Why is Dick Grayson NOT embraced?

[GregComicFan]

Hi,

I think Nolan once mentioned Dick Grayson would never appear in any of his Batman films, and I think Christian Bale once mentioned he didn't like the idea of Robin at all. Then, on a lot of message boards, I notice fans do not embrace the idea of Robin in Batman Begins 3 (the third film in the triology) at all. So I'm just wondering...

why?

I dont care about Robin. What I'm talking about here is just "Dick Grayson", not "Robin". Why not introduce Dick Grayson in Batman Begins 3?

It's ironic/funny how Nolan cites The Long Halloween as a major influence on his Batman storyline, yet its sequel Dark Victory, which introduces Dick Grayson, is never mentioned at all.

I think introducing Dick Grayson (not Robin, just Dick Grayson) opens a plethora of exciting and interesting character development ideas for Bruce Wayne's character. To me, Dick has always been a fascinating character for Batman to bounce off of, because the writer can suggest Bruce is 1) trying to rebuild his family by making a surrogate family (Alfred as Bruce's father, Dick as Bruce's son, etc.) 2) Bruce needs Dick Grayson in order to not go over the edge. Bruce grows darker and darker in the role of Batman, but when he's forced to become a role model (for Dick), he's forced to mend his dark ways and become a positive role model. So in a way, Dick Grayson (having a surrogate son) keeps Bruce sane. 3) The end of isolation - I always found it interesting how Bruce discovers by accident a little boy who is EXACTLY like him (both Bruce and Dick's parents were murdered when they were very young). So this is a wake up call to Bruce - he's not alone...little kids have their parents/loved ones stolen from them every day. Bruce realizes he's not special. And because of this, Bruce begins to believe other kids have ever right as he does to make the world a less crime-driven place. So in other words, Bruce decides to take proteges and build an army of crime fighters.

So, as you can see, I think there's a lot that Dick Grayson offers Bruce Wayne, as far as character development and story potential. Not to mention, Dick Grayson by himself is an interesting character, but he'd offer the supporting cast a lot too.

So why do you think Nolan seems dead set against ever introducing him in the franchise?

I dont care about ever seeing a little boy in red and green spandex fighting Gotham criminals. But what I don't get is why introducing just Dick Grayson seems so .... out of the question/out of the realm of possibility.

thoughts?

Greg

[killingyouguy]

I wouldn't mind Dick Grayson being introduced in the last Batman movie they ever do. Or second to last. But not before then and no Robin. Ever.

[Spider-Bat]

No Dick because Nolan doesn't care about the true Bat-Mythos that's why. Robin is cool when done the right way. The 60's show and green underwear are a thing of the past. But with no imagination and stupid things as a lame and weak excuse they just keep making crap.

[Vile]

It makes ZERO sense for Batman to bring a child into his war on crime. And I'm talking about Dick Grayson, not Robin.

Alfred is the only companion Bats needs.

[odiin]

Because there's no point in using him if they don't intend on using him fully?

[Ixion]

It's ironic/funny how Nolan cites The Long Halloween as a major influence on his Batman storyline, yet its sequel Dark Victory, which introduces Dick Grayson, is never mentioned at all.
I've heard Bale say Dark Victory is one of his favourites.

I think if you want to tell the story of Batman you have to introduce Robin at some point, hes as big a part of the Bat mythos as any character other than Bruce and his parents. If the concept of Robin didn't work he wouldn't have been around for nearly 70 years, and pretty much every incarnation of Batman in whatever medium has used Robin.

[Joker]

Because having a child involved with Bruce Wayne/Batman at all raises the question of why this guy would take him in at all. If he's still going to be Batman, and hide that aspect of himself from this kid, and not cut back at all, he would be smart enough to realize that is doing a dis-service to Dick. And bringing him in as a side kick is just insane and near child endangerment. I think that Robin has been made great in the comics, mostly since Tim Drake took over, but we must'nt forget that the character was brought into the comics for the sole purpose of making the character lighter, and more kid friendly. And that's something I don't want to see happen to the movies.

[wellsy]

I actually agree with the OP. Dick himself adds a lot to Bruce's character. Introducing Robin is something else (there was a suggestion on another thread that Robin act as a taunter, a disembodied voice, which relates to Batman's terrifying of Gotham's underworld). Dick, however, can easily work.

Hell, I could see him working out Bruce is Batman. Doesn't have to become Robin. But he can know about Bruce's other side, which gives even more character development to Bruce.

