The man who laughs: The Joker thread

[Darkest Knight]

I'm simply saying take it down a notch or two,debate the point not the person
For the most part I am, bro. If I called someone an idiot, or stupid ... I didn't mean it in actuality. It was meant in more tongue in cheek argument fashion. Little ball busting. But being called an idiot is hardly abrasive. People sling petty insults like that all the time around here. Are you just now noticing it when I say it? And it's just now a problem? This is hardly me getting bent out of shape. Just so you know ...

However I appreciate the pep talk. I'll try harder not to snap on people.

:ninja:

[Hunter Rider]

That and that disturbing full-page opening panel, with the close-up of Joker's face accompanied by HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA filling the background.

I'm not too keen on the art in the rest of that particular story (The Joker looks a bit too cherubic in parts), but this cover and that first page really are iconic Joker.

I'd love to see a shot like that in TDK

Done.

Ever read that actual story yourself?

Sadly no,is it available in Trade form ?

[Keyser Soze]

Done.

Ever read that actual story yourself?

I've read it. But I'm a cheapskate. I read the whole story in the comic-store without buying it! :woot:

It's a very good take on The Joker, and a refreshing return to form after the 50s/60s camp. But I must say I prefer "The Laughing Fish", which I also read in the comic-store, but I might go back and buy!

[Keyser Soze]

I'd love to see a shot like that in TDK



Sadly no,is it available in Trade form ?

The Greatest Joker Stories Ever Told
The Greatest Batman Stories Ever Told

[The Joker]

Sadly no,is it available in Trade form ?

It is indeed.

You can find it in 'The greatest Joker stories ever told' TPB, which features other classic gems like his first appearance in Batman #1, the laughing fish two parter from the 70's, and 'Dreadful birthday dear Joker' from the 80's.

[Darkest Knight]

This is the kind of **** Hunter is talking about.
And let Hunter tell me that. Obviously the guy is baiting me. But seriously, does that show fortitude trying to talk me down in a post to someone else, as opposed to having the guts to actually address me ... the person he has a problem with? That's a cowardly act, and he thinks he can get away now with saying anything because he has me on ignore, and he won't see my replys. If this hit a nerve, it is because it is true.

[Hunter Rider]

For the most part I am, bro. If I called someone an idiot, or stupid ... I didn't mean it in actuality. It was meant in more tongue in cheek argument fashion. Little ball busting. But being called an idiot is hardly abrasive. People sling petty insults like that all the time around here. Are you just now noticing it when I say it? And it's just now a problem? This is hardly me getting bent out of shape. Just so you know ...

However I appreciate the pep talk. I'll try harder not to snap on people.

:ninja:

Posters are constantly getting probations and infractions for throwing words like moron and idiot around,it's all flaming whether you are doing it as a joke or not,we can't tell that through a screen and ive dealt with many long before you for that very reason so no i'm not just noticing it and Boom pointed out you doing it again in that post back there,it ends between you two now ok ?

[Darkest Knight]

Darkest Knight, if you want to know the proper way to deal with this, be the bigger man and just ignore Joker. It takes two people for an argument to continue, and Joker has already agreed the two of you should move on.
No he didn't, he was sackless and tried baiting me in a parting shot in a post directed at you. Being a bigger man is dealing with something. Not ignoring it, and pretending its not there. I appreciate your advice, and your attempt to keep me level headed ... but really, I'm not that mad. Just think its sad dude acted in such a cowardly manner.

[Hunter Rider]

It is indeed.

You can find it in 'The greatest Joker stories ever told' TPB, which features other classic gems like his first appearance in Batman #1, the laughing fish two parter from the 70's, and 'Dreadful birthday dear Joker' from the 80's.

I'll have to order it from amazon:up: that appearance in number one is the one with the radio message killings right ?

I wish i could get hold of The Man Who Laughs Trade

[Keyser Soze]

I'd love to see a shot like that in TDK

I want to see THIS iconic scene recreated in TDK:

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/4951/crazyjokeryn4.jpg

[Boom]

And let Hunter tell me that.
He has, yet you don't seem to be listening.

Here's a thought. Ignore the guy. If he's not hitting a nerve, then that shouldn't be difficult, right?

[The Joker]

I'll have to order it from amazon:up: that appearance in number one is the one with the radio message killings right ?

That's right.

I love how he ended his broadcasts with "The Joker has spoken" :D

I wish i could get hold of The Man Who Laughs Trade

That trade is like gold dust. I paid a hefty price for mine on ebay last year.

[Hunter Rider]

I want to see THIS iconic scene recreated in TDK:

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/4951/crazyjokeryn4.jpg

That's not realisitic:cmad::oldrazz::woot:

[Keyser Soze]

I'll have to order it from amazon:up: that appearance in number one is the one with the radio message killings right ?

I wish i could get hold of The Man Who Laughs Trade

I have "The Man Who Laughs". I hunted it down for a LONG time before I finally found it at a Memorabillia Fair convention in Glasgow. Worth the wait, though. Great read.

[FlawlessVictory]

I want to see THIS iconic scene recreated in TDK:

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/4951/crazyjokeryn4.jpg

That little kid has been hitting the gym.

[Darkest Knight]

He has, yet you don't seem to be listening.
Here's a thought, why are you addressing me on this. It's not your position or job. Play your roll, and talk about the subject matter. Me and Hunter already have this ironed out. I know where everything stands, cool?

[Hunter Rider]

That's right.

I love how he ended his broadcasts with "The Joker has spoken" :D

Great:D i want to read this one before TDK given what we have heard



That trade is like gold dust. I paid a hefty price for mine on ebay last year.

I have "The Man Who Laughs". I hunted it down for a LONG time before I finally found it at a Memorabillia Fair convention. Worth the wait, though. Great read.

Damn i want to read it before TDK,i keep hoping they will re issue it in the promotional run in

[Keyser Soze]

That little kid has been hitting the gym.

Robin appears to be admiring his little tight shorts...

[Boom]

I want to see THIS iconic scene recreated in TDK:

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/4951/crazyjokeryn4.jpg
I don't know how lenient the MPAA would be towards a scene that graphic.

[Darkest Knight]

I wish i could get hold of The Man Who Laughs Trade
I could hook you up, I have a few copies.

[Mr. Socko]

I've only been on probation once in the 2 years I've been here.

[Boom]

Here's a thought, why are you addressing me on this. It's not your position or job. Play your roll, and talk about the subject matter. Me and Hunter already have this ironed out. I know where everything stands, cool?
Because I didn't come into this thread to see two people bickering back and forth. Kinda hard to discuss the subject material when every other post is "He's a COWARD!!" "GROW A SACK!!"

I'm addressing you because I'm asking you to cool it. Being somebody who wants to talk about the subject matter, I believe I'm fully entitled to that request.

[Keyser Soze]

I've only been on probation once in the 2 years I've been here.

I've never been on probation in the 5 YEARS I've been here! AHA! :oldrazz:

[Darkest Knight]

I'm addressing you because I'm asking you to cool it. Being somebody who wants to talk about the subject matter, I believe I'm fully entitled to that request.
It's over and done, yet you're still acting like a moderator. A hall-way monitor or something. Drop it, bro. It's over.

[Hunter Rider]

I could hook you up, I have a few copies.

:wow:A few ? man how did you come by a few,one is like finding the Ark lol

[Darkest Knight]

I've never been on probation in the 5 YEARS I've been here! AHA! :oldrazz:
And YOU rep the Joker ... :oldrazz: , shame on you. He'd be dissapointed.

[Keyser Soze]

Because I didn't come into this thread to see two people bickering back and forth. Kinda hard to discuss the subject material when every other post is "He's a COWARD!!" "GROW A SACK!!"

I'm addressing you because I'm asking you to cool it. Being somebody who wants to talk about the subject matter, I believe I'm fully entitled to that request.

You do realise that, by continually telling him to stop, you are actually keeping the argument going?

It's become one of these fights were those involved seem to have even lost track of what they're supposed to be fighting about.

[Boom]

It's over and done, yet you're still acting like a moderator. A hall-way monitor or something. Drop it, bro. It's over.
If it's over, then I'd be happy to drop it, "bro."

[Darkest Knight]

:wow:A few ? man how did you come by a few,one is like finding the Ark lol
I don't know. They got this big comic book franchise up here called "Grahm Crackers". I got my first one there, and that was DAMN hard to find, as they had to track it down months after it came out. The next time, I actually found it at my school's bookstore. Fresh, never been touched.

[Darkest Knight]

If it's over, then I'd be happy to drop it, "bro."
Alright then, captain mod. Back to the Joker then?

[Boom]

Cool man. Back to the Joker then?
He ate my last cherry popsicle :csad:.

[J. J. Jameson]

I could hook you up, I have a few copies.

How much you asking?

[Darkest Knight]

How much you asking?
I forget what I payed. Nothing more than $10 or $15.

[Darkest Knight]

It's truly the best Joker story. Well, I still have yet to read the Joker Fish story, or Five Way Revenge ... cause I can't find that damn "Best of Joker" graphic novel.

[Hunter Rider]

I've never been on probation in the 5 YEARS I've been here! AHA! :oldrazz:

Damn that's 2 less than me:wow::oldrazz:

I don't know. They got this big comic book franchise up here called "Grahm Crackers". I got my first one there, and that was DAMN hard to find, as they had to track it down months after it came out. The next time, I actually found it at my school's bookstore. Fresh, never been touched.

That is awesome:up: i got a couple of feelers out right now so i don't want to buy two at once but will you still have a spare copy in a few weeks if my end doesn't work out ? the price you quoted is excellent we'd just have to sort out delivery and payment given we are in different countries

[Keyser Soze]

Just a note, folks. That picture I posted up here came from Rynan, over on the Iconic Joker Imagery thread. He was upset about me not giving him credit for the image, and I realise I was wrong for not giving him his due. Much thanks to him for that find.

[FlawlessVictory]

He ate my last cherry popsicle :csad:.

He had room for that? He kicked major @$$ at the pie eating contest. :cwink:

[Darkest Knight]

Yeah, w/o a doubt.

[Rynan]

I forget what I payed. Nothing more than $10 or $15.

I got it free from Ccon. Ask him for it.

[Darkest Knight]

He had room for that? He kicked major @$$ at the pie eating contest. :cwink:
Are you guys referring to the none precise lipstick application? :whatever:

:woot:

[Darkest Knight]

I got it free from Ccon. Ask him for it.
I have it.

:huh:

[Boom]

He had room for that? He kicked major @$$ at the pie eating contest. :cwink:
Don't tell me....CHERRY pie :eek:?!

[FlawlessVictory]

Are you guys referring to the none precise lipstick application? :whatever:

:woot:

I was just having some fun, it's the only thing that bothers me about the image. However, I am confident that everything will work out well at the end, after we have seen the movie.

[FlawlessVictory]

Don't tell me....CHERRY pie :eek:?!

Hehe. :woot:

[Darkest Knight]

I mean, he has to cover the gouges to make it a smile. He can't exactly pencil over those huge cuts and gashes.

[Hunter Rider]

I got it free from Ccon. Ask him for it.
I know Chris has it on comp but i am looking to get the actual book:cwink:

Don't tell me....CHERRY pie :eek:?!

Harley Pie:hyper::ninja:

[Darkest Knight]

Harley Pie:hyper::ninja:
WHOA ... :wow:

Jokers freaky like that. Dude even gets down when it's that time of the month. Sicko.

[Keyser Soze]

WHOA ... :wow:

Jokers freaky like that. Dude even gets down when it's that time of the month. Sicko.

Joker likes the taste of foetus...

