Script Reviews and Discussion

[BIGGUN]

Came across this at aint it cool news...Harry says he read the production script and gives a brief review: http://www.aintitcoolnews.com/display.cgi?id=19995

"Hey folks, Harry here -- just recently laid my meaty paws upon the production draft of GHOST RIDER. Written By David Goyer with Revisions by Shane Salerno and the most recent revisions coming from Mark Steven Johnson. Personally - I absolutely love David Goyer's hard-R GHOST RIDER script, and when the orders from everywhere came down to making it PG-13 -- well I knew many things would be missing. Upon reading this script though - it has become far more fanciful. Set in Texas (albeit shot in Australia - aka the smaller less macho version of Texas - heh) the film begins in the old west with the cowboy Ghost Rider - then to the seventies and the oh so very young Johnny Blaze - and his story of how he got hooked up with ol horn head. Then it flashes to the modern day where Nick will be taking over the role... The Father of the X-Games... ugh. But there's something wonderful about the doesn't give two ****s attitude where he overshoots his landing to crash, and doomed to always walk away. Originally - the Goyer version was many times more violent, graphic and sad. He turned a visual icon into something far more. I miss that script - here though - he's got more badguys from the books. Folks like BLACKHEART and ABIGOR and the rest of THE HIDDEN. THen there's the CARETAKER and of course there's ol' sctatch himself. As written it'll be a very fun GHOST RIDER - just not the one I wish was made from Goyer's script. It's like - FANTASTIC FOUR - for me, remembering that Michael France draft - which was pretty dead on perfect... and reading the one they have decided to make. It's tragic - but in this case - the script at least is very fun, just not as emotional or brutal or vengeful."

keep in mind he "loves" Goyer's version.....so take that as you will.
regardless its pretty interesting concerning the characters and situations...that is if he has a legit script and not a fake...

[skorponok]

Goyer writes emotional scripts??? (a scene or two from zigzag nonwithstanding since it was based on a book)

[BIGGUN]

exactly....i was really let down by Goyer's script. i gather Harry liked since it had lots of over the top gore, violence and "gritty" language :rolleyes:
but hey thats his prerogative...

[emi]

Yup, I agree: the script that Goyer developed with Norrington was really bad and lame with no emotional resonance. If I don't care for the character then I don't care for the movie. 'nuff said!

[InVictus]

Goyer/Norrington movies are really focused on "looks" and coolnes of the heroes, but often their characters are too cartoonish and without emotional characterization. GR's script was full of very cool scenes, but most of them were filled with nonsense imho(especially when GR enter on scene, very erratic way, but there was very cool scenes, as when GR dig/melts ot of the truck a guy O_O).... Violence is good, but if it has a strong purpose it works even better, most of GR comics are build like that... the more you can identify yourself in JB feelings, the more his and GR actions on screen get emotional impact, a thing violence only can't get.
I theory, starting from a Goyer/Norrington script then having it corrected by MSJ & co should compensate the action/cool part with the character building part...so at the end we should have now a very balanced/faithful script.. at least i hope so :)
There's also the question of GRII strong moral code,(don't kill any human being, only make them suffer eventually with penance stare) will it be in the movie? I think so, it's an interesting and big part of GR way of thought.

[BIGGUN]

good summation InVictus...i agree completely.
if the audience cant identify w/ the human characters its not even worth it...well maybe a bit as long as GR is in it for 90% of the film :D
personally im hoping for the "evil" GR from the 70s...or at least show him w/ evil tendencies (and cant remember his past as in the books). what i liked about the original 70s series was how this evil demon was forced to do good by Blaze's strong moral code. as a result both personalities ended up in a bitter fight over possession of the same body and led to alot of interesting situations. ive always liked that classic inner struggle of good vs evil in stories/films....its a area that hasnt been touched on too much in Marvel films.

[InVictus]

The "JB tricks GR to do good" could also be in the movie, there isn't incompatibility between the two incarnations issues, if done properly it could rock:)

[BIGGUN]

thats true too...hopefully Mark will have some element of that in the movie

now on to that review by Harry....he said that at the beginning of the film there is a "cowboy Ghost Rider". now is this the Carter Slade old west GR (the one dessed in white on a white horse) or could this be a old west variation of GR? i believe its the latter personally.....would make more sense that way. would show GR has been walking the Earth for a lonnnggg time before Blaze entered the picture. just as it was described in the books.
if thats the case i can see MSJ having a little creative freedom on how he would look...maybe even do the trenchcoat GR w/ hellfire shotgun. that way the modern GR would still look as he should and throw hellfire.