As for the original question... well, I'd have to say that given how pathetically poor past attempts have been to translate Robin into other media (TV in the 60's, I'm sure he also butchered a few comic stories, Batman Forever and Batman and Robin especially). Its a cringe factor, and they say that its impossible to do it right (which it isn't - nobody has done it right YET).

[TwilightPro101]

Second what the Joker said.

[Deaths Head II]

I really think Robin needs to appear. I know people are dead set against this, but I really can't consider this a definitive Batman series if they leave out a crucial aspect of the Batman character thats been around in the comics so long. Batman and Robin. Its the most iconic dual in comicdom. Even if Nolan is apprehensive about having a kid in bright colors helping Batman (and the suggestions I've heard about this makes the concept better and better in my eyes), the fact he would ignore the Dick Grayson character completely feels like a big spit in the eye.

Maybe I feel this way because I grew up on the TAS and liked Dick the best. But there a lot of good emotions and interesting drama he can start in the Batman character. Whether it be Jason with his death or Dick with him getting out of Batman's shadow and becoming Nightwing. Just that speech in Batman Forever where Bruce talks to Dick about revenge (one of the few good scenes in the film in my opinion) and waking up each night "trying to find another face" shows how much Dick Grayson's character could do for the series. And that was made under Joel Shumacher. Imagine what a darker director like Nolan could do with it.

[Abaddon]

Because having a child involved with Bruce Wayne/Batman at all raises the question of why this guy would take him in at all. If he's still going to be Batman, and hide that aspect of himself from this kid, and not cut back at all, he would be smart enough to realize that is doing a dis-service to Dick. And bringing him in as a side kick is just insane and near child endangerment. I think that Robin has been made great in the comics, mostly since Tim Drake took over, but we must'nt forget that the character was brought into the comics for the sole purpose of making the character lighter, and more kid friendly. And that's something I don't want to see happen to the movies.

I don't like the idea of Robin being in, but I would've been fine with Dick Grayson until this post.:o

[batman44]

I dunno. I like the character of Richard/ Robin and hope's that he'll be in another Batman movie soon....atleast the character Dick himself.

[Mr. Socko]

This is why Superman works alone.

[GregComicFan]

anybody know the exact timeline in the comics for at what point in Batman's career that he witnessed Dick's parent's murder at the circus? Was he Batman for two years? three years?

I think I remember hearing it was his second or third year on the job as Batman.

[batdude]

It used to be year three. I'm not sure if it still is though.

[Romero's Stache]

This is why Superman works alone.

Your in hell little man, and I am the devil :huh:

[Ceb-Man]

Robin will more than likely be introduced after Nolan does his three films and hands they keys over to a new director.

[Joker]

I'd much rather see Batgirl, Huntress, Azrael, and even f**kin Batwoman before they do Robin...they all make much more sense than Robin ever will. Have Batgirl be 17 or 18, wanting to go into law enforcement but her father forbids it, so to make a difference she models herself after Batman and starts fighting crime. I dont know much about Huntress' origins in the comics, so I cant really comment on how I'd do her.

Azrael would be the easiest, I think. Have the Order of St. Dumas be a spliter group from the league of shadows who disagreed with there methods. And by that, I mean that they would think the league of shadows werent doing enough, and werent hardcore enough. Have Azrael come from them, much as Bruce did, but instead of being inspired by personal tragedy, have him be a guy that they essentially brainwashed into doing there work for them. He gets sent to kill Batman, Batman snaps him out of it somehow, and bam, there's your Azrael. I'd much rather see him, a guy I'd consider to be Batman's equal if done right, than a sidekick.

[Katsuro]

Robin is a great character, and I really hope Nolan decides to use him eventually. An intro at the end of the third movie, setting him up for a fourth would be great.

And yes, I mean Robin. Not just Dick Grayson as some kid, but full blown Robin. I think Nolan could do for Robin what Burton and co. did for Batman, and that's show people he's not the same person you saw in the 60's TV show. Before B'89 got made, there was talk of basically redoing the Adam West stuff with Bill Murray. That almost happened. People thought Batman was lame and campy and would never be taken seriously, just like they think of Robin.

Robin doesn't HAVE to be campy, it just happens to be how he's been portrayed more popularly. The average person only knows of Chris o'Donell and Burt Ward, and has never read stuff like Dark Victory. It would be great for Nolan to show the general public how cool the character can be.

[Jochimus]

I'd much rather see Batgirl, Huntress, Azrael, and even f**kin Batwoman before they do Robin...they all make much more sense than Robin ever will. Have Batgirl be 17 or 18, wanting to go into law enforcement but her father forbids it, so to make a difference she models herself after Batman and starts fighting crime.

