The man who laughs: The Joker thread

[Bandyt]

She's an average person. Average people see these movies.

[dark_b]

She's an average person. Average people see these movies.i know what you mean.

but isnt a 70yr old woman also an average person?

[ghost_x]

If a 70 year old woman was into Psychological Action Thrillers than I'm sure she would go to

[regwec]

has anybody thought that the joker/marketing might have released a fake pic of himself to play a trick on the fans and start this controversy...and perhaps in December we get a whole different image of joker that starts a whole different controversy?

I don't think that it is entirely unlikely. The Joke is very different from the spypic of Ledger in makeup- The Joke has black rather than green hair, for instance. I no longer cling to the hope that The Joke is fake, but I am not absolutely resigned to it being all that it seems.

[regwec]

I just showed the Picture of The Joker to my mum, who's a very Every-person typical type of person, Just one of those average people who went and saw Batman Begins without being a fan, just because it was an interesting looking movie, and she was utterly creeped out by it. She thought it was grotesque and horrible and it made her shudder. Nolan did it right.

Yeah? Well my pet ferret hated it.

[ghost_x]

What do you mean the Joker has black hair? We can't see his hair

[Ned Ryerson]

I just showed the Picture of The Joker to my mum, who's a very Every-person typical type of person, Just one of those average people who went and saw Batman Begins without being a fan, just because it was an interesting looking movie, and she was utterly creeped out by it. She thought it was grotesque and horrible and it made her shudder. Nolan did it right.

You didn't have your pants on again, did you? No wonder she was scared.

[Bandyt]

My mum's only in her 40s...I'm sure a few people on this site aren't just teenagers too....

[Batty Belfry]

My mum's only in her 40s...I'm sure a few people on this site aren't just teenagers too....

Definitely not.

[ghost_x]

I'm just phasing out of my teenage label

[Bandyt]

I just think the main reaction to the Joker will be "coool" or "eeew" or "ew, cool." Just the majority of those who are seeing the movie that aren't hardcore fans of the comic.

[regwec]

What do you mean the Joker has black hair? We can't see his hair

You can, and it either black, or has been deliberately blacked out. I discussed this at length in the haters/fanboys/whatever thread, as I knew it would only provoke vitriol anywhere else.

[Ned Ryerson]

One can't really tell the colour of his hair in the official pic. Ledger does have green hair in that spy pic of his hanging out in front of the trailer.

[Bandyt]

Miranda says he has green hair, isn't that enough for you people? I mean...Miranda.

[regwec]

Yeah, I don't dispute that he has green hair during at least some of the film. Ledger has black hair in the photo, however.

This is partly what leaves a fibre of suspicion in my mind. The marketing may be even more clever than we think.

[Ned Ryerson]

Are you sure it's black in that photo? Because I can't really tell; it's in the shadows.

[itsthebatman]

Yeah, I don't dispute that he has green hair during at least some of the film. Ledger has black hair in the photo, however.

This is partly what leaves a fibre of suspicion in my mind. The marketing may be even more clever than we think.
The cleverness is hurting my brain. But it's very well executed so far.

[dark_b]

Yeah, I don't dispute that he has green hair during at least some of the film. Ledger has black hair in the photo, however.

This is partly what leaves a fibre of suspicion in my mind. The marketing may be even more clever than we think.
show me teh pics whre you see black hair.
show me and i will admit that i was wrong.

[ghost_x]

Theres no trace of any hair in the official picture, it's just a clevely lit picture revealing only traces of the characters visuals. They won't be officially revealing the green hair until the next photo

[Kleric]

To me it looks like for that picture they are going for a clown like skull.

A clown of death.

The red slash like a jagged row of bloody teeth, the sunken eyes like sockets the hair intentionally hidden even rounded off to aid in the affect…

You get the idea. Damn I need more information, Pics anything.

[regwec]

ghost, the picture is brightly lit from the top. The visible hair (eyebrows, temples) appears black either because it is black, or because it has been blacked out. If there were any green there, we would all be able to see it.

Again, I am not arguing that The Joker will have black hair in the final movie, but I am sure that this photo does, or seems to.

[TheBatman072]

Theres no trace of any hair in the official picture, it's just a clevely lit picture revealing only traces of the characters visuals. They won't be officially revealing the green hair until the next photo


Yeah.

You can see a LITTLE bit of hair on Heath's left side in the picture, and it's definately NOT black.


But we'll just have to wait until a better photo/teaser.

[ghost_x]

I can see what your saying, but its more a case that it's blacked out rather than actually having black hair. That or its a really dull colour of green which wouldn't show up clear in this sort of lighting. It's safe to say though the hair is blacked out.

[ghost_x]

To me it looks like for that picture they are going for a clown like skull.

A clown of death.

The red slash like a jagged row of bloody teeth, the sunken eyes like sockets the hair intentionally hidden even rounded off to aid in the affect…

You get the idea. Damn I need more information, Pics anything.

I thought the exact same thing when I first saw it. The faded white skin and the sunken eyes really give it that skull like resemblance, he essentially looks like a corpse.

[regwec]

Hmm. I must confess that likening it to a corpse depresses me a little bit more. Ah well.

[ghost_x]

Reg, you may as well just slit your wrists now

[regwec]

Thank you, that is lovely thing to say.

[ghost_x]

English humour doesn't translate well with Americans

[breyfogle_rules]

http://www.edicustoms.com.au/images/benny-hill.jpg

[ghost_x]

Everybody loves benny hill

[Bandyt]

Yeah...that "Blackhair" is just blacked out. I saturated 100% the colours of the pics and you can tell it's just been manipped so it's in the shadows, if you look closely to his right, our left, on his forhead the hair looks a bit greenish.

http://img76.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jokersaturateddz0.jpg

[ghost_x]

I havn't actually tried that yet, messing about with the colours on PS

[Bandyt]

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/8097/jokersaturatedbh8.jpg

Last pic didn't work, I think will work.

[ghost_x]

I can see a few very fine traces of hair on the far right of his head, it's definietly not black, whether or not it's green is hard to distinguish as well

[Bandyt]

It looks like he has some red around his eyes, too.

[ghost_x]

Yep

[Ned Ryerson]

It looks like he has some red around his eyes, too.

And some pink on his cheeks, and indigo mascara. I am either colour blind, or you nerds are like Steve Austin with the bionic eye.

[ghost_x]

If you hold up a UV light you can actually see jizz stains round his mouth

[Ned Ryerson]

So he does like The Cure, after all.

[Batman FREAK]

The Cure rules... :oldrazz:

[Ned Ryerson]

The Joker's make-up betrays an affinity as well...

[itsthebatman]

http://www.edicustoms.com.au/images/benny-hill.jpg
Couldn't have picked a worse example of British humour. What about Blackadder? Regwec knows what I'm saying.

[Ned Ryerson]

Not the first series, which is "teh suck."

[ghost_x]

Not a fan of Monty Python?

[itsthebatman]

Not a fan of Monty Python?
Not really. Kinda dated. You want to see Irish comedy? Father Ted.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/60000/images/_61186_ted.jpg
Fecking genius.

[ghost_x]

Monty Python dated, ouch

I can't say I've ever been a big fan of Ted.

[Nepenthes]

http://perso.orange.fr/religionnaire/artistes/cure/art/seventeen%20seconds.jpg

fck yeah

[deathfromabove]

ghost, the picture is brightly lit from the top. The visible hair (eyebrows, temples) appears black either because it is black, or because it has been blacked out. If there were any green there, we would all be able to see it.

Again, I am not arguing that The Joker will have black hair in the final movie, but I am sure that this photo does, or seems to.


i see no hair outside of his brows and more importantly i dont see any color outside of the red lips. it looks like a high contrast black and white photo with red lips to me.

[ghost_x]

Moving swiftly back on to the Joker, and the film, where do you think the final fight will be between Joker and Batman?

[Darknightnomis]

Moving swiftly back on to the Joker, and the film, where do you think the final fight will be between Joker and Batman?

Hopefully over the rooftops of Gotham ala BLADERUNNER in the rainstorm with thunder and lightning in the backgorund. With the Joker using everything around in his disposal to get some shots in on Batman.

On of the small disapointments I had about Tim Burton's BAtman was the "fight between Batman and Joker was to one side.

[JStorm]

Moving swiftly back on to the Joker, and the film, where do you think the final fight will be between Joker and Batman?

Different.. I hope.

I don't want a kung fu Batman fighting a whack job Joker.

I dunno.. mind games, psychotic episodes, etc.

TKJ comes to mind. Batman having to fight crazed midgets in a jungle of a circus, then the last scene is a quick fight.

[ghost_x]

I was hoping that Batman would have to go through a circus obstacle course, before he gets to the Joker, with a Hall of Mirrors and ****. I certainly don't want to be seeing any midgets though.

I also, had always hoped that the Joker would break his own neck to avoid going back to arkham

[Batman FREAK]

^ Thus causing Batman to have to save the Joker from almost killing himself somehow? I like the idea of Batman having to save him for some reason...to really drive home the point that Batman does NOT kill, or just allow it to happen.

[Cobblepot]

Batman FREAK who drew that avatar?

