The Official Mighty Avengers Thread

[RockSP]

It shouldn't be hard for Cho to get cassie,unlike Vision he has a penis.

Since Vision's body is just Kang's shapeshifting armor...problem solved.

Sue Richards and Cassie should have absolutely nothing to complain about.

[Eros]

Since Vision's body is just Kang's shapeshifting armor...problem solved.

Sue Richards and Cassie should have absolutely nothing to complain about.

you don't see my Point, hes a flipping robot, the idea of a living person competeing against a freaking robot for the effection of a teenage girl is stupid.

[RockSP]

You obviously didn't see my point...which was a joke.

[Eros]

You obviously didn't see my point...which was a joke.

we didn't see each others points.

[Anubis]

That's because you don't understand that, but for a charming personality, the machine always beats out the human. All men are dogs, but all androids are the perfect mate....or your money back.

[bryanss3]

A robot and a human competing for a teenage girl's affection is stupid? damn there goes my comic idea.

There is honestly nothing stupid about that concept it either works depending on how it's written or it falls flat and we all rip on it. thats basically how all comics work.

[Anubis]

Which would have been a rip off of the original Vision, Wonderman, and Scarlett Witch thing anyway.

[bryanss3]

it's only a rip off its bad. if it's written well everyone will praise it.

[TheCorpulent1]

It'll still be a rip-off, though. But the Vision/Simon/Wanda triangle was hardly the first love triangle ever, either.

[Anubis]

But easily the first involving an android with the other dudes personality involved....I think. Maybe Jules Verne thought of it first.

[TheCorpulent1]

Jules Verne and H. P. Lovecraft thought of everything weird in the universe before anyone else.

[Anubis]

Pretty much.

[TheCorpulent1]

Seriously, "Cthulhu"? Where does that s*** come from?

[Anubis]

The mind of a seriously deranged man with a creepy ass name....and probably some old dark myths or something.

[Max J Power]

You know, I watch that show all the time, and I never bothered learning that guy's name, or the name of his albino... friend?
Master Billy Quizboy.

[Dread]

A love triangle between those three characters could be cool. I could see Cho trying to find some kind of "off switch" on Vision Jr. so he can have Cassie to himself. :)

Vision Jr. and Victor Mancha sort of had that effect on each other during the first RUNAWAYS/YOUNG AVENGERS team up mini's.

That would be cool. What would be EVEN cooler would be if Slott dusted off Kristoff Vernard for a return. C'mon, he's Dr. Doom's adopted teenage son. How the hell he has been forgotten for so long by everyone but Tom Defalco I'll never know. Seriously, he was Cassie's first metal-plated crush. What IS with her and the armor fetish, anyway? :shock

[Manic]

I never thought about it before (because I've never read a Runaways/Young Avengers crossover), but Vision and Victor are pretty much brothers, aren't they?

[Dread]

I believe that was commented on in either the first or second RUNAWAYS/YOUNG AVENGERS team up, that both can trace their origins to Ultron. By the end of their first alliance, when the two teams had to unite to rescue several of their members after Noh-Varr/Marvel Boy had kidnapped them for his former masters at The Cube (Hulkling, Wiccan, and Carolina I believe) they mentioned being "brothers" at least once. It's been about three years since I read that.

Ultron's had no bloody luck with robotic sires. Vision, Jocasta, Victor Mancha, they've all turned on him. Even that "Mark Twelve" unit that wanted to be Pym's "son".

Your blog also looks cool. :up:

[Manic]

Part of me wants to read those crossover minis, but another part of me refuses to buy an event tie-in.

And thanks.

[Dread]

Both of the RUNAWAYS/YOUNG AVENGERS mini's, for CIVIL WAR and SECRET INVASION respectively, were good reads. Zeb Wells wrote the first, with Caselli on art, and Chris Yost did the second, with RUNAWAYS fill in artist Miyazawa on art. I enjoyed both. Not high art, but fun character lines and moments, and lots of action.

[TheCorpulent1]

I never thought about it before (because I've never read a Runaways/Young Avengers crossover), but Vision and Victor are pretty much brothers, aren't they?
Victor is technically Vision Jr.'s uncle. If Ultron created Vic and the original Vision as "sons," and Vision Jr. is like the son of the original Vision because he takes some things from the Vision but is a different person, Vision Jr. would be Vic's nephew and Vic would be Vision Jr.'s uncle.

[Ion Kenshin]

Victor is technically Vision Jr.'s uncle. If Ultron created Vic and the original Vision as "sons," and Vision Jr. is like the son of the original Vision because he takes some things from the Vision but is a different person, Vision Jr. would be Vic's nephew and Vic would be Vision Jr.'s uncle.
Is it sad that this makes complete sense to me?

[random_havoc]

Jules Verne and H. P. Lovecraft thought of everything weird in the universe before anyone else.

Add Edgar Allan Poe into that list and I agree.

[moraldeficiency]

Homer had them all beat.

[iloveclones]

^ Doh!

[roach]

Gronk from Cave Clan Badger was first...his cave drawings were poetry in motion

[moraldeficiency]

Gronk from Cave Clan Badger was first...his cave drawings were poetry in motion

Did you not read final crisis? That was really batman from the future making all cave drawings post Homer.

[TheCorpulent1]

Homer was Superman caught in a time loop. Just wait until next year's Final Crisis 2: More Finaler than Final.

[moraldeficiency]

Morrison is running out of people to kill.

[bryanss3]

I can't wait. well get to see batman 2 guns this time:whatever:

[Manic]

In Infinite Crisis, Wonder Woman snapped Max Lord's neck.

In Final Crisis, Batman shot Darkseid with a gun.

I'm calling it right now. During the next Crisis, Superman is going to butt rape Brainiac. To death.

[TheCorpulent1]

Not Brainiac; Bizarro. Anything less would not be shocking enough.

[moraldeficiency]

Throw in Aquaman dying for shock value and we've got ourselves a crisis.

[TheCorpulent1]

He already died for no apparent reason (with the writer's intention to bring him back, at least) in his own comic. He's coming back as a zombie for Blackest Night. Yay. :dry:

[moraldeficiency]

Oh, missed that, then hawkman.

[Manic]

He came back for exactly one panel during Final Crisis before everyone at DC said "No, he's dead again. Need to save that resurrection for next time."

[TheCorpulent1]

Hawkman: Rebirth, wherein he's reborn. Again. Because that's what happens to Hawkman every time.

[roach]

Hawkman is worst than Jean Grey

[Manic]

Despite popular belief, Jean has only come back from the dead once. She turned into Phoenix, turned into Dark Phoenix, died, came back, and died again. We're still waiting for her to come back. I think Raven has come back more times than Jean. Hell, Jean's clone Maddie has come back more times than she has.

[Brainiac 8]

Hawkman is worst than Jean Grey

Yes he is.

No Bizarro buttraping please...don't give them ideas. :(

They'll probably have Bizarro rape Lois first though. :o

[Manic]

"No means yes."

[Brainiac 8]

"No means yes."


:dry: :nono:

[TheCorpulent1]

"No means yes."
"Look, Superman! Bizarro am being perfect gentleman!"

:csad:

[Dread]

Victor is technically Vision Jr.'s uncle. If Ultron created Vic and the original Vision as "sons," and Vision Jr. is like the son of the original Vision because he takes some things from the Vision but is a different person, Vision Jr. would be Vic's nephew and Vic would be Vision Jr.'s uncle.

Huh. Hadn't thought it out that far. Zeb Wells went with the "brother" thing in his RUNAWAYS/YOUNG AVENGERS mini for CIVIL WAR, though. I was just repeating from that.

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, Zeb Wells was wrong! :cmad:

Nah, technically, I could see them as brothers, too. I mean, Vision Jr. isn't really a "son" in any meaningful sense to the Vision. He possesses his memories, so an argument that they effectively grew up together could be made, which would make him something of a brother to both the Vision and Vic. I still wonder if giving Victor a V name was intentional on Vaughan's part, to imply a relationship between the two in the first place.

[Dread]

Perhaps. I just think family trees get more complicated with robots.

And clones, and alternate dimensional clones...

[Manic]

I thought naming him Victor was a red herring on Vaughan's part, since it was first implied that he might be Doctor Doom's son.

[Dread]

That, too. He even trucked out the Doombot to keep it going an extra issue (before we learned that Ultron had just appropriated and took over a Doombot).

Still, it was clever.

[Anubis]

God I miss good Runaways.

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, it ain't coming back, sucka!

:csad:

[Dread]

It's still here, just not the same. :(

[Max J Power]

They'll probably have Bizarro rape Lois first though. :o
And then talk in future issues about how much he loves to rape.

[Brainiac 8]

There are times I wish the whole Superman family could be moved to another company. I always fear how DC will handle my favorite superhero. :(

[Red Mask]

And then talk in future issues about how much he loves to rape.

How does breaking someone's neck jump to shooting a gun, and finally to rape?

[TheCorpulent1]

Things escalate rather quickly on the interwebs.

[Brainiac 8]

How does breaking someones neck jump to shooting a gun, and finally to rape?

Two words: Dr. Light. :whatever:

[Red Mask]

Two words: Dr. Light. :whatever:

DC is really f'd up the bunghole. :csad: I wouldn't be surprised if they did publish a story where Dr. Light did rape some of the Teen Titans.

