Contest of Marvels II Thread 1 [Archive] - The SuperHeroHype Forums

wiegeabo

10-15-2006, 10:05 PM

Strong Guy vs. Green Goblin

This is a good warmup match for Strong Guy to get into this tournament with. A tough opponent that he can still beat.

First I'll say that it's unlikely Norman would be able to get any information on Guido, while, if nothing else, Guido could learn all he needs about Norman from old issues of the Daily Bugle.

So, without knowledge of his opponent, Normal will probably fall back on the classic tactic of flying around on his glider and raining down pumpkin bombs on Guido. What he wouldn't know is that the energy of the blasts would do nothing but pump Guido up.

Of course, this leads us to the problem of Strong Guy overcharging since Norman would keep out of his grasp. But Guido would do what he always does when charged too high, punch the ground, stomp the ground, hit anything to release the his energy.

And if Guido takes his power out on a building or other structure, he may get himself some hefty material to through at the Goblin, gving him another outlet for the built up energy.

Eventually, Norman's going to use up his weapons and have to take on Strong Guy himself. He could try ramming Guido with his glider, but Strong Guy would probably shrug off the impact and use it on Norman, who's now in range of his fists.

And in hand-to-hand combat, I have to give it to Strong Guy. He's an experienced hand-to-hand fighter as it is, and he'd redirect the energy of any blows Norman may land, meaning the Goblin probably wouldn't be able to hurt him, even with his bumped up strength.

Now, Norman can also take a punch and heal quickly, but we're talking about punches from a mutant that was strong enough to take on the Hulk. And even though Norman is fast, Guido would probably only need to connect once to turn the fight on his side. Strong Guy even could take the fight indoors and bring the building down around him. He'd survive (he's had buildings fall on him before), but Norman would probably be in a bad way afterwards.

To sum up, I'm not sure what Norman could do that would seriously hurt Guido, but there's plenty Strong Guy can do to take the Goblin out of the fight.

Strong Guy wins.

Trigger

10-16-2006, 12:09 PM

Rebuttle

Strong Guy vs. Green Goblin

This is a good warmup match for Strong Guy to get into this tournament with. A tough opponent that he can still beat.

First I'll say that it's unlikely Norman would be able to get any information on Guido, while, if nothing else, Guido could learn all he needs about Norman from old issues of the Daily Bugle.

Norman isn't just any ol' wierdo in a suit. He has more than enough connections to learn information about Guido; especially since Guido has
worked with the government before (which earned him some of the media's attention.) If anything, Norman should have access to some of the same resources as Guido. I also doubt any Bugle article could be more descriptive than a government file, and Oscorp has had very close relations to the government.

Of course, this leads us to the problem of Strong Guy overcharging since Norman would keep out of his grasp. But Guido would do what he always does when charged too high, punch the ground, stomp the ground, hit anything to release the his energy.

And if Guido takes his power out on a building or other structure, he may get himself some hefty material to through at the Goblin, gving him another outlet for the built up energy.

It'd only take Norman seeing him do this once to realize how he releases energy, and given the Goblin's reaction times. It'd take a hell of a lucky shot to not only hit him, but knock him of the glider. Meanwhile Norman can, and would continuously rain down missles/bullets/what have you at Guido, and I don't think he could discharge fast enough.

wiegeabo

10-16-2006, 01:26 PM

Counter...

Norman isn't just any ol' wierdo in a suit. He has more than enough connections to learn information about Guido; especially since Guido has
worked with the government before (which earned him some of the media's attention.) If anything, Norman should have access to some of the same resources as Guido. I also doubt any Bugle article could be more descriptive than a government file, and Oscorp has had very close relations to the government.

Possible, but not guaranteed. Whereas Guido could find out more than enough about Norman from easy to access sources. JJJ would make sure every little detail about Osborn and the Goblin he could dig up would be in his paper (and that's just one way Guido could get info. He may have access to government files as well).

It'd only take Norman seeing him do this once to realize how he releases energy, and given the Goblin's reaction times. It'd take a hell of a lucky shot to not only hit him, but knock him of the glider. Meanwhile Norman can, and would continuously rain down missles/bullets/what have you at Guido, and I don't think he could discharge fast enough.

Punching or stomping is only one way for Guido to discharge. Just the act of running from airborne attacks could do it. Not to mention throwing large chunks of debris caused by the explosins (or by Guido hitting/running through a building to get rid of some of the energy. Strong Guy could even put his energy into a good jump and try to grab Norman in the air. If Guido misses, energy expended. If he connects, Gobby's going to be in for a world of hurt.

And it wouldn't be obvious to Norman how Guido is resisting his attacks. From Gobby's perspective, Strong Guy may just be resistant to the bombs and bullets, and he's punching objects to get stuff to throw, not necessarily to discharge extra energy.

It's the classic situation where you have a fast mover against a strong guy (pun intended). The fast mover can't do a lot of damage (relatively) with each attack, but can attack a lot (until he runs out of ammo). The fast mover may be able to dodge a lot of the strong guy's attacks, but Strong Guy only has to connect once to bring the fight onto his side.

Strong Guy wins.

WOLVERINE25TH

10-16-2006, 08:01 PM

IRON FIST vs. HELIX

Iron Fist has the unfortunate luck of being a physical combatant. Unfortunate because Helix is a hyper-adaptoid that can instantaneously and automatically respond to any stimuli in his environment, especially attacks. His body can devlop armor or weaponry as needed. Add to that his incredible strength and Iron Fist is in for a tango.

Despite all his training, there's no way Fist can possibly attack any weak points as they would become protected before he even connected. And even if he could connect, it would be most likely Helix would simply adapt and regenrate to overcome it. And his special punch? Again, instant armor.

The only way thus far to defeat Helix is to stop fighting him as he'll revert to normal without stimuli, but then there's no way to give him the final blow without activating his power again. Single handedly, Helix gave the New Warriors AND Scarlet Spider trouble, despite all their combined powers. Iron Fist? He's met his match.

WINNER: HELIX

WOLVERINE25TH

10-16-2006, 08:31 PM

BLIZZARD vs. SASQUATCH

Battle of the brains! Blizzard is no match for Sas' brawn, but he is an accomplished engineer. Utilizing the stuff found in and around Uatu's lair it's possible he could fashion something to help give him an edge over Sas or increase his powers. All technology has the same rudamentary base.

Sas is durable but not invulnerable. Bilzz can fire ice bullets out from his costume and use them to wound Sas if he can connect. And while Sas may be Canadian, Blizz can pour on the cold to slow down his muscles and make him sluggish and more vulnerable. Or, possibly, he could freeze the air around him to encase him in a block of ice.

For Sas' strength, defensive ice shields. For Sas' agility, freezing the ground where he'd land to keep him off balance. Blizz can be one slippery customer to give Sas enough grief to tire him out and let him come in for the KO.

WINNER: BLIZZARD

Phaedrus45

10-17-2006, 10:11 AM

Voting May Begin!!!

Darthphere

10-17-2006, 10:44 AM

Helix
Strong Guy
Sasquatch
Mastermind

kytrigger

10-17-2006, 10:49 AM

*Helix (he just flat out overpowers Iron Fist)

*Strong Guy (I think this would be a very close match, the only way I see GG hurting Strong Guy is if he makes him absorb too much energy, something Strong Guy just won't let happen. Whereas I can see a number of ways where Strong Guy can hurt GG.)

*Blizzard (Another close match, but I think that Blizzard's freezing techniques would be enough to slow down Sasquatch so blizzard could put him down for good. Also, nobody debated for Sasquatch.

*MasterMind

WOLVERINE25TH

10-17-2006, 10:51 AM

Helix
Strong Guy
Blizzard
Mastermind

Phaedrus45

10-17-2006, 11:00 AM

*Helix

*Strong Guy

*Sasquatch

*Mastermind

JewishHobbit

10-17-2006, 11:08 AM

Helix (yay, go Clone Saga Era Characters!)
Strong Guy (He has strength, but he also has speed. Spidey even managed to be shocked by how fast he is during the Infinity Crusade)
Dazzler (This one was tough for me, but in the end I think Dazzler can take it)
Blizzard (Sasquatch had a chance at this one, but Wolvie did a good writie up and I decided to go with it).

hippy fascist

10-17-2006, 11:13 AM

Helix
Green Goblin (I'm a spidey geek :o, norman would find a way!)
Dazzler (Underdog:heart: )
Sasquatch

Harlekin

10-17-2006, 11:52 AM

Helix
Strong Guy - I think Guido has more of a shot of taking down Goblin than the other way around.
Blizzard
Mastermind - I think Mastermind has enough of an advantage to take Dazzler down.

Ahura Mazda

10-17-2006, 12:08 PM

Helix
Strong Guy
Mastermind
Blizzard - want to go with Sasquatch on this but I do think Wolv deserves the vote as he made the effort

Phaedrus45

10-17-2006, 12:51 PM

Results so far:

Helix currently beating Iron Fist 8-0
Strong Guy currently beating Green Goblin 7-1
Blizzard currently beating Sasquatch 5-3
Mastermind currently beating Dazzler 6-2

Hellstormer

10-17-2006, 05:19 PM

-Iron Fist (This battle took me awhile to decide because either one could come out with a victory but seeing some of Iron Fists moves I think he could take him.)

-Strong Guy

-Sasquatch (Sasquatch is the beast, litterally. He use the cool of Canada so Blizzard really couldn't freeze him and he's got the strength to rip him in two.)

-Mastermind (He could just make her think she's deaf, then she's screwed)

Iceman

10-17-2006, 05:36 PM

Helix
Strong Guy
Blizzard
Mastermind (brave argument for the useless Dazzler :up:)

Phaedrus45

10-17-2006, 06:50 PM

bump

Zoken

10-17-2006, 07:34 PM

Helix
Strong-Guy
Sasquatch
Dazzler

wiegeabo

10-17-2006, 09:56 PM

Helix (tough choice. I think I can see a way for Fist to win, but the question is if he'd get the time to do it)
Strong Guy
Sasquatch
Dazzler (I think she'd be able to disrupt Mastermind's concentration)

Phaedrus45

10-18-2006, 11:11 AM

Results So Far:

Helix currently beating Iron Fist 11-1
Strong Guy currently beating Green Goblin 11-1
Blizzard currently tied with Sasquatch 6-6
Mastermind currently beating Dazzler 8-4

Midnight Ice

10-18-2006, 03:10 PM

Sorry for not debating. Here are my votes though:

Iron Fist
Strong Guy
Sasquatch
Mastermind

Phaedrus45

10-18-2006, 03:51 PM

Results So Far:

Helix currently beating Iron Fist 11-2
Strong Guy currently beating Green Goblin 12-1
Sasquatch currently beating Blizzard 7-6
Mastermind currently beating Dazzler 9-4

(The only participants who haven't voted in this thread are Trigger, DarkHellRider, and AnnoyingSilence)

Phaedrus45

10-19-2006, 10:34 AM

Final Results:

Helix defeated Iron Fist 11-2
Strong Guy defeated Green Goblin 12-1
Sasquatch defeated Blizzard 7-6
Mastermind defeated Dazzler 9-4

Darthphere

10-19-2006, 10:34 AM

Score one for the good guys!

Zoken

10-19-2006, 12:05 PM

Knew it was an uphill battle anyway

Phaedrus45

10-20-2006, 12:09 AM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/JewishHobbit/CoM.jpg

BRACKET 1,

Match 3:

Prodigy - Slingers (HARLEKIN) bio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prodigy_(comics))

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_Prodigy.gif (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=Prodigy.gif&refPage=400&imgAnch=imgAnch409)

vs.

Donald Pierce (ICEMAN/PSYLOCKE) bio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Pierce)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_pierce2-1.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=pierce2-1.jpg&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch1)

Match 4:

Night Thrasher (WOLVERINE25TH) bio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_Thrasher)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_thrasher.gif (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=thrasher.gif&refPage=420&imgAnch=imgAnch422)

vs.

Iron Man (PHAEDRUS45) bio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Man)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_Iron-man.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=Iron-man.jpg&refPage=180&imgAnch=imgAnch185)

Iceman

10-20-2006, 12:41 AM

I'm not up to two super-long posts in one day :csad: so I'll keep this one sweet.

Donald Pierce's abilities according to Wiki:

Donald Pierce is a cyborg with superhuman strength. His reflexes and agility are also inhumanly fast. These attributes are derived from his artificial body. His body has great resistance to damage and even if it is destroyed, as long as his head is intact he will probably survive. There is nothing left of his original human body except the head, and how much of the head is even original is unknown. It is unknown if he still has his original brain or if he uploaded his memories, intelligence, and thought engrams into a cyborg computer brain.
Aside from his physical advantages, Donald Pierce is a genius in robotics, cybernetics, and electronics. In these fields he has developed technology that exceeds that of conventional science by approximately two centuries. He also has vast financial resources (a requirement for membership in the Hellfire club).This guy will be using his prep time well. Cybernetic brain, oodles of cash and Hellfire Club membership means he'll know whatever he needs to know to win this fight by the time it comes around.

This part was also interestingPredictably, Prodigy is defeated by Iron Man and apprehended by SHIELD agents.

I'll leave it there for now unless my esteemed opponent comes up with a good argument. :yay: :word:

Phaedrus45

10-20-2006, 01:04 AM

BRACKET 2,

Match 3:

Sunfire - Famine (JEWISHHOBBIT) bio (http://www.mutanthigh.com/sunfire.html)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_sunfire2.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=sunfire2.jpg&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch1)

vs.

Sabastian Shaw (DARTHPHERE) bio (http://www.mutanthigh.com/shaw.html)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_shaw-1.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=shaw-1.jpg&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch1)

Match 4:

Magnus - Exiles (HELLSTORMER) bio (http://www.mutanthigh.com/alternatex/exiles/magnus.html)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_magnus.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=magnus.jpg&refPage=420&imgAnch=imgAnch438)

vs.

Ezekial (PHAEDRUS45) bio (http://www.spiderfan.org/characters/ezekiel.html)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_ezekiel.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=ezekiel.jpg&refPage=120&imgAnch=imgAnch131)

Harlekin

10-20-2006, 08:43 AM

Prodigy (Slingers) vs Donald Pierce

You've basically got the jerk of the Slingers versus the ***** of the Hellfire Club. Both of these lads are superstrong, and have a degree of superhuman reflexes. The fun thing about Prodigy though is that he's a lot more versatile in his movement. Whenever you see Donald Pierce show up, he has to engage his foe in hand-to-hand combat to be effective. Prodigy can use an old tactic called hit and run, thanks to the fact that he has the ability to leap as high and far that it almost constitutes flying.

Now it comes to the actual fighting portion. Both are dirty fighters, and if you think Prodigy, being a hero, isn't much of a dirty fighter, read the Slingers series. The man is a grade A jerk and has little qualms with pushing the boundaries of what he can and can't do. If he figures out Pierce can survive headless, then we're talking immediate decapitation baby. Which is exactly something that we shouldn't forget. The prep-time aspect. Prodigy is a no-name obscure superhero, Donald Pierce is a high-class, well-regarded member of the Hellfire Club. If you bet on which one of the two has the better luck in finding info on the other, I'd place my bets on Prodigy.

But the most important part of it all though is quite simply the fact that to Prodigy, the ends do justify the means, and the world's pretty black and white. He's the hero. Pierce is the villain. That means Prodigy is going to go in there and utterly pound the **** of the cyborg. Which is exactly what I want to point out from good old wikipedia:
He was beaten by Wolverine in hand-to-hand combat even though he is several times stronger than Logan.

Donald Pierce isn't a martial artist, nor is he even really trained in any type of fighting art. Prodigy is a wrestler, and a good old brawler, a brawler that will stop at nothing to get what he wants. The added fact of him probably being as strong, if not stronger than Pierce makes me come to only conclusion: Pierce's a dead man.

WINNER=PRODIGY

Iceman

10-20-2006, 11:15 AM

Rebuttal: Prodigy (Slingers) vs Donald Pierce

You've basically got the jerk of the Slingers versus the ***** of the Hellfire Club. Both of these lads are superstrong, and have a degree of superhuman reflexes. The fun thing about Prodigy though is that he's a lot more versatile in his movement. Whenever you see Donald Pierce show up, he has to engage his foe in hand-to-hand combat to be effective. Prodigy can use an old tactic called hit and run, thanks to the fact that he has the ability to leap as high and far that it almost constitutes flying.
He still has to be able to get away from the guy in the first place and that depends on who has the faster reflexes, not how far you can get once you’ve broken free. Someone attached to a bungee cable may (?) be able to temporarily escape from Bruce Lee in a fight and get away very far and use the hit and run tactic in this way but it doesn’t actually help. Whenever the two of them come together they will both get the chance for a few quick hits before the guy escapes again. It doesn’t mean that the guy jumping in will get the better of the exchange at any point. I’d advise him to use the ability to get the hell out while he still can. :yay:

If he was superior to Pierce there would be no need to use this tactic. Giving Pierce time is also unwise as he is by far the more intelligent man and can out-think the kid while he waits for him to return.

Now it comes to the actual fighting portion. Both are dirty fighters, and if you think Prodigy, being a hero, isn't much of a dirty fighter, read the Slingers series. The man is a grade A jerk and has little qualms with pushing the boundaries of what he can and can't do. If he figures out Pierce can survive headless, then we're talking immediate decapitation baby. Pierce is a fully fledged villain, no claims to the contrary, so he can only outdo Prodigy in this respect.

Which is exactly something that we shouldn't forget. The prep-time aspect. Prodigy is a no-name obscure superhero, Donald Pierce is a high-class, well-regarded member of the Hellfire Club. If you bet on which one of the two has the better luck in finding info on the other, I'd place my bets on Prodigy.
There’s finding info of the type that we get on the internet and there’s finding info that can be crucial to winning a fight. Yes, Pierce is famous but the Hellfire Club is an ultra secretive organisation. Everyone’s heard of them on a surface level but getting useful inside information is something that is way beyond this guy. Prodigy is obscure in the way that an ordinary human is. That doesn’t mean that it’s difficult in the technological age for a resourceful man with money and contacts to find the information he needs.

Prep time to a high school jock and to a high ranking Hellfire Club member and mechanical genius with access to technology from 200 years into the future, vast financial backing, and a huge network of useful underworld contacts is two different things. Whatever info Pierce finds on Prodigy he has the resources to act on it to combat the guy’s weaknesses.

But the most important part of it all though is quite simply the fact that to Prodigy, the ends do justify the means, and the world's pretty black and white. He's the hero. Pierce is the villain.
I follow this argument up to here.

That means Prodigy is going to go in there and utterly pound the **** of the cyborg. Not sure how this follows from the above though.

Which is exactly what I want to point out from good old wikipedia:
Quote:
He was beaten by Wolverine in hand-to-hand combat even though he is several times stronger than Logan.
Predictably, Prodigy is defeated by Iron Man and apprehended by SHIELD agents.The use of the word predictably is what makes this quote the more damning of the two.

Donald Pierce isn't a martial artist, nor is he even really trained in any type of fighting art. Prodigy is a wrestler, and a good old brawler, a brawler that will stop at nothing to get what he wants. The added fact of him probably being as strong, if not stronger than Pierce makes me come to only conclusion: Pierce's a dead man.
When you say Prodigy is a wrestler you mean he was captain of his college wrestling team. We’re not talking master of his art here. In other words there’s no reason why I couldn’t beat him in a fight. His wrestling skills are not on a level where they will have any impact on this match.

Most, if not all, fighting styles (including wrestling) take advantage of weaknesses in the human body attacking pressure points, using nerve holds etc. Getting a cyborg into a move that would cause even the most durable human to submit will not hurt a cyborg who doesn’t suffer from the same physiological weaknesses.

Ritchie Gilmore is a typical jock, captain of his college wrestling team, and one of the most popular guys in school.
This sums up our boy. He’s just a juiced up jerk of a kid with little in the way of brains going up against a veteran foe of the X-Men who has seen it all.

A few other Pierce tributes:
Powers and Abilities:
cybernetic adamantium enhancements augment his strength, speed, agility, endurance, and reflexes, cybermorphic limbs, release plasma and electromagnetic force, self-propelled flight capabilities

he has phenomenal strength, heightened sensory abilities, and the ability to send electrical charges through his arms, among other things
He created a body out of adamantium, among other things, for himself. His arms have morphing capabilities, and his left eye is completely bionic, with external circuitry

WINNER: Donald Pierce

Phaedrus45

10-20-2006, 11:43 AM

LOCATION: ATTILAN

Attilan is the ancestral home of the Inhumans (http://www.marvel.com/universe/Inhumans), a highly advanced offshoot of the human race. About seven thousand years ago, the Inhumans grew tired of centuries of persecution by their more primitive parent race, and decided to create a place of refuge for themselves. Under the leadership of King Myran (http://www.marvel.com/universe3zx/index.php?title=Myran&action=edit), the Inhumans chose as a site for their city a small island in the northern Atlantic Ocean, located about two hundred miles southwest of Iceland. The city, which took several decades to complete, was named Attilan, a name derived from Atlantis (http://www.marvel.com/universe/Atlantis), the former pinnacle of civilization on Earth that had vanished beneath the sea about three millennia before. Attilan has been the sole center of the Inhuman population ever since.
For millennia, the Inhumans dwelled in Attilan, isolated from contact with mainstream humanity except for an occasional encounter with a lost Greek or Viking sailing vessel. Finally, in the mid-Twentieth Century, with the advent of steamships and airplanes, the Inhumans began to fear discovery by the human race. When one of his subjects was captured by human beings, young king Black Bolt (http://www.marvel.com/universe/Black_Bolt) determined that the Inhumans must move their civilization to some place more secure. Employing anti-gravity generators, the Inhumans moved their entire city and its foundation in one piece. The new site of Attilan, a hidden valley in the Himalayan Mountain range in China, was excavated by the Eternals (http://www.marvel.com/universe/Eternals), another variant offshoot of humanity. The Himalayan site of Attilan became known as "the Great Refuge." The Himalayas did not prove to be remote enough to enable the Inhumans to retain their secrecy, however, and soon the Inhumans' existence became known to several of the governments of the outside world, although not to the general public. While in the Himalayas, all of Attilan's ancient architecture was accidentally destroyed by Black Bolt and the city has been extensively redesigned and rebuilt.

(SINCE WE JUST HAD THE LAST LOCATION BE THE BLUE AREA OF THE MOON, THIS IS ATTILAN IN THE HIMALAYAS. EVERYTHING IS THERE, EXCEPT THE PEOPLE.)

Darthphere

10-20-2006, 12:00 PM

Sebastian Shaw takes down Sunfire.

Sebastian Shaw is a formidable mutant that absorbs kinetic energy and rechannels it to physical strenght, also making him much more "hard" hehe and gains more endurance.

Sunfire as Famine retains all the powers of the original SUnfire which include absorbing solar energy which allows him to fly and ionize matter to create plasma blasts. As Famine he is able to stimulate the optic nerve into believing oneself to be starving.

In Attilan the two meet up, these two have some knowledge of each other and probably have fought before. The one distinct advantage Sunfire has is his ability to fly. Sunfire would be shooting plasma blasts at Shaw causing some damage but since its all kinetic (moving) energy, Shaw would be able to become stronger and endure more of his attacks. The trick here is for Sebastian Shaw not to be affacted by Sunfires optic attack, and that would prove most difficult. As Sunfire would probably stick to the air, Sebastain Shaw would be forced to hurl objects from the ground to try to force him down, and he would be successful at this.

Once on the ground, Sebastian Shaw would be able to use his stored up physical strenght and lay a beatdown on Sunfire that he would wish he was still in Japan making Playstations. Tough match, but Sebastian Shaw is a very formidable foe and not one to take lightly, more powers doesnt equal better character remember that.

Sebastian Shaw wins.

Phaedrus45

10-20-2006, 01:28 PM

IRON MAN VS. NIGHT THRASHER:

Ok, let's get the information on Night Thrasher out of the way:

"Immune to telepathy, skilled martial artist, advanced body armor."

There you go, that's it. First, his being immune to telepathy isn't a factor in the match-up at all. It's the last two that will play any importance on this match. And, if you think about it, with Tony's ability for flight, even Dwayne's skilled martial arts really won't even play a factor. So, that leaves us with one thing: Advanced Body Armor. Now, against many other foes, this might be something to take into account. But, let's look at the armor of Tony Stark.

Oh ..... yeah .... That's the thing. While Night Thrasher has only two sets of armor (which, he'd obviously bring his Mach II armor to the fight, and Tony would know that), Tony Stark has numerous styles to choose from:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Man%27s_armor

Wow...look at all that armor. And, here is the thing. Dwayne won't know what kind of fight he'll be expecting. While Tony will realize that Dwayne would be a fool to bring anything other than his heavier Mach II armor, Dwayne is going to be a deer caught in Iron Man's headlights.

Tony will know EVERYTHING about Night Thrasher. It's all in either the Avenger's database, or Tony would be able to easily access the appropriate information for a number of places. So, anything Night Thrasher's armor could do would, more than likely, be well documented.

Meanwhile, Tony Stark has developed numerous fail safes throughout the years on information about his own suits of armor. Everyone is aware of his need for privacy in his innovations....Dwayne wouldn't be able to even touch the tip of the iceberg on everything Tony has going for him.

This brings me to why I don't need to go into detailed explanations about how I will defeat Night Thrasher. Mainly, Night Thrasher won't know how. High in the himilayas, Dwayne won't know what's coming. And, coming from an opponent who's gone toe-to-toe with such great characters, like Dr. Doom, this will be an easy victory.

Winner: Iron Man

Hellstormer

10-20-2006, 10:32 PM

Match 4:

Magnus - Exiles (HELLSTORMER) bio (http://www.mutanthigh.com/alternatex/exiles/magnus.html)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_magnus.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=magnus.jpg&refPage=420&imgAnch=imgAnch438)

vs.

Ezekial (PHAEDRUS45) bio (http://www.spiderfan.org/characters/ezekiel.html)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_ezekiel.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=ezekiel.jpg&refPage=120&imgAnch=imgAnch131)You know what's funniest, the fact that the picture of Ezekial has "Deceased" at the bottom, meaning he wasn't good enough to beat someone. So how exactly can he beat someone as good as Magnus? Now to be completely honest, we didn't really get to see a lot of Magnus before...you know. But what was showns was impressive to say the least. Any organic matter he touches instantly turns to steel and since Ezekial really can't get information, neither can Magnus really since he was an Exiles pre-Crystal PLace, all Magnus has to do is get skin contact and he has a vast amount of magnetic power (maybe even beyond Magneto himself) which pretty much means he could take this guy pretty easy.

Harlekin

10-21-2006, 05:26 AM

Prodigy (Slingers) vs Donald Pierce

He still has to be able to get away from the guy in the first place and that depends on who has the faster reflexes, not how far you can get once you’ve broken free. Someone attached to a bungee cable may (?) be able to temporarily escape from Bruce Lee in a fight and get away very far and use the hit and run tactic in this way but it doesn’t actually help. Whenever the two of them come together they will both get the chance for a few quick hits before the guy escapes again. It doesn’t mean that the guy jumping in will get the better of the exchange at any point. I’d advise him to use the ability to get the hell out while he still can.
Thing is, Prodigy just needs to hit hard enough to make sure Pierce won't be able to retaliate by the time the next hit comes in. Prodigy is that kind of guy, swoop in, punch the **** out of the guy, move out of the way and continue it again. He's going to wear Pierce down. Sure, Pierce is the more intelligent one of the two, and he's certainly going to be getting a few hits in, but that doesn't give him the automatic win either. In order to outsmart someone, you're going to need the time to think up a strategy. Prodigy won't be letting up on Pierce for a second, hitting, pounding and making sure he doesn't get up again.

There’s finding info of the type that we get on the internet and there’s finding info that can be crucial to winning a fight. Yes, Pierce is famous but the Hellfire Club is an ultra secretive organisation. Everyone’s heard of them on a surface level but getting useful inside information is something that is way beyond this guy. Prodigy is obscure in the way that an ordinary human is. That doesn’t mean that it’s difficult in the technological age for a resourceful man with money and contacts to find the information he needs.
Info, really, that doesn't go beyond a few articles on the internet. Neither is going to benefit a lot from prep-time, since information will be scarce. I'll give you that Pierce will be able to act a lot better on the info he has, though.

Not sure how this follows from the above though.
I'm just saying that Prodigy won't be holding back.

The use of the word predictably is what makes this quote the more damning of the two.
It's A) the opinion of a Wikipedia editor, and b) not all that odd that he'd lose to Iron Man. Pierce would lose to Iron Man just as easily.

This sums up our boy. He’s just a juiced up jerk of a kid with little in the way of brains going up against a veteran foe of the X-Men who has seen it all.
Just because he's a juiced up jerk doesn't mean he can't win this. Sure, Donald's got him in the experience, but Prodigy's got the recklessness of youth. The recklessness that makes Prodigy capable of tearing off Pierce's arms if he gets pissed, and Prodigy gets pissed often.

What it really comes down to is if one thinks Prodigy is superior in physical prowess or not, and I think he is. Pierce has shown no extraordinary feats of strength or speed, relying primarily on his cybernetics, and more notably, his pals the Reavers, to take care of a foe. Prodigy's whole thing is that he has vast superhuman strength and likes to punch a lot.

And he's going to like punching Pierce's head off.

WINNER=PRODIGY

Phaedrus45

10-21-2006, 06:25 AM

Ezekial vs. Magnus-Exiles:

My absolute toughest match so far, and possibly the most difficult one I'll have all first round. It would take a one in a million chance to beat Magnus; but, if there is a chance to take him out, it's in this type of setting.

First, since these involve different timelines in each character's existance, they would both not have any information about each other. But, Ezekial actually would have an advantage in this area. For Magnus, the name "Ezekial" wouldn't mean a damn thing. But, someone as smart and knowledgable as Ezekial would be able to associate the name "Magnus" with Magneto. Putting two and two together, he'd realize he's probably facing someone with similiar powers.

Ezekial would know that he'd get one chance to take this character out. Using the shadows, he'd hide and stalk his prey. Not above killing to maintain his own survival, he'd go for the deathblow. I admit, he'll only get this one shot. If it doesn't work, Magnus would take him out no problem. But, Ezekial has the same powers as Spider-Man...just with more experience. He'd be quick on the attack.

So, I put this contest totally with the voters. Simply stated, if you think Ezekial would be able to get this one chance at Magnus, give him your vote.

Winner: Ezekial

Phaedrus45

10-21-2006, 06:30 AM

You know what's funniest, the fact that the picture of Ezekial has "Deceased" at the bottom, meaning he wasn't good enough to beat someone. So how exactly can he beat someone as good as Magnus? Now to be completely honest, we didn't really get to see a lot of Magnus before...you know. But what was showns was impressive to say the least. Any organic matter he touches instantly turns to steel and since Ezekial really can't get information, neither can Magnus really since he was an Exiles pre-Crystal PLace, all Magnus has to do is get skin contact and he has a vast amount of magnetic power (maybe even beyond Magneto himself) which pretty much means he could take this guy pretty easy.

Rebuttal:

I already gave the voters my one shot at winning this thing. But, I will point out that Ezekial evaded death for a long, long time. And, the only reason he did die was because he couldn't allow to have Peter die in his place.

