The new Penance, REVEALED

[Specter313]

Apologies if this has been talked about elsewhere, but I didn't see it:

Found this cover to Frontline #10

http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/7931/627828fulys4.jpg

I know the theory has been thrown around alot that it would be Speedball under that costume, and I think that cover just about proves it.

[Harlekin]

What a shocker...

[Anubis]

Theres still a chance it aint him......

Also, how many issues is the Front Line mini supposed to run?

[Red]

Unbelieveable.

[Darthphere]

Theres still a chance it aint him......

Also, how many issues is the Front Line mini supposed to run?


11. Shocking, truly shocking. Worst kept secret this side of Monarch.

[PhotoJones]

11. Shocking, truly shocking. Worst kept secret this side of Monarch.

to be fair, it was never really a secret. it was pretty obvious from the get go.

[Darthphere]

to be fair, it was never really a secret. it was pretty obvious from the get go.


Except they try to have this mystery behind who is Penance. Just read the character profile interviews on Newsarama.

[LouFerignoDemon]

It was so blatantly obvious that it was Speedball I almost quoted Scrubs.

[Darthphere]

Do it.

[LouFerignoDemon]

I can't. I just...can't.

[Citizen_Kaine]

LOL at Marvel's attempt to keep secrets. Where did you find this cover btw?

[Specter313]

LOL at Marvel's attempt to keep secrets. Where did you find this cover btw?

Found it at Midtowncomics when I was looking at what was coming out this week.

[Themanofbat]

I just read it... Penance is DEFINITELY Robbie Baldwin

:yay:

[LouFerignoDemon]

That's just ducky.

[Dread]

That is rather wacky. So, basically, Marvel is saying that Ditko's design is outdated, better to rip off Voldo from SOUL CALIBER, circa Namco. And a happy-go-lucky hero who absorbs kinetic energy is also outdated, best to make him a masochist freak.

I'll read it and give it a chance. I still care nothing for the new Thunderbolts though.

And it also confirms some of my susipicions about the end of CW; that in some way the SHRA remains, or at least those that registered before it's end will become full fed agents, whether they want it or not (Wonder Man's been a bit two faced on it, being gung-ho in MS. MARVEL and hesitant in FRONTLINE).

[jaydawg]

There goes my hope for Speedball being on the new New Warriors. Balls.

[jaydawg]

There goes my hope for Speedball being on the new New Warriors. Balls.

[Muze]

he reminds me of one of those monsters you'd expect to see on Power Rangers. any second now, someone's going to hit him with a globe of energy so he can fight a megazord at giant-size.

[Darthphere]

I'd pay for that.

[Vanguard07]

he reminds me of one of those monsters you'd expect to see on Power Rangers. any second now, someone's going to hit him with a globe of energy so he can fight a megazord at giant-size.

Either that or he's a putty and if you touch his chest he'll fall apart.

and Mistress, it shames me that I missed the scrubs reference. What quote were you referring to?

[LouFerignoDemon]

The "ducky" one?

It's where Cox told JD that there was a reoccuring patient that he actually liked, so if JD could make sure he didn't die, that'd be just ducky.

[Vanguard07]

ah yes.
I've only started watching the show like a month ago but i've seen a fair number of them already and enjoy them.

Dr Cox and the Janitor rule.

[LouFerignoDemon]

Cox is the best.

[The Leaguer]

http://img45.photobucket.com/albums/v139/GimpyHatesTheFrench/voldo2.jpg

[Doc Destruction]

Lame.

The other Penance is a far superior character.

[LouFerignoDemon]

If I were Marvel, I'd totally sue Namco1

[deemar325]

This is just f--king retarded!! Speedball!!?? Penance!?


Yet again Joey Q needs to have a massive heart attack and die. Stupid.

[Darthphere]

It's almost like, why didn't you just kill off Speedball?

[Tropico]

'Cause there are things worse than that, and being Quesada's buttmonkey is one of them.

[Darthphere]

I'll find a way to blame Ellis for this.

[Tropico]

I'll find a way to blame Ellis for this.

You should blame me. I'm cursed to always have my favorite characters fu¢ked with.

[Anubis]

Who else do you like, so I know whose next on the list to get f**ked over?

[Tropico]

Well, Firestorm already got screwed over. And I'm starting to like the new one.
I've liked Blue Devil since it came out.
The New Warriors (Nova was never my cup of tea).
Ronan is currently my favorite of all the Annihilation guys.
The Legion!!!
The JSA!

[Dread]

The irony here is, this is another case of Marvel basically doing what the fans wanted, just in an ass-backwards kind of way. After a few issues of FRONTLINE and so forth, few around here, myself included, wanted Speedball to die, and yet for a while it looked inevitable (especially after he was shot). Nope, he's alive. And he even has a "new attitude".

The thing is, though, we know Penance works for the Thunderbolts, a team that counts amung their roster Venom, Green Goblin, and Bullseye, all stone cold maniac killers. Speedball won my respect with his virtue in FRONTLINE, and it would be a shame to see him sell out. I could understand to get out of jail, but he was the one rightly claiming it was unfair to blame the Warriors for something Nitro CHOSE to do. I mean by SHIELD's logic, every police officier who goes on a high speed chase is a bastard.

To be fair, we will have to see where it develops. Just this new Penance is a clone of a VIDEO GAME design, and I hate to see Speedball become an emo, mashocist freak. Why stop there? Give him black nail polish, and have him say things like, "I cut myself to feel alive!", and have him hang out with people who dress goth, only deny it so they can feel like "outsiders" and not as part of, gasp, a clique. :rolleyes:

And it is a bummer he can't be there with the next set of NEW WARRIORS. I'd hoped that with CW, the New Warrior franchise would see a surge, but if this is the best they can do with Speedball, I may not be interested. Thank goodness Justice is in Slott's hands.

I think I may end up preferring the original Penance, soon to be seen in THE LONERS.

[Anubis]

Well, Firestorm already got screwed over. And I'm starting to like the new one.
I've liked Blue Devil since it came out.
The New Warriors (Nova was never my cup of tea).
Ronan is currently my favorite of all the Annihilation guys.
The Legion!!!
The JSA!

Please, for the sake of us all, stop likeing the JSA. I don't think I could take it if they screwed that up too. :(

[deemar325]

It's almost like, why didn't you just kill off Speedball?

I'd kinda rather have that.

[Specter313]

It's almost like, why didn't you just kill off Speedball?

Next he's gonna make it so bad between MJ and Spidey he's gonna make us wish they just got a simple divorce.

[Tropico]

Please, for the sake of us all, stop likeing the JSA. I don't think I could take it if they screwed that up too. :(

Speaking of JSA, what got me into the new JSA was that Starman/Jack was part of it. What happened some months down the line? You guessed it.:dry:

[Themanofbat]

The irony here is, this is another case of Marvel basically doing what the fans wanted, just in an ass-backwards kind of way. After a few issues of FRONTLINE and so forth, few around here, myself included, wanted Speedball to die, and yet for a while it looked inevitable (especially after he was shot). Nope, he's alive. And he even has a "new attitude".

The thing is, though, we know Penance works for the Thunderbolts, a team that counts amung their roster Venom, Green Goblin, and Bullseye, all stone cold maniac killers. Speedball won my respect with his virtue in FRONTLINE, and it would be a shame to see him sell out. I could understand to get out of jail, but he was the one rightly claiming it was unfair to blame the Warriors for something Nitro CHOSE to do. I mean by SHIELD's logic, every police officier who goes on a high speed chase is a bastard.

To be fair, we will have to see where it develops. Just this new Penance is a clone of a VIDEO GAME design, and I hate to see Speedball become an emo, mashocist freak. Why stop there? Give him black nail polish, and have him say things like, "I cut myself to feel alive!", and have him hang out with people who dress goth, only deny it so they can feel like "outsiders" and not as part of, gasp, a clique. :rolleyes:

And it is a bummer he can't be there with the next set of NEW WARRIORS. I'd hoped that with CW, the New Warrior franchise would see a surge, but if this is the best they can do with Speedball, I may not be interested. Thank goodness Justice is in Slott's hands.

I think I may end up preferring the original Penance, soon to be seen in THE LONERS.

I don't have my issue in front of me, but it's not so much as Robbie simply becoming a "mashocist freak".

Technically, he feels terrible for what happened, and with that armour, he'll carry that pain with him whenever he wears it, and I think his new powers deerive from the pain he feels, so it works for him.

I don't particularly like where they've gone with his character, but it's not a sudden 180... you can see the development over 10 issues of Frontlines....

... in my opinion.

:csad:

[deemar325]

Next he's gonna make it so bad between MJ and Spidey he's gonna make us wish they just got a simple divorce.

The funny thing is it might be far worse than that. Far worse Sin's Past bad!!


God I'm feeling ill.:csad:

[Anubis]

Speaking of JSA, what got me into the new JSA was that Starman/Jack was part of it. What happened some months down the line? You guessed it.:dry:

So it was your fault?!? DAMN YOU!!!!!!! :mad:

Well, at least they didn't kill Jack off. heh, I said jack off.

[PWN3R]

I don't have my issue in front of me, but it's not so much as Robbie simply becoming a "mashocist freak".

Technically, he feels terrible for what happened, and with that armour, he'll carry that pain with him whenever he wears it, and I think his new powers deerive from the pain he feels, so it works for him.

I don't particularly like where they've gone with his character, but it's not a sudden 180... you can see the development over 10 issues of Frontlines....

... in my opinion.

:csad:


In character as in, "You're hurting me, I like it" kind of way?:csad:

[Dread]

Next he's gonna make it so bad between MJ and Spidey he's gonna make us wish they just got a simple divorce.
You mean when Mackie broke them up? And then JMS brought them back together as soon as SPIDER-MAN was a twinkle in the movie goer's eye?

