Kid Buu versus Sun-Armor Superboy P. [Archive]

MSGohan

11-17-2006, 09:55 AM

Woohoo! Since my old Versus thread was a total flop I thought I'd start simple. This seems like a good match to me.......Both combatants are extremely powerful and dangerous. They are also prone to dangerous tantrums. They are the biggest threats to their respective universe so who wins in a all out brawl?
How in the world is this thread any different from a "Goku vs. Superman" one?!??!
How come you people rejected many of the other vs. threads that were created recently, but think that this a good one?
It's not that the fight in unfair that makes the thread a "stupid" one, but the fact that it is a vs. thread comparing to characters from 2 completly different worlds.
This thread is no better than "Kid Buu vs. The Hulk"...

you should read dbz manga volumes 41 and 42
Dude... If he does that, he might (and probably will) get the impression that Mr. Satan can take down Buu...

SSJ4_Mikael

11-17-2006, 09:57 AM

buu managed to break through reality as well when exiting the time chamber in dragonball while in the middle of a fight with gotenks...
Yeah, but ...
That was shin Boo, who's a lot more powerful then chibi Boo.
And he struggled to realese a blast powerful enough to temporely open up a gasp.

And he could plasmatize Boo, which would kill him.

Lobo

11-17-2006, 10:22 AM

you should read dbz manga volumes 41 and 42
I have :o, did you know that magic is useless against Superman Prime? or that superman 1 million has some of the powers of 5th dimensional imp?

November Rain

11-17-2006, 10:32 AM

Yeah, but ...
That was shin Boo, who's a lot more powerful then chibi Boo.
And he struggled to realese a blast powerful enough to temporely open up a gasp.

And he could plasmatize Boo, which would kill him.nah, kid buu was his most powerful incarnation, this has pretty much been shown...

he was messing around with goku in ssj 3 form just like how vegetto was messing around with buu fused with gotenks and goku (with piccollo also in the mix).

SSJ4_Mikael

11-17-2006, 10:55 AM

nah, kid buu was his most powerful incarnation, this has pretty much been shown...

he was messing around with goku in ssj 3 form just like how vegetto was messing around with buu fused with gotenks and goku (with piccollo also in the mix).
You're thinking about the anime, which's non canon, Shin Boo was more powerful:

Proof:
Gokou ´Don't! Even though he's back to normal, he's still far more powerful than us. (http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume42/Db42ch04/420412.gif)´
Shin Boo >> Gokou and Bejiita

Bejiita ´While SS3 at full powerf you can destroy him in an instant. (http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume42/Db42ch08/420813.gif)´

And I don't have to show that they didn't hesitate chibi Boo ... Or, do I?

Remember:
Chibi Boo + south Kaioshin --> Shin Boo
It was only the Daio Kaishin (Fat one, that turned him into fat Boo) that reducded Boo's power.

Sloth7d

11-17-2006, 03:48 PM

nah, kid buu was his most powerful incarnation, this has pretty much been shown...

This argument usually always leads us back to the who is stronger argument, SSJ3Goku or ChouGohan? Which is really ridiculous, because it couldn't be anymore clearer.

Ultra-Herald9

11-19-2006, 07:49 AM

This argument usually always leads us back to the who is stronger argument, SSJ3Goku or ChouGohan? Which is really ridiculous, because it couldn't be anymore clearer.

Gohan right??:huh:

Ultra-Herald9

11-19-2006, 07:51 AM

Obviously I believe that Superboy takes this one. He has shown extremely insane feats and is at silver age power levels but I'm not saying it would be easy for emoboy.

Jplaya2023

11-19-2006, 12:14 PM

Obviously I believe that Superboy takes this one. He has shown extremely insane feats and is at silver age power levels but I'm not saying it would be easy for emoboy.

what does feats have to do with actual combat?

CBG

11-19-2006, 12:23 PM

what does feats have to do with actual combat?

Depending on some feats, it show what you can do in relation to battle.

Sloth7d

11-19-2006, 09:03 PM

Gohan right??:huh:
Duh.

Ultra-Herald9

11-19-2006, 10:02 PM

Duh.

Yay! Do.....do I get candy?:ninja:

Sloth7d

11-19-2006, 10:06 PM

Hey, I'm a hype poster, not majinbuu.

Ultra-Herald9

11-21-2006, 04:18 AM

you should read dbz manga volumes 41 and 42

Just did. And I'm not really too impessed....:cwink:

November Rain

11-21-2006, 04:31 AM

This argument usually always leads us back to the who is stronger argument, SSJ3Goku or ChouGohan? Which is really ridiculous, because it couldn't be anymore clearer.I've always assumed Gohan started off stronger but over time goku managed to exceed his strength level. so throughout the saga, it's gohan but by the time it gets to the next relevant dbz movie (can't recall) goku manages to surpass him

Sloth7d

11-21-2006, 04:33 AM

I've always assumed Gohan started off stronger but over time goku managed to exceed his strength level. so throughout the saga, it's gohan but by the time it gets to the next relevant dbz movie (can't recall) goku manages to surpass him
During the last saga MysticGohan>SSJ3Goku. Any other suggestion is speculation.

November Rain

11-21-2006, 04:42 AM

You're thinking about the anime, which's non canon, Shin Boo was more powerful:

Proof:
Gokou ´Don't! Even though he's back to normal, he's still far more powerful than us. (http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume42/Db42ch04/420412.gif)´
Shin Boo >> Gokou and Bejiita

Bejiita ´While SS3 at full powerf you can destroy him in an instant. (http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume42/Db42ch08/420813.gif)´

And I don't have to show that they didn't hesitate chibi Boo ... Or, do I?

Remember:
Chibi Boo + south Kaioshin --> Shin Boo
It was only the Daio Kaishin (Fat one, that turned him into fat Boo) that reducded Boo's power.

in the history of dragonball z, i have never known for a villain to transform into a weaker incarnation of himself

isn't there a pic somewhere of goku thinking to himself while training gotenks that he could have taken Shin buu at any time without hesitation.

besides, if what you say is true, then it doesn't make sense that the joining of uub and fat buu in GT would cause the sort of power level we saw from Super UUb. he would be around shin buu's level and he wouldn't have stood up to bebi vegeta the way he did.

I mean why bother with a spirit bomb when all he had to do was use the dragonballs to wish him to full power and defeat chibi buu that way, i've always seen the sprit bomb as a last line of defence when physically there is nothing more that can be done.

although i can't dispute source material, I do wonder what the japanese version actually says, as well as toriyama's own interpretation of events.

I feel the animation does a better job of putting together a coherent story.

November Rain

11-21-2006, 04:44 AM

During the last saga MysticGohan>SSJ3Goku. Any other suggestion is speculation.I won't dispute that.

although power isn't everything, i still think goku could take him in a fight in ssj 3 form

Sloth7d

11-21-2006, 04:56 AM

in the history of dragonball z, i have never known for a villain to transform into a weaker incarnation of himself
Perfect Cell vomited #18 and turned into imperfect cell. This is no different.

besides, if what you say is true, then it doesn't make sense that the joining of uub and fat buu in GT would cause the sort of power level we saw from Super UUb. he would be around shin buu's level and he wouldn't have stood up to bebi vegeta the way he did.

Thats because Gt is non-canon and most of the powerlevels don't make sense there.
Ex=Uub not able to hurt super17 yet SSJ1Goku kicking him across the globe. And KabitoKai running from Mr.Popo and Dende. Also, SSJ4 Goku and SSJ4 Vegeta being pummeled by Shenron in a few hits yet their base forms can take like 100 more hits without dying or losing consciousness. Just to name a few.

I feel the animation does a better job of putting together a coherent story.
The anime is actually where most inconsistencies in the story come from. Ex= Piccon koing Cell with one hit, yet Goku could fight him on a even level. Goku and Vegeta fighting Buu inside buu on an even level. Kidbuu being stated to be stronger than GohanBuu, yet Goku was scared of him meanwhile Gohan pwned him easily. Gohan fighting Freeza on an even level. Yamcha, Tien, and Chaotzu making quick work of the Ginyuforce when Vegeta could barely touch them,ect.

Sloth7d

11-21-2006, 04:59 AM

I won't dispute that.

although power isn't everything, i still think goku could take him in a fight in ssj 3 form
Yeah right. Since when was the last time skill ever determined a fight in DBZ? Even SSJ2 Gohan beat Cell in like three hits despite Cell knowing everyones fighting style and signature move.

November Rain

11-21-2006, 05:15 AM

Yeah right. Since when was the last time skill ever determined a fight in DBZ? Even SSJ2 Gohan beat Cell in like three hits despite Cell knowing everyones fighting style and signature move.well truth be told, I would consider gohan's style to be somewhat of a hybrid of techniques unique to picollo and also goku at his fighting cell but that's an individual interpretation.

I also thought that gohan was defeated by dabura even though gohan was technically stronger., or am i mistaken?

spower levels have always played a large part but when they are relatively close like how i consider gohan and goku's to be in their relative stages, i feel skill and will power can manage to triumph.

Sloth7d

11-21-2006, 05:18 AM

well truth be told, I would consider gohan's style to be somewhat of a hybrid of techniques unique to picollo and also goku at his fighting cell but that's an individual interpretation.

I also thought that gohan was defeated by dabura even though gohan was technically stronger., or am i mistaken?

spower levels have always played a large part but when they are relatively close like how i consider gohan and goku's to be in their relative stages, i feel skill and will power can manage to triumph.
I agree with you on Goku and Cells fight, but Dabura was way stronger than Gohan. Vegeta even states that Dabura was toying with him and that Gohan was even weaker than his was when he faught Cell (due to lack of training.)

November Rain

11-21-2006, 05:23 AM

Perfect Cell vomited #18 and turned into imperfect cell. This is no different.

perhaps. My buu saga is the one i watched the least so it's the one i have the least info on, i'm not gonig to pretend to know it inside out. I just thought that kid buu's transformation was somewhat willingly done.

Thats because Gt is non-canon and most of the powerlevels don't make sense there.
Ex=Uub not able to hurt super17 yet SSJ1Goku kicking him across the globe. And KabitoKai running from Mr.Popo and Dende. Also, SSJ4 Goku and SSJ4 Vegeta being pummeled by Shenron in a few hits yet their base forms can take like 100 more hits without dying or losing consciousness. Just to name a few.but doesn't Gt exist in the manga format or is it purely anime?

The anime is actually where most inconsistencies in the story come from. Ex= Piccon koing Cell with one hit, yet Goku could fight him on a even level. Goku and Vegeta fighting Buu inside buu on an even level. Kidbuu being stated to be stronger than GohanBuu, yet Goku was scared of him meanwhile Gohan pwned him easily. Gohan fighting Freeza on an even level. Yamcha, Tien, and Chaotzu making quick work of the Ginyuforce when Vegeta could barely touch them,ect.I'll give you the first few but i would say that training in another outer realm other than earth makes one alot stronger than what would be achieved if just left on earth, Especially in the death realm.

Vegeta never got trained while he was dead and never managed to gain the incredibly boosts in power than the z fighters did, who managed to not only get through snakes way faster than goku himself but picollo managed to catch bubbles in like an instant, something goku took ages to do. Death training is hardcore.

thats the only point i can try to resolve, you have me on the rest though.

November Rain

11-21-2006, 05:25 AM

I agree with you on Goku and Cells fight, but Dabura was way stronger than Gohan. Vegeta even states that Dabura was toying with him and that Gohan was even weaker than his was when he faught Cell (due to lack of training.)fair enough.

thanks for clearing it up.

Sloth7d

11-21-2006, 05:38 AM

perhaps. My buu saga is the one i watched the least so it's the one i have the least info on, i'm not gonig to pretend to know it inside out. I just thought that kid buu's transformation was somewhat willingly done.[/quot]
No they ripped Fatbuu and the others out of him by force.

[quote]but doesn't Gt exist in the manga format or is it purely anime?
Nope, the original creator had nothing to do with it and its pure anime.

I'll give you the first few but i would say that training in another outer realm other than earth makes one alot stronger than what would be achieved if just left on earth, Especially in the death realm.

Vegeta never got trained while he was dead and never managed to gain the incredibly boosts in power than the z fighters did, who managed to not only get through snakes way faster than goku himself but picollo managed to catch bubbles in like an instant, something goku took ages to do. Death training is hardcore.

thats the only point i can try to resolve, you have me on the rest though.
I'm still sceptical on it though. Vegeta was not only stronger than Goku who trained in other world for almost a year, but had his power doubled twice due to near death experience and yet he still couldn't compete with Recoome. Infact Goku needed to use Kaio ken x3 to defeat Vegeta even after training in other world, yet Tien and co can defeat Recoome(a guy who's made childs play of vegeta when Vegeta was maybe 4 times stronger than how he was on earth) with a few hits. I can't debate on Berter and Jase though since their powerlevel and where they stand in strenth is unknown. And the green guy was pretty much weaker than Krillin or Gohan outside of his time freeze.

November Rain

11-21-2006, 07:39 AM

i didn't think goku trained for a year, but was dead for a year, by the time he actually reached king kai's house, he had spent many months attempting to reach snake's path. so the effectiveness of his outer world experience was limited due to the time spent in transit.

also the strength level of the person upon dying may have some effect on how much they could get from training on another planet, (like if goku had remained dead, he would have never reached ssj 3 levels, he managed to because he died so close to being super saiyan 2). as well as other factors such as peer pressure motivation which the z fighters had that goku didn't. If goku and picollo had trained together while both being dead, then the rate of productive increase would have risen considerably for both.

that's how i rationalise it.

oh and i thought goku used kai-o-ken times four to actually win. he used up to 2 in battle, 3 for the first part of his blast and 4 to topple vegeta.

Sloth7d

11-21-2006, 07:53 AM

yeah. Your right it was four. And thats adds more to the reason why I think it was bogus that they beat Recoome. Goku trained at King Kais for several weeks(we'll put it that way) and also used Kai ken to quadrupal his power and still barely defeated a Vegeta wh was 4 times weaker than he was on Namek. Tien and company had just gotten there by the time of I think when Goku was almost on Namek. By the time the Ginyu Force died they had been there for maybe a week tops. It only took Goku six days to reach Namek, and when they communicated with him he was more than halfway there. And before they died they couldn't even put a scratch on Nappa who is childs play compared to Vegeta. IAre you telling me that they made THAT much progress in three days?!!!

November Rain

11-21-2006, 07:58 AM

peer pressure dude...

Sloth7d

11-21-2006, 08:00 AM

:huh:

November Rain

11-21-2006, 08:06 AM

the drive to wish to get back to earth and help and to also out do one another.

basically the same reason as to why they stormed down snake's path.

the fact that there was someone else there to drive them to sucess, the same kinda logic as to how Gohan would have never reached ssj or ssj 2 without goku's help.

peer pressure but in a positive way...

that's how i rationalise it

Sloth7d

11-21-2006, 08:22 AM

Oh... Well, you could have said motivators or sparring partner. But I still doubt all the sparring buddies in the world would make them more than 20 times stronger than they were then, especially in less than a week.
There power levels on earth were less than 2000 each. Vegetas powerlevel was around the 20,000 and then he had two near death experinces thus doubling his power twice. And despite all that Recoome still toyed with him when they faught and beat him easily. Now how did Tien manage to increase his power more than 30 times what it was in less than a week? And not only that he beat Recoome in like two hits. I still say its bull

November Rain

11-21-2006, 08:27 AM

everyone's power levels were making rapid jumps around then...

considering goku went from vegeta to training in 100g for a few days to captain ginyu to frieza and thus supersaiyan in an incredibly short period of real time, if he could pull that out of the bagn all without dying, then anything is possible...

Sloth7d

11-21-2006, 08:36 AM

But it WAS 100 times gravity and he had a near death experience before that, thus doubling his power. And it not like Goku did that all on his own strenth. The kaio ken is the main factor that allowed him to do so well against freeza. A move that multiplied his power by 20, and the supersaiyan transformation is another power up that isn't really based off training. Maybe if Tien could do kaio ken or was a saiyan I could believe the battles outcome, but it just didn't seem reasonable to me. It was just another filler for the anime that showed inconsistency.

Gotenks

11-21-2006, 01:59 PM

Goku was stronger then Gohan at the END of DBZ.

CBG

11-21-2006, 05:54 PM

Due to a scholarly and married life on Gohan's part.

Warhammer

11-21-2006, 07:19 PM

Goku was stronger then Gohan at the END of DBZ.

Is that set in stone or an opinion?

Gotenks

11-21-2006, 07:28 PM

So you think on the last episode or last page that if Gohan decided to jump out of nowhere and challenge goku that he would win?

