The Official Flash thread

[Blackman]

I dropped this after the first issue. I'm not against retconning, but I really don't like the way it's being handled here. I'll be back when someone either cleans up this mess, or chooses to ignore it. It's a little frustrating when there are so many good comics out right now that most fans don't even consider reading, because they're so focused on collecting these big "event" titles...I am 40 years old. I remember Barry Allen as he was before. And his death in Crisis, while tragic, was not earth shattering. He was a very boring character back then. I loved Wally taking over the legacy. Contrary to what TPTB at DC say.... there really is not any reason for Barry to return. Barry is simply NOT what they think he is. He is just as boring as ever. And sadly.... Johns is reinforcing the boredom by writing him as a straight-laced detective who does not compromise on anything in regards to justice. He is black or white. No in between. In other words.... just like he always was before when they killed him off. Yet here DC goes writing him in the same way?


I already don't like Barry.... and his haircut makes him look like a military drop out. Both in terms of character, appearance and attitude.... I don't like him. He has no edge. He has no 'grey'.

In short.... BORING and forgettable. Just whe I thought that no character could get any more boring and useless as Jay Garrick..... we get the "new" Barry Allen. Sad.

Really sad.

At least the zany and entertaining Bart is back to being young again. But Barry is a HUGE dissapointment. He has been back for 5 minutes and I already want him dead again. Lord knows his personality was just as exciting dead as it is when it is alive.

You can't hit it out of the park everytime Johns.
^^^some guy from IGN
:applaud
But in all seriousness I picked up the first issue and it was alright

[Flash Facts]

Since when is Christina a servant of Savitar again. Last I remember she was trying to pull him out of haven to make him suffer.

The Black Flash on the cover of #5 looks horrible.

[Blackman]

lol its a funny cover tho...

[Cosmic]

Blackman, did you mean to add all of that stuff onto my quote, or is that your view of Rebirth?

[Blackman]

nah, actually I forgot to say those are the thoughts from some guy comment on IGN's Flash: Rebirth 2 review and I agree with him

[Cosmic]

Gotcha. I agree with some of that, although I did like Barry as Flash in Pre-Crisis DC.

[BrianWilly]

Maaaaannnnn f**k Barry Allen.

[Blackman]

^^^Lol amen. YOu guys need to talk some sense into the guys in the Flash movie thread. Dudes are delusional

[Anubis]

It's slowly becoming the mantra of the Wally West Fans.

[sdc10]

Heres an idea for DC, how bout changing up some of the flashes costumes? Its kinda hard to keep track of all of them when they're all wearing the same costume. Also, im not a big fan of Bart coming back either, really cheapens the whole concept of death in the dc universe. I mean its not like Barry where he was gone for 25 years.

[Colossal Spoons]

It's Hal and Kyle all over again

[Blackman]

^^^??????

[hippie_hunter]

Heres an idea for DC, how bout changing up some of the flashes costumes? Its kinda hard to keep track of all of them when they're all wearing the same costume. Also, im not a big fan of Bart coming back either, really cheapens the whole concept of death in the dc universe. I mean its not like Barry where he was gone for 25 years.

Bart prematurely died. Even though the last issue of the Flash: The Fastest Man Alive was damn good, he shouldn't have died in the first place.

You had Jay be the Flash for 20 years. Then Barry for 30 years. And Wally for 20 years. And then you have Bart for 13 issues. Bullcrap. And Guggenheim was really turning the book around from the mediocrity to averageness that was Bilson and DeMeo.

[Scarecrow_King]

I liked Bart. I'm glad he got to be the Flash, and now has a chance to step back into Kid Flash. I think it gives him a good opportunity to fall back into his pre-OYL characterization. he's been the Flash and knows what responsibility lies in his future. so he can take this opportunity as Kid Flash to have fun and be immature while he can, before he has to inevitably take the Flash mantle again. but Bart always knew when he had to get serious. so he can still be a major player in the DCU. especially in the Teen Titans, where I think he really belongs.

thats what I would like to see, anyway.

[cerealkiller182]

Bringing back Barry cheapens death in DC way more than bringing back Bart. Barry's death was important and mournful, Bart's had one issue and was forgotten.

[Scarecrow_King]

yeah, there are important deaths in the DCU that have been undone that really anger me. Jason Todd should've stayed dead in my opinion. and Barry. the DCU was getting along just fine with Barry being dead. there was no need to bring him back at all. except to give Johns the opportunity to do another siver age rebirth.

bart, on the other hand has been a relevant character at LEAST since he joined the Teen Titans. I don't think he should've died in the first place. or aged, for that matter. I like my Kid Flash to be a kid. that's why i'm excited about him being back to his proper age and being back in the yellow.

[TheCorpulent1]

Jason Todd should've stayed dead more than anyone else. At least Johns has a clear idea of what he wants to do with Barry. Jason's just bounced around from one utterly ludicrous direction to another for years now.

[Darthphere]

Black Flash is racist.

[hippie_hunter]

Jason Todd should've stayed dead more than anyone else. At least Johns has a clear idea of what he wants to do with Barry. Jason's just bounced around from one utterly ludicrous direction to another for years now.

They should have kept him in the direction that Winick put him in when he was resurrected.

Having him be a multiversal dimensional hopper with a crush on Donna Troy was lame and having him literally take everyone's identity like Nightwing and Batman is stupid as hell (after taking Robin, Red Robin, Nightwing, Red Hood, and Batman, I'm kinda expecting him to be the next Batgirl or something).

[TheCorpulent1]

That promo pic of the new Batgirl is actually him, several hundred estrogen injections from now.

[Darthphere]

Octo-Todd.

[CLARKY]

Well, now I don't know about that. I think Barry is a good character, but his death was, in my opinion, probably the most well done death in comic history. It also was hugely significant to not just DC comics, but to comic history. Plus, he was successfully replaced for over 20 years. Of course, personal bias does come into play with that. Some will always like Wally the best and some will always like Barry more. Personally, I think Wally was the better and more interesting character of the two.
To me, bringing back Barry is about the same as Marvel bringing back Uncle Ben or Gwen Stacy and making them regular cast members in Spider-Man. Not only is it unneeded, I also think it dulls down the significance of them.
Yeah I agree. Barry was lik Gwen stacy or Uncle Ben. and Wally was not a replacement but a successor. I remember the crap that Dan Didio said about Barry and Wally, something like "I like them both but it is impossible to know Wally if you do not know Barry", just when Dick is supposed to take the mantle of the bat ... It leaves me skeptical ...
Furthermore, Wally has, as you said Teardrop, successfully replaced Barry.
I could keep hoping for the return of Waaly but in the end, oall that I have seen of G.Johns, in interviews, etc ..., is that he plans on the long term and is ready to "face" the Wally West fans complains. So he won't say "hey, that was a mistake" or "let's transform this into a better Wally story". on the long term, nothing is impossible, you can take all the time you want to make everything fits. And that's what G.Johns does, so I suppose in 50 issues, everyone will claim that Barry is the Flash. I'm sure I will agree, but it will certainly be more my brain speaking than my heart. So I do not hope anything, just stop reading the Flash I guess, even if I am pretty sure the stories will be great and clever and exciting. for that I trust G.Johns. But It just erases everything Wally did as THE Flash, all that he did to make the identity his own (and everything DC did to put him in this place).

Anyway, I did not like the last issue very much. It shows Barry like a complete idiot before getting his powers. And I do not dig the my-mom-was-killed thing. And, .. there are some things I'm not sure about : for example : did Barry really die as a saint ? (and in blackest night #0, did Hal die like a sinner with his tombstone destroyed ?!?!). I have read this :
http://absorbascon.blogspot.com/2009/04/flash-back.html
and even if I am not in agreement with everything, I admit I have the impression that G.Johns just lie about some subjects.
Nevertheless, I was completely surprised by the Black Flash thing. And very briefly I thought : if Barry would become the new black Flash THAT would be really unexpected ! But I guess it won't happen. :(
I still think it is a mistake to bring back Barry Allen, but I'm sure I'll be proven wrong on the long term. :(

[Seibrix]

Problem with Wally is that Dc put too much on his plate. Him being married should have been enough and I think they wrote themselves into a jam and don't know how to write wally in the long term. With that said, I think DC should do with Wally what marvel did with spiderman. Make dealings with evil cosmic beings. That should fix everything. :)

[CLARKY]

DC ... or Johns himself. Wally being married was no problem for me, but the children was an obvious for m of death of the character in my opinion. And it was G.Johns idea.