[Anubis]

Why not? That's what the people in the business call..... "Edgey"

[bryanss3]

yeah rape should basically stay out of comics. unless it completely makes sense for the character(rapist) or they make Law & Order: SVU into a comic.

[Anubis]

Never had a problem with Dr. Light Rapist.

[Manic]

Dr. Light being turned into a rapist is one thing. Having him talk about rape repeatedly in a single conversation (http://livingbetweenwednesdays.blogspot.com/2006/11/can-we-talk-about-something-else.html) is another.

[Anubis]

Well, that's Winnick for you. The living embodiment of going too far.

[hippie_hunter]

I'm glad that Dr. Rape is dead :o

[Upset Spideyfan]

That is literally one of the greatest comics ever.

[Brainiac 8]

Dr. Light being turned into a rapist is one thing. Having him talk about rape repeatedly in a single conversation (http://livingbetweenwednesdays.blogspot.com/2006/11/can-we-talk-about-something-else.html) is another.

Yes, that exchange was just ludicrous. "Dr. Light is so cool, he talks about rape!"

There are times I hate DC. :cmad:

I'm glad that Dr. Rape is dead :o


Me too. Remember the good old days when Dr. Light couldn't even beat the Teen Titans because he would practically trip over his own cape constantly...it must have been from all the rape. :whatever:

[Vartha]

Just picked up TMA 21-24, I'm into 22 and loving it. Quick Silver/Chthon reminds me of Shazam for some reason.

[TheCorpulent1]

Probably the big ol' lightning bolt on his chest.

[Vartha]

that and being Red helps alittle.

[TheCorpulent1]

In case anyone cares, Captain Britain and MI-13 #13 featured a Mighty Avengers cameo.

[Anubis]

Was it a cool cameo or a s**ty cameo? Did it involve cod pieces for no reason?

[TheCorpulent1]

Britain gets attacked by Dracula, Captain Fate, and Lilith's full vampire army and the "Scarlet Witch" appears to Wisdom, telling him that "the real Avengers" (:D) are coming to help. But it turns out Lilith's erected a magical barrier around the UK, preventing Pym and the gang from getting in.

[Anubis]

Pfft, it even stops Pym Portals? The hell you say.

[TheCorpulent1]

Magic trumps science. :oldrazz:

[Anubis]

Maaaaaaann f**k magic. :o

[moraldeficiency]

And the "scarlett witch" couldn't get around that?

[Anubis]

Well, it's not over yet. Maybe he/she/she can.

[chamber-music]

Perhaps. I just think family trees get more complicated with robots.

And clones, and alternate dimensional clones...
Only a matter of time until they are related to the Summers family just like everyone else
And the "scarlett witch" couldn't get around that?

Well she could if she wanted to but she doesn't

[TheCorpulent1]

And the "scarlett witch" couldn't get around that?
Clearly, "she" could since she got herself in to talk to Wisdom. But "she's" also not really interested in stopping vampire invasions, remember? ;)

Besides, Lilith was using her own magic plus some kind of machines Dracula provided, so presumably it was a really potent spell.

[moraldeficiency]

Clearly, "she" could since she got herself in to talk to Wisdom. But "she's" also not really interested in stopping vampire invasions, remember? ;)

Besides, Lilith was using her own magic plus some kind of machines Dracula provided, so presumably it was a really potent spell.

I don't remember as I've not yet been able to bring myself to buy Captian Britian.

And I'm sure the spell is potent, though loki is the master of the magical loophole.

[CaptainCanada]

My one quibble with that issue was that Dracula predicts correctly that Fake-Wanda isn't going to pierce the barrier, but he doesn't know Wanda is Loki, so I have no idea how he could guess that.

[TheCorpulent1]

Maybe he expected real-Wanda to not be able to pierce the barrier too. I don't see any issue there. :huh:

[CaptainCanada]

No, he quite clearly states that she can, just that she won't:

"As I predicted, the Scarlet Witch is not willing to pierce the barrier. The reasons for which elude me. Still, it is satisfactory."

If he doesn't know about Loki, there's literally no grounds on which he could have made such a deduction.

[TheCorpulent1]

Maybe he had a vision of the future. Aren't prophetic visions part of especially powerful vampires' powers?

[Dread]

Dracula supposedly cut a deal with Dr. Doom. If Doom is actually taking it seriously, perhaps Loki/Wanda wasn't willing to go over Doom's helmet a bit to muck things up for Dracula, since he/she needs Doom for her plans with Asgard. She still had to go through the motions of trying with the Mighty Avengers, since they are supposed to be more of an international hero corps and Dracula trying to take over Britain with a vampire army would be a pretty damn big "crisis" for "Wanda" to have ignored. After all, if she could alert the team to a measly AIM attack in Tokyo, missing Dracula invading Britain would raise major red flags.

The only other option is that Dracula & Lilith's spell was potent enough to bar Loki unless he/she really "unleashed" himself, which Dracula predicted he wouldn't be willing to do at this time. Saving Britain apparently isn't worth "Wanda" dropping her cover. Granted, Loki may have major magic mojo, but Dr. Strange he usually wasn't.

It wasn't a big deal to me. I appreciated Cornell at least having the Mighty Avengers try to help.

[CaptainCanada]

No, no, it's blatantly obvious why Loki doesn't want to intervene. Dracula cut a deal with the Cabal, which includes Loki.

What's difficult to understand is why Dracula can guess that Wanda won't.

[Manic]

Maybe Dr. Doom told him Wanda wouldn't pierce the barrier, and left it at that.

[chamber-music]

Dracula cares not for things such as plot holes

[stingerman]

Up at CosmicBookNews:

http://www.cosmicbooknews.com/previews/MIGHTAVN025preview

[Spider-ManHero12]

Wow, that was awesome! Can't wait. :up:

[Upset Spideyfan]

Ban this miscreant! :cmad:

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=267693

[StreetWarrior]

There is absolutely no way that Pham drew that. It's far too good and not in technicolor.

[Dread]

You're right. It was drawn by Stephen Segovia with inks by Noah Salonga with colors by Jean-Francois Beaulieu. :o

I'll all for merging if the mod wants to.

Looks pretty good and busy as usual for Slott's Avengers stories. Art is great. And yeah, the book technically skipped May. It happens.

[TheCorpulent1]

Wow, Pym sucked all kinds of ass in that preview. Is this the part where Slott falls into the same trap as all the other writers of the last few years and focuses way too much on Pym's mental problems (which were mostly dealt with by the end of Busiek's run)? I hope not. :csad:

[Eros]

Wow, Pym sucked all kinds of ass in that preview. Is this the part where Slott falls into the same trap as all the other writers of the last few years and focuses way too much on Pym's mental problems (which were mostly dealt with by the end of Busiek's run)? I hope not. :csad:

Pym like many other characters is only as interesting as his faults.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, but his faults didn't include flying into near-psychotic rages at women for years until Johns and Bendis decided to crazy him back up for no apparent reason. :o Slott seemed to be getting him back to the more stable personality Hank had for a long time prior to that.

[Anubis]

Well, when you take into consideration that he was kidnapped by Skrulls, only to come back and find out the love of his life is dead, a Skrull had been impersonating him and managed to become more of a success than he ever was, then to be humiliated by douche bag Tony Stark, and to top it all off, HAMMER nearly finds his lab and all the work he was doing to honor the memory of his dead friend (Killed in a round about way by his dead Skrull impersonator) is gone down the tubes. I kinda think his reaction is well within character, not only that, but I think even Steve F**king Rogers himself might have thrown a hissy fit if he were faced with the same situation.

On a side note, I am glad SLott has embraced the Val being smart thing. That's, that's just awesome.

[TheCorpulent1]

Meh. I just hate seeing Hank like that. It worries me because people seem to think the only way he's actually a good character is if he's a raging misgoynist.

[Anubis]

She's a robot, she can take it. :o

[Eros]

Meh. I just hate seeing Hank like that. It worries me because people seem to think the only way he's actually a good character is if he's a raging misgoynist.

Its his most interesting character trait.

[TheCorpulent1]

Not to me.

[Eros]

Not to me.

Thats becuase you have allowed love to cloud your better judgement and rational thought.

[chamber-music]

She's a robot, she can take it. :o
So we’ll hunt her, because she can take it. Because she’s not our hero. she’s a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A Robot.

[TheCorpulent1]

Heh, that made me snicker.

[Dread]

What I find bemusing in debates over Pym's misogyny and whatnot is that hardly anyone seems to recall that Mr. Fantastic was practically the poster child for such stuff for a damn long time. Breeze through much of the Lee/Kirby stuff and it seemed as if Reed was saying passive aggressive stuff to Sue all the bloody time (versions of "Be silent, woman!" come to mind). This continued for a bit in the 70's. Let us also not forget that Reed once blasted his infant son with a coma-inducing gun that even Cable wouldn't use.

The problem with Hank Pym is that without the hints or past of misogyny, he's a run of the mill generic scientist whose gimmick is size altering technology. While that can be fun unto itself, Marvel characters are usually only as good as their faults so writers usually try to juggle them. The challenge, though, is to play with a character's faults without overrelying on them to the point where they seem to be nothing BUT faults, such as Sentry, or WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN's Cyclops.

