The Official Mighty Avengers Thread

[TheCorpulent1]

Score one on the light side of the moral compass for Tony. :)

[TheCorpulent1]

Preview of #20 (http://www.newsarama.com/php/multimedia/album.php?aid=24744)

I hate to admit it, but that preview is actually really touching. I didn't think Bendis was capable of actually writing Hank as a person.

[Eros]

Preview of #20 (http://www.newsarama.com/php/multimedia/album.php?aid=24744)

I hate to admit it, but that preview is actually really touching. I didn't think Bendis was capable of actually writing Hank as a person.

Yes it was, Bendis did a great job showing us a "Happier" time. Before Hank Pym went nearly Insane, Before he and Janet split, before the darkers times.

[kguillou]

So...read the new issue, must say it was very well-down, very touching. Hank Pym has defintely redeemed himself with this issue. Bendis wrote him well.

[Kevin]

Didn't read the issue yet, but I could've sworn people claiming that Bendis hated Pym.

[arachnid-guy]

Yes it was, Bendis did a great job showing us a "Happier" time. Before Hank Pym went nearly Insane, Before he and Janet split, before the darkers times.


Before the Empire.

[kguillou]

I gotta say though, even though Tony kinda deserves it, i really really feel bad for the guy. When Hank blamed him for Janet's death at the funeral in front of everybody, i was just like " Come on man, this guy's suffering enough, now your gona put this guilt on him?" Tony's literally got a million and one problems right now.

[RockSP]

I gotta say though, even though Tony kinda deserves it, i really really feel bad for the guy. When Hank blamed him for Janet's death at the funeral in front of everybody, i was just like " Come on man, this guy's suffering enough, now your gona put this guilt on him?" Tony's literally got a million and one problems right now.

...but a (shrinking) b@*%h ain't one.

[Kevin]

...but a (shrinking) b@*%h ain't one.
Oh ****, lol!

[kguillou]

Oh snap, that was funy i can't lie. Haha lol

[Vanguard07]

I gotta say though, even though Tony kinda deserves it, i really really feel bad for the guy. When Hank blamed him for Janet's death at the funeral in front of everybody, i was just like " Come on man, this guy's suffering enough, now your gona put this guilt on him?" Tony's literally got a million and one problems right now.


I actually felt bad for Hank in that scene. I mean he was clearly breaking down in front of the whole world and I couldn't help but think "You're better than this man. Come on... cool it". That was why I felt specially happy at Thor's appearance/performance there.

All in all the issue was useless but fairly well done at least.

[Kevin]

Alright issue. Surprised to see thor.

[chamber-music]

I'm not sure who has been more kicked when they are down more Hank with (face of the skrull invasion, numerous mental breakdowns, booted from the avengers, kidnapped by skrulls, both wives and lots of friends being dead, accidentley creating ultron, being brainwashed, becoming poor, ect

Or Tony (Civil War, alcoholic, Illuminati, armour war, becoming a US outlaw, becoming paralyzed, World War Hulk, losing his company, ect)

I bet Tony could do with a drink about now................... he could always fake his own death again but I guess you can only get away with that one once.

Hank should be happy because after all these years Tony is now known as that jackass avenger instead of him.

[MightyAvenge]

I'm really glad they're building up Pym, and in a good way, like most others are pointing out. I wonder if this would actually be happening if they didn't have an Avengers movie coming out in a couple years. Dont get me wrong, I'm not gonna complain about Pym getting a push, or about a great Avengers movie in the making, I'm just wondering if the push would be happening if they didn't want the character to get a little more exposure.

[TheBlueRogue]

As a Pym fan I really enjoyed this issue alot and can't wait for #21, though I do hope spidey kicks normans ass soon.

[CaptainCanada]

Some unlettered pages from #21 (http://www.marvel.com/news/comicstories.6438.Your_First_Look_At_Mighty_Avenge rs_%2321%21).

Several states appear to have vanished into thin air.

[TheCorpulent1]

I'm really glad they're building up Pym, and in a good way, like most others are pointing out. I wonder if this would actually be happening if they didn't have an Avengers movie coming out in a couple years. Dont get me wrong, I'm not gonna complain about Pym getting a push, or about a great Avengers movie in the making, I'm just wondering if the push would be happening if they didn't want the character to get a little more exposure.
It's possible, but whatever the reason, I'm glad. This issue was pretty solid. I was a bit confused about the Thor/Hank part, since they were never really great friends, but then it hit me: Thor and Hank are literally the only founding Avengers left in any sort of "normal" condition. Jan's dead, Tony's on the outs with just about everyone, and the Hulk was an Avenger for about two seconds and basically hates everyone else anyway. Thor and Hank are the only two founders still sucking air and on good terms. It's a very strange feeling knowing Bendis noted something about continuity that I missed and included it in a story.

I also liked that the beginning drew a parallel between Cap's awakening in the present and Hank now being the man out of time having to reacquaint himself with the world. That was fairly subtle but wholly appropriate and well done.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to where this goes. It seems like the New Avengers are in the same spot they were before--the outcasts and renegades--with the Dark Avengers taking over the Mighty Avengers' spot as the oppressive authority-types and the Mighty Avengers becoming some kind of mix of the two for unknown purposes. I hope Slott does good work with Hank, since he sorely deserves something good to happen at this point.

[cerealkiller182]

When it comes to Thor and Hank, I just figured it was a mix of empathy/sympathy. Not their own friendship but in the wake of Janet's death

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, that too. Jan was always trying to get into Thor's divine pantaloons back in the early Avengers days.

[Franklin Richards]

She was in the presence of a God! She was just flirting.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[TheCorpulent1]

I know, but the hyperbole makes it much funnier. It's no wonder Hank's self-confidence was eventually shaken, though. Having your wife throw compliments at a god every day would get to the most confident of men.

[Franklin Richards]

I seem to remember her throwing a few Caps way as well. And lets not forget how Tony Stark was putting the moves on her while Hank was in jail.


Classy Tony. Classy.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Dread]

It's possible, but whatever the reason, I'm glad. This issue was pretty solid. I was a bit confused about the Thor/Hank part, since they were never really great friends, but then it hit me: Thor and Hank are literally the only founding Avengers left in any sort of "normal" condition. Jan's dead, Tony's on the outs with just about everyone, and the Hulk was an Avenger for about two seconds and basically hates everyone else anyway. Thor and Hank are the only two founders still sucking air and on good terms. It's a very strange feeling knowing Bendis noted something about continuity that I missed and included it in a story.

I also liked that the beginning drew a parallel between Cap's awakening in the present and Hank now being the man out of time having to reacquaint himself with the world. That was fairly subtle but wholly appropriate and well done.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to where this goes. It seems like the New Avengers are in the same spot they were before--the outcasts and renegades--with the Dark Avengers taking over the Mighty Avengers' spot as the oppressive authority-types and the Mighty Avengers becoming some kind of mix of the two for unknown purposes. I hope Slott does good work with Hank, since he sorely deserves something good to happen at this point.
Agreed. It was a rare terrific issue from Bendis that makes me wonder where this was for five years, and sets things up for Slott well.

Oh, and here is a five page preview of MIGHTY AVENGERS #21, with no narration or dialogue:

http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0812/18/marvelfirsts.htm

[chamber-music]

I seem to remember her throwing a few Caps way as well. And lets not forget how Tony Stark was putting the moves on her while Hank was in jail.


Classy Tony. Classy.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

Jan pretty much flirted with all the avengers. Cap, Thor, Tony.........probabley would of tried it on with Hulk too if wasn't all Betty this and Betty that!

she got to live longer than Hanks first wife anyway

[Spade]

Agreed. It was a rare terrific issue from Bendis that makes me wonder where this was for five years, and sets things up for Slott well.

Oh, and here is a five page preview of MIGHTY AVENGERS #21, with no narration or dialogue:

http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0812/18/marvelfirsts.htm

"Hulk smash puny snowflake"?

[chris moore]

I can see why Hank acted the way he did at the funeral. For him, the last time he saw Tony or any of the Avengers was just after disassembled and therefore before "he" thought of any of the initiative stuff or helped build Clor or anything. So its not like this is the Hank who got more confident and came up with world changing ideas and backed Tony to the hilt.

Now if he hadnt been swapped out, or only got swapped out midway through the initiative or something (and thereby was the one who had all the ideas and slept with Tigra etc) then I would say he was being a nob at the funeral.

[TheCorpulent1]

I'm glad we get a Hank who didn't go along with Tony's stupid ideas now. I wonder how things will play between him and Tony on the team. Judging from the preview, it seems Wanda actually gathers all of the new team members together, so maybe the point of the team is that they're all outcasts in some way. Tony's a fugitive, Wanda's hated by mutants everywhere, Hank's considered the face of the Skrulls, the Hulk is the Hulk, Jocasta sort of fell off the face of the earth for years, and Vision and Stature... well, I don't know why they're there. Maybe they defect from the Initiative or something.

[Dread]

Hercules is also considered a fugitive as well. He was part of the Secret Avengers and never formally registered. He sided with Hulk during WWH and he & Cho attacked SHIELD agents and stuff. While SHIELD is now HAMMER, of course, Hercules' status as a fugitive may not change.

I like Hank now that he is back and relatively clean from the crap that was seemingly done in his name since 2004. Especially since Bendis' ability to mess with him will be limited now that Slott is on MIGHTY AVENGERS.

Maybe Wanda has taken enough time off to "heal" and wants to attone as an Avenger again, and summons some like minded individuals. Or at least those who she thinks will be like minded. Hank still has to convince those who see him as "the face of the Skrull Empire" (kind of like Spider-Woman). Iron Man is a pariah at best and thanks to blocking Norman Osborn's access at superhero identities, a fugitive of HAMMER as well. Hercules has been on the run and sort of an independent figure for a while now. The Hulk is always a wild card but there were moments when even "Child Hulk" wanted to help people who weren't army men (like your typical "innocent people of the week" syndrome). U.S. Agent was deployed to Canada and always rubs people the wrong way. He's like Cap as a Jerk.

Jocasta is interesting because she was programmed by Ultron with Wasp's brain patterns. If we got the sordid Vision/Wanda/Wonder Man triangle because of Simon's brain patterns, how will Jocasta react to a mourning Hank who probably would be receptive to anything that reminded him of Wasp? Especially during happier times?

Stature could simply want to honor her father by being an Avenger. Also, to the best of my knowledge, Vision 2.0 never registered, so she could be supporting him.

Having caught up with INCREDIBLE HERCULES, I do like how it is connected to some other books now, or will be next year. Herc will be in MIGHTY AVENGERS and one of those preview pages clearly show Slott hasn't ignored IH. And he is dating Namora, who will be returning to the relaunched AGENTS OF ATLAS that is trying to capitalize on any DARK REIGN hype. I wouldn't be surprised if Herc popped up there too, as Jeff Parker did help write some of the WWH issues with him and Namora in them. So it could be like a Triforce of Herc.

[Dread]

"Hulk smash puny snowflake"?

Hulk always has been a little child-like in that way. Like that moment in the INCREDIBLE HULK movie where he's hiding with Betty Ross in the cave and roaring at the thunder. I thought that was a cool moment.

[TheCorpulent1]

Hercules is also considered a fugitive as well. He was part of the Secret Avengers and never formally registered. He sided with Hulk during WWH and he & Cho attacked SHIELD agents and stuff. While SHIELD is now HAMMER, of course, Hercules' status as a fugitive may not change.
It seems pretty clear that the unregistered heroes' status as fugitives won't change if we go by Mighty Avengers #20. Norman makes it clear that Clint is still considered a fugitive and that he'll have people coming after Clint again soon. I think the divisions between the heroes may break down a bit now that there's a full-on villain in control of things rather than Iron Man, who people could at least believe was actually doing all the questionable things he did with good intentions.

Also, I think "dating" might be too strong a word for Herc and Namora. They're basically f***-buddies, based on what I've seen.

[CaptainCanada]

Herc seemed kind of attached to her in #123 (beyond the obvious:cwink:).

[Dread]

It seems pretty clear that the unregistered heroes' status as fugitives won't change if we go by Mighty Avengers #20. Norman makes it clear that Clint is still considered a fugitive and that he'll have people coming after Clint again soon. I think the divisions between the heroes may break down a bit now that there's a full-on villain in control of things rather than Iron Man, who people could at least believe was actually doing all the questionable things he did with good intentions.

Also, I think "dating" might be too strong a word for Herc and Namora. They're basically f***-buddies, based on what I've seen.

I was trying to be family friendly about Herc & Namora's relations. ;)

Yeah, I doubt Norman would alter the fugitive status of heroes unless they followed him, and I can't imagine too many proper ones following him. If they were hesitant to all obey Tony Stark, then they should balk entirely with Norman Osborn.

[Anubis]

Last I saw the Scarlett Witch had forgot about all the s**t she did and was living a normal life in funky tit,transylvania or wherever. If she comes back, I don't think she's gonna remember what she did....and maybe she's gonna end up like Proteus in Exiles. Everybody trying to act like the person on their team isn't a mass murdering psycho crazy panties.

[TheCorpulent1]

Ideally, Wanda would start to remember things and Hank would guide her through the psychological healing process. :up:

[Dread]

That sounds fine if Wanda's memories of things were fuzzy, but I wouldn't want her to pull a Hal Jordon. Redemption can be a very riveting character trait and subplot. It was what made some people read THUNDERBOLTS for years, after all. The idea of Scarlet Witch wanting to redeem herself, and some of the other heroes perhaps trying to as well, is a nice central theme. Plus, since Wanda was to blame for the end of the original Avengers (at least for a week, before Cap & Stark founded the New Avengers), it would be kind of neat if she was a catalyst for rebuilding them.