Heck, I'd even take Barbara Gordon in the Robin suit before Dick Grayson.

[Leenie]

Casual fans and moviegoers will not embrace Robin as much as the comic book fans. Most people like to see Batman fighting by himself. It would be interesting to watch a Batman story that does NOT involve any sidekicks for once. I want to see Batman ... Not Robin!

I think that Nolan is making the right choice by not bringing in Robin. Remember what happened with the last movie franchise when Robin was brought into the picture? Or are people that traumatized by those movies that they forgot? ;)

[Deaths Head II]

People bring up Robin ruining the old movie series, but I honestly found him to be one of the few things I liked about Batman Forever (which isn't saying much I know). To me, he just came in when the series started going bad, he didn't cause it. And by that line of logic, Two Face and Riddler shouldn't show up either. And don't say "its time characters like these were done well", because I can say the same exact thing about Robin. Lord knows hes a bigger character in the comics. Katsuro put it best I think. Robin could use a live action version that distances itself from the camp.

[mfbtl]

I think they shouldn't introduce Robin until they build a good franchise with the new Batman series. Ultimatley Robin is good for the Batman character because it developes more sub-plot. (i.e. when Jason gets killed)

If they plan on doing the whole "League of Shadows" thing then Azrael is a must b/c he becomes Batman.

[Mr. Wooden Alligator]

If we got a young Dick, we could see some of the parallels between his situation and Bruce's, like the Father's Day part of Dark Victory.

The most of "Robin" we should see is Dick going after who killed his parents, and his troubled reaction when he kills the guy...just like in Dark Victory.

[TwilightPro101]

That would be a dream come true.

[CConn]

A few reasons...

1). Robin - as portrayed by Dick Grayson - is very largely associated with gay stereotypes and jokes, thusly, peoples who aren't familiar with the comics, and Dick Grayson's actual personality, they assume him to be "gay" and little more.

2). It appears most Batman fans are terrified that a Batman movie even slightly resemble something for children or something that's anything but totally serious and painfully adult. Having a young teenager like Grayson in the film would/could make the film appear more for younger audiences.

3). Dick Grayson's inclusion into Joel Schumacher's movies further associate the character with ridiculousness and low-quality and campy stories.

Personally, I'm simply not a very big fan of Dick Grayson's personality at all. I'd have no problem with Robin in a film, but I'd much prefer it to be Tim Drake (a character I actually am quite a fan of).

[Two-Face]

If Nolan or another director does it TAS version like killer is Tony Zucco not Two-Face.

[The Kid]

Robin is a staple of the comics whether you people like it or not. I think he's an excellent character full of potential for drama between the Dark Knight and his young ward as he copes with being a superhero and father figure to someone who mirrors him. The beauty of the relationship is that batman tries to mold robin in his image but at the same time tries to heal him of the same darkness that consumed himself. It's really ****ed up ****.

[GregComicFan]

I also like the route that the DC Animated Universe took. From B:TAS, to The New Adventures of Batman, to Justice League/Unlimited, to Batman Beyond, the writers did a good job (especially in the finale "Epilogue") of showing that Bruce Wayne made a surrogate family (Alfred, Dick, Tim, Babs), but because they were not as obsessed as he was, he eventually pushes them all away and becomes/dies a very lonely, very great man.

So I think the tension between Bruce/Dick is interesting. He brings him in to re-create his family, but ends up pushing him away because Dick doesn't grow up to be as obsessed as he is.

[Sun_Down]

Why is Dick Grayson not embraced by this one director? Simple. Because we've only scratched the surface of Batman as a character. Think about it. Begins gave us a good insight into the why and how of Bruce becoming Batman. But we've yet to see really any of his Rogues, his detective skills, most of his gadgets or his general genius as a crimefighter. There's SO much Batman left to explore and people want to take time away from that for Robin? Seems kinda odd to me.

And even though I like Robin as a character, I've always thought that Batman was at his best when he was going it alone. Perhaps Nolan feels the same way.

[Cadetak4712]

The reasons why people dismiss Robin is because of his age, costume, and one-liners.

The age and costume issue can easily be fixed. Robin doesn't need to be a little kid he just needs to be young. I would put him at around 18 or so...which means he's not really an adult but not a really a child either...needing guidance but able to make decisions on his own.

They can update or do whatever they want with the costume to make it fit into Nolan's universe.

As for the humor part, it is needed to a degree but that doesn't mean it has to be campy. I imagine Robin to be somewhat humorous out of the costume but when he puts it on he would get serious.