[Batman FREAK]

Not sure...I've had it for a really long time though.

[breyfogle_rules]

I recall a leak stating that Jokers hideout was in an abandoned candy factory.
There were also reports that alot of the sets from Burtons willy wonka were being transported to the UK set. If you go back to some of the photos of the hangar you can even see some of the wonka trucks parked out front.

This could be a potentially exciting set for a conclusion. Or at least a big fiasco.

[Batman FREAK]

^ Big fiascos are good.

[ghost_x]

A candy factory, hmm I would of preferred a fun house, but a candy factory could work.

[JStorm]

Nah. It would be great to see Ledger have Oldman by the balls. Great acting would come of it.

Also, I really, really want to see Batman, a movie Batman, care for Gordon as comicbook Batman does.

Fat Gordon was a joke, and Nolan set up a great relationship with Gordon and Bruce/Batman in the scene after the Wayne murder.

The only scene I can think of, in the older films, where Batman cared about Gordon's life was in ACME Chemicals: "Let him go; or I'll do Gordon."

All Batman did was let him go. I know, that is what was asked of him. But to see Joker have Gordon's life in his own hands, and to have Batman get really pissed, that fight scene would be classic. :up:

[breyfogle_rules]

Oh yeah. He did set up a kind of fatherly thing there, didnt he?
In fact, Alfred and Lucius also have this surrogate thing going.
Interesting.
Damn I love Batman. I wann a be him!
Yay!

[itsthebatman]

Different.. I hope.

I don't want a kung fu Batman fighting a whack job Joker.

I dunno.. mind games, psychotic episodes, etc.

TKJ comes to mind. Batman having to fight crazed midgets in a jungle of a circus, then the last scene is a quick fight.
Settle their differences via a game of chess.
http://www.sfinternational.se/Upload/ED9C4F3F-DF3A-4D6E-823B-90D9FB6C9F03/The_seventh_Seal.jpg
Would fit very well in the Nolanverse.

I was going to say on top of a train a la 'Mad Love', then remembered Spidey 2 and BB. So, no trains.
Rooftop would be good. How about like the end of The Sign of The Joker, in the driving rain, swinging on girders? That would be nice.

[breyfogle_rules]

Not sure...I've had it for a really long time though.

That would most likely be the handywork of my namesake... the unparalleled Norm Breyfogle.

[ghost_x]

Alfred is the wise grandpa who gives the philisophical advice, Lucius is the cool uncle who gives him all the great toys and Gordon is the father who protects him

[breyfogle_rules]

^^Interesting. Grandpa, Daddy and Uncle.

[JStorm]

Settle their differences via a game of chess.
http://www.sfinternational.se/Upload/ED9C4F3F-DF3A-4D6E-823B-90D9FB6C9F03/The_seventh_Seal.jpg
Would fit very well in the Nolanverse.

I was going to say on top of a train a la 'Mad Love', then remembered Spidey 2 and BB. So, no trains.
Rooftop would be good. How about like the end of The Sign of The Joker, in the driving rain, swinging on girders? That would be nice.

That would be different. Again, TKJ is a great idea. The only fault I can see with that ending for TDK is that there is back story with that ending and joke.

Some said the end scene in '89 was one sided, and I agree. Even though Batman and Joker have fist fought plenty of times in the comics, I don't want to see that in TDK.

If Joker broke Batman's balls to the point of insanity in TDK, I would be happy for a great chase scene, and then Joker giving up and saying, "I can't play anymore; the street lights are on. He!"

[ghost_x]

it's an appropiate analogy isn't it.

[breyfogle_rules]

My personal preference for a showdown with J would actually be something more pedestrian. Broad daylight on a plain street corner...in and out of shop windows. Scorcese style...maybe a touch of Steven Seagal.

[Dark52Knight]

Joker and Batman battle it out inside the candy factory or on the rooftops of Gotham

[ghost_x]

At some point I would really like a chase, but Joker would be getting off on the adrenaline and screaming and laughing as Batman is intensely trying to keep up, I can imagine that the police have been no match for the Joker so for him to finally meet an equal opponent must be near orgasmic for Mister J.

[regwec]

The climax definately needs to be on the rooftops, with an armed Joker fleeing whilst opening fire on civilians (as seen in The Dark Knight Returns, and elsewhere). The line from Hush, "once again, it all boils down to a man with a gun" (or similar) is one of my favorites, and I would love to hear Bale use it once he has Heath beaten into the ground.

[JStorm]

The climax definately needs to be on the rooftops, with an armed Joker fleeing whilst opening fire on civilians (as seen in The Dark Knight Returns, and elsewhere). The line from Hush, "once again, it all boils down to a man with a gun" (or similar) is one of my favorites, and I would love to hear Bale use it once he has Heath beaten into the ground.

That goes with what I have been saying. Forcing Bale as an actor to do more than just "pow, bam, boom," is a great idea.

Like the Gordon/Fox/Alfred twist thingy, having Batman to face a madman with a gun would force him to the edge.

Nice idea, Reg! :up:

[TheBatman072]

For me, the ending would be this:

Joker's kidnapped Rachel. Leaving a note in her apartment, telling Batman exactly where they are. Almost DARING Batman to come and save her. Bruce visits Rachel at her apartment, finding the door open slightly. He bursts in and finds the apartment a complete mess. Like there had been a fight. He finds the note on the ground and reads it, crushing it in his hand as he finishes it. Cut to Batman racing along in the new Batmobile/Cycle toward where the Joker has Rachel, in an abandoned amusement park. When he's less then halfway there, he calls Gordon and tells him everything. Then he hangs up, mumbling to himself about "...if Joker hurts her, if he hurts her I'll..." and so on. He roars into the park and jumps out/off his vehicle. Then, Joker's voice echoes over loudspeaker, greeting Batman and welcoming him to Joker's home. A bunch of overhead lights flicker and light up, one by one, signaling Batman where to go. He has no choice but to follow them, so he does. Right into the huge Hall of Mirrors. Batman walks in and the doors shut immediately behind him(Joker's at the control center for the entire park). The lights in the whole place light up, and Joker challenges Batman to get through his Hall if he wants to see the ADA alive. Batman starts to walk, carefully, through the "funhouse." All the while Joker is ranting and trying to distract Batman. Suddenly, the floor drops out, and reveals a small basement, full of rusted, sharpened metal rods. Batman catches himself just in time, pulling himself back up, and continuing his walk through Joker's twisted "mind." A few more traps here, false turns there, and Batman makes it through to the end. Just a little beat up and tired. He comes out into a huge, cavernous room, with a large tank. Full of acid or chemicals or maybe even a shark or two Joker stole from the Aquarium. With Rachel, tied up and gagged in a chair, hanging over the tank. And then there's Joker, in the control room on the far side of the cavern, still ranting to Batman, but fully aware that he's in the room. Joker warns Batman that for each step Batman takes toward him or Rachel, he'll drop Rachel closer and closer to the tank. Or he'll just skip the middle man and dunk her right now, whatever he feels like. Batman asks Rachel if she's okay and she nods, shaken and scared. Joker snaps at Batman, yelling that Joker was talking and Batman shouldn't have interrupted, so Joker drops Rachel a little closer to the tank. Batman screams no, and Joker stops. Telling Batman not to interrupt again. Batman stands there while Joker continues ranting, assesing the situation. Trying to figure a way out of all of this without hurting Rachel.

That's all I've got right now, I'll post again when I figure the rest out.

[ghost_x]

I'd hope if Joker were to kidnap Rachel that when Batman gets there he sees her tied to a chair with her back to him, he turns the chair around and she is already dead with her face sliced creating a smile from cheek to cheek.

[regwec]

I wouldn't like that, if only because I prefer Batman-the-hero-against-the-odds rather than Batman-the-angsty-failure.

[JStorm]

I'd hope if Joker were to kidnap Rachel that when Batman gets there he sees her tied to a chair with her back to him, he turns the chair around and she is already dead with her face sliced creating a smile from cheek to cheek.

That wouldn't fit into Nolan's-Batman world.

[ghost_x]

Bruce already feels the failure for believing that it was his fault his parents were murdered, thats why he dons the cape, what if his alter ego felt the failure as well, where does that leave Bruce/Batman psychologically.

