The Realism Debate thread

[CaptainClown]

And people wonder why the world can't get along. Batman fans can't even agree without biting each others throats.

[Mr. Socko]

Oh no, there's no possible way anyone could ever understand that. Not even Nolan and Goyer :rolleyes:

[Figs]

Still, no reason people can't suspend their belief so that The Joker can be white-skinned.


I never said they couldn't, I myself am hoping he is white skinned. Was saying that for the Tumbler just like the microwave emitter you need a little suspension of belief.

[Bright Knight]

Sounds like a lot of you do since you totally missed my points and all started mocking me for saying what is common sense that you all didn't get.


We're all wrong and you're right...

Gotcha.

[Figs]

Is there a subtle bone in your body? I think everyone implicitly gets that it's a bridging vehicle and Fox didn't craft the Tumbler with his own hands, we're debating the mechanics and logic of it. If it pains you stay out of it


There's nothing painful about it. I just got irritated about the fact how some couldn't understand why he couldn't just fire the missles from a standard driver side seat. I already gave an example earlier about being in your car, it's the fact that your not centered. I think someone else also mentioned that.

[CaptainClown]

and this is why I don't enter politics

[Figs]

lol wut


Your link of truth was a link to something about a new movie with Patrick Swayze.

[Figs]

and this is why I don't enter politics


So to have a difference in opinion you need to be in politics?

[Bright Knight]

we're debating the mechanics and logic of it.


Anyway...

I think your diagram... ¦¦--¦¦ //--// ==--==

Best describes how the tumbler can unfold. I'm not an engineer, but I do have an interest in engineering, and i can't see how the Pod could come out any other way? Especially if they've designed and built a tumbler which actually does eject a pod?

[CaptainClown]

because its a huge debate where nothing gets done. Rather then putting aside differences to see something greater... in this case. THE DARK KNIGHT

[Figs]

because its a huge debate where nothing gets done. Rather then putting aside differences to see something greater... in this case. THE DARK KNIGHT


The title of this thread is Realism Debate. A debate is in fact an argument of sorts.

[Bright Knight]

There's nothing painful about it. I just got irritated about the fact how some couldn't understand why he couldn't just fire the missles from a standard driver side seat. I already gave an example earlier about being in your car, it's the fact that your not centered. I think someone else also mentioned that.


Why did you get irritated at someone asking why couldn't he just fire missiles from the driver's seat? Is it any more unbelievable than him firing them from his stomach?

Why not just build the driver's seat in the centre of the vehicle?

You're the one going on about the fact that this is a comic book film! suspension of belief! Hoisted by your own petard, etc.

[CaptainClown]

No its turning into a sort of yelling and declaring that individuals are stupid for not seeing their point of view.

[sasquatchs]

Anyway...

I think your diagram... ¦¦--¦¦ //--// ==--==

Best describes how the tumbler can unfold. I'm not an engineer, but I do have an interest in engineering, and i can't see how the Pod could come out any other way? Especially if they've designed and built a tumbler which actually does eject a pod?

The fun has been sapped :csad: To get back to it,

I missed the bit where it goes

|| 8 || .... || m ||

where 8 is Batman


Its complex...

[Bright Knight]

The fun has been sapped :csad: To get back to it,

I missed the bit where it goes

|| 8 || .... || m ||

where 8 is Batman


Its complex...


Yea I give up, But I'm pretty sure that it's something to do with that?

It's gonna be transformerish i'd say. But why else would there be notches in the wheel frames that would allow the wheels to lock at 90 degrees?

As I said, I give up!

[Mr. Socko]

There's nothing painful about it. I just got irritated about the fact how some couldn't understand why he couldn't just fire the missles from a standard driver side seat. I already gave an example earlier about being in your car, it's the fact that your not centered. I think someone else also mentioned that.


As others have said and as you have said...suspension of disbelief.

I just didn't like him going under on his stomach. IMO It would have been better to just have a tracking monitor and signal for the missile shooting instead of having to go under the thing. I just didn't like it.

[sasquatchs]

If it turns out to be his escape route it's vindicated and then some. Better than the old blow the roof off and eject. Although come to think of it that could be cool with Batman's abilities

[Baba Ghanoush]

It didn't bother me in the slightest that he had to go into that position to fire missles, you all want to know why?!?!? If you paid attention to details, which im sure you did, it's A BRIDGING VEHICLE. Since it's to be used in war/combat areas it is smart to give it weapons but that is not it's primary function.

To me it was a seperate screen for precision aiming since it wasn't built as a top of the line weapon like a tank. I don't see how you can aim well in that thing when your in the driver seat. Imagine being in your car and it could fire missles from the front, I guarantee your aim and accuracy would suck trying to shoot a centered target from that perspective.

Not to mention it's a ****ing movie lol based on a comic. Give it a rest. On another note, it still has not been proven as fact that the damn "pod" will be coming out of the Tumbler.

If fighter pilots can aim and fire missiles and drop laser guided bombs from thousands of feet in the air on targets no bigger than a corner of a room in a building while staying in a seated upright position, there should be no reason why Batman would have to go to the floorboard to engage a weapons system in a ground based vehicle.

Yes, its a comic-book movie. Unfortunately, you show the weakness in your argument when you start out with a reason supporting your position and then switch to the "but its just a movie" premise.

[Baba Ghanoush]

My question is this. All of the equipment Bruce "borrowed" from Wayne Enterprises: do you think they're still in the inventory files?

I mean, I'd assume Wayne Enterprises would do inventory of its stored products, to make sure nobody is stealing ****. How's Fox supposed to explain that an expensive military vehicle prototype is just missing, when it's still in the files?

It would have been cool to see Bruce go through the Wayne Enterprises computer files and delete the data on all of the equipment he took. Nobody would have proof that they existed in the first place if they're completely erased from the computer bank.

Yes, they would definitely be inventoried.

But these are dead projects. So you have to ask yourself, who would go looking for these items? For this reason, they are not going to be missed at least temporarily.

Like you said, I'm sure Wayne at some point deleted all the files and destroyed any trace of their existence, much the same way Earle tried to do with the ME.

