am sorry...are you stating that the squirrels would attack her as well. That is fine with me. Therefore squirrel girl attacks by her own squirrels gets eaten alive. ;)

Squirrels like to horde therefore if they see nuts flung at them they will be distracted and likely more interested in the hazelnuts then in Wind Dancer.

oh, for the record, the environment favors SG as it not only gives her room and structures to manuever in and on, but it also grants her back-up in the form of the Horde-o-Squirrels


Really, I do not see that. How does this structure give her back up in the form of horde-o-squirrels. This is not chipmunk university you know. Plus if it was in the city it would take time for the squirrels to make it there.

Wind Dancer sould easily knock squirrel girl out which would quickly end the battle.

[kytrigger]

Photon - Genis (KYTRIGGER) bio (http://www.marvel.com/universe/Photon_(Genis-Vell))

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_CA.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=CA.jpg)

vs.

Metalhead (JEWISHHOBBIT) bio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metalhead_(comics))

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_250px-Xmen2099-14.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=250px-Xmen2099-14.jpg)



Back from visiting my mom and stepdad for thanksgiving and ready to debate...

This is an unfortunate match-up for Metalhead because when compared to Genis, he is simply outclassed.

Powers wise, Metalhead has enhanced strength and takes on the properties of whatever metal he touches.

Photon has the ability to mainipulate photons (of which everything is made out of), has super strength, and cosmic awareness. This is a guy that when he went insane, used his powers to not only destroy the universe, but to recreate it again as well (with some minor differences.)

Now to get the prep time out of the way, I am not sure that Metalhead could get any info on Photon. He is form the future though, so he might be able to. As for Genis, he could know everythign about Metalhead. Even though he is from teh future, his cosmic awareness is greater than the original Captain Marvel's and he can see through time. Not only will this help, but when the battle takes place, he will already know what Metalhead is going to do before he does it.

Add the Cosmic Awareness to his other abilities of super strength, and the fact that he manipulates photons so he could do anythign from shooting blasts, to completely destroying metalhead on a molecular level and he pretty much has this one in the bag.

Winner- Photon


EDIT: I just read in the COM discussion thread that this is Photon withteh Thunderbolts. I'd like to point out that whiel I talked about him begin able to create and destroy the universe, that was when he was insane. Somehow the insanity did give him a power upgrade so he isn't on that level during this fight. He does however still maintain all of the same powers, just not at universe-destroying levels.

[Zoken]

Rebuttle of the Rebuttle Rebuttal: First of all as a student in the x-mansion, she should have access to files on all mutants including squirrel girl. Therefore she should know who this character is. Squirrel Girl has never been identified as mutant to anyone other than Tony Stark and the GLC. She has never attended that X-Mansion, nor has she every interacted with mutants aside from her interaction at the Thing's Poker game, and I doubt "Hey, you're a mutant? What are your powers so I can document them for all my students to have access to" is going to come up. The X-Men don't know about her. she may be a mutant M-Day survivor, but she is not part of the 198 in the Xavier Compound,




As quite a few happenned off panel, please state how she won in each of those. Squirrel girl is a joke and you know it and to use the battles above as a reference is ludicrous. as much of a joke as you may think Squirrel-Girl is, and as much as those battles happened off panel, They are all still incontinuity.



Given that Wind Dancer will leave the main building and go on the grounds and that she will keep the wind tightly controlled around her, how is squirrel girl supposed to figure anything out? If she is not allowed she will find a main hall with access to windows which she will have all openned. Doreen can follow from roof tops, ledges, trees, whatever. she was able to sneak up on Tony Stark who was test piloting a sonar guidance system. I think she can sneak up on a green X-kid wannabe. and I doubt she could open every window around her by the way.



So tell me, are all these squirrels now meterologists who can state that wind is behaving strangely because they can compare natural wind patterns with what may be winds started unnaturally. All they could note is it may be a windy day and even that is unlikely if Doreen keeps the winds tight around herself. I wasn't say they are meterologists, but they do depend heavily on the wind for their day to day lives so they would understand quite intimately how the wind works.




You do realise alo this is a university in which there are stragglers. Do you not think that if people see squirrels walking around they might deem it strange and call pest control. Squirrels are not just going to roam the groounds iwthout hinderance. what are you talking about. this is a nice open campus with lots of trees and woody areas and grassy areas. of course squirrels can move about without hindrance, what are you smoking? No one calls pest control on squirrels unless they are inside the building, which would be an enormous disadvantage to Wind Dancer.



I hate to break it to you but if a hurricane like wind hits the squirrels they are all flying away. No clumping would help.Since when can she make hurricane force winds? and Squirrel-Girl's squirrels have survived a vortex that was sucking in the universe, I think they can stand up to whatever this teeniebopper is going to blow at them.



OK apart from the fact she could use her hands to whip tippy toe or way or a wind to thow her into a wall. How the hell does tippy toe get past the wind that pushed Squirrel Girl away? What is Tippy toe a special squirrel that can withstand the wind?Tippy-Toe jumps on while Wind Dancer is distracted by Squirrel-Girl. she is able to hang on because she has claws that she can dig into Wind Dancer's clothes, hair, or if need be skin.



Why would there not be enough room. she can create a wind that wisks Tippy Toe away like a tornado which are tightly focused winds that work like a funnel.Tippy-Toe would be tightly against Wind Dancer's body, there would be no room to whip up the kind of wind necessary to blow her off. She needs room to get her wind in motion.

And the others where not just flung away but flung either into walls or trees or other hard inanimate objects so they are all knocked out.They're squirrels, they don't have the same mass humans do, meaning the impact isn't as great. also they are arboreal in nature, so they are use to impacting trees and such as they leap and scamper daily.

Besides all that, we are not in a wrestling match, pinning is not victory, even if she was pinned wind dancer could generate winds that would have squirrels and squirrel girl flying all over the room striking things.Fine, while pinned, the squirrels strip Wind Dancer naked and Doreen refused to return the girl's things until she surrenders. and if need be she could just knock out Wind Dancer instead, however I think the humiliation of being butt-naked on a college campus would be enough to cause Wind Dancer to surrender. she is, after all, a teenage girl.

[Zoken]

She learnned because it si a very small step between throwing people awy and keeping winds as a buffer which will throw all away as a buffer zone.no, it is a large leap from using winds to throw people and creating a sheild with them.



Was it not more then someone stated her as a joke. And just a little point of information, Squirrel Girl is not Batman or James Bond. this has been addressed. She may be a joke in your opinion, but her adventures are all incontinuity. Squirrel-Girl isn't those characters... she's better.



Oh I am sorry...are you stating that the squirrels would attack her as well. That is fine with me. Therefore squirrel girl attacks by her own squirrels gets eaten alive. ;)

Squirrels like to horde therefore if they see nuts flung at them they will be distracted and likely more interested in the hazelnuts then in Wind Dancer. while I know you are being sarcastic, I'm going to address this. The squirrels she commands, obey her, not their instincts, thusly they will ignore any nuts thrown and obey their orders.




Really, I do not see that. How does this structure give her back up in the form of horde-o-squirrels. This is not chipmunk university you know. Plus if it was in the city it would take time for the squirrels to make it there. where do you think this is. Empire State University has a great deal of land scaping and greenery. what do you think lives there. this isn't in the city, its at ESU, and there are Squirrels living there, deal with it.

Wind Dancer sould easily knock squirrel girl out which would quickly end the battle. no, Squirrel-Girl is highly talented and has beat enemies far tougher, and far scarier than Wind Dancer.

and on another note, if ANYONE could possibly have prior knowledge of the other's powers, it would be Doreen. she could easily get on to the X-Men's campus and chat with their squirrels about the students.

[JewishHobbit]

Photon Vs Metalhead

Okay... so I thought long and hard about this match... and for the first time this season.... I got nothin'!!! I tried my best to find a way for Metalhead to win this match, but I can't think of a single thing. First off, I can't for the life of me figure out Photon's powers having never read anything with him in it before, and the profiles sure don't clear it up for me (it's like reading a foreign language!). I was trying to some how link the fact that Metalhead's latest metal absorbed was that of an alien ship that was designed to fly through space and all it's cosmic radiation and such, and how he could resist Photon's powers through that... and how he's resistent to light due to it... but I can't figure out if that would help him in this match or not. The only other thing I can think of is that Photon was taken out by Atlas by an act of force, and that it shows that Metalhead can possibly win with a show of force... but that's all I got.

So if you think any of these would help Metalhead (because I have no idea)... then vote for Metalhead.

Winner - I dunno

[Ahura Mazda]

Rebuttle of the Rebuttle Squirrel Girl has never been identified as mutant to anyone other than Tony Stark and the GLC. She has never attended that X-Mansion, nor has she every interacted with mutants aside from her interaction at the Thing's Poker game, and I doubt "Hey, you're a mutant? What are your powers so I can document them for all my students to have access to" is going to come up. The X-Men don't know about her. she may be a mutant M-Day survivor, but she is not part of the 198 in the Xavier Compound,

I was talking that in the cerebra files there may have been information on Squirrel Girl, given she was able to supposedly defeat characters like Dr. Doom and Thanos. But I do get your point as well so I would said my point is a possibility not a probability.


as much of a joke as you may think Squirrel-Girl is, and as much as those battles happened off panel, They are all still incontinuity.

But you did not answer this question which was how did she defeat these guys? Given that we did not know maybe it never really did happen. Especially, given that, none of the people she supposedly defeated in the comics can remember being defeated by her in continuity.



Doreen can follow from roof tops, ledges, trees, whatever. she was able to sneak up on Tony Stark who was test piloting a sonar guidance system. I think she can sneak up on a green X-kid wannabe. and I doubt she could open every window around her by the way.

This is where you lost me....Either we are having the battle inside in which case Wind Dancer would be opening the windows or it is outside where her powers are more effective.

By the way if they are outside I forgot to state that Wind Dancer would be using winds to keep her afloat above the tree line.



I wasn't say they are meterologists, but they do depend heavily on the wind for their day to day lives so they would understand quite intimately how the wind works.

All they understand is wind may be strong and they need to hide not variations of wind speed being abnormal.


what are you talking about. this is a nice open campus with lots of trees and woody areas and grassy areas. of course squirrels can move about without hindrance, what are you smoking? No one calls pest control on squirrels unless they are inside the building, which would be an enormous disadvantage to Wind Dancer.

The campus is in New York City and I do not know if you have visited New York University, but there is no nice open campus with trees and grass. There are city streets.

Columbia has a bit of a campus but it is surrounded by the city and the campus is not enormous.

I doubt this place has a campus like Northwestern or Harvard in Cambridge.

Therefore squirrels are unlikely to be too common. In any case, I think we have a bigger problem. It is whether we are outside or inside. Your whole opening remark was inside while mine happenned outside. I then stated what she would have done if it was inside. I am willing to say if outside, the squirrels could roam more freely (but if this was like NYU there would be no open campus only city streets) but inside, they would be hinderred by pest control.

Since when can she make hurricane force winds? and Squirrel-Girl's squirrels have survived a vortex that was sucking in the universe, I think they can stand up to whatever this teeniebopper is going to blow at them.

If you can make winds powerful enough to move people you can make hurricane force winds. So these squirrels that she would have called for in NYU would be the same ones as before. Hmmm that is not possible. And if they are new squirrels the chances of them being able to avoid a wind strong enough to pick up humans and fling them away, is very low.


Tippy-Toe jumps on while Wind Dancer is distracted by Squirrel-Girl. she is able to hang on because she has claws that she can dig into Wind Dancer's clothes, hair, or if need be skin.

But if Tippy toe comes from the same direction she would be just as affected as Squirrel Girl by the wind and being of smaller mass she would be affected even more by the wind pwoerful enough to move squirrel girl.

She also has a greater problem, wind dancer is up in the air above the tree line. How does squirrel girl of Tippy Toe reach her from below?


Tippy-Toe would be tightly against Wind Dancer's body, there would be no room to whip up the kind of wind necessary to blow her off. She needs room to get her wind in motion.

She would still need to get that close which is in question.

They're squirrels, they don't have the same mass humans do, meaning the impact isn't as great. also they are arboreal in nature, so they are use to impacting trees and such as they leap and scamper daily.

Fine, while pinned, the squirrels strip Wind Dancer naked and Doreen refused to return the girl's things until she surrenders. and if need be she could just knock out Wind Dancer instead, however I think the humiliation of being butt-naked on a college campus would be enough to cause Wind Dancer to surrender. she is, after all, a teenage girl.

Again they would need to get that close to pin her. Wind dancer would be using winds to fling them about gales would be going in every direction leaving her in a Vortex of safety. And the squirrels along with squirrel girl unable to control their own movements.

[Ahura Mazda]

no, it is a large leap from using winds to throw people and creating a sheild with them.

No it isn't. It is just a matter of creating criss crossing wind patterns which will always lead outward but would leave a vortex where nothing is happenning.


this has been addressed. She may be a joke in your opinion, but her adventures are all incontinuity. Squirrel-Girl isn't those characters... she's better.

A joke in most people's opinions not just mine. But I adress that above. I am just claiming that unless you can state how she defeated the characters she defeated you can not use those victories. I will give you Dr. Doom getting overwhelmed though even if all he had to do was a create an electrical discharge using his armour and it would have been fried squirrel.


while I know you are being sarcastic, I'm going to address this. The squirrels she commands, obey her, not their instincts, thusly they will ignore any nuts thrown and obey their orders.

I see...but the way I understand it tthey do obey their instincts and at worst, they would still be distracted by the nuts therfore making it more difficult albeit not impossible for squirrel girl to control them.

And I was being sarcastic.


where do you think this is. Empire State University has a great deal of land scaping and greenery. what do you think lives there. this isn't in the city, its at ESU, and there are Squirrels living there, deal with it.

From the info I read ESU is in the City and I am not aware of such a layout. But if we are outside it is not an issue for me because Wind Girl is above the tree line and squirrel girl cannot reach her.

no, Squirrel-Girl is highly talented and has beat enemies far tougher, and far scarier than Wind Dancer.

Squirrel girl was some writer's sarcastic comment on the power writers had. And please refer to my comment above. If you do not know how she defeated the list of people she supposedly did then I say it did not happen.

Does a rock make a noise if nothing is there to hear it?

and on another note, if ANYONE could possibly have prior knowledge of the other's powers, it would be Doreen. she could easily get on to the X-Men's campus and chat with their squirrels about the students.

I have adressed that point above in the post just before this one.

[Zoken]

No it isn't. It is just a matter of creating criss crossing wind patterns which will always lead outward but would leave a vortex where nothing is happenning. No, it is a large leap. please remember, that just because you can imagine it doesn't mean it's easy for a ROOKIE MUTANT to do. remember, she's not Storm, she doesn't have the years of experience.




