narrows demon-bat scene plothole? sound editing mistake?

[superkong 500]

Okay I have noted some mistakes in BB, like the shot of the man in the docks still standing after bats has already taken down all of falcone's men. But the shot is really fast so what the heck right.

I have noted a couple more but I've ignored them. Until now.

I was watching the dvd this week, and noticed that in the scene in which ra's and the ninjas are elevating(loading) the microwave emmiter into the train and batman comes flying in. There's something that suddenly bothered me. Not the effects of the landing as they look great and pretty real, but a sudden cut or halt in a sound element.When batman's about to land you can clearly hear the screams of the people in the narrows which are driven crazy under the influence of the fear gas.

They see bats as a giant demon bat, we all know that. Okay now as he lands the screams continue, but just as he finishes his landing and his wings retract to become his cape again the screams suddenly stop. Yes you might say that as he lands he disappears out of their sight, but what bothers me is not that the screams stop but simply that they stop too abruptly just syncronized, in perfect timing with batman's landing.

Not only that but it seems as if the people just disappeared, you don't hear a single voice from them, shoudn't they just keep screaming after he has landed? I mean they just saw a giant bat with fiery eyes flying above them. Even if they cease to see him they should still be scared in panic waiting for him to appear again(even sane people remain in panic after something awful happens muchmore someone under the gas influence), yet you don't hear a single sound in that moment.

He just lands in front of Ra's and the ninjas and we don't hear even a far away scream or an echo as if the fear gas's effect suddenly disappeared and everyone's alright again.

If you put your disc and watch this scene you will notice this. i mean sure i understand that nolan wanted to focus on bats and ra's conversation. But what about the background sounds they just disappear.

what do you make of this?

[zer00]

*coughs up blood*

[CConn]

Holy pointless criticism, Batman.

[superkong 500]

What? pointless critisism? Iam just stating something that I noticed, Iam not trying to make a big fuss about it. Just asking if someone else had notice it. There has been threads about less important things. Oh nevermind

[zer00]

*coughs up blood*

[cryptic name]

maybe it's a stylistic choice?

[zer00]

Or we could all live in reality together

[The-Dark-Knight]

Um?

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Wow. Now this can count as a plothole?

****...people have been reaching for a loonnnnggg time, and I still don't buy that "Microwave Emitter Plothole" complaint (the movie TELLS us it uses focused Microwaves to vaporize the water supply..) but this is....wow. Just. Wow.

*coughs up blood*

[Lead Cenobite]

People have nitpicks like this for all movies. Just look at what goes on in any Superman Returns board.

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Well, the SR boards became a warzone the day that flick came out. It's a good movie, but man......people got angry. It was as if the year before the film's release everyone was in a cave or something....

[zer00]

Superman fans didn't evolve from apes

they still are

retarded apes

[ChrisBaleBatman]

lol.....I can understand your sentiments. I mean, really.....I KNEW exactly what Singer was going for because I came on these boards every day and read and saw and saw the pics, and the quotes and the rumors....we were getting a film much in the vein of Donner's films. We knew it.

Add to that, the fact that Donner's films are held to such an immense high regard and many feel that the origin of Superman can never be done as well as it was in STM.....and the way the fanbase just carries that film with all the glory of Mount Olympus....I just don't understand how people could suddenly turn on Singer for not wanting to get in a piss fight with Donner by trying to re-do the origin and trying to do a semi-sequel.

I'm still bewildered by how the fanbase as a whole has reacted. But, then again....I'm a Batman freak. I like my films dark, brooding and foreboding. Maybe I'll never "get it" when it comes to Superman. I still like him though.

Btw, zer00.....I don't think you've ever told me what your exact views on Batman Begins are.

I mean, this thread is already in the ****ter. Might as well try and make something out of it.

[ChrisBaleBatman]

btw.....can someone explain to me why a break in crowd noise in a film can be considered a plot hole?

[zer00]

Yeah we don't know.

Oh I love BB. I'm not one of those BB>>>>Godfather freaks but I love the film, it's one of my top comic book movies along with SR, STM, SM1, X-2, TMNT

to be honest my list of top films goes on for a while, but at the MOMENT those are my cream of the crop, I'd count The Shadow and Rocketeer in there but they're more of pulp heroes so for the sake of the list I left them out for now.

[FNSpidey]

I have a question. I didn't want to start a new thread about this, so I'll just ask here, hoping it'll get noticed.

What I'm wondering about is: was Ra's plan simply to get the microwave emitter inside Wayne Tower, in order to start the chain reaction that would evaporate the water in the city? Or did he really need the pressure to somehow build up by having the machine inside the train that was moving along the water pipe and gradually evaporate the water there?

Because if it's the former, isn't it kinda stupid that he got to the Narrows (with a SWAT van) to load the machine onto the train? Couldn't he just drive to Wayne Tower and activate the machine there?

