The man who laughs: The Joker thread

[mad-sci]

If you seen it on TV, I would imagine the Joker in TDK to be like Christopher Eccleston's Doctor (in Doctor Who).

One of the criteria of the character is an 'alien' attitude (pardon the pun), and a costume (which changes with each actor playing the Doctor). For Eccleston however, the 'costume' was very simple, down to earth and 'realistic/human' (i.e. a worn out leather jacket, sweatshirt and black jeans). Eccleston wanted that costume because he wanted to express the character by acting ALONE (he looks almost normal, but his behaviour is anything but).

I got a feeling that's what Nolan's version of the Joker will be. Someone who looks almost normal (apart from the face), but acts unexpectedly.

[Van Petrol]

If you seen it on TV, I would imagine the Joker in TDK to be like Christopher Eccleston's Doctor (in Doctor Who).

One of the criteria of the character is an 'alien' attitude (pardon the pun), and a costume (which changes with each actor playing the Doctor). For Eccleston however, the 'costume' was very simple, down to earth and 'realistic/human' (i.e. a worn out leather jacket, sweatshirt and black jeans). Eccleston wanted that costume because he wanted to express the character by acting ALONE (he looks almost normal, but his behaviour is anything but).

I got a feeling that's what Nolan's version of the Joker will be. Someone who looks almost normal (apart from the face), but acts unexpectedly.

I agree with that diagnosis.

[Miranda Fox]

If you seen it on TV, I would imagine the Joker in TDK to be like Christopher Eccleston's Doctor (in Doctor Who).

One of the criteria of the character is an 'alien' attitude (pardon the pun), and a costume (which changes with each actor playing the Doctor). For Eccleston however, the 'costume' was very simple, down to earth and 'realistic/human' (i.e. a worn out leather jacket, sweatshirt and black jeans). Eccleston wanted that costume because he wanted to express the character by acting ALONE (he looks almost normal, but his behaviour is anything but).

I got a feeling that's what Nolan's version of the Joker will be. Someone who looks almost normal (apart from the face), but acts unexpectedly.

:up:

However, that model is not really what I want. :/

[mad-sci]

There's one other option no-one's thinking of.

Nolan himself (or Crowley) could have 'designed' this model, by using an existing action figure and dressing it accordingly (Get that image of a grown man playing with dolls out your head RIGHT NOW!!! :p )

Fact is, he's done it before. When making the Batmobile, Nolan made an original plasticine model of what it should look like (which he admitted looked more like a croissant! - on the BB DVD interviews). It's entirely possible this figure is a 'sketch' of what the Joker in TDK will look like.

[Miranda Fox]

It's not real:

http://www.xanga.com/Clark_Kent_Customs

Thanks to jestudious at BOF for pointing that out. :)

[itsthebatman]

It's not real:

http://www.xanga.com/Clark_Kent_Customs

Thanks to jestudious at BOF for pointing that out. :)

Miranda FTW!

Now, just waiting for Saint to (metaphorically) kick my teeth in.

[odiin]

Did anybody seriously think that this WAS genuine? Um, guys.... just LOOK at the thing. Case closed.

[Miranda Fox]

Did anybody seriously think that this WAS genuine? Um, guys.... just LOOK at the thing. Case closed.

Actually, if he'd been smiling, I probably would've thought it was.

[odiin]

Well not only does it look absolutely nothing like heath ledger (even for an action figure) but it's CLEARY a very, very amateur paint job.

Plus... d00dz. We're not going to see what Heath is going to look like as Joker this early in the game. You know that. Come on now.

[Miranda Fox]

Well not only does it look absolutely nothing like heath ledger (even for an action figure) but it's CLEARY a very, very amateur paint job.

Plus... d00dz. We're not going to see what Heath is going to look like as Joker this early in the game. You know that. Come on now.

Hi, I'm Gullible and I'm a Naive Dumbass. :woot:

Well, it is true that they do start working on action figures very early, hence why I wouldn't want to dismiss it out of hand.

[Anjow1060]

Well not only does it look absolutely nothing like heath ledger (even for an action figure) but it's CLEARY a very, very amateur paint job.

Plus... d00dz. We're not going to see what Heath is going to look like as Joker this early in the game. You know that. Come on now.

You never know. It def. looked amateur but as another fellow BOFer pointed out, Nolan has made models of things he wants in his film in the past. Case in point - The tumbler. Granted its a car, but theres no difference between models of planes made into a car and other action figures peiced together to make a toy. Regardless it has been debunked and we're sent back to boredom.

BTW......You never know when we're gonna get a look at Ledger as the Joker. It's one thing to not see scarecrow in the mask because he's crane for 85% of his screentime. But Joker will be Joker 100% the whole time, unless we get a look at Ledger in TDK from like an offical pic and find out it has part of his backstory in it. Otherwise, he'll be Joker-ized one way or another.

Not to mention......pictures of the Joker released would get hype for the movie going like a mofo. Joker >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Scarecrow + Ras

[Miranda Fox]

You never know. It def. looked amateur but as another fellow BOFer pointed out, Nolan has made models of things he wants in his film in the past. Case in point - The tumbler. Granted its a car, but theres no difference between models of planes made into a car and other action figures peiced together to make a toy. Regardless it has been debunked and we're sent back to boredom.

BTW......You never know when we're gonna get a look at Ledger as the Joker. It's one thing to not see scarecrow in the mask because he's crane for 85% of his screentime. But Joker will be Joker 100% the whole time, unless we get a look at Ledger in TDK from like an offical pic and find out it has part of his backstory in it. Otherwise, he'll be Joker-ized one way or another.

Not to mention......pictures of the Joker released would get hype for the movie going like a mofo. Joker >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Scarecrow + Ras

Mad-sci made a great suggestion that releasing a Joker pic at Comic Con this year would be a freakin' masterstroke. I second this wholeheartedly.

What say you, Anjow? :)

[odiin]

So anybody can post random pictures of anything and claim it's a model from Chris Nolan?

All it takes is a little common sense.

[Miranda Fox]

So anybody can post random pictures of anything and claim it's a model from Chris Nolan?

All it takes is a little common sense.

Fair enough. :up:

[odiin]

'sides, Anjow's post has reminded me just how close we are to actually seeing the Joker. Not much longer to wait. That is unless they do something weird so we don't get to see Ledger in full Joker get-up until their done filming and decide to officially release screens. That would suck royally :(

[Ryan227]

'sides, Anjow's post has reminded me just how close we are to actually seeing the Joker. Not much longer to wait. That is unless they do something weird so we don't get to see Ledger in full Joker get-up until their done filming and decide to officially release screens. That would suck royally :(

Joker's too huge to wait that long to release screens of him. But IF they did that would suck royally as you said.

[Keyser Sushi]

Speaking of Joker's look:

http://walford.smugmug.com/photos/32090031-M.jpg

Something like that would be fine by me. It's modern but still keeping enough 'classic-Jokerness' so as not to be unfaithful.

What say you? I know Crooklyn is dying to disagree. :oldrazz:

If I'm not much mistaken, that was somebody's idea of what Christopher Eccleston might look like as the Joker. Back in the Bettany vs. Hulme days, the Eccleston fans used to throw that one into the middle of arguments just to jack with the rest of us. ;)

It was a great manip, but it wasn't Bettany. :D

[Cronus]

i totally agree with Miranda Fox!!! a fusion with classic and modern.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i169/vizor64/32090031-M.jpg

[Miranda Fox]

If I'm not much mistaken, that was somebody's idea of what Christopher Eccleston might look like as the Joker. Back in the Bettany vs. Hulme days, the Eccleston fans used to throw that one into the middle of arguments just to jack with the rest of us. ;)

It was a great manip, but it wasn't Bettany. :D

I've seen a Bettany one that might've been done by the same dude - that was pretty good too, except for the dreaded cut smile...

Heh, the Eccleston fans would've been my kind of people. :up: :woot:

[ghost_x]

Saw this on BOF.....


Source: http://p088.ezboard.com/Joker-Model/fbatmanonfilm81780frm18.showMessage?topicID=1820.t opic

It's got that crime noir feel to it, something that I see Nolan emphasising. It's not however how the Joker should look, Joker needs to stand out from the detectives of Gotham, not look like he could join them

[uchiha_itachi]

check this guy out http://www.gothampublicworks.com/images/gallery/joker-lair.jpg

[Muziko]

check this guy out http://www.gothampublicworks.com/images/gallery/joker-lair.jpg


Now THAT'S a Joker face I can live with. (Don't like that suit for TDK though... looks too much like the Batman:TAS Joker suit)

[david icke]

surprised no-one's posted this up yet but BOF has posted a link to a Heath Ledger interview where he briefly talks about his Joker 'practice', I'd post a link directly to the interview but my computers very slow today and it wasnt connecting the 2nd time. He must either wait till his wife is out or drive her mad.:yay:

http://www.Batman-on-film.com/batmovienews.html

Pretty cool how the forums in Joker colours for April fool's day or is my computer really f***ed up?

[Two-Face]

I wanna hear Ledger's Joker laugh!! :mad:

[uchiha_itachi]

you wanna what a who now?

[Two-Face]

I wanna hear Ledger Joker laugh.

[Ryan227]

surprised no-one's posted this up yet but BOF has posted a link to a Heath Ledger interview where he briefly talks about his Joker 'practice', I'd post a link directly to the interview but my computers very slow today and it wasnt connecting the 2nd time. He must either wait till his wife is out or drive her mad.:yay:

http://www.Batman-on-film.com/batmovienews.html

Pretty cool how the forums in Joker colours for April fool's day or is my computer really f***ed up?

I was thinking the same thing till I read your post so now I feel better!

[itsthebatman]

surprised no-one's posted this up yet but BOF has posted a link to a Heath Ledger interview where he briefly talks about his Joker 'practice', I'd post a link directly to the interview but my computers very slow today and it wasnt connecting the 2nd time. He must either wait till his wife is out or drive her mad.:yay:

http://www.Batman-on-film.com/batmovienews.html

Pretty cool how the forums in Joker colours for April fool's day or is my computer really f***ed up?

Good link. Like that he's been practising the laugh!

[Miranda Fox]

Good link. Like that he's been practising the laugh!

Indeed. :up:

I was surprised about not having done a real make-up run yet, though. But still, sounds like he's been preparing for the start filming.

EDIT: also, the bouncing around like a lunatic is also another indicator that the Joker will NOT be toned down for this film. I know it won't make that kind of complaint die but at least the next time that piece of TRUFAX comes up, I'll have some ammo to fire with.

Yup, I like to gloat when I'm right. :P

[itsthebatman]

Miranda, you might now. Why was Crooklyn banned? PM me if needs be.

[Miranda Fox]

Miranda, you might now. Why was Crooklyn banned? PM me if needs be.

Wait, what? Crooklyn was banned?

[Ryan227]

Miranda, you might now. Why was Crooklyn banned? PM me if needs be.

When did this happen?!?!? :huh:

[Miranda Fox]

When did this happen?!?!? :huh:

I hope this is a ****ing April Fools. Who the hell else am I going to exchange me witty banter with now? :csad:

[Hunter Rider]

Crooklyn was banned for posting a link to child porn

[Ryan227]

Crooklyn was banned for posting a link to child porn

:wow::wow::wow::wow::wow::wow::wow:

Umm Miranda I'll try the witty banter thing cuz I don't think he's coming back.....

[david icke]

also, the bouncing around like a lunatic is also another indicator that the Joker will NOT be toned down for this film.