A joke in most people's opinions not just mine. But I adress that above. I am just claiming that unless you can state how she defeated the characters she defeated you can not use those victories. I will give you Dr. Doom getting overwhelmed though even if all he had to do was a create an electrical discharge using his armour and it would have been fried squirrel. I'm only going to address this once: Just because you don't like the character doesn't mean you can write off what has been stated IN CONTINUITY! she found ways to beat Dr. Doom, Thanos, MODOK, Terrax, Mandarin, and Giganto. She is clever enough to find a way to beat Wind Dancer, a ROOKIE x-wannabe




I see...but the way I understand it tthey do obey their instincts and at worst, they would still be distracted by the nuts therfore making it more difficult albeit not impossible for squirrel girl to control them.

And I was being sarcastic. you "understand it" that way, because that's how you want it to be, NOT because it's the truth. Squirrels around Squirrel Girl are much smarter than normal, and with prolonged exposure seem to retain that intelligence.




From the info I read ESU is in the City and I am not aware of such a layout. But if we are outside it is not an issue for me because Wind Girl is above the tree line and squirrel girl cannot reach her. from pictures in Slingers and Gravity we have seen ESU and it is well landscaped, even if it is in the city. besides, Squirrels don't live in JUST trees. they've been known to live on buildings and skyscrapers.



Squirrel girl was some writer's sarcastic comment on the power writers had. And please refer to my comment above. If you do not know how she defeated the list of people she supposedly did then I say it did not happen.

Does a rock make a noise if nothing is there to hear it? again, this is you trying to deny what is already in continuity.


as to your contention that Wind Dancer would get above the treeline, then squirrel-girl would stay in the trees, hidden from Wind Dancer's view. she has been show to be an excellent leaper and highly agile. while Wind Dancer does have a dancer's agility, it is out done by Squirrel-Girl's super-human agility.

Squirrel-Girl wins.... DEAL WITH IT

[Ahura Mazda]

No, it is a large leap. please remember, that just because you can imagine it doesn't mean it's easy for a ROOKIE MUTANT to do. remember, she's not Storm, she doesn't have the years of experience.

It may not be easy but she could do it and therefore it is possible. That possibility would negate any tactic you had.




I'm only going to address this once: Just because you don't like the character doesn't mean you can write off what has been stated IN CONTINUITY! she found ways to beat Dr. Doom, Thanos, MODOK, Terrax, Mandarin, and Giganto. She is clever enough to find a way to beat Wind Dancer, a ROOKIE x-wannabe


Since you feel you have to keep insulting my character I will insult yours. Your Iron Man sidekick wannabe may have won but that was not my question to you.....the question was how did she win? You do not want to answer that question apparently.


I you "understand it" that way, because that's how you want it to be, NOT because it's the truth. Squirrels around Squirrel Girl are much smarter than normal, and with prolonged exposure seem to retain that intelligence.

Basically, you are stating to me that they are smart enough to overcome all their natural instincts......ok then please show me instances


from pictures in Slingers and Gravity we have seen ESU and it is well landscaped, even if it is in the city. besides, Squirrels don't live in JUST trees. they've been known to live on buildings and skyscrapers.

Fine I have no problem with that. Therefore you can assume that wind dancer is high up in the air above the range Squirrel Girl could jump or any of the other squirrels.


as to your contention that Wind Dancer would get above the treeline, then squirrel-girl would stay in the trees, hidden from Wind Dancer's view. she has been show to be an excellent leaper and highly agile. while Wind Dancer does have a dancer's agility, it is out done by Squirrel-Girl's super-human agility.


OK let me put it to you this way...sh is above the tree line sending gale force winds downwards causing all the trees to lose their leaves. Squirrel Girl will be affected by the winds and eventually will be knocked off the tree hard into the ground, knocking her out.

Squirrel Girl cannot fly...deal with it as you so much like to put it.

Wind Dancer wins

[Zoken]

It may not be easy but she could do it and therefore it is possible. That possibility would negate any tactic you had. ONE: this isn't just based on what is possible with her powers, but also what she is capable of by her history. Spider-Man should beable to pull objects toward him, but he doesn't because he has never done that. same instance. and even if she could accomplish this, It doesn't negate as she would have to continually focus on keeping the vortex in place, meaning she would need Squirrel-Girl to atack her.







Since you feel you have to keep insulting my character I will insult yours. Your Iron Man sidekick wannabe may have won but that was not my question to you.....the question was how did she win? You do not want to answer that question apparently. she won, more than likely, by out thinking them, and outmanuevering them, and acting differently than one would expect her to. we dont' know how she won, but we do know that she won. ACCEPT IT.




Basically, you are stating to me that they are smart enough to overcome all their natural instincts......ok then please show me instanceshow about any number of times shes commanded them to do things that would endanger their lives? Attacking Doom, attacking Batroc's Brigade, etc.




Fine I have no problem with that. Therefore you can assume that wind dancer is high up in the air above the range Squirrel Girl could jump or any of the other squirrels. if she's out of range for Squirrel Girl to jump to her, than she is out of range to effectively hit Squirrel-GIrl on the ground with sufficient winds. Aim and and power are the price of her protective distance.





OK let me put it to you this way...sh is above the tree line sending gale force winds downwards causing all the trees to lose their leaves. Squirrel Girl will be affected by the winds and eventually will be knocked off the tree hard into the ground, knocking her out. do you honestly think knocking her hout of a tree will knock her out? She's SQUIRREL-Girl. She's arboreal. besides, if Wind Dancer is high enough to be out of range (which means not just above the trees but above the surrounding buildings) then she is out of range to send a sufficiently powerful gust of wind at Squirrel GIrl before she can dodge.

The "Wannabe" comment, may have been insulting, but the "ROOKIE" comment was not an insult. I was pointing out that Wind Dancer is not a trained X-Man, nor is she highly experienced with her powers. She would not be able to pull off the "Wind Vortex Shield" that you pulled out of parts unknown.

[Ahura Mazda]

ONE: this isn't just based on what is possible with her powers, but also what she is capable of by her history. Spider-Man should beable to pull objects toward him, but he doesn't because he has never done that. same instance. and even if she could accomplish this, It doesn't negate as she would have to continually focus on keeping the vortex in place, meaning she would need Squirrel-Girl to atack her.

If it is possible it wold make her impervious to attack. that is all I was talking about that possibility that she could do it.



she won, more than likely, by out thinking them, and outmanuevering them, and acting differently than one would expect her to. we dont' know how she won, but we do know that she won. ACCEPT IT.

Unless I can understand how or at least envisage the possibility, I do not just accept things. The guy who wrote those victories did it as an ongoing joke and that is hopw I take them....as a joke.




how about any number of times shes commanded them to do things that would endanger their lives? Attacking Doom, attacking Batroc's Brigade, etc.

First of all they could not see any danger so that is not something so fundamentally against their instincts. Ignoring food is.



if she's out of range for Squirrel Girl to jump to her, than she is out of range to effectively hit Squirrel-GIrl on the ground with sufficient winds. Aim and and power are the price of her protective distance.

This is where you are mistaken, once wind dnacer starts a wind it can gather force and take a life on its own. Therefore at some point the wind will get her. plus the way I see it squirrel girl will be balanced on branches therfore one well placed wind would make her fall to her demise.





do you honestly think knocking her hout of a tree will knock her out? She's SQUIRREL-Girl. She's arboreal. besides, if Wind Dancer is high enough to be out of range (which means not just above the trees but above the surrounding buildings) then she is out of range to send a sufficiently powerful gust of wind at Squirrel GIrl before she can dodge.

First of all, being arboreal does not make you immune to falling. So if she falls she would get seriously hurt.

Second of all, if you refer to my point above a wind can take a life of its own. Just to add a little bit to my argument here is aa quote froma Wiki profile of her

Three weeks later, in early January, she joined the school, but had difficulty fitting in. By her birthday in May, despite her best efforts, she still had no friends at the school, and her father didn't even know it was her birthday (unlike his butler Derek, the only person who had any time for her). After hearing someone say that no one liked her behind her back after lying that they were busy, she finally snapped. Going to one of her father's stores, she let loose a hurricane inside it, completely wrecking it

Therefore if she let loose a huricane type wind capable of destroying a store, squirrel girl perched on top of trees is going to be flung hard knocking her out.

The "Wannabe" comment, may have been insulting, but the "ROOKIE" comment was not an insult. I was pointing out that Wind Dancer is not a trained X-Man, nor is she highly experienced with her powers. She would not be able to pull off the "Wind Vortex Shield" that you pulled out of parts unknown.

Fine then we can stop the name calling. And the wind vortex shield is just the application of logic and nothing more. Anyone including a young girl could have figured it out but no matter whether she can or not pull it off.

[Phaedrus45]

This is where you lost me....Either we are having the battle inside in which case Wind Dancer would be opening the windows or it is outside where her powers are more effective.

By the way if they are outside I forgot to state that Wind Dancer would be using winds to keep her afloat above the tree line.

FYI, your battle can be anywhere on campus, whether inside or outside. You guys just have to convince the readers where you think they'd both end up fighting...or, have contingency plans for either.

Oh, and this debate has been a great read. I still haven't made up my mind, although I'm leaning toward one side. The visuals in my mind of how this would go are great.

[Zoken]

Squirrel-Girl could would be able to stalk her from the outside of buildings if she were inside, and from trees. she'd have the gift of surprise no matter what. Inside Wind Dancer is at a disadvantage. Outs side, at best, they are on equal footing.

[Hellstormer]

Well I guess I'm off the hook against Whirlwind meaning Moon KNight will be around for the next round :D

[Ahura Mazda]

Squirrel-Girl could would be able to stalk her from the outside of buildings if she were inside, and from trees. she'd have the gift of surprise no matter what. Inside Wind Dancer is at a disadvantage. Outs side, at best, they are on equal footing.


Lets just assume they are outside and she is flying and throwing hurricane type winds outwards.

[JewishHobbit]

Metalhead Vs Photon

Metalhead HITS HIM WITH A BIG STICK!!!!

Winner - Metalhead

[kytrigger]

Metalhead Vs Photon

Metalhead HITS HIM WITH A BIG STICK!!!!

Winner - Metalhead

Rebuttal

NUH UH!!!

Winner- Photon

[Phaedrus45]

Voting May Begin!

[Harlekin]

Caliban
Wind Dancer - Good debate, and although I love Squirrel Girl, I do not feel comfortable taking into account her wins against people such as Thanos. That would make her entirely too powerful for this competition.
Photon - Nice try JH, but Photon is just a league too high for Metalhead.
Moon Knight

[kytrigger]

Caliban
Squirrel Girl -While I didn't just use her wins against people like Thanos as the end all reason for her to win, I did use them as a reference of her experience. She does have more than Wind Dancer, especially in tough battles. This tips the favor to her in an otherwise awesome match and debate.
Moon Knight
Photon-because he's stick-proof

[wiegeabo]

Caliban
Squirrel Girl (went back and forth several times)
Photon
Moon Knight

[hippy fascist]

Caliban
Squirrel Girl (she may well be a joke character but those wins are in continuity)
Photon
Moon Knight(with a debate this could have gone either way)

[Phaedrus45]

*Caliban

*Squirrel Girl - (Great debate...but, the way things are going, we're going to have quite a few debates about continuity and whether humorous books should be taken into account. BTW, SG's wins over people like Thanos didn't play into my decision.)

*Photon-Genis

*Moon Knight - (I had to debate against Whirlwind last season, and I learned what a joke he is. Moon Knight takes this easily.)

[Hellstormer]

Moon Knight (I feel kinda bad because I understand Powered is going through some tough stuff but MK has faced tougher in worst conditions)
Caliban (I couldn't find any support for Flatman so...)
Wind Dancer (I'll admit I didn't read the entire debate but it seemed like, in the first couple rebuttals, that Wind Dancer has the major advantage and I've seen how much she has grown and how strong she is through the pages of New Mutants and New X-men)
Photon (Ummmm yea he's like a God)

[Zoken]

Caliban
Squirrel Girl
Photon
Moon Knight

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Caliban
Photon
Wind Dancer
Moon Knight

[Phaedrus45]

Results So Far:

Caliban currently beating Flatman 8-0
Squirrel Girl currently beating Wind Dancer 5-3
Photon currently beating Metalhead 8-0
Moon Knight currently beating Whirlwind 8-0

[PinnyPed]

Caliban
Wind Dancer
Photon
Whirlwind

[Darren Daring]

Caliban
Squirrel Girl
Photon
Moon Knight

[DarkHellRider]

Caliban
Squirrel Girl
Photon
Moon Knight

[Ahura Mazda]

Caliban
Wind Dancer (I have a real problem with Squirrel Girl as a character in this contest, but I must say Zoken debated very well)
Photon (Not much to say, even before the insane super uber power surge he was too much for metal head)
Moon Knight

[Midnight Ice]

Caliban
Photon
Wind Dancer
Moon Knight
:xmen:

[Phaedrus45]

Results So Far:

Caliban currently beating Flatman 12-0
Squirrel Girl currently beating Wind Dancer 7-5
Photon currently beating Metalhead 12-0
Moon Knight currently beating Whirlwind 12-0

(PinnyPed's votes cannot be counted. He/she only has voted in two threads and doesn't have a high enough post count.)

[Ahura Mazda]

(PinnyPed's votes cannot be counted. He/she only has voted in two threads and doesn't have a high enough post count.)


That sucks for me :csad: ... but it is only fair :o

[Iceman]

Edit - Double

[Iceman]

Caliban (easy victory)
Squirrel Girl (not sure that she should be included in this tournament)
Photon (easy victory)
Moon Knight (hope to see some good matches with this character in later rounds)

[Hellstormer]

Moon Knight (hope to see some good matches with this character in later rounds)Don't worry I know this character inside and out I have almost every appearence of him. ;):up:
Results So Far:

Caliban currently beating Flatman 12-0
Squirrel Girl currently beating Wind Dancer 7-5
Photon currently beating Metalhead 12-0
Moon Knight currently beating Whirlwind 12-0

(PinnyPed's votes cannot be counted. He/she only has voted in two threads and doesn't have a high enough post count.)Wow one-sided thread here.

[Phaedrus45]

Don't worry I know this character inside and out I have almost every appearence of him. ;):up:


You have quite the battle ahead of you next round, though. Dang, I wouldn't want any of my characters facing Photon. There is just too much left to chance with him.

[Hellstormer]

You have quite the battle ahead of you next round, though. Dang, I wouldn't want any of my characters facing Photon. There is just too much left to chance with him.
Is my next battle really with Photon?:( That's gonna be a toughy can I get a full moon?

[JewishHobbit]

You have quite the battle ahead of you next round, though. Dang, I wouldn't want any of my characters facing Photon. There is just too much left to chance with him.


Yeah, that sucked so much. I was excited about getting my X-Men 2099's in the tourney this season, then I somehow managed to only get Metalhead... and he goes against Photon first round. That sucks. Next season they're sooo going first on my list... after Nico.




And my vote

Caliban
Wind Dancer
Metalhead
Moon Knight

Awsome debate with SG... but I just wasn't yet convinced.

