The Official Mighty Avengers Thread

[TheCorpulent1]

You're such a drama queen about that. She'll be back in a year or two at most. :o

[Dread]

While normally I would believe that Mark Millar would make for a proper hatchet man for Joe Q's scheme to destroy any marriage that took place before his tenure, the Reed/Sue dynamic has been maintained so long and so strongly that such separations never last. Nearly every member of the original Four has either left the team or been presumed dead for stretches of time and they always return. Reed was presumed dead for years during the 90's, after all (during the Hyperstorm mess, when Sue had "merged" with her Malice persona, dressed in a swimsuit from the Psylocke collection, and acted like a B****).

So I doubt any "death of Invisible Woman" story will last longer than a few years.

Really, if Millar wanted to shock anyone about the franchise, he'd allow Franklin to hit puberty after 40 years and suck it up.

I wouldn't mind DnA on FANTASTIC FOUR, actually; although 3 ongoing titles may be a stretch for them. They certainly have a handle on space stuff and the Four if anything should maintain some connections to that world.

[moraldeficiency]

http://www.marvel.com/news/comicstories.6002.Preview~colon~_Avengers~slash~In vaders_%236

^awesome, love the sentry crying fire.

[SUPER MARVELMAN]

Hell yea I love how Simin is like "Seconds? he beat the Sentry in seconds" Like in Mighty Avengers how he tells Ms. Marvel "I'm just as powerful as he is". I'm happy they have beeen using WonderMan more eversince HoM, but why dont they start really showing how powerful he is.

[Anubis]

That's a bunch of bulls**t.

[BrianWilly]

Wow they really have to stop using the Sentry as the barometer of power in the MU.

[SUPER MARVELMAN]

Whats ********?

[moraldeficiency]

That's a bunch of bulls**t.

awesome ********, it's nice to see the sentry crying something other than tears for once.

[Dread]

I can imagine that being part of his Marvel Handbook Power-Set Biography:

"Sentry has the ability to shed tears of other elements, including fire. He is vulnerable to things such as his connection to the Void, anyone turning into the Void, or stepping outside of the house in broad daylight. Has ability to retain respect in superhero community despite losing 9 out of every 10 battles he engages in (which is a worse win/loss ratio than NFL Superpro)."

[BrianWilly]

I wanna see him cry blood next time!

[Dread]

Quite frankly, if I had to choose between either him or Blue Marvel as the "retconned Silver Age Superman clone", Blue Marvel wins by a mile even after one issue. :p

[moraldeficiency]

I wanna see him cry blood next time!

It's on my christmas wish list.

[Franklin Richards]

So Captain Marvel is dead and we can't get Sentry to commit suicide?


That's like Stevie Ray Vaughn being dead and Justin Timberlake living to be 92.



:thing: :doom: :thing:

[BrianWilly]

On the other hand I'm really not all that upset about Sentry jobbing to the Human Torch, of all people. The Torch is Marvel's original, first, real Superman. The Sentry is...not that.

[fifthfiend]

"Seconds? That's all it took to take out the Sentry?"

I mean yeah honestly, isn't that pretty much all it ever takes to take out the Sentry?

[moraldeficiency]

If this is part of them pulling back on the absurd powah of a kagillion suns thing then it's been long overdue. If it's just ross deciding to write a story with power levels that made sense, I'm down with that too.

[BrianWilly]

Is it really overdue? 'Cause I think that's all that they've been dueing with him for years now.

[fifthfiend]

Yeah, "Power of a million suns, except he can't use any of it or else he'll remember he's a psychopathic serial killer and go murder Europe again" has been his shtick since forever now.

[SUPER MARVELMAN]

They just need to send him out to space, maybe after WoK.

[Mr. Green]

Planet Sentry.

[moraldeficiency]

Is it really overdue? 'Cause I think that's all that they've been dueing with him for years now.

Yes, yes it is. You forget all the NA and MA stuff.

[Varient]

Quite frankly, if I had to choose between either him or Blue Marvel as the "retconned Silver Age Superman clone", Blue Marvel wins by a mile even after one issue. :p

I read that.

Mixed feelings on it,.... Waiting to see what they do with it.

He stepped down on being a hero to quiet social unrest,....
Showing a powerset in Kal-El's range w/o the Sentry's multitude of weaknesses.

Can Marvel really do this?

I don't think so.

V.

[BrianWilly]

Yes, yes it is. You forget all the NA and MA stuff.I don't really remember much about him while he was in NA, other than that one arc where he was...hmm, crying uselessly in his head while Emma Frost talked about diarrhea. But his emasculation was well and done by the time MA rolled around; he had trouble merely lifting the helicarrier. In fact, he couldn't do it at all, and Carol and the others had to help him.

[moraldeficiency]

I don't really remember much about him while he was in NA, other than that one arc where he was...hmm, crying uselessly in his head while Emma Frost talked about diarrhea. But his emasculation was well and done by the time MA rolled around; he had trouble merely lifting the helicarrier.

Haven't read MA so I'm not sure, though I know he has the power now to bring back people from the dead which is good cause his powerset wasn't really diverse enough before. What I remember from the NA would be the start with him as the most powerful superhero, then the sentry arc (while he was just a whiney *****, the void [which is probably the real reynolds anyway] took on basically everyone easily) and then you had him stomping around all the inhumans at once in the civil war crossover (oh woe is me I can kill everyone what do I do?). So yeah I'm tired of him having the power to have all the powers, I'm tired of people thinking the power of even one sun isn't something so phenominally awesome that anyone with that level of power would be a galaxy killer, and I'm tired of people thinking he is in any way cool.

[Franklin Richards]

Johnny Storm has always had the power of a small star and if he ever let go he could destroy the planet.


Isn't that enough? :D


:ff: :ff: :ff:

[Mr. Green]

He's let go before though, hasn't he?

[SUPER MARVELMAN]

sentry is cool.

[Franklin Richards]

He's let go before though, hasn't he?

He's only fully let go when Sue's been there to contain him. Or he's been in outer space or the Negative Zone.

He let loose during Secret Wars. He didn't destroy the planet but he overheated Ultron. Which is quite a feat considering adamantium dissipates heat.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Captain Useless]

Planet Sentry.

That would be nice.

[Ahura Mazda]

He's only fully let go when Sue's been there to contain him. Or he's been in outer space or the Negative Zone.

He let loose during Secret Wars. He didn't destroy the planet but he overheated Ultron. Which is quite a feat considering adamantium dissipates heat.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

I would disagree given he has gone Nova before and burned out supposedly in his own comic against the Hulk. It may be bad writing but it is canon just like the Hulk getting strangled by a snake.

[moraldeficiency]

Johnny would beat a snake.

[CaptainCanada]

Slott interview at Newsarama (http://www.newsarama.com/comics/120805-Mighty-Slott.html) and the later MyCup 'o Joe with preview art (http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=92159514&blogID=454215738).

Looks good so far.

[SUPER MARVELMAN]

It is gonna be odd to see Stature confront SW, since the Witch is the reason her father died in the first place. Also Vision her former lover was ripped to shreds because SW's powers caused She-Hulk to literally Hulk out, crazy ish.

It's hinted that Ironman wont be part of MA aftre the first arc.

It also looks like Strak Tower is now part of the Governments Initiative, and it looks as if the Avengers are getting a new headquarters. I'm guessing it's gonna be more like the Mansion not the Tower.

[CaptainCanada]

They hint at the opposite, it would seem, since Slott points out that he's only wanted in America and the team may move elsewhere.

[stillanerd]

Doesn't anyone find it a little bit odd that, as a way of celebrating the Wasp's life and impact on the Avengers, the Secret Invasion: Requim issue is going to reprint the moment where she gets physically attacked by her husband?

[SUPER MARVELMAN]

I don't think he said they'll be moving out of country, he said they'd have a new headquarters and that they are gonna protect Earth not just America. Slott also said Ironman might only be there for the first arc. Ironman has 2 books of his own to deal with his outlaw status.

[SUPER MARVELMAN]

Well there doing that because Slott said he doesn't want to forget or undo that Hank did that. It's to remind us of mistakes he's made so now when he gets his comeback it makes it seem that much better.

[CaptainCanada]

I don't think he said they'll be moving out of country, he said they'd have a new headquarters and that they are gonna protect Earth not just America. Slott also said Ironman might only be there for the first arc. Ironman has 2 books of his own to deal with his outlaw status.
1 book.

DS: Iron Man is at least going to be in our first adventure. Will he stay on and be a member (or leader) of this Mighty Avengers? You'll have to wait and see.

NRAMA: With Iron Man being shunned by the government...

DS: ... in America.

The interviewer said that Iron Man was in trouble with the government, and Slott pointed out that was only in America, and hinted the team would be operating internationally; that certainly would seem a big hint that they may be based elsewhere, which forgoes the whole "registration" and "on the run from the law" bits, and would also keep them out of the way of the other Avengers teams.

[SUPER MARVELMAN]

Yes if they are outlaws that Stark can still be on the team. Also I didn't know they were cancelling IM Director of Shield, it makes sense since he is no longer the director of Shield and they are disbanded.

[SUPER MARVELMAN]

So Statk is in outlaw only In America, nowhere else. Exactly.

[TheCorpulent1]

1 book.


The interviewer said that Iron Man was in trouble with the government, and Slott pointed out that was only in America, and hinted the team would be operating internationally; that certainly would seem a big hint that they may be based elsewhere, which forgoes the whole "registration" and "on the run from the law" bits, and would also keep them out of the way of the other Avengers teams.
It'd be awesome if they could be based in Asgard, since it's technically not American soil. But Thor stated pretty clearly that he wants nothing to do with Tony.