[fcrowelle06]

Okay guess it's time for me to put my two cents in: Fact of the matter is I love Nolan's realism, I think's it's the most accurate to batman because he basically set in realistic settings dealing more with the mind than special powers, but when it comes to the villains, even though they're realistically crazy they're still fantastical, The Joker has bleached skin from chemicals, Laughs hysterically, and blows up children, Catwoman scales buildings, Two-Face is dementally two-sided, Penguin uses umbrellas for shooting (still ingenius by the way) scarecrow is man obsessed with fear toxins to get straight to the fear of people's soul, Ventriloquist, Freeze, Riddler, Ras Al Ghul, Bane, Ivy, all of them are fantasitical but not too fantastical to be in Nolan's world because of their ORIGIN, they come by realistic ways, of what you think could happen if it did in our world, that' why I would never rule anything out from Batman in Nolan's world even though he might do it himself

[fcrowelle06]

Your all welcome to disagree, but I just don't see a reason for any of these people not being able to be there even Killer Croc or Hush

[Bright Knight]

Well with penguin the umbrella thing is very easily solved...

Mobsters used to hide machine guns in umbrellas... The penguin hides his machine gun in his umbrella, and when he needs to, he puts his hand inside his closed umbrella and shoots. He could be a posh english arms dealer... NO NEED for the top hat. But he could be camp I suppose? Paul Bethany?

[fcrowelle06]

I would settle more for Bob Hoskins as Penguin

[Bright Knight]

I would settle more for Bob Hoskins as Penguin


But is that because he's short and fat like previous incarnations of the joker?

[fcrowelle06]

But is that because he's short and fat like previous incarnations of the joker?


you mean previous incarnations of the Penguin?...if that's what you mean then yes, but I wouldn't him to be too close to the animal aspects of it like in Batman Returns more like the ruthless english gangster who's effectively cold, calculating, and brilliant with a taste for unsual killings, like the umbrella's for different weapons

[fcrowelle06]

more closely related to B:TAS when they revamped it and the penguin had all of his shady business out of the spotlight when he owned that ritzy club that batman kept breaking into convinced that he was still a criminal

[Bright Knight]

you mean previous incarnations of the Penguin?...if that's what you mean then yes, but I wouldn't him to be too close to the animal aspects of it like in Batman Returns more like the ruthless english gangster who's effectively cold, calculating, and brilliant with a taste for unsual killings, like the umbrella's for different weapons

Lol... Yea, I maent the Penguin! Have Joker on the brain!

I don't like the umbrella idea, save for him hiding weapons in umbrellas it's a little kitsch.

[fcrowelle06]

no, that's what I mean, unusual hiding of weapons in his umbrella's , it's his trademark, makes him recognizable and feared in the criminal underworld, I mean let's take it from this angle: The Penguin known throughout Gotham's shady parts as a ruthless brilliant gangster who has all of his business dealings under the weather, but he brings his umbrella to each one...fear of the unexpected, is the umbrella real, or a weapon used to kill you if you cross him, it's just another tiny little aspect for character, I don't know

[fcrowelle06]

I mean on paper it looks kinca kitschy but it could be done well, depending on who directs it and writes his introduction

[terry78]

So no umbrellas releasing deadly gas.

[fcrowelle06]

wouldn't mind the deadly gas from the umbrella, but everyone seems to be using gas lately, no stick with the guns and swords in the umbrella

[gwynplaine]

I never thought the Penguin (little fat man with umbrellas)or even the Riddler (Dude who asks riddles) to be very scary. It'd would probably require a director like Nolan to, in my opinion, make them pose a real threat to Batman.

[Mr. Socko]

Well with penguin the umbrella thing is very easily solved...

Mobsters used to hide machine guns in umbrellas... The penguin hides his machine gun in his umbrella, and when he needs to, he puts his hand inside his closed umbrella and shoots. He could be a posh english arms dealer... NO NEED for the top hat. But he could be camp I suppose? Paul Bethany?


I find it hysterical there is a need to explain everything. Seriously, if Penguin was ever in a Nolan Bat-film, do we NEED to know how his umbrella shoots bullets? And Penguin always wears a top hat and monocle, it's his style. No reason to get rid of things like that because people think it's too campy or won't fit in "Nolan's gritty realism."

I never thought the Penguin (little fat man with umbrellas)or even the Riddler (Dude who asks riddles) to be very scary. It'd would probably require a director like Nolan to, in my opinion, make them pose a real threat to Batman.

The Riddler is not suppose to be scary, but he does pose a threat. He's a vastly intelligent mastermind who intentionally leaves behind clues(riddles) that usually are so puzzling to answer that by the time the cops can figure out what a certain riddle means, Riddler has already robbed a big place or committed another murder. The Penguin is just a corrupt gangster, he's about as much of a threat as The Roman, I'd say. It'd be a cool idea to have him run a club and be an English arms dealer.

[fcrowelle06]

My thoughts exactly Socko, I'm still wondering on the Harley Quinn, the costume has to stay, if they can keep the joker costume, then the harley quinn costume can stay, but probably the hardest to bring across believably in Nolan's world are IVy, Freeze, and Croc

[Mr. Socko]

I don't think Nolan would even want to use Ivy or Freeze! :wow:

[StorminNorman]

Did somebody just suggest Paul Bettany for the Penguin?

Much worse, did someone call him Paul Bethany?

[fcrowelle06]

What's wrong with IVy and Freeze? they can be put in Nolan's world (I'm starting to hate that phrase)

[Mr. Socko]

They could, I don't mean they couldn't fit into his world, I just highly doubt Nolan would use them. Batman 3 is going to be a round up of TDK, meaning it will still have Two Face and Joker as the villains.

Penguin and Riddler can both work as minor villains that could certainly fit into Batman 3 despite already having Face and Joker as villains. Freeze, on the other hand, would require a lot of screentime to fully get him right. And add in Ivy, that would just be too much.

The only possible way Ivy and Freeze would ever make it into a Nolan bat-film is if he's going to go past a trilogy which I doubt.

[itsthebatman]

Did somebody just suggest Paul Bettany for the Penguin?

Much worse, did someone call him Paul Bethany?
I was wondering when you arrive to blow your gasket about that. He'd look lovely in a wee tux.