[breyfogle_rules]

For me, the ending would be this:

Joker's kidnapped Rachel. Leaving a note in her apartment, telling Batman exactly where they are. Almost DARING Batman to come and save her. Bruce visits Rachel at her apartment, finding the door open slightly. He bursts in and finds the apartment a complete mess. Like there had been a fight. He finds the note on the ground and reads it, crushing it in his hand as he finishes it. Cut to Batman racing along in the new Batmobile/Cycle toward where the Joker has Rachel, in an abandoned amusement park. When he's less then halfway there, he calls Gordon and tells him everything. Then he hangs up, mumbling to himself about "...if Joker hurts her, if he hurts her I'll..." and so on. He roars into the park and jumps out/off his vehicle. Then, Joker's voice echoes over loudspeaker, greeting Batman and welcoming him to Joker's home. A bunch of overhead lights flicker and light up, one by one, signaling Batman where to go. He has no choice but to follow them, so he does. Right into the huge Hall of Mirrors. Batman walks in and the doors shut immediately behind him(Joker's at the control center for the entire park). The lights in the whole place light up, and Joker challenges Batman to get through his Hall if he wants to see the ADA alive. Batman starts to walk, carefully, through the "funhouse." All the while Joker is ranting and trying to distract Batman. Suddenly, the floor drops out, and reveals a small basement, full of rusted, sharpened metal rods. Batman catches himself just in time, pulling himself back up, and continuing his walk through Joker's twisted "mind." A few more traps here, false turns there, and Batman makes it through to the end. Just a little beat up and tired. He comes out into a huge, cavernous room, with a large tank. Full of acid or chemicals or maybe even a shark or two Joker stole from the Aquarium. With Rachel, tied up and gagged in a chair, hanging over the tank. And then there's Joker, in the control room on the far side of the cavern, still ranting to Batman, but fully aware that he's in the room. Joker warns Batman that for each step Batman takes toward him or Rachel, he'll drop Rachel closer and closer to the tank. Or he'll just skip the middle man and dunk her right now, whatever he feels like. Batman asks Rachel if she's okay and she nods, shaken and scared. Joker snaps at Batman, yelling that Joker was talking and Batman shouldn't have interrupted, so Joker drops Rachel a little closer to the tank. Batman screams no, and Joker stops. Telling Batman not to interrupt again. Batman stands there while Joker continues ranting, assesing the situation. Trying to figure a way out of all of this without hurting Rachel.

That's all I've got right now, I'll post again when I figure the rest out.

You're adorable! It is clear that you are spritely enough to still be in love with life and enthusiastic about things that others may be jaded about. Sadly, there's a LOT of jade out there. My take? Well, as firey and fun as it all is, it is also very, very cliche'. All of it. However, the parts I have in bold are particularly cliche to the point of me just loving it.
Your paragraph is a bit like a pegasus drawn on loose-leaf notebook paper in blue ink. Earnest, ticklish and showing the promise of a lovely person.
But not necessarily bulletproof.
Still, very entertaining. :up:

[breyfogle_rules]

As far as the Bergman style "chess-match-of-the-mind", thats more Sandman territory I think. But screw it, you're right. It does need to get cerebral. The conflict with Joker is almost exclusively non-brawn.

[regwec]

Bruce already feels the failure for believing that it was his fault his parents were murdered, thats why he dons the cape, what if his alter ego felt the failure as well, where does that leave Bruce/Batman psychologically.

Well, Bruce's mind seems to drift between two spheres: introspection and resolution. I just enjoy him more when he operates in the latter.

[Mike_D202]

That wouldn't fit into Nolan's-Batman world.

Uh, yea it does.

[JStorm]

Uh, yea it does.

Sarcasm is so misunderstood when not in spoken word. :(

[ghost_x]

Well, Bruce's mind seems to drift between two spheres: introspection and resolution. I just enjoy him more when he operates in the latter.

Absoloutly, Gordon informs Batman that Gotham is experiencing a state of escalation, so what does Batman do, he ignores the warning and takes on the next case, his sense of justice is simply about resoloution. Yet, Batman has yet to of met an opponent of the same intellect and mindset of the Joker. Surely defending a city of petty thugs can't prepare him for the might of the Joker, which is why his intial encounters will place Batman into a state of turmoil. Resoloution won't be much of an option for Bruce in these scenarios, he's going to need to be on his toes from the get go, the sporadic nature of the Joker will have Bruce attempting to find new ways of strategizing his plan of attack, so introspective thought is going to be his only attempt to defeat the criminal.

[TheBatman072]

I'd hope if Joker were to kidnap Rachel that when Batman gets there he sees her tied to a chair with her back to him, he turns the chair around and she is already dead with her face sliced creating a smile from cheek to cheek.


That's too quick. It's a good idea, but it's too...unsatisfactory.


The very ending of what I posted would be:

Batman has Rachel, safe, on the ground and is untying her from the chair. Meanwhile, Joker is trying to make his escape. Batman asks Rachel if she's okay and that when he gets his hands on Joker, Rachel stops him and kisses him quickly. Joker turns around from escaping through a door or whatever, and sees them kissing. He pulls a gun out of his pocket and aims it, Rachel pulls away from Batman and turns around. Joker fires the gun and the bullet rips through Rachel's stomach, knocking her to the ground. All the while Joker is laughing, and then escaping. Batman cries out her name in shock and drops to his knees, cradling her in his arms and telling her that she'll be okay, keeping pressure on the wound. Rachel whispers something and Batman leans over to hear, but it's too late. She dies in his arms. Batman starts sobbing and yelling, holding her close. Then, Joker's laughter echoes back from where he is, and Batman lays Rachel down gently, stands up and starts to run after Joker. Disappearing into the dark. Joker's running and laughing himself silly, screaming and carrying on. All the while Batman is following him, listening to his laughter and flashing back to when his parents died, then to when Rachel died. Getting angrier and angrier. Batman finally catches up to the Joker, Batman still in the shadows. He jumps up, his cape outstretched, and slams the Joker into the ground, jumping over him and landing on the ground. Joker still laughing, he pulls out his gun and aims it at Batman, Batman knocks it out of Joker's hand hard. At the same time hitting Joker in the face, maybe knocking out a tooth. Batman starts to pound into Joker, knocking him all over and around the area they're in. The Joker pulls out a switchblade and shoves it into Batman stomach, only to realize that it didn't cut anything. Batman knocks the blade away and slams Joker face into the wall, then swinging him around into another wall. Batman throws him to the ground and starts to strangle him, Joker still laughing and coughing up blood. Just then, a bullet hits the wall infront of Batman. Gordon's voice yelling at Batman to stop and put Joker down. Batman growls out "He killed Rachel...he killed Rachel..." Gordon says, "And he'll be brought to justice. But we can't sink down to his level. You kill him, and you'll be doing exactly what he wants you to. We have to show him our way works." Batman continues to strangle Joker, still mumbling a little. Gordon fires one more shot, a little closer to Batman's head. "I'm warning you. I WILL put you down if I have to. I know you're hurting, and believe me, I want to put one in his head too. But then, what makes us any different from him if we allow ourselves to do that?" Batman grits his teeth, then lets Joker fall to the ground. Coughing and wheezing, curling up into a ball. Giggling to himself. It starts to rain, and Batman and Gordon stand there over the Joker.

[TheBatman072]

You're adorable! It is clear that you are spritely enough to still be in love with life and enthusiastic about things that others may be jaded about. Sadly, there's a LOT of jade out there. My take? Well, as firey and fun as it all is, it is also very, very cliche'. All of it. However, the parts I have in bold are particularly cliche to the point of me just loving it.
Your paragraph is a bit like a pegasus drawn on loose-leaf notebook paper in blue ink. Earnest, ticklish and showing the promise of a lovely person.
But not necessarily bulletproof.
Still, very entertaining. :up:


Never said I was Hemingway, and this is "making-it-up-on-the-spot" so I haven't had any time to proof read or re-write. Just getting my ideas out there.

[Bandyt]

Hmm, I'm thinking Joker might shoot Rachael through the spine and then rape her. You know, TKJ Barbara style... I'm seeing Batman in Gordon's place going through the love tunnel with all the projected images of her body and...yeah. We all know Maggie Gyllenhaal has no problem taking her kit off.

[breyfogle_rules]

That's too quick. It's a good idea, but it's too...unsatisfactory.


The very ending of what I posted would be:

Batman has Rachel, safe, on the ground and is untying her from the chair. Meanwhile, Joker is trying to make his escape. Batman asks Rachel if she's okay and that when he gets his hands on Joker, Rachel stops him and kisses him quickly. Joker turns around from escaping through a door or whatever, and sees them kissing. He pulls a gun out of his pocket and aims it, Rachel pulls away from Batman and turns around. Joker fires the gun and the bullet rips through Rachel's stomach, knocking her to the ground. All the while Joker is laughing, and then escaping. Batman cries out her name in shock and drops to his knees, cradling her in his arms and telling her that she'll be okay, keeping pressure on the wound. Rachel whispers something and Batman leans over to hear, but it's too late. She dies in his arms. Batman starts sobbing and yelling, holding her close. Then, Joker's laughter echoes back from where he is, and Batman lays Rachel down gently, stands up and starts to run after Joker. Disappearing into the dark. Joker's running and laughing himself silly, screaming and carrying on. All the while Batman is following him, listening to his laughter and flashing back to when his parents died, then to when Rachel died. Getting angrier and angrier. Batman finally catches up to the Joker, Batman still in the shadows. He jumps up, his cape outstretched, and slams the Joker into the ground, jumping over him and landing on the ground. Joker still laughing, he pulls out his gun and aims it at Batman, Batman knocks it out of Joker's hand hard. At the same time hitting Joker in the face, maybe knocking out a tooth. Batman starts to pound into Joker, knocking him all over and around the area they're in. The Joker pulls out a switchblade and shoves it into Batman stomach, only to realize that it didn't cut anything. Batman knocks the blade away and slams Joker face into the wall, then swinging him around into another wall. Batman throws him to the ground and starts to strangle him, Joker still laughing and coughing up blood. Just then, a bullet hits the wall infront of Batman. Gordon's voice yelling at Batman to stop and put Joker down. Batman growls out "He killed Rachel...he killed Rachel..." Gordon says, "And he'll be brought to justice. But we can't sink down to his level. You kill him, and you'll be doing exactly what he wants you to. We have to show him our way works." Batman continues to strangle Joker, still mumbling a little. Gordon fires one more shot, a little closer to Batman's head. "I'm warning you. I WILL put you down if I have to. I know you're hurting, and believe me, I want to put one in his head too. But then, what makes us any different from him if we allow ourselves to do that?" Batman grits his teeth, then lets Joker fall to the ground. Coughing and wheezing, curling up into a ball. Giggling to himself. It starts to rain, and Batman and Gordon stand there over the Joker.