[CaptainCanada]

Quite apart from Thor's inhospitality, that would be a pretty big intrusion of Thor's own book.

[SUPER MARVELMAN]

So are the Dark Avengers gonna become New Yorks Initiative team?

What if the Mighty Avengers make the Savage Land their new Base?

[Vanguard07]

That'd be pretty out of the way dont you think? One would assume that they'd want to be near stuff when it happens. The middle of antarctica isnt really near anything.

If they couldnt be in New York then they should at least be in another major population center.

[SUPER MARVELMAN]

Looking at the roster, it's mixed with registered heroes, unregistered heroes, and 2 heroes that where the cause of HoM and WWH. The Savage Land is very far away, but with the roster they have they cant be in America, it would have to be an actual hideout, that could be what they do. But if they were an underground team of Avengers wouldn't they just team up with the New Avengers? So that leads me to believe the MA will not be located on the main continent of the US.

[Vanguard07]

Didnt the Avengers use to have their own island back in the day? They could relocate to Avenger island.

[SUPER MARVELMAN]

Where was it located?

[Eros]

So Statk is in outlaw only In America, nowhere else. Exactly.

Being the most wanted man in America, especially wanted by the U.S. Goverment is like being the most wanted man in the world. Not many countries are not willing to help the american goverment extradite a wanted man hideing in their country. Hell to name one of many examples, in the "Incredible Hulk" Movie, Bruce Banner was hideing in south America, and the U.S. goverment was still allowed to go after him with full military force.

[Vanguard07]

I have no idea. At a guess i'd say somewhere off the west coast of the United States.

[Dread]

Slott interview at Newsarama (http://www.newsarama.com/comics/120805-Mighty-Slott.html) and the later MyCup 'o Joe with preview art (http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=92159514&blogID=454215738).

Looks good so far.

I must say I love Hank Pym's new costume.

Slott stated he will try to redeem Wands and Hank in so many words, and that is good.

The roster is confirmed as U.S. Agent, Pym, Scarlet Witch, Hercules, Jocasta, Vision 2.0, Stature, with Iron Man at some point and probably Hulk, too.

Looking good so far. I wonder if I will have to start reading INCREDIBLE HERC at some point now between this and AGENTS OF ATLAS. I'd have to buy about 3 trades worth of material to catch up by this stage.

[kguillou]

Yeah me too, i gotta say Mighty Avengers looks like its going to be the best avengers book, although i'm curious to see the new Cap on the new avengers as well. The Dark avengers look...meh, i'll prolly buy the first issue for collector's sake and then just follow Mighty.

[Dread]

With Marvel seeking to make more ongoings $3.99, I may have to start being more of a discriminating audience. MIGHTY AVENGERS is a lock since Slott will be on soon. I have no desire for reading more Bendis books. It may be high time I bid NEW AVENGERS farewell.

[SUPER MARVELMAN]

Incredible Herc is great, you should pick it up no matter what.

[CaptainCanada]

Everyone should read Incredible Herc; particularly you, who so often expresses a desire for fun comics.

[Franklin Richards]

With Marvel seeking to make more ongoings $3.99, I may have to start being more of a discriminating audience. MIGHTY AVENGERS is a lock since Slott will be on soon. I have no desire for reading more Bendis books. It may be high time I bid NEW AVENGERS farewell.

Millar and Hitch finally hit their stride with FF. I'm wondering what's next for our quartet. You might add the World's Greatest Comic to your pull box.


I'm wondering if Dark Reign will have any effect on the mag since Millar ignored SI the entire time. I guess it's catchup time.


:ff: :ff: :ff:

[TheCorpulent1]

With Marvel seeking to make more ongoings $3.99, I may have to start being more of a discriminating audience. MIGHTY AVENGERS is a lock since Slott will be on soon. I have no desire for reading more Bendis books. It may be high time I bid NEW AVENGERS farewell.
Just drop it already. What's with all this wishy-washy "may be time" stuff? You hate the book. Drop it before it drives you insane and we have to mercy-kill you. :o

[Mr. Green]

But Dread wants to know what happens to baby Cage and he wants to see Clint become Hawkeye again and explore his renewed relationship with Mockingbird.

[TheCorpulent1]

Silly Dread. That way lies only despair.

[Dread]

Incredible Herc is great, you should pick it up no matter what.

Everyone should read Incredible Herc; particularly you, who so often expresses a desire for fun comics.

INCREDIBLE HERC may be the next comic I invest in catching up with. The dilemma is money is tight and catching up at this point requires buying about 3 TPB's and a few back issues, which is a bit of a hefty investment this month for me. I have to buy the WWH issues with the Renegades and then the year or so after that. Otherwise I won't know what is going on and wikipedia summaries aren't enough for me. I like getting context and references. It's a slow way of hopping on books but when I finally do, it is the path most worth it for me. Granted, it has kept me off a lot of decent books, like FLASH during it's prime.

Millar and Hitch finally hit their stride with FF. I'm wondering what's next for our quartet. You might add the World's Greatest Comic to your pull box.


I'm wondering if Dark Reign will have any effect on the mag since Millar ignored SI the entire time. I guess it's catchup time.


:ff: :ff: :ff:

Doubtful. Yeah, I still will be getting FF.

Just drop it already. What's with all this wishy-washy "may be time" stuff? You hate the book. Drop it before it drives you insane and we have to mercy-kill you. :o

NA #47 was actually kind of good. That did irritate me, though.

But Dread wants to know what happens to baby Cage and he wants to see Clint become Hawkeye again and explore his renewed relationship with Mockingbird.

Mockingbird's revival doesn't work.

[Upset Spideyfan]

Secret Invasion is over?

*Wanders slowly back in.

So? Slott on MA? That's awesome.

[kguillou]

Man i wish Bendis would stop experimenting with new artists, while i understand the need to be innovative, from NA 47 its plainly clear bendis works best with certain artists like maleev, gaydos, and even finch. I think he should stick to his niche, cause him and Billy Tan have no chemistry whatsoever. I would love to see Finch back on NA.

[Blader5489]

Man i wish Bendis would stop experimenting with new artists, while i understand the need to be innovative, from NA 47 its plainly clear bendis works best with certain artists like maleev, gaydos, and even finch. I think he should stick to his niche, cause him and Billy Tan have no chemistry whatsoever. I would love to see Finch back on NA.

I don't think Bendis and Finch work well together anymore either. Didn't they have a falling out or something?

[kguillou]

Did they? When?

[TheCorpulent1]

Maybe Bendis claimed his head was shinier than Finch's or something.

[SUPER MARVELMAN]

So who has the most poerful line-up?

Dark Avengers

IronPatriot (Osborn)
Sentry
Ares
Marvel Boy
Moonstone (Ms. Marvel)
Bullseye (Hawkeye)
Venom (Spider-Man)
Daken (Wolverine)

or

Mighty Avengers

Ironman
Hank Pym
Jocasta
Hulk
Hercules
Vision
Scarlet Witch
Stature
USAgent

[Kevin]

I'm really excited about Wanda, but is it really her? There are so many questions that I can't even write down if it is her.

[masteryoda]

I don't think Bendis and Finch work well together anymore either. Didn't they have a falling out or something?

I thought that was Cho. I think it was because of Cho's chronic lateness because he was too busy playing video games.

[TheCorpulent1]

Cho sounds like a man after Joe Madureira's heart.
I'm really excited about Wanda, but is it really her? There are so many questions that I can't even write down if it is her.
The solicitations for the first arc make it sound like the Mighty Avengers are all about reforming a former teammate who's had a run of bad luck lately. They may be talking about Wanda, in which case your question would basically be the foundation for the new Mighty Avengers' first story.

[cerealkiller182]

Slott interviewed with Newsarama said it really is Wanda.

I liked Initiative, so Ill definitely check this out.

[Upset Spideyfan]

Cho sounds like a man after Joe Madureira's heart.

The solicitations for the first arc make it sound like the Mighty Avengers are all about reforming a former teammate who's had a run of bad luck lately. They may be talking about Wanda, in which case your question would basically be the foundation for the new Mighty Avengers' first story.

Yeah but at least Cho apologized.

[Mr. Green]

Man i wish Bendis would stop experimenting with new artists, while i understand the need to be innovative, from NA 47 its plainly clear bendis works best with certain artists like maleev, gaydos, and even finch. I think he should stick to his niche, cause him and Billy Tan have no chemistry whatsoever. I would love to see Finch back on NA.
He has said in the past that he switches up artists a lot on the Avengers book because it's harder for artists to keep a book like Avengers on schedule than other books because there are so many characters and so much to draw.

I think Tan's work has been pretty good though. Can't wait for Bendis and Deodato to reunite. That guy is awesome.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah but at least Cho apologized.
Well, the alternative is apparently going into video game design, failing miserably, and falling completely under the radar. I'd have apologized, too.

[Upset Spideyfan]

He could draw porno mags as an alternative.

[Dread]

Man i wish Bendis would stop experimenting with new artists, while i understand the need to be innovative, from NA 47 its plainly clear bendis works best with certain artists like maleev, gaydos, and even finch. I think he should stick to his niche, cause him and Billy Tan have no chemistry whatsoever. I would love to see Finch back on NA.

Bendis hasn't stuck to his niches in ages. Why would he start now? He hasn't had to. Marvel Yes-Man's him and his NA sells over 100k a month.