[Figs]

My thoughts exactly Socko, I'm still wondering on the Harley Quinn, the costume has to stay, if they can keep the joker costume, then the harley quinn costume can stay, but probably the hardest to bring across believably in Nolan's world are IVy, Freeze, and Croc


Don't forget Clayface.

[Mr. Socko]

So do you guys think Nolan and his realistic world/plausible take on Batman will only be for a trilogy? Or do you think he would come back for more films after 3?

[bobguy64]

I think there's a distinction to be made between 'realistic' and 'credible'.

Neal Adams' Batman is credible, whereas Alex Ross' Batman is very realistic.

That being said, give me credible any day. I don't want so much realism that the fantasy gets squashed, but I don't want such a lack of credibility that the situations lose their threat.

For example, if it takes Rachel (or whoever) sixty seconds to fall off a ten story building just to give Bruce enough time to change to Batman, this is just a joke. No threat, no drama, its just a cartoon.

On the other hand, I don't want Batman to drive a ordinary car and wear a black trenchcoat, either. I don't want an ordinary vigilante, I want Batman.

I want a credible version of the fantastic, which is a fine line to walk.

IMO, Nolan is doing a great job so far.



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[sasquatchs]

If Rachel falls off a building, then Batman jumps off, there's no way he can save her. Unless he has rocket boots

[Figs]

So do you guys think Nolan and his realistic world/plausible take on Batman will only be for a trilogy? Or do you think he would come back for more films after 3?


Only a trilogy, if even that. I remember in the past Nolan was saying he might not want to do a third. A lot of fans were then saying that his brother could take over for him if that happens.

I personally want him to do all 3, if he does a 4th that could be cool depending on where the 3rd film leaves us. There are so many characters after Joker/Two-Face that I don't think could hold a movie on their own. Like Mad Hatter, Scarface and so on.... I think Mr. Freeze if done right this time would be a good one.

[itsthebatman]

So do you guys think Nolan and his realistic world/plausible take on Batman will only be for a trilogy? Or do you think he would come back for more films after 3?
Trilogy, I'd say. He'd be creatively burned out. I'd love a really excellent trilogy that tells a whole story, and maybe ends with Robin being introduced, a la Dark Victory. Have Selina in part 3 also, and maybe Cobblepot, and all my fave Bat-characters would be in this trilogy. That, I would love.

[Dvhyzs]

If Rachel falls off a building, then Batman jumps off, there's no way he can save her. Unless he has rocket boots
That would be waaaay too spiderman IMO.

[bobguy64]

If Rachel falls off a building, then Batman jumps off, there's no way he can save her. Unless he has rocket boots

What if he starts out below her, and catches her on the way down?

With his majical flying cape (I never liked that).


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[itsthebatman]

If Rachel falls off a building, then Batman jumps off, there's no way he can save her. Unless he has rocket boots
But that's commonly done in these movies - someone falls, then someone who jumps off a second later catches up with the. Damned variable gravity!

[sasquatchs]

We need another surfing down from the upper atmosphere on a piece of rocket scene, otherwise I'm boycotting this movie

[sasquatchs]

What if he starts out below her, and catches her on the way down?

With his majical flying cape (I never liked that).


.

You don't like the cape? But it adds so much. For a little bit of credibility leeway you don't have to ask the question, what if he falls off the building?

[itsthebatman]

We need another surfing down from the upper atmosphere on a piece of rocket scene, otherwise I'm boycotting this movie
I will be picketing my local theatre. 'Down with this sort of thing!'

[bobguy64]

You don't like the cape? But it adds so much. For a little bit of credibility leeway you don't have to ask the question, what if he falls off the building?

He throws a batarang with a rope attached, and swings to another roof.

Attach a hang glider to the back of your neck, grab it with your hands, and feel the breeze on your face as you choke to death.

:whatever:

[sasquatchs]

A batarang with a rope attached would snap your arms off from the force, it's no better realisitically

[bobguy64]

A batarang with a rope attached would snap your arms off from the force, it's no better realisitically

Only if the batarang catches something directly overhead and you come to a sudden stop.

Throw it to one side and your swing will absorb your kinetic energy. Like a skatboard ramp does.

He would still have to be strong enough to hold his own weight, but, hey. He's Batman.


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[Crook]

To be honest, even if they had used the batrope method, no one would have second-guessed it. You'd have to be a real anal person to not just go with the flow in that situation.

[itsthebatman]

To be honest, even if they had used the batrope method, no one would have second-guessed it. You'd have to be a real anal person to not just go with the flow in that situation.
Anyone seen regwec?:oldrazz:

[sasquatchs]

Yea, the reason I thought the gliding cape was a good addition is just that it frees Batman up more rather than plausibility. In some places Begins was pretty lazy after making an effort at it, but nothing that really takes away from the film. Except the logic of the climax

[bobguy64]

I never liked the gliding cape because, IMO, it takes Batman away from his core.

He's a man. He uses his weapons and skills to appear to be supernatural or superpowered. Granted, he's trained his body and mind to great means, but in the end it's all just tricks.

Giving him a flying cape makes it easy to be Batman, when I think it should be difficult. It should so tough that only a man driven by the most intense rage could do it.



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[sasquatchs]

You think if you put any reasonably fit man in the Begins costume they could be Batman too? I think TDK will show very well what happens when others try to imitate him

[bobguy64]

You think if you put any reasonably fit man in the Begins costume they could be Batman too?

No, what I said was quite the opposite. Only Bruce Wayne can do it.

[sasquatchs]

You said only Bruce Wayne should be able to do it, but with the cape other people would be able to because it's much easier

[fcrowelle06]

See, this is what I'm talking about, we're sticking so much to the "realistic" that we're losing too many aspects of why we loved batman in the first place...geez...anyway, another character I'm worried about it is ClayFace...Nolan would have to work his ass off to make that "realistic"...well the B:TAS origin for him was pretty realistic

[fcrowelle06]

(shrugs)

[bobguy64]

You said only Bruce Wayne should be able to do it, but with the cape other people would be able to because it's much easier

No, I said the cape made it easy to be Batman. IMO, being Batman should be difficult. You went so far as to add the "anybody could do it" stuff.