Love it!

But, I have to say...this would probably work best as either a sock puppet show or a Miami Vice episode. :oldrazz:

[regwec]

Hmm, I'm thinking Joker might shoot Rachael through the spine and then rape her. You know, TKJ Barbara style... I'm seeing Batman in Gordon's place going through the love tunnel with all the projected images of her body and...yeah. We all know Maggie Gyllenhaal has no problem taking her kit off.

Is this really what we've come to? Do you earnestly believe this to be a suitable or likely idea?

[Bandyt]

Regwec, you always shoot people down, you're always a negative a$$hole. It's just fun speculation. Lighten up.

[JStorm]

I thought the Joker just took pictures of Barbara? :confused:

Also, even though BB was gritty, and TDK will be darker, I think, I do not think a rape scene would be appropriate either.

[breyfogle_rules]

Hmm, I'm thinking Joker might shoot Rachael through the spine and then rape her. You know, TKJ Barbara style... I'm seeing Batman in Gordon's place going through the love tunnel with all the projected images of her body and...yeah. We all know Maggie Gyllenhaal has no problem taking her kit off.

Now this I really can't see done in sock puppets.

[JStorm]

Regwec, you always shoot people down, you're always a negative a$$hole. It's just fun speculation. Lighten up.

You gave one opinion; he gave another. :confused:

[TheBatman072]

I thought the Joker just took pictures of Barbara? :confused:

Also, even though BB was gritty, and TDK will be darker, I think, I do not think a rape scene would be appropriate either.


He did. Joker didn't rape Barbara.

[Bandyt]

I dunno, a few sources have said that he goes for the ones closest to Batman, so it seems he might find out who he is? I just think the Joker will find a way to serious ***** with/up Batman/Bruce.

[breyfogle_rules]

Regwec, you always shoot people down, you're always a negative a$$hole. It's just fun speculation. Lighten up.

If you are interested enough to type out such an outburst, you should have the energy to take a closer look at the very valuable vibration that is Regwec.
His opinions are not mean-spirited, very informed and almost always from a unique perspective.
Please reconsider what you have interpreted as a slight.
A good start would be to read Regwecs EXCELLENT op-ed on the nature of love and friendship under the Batman moon tonight.

read this!

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=273703

[Antonello Blueberry]

He did. Joker didn't rape Barbara.
Were you there?

[regwec]

*takes out onion*

*sniff*

[Bandyt]

I assumed he did. Why take her clothes off for the camera's...Ah, It was just left to speculation. Never said he didn't, never said he did. Stop Rape, say Yes.

[JStorm]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/JStorm18/blurb200.jpg

[Bandyt]

Sorry, Regwec. I read it as a kind of spiteful criticism, because I'm kind of new here. Bit defensive, you know? It's just...try and show love and peace, yeah?

[TheBatman072]

Were you there?


Were you?


If he raped her, wouldn't he show HIMSELF in the pictures? He just showed her, naked. To humiliate her and drive Gordon crazy.

[regwec]

Bless you, Bandyt, my child.

[Bandyt]

I don't know why the word "fanboy" is so taboo though. I consider myself a "fanboy", I'm a crazy batman-obsessed fanatic who absolutely adores almost everything it has...emitted. I chose the word emitted instead of produced for certain reasons. I am a self-confessed, proud fanboy.

[Crook]

I assumed he did. Why take her clothes off for the camera's...Ah, It was just left to speculation. Never said he didn't, never said he did. Stop Rape, say Yes.

Were you?


If he raped her, wouldn't he show HIMSELF in the pictures? He just showed her, naked. To humiliate her and drive Gordon crazy.
It was purposely unclarified. Both from the writer's standpoint and the story's.

Think about it. If you were Gordon, wouldn't it be more tragic and heart-aching if you were shown naked pics of your daughter....but DIDN'T know what happened? There must be billions of thoughts racing through your head, and they're all horrifying.

That's a great joke for Joker.

[TheBatman072]

It was purposely unclarified. Both from the writer's standpoint and the story's.

Think about it. If you were Gordon, wouldn't it be more tragic and heart-aching if you were shown naked pics of your daughter....but DIDN'T know what happened? There must be billions of thoughts racing through your head, and they're all horrifying.

That's a great joke for Joker.


But I would think that something like rape would be below Joker. He's an ARTISTIC psychopath, not some COMMON psychopath.

[regwec]

I don't know why the word "fanboy" is so taboo though. I consider myself a "fanboy", I'm a crazy batman-obsessed fanatic who absolutely adores almost everything it has...emitted. I chose the word emitted instead of produced for certain reasons. I am a self-confessed, proud fanboy.

I think it's a bit like the "N" word. When used in a jocular fashion between persons of the same community, it's fine, but when it is used aggessively or to imply seperateness, it can be quite offensive.

[Bandyt]

It was purposely unclarified. Both from the writer's standpoint and the story's.

Think about it. If you were Gordon, wouldn't it be more tragic and heart-aching if you were shown naked pics of your daughter....but DIDN'T know what happened? There must be billions of thoughts racing through your head, and they're all horrifying.

That's a great joke for Joker.


Yeah, that's exactly how I viewed it. My suggestion with replacing it with Rachael was more, you see the shooting, then you see the naked bloody photos. But I'm sure Nolan has come up with something actually original. Oh, another point I felt like bringing up, did anyone see the Joker's MySpace? They took it down but his Display Picture was interesting. Think he might paint that on some walls?

[Crook]

But I would think that something like rape would be below Joker. He's an ARTISTIC psychopath, not some COMMON psychopath.
Like I said, it doesn't matter if he did or didn't. You can look at it from any way you want.

I'm talking about the story and Gordon. He himself isn't gonna go, "oh, well I've known Joker for a while...this isn't really his type of thing". When he's caught up in that moment, the worst is all he can think of, and rape would be right up there.

[JStorm]

I think it's a bit like the "N" word. When used in a jocular fashion between persons of the same community, it's fine, but when it is used aggessively or to imply seperateness, it can be quite offensive.

I find that amusing considering what Sean Hannity talked about yesterday: pretty much the same thing.

When I hear "fanboy," I think of this place and most of my friends. But I would never use the word "fanboy" in a hateful sense.

It does seem kinda dumb to make fun of a person and then call them a "fanboy," like said person isn't. :rolleyes:



All seriousness aside, this reminds me of the scene in Mallrats where Brodie almost fights Steve-Dave and "Fanboy."

[breyfogle_rules]

I forget who noticed this first, so forgive me....but I'd like to revisit an idea that I have been thinking about a lot.

It was a little too far fetched to me that joker gets hit with a cable and ends up with a perfect smile. Then someone pointed out that his left cheek is all mangled but his right is a PERFECT clown smile.

So basically it is looking like he ostensibly got hit with the cable which ripped open ONE cheek, and he consciously cut the other side to match.
This was probably Nolans solution to the cable idea "not being plausible enough" which he was reportedly stewing over when filming the bank heist.

So now he is mutilated by both Batman AND himself. My emotions, so torn.

Seriously. Look at this picture. His right cheek is done on purpose to match the left. I have no doubt.

http://photos.imageevent.com/batmanonfilm/bofimagesbofimages/heath_joker_ibelieveinharveydenttoo_2.jpg

[Darknightnomis]

It was purposely unclarified. Both from the writer's standpoint and the story's.

Think about it. If you were Gordon, wouldn't it be more tragic and heart-aching if you were shown naked pics of your daughter....but DIDN'T know what happened? There must be billions of thoughts racing through your head, and they're all horrifying.

That's a great joke for Joker.

I remember reading somewhere with an interview with Alan Moore that was reprinted on the web that he was isuggesting the rape of Barbara Gordan by the Joker as well as that of James Gordon by the circus freaks but what Bollan illustrated was all that was allowed by DC.

But I can't honestly remember where I read that. I'm looking for he source right now.

[regwec]

You're right as ever, Breyfogle. I've been avoiding the issue because, after I pointed out the black hair business, I didn't want it said that Regwec doeth protest to much. Suffice to say that I have always loathed the idea of a "self harming" Joker. That theme just belongs to another character altogether. Perhaps we're wrong, and perhaps the scarring just occurs that way, but...