[Kenda Man]

Problem with Wally is that Dc put too much on his plate. Him being married should have been enough and I think they wrote themselves into a jam and don't know how to write wally in the long term. With that said, I think DC should do with Wally what marvel did with spiderman. Make dealings with evil cosmic beings. That should fix everything. :)

Wally made a deal with a cosmic being way before Spider-Man did with Mephisto. It's alittle something I call recon with Hal "The Spectre" Jordan. Remember when Wally at the end of the trade "BLITZ" wished that no one would know his secret identity as the Flash, and the Spectre granted him the wish, and in return he didn't even realize he was the Flash himself and that led to "Ignition"? It was interesting stuff and The Spectre put in safety locks so that when Wally revealed himself to his friends, they instantly remembered everything about the him being the Flash.

You are right about him having too much on his plate. Family, trying to find a job, saving keystone city, trying-to-find-a -way-to-not-let-his-children-age-too-fast-and-die,etc. He had as many problems as Spider-man, plus a family to take care of. I'm cool with heroes having families, but to age Wally's kids out of nowhere and appearing out of nowhere was a little too fast and wasn't as progressive as I liked.

I'm interested in seeing Professor Zoom return. I know must people don't survive a snapped neck, but I'm pulling for him. I don't want to see ZOOM, Hunter Zolomon, to be the main Reverse Flash for Barry. ZOOM should strictly remain as Wally's enemy, not Barry's.

Anyone else curious to see Barry interacting with the rogues? I'm curious to see how he handles them and I guess they haven't interacted yet because Barry has the death touch as if right now.

[Paradox1]

I've just started to read the Flash again I haven't read for a long time. Bart's story weren't doing it for me as a fan of the Flash so I stopped reading. I'm really excited about Barry being back and what they do with him.I'm a huge Geoff Johns fans from his work on Green Lantern so I know he'll do right by the character.

[Seibrix]

Lol thats right. They already used that(good run too). Well I guess thats that. Long live the silver age.

[TheCorpulent1]

I never had a problem with Wally's kids. The problem was that people wrote pretty crappy stories around them. Waid's focus on the kids was too much, too fast. Peyer got rid of the super-fast aging threat, so they're fine now and they could've been the basis for better stories, only Wally's comic was canceled shortly after. It always amuses me how comic fans claim to love progress and character arcs but then point at marriages and kids as detriments to a character.

[Anubis]

Maaaaaannnnn f**k Barry Allen.

[Colossal Spoons]

You can progress without getting married and having annoying children though

[Anubis]

Like for instance, having kids that aren't annoying out of wedlock.

[Colossal Spoons]

Which is why Roy Harper is the alpha male of the DC Universe. Woulda said Ollie but he went and married that betch Canary.

high-five

[TheCorpulent1]

You can progress without getting married and having annoying children though
You can, but you can also progress them with those things. There's nothing inherently wrong with a man growing up, getting married, and having children.

[Colossal Spoons]

No, not at all. But like you said, those kids took over Wally's life and book unfortunately. I prefer parents like.....Deathstroke :up::o

[TheCorpulent1]

So fault the writer, not the kids.

[Ion Kenshin]

The problem I tend to see with people who write kids into comics is that most people seem to equate child to annoying. Which is hardly the case. Kids are not always annoying. Yes they have their moments and yes there are some kids who are annoying 24/7 but it is not true for all. It is possible to write kids into comics and not make them insanely annoying.

[Colossal Spoons]

Roy's daughter isn't annoying at all. :up:

[TheCorpulent1]

She also doesn't do anything other than get taken hostage every now and then.

[Colossal Spoons]

Perfect. She's also very good at staying with the babysitter while Roy has "adventures" during the night :up:

[Doc Destruction]

So fault the writer, not the kids.

Easier to take the cop out.

[Anubis]

There's lots of things that could be done with kids that writers just seem to completely ignore. They're too busy trying to age them up so they can put on a costume and fight. How about let the kid stay a baby for awhile? There are all sorts of things that could be done with a Superhero having to take care of a kid. Like, say for instance Lois and Supes finally have a kid. The kid has the croup, so Supes takes him/her out for a walk in the clouds on a warm night. That, that's just an awesome scene just thinking about it. Or, like I suggested a few dozen pages ago, Flash running around the whole day fighting super villains and saving the day, not realizing he's got poop on his costume from changing diapers. Play it up for laughs, but most important, don't make it what the whole book is all about. You'd think most people would get this simple concept, but I have rarely seen anybody handle it right.

[Lobo]

The problem I tend to see with people who write kids into comics is that most people seem to equate child to annoying. Which is hardly the case. Kids are not always annoying. Yes they have their moments and yes there are some kids who are annoying 24/7 but it is not true for all. It is possible to write kids into comics and not make them insanely annoying.

That, and children have to age, wehreas the adult superheroes always stay around 30, so 90% of Superkids end up rapidly aging, which is annoying to me.

[Ion Kenshin]

That, and children have to age, wehreas the adult superheroes always stay around 30, so 90% of Superkids end up rapidly aging, which is annoying to me.
I agree. Or you get the case of Franklin Richards where for the longest time you couldn't even decipher how old he was. Hell I still don't know :hehe:

[TheCorpulent1]

There's lots of things that could be done with kids that writers just seem to completely ignore. They're too busy trying to age them up so they can put on a costume and fight. How about let the kid stay a baby for awhile? There are all sorts of things that could be done with a Superhero having to take care of a kid. Like, say for instance Lois and Supes finally have a kid. The kid has the croup, so Supes takes him/her out for a walk in the clouds on a warm night. That, that's just an awesome scene just thinking about it. Or, like I suggested a few dozen pages ago, Flash running around the whole day fighting super villains and saving the day, not realizing he's got poop on his costume from changing diapers. Play it up for laughs, but most important, don't make it what the whole book is all about. You'd think most people would get this simple concept, but I have rarely seen anybody handle it right.
I think the prevailing perception is that babies = boring.

[Anubis]

Pfft, anybody that's ever spent any amount of time with babies knows that babies are anything but boring. They're stressful like money sucking poop machines. We're talking lack of sleep on top of people that already suffer from a lack of sleep. Imagine if Flash forgets to vibrate out of the way of a bullet cuz he's had like maybe an hour of sleep over the last week?

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, babies aren't boring, they just suck.

[Anubis]

Well, the good thing about babies on tv and in comics is, you can just ignore them and focus attention on something else. Like the kids on Everybody loves Raymond. To this day I still don't know their names. Cuz the show wasn't about them. Which is how you should handle superhero offspring in comics. Only put focus on them when you actually have something to say. Hopefully not villain who knows my secret ID kidnaps kid plot #31. :o

[TheCorpulent1]

I watched that show on and off for years without even realizing his "kid" was twins. And then I watched for another long stretch before I realized they had a sister.

It was glorious.

[Ion Kenshin]

Well, the good thing about babies on tv and in comics is, you can just ignore them and focus attention on something else. Like the kids on Everybody loves Raymond. To this day I still don't know their names. Cuz the show wasn't about them. Which is how you should handle superhero offspring in comics. Only put focus on them when you actually have something to say. Hopefully not villain who knows my secret ID kidnaps kid plot #31. :o
Their names were Michael and Geoffrey. But even on the show they refered to them as the twins always. :hehe:




<---watched too much TV

[Anubis]

I think he had a daughter too. I recall an episode with a dance she was going to or something.

[Ion Kenshin]

I think he had a daughter too. I recall an episode with a dance she was going to or something.
Yes he did ...her name was Ally. The three kids are actually related in real life

[Anubis]

Ah, I see. Learn something new everyday. Is she legal yet? And if so, is she hot?

[Ion Kenshin]

Ah, I see. Learn something new everyday. Is she legal yet? And if so, is she hot?
No and Hell NO. And im not just sayin that cuase I am gay. SHe just isnt a pretty girl. She may pull an Alyssa Milano and get smoking hot but I dunno

[Anubis]

This is where some creepy dude pops in and says "but she was always hot!" Everybody laughs. Snare on Drum. Curtains close.

[Blackman]

Maaaaaannnnn f*** Barry Allen

[Colossal Spoons]

Why do you hate him so?

[Blackman]

Lol I actually dont hate him but I far prefer Wally. And I hate that their beasically making a very good comic book death a joke

[Anubis]

Plus, that needs to be said on every page.

[NotFadeAway]

If they turn Wally into the ***** *****, I will be furious enough to boycott DC as long as Dan Didio is in charge.

This silver age love must stop.

[Tron Bonne]

If they turn Wally into the ***** *****, I will be furious enough to boycott DC as long as Dan Didio is in charge.

This silver age love must stop.

:huh:

[Anubis]

If you're gonna curse, its always helpful to put the first letter and last letter of each word so people get the gist of what you're talking about. F**k Nuggets. See?