Y'know , im not worried at all about Ledger playing a more 'active' Joker as opposed to the sinister guy in the shadows some folk are expecting or hoping for(id like a bit of both these styles). As soon as HL was announced i looked up movies he'd done and went out and bought the skateboarding movie 'Z town and the dogtown boys'(think this is the title, i lent it out) and he was frickin hilarious, as well as being a very capable physical performer he was part of an group and remained the focus(as he seemed the most interesting actor, i was always gettin impatient until he showed up again, not just cause of the Joker thing but cause he was entertainin'). I know he sounds a lot like Val Kilmer doin his Morrison but HL had his own thing going on as well. Id like to see a Joker that hangs back in the shadows but can explode out into mayhem as well, not joking around comedy haha , but scary , gettin in people's faces s***.

[Miranda Fox]

Y'know , im not worried at all about Ledger playing a more 'active' Joker as opposed to the sinister guy in the shadows some folk are expecting or hoping for(id like a bit of both these styles). As soon as HL was announced i looked up movies he'd done and went out and bought the skateboarding movie 'Z town and the dogtown boys'(think this is the title, i lent it out) and he was frickin hilarious, as well as being a very capable physical performer he was part of an group and remained the focus(as he seemed the most interesting actor, i was always gettin impatient until he showed up again, not just cause of the Joker thing but cause he was entertainin'). I know he sounds a lot like Val Kilmer doin his Morrison but HL had his own thing going on as well. Id like to see a Joker that hangs back in the shadows but can explode out into mayhem as well, not joking around comedy haha , but scary , gettin in people's faces s***.

I dunno if I've said it yet, but I think your username pwns!

Anyway, yeah, a mixture of both would be IMO, absolutely perfect. :up:

[david icke]

I dunno if I've said it yet, but I think your username pwns!


Thank you. He was a good goalkeeper. Wonder what he's up to these days?:cwink:

[Miranda Fox]

Thank you. He was a good goalkeeper. Wonder what he's up to these days?:cwink:

LOL, god only knows. But aliens are surely involved. Good 'ole David. :up:

[Anjow1060]

I was just watching "10 things I hate about you" (say what u want, it's one of the better teeny bopper movies) and this diologue came up:
LEDGER
You’re not afraid of me, are you?

STILES
Afraid of you? Why would I be afraid of you?

LEDGER
Well, most people are.

STILES
Well, I’m not.

LEDGER
Well, maybe you’re not afraid of me. But I’m
sure you’ve thought about me naked, huh?

He gives her a knowing wink.

and then....

LEDGER
What is it with this chick, she have beer flavored nipples?


And all I can think of is.....boy thats a great watered down Joker. This dude is perfect. I don't need to hear his laugh before TDK with one liners like that.
But of course, I wouldn't mind either.

[Miranda Fox]

I was just watching "10 things I hate about you" (say what u want, it's one of the better teeny bopper movies) and this diologue came up:
LEDGER
You’re not afraid of me, are you?

STILES
Afraid of you? Why would I be afraid of you?

LEDGER
Well, most people are.

STILES
Well, I’m not.

LEDGER
Well, maybe you’re not afraid of me. But I’m
sure you’ve thought about me naked, huh?

He gives her a knowing wink.

and then....

LEDGER
What is it with this chick, she have beer flavored nipples?


And all I can think of is.....boy thats a great watered down Joker. This dude is perfect. I don't need to hear his laugh before TDK with one liners like that.
But of course, I wouldn't mind either.

I'm not afraid to admit I really love that film. :up: :oldrazz:

[Ryan227]

10 Things is a great movie and Ledger gives a good performance and I can see where that could be a watered down Joker esp the first quote about being afraid of him, that def sounds like something Joker would say to a hostage or two or three or a busload.........

[ghost_x]

Crooklyn was banned for posting a link to child porn

It all makes sense now

[ghost_x]

Frankly I'm extremely happy Ledgers going into this with a large amount of experimentation, it sounds like he's fine tuning into the character to produce the right level of madness.

[itsthebatman]

Just back now, had to go out just after posting before. Reading about Crooklyn.All I can say is wow. What a fool.
Miranda, Ryan, try the witty banter thing with me. I'll see of I can up with any more gems like the FF2 spoilers!
And yeah, the Ledger interview sounds good. Bouncing around like a lunatic indeed!

[D.P.]

Don't tell me they banned the resident smart ass...

[itsthebatman]

Don't tell me they banned the resident smart ass...
Yep. Read the previous page, hunter rider gives the reason why.

[D.P.]

Wow...In what context did he post child porn?

Just randomly? He didn't strike me as a pedo...:huh:

I enjoyed his posts...

[Mee]

Wow...In what context did he post child porn?

Just randomly? He didn't strike me as a pedo...:huh:

I enjoyed his posts...
It was in a thread in community about a high school girl (16-17 I think) who was expelled for some nekkid pics that were on the web.

Crooklyn eventually posted a link to them. :huh:


The End.

[StorminNorman]

Crooklyn posted a pic of the actually nekkid pics? or just the scantily clad ones I saw and...admired?

[Mee]

What I heard was he posted a link to the nekkid ones.

[ronzpeed]

It was in a thread in community about a high school girl (16-17 I think) who was expelled for some nekkid pics that were on the web.

Crooklyn eventually posted a link to them. :huh:


The End.


no wonder his avatar seemed kind of creepy lol. i bet he'll re-register with a different name

[Ryan227]

Just back now, had to go out just after posting before. Reading about Crooklyn.All I can say is wow. What a fool.
Miranda, Ryan, try the witty banter thing with me. I'll see of I can up with any more gems like the FF2 spoilers!
And yeah, the Ledger interview sounds good. Bouncing around like a lunatic indeed!

Woo hoo a new person for witty banter! LOL yeah dude only fools do the things he tried so I guess we pick up and move on...

[ComicChick]

crooklyn asked me to post this on his behalf:

Crooklyn was banned for posting a link to child porn


"dear fellow hypesters, this statement is a bit misplaced and since i don't wanna be remembered as a damn pedo (like hr so eloquently implied), i'll explain a bit. there was a thread i made concerning a hs girl getting expelled for raunchy pics. there were some nudes that came across my way, but I DID NOT post a direct link to it. instead i posted a link to another news site where people comment on the story. the specific page i linked to contained over 500 messages. part of the joke was u'd have to go through every single one to find it, hence if ur that desperate...ur probably a loser. haha, hee-hee, all that good stuff. mods didn't find it funny. and since i alreadly have it in badly with one of them, i'm booted. hope that straightens things out.

so for a little while...i'll be out. shame u all have to miss out on ur fellow resident jackass, but i'm sure some of u i've annoyed are also quite happy. peace and love, i'll miss u all."


again, that was posted for Crooklyn

[Ryan227]

crooklyn asked me to post this on his behalf:




"dear fellow hypesters, this statement is a bit misplaced and since i don't wanna be remembered as a damn pedo (like hr so eloquently implied), i'll explain a bit. there was a thread i made concerning a hs girl getting expelled for raunchy pics. there were some nudes that came across my way, but I DID NOT post a direct link to it. instead i posted a link to another news site where people comment on the story. the specific page i linked to contained over 500 messages. part of the joke was u'd have to go through every single one to find it, hence if ur that desperate...ur probably a loser. haha, hee-hee, all that good stuff. mods didn't find it funny. and since i alreadly have it in badly with one of them, i'm booted. hope that straightens things out.

so for a little while...i'll be out. shame u all have to miss out on ur fellow resident jackass, but i'm sure some of u i've annoyed are also quite happy. peace and love, i'll miss u all."


again, that was posted for Crooklyn

Crooklyn, thanks for the clarification dude! Hope we get to see you again sometime soon! Until then I'll put something in my sig in tribute of our "resident smart ass".

[ComicChick]

OOO, OOO! Send Crooklyn this link.

http://valboard.ipbfree.com/index.php?

will do

[ROBOCOP CPU001]

unfortunately whether it was a joke or not.. you don't post things like that ever, its sick and very ill to even imply that sort of thing a joke.

lets not speak of this again.

[ghost_x]

I hope Crooklyn didn't die in vein, I hope many enjoyed the pictures

[ROBOCOP CPU001]

I hope Crooklyn didn't die in vein, I hope many enjoyed the pictures

Your sick! :cmad:

[ghost_x]

So I've been told

[Nepenthes]

well Crooklyn pissed me off but now i think im gonna miss him and all his little red faces :o. hope he wasn't IP banned

[Miranda Fox]

well Crooklyn pissed me off but now i think im gonna miss him and all his little red faces :o. hope he wasn't IP banned

He did so love that smilie...

[itsthebatman]

Let's all move along, people. Nothing to see here.

[Paste Pot Pete]

Nothing to see here.

Not even pics of under age girls?

CROOKLYN!!!!!!!!!!!

[itsthebatman]

Not even pics of under age girls?

CROOKLYN!!!!!!!!!!!

http://content.ytmnd.com/content/8/0/1/8010dbb7551284aba9a7d0119dccf478.jpg

NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Nivek]

Enough, can we get back into pointless bickering about the Joker? I'm sick of hearing about this guy and the Kiddie Porn crap for almost 2 pages.

[Paste Pot Pete]

Enough, can we get back into pointless bickering about the Joker? I'm sick of hearing about this guy and the Kiddie Porn crap for almost 2 pages.

Were the pictures of your sister or something?

http://mynameisearlkress.com/weblog/triumph01.jpg

I keed, I keed.

[Ryan227]

Enough, can we get back into pointless bickering about the Joker? I'm sick of hearing about this guy and the Kiddie Porn crap for almost 2 pages.

There is nothing positive about this post is there? What do you want to discuss about the Joker? How about you provide a topic for discussion instead of calling the Joker discussion pointless and the other discussion crap?

[itsthebatman]

Enough, can we get back into pointless bickering about the Joker? I'm sick of hearing about this guy and the Kiddie Porn crap for almost 2 pages.

JaCK nICHOlsON FOR jOKeR! LeDDger suX!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[regwec]

Crooklyn was banned for posting a link to child porn

You're kidding?

[regwec]

unfortunately whether it was a joke or not.. you don't post things like that ever, its sick and very ill to even imply that sort of thing a joke.

In my country, a girl of sixteen is entirely legal. Unless we are all collectively mentally ill, then we must conclude that there is a shade or two of grey to be seen here.

[itsthebatman]

Someone under legal age in the US, I think. A link to topless pictures. There was a thread about the pictures in the SHH! community forum, and Crooklyn posted a link to the uncensored pictures. And that was that. Tad draconian, considering the personal buse some people get away with here.

[Rynan]

And with one foul and stupid move, The Joker thread is brought to an end.

[itsthebatman]

Let's move on. Did anyone else read that short interview with Ledger where he talked about his preparation to date for the role?

[regwec]

Yes, and I was encouraged. The fact he spoke of a makeup test and rehearsing his laugh all seem to give hope that our Joker will not be diluted too much.

[itsthebatman]

Yes, and I was encouraged. The fact he spoke of a makeup test and rehearsing his laugh all seem to give hope that our Joker will not be diluted too much.

Definitely. I don't think there's going to be much dilution at all. Apart from the thing about not reading comics (and that helping him), pretty much everything else Ledger has said has pointed to a faithful interpretation of the character.

[Ryan227]

I hope the Joker comes completely unhinged at some point. I mean crazy nutso! Esp. if he lets out the hysterical laugh!

[Miranda Fox]

Definitely. I don't think there's going to be much dilution at all. Apart from the thing about not reading comics (and that helping him), pretty much everything else Ledger has said has pointed to a faithful interpretation of the character.