[FlameHead]

Something like this you mean?

http://img76.echo.cx/img76/300/wilsonghostrider4ru.jpg

[BIGGUN]

yeah...or like that Bernie Wrightson concept drawing...

http://images.countingdown.com/images/countdowns/movies/15658/1011/19538_main.jpg

[FlameHead]

Or the Javier Saltares one... which isn't Cowboy like at all... but there is a trenchcoat.

Edit: It's too big to post. Go here: http://img91.exs.cx/img91/6196/JS06.jpg

[BIGGUN]

Or even in the style of Ghostie as done by J. Saltares...a painting which he did on comission for yours truly :D

http://www.digitalentropy.net/Internapse/img/GR/Excl/JS09.jpg


lots of ways they could go on this....and all of them would be COOL! heh

[totalpackage59]

Biggun the Old Ghostrider on the horse got me thinking , when they were shooting at the cemetery & then on Friday night at Docklands, I saw two horses one a kind of white australian stock horse & the other a larger black horse.Hope this helps you out

[BIGGUN]

Biggun the Old Ghostrider on the horse got me thinking , when they were shooting at the cemetery & then on Friday night at Docklands, I saw two horses one a kind of white australian stock horse & the other a larger black horse.Hope this helps you out


hmmm...interesting. it might be possible that the old Carter Slade GR is in there...but if they do show him how will they connect the character to the current demonic GR? wont know until next year probably...ARGGHH!!!

[InVictus]

Maybe....Caretaker is really Carter Slade???O_O
Or maybe they're gonna "demonize" him to fit better?
Two horses...one black and one white...the black one could be Mephisto's one...but if instead GR's one?Uhmmm the hellcycle is not "black" as the GRII one, but mostly chromed, so a white horse could even fit as western steed. Maybe Caretaker/Slade did a similar pact with Meph, obtaining different powers/prolongued life, showing that kind of adaptability of Mephisto "gifts" through history that was always somewhat hinted in the comics... ( a "GR legacy" from western to world war, '70 and '90)

BUT.
I don't think well' se the old pale rider as the western GR...probably the LARGE black horse is GR one... white one could be the one of Mephisto.. or Caretaker, if he wasnt the western GR...urgh, i'm frying my brain in this^^;

[BIGGUN]

thats an idea that i havent heard of....Caretaker=Carter Slade. interesting idea...
i have heard that one possible idea that Howard Mackie was toying w/ for the final issue of the GR series was that Caretaker was Mephisto in disguise. bizarre...
and yes my brain is cookin' along w/ yours on this situation...heh

[Riding Ghost]

There's also the question of GRII strong moral code,(don't kill any human being, only make them suffer eventually with penance stare) will it be in the movie? I think so, it's an interesting and big part of GR way of thought.

No. I don't think demons are generally renowned as having strong moral codes and I don't think this "code" that was much attributed to grk is a big part of the way gr thought. I really think we're talkin demon here, and not the ethical, moral soul of a ancient man -noble kale.

[Riding Ghost]

personally im hoping for the "evil" GR from the 70s...or at least show him w/ evil tendencies (and cant remember his past as in the books). what i liked about the original 70s series was how this evil demon was forced to do good by Blaze's strong moral code. as a result both personalities ended up in a bitter fight over possession of the same body and led to alot of interesting situations. ive always liked that classic inner struggle of good vs evil in stories/films....its a area that hasnt been touched on too much in Marvel films.

Yeah- thats what I'm talkin about :up: :up:

[Fettstyl]

No. I don't think demons are generally renowned as having strong moral codes and I don't think this "code" that was much attributed to grk is a big part of the way gr thought. I really think we're talkin demon here, and not the ethical, moral soul of a ancient man -noble kale.