As for the match, Ezekial, like I said, would go into it knowing he'd get one chance. The entire battle area is going to be metal the Magnus can use to finish Ezekial off. Ezekial will have one weapon; a weapon that would be used to kill Magnus. It will involve stealth and cunning. But, I do argue the fact that the name, Magnus, would give away somewhat Ezekial would have to do to walk away from this match.

Hellstormer

10-21-2006, 12:39 PM

As for the match, Ezekial, like I said, would go into it knowing he'd get one chance. The entire battle area is going to be metal the Magnus can use to finish Ezekial off. Ezekial will have one weapon; a weapon that would be used to kill Magnus. It will involve stealth and cunning. He can't be stealthy if Magnus just takes the entire field and crushes it into a ball.

Phaedrus45

10-21-2006, 03:56 PM

He can't be stealthy if Magnus just takes the entire field and crushes it into a ball.

Rebuttal:

But, the question would be if he'd actually do that. Plus, I doubt he'd be able to crush the entire area of Attilan. I've seen Magneto do some crazy stuff....but, never be able to destroy an entire city with his powers.

Hellstormer

10-21-2006, 04:27 PM

Rebuttal:

But, the question would be if he'd actually do that. Plus, I doubt he'd be able to crush the entire area of Attilan. I've seen Magneto do some crazy stuff....but, never be able to destroy an entire city with his powers.
Welll from the two appearences of Magnus he seemed to be pretty damn powerful and not above killing if it's towards the greater good and doesn't harm innocents so he might not do it if Attilan is populated. If not, Ezek's screwed.

Btw, Ezekial seems like an interesting character, did he have like a storyline or something that I could read?

Kitsune

10-21-2006, 04:41 PM

Iorn fist, because if he couldn't overwhelm Helix's abilities, it would mean HElix is too powerfull.
Stong Guy, because Goblin should still be in the grave.
Sasquach because Blizard is just a punk who wares an icemaker.
and Mastermind, because Dazler isn't known for mental strength.

Hellstormer

10-21-2006, 05:25 PM

JewishHobbit

10-21-2006, 07:28 PM

Sunfire (Famine) Vs Sebastian Shaw

Sebastian Shaw is a powerhouse, but this isn't a match of Power. I think that both characters would know a little of one another through their mutual relationships (love hate) with the X-Men. Shaw may be able to get more information on Sunfire than Sunfire can get on Shaw, and that is to Shaw's advantage. However, to Sunfire's advantage, he isn't exactly the same Sunfire that would be in Shaw's Hellfire Club files and information. Sunfire has gained the abilities of the horsemen, Famine, and Shaw would have no idea how that works.

So here's the idea. I figure that Famine will be more headlong into the battle, while Shaw is more caculated. Shaw will figure that if he can get Famine into a cave or somewhere where there is no flight, he will be able to take away his advantage of flight. The problem is that Sunfire has never been stupid. The battle will begin and though Shaw will try to draw him into a cave, Sunfire will torch their entrances to keep Shaw out in the open. He will also immediately begin to spread the Famine effect from the air, which will wound Shaw's thinking immediately. He will still function, but he will be gravely distracted.

The thing with Shaw is that he is empowered by Kinetic energy, and if he could get Sunfire into a physical confrontation, he'd get the advantage, but Sunfire has never been a physical fighter. He will pour on the flames and the Famine effect, and Shaw is immune to neither. His skin can still burn as easily as the rest of us, and it will. He will starve horribly and will have no relief, and it will take it's toll. The sunfire of the past has always had an attitude, but I'm not sure if he'd actually kill Shaw,... however, he is now a horsemen of apocalypse (or at least recovering) and he now has a meaner streak. He would have no problem killing Shaw if needed.

In the end, Shaw won't even be able to touch him. He may try to throw stuff, but it will be incinerated before it hits. Shaw may try to hurt himself to give himself strength, but he can still burn. In the end, Shaw has no chance.

Winner - Sunfire (Famine)

JewishHobbit

10-21-2006, 07:39 PM

Rebuttal

Now before I reply, I'm surprised how similar our accounts are. I want to clarify that I never read my oponant's write up before I write my own, so nothing in my story was in retaliation of this.

Sebastian Shaw takes down Sunfire.
In Attilan the two meet up, these two have some knowledge of each other and probably have fought before. The one distinct advantage Sunfire has is his ability to fly. Sunfire would be shooting plasma blasts at Shaw causing some damage but since its all kinetic (moving) energy, Shaw would be able to become stronger and endure more of his attacks. The trick here is for Sebastian Shaw not to be affacted by Sunfires optic attack, and that would prove most difficult. As Sunfire would probably stick to the air, Sebastain Shaw would be forced to hurl objects from the ground to try to force him down, and he would be successful at this.

My first thing is that I'm fairly certain that a blast of fire isn't kinetic at all. It isn't moving or causing anytype of movement, as it's just basically flames and energy. I dont' recall Shaw ever getting stronger by flames before (though if I'm wrong, I'm willing to admit it). I don't think the flames would strength Shaw at all, but even if it did, he'd become stronger and such, but he's still flesh and bone and would burn just as easily, especially at the heat that Sunfire has going for him. Shaw wouldn't have time to build up a resistance before being a puddle of blood and bones.

I can't think of any way possible that Shaw would be able to not be effected by the Famine attacks. He wouldnt know how they work or how to save himself from them, and since Sunfire can do it from great distances, Shaw would be effected from the first moment of battle to the last.

Shaw might be able to hit sunfire with something, but it'd be difficult. He'd only get stronger by either A) hurting himself in some way, but he'd have to hurt himself, between keeping himself from being blasted by Sunfire, a very difficult task, or B) Sunfire's flames (if they DO in fact strenghtin him) but as I said before, he's still not fire proof, and he'd be dead before he had the chance to benefit from the blasts. And even if he does manage to get strong enough to throw something hard enough to knock Sunfire from the sky, he'd still have to dodge Sunfire's attacks, focus through the famine effects (something that was proven extremely difficult to do), and hit Sunfire with something before he incinerates it. I just don't see Sunfire coming out of the sky in this.

Once on the ground, Sebastian Shaw would be able to use his stored up physical strenght and lay a beatdown on Sunfire that he would wish he was still in Japan making Playstations. Tough match, but Sebastian Shaw is a very formidable foe and not one to take lightly, more powers doesnt equal better character remember that.

I agree that if it came down to a fist fight, Shaw could get the best of Shiro, but I don't think it'd come to that. Even if it did, Shiro would still use his flames (as he always does) and Shaw would be burnt to a crisp before he can benefit from the attack.

Winner - Sunfire (Famine)

Phaedrus45

10-21-2006, 08:10 PM

Welll from the two appearences of Magnus he seemed to be pretty damn powerful and not above killing if it's towards the greater good and doesn't harm innocents so he might not do it if Attilan is populated. If not, Ezek's screwed.

Btw, Ezekial seems like an interesting character, did he have like a storyline or something that I could read?

Ezekial actually had an extensive storyline that appeared in Amazing Spider-Man. Due to numbering changes, I don't know how long it lasted. But, first appearance was AMS #30...then about 20 issues in, I think they switched back to the old numbering system. If I remember right, the storyline lasted a couple years.

Anyway, there isn't much I can debate with your character. Like I said, my only shot is that one chance. If the voters don't think he'd successed on the first attempt, then he won't get a second one. That's all I got.

JewishHobbit

10-21-2006, 08:25 PM

Straczynski's first trade had a lot of Ezekiel, as did the trade called "Book of Ezekiel." A lot of good stuff happened in the middle too, but not necessarilly tied into Ezekiel (moreso tied into his teachings). I have all the "Best of Spiderman" hardbacks that cover everything from Straczinski's first issue to current and it's all in there. Poeple criticize it for changing a bit of Peter's origin (I don't think it does at all really) but it's actually a good read.

Hellstormer

10-21-2006, 09:13 PM

Ezekial actually had an extensive storyline that appeared in Amazing Spider-Man. Due to numbering changes, I don't know how long it lasted. But, first appearance was AMS #30...then about 20 issues in, I think they switched back to the old numbering system. If I remember right, the storyline lasted a couple years.Ok after reaidng his full bio, not just the stats, it seemed like he ties into the recent Origin: Evolve or Die thing and he always ties into the society that Arana is in, so was his whole story an attempt at making Spiderman supernatural? I wonder if there are trades.

Anyway, there isn't much I can debate with your character. Like I said, my only shot is that one chance. If the voters don't think he'd successed on the first attempt, then he won't get a second one. That's all I got.Yea pretty one-sided battle, maybe even worse then Fenris vs. Blink.

Darthphere

10-21-2006, 09:28 PM

Rebuttal

Now before I reply, I'm surprised how similar our accounts are. I want to clarify that I never read my oponant's write up before I write my own, so nothing in my story was in retaliation of this.

My first thing is that I'm fairly certain that a blast of fire isn't kinetic at all. It isn't moving or causing anytype of movement, as it's just basically flames and energy. I dont' recall Shaw ever getting stronger by flames before (though if I'm wrong, I'm willing to admit it). I don't think the flames would strength Shaw at all, but even if it did, he'd become stronger and such, but he's still flesh and bone and would burn just as easily, especially at the heat that Sunfire has going for him. Shaw wouldn't have time to build up a resistance before being a puddle of blood and bones.

I can't think of any way possible that Shaw would be able to not be effected by the Famine attacks. He wouldnt know how they work or how to save himself from them, and since Sunfire can do it from great distances, Shaw would be effected from the first moment of battle to the last.

Shaw might be able to hit sunfire with something, but it'd be difficult. He'd only get stronger by either A) hurting himself in some way, but he'd have to hurt himself, between keeping himself from being blasted by Sunfire, a very difficult task, or B) Sunfire's flames (if they DO in fact strenghtin him) but as I said before, he's still not fire proof, and he'd be dead before he had the chance to benefit from the blasts. And even if he does manage to get strong enough to throw something hard enough to knock Sunfire from the sky, he'd still have to dodge Sunfire's attacks, focus through the famine effects (something that was proven extremely difficult to do), and hit Sunfire with something before he incinerates it. I just don't see Sunfire coming out of the sky in this.

I agree that if it came down to a fist fight, Shaw could get the best of Shiro, but I don't think it'd come to that. Even if it did, Shiro would still use his flames (as he always does) and Shaw would be burnt to a crisp before he can benefit from the attack.

Winner - Sunfire (Famine)

Kinetic is moving energy, the fire blast's energy itself is a different type of energy, but anything that moves has kinetic energy. Im no physicist, but thats what I remember from my Physics class. Also, the extent of the famine effect hasnt been measured to my recollection. I think its fair to say that he would have to be pretty close to put it into effect. Unless its been explicitly said, I dont think we can assume he can use it from large distances.

About Shaw being "flesh and bone" and being hurt, MAKAKKA! Most recently Colossus put a beat down on him and all he had was a little blood and a bruised cheek. Shaw can get extremely powerful hit to hit. I believe his endurance and dexterity would be high enough to withstand any assault from Sunfire.

To backtrack to the energy form part. I believe Shaw is able to harness the power of Cyclops optic blast and use that as kinetic energy and use his powers to that effect. I think its a coomn misconception he can only take physical hits as from a fist or something and use that.

It really just comes down to Sunfire's famine effect, which is the wildcard. We dont really know the extent of its use and if other past Horsemen are any indication, theyve never been unbeatable or that powerful. I still have faith that Shaw would be able to take down Sunfire but it be one hell of a fight.

JewishHobbit

10-22-2006, 05:56 PM

Kinetic is moving energy, the fire blast's energy itself is a different type of energy, but anything that moves has kinetic energy. Im no physicist, but thats what I remember from my Physics class. Also, the extent of the famine effect hasnt been measured to my recollection. I think its fair to say that he would have to be pretty close to put it into effect. Unless its been explicitly said, I dont think we can assume he can use it from large distances.

I'm still fairly certain that for something to be kinetic it needs to be a solid moving object, but I won't argue that as I'm not completely sure. The extent of Famine's attack was measured that all he had to do was fly in the sky (high in the sky at that) and every person on the ground, and even inside the Sentinels, was effected. It was enough to make people who KNOW Apocalypse is a dangerous enemy run to him for a cure (people like Sally Blevins and the Sentiel Drivers, etc.) Distance was no problem, and neither was barriors (sentinel armor). All they have to do is see him, and they're effected, and Shaw won't know not to look at him in a fight.

About Shaw being "flesh and bone" and being hurt, MAKAKKA! Most recently Colossus put a beat down on him and all he had was a little blood and a bruised cheek. Shaw can get extremely powerful hit to hit. I believe his endurance and dexterity would be high enough to withstand any assault from Sunfire.

Colossus did put a beatin on him, and it showed. His face was beaten and swallen and bruised. Face can hurt, fire can burn. Thing is, atomic fire beats metal anyday, and Sunfire has plenty to spare. if brick and stones and metal evaperates to Atomic fire, so will Sebastian Shaw.

To backtrack to the energy form part. I believe Shaw is able to harness the power of Cyclops optic blast and use that as kinetic energy and use his powers to that effect. I think its a coomn misconception he can only take physical hits as from a fist or something and use that.

Again, I'm not sure if Cyclops' blast can charge Shaw, but even if it could, it's explainable in that his blast is force, not heat or energy. It's like a HUGE punch (though commonl written wrong by writers). I can't think of a single example of him taking a pure energy hit and strengthening from it.

It really just comes down to Sunfire's famine effect, which is the wildcard. We dont really know the extent of its use and if other past Horsemen are any indication, theyve never been unbeatable or that powerful. I still have faith that Shaw would be able to take down Sunfire but it be one hell of a fight.

This has all been explained away above :up:

Phaedrus45

10-23-2006, 01:27 PM

bumpin' it all together

WOLVERINE25TH

10-23-2006, 07:23 PM

NIGHT THRASHER vs. IRON MAN

At first glance this seems like an uneven fight, but the simple fact is IM ISN'T infallable. He isn't perfect. He can't see the future. He can anticipate. He can prepare. But that only gets you so far.

Thrash has gone up against foes much tougher than him before, and he always managed to come out on top through his street smarts. Which, by the way, is also coupled with the fact that he is also SMART smart in terms of technology. While he's not in Stark's league mentally, nor in terms of equipment, he can give IM one helluva chase. Especially with the stealth mode built into his suit.

Thrash has broken into Star Industries once, she he has a good knowledge of Stark's technology and how to get around it. Let's not forget about Attilan's technology that he could help make use of and set up traps for IM. As stated last round, all technology has the same basic origins, so it'd be easy enough for him to figure out some devices or weapons that he could use in the prep time against IM. Also, he could lure IM into some kind of trap by having his adamantium cable in his armor set up as a kind of trip wire. Adamantium vs. iron, not a good matchup.

And as much as IM knows about Thrash, he could know just as much. IM is a public figure and he's not without his resources. Finding out any chinks in the armor, so to speak, should be fairly simple. Also, while IM does have hundreds of armors at his disposal, traditionally his main suit is what he brings to the table unless going against some significant threat (eg Hulk or Thor). There would be some overconfidence on IM's part there, as my opponent was so kind to display for me. :P

WINNER: THRASH

Phaedrus45

10-23-2006, 09:13 PM

Rebuttal:

NIGHT THRASHER vs. IRON MAN

At first glance this seems like an uneven fight, but the simple fact is IM ISN'T infallable. He isn't perfect. He can't see the future. He can anticipate. He can prepare. But that only gets you so far.

For Tony Stark, that would be more than enough to go against a B-lister who is pretty much forgotten in the 616.

Thrash has gone up against foes much tougher than him before, and he always managed to come out on top through his street smarts. Which, by the way, is also coupled with the fact that he is also SMART smart in terms of technology. While he's not in Stark's league mentally, nor in terms of equipment, he can give IM one helluva chase. Especially with the stealth mode built into his suit.

Actually, much is left out of that first sentence. It should read "Thrash AND THE ENTIRE NEW WARRIORS HAVE gone up against foes much tougher than him." That is much more appropriate. But, history is the biggest indicator to what will happen in the future. From New Warriors, Vol. 2, issue #9, the entire New Warriors face a rogue Iron Man and are promptly defeated, before Tony Stark can regain control himself. Sure, Night Thrasher wasn't involved in this issue; but, it goes to show how powerful even a rogue Iron Man is compared to Night Thrasher's group.

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/large/56865279828.9.gif (http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=fullsize&issue=56865279828%209)

Also, Night Thrasher's "stealth mode" would not be effective with Tony's armor. Tony would know about the stealth mode in the Mach II armor, and be ready for it. After all, Dwayne's technology is nowhere near the level of Stark's.

Thrash has broken into Star Industries once, she he has a good knowledge of Stark's technology and how to get around it. Let's not forget about Attilan's technology that he could help make use of and set up traps for IM. As stated last round, all technology has the same basic origins, so it'd be easy enough for him to figure out some devices or weapons that he could use in the prep time against IM. Also, he could lure IM into some kind of trap by having his adamantium cable in his armor set up as a kind of trip wire. Adamantium vs. iron, not a good matchup.

First, Tony wouldn't be walking around to fall over a trip wire. (Heck, I can't remember Tony ever falling for a trip wire, anyway.) Second, Tony is all about security. There isn't a chance that Dwayne would have relevant information on Iron Man. Third, as pointed out, Night Thrasher's stealth would be no match for Iron Man's detection equipment. I'm highly doubting that Dwayne could even hide from Tony's sensors.

And as much as IM knows about Thrash, he could know just as much. IM is a public figure and he's not without his resources. Finding out any chinks in the armor, so to speak, should be fairly simple. Also, while IM does have hundreds of armors at his disposal, traditionally his main suit is what he brings to the table unless going against some significant threat (eg Hulk or Thor). There would be some overconfidence on IM's part there, as my opponent was so kind to display for me. :P

False. I am without a doubt positive that Night Thrasher could find anywhere near as much as Tony. It's never been shown in any of the comics that Night Thrasher has those resources, and I'm pretty sure he lost a lot of his money in one of the last appearances I remember by him.

Winner = Iron Man

Iceman

10-23-2006, 09:56 PM

Rebuttal: Prodigy (Slingers) vs Donald Pierce

Thing is, Prodigy just needs to hit hard enough to make sure Pierce won't be able to retaliate by the time the next hit comes in. Prodigy is that kind of guy, swoop in, punch the **** out of the guy, move out of the way and continue it again. He's going to wear Pierce down. Sure, Pierce is the more intelligent one of the two, and he's certainly going to be getting a few hits in, but that doesn't give him the automatic win either. In order to outsmart someone, you're going to need the time to think up a strategy. Prodigy won't be letting up on Pierce for a second, hitting, pounding and making sure he doesn't get up again.If Prodigy is going to keep jumping/flying away (re the hit and run tactic that we were discussing), then he is letting up. If Pierce doesn’t get up, there’s no reason for Prodigy to jump/fly away so this doesn’t really offer an advantage to either character. As for time required to think up a strategy I’d expect both guys to be capable of thinking up strategies on their feet as the fight progresses (most comic characters seem to be able to do this). The difference is that the vastly experienced Pierce’s analysis and assessment of the situation will be far superior.

Info, really, that doesn't go beyond a few articles on the internet. Neither is going to benefit a lot from prep-time, since information will be scarce. I'll give you that Pierce will be able to act a lot better on the info he has, though.I would suggest Pierce is capable of going a lot further than internet articles. Even a normal guy with enough money can trace and infiltrate the inner circle of a regular guy attending high school, especially one as indiscreet as Prodigy. As we've established that the guy is a bit of a jerk, I bet people would be queuing up to give up bits of info at the right price (and facing the appropriate level of threat) that might lead to useful information. Some of Pierce’s Hellfire contacts collate intelligence as part of their daily work and would be able to help him analyse any weaknesses that they know of or discover from these or any other efforts. With whatever he manages to dig up (even if nothing) he can use his tech (from 200 yrs in the future - sorry to repeat points) and “genius” mechanical mind to enhance his cybernetic body to the ideal specification for his opponent.

(Ignore the above if any of the actions are not allowed during prep time.)
I'm just saying that Prodigy won't be holding back.OK. I won't dispute that. Pierce obviously has no reason to hold back either.

It's A) the opinion of a Wikipedia editor, and b) not all that odd that he'd lose to Iron Man. Pierce would lose to Iron Man just as easily.a) I'm guessing a fair number of arguments make use of Wikipedia entries, especially for the characters with which people are less familiar. The match threads link to wikipedia bios so we have to assume that the opinions carry some weight. Even the comics disagree on the extent of character's powers and who would win various fights, more so as writers change. The summaries and desriptions of powers etc could also be incorrect/exaggerated but I'm assuming that wikipedia is being treated as a trusted secondary source to the comics. Saying that, I’m happy to discount anything from the site if everyone else agrees to do the same.

b) I don’t think it would be as easy as the defeat of Prodigy but I better stop here as I'm only expressing my own opinions.

Just because he's a juiced up jerk doesn't mean he can't win this.True.
Sure, Donald's got him in the experience, but Prodigy's got the recklessness of youth. The recklessness that makes Prodigy capable of tearing off Pierce's arms if he gets pissed, and Prodigy gets pissed often. Hannibal Lecter will tell you that recklessness is not a requirement to be capable of mutilation. A guy like Pierce who can be mutilated without feeling pain/being overly affected will not be too worried at the prospect. But yeah, Prodigy certainly does get pissed often.
What it really comes down to is if one thinks Prodigy is superior in physical prowess or not, and I think he is. Pierce has shown no extraordinary feats of strength or speed, relying primarily on his cybernetics, and more notably, his pals the Reavers, to take care of a foe. Prodigy's whole thing is that he has vast superhuman strength and likes to punch a lot.If this was a straight fight based only on strength (and Pierce’s brain, tech and other advantages were somehow switched off) I’d give your boy a chance. I can’t say for sure that Pierce is stronger so I won’t.

And he's going to like punching Pierce's head off.
I can't argue with that. If Prodigy had the ability, he would definitely enjoy it, and more than most. :woot:

A pleasure debating with you :up:

WINNER=DONALD PIERCE

Harlekin

10-24-2006, 01:28 AM

Prodigy (Slingers) vs Donald Pierce[/U]

If Prodigy is going to keep jumping/flying away (re the hit and run tactic that we were discussing), then he is letting up. If Pierce doesn’t get up, there’s no reason for Prodigy to jump/fly away so this doesn’t really offer an advantage to either character.
Extra momentum for harder hits.

As for time required to think up a strategy I’d expect both guys to be capable of thinking up strategies on their feet as the fight progresses (most comic characters seem to be able to do this). The difference is that the vastly experienced Pierce’s analysis and assessment of the situation will be far superior.
I'll give you that Pierce is probably the superior tactician.

(Ignore the above if any of the actions are not allowed during prep time.)
T'is ignored. ;) I'm pretty sure they are wholly dependant on themselves.

a) I'm guessing a fair number of arguments make use of Wikipedia entries, especially for the characters with which people are less familiar. The match threads link to wikipedia bios so we have to assume that the opinions carry some weight. Even the comics disagree on the extent of character's powers and who would win various fights, more so as writers change. The summaries and desriptions of powers etc could also be incorrect/exaggerated but I'm assuming that wikipedia is being treated as a trusted secondary source to the comics. Saying that, I’m happy to discount anything from the site if everyone else agrees to do the same.
Wikipedia is a great source of information, but never for opinions. Heck, opinions aren't even actually allowed per Neutral Point Of View policy (NPOV for short). When you get down to it, most editors at Wikipedia (myself included) are rather biased, so comments that put a certain value to something (such as predictably) should be ignored.

If this was a straight fight based only on strength (and Pierce’s brain, tech and other advantages were somehow switched off) I’d give your boy a chance. I can’t say for sure that Pierce is stronger so I won’t.
I can't say for certain either, but Prodigy is certainly someone who's relied on his strength more often than not.

A pleasure debating with you :up:
Certainly, till we face one another again. :up:

WINNER=PRODIGY

Phaedrus45

10-24-2006, 02:10 PM

Voting May Begin!

Darthphere

10-24-2006, 02:46 PM

Prodigy
Iron Man
Sebastian Shaw
Magnus

hippy fascist

10-24-2006, 02:47 PM

Prodigy
Sebastian Shaw
Ezekial
Night Thrasher (I hate Iron Man, not the fairest criteria but... these things happen :o )

wiegeabo

10-24-2006, 03:13 PM

Donald Pierce
Iron Man (should be a really good fight to watch)
Sunfire
Magnus (as much as I want it to go to Ezekial, not sure it would)

Phaedrus45

10-24-2006, 04:26 PM

*Donald Pierce

*Iron Man

*Sunfire - Famine

*Ezekial

kytrigger

10-24-2006, 04:57 PM

Magnus
Iron Man
Sunfire
Donal Pierce

Darthphere

10-24-2006, 05:56 PM

How much is Jewhob paying you all?

Harlekin

10-24-2006, 06:47 PM

Prodigy (Slingers) - For obvious reasons
Iron Man - Trasher sadly doesn't stand much of a chance
Sunfire (Famine) - While absorbing the energy, Shaw would get burned to death, but nicely debated by both
Magnus (Exiles) - Sorry, but I don't think Ezekial could pull it off

Hellstormer

10-24-2006, 07:35 PM

Prodigy

Iron Man

Sebastion Shaw

Magnus

Iceman

10-24-2006, 08:27 PM

Donald Pierce
Iron Man
Sunfire
Magnus

Phaedrus45

10-24-2006, 11:22 PM

Results So Far:

Prodigy currently tied with Donald Pierce 4-4
Iron Man currently beating Night Thrasher 7-1
Sunfire currently beating Sebastian Shaw 5-3
Magnus currently beating Ezekial 6-2

Ahura Mazda

10-25-2006, 02:41 AM

Prodigy - good debate but if he got beaten by Wolverine....

Iron Man

Sunfire - A blast of fire would be kinetic energy but a furnace would not, plus I doubt the famine effect would have kinetic energy attached to it

Magnus - Sorry cannot see Ezekial taking this as magnus could just float far above the ground and take apart everything metallic until he finds ezekial

Zoken

10-25-2006, 06:09 AM

Donald Peirce
Sunfire
Iron Man
Magnus

WOLVERINE25TH

10-25-2006, 09:04 AM

Pierce
Sunfire
Night Thrasher
Magnus

Phaedrus45

10-25-2006, 10:40 AM

Results So Far:

Donald Pierce currently beating Prodigy 6-5
Iron Man currently beating Night Thrasher 9-2
Sunfire currently beating Sebastian Shaw 8-3
Magnus currently beating Ezekial 9-2

Darren Daring

10-25-2006, 10:42 AM

Prodigy
Iron Man
Sunfire
Magnus

JewishHobbit

10-25-2006, 07:40 PM

Magnus
Sunfire (Famine)
Iron Man
Donald Pierce - (Tough one for me, as I wanted to vote for Prodigy, but I think that in the end, Pierce would pull it off. Good debates on both ends :up:)

DarkHellRider

10-26-2006, 09:10 AM

prodigy
Iron Man
Sunfire
Magnus

Phaedrus45

10-26-2006, 10:23 AM

Final Results:

Donald Pierce tied with Prodigy 7-7
Iron Man beat Night Thrasher 12-2
Sunfire beat Sebastian Shaw 11-3
Magnus beat Ezekial 12-2

Phaedrus45

10-26-2006, 10:52 PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/JewishHobbit/CoM.jpg

BRACKET 1,

Match 5:

Hank Pym (MIDNIGHT ICE) bio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Pym)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_250px-AvengersIII59.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=250px-AvengersIII59.jpg&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch1)

vs.

Jack Of Hearts (PHAEDRUS45) bio (http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/j/jackofhearts.htm)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_jackofhearts.gif (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=jackofhearts.gif&refPage=60&imgAnch=imgAnch61)

Match 6:

Deathlok (HIPPY FASCIST) bio (http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/d/deathlok.htm)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_deathlok.gif (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=deathlok.gif&refPage=80&imgAnch=imgAnch91)

vs.

Marrow (ICEMAN/PSYLOCKE) bio (http://www.mutanthigh.com/marrow.html)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_marrow.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=marrow.jpg&refPage=100&imgAnch=imgAnch116)

Phaedrus45

10-27-2006, 12:07 AM

BRACKET 2,

Match 5:

Gladiator II (ICEMAN/PSYLOCKE) bio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladiator_(Daredevil_character))

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_200px-Thegladiatordaredevil.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=200px-Thegladiatordaredevil.jpg&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch1)

vs.

Topher (ZOKEN) bio (http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix3/topherrunaways.htm)

(no picture available)

Match 6:

Halloween Jack (AHURA MAZDA) bio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween_Jack_(comics))

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_250px-Xmen2099-21.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=250px-Xmen2099-21.jpg&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch1)

vs.

Thunderbird III (JEWISHHOBBIT) bio (http://www.mutanthigh.com/thunderbirdIII.html)

[/URL]
http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_200px-ThunderIII.png (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=thunderbird.gif&refPage=300&imgAnch=imgAnch317)[URL="http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=thunderbird.gif&refPage=300&imgAnch=imgAnch317"]

Phaedrus45

10-27-2006, 12:13 AM

REMATCH:

Prodigy - Slingers (HARLEKIN) bio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prodigy_(comics))

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_Prodigy.gif (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=Prodigy.gif&refPage=400&imgAnch=imgAnch409)

vs.

Donald Pierce (ICEMAN/PSYLOCKE) bio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Pierce)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_pierce2-1.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=pierce2-1.jpg&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch1)

Phaedrus45

10-27-2006, 12:27 AM

LOCATION: Transia

Transia is a fictional European (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe) country on the Earth of the Marvel Universe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_of_the_Marvel_Universe). It is located between Transylvania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transylvania), Romania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romania) and Yugoslavia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslavia). More than 90% of its people live in one large town (East Transia) and a number of smaller villages located at the base of Mount Wundagore (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mount_Wundagore&action=edit).
Tranisa was a former section of Wallachia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallachia) before that country integrated with Moldavia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldavia) in 1857 to form Romania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romania). Transia broke with the two larger countries and established its status as an independent state, and was recognized 20 years later as an autonomous, neutral nation. Transia is governed by an elected official (burgomeister) who is bound by law to follow the country's constitution to the letter. The nation's main source of income comes from the uranium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium) found in and around Mt. Wundagore -- Herbert Edgar Wyndham (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Evolutionary) funded a national non-profit trust with the money gathered from his uranium mine that still provides money for Transia to operate its government programs, and thus they have no need of outside investors or a tourist market (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism). This, along with the (intentionally-fostered) negative international image, keeps many foreigners out of Transia.
Transia (and/or Mt. Wundagore) is where Chthon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chthon_%28comics%29) is imprisoned, and was where the men of the Russoff line (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werewolf_by_Night) were afflicted with the curse of lycanthropy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lycanthropy). It was also the birthplace of Quicksilver (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quicksilver_%28comics%29) and the Scarlet Witch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarlet_Witch), and of Jessica Drew (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider-Woman_%28Jessica_Drew%29). It was the base of operations for the High Evolutionary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Evolutionary), and the source of the "radioactive clay" used by the Puppet Master (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puppet_Master_%28comics%29).

SIDENOTE: People inhabit the village; but, you can expect them to be hiding in their dwellings. Mt. Wundagore is not off-limits; but, the High Evolutionary's base is not there any longer. Neither is the radioactive clay that the Puppet Master uses.