Dan Slott's said in interviews that part of what he's trying to do with Jocasta is show that Pym is a little screwed up still. She's a robot programmed to basically act like his ex-wife, who is now dead. Therefore Pym and her are going to have a bit of a screwed up relationship where they do things that for normal people would seem very bizarre. Such as using Jocasta to answer unfinished questions with Janet. On the downside, Jocasta is someone that Pym can literally reprogram as he pleases if he wants, so it will be a bit dysfunctional. It wasn't as if Dan named Pym "The Wasp" and has told us that it is the best thing ever; he's had quite a few characters rightly mock Pym for it or at best hint that it may not be the best way to mourn.

Much as I wouldn't want Pym only being defined by his faults, he shouldn't only be defined by his strengths, either, if you want him to be a "real character". Real people get frustrated, they lose their temper sometimes, even on people they love. Once upon a time, Wolverine was allowed to have flaws and they made him a very interesting character; half of why he is boring in stuff like WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN or X-MEN ORIGINS: WOLVERINE is many of those faults are stripped from him to make him a more mainstream uber hero, and it doesn't quite work. In HULK VS. WOLVERINE, Logan was a complete jerk with streaks of overconfidence, it backfired on him often, and he was awesome despite and because of that.

It would be akin to writing U.S. Agent, but not having him act aggressive, abrasive, or overconfident. Without that, he's rather flat.

I mean, look at the preview; Pym loses his temper a bit and yells at Jocasta, and what happens? Is it ignored? No, Hercules is there to basically say, "Look, pal, that doesn't help, you need to fix it." Although it is something when Hercules is trying to calm someone down, of all people. Guess kids change you.

It's not as if Slott is making Pym incompetent; he got to one up Iron Man for those three issues everyone but me hated. He's probably trying to cover all the bases for Pym's character. Not having him lose his temper at all would seem a bit flat, personally.

[RockSP]

Yeah, but his faults didn't include flying into near-psychotic rages at women for years until Johns and Bendis decided to crazy him back up for no apparent reason. :o

I don't recall Johns having him go crazy.

[TheCorpulent1]

He had Hank put on the Yellowjacket suit again, knowing what it meant to Jan, so that he could "work through" his issues or something. Clearly that didn't work out. I guess it's debatable, but I saw that as the first step toward Hank's overblown mental issues era we currently find ourselves in.

[Eros]

He had Hank put on the Yellowjacket suit again, knowing what it meant to Jan, so that he could "work through" his issues or something. Clearly that didn't work out. I guess it's debatable, but I saw that as the first step toward Hank's overblown mental issues era we currently find ourselves in.


Have you see or read the old 70s early 80s avengers comic, Pym was a freaking nut job for a long period of time. If anything they have toned down his insanity, hes not trying to commit sucide, or faking supervillian attacks etc.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yep, I'm well aware of that. Are you aware of the 20-odd years of comics after that where Hank pretty much recovered from all that stuff?

[Eros]

Yep, I'm well aware of that. Are you aware of the 20-odd years of comics after that where Hank pretty much recovered from all that stuff?

But being replaced by a skrull[who was a better hero], and you wife dieing, would drive any hero crazy, especially Hank Pym.

[TheCorpulent1]

Meh. I still don't like it. But I will concede that it was probably supposed to make us uncomfortable and Slott probably knows not to take it too far, so whatever.

[Dread]

Some people thought that the "recovery" was executed in sometimes too sweeping a move. One website claimed that Kurt Busiek all but blamed Janet for her own physical abuse in one story. To be fair, past stories tried to blame Pym's emotional instability on the source of his powers, but that has usually been ignored since.

I think it is a fair point that being a captive of the Skrulls for at least a year in Marvel time as his impostor got undue praise and access in his name, coupled with losing Janet and thus ANY chance to reconcile with her would cause a lot of issues to come back up. It isn't uncommon to refresh old wounds or topics when someone you love dies.

Part of what seems vexing when you read comics from various eras is that naturally the 21st century style of writing focuses more on feelings and traumas and embellishing them, while old style stories often had that as details in between fight scenes. In the old days, you could be forever forgiven for slapping your wife and trying to kill your team by apprehending the Masters of Evil in one adventure by yourself. Nowadays, it would be harder to sell such a story.

Personally, what puts me off to some "uber genius" types in comics is how sterile they are. They never lose their temper, they seem to poo-poo the emotional foibles of others, as if above them. I kind of liked Pym because he wasn't like that. Such foibles still happened to him. He still had them, and sometimes suffered because of them, like a real person. Not akin to Reed of the last 15 years, above such mortal desires like envy or whatever. Even Bill Gaites I am sure is at times selfish or petty, or frustrated.

[TheCorpulent1]

I appreciate all of that, especially the mental stress of Jan's death. But you can still have foibles without randomly yelling at women. It's the misogyny angle I have more of a problem with than the crazy angle. If he'd yelled at Jarvis or something, sure, he just lost his temper. But yelling at the feminine robot who's carrying his dead wife's brain engrams? Skirts a little too close to raising his hand to his wife again for my liking.

[Dread]

It could be argued that it is misogyny to believe you can simply "get over" hitting your wife, just shove it in a closet, pretend to friends and family that it never happened, and so on. That by pummeling enough super-villains and behaving enough at formal events, such an act could be forgotten by various effected parties. Every time a female celebrity sticks with a man who abused her for whatever reason, it's usually seen as the height of dysfunction.

For example, Tigra brought up the fact that the act still made an impression on her in some comic, I think AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE, and to me it worked because when that was going on, she was a then new Avengers member. It would have been a very nasty first impression, and those are hard to get over. Personally I think men are more likely to believe one can wash their hands of such incidents than women. Think about Christian Bale's infamous "explosion" on the set of T4. The notion of a man losing his temper and literally threatening to pummel a co-worker for making an error is considered so mundane that we mock it. If a woman does that, well, she's a PMS B*****, and is usually dismissed as a psychopath afterward.

While I do agree with you that Bendis went overboard with things, albeit with a Skrull Pym, I also think that it is something to deal with. Slott claimed in a podcast interview that was posted here that he literally argued at a "Creator Summit" to allow "the slap" to happen; editorial toyed with the idea of claiming Pym had been a Skrull so long, that the slap was negated because that was Skrullowjacket. Slott wanted that in there. He's obviously going somewhere with it, and I probably trust him to handle it better than I would too many other recent Avengers or Ultimates writers.

[Anubis]

Yeah, Corpy, I think you need to chill. The guy is screwed up. There's no point in trying to deny it. May as well embrace it. I think Slott can make a hell of a story out of it. A story that doesn't simply make him look like....well....Ultimate Hank.

[Harlekin]

I have to agree, for once. This outburst isn't that odd. Just hope Slott doesn't do it too often.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, I'll concede the point. I hadn't thought of the strain Hank's probably under since coming back and finding his whole world a shambles, and that sort of stress does tend to bring old mental illness back to the surface in real life. I'll consider it a step backward after Slott brought Hank two steps forward and hope that the trend continues to be more forward than backward in the future.

[chamber-music]

Well said Dread. I like the fact that Hank Pym is flawed. flawed characters are always more intresting then those uber-goody types although like Corp I don't want that to be all there is to Pym.

The less Hank is like ultimate Pym the better. Same went for Cap America (Steve) when he was around.

I would like Pym like McNultty from The Wire in the way that his amazing at what he does but his also a total screw up with a trainwreck for a personal life.

I liked the crazy short tempered Wolverine who you never knew if he was gonna stab someone or ask them for a light for his cigar. Also old school Reed Richards was a hardcore sexist but that got totally swept under the carpet and replaced by him just being inconsiderate towards sue.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, I could get behind a McNulty-esque Pym.

[random_havoc]

i just read my advanced copy of the next ish.

I thought it was great. I predict that you're all going to find the interaction between Pym and Reed Richards very entertaining :)

[Harlekin]

At first I kind of balked at a Pym/McNulty comparison, but then the fifth season of The Wire entered my mind.

[TheBlueRogue]

For those who don't see the wire could you explain who McNulty is?

[Anubis]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_McNulty

[Eros]

The art in this book is still subpar, atleast give the book an artist with some talent. New Avengers always has great art, but Mighty is just lagging in that department.

[TheCorpulent1]

New Avengers' "great art" is debatable. I can't stand Billy Tan's work.
For those who don't see the wire could you explain who McNulty is?
McNulty is a detective who's great at his job but lousy at life. He has a passion for justice that sometimes leads him to work outside the letter of the law and often puts him at odds with his bosses, since they tend to be bound by politics or personal corruption or just plain indifference and consequently get in the way of his investigations when they start revealing some unscrupulous practices by important political or community leaders. That naturally leads to a lot of frustration, which wreaks havoc in McNulty's personal life because he's terrible at dealing with said frustration. You'd have to watch The Wire to really get why the comparison is apt, but basically McNulty and Pym are both good at their jobs but unable to deal with certain character flaws that then snowball into full-on horror shows--relatively minor law-breaking that spirals totally out of control in McNulty's case and the low self-esteem that spirals into mental illness and wifebeating in Pym's case.

[Manic]

The art in this book is still subpar, atleast give the book an artist with some talent. New Avengers always has great art, but Mighty is just lagging in that department.
But... I loved Rafa Sandoval.