[FlawlessVictory]

I mean, he has to cover the gouges to make it a smile. He can't exactly pencil over those huge cuts and gashes.

It's not the coloring over the gashes that bother me, it's actually that one little spot above his upper lip. I know it's tiny, but for some reason that just annoys me. That one little, itty bitty spot!!! :cmad:

Harley Pie:hyper::ninja:

:wow: LMAO!!! :woot:

[Keyser Soze]

It's not the coloring over the gashes that bother me, it's actually that one little spot above his upper lip. I know it's tiny, but for some reason that just annoys me. That one little, itty bitty spot!!! :cmad:

"Out, damn spot!"

[FlawlessVictory]

"Out, damn spot!"

Haha

[Hunter Rider]

Well i'm off guys,try not to kill each other while i'm gone:cwink:We are ALL batfans first and foremost remember:up:

[ANTOINE X]

I think this will do :yay:


http://www.irancartoon.com/100/kruger/michael-Jackson.jpg

[Mr. Socko]

http://www.evilkumquat.com/images/michael_jackson_joker.jpg

[Noir]

http://www.evilkumquat.com/images/michael_jackson_joker.jpg
HOLY SHI! Do you have the trailer or something!? Where did you get that screen cap!?

[donk70]

HOLY SHI! Do you have the trailer or something!? Where did you get that screen cap!?
That's Michael Jackson

[Mr. Socko]

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, quiet you fool!



Yes, NOIR, that is an official picture and I do happen to have the trailer. Chris Nolan mailed it to me yesterday, I'm serving as a consultant on TDK.

[donk70]

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, quiet you fool!



Yes, NOIR, that is an official picture and I do happen to have the trailer. Chris Nolan mailed it to me yesterday, I'm serving as a consultant on TDK.

Umm, yes NOIR. Please forgive my hastefully made judgement. If you want to see the trailer, I'm sure Socko would be glad to share it with you, for a small fee. Please PM him about his PayPal preferences.

[Mr. Socko]

Hehehehe lol

[American_Idiot]

It says on Heath Ledger's site that this is the official Joker poster. Not sure if it's been posted here yet... "NOT ALL JOKES ARE FUNNY".

http://www.heathledger.net/_main/images/stories/About%20Heath/Filmography/The%20Dark%20Knight.jpg

[Rezzo]

It says on Heath Ledger's site that this is the official Joker poster. Not sure if it's been posted here yet... "NOT ALL JOKES ARE FUNNY".

http://www.heathledger.net/_main/images/stories/About%20Heath/Filmography/The%20Dark%20Knight.jpg

It´s a little hard to believe that´s an official poster, really looks fanmade

[Bond]

It´s a little hard to believe that´s an official poster, really looks fanmade
That's because it is.

It was made by somebody on this site as a matter of fact.

[Bandyt]

They would pull a new pic out of their asses if they were going to release a Poster.

[raybia]

This is off topic but thought of the night:

Thank god Jake Gynellhaul didn't get the role of Batman/Bruce Wayne is Nolan's series.

[BatJew]

edit

Totally. There are two things wrong with him. One, he isnt buff enough and two, he has a girly voice. Christian Bale is a brilliant actor.

[raybia]

Totally. There are two things wrong with him. One, he isnt buff enough and two, he has a girly voice. Christian Bale is a brilliant actor.

Plus he would be working opposite of his sister in TDK. :dry:

[Nepenthes]

^ and I bet Bruce and Rachael have to make-out again in TDK :wow:

[BatJew]

^ and I bet Bruce and Rachael have to make-out again in TDK :wow:
Hopefully the Joker kills her and uses the old nude photo ploy to try and drive Batman insane (ala The Killing Joke).

[sonnyleesmith]

Ok, I'm brand new here, and I fully expect to be bashed for this.

I have doubts that this is even Heath Ledger in the pic. His lips (sans prothstetics and lipstick) are too full and his nose isnt as round at the tip as Heaths. I don't know if even I believe it, but This could be a pic of one of the Joker's victims. A couple reasons:

1. The physical features stated above
2. The smeared makup job, appearing to be applied could be one of his calling cards. He defaces his victims like he defaced the IBIHD poster
3. WB has only "no comment"ed the pic, no where has WB or any other "credible" source said for sure it was Ledger.
4. The gash across the face seems to be inflicted by a madman.
5. Not smiling, could be dead

I know I'm crazy. Go ahead with your flaming, I can take it.

good to be on here though:)

[American_Idiot]

Ok, I'm brand new here, and I fully expect to be bashed for this.

I have doubts that this is even Heath Ledger in the pic. His lips (sans prothstetics and lipstick) are too full and his nose isnt as round at the tip as Heaths. I don't know if even I believe it, but This could be a pic of one of the Joker's victims. A couple reasons:

1. The physical features stated above
2. The smeared makup job, appearing to be applied could be one of his calling cards. He defaces his victims like he defaced the IBIHD poster
3. WB has only "no comment"ed the pic, no where has WB or any other "credible" source said for sure it was Ledger.
4. The gash across the face seems to be inflicted by a madman.
5. Not smiling, could be dead

I know I'm crazy. Go ahead with your flaming, I can take it.

good to be on here though:)

Welcome aboard. :cwink:

I'm pretty sure this is Ledger we're looking at in this photo though. If I knew nothing of Ledger playing the Joker and you were to show me this photo and ask who it was, my guess would mos' definitely be Heath Ledger.

[The Kid]

No worries. A handful of us here aren't jerks...

I have an eye for facial details I guess since I'm a bit of an artist as a hobby and that's definitely heath's face in my opinion.

Edit: Damn idiot beat me to it.

[sonnyleesmith]

Your probably right, I guess it was just wishful thinking.

[American_Idiot]

No worries. A handful of us here aren't jerks...

I have an eye for facial details I guess since I'm a bit of an artist as a hobby and that's definitely heath's face in my opinion.

Edit: Damn idiot beat me to it.

Is that "damn idiot" beat me to it, or "damn, comma, idiot (abbrev.) beat me to it? :cwink:

[The Kid]

I uh, hmm, didn't think you'd notice that. :D

[American_Idiot]

I uh, hmm, didn't think you'd notice that. :D

Ha! Nevah!

Now, is Nolan being the new Burton a compliment or insult to the director? It can be taken either way.

[The Kid]

I like to keep it open to interpretation. It wouldn't matter if I explained it anyway. Some people just want to think the worst of me no matter what.

[Nepenthes]

His lips (sans prothstetics and lipstick) are too full and his nose isnt as round at the tip as Heaths. I don't know if even I believe it, but This could be a pic of one of the Joker's victims. A couple reasons:

1. The physical features stated above

The way the pic is shot makes his whole snout look bigger than it really is. His lips are 2.5 inches closer the the lense than his eyeballs are and it's hard to perceive any depth of field. I think they shot this way to really accentuate the smile and freak us out. The smile is all they really wanted to give away with this teaser; we don't see green hair or a clear view of eyes or skin or any revealing type of face expression.

[American_Idiot]

I like to keep it open to interpretation. It wouldn't matter if I explained it anyway. Some people just want to think the worst of me no matter what.

Well, you're A-ok with me. I don't frequent the boards enough to dislike anyone here...yet.

I'll take it as a compliment. Burton's films were for the most part, well respected by most fans, even if Returns was pushin' the envelope a little with it's sewer-dwelling, nose-bitin', clown-lovin' Penguin. It wasn't until Schumacher came into the picture that the franchise fell flat on it's face.

[The Kid]

Well I don't think any superhero interpretation is ever completely wrong, just different, and if it works it works, if not it doesn't. That said, I'm in complete agreement that Burton's penguin's less objectionable than TFINO and RINO and PINO and BINO etc. from the schumacher days. I've softened on them over the years but I still have the emotional scars from when I saw what a drastic shift in tone there was for my cherished batman movies. Say what you want about burton in hindsight after seeing batman begins, but he didn't have batman's ass fill the screen.

[American_Idiot]

I'm with you all the way. I wish Burton would have directed Batman Forever and it's sequel. I wonder what would have happened with the franchise then. If Burton would've eventually retired and handed it over to Nolan anyway. Who knows.

[ghost_x]

The Nolan and Burton franchises are two separate entities. They both work on their own merits, and generally have varying negative aspects. To be honest, as horrible as the Schumacher films were, if Burton had really gone ahead with 'Forever', I'm not sure how much better that one would of turned out. The idea of a black Robin who's a mechanic, let alone being played by Marlon Wayans, doesn't sit too well with me.

[American_Idiot]

The Nolan and Burton franchises are two separate entities. They both work on their own merits, and generally have varying negative aspects. To be honest, as horrible as the Schumacher films were, if Burton had really gone ahead with 'Forever', I'm not sure how much better that one would of turned out. The idea of a black Robin who's a mechanic, let alone being played by Marlon Wayans, doesn't sit too well with me.

Huh?? Is that what Burton had in mind for Forever? You gotta be kiddin', right. I figured Burton would more-than-likely leave Robin out completely. If there's any merit to what you just said, then daaaamn, it's probably a blessing that he didn't do the third installment. As for the fourth, well, not one character in that was done right, especially Bane being played by a gorilla. That was just silly. :cwink:

[ghost_x]

Take a little look at this, and you will see that maybe begging for Burton's return for the third Batman movie, wouldn't of been such a good idea.

http://www.geocities.com/burtonsbatman3/intro.html

[American_Idiot]

Take a little look at this, and you will see that maybe begging for Burton's return for the third Batman movie, wouldn't of been such a good idea.

http://www.geocities.com/burtonsbatman3/intro.html

Well, I wasn't exactly begging. Just a thought that had crossed my mind. But I'll take a looksy anyway.

[ghost_x]

I wasn't talking about you, I'm just saying the hundreds of fans who thought it was a tragedy that Burton never returned.

[American_Idiot]

I read most of it. Robin Williams would've made for an interesting Riddler. Wayans as Robin, or Batman's black teenage friend would've been...for lack of a better word...lame. Who knows how it all would've panned out. For me, Forever is equal to Returns. It wasn't until B&R that I lost all faith in that franchise.

Enough talk about the past though. Yay for Nolan. Yay for the Dark Knight.

[ghost_x]

Yay for Ledger as Joker, he's going to deliver something special, I'm certain of it, it's going to be unique to say the least, whether or not it will be a great performance or not, it will certainly be unexpected.

[dark_b]

Yay for Ledger as Joker, he's going to deliver something special, I'm certain of it, it's going to be unique to say the least, whether or not it will be a great performance or not, it will certainly be unexpected.
i hope.

[Crook]

I wasn't talking about you, I'm just saying the hundreds of fans who thought it was a tragedy that Burton never returned.
Eh, I don't really see what was so horrible about that. I would've LOVED to see Williams do his take on the Riddler, he's a fantastic actor and it's a shame he never really got a role in this franchise.

As for the accuracy to the source, honestly B89/BR strayed pretty far, but yet I loved both films. I'm sure Burton's third would've been going along the same tone which I don't mind one bit. His direction was perfect for Batman imo.

What I wonder most, is what he would've done with a more accurate to the comics script, since choosing screenplays is admittedly his worst trait. :o

[ghost_x]

I think we all do

[American_Idiot]

I agree 100%. As I stated earlier, somewhere on these forums, Ledger has proven to be a very versatile actor. As far as raw talent goes, I say he's already surpassed Nicholson.

[Crook]

I agree 100%. As I stated earlier, somewhere on these forums, Ledger has proven to be a very versatile actor. As far as raw talent goes, I say he's already surpassed Nicholson.
Let's not go overboard...