Redemption could be a good key for a few of them. Hank Pym would want to make extra sure he was not confused with the Skrull posing as him or with Stark's Initiative failures. Iron Man will be seeking to make up for his mistakes. For all we know, U.S. Agent may want to take extra care to be a better soldier now that Cap is dead and he is stuck as one of his countless "imitators". Hulk of course has always been a misunderstood monster. If he is on the team, that might explain why Hercules helps, to stick by his ally or make up for past offenses (like the Champions stuff, or inadvertently killing Hulk's buddies in the one-shot from before). Jocasta of course has the fact that she was made by Ultron against her, maybe.

It could be an interesting angle.

[Franklin Richards]

Jocasta being a copy of Jan's "brain patterns" will put Hank and her together at some point.


Am I the only one who really doesn't like US Agent? He's a dick and it would take a hell of alot to make me like him.

And not in that Guy Gardner way. Guy has always been a dick but he's our dick. US Agent doesn't give a rat's ass about anybody.


I just don't like him. If Dan can make me like him he's done a great job.



:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Dread]

Dan Slott can have some fun with "a-hole" characters. He has in the past.

I agree that Jocasta having Janet's brain patterns will be an interesting story hook.

[TheCorpulent1]

US Agent just spent the entirety of Guardian's MCP arc getting his ass kicked to try and help Guardian. Before that he basically led Omega Flight. I don't think he's that much of an assh**e--at least not anymore. He's just gruff and set in his soldierly ways. He was always at his best on the West Coast Avengers, and the Mighty Avengers seems like a spiritual successor to that, so I think Slott will do fine with him.

[Dread]

U.S. Agent, Iron Man and Scarlet Witch were members of that West Coast squad too, right?

Plus, it makes sense that being "stationed" in Canada would be temporary.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yep, Hank, Johnny Walker, Tony, and Wanda were all WCA members--more than that, they were basically the core of the team, along with Wonder Man, the all-white Vision, and Hawkeye. I think Jocasta might've been on the WCA for a while too, but I'm not 100% sure of that.

[cerealkiller182]

The last mighty avengers cover was a bit of a let down.

The new Vision is cool and good addition.

Im not a fan of Stature.

And I was hoping for She-Hulk when I saw the glimpse of green on the second cover.I just dont really like Hulk on the Avengers at least at this point in comics history. Which is weird because I think hes good on cartoon/film as an Avenger.

Maybe I'm just a little dissapointed with no Beast. Hes taking a lot of responsibility for the mutantkind though so it makes sense hes not there. I was also kinda hoping Ms MArvel was going to stay on the team

[MightyAvenge]

Im so pissed Wonder-Man isnt on the team, does anybody have any cluue what they have planned for him? I'm hoping that he gets placed in some other book like the Initiative or something, or hopefully he becomes a memeber after an arc or 2. We could get some stories out of WonderMan/Vision & Scarlet Witch. This team of Avengers, has all kinds of potential storylines.

Stature and Vision 2.0 being there gives me hope that we'll get to see the Young Avengers. Which means we could see Speed and Wiccan finally interact with their mother. Hopefully we'll get to see some weirdness about Vision kinda being Speed/Wiccans father.
Jocasta and Vision 2.0 are kinda like brother and sister, Jocasta is based off of Wasp and the Vision 2.0 is based off of Wonder-Man/Kang. So will we see some of the old Vision comeout and start showing some slight interest towards Scarlet Witch? What will that do to Stature. Isn't kinda coincidential that Hank Pym(size-changer) might end up having a relationship with Jocasta(Android), and Stature (size-changer) has a somewhat relationship/interest in Vision 2.0 (Android)

Their is a ton of stories that can grow from a combno of these characters

Hank Pym
Scarlet Witch
Jocasta
Vision 2.0
Stature

Thats more than half the team, that actually have a weird family-like conection.
Basically I'm just throwing out random little connections that the MA have.

[CaptainCanada]

Vision II doesn't have any of Vision I's personality, just his data; he's all Iron Lad in terms of base personality format. Not that him being on the same team as Wanda wouldn't be awkward.

Regarding Wonder Man, Bendis said he was planned on being a Skrull at one point, but he decided against it; there's no indication he has a destination now.

[MightyAvenge]

The last mighty avengers cover was a bit of a let down.

The new Vision is cool and good addition.

Im not a fan of Stature.

And I was hoping for She-Hulk when I saw the glimpse of green on the second cover.I just dont really like Hulk on the Avengers at least at this point in comics history. Which is weird because I think hes good on cartoon/film as an Avenger.

Maybe I'm just a little dissapointed with no Beast. Hes taking a lot of responsibility for the mutantkind though so it makes sense hes not there. I was also kinda hoping Ms MArvel was going to stay on the team


Ms. Marvel is gonna be on NA, which gives the team the muscle that is missing. They'll need it, going up against the DA who have Ares, Sentry, and Marvel Boy on the team. I'll go out on a limb and say that, Thor will eventaully join the NA, not MA. It will start to make NA feel like a "real" team of Avengers, so NA can start to feel a little more classic, but stillkeeping the new by leaving Spider-Man and Wolverine on the team. NA will be more of what Hollywood sees the Avengers being.

Captain America (Classic)
Thor (Classic)
Spider-Man (New)
Wolverine (New)
Hawkeye/Ronin (Classic/New)
Ms. Marvel (Classic/New)
Luke Cage (New)

New Avenegers has been TOO New for a little to long now, so they need to change things up by throwing some classic Avengers on the team. Throw in Wonder-Man to the roster above and I'd say, that would be a realy good mix of Classic and New, it would be New but it would have that classic feel to it, which is what that book needs. Cause really the NA, do just look like a New Heroes for Hire. As opposed to MA, which has a very classic feel to it, and is very Avengeary.

[MightyAvenge]

Vision II doesn't have any of Vision I's personality, just his data; he's all Iron Lad in terms of base personality format. Not that him being on the same team as Wanda wouldn't be awkward.

Regarding Wonder Man, Bendis said he was planned on being a Skrull at one point, but he decided against it; there's no indication he has a destination now.


Your right about Vision being all Kang, but if he has all of Vision 1.0 data, than he should have all the memories of the old Vision. Which could lead to some really interesting stories between Vison & Scarlet Witch.

I'd say throw Wonder-Man on NA, give them some extra power to go against the DA. I'd also put Thor on the team, especially if he loses control over Asgard.

Captain America
Thor
Luke Cage
Wonder-Man
Ms. Marvel
Spider-Man
Hawkeye/Ronin
Wolverine
Spider-Woman

[JustABill]

Your right about Vision being all Kang, but if he has all of Vision 1.0 data, than he should have all the memories of the old Vision. Which could lead to some really interesting stories between Vison & Scarlet Witch.

I'd say throw Wonder-Man on NA, give them some extra power to go against the DA. I'd also put Thor on the team, especially if he loses control over Asgard.

Captain America
Thor
Luke Cage
Wonder-Man
Ms. Marvel
Spider-Man
Hawkeye/Ronin
Wolverine
Spider-Woman
That's a hella powerful team. :o

[Kevin]

Don't forget Mockingbird.

[THANOSRULES]

The Best of John Walker was always the Walker Saga in Cap. It was the only real place where he was viewed as complex, and we at least got a good look in to why he was the way he was.

It seemed when he hit WCA he was forever pigeon holed into "team jerk" and never allowed much growth. Which is a real tragedy, because he could be so much more than another failed Captain America.

His US Agent series I didnt read much though, that costume was horrible..and he had some ridiculous hair cut.

Then again John Walker and Ultimate cap are really eerily similiar..Ive always though John should be written more like this.

I think Slott sees some true potential here..and we have already seen some surprising stuff from John since Civil War.

[Franklin Richards]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/AuntPetunia/Fantastic%20Four/Comic%20Scans/waspBig3.jpg

:(



:thing: :thing: :thing:

[Anubis]

sigh......And so goes the team gang bang. :(

[Dread]

sigh......And so goes the team gang bang. :(

Thank Bendis. The master of killing off decent female characters to make some "no name" threat seem important. See USM: CARNAGE as further evidence.

[Franklin Richards]

That panel brings up a good question. Will Thor go to Hela's realm to get Janet when this is all said and done? He was the one that made her disappear in a big teleporting tornado. Where'd her "soul" go? Valhalla? Hel? The Void? Limbo?

Will the Big 3 go on a journey at some point to save Janet Van Dyne's soul?


Could be fun.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Dread]

I don't know. How often have the Avengers stormed the gates of the afterworld after their own dead members?

I mean, one adventure with Dr. Strange and the Defenders in Mephisto's realm could probably undo BND, but would they? :p

As for "the big three", Bucky Barnes really doesn't know Wasp and probably wouldn't venture after her. He has stuff to do, being Captain America and all.

[Franklin Richards]

It would be very FF of them to do it too. Heaven. Hell. **** it. We're getting Jan. Maybe even redeem Tony in Thor and Bucky's eyes. Hell forget Bucky. Steve is already there. He'll kick ass and then help 'em get out.

"I can't come with you guys. My place is still here. For now."

If you're reading this Dan. I want a No-Prize after you write it.


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[Franklin Richards]

Double.


But as for BND. If Peter would tell Johnny what happened, this crap would be over tomorrow.


:ff: :ff: :ff:

[Dread]

It would be very FF of them to do it too. Heaven. Hell. **** it. We're getting Jan. Maybe even redeem Tony in Thor and Bucky's eyes. Hell forget Bucky. Steve is already there. He'll kick ass and then help 'em get out.

"I can't come with you guys. My place is still here. For now."

If you're reading this Dan. I want a No-Prize after you write it.


:doom: :doom: :doom:

Well, since Thor was the one who had to vanquish her, it would make sense if Thor looked into that, much as he visited Steve Rogers. I just doubt JMS would want to trend similar territory twice. Fraction could maybe handle it in a random one-shot, though. He's been doing a few of those.

Double.


But as for BND. If Peter would tell Johnny what happened, this crap would be over tomorrow.


:ff: :ff: :ff:

Johnny may not remember it, either. From what I understand, Mephisto did some mojo on a global scale to make BND work. To make Peter's identity secret again and to remove the knowledge of the marriage from everyone. All MJ is is some girl Pete dated a while.

The only character I can't buy being demonically brainwashed is Dr. Strange. C'mon, broken hands or not, he's the Sorcerer Supreme. His consciousness isn't like any mere mortal's. You'd think he or someone else might be concerned about Mephisto gaining power by dealing with one of their world's most well known heroes. I mean, Spider-Man has been everywhere. He's battled every menace there is, even Mephisto a few times prior (just never alone). That's why despite Slott I could never get into BND. It's a farce. A Level 2 hell-lord has brainwashed a superhero and his wife, and the whole world, to pretend a deep, passionate love never happened. He won. I can't just shrug my shoulders and enjoy Pete's bachelor hyjinks with that in the back of my head, no matter who writes it. That everyone's following Mephisto's script here. It doesn't feel natural or appealing.

But, now I'm ranting.

MIGHTY AVENGERS looks terrific. Hercules has been kicking ass everywhere and this looks to continue that. We have some good characters and a guy who knows his history and embraces it. Plus, it may be a chance to be a little less bleak than AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE, and Slott isn't his best when he's being bleak. Can't wait.

[Franklin Richards]

Maybe my namesake should set things straight. Mephisto's always been his *****.

And another thing... Reed pretty much figured out who Spider-man was long before his "reveal" in Civil War. What about all the people who knew Pete's secret before? Wolverine could smell it. Didn't Puma figure it out too? Xavier knew. Strange knew.

What about those guys?


:ff: :ff: :ff:

[chris moore]

Wolverine'll only know if he runs into Peter when not in costume - same for Daredevil

[hippie_hunter]

Maybe my namesake should set things straight. Mephisto's always been his *****.

And another thing... Reed pretty much figured out who Spider-man was long before his "reveal" in Civil War. What about all the people who knew Pete's secret before? Wolverine could smell it. Didn't Puma figure it out too? Xavier knew. Strange knew.

What about those guys?


:ff: :ff: :ff:
Green Goblin, Iron Man, Aunt May, Anti-Venom, Daredevil, and several others who knew who Spider-Man was before Civil War no longer know. Marvel pretty much clearly stated that absolutely NO ONE knows who Spider-Man is.

[TheCorpulent1]

Thor believes Jan went to Valhalla, it seems. In MA #20, when he stops Hank's tirade he mentions that Valhalla's gates are richer for Jan's addition or something to effect. As far as Thor's concerned, she died a warrior's death and is about as honored as anyone can be in the afterlife. I doubt he'd want to storm anything to get her back.

Hank, on the other hand, might try to get Wanda to resurrect her like she did Clint.

[moraldeficiency]

Maybe my namesake should set things straight. Mephisto's always been his *****.

And another thing... Reed pretty much figured out who Spider-man was long before his "reveal" in Civil War. What about all the people who knew Pete's secret before? Wolverine could smell it. Didn't Puma figure it out too? Xavier knew. Strange knew.

What about those guys?


:ff: :ff: :ff:

All the fantastic four knew after "i'm with stupid" I loved how pissed johnny was that he wasn't told first.

puma knew for a while via wolverine like ways, but then mystically forgot (it was a pretty good arc) but I think he definately knew again.