Harlekin

10-27-2006, 02:38 AM

REMATCH: Prodigy vs Donald Pierce

Okay, we had a tie last week which I hope to avoid this time, so here we go.

Why Prodigy would win, by Harlekin:
- Neither combatant has any definitive advantage by facing each other again, except they know what the other one is capable of enduring. That just ensures they hit each other a lot harder. Beyond that, neither could still do a lot during preptime, since they really haven't gained any info about one another.
- Donald Pierce is a dirty communist.
- Prodigy likes to beat people up, a lot and with righteous vengeance. This is payback for the tie last time, and Prodigy will stop at nothing at getting the win. Imagine the most competitive jock in your school or at work, that's Prodigy. He's a *****, but he gets the job done.
- Donald Pierce is still a dirty commie.
- My opponent will undoubtedly tell you that Pierce can now use Prodigy's weaknesses against him. A good point, except the only weakness Prodigy really has a psychic one, namely, he's prone to irrational and recklessness behaviour. This can both aid and really hurt Pierce, because we're talking a grand asswhooping here if he doesn't watch out.
- In closing, Prodigy took on Iron Man while drunk. HOW COOL IS THAT!?

WINNER=PRODIGY

Ahura Mazda

10-27-2006, 03:10 AM

Match 6:

Halloween Jack (AHURA MAZDA) bio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween_Jack_(comics))

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_250px-Xmen2099-21.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=250px-Xmen2099-21.jpg&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch1)

vs.

Thunderbird III (JEWISHHOBBIT) bio (http://www.mutanthigh.com/thunderbirdIII.html)

[/URL]
http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_200px-ThunderIII.png (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=thunderbird.gif&refPage=300&imgAnch=imgAnch317)

What do we know about Halloween Jack. He is a different version of Loki with extensive shape shifting powers and power absorption. Also, he remembers and can reproduce all the powers he has stolen before. He is however a bit insane. I would say think of the movie character The Mask and add absorption powers to him. Now Thunderbird is a powerful being but he is going up against an insane shape-shifting, power absorbing, magic using god–like being.

Of course, thunderbird would not have a clue who Halloween Jack is as he is a 2099 character whereas HJ would know about Thunderstrike as a historical character.

The way I see this battle happening is for Thunderbird using flight will go searching for Halloween Jack. Of course, he has no idea what he is searching for because HJ could just as easily be in the form of a fly or a cow. As Halloween Jack has the powers of [URL=" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meanstreak_%28comics%29 "]Meanstreak (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=thunderbird.gif&refPage=300&imgAnch=imgAnch317), among others, he can use whatever form he is in and super speed over to Thunderbird and simply touch him…at that touch he also gains all of Thunderbird’s powers. The battle could only go one way and that is the defeat of Thunderbird.

I would just like to note one thing, Halloween Jack was the villain of the 2099 X-Men series……yes it was him against all of the X-Men of that timeline and he was formidable.

Winner: Halloween Jack

Zoken

10-27-2006, 03:18 AM

Topher

if at night
Topher is a vampire, but an enhanced vampire. Flames don't kill him and removing his heart doesn't kill him. only sunlight does. while Gladiator may be an excellent martial artist, he's not going to stand a chance against somone who's been doing this for 90 years. especially since Topher can heal like deadpool.

During the day...

... he sends minions?

JewishHobbit

10-27-2006, 10:20 AM

Thunderbird III Vs Halloween Jack

Now this is a tough match for me to debate because I love Jack oh so much,... but alas, he must die!

Neither of these characters will be aided by the location, and neither will know anything about one another. Jack is from the future, and though he is currently in the main 616 timeline, he hasn't been seen since his first appeaance in an issue of X-Force. Anyhow, he's from the future, but it was well known that little was known of the heroic age, save some names and faces. They knew some of the main names like Spiderman, Xavier, and Magneto, but many of the other names were lost through the years. I'd be hard pressed to believe that a little name like Thunderbird III would survive all those years.

Now, that being said we have both parties showing up in this town that is inhabited. Neal wouldn't provide much of a threat, and Jack isn't one to just cause turmoil, until he's ready for it. He'd be flying around as a bird, or just disguised as a person, until he finds Neal. He would then study him, but Neal would have no reason to use his power, so Neal would get nothing from him that way. Jack isn't a man of patience, so he would eventually just show himself, probably in the form of a bird or beast, or child with a knife, etc.

Talk would ensue and finally I picture Jack endangering a human life to force Neal into using his powers. He'd would do so, firing off a bit of plasma to the ground, and Jack would have his answer.

All is going Jack's way so far, but the thing is that Neal is no dummy. He was trained by the best of the X-Men in Jean and Cable, then Xavier, then Storm and lastely Bishop. He would know that Jack is trying to gage his powers, and so he showed them... but not all of them. Jack would know that he can shoot plasma, but Neal hadn't shown him that he can actually turn his form into Plasma.

The way I see it, Jack would take advantage of this and keep the hostage as a shield until he strikes in the form of a snake or something quick. He would quickly attack and flea, attack and flea, etc. Probably taking the forms of a snake, a beast, a bird, etc. I know that he can retain the powers of another person copied, but I actually do not remember him ever using that ability in the comics. He mostly just turned into animals or beasts and that was it. He never used Meanstreak's speed, and he was around him constantly. So I don't think he'd use that much. Also, Jack is smart, very smart, but he's also impulsive and cocky, and that will be what gets the best of him.

Anyhow, I won't go through the details of the match, but Jack would be attacking while dodging Neal's plasma blasts. Jack's fast, but he's not fire proof. Then Neal will see the time is right, an as Jack comes in for another physical assault, Neal will turn a part or all of himself into Plasma last minute, and Jack will get a heck of a burn. He will run away partially in flames, but Neal will douse him with a waterhose or something (not wanting to kill him), and as Jack is recovering, a few decent punches will render him unconscious.

Winner - Thunderbird III

Ahura Mazda

10-27-2006, 10:40 AM

Rebuttal

Thunderbird III Vs Halloween Jack

Now this is a tough match for me to debate because I love Jack oh so much,... but alas, he must die!

No he does not ...let me tell you why ;)

Neither of these characters will be aided by the location, and neither will know anything about one another. Jack is from the future, and though he is currently in the main 616 timeline, he hasn't been seen since his first appeaance in an issue of X-Force.

I will admit it is unlikely but not impossible that he knows but that really does not matter.....in any case as you say thunderbird would know nothing....

Now, that being said we have both parties showing up in this town that is inhabited. Neal wouldn't provide much of a threat, and Jack isn't one to just cause turmoil, until he's ready for it. He'd be flying around as a bird, or just disguised as a person, until he finds Neal. He would then study him, but Neal would have no reason to use his power, so Neal would get nothing from him that way. Jack isn't a man of patience, so he would eventually just show himself, probably in the form of a bird or beast, or child with a knife, etc.

You seem to forget something as soon as Halloween Jack touches him he gains use of his powers as well as his psyche and knowledge of said powers. A bit like Rogue...

Talk would ensue and finally I picture Jack endangering a human life to force Neal into using his powers. He'd would do so, firing off a bit of plasma to the ground, and Jack would have his answer.

All is going Jack's way so far, but the thing is that Neal is no dummy. He was trained by the best of the X-Men in Jean and Cable, then Xavier, then Storm and lastely Bishop. He would know that Jack is trying to gage his powers, and so he showed them... but not all of them. Jack would know that he can shoot plasma, but Neal hadn't shown him that he can actually turn his form into Plasma.

The way I see it, Jack would take advantage of this and keep the hostage as a shield until he strikes in the form of a snake or something quick. He would quickly attack and flea, attack and flea, etc. Probably taking the forms of a snake, a beast, a bird, etc. I know that he can retain the powers of another person copied, but I actually do not remember him ever using that ability in the comics. He mostly just turned into animals or beasts and that was it. He never used Meanstreak's speed, and he was around him constantly. So I don't think he'd use that much. Also, Jack is smart, very smart.

The thing is in the comics he is rarely put in a position where he needs to but in this scenario you know he could. Plus he would have full knowledge of Thunderbird just from a touch which he can take looking like a child as you so eloquently mention. Once he touches him he will have full use of his powers plus all the other powers he already has use of. I also would like to put forward that he necessarily has meanstreak's powers as he has touched him many times. He just never needed to use them.

Also as you say he mostly used his changing into well known forms but mostly is not always and when circumstances demand it Halloween Jack can be very powerful. One wehere he is a match for the full x-men.

Therefore with plasma powers, superstrength, superspeed, shape shifting abilities, and a true devlish streak Halloween Jack would take this.

Lets not forget, Halloween Jack is endowed with the full powers of Loki among others, as well.

JewishHobbit

10-27-2006, 10:42 AM

REBUTTAL

What do we know about Halloween Jack. He is a different version of Loki with extensive shape shifting powers and power absorption. Also, he remembers and can reproduce all the powers he has stolen before. He is however a bit insane. I would say think of the movie character The Mask and add absorption powers to him. Now Thunderbird is a powerful being but he is going up against an insane shape-shifting, power absorbing, magic using god–like being.

The Mask is a great comparison!

Of course, thunderbird would not have a clue who Halloween Jack is as he is a 2099 character whereas HJ would know about Thunderstrike as a historical character.

As mentioned in my debate, the heroes of the 20th century weren't as well known. Main names were known, but not minor ones. Heck, when Miguel O'hara brought up Spiderman, most didn't know who he was talking about. A minor name like Thunderbird wouldn't be remembered, I think it's safe to say.

The way I see this battle happening is for Thunderbird using flight will go searching for Halloween Jack. Of course, he has no idea what he is searching for because HJ could just as easily be in the form of a fly or a cow. As Halloween Jack has the powers of Meanstreak ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meanstreak_%28comics%29 ), among others, he can use whatever form he is in and super speed over to Thunderbird and simply touch him…at that touch he also gains all of Thunderbird’s powers. The battle could only go one way and that is the defeat of Thunderbird.

Not a bad idea but Jack seldom used other people's powers (truth is, I can't remember one time where he did). I know that the bios say he can do this, and he probably could, but it didn't happen enough to where it was common, so him doing it so much in this match would be unlike him and a bit of a stretch.

I would just like to note one thing, Halloween Jack was the villain of the 2099 X-Men series……yes it was him against all of the X-Men of that timeline and he was formidable.

Jack was a great character, but he's not as formidable as it sounds. First off, he never faced all the X-Men. He took out Luna with a surprise attack, and then pursuaded Meanstreak to follow him to Vegas. Then at vegas he fought Meanstreak and Krystalin, and lost. That was the only time he's faught the X-Men. While in Vegas we see him fight the Enforcers, but they're pretty much a joke, so that wasn't anything big, and he had Meanstreak's help at that. Then he fought a huge brute guy and was losing until Meanstreak saved his butt. Big Brute guy attacked again later, but Doom killed him without hesitation. After Krystalin and Meanstreak's defeating him in Vegas, that was the last we saw him in the X-Men 2099 book. Now there's a continuity err after that, but both stories dont' make Jack look very good either. The world was flooded by Atlantis, and the heroes of the world fled. Jack became a contestant in Vulture 2099's arena of death, and in it he coward and was killed by one punch by a bahemoth character. Not good for Jack. The other side of the continuity err was that when the world was flooding, he traveled back to the heroic age (current age). He fell in love with Domino and sadistically tried to capture her. Domino single handedly kicked the crap out of him... and Domino sucks. That's not saying much for Jack.

In truth, I don't think Jack ever won a fight on his own, with the exception of his attacking Luna from behind. So far he has a wonderfully embaressing record... what will it be when he's forced to face Thunderbird, a trained X-Man? Just a bunch of the same embaressment!

Winner - Thunderbird

JewishHobbit

10-27-2006, 10:57 AM

Rebuttal

No he does not ...let me tell you why ;)

Sure he does... let me tell you why ;)

I will admit it is unlikely but not impossible that he knows but that really does not matter.....in any case as you say thunderbird would know nothing....

This is true, and I'll grant you the touching thing... so we'll let this point go.

You seem to forget something as soon as Halloween Jack touches him he gains use of his powers as well as his psyche and knowledge of said powers. A bit like Rogue...

Again, I'll let this go also. I don't remember it ever stated in the comics, but since I've read several bios mentioning it, I'll let it ride.

The thing is in the comics he is rarely put in a position where he needs to but in this scenario you know he could. Plus he would have full knowledge of Thunderbird just from a touch which he can take looking like a child as you so eloquently mention. Once he touches him he will have full use of his powers plus all the other powers he already has use of. I also would like to put forward that he necessarily has meanstreak's powers as he has touched him many times. He just never needed to use them.

Okay, deal... I like the idea of him becoming a child and touching him to get his powers. That could work well, and I can see him doing that. However, would he actually use the powers? Or Meansteaks? The thing is, he could have used them against the brute that attacked him (Lynton Synge I think his name was) but he didn't. He jumped around all agile like for a while, but in the end he was being choked in a headlock begging the guards to shoot the man... and then Meanstreak came along and saved him. He obviously didn't use speed there. Why would he use it in this match?

Also, he would probably then know that Neal can turn into Plasma, but can he predict when it'd happen? No. He has to attack somehow, and that means he has to get physical. Now, he can get burnt close up when the time is right (as he has been hit in mid attack before) or he can get burnt when a plasma blast hits him. Remember, Neal's plasma blasts are extremely quick, like a lazer beam. It isn't slow sludgy stuff. Jack could dodge it for a while, but eventually he'll mess up. And if he KNOWS that Neal can turn into Plasma, he'd be more hardpressed to come in close for a physical attack, which is about all he's good for.

Also as you say he mostly used his changing into well known forms but mostly is not always and when circumstances demand it Halloween Jack can be very powerful. One wehere he is a match for the full x-men.

Again, he never once took on the full X-Men. The most he ever took on was 2, and he lost. In fact, with the exception of a sneak attack on Luna, he's lost every fight he's been in unless he had help.

Therefore with plasma powers, superstrength, superspeed, shape shifting abilities, and a true devlish streak Halloween Jack would take this.

He would be a heck of a threat, but he's never utilized his might in the comics, and it goes to say he wouldn't here either. Heck, he wanted to take on Doom when he became President of the United States, and did squat. He spouted threats and promises, but no attack. Why? Because Jack is all talk no bight!

Lets not forget, Halloween Jack is endowed with the full powers of Loki among others, as well.

Granted, but he did away with the Loki stuff when he became Jack. He said that if he was to be a monster, he'd be a monster of his own choosing. From that point on he never mentioned or did anything regarding Loki again (save the shape changing). Anything beyond the shape changing, would be a moot factor for this match.

Winner - Thunderbird III

PS... go read X-Men 2099 everyone.... it's one of my favorate series' of all time!!!

Phaedrus45

10-27-2006, 11:07 AM

JACK OF HEARTS

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/large/43244807260.1.gif (http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=fullsize&issue=43244807260%201)

vs.

Hank Pym

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/large/05815547774.230.gif (http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=fullsize&issue=05815547774%20230)

This is a very interesting match-up. Both characters are former Avengers, and will have plenty of access to each other's files. All their history will become available. The difference is shown in the pictures above. Clearly, for anyone who's been reading Avengers for as long as I have, know that Hank Pym has yet to become the man he once was. This is a man who is still effected by his physical abuse towards Jan, and that will only be of use to Jack Of Hearts in this battle. Let me play out the scenario of this week:

The setting: Transia. The people: Hank Pym and Jack Of Hearts. Flash forward 24 hours. Prep time is over. Jack of Hearts and Hank Pym are wisked away to Transia, where the population is cowering for fear in their little houses. Flying in the air, Jack knows that Hank's bright yellow costume will only help to give him away. But, Hank cannot reach the Jack Of Hearts; for, even if Hank makes a device allowing him flight, he simply doesn't have the training, experience, or durability of Jack Of Hearts.

Bellowing below, Jack Of Hearts yells, "Hank! Come out, Hank. You don't want to hurt these people like you did Jan! We can take care of this, man to man. Let's not have innocent people getting hurt. Let's make this fight fair...let's not hurt innocent people, like the way you hurt Jan." The comment about Janet will sting Hank worse than anything The Wasp has ever given to a villian. And, when his fear of hurting others effect him, he will be the most easy of targets.

(And, even if the above scenario doesn't play out, there really isn't much that Hank Pym could do against Jack Of Hearts. Not only power-wise, but I ask the voters to look at how little Hank Pym has accomplished since he left the Avengers in disgrace.)

Winner: Jack Of Hearts

Ahura Mazda

10-27-2006, 11:16 AM

The Mask is a great comparison!

Thanks at least we agree on something :cwink:

As mentioned in my debate, the heroes of the 20th century weren't as well known. Main names were known, but not minor ones. Heck, when Miguel O'hara brought up Spiderman, most didn't know who he was talking about. A minor name like Thunderbird wouldn't be remembered, I think it's safe to say.

As you will read in my rebuttal of your statements I concede this point and am willing to go with the possibility that he does not know know thunderbird either.

Not a bad idea but Jack seldom used other people's powers (truth is, I can't remember one time where he did). I know that the bios say he can do this, and he probably could, but it didn't happen enough to where it was common, so him doing it so much in this match would be unlike him and a bit of a stretch.

the thing is he can use them and as you will read above I put forward that in an extreme condition like this battle he can. He is smart enough to.

Jack was a great character, but he's not as formidable as it sounds. First off, he never faced all the X-Men. He took out Luna with a surprise attack, and then pursuaded Meanstreak to follow him to Vegas. Then at vegas he fought Meanstreak and Krystalin, and lost. That was the only time he's faught the X-Men. While in Vegas we see him fight the Enforcers, but they're pretty much a joke, so that wasn't anything big, and he had Meanstreak's help at that. Then he fought a huge brute guy and was losing until Meanstreak saved his butt. Big Brute guy attacked again later, but Doom killed him without hesitation. After Krystalin and Meanstreak's defeating him in Vegas, that was the last we saw him in the X-Men 2099 book. Now there's a continuity err after that, but both stories dont' make Jack look very good either. The world was flooded by Atlantis, and the heroes of the world fled. Jack became a contestant in Vulture 2099's arena of death, and in it he coward and was killed by one punch by a bahemoth character. Not good for Jack. The other side of the continuity err was that when the world was flooding, he traveled back to the heroic age (current age). He fell in love with Domino and sadistically tried to capture her. Domino single handedly kicked the crap out of him... and Domino sucks. That's not saying much for Jack.

In truth, I don't think Jack ever won a fight on his own, with the exception of his attacking Luna from behind.

Well first off lets agree that Luna (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Lunatica) is very powerful having incredible strength and durability. therefore for him to take her out even by surprise, he had to have considerable power to do so.

The Domino sequence in her opening comic and halloween Jack was used as a plot device that did not show his true power...plus he was in love.

Plus as you state earlier in how he took out Luna what would have prevented HJ to take Halloween jack to take him by surprise. He could have simply been in the form of a mosquito, fly, flea, lice land on Thunderbird, who would still be unaware of him and transform into a brontosauraus immediately crushing him...that would have ended the battle very quickly indeed.

I just mention this to say the possibilities are endless for Halloween Jack to win .....

Phaedrus45

10-27-2006, 11:31 AM

And, yet, more!!!

Another bio of Jack Of Hearts states the following:

"Powers Jack was able to generate bursts of energy in the form of concussive force, intense heat, or propelling force that enabled him to fly. He was also capable of absorbing energy from other sources. He possessed superhuman levels of healing and endurance and could survive unprotected in space. Although he only had normal intelligence, his thinking capacity was enhanced by a scanning device which gave his thought processes the speed and efficiency of a highly advanced computer. Jack also had superhuman strength.

Abilities

Jack is a trained S.H.I.E.L.D. agent, the extent of which is unknown."

I stress a few points: a) his SHIELD training, something which adds another totally different dimension to this match; b) his thought processes, which have "the speed and efficiency of a highly advanced computer," which will not only assist him in prep time, but also make it so he can alter his strategy if needed during the battle; c) his superhuman healing and endurance makes this a match that Hank Pym would have the lowest of percentages of winning. Jack Of Hearts took full powers hits from the Hulk, and got up right afterward to continue fighting. There really isn't much that Hank is going to be able to do.

Again, Jack Of Hearts knows he's going to have a psychological edge over Hank. Not only does his past still effect him, as shown in recent comics with his attempts to still date Janet and constantly prove himself to her; but, Hank's mind will further be on Janet, because she has a deadly match against a highly trained Asgardian this same week.

Winner = Jack Of Hearts

Ahura Mazda

10-27-2006, 11:50 AM

This is true, and I'll grant you the touching thing... so we'll let this point go.

Now we agree on two things....

Again, I'll let this go also. I don't remember it ever stated in the comics, but since I've read several bios mentioning it, I'll let it ride..

Wow even a third point so to recap...

1. He is like the Mask
2. He would gain full knowledge with a touch
3. he would gain full use of Thunderbird's powers as well

Okay, deal... I like the idea of him becoming a child and touching him to get his powers. That could work well, and I can see him doing that. However, would he actually use the powers? Or Meansteaks? The thing is, he could have used them against the brute that attacked him (Lynton Synge I think his name was) but he didn't. He jumped around all agile like for a while, but in the end he was being choked in a headlock begging the guards to shoot the man... and then Meanstreak came along and saved him. He obviously didn't use speed there. Why would he use it in this match?

He would use them in this match because he would realise he had no choice to. It is not because that in the past a character has made mistakes that he cannot do things different in the future. You are certainly not disputing with me that Halloween jack has the potential which you admit to above just of his willingness to use them.

Also, he would probably then know that Neal can turn into Plasma, but can he predict when it'd happen? No. He has to attack somehow, and that means he has to get physical. Now, he can get burnt close up when the time is right (as he has been hit in mid attack before) or he can get burnt when a plasma blast hits him. Remember, Neal's plasma blasts are extremely quick, like a lazer beam. It isn't slow sludgy stuff. Jack could dodge it for a while, but eventually he'll mess up. And if he KNOWS that Neal can turn into Plasma, he'd be more hardpressed to come in close for a physical attack, which is about all he's good for.

Yes but Halloween jack can turn into plasma himself therefore eliminating the use of Thunderbird's powers....

He would be a heck of a threat, but he's never utilized his might in the comics, and it goes to say he wouldn't here either. Heck, he wanted to take on Doom when he became President of the United States, and did squat. He spouted threats and promises, but no attack. Why? Because Jack is all talk no bite!

Yes Doom 99 was an uber c

Zoken

10-27-2006, 03:23 PM

Hey Boss-Men, can we get a ruling on time of day? Topher's a vamp who's only known weakness is sunlight.

wiegeabo

10-27-2006, 04:38 PM

Hey Boss-Men, can we get a ruling on time of day? Topher's a vamp who's only known weakness is sunlight.

I'd say it's ok to assume the fight is at night. But it'd probably be safer to writeup arguments for fighting in the night and day times since your opponent can just as rightly assume the fight is during the day.

Zoken

10-27-2006, 04:43 PM

If it's day time, then Topher's boned, all Gladiator II would have to do is throw him through the wall of a house, or even just bring down the house and let the sun shine in.

If it's night time, the Topher owns. he is super strong, fast, and durable. resistant to fire, and injury, and heals like deadpool. he had his heart impaled by a magic staff and he got up and kept going!

Phaedrus45

10-27-2006, 04:52 PM

Hey Boss-Men, can we get a ruling on time of day? Topher's a vamp who's only known weakness is sunlight.

Oh, sorry. If you guys have a question about your matches, you might want to PM me. Many times, I read some of the arguments not until I do my voting.

I think we can say this fight starts in the evening...let's say 12:00 AM. It would be just mean to take a vampire in this contest and drop him into sunlight, not giving his character a chance. (But, you better hope you can finish the match by the time the sun comes up, huh?) Since a ruling never came about when a match would take effect, I believe this is only fair for both sides.

Zoken

10-27-2006, 05:04 PM

this would be a quick match. all Topher has to do is get the drop on him, which he can do easily since he looks like a kid and is obviously very adept at acting like one and Gladiator II is a descent fellow. He'd probly thing this is just some villager who got lost, some poor kid that just LOOKS like the guy he's got to fight. poor guy... here, let me get you to... ARGGGG MY NECK! MY NECK!....

Iceman

10-29-2006, 02:48 AM

Opening Comments: Donald Pierce Vs Prodigy (Rematch)

Match 1 between these two turned out to be an extremely close affair. Both will now have time to reflect on their performance and react as they see fit. I see three factors making a difference in match II.

Location
Something I foolishly ignored in my original debate. The hit and run tactic employed with a degree of success by Prodigy (Ritchie Gilmore) in Match 1 will not be effective here as the fight will take place in a village amongst numerous buildings. Gilmore will not be able to take advantage of the momentum (a key advantage in fight I) that he was previously able to build up in his attacks.

The presence of civilians
Prodigy is reckless and I would even allow for him causing a few accidental deaths (to his regret) via manslaughter in his rage and desire to win this match. However, he is in no way a mass murderer and is certainly not an evil kid at heart. To finish Pierce in this location many would have to die. Pierce is well versed in the art of causing innocent death and will see any casualties as a bonus (his time with the Reavers will attest to this). In fact, if Gilmore ever got the upper hand in the fight, you can bet it would not be long before Pierce began using human shields to defend himself.

Prep time & strategy
It was agreed during the debate regarding prep time in match I that Pierce would be in a far better situation to act on any information about his opponent with the use of his vast financial resources, extensive networks, technology from two centuries into the future and cybernetic brain. The contention lay within whether he would be able to attain the necessary information. Following fight I, Pierce now has all the information he needs. The “mechanical genius” will be able to augment his tech and his armour to counteract everything his opponent can throw at him.

It was also agreed that Pierce is by far the superior strategist having a far, far higher level of intelligence and following decades of experience. He will spend every minute till match II begins running simulations with advanced (by 200 yrs) computers and his cybernetic brain will process, analyse and assimilate this information quickly.

In closing Pierce will overcome his worthy opponent at the second attempt.

WINNER = DONALD PIERCE

JewishHobbit

10-29-2006, 12:21 PM

He would use them in this match because he would realise he had no choice to. It is not because that in the past a character has made mistakes that he cannot do things different in the future. You are certainly not disputing with me that Halloween jack has the potential which you admit to above just of his willingness to use them.

Yes but Halloween jack can turn into plasma himself therefore eliminating the use of Thunderbird's powers....

It's true that someone can learn from their mistakes, but I'm seeing in his past that he hasn't learned from them yet, and won't now. He never used aditional powers when against the Enforcers, when against Lyton Synge (all hulked out), when against Doom, when against Meanstreak and Krystalin, nor when against Vulture's Brute, nor against Domino. I think it goes to say that he'd likely not use Thunderbird's powers against him. There is a reason why he's never won a fight ;) I love Halloween Jack, but when it comes down to it, I don't see him winning this fight at all. He's just too cocky and isn't all that great in hand to hand or powers to powers battles. He's going down!

Winner - Thunderbird III

hippy fascist

10-29-2006, 12:36 PM

Sorry about the delay on this one, been busy all weekend :o

Deathlok Vs Marrow

http://www.spiderwebart.com/images/art/100636.gif

This is a tricky one, marrow is a tough opponent but I think Deathlok could take it. Both have healing factors (Deathlok Has nanobots) However deathloc is seriously enhanced whereas marrow's abilities work strictly in an offensive/defensive capacity. Deathloc can match these abilities but is also capable of moving at speeds up to 107 miles an hour. He has pinpoit accuracy with any ranged weapon even at these speeds. While marrow might be able to resist some of this ranged fire with armour-like bone structure once he gets in close deathlok is in the 85-Tonne class. He'd rip marrow in half at a close range. Marrow's projectiles might damage him but deathlok would quickly recuperate but as soon as it got up close and personal this fight would be over.

DEATHLOK FOR THE WIN!

Iceman

10-29-2006, 01:29 PM

Opening Comments: Gladiator II Vs Topher

With this fight starting at 12am (official ruling  :csad:), Topher has the early advantage and will obviously try to finish this quickly.

The first few hours
During this crucial time, Gladiator needs to use his speed, agility and ability to blend in and hide to evade Topher. Note that Gladiator has apprehended Daredevil in the past so has certainly proven himself capable in these attributes to a high standard.

In the worst case, Gladiator can also defend himself for a considerable length of time being a very powerful and extremely skilled martial artist capable of going toe to toe with Daredevil and wearing thick metal body armour that expels weapons. He is also armed with an arsenal of edged weapons and whirling blades protruding from his wrists.

The hunter becomes the hunted
As soon as the first rays of sunlight emerge Topher is sauce. Being prudent, he will be forced to call off the chase with a few hours to spare to avoid the risk of being exposed at all. The difference here is that when Gladiator chases Topher he only has to expose him to sunlight, rather than physically defeat him in a fight. The locals of Transia are unlikely to willingly help hide a vampire. The screams should make locating the guy a simple process. As previously mentioned, Gladiator has apprehended Daredevil in the past so is more than useful as a hunter.

Hiding during the day in an unfamiliar country will be very difficult for a vampire. Gladiator basically has a whole day to find the guy and expose him to a minimal amount of sunlight for the victory.

Topher ain’t no normal vampire
Please don’t for a second associate Topher with the regular vampires you may have heard about. The big twist in this match is that the vampire is the good guy while his “victim” is the bad guy. He has not an ounce of ruthlessness within him.

In fact he was even taken out by an inexperienced kid with no super-powers: Talkback managed to incapacitate Topher by holding a knife to this throat while his two hench-vamps fled. (while robbing a convenience store in search of food :()

The key to this match is Gladiator surviving by evading and at worst defending for a couple of hours against someone lacking killer instinct before Topher’s nerves (at the impending possibility of sunlight) kick in and he is forced to retreat. The fight is then effectively over.

WINNER = GLADIATOR II

Ahura Mazda

10-29-2006, 04:34 PM

It's true that someone can learn from their mistakes, but I'm seeing in his past that he hasn't learned from them yet, and won't now. He never used aditional powers when against the Enforcers, when against Lyton Synge (all hulked out), when against Doom, when against Meanstreak and Krystalin, nor when against Vulture's Brute, nor against Domino. I think it goes to say that he'd likely not use Thunderbird's powers against him. There is a reason why he's never won a fight ;) I love Halloween Jack, but when it comes down to it, I don't see him winning this fight at all. He's just too cocky and isn't all that great in hand to hand or powers to powers battles. He's going down!

The thing is that he can do this and then it is up to the writer to portray a situation where he can use it. This is a prime example and those that happenned in the past were just building blocks for HJ to know he has to pull out the big guns.....that is in so far of doing what he is capable of. You yourself admit he can do it, therefore it is entirely plausible he would use the powers in the way I described.

The reality is that if HJ was portrayed correctly he would wipe the floor with Thunderbird....so given he will be portrayed correctly here, he wipes the floor with Thunderbird

Zoken

10-29-2006, 05:22 PM

Topher was intrigued by the Runaways and allowed himself to be taken. He wasn't caught or trapped.

He is plenty ruthless and very manipulative.

JewishHobbit

10-29-2006, 07:23 PM

The thing is that he can do this and then it is up to the writer to portray a situation where he can use it. This is a prime example and those that happenned in the past were just building blocks for HJ to know he has to pull out the big guns.....that is in so far of doing what he is capable of. You yourself admit he can do it, therefore it is entirely plausible he would use the powers in the way I described.