:up:

[uchiha_itachi]

JaCK nICHOlsON FOR jOKeR! LeDDger suX!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you know i was thinking would people mind if jack took up the role again. i was lookign at his pciture on the departed dvd cover and i think he looks like joker anyway. if only they done the make up better in batman

[ROBOCOP CPU001]

In my country, a girl of sixteen is entirely legal. Unless we are all collectively mentally ill, then we must conclude that there is a shade or two of grey to be seen here.



Agreed..I'm English..16 is perfectly fine here in blighty. how ever i was not sure how old the so called girls were..in this case there is a rule as this is an American site..where 18 is the legal age.

so the American rules take presidence.

[Dirt Like Me]

Enough, can we get back into pointless bickering about the Joker? I'm sick of hearing about this guy and the Kiddie Porn crap for almost 2 pages.

I agree. And it seems like all this talk really stopped the Joker discussion.

And I need a distraction from studying. So, in my humble attempt to re-start things, I'll say this: I really don't care if Ledger wears any purple or not in TDK. Yeah, the color has been associated with the character forever, but I don't know that it's really essential to him. For comparison's sake, I see the purple as being akin to the yellow oval and blue cape; while the Joker's hair, skin and lips are more like the shape of the cowl and utility belt (those are the elements that make people recognize the character).

I really like what Alex Ross does with the Joker, and at this point I'd say that I'd rather see the Joker onscreen in a white tie formal tux than a purple suit. And I'm not a slave to 'realism'. I just think the white tie style looks badass, and it makes the red lips and green hair really stand out.

[regwec]

My problem with Ross's Joker is that it is only a dash of green in the hair that distinguishes him from Dracula. He looks great, but there is a certain amount of blurring of the icons.

[itsthebatman]

I never thought that, Regwec. I personally think Ross's depiction would work well on screen, with the 'grounded in reality' ethos os the current franchise.

[Rynan]

My problem with Ross's Joker is that it is only a dash of green in the hair that distinguishes him from Dracula. He looks great, but there is a certain amount of blurring of the icons.

And there's something wrong with that? I really think that's a positive. The Joker should give off the vibe of a classic, cold hearted, manipulative, tuxedoed villains like Dracula.

But MY problem with Ross's art is that it often looks like a grainy 70's Polaroid and he doesn't draw "real" people. I mean, he draws realisticlooking people, but they aren't "real". It's like they're posing for a picture. It lacks the illusion of life.

[regwec]

Yes, I think that it is a problem. Pulp/comicbook characters of the 30s and 40s are all sythesi of an ecclectic range of literary and cultural influences, and to stress one at the expense of the others cheapens the particular construct, in my opinion.

[Raniburger]

Hey guys,

When do you think we'll get to catch our first glimpse of Ledger in Joker makeup/costume?

[ghost_x]

Either someone leaking a production/make up test shot, or a trailer in the distant future

[Raniburger]

I seem to remember that our first glimpse of the (horrible) Green Goblin costume way back when SM1 first came out, came from a spy shot on set - prior to any official shots being released.

I guess if there happens to be any outdoor shots of the Joker coming up we may be lucky enough to get something similar. Once the spy shots start leaking out, you know the 'official' studio ones won't be too far behind...

[ghost_x]

Back in the day of the first spiderman movie the sets were far less secretive than nowadays when everything about the production is kept highly confidential.

[Dirt Like Me]

Yes, I think that it is a problem. Pulp/comicbook characters of the 30s and 40s are all sythesi of an ecclectic range of literary and cultural influences, and to stress one at the expense of the others cheapens the particular construct, in my opinion.

I think I understand what you're saying. But at the same time, it would be extremely difficult to reflect every influence in a character every time they're depicted. And when the task is to whittle a character with 70 years of history down to a role in a 150 minute (if we're lucky) movie, then I think it's obvious that some influences/character aspects will have to be sacrificed or minimized for the sake of others.

The question then becomes what aspects to neglect? Like anything else, it's a matter of preference. Different people have different takes on everything in the Batman mythos. Personally, I'm fine with downplaying the clown elements of the Joker (such as the purple suit and gag weapons) in order to showcase some of his other, more sinister, traits. As an example: I'd prefer to see him depicted more like he was in The Dark Knight Returns than he was The Long Halloween.

In fact, while I'm at it: I think one of the scariest scenes involving the Joker is when he's smoking a cigarette behind the mesh grate in DKR. (The "What kind of bombs?" scene). There's nothing clown-like about him, but the silence, the deliberation before he speaks, and the look in his eyes is just so evil...I'd love to see Ledger bring that sort of vibe to life.

[itsthebatman]

I think I understand what you're saying. But at the same time, it would be extremely difficult to reflect every influence in a character every time they're depicted. And when the task is to whittle a character with 70 years of history down to a role in a 150 minute (if we're lucky) movie, then I think it's obvious that some influences/character aspects will have to be sacrificed or minimized for the sake of others.

The question then becomes what aspects to neglect? Like anything else, it's a matter of preference. Different people have different takes on everything in the Batman mythos. Personally, I'm fine with downplaying the clown elements of the Joker (such as the purple suit and gag weapons) in order to showcase some of his other, more sinister, traits. As an example: I'd prefer to see him depicted more like he was in The Dark Knight Returns than he was The Long Halloween.

In fact, while I'm at it: I think one of the scariest scenes involving the Joker is when he's smoking a cigarette behind the mesh grate in DKR. (The "What kind of bombs?" scene). There's nothing clown-like about him, but the silence, the deliberation before he speaks, and the look in his eyes is just so evil...I'd love to see Ledger bring that sort of vibe to life.

Exactly. With a character that has been around as long as he has, almost 70 years ago, certain aspects are played up, others played down or ignired altogether. That scene in DKR is fantastic, and his overall depiction is very well done. The scene showing him handing out poison candy to Scouts at the candy fair, could be done by no other member of the Rogue's gallery, with that mixture of flamboyance, brazenness and sadism that characterises modern-day Joker.

In some ways, regwec, it's similar to the previous debate about Harvey Dent/Two-Face. TLH emphasises certain aspects of Harvey's character, and pays less attention to others that had been established in his entire comic-book history. TLH will be THE major influence on the Nolan's characterisation of the DA, and that's a good thing in my book. Similarly, a Joker based on a synthesis of elements from Batman #1, Five Way Revenge and The Man Who Laughs, doesn;t incorporate all the characteristics he has displayed throughout his career, but is good enough for me.

Basically, characterisation wise, you can't please all of the people all of the time.

[ghost_x]

Exactly. With a character that has been around as long as he has, almost 70 years ago, certain aspects are played up, others played down or ignired altogether. That scene in DKR is fantastic, and his overall depiction is very well done. The scene showing him handing out poison candy to Scouts at the candy fair, could be done by no other member of the Rogue's gallery, with that mixture of flamboyance, brazenness and sadism that characterises modern-day Joker.

In some ways, regwec, it's similar to the previous debate about Harvey Dent/Two-Face. TLH emphasises certain aspects of Harvey's character, and pays less attention to others that had been established in his entire comic-book history. TLH will be THE major influence on the Nolan's characterisation of the DA, and that's a good thing in my book. Similarly, a Joker based on a synthesis of elements from Batman #1, Five Way Revenge and The Man Who Laughs, doesn;t incorporate all the characteristics he has displayed throughout his career, but is good enough for me.

Basically, characterisation wise, you can't please all of the people all of the time.

Your right you can't please all the people all the time, but they can however use the interpretation that is the most apt for the movie and if Nolan feels that one version wouldn't work in his storyline, than I wouldn't want him to use it.

[regwec]

Exactly. With a character that has been around as long as he has, almost 70 years ago, certain aspects are played up, others played down or ignired altogether. That scene in DKR is fantastic, and his overall depiction is very well done. The scene showing him handing out poison candy to Scouts at the candy fair, could be done by no other member of the Rogue's gallery, with that mixture of flamboyance, brazenness and sadism that characterises modern-day Joker.

In some ways, regwec, it's similar to the previous debate about Harvey Dent/Two-Face. TLH emphasises certain aspects of Harvey's character, and pays less attention to others that had been established in his entire comic-book history. TLH will be THE major influence on the Nolan's characterisation of the DA, and that's a good thing in my book. Similarly, a Joker based on a synthesis of elements from Batman #1, Five Way Revenge and The Man Who Laughs, doesn;t incorporate all the characteristics he has displayed throughout his career, but is good enough for me.

Basically, characterisation wise, you can't please all of the people all of the time.

That's all well and good, but the original question was about The Joker's appearance and attire. It is quite straightforward to pay hommage to most or all of the character's history through imagery, if not characterisation.

[itsthebatman]

That's all well and good, but the original question was about The Joker's appearance and attire. It is quite straightforward to pay hommage to most or all of the character's history through imagery, if not characterisation.

Grand. The post of yours I was addressing seemed to me to allow a response not just about the clothing and attire, but the overall approach to the character. I just picked up the ball and ran in a different direction.

[regwec]

I see. You Irishmen are getting far too good at side stepping tackles. :)

[itsthebatman]

I do what I can.

[Jekyll Faygo]

I think we'll be seeing a very formal eggplant trenchcoat. I still can't figure out wether or not Ras is wearing very dark green at the end of Begins. If he isn't, it would have been a nice and subtle homage to the comic character (Still was hoping for Viggo Mortenson though)

This 'jumping around like a lunatic' business is interesting as well. I was hoping to stray very far away from the Nicholson Joker and get something more like Bill the BUtcher meets Ed Wood as played by Johnny Depp.

[Closerframe]

Joker should wear trench coat the is a very dark green with a purple inside. And when Ledger said the Joker will have piercing eyes they should be very dark...

[The Joker]

Joker should wear trench coat the is a very dark green with a purple inside.

A green trenchcoat?? I think that would look horrible. Joker's only green feature should be his hair, IMO. Leave the trenchcoat purple to compliment his suit.

[Super Kal]

green?... isn't it supposed to be purple?


anywho, I'd rather see him wear a grey suit with a black shirt and a purple tie. :up:

yay, thumbs are back :D

[The Joker]

green?... isn't it supposed to be purple?

Yes, it is. Joker's always had a purple trenchcoat. Goes with his suit and hat.

[SUPERSEBAS]

Dear Crazy Person,

The chief problems with your argument are two. Firstly, that this manip of Heath Ledger is money, and only hurts your argument; and secondly that looks are not the deciding factor in what makes a good actor.

Now, where George McFly is concerned, let me tell you something about your beloved: he ruined his own film career by demanding a ridiculous sum of money to appear in Back to the Future II after having really only had a single major film on his resume: Back to the Future. The studio knew he wasn't worth the money he was asking, so they told him he could either take the money they were offering, or he could get bent.

Glover has barely had any work since, and has had no high-profile successes. Mostly, this is because nobody wants to work with him. Do you know why nobody wants to work with him? The answer is simple, my dear lunatic:

Crispin Glover is an absolute turdbiter.

Why would Chris Nolan want to work with him? There are less painful experiences in the world - such as sticking one's manhood in a sausage grinder, or deep-frying your own eyeballs.

Sincerely,

Keyser Sushi
Director, Counter-Idiocy Agency


Look what I find!!!!!!! a interview with Crispin Glover were he says what happen with back to the future and why he doest work to much after that movie! he is in a black list on howllywood because of that! as you can see, people talk but they dont know nothing!


Nick: So what happened? Not to go over a sore subject again, but Back to the Future II and III and the subsequent lawsuit, did you choose to not be in that film or was it something in the script?