For the heroes:
the ff
the NA
doc strange
nick fury
daredevil
xavier
puma
black cat
(and the whole world when he unmasked in civil war, but now no one remembers, but it happened the same way, but...nevermind)

[Dread]

Thor believes Jan went to Valhalla, it seems. In MA #20, when he stops Hank's tirade he mentions that Valhalla's gates are richer for Jan's addition or something to effect. As far as Thor's concerned, she died a warrior's death and is about as honored as anyone can be in the afterlife. I doubt he'd want to storm anything to get her back.

Hank, on the other hand, might try to get Wanda to resurrect her like she did Clint.

Wouldn't that mean Wanda would have to sleep with Janet? I could imagine Hercules asking for a camera. :p

[Red Mask]

All the fantastic four knew after "i'm with stupid" I loved how pissed johnny was that he wasn't told first.

puma knew for a while via wolverine like ways, but then mystically forgot (it was a pretty good arc) but I think he definately knew again.

For the heroes:
the ff
the NA
doc strange
nick fury
daredevil
xavier
puma
black cat
(and the whole world when he unmasked in civil war, but now no one remembers, but it happened the same way, but...nevermind)


That's extreme. Even his fellow superheroes don't remember? I didn't think it would go that far.

[Dread]

That's extreme. Even his fellow superheroes don't remember? I didn't think it would go that far.

Why not? It was a Mephisto spell. Having fellow heroes forget and even grow to distrust you moreso would be a downside.

It's just a mess.

[Red Mask]

I haven't kept up with Spidey. I thought the general public just forgot, not his comrades in arms.

[Dread]

The gist is that everyone seemingly forgot. But it isn't clear. There are a lot about the new status quo that, a year later, still aren't explained. Marvel editorial is clearly making it up as they go along with the batch of ASM writers, but like with many things, will go, "oh, it was all planned" anyway.

[hippie_hunter]

The gist is that everyone seemingly forgot. But it isn't clear. There are a lot about the new status quo that, a year later, still aren't explained. Marvel editorial is clearly making it up as they go along with the batch of ASM writers, but like with many things, will go, "oh, it was all planned" anyway.

Actually Marvel has made it very clear about the knowledge of Spider-Man's secret identity.

Throughout the Brand New Day revamp of the Spider-Man books, they clearly show that Aunt May and J. Jonah Jameson (Jr.), don't know that Peter Parker is Spider-Man.

Amazing Spider-Man #546, the first issue of Brand New Day clearly states:
"Absolutely no one knows that Peter Parker is Spider-Man. Not Daredevil, not the Avengers, not anyone. His identity is truly a secret. Although some people seem to recall that Spidey unmasked himself during Civil War, no one quite remembers whose face was under the mask.

Spider-Man is an unlicensed, unregistered superhero. He has no intentions of registering with the federal government as this would require him to reveal his identity. Thus, to the public, he's considered an illegal vigilante. On a good day."

In Amazing Spider-Man #566, in Kraven's First Hunt, Pete needed a costume to wear since his Spider-Man outfit was gone, so he went to Matt Murdock to borrow the Daredevil suit. He wore a mask made out of webbing to see him and Matt had no idea who he really was.

In Amazing Spider-Man #569, in New Ways to Die, Norman Osborn, the man who found out he was Spider-Man by following him at a safe distance and killed Gwen Stacy, clearly states that he doesn't know that Peter is Spider-Man, but thinks that he and Spider-Man have some sort of working relationship.

In Amazing Spider-Man #581, in Mind on Fire, Harry Osborn is clearly shown to not know who Spider-Man is.

In Amazing Spider-Man Annual #35, Reed Richards never calls him by name.

In Invincible Iron Man #7, in The Five Nightmares, Tony remembers Pete as a former Stark employee and when Iron Man teams up with Spider-Man, he clearly states that because Spider-Man's identity is secret that he can't be seen working with him and that he should unmask before him in order to work together. Although he did come off as a little bit of a dick towards Spider-Man and registration, he does make a valid point on why in the Marvel Universe, a secret identity is getting less and less needed.

In Invincible Iron Man #8, in World's Most Wanted, Norman Osborn not knowing who Spider-Man is, is further reinforced, as his name is not on the SHRA Database.

In New Avengers #38, the Breakup, the first post-BND issue of New Avengers, none of the other Avengers call Spider-Man by his name and is given a particular entrance to his room in their new headquarters since they had to leave the Sanctum Sanctorum.

Same in New Avengers #48, the first post-Secret Invasion issue, Spidey is never mentioned by name.

The solicit of New Avengers #51 states "WHO IS THE NEW SORCERER SUPREME? Doctor Strange has failed as the Master of the Mystic Arts and all the other mystic characters are the heir apparent. Strange comes to the New Avengers for help as the mystic battle royale begins. Plus, how can the Avengers trust Spider-Man if he won't take his mask off?"

In Ms. Marvel #34, Secret Agent Danvers, it's stated that Ms. Marvel does not know who Spider-Man is.

Throughout the Secret Invasion event, no one called Spider-Man his real name.

The only hint of someone knowing who Spider-Man is was in Amazing Spider-Man #561, Peter Parker: Paparazzi. And that person was Mary Jane when she guided him throughout her boyfriend's house through the cameras of the security room.

So Marvel has actually been very, very, very clear in regards to Spider-Man's identity. Absolutely no one knows at all with the exeption of Peter Parker himself, and Mary Jane, who appears to be the only person who fully knows what life was like before Brand New Day.

[Dread]

Wait....so MJ knows that Peter basically traded life with her for his aunt with the devil himself? What a turn off. :p

[hippie_hunter]

Wait....so MJ knows that Peter basically traded life with her for his aunt with the devil himself? What a turn off. :p

It was MJ who initiated the deal. She was the one who first said yes against Peter's doubts and was the one who convinced him to say yes.

She also made special conditions so that he would be happy.

[Dread]

"I was pushed back into Peter Pan syndrome by my wife, who made a deal with the devil, so she could go on to date more famous people and I could continue to date around."

A comic event or a theme week of JERRY SPRINGER?

Got to love how in the end, BND was all a woman's fault. Them pesky women Peter dates, they're all either crazy (Felicia Hardy, Debra Whitman, Betty Brant later had her conkers moments) or devil-dealers (Gwen slept with Osborn, MJ promises stuff to Mephisto because Peter is too much of a wuss to let his aunt die at the young age of 80 and boink his model wife). :p

[moraldeficiency]

Got to love how in the end, BND was all a woman's fault.

and her name is Joe Quesada.

[hippie_hunter]

Your right about Vision being all Kang, but if he has all of Vision 1.0 data, than he should have all the memories of the old Vision. Which could lead to some really interesting stories between Vison & Scarlet Witch.

I'd say throw Wonder-Man on NA, give them some extra power to go against the DA. I'd also put Thor on the team, especially if he loses control over Asgard.

Captain America
Thor
Luke Cage
Wonder-Man
Ms. Marvel
Spider-Man
Hawkeye/Ronin
Wolverine
Spider-Woman

With the way Slott is presenting Mighty Avengers and the way Bendis is presenting New Avengers, Thor is far better suited for the Mighty Avengers.

That said, I'm having a hard time buying the new New Avengers roster in the first place. Bucky is going off saying how these are Steve's Avengers, yet he places Wolverine on the team who Captain America was adamantly against being on the Avengers. Spider-Woman and Jessica Jones never served on the Avengers with Steve. And why the hell is Ms. Marvel leaving the Mighty Avengers for New Avengers?

And I still think that with the way Brubaker portrays Bucky, he'd be more suited for Slott's Mighty Avengers than Bendis' New Avengers.

The only ones I buy being on the team under Bucky's logic are Spider-Man, Luke Cage, Ronin, and Mockingbird.

[Upset Spideyfan]

And why the hell is Ms. Marvel leaving the Mighty Avengers for New Avengers?

Because the Mighty Avengers, at least as they originally existed, are no more.

Hank's team is an all together new entity.

[MightyAvenge]

With the way Slott is presenting Mighty Avengers and the way Bendis is presenting New Avengers, Thor is far better suited for the Mighty Avengers.

The only ones I buy being on the team under Bucky's logic are Spider-Man, Luke Cage, Ronin, and Mockingbird.

Yes Thor is much better suited for Mighty compared to New, but I'm not talking about where he fits best, I'm talking about who needs him most. The Mighty Avengers clearly aren't lacking in the firepower, the New Avengers are. The New Avengers are really no match for the Dark Avengers, The Mighty Avengers don't really need anybody else to match up to, or defeat the Dark Avengers. In the end I think that Thor could be better used on the NA instead of the MA. Thor would bring that "Avengery" feel to the book, that Slott is trying to bring over in Mighty.

[hippie_hunter]

Yes Thor is much better suited for Mighty compared to New, but I'm not talking about where he fits best, I'm talking about who needs him most. The Mighty Avengers clearly aren't lacking in the firepower, the New Avengers are. The New Avengers are really no match for the Dark Avengers, The Mighty Avengers don't really need anybody else to match up to, or defeat the Dark Avengers. In the end I think that Thor could be better used on the NA instead of the MA. Thor would bring that "Avengery" feel to the book, that Slott is trying to bring over in Mighty.

You do have a point, but I don't think Bendis has any desire to make New Avengers all Avengery. For some reason, he's pretty damn content on keeping them a street level team ever since Civil War.

[MightyAvenge]

Well my feeling is that Bendis will be gone sooner or later, hopefully sooner than later.

[Red Mask]

And why the hell is Ms. Marvel leaving the Mighty Avengers for New Avengers?

Ms. Marvel is currently on the run from the authorities. She plans to kill Norman Osborn, because she discovered his link to a corrupt C.I.A. plot that almost got her killed back in her Air Force days.

[Upset Spideyfan]

That sounds silly.

Next we'll find out Norman worked with Weapon X for years.

[hippie_hunter]

Ms. Marvel is currently on the run from the authorities. She plans to kill Norman Osborn, because she discovered his link to a corrupt C.I.A. plot that almost got her killed back in her Air Force days.

I know that, I get Ms. Marvel's book. But when you consider that Iron Man is on the run as well because he holds the knowledge of the registered superheroes' secret identities, it seems quite silly that Ms. Marvel is being put on the non-Avengery Avengers book.

[Red Mask]

That sounds silly.

Next we'll find out Norman worked with Weapon X for years.

Everybody has a link to the Weapon X program these days.

[Red Mask]

I know that, I get Ms. Marvel's book. But when you consider that Iron Man is on the run as well because he holds the knowledge of the registered superheroes' secret identities, it seems quite silly that Ms. Marvel is being put on the non-Avengery Avengers book.

That would depend on what she's fighting for. I prefer her with the New Avengers than somebody like Ares or even Sentry.

[MightyAvenge]

Why does everybody want everybody to go to the MA, why is their no love for the NA. If Marvel doesn't start putting "Real" Avengers on NA, than they might as well change their name to the Heroes 4 Hire or something. MA has plenty of good classic Avengers and they have planty of power, what would be the point in having Ms. Marvel or Thor on the MA. Like I said before, this is what I think the NA roster should be...

Captain America
Spider-Man
Luke Cage
Ms. Marvel
Ronin
Wolverine
Spider-Woman
Thor
Wonder Man

[hippie_hunter]

Because Slott is better than Bendis and would write Ms. Marvel and Spider-Man better than Bendis.

[hippie_hunter]

That would depend on what she's fighting for. I prefer her with the New Avengers than somebody like Ares or even Sentry.

Ares and Sentry are on the Dark Avengers, which is quite suited for them.

[MightyAvenge]

Because Slott is better than Bendis and would write Ms. Marvel and Spider-Man better than Bendis.


Your right about Bendis sucking balls, but Bendis will be gone eventually, so I want the NA to be ready for a new writer. In my perfect world, I would take Bendis off NA, let Slott pull dbl duty like Bendis did, and have Slott write Mighty, and have Ms. Marvel, Thor, and Wonder Man on the team. Whether Bendis is on the title or not, I simply want the NA to become more Avengery like the MA, but keep the new feel to it. NA should be classic yet New, Mighty should simply be classic. New Should be the title with characters like Spider-Man, Wolverine, Ronin (Not Hawkeye), Dr. Strange, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Sentry, Ares, DareDevil, etc... yet they should still have classic Avengers on the team or they are really not Avengers. Clint as Ronin(New) fits in NA, Clint as Hawkeye(Classic) fits on MA.

[Red Mask]

Ares and Sentry are on the Dark Avengers, which is quite suited for them.

Sentry was the most useless guy during the Secret Invasion. Stark should have lambasted him for that, and kicked him out faster than Bendix did to Union. With any luck Sentry will then kill himself and return as the Beyonder.

[Eros]

"I was pushed back into Peter Pan syndrome by my wife, who made a deal with the devil, so she could go on to date more famous people and I could continue to date around."

A comic event or a theme week of JERRY SPRINGER?

Got to love how in the end, BND was all a woman's fault. Them pesky women Peter dates, they're all either crazy (Felicia Hardy, Debra Whitman, Betty Brant later had her conkers moments) or devil-dealers (Gwen slept with Osborn, MJ promises stuff to Mephisto because Peter is too much of a wuss to let his aunt die at the young age of 80 and boink his model wife). :p

Not really, M.J. saw how desperately Peter wanted his Aunt to live, so she did the most unselfish thing in comics. Peter on the other hand, should of been a the Hero he was suppose to be, and put his foot down. All these years and you would think Peter would of learned that evil begots evil. He should of laughed in the devils face, and took him and his wife and went to be by his aunts side as she died. Thats what the spider-man I know and loved would of done, Aunt Mays death could of turned him into a Man, just like Uncle Bens death turned him into a Hero.