Also, boycott? It's always the baby with the bath water with some people.

[Seibrix]

I never had a problem with Wally's kids. The problem was that people wrote pretty crappy stories around them. Waid's focus on the kids was too much, too fast. Peyer got rid of the super-fast aging threat, so they're fine now and they could've been the basis for better stories, only Wally's comic was canceled shortly after. It always amuses me how comic fans claim to love progress and character arcs but then point at marriages and kids as detriments to a character.

Well speaking from personal experience. I happen to know that having just 1 kid... just about interferes with everything I used to and currently do on a day to day basis. Even if Wally is the fastest man alive I would like to think his kids would affect him more than just being connected to him by a speed force leash. If they are going to use kids maybe they should ground it in reality a little bit. They throw all these scenarios at him in the span of 1 year then get rid of him for somebody else. I mean why did he even have kids? So I guess i have to agree that it is the writers fault.

Anyway I am still under the impression that they had something good with Bart being the flash. He had something he could aspire to be. That is the backbone of every legacy character.

[cerealkiller182]

Well speaking from personal experience. I happen to know that having just 1 kid... just about interferes with everything I used to and currently do on a day to day basis. Even if Wally is the fastest man alive I would like to think his kids would affect him more than just being connected to him by a speed force leash. If they are going to use kids maybe they should ground it in reality a little bit. They throw all these scenarios at him in the span of 1 year then get rid of him for somebody else. I mean why did he even have kids? So I guess i have to agree that it is the writers fault.

Anyway I am still under the impression that they had something good with Bart being the flash. He had something he could aspire to be. That is the backbone of every legacy character.

I wish more would make it though. They can only pine after the mantle for so long before that gets tiresome. Wally graduating was sweet, Bart graduating could have been sweet. Frankly, I just want to see Tempest graduate. Sword of Atlantis would have been way better with that than alternative reality AC.

[Seibrix]

yeah seeing tempest graduate would have been something nice actually. But, who wants to do that?

[yenaled]

I hope no-one is buying this **** still.

[BrianWilly]

I'm gonna glance through issue three to see if something exciting actually happens. If not, it's drozapped.

[TheCorpulent1]

I hope no-one is buying this **** still.
You know everyone still is. I dropped it after #1 and I suspect you probably did too, but most comic readers b**** about comics incessantly while still dropping cash for them.

[Tron Bonne]

I never even bought it from the start. I win?

[Darthphere]

I never started buying it. I mean, Johns plus the word Rebirth is not something I want. Fool me once and all that.

[TheCorpulent1]

I liked GL: Rebirth, actually. Until the Parallax retcon, it was a decent story.

[Darthphere]

I liked GL: Rebirth, actually. Until the Parallax retcon, it was a decent story.

No, the last 2 issues are almost unreadable due to ridiculousness. Batman getting sucker punched, Parallax retcon, then you have the whole explanation about Kyle being seemingly immune to Parallax, then Johns decides to **** over his own continuity. No thanks.

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, the part with Kyle was cool until the Sinestro Corps War f***ed it up.

[Darthphere]

Well, the part with Kyle was cool until the Sinestro Corps War f***ed it up.

You read Rebirth now and you're like ok, what the ****? For someone who loves continuity and old ****, he can't even follow his own continuity.

[yenaled]

I would just love for this Rebirth to fall on it's face and DC admit maybe the reading public didn't want a character that, for a majority of them, has been dead their whole life.

[TheCorpulent1]

A lovely pipe dream, but a pipe dream nonetheless. However many of us have ditched Flash: Rebirth, you know it's still selling somewhere in the top ten, probably near the top. Like it or not, the big 2 publishers know what they're talking about: events do sell.

[Karem-Knight]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/karemknight/poster76513798.jpg?t=1242668539

[BigBlue1055]

I never really understood the need to bring back Barry. Like someone said on the previous page of the thread, to me and a good portion of today's readers, Barry Allen has been dead almost my entire life. And now to have both of them running around just seems duplicative and stupid. I liked having 1 old-Flash, 1 adult-Flash, 1 kid-Flash...now there are 2 adult-Flashes and it just messes that all up.

[TheCorpulent1]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/karemknight/poster76513798.jpg?t=1242668539
Yes. Yes.

:up: :up: :up:

[yenaled]

Excellent work.

[Assassin]

A lovely pipe dream, but a pipe dream nonetheless. However many of us have ditched Flash: Rebirth, you know it's still selling somewhere in the top ten, probably near the top. Like it or not, the big 2 publishers know what they're talking about: events do sell.

I'm only buying it for my internet buddy Ethan Van Sciver. It's not that good, and i'm the biggest Johns fan on SHH

[Blackman]

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/Fannboi/Flash/motivatorb03d750c999433d844151033d6.jpg
http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/Fannboi/Flash/motivatorced87dd80ca29b18f45585214e.jpg
http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/Fannboi/Flash/motivator0c370977655158ab74e1701981.jpg

[The Geek Vault]

I'm not a huge DC fan so out curiosity when did Barry die, what year?

[Paradox1]

its funny how people trash Allen but he's the Flash all others are based on.except Garrick who is the patriarch

[Tron Bonne]

I'm not a huge DC fan so out curiosity when did Barry die, what year?

'85, and it was truly an awesome death, probably the most well done death in comic history

[Blackman]

Great death

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/Fannboi/crisis_8.jpg

Crappy/unnecessary resurrection

[The Geek Vault]

Wow, again not big into DC, how did they bring him back?

[Tron Bonne]

Wow, again not big into DC, how did they bring him back?

He ran out of a chair -_-

To be fair, though, we don't know the full details as of yet. In Rebirth we know that someone has possibly summoned him back

[Anubis]

Ha, oh man, i've started a f**king movement.

[Scarecrow_King]

a glorious movement.

[TheCorpulent1]

Ha, oh man, i've started a f**king movement.
As one of the dudes from the Roots said to some guy I met in Georgia at a concert I just missed: "You's a prophet!"

[Colossal Spoons]

Would Barry suck less if he stopped being a "Flash" and got some other nickname(assuming he gets over this Grim Reaper business)?

[TheCorpulent1]

There's nothing wrong with Barry, really. I just don't see a need for him to come back and what I've read of Rebirth was mediocre at best. Johns is at his worst when his inner fanboy starts showing, and Flash: Rebirth is basically his inner fanboy posing nude in the middle of Times Square.

[Colossal Spoons]

I hope a Bart fanboy(NOT Guggenheim, for the love of God!) writes a story about him soon. :o

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, he's back and in the present again, so the possibility's certainly there.

[Colossal Spoons]

Still kinda mad about how his return was handled. Would have totally missed it if not for somebody saying so in some thread. You'd think reading Flash, JSA, and TT would be enough to catch it :whatever:

[cerealkiller182]

Would Barry suck less if he stopped being a "Flash" and got some other nickname(assuming he gets over this Grim Reaper business)?

I think the best place for Barry would to retire and catch up on lost time with Iris.

[hippie_hunter]

I think the best place for Barry would to retire and catch up on lost time with Iris.
I dunno, with the returns of Oliver Queen, Hal Jordan, Ray Palmer, and Billy Batson to their respective mantles, it sorta makes sense to bring back Barry.

[hippie_hunter]

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/Fannboi/Flash/motivatorb03d750c999433d844151033d6.jpg
I like this one.

[Karem-Knight]

There's nothing wrong with Barry, really. I just don't see a need for him to come back and what I've read of Rebirth was mediocre at best. Johns is at his worst when his inner fanboy starts showing, and Flash: Rebirth is basically his inner fanboy posing nude in the middle of Times Square.

This is exactly how I feel, the return of Barry really doesn't help the Flash books at all, to me it makes it more complicated. I mean in OYL we had Bart taking over the mantle, didn't work, then Wally comes back but his kids have been sped up in age, didn't work either. So they decide they need to do a complete turn around of the Flash books; arguably the best time for the Flash books (arguably) had been the Post Crisis era with Wally West.

Now I could go on for ages, but these problems listed could have simply been solved with brining Bart back as they did in LO3W, and using some sort of "it was the speedforce" de ageing of Wally's kids and go to things how they were pre Infinite Crisis. Instead we end up with Barry's return in Final Crisis (as one of the few who actually enjoyed Final Crisis, Barry's return was one of the main things that irked me, as well as the Batman situation) and by far the main significant heroic death of DC Universe history, the death of Barry Allen, was discarded for an even more convoluted mess in the Flash titles with, not two, not three but FOUR Flashes. Honestly, how does DC expect new readers to get into one of their most favoured heroes?