[Darthphere]

Caliban
Wind Dancer
Metalhead
Moon Knight

[Phaedrus45]

Final Results:

Caliban beat Flatman 15-0
Squirrel Girl beat Wind Dancer 8-7
Photon beat Metalhead 13-2
Moon Knight beat Whirlwind 15-0

[Phaedrus45]

bump

[Ahura Mazda]

Damn :(

Well done Zoken.

but I really hate this character that was written as a joke and allowed victories which should never have been.

[Ahura Mazda]

Edit: Double post, sorry

[JewishHobbit]

Don't worry... I love Winddancer And my Caliban shall avenge her next round! :mad:

[Ahura Mazda]

Don't worry... I love Winddancer And my Caliban shall avenge her next round! :mad:


I will be cheering for you...no offence Zoken

[Varient]

up to page 7,... interesting reading,.... And you guys say you hate vs threads,....

[JewishHobbit]

Just average Vs threads annoy me, but this tourney has a little more going for it... such as sport, victories and advancement, and comic prizes along the way. We are the coolest!

[Varient]

Just average Vs threads annoy me, but this tourney has a little more going for it... such as sport, victories and advancement, and comic prizes along the way. We are the coolest!
Whish I could've got in on the ground floor,.. I'da argued Harder on SQ,...

[Varient]

Caliban
Squirrel Girl
Photon
Moon Knight
Good job on your defense of Ol' Bush tail.

Props.

[hippy fascist]

up to page 7,... interesting reading,.... And you guys say you hate vs threads,....

Some but mainly the ones involving hulk which basically involve 50 pages of fans denying that any defeat he ever suffered actually happened, and sometimes you can get them to concede as much as "yes he lost but it's bad writing" :whatever:

[Varient]

Some but mainly the ones involving hulk which basically involve 50 pages of fans denying that any defeat he ever suffered actually happened, and sometimes you can get them to concede as much as "yes he lost but it's bad writing" :whatever:
OPEN LAUGHTER.

"Bad Writing" is being overused on the Hype.

[hippy fascist]

OPEN LAUGHTER.

"Bad Writing" is being overused on the Hype.

Bad writing is to fanboys what handbag dogs are to paris hilton.

Another thing I'm getting sick of is these idiots that always reply to being called a fanboy by saying "we're all fanboys here". Me I read the books and have a think and then draw a conclussion. Don't lump me in with your little club :cmad:

[Phaedrus45]

Bad writing is to fanboys what handbag dogs are to paris hilton.

Another thing I'm getting sick of is these idiots that always reply to being called a fanboy by saying "we're all fanboys here". Me I read the books and have a think and then draw a conclussion. Don't lump me in with your little club :cmad:

But, I heard you have a little club. hmmmm....:whatever:

[hippy fascist]

But, I heard you have a little club. hmmmm....:whatever:

The donkey porn club?

[Phaedrus45]

One minute, we're discussing Squirrel Girl and her nut-sack, and the next minute a donkey porn club.

[Phaedrus45]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/JewishHobbit/CoM.jpg

BRACKET 1,

Match 15:

Zaran The Weapons Master (DARKHELLRIDER) bio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaran)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_zaran.gif (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=zaran.gif)

vs.

Gravitron (HARLEKIN) bio (http://www.marvel.com/universe/Graviton)

[/URL]http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_graviton.gif (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=Graviton.jpg)

Match 16:

Power Princess -Exiles (PHAEDRUS45) [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Princess"]bio (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=Graviton.jpg)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_175px-Powergirl.png (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=175px-Powergirl.png)

vs.

Silver Samurai (KYTRIGGER) bio (http://www.mutanthigh.com/silversamurai.html)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_Silver-Samurai.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=Silver-Samurai.jpg)

[Phaedrus45]

BRACKET 2,

Match 15:

Archangel (ICEMAN/PSYLOCKE) bio (http://www.mutanthigh.com/archangel.html)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_archangel1.gif (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=archangel1.gif)

vs.

Metarchus (HELLSTORMER) bio (http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/metarc.htm)

(photo unavailable)

Match 16:

La Lunatica (ZOKEN) bio (http://www.marvel.com/universe/Lunatica,_La_(2099))

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_LaLunatica.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=LaLunatica.jpg)

vs.

Savage Hulk (AHURA MAZDA) bio (http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/h/hulk.htm)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_hulk1.gif (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=hulk1.gif)

[Phaedrus45]

Location:

Subterranea is a fictional realm beneath the earth's surface in the Marvel Comics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_Comics) universe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_Universe). Subterranea is a system of massive caves and tunnels, some large enough to hold cities, that are inhabited by the various races of Subterraneans. The first recorded entrance to Subterranea was found at Monster Island (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monster_Island).

[Ahura Mazda]

BRACKET 2,

Match 16:

La Lunatica (ZOKEN) bio (http://www.marvel.com/universe/Lunatica,_La_(2099))

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_LaLunatica.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=LaLunatica.jpg)

vs.

Savage Hulk (AHURA MAZDA) bio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hulk_(comics))

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_hulk1.gif (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=hulk1.gif)


First of all I have changed the bio above to the one in Wikipedia which is more accurate taking into account recent evolutions of the character. The Savage Hulk, referring to the current marvel handbook, starts at class 100 not at 80 tons.

Second with regard his intelligence the current Hulk is as follows and this is a direct quote from Marvel:

IH: EOD: There are always discussions on different Hulk incarnations, which version are you using?

GP: Peter David left us with a great version of the Hulk -- he’s intelligent but dangerous, able to make his own choices and deal rationally with the world, but savage enough to make us always wonder just when he’ll lose control in the face of provocation and temptation.

GP is Greg Pak, the current writer of the Planet Hulk comics.

Third before I start, I wanted to refer to certain feats of the Hulk:

Hulk Feats] (http://www.incrediblehulk.com/incrediblefeats.html)

Ok having gotten that out of the way, let me get to the battle:

What we have here is 2 bruisers with a similar type of dynamic factor. La Lunatica increases her strength through creating intense emotions in her opponents. The Hulk increases his strength though feeling....intense emotions. Therefore it is a viscious circle for Luna who can only increase her strength through increasing the strength of her opponent.

Now I will admit, that the Hulk is unlikely to know anything about Luna, whereas Luna would certainly have heard of the name of the Hulk. However, she will not have complete information.

In any case, to prepare for this combat Hulk will soak up gamma radiation making himself extremely powerful...actually he already is extremely powerful...lets just say too powerful for Luna. To give you an idea of the type of power I am talking, Hulk withstood a nova flame by the Torch and struck down Thing with one blow (breaking his bones). He also will be coming equipped with gladiator type armour and a sword which he knows how to use.

Luna's only way to battle the Hulk would be to fight him head on and given she is inferiour to him in every way (her base strength is far below that of the Hulk)......except for looks.....she would lose expeditedly. It is even in question whether she could use her mind tricks given the Hulk's resistance to mind control (powerful enough to shrug off Selene - an upper mid tier telepath among other things) and for her to do so she would be in range of a character powerful enough to smash a planet size asteriod in smithereens. Luna is a cool character but in this match she could only lose.

Winner - The Hulk

[kytrigger]

Power Princess -Exiles (PHAEDRUS45) bio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Princess)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_175px-Powergirl.png (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=175px-Powergirl.png)

vs.

Silver Samurai (KYTRIGGER) bio (http://www.mutanthigh.com/silversamurai.html)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_Silver-Samurai.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=Silver-Samurai.jpg)

okay, Interesting match here. We have the badass Silver Samurai vs. Power Princess, Marvel's take on Wonder Woman.

First, let's set the record staright. Yes, Power Princess is basically just a rip-off of Wonder Woman, but she is nowhere near as powerful as Wonder Woman. Power Princess has super strength, but can only lift about 20 tons. She has enhanced durability, but it goes just short of bullets harming her The only thing that she has over Wonder Woman is that she is taller (she's 6'8) and I don't se that being a real big advantage (unless they competing in the WNBA).

Silver Samurai can teleport, and can create an energy field around his sword (other thigns too but usually his sword) that allows it to cut through almost anything. Along with this he has of course amazing skill at martial arts and usinga sword. Basically he's like a Jedi that can teleport.

Prep teim wise, I don't knwo who would be at an advantage. Power Princes has been on Earth 616 befoer and has fough with/against the Avengers so is is known. At the same time, Silver Samurai is well known as well. Both I am suere have very good databases of knowledge on super powered people so both can get info on each other.

Another thing that can come into play is the location. If Subterranea is one thing, it is dark. Hardly any light at all. While you might think that woudl affect both contestants, it woudln't be nearly as harmful to Silver Samurai. Why? Because he's a ninja! He has mastered many martial art forms over the years of both Japan and China, and I am sure Ninjutsu would be one of those forms.

Basically he would take advantage of teh darkness to get a surprise attack on Power Princess. He knows she is much stronger than him so he won't waste time, he'll want to end the fight quickly. He'll also have no qualms about killing her. He'll know that she is a warrior too and that death is the greatest honor he can give her in battle. And even though she has enhanced endurance, if she can be hurt by a bullet, then she can be cut by his sword.

Winner-Silver Samurai

[Harlekin]

OPENING COMMENTS: Gravitron vs Zaran

I think that, in this case, we need to be realistic. In the end Zaran is a normal man with excellent skills in use of weaponry. Beyond that, he's just an ordinary merc. Gravitron is in a whole other league, being a good thread for the Thunderbolts, the Avengers, as well as the Thunderbolts AND the Avengers. As quoted from the marvel.com site, his powers are:

Frank Hall has the superhuman ability to control gravitation. His power is so great as to nearly be immeasurable. He can increase and decrease gravity to a nearly unlimited number of objects at the same time, even while distracted. He has proven to control the gravity around objects of any mass, even particles of energy and objects slightly out of phase with reality. He can cause enough force to hold down the Asgardian god Thor. He can also form gravitic force bolts and force fields.

I'd usually go into a full explanation of the ways Zaran may try to defeat Gravitron anyway, but I'd just come to the same conclusion each and every time. He'd get his ass beat damn hard.

WINNER=GRAVITRON

[Phaedrus45]

Just for clarification, Planet Hulk cannot be used in this contest. This is Hulk prior to the Planet Hulk storyline.

[Ahura Mazda]

Just for clarification, Planet Hulk cannot be used in this contest. This is Hulk prior to the Planet Hulk storyline.


I would just like to refer you to your answer when I asked you that in the discussion thread.

Yeah, Savage Hulk would be very similiar to the Planet Hulk version.

Have you changed your mind?

[Zoken]

Um... La Lunatika hits him over the head with a frying pan? seriously! Game over man, no way she can beat the Hulk if he isn't an uncontrollable behmoth fueled by frenzied emotions.

[Phaedrus45]

Power Princess-Exiles vs. Silver Samurai:

This seems like a one-sided match, and that's exactly what it is. Here is a list of each character's powers.

Power Princess:

AbilitiesFlight
Invulnerability
Superhuman strength and speed
Does not age
Over 500 years of combat experience

An even better bio is here, http://www.marvel.com/universe/Power_Princess_(Earth-712, and it states:

Powers Superhuman strength allowing her to lift twenty tons. Zarda is resistant to conventional injury which falls just short of making her bulletproof. Zarda also ages at a much slower rate then normal humans and is highly resistant to diseases. Zarda also has superhuman speed, stamina, agility, and reflexes. Abilities Experienced hand-to-hand combatant, acrobat, and experienced discus thrower Weapons Zarda wields a transparent circular shield which is composed of an unnamed substance which is virtually indestructible and in some as yet undisclosed manner provides lift and propulsion to enable her to fly while in contact with it. the shield allows Zarda to fly at subsonic speeds. Paraphernalia Zarda wears bracelets and armbands both arms; the pair on the left arm attach to Zarda's shield while flying. Zarda occasionally wears golden or purple battle armor made of a steel alloy. Zarda's battle armor was crafted by Tom Thumb (http://www.marvel.com/universe/Thumb%2C_Tom_%28Earth-712%29). Power Princess has also used a Utopian underwater pressure suit.


Silver Samurai:

Silver Samurai, the illegitimate son of Shingen Yashida, has the power to channel energy through his sword, allowing it to cut through almost anything.

Also:

AbilitiesChannel mutant energy into anything, most commonly a sword, to create a tachyon field capable of cutting anything except adamantium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adamantium_%28comics%29)
-Teleportation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teleportation) ring


So, let's talk location and knowledge of the other character. There isn't anything that suggests that Silver Samurai would know anything about Power Princess, as she's not from the 616. But, Power Princess would know everything about Silver Samurai and the location, simply for the fact that she has access to the Panoptichron. Power Princess will know all of Silver Samurai's secrets and history, and use it to her advantage. While the sword can cut through almost anything, it would do little good in this match. Power Princess might be vulnerable, but her shield isn't. Plus, with flight, Power Princess can stay out of reach.

Now, Silver Samurai is an expert fighter; but, even Power Princess surpasses him in this field, with over 500 years of combat experience. In fact, I ask to readers to think about all the appearances of Silver Samurai that they might have read. How many times does he come out victorious? Very rarely.

Simply put, when your opponent knows everything about you, has more experience and knowledge at her disposal, you are at a complete disadvantage.

Winner = Power Princess

[Phaedrus45]

Have you changed your mind?

Well, as it says, "very similiar," but it doesn't say it is the Planet Hulk version. Planet Hulk is an ongoing storyline, and cannot be used. Basically, we were letting everyone know there are many versions of the Hulk, and that intelligence-wise, he's "very similiar" to the Planet Hulk version.

[Phaedrus45]

Marvel's take on Wonder Woman.

To me, it's more Marvel's take on the DC characters, and what would happen if they used their powers to exert control over the world. But, all the talk about her similarities, or lack of, are really a mute point. They have no relevance to this match.

She has enhanced durability, but it goes just short of bullets harming her The only thing that she has over Wonder Woman is that she is taller (she's 6'8) and I don't se that being a real big advantage (unless they competing in the WNBA).

The use of putting down my character's abilities fail to acknowledge her shield, "which is composed of an unnamed substance which is virtually indestructible." Plus, there are many of her abilities, like flight, which you fail to mention. (In fact, "the shield allows Zarda to fly at subsonic speeds.") What about the mention of her 500 years of combat experience or that she's an "experienced discus thrower," which would help to lob off Silver Samurai's head before he had a chance to get near her.

Silver Samurai can teleport, and can create an energy field around his sword (other thigns too but usually his sword) that allows it to cut through almost anything. Along with this he has of course amazing skill at martial arts and usinga sword. Basically he's like a Jedi that can teleport.

A jedi??!!?? This is clearly a different Silver Samurai than I've been reading over the years. Silver Samurai has consistently shown that he can easily be defeated. I also want to point out that Silver Samurai's sense of honor would not have him teleport away from a fight. He prides himself in not being a coward, and he wouldn't run from a fight.