[moraldeficiency]

http://www.marvel.com/news/comicstories.8243.Tuesday_Q%26A~colon~_Dan_Slott

Marvel.com: In your other book MIGHTY AVENGERS, we have Hank Pym basically going, "You know what? No. We're the Avengers and that's that." So, how is this going to backfire on Hank because everything backfires on Hank?

Dan Slott: [Laughs] I think Hank Pym is going to surprise you. Despite all the weirdness and bizarreness in his life, I think Hank is really going to step up and be the kind of hero the world needs. I see him as the light in Dark Reign. He's going to be the A-list guy we all know he could be. He's going to take a really weird, roundabout way to get there though, with kissing robots.

Marvel.com: To be fair, Jocasta is based on his wife.

Dan Slott: His dead, ex-wife's brain and built by his robot son. It's like some robotic Greek tragedy. It's just going to get more and more bizarre as we get into it. Once we got over the opening arc and people saw the big surprise with Loki as the Scarlet Witch, every issue after that, something big, something cool, something weird is going to be going on in MIGHTY AVENGERS.

Marvel.com: You mentioned the Loki twist, which is interesting because Quicksilver joined the team to find his sister. Now he won't. How's that going to work out for him and the team?


MIGHTY AVENGERS
#26 cover by
Marko Djudrdjevic

Dan Slott: I'm seeing a lot of not well for poor Quicksilver. Wait till you see what happens at the end of our next big arc. Quicksilver has gone down some really dark roads and dark paths for the past few years: being the instigator behind House of M and therefore causing mutants to lose their powers, he's stolen the Terrigen crystals from the Inhumans causing Silent War—there's all these horrible things that have happened because of his actions and as we've seen in MIGHTY AVENGERS #24, he is now conveniently blaming all that on a Skrull that never was. Hank and Jarvis are being nice enough to go with it and back him up, but all us readers know that it's the same wonderful goof-up Pietro Maximoff; ruining everything he touches.

Marvel.com: We have three Avengers team now: Mighty, Dark and New. What makes the Mighty Avengers differ from the other two?

Dan Slott: Well, with Dark Avengers, even though they are the public face of the Avengers, we all know they are evil, scummy bad guys. With New Avengers, they're like modern day Robin Hoods; they're people working underground and fighting the system. But all this is happening inside America. What the Mighty Avengers are, are the Avengers for the rest of the world. They're the Avengers that rise up above Dark Reign. They run around and save people and fight Avengers villains. And it's a big stick in Norman Osborn's craw—and maybe that's Loki's plan.

[moraldeficiency]

dp.

[Anubis]

Donkey Puncher!

[moraldeficiency]

Donkey Puncher!

can't help myself.

[BLACKVULCAN]

Dan Slott: His dead, ex-wife's brain and built by his robot son. It's like some robotic Greek tragedy.

yep! that's surreal.that's why i get the book!

[TheBlueRogue]

New Avengers' "great art" is debatable. I can't stand Billy Tan's work.

McNulty is a detective who's great at his job but lousy at life. He has a passion for justice that sometimes leads him to work outside the letter of the law and often puts him at odds with his bosses, since they tend to be bound by politics or personal corruption or just plain indifference and consequently get in the way of his investigations when they start revealing some unscrupulous practices by important political or community leaders. That naturally leads to a lot of frustration, which wreaks havoc in McNulty's personal life because he's terrible at dealing with said frustration. You'd have to watch The Wire to really get why the comparison is apt, but basically McNulty and Pym are both good at their jobs but unable to deal with certain character flaws that then snowball into full-on horror shows--relatively minor law-breaking that spirals totally out of control in McNulty's case and the low self-esteem that spirals into mental illness and wifebeating in Pym's case.


Thanks, and I think I'll be watching the wire sounds like a show I might end up enjoying.:woot: I'd also like to add that the cover for 26 looks amazing.

[TheCorpulent1]

yep! that's surreal.that's why i get the book!
Man's gotta take love where he can find it at this point. :D

[Harlekin]

Jimmy McNulty is also the guy in my avatar.

God, I love The Wire.

[Spider-Jay420]

New Avengers' "great art" is debatable. I can't stand Billy Tan's work.

I'm not a fan of his either. Isn't Stuart Immomen taking over art on NA now that he's done with Ultimate Spider-Man? I thought I read that somewhere...

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't know. That'd be nice, although I still wouldn't read NA.
Jimmy McNulty is also the guy in my avatar.

God, I love The Wire.
:up:

[BLACKVULCAN]

Man's gotta take love where he can find it at this point. :D
I'm all for "computer love" but being with the woman that your "son" created. oh man! that's too much for me.Hehe Good thing she isn't made out of Adamantium.
That would hurt!:woot:

[TheCorpulent1]

I'm sure she's got very soft, lush polymers of some kind where it counts. ;)

[BLACKVULCAN]

^you know that reminds me, i got this book in my garage where the Wasp was turned into Jocasta . i sat and stared at this book for hours as a kid
http://a4.vox.com/6a00cdf3ac0c23cb8f00e398ea1b340004-320pi
That George Prez is one kinky dude! No wonder i love him
Ouchie mama! those steel bands must be cold! brr
Thanks a lot George for seducing my innocent mind as a kid!

[Dread]

Yeah, Perez is pretty kinky.

Link to my review on the last issue, with spoilers:

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=17012729&postcount=6

Quite a doozy, this one.

[TheCorpulent1]

So I guess the honeymoon is over. :csad:

[Anubis]

Sounds okay to me.

[TheCorpulent1]

I meant with this week's issue. It had the first thing I genuinely disliked from Slott's run so far.

[Anubis]

What would that be? Pym choosing to rob the FF and go all mad scientist on them? Wouldn't be the first time.

But who cares about Pym's crazy? David Carradine is dead. :(

[TheCorpulent1]

The conversation between Pym and Reed. They were both such petty little b****es for no apparent reason.

[moraldeficiency]

Put two "smart" guys in room and watch what happens. People who consider themselves the best have issues with "equals".

[RockSP]

Put two "smart" guys in room and watch what happens. People who consider themselves the best have issues with "equals".

They've gotten along well in the past.

It seems to me there may be more going on than just a "nerd fight", though. Reed's response to Sue's demand that he apologize makes me think he might be testing Pym or something.

[Docker2.0]

Yeah they were some *****es for real. Reed was a bigger ***** though. Dude just wanted to borrow it for a minute. It's not like he was going to try and rule the world with it. Reed has been a ass for the past couple of years. Maybe they need to bring Malice back...........or is she already back in the bedroom?! :eek:

[TheCorpulent1]

They've gotten along well in the past.

It seems to me there may be more going on than just a "nerd fight", though. Reed's response to Sue's demand that he apologize makes me think he might be testing Pym or something.
I guess that would make sense for post-Civil War dickwad Reed. But the simplest solution seems like it would've been for Reed to allow Hank to use his thingamawhat'sit under Reed's supervision. Reed could've just been like, "Sure, Hank, of course that's all right. Why don't you come on over to the Baxter Building and fill me in?"

[Eros]

I guess that would make sense for post-Civil War dickwad Reed. But the simplest solution seems like it would've been for Reed to allow Hank to use his thingamawhat'sit under Reed's supervision. Reed could've just been like, "Sure, Hank, of course that's all right. Why don't you come on over to the Baxter Building and fill me in?"


well Reed has alot on his plate I assume [besides the thing with his kid], and I dought he wants someone especially someone as unstable as Pym messing with one of his Thingamawhats

[Dread]

It is possible that Pym in that agitated state would have reacted poorly to an offer by Reed to "use the machine under supervision." I could imagine Pym retorting, "What, you don't trust me to use something I helped invent? When was the last time anyone lambasted you every time you grab an Ultimate Nullifyer?" Granted, as I stated in my review, the situation would have been quickly solved had Pym probably been willing to swallow some pride, but he wasn't, not to Reed. He probably blames Reed, or at least holds him highly responsible, for the Skrull invasion that cost him a year of his life, and Bill Foster's death. And honestly, that's deserved. Everyone still blames Pym for Ultron, after all. But Reed's sins are usually ignored?

Also, "Civil War dickwad Reed" was resolved, how exactly? By a second honeymoon with Sue? I can understand Pym being frustrated by some hypocrisy here.

I knew this was going to be a superhero fight, and they usually come about over contrived circumstances, usually an overreaction. In that regard, this issue was no exception.

I can see that Dan is trying to grasp Hank Pym's full character, warts and all, going for a bit of a post-modern revision of him. A vision that doesn't simply make him an all-out maniac or a flawless superhero. The problem is straddling that middle ground isn't easy, and while I honestly have to admit the "It's on, B****!" scene was hilarious to me on pure juvenile humor terms (every now and then I am in the mood), it was a little over the top for me objectively. The fact that Pym was suddenly zealously planning a Wizard-esque raid on the Baxtor Building, siccing an eager Hercules against Thing outside of it (where property damage is likely), and has a scary looking machine in the basement doesn't help.

I am curious about the U.S. Agent & Quicksilver mission, though.

And I do see Stature's role as the only "normal" one, or at least more normal than the rest on a team of gods, reformed terrorists, uber-geniuses, and quite a few men who ego problems (Pym, Walker, Pietro, even Hercules on occasion), and of course two robots. She's the one asking some of the POV questions.