[Colossal Spoons]

I dunno, with the returns of Oliver Queen, Hal Jordan, Ray Palmer, and Billy Batson to their respective mantles, it sorta makes sense to bring back Barry.

When did he get back? Last I saw, the wizard was *****in him out in JSA.

[The Geek Vault]

I think the whole point of flash: Rebirth though is that he's not SUPOSSED to be back. That he doesn't know why he's back.

[Anubis]

And yet, he's back.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/karemknight/poster76513798.jpg?t=1242668539

[Darthphere]

Back in Black.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yet he refuses to hit the sack. Too many criminals to catch 'cause that pussy ex-sidekick of his was too soft on 'em.

[UK_Stu]

I'm still glad he's back, though I haven't been overwhelmed by rebirth yet

[Spike_x1]

Just when I was going to drop Rebirth, I turn to the last page of #2 to find that Barry's the Black Flash. For a second, I was worried that I would have to buy the next one to find out what happens, but then I realized that I can save myself the cash and just keep an eye on this thread to see what happens next.

Having said that, I don't particularly dislike Barry himself, but like Hal Jordan, Barry was a better character when he was dead. He gave his successor something to aspire to and made the Flash mantle into the only one I can think of in comics that had been successfully passed onto the former sidekick. And now it's kind of hard to say that the torch had been passed from Barry to Wally when we see that Barry is still holding that torch. Now Barry's place in the DCU just seems redundant, and the tacked on tragic backstory is such an obvious gimmick to garner interest in the character that I'm honestly surprised that Johns stooped to that.

[Tron Bonne]

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/090520-diamond-sales-charts.html

I guess those who are dissatisfied or care at all about the situation are pretty much in the small minority here. And look what's right below it:waa:

[WompuM]

Hmm... Detective 853. Was that the Niel Gaiman issue?

[Anubis]

Well, the thing about the diamond list you have to remember is that that is ranked by the amount of issues stores buy. So, the only way to really know how it's selling is to go into your comic shop and see how many issues of Rebirth is just sitting there on the shelf like s**t on the street.

[BlackLantern]

Well, the thing about the diamond list you have to remember is that that is ranked by the amount of issues stores buy. So, the only way to really know how it's selling is to go into your comic shop and see how many issues of Rebirth is just sitting there on the shelf like s**t on the street.

None in the two shops I frequent...they are gone day of release and both stores have orders in for more copies

[Ion Kenshin]

Yea they sell out at my shop

[yenaled]

Honestly, they don't come close to selling out at my place, they keep heavily pushing it at the till when you go there.

[Ion Kenshin]

Flash Question: when was the whole concept of the speed force introduce before or after CoIE? Was it always known about etc?

[Tron Bonne]

Well, the thing about the diamond list you have to remember is that that is ranked by the amount of issues stores buy. So, the only way to really know how it's selling is to go into your comic shop and see how many issues of Rebirth is just sitting there on the shelf like s**t on the street.

Yeah, I know, but still number two on the charts is still something. I mean if the 2nd issue comes out lower it'll be a good sign, but that's still a lot of ordered issues for shops. Plus, I can't go by my shop, it's so small, he rarely sells out of 1st printings of anything. He even had a few Obama ASM covered issues for quite awhile until some Obama fanatics who were searching stumbled in a few weeks after it hit the stands

Hmm... Detective 853. Was that the Niel Gaiman issue?

Yes, it was

[TheCorpulent1]

Flash Question: when was the whole concept of the speed force introduce before or after CoIE? Was it always known about etc?
It was introduced during Mark Waid's run, long after CoIE. Mid '90s, I think. Max Mercury and Savitar were retconned into the past as always having known about the Speed Force, though, so the SF was effectively retconned into existing at least as far back as the late 1800s, since that's when Max Mercury first discovered it by accidentally bouncing off of it and shooting forward in time. The implication is that it's always been there but speedsters didn't know how to consciously access its power until recently.

[BrianWilly]

Thanks to Wally.

[Tron Bonne]

I wouldn't be surprised if they recton that by the end of Rebirth. Barry probably knew all along but he didn't tell anybody because it was too dangerous or something.

[Paradox1]

always thought the speed force was a great idea,Here's a question for ya maybe its been answered before or revealed in some other comic but can Supes tap into the Speed Force?

[Kenda Man]

always thought the speed force was a great idea,Here's a question for ya maybe its been answered before or revealed in some other comic but can Supes tap into the Speed Force?

Correct me if I'm wrong or it a better explaination is out there, but I would say no because he is NOT a speedster. I think it would also be safe to say Captain Marvel wouldn't be able to as well. Only speedsters, where there power is to run and move super fast, can tap into the speed force. Jesse Quick uses a formula( use to, but she does have spurts of speed here in there as Liberty Bell ) and ZOOM moves outside of the timeline (so he doesn't use the speed force). I don't know of a comic that discusses that Superman can not tap into the speedforce, I would assume Superman is fast due to the yellow sun reacting with his Kryptonian DNA.

I'm going to wait and see with Barry. He seems alright and I can't say "Oh they brought him back and he's a thousand times better than Wally" or "What kind of drugs were they on to replace Wally with Barry?" It's hard to compare Barry's return with 2 issues compared to the last 20 years of having Wally. I think there needs to be some time before writing off Barry so quickly. And knowing how far ahead Johns writes certain characters and events, he probably has 10 years worth of stories on Barry.

[Flash Facts]

No. If he could then he would be effected by Barry's death touch like all the other speedsters.

The Speed Force is to Speedsters what the Force is to Jed and I have a bad feeling that with all the emphasis Jhons is putting on Barry's scientific background that Barry will be introducing Midi-chlorians to the Speed Force.

[Jumpin' Jack]

Why does DC always mess good characters up? BArry Allen was one of the best chracters In the DCU. But OH NO! they always have to bring them back as bad guys.Take for example Jason Todd, He was great dead! but no. Hush brought him back YAY!....
Why cant DC jut leave the dead ones too rest ?

[yenaled]

Simple lack of creativity.

[Jumpin' Jack]

You're right.

[Ion Kenshin]

Thanks Corp

[TheCorpulent1]

I wouldn't be surprised if they recton that by the end of Rebirth. Barry probably knew all along but he didn't tell anybody because it was too dangerous or something.
I'm as quick to bash Johns' fanboyism as anyone, but I don't think this'll happen. We saw in Flash: Rebirth #1 that Barry was talking about the Speed Force as if it was completely new to him. He went to the SF when he died, so he understood it as a lightning storm where he lost his sense of self (which makes no sense with earlier portrayals, but that's another story), and now that he's back, he's only now learning about it as the source of super-speed, presumably from Wally, Bart, and Jay, who have extensive experience with it thanks to their own adventures and Max Mercury.

[Tron Bonne]

I'm as quick to bash Johns' fanboyism as anyone, but I don't think this'll happen. We saw in Flash: Rebirth #1 that Barry was talking about the Speed Force as if it was completely new to him. He went to the SF when he died, so he understood it as a lightning storm where he lost his sense of self (which makes no sense with earlier portrayals, but that's another story), and now that he's back, he's only now learning about it as the source of super-speed, presumably from Wally, Bart, and Jay, who have extensive experience with it thanks to their own adventures and Max Mercury.

I was just just kidding for the most part I doubt that will actually happen, but why not do it at this point? Why not:csad:

[Anthel]

I used to love flash as a kid. I have no idea what's going on in his world these days except that Geoff Johns retconned Barry Allen a little while back. What is a good jumping on point to get caught up on what's happening in Flash's universe these days?

[yenaled]

I guess Rebirth #1 is a good point.

But don't get it.

Get Final Crisis, Barry returns in that.

[Tron Bonne]

Rebirth is the point to get on since it's basically redoing the structure of the main Flash title. All you need to know about Barry coming back in Final Crisis is that should of never happened and that he ran out of one of the New God's chairs. I think Rebirth is suppose to give the full picture of his return anyway.

[Assassin]

maaaaaaaaan **** barry allen

[TheCorpulent1]

Oh snap, I didn't even notice we hadn't mentioned that on this page. Good looking out. :up:

[Anubis]

I was just about to do that.

[Hiddensymbols]

Something I found on the Batman Wiki:


DC Senior Vice President Dan DiDio comments, "Some stories... are so strong that undoing them would be a crime. The DCU would be a lesser place without Barry's sacrifice, or the crippling of Barbara at the hands of the Joker."


So ya. . . . so since he's back that sacrifice, well it don't mean squat. . . Nice

[yenaled]

DiDio is a soundbite cock.

[Tron Bonne]

Something I found on the Batman Wiki:


DC Senior Vice President Dan DiDio comments, "Some stories... are so strong that undoing them would be a crime. The DCU would be a lesser place without Barry's sacrifice, or the crippling of Barbara at the hands of the Joker."