[bobguy64]

Nolan would have to work his ass off to make that "realistic"...well the B:TAS origin for him was pretty realistic

If they shot that episode live action, I'd be happy. That's my all time favorite.

Loved "Germs" and the seawater scene.



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[sasquatchs]

No, I said the cape made it easy to be Batman. IMO, being Batman should be difficult. You went so far as to add the "anybody could do it" stuff.

Not to be pedantic but:

It should so tough that only a man driven by the most intense rage could do it

If it's not that tough, other people can do it

[fcrowelle06]

yeah, Clay-Face...actually was pretty realistic in that cartoon, still manages to impress me to this day

[bobguy64]

If it's not that tough, other people can do it

You're saying that the average reasonably fit guy on the street is driven by intense rage?

Dude, you're not understanding me at all.

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[sasquatchs]

No, but your sentance says that you don't have to be a man with intense rage to be Batman if you have this new fangled cape. If you don't really mean that, fine. No point arguing over semantics

[bobguy64]

yeah, Clay-Face...actually was pretty realistic in that cartoon, still manages to impress me to this day

Oh, yeah. Hollywood, the mob, mutegenic lotions. That episode has it all.

I betcha the public at large (non comic fans) would just write it off as a Terminator 2 knockoff, which is a real bummer.


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[bobguy64]

No, but your sentance says that you don't have to be a man with intense rage to be Batman if you have this new fangled cape. If you don't really mean that, fine. No point arguing over semantics

Cool. Let's let this drop.

[fcrowelle06]

I still don't know the idiot who approved Catwoman: THe Movie...."Hey...wanna have a Catwoman movie without Batman in at her start..." ......(smack)....(stab)...(bang in the face with shotgun)...(get Christopher Walken to push him out of 5-story where he gets bitten by cats...but dies from the pain)

[fcrowelle06]

that's what I'd do to that guy...stupid, stupid,stupid

[Mr. Socko]

Every time in Begins, when Batman is using the cape it becomes rigid because he touches it with the gloves. I prefer the Batman Returns way where the cape just normally drifts when he's in the air and when he wants it rigid he just uses the glider. In Begins, whenever Batman uses the cape it's gotta be rigid, I believe.

[bobguy64]

I still don't know the idiot who approved Catwoman: THe Movie...."Hey...wanna have a Catwoman movie without Batman in at her start..." ......(smack)....(stab)...(bang in the face with shotgun)...(get Christopher Walken to push him out of 5-story where he gets bitten by cats...but dies from the pain)

I would have loved to be in the meeting where they pitched the concept. That must have been effing hilarious.



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[The Universal]

I think the cape in Batman Begins is dark & gritty; perfect for Nolan's realism.

[fcrowelle06]

that's "realism" for ya....look I like realism, but seriously with all this talk about it, it's like that's the only thing that matters and that's not the case at all, there has to be balance...the best batman film will have balance between realism and fantasy, and yes batman does have a gritty fantasy even though it's taken in a realistic approach

[Mr. Socko]

Oh, yeah. Hollywood, the mob, mutegenic lotions. That episode has it all.

I betcha the public at large (non comic fans) would just write it off as a Terminator 2 knockoff, which is a real bummer.
.


If Clayface was ever used, I'd actually prefer his clay form be similar to the T-1000's where his shape is still human like instead of making him just a big muck. It would also make more sense logically.

[fcrowelle06]

I would have loved to be in the meeting where they pitched the concept. That must have been effing hilarious.



.

I know, I would have been the one in the corner going..NOOOOOOOOO Don't be stupid and waste your effing money you bastards:wow:

[bobguy64]

If Clayface was ever used, I'd actually prefer his clay form be similar to the T-1000's where his shape is still human like instead of making him just a big muck. It would also make more sense logically.

I agree. Since he starts out human, that makes the most sense to me.



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[fcrowelle06]

Seriously, how could someone approve that....it's like having a Robin origin without batman or Joker without Batman, it makes no sense...I HAVE NO IDEA HOW THEY LET THAT DAMN MOVIE GET MADE

[bobguy64]

I know, I would have been the one in the corner going..NOOOOOOOOO Don't be stupid and waste your effing money you bastards:wow:

Actually, I think I would have been vomiting into their briefcases and lattes.



.

[Mr. Socko]

How do you think Clayface could realistically work? You've got a better chance of seeing a man in a rubber bat-suit and a skinny maniac with a potato sack on his face than you do a shape shifter made of clay.

But hey, these are also some of the same people saying Two Face wearing a split suit isn't right for Nolan's gritty realism.

[fcrowelle06]

Actually, I think I would have been vomiting into their briefcases and lattes.



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hahaha, ditto, can't argue, then I think I would have taken the "catwoman/halle berry/without batman" concept if it was written on paper and used it as my toilet paper

[fcrowelle06]

Clayface's story can be used realistically but his appearance can be taken as a little more fantastical..this is Batman not James Bond, it's realistic but not that realistic, don't mix the two worlds up

[Figs]

See, this is what I'm talking about, we're sticking so much to the "realistic" that we're losing too many aspects of why we loved batman in the first place...geez...anyway, another character I'm worried about it is ClayFace...Nolan would have to work his ass off to make that "realistic"...well the B:TAS origin for him was pretty realistic


Fcrowelle06, Clayface is one my favorite Batman villians but I just don't ever thank Nolan would have him in his vision of Batman films. I don't mean the original version either were he had a face change like Chameleon from Spiderman, I'm talking about the badass version from B:TAS, full body, like a monster.

[fcrowelle06]

ahhh, see that's where the recycling of directors comes in, just because Nolan doesn't want to deal with it, doesn't mean it can't be done, I think it can be done, because I never allow myself to believe in impossibility when it comes to these movies, what matters is the people making it,and I believe someone can bring Clay-Face to the screen realistically while giving him justice as the raving full body monster...just depends on the person, but I still think it would be better if Nolan did it

[Figs]

ahhh, see that's where the recycling of directors comes in, just because Nolan doesn't want to deal with it, doesn't mean it can't be done, I think it can be done, because I never allow myself to believe in impossibility when it comes to these movies, what matters is the people making it,and I believe someone can bring Clay-Face to the screen realistically while giving him justice as the raving full body monster...just depends on the person, but I still think it would be better if Nolan did it


I was just saying I don't think Nolan will go that far into the horror/fantasy element. I do agree and think someone else out there could make it happen and do a good, non cheesy job if they had the vision for it.