[hippie_hunter]

Your right about Bendis sucking balls, but Bendis will be gone eventually, so I want the NA to be ready for a new writer. In my perfect world, I would take Bendis off NA, let Slott pull dbl duty like Bendis did, and have Slott write Mighty, and have Ms. Marvel, Thor, and Wonder Man on the team. Whether Bendis is on the title or not, I simply want the NA to become more Avengery like the MA, but keep the new feel to it. NA should be classic yet New, Mighty should simply be classic. New Should be the title with characters like Spider-Man, Wolverine, Ronin (Not Hawkeye), Dr. Strange, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Sentry, Ares, DareDevil, etc... yet they should still have classic Avengers on the team or they are really not Avengers. Clint as Ronin(New) fits in NA, Clint as Hawkeye(Classic) fits on MA.

In my perfect world, Janet would still be alive, Clint would be Hawkeye, and we'd only have one Avengers book by Dan Slott, starring Captain America leading the team with Iron Man, Thor, Hank Pym, Wasp, Hulk, Spider-Man, Daredevil, (to have all of the big non Fantastic Four/X-Men names), Ms. Marvel, Wonder Man, Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, and Vision (to have those huge character moments).

[CaptainStacy]

In Amazing Spider-Man Annual #35, Reed Richards never calls him by name.


Annual #35? :huh:

[CaptainStacy]

Why does everybody want everybody to go to the MA, why is their no love for the NA. If Marvel doesn't start putting "Real" Avengers on NA, than they might as well change their name to the Heroes 4 Hire or something.

Because having two teams of classic Avengers is boring and redundant. I think two distinctly different teams, one made up of heavy-hitters, and one more suited for co-ops is far more interesting.

[BLACKVULCAN]

i just wanted to comment on the New Avengers book that came out only because you have got to kidding me. you mean to tell me that Luke Cage would make a deal with Norman Osborn to get his kid back Now after all these years with the underground Luke is suddenly a sellout.. Luke telling Osborn that he will do what ever he want?!? huh??! i sure hope Norman didnt want to bring out the gimp!Are you kidding? That was totally nonsense.Whats with Heroes all of a sudden making deals to preserve what they care about. I thought that this is what it meant to be a hero. Sacrificing your needs for others. Spider-man has done it with that deal with Mephistopheles and now Luke. Marvel has lost their freaking minds.Everything that goes along with being a hero is thrown out the window for a story. Just my venting about this whole like Loki and Doom would ever pal around/Namor looks like a bum/Luke turns into a B*#*/ Dark reign /Avengers crap I can suspend belief because its a comic but even for that, this is far far fetched.

[ragingdemon155]

i just wanted to comment on the New Avengers book that came out only because you have got to kidding me. you mean to tell me that Luke Cage would make a deal with Norman Osborn to get his kid back Now after all these years with the underground Luke is suddenly a sellout.. Luke telling Osborn that he will do what ever he want?!? huh??! i sure hope Norman didnt want to bring out the gimp!Are you kidding? That was totally nonsense.Whats with Heroes all of a sudden making deals to preserve what they care about. I thought that this is what it meant to be a hero. Sacrificing your needs for others. Spider-man has done it with that deal with Mephistopheles and now Luke. Marvel has lost their freaking minds.Everything that goes along with being a hero is thrown out the window for a story. Just my venting about this whole like Loki and Doom would ever pal around/Namor looks like a bum/Luke turns into a B*#*/ Dark reign /Avengers crap I can suspend belief because its a comic but even for that, this is far far fetched.

Spider-man's deal with Mephisto was extremely out of character on every level possible. Both situations were totally different imo. I don't have a problem with Luke Making a deal with Norman. They've kidnapped his newborn baby. He's desperate and not thinking straight. Can't get upset at that. When desperation sets in..so do questionable decisions.

[Galact-Gal]

Spider-man's deal with Mephisto was extremely out of character on every level possible. Both situations were totally different imo. I don't have a problem with Luke Making a deal with Norman. They've kidnapped his newborn baby. He's desperate and not thinking straight. Can't get upset at that. When desperation sets in..so do questionable decisions.


I agree with this. I'm sure Luke is willing to sacrifice his needs; but sacrificing his baby daughter is an entirely different matter.

[BLACKVULCAN]

i understand the "desperate time call for desperate measures and " you dont know how you will react to something until you are thrown into that situation and all that , but to go against everything that's fundamental out of your character. thats hard for me to believe. Luke has always Fought against "Da Man".Heroes are suppose to be men /women of integrity and honor.They dont make deals with the deal human or supernatural. Norman could ask him to turn on his friends maybe hurt Iron fist and i am expected that he would do that. Nope! i wouldn't buy that bridge in New york city and i wont buy that.

[CaptainCanada]

Heroes have been striking desperate alliances with villains since the genre started.

[BLACKVULCAN]

thats true, but it was that" Boo Hoo i will do whatever you boo hoo want Goblin i will sniff sniff Kiss your butt and call it green if you will sniff sniff just get my kid back" whimper whimper speech he gave!
Man! Get outta here with that! That aint my Sweet Christmas! i am going to kick your jive turkey ass back to Harlem Power Man that i know and love. Boooooooo for that!

[ragingdemon155]

i understand the "desperate time call for desperate measures and " you dont know how you will react to something until you are thrown into that situation and all that , but to go against everything that's fundamental out of your character. thats hard for me to believe. Luke has always Fought against "Da Man".Heroes are suppose to be men /women of integrity and honor.They dont make deals with the deal human or supernatural. Norman could ask him to turn on his friends maybe hurt Iron fist and i am expected that he would do that. Nope! i wouldn't buy that bridge in New york city and i wont buy that.

For your child, a parent will sacrifice anything. You don't stop and think about "integrity" and "honor". Come on now.

[BLACKVULCAN]

For your child, a parent will sacrifice anything. You don't stop and think about "integrity" and "honor". Come on now.
i dont know bro. when you got real life parents cuting their own kids heads off and drowning them in a station wagon. it depends on the person, and i dont like my Heroes making deals with bad guys. i gotta have some damn people to look up to when the real ones suck.that's too much of real life entering into my escapist domain

[Dread]

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=16174362&postcount=20

Link to my review, with heavy spoilers.

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/081226-dan-slott-hank-pym.html#comments

And a link to a Newsarama interview with Dan Slott about SI: REQUIEM.

[batnkevlar]

Luke is not the type of guy to uphold his pride and RISK HIS DAUGHTER. He's a good father, and a good father will THROW MOST IF NOT ALL MORALS TO SAVE HIS DAUGHTER.

I'd turn Punisher if I had a child and someone kidnapped them.

[Themanofbat]

Why not? It was a Mephisto spell. Having fellow heroes forget and even grow to distrust you moreso would be a downside.

It's just a mess.

Ahhh Dread, stop spreading around stuff you know little about... it's quite beneath you.

IF you had been reading ASM during 2008, you'd have known by now that Peter (along with the aid of a mystical person) did something between the end of BnB and the begining of BND (the missing 100 days that occurs when Spider-Man is laying low from Civil War) to make everybody forget his identity... perhaps this was "pushed" by Mephisto, but continuity will call out that Peter did something knowingly to make everybody forget, including all friends and enemies... and he also did something to make people from even suspecting that Peter Parker is Spider-Man, as seen in the Kraven's daughter arc and in NWTD... Peter knows that anybody knowing his identity will always haunt him in some way, which explains his silence in Iron Man #7 when Tony calls him out. Even to fellow heroes, at some point, when somebody knows, it can go downhill quickly... and that was something that Peter did to keep his friends & family safe...

But I guess it's easier to spew off ignorant internet biasedness... :whatever: :whatever: :whatever:

:yay:

[Dread]

You're STILL waiting for an explanation to storyline holes from almost two years ago in ASM? Man, if that isn't a sign of making things up as they go, I don't know what is.

But, I really would rather not argue. You like BND and I was never interested. It just seems and feels like a sham. After a deal with the devil, whether on Peter or MJ's part, it's hard to sit back and enjoy modern/retro bachelor tales. But that's just me. I'm glad you're enjoying it. About 65-75k readers a week are, so you're not alone.

I won't comment on Luke Cage here because I haven't read NA and he isn't a Mighty Avenger. ;)

[TheCorpulent1]

Luke is not the type of guy to uphold his pride and RISK HIS DAUGHTER. He's a good father, and a good father will THROW MOST IF NOT ALL MORALS TO SAVE HIS DAUGHTER.

I'd turn Punisher if I had a child and someone kidnapped them.
I haven't read it so I don't know the exact situation, but was it not possible at all for Luke to come up with a 3rd option besides being a solid, upstanding hero or making a deal with Norman to save his kid?

[Dread]

I haven't read it so I don't know the exact situation, but was it not possible at all for Luke to come up with a 3rd option besides being a solid, upstanding hero or making a deal with Norman to save his kid?

Silly Corp, modern Marvel rarely offers reasonable 3rd options. It usually is either "be a pure hero" or "make a deal with the devil, sometimes literally, when the going gets tough". I'm sure there was, but for story convenience (Dark Reign), it wasn't taken.

[Themanofbat]

You're STILL waiting for an explanation to storyline holes from almost two years ago in ASM? Man, if that isn't a sign of making things up as they go, I don't know what is.

So what? Even if they are, it's irrelevant to me... when BND started, I was pissed at the continuity flaws that occured, but I gave Marvel the benefit of the doubt, as we were being told that explanations were coming... I knew the first 4 months were going to be "basic stories" for the new writers to get their feet wet, so I gave myself a 12 to 18 month wait for proper explanations.

And here we are 12 months later with a few big ones explained with resonable excuses and ties into Spidey continuity quite well, which is a far better scenario than what Marvel does with its other books.

But, I really would rather not argue. You like BND and I was never interested. It just seems and feels like a sham. After a deal with the devil, whether on Peter or MJ's part, it's hard to sit back and enjoy modern/retro bachelor tales. But that's just me. I'm glad you're enjoying it. About 65-75k readers a week are, so you're not alone.

We're arguing? :huh:

It doesn't bother me if you don't read it, but with your obvious level of comic book lore and knowledge, especially Marvel's, it just irks me when you make ignorant comments about a book you don't read... it's not fair to younger greenhorns that may read/respect your comments, and they might want to read ASM, but feel like they shouldn't on account of your comments, and really, I would rather somebody decide for themselves on what books they should read rather than being influenced by people who don't even read them...

I won't comment on Luke Cage here because I haven't read NA and he isn't a Mighty Avenger. ;)

Nor have I... :yay:

:csad:

[CaptainStacy]

You're STILL waiting for an explanation to storyline holes from almost two years ago in ASM? Man, if that isn't a sign of making things up as they go, I don't know what is.


:huh: "Two years"?

BND just celebrated one full year of issues. Hardly a drop in the ocean considering the wait to close plot holes Spidey fans went through during the Clone Saga. :yay:

[Spider-ManHero12]

The latest issue of Mighty Avengers kicked butt. 'Nuff said.

[Dread]

:huh: "Two years"?

BND just celebrated one full year of issues. Hardly a drop in the ocean considering the wait to close plot holes Spidey fans went through during the Clone Saga. :yay:

You're arguing, "Hey, it's better than the Clone Saga"?

Good lord.

For the record, NO COMIC BOOK STORY, EVER, except for the Bendis/Bagley "Ultimate Clone Saga", was handled worse than the original 90's Clone Saga. From insulting longtime fans to needless twists to overcomplicated characters that fizzled down to nothing (Judas Traveler, Spidercide), that was the definition of Spider-Mess.

And why was it done? To, basically, push "married Spider-Man" into the sunset in favor of Reilly, who was bachelor Spider-Man.

A decade later, and under a new EIC, the Spider-verse would again be turned upside down just to get around that marriage.

[Themanofbat]

You're arguing, "Hey, it's better than the Clone Saga"?

Good lord.

For the record, NO COMIC BOOK STORY, EVER, except for the Bendis/Bagley "Ultimate Clone Saga", was handled worse than the original 90's Clone Saga. From insulting longtime fans to needless twists to overcomplicated characters that fizzled down to nothing (Judas Traveler, Spidercide), that was the definition of Spider-Mess.

And why was it done? To, basically, push "married Spider-Man" into the sunset in favor of Reilly, who was bachelor Spider-Man.

A decade later, and under a new EIC, the Spider-verse would again be turned upside down just to get around that marriage.

I think he was questioning your "two years" comment, when BND has just completed its first year.

:yay:

[Dread]

I think he was questioning your "two years" comment, when BND has just completed its first year.

:yay:

It's FELT like two years. :p

[CaptainStacy]

You're arguing, "Hey, it's better than the Clone Saga"?


Again with the arguing? No one's "arguing" with you, dude. Relax. :yay:

read Bat's last post to see what i was referring to. :yay:

[Dread]

Again with the arguing? No one's "arguing" with you, dude. Relax. :yay:

read Bat's last post to see what i was referring to. :yay:

I just meant like a point being argued, a position. Not a fight. Don't worry.

I erred on the time line a bit. Still, it isn't my bag and never will be.

[BLACKVULCAN]

i will have to say that and me never! ever! being a Hank Pym fan as Corp knows hehe.That his taking on the Wasp's identity was pretty freaking cool!i just read that avengers book after learning about it from you guys and that was a pretty alright thing to do.Plus you gotta be a bad Mofo if you take on a chick's identity cause you know the bad guys are going to have a field day on his ass. i have to admit his wife beating stock went down for me after reading that. i approve of him carrying on her legacy.