Hey RG a pleasure to read your posts......since I've noticed I'm generally in agreement with what you say :D This time is no exception and I also think what BG was saying is the way to go. However Ghost Rider could also be somewhat moral if, as BG was saying, Blaze was in complete, or near complete control of GR. GR would be moral by way of Blazes control rather than because he's NobleK. I guess it depends on which chapter in Blazes life, i.e. volume 1, they are going with, since as we know Blaze controled GR in the begining, but from about the middle to the end it was a desperate fight for control. I hope for a uncontrollable wrecking machine myself, but I thought I would throw that out anyway in the spirit of looking at it from all sides.

[FlameHead]

Came across this at aint it cool news...Harry says he read the production script and gives a brief review: http://www.aintitcoolnews.com/display.cgi?id=19995

"Hey folks, Harry here -- just recently laid my meaty paws upon the production draft of GHOST RIDER. Written By David Goyer with Revisions by Shane Salerno and the most recent revisions coming from Mark Steven Johnson. Personally - I absolutely love David Goyer's hard-R GHOST RIDER script, and when the orders from everywhere came down to making it PG-13 -- well I knew many things would be missing. Upon reading this script though - it has become far more fanciful. Set in Texas (albeit shot in Australia - aka the smaller less macho version of Texas - heh) the film begins in the old west with the cowboy Ghost Rider - then to the seventies and the oh so very young Johnny Blaze - and his story of how he got hooked up with ol horn head. Then it flashes to the modern day where Nick will be taking over the role... The Father of the X-Games... ugh. But there's something wonderful about the doesn't give two ****s attitude where he overshoots his landing to crash, and doomed to always walk away. Originally - the Goyer version was many times more violent, graphic and sad. He turned a visual icon into something far more. I miss that script - here though - he's got more badguys from the books. Folks like BLACKHEART and ABIGOR and the rest of THE HIDDEN. THen there's the CARETAKER and of course there's ol' sctatch himself. As written it'll be a very fun GHOST RIDER - just not the one I wish was made from Goyer's script. It's like - FANTASTIC FOUR - for me, remembering that Michael France draft - which was pretty dead on perfect... and reading the one they have decided to make. It's tragic - but in this case - the script at least is very fun, just not as emotional or brutal or vengeful."

keep in mind he "loves" Goyer's version.....so take that as you will.
regardless its pretty interesting concerning the characters and situations...that is if he has a legit script and not a fake...

So, I haven't commented on this little 'review' yet. I'm not really sure how to take it. I've read it a bunch of times and I can't understand where this guy is coming from? Is he friends with Goyer or something?

I do agree that a hard edged R movie would be great though. I'm not sure how I feel about it being "very fun". Ghost Rider isn't fun... It's intense. I guess there is a human element though. In fact, the success of the movie will depend on that human element.

The rest of the HIDDEN? Interesting development there.

"Just not as emotional or brutal or vengeful."; worst thing I've read about this movie in months. I dont' really agree with this guys opinion but I dont' like this sentence, regardless. Ghost Rider is emotional, brutal. He IS vengeance.

[BIGGUN]

i wouldnt worry too much about it FH...i dont place a lot of faith in Harry K's talent for script reviews.
keep in mind there are lots of horror films that are conisdered to be fun...as well as being dark and violent. halloween, phantasm, dawn of the dead just to name a few (just naming those since those are my fave :D ) its possible that GR can be just as dark but still be fun to watch. everything that ive heard sounds like Mark is really trying to stay faithful to the comics...which if its true expect it to be in the same style as the books.

[FlameHead]

I have to agree, everything that I've seen and heard so far is tellin' me that MSJ is doin' his best to keep the material from the source. The recent pics of either Nic or somebody in the Ghost Rider get up is aweseom. It really looks like it (if the CG turns out good) could match the Dan Ketch days of his look. The lether jacket and spikes. That's awesome.

I hope to see the Jumpsuit at some point too though.

Screw Harry K. He ain't ****. Pardon the french.

[KenK]

Well, I'd have faith in Goyer's material if Norrington were directing. Blade being any indication, Norrington really knew how to work with his stuff. Now, I wouldn't trust Goyer to direct the script himself, but I have a feeling Norrington would have taken out or fixed what didn't work.