The solicitations for the first arc make it sound like the Mighty Avengers are all about reforming a former teammate who's had a run of bad luck lately. They may be talking about Wanda, in which case your question would basically be the foundation for the new Mighty Avengers' first story.

Cho at least draws sexier ladies than Joe Mad. There, I said it.

That said, a first arc trying to redeem Wanda sounds like a good call. She certainly needs it. Maybe that is the theme of the new Mighty Avengers; trying to redeem past troubled members, rather than let them fester. That might explain why Hulk is back under their radar. After all, maybe if the original Avengers hadn't so despised the Hulk that he leaped off in disgust (and never even considered rejoining them, even when he was The Professor), he may not have rampaged in cities for so long.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, there do seem to be several characters on the Mighty Avengers who've had questionable periods in their history.

[Dread]

Yeah, there do seem to be several characters on the Mighty Avengers who've had questionable periods in their history.

True. Wanda was turned into a reality-warping hysterical female. The Hulk is usually a rampaging anti-hero. Despite years of heroism, Hank Pym is best known for beating his wife (one slap in the old days; now confused with a full body beating like Drago vs. Rocky in ROCKY IV, thanks Hitch). U.S. Agent of course was chosen to be a more aggressive fill in for Steve Rogers and has his own history. Hercules is often half buzzed and reckless. And of course Iron Man is the poster child of flawed heroes. Jocasta's the most normal one. :p

[Blader5489]

True. Wanda was turned into a reality-warping hysterical female. The Hulk is usually a rampaging anti-hero. Despite years of heroism, Hank Pym is best known for beating his wife (one slap in the old days; now confused with a full body beating like Drago vs. Rocky in ROCKY IV, thanks Hitch). U.S. Agent of course was chosen to be a more aggressive fill in for Steve Rogers and has his own history. Hercules is often half buzzed and reckless. And of course Iron Man is the poster child of flawed heroes. Jocasta's the most normal one. :p

Yeah, just one slap, what's the harm in that? :whatever:

[Dread]

Yeah, just one slap, what's the harm in that? :whatever:

There is a difference between verbal abuse and one slap out of anger vs. the impression in AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE that Hank pummeled Janet into a coma, as happened in ULTIMATES.

Spider-Man once slapped MJ out of anger in the 90's. He hasn't become the poster child for abusive spouses. In fact, I would bet half the editorial staff doesn't even know about it. And good heavens, the sorts of sexist lingo that Mr. Fantastic would tell Sue during all those years...

I'm not poo-pooing it. I am saying that since THE ULTIMATES, Pym's spousal abuse has been "re-highlighted" in the Marvel Universe to the point that for many, that is all he did (aside for building Ultron, of course). That said, Slott usually has tried to use Pym well, so I will be interested in his approach here. I already like the new costume design.

[cerealkiller182]

There is a difference between verbal abuse and one slap out of anger vs. the impression in AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE that Hank pummeled Janet into a coma, as happened in ULTIMATES.

Spider-Man once slapped MJ out of anger in the 90's. He hasn't become the poster child for abusive spouses. In fact, I would bet half the editorial staff doesn't even know about it. And good heavens, the sorts of sexist lingo that Mr. Fantastic would tell Sue during all those years...

I'm not poo-pooing it. I am saying that since THE ULTIMATES, Pym's spousal abuse has been "re-highlighted" in the Marvel Universe to the point that for many, that is all he did (aside for building Ultron, of course). That said, Slott usually has tried to use Pym well, so I will be interested in his approach here. I already like the new costume design.

me 2

[Mr. Green]

There is a difference between verbal abuse and one slap out of anger vs. the impression in AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE that Hank pummeled Janet into a coma, as happened in ULTIMATES.

Spider-Man once slapped MJ out of anger in the 90's. He hasn't become the poster child for abusive spouses. In fact, I would bet half the editorial staff doesn't even know about it. And good heavens, the sorts of sexist lingo that Mr. Fantastic would tell Sue during all those years...

I'm not poo-pooing it. I am saying that since THE ULTIMATES, Pym's spousal abuse has been "re-highlighted" in the Marvel Universe to the point that for many, that is all he did (aside for building Ultron, of course). That said, Slott usually has tried to use Pym well, so I will be interested in his approach here. I already like the new costume design.
I don't see why people freak out when somebody talks about Pym being a wife-beater. He beat his wife. So what? That's awesome! In fact, I think that's one of the best things about the character.

[fifthfiend]

I don't see why people freak out when somebody talks about Pym being a wife-beater. He beat his wife. So what? That's awesome! In fact, I think that's one of the best things about the character.

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=16075941&postcount=910

[Mr. Green]

Did I mention it turns me on when people blankly stare at me? Because it does.

[CaptainStacy]

There is a difference between verbal abuse and one slap out of anger vs. the impression in AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE that Hank pummeled Janet into a coma, as happened in ULTIMATES.

Spider-Man once slapped MJ out of anger in the 90's. He hasn't become the poster child for abusive spouses. In fact, I would bet half the editorial staff doesn't even know about it. And good heavens, the sorts of sexist lingo that Mr. Fantastic would tell Sue during all those years...

I'm not poo-pooing it. I am saying that since THE ULTIMATES, Pym's spousal abuse has been "re-highlighted" in the Marvel Universe to the point that for many, that is all he did (aside for building Ultron, of course).

Hear, hear! :applaud

[Dread]

Hear, hear! :applaud

Thanks.

Anyway, without having to worry about Pym being a Skrull again (for a while), I do expect Slott to deal with this aspect of Pym, as it has been hammered at us, while at the same time getting him back to being well known as a superhero again.

Pluses if he regains his Doctor Pym power levels, where he not only shrank and grew himself, but all tons of items and equipment. It was very handy and dynamic.

[CaptainStacy]

So who has the most poerful line-up?

Dark Avengers

IronPatriot (Osborn)
Sentry
Ares
Marvel Boy
Moonstone (Ms. Marvel)
Bullseye (Hawkeye)
Venom (Spider-Man)
Daken (Wolverine)

or

Mighty Avengers

Ironman
Hank Pym
Jocasta
Hulk
Hercules
Vision
Scarlet Witch
Stature
USAgent

My first thought is Dark Avengers might have a slight edge...

Then again; any team with both The Hulk AND Hercules (not to mention Scarlet Witch) on it is going to be tough to beat....Mighty Avengers also has two of the most brilliant minds in the Marvel Universe (assuming Stark is still Iron Man)...

[kguillou]

Mighty Avengers just looks plain awesome simple and plain. New Avengers and Dark dont even really interest me at this point, the only slight interest i have is to see the new Cap on the NA but other than that NA doesnt look too appealing especially since Tan's artwork looks really crappy.

[Dread]

Mighty, but I prefer teams that are well written with good characters than ones where they just are shoved together to fit a whim or agenda. :p

[batnkevlar]

Is that Dark Avengers lineup confirmed?

[Colossal Spoons]

I don't see that DA team functioning well at all.

[Kevin]

Mighty Avengers just looks plain awesome simple and plain. New Avengers and Dark dont even really interest me at this point, the only slight interest i have is to see the new Cap on the NA but other than that NA doesnt look too appealing especially since Tan's artwork looks really crappy.
I completely agree, except with the Tan comment. What it comes down to is that I don't know how much of Bendis i can take. I'm not saying he's a bad writer, it's just that I've been reading NA since the first issue, my first book with him. I've simple had enough. I'm interested in the NA line up, but I can't in all honestly waste $4 on a comic book that leaves me wanting more... because the issue itself was empty of anything enjoyable.

[fifthfiend]

You should read Incredible Hercules, which will leave you wanting more because the issue itself is full of a badass god punching **** in the face.:up:

[Mr. Green]

Now that I can agree with. :up:

[Mr. Green]

Now that I can agree with. :up:

[Dread]

Like I said, I will once I can spare the $40-$60 to buy the last 3 trades/HC's and back issues to catch up. I never go into a series blind.

[fifthfiend]

Mr. Green double-agrees with that.

As well he should.:up:

[TwilightPro101]

Liking the cast thus far. Curious to see how they all connect into the equation.

[hippie_hunter]

There is a difference between verbal abuse and one slap out of anger vs. the impression in AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE that Hank pummeled Janet into a coma, as happened in ULTIMATES.

Spider-Man once slapped MJ out of anger in the 90's. He hasn't become the poster child for abusive spouses. In fact, I would bet half the editorial staff doesn't even know about it. And good heavens, the sorts of sexist lingo that Mr. Fantastic would tell Sue during all those years...

I'm not poo-pooing it. I am saying that since THE ULTIMATES, Pym's spousal abuse has been "re-highlighted" in the Marvel Universe to the point that for many, that is all he did (aside for building Ultron, of course). That said, Slott usually has tried to use Pym well, so I will be interested in his approach here. I already like the new costume design.

The solicitation for Secret Invasion: Requiem

An important stepping stone to the big shake-up in MIGHTY AVENGERS by the new creative team of Dan Slott and Khoi Pham, featuring a new name and identity for one of Marvel's classic characters! In this 8-page story after the tragic events of SECRET INVASION #8, two of Earth's mightiest heroes reflect on the life and times of a fallen comrade.
Plus over 40 pages reprinting two classic tales from Marvel’s Silver and Bronze ages: the Wasp’s first appearance (TALES TO ASTONISH #44) and the infamous Hank-hitting-Jan story (AVENGERS #213) — presented with all-new, modern coloring.

[spiderfan970]

Hahaha, wow, that's kind of ridiculous.