Edit: Besides if not its as good as an opinion as you and sloth thinking Gohan is stronger.

Warhammer

11-21-2006, 08:58 PM

I never said that Gohan was stronger than Gohan at the end of DBZ.
Gohan was definitely stronger when Buu was around, but I always agreed that Goku was stronger at the end.

I was just wondering if the manga/anime ever said that Goku was stronger.

Gotenks

11-21-2006, 09:51 PM

edit

Gotenks

11-21-2006, 09:53 PM

Ultra-Herald9

11-22-2006, 12:05 AM

Nope I re-read it and it doesn't exactly say he is stronger, but we all now that he is at the end.
The topic about Goku not even being able to defeat base buu is also speculation because the anime isn't always right and if you read the manga again its to vague. You can't really tell.

But we also have to remember Gohans FULL potential was released so technically even if he completey stopped training that would change nothing. Heck even if he did continue training nothing would change because he can get no stronger. I think Gohan is strongest in the end.:yay:

Sloth7d

11-22-2006, 12:49 AM

Goku was stronger then Gohan at the END of DBZ.
Theres no proof to this. The last thing we can determine for sure is that MysticGohan during the buu saga was stronger than SSJ3 Goku. Mainly because Goku was scared to fight buu without fusion and Gohan had him on the ropes with two punches.

Gotenks

11-22-2006, 11:20 AM

Goku was not scared.

LouFerignoDemon

11-22-2006, 11:22 AM

But we also have to remember Gohans FULL potential was released so technically even if he completey stopped training that would change nothing. Heck even if he did continue training nothing would change because he can get no stronger. I think Gohan is strongest in the end.:yay:

I don't know about that. I think it's meant that he can train to no higher level of being. Like it would be a perfect super saiyajin, rather than having to completely go through all the levels. He would be at that level with zero strain, not that he couldn't train at it.

November Rain

11-22-2006, 11:49 AM

But we also have to remember Gohans FULL potential was released so technically even if he completey stopped training that would change nothing. Heck even if he did continue training nothing would change because he can get no stronger. I think Gohan is strongest in the end.:yay:I've always wondered about this interpretation of Full potential.

I believe that it was gohan's full potential AT THE TIME. which is all good and dandy but it would go against the natural events and laws that his saiyan make up dictates should happen.

Sloth7d

11-22-2006, 04:22 PM

Goku was not scared.
Yeah sure acted like it. He didn't want any part of superbuu, unless he used fusion. Even desperate enough to consider Mr.Satan for a fusion partner.
Also, theres the fact that Gotenks was stated to be more powerful than Goku, even by Goku himself. And Gotenks still had to try his hardest to injure Buu, while Gohan only used a few attacks and had Buu curling up.
The difference between MysticGohan and SSJ3Goku is way too obvious to deny.

Sloth7d

11-22-2006, 04:25 PM

I've always wondered about this interpretation of Full potential.

I believe that it was gohan's full potential AT THE TIME. which is all good and dandy but it would go against the natural events and laws that his saiyan make up dictates should happen.
I don't think that he couldn't get any stronger. Hell, Guru releashed his inner potential once and he improved by vast amounts since then. Going from struggling with Recoome to killing PerfectCell. I don't by that he couldn't get any stronger crap.

Warhammer

11-22-2006, 04:37 PM

Gotenks

11-22-2006, 09:58 PM

Yeah sure acted like it. He didn't want any part of superbuu, unless he used fusion. Even desperate enough to consider Mr.Satan for a fusion partner.
Also, theres the fact that Gotenks was stated to be more powerful than Goku, even by Goku himself. And Gotenks still had to try his hardest to injure Buu, while Gohan only used a few attacks and had Buu curling up.
The difference between MysticGohan and SSJ3Goku is way too obvious to deny.

Gotenks is a fused character he doesn't count.:o

Edit: I never said he could beat buu at that time or Gohan Im just saying at the end, Goku was stronger and thats all. You keep bringing up the past for example Gohan beat cell so Thats why Gohan is stronger. Yeah that was 7 years ago.....who cares. Now back to the topic it has been ten years which Goku has spent training. Gohan on the other hand he got married had a child who is about 4 I think correct me If I was mistaken. So 4 of those 10 years were devoted to raising his daughter. If he was as strong as you say then why didnt he enter the tournament to win so money for him or his mother?

Ultra-Herald9

11-22-2006, 11:37 PM

This argument usually always leads us back to the who is stronger argument, SSJ3Goku or ChouGohan? Which is really ridiculous, because it couldn't be anymore clearer.

hahaha. You are psychic.:wow:

saiyan jedi

11-23-2006, 03:26 AM

Yeah sure acted like it. He didn't want any part of superbuu, unless he used fusion. Even desperate enough to consider Mr.Satan for a fusion partner.this was against super buu III who would have owned gohan with one punch
The difference between MysticGohan and SSJ3Goku is way too obvious to deny.
goku was able to hold his own against buu while gohn was looking
for the potara earring, while gohan never landed a single hit.

i agree gohan is stronger but their power difference is
not as obvious as you think

Sloth7d

11-23-2006, 04:59 AM

Gotenks is a fused character he doesn't count.:o
How doesn't he count?:huh: He's a character who was stated to be stronger than Goku who had to go all out to even begin damaging Buu. While MysticGohan made it look like Buu was a joke.

Edit: I never said he could beat buu at that time or Gohan Im just saying at the end, Goku was stronger and thats all. You keep bringing up the past for example Gohan beat cell so Thats why Gohan is stronger.
I didn't bring that up.:huh:
I just said it was obvious during the Buu saga(pre-time jump) MysticGohan was stronger than SSJ3Goku. And anything after that is speculation.
I didn't bring up the cell saga once.:huh:
Yeah that was 7 years ago.....who cares. Now back to the topic it has been ten years which Goku has spent training. Gohan on the other hand he got married had a child who is about 4 I think correct me If I was mistaken. So 4 of those 10 years were devoted to raising his daughter. If he was as strong as you say then why didnt he enter the tournament to win so money for him or his mother?
Like I said at this point you can come to any conclusion you want, but its all speculation. Theres nothing definate.

Sloth7d

11-23-2006, 05:02 AM

goku was able to hold his own against buu while gohn was looking
for the potara earring, while gohan never landed a single hit.

i agree gohan is stronger but their power difference is
not as obvious as you think
Wasn't that part a filler for the anime? If not then all I can say is that Buu was toying with Goku. Because there is no way a non-SSJ3Goku could even begin to hold his own against a SuperBuu/w Gotenks absorbed. Even MajinVegeta had trouble against an inferior Fatbuu. So how would an equally strong Goku fend off a superior fighter. Because he wasn't SSJ3 at the time.

Ultra-Herald9

11-23-2006, 06:37 AM

Hey guys I think my cornyness lead to the closure of the kid buu versus hulk thread.:csad: Oh well good riddance I guess?:woot:

Ultra-Herald9

11-23-2006, 06:38 AM

Anyways......I still think Gohan was quite a bit stronger than Goku and even at the end he probably still had a slight edge power wise.

Ultra-Herald9

11-23-2006, 07:09 AM

Come to think of it.....after re reading the final volums of DBZ I don't think it was ever explicitly said that Gohan comeplety stopped his training and in fact he stated that he would have wanted to fight in the tournement. I think Gohan quiting his training is only a widely assumed. Heck even as a scholar he could still find time to train.

Ultra-Herald9

11-23-2006, 07:11 AM

Wow this thread is getting way off topic but I don't care. At least people are slightly interested.

Warhammer

11-23-2006, 08:57 AM

Wasn't that part a filler for the anime? If not then all I can say is that Buu was toying with Goku. Because there is no way a non-SSJ3Goku could even begin to hold his own against a SuperBuu/w Gotenks absorbed. Even MajinVegeta had trouble against an inferior Fatbuu. So how would an equally strong Goku fend off a superior fighter. Because he wasn't SSJ3 at the time.

Yep.
Non-canon.

In the manga, Goku went SSJ3 and then Buu suddenly lost Gotenks's fusion power. No fight at all.

...and I'm glad you brought up that Goku was scared when he was looking for another person to do the fusion. I forgot all about that.

You're right, it's all pure speculation at the END of DBZ.

Warhammer

11-23-2006, 08:59 AM

Gotenks

11-23-2006, 11:11 AM

^Yeah the only thing he did was put his fists up and then buu turned to buu with Piccolo absorbed. Goku then powers down and says " Too bad...its kinda disapointing...Gohan can handle you now..."

Gotenks

11-23-2006, 11:16 AM

How doesn't he count?:huh: He's a character who was stated to be stronger than Goku who had to go all out to even begin damaging Buu. While MysticGohan made it look like Buu was a joke.

I thought this agrument was who was the strongest unfused character?:huh:
If not then Vegerot owns all!:woot: :oldrazz:

I didn't bring that up.:huh:
I just said it was obvious during the Buu saga(pre-time jump) MysticGohan was stronger than SSJ3Goku. And anything after that is speculation.
I didn't bring up the cell saga once.:huh:

I know he was stronger then.
I was only using that as an example.

Like I said at this point you can come to any conclusion you want, but its all speculation. Theres nothing definate.

Its my opinion.....and I stand by it.
Could what you said be used against you saying Gohan is stronger at the end too?

Sloth7d

11-24-2006, 05:23 AM

I thought this agrument was who was the strongest unfused character?:huh:
If not then Vegerot owns all!:woot: :oldrazz:
I thought it was about whos the strongest between Goku and Gohan. I only used Gotenks as a reference, because he was stated to be stronger than Goku(even by Goku himself) and yet Gohan manhandled Buu in a way Gotenks couldn't. Since Gotenks was stronger than Goku, Gohan must be well above him.
But yeah, if we were discussing absolute strongest then Veggito owns all.

I know he was stronger then.
I was only using that as an example.
Okay... But I still didn't reference the Cell saga at all...

Its my opinion.....and I stand by it.
Could what you said be used against you saying Gohan is stronger at the end too?
I'm not saying Goku wasn't strongest by the end, I'm just saying its speculation. I too think Goku was the strongest ten years later, but its still speculation. And since I can't prove it, I'm forced to say Gohan was the strongest unfused by the end of DBZ, out of lack of evidence. Thats all I'm saying.

SSJ4_Mikael

11-24-2006, 09:13 AM

Anyways......I still think Gohan was quite a bit stronger than Goku and even at the end he probably still had a slight edge power wise.
Quite a bit?

Gohan reached his potential that's why he couldent go SSJ after he got the ritual training, because there was no more power that his body could harness.
So basicly chou Gohan coulden't become more powerful ever, he was at the edge of his potential.
And we all know Gohan have greater potential than Gokou, you know, first to reach SSJ2 and so on.

So Gohan's power-potential is superior to Gokou's.
And the ritual made hiom reach his potential.

Chou Gohan > (chou Gokou) >> FPSSJ3 Gokou

And someone said that SSJ3 Gokou could hold his own against Boo-tenkusu ... What a joke, anime = non-canon.
Here's what happend:
Boo charged against Gokou. (http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume41/Db41ch17/411709.gif)
Boo stops ... (http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume41/Db41ch17/411710.gif)

He never touched him Gokou ...

Ultra-Herald9

11-24-2006, 10:43 AM

LouFerignoDemon

11-24-2006, 10:45 AM

Ultra-Herald9

11-24-2006, 10:50 AM

Same reason Hulk fans, Superman fans, and Batman fans do.

do what:huh:

Ultra-Herald9

11-24-2006, 10:50 AM

Same reason Hulk fans, Superman fans, and Batman fans do.

but ya.....we are pretty bad.:o

Gotenks

11-24-2006, 11:32 AM

Why do Dbz fans want Goku to be the strongest so badly? Is the thought of Gohan finally surpassing his dad in power such a horrible thought? Do people really think he magically lost his Mystic power up? Do people think that Goku managed to become stronger than a full power unlocked Gohan?

It was just meant to be.
Goku was the strongest then Gohan beat cell and he became the strongest. He started slacking off then Goku becaome the strongest again. Then Gohan had his potentail unlocked for the second time and he became the strongest then........

Can someone else finish this pattern for me?

Warhammer

11-24-2006, 11:35 AM

It was just meant to be.
Goku was the strongest then Gohan beat cell and he became the strongest. He started slacking off then Goku becaome the strongest again. Then Gohan had his potentail unlocked for the second time and he became the strongest then........

Can someone else finish this pattern for me?

Technically, Vegeta was the strongest at one time, as well.

SSJ4_Mikael

11-24-2006, 11:36 AM

Gokou didnt become the most powerful, he bacame the #1 fighter in the DB-verse.
His fighting-skills were supreme to Gohan's, but he wasen't more powerful.
Only anime-watching fanboys tells the differ.

Ultra-Herald9

11-24-2006, 11:36 AM

Gotenks

11-24-2006, 11:43 AM

I thought it was about whos the strongest between Goku and Gohan. I only used Gotenks as a reference, because he was stated to be stronger than Goku(even by Goku himself) and yet Gohan manhandled Buu in a way Gotenks couldn't. Since Gotenks was stronger than Goku, Gohan must be well above him.
But yeah, if we were discussing absolute strongest then Veggito owns all.

Ok atleast we agree on that.

Okay... But I still didn't reference the Cell saga at all...

What Im saying is that you are using the facts from ten years earlier when thats not even the end of DBZ.

I'm not saying Goku wasn't strongest by the end, I'm just saying its speculation. I too think Goku was the strongest ten years later, but its still speculation. And since I can't prove it, I'm forced to say Gohan was the strongest unfused by the end of DBZ, out of lack of evidence. Thats all I'm saying.

Its ok, your opinion is valued here at the hype.
I share that same opinion.

Gotenks

11-24-2006, 11:46 AM

Technically, Vegeta was the strongest at one time, as well.
True.
Still this just about Goku and Gohan.

Warhammer

11-24-2006, 11:46 AM

True.
Still this just about Goku and Gohan.

True.

Gotenks

11-24-2006, 11:47 AM

Gotenks

11-24-2006, 11:48 AM

.......Gohan stays the strongest?:huh: :oldrazz:

:woot:
:wow:
:cmad:

Ultra-Herald9

11-24-2006, 11:49 AM

To me it never mattered much who was strongest. I liked both characters but I always liked the idea that Gohan finally became the strongest. Thats what Goku really wanted. For him his son finally ascending to the strongest saiyan wold probably make him happier than if Grampa Gohan came back. Goku would probably just spar all day with Gohan non stop.

Gotenks

11-24-2006, 12:02 PM

I guess that does make sense.

LouFerignoDemon

11-24-2006, 12:17 PM

Technically, Vegeta was the strongest at one time, as well.

Technicalities make poor arguments.

That's why rapists only get off on technicalities.

Warhammer

11-24-2006, 12:18 PM

Technicalities make poor arguments.

That's why rapists only get off on technicalities.

:csad: :csad: :csad: :csad:

That post felt like so much ownage.

LouFerignoDemon

11-24-2006, 12:23 PM

:csad: :csad: :csad: :csad:

That post felt like so much ownage.

I'm sorry, I just hate technicalities. Those who use technicalities for arguments tend to know very little and such, and I'm ALWAYS in arguments with people like that.

I know you're much smarter than that, but I still hate technicalities.

Warhammer

11-24-2006, 01:07 PM

Sorry.

LouFerignoDemon

11-24-2006, 02:11 PM

Not your fault. Just me being...well...me. O.o As bad as it is.

Ultra-Herald9

11-26-2006, 06:41 AM

So we are all in agreement that Superboy wins?:joker:

Guyverjay

11-26-2006, 06:52 AM

you know, i'm not even satisfied with the whole buu saga was dealt with back in teh day...

if a spirit bomb was all it took, surely a Kai would have given him a universal scale one back in the day.

if he was so bad, he needed to be banished i would have thought that the same would be necessary in the present day.

those latter sagas and a whole load of GT era dragonball really get on my ta tas...

We know that King Kai could never actually perfrom the technique himself (or was it the Kai-oken? Meh it was probably be both) chances are noone else could either.

Guyverjay

11-26-2006, 07:19 AM

Quite a bit?

Gohan reached his potential that's why he couldent go SSJ after he got the ritual training, because there was no more power that his body could harness.
So basicly chou Gohan coulden't become more powerful ever, he was at the edge of his potential.
And we all know Gohan have greater potential than Gokou, you know, first to reach SSJ2 and so on.

So Gohan's power-potential is superior to Gokou's.
And the ritual made hiom reach his potential.

Chou Gohan > (chou Gokou) >> FPSSJ3 Gokou

And someone said that SSJ3 Gokou could hold his own against Boo-tenkusu ... What a joke, anime = non-canon.
Here's what happend:
Boo charged against Gokou. (http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume41/Db41ch17/411709.gif)
Boo stops ... (http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume41/Db41ch17/411710.gif)

He never touched him Gokou ...