Crispin: We did not come to a financial agreement. And I will say…

Nick: Michael J. Fox had become a huge star.

Crispin: Well I’ll say something about that, there is an unfair thing that happened. There are those commentaries on the DVDs. And Bob Gale specifically says things that are untrue.

Nick: He says them in person, too.

Crispin: What’s that?

Nick: He says them in person, too, I’ve been to a screening of Back to the Future.

Crispin: Yeah, no, I know. And I investigated, you know, I’m very interested in slander and that kind of stuff. But the way laws work, it’s difficult. But the things that he says on those DVDs are not true. They're not what happened and they're inaccurate. As much as he says, he has many Back to the Future fans, because I don’t address stuff, I don’t have the voice and of course having that voice on those DVDs gives him this ultimate authority as to what is accurate and it isn’t. It’s just a lie. The way Robert Zemeckis phrased it was a little more calculating, because what Robert Zemeckis said was that I asked for too much money. But that could be anything, I could have asked for two dollars and well, that was too much money. The fact of it is, is I was offered not just a little bit less, but far less than anybody else that was coming back in the film because I had done River’s Edge, I did River’s Edge for scale. And they were doubling everybody’s money from their [last movie] that they had made. And I had not [made a lot of money on River’s Edge], and Leah Thompson had made Howard the Duck. And Tom Wilson had made some other movies that he’d made some money. So they were getting paid a hell of a lot more money, which was unfair and unacceptable to me. And they never went up. And I just said no.

Nick: Had you seen the script by that point?

Crispin: There were several steps of things that happened. When they first approached me about it, I really didn’t want to be in it. It wasn’t of interest to me. And my concept of money was a very different thing. Right now I need to make money to make my films. I wasn’t thinking about it in those terms at that point. I wanted to do interesting things, and I wasn’t really interested in repeating that. Working on the film was not necessarily that easy, it was just whatever. And I was 21.

Nick: You shoot it twice in a sense the first time.

Crispin: Yeah, I was 20 when I made Back to the Future, but I was 21 or 22 maybe when they came to me about [the sequel]. So you know, you're young and thinking about different kinds of things. And I just, I knew…well I don’t want to go into too many details. But there were things that, there were discussions that had been had about conceptual things on the original film that I don't know— it’s not something that I should really bring into—some day maybe I’ll write about it or something.

Nick: ’Cause there’s a large argument that George McFly in a sense could be considered the lead character of Back to the Future. In the Castro Theater ad for your upcoming film festival that’s coming up, they mention that. They say that as fact. That they say this is one of the best films of the 1980s, and it’s even cooler when you consider the fact that George McFly is the main character of the film.

Crispin: Well it’s not the main character, but it is a character that has a strong character arc.

Nick: Yes.

Crispin: There is a protagonistic character arc for the character. But there’s also a protagonistic character arc for the Michael J. Fox character. And the Michael J. Fox character is the main character, there’s no question about that. But [George is] a significant character, no question. And the thing of it is, I do like the work that came through in it.

Nick: You're fantastic. It’s a very iconic role.

Crispin: It was a good role and I was just out of acting class, I was very on top of certain things. I felt good. I haven't watched it since it first came out. I purposefully avoid looking at it again. Like I say, there are just things [about the experience]. And then it was immediately followed by these other things that happened. And it does make you think about a lot of stuff.

Nick: Well going to Layne in River’s Edge afterwards, those are two phenomenal performances.

Crispin: Yeah, it was a very different role. I was interested in trying to find different kinds of things. So my concept of going and repeating that character wasn’t that interesting, especially when they first approached me. The way that I went about it probably was not the, I probably, well…in any case, I let them know that I didn’t want to do it. They came back to me, though, and the negotiation process actually went backwards. They offered me a certain amount of money the first time when I said no. And they actually offered me less money when they came back the second time. These are the things— I really haven't said this before. And so it was purposely torturous. And I just couldn’t, I couldn’t do it. And then you know, Bob Gale comes out and says these things on the DVD, which just have nothing to do with reality. And of course they know I don’t have the kind of audience that they're going to have on that DVD. I didn’t participate in the DVD, so that their point of view will become the truth.

Nick: Did they come to you to participate on the DVD?

Crispin: They asked me to give permission for a makeup test. But I never give permission for anything for that film for any clips when people ask for permission. I just don’t. I just avoid it. All of those things added up together does not make me feel particularly kindly about the whole thing. Which it is too bad.

Nick: There are millions of people that love that film.

Crispin: I know, and on top of it, because of those statements that were made on the DVD, which were specifically— it’s not like they're stupid people, they know what they're doing when they say those things. They were specifically designed to make people angry at me. And they were angry at me, I’m sure. And then, and but that’s the weird thing is they were angry at me relatively early on and I felt it while we were making the movie, which also didn’t make me feel that comfortable. If you look at outtakes of the film, I’ve been told, I’ve not watched it, somebody that’s a friend of mine watched the things. And he said he could see that the way people were acting around me, I think there was something he said there was an outtake from throwing something down the [diner counter], like a milkshake. Give me milk or something that…

Nick: Chocolate milk.

Crispin: Chocolate milk there. There was somebody, it’s like I was supposed to catch the chocolate milk. It was something that was actually being done, and a number of takes were took. And he said somebody off camera is like, making a face like, it didn’t work again or something. I can’t remember but there was a feeling on the set that was, I don't know, I did not feel particularly liked. But it’s an interesting thing, though, talking about Back to the Future. The fact that I just worked with Robert Zemeckis almost frees me up talking about it. I haven't talked about it a lot over the years. But the fact that I actually had a good experience now working with Robert Zemeckis, I somehow feel a little easier for some reason talking about it, even if some of those things are not necessarily positive things.

Nick: Zemeckis didn’t participate on the DVDs either, if I’m not mistaken.

Crispin: I think there were question and answers that both him and Bob Gale are in.

Nick: But I don't think he was on the commentary.

Crispin: I don't know. I really haven't watched them. I know that I would not be comfortable doing it. But I’ve talked to people that have, and I believe he and Bob Gale. And I’ve looked at transcripts to see exactly what was written. Bob Gale does not tell the truth. He just absolutely says things that are untrue. What Robert Zemeckis said was that I asked for too much money, but like I said, I could have asked for…

Nick: You could interpret that…

Crispin: Yeah, I mean if they offered me less than half of what the other people that were coming back were getting, for them, that was too much money. That was wrong. I just, but I think the fact that that kind of bitter guile is brought out all of these years later on this DVD is really a pretty small kind of thing to do.

Wendy: It wasn’t necessary for him to say that.

Crispin: Yeah. And then of course on the internet there are people that write negative things about me specifically having to do with that. Saying I’m this greedy guy. And it’s like…

Nick: Have they looked at your career? You’re not a greedy guy!

Crispin: Well I mean, I am interested, and I am specifically picking things right now to make money which I hadn't been, especially at that point. It wasn’t about that. But you know, there is such a thing as things that just aren't right, and that wasn’t right.

Mark: Right, and after you made Back to the Future, that was such a big hit, did you have a lot of offers to be in big Hollywood movies that you turned down?

Crispin: There, well there was a lot of interest. But if you look at the movies that were being made at the time, really there were a lot of Spielberg films. And there were a lot of would be called the brat pack films. And they made me uncomfortable for various reasons. And River’s Edge, I did like that script, and that is one of the few movies that I made really in the wake, that really is the only film that I really had a choice to do right after. That’s the first film that I did after Back to the Future had been released, was River’s Edge. I didn’t make money on that film. I really did like that role.

Nick: There’s the prestige factor.

Crispin: Yeah. The film ultimately did well. It made its money back. I looked, I didn’t know how much it had made. I think it was somewhere between four and five million and the film cost a million and something. So it actually made money in the box-office. Now it’s on video. It was Hemdale that had made the film. And they went out of business and they owed me quite a bit of money and I didn’t get that. Now MGM owns it, and I do get statements from that deal. But I did have some points because I got paid scale for it.

Nick: Do you still get checks for Back to the Future?

Crispin: Yeah. They're not very large, but I do get checks for it, yeah. It goes down over the years.

Nick: Are you completely soured on Back to the Future?

Crispin: Yeah, again, it’s like I don’t want to say anything a hundred percent negative about Back to the Future, because I’m not. I feel good about the fact that that original film exists. And even you know, with the things that happened in the negotiations, if the other stuff hadn't happened that ended up being part of the lawsuit, you know, and they just made a film with another actor, they just put another actor in the role and didn’t intersplice it with stuff from me, fine, that would have been fine. Or if they had just taken the original footage of me from the film and left that alone, fine. But the fact that they were fooling people and then saying all of these kind of negative things about me later, it just, it really isn’t right. But I had a very good working experience just now with Robert Zemeckis on Beowulf. So it’s interesting.

Nick: I think one of the most incredible moments in What Is It? is when a character calls your character “McFly.” I think it’s going to elicit laughs. Was that improv’d?

[SUPERSEBAS]

:huh: Doble post

[regwec]

That's of no interest to anyone except you. It would be polite to link to the article, rather than reproduce it in full.

[SUPERSEBAS]

Nick: There’s the prestige factor.


Crispin: Yeah. The film ultimately did well. It made its money back. I looked, I didn’t know how much it had made. I think it was somewhere between four and five million and the film cost a million and something. So it actually made money in the box-office. Now it’s on video. It was Hemdale that had made the film. And they went out of business and they owed me quite a bit of money and I didn’t get that. Now MGM owns it, and I do get statements from that deal. But I did have some points because I got paid scale for it.


Nick: Do you still get checks for Back to the Future?


Crispin: Yeah. They're not very large, but I do get checks for it, yeah. It goes down over the years.


Nick: Are you completely soured on Back to the Future?


Crispin: Yeah, again, it’s like I don’t want to say anything a hundred percent negative about Back to the Future, because I’m not. I feel good about the fact that that original film exists. And even you know, with the things that happened in the negotiations, if the other stuff hadn't happened that ended up being part of the lawsuit, you know, and they just made a film with another actor, they just put another actor in the role and didn’t intersplice it with stuff from me, fine, that would have been fine. Or if they had just taken the original footage of me from the film and left that alone, fine. But the fact that they were fooling people and then saying all of these kind of negative things about me later, it just, it really isn’t right. But I had a very good working experience just now with Robert Zemeckis on Beowulf. So it’s interesting.


Nick: I think one of the most incredible moments in What Is It? is when a character calls your character “McFly.” I think it’s going to elicit laughs. Was that improv’d?


Crispin: No, I wrote that.


Nick: Okay.


Crispin: Yeah. I’m reacting to a lot of things that I was talking about being corporate, corporately funded filmmaking. But, some of my experience with that film started me thinking about these things and seeing how some of these elements work and thoughts behind things that were going on. It’s a reaction to that. There’s no question about it. And I feel like when I show [What Is It?] in Los Angeles, I feel like I’ll actually get the most kind of reaction when I’m having the question and answer periods than anywhere. Because it’s specifically reacting to this city. At least it is in my mind.


Wendy: The Arnold Schwarzenegger line is funny.


Crispin: That was an improvisation. Adam Parfrey, who plays the minstrel, he’s a publisher, he published Apocalypse Culture and it’s right there, which I have an article about the subtext of What Is It? in Apocalypse Culture II. He plays the minstrel in the film. But his speech, when he says, “free of this human form, free of this opposable thumb, the primate,” that’s an improv. But it was several takes in. We were working on several things. There were certain things I wanted him to get across, there were certain things he was kind of going for. And it’s a really good improv.