[Dread]

I scimmed some of the reactions to Slott's interview at NEWSARAMA and the opinions about the rename are mixed, naturally. Some are even outraged that Pym basically gets to take on the mantle of the wife he once abused, or that he is a W.A.S.P. himself.

Me? I just see it as step backwards in his identity quest and a bit of a overzealous way to mourn. It is the opposite of what Janet herself would have wanted for Hank. That stuff is more of a caveat to me than it basically being a sissy thing to do, name yourself after a girl, but there's that, too.

Still, from Slott's words to Jocasta's reaction, this isn't some unplanned thing. This is part of a character plot for Pym and Slott is more than aware of the reactions from fans and those in the Marvel Universe, so I can sit back for a bit and call it a stage of grief. Some people get drunk, others wear their ex's clothes, I guess. ;) Maybe after a while as "He-Wasp" Pym will get to a point in his life where he can move on, feel he has honored her enough and become Doctor Pym, bad-ass size altering science whiz hero.

[BLACKVULCAN]

others wear their ex's clothes, I guess.. Haha oh hell no! plus i Burned all of hers after the divorce anyway.
Yellowjacket was a female for awhile. Pesonally i always dug YJ out of all the identities Pym had anyway. "Wasp" really isnt a gender specific codename so I can let it go and after beating the crap out of girl. i think he owes it to her. Burn their clothes! good idea, beating them to a pulp bad idea.
we all know that she will come back, (especially if
the book don't sell). if Bucky wasnt so well received Steve would've been back already. nobody ever stays dead anymore in comics.

[CaptainStacy]

Haha oh hell no! plus i Burned all of hers after the divorce anyway.
Yellowjacket was a female for awhile. Pesonally i always dug YJ out of all the identities Pym had anyway. "Wasp" really isnt a gender specific codename so I can let it go and after beating the crap out of girl. i think he owes it to her. Burn their clothes! good idea, beating them to a pulp bad idea.
we all know that she will come back, (especially if
the book don't sell).

Oh, it's gonna sell. Don't worry about THAT. :word:

About Jan returning; i agree. That's the thing about being "teleported away"...it leaves the door open (as it were) for the character to make a comeback.

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't get why people are so paranoid about characters coming back. They're comics! Odds are, everyone's gonna come back at some point. Just enjoy what they do with their absence if it's good and don't worry about the rest.

As for Pym's identities, I always liked Giant-Man. It's kind of dorky, so it totally suits a science-guy like Hank, and it's pretty much the only name that hasn't been co-opted by someone else. Plus, most of my favorite costumes for Hank come from times he was using the Giant-Man name.

[RockSP]

and it's pretty much the only name that hasn't been co-opted by someone else.

Bill Foster had the name as well.

[Galact-Gal]

Haha oh hell no! plus i Burned all of hers after the divorce anyway.
Yellowjacket was a female for awhile. Pesonally i always dug YJ out of all the identities Pym had anyway. "Wasp" really isnt a gender specific codename so I can let it go and after beating the crap out of girl. i think he owes it to her. Burn their clothes! good idea, beating them to a pulp bad idea.
we all know that she will come back, (especially if
the book don't sell). if Bucky wasnt so well received Steve would've been back already. nobody ever stays dead anymore in comics.



616 Hank Pym did not beat Jan to a pulp! He backhanded her one time. That was certainly a terrible thing to do, but it was not the same thing as beating her up.

P.S. Doug Ramsey is still dead (sniff); and, no ,I don't count Douglok.

[TheCorpulent1]

Bill Foster had the name as well.
Really? I thought he just went by Goliath or Black Goliath.

[RockSP]

Yeah all of Pym's names were co-opted by others. His next name should be S@*t For Brains Man...let's see if that one gets snatched up.

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, he'll always have "Dr. Pym" and the purple jumpsuit. :)

[BLACKVULCAN]

616 Hank Pym did not beat Jan to a pulp! He backhanded her one time.. okay. so he only backhanded "B*^%# better have my money" pimp slapped her that made THOR get up from the table" beat her. this wasn't about that it anyways( Corp will tell you i already been down that lane). it was about how homeboy cool factor went up with me a couple of points by taking her identity as wasp.
The ONLY death i ever cared about was Mar-Vell i was a kid and reading that had me bawling. it was sad and poetic and i was really peeved when they brought him back thru "that rip in time" later to be revealed as a Skrull. i just think that if Heroes die and stay dead. then their deaths have a bigger impact on the reader.If they die and come back all the time then you start becoming like me. wow.. geez.. oh my god.. "yawn" they died. what issue will they come back in?cause i might pick it up:cwink:

[TheCorpulent1]

okay. so he only backhanded "B*^%# better have my money" pimp slapped her that made THOR get up from the table" beat her. this wasn't about that it anyways( Corp will tell you i already been down that lane). it was about how homeboy cool factor went up with me a couple of points by taking her identity as wasp.
The ONLY death i ever cared about was Mar-Vell i was a kid and reading that had me bawling. it was sad and poetic and i was really peeved when they brought him back thru "that rip in time" later to be revealed as a Skrull. i just think that if Heroes die and stay dead. then their deaths have a bigger impact on the reader.If they die and come back all the time then you start becoming like me. wow.. geez.. oh my god.. "yawn" they died. what issue will they come back in?cause i might pick it up:cwink:
And that's why they keep coming back. :)

[BLACKVULCAN]

yeah i guess i am a glutton for punishment too.
maybe i should have taken up cigarettes instead of comics as a kid. they are healthier.:woot:

[Dread]

I don't get why people are so paranoid about characters coming back. They're comics! Odds are, everyone's gonna come back at some point. Just enjoy what they do with their absence if it's good and don't worry about the rest.

As for Pym's identities, I always liked Giant-Man. It's kind of dorky, so it totally suits a science-guy like Hank, and it's pretty much the only name that hasn't been co-opted by someone else. Plus, most of my favorite costumes for Hank come from times he was using the Giant-Man name.

Well, when someone makes a big deal about "honoring a legacy", if said character does come back, it does kind of make that tenure of "legacy honoring" kind of worthless. Just ask Wally West or Kyle Rayner. :up: Although Janet coming back honestly wouldn't muck things up as much as Steve returning would muck Bucky up, IMO. Like some have said, she has a few "in's". No corpse, after all. While Steve Rogers had a corpse, a burial, Thor spoke to his spirit, and Bucky has had to rise up and try to fill the boots.

I admit I always liked Giant-Man better out of a few of those names, too. But I'd be happy with a return to the WCA "Doctor Pym" days. Everyone calls him that, he wasn't limited by shrinking or growing alone, and he seemed more well rounded. In some ways Slott wants to steer towards that power level 80%, he's just having Hank go a little obsessive with his mourning in the immediate future. And, again, so long as that is a rung on the ladder rather than a final step, it can work. If it took Hardball about 18 months to realize all he ever wanted was to rule HYDRA, then it may take about that long that if "He-Wasp" really wanted to honor Janet's memory to the fullest, he'd acknowledge his achievements and would stop obsessing over his failures, and would have confidence in his own identity; Dr. Hank Pym, founding Avenger.

[K.B.]

I thought that this was the best and strongest issue of Mighty Avengers bBendis had written in his 20 issue run.

[Colossal Spoons]

When the frick does the next issue come out?

[RockSP]

A month after the last one.

[Colossal Spoons]

Ha, cuz we all know that rule is set in stone as far as comics are concerned.

[RockSP]

Exactly.

Ultimate Hulk Vs. Wolverine proves that.

[Colossal Spoons]

Can't believe they had the balls to continue that book

[Mr. Green]

At least I'll finally get the rest...

[TheCorpulent1]

I really want to see the new team's adventures begin. God, I've missed some classic Avengers action in my comics.

[Mr. Green]

I don't know if it will be that good. At least not compared to Bendis' work on Avengers.







:woot::woot::woot::woot::woot:

[moraldeficiency]

that's true the bar's been set pretty high after that symbiote bomb, you don't get much better than that.

[Colossal Spoons]

I really want to see the new team's adventures begin. God, I've missed some classic Avengers action in my comics.

Yeah. Disassembled was my first time getting into Avengers comics and the new MA looks like it'll be the closest to the "good old days" we've seen in a while.

[TheCorpulent1]

It's the first post-Disassembled Avengers title I don't feel the need to specify "Mighty" or "New" or whatever with. They're the Avengers, doing Avengery things in Avengery ways. It'll be great to finally have a team that's true to the classic spirit back. :up:

[Franklin Richards]

No Jan is like a turd in the punch bowl.

:(


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[TheCorpulent1]

I'd be upset about it if it weren't such a major part of the new team's backstory. It may have been just a shock death in the context of Secret Invasion, but Slott's picked up the ball and run with it in some great ways, and it's informing a lot of what the Mighty Avengers are about. I'm really enjoying the work he's doing with Hank in the wake of Jan's death.

[CaptainCanada]

Meh. I really don't care about her either way; she was always an afterthought as a "founding avenger".

[TheCorpulent1]

If not for Avengers Forever and some other stories, I might agree. She came into her own and made the "founding Avenger" title really mean something, though. It may be sexist to say this out loud (figuratively speaking), but I'm glad she was killed off and not Hank because, frankly, she was the much stronger character of the two. Hank is now being strengthened by her death and hopefully Slott will finally move him beyond being the butt of every wifebeater joke again, much like Byrne and others did with Avengers West Coast way back in the '80s before Johns and Bendis undid all that.

[RockSP]

hopefully Slott will finally move him beyond being the butt of every wifebeater joke again, much like Byrne and others did with Avengers West Coast way back in the '80s before Johns and Bendis undid all that.

:huh:How'd Johns undo it? They were a couple during his short-lived run.

[TheCorpulent1]

He put Hank back into the Yellowjacket costume and brought up the whole wifebeating incident because Hank was supposedly going to somehow redeem the Yellowjacket identity or some nonsense. It was one very stupid part of what was otherwise a solid but short Avengers run from Johns.

[Colossal Spoons]

It's the first post-Disassembled Avengers title I don't feel the need to specify "Mighty" or "New" or whatever with. They're the Avengers, doing Avengery things in Avengery ways. It'll be great to finally have a team that's true to the classic spirit back. :up:

I never imagined all those people on the same team. Should be interesting.

[Dread]

MIGHTY AVENGERS #21 is due to come out on Jan. 21st.

I agree that this is probably the most anticipated Avengers title run for me since I started collecting comics again when I went to college in 2000. Dan Slott has a wealth of experience and heart for the title and he's committed to restoring Hank Pym as an interesting and dynamic character. I like 80% of what he has done with Hank so far and that is far better than a lot of other writers have done. I don't see the name switch as permanent as Slott is writing a Pym who obviously has to go along stages of grieving, whether that means having Jocasta pretend to be Janet for a dinner or even wearing Janet's costume into battle. I doubt it will last beyond 18 months and in that time I will imagine Hank may have grown a great deal.

Plus, this title seems to not only want to capture the old magic of the Avengers, but rebuild some of those bridges burnt from CIVIL WAR. Both Hercules and Iron Man are wanted by the feds; now the enemies have to become allies again.

[Red Mask]

No Jan is like a turd in the punch bowl.



Thank god I don't go to your parties. :funny:

[hippie_hunter]

I'm really looking forward to Slott's Avengers. Though based on Mighty Avengers #20, I really wish that Thor will end up joining the team. Pham's Thor looked awesome.

[Dread]

Yeah, Thor would have been nice. But with a roster of Pym, Jocasta, Hercules, U.S. Agent, Vision II, Scarlet Witch, and Stature, they probably wanted to keep the power level almost manageable so that they wouldn't need to fight the Eternals every week to be challenged. ;)

Plus, Slott may not have been able to "get" Thor from JMS. After all, it was noted he originally wanted Beast on the roster, but the X-folks said no. Plus, Thor is technically busy running Asgard in Oklahoma and waiting for Loki to inevitably back-stab him.

I mean, out of that entire bunch, Wanda is the only one who doesn't have some degree of superhuman strength (or can't gain it).

But, yeah, I think anticipation for this has been through the roof, at least gauging online buzz. Hopefully it translates to sales buzz. MA has been selling well throughout but usually sells 20k or so less than NEW AVENGERS. It would be awesome it Slott's run could help it gain ground with the parent title.

[cerealkiller182]

Damn dude I would have loved to see Beast on the Avengers

Why the hell can Wolverine pull quintaple duty in the Marvel books but Beast cant even get 2

I guess this further proves that old picture posted a ways back with an Avengers team locked up that had most of the first 2 cover issue characters locked up plus beast.

[Franklin Richards]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/AuntPetunia/Fantastic%20Four/Comic%20Scans/avengersEvolineup.jpg


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Colossal Spoons]

As far as mutants go, I'd like to see Darwin on an Avengers team

[cerealkiller182]

there it is!

Its almost all right there, Hulk, Hanks in Jans identity (instead of the other way around), Herc, Jocasta, USAgent, and almost Beast. Too bad Falcon couldnt be on the team. He needs to stretch his legs a little.

With Stature and Vision on the Mighty Avengers whats going to happen to the rest of the Young Avengers. Patriot and Hawkeye COULD join the New Avengers but I doubt it would be a permanent basis. But what about Wiccan and Hulkling, War of Kings maybe, probably pushing it with that though.