[ghost_x]

Eh, I don't really see what was so horrible about that. I would've LOVED to see Williams do his take on the Riddler, he's a fantastic actor and it's a shame he never really got a role in this franchise.

As for the accuracy to the source, honestly B89/BR strayed pretty far, but yet I loved both films. I'm sure Burton's third would've been going along the same tone which I don't mind one bit. His direction was perfect for Batman imo.

What I wonder most, is what he would've done with a more accurate to the comics script, since choosing screenplays is admittedly his worst trait. :o

For me at least, it's not a case of straying from the comics, as Batman Begins has taught me, as long as a compelling story can be constructed, I don't mind slight deviations. My issue with Burton's third movie, is the way it all sounds so contrived, especially with Robin, firstly I don't like the Wayans Brothers, and the thought of Marlon as Robin, doesn't sit right with me at all. The whole manner in which it is introduced into the script (which I'm not sure if you've read) doesn't feel natural, the fact that he is a mechanic and a Batman fanatic, feels wrong.

On a plus note, I would indeed of liked to of seen Williams as the Riddler

[dark_b]

Let's not go overboard...are we talking about jack who is always palying jack?

[American_Idiot]

I don't think I am. Nicholson seems like a cool guy and all, but as far as acting goes, he doesn't seem to have a wide range. He's always very "Jack Nicholson-y" in just about every role I've seen him in. His character in the Shining was similar to his Joker. His character in As Good As It Gets was identical to the character he portrayed in Somethings Gotta Give, and so on. He's no Johnny Depp or Tom Hanks. People like him because he's fun to watch and they've grown to love ol' Jacky-boy as a person. Ledger, on the other hand, plays completely different roles in each of his films. I can't think of any films beyond A Knight's Tale, where he's played a character similar to any of his others.

[Keyser Soze]

I don't think I am. Nicholson seems like a cool guy and all, but as far as acting goes, he doesn't seem to have a wide range. He's always very "Jack Nicholson-y" in just about every role I've seen him in. His character in the Shining was similar to his Joker. His character in As Good As It Gets was identical to the character he portrayed in Somethings Gotta Give, and so on. He's no Johnny Depp or Tom Hanks. People like him because he's fun to watch and they've grown to love ol' Jacky-boy as a person. Ledger, on the other hand, plays completely different roles in each of his films. I can't think of any films beyond A Knight's Tale, where he's played a character similar to any of his others.

Nicholson may not have a lot of range. Neither does DeNiro or Pacino. But he is phenomenally good at what he does, making him arguably the greatest living actor in the world today, or at least one of the greatest.

Heath Ledger is a very good actor, and will do great as The Joker. But he's not surpassed Nicholson, no way. When Ledger has built up a CV that matches or surpasses this:

- Easy Rider
- Five Easy Pieces
- The King of Marvin Gardens
- The Last Detail
- Chinatown
- One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest
- The Shining
- A Few Good Men
- The Crossing Guard
- As Good As It Gets
- The Pledge
- About Schmidt
- The Departed

Or has become as iconic and charismatic a performer as Nicholson has been for the past 30+ years, then we'll talk about Ledger being on Nicholson's level.

[Crook]

There ya go, couldn't have put it better. Extra emphasis on that last part. Nicholson is by far the coolest actor in Hollywood. :D

[ghost_x]

I think the discussion was about versatility, rather than the ability to convey emotion on screen. Which is essentially the point where many get mistaken over how to define a great actor. Is it the ability to camouflage into the role, so much so the actor becomes unrecognisable (Johnny Depp has perfected this), or the simple skill in making the audience care for the character or mould the audience to believe what the character is portraying, this is a technique assigned to the more classic actors of our time, James Dean, Bogart, DeNiro, Pacino and as mentioned Nicholson.

Neither is a lesser technique of acting, they are just different approaches. The chameleon ability is one needed far more in contemporary society, as we are bombarded day to day with news and pictures of actors, and when seeing them in a role we simply see what the magazines are showing us on a daily basis, thus disguising yourself in the role will force the audience to believe in the character more.

[Nepenthes]

- Easy Rider
- Five Easy Pieces
- The King of Marvin Gardens
- The Last Detail
- Chinatown
- One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest
- The Shining
- A Few Good Men
- The Crossing Guard
- As Good As It Gets
- The Pledge
- About Schmidt
- The Departed


Not too mention the Nokia95 commercial, "there's a thing in my pocket". :hyper: Beat that Heath Ledger....

[Keyser Soze]

I think the discussion was about versatility, rather than the ability to convey emotion on screen. Which is essentially the point where many get mistaken over how to define a great actor. Is it the ability to camouflage into the role, so much so the actor becomes unrecognisable (Johnny Depp has perfected this), or the simple skill in making the audience care for the character or mould the audience to believe what the character is portraying, this is a technique assigned to the more classic actors of our time, James Dean, Bogart, DeNiro, Pacino and as mentioned Nicholson.

Neither is a lesser technique of acting, they are just different approaches. The chameleon ability is one needed far more in contemporary society, as we are bombarded day to day with news and pictures of actors, and when seeing them in a role we simply see what the magazines are showing us on a daily basis, thus disguising yourself in the role will force the audience to believe in the character more.


Great post, and one I'd be inclined to agree with.

In defense of Jack Nicholson's style of acting, I remember reading a quote from him that went something like this:

"The way I see it, if people are paying money to see a film with your name in big letters on top of the poster, then they're going to want to see a little bit of you on-screen."

Which could be a good point. Nicholson has proven in films like "The King of Marvin Gardens", "The Pledge" and "About Schmidt" that he is perfectly able to "disappear" into a role, and give powerful, engaging performances that are nothing like his famous "Jack" persona. But at the same time, these have been among his least commercially-successful ventures.

[hannya]

Or has become as iconic and charismatic a performer as Nicholson has been for the past 30+ years, then we'll talk about Ledger being on Nicholson's level.

I think that's the key, performer or actor. It's the difference between "movie star" and "actor". Redford: movie star, Newman: actor. Pitt: movie star, Depp: actor. Nicholson: movie star, Ledger..... WE SHALL SEE!!!

[Keyser Soze]

I think that's the key, performer or actor. It's the difference between "movie star" and "actor". Redford: movie star, Newman: actor. Pitt: movie star, Depp: actor. Nicholson: movie star, Ledger..... WE SHALL SEE!!!

See my post above to show that Nicholson is capable of being an "actor" too.

[Carmine Falcone]

Is it the ability to camouflage into the role, so much so the actor becomes unrecognisable (Johnny Depp has perfected this)


Gary. Oldman.

[ghost_x]

Yep, Gary Oldman is one of those actors

[Carmine Falcone]

Yep, Gary Oldman is one of those actors

It's amazing really. When you watch Batman begins and JFK you wouldn't say that Gordon and Oswald are the same guy.

[ghost_x]

I think Gordon is his most out of type role, I found his by the books, family guy Gordon to be his most versatile role to date. He was brilliant.

[ROBOCOP CPU001]

Thats his job, to be a chameleon . people like Ashton kutcher seem to forget that.

[dark_b]

gar oldman is a fantastic actor. i think there are 3 movies where i also didnt know that he was playing.

[dark_b]

Thats his job, to be a chameleon . people like Ashton kutcher seem to forget that.he is an actor?

[itsthebatman]

I think Gordon is his most out of type role, I found his by the books, family guy Gordon to be his most versatile role to date. He was brilliant.
Hardly.It was a good, subtle performance, but hardly particularly demanding. Sid and Nancy, JFK, Dracula, Leon - these are better examples of his skills. I hope they give him more to do in TDK.

[ROBOCOP CPU001]

he is an actor?


and a crap one, its just Ashton kutcher..in another film.

[Carmine Falcone]

I hope they give him more to do in TDK.

I kinda doubt it. Especially with so many new characters coming in. On the other hand, there is is the alledgiance between Dent, Bats and him so who knows?

[ghost_x]

Hardly.It was a good, subtle performance, but hardly particularly demanding. Sid and Nancy, JFK, Dracula, Leon - these are better examples of his skills. I hope they give him more to do in TDK.

Read again, I wasn't talking about how skillful his performance was, I was referring to how out of type it was for Oldman. He more often than not plays the antagonist.

[itsthebatman]

I kinda doubt it. Especially with so many new characters coming in. On the other hand, there is is the alledgiance between Dent, Bats and him so who knows?
That's what I hope as well. Some good rooftop scenes, and maybe some meatier dialogue. No silly scenes with the Tumbler, and we're all set.

[itsthebatman]

Read again, I wasn't talking about how skillful his performance was, I was referring to how out of type it was for Oldman. He more often than not plays the antagonist.
You can't call the role versatile, you can call him versatile for playing it and going against type. either way, it's semantics, and I know what you mean now.

[Carmine Falcone]

No silly scenes with the Tumbler, and we're all set.

I actually love that bit. :p

[ROBOCOP CPU001]

I actually love that bit. :p



Me to..


"Hold On!!!"

as the theme kicks in... love it!:woot: :hyper:

[itsthebatman]

I actually love that bit. :p
I'll get my coat.

[dark_b]

i loved how gordon couldnt handle the tumbler. in an popcorn batman movei gordon would jump from rooftops.

[sasquatchs]

i loved how gordon couldnt handle the tumbler. in an popcorn batman movei gordon would jump from rooftops.

Hmmm, they made Gordon the comic relief in part through the film. The Gordon+Tumbler stuff was kind of cheesy, the levity ruined the tone. The whole of act 3 was really inappropriate though.

[ghost_x]

There's nothing wrong with lightening the tone for some moments, the film would be too much to handle without the humour integrated here and there. What about the one liners, 'what you call that?'...'damn good television'. Dialogue like that is needed to stop the movie taking itself too seriously. I see nothing wrong with it.

[ROBOCOP CPU001]

Me either..

would people prefer,

"i want a car, the chicks dig the car?"

"this is why superman works alone"

ugh.

[Keyser Soze]

There's nothing wrong with lightening the tone for some moments, the film would be too much to handle without the humour integrated here and there. What about the one liners, 'what you call that?'...'damn good television'. Dialogue like that is needed to stop the movie taking itself too seriously. I see nothing wrong with it.

Yeah. Even in serious films, its good to have some humour to relieve tension. Even Shakespeare included comedy scenes in his tragedies, in order to create contrast for the darker parts of the story, therefore making them more dramatic. If characters are always serious, all the time, the film is in danger of becoming what I call "poe-faced".

And for the record, I really liked Gary Oldman's Gordon. And though it's not saying much, it's the best live action interpretation of the character we've ever seen.

[sasquatchs]

"Damned good television" was good

"I've gotta get me one of those"
"Nice coat"
"Excuse me"

Not so good. Its more that they were crap lines than anything else, they're ok the first viewing but after that they just grate for all eternity, cheapens the moment

[Keyser Soze]

"Damned good television" was good

"I've gotta get me one of those"
"Nice coat"
"Excuse me"

Not so good. Its more that they were crap lines than anything else, they're ok the first viewing but after that they just grate for all eternity,

The only line in the entire film that makes me cringe whenever I watch "Batman Begins" is "Nice coat." It's just the whole context of it:

"Nice coat."
*FWOOOOOOSH!* up into the sky...

Most (if not all) comic book movies have several moments in them where you cringe, and feel a bit embarassed, particularly if you're watching with non-comic fans. It's therefore very good that "Batman Begins" only has one such moment.

[ghost_x]

I don't consider any of those to be pieces of Oscar winning dialogue, but they don't detract anything from the film either.

[kytrigger]

I loved Alfred's line " I hope you're not a member of the fire brigade" probably the most out of the funny lines.