Overall though at this time Robin wouldn't fit into Nolan's universe at this time.
Batman himself is still young and Robin isn't needed from a story perspective at this point.

We won't see Robin for the third movie but if there is a fourth I think that would be the time to introduce him. I would have the fourth movie take place a few years after the third anyways.

Robin is a important character and if this franchise goes past three movies he will have to be put in somewhere down the line...eventually people will just be asking "Where the hell is Robin?".

Its almost like not putting Mary Jane into a Spider-man franchise.

[wellsy]

We're talking Dick Grayson, not Robin.

Slight difference.

[MaskedManJRK]

A few reasons...

1). Robin - as portrayed by Dick Grayson - is very largely associated with gay stereotypes and jokes, thusly, peoples who aren't familiar with the comics, and Dick Grayson's actual personality, they assume him to be "gay" and little more.

Those immature little s**ts will already be making jokes with this franchise because the guy who's playing The Joker in it happened to play a gay cowboy once. Hell, the same s**ts would make fun of Christian Bale because of his role in Velvet Goldmine. Does that mean that neither should be in this franchise?

2). It appears most Batman fans are terrified that a Batman movie even slightly resemble something for children or something that's anything but totally serious and painfully adult. Having a young teenager like Grayson in the film would/could make the film appear more for younger audiences.

It's not like Robin would instantly make the movie a camp-fest. If the character is written well, and the story is written in a dark fashion, so will Robin.

3). Dick Grayson's inclusion into Joel Schumacher's movies further associate the character with ridiculousness and low-quality and campy stories.

I'm sorry, but that's just a s**t excuse.

Gordon was in the Schumacher movies, does that mean he shouldn't be in this?

Two-Face was in the Schumacher movies, does that mean he shouldn't be in this?

Hell, BATMAN was in the Schumacher movies, does that mean we shouldn't have a movie about him?

Excluding Robin because of those s**t movies pretty much eliminate every other character Batman has--including himself.

Personally, I'm simply not a very big fan of Dick Grayson's personality at all. I'd have no problem with Robin in a film, but I'd much prefer it to be Tim Drake (a character I actually am quite a fan of).

Then just give him Tim Drake's personality and call him Dick. Hell, Robin the Schumacher movies was pretty much an amalgamation of Dick and Jason Todd, anyway.

[griffolyon12]

Hi,

I think Nolan once mentioned Dick Grayson would never appear in any of his Batman films, and I think Christian Bale once mentioned he didn't like the idea of Robin at all. Then, on a lot of message boards, I notice fans do not embrace the idea of Robin in Batman Begins 3 (the third film in the triology) at all. So I'm just wondering...

why?

I dont care about Robin. What I'm talking about here is just "Dick Grayson", not "Robin". Why not introduce Dick Grayson in Batman Begins 3?

It's ironic/funny how Nolan cites The Long Halloween as a major influence on his Batman storyline, yet its sequel Dark Victory, which introduces Dick Grayson, is never mentioned at all.

I think introducing Dick Grayson (not Robin, just Dick Grayson) opens a plethora of exciting and interesting character development ideas for Bruce Wayne's character. To me, Dick has always been a fascinating character for Batman to bounce off of, because the writer can suggest Bruce is 1) trying to rebuild his family by making a surrogate family (Alfred as Bruce's father, Dick as Bruce's son, etc.) 2) Bruce needs Dick Grayson in order to not go over the edge. Bruce grows darker and darker in the role of Batman, but when he's forced to become a role model (for Dick), he's forced to mend his dark ways and become a positive role model. So in a way, Dick Grayson (having a surrogate son) keeps Bruce sane. 3) The end of isolation - I always found it interesting how Bruce discovers by accident a little boy who is EXACTLY like him (both Bruce and Dick's parents were murdered when they were very young). So this is a wake up call to Bruce - he's not alone...little kids have their parents/loved ones stolen from them every day. Bruce realizes he's not special. And because of this, Bruce begins to believe other kids have ever right as he does to make the world a less crime-driven place. So in other words, Bruce decides to take proteges and build an army of crime fighters.

So, as you can see, I think there's a lot that Dick Grayson offers Bruce Wayne, as far as character development and story potential. Not to mention, Dick Grayson by himself is an interesting character, but he'd offer the supporting cast a lot too.

So why do you think Nolan seems dead set against ever introducing him in the franchise?

I dont care about ever seeing a little boy in red and green spandex fighting Gotham criminals. But what I don't get is why introducing just Dick Grayson seems so .... out of the question/out of the realm of possibility.

thoughts?