I always wonder about a man like Joe Q who believes a brutal murder is "more realistic" or acceptable than a divorce. And we wonder why a lot of people believe comic writers have "issues with women".

I'll wait until I read the FRONTLINE issue, but it just seems off. I get that since we have had many characters who draw kinetic energy from being beat on, a masochist one is a no-brainer, something I am surprised Morrison didn't think up. But to make Speedball that? That's like turning Squirrel Girl into a ****ty, half naked knife throwing assassin.

There were many things to do with Speedball after FRONTLINE, and I'm so far not convinced this was the best.

[PWN3R]

Yeah I was really starting to like Speedball. I mean this guy had major potential post Civil War.

Alos it doesn't help that I have no interest in the upcoming "New" New Thunderbolts.

[deemar325]

It's like Marvel (Joey) is trying to purposely make us the fans hate Speedball so much that we'll be beggin for Speedy's death. It's a round about way for the lardass Joey Q to get what he wants while being able to say "Hey look Speedball is alive and bigger than ever" knowing it's the most retarded thing to do to a beloved character. What next Norman Osborn gonna have sex with him?

[stillanerd]

I can remember Joe Q saying way back when in one of his Joe Friday's columns about how Speedball wasn't a bankable character because everything from his look to his wasn't a cool enough, especially for any kind of movie franchase. Oh, but calling him "Penance" and having him look all dark and edgy, envoking all those dark and edgy 90s characters...that's where it's at. :whatever:

The irony here is, this is another case of Marvel basically doing what the fans wanted, just in an ass-backwards kind of way. After a few issues of FRONTLINE and so forth, few around here, myself included, wanted Speedball to die, and yet for a while it looked inevitable (especially after he was shot). Nope, he's alive. And he even has a "new attitude".

The thing is, though, we know Penance works for the Thunderbolts, a team that counts amung their roster Venom, Green Goblin, and Bullseye, all stone cold maniac killers. Speedball won my respect with his virtue in FRONTLINE, and it would be a shame to see him sell out. I could understand to get out of jail, but he was the one rightly claiming it was unfair to blame the Warriors for something Nitro CHOSE to do. I mean by SHIELD's logic, every police officier who goes on a high speed chase is a bastard.

Well, I'm betting that Speedball (and I'm sorry, I'll still call him Speedball instead of Penance, if that's the case) is forced to work for the Thunderbolts because, technically, they consider him a criminal just like Venom, Green Goblin, and Bullseye. But yeah, him selling out after all he's gone through to take the stance that Nitro is far more culpable for what happened would really be crappy.

[deemar325]

You mean when Mackie broke them up? And then JMS brought them back together as soon as SPIDER-MAN was a twinkle in the movie goer's eye?

I always wonder about a man like Joe Q who believes a brutal murder is "more realistic" or acceptable than a divorce. And we wonder why a lot of people believe comic writers have "issues with women".

I'll wait until I read the FRONTLINE issue, but it just seems off. I get that since we have had many characters who draw kinetic energy from being beat on, a masochist one is a no-brainer, something I am surprised Morrison didn't think up. But to make Speedball that? That's like turning Squirrel Girl into a ****ty, half naked knife throwing assassin.

There were many things to do with Speedball after FRONTLINE, and I'm so far not convinced this was the best.

I seriously think Joey Q was so ready to off Speedball that when the fan reaction was so negative that either the higher ups ordered him not to kill SB or out of spite to fans he decided to ruin him so much that Speedball would never recover as a character within Marvel's rock solid continuity.

[stillanerd]

I seriously think Joey Q was so ready to off Speedball that when the fan reaction was so negative that either the higher ups ordered him not to kill SB or out of spite to fans he decided to ruin him so much that Speedball would never recover as a character within Marvel's rock solid continuity.

You mean kind of like how Dan Didio wanted to kill Nightwing during Infinite Crisis and then after fans spared him hired Bruce Jones for the comic and it was so bad that even Nightwing fans wished Didio went with his original plan? Yeah, if Marvel can "borrow" ideas from their competition, they can certainly "borrow" strategies.

[deemar325]

It's not above them.

I can see a weekly Marvel Presents in a few years now.

[Fading]

What next Norman Osborn gonna have sex with him?
Oh cool, so you have seen the preview for the new CW spin-off series too?

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l267/PsychoManCB/Fading-CWUndercovercopy.jpg

[spideyboy_1111]

You mean when Mackie broke them up? And then JMS brought them back together as soon as SPIDER-MAN was a twinkle in the movie goer's eye?

I always wonder about a man like Joe Q who believes a brutal murder is "more realistic" or acceptable than a divorce. And we wonder why a lot of people believe comic writers have "issues with women".

I'll wait until I read the FRONTLINE issue, but it just seems off. I get that since we have had many characters who draw kinetic energy from being beat on, a masochist one is a no-brainer, something I am surprised Morrison didn't think up. But to make Speedball that? That's like turning Squirrel Girl into a ****ty, half naked knife throwing assassin.

There were many things to do with Speedball after FRONTLINE, and I'm so far not convinced this was the best.

well according to wikipedia says joey Q actually thinks splitting or killing MJ is far worse then them being together... so i dont think hes doing anything to them...

[Harlekin]

I seriously think Joey Q was so ready to off Speedball that when the fan reaction was so negative that either the higher ups ordered him not to kill SB or out of spite to fans he decided to ruin him so much that Speedball would never recover as a character within Marvel's rock solid continuity.
Meh, I don't think so. I think Joey Q was expressly doing all of the I-hate-Speedball rants in order to drum up interest and get people riled up. He knew it would make Speedball more popular than he's ever been. Just look at what happened when Hawkeye was killed off. Suddenly, people who had barely hurt of the character started touting him as their favourite. Joey Q basically got that reaction without needing to kill Speedy off.

[LouFerignoDemon]

It's like Marvel (Joey) is trying to purposely make us the fans hate Speedball so much that we'll be beggin for Speedy's death. It's a round about way for the lardass Joey Q to get what he wants while being able to say "Hey look Speedball is alive and bigger than ever" knowing it's the most retarded thing to do to a beloved character. What next Norman Osborn gonna have sex with him?

The twist is, Robbie will have his kid. And it will have been Rand this ENTIRE time.

[Doc Destruction]

Meh, I don't think so. I think Joey Q was expressly doing all of the I-hate-Speedball rants in order to drum up interest and get people riled up. He knew it would make Speedball more popular than he's ever been. Just look at what happened when Hawkeye was killed off. Suddenly, people who had barely hurt of the character started touting him as their favourite. Joey Q basically got that reaction without needing to kill Speedy off.

Except in BOTH cases there already WERE a lot of fans for both characters. Joey has no clue what his readers like. Take the marriage of MJ and Peter for instance.

[KAD]

Except in BOTH cases there already WERE a lot of fans for both characters. Joey has no clue what his readers like. Take the marriage of MJ and Peter for instance.

I have always been a Speedball fan and felt he was a much needed lighter side of marvel during the 90's.

As far as potential go read the early New Warriors.

He knocked Terrax on his keister for stan's sake.

I for one will hate it if they bastardize this character.

[Harlekin]

The fans were there, but they were never vocal. It's all about drumming up interest. Let's face it, Hawkeye and Speedball haven't really known a more popular time till now. Everybody's been talking about either one of them. That's what Joey Q's about.

[Red]

What screwing up characters, so they get more publicity?

[hippie_hunter]

well according to wikipedia says joey Q actually thinks splitting or killing MJ is far worse then them being together... so i dont think hes doing anything to them...

The cover to the Amazing Spider-Man #537 is leaning to the opposite of what you beleive

http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/Spider-Man/Spider-Man-Crosshairs.jpg

[Harlekin]

What screwing up characters, so they get more publicity?
That's his strategy, yeah.

[LouFerignoDemon]

Well, in reality, that sort of stuff makes headline news.

[spideyboy_1111]

Except in BOTH cases there already WERE a lot of fans for both characters. Joey has no clue what his readers like. Take the marriage of MJ and Peter for instance.
Joey Q openly admits that Killing or Seperating MJ would be far worse then them married... so hes not touching them

[spideyboy_1111]

The cover to the Amazing Spider-Man #537 is leaning to the opposite of what you beleive

http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/Spider-Man/Spider-Man-Crosshairs.jpg
you cant judge a comic book by its cover.... they never put such blatent things.. and the death of MJ i would hope would have a better cover then that...


and imo... if anything MJ will be in the hospital.. or aunt may... wich is why peter goes into his black costume... MJ isn't dieing... you'd be a moron to do that.. esp after the split failed before

[KAD]

Just read Frontline....


Utter Garbage

[Darthphere]

Except in BOTH cases there already WERE a lot of fans for both characters. Joey has no clue what his readers like. Take the marriage of MJ and Peter for instance.


Define, lots.

[Varient]

But to make Speedball that?

That's like turning Squirrel Girl into a ****ty, half naked knife throwing assassin.
There were many things to do with Speedball after FRONTLINE, and I'm so far not convinced this was the best.

The picture wasn't kind in my minds eye of ol' bush tail.

mildly exciting,..... Gave me costume idea's,..... (ala Electra), but not very kind at all.


Her Gurlscout-cookie-selling persona would be ruined for good,

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4244&stc=1&d=1167942037

[Colossal Spoons]

Hey, I was surprised as I don't go fishing around for spoiled rumors. It'll be interestign to see how his new powers work in Thunderbolts next month. :up:

[Doc Destruction]

Define, lots.

As in many. How hard is it to define lots, silly billy?

[Doc Destruction]

I for one will hate it if they bastardize this character.

You mean when. And that day is today.

[Darthphere]

As in many. How hard is it to define lots, silly billy?


I don't know, going by the sales of their last books, lots could mean like 100, when in my mind lots is like 50,000.