The reality is that if HJ was portrayed correctly he would wipe the floor with Thunderbird....so given he will be portrayed correctly here, he wipes the floor with Thunderbird

If you were writing the battle, and if I were writing the battle, HJ would whipe the floor with Thunderbird... but alas, we must go off of the rock base that we've been given, and assume that that is how Halloween Jack would react. Thing is, while I agree that HJ COULD potentinally be stronger, he's never been written that way and we can't add levels to the character that haven't already been astablished for the sake of a match. Jack's always worked best in pairs (with Meanstreak, and with the Asguardians) and he's strongest by manipulating people and pulling strings. In this situation he has no one to manipulate, and therefor, he must resort to physical violence, something that has been proven ineffective.

Today's lesson: You and I know Jack's potential, but potential means very little in this tourney without a past in the comics to back it. Halloween Jack is gettin' nothin' but a butt kickin' in his Halloween Sack this year! (and you may take that how you wish :))

Winner - Thunderbird III

Harlekin

10-30-2006, 12:54 AM

REBUTTAL: Prodigy vs Donald Pierce
Location
Something I foolishly ignored in my original debate. The hit and run tactic employed with a degree of success by Prodigy (Ritchie Gilmore) in Match 1 will not be effective here as the fight will take place in a village amongst numerous buildings. Gilmore will not be able to take advantage of the momentum (a key advantage in fight I) that he was previously able to build up in his attacks.
This is true, but he now has the added advantage of being able to hide if need be. Ritchie is a reckless idiot, but if he sees that it isn't going to work out, he can use the village to his advantage by hiding in alleys or the like. He can also still leap straight up and come barreling down.

The presence of civilians
Prodigy is reckless and I would even allow for him causing a few accidental deaths (to his regret) via manslaughter in his rage and desire to win this match. However, he is in no way a mass murderer and is certainly not an evil kid at heart. To finish Pierce in this location many would have to die. Pierce is well versed in the art of causing innocent death and will see any casualties as a bonus (his time with the Reavers will attest to this). In fact, if Gilmore ever got the upper hand in the fight, you can bet it would not be long before Pierce began using human shields to defend himself.
Yes, Prodigy is a good guy. Will a casualty be acceptable to bring in the bad guy. Most likely. He will be having to save lots of people, and he will, but if in the end it comes down between a life or bringing in the villain, Prodigy is the guy that will bring in the villain.

Prep time & strategy
It was agreed during the debate regarding prep time in match I that Pierce would be in a far better situation to act on any information about his opponent with the use of his vast financial resources, extensive networks, technology from two centuries into the future and cybernetic brain. The contention lay within whether he would be able to attain the necessary information. Following fight I, Pierce now has all the information he needs. The “mechanical genius” will be able to augment his tech and his armour to counteract everything his opponent can throw at him.
I'm starting to wonder on where you're getting this two centuries technology thing from. In the biographies I've read I can't find a single instance of this being so. If you could link me to a biography where it says this, I'd be delighted. Either way, yes, Pierce has the prep time advantage, but there isn't really anything to counteract. Prodigy employs brute strength, that simple.

It was also agreed that Pierce is by far the superior strategist having a far, far higher level of intelligence and following decades of experience. He will spend every minute till match II begins running simulations with advanced (by 200 yrs) computers and his cybernetic brain will process, analyse and assimilate this information quickly.
Like I said, the 200 years thing, where is it from? He also does not have decades of experience, more like a decade. Big difference.

WINNER=STILL PRODIGY

Ahura Mazda

10-30-2006, 02:15 AM

If you were writing the battle, and if I were writing the battle, HJ would whipe the floor with Thunderbird...

The thing is we are writing THIS battle and therefore I am glad we both agree that Halloween Jack takes it. :D

Iceman

10-30-2006, 04:29 AM

Opening Comments: Deathlok Vs Marrow

Marrow has a serious fight on her hands here but I would really love to watch this match.

Summary of powers
Marrow’s ability to control the growth of her bone structure has been augmented and enhanced by both Skrull technology and by the Weapon X program. “She utilizes this power in many ways, including the creation of knuckle guards, spears, and projectile spikes. She also possesses a healing factor, much in the same vein as Wolverine since every time a bone is ripped out a wound remains which closes itself soon after.” She can control her bone growth, to form many types of weapons, often knives and clubs, and also a tough body armor. In addition she has enhanced strength and agility. “She also has excellent tracking skills, spotting a hidden Prime Sentinel even a super soldier like Sabra hadn't noticed.”

Her Skeletal bones are themselves also very durable: “she had easily survived heavy hits on several body parts. For example Flagsmasher hit her twice with his mace on the head without creating much damage and Sabretooth threw her against a wall with no result on her inner bones. She also jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge twice (something that would often result in death or broken bones) without any major damage being able to walk normally afterwards.” She illustrated the diversity of her powers during one of her Weapon X missions where she took down Sabretooth using Wolverine style claws and porcupine quills.

Resilience
Marrow is an extremely resilient character and killing her has proven very difficult over time. She survived the Mutant Massacre. Even more impressively she survived Mikhail Rasputin’s "survival of the fittest" society. Here, the law was kill or be killed in an attempt to reach the summit and prove oneself worthy of being part of Gene Nation. “When her powers fully manifested she was forced to "up the hill", becoming more savage and killing her opponents to survive. When she managed to reach the top, Mikhail considered her fit to join his elite fighting team Gene Nation, which eventually became a terrorist group whose mission was to punish humans for their hatred towards mutants.”

Rundown
Marrow’s best hopes of winning this fight are using her projectile weapons to keep her distance, and gradually moving the battle towards either water or electricity that can compromise Deathlok’s circuitry. Taking cover behind/amongst human and their dwellings may also become necessary to protect herself from Deathlok’s blasts. Preventing casualties will be very important to Deathlok while Marrow knows what it takes to survive and has proven beyond doubt that she is prepared to kill and let others die when absolutely necessary.

I believe she would win this fight, but only 6 or so times out of every 10. This is going to be a real struggle for both participants.

WINNER = MARROW

hippy fascist

10-30-2006, 03:36 PM

Good Morrow My Esteemed opponent! Let us begin

Marrow has a serious fight on her hands here but I would really love to watch this match.
True, this is going to be a hell of fight, both have healing factors, both have extreme skill with projectile weapons but deathlok has some pretty nifty tricks up his sleeve

Summary of powers
Marrow’s ability to control the growth of her bone structure has been augmented and enhanced by both Skrull technology and by the Weapon X program. “She utilizes this power in many ways, including the creation of knuckle guards, spears, and projectile spikes. She also possesses a healing factor, much in the same vein as Wolverine since every time a bone is ripped out a wound remains which closes itself soon after.” She can control her bone growth, to form many types of weapons, often knives and clubs, and also a tough body armor. In addition she has enhanced strength and agility. “She also has excellent tracking skills, spotting a hidden Prime Sentinel even a super soldier like Sabra hadn't noticed.”

First thing, her ability to grow armour: deathlok's strength in the 85 tonne class. If it came to close quarters (which taking into account his speed it probably will) he'd rip her in half. From a distance deathlok's superior firepower should kick through her armour no problem.

Her projectile weapons: Very effective but deathloc is an android not a soft squishy human. Their damage would be decreased and his nanobots could pick up the slack and just about keep up.

The Healing factor is an interesting element as it levels the playing field with deathloks nanobots. They both work at about the same speed so that's going to make it a long tough fight but this is not wolverine's healing factor we're talking about. If deathlock rips off a limb she certainly won't be getting it back at any point in the fight!

Enhanced strength and agility: ENHANCED, it's one thing to be very agile and very strong, it is an entirely different league of creature that can move at 107 miles an hour and has strength in the 85 tonne range. In this respect she is simply outclassed.

She is an excellent tracker which would be most usefull if the fight takes place in darkness but of course deathlok can scan the entire electromagnetic spectrum so he'd pick up Marrow in a heartbeat. This particular feat is kinda cancelled out on account of them both having near equal abilities but I'd plump for deathlok finding his prey sooner :woot:

Her Skeletal bones are themselves also very durable: “she had easily survived heavy hits on several body parts. For example Flagsmasher hit her twice with his mace on the head without creating much damage and Sabretooth threw her against a wall with no result on her inner bones. She also jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge twice (something that would often result in death or broken bones) without any major damage being able to walk normally afterwards.” She illustrated the diversity of her powers during one of her Weapon X missions where she took down Sabretooth using Wolverine style claws and porcupine quills.

No matter how durable her skeleton is this does not apply to ligaments and muscle tissue. The way to kill marrow is to tear into her and scoop out the gooey insides. Deathlock could pull her head off without even needing to break a single bone.

With regards sabretooth, he is a savage beast easily tameable by one of his own. Deathlok has a computer in his head that works out every single maneuver against every possible counter to insure precision and victory. He can work out to the slightest remainder the probability of him winning a fight and I think the fact he's shown up must mean there is at least a 60% chance of him winning this fight :D

Resilience
Marrow is an extremely resilient character and killing her has proven very difficult over time. She survived the Mutant Massacre. Even more impressively she survived Mikhail Rasputin’s "survival of the fittest" society. Here, the law was kill or be killed in an attempt to reach the summit and prove oneself worthy of being part of Gene Nation. “When her powers fully manifested she was forced to "up the hill", becoming more savage and killing her opponents to survive. When she managed to reach the top, Mikhail considered her fit to join his elite fighting team Gene Nation, which eventually became a terrorist group whose mission was to punish humans for their hatred towards mutants.”

Again pointing out the savage aspect just heightens the significance of the precision tactition that deathlok is. And I say to you all, what throughout history has been responsible for the masacre of savages in the pursuit of conquest. MORE ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY. Which is what Deathlok is...

Besides that savage is usually to do with brutality more than hardiness. It comes down to the person who fights dirtiest and does anything to win. Machines don't have balls, they don't have pressure points, they don't suffer the cold or get hungry. If this is a war of attrition marrow will sucumb to these conditions far quicker than deathloc (appart from the balls :o )

Rundown
Marrow’s best hopes of winning this fight are using her projectile weapons to keep her distance, and gradually moving the battle towards either water or electricity that can compromise Deathlok’s circuitry. Taking cover behind/amongst human and their dwellings may also become necessary to protect herself from Deathlok’s blasts. Prevente]ting casualties will be very important to Deathlok while Marrow knows what it takes to survive and has proven beyond doubt that she is prepared to kill and let others die when absolutely necessary.

I believe she would win this fight, but only 6 or so times out of every 10. This is going to be a real struggle for both participants.

WINNER = MARROW

OK with regards the people, they aren't all going to suddenly come out and gather round as they two superhumans square off. They would immediately lock their doors and take cover. These people know what's about to happen meaning they'll want none of it. Which means if marrow wants to use people for cover she's going to have to start going into houses. Getting into a tight enclosed space with Deathlok would be the worst thing she could do so I doubt her taking this route. In reality she will probably end up leaping from rooftop to rooftop trying to lure Deathlok to water/electricity. Firstly, from what I can tell of this location, electricity is in somewhat scarce supply (at least at the required voltage to cause deathlok problems), which just leaves water which he would have picked up on the second he entered into the arena. Deathlok may be a robot but he's a damn smart one. He's not just going to wander over to cliff which just happens to be overlooking a lake. If she goes too near a water source he has the long range capabilities to just sit back and take potshots at her.(Albeit potshots that are pinpoint accurate...which can also be extended to multiple targets with minimal loss of acuracy)

Ultimately Deathlok will win this for three reasons

1. He can travel at 107 miles per hour. He's going to be the one determining where they fight as he can move 3-4 times faster than her, if she runs he'll get wherever she's going quicker. If he needs to back away for a minute to let his nanobots catch up he'll out run her. :ninja:

2. I Keep Saying it but 85TONNE'S OF RAW POWER! He'd rip marrow in half in a heartbeat

3. Crazy guns and pinpoint accuracy. Marrows strengths are more about long-range attacks. However Deathlok is a master of thousands of weapons any one of which he can use with a level of skill equal to marrow's skill with her overgrown bones. Secondly marrows bones are simply prehensile weapons. Deathlok's got all the new tech. Stuff that will mess you up in more ways than you can imagine.

This contest is a perfect example of the savages versus the imperialists. Just like the native americans and the british when america was first colonised the savage(s) will be crushed. It's a harsh reality and while we all may be rooting for the savage to pull through, all wars have been won either by superior manpower or superior tech. Since this is one on one, tech wins the day

A HARD :wow: match, but DEATHLOK FTW!

JewishHobbit

10-30-2006, 09:34 PM

The thing is we are writing THIS battle and therefore I am glad we both agree that Halloween Jack takes it. :D

I was just being polite ;)

Does anyone other than me realize that Karima Shaprander from the current run of X-Men, and in Claremont's Excalibur before that, is Thunderbird III's former girlfriend. She was his girl before any of them had powers, and she was kidnaped and turned into a Prime Sentinel, as well as Neal's brother. Neal then developed his powers and they faught and she overcame her programing and fled so that she wouldn't kill him. It'd be cool if Marvel actually follows up with that and actually brought Neal BACK into the storyline! And bring Lifeguard back with him!

Iceman

10-31-2006, 08:00 AM

Rebuttal: PRODIGY Vs DONALD PIERCE

This is true, but he now has the added advantage of being able to hide if need be. Ritchie is a reckless idiot, but if he sees that it isn't going to work out, he can use the village to his advantage by hiding in alleys or the like. He can also still leap straight up and come barreling down.He has no particular advantage when it comes to hiding though so you are admitting that he is giving up one of the key advantages he held over Pierce in round I. His lack of patience and recklessness would also make this a poor choice of tactic. It really isn’t his style at all.

The actual point behind the paragraph that you are responding to was to acknowledge the loss of momentum advantage from Match I. This difference will prove one of the factors that turn match II in Pierce’s favour. As for using vertical leaps, again he is being forced to use an inferior tactic. With Pierce’s reflexes, Gilmore cannot afford to miss and cannot use as much momentum as he would use in a horizontal attack where it doesn’t matter if he misses his target (there is no ground to crash into in the case of a horizontal miss). Also Pierce would capture humans and throw them in the air to meet Prodigy’s descent, meaning that he is forced to endanger innocents every time he attacks. Even if he is prepared for this, he will lose further momentum.

Yes, Prodigy is a good guy. Will a casualty be acceptable to bring in the bad guy. Most likely. He will be having to save lots of people, and he will, but if in the end it comes down between a life or bringing in the villain, Prodigy is the guy that will bring in the villain.I mentioned this in my debate. I believe that Prodigy is reckless enough, despite being technically a "hero", to cause accidental death in his efforts to win this match. However, he will have second thoughts when the bodycount starts shooting up at a rate that Pierce is more at home with, especially if his own tactics are contributing to the deaths. If you are stating that Prodigy also has to waste his time and effort saving innocents, then he has no chance in Hell and Pierce will certainly use this to his fullest advantage (another new advantage for Pierce over match I). The cyborg will see all and any deaths as a bonus so can only benefit from this scenario.

I'm starting to wonder on where you're getting this two centuries technology thing from. In the biographies I've read I can't find a single instance of this being so. If you could link me to a biography where it says this, I'd be delighted.
Glad to be of service. :yay: This is from the wikipedia bio posted in this very thread under the section "Powers and Abilities":
Aside from his physical advantages, Donald Pierce is a genius in robotics, cybernetics, and electronics. In these fields he has developed technology that exceeds that of conventional science by approximately two centuries. He also has vast financial resources (a requirement for membership in the Hellfire club). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Pierce

Either way, yes, Pierce has the prep time advantage, but there isn't really anything to counteract. Prodigy employs brute strength, that simple.
Now you’re even thinking like Gilmore. :woot: Prep time and strategy formulation go far beyond a simple assessment of strength. You have already discussed alternative techniques that Prodigy could use in match II such as vertical dives and hiding in alleys. Pierce will be attempting to anticipate how Gilmore will react to his new environment, running all scenarios in his super computers and assimilating results in his cybernetic brain, using the events from the first match as test info.

Before match I Pierce was unprepared for someone who could fly in and attack him. With the knowledge of match I he could, for example, look at anti-momentum technology involving projectiles or a reactionary form of body armour (it could have layers that buckle with impact or include an offensive element to aggressively counter any moving objects approaching at speed) . I could come up with many more examples of how Pierce could use his prep time effectively if you require.

Like I said, the 200 years thing, where is it from? He also does not have decades of experience, more like a decade. Big difference.As above plus Pierce was already a high ranking member of the Hellfire Club Inner Circle in his first appearance (early 100s Uncanny). I realise Marvel time hasn't moved on as far as real time since then but he had at the very least a couple of decades of experience before his first appearance. Anyway the point is that he is far, far more experienced than your boy.

WINNER=PIERCE

Iceman

10-31-2006, 09:51 AM

Rebuttal: GLADIATOR II Vs TOPHER

I assume your partial rebuttal indicates an acceptance of the other arguments presented? :woot:

Topher was intrigued by the Runaways and allowed himself to be taken. He wasn't caught or trapped. He is plenty ruthless and very manipulative. If he was more ruthless I think he could, with his powers, have survived his encounters with the Runaways. Either that or known when to make a safe exit. Regular vampires such as Morbius are much more street smart, concerned with self preservation and aware of when they are in danger. Vampires have to act quickly before their weaknesses such as exposure to sunlight can be tested. Also, I never accused the poor guy of not being manipulative. He certainly is in spades; it just won’t come in very useful here. :yay:

General Note(not part of the debate): It is only fair that any assumption that the two combatants (in the Maxam Vs Microbe match – Thread 3) are well hidden and far away from each other at the start of a contest should apply equally (to whatever extent) to this match where my character needs to evade at the outset.

Iceman

10-31-2006, 10:51 AM

Rebuttal: MARROW VS DEATHLOK

Good Morrow My Esteemed opponent! Let us beginDamn you Hippy. :woot: Due to time constraints, I wasn’t going to bother with any rebuttals to the long (and annoyingly good) debates this week, but your points were too interesting to resist, so I reluctantly decided to respond to all my matches :cmad:
True, this is going to be a hell of fight, both have healing factors, both have extreme skill with projectile weapons but deathlok has some pretty nifty tricks up his sleeve:up:

First thing, her ability to grow armour: deathlok's strength in the 85 tonne class. If it came to close quarters (which taking into account his speed it probably will) he'd rip her in half. From a distance deathlok's superior firepower should kick through her armour no problem.If Deathlok manages to lay his hands on Marrow’s head he may be able to finish this quickly by ripping it off (and thereby saving me from debating). Although it hasn’t been proven, I doubt Marrow’s healing factor, although it has been stated to be in Wolverine’s league, can cope with this kind of injury. Marrow will also know this (if the case) as she’s aware of how far her healing factor has been pushed in the past and will not allow the situation to happen. Speed of hand is not the same as speed of foot so getting close to Marrow is not enough. Marrow can also grow bone defenses preventing access to weak areas such as her head and neck.

Her projectile weapons: Very effective but deathloc is an android not a soft squishy human. Their damage would be decreased and his nanobots could pick up the slack and just about keep up.Marrow’s healing factor against non critical wounds is almost perfect. Wounds don't stay open for more than a few seconds and her healing factor has been stretched to the limit for years at a time (in the case of Rasputin's Gene Nation 'Survival of the Fittest' trials) and coped.

I'm not aware if Deathlok has been involved in such long term warfare in the past.

The Healing factor is an interesting element as it levels the playing field with deathloks nanobots. They both work at about the same speed so that's going to make it a long tough fight but this is not wolverine's healing factor we're talking about.I would dispute that Deathlok's nanobots work as fast as Marrow's healing factor as she can heal non-critical wounds almost instantaneously. If deathlock rips off a limb she certainly won't be getting it back at any point in the fight!Accepted.

Enhanced strength and agility: ENHANCED, it's one thing to be very agile and very strong, it is an entirely different league of creature that can move at 107 miles an hour and has strength in the 85 tonne range. In this respect she is simply outclassed.On pure strength and running speed alone, Deathlok is undeniably superior. Marrow is however superior in terms of agility and speed of hand.

She is an excellent tracker which would be most usefull if the fight takes place in darkness but of course deathlok can scan the entire electromagnetic spectrum so he'd pick up Marrow in a heartbeat. This particular feat is kinda cancelled out on account of them both having near equal abilities but I'd plump for deathlok finding his prey sooner The X-Men train daily against cyborgs with computer based logic in the danger room. Deathlok's computerised brain is no superior to the logic based decisions and analyses of the likes of Danger (the Danger Room itself as an evil entity) Phalanx, or the heralds of Onslaught, and Marrow will have trained against and defeated any similar ex X-Men foes in the danger room. The X-Men are extensively trained in completely changing their usual combat strategies when up against computer based brains in ways that computers cannot predict.

There is no room for instinct either in Deathlok's framework. Even super computers can be beaten by the human mind as chess grandmasters have repeatedly proven. The unenhanced human mind has far more potential than a computer will have if you follow quantum physics theories. The problem is that most of that potential remains untapped. Mutants are beginning to tap into these previously unreached levels.

No matter how durable her skeleton is this does not apply to ligaments and muscle tissue. The way to kill marrow is to tear into her and scoop out the gooey insides. Deathlock could pull her head off without even needing to break a single bone. She can grow bones anywhere she chooses to protect her ligaments and muscle tissue. However, your "ripping her head off" tactic stands the most chance of defeating her healing factor.

With regards sabretooth, he is a savage beast easily tameable by one of his own.One of his own as in a fellow savage or fellow mutant? As far as I know he isn't easily tameable by anyone, and I have read nearly everything that Sabretooth has been in.

Deathlok has a computer in his head that works out every single maneuver against every possible counter to insure precision and victory. He can work out to the slightest remainder the probability of him winning a fight and I think the fact he's shown up must mean there is at least a 60% chance of him winning this fight :DI note the :D but he has no option but to show up. I have read stories of Deathlok continuously calculating probabilities even as he is taken down (eg Amazing Spider-man - part of the Maximum carnage storyline). Head injuries have also been shown to affect the functioning of Deathlok’s computer brain in the past.

Again pointing out the savage aspect just heightens the significance of the precision tactition that deathlok is. And I say to you all, what throughout history has been responsible for the masacre of savages in the pursuit of conquest. MORE ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY. Which is what Deathlok is...It was her resilience that I was emphasising, her ability to maintain vicious combat and be continually alert for an indefinite period. The "survival of the fittest" story conclusively proves her durability. It also shows that she will let innocents die or even kill if it will help her survive. Deathlok is not capable of this and he will be at a major disadvantage in a fight based around civilians. His life and winning this match are not important if humans have to be killed as a result of his actions.

Besides that savage is usually to do with brutality more than hardiness. It comes down to the person who fights dirtiest and does anything to win. Machines don't have balls, they don't have pressure points, they don't suffer the cold or get hungry. If this is a war of attrition marrow will sucumb to these conditions far quicker than deathloc (appart from the balls )Hardiness was comprehensively demonstrated beyond all doubt during Rasputin's "Survival of the fittest" years. I don't think Deathlok has been involved in a continuous battle that has lasted for years and come out on top.

OK with regards the people, they aren't all going to suddenly come out and gather round as they two superhumans square off. They would immediately lock their doors and take cover. These people know what's about to happen meaning they'll want none of it. Which means if marrow wants to use people for cover she's going to have to start going into houses. Getting into a tight enclosed space with Deathlok would be the worst thing she could do so I doubt her taking this route. In reality she will probably end up leaping from rooftop to rooftop trying to lure Deathlok to water/electricity. Firstly, from what I can tell of this location, electricity is in somewhat scarce supply (at least at the required voltage to cause deathlok problems), which just leaves water which he would have picked up on the second he entered into the arena.Hey this is Eastern Europe, not the desert. Every building has some form of electricity and it doesn't take as much as you make out. Deathlok has been taken out by being driven into a single neon sign in the past and I can assure you having visited many countries in eastern Europe that these are no rarity. She only needs one human at a time to act as a shield and can capture them at the beginning of the fight. Deathlok is limited in that he can't use his heaviest artillery as it will endanger innocents.

Ultimately Deathlok will win this for three reasons

1. He can travel at 107 miles per hour. He's going to be the one determining where they fight as he can move 3-4 times faster than her, if she runs he'll get wherever she's going quicker. If he needs to back away for a minute to let his nanobots catch up he'll out run her. 107mph is his top speed on an unimpeded path. In a village filled with dwellings, there is little space to utilise this top speed. Agility, where Marrow is superior, becomes more important.

2. I Keep Saying it but 85TONNE'S OF RAW POWER! He'd rip marrow in half in a heartbeatIf she lets him.

3. Crazy guns and pinpoint accuracy. Marrows strengths are more about long-range attacks. However Deathlok is a master of thousands of weapons any one of which he can use with a level of skill equal to marrow's skill with her overgrown bones. Secondly marrows bones are simply prehensile weapons. Deathlok's got all the new tech. Stuff that will mess you up in more ways than you can imagine. His guns won’t be on crazy setting while innocents are at risk.

This contest is a perfect example of the savages versus the imperialists. Just like the native americans and the british when america was first colonised the savage(s) will be crushed. It's a harsh reality and while we all may be rooting for the savage to pull through, all wars have been won either by superior manpower or superior tech. Since this is one on one, tech wins the dayNice comparison. Marrow has her own organic tech that Deathlok can't imitate. She is at a huge advantage being in a civilian area. For example, if the fight is going badly, she can start an electrical fire endangering humans and extremely hazardous for Deathlok to approach. Her projectile weapons are organically produced and infinite and so can keep him at bay for years if necessary. The location will be the key to Marrow's very narrow and hard fought victory. Her survival skills and willingness to let others die to ensure her own survival will be her saving grace.

A HARD match, but DEATHLOK FTW!

I’m done. Good and interesting debate though :up:

WINNER = MARROW(don’t forget she’s hot now)

Phaedrus45

10-31-2006, 12:14 PM

Voting May Begin!

JewishHobbit

10-31-2006, 12:15 PM

I WIN!!!!

Oh wait... I should read these things first.

Phaedrus45

10-31-2006, 12:28 PM

*Jack Of Hearts

*Deathlok

*Gladiator II - (I have my reasons, but will keep them to myself until the match is ended. I don't want to effect the debates given.)

*Halloween Jack

*Donald Pierce

JewishHobbit

10-31-2006, 12:35 PM

Jack Of Hearts
Deathlok
Topher
Thunderbird III
Donald Pierce

hippy fascist

10-31-2006, 01:46 PM

Jack Of Hearts I've never really seen the point of pym and besides, you debate you get the vote...)

Deathlok (Cause he's awesome!)

Gladiator II (I vote for fights/character, topher could have won this for me easily but so little was said about the character with too much emphasis on the invulnerability (I'd probably have done the same myself but...))

Halloween Jack (Props to Jewhobs on the debating skills! :up:)

Prodigy (for three reasons: 1. He took the first stand against stark, GO DUDE! 2. GO SLINGERS! 3. Prodigy won't care about the villagers
so his speed and agility still takes it for me)

Darthphere

10-31-2006, 02:44 PM

Jack Of Hearts
Deathlok
Gladiator II
Halloween Jack
Prodigy

wiegeabo

10-31-2006, 03:57 PM

Jack of Hearts
Deathlok
Thunderbird III
Donald Pierce
Gladiator II (but I went back and forth on this one)

Phaedrus45

10-31-2006, 05:08 PM

Results So Far:

Jack Of Hearts currently beating Hank Pym 5-0
Deathlok currently beating Marrow 5-0
Gladiator II currently beating Topher 4-1
Halloween Jack currently beating Thunderbird III 3-2
Donald Pierce currently beating Prodigy-Slingers 3-2

WOLVERINE25TH

10-31-2006, 07:16 PM

Jack
Deathlok
Gladiator
Jack
Pierce

kytrigger

10-31-2006, 09:32 PM

Donald Pierce
Halloween Jack
Deathlok
Jack of Hearts
Topher

Harlekin

10-31-2006, 11:37 PM

Jack of Hearts
Deathlok - Nice debate, but Deathie takes it
Gladiator II - Just a tad more convincing
Halloween Jack - Everybody agrees T-Bird's outclassed here
Prodigy - For obvious reasons

Ahura Mazda

11-01-2006, 05:14 AM

Jack Of Hearts
Deathlok
Gladiator II
Halloween Jack
Prodigy

Iceman

11-01-2006, 05:41 AM

Jack of Hearts
Marrow (If she wasn't my character I'd probably be convinced by the Deathlok debate - Even if I get no votes on this one, I had a good time trying to find a way for her to win)
Gladiator II
Halloween Jack (Great debates guys :up:)
Pierce

Trigger

11-01-2006, 11:10 AM

Prodigy
Deathlok
Jack of Hearts
Thunderbird III
Gladiator

Phaedrus45

11-01-2006, 11:22 AM

Results So Far:

Jack Of Hearts currently beating Hank Pym 11-0
Deathlok currently beating Marrow 10-1
Gladiator II currently beating Topher 9-2
Halloween Jack currently beating Thunderbird III 8-3
Donald Pierce currently beating Prodigy-Slingers 6-5

Darren Daring

11-01-2006, 11:23 AM

Jack Of Hearts
Deathlok
Gladiator II
Halloween Jack
Prodigy

Hellstormer

11-01-2006, 04:32 PM

Jack of Hearts

Marrow

Gladiator II

Halloween Jack

Prodigy!

Zoken

11-01-2006, 07:31 PM

Donald Pierce
Halloween Jack
Deathlok
Jack of Hearts
Topher

POWdER-man

11-01-2006, 08:03 PM

Jack of Hearts (I wonder if anyone but yourself will get this character beaten off)
Deathlok
Halloween Jack (another good debate JH, you almost had me convinced)
Gladiator II
Donald Pierce (close call)

Phaedrus45

11-01-2006, 10:26 PM

Jack of Hearts (I wonder if anyone but yourself will get this character beaten off)

I refuse to beat off my characters!!!

ehem....anyway, MAN it's good to see you, buddy. You're missed, that's for sure.

Midnight Ice

11-02-2006, 05:18 AM

Hank Pym
Deathlok
Topher
Thunderbird III
Donald Pierce

Phaedrus45

11-02-2006, 10:20 AM

Final Results:

Jack Of Hearts beat Hank Pym 15-1
Deathlok currently beating Marrow 14-2
Gladiator II currently beating Topher 12-4
Halloween Jack currently beating Thunderbird III 12-4
Donald Pierce currently beating Prodigy-Slingers 9-7

Ahura Mazda

11-02-2006, 10:23 AM

Nice doing batlle with you JH.

Phaedrus45

11-02-2006, 10:54 AM

Harlekin

11-02-2006, 10:54 AM

It had to happen. Well done Iceman/Psylocke. If I ever meet Pierce in battle again though, his ass is going down.

Iceman

11-02-2006, 05:11 PM

Ok, Topher would have totally had my vote except for one reason: Location. Being in Transia, the residents would have many superstitious beliefs, including vampires. All Gladiator II would have to do is hang out in a house until sunrise. You could bet that almost every house would have a religious symbol, garlic, and the like. Plus, while Topher might be able to gain entrance in a house without being invited, under a Marvel Vampires link, it states they do have an aversion to entering a house they haven't been invited in.I thought I was going to lose Gladiator II to a whitewash as I'm not sure that my debate was too convincing. Great argument above :up:

It had to happen. Well done Iceman/Psylocke. If I ever meet Pierce in battle again though, his ass is going down.Thanks. :yay:

These matches that go to second rounds can become quite epic (& tiring :csad:). I did enjoy this particular battle though. :up:

I can't believe you've got yet another tie this week after having 6 matches in one week. I'm almost feeling sorry for you. :woot:

Phaedrus45

11-02-2006, 08:38 PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/JewishHobbit/CoM.jpg

BRACKET 1,

Match 7:

Thunderbird - Exiles (WIEGEABO) bio (http://www.mutanthigh.com/alternatex/exiles/thunderbird.html)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_tbird.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=tbird.jpg&refPage=200&imgAnch=imgAnch220)

vs.