GregI'd be all for it.I like the character of Dick/Robin if done right.I feel though Robin would never work in Nolan's realistic world,but Dick would.

[griffolyon12]

Whether most people want to believe it or not Robin is almost as big of a pop culture icon as Batman himself and leaving him out just doesn't make sense.Robin has been with Batman since Batman #1,that was the year 1940 and has endured.I think Robin if handled right could be really cool and add an extra emotional layer to the movies,and Nolan I feel could do it right which is why it makes me so upset that he probably wont include the character.I'm a Robin fan and just want to see the character done justice(or maybe even just Dick),and I want it to happen in a Batman film and not a Teen Titans movie.But I have a feeling that most Robin fans will just have to wait until the next series of films to see him.

[Gotham22]

I like to see Dick Grayson. maybe appear in the 4th film and in the 5th film becomes Robin if a 4th and 5th film does happen. Every time I watch BB I see that little boy I think Jason Todd.

[FCEEVIPER]

I like Grayson in the comics and in animation just fine, but not in films.

I feel he doesn't work on the silver screen. imo

[Lots o lafs]

i like the nightwing character, what about a spin off

[ThaMuzicAddict]

I don't mind him. He's in a lot of the major stories that everyone likes and I don't think he compromises them at all. The only times he's gay and suggestive is when he's written that way and that was mostly in the 60s. I don't find him too gay lately... except for his costume.

I think the movies could tell his story in a way that's new and credible. Not Nolan's movies, but eventually if they wanted to introduce him again I wouldn't object.

And regarding Nightwing, I hear they're planning a Teen Titan movie with Nightwing instead of Robin. ...don't know how serious they are about it though.

[Lots o lafs]

I don't mind him. He's in a lot of the major stories that everyone likes and I don't think he compromises them at all. The only times he's gay and suggestive is when he's written that way and that was mostly in the 60s. I don't find him too gay lately... except for his costume.

I think the movies could tell his story in a way that's new and credible. Not Nolan's movies, but eventually if they wanted to introduce him again I wouldn't object.

And regarding Nightwing, I hear they're planning a Teen Titan movie with Nightwing instead of Robin. ...don't know how serious they are about it though.

new costume agree but they need to get better stories

[MaskedManJRK]

I don't mind him. He's in a lot of the major stories that everyone likes and I don't think he compromises them at all. The only times he's gay and suggestive is when he's written that way and that was mostly in the 60s. I don't find him too gay lately... except for his costume.

I think the movies could tell his story in a way that's new and credible. Not Nolan's movies, but eventually if they wanted to introduce him again I wouldn't object.

And regarding Nightwing, I hear they're planning a Teen Titan movie with Nightwing instead of Robin. ...don't know how serious they are about it though.

What's "gay" about the costume? I mean, I can kind-of get the original pixie-boots and booty shorts look, but the current costume is almost exactly what I'd want to see in a movie.

[Lots o lafs]

What's "gay" about the costume? I mean, I can kind-of get the original pixie-boots and booty shorts look, but the current costume is almost exactly what I'd want to see in a movie.

i would like an all black costume for a movie and moves like dardevil spiderman and batman combined
jumpin off walls stuff like that
he would act like a mix of batman and punisher

[CConn]

i would like an all black costume for a movie and moves like dardevil spiderman and batman combined
jumpin off walls stuff like that
he would act like a mix of batman and punisher
So, in short, he'd be a totally different character.

Yeah, that makes a whole lotta sense. :up:

[CConn]

Those immature little s**ts will already be making jokes with this franchise because the guy who's playing The Joker in it happened to play a gay cowboy once. Hell, the same s**ts would make fun of Christian Bale because of his role in Velvet Goldmine. Does that mean that neither should be in this franchise?

It's not like Robin would instantly make the movie a camp-fest. If the character is written well, and the story is written in a dark fashion, so will Robin.

I'm sorry, but that's just a s**t excuse.

Gordon was in the Schumacher movies, does that mean he shouldn't be in this?

Two-Face was in the Schumacher movies, does that mean he shouldn't be in this?

Hell, BATMAN was in the Schumacher movies, does that mean we shouldn't have a movie about him?

Excluding Robin because of those s**t movies pretty much eliminate every other character Batman has--including himself.You misunderstand.

I don't believe the reasons I listed to be at all rational or well made points against the character, I was simply explaining the actual reasons why most people have a problem with Dick/Robin. And yes, those reasons are retarded.
Then just give him Tim Drake's personality and call him Dick. But then he'd be Dick not Tim. :o

Yeah, that doesn't seem to make sense, but still. :(
Hell, Robin the Schumacher movies was pretty much an amalgamation of Dick and Jason Todd, anyway.Dick was Dick in BF, Dick was Jason in B&R. :o

[Lots o lafs]

So, in short, he'd be a totally different character.