However, having seen the Daredevil Director's Cut, I believe that as long as Johnson is given the right amount of leeway, he can really wow some people. It'll be interesting to see how he develops Johnny Blaze as a character, while making the film fun and scary. Yeah, Ghost Rider could probably fare better with an 'R' rating, but the right writer and director can do scary stuff within PG-13 parameters.

[Riding Ghost]

Hey RG a pleasure to read your posts......since I've noticed I'm generally in agreement with what you say :D This time is no exception and I also think what BG was saying is the way to go. However Ghost Rider could also be somewhat moral if, as BG was saying, Blaze was in complete, or near complete control of GR. GR would be moral by way of Blazes control rather than because he's NobleK. I guess it depends on which chapter in Blazes life, i.e. volume 1, they are going with, since as we know Blaze controled GR in the begining, but from about the middle to the end it was a desperate fight for control. I hope for a uncontrollable wrecking machine myself, but I thought I would throw that out anyway in the spirit of looking at it from all sides.

Thanks Fettstyl.
You are correct, it could be a moral Ghost Rider because of Blaze and not Noble, which of course sits better with me, but like you, I would prefer the Ghost Rider from the 2nd half of GRBlaze series, so I didn't get into what you were talkin about.

On another note about the script review. I hope MSJ doesn't try to pack to much into the movie. You got caretaker, Western Ghost Rider, even the hidden. Sounds like there MAY BE too much to cover, I don't know, we'll have to wait and see, but it is a concern of mine.

[FlameHead]

I worried about that at one time as well. It was around the time I seen Elektra and noticed that that number of characters do bad things. I think I started a thread about it actually...

Maybe it'll just be sutle references for us hard core-ers.

Well, I'd have faith in Goyer's material if Norrington were directing. Blade being any indication, Norrington really knew how to work with his stuff. Now, I wouldn't trust Goyer to direct the script himself, but I have a feeling Norrington would have taken out or fixed what didn't work.


After Blade: Trinity, I wouldn't let Goyer direct a pepsi commercial. I was really let down by that movie and believe it was his direction most that caused me to feel that way.

He's a brilliant writer, don't get me wrong.

[aaron]

is the script online anywhere?

anyone know how long it took goyer to write?

[BIGGUN]

you mean MSJ's version? nope....that script is not online at the moment. although Harry Knowles at "aintitcoolnews.com" says he read it. from his review it sounds like he enjoyed it.

goyer's version is online however. MarvelMovies took the time (over 12 hours!) in putting it on his website. this site is down right now but should be back online in a few days

http://www.digitalentropy.net/Internapse/GRMain.html

[FlameHead]

I suspect we wont see that script until well after the movie is released... on DVD. They should releaes it WITH the DVD... hehe.

We're talking about Goyer's script here if you're interested Kol_Lover; http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183455

[aaron]

ok, thanks guys

[cagefactor]

Is there a script out there somewhere yet? And if so where?

[InVictus]

Of the actual movie?No there isn't. There was the previous Goyer script, thanks to MarvelMovies, but Sony emailed him and... it was completely different from the new one though.

[FlameHead]

Nope, the script thread is still here; http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190484

Grrrr....

[Elektra_Kirigi]

The script was removed from the site. Darn I wanted to read it. I am reallu hyped about this movie!

[FlameHead]

I kept those two seperate because one is for the Goyer Script and one is for the now used script.

[FlameHead]

I hear ya. I feel we already know to much... because we've been discussing it for 2 years now. I've never been this involved in the making of a movie before... and by involved, I mean, knowledged about what's going on. For a while there, set reports were flyin' in.

[FlameHead]

I was never really in to Hulk. Was too busy with the Occult and Moster stuff...

About Nic Cage, I knew he's been involved with the movie for years now but I'm wondering how much input he's had on the script itself. Did he help write it at all? Did he have to have final say on it I wonder?

[InVictus]

MSJ said Nic had some ideas they used in some scenes.

[FlameHead]

hmmm... I wonder how much of the script was written by Shane Salerno.

[FlameHead]

So, we know that Ghost Rider is indeed going to speak because we've been told that Nic has recorded all the dialogue already...

What I'm wondering now is will this dialogue be more along the lines of Zarathos speaking or Noble Kale? Will it be that cackling laughter, kill em all type speech of the first demon or will it be all about him seeking vengeance like the 2nd.