[ROBOCOP CPU001]

The only line in the entire film that makes me cringe whenever I watch "Batman Begins" is "Nice coat." It's just the whole context of it:

"Nice coat."
*FWOOOOOOSH!* up into the sky...

Most (if not all) comic book movies have several moments in them where you cringe, and feel a bit embarassed, particularly if you're watching with non-comic fans. It's therefore very good that "Batman Begins" only has one such moment.



I quite liked that line,

:o

[sasquatchs]

The thing about the "Damned good television" line is that its a nice moment of relief with Alfred after a tense scene, but he's not going to be thinking about the irony of how he appears to the inmates in Arkham, he's in the middle of saving Rachel from death, by almost killing several cops no less

[Lobster Charlie]

Man, I love the "nice coat" line. After all that tension, I thought it was a perfect topper to a killer scene. Didn't embarrass me one bit.

"Excuse me" was rather throwaway, "Does it come in black" was a decent one-liner, but "I've gotta get me one of those" made me slap my forehead in shame.

[ghost_x]

He must of killed a number of cops in that chase, especially when he releases the land mines and the cop car flies into another,

[ROBOCOP CPU001]

The funniest line is from Alfred, and in the film is


http://www.sendspace.com/file/twuu3d

[Keyser Soze]

Man, I love the "nice coat" line. After all that tension, I thought it was a perfect topper to a killer scene. Didn't embarrass me one bit.

"Excuse me" was rather throwaway, "Does it come in black" was a decent one-liner, but "I've gotta get me one of those" made me slap my forehead in shame.

Oh, I forgot about the OTHER "slap your forehead" moment.

WHIMPERING BRAT: My fwiends will never bewieve meeeeee!

[BubbaGump]

He must of killed a number of cops in that chase, especially when he releases the land mines and the cop car flies into another,

"You're lucky no one was killed." -Alfred. :whatever:

[Schlosser85]

Hmmm, they made Gordon the comic relief in part through the film.

I agree, Gary Oldman is so good as Gordon in his best scenes- where he meets Bruce/Batman for the first time, that rooftop scene at the end, etc.- that it makes the sillier ones more annoying. After all, Gordon is supposed to be kind of a serious, almost depressed man isn't he? Alfred is really the only character who should be providing any comic relief, and even he shouldn't go too far in a comedic direction. Alfred was balanced nicely in BB.

[Lobster Charlie]

He must of killed a number of cops in that chase, especially when he releases the land mines and the cop car flies into another,

I don't know about kill, but I'm sure a lot of them got hurt. Maybe a little too "DKR" for a "Begins" film, if ya ask me.

[The Joker]

I don't know about kill, but I'm sure a lot of them got hurt. Maybe a little too "DKR" for a "Begins" film, if ya ask me.

I love your avatar :up:

[Kelly]

Hmmm, they made Gordon the comic relief in part through the film. The Gordon+Tumbler stuff was kind of cheesy, the levity ruined the tone. The whole of act 3 was really inappropriate though.

How should someone react to being handed the keys to a car like that and then told...."its up to you......" I would have sat down and cried....:woot:

[Cobblepot]

"Damned good television" was good

"I've gotta get me one of those"
"Nice coat"
"Excuse me"

Not so good. Its more that they were crap lines than anything else, they're ok the first viewing but after that they just grate for all eternity, cheapens the moment

Nice coat and Excuse me, bother me alot. They make me cringe every time.

[BubbaGump]

Even though Gordon had some bad lines, I still think Gary Oldman is the perfect Gordon. He looks the part, acts the part...I can't think of anyone else playing his character.

[sasquatchs]

How should someone react to being handed the keys to a car like that and then told...."its up to you......" I would have sat down and cried....

I'd probably get in the tumbler and drive the hell out of there :woot:

They treated the scene badly though, I think it was written during filming as Nolan decided he loved the tumbler too much to destroy it. The whole thing was like a bit of fun, lets laugh as Gordon struggles to play with a high-tech toy. When the entire city is about to be destroyed. I appreciate levity, but after the things over, not during it. It just harks back to standard Hollywood convention a little too much.

[Castlewood]

Heath Ledger is a very good actor, and will do great as The Joker. But he's not surpassed Nicholson, no way.

Or has become as iconic and charismatic a performer as Nicholson has been for the past 30+ years, then we'll talk about Ledger being on Nicholson's level.

But here's the thing.

I know EXACTLY who Jack Nicholson is. He's played "himself" in so many movies, we can just hear his VOICE and say, "Ha, that's Jack!". Although he's a very good actor (and I'm not so sure he's the BEST, honestly), his biggest flaw is that he definitely doesn't make himself uncomfortable by going OUTSIDE his OWN character. It's always "Jack Nicholson is this movie / that movie", instead of "The Joker brought to life" or "Mob boss in The Departed brought to life"... It's always "Jack as himself".

The thing with Heath Ledger is.... I don't know who the hell that man is. He has given me no clear indication of what he's really like, who he is, what his true personality is... I have no idea who he is. In real life, he's just a hunk with a charming smile, and that's literally all I know.

- 10 Things I Hate About You
- The Patriot
- A Knight's Tale
- Monster's Ball
- Lords of Dogtown
- Brokeback Mountain
- Candy

I have seen all of those movies multiple times, and each time I watch them, I am unable to gain any new knowledge of who the hell he REALLY is. That's the mark of a damn good actor. He's just a huge question mark. Every time I see him, I just get this image in my head:

Heath Ledger = ?

So I think this is why he was chosen to be The Joker. He might not look EXACTLY like the comics.... but the thing is, we know nothing about The Joker, and we know nothing about Heath Ledger.. so I almost look at them as if they're the same exact person. They're parallel characters, because nothing is truly known about either of them.

And when we see Ledger as Joker, we won't be thinking "Heath Ledger is playing the Joker". Instead, we'll be thinking: "We are seeing The Joker on screen." Nicholson couldn't do that for me.... Everytime I see B'89, I say, "This is Jack Nicholson playing the Joker."

So, in MY honest opinion, Heath Ledger is actually a better actor than Jack Nicholson. Just because Jack's been around longer doesn't mean crap. Heath Ledger will be around 30 years from now just like Jack is now... and I'm sure all of the overrated praise we give Jack will be given to Ledger in 2036. The difference is... Ledger will actually deserve that recognition.

[Crook]

You had me a little bit going until that last sentence. :dry:

[Castlewood]

You had me a little bit going until that last sentence. :dry:

I know... I was getting fired up.

Forgive me. :oldrazz:

[dark_b]

i think heath will become like depp. an actoro who doesnt whant attention.

[sasquatchs]

Heath Ledger = ?


This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkOpJsdjrEU) is a pretty good clip. Or maybe its better not to know.

He has a great nervous energy . "I like physical transformations, representing emotions in the body and the voice"

[Keyser Soze]

But here's the thing.

I know EXACTLY who Jack Nicholson is. He's played "himself" in so many movies, we can just hear his VOICE and say, "Ha, that's Jack!". Although he's a very good actor (and I'm not so sure he's the BEST, honestly), his biggest flaw is that he definitely doesn't make himself uncomfortable by going OUTSIDE his OWN character. It's always "Jack Nicholson is this movie / that movie", instead of "The Joker brought to life" or "Mob boss in The Departed brought to life"... It's always "Jack as himself".

The thing with Heath Ledger is.... I don't know who the hell that man is. He has given me no clear indication of what he's really like, who he is, what his true personality is... I have no idea who he is. In real life, he's just a hunk with a charming smile, and that's literally all I know.

- 10 Things I Hate About You
- The Patriot
- A Knight's Tale
- Monster's Ball
- Lords of Dogtown
- Brokeback Mountain
- Candy

I have seen all of those movies multiple times, and each time I watch them, I am unable to gain any new knowledge of who the hell he REALLY is. That's the mark of a damn good actor. He's just a huge question mark. Every time I see him, I just get this image in my head:

Heath Ledger = ?

So I think this is why he was chosen to be The Joker. He might not look EXACTLY like the comics.... but the thing is, we know nothing about The Joker, and we know nothing about Heath Ledger.. so I almost look at them as if they're the same exact person. They're parallel characters, because nothing is truly known about either of them.

And when we see Ledger as Joker, we won't be thinking "Heath Ledger is playing the Joker". Instead, we'll be thinking: "We are seeing The Joker on screen." Nicholson couldn't do that for me.... Everytime I see B'89, I say, "This is Jack Nicholson playing the Joker."

So, in MY honest opinion, Heath Ledger is actually a better actor than Jack Nicholson. Just because Jack's been around longer doesn't mean crap. Heath Ledger will be around 30 years from now just like Jack is now... and I'm sure all of the overrated praise we give Jack will be given to Ledger in 2036. The difference is... Ledger will actually deserve that recognition.


You must have missed the conversation that went on a while back, about how Nicholson and Ledger belong to two different schools of performance, one no less valid than the other. And you also must have missed me giving examples such as "The King of Marvin Gardens" and "About Schmidt", where Jack Nicholson IS able to completely shed all elements of the "Jack" superstar persona to deliver an immersive "invisible" performance.

Now, I know you like Nolan's Batman over Burton's Batman. I do too. But please don't let your need to hammer home the point of this franchise's superiority drive you to make overreaching claims like Jack Nicholson is "overrated". Yes, in "Batman", it was Jack Nicholson being Joker. That was "Jack", as a brand. I happened to like the performance, but it was a "superstar performance" rather than vanishing into the character. So yes, I think that Heath Ledger has every chance of being a better JOKER than Jack. But that has nothing to do with him being a better ACTOR than Jack.

Of all the films you listed, the only one that really has any enduring power is "Brokeback Mountain". But even that doesn't reach the classic status of "Chinatown", or "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest", two of the greatest movies of the 70s, a decade recognised by many as the best in the history of cinema.

And with the case of these movies - "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest" in particular - the presence of Nicholson is crucial to the film's success. Bearing that in mind, consider "Brokeback Mountain". Good movie, with a great performance by Heath Ledger. But you yourself acknowledge that he disappeared into the role. He did, so much so that another, equally talented actor could have pulled off the role just as well. Yes, being able to disappear into a character is one kind of gift as an actor. But being able to deliver a performance so memorable and iconic that it feels the film could never have been made without that actor is also a gift, and a formidable one at that.

[American_Idiot]

But here's the thing.

I know EXACTLY who Jack Nicholson is. He's played "himself" in so many movies, we can just hear his VOICE and say, "Ha, that's Jack!". Although he's a very good actor (and I'm not so sure he's the BEST, honestly), his biggest flaw is that he definitely doesn't make himself uncomfortable by going OUTSIDE his OWN character. It's always "Jack Nicholson is this movie / that movie", instead of "The Joker brought to life" or "Mob boss in The Departed brought to life"... It's always "Jack as himself".

The thing with Heath Ledger is.... I don't know who the hell that man is. He has given me no clear indication of what he's really like, who he is, what his true personality is... I have no idea who he is. In real life, he's just a hunk with a charming smile, and that's literally all I know.

- 10 Things I Hate About You
- The Patriot
- A Knight's Tale
- Monster's Ball
- Lords of Dogtown
- Brokeback Mountain
- Candy

I have seen all of those movies multiple times, and each time I watch them, I am unable to gain any new knowledge of who the hell he REALLY is. That's the mark of a damn good actor. He's just a huge question mark. Every time I see him, I just get this image in my head:

Heath Ledger = ?

So I think this is why he was chosen to be The Joker. He might not look EXACTLY like the comics.... but the thing is, we know nothing about The Joker, and we know nothing about Heath Ledger.. so I almost look at them as if they're the same exact person. They're parallel characters, because nothing is truly known about either of them.