Wendy: Yeah.


Crispin: But it wasn’t in that one main portion, it’s kind of like, his monologue, but one of the takes he did start talking about Arnold Schwarzenegger and that did— of course it was shot many years ago.


Mark: Before he was governor.


Crispin: Before he was governor.


Wendy: It feels like you want to watch it again, because I know that I missed stuff.


Crispin: Yeah. And people that see it a second time do have a different experience from the first time that they watched it. And, 'cause the first time I’m sure it is, there is a lot of information.


Wendy: Well it’s like you never know what’s next. What are you going to see now, you know?


Crispin: Right. So it’s the second time, people have already had that experience and then they can start concentrating on the story and that, on some level I feel like that happened when I first saw Eraserhead as well. I wanted to see it over and over again 'cause I would get different feelings and different experiences each time, which to me is the mark of a good film.


Nick: What did you think of A.I.?


Crispin: I thought that was interesting because…


Nick: I notice there seems to be a lot of Spielberg in this Apocalypse Culture II piece.


Crispin: Yeah, there’s a lot of Spielberg references in that particular— I think you can find versions of it online. There’s one that somebody misspelled, mistyped, misprinted. But I think there’s a good version of it somewhere. That’s worth reading, actually, that article. I thought A.I. was interesting in that for a lot of reasons. I had known that Kubrick had worked on it for many years, and when I watched it I could tell. There were themes in that movie that were very evidently Kubrickian. The time, the massive time jumps and the abandoned son. When Alex [in A Clockwork Orange] comes back home and there’s the new son sitting in the chair and he has it in Barry Lyndon when the son is abandoned by the mother and then comes back. That one is a case where the main character is Barry Lyndon, but the protagonist is the son who comes in and gives the comeuppance to Barry Lyndon.


Nick: Did you get the Taschen Kubrick book?


Crispin: I don’t have that. I want to get that. But it was also interesting that, I mean I am sorry that Kubrick— I would have loved to have seen Kubrick’s version of [A.I.], because when watching 2001 and looking at that, there is a version available of 2001, an early scripted version of it that has a lot of narration and description that Kubrick cut out later on. And you feel like that with A.I., there was a lot of stuff in it that you know Kubrick would have cut out and of course Spielberg has a very different sensibility. But I always feel like there’s a joke in it that Kubrick—the theme did have to do with manipulated emotions. And I don't feel that Steven Spielberg is honest with emotions. I think the way he manipulates screenplays, sometimes they have good structure and sometimes they don’t. And sometimes he pulls out structural truths and manipulates them in order to make a truth that he wants to get across, a propaganda that isn’t the truth. And I’m very aware of it and I don’t appreciate it as filmmaking. I go and see every one of his films that comes out because he’s not untalented. He’s good with lenses, he can have a good art direction. He can do interesting things. But I don’t ever like his movies. There is something about them that genuinely greatly disturbs me.


Nick: But yet keeps pulling you back, though.


Crispin: It’s not that I am pulled back by them, it’s that I know it’s a subject matter that’s important for me to keep on top of because I want to know what it is specifically that I’m not going to like about his work. He is the most successful filmmaker and I think he’s the most influential person in this culture right now. And I think he's doing something very bad for the culture. I don't think he’s doing good things. And I’m adamant about that. And the fact that you know, most people will get very angry at you if you say something like that, which is strange.


Nick: Yeah.


Crispin: It’s like, he’s just a filmmaker. I should be allowed to say that.


Nick: Sure.


Crispin: But I really, I really don’t like what he's doing. I think it’s bad stuff. And specifically with my experience of what happened where there’s this kind of purported element of him being a do-gooder. And that wasn’t necessarily my experience [with Back to the Future]. [Laughs] I mean, but he’s another one, I’m never gonna work with Steven Spielberg. He’s not gonna hire me.


Nick: What if he did, would you do it?


Crispin: I would assume if I’m being paid my quote and that there's a role and all of that. But, you know, there would be certain things that I wouldn’t do, but I’d have to look at it. But I am divorcing myself from the output of things. So I assume I would. It’s a funny thing, because there is that element of like, like I said, I can easily get into a point where I’m thinking this is not the right thing that I’m doing. Because I can be very hyper critical, obviously, with what I just said about his films. I’m hyper critical. And yet if I was appearing in one of his films, what does that make me? It makes me a hypocrite. But I’m utilizing money to make my own films that I’m very passionate about. And I think it’s more important for me to do that at this point than to have an idealistic attitude of what I should or shouldn’t do. So yeah, fact of it is if— I have no delusions that Steven Spielberg is going to be interested in me to be in a film. So, [laughs] it doesn’t really matter what I say. But, I don't know.


Mark: There’s a funny reference at the end credits [of What Is It?] to Spielberg.


Crispin: What it says is this has not advocated the assassination of Steven Spielberg in any way. [Laughs] It’s really worth reading the whole thing. It says [laughs] I really shouldn’t read this right now, 'cause you should read the whole thing. It’s not [laughs], it is funny, I have to say. I mean I’m glad I wrote it. [Laughs] But, well we’ll see, here’s what it says, I might as well read it. [Laughs] Well, I always feel like if I’m going to read it, I’ve got to read the whole thing…

[regwec]

That's of no interest to anyone except you. It would be polite to link to the article, rather than reproduce it in full.

Again.

[itsthebatman]

Link, dude, link. Irrelevant in this thread. Or is your argument that Nolan was prevented from using Glover as Joker because of this blacklisting?

[Miranda Fox]

SUPERSEBAS, I have nothing against you personally, but you will please cut this out? I'm sorry the actor you wanted didn't get cast but ultimately, it's hardly the end of the world.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y38/aliasvaughn/nh.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y38/aliasvaughn/31310114333copy.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y38/aliasvaughn/internethasspoken.jpg

[SUPERSEBAS]

Link, dude, link. Irrelevant in this thread. Or is your argument that Nolan was prevented from using Glover as Joker because of this blacklisting?


To understand why I post the interview, you must read what Keyser Sushi say about Crispin, is the same that everybody says, only because they listen what the producers say in the special feautes in back to the future, not because they made a investigation about it and think for they own

here is the link to the interview!


http://www.undertheradarmag.com/crispinglover.html

[SUPERSEBAS]

SUPERSEBAS, I have nothing against you personally, but you will please cut this out? I'm sorry the actor you wanted didn't get cast but ultimately, it's hardly the end of the world.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y38/aliasvaughn/nh.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y38/aliasvaughn/31310114333copy.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y38/aliasvaughn/internethasspoken.jpg

I am not talking about Crispin about the joker now! I just showing how people doest think for they own, jusnt repeat what they listen. here in this interview, you can her what Crispin have to say, and then, you can understand a lot of things about it! and maybe way Crispin Glover is not the joker!

[itsthebatman]

Love that last one.

[itsthebatman]

I am not talking about Crispin about the joker now! I just showing how people doest think for they own, jusnt repeat what they listen. here in this interview, you can her what Crispin have to say, and then, you can understand a lot of things about it! and maybe way Crispin Glover is not the joker!

Regardless, though, I doubt Nolan would have picked Glover as the Joker. The only role that has gone to a fan choice so far is Christian Bale's. To suggest that Glover's supposed blacklisting had a role in preventing him getting the part is ... a stretch, at best.
Thanks for the link. Always best with lengthy articles to do this.

[Miranda Fox]

I am not talking about Crispin about the joker now! I just showing how people doest think for they own, jusnt repeat what they listen. here in this interview, you can her what Crispin have to say, and then, you can understand a lot of things about it! and maybe way Crispin Glover is not the joker!

It doesn't specifically say he was blacklisted...:/ Just that the producers said negative things about him which may or may not be true (Crispin is no more reliable source than the producers IMO - bias and all that.)

[SUPERSEBAS]

SUPERSEBAS, I have nothing against you personally, but you will please cut this out? I'm sorry the actor you wanted didn't get cast but ultimately, it's hardly the end of the world.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y38/aliasvaughn/nh.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y38/aliasvaughn/31310114333copy.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y38/aliasvaughn/internethasspoken.jpg

And thank you! because we dont agree, but at list you talk with me with the respect that a lot of people doest practise with me!

[Miranda Fox]

And thank you! because we dont agree, but an list you talk with me with the respect that a lot of people here not use with me!

Well, actually, I was probably kind of *****y last time - sorry about that, I should and mostly do know better.

The images are meant as a joke, don't mind them. :woot:

[itsthebatman]

Well, actually, I was probably kind of *****y last time - sorry about that, I should and mostly do know better.

The images are meant as a joke, don't mind them. :woot:

Yeah, right. Of course you mean them seriously. Don't believe a word she says, Supersebas!

:oldrazz: :oldrazz: :oldrazz:

[wikum]

crispin glover is an *******.

he's not a bad actor, but he aint amazing either. he would have been an awful choice for joker imo. he would have brought a negative vibe on all the crew.

i don't understand how he even has fan boys. he's such a minor actor in the history of film.

[Miranda Fox]

Yeah, right. Of course you mean them seriously. Don't believe a word she says, Supersebas!

:oldrazz: :oldrazz: :oldrazz:

LIES! :cmad:

[Castlewood]

What is going on in here?!? :wow:

[Miranda Fox]

What is going on in here?!? :wow:

The thread went crazy...which is rather ironic given the subject matter. ;)

[iwalktheline92]

A green trenchcoat?? I think that would look horrible. Joker's only green feature should be his hair, IMO. Leave the trenchcoat purple to compliment his suit.



His eyes are also green.

[ghost_x]

Jokers eyes have been a number of colours dependant on the artist. Personally I've always had a soft spot for the yellow eyes, adds that sense of pure evil, whilst not retracting anything from the flamboyance

[Miranda Fox]

I wonder if they'll give Heath coloured contacts or just leave them as is.

What say you?

[ghost_x]

I think it's very much dependant on the root they go with how the chemicals affect his body, I mean should this chemical go in his eyes surely it would blind him.

I think he will have his normal colours to be honest

[blud_knight]

so has anyone come up with a pic of Ledger as Mr J that does not suck? I'm not talking about the quality of the photoshop work, or the coloring.

[ghost_x]

So what you talking about than? the font? tagline? rotation?

[blud_knight]

Ledger.

[ghost_x]

Yes that's his name, but your post still doesn't make sense, you said and I quote,

'so has anyone come up with a pic of Ledger as Mr J that does not suck? I'm not talking about the quality of the photoshop work, or the coloring.'

To me that sounds like your saying you have yet to have seen a manip of Ledger as the Joker that isn't crap, but your not referring to the quality of the manip or the colouring. I don't understand what you are referring to otherwise

[blud_knight]

I am asking for something. . . anything that will show me why he was chosen to play this character. I did not want to pick on any of the people who put time into their photoshop jobs.

[ghost_x]

Oh ok, so you want to be convinced that he's the right person for the role?

[blud_knight]

Oh ok, so you want to be convinced that he's the right person for the role?
Bingo

[ghost_x]

Personally I think there have been numerous manips posted that have all convinced me that he is right for the role.

Your not a Crispin Glover fan are you?

[blud_knight]

not really. I was hoping for someone else.
http://images.43things.com/profile/223737s160.jpg
still i wish he would come out like this
http://www.holycow.com/joe/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/joker_darknight.jpg

[ghost_x]

Enrique Inglesias?

We havn't seen or heard anything official about his appearance, who's to say he won't look like the Conrad manip

[Doc Holliday]

Is that David Tennant or whatever his name is? The other Dr. Who guy?