Gokus potential is never measured and we know he never reached it by the end of DBZ. Otherwise why would he train? He trains to become stronger. If he couldn't become stronger Goku would probably lose his will to live.

Theres nothing in the manga that I'm aware of (I haven't read it in while but I'm pretty sure) that says that Gohan couldn't go SSJ if he tried, but WHY would he need to? The mystic power up allows him to access his full power without the need for the transformation (which consumes KI like a sum*****). The mystic power up pushed his power beyond his limits at the time, unlocked his hidden potential at the time. Just like the Guru power up did. We all know a Sayans power is on a sliding scale. Gohans limits when he was 10 is different to what it was when he was 13 for example.

A SSJ's power is potentially limitless thats the whole point, thats why Freiza crapped his pants at the thought of one.

Being the first to this and the first to that means Jack and **** in the grand scheme of things. Goten and Chibi Trunks both reached SSJ younger than Gohan for example.

The stronger the father the stronger the child when born, there's nothing canon proving this but all evidence seems to point to it.

Fatality

11-26-2006, 09:31 PM

Kidd buu would absorb him

Ultra-Herald9

11-27-2006, 04:01 AM

Kidd buu would absorb him

Like I said before he'd hear it coming. And even if he gets caught Superboy Prime would just Vibrate himself intangible.

November Rain

11-27-2006, 04:23 AM

We know that King Kai could never actually perfrom the technique himself (or was it the Kai-oken? Meh it was probably be both) chances are noone else could either.I didn't know King Kai was unable to do either personally.

seems a lil odd being able to teach techniques but not able to perform them.

I guess it's a little thing i will have to live with.

Sloth7d

11-27-2006, 04:37 AM

So we are all in agreement that Superboy wins?:joker:
No, but I respect everbodies standpoint.

Ultra-Herald9

11-27-2006, 05:48 AM

No, but I respect everbodies standpoint.

Hey man with all personal biast aside I think Superboy Prime was the more powerful character. I did this thread thinking that Kid Buu was the Galaxy busting dimension bending fiend but I found out that this was all non-canon. In the manga he was hardly a threat and SSJ3 could fight him to a standstill which makes me think regular Superman could beat him.

I think that Superboy would just destroy him with a heat vision blast. I mean Buu just wasn't as big as fanboy's make him out to be.

Sloth7d

11-27-2006, 06:04 AM

Hey man with all personal biast aside I think Superboy Prime was the more powerful character. I did this thread thinking that Kid Buu was the Galaxy busting dimension bending fiend but I found out that this was all non-canon. In the manga he was hardly a threat and SSJ3 could fight him to a standstill which makes me think regular Superman could beat him.

I think that Superboy would just destroy him with a heat vision blast. I mean Buu just wasn't as big as fanboy's make him out to be.
But you say that like SSJ3 is weak. Just by powering up it almost destroyed the planet. Kidbuu is however several times stronger than superperfect Cell, who was stated to be able to bust a solarsystem. I don't know if he's on a level of galactal destruction, but he's pretty up there in comparrison. I honestly do believe Kidbuu wins this. No biase involved.

Ultra-Herald9

11-27-2006, 07:48 AM

But you say that like SSJ3 is weak. Just by powering up it almost destroyed the planet. Kidbuu is however several times stronger than superperfect Cell, who was stated to be able to bust a solarsystem. I don't know if he's on a level of galactal destruction, but he's pretty up there in comparrison. I honestly do believe Kidbuu wins this. No biase involved.

When I read the Manga SSJ3 only made the earth "tremble" as stated by Tien. That hardly equals earth destroying. Plus you are comparing that to a character who was gonna destroy the universe in a tantrum.

Sloth7d

11-27-2006, 07:50 AM

When I read the Manga SSJ3 only made the earth "tremble" as stated by Tien. That hardly equals earth destroying. Plus you are comparing that to a character who was gonna destroy the universe in a tantrum.
Well all he was going to do was bust through a planet and cause a chain reaction. Thats different than just blowing it up.

Ultra-Herald9

11-27-2006, 07:56 AM

Superboy Prime was stated by writers to be a bigger threat than the multiversal destroyer Anti-Monitor. SP was freezing people who can survive the cold of space(I really don't know how that works) and he blasted a whole panel of characters including Solomon Grundy down to skeletons and beyond with a flash of his heat vision.

I think anyone with silverage Superman levels of power could take out a freaking Fusion with little problem and Superboy Prime is on that level. For all the greatness of Buu I see little feats to back it up. Heck Hercule can survive being hit by him(low blow I know.....:csad: ).

Ultra-Herald9

11-27-2006, 07:59 AM

Well all he was going to do was bust through a planet and cause a chain reaction. Thats different than just blowing it up.

Indeed but his power is still absolutely staggering.

Sloth7d

11-27-2006, 08:06 AM

Indeed but his power is still absolutely staggering.
But Buus power is also staggering.Without even trying he blewup the earth with a weak ki blast.And the hercule thing was just stupid. Sometimes that happens in comics. From AuntMay and MaryJane defeating Chameleon to Thor being knocked out by a bullet, to (even though non-canon) Wolverine impaling Lobo, and Wolverine being able to slice through Hulk. I think it was just written like that for comedies sake. No different than Goku being hurt by a pebble. Even though in the past we've seen him knocked through the budokai tournament ring and shrug it off like it didn't hurt.

Sloth7d

11-27-2006, 08:07 AM

Question. Why are we asrguing this? I thought we decided no to argue about it.

Ultra-Herald9

11-27-2006, 09:00 AM

Question. Why are we asrguing this? I thought we decided no to argue about it.

Sorry my fanboy kicked in.:csad: :yay:

hippie_hunter

11-27-2006, 09:42 AM

I have to go with Superboy-Prime.

- He has the normal Kryptonian powers of flight, speed capable of reaching lightspeed, strength capable of moving planets, invulnerability, super-breath, arctic breath, super-hearing, X-ray vision, heat vision, microscopic vision, telescopic vision, vision to see the electromagnetic spectrum, "soul" vision, an enhanced healing factor, and enhanced intelligence

- Is not weakened by any type of kryptonite or magic

- Escaped from the Phantom Zone, his heavenly paradise, and Speed Force and broke through a line of Green Lantern ring energy 300 miles thick

- Has warped reality and history with his punches on his heavenly paradise, resurecting Jason Todd and convulting the histories of the Doom Patrol, Hawkman, Superman, Troia, and the Legion of Superheroes

- Attempted to create a new Big Bang to restore Earth-Prime.

- Destroyed the JLA Watchtower, defeating and capturing the Martian Manhunter

- Killed Superman-2, Superboy, Pantha, Bushido, Wildebeast, thirty-two Green Lanterns, Major Disaster, Breach, Zauriel, Baron Blitzkrieg, Charaxes/Killer Moth, Looker, Technocrat, ripped off Risk's arm, and nearly killed Superman

- Disrupted Thanagar's orbit causing it to orbit too close to its sun, Polaris

- It took Superman, Superman-2, thousands of Green Lanterns (including John Stewart, Guy Gardner, Hal Jordan, and Mogo)

- His prison consists of 50 Green Lantern guards, a Red Sun-Eater provided by Troia, and a quantum containment field on Oa

Guyverjay

11-27-2006, 01:01 PM

When I read the Manga SSJ3 only made the earth "tremble" as stated by Tien. That hardly equals earth destroying. Plus you are comparing that to a character who was gonna destroy the universe in a tantrum.

No offence but SSJ1 Goku can make "the earth tremble" using half his power

SSJ3 could destroy it if he allowed it to, good thing Goku has this lttle thing called "control"

LouFerignoDemon

11-27-2006, 01:30 PM

I have to go with Superboy-Prime. He has the ability to start a Big Bang and destroy the entire universe. He has the ability to alter reality with his punches. He killed the regular Superboy. He nearly killed the regular Superman and Superman-2. He can resist kryptonite and magic. He has escaped from the Speed Force and the Phantom Zone. He killed nearly 40 Green Lanterns. It took thousands of Green Laterns, two Supermen, and a red sun to finally stop him.

Kind of, sort of. He was able to physically break reality, able to supercede the speed of light unaided (which is utter crap, the DCU had reasons why they couldn't. Either way,) he didn't really escape the Phantom Zone. And he needed his suit after a while to gain energy for himself.

However, the only reason I would pick him is heat vision. He could just incinerate him with the power of the sun.

Phenomenal

11-27-2006, 01:46 PM

Goku would kick SB prime's abut up and down seseme street.

Gotenks

11-27-2006, 02:40 PM

Everybody he didnt mean he doesnt know what he is talking about.
He meant kid buu.
Phenomenol, please dont start agrument that you dont plan to debate in.

Ultra-Herald9

11-27-2006, 03:18 PM

No offence but SSJ1 Goku can make "the earth tremble" using half his power

SSJ3 could destroy it if he allowed it to, good thing Goku has this lttle thing called "control"

Woohoo:whatever:! The generic earthquake power up. It was stated that the earth was trembling with Goku becoming an SSJ3! EARTH TREMBLING DOES NOT EQUAL DESTRUCTION. Tien was shocked but he wasn't there was no sense of ergency leading me to believe that all was fine.I really don't understand the point of arguing with fanboy's about this crap!

Fanboy's do alot of talking based on freaking nothing! To you guys Goku can do anything he flippin wants. You guys will always come up with some half @$$ excuse for him to pull some new ability or feat out his craphole and whats your excuse for it........"he just doesn't want to" or "he controls his power".:cmad:

Show me in the manga where SSJ1 Goku at half power made the intire earth shake please.......(not saying this never happened but I still doubt it seeing as even Ultra Trunks and SSj2 Gohan didn't do it).

Ultra-Herald9

11-27-2006, 03:21 PM

Goku would kick SB prime's abut up and down seseme street.

Superboy would rip Goku's freakin arms off and punch him out of reality. Then he'd throw the entire Z earth into the sun! See I can be a raving fanboy too:woot:! Now please read the thread title next time....:whatever:

hippie_hunter

11-27-2006, 03:50 PM

Kind of, sort of. He was able to physically break reality, able to supercede the speed of light unaided (which is utter crap, the DCU had reasons why they couldn't. Either way,) he didn't really escape the Phantom Zone. And he needed his suit after a while to gain energy for himself.
- Superboy-Prime was imprisoned in the Phantom Zone by Speedy using the blue Phantom Zone arrow. He smashed his way out just like he smashed his way out of paradise.

- Also Superboy-Prime disrupted Thanagar's orbit making it go too close to its sun, Polaris

- And he needed the suit to escape from the Speed Force and collect yellow sun energy anywhere!

Warhammer

11-27-2006, 05:37 PM

Goku would kick SB prime's abut up and down seseme street.

Wow. :dry:

Even if you said that Goku would win, clearly based on your post, you don't really know who Superboy Prime is. Goku definitely could not kick Superboy Prime's "but up and down seseme street."

LouFerignoDemon

11-27-2006, 05:46 PM

- Superboy-Prime was imprisoned in the Phantom Zone by Speedy using the blue Phantom Zone arrow. He smashed his way out just like he smashed his way out of paradise.

- Also Superboy-Prime disrupted Thanagar's orbit making it go too close to its sun, Polaris

- And he needed the suit to escape from the Speed Force and collect yellow sun energy anywhere!

I remember that now. About the P.Z.

I never said anything about orbit stuff.

And after that, he kept the suit on, as he became different, most likely requiring the suit after that.

Phenomenal

11-27-2006, 06:26 PM

Wow. :dry:

Even if you said that Goku would win, clearly based on your post, you don't really know who Superboy Prime is. Goku definitely could not kick Superboy Prime's "but up and down seseme street."
Like who? BP has beaten teen titans, doom patrol and Martian Mnhunter.
Black Adam was doing a fairly good job until he stopped

Oh really?. This is a guy who only foguht -list characters Goku takes on A-S level fighters. Goku OUTCLASSES SBP in every category.

Black Adam was doing a fairly good job until he stopped
Conners(superboy) made him bleed
Was deathly afraid of Kid Flash
Superman got the better of him on mogo after they went through a red sun

Besides killing the c-list TT and DP people he fought wasnt anything anyone with cl 100 strength couldnt do

And the shot on MM was a sucker shot, the next time they met MM was fine

LouFerignoDemon

11-27-2006, 06:28 PM

Oh really?. This is a guy who only foguht -list characters Goku takes on A-S level fighters. Goku OUTCLASSES SBP in every category.

Black Adam was doing a fairly good job until he stopped
Conners(superboy) made him bleed
Was deathly afraid of Kid Flash
Superman got the better of him on mogo after they went through a red sun

Besides killing the c-list TT and DP people he fought wasnt anything anyone with cl 100 strength couldnt do

And the shot on MM was a sucker shot, the next time they met MM was fine

I don't care how powerful I was. If I were ripped through a few dimensions of conceptual things, I'd probably be afraid of what could do that to me too.

However, you're kind of understating SBP a bit. I could easily say that Goku needed to become a SSJ to move one ton weights on his arms and legs. But that would still be understating Goku, as I don't explain the context for WHY.

CBG

11-27-2006, 06:43 PM

Oh really?. This is a guy who only foguht -list characters Goku takes on A-S level fighters. Goku OUTCLASSES SBP in every category.

Not strength. That's a definite.

Phenomenal

11-27-2006, 06:58 PM

I don't care how powerful I was. If I were ripped through a few dimensions of conceptual things, I'd probably be afraid of what could do that to me too.

However, you're kind of understating SBP a bit. I could easily say that Goku needed to become a SSJ to move one ton weights on his arms and legs. But that would still be understating Goku, as I don't explain the context for WHY.

No I am NOT underrating SBP. SBP is just that overrated I don't give a rats ass about busting through the phantom Zone, I sure as hell didn't see that phantom Zone busting strength in BATTLE!:whatever: Goku just outclasses SBP however you want to look at it.

Not strength. That's a definite.

Oh really? Goku's punches can DAMAGE characters who can CASUALLY SHRUGG off Planet destroying attacks! If that is not great hiting power I don't know what is.

LouFerignoDemon

11-27-2006, 07:01 PM

No I am NOT underrating SBP. SBP is just that overrated I don't give a rats ass about busting through the phantom Zone, I sure as hell didn't see that phantom Zone busting strength in BATTLE!:whatever: Goku just outclasses SBP however you want to look at it.

Oh really? Goku's punches can DAMAGE characters who can CASUALLY SHRUGG off Planet destroying attacks! If that is not great hiting power I don't know what is.

That's holding a bias. Bias' are bad.

And he WAS using that strength in battle.

CBG

11-27-2006, 07:07 PM

No I am NOT underrating SBP. SBP is just that overrated I don't give a rats ass about busting through the phantom Zone, I sure as hell didn't see that phantom Zone busting strength in BATTLE! Goku just outclasses SBP however you want to look at it.

Save strength.

Oh really? Goku's punches can DAMAGE characters who can CASUALLY SHRUGG off Planet destroying attacks! If that is not great hiting power I don't know what is.

And yet, Goku died from one in the Cell Saga, and so did Gohan, Trunks, and Goten in the Buu Saga.

Jplaya2023

11-27-2006, 07:20 PM

Save strength.

And yet, Goku died from one in the Cell Saga, and so did Gohan, Trunks, and Goten in the Buu Saga.

goku dying was a plot hole

gohan trunks and goten were knocked out and unable to protect themselves for the attack.

CBG

11-27-2006, 07:26 PM

goku dying was a plot hole

No, he died. Plain and simple.

gohan trunks and goten were knocked out and unable to protect themselves for the attack.

And they still died.

Phenomenal

11-27-2006, 07:45 PM

Save strength.

And yet, Goku died from one in the Cell Saga, and so did Gohan, Trunks, and Goten in the Buu Saga.

The Bomb was created to kill Goku! Who knows how powerful that blast was! Did I mention that Goku was WEAKENED from a battle with Cell and then getting beaten up by Cell Juniors. Gohan,Trunks and Goten Died because they were concussed and had NO ki whatsoever in that state! So that doesn't count.

Goku is NOT loosing to a guy who was knocked into a phantom Zone by an arrow!:whatever:

CBG

11-27-2006, 07:52 PM

The Bomb was created to kill Goku! Who knows how powerful that blast was! Did I mention that Goku was WEAKENED from a battle with Cell and then getting beaten up by Cell Juniors. Gohan,Trunks and Goten Died because they were concussed and had NO ki whatsoever in that state! So that doesn't count.

Is there a panel where it says the bombs were specifically built to eliminate Goku? And why was everyone worried when it was about to go off? Why not simply clear the vicinity?