And no, its not a sales equals quality argument, or a they didn't buy it because its a crappy book. If that were true, Wolverine Origins should be cancelled by now.

[Red]

DP, where's the Vaughan quote in your sig from?

[Doc Destruction]

I don't know, going by the sales of their last books, lots could mean like 100, when in my mind lots is like 50,000.


And no, its not a sales equals quality argument, or a they didn't buy it because its a crappy book. If that were true, Wolverine Origins should be cancelled by now.

The last New Warriors book was pond scum. People looked at that last series' art and said "no thank you". Thunderbolts started amazing with Hawkeye's appearance and fell apart quickly.

You want to make characters more appealing? Write them well. Look what it did for Moon Knight.

Origins is not that bad of a book. There have been far worse for Logan. Like 99% of his minis.

[Darthphere]

DP, where's the Vaughan quote in your sig from?


A myspace blog entry he made.

[Harlekin]

The last New Warriors series wasn't that bad and it had some pretty good art.

But you should at least be able to admit that Speedball/Hawkeye fans didn't become vocal until their impending death/actual death.

[LouFerignoDemon]

Like Antman and Black Goliath?

[Harlekin]

Like Antman and Black Goliath?
Those two are also pretty good cases of such a thing, IMO, although since they were a little less high-profile, less so.

[LouFerignoDemon]

Still, you didn't hear people vocalize about them until they were dead.

[Darthphere]

Like Antman and Black Goliath?


I expected more backlash for killing Goliath, at leats some accusations of racism. No fun.:csad:

[LouFerignoDemon]

There were a few accusations of racism.

[Harlekin]

Still, you didn't hear people vocalize about them until they were dead.
Yep, and in Goliath's case, when everyone feared he would die after becoming so prominent all of a sudden.

[LouFerignoDemon]

Exactly. I'm sure there are fans, but not like such a messload of them that we're aware of.

Iron Man, Captain America, Hulk, characters like those have huge fan bases.

[KAD]

You mean when. And that day is today.

It's a sad day for light hearted characters everywhere.

SG might be next.

Maybe she'll get rabies.

[LouFerignoDemon]

Or Iron Man. :(

[Red]

Yep, and in Goliath's case, when everyone feared he would die after becoming so prominent all of a sudden.

At least he got a moment to shine, plenty of C and D listers that get offed never do.

[Varient]

Those two are also pretty good cases of such a thing, IMO, although since they were a little less high-profile, less so.
Actually:

When Slott Brought him back in The Thing 8 issue series I was like:

YEAH!!! Fosters Back,... Cured his physical problems and now he's going to be a super-scientist hero that runs around with the Thing and Will be doing stuff with the Avengers and Stuff,....

Then they killed him going up against Clor.

Sigh.

I realize that one man's C or D character is another man's A+.

But I enjoyed Black Goliath at Project Pegasus,... I enjoyed when he fought Cage over Claire Temple At the Circus of Crime,....

I wanted him to be redeemed in much the way Bendis AND Hudlin took the time With Cage,... I know SLOTT would've done him justice.

You won't hear much more from me on this,.. because it rubbed me raw about the amount of noise that went on about Hawkeye when he died,...

But This "D" character was a "little" A character to me,.. who was never written as more as a bumbling alsoran behind Pym.


V.

[Harlekin]

Hey, I liked Black Goliath too, but what can you do? :(

[kainedamo]

Who the **** is Penance? Is he a horse man of Apocalypse???

[Harlekin]

Who the **** is Penance? Is he a horse man of Apocalypse???
I know how you feel Kaine, first posts are so... passé.

[Tropico]

The last New Warriors series wasn't that bad and it had some pretty good art.

But you should at least be able to admit that Speedball/Hawkeye fans didn't become vocal until their impending death/actual death.

Actually there was a thread with previews of some of the first pages of the first issue of Reality Bites. It was MONTHS before it even came out and 99% of the posters said they hated it and wished it was just a pitch and that it would never see print. The same thing happened when the first pages of CW came out.

I think Quesadilla mentioned once how he was doing the Speedball thing to get people to notice. He even mentioned what death did for Sue Dibny. The thing is, all of this attention the character is gathering isn't because he almost died, it's because they've given him an interesting storyline for more than half a dozen issues. So, how moronic do you have to be to realize THAT is what's getting the attention and not the announcement that a character is gonna die.

Oh, and just so people later on don't say that I wasn't vocal...I deplore what they did to the Speedball character (turning him into Penance). I haven't said anything because, frankly, I'm tired of the same crap happening. AND, like I said before, I'm kinda used to my fave characters getting the shaft. That's what happens when you don't choose the blockbuster characters for your faves.:(

[kainedamo]

I know how you feel Kaine, first posts are so... passé.


No, seriously, who the **** is Penance?

Yeah, I get that Speedball is the NEW Penance. But who or what was the original?

[LouFerignoDemon]

Who the **** is Penance? Is he a horse man of Apocalypse???

That would be Pestilence (sp?).

[Varient]

No, seriously, who the **** is Penance?

Yeah, I get that Speedball is the NEW Penance. But who or what was the original?
.............................M.................... .....

[LouFerignoDemon]

You'll need more than that.

Monet St. Croix, then was her younger twin sisters, and is now her own deal.

All from Generation X.

[Varient]

Hey, I liked Black Goliath too, but what can you do? :(
Just crying in my beer.

It wouldn't be so bad if they replaced all the ones they have been killing or locking up lately.

For example,... Hobby has not been the Prowler for Years,.....But they locked him up.

How Cum?

[kainedamo]

You'll need more than that.

Monet St. Croix, then was her younger twin sisters, and is now her own deal.

All from Generation X.


Thanks for that.

Yeah, by the way, I don't like the idea of this either.

Speedball getting off on pain, and releasing kinetic energy? Wearing this suit? Pain as a constant reminder of what happened in Stamford? It's insanely emo. It's like... Spawn or the Crow or something.

[Darthphere]

Actually there was a thread with previews of some of the first pages of the first issue of Reality Bites. It was MONTHS before it even came out and 99% of the posters said they hated it and wished it was just a pitch and that it would never see print. The same thing happened when the first pages of CW came out.

I think Quesadilla mentioned once how he was doing the Speedball thing to get people to notice. He even mentioned what death did for Sue Dibny. The thing is, all of this attention the character is gathering isn't because he almost died, it's because they've given him an interesting storyline for more than half a dozen issues. So, how moronic do you have to be to realize THAT is what's getting the attention and not the announcement that a character is gonna die.

Oh, and just so people later on don't say that I wasn't vocal...I deplore what they did to the Speedball character (turning him into Penance). I haven't said anything because, frankly, I'm tired of the same crap happening. AND, like I said before, I'm kinda used to my fave characters getting the shaft. That's what happens when you don't choose the blockbuster characters for your faves.:(

Cry me a ****ing river Tropico, cry me a ****ing river.:csad:

[Tropico]

Cry me a ****ing river Tropico, cry me a ****ing river.:csad:

Nah, there's enough crying and whining and fighting already what with the Marvel forum becoming the VERSUS forum now. In fact, the thing happening with Speedball is a perfect metaphor. Before, the Marvel forums where mostly a happy bouncing place with some problems (who doesn't) but something happened that wasn't it's fault and now it has to do Penance by torturing itself.

[Darthphere]

Nah, there's enough crying and whining and fighting already what with the Marvel forum becoming the VERSUS forum now. In fact, the thing happening with Speedball is a perfect metaphor. Before, the Marvel forums where mostly a happy bouncing place with some problems (who doesn't) but something happened that wasn't it's fault and now it has to do Penance by torturing itself.


I just dont know what to do anymore, you can pwn noobs all day, but they seem to enjoy it.:csad:

[Varient]

Nah, there's enough crying and whining and fighting already what with the Marvel forum becoming the VERSUS forum now. In fact, the thing happening with Speedball is a perfect metaphor. Before, the Marvel forums where mostly a happy bouncing place with some problems (who doesn't) but something happened that wasn't it's fault and now it has to do Penance by torturing itself.
Why couldn't the last three years of Marvel continuity just be a fever dream of the Scarlet Witch suffering from a Bad case of the Flu????

No:
Gwen Stacy : **** to the SuperVillians
"I was dressed out to be raped by a criminal" but was saved by Deux Machina BlackCat
"I have been upgraded three times and tweaked to match my Movie Persona Spiderman"
"Mostly dead" Thor
"I'm a butt" versions of Xaiver, Stark, and Richards.
Doctor Strange with "kung Fu Grip"
"Lets get Married w/o real time courtship" BP and Storm
Wolverine the unkillable
Paper-cut Sentinal on alternate tuesdays,..
"On again off Again Dead Hawkeye with Emo action."
I'm worth reading about Moonstone - but lets make her a vegatable - story.

Do I read a bit bitter??

[Tropico]

Why couldn't the last three years of Marvel continuity just be a fever dream of the Scarlet Witch suffering from a Bad case of the Flu????

No:
Gwen Stacy : **** to the SuperVillians
"I was dressed out to be raped by a criminal" but was saved by Deux Machina BlackCat
"I have been upgraded three times and tweaked to match my Movie Persona Spiderman"
"Mostly dead" Thor
"I'm a butt" versions of Xaiver, Stark, and Richards.
Doctor Strange with "kung Fu Grip"
"Lets get Married w/o real time courtship" BP and Storm
Wolverine the unkillable
Paper-cut Sentinal on alternate tuesdays,..
"On again off Again Dead Hawkeye with Emo action."
I'm worth reading about Moonstone - but lets make her a vegatable - story.

Do I read a bit bitter??

Yes, but in a hilarious way.:D

[Dread]

The picture wasn't kind in my minds eye of ol' bush tail.

mildly exciting,..... Gave me costume idea's,..... (ala Electra), but not very kind at all.