Radioactive Man (HIPPY FASCIST) bio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioactive_Man_%28Marvel_Comics%29)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_RadioactiveMan.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=RadioactiveMan.jpg&refPage=380&imgAnch=imgAnch395)

Match 8:

Aurora - Weapon X (POWDERMAN) bio (http://www.mutanthigh.com/aurora.html)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_Aurora.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=Aurora.jpg&refPage=300&imgAnch=imgAnch303)

vs.

Adam Warlock (WIEGEABO) bio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Warlock)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_Warlock-Adam.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=Warlock-Adam.jpg&refPage=180&imgAnch=imgAnch199)

Phaedrus45

11-02-2006, 09:20 PM

BRACKET 2,

Match 7:

Stacey X (JEWISHHOBBIT) bio (http://www.mutanthigh.com/xstacy.html)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_xstacy.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=xstacy.jpg&refPage=220&imgAnch=imgAnch226)

vs.

Molly Hayes (ZOKEN) bio (http://www.mutanthigh.com/bruiser.html)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_bruiser.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=bruiser.jpg&refPage=100&imgAnch=imgAnch101)

Match 8:

Sunfire - Exiles (HELLSTORMER) bio (http://www.mutanthigh.com/alternatex/exiles/sunfire.html)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_sunfire.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=sunfire.jpg&refPage=60&imgAnch=imgAnch62)

vs.

Grim Reaper (TRIGGER) bio (http://www.marvel.com/universe/Grim_Reaper)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_Grim-Reaper.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=Grim-Reaper.jpg&refPage=300&imgAnch=imgAnch301)

Phaedrus45

11-03-2006, 12:21 AM

Location:

Project: Pegasus was originally intended to research alternative (and unusual) forms of energy, but has also been used as a prison (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison) for super-powered individuals. The location of this facility is described as being in the Adirondack Mountains (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adirondack_Mountains) in New York state (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_state).
The facility is remembered best in comics for "The Project Pegasus Saga" printed in Marvel Two-in-One #53-#58 (later collected as a trade paperback (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_paperback) of the same title with art by John Byrne (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Byrne) and George Pérez (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_P%C3%A9rez)). However, its recurring use as a prison for supervillians of the Marvel Universe has led to a number of comics stories in the following decades, significant among them an emergence of the Serpent Crown (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpent_Crown). Several Marvel characters have served terms working security at the facility, including The Thing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thing_%28comics%29), Quasar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasar_%28comics%29) and Spider-Woman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider-Woman_%28Julia_Carpenter%29). At one time it also served as a temporary home for the Squadron Supreme (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squadron_Supreme) when they were exiled from their own universe.

For our version, we will be using the facility that was designed to be used as a prison for super-powered individuals. The prison will not be occupied by anyone except the combantants. Combatants cannot leave the prison.

Zoken

11-03-2006, 05:21 AM

hippy fascist

11-03-2006, 02:09 PM

Radioactive Man Vs Thunderbird

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/47/Radioactiveman.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Radioactiveman.png)

OK, this particular contest will be a hell of a match to watch but I feel pretty confident Radioactive man can take it.

John Proudfoot is very strong and very tough, that's it...Radioactive man has the power to radically enhance his own strength. It has never been fully stated how powerful radioactive man can get at full capacity but we are talking hyperion levels of strength(he's previously gone toe to toe with namor!), in short, stronger than Thunderbird. Thunderbird is very "durable" but radioactive man can generate a forcefield around his body strong enough to repel Mjolnir. This fight may go on for some time but radioactive man can outlast Thunderbird any day of the week.

If anyone is doubting the presence of sufficient radiation in this loction, think again. be Get a geiger counter and take it round your home, you'll be terrified. Ambient radiation can be found almost anywhere. Alternatively I could simply argue that he has sat in a nuclear reactor for his entire prep-time absorbing more and more power as superman can do with the sun.

He can also emit concentrated blasts of radiation. John proudfoot has thick skin meaning he can absorb many physical blows but radiation doesn't work that way. His invulnerability would be rendered moot by this particular attack.

As a final point, while he is very strong Thunderbird died in a explosion on a plane. Radioactive man is a walking A-Bomb that would have simply been made stronger. They aren't even in the same class.

WINNER: RADIOACTIVE MAN!

Hellstormer

11-03-2006, 02:42 PM

Match 8:

Sunfire - Exiles (HELLSTORMER) bio (http://www.mutanthigh.com/alternatex/exiles/sunfire.html)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_sunfire.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=sunfire.jpg&refPage=60&imgAnch=imgAnch62)

vs.

Grim Reaper (TRIGGER) bio (http://www.marvel.com/universe/Grim_Reaper)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_Grim-Reaper.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=Grim-Reaper.jpg&refPage=300&imgAnch=imgAnch301)Ok this is pre-Crystal PLace so Sunfire wouldn't have the wealth of knowledge but still she's fought the undead before and people with more powers. His shapeshifting won't be a problem since she knows who she's facing. His teleporation could get him close enough to try and suck energy but she would just burn him up. Her main goal here would try to be keeping distance and nailintg him with fire, whihc always effects zombies. Overall this could pose difficulty but I think Sunfire could take it. O and he wouldn't be allowed to call his minions, as stated in the rules.

JewishHobbit

11-03-2006, 04:39 PM

Stacy Vs Molly

Okay, so this is an akward match to debate, being that my character gets of on getting people off... and she's facing a young girl. I find it difficult to believe that Molly would know of Stacy, as she wasn't on the X-Men long enough to become known to the world. On the same side of the coin, I'd find it hard to believe that Stacy would know Molly, though I'd say there's a better chance, as most seem to know of the 'kids in San Fransisco.' But for the sake of argument, I'll say neither know of one another. The location also isn't going to help anyone much either.

That said, let's remind everyone of who Stacy is. She's a prostitute whose... well, gross. She's selfish, she'll do anything to win a fight, she's a professed bi-sexual. She LOVES sex! Okay, so here's the idea... at least the first one that I hate, but I can see happening. She will go into the fight slowly. She will look about, get impatient, and finally just call out for Molly... if Molly doesn't call out first. I can see both getting impatient. They'll eventually meet up and talk some 'smack.' Now remember that Stacy is extremely agile and quick. She'd talk until Molly goes in for the punch. She'll dodge the punch, as she's quicker than Molly, and she'll touch the girl on the arm, or back of the neck, or something innocent. Molly will be overwhelmed with the 'emotions' that she goes through and wavers until she's down. Perhaps that will be enough, or perhaps Stacy would place a punch to the wobbly girl to take her down. Either way, Molly's inexperience and brashful youth will drop her.

Winner - Stacy

JewishHobbit

11-03-2006, 04:52 PM

Molly Hayes Vs. Stacy X

Tween Vs. Ho

Interesting fight. Molly is more than likely immune to Stacy's powers due to age, gender, and the nature of her own powers. She is too young for hormones to be pumping wildly through her system, so if not immune then at least a fair amount of protection. Also, Molly's female which, again if not immune, then a fair amount of protection. Molly's own powers have been suggested to be psionic in nature, which would mean they'd protect her mind while using them. also, Molly is strong enough to chuck a Godzilla-sized monster off, I don' doubt she could take care of Stacy-X. Plus, whatever you want to say about Molly, she's smart. she'd be smart enough to see through whatever pheremone illusions Stacy-X tried to throw up.

There's no reason why Molly would be immune to anything Stacy can do. Stacy's powers aren't based on sex, as she's talked about doing the same thing to females too. Molly is indeed young, but she's hit puberty, giving her her powers... therefor, the hormones are flowing. Molly hasn't been confirmed as having psionic natured powers, mostly that's only mentioned by fans on fansights, such as this one. We can't assume it for the fight. And not only that, but Stacy's powers aren't one having to do with telepathy, or mental powers, it's all physical and chemical. I'll give it to you that Molly's smarter than she plays, but there's no illusions to Stacy's powers either. It's real emotions and physical pleasure that she makes someone feel. Molly's every bit as vulnerable to Stacy's powers as anyone else.

as for prep-time: It was already shown that the Pride had a database on known meta-humans. since Stacy was living and working with the X-Men before the Pride's downfall it is probably that she's in there, also, Molly can ask Leapfrog (Since it is shown that they are friends) what to do about the pheremones, if she doesn't already know. Molly would probably march into the fight with rags up her nose rendering her immune to Stacy-X's Pheremones.

Stacy wasn't with the x-men long, so I doubt that she'd be in their files for any reason, so I doubt that would really fly. As for leapfrog, he could teach her perhaps, but he'd have to know of Stacy's powers, and I dont' think that he would. And rags up the nose would do squat, as the phermones aren't inhaled. It's based on physical touch.

Now Stacy-X may be a great hand to hand fighter, but we've seen Molly get smashed with an enchanted shovel and not even flinch or move. Let me repeat that: She was smashed with an enchanted shovel and didn't even bat an eye. You think Stacy-X's fist or feet are going to do much to her.

Fortunately, Stacy's focus is seldom based on physically fighting.

Anonymity is also on Molly's side. No one has any idea about the Runaways powers except for: the Runaways, Excelsior, and possibly the Avengers. Stacy-X doesn't have access to any of those databases. she won't know to make it a long battle. plus, Molly is deceptively cute and adorable. and I mean that literally, Deceptive. Molly is clever and cunning. she will have Stacy trying to go for a quick and painless knock out because Molly's all scared, her only power is glowing... BAM! Stacy-X is plastered to the wall.

The mentions of the Runaways has hit the news quite a bit. They've been mentioned a few times, such as in Civil War. Not only that, but they were seen in New York as well, so they've been seen. All it'd take is a visit to a computer to look them up and match the face to the bio. I'd think there's more of a chance that Stacy knows Molly than Molly knowing Stacy, but that's just my opinion, and something that niether of us can prove.

And it looks like we have the same idea... basically, Stacy or Molly leaps forward to attack, one counter attack then claims victory. Thing is... if Molly tries to punch Stacy, she has average speed like an average kid, whereas Stacy is quick and can dodge it. Even if Stacy leaps first, she's not dumb and wouldn't just leap at the kid. She'd be prepared to counter an attack, and a simple punch isn't hard to dodge, then just quick skin contact would claim the match... my way.

Winner - Stacy

Zoken

11-03-2006, 05:19 PM

wiegeabo

11-03-2006, 05:46 PM

Adam Warlock vs. Aurora

Aurora has speed, blinding light, and some limited blasts of energy.

Against Adam Warlock who can break the sound barrier, has super-human durability, and wields cosmic energy blasts.

Not to diminish Aurora's effectiveness, but even with information on Adam, he'd still simply have her outclassed. And if Aurora can't get any info, she's going to be hurting even more.

Granted, this prison was designed to hold super-powered criminals. But even if Aurora could trick Adam to fall into a trap, he'd still be likely to get out with his sheer cosmic powers. And he'd be just as likely to trap her.

All-in-all, Adam should be able to take this fight in little time.

Adam Warlock wins

Phaedrus45

11-03-2006, 08:00 PM

Possibly the most one-sided battle of Round 1, Wiegeabo has it so easy, he doesn't even have to worry about a rebuttal to his argument.

Poor Aurora, if memory serves me correctly, she had a terrible battle in Season 1, too. (Although, I could be wrong.)

JewishHobbit

11-04-2006, 10:02 AM

If you want to use Civil War information you have to use Post-M-Day Stcy X, which means NO powers.

That is somethign Else, in the Generation M limited series Stacy X gave an interview to a magazine, meaning her name and powers would be public knowledge, and thus accessable. Again, Molly asks Leapfrog, leapfrog searches for her, and BOOM we know about Stacy's powers.

All depowered mutants are pre-M-day... meaning that Generation M and Civil War are no no's for her. The mention of Civil War on my behalf was just showing that the Runaways are known... that wouldn't change before or after Civil War. They became known prior to Civil War or M-Day. That's all that was being said.

Pheramones ARE in fact inhaled

So Molly can protect herself with rags in the nose and a proper mouthguard.

Can be inhaled, yes... but Stacy's shown in the past many times that all it takes is a touch. She touched Iceman and he was nearly out. There's been comments that simple touches makes a person tingly and intoxicated. If Pheramones are only inhaled, then the people at Marvel messed up, and that's something that works completely in my favor! Therefor, rags up Molly's nose won't help.

Molly fakes being emotional, but she would know when her head is being screwed with.

True, but it's a quick act, and if people like Iceman, Vanisher, Black Tom, Blob, and others can fall to it, then the same should hold true to Molly. She has no extra mental protection and no extra training, like Iceman specifically would have. She's vulnerable... not to mention, no matter how she acts... if Stacy made her (heaven forbid) orgasm... for the first time I assume, she ain't going to just pretend it didn't happen. She'd be pretty messed up, and that's all it'd take for Stacy to taker her out.

Your best hope isn't people voting FOR Stacy, it's people voting AGAINST Molly.

Either way works for me, but for the most part, the people at the Contest of Marvels don't vote favorates (and I'd expect it to stay that way). Trust me, I hate Stacy, but I'd vote for her over Molly because I can't see Molly winning.

and puberty has nothing to do with the possession of mutant powers. Jaime Madrox had his powers since birth. The powers TYPICALLY emerge during that time, but not necessarily.

True, same with Nightcrawler and such... the thing is, Molly is at that age, they even commented on it when her powers developed. If I'm remembering correctly her parents commented on it, and then Karolina and the others commented that it was time for her to hit puberty (and initially thought that's what she was talking about when she was talking about her powers). It's the age man, she's at puberty age... it's a natural fact.

Zoken

11-04-2006, 05:42 PM

but isn't necessarily going through purberty. that fact remains.

Phaedrus we need another judgment call on powers when it comes to the pheremones (Note: Neither me nor Jewhob can spell worth crap). and if Molly is Post M-Day can she use information gained post M-Day.

like I said in another fight, time is litereally on her side as she can be taken later than Stacy-X meaning she'll have more information that Stacy-X did.

as for the people you mentioned being messed with, they are all emotional people to start with. Someone like Warren Worthignton III or Kurt Wagner who are not so emotional can resist as shown when she tried to seduce them.

also, to support my point on pheremones, In New X-Men: Mutant Acadamy era, Wallflower is also a pheremone user, and they make the point that pheremones are transmitted on air.

as for mental protection: she is the daughter of two powerful telepaths, I doubt they left their daughter without some measure of protection, I mean she was able to partially see through the Chameleon glamour of Geoffery Wilder by detecting that his accent was fake. also her appearance heavily suggests that her power is psionic in nature.

I know all of that is conjecture, but I'm allowed to use conjecture I believe.

wiegeabo

11-04-2006, 08:11 PM

hippy fascist

11-05-2006, 11:37 AM

Thunderbird (eXiles) vs Radioactive Man

With regards to information, Lu isn't going to be able find any information on Thunderbird because he's from a different timeline. Similarly, John won't know anything about Lu, unless there was a counterpart in John's timeline. But the name Radioactive Man should tell John much more about his opponent than the name Thunderbird will tell Lu.[quote]

And as I said before lu, unable to make use of his preptime will simply seek to make himself stronger. All he has to do is find a reasonable source of radiation and start soaking it up. If lu was able to simply sit and meditate for 24hrs while sitting on a pile of uranium (shouldn't have a problem getting any, this guy used to be one of the masters of evil, he's pretty well connected) he'd be nearly as strong as pre-crisis superman. More than enough to put a good few dents in Thunderbird's toughened hide.

Also wasn't thunderbird originally a 616 x-man meaning that Lu could get info on his counterpart but for my mind info would be a downside. Gathering info will mean lu will try to react in a set pattern when in reality the best thing he can do in this fight is simply give thunderbird a dose of each of his finest abilites. Prepare for everything, focus on nothing.

[quote]
Lu's bio says he can turn energy into enough strengh to take on a fully charges Sub-Mariner. Namor is no souch, but he can't take on the Hulk. Yet Thunderbird has put the Hulk down before. Infact, John was able to punch a hole into Galactus. It may have been a weak Galactus, but even a weak Galactus can take out most characters in this tournament.

In that state Mjolnir could have smashed a whole through galactus with ease and yet Lu's Forcefield has previously been able to repel the hammer (and this wasn't a weakened thor!). Proudstar might be able to get a few good shot's in but the ammount of force they're gonna be reduced by is going to make this look like JJJ fighting spider-man. Lu's forcefield will absorb most of the impact and since he's been sitting on a pile of uranium for the previous 24 hours his increased strength and durability should be able to mop up any excess.

Strenghth-wise, Thunderbird has this fight.

Maybe but as i previously mentioned, even hyperion got ***** slapped by Lu recently, he's packing some serious strength and he didn't stand a chance.

Skill-wise, John also has a big advantage. John was War, a Horseman of Apocalypse. This man knows how to fight. He was even one of the top fighters on an Earth the Skrulls ruled where they made the superpowered beings fight.

WAS WAR...he is not war now, while he may retain some of his memories/abilities the majority will have been lost when "the spell was broken". Yes he's a great fighter but so is radioactive man. The only difference is that radioactive man can hold his own well in a scrap but has other abillities to back it up as well. This is the only thing john's good at.

Lu's ability to use radiation as weapon is his biggest advantage. But Thunderbird should have more than enough resistance to take care of his opponent.
Hardly, radiation poisoning is not like taking a physical hit, your cells break down from within. John is tough because his skin is denser than other people's. While it may take slightly longer for the radiation poisoning to kill him he's still going down. With the kind of dose Lu will hand him he'll be lucky if he's still standing within 2 minutes. The longer the fight goes on the weaker proudfoot's going to get. People hundreds of miles away from a nuclear explosion still die from the fallout. No matter how tough you are (wolverine excluded) Someone focuses the equivalent of a one-megaton A-bomb at your chest and you're going down.

Again, this should be an interesting fight. But I think John should be able to take this one.

Thunderbird wins

Thunderbird's a great character and up against ANY flat out brawler in this competition he'd stand a damn good chance of winning. However, lu has the ability to bypass his defences with radiation. He can make himself near invulnerable with his shields and while John's busy with bits an pieces falling off his body from radiation poisoning Lu can come in and start helping the process along.

Remember, thunderbird died in an ordinary explosion on a plane. Kick in the secret ingredient of heavy radiation and he doesn't stand a chance.

WINNER: RADIOACTIVE MAN!

Zoken

11-05-2006, 05:32 PM

I have confirmation that I can use Post-M-Day information for Molly's prep-time.

now In mammals and reptiles, pheromones may be detected by the vomeronasal organ, or Jacobson's organ, which lies between the nose and mouth, although some are detected by regular olfactory membranes.

which means pheromones must be inhaled, which means Molly could easily protect her self by obtaining an appropriate barrier easily found in the Hostel.

Phaedrus45

11-05-2006, 06:22 PM

Yeah, just so it's clarified, a few of the mutants who lost their powers due to House Of M would be Pre-M-Day. But, if your mutant wasn't effected in an adverse way due to that event, you can figure it goes up to Civil War. (For example, events currently happening in "Young Avengers and Runaways," the Civil War tie-in, wouldn't be allowed for either of those groups.)

POWdER-man

11-05-2006, 09:34 PM

ADAM WARLOCK vs AURORA Better BIO (http://alphanex.alphaflight.net/index.php/Aurora)

Even with access to Alpha Flight's files it would still be debatable on whether she would have any information on Adam Warlock, but again Adam has been to Earth a few times and a powerful being like him would be hard-pressed not be noticed and talked about. And again, Alpha Flight has worked alongside the Avengers, X-Men and Dr. Strange to name a few. So I think it would be safe to say that she probably can acquire a slight amount of information but probably not much. But she would also be able to aquire information on the prison and use this in her strategy.

As for the match itself, we enter the match already in progress.

Aurora sits against a wall, panting and thinking about only mere seconds before. "Damn I thought I could get the jump on him but he is more resistant that I thought." Her metabolism heals her wounds at a considerable rate and she ponders on her next move. "He has got a bit of speed but I definitely got the edge (99.9% of light which she can move at and not just fly). I think I even hurt him by hitting him on the same spot, but he's tough and powerful. That blast nearly took my head off. Luckily I ducked it in time, and it only singed my shoulder. As she takes a gander on her right shoulder. "Just a few more seconds and I should be right as rain."

She gets up and restratigizes. She exits the room, and looks down the hallway, there is only one way to get his attaention as she generates a concussive blast. She blasts towards the direction she last saw Adam. This brings the side of the building crashing down. She accelerates out the exit door as everything comes slamming down with enough force to compare to an earthquake. She looks back and wonders if anyone could survive such destruction. Just at that moment, out from the rubble, Adam resurfaces from the building with a little wear and tear but angry as hell.

She creates a white bright flash that temporary blinds Adam. She takes this opportunity to come up quick on Adam and she touches Adam and speeds his molecules and tears them apart (ie) (http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/WeaponX01-10.jpg). This causes Adam great pain and throws him flying backwards. He reacts and shoots a cosmic blast but this was easily anticipated by Aurora. She speeds up to him throws a few concussive and lighting blast to throw him off. Adam is too tough for her, even with everything she has thrown at him. He his still standing and fighting. She has to think quick on what to do, when she notices the armory/weapons room peaking from the ruins. "There's got to be something powerful enough to take this beast down. But I got to lead him over there some how." She decides to do so but she needed to get up close and dirty. She goes full speed and uses her body as a projectile. She hits Adam with all she has and pushes him towards the weapons room. Just as she gets up close to the spot she wants him in, she releases a massive concussive blast. This hits it's target right on, as they enter the center of the blast. She turns into light (ie) (http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/AlphaFlight95-07.jpg)just as the missile heads explode and level the remaining structure of the building. The blast could be heard from miles away and could be felt even farther.

In the aftermath of the explosion and when the smoke clears Aurora returns to her normal form and searches the rubble. "Surely no one could survive that." She sees a figure laying on the ground and she can only hope it's Adam because she has nothing left. Luckily it is Adam, and she pulls out an unlikely victory. Now it's time to take a vacation.

WINNER AURORA

wiegeabo

11-05-2006, 10:31 PM

Adam Warlock vs Aurora

The new bio actually makes Aurora an opponent. This could be a match after all.

But Adam's power still far outclasses Aurora's. It looks like she can fire off her own blasts. But Adam controls cosmic energy, and should be able to resist and overpower Aurora in this regard.

And Adam is incredibly durable. This is a man who can fight Thanos, so any damage Aurora inflicts by speeding up his molecules will hurt, but would probably not stop him before he stops her. And as for collapsing the building down on him, Adam could wrap himself in a protective cocoon. Then emerge better than he was before.

Or Adam could pull his patented appear from certain doom trick. The building collapses. Aurora takes a moment to look at what she's done, she turns around, and there stands Adam. He takes her out.

Speed is Aurora's only real advantage. But she can't really risk going too fast without injuring herself, especially if she remains confined within the prison. An Warlock can travel fast himself. Not as fast as Aurora, but it should help in the fight.

I still think Adam has more than enough to finish this fight and come away the victor.

Adam Warlock wins

Trigger

11-06-2006, 11:42 AM

BRACKET 2,

Match 7:
Match 8:

Sunfire - Exiles (HELLSTORMER) bio (http://www.mutanthigh.com/alternatex/exiles/sunfire.html)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_sunfire.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=sunfire.jpg&refPage=60&imgAnch=imgAnch62)

vs.

Grim Reaper (TRIGGER) bio (http://www.marvel.com/universe/Grim_Reaper)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_Grim-Reaper.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=Grim-Reaper.jpg&refPage=300&imgAnch=imgAnch301)

Grim Reaper vs Sunfire (Exiles)

This fight is pretty simple as far as fights go. To be quite frank, Sunfire is out-classed in this fight. Given the amount space in this area its really up to ol' Grimmy if he wants to fight her head-on, or steathily eliminate her from behind by casting an illusion and then ripping her to shreds with his scythe. Honestly, I simply can't think of how Sunfire could get in a lick edge-wise without Grim anticipating it. Sunfire doesn't stand a chance.

Winner= Grim Reaper :meow:

Trigger

11-06-2006, 11:48 AM

Rebuttal :meow:

Ok this is pre-Crystal PLace so Sunfire wouldn't have the wealth of knowledge but still she's fought the undead before and people with more powers. His shapeshifting won't be a problem since she knows who she's facing. His teleporation could get him close enough to try and suck energy but she would just burn him up. Her main goal here would try to be keeping distance and nailintg him with fire, whihc always effects zombies. Overall this could pose difficulty but I think Sunfire could take it. O and he wouldn't be allowed to call his minions, as stated in the rules.

Unless she completely consumed the area in a nuclear rage, there's no way Sunfire would be able to bypass his illusions. Him having teleportation at his hands only makes this easier.

Wasting your energy on illusions and tiring out
+
being hit with a life-force draining scythe from behind
_____________________________________________

dead woman walking

Hellstormer

11-06-2006, 05:53 PM

Rebuttal :meow:

Unless she completely consumed the area in a nuclear rage, there's no way Sunfire would be able to bypass his illusions. Him having teleportation at his hands only makes this easier.
Sunfire's been known to have a short temper and, in the past, she has just nuked the entire place if she felt overpowered. She would give it time gauge him and in a last attempt she would probaly let loose. This is where he could win, teleported for that second he could have a very weak Sunfire graveling before him but if he missed that opportunity he'd be fried....extra crispy.;)

JewishHobbit

11-06-2006, 07:36 PM

but isn't necessarily going through purberty. that fact remains.

I think it was hinted at quite enough in the first arc. It's not something that someone's just going to shout "I'm going through puberty!" I think it can be safely assumed.

Phaedrus we need another judgment call on powers when it comes to the pheremones (Note: Neither me nor Jewhob can spell worth crap). and if Molly is Post M-Day can she use information gained post M-Day.

like I said in another fight, time is litereally on her side as she can be taken later than Stacy-X meaning she'll have more information that Stacy-X did.

Yep, as Phaed said, Molly is post M-Day, as Stacey is Pre-M Day. It'd give Molly some extra time to have experience and such, but it still won't help much. The only possible was is the article on depowered mutants that came out (Generation M) in which Stacy was in it... but it was a New York run paper I believe, and Molly's a runaway in LA. Very little chance she's read it. So I think all this gives is a little experience.

as for the people you mentioned being messed with, they are all emotional people to start with. Someone like Warren Worthignton III or Kurt Wagner who are not so emotional can resist as shown when she tried to seduce them.

Iceman's just as good as Warren and Kurt, and all it took was a touch and he was nearly out. It's just that some have stronger wills to resist it apparently, but Molly's just a kid. She doesn't have a strong Faith like Nightcrawler to fall back on, or the life long scaring that Warren's endered. She's a niave girl that wouldn't know what hit her.

also, to support my point on pheremones, In New X-Men: Mutant Acadamy era, Wallflower is also a pheremone user, and they make the point that pheremones are transmitted on air.

This is true... however, it doesn't matter. The reason why is that we have our characters the way they've been written, and though it's not physically possible in real life (as far as I know) Stacy's pheremones do NOT need inhaled, comic examples prove it. This is a FACT case where it doesn't matter what can really happen, because this is how her character has functioned from day one. To say that suddenly people HAVE to inhale the pheremones is forcing her to be out of character, and that's not legit. It's like saying that Cyclops' eyes explode when he fires off a blast, because it isn't possible for a lazer to come out of a person's eyes and not fry them. It just happens, and that's that. Same with Stacy's pheremones.

as for mental protection: she is the daughter of two powerful telepaths, I doubt they left their daughter without some measure of protection, I mean she was able to partially see through the Chameleon glamour of Geoffery Wilder by detecting that his accent was fake. also her appearance heavily suggests that her power is psionic in nature.

It doesn't take a genious to tell a fake accent, just a good ear... and a good ear ain't going to help when your bodies suddenly doing things you've never known before. And as for the psionic nature of her power, nothing is proven. She has glowing eyes, yes, but it's not enough to state for certain that she'd have psionic resistance. Would Gambit have psionic resistance because he has glowing eyes? Or Cyclops? Or Havoc when he's about to power up, or Magneto, or Polaris, or anyone else that has glowing eyes? While some people may have linked her to psionic powers, not enough clues have been given beyond fandom guesses that her powers are psionic. That said, we have to stick with the facts when it comes to things like that, or it's just reaching. The facts... Molly's strong. Molly gets tired and weak real fast. Molly's smart, but still inexperienced, niave, and a kid. That's about all we have to go with. That's not enough to beat a veteran fighter and soemone whose highly trained in her powers (even before she became an X-Man) and an expert in mental manipulation. Stacey has this, and she's messed up enough to consider the match a 'life lesson' for the little girl.

Winner - Stacy

And note... after rereading it, I know it's going to be thrown back at me, so I'll go ahead and address it. It's a major stretch in assuming powers for an individual. It's not the same as my assuming Molly is going through puberty. Age is all estimation and doesn't change the character, whereas powers do. Some assumption is fine if it doesn't change the character... powers aren't.

wiegeabo

11-06-2006, 08:00 PM

In that state Mjolnir could have smashed a whole through galactus with ease and yet Lu's Forcefield has previously been able to repel the hammer (and this wasn't a weakened thor!). Proudstar might be able to get a few good shot's in but the ammount of force they're gonna be reduced by is going to make this look like JJJ fighting spider-man. Lu's forcefield will absorb most of the impact and since he's been sitting on a pile of uranium for the previous 24 hours his increased strength and durability should be able to mop up any excess.

Maybe but as i previously mentioned, even hyperion got ***** slapped by Lu recently, he's packing some serious strength and he didn't stand a chance.

WAS WAR...he is not war now, while he may retain some of his memories/abilities the majority will have been lost when "the spell was broken". Yes he's a great fighter but so is radioactive man. The only difference is that radioactive man can hold his own well in a scrap but has other abillities to back it up as well. This is the only thing john's good at.

Hardly, radiation poisoning is not like taking a physical hit, your cells break down from within. John is tough because his skin is denser than other people's. While it may take slightly longer for the radiation poisoning to kill him he's still going down. With the kind of dose Lu will hand him he'll be lucky if he's still standing within 2 minutes. The longer the fight goes on the weaker proudfoot's going to get. People hundreds of miles away from a nuclear explosion still die from the fallout. No matter how tough you are (wolverine excluded) Someone focuses the equivalent of a one-megaton A-bomb at your chest and you're going down.

Thunderbird's a great character and up against ANY flat out brawler in this competition he'd stand a damn good chance of winning. However, lu has the ability to bypass his defences with radiation. He can make himself near invulnerable with his shields and while John's busy with bits an pieces falling off his body from radiation poisoning Lu can come in and start helping the process along.

Remember, thunderbird died in an ordinary explosion on a plane. Kick in the secret ingredient of heavy radiation and he doesn't stand a chance.