So ya. . . . so since he's back that sacrifice, well it don't mean squat. . . Nice

That's hilarious, since he now says that ever since he took the EIC office one of his main intention was bringing back Hal and Barry. Flippity flop I suppose

[TheCorpulent1]

He's supposed to be infamous for changing his mind.

[BrianWilly]

No don't you see? He never changed his mind. His entire "main intention" was to turn the DCU into a lesser place all long. :dry:

It's just so urrrg sometimes. I actually do think DiDio is a decent enough editor, and has made a lot of logical decisions over the years. Putting his support behind Blue Beetle, for instance, and these new backup features we're getting, just off the top of my head. But when all is said and done and he eventually gets replaced -- maybe tomorrow, maybe next month, maybe next year, whenever -- he's not going to be remembered for those tiny appreciated acts. He's going to be remembered for a consistent, unbroken track record of ****ing over beloved characters. Maybe not Barry Allen in this case, but we can all recall them: one completely incomprehensible decision after another, utterly custom-designed to destroy a character down to their very cores, leaving the resulting extensive damage control to his writers. Over and ****ing over again throughout these past years.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yep, his blunders definitely outweigh his good decisions at this point, and it only seems to be getting worse the longer he holds that office.

[SouLeSS]

Professor Zoom, back in action

[Anubis]

But of course. Cuz now that Barry's back, you gotta bring back his nemesis. I mean, you really think he's gonna fight Wally's? Of course not. That would be ridiculous.......:o

[yenaled]

Yeah because Hunter Zolomon is such a weak character too.

[TheCorpulent1]

Rabble rabble, insert snarky comment about the spoiler here, rabble rabble.

I'm tired. :o

[Assassin]

Yeah because Hunter Zolomon is such a weak character too.

didnt he die, or froze or something in FC RR:

[yenaled]

Did Barry just kill Max and Johnny?

Maaaaaaaaan **** Barry Allen

didnt he die, or froze or something in FC RR:

Didn't he get Wheelchaired again?

[TheCorpulent1]

That would be awesome if he kept his super-speed.

[Prison Mike]

so what are some good Flash comics to read if you don't know anything about the character? I'd like to start reading more Flash and GL comics.

[TheCorpulent1]

If you're talking about Wally, pick up Mark Waid's Born to Run. It's Wally's de facto Year One story by arguably his best writer ever.

If you're talking about Barry, I can't help you.

[Prison Mike]

alright thanks Corp.

[flash13]

Read Flash: Ignition by Geoff Johns it's awesome

[Blackman]

YOu know honestly....I wouldnt mind if Barry came back if the writing was good. But the writing is so stupid, and contrast to stuff that happened before.
I mean mistake number one was bringing Barry back. His death was so influential why just get rid of it
Now that they did bring him back hes a whiny little *****

[Prison Mike]

I got Flash Rebirth issue 1. I'll see how that goes.

[Anubis]

Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn F**k Barry Allen.

[BrianWilly]

Flash: Rebirth #3
Someone on another forum had such an amazing, incredible theory about The Mystery in this book that I am going to be completely beyond disappointed if/when it turns out not to be the case.
Barry is the Black Flash because his emotional state is ****ed up because Zoom travelled back in time and framed his dad for murdering his mom. Barry has to save his parents to eliminate tragedy from the Flash family.Johns, I've never asked for much...wait, no, that's an enormous lie. But please. Please let this be so. If you read the earlier issues with this in mind, it's a completely ****ing masterstroke.

If not? Well...meh. Really, meh. Once again, not a lot actually happens in this issue. I'm actually a bit surprised at how much they managed to decompress it all. Really, when you think about it, in all these pages the only thing that actually happens is that Barry is held in observation, and then he runs away.

We'll see, I guess.

(Undecided out of 10)

[BLACKVULCAN]

Oh hell yeah baby!
loved Barry telling Superman. "you can't stop me!" Supes saying "well in the past we raced and some of those i won!" Flash then saying "those were for charity Clark" and leaving his ass in the dust! Too coolio!.. and Oh Baby ZOOM is back!!! I (*&^^%$#@(*& love ZOOM!! Just the greatest bestest foe ever!! That saying something considering Flash has some of coolest ass foes ever! Long Live ZOOM!! I didn't think i was going to dig Barry back but oh yeah i am digging it

[Prison Mike]

I read Flash Rebirth #1 last night and it was pretty good. As someone who has never read a Flash comic before, I understood pretty much everything. I didn't get lost or anything. Will this series relaunch the character after Rebirth is finished (like how GL was relaunched after Rebirth)?

[Cain]

Flash: Rebirth #3
Someone on another forum had such an amazing, incredible theory about The Mystery in this book that I am going to be completely beyond disappointed if/when it turns out not to be the case.
Johns, I've never asked for much...wait, no, that's an enormous lie. But please. Please let this be so. If you read the earlier issues with this in mind, it's a completely ****ing masterstroke.

If not? Well...meh. Really, meh. Once again, not a lot actually happens in this issue. I'm actually a bit surprised at how much they managed to decompress it all. Really, when you think about it, in all these pages the only thing that actually happens is that Barry is held in observation, and then he runs away.

We'll see, I guess.

(Undecided out of 10)

That is a pretty good theory. I had a feeling the black flash thing was due to how his emotional imbalance with how he felt about his mother's murder and how he maintained his daddy was innocent till the end. But seeing Professor Zoom return in the end like that made it seem even more possible that Thawne is behind that **** in the first place good and logical theory and like you I'd be dissapointed if Johns doesn't even go there.

[TheCorpulent1]

I read Flash Rebirth #1 last night and it was pretty good. As someone who has never read a Flash comic before, I understood pretty much everything. I didn't get lost or anything. Will this series relaunch the character after Rebirth is finished (like how GL was relaunched after Rebirth)?
Yeah, Barry's getting a new series after Rebirth.

[Prison Mike]

Yeah, Barry's getting a new series after Rebirth.

that's cool. I'll be sure to follow it. I picked up Rebirth issue 2 and 3 today. I'll read it later tonight.

[Flash Facts]

So now everyone likes Rebirth? :huh:

IMO so far its still pretty mediocre. Its been very predictable, the pacing seems off, I find all the fawning over Barry and his inner monologues stating what most Flash/Wally fans are probably thinking about his return irking, and some things just don't seem to make much sense at all.

[Blackman]

If the writing was good I wouldnt mind Barry coming back at all (I'm a Wally friend)
but I havent picked up issue 3 yet

[Tron Bonne]

So now everyone likes Rebirth? :huh:

IMO so far its still pretty mediocre. Its been very predictable, the pacing seems off, I find all the fawning over Barry and his inner monologues stating with most Flash/Wally fans are probably thinking about his return irking, and some things just don't seem to make much sense at all.

I don't think anyone is really flip flopping, but those of us who don't care for it are just kind of chilling because we've said all that needs be said. It doesn't matter anyway because after it's all said and done the majority people are probably going to love it, Johns will get his usual praise and they'll be saying it's a masterpiece of modern comic books. So, meh, what's the point, all we can do at this point is sit back and gently breath the Anubis war cry

[BrianWilly]

You'll note that most of the praise is coming from readers who, by their own admission, have never been Flash fans before.

I merely praised a potential theory about the story which may or may not end up being true.

[yenaled]

Hey guys I got an idea.

Lets bring Barry Allen back and make him totally different and grimdark!

It's the only way the kids will connect with him.

[TheCorpulent1]

So now everyone likes Rebirth? :huh:

IMO so far its still pretty mediocre. Its been very predictable, the pacing seems off, I find all the fawning over Barry and his inner monologues stating what most Flash/Wally fans are probably thinking about his return irking, and some things just don't seem to make much sense at all.
I stopped reading Flash: Rebirth after finding the first issue mediocre, so I don't really have much to say.

[Keyser Soze]

Flash: Rebirth #3
Someone on another forum had such an amazing, incredible theory about The Mystery in this book that I am going to be completely beyond disappointed if/when it turns out not to be the case.
Johns, I've never asked for much...wait, no, that's an enormous lie. But please. Please let this be so. If you read the earlier issues with this in mind, it's a completely ****ing masterstroke.

If not? Well...meh. Really, meh. Once again, not a lot actually happens in this issue. I'm actually a bit surprised at how much they managed to decompress it all. Really, when you think about it, in all these pages the only thing that actually happens is that Barry is held in observation, and then he runs away.

We'll see, I guess.

(Undecided out of 10)

Great theory, I hope it turns out to be true. I think there's a good chance something like this could happen.