Prep teim wise, I don't knwo who would be at an advantage. Power Princes has been on Earth 616 befoer and has fough with/against the Avengers so is is known. At the same time, Silver Samurai is well known as well. Both I am suere have very good databases of knowledge on super powered people so both can get info on each other.

As I mentioned in my opening debate, Power Princess rules prep-time, and even you'd need to acknowledge this fact. Silver Samurai would not have access to the Avenger's database, and since he doesn't even reside in the states, would have no knowledge of Power Princess. The few times Power Princess has been to the 616, that would end up being classified Avenger's information, and I doubt Silver Samurai would know that. There paths have never crossed. If Power Princess wasn't the Exiles version, then she would have the same handicap...but, the simple fact is that she has access to the Panoptichron, and she'd know everything about Silver Samurai and the location.

Another thing that can come into play is the location. If Subterranea is one thing, it is dark. Hardly any light at all. While you might think that woudl affect both contestants, it woudln't be nearly as harmful to Silver Samurai. Why? Because he's a ninja! He has mastered many martial art forms over the years of both Japan and China, and I am sure Ninjutsu would be one of those forms.

Yeah, it's dark...but, Power Princess has flight, which means Silver Samurai would have no chance of getting off the first blow. Also, Silver Samurai has never been the master of stealth. I just ask the voters to look at his costume. It's bright and shiny silver. It's clangs when you walk. This is clearly not someone who will "hide in the shadows." Plus, I will point out that one thing Silver Samurai does have is a sense of honor. He won't stab someone in the back, much less another warrior. He's more likely to meet them face-to-face. (This is not who Power Princess is, though. She'll take him out any means necessary.)



Basically he would take advantage of teh darkness to get a surprise attack on Power Princess. He knows she is much stronger than him so he won't waste time, he'll want to end the fight quickly. He'll also have no qualms about killing her. He'll know that she is a warrior too and that death is the greatest honor he can give her in battle. And even though she has enhanced endurance, if she can be hurt by a bullet, then she can be cut by his sword.

He wouldn't (and couldn't, as explained above) take advantage of the darkness. He would "surprise attack" her, because it goes against his sense of honor. He wouldn't know a thing about my character. Plus, he wouldn't know about her shield, and how it will not be cut by his sword.

Meanwhile, as I've pointed out, Power Princess will have full knowledge of her opponent and location. She'll have flight. (And, just in case you want to point out we are in caves, I'll point out that in the comics, these caves are giagantic in size. Just thinking back to the Fantastic Four exploring them, they always mentioned how huge the caves were.) Silver Samurai won't know who he's fighting or her abilities. He doesn't have 500 years of combat experience. Simply put, Silver Samurai is outclassed in every way.

Winner = Power Princess-Exiles

[kytrigger]

To me, it's more Marvel's take on the DC characters, and what would happen if they used their powers to exert control over the world. But, all the talk about her similarities, or lack of, are really a mute point. They have no relevance to this match. Except fo rhte fact that if anyone has even heard of Power Princess, the first thing that comes to most people's minds is "a lot like Wonder Woman". Taht's why I included the reference and started to point out differences. It might be a mute point in the actualy battle strategy, but not a mute point when you take into account the people that are reading this.

The use of putting down my character's abilities fail to acknowledge her shield, "which is composed of an unnamed substance which is virtually indestructible." Plus, there are many of her abilities, like flight, which you fail to mention. (In fact, "the shield allows Zarda to fly at subsonic speeds.") What about the mention of her 500 years of combat experience or that she's an "experienced discus thrower," which would help to lob off Silver Samurai's head before he had a chance to get near her. okay, her shield is virtually indestructable. His blade can cut through virtually anything so it could go either way.. Yes, I failed to mention flight, and you failed to mention that while she is flying through these caverns, she won't be able to see anything. There is almost no light in the caverns, and even though they are extremely large, flying at subsonic speeds in the dark might be the worst thing she could do. Maybe I should change my strategy to just having Silver Samurai stand and do nothing and just wait for her to fly into a wall and knock herself out.

Also, throwing a discus or anything else is going to be almost impossible as well (for both) seeing as how neither will be able to see much of anything.

A jedi??!!?? This is clearly a different Silver Samurai than I've been reading over the years. Silver Samurai has consistently shown that he can easily be defeated. I also want to point out that Silver Samurai's sense of honor would not have him teleport away from a fight. He prides himself in not being a coward, and he wouldn't run from a fight. And you can't just chalk up his defeats in the comics and say that is how the fight would go. If that were the case I would say that Power Princess would just fall in love with Silver samurai and give up to be with him because "that is what she does".
I also never said he would teleport away from a fight. I agree that he wouldn't do that because of his honor. He can however teleport closer to her, or to a different location just as close to her. Remember, she can't see where the hell he'll be going, but He will know where he is teleporting too.


As I mentioned in my opening debate, Power Princess rules prep-time, and even you'd need to acknowledge this fact. Silver Samurai would not have access to the Avenger's database, and since he doesn't even reside in the states, would have no knowledge of Power Princess. The few times Power Princess has been to the 616, that would end up being classified Avenger's information, and I doubt Silver Samurai would know that. There paths have never crossed. If Power Princess wasn't the Exiles version, then she would have the same handicap...but, the simple fact is that she has access to the Panoptichron, and she'd know everything about Silver Samurai and the location. I didn't say she wouldn't have any knowledge of him. And I might be wrong, but I thought that Silver Samurai had allied himself with HYDRA since he's been back? I know they met with him (I think in New Avengers). If he has indeed become allies with HYDRA, then I would think their database would have her in it form the time she was on Earth 616.

Yeah, it's dark...but, Power Princess has flight, which means Silver Samurai would have no chance of getting off the first blow. Also, Silver Samurai has never been the master of stealth. I just ask the voters to look at his costume. It's bright and shiny silver. It's clangs when you walk. This is clearly not someone who will "hide in the shadows." Plus, I will point out that one thing Silver Samurai does have is a sense of honor. He won't stab someone in the back, much less another warrior. He's more likely to meet them face-to-face. (This is not who Power Princess is, though. She'll take him out any means necessary.)
Once again, flight + not being able to see does not equal any type of advantage. As for the stealth part, I have only ever seen him fight in daylight. While I agree that the armor isn't best used for stealth, he can take it off. This isn't some magically attached armor or anything. He has been shown a numbe rof times with it off. When he sees he is in almost complete darkenss, he will see that his best offense strategy is to use the darkness to his advantage. He'll remove the armor.

Also, I agree that he won't just stab Power Princess in the back, but that won't keep him from ending the fight that way. He has a teleporter ring and has used it in combat before without his honor stopping him, and he would do so again.

As for Power Princess not caring about honor, I don't know. I feel she would being a Utopian and since she has been a warrior so long, but that is my opinion. I doubt I could change yours, it's one of those tings that is left up to the voters (unless you can provide an example of her doing something dishonorable to attain victory, then I would concede it).

All those extra advantages you mentioned are pretty much pointless as I've stated above. What this fight comes down to is:

A woman with a strength advantage, a tough shield, and is extremely good at fighting
vs. A man that is physically overpowered but has teleportation and can use the darkness to his advantage, and a sword that can cut through almost anything.

Like I said earlier, I am not sure if his sword could cut through her shield (it would actually be interesting to see) but if it doesn't, he can teleport around her and strike her from teh side or back (which is still honorable since they are already engaged in combat).

Winner-Silver Samurai

[Phaedrus45]

okay, her shield is virtually indestructable. His blade can cut through virtually anything so it could go either way.. Yes, I failed to mention flight, and you failed to mention that while she is flying through these caverns, she won't be able to see anything. There is almost no light in the caverns, and even though they are extremely large, flying at subsonic speeds in the dark might be the worst thing she could do. Maybe I should change my strategy to just having Silver Samurai stand and do nothing and just wait for her to fly into a wall and knock herself out.

But, if you've noticed all the times we've seen subterranea in the comics, there has never been any problem with seeing what's in front of you. (After all, we're not going to have a bunch of Marvel characters fighting in pitch black locations. That would make the entire week's battle's totally different than anything we've ever done.) Plus, Power Princess will know about many of these caves with information she'd find in the Panoptichron.

Also, throwing a discus or anything else is going to be almost impossible as well (for both) seeing as how neither will be able to see much of anything.

Again, I've never seen Marvel heroes have trouble seeing around them in Subterranea.

And you can't just chalk up his defeats in the comics and say that is how the fight would go. If that were the case I would say that Power Princess would just fall in love with Silver samurai and give up to be with him because "that is what she does".

But, you can say that a voter can look at who a character is in comics and what they've accomplished, and that past behavior is indicitive of future results. Just like with Silver Samurai's code of honor and knowing he has never been one to hide in the shadows, or would be able to hide in the shadows.

I also never said he would teleport away from a fight. I agree that he wouldn't do that because of his honor. He can however teleport closer to her, or to a different location just as close to her. Remember, she can't see where the hell he'll be going, but He will know where he is teleporting too.

That will do little good if she's up in the air flying around. (She doesn't have to fly at subsonic speeds either.) If he teleports closer, he falls to the ground dead. Plus, while I'm thinking about it, you mentioned that Power Princess " can only lift about 20 tons," like it's some small accomplishment. Imagine a 20 ton boulder falling on Silver Samurai from above. SPLAT!!! Silver Splat is his new name. 20 tons, while not on Hulk level, is still a hell of a lot more than Silver Samurai could ever dream of doing.


I might be wrong, but I thought that Silver Samurai had allied himself with HYDRA since he's been back? I know they met with him (I think in New Avengers). If he has indeed become allies with HYDRA, then I would think their database would have her in it form the time she was on Earth 616.

Silver Samurai has aligned with and betrayed many different people and organizations over the years. Here is the most recent information about who he's aligned with:

For a time, for unclear reasons, the Samurai was apprehended in the Raft prison in America, but got freed by Viper and the Hand, who transported him back to Japan. The Hand wanted the Samurai to lead them, but he wasn't interested in a war and even watched the Avengers defeat them. Afterward, he decided to try to earn his good name back by serving the people of Japan once again.

So, he wouldn't have access to Hydra information.

Once again, flight + not being able to see does not equal any type of advantage. As for the stealth part, I have only ever seen him fight in daylight. While I agree that the armor isn't best used for stealth, he can take it off. This isn't some magically attached armor or anything. He has been shown a numbe rof times with it off. When he sees he is in almost complete darkenss, he will see that his best offense strategy is to use the darkness to his advantage. He'll remove the armor.

Now, you've given me even more advantage by having him strip down to his clothing. He's always with his armor, and he'd at least want to be protected. Now, the 20 ton boulder really goes SPLAT. And, this isn't an area where people are walking around in pitch dark. Like with all comic appearances showing the large caverns of subterranea, you can see what's in front of you.

As for Power Princess not caring about honor, I don't know. I feel she would being a Utopian and since she has been a warrior so long, but that is my opinion. I doubt I could change yours, it's one of those tings that is left up to the voters (unless you can provide an example of her doing something dishonorable to attain victory, then I would concede it).

With all that I've read of her, she seems like she'll win by any means necessary.

Again, this contest simply comes down to a guy with a sword and a teleportation ring who wouldn't know much about Power Princess. In almost every regard, Power Princess has the clear advantage. Marvel characters have been shown to be able to see everything around them as they walked these caves and areas within Subterranea, and even if there were dark spots, she could still stay afloat in the air without having to worry about Silver Samurai getting close to her.

Winner = Power Princess

[Phaedrus45]

NOTE:

In finding more information about Power Princess, I came upon another biography that states the following:

Powers and Abilities:
Kree eugenic experiments give her superhuman strength, speed, agility, endurance, reflexes, vision, hearing, and resistance to physical injury, carries a transparent shield for protection which enables her to fly

What you will notice is how it says that Kree eugenic experiments gave her superhuman vision and hearing. This only shows that being able to hide will be a problem for Silver Samurai and her being able to see in the caves will not be as much of a problem as my opponent believes her to be.

[Ahura Mazda]

Well, as it says, "very similiar," but it doesn't say it is the Planet Hulk version. Planet Hulk is an ongoing storyline, and cannot be used. Basically, we were letting everyone know there are many versions of the Hulk, and that intelligence-wise, he's "very similiar" to the Planet Hulk version.


In that case, this is the same Hulk as that is the only thing which is a bit different about him. Power wise he is the same. As uber as ever.

Thank you for the answer.

[Phaedrus45]

In that case, this is the same Hulk as that is the only thing which is a bit different about him. Power wise he is the same. As uber as ever.

Thank you for the answer.

No problem. Just had to make sure the storyline rule was clearly understood with the character.

[kytrigger]

But, if you've noticed all the times we've seen subterranea in the comics, there has never been any problem with seeing what's in front of you. (After all, we're not going to have a bunch of Marvel characters fighting in pitch black locations. That would make the entire week's battle's totally different than anything we've ever done.) Plus, Power Princess will know about many of these caves with information she'd find in the Panoptichron. Well of course you could see it in the comics otherwise it would just be a giant black page :oldrazz: .

I don't see how there could be much light though unless it was brought in from an outside source (like the Fantasticar) or from torches or something electric (like in Moleman's cavern) Also, light would be pretty easy for the Fantastic Four to come by seeing as they have a man that can turn into fire. I honestly don't know because I don't have any of those comics, but unless there is some way for light to actually get in there I would still think it is pretty dark.

And there's nothing wrong with having a match that is completely different than all the other...:woot:

Once again, since I don't believe you could much much at all, I don't think knowing info on the caves would help that much. (Obviously all my objections are pretty much lumped into that whole "it's dark" argument here). It will probably be one of those things that the voter's will have to decide for themselves.

But, you can say that a voter can look at who a character is in comics and what they've accomplished, and that past behavior is indicitive of future results. Just like with Silver Samurai's code of honor and knowing he has never been one to hide in the shadows, or would be able to hide in the shadows. You're right. I do believe the voters will look at both character's defeats and accomplishments. I also thnk that the voter's will look at them objectively enough and see that even though Silver Samurai has been beaten many times, he isn't a imbecile. He actually knows how to fight, is rather smart at battle tactics, and should be considered extremely dangerous.


That will do little good if she's up in the air flying around. (She doesn't have to fly at subsonic speeds either.) If he teleports closer, he falls to the ground dead. Plus, while I'm thinking about it, you mentioned that Power Princess " can only lift about 20 tons," like it's some small accomplishment. Imagine a 20 ton boulder falling on Silver Samurai from above. SPLAT!!! Silver Splat is his new name. 20 tons, while not on Hulk level, is still a hell of a lot more than Silver Samurai could ever dream of doing. Well I still think that flying in almost absolute darkness is a bad idea and she won't really use it. Also, you misunderstood my part about the teleportation. Since I don't think she would be in the air, he could teleport closer to her and wouldn't have to worry about falling to his death.