If it's the latter though, shouldn't Batman simply blow the railroad in advance before going into the Narrows? No building up pressure, no poison in gas form.

So, does anybody know which is it? Any ideas on the questions I posted?

[zer00]

It's hard to say how his plan was going to work "your antics at the asylum has forced my hand" he had to use the train at that moment to covertly get to Wayne Tower. The reason Bats didn't blow up the tracks right away was because:

Plan A: Stop Ra's before the train takes off
Plan B: Stop Ra's on the train
Plan C: Gordon blows up the tracks

[FNSpidey]

But wouldn't it be much more covert if he just drove to Wayne Tower, altogether avoiding the chaos in the Narrows, where the whole police force had gathered?

Or maybe he had to build up pressure after all. I mean, there has to be some meaning to the railroad moving along the main water pipe, right? Otherwise, he could have taken the train from another station, why the Narrows? Does anyone have any ideas?

Plus, I agree with your plan A,B,C line of thinking. But it seems he could at least set some explosives on the track and detonate them later. Why rely on Gordon? Or maybe he didn't have the necessary equipment. He was just begining after all...

[zer00]

I don't think he has explosives lying around or the time if he to get to the track to inact plan A.

also

stop thinking so much, it's a movie

[ChrisBaleBatman]

He couldn't have placed explosives on the tracks ahead of time because he didn't know the plan until it was too late to do that.

The Plan was probably much more elaborate before Ra's sped it up. zer00 pointed out the quote, and obviously Ra's felt like he needed to make things happen sooner.

The way I saw it, Ra's wanted to evaporate all of the fear gas running throughout the cities pipeline. Wayne Tower seems to have had most of Gotham's water supply pipeline running through it. Not all, but most of the major part of the city. And, yes...most of the police presense was in the Narrows.....which is probably why Ra's set of the emitter there before he had it placed on the train. It's also why he had Arkham's walls blown up and released all the psychos. So that the GCPD needed to rush and get all they're presense there. The GCPD would be completely immobolized that way, becasue most of the police would be there, and would be taken out by the gas. And, that was important, because really.....Ra's thought Bruce was dead by then. So, the ONLY thing that could have a shot at him would be the cops and they were done with.

I imagine the train is the best way to get to the Tower because it passes by it and there's no traffic and no chance of getting in some accident or something that would destroy the Microwave Emitter. Again, Ra's thought Bruce was taken care of. And, the cops were too. So, I think it makes sense to just leave the Emitter on while the train takes him to the Tower where the rest of Gotham City (and not just All of the Narrows) would be covered in Fear Gas.

As for Batman's plan. He wanted to try and stop the train. He wanted to stop Ra's from reaching the Tower. That's all. The thing is, he wanted to try and stop it himself and not have to destroy it. He didn't really rely on Gordon, but he trusted Gordon (which is important) to cover him in case he couldn't stop the train himself. Ra's destroyed the controls and Bruce couldn't stop the train.....so Gordon destryoing the tracks so that it never reaches the Tower was Plan B.

Well, actually Plan C, like zer00 said. Plan A was to try and stop the train from leaving the station. But, Plan A didn't go very well because of the 10 ninjas or so. lol.

Gordon was just doing it as backup to Batman if he couldn't stop the train himself. Turns out he couldn't and Batman did good by trusting Gordon. Which, furthers they're relationship and makes them more and more like the trusted friends we know them to be in the comics.

[CConn]

It's hard to say how his plan was going to work "your antics at the asylum has forced my hand" he had to use the train at that moment to covertly get to Wayne Tower. The reason Bats didn't blow up the tracks right away was because:

Plan A: Stop Ra's before the train takes off
Plan B: Stop Ra's on the train
Plan C: Gordon blows up the tracksHaving three different plans is so Batman.

[zer00]

and let's not forget "the pressure's building"

[zer00]

Having three different plans is so Batman.
You know what's so batman?

****ing whores and eating beef jerky

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Yeah, it is CConn. Dude always seems to have like 4 back up plans in case the first 3 don't pan out.

And, we only got 3 plans in the end of BEGINS because he had to rush. Give him prep time, and holy **** would Ra's had been sooooo ****ed.

MMMMNNN....Beef Jerky.

[CConn]

Mmmmm. Whores.

[zer00]

Vanessa Lane:up:

[ChrisBaleBatman]

MMMmmmm....Vanessa Lane.......

[FNSpidey]

and let's not forget "the pressure's building"

Well, I guess this is my main question. Did he need to build the pressure? Maybe activating the machine at Wayne Tower wouldn't build enough pressure for the water to evaporize and spread throughout the city? If so, that's why he had to use the train.

stop thinking so much, it's a movie

This, I don't agree with. A good central plot is all the difference between a good and a bad movie. I can't stand a half-baked plot or a plothole-ridden story (SR comes to mind).