Goku is NOT loosing to a guy who was knocked into a phantom Zone by an arrow!

Superboy-Prime? I'm not really a big fan of him. Sure, his strength greatly exceeds that of Goku. Though, his state of mind can be his downfall. But either way, I rather not argue on his behalf; I don't like the character much.

hippie_hunter

11-27-2006, 07:54 PM

Oh really?. This is a guy who only foguht -list characters Goku takes on A-S level fighters. Goku OUTCLASSES SBP in every category.
Saying it like that shows huge bias and that you are willing to ignore all of Superboy-Prime's abilities.

Black Adam was doing a fairly good job until he stopped
Actually Superboy-Prime shrugged it off rather easily. He was crying in fear because he was afraid that he was weak against magic. Then he realised that he could resist magic and said that it didn't hurt. Then he sent Black Adam flying all the way to Earth-S.

Conners(superboy) made him bleed
Well Connor is half-Kryptonian. And Connor went all out on him because he was hurting his girlfriend.

Was deathly afraid of Kid Flash
Because the Flashes trapped him in the Speed Force for an equivalent of 4 years.

Superman got the better of him on mogo after they went through a red sun
That's because Rao drained all three Kryptonians of their powers. Without his power, Superboy-Prime just has the abilities of a normal person.

Besides killing the c-list TT and DP people he fought wasnt anything anyone with cl 100 strength couldnt do
He didn't kill any members of the Doom Patrol.

And the shot on MM was a sucker shot, the next time they met MM was fine
Right when Martian Manhunter got freed he took on a few OMACs and then went off because Oracle contacted him and battled in the Battle of Metropolis. He did not have a fight with Superboy-Prime.

hippie_hunter

11-27-2006, 07:56 PM

Goku is NOT loosing to a guy who was knocked into a phantom Zone by an arrow!:whatever:

Actually he got out quite easily, thus wasting the hype that Johns was building up for the blue arrow to do something great and save the day.

CBG

11-27-2006, 07:58 PM

Not to mention that particular Teen Titan IC tie-in issue had some really crappy, crappy art.

saiyan jedi

11-27-2006, 08:14 PM

No, he died. Plain and simple.
[B]yea by a VERY powerful blast[B/]

And they still died.
they died from lack of a little thing called OXYGEN:whatever:

Warhammer

11-27-2006, 08:40 PM

they died from lack of a little thing called OXYGEN:whatever:

:dry:

......their bodies weren't floating in space, so we can assume that their bodies were destroyed right along with the planet.

CBG

11-27-2006, 08:50 PM

they died from lack of a little thing called OXYGEN

Care to provide a scan that depicts their bodies intact after the destruction of earth?

MSGohan

11-27-2006, 08:55 PM

Planet destruction doesn't destroy them. Remember Freeza, he was cut in half and totally beaten.

Warhammer

11-27-2006, 08:57 PM

But we didnt see any bodies, so we can only assume that they blew up with the planet. Btw, Kid Buu's energy ball was big enough to destroy Gohan and co.

MSGohan

11-27-2006, 08:58 PM

Btw, Kid Buu's energy ball was big enough to destroy Gohan and co.
I was just thinking that. :up:

Warhammer

11-27-2006, 08:59 PM

I was just thinking that. :up:

That is one thing that I always forget. :D

CBG

11-27-2006, 09:04 PM

Planet destruction doesn't destroy them. Remember Freeza, he was cut in half and totally beaten.

Though, Frieza lived, while the others did not. In addition, Frieza's a completely different alien species than Saiyans.

MSGohan

11-27-2006, 09:05 PM

Though, Frieza lived, while the others did not. In addition, Frieza's a completely different alien species than Saiyans.
His not stronger than Chou Gohan.

Gotenks

11-27-2006, 09:19 PM

Goku wins.
Can't we go back to Kid buu vs Superboy?

MSGohan

11-27-2006, 09:28 PM

Goku wins.
Can't we go back to Kid buu vs Superboy?
The problem is Kid Buu, or any DBZ characters, has hardly any intresting features. That's what makes it a little difficult to compare them to characters who have nothing but feats to show how great their powers are.
DBZ power is left for an open mind IMO.

Kid Buu features: Mr. Satan could see Kid Buu flying towards him => Kid Buu certainly slower than a bullet?
Besides planet busting there aren't other feats to show their power.

Ultra-Herald9

11-27-2006, 10:44 PM

Fine if fanboys want Goku vs. Superboy Prime thats what they will get....

First off I can't believe that these fanboys even think Goku comes close to Superboy Prime in any catagory! Strength wise you are comparing a character who couldn't even lift 10 tons in his base state to a character who can easily move planets! Superboy would have Goku laid put with a couple punches tops.

Also for all this FTL DBZ crap I hear these characters are mighty slow! Even the most powerful characters in the series take forever to go somewhere even at the most urgent situations!
http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume42/Db42ch01/420104.gif

http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume42/Db42ch01/420105.gif
http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume42/Db42ch01/420106.gif
http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume42/Db42ch01/420107.gif
http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume42/Db42ch01/420108.gif
http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume42/Db42ch01/420109.gif
http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume42/Db42ch01/420110.gif
http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume42/Db42ch01/420111.gif

Look how long it took Mystic Buu just to get to freakin Goku and Vegeta. If he was traveling anywhere near lightspeed he should have been in there faces in a second. While in even less panels Superboy prime was in another Galaxy and this is all while being jumped by green lanterns! Heck Baba even had time to escape before Buu got there.

Ultra-Herald9

11-27-2006, 10:51 PM

Ultra-Herald9

11-27-2006, 10:56 PM

This isn't even a fight. Superboy would flash fry Goku to only bones by looking at him! Whats Goku gonna do charge up a kamehameha? Heck thats is Superboy decides not to stop him by frying his face plus Superboy can survive being dragged through suns including THE CORE! He easily shrugged off hits from an enraged Black Adam who wasfueling his punches with magic and Black Adam is WAY stronger than anyone in dragon ball Z physically.

You know what I take that last statement back. I'll give DBZ the benifit of the doubt.......in fact if fanboys think Goku can take Superboy Prime then there is no point in arguing. If they have the ability to convnce themselves of that based on no feats than they cannot be swayed.

MSGohan

11-27-2006, 11:04 PM

Also for all this FTL DBZ crap I hear these characters are mighty slow! Even the most powerful characters in the series take forever to go somewhere even at the most urgent situations!
http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume42/Db42ch01/420104.gif

http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume42/Db42ch01/420105.gif
http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume42/Db42ch01/420106.gif
http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume42/Db42ch01/420107.gif
http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume42/Db42ch01/420108.gif
http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume42/Db42ch01/420109.gif
http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume42/Db42ch01/420110.gif
http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume42/Db42ch01/420111.gif

Look how long it took Mystic Buu just to get to freakin Goku and Vegeta. If he was traveling anywhere near lightspeed he should have been in there faces in a second. While in even less panels Superboy prime was in another Galaxy and this is all while being jumped by green lanterns! Heck Baba even had time to escape before Buu got there.
I've explained this before (you read it too). Why didn't you bring the next page (http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume42/Db42ch01/420112.gif) too. Buu can see them and even when he was flying towards them, they had time to talk and Vegeta could manage to put the earrings on at that time. There was never meant to be any display of speed feats in those scenarios! If Buu could SEE them, even if he was 10 km away from them (you certainly need to be closer than that to a person), he could've made to them in less a second. Because Buu should certainly be able to move faster than Goku on snakeway back in the saiyan saga.
So these things ARE NOT speed feats, but just something to create some tension for the reader.

Ultra-Herald9

11-28-2006, 12:16 AM

I've explained this before (you read it too). Why didn't you bring the next page (http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume42/Db42ch01/420112.gif) too. Buu can see them and even when he was flying towards them, they had time to talk and Vegeta could manage to put the earrings on at that time. There was never meant to be any display of speed feats in those scenarios! If Buu could SEE them, even if he was 10 km away from them (you certainly need to be closer than that to a person), he could've made to them in less a second. Because Buu should certainly be able to move faster than Goku on snakeway back in the saiyan saga.
So these things ARE NOT speed feats, but just something to create some tension for the reader.

I'll try to find more valid ones........

Sloth7d

11-28-2006, 07:11 AM

This is still going mm...?

Jplaya2023

11-28-2006, 10:37 AM

Fine if fanboys want Goku vs. Superboy Prime thats what they will get....

First off I can't believe that these fanboys even think Goku comes close to Superboy Prime in any catagory! Strength wise you are comparing a character who couldn't even lift 10 tons in his base state to a character who can easily move planets! Superboy would have Goku laid put with a couple punches tops.

The hell??? goku as a child was moving mountains that weigh atleast 5 tons as an 8 year old brat. Not to mention its much harder wearing something heavy than lifting something heavy. After the frieza saga AT no longer cared about that type of stuff he just wanted the series to end but kept going. Saying superboy beats goku with punches is idiotic. Goku would lay superboy out with punches because superboy isnt more durable than a planet and the rogues goku fights and injures are more durable than planet.

Also for all this FTL DBZ crap I hear these characters are mighty slow! Even the most powerful characters in the series take forever to go somewhere even at the most urgent situations!
http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume42/Db42ch01/420104.gif

http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume42/Db42ch01/420105.gif
http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume42/Db42ch01/420106.gif
http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume42/Db42ch01/420107.gif
http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume42/Db42ch01/420108.gif
http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume42/Db42ch01/420109.gif
http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume42/Db42ch01/420110.gif
http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume42/Db42ch01/420111.gif

Look how long it took Mystic Buu just to get to freakin Goku and Vegeta. If he was traveling anywhere near lightspeed he should have been in there faces in a second. While in even less panels Superboy prime was in another Galaxy and this is all while being jumped by green lanterns! Heck Baba even had time to escape before Buu got there.

Do you understand how to write a dramatic story? You draw things out to add effect and interest to the story. Had buu gotten there in an instant he kills them both and the series is over.

LouFerignoDemon

11-28-2006, 11:03 AM

This is still going mm...?

You make it sound like a bad thing.

November Rain

11-28-2006, 11:19 AM

probably because it is...

Ultra-Herald9

11-28-2006, 03:03 PM

Do you understand how to write a dramatic story? You draw things out to add effect and interest to the story. Had buu gotten there in an instant he kills them both and the series is over.

But it still shows that these characters aren't as fast as people say they are. It would have made more sense if Goku IT'd them even further away like on the other side of the earth or something.

Ultra-Herald9

11-28-2006, 03:14 PM

The hell??? goku as a child was moving mountains that weigh atleast 5 tons as an 8 year old brat. Not to mention its much harder wearing something heavy than lifting something heavy. After the frieza saga AT no longer cared about that type of stuff he just wanted the series to end but kept going. Saying superboy beats goku with punches is idiotic. Goku would lay superboy out with punches because superboy isnt more durable than a planet and the rogues goku fights and injures are more durable than planet.

WHAT THE F***! First off Goku was 12 at the begning of DBZ and he had trouble moving BOULDERS NOT MOUTAINS AND NOT LIFTING BUT PUSHING! At that same age even post-crisis Superman could have that rock over his head!

And WTF you do understand that Superboy Prime got dragged through a red super giant WHICH IS HIS FREAKIN WEAKNESS(and altough he lost most of his powers he was in perfect condition!!)! GoD you don't know anything about these characters do you!!!???? Heck Normal Superman makes the earth look like nothing in Durability class. That sun feat puts his durability far above a planet!

CBG

11-28-2006, 04:21 PM

Do you understand how to write a dramatic story? You draw things out to add effect and interest to the story. Had buu gotten there in an instant he kills them both and the series is over.

You're the last guy that should be talking about stories, since you can't even use the term 'canon' appropiately.

Gotenks

11-28-2006, 04:22 PM

Goku wins.......

The_Dark_Knight

11-28-2006, 04:28 PM

Why dont we make a real fight?

Bruce Lee Vs. EVERYONE!!

Winner: Bruce Lee =]

CBG

11-28-2006, 04:39 PM

You know, it's actually debatable as to how good Bruce Lee was as a martial artist.

The_Dark_Knight

11-28-2006, 05:22 PM

You know, it's actually debatable as to how good Bruce Lee was as a martial artist.

Bruce Lee was AMAZING! Founder of Jeet Kune Do. He is, to me, a real life super hero. RIP

hmmm... I'll start a thread about him later in the community forms..

LouFerignoDemon

11-28-2006, 05:38 PM

Bruce Lee was AMAZING! Founder of Jeet Kune Do. He is, to me, a real life super hero. RIP

hmmm... I'll start a thread about him later in the community forms..

Not as amazing as Tony Jaa.

The_Dark_Knight

11-28-2006, 05:46 PM

Not as amazing as Tony Jaa.

ok.

Jplaya2023

11-28-2006, 08:21 PM

Why dont we make a real fight?

Bruce Lee Vs. EVERYONE!!

Winner: Bruce Lee =]

bruce lee is in the top 5 martial artist o Veerf all time in fiction

1. Goku/DB verse
2. Ryu/Batman
3. Narutoverse
4. Bruce Lee
5. Bronze Tiger
6. Karate Kidd
7. Richard Dragon
8. Cassandra Cain
9. Oracle (non paralayzed)
10. Deadpool (if u include meta's)

and no one even try to argue its canon and over 90% of comic heads agree

LouFerignoDemon

11-28-2006, 08:22 PM

You forgot Tony Jaa at number one there.

CBG

11-28-2006, 08:27 PM

bruce lee is in the top 5 martial artist o Veerf all time in fiction

Unless you actually investigate him thoroughly, you'll see why this is disputed.

1. Goku/DB verse
2. Ryu/Batman
3. Narutoverse
4. Bruce Lee
5. Bronze Tiger
6. Karate Kidd
7. Richard Dragon
8. Cassandra Cain
9. Oracle (non paralayzed)
10. Deadpool (if u include meta's)

You have no idea what you're talking about. Especially since you put Val below Batman and Ryu.

1. Karate Kid
2. Richard Dragon
3. Cassandra Cain
4. Lady Shiva
5. Bronze Tiger
6. Constantine Drakon
7. Connor Hawke
8. Deathstroke (meta)
9. Batman

That's DC.

And without his healing factor, just skill alone, Deadpool is already outclassed by Shen Kuei and Shang Chi.
And Barbara was nowhere near a top level martial artist prior to being crippled.

and no one even try to argue its canon and over 90% of comic heads agree

Wrong.

You have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about. How many times must you embarass yourself like this?

Jplaya2023

11-28-2006, 08:33 PM

You forgot Tony Jaa at number one there.

Tony Jaa? Got some background. There is not a martial artist in the world that can touch goku

Gotenks

11-28-2006, 08:37 PM

Are you talking about fiction or the real world?

Jplaya2023

11-28-2006, 08:39 PM

Unless you actually investigate him thoroughly, you'll see why this is disputed.

explain how canon is disputed?

You have no idea what you're talking about. Especially since you put Val below Batman and Ryu.

1. Karate Kid
2. Richard Dragon
3. Cassandra Cain
4. Lady Shiva
5. Bronze Tiger
6. Constantine Drakon
7. Connor Hawke
8. Deathstroke (meta)
9. Batman

That's DC.

Dawg i seen batman ninjitsu the **** out of joker, penguin, catwoman, lady shiva etc... Dude is without a doubt the best martial artist in DC. I challenge you CBG, your top 10 martial artist vs mine. I guarantee you heads will like my list better (unless they have an agenda against me, which i'll name the posters as they come along)

And without his healing factor, just skill alone, Deadpool is already outclassed by Shen Kuei and Shang Chi.
And Barbara was nowhere near a top level martial artist prior to being crippled.

Wrong.

You have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about. How many times must you embarass yourself like this?

LMAO @ barbara not being on this list when she was trained by the G.O.A.T. which would be batman. Insanity

CBG

11-28-2006, 08:40 PM

Tony Jaa? Got some background. There is not a martial artist in the world that can touch goku

As if. When Goku can do Karate Kid feats without powers or benefits from being a Saiyan, then you can try to argue. Otherwise, don't try and make up these kind of ridiculous claims.

Jplaya2023

11-28-2006, 08:44 PM

As if. When Goku can do Karate Kid feats without powers or benefits from being a Saiyan, then you can try to argue. Otherwise, don't try and make up these kind of ridiculous claims.

Without power is one thing (basically goku in DB) but how can you say without his heritage? Goku didnt even know he was a saiyan until he was in his 20's. Your being a little unreal dont you think

CBG

11-28-2006, 08:46 PM

explain how canon is disputed?