[ghost_x]

Has it been clarified that it is actually the cable that causes the scar?

Also, it's possible that Batman had no involvement in the accident and it was actually Jokers men that cut the zip line.

[The Last Meatbag]

I believe the Joker might end up looking a bit like a design by a member on here named StarvingArtist, at least smile and eye make up wise...

http://www.willdrawforfood.com/TheJoker.jpg

[ghost_x]

I remember when StarvingArtist posted that, it looked great

[The Last Meatbag]

Still does.

[regwec]

Yeah, and a majority disliked it at the time. But now like it.

[Rynan]

Yeah, and a majority disliked it at the time. But now like it.

"Seeds in the wind....."

[The Last Meatbag]

I liked it from the beginning, I just didn't like the 'burns so much.

[ghost_x]

What's to dislike, it maintains every element of the traditional Joker

[IamtheBatman]

I believe the Joker might end up looking a bit like a design by a member on here named StarvingArtist, at least smile and eye make up wise...

http://www.willdrawforfood.com/TheJoker.jpg


One of the best Joker statues I've ever seen literally.

[breyfogle_rules]

A bit "Social Distortion" for me.

[bstringer]

He looks like a Lizard! thats NOT how i want the joker looking.

[The Last Meatbag]

because his tongue's out?

[Rynan]

What's to dislike, it maintains every element of the traditional Joker

Statements like that make me want to slit my throat.

It maintains tradition in the same way my mother maintains plants. She waters them once then forgets about them until they die.

[ghost_x]

Statements like that make me want to slit my throat.

It maintains tradition in the same way my mother maintains plants. She waters them once then forgets about them until they die.

b-tch and moan all you want buddy, whatever brings joy to your existence

[Rynan]

b-tch and moan all you want buddy, whatever brings joy to your existence

Oh baby, you know it's only you who brings me joy, sugarlump.

[ghost_x]

Good to know, soooo Ledger Joker anyone?

[regwec]

Yeah, I was always willing to give him a chance. Pity the makeup girl gave him a huge hurdle to vault. Hope he slapped her bottom.

[ghost_x]

Miranda would of taken the spanking like a real woman

[ToddIsDead]

b-tch and moan all you want buddy, whatever brings joy to your existence

If it's not inline with your opinion, it's not right? Is that how it works.

[The Guard]

Re: The Killing Joke, and whether The Joker raped Barbara Gordon.

I'm of the mind that he did, in a manner of speaking. What The Joker did to Barbara hurt her very badly, and took something precious from her, while The Joker received, one imagines, immense pleasure from the actions he took. There were power relations going on during the whole thing, and he did so without her consent, so he certainly metaphorically "raped" her if nothing else.

[IamtheBatman]

Re: The Killing Joke, and whether The Joker raped Barbara Gordon.

I'm of the mind that he did, in a manner of speaking. What The Joker did to Barbara hurt her very badly, and took something precious from her, while The Joker received, one imagines, immense pleasure from the actions he took. There were power relations going on during the whole thing, and he did so without her consent, so he certainly metaphorically "raped" her if nothing else.

I never thought of that.

[Hartter]

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBatman072 http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11712692#post11712692)
He did. Joker didn't rape Barbara.

Were you there?

I had to slap my own forehead after reading that.

[IamtheBatman]

I had to slap my own forehead after reading that.

I think the whole rapping it on Barbara went to far.

[NoName86]

If it's not inline with your opinion, it's not right? Is that how it works.
Hmm, so he says that and you get up in arms about it, but when L.A. has an opinion differing yours not only do you disagree, but you take stabs at what ethnicity he is, and what he is supposed to act like?

[Bandyt]

Did anyone think that the Heath Joker already has the smile, but Batman somehow ****s it up for him and makes him ANGRY?

[Rynan]

You know what?

I want to see Ledger smile. In make-up. All the images we've been getting he has a big serious face on. I want to see the f***er smile.

[Stanley Ipkiss]

Yah, Rynans right

all the pics have ledger frowning, wheres the smile

[J. J. Jameson]

I believe the Joker might end up looking a bit like a design by a member on here named StarvingArtist, at least smile and eye make up wise...

http://www.willdrawforfood.com/TheJoker.jpg

Cool beyond words. :word:

[FlawlessVictory]

You know what?

I want to see Ledger smile. In make-up. All the images we've been getting he has a big serious face on. I want to see the f***er smile.

Yah, Rynans right

all the pics have ledger frowning, wheres the smile

We have one official pic of Ledger as the Joker, and yes, he is not smiling there. All those other pics are set pics, where he is just walking around, not filming at the time. Do you want him to just walk around the set with a stupid smile on his face all the time?! LOL I'm sure a lot of people will respond with yes, but you know what I'm saying.

We will get our smiling Ledger Joker and when it happens it will be glorious.

[Mr. Socko]

That person who created that bust/statue did a really good job, but I LOATHE it.

1) The Joker is wearing face paint and lipstick as you can tell because the rest of his body is normal color which proves he didn't fall into a vat of chemicals, and his ears aren't even painted.

2) The person who created that statue a while ago said he was trying to make the Joker as if he were a biker character. I don't like that idea really.

3) He has no eyebrows, I don't really like the smile either

And mostly

4) He looks like Rumplestiltskin from that horror film.


Ok, enough of my rant. Someone get me a damn cup of coffee, pronto!

[Booznian]

So I heard that Joker, when he robs the bank takes off his mask and already has a whiteface, red lips, and green hair? So does this mean that Batman made him fall into toxic waste before this incident, or Joker just has a feminine side? So during the Chicago filmed scenes, Joker is cut by a wire, then a boomerang?

[TheBat812]

You know what?

I want to see Ledger smile. In make-up. All the images we've been getting he has a big serious face on. I want to see the f***er smile.
calm down man, we're still more than a year a way from release. You'll get your smile... in time.

[Judson Caspian]

There could be some flashbacks. But not a solid origin story.

[Mr. Socko]

From what I've heard, he'll be chalk skinned/green hair/normal red lips when the movie begins. His origin is not explained. Then Batman gashes him on the zipline and that is how he gets the f'd up cheeks.

[BubbaGump]

Maybe that's how Joker gets the cut-smile? When he's sliding down the wire from the bank? Sounds interesting, but not quite memorable.

And in Nolan's TDK, I'm not sure Batman caused the Joker's transformation. At the end of Begins, he was already at large.

[PretentiousMan]

First The Joker prances around Gotham with a tinge of green hair. Then he robs a bank and escapes via a school bus. The bus crashes and he gets a large gash on his cheeks. The gash disappears slightly when he goes to see a plastic surgeon. The Joker starts walking down the street and gets hit by another school bus. His hair turns green because a little kid drops green paint on his head. Another gash forms on his balls. He goes home and sees that his lips are bloody, so he paints over them with lipstick. He meets up with Batman and his face turns white with fear. He then paints over his face and we have THE JOKER. Again.

[Mr. Socko]

^NO


Just No.

[CConn]

Yes.

Oh, YES.

Make love to me, you stallion.

[Mr. Socko]

I would but it makes my eyes water.

[TheBat812]

So I heard that Joker, when he robs the bank takes off his mask and already has a whiteface, red lips, and green hair? So does this mean that Batman made him fall into toxic waste before this incident, or Joker just has a feminine side? So during the Chicago filmed scenes, Joker is cut by a wire, then a boomerang?
From what I've gathered, there will be no origin as we expect it. It will however, show his progression into a more and more insane being. He will most likely get the gashes when trying to escape from the bank where Batman will uses his batarang to cut his escape wire, which snaps and gives Joker the scar. We're unsure if it causes both scars or if it just causes the one on the left side, and then Joker carves the other side to complete the smile. All of this is pure speculation at this point though.

But what's with all this talk about joker having a feminine side? Nobody has said that, people have just asked if it will be prominent in the movie, which has not been answered.

[bestever23]

Shoot I want the Laugh

[BmAaTn3625]

If you look at the scar on the left of the picture on the right side of his face it looks like he did....just a thought from looking at it

[Bruce Wayne Jr.]

Although, I've been anti scar since day one, I do like how it curves at the cheek. Great choices there.

Since they've gone in that direction they might as well extend how far the mouth opens. (judging from the original pic, it looks as though it's just a scar.) Someone here did mention the muscles in the cheek would be rendered useless as a result, but c'mon! Nolan can choose to blur those real life lines.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l39/RReyesAcosta/jokermanipsmall.jpg

Come to think of it, it does echo the 89 smile. Still, I'm hoping we all get to see something close to this once the scar eventually heals.

[Bruce Wayne Jr.]

Yeah,
December'll roll around before we know it though.

[StarvingArtist]

That person who created that bust/statue did a really good job, but I LOATHE it.

1) The Joker is wearing face paint and lipstick as you can tell because the rest of his body is normal color which proves he didn't fall into a vat of chemicals, and his ears aren't even painted.

2) The person who created that statue a while ago said he was trying to make the Joker as if he were a biker character. I don't like that idea really.

3) He has no eyebrows, I don't really like the smile either

And mostly

4) He looks like Rumplestiltskin from that horror film.