And yeah, it'd be sweet to see the Veidt manip come alive, wouldn't it?

[Muziko]

Enrique Inglesias?

We havn't seen or heard anything official about his appearance, who's to say he won't look like the Conrad manip

It's Stuart Townsend. If in fact you were referring to the above-posted black & white pic. Funny... I never thought about him for the role, but he could have probably pulled it off well.

[Doc Holliday]

Stuart Townsend...what is he from?

[ghost_x]

The guy who played a Vampire and Dorian Gray unconvincingly...I think not

[StorminNorman]

not really. I was hoping for someone else.
http://images.43things.com/profile/223737s160.jpg
still i wish he would come out like this
http://www.holycow.com/joe/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/joker_darknight.jpg

I don't see how that first picture looks anything like the Joker.

And while the basic facial structure of Veidt's manip is great - the dark lips ruin it, IMO. If you make the Joker gothic, then you miss out on a bit of his character.

Is that David Tennant or whatever his name is? The other Dr. Who guy?

And yeah, it'd be sweet to see the Veidt manip come alive, wouldn't it?

That is one fine lookin sig' you got there. :marv:

[ghost_x]

I see nothing wrong with dark green lips, and it's not really the Jokers choice what colour the chemicals bleached his skin, it's not detracting from his character as it wasn't out of choice.

[StorminNorman]

I see nothing wrong with dark green lips, and it's not really the Jokers choice what colour the chemicals bleached his skin, it's not detracting from his character as it wasn't out of choice.

I see the red lips as more of a personal choice, lipstick. The Joker should be flamboyant and vain - his looks should be important to him. The lipstick not only adds to his Joker-visage but also gives him a possible weapon (TDKR)

[ghost_x]

I agree with his flamboyance and vanity, but I really feel that both green and red lips meet this criteria

[StorminNorman]

I agree with his flamboyance and vanity, but I really feel that both green and red lips meet this criteria

But see the only way for Green Lips to look good on camera would be for them to be very dark. And then that makes the Joker look waaaaay to Goth for my taste. :csad:

[deathfromabove]

Preface: This is all just one guy's opinon. The strength of these characters is that they mean different things to all of us.

At the start at least, I'd like to see him settling old scores 'Five Way Revenge Style'. I hope this will all be taking place against the backdrop of a lot of mafia tension in wake of Falcone's disappearence and the vacumn that it creates in terms of control. As Joker offs mob capos, whatever families are left (Maroni, Rossi? Viti?) blame each other for the hits, each thinking that the other is responsible for the calling cards, and a full-on mob war breaks out. While this is happening, the Joker becomes less of a priority to Gotham law enforcement and he uses this opening to rob some banks to fund his next operations.

But, he misses the attention and loves the chaos, so he hatches some bigger plans, and calls his shots, but his motivations that aren't clear. Like the mall bombing from the casting sides--I'd like to see him do this without any ransom demand. It's just to create panic. Then, the culmination of it all could be the boat side. Batman will use his detective skills to figure out that the Joker is raising all this hell and set off the mob war, and eventually takes him down.

If the Joker kills off Dawes, which was a popular idea, (and I'm not in the camp that says he should) I hope it's not for the plot purpose of simply "making it personal" between him and Batman. I do, however, think it could serve the story by driving a wedge into the trio of Batman, Dent and Gordon, though. Dent would take it personally because Dawes is a fellow D.A., and he'd think Bats couldn't understand because he wears another face and nobody knows who he's close to. (The irony being that Bruce knew Rachel so well). Dent would get headstrong and pour himself into making a case against Maroni (as a way to strike back at the underworld), and would walk right into the trap that Maroni and Rossi have set up.


i think this is the direction we are headed and the pretty much the way i would do it. jokers five way revenge and the long halloween/dark victory with a dash of killing joke adapted to the parameters that begins established with an original yet respectful take on mr. j.

im pretty excited.

[Dirt Like Me]

jokers five way revenge and the long halloween/dark victory with a dash of killing joke adapted to the parameters that begins established with an original yet respectful take on mr. j.

im pretty excited.

I'm stupidly excited. I feel like I'm a little kid again, waiting for the first Burton Batman to come out. Only now I can spend way too much time online mulling over every bit of info/misinfo that comes our way.

As for the Killing Joke being an influence in the direction of TDK, while there's some elements of that book I like, I really hope we don't see who the Joker was before the accident. (Personally, I never liked the comedian angle anyway).

I'm hoping for more of a Joker ascension story than a Joker origin. I hope the arc is more about how he goes from being a small-timer who looks funny to being the premier Bat-villan.

[Batman jr.]

I'm stupidly excited. I feel like I'm a little kid again, waiting for the first Burton Batman to come out. Only now I can spend way too much time online mulling over every bit of info/misinfo that comes our way.

As for the Killing Joke being an influence in the direction of TDK, while there's some elements of that book I like, I really hope we don't see who the Joker was before the accident. (Personally, I never liked the comedian angle anyway).

I'm hoping for more of a Joker ascension story than a Joker origin. I hope the arc is more about how he goes from being a small-timer who looks funny to being the premier Bat-villan.


I can only agree. And Heath MUST destroy all those idiot criticisms with his performance, but I think he'll do fine! Bring on the first images & trailers!

[blud_knight]

i don't want to see bright red lips. i want him to be true to the early character, dark, moody, scary.

[Spider-Fan83]

zoot suit joker
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/5931/jokersuit2cv1.jpg (http://imageshack.us) lol

[blud_knight]

dear god, i think thats giving me the dry heaves

[JackBauer24]

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b304/JackBauer24/smile-1.jpg

[blud_knight]

dude whats with the eyebrows? Marilyn Manson pencil those in for him?

[JackBauer24]

You got anything positive to add, blud_knight? Or are you just gonna sit there and ****** all night? Because it's already getting boring.

[blud_knight]

You got anything positive to add, blud_knight? Or are you just gonna sit there and ****** all night? Because it's already getting boring.

most of what i say is motivated by fear. I really love these characters. I grew up thinking the joker was the coolest villan in comics. i just want to see him done well, and I'm afraid that Ledger does not have the chops to do it. I really want to like this movie.
On top of that I'm a raging cynic. so its tough. i'll tone it down.

[The Joker]

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b304/JackBauer24/smile-1.jpg

Not bad.

His hair looks like it's painted on, and the eyebrows look wierd. Other than that, I like it.

[breyfogle_rules]

How bout this?

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/7201/jokerqi7.jpg

[d1venom]

I like the idea for the joker but now im afraid that the joker is going to look like one of those.

[blud_knight]

all of these make him look like a clown, not a joker.

[The Joker]

all of these make him look like a clown, not a joker.

Well, which style of Joker is your fav?? Like do you have a particular fav artist's rendition of him??

[blud_knight]

i would love to see him in dark colors to starkly contrast his face. Keep him grotesk, and scary. his laugh should give you chills, and make little kids cry.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c396/otheaftermath/JokerBatman_lg_copy_copy1.jpg
I love how Alex Ross draws him.
http://robertmonroe.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/tegneserie2.JPG
Grant Morrison really captured the spirit too

[Doc Holliday]

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b304/JackBauer24/smile-1.jpg

What's the source image for this one? I might have a go at it. He's got a good smile.

[The Joker]

i would love to see him in dark colors to starkly contrast his face. Keep him grotesk, and scary. his laugh should give you chills, and make little kids cry.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c396/otheaftermath/JokerBatman_lg_copy_copy1.jpg
I love how Alex Ross draws him.

Agreed. Ross draws an awesome Joker. That, and Alan Moore's rendition would be my favs:


http://static.flickr.com/93/242074309_240f3ad03b_o.png

[Compi716]

^Brian Bollard. Allan Moore is the writer.

[Nepenthes]

http://robertmonroe.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/tegneserie2.JPG
Grant Morrison really captured the spirit too

and Dave McKean the artist here




http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/image/Joker_2.jpg

I quite liked the Jokers appearance in DKR, especially the suit. His lips are normal till he puts on make-up and his bone structure is creepy without being exaggerated absurd. Heath Ledgers face is already kind of odd in the same way, especially his forehead.

[blud_knight]

i want to be impressed with him. I want to be proven wrong. believe me I really hope he can do this, i'm just cynical, and so far he has not shown me that he has the stuff. However this might be his travolta "pulp fiction" performance. we'll see
The DKR is one of my favorite joker's good call!

[The Joker]

^Brian Bollard. Allan Moore is the writer.

Whoops! You're right. My bad :o

[blud_knight]

^ i think i was wrong on that one too. thanks for setting me straight.

[Miranda Fox]

i want to be impressed with him. I want to be proven wrong. believe me I really hope he can do this, i'm just cynical, and so far he has not shown me that he has the stuff. However this might be his travolta "pulp fiction" performance. we'll see
The DKR is one of my favorite joker's good call!

So...an Oscar nominated actor isn't good enough for you, but the guy whose only decent role was the one he got immediately fired from (that would be Aragorn in LoTR) meets your standards?

Okay.

[ghost_x]

http://robertmonroe.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/tegneserie2.JPG
Grant Morrison really captured the spirit too

This is not the Joker, the Joker plays his enemies with intelligence and schemes, not nightmarish fears, leave that up to the Scarecrow

[itsthebatman]

So...an Oscar nominated actor isn't good enough for you, but the guy whose only decent role was the one he got immediately fired from (that would be Aragorn in LoTR) meets your standards?

Okay.

Hey, he was really good as Lestat!
http://www.uncut.at/filme/queen-of-the-damned/b05.jpg
Actually... no.

[blud_knight]

So...an Oscar nominated actor isn't good enough for you, but the guy whose only decent role was the one he got immediately fired from (that would be Aragorn in LoTR) meets your standards?

Okay.

all the oscars mean is that you spent a 5h!t load of money on a movie. big frigging deal. they gave eminem an oscar. With that single gesture the oscars lost all credibility.
So are you going to sit here and defend a knights tale? or 10 things i hate about you? Are you going to sit there and defend his robotic acting?
I'm probably wrong about Townsend, but we will never know.

[Miranda Fox]

all the oscars mean is that you spent a 5h!t load of money on a movie. big frigging deal. they gave eminem an oscar. With that single gesture the oscars lost all credibility.
So are you going to sit here and defend a knights tale? or 10 things i hate about you? Are you going to sit there and defend his robotic acting?
I'm probably wrong about Townsend, but we will never know.

Ah, TRUFAX. The last bastion of those who do not have argument so they resort to 'my opinion is a fact' combat style.

Look.

I think Heath is a fine actor. So, yes, I will defend his acting style because he's a very good actor in my opinion. That he's robotic is merely *your* opinion and I would also add those films you've cited are not particularly great examples (I liked A Knight's Tale for what it was, but his attempts at an English accent back then totally failed) of his acting and I think you damn well know that. I would suggest checking out Candy or Lords of Dogtown and, yes, BBM but something tells me I would be wasting my time.

Thanks for playing, though. God knows I do enjoy immature tantrums.

[Dirt Like Me]

they gave eminem an oscar. With that single gesture the oscars lost all credibility.

Eminem won an Oscar for a song. Springsteen and Bob Dylan have won Oscars, too. (Dylan used to tour with his Oscar standing onstage on an amp). I don't think recognizing musicial contributions to movies undermines the credibility of the awards.

Recognizing Nicholas Cage with an Oscar? That undermines the awards. I can't stand that guy.