Her Gurlscout-cookie-selling persona would be ruined for good,

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4244&stc=1&d=1167942037
Not for nothin', but, I'm a bit disappointed that this romance went nowhere. It happened only months before CW #1 and I thought it was really cute. Unfortunately, as Baldwin's transformation shows, "cute" is the last thing Marvel wants now. Marvel's all about being dark and depressing, because it feels more real.

I read the issue, I'll respond in the B/T thread about it soon. I still maintain that while it wasn't a bad idea in theory to redesign Speedball a little, I think this was not the best way. They ripped off a video game design and made him a poster child for mashocist emo goths. Jenkins at least tries to make it work, but...I'm not totally sold on it. It just reaks of emotasm. Next he'll be sleeping with Superboy-Prime and asking him to "do one more punch so his friends can come back". :p

[LouFerignoDemon]

Why couldn't the last three years of Marvel continuity just be a fever dream of the Scarlet Witch suffering from a Bad case of the Flu????

No:
Gwen Stacy : **** to the SuperVillians
"I was dressed out to be raped by a criminal" but was saved by Deux Machina BlackCat
"I have been upgraded three times and tweaked to match my Movie Persona Spiderman"
"Mostly dead" Thor
"I'm a butt" versions of Xaiver, Stark, and Richards.
Doctor Strange with "kung Fu Grip"
"Lets get Married w/o real time courtship" BP and Storm
Wolverine the unkillable
Paper-cut Sentinal on alternate tuesdays,..
"On again off Again Dead Hawkeye with Emo action."
I'm worth reading about Moonstone - but lets make her a vegatable - story.

Do I read a bit bitter??

To be fair, you'd have to extend a few years to like sixty years to get rid of Kung Fu Strange.

[Varient]

To be fair, you'd have to extend a few years to like sixty years to get rid of Kung Fu Strange.
Really?
I really thought that was a recent retconn,...:wow:

[LouFerignoDemon]

Nah. Originally, he was taught martial arts by the Ancient One as part of his learnings.

Enough so that he was capable of successfully fighting the team up of Mantis and Black Panther.

[Anubis]

Yeah, Strange can throw down with the best of them.

[Varient]

Nah. Originally, he was taught martial arts by the Ancient One as part of his learnings.

Enough so that he was capable of successfully fighting the team up of Mantis and Black Panther.
Are you refering to the bus-stop fight?

That one read rigged,.. and I found it strange (pun intended) that Mantis did so poorly,.. this is sumbody who took down Thor,...
And the Panther?
Did better against Mephisto,.. what happened to the prep time?

I obviously missed his years of training in the martial arts,... OKAY,.. scratch that one off my list and replace it with:

"Emo Iron Fist and the Indian Maiden for 20 Pat."

[LouFerignoDemon]

Are you refering to the bus-stop fight?

That one read rigged,.. and I found it strange (pun intended) that Mantis did so poorly,.. this is sumbody who took down Thor,...
And the Panther?
Did better against Mephisto,.. what happened to the prep time?

I obviously missed his years of training in the martial arts,... OKAY,.. scratch that one off my list and replace it with:

"Emo Iron Fist and the Indian Maiden for 20 Pat."

I'm not exactly sure. It was in a Defenders. And a lot of his training wasn't really shown all that much in the early stuff. We kind of had to take it as he said it.

[CaptainStacy]

Are you refering to the bus-stop fight?

That one read rigged,.. and I found it strange (pun intended) that Mantis did so poorly,.. this is sumbody who took down Thor,...



Yeah, but whenever she pulled one of her temper tantrums, Thor and the other Avengers were always hesitant to seriously fight her. Look how easily her father, Libra dropped her, and the Avengers used to kick his and the other Zodiac's asses on a regular basis.

[AndThePickles]

Penance is.......interesting. I think it's really sad that poor Speedball's mind got messed with so much that he's developed such a complex. He went from knowing he wasn't the one who killed those kids to wearing a costume that will cause him constant pain to remind him of the deaths?! Oy :(

[deemar325]

Meh, I don't think so. I think Joey Q was expressly doing all of the I-hate-Speedball rants in order to drum up interest and get people riled up. He knew it would make Speedball more popular than he's ever been. Just look at what happened when Hawkeye was killed off. Suddenly, people who had barely hurt of the character started touting him as their favourite. Joey Q basically got that reaction without needing to kill Speedy off.

Heres the thing a good chunk of readers at least those of my generation who came up in the late 80s and 90s already loved Speedball and the rest of the New Warriors, if some one just took the time to do the book justice and the characters in general we wouldn't need Speedball as Penance.

If Mark Millar or Bendis or any one of these hot**** writers said,"You know what? I dig Speedball and Rage and Justice ...etc..I think I'm gonna write a badass NW ongoing!" New Warriors would be a top twenty book right now.

[Kotagg]

Just got finished reading Frontlines #10, and I was extremely impressed. The story was well-written and really conveyed the pain and internal torment Robbie's been put through.

So, I guess I'm saying that I like Penance. Maybe even better than Speedball. Character progression is character progression, negative or positive. I see him growing as a character.

Second, he looks almost nothing like Voldo - I really don't see any comparison.

[Speedball]

I just read Frontline #10.
I guess Speedball is dead...:(
His creation was deeply disturbing, yet very inspirational.

[Dope Nose]

I'm sorry but that costume is just ridiculous. I've only seen a few scans from Front Line but is it explained why that tailor to the super bunch would even design a costume like that? was it at Robbie's request? also, wouldn't there be a tremendous amount of blood loss?

[Speedball]

I'm sorry but that costume is just ridiculous. I've only seen a few scans from Front Line but is it explained why that tailor to the super bunch would even design a costume like that? was it at Robbie's request? also, wouldn't there be a tremendous amount of blood loss?
Yes to everything.

[Joker]

if he constantly wears the suit, as we're to believe he is, he would eventually clot up and start to heal around the spikes, so he wouldnt bleed, but he'd still be in constant pain from the metal jamming into him

[Tropico]

Just got finished reading Frontlines #10, and I was extremely impressed. The story was well-written and really conveyed the pain and internal torment Robbie's been put through.

So, I guess I'm saying that I like Penance. Maybe even better than Speedball. Character progression is character progression, negative or positive. I see him growing as a character.

Second, he looks almost nothing like Voldo - I really don't see any comparison.

Really? You don't?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/DDude/hearts15voldo.jpg

[PenanceRises]

What a great intro for a character.
I'll miss little old Speedball, but I'm glad they allowed for his character to evolve instead of letting him die.
Now all we need to know is if he is a villian or a hero?

[PWN3R]

I kinda like the concept of the new change to Speedball, but the outfit just destroys it. I mean he looks like some S & M freak.

[Specter313]

if he constantly wears the suit, as we're to believe he is, he would eventually clot up and start to heal around the spikes, so he wouldnt bleed, but he'd still be in constant pain from the metal jamming into him

That's kinda the whole point.

[Colossal Spoons]

Do his new powers have anything to do with the pain?

[Badfish40oz]

I'm gonna build a suit with spikes inside, a spike for each post that *****es about characters being changed or dying, characters people more than likely didn't even really know about before Civil War . .

NAMORITA!!! WHY! WHY YOU!!!!!!!!!!

[AndThePickles]

Do his new powers have anything to do with the pain?

The pain seemed to be what sparked his powers. For example, in issue #9 in the prison when one of the prisoners was hurting him, Robbie got this devilish grin and said "I like it," and then his powers started glowing and the place exploded.

[Specter313]

Do his new powers have anything to do with the pain?

Yes, that's what causes them to activate.

[PWN3R]

the prisoners was hurting him, Robbie got this devilish grin and said "I like it,"

Yeah that part was disturbing, especially with the guy right behind him.

[Colossal Spoons]

:ninja:

[Kotagg]

Ahh, I see it Tropico. It's just that I've never seen THAT Voldo outfit, as it's not the regular one. That an alternate you can earn in the game?

And really - it's not like spikey outfits or faceless helmets are unique to him...but the combo does seem a little coincedental.

[Harlekin]

Actually there was a thread with previews of some of the first pages of the first issue of Reality Bites. It was MONTHS before it even came out and 99% of the posters said they hated it and wished it was just a pitch and that it would never see print. The same thing happened when the first pages of CW came out.
I actually erased that series from my memory. :embarrassed: I was thinking of the second volume that introduced Aegis. The Reality Bites thing sucked, agreed.

[Harlekin]

Went and read Frontline #10. Damn, that was emo-rific.

[Red]

EMO!
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/Red_X123/Speedballemo.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/Red_X123/speedballemo2.jpg

[LouFerignoDemon]

I kinda like the concept of the new change to Speedball, but the outfit just destroys it. I mean he looks like some S & M freak.

You make that sound like a bad thing.

[PWN3R]

You make that sound like a bad thing.


:ninja::hyper:

Just not for Speedball. I'm just saying Jenkins was really making me like him. I might pick up the first issue of Ellis's T-Bolts now. Might. Maybe. I dunno.:csad:

[Darthphere]

EMO!
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/Red_X123/Speedballemo.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/Red_X123/speedballemo2.jpg

Emo-tasm!:wow: :wow: :wow:

[LouFerignoDemon]

:ninja::hyper:

Just not for Speedball. I'm just saying Jenkins was really making me like him. I might pick up the first issue of Ellis's T-Bolts now. Might. Maybe. I dunno.:csad:

Sounds to me you have a thing against the s/M scene. :o

[Anubis]

It's fun to be whipped!

[KAD]

Sounds to me you have a thing against the s/M scene. :o


I have nothing against the scene just palcing a light hearted fun loving character in it.

[Anubis]

Even light hearted, fun loving characters can be naughty....

[LouFerignoDemon]

It's fun to be whipped!


People wonder where the "Mistress" part of my name came from. :woot:


j/k

[LouFerignoDemon]

I have nothing against the scene just palcing a light hearted fun loving character in it.