[bobguy64]

Clayface would definately cross the line into Sci-Fi, no question.

I think the whole 'mob' angle helps ground it in reality, tho.

Would it work in the context of BB? Not a chance, IMO.


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[CaptainClown]

If you did clay face you could make the atmosphere more like a horror and have it kinda be like the movie the thing and throughout the first part of the movie have his shapeshifting skills very minor only with the face and crap. Then make it like the thing with the element of mystery and paranoia over who or what clay face is

[Figs]

If you did clay face you could make the atmosphere more like a horror and have it kinda be like the movie the thing and throughout the first part of the movie have his shapeshifting skills very minor only with the face and crap. Then make it like the thing with the element of mystery and paranoia over who or what clay face is


That idea I like a lot! Not to mention The Thing is one of my fav horror films. :woot:

[CaptainClown]

ty but one thing you have to make sure you don't do is make another sandman where he is a giant monster. He shouldn't be big but more like a monster thing then anything.

[bobguy64]

hahaha, ditto, can't argue, then I think I would have taken the "catwoman/halle berry/without batman" concept if it was written on paper and used it as my toilet paper

My fantasy scenario is this: They had to compensate for the bad script somehow ... so as the script got worse and worse, the CW outfit got skimpier and skimpier.

If they'd kept writing, she might have been naked thru the whole film. Then, ironically, no one would have been paying attention to the plot anyway.


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[Figs]

ty but one thing you have to make sure you don't do is make another sandman where he is a giant monster. He shouldn't be big but more like a monster thing then anything.


Yeah! I didn't care for the monster Sandman at the end of Spiderman 3. They overdid it bigtime(no pun intended). I would have just been happy with the movement he does in the comics sometimes, where his lower half is sandworm like to lift him in the air a little to tower over Spidey. In the film they made him unrecognizable, that's not what I would want either for Clayface.

[Bright Knight]

I find it hysterical there is a need to explain everything. Seriously, if Penguin was ever in a Nolan Bat-film, do we NEED to know how his umbrella shoots bullets? And Penguin always wears a top hat and monocle, it's his style. No reason to get rid of things like that because people think it's too campy or won't fit in "Nolan's gritty realism."



He only wears that get-up predominantly because of the 60's Batman...

Is that really a precedent you want to set?

[Figs]

My fantasy scenario is this: They had to compensate for the bad script somehow ... so as the script got worse and worse, the CW outfit got skimpier and skimpier.

If they'd kept writing, she might have been naked thru the whole film. Then, ironically, no one would have been paying attention to the plot anyway.


.


LOL!:woot:

I still have yet to see that movie. Most of the time I stay away from movies were like minded people say that their garbage. In this case my curiousity keeps getting to me, just to see if it is that bad. I know I'll be kicking myself in the ass later if I do though.

[bobguy64]

He only wears that get-up predominantly because of the 60's Batman...

Dude, Penguin has always dressed like that.

From the very beginning.

(black hat, tho)


.

[fcrowelle06]

He only wears that get-up predominantly because of the 60's Batman...

Is that really a precedent you want to set?


:wow: that's wrong Bright Knight...that's always been the penguin...what other penguin is there, that's been the same penguin in the comics, we want the penguin from the revamped version of B:TAS no the Batman Returns animal for Nolan's world

[Dvhyzs]

LOL!:woot:

I still have yet to see that movie. Most of the time I stay away from movies were like minded people say that their garbage. In this case my curiousity keeps getting to me, just to see if it is that bad. I know I'll be kicking myself in the ass later if I do though.
I was curious one night...

It was on AMC, I watched it up to a Basketball scene where she "shockingly"(sarcasm) was incredible and won...That was where I drew the line.

I have trouble sleeping to this day.:o

[fcrowelle06]

yeah, bright, dude...do your homework, man

[fcrowelle06]

yeah, bright, dude...do your homework, man

[bobguy64]

LOL!:woot:

I still have yet to see that movie. Most of the time I stay away from movies were like minded people say that their garbage. In this case my curiousity keeps getting to me, just to see if it is that bad. I know I'll be kicking myself in the ass later if I do though.

Dude, it's so bad. You can't even drink this movie funny.

The direction is over the top, which makes it pretentiously bad.

Which is a worse form of bad.



.

[CaptainClown]

I could see him using an umbrella for a weapon

[bobguy64]

This has been another installment of "Know Your Penguin".


.

[CaptainClown]

The penguin would walk 4 blocks to get sustenance

[Mr. Socko]

He only wears that get-up predominantly because of the 60's Batman...

Is that really a precedent you want to set?


Yes. Penguin should always have the top hat, long cigar, monocle, umbrella and tux. Even the 60s show and Burton's version got that right.

http://www.yambar.com/comics/1994_files/penguin.gif

[CaptainClown]

Penguin out of all the villains seems the most realistic. I mean except I would doubt he likes being called Penguin so its a kind of mocking him

[Mr. Socko]

I could see him using an umbrella for a weapon


You should, he's always used an umbrella for a weapon. Why would you not see it?

[Figs]

Penguin out of all the villains seems the most realistic. I mean except I would doubt he likes being called Penguin so its a kind of mocking him


I think that's how it was in his backstory from the comics. Kids at school gave him the nickname so he hates it when Bats or his goons refer to him as Penguin. From what I can remember at least.

[Yurka]

Yes. Penguin should always have the top hat, long cigar, monocle, umbrella and tux. Even the 60s show and Burton's version got that right.

http://www.yambar.com/comics/1994_files/penguin.gif


The more I watch Batman Returns, the more I think that Penguin is amazing, Hes such a creepy and evil bastard, he wants to take all the children from Gotham for Christ sake.