John may not have all the memories and skills he did when he was War, although he has more than enough to handle himself in a number of battles on the Skrull-Earth, but he still has all the strength and durability. When John 'hulks' out, he mows down everything. Even the Hulk. He even survived the massive discharge of Galactus' energy and explosion from the bomb when he forced Galactus to flee.

And Thunderbird wasn't killed in an airplane.  He was injured by taking out Galactus. And it still didn't kill him. He was in a coma, but he survived. And I doubt Radiation Man can put that much of a hurt on John when he's powered up before Thunderbird gets to him and makes him pay. Especially if, by attacking John, Lu's forcefield loses integrity.

Thunderbird wins

Zoken

11-06-2006, 11:30 PM

I think it was hinted at quite enough in the first arc. It's not something that someone's just going to shout "I'm going through puberty!" I think it can be safely assumed.

Yep, as Phaed said, Molly is post M-Day, as Stacey is Pre-M Day. It'd give Molly some extra time to have experience and such, but it still won't help much. The only possible was is the article on depowered mutants that came out (Generation M) in which Stacy was in it... but it was a New York run paper I believe, and Molly's a runaway in LA. Very little chance she's read it. So I think all this gives is a little experience.It can't be assumed that she has access to a new york written article despite the fact that she lives with a database on known super-humans designed by mad scientists and explorers from the future and is friends with a peice of the hardward linked up to all of that and has been shown to ask it questions, However it can be assumed she must be in puberty?

[qoute=JewishHobbit]Iceman's just as good as Warren and Kurt, and all it took was a touch and he was nearly out. It's just that some have stronger wills to resist it apparently, but Molly's just a kid. She doesn't have a strong Faith like Nightcrawler to fall back on, or the life long scaring that Warren's endered. She's a niave girl that wouldn't know what hit her.[/quote]She hasn't had life long scarring? She the youngest member of her team, she watched her parents and former leader DIE after they tried to kill her. Her best friend Gert just died after Molly herself was kidnapped by a person she knew to be dead, and she probably believed she was about to be sacrificed. Yeah, none of that was scarring whatso ever

This is true... however, it doesn't matter. The reason why is that we have our characters the way they've been written, and though it's not physically possible in real life (as far as I know) Stacy's pheremones do NOT need inhaled, comic examples prove it. This is a FACT case where it doesn't matter what can really happen, because this is how her character has functioned from day one. To say that suddenly people HAVE to inhale the pheremones is forcing her to be out of character, and that's not legit. It's like saying that Cyclops' eyes explode when he fires off a blast, because it isn't possible for a lazer to come out of a person's eyes and not fry them. It just happens, and that's that. Same with Stacy's pheremones. can you prove that they weren't inhaled? That her touching them was just a way to be closer and give them a bigger dose of the pheromones? has she ever used these powers on someone who had their airways protected.

It doesn't take a genious to tell a fake accent, just a good ear... and a good ear ain't going to help when your bodies suddenly doing things you've never known before. And as for the psionic nature of her power, nothing is proven. She has glowing eyes, yes, but it's not enough to state for certain that she'd have psionic resistance. Would Gambit have psionic resistance because he has glowing eyes? Or Cyclops? Or Havoc when he's about to power up, or Magneto, or Polaris, or anyone else that has glowing eyes? While some people may have linked her to psionic powers, not enough clues have been given beyond fandom guesses that her powers are psionic. That said, we have to stick with the facts when it comes to things like that, or it's just reaching. The facts... Molly's strong. Molly gets tired and weak real fast. Molly's smart, but still inexperienced, niave, and a kid. That's about all we have to go with. That's not enough to beat a veteran fighter and soemone whose highly trained in her powers (even before she became an X-Man) and an expert in mental manipulation. Stacey has this, and she's messed up enough to consider the match a 'life lesson' for the little girl. Regarding her eyes: Her parents were telepaths whose eyes glowed when they were using their powers. That is the entire reason for the suspicious of psionic powers when their eyes glow, not just glowing eyes, but the familial trait. Also remember that thanks to the Summers Family we know that Psionic powers are a dominant trait. Now as for her skill? She's an extremely bright girl, not at all naive. she acts that way to keep people off their guard. She may be young but she is also experienced. and Molly's powers only burn out quickly when she strains herself or over exerts herself. if she does simple feats, like say lifting heavy parts for the leap frog, she's shown to have plenty of energy. also her powers give her invulnerability. A guy shattered a shovel over her head and she didn't even flinch. whats more it was an enchanted shovel. she didn't blink or even go "ow". she tossed him ten blocks away.

Winner - Stacy

And note... after rereading it, I know it's going to be thrown back at me, so I'll go ahead and address it. It's a major stretch in assuming powers for an individual. It's not the same as my assuming Molly is going through puberty. Age is all estimation and doesn't change the character, whereas powers do. Some assumption is fine if it doesn't change the character... powers aren't.[/quote]

hippy fascist

11-07-2006, 12:54 PM

John may not have all the memories and skills he did when he was War, although he has more than enough to handle himself in a number of battles on the Skrull-Earth, but he still has all the strength and durability. When John 'hulks' out, he mows down everything. Even the Hulk. He even survived the massive discharge of Galactus' energy and explosion from the bomb when he forced Galactus to flee.

And Thunderbird wasn't killed in an airplane.  He was injured by taking out Galactus. And it still didn't kill him. He was in a coma, but he survived. And I doubt Radiation Man can put that much of a hurt on John when he's powered up before Thunderbird gets to him and makes him pay. Especially if, by attacking John, Lu's forcefield loses integrity.

Thunderbird wins

Lu doesn't need to go anywhere near John. He can hit him from 200yrds away before John's even started to move. His invulnerability that stands him in such good stead normally will prove useless against this.

Also as I said before there is no upper limit that has ever been mentioned on radioactive man's ability to augment himself with radiation. He'll have soaked up all that concentrated radiation in his preptime and will still be augmenting himself with background radiation as the fight goes on. A single dose of radiation and john's strength will start to slip away by the second. Maybe if this was a fight in an open plain then john could win simply by charging his opponent but the labyrinthine complex the fight takes place in put's the ball in the court of a thinker like radioactive man (GENIUS LEVEL) rather than a brawler like john. If Lu brings his heavily augmented A-game, john won't even get within 10 yards of him.

Light's out for the brawler

WINNER:RADIOACTIVE MAN!

wiegeabo

11-07-2006, 01:15 PM

Lu doesn't need to go anywhere near John. He can hit him from 200yrds away before John's even started to move. His invulnerability that stands him in such good stead normally will prove useless against this.

Also as I said before there is no upper limit that has ever been mentioned on radioactive man's ability to augment himself with radiation. He'll have soaked up all that concentrated radiation in his preptime and will still be augmenting himself with background radiation as the fight goes on. A single dose of radiation and john's strength will start to slip away by the second. Maybe if this was a fight in an open plain then john could win simply by charging his opponent but the labyrinthine complex the fight takes place in put's the ball in the court of a thinker like radioactive man (GENIUS LEVEL) rather than a brawler like john. If Lu brings his heavily augmented A-game, john won't even get within 10 yards of him.

Light's out for the brawler

Remember that this was a prison designed to contain superhuman criminals. It has to be designed with energy/radiation users in mind. Which means that the walls and floors are likely radiation resistant (probably thick lead inside them) that would limit, if not block, Lu's radiation. So until John gets in line of sight of Lu, the effects of his radiation will probably be minimal at best. And by that point, Thunderbird's already charging ahead.

And John's nut just some dumb brute. He's an intelligent man with good fighting and hunting skills. Only when he 'hulks' out does he lose that. And by that time, Lu's going to be hurting badly.

Lu will fall before John does.

Thunderbird wins

hippy fascist

11-07-2006, 01:19 PM

Remember that this was a prison designed to contain superhuman criminals. It has to be designed with energy/radiation users in mind. Which means that the walls and floors are likely radiation resistant (probably thick lead inside them) that would limit, if not block, Lu's radiation. So until John gets in line of sight of Lu, the effects of his radiation will probably be minimal at best. And by that point, Thunderbird's already charging ahead.

And John's nut just some dumb brute. He's an intelligent man with good fighting and hunting skills. Only when he 'hulks' out does he lose that. And by that time, Lu's going to be hurting badly.

Lu will fall before John does.

Thunderbird wins

Hardly, firstly how will lead lining in the walls stop a shot straight down a corridor. Secondly in unhulked form he'd be easy to take out or in hulked form he'd be dumb enough to trap

Finally how common do you think radiation users are, energy users yes but not radiation users.

WINNER:RADIOACTIVE MAN!

wiegeabo

11-07-2006, 01:29 PM

Hardly, firstly how will lead lining in the walls stop a shot straight down a corridor. Secondly in unhulked form he'd be easy to take out or in hulked form he'd be dumb enough to trap

Finally how common do you think radiation users are, energy users yes but not radiation users.

Radiation is just a form of energy. So walls dense enough to block energy are dense enough to block radiation. And I already said "until John gets within line of sight." Which means, unless Radiation Man gets a straight shot down a corridor, John's protected by the very walls.

And John can power up pretty far without losing his mind or skills. It's just when he completely powers up does he become a raging monster. And even then he can sometimes reassert control (as when he put the bomb in Galactus). He'll only 'hulk out' if necessary and when he has a clear path at Lu (at which point he'll probably need to hulk out to resist the radiation).

Thunderbird wins

hippy fascist

11-07-2006, 01:38 PM

Radiation is just a form of energy. So walls dense enough to block energy are dense enough to block radiation. And I already said "until John gets within line of sight." Which means, unless Radiation Man gets a straight shot down a corridor, John's protected by the very walls.

And John can power up pretty far without losing his mind or skills. It's just when he completely powers up does he become a raging monster. And even then he can sometimes reassert control (as when he put the bomb in Galactus). He'll only 'hulk out' if necessary and when he has a clear path at Lu (at which point he'll probably need to hulk out to resist the radiation).

Thunderbird wins

still not buying it

Firstly energy proof is down to heat/force/light radiation simply doesn't work in that way. It travels at random through the air not as some focused beam (unless lu's wielding it :woot: ) You can fire a laser at solid steel and it will take a while to burn through. Radiation on the other hand can pass through in seconds. This argument just doesn't hold up. Sorry

how angry was hulk when John Beat him, like Hulk Radiactive man has no upper limit on his strength/durability(other than how much radiation he can absorb (plenty see my earlier arguments!))

If John Hulks Out Radioactive Man can just ride it out inside his forcefield, then when john goes back to normal he simply zaps him with as much radiation as the fat man and little boy were packing. Only this time rather than spreading out over a large portion of Japan it would be focused on an area the size of a postage stamp on John's chest. Even the background radiation that radioactive man WOULD BE GIVING off (this can switched on and off at will) would weaken and eventually kill John. I just don't see how he could win

wiegeabo

11-07-2006, 02:46 PM

still not buying it

Firstly energy proof is down to heat/force/light radiation simply doesn't work in that way. It travels at random through the air not as some focused beam (unless lu's wielding it :woot: ) You can fire a laser at solid steel and it will take a while to burn through. Radiation on the other hand can pass through in seconds. This argument just doesn't hold up. Sorry

how angry was hulk when John Beat him, like Hulk Radiactive man has no upper limit on his strength/durability(other than how much radiation he can absorb (plenty see my earlier arguments!))

How do you think nuclear reactors contain the radiation? Lead, and sometimes lot's of concrete. Enough of any material will block any type of energy (until it eventually absorbs enough to heat up, which isn't as easy as it sounds). And there's really only three types of radiation. Alpha-particles can be blocked by paper. They can't even get through human skin. Beta-particles can get about an inch into the skin (maybe not that much), so a wall should have no problem stopping them. What Lu's likely wielding is gamma-particle radiation, which is blocked by just a few inches of lead.

If John Hulks Out Radioactive Man can just ride it out inside his forcefield, then when john goes back to normal he simply zaps him with as much radiation as the fat man and little boy were packing. Only this time rather than spreading out over a large portion of Japan it would be focused on an area the size of a postage stamp on John's chest. Even the background radiation that radioactive man WOULD BE GIVING off (this can switched on and off at will) would weaken and eventually kill John. I just don't see how he could win

Which gives me another idea. John can literally rip out a large section of wall and use it as a shield, blocking Lu's attacks AND the background radiation he'd be giving off. He could then just use it as a battering ram, forcing Lu against a wall and smashing him with it until Lu's forcefield is drained. Or maybe sealing Lu into an area so his radiation can't escape.

hippy fascist

11-07-2006, 02:51 PM

How do you think nuclear reactors contain the radiation? Lead, and sometimes lot's of concrete. Enough of any material will block any type of energy (until it eventually absorbs enough to heat up, which isn't as easy as it sounds). And there's really only three types of radiation. Alpha-particles can be blocked by paper. They can't even get through human skin. Beta-particles can get about an inch into the skin (maybe not that much), so a wall should have no problem stopping them. What Lu's likely wielding is gamma-particle radiation, which is blocked by just a few inches of lead.

Which gives me another idea. John can literally rip out a large section of wall and use it as a shield, blocking Lu's attacks AND the background radiation he'd be giving off. He could then just use it as a battering ram, forcing Lu against a wall and smashing him with it until Lu's forcefield is drained. Or maybe sealing Lu into an area so his radiation can't escape.

IT's still based on a falshood, it's not radiation proof. IT HAS NEVER BEEN STATED IT'S RADIATION PROOF! The other radiation focussed characters all got their powers from radiation (e.g. hulk) NOT by using it. Since no-one's gonna drop an A-bomb on the prison why would they. Lead is SOFT compare3d to most metals therefore there would be no point putting it in. It's a moot point...

Besides if he's running with the section of wall, at the very least, his feet would be exposed, no matter where radiation hits you once it's in your bloodstream you're ****ed. End of story

I'll accept that maybe one cell might have this (for radioactive man...) but it would be identical in appearance to any other cell. How would John find it unless he hassome special lead detecting powers that someone simply failed to mention...

wiegeabo

11-07-2006, 03:03 PM

Check out the first lines of the prison's description:

Project: Pegasus was originally intended to research alternative (and unusual) forms of energy, but has also been used as a prison (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison) for super-powered individuals.

The place was an energy research center before being a prison. It would have to be designed to contain all manner of exotic particles and energies, including radiation.

And even if, for some reason, it hadn't been designed that way, it's supposed to contain superpowered criminals. With all the energy wielding types out there, you think the designers of the prison are just going to not consider the possibilty of radiation using criminals? Especially since they'd know about radiation using enemies, like Lu, in the first place? I think it's far more plausible that the lab and prison designers (especially the lab designers) would build the base to contain radiation.

And, yes, lead is soft. But it's density makes it an excellent radiation blocker. Which is why it's usually embedded within the center of structurally strong walls.

hippy fascist

11-07-2006, 03:08 PM

wiegeabo

11-07-2006, 03:11 PM

It would just be one of the design features for the variety of criminals. And the lab workers wouldn't rip out the walls when they left, just to get all the equipment out.

Phaedrus45

11-07-2006, 03:12 PM

Voting May Begin!!!

Harlekin

11-07-2006, 03:31 PM

Tough stuff this week, and even had to flip a coin on the T-Bird/Radioactive Man match

Thunderbird (Exiles)
Adam Warlock
Stacy X
Grim Reaper

wiegeabo

11-07-2006, 03:35 PM

Thunderbird (eXiles)
Adam Warlock
Stacy X
Grim Reaper (this was tough)

kytrigger

11-07-2006, 04:36 PM

A number of tough ones this week.

Radioactive Man
Adam Warlock
Grim Reaper
Stacy X

Phaedrus45

11-07-2006, 04:44 PM

*Radioactive Man

*Adam Warlock

*Molly Hayes

*Grim Reaper

WOLVERINE25TH

11-07-2006, 04:46 PM

T-Bird
Warlock
Molly
Sunfire

Darthphere

11-07-2006, 05:17 PM

Thunderbird
Adam Warlock
Stacy X
Grim Reaper

hippy fascist

11-07-2006, 05:20 PM

Radioactive Man (I'm honestly surprised so many people are voting for Thunderbird fair play weigeabo :up: other than deathstrike vs famine that was my most frantic debate so far :cmad: )
Adam Warlock (No contest)
Molly Hayes (Debate convinced me)
Sunfire (51%:49% nearly switched at one point)

Hellstormer

11-07-2006, 05:28 PM

Sunfire (Fire is bad for zombies)

Warlock (Well duh!)

T-Bird (He fougth Galactus once:rolleyes)

Stacy X (I think she would take advantage of this sometimes naive child)

Phaedrus45

11-07-2006, 06:22 PM

Results So Far:

Thunderbird-Exiles currently beating Radioactive Man 5-3
Adam Warlock currently beating Aurora-Weapon X 8-0
Stacey X currently beating Molly Hayes 5-3
Grim Reaper currently beating Sunfire-Exiles 5-3

Zoken

11-07-2006, 07:46 PM

Thunderbird-Exiles
Adam Warlock
Molly "Bruiser" Hayes
Sunfire-Exiles

JewishHobbit

11-07-2006, 08:03 PM

Radioactive Man (Good debate on both sides)
Adam Warlock
Stacy X
Sunfire (Exiles)

Darren Daring

11-08-2006, 01:26 AM

Radioactive Man
Adam Warlock
Stacey X
Sunfire-Exiles

Ahura Mazda

11-08-2006, 07:52 AM

Radioactive Man
Adam Warlock
Stacey X
Sunfire-Exiles

Phaedrus45

11-08-2006, 11:05 AM

Results So Far:

Thunderbird-Exiles tied with Radioactive Man 6-6
Adam Warlock currently beating Aurora-Weapon X 12-0
Stacey X currently beating Molly Hayes 8-4
Sunfire-Exiles currently beating Grim Reaper 7-5

Trigger

11-08-2006, 11:43 AM

Grim Reaper
Radioactive Man
Molly Hayes
Adam Warlock

Midnight Ice

11-08-2006, 03:02 PM

Thunderbird
Adam Warlock
Stacy X
Sunfire

DarkHellRider

11-09-2006, 02:46 AM

Radioactive Man
Adam Warlock
Grim Reaper
Stacy X

Iceman

11-09-2006, 04:33 AM

Thunderbird (Exiles) - My opinion changed with each new debate and it was right down the middle. This deserves a rematch.
Adam Warlock - mismatch
Sunfire (Exiles) - another close one
Stacy X - good debate Zoken but I'm going with my instincts here

Phaedrus45

11-09-2006, 12:57 PM

Final Results:

Thunderbird-Exiles tied with Radioactive Man 8-8
Adam Warlock beat Aurora-Weapon X 16-0
Stacey X beat Molly Hayes 11-5
Sunfire-Exiles beat Grim Reaper 9-7

hippy fascist

11-09-2006, 01:23 PM

good bit of debating their weigeabo, rematch is gonna be a mother****er! :up:

Phaedrus45

11-10-2006, 02:07 AM

Phaedrus45

11-10-2006, 02:56 AM

BRACKET 2,

Match 9:

Iron Clad - U-Foes (WOLVERINE25TH) bio (http://www.marvel.com/universe/Ironclad)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_ironclad.gif (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=ironclad.gif&refPage=300&imgAnch=imgAnch315)

vs.

Half-Life (DARKHELLRIDER) bio (http://www.incrediblehulk.com/halflife.html)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_halflife.gif (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=halflife.gif&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch1)

Match 10:

Magik - Illyana Rasputin (WIEGEABO) bio (http://www.mutanthigh.com/magik.html)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_magik.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=magik.jpg&refPage=360&imgAnch=imgAnch373)

vs.

Black Panther (HARLEKIN) bio (http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/b/blackpanther.htm)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_Black-Panther.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=Black-Panther.jpg&refPage=360&imgAnch=imgAnch370)

Phaedrus45

11-10-2006, 02:57 AM

REMATCH:

Thunderbird - Exiles (WIEGEABO) bio (http://www.mutanthigh.com/alternatex/exiles/thunderbird.html)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_tbird.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=tbird.jpg&refPage=200&imgAnch=imgAnch220)

vs.

Radioactive Man (HIPPY FASCIST) bio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioactive_Man_%28Marvel_Comics%29)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_RadioactiveMan.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=RadioactiveMan.jpg&refPage=380&imgAnch=imgAnch395)

Phaedrus45

11-10-2006, 05:24 AM

Location:

While the dimension of Otherworld is also known as Avalon, the island of Avalon is actually only a small part of the large dimension that is Otherworld. Other places within this dimension include Fomor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fomorians), home of the Fomorians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fomorians), Annwn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annwn), home of the dead, and many other locales associated with Celtic mythology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_mythology). The Starlight Citadel is home of Roma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roma_%28comics%29) and the base of the Captain Britain Corps (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Britain_Corps).
In general, Otherworld is a High fantasy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_fantasy) world; gods, elves, dragons and many more live within small towns and large castles with no heavy industry. Large forests and bright lakes separate the several islands and locations from one another. Otherworld is not primitive though, while sorcery and magic is a part of daily life, the Captain Britain Corps and Avalon possess highly advanced technology.

History

In ancient times, there were many ways to travel from Earth to Avalon and back, created by powerful men known as the Twelve Walkers. Six of the Twelve Walkers became corrupt and created false paths that would lead travellers to dangerous places or insanity. The actions of these evil Walkers caused a backlash from the human inhabitants of Earth against all magical creatures and many of these creatures followed the paths to relocate to Otherworld. Most of the paths between Earth and Avalon were destroyed and only a few remain.
After the death of King Arthur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Arthur), his body was taken to Avalon by Merlyn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merlyn). Somehow the city of Camelot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camelot) was also taken to Avalon, including all the Knights of the Round Table (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_of_the_Round_Table).

Merlyn, Roma and the Starlight Citadel

Merlyn created the Starlight Citadel, located on a different island than Avalon. From the Starlight Citadel he founded the Captain Britain Corps (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Britain_Corps), a group of superhuman heroes who would patrol the countless Earths in the Omniverse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omniverse). Merlyn became the Omniversal Guardian and was assisted in his task by the Omniversal Majestor/Majestrix. His task was to safeguard the Omniverse against any threats and the technology Merlyn provided was capable of destroying entire universes that were a threat. When Mad Jim Jaspers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Jim_Jaspers) appeared, Merlyn faked his death and was replaced by Roma as Omniversal Guardian. Saturnyne (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturnyne) became the Omniversal Majestrix.
Years later, Mastermind (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastermind_%28computer%29) conquered the island of the Starlight Citadel, destroyed most of the Captain Britain Corps and disguised himself as Roma. Mastermind wanted the Amulet of Right and the Sword of Might, two mystical artifacts who had once empowered Brian Braddock, also known as Captain Britain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Britain) and his enemy Joshua Stragg, the Reaver. Braddock found the artifacts before Mastermind and discovered that he was the rightful heir to these artifacts. He used them to defeat Mastermind and Roma named him the new ruler of Otherworld, while she remained as his advisor. Brian recently left his throne after the events in House of M (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_M) and returned to Earth.

The island of Avalon and the Celtic Gods

On the island of Avalon, home to the Celtic Gods also known as the Tuatha da Danaan, Druids would forge the magical artifact known as the Evil Eye. The Eye was given to Prester John, who travelled back to Earth with it. The Celtic Gods themselves would have an endless war with the Fomorians, who would try to invade Avalon repeatedly. The Celtic Gods would receive assistance from Thor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thor_%28Marvel_Comics%29) in repelling several invasions.
One of the Celtic Gods, the Lady of the Lake (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_of_the_Lake) safeguarded Excalibur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excalibur), King Arthur's sword. She became a close ally of the Black Knight (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Knight_%28Dane_Whitman%29) and even gave him Excalibur when he lost his weapon, the Ebony Sword. Years later, the Lady of the Lake gave the Black Knight his new weapons: the Sword of Light and the Shield of Night. In return the Black Knight became her protector. The Black Knight would often travel between Earth and Avalon and seek the Lady of the Lake for advice.

For ease, we'll figure everyone is transported to a different area within Avalon. Since last time we didn't have any inhabitants, this time we will have people within the city.

Ahura Mazda

11-10-2006, 11:34 AM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/JewishHobbit/CoM.jpg

BRACKET 1,

Match 9:

Durok The Demolisher (AHURA MAZDA) bio (http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/durokdml.htm)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_durokdml2.gif (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=durokdml2.gif&refPage=460&imgAnch=imgAnch477)

vs.

Trevor Fitzroy (KYTRIGGER) bio (http://www.mutanthigh.com/fitzroy.html)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_fitzroy.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=fitzroy.jpg&refPage=360&imgAnch=imgAnch371)

First of all, let me introduce you to Durok the Demolisher. He was a creature that was created by Karnilla and Loki (using the Odin Ring) to defeat Thor. He is immensely strong, invulnerable, and can shoot concussive blasts (powerful enough to knock out the Silver Surfer).

You may be asking now how did Thor defeat Durok....well he did not....when the SS found him, Thor was knocked out in the gutter. The SS did not do much better.

No the battle at hand...

First off, please note that neither combattant should know anything about the other.

With regard the battle, Trevor's main power is being able to drain life forces of humans/mutants to use time portals. He also has powerful armour but this will avail him not.

The two will meet pretty much head on given that neither one knows how to prepare for the other. Trevor will not want to engage Durok hand to hand, because the moment he does Trevor is dead.

His other startegy using time portals is good except that he cannot simnply force Durok into one to wisk him away. He also cannot use it himself to affect Durok from the past because (1) he has no point of reference and Durok is from the Asgardian plane and (2) even if he did use it in battle, there is nothing he could do against a creature like Durok.

In the battle, Fitzroy could think himself invincible because of his armour but he would quickly find his armour would not be enough and Durok would live up to his name and completely demolish Fitzroy who would not know the power he would be coming up against. Power that made both Thor and the Siver Surfer tremble.

Harlekin

11-11-2006, 04:52 AM

OPENING ARGUMENT: Black Panther vs Magik

Let's forget about Reginald Hudlin's Black Panther for a moment and think back to that deliciously awesome and badass Black Panther as written by Christopher Priest. Although they are essentially the same character when it comes to equipment and the like, I'd feel dirty saying I have Hudlin's Panther on my team, so let's just keep it Priest-style.

Let's first take a look at his powers:
Strength, speed and endurance
Marvel Directory.Com: The Black Panther is near the pinnicle of human physical perfection, his natural strength and abilities having been heightened by unidentified heart-shaped herb administered only to Wakandan kings during a sacred ascension ritual. The herb is also only in Wakanda. While not superhuman, he is nearly as strong as a human being can become. He can lift (press) a maximum of 750 pounds with supreme effort.
Other skills
Marvel Directory.Com: An accomplished gymnast and acrobat, T'Challa is also an expert tracker. In addition, he has mastered various African martial arts.
Standard equipment
Marvel Directory.Com: T'Challa's Vibranium micro-weave bodysuit not only stops bullets, but saps their momentum. His boots' Vibranium soles absorb sound and impact -- enabling him to leap from structures up to eight stories tall and land without injury, and literally run up the sides of buildings. The Panther's retractable claws contain a new composite of the experimental "anti-metal" Vibranium that can break down other alloys. T'Challa wields an energy dagger that can be fired, thrown or handled like a knife. At its highest setting, the weapon easily can cut through forged steel.
And that's just stuff he's got with him, if he were to go into this match unprepared! Thing is, both contestants get a good 24 hours prep-time, which is just extra gravy for characters such as T'Challa. For information, he's got Avengers resources as well his own. There's no doubt in my mind that the Black Panther will be able to find info on Magik and be able to react accordingly. The same holds true for finding info about Otherworld, and knowledge about the advanced technology there. He only needs to go over the specs of Captain Britain's outfit (before he discovered he didn't need the armour) to get an idea of the technology that awaits him.

In comparison, I also have little doubt that Magik would be able to find info on the Black Panther. This however comes with a stipulation. It's severely outdated info, as some of the equipment he's now carrying with him he only started taking along with him after she died. This leaves her at a severe disadvantage of what the Black Panther is capable of. Her advantage would be in having more knowledge of Otherworld, but it's a hollow advantage, except that she can try and use the magic artefacts there (such as the sword and amulet), but in the case they do not reject her, would simply be too powerful for her to control.

Then there's her powers and skills. Although she may be an adept swordswoman, she is no real match for the Black Panther in hand-to-hand combat. Black Panther is capable of stalemating guys like Captain America and Iron Fist, while Magik is ultimately a teenage girl with little experience in the actual art of fighting besides sword and knife training from an alternate reality Kitty Pryde. Her skills with the sword would also be outclassed by Panther, considering that in his status as royalty, he would have trained in their use since his youth.

Her advantage would solely be in the use of magic spells, and although she is certainly a promising sorceress, she is not yet in the class of magic that someone like Brother Voodoo, one of the Panther's more frequent allies. Lastly, the Panther is no stranger to magic himself, as a large part of Wakanda's culture is built around the religion of the Panther God, himself a mystical entity. The Panther would have access to (as Wikipedia calls it) "a vast array of magical artefacts", that could protect him.

For more of an idea of what the Panther can do, I invite you to look at this respect thread (http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f95/t405357.html), detailing some of the awesome feats he's pulled off. Let's recap a few things here: Black Panther originally tested himself against the Fantastic Four, he's stared down Iron Man, has held his own against guys like Captain America, Iron Fist, Ka-Zar and Wolverine. Heck, he recently one-punched Karnak. And heck, anyone who doubts his ability to counteract magical entities, he was able to rip out Mephisto's heart! Now anyone who still doubts the awesomeness of the Panther, can take a look at this particular thread (http://herochat.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=75726&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=77d912543202ea7a0b1bda33c302f639), which gives a play-by-play of the Panther's feats, by year!

Now we come to the actual fight. Logically, Magik will be searching Otherworld to find the Black Panther so she can at least try and put the smackdown on him. She'll have prepared, but nothing too specific, since her info is both outdated and not too detailed. Black Panther is keeping out of sight, possibly wearing something to make sure he can't be mystically detected, as he works his own sweet sweet technological magic. He beat Mephisto by stopping him from returning to his own dimension. Magik's own power is also tied in squarely to Limbo. If he can do this to Mephisto, he can do it to Magik. Heck, if that somehow fails, he's still got a dozen back-up plans, all easily adaptable to the situation.

Black Panther has the advantage of stealth, the advantage of being able to knock out Magik if he gets up close, able to use technology to knock out Magik from afar, and possibly stop her from using her powers. If she faces him head on, he can beat her, because he's got the strength and the skills. It's however, something he will also avoid until he's completely and utterly sure that victory is inevitable, and it will be, because that's how the Panther rolls.

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/3854/pantherur6.jpg

WINNER=BLACK PANTHER

hippy fascist

11-11-2006, 08:20 AM

Opening argument:Radioactive Man Vs. Thunderbird

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/47/Radioactiveman.png

Ok, second fight and this time the location is only going to help Radioactive Man. There are people everywhere and remembering that Radioactive Man was one of the masters of evil and has generally, up until the thunderbolts, been a nasty piece of work they are gonna come in very handy both as human shields and to help keep John in line. John is one of the good guys but if he hulks up innocent people will get in his way and will therefore get seriously injured/killed. He's not going to be willing to risk this so he's going to be at lower power. Radioactive man on the other hand can use them all as carriers for the radiation poisoning that will be his main weapon in this fight.