At this point, even if Slott does something that I may consider over the top or imperfect, my overall question is still the same; is it better than Bendis' MIGHTY AVENGERS? Right now it's still an easy yes.

[BrianWilly]

So I got around to reading this infamous little issue, and imo Reed is almost certainly just acting the ass in order to test Hank. I mean, come on, when Mark Millar is capable of handling these characters better than Slott, you know it's all just a trick.

On the other hand? I gotta agree that Hank comes off horribly here, and there's no tricking your way out of that. "It's on, b****"? Wow. I mean wow, that's some serious Countdown/Loeb caliber dialogue right there.

[Dread]

I'm not certain what "daring" Pym into taking on the Four is supposed to accomplish from Reed's perspective, though. To see if Pym is capable of breaching the Four's security? That's reckless if he honestly thinks Pym is a possible threat, or could be. Risking property damage or harm to the Four or the Avengers for a training exercise against their knowledge is a little callous; in "COLD COMFORT" from the X-MEN cartoon, Forge from X-Factor literally goads and tricks the X-Men into fighting X-Factor for real for, essentially, a "test" of the team and you're hardly supposed to sympathize. I kind of think both eggheads were being jerks, Pym is just the jerkiest of the two at the moment, but Reed is too stuck in his theory to back down, and they probably won't talk it out like gentlemen until Sue stops the fight with a force-field and screams "ENOUGH!" or something.

[chamber-music]

For the whole Clor thing alone Reed should be handing over the dimensional wave inducer to Pym.

[chris moore]

Bottom line, Reed's being a dick. Aside from all the obvious cock ups recently as stated by Hank, Reed's estrangement from Sue during the civil war because of his dubious decisions should have been enough to make him think he should trust his 'friend' a bit more.

And I think its really sad that Reed may know more about Pym Particles than Hank... I would like it if each of the big brains in the MU became acknowledged as being absolutely THE expert in a particular field. No more Reed Richards is the master of all sciences - never got ho the guy is better at biological fields than anyone else when its clear that he's a first and foremost a physicist. Give him the gadgets and machines and dimensional theories. Give Hank McCoy genetics (though of course others can be better at that than him such as Sinister, High Evolutionary). And give Pym biochemistry with no equal. Cybernetics can be his secondary, which is why Ultron was ultimately flawed and his ant man helmet is so cumbersome in all incarnations. That way Reed can be all in his face with cybernetics but can back the crap of when it comes to biochem.

[chamber-music]

I guess it would be cool to see Marvel acknowledge certain characters as leaders in their feild more Pym Biochemist, Hank McCoy geneticist, Amadeus Cho mathatician, Tony Stark/Forge Engineer, Bruce Banner physicist ect

Also I always thought the Marvel peeps missed a idea by not making one of the disciplines Professor Xavier studied Psychology. Given his telepathy making him a psychologist would be intresting instead of him being mainly an expert on genetics and mutation.

[chris moore]

Specially since the guy's done nothing, ever, in the lab. He's just known as an expert on mutation and understands what Hank says half the time. But we've never seen him researching bugger all - let alone putting any effort in with the legacy virus

[iloveclones]

Specially since the guy's done nothing, ever, in the lab. He's just known as an expert on mutation and understands what Hank says half the time. But we've never seen him researching bugger all - let alone putting any effort in with the legacy virus

You've actually pretty accurately described a functioning Research Lab. The PI (Principal Investigator) really spends most of their time writing grants, papers and planning experiments. They really spend little (if any) time in the lab. They leave that to Post Docs, techs, etc. In fact, most lab personnel cringe when a PI gets that inevitable itch to do some benchwork.

[chris moore]

I'm a researcher. All you said is true - but the Xavier institute is not funded by grants so Charles' role as PI is moot for the most part. He doesnt (by any inidication anyways) go over data with Hank, or propose the next step or even come up with any original ideas to even explore, regardless of their need to get it funded to be able to do it. A PI exists really because in order to do the work, you need money, to do that you need to write a grant, to have a chance at succeeding in winning the funding you need papers - therefore a PI can't get in the lab if they want to continue to have work coming in, hence hiring techs and postdocs and hence them getting so rusty its cringworthy to see them in there. Xavier doesnt appear to need the funding to do what he wants so there's really no reason he can;t be a hands on scientist like Hank

Hank would certainly be a PI, yet is constantly in the lab. The closest to a normal working lab would be Hank Pym and Bill Foster cos Bill was initially Hank's assistant.

[Upset Spideyfan]

Yeah I just read the issue. It was honestly fine except that scene. They didn't even bother try talking it out, it just escalated from civil to bitter enemies in a span of ten seconds.

[iloveclones]

I'm a researcher. All you said is true - but the Xavier institute is not funded by grants so Charles' role as PI is moot for the most part. He doesnt (by any inidication anyways) go over data with Hank, or propose the next step or even come up with any original ideas to even explore, regardless of their need to get it funded to be able to do it. A PI exists really because in order to do the work, you need money, to do that you need to write a grant, to have a chance at succeeding in winning the funding you need papers - therefore a PI can't get in the lab if they want to continue to have work coming in, hence hiring techs and postdocs and hence them getting so rusty its cringworthy to see them in there. Xavier doesnt appear to need the funding to do what he wants so there's really no reason he can;t be a hands on scientist like Hank

Hank would certainly be a PI, yet is constantly in the lab. The closest to a normal working lab would be Hank Pym and Bill Foster cos Bill was initially Hank's assistant.


You know that I was just sort of making a funny, right?

I try not to compare Marvel's hyper-reality with mine too much. I understand that law clerks sitting around a conference table doing research is much less dramatic storytelling than Matt Murdock making a speech in front of a jury. Likewise, I don't think anyone really wants to see how research is done (unless they've run out of Ambien.) For most, Hank sitting in a lab with twirly DNA holograms is about as in depth as they want to go.


It is funny to hear the "PI in the lab" thing is universal.

What's your field of research?

[chris moore]

I get what you mean. For one its not like Big Brother or something and we can see Xavier all day to know if he does or does not write papers. And for the biggie two of course, its a comic, so extrapolating a character's goings on off panel is a touch insane.

We all do it of course. Like when fans complain that a certain character would never act that way or say that thing is nuts cos they are only as developed as the writers write them. Anything after that is us creating little ongoing world's in our heads.

[BLACKVULCAN]

i agree with Dread that the whole story seem to be contrived to get superheroes fightning each other... but it has been a good 3 seconds since we had superheroes fighting each other. If those guys were to ever stop fighting each other. Maybe they could save the world.
It was cool for Hercules to say "so what? We are heroes! what's done is done! time to move on and put the smack down on people to pym though. i love Hercules!

[Dread]

For the whole Clor thing alone Reed should be handing over the dimensional wave inducer to Pym.

I do think part of the point that Slott was/is trying to make is that while everyone demonizes Hank Pym for his mistakes, foibles, and outright acts of craziness, that Mr. Fantastic is hardly without sin himself. Pym easily felt that Reed had no moral authority to be lecturing on being unstable when Reed had done plenty of iffy things of his own, including during when Pym was a Skrull captive with Jarvis. To be fair, Pym is aware that Quicksilver is lying when he blames the Skrulls for his last few escapades to the media, but is still willing to have him on the team without lecturing him every hour. The only reason Pym was dismissive of Pietro in issue #24 was because Pietro had snidely refused an offer to join in issue #23 (before seeing "Wanda" as part of it). Pym at least believes in redemption, but to other heroes, Pym himself will always be "crazy".

The problem is that while it is a fair point, Pym didn't help himself with schoolyard taunts or near Wizard level glee at "one up'ing" Reed. While Reed has his pride issues too, he's not cussing or gleefully planning a raid on a hero team. Trying to convince someone you're not reckless and dangerous by being reckless and dangerous is, well, counter-productive.

i agree with Dread that the whole story seem to be contrived to get superheroes fightning each other... but it has been a good 3 seconds since we had superheroes fighting each other. If those guys were to ever stop fighting each other. Maybe they could save the world.
It was cool for Hercules to say "so what? We are heroes! what's done is done! time to move on and put the smack down on people to pym though. i love Hercules!

Hercules has been cool. It is quite something to see Hercules of all people trying to ease someone's temper or suggest not doing something brash. Guess kid sidekicks change a man sometimes. :p

[Manic]

Herc spends so much time trying to stop Amadeus from toppling the US government for kicks, he's probably used to it.

[Upset Spideyfan]

Jocasta was smoking in this issue.

For a robot of course...

[chamber-music]

Atleast now that Jans dead Pym doesn't have to worry about Whirlwind trying to stalk or sexually assault her everytime his not around

[Anubis]

Well, Whirlwind could either try to go after him because he blames him for her death, or, he goes after the robot cuz, eh, it's better than nothing. :o

[Dread]

It would give Whirlwind something to do. Last I saw that bum, he was getting beaten by a pre-Initiative Justice in a Valentine's Day themed one-shot where he and Firestar officially ended their engagement. I think it was called I HEART MARVEL: MASKED INTENTIONS. He's one of the few mutants left on earth who kept their powers and isn't intertwined heavily with the X-Men.