Over on the Green Lantern Corps message boards there's an Ethan Van Sciver talkback thread, and someone made a post complaining about the Geoffcon in altering Barry's backstory. Van Sciver replied by saying don't rush to judgement on that, as all is not what it seems...

[Cain]

I read Flash all throughout the 90's and the early 00's, I think Rebirth is ok I don't think it's anything monumental but I think people are being too harsh on it just because it doesn't cater to their personal preferences. Just like with that other series from a few years back what was it called it again? oh yeah Green Lantern: Rebirth. I find it more interesting than reading about Wally and Linda's kids in the Flash version of The Incredibles every month even if Johns does get repetitive at times.

[Anubis]

Look man, f**k Barry Allen.

[Tron Bonne]

I read Flash all throughout the 90's and the early 00's, I think Rebirth is ok I don't think it's anything monumental but I think people are being too harsh on it just because it doesn't cater to their personal preferences. Just like with that other series from a few years back what was it called it again? oh yeah Green Lantern: Rebirth. I find it more interesting than reading about Wally and Linda's kids in the Flash version of The Incredibles every month even if Johns does get repetitive at times.

For me it's just more of a principle type of thing. I really stand by what I've said, good writing or horrible writing, I simply don't think there's any need or point to bring Barry Allen back and it does nothing but downgrade the character in my opinion. To me it would be like bringing Uncle Ben back as a regular supporting member in the Spidey comics and we all know how well that would go over. I know most people don't agree with that logic, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it

[BlackLantern]

I read Flash all throughout the 90's and the early 00's, I think Rebirth is ok I don't think it's anything monumental but I think people are being too harsh on it just because it doesn't cater to their personal preferences. Just like with that other series from a few years back what was it called it again? oh yeah Green Lantern: Rebirth. I find it more interesting than reading about Wally and Linda's kids in the Flash version of The Incredibles every month even if Johns does get repetitive at times.

Thank you jeebus...Im not the only one that hated those ****ing rugrats

[Anubis]

There are no bad characters, just bad writers. A Flash version of the Incredibles could have worked if you didn't have Mark "I hate married superheros" Waid setting up the status quo.

[BlackLantern]

There are no bad characters, just bad writers. A Flash version of the Incredibles could have worked if you didn't have Mark "I hate married superheros" Waid setting up the status quo.

and?? I don't like marriage....does that make me a bad person?

[Anubis]

Who said it made Waid a bad person? Projecting are we BL? It just means he shouldn't be writing married Superheros cuz, and this is the important part, he hates them.

[BrianWilly]

What fresh poo is this? Mark Waid? He wrote the best Fantastic Four run ever with, well, married people. Sure you're not thinking of something else?

[Anubis]

I'm talking about the guy who doesn't want Supes Married to Lois. The guy who probably sacraficed a baby to thank Joey Q for breaking up the Spidey Marriage. The guy who said he has no problem with Reed and Sue though. :o

[BrianWilly]

First I've heard of the Superman thing. And, um, also the baby sacrifice, but that's less important.

[yenaled]

The Wally family was fine under Peyer, Waid just didn't grasp it correctly.

[Tron Bonne]

I believe Waid was on the 'team' that was planning to recton the Superman and Lois marriage a while back but management decided against it. They were going to do something like Supes making a deal with Mr. Mxy to undo it. I remember reading this awhile back, not sure where, so I might be mistaken though. Morrison is the only other one I remember being on that, too

[BlackLantern]

I'm talking about the guy who doesn't want Supes Married to Lois. The guy who probably sacraficed a baby to thank Joey Q for breaking up the Spidey Marriage. The guy who said he has no problem with Reed and Sue though. :o

Reed and Sue started their run as a couple though so the conditions are a bit different...I'm not a fan of Superman and Lois being married, but I don't read Superman so I don't care all that much

putting it bluntly....the fanboys would throw a ****fit if Bruce Wayne got married, so why all of a sudden is the fandom all marriage happy??

[Tron Bonne]

putting it bluntly....the fanboys would throw a ****fit if Bruce Wayne got married, so why all of a sudden is the fandom all marriage happy??

It's a different situation I think. I mean Spidey and Supes have had those love interests for years and marriage just isn't that far fetched. Batman never really had that. He's always swapping between Catwoman or Talia or some other chick. Plus, the way Batman has been written in the last few years, Batman is the man, Bruce is the disguise. I doubt there's many women, or people for that matter, who could stand being permantly married with that.

It could work though, but I think throwing a *****fit the other way is just as irrational

[BrianWilly]

Google yields its treasures. (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=149066)
I’ve read a few speculations over the years about how we were going to use that proposal to end the Supeman/Lois Lane marriage. In fact that was actually something we decided we didn’t want to do. I remember Mark Waid and the guys and all of us sitting around thinking of ways to end the Superman marriage – and we talked about it for a long time, and we got to where we were talking about things like “memory molecules,” and we finally said, “This is ridiculous! The only way to do this is to keep the marriage and make it work!”

It was the only thing we could do with what I still think was a bad idea. The marriage damaged the dynamic of Superman comics quite severely, but if we broke up the relationship of these two great fictional lovers, Superman would immediately seem ineffectual and ultimately beaten by his foes, walking around for the rest of his life not knowing Lois was ever his wife or whatever.

So we opted to keep Lois Lane and the marriage intact. It’s kind of an interesting reflection of what recently happened in Spider-Man, where they did choose to magically unmarry the hero to predictable howls of protest. Then again, I actually think they’ll be able to make that one work if they just grit their teeth for a couple of years until the new status quo becomes accepted, so who knows?Well. There goes the rest of my idealism.

[Anubis]

First of all, Batman fanboys and comic fans are two different types of animal. Who knows how they would react.

Secondly, if, like Wally and Linda, Bat's had been together in a relationship with this chick for years. She knows all his s**t and he knows all her s**t, then i'm sure most comic fans wouldn't mind. But if you pull some bulls**t like they pulled with BP and Storm, where they retconned in a relationship and then, out of the blue, after having not even seen each other in years, up and get married? Then that would be hated and spit upon. And with good reason. It's not the marriage man, it's the how and the why.

Say what you want about Supes and Lois getting married cuz they got hitched in the show, they had a relationship for almost 70 years. It should have happened years before anyway.

[BrianWilly]

putting it bluntly....the fanboys would throw a ****fit if Bruce Wayne got married, so why all of a sudden is the fandom all marriage happy??You're asking...why something that might make people happy about one character would make the same people angry if it were applied to another, completely different character? Forreal?

[Tron Bonne]

Google yields its treasures.
Well. There goes the rest of my idealism.


I guess that was what I thinking of then. I was thinking that they were going to do it but the office upstairs basically shunted them on it.

[BlackLantern]

I'm not saying dissolve it....just ignore it....or beat it into the background....have 1 page of superman/lois domestic for every 20 pages of story

[Tron Bonne]

I'm not saying dissolve it....just ignore it....or beat it into the background....have 1 page of superman/lois domestic for every 20 pages of story

It's not as if you have to have every issue relate to the marriage in some way.

[BlackLantern]

It's not as if you have to have every issue relate to the marriage in some way.

but for some reason, it tends to gravitate that way....happened in Flash, happened in Spider-Man

[Tron Bonne]

That's true, but I think that's more the fault of the writers as opposed to the marriage itself. For some reason it seems like a lot of comic writers struggle so hard with separating the two. I mean you can't just ignore it, you have to acknowledge and you will have issues that are marriage heavy, but it doesn't have to be that way all the time.

[TheCorpulent1]

but for some reason, it tends to gravitate that way....happened in Flash, happened in Spider-Man
I didn't notice that in either of those comics except for short stretches. Spider-Man and MJ were married for decades and it formed the basis of some stories, but far, far more often than not, it was Spider-Man going off to fight random villain as the main plot of every issue. The only consistent references to the marriage were Peter worrying about whether he'd make it home to MJ or worrying about breaking dates with her or other soap opera things that the anti-marriage camp claimed to want anyway.

Wally and Linda? It was even less of a deal there. The marriage remained nicely contained in subplots except for the marriage itself, one arc with Kobra, and the basis of the whole Dark Flash thing.

[Spike_x1]

First of all, Batman fanboys and comic fans are two different types of animal. Who knows how they would react.

Secondly, if, like Wally and Linda, Bat's had been together in a relationship with this chick for years. She knows all his s**t and he knows all her s**t, then i'm sure most comic fans wouldn't mind. But if you pull some bulls**t like they pulled with BP and Storm, where they retconned in a relationship and then, out of the blue, after having not even seen each other in years, up and get married? Then that would be hated and spit upon. And with good reason. It's not the marriage man, it's the how and the why.