And when we see Ledger as Joker, we won't be thinking "Heath Ledger is playing the Joker". Instead, we'll be thinking: "We are seeing The Joker on screen." Nicholson couldn't do that for me.... Everytime I see B'89, I say, "This is Jack Nicholson playing the Joker."

So, in MY honest opinion, Heath Ledger is actually a better actor than Jack Nicholson. Just because Jack's been around longer doesn't mean crap. Heath Ledger will be around 30 years from now just like Jack is now... and I'm sure all of the overrated praise we give Jack will be given to Ledger in 2036. The difference is... Ledger will actually deserve that recognition.


Exactly. Couldn't have put it better myself.

Nicholson is popular, and he plays "Jack Nicholson" well, and like DeNiro, he never really "departs" his safety zone. Nicholson may be in some great movies, but that does put him on Depp's level as far as actual talent goes. Ledger is well on his way to achieving Depp status.

Someone mentioned Brad Pitt earlier as being a movie star rather than a great actor. I disagree. I say Pitt emcompasses both. Not many actors could pull off the accent Pitt did in Snatch, and do it so naturally/convincingly. Matter of fact, an Irish couple I know recently told me that over in Ireland, the Boondock Saints does not have the cult following it does here, simply because they can see right through their Irish accents, while they say Pitt's performance in Snatch is dead-on; if he didn't have such a famous face, he could blend right in over in Ireland without being called out. Now that's a chameleon. Aside from Snatch, compare his roles in Meet Joe Black to Fight Club, Mr. and Mrs. Smith to Troy. I'd say he's versatile.

[ghost_x]

"You're lucky no one was killed." -Alfred. :whatever:

You can't trust everything that man says...:dry:

[ghost_x]

This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkOpJsdjrEU) is a pretty good clip. Or maybe its better not to know.

He has a great nervous energy . "I like physical transformations, representing emotions in the body and the voice" I think Ellen should be playing the Joker

[Keyser Soze]

Exactly. Couldn't have put it better myself.

Nicholson is popular, and he plays "Jack Nicholson" well, and like DeNiro, he never really "departs" his safety zone. Nicholson may be in some great movies, but that does put him on Depp's level as far as actual talent goes. Ledger is well on his way to achieving Depp status.

Someone mentioned Brad Pitt earlier as being a movie star rather than a great actor. I disagree. I say Pitt emcompasses both. Not many actors could pull off the accent Pitt did in Snatch, and do it so naturally/convincingly. Matter of fact, an Irish couple I know recently told me that over in Ireland, the Boondock Saints does not have the cult following it does here, simply because they can see right through their Irish accents, while they say Pitt's performance in Snatch is dead-on; if he didn't have such a famous face, he could blend right in over in Ireland without being called out. Now that's a chameleon. Aside from Snatch, compare his roles in Meet Joe Black to Fight Club, Mr. and Mrs. Smith to Troy. I'd say he's versatile.

Compare "About Schmidt" and "The Departed", "Chinatown" and "The Shining", "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest" and "The King of Marvin Gardens", "The Pledge" and "Easy Rider", "Five Easy Pieces" and "Batman". Jack Nicholson does have a personality that is iconic, and a box-office draw, and is one he often uses in movies. But he has shown a true actor's ability for diversity.

It's easy to limit an actor to a stereotype if you're approaching them from a negative perspective. I could say Johnny Depp always plays quirky, offbeat characters who are lonely sad-clowns at heart. It wouldn't be a fair way to pidgeon-hole his entire storied career, but the same goes for saying Jack Nicholson always plays himself.

[kenellard]

So, in MY honest opinion, Heath Ledger is actually a better actor than Jack Nicholson. Just because Jack's been around longer doesn't mean crap. Heath Ledger will be around 30 years from now just like Jack is now... and I'm sure all of the overrated praise we give Jack will be given to Ledger in 2036. The difference is... Ledger will actually deserve that recognition.
[/COLOR][/SIZE]

I wonder if you'd be of that opinion had Heath Ledger not been cast as the Joker? Congratulations on writing the most wildly untrue paragraph in SHH history :up:

[The Joker]

Jack Nicholson is one of the greatest actors of our time, IMO. I absolutely adored his performance as the Joker.

[ghost_x]

I wonder if you'd be of that opinion had Heath Ledger not been cast as the Joker? Congratulations on writing the most wildly untrue paragraph in SHH history :up:

lol:woot:

[Keyser Soze]

Jack Nicholson is one of the greatest actors of our time, IMO. I absolutely adored his performance as the Joker.

Hey Doc Ock! Don't see you round these parts too often! :woot:

[Muziko]

I have no problem with Nicholson's Joker... because, there are other Nicholson characters that have been kind of "Joker-ish". For example, the character he played in "The Departed" had some Joker-esque qualities to him...I'm not saying he was exactly like the Joker, but he was a ruthless gangster and had a sense of humor with it (opening scene where he shoots a lady in the back of the head, and then laughs because she "fell funny" - even his friend turns to him and tells him he needs to "see someone" (professionally). I think Nicholson can play a crazy person pretty well. If I were to follow the same line of reasoning that other posters use on this board, I guess I'd be implying that Nicholson is crazy as well. But... as it stands, I don't know the man personally, so I wont comment on that aspect of him. I do know that I wouldn't dare to call Nicholson a bad actor, or say that he doesn't deserve the recognition he receives - he's earned it.

I'm really looking forward to Heath Ledger's performance, and although I may compare it to Nicholson's (it's inevitable: two live action Jokers? Who wouldn't compare the performances) that doesn't mean I'm not going to enjoy Heath's performance for what it is: a totally fresh new take on one of the most popular comic book villains of all time... and I have a feeling that it's going to be one hell of a performance.

Cambio y Fuera,
Muziko

[The Kid]

I'm as excited to see heath as I am to see Maggie

[Two-Face]

I have no problem with Nicholson's Joker... because, there are other Nicholson characters that have been kind of "Joker-ish". For example, the character he played in "The Departed" had some Joker-esque qualities to him...I'm not saying he was exactly like the Joker, but he was a ruthless gangster and had a sense of humor with it (opening scene where he shoots a lady in the back of the head, and then laughs because she "fell funny" - even his friend turns to him and tells him he needs to "see someone" (professionally). I think Nicholson can play a crazy person pretty well. If I were to follow the same line of reasoning that other posters use on this board, I guess I'd be implying that Nicholson is crazy as well. But... as it stands, I don't know the man personally, so I wont comment on that aspect of him. I do know that I wouldn't dare to call Nicholson a bad actor, or say that he doesn't deserve the recognition he receives - he's earned it.

I'm really looking forward to Heath Ledger's performance, and although I may compare it to Nicholson's (it's inevitable: two live action Jokers? Who wouldn't compare the performances) that doesn't mean I'm not going to enjoy Heath's performance for what it is: a totally fresh new take on one of the most popular comic book villains of all time... and I have a feeling that it's going to be one hell of a performance.

Cambio y Fuera,
Muziko


I agree, Jack Nicholson is great actor I enjoyed his Joker sure he was scary but still had the Romero take on it that's why Ledger one will be different and if some people waiting Nicholson/Romero type of Joker then they are going be disappointed.

[echostation]

I think Ledger will be scary as hell... demented, twisted and brutal... I think that's the aim I hope they take, it makes sense to...

[American_Idiot]

Compare "About Schmidt" and "The Departed", "Chinatown" and "The Shining", "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest" and "The King of Marvin Gardens", "The Pledge" and "Easy Rider", "Five Easy Pieces" and "Batman". Jack Nicholson does have a personality that is iconic, and a box-office draw, and is one he often uses in movies. But he has shown a true actor's ability for diversity.

It's easy to limit an actor to a stereotype if you're approaching them from a negative perspective. I could say Johnny Depp always plays quirky, offbeat characters who are lonely sad-clowns at heart. It wouldn't be a fair way to pidgeon-hole his entire storied career, but the same goes for saying Jack Nicholson always plays himself.

Someone else mentioned earlier, when you see Jack Nicholson in a film, it's as if you're watching either an exaggerated version or a played down version of a character you've seen him play a before, even in the aforementioned movies above. He's iconic, but he's not a "chameleon". In other words, I don't think Nicholson has the ability to execute any role that is given to him. He takes on roles that are not stretches for him, and he does them well, the people love him for it.

Let's take a look an actor who CAN do just about anything. Tom Hanks. From Forrest Gump to the Ladykillers to the Terminal. He can do it all and do so convincingly. It's hard to imagine Nicholson successfully portraying the character Hanks did in any of these three movies. Matter of fact, I don't believe I've seen him in any roles that require him to use a different accent.

I'm not saying Nicholson is a bad actor. He's not. He's just a bit over-rated. Saying he's one of the best actors of all-time. I just don't agree with that.

Even before Ledger was cast as the Joker, I thought he was great. First, I didn't know it was him in Monsters Ball until someone informed me of it after watching it. I didn't care much for the Brothers Grimm, however, I was once again impressed with his performance in the film. Very different from anything I'd seen him do previously. And lastly, he was unrecognizable in Lords of Dogtown. I had no idea who the actor was until about halfway through the film I remembered someone mentioning that Heath Ledger was in the film. I used process of elimination to come to the conclusion, "holy shat, that IS Heath Ledger!". Not once has Nicholson ever had me second guessing.

The point, Nicholson played an "ok" Joker. I don't have any problems with Batman '89. But based on what I've seen of Ledger so far, I feel Ledger will BECOME the Joker. My expectations are high, but I really think fans will be impressed, to say the least.

[Keyser Soze]

Someone else mentioned earlier, when you see Jack Nicholson in a film, it's as if you're watching either an exaggerated version or a played down version of a character you've seen him play a before, even in the aforementioned movies above. He's iconic, but he's not a "chameleon". In other words, I don't think Nicholson has the ability to execute any role that is given to him. He takes on roles that are not stretches for him, and he does them well, the people love him for it.

Let's take a look an actor who CAN do just about anything. Tom Hanks. From Forrest Gump to the Ladykillers to the Terminal. He can do it all and do so convincingly. It's hard to imagine Nicholson successfully portraying the character Hanks did in any of these three movies. Matter of fact, I don't believe I've seen him in any roles that require him to use a different accent.

I'm not saying Nicholson is a bad actor. He's not. He's just a bit over-rated. Saying he's one of the best actors of all-time. I just don't agree with that.

Even before Ledger was cast as the Joker, I thought he was great. First, I didn't know it was him in Monsters Ball until someone informed me of it after watching it. I didn't care much for the Brothers Grimm, however, I was once again impressed with his performance in the film. Very different from anything I'd seen him do previously. And lastly, he was unrecognizable in Lords of Dogtown. I had no idea who the actor was until about halfway through the film I remembered someone mentioning that Heath Ledger was in the film. I used process of elimination to come to the conclusion, "holy shat, that IS Heath Ledger!". Not once has Nicholson ever had me second guessing.

The point, Nicholson played an "ok" Joker. I don't have any problems with Batman '89. But based on what I've seen of Ledger so far, I feel Ledger will BECOME the Joker. My expectations are high, but I really think fans will be impressed, to say the least.


Being an actor is not always about being do non-descript as a performer that you are unrecognisable. Disappearing into a role is one kind of acting, but like I said earlier, establishing a powerful identity, and leaving your mark on a film, is another kind of acting, and both are valid.

And yes, Tom Hanks is another great actor, one of the best working today. But if I wanted to resort to narrowing preconceptions, I could say "Always plays the everyman do-gooder." Not true, not fair, again, just like dismissing Nicholson.

And for the record, I can only remember Tom Hanks using a different accent once, in "The Terminal". And it wasn't well-recieved.