Yeah, that makes a whole lotta sense. :up:

no keep him kinda the same but what he does when he is nightwing is like batman,the comic character(nightwing), and punisher. but mostly like the comic charcter

[MaskedManJRK]

i would like an all black costume for a movie and moves like dardevil spiderman and batman combined
jumpin off walls stuff like that
he would act like a mix of batman and punisher

No offence, man, but that sounds really dumb. If you have to change the character that much, then you shouldn't be involved in it in the first place. :o

So, in short, he'd be a totally different character.

Yeah, that makes a whole lotta sense. :up:

Exactly, sir.

I am curious, however, if you have retorts to my post concerning your previous post. :o

[Lots o lafs]

No offence, man, but that sounds really dumb. If you have to change the character that much, then you shouldn't be involved in it in the first place.

what im sayin is he has to be bad*** and be in black

[CConn]

No offence, man, but that sounds really dumb. If you have to change the character that much, then you shouldn't be involved in it in the first place.

what im sayin is he has to be bad*** and be in black
Then you change the character.

Get out of town.

[CConn]

Exactly, sir.

I am curious, however, if you have retorts to my post concerning your previous post. :oI beat you to it, ha. :o

And no reply?! Bah. :mad:

[MaskedManJRK]

You misunderstand.

I don't believe the reasons I listed to be at all rational or well made points against the character, I was simply explaining the actual reasons why most people have a problem with Dick/Robin. And yes, those reasons are retarded.

Ah. I see what you mean.

But then he'd be Dick not Tim. :o

Yeah, that doesn't seem to make sense, but still. :(

No, it doesn't, but it's okay, I forgive ya. :yay:

Dick was Dick in BF, Dick was Jason in B&R. :o

But Jason wasn't gay.

...

Was he...?

:wow:

[MaskedManJRK]

I beat you to it, ha. :o

And no reply?! Bah. :mad:

Meh, I can live with second place. :yay:

[CConn]

No, it doesn't, but it's okay, I forgive ya. :yay: I mean, it's just, I associate the name Dick with, well, Dick. Even if he was exactly like Tim, he really wouldn't be Tim without the name attached to it.

I mean, could you stand Batman being named Wally West? Or Hal Jordon? No, he's Bruce Wayne.
But Jason wasn't gay.

...

Was he...?

:wow:Was anyone not gay in Schumacher's Gotham?

[Lots o lafs]

http://a175.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/4/m_c8b018942213b3742ea1f9964da83406.jpg



erik Sullivan for robin

[ThaMuzicAddict]

What's "gay" about the costume? I mean, I can kind-of get the original pixie-boots and booty shorts look, but the current costume is almost exactly what I'd want to see in a movie.
The newer Tim Drake costume is much better
http://www.dccomics.com/media/covers/4982_400x600.jpg
but for some reason Tim Sale and Jim Lee still give him the obnoxious classic look (Dark Victory, All Star Batman & Robin). How is anyone supposed to take that seriously?

[Joker]

but for some reason Tim Sale and Jim Lee still give him the obnoxious classic look (Dark Victory, All Star Batman & Robin). How is anyone supposed to take that seriously?

The reason might be those books both came out BEFORE the new Tim Drake costume debuted (In WWIII)? Also the fact that both of those stories you mentioned are about Dick Grayson when he's first starting his carreer as a superhero, not Tim Drake post-WWIII, so it wouldn't make any sense at all for him to have that costume even if it had been around when ASB&R started, and Dark Victory came out. You sir, are a f**king idiot.

[Sccmj23]

I really think Robin needs to appear. I know people are dead set against this, but I really can't consider this a definitive Batman series if they leave out a crucial aspect of the Batman character thats been around in the comics so long. Batman and Robin. Its the most iconic dual in comicdom. Even if Nolan is apprehensive about having a kid in bright colors helping Batman (and the suggestions I've heard about this makes the concept better and better in my eyes), the fact he would ignore the Dick Grayson character completely feels like a big spit in the eye.

Maybe I feel this way because I grew up on the TAS and liked Dick the best. But there a lot of good emotions and interesting drama he can start in the Batman character. Whether it be Jason with his death or Dick with him getting out of Batman's shadow and becoming Nightwing. Just that speech in Batman Forever where Bruce talks to Dick about revenge (one of the few good scenes in the film in my opinion) and waking up each night "trying to find another face" shows how much Dick Grayson's character could do for the series. And that was made under Joel Shumacher. Imagine what a darker director like Nolan could do with it.