Say what you want about Supes and Lois getting married cuz they got hitched in the show, they had a relationship for almost 70 years. It should have happened years before anyway.:up:x100

[Kevin Smith]

I read Flash all throughout the 90's and the early 00's, I think Rebirth is ok I don't think it's anything monumental but I think people are being too harsh on it just because it doesn't cater to their personal preferences. Just like with that other series from a few years back what was it called it again? oh yeah Green Lantern: Rebirth. I find it more interesting than reading about Wally and Linda's kids in the Flash version of The Incredibles every month even if Johns does get repetitive at times.

Hell to the yeah about everything you just said. I am so glad I don't have to sit thru anymore of those stories with the speed brats. Rebirth will hopefully do some good for Wally too, real Wally has been gone for sometime, I kinda hope this is Wally's rebirthing as well. Ever since they gave him the secret identity thing, IMO, the real Wally has been gone. At least he gets his own costume now. Red and silver is the way to go, similar to Barry's pattern except no white circle behind the lightning bolt.

And I was looking up the reviews for GL: Rebirth back in the day, and boy, it's like deja vu! People were talking about that like Flash: Rebirth too.
I think Flash: Rebirth has been pretty good so far. I'm a longtime Flash fan, and I think sometimes my "superior knowledge" prevents me from enjoying certain books. If you're coming onto this as a new reader it's ****ing great. I let my younger bro, who thinks Flash is the shallow, walking punchline Barry/Wally hybrid he was on JL/JLU read it and he really liked it. I like it too, it's just if anything I feel that for such a fast character the first two issues were kinda slow starting off. I felt the third issue read too fast the first time I read thru it, the second time I read it I was overthinking everything, the third time I read it I left all preconceptions at the door and I really enjoyed it. I can't wait for #4 and for Barry to be himself again.

One minor bit tho, I appreciate the bow tie explanation in the second ish, it's works, but just because it's been explained does NOT mean that I want to see Barry wearing bow ties all the time now. I thought his outfit in Rebirth #1 was exactly what he should be wearing. Fits the forensics look. I don't want to see him wearing a bow tie, even if there is an explanation for it. I didn't mind Iris getting himn the red one in #3, mostly because of the "thought you'd look better in red" line, but I'd appreciate it if we got less of the bow tie thing. That was the style back in the late 50s/early 60s, and a lot of characters wore them, including Hal Jordan and Wally West. There's no need for it to become a sort of running (pardon the pun heheh) gag with Barry, IMO.

I keep waiting to see the explanation for the haircut. Barry is slow and "lazy" so he keeps his hair short so he doesn't have to waste much time on it, and it fits better under the cowl than Wally's male model do.

[Tron Bonne]

Hell to the yeah about everything you just said. I am so glad I don't have to sit thru anymore of those stories with the speed brats. Rebirth will hopefully do some good for Wally too, real Wally has been gone for sometime, I kinda hope this is Wally's rebirthing as well. Ever since they gave him the secret identity thing, IMO, the real Wally has been gone. At least he gets his own costume now. Red and silver is the way to go, similar to Barry's pattern except no white circle behind the lightning bolt.

I think that would be nice, but to be quite honest, I really doubt that's going to happen. Personally I didn't have a problem with Wally as he is, but after Rebirth I'd say Wally's character is probably in for a rough road. The best we can hope for is him becoming a separate superhero idenitity, but most likely he's either going to get minimized to point of nothing or he's going to be bumped around for ages until someone finds a good spot for him

[TheCorpulent1]

I expect him to be relegated to the Titans, subplots in the Flash series, and maybe an occasional one-shot or mini. I'll gladly buy the one-shots and minis, at least. I've accepted that the DC universe is changing into something that isn't necessarily for readers like me, so I'm not too broken up about it anymore. So long as Wally's still around--which I think he will be since Johns seems to like him despite his not being the Great and Wonderful Barry Allen--I'm cool.

[Tron Bonne]

I expect him to be relegated to the Titans, subplots in the Flash series, and maybe an occasional one-shot or mini. I'll gladly buy the one-shots and minis, at least. I've accepted that the DC universe is changing into something that isn't necessarily for readers like me, so I'm not too broken up about it anymore. So long as Wally's still around--which I think he will be since Johns seems to like him despite his not being the Great and Wonderful Barry Allen--I'm cool.

Isn't Titans awful, though:csad:

[TheCorpulent1]

It was when I tried it. I hear it still is.

[Prison Mike]

I read Rebirth issues 2 and 3 and I love this series now. I will keep reading this comic as far as I am concerned. btw, I'm a new Flash reader (I'm mostly a Marvel guy but decided to give DC a try).

[Kevin Smith]

I think that would be nice, but to be quite honest, I really doubt that's going to happen. Personally I didn't have a problem with Wally as he is, but after Rebirth I'd say Wally's character is probably in for a rough road. The best we can hope for is him becoming a separate superhero idenitity, but most likely he's either going to get minimized to point of nothing or he's going to be bumped around for ages until someone finds a good spot for him

Well, I can't imagine it being a much rougher road than theone he's been on the last few years. :(

But I think we'll see some good for Wally come out of Rebirth. I really do. His new suit will certainly be a new shot in the arm for him, to say the least. And he'll be more of his own man, IMO, and that's good. :D

[Kevin Smith]

I read Rebirth issues 2 and 3 and I love this series now. I will keep reading this comic as far as I am concerned. btw, I'm a new Flash reader (I'm mostly a Marvel guy but decided to give DC a try).

I'm with you, man. :D

I am definitely feeling it now. The problem before wa sthat I wasn't actually reading it, I was looking at the words and pictures and letting my preconceptions of what I thought it "should" be like prevent me from enjoying the story, much like many Trek fans did with the new Trek movie.

I just r-read Rogues' revenge and Flash: Rebirth #1-3 and let me tell you it is awesome. I love the story, I think it's great. I will be the first to come right out and say it, even though it isn't over yet, I already like it better than GL Rebirth. Leave your preconceptions and prejudices at the door and you will live the book. Stop comparing it to GL: Rebirth and you will enjoy it. GL: Rebirth was great but we aleady knew what had to happen to get Hal back in the suit if you know what I mean. We knew Parallax/Spectre had to go, so in a way it kinda had the storuy cut out. Not so with Flash: Rebirth. We were expecting Barry to be all fine and smiling about his return, when it's really the worst thing that could ever happen to him and an elaborate scheme against super speedsters everywhere. This is the stuff legends are made of, and Flash: Rebirth will be as beloved as GL: Rebirth when it's all said in done, IMHO. Look at some of the reviews of GL rebirth at the time and they're a lot like Flash: Rebirth, some even more cynical.

The people complaining that Barry's parents are dead and that the Rogues have vicious and violent bckgrounds need to shut the hell up. It's called good characterization and personality, character devlopment, so sit down and enjoy the ride. Things just got a whole lot more interesting. :)

[BrianWilly]

...Who are you trying to convince, us or yourself?

[Anubis]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn F**k Barry Allen!

[Anubis]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn F**k Barry Allen!


The Hype thought this was so true they posted it twice!

[Tron Bonne]

Well, I can't imagine it being a much rougher road than theone he's been on the last few years. :(

I didn't mean in that way, I meant more the way poor Kyle got the shaft in GL after Hal came back. If Corp is right, well, it'll still gonna suck since The Flash will be reduced to teamplay, one-shots and minis.

[yenaled]

The only reason anyone becomes a supehero in John's eyes is; MY PAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRENTS ARE DEEEEEEEEAAADD!!

[Scarecrow_King]

heh. I giggled at that.

[flash13]

In a battle along the outskirts of time, the secrets of the Speed Force have been revealed! The new archnemesis of those who ride the lightning is coming for Iris Allen. And the Barry Allen you knew is gone forever...or is he? What change does Wally West face? What destiny will Kid Flash choose? Prepare to meet a Flash Family that's both familiar and different...and get to the starting line for the next epic adventures of the Speed Force!



I'm guessing the September issue is when Wally will get his new costume.

[Tron Bonne]

I thought he already had his redesigned suit, or is he suppose to get a completely different suit altogether?

[TheCorpulent1]

Wally redesigned his suit in Rebirth already?

[sethcohen]

nope

[Scarecrow_King]

ya know, I wouldn't be surprised if its just a variation of that Walter West costume from a while back. I don't know anything about that story. but I thought the suit was pretty decent. he was from some alternate future or something?

[Kevin Smith]

...Who are you trying to convince, us or yourself?