What? I have to do all the dirty work for you? Look it up yourself, if you want to keep with your elitist attitude.

Dawg i seen batman ninjitsu the **** out of joker, penguin, catwoman, lady shiva etc...

The fact you think Joker, Penguin, and Catwoman are top-tier martial artists labels your serious lack of knowledge.

And Batman defeated a mind-controlled Lady Shiva, who did not act herself.

Dude is without a doubt the best martial artist in DC.

Every comic fan knows that Karate Kid is the undisputed top martial artist in DC. Even the DC staff and writers know this -- it's Val Amorr's character design. Only the insane tries to argue Batman > Karate Kid.

I'll bet you my user account that Karate Kid > Batman. Try and prove me wrong.

I challenge you CBG, your top 10 martial artist vs mine. I guarantee you heads will like my list better (unless they have an agenda against me, which i'll name the posters as they come along)

Top 10 martial artists regarding which universe? Because you have a serious difficulty in differentiating fiction and reality.

Heck, my DC list is far more accurate than your DC list. For pity's sake, you thought Deadpool was DC.

Without power is one thing (basically goku in DB) but how can you say without his heritage? Goku didnt even know he was a saiyan until he was in his 20's. Your being a little unreal dont you think

Karate Kid is only human.

CBG

11-28-2006, 08:50 PM

LMAO @ barbara not being on this list when she was trained by the G.O.A.T. which would be batman. Insanity

Barbara is not even in the top 10 list, compared to the other fighters.

Jplaya2023

11-28-2006, 08:54 PM

What? I have to do all the dirty work for you? Look it up yourself, if you want to keep with your elitist attitude.

the burden of proof is on you, otherwise my canon stays

The fact you think Joker, Penguin, and Catwoman are top-tier martial artists labels your serious lack of knowledge.

when did i indicate they were? I just seen batman karate they azzes to submission thats what im saying

And Batman defeated a mind-controlled Lady Shiva, who did not act herself.

not my problem. He won. Bane defeated a poorly written batman and you scream all day that its canon

Every comic fan knows that Karate Kid is the undisputed top martial artist in DC. Even the DC staff and writers know this -- it's Val Amorr's character design. Only the insane tries to argue Batman > Karate Kid.

I'll bet you my user account that Karate Kid > Batman. Try and prove me wrong.

prove me wrong. I seen batman take out one of the better DC rogues being keodie in the TAS series knowing he could use the touch of death.

Top 10 martial artists regarding which universe? Because you have a serious difficulty in differentiating fiction and reality.

all universes, fiction and non fiction.

Heck, my DC list is far more accurate than your DC list. For pity's sake, you thought Deadpool was DC.

there u go with your elitist attitude "my **** smells better than your stance" You know if you want people to take you seriously on the hype stop the im better than you attitude

Karate Kid is only human.

goku thought he was only human for 20+ years and still considered himself human afterwards

Warhammer

11-28-2006, 08:58 PM

Wowzer.......

Are we even talking about the thread topic anymore?

:dry:

CBG

11-28-2006, 09:06 PM

the burden of proof is on you, otherwise my canon stays

Wow. I have to provide proof, when you rarely bring proof; the times when you do, you misinterpretted greatly.

Read here, for starters.

http://www.martialdirect.com/articles/bruceleept1.htm

when did i indicate they were? I just seen batman karate they azzes to submission thats what im saying

Wow, Batman can defeat all of them. So can a lot of characters.

not my problem. He won. Bane defeated a poorly written batman and you scream all day that its canon

Because it is canon. Batman was crippled. And no, Batman was not written poorly. You'd understand how he was crippled if you actually read the comic, other than your sorry excuse of "non-canon" and "poor writing". You don't even know good writing if it was in front of you.

prove me wrong. I seen batman take out one of the better DC rogues being keodie in the TAS series knowing he could use the touch of death.

First of all, it's Kyodai.

Second of all, Batman wore chest armour against the Touch of Death.

Third of all, Batman TAS is DCAU. It's not DCU.

Fourth of all, look up the Karate Kid wikipedia entry.

Fifth, use the Internet.

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=69734&highlight=Karate
http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155193

all universes, fiction and non fiction.

Skill would matter little here, since some martial artists possess supernatural and otherworldly charateristics and powers.

there u go with your elitist attitude "my **** smells better than your stance" You know if you want people to take you seriously on the hype stop the im better than you attitude

In response to your ridiculous elitist attitude, you hypocrite.

You go around boards on the Internet and post your posts and opinions, majority being borderline ridiculous and insanity. When you are opposed, you simply accuse those that disagree as the same person and simply use the word "canon" like it gives you the illusion of authority.

Mine's far more agreeable and tolerable than your ridiculous claim of Goku > Ryu/Spider-Man>Batman > fiction.

If you want people to take you seriously anywhere in life, drop the kiddy attitude and leave that ridiculous fantasy world of yours.

goku thought he was only human for 20+ years and still considered himself human afterwards

You're not getting it. Karate Kid is only human. Goku is clearly superhuman, prior to his heritage being established.

The_Dark_Knight

11-28-2006, 09:29 PM

hahaha why the hell is everyone argueing? I was just jokeing around and said Bruce Lee and everyone is takeing it seriously.

Ultra-Herald9

11-28-2006, 09:43 PM

hahaha why the hell is everyone argueing? I was just jokeing around and said Bruce Lee and everyone is takeing it seriously.

Dude its not your fault its just Jplaya is extremely stubborn. He is actually beyond stubborn! He actually has some kind of weird fanboy sense of reality! Has he really actually convinced himself that he=canon source?

hippie_hunter

11-28-2006, 09:46 PM

bruce lee is in the top 5 martial artist o Veerf all time in fiction

1. Goku/DB verse
2. Ryu/Batman
3. Narutoverse
4. Bruce Lee
5. Bronze Tiger
6. Karate Kidd
7. Richard Dragon
8. Cassandra Cain
9. Oracle (non paralayzed)
10. Deadpool (if u include meta's)

and no one even try to argue its canon and over 90% of comic heads agree

Cassandra Cain is the #1 martial artist in the DC Universe. Batman is in the lower top 10.

Over 90% of comic heads would disagree with your list!

CBG

11-28-2006, 09:51 PM

Dude its not your fault its just Jplaya is extremely stubborn. He is actually beyond stubborn! He actually has some kind of weird fanboy sense of reality! Has he really actually convinced himself that he=canon source?

He's just another fanboy, albeit one who takes things at the utmost extreme in terms of ridiculousness.

Cassandra Cain is the #1 martial artist in the DC Universe. Batman is in the lower top 10.

Actually, I would have to disagree. Karate Kid is undisputably #1 in the DC universe.

In the modern DCU however, I would put Cassandra Cain at second, and Richard Dragon first.

Over 90% of comic heads would disagree with your list!

Agreed. Not to mention DC writers as well. They'd double-take at someone ranking Batman above Val.

Phenomenal

11-28-2006, 10:12 PM

Fine if fanboys want Goku vs. Superboy Prime thats what they will get....

First off I can't believe that these fanboys even think Goku comes close to Superboy Prime in any catagory! Strength wise you are comparing a character who couldn't even lift 10 tons in his base state to a character who can easily move planets! Superboy would have Goku laid put with a couple punches tops.

Goku's punches DAMAGE characters who can SHRUGG of planet destroying attacks! Goku's punching power is GREATER than SBP! SBP may lift more but a fight is NOT about lifting it is about hitting power and Goku has the stronger punching power.

Also for all this FTL DBZ crap I hear these characters are mighty slow! Even the most powerful characters in the series take forever to go somewhere even at the most urgent situations!
http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume42/Db42ch01/420104.gif

http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume42/Db42ch01/420105.gif
http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume42/Db42ch01/420106.gif
http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume42/Db42ch01/420107.gif
http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume42/Db42ch01/420108.gif
http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume42/Db42ch01/420109.gif
http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume42/Db42ch01/420110.gif
http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume42/Db42ch01/420111.gif

Look how long it took Mystic Buu just to get to freakin Goku and Vegeta. If he was traveling anywhere near lightspeed he should have been in there faces in a second. While in even less panels Superboy prime was in another Galaxy and this is all while being jumped by green lanterns! Heck Baba even had time to escape before Buu got there.

Prove that Super BUU is traveling as fast he can 2) Prove to me what the distance was between them 3)Tell me the size of Dragonballs earth?

CBG

11-28-2006, 10:20 PM

Goku's punches DAMAGE characters who can SHRUGG of planet destroying attacks! Goku's punching power is GREATER than SBP! SBP may lift more but a fight is NOT about lifting it is about hitting power and Goku has the stronger punching power.

Hmm. . . well, there's not much about SBP to go with. But extrapolation from post-Crisis Superman though. . . but it's basing it of from post-Crisis Superman. . .

Prove that Super BUU is traveling as fast he can 2) Prove to me what the distance was between them 3)Tell me the size of Dragonballs earth?

You're not going to try the DB Earth > any other earth arguement again, are you?

Ultra-Herald9

11-28-2006, 10:22 PM

Is he really actually arguing that Batman is better than Val Amorr? The guy has perfected so many Martial arts that he s considered to be Superhuman while Batman is considered only peak human and only in certain area's and not all around like Cap!

Are you actually arguing that just because Batman can fight Joker,Penguin, and Catwoman with only that later being a threat to even mid tier martial artists. While Val can hold his own against the entire fatal five alone.

CBG

11-28-2006, 10:24 PM

Is he really actually arguing that Batman is better than Val Amorr? The guy has perfected so many Martial arts that he s considered to be Superhuman while Batman is considered only peak human and only in certain area's and not all around like Cap!

Yes. As insane as the notion sounds, jplaya2023 argues that Batman > Karate Kid.

He's probably the first poster I ever seen on the net that tries to even continue the arguement, as hopeless as it is.

Are you actually arguing that just because Batman can fight Joker,Penguin, and Catwoman with only that later being a threat to even mid tier martial artists. While Val can hold his own against the entire fatal five alone.

Well, jplaya2023's comic education is very, very little. We add on he confuses the DCAU with the DCU.

Phenomenal

11-28-2006, 10:26 PM

Hmm. . . well, there's not much about SBP to go with. But extrapolation from post-Crisis Superman though. . . but it's basing it of from post-Crisis Superman. . .

You're not going to try the DB Earth > any other earth arguement again, are you?

Well yeah Toriyama's Dragonball Universe is different from our real life universe!

BTW is that you Comic Book Guy?

Ultra-Herald9

11-28-2006, 10:45 PM

Prove that Super BUU is traveling as fast he can 2) Prove to me what the distance was between them 3)Tell me the size of Dragonballs earth?

1.)Buu gave Goku 5 seconds to choose a fusion partner. He knew that the power of Fusion was unpredictable and at that point he wanted no more challenges! He did not want the fusion to happen in the first place as he was saying to Goku just before "alls fair in war" because he was going to kill Goku. So when He sensed a powerful Ki and Goku vanished to that point he wanted to stop them before they fused.

If he didn't and he was as fast as you state he would have just traveled to Goku and Vegeta in less than a millisecond and allowed them to fuse.

2.)Judging by Baba and Vegeta's conversation they were probably abou 100 miles away tops.

3.) I honestly don't know....

But what I do know is that you are comapring a character who has trouble moving ten tons at base state's punches to a character who can bench freaking tectonic plates like nothing, hey guess who gonna have a hell of alot more strength behind their punch?

The_Dark_Knight

11-28-2006, 10:51 PM

What are we all argueing about again????

Ultra-Herald9

11-28-2006, 11:14 PM

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/Adventure_365-16.jpg

I'd REALLY like to see Batman do this...

Ultra-Herald9

11-28-2006, 11:17 PM

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/Adventure_367-17.jpg

Or this...

Ultra-Herald9

11-28-2006, 11:23 PM

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/SuperboytheLegionofSuperheroes245-1.jpg
and this...oh wait he tried that once....
http://img462.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ow1xb.jpg

Sloth7d

11-29-2006, 08:44 AM

Why dont we make a real fight?

Bruce Lee Vs. EVERYONE!!

Winner: Bruce Lee =]
The carnival from DBGT would own him...yeah.

LouFerignoDemon

11-29-2006, 10:07 AM

Batman beating Val or being just as GOOD as Val is as likely as some parapalegic coma patient on life support beating Tony Jaa and Bruce Lee as partners in a fight.

Ultra-Herald9

11-29-2006, 02:04 PM

The carnival from DBGT would own him...yeah.

Thats not fair! That Carnival can regenerate from a single fiber of cotton candy!:dew:

hippie_hunter

11-29-2006, 04:26 PM

He's just another fanboy, albeit one who takes things at the utmost extreme in terms of ridiculousness.
I know, I've debated with him before, tons of times. Have you heard about his Batman Rage Prime

Actually, I would have to disagree. Karate Kid is undisputably #1 in the DC universe.
I'm talking about the modern DC Universe. Karate Kid should be #0 since he is better but in a way doesn't count because he's in the future. Same with Prometheus since he downloads everyone else's moves from his helmet.

In the modern DCU however, I would put Cassandra Cain at second, and Richard Dragon first.
1. Batgirl/Cassandra Cain
2. Black Canary/Dinah Laurel Lance
3. Lady Shiva/Sandra Wu-San
4. Richard Dragon
5. Bronze Tiger/Ben Turner
6. Constantine Drakon
7. Onyx Adams
8. Deathstroke/Slade Wilson
9. Batman/Bruce Wayne
10. Green Arrow/Connor Hawke

*Birds of Prey specifically stated that Lady Shiva is #3 by Prometheus and implies that Black Canary is #2 with the training she received. #1 would be Cassandra Cain who has defeated Shiva twice and she was once the #1 martial artist.

Phenomenal

11-29-2006, 06:10 PM

1.)Buu gave Goku 5 seconds to choose a fusion partner. He knew that the power of Fusion was unpredictable and at that point he wanted no more challenges! He did not want the fusion to happen in the first place as he was saying to Goku just before "alls fair in war" because he was going to kill Goku. So when He sensed a powerful Ki and Goku vanished to that point he wanted to stop them before they fused.

If he didn't and he was as fast as you state he would have just traveled to Goku and Vegeta in less than a millisecond and allowed them to fuse.

That does NOT prove Buu was moving his fastest....

2.)Judging by Baba and Vegeta's conversation they were probably abou 100 miles away tops.

Oh really.... If I wanted your estimated guess I would have asked.

3.) I honestly don't know....

But what I do know is that you are comapring a character who has trouble moving ten tons at base state's punches to a character who can bench freaking tectonic plates like nothing, hey guess who gonna have a hell of alot more strength behind their punch?

Goku's punches DAMAGES characters who can laugh off planet destroying attacks. SBP is going to get KO'd before he realizes it.

LouFerignoDemon

11-29-2006, 06:12 PM

Goku's punches DAMAGES characters who can laugh off planet destroying attacks. SBP is going to get KO'd before he realizes it.

See, you're talking about a guy who was shoved backward through a sun, which has WAY more than enough energy to destroy a planet. Not to mention it was a RED sun, which diminishes his powers at super rapid rates.

Warhammer

11-29-2006, 06:26 PM

Superboy Prime is so powerful.
I can't believe why Goku is even compared to him.

:shrug:

LouFerignoDemon

11-29-2006, 06:29 PM

Hey, they've compared him to Galactus in the past. So I'm not really suprised.

CBG

11-29-2006, 06:31 PM

I know, I've debated with him before, tons of times. Have you heard about his Batman Rage Prime

Yeah. And his Itachi and SSJ4 Gogeta. I'm not impressed in the slightest.

Now, his belief in the SSJ5 due to well-drawn fanart was pushing it. No one can be that dense, but apparently, there is.

I'm talking about the modern DC Universe. Karate Kid should be #0 since he is better but in a way doesn't count because he's in the future. Same with Prometheus since he downloads everyone else's moves from his helmet.

Understandable. As well as the 853rd Century Batman from DC One Million.

1. Cassandra Cain
2. Black Canary
3. Lady Shiva

*Birds of Prey specifically stated that Lady Shiva is #3 by Prometheus and implies that Black Canary is #2 with the training she received. #1 would be Cassandra Cain who has defeated Shiva twice and she was once the #1 martial artist.

Dinah got that much better? I better check up on the BoP issues when I go downtown. . .

Cass was not really confirmed as the top martial artist, but was commented numerous times at being most likely (Secret Files being the most prominent). Shiva being the top martial artist. . . why not Richard Dragon?

4. Richard Dragon
5. Bronze Tiger
6. Constantine Drakon
7. Deathstroke
8. Batman
9. Connor Hawke
10. Judomaster

Judomaster, I never really followed. Curious, why did you place Batman above Connor? Experience?