I'm joking. Don't stress it.

[Dread]

Emo-tasm!:wow: :wow: :wow:

Agreed. My own thoughts on the issue, reposted: Unlike CIVIL WAR, Jenkin's 2nd rank tie-in has a much more intricate plot and is much better at keeping most of their secrets, 'cept the part where Speedball becomes Voldo, erm, "Penace" (and technically the 2nd or 3rd Penance). His new kinetic powers react to pain, especially with the hot lead lodged in his spine. He pardons his shooter while dedicating his life to attoning for the tragedy of Stamford, which he seems to finally believe was his fault...by giving himself as much phyical pain until he drops dead. Good LORD, you can't get more gothie emo than that. And so what once was a comedic Ditko hero who bounced about, made quips and swapped spit with the adorable Squirrel Girl has now been turned into a Marliyn Manson music video (right down to burning his old costume). It reminds me of the 1990's where the "way" to revamp someone was to make them "scary", edgy, pointier, put the name "Blood" or "death" in their name (or words that mean it), etc. Surely after FRONTLINE and CW, Speedball needed some sort of rework, I just think this is the wrong tic and it's a bit overkill into making him a masochist, emo freak who may as well paint his nails black and hang out in Grenwich Villiage "vampire" clubs. Plus, why is is working with outright villians in Thunderbolts? Urgh.

And yes, he is SO Voldo from SC III. Here I thought only Joe Mad blatently ripped off video games.

[LouFerignoDemon]

Maybe because he's in love with Voldo?

[KAD]

I'm joking. Don't stress it.

I wasn't the original poster and I take very little seriously but mess with characters and watch out

[Dope Nose]

from this week's Joe Fridays -

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/1782/tbolts111016colcv0.jpg

given the effect the Stamford Incident had on the character, doesn't destroying a city block seem a little strange?

[PWN3R]

People wonder where the "Mistress" part of my name came from. :woot:

:meow:

from this week's Joe Fridays -

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/1782/tbolts111016colcv0.jpg

given the effect the Stamford Incident on the character, doesn't destroying a city block seem a little strange?

Maybe he is in the danger room?:csad:

[Dread]

Given that the Avengers disbanded because a member (Scarlet Witch) was horribly powered and unstable, does it make sense to reassemble a team that has both Wolverine and the Sentry, who both have had berserker, unstable moments (or have been mentally tampered with)? For chrissakes, Sentry went wacky on them in less than 8 issues.

Shock value relaunches defy logic. Logic is for sissies! :rolleyes:

[PWN3R]

I just want to know why the mess would he work with villians?

[Speedball]

I just want to know why the mess would he work with villians?
Probably because no one know who the hell is in the suit. He said that before he put the mask on, that would be the last time his mother would see him, I'm guessing it would be the last time ANYONE sees him.
He looks like a villian, so I would assume everyone else considers him a villian.
And look at the pic, he's destroying cars on the streets of what is probably New York and threatening innocent lives, that's pretty villianous.

[Anubis]

I don't see any innocent lives, just a bunch of cars. :o

Besides, it's government sponsored mayhem. Which is allowed apparently.

[Red]

Agreed. My own thoughts on the issue, reposted:
Unlike CIVIL WAR, Jenkin's 2nd rank tie-in has a much more intricate plot and is much better at keeping most of their secrets, 'cept the part where Speedball becomes Voldo, erm, "Penace" (and technically the 2nd or 3rd Penance). His new kinetic powers react to pain, especially with the hot lead lodged in his spine. He pardons his shooter while dedicating his life to attoning for the tragedy of Stamford, which he seems to finally believe was his fault...by giving himself as much phyical pain until he drops dead. Good LORD, you can't get more gothie emo than that. And so what once was a comedic Ditko hero who bounced about, made quips and swapped spit with the adorable Squirrel Girl has now been turned into a Marliyn Manson music video (right down to burning his old costume). It reminds me of the 1990's where the "way" to revamp someone was to make them "scary", edgy, pointier, put the name "Blood" or "death" in their name (or words that mean it), etc. Surely after FRONTLINE and CW, Speedball needed some sort of rework, I just think this is the wrong tic and it's a bit overkill into making him a masochist, emo freak who may as well paint his nails black and hang out in Grenwich Villiage "vampire" clubs. Plus, why is is working with outright villians in Thunderbolts? Urgh.
And yes, he is SO Voldo from SC III. Here I thought only Joe Mad blatently ripped off video games.


I couldn't remember Voldo's costume, so I had to google it and Dread's right:


http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/Red_X123/hearts15voldo.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/Red_X123/speedballemo2.jpg

[yenaled]

Hahaha. That's just silly.

He's going to get venom to kick him in the balls before every fight.

[stillanerd]

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/Red_X123/speedballemo2.jpg

THOUGHT BALLON OF THE GUY IN THE BACKGROUND: Man, what a dork. Somebody just shoot me so I won't have to put up with this, please?

[yenaled]

The guy in the background really is ashamed.

[Foggy Nelson]

The guy in the background really is ashamed.

Yeah, I felt.. odd.. just reading that. That would be so wierd helping him put it on with all the blood and stuff, knowing what it could do to a person.

He should be ashamed.

[Eros]

The guy in the background really is ashamed.

looks like hes doeing his best to stop himself form laughing

[stillanerd]

The guy in the background really is ashamed.

So would you if you were the one who contributed to Speedball's descent into emo-ness. :) By itself, the guy just looks like he can either be ashamed, in total disbelief over how lame this all is exhausted from lack of sleep, or has a migrane. Hence my hypotechical thought balloon to use as a comment on the fact that, yes, despite Robbie now using an S&M bonage suit to get all powered up and going "Woe is me. It's all my fault, I'm so riddled with angst" he's STILL a dork...probably even more of dork than he was originally.

[Specter313]

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=96554

[kainedamo]

Yeah, I felt.. odd.. just reading that. That would be so wierd helping him put it on with all the blood and stuff, knowing what it could do to a person.

He should be ashamed.

LOL!

I thought it was a really good issue. It's written very well, its a good character arc. Its quite ****ed up for that man to help Robbie put on that suit.

But you guys have an interesting perspective on what the man was thinking.

[BrianWilly]

I'm so sick of ex-heroes who all of a sudden think that it's somehow a bright idea to join up with villains' teams. Y'know, for redemption or something. Atom Smasher did it in 52 over at DC and it's just as stupid over there, too.

Okay, look: these people are villains. How are you possibly so brain-daft as to think that this could possibly work out okay? "Hey, look...murderers and convicts and rapists. I'm voluntarily going on a team with them? Nothing could possibly go wrong! I'll just work with them and redeem myself and everything will be jolly good again!"

But hey, this is the Marvel universe where everyone hates heroes and loves villains, and Quesada's idea of "fun" and "interesting" -- his own words -- is to take a formerly happy and positive character and turn him into a self-mutilating psycho. It's not just that he's masochistic, it's that he's psychotic.

Speaking of which...Robbie has no healing factor. If he's never going to take off the suit, how the hell is he going to keep from dying every time he stands up?

[kainedamo]

I'm so sick of ex-heroes who all of a sudden think that it's somehow a bright idea to join up with villains' teams. Y'know, for redemption or something. Atom Smasher did it in 52 over at DC and it's just as stupid over there, too.

Okay, look: these people are villains. How are you possibly so brain-daft as to think that this could possibly work out okay? "Hey, look...murderers and convicts and rapists. I'm voluntarily going on a team with them? Nothing could possibly go wrong! I'll just work with them and redeem myself and everything will be jolly good again!"

But hey, this is the Marvel universe where everyone hates heroes and loves villains, and Quesada's idea of "fun" and "interesting" -- his own words -- is to take a formerly happy and positive character and turn him into a self-mutilating psycho. It's not just that he's masochistic, it's that he's psychotic.

Speaking of which...Robbie has no healing factor. If he's never going to take off the suit, how the hell is he going to keep from dying every time he stands up?

It pierces the skin, it doesn't rip the flesh from his bones.

[BrianWilly]

If skin is pierced every single time you move with more than 600 spikes, and you're going to be moving around a lot as an offensive fighting squad, and you never administer any medical attention...how long are you liable to last? Two or three days?

[kainedamo]

If skin is pierced every single time you move with more than 600 spikes, and you're going to be moving around a lot as an offensive fighting squad, and you never administer any medical attention...how long are you liable to last? Two or three days?

Good point!

Though at this point, he kinda seems a little suicidal.

[BrianWilly]

I mean, obviously I get that he has to take off some of that costume at some point to eat or drink or expel waste or whatever, it's really not like it's now a second skin or something...unless what's happening is that he doesn't actually plan on eating or drinking or expelling wastehttp://i2.tinypic.com/zv4v2g.gif. That'd be really psycho.

Either way, the point remains that the whole costume idea definitely gets marked down in the "Probably Should Have Thought This Through More" list.

[Darthphere]

Okay, look: these people are villains. How are you possibly so brain-daft as to think that this could possibly work out okay? "Hey, look...murderers and convicts and rapists. I'm voluntarily going on a team with them? Nothing could possibly go wrong! I'll just work with them and redeem myself and everything will be jolly good again!"

But hey, this is the Marvel universe where everyone hates heroes and loves villains, and Quesada's idea of "fun" and "interesting" -- his own words -- is to take a formerly happy and positive character and turn him into a self-mutilating psycho. It's not just that he's masochistic, it's that he's psychotic.

Well its more of a trend in comics lately, it all goes back to Jason Todd IMO. Though, you can balme the Lazarus Pit for that, and more recently, Cassandra Cain, which they decided to go against the overly simple Lazarus Pit explanation.

[BrianWilly]

Eh, I hated Jason Todd coming back, but if he's going to come back at all then him becoming an ass is pretty much to be expected. And Cassandra Cain, no matter how travesty-tastic the travesty that was committed against her, was never really very shiny and happy in the first place.