[Colossal Spoons]

Can't wait to read it. Hope somebody gets bodyslammed or dropkicked lol

[TheCorpulent1]

Meh, Hank was crazy at the time so it doesn't count. If Wanda can be redeemed for altering reality across the whole universe when she was crazy and Spider-Man can be redeemed for hitting MJ when he was pissed off and Magneto can be redeemed for terrorist activities while he was perfectly clear-headed, Hank can be forgiven for one silly backhand while he was crazy.

[Vanguard07]

Yeah I dont particularly like Hank but i've never bought into the whole wife-beater stigma. I find it pretty annoying actually.

It's ridiculous that everyone is so unwilling to let it go.

[TheCorpulent1]

Not everyone, just writers over the past five years or so. It came up from time to time before then, but it was treated as something Hank had worked to overcome and dealt with already.

[Vanguard07]

which is how it should be. First and foremost Hank is a brilliant man and world renowned scientist. Secondly he's a hero who's saved countless lives many many times. Thirdly he's a man with a history of mental instability that for the most part he's able to deal with and overcome.

Thats how i've always seen him.

[Franklin Richards]

Not everyone, just writers over the past five years or so. It came up from time to time before then, but it was treated as something Hank had worked to overcome and dealt with already.

And that's why I like Egghead. His torture of Hank and involvement in screwing him over at every turn was relentless. Asking him to help his own step daughter and then turning on him. The trial stuff. When he was hanging out with the Masters of Evil and then finally his retribution.

My point is that he went through alot during the original run of that storyline and prolly should have ended there.


Other than the occasional lovers' quarrel.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Blader5489]

Like I said, I will once I can spare the $40-$60 to buy the last 3 trades/HC's and back issues to catch up. I never go into a series blind.

Wait, what? There have only been 12 issues released so far, how is that going to cost you $40-60?

[Mr. Green]

Because he also buys crack.

[chris moore]

which is how it should be. First and foremost Hank is a brilliant man and world renowned scientist. Secondly he's a hero who's saved countless lives many many times. Thirdly he's a man with a history of mental instability that for the most part he's able to deal with and overcome.

Thats how i've always seen him.

See, now, I always thought that the story in an annual(?) a few years ago that dealt with three personas of Hank (Pym - scientist, Giantman - hero, Yellowjacket - ego) and integrated them into one unconflicted man. Seems to me that his mental instability can be (and kinda was) explained by the shunting of mass back and forth to another dimension as energy. Over time, here and there, elements of his psyche were also shunted as energy along with the mass. This kind of crosswired his personality and resulted in the instability.

[Vanguard07]

I vaguely remember that. And I also vaguely remember them resolving said mental instability. So either way he should be perfectly sane and forgivable now.

[TheCorpulent1]

See, now, I always thought that the story in an annual(?) a few years ago that dealt with three personas of Hank (Pym - scientist, Giantman - hero, Yellowjacket - ego) and integrated them into one unconflicted man. Seems to me that his mental instability can be (and kinda was) explained by the shunting of mass back and forth to another dimension as energy. Over time, here and there, elements of his psyche were also shunted as energy along with the mass. This kind of crosswired his personality and resulted in the instability.
That's kind of a cool explanation. I ought to read that. Any chance you remember the number or year for this alleged annual?

[Franklin Richards]

I don't remember which one it is either but while I was looking through my Avengers Annuals I found this lineup.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/AuntPetunia/Fantastic%20Four/Comic%20Scans/avengersEvolineup.jpg


Looks familiar. :D


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[cerealkiller182]

hmmmm interesting find. Beast pulling double duty again could be cool

[fifthfiend]

Meh, Hank was crazy at the time so it doesn't count. If Wanda can be redeemed for altering reality across the whole universe when she was crazy and Spider-Man can be redeemed for hitting MJ when he was pissed off and Magneto can be redeemed for terrorist activities while he was perfectly clear-headed, Hank can be forgiven for one silly backhand while he was crazy.

I think at some point Marvel collectively decided he was going to be the scapegoat for all of the above. Like in the 90s when Washington DC decided that Clinton was the only guy in history to ever get his knob polished.

As long as they ritually **** all over Hank once every couple of months, they don't have to think about Peter Parker: Wifebeater or Magneto Bin Laden or any of the awful **** done by characters they otherwise want to like.

[BrianWilly]

Was he definitively just crazy at the time? Is that the canon? I've read through that story a few times and I get the mental breakdown part of it, but then I've read about all kinds of justifiretcons about that moment ranging from mind control to robot possession or whatever.

[Dread]

That "Evolutionary War" pic merely shows that Dan Slott meant what he said about a "very Avengers roster".

What happened to Wanda and Pym is very similar. In 2004, both Bendis and Millar started to break into the 616 Marvel universe after gaining critical and commercial success in Ultimate, big time. Sure, Bendis already had DAREDEVIL and ALIAS and Millar other books, but this was when they were chosen as A-List talents to bring their "ideas" to the line.

Unfortunately, those "ideas" meant assuming things from Ultimate were similar to 616 and dismissing years of character growth that proved inconvenient. Bendis used a WEST COAST AVENGERS story from some 10-15 years prior as justification for what he did to Wanda, but the fact he chose to ignore was that Wanda had moved on from the loss of her children. It did pain her and she did "go crazy" for a bit. But she healed and was stronger for it. But, that was inconvenient, so without warning she was conkers again. Hank was similar. While he and Janet sometimes had a strained or tense relationship, that ugly moment in their history had been moved past. But all that mattered in 2004 was THE ULTIMATES where Millar adopted that moment to make more "modern" and of course made it more extreme, more violent, and more vulgar. A slap in the 70's and some yelling; mutilating her with chemicals and having ants beat her into a coma in the 2000's. It is either proof of modern storytelling or a shocking example of how much more fetishized violence has become in the 21st century as opposed to the 70's-80's, the tail end of the Silver Age. Again, this growth was now inconvenient, so that moment was redefined and brought into focus.

Characters are what you make them, or choose to unmake them. Both Hank and Wanda are due a chance to get back on track.

[TheCorpulent1]

I would kill to see Beast on the roster again.

Not people or anything important, mind you. Just little stuff like bugs or germs or babies.
Was he definitively just crazy at the time? Is that the canon? I've read through that story a few times and I get the mental breakdown part of it, but then I've read about all kinds of justifiretcons about that moment ranging from mind control to robot possession or whatever.
I've only read the original story and Avengers Forever, and both of those seem to indicate he was in the midst of a mental breakdown with a hint of MPD (since, in Avengers Forever, he didn't even recognize that he was the same man as the Giant-Man version of Pym).

[Dread]

Anyone wonder if Wanda and Pym could pair up based on that regard? Both would need to redeem themselves, who better to understand than each other?

Of course, in between awkward allusions at the teenage Vision 2.0. :p

[TheCorpulent1]

I hope not. It's too pat. "Hey, let's throw these people together just 'cause they're both crazies. What better matchmaking criterion is there than a history of mental troubles?"

[Dread]

Well, so is naming Hank "Wasp". :o

But, I do see where you are coming from. At the very least, it should make interactions interesting and I genuinely look forward to this run, moreso than I have for a mainstream Avenger title in a good half decade, seriously.

[cerealkiller182]

Is Hank going by Wasp now? I now his suit looks more liek Wasps' but he could still go by Yellowjaket.

[Dread]

Is Hank going by Wasp now? I now his suit looks more liek Wasps' but he could still go by Yellowjaket.

It's unknown. We have been debating it.

The consensus is that him going by Doctor Pym would be ideal, Yellowjacket would be fine, and "Wasp" would be womanly. ;)

[cerealkiller182]

Really? It came down to him not having a codename being ideal? I wouldnt expect that. Although Ive seen them shout first names on the battlefield a lot anyway. I prefer Yellowjacket. Its what hes been going for and still fits the suit. Its not like Clint being called Hawkeye in the Ronin suit.

[GNR]

Like I said, I will once I can spare the $40-$60 to buy the last 3 trades/HC's and back issues to catch up. I never go into a series blind.

well how about you stop buying New Avengers (which you hate),written by your nemesis Bendis,and start buying Hercules?

dropping a crappy book for a good book makes sense right?

[Eros]

Hank Pyms mental instability is the only thing that ever made the character somewhat interesting. And even with all that, he still hovers in the shadows of Cap,Thor, and Iron Man and many many other heroes. Its a sad tale really, He just never caught on with readers and fans like his iconic friends did.

[JustABill]

There are only two X-Men I've ever said would fit on the Avengers well. One made it on (Beast). The other got stuck getting married to a former Avengers backstabber (Storm).

[Sloth7d]

What about Nate Grey? I always felt he was too powerful to be an X-man, and when his solo series started to crumble, I had hoped he would've ended up on the Avengers instead of dead.

[JustABill]

Eh, too many Greys would running around at that point. :o

[Colossal Spoons]

What about Nate Grey? I always felt he was too powerful to be an X-man, and when his solo series started to crumble, I had hoped he would've ended up on the Avengers instead of dead.

If Nate's too powerful to be an X-Man, the same should apply to the Avengers too lol. People like Nate and Sentry belong ins space or protecting Earth solo.

[Mr. Green]

I wonder how Wanda is going to come back. How she will be un-crazied I mean.

[chris moore]

That's kind of a cool explanation. I ought to read that. Any chance you remember the number or year for this alleged annual?

Avengers Annual 2001 I think

[TheCorpulent1]

If Nate's too powerful to be an X-Man, the same should apply to the Avengers too lol. People like Nate and Sentry belong ins space or protecting Earth solo.
Right, it's not like the Avengers have ever had any super-powerful members. :dry:

I'd love to see Nate as an Avenger, but literally everything about him screams "X-character." His look, his powers, his ties to the most convoluted family history in the Marvel universe, etc.