[CaptainClown]

ya.. Penguin is alright in my book now if you want to have difficulty creating a villain to screen try man-bat I'm stuck with that guy no matter how i look at it he is the h ardest

[Yurka]

ya.. Penguin is alright in my book now if you want to have difficulty creating a villain to screen try man-bat I'm stuck with that guy no matter how i look at it he is the h ardest

Suprisingly, they kind of did it on the Batman Forever extended DVD.

[Mr. Socko]

The more I watch Batman Returns, the more I think that Penguin is amazing, Hes such a creepy and evil bastard, he wants to take all the children from Gotham for Christ sake.


I liked Burton's take on Penguin, but for everything else I think he works better as a minor character, a crime lord like The Roman.

[Figs]

Suprisingly, they kind of did it on the Batman Forever extended DVD.


What did they have on the extended DVD?

[Bright Knight]

Yes. Penguin should always have the top hat, long cigar, monocle, umbrella and tux. Even the 60s show and Burton's version got that right.



But that fasion wasn't uncommon in the 60's, nor was it unusual in the faux pre WW II Gotham that Burton made....

If Nolan was to create a modern Penguin, I'm sure he'd dress in classy clothes, just, sans the monocle and top hat, they're relics in today's world, unless he was in some broadway musical.... Oh! Now there's an idea?!

I know it's pedantics! But I actually prefer the idea of the Penguin being the nightclub owner... The criminal turned good? (ish)

[Yurka]

I liked Burton's take on Penguin, but for everything else I think he works better as a minor character, a crime lord like The Roman.

I agree.

[Mr. Socko]

Suprisingly, they kind of did it on the Batman Forever extended DVD.


Oh God don't remind me of that! It looked so stupid and fake.

I never ever want to see Man-Bat on screen! NEVER.

[Yurka]

What did they have on the extended DVD?

They have like a dream sequence of Bruce (Val) standing face to face with a giant bat and the bat puts his arms up and it looks alright.

The "man-bat" is like 7 feet tall. I think it looks ok.

[Dvhyzs]

Oh God don't remind me of that! It looked so stupid and fake.

I never ever want to see Man-Bat on screen! NEVER.
:huh: a man-bat cameo? Say it aint so?

[CaptainClown]

What as on the extended forever?

He could could wear a top hat and a monocle, I could see him have a love for late 1800 early 1900 antiques and thats what he has his goons steal to add to his collection.

[CaptainClown]

They have like a dream sequence of Bruce (Val) standing face to face with a giant bat and the bat puts his arms up and it looks alright.

The "man-bat" is like 7 feet tall. I think it looks ok.

ugh man-bat worst villain ever.

[bobguy64]

I never ever want to see Man-Bat on screen! NEVER.

LOL! Actually, I expected to see Man-Bat in BB when Crane gets a taste of his own toxin.

I'm glad they went the other way, tho.

[bobguy64]

:huh: a man-bat cameo? Say it aint so?

Not really, just a man sized bat.

A deleted scene from Forever.

For good reason.

.

[bobguy64]

ugh man-bat worst villain ever.

Killer Moth, anyone?

:oldrazz:

.

[Dvhyzs]

They have like a dream sequence of Bruce (Val) standing face to face with a giant bat and the bat puts his arms up and it looks alright.

The "man-bat" is like 7 feet tall. I think it looks ok.
this it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtouiimSMe0
TtouiimSMe0
Worst.Scene.Ever

[Mr. Socko]

But that fasion wasn't uncommon in the 60's, nor was it unusual in the faux pre WW II Gotham that Burton made....

If Nolan was to create a modern Penguin, I'm sure he'd dress in classy clothes, just, sans the monocle and top hat, they're relics in today's world, unless he was in some broadway musical.... Oh! Now there's an idea?!

'Modern Penguin'...thats exactly why I prefer a Gotham City that is a mix between new and old, one that is near timeless. But since it's set currently, we can't have an old school Penguin....
:huh: a man-bat cameo? Say it aint so?


It's a deleted scene. Bruce sees a giant bat. It's not CG, they built a real one, it was like 7 feet long and looked like a piece of ****!

[Bright Knight]

What as on the extended forever?

He could could wear a top hat and a monocle, I could see him have a love for late 1800 early 1900 antiques and thats what he has his goons steal to add to his collection.


But a guy who steals antiques pales in comparisson to a murderous bastard like the joker?

Bet of a let down after the dark knight, no?

[Figs]

But a guy who steals antiques pales in comparisson to a murderous bastard like the joker?

Bet of a let down after the dark knight, no?


I really like Captain Clowns idea. Just don't make him the main villain and you shouldn't have any problems.

[Yurka]

this it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtouiimSMe0
TtouiimSMe0
Worst.Scene.Ever

yeah, I think there is more though on the DVD.

[Dvhyzs]

yeah, I think there is more though on the DVD.
I'm horrified at the thought.

[Figs]

I'm horrified at the thought.


After seeing that I have to agree. I usually prefer prostetics and effects made from manmade materials over CGI, but only when there done well lol.

[sasquatchs]

yeah, I think there is more though on the DVD.

WTH? They ripped that straight from Empire Strikes Back

[Yurka]

I'm horrified at the thought.

Indeed.
:down

[Yurka]

WTH? They ripped that straight from Empire Strikes Back


Thats exactly what I thought when I watched it. thats probably why its a deleted scene. lol.

[ronzpeed]

Why does the Riddler wear an eye mask? What purpose does it have if everybody knows who he is?

[Dvhyzs]

Why does the Riddler wear an eye mask? What purpose does it have if everybody knows who he is?
It makes him feel sexy....

[CaptainClown]

wow I just saw that scene and wow and thanks figmanJ for liking my ideas

[Starbird]

It makes him feel sexy....

He couldn't find any ladies undergarments...so he went for the eye mask deal.