And yes, 20 tons is much more than silver samurai could ever lift. I was simply stating it to defend against a possible future argument of her being able to punch everything and bring whole caverns down. (I put it in because I have another debate with someone where that is actually part of there strategy, but the character is much stronger than Power Princess). But once again, I don't think throwing things would be of much help becasue of the whole darkness thing (shocking i know).


Silver Samurai has aligned with and betrayed many different people and organizations over the years. Here is the most recent information about who he's aligned with:
For a time, for unclear reasons, the Samurai was apprehended in the Raft prison in America, but got freed by Viper and the Hand, who transported him back to Japan. The Hand wanted the Samurai to lead them, but he wasn't interested in a war and even watched the Avengers defeat them. Afterward, he decided to try to earn his good name back by serving the people of Japan once again.
So, he wouldn't have access to Hydra information. okay, I'll concede that he probably wouldn't be able to get any info on her before hand then. (I knew he had dealt with HYDRA and the Hand recently, I just couldn't remember the rest of the story)

Thankfully, this doesn't change much. While he won't know about her strength in the beginning, once he knows that the woman is 6'8 he will be able to safely assume that she's strong as hell. I know I would.

Now, you've given me even more advantage by having him strip down to his clothing. He's always with his armor, and he'd at least want to be protected. Now, the 20 ton boulder really goes SPLAT. And, this isn't an area where people are walking around in pitch dark. Like with all comic appearances showing the large caverns of subterranea, you can see what's in front of you.How is him taking off his armor more of an advantage? You've already stated that she is much stronger than him. Whether he is wearing the armor or not, if she gets a hold of him, he's going down. He might as well be more agile adn a hell of a lot more stealthy instead. No matter what he does, she will be able to overpower him, so instead he will increase his other attributes to help compensate for this (I'm sure there is somethign like this in the Art of War).

Again, this contest simply comes down to a guy with a sword and a teleportation ring who wouldn't know much about Power Princess. In almost every regard, Power Princess has the clear advantage. Marvel characters have been shown to be able to see everything around them as they walked these caves and areas within Subterranea, and even if there were dark spots, she could still stay afloat in the air without having to worry about Silver Samurai getting close to her. I won't go into the whoel darkness thing again, but you do mention that she could float above him even it it were dark. While it's true it would be hard for him to hurt her form there, she couldn't hurt him back either (asuming it is dark)

Winner- Silver Samurai

[kytrigger]

NOTE:

In finding more information about Power Princess, I came upon another biography that states the following:

Powers and Abilities:
Kree eugenic experiments give her superhuman strength, speed, agility, endurance, reflexes, vision, hearing, and resistance to physical injury, carries a transparent shield for protection which enables her to fly

What you will notice is how it says that Kree eugenic experiments gave her superhuman vision and hearing. This only shows that being able to hide will be a problem for Silver Samurai and her being able to see in the caves will not be as much of a problem as my opponent believes her to be.

It doesn't say that her vision can see in different spectrums of light or anything though. If she can just see farther, then it doesn't really affect anything. If there is no light, then you can't see no matter how good your vision is. (once again the darkness argument :woot: )

As for the hearing, I see that as more of a disadvantage for her than anything. She has super hearing in a giant cave system that most likely echoes like none other. That like putting a bullhorn right next to the ears of Daredevil.

While that is obviously an extreme version, I just threw it in to show that super hearing isn't always an advantage. While I doubt the echoes would actually hurt her (like the Daredevil thing) It would definately mess with her if she tried to listen for footsteps or anything.

[Hellstormer]

BRACKET 2,

Match 15:

Archangel (ICEMAN/PSYLOCKE) bio (http://www.mutanthigh.com/archangel.html)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_archangel1.gif (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=archangel1.gif)

vs.

Metarchus (HELLSTORMER) bio (http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/metarc.htm)

(photo unavailable)

Angels' screwed Metarchus, from what her bio says, gains all the physical characteristics of the monster she morphs to, if she morphs to a banshee she'll be able to fly and release sonic screams which would completely destroy the frail old angel or diorient him and when that's finish she'll morph into a werewolf and go savage on him. He's done.

Winner=Metarchus

[Phaedrus45]

I don't see how there could be much light though unless it was brought in from an outside source (like the Fantasticar) or from torches or something electric (like in Moleman's cavern) Also, light would be pretty easy for the Fantastic Four to come by seeing as they have a man that can turn into fire. I honestly don't know because I don't have any of those comics, but unless there is some way for light to actually get in there I would still think it is pretty dark.

And there's nothing wrong with having a match that is completely different than all the other...:woot:

Once again, since I don't believe you could much much at all, I don't think knowing info on the caves would help that much. (Obviously all my objections are pretty much lumped into that whole "it's dark" argument here). It will probably be one of those things that the voter's will have to decide for themselves.

Again, I'll just point out that all appearances I have read involving Subterranea, which have actually been quite a few times, people don't seem to have trouble navigating the caves. Of course, this is comics, so it would be ridiculous to have a pitch dark cave your heroes and villians cannot see in. But, this is a comics contest, and reality is thrown out the window. We can only go with how we've seen the place described in comics. And, from what I've seen, the Fantastic Four, the Avengers, the West Coast Avengers, and Spider-Man have all been able to see fine in the caves. If this wasn't the case, pretty much everyone this week would have to rethink their battle stategies.

You're right. I do believe the voters will look at both character's defeats and accomplishments. I also thnk that the voter's will look at them objectively enough and see that even though Silver Samurai has been beaten many times, he isn't a imbecile. He actually knows how to fight, is rather smart at battle tactics, and should be considered extremely dangerous.

No, I don't think he's an embecile. I just think his sense of honor and his misguided judgement is his downfall, usually. Also, his previous appearances will show that he's not one to hide in the shadows and sneak around.


Well I still think that flying in almost absolute darkness is a bad idea and she won't really use it. Also, you misunderstood my part about the teleportation. Since I don't think she would be in the air, he could teleport closer to her and wouldn't have to worry about falling to his death.

It would be more ridiculous an idea to walk around in a cave when you know your opponent has a potential weapon that could harm you. She will know everything about Silver Samurai, and bumping into a wall wouldn't bother her. She's practically immune to pain. Power Princess is very logical, and logic says to stay airborne.

And yes, 20 tons is much more than silver samurai could ever lift. I was simply stating it to defend against a possible future argument of her being able to punch everything and bring whole caverns down. (I put it in because I have another debate with someone where that is actually part of there strategy, but the character is much stronger than Power Princess). But once again, I don't think throwing things would be of much help becasue of the whole darkness thing (shocking i know).

Well, she does have advanced eyesight and hearing...so, I think she'd be able to throw just fine. And, if not, dropping a big boulder on him would be sufficient.


How is him taking off his armor more of an advantage? You've already stated that she is much stronger than him. Whether he is wearing the armor or not, if she gets a hold of him, he's going down. He might as well be more agile adn a hell of a lot more stealthy instead. No matter what he does, she will be able to overpower him, so instead he will increase his other attributes to help compensate for this (I'm sure there is somethign like this in the Art of War).

I'd gladly take him without his armor...I just think it's unlikely. Without his armor, he doesn't have much defense for his body, and all Power Princess has to do is cause a cave-in, and he's done for. (If she can lift 20 tons, she can cause many rocks from the cave ceiling to fall on him.)

I won't go into the whoel darkness thing again, but you do mention that she could float above him even it it were dark. While it's true it would be hard for him to hurt her form there, she couldn't hurt him back either (asuming it is dark)

She could do plenty damage from above. Just see my explanation above.

Winner = Power Princess

[Iceman]

OPENING DEBATE: ARCHANGEL Vs METARCHUS

In my opinion Archangel is the weaker character here and Metarchus would most likely progress further than his opponent in this competition if he were to win this match.


Metarchus would know of the X-Man Archangel but would not know a great deal more than that the character can fly. Given the location, he will not consider a flyer to be any threat whatsoever and will consider the match a waste of time.

On the other hand Angel, using the resources of the X-Men or those available to him through his persona as the billionaire Warren Worthington and through his company Worthington Enterprises will be able to find the basic information he needs.

Having discovered the nature of his opponent, he will realise there is a chance of victory and that chance lies within his blood. There is every possibility that the healing properties transferable through his blood could well prove fatal to his opponent.

With this knowledge he can prepare vials of his own blood during his day of prep time to use as weapons (hurling will be sufficient although that old school bazooka could make for a glorious victory here :woot:). He can call up Metarchus and similar villains from the Danger Room memory banks and test out his plans using the industry leading labs of his company until he is succesful.

WINNER = ARCHANGEL

[Hellstormer]

Actually I think the only way he could get info is through is Defender's clearence not X-Man or his resources because Metarchus is a mystic being.

Rebuttal

OPENING DEBATE: ARCHANGEL Vs METARCHUS

Metarchus would know of the X-Man Archangel but would not know a great deal more than that the character can fly. Given the location, he will not consider a flyer to be any threat whatsoever and will consider the match a waste of time. True but just because he goes in thinking that doesn't mean he won't change his strategy to fit the circumstances.


With this knowledge he can prepare vials of his own blood during his day of prep time to use as weapons (hurling will be sufficient although that old school bazooka could make for a glorious victory here :woot:). He can call up Metarchus and similar villains from the Danger Room memory banks and test out his plans using the industry leading labs of his company until he is succesful.

Meta isn't stupid after he gets hit with one of theose vials he'll turn into something with a hard exterior shell and then try to dig into the tunnels to limit Warren's flying. Now Warren won't be stupid enough to follow but if Meta can positon himself above Warren he can bust through the dirt turn into a golem and just land on him and if he should dodge Meta can turn into a Colossus so he has a good armor shell; against tghe blood and then just rip out Warren's throat.

Winner=Metachus

[kytrigger]

Again, I'll just point out that all appearances I have read involving Subterranea, which have actually been quite a few times, people don't seem to have trouble navigating the caves. Of course, this is comics, so it would be ridiculous to have a pitch dark cave your heroes and villians cannot see in. But, this is a comics contest, and reality is thrown out the window. We can only go with how we've seen the place described in comics. And, from what I've seen, the Fantastic Four, the Avengers, the West Coast Avengers, and Spider-Man have all been able to see fine in the caves. If this wasn't the case, pretty much everyone this week would have to rethink their battle stategies. I understand that, but if you use the whole "reality is thrown out " scenario, I could say that they brought in external lighting (like Fantasticar, or even just Iron Man and Human Torch etc.) that we just didn't see. It could honestly go both ways. To tell you the truth, I highly doubt either of us is going to waver on this part, and we are pretty much just repeating ourselves so I was thinking that this might be our last rebuttal (unless one of us brings up any new info of course.)


No, I don't think he's an embecile. I just think his sense of honor and his misguided judgement is his downfall, usually. Also, his previous appearances will show that he's not one to hide in the shadows and sneak around. Well, it's good you don't think he's a complete idiot, because it does seem that most people think he is. And while he has never been shown to hide in the shadows, you also have to remember that the majority of his battles we've seen are against Wolverine, who he has a very...deep...history with. He would want Logan to know he is being attacked and beaten by Silver Samurai, it's a psychological thing. This is different since he has never met Power Princess so he carries no "emotional baggage" with him.


[/quote]Well, she does have advanced eyesight and hearing...so, I think she'd be able to throw just fine. And, if not, dropping a big boulder on him would be sufficient.[/quote] I talked about this earlier. Once again my whole darkness angle stops the eyesight thing, and the hearing is also non-problematic due to the echoes in the cave. (I went inot more detail earlier).


I'd gladly take him without his armor...I just think it's unlikely. Without his armor, he doesn't have much defense for his body, and all Power Princess has to do is cause a cave-in, and he's done for. (If she can lift 20 tons, she can cause many rocks from the cave ceiling to fall on him.) A cave in wouldn't work, unless she was plannign on caving in the entire subterranea (which she coudln't do). Remember he can just teleport to a different area. He could even stay in the same cavern and teleport around since they are so big that she couldn't even cave-in one of the caverns. She would also have to worry about caving herself in too.



Winner-Silver Samurai

[Phaedrus45]

I understand that, but if you use the whole "reality is thrown out " scenario, I could say that they brought in external lighting (like Fantasticar, or even just Iron Man and Human Torch etc.) that we just didn't see. It could honestly go both ways. To tell you the truth, I highly doubt either of us is going to waver on this part, and we are pretty much just repeating ourselves so I was thinking that this might be our last rebuttal (unless one of us brings up any new info of course.)

But, even if it was pitch black in the caverns, don't you think those characters with resources would make sure they have a light source on their person before their 24 hour preptime is finished? To me, Power Princess would have a means to see in the dark if it was that way.

Well, it's good you don't think he's a complete idiot, because it does seem that most people think he is. And while he has never been shown to hide in the shadows, you also have to remember that the majority of his battles we've seen are against Wolverine, who he has a very...deep...history with. He would want Logan to know he is being attacked and beaten by Silver Samurai, it's a psychological thing. This is different since he has never met Power Princess so he carries no "emotional baggage" with him.

But, from what I've read, Silver Samurai, while not an idiot, does carry "emotional baggage" that is brought about from the environment in which he was raised. He's simply not able to emotionally let go of his sense of honor.


A cave in wouldn't work, unless she was plannign on caving in the entire subterranea (which she coudln't do). Remember he can just teleport to a different area. He could even stay in the same cavern and teleport around since they are so big that she couldn't even cave-in one of the caverns. She would also have to worry about caving herself in too.

But, he has to know where he's going and twist his ring. And, she doesn't have to cave in the entire area, she just has to make sure part of the ceiling will fall on him. (Plus, if we subscribe to your beliefs that the caverns are so dark, he wouldn't be able to really see where he's teleporting to, and it would be too dangerous to teleport very far. Thus, that part of his powers is severly hindered.)



Winner = Power Princess

[kytrigger]

But, from what I've read, Silver Samurai, while not an idiot, does carry "emotional baggage" that is brought about from the environment in which he was raised. He's simply not able to emotionally let go of his sense of honor. Well, he has done things that have crossed the line of what we (or at least I) would think of honor. Like the time he watched Logan be attacked by others, and then when Logan was down, attacked him. It's obvious that while Silver Samurai does indeed hold his ohonor in high regard, it is somewhat skewed.


But, he has to know where he's going and twist his ring. And, she doesn't have to cave in the entire area, she just has to make sure part of the ceiling will fall on him. (Plus, if we subscribe to your beliefs that the caverns are so dark, he wouldn't be able to really see where he's teleporting to, and it would be too dangerous to teleport very far. Thus, that part of his powers is severly hindered.) He doesn't have to teleport far. These caverns are huge and he knows that. He could teleport to a place he has already been in the caverns, or worst case scenario, I think he would teleport to somewhere he doesn't know too well and take his chances as opposed to not teleporting and being certainly crushed. Also, he wouldn't always have to teleport. I didn't mean to make it sound like he would. In most csaes if it was just a rock or boulder, he would most likely just dodge it regularly. He would only teleport if he had no other way of escaping the rocks.