LOL. Not trying to "convince" anyone, just getting something off my chest. :D

[TheCorpulent1]

ya know, I wouldn't be surprised if its just a variation of that Walter West costume from a while back. I don't know anything about that story. but I thought the suit was pretty decent. he was from some alternate future or something?
He's Wally from an alternate timeline where Linda dies.

[Kevin Smith]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn F**k Barry Allen!

Naw, DC already did that when they made his book about a supporting character and shoe-horned his sidekick into his costume. :hehe:


The Hype thought this was so true they posted it twice!

*coughs* troll *coughs*....

[Kevin Smith]

I didn't mean in that way, I meant more the way poor Kyle got the shaft in GL after Hal came back. If Corp is right, well, it'll still gonna suck since The Flash will be reduced to teamplay, one-shots and minis.

Eh, I think Wally and fam will get an All Flash book. They already started a #1 on that a couple years back...I don't think it will be as "bad" as Rayner.

[sethcohen]

i still think wally is going to sacrifice himself and take barrys place as black flash so barry can go on being the flash

[TheCorpulent1]

That'd be a nice, tidy way of pissing off every Wally fan ever.

[BlackLantern]

Johns did say that Wally would remain a superhero and adopt a new identity....plans changing??

[flash13]

He better not sacrifice himself I would be pissed!:cmad:

[TheCorpulent1]

Here's hoping we get a GLC-style non-Barry Flash book at some point. And that we don't have to wait almost a year after Rebirth to get it.

[Tron Bonne]

Eh, I think Wally and fam will get an All Flash book. They already started a #1 on that a couple years back...I don't think it will be as "bad" as Rayner.

We'll see, at this point I'm not expecting much from Wally's future except what Corp said.

[TheCorpulent1]

If Wally et al. do get a comic, I bet it'll be named something silly like "Speed Force: Re-energized!" I mean, what sort of "re" word can you apply to the Flashes to follow the GL: Rebirth/GLC: Recharge motif?

[Tron Bonne]

I guess that would be the best we can hope for really and could be pretty good. It's still pretty sad, though :(

[TheCorpulent1]

I'd actually be really happy with a non-Barry Flash series if it's as good as GLC is. It'd logically focus on all the other members of the Flash family--Wally, Jay, Bart, and whoever else is around--which is a big part of what I enjoyed about Waid's run on Wally's comic. Wally's kids would probably benefit from having more than just their parents to interact with, too.

[Tron Bonne]

Yeah, I would buy that, I'm sure it'd be great in the right hands.

[Scarecrow_King]

Flash: Rerun!

heh.

[WompuM]

Maybe not Wally sacrificing himself, but Jay?

Hhhhhhhheeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaggggggghhhhhhhhhhhh!! !!!!!!!
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t320/vossjz/heart.jpg

[BrianWilly]

Remind me again why we even think anyone is going to be sacrificed?

[Tron Bonne]

I think someone predicted it earlier because it seems like convenient way to shoo away Wally since Barry is back.

[WompuM]

And, I assume somebody close to Barry would die so if Johns crosses Blackest Night with the new Flash series, he'll have fodder for Barry.

[BrianWilly]

Hasn't he already done that? The new Flash series doesn't look like it'll start until after BL, anyway.

I mean, people, there's no way in hell he's going to sacrifice Wally. You know that. I'm aware that Johns is a barrel of "http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-doh.gif" a lot of the time, but c'mon.

[Blackman]

If he does....I have a present for him

not my wiener

[WompuM]

Is it your wiener?

[BrianWilly]

Good god, I was right about to ask that. I mean, the way he said it was just...

[Blackman]

....not my wiener

[Tron Bonne]

Hasn't he already done that? The new Flash series doesn't look like it'll start until after BL, anyway.

I mean, people, there's no way in hell he's going to sacrifice Wally. You know that. I'm aware that Johns is a barrel of "http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-doh.gif" a lot of the time, but c'mon.

BL?

I don't think it'll happen particularly and I don't think if they'll do it they'll kill him, but I think what someone said earlier was that Wally would replace Barry as the Black Flash somehow. Nice way to kind of get him out the way for a little while Barry flopped around.

[BrianWilly]

Yeah that's...not gonna happen, guys. :O

[kytrigger]

I thnk they should create a new ongoing where both Wally and Kyle team up. Their both friends and just have them both be "searching" for their new role in the DCU. It would give them both exposure and since they are constantly tavelling, allow them to interact with the rest of the DCU and rebuild their status amongst the readers.

[TheCorpulent1]

Kyle already has his role in the DCU: he and Guy are "specialist" Lanterns who outrank pretty much everyone in the Corps except for the Alphas, Kilowog, and Salaak.
Yeah that's...not gonna happen, guys. :O
Could happen to Jay, though. Then he'd really be old as death lolpun!

[BLACKVULCAN]

well i would just like to throw my 2 cents ( thats all i get paid at this*&^%$# Job)
As a cat who likes Both Barry and Wally. i always dug wally since he was Kid-flash. Kid Flash!!! Man That is one of the baddest names ever, but i grew up with Barry and was bummed when he bought the farm in Crisis.I saw Wally as another one of those emo heroes when he took his place, but He became even better( well the writing and character of Wally became even better that is). I was bummed when they said they were going to bring Barry back cause he died such a great death and Wally was the flash now. I dig rebirth for the nostalgia it brings as one who grew up with Barry( I mean how can you not dig Flash smoking Supes butt in a race) who would i prefer to see?? Wally as the Flash, but when you got &^%$# how many GLs??. I guess theres room for a bazillion flashes too.now i will just take my 2 cents and buy me some booze to drown my sorrows about this &^%$# job.Hehe

[Hush]

I just bought Human Race and it really was quite awesome, not gonna lie.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, I love that story. I'm gonna hold off on buying the trade, though.

[Hush]

Yeah my shop owner held it for me because he is the man! Oh and i must say the way Linda was brought back was ****ing sick.

[Kevin Smith]

Guys.....Wally isn't going anywehere, lol. Stop being so paranoid.

[Kevin Smith]

And I loved that moment in #3... "Those were for charity, Clark" BOOOOOOOOM!!!!

^ Epic.

[yenaled]

Guys.....Wally isn't going anywehere, lol. Stop being so paranoid.

Exactly. Wally is going nowhere fast. :(

[Tron Bonne]

Yeah that's...not gonna happen, guys. :O

I don't think it will either, but anyway it goes Wally is in, I think anyway, for a pretty big downgrade in some form or fashion. Like someone said earlier though, just got to accept the fact that DC is currently moving the way that just isn't for readers like myself

[Kevin Smith]

Exactly. Wally is going nowhere fast. :(

Like that's anything new. :whatever:

C'mon, dude, you know what I meant....he'll still be here. And as a Flash. Stop whining. Let Barry have some spot light. How many Wally stories did Barry fans have to endure? I don't think it's too much to ask for Wally fans to give Barry a shot. And even so, what's to complain about? You still have Wally, you still have him as Flash, and you can still read him. It's not like they killed/replaced him. Barry and Hal fans really took it on the chin when their characters were "replaced".

[flash13]

Barry can have the spotlight as long as Wally has his own book. Cause I'm not gonna buy Barry's book after Rebirth, the only reason I'm reading it is for Wally and Jay.

[Blackman]

I like the idea of separate books.

If Barry's is good I'll read it same thing with Wally's.

[Tron Bonne]

Like that's anything new. :whatever:

C'mon, dude, you know what I meant....he'll still be here. And as a Flash. Stop whining. Let Barry have some spot light. How many Wally stories did Barry fans have to endure? I don't think it's too much to ask for Wally fans to give Barry a shot. And even so, what's to complain about? You still have Wally, you still have him as Flash, and you can still read him. It's not like they killed/replaced him. Barry and Hal fans really took it on the chin when their characters were "replaced".

I can't speak for everyone, and I've said this about 50 times now, but to me it's not just a case of 'I like so and so better'. I don't think Barry Allen should come back. I don't ask a whole lot of my comics, I really don't. I have a very small list of characters who I believe should not come back for varying reasons. The usuals are on the list, Uncle Ben, The Waynes, etc. On the top of the list, numero uno, was Barry Allen. There's a lot of reasoning for this, but I've went into this already in this thread and don't feel like doing it again. And, frankly, I don't know why Barry fans would want him to come back either, but once again, I don't want to get into that again

And I think it's pretty naive to think that everything going to be the same for Wally. He may still be around, and he may still be a Flash, but he's going to get downgraded. It may not end up being like Kyle was when Hal first came back, but a downgrade is inevitable. Unless they really have two books, both titled Flash, but they won't

[Paradox1]

Maaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnn f$&k Wally West!!!

[Tron Bonne]

If you're going to do it, do it right. It's f**k, not f$&k.