The best example in DC right now would be Bart Allen turning from impulsive mophead bouncing ball into CRAAAWWLING IN MY SPANDEX my-artificial-knees-ache-with-the-loss-of-my-innocence twentysomething. And even he does not come close, not even a little, to Robbie Baldwin the self-cutting psychopath.

[jaydawg]

Man I cant wait for someone to bring Speedball back to being, well..... Speedball.

[Darthphere]

Marvel did the impossible, they made Speedball suck.....even more.

[Dread]

Marvel did the impossible, they made Speedball suck.....even more.

No, what they did was even worse. What they did was boost interest, put him through a major life milestone, and when given the chance to really revamp him into a stronger, better character...dropped the ball.

Good idea. Terrible execution. Something that Joe Q's Marvel is becoming skilled at from 2006 in many areas.

[Speedball]

Man I cant wait for someone to bring Speedball back to being, well..... Speedball.
I can't wait for it too...Too bad he'll be scared beyond recognizition.
Oh What the Hell! This is comic book land we're talking about, he'll be back one way or another.
And I'll make sure of it:cmad: :cmad: :cmad:

[Darthphere]

No, what they did was even worse. What they did was boost interest, put him through a major life milestone, and when given the chance to really revamp him into a stronger, better character...dropped the ball.

Good idea. Terrible execution. Something that Joe Q's Marvel is becoming skilled at from 2006 in many areas.

Yeah, like I said.

[supermarvelman]

Does anybody else think that after a couple years Robbie will ditch the whole Penance shtick? Also gaining full control of his powers again, could he be pulling a Iceman and supressing and putting limitaions on his own powers.

[Darthphere]

Does anybody else think that after a couple years Robbie will ditch the whole Penance shtick?

I mean, he's supposedly dying so no, but how long can someone punish themsleves like that.

[supermarvelman]

Do you really think he will die? I dont think so. Like I said I think Robbie is putting limitations on his on abilities, eventually when he's over the Thunderbolts and being an emo ***** he will realize that he does not need to feel pain to use his powers, he wont die.

[LouFerignoDemon]

I don't think he's dying, but his spine is degrading. Though he said he's going to heal or something.

[supermarvelman]

Robbie will eventually be Speedball again, but he will be much more mature and aware of consiquences. Kinda like the transformation Nova has gone through since Annhilation

[LouFerignoDemon]

I doubt it. If he keeps holding the shame for those kids deaths (Which he should be doing, just in not such an emo way), I doubt he'll go back to the identity that he associates with it.


But then again, Hank conciously chose to go back to Yellowjacket.

[supermarvelman]

I think he will always remember what happened, but I still think eventually he will move on and become Speedball again. Yes kinda like Hank choosing to be YellowJacket.

[LouFerignoDemon]

Eh. He needs to drop the emo.

[supermarvelman]

And when he does he will become Speedball again.

[deemar325]

No, what they did was even worse. What they did was boost interest, put him through a major life milestone, and when given the chance to really revamp him into a stronger, better character...dropped the ball.

Good idea. Terrible execution. Something that Joe Q's Marvel is becoming skilled at from 2006 in many areas.


That pretty much sums it up Dread. If ..if they would have simply loss some of the camp Speedball had and matured him abit with the events of CW and upgraded his costume (McNiven could have knocked out a new design for Speedy) That would have led to a badass New Warriors title or solo Speedball ongoing/mini with some bite to it.

Nope we get 'Pain Boy':csad:

[supermarvelman]

That is the way they should've gone, this I totally agree with you Deem

[deemar325]

Love all around.

It's funny I think whats happened to Speedball would have been a better fit for Nightthrasher.

[deemar325]

It still would have sucked, but it would have made more sense.

[Vanguard07]

I kinda enjoy when ANY character goes crazy which is how i view speedball's current choices.
It makes them seem more enjoyable to me.

Sidenote: This is my first drunken post.... now I feel like a REAL SHH member. Even though it took me ten minutes to type this.

[Speedball]

I kinda enjoy when ANY character goes crazy which is how i view speedball's current choices.
It makes them seem more enjoyable to me.

Sidenote: This is my first drunken post.... now I feel like a REAL SHH member. Even though it took me ten minutes to type this.
HAH! It would have taken my brother an hour to type this sober.

[Vanguard07]

lol! go you're brother!

It seems that my typing speed suffers but I still spellcheck.
Now it seems only my actual post content is in question.

[PWN3R]

I mean, obviously I get that he has to take off some of that costume at some point to eat or drink or expel waste or whatever, it's really not like it's now a second skin or something...unless what's happening is that he doesn't actually plan on eating or drinking or expelling wastehttp://i2.tinypic.com/zv4v2g.gif. That'd be really psycho.

Either way, the point remains that the whole costume idea definitely gets marked down in the "Probably Should Have Thought This Through More" list.

:up::up:

The more I think about Penance, the more crazy it seems. I mean I know superhero comic's all have a heavy degree of stretching reality, but this is absurd. And it's clear he needs help putting the costume on, so whenever he eats or #2's(:(), he has to have someone help him put it back on? Riiiiight.:huh:

And I'm sure if someone asked this for New Joe Friday's, Q-Man would just say something stupid like, "The pain keeps him going, he doesn't need to do those things anymore, lol." In his usual high and mighty sucks at humor fashion.:whatever:

[Vanguard07]

Well wasnt Speedball's body supposed to be composed entirely out of kinetic energy? It was earlier speculated that he may be impossible to kill and would not need to eat, drink or breathe due to his unique composition.

[LouFerignoDemon]

Something tells me it's only hard the first time around, like contacts or something.

[PWN3R]

Something tells me it's only hard the first time around, like contacts or something.

Something tells me:

NEXTWAVE is in fact the ONLY Marvel comic published in the last three years that's in 616 continuity. All the others are fakes.

[deemar325]

I kinda enjoy when ANY character goes crazy which is how i view speedball's current choices.
It makes them seem more enjoyable to me.

Sidenote: This is my first drunken post.... now I feel like a REAL SHH member. Even though it took me ten minutes to type this.

Now your a real boy!! :hyper:

[Vanguard07]

Now your a real boy!! :hyper:

LoL between this and the nickname you've given me I can die happy.
(provided I get the Viking funeral I asked for dammit!)
thank you deemar!

[deemar325]

V-Gee it's Dee Mee so drink Beer and Pee Hee.

I'm indulging in a little spirits myself brotha.

[deemar325]

Cheers!

[Vanguard07]

Cheers!

Cheers indeed buddy! I've had 13 beers in the last 2 hours.
And I'm Canadian so that's almost a feat.

Go Canadian beer!

[deemar325]

Canadian beer ain't bad it ain't good, but it's drinkable.

Me I'm sippin' on some Knob Creek with some cola and lime.

[Vanguard07]

Well being Canadian, Candadian beer's what I grew up with.
Thus I love it.

I'm not familiar with knob creek.

[deemar325]

Good ol' cheap whiskey it burns your barrell (chest) and roasts your peace pipe (throat) it's pretty rank stuff but it does the job.

[LouFerignoDemon]

I prefer cleaner bourbons. A taste I picked up from my stay in America.

[Vanguard07]

Good ol' cheap whiskey it burns your barrell (chest) and roasts your peace pipe (throat) it's pretty rank stuff but it does the job.

Sounds good to me.
I do love whiskey.
I'm a Canadian of Irish descent. Any beer or whiskey you put in front of me i'll drink as much of as you got.

[deemar325]

Sounds good to me.
I do love whiskey.
I'm a Canadian of Irish descent. Any beer or whiskey you put in front of me i'll drink as much of as you got.

Heres to Canucks,Yankees,Frogs and whomever is holdin it down on the SHH! :word:

[Vanguard07]

Agreed! and here's to beer and deemar!

[deemar325]

TO V-GEE!!!

damn I'm lit.

[Harlekin]

The hope of Penance becoming Speedball again is in vain. Either Ellis kills him when he inevitably leaves the Thunderbolts title or he's killed in his next appearance afterwards. I don't think anyone would actually like to write a guy like this. I'm betting on his death in the end of 2007 or around summer time 2008.

But I don't really care, because Speedball is dead to me anyway.

[kainedamo]

Don't you people like ANYTHING Marvel does??

I mean, Frontline was well written throughout. Robbie had a good arc. And now we have a character thats kinda like Spawn or The Crow or something. The potential for future stories is immense!

[Harlekin]

I love quite a few things that Marvel does. The complete and total assrapage of a great character though, sorry if I'm not up and jumping while blowing my wad. I can see the future story potential, I'm not blind. Doesn't mean I like that particular potential though.

[kainedamo]

Yeah, I get where you're coming from. Its not a big deal for me, I was never a big fan of Robbie before.

[Darthphere]

Here's a question though. Does Robbie plan on taking a piss or ****ting anytime soon?

[kainedamo]

Wasn't the Scorpion welded into his own costume at some point?? *shrugs*

[Kitsune]

I'm wondering if Robbie is wearing a ballgag under that thing.

[kainedamo]

Maybe he has a dildo in there somewhere too. But shhh, this is a family board!

[BrianWilly]

There's nothing that families need more than a good dildo.

[Varient]

eh,...
he will DIE if he wears that suit for more than two days and gets into a serious bru-ha with superpowered foes,... and i'm not even including infection, blood poisoning, and the fact that he has damage from being shot.....

Exactly "why" did reed spend so little effort trying to help him?

[Doc Destruction]

Don't you people like ANYTHING Marvel does??

Flawed argument. Of course we do, or elese we wouldn't be reading.

We ARE however allowed to complain about things that suck. So deal with it.

[Varient]

Flawed argument. Of course we do, or elese we wouldn't be reading.