[Iceman]

Actually I think the only way he could get info is through is Defender's clearence not X-Man or his resources because Metarchus is a mystic being.

Rebuttal

True but just because he goes in thinking that doesn't mean he won't change his strategy to fit the circumstances.


Meta isn't stupid after he gets hit with one of theose vials he'll turn into something with a hard exterior shell and then try to dig into the tunnels to limit Warren's flying. Now Warren won't be stupid enough to follow but if Meta can positon himself above Warren he can bust through the dirt turn into a golem and just land on him and if he should dodge Meta can turn into a Colossus so he has a good armor shell; against tghe blood and then just rip out Warren's throat.

Winner=MetachusAll Worthington really needs to find out is the nature of creature that Metarchus is to know that his blood will be lethal to him/it. Knowledge of Metarchus' abilities is not vital as the creature admittedly outclasses him in most ways very easily.

Archangel knows he has only one possible way of winning this so when he hits the unsuspecting Metarchus with a vial of his blood, there is no way he is stopping to let the thing recover/escape. He will unload every last drop he is carrying (hopefully this includes at least a bazooka full :word:) until Metarchus goes down.

I agree with you that if Archangel gives Metarchus an opening that this is a one way trip to Hell for him and the tactics you've described above (among others) would work.

WINNER = ARCHANGEL

[Phaedrus45]

Voting May Begin!

[Harlekin]

Gravitron
Power Princess - Great debate though.
Metarchus
Savage Hulk

[Phaedrus45]

*Gravitron

*Power Princess

*Metarchus

*Savage Hulk - (Bad luck of the draw. By bringing out his repressed memories, you only make Hulk stronger and more angry. Of course, Hulk wouldn't have battle armor, as that hasn't happened yet.)

[kytrigger]

Gravitron
Silver Samurai
Metarchus
Savage Hulk

[hippy fascist]

Gravitron
Power Princess
Metarchus
Savage Hulk

[hippy fascist]

Results so far:

Gravitron currently beating Zaran 4-0
Power Princess currently beating Silver samurai 3-1
Metarchus currently beating Archangel 4-0
Savage Hulk currently beating La Lunatica 4-0

Is it ok to do this? Just figured I'd help out :up:

[Phaedrus45]

Yep, that's fine. Just take the highlights off the current leader's name. While votes are coming in, I don't want one name to stand out more than another. And, make sure you have a decent amount of votes, at least 3 or 4, come in before updating again.

[wiegeabo]

Gravitron
Power Princess (although Samurai would make this a really good fight)
Metarchus
Savage Hulk

[Hellstormer]

Metarchus (That last minute debate was sneaky:ninja: but it still won't help :p)

Hulk (Seeing one sided matches like this gives me no hope on my Moon KNight/Photon debate I'm working my ass off on.:()

Gravitron (He took down the whackos once, and Zaran is just a man unlike Moon Knight who is an avatar of a god who could easily defeat Photon.:D)

Silver Samurai (Difficult at first I thought Power Princess then I read the debates and was swayed.)

[Ahura Mazda]

Metarchus - I think had more options available to her

Hulk - Looking forward to the next round

Gravitron - too much power

Silver Samurai - His teleportation power with a sword could lead to cut torso but I must admit I am 51/49 on this so really not certain of my vote

[hippy fascist]

Results so far:

Gravitron currently beating Zaran 7-0
Power Princess currently beating Silver samurai 4-3
Metarchus currently beating Archangel 7-0
Savage Hulk currently beating La Lunatica 7-0

[JewishHobbit]

Gravitron
Silver Samurai
Metarchus
La Lunatica - I know I'm alone, but I really think she can do it.

[Zoken]

Gravitron
Power Princess
Metarchus
Savage Hulk

[Darren Daring]

Gravitron
Power Princess
Metarchus
Savage Hulk

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Grav
Power
Meta
La

[Phaedrus45]

Results so far:

Gravitron currently beating Zaran 11-0
Power Princess currently beating Silver samurai 7-4
Metarchus currently beating Archangel 11-0
Savage Hulk currently beating La Lunatica 9-2

[Darthphere]

Gravitron
Power Princess
Metarchus
Savage Hulk

[Midnight Ice]

Gravitron
Power Princess
Metarchus
Savage Hulk

[Phaedrus45]

bump

[Trigger]

Gravitron
Power Princess
Metarchus
Savage Hulk

[Iceman]

Metarchus - even though Angel is my character, he has no chance in Hell (particularly in Hell) of winning this, especially in this damned location
Savage Hulk - I look forward to reading of the exploits of this character in future rounds (I like a lot of the character's Ahura has landed)
Gravitron
Power Princess

[Hellstormer]

Metarchus - even though Angel is my character, he has no chance in Hell (particularly in Hell) of winning this, especially in this damned location
Savage Hulk - I look forward to reading of the exploits of this character in future rounds (I like a lot of the character's Ahura has landed)
Gravitron
Power Princess
Glad you see things my way. (Yeah he would get owned in hell....hmmm hell. I think that should be our next location.)

[Phaedrus45]

Final Results:

Gravitron beat Zaran 15-0
Power Princess beat Silver samurai 11-4
Metarchus beat Archangel 15-0
Savage Hulk beat La Lunatica 13-2

[Phaedrus45]

At times, I thought I was going to lose this match, Ky. You definitely took a one-sided match and made everyone think long and hard on who to vote for. I'll really be in a tough way when I have to debate you with a much tougher character. If Power Princess didn't have flight, I think all the votes would have went your way.

[Iceman]

Glad you see things my way. (Yeah he would get owned in hell....hmmm hell. I think that should be our next location.)Yeah I knew I was on a loser in this match from Day one of the tournament :woot: Angel's a good character but he's not too hot on the one on ones, especially against someone like Metarchus and the location is a killer for someone who's main ability is flight. The poor boy would literally get ripped to shreds,.. which might be interesting to watch. ;) :csad:

[kytrigger]

At times, I thought I was going to lose this match, Ky. You definitely took a one-sided match and made everyone think long and hard on who to vote for. I'll really be in a tough way when I have to debate you with a much tougher character. If Power Princess didn't have flight, I think all the votes would have went your way.

Yeah, I think I would have had a much closer chance at winning, but you nixed all my far-fetched ideas with good debating making it basically impossible to win. Good match. :up:

[Phaedrus45]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/JewishHobbit/CoM.jpg

BRACKET 1,

Match 17:

Breakdown (HELLSTORMER) bio (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/archive/index.php/t-1285.html)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/Breakdown.jpg

vs.

Tana Nile (PHAEDRUS45) bio (http://www.immortalthor.net/bio-tananile.html)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_bio-tananile.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=bio-tananile.jpg)

Match 18:

Madison Jeffries - Weapon X (MIDNIGHT ICE) bio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madison_Jeffries)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_madisonjeffries.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=madisonjeffries.jpg)

vs.

Delilah (HELLSTORMER) bio (http://www.spiderfan.org/characters/delilah.html)

http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/949/delilahby3.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)

[Phaedrus45]

BRACKET 2,

Match 17:

Spider-Man 2099 (HELLSTORMER) bio (http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/spiderman2099.htm)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_250px-Sman2099.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=250px-Sman2099.jpg)[/URL]

vs.

Frankie Raye (PHAEDRUS45) [URL="http://www.marvel.com/universe/Nova_(Frankie_Raye)"]bio (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=Jocasta.jpg)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_12v3.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=12v3.jpg)

Match 18:

Northstar - Agent of Hydra (MIDNIGHT ICE) bio (http://www.mutanthigh.com/northstar.html)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_northstar1.gif (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=northstar1.gif)

vs.

Doorman (ZOKEN) bio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doorman_(comics))

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_225px-Doorman.png (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=225px-Doorman.png)

[Phaedrus45]

Location: Battleworld (Beyond's Secret War Planet)

Battle World is an assemblage of various planets that have been pieced together. It has a wide variety of terrain and wildlife, as well as several sentient races that call it home.

Also from wiki:

Battleworld was an artificial planet created by the extradimensional Beyonder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyonder) for his contest of good and evil in the Marvel Comics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_Comics) Secret Wars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_Wars) crossover (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictional_crossover). Merged together from dozens of fragments taken from as many planets (including Denver, Colorado (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denver%2C_Colorado) from Earth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth)), Battleworld was designed to provide an unfamiliar environment which nevertheless allowed all contestants to use their powers to the fullest.

[Phaedrus45]

Breakdown vs. Tana Nile:

First, a breakdown (pardon the pun) on each characters powers.

Breakdown:

Breakdown has the transmutagenic power to warp objects, breaking down their molecular structure.



Tana Nile:

Fighting Skills: Good hand-to-hand combatant, trained in Rigellian martial arts
Special Skills/Abilities: Highly skilled in infiltration of alien races and in terraforming planets
Superhuman physical powers: Ability to increase her own density at will, increasing her strength and resistance to physical injury
Superhuman Mental Powers: Psionic ability to control the mind of another humanoid or to override another humanoid's control of his or her voluntary muscles (through "mind thrust")
Personal Weaponry: "Stasis gun" that can project concussive energy or intense heat


Ok, Breakdown appeared in just a few issues of X-Men 2099, and while he has a cool power, he has to touch what he breaks down. Tana Nile won't know anything about him; but, that won't matter. First, if anyone had nothing but a picture and the name, "Breakdown," to go on, you'd have a pretty good idea of what he does; he breaks down stuff. Second, as shown in X-Men 2099 #6, the guy likes to brag about his power before he uses it. He uses this method as a form of intimidation, and will breakdown something around him to try to instill fear in his opponent.

By all intents, Breakdown wouldn't know anything about Tana Nile, either. From what I've noticed, these rag-tag bands of mutants really didn't have a huge network to figure things out; they pretty much just roved the streets. Also, the Heroic Age is considered something that the government doesn't like people idealizing; so, they don't provide much information during this Age of Heroes.

How would the contest go? Tana and Breakdown would meet, and like in his other appearances, Breakdown would be all cocky and thinking he could take down this woman who stands before him. He'd try to intimidate her with a showing of his powers; but, Breakdown won't know that Tana simply can take control of his mind and body, making him ineffective. In fact, he might not even get the chance to display his powers. Tana Nile will know not to mess with someone whose powers she knows little about, and go for the "mind meld" right away.

Winner = Tana Nile

[Zoken]

Northstar: Agent of Hydra Vs. Doorman

wow... this might be easier than I thought it would be. You see, Doorman has exibited a "Death sense" allowing him knowledge of an array of things. meaning he'll know all about Northstar, he'll be able to sense him coming.

Originally, His only power was to allow things to pass through him (but not himself through things). HOWEVER with his recent power upgrade to a minion of Oblivion he has demonstrated that he has the ability of intangibility. so he can move through solid objects, and can traverse great distances quickly (he's an angel of death). In fact, the fact that he's already dead means that there is very little Northstar can do to hurt Doorman. the way I see it, Doorman would simply bait Northstar around until he found an appropriate place then, he would use his natural mutant power to send Northstar through solid rock trapping him in a small cave many miles below the planet's surface with no air supply killing him and letting him rest once and for all. (Besides, Northstar should be friggin' worshipping Doorman at this point, whole angel of death thing).

[Phaedrus45]

Spider-Man 2099 vs. Frankie Raye:

Again, first a breakdown of each character's powers.

Spider-Man 2099:

Abilities-Superhuman strength, speed, agility, reflexes, and durability
-Accelerated healing
-Enhanced vision
-Retractable finger and toe talons that enable clinging to many surfaces
-Organic webbing from forearms
-Paralyzing fangs.


Frankie Raye:

Powers Nova could manipulate cosmic energy in the form of stellar fire, surrounding herself in a flaming aura. Her portion of the power cosmic allowed her to manipulate all forms of energy, fly at warp speed, and survive in outer space.


Also to note:

Strength Level: Nova can lift about 40 tons.


Now, prep-time will seem to slightly benifit Spider-Man 2099 more; since, he comes from the future. But, if you are aware of the time that Miguel comes from, you'd know that information about past heroes isn't that easy to find. The political leaders are very much against glorifying superheroes from the past, and having memorabilia about them is considered just as bad as if police found drugs in our homes. Simply put, it's against the law. Now, there is a chance that Miguel would know a bit about Nova II(Frankie Raye), since he really liked to follow the past exploits of many past heroes...but, Nova II's role as a herald of Galactus probably wouldn't have been mentioned much.

On Frankie's side, she'd know nothing about Spider-Man 2099; but, she'd be fully aware of who Spider-Man is. This would give her some awareness of Miguel's powers.

Now, let's focus on Miguel's powers, and why they would effect Nova II that much. First, "[Spider-Man 2099] has the proportionate strength, speed and agility of a spider, which allows him to lift many times his own body weight, perform complicated acrobatic and gymnastic maneuvers that would be impossible for even the most highly-trained athlete, and jump great distances." While impressive, it doesn't compare with Frankie Raye's ability to lift 40 tons and fly at warp speed.

Second, "[Spider-Man 2099's] durability was also increased to a point where in an issue he suffered a punctured lung, broken ribs, major abrasions and bruises, and made it to a hospital in time where a doctor told him he has amazing constitution for him to be alive. He also notably heals faster than a normal human, but does not have a healing factor (he would not have needed a doctor if he did)." Also impressive, but Nova II was made by Galactus to withstand the effects of space, and as the following biography states, "(as herald of Galactus) ability to survive in a vacuum, superhuman strength and durability," which I'd easily infer as to be quite extensive, much more extensive than Miguel's.

Third, I want to point out one important part of Miguel's powers that he doesn't have: "Notably absent from his suite of powers is a "Spider-Sense." That really is a big deal. One of the things that gives Spidey an advantage over many of his foes is his spider sense, and since Miguel doesn't have this, he's at a humongous disadvantange.

Fourth, "Spinnerets (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinnerets) in his forearms enable him to fire organic spider-webbing from the top of his wrists, usable in a wide variety of ways. Like his predecessor, Spider-Man 2099 can travel at high speeds swinging on "weblines" when necessary, and he can use his webbing to ensnare enemies. Retractable talons in his fingertips and toes enable him to climb walls or cut enemies." Again, this is totally cool, but Frankie Raye has Cosmic Powers which would cause her fires to burn the spider-webbing quickly away. Plus, while Miguel's talons have cut through some metal in the past, Frankie Raye would be much more durable than that. Plus, climbing and fighting won't be very effective to one who can fly above such assaults.

Fifth, "He possesses venom glands and slightly enlarged, pointed canines (which are not entirely dissimilar to a vampire), which allows him to paralyze his foes should he choose to bite them." He would simply break his teeth trying to bite into a cosmic being, like Frankie Raye. Again, another power negated.

Finally, "His web cape, which he obtained from a Thorite (Worshiper of Thor), is made from the Lyte Byte material commonly used in the manufacturing of hang-gliders, and acts as an air foil, allowing him to glide on air currents for a short period of time, as well as slow his rate of descent and control his direction in freefall." Now, this is totally cool, but ineffective in this battle. Frankie wouldn't drop Miguel from high in the air, since she's basically one of the good guys, same as Miguel. But, a fight in the air with gliding abilities wouldn't help Spider-Man 2099 in the least bit.