[JewishHobbit]

I wish they'd bring Nate back. They were hinting at it for a while a few years back but nothing came of it. I thought for sure it was going to happen during the Onslaught Reborn thing. He could be the "Ion" of the Nova Corps :)

[Ahura Mazda]

Well one thing is whenever they had big powerhouses like Thor they were written at below their true power level as to make the win a result of teamwork. They will probably still do the same.

[TheCorpulent1]

I wish they'd bring Nate back. They were hinting at it for a while a few years back but nothing came of it. I thought for sure it was going to happen during the Onslaught Reborn thing. He could be the "Ion" of the Nova Corps :)
Or he could just be himself. Rich is kind of the Ion of the Nova Corps, being Nova Prime and all. I could dig Nate in a purely cosmic setting, though. Maybe slap the Phoenix Force on him.

[Vanguard07]

Nate wasnt ever actually a member of the X-men was he? And I agree they should bring him back. He was cool and his friendship with Spiderman was cool.

[Colossal Spoons]

Right, it's not like the Avengers have ever had any super-powerful members. :dry:

I'd love to see Nate as an Avenger, but literally everything about him screams "X-character." His look, his powers, his ties to the most convoluted family history in the Marvel universe, etc.

Yeah, and you see how well Sentry's being handled now :o I didn't start reading Avengers comics till Disassembled so I can only comment on that point forward.

[fifthfiend]

Maybe slap the Phoenix Force on him.

That seems like it would be leaping up from "rather overpowered" to "z0MG OVERPOWERED". I mean like "Hey I'm not busy today, I'll go kill Galactus. And then, Death!" overpowered.

[Colossal Spoons]

You'd think, but the P-Force isn't always a super power-up. Rachel Summers has it now and she still hasn't done anything ridiculous yet.

[Dread]

I never cared for X-Man. His whole premise was "alternate reality Cable, only as a TEENAGER!" He seemed like a character made for the 90's and once that decade ended, so did he, kind of (his series lingered into 2001, where he died for the universe, or something. The Universe was relieved).

It will be a chore to get Wanda back into form, although I do not believe the fact that she was deliberately behind M-Day is public knowledge. Even many superheroes don't know it. X-FACTOR had an arc where a few figures, for instance, thought the government created M-Day. Considering they also created Sentinels, it wasn't a bad theory. First they would have to find her, then got her to not automatically sleep with someone while repeating the last few words of whatever someone told her (Bendis lingo).

But, hey, Wanda's been stable longer than she has been conkers, so that is in her favor with Slott. He's old school.

[cerealkiller182]

You'd think, but the P-Force isn't always a super power-up. Rachel Summers has it now and she still hasn't done anything ridiculous yet.

shes only got a little bit though doesnt she?

[Colossal Spoons]

Idk how they're quantifying that. Her b/f Korvus' sword has some too. The Phoenix Force gets around :o

[Vanguard07]

Seeing as how it's the manifestation of all life past present and future I'm not really surprised that it's pretty far spread.

[Colossal Spoons]

I think there was usually only one Phoenix Force wielder in each universe. The last time we saw the White Hot Room, all the people were from other universes. I could be wrong though.

[TheCorpulent1]

Nate wasnt ever actually a member of the X-men was he? And I agree they should bring him back. He was cool and his friendship with Spiderman was cool.
He was a member of the X-Men. In the Astonishing X-Men 3-issue mini-series from back during the big Apocalypse/The Twelve build-up, Nate was on a team with Cyclops, Jean, Cable, Archangel, and Wolverine (who turned out to be a Skrull because the real Wolverine had been turned into Apocalypse's Horseman Death):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/thecorpulent1/300px-Astonishing_x-men_vol2_1.jpg
Yeah, and you see how well Sentry's being handled now :o I didn't start reading Avengers comics till Disassembled so I can only comment on that point forward.
You haven't read any Avengers comics. :o
That seems like it would be leaping up from "rather overpowered" to "z0MG OVERPOWERED". I mean like "Hey I'm not busy today, I'll go kill Galactus. And then, Death!" overpowered.
Well, his comic always made it clear that his powers would kill him. The Phoenix Force could just be there to preserve his life. As someone else noted, different people get the Phoenix Force in different quantities, kind of. Rachel Summers is a total pussy with it.
I never cared for X-Man. His whole premise was "alternate reality Cable, only as a TEENAGER!" He seemed like a character made for the 90's and once that decade ended, so did he, kind of (his series lingered into 2001, where he died for the universe, or something. The Universe was relieved).
Have you ever read any of his comics? Yeah, he had a stupid concept but the quality of his stories was usually pretty good. He started as a silly Cable variant but became a pretty solid character in his own right.

[Franklin Richards]

I liked his interactions with Franklin during Onslaught. His thought bubbles were great.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Ockham]

Well, his comic always made it clear that his powers would kill him. The Phoenix Force could just be there to preserve his life. As someone else noted, different people get the Phoenix Force in different quantities, kind of. Rachel Summers is a total pussy with it.


Actually, Rachel *Summers* was a total badass with the PF, pwning Galactus, one-shotting Juggernaut, humiliating heralds, annihilating Omega Sentinels etc. The weak shadow/imitation of her whom Cable brought back from the time-stream, called Rachel *Grey*, is a total pussy with it though ;)

[cdk]

I Loved the sentry.... in 2001

[Mr. Green]

Ya know who needs to be on this team? Shulkie! Her book's getting canceled and she's been on the Avengers in the past... Better than no Shulkie at all and it would make more sense than He-Hulk being on the team.

[TheCorpulent1]

She-Hulk would be cool, but she's been very involved on the big scene anyway simply because of her connections to the Avengers, the FF, the Hulk, and SHIELD. I think she'll continue to appear all over the place even without her own series. Plus she's with the Lady Liberators now. They may be something of a non-team, but the core is clearly She-Hulk, Valkyrie, Thundra, and the Invisible Woman.

[Colossal Spoons]

You haven't read any Avengers comics. :o


Haha, so I hear

[chris moore]

Preview for Mighty Avengers #20 is up at IGN. Looks like they're making good on some Hank focus and development already - much obliged!

[TheCorpulent1]

Link, please?

[Mr. Green]

She-Hulk would be cool, but she's been very involved on the big scene anyway simply because of her connections to the Avengers, the FF, the Hulk, and SHIELD. I think she'll continue to appear all over the place even without her own series. Plus she's with the Lady Liberators now. They may be something of a non-team, but the core is clearly She-Hulk, Valkyrie, Thundra, and the Invisible Woman.
Yeah, that's true. I'm pretty happy that she's been in Hulk a descent amount since WWH.

I just recently picked up the "Single Green Female" trade by Slott. Him and Bobillo were so great together. I really can't believe how good it is. And NOW it's getting canceled? DAMMIT!

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, Slott's run on She-Hulk was a thing of beauty. At least he got a full run on She-Hulk and got to leave on his own terms. You think it sucks that She-Hulk's getting canceled now, imagine how much it sucked for those of us who loved Slott's Thing and had it pulled out from under us right when Slott was hitting his stride.

[Mr. Green]

Yeah, I was actually one of the people who pulled Dan Slott's Thing as well (lol!). It was a bummer Thing only got 8 issues in. It was awesome.

However, IMO, it was not nearly as good as She-Hulk.

[Colossal Spoons]

I was sad to see his Thing go too

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, I was actually one of the people who pulled Dan Slott's Thing as well (lol!). It was a bummer Thing only got 8 issues in. It was awesome.

However, IMO, it was not nearly as good as She-Hulk.
It wasn't as original as She-Hulk, but it was a lot of fun. I miss it.

[JustABill]

Anybody know where to get a Wallpaper version of the Mighty Avengers roster? Slott's version that is. :o

[Dread]

I used to complain about losing THE THING for ages.



Have you ever read any of his comics? Yeah, he had a stupid concept but the quality of his stories was usually pretty good. He started as a silly Cable variant but became a pretty solid character in his own right.

I never read any X-MAN. I didn't really care enough to.

[moraldeficiency]

I liked nate in his little spider-man crossover thing with morbius, deliah (was that the kid's name?) and electro. I'm not sure if his character was like that in his main stuff but he seems pretty cool.

[TheCorpulent1]

He was basically like any everyman hero. He's in there with Spider-Man, Kyle Rayner, Gravity, and all the others cut from that cloth. Not exactly original, but it's a solid formula and the writers applied it to Nate pretty well.

[Vanguard07]

edit nvm

[Dread]

I could never get past the ridiculous origin or "I am so 90's" design for X-MAN I guess. Besides, didn't he die to save the universe? His story seemed complete to me. Omnipotent mutant psychics in the X-Universe are a dime a dozen. Or at least they were in the 90's.

Of course, I am one of the few who didn't worship at the alter of AGE OF APOCALYPSE back then, either.

[Vanguard07]

There was some cool stuff to come out of The Age of Apocalypse but for the most part I wasn't really a fan either.

[Spade]

The Mighty Avengers #20 preview looks pretty good. I guess I'll get it, even though Slott coming onto this title is my major boon.