We ARE however allowed to complain about things that suck. So deal with it.
heh heh,.....that was well stated,... if a lil harsh.

[Darthphere]

Flawed argument. Of course we do, or elese we wouldn't be reading.

We ARE however allowed to complain about things that suck. So deal with it.

But in his defense, in your case, all you do is complain.:o

[Kotagg]

Penance > Speedball

Marvel Now > Past Marvel of any timeframe

Opinion stated.

Discuss.

[kainedamo]

Well, I stated in a different thread that if Avengers: Under Siege had never been written, and were released right now, written word for word but by Bendis...

Today's fans would tear the story apart. It's the truth.

[Harlekin]

I sincerely doubt that.

[kainedamo]

I sincerely doubt that.

No. Seriously. There are flaws in that book that today's Internet generation would be alllllllllllll over and blowing out of proportion.

[supermarvelman]

I still dont think Robbie will die anytime soon.

[Speedball]

I still dont think Robbie will die anytime soon.
No matter what Joe Q does, it ain't gonna happen.

[Doc Destruction]

But in his defense, in your case, all you do is complain.:o

FAR from the truth.

[Doc Destruction]

No. Seriously. There are flaws in that book that today's Internet generation would be alllllllllllll over and blowing out of proportion.

I'd take that bet.

[Dread]

"How does he get out of it" didn't stop Rhino from being "trapped" in his suit for years. Granted, Penance is self-afflicting and that is one of those details I doubt was planned. Unless Ellis is setting up a future toilet joke.

BrainWilly's post also reminded me of how most versions of the Suicide Squad always had some token "heroic" or "non criminal soldier" character on the roster. And, yeah, it makes no sense to see a hero try to redeem himself on a team with vicious crooks, but maybe they feel they won't judge. And besides, anti-heroes are trendy. They're "it". Better to make a villian heroic than to try to launch a geniune new hero, or at least that is the formula circa 1994.

[ShadowBoxing]

The cover to the Amazing Spider-Man #537 is leaning to the opposite of what you beleive

http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/Spider-Man/Spider-Man-Crosshairs.jpg
C'mon, honestly you've been reading comics long enough now to know how many times heroes, villains, and their supporting cast members end up in snipe sites and nothing happens to them.

I mean if this meant anything Batman would be dead by now.

[supermarvelman]

"How does he get out of it" didn't stop Rhino from being "trapped" in his suit for years. Granted, Penance is self-afflicting and that is one of those details I doubt was planned. Unless Ellis is setting up a future toilet joke.


BrainWilly's post also reminded me of how most versions of the Suicide Squad always had some token "heroic" or "non criminal soldier" character on the roster. And, yeah, it makes no sense to see a hero try to redeem himself on a team with vicious crooks, but maybe they feel they won't judge. And besides, anti-heroes are trendy. They're "it". Better to make a villian heroic than to try to launch a geniune new hero, or at least that is the formula circa 1994.


Obviously Robbie wants to redeem himself, but maybe he chooses to be with the Thunderbolts because he truely see's himself as one of them since what happened in Stamford. At first he didn't think it was his fault and wouldn't join the pro-regs side, then all of a sudden he decides to sign up, maybe he really thinks and believes it was partly his fault, and that he deserves to be around similar people. We might not agree with him, but maybe thats his way of punishing himself besides the Voldo suit.

I also think that Songbird, Swordsman, and R-Man have proven to be heroes.

[supermarvelman]

C'mon, honestly you've been reading comics long enough now to know how many times heroes, villains, and their supporting cast members end up in snipe sites and nothing happens to them.

I mean if this meant anything Batman would be dead by now.


Punisher is gonna save the day on this one.

[Dread]

C'mon, honestly you've been reading comics long enough now to know how many times heroes, villains, and their supporting cast members end up in snipe sites and nothing happens to them.

I mean if this meant anything Batman would be dead by now.

Very true.

However, the very fact that Joe Q has been bemoaning the Parker marriage all year, has been pining for some way to end it, and now is getting coy in interviews about how "great" tragedies are to characters because it makes them "grow", then I understand how many readers would be extra concerned. The murder or maiming of supporting characters for dramatic effect is no longer the exception it was in the 70's, but an almost overdone rule. IDENTITY CRISIS' success made that point clear for the 21st century.

[supermarvelman]

If I had to choose between MJ and AM, I would choose Aunt May. She is the last actual family that Peter has, I mean she has to die oneday, plus it wouldn't break up MJ and Peter. And yes there is no doubt Peter would grow from an experience like that.

[deemar325]

Don't you people like ANYTHING Marvel does??

I mean, Frontline was well written throughout. Robbie had a good arc. And now we have a character thats kinda like Spawn or The Crow or something. The potential for future stories is immense!

Kainedamo I like ya, but that is really insane!!

"Kinda like Spawn? The Crow? It's not 1992. Robbie is not a grim avenger type this character has been broken beyond all repair.

I was looking forward to a more mature, seasoned Speedball and what we get is Marylin Manson.

[supermarvelman]

I really think that he will eventually become Speedball again.

[Dread]

If I had to choose between MJ and AM, I would choose Aunt May. She is the last actual family that Peter has, I mean she has to die oneday, plus it wouldn't break up MJ and Peter. And yes there is no doubt Peter would grow from an experience like that.

The only problem? Marvel already did that. ASM #400. Aunt May died a poetic death due to age and had a heartfelt farewell to Peter Parker that many considered to be classic. But that was in the midst of the Clone mess. Mackie never could replace her dynamic and basically trucked out MJ's Aunt Anna to imitate May. Then he caved to pressure and revived May in just about the stupidest, most conveluted way that didn't include clones (and may actually have worked out better if they had). And even after all that May proceeded to do nothing until JMS got cracking.

It would seem like a rehash.

Themanofbat has a theory about what may happen, and I'll let him repost it, but it makes a lot of sense and I could see it as possible.

[Dread]

Kainedamo I like ya, but that is really insane!!

"Kinda like Spawn? The Crow? It's not 1992. Robbie is not a grim avenger type this character has been broken beyond all repair.

I was looking forward to a more mature, seasoned Speedball and what we get is Marylin Manson.
EXACTLY! That explains my frustation to a T. Marvel went with something that maybe would have worked 6-7 years ago and now just seems like emo overkill. Even that Voldo design is, what, 2 years old? Way to be "modern".

Speedball was on track to grow up and instead he became a poster child for emo, gothic, grim overkill. Good idea, sloppy execution.

[gildea]

The recent x-axis does a great bit on the whole speedball penance thing.

[deemar325]

EXACTLY! That explains my frustation to a T. Marvel went with something that maybe would have worked 6-7 years ago and now just seems like emo overkill. Even that Voldo design is, what, 2 years old? Way to be "modern".

Speedball was on track to grow up and instead he became a poster child for emo, gothic, grim overkill. Good idea, sloppy execution.


It does feel like 1996 with the crap they pulled with Robbie.

My thing was if they simply let Speedball change emotionly and learned to take his job as a superhero seriously, it would have lead to a true New Warriors revival. Nightthrasher and Namorita dying aside it could have really brought a sense of mission to the Warriors and Robbie personnaly.

Hell even if Speedball had died at least NW would have a awesome jumping on point and premise 'REDEMPTION'

I cannot for the life of me see how 'Emo' Robbie is gonna make him anything other than a weird footnote in Marvel continuity.

[supermarvelman]

The only problem? Marvel already did that. ASM #400. Aunt May died a poetic death due to age and had a heartfelt farewell to Peter Parker that many considered to be classic. But that was in the midst of the Clone mess. Mackie never could replace her dynamic and basically trucked out MJ's Aunt Anna to imitate May. Then he caved to pressure and revived May in just about the stupidest, most conveluted way that didn't include clones (and may actually have worked out better if they had). And even after all that May proceeded to do nothing until JMS got cracking.

It would seem like a rehash.

Themanofbat has a theory about what may happen, and I'll let him repost it, but it makes a lot of sense and I could see it as possible.

Yes it would seem like a rehash, but it would be better than killing of MJ, plus like I already said Aunt May is old she has to die eventually, it does suck that they did it right the first time and then ****ed it up, but that doesn't mean Aunt May should become immortal, whether she's dies or not she will have to one day, and its sad that it will probably never be done as good as it had already been done.

[supermarvelman]

EXACTLY! That explains my frustation to a T. Marvel went with something that maybe would have worked 6-7 years ago and now just seems like emo overkill. Even that Voldo design is, what, 2 years old? Way to be "modern".

Speedball was on track to grow up and instead he became a poster child for emo, gothic, grim overkill. Good idea, sloppy execution.


Doesnt anybody feel like this is kinda like the iron Spidey suit, it will not last forever, for the 100th time he will eventually become Speedball again, and he will be a mature and responsible hero, he will be the hero everybody thought he would be after Civil War.

[Eros]

Doesnt anybody feel like this is kinda like the iron Spidey suit, it will not last forever, for the 100th time he will eventually become Speedball again, and he will be a mature and responsible hero, he will be the hero everybody thought he would be after Civil War.

who thought he would be anything after civil war anyway?:huh:

[deemar325]

Doesnt anybody feel like this is kinda like the iron Spidey suit, it will not last forever, for the 100th time he will eventually become Speedball again, and he will be a mature and responsible hero, he will be the hero everybody thought he would be after Civil War.

I hope your right, but dude how can you expect Robbie to go back to Bouncy Speedball after the torture suit?

[ShadowBoxing]

This is the most interesting thing they've done with Speedball in years. Although the costume is rather grotesque, and I'm not really feeling it.

[ShadowBoxing]

Punisher is gonna save the day on this one.
That would be a great way to do the next issue.