Ok, enough of my rant. Someone get me a damn cup of coffee, pronto!

http://www.willdrawforfood.com/TheJoker.jpg

First off, this bust was a concept design for a Batman elseworld story I was working on with a friend of mine. It's true I was heavily influenced by a very "Nolan" way of thinking in terms of bringing a deeper sense of realism to the look of this character, though it isn't necessarily a rendition of the mainstream Joker. If I sculpted mainstream Joker, the design would be very similar with minor tweaks. However:

1.) I hate the acid bath/failed comedian origin. If there was ever an origin in need of retconning, it's that one.

2.) Neither do I, which is why I never said that.

3.) The lack of eyebrows was a design choice. To each his own. But as for the eyebrows (or lack thereof) and the smile, view the inspiration:
http://harlanonline.org/%7Er3mdh/blog/archives/movies/joker.jpg
looks like Joker to me.

4.) Never saw it, but regardless...I guess Rumplestilskin looks like the Joker.






On me :) http://www.delawareaudubon.org/images/coffee.jpg

[Shot Gun Shy]

Did you make that bust ??
Its f ucking GREAT !

[Shot Gun Shy]

Ohhh ok ok starvingartist made that, lol ...
AWESOME.

[StarvingArtist]

Did you make that bust ??
Its f ucking GREAT !

Thanks man. You should see it in person lol a lot of people have been genuinely and surprisingly disturbed by it. The pics don't do it justice.

[LostSon88]

At first I was indifferent to the Nolan Joker but...its starting to grow on me.

[dark_b]

You know what?

I want to see Ledger smile. In make-up. All the images we've been getting he has a big serious face on. I want to see the f***er smile.i guess nolan knows that the smile is very important so he didnt want to realese the first pic with hte smile. i think the first smile we will get from ledger will be in hte trailer.
i could be wrong. but ledger also said that it will be more about the eyes than hte smile. but i dont think that he meant that the joker will nto smile. if you take away the smiling its like you take away the flying from superman IMO.

P.S. and a big p.s. the white will nto eb so white. in hte middle of hes face you can see that there is no texture. that was airbrushed . on the sides you can see hes texture. well this is how it will look. of course the lightining is very strong.

[ghost_x]

You know what?

I want to see Ledger smile. In make-up. All the images we've been getting he has a big serious face on. I want to see the f***er smile.

Finally a rational comment :up:

[Nepenthes]

I think the movie will be a half-origin for the Joker. At the beginning he just -looks- the part but he's not completely crazy as we know him. Maybe the original accident will be alluded too but he's still just a nasty robber despite the skin and hair. When Batman shows up and all the scarring stuff happen during the the movie Joker will evolve into the true Clown Prince of Crime.

Basically the same deal as Scarecow. Crane was kinda Scarecrow before the movie begun, but he wasn't really SCARECROW until the end.

[Thespiralgoeson]

I hate to say it, but I still think we're gonna get a Joker that paints his face and dyes his hair. I know there was talk about his bleached skin looking almost like an albino, but nothing in the picture we have makes me think that. That's obviously grease paint on his face.

[regwec]

Do we generally agree that, whether or not we like "the look", the first picture of it we saw was ill advised? Showing Ledger from an upward angle, thus exentuating his broad face and the sloppy red paint, and blacking out his (hopefully) green hair and (supposedly) characterful eyes seems like a needless provocation, to some extent.

[dark_b]

Do we generally agree that, whether or not we like "the look", the first picture of it we saw was ill advised? Showing Ledger from an upward angle, thus exentuating his broad face and the sloppy red paint, and blacking out his (hopefully) green hair and (supposedly) characterful eyes seems like a needless provocation, to some extent.or maybe teasing?

[TheBatman072]

I hate to say it, but I still think we're gonna get a Joker that paints his face and dyes his hair. I know there was talk about his bleached skin looking almost like an albino, but nothing in the picture we have makes me think that. That's obviously grease paint on his face.


Other then the picture, which is darkly lit, and EXTREMELY close-up, what other proof do you have of this conjecture?

[regwec]

Speaking personally, I would not want to "tease" people with the hint that my film might be flawed in at least one respect.

[hannya]

Speaking personally, I would not want to "tease" people with the hint that my film might be flawed in at least one respect.

Whether the fans like the new design or not, releasing a picture of the most eagerly awaited character design more than a year before the release date was a huge mistake. Easy to say in retrospect, but a neck-down shot of the Joker revealing his costume would have had just as much (if not more) impact.
I thought they would build up the tease slowly with the full reveal of the Joker coming just before the release of the film.
We could have had ANYTHING instead as an initial teaser picture: the new Batmobile, the new Batsuit, even production design pictures of the Narrows, whatever.
But now we've seen the Joker's face, what is there left for a maximum impact promo shot in the final weeks prior to release? Not much I fear.:csad:

[dark_b]

Whether the fans like the new design or not, releasing a picture of the most eagerly awaited character design more than a year before the release date was a huge mistake. Easy to say in retrospect, but a neck-down shot of the Joker revealing his costume would have had just as much (if not more) impact.
I thought they would build up the tease slowly with the full reveal of the Joker coming just before the release of the film.
We could have had ANYTHING instead as an initial teaser picture: the new Batmobile, the new Batsuit, even production design pictures of the Narrows, whatever.
But now we've seen the Joker's face, what is there left for a maximum impact promo shot in the final weeks prior to release? Not much I fear.:csad:you are living in a dream world if you thought that they will nto promote the main villain from TDK.

[hannya]

you are living in a dream world if you thought that they will nto promote the main villain from TDK.

No, I'm living in the real world where I believe WB promoted the main villain TOO EARLY. Read my post again, Captain Skimread.

[dark_b]

No, I'm living in the real world where I believe WB promoted the main villain TOO EARLY. Read my post again, Captain Skimread.
sorry didnt understand the part in your post.

[ghost_x]

It's not even so much the case that it is the main villain of the film, it's more so a case of the characters notoriety in history, both in comics and film. He is one of the most recognisable faces in the comic world to the public. The case that this is a fairly altered version of the character, may in fact turn many off of the film, so whilst this was released in order to tease cinema goers, it may also be marketing suicide. I suppose we won't be able to distinguish it's impact entirely until the box office figures come in.

[Keyser Soze]

Going back to an earlier topic of discussion on the thread, I saw "Zodiac" yesterday (excellent film, BTW, possibly the best of the year so far), and I think we can add "Hurdy Gurdy Man" by Donovan to songs that fit The Joker! :woot:

[ghost_x]

I really want to go see Zodiac, havn't had time to see many films recently, and theres so many out that I want to check out. Magicians is one I specifically would like to see.

[breyfogle_rules]

Whether the fans like the new design or not, releasing a picture of the most eagerly awaited character design more than a year before the release date was a huge mistake. Easy to say in retrospect, but a neck-down shot of the Joker revealing his costume would have had just as much (if not more) impact.
I thought they would build up the tease slowly with the full reveal of the Joker coming just before the release of the film.
We could have had ANYTHING instead as an initial teaser picture: the new Batmobile, the new Batsuit, even production design pictures of the Narrows, whatever.
But now we've seen the Joker's face, what is there left for a maximum impact promo shot in the final weeks prior to release? Not much I fear.:csad:

Bats in an incredible new costume?

[Keyser Soze]

I really want to go see Zodiac, havn't had time to see many films recently, and theres so many out that I want to check out. Magicians is one I specifically would like to see.

Well, "Zodiac" isn't exactly an easy film to watch. It may be directed by David Fincher, but "Se7en" it ain't. If anything, the movie I'd say it closest resembles is "JFK". Like that, it's a murder mystery without an ending, as the real-life history of the case sadly dictates.

But really, the whole issue of the Zodiac killings is just a plot device, really. The real fascinating stuff comes from the three leading performances by Jake Gyllenhaal, Mark Ruffalo and Robert Downey Jr, showing how their obsession with the mystery systematically corrupts and destroys their lives. Like the tagline of the film says "There's more than one way to lose your life to a killer."

[ghost_x]

It does seem more performance orientated, something that excites me with Fincher at the helm. Plus, I'm a sucker for Robert Downey Jr's performances

[breyfogle_rules]

Going back to an earlier topic of discussion on the thread, I saw "Zodiac" yesterday (excellent film, BTW, possibly the best of the year so far), and I think we can add "Hurdy Gurdy Man" by Donovan to songs that fit The Joker! :woot:

I dunno. I found the Donovan song part a little device-like.
Epic 70's song is playing low on radio. Killer creeps up from behind, starts a-killin. Song volume is brought way up while the event is slowed down.

Not only is it a complete Scorcese cliche (it's even cliche when HE does it at this point), but Scorcese even used a Donovan song that exact way in Goodfellas (Atlantis).

That said, Zodiac was GORGEOUS looking.
But not my cup of tea really. I like BBC who-dunnits. I'm essentially an old lady.

[raybia]

No, I'm living in the real world where I believe WB promoted the main villain TOO EARLY. Read my post again, Captain Skimread.

They promoted him over a year only because they knew it was a matter of time before somebody snagged an unofficial unflattering close up picture of Ledger as the Joker and posted on the net.