I personally hope they keep it along the lines of the 2nd comming. Of course, I'm a huge fan of that era... but I do believe his "I am the Spirit of Vengeance. You must feel pain" ways are way cool. He's said some of the coolest crap over in his time and I love how noble, Noble.

There is something to be said for the cackling demon though. Perhaps a mixture of both is the way to go.

Also, how much dialogue do you think he'll have?... and do you think/want him to crack jokes. Me, I do not want to hear anything of the sort. Ghost Rider, the Spirit of Vengeance, does not crack wise like Spidey.

[FlameHead]

Yeah, on those things they only list the last screenwriter to work on it. In the film, I'm sure they'll credit all 3 of them who wrote it.

[Hellcycle2000]

If they can't get the voice right, they could always use richard grieco from the cartoon version lol


https://home.comcast.net/~svgjr1975/skull.jpg
Ghost Rider From Episode: "Innocent Blood"

[BURNFOREVER]

If they can't get the voice right, they could always use richard grieco from the cartoon version lol


https://home.comcast.net/~svgjr1975/skull.jpg
Ghost Rider From Episode: "Innocent Blood"

Nice pix from Innocent Blood, man!
Thanx!

[FlameHead]

Yeah, the just don't have the room to put all the names on those posters. If they did it for the writers, they'd have to for all the actors and then all the producers and so on, and so on.

[FlameHead]

Nice Pic indeed. Thanks for posting.

I see Ghost Rider's talk similar to Hulk's in that he doesn't say much, but when he does.. it will be very impactful and put you back in your seat.

I don't see any Spider-Man wise-cracks happening, and when he does talk, I imagine very serious... "Vengeance" words of goodbye...

I can't picture Ghost Rider going into big long speeches that I sometimes see in the Hulk comics when Hulk gains an extra brain. Short little sayings.. like.. "Death is yours" and "Vengeance will be mine" are the types of things I expect.

A demonic laugh or two is a must which I can't wait to hear as well..

Yeah, I don't actually see him coversing with anyone. Just "Get out of my way, Vengeance is due" type stuff. I think you're right on the money with that Hulk comparisson. Little speaking but important speaking.

There's a great chance we'll get that demonic laugh as well...

[CaptainStacy]

I'm hoping for a mixture between the Blaze and Ketch versions....with a slight lean towards Ketch.

The Ketch version sounded somehow more..."Shakespearean"....but i also want the cackling horrific version as well....

[FlameHead]

Shakespearean is definatly a good way to describe. It certaily did have a beautifully poetic verse inbedded in it... and that's what I loved most about it.

As for the horrifying cackle... who knows?

[Uncanny Orb]

I'm not really sure how to word it but I hope when he speaks you get a sense of him being very old, bloodthirsty and just as dangerous if not more so than his prey. Also that he has always been THE Ghost Rider not different ones through out time..

[Mr Nick]

The Ketch version sounded somehow more..."Shakespearean"....but i also want the cackling horrific version as well....

I think they should steer well clear of cackles and definitely laughter. I just caught the Roger Corman Fantastic 4 (cheap but fun) and Dr. Doom's was cheesier than a mouse called Cheesy McCheese.

:down

[FlameHead]

I don't think Ghost Rider laughing would be cheesy at all. It would just be him having fun doing what he does best... which, now that I think about it, is something that probably shouldn't happen. I'd personally like to see honor in this character. I want them to show that he takes pride in what he does but, he probably shouldn't be having the greatest of times.

[lordofthenerds]

I found a couple of old Ghost Rider script reviews and I thought that I would post them here. Here are the links:
http://www.digitalentropy.net/Internapse/page/gr/GRScript.html
http://www.latinoreview.com/scriptreviews/ghostrider/ghostrider.html
Sorry if this has been posted before.

[str8raz0r]

I found a couple of old Ghost Rider script reviews and I thought that I would post them here. Here are the links:
http://www.digitalentropy.net/Internapse/page/gr/GRScript.html
http://www.latinoreview.com/scriptreviews/ghostrider/ghostrider.html
Sorry if this has been posted before.

Interesting reads, but not really relevant to the current film.