[moraldeficiency]

It would give Whirlwind something to do. Last I saw that bum, he was getting beaten by a pre-Initiative Justice in a Valentine's Day themed one-shot where he and Firestar officially ended their engagement. I think it was called I HEART MARVEL: MASKED INTENTIONS. He's one of the few mutants left on earth who kept their powers and isn't intertwined heavily with the X-Men.

I believe he was last seen getting beat down by osborn and venom in Reason in Maddness one shot. He teamed with tigershark, hyde and boomerang to extort osborn trying to get gargan to help, but gargan betrayed them and teamed with norman instead. Norman broke whirlwind's arms and later told the group they now work for him.

[chamber-music]

Well, Whirlwind could either try to go after him because he blames him for her death, or, he goes after the robot cuz, eh, it's better than nothing. :o

Ah old Marvel and their human on robot loving ways :whatever:

[Dread]

I believe he was last seen getting beat down by osborn and venom in Reason in Maddness one shot. He teamed with tigershark, hyde and boomerang to extort osborn trying to get gargan to help, but gargan betrayed them and teamed with norman instead. Norman broke whirlwind's arms and later told the group they now work for him.

Whirlwind's had a rough career.

Then again, what do you expect for a guy whose "power" is "spinning"? I seriously never got that. Didn't some Handbooks just sort of claim, "it's super-speed, just with a specialty in spinning rather than running like any sane speedster"? I just never understood the mechanics of it.

[Anubis]

He's like DC's Top only far less powerful. The Top wasn't just a guy with a stupid costume who spun around, he had mental powers as well. He could spin your head into a tizzy.......yeah.


Anyway, finally read the issue. I liked it. Loled when he was like "It's on B***h!" Reminded me of Sheldon from the Big Bang Theory for some reason.

[Manic]

He reminds me of Sonia the Hedgehog. Her super-speed only manifested in the form of spinning, for some unknown reason. Dumbest superpower ever.

[Dread]

Sonia the Hedgehog from SONIC UNDERGROUND, circa 1999? Good lord. Nothing like Jaleel White voicing girls. :o

Anyway, I still am a bit torn. On the one hand, I think I stated at length in my review and replies some of the problems with that Pym scene. On the other hand, I have to admit I did laugh out loud, and the comedy of the moment was executed well.

[Manic]

Sonia the Hedgehog from SONIC UNDERGROUND, circa 1999? Good lord. Nothing like Jaleel White voicing girls. :o
True confession: my username came from Sonic Underground. Most people just assume "manic" means "manic," but my screen-name on my old WebTV was Manic_Hedgehog.

[Anubis]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/AnubisGOD/ogre.jpgNeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrdddddddddddddddddd ddddddddddddddd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dread]

True confession: my username came from Sonic Underground. Most people just assume "manic" means "manic," but my screen-name on my old WebTV was Manic_Hedgehog.

It never hit me because I watched little of SONIC UNDERGROUND. A true confession of my own; in the early 90's when Sonic was "hot", I liked him as a kid. By 1999, though, not so much. But, yeah, Manic the Hedgehog was the funky green one with the drums.

And yes, we are nerds. But it wasn't long ago when I was mentioning SILVERHAWKS. I have a Casey Jones avatar, who is a TMNT SIDE CHARACTER. :p

[chamber-music]

Does Pym have any good rogues. Ones like

Voice (limbo, worst dressed fat villain besides blob)
Protector (armored villain who ran a protection racket and had a a smoke gun)
Hijacker (dead)
Porcupine (award for the most ridiculous character to ever kick beasts ass)
Egghead (dead)
Comrade X (crossdressing commie irrelevant since cold war ended 20 years ago)

I can only think of Ultron.

[RockSP]

^Damn, I haven't heard of some of those guys but they come off lamer than Luke Cage's rogues gallery :o

[Ion Kenshin]

It never hit me because I watched little of SONIC UNDERGROUND. A true confession of my own; in the early 90's when Sonic was "hot", I liked him as a kid. By 1999, though, not so much. But, yeah, Manic the Hedgehog was the funky green one with the drums.

And yes, we are nerds. But it wasn't long ago when I was mentioning SILVERHAWKS. I have a Casey Jones avatar, who is a TMNT SIDE CHARACTER. :p
Great Show :up:

[TheCorpulent1]

I think Casey counts as a TMNT main character at this point. He's been there for every incarnation of the franchise and he's considered family by the turtles themselves (except in the movies, I guess).

[cerealkiller182]

I think Casey counts as a TMNT main character at this point. He's been there for every incarnation of the franchise and he's considered family by the turtles themselves (except in the movies, I guess).

i agree

[BLACKVULCAN]

http://mos.totalfilm.com/images/r/revenge-of-the-nerds-190-75.jpg
"but we arrrrrre *the Championnnnnnnss my friendzzz"


*not that cool ass super team with hercules,angel and ghost rider hehe

[Manic]

Don't make fun of Revenge of the Nerds. Some of those guys went on to do great things. Things like... um... be a doctor on E.R... and... play Lizzy McGuire's dad.

:csad:

[BLACKVULCAN]

who? what? where? me manic? i wasn't making fun. that was the great dog headed ruler Anubis. I love, Love! Revenge of the Nerds. I saw that in the theater( yes i am that old) and never have i been more proud to be a nerd then after that flick sniff sniff. Man! Anthony Edwards is da man . he was in Gotcha( great 80's flick with him shagging a hot Russian Spy) Top Gun( how could you not snifff cry with Goose got killed) and ER like you mentioned.ROTN is the movie my friend. It made nerds everywhere think they had a chance with the hot homecoming queen. They forgot to mention that you needs lots of cash though!! Hehe.... ...and before i get banned by Corp1. Geez louise! does Hank Pym have some sorry ass villains!!! Freakin The Voice?!?! ( see how i steered this back on track hehe)

[Dread]

Does Pym have any good rogues. Ones like

Voice (limbo, worst dressed fat villain besides blob)
Protector (armored villain who ran a protection racket and had a a smoke gun)
Hijacker (dead)
Porcupine (award for the most ridiculous character to ever kick beasts ass)
Egghead (dead)
Comrade X (crossdressing commie irrelevant since cold war ended 20 years ago)

I can only think of Ultron.

One you didn't mention was Doctor Nemesis. He was an evil scientist who basically was skilled at ripping off stuff from other scientists; he specialized in using Pym-like particles, he just was a bad guy. I think he last showed up in the comic themed FIN FANG FOUR, which means it's unlikely he will ever be used seriously again. Much like, well, the cast of NEXTWAVE. Machine Man's popped up since, but all anyone can do is try to rip off how Ellis wrote him, which won't work.

Despite the stupid name, the idea of someone using Pym science for outright, blatant, unapologetic acts of evil, rather than the "acts of emotional breakdown" that Pym is demonized for, could make for some interesting story lines. It is extremely unlikely, though. Too simple.

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/drnemesi.htm

Hmm, it seems he was in Mike McKone's ASM issues lately.

(Another Dr. Nemesis has shown up in UXM lately.)

I think Casey counts as a TMNT main character at this point. He's been there for every incarnation of the franchise and he's considered family by the turtles themselves (except in the movies, I guess).

To be fair, the only TMNT movie that Casey Jones didn't appear in was Turtles II: The Secret of the Ooze from 1991. Elias Koteas played Casey in the original (and best) Ninja Turtle film in 1990, and reprised the role, a bit thanklessly, in the third and god-awful Ninja Turtles III in 1993 that was the first nail in the franchise coffin. Even in the 2007 CGI film, "TMNT", which may as well be Turtles IV (it fits into the continuity of the prior films better than SUPERMAN RETURNS did for it's past films), Casey was recast by Chris Evens and played a large role; larger in earlier drafts.

In the Mirage comics and the newer 2K3 era cartoon, Jones has played a major role. Collective mainstream memory, though, attaches the Turtles to the 1987-1996 TV series, where in nearly 200 episodes Casey only showed up five times, which is about as often as Zach the 5th Turtle (and was more of a riff on Dirty Harry than his usual self; in 1989 when he debuted on TV, THE DEAD POOL was still a recent film). He also didn't appear in most of the video games that are considered classics, such as the TMNT ARCADE GAME from 1989-1990, and of course TURTLES IN TIME.

[THANOSRULES]

Isnt Ultron enough?

He's had some pretty impressive feats for a Marvel Villian, maybe the most successful ever.

[Dread]

Ultron has upgraded to more general Avengers and even Cosmic villain status. Pym just is always blamed for creating him.

Chamber-Music brought up other Pym centric villains and I simply was adding one he forgot.

[Anubis]

As lame as a character may seem, all it really takes is a decent writer to give it a new spin and they're awesome. Case in point? Flash's Rogues. If somebody could make guys like Mirror Master and Weather Wizard some of the greatest villains in comics, i'm pretty sure somebody could do something with the Voice, or Comrade X. Hell, Comrade X would probably be the easiest of all. Just do with him what was done to all X KGB types. Russian Mob.

[Dread]

Hence why I made sure Dr. Nemesis, the non UXM one, was noted. :p

[THANOSRULES]

The reason Pym's got no good solo rogues, is simply he hasnt had any success in his own book aside from Avengers.

The pre-req to any good rogues gallery is they probably arose to feed a solo ongoing.

Heck Night Thrasher probably has better rogues.