Thats a really good point. I agree. However, I dont think there should be any Robin, Nightwing, or Dick Grayson references in TDK. Possibly in the next movie but only if its done the right way. Which as stated before, it hasnt been so far.

[CConn]

Thats a really good point. I agree. However, I dont think there should be any Robin, Nightwing, or Dick Grayson references in TDK. Possibly in the next movie but only if its done the right way. Which as stated before, it hasnt been so far.
So far? It's only been done once before.

That's like saying you're leery about Nolan iusing Two-Face because he hasn't been done right so far.

[Arkady Rossovich]

why?


Its simple,it could be guessed that Robin in the Batman films..is what killed the franchise in the mid 90`s.

[Joker]

So far? It's only been done once before.

That's like saying you're leery about Nolan iusing Two-Face because he hasn't been done right so far.

Robin's been done alot more than once in the movies, and he's sucked every time. All the way back to the serials from the 30's and 40's, Robin was the weakest link. I actually think Robin could work, just not the Dick Grayson incarnation of him. It works in the comics just fine, but I think Tim Drake would work much, much better on film. Even Jason Todd would work much better. A character who sort of forces himself on Batman, whether he approves or not. I just don't think a logical man like Bruce would take a child in, for reasons I stated earlier in the thread, unless it was the only option he felt he had. Tim would work, because he wouldnt be living with Bruce, and he could be going out doing all this dangerous crap whether Batman liked it or not, so Batman decided to train him so there's less of a chance he'll get killed.

[MGilhuly14]

Trying to guess which year BM took in Robin according to cimics is worthless because the comic timeline is all screwed up. According to the comics Batman takes him in when he's around 10-12 (Dark Victory). But then the BM:Year Three arc takes place after Dick becoming Nightwing and Jason's Death. So it makes no sense whatsoever.

I'd be ok with Robin if it was done right. Maybe Bruce takes Dick in but once he tries to become Robin and help Bruce out he is sent away, which I think would lead well into the Teen Titan movie with him becoming Nightwing. He doesn't have to be young like 10 or 11. He is a part of a circus act so he can't be that young. I'd be fine if he was as old as 15 or 16.

[Lots o lafs]

ok robin lets get back on topic "dunna duna dunna duna Batman!!!!!"

[GregComicFan]

Remember, this topic is "Why is Dick Grayson NOT embraced?"

this is not about Robin, just Dick Grayson.

Bruce Wayne can meet and adopt Dick and not ever train him to become Robin in Batman Begins 3

[Timstuff]

Personally, while I think Robin was okay in Batman TAS, I think he should stay out of the movies. I look at Robin as being a relic from an age long gone, where it was a rule that Superheroes had to have teenage sidekicks. And yet for some reason, Batman has clung onto his sidekick for a lot longer than the other superheroes. Really though, Batman has always been at his coolest when he's alone. Bringing in a sidekick completely cramps his style. I really feel like loner Batman and the Batman who flies with Robin are almost like two different characters.

[gadgetfusion]

Yeah, Batman has had way too many sidekicks. Robin, Batgirl, Batwoman, Bat-Mite, and Ace the Bat-Hound. Gotta love the 50s.

[zarana]

He's portrayed as whiny and annoying. But they can always redeem him but its better having him a separate franchise. It will do him justice and his own personal background and crusade can get people to side with him and view him as their own hero.

[Deaths Head II]

Personally, while I think Robin was okay in Batman TAS, I think he should stay out of the movies. I look at Robin as being a relic from an age long gone, where it was a rule that Superheroes had to have teenage sidekicks. And yet for some reason, Batman has clung onto his sidekick for a lot longer than the other superheroes. Really though, Batman has always been at his coolest when he's alone. Bringing in a sidekick completely cramps his style. I really feel like loner Batman and the Batman who flies with Robin are almost like two different characters.

Maybe in the 50s, not so much in modern times. Most of the time I read a newer Batman comic where he's working with a partner, he pretty much acts the same, the only difference being is that he brings that attitude onto other characters. Most people say Robin will brighten Batman too much, but I don't see it. Whenever Batman works with a partner in the comics, he seems too dark in comparison with who he is working with. While he may work with other people, he still keeps that distant attitude intact. Pretty much everytime he works with someone, one main emphasis is how he's too hard to work with because of how overbearing, militaristic, and moody he is. The days of Batman being degraded into a campy, one-liner throwing character whenever Robin shows up are long gone in the comics. It feels more like Batman is still Batman, he doesn't change his way of doing things just because of a tag along. The only real difference is that it shows another aspect of Batman in his interactions with other characters while "on the job".