Phenomenal

11-29-2006, 06:32 PM

See, you're talking about a guy who was shoved backward through a sun, which has WAY more than enough energy to destroy a planet. Not to mention it was a RED sun, which diminishes his powers at super rapid rates.

And... The sun ENERGIZES him and the red sun DIMINISHES his power! That is not a test of durability.

That's almost as bad as saying Superman can survive a blast of Solar Energy Whoopdey doo.:rolleyes:

Warhammer

11-29-2006, 06:33 PM

Hey, they've compared him to Galactus in the past. So I'm not really suprised.

Goku is SO overrated by the fans.
I mean damn, seriously......

:ninja:

LouFerignoDemon

11-29-2006, 06:37 PM

And... The sun ENERGIZES him and the red sun DIMINISHES his power! That is not a test of durability.

That's almost as bad as saying Superman can survive a blast of Solar Energy Whoopdey doo.:rolleyes:

Yeah.

Okay, I just kind of assumed that everybody put two and two together, and really, I'm not in the best of moods tonight. So if people want to argue with me, fine, just fire your neurons simultaneously if you do.

The red sun diminishes Superboy's power. One of his powers is durability. Now, the red sun (stay with me here, remember he has little to no powers anymore, can't even fire heat beams. Just keep that in mind as you read this) can easily destroy any and ALL planets in the solar system, that much energy is in a red sun.

Now, Superboy was not only AROUND a red sun, he was pushed THROUGH a red sun in it's entirety at less than the speed of light, so we're talking a minute or so, since the other Supermen's power was speed, and they were losing powers too.

I mean, from here, it should be straight forward, but if I need to clarify this more, just let me know.

CBG

11-29-2006, 06:37 PM

And... The sun ENERGIZES him and the red sun DIMINISHES his power! That is not a test of durability.

The red sun to the Kryptonian is a regular star to us humans. Why did you think no single Kryptonian manifested Superman's powers when on Krypton with their red sun Rao?

Post-Crisis Superman nearly died from being immersed in a red sun twice against Eradicator.

Superboy-Prime, however. . . originally, he appeared immune in his debut issue. Now, it seems he possesses a high resiliency against red solar radiation (escapes the Speed Force, retains some of his powers in his cage, carving the big bloody S on his chest).

Then we add on the fact that Krypton-Prime literally sank into Rao-Prime.

That's almost as bad as saying Superman can survive a blast of Solar Energy Whoopdey doo.

Depends on which solar energy/radiation. Yellow, white, and blue solar radiation; red saps away his powers and, once Superman is reduced to a normal Kryptonian, would kill him.

Phenomenal

11-29-2006, 06:54 PM

Yeah.

Okay, I just kind of assumed that everybody put two and two together, and really, I'm not in the best of moods tonight. So if people want to argue with me, fine, just fire your neurons simultaneously if you do.

The red sun diminishes Superboy's power. One of his powers is durability. Now, the red sun (stay with me here, remember he has little to no powers anymore, can't even fire heat beams. Just keep that in mind as you read this) can easily destroy any and ALL planets in the solar system, that much energy is in a red sun.

Now, Superboy was not only AROUND a red sun, he was pushed THROUGH a red sun in it's entirety at less than the speed of light, so we're talking a minute or so, since the other Supermen's power was speed, and they were losing powers too.

I mean, from here, it should be straight forward, but if I need to clarify this more, just let me know.

That's not a test of durability.... Or do I need to post where SB (Conners) was giving SBP a physical beat down making him BLEED! I didn't see any planets or solar sytems being rocked then.:rolleyes:

CBG

11-29-2006, 06:57 PM

That's not a test of durability.... Or do I need to post where SB (Conners) was giving SBP a physical beat down making him BLEED! I didn't see any planets or solar sytems being rocked then.

Conner's half-Kryptonian. Though tactile telekinesis was originally his powers, his Kryptonian biology soaked up enough yellow solar energy to manifest the standard Superman power set.

A beatdown doesn't strictly translate to bleeding. Let's not forget the fact that Conner died while Superboy Prime joined Alex in Metropolis with little to no wear and tear.

In addition, one doesn't need to 'rock the solar system or planets' in order to make a DBZ warrior bleed.

hippie_hunter

11-29-2006, 07:15 PM

Understandable. As well as the 853rd Century Batman from DC One Million.
You really can't count people who haven't yet been born :word:

Dinah got that much better? I better check up on the BoP issues when I go downtown. . .
She and Shiva traded places. Dinah took up a training regimine exactly like Shiva's. Not only that she took down an entire army and adopted a little girl.

Cass was not really confirmed as the top martial artist, but was commented numerous times at being most likely (Secret Files being the most prominent). Shiva being the top martial artist. . . why not Richard Dragon?
The way Batgirl has been trained, her status in the modern DCU as the head of the League of Assassins, defeating Shiva twice, who was once considered the most powerful martial artist, I think she has deserved the mantle of #1.

Judomaster, I never really followed.
Actually, I think he should be taken off the list considering that his back got broken by Bane in the Battle of Metropolis

Curious, why did you place Batman above Connor? Experience?
Experience and overall Batman is much more skillful than Connor. He's the DCU's greatest detective (with Tim Drake rapidly catching up), second greatest tactician (after Deathstroke), and second smartest human (after Lex Luthor)

Phenomenal

11-29-2006, 07:22 PM

Conner's half-Kryptonian. Though tactile telekinesis was originally his powers, his Kryptonian biology soaked up enough yellow solar energy to manifest the standard Superman power set.

A beatdown doesn't strictly translate to bleeding. Let's not forget the fact that Conner died while Superboy Prime joined Alex in Metropolis with little to no wear and tear.

In addition, one doesn't need to 'rock the solar system or planets' in order to make a DBZ warrior bleed.

Do you understand what I am saying here.......

The first time they met SBP did a really good job of beating superboy down but couldnt kill him before the other got there. Do you really think other a-list people couldnt beat superboy like that? Next time they fought he couldnt put superboy down and he claimed that time he was TRYING (iirc). Then he killed a bunch of nobody GL's. (oh boy roll out the red carpet) Then he got the %&#! kicked outta him by our superman on a planet full of kryptonite!!! Kryptonite that only AFFECTS our superman...you know how bad that looks?

It's going to take MORE than planet destroying power to beat a DBZ character and that's Power SBP does NOT have.

Goku wins.

hippie_hunter

11-29-2006, 07:54 PM

Do you understand what I am saying here.......
Yes, you don't understand the power of Superboy-Prime

The first time they met SBP did a really good job of beating superboy down but couldnt kill him before the other got there.
The first time they fought, Superboy-Prime had no intention of killing Superboy.

Do you really think other a-list people couldnt beat superboy like that?
Superman can. Supergirl can. Power Girl can. Captain Marvel can. Superboy is half-Kryptonian and because of that he is really powerful. He's taken down A-list heroes such as Robin, Wonder Girl, Kid Flash, Speedy, Cyborg, Beast Boy, and Raven with ease. The Teen Titans are not below the A-list.

Next time they fought he couldnt put superboy down and he claimed that time he was TRYING (iirc).
1. Superboy-Prime fought a much more confident Superboy the second time
2. Superboy was trying to defend the woman he loved and had sex with the night before.
3. Superboy-Prime still managed to kill Superboy.
4. Superboy-Prime defeated Black Adam minutes before with ease.

Then he killed a bunch of nobody GL's. (oh boy roll out the red carpet)
He didn't go up against the newbie Green Lanterns in training, he went up against the experienced Green Lanterns including Guy Gardner (who is Green Lantern #1 in the Green Lantern Honor Corps), Hal Jordan (the man who destroyed the original Green Lantern Corps), John Stewart, Soranik Natu, Green Man, Stel, B'dg, G'nort, Brik, Mogo, and hundreds of others

Then he got the %&#! kicked outta him by our superman on a planet full of kryptonite!!! Kryptonite that only AFFECTS our superman...you know how bad that looks?
1. He killed Superman-2
2. He was beating the s**t out of Superman until his powers went away due to they went through Rao, which is a red star, which can take away a Kryptonian's powers. Without his powers, Superboy-Prime is pretty much just a normal person.

It's going to take MORE than planet destroying power to beat a DBZ character and that's Power SBP does NOT have.
He destroyed Thanagar and was going to destroy Oa. Freaking OA. You know, the headquarters of the Green Lantern Corps and houses the Guardians. He was going to create a new Big Bang and destroy the entire UNIVERSE. So to say that Superboy-Prime doesn't have planet destroying power is non-sense.

Goku wins.
Goku loses, badly.

Warhammer

11-29-2006, 08:00 PM

Do you understand what I am saying here.......

The first time they met SBP did a really good job of beating superboy down but couldnt kill him before the other got there. Do you really think other a-list people couldnt beat superboy like that? Next time they fought he couldnt put superboy down and he claimed that time he was TRYING (iirc). Then he killed a bunch of nobody GL's. (oh boy roll out the red carpet) Then he got the %&#! kicked outta him by our superman on a planet full of kryptonite!!! Kryptonite that only AFFECTS our superman...you know how bad that looks?

It's going to take MORE than planet destroying power to beat a DBZ character and that's Power SBP does NOT have.

Goku wins.

I must've missed something.
In the sake of good debating, PLEASE name things that puts Goku over Superboy Prime or list some things that he has done that Superboy Prime can not do.

Phenomenal

11-29-2006, 08:31 PM

Yes, you don't understand the power of Superboy-Prime

I undrstand that it's NOT enough for Goku.

He's taken down A-list heroes such as Robin, Wonder Girl, Kid Flash, Speedy, Cyborg, Beast Boy, and Raven with ease. The Teen Titans are not below the A-list.

WTF? That's not A-list, killing the c-list TT and DP people he fought wasnt anything anyone with class 100 strength couldnt do.

1. Superboy-Prime fought a much more confident Superboy the second time
2. Superboy was trying to defend the woman he loved and had sex with the night before.
3. Superboy-Prime still managed to kill Superboy.
4. Superboy-Prime defeated Black Adam minutes before with ease.

Its funny how SBP beat Superboy's butt so easily but then when he comes back with the Anti-Monitor armor he struggles when he's trying. The guy came with the Anti-Monitor armor and does he beat A-list people still............not at all.

He didn't go up against the newbie Green Lanterns in training, he went up against the experienced Green Lanterns including Guy Gardner (who is Green Lantern #1 in the Green Lantern Honor Corps), Hal Jordan (the man who destroyed the original Green Lantern Corps), John Stewart, Soranik Natu, Green Man, Stel, B'dg, G'nort,

I wonder........was Kyle and Hal with the Corps fighting SBP because those are the A-list heroes of the GL corps.......hmmmm i think not.

1. He killed Superman-2
2. He was beating the s**t out of Superman until his powers went away due to they went through Rao, which is a red star, which can take away a Kryptonian's powers. Without his powers, Superboy-Prime is pretty much just a normal person.

What does that have to do with him getting his ass kicked by our Superman on a planet full of kryptonite!!! Kryptonite that only AFFECTS our superman...you know how bad that looks?

He destroyed Thanagar and was going to destroy Oa. Freaking OA. You know, the headquarters of the Green Lantern Corps and houses the Guardians. He was going to create a new Big Bang and destroy the entire UNIVERSE. So to say that Superboy-Prime doesn't have planet destroying power is non-sense.

Goku loses, badly.

He didn't destroy any planets the way DBZ can in a single blast!!! He does NOT have planet destroying power and it does NOT take that to kill him.

hippie_hunter

11-29-2006, 08:46 PM

I undrstand that it's NOT enough for Goku.
:rolleyes:

WTF? That's not A-list, killing the c-list TT and DP people he fought wasnt anything anyone with class 100 strength couldnt do.
You said A-list and the current incarnation of the Teen Titans are A-list. Robin, Superboy, Wonder Girl, Kid Flash, Cyborg, Raven and Beast Boy are A-listers.

Its funny how SBP beat Superboy's butt so easily but then when he comes back with the Anti-Monitor armor he struggles when he's trying. The guy came with the Anti-Monitor armor and does he beat A-list people still............not at all.
In the first fight, Superboy didn't have any confidence in himself because he was taken over by Lex Luthor, broke Robin's, his best friend, arm, and hurt Wonder Girl, his girlfriend. Also he really wasn't protecting anybody.

In the second fight, he regained his confidence and was fighting to protect Wonder Girl, Nightwing, and others. When someone is fighting to protect something, they are going to fight harder.

I wonder........was Kyle and Hal with the Corps fighting SBP because those are the A-list heroes of the GL corps.......hmmmm i think not.
Kyle was busy fighting Alexander Luthor with Troia. Hal was fighting Superboy-Prime with the Green Lantern Corps along with other A-list Green Lanterns such as John Stewart and Guy Gardner.

What does that have to do with him getting his ass kicked by our Superman on a planet full of kryptonite!!! Kryptonite that only AFFECTS our superman...you know how bad that looks?
He lost his powers because he went through Rao a red star. Before his powers went away he was kicking the ass of TWO Supermen! WHAT PART OF THAT DO YOU NOT GET!

He didn't destroy any planets the way DBZ can in a single blast!!! He does NOT have planet destroying power and it does NOT take that to kill him.

My god are you dumb. Superboy-Prime has the ability to destroy the ENTIRE UNIVERSE! Do I have to use a drill or something to get that through your head! Superboy-Prime destroyed the planet of Thanagar. He does have planet destroying power!

God I hate Dragonball fanboys! I think they are half the reason why I hate Dragonball.

CBG

11-29-2006, 08:55 PM

You really can't count people who haven't yet been born

Touche.

She and Shiva traded places. Dinah took up a training regimine exactly like Shiva's. Not only that she took down an entire army and adopted a little girl.

Understandable. Though, until I read the comic when I make my trip, I wouldn't say that just because Dinah took up a training regime like Shiva's, doesn't mean that she'll automatically become her equal.

The way Batgirl has been trained, her status in the modern DCU as the head of the League of Assassins, defeating Shiva twice, who was once considered the most powerful martial artist, I think she has deserved the mantle of #1.

Though, Richard Dragon retired from the martial art world while Shiva remained active. Not counting the recent 12 issue series, I don't remember Shiva ever defeating Dragon in combat. However, it's been awhile, so I can be wrong.

Actually, I think he should be taken off the list considering that his back got broken by Bane in the Battle of Metropolis

Well, that's post-Infinite Crisis. I can possibly argue that OYL Cassandra Cain is less skilled than she was prior to OYL. I mean, how can Tim Drake seriously hold his own for that many panels against Cass? Damn you DC, Beechen, Tomasi, and Berganza. . .

Experience and overall Batman is much more skillful than Connor. He's the DCU's greatest detective (with Tim Drake rapidly catching up), second greatest tactician (after Deathstroke), and second smartest human (after Lex Luthor)

Batman was confirmed to be smarter than Mr. Terrific?

I understood it that the "Brotherhood of the Fist" storyline by Chuck Dixon more or less placed Connor Hawke above Batman.

Do you understand what I am saying here.......

The first time they met SBP did a really good job of beating superboy down but couldnt kill him before the other got there.

The problem with your arguement here is that Superboy Prime wasn't planning to kill Connor then, or anyone else for the matter. Look at his reaction when he accidently killed Pantha. Killing would make SBP "like them", and the last thing that he wanted to be was "like them."

Do you really think other a-list people couldnt beat superboy like that? Next time they fought he couldnt put superboy down and he claimed that time he was TRYING (iirc). Then he killed a bunch of nobody GL's. (oh boy roll out the red carpet) Then he got the %&#! kicked outta him by our superman on a planet full of kryptonite!!! Kryptonite that only AFFECTS our superman...you know how bad that looks?

I agree. I don't understand how post-Crisis Superman managed to KO a more powerful alternate version of himself after going through a red sun and two fields of Kryptonite. There are theories, but IMO, nothing short of a DEM was in effect.

It's going to take MORE than planet destroying power to beat a DBZ character and that's Power SBP does NOT have.

Goku wins.

Ki attacks and effects isn't 100% translatable to physical blows.

2. Superboy was trying to defend the woman he loved and had sex with the night before.

Never underestimate the power of a lay. Especially with the whole "Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex" point.

2. He was beating the s**t out of Superman until his powers went away due to they went through Rao, which is a red star, which can take away a Kryptonian's powers. Without his powers, Superboy-Prime is pretty much just a normal person.

I would have to disagree. He obviously retains some of his strength at least -- the savage beating he gave against E2 Superman, his retaliation against our Superman, and his carving the S symbol in his chest.