[Colossal Spoons]

Yeah, the rest of the YAs are gettin screwed most likely

[Dread]

Damn dude I would have loved to see Beast on the Avengers

Why the hell can Wolverine pull quintaple duty in the Marvel books but Beast cant even get 2

I guess this further proves that old picture posted a ways back with an Avengers team locked up that had most of the first 2 cover issue characters locked up plus beast.

We've had arguments like that, too. Storm was able to appear in FANTASTIC FOUR and BLACK PANTHER, as well as occasional guest stints in some X-Books, within a year period and no one seemed to get upset. But, X-Editorial is hypocritical with some mutants and "blending".

Still, a Beast on the team without Wonder Man would only be half as fun.

there it is!

Its almost all right there, Hulk, Hanks in Jans identity (instead of the other way around), Herc, Jocasta, USAgent, and almost Beast. Too bad Falcon couldnt be on the team. He needs to stretch his legs a little.

With Stature and Vision on the Mighty Avengers whats going to happen to the rest of the Young Avengers. Patriot and Hawkeye COULD join the New Avengers but I doubt it would be a permanent basis. But what about Wiccan and Hulkling, War of Kings maybe, probably pushing it with that though.

Yeah, the rest of the YAs are gettin screwed most likely

To be fair, the YOUNG AVENGERS have been getting screwed ever since it became obvious that Allen Heinberg couldn't or wouldn't return to write any more YA comics, and Marvel didn't have much inclination to continue an ongoing without him. To their credit, they involved the YA in key roles/mini's for CIVIL WAR and SECRET INVASION in his absence. They average one 4-6 issue mini series a year, or one-shot, or whatever. Artist/co-creator Cheung has remained involved via cover art for aforementioned mini's.

The result? Sales for YA mini's sold 50% less last year than they did in 2006, even with some A-List talent involved. Franky, I think the heat has cooled too long on that franchise, and even if Heinberg returned, I doubt a second ongoing would last long. Especially if he continues his habit of excessive delays after 2-4 issues.

Heinberg is talented, but clearly sees comic book writing as a paid hobby and isn't going to compromise precious TV writing work for it. The only work he turned in on time in years was the arc of JLA he co-wrote with Geoff Johns after IDENTITY CRISIS. If anything has been learned since YA volume one wrapped, it is that other writers are capable of handling the characters, and if anything is to be done with the lot of them, or even some of them, best to do it now before all interest is gone.

The YA as a whole will reportedly show up in MA #21, according to peaks at some script pages on Joe Q's blog a few months ago. For all we know, learning her kids are alive may be part of Wanda's "therapy". Stature and Vision II at least will be spoken for, and the others may make cameo's for all we know.

My point is that the bunch of them need to move on and do something before they fade into limbo. At least Slott is doing what he can to add them to their legacy.

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't know if this has been posted before, but I just read this interview with Slott about MA #21 (http://www.newsarama.com/comics/120805-Mighty-Slott.html). I like that he describes it as an event unto itself, since that's exactly what it feels like: this is the rebirth of the classic Avengers.

Anyway, the reason I bring it up is because Slott mentions that the Avengers are going to get a base in #26 that's very Avengery but we've never seen before (I'm assuming he means as an Avengers base). My first thought was a space station, but that's pretty Justice League-ish and Iron Man just gave War Machine a satellite as a base of operations, so it might not feel too unique for the Avengers to operate out of one as well. So I thought a little more and came up with an interesting possibility: Limbo. Think about it--they've got the Vision, who's got access to Kang's armor and its abilities, and Limbo is a very Avengery place for anyone who's read one of Kang's many Avengers stories. They'd have instant access to anywhere on Earth, too.

Granted, the fact that they've got the Scarlet Witch on the team means they could operate out of literally anywhere, since Wanda could just create a pocket universe or whatever for them, but I don't think Slott would do that and I don't think any of the other characters would be very comfortable with Wanda flaunting her powers that much in light of Avengers Disassembled.

[THANOSRULES]

or the negative Zone?

[Franklin Richards]

That's a "Fantastic Foury" place.


:ff: :ff: :ff:

[Vanguard07]

Hmmm. I like the Limbo idea. Good call. It also seeds a likely encounter with Kang in a future arc which i'm always all for.

They unintentionally end up in a turf war for Limbo with the Conquerer himself.

[Franklin Richards]

I prefer Rama Tut. :D


:ff: :ff: :ff:

[Dread]

I don't know if this has been posted before, but I just read this interview with Slott about MA #21 (http://www.newsarama.com/comics/120805-Mighty-Slott.html). I like that he describes it as an event unto itself, since that's exactly what it feels like: this is the rebirth of the classic Avengers.

Anyway, the reason I bring it up is because Slott mentions that the Avengers are going to get a base in #26 that's very Avengery but we've never seen before (I'm assuming he means as an Avengers base). My first thought was a space station, but that's pretty Justice League-ish and Iron Man just gave War Machine a satellite as a base of operations, so it might not feel too unique for the Avengers to operate out of one as well. So I thought a little more and came up with an interesting possibility: Limbo. Think about it--they've got the Vision, who's got access to Kang's armor and its abilities, and Limbo is a very Avengery place for anyone who's read one of Kang's many Avengers stories. They'd have instant access to anywhere on Earth, too.

Granted, the fact that they've got the Scarlet Witch on the team means they could operate out of literally anywhere, since Wanda could just create a pocket universe or whatever for them, but I don't think Slott would do that and I don't think any of the other characters would be very comfortable with Wanda flaunting her powers that much in light of Avengers Disassembled.

I read that interview, and you're damn right Slott on MIGHTY AVENGERS is an event! A solid roster with a good writer who isn't afraid of continuity and character history, but embraces it? Rock on!

I sort of imagined that Slott meant something like Stingray's Hydrobase, as lord knows Stingray could use some exposure. But Limbo is an interesting possibility. It would sort of separate the Avengers from the people they are supposed to protect, though, but so do towers or satellite bases anyway.

Limbo would fit in with the Kang stuff. Although wouldn't that mean they would run into any of Kang's minions that he may have left over between attacks? Like Space Phantom or those warriors he used to have? Seems to be a lot to set up a base. ;)

[Vanguard07]

Technically no. Limbo (Specifically the Kang/time travel related Limbo) is infinitely big and doesnt exist in linear time. The chances of actually bumping into any specific person or thing are practically impossible unless you were guided directly towards it by some powerful mystic or technological means.

Everyone that ever lived could each have their own base in Limbo and never see each other.

[Dread]

I see. I always get my Limbo's confused.

It's a good theory, but I don't quite see it happening. Of course, Corp was right about something that CB&MI13 revealed this week, so who knows. ;)

[Vanguard07]

Damn...I collect CB&MI13 but I dont know what you're referring to.
I was really hungover this morning and I didnt have to go to work so I just stayed in bed. The downside being this is the first wednesday where I didn't go get my comics in like 5 years. I'm starting to go crazy from withdrawal already.

[Vanguard07]

I see. I always get my Limbo's confused.


Yeah I always used to wonder if Magik/Belasco's Limbo was just a different area of the same one that Kang and Immortus hang their hats in or if it's just a different place that just happens to have the same name.

[Franklin Richards]

They should have called Belasco's Realm the Ethereal Plane or the Abyss.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[THANOSRULES]

Hasnt every cool base idea been done?

I think the JLA already did the Limbo base thing too, didnt they get it from Prometheus and use it for awhile..I forgot.

Hell even Starbucks was a base for NA.

[Colossal Spoons]

I don't know if this has been posted before, but I just read this interview with Slott about MA #21 (http://www.newsarama.com/comics/120805-Mighty-Slott.html). I like that he describes it as an event unto itself, since that's exactly what it feels like: this is the rebirth of the classic Avengers.

Anyway, the reason I bring it up is because Slott mentions that the Avengers are going to get a base in #26 that's very Avengery but we've never seen before (I'm assuming he means as an Avengers base). My first thought was a space station, but that's pretty Justice League-ish and Iron Man just gave War Machine a satellite as a base of operations, so it might not feel too unique for the Avengers to operate out of one as well. So I thought a little more and came up with an interesting possibility: Limbo. Think about it--they've got the Vision, who's got access to Kang's armor and its abilities, and Limbo is a very Avengery place for anyone who's read one of Kang's many Avengers stories. They'd have instant access to anywhere on Earth, too.

Granted, the fact that they've got the Scarlet Witch on the team means they could operate out of literally anywhere, since Wanda could just create a pocket universe or whatever for them, but I don't think Slott would do that and I don't think any of the other characters would be very comfortable with Wanda flaunting her powers that much in light of Avengers Disassembled.

If we're talking about the same Limbo, nobody's gonna wanna go there for a long time. There's a lot of X-Men-y stuff goin on w/ that place and it's pretty jacked up.

Yeah I always used to wonder if Magik/Belasco's Limbo was just a different area of the same one that Kang and Immortus hang their hats in or if it's just a different place that just happens to have the same name.

I'm curious as well.

[TheCorpulent1]

Damn...I collect CB&MI13 but I dont know what you're referring to.
He's talking about my suggestion that the Meggan Captain Britain encountered in Plokta's Dream Corridor was really Meggan and Captain Britain accidentally dismissed her as a fantasy without realizing it. :cool:
Yeah I always used to wonder if Magik/Belasco's Limbo was just a different area of the same one that Kang and Immortus hang their hats in or if it's just a different place that just happens to have the same name.
If we're talking about the same Limbo, nobody's gonna wanna go there for a long time. There's a lot of X-Men-y stuff goin on w/ that place and it's pretty jacked up.



I'm curious as well.
Different places. From what I understand, Magik's Limbo is an extension of Hell, just like Mephisto's realm and Hela's realm. Immortus/Kang's Limbo is the infinite space outside of time. If anyone watches Doctor Who, it'd basically be like the Void in that show, only it doesn't drive people crazy or eat away at their bodies.

[CaptainCanada]

So I thought a little more and came up with an interesting possibility: Limbo. Think about it--they've got the Vision, who's got access to Kang's armor and its abilities, and Limbo is a very Avengery place for anyone who's read one of Kang's many Avengers stories. They'd have instant access to anywhere on Earth, too.
Sounds a lot like the Authority operating out of the Bleed.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, that was a really cool aspect of the Authority. I figure the Mighty Avengers will probably need the quick transportation too, since they'll probably be hunted by HAMMER and the Dark Avengers.

[Upset Spideyfan]

So we know Ultron is popping up.

I wonder how long it'll be before we see Kang pop back in.

[RockSP]

Hopefully Slott will come with some new villains.

[TheCorpulent1]

Maybe now and then, but I'd prefer to see some Avengers all-star villains come back. I've had enough "new" villains for the Avengers with the Hand and other heroes and rogue SHIELD agents and stuff. I want a back-to-basics approach.

Of course, if Slott does decide to use new villains a lot, I'd be open to that too.
So we know Ultron is popping up.

I wonder how long it'll be before we see Kang pop back in.
If my theory on the base is right, Kang could be the villain in the first story.

[Upset Spideyfan]

Hopefully Slott will come with some new villains.

I would be shocked if he didn't, but it would nice to see the Avengers actually fight some Avengers' villains again.

[RockSP]

Eh...I'm not one of those "hero x should only fight villain z" types.

[Upset Spideyfan]

Neither am I, but for the last several years the Avengers haven't fought any of their villains (with the exception of boob-Ultron).

[TheCorpulent1]

After years of Bendis having the heroes fight each other or random thugs, I'm ready for some villain Z action again. I don't need to see the Avengers face down the Masters of Evil every other arc, but once every few years would be nice.

[RockSP]

for the last several years the Avengers haven't fought any of their villains (with the exception of boob-Ultron).

Yeah, well...Bendis.

[TheCorpulent1]

That about sums it up.

[Dread]

He's talking about my suggestion that the Meggan Captain Britain encountered in Plokta's Dream Corridor was really Meggan and Captain Britain accidentally dismissed her as a fantasy without realizing it. :cool:


Different places. From what I understand, Magik's Limbo is an extension of Hell, just like Mephisto's realm and Hela's realm. Immortus/Kang's Limbo is the infinite space outside of time. If anyone watches Doctor Who, it'd basically be like the Void in that show, only it doesn't drive people crazy or eat away at their bodies.

Exactly.

Yeah, Magik's Limbo is different than Kang's Limbo; the recent Handbooks have noted that several times.

Maybe now and then, but I'd prefer to see some Avengers all-star villains come back. I've had enough "new" villains for the Avengers with the Hand and other heroes and rogue SHIELD agents and stuff. I want a back-to-basics approach.

Of course, if Slott does decide to use new villains a lot, I'd be open to that too.

If my theory on the base is right, Kang could be the villain in the first story.

It would make sense. We haven't seen Kang since the first YOUNG AVENGERS arc, which was about 3-4 years ago. Vision II essentially is a modified version of Kang's armor and is programmed with the mind of someone who was basically "Young Kang". Kang was interested in recruiting a younger version of himself as a sidekick and may still be interested in that. Plus, it has been a while since he attacked something.

As for Ultron, it would be cool if he still had his "Great Ultron" design. It was a good revamp for him. It also would be a good chance for him to brag about having killed Moondragon. She was hardly someone a lot of them knew intimately, but several of Slott's team would have gone on a few adventures with her. Kind of like if you went to work and one of your enemies said, "Yeah, y'know that girl in the cubicle down the hall who you barely know, but went to a few meetings with? Yeah, I killed her with one punch. And now I want more." Besides, it was about time Ultron actually killed one of the Avengers, considering how many superheroes were past, present, or reserve Avengers.