This was a preemptive stike by WB that makes sense. Also I have doubts that the pic of the Joker will be the final look of the character.

[Antonello Blueberry]

Well, "Zodiac" isn't exactly an easy film to watch. It may be directed by David Fincher, but "Se7en" it ain't. If anything, the movie I'd say it closest resembles is "JFK". Like that, it's a murder mystery without an ending, as the real-life history of the case sadly dictates.

But really, the whole issue of the Zodiac killings is just a plot device, really. The real fascinating stuff comes from the three leading performances by Jake Gyllenhaal, Mark Ruffalo and Robert Downey Jr, showing how their obsession with the mystery systematically corrupts and destroys their lives. Like the tagline of the film says "There's more than one way to lose your life to a killer."
The obsession doesn't destroy anybody's life. Robert Downey Jr character was on the path of self destruction before dealing with the Zodiac killings, Mark Ruffalo's cop keeps on being a respected cop despite of his inability to find the murderer. Only Gyllenhaal's Graysmith risks of ruining his life because of his obsession, but everything gets back to normal in the end.
The problem, if we want to call it problem, of the movie is that it tries to reflect the reality of the investigations made of false leads, errors, people that suddenly disappear and so it doesn't follow strictly the storytelling flow we're used to. And it's not a thriller in any way. So people going into the theaters expecting a traditional thriller may easily get bored.

[raybia]

Whether the fans like the new design or not, releasing a picture of the most eagerly awaited character design more than a year before the release date was a huge mistake. Easy to say in retrospect, but a neck-down shot of the Joker revealing his costume would have had just as much (if not more) impact.
I thought they would build up the tease slowly with the full reveal of the Joker coming just before the release of the film.
We could have had ANYTHING instead as an initial teaser picture: the new Batmobile, the new Batsuit, even production design pictures of the Narrows, whatever.
But now we've seen the Joker's face, what is there left for a maximum impact promo shot in the final weeks prior to release? Not much I fear.:csad:

It may be that we didn't see as much as we think.

[breyfogle_rules]

^^I was one of those bored people. MAN, when it comes to movies...always trust the Italian.

[bondreborn]

The ONE thing I didn't like about the Joker pic was the sloppy red paint. Can't we at least have some symettry? And the Goth look may be a bit OTT too.

[FlawlessVictory]

The ONE thing I didn't like about the Joker pic was the sloppy red paint. Can't we at least have some symettry? And the Goth look may be a bit OTT too.

Yea, the sloppiness of the red lipstick is the only thing that bothers me. I'm fine with the rest.

[abcdefz]

Well, "Zodiac" isn't exactly an easy film to watch. It may be directed by David Fincher, but "Se7en" it ain't. If anything, the movie I'd say it closest resembles is "JFK". Like that, it's a murder mystery without an ending, as the real-life history of the case sadly dictates.





...the attack by the water was the hardest one for me. That imagery still sticks with me. True horror.

[sasquatchs]

I'd absolutely love a Batman film with more elements of Zodiac, the killer in the background the whole time teasing Batman, leads that go nowhere rather than the usual contrivances. Beyond fantasy though unless WB want to make 2 pence at the box office

But not my cup of tea really. I like BBC who-dunnits. I'm essentially an old lady.

Do you get Midsomer Murders in the US? A sleepy English county filled with scone eating pensioners, and the murder rate of NY. :woot:

[ghost_x]

Oh god, Midsomer Murders, it plays out like the holocaust of aristocratic britain

[Dcknight]

i heard in another threads that the origin is that before he became the joker he was one of maroni's Thug, then they decided to take him off of the band and they cut his mouth like a smile for some reason and that thinkinghe was dead they drop him in a chemical pool. And that Dent has something to do wit it and this is why joker do that on that publicity politics poster of Harvey dent, or something like that, but i found that was a good idea

[breyfogle_rules]

^^I was thinking more Prime Suspect.
Notice my Helen Mirren icon.

[bondreborn]

I'd absolutely love a Batman film with more elements of Zodiac, the killer in the background the whole time teasing Batman, leads that go nowhere rather than the usual contrivances. Beyond fantasy though unless WB want to make 2 pence at the box office

I would have preferred Zsasz to have been more the independent serial killer he is in the comics (was? I dunno, is he still in the comics?), rather than just one of Falcone's henchmen.

[ghost_x]

^^I was thinking more Prime Suspect.
Notice my Helen Mirren icon.

Have you noticed that Helen Mirren in her prime resembles Jennifer Tilly

[breyfogle_rules]

Have you noticed that Helen Mirren in her prime resembles Jennifer Tilly

Hmm, a bit. One of Mirrens appeals has always been her slight androgeony. Tilly is all woman. Mmmmm.

Dang. May have to change my icon to Tilly now.

[ghost_x]

I love Tilly for one simple reason, that woman can play some mean poker. I find that totally sexy

[JStorm]

Joker thread?

With all the posts, I thought there was some news today. But, instead, I find a lovefest for Chucky's girlfriend. :confused:

Well.. I guess Tilly could play Harley, fifteen years and seventy-five pounds ago.

[abcdefz]

Go back and re-watch The Big Chill just to see Meg Tilly stretching in leotards.

Oh. My. God.

[breyfogle_rules]

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/4052/10045391zb2.jpg

Do not deny the Tilly

[JStorm]

This thread needs an enama!

[kenellard]

I believe it does..... :woot:

[SHADOWBAT69]

I have a question. Where is it stated that that is red lipstick hes wearing? I was under the belief that the red was caused by chemicles being splashed to the mask he was wearing causing it to bleed thru to his skin? Or did I dream that? In any instance, I still dont remember reading that its red lipstick.

[Boom]

We can rebuild it. We have the technology.

The question is: How much are we willing to spend?

[JStorm]

We can rebuild it. We have the technology.

The question is: How much are we willing to spend?

This day, the Batman boards went slummin'.


The Hype will be closed tonight; I think I will take my leave now.

[TheBatman072]

I have a question. Where is it stated that that is red lipstick hes wearing? I was under the belief that the red was caused by chemicles being splashed to the mask he was wearing causing it to bleed thru to his skin? Or did I dream that? In any instance, I still dont remember reading that its red lipstick.


That mask thing was debunked. And besides, the mask Heath wears? The mouth is blue.


I'm betting his skin is going to be bleached white, and his hair will be dyed perma-green. But he'll wear the lipstick to pull the look together. Just like Joker did in Dark Knight Returns.

[breyfogle_rules]

^^That would be the first aspect of this joker I would not need to STRUGGLE with to find a way to like.

[ghost_x]

I very much expect Joker to attempt to sort out the mess caused by the accident.

[Jinnobi]

The Joker is going to be really great in this film. The whole realistic approach is what is making these the best comic movies ever.

[breyfogle_rules]

You know what? Lets discuss the implications of this very interesting panel from Arkham.

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/6096/untitled1ns1.jpg

It was THIS panel that changed my opinion of this recent Joker reveal from a 3 to a 7.

[ghost_x]

The Joker is going to be really great in this film. The whole logistic approach is what is making these the best comic movies ever.

Much better

[Dark52Knight]

Alright....check this outt....a little bit of an epihany

Rumors of the scarecrow in TDK

Rumors of someone seeing the Joker under the influence of fear gas

The mayor being cast in TDk

Does this remind anybody of anything
How about Knightquest, The joker and scarecrow kidnapp the mayor and then expose him to the fear gas, after which the major himself sees the Joker under the influence of the gas. The use the gas to convince the major to do what they want him to do.........This could explain all the rumors and connect alot of things......seeing joker in a fear gas hallucination, the major, the scarecrow.....NOLAN could be taking this strait from the comics.

This is great...even if this isnt what happens in the movie....just think about it...For the first time in the history of batman movies, Gotham is coming alive and the characters are true to form. We are argueing over how the joker looks, and we are not even realizing how well Nolan is bringing Gotham to life....Rha's, Joker, Harvey Dent, Scarecrow, Gordon, Fox, Alfre, The Waynes, The riddler?, Mr. Zasz (spelling), Gotham's major, The bat signal, Arkham Asylum, The Gotham that Nolan is creating is amazing, it's finally coming to life the way we recognize it in the comics.........This movie will go down in history as a classic!

[TheBat812]

Alright....check this outt....a little bit of an epihany

Rumors of the scarecrow in TDK

Rumors of someone seeing the Joker under the influence of fear gas

The mayor being cast in TDk

Does this remind anybody of anything
How about Knightquest, The joker and scarecrow kidnapp the mayor and then expose him to the fear gas, after which the major himself sees the Joker under the influence of the gas. The use the gas to convince the major to do what they want him to do.........This could explain all the rumors and connect alot of things......seeing joker in a fear gas hallucination, the major, the scarecrow.....NOLAN could be taking this strait from the comics.