He destroyed Thanagar and was going to destroy Oa. Freaking OA. You know, the headquarters of the Green Lantern Corps and houses the Guardians. He was going to create a new Big Bang and destroy the entire UNIVERSE. So to say that Superboy-Prime doesn't have planet destroying power is non-sense.

It's not within his power set though; Oa is needed. That's like saying since Mr. Fantastic has the Ultimate Nullifier, he can destroy Galactus. The Ultimate Nullifier is needed.

CBG

11-29-2006, 08:59 PM

I undrstand that it's NOT enough for Goku.

WTF? That's not A-list, killing the c-list TT and DP people he fought wasnt anything anyone with class 100 strength couldnt do.

TT C-list? They're B-list at least.

Its funny how SBP beat Superboy's butt so easily but then when he comes back with the Anti-Monitor armor he struggles when he's trying. The guy came with the Anti-Monitor armor and does he beat A-list people still............not at all.

Though, remember, the boy has serious issues with "being the Superboy" and "growing up to be Superman". Mental factor, if anything.

I wonder........was Kyle and Hal with the Corps fighting SBP because those are the A-list heroes of the GL corps.......hmmmm i think not.

Hal was there. Check Infinite Crisis #7.

What does that have to do with him getting his ass kicked by our Superman on a planet full of kryptonite!!! Kryptonite that only AFFECTS our superman...you know how bad that looks?

Agreed. There's not much that the current theories can cover, but it ridiculously happen, and we have to accept it. Why couldn't you write a better ending to the fight, Geoff Johns. . .

He didn't destroy any planets the way DBZ can in a single blast!!! He does NOT have planet destroying power and it does NOT take that to kill him.

And Frieza died by a sword that can destroy the planet.

Not to mention none of the DBZ warriors strength of their blows possess such power. When has that been indicated?

hippie_hunter

11-29-2006, 09:02 PM

Batman was confirmed to be smarter than Mr. Terrific?
Mr. Terrific says that he's the third smartest person in the world. He has a friendly rivalry with Batman. And if you take a look at the things Batman has done such as inventing red kryptonite, being one of only two people capable of synthesizing kryptonite, inventing Brother Mk.1, developing nanotechnology, building various batmobiles, being the DCU's second greatest human tactician, possibly the third greatest escape artist, capable in the field of medicine just like Mr. Terrific, developing T-spheres, etc, it's safe to assume that he'd consider Batman to be #2.

CBG

11-29-2006, 09:06 PM

Mr. Terrific says that he's the third smartest person in the world. He has a friendly rivalry with Batman. And if you take a look at the things Batman has done such as inventing red kryptonite,

Well, this is completely new to me. Is that post-Crisis, or has it been that way since the Silver Age?

being one of only two people capable of synthesizing kryptonite, inventing Brother Mk.1,

Understandable.

developing nanotechnology,

You sure Bruce was the first to invent it? Or do you mean developing it and advancing it at an incredible rate? I thought Ray Palmer was the nanotech expert.

building various batmobiles,

Though, Harold mainly did that, prior to Hush.

being the DCU's second greatest human tactician, possibly the third greatest escape artist, capable in the field of medicine just like Mr. Terrific, developing T-spheres,

Bruce developed the T-Spheres?

etc, it's safe to assume that he'd consider Batman to be #2.

What would the other 3 be for top 5, in your opinion?

hippie_hunter

11-29-2006, 09:19 PM

Well, this is completely new to me. Is that post-Crisis, or has it been that way since the Silver Age?
It's in his Wikipedia bio, and I even Googled it to make sure. He says that he's the third smartest person.

I think Mr. Terrific's athiesm hinders his intelligence just a tad. With a universe consisting of the Greek gods, the Egyptian gods, Zauriel, the Spectre, etc. it's just stubborness and impractical to deny existance of Gods.

You sure Bruce was the first to invent it? Or do you mean developing it and advancing it at an incredible rate? I thought Ray Palmer was the nanotech expert.
He certainly didn't invent it! But he's certainly developed some for his own personal use, such as burning the Martian Manhunter.

Though, Harold mainly did that, prior to Hush.
He's made the first ones before Harold came along and he's even building some right now.

Bruce developed the T-Spheres?
He's made some, he stole the idea from Mr. Terrific, who considered it an honor. Read the Obsidian Age, it's a good read.

What would the other 3 be for top 5, in your opinion?
I think Deathstroke is worthy considering how resourceful he is. Robin is getting to be right there. Oracle maybe? The late Ted Kord? Ray Palmer definetely deserves to be recognized. If we include non-human entities, Darkseid would be #1.

CBG

11-29-2006, 09:23 PM

It's in his Wikipedia bio, and I even Googled it to make sure. He says that he's the third smartest person.

No, I mean Batman inventing Red Kryptonite. Was that since Pre-Crisis or post-Crisis?

I think Mr. Terrific's athiesm hinders his intelligence just a tad. With a universe consisting of the Greek gods, the Egyptian gods, Zauriel, the Spectre, etc. it's just stubborness and impractical to deny existance of Gods.

Agreed. The faith he has is "in his team".

He certainly didn't invent it! But he's certainly developed some for his own personal use, such as burning the Martian Manhunter.

Ah.

He's made the first ones before Harold came along and he's even building some right now.

Yep. Although, Harold was better at it.

He's made some, he stole the idea from Mr. Terrific, who considered it an honor. Read the Obsidian Age, it's a good read.

I would, and other comics, if I had the money. . . damn.

I think Deathstroke is worthy considering how resourceful he is. Robin is getting to be right there. Oracle maybe? The late Ted Kord? If we include non-human entities, Darkseid would be #1.

Hmm. . .

hippie_hunter

11-29-2006, 09:33 PM

No, I mean Batman inventing Red Kryptonite. Was that since Pre-Crisis or post-Crisis?
Post-Crisis. Batman's red kryptonite is basically a non-lethal, more painful version of normal kryptonite

Agreed. The faith he has is "in his team".
I'd like to see Mr. Terrific confront God or some god someday

Yep. Although, Harold was better at it.
It's kinda hard to compete with the more modern batmobiles

I would, and other comics, if I had the money. . . damn.
:csad:

Phenomenal

11-29-2006, 09:34 PM

You said A-list and the current incarnation of the Teen Titans are A-list. Robin, Superboy, Wonder Girl, Kid Flash, Cyborg, Raven and Beast Boy are A-listers.

They are BELOW A-list.

In the first fight, Superboy didn't have any confidence in himself because he was taken over by Lex Luthor, broke Robin's, his best friend, arm, and hurt Wonder Girl, his girlfriend. Also he really wasn't protecting anybody.

In the second fight, he regained his confidence and was fighting to protect Wonder Girl, Nightwing, and others. When someone is fighting to protect something, they are going to fight harder.

I didn't ask for your excuses,:rolleyes: none of that still changes the fact that SBP still struggled with SB.

Kyle was busy fighting Alexander Luthor with Troia. Hal was fighting Superboy-Prime with the Green Lantern Corps along with other A-list Green Lanterns such as John Stewart and Guy Gardner.

Yeah I just rechecked it, they are in their. My bad.

He lost his powers because he went through Rao a red star. Before his powers went away he was kicking the ass of TWO Supermen! WHAT PART OF THAT DO YOU NOT GET!

Since you want to ignore it, So... I'll ask again....What does that have to do with him getting his ass kicked by our Superman on a planet full of kryptonite!!! Kryptonite that only AFFECTS our superman...you know how bad that looks?

My god are you dumb. Superboy-Prime has the ability to destroy the ENTIRE UNIVERSE! Do I have to use a drill or something to get that through your head! Superboy-Prime destroyed the planet of Thanagar. He does have planet destroying power!

God I hate Dragonball fanboys! I think they are half the reason why I hate Dragonball.

Your chatting garbage! Superboy-prime can NOT destroy the universe nor did he destroy a planet (Thanagar) unless you need an new prescription? I recommend lenscrafters) Superboy-prime Through pushing planets, he even changed where the center of the universe was located-Thus starting an intestellar war between two rival alien civilisations-Infinite Crisis #4/ Rann-Thanagar War Special Thus starting an intestellar war between two rival alien civilisations-Infinite Crisis #4/ Rann-Thanagar War Special.

Wow great destroying power.:rolleyes: SBP is not beating Goku who has faced Solar System Busters and a guy who demolished a Galaxy, Hell even one of Goku's weaker Rogues can STOP time. Goku wins this.

CBG

11-29-2006, 09:44 PM

They are BELOW A-list.

Well, the OMACs disagree with Superboy and Wonder Girl. Infinite Crisis #6, they were classify as alpha subjects (threats).

I didn't ask for your excuses, none of that still changes the fact that SBP still struggled with SB.

Well, there is the mental torment. You clearly see the stutter. One can't deny his issues over being Superboy and Superman. We all know that Superboy Prime is emotionally unstable. That said, not only would it arguably hinder oneself, but it can be taken advantage of.

Yeah I just rechecked it, they are in their. My bad.

Since you want to ignore it, So... I'll ask again....What does that have to do with him getting his ass kicked by our Superman on a planet full of kryptonite!!! Kryptonite that only AFFECTS our superman...you know how bad that looks?

Yes, we all know. I chalk it up to bad writing; with regards to the theory, I rather not explain the theory of how our Superman won.

Your chatting garbage! Superboy-prime can NOT destroy the universe nor did he destroy a planet (Thanagar) unless you need an new prescription? I recommend lenscrafters) Superboy-prime Through pushing planets, he even changed where the center of the universe was located-Thus starting an intestellar war between two rival alien civilisations-Infinite Crisis #4/ Rann-Thanagar War Special Thus starting an intestellar war between two rival alien civilisations-Infinite Crisis #4/ Rann-Thanagar War Special.

Yeah, he moved the planets throughout the universe, not just Thanagar, if I remember right.

Wow great destroying power. SBP is not beating a guy who has faced Solar System Busters a guy who demolished a Galaxy, Hell even one of Goku's weaker Rogues can STOP time.

Since when was it mentioned in the manga that Kid Buu destroyed the galaxy?

And so what about Guldo? He has to take a breath first; super speed can easily counter that. Not to mention that he best offense against Krillin and Gohan was a sharpened tree, Guldo's can't do much.

CBG

11-29-2006, 09:47 PM

Post-Crisis. Batman's red kryptonite is basically a non-lethal, more painful version of normal kryptonite

Ah.

I'd like to see Mr. Terrific confront God or some god someday

He'll probably say a cosmic being.

It's kinda hard to compete with the more modern batmobiles

Understandable.

hippie_hunter

11-29-2006, 09:49 PM

They are BELOW A-list.
In prominence, they are not below A-list. The Teen Titans led the recovery efforts in Bludhaven. Former members include A-listers such as Nightwing, the Flash, Donna Troy, the current Wonder Woman, and Cyborg who is being considered for Justice League membership.

I didn't ask for your excuses,:rolleyes: none of that still changes the fact that SBP still struggled with SB.
His second fight with Superboy didn't even last nearly as long as his first fight. Also it does change things because someone who has confidence protecting something is way more harder to fight someone sulking around doing nothing. Conner was prepared for a fight the second time! In the end, Superboy-Prime killed him.

Since you want to ignore it, So... I'll ask again....What does that have to do with him getting his ass kicked by our Superman on a planet full of kryptonite!!! Kryptonite that only AFFECTS our superman...you know how bad that looks?

Superman barely beat Superboy-Prime. That wasn't an ass beating when Superman himself was almost killed and when Superman-2 was killed.

Your chatting garbage! Superboy-prime can NOT destroy the universe
He was flying to Oa to do such a thing.

nor did he destroy a planet (Thanagar) unless you need an new prescription? I recommend lenscrafters) Superboy-prime Through pushing planets, he even changed where the center of the universe was located-Thus starting an intestellar war between two rival alien civilisations-Infinite Crisis #4/ Rann-Thanagar War Special Thus starting an intestellar war between two rival alien civilisations-Infinite Crisis #4/ Rann-Thanagar War Special.

Wow great destroying power.:rolleyes: SBP is not beating Goku who has faced Solar System Busters and a guy who demolished a Galaxy, Hell even one of Goku's weaker Rogues can STOP time.
His abilities burnt Thanagar to a crisp and made it unihabitable. That's destroyed if you ask me. If he wanted to he could have pushed it directly into Polaris.

Goku wins this.
That's the Dragonball fanboy speaking. Logically Superboy-Prime would rape anyone in a one-on-one fight. That's how he was created!

CBG

11-29-2006, 10:00 PM

In prominence, they are not below A-list. The Teen Titans led the recovery efforts in Bludhaven. Former members include A-listers such as Nightwing, the Flash, Donna Troy, the current Wonder Woman, and Cyborg who is being considered for Justice League membership.

True, but prominence doesn't necessarily determine capability. Batman's an alpha subject. However, there's not much he can do; he's still a human.

He was flying to Oa to do such a thing.

He needed Oa for the Big Bang. He needed to fly right through it. Without Oa, he couldn't have destroy the universe.

His abilities burnt Thanagar to a crisp and made it unihabitable. That's destroyed if you ask me. If he wanted to he could have pushed it directly into Polaris.

That's the Dragonball fanboy speaking. Logically Superboy-Prime would rape anyone in a one-on-one fight. That's how he was created!

Not anyone. There are quite a number of characters that can beat SBP.

hippie_hunter

11-29-2006, 10:08 PM

True, but prominence doesn't necessarily determine capability. Batman's an alpha subject. However, there's not much he can do; he's still a human.
Batman was Alpha because he was the Creator and was the one most likely to stop Brother Eye. Otherwise I think he would have been Beta like Nightwing.

He needed Oa for the Big Bang. He needed to fly right through it. Without Oa, he couldn't have destroy the universe.
True, but destroying the universe is destroying the universe after all.

Not anyone. There are quite a number of characters that can beat SBP.
Godlike beings like the Spectre and Darkseid maybe. I'm talking about non-godlike beings.

Jplaya2023

11-29-2006, 10:08 PM

the only A list heroes in the marvel and DC worlds are batman and spiderman.

CBG

11-29-2006, 10:11 PM

Godlike beings like the Spectre and Darkseid maybe. I'm talking about non-godlike beings.

Actually, even so, there are some non-godlike characters that can do it.

the only A list heroes in the marvel and DC worlds are batman and spiderman.

No, there's actually quite a lot more.

In terms of international and cultural popularity and significance, Batman and Superman for DC, and Spider-Man for Marvel.

Jplaya2023

11-29-2006, 10:23 PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v255/jplaya2023/batmandodginghulk.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v255/jplaya2023/batmanowninghulk.jpg

I'd like to see karate kid being able to dodge hulk blows and damage him in the way batman did

Gotenks

11-29-2006, 10:25 PM

Is Superboy prime stronger or even with post-crisis Superman?
Sorry for my lack of knowledge.:csad:

CBG

11-29-2006, 10:26 PM

I'd like to see karate kid being able to dodge hulk blows and damage him in the way batman did

A) Non-canon. The only canon crossover is JLA/Avengers.

B) Karate Kid can easily replicate the same thing.

Didn't you learn from the links I provided you? Unless you ignored it, which you most likely did, knowing you.

C) Karate Kid can do way better. Batman can't even do half the things Karate Kid can do.

Here, and learn about Karate Kid, jplaya2023, in case you missed it.

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=69734&highlight=Karate
http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155193

Is Superboy prime stronger or even with post-crisis Superman?
Sorry for my lack of knowledge.

Stronger. He's currently the strongest alternate incarnation of Superman in the modern day DCU (the other being Ultraman, and Bizarro, to a lesser extent)

CBG

11-29-2006, 10:39 PM

To quote a few

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/KarateKid02-07.jpg
Major Disaster directs a meteorite toward Val. He shatters it with a kick.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/KarateKid02-15.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/KarateKid02-16.jpg
Val cancels an earthquake, closes a fissure which threatens to split Manhattan Island in half, collapses the energy field which caused it, and destroys the machine used to create it, all by kicking the ground once. This scene also has the greatest simile I've ever heard, in which an energy field is compared to "a herd of frightened lemmings fleeing an ungracious sea." Isn't that beautiful?

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/LSH121-14.jpg
Val vs. the Emerald Empress, within a larger Legion vs. Fatal Five battle. Even before she got the Eye, the reboot Empress was an incredibly skilled mass-murderer who "knew a thousand ways to kill a hundred species with her bare hands." Probably Lady Shiva-class or above. In the last page, Val hears her heartbeat from a kilometer away, tracks her by it, lets her stalk him, then casually takes her out in one shot.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/Untitled-Scanned-13.jpg
Just after this, Val gets Jo’s attention by clearing 5 meters of snow and ice—70,000 or 80,000 tons, he says—off the Sydney Opera House with one punch. Probably the most impressive thing about this is that the Opera House itself is not noticeably damaged. “Control.”