To be brutally honest, Goyer's script (from what I gleaned in the first review) seems rather lame. It definitely shows a man who's not nearly as solid a writer as he is now. Blaze being a criminal who becomes a Spirit of Vengeance is such ham-fisted irony that I can't imagine many people swallowing it.

Regardless though, thanks for the fun reading material!

[Mr. Socko]

A very good read, thanks.:ghost:

[FlameHead]

There's a conversation about Goyer's script here too, if you're interested: http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183455

[Screenscribe]

after reading the transpcript for the dialoge of the new scenes boy do I hope that the actors can pull that off.

The dialogue (as it was written in the article anyway) is very clunky. Granted, its a tough speech to make and Johnny's dialogue isn't too bad but Roxanne's is terrible. All she has is exposition of their relationship up to that point. I'm assuming that we've seen what happens in the film and don't need a re-cap by the characters. There is no need for that. Then we get exposition of her career. If its a work in progress I hope that they are working on the looping of the dialogue too.

At least Johnny's dialogue makes sense. She doesn't know what is going on but so far with the trailers I've seen and what was written we have about 3 people telling us what and who the Ghost Rider is. Unless the voice-over in the trailers won't make it into the film.

At least I can take some comfort in knowing that others are writing clunky too... :yay:

[xwolverine2]

huh?

[FlameHead]

In reference to the posting on the front page: http://www.superherohype.com/news/featuresnews.php?id=4966

"I think I should walk you to your car. This is not a great time," Johnny tells Roxanne.

"You almost kill yourself on the highway so you can ask me out and then you don't show. Then you keep my picture, but when I kiss you, you try to shove me out the door. What, what's going on," Roxanne asks. "Don't you care about me Johnny? You can talk to me. You can tell me anything."

"You wouldn't believe me anyway," Johnny replies.

"Try me."

'You'll think I'm crazy. Maybe I am crazy. I hope I'm crazy."

"With my job, I've seen and heard just about everything," Roxanne reminds him. "So there is nothing that you can tell me that's going to surprise me."

"Off the record?"

"Yeah."

"I sold my soul to the devil and now I have to spare you."

Roxanne sits on the bed looking confused and doesn't believe what Johnny is telling her.

"Spare me from what?" she asks

"The devil. On account I work for him. That's why I couldn't make it to dinner."

"Because you were working for the devil?"

"Yeah. I'm his bounty hunter. It only happens at night like it is right now. When I'm around evil, evil people, evil spirits I change…But, I am learning to get control of it. I'm trying to."

"So tonight you'll…"

"I believe so, yeah. So it's probably a very good idea that you run home now Roxie."

I love it, personally.

[GDM]

In reference to the posting on the front page: http://www.superherohype.com/news/featuresnews.php?id=4966



I love it, personally.

I also love it. Man I cannot wait to see how Nic and Eva pull that out. It's going to be awsome.

[CAH]

I like the dialogue, but I'm much more concerned about how the GR lines sound than the Johnny lines.


But what I heard GR say ("Back to hell" in the trailer) so far, it's fantastic!



CAH

[Midnyte_Sun]

after reading the transpcript for the dialoge of the new scenes boy do I hope that the actors can pull that off.

The dialogue (as it was written in the article anyway) is very clunky. Granted, its a tough speech to make and Johnny's dialogue isn't too bad but Roxanne's is terrible. All she has is exposition of their relationship up to that point. I'm assuming that we've seen what happens in the film and don't need a re-cap by the characters. There is no need for that. Then we get exposition of her career. If its a work in progress I hope that they are working on the looping of the dialogue too.

At least Johnny's dialogue makes sense. She doesn't know what is going on but so far with the trailers I've seen and what was written we have about 3 people telling us what and who the Ghost Rider is. Unless the voice-over in the trailers won't make it into the film.

At least I can take some comfort in knowing that others are writing clunky too... :yay:

Well Roxannes character has been left in the dark about Blaze's problems for a very long time. Roxeanne had a chance to meet him again and continued chasing him trying to understand what drove them apart, and possibly forge a new lasting bond before Blaze leaves her life forever. Thats the way I see it.

...and seeing the new revealed dialogue, it seems actually quite funny in a way that Nicolas Cage can only deliver!

[zer00]

I will admit it is clunky dialogue. But to be honest we don't know how dead on the transcript is and clunky dialogue can sound great on screen.