So, that shows pretty much how all of Miguel's powers are completely useless in this fight. Frankie has the advantage with flight, and wouldn't even have to worry that much with an airborne assult. Sure, Miguel could shoot some webbing at her; but, her cosmic powers would easily make them disappear.

Winner = Frankie Raye(Nova II)

[Hellstormer]

Edit

[Hellstormer]

Match 18:

Madison Jeffries - Weapon X (MIDNIGHT ICE) bio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madison_Jeffries)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_madisonjeffries.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=madisonjeffries.jpg)

vs.

Delilah (HELLSTORMER) bio (http://www.spiderfan.org/characters/delilah.html)

http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/949/delilahby3.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)This'll be an interesting match, Delilah has a ridiculous amount of strength, the ability to crush a tank and Jeffries has an abundance of materials on this world to use for weapons, vehicles, devices. So Delilah's chance is to hit him hard and fast and destroy anything he makes quickly.

[Hellstormer]

BRACKET 2,

Match 17:

Spider-Man 2099 (HELLSTORMER) bio (http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/spiderman2099.htm)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_250px-Sman2099.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=250px-Sman2099.jpg)

vs.

Frankie Raye (PHAEDRUS45) bio (http://www.marvel.com/universe/Nova_(Frankie_Raye))

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_12v3.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=12v3.jpg)

....damn.

Ok this is gonna be hard but Spidey can do it. The first thing he'll wanna do is cool her off by finding some kind of cater source and spraying her with it or getting her into it. After she's cooled down the only problem he'll face is her flight and her control over....cosmic energy. Now once she's vunerable he'll try to web her down to keep her form flying away, I take it her strength level is normal because it doesn't say anything about superstrength. Once she's tied down he'll bite her and inject his halucagen toxin that might knock her out, if it doesn't he'll resort to using his talons that can cut through admantium. For thi to work and he be able to be hurt these events will need to happen quickly and rapidly but I believe he can do it.

[Phaedrus45]

edit ... wrong character being debated. Rebuttals to come later after Hellstormer and I can get up appropriate debates.

[Phaedrus45]

Rebuttal:

Ok this is gonna be hard but Spidey can do it. The first thing he'll wanna do is cool her off by finding some kind of cater source and spraying her with it or getting her into it.

First, looking for something like a "cater source" would be trying to find a needle in a haystack. Nobody but certain individuals previously involved know about the first Secret Wars, as it's been stated in many comics. Miguel and Nova II both wouldn't have any knowledge of the environment. Second, it would have to be a really, really big spray to reach her so far up in the air. Third, what the hell's a "cater source" anyway??? I looked up the words on the internet, and just got stuff about catering parties.

After she's cooled down the only problem he'll face is her flight and her control over....cosmic energy. Now once she's vunerable he'll try to web her down to keep her form flying away, I take it her strength level is normal because it doesn't say anything about superstrength.

Normal??!!?? She's a herald of galactus! Of course she's got superstrength. Also, in another biography as I've previously shown, it says she's got "superhuman strength and durability, other powers greatly enhanced." Seriously, can you see Galactus giving his herald normal powers? In fact, if you look at Nova II, she seems to have the same shiny exterior as Silver Surfer, just gold in color.

Once she's tied down he'll bite her and inject his halucagen toxin that might knock her out, if it doesn't he'll resort to using his talons that can cut through admantium. For thi to work and he be able to be hurt these events will need to happen quickly and rapidly but I believe he can do it.

Simply put, it's not going to happen. I'm not sure what you're talking about in the first part of your argument, but it clearly shows the second part of your argument has a big inaccuracy in her durability and superstrength. Plus, as noted, neither character won't know a thing about the environment, and thus finding certain artifacts would be very nearly impossible. (I'd say impossible, but I guess he might have a one in a million chance.)

Winner = Frankie Raye (Nova II)

[Hellstormer]

Edit

[Hellstormer]

Rebuttal
Rebuttal:



First, looking for something like a "cater source" would be trying to find a needle in a haystack. Nobody but certain individuals previously involved know about the first Secret Wars, as it's been stated in many comics. Miguel and Nova II both wouldn't have any knowledge of the environment. Second, it would have to be a really, really big spray to reach her so far up in the air. Third, what the hell's a "cater source" anyway??? I looked up the words on the internet, and just got stuff about catering parties.)Don't be a smartass you know I meant water :rolleyes:. And even if he doesn't know where one is exactly he could look.



Normal??!!?? She's a herald of galactus! Of course she's got superstrength. Also, in another biography as I've previously shown, it says she's got "superhuman strength and durability, other powers greatly enhanced." Seriously, can you see Galactus giving his herald normal powers? In fact, if you look at Nova II, she seems to have the same shiny exterior as Silver Surfer, just gold in color.Well Spidey isn't weak either, I don't tihnk he would be quite on the same level but he's up there, and his webbing is stronger then he is so I wouldn't roll it out as no being able to hold her.



Simply put, it's not going to happen. I'm not sure what you're talking about in the first part of your argument, but it clearly shows the second part of your argument has a big inaccuracy in her durability and superstrength. Plus, as noted, neither character won't know a thing about the environment, and thus finding certain artifacts would be very nearly impossible. (I'd say impossible, but I guess he might have a one in a million chance.)Hod do you know they won't get plopped right in the middle of downtown Denver? I'm sure Spidey could find a water source if he needed one because well water's universal so every planet has to have some if it's inhabittable.

[Phaedrus45]

Don't be a smartass you know I meant water :rolleyes:. And even if he doesn't know where one is exactly he could look.

Oh. Seriously, I didn't know what you meant. I thought it was some special scientific thing. OK, water would be a little easier to find, but as her powers are enhanced by Cosmic Powers, I would believe water doesn't effect her fire abilities much.


Well Spidey isn't weak either, I don't tihnk he would be quite on the same level but he's up there, and his webbing is stronger then he is so I wouldn't roll it out as no being able to hold her.

Yes, this Spider-Man is an excellent character; it's just another bad luck of the draw. Since Nova II can lift 40 tons, I don't think Miguel's webbing will have much effect on her. She'd easily be able to break it. Plus, as stated, I think her powers would easily make the webbing burn away.



Hod do you know they won't get plopped right in the middle of downtown Denver? I'm sure Spidey could find a water source if he needed one because well water's universal so every planet has to have some if it's inhabittable.

Again, I thought you really were talking about some device I was just too stupid to realize knowing. Yes, water might be easy to find; although, I might look through my Secret War comics and see if they ever fought around water. But, again, I don't think Galactus would make a herald who could be easily beaten by pouring regular water on. These are cosmic powers, and I highly doubt it would have any effect on her.

Really, your "cater source" had me thinking there was something that would douse her fire...I am just not at all worried about simple water.

[Hellstormer]

Oh. Seriously, I didn't know what you meant. I thought it was some special scientific thing. OK, water would be a little easier to find, but as her powers are enhanced by Cosmic Powers, I would believe water doesn't effect her fire abilities much.Fine fine all is forgiven. So her fire is cosmic and I guess since she flies around in space it doesn't need oxygen so water wouldn't effect her, but no one ever said her fire doesn't hurt her, if it's used against her. If Miguel can find some kind of forest or something she might fly through it causing a cosmic forest fire which Migual can use as an advantage.




Yes, this Spider-Man is an excellent character; it's just another bad luck of the draw. Since Nova II can lift 40 tons, I don't think Miguel's webbing will have much effect on her. She'd easily be able to break it. Plus, as stated, I think her powers would easily make the webbing burn away.His webbing is heat resistance, at least I think it is. And since he's suppose to be stronger then Spider-Man I would guess his rate is about class 15 (Spider-Man's class 10 I believe) meaning his webbing would probaly be in the 20-25 range. So if he can get anough of it on her it might get to the point where her only means of escape are blasting out with the comic energy, but not before Migual is able to stop her. Also according to wiki Spidey has enhanced healing, supersonic vision ( he can see things really fast), and telescopic vision that would aid him in finding a suitable enviroment to fight in.

[Phaedrus45]

Fine fine all is forgiven. So her fire is cosmic and I guess since she flies around in space it doesn't need oxygen so water wouldn't effect her, but no one ever said her fire doesn't hurt her, if it's used against her. If Miguel can find some kind of forest or something she might fly through it causing a cosmic forest fire which Migual can use as an advantage.

As other fire-powered superheroes aren't effected by fire, such as Human Torch, I think it would be safe to assume fire won't effect her. But, putting Miguel in a forest and saying it will catch fire will do far more damage to him than her. It would be hard for Nova II to fly above the tree line. Plus, I noticed Miguel might have a fear of water. He's had some water mishaps, and almost drowned, if not for being given CPR by Xina in Spider-Man 2099 #22.




His webbing is heat resistance, at least I think it is. And since he's suppose to be stronger then Spider-Man I would guess his rate is about class 15 (Spider-Man's class 10 I believe) meaning his webbing would probaly be in the 20-25 range.

Actually, the website I linked him to says he's "roughly class 10." Second, I would like to know how you come by this "20-25 range." It doesn't make sense to me. The only thing I found regarding his webbing is that it's organic. There isn't one mention of it being "heat resistant." Please give me anything that says otherwise. For me, if it's organic in nature, then it can be burned away.



So if he can get anough of it on her it might get to the point where her only means of escape are blasting out with the comic energy, but not before Migual is able to stop her. Also according to wiki Spidey has enhanced healing, supersonic vision ( he can see things really fast), and telescopic vision that would aid him in finding a suitable enviroment to fight in.

Just to clarify, he's got superhuman vision, not supersonic.

It's evident to me that Miguel is simply over-powered here. He cannot harm Nova II, as her durability, strength and powers are simply much more than Spider-Man 2099 would be able to handle. His webbing is organic, thus it should be able to be effected by Nova II's flames, her body wouldn't be penetrable by Miguel's teeth or talons, as it's physically the same as Silver Surfer's, and he wouldn't be able to get near her, as she has the ability to stay high in the air without him being able to touch her.

Winner = Frankie Raye (Nova II)

[Phaedrus45]

damn hype lag....edit

[Hellstormer]

As other fire-powered superheroes aren't effected by fire, such as Human Torch, I think it would be safe to assume fire won't effect her. But, putting Miguel in a forest and saying it will catch fire will do far more damage to him than her. It would be hard for Nova II to fly above the tree line. Plus, I noticed Miguel might have a fear of water. He's had some water mishaps, and almost drowned, if not for being given CPR by Xina in Spider-Man 2099 #22.
Never collected the series and I'm pretty much learning about this character from the wiki and the few appearences I have of him. There's really nothing I can fiigure out for him as an offensive way of confronting her, that fire is a major problem for him but if he'd manage a way through that he might be able to dodge any kind of cosmic blast and eventually nullify her. It's unlikely but that is like the Ezekial/Magnus fight, only I'm on the other side. :(






Actually, the website I linked him to says he's "roughly class 10." Second, I would like to know how you come by this "20-25 range." It doesn't make sense to me. The only thing I found regarding his webbing is that it's organic. There isn't one mention of it being "heat resistant." Please give me anything that says otherwise. For me, if it's organic in nature, then it can be burned away.
The 20-25 range is what I consider the strength of his webbing and since you said his strength is only roughly class 10 I think his webbing would be call 15-20. The reason I believe it's stronger then him is because a) he's able to swing from it and b) he's able to pull foes with it and in neither cases does it tear. I have an issue somewhere of 2099 World of Tomorrow where he makes a shield of webbing that he uses to shield him from a fire so I assumed it's either resistant or at least retardent.





Just to clarify, he's got superhuman vision, not supersonic.
I read the wiki and thay called it supersonic because he can see things going faster then sound. I don't know that's just what they called it.

It's evident to me that Miguel is simply over-powered here. He cannot harm Nova II, as her durability, strength and powers are simply much more than Spider-Man 2099 would be able to handle. His webbing is organic, thus it should be able to be effected by Nova II's flames, her body wouldn't be penetrable by Miguel's teeth or talons, as it's physically the same as Silver Surfer's, and he wouldn't be able to get near her, as she has the ability to stay high in the air without him being able to touch her.

...I don't like you, I think you fixed the matches so I was the ultimate underdog for every match:ninja:

[Phaedrus45]

Never collected the series and I'm pretty much learning about this character from the wiki and the few appearences I have of him. There's really nothing I can fiigure out for him as an offensive way of confronting her, that fire is a major problem for him but if he'd manage a way through that he might be able to dodge any kind of cosmic blast and eventually nullify her. It's unlikely but that is like the Ezekial/Magnus fight, only I'm on the other side. :(

The 20-25 range is what I consider the strength of his webbing and since you said his strength is only roughly class 10 I think his webbing would be call 15-20. The reason I believe it's stronger then him is because a) he's able to swing from it and b) he's able to pull foes with it and in neither cases does it tear. I have an issue somewhere of 2099 World of Tomorrow where he makes a shield of webbing that he uses to shield him from a fire so I assumed it's either resistant or at least retardent.

Ok, I finally arrived home, and I can access the "Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: Deluxe Edition #9." This is reasons why Nova II would be able to not be effected by Spider-Man 2099's webbing and other facts:

*"Nova possesses the ability to manipulate cosmic energy in the form of stellar fire...These energies make her the humanoid equivalent of a miniature sun. Projecting from any point on her body by mental command, Nova's energies encompass the entire electromagnetic spectrum possessed by a star: heat, light, gravity, radio waves, and charged particles. The maximum amount of heat she can produce appears to be 900,000 degrees Fahrenheit....With a minor manifestation of her stellar powers, she can burn through any Earthly substance (with the exception of Adamantium.)....Nova can control the path of her cosmic fire to such an extent that she can project a sustained ring of flame at a fixed distance around any object."

*"As a consequence of her cosmic form and metabolism, Nova is far stronger and more durable than an ordinary human being. Although she still possesses a physical body, she is virtually impervious to most forms of physical harm. Her body automatically incinerates any projectile that comes within her fiery corona."

So, this shows that 1) Nova II would be able to burn through Miguel's webbing quite easily, and 2) Miguel wouldn't be able to harm Nova II with either his webbing, talons, or teeth. To put it in plain terms, Spider-Man 2099 got royally screwed with this match-up.


I read the wiki and thay called it supersonic because he can see things going faster then sound. I don't know that's just what they called it.

Wiki says, "Compensating for his lack of a "Spider-Sense", his hearing exceeds the acuity of a normal human, as does his vision - he can see extremely well over both long distances ("telescopic" vision) and in low-light conditions. In addition to the generally enhanced properties of his vision, the flicker-fusion rate of his retinas is reduced to such an extent that he can easily perceive fast-moving objects that would appear to others as a blur." I didn't see the word supersonic; but, yes, he does have very good vision. It's too bad, he'll be able to see his ass-kicking coming.