He knows John's a brawler through and through from the last fight so that mean for his prep time, once again it's going to be a uranium leeching preperation for Lu. Soaking up all that power for 24 hours he's going to be at uber levels from the very start of this one which gives us three options for taking out Thunderbird:

1. Start smashing up buildings causing them to fall on people. As a hero Thunderbird will be compelled to try and get the people out of the way or at least catch/deflect the debris meaning that Lu can just sit back and dose him with radiation from afar. This fight could be over in minuted if he takes out a big enough building to keep John occupied and gives him everything he's got, we are talking VAPOURISED! Remember, john has very tough skin but like a microwave radiation kills you from the inside out rendering this point moot.

2. There's no threat of lead lined walls here so the second Radioactive Man show's up there's going to be a massive increase in background radiation meaning as long as there's people around and John can't hulk up he's going to be slowly dying of radiation poisoning. On top of that all of the people will mulitply the likelihood of this affecting John as everything they touch or even just stand too close too will become infected spreading the radiation like a virus.
Lu could simply evade him or maintain his forcefield and wait for John to die. John is the kind of guy who will keep fighting even at the point where his organs are turning to mush. Even in his hulked up state I'm not sure John could get through it (besides he cannot risk it with all these people around. John's just not that kind of guy.)

At this point, I want to clear something up from the last debate. A beating on Galactus was mentioned. However, firstly this was a low powered galactus, he was weakened and in this state MANY super strong characters could have "punched a hole through him". Secondly, he did not win this fight. He was so badly ****ed up by galactus in retaliation he ended up in a coma as has not woken up since. So for whoever last week said "he beat freakin' Galactus". He didn't, he got in a couple of good hits and then got his ass handed to him. :o

3. He could simply take him on close quarters. As I said last week RADIOACTIVE MAN HAS NO UPPER LIMITS! Like the Hulk with his anger the more radiation he absorbs the stronger and more durable he becomes. Since he's going to be soaking up raw uranium for the previous 24 hours it will be as if someone showed the hulk a video of betty getting ass-raped by quicksilver (I don't know why quicksilver, it just seems to fit :o ) for 24 hrs. HE WILL BE UPPER HULK LEVELS! Only in radioactive man's case he still retains the genius intelect whereas John and the hulk have to become completely savage to hit these heights. John has knocked out the hulk before but he did it by getting a quick voley of attacks in while hulked up before the hulk got really mad. If that fight had gone on for ten minutes more the Hulk would have battered him. Besides this is a non-issue as John can't take that risk. Lu will be able to punch right through him.To cap it all off the whole time they are fighting John will be slowly dying of radiation poisoning. This is the kind of thor vs hercules fight that goes on for days without stopping. However both of those characters wouldn't be being weakened with each passing minute. After about an hour or so of this John would be so weak he'd barely be able to stand just leaving Lu to finish him off.

This was always going to be a tough match but the people are simply too big an advantage to Radioactive Man. This time there's no doubt in my mind who'd win this :word:

as a final point ( and this is without the uranium bath in prep time)

While the newly-named Radioactive Man was able to initially match Thor, the Thunder God brought his powers into play and used a vortex to transport Lu back to China, where he apparently self-detonated.

So to sum up, he can hold his own against both mjolnir and in hand to hand against a GOD! John isn't nearly that powerful. Smacking galactus in that fight they had was no different to punching say giant man or goliath. Radioactive man has taken on a god with less than his own full power, and it got to the point where thor had to transport him away with magic as he just couldn't beat him. As icing on the cake, upon arriving back in china he'd gotten so worked up he exploded which is essentially the equivalent of an a-bomb going off, and proceeded to reform himself. Even if he didn't beat John in hand to hand, the blast would take him out.

WINNER: RADIOACTIVE MAN!

kytrigger

11-11-2006, 09:02 AM

Match 9:

Durok The Demolisher (AHURA MAZDA) bio (http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/durokdml.htm)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_durokdml2.gif (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=durokdml2.gif&refPage=460&imgAnch=imgAnch477)

vs.

Trevor Fitzroy (KYTRIGGER) bio (http://www.mutanthigh.com/fitzroy.html)

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/th_fitzroy.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/?action=view&current=fitzroy.jpg&refPage=360&imgAnch=imgAnch371)

First off, we'll get the prep time thing out of the way. I don't believe that Durok could get any info on Fitzroy, but Fitzroy should be able to on Durok. In Fitzroy's last appearance, he basically ruled a future earth and called himself the Chronomancer. Now being in the future, he has archives of almost everyone and definately has access to the information. Since he has the ability to teleport into time, he must first know where exactly to go in time. In order to do this, he needs mass amounts of historical archives. This is how he knows where people are at a certain time and can just show up and kidnap/kill them.

Now, on to the powers. Durok is strong. He goes up against Thor. He can also shoot blasts form his hands. While these are good powers, they are very direct powers, unlike Fitzroy's.

Trevor Fitzroy originally had the power to drain a person's life force and then use that energy to open a time portal. But that's not it, he's also had a serious upgrade in powers. He can now open up many more portals than before (and doesn't need to drain someone each time) and more importantly he can freeze a person in time (so they're in stais basically). He is alos found of futuristic weapons and his own futuristic battle armor.

So when the fight starts, it is important to note that Fitzroy will have his battle armor and weapons with him. While these won't make him as strong as Durok, they will let him handle his own, and protect him form Durok. After a while Durok would win if it was a straight up boxing match, but that's not Fitzroy's style.

Fitzroy would want to use his main powers, mainly freezing Durok, and draining his life force.

Fitzroys' main goal would be to freez Durok from a distance so he doesn't even get a scratch on himself, abd then he would eithier just drain Durok's life-force, or he would drain a life-force of one of the villagers in Otherworld, create a time portal, and just throw Durok into the portal. It wouldn't kill Durok, but it would make him lose the battle since he would have no way of getting back to Otherworld.

Now since this isn't a perfect world, Tevor might get hit a couple of times by Durok's blasts, but his battle armor is more than capable of taking some blasts. Either way, Durok has no way to actually defend against Fitzroy's "time freeze" power and once he does that, Fitzroy baically has the battle won.

Winner- Trevor Fitzroy

kytrigger

11-11-2006, 09:16 AM

Rebuttal

First of all, let me introduce you to Durok the Demolisher. He was a creature that was created by Karnilla and Loki (using the Odin Ring) to defeat Thor. He is immensely strong, invulnerable, and can shoot concussive blasts (powerful enough to knock out the Silver Surfer).
All true except that I'd like to point out that while the blasts did knock out the Silver Surfer it was after a long battle and it took multiple blasts (it's not like it was a one shot deal or anything)

First off, please note that neither combattant should know anything about the other.I disagree, Trevor doesn't just omce from the future, he rules it in his last incarnation and would have access to almost all information he could ever want.

[/quote]With regard the battle, Trevor's main power is being able to drain life forces of humans/mutants to use time portals. He also has powerful armour but this will avail him not.[/quote]
Pretty much, except he also has his power to "time freeze" anyone. Also, while the power armor and futuristic weapons wouldn't let him defeat Durok, they definately provide a good wall of protection and make it so that Fitzroy wouldn't die after one hit. They're basically his defensive upgrades for this battle.

The two will meet pretty much head on given that neither one knows how to prepare for the other. Trevor will not want to engage Durok hand to hand, because the moment he does Trevor is dead.
disagree on the prep part (obviously :yay:), but I do agree that Trevor won't try to take Durok head-on (except he would last longer than a moment).

His other startegy using time portals is good except that he cannot simnply force Durok into one to wisk him away. He also cannot use it himself to affect Durok from the past because (1) he has no point of reference and Durok is from the Asgardian plane and (2) even if he did use it in battle, there is nothing he could do against a creature like Durok.

First off, Trevor would time-freeze Durok first so he didn't have to actaully worry about getting hit or anything. Then, he would create a portal and throw Durok in (remember he has plenty of power to lift an immobilized Durok with his armor) or just make a portal in the exact spot Durok is frozen.

In the battle, Fitzroy could think himself invincible because of his armour but he would quickly find his armour would not be enough and Durok would live up to his name and completely demolish Fitzroy who would not know the power he would be coming up against.
Trevor would know better than to think himself invincible. His armor has been destroyed before so he won't go in over-estimating it. In fact, he'll go in with a plan that if works perfectly, he wouldn't even need to use the armor, but he will wear it anyway because he knows things might not work out perfectly.

Not only does Trevor Fitzroy have a number of ways to actually get rid of Durok, but he is also protected from Durok's might as well.

Winner- Trevor Fitzroy

Ahura Mazda

11-11-2006, 09:50 AM

Rebuttal

First off, we'll get the prep time thing out of the way. I don't believe that Durok could get any info on Fitzroy, but Fitzroy should be able to on Durok. In Fitzroy's last appearance, he basically ruled a future earth and called himself the Chronomancer. Now being in the future, he has archives of almost everyone and definately has access to the information. Since he has the ability to teleport into time, he must first know where exactly to go in time. In order to do this, he needs mass amounts of historical archives. This is how he knows where people are at a certain time and can just show up and kidnap/kill them.

I would argue against that. First of all, Durok is an Asgardian creature and only appeared a very short time. trhere is no reason he would be in the history books or any kind of archives. Plus Fitzroy never went to Asgard nor can he. Therefore it is highly unlikely to not say impossible he would have any information on Durok.

Now, on to the powers. Durok is strong. He goes up against Thor. He can also shoot blasts form his hands. While these are good powers, they are very direct powers, unlike Fitzroy's.

Trevor Fitzroy originally had the power to drain a person's life force and then use that energy to open a time portal. But that's not it, he's also had a serious upgrade in powers. He can now open up many more portals than before (and doesn't need to drain someone each time) and more importantly he can freeze a person in time (so they're in stais basically). He is alos found of futuristic weapons and his own futuristic battle armor.

Lets look a look at the way Fitzroy died...Bishop simply held him while portal closed in on him. Therefore his abilities are limited where freezing people are concerned. Even if he can, he has never frozen an Asgardian magical creature like Durok. Durok is neither a human nor a mutant.

So when the fight starts, it is important to note that Fitzroy will have his battle armor and weapons with him. While these won't make him as strong as Durok, they will let him handle his own, and protect him form Durok. After a while Durok would win if it was a straight up boxing match, but that's not Fitzroy's style.

First off his armoury will not let him handle his own, both Thor and the Silver Surfer were not able to handle their own. It would take very little time for Fitzroy to be hurt. Given his confidence, Fitzroy could possible take a couple of blasts head on...which would have been the end of him. Or simply his ego would make him think he could fight Durok albeit breifly. Any overconfidence, which is likely given his lack of knowledge of Durok.

Fitzroy would want to use his main powers, mainly freezing Durok, and draining his life force.

First off, there is no surety he could drain Durok as Durok is a magical Asgardian creature not a mortal man. Fitzroy has never been shown to be able to do that.

Fitzroys' main goal would be to freez Durok from a distance so he doesn't even get a scratch on himself, abd then he would eithier just drain Durok's life-force, or he would drain a life-force of one of the villagers in Otherworld, create a time portal, and just throw Durok into the portal. It wouldn't kill Durok, but it would make him lose the battle since he would have no way of getting back to Otherworld.

It is good to have goals in life but one cannot always attain them. If he did open a time portal which I imagine he will do using a villager, how in the hell is he to throw a creature who can withsatnd both Thor and the Silver Surfer anywhere.

Now since this isn't a perfect world, Trevor might get hit a couple of times by Durok's blasts, but his battle armor is more than capable of taking some blasts. Either way, Durok has no way to actually defend against Fitzroy's "time freeze" power and once he does that, Fitzroy baically has the battle won.

This is your big mistake, even with his armour, one blast let alone two would be enough. Lets not forget the Silver Surfer, who is durable enough to survive the rigours of space and Thor, who has better then Asgardian density, were both knocked out by the concussive force of his blasts.

And Fitzroy's time powers are not limitless, given he was defeated at the end just by Bishop, with maybe a little help of Gambit. Durok's powers dwarf those of both Gamits and Bishops and his uncanny battle cunningness would have the better of Fitzroy....whose only strategy here would be to run for his life.

Ahura Mazda

11-11-2006, 10:07 AM

Rebuttal

All true except that I'd like to point out that while the blasts did knock out the Silver Surfer it was after a long battle and it took multiple blasts (it's not like it was a one shot deal or anything)

It was a few shots but each shot severely stunned the SS.

I disagree, Trevor doesn't just omce from the future, he rules it in his last incarnation and would have access to almost all information he could ever want.

My point was that no information of Durok is likely to be available in the future. Durok is not someone like Captain America or the Hulk who would possibly be remeberred in the future. Durok is a very unknown enemy who had a one-off battle.

Pretty much, except he also has his power to "time freeze" anyone. Also, while the power armor and futuristic weapons wouldn't let him defeat Durok, they definately provide a good wall of protection and make it so that Fitzroy wouldn't die after one hit. They're basically his defensive upgrades for this battle.

I am not sure how many hits it would need as it did not take very long for Durok to put down Thor. Fitzroy is no Thor. And his power to time-freeze is limited given his defeat. If he could simply time-freeze anyone, he would be invincible but this is not the case, given he was killed in a battle using his powers to their utmost.

disagree on the prep part (obviously :yay:), but I do agree that Trevor won't try to take Durok head-on (except he would last longer than a moment).

I don't think he could last that long first of all and second of all his prep time would be limited as he would not know what he was up against.

First off, Trevor would time-freeze Durok first so he didn't have to actaully worry about getting hit or anything. Then, he would create a portal and throw Durok in (remember he has plenty of power to lift an immobilized Durok with his armor) or just make a portal in the exact spot Durok is frozen.

You write that as he could simply time freeze anone whereas you are talking about a guy who was very simply defeated with people using only force. Fitzroy called himself the chronomaster but it was more wishful thinking then anything else.

Trevor would know better than to think himself invincible. His armor has been destroyed before so he won't go in over-estimating it. In fact, he'll go in with a plan that if works perfectly, he wouldn't even need to use the armor, but he will wear it anyway because he knows things might not work out perfectly.

Not only does Trevor Fitzroy have a number of ways to actually get rid of Durok, but he is also protected from Durok's might as well.

Trevor has a very big ego and given his lack of knowledge of Durock, he may think his armour could withstand him whereas it could not. He has very little protection and will be surprised at the prowess of Durock.

Winner - Durock the Demolisher

kytrigger

11-12-2006, 10:59 AM

Rebuttal

Lets look a look at the way Fitzroy died...Bishop simply held him while portal closed in on him. Therefore his abilities are limited where freezing people are concerned. Even if he can, he has never frozen an Asgardian magical creature like Durok. Durok is neither a human nor a mutant.
First let's get the story of his death straight. Yes Bishop held him while his ownn portal closed on him. What you didn't say was everything leading up to that. Bishop way almost dead laying on the floor when Shard switched sides, turned into energy, and allowed Bishop to absorb her so he could shoot Fitroy in the back and then hold him for a second so the portal closed on him.

The reason Bishop beat him was simply for the fact that he didn't see Shard turning on him.

As for not being able to freez Durok, why couldn't he? Just because he is a magical Asgardian creature? Does this magical creature exist in the time stream? Yes, and that is what he affects. It shouldn't matter what they are made of as long as they are actually in the time stream.

First off his armoury will not let him handle his own, both Thor and the Silver Surfer were not able to handle their own. It would take very little time for Fitzroy to be hurt. Given his confidence, Fitzroy could possible take a couple of blasts head on...which would have been the end of him. Or simply his ego would make him think he could fight Durok albeit breifly. Any overconfidence, which is likely given his lack of knowledge of Durok.

No, his ego would not let him think that. His armory is powerful, but even sothen he would use it for defensive puporses. Why the hell would he go an dduke it out with a giant Golem creature. Even if he didn't have any knowledge of Durok (I'll adress this part in a little bit) one look at him and you know what he is. He's a bruiser. Why on earth would Fitzroy decide to not do what he's best at (draining life, freezing in time, etc.) and fight instead? That makes absolutely no sense.

First off, there is no surety he could drain Durok as Durok is a magical Asgardian creature not a mortal man. Fitzroy has never been shown to be able to do that.
He's never been shown to whistle either, but I bet he can. Just because he has never been shown doesn't mean he instantly can't. WHat he is doing is actually draining life-force from beings. Now unless you say that Durok doesn't have a life-force, he should be able to do it. And remember, humans and mutants aren't the same genetically. If he can do it on two different genetic beings, why couldn't he do it on a third type?

It is good to have goals in life but one cannot always attain them. If he did open a time portal which I imagine he will do using a villager, how in the hell is he to throw a creature who can withsatnd both Thor and the Silver Surfer anywhere. Once again, he would freeze Durok. Even if he didn't freeze him (which he would) he can open more than one portal at once. What the hell is Durok gonna do when he opens portals on every side of him and above him?

This is your big mistake, even with his armour, one blast let alone two would be enough. Lets not forget the Silver Surfer, who is durable enough to survive the rigours of space and Thor, who has better then Asgardian density, were both knocked out by the concussive force of his blasts.

Once again, they weren't just knocked out by the blasts. They both had long hard fights with teh guy and were worn down by both his blasts and his fists. Yes, he ended it on a blast, but you make it sound like it was after 2 of them. You also have to remember that both Thor and SS went and actually fought him in hand-to-hand combat, Fitzroy won't do that. His armor will protect him from his blasts long enough to freeze/drain his life/throw him into a portal.

And Fitzroy's time powers are not limitless, given he was defeated at the end just by Bishop, with maybe a little help of Gambit. Durok's powers dwarf those of both Gamits and Bishops and his uncanny battle cunningness would have the better of Fitzroy....whose only strategy here would be to run for his life. Once again, Shard turned on him, that's why he lost. He had beaten Bishop, he was actaully in the process of becoming Time itself (something so big that even the Watcher came down to watch). Not to mention is the fact that even though he did lay a firm beating on everyone, he was actually weaker then because he was actually using his own energy to power his entire fortress. Guess what, that weakens a guy. In this match, he would be at full power.

Winner-Trevor Fitzroy

kytrigger

11-12-2006, 11:13 AM

It was a few shots but each shot severely stunned the SS.

Not nearly as much as his fists hurt the SS. His blasts are the weaker part of his arsenal, he just used them to finish them off. While they are still strong, his armor can withstand them long enough to actually finish the fight.

My point was that no information of Durok is likely to be available in the future. Durok is not someone like Captain America or the Hulk who would possibly be remeberred in the future. Durok is a very unknown enemy who had a one-off battle.

I still think he could get info, and I doubt I could change your mind. I think this is one of those things where it will be up to the voters to decide if he could or couldn't.

I am not sure how many hits it would need as it did not take very long for Durok to put down Thor. Fitzroy is no Thor. And his power to time-freeze is limited given his defeat. If he could simply time-freeze anyone, he would be invincible but this is not the case, given he was killed in a battle using his powers to their utmost.

I might be wrong on this, but I thought that we didn't actaulyl see the entire battle of him and Thor. I htought it was more a we see the beginning, and then SS shows up and Thor is knocked out. While he did beat him, we don't know how much time transpired, it could have been hours.

For the last time (hopefully) HE WAS NOT USING HIS POWERS WHEN BISHOP KILLED HIM. He had beaten Bishop to near death, then he turned his back to him to go into his own portal. That is when Shard turned on Fitzroy and helped Bishop by turnign herself into energy he could absorb. Bishop then got up and just held Fitzroy for a second while his portal closed on him only halfway in. He also, wasn't at full power during any of it because he was using his own energy to power his entire fortress.

You write that as he could simply time freeze anone whereas you are talking about a guy who was very simply defeated with people using only force. Fitzroy called himself the chronomaster but it was more wishful thinking then anything else. Yeah, except that he would have actually succeeded in becoming Time itself if Shard hadn't betrayed him at the last second. He was defeated by being betrayed, NOT BY BRUTE FORCE. Shame on him for trusting someone I guess, but that point is moot in this battle.

Trevor has a very big ego and given his lack of knowledge of Durock, he may think his armour could withstand him whereas it could not. He has very little protection and will be surprised at the prowess of Durock.
Obviously I disagree on the knowledge thing, that will be a judgement call on the voters. And yes, his armor could withstand Durok for a while, but it probably wouldn't even be needed since Fitroy would end this quickly.

Winner- Trevor Fitzroy

Ahura Mazda

11-12-2006, 11:24 AM

Rebuttal

First let's get the story of his death straight. Yes Bishop held him while his ownn portal closed on him. What you didn't say was everything leading up to that. Bishop way almost dead laying on the floor when Shard switched sides, turned into energy, and allowed Bishop to absorb her so he could shoot Fitroy in the back and then hold him for a second so the portal closed on him.

The reason Bishop beat him was simply for the fact that he didn't see Shard turning on him.

Bishop was not frozen in time then to be able to do that. So if trevor is that powerful why did he not freeze everyone in place...hmm maybe because he could not do so

As for not being able to freez Durok, why couldn't he? Just because he is a magical Asgardian creature? Does this magical creature exist in the time stream? Yes, and that is what he affects. It shouldn't matter what they are made of as long as they are actually in the time stream.

Well first we do not know how Durok can be affected given he his a Norse creature out of normal time. Durok was abondonned at the end of time by the Silver Surfer and found a way back to battle Thor during Ragnorak therefore it is not certain how time affects him.

Of course, that is assuming that Fitzroy can do all you say. Given he was defeated, either he was not willing to use his powers or more probably he was not able to. Fitzroy cannot simply freeze everyone in his presence which is certain given his defeat.

No, his ego would not let him think that. His armory is powerful, but even sothen he would use it for defensive puporses. Why the hell would he go an dduke it out with a giant Golem creature. Even if he didn't have any knowledge of Durok (I'll adress this part in a little bit) one look at him and you know what he is. He's a bruiser. Why on earth would Fitzroy decide to not do what he's best at (draining life, freezing in time, etc.) and fight instead? That makes absolutely no sense.

First of all how would he know the extent of his powers. He would not. I am not suggesting he would not do what he is best at just that he may not be as good at it as you suggest. Because listenning to you this guy should be able to defeat Galactus.

He's never been shown to whistle either, but I bet he can. Just because he has never been shown doesn't mean he instantly can't. WHat he is doing is actually draining life-force from beings. Now unless you say that Durok doesn't have a life-force, he should be able to do it. And remember, humans and mutants aren't the same genetically. If he can do it on two different genetic beings, why couldn't he do it on a third type?

A mutant is very close to a Human. An asgardian is something wholly different and then a Golem magical creature is again something completely different. He does not have a soul which maybe what Durok drains at the end. I think it is debatable whether he can do what you suggest plus even if he has the ability and that is a big if, the process is not instantaneous nor easy. And that is certain.

Once again, he would freeze Durok. Even if he didn't freeze him (which he would) he can open more than one portal at once. What the hell is Durok gonna do when he opens portals on every side of him and above him?

Let me ask you this if he can simply freeze anone why did he not freeze Bishop and others. Why was he defeated? If you can freeze everyone instantaneously then you don't risk losing a battle against second tier (power wise) heroes.

Once again, they weren't just knocked out by the blasts. They both had long hard fights with teh guy and were worn down by both his blasts and his fists. Yes, he ended it on a blast, but you make it sound like it was after 2 of them. You also have to remember that both Thor and SS went and actually fought him in hand-to-hand combat, Fitzroy won't do that. His armor will protect him from his blasts long enough to freeze/drain his life/throw him into a portal.

First off each blow and blast stunned them and true they were not knocked out instantaneously but they were considerably more durable then Fitzroy with his armour.

Once again, Shard turned on him, that's why he lost. He had beaten Bishop, he was actaully in the process of becoming Time itself (something so big that even the Watcher came down to watch). Not to mention is the fact that even though he did lay a firm beating on everyone, he was actually weaker then because he was actually using his own energy to power his entire fortress. Guess what, that weakens a guy. In this match, he would be at full power.

Yes he had his fortress but one of the reasons he was able to INITIALLY defeat Bishop was that he had allies and robots in that castle who fought Bishop. He will have no such help here.

Durok would put Fitzroy away like the impacable creature Durok is.

Ahura Mazda

11-12-2006, 11:33 AM

Not nearly as much as his fists hurt the SS. His blasts are the weaker part of his arsenal, he just used them to finish them off. While they are still strong, his armor can withstand them long enough to actually finish the fight.

On what are you basing the opinion that the blasts are the weaker part of his arsenal?

I still think he could get info, and I doubt I could change your mind. I think this is one of those things where it will be up to the voters to decide if he could or couldn't.

Wel given apart he is from the future, I have not heard any arguments that would justify what you say. I will leave it to the voters as that is your wish.

I might be wrong on this, but I thought that we didn't actaulyl see the entire battle of him and Thor. I htought it was more a we see the beginning, and then SS shows up and Thor is knocked out. While he did beat him, we don't know how much time transpired, it could have been hours.

That is true we do not know how long it took. It did happen mostly off panel but I can assume it took very little as SS heeding the call did not atke very long wjhat seemed to be less then an hour.

For the last time (hopefully) HE WAS NOT USING HIS POWERS WHEN BISHOP KILLED HIM. He had beaten Bishop to near death, then he turned his back to him to go into his own portal. That is when Shard turned on Fitzroy and helped Bishop by turnign herself into energy he could absorb. Bishop then got up and just held Fitzroy for a second while his portal closed on him only halfway in. He also, wasn't at full power during any of it because he was using his own energy to power his entire fortress.

I get that but my question is why did he not keep him frozen in time as he should of been able to, according to you

Yeah, except that he would have actually succeeded in becoming Time itself if Shard hadn't betrayed him at the last second. He was defeated by being betrayed, NOT BY BRUTE FORCE. Shame on him for trusting someone I guess, but that point is moot in this battle.

Yes if he had succeeded he would have been very powerful but he FAILED...

Obviously I disagree on the knowledge thing, that will be a judgement call on the voters. And yes, his armor could withstand Durok for a while, but it probably wouldn't even be needed since Fitroy would end this quickly.

As you say that is a judgement call for the voters as is the durability of the armour. I beleive it would not hold up very well and you defend it will. I do not have hard figures on the armour and unless you do I will leave it to voters to decide.

Winner - Durok

wiegeabo

11-12-2006, 03:29 PM

Magik vs Black Panther

I figure it's more likely that Magik could find information on Black Panther than the other way around. But I doubt either of them will be able to find out very many details about the other's powers.

Magik's biggest disadvantage i that her Soulsword will not do any damage to T'Challa's body since it is not supernatural in nature. But since he does not know this, Black Panther will still react to the sword as he would any normal sword. Evading attacks and relying on his armor to protect him form the metal. Illyana can use this to her advantage, forcing T'Challa to defend himself.

But just because her sword won't hurt T'Challa doesn't it won't be an effective weapon. She can still use it to deflect and parry the Panther's attacks. And since both are well trained fighters, it will be something to watch.

But this isn't just going to be a battle of weapons and fighting skills. Magik's name isn't just for show. She's the Sorceress Supreme in Limbo. And, while her powers are diminished in our realm, she still has access to a variety of white and black magics.

Illyana can use her teleportation discs to stay one step ahead of the Panther, and even surprise him. She might even be able to teleport T'Challa into Limbo and leave him trapped there, ending the fight. And Magik can use her magic on T'Challa. She probably has a wide variety of spells she could cast for various effects, like slowing him down, or freezing him in place. Putting him to sleep, or just hitting him with energy blasts. Since there in Avalon, Illyana could probably find a number of different magical artifacts to amplify and/or modify her powers, giving her even more abilities and a wider variety of attacks.

And Magik still has her time travel wildcard. If she ever gets into a bad situation, she can take herslef back in time a few seconds, or even minutes, and change her tactics. In this way, she can use what T'Challa already did against him, in effect 'predicting' what he will do next.

The Black Panther is not someone to be messed with, normally. But this is no normal situation. I have no doubt T'Challa will make a fight out of this, but I think Illyana has too many resources available to her, especially in this location.

Magik wins

Harlekin

11-12-2006, 03:44 PM

REBUTTAL: Black Panther vs Magik

I figure it's more likely that Magik could find information on Black Panther than the other way around. But I doubt either of them will be able to find out very many details about the other's powers.
Considering the fact that it's been shown that preparation and information gathering is pretty much everything the Black Panther is about when he's not ruling his country, I'd wager there's a bigger chance of him finding info than the other way around. Heck, his Kimoyo card would allow him to tap into a lot more resources than the other way around.

Magik's biggest disadvantage i that her Soulsword will not do any damage to T'Challa's body since it is not supernatural in nature. But since he does not know this, Black Panther will still react to the sword as he would any normal sword. Evading attacks and relying on his armor to protect him form the metal. Illyana can use this to her advantage, forcing T'Challa to defend himself.
Definitely, although a case can be made for him learning about the Soulsword, but even I can think that would be taking it too far. This is definately a psychological advantage that Magik has.

But just because her sword won't hurt T'Challa doesn't it won't be an effective weapon. She can still use it to deflect and parry the Panther's attacks. And since both are well trained fighters, it will be something to watch.
But the Panther is a greatly superior combatant than Magik. She can fight well, he can fight good. I don't see her standing up to the likes of Captain America or Iron Fist and lasting more than a few seconds. The Panther really only needs to connect once or twice to put her down.

Illyana can use her teleportation discs to stay one step ahead of the Panther, and even surprise him. She might even be able to teleport T'Challa into Limbo and leave him trapped there, ending the fight. And Magik can use her magic on T'Challa. She probably has a wide variety of spells she could cast for various effects, like slowing him down, or freezing him in place. Putting him to sleep, or just hitting him with energy blasts. Since there in Avalon, Illyana could probably find a number of different magical artifacts to amplify and/or modify her powers, giving her even more abilities and a wider variety of attacks.
Except the Panther has a wide variety of resources at his disposal, mystical as well that will counteract these acts. Secondly, from what I've read of Magik, her first instinct is still to barge in with the sword rather than try and use her spells to take down her opponents. Thirdly, she's going to have to find T'Challa, something that will probably be a lot easier for the Panther, since he's incredibly stealthy. He can ward off a detection spell and use his technology to home in on her.

And Magik still has her time travel wildcard. If she ever gets into a bad situation, she can take herslef back in time a few seconds, or even minutes, and change her tactics. In this way, she can use what T'Challa already did against him, in effect 'predicting' what he will do next.
Similarly, the Panther could use King Solomon's frogs, but that'd be a highly unconventional method of combat, and this tactic is one that I've never seen Magik use with any frequency.

The Black Panther is not someone to be messed with, normally. But this is no normal situation. I have no doubt T'Challa will make a fight out of this, but I think Illyana has too many resources available to her, especially in this location.
Except the Panther will be looking for those same resources and not even give Magik a chance to employ them. She's good, real good, but the Panther's better, and although it'd be a toughie, he would take her down more times than not.

WINNER=BLACK PANTHER

wiegeabo

11-12-2006, 04:18 PM

Thunderbird vs Radioactive Man

In this rematch, we can be pretty sure that sure that both characters now know everything they need to know about the other. Radioactive Man can't let Thunderbird get close enough to use his maxed out power against him, and John can't attack Lu without somekind of protection against the radation without somekind of surprise attack. So this is going to come down to location.

Initially, the location doesn't look good for Thunderbird. Last time, he had plenty of ways to block Radiation Man's attacks while still getting close enough to fight him. There's not that kind of advantage here. Open areas benefit Lu, and even tight areas like a castle wouldn't likely block the radiation unless they happen to have some kind of energy dampening protective spells or be made of dampening materials. (Although, if they do have these properties, Thunderbird can beat Lu in a similar way he fought him last time.)