[kguillou]

Ok it's official guys Slott's Mighty avengers are going to rock. I think im gonna drop New Avengers for this: http://creative.myspacecdn.com/groups/_mcb/mycupojoe/week035/img/MIGHTAVN023_cov.jpg

[Dread]

Indeed, Slott on MIGHTY AVENGERS looks to be great. He needs one A-List success to make up for being tainted on Post-OMD ASM, and this looks to be it. It's about time, Mr. Slott, that you got onto this book. Godspeed. :up:

[TheCorpulent1]

As much as I'm looking forward to Herc and Pym, I think I'm looking forward to a regular dose of Vision, Jr. again most of all.

[Kevin]

It's like, at this point, f*** a Young Avengers book. Just find somewhere to put Eli, Kate , and Billy.:heart:

[Franklin Richards]

Remember when the Scarlet Witch was the nicest person around? When she cared for the Vision and her children? When she looked out for her brother when no one would? When she was a beautiful, witty woman who loved her friends and teammates?


Would be nice to read about that woman again.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[TheCorpulent1]

Hopefully we will.

[kguillou]

I wonder how Hulk's gona fit on this team? Especially since at the end of WWH, he exclaimed to all the marvel heroes that "I'll HATE YOU FOREVER!".

[TheCorpulent1]

Maybe he'll be the more intelligent Planet Hulk version and he'll be all, "I'm here to keep Stark in line so he doesn't f*** anyone else over the way he did me."

[Vanguard07]

I still think Stature has no damn place on that roster. A) she's too young and inexperienced (No minor should ever be on the worlds mightiest heroes) and B) she's completely redundant. What does she offer that isn't already done much better by Herc, Hulk or Hank Pym?

That said I'm still psyched for this title. Other than stature the roster's solid and Dan Slot's one of my favorites.

[TheCorpulent1]

Maybe Hank's taking her under his wing since he had a big hand in how she got into the hero game? He was buddies with her dad, so there's the "take care of your friend's kid after he dies aspect," plus two other size-changers he cared about got killed in his absence, so there's that. Maybe he wants to keep her close and make sure his particles don't lead to anyone else's grave. Plus, Vision, Jr. probably wants her there, what with the fact that they're f***ing and all.

[Vanguard07]

... isn't she like 14? I find that quite disturbing.

[Franklin Richards]

Having two size changers is tradition for the Avengers. And who knows if The New Wasp can grow or not. Seems like that grow/shrink formula didn't work well when the real Hank Pym was synthesizing it and they can't trust the Skrull formula. So a Giant Girl and and Mr. Wasp are acceptable.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[kguillou]

I'm thinking maybe Hank Pym wont be "giant man" anymore, maybe he's gona be the new Wasp, meaning that he'll only shrink to minuscule size, that would make Stature's presence more relevant.

[TheCorpulent1]

Or maybe he won't personally change size at all. That was his Avengers West Coast schtick, which many of us have been wishing he could go back to--he stayed the same size (I think because the strain of changing size had made his body too weak to continue doing it or something) but kept miniaturized equipment on him that he could enlarge and use on a moment's notice. I'd definitely dig Hank as a purely science-based hero, like the Avengers' version of Reed Richards.

[Vanguard07]

Why would they really ever need a giant person when they've got two of the three greatest heavy hitters to ever walk the earth? I can understand how useful a shrinking person could be when it comes to stealth or getting into things you don't want to break
but what possible need could there be for a big person? Shade? Are they out of sunblock?

It makes no sense.

[TheCorpulent1]

Getting the cereal off that pesky top shelf. :up:

[MightyAvenge]

I wonder how Hulk's gona fit on this team? Especially since at the end of WWH, he exclaimed to all the marvel heroes that "I'll HATE YOU FOREVER!".


Well the actual Hulk that said "he would hate them forever" was WWHulk, and WWHulk hasn't made an appearance since WWH. Gray Hulk, Dumb Hulk, they all have their own personalities. Joe Fixit breaks thumbs and wears suits, that doesn't mean Dumb Hulk is gonna do the same, and vis-versa. I'm sure WWHulk is gonna pop out one-day, but their is no gaurantees. Look at Prof. Hulk we haven't seen him forever, but it's possible we could see him eventually. So if WWHulk ever does pop out again, I'm sure his attitude towards most of the heroes will be "F-Off".

[Vanguard07]

Getting the cereal off that pesky top shelf. :up:


Who keeps putting it back up there? My guess is Cable's little girl.

[TheCorpulent1]

Well the actual Hulk that said "he would hate them forever" was WWHulk, and WWHulk hasn't made an appearance since WWH. Gray Hulk, Dumb Hulk, they all have their own personalities. Joe Fixit breaks thumbs and wears suits, that doesn't mean Dumb Hulk is gonna do the same, and vis-versa. I'm sure WWHulk is gonna pop out one-day, but their is no gaurantees. Look at Prof. Hulk we haven't seen him forever, but it's possible we could see him eventually. So if WWHulk ever does pop out again, I'm sure his attitude towards most of the heroes will be "F-Off".
If it were the Professor Hulk on the Mighty Avengers, Slott would win my undying love even more than he already has done. Imagine the Hulk taking a break from punching people in the face occasionally to cook up some genius countermeasure with Pym. Dear lord, my mouth is going dry with excitement just thinking about it...

[MightyAvenge]

Why would they really ever need a giant person when they've got two of the three greatest heavy hitters to ever walk the earth? I can understand how useful a shrinking person could be when it comes to stealth or getting into things you don't want to break
but what possible need could there be for a big person? Shade? Are they out of sunblock?

It makes no sense.

Thats like saying "why is Wonder Woman in the JLA, we already have Superman isn't she kinda redudndant" So what if a couple characters share similar powers. If thats how DC and Marvel created teams than technically Hawkeye and Captain America or any other base-level extraordinary human shouldn't be on the same team. Whats the point in having Hank Pym, Tony Stark, and Bruce Banner on the same team, they're all brains right, so by your logic, only one of them should be on the team. By your logic, Vision and Jocasta shouldn't be on the same team. When it comes down to it the MA roster is awesome but it is pretty redundant. I'm not complaining, I'm just making an observation.

Brains - Hank Pym, Tony Stark, Bruce Banner, Vision, Jocasta
Muscle - Hulk, Hercules, Stature, Hank Pym, Ironman
Size-Changers - Hank Pym, Stature
Robots/Tech powers - Jocasta, Vision, Ironman
Youngins - Vision, Stature
Heroes gone bad - Hulk, Scarlet Witch

Scarlet Witch is the Only one that is not somewhat redundent, Hank Pym makes a lot of characters redundent, but how uncool would the team be if you cancelled out all of the heroes/characters that Hank or Vision or Herc make redundent. Here's the non redudndent MA roster...

Hank Pym - Brain, Size changer
Hercules - Muscle
Jocasta - Robot/tech

There you go

[Spade]

I wish Slott got to write an intelligent Hulk. The current status quo leaves us with the old standby which, while it can be great, is not as commanding a Hulk incarnation as we used to have.

[Vanguard07]

If it were the Professor Hulk on the Mighty Avengers, Slott would win my undying love even more than he already has done. Imagine the Hulk taking a break from punching people in the face occasionally to cook up some genius countermeasure with Pym. Dear lord, my mouth is going dry with excitement just thinking about it...

As with most things in life. Beer is the solution my friend.

[TheCorpulent1]

I wish Slott got to write an intelligent Hulk. The current status quo leaves us with the old standby which, while it can be great, is not as commanding a Hulk incarnation as we used to have.
The Professor Hulk really is my ideal Hulk. If he were the only Hulk who ever emerged, I'd be a happy man.

[Vanguard07]

Thats liek saying "why is Wonder Woman in the JLA, we already have Superman isn't she kinda redudndant" So what if a couple characters share similar powers.

Everyone knows that Wonder woman is there to be eye candy and to shut the feminists up.
Also I don't mind having one back-up (especially when they're not exact copies and can serve dual purposes ie: Thor also flies and has range). You never know when you need one extra of something important. But having Herc, Hulk AND Stature is too redundant.

[Spade]

The Professor Hulk really is my ideal Hulk. If he were the only Hulk who ever emerged, I'd be a happy man.

I like the Professor, but the recent one was more to my liking. I was not a fan of the Savage Banner angle.

[kguillou]

I hope i'm wrong, but i have a feeling Hulk is gonna be like the Sentry, a sort of "break glass in case of emergency" type of character. Hulk will come in to save the day when they really need him but he wont be a regular member. Again i hope i'm wrong.

[Vanguard07]

I like the Professor, but the recent one was more to my liking. I was not a fan of the Savage Banner angle.

I actually thought the savage banner angle was pretty great. A) because it gave the Hulk an interesting weakness and B) because crazy people are hilarious and the savage banner was full on hobo-crazy.

[TheCorpulent1]

I like the Professor, but the recent one was more to my liking. I was not a fan of the Savage Banner angle.
Right, that sucked. But it was hardly ever a factor, really. The Professor was plenty strong enough without getting super-angry.

[Dread]

I would also prefer Professor Hulk, and a WCA-power level Hank Pym. Who isn't named He-Wasp.

Stature on the roster is fine and it is a good way to honor her father.

The rest of the YA show up in some script leaks so I wonder if learning that her kids are alive helps to get Wanda back to being a stable heroine again.

[Vanguard07]

I would also prefer Professor Hulk, and a WCA-power level Hank Pym. Who isn't named He-Wasp.

Stature on the roster is fine and it is a good way to honor her father.

The rest of the YA show up in some script leaks so I wonder if learning that her kids are alive helps to get Wanda back to being a stable heroine again.


Haha I love that He-Wasp is catching on. It's like a virus and you're all infected.