This is great...even if this isnt what happens in the movie....just think about it...For the first time in the history of batman movies, Gotham is coming alive and the characters are true to form. We are argueing over how the joker looks, and we are not even realizing how well Nolan is bringing Gotham to life....Rha's, Joker, Harvey Dent, Scarecrow, Gordon, Fox, Alfre, The Waynes, The riddler?, Mr. Zasz (spelling), Gotham's major, The bat signal, Arkham Asylum, The Gotham that Nolan is creating is amazing, it's finally coming to life the way we recognize it in the comics.........This movie will go down in history as a classic!
I doubt it. This is Joker's movie. In my opinion Crane will not team up with the Joker. That story also sounds pretty lame. I think the mayor role will be minor.

[Dark52Knight]

Just because joker is the main character dosent mean he wont use henchmen, I wouldnt be suprised to see other like firefly or cornelius strict either.....It's also a great story, I just didnt explain it welll, and that is a minor role for the mayor

[IamtheBatman]

I hope Joker's henchmen don't wear purple leather jackets like in Batman 89'.

[ToddIsDead]

They need to bring back the guy that played Bob.

[ghost_x]

Tracey Walters still in like every film to this day

[StorminNorman]

Tracey Walters still in like every film to this day

I am on pins and needles waiting for the sure-to-be instant classic "Trailer Park OF HORROR"!!!!!!!

[IamtheBatman]

They need to bring back the guy that played Bob.

Hey Bob died from his #1 guy Joker.

[dark_b]

bob was great.

[raybia]

Bring back Bob...DAMMIT!

[Carmine Falcone]

Bob was the best thing about B89

[J. J. Jameson]

Bob was the best thing about B89

Yes. :hyper:

[The Kid]

Joker just offing his own henchmen at any moment is 100% spot on Joker.

Wasn't the New Bob that guy in begins yelling "where are you?" Looked like him...

[Doc Samson]

"Why didn't somebody tell me he had one of those....things?!"

"Bob.....Gun."

:woot: That's so classic, I loved that part

[uchiha_itachi]

Joker just offing his own henchmen at any moment is 100% spot on Joker.

Wasn't the New Bob that guy in begins yelling "where are you?" Looked like him...


it really did

[FlawlessVictory]

You know what? Lets discuss the implications of this very interesting panel from Arkham.

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/6096/untitled1ns1.jpg

It was THIS panel that changed my opinion of this recent Joker reveal from a 3 to a 7.

Nice one breyfogle. I can see the Ledger Joker fitting in with that.

[Memphis Slim]

I was hoping that the Joker would not have henchmen. That raises the "corn" factor for me. I was hoping of a more serial mastermind. Bob Kane had him killing rich socialites in an early 1940's story.
__________________________________________________ ______



Bill Finger found a photograph of actor Conrad Veidt wearing make-up for the silent film The Man Who Laughs, and it was from this photograph that the Joker was modeled. This influence was referenced in the graphic novel Batman: The Man Who Laughs, a retelling of the first Joker story from 1940.

The credit for creation of the Joker is disputed. Kane responded in a 1994 interview to claims that Jerry Robinson created the character:

“ Bill Finger and I created the Joker. Bill was the writer. Jerry Robinson came to me with a playing card of the Joker. That's the way I sum it up. [The Joker] looks like Conrad Veidt — you know, the actor in The Man Who Laughs, [the 1928 movie based on the novel] by Victor Hugo. [...] Bill Finger had a book with a photograph of Conrad Veidt and showed it to me and said, 'Here's the Joker'. Jerry Robinson had absolutely nothing to do with it. But he'll always say he created it till he dies. He brought in a playing card, which we used for a couple of issues for him [the Joker] to use as his playing card".[3]
In his initial dozen or so appearances, starting with Batman #1 (1940), the Joker was a straightforward spree killer/mass murderer, with a bizarre appearance modeled after the symbol of the Joker known from playing cards. It is of note that in his second appearance he was actually slated to be killed off, with the final page detailing the villain accidentally stabbing himself, lying dead as Batman and Robin run off into the night. DC editor Whitney Ellsworth thought the Joker was too good a character to kill off, suggesting that he be spared. A hastily drawn panel, calculated to imply that the Joker was still alive, was subsequently added to the comic.

[Memphis Slim]

http://warchild13.com/images/TheManWhoLaughs9.jpg

[Memphis Slim]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2d/Man_who_laughs.jpg/180px-Man_who_laughs.jpg


http://youtube.com/watch?v=jDNkiGbAN-s

[Booznian]

I was just wondering if he pants his face for fun, or if he fell into a chemical pool. I was thinking something like he was one of Maronis men, and then they decide to kill him throw him in a pool of chemicals, then Harvey tries to stop Joker from a rampage after his coloring and then Joker gets all mad and yeah?

[Mr. Socko]

I use to be creeped out by that picture of Conrad. But now I've seen it more times than I've blinked.

[Stanley Ipkiss]

hi everybody

[Mr. Socko]

Hello...let's talk about The Joker.

[the dark joker]

Hello...let's talk about The Joker.

ok wat do yu want to talk about

[Noir]

ok wat do yu want to talk about
The Joker.

[ghost_x]

Who?

[Killing Joke926]

I have a theory on the new pic of the Joker: Maybe this pic is when Joker just got out of the chemical bath. Sure he'd probably have the Chelsea Smile, but perhaps his lips (or lipstick) could just be chemical reaction that he could probably wash off simply with water. I could see Ledger now portraying the scene from the Killing Joke when he's looking at himself in the water and then finally goes insane; further more, he could have accidentally smeared the red crap (possibly blood) over his face.

GENIUS!:woot:

[ThatDamnNinja]

This isn't really a response to anything, but I have a positive to say about the picture that, to my knowledge, hasn't been brought up yet:

It doesn't really look like Heath Ledger. I mean, you can tell it's him, if you look. But you don't look at it and see Heath Ledger. Which is a good thing. That would distract me from the character. It just looks like a psychopath.

[Killing Joke926]

This isn't really a response to anything, but I have a positive to say about the picture that, to my knowledge, hasn't been brought up yet:

It doesn't really look like Heath Ledger. I mean, you can tell it's him, if you look. But you don't look at it and see Heath Ledger. Which is a good thing. That would distract me from the character. It just looks like a psychopath.

I agree; even though the new Joker doesn't look like the Joker, I do show tolerance to the fact the Ledger hid his face to not make him look like Ledger. Nolan was right.......it's all in the eyes. They are hidden in shadow just like Hamill's Joker.

[Killing Joke926]

Here's an idea; what if they put in the Red Hood. But it wouldn't be the criminal, but the gang name Pre-Joker use to be apart of......any thoughts?

[Memphis Slim]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/ryansoldout/jokebackmountain.jpg

WHY CAN'T I QUIT YOU MR. WAYNE?

[Spider-Bat]

That is not the Joker!!! Nuff Said.:cmad:

[Shot Gun Shy]

oh but it is, oh but it is ...

[Memphis Slim]

I can't see them marketing any action figures off of this version of The Joker......

[ghost_x]

I can't see them marketing any action figures off of this version of The Joker......

GOOD!

[Keyser Soze]

I can't see them marketing any action figures off of this version of The Joker......

Judging by the crappy level of detail in the "Batman Begins" figures, The Joker figure would look exactly the same whether or not his mouth was scarred in the film.

[Juggernaut33]

I can't see them marketing any action figures off of this version of The Joker......

That's exaclty what Heath Ledger said. His Joker is not going to be "marketable". That's very good.

[strikezone89]

i cant wait the new joker is fantastic. scary and realistic.
i think all the "haters" will like him better when they get a full body shot.

[ROBOCOP CPU001]

I want to see him act the part.. this is just "part" of his character, the rest will be in his performance.

[Rynan]

I can't see them marketing any action figures off of this version of The Joker......

People saying "GOOD" or "That's what I want" or something idiotic like that are fools who need to get off the computer and see the world.

I worry about the kids with this. This will be our comic book legacy. I'm just waiting for the day one my little cousins tells me about The Joke's cut smile, then my soul will die. Lucky for my cousins, I can give them the history of this character and explain why this is a bad thing. Other children won't be so lucky. That is, if they can even see the movie at all. Most parents will shy away from a disfigurement like that, which would then make this a Batman Returns situation and we all know what happened after BR.

[ghost_x]

Ye so anyway, heard this intro song and thought it was pretty good,

http://www.sendspace.com/file/vo2i8v

[Mercurius]

People saying "GOOD" or "That's what I want" or something idiotic like that are fools who need to get off the computer and see the world.

I worry about the kids with this. This will be our comic book legacy. I'm just waiting for the day one my little cousins tells me about The Joke's cut smile, then my soul will die. Lucky for my cousins, I can give them the history of this character and explain why this is a bad thing. Other children won't be so lucky. That is, if they can even see the movie at all. Most parents will shy away from a disfigurement like that, which would then make this a Batman Returns situation and we all know what happened after BR.

I didn't like the Joker look for the movie either, but these reasons of yours are just the wrong ones.

You have to remember that the Joker is known for barbarious acts of true violence that make this scar in his face look like a gentle smile. Think about the killing of Robin and the cruel shot that broke a certain spine.

Batman tales have always had a strong dark & evil stress: that's in the very beginning of his story and trauma.

Nolan can't just make wholesome fairy tales for all the family about the world of Batman. It wouldn't make sense.