[JewishHobbit]

Wasn't Breakdown suppose to be the Freakshow leader from X-Men 2099 with the discintigrating touch?

[Phaedrus45]

Wasn't Breakdown suppose to be the Freakshow leader from X-Men 2099 with the discintigrating touch?

Yep, that seems to be the case. That person never popped up for me, and here is the one bio I've found.

http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/archive/index.php/t-1285.html

I'll adjust stuff right now, and Hellstormer and I can redo our debates...although, I can see mine won't be too much different in strategy.

[Phaedrus45]

Ok, I found a crappy biography on Breakdown, but have to research the character more before I debate against him. Luckily, there was a picture I found, but to see what he looks like, I had to use the large-size picture. You can't miss it.

[Phaedrus45]

OK, I've researched the 4 appearances by Breakdown, and I've posted my opening argument again. I actually find the first Breakdown a better character than this one.

[Hellstormer]

Ok, I finally arrived home, and I can access the "Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: Deluxe Edition #9." This is reasons why Nova II would be able to not be effected by Spider-Man 2099's webbing and other facts:

*"Nova possesses the ability to manipulate cosmic energy in the form of stellar fire...These energies make her the humanoid equivalent of a miniature sun. Projecting from any point on her body by mental command, Nova's energies encompass the entire electromagnetic spectrum possessed by a star: heat, light, gravity, radio waves, and charged particles. The maximum amount of heat she can produce appears to be 900,000 degrees Fahrenheit....With a minor manifestation of her stellar powers, she can burn through any Earthly substance (with the exception of Adamantium.)....Nova can control the path of her cosmic fire to such an extent that she can project a sustained ring of flame at a fixed distance around any object."

*"As a consequence of her cosmic form and metabolism, Nova is far stronger and more durable than an ordinary human being. Although she still possesses a physical body, she is virtually impervious to most forms of physical harm. Her body automatically incinerates any projectile that comes within her fiery corona."

So, this shows that 1) Nova II would be able to burn through Miguel's webbing quite easily, and 2) Miguel wouldn't be able to harm Nova II with either his webbing, talons, or teeth. To put it in plain terms, Spider-Man 2099 got royally screwed with this match-up.His talons can cut through admantium.




Wiki says, "Compensating for his lack of a "Spider-Sense", his hearing exceeds the acuity of a normal human, as does his vision - he can see extremely well over both long distances ("telescopic" vision) and in low-light conditions. In addition to the generally enhanced properties of his vision, the flicker-fusion rate of his retinas is reduced to such an extent that he can easily perceive fast-moving objects that would appear to others as a blur." I didn't see the word supersonic; but, yes, he does have very good vision. It's too bad, he'll be able to see his ass-kicking coming.Supersonic vision sounds cooler:o

Yea I'm pretty much rolling over and dying on this one.

[Hellstormer]

New Break Down Debate

I really like this character better, his ability to break things down to molecular level with a touch really helps in this case.

Let's face it neither would really have an knowledge of eachother. Now I don't actually know about Breakdown but I know about the freaks from the 2099 World of Tomorrow issues. They're a very stealthy bunch, similiar to the Morlocks. So this means he would work stealthily until she got control of him. In this fight her density increase really won't do anything, if she gets to close and he can even get a finger on her she's just gonna be metals scraps. And let's be honest if she got control of him she would bring him over to her and try to hit him or step on him in which case his power would activate and she would be screwed.

Winner=Breakdown

[Phaedrus45]

His talons can cut through admantium.

His talons cannot cut through admantium. They have only been known to cut through some metallic objects. I refer to his bio:

"Retractable talons in his fingertips and toes enable him to climb walls or cut enemies. Though they are rather short (approximately an inch long), they are extremely sharp, and seem strong enough to resist breakage despite his enhanced strength - Miguel has shown capable of rending metal armour on numerous occasions."

[Phaedrus45]

New Break Down Debate

I really like this character better, his ability to break things down to molecular level with a touch really helps in this case.

Let's face it neither would really have an knowledge of eachother. Now I don't actually know about Breakdown but I know about the freaks from the 2099 World of Tomorrow issues. They're a very stealthy bunch, similiar to the Morlocks. So this means he would work stealthily until she got control of him. In this fight her density increase really won't do anything, if she gets to close and he can even get a finger on her she's just gonna be metals scraps. And let's be honest if she got control of him she would bring him over to her and try to hit him or step on him in which case his power would activate and she would be screwed.

Winner=Breakdown

First, as I mentioned, his name pretty much gives his powers away. Plus, just looking at him shows this guy is screwed up in some way. (It's funny, the first Breakdown we debated really didn't fit her name very well. This one does.) Second, like I said, this guy loves to brag. He never sneaks around and goes for a surprise tactic. He walks right up to you, announces he's there, and then tries to intimidate his opponent by showing how his power works. It stands to reason he'd do this, also. Third, he won't get close enough to her before she takes him out with mind control.

One thing I noticed is that Breakdown isn't as great as he seems on paper, too. He engages in hand-to-hand combat, and doesn't always have his powers work. One opponent simply gave him an extreme electrical jolt when he touched his armor.

Finally, you say, "if she got control of him she would bring him over to her and try to hit him or step on him in which case his power would activate and she would be screwed." That would be completely stupid thing to do. The participants know they just have to take someone out of the battle, and the second she uses mind control, the battle would be declared over. She doesn't need to kill him. (And, he wouldn't have the will to use his powers. I've seen him touch people in the comics, and he has to use his will for his powers to work.)

Winner = Tana Nile

[Hellstormer]

It's hard fighting with a guy you've never even heard of.
First, as I mentioned, his name pretty much gives his powers away. Plus, just looking at him shows this guy is screwed up in some way. (It's funny, the first Breakdown we debated really didn't fit her name very well. This one does.) Second, like I said, this guy loves to brag. He never sneaks around and goes for a surprise tactic. He walks right up to you, announces he's there, and then tries to intimidate his opponent by showing how his power works. It stands to reason he'd do this, also. Third, he won't get close enough to her before she takes him out with mind control.How do you take someone out with mind control, the worse she could do is make him hit himself or she hits him. There's no way of iincapacitating someone with mindcontrol.

One thing I noticed is that Breakdown isn't as great as he seems on paper, too. He engages in hand-to-hand combat, and doesn't always have his powers work. One opponent simply gave him an extreme electrical jolt when he touched his armor. Well maybe since then he's gotten better control over his powers.

Finally, you say, "if she got control of him she would bring him over to her and try to hit him or step on him in which case his power would activate and she would be screwed." That would be completely stupid thing to do. The participants know they just have to take someone out of the battle, and the second she uses mind control, the battle would be declared over. She doesn't need to kill him. (And, he wouldn't have the will to use his powers. I've seen him touch people in the comics, and he has to use his will for his powers to work.)
Ok this is where my knowledge of the game is lacking. I was under the impression that a win is knockout or incapacitating the opponent, not putting them under control via mindcontrol in which case a ton of battles should've gone in the complete opposite direction.

[Phaedrus45]

It's hard fighting with a guy you've never even heard of.
How do you take someone out with mind control, the worse she could do is make him hit himself or she hits him. There's no way of iincapacitating someone with mindcontrol.

Basically, all you have to do is take someone out of a fight. With mind control, you control the person, and thus they are unable to fight any longer. Heck, if Tana Nile had it in her, she could just kill him with her weapon at that point. But, that's regardless. (Plus, Tana is able to make him lose all bodily function. If he cannot stand or move, he cannot fight.)

Well maybe since then he's gotten better control over his powers.

You only get your character after their last appearance or where noted. He wouldn't be able to learn more control, because he would be taken right after X-Men 2099 #12.

Ok this is where my knowledge of the game is lacking. I was under the impression that a win is knockout or incapacitating the opponent, not putting them under control via mindcontrol in which case a ton of battles should've gone in the complete opposite direction.

No, this has always been the rule. If you incapacitate someone, beat them, or take them out of a fight, it's considered a win. It's just some characters with mind control have the bad luck of the draw and get an opponent who is able to battle this method of defeat. Breakdown doesn't have this benefit.

[Midnight Ice]

Match 18:

Madison Jeffries - Weapon X (MIDNIGHT ICE) bio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madison_Jeffries)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_madisonjeffries.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=madisonjeffries.jpg)

vs.

Delilah (HELLSTORMER) bio (http://www.spiderfan.org/characters/delilah.html)

http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/949/delilahby3.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)

I agree, this is an interesting match. This world will have a vast variety of materials for Jeffries to create any type of robot, weapon, or anything else he can come up with his imagination. Sure Delilah is strong, but with all the materials available to him, Jeffries could easily create something beyond Delilah's strength range.

Winner: Madison Jeffries (Weapon X)

[Midnight Ice]

Match 18:

Northstar - Agent of Hydra (MIDNIGHT ICE) bio (http://www.mutanthigh.com/northstar.html)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_northstar1.gif (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=northstar1.gif)

vs.

Doorman (ZOKEN) bio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doorman_(comics))

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_225px-Doorman.png (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=225px-Doorman.png)

Another very interesting match. Sure Doorman may have a sense of when danger is near, but Northstar has shown to be fast enough to catch almost anybody off guard. Not only that, but the "Agent of Hydra" version of Northstar has no regard for anyone's life or the consequences of his actions. He is a ruthless killer and would not hesitate to tear Doorman in half while at top speed, before Doorman knew what was happening.

Winner: Northstar (Agent of Hydra)

[Zoken]

you have one major misuderstanding in your logic Midnightice... Doorman is dead. meanign his natural state is intangible, not tangible. besides, how can Northstar "Re-kill" him?

and it isn't a "danger sense" it's a "death-sense" He was able to tell, from a pinpoint of light streaking through the sky that it was in fact a specific dead body burning up on re-entry. I think that maeans he'll be able to know that someone who has died, AND worships death is coming after him.

[Midnight Ice]

Well, if Doorman is DEAD, doesn't that mean he has already lost? If not, I'd say he will win this tourny. :p

[Zoken]

Until he comes up agaisnt a majorly powered mystic. He died, and was brought back as an servant of Oblivion (As in one of the most powerful four in our universe). he was not put back in a body, but rather his spirit was sent back. I base this on the fact that he is exibiting intangibility in a way he could not before. He is an angel of death to use his own words. He doesn't need to breath (as evidenced by him collecting Grasshopper II's soul in outer space). He's not technically alive, but he's not out of this yet. You just have to understand that he is not NATURALLY tangible anymore. his natural state is intangible.

hey, if I had my way, he'd also be as strong as Deathurge was and able to manifest weapons like he did.

[Hellstormer]

Match 18:

Madison Jeffries - Weapon X (MIDNIGHT ICE) bio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madison_Jeffries)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_madisonjeffries.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=madisonjeffries.jpg)

vs.

Delilah (HELLSTORMER) bio (http://www.spiderfan.org/characters/delilah.html)

http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/949/delilahby3.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)

I agree, this is an interesting match. This world will have a vast variety of materials for Jeffries to create any type of robot, weapon, or anything else he can come up with his imagination. Sure Delilah is strong, but with all the materials available to him, Jeffries could easily create something beyond Delilah's strength range.
Yes but if she sees him building something I doubt she'll let him finish before she destroys it.

[Phaedrus45]

Voting May Begin!

[hippy fascist]

Breakdown: Psychic powers are often talked up beyond their real capacity in bios

Doorman: He's dead already and can go intangible. He'd find a way to kill northstar even if it meant the fight going on for 48 hours plus. He's dead, it's not like he needs to sleep.

Frankine Raye: I hate to vote against a spider-man but she's just out of his league

Madison Jeffries: Love the character also the potential is awesome for this guy in terms of possible ways to end the fight.

[Phaedrus45]

*Tana Nile

*Delilah

*Frankie Raye

*Northstar

[Zoken]

Tana Nile
Delilah
Frankie Raye
DOORMAN!

[Hellstormer]

Delilah (Yea my character)
Doorman (Can't kill a dead guy ;))
Breakdown (I can use him and I disgree with your logic of mind control=victory)
Frankie Raye (Ummm.....sorry Miguel.)

[wiegeabo]

Tana Nile
Doorman
Frankie Raye
Madison Jefferies

[hippy fascist]

Tana Nile is currently beating Breakdown 3-2
Doorman is currently beating Northstar 4-1
Frankie Raye is currently beatign Spider-man 2999 5-0
Delilah is currently beating Madison Jefferies 3-2

Sorry wiegeabo, my mistake...:o

[Harlekin]

Tana Nile - Nice debate.
Madison Jeffries
Frankie Raye - Would've been great if you pulled out the Spidey vs Firelord fight to make a point for Spidey 2099 though.
Doorman

[Hellstormer]

Frankie Raye - Would've been great if you pulled out the Spidey vs Firelord fight to make a point for Spidey 2099 though.
Say what!??!!?:eek::eek::eek:

[Phaedrus45]

Say what!??!!?:eek::eek::eek:

Don't worry. He's talking about Peter Parker, not Miguel. Peter had to rely on his spider-sense throughout that contest. Just read Amazing Spider-Man 269 and 270. (Still can't believe Spidey got booted out of the first round with Season 1.)

[wiegeabo]

Spidey, Thor, and Hulk.

Those were some crazy first draws.

[Hellstormer]

Don't worry. He's talking about Peter Parker, not Miguel. Peter had to rely on his spider-sense throughout that contest. Just read Amazing Spider-Man 269 and 270. (Still can't believe Spidey got booted out of the first round with Season 1.)
But but Migual's more powerful then Peter, I could've won.

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Breakdown
Delilah
Nova
Doorman

[JewishHobbit]

Don't worry. He's talking about Peter Parker, not Miguel. Peter had to rely on his spider-sense throughout that contest. Just read Amazing Spider-Man 269 and 270. (Still can't believe Spidey got booted out of the first round with Season 1.)

I'm going to do my best to make sure that won't happen again :)

[JewishHobbit]

Tana Nile
Doorman
Frankie Raye
Madison Jefferies

[DarkHellRider]

Tana Nile
Doorman
Frankie Raye
Madison Jefferies

[Ahura Mazda]

Tana Nile
Doorman
Frankie Raye
Madison Jefferies

[kytrigger]

Doorman
Tana Nile
Madison Jeffries
Frankie raye

[Darthphere]

Tana Nile
Doorman
Frankie Raye
Madison Jefferies

[Iceman]

Breakdown - I don't think Tana Nile will be aware how deadly Breakdown's touch can be and may succumb even if she gains control.
Frankie Raye - as long as she can withstand the "cater source" :woot: :csad:
Madison Jeffries
Doorman

[Phaedrus45]

Results So Far:

Tana Nile currently beating Breakdown 9-4
Madison Jeffries currently beating Delilah 9-4
Frankie Raye currently beating Spider-Man 2099 13-0
Doorman currently beating Northstar-Agent of Hydra 12-1