[MightyAvenge]

Everyone knows that Wonder woman is there to be eye candy and to shut the feminists up.
Also I don't mind having one back-up (especially when they're not exact copies and can serve dual purposes ie: Thor also flies and has range). You never know when you need one extra of something important. But having Herc, Hulk AND Stature is too redundant.

Herc and Hulk are redundent, Stature is not. She isn't just muscle, she can shrink and grow size, Herc and Hulk are basically the same power-set, just different personalities.

[MightyAvenge]

I would also prefer Professor Hulk, and a WCA-power level Hank Pym. Who isn't named He-Wasp.

Stature on the roster is fine and it is a good way to honor her father.

The rest of the YA show up in some script leaks so I wonder if learning that her kids are alive helps to get Wanda back to being a stable heroine again.


Good idea about Wiccan and Speed inspiring Wanda to be "good" again.

[Vanguard07]

Herc and Hulk are redundent, Stature is not. She isn't just muscle, she can shrink and grow size, Herc and Hulk are basically the same power-set, just different personalities.


You're forgetting Hercules' vast superhuman manliness and womanizing powers. An admittedly small but important difference.

Also Hank Pym is bound to be hands down better at size manipulation than she is and he's also a genius. Stature isn't. What could she possibly conceivably accomplish that the other members of the team cant?

[TheCorpulent1]

She can make Vision, Jr. stay a member. :)

[Vanguard07]

Pfft Wanda can control reality. She can make Vision JR do whatever she wants. Also he's a machine and Tony's the machine god. Vision's not going anywhere if the Avengers really want to make him stay.

[MightyAvenge]

You're forgetting Hercules' vast superhuman manliness and womanizing powers. An admittedly small but important difference.

Also Hank Pym is bound to be hands down better at size manipulation than she is and he's also a genius. Stature isn't. What could she possibly conceivably accomplish that the other members of the team cant?


Their is not really anything that she can do better than anybody else on the team, but like Corp pointed out, Hank is like an Uncle to Cassie, since Disassembled, 3 Size-Changers with strong connections to Hank have died. She's basically their casue Hank is on the team, simple as that. Marvel probably Stature on the team so the YA can have some place to actually make appearances. Stature is the gateway for story-lines involving Scarlet Witch and her children, SW and Vision/Cassie, etc... My point is that, powers being redudndent doesnt matter unless your whole team consists of Size-Changers or Bruisers, etc...

[TheCorpulent1]

Pfft Wanda can control reality. She can make Vision JR do whatever she wants. Also he's a machine and Tony's the machine god. Vision's not going anywhere if the Avengers really want to make him stay.
Tony's not a machine god when the machine's a thousand years more advanced than anything he knows how to work. :o

Wanda's supposed to not be crazy reality-altering b**** anymore, too.

[MightyAvenge]

Pfft Wanda can control reality. She can make Vision JR do whatever she wants. Also he's a machine and Tony's the machine god. Vision's not going anywhere if the Avengers really want to make him stay.

Thats not true, Visions tech is probably more advanced than Starks tech and most if not all other tech in the MU, since Visions body is made from Kangs armor from the 30 century, so I doubt Stark could make Vision stay.

[CaptainCanada]

Powers are, to me, the least important part of a team (so long as there's a certain level of diversity, which this series has); character matters more, and Cassie has a ton of history with several of the other castmembers (two "uncles" and her father's murderer).

Slott said in interviews that one or two of the cast may not stick around, my guesses for the most likely to not stay being Iron Man and Hulk.

[MightyAvenge]

Exactly.

[Vanguard07]

I was joking about Wanda and Tony being able to control Vision. I only said it in response to the claim that Stature is able to make Vision Jr stay on board which even if true is hardly a valid reason to give her a place on the roster.

And If you paid attention her abilities being redundant was only half of my rationale for why she has no place on the team. Anyone remember Rage? Remember how he got kicked off the Avengers for being a minor? And how old is Stature again?

To me it seems both stupid and hypocritical to have her on the roster considering they've rejected others on the sole basis of being too young and that has nothing to do with her powers.

Also keep in mind that, again, I AM looking forward to this title and I think that overall it will be a good team and an excellent Avengers run.

Stature's role on it is just one thing that I'm not likely to ever approve of.

[CaptainCanada]

The MU has loosened up a lot with regard to teen heroes lately.

[Vanguard07]

To my knowledge this is the first example where they're allowing one on the Avengers.

They've always allowed teenage heroes to operate but they (quite reasonably) have never been willing to be responsible for risking their lives as often and as seriously as The Avengers do themselves.

I don't have a problem with Stature specifically. I just don't see how it makes sense for her to be in the big leagues.

[Anubis]

Well, the difference is she's a trained government approved Superhero. Which means here age don't mean s**t to the U.S. Gov.

[Kevin]

Drafted.

[Vanguard07]

I still don't have to approve.

[Eros]

I would of preferred Doc Samson on the team as opposed to stature. I think the dude deserved it alot more then the likes of stature, Hell as did a bunch of others heroes..

[Dread]

I'm not a big fan of Doc Samson, although he probably would fit on a team somewhere. He's a guy with Class 90-100 strength and with a psychologist's mindset. Brains and brawn.

I am liking the roster so far. I am just curious about how Wanda and the Hulk are going to fit in.

[Franklin Richards]

I thought the Samson was a Class 50 at best.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, the difference is she's a trained government approved Superhero. Which means here age don't mean s**t to the U.S. Gov.
I hope the new Mighty Avengers don't have any ties to the US government. I'd hate to see them under Norman's thumb.

[Spade]

I thought the Samson was a Class 50 at best.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

He used to be able to fight Hulk to a standstill, if I remember my old Hulk comics correctly. Maybe that's changed, but if it hasn't Dread's listing makes sense.

[RockSP]

I thought the Samson was a Class 50 at best.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

He used to be able to fight Hulk to a standstill, if I remember my old Hulk comics correctly. Maybe that's changed, but if it hasn't Dread's listing makes sense.

If he's class 100 it is a recent development. He was only a 25 ton-er back in the day (according to the old Marvel Handbook)...even when he knocked the Hulk out with one punch.

[MightyAvenge]

I would of preferred Doc Samson on the team as opposed to stature. I think the dude deserved it alot more then the likes of stature, Hell as did a bunch of others heroes..


We all know Doc Samson is the Rulk.:o

[MightyAvenge]

I hope the new Mighty Avengers don't have any ties to the US government. I'd hate to see them under Norman's thumb.


I doubt they have any ties to the U.S. Government. Look at the possible roster, it's made up of registered heroes (USAgent, Jocatsa, Stature), unregistered heroes (Hercules, Vision, Scarlet Witch, & Hulk) 2 of which, caused 2 of the last big events to happen (Scarlet Witch & Hulk), and the most wanted man in America (Tony Stark). Hank Pym is technically registered, but that might not last long. I'm guessing the the MA splinter off from the Initiative, so anybody that was registered, wil now become outlaws. Also I think Stature is actually their to be kept out of harms way, not to put her in danger.

[TheCorpulent1]

I hope Hank is totally outraged by what Tony has done and is all, "How could you ever believe I would ever go along with this, let alone be one of its chief architects?!" That would make my day. :)

[RockSP]

I hope Hank is totally outraged by what Tony has done and is all, "How could you ever believe I would ever go along with this, let alone be one of its chief architects?!"

...and then he smacks him.

[Dread]

I thought the Samson was a Class 50 at best.

:thing: :doom: :thing:

He used to be able to fight Hulk to a standstill, if I remember my old Hulk comics correctly. Maybe that's changed, but if it hasn't Dread's listing makes sense.

If he's class 100 it is a recent development. He was only a 25 ton-er back in the day (according to the old Marvel Handbook)...even when he knocked the Hulk out with one punch.

The website MarvelDirectory.com, which usually models their Bio's based on some of the late 80's-early 90's Handbooks, put Doc Samson's strength at Class 70, which would be 70 tons. Wikipedia claims that Samson's strength is "on par with Grey Hulk when calm". Grey Hulk started out at about 85-90 Tons, which is weaker than Green Hulk, who starts out at 100 tons. He does have considerable stamina, though; he's fought "mindless" Hulk for hours at a time. But, like many enemies, his strength doesn't increase so Hulk always eventually overpowers him. Yawn.

I hope the new Mighty Avengers don't have any ties to the US government. I'd hate to see them under Norman's thumb.

Considering Iron Man is now a fugitive, that may be what happens. The question is making that seem different from NEW AVENGERS, which do the same thing. I think they could be a mix. I am sure not EVERY government contact would be thrilled with Norman Osborn or would automatically turn from Stark, so he still may have some resources to exploit. Much as Nick Fury has.

Plus, we have Scarlet Witch and The Hulk on the team, so things may shift from them being the official federal team. That seems to be the Dark Avengers.

I hope Hank is totally outraged by what Tony has done and is all, "How could you ever believe I would ever go along with this, let alone be one of its chief architects?!" That would make my day. :)

That would be a cool scene. It would help make Pym seem more humane than, say, Reed, who went along with the SHRA for a few silly reasons.

[Vanguard07]

The website MarvelDirectory.com, which usually models their Bio's based on some of the late 80's-early 90's Handbooks, put Doc Samson's strength at Class 70, which would be 70 tons. Wikipedia claims that Samson's strength is "on par with Grey Hulk when calm". Grey Hulk started out at about 85-90 Tons, which is weaker than Green Hulk, who starts out at 100 tons. He does have considerable stamina, though; he's fought "mindless" Hulk for hours at a time. But, like many enemies, his strength doesn't increase so Hulk always eventually overpowers him. Yawn.