The one thing Thunderbird does have going for him is that both characters appear in different areas, giving John time to put together a plan. Since the area is populated, John will know that one of Lu's tactics will be to attack the people to draw him out. So John will try to warn the people, describing Lu's powers and the dangers he represents.

A number of people may flee, while others bravely decide to stay and fight alongside John. But they are on Otherworld. And, undoubtedly, there will be somekind of protective objects in the land. The people will either have this object and give it to John, or they will know where to find it and send him on a quest. And, once protected, Thunderbird can safely take on Lu and take him out of the fight.

The point of the story is that Lu is alone in this battle, while John can bring all the inhabitants of Otherworld on his side. And those people will either bring protective magics or magical objects into the fight, or protect John with those magics and objects so he can fight Lu himself.

There is strength in numbers, and even if they only play a supporting role, a hero like John can bring those numbers into the fight.

Thunderbird wins.

hippy fascist

11-12-2006, 04:28 PM

wiegeabo

11-12-2006, 04:58 PM

Way too much speculation, very few actual statements of fact...

Lu's going to wait for john to show up, the people won't cause much problem to a guy who controls the power of a few hundred atomic bombs. Magic won't stop radiation. This one will be over quick

Once again i will say, the more people thunderbird brings, the easier for Lu to spread radiation poisoning. It'll also give lu plenty of targets to put in peril to keep john occupied. This just gives john more to worry about. Lu's got this fight locked up.

We used up all the old facts in the last match. Pretty much all we've got left is speculation on how the location will effect the battle.

But I can come up with a few more facts to throw out there: We're in a land full of magic and magical objects; neither of our characters will be able to utilize that magic alone, or even initially realize the land is full of magical power; Radiation Man will likely kill any civilains before getting their help in an attempt to throw John of his game, whereas John would try to help protect the people and end up getting help in return; every person Lu kills is just going to fuel John with anger and make him stronger and harder to put down.

And you keep describing radiation as if it's some special thing that can't be stopped. That's wrong. All radiation is is energy. That's a fact. It just happens to be of a shorter wavelength and higher energy level which gives it the ability to penetrate deeper into matter before it is stopped/absorbed. But it still can be blocked, absorbed, or redirected like any other form of energy. And magic/magical objects protect users from energy attacks all the time, so if John gets hold of any, Lu effectiveness becomes minimal.

And I still argue that Thunderbird has enough power, and tough enough hide, to resist Lu's attacks for a long time. Again I point to the Galactus fight. I know you like to say it was a weakened Galactus that anybody could beat. But if that is true, why did the entire Skrull fleet occupying Earth not fight him? They had technology far better than what Reed Richards came up with to fight Glactus. The answer: you don't fight Galactus, no matter how weak he is, because he can still wipe you out. A weak Galacuts was once taken down by an energy blast from a fully-powered Thanos, and he only went down for probably 30 seconds. And that was Thanos! John was able to punch his way into Galactus and still survived the resulting blast of energy (far more than Lu will be capable of). So I still think Thunderbird can bring Lu down with just fully 'hulked out' brute force. And since John's going to have the entire population of Otherworld itself on his side, it should be more than enough to handle Lu.

Thunderbird wins

hippy fascist

11-12-2006, 05:09 PM

Edit: Double Post

hippy fascist

11-12-2006, 05:23 PM

We used up all the old facts in the last match. Pretty much all we've got left is speculation on how the location will effect the battle.

But I can come up with a few more facts to throw out there: We're in a land full of magic and magical objects; neither of our characters will be able to utilize that magic alone, or even initially realize the land is full of magical power; Radiation Man will likely kill any civilains before getting their help in an attempt to throw John of his game, whereas John would try to help protect the people and end up getting help in return; every person Lu kills is just going to fuel John with anger and make him stronger and harder to put down.

And you keep describing radiation as if it's some special thing that can't be stopped. That's wrong. All radiation is is energy. That's a fact. It just happens to be of a shorter wavelength and higher energy level which gives it the ability to penetrate deeper into matter before it is stopped/absorbed. But it still can be blocked, absorbed, or redirected like any other form of energy. And magic/magical objects protect users from energy attacks all the time, so if John gets hold of any, Lu effectiveness becomes minimal.

And I still argue that Thunderbird has enough power, and tough enough hide, to resist Lu's attacks for a long time. Again I point to the Galactus fight. I know you like to say it was a weakened Galactus that anybody could beat. But if that is true, why did the entire Skrull fleet occupying Earth not fight him? They had technology far better than what Reed Richards came up with to fight Glactus. The answer: you don't fight Galactus, no matter how weak he is, because he can still wipe you out. A weak Galacuts was once taken down by an energy blast from a fully-powered Thanos, and he only went down for probably 30 seconds. And that was Thanos! John was able to punch his way into Galactus and still survived the resulting blast of energy (far more than Lu will be capable of). So I still think Thunderbird can bring Lu down with just fully 'hulked out' brute force. And since John's going to have the entire population of Otherworld itself on his side, it should be more than enough to handle Lu.

Thunderbird wins

Two things,

1. Ruling from the Judges: people in the area, I always viewed them like terrain, cowering and generally scared observers not an army to be fought over..

2. As said before, john can't hulk up, he can't risk it, especially if he's bringing these people with him. He's at low powered status so he'll go down easy!

The fact that you feel the need to bring them into the fight just proves how scared of Lu you are. One on one he could take john 9 times out of 10. He could use the people as a giant aplifier if you will for his powers, firing off blasts of radiation into the crowd anyway which is both going to distract and hurt john.

Lu will dominate this fight, he's taken on the avengers, thor, namor and many other threats more dangerous than John in the past. To label john a strategist is ridiculous, if he were an rpg character he'd be the tank. He is there to hit things, not to forge battle plans.

Lu on the other hand is a contemporary of reed richards and hank pym. He's a great thinker and has the physical skills to back it up. He recently *****ed hyperion who is significantly stronger that John. Lu will win this with ease, john is just outclassed. :o

WINNER:RADIOACTIVE MAN!

wiegeabo

11-12-2006, 06:44 PM

Two things,

1. Ruling from the Judges: people in the area, I always viewed them like terrain, cowering and generally scared observers not an army to be fought over..

2. As said before, john can't hulk up, he can't risk it, especially if he's bringing these people with him. He's at low powered status so he'll go down easy!

The fact that you feel the need to bring them into the fight just proves how scared of Lu you are. One on one he could take john 9 times out of 10. He could use the people as a giant aplifier if you will for his powers, firing off blasts of radiation into the crowd anyway which is both going to distract and hurt john.

Lu will dominate this fight, he's taken on the avengers, thor, namor and many other threats more dangerous than John in the past. To label john a strategist is ridiculous, if he were an rpg character he'd be the tank. He is there to hit things, not to forge battle plans.

Lu on the other hand is a contemporary of reed richards and hank pym. He's a great thinker and has the physical skills to back it up. He recently *****ed hyperion who is significantly stronger that John. Lu will win this with ease, john is just outclassed. :o

WINNER:RADIOACTIVE MAN!

On the contrary, John wouldn't bring the people into the fight, and he's not a brute idiot.

John's first instinct would be to protect the innocents because they're innocents. So, being the hero, he'd describe to the people the danger Lu represents to convince them to get out of harm's way. But, as typically happens in these situations, many will flee while some will choose to stay and fight for their homes. The difference this time is that, if they can get John somekind of magical protection, they don't need to stay. John can go into battle alone with no worries about going all out with his powers and no need to fear the radiation. The characters are allowed to use the resources of the location (that's why we change up locations), and the people in Otherworld are a valid resource.

And John may not be a brilliant strategiest, but he's no fool. He was War afterall, and he knows how to fight smart. And he won't underestimate Lu. He'll know that Lu will use the people as a trap, and use that to convince the people to flee (or help if they refuse to run). And any injuries to the populace will just fuel Thunderbird, making him an unstoppable machine.

I still say, if none of the populace are involved, John's got enough raw power when completely letting loose to take on Lu. Especially if he gets the drop on him and takes him by surprise (which he can set up before exploding with rage), avoiding most of Lu's attack before the battle truly starts. And god help Lu if John finds out anyone's been hurt of killed because I don't think anything will stop him.

Thunderbird wins

kytrigger

11-12-2006, 10:21 PM

Rebuttal

Bishop was not frozen in time then to be able to do that. So if trevor is that powerful why did he not freeze everyone in place...hmm maybe because he could not do so

Or maybe it was becasue Fitzroy had a personal vendetta against Bishop. Taht is why he constantly torured him and then at the end decided to actually beat him physically. It's because he hated the man. As for not freezing him in time, why would he? Bishop was powerless and couldn't do a thing to stop Fitzroy. The only reason he was still alive was because Fitzroy wanted him to actaully see him winning. Then, when Fitzroy's back was turned, Shard betrayed him and allowed Bishop tog get his power back, surprise Fitzroy for second and his portal closed on himself.

He didn't freeze him early on because of his personal vendetta with Bishop. And he didn't freeze him at the end, because he wanted Bishop to see what he was doing and because Bishpo was powerless to stop him. He didn't freeze him because he didn't need to.

Now while one can argue against his brash decisions of not freezing Bishop due to a personal vendetta, he would not have the same ill feelings against Durok, and would be more than happy to freeze him.

Well first we do not know how Durok can be affected given he his a Norse creature out of normal time. Durok was abondonned at the end of time by the Silver Surfer and found a way back to battle Thor during Ragnorak therefore it is not certain how time affects him.
I'm pretty sure that the reason he found a way back was because Loki retrieved him to fight in Ragnarok. Durok didn't really do anything, Loki went and got him.

As for the time thing. Asgardians and gods aren't in a differnt time themselves. They live for hundreds of years, but time isn't any different for them.

Of course, that is assuming that Fitzroy can do all you say. Given he was defeated, either he was not willing to use his powers or more probably he was not able to. Fitzroy cannot simply freeze everyone in his presence which is certain given his defeat.

No, he cannot freeze every single person, but he doesn't need to, he only needs to freeze one. And I stated already why he didn't freeze Bishop and destroy him, so I won't repeat it.

First of all how would he know the extent of his powers. He would not. I am not suggesting he would not do what he is best at just that he may not be as good at it as you suggest. Because listenning to you this guy should be able to defeat Galactus. And listening to you, Durok would defeat Beyonder, and destroy everything in existence with his concussive blasts. And while Fitzroy wouldn't stand a chance against Galactus, Durok is definately not in Galactus' level.

A mutant is very close to a Human. An asgardian is something wholly different and then a Golem magical creature is again something completely different. He does not have a soul which maybe what Durok drains at the end. I think it is debatable whether he can do what you suggest plus even if he has the ability and that is a big if, the process is not instantaneous nor easy. And that is certain.

Well, I disagree that mutants and humans are very very similar. I mean just because anyone can drain one, doesn't mean they should necissarily be able to drain the other.

Now, that said, I will grant you that Durok might be a differnt case. Not because he's from Asgard, but because he was created via magic. LIke you said he doesn't have a soul (i guess, I actually don't know if he does or not) and that MAY be where he draws his energy from, or it could be form somewhere else. Fitzroy might be able to draw the energy from Durok, or he might not. Or it could be a mix and he might drain him, but it would be much slower than a human or mutant. But I do believe that he could still drain most of the inhabitants of Otherworld.

Let me ask you this if he can simply freeze anone why did he not freeze Bishop and others. Why was he defeated? If you can freeze everyone instantaneously then you don't risk losing a battle against second tier (power wise) heroes.

I already answered this in the begginning. Let me also ad though that he was making portals, AND powering his entire fortress with his power. While he definately can freeze someone, I am not saying it's the easiest thing in the world for him, but since he will be at full power, he could definately freeze him now.

First off each blow and blast stunned them and true they were not knocked out instantaneously but they were considerably more durable then Fitzroy with his armour. and they also stood there trading blows with Durok letting him get his beatings in. Fitroy won't do that, he'll be on the move.

Yes he had his fortress but one of the reasons he was able to INITIALLY defeat Bishop was that he had allies and robots in that castle who fought Bishop. He will have no such help here.luckily for Fitzroy, he won't need it. ANd that's not the reason Fitzroy had the fortress, to battle Bishop. He was master of earth. He had the fortress and guards to patrol over all of earth. And he didn't need them to defeat Bishop/ He used Shard as bait, and when he got her, HE beat Bishop, then he torured him, then Bishop got free and Fitzroy beat him again.

Durok would put Fitzroy away like the impacable creature Durok is.

ok...time out from the debate, but I have to point out that you used the word "impacable" to describe Durok. First off, bonus points for using a good word :woot: .

Second, the dictionary describes impacable as: "Not to be appeased or quieted." I just find it funny since Durok is mute.

OK, now back to the debate...

I disagree, Durok is good at what he does, but what he does is limited. While Fitzroy might not have as much brute power, he definately trumps Durok in other ways with his power.

Winner- Trevor Fitzroy

kytrigger

11-12-2006, 10:32 PM

Rebuttal

On what are you basing the opinion that the blasts are the weaker part of his arsenal?It's conjecture on my part, but I assumed it was so since the majority of his feats have been done using his hands. Mainly things like breaking the Silver Surfer's board (even though he did put it right back together) were done with his hands.

Wel given apart he is from the future, I have not heard any arguments that would justify what you say. I will leave it to the voters as that is your wish. My arguments was that since he ruled the future, he would have access to any old data. As for not knowing who Durok is, he did participate in teh Ragnarok, which was a pretty well known event I thought. I'm sure this won't convicne you so it will be left up to the voters.

That is true we do not know how long it took. It did happen mostly off panel but I can assume it took very little as SS heeding the call did not atke very long wjhat seemed to be less then an hour.

Yeah, it's hard to say how ong it actaulyl took (once SS left, he would be quick, but Balder still had to clim Everest to get his attention and then deal with some stuff first) I'm sure it didn't take days or wnything, but I always just guessed it was the average length of a battle between brutes like those two.

I get that but my question is why did he not keep him frozen in time as he should of been able to, according to you

He didn't do it because he hated Bishop and wanted to make it personal. ( I said more last time so I won't go into more details)

Yes if he had succeeded he would have been very powerful but he FAILED...

Of curse he failed. Him becoming time would have most liekyl destroyed the Marvel Universe, not somethign that they are going to print in a Bishop comic. The real question is why did he fail? That's because he got greedy with wanting Bishop to watch, and because he didn't see Shard betraying him.

As you say that is a judgement call for the voters as is the durability of the armour. I beleive it would not hold up very well and you defend it will. I do not have hard figures on the armour and unless you do I will leave it to voters to decide.
The best figures I have on it are that it has been destroyed by all of X-Force once and by the X-Men once. Each time he has built a new one that is much mroe powerful though (although I can't give figures on how powerful). Also, both the tiems he was defeated with his armor was before he had his power upgrade (he could only drain people and make one portal back then). Like you said, this isn't hard enough evidence to really sway you I assume so it will be left up to the voters.

Winner- Trevor Fitzroy

Ahura Mazda

11-13-2006, 02:13 AM

Yet another Rebuttal

It's conjecture on my part, but I assumed it was so since the majority of his feats have been done using his hands. Mainly things like breaking the Silver Surfer's board (even though he did put it right back together) were done with his hands.

Therefore his energy powers could be as powerful as his strength which was already outstanding.

My arguments was that since he ruled the future, he would have access to any old data. As for not knowing who Durok is, he did participate in teh Ragnarok, which was a pretty well known event I thought. I'm sure this won't convicne you so it will be left up to the voters.

Ragnorak was a well known event to Asgardians and other celestial beings. To Earthlings it is a part of mythology and not something which was historically recorded. Just to give you an example no one really knows of Rune Thor.....outside of people who have read the comic in the real world....ours.

Yeah, it's hard to say how ong it actaulyl took (once SS left, he would be quick, but Balder still had to clim Everest to get his attention and then deal with some stuff first) I'm sure it didn't take days or wnything, but I always just guessed it was the average length of a battle between brutes like those two.

And what is te average length..this happenned in a few panels and Balder getting to the top of Mount Everest was a quick feat....

He didn't do it because he hated Bishop and wanted to make it personal. ( I said more last time so I won't go into more details)

So he was being stupid or overconfident then ...that is your line of discussion and you put forward that here he would not be here because he is totally different given you are writing this ;)

Of curse he failed. Him becoming time would have most liekyl destroyed the Marvel Universe, not somethign that they are going to print in a Bishop comic. The real question is why did he fail? That's because he got greedy with wanting Bishop to watch, and because he didn't see Shard betraying him.

I do not think it was quite that level or you would have seen entities like eternity or the LT or others of that sort. Only the Watcher came to see meaning it was significant, but not a threat to the whole Universe.

With regard the battle against Bishop, again as you state, he got overconfidant.

The best figures I have on it are that it has been destroyed by all of X-Force once and by the X-Men once. Each time he has built a new one that is much mroe powerful though (although I can't give figures on how powerful). Also, both the tiems he was defeated with his armor was before he had his power upgrade (he could only drain people and make one portal back then). Like you said, this isn't hard enough evidence to really sway you I assume so it will be left up to the voters.

Of course, Trever never faced a force of nature like Durok. Trevor is clearly not on the same power level as Thor or the Silver Surfer. And therefore in a physical battle, there can only be one result. Durok would live up to his name and demolish Trevor.

For Trevor to win, he would have to be able to instantaneously freeze and then drain the life force or teleport Durok to another dimension. It is not clear whether he can drain Durok which in essence is a magical Asgardian golem. Also, Trevor cannot instantaneously freeze a creature like Durok. His powers do not work that well. And given the difference in physical prowess it is likely that Durok would make short work of Trevor completely destroying his armour and him.

Winner - Durok

Ahura Mazda

11-13-2006, 03:35 AM

Sorry but did not see this post

Or maybe it was becasue Fitzroy had a personal vendetta against Bishop. Taht is why he constantly torured him and then at the end decided to actually beat him physically. It's because he hated the man. As for not freezing him in time, why would he? Bishop was powerless and couldn't do a thing to stop Fitzroy. The only reason he was still alive was because Fitzroy wanted him to actaully see him winning. Then, when Fitzroy's back was turned, Shard betrayed him and allowed Bishop tog get his power back, surprise Fitzroy for second and his portal closed on himself.

The thing is Bishop was defeated in a battle, he was not simply frozen, which puts Trevor's intelligence in question or at least his ability to use his powers. Of course, I know you do not agree on this but lets at least agree Durok is considerably more powerful then Bishop.

He didn't freeze him early on because of his personal vendetta with Bishop. And he didn't freeze him at the end, because he wanted Bishop to see what he was doing and because Bishpo was powerless to stop him. He didn't freeze him because he didn't need to.

So what heroes did he freeze? And how long did it take him to do so?

Now while one can argue against his brash decisions of not freezing Bishop due to a personal vendetta, he would not have the same ill feelings against Durok, and would be more than happy to freeze him.

I revert back to my statement above and await your response.

I'm pretty sure that the reason he found a way back was because Loki retrieved him to fight in Ragnarok. Durok didn't really do anything, Loki went and got him.

That is posible but the only scenario given we have no on paper explanation. But I do agree that the one you say is probable.

As for the time thing. Asgardians and gods aren't in a differnt time themselves. They live for hundreds of years, but time isn't any different for them.

Well Durok is again a magical Golem so who knows what effect Trevor's time powers could have on him...

No, he cannot freeze every single person, but he doesn't need to, he only needs to freeze one. And I stated already why he didn't freeze Bishop and destroy him, so I won't repeat it.

Yes but it is not an instantaneous freeze even if could or can do it. It takes some time and Durok would need very little to make short work of Trevor.

And listening to you, Durok would defeat Beyonder, and destroy everything in existence with his concussive blasts. And while Fitzroy wouldn't stand a chance against Galactus, Durok is definately not in Galactus' level.

No not the Beyonder, but at least Thor and the Silver Surfer ;)

Well, I disagree that mutants and humans are very very similar. I mean just because anyone can drain one, doesn't mean they should necissarily be able to drain the other.

You know humans share more then 95% of the same genes with chimpanzees, right. Therefore as the premise is that mutants are the next link in the evolutionary chain it is highly likely that they would be very similar.

Now, that said, I will grant you that Durok might be a differnt case. Not because he's from Asgard, but because he was created via magic. LIke you said he doesn't have a soul (i guess, I actually don't know if he does or not) and that MAY be where he draws his energy from, or it could be form somewhere else. Fitzroy might be able to draw the energy from Durok, or he might not. Or it could be a mix and he might drain him, but it would be much slower than a human or mutant. But I do believe that he could still drain most of the inhabitants of Otherworld.

There are many suppositions you need to make for Trevor to win this one. And you cannot prove any of them against a creature like Durok. I myself am making the supposition that Durok can resist Trevor just enough time to put him away which given his battle with the Thunder God Thor and Cosmic Wielding Silver Surfer, is highly possible. But at the end of the day it is to writers to decide and our arguments (and am talking for the both of us, if you permit me) are getting stale or at least repetitive.

I already answered this in the begginning. Let me also ad though that he was making portals, AND powering his entire fortress with his power. While he definately can freeze someone, I am not saying it's the easiest thing in the world for him, but since he will be at full power, he could definately freeze him now.

As you say it is not an easy thing and therefore he would have to withstand the incredible force that is Durok.

and they also stood there trading blows with Durok letting him get his beatings in. Fitroy won't do that, he'll be on the move.

I beg to differ, the Silver Surfer did not just stand there. Durok is also very fast, much faster then Trevor. He could not move fast enough.

luckily for Fitzroy, he won't need it. ANd that's not the reason Fitzroy had the fortress, to battle Bishop. He was master of earth. He had the fortress and guards to patrol over all of earth. And he didn't need them to defeat Bishop/ He used Shard as bait, and when he got her, HE beat Bishop, then he torured him, then Bishop got free and Fitzroy beat him again.

Yes but this was Bishop not Durok the Demolisher, bane of both Thor and the Silver Surfer

ok...time out from the debate, but I have to point out that you used the word "impacable" to describe Durok. First off, bonus points for using a good word :woot: .

Second, the dictionary describes impacable as: "Not to be appeased or quieted." I just find it funny since Durok is mute.

Yes it is apparent that the quieted is only in the figurative sense and not literal ;)

OK, now back to the debate...

I disagree, Durok is good at what he does, but what he does is limited. While Fitzroy might not have as much brute power, he definately trumps Durok in other ways with his power.

Well I disagree with you...was that any surprise ;). In any case, it will be up to the voters to decide whether a Bishop villain can defeat a Thor and Silver Surfer villain.

I am willing to let it go at this point to the voting ballot.

kytrigger

11-13-2006, 03:41 PM

Well Durok is again a magical Golem so who knows what effect Trevor's time powers could have on him...
This is actually the only part I'll rebutt against any more since everything else (like you said) would just be the both of us repeating ourselves more and more.

I'll just say that since teh Silver Surfer abandoned Durok in the future, that he is obviously vulnerable to time ( I don't really know how to put it). It proves he is in the time stream, and can be manipulated through the time stream, which is what Fitzroy's freezing power actaully does.

Well I disagree with you...was that any surprise ;). In any case, it will be up to the voters to decide whether a Bishop villain can defeat a Thor and Silver Surfer villain. I agree that our debate, while very good, is now just retreading the same ground over and over. We shall leave it up to the voters to see if an awesome X-Men villain can defeat a Thor villain. Either way, it's been one hell of a debate. :yay:

hippy fascist

11-13-2006, 06:57 PM

On the contrary, John wouldn't bring the people into the fight, and he's not a brute idiot.

John's first instinct would be to protect the innocents because they're innocents. So, being the hero, he'd describe to the people the danger Lu represents to convince them to get out of harm's way. But, as typically happens in these situations, many will flee while some will choose to stay and fight for their homes. The difference this time is that, if they can get John somekind of magical protection, they don't need to stay. John can go into battle alone with no worries about going all out with his powers and no need to fear the radiation. The characters are allowed to use the resources of the location (that's why we change up locations), and the people in Otherworld are a valid resource.

The fact that you need to seek out magical shields etc just once again proves quite how outclassed thunderbird is. What minimal magical protection he would be able to muster in the half an hour or so it's going to take for lu to rip from one area to another many people will die. John is not the kind of guy to stand around trying to gather forces while this is going on, he is an "action man". He'll see and hear the people dying horrible deaths and he will be compelled to run in and try to stop the carnage as soon as possible. He doesn't have several hours to set himself up once he arrives. You speak of speaches as if this were independence day or something. This is a straight scrap and it's going to get going quickly. Radioactive clearly has the power advantage since you feel the need to reach for magical enhancement. Since I have made, I feel, a pretty reasonable argument for this being impossible it's clear Lu is going to wipe the floor with thunderbird.

And John may not be a brilliant strategiest, but he's no fool. He was War afterall, and he knows how to fight smart. And he won't underestimate Lu. He'll know that Lu will use the people as a trap, and use that to convince the people to flee (or help if they refuse to run). And any injuries to the populace will just fuel Thunderbird, making him an unstoppable machine.

He's not irational or stupid but he is very compassionate. He's going to see people dying as Lu stampedes through the city and feel compelled to dash in and help (ironic given his heritage but he's going to be playing the cavalry in this engagement). What he will be running into is an area of extremely high background radiation which will slowly kill him. What it will do quite quickly however is weaken him to the point where he is like a child. Even someone as strong as thunderbird cannot fight this particular affliction. Add in to the fact that he'll be recieving a beatdown from a guy with upper hulk level strength, who will have blasted him with concentrated gamma radiation while he runs in to fight, and we see one dead thunderbird.

I still say, if none of the populace are involved, John's got enough raw power when completely letting loose to take on Lu. Especially if he gets the drop on him and takes him by surprise (which he can set up before exploding with rage), avoiding most of Lu's attack before the battle truly starts. And god help Lu if John finds out anyone's been hurt of killed because I don't think anything will stop him.

I say radioactive man held his own against a GOD. He has strength with no upper limit, can fire concentrated doses of gamma radiation and generate impenetrable shields whenever he gets tired and wants a break...

...and john can...hit things...which he won't even be doing at full power as he can't afford to hulk out and risk innocent lives.

This is how heroes always die, some mad villain makes them choose between their own lives and the lives of thousands of people. A true hero, which is what john is, would always give their life gladly.Christ both versions of John have made their exit doing it (one fighting galactus is in a coma, the other died in an explosion on a plane trying to save someone somewhere, can't remeber the exact reference...) John will make this sacrifice and be remembered in the anuls of history for it but make no mistake...JOHN...WILL...DIE

Add on to that the fact that if John could...in some ideal world... throw him a beating he has a habit of going all hiroshima after a big fight. And then reforming himself, which sadly is not something john can do...

Finally I want to make this clear, Lu will not sit and wait, he will cause panic, destruction and death. John will run in to help, he will not be able to risk hulking up for fear of hurting/killing people. He will die, probablywhilst propping up a falling pillar which was going to land on a small girl ala demogoblin. his hero character trait will betray him in the end and he will die.

WINNER:RADIOACTIVE MAN!

Ahura Mazda

11-14-2006, 05:35 AM

I'll just say that since teh Silver Surfer abandoned Durok in the future, that he is obviously vulnerable to time ( I don't really know how to put it). It proves he is in the time stream, and can be manipulated through the time stream, which is what Fitzroy's freezing power actaully does.

He is vulnerable to transportation not freezing. Freezing is a direct effect power not something which transports him to somewhere else. You know SS carried him on his surf board. He did not use his powers to put him in stasis.

I agree that our debate, while very good, is now just retreading the same ground over and over. We shall leave it up to the voters to see if an awesome X-Men villain can defeat a Thor villain. Either way, it's been one hell of a debate. :yay:

I am glad we agree on something. It has been a great debate. :up:

Voters can now decide between DUROK and Trevor ;)

WOLVERINE25TH

11-14-2006, 08:29 AM

IRON CLAD vs. HALF-LIFE

Okay, if this is a daytime fight, then it's already over 'cause Half-Life can't be alive in daylight.

Assuming it's night, Half-Life is able to absorb energy from people in order to keep him going and make him stronger. He's also like a zombie that won't die, able to put himself back together should he be damaged in any way. Since he has a lot of people to draw energy from, including Iron Clad, gonna be a hard fight, right?

Iron Clad has not only gone toe-to-toe with the Hulk, a foe they share, but he's also combat trained and experienced. Once IC starts to get weak near HL, he'll find a way to keep his distance, using objects to attack HL. No doubt the populace would scatter at the signs of the fight, so no worries there. Once IC discovers HL's regenerative capabilities, he goes all out to try and hurt the guy. Upon knocking pieces off and seeing how HL repairs himself, IC gets a plan and finds a way to knock HL apart. Before he can pull hismelf together, IC quickly grabs the parts and flings them as far as he can in several directions, then pulls back before he gets to weak. Then, it's just a matter of waiting for his victory to be announced (which would be sunrise) and the fight is over.

WINNER: IRON CLAD

Phaedrus45

11-14-2006, 01:51 PM

Captain Britain-Kelsey Leigh vs. Black Knight-Dane Whitman:

Both of these characters belong to Powderman, and it seems like he won't be participating, at least for a while. The voters will decide. Here are my quick thoughts.

Bio on Kelsey:

AbilitiesMagically bestowed superhuman physical attributes, Force fields and energy bolts derived from invulnerable 'Sword of Might'

Bio on Dane:

AbilitiesExpert swordsmanship, magic senses. Wields the Sword of Light and Shield of Night.

This match could go either way. Both should have information on each other and the location. One advantage for Dane is this:

AffiliationsAvengers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avengers_%28comics%29)
Defenders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defenders_%28comics%29) (associate member)
Ultraforce (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraforce_%28comics%29)
Excalibur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excalibur_%28comics%29)
Knights of Wundagore (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Knights_of_Wundagore&action=edit)
Pendragons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pendragons)
Heroes for Hire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroes_for_Hire)
Queen's Vengeance (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Queen%27s_Vengeance&action=edit)
King Richard's Army (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=King_Richard%27s_Army&action=edit)
Masters of Evil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masters_of_Evil)

Look at that list! That's a hell of a lot of experience. But, another one of Kelsey's bios state:

As the new Captain Britain, Kelsey wields the Sword of Might (http://www.marveldatabase.com/wiki/index.php/Sword_of_Might) which can project forcefields and magical energy blasts. She also chooses to use the sword in the form of a double-bladed staff. In her transformed state her strength, endurance and agility are increased, though not apparently to superhuman levels, and the scar on her face vanishes.

And, another:

Powers Super strength, reflexes, a level of invincibility and flight. The Sword Of Might, gives Kelsey the ability to form energy blasts or shields.

The Sword is really handy for Kelsey, providing a forcefield against danger. But, here is an explanation of Black Knight's weapons:

Paraphernalia When Dane Whitman touches his mystic pendant and invokes the name of Avalon, he conjures up his equipment and steed. The armor and weapons are extremely lightweight but supernaturally durable. His Shield of Night not only protects him from most attacks but also absorbs the energy of the forces directed against it. He can then release that stored energy in the form of power blasts from his blade, the Sword of Light. Strider can fly at great speeds and is even capable of travel underwater. While riding Strider, Dane is magically able to breathe regardless of his environment.

uuite a match-up. Also, don't forget Dane has resided in Otherworld before.

Winner = Draw (Let the voters decide)