[diabolik]

Everyone is wrong.

Dick Grayson, should be embraced and should be Robin in a new film.

Past Robin incarnations have been terrible...as have been ceratin Bat-films..this is a new series with new life...they will do Robin just as well as they have Bruce Wayne, Gordon, etc....

Dick Grayson /Robin is as important to the Batman mythos and comic book as anything else...if you think otherwise...your not legit lol.

Robin has been portayed VERY well in comics and Animation...no reason we cant get a good actor and director to do the same.

The Father/Son dynamic is great. Robin is the redemtion for Bruce/Batman as well as his potential legacy/successor.

Dick Grayson/Robin give Bruce Wayne a major oppurtunity to go beyond just a crazed vigilante...he can become a father. He can help lead his succesor...he helsp him avoid the pitfalls he did...he does what Alfred did for him...its great storytelling.

Robin has always been the counter balance to Batman. He reminds Bruce to have funto not go to the dark side...

Theres more drama. Fearing for Robin and hoping he succeeds is great stuff.

At the heart of it...especially within the Batman Mythos and within the DC mythos as well...Dick Grayson..is Batman/Bruce Waynes greatest acheivment.

He's better then Batman at everything. Hes a more natural athlete/fighter/problem solving....etc etc...

[GL1]

Everyone is wrong

So... if I agree with you... does that make me wrong too?

But yeah, I have to sign off on just about all of the statements above me. There's a lot of ignorance when it comes to Robin. And just fake reasons period. If Bruce is supposed to be alone, how come he needs Alfred and Lucious' help just to survive. Doesn't sound very alone to me.

[Rorschach2012]

I hope Dick Grayson is introduced

[Changeling]

So do i

[ReallyCoolGuy]

All the way back to the serials from the 30's and 40's, Robin was the weakest link.

Haha... the serials Robin is my favorite incarnation of Robin onto the screen... he was athletic, young, naive... and had a cool haircut

[ReallyCoolGuy]

They should throw in a little Easter egg like Bruce going to the circus to see the Flying Graysons... or something like that. Maybe even meet the kid just to give him a little screen time. NO ROBIN, of course.

Isn't The Dark Knight supposed to take place in a circus in the final act? They could have a poster in the background somewhere that mentions them.

[Dvhyzs]

They should throw in a little Easter egg like Bruce going to the circus to see the Flying Graysons... or something like that. Maybe even meet the kid just to give him a little screen time. NO ROBIN, of course.

Isn't The Dark Knight supposed to take place in a circus in the final act? They could have a poster in the background somewhere that mentions them.

It's not confirmed, just a rumor. Although that would be the best approach to introduce him besides just showing a Flying Graysons poster.

[dmbdmbdmb]

they will reintroduce robin after the next two movies and it can be done like introduce him at twelve first and then age him as the movie goes on and show bruce training him like batman begins and then at twenty he bcomes robin and you can call the movie batman and robin begin.

[ReallyCoolGuy]

they will reintroduce robin after the next two movies ...

No, they won't.

[chief103182]

No, they won't.

Yeah, didn't Nolan already say he won't make an appearance?

[wellsy]

they will reintroduce robin after the next two movies and it can be done like introduce him at twelve first and then age him as the movie goes on and show bruce training him like batman begins and then at twenty he bcomes robin and you can call the movie batman and robin begin.
At twenty, he can't be Robin. He'd be Nightwing.

Maybe suiting up at 16 after four years of training. I can't see it working with him suiting up at 20. It'd be Batman Forever all over again.

A good way to learn is defined as follows:

If you want to teach a child to swim, you throw them into the ocean.

I think thats how Bruce should train Dick. Let him see the crime happening. Give him every reason not to fight it. Its brutal. Dark. Etc. Dick still wants this, so Bruce starts to train him. But Bruce is always trying to force Dick to give up, pushing him very hard, etc.

Y'know, Batman wants to shoulder the burden himself, for the most part. It would be an interesting relationship to explore.

[Darkness Falls]

[quote=Vile;11767498]It makes ZERO sense for Batman to bring a child into his war on crime.


Plus they would tone it down because bruce is somewhat of a rolemodel for robin


Please leave the bat solo

[ManofmyWord]

My only problem with Robin is that BB spent so much time setting up the fact that Batman's advantage is fear-They don't know what he is. They can TELL Robin is a person.

Robin=No Realism.