As for the Ledger hate: nobody knows how he's going to be as the Joker. We all have our hunches and we could debate them until we're blue in the face or July 2008 (whichever comes first). I don't think either side will be able to persuade the other.

I just hope we get a good story that's faithful to the characters and doesn't involve any chemical engineers trying their hand at stand up comedy only to be pulled into a life of crime.

[blud_knight]

Ah, TRUFAX. The last bastion of those who do not have argument so they resort to 'my opinion is a fact' combat style.

Look.

I think Heath is a fine actor. So, yes, I will defend his acting style because he's a very good actor in my opinion. That he's robotic is merely *your* opinion and I would also add those films you've cited are not particularly great examples (I liked A Knight's Tale for what it was, but his attempts at an English accent back then totally failed) of his acting and I think you damn well know that. I would suggest checking out Candy or Lords of Dogtown and, yes, BBM but something tells me I would be wasting my time.

Thanks for playing, though. God knows I do enjoy immature tantrums.

i get the feeling that nothing i could say would be right. So you do like him, good for you. I'm glad your excited about him being the joker. However it is my opinion that he is rubbish. Big deal. I have just as much right to be here as you, and my opinion is just as valid as yours. Get over yourself and move on.

[Miranda Fox]

As for the Ledger hate: nobody knows how he's going to be as the Joker. We all have our hunches and we could debate them until we're blue in the face or July 2008 (whichever comes first). I don't think either side will be able to persuade the other.

I just hope we get a good story that's faithful to the characters and doesn't involve any chemical engineers trying their hand at stand up comedy only to be pulled into a life of crime.

I've never tried to persuade anyone - I just hate blud_knight condescending attitude.

I agree about hoping they get the character right. That's my biggest concern. :up:

[Miranda Fox]

i get the feeling that nothing i could say would be right. So you do like him, good for you. I'm glad your excited about him being the joker. However it is my opinion that he is rubbish. Big deal. I have just as much right to be here as you, and my opinion is just as valid as yours. Get over yourself and move on.

*headdesk*

I'm not trying to tell you to think anything. I do however, wish you would stop being a pillock.

[blud_knight]

fine. truce.

[Miranda Fox]

fine. truce.

:up:

Actually, if it makes you feel any better, the positive people have more to lose in this. Because trust me, if Heath, the Joker or both end up being terrible (and it's a possibility, I've never tried to deny that) you can bet everyone'll be lining up to tell us we were wrong. :woot: :oldrazz:

[blud_knight]

you know the more i think about it the more i have to admit something. I have my hopes way to high. No one can live up to them. I did this to superman returns, spider-man 2, starwars. i need to lighten up. Sorry I was a dick before.
as for the i told you so, I think if he does do a less than stellar job I'll keep quiet. who am I to talk I would have cast someone who made tom cruise look like a better vampire. yeesh

[Dirt Like Me]

I've never tried to persuade anyone - I just hate blud_knight condescending attitude.

I agree about hoping they get the character right. That's my biggest concern. :up:

I know you're not pushing your boy Heath onto anybody. And I think you handled the Glover thing a few pages ago (ugh) better than I would have, too.

It just amazes me that there's still this element of people saying he's not the right man for the job. It's a moot point because Ledger got the job. It's done. The who portion of things is over, so this seems like the point in time where the focus would shift toward what we'd like to see happen.

And in that vein, I find it really interesting how so many different posters interpret the Joker. I'm somewhat curious to know what people's first exposure to the character was. For me it was the 60s TV show in reruns when I was really young, but the first comic I remember reading was the trade of The Dark Knight Returns. I think a lot of it went over my head at the time, but that it really affected my perception of the Joker, because I don't much care for the clowny aspects of him that I've read since then.

Also, I have really limited exposure to B:TAS, which seems to shape a lot of opinions here, too.

[Damiean Dark]

One person who should have been Joker i have relised is Jim Carey he is such a versatile performer in comedy AND dramas i just watched him in Lemony snickitt and he has the screen presence where you have to keep watching him for all those little facial jetures and voice alterations he does.

[blud_knight]

^ i don't think he has the darkness needed. the closest he ever came was cable guy, and that was well... it was what it was. its a good thought and he is a great actor:up: i just don't know if he is the joker.

[Spider-Fan83]

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/1843/heathjoker2br9.jpg (http://imageshack.us])
http://www.moviepoopshoot.com/comics101/images/2004/jan7/joker.jpg

[blud_knight]

i'm wondering if all the colors are really nessicary. Do you think it would work if he had a black jacket, a dark green shirt, and dark purple tie. I think it would look so cool if he was standing in the shaddows and all you could see was his stark white face.

[DieSmiling]

One person who should have been Joker i have relised is Jim Carey he is such a versatile performer in comedy AND dramas i just watched him in Lemony snickitt and he has the screen presence where you have to keep watching him for all those little facial jetures and voice alterations he does.


Why would you wan't Shumacher's Riddler in a Nolan film? Yuck.

[ghost_x]

because Schumachers Riddler was very much Schumacher's creation, and Carrey's talents can't be blamed for it

[itsthebatman]

:up:

Actually, if it makes you feel any better, the positive people have more to lose in this. Because trust me, if Heath, the Joker or both end up being terrible (and it's a possibility, I've never tried to deny that) you can bet everyone'll be lining up to tell us we were wrong. :woot: :oldrazz:

We have the courage of our convictions, my dear Miranda. I yield to noone in my admiration of Heath's acting and my belief in his ability to pull of this most iconic of roles. If we go down in flames, so be it. As you said before....
http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/wp-content/2006/10/_movies.yahoo.com_images_hv_photo_movie_pix_warner _brothers_300_gerard_butler_300b.jpg
'Tonight, Ledger-believers, we dine in hell!'

[Miranda Fox]

We have the courage of our convictions, my dear Miranda. I yield to noone in my admiration of Heath's acting and my belief in his ability to pull of this most iconic of roles. If we go down in flames, so be it. As you said before....
http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/wp-content/2006/10/_movies.yahoo.com_images_hv_photo_movie_pix_warner _brothers_300_gerard_butler_300b.jpg
'Tonight, Ledger-believers, we dine in hell!'

Hell yes! :up: :up: :up:

[DieSmiling]

because Schumachers Riddler was very much Schumacher's creation, and Carrey's talents can't be blamed for it

That's not the point -- why would you want anyone with a prominent role in past Batman movies having a prominent role in this series?

[Paste Pot Pete]

And in that vein, I find it really interesting how so many different posters interpret the Joker. I'm somewhat curious to know what people's first exposure to the character was. For me it was the 60s TV show in reruns when I was really young, but the first comic I remember reading was the trade of The Dark Knight Returns. I think a lot of it went over my head at the time, but that it really affected my perception of the Joker, because I don't much care for the clowny aspects of him that I've read since then.


I was four when Batman(89) came out; Nicholson was definitely my first exposure to Joker.

Even though I was a huge Batman fan (because of the movie, toys and just general hype) I didn't actually "read" any comics (even on the superficial level of, well...looking at them) till I was probably about 6 or 7. And that would've been random issues bought at supermarkets or stuffed in X-Mas stockings, but mostly a copy of "The Greatest Batman Stories Ever Told." Joker appeared here and there, but I was definitely very familiar with the character at that point. Batman: The Animated Series was also premiering around the same time, which was the height of my youth Batmania. Joker was by far my favorite villain, almost to the point where I was sort of disappointed when it wasn't a Joker episode (or a Riddler one). I bought "The Greatest Joker stories ever told" and read that front to back, constantly (a good survey of essential Joker, so I became pretty appreciative of all his incarnations).

I have been a Batman and Joker fan since then, with periods here and there where I cared slighly less (mostly in the dreaded junior high years). Early high school brought comics in general, and specifically Batman (and Joker) back as a major part of my life as I finally started serious collecting. I revisited the animated series and developed a horrendously embarrassing crush on Harley. As one of those dreadful goth teens, I idolized the Joker more than just about any other homicidal maniac. I don't really have a favorite incarnation, though I prefer Denny O'Neil's and Alan Moore's above all. I probably have more Joker merch than any comic character (except for Batman himself), specifically action figures. When a new Batman line comes out, I always buy in this order - Batman, Joker, Harley (if applicable), Scarecrow, and then the rest.

Begins was definitely one of the most anticipated things in my life, and the Joker ending shook my core. I was literally shaking with excitement on the drive home from the theatre. Since then, I had my eyes glued onto the computer screen awaiting announcements of the inevitable Joker-featured sequel. I was a Johnny Depp advocate (though knowing it was majorly doubtful) and was, like most, shocked with the Ledger announcement. But I eagerly anticipate TDK and I'm really looking forward to seeing what he does with it, I have faith in him as an actor and Nolan as a director who's already delivered one stellar Batman movie.

Whew.

[Paste Pot Pete]

That's not the point -- why would you want anyone with a prominent role in past Batman movies having a prominent role in this series?

I'm not advocating Carrey, or anyone else specifically, but if someone was theoretically a perfect choice for a role, I wouldn't pass them up simply because they were in the old series. It's not a good enough reason for them not to get the job. Being perfect for the role should be the only criteria.

[itsthebatman]

Great stuff, Pete. Excellent to read someone's thoughts on the matter. Thanks for sharing!:yay:

[Doc Holliday]

I'm not advocating Carrey, or anyone else specifically, but if someone was theoretically a perfect choice for a role, I wouldn't pass them up simply because they were in the old series. It's not a good enough reason for them not to get the job. Being perfect for the role should be the only criteria.

Good point. Others should be fairly considered. Though, if you think about it, they might not get complete fairness in consideration, because to me, and probably lots of other people my age, Carrey + Batman = Riddler, even if he would make a great Joker, which I know he would.

[Paste Pot Pete]

Great stuff, Pete. Excellent to read someone's thoughts on the matter. Thanks for sharing!:yay:

For a minute there, it felt like I was attending Joker-hohics Anonymous. :woot:

[blud_knight]

am i the only one who is wondering how the hell buterbean did that.

[itsthebatman]

Nope, how did he do that? I PM'ed Hunter to sort it out.

[Paste Pot Pete]

Good point. Others should be fairly considered. Though, if you think about it, they might not get complete fairness in consideration, because to me, and probably lots of other people my age, Carrey + Batman = Riddler, even if he would make a great Joker, which I know he would.

Very true. I just find it very funny that whenever someone makes a suggestion like that, the immediate replies are always "But he already played so and so" and never anything to do with their actual acting ability or potential for the character.

BTW, buterbean...wow. That was like the messageboard equivalent to a suicide bombing.

[Miranda Fox]

Very true. I just find it very funny that whenever someone makes a suggestion like that, the immediate replies are always "But he already played so and so" and never anything to do with their actual acting ability or potential for the character.

BTW, buterbean...wow. That was like the messageboard equivalent to a suicide bombing.

What happened? *nosey*

[Doc Holliday]

As regwec said in another thread, he posted a picture of a "'lady' sucking some chap's love-pump."

[Miranda Fox]

As regwec said in another thread, he posted a picture of a "'lady' sucking some chap's love-pump."

Ahhhh.

He could at least vary his porno pics. How lazy.

[blud_knight]

miranda. Buterbean posted a very conservative picture with a really complimentary caption. Except the exact opposite of that

[Paste Pot Pete]

Ahhhh.

He could at least vary his porno pics. How lazy.

Seriously. If you're going to go out like that, go out with a Dirty Sanchez, or a Cleveland Steamer. Something!

[blud_knight]

^ i'm not sure whats worse. the fact that you know what those are, or the fact that i don't.