Well... it does but much more slowly as his hair grows. Or did they finally ditch that Old Testament Style weakness?

[Dread]

Well... it does but much more slowly as his hair grows. Or did they finally ditch that Old Testament Style weakness?

No, it still is in effect. But his hair never grows past his shoulders, anyway. Hell, I saw him with a buzz cut in HULK's first issue. What was he thinking!?

You'd think he would have crazy-long Shatterstar hair. :p

[Franklin Richards]

I'm playing the ol' Marvel Superheroes RPG tonight actually and I pulled up Doc.


This was a second printing of the game and he's only up to Amazing(50). This was the Byrne era of course.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/AuntPetunia/DTL/docsampson.jpg

And if he is up to 100 then Ben is getting screwed. He should be up to 150 by now.


:thing: :thing: :thing:

[Franklin Richards]

Double Mint Gum

:thing: :thing: :thing:

[Dread]

BEN's getting screwed? What about poor Colossus, the wimpiest "Marvel strong dude" around? Name me one feat of strength or grit he's had in the last few years (besides beating Ord, after Lockheed already pwned him and thus made him less dangerous looking). Uh-huh. Thought so. :p

[Spade]

He broke a desk in half...but I bet it was a really hard one!

:csad:

[Vanguard07]

BEN's getting screwed? What about poor Colossus, the wimpiest "Marvel strong dude" around? Name me one feat of strength or grit he's had in the last few years (besides beating Ord, after Lockheed already pwned him and thus made him less dangerous looking). Uh-huh. Thought so. :p

Agreed. Colossus is way tougher than he's been made out to be in the last little while. The only feat I can think of for him recently was when Rockslide shattered his arm on Colossus' face and Pete didn't even notice. I think that's the best he's had since his resurrection.

[Franklin Richards]

That's nice and all but Ben is the OG. He deserves a boost before anyone.

:D


:thing: :thing: :thing:

[Dread]

Agreed. Colossus is way tougher than he's been made out to be in the last little while. The only feat I can think of for him recently was when Rockslide shattered his arm on Colossus' face and Pete didn't even notice. I think that's the best he's had since his resurrection.

I did see that on a flip through. It was funny.

Aside for beating Ord, he hasn't done much. And again, Ord by then was a "typical Whedon villain" in which he was half known for comic relief than being dangerous, which really doesn't work well.

Slott knows how to provide those sorts of moments so I expect some good ol' slobberknockers in his MIGHTY AVENGERS. I mean, this is a guy who's made Triathlon cool.

That's nice and all but Ben is the OG. He deserves a boost before anyone.

:D


:thing: :thing: :thing:

Don't get me wrong, Ben's great. He's one of the most fleshed characters in the Marvel Universe. All I was hinting at was, it isn't hard finding a cool power moment for Ben every few years. For Colossus, you have to go back DECADES, if not over a GENERATION (i.e. 20 years).

[Eros]

Colossus is a gentle soul, hence he is ofcourse treated like a pansy at times.

[Dread]

Colossus is a gentle soul, hence he is ofcourse treated like a pansy at times.

He's only gentle until you piss him off by mutilating his friends. Ask Proteus or Riptide how gentle he is.

Yeah, those were his best moments. And that last one is almost older than I am. :p

[Franklin Richards]

At least he's not Sasquatch. Walter hasn't seen many good days lately.


:thing: :thing: :thing:

[Vanguard07]

Edit nvm i forgot he was the one that made it out alive. which kinda is an impressive feat if you wanna look at it that way.

[THANOSRULES]

yeah but that happned "off panel"

[TheCorpulent1]

That's nice and all but Ben is the OG. He deserves a boost before anyone.

:D


:thing: :thing: :thing:
He's been class 100 since Slott's Thing series. That's about as high as anyone gets in the Marvel universe, officially. He's up there with the Hulk, Thor, Gladiator, et al.

Really, the strength classifications are sort of meaningless now. Based on recent portrayals, it seems like every really strong character is considered right around the same level. That's why She-Hulk, Iron Man, Doc Samson, Valkyrie, the Thing, and a bunch of others who were previously just shy of the top-tier strength class are now holding their own against the likes of the Hulk and Thor.

[CaptainStacy]

Considering Iron Man is now a fugitive, that may be what happens.

Huh? When was he made a "fugitive"? :huh:

And for that matter, why? Because Earth was nearly over run by aliens under his watch?

I can see some sort of public disgrace, and even a boycott of Stark products...but a fugitive seems a bit like overkill.

[Franklin Richards]

He's been class 100 since Slott's Thing series. That's about as high as anyone gets in the Marvel universe, officially. He's up there with the Hulk, Thor, Gladiator, et al.

Really, the strength classifications are sort of meaningless now. Based on recent portrayals, it seems like every really strong character is considered right around the same level. That's why She-Hulk, Iron Man, Doc Samson, Valkyrie, the Thing, and a bunch of others who were previously just shy of the top-tier strength class are now holding their own against the likes of the Hulk and Thor.

Val was always around 50 tons with Balder. She get an upgrade?


:thing: :thing: :thing:

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, she certainly seems to hold her own with She-Hulk and Thundra in the Liberators, and she seemed to be about even with Thor in the Man of War one-shot.
Huh? When was he made a "fugitive"? :huh:

And for that matter, why? Because Earth was nearly over run by aliens under his watch?

I can see some sort of public disgrace, and even a boycott of Stark products...but a fugitive seems a bit like overkill.
The solicitations for upcoming issues of Invincible Iron Man say he's a fugitive. Not sure exactly why yet, but my guess would be that the US government wants a scapegoat for the fact that Earth was very nearly conquered despite having more organized superhuman forces at their command, and since Iron Man is the one who orchestrated all of that, he's the easiest target. You know how the US government loves to f*** with people, guilty or not, to appease its angry citizens.

[Franklin Richards]

I think I read a hint from Bendis about Stark taking the secret identities from the SHRA when he leaves. I think that's why he's on the run.

Oh and something about the Extremis Virus goin' bad.



:thing: :doom: :thing:

[TheCorpulent1]

I really hope they don't blame Stark's cockamamie ideas on Extremis. Just let him stay morally ambiguous, please.

[Franklin Richards]

It's not like he killed Kilowog. I am curious as to whether or not everyone's secret identities are back.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[TheCorpulent1]

How would Stark ever kill Kilowog? :huh:

[Franklin Richards]

With full force repulsors, silly.


:gl: :gl: :gl:

[Franklin Richards]

Double repulsors.


:gl: :gl: :gl:

[Vanguard07]

Well, she certainly seems to hold her own with She-Hulk and Thundra in the Liberators, and she seemed to be about even with Thor in the Man of War one-shot.

The solicitations for upcoming issues of Invincible Iron Man say he's a fugitive. Not sure exactly why yet, but my guess would be that the US government wants a scapegoat for the fact that Earth was very nearly conquered despite having more organized superhuman forces at their command, and since Iron Man is the one who orchestrated all of that, he's the easiest target. You know how the US government loves to f*** with people, guilty or not, to appease its angry citizens.


From the solicits I read, Osborn specifically targets him and plants evidence indicating Stark had previous knowledge of the Skrull invasion which leads to his fugitive status.

[Dread]

Until INVINCIBLE IRON MAN ships, exactly why Iron Man is a fugitive is unclear. From how SECRET INVASION and DARK REIGN went, the impression is that because the invasion by Skrulls happened on Stark's watch, and especially since the Skrulls capitalized on so much of SHIELD and the nations/world's tech network being connected to Stark Tech, he is the fall guy. Plus, the Skrulls were able to infiltrate both SHIELD and Stark's own Mighty Avengers team under his nose. "Skrullowjacket" was also under his nose and helped plan the 50 State Initiative, which is now being seen as a Skrull ploy to get super-Skrulls in every state, which it kind of was. It was a good idea that aliens exploited.

The theme is naturally that everyone needs a fall person and Americans have this knack of rather than saying, "we got attacked by evil people, no one is infallible and we would be best if unified", we like to blame someone, destroy someone internally, and become more polarized and vulnerable than ever while enjoying the barest illusion of accountability.

Plus, well, the theme of "no superhero deed goes unpunished" is a common one for Marvel now. They won't care that eventually Stark and his allies got their **** together and beat the aliens. All they'll care about is the consequences.

And all this would be fine, if not for the idea that Norman Osborn is far more corrupt and has far more blemishes on his record than Stark ever had, even after Armor Wars, and he's Marvel's Messiah now. It just reeks of "story requirements first, logic second, characters last".

But, at least it will get Iron Man to a place where he is an underdog and isn't as hated.

[kguillou]

Its too bad really, i was enjoying Tony Stark as head of SHIELD, i feel like there was a lot more potential stories to be told from that angle but oh well....sometimes i get dizzy from all this status quo changing every year.

[Dread]

Its too bad really, i was enjoying Tony Stark as head of SHIELD, i feel like there was a lot more potential stories to be told from that angle but oh well....sometimes i get dizzy from all this status quo changing every year.

So do many of us. Movements have little impact if they are gone by the time you get used to them. But that is what you get with Joe Q trying to duplicate the "chaos" of the early 60's. Because that's forward thinking. Trying to duplicate the past. Working well for DC now. :o

[chris moore]

The video interview for Dark Reign says that Osborn comes to Stark and says 'give me the list' and of Stark knows full well that Osborn is a raving lunatic and a supervillain so he refuses - thats what makes him a fugative. Not turning over the identities of all the registered heroes to the Green Goblin