[kenellard]

Someone else mentioned earlier, when you see Jack Nicholson in a film, it's as if you're watching either an exaggerated version or a played down version of a character you've seen him play a before, even in the aforementioned movies above. He's iconic, but he's not a "chameleon". In other words, I don't think Nicholson has the ability to execute any role that is given to him. He takes on roles that are not stretches for him, and he does them well, the people love him for it.

Let's take a look an actor who CAN do just about anything. Tom Hanks. From Forrest Gump to the Ladykillers to the Terminal. He can do it all and do so convincingly. It's hard to imagine Nicholson successfully portraying the character Hanks did in any of these three movies. Matter of fact, I don't believe I've seen him in any roles that require him to use a different accent.

I'm not saying Nicholson is a bad actor. He's not. He's just a bit over-rated. Saying he's one of the best actors of all-time. I just don't agree with that.

Even before Ledger was cast as the Joker, I thought he was great. First, I didn't know it was him in Monsters Ball until someone informed me of it after watching it. I didn't care much for the Brothers Grimm, however, I was once again impressed with his performance in the film. Very different from anything I'd seen him do previously. And lastly, he was unrecognizable in Lords of Dogtown. I had no idea who the actor was until about halfway through the film I remembered someone mentioning that Heath Ledger was in the film. I used process of elimination to come to the conclusion, "holy shat, that IS Heath Ledger!". Not once has Nicholson ever had me second guessing.

The point, Nicholson played an "ok" Joker. I don't have any problems with Batman '89. But based on what I've seen of Ledger so far, I feel Ledger will BECOME the Joker. My expectations are high, but I really think fans will be impressed, to say the least.

has it occurred to you that the reason you seem to be less able to spot Heath Ledger in movies than Jack is that Nicholson is simply more famous/recognisable than him? Acting ability has little to do with that fact, and please, stop implying that Heath Ledger is a Better actor than Jack Nicholson, you're embarrassing yourself

[American_Idiot]

Being an actor is not always about being do non-descript as a performer that you are unrecognisable. Disappearing into a role is one kind of acting, but like I said earlier, establishing a powerful identity, and leaving your mark on a film, is another kind of acting, and both are valid.

And yes, Tom Hanks is another great actor, one of the best working today. But if I wanted to resort to narrowing preconceptions, I could say "Always plays the everyman do-gooder." Not true, not fair, again, just like dismissing Nicholson.

And for the record, I can only remember Tom Hanks using a different accent once, in "The Terminal". And it wasn't well-recieved.

Hanks put on an accent in all three of the movies I mentioned. In Forrest Gump, he put on a southern drawl, and played a challenged person very convincingly. In the Ladykillers, he had a strong southern accent, but spoke very quick and clear. Road to Perdition, Saving Private Ryan, Catch Me If You Can...different accents in each.

This whole discussion is opinion-based anyway. It is my opinion that a great actor/actress should be able to play just about anything. I don't see Nicholson as having that capability/range. He has established a powerful identity for himself, but that and raw acting talent are two different things to me. I like Jack, but as long as he's been around, I still don't consider him to be "one of the best".

[American_Idiot]

has it occurred to you that the reason you seem to be less able to spot Heath Ledger in movies than Jack is that Nicholson is simply more famous/recognisable than him? Acting ability has little to do with that fact, and please, stop implying that Heath Ledger is a Better actor than Jack Nicholson, you're embarrassing yourself

Funny. I don't feel embarrassed.

Ok, let me reword it then, to save myself the embarrassment. Ledger, thus far, has shown more diversity in his chosen roles than has Nicholson.

If the two were to do improv before a live studio audience where they were required to act out several different character types, possibly from various countries, I feel Ledger would outshine Jack.

[PretentiousMan]

Isn't it possible to REALLY like Nicholson as an actor but not like his Joker?

[NoName86]

That's the thing here at SHH, it is all black and white...no grey is allowed.

[kenellard]

Funny. I don't feel embarrassed.

Ok, let me reword it then, to save myself the embarrassment. Ledger, thus far, has shown more diversity in his chosen roles than has Nicholson.

If the two were to do improv before a live studio audience where they were required to act out several different character types, possibly from various countries, I feel Ledger would outshine Jack.

I find it hugely coincidental that you and a few others were completely blown away by Ledger's immense talent and range months ago, yet strangely not one person (on these boards at least) was on the Heath ledger bandwagon until he was actually cast, and now he's sure to be one of the great actors of our time? Also, it's quite coincidental that he's actually a better actor than one of our greatest living actors, who just so happened to play the Joker too. It's crazy!

seriously, not once have I ever called someone a Nolanite on the hype, but you're making it hard for me tonight man

[ETHAR-N]

yep^^

[sasquatchs]

No-one thought of Ledger because most suggestions were of people with long faces, or had done nutjob roles before. He's definitely a great actor, but I have no idea what he's going to do with Joker so I can't say if he's a good choice or not yet.

[itsthebatman]

No-one thought of Ledger because most suggestions were of people with long faces, or had done nutjob roles before. He's definitely a great actor, but I have no idea what he's going to do with Joker so I can't say if he's a good choice or not yet.
Man, you say what I feel.

[Mr. Wooden Alligator]

In terms of appearance, I like the look of the Joker from season 1 of The Batman, minus the bare feet. Give the guy some shoes and he's pretty cool. :up:

[American_Idiot]

I find it hugely coincidental that you and a few others were completely blown away by Ledger's immense talent and range months ago, yet strangely not one person (on these boards at least) was on the Heath ledger bandwagon until he was actually cast, and now he's sure to be one of the great actors of our time? Also, it's quite coincidental that he's actually a better actor than one of our greatest living actors, who just so happened to play the Joker too. It's crazy!

seriously, not once have I ever called someone a Nolanite on the hype, but you're making it hard for me tonight man

Now you're just making assumptions. I was blown away by Ledger's performances long before he was cast as the Joker. I'll admit, I never pictured him as the Joker, but when he was cast, I remember thinking "Wow! Yeah, I can definitely see it!".

Now, is it coincidental that I thought he was an amazing actor before he was chosen, and even though I didn't think of Ledger myself back when we all had our different ideas of who would make a perfect Joker, I still strongly support the the decision of him being cast? No. Sorry. But no.

Of course people are going to be comparing Ledger to Nicholson. This happens everytime someone else takes over a role. There is nothing coincidental about it. People have compared each new actor portraying James Bond to the Bond actors of the past, even before seeing the films. Kilmer was compared to Keaton, Bale to Keaton, Routh to Reeves, the list goes on.

[kenellard]

No-one thought of Ledger because most suggestions were of people with long faces, or had done nutjob roles before. He's definitely a great actor, but I have no idea what he's going to do with Joker so I can't say if he's a good choice or not yet.

I won't argue with that, but the point I'm trying to make is if Ledger is some god of the silver screen as american_idiot is suggesting here, then surely someone would've at least mentioned his name? I actually have no problem specifically with Heath as the Joker, I don't like the new look, but that's not really anything to do with him. My problem is people who are so eager to sing the praises of this new franchise are not only decrying the old one (which has been going on for a few years now) but now, in a breathtaking effort of stupidity we have someone saying that a man of Nicholson's presence, skill and proven talent is no match for Heath Ledger? Find me one person who said that before this casting and I will eat my own face

[American_Idiot]

I first encountered this argument outside of this forum. People who think the Joker killed Bruce's parents telling me that "NOBODY can play a better Joker than Jack Nicholson".

My argument: "Yes, SOMEBODY can, and they just may, based on what I've seen this particular actor do thus far!"

[kenellard]

I first encountered this argument outside of this forum. People who think the Joker killed Bruce's parents telling me that "NOBODY can play a better Joker than Jack Nicholson".

My argument: "Yes, SOMEBODY can, and they just may, based on what I've seen this particular actor do thus far!"

but you think Ledger is a better actor in general too?

[itsthebatman]

I first encountered this argument outside of this forum. People who think the Joker killed Bruce's parents telling me that "NOBODY can play a better Joker than Jack Nicholson".

My argument: "Yes, SOMEBODY can, and they just may, based on what I've seen this particular actor do thus far!"
Well, yes, but you're also saying Ledger is a better actor than Nicholson overall. Which, until he has a body of work behind him comparable to Nicholsons, isn't quite true. Mind you, I'd pay good money to see kennelard eat his own face, you don't see that every day.

[kenellard]

I'm pretty confident I won't be chowing down any time soon

[itsthebatman]

I'm pretty confident I won't be chowing down any time soon
If it happens, I want to see it live. I'll even supply the barbecue sauce.

[kenellard]

If it happens, I want to see it live. I'll even supply the barbecue sauce.

I'm in talks with Mtv at the moment, hopefully a 1 hour special, symultanious live webcast, podcast, the lot

[itsthebatman]

I'm in talks with Mtv at the moment, hopefully a 1 hour special, symultanious live webcast, podcast, the lot
Let us know how the negotiations work out. Pimp my Ride, followed by Cribs, followed by Kennelard Eats His Face. Sweet.

[American_Idiot]

but you think Ledger is a better actor in general too?

I do. It's the same as making a claim such as Kobe Bryant is a better ball player than Larry Byrd:

"But Larry Byrd is a seasoned vet! He's won "x" amount of games and his name is already in sports history books! How dare you!!"

"I just think Kobe is better based on what he's done so far....that's it."

I also happen to think Johnny Depp is a better actor than Al Pacino. Now, if Depp is ever cast as Scarface, don't tell me I'm only saying Depp is a better actor for "bandwagon" sake. I would've said the same thing about Ledger, prior to the announcement that he is the Joker.

[Keyser Soze]

But here's the thing, American Idiot. You're not comparing Jack Nicholson's Joker to the potential of Heath Ledger's Joker. You're trying to say that Ledger is a superior actor overall. And I'm not trying to sell Ledger short here (unlike you, apparently, I don't have to undercut and belittle "the other guy" in order to support "my guy") but with the number of classic films and the years of experience Jack Nicholson has over Ledger - at this early stage in his career at least - there's just no comparison.

Now, rather than trying to tell you that Jack Nicholson is indeed a skilled actor who can show diversity as well as power in his performances, I'll show you:

The King of Marvin Gardens:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOi_jV_opCg

Five Easy Pieces:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wtfNE4z6a8&mode=related&search=

The Shining:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlVYDFczOfk

About Schmidt:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfcjyXmSqOs

One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syPZZxxFCe0

Chinatown:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMU_Wg3mZkE&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dalleyRIjY

[itsthebatman]

He should just watch the films. Classics all. Man, I love Chinatown.

[ToddIsDead]

Chinatown will always be the best detective film ever in my mind.

[Keyser Soze]

He should just watch the films. Classics all. Man, I love Chinatown.

Agreed. Absolutely. Like I said, Ledger can't even be considered to be on Jack Nicholson's level until he's been in films on the level Jack as been, performed in scenes that are still remembered and talked about decades later.

Check out the scenes I posted above. Even if you've seen them already, they're always good to watch. :cwink:

[American_Idiot]

Find me one person who said that before this casting and I will eat my own face

Before Ledger was cast, why would anyone come on here and say "Heath Ledger is a better actor than Jack Nicholson"? It wouldn't make sense. But if we were sitting down having a conversation about the most talented actors and actresses of our time, I guarantee I would've brought up Heath Ledger's name. Had you brought up Nicholson, I probably would've replied with something like "He's good. I like most of the movies he's in. But I can't help but feel he's a bit over-rated.".

Nobody has compared Uma Thurman to Rachel McAdams yet either. But if McAdams is ever cast as Poison Ivy, I guarantee people will be comparing the two. Will you look back and say "Funny, no one ever said McAdams was a better actress than Thurman prior to her being cast as Poison Ivy."