[Paste Pot Pete]

^ i'm not sure whats worse. the fact that you know what those are, or the fact that i don't.

"Ignorance is bliss. Don't burden yourself with the secrets of scary people."

[Castlewood]

Good point. Others should be fairly considered. Though, if you think about it, they might not get complete fairness in consideration, because to me, and probably lots of other people my age, Carrey + Batman = Riddler, even if he would make a great Joker, which I know he would.

I don't think Carrey would do a good Joker, because he's so damn obvious for the role. Ledger is perfect, because he's a total left-field choice, and we don't know what the hell to expect.

With Jim Carrey, we know EXACTLY how he'd do it.... he'd do it like Jim Carrey.
I think he'd be too much "himself" in the role, because he's NATURALLY the Joker in real life. It would be like saying "Jim Carrey starring as.... Jim Carrey!!"

[The Joker]

Carey would be a horrible choice for the Joker.

[Dirt Like Me]

For a minute there, it felt like I was attending Joker-hohics Anonymous. :woot:

Well, admitting it is the first step. Second is realizing that Nolan is a greater power. The ten steps after that get a little weird...

Anyway, I can relate to a lot of your Joker history. 1989 was a big year: I was the Joker for Halloween (still my favorite costume ever) and I think I had the action figure of Bob the Goon for like three months before I could find a Joker or Batman in stores for him to kick. Unfortunately, for me BTAS fell right in the transition from Junior High to High School, which means I missed out. I'll check out the DVDs someday, though.

Basically, for me the two things that I loved when I was ten and still love now (with interest fluctuations here and there) are the Red Sox and Batman. And I was absolutely floored when Begins turned out to be a movie that appealed to my adult sensibilities but remained true to the characters I grew up reading. It set a pretty high bar for TDK, I hope I'm not expecting too much.

[DieSmiling]

I'm not advocating Carrey, or anyone else specifically, but if someone was theoretically a perfect choice for a role, I wouldn't pass them up simply because they were in the old series. It's not a good enough reason for them not to get the job. Being perfect for the role should be the only criteria.

I wouldn't rule anyone out entirely, but it's definitely a big turnoff for me. I've heard people suggest Keaton... Would you really want the old Batman as the Joker? Ugh...

Of course, the number one reason I wouldn't want Carrey is because I hate him. I think it was said best by Temple Fugit...


With Jim Carrey, we know EXACTLY how he'd do it.... he'd do it like Jim Carrey.
I think he'd be too much "himself" in the role, because he's NATURALLY the Joker in real life. It would be like saying "Jim Carrey starring as.... Jim Carrey!!"

Plus I want a younger Joker. I really think Heath is perfect in terms of ability, age, and look. I just hope he pulls it off as well as I think he can.

Also, for the record, I'd say my "early, defining" image of Joker is Mark Hamil doing Joker's voice for TAS. I LOVE that Joker. Take that, make it live action (and more sinister/evil/murderous) and you have my ideal Joker.

[ghost_x]

That's not the point -- why would you want anyone with a prominent role in past Batman movies having a prominent role in this series?

Does it really matter? if Carrey was the actor that could portray the definitive Joker I couldn't care less if he was in an older interpretation of Batman, worry about the current movies, enjoy the older ones.

[Muziko]

"Ignorance is bliss. Don't burden yourself with the secrets of scary people."

LMFAO!!!!

[blud_knight]

you know the more i think about it as long as Mr. J does not look like Cesar Romero with his porn star mustrash I'll probably be all set

[DieSmiling]

Does it really matter? if Carrey was the actor that could portray the definitive Joker I couldn't care less if he was in an older interpretation of Batman, worry about the current movies, enjoy the older ones.

A) Read the post right above yours.

B) I care. It would be weird.

C) Jim Carrey sucks.

[regwec]

Unfortunately, for me BTAS fell right in the transition from Junior High to High School, which means I missed out. I'll check out the DVDs someday, though.

*cough* youtube *cough*

[ghost_x]

A) Read the post right above yours.

B) I care. It would be weird.

C) Jim Carrey sucks.

A) I did

B) It would only be weird if he played the same character again

C) Your opinion sucks

[Akimych]

A) I did

B) It would only be weird if he played the same character again

C) Your opinion sucks

A) +
B) +
C) +

[blud_knight]

"Ignorance is bliss. Don't burden yourself with the secrets of scary people."
okay this is driving me nuts. what the hell is that from, and why does it sound like hugh laurie in my head?
never mind i just remembered

[LostSon88]

Its from Batman Begins...Falcone said it to Flass in the limo in the docks before Batman makes his appearance.

[Paste Pot Pete]

okay this is driving me nuts. what the hell is that from, and why does it sound like hugh laurie in my head?
never mind i just remembered

Maybe it's because my sig is from Laurie. :woot:

[Doc Holliday]

you know the more i think about it as long as Mr. J does not look like Cesar Romero with his porn star mustrash I'll probably be all set

Aww, what's wrong with Cesar?

And you know, if Rynan sees that post, he's gonna make a picture.

[itsthebatman]

edit

[blud_knight]

Aww, what's wrong with Cesar?

And you know, if Rynan sees that post, he's gonna make a picture.

for what that show was cesar was fun. i just don't know if i can take another painted out stache.
I kind of wish they had put frank gorshin in as the joker in that show. he was so bipolar and nuts as the riddler.

[itsthebatman]

He made the Riddler though. He was a minor enough character in the comics before that, and Gorshin greatly increased his popularity. And carrey obviously based his performance on Franks. They were all great villains, Cesar, Burgess, Frank, and 'the only true Catwoman; Lee Merriweather, Julie Newmar, and Eartha Kitt'

[blud_knight]

and why doesn't the new batman dance? Doesn't anyone remember the batoosie?

[itsthebatman]

batman11 does.
'Your secret is safe with me, Superman!'

[ghost_x]

Batman is mutlitalented, he sung as well in JLA

[blud_knight]

"and I didn't need molded plastic to improve my physique... pure west."

[itsthebatman]

'I did call.... twenty minutes ago.'

[blud_knight]

i think i'm out of lines from that episode. I'm going to have to watch that one now.

[Dirt Like Me]

*cough* youtube *cough*


:up:

And there goes a big chunk of my weekend...

[itsthebatman]

i think i'm out of lines from that episode. I'm going to have to watch that one now.

'And I said... kiss my asphalt!'
'I'll take your money, but I won't plough your drive.'

[mr. belding]

possible new info on the Joker's smile, from another board I post on (the original poster works for DC):

So there's going to be a Joker: Year One book that will come out at the same time as the film. Apparently it was planned to be its own separate book but since the writing/art team are a bit slow, they're planning on it coming out at the same time. I'm not sure if it's exactly tied to the film but some pages just came in and they look pretty amazing. One thing I noticed about the Joker that I'm not sure if they're going to use in the film or not is that his "grin" is created because the sides of his mouth are actually sliced...kinda like in Pan's Labyrinth. It's really creepy and it actually looks pretty good. No, the Joker didn't look a whole lot like Ledger at all.

[blud_knight]

i heard that when johnny depp was being considered for the role he wanted to do that as part of the role

[regwec]

One thing I noticed about the Joker that I'm not sure if they're going to use in the film or not is that his "grin" is created because the sides of his mouth are actually sliced...

Oh, Christ, not this again.

[mr. belding]

Oh, Christ, not this again.

i don't know, this theory has never shown up in the comics before but apparently it's going to be showing up right around TKD-time.. it's at least kind of suspicious

[Closerframe]

I think thats pretty cool idea to have a carved smile. It would make him look twisted and terrifying. But it wont happen because Ledger said they'll be focusing more on his eyes then his smile.

[blud_knight]

I think thats pretty cool idea to have a carved smile. It would make him look twisted and terrifying. But it wont happen because Ledger said they'll be focusing more on his eyes then his smile.

right, i forgot they said that. I like that idea. One thing they always said about hitler, napoleon, and Charles Manson was that they could really capture you with their eyes

[Lpilgrim]

i dunno guys.......

i've looked at a few of the manips some of you have done, and some of them are really good. however, i really don't see nolan going with the bright bright green hair for the joker. the way i tend to see him done in the movie is a very very dark green. like almost black with a greenish tint to it. but hey i could be wrong. not sure if anyone else has brought this issue up but im just throwing my opinion out.

[itsthebatman]

i dunno guys.......

i've looked at a few of the manips some of you have done, and some of them are really good. however, i really don't see nolan going with the bright bright green hair for the joker. the way i tend to see him done in the movie is a very very dark green. like almost black with a greenish tint to it. but hey i could be wrong. not sure if anyone else has brought this issue up but im just throwing my opinion out.

This colour hair is what I'd like. Not too bright, but still Joker colour.
http://www.comictreadmill.com/images/JokerSmile.jpg

[blud_knight]

I was thinking lank, dark green, and oily. this guy is out of his mind. i doubt he eats, showers, sleeps, or does anything he is suposed to when he should. he should be creepy, under nourished, dehydrated, and freakishly strong.

[Rynan]

he should be creepy, under nourished, dehydrated, and freakishly strong.

How about we forget the homeless Adrien Brody filthy Joker and go for the Bob Kane suave, clever, well built deadly Joker?

Also, you made fun of The Romero, so I must scar you.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v513/Rynan/Joker%20taunt/Cesarsecret3.jpg
You know you want a piece of the Cesar.:cwink:

[blud_knight]

ron jeremy as the joker. yeesh that one is going to stay with me for a while.
and I'll have you know i was not making fun of cesar, just his mustache.

[Rynan]

and I'll have you know i was not making fun of cesar, just his mustache.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v513/Rynan/Joker%20taunt/Jealous.jpg

[blud_knight]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v513/Rynan/Joker%20taunt/Jealous.jpg

yes.:csad:

[metroILman]

Originally posted on BOF.com

Monday, April 13, 2007 - 6:42 AM CENTRAL TIME: This comes from our source "Slappy The White Clown Prince." It comes from him secondhand, so take with a grain of salt. I can't reveal how he acquired this info, but I will say the has provided BOF was solid news in the past. According to him:

* The Joker will have gray skin with lot's of scarring.

* The Joker's costume will be raggedy (This may confirm the info BOF got a long while ago saying that his costume will look as if it was something he put together one piece at a time).

* He's going to look damn scary, not clownish.

There is also some scuttlebutt that Warner Bros. will reveal The Joker soon -- like this summer -- to head off any bootleg pictures of Heath Ledger in costume that could pop up online.

[ultimatefan]

I´m okay with gray skin, it will look a bit more subtle, but also dramatic and scary. Scarring makes sense. I think it´d be wise of WB to show a pic ahead of Internet scoopers.

[GreenKToo]

I'm as anxious to see how the joker looks, as I was to see the new superman suit in S.R., and thats saying alot.

[Nepenthes]

Grey skin I don't mind but severe scarring and raggedy clothes are definitely not cool.

Actually it's so out of character I doubt this is true. I'm inclined to think that Nolan wouldn't misunderstand the Joker this way, so pass the salt.

[regwec]

Sounds like an awful synthesis of all the weakest ideas espoused by the least insightful message boarders for the last three years.

[Cmn.WRX>Mustang]

^yup. lets hope this is b.s.

[hannya]

You guys need to go and check BOF right away.
As far as I'm concerned it's excellent news (if accurate).
Some of you die-hards will need putting on suicide watch...

[Hunter Rider]

You guys need to go and check BOF right away.
As far as I'm concerned it's excellent news (if accurate).
Some of you die-hards will need putting on suicide watch...

What is the news ?