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/Untitled-Scanned-25.jpg
A nice one from issue 8: Val punches full-sized Micro Lad (who stands 60 feet high and weighs about 100 tons) through the outer wall of Legion Headquarters and hundreds of feet away.

Karate Kid > Batman. Only the insane tries to argue otherwise.

Jplaya2023

11-29-2006, 11:21 PM

thats cool i guess *shrugs*

batman owning the hulk, superman, bane, croc, penguin, joker, etc.. etc.. >>>>>>> karate kid doing stupid things

canon facts cant be argued

CBG

11-29-2006, 11:29 PM

thats cool i guess *shrugs*

batman owning the hulk, superman, bane, croc, penguin, joker, etc.. etc.. >>>>>>> karate kid doing stupid things

canon facts cant be argued

Your arguement is pathetic. Let us examine in-depth.

thats cool i guess *shrugs*

Far better than what Batman can do by himself; his own physical body, and nothing else.

batman owning the hulk,

Non-canon. Again, JLA/Avengers is the only canon crossover.

superman,

A) Dark Knight Returns is non-canon.

B) Batman never defeated Superman in the DC mainstream. Provide scans, if you can. Canon scans to the DC mainstream continuity, not the non-canon "Dark Knight Returns" and the non-canonlike.

bane,

After Bane gone clean from Venom. The first time, Batman was crippled. Venom Bane eventually lost to Jean-Paul Valley (aka Azrael) as Batman, who replaced Bruce.

croc, penguin, joker, etc.. etc..

Weak arguement. Tons of other characters defeats the said characters with ease.

>>>>>>> karate kid doing stupid things

Karate Kid's 'stupid things' > anything Batman is capable of doing with his own physical body alone.

Fact: Karate Kid > Batman.

Heck, I dare you to e-mail DC and ask them who would win in a martial arts fight. I'll bet you my user account that Karate Kid would definitely win.

And I surmise that even if you take me on my bet, you'd fabricate the e-mail or would not understand a sarcastic reply from DC.

canon facts cant be argued

Examined, dismantled, and sucessfully rebutted.

We add on to the fact you misinterpret and use non-canon, and obscure the truth.

Ultra-Herald9

11-30-2006, 06:54 AM

For one thing I'd like to say that I think that Batman and Mr.Terrific's intelligence are on par with each other. Its seems that people are forgeting that MT had technology that rendered him completely invisible to not onlt the O.M.A.C.s but to the very Brother eye itself.

Second I REALLY can't believe that DBZ fanboys are arguing that Goku can beat Superboy Prime and he is using his fight with Superboy as an example. FIRST OFF SUPERBOY(conner) IS NEAR COSMIC IN POWER!!!!!! Not only does he have normal freaking Kryptonian powers but Telekintic ones too! That means he can use these powers in unison and practically match the strength feats of Superman himself!

The Phenomenol is one of the most biast poster I'd ever seen! I mean WTF HE CONSTANTLY SPOUTS GARBAGE!!!! SUPERMAN FREAKING GOING THROUGH A YELLOW SUN IS A FEAT OF DURABILITY!!! ITS LIKE HAVING TRILLIONS OF HYDROGEN BOMBS EXPLODING IN YOUR FACE, WITH ELECTROMAGNETIC FORCES THAT CAN RIP PLANETS TO PIECES, AND GRAVITY THAT IS MILLIONS OF TIMES THAT OF EARTH WHILE GOKU COULD BARELY TAKE 1000X!

(I'll post proff of Superman not always being able to survive the sun later!)

Ultra-Herald9

11-30-2006, 07:08 AM

Hmmm....so you are saying that for someone to be able to defeat a Dragon Ball Z character they have to be able to shrug of Planet destroying stuff. Hmmm you mean like......this
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/4759/boomsupes22ez9ks.jpg

and If Goku can laugh that ***** off then he really should have survived this....
http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume35/Db35ch04/350411.gif

http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume35/Db35ch04/350412.gif

http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume35/Db35ch04/350413.gif

And not only do you lack knowledge of Cmics but of DBZ also! You seem to think that every blast fired in Dragon Ball is planet destroying when they are not! Even some of the most powerful blasts merely rock the earth! If what you said was true then earth would be toast if this ever happened...
http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume40/Db40ch03/400304.gif

http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume40/Db40ch03/400305.gif

http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume40/Db40ch03/400306.gif

http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume40/Db40ch03/400307.gif

Jplaya2023

11-30-2006, 11:25 AM

Your arguement is pathetic. Let us examine in-depth.

no you cant stand the canon so close your Comic Book,...... Guy

Far better than what Batman can do by himself; his own physical body, and nothing else.

No, batman doesnt need to do stupid things to prove a point

beating hulk and superman >>>> anything karate kid can do

Non-canon. Again, JLA/Avengers is the only canon crossover.

negative

A) Dark Knight Returns is non-canon.

not my problem

B) Batman never defeated Superman in the DC mainstream. Provide scans, if you can. Canon scans to the DC mainstream continuity, not the non-canon "Dark Knight Returns" and the non-canonlike.

dark knight returns

After Bane gone clean from Venom. The first time, Batman was crippled. Venom Bane eventually lost to Jean-Paul Valley (aka Azrael) as Batman, who replaced Bruce.

non canon/bad writing crippling

Weak arguement. Tons of other characters defeats the said characters with ease.

care to name those chars

Karate Kid's 'stupid things' > anything Batman is capable of doing with his own physical body alone.

nope batman is peak human/ near meta human dude. Karate Kid is a just a man who knows martial arts. Batman is a iconic figure capable of world wide destruction

Fact: Karate Kid > Batman.

speculation

Heck, I dare you to e-mail DC and ask them who would win in a martial arts fight. I'll bet you my user account that Karate Kid would definitely win.

their bias

And I surmise that even if you take me on my bet, you'd fabricate the e-mail or would not understand a sarcastic reply from DC.

no canon truth makes your eyes bleed and your karate kid fanboyism quiver

Examined, dismantled, and sucessfully rebutted.

nope filled with ramblings and your personal feelings instead of smart, logical, canon responses as given by myself

We add on to the fact you misinterpret and use non-canon, and obscure the truth.

no some canon is interprited differently than others depending on the writing

hippie_hunter

11-30-2006, 11:51 AM

No canon is not interpreted differently. Canon is canon and the only way to change it around is to have a continuity-changing event or just simply ignore it.

The Dark Knight Returns is an Elseworlds story. ELSEWORLDS!!!! Here's a list of Elseworld's titles and you will find the Dark Knight Returns:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Elseworlds_publications

Ultra-Herald9

11-30-2006, 11:58 AM

no some canon is interprited differently than others depending on the writing

Hmmm. If Dark Knight returns is canon then why isn't Batman over 50 years old? Why isn't Joker dead? Why isn't Robin a 13 year old girl?:huh:

hippie_hunter

11-30-2006, 12:15 PM

no you cant stand the canon so close your Comic Book,...... Guy
No, you just don't know how to interpret canon. Elseworlds stories and intercompany crossovers are not canon!

beating hulk and superman >>>> anything karate kid can do
Except Batman has never beat Hulk and Superman in canon. In canon Superman has defeated Batman twice (Lex Luthor: Man of Steel and the OMAC Project/Sacrifice). In Hush, Batman admitted that if Superman were not holding back attempting to resist Poison Ivy's control, he'd be dead.

negative
Intercompany crossovers are not canon, and even JLA/Avengers is up for debate, it's the only one that is even close to being canon.

not my problem
Yes it is because you keep bringing it up as canon.

dark knight returns
This is why I f**king hate The Dark Knight Returns the most, because pathetic Batman fanboys like you keep bringing it up as an excuse for Batman to defeat Superman (that and the story is completely overrated). The Dark Knight Returns is an Elseworlds story and is not in canon. And if it were ever in canon, too many events have happened to where it no longer is in canon such as Sarah Essen still being alive (she was killed by the Joker in No Man's Land), Tim Drake's non-existance, the Soviet Union no longer even exists, Ronald Reagan is dead, Two-Face has just recently come back, Lana Lang is not a TV reporter (she's been the First Lady, CEO of LexCorp, etc.)

non canon/bad writing crippling
Knightfall is in canon. The events of it have been mentioned several times such as No Man's Land and Hush. It makes sense that Bane defeated Batman with ease considering how exhausted he was. It wasn't bad writing, it was sensible writing showing how human Batman truely is. Now it was enjoyable or not is the question.

care to name those chars
Batman's rogues gallery barely consist of physical threats. Batman has beaten them down with rather ease. The fact that they are not much of physical threats, they tend to remain in the Batman comics and rarely stray outside of them. The only ones that are some threat to the world are the Joker (considering the acts he's done), the Penguin (major arms dealer), Ra's al Ghul (dead now), Nyssa Raatko (she's dead too), and Talia al Ghul (leader of a major terrorist organization).

Nearly any hero can defeat Batman's entire rogues gallery. Superman, Wonder Woman, the Flash, Green Lantern, Aquaman....You get the point?

nope batman is peak human/ near meta human dude. Karate Kid is a just a man who knows martial arts. Batman is a iconic figure capable of world wide destruction
Batman is not a near-metahuman. He is the peak of human perfection. And because he is human he is often written as being wrong and defeated by those who are better than him or by lucky chance. He is human and things like that happen to mere mortals like us.

Karate Kid lives 1000 years in the future. He knows every martial art ever developed. He knows martial arts that haven't even been invented yet. In a simple hand to hand martial arts fight, Batman would lose.

speculation
As a fighter Karate Kid is the one with the major upper hand. It is not speculation. It is fact. In other areas though...Batman would probally have the upper hand.

their bias
How is DC biased, they're the ones who publish the damn comics for Christ sakes!

no canon truth makes your eyes bleed and your karate kid fanboyism quiver
Your pathetic fanboyism does not give you the right to call others fanboys as an insult. And saying that Karate Kid is a better fighter than Batman is not fanboyism.

nope filled with ramblings and your personal feelings instead of smart, logical, canon responses as given by myself

Your responses have been retarded, illogical, and using Elseworld stories as fact. You deny what is canon is canon and you say what is not canon is canon. You do not posess any knowledge required to be even considered an expert in DC canon.

no some canon is interprited differently than others depending on the writing
No canon is not interpreted differently. Canon is canon and the only way to change it around is to have a continuity-changing event or just simply ignore it.

The Dark Knight Returns is an Elseworlds story. ELSEWORLDS!!!! Here's a list of Elseworld's titles and you will find the Dark Knight Returns:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s_publications (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Elseworlds_publications)

Ultra-Herald9

11-30-2006, 12:28 PM

No, you just don't know how to interpret canon. Elseworlds stories and intercompany crossovers are not canon!

Except Batman has never beat Hulk and Superman in canon. In canon Superman has defeated Batman twice (Lex Luthor: Man of Steel and the OMAC Project/Sacrifice). In Hush, Batman admitted that if Superman were not holding back attempting to resist Poison Ivy's control, he'd be dead.

Intercompany crossovers are not canon, and even JLA/Avengers is up for debate, it's the only one that is even close to being canon.

Yes it is because you keep bringing it up as canon.

This is why I f**king hate The Dark Knight Returns the most, because pathetic Batman fanboys like you keep bringing it up as an excuse for Batman to defeat Superman (that and the story is completely overrated). The Dark Knight Returns is an Elseworlds story and is not in canon. And if it were ever in canon, too many events have happened to where it no longer is in canon such as Sarah Essen still being alive (she was killed by the Joker in No Man's Land), Tim Drake's non-existance, the Soviet Union no longer even exists, Ronald Reagan is dead, Two-Face has just recently come back, Lana Lang is not a TV reporter (she's been the First Lady, CEO of LexCorp, etc.)

Knightfall is in canon. The events of it have been mentioned several times such as No Man's Land and Hush. It makes sense that Bane defeated Batman with ease considering how exhausted he was. It wasn't bad writing, it was sensible writing showing how human Batman truely is. Now it was enjoyable or not is the question.

Batman's rogues gallery barely consist of physical threats. Batman has beaten them down with rather ease. The fact that they are not much of physical threats, they tend to remain in the Batman comics and rarely stray outside of them. The only ones that are some threat to the world are the Joker (considering the acts he's done), the Penguin (major arms dealer), Ra's al Ghul (dead now), Nyssa Raatko (she's dead too), and Talia al Ghul (leader of a major terrorist organization).

Nearly any hero can defeat Batman's entire rogues gallery. Superman, Wonder Woman, the Flash, Green Lantern, Aquaman....You get the point?

Batman is not a near-metahuman. He is the peak of human perfection. And because he is human he is often written as being wrong and defeated by those who are better than him or by lucky chance. He is human and things like that happen to mere mortals like us.

Karate Kid lives 1000 years in the future. He knows every martial art ever developed. He knows martial arts that haven't even been invented yet. In a simple hand to hand martial arts fight, Batman would lose.

As a fighter Karate Kid is the one with the major upper hand. It is not speculation. It is fact. In other areas though...Batman would probally have the upper hand.

How is DC biased, they're the ones who publish the damn comics for Christ sakes!

Your pathetic fanboyism does not give you the right to call others fanboys as an insult. And saying that Karate Kid is a better fighter than Batman is not fanboyism.

Your responses have been retarded, illogical, and using Elseworld stories as fact. You deny what is canon is canon and you say what is not canon is canon. You do not posess any knowledge required to be even considered an expert in DC canon.

No canon is not interpreted differently. Canon is canon and the only way to change it around is to have a continuity-changing event or just simply ignore it.

The Dark Knight Returns is an Elseworlds story. ELSEWORLDS!!!! Here's a list of Elseworld's titles and you will find the Dark Knight Returns:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s_publications (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Elseworlds_publications)

*clears throat*.......
OWNED!!!
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/2054/justice2425005custom0gm7xq.jpg

The_Dark_Knight

11-30-2006, 12:30 PM

^^^^ Thats awesome. isnt that Alex Ross artwork?

Ultra-Herald9

11-30-2006, 12:31 PM

^^^^ Thats awesome. isnt that Alex Ross artwork?

Yessirry Buddy.*tilts hat*

hippie_hunter

11-30-2006, 02:37 PM

*clears throat*.......
OWNED!!!
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/2054/justice2425005custom0gm7xq.jpg

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p186/hippie_hunter/PWN3D.jpg?t=1164919004

Ultra-Herald9

11-30-2006, 02:47 PM

^simply awesome.

CBG

11-30-2006, 03:53 PM

no you cant stand the canon so close your Comic Book,...... Guy

No, just your sad delusions.

No, batman doesnt need to do stupid things to prove a point

Batman stands no chanace against Karate Kid.

beating hulk and superman >>>> anything karate kid can do

Hulk was non-canon. The only crossover is JLA/Avengers.

Never beaten Superman in the DCU mainstream. Ever.

negative

Positive. And agreed upon by every other learned fan. And DC.

not my problem

Certainly is, actually. The majority of your comic education is non-canon -- they're not even relevant to the mainstream story and continuity.

dark knight returns

Non-canon.

Batman right now isn't pushing his 50s.

Jason Todd is Red Hood.

Definitely non-canon. Try again.

non canon/bad writing crippling

Canon. And no, it's not bad writing. Read the damn story yourself as to see HOW Batman was crippled.

care to name those chars

What? Against the Joker, the Penguin, and Catwoman?

Captain America, similar character archetypes, entire races, and cosmics. That's going into the trillions already.

nope batman is peak human/ near meta human dude. Karate Kid is a just a man who knows martial arts. Batman is a iconic figure capable of world wide destruction

You're not getting it.

Karate Kid is doing all that with no external help. That means, no resources from the Batcave, or utility belt, or wealth, or gadgets. Just himself, a ring that provides flight (the norm for all Legion members) and his 30th Century martial arts.

speculation

Like I said, I dare you to e-mail DC and ask who'd win. I'll bet you my user account that they'll agree with me.

their bias

No, you're just like a child who doesn't want to grow up and face the truth that reality is a lot more harsher than fantasy.

no canon truth makes your eyes bleed and your karate kid fanboyism quiver

No, all you present is misinterpretations and delusions. I present facts, logic, evidence, and reasoning. Something that's seemingly alien to you throughout the entirety of your e-life.

nope filled with ramblings and your personal feelings instead of smart, logical, canon responses as given by myself

Wrong. It's the other way around.

You're just in denial.

no some canon is interprited differently than others depending on the writing

No, that's just you misinterpreting.

Like I said. Go ahead.

Go on multiple forums, ask comic book shop guys, e-mail DC. Heck, even Marvel.

You'll get two answers.

Karate Kid wins.

And stop being a Batman fanboy.