[Dread]

Yes it would seem like a rehash, but it would be better than killing of MJ, plus like I already said Aunt May is old she has to die eventually, it does suck that they did it right the first time and then ****ed it up, but that doesn't mean Aunt May should become immortal, whether she's dies or not she will have to one day, and its sad that it will probably never be done as good as it had already been done.

I am not convinced Marvel has learned from history. Besides, with everything in CW it would be seen as yet another cheap shock value stunt to get Peter in the black costume and acting all dark in time for the film.

Doesnt anybody feel like this is kinda like the iron Spidey suit, it will not last forever, for the 100th time he will eventually become Speedball again, and he will be a mature and responsible hero, he will be the hero everybody thought he would be after Civil War.
It's possible that someone could salvage Speedball a year or so after CW, if he survives it all, once everything has cooled down and cooler heads can prevail.

I'm not ungrateful that Marvel tried with Speedball this year. Just after all the hype I expected it to be much better and not just rip off a game design and rehash stuff that would have been in vogue in 1996. The way I see it, after the last few issues of Frontline, amping Speedball for 2007 was the equalivent to making a free throw, and Marvel & Jenkins missed it.

[Dread]

This is the most interesting thing they've done with Speedball in years. Although the costume is rather grotesque, and I'm not really feeling it.

By virtue of nothing happening to Speedball before CW for, I dunno, 5 years, then by default this is true. Personally I wish the Squirrel-Girl/Speedball thing could have went somewhere, but aside for myself and Varient probably we're alone here. I just think the execution was poor. He didn't need to become an emo, psychotic, maschocist freak. He just needed to grow the hell up, like Nova did in ANNIHILATION. Marvel fumbled here, IMO.

[deemar325]

This is the most interesting thing they've done with Speedball in years. Although the costume is rather grotesque, and I'm not really feeling it.


Yeah it is, but come on! Penance? They couldn't even come up with a original name let alone a look.

It's a smack in the face of everyone who holds these characters dear. It's like deciding to have DC Captain Marvel decide to try herion and get strung out on the brown stuff and Mary Marvel go lesbian (Mmm..that might not be so..bad)

It's wrong and abuse of a good character.

[deemar325]

By virtue of nothing happening to Speedball before CW for, I dunno, 5 years, then by default this is true. Personally I wish the Squirrel-Girl/Speedball thing could have went somewhere, but aside for myself and Varient probably we're alone here. I just think the execution was poor. He didn't need to become an emo, psychotic, maschocist freak. He just needed to grow the hell up, like Nova did in ANNIHILATION. Marvel fumbled here, IMO.

Right the f--k on!! Nova is a prime example of how to amp a character up and bring him into his own without totally screwing up the character.

I mean Nova could easily be an Avenger right now with what they are doing with him in Annihilation.

[Dread]

Paul O'Brien comments on this issue in his latest edition of THE X-AXIS website:

http://www.thexaxis.com/misc/frontline10.htm

And now, by way of contrast, we turn to Civil War: Front Line #10. This is the issue where Marvel unveil Penance - their repackaged version of Speedball.

The Speedball fans are, as a whole, up in arms about this one. Personally, I've never especially cared one way or the other about the character, although I can see there's a niche for him as a rare happy-go-lucky hero in the Marvel Universe. Admittedly, it's never led him to any particular success, but at least it was something to mark him out.

Marvel, however, see it another way. They want to spark interest in the character by making him into a dark, angst-ridden hero on loan from the mid-nineties. The concept, believe it or not, is that after the Stamford disaster in Civil War #1, Speedball is now overcome with angst and remorse about all those dead people. He also finds that his powers are now driven by pain. So he has a special suit made for him with lots of spikes on the inside, digging into his body in order to provide him with a permanent source of pain. And just in case anyone hadn't got the point yet, he renames himself Penance.

Where do I start? I'm certainly not outraged by the story in the way that some of Speedball's hardcore fans are. I just think it's the stupidest thing I've read in ages. I was in fits of laughter reading this thing. It's terrible.

Let's spell out the ways in which this really doesn't work.

One: it doesn't make sense in the context of the story. Speedball has spent the last nine issues sulking, protesting his innocence, and showing no obvious signs of wanting to flagellate himself. Suddenly, and completely out of nowhere, he's become a masochist driven by overwhelming guilt. It's not set up properly by the preceding issues.

Two: it's an inherently stupid idea. Of course, the idea of physical pain as a metaphor for emotional pain has been around for centuries, and in itself, it's unobjectionable. But here, they're spelling it out for the slow members of the class in such a way as to strip it of any vestige of subtlety or intelligence. This is a concept that would embarrass a fourteen-year-old poet.

A character like this might work in a few contexts. I can see it working in X-Statix, for example, because Peter Milligan would do it with a nod and a wink, and say "Yes, I know it's ridiculous, but run with me because it's a metaphor." Crucially, though, the character would end up being played for laughs and acknowledged as inherently ridiculous. Warren Ellis might, conceivably, make him work in Thunderbolts if he takes the same approach - laugh at him. But I can't begin to imagine a story in which a character so absurd could successfully be played straight. It certainly isn't this story, which seems be utterly oblivious to the silliness of the whole thing, and plays it in a terribly sincere, heartfelt fashion.

Three: even if it was a good idea, it would be a bad idea for Speedball. Far from being a logical outgrowth of the character, this is an outright negation of everything that people ever liked about him. It's virtually guaranteed to alienate his existing fans, and if you're not going to attract them, what's the point of doing the story with Speedball? Just create a new character.

Marvel produce a fair number of bad or shoddy comics, but it's been a while since we've had something quite so jawdroppingly stupid. This is a concept that goes straight into that elite category where it's hard to imagine what possessed somebody to commission it in the first place. Aside from a demented belief in the importance of being different for its own sake, what could possibly make somebody think this was a good idea?

I'm clearly meant to find Penance a tragic and compelling superhero drama. The reality is that I haven't laughed so much in months. It's Dark Speedball, for crying out loud. It's the sort of thing people would suggest as a joke if they were asked to parody the worst of the mid-nineties.

This is the most misguided thing I've read since Chuck Austen was booted out of the industry. They've turned Speedball into Emo Boy. How divorced from reality do you have to be, before that starts to sound like a remotely good idea?

(There's a lead story in this issue as well, but it's just a delayed build-up to the finale because they're killing time as a result of the delays to the main Civil War series. Suffice to say it's not good enough to counteract the silliness that follows.)

Rating: D

I agree 100%, and I feel I am not alone. Hence why I reposted it.

[ShadowBoxing]

Yeah it is, but come on! Penance? They couldn't even come up with a original name let alone a look.

It's a smack in the face of everyone who holds these characters dear.
It's f***ing Speedball. He is like the Wheelie of the Marvel Universe without the horrifying rhyming gimmick. I mean he's stupid, and a loser of a character. He's probably far better off as a villain anyways, at least it gives him something to ahhhh..........what's the word..........do, yeah do.

Holds these characters dear, I'm sorry I missed all the whining when New Warriors was cancelled...the clamoring fans who were beating down the Marvel offices to bring back NW, or the clamoring fans who made the book popular when they brought it back. Oh wait, that did not happen.

I can see complaining about MJ, or Aunt May or even Eddie Brock (despite the fact that yes, Venom is overrated)...but Speedball?!???. If anything you guys should be crying over Night Thrasher, Firestar or Namorita...there are characters whose potential was thrown out the door.

Yeah Penance is a bad name choice, or at least his look and name fits a lackey of Apocalypse a lot better....but outside of that, I don't dislike the move.

[Dread]

It's f***ing Speedball. He is like the Wheelie of the Marvel Universe without the horrifying rhyming gimmick. I mean he's stupid, and a loser of a character. He's probably far better off as a villain anyways, at least it gives him something to ahhhh..........what's the word..........do, yeah do.

Holds these characters dear, I'm sorry I missed all the whining when New Warriors was cancelled...the clamoring fans who were beating down the Marvel offices to bring back NW, or the clamoring fans who made the book popular when they brought it back. Oh wait, that did not happen.

I can see complaining about MJ, or Aunt May or even Eddie Brock (despite the fact that yes, Venom is overrated)...but Speedball?!???. If anything you guys should be crying over Night Thrasher, or Namorita...there are characters whose potential was thrown out the door.

We can't complain about characters when they are taken from the stage for lengths of time.

I know plenty who whined about the last NW series because it was garbage, and that could be why it failed to sell in big numbers.

And I also saw a lot of complainst about Namorita and Night-Thrasher. Just they weren't drug through a year of story and teased with development, so there is less of it.

It's like mourners would complain more if I drug their dead relative through the street and shat on his face vs. just burrying him normally.

[deemar325]

Dread that is like the best review ever it's spot on!

This is coming from a guy who doesn't even care for Speedball and even he sees how stupid it is.

Oh and Paul Jenkins is dead to me, I'm starting to see what a hack that guy is. From the back up prose in Frontline comparing events in CW to the Holocaust and his disjointed hero Sentry to his bore fest run on Spider-man this guy is Chuck Austen jr.

[Darthphere]

It's like mourners would complain more if I drug their dead relative through the street and shat on his face vs. just burrying him normally.

You're better than this Dread, you need to make such an idiotic argument to make your point.

[Darthphere]

Dread that is like the best review ever it's spot on!

This is coming from a guy who doesn't even care for Speedball and even he sees how stupid it is.

Oh and Paul Jenkins is dead to me, I'm starting to see what a hack that guy is. From the back up prose in Frontline comparing events in CW to the Holocaust and his disjointed hero Sentry to his bore fest run on Spider-man this guy is Chuck Austen jr.

Stupidest **** ive read so far.

1)Penance wasn't his idea.

2) Not his fault Sentry is being used horribly.

3) Yeah, his Spider-Man was bad.

[Dread]

You're better than this Dread, you need to make such an idiotic argument to make your point.

I felt inspired.

Besides, Shadowboxing and I have had some crude debates before. ;)