I never really liked Jim Carey as the Riddler. he was ...annoying

[GoogleMe94]

what do I think of Nolans "realistic" approach? well, i guess for me its a double edged sword. the realism gets it away from that horrible joel schumacher cartoony silly stuff, mainly in B&R, but it also makes batman rather dull and uneventful. placeing his entire world in ultra realism takes away from the specialness of batman. i understand what nolan is trying to do, hes trying to make a batman that seems like he could really exist in our world today with all of todays technology. however, seeing BB, i noticed that all this, while it seemed to tell a good story, took away one crucial aspect that all the past batman films have in one way or another : Fun. it just wasnt fun. it wasnt exciting or even "cool". it was just too serious for its own good. even though the burton films were dark (especially Returns) they still rememberd to have that wicked humour courtesy of the awsome villians, or the cool bat vehicles like the batwing, etc. iconic moments that for me, Begins never had. it was to into its realism, and IMO never really took off because of it. it was like nolan and goyer kept stepping on batmans cape just when he was about to maybe do something extraordinary.

of course, i dont expect any of the major fanboiys to agree with me, but those are just my thoughts. i still consider myself a batman fan, just not a fan of ultra-realism in comic book movies.

[Dvhyzs]

He couldn't find any ladies undergarments...so he went for the eye mask deal.

I never really liked Jim Carey as the Riddler. he was ...annoying
Ha! you use elipses alot...like me.:oldrazz:

http://web.utah.edu/ska/uu/nicole/images/carrey/riddler3.jpg
I couldn't help myself...:woot:

[Figs]

what do I think of Nolans "realistic" approach? well, i guess for me its a double edged sword. the realism gets it away from that horrible joel schumacher cartoony silly stuff, mainly in B&R, but it also makes batman rather dull and uneventful. placeing his entire world in ultra realism takes away from the specialness of batman. i understand what nolan is trying to do, hes trying to make a batman that seems like he could really exist in our world today with all of todays technology. however, seeing BB, i noticed that all this, while it seemed to tell a good story, took away one crucial aspect that all the past batman films have in one way or another : Fun. it just wasnt fun. it wasnt exciting or even "cool". it was just too serious for its own good. even though the burton films were dark (especially Returns) they still rememberd to have that wicked humour courtesy of the awsome villians, or the cool bat vehicles like the batwing, etc. iconic moments that for me, Begins never had. it was to into its realism, and IMO never really took off because of it. it was like nolan and goyer kept stepping on batmans cape just when he was about to maybe do something extraordinary.

of course, i dont expect any of the major fanboiys to agree with me, but those are just my thoughts. i still consider myself a batman fan, just not a fan of ultra-realism in comic book movies.


Although I prefer Nolan's film to Burton's I understand what your saying. I can still remember seeing Batman '89 for the first time and thinking how badass it was when it just jumped to the scene of him in the Batwing going into the city. I'm guessing now that we got most of his origin out of the way we might have some pretty damn cool memorable scenes in TDK.

[sasquatchs]

He's trying to make him an incredible figure in a normal world, seems like an interesting contrast to have instead of everything being fantastical. There was a lack of iconic shots though, more about the direction than the confines of "realism"

[Starbird]

Ha! you use elipses alot...like me.:oldrazz:

http://web.utah.edu/ska/uu/nicole/images/carrey/riddler3.jpg
I couldn't help myself...:woot:

yay lol. that picture shouldn't exsist:oldrazz:

[terry78]

The issue is that when you strive to make comic book movies serious and believable you take away the fantastic aspect that so many fans over the years have loved. Batman is a dark concept, but he's faced some weird ass ****.

[terry78]

The issue is that when you strive to make comic book movies serious and believable you take away the fantastic aspect that so many fans over the years have loved. Batman is a dark concept, but he's faced some weird ass ****.

[Mr. Socko]

The issue is that when you strive to make comic book movies serious and believable you take away the fantastic aspect that so many fans over the years have loved. Batman is a dark concept, but he's faced some weird ass ****.


I completely agree.

[hame4479]

I never liked the gliding cape because, IMO, it takes Batman away from his core.

He's a man. He uses his weapons and skills to appear to be supernatural or superpowered. Granted, he's trained his body and mind to great means, but in the end it's all just tricks.

Giving him a flying cape makes it easy to be Batman, when I think it should be difficult. It should so tough that only a man driven by the most intense rage could do it.



.

It doesnt make it easy. It really just takes something that he does constantly in the comics with no explanation, ie gliding or at least looking like he is gliding, and gives it one. And considering he is constantly moving up and down the side of buildings it really helps to explain how he is getting around without breaking his neck

[Bright Knight]

'Modern Penguin'...thats exactly why I prefer a Gotham City that is a mix between new and old, one that is near timeless. But since it's set currently, we can't have an old school Penguin....



I love BTAS version of Gotham, the Art Deco look, or a meeting of Burton's "Dark Deco" with the future, basically like the movie Metropolis.

I love the look of a futuristic 1930's, and I was really disappointed that Nolan didn't go down that route.

[CaptainClown]

I love BTAS version of Gotham, the Art Deco look, or a meeting of Burton's "Dark Deco" with the future, basically like the movie Metropolis.

I love the look of a futuristic 1930's, and I was really disappointed that Nolan didn't go down that route.

same here

[Mr. Socko]

I agree, but on the other hand it's nice that Nolan went for something different, a completely different take. We have so many Batman movies to look forward to, it's always cool having every few of them be different. Right now, we're on fast track. Every 3 years we get a new Batman film. I think we'll continue on the realistic take for the next few years. After Nolan's 3, who's know what will happen. He may come back for one more, but that's the most I could see him doing after a third. Just imagine him doing two trilogies of Batman films. Close to 20 years of his life.

[CaptainClown]

Ya I think Nolan has bigger and better plans in mind. Though I wouldn't mind it, I would like it if he produces another series though.

[Agentsands77]

on the other hand it's nice that Nolan went for something different, a completely different take.
Agreed. I love gothic Batman and film noir Batman as much as anyone, but I don't want Batman to be only that. Nor would I want Batman to be only as he's presented in the Nolanverse. Nolan's vision isn't definitive, but no version is - Batman is a character that should be continually viewed under different lenses and approaches.

I'm glad we got a new, refreshing take on Batman that paints him in a different light than we've seen him. Does this approach sacrifice some things? Yes. But it also adds other things.

[Mr. Socko]

I agree, Sheldon.

Ya I think Nolan has bigger and better plans in mind. Though I wouldn't mind it, I would like it if he produces another series though.


I don't think you can have "bigger or better" plans than Batman unless he's going after Best director or plans to direct Spider-Man in the future:oldrazz:


But hey, he could do the "best director" picture in between bat-films.