[itsthebatman]

Agreed. Absolutely. Like I said, Ledger can't even be considered to be on Jack Nicholson's level until he's been in films on the level Jack as been, performed in scenes that are still remembered and talked about decades later.

Check out the scenes I posted above. Even if you've seen them already, they're always good to watch. :cwink:
Will do. Off to the Land of Nod now.

[Keyser Soze]

Before Ledger was cast, why would anyone come on here and say "Heath Ledger is a better actor than Jack Nicholson"? It wouldn't make sense. But if we were sitting down having a conversation about the most talented actors and actresses of our time, I guarantee I would've brought up Heath Ledger's name. Had you brought up Nicholson, I probably would've replied with something like "He's good. I like most of the movies he's in. But I can't help but feel he's a bit over-rated.".

Nobody has compared Uma Thurman to Rachel McAdams yet either. But if McAdams is ever cast as Poison Ivy, I guarantee people will be comparing the two. Will you look back and say "Funny, no one ever said McAdams was a better actress than Thurman prior to her being cast as Poison Ivy."

Because she's not. :cwink:

But that's another argument for another day...

[American_Idiot]

(unlike you, apparently, I don't have to undercut and belittle "the other guy" in order to support "my guy")

I don't think I am belittling Nicholson. I simply think Ledger is a more gifted actor, regardless of how many movies he has under his belt. It's like the basketball analogy I made earlier. Shaq is a basketball icon, loved by many, with many many wins attached to his name, however, it's fair for people to think someone who hasn't been playing as long, such as LeBron James, is actually a more gifted ball player. It's not belittling to Shaq, nor am I belittling Jack.

[Keyser Soze]

I don't think I am belittling Nicholson. I simply think Ledger is a more gifted actor, regardless of how many movies he has under his belt. It's like the basketball analogy I made earlier. Shaq is a basketball icon, loved by many, with many many wins attached to his name, however, it's fair for people to think someone who hasn't been playing as long, such as LeBron James, is actually a more gifted ball player. It's not belittling to Shaq, nor am I belittling Jack.

Well watch the clips, and find clips of Heath Ledger's films that can match them.

[hame4479]

But here's the thing, American Idiot. You're not comparing Jack Nicholson's Joker to the potential of Heath Ledger's Joker. You're trying to say that Ledger is a superior actor overall. And I'm not trying to sell Ledger short here (unlike you, apparently, I don't have to undercut and belittle "the other guy" in order to support "my guy") but with the number of classic films and the years of experience Jack Nicholson has over Ledger - at this early stage in his career at least - there's just no comparison.

Now, rather than trying to tell you that Jack Nicholson is indeed a skilled actor who can show diversity as well as power in his performances, I'll show you:

The King of Marvin Gardens:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOi_jV_opCg

Five Easy Pieces:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wtfNE4z6a8&mode=related&search=

The Shining:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlVYDFczOfk

About Schmidt:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfcjyXmSqOs

One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syPZZxxFCe0

Chinatown:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMU_Wg3mZkE&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dalleyRIjY

you forgot As Good as It Gets. he did win an oscar for that movie after all.

[hame4479]

Well watch the clips, and find clips of Heath Ledger's films that can match them.


but his other roles matter not in this argument. the only one that matters is his portrayal as the joker compared to heaths. Personally after all is said and done i think people are gonna luv it. Ye have faith in Christopher.

[Keyser Soze]

but his other roles matter not in this argument. the only one that matters is his portrayal as the joker compared to heaths. Personally after all is said and done i think people are gonna luv it. Ye have faith in Christopher.

But that's the thing, hame. I myself already acknowledged that ledger has all the tools and resources to surpass Jack's Joker. But American Idiot (and TempleFugit too) have taken the argument beyond just The Joker, and have been trying to argue that Heath Ledger is a superior actor to Jack Nicholson overall. Hence my counter-argument.

[American_Idiot]

Well watch the clips, and find clips of Heath Ledger's films that can match them.

Edit: I went ahead and edited this after reading your above response. This argument is over with already.

Heath has not been around nearly as long as Nicholson, but I feel that he has already proven through the diversity of his chosen roles, to be a better actor than Jack. I don't dislike Jack; in fact, I love most of the movies he's in, and he seems like an amazing guy in person as well. I just feel that Heath has the same potential Johnny Depp has, which says a lot in itself. They are both quote unquote "chameleons", and that to me is the biggest factor I look at when discussing the best actors and actresses.

Jack was fine as the Joker. I do feel Ledger has what it takes to do it better though. That's it. Done.

[3 Dev Adam]

I think we already gathered data enough to be 100% sure that Ledger's Joker won't work. Check this simulation I just found:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oxRv0xwfV8

[Killing Joke926]

I think we already gathered data enough to be 100% sure that Ledger's Joker won't work. Check this simulation I just found:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oxRv0xwfV8

Now I can say I'm not much of a fan of the new look either, but I'm sure as hell it won't be as bad as that. That Joker's a fruit.

[Castlewood]

Yeah, I believe Ledger is the better actor... by far, actually.

Nicholson has been in MORE movies, has won an Oscar, and he's been around for 30 years.

Ledger, however, has been in 10 movies, was nominated for the Oscar but never won, and he's been around since 1998 when he came to America for 10 Things I Hate About you.

BUT... just because of these stats... why does that mean Nicholson is far superior... just because he's been around LONGER? Why does time and age determine a person's talent?

People argue that Kelly Clarkson is a superior singer to Whitney Houston, and Kelly Clarkson has been around since 2001. Is that unfair, since Whitney's been around longer?

Who's the better actor: Christian Bale, or Adam West? Adam West has been around since the 60's, so SURELY he's the better actor, right? According to your logic, yes.

I'm not going to lie... Jack Nicholson is a good actor. But everything I see him in SCREAMS "Jack Nicholson"... even the clips that you desperately posted to support your argument. I'm sorry... I see, Jack, Jack, Jack, and more Jack.

When I watch "Candy", it's light-years from the man I see in "Brokeback Mountain". It's like watching two completely DIFFERENT people.

And don't say that me and American_Idiot are simply arguing for the sake of showing our love for Ledger's Joker vs. Jack's. We could very well be disappointed with Ledger in 2008 (although unlikely). American_Idiot even mentioned Tom Hanks, someone who has nothing to do with any Batman movies.

And to let you all know that I'm not kissing Ledger's ass... I'll name other actors who I think are just like Jack Nicholson (in terms of playing the same person over and over).

- Bruce Willis. I love the man, but I always see the same guy in all his movies. In The Sixth Sense, I always see the guy from Die Hard, only without action. Accents and physical transformations are very foreign and scary for him, much like for Jack.

- Keanu Reeves. Same boyish charm and confused look on his face in every movie.

- Arnold Shwarzennegger. Self-explanatory, no?

- Vince Vaughn, Owen Wilson, Will Ferrell, Ben Stiller, Jack Black, Luke Wilson. Okay, yeah, maybe this shouldn't count, since they're comedic actors who have found a collective formula together, but they're always playing similar characters to ones they've already played... some of them just LOOK different. If you watch Old School, and then Wedding Crashers, Vince Vaughn is the same damn person. Same goes for Will Ferrell with Blades of Glory, Anchorman, Old School.... it's the same man, same jokes, just a different look and name.

Those are just some off the top of my head.

Now, Ledger is obviously ABOVE AND BEYOND more talented than these guys, wouldn't you agree? Yes, some of those guys have been around for many more years than Ledger... but you can't deny that Ledger is more talented. I just don't see Bruce Willis being comfortable enough to go outside his own comfort zone in order to play a gay cowboy, because he's not that dedicated. Ledger is. He's willing to TRANSFORM.

So, to clarify... I don't think Jack is a bad actor at all. I just think Heath is better in terms of dedication, performance, and tranformation. He impresses me more than Jack.

[Vile]

I think we already gathered data enough to be 100% sure that Ledger's Joker won't work. Check this simulation I just found:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oxRv0xwfV8


This post wins the "I'm A Fraggin' Idiot" award of '07.

Congrats, exit stage left for your slap in the face.

[3 Dev Adam]

This post wins the "I'm A Fraggin' Idiot" award of '07.

Congrats, exit stage left for your slap in the face.

Irony and humour are completely lost on you.

[Rainer7]

Great post, Temple.

[Vile]

Irony and humour are completely lost on you.



Oh no, I got what was meant.

Sadly, it doesnt change a thing. =)

[ToddIsDead]

Irony and humour are completely lost on you.

Yeah, I think it kind of went over his head there.

[The Joker]

Yeah, I believe Ledger is the better actor... by far, actually.

Wow :dry:

Your opinion and all......but wow. Though, aren't you the guy who stated that Batman Begins is the best movie you've ever seen?? :oldrazz:

[American_Idiot]

Wow :dry:

Your opinion and all......but wow. Though, aren't you the guy who stated that Batman Begins is the best movie you've ever seen?? :oldrazz:

I know a handful of people who aren't even Batman fans that consider Begins to be one of the greatest movies they've seen. I tend to agree. It's in my Top 10 anyway.

[The Joker]

I know a handful of people who aren't even Batman fans that consider Begins to be one of the greatest movies they've seen. I tend to agree. It's in my Top 10 anyway.

Top 10 I can understand.

Greatest movie they've ever seen? I find that hilarious. They need to see more movies, IMO. Seriously.

[Darkest Knight]

Temple just blew this thread up. WOW... Great post, fam.

[Darkest Knight]

Well what one likes as the best movie they've seen would be completely subjective to said person, no?

[TheBat812]

Wow :dry:

Your opinion and all......but wow. Though, aren't you the guy who stated that Batman Begins is the best movie you've ever seen?? :oldrazz:
I don't see how it's that hard to believe. To me, an outstanding actor is somebody who can transform into different roles and make you forget about his other works. Names that come to mind in that area are Christian Bale, Gary Oldman, Ian McKellen, Ian Holm, Johnny Depp, Leonardo DiCaprio. Here are some great actors who do an amazing job portraying emotions, but are always themselves: Jack Nicholson, Nicholas Cage, Bruce Willis, Robert DeNiro, etc. Heath Ledger definitely fits into the former category.

[The Joker]

I don't see how it's that hard to believe. To me, an outstanding actor is somebody who can transform into different roles and make you forget about his other works. Names that come to mind in that area are Christian Bale, Gary Oldman, Ian McKellen, Ian Holm, Johnny Depp, Leonardo DiCaprio. Here are some great actors who do an amazing job portraying emotions, but are always themselves: Jack Nicholson, Nicholas Cage, Bruce Willis, Robert DeNiro, etc. Heath Ledger definitely fits into the former category.

I disagree.

When I watch One flew over the cuckoos nest, or The Departed, or As good as it gets etc, I see diversity. Not the same character over and over.

[Keyser Soze]

Yeah, I believe Ledger is the better actor... by far, actually.

Nicholson has been in MORE movies, has won an Oscar, and he's been around for 30 years.

Ledger, however, has been in 10 movies, was nominated for the Oscar but never won, and he's been around since 1998 when he came to America for 10 Things I Hate About you.

BUT... just because of these stats... why does that mean Nicholson is far superior... just because he's been around LONGER? Why does time and age determine a person's talent?

People argue that Kelly Clarkson is a superior singer to Whitney Houston, and Kelly Clarkson has been around since 2001. Is that unfair, since Whitney's been around longer?

Who's the better actor: Christian Bale, or Adam West? Adam West has been around since the 60's, so SURELY he's the better actor, right? According to your logic, yes.