I could do with some Avengers villains myself. As has been mentioned, I do tire of heroes vs. heroes or Bendis' insistence that heroes usually fail to beat the big bad when it counts, and need to be saved by another bad, or luck.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, I liked Ultron's Phalanx redesign. I wouldn't mind if he kept the Phalanx powers and all, in fact. Maybe ditch the cape to cut him back down to size a bit. ;)

As for Kang, it could be a simple matter of wanting to reclaim his property. Why let all his technology rest in the hands of his greatest enemies?

[CaptainCanada]

If my theory on the base is right, Kang could be the villain in the first story.
The script preview referred to some sort of big magic threat, which doesn't sound like Kang.

[Dread]

Kang may not be their FIRST threat with the new line up, but he is likely along the way. So long as it is done well, I can be patient.

[Upset Spideyfan]

OH! OH! OH!

What if Kang and Ultron both got combined through a fallout effect into Kangtron (of course as a female version of the two of them) and then he ate Stature!

Instant #1 on the charts.

[CaptainCanada]

Preview of #21 (http://comics.ign.com/articles/945/945699p1.html)

Pham's art looks good.

Kinda heavy on third-person narration.

[GNR]

Preview of #21 (http://comics.ign.com/articles/945/945699p1.html)

Pham's art looks good.

Kinda heavy on third-person narration.

Slott's dialogue hasn't always been one of his strengths and it really shows in that preview.Pham's art is hit or miss with me.

[Dread]

Preview of #21 (http://comics.ign.com/articles/945/945699p1.html)

Pham's art looks good.

Kinda heavy on third-person narration.

Yeah, I see some improvement in the art from the REQUIEM issue. Maybe more time, and a better inker?

I think the narration and dialogue are fine. It feels a lot more like an Avengers story than quite a few I have read from Bendis. He just doesn't understand how to write outright superhero stories; it all has to be urban trench stuff. Slott on the other hand, gets it.

[Upset Spideyfan]

Papa want.

[TheCorpulent1]

Crap, I want more. That was great.

[Dread]

As for the differences between REQUIEM and this issue art wise, no inker is credited with the REQUIEM pages, while MIGHTY AVENGERS #21 at least is inked by Danny Miki. He's inked many titles and has been inking MA since issue #7, at least. Inkers DO matter.

Next week can't come quick enough!

The first story, according to solicts, will be 3 issues long and not every member on the covers may actually make the *final* cut. Part of me doubts the Hulk stays long.

[SouLeSS]

Sucked, not interested at all.

Blargh.

[TheCorpulent1]

As for the differences between REQUIEM and this issue art wise, no inker is credited with the REQUIEM pages, while MIGHTY AVENGERS #21 at least is inked by Danny Miki. He's inked many titles and has been inking MA since issue #7, at least. Inkers DO matter.

Next week can't come quick enough!

The first story, according to solicts, will be 3 issues long and not every member on the covers may actually make the *final* cut. Part of me doubts the Hulk stays long.
I'm thinking the final team will probably wind up being Hank, Jocasta (those two are givens), Vision, Stature, Scarlet Witch, US Agent, maybe Herc, and probably some or all of the "surprise" characters Slott has mentioned for that first arc. Of course, I'm hoping one of them is Thor, but I don't think that's likely.

[JustABill]

My problem is of all the Young Avengers to potentially put on the team he chose Stature and Vision. Probably the least two interesting of the group.

[TheCorpulent1]

That's debatable, but they are certainly the ones with the most ties to the central figure of the Mighty Avengers. Stature herself said she's basically following in the Wasp's footsteps, and the Vision is technically Hank's great-grandson and Jocasta's... nephew? I have trouble categorizing android relationships.

[Dread]

I'm thinking the final team will probably wind up being Hank, Jocasta (those two are givens), Vision, Stature, Scarlet Witch, US Agent, maybe Herc, and probably some or all of the "surprise" characters Slott has mentioned for that first arc. Of course, I'm hoping one of them is Thor, but I don't think that's likely.

It is possible. I am thinking Iron Man would probably stay as the "money" character. He has to start rebuilding bridges somewhere.

My problem is of all the Young Avengers to potentially put on the team he chose Stature and Vision. Probably the least two interesting of the group.

Which is a good reason why they are on the team, to get more development.

Frankly, Stature's placement is almost a no-brainer. For a teenage girl, she's seen her share of Marvel history. Her father was Ant-Man and she spent time with the Avengers as well as the Fantastic Four (Doom's self proclaimed heir, Kristoff, had a crush on her for ages, but he's been in limbo for a decade). Her joining the ranks of Avengers is cool legacy stuff.

As for Vision, well, the Avengers feel off without some version of Vision with them. Like the Justice League without J'onn.

[TheCorpulent1]

Oh, right, Iron Man. I forgot he was even on the team for the first arc. Yeah, he'll probably stick around as well. Slott's been very specific that Tony's a fugitive in America, and he's alluded to the idea that the Avengers' new base might not be in America.

[Dread]

Your idea of Limbo is interesting, but part of me sees some potential in Hydrobase. Stingray is the sort of C-List fellow that Slott usually loves to put into key supporting roles. Besides, I wouldn't mind seeing him get some play.

[TheCorpulent1]

I was never too partial to Stingray. Didn't the Avengers already use the Hydrobase at some point, too?

[CaptainCanada]

Based on interviews with Pak and VL, I don't think Herc's presence is transient.

Hulk I don't expect to stick around; the Avengers never fit his character, and Loeb's not through raping him up the ass yet.

[RockSP]

Hulk I don't expect to stick around; the Avengers never fit his character, and Loeb's not through raping him up the ass yet.

Loeb has barely used The Hulk...he's a guest star in his own book.

[Dread]

I was never too partial to Stingray. Didn't the Avengers already use the Hydrobase at some point, too?

True, but it hasn't been for a while.

I see zero evidence for Limbo yet, so for now until we read the issue or issues it is an interesting theory.

Based on interviews with Pak and VL, I don't think Herc's presence is transient.

Hulk I don't expect to stick around; the Avengers never fit his character, and Loeb's not through raping him up the ass yet.

I would expect Hercules to stick around. They need his muscle. ;)

Besides, you know he is going to give Pym some sort of ribbing for wearing "his wife's clothes". :p

[THANOSRULES]

I wouldnt be surprised to see the New 616 base be the Triskelion.

Anyway I signed up for a subscription to Mighty yesterday based on that preview (and the roster)..it looks like Slott can finally bring this book to new levels.

I can only hope it blows away NA.

[TheCorpulent1]

Icky, I don't want the Triskelion on principle. I'm sure Slott wouldn't inject too much Ultimate-ness into the Avengers even if he did use it, but just knowing it came from the Ultimate universe, I'd be a little put off.

I hope MA outsells NA as well, but it's not likely. Plenty of people only started reading Avengers comics because of Bendis, so to them, returning to the classic Avengers spirit is basically betraying the spirit of the "real" Avengers (i.e. the only one they've known). It's sad but true.
I would expect Hercules to stick around. They need his muscle. ;)

Besides, you know he is going to give Pym some sort of ribbing for wearing "his wife's clothes". :p
Actually, I think Herc would just shake Hank's hand and give him a pat on the back. He grew to respect the Wasp immensely, even though he chafed under her leadership for a while.

[chamber-music]

I'm up for some Pym redemption. The Wasp outfit is growing on me. The Avengers need some new villains though. Big global threat level villains.

[TheCorpulent1]

Plenty of their classic villains are global threats, and Slott said he'd be giving us more classic villains.

[Lucien]

I hope MA outsells NA as well, but it's not likely. Plenty of people only started reading Avengers comics because of Bendis, so to them, returning to the classic Avengers spirit is basically betraying the spirit of the "real" Avengers (i.e. the only one they've known). It's sad but true.
I jumped onboard the Avengers from Dissassembled onward and i'm 100% ready for it to get back to it's original direction. I can't wait for Slott's run.

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, I hope there are lots more like you to prove me wrong. :)

[chamber-music]

Plenty of their classic villains are global threats, and Slott said he'd be giving us more classic villains.
Great I like it when older villains that are forgotten to limbo come back an get an update. I wish more writers would do that.

[RockSP]

I can only hope it blows away NA.

It's a pretty safe bet it will blow away NA story wise, but as for sales...

[CaptainCanada]

It'll be lucky to sell half what NA sells.

[Dread]

Icky, I don't want the Triskelion on principle. I'm sure Slott wouldn't inject too much Ultimate-ness into the Avengers even if he did use it, but just knowing it came from the Ultimate universe, I'd be a little put off.

I hope MA outsells NA as well, but it's not likely. Plenty of people only started reading Avengers comics because of Bendis, so to them, returning to the classic Avengers spirit is basically betraying the spirit of the "real" Avengers (i.e. the only one they've known). It's sad but true.

Actually, I think Herc would just shake Hank's hand and give him a pat on the back. He grew to respect the Wasp immensely, even though he chafed under her leadership for a while.

Yeah, I don't want the team to meet on the Triskelion either. I don't see it happening, though. Considering that half the team would be considered unregistered outlaws (Hercules, Vision, Hulk, Iron Man especially), I doubt they would want a base that is too public.

We're seriously worrying about MIGHTY AVENGERS' sales? It is a top 10 selling book. It averages almost 90k on a bad month. It usually sells about 12k less than NEW AVENGERS though, even when Bendis wrote both. But, the purpose of MIGHTY AVENGERS was always to be a bit more mainstream Avengers than NA was. Even if Bendis usually botched execution, it was a book with a more Avengers centric roster (Iron Man, Wasp, Ms. Marvel, Wonder Man, Black Widow) where they ran into figures like Mole Man, Ultron, and Dr. Doom.

The only difference now is Dan Slott actually LIKES Avengers history instead of trying to apologize for it like Bendis often tries to do in his holier-than-thou style. He's not afraid of those big beats of sun-drenched heroics or over the top villains. Or continuity or character development.

There is a lot of buzz about the new creative team, and it isn't like Slott is a nobody anymore; his issues of ASM usually sell decently. So I would expect some spike in the first issue of the run, at least. Whether it will outsell NEW AVENGERS, which is only the best selling ongoing title in the industry, and has been for about four years, is a totally different ballpark.

But, c'mon. MIGHTY AVENGERS is not a book we should be stressing about sales over. CAPTAIN BRITAIN is.

As for Herc's reaction to "He-Wasp", it will vary. Sometimes Hercules can be sincere and whatnot and other times he can go for a fun, sometimes macho comment. Slott's promised that various characters will react to the idea of Pym taking on Janet's mantle, which is why I've been able to swallow it for now; it's part of a character development arc, not a throwaway gimmick. Pym's grieving for Janet in obviously weird ways; having a robot with her brain patterns pose as Jan for a dinner and even answer for her from beyond the grave is a downright bizarre thing to do for anyone, and Slott knows it. He'll work with it. :)

Although if Slott can make reforming Wanda some sort of priority, that would also be a plus. Although she appears to still be a little bonkers from the preview.

[TheCorpulent1]

I think reforming Wanda is part of the plan. Or at least dealing with her in some way. The part of me acquainted with literary tropes thinks that maybe Wanda's redemption and Hank's reacquaintance with his own life, basically, will mirror each other.

[Dread]

Yeah, that works out. They're both heroes who need some sort of redemption.

The Hulk could use some, too. I just kind of don't see how he could be on the team for long. He's never liked or trusted the Avengers, even during his "Joe Fixit" or "Professor" days. From the preview, it looks like that while Wanda was the catalyst for ending the "old" Avengers (at least for a week until Cap & Iron Man reformed them), she may be the cause for this new bunch to organize, which is full of classic members. The only new ones are Stature and Vision II, who haven't been full on Avengers yet.

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, the Hulk mended fences with Thor, who's one of his longest-running rivals, so maybe the post-WWH Hulk is friendlier and more understanding than his other incarnations. You can never tell with Banner's crazy head.

[Dread]

He did? If that happened in HULK, I missed it completely. I don't read that rag.

The Hulk's more erratic than a 12 year old girl on a sugar binge. Some days he hates everyone and other days he is willing to work with heroes who aren't actively fighting him even while irritated in general. Sometimes he remembers every single insult and slight someone ever gave him, and other times he can shake someone's hand if they help him out. And this is even before getting into outright other personalities such as Fixit or Professor (both of whom I liked more than "stock Hulk").

Thor, I might add, didn't shoot Hulk into space. Granted, Hulk also knows Miek, his so-called friend, manipulated him as well, so maybe he's worked through some of that anger. Or he's just ****ing crazy. Only without the Sentry-style whimpering. :)

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, after that terrible issue where Rulk beats the s*** out of Thor, Thor comes back in the next issue and knocks him around a bit. I don't know how he's suddenly so effective that time, but that's Loeb for you. Anyway, the Hulk steps in and Thor lets him kick Rulk's ass instead, then afterwards the Hulk and Thor shake hands or something. I'm sketchy on the details because I only saw scans when it came out, which was like 3 or 4 months ago.

Anyway, Iron Man could pose a problem for the Hulk sticking around with the Mighty Avengers. But then again, we don't know for sure that Iron Man'll stick around either.

[Dread]

I see. Yeah, I flipped through some paged where Rulk beat Thor and was not impressed. I hope Thor redeems himself in animation in HULK VS. this month. It always perturbed me that Wolverine can magically employ more strategy against Hulk than Thor usually does, and Thor only has about a thousands years more experience at fighting monsters.

Loeb's lost his touch, hence why I am not on HULK.