[Dread]

To be fair, Pym did have solo adventures in the early 60's and such. He and Wasp were crime fighting partners before joining the Avengers after all. That is why many of his non-Ultron rogues are simple and a bit cheesy, they stem from those 60's anthology stories.

[chamber-music]

^Damn, I haven't heard of some of those guys but they come off lamer than Luke Cage's rogues gallery :o
I actually love Luke Cages rogues they are comedy gold :woot:
As lame as a character may seem, all it really takes is a decent writer to give it a new spin and they're awesome. Case in point? Flash's Rogues. If somebody could make guys like Mirror Master and Weather Wizard some of the greatest villains in comics, i'm pretty sure somebody could do something with the Voice, or Comrade X. Hell, Comrade X would probably be the easiest of all. Just do with him what was done to all X KGB types. Russian Mob.
I agree I love what they did with the flash rogues. If more writers paid attention to upgrading old villains it would be awesome.

[moraldeficiency]

Gravitron would be a good nemesis for Pym if they brought him back. It isn't like they have to use official pym rogues. Wolverine jacked sabretooth from iron fist. I know nothing of his standard rogues there.

Totally agree chamber-music, you look at what they do now and it feels like if it's not new and fresh it must suck. All the spider-man villians are getting "cool new different gender status'" and it's a shame. People equate history and depth with baggage and it sucks. Most of the older villians have a surprising amount of great characterization to play with if a writer would bother at all.

[TheCorpulent1]

Graviton would be a huge uphill battle for Pym, but I wouldn't mind seeing him become Pym's nemesis.

[Eros]

I always assumed Ultron was Pyms Nemesis, pym created him ,and he went bad, and became a great villian. Its the best hero to nemesis relationship I can think of.

[TheCorpulent1]

He's more of an Avengers nemesis, though. He's at least as much a nemesis of Vision as Pym, too.

[iloveclones]

Gravitron would be a good nemesis for Pym if they brought him back. It isn't like they have to use official pym rogues. Wolverine jacked sabretooth from iron fist. I know nothing of his standard rogues there.


Same with Kingpin and DD.

Graviton might be a good nemesis because of shared history and because he's powerful. But I think an arch has to have some quality that puts the animosity/competition over everything else. For instance, I think when Doom is written well, he would drop everything he was doing to screw over Reed. Same with Kingpin, Green Goblin, and Red Skull. When it comes down to it, if any of them were on the verge of complete victory in whatever scheme they have running, they would dump all of it to get to DD, Spidey or Cap.

[moraldeficiency]

True and they don't have much of a shared history, though I do remember a time when gravitron tricked pym into giving him some pym particles which made him super powerful or something. Now if they ran some type of ramifications to what happened there, we could have enough to start a rivalry. I think the doom comparison is very valid. Reed trumps doom but only with careful thought or the use of his teammates, gravitron could be that for Pym since he out powers him and is a genius as well.

[THANOSRULES]

I think you could throw in many of the old West Coast Avengers bad guys as possible pym nemisis.

I think Swarm would be a good Pym foe, but they seemed to handle him pretty easy last time so I doubt its in the works.

[RockSP]

I think you could throw in many of the old West Coast Avengers bad guys as possible pym nemisis.

Just as long as they don't bring back that cactus guy.

[Dread]

I did like how Slott naturally remembered that Swarm debuted in THE CHAMPIONS in the 70's and that Hercules had done battle with him before (and was actually key to that initial victory). Speaking of "hijacked villains", Swarm would pop up in Spider-Man's books and is usually considered one of his D-List enemies now.

Graviton would be fine. He's always had the potential to be a Magneto level bad guy but never managed. I also wouldn't mind a return of Count Nefaria. He's a mobster with Superman-esque power levels. That frigging writes itself. It's amazing he's been in limbo for about five years.

[Anubis]

It was for the best. Just imagine how s**ty Bendis would have made him. Probably had Luke Cage go "Boo" and make him s**t his pants. :o

[Dread]

That still doesn't mean no one else could have used him before now. Yes, I know Bendis would have mishandled him. He got his powers wrong in NEW AVENGERS #2 and left the Handbook people to explain it.

Hell, Nefaria could be said to have retreated overseas to rebuild his power base and thus give a reason to visit another country; I think he does hail from Italy, after all.

[Anubis]

Let's hope Slott uses him then since he's got the real Avengers.

[Dread]

He certainly would be challenge to their line up. At full ionic charge, he could slap Thor around, after all. The only member of the team in that league is Hercules, and he's more blunt force than Thor is (least in theory). It would be fun to use Nefaria to set up an international crime syndicate plot.

[THANOSRULES]

I love how every one of the Hoods gang is great example of Bendis getting powers completely wrong.

Dr. Demonicus is kicking in doors with double pistols like he's deadpool.

[chamber-music]

I could never take Swarm seriously I mean the guys a Nazi made of Bees!

Didn't the West Coast Avengers spend about as much time fighting each other as they did supervillains?

Pyms lost two wives perhaps Cyclops could give him some counselling his good at handling the whole my wife keeps dying thing.

[Manic]

Pym probably resents Cyclops. Scott's wives always come back from the dead, after all.

[chamber-music]

Ture but Cyclops can't make robot versions of his dead wives and Pym has to create robot of offspring that want to kill him while Scott has numerous siblings/clones/alternate reality family that are willing to do the job.

[BLACKVULCAN]

Wolverine jacked sabretooth from iron fist.
Man! i am still P.O.ed about that:cmad:
1) they took a perfectly good hood and had to "mutantize" him!
and
2) With Luke Cage palling around with Iron Fist during those days. Luke should JACKED him and had a Legitimate Super-Villain Hehe. I mean i get what you guys are saying about a good writer making a inept villain great, but come on!it would take a truly exceptional writer of immense talent to make Mr. *&^%$#^ Fish a doom league Villain . The dude is giant sized bass for heaven's sake!

[Anubis]

Lets face it, if he stayed an iron fist villain, he would have went the way of just about every Marvel 2 in one or Marvel Team Up villain ever made, which means permanent limbo........maybe that wouldn't have been a bad thing now that I think about it.

[BLACKVULCAN]

........maybe that wouldn't have been a bad thing now that I think about it.
yeah and we would've been spared years of suppressed memories of Weapon X, killing Silver fox, fake memory implants, endless vicious cycle with Wolverine bull&^%$#@*&&. He would've just been a hood out to get some*cheese with an Axe to grind with Luke.Hehe

* urban slang for money for those who dont know and now that you do knowing that is half the battlle yo joe

[TheCorpulent1]

I liked the killing Silver Fox/Weapon X stuff. Good basis for a rivalry. A lot of other stuff with Sabretooth over the years has been pretty terrible, though.

[BLACKVULCAN]

it would have been cool if he had killed her but then she turned out to a Hydra agent who memory implanted Sabertooth killing her, so wolverine would be pissed. Man! see all this fake memory stuff. i havent read X-men in so long ,but they ain't Brothers right? that stupid movie made them brothers!!even they are adding stuff on top of stuff. Ah the good ole days for*Stilt -Man who just wanted some cash and babes!

* hehe he sucked but i loved that dude

[TheCorpulent1]

Oh, I never heard about the HYDRA agent part. Yeah, that's kind of lame. A story can only take so many fake memories.

As far as I know, Wolverine and Sabretooth aren't blood relatives at all. There was talk of Dog from Origin (who is Wolverine's half-brother, at least) growing up to be Sabretooth, but nothing ever came of that. I suspect the movie just changed it because Wolverine and Sabretooth's powers were too similar, and they didn't have the numerous other mutants with abilities much like theirs to point to in the movie so it could still plausibly be random coincidence.

[BLACKVULCAN]

man! i was like These guy are bothers now?!?! thinking the movie was copying the book ,not having read Xmen in forever.i was sitting there thinking I am so done with both of these guys.The only wolverine contact i have is him in the New Avenger book.

[Dread]

The less said about X-MEN ORIGINS: WOLVERINE the better. I was disappointed enough that I started typing one of my 40,000 word reviews of it for the movie board, tearing into it, and then decided the movie wasn't worth the effort. Seriously. It was so bad that, unlike a Bendis comic, it wasn't worth typing a gazillion words to complain about. TO ME.

The last time I watched a movie that was such a shameless cash in while also being a complete waste of cinematic talent, it was 1993 and it was TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURTLES III. Only in that film's defense, it had more of a coherent plot and more straight-up, if not horrible, comedy than the overly serious WOLVERINE.

I'd said quite a few times on the IMMORTAL IRON FIST topic that I would have loved to have Iron Fist have a rematch with Sabretooth now that both are more powerful than they were in the 70's. Just because Sabretooth is mainly a Wolverine/X-Men adversary doesn't mean he couldn't occasionally fight other people. Rhino is supposed to be a Spider-Man enemy, yet he's fought everyone from the Hulk to the Thing to ****ing Gravity. He is supposed to be a hired hit-man after all, and it stretches coincidence that the ONLY Marvel superhero he always seems to run into is Wolverine. Granted, he's been decapitated by a magical sword. :o

I love how every one of the Hoods gang is great example of Bendis getting powers completely wrong.

Dr. Demonicus is kicking in doors with double pistols like he's deadpool.