I'm not going to lie... Jack Nicholson is a good actor. But everything I see him in SCREAMS "Jack Nicholson"... even the clips that you desperately posted to support your argument. I'm sorry... I see, Jack, Jack, Jack, and more Jack.

When I watch "Candy", it's light-years from the man I see in "Brokeback Mountain". It's like watching two completely DIFFERENT people.

And don't say that me and American_Idiot are simply arguing for the sake of showing our love for Ledger's Joker vs. Jack's. We could very well be disappointed with Ledger in 2008 (although unlikely). American_Idiot even mentioned Tom Hanks, someone who has nothing to do with any Batman movies.

And to let you all know that I'm not kissing Ledger's ass... I'll name other actors who I think are just like Jack Nicholson (in terms of playing the same person over and over).

- Bruce Willis. I love the man, but I always see the same guy in all his movies. In The Sixth Sense, I always see the guy from Die Hard, only without action. Accents and physical transformations are very foreign and scary for him, much like for Jack.

- Keanu Reeves. Same boyish charm and confused look on his face in every movie.

- Arnold Shwarzennegger. Self-explanatory, no?

- Vince Vaughn, Owen Wilson, Will Ferrell, Ben Stiller, Jack Black, Luke Wilson. Okay, yeah, maybe this shouldn't count, since they're comedic actors who have found a collective formula together, but they're always playing similar characters to ones they've already played... some of them just LOOK different. If you watch Old School, and then Wedding Crashers, Vince Vaughn is the same damn person. Same goes for Will Ferrell with Blades of Glory, Anchorman, Old School.... it's the same man, same jokes, just a different look and name.

Those are just some off the top of my head.

Now, Ledger is obviously ABOVE AND BEYOND more talented than these guys, wouldn't you agree? Yes, some of those guys have been around for many more years than Ledger... but you can't deny that Ledger is more talented. I just don't see Bruce Willis being comfortable enough to go outside his own comfort zone in order to play a gay cowboy, because he's not that dedicated. Ledger is. He's willing to TRANSFORM.

So, to clarify... I don't think Jack is a bad actor at all. I just think Heath is better in terms of dedication, performance, and tranformation. He impresses me more than Jack.

Well, really, the argument is going to get us nowhere, as we're both just basically going back and forth with a more verbose version of "I think/you think".

I can go into in-depth discussion of the differences in the (equally valid) acting styles of Heath Ledger and Jack Nicholson. You say "I only see Jack! I only see Jack!"

I can take the time to hunt through Youtube and find a collection of classic Jack scenes. You say "I only see Jack! I only see Jack!"

If my argument isn't going to even be specifically commented on, or even the evidence I provided specifically addressed, the only way I can go is repeating myself, and hoping its acknowledged this time, but its 2:30am over here, and I'm not up for doing that.

So let's just leave it at "I think Jack Nicholson is better" and "You think Heath Ledger is better", and get back on-topic to discussing The Joker.

[Keyser Soze]

Top 10 I can understand.

Greatest movie they've ever seen? I find that hilarious. They need to see more movies, IMO. Seriously.

For the record, "Batman Begins" is currently number 10 on my top ten. And though my rankings are constantly-changing, its always floating around my top 20.

And I've seen a lot of movies...

[Pliny]

Okay, all that fun stuff aside, has anybody noticed the change in the jokers "site", the ibelieveinharveydenttoo site? it changed to 404 error, but if you select all there's a bunch of haha's, and if you delete those and take the leftover letters, the message reads "see you in december". any thoughts? i mean, the movies not coming out then, right? i've always figured it was summer '08 release. maybe this means we'll see a teaser with him or something then?

[Keyser Soze]

Okay, all that fun stuff aside, has anybody noticed the change in the jokers "site", the ibelieveinharveydenttoo site? it changed to 404 error, but if you select all there's a bunch of haha's, and if you delete those and take the leftover letters, the message reads "see you in december". any thoughts? i mean, the movies not coming out then, right? i've always figured it was summer '08 release. maybe this means we'll see a teaser with him or something then?

Welcome to the Hype Pliny!

Yeah, we picked up on this a while back. There has been a lot of discussion and speculation on what this message could mean. Some think it's a teaser trailer, but others argue that we're more likely to see a teaser attached to one of Warner Bros' big summer movies, like "Harry Potter".

Other speculation has included the possibility of December being the unveiling of a big new website, or more Joker pictures/video footage. Some even think "see you in december" is an anagram for something else.

Look around the forum a bit. I'm sure you'll find some interesting discussion on the subject!

[3 Dev Adam]

More CGI Jokerisms

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOf_awnyW-A

[strikezone89]

I think we already gathered data enough to be 100% sure that Ledger's Joker won't work. Check this simulation I just found:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oxRv0xwfV8

omg
lol
where the hell did u find that.

[3 Dev Adam]

omg
lol
where the hell did u find that.

YouTube.

[Rezzo]

I think we already gathered data enough to be 100% sure that Ledger's Joker won't work. Check this simulation I just found:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oxRv0xwfV8

HAHA like that really proves anything

[deathfromabove]

hahahaha. if you thik this proves anything you have discredited your judgement.

meaning if you think that looks even remotely real or accurate your judgement is beyond poor.

[Schlosser85]

Batman Begins is among my favorite movies. That doesn't mean I think it's one of the greatest movies ever made, it's just one of my favorite ones.

[Johnichi Chiba]

new joker pic http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/4301/darkknightcarouselhf6.jpg

[Darkest Knight]

What's that from? That is the inner workings of the Chicago post office which they used for the bank scenes.

[hannya]

FAKE. The perspective's all over the place.

[Crook]

I'm sure USA Today would release a fake pic... :dry:

[hannya]

I'm sure USA Today would release a fake pic... :dry:

My apologies. Completely not fake. Put me in the stocks and pelt me with mackerel.
I feel stupid for being wrong but delighted the pic's genuine!

[Spidro Man]

new joker pic http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/4301/darkknightcarouselhf6.jpg
NICE FIND...when did this come about?

[Sun_Down]

As small and blurry as that is, it still looks very cool.

[FatA$$]

new joker pic http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/4301/darkknightcarouselhf6.jpg
i think he may turn out to look great after all. i was sceptical when the first pic was released

[Sun_Down]

i think he may turn out to look great after all. i was sceptical when the first pic was released

Me too, but I think the huge, exaggerated smile could look fantastic.

[hannya]

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/2809/jokercloseuplb8.jpg

Looks like flesh-coloured make-up around white.
Doesn't explain the eyes, though. In the mask picture, the skin around his eyes is flesh-coloured. So this means he removes flesh tone make-up to reveal.... MORE make-up?
:huh:

[webhead731]

LMAO That's just crap. Give us an awesome close up of the body and head.
What's he doing in that pic anyway?

But, I must say, what I've seen so far is just kickass. I'm really looking foward to seeing Joker in this and I hope they do it right.:):up:

[LostSon88]

He's prolly looking the bank manager right in the face...but they're filming it in that paticular fashion to get a really good close up of his grotesque appearance.

[newwaveboy87]

LMAO That's just crap. Give us an awesome close up of the body and head.
What's he doing in that pic anyway?

But, I must say, what I've seen so far is just kickass. I'm really looking foward to seeing Joker in this and I hope they do it right.:):up:
they're going the Spider-Man 3 route in showing Joker. you know what i mean, Venom was glimpsed briefly in the final trailers/tv spots, and the first official pic of "Venom" was of Topher turning into Venom.

we've gotten pics of Joker, but we haven't actually seen what the Joker REALLY looks like.

showing us, but not showing us. brings up the excitement. :up:

[webhead731]

lol Bank manager? So he's robbing a bank?

[Compi716]

Awesome picture. There, Joker actually looks GOOD.

[Ryan227]

lol Bank manager? So he's robbing a bank?

Are you serious? :huh: Did you read the sides? That'll answer all of your questions.

[LostSon88]

Yep...and somehow, Joker's clown mask is removed and Joker comments to the bank manager, "Its not polite to stare."

:joker:

[webhead731]

they're going the Spider-Man 3 route in showing Joker. you know what i mean, Venom was glimpsed briefly in the final trailers/tv spots, and the first official pic of "Venom" was of Topher turning into Venom.

we've gotten pics of Joker, but we haven't actually seen what the Joker REALLY looks like.

showing us, but not showing us. brings up the excitement. :up:

Oh great another year of the Venom hypeness only with a friggin' clown!:cmad:





I suppose you're right though.
But with Venom, didn't they just show the Eddie with the Symbiote poster and the brief-ass shot of Venom in the Comic-Con trailer? We didn't get anything official until March or so. They kept him hidden until that late. This film doesn't even come out until next year and now we're already getting pics of Joker like this.

So what do you mean we haven't seen what he really looks like? What else could they do to him for his "real" look?:confused:

[Ryan227]

Oh great another year of the Venom hypeness only with a friggin' clown!:cmad:





I suppose you're right though.
But with Venom, didn't they just show the Eddie with the Symbiote poster and the brief-ass shot of Venom in the Comic-Con trailer? We didn't get anything official until March or so. They kept him hidden until that late. This film doesn't even come out until next year and now we're already getting pics of Joker like this.

So what do you mean we haven't seen what he really looks like? What else could they do to him for his "real" look?:confused:

They mean a full on shot that isn't blurry or anything.

[webhead731]

Yep...and somehow, Joker's clown mask is removed and Joker comments to the bank manager, "Its not polite to stare."

:joker:

I thought he just wore makeup?

[Ryan227]

I thought he just wore makeup?

Dude you really need to read the sides........

[webhead731]

They mean a full on shot that isn't blurry or anything.

Well I see ALOT of people around here complaining about how they don't like the face shot of him. I don't have a problem with it, but alot do. I mean we can see he's wearing purple in these other shots, and we've seen his face...so how do we not know how he will look?:confused:

[Ryan227]

Well I see ALOT of people around here complaining about how they don't like the face shot of him. I don't have a problem with it, but alot do. I mean we can see he's wearing purple in these other shots, and we've seen his face...so how do we not know how he will look?:confused:

I mean like a publicity shot or a screen shot where it is not blurry or anything.

[LostSon88]

Joker puts on flesh toned makeup to hide his true appearance (even to his gang of thugs) by means of throwing everyone off...but somehow, the fleshcolored makeup comes off (either it just sweats off or Joker removes it himself) when his clown mask is removed and his real face is revealed to the horror of the bank manager.

[Doc Holliday]

Joker puts on flesh toned makeup to hide his true appearance (even to his gang of thugs) by means of throwing everyone off...but somehow, the fleshcolored makeup comes off (either it just sweats off or Joker removes it himself) when his clown mask is removed and his real face is revealed to the horror of the bank manager.

You think. There is no proof yet. Just speculation.

[LostSon88]

Well...yeah. I know none of this is confirmed, i'm just goin' by what we've been told. :dry:

[webhead731]

Okay that makes sense. Only thing that doesn't make sense to me is this "clown mask". Sorry lol. Are you saying his actual face is just mask-like?

[Ryan227]

Okay that makes sense. Only thing that doesn't make sense to me is this "clown mask". Sorry lol. Are you saying his actual face is just mask-like?

No Joker wears a clown mask with his "goons" but takes it off right before he shoots the bank manager.

Edit: Joker is Joker the whole time

[webhead731]

Got it. Thanks.:up:

[Ryan227]

Got it. Thanks.:up:

Good deal, no problem you're welcome! :woot:

[LostSon88]

http://i.usatoday.net/life/_photos/2007/05/29/dark-knight1x-large.jpg



^ Joker, wearing clown mask, wearing flesh colored make-up