[zer00]

Leave and never return

[CConn]

Run, Forrest, run.

[Flexo]

Vanessa Lane:up:

... Indeed. :up:

[FNSpidey]

Leave and never return

Why?

[zer00]

You ****ing heard me.

I...I don't believe I typed stuttered.

[FNSpidey]

I know I heard you. I asked why.

[Flexo]

I know I heard you. I asked why.

You're not getting the big picture. :cmad:

[zer00]

this thread isn't for 20 questions

[FNSpidey]

Ok then. Although I don't see a point in this thread.
Nice signature, though.
Carry on...

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Did you even read what I typed?? I answered your questions. I spent a good 8 hours working on that too......and what do I get? A thank you? I reply? a rebuttle?

No. a ****ing snub.

Makes me feel like leaving it all behind and disappearing into Europe.....or something....for a good 7 years. Yeah.....run forest, run....

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Did you even read what I typed?? I answered your questions. I spent a good 8 hours working on that too......and what do I get? A thank you? I reply? a rebuttle?

No. a ****ing snub.

Makes me feel like leaving it all behind and disappearing into Europe.....or something....for a good 7 years. Yeah.....run forest, run....

[zer00]

we go it

[BatFitz]

Okay I have noted some mistakes in BB, like the shot of the man in the docks still standing after bats has already taken down all of falcone's men. But the shot is really fast so what the heck right.

I have noted a couple more but I've ignored them. Until now.

I was watching the dvd this week, and noticed that in the scene in which ra's and the ninjas are elevating(loading) the microwave emmiter into the train and batman comes flying in. There's something that suddenly bothered me. Not the effects of the landing as they look great and pretty real, but a sudden cut or halt in a sound element.When batman's about to land you can clearly hear the screams of the people in the narrows which are driven crazy under the influence of the fear gas.

They see bats as a giant demon bat, we all know that. Okay now as he lands the screams continue, but just as he finishes his landing and his wings retract to become his cape again the screams suddenly stop. Yes you might say that as he lands he disappears out of their sight, but what bothers me is not that the screams stop but simply that they stop too abruptly just syncronized, in perfect timing with batman's landing.

Not only that but it seems as if the people just disappeared, you don't hear a single voice from them, shoudn't they just keep screaming after he has landed? I mean they just saw a giant bat with fiery eyes flying above them. Even if they cease to see him they should still be scared in panic waiting for him to appear again(even sane people remain in panic after something awful happens muchmore someone under the gas influence), yet you don't hear a single sound in that moment.

He just lands in front of Ra's and the ninjas and we don't hear even a far away scream or an echo as if the fear gas's effect suddenly disappeared and everyone's alright again.

If you put your disc and watch this scene you will notice this. i mean sure i understand that nolan wanted to focus on bats and ra's conversation. But what about the background sounds they just disappear.

what do you make of this?

While true, it wasn't necessary to engage you into the story. Nolan needed us to hear the screams, then he needed us to hear Rhas talking to Batman...I don't think I would like the screams clogging that dialogue

[FNSpidey]

Hey ChrisBaleBatman, no need to get irritated. I read your answers and I thank you for taking the time to type all that. And I didn't try to insult anyone in here, in fact I don't think I was impolite anywhere.
I tried to continue the conversation by asking a specific question, but obviously some people here weren't interested in it at all, so I dropped the subject. Again, politely.
If anything, I am the one who got the snub. Although, you should go to Europe. It's nice.

[zer00]

Silence

[Flexo]

Silence

Ahh, crickets.

[CConn]

This thread sucks more than the new FF lineup.

Oh. Oh. Topical humor.

[Flexo]

This thread sucks more than the new FF lineup.

Oh. Oh. Topical humor.

I like Doug Jones. :csad:

[CConn]

I meant the comic, not the movie.

That said, Doug Jones should replace Black Panther.

[zer00]

Black face:up:

[CConn]

I missed the Vanessa Lane mention from yesterday. :(

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Quick....someone post some of her pics....

[zer00]

...you do it

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Meg....all's I got of her is basically too adult for these wussies on SHH.

"Too oral! Too anal! Too many guys bangin her at once!" they'd say.

[zer00]

Too much pink!

[ChrisBaleBatman]

lmao........

[Lazlo Panaflex]

Maybe the panicked crowd all just became quiet to hear about Ra's Al Ghul evil plan. ;)

[TheBat812]

This is done because it focuses the audience's attention on what Batman is doing, not what the crowd is doing. It is timed perfectly because it's the best way to stop a sound (with the abrupt sound of the landing). It's a better way than to fade out the screams, and the screams are not necessary for the scene, so they get rid of the sounds. It's not an error, it's a stylistic and practical choice.

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Yup.

And it's far from a supposed...."Plot hole".

I wonder if people even know what those are anymore.