Bendis does that. Yeah, I hated how he in no way played villains to their strengths in Hood's gang. Even if they were mad scientists, they'd usually just charge in with fists like they were henchmen in the 60's BATMAN show.

[chamber-music]

2) With Luke Cage palling around with Iron Fist during those days. Luke should JACKED him and had a Legitimate Super-Villain Hehe. I mean i get what you guys are saying about a good writer making a inept villain great, but come on!it would take a truly exceptional writer of immense talent to make Mr. *&^%$#^ Fish a doom league Villain . The dude is giant sized bass for heaven's sake!

Mr Fish had his own catch phrase "No one laughs at Mr. Fish!" :funny:
He had a midget sidekick and everything it was seventies cheese at its best!

[BLACKVULCAN]

yeah. i think even Shakespeare would have a tough time turning Mr fish into a worthy adversary.
it was seventies cheese at its best!
well you know
70's= Cheese
80's= grim and gritty
90's= "boo hoo" emotional baggage
2000= people making deals with the devil,l getting blasted back in time to live in caves, becoming director of national security for some lame ass act, red people being able to defeat anyone after reading files.... search me! i am still trying to figure out what the hell is going on now . hehe

[RockSP]

search me! i am still trying to figure out what the hell is going on now . hehe

Everything from the 70s, 80s and 90s...plus ridiculous price hikes.

[TheCorpulent1]

All organized into convenient, multi-part events.

And by "convenient" I mean annoyingly frequent.

[chamber-music]

Marvel loves there Cash Cows..........sorry I mean Crossovers after which nothing in marvel universe will ever be the same yadda yadda Stan Lee's mustache

[Dread]

Preview for MIGHTY AVENGERS #26, out next week:

http://comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=2826&disp=table

- Phase One of Pym's "One Up The Wizard" style raid of the FF building works.
- Pym decides to see if Wanda was on to something with her romantic choices.

[Anubis]

Sweet.

[CaptainCanada]

I'm still kind of eh on how Slott is using some of these characters (Cassie, in this instance; Jocasta calls her a "whiny brat" because...she objects to be transported unknowingly to the Avengers' base, drafted onto a team with her father's murderer, and not wanting to start a fight with the Fantastic Four).

[Anubis]

Well yeah. She wanted to be a superhero.....that's the type of s**t you gotta get used to. You don't wanna do it, then turn in your tights.

[Dread]

Cassie is basically supposed to be the "normal one" on a team full of robots, ex-terrorists, jerks, and emotional misfits. On that level she works. Aside for her, the only almost normal one is Hercules or maybe Jarvis.

My biggest concern is that while desperate to solve his Pym Pocket problem, it may have become a bit of a "brain ego" challenge for Pym. The problem with that, of course, is that "wanting to commit crimes against the FF to prove the superior intellect" is basically the Wizard's motivation. Still, I do think a lot of this is deliberate. If Slott wrote the characters as being, well, a bit less crazy, it would probably be boring and formulaic. ANYONE could write Pym as a token successful, almost perfect genius with a gimmick. The trick is to be able to juggle his positive traits with his faults to write his full character. While I won't say Slott's succeeded completely at this time, I do think he is trying, and I am enjoying his run so far.

Besides, when Bendis was "struggling" with in his first 6 issues on NEW AVENGERS, everyone told disbelievers to be patient for another 6-56 issues. Even on some of his off stories, I usually like Slott's work better than other writers.

[Eros]

Art is still terrible.

[Anubis]

You really should ask to have your name changed to Captain Killjoy, Eros. :o

[chamber-music]

Reeds gonna need a big can of bug spray!

[TheCorpulent1]

I'm still kind of eh on how Slott is using some of these characters (Cassie, in this instance; Jocasta calls her a "whiny brat" because...she objects to be transported unknowingly to the Avengers' base, drafted onto a team with her father's murderer, and not wanting to start a fight with the Fantastic Four).
I have to agree. Some of Slott's use of the characters is starting to feel awkward. But maybe it'll improve again when he's not manufacturing a totally unnecessary (and annoyingly petty) fight between the Avengers and the FF.

[Dread]

The only one that concerns me with how Slott is handling them is Pym. Not that I think it is bad, but I still sort of wonder exactly where he is going and I sort of sense some attempts to feel out various angles of him. You could argue that perhaps one dilemma of the run is that Slott may sometimes be distracted with doing something more historic based with the characters that he sometimes distracts himself. For instance, the first arc with Chthon was distracted by Hulk and Iron Man. Sure, they were there because they were there for the founding, and Slott wanted to have Stark and Pym interact, but they bled page time from the real team he wanted to make. Hulk probably could have been cut and the story only minimally effected, while his pages could have fleshed someone else.

This story, I think while the aim is to have Pym match brains with Reed to sort of prove his might, such as when someone battles Batman or Wolverine these days, the method to get there is a little obligatory. I know the point was to show that both of them are a little prone to ego and temper, especially Pym, but often times superhero vs. superhero fights are contrived and often are overblown misunderstandings. If a co-worker accidentally eats one of your sandwiches, there might be some raised voices but by and large it would be settled easily; a made up lunch, an apology, etc. But for superheroes, that **** leads to seven city blocks of destruction and at least one vow to destroy the other. It's a cliche and it wouldn't seem quite as old except that CIVIL WAR did it to death barely more than 2 years ago.

Beyond that, though, I'm fine with the rest of the characters. Jocasta has usually been a bit messed up, having Janet's brain patterns but being her own robot. Jarvis is Jarvis and he will insist on serving tea in the middle of some ridiculous crisis (I remember one much loved story from an annual or special way back that had Jarvis calmly fixing up the Mansion and trying to save stuff from breaking during a battle between the Avengers and viking robots). Both U.S. Agent and Quicksilver are as arrogant and hot-tempered as one would expect, and pairing them together in a mission is brilliant. Stature, as noted, works as the "normal Munster", the voice of reason or relative innocence among the din. Cho and Hercules are both handled fine.

So for me the only "iffy" character is Pym himself, and considering that no other writer has managed to write Pym very well for the past, oh, about 5-7 years, I am willing to be a little patient with Slott and see where he is going with it. He's had enough characters comment on Pym's behavior or method of coping that I believe he is going somewhere with it.

And remember, the last time Pym seemed to just be run-of-the-mill generic competent, he was a Skrull. ;)

[Mr. Green]

Why the HELL would they change the art team? Sandoval was KILLING the art on MA. Him and Slott were making magic and they changed the art team.

I don't know whose decision that was but they should be fired.

Twice.

The last issue still rocked. I'm just saying...

[Manic]

I love Sandoval. He's really too good to be taken off of this book.

[Eros]

Mighty avengers is like watching a really good movie with bad special effects.

[Manic]

Like an independent movie with an action scene, basically.

[CaptainCanada]

Why the HELL would they change the art team? Sandoval was KILLING the art on MA. Him and Slott were making magic and they changed the art team.

I don't know whose decision that was but they should be fired.

Twice.

The last issue still rocked. I'm just saying...
Sandoval was never on the art team; he was a one-issue fill-in (the current arc being a second fill-in).

[Manic]

Well, he needs to come back. I've loved him ever since he did the last few issues of Young X-Men.

[TheCorpulent1]

He really is quite good. But apparently he's doing A:TI now.

[Mr. Green]

That's stupid. MA should be way more of a priority art quality-wise because it's a "real" Avengers book.

[TheCorpulent1]

I would think so as well, but apparently it's not. I guess MA is too Avengers and not New enough.

[CaptainCanada]

Well, quality being subjective, the higher-ups are clearly very enamoured with Pham's art; after all, he was assigned to this title when Bendis was writing it (at Bendis' request, I believe).

[TheCorpulent1]

It's unfortunate he couldn't draw more than one arc before the fill-in-fest, then.

[Dread]

That's stupid. MA should be way more of a priority art quality-wise because it's a "real" Avengers book.

I agree. However, it seems that for the time being, Khoi Pham is seen as the "regular" artist. Like most modern regular artists, he does one arc, and then does covers until he is able to do another arc. He's not my favorite artist, and sometimes is only as good as his inker/colorist, but he's nothing atrocious. I do agree that MIGHTY AVENGERS should be seen as a big assignment.

To be fair, while the first "arc" of Slott's MIGHTY AVENGERS run was the 3 part Chthon story, the first chapter, priced at $3.99, actually did have an extra 10-14 pages of story material. So within whatever time that an artist is given for 3 issues of pencil art, Pham did three and a half. And, yes, it should be noted that he did quite a few of Bendis' SECRET INVASION tie in issues for MIGHTY AVENGERS. Under that circumstance, needing some months off for Pham isn't too unusual. At least he's not Greg Land Photoshopping some MAXIM.

[chamber-music]

Ah! Pym and his sonic screwdriver knockoff

Jocasta gets stranger by the issue

Cho owned by a toddler awesome

[Mr. Green]

When did Cho get owned by a toddler?

[TheCorpulent1]

Heh, the sonic screwdriver joke was funny. Good issue overall. Jocasta's weirdness is starting to bug me, though.

[JustABill]

I thought she was possessed with some kinda of androidic demon or something when she told Cassie she was being a big brat.

An androdic demon that apparently likes to tell the ****ing truth, but all the same. :o

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, there's clearly something going on with her. Maybe it's just a psychological thing since she's apparently f***ing her God now.