But, yeah, Hulk's erratic like that. It could be that after WWH he is mellowing out somewhat, as his full on berserker mode didn't turn out so well for him in the end, either. Or he's "Childlike" again or whatever. It's always some new personality with Hulk. He wakes up, spins the WHEEL OF GAMMA to figure out what kind of brute he will be that day, and off he leaps. :p

[TheCorpulent1]

Haha, that's a nice thought about Hulk vs., but you know it ain't gonna happen.

[Franklin Richards]

I got every Lady Liberator issue. And I sort of enjoyed the Faux Trinity story. I love the Wendigo but when used as an infection instead of a curse from eating human flesh in Canada seemed like a cheat. Wendi Hulk was sad.

Other than that I can't say that I didn't have fun with the Liberator stuff.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Dread]

Haha, that's a nice thought about Hulk vs., but you know it ain't gonna happen.

It's possible. I've heard some good reviews about it. Heck, I could have bought it early at a shop, but I want the two disc edition. :o

[TheCorpulent1]

I'll probably just rent it. If there's ever a real Thor movie, I'll buy that. Otherwise, I'm pretty broke.

[MightyAvenge]

Yeah, I see some improvement in the art from the REQUIEM issue. Maybe more time, and a better inker?

I think the narration and dialogue are fine. It feels a lot more like an Avengers story than quite a few I have read from Bendis. He just doesn't understand how to write outright superhero stories; it all has to be urban trench stuff. Slott on the other hand, gets it.

Dude after all the years, I think we all get that you dont like Bendis. It seems like almost all of your posts end up mentioning how much Bendis sucks. Dude I'm with you on that, but let it go, we all know you don't like Bendis. And we all know before you even post it, that if it's not written by Bendis, you'll probably end up comparing it to Bendis anyway, just so you can remind everybody that you don't like Bendis. I understand that you're comparing Bendis and Slott because Slott is taking over Mighty Avengers. But really for how many times you've said Bendis sucks, it goes without saying when you post anything.

[Dread]

Dude after all the years, I think we all get that you dont like Bendis. It seems like almost all of your posts end up mentioning how much Bendis sucks. Dude I'm with you on that, but let it go, we all know you don't like Bendis. And we all know before you even post it, that if it's not written by Bendis, you'll probably end up comparing it to Bendis anyway, just so you can remind everybody that you don't like Bendis. I understand that you're comparing Bendis and Slott because Slott is taking over Mighty Avengers. But really for how many times you've said Bendis sucks, it goes without saying when you post anything.

This time I was comparing Avengers writing.

I probably do harp too much. The thing is, um, "he who shall not be named" is all over the place at Marvel. His stories have influenced the entire line, up and down, for some three years now. He can have one throwaway line about some random character and it is taken as canon FOREVER (such as his claim that Hulk killed people, and always did, in rampages; Greg Pak had to devote an ENTIRE issue with some wonky theory to debunk it). "He" has become a bigger figure at Marvel than John Bryne was in his day with less than half of Bryne's talent in his peak. There, I said it.

It just comes up as reflex. But, considering Dan Slott is taking over for Bendis on this title after almost two years, some mention of him in some discussions is inevitable.

[MightyAvenge]

Yeah, after that terrible issue where Rulk beats the s*** out of Thor, Thor comes back in the next issue and knocks him around a bit. I don't know how he's suddenly so effective that time, but that's Loeb for you. Anyway, the Hulk steps in and Thor lets him kick Rulk's ass instead, then afterwards the Hulk and Thor shake hands or something. I'm sketchy on the details because I only saw scans when it came out, which was like 3 or 4 months ago.

Anyway, Iron Man could pose a problem for the Hulk sticking around with the Mighty Avengers. But then again, we don't know for sure that Iron Man'll stick around either.


Come on Corp, you dont know how, cause you didn't bother to read the issue. That's like watching the end of a movie, not bothering to watch the rest, and just saying "Wow, I dont understand whats going on?" Thor himself says how/why Rulk beat his ass so bad the first time. It was because Thor was so caught off guard about how strong the Rulk actually was, even compared to the Hulk. He was also expecting the Rulk to have more of a personality like Hulk, but that wasn't the case. Yes Loeb does basically whatever he wants, but it's not like Loeb didn't give an explination as to what actually happened. Thor was simply caught off gaurd and underestimated his opponent, simple as that.

[MightyAvenge]

This time I was comparing Avengers writing.

I probably do harp too much. The thing is, um, "he who shall not be named" is all over the place at Marvel. His stories have influenced the entire line, up and down, for some three years now. He can have one throwaway line about some random character and it is taken as canon FOREVER (such as his claim that Hulk killed people, and always did, in rampages; Greg Pak had to devote an ENTIRE issue with some wonky theory to debunk it). "He" has become a bigger figure at Marvel than John Bryne was in his day with less than half of Bryne's talent in his peak. There, I said it.

It just comes up as reflex. But, considering Dan Slott is taking over for Bendis on this title after almost two years, some mention of him in some discussions is inevitable.

Dude Ive seen posts by you, where we'll be talking GoG, Annihilation, Cosmic stuff, etc... but you'll still find a way to bash on Bendis. You'll be like "Man DnA have done an awesome job with Marvel's cosmic line, to bad Bendis cant learn a thing or 2 from them, Bendis is so BLAH BLAH BLAH" Can somebody please fix the broken record. It's like being in Highschool, you dont like somebody, but for some reason you cant help but talk about that person. If you don't like them, why are you always talking about the person. Are you just really pissed he went from good writer to ****** writer? Cause that can happen to the best of them, Slott is the **** right now, but will he eventually become stale? Claremont was great for the X-Men, but he has become stale, Grant Morrison was great now he's not that good.

[TheCorpulent1]

Come on Corp, you dont know how, cause you didn't bother to read the issue. That's like watching the end of a movie, not bothering to watch the rest, and just saying "Wow, I dont understand whats going on?" Thor himself says how/why Rulk beat his ass so bad the first time. It was because Thor was so caught off guard about how strong the Rulk actually was, even compared to the Hulk. He was also expecting the Rulk to have more of a personality like Hulk, but that wasn't the case. Yes Loeb does basically whatever he wants, but it's not like Loeb didn't give an explination as to what actually happened. Thor was simply caught off gaurd and underestimated his opponent, simple as that.
Being caught off guard somehow stopped him from making Rulk even flinch with his blows? That's kind of a shoddy explanation.

[MightyAvenge]

Yea pretty much, Thor probably didn't hit him as hard as he would've if he would've known how strong Rulk was actually gonna be. So YES being caught off gaurd was exactly why Rulk didn't even flinch when Thor first nailed him. Read the 2 issues where they fight, instead of just assuming things. I'm not gonna look at a couple random pages of Final Crisis and just start assuming things. Thats what your doing Corp.

IMO, you dont really have a right to ***** about a book if you dont actually read it. Cause maybe if you read the book you wouldn't have as many questions and "what the f..k" moments. Seriously it's like not studying for a test, getting a bad grade, and then asking yourself "Why did I get such a bad grade?" HMMM, maybe it's cause you just assumed you already knew everything, and you didn't feel like you needed to read the book.

[Dread]

Dude Ive seen posts by you, where we'll be talking GoG, Annihilation, Cosmic stuff, etc... but you'll still find a way to bash on Bendis. You'll be like "Man DnA have done an awesome job with Marvel's cosmic line, to bad Bendis cant learn a thing or 2 from them, Bendis is so BLAH BLAH BLAH" Can somebody please fix the broken record. It's like being in Highschool, you dont like somebody, but for some reason you cant help but talk about that person. If you don't like them, why are you always talking about the person. Are you just really pissed he went from good writer to ****** writer? Cause that can happen to the best of them, Slott is the **** right now, but will he eventually become stale? Claremont was great for the X-Men, but he has become stale, Grant Morrison was great now he's not that good.

Kind of like you can't stand my complaining, but can't stop complaining about it and bringing it up. :o

I also will note that even Bendis' best work, which is probably DAREDEVIL, is nowhere near the pinnacle of Claremont's or Morrison's best work was. They also took longer than 5 years to completely run out of new ideas, and usually knew how to end a story better. Or end it at all.

I admit I probably do bring up Bendis too often in posts. But you griping about it only going to lead to more of the same.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yea pretty much, Thor probably didn't hit him as hard as he would've if he would've known how strong Rulk was actually gonna be. So YES being caught off gaurd was exactly why Rulk didn't even flinch when Thor first nailed him. Read the 2 issues where they fight, instead of just assuming things. I'm not gonna look at a couple random pages of Final Crisis and just start assuming things. Thats what your doing Corp.

IMO, you dont really have a right to ***** about a book if you dont actually read it. Cause maybe if you read the book you wouldn't have as many questions and "what the f..k" moments. Seriously it's like not studying for a test, getting a bad grade, and then asking yourself "Why did I get such a bad grade?" HMMM, maybe it's cause you just assumed you already knew everything, and you didn't feel like you needed to read the book.
Fair enough. It was just an offhand comment anyway. Let's move on.

[MightyAvenge]

Yea thats all I do is complain about you :), your comparing apples and oranges my friend. You are on here everday, and everyday you will without a doubt complain about Bendis. Me on the other hand, I'm not on here everyday, and when I do come on, I'm not relating every one of my comments to how much you complain about bendis. You seriously can relate almost anything you want to Bendis sucking. Every week when you write your reviews, most people including me, who value your reviews, we have read to line after line, sentence after sentence about how much Bendis sucks, or Joe Q, and now Loeb. We get it, you have great reviews and great opinions, but your beating a dead horse is all i'm saying. The more you ***** isnt gonna do anything to Bendis, it's not like your gonna get him fired. I wanna read you great reviews, I wanna read your good ideas, I think most people around here want exactly the same, but I think most people would agree, that you should stop beating that dead horse and just move on.

[TheCorpulent1]

You do see the futility of trying to dictate what another person talks about, right? Just drop it and either accept that Dread's gonna badmouth Bendis or ignore Dread's posts if they annoy you so much.

[MightyAvenge]

I'm done I've already made my point very clear, I'm not being mean about it, I'm not being rude. I've said what I want to say to Dread, and I'm done. :)

Also I'm not trying to dictate what abybody does, I'm just putting a suggestion out there.

[Dread]

For the record, I never said he was outright wrong. I do bring up, um, "he who shall not be named" too often. I was just stating that for some topics, especially this one, it is inevitable. I will try to curb the vendetta for other topics, like space books. Just, well, if they mention SECRET INVASION, it does sort of become an elephant in the room.

And, well, complaining about complaining can be the worst complaining of all. :cool:

[TheCorpulent1]

But what about complaining about complaining about complaining?

[Lucien]

You've reviewed Harry Potter aswell?

[MightyAvenge]

For the record, I never said he was outright wrong. I do bring up, um, "he who shall not be named" too often. I was just stating that for some topics, especially this one, it is inevitable. I will try to curb the vendetta for other topics, like space books. Just, well, if they mention SECRET INVASION, it does sort of become an elephant in the room.

And, well, complaining about complaining can be the worst complaining of all. :cool:

Your a good guy Dread, sorry for complaining about your complaining, but sometimes it has to be done.

[Spider-ManHero12]

Anybody here see the awesome preview of Mighty Avengers #21? If not, here you go! :up::up::up:
http://www.marvel.com/news/comicstories.6596

[Kevin]

I'm excited about Wanda. However, I still think this is some sort of blanket.

[Dread]

Anybody here see the awesome preview of Mighty Avengers #21? If not, here you go! :up::up::up:
http://www.marvel.com/news/comicstories.6596

That one has a spread of pages 7-8, which is cool.

I do get a sense of big things happening here. I am excited for this issue. :up:

[Mr. Green]

That's right, Dread. Give into your Slott-love.

[Dread]

I often do like Slott's work more often than not. However, I am not slavishly devoted; I have noted some of the flaws of his AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE run over various reviews or bits I didn't like. With this I hope he isn't trying to be as "dark", though.

[Mr. Green]

He's probably intentionally going in the opposite direction to kind of balance things out. That's my guess anyway.

[Dread]

Frankly the Avengers have seen a lot of darkness. Not to say I want the book to be a comedy, but it may be down to tone back some of the bleakness. What better way to mend old wounds than pummeling some bad guys together again? :p

[THANOSRULES]

WTF is with that NYC flood?

That better be some dream sequence or somthing or else it is turning to the worst parts of the Ultimates.

[Anubis]

The NYC gets flooded every two years in the MU. Whenever Namor gets his panties in a twist or some mystical douche bag wants take over the world or some such bull poop. That's why most New Yorkers carry an umbrella wherever they go. :o

[The_Vision]

Anybody here see the awesome preview of Mighty Avengers #21? If not, here you go! :up::up::up:
http://www.marvel.com/news/comicstories.6596

What's with Vision being called Jonas? :huh: Other than that great preview!

[Dread]

What's with Vision being called Jonas? :huh: Other than that great preview!

He claimed he wanted her to call him that when he proclaimed his love for Stature in YOUNG AVENGERS PRESENTS #4.

[Mr. Green]

As good as this looks I'm still way more excited about Dark Avengers. With Deodato on pencils it's basically a continuation of T-bolts. Ellis' run and I have high hopes for Bendis and DA.

DA has the advantage of art team and maybe even characters. I know Slott's going to bring his A-game though so who knows.

[CaptainCanada]

I can't see Bendis capturing the tone of Ellis' Thunderbolts effectively, though, to be fair, Ellis is an aggressively unique writer.