[Bright Knight]

Agreed. I love gothic Batman and film noir Batman as much as anyone, but I don't want Batman to be only that. Nor would I want Batman to be only as he's presented in the Nolanverse. Nolan's vision isn't definitive, but no version is - Batman is a character that should be continually viewed under different lenses and approaches.



I'm glad we got a new, refreshing take on Batman that paints him in a different light than we've seen him. Does this approach sacrifice some things? Yes. But it also adds other things.





Very well said.

[CaptainClown]

I agree, Sheldon.




I don't think you can have "bigger or better" plans than Batman unless he's going after Best director or plans to direct Spider-Man in the future:oldrazz:


But hey, he could do the "best director" picture in between bat-films.

thats what I meant by bigger and better. I think he might want to make a good oscar worthy movie though

[Mr. Socko]

The Prestige was snubbed of many nominations.

[CaptainClown]

Oh ya def. I read somewhere that comic book movies are really draining so I dunno if he wants to keep all that up.

[Mr. Socko]

Draining?

As long as they've got good talent behind them, they'll do good. But that's just the problem. The studios are hiring sucky talent like Tim Story for FF and MSJ for Ghost Rider. It's people like Nolan who keep the genre afloat. Raimi was doing good at first too.

[CaptainClown]

Well I mean draining like its a tiresome not like he is bored with it just like physically draining.

[Mr. Socko]

Oh ok, I thought you meant something else. Yea, I bet they are tiresome. You can finish a non-fx movie within months. Can take up to years to do a superhero film.

[Bright Knight]

The Prestige was snubbed of many nominations.


Best Film of 2006 IMO. And that has nothing to do with being a fan of Nolan. I really really loved that film.

[CaptainClown]

Ya I love that film I think we have gone over that huh?

[Agentsands77]

The Prestige was snubbed of many nominations.
So were a number of great films from 2006. UNITED 93 didn't get its due, nor did PAN'S LABYRINTH, which, if there was any justice in the world, would have swept the awards.

[CaptainClown]

Last year there were a lot of good movies out. Pan's should have been in best film though.

[Crook]

The Departed deserved the award you losers. :o

[CaptainClown]

Oh ya I forgot about the Departed ya your right Departed deserved best film thats why I said a lot of good films

[Mr. Socko]

The Departed deserved the award you losers. :o


No one said it didn't.

I said Prestige should have gotten more noms is all.

[Doc Samson]

Agreed. I love gothic Batman and film noir Batman as much as anyone, but I don't want Batman to be only that. Nor would I want Batman to be only as he's presented in the Nolanverse. Nolan's vision isn't definitive, but no version is - Batman is a character that should be continually viewed under different lenses and approaches.

I'm glad we got a new, refreshing take on Batman that paints him in a different light than we've seen him. Does this approach sacrifice some things? Yes. But it also adds other things.

Precisely! Hopefully alot of people who dearly love Burton's films can understand it's not a fact of choice, rather a preference. Burton & Nolan delivered terrific Batman films, but definitive is something not even the comic books have mastered. No one should expect a film to either...

[roach]

I am against the hyper realism. In making these movies it's not about bringing these characters into our world but about recreating a world where a man dressed as a bat seems like a good idea. That is the major problem because if you have this hyper realism than you stand the chance of having your fim picked apart because of things not being real.

[CaptainClown]

I like the hyper realism on certain things, but I like it when its applied to fantasy things mainly because I feel a greater connection to that then a world I definitely know I would never see. It is like that false hope of going its possible.

[roach]

Batman in the real world would never work out the way it does in the comics

[CaptainClown]

Ya I know non of that would work in the real world but it really depends on the viewer, some like to keep their fantasy with fantasy and realism with realism and some like to see it mixed

[roach]

Some realism is fine..too much is not a good thing

[fcrowelle06]

I just want a mix of both, I mean this is a fictional based character in a comic-book world, and it's being made into a movie, if I wanted realism, I'd buy a bat-suit and start digging out a cavern and start punching clowns left and right...and then take a random kid who looks like me from an orphanage and give hime karate training

[TromaFreak64]

I just want a mix of both, I mean this is a fictional based character in a comic-book world, and it's being made into a movie, if I wanted realism, I'd buy a bat-suit and start digging out a cavern and start punching clowns left and right...and then take a random kid who looks like me from an orphanage and give hime karate training

I think this is pretty much how I am gonna live my life starting today.

[Agentsands77]

I just want a mix of both, I mean this is a fictional based character in a comic-book world, and it's being made into a movie,
Well sure. Batman's ultimately fantasy, and that's inescapable. Even Nolan knows that. BEGINS gave us plenty of fantasy painted with a coat of "realism," and THE DARK KNIGHT looks like it'll do the same.

[itsthebatman]

The Departed deserved the award you losers. :o
United 93 > The Departed (much as I love it)

[Monster]

Is Nolan still intent on using realism in TDK because I've had a theory that acid possibly can't do that amount of damage to The Joker or Two Face.

Just a hunch.

Enlightenment would be neccesary.

[dark_b]

Well sure. Batman's ultimately fantasy, and that's inescapable. Even Nolan knows that. BEGINS gave us plenty of fantasy painted with a coat of "realism," and THE DARK KNIGHT looks like it'll do the same.not hte first comics.
with all due respect :cwink:

[fcrowelle06]

he means ultimately buddy, when a man dresses up as bat to fight crime that's fantasy....that's fantasy

[thegameq]

See, this is what I'm talking about, we're sticking so much to the "realistic" that we're losing too many aspects of why we loved batman in the first place...geez...anyway, another character I'm worried about it is ClayFace...Nolan would have to work his ass off to make that "realistic"...well the B:TAS origin for him was pretty realistic

In Nolan's world Clay Face would probably be a Lon Chaney "man of a thousand faces type, quick change artist type". The morphing aspect of the character would probably be abandoned sadly.

[Figs]

In Nolan's world Clay Face would probably be a Lon Chaney "man of a thousand faces type, quick change artist type". The morphing aspect of the character would probably be abandoned sadly.


That's what I wouldn't want to see. If they can't find a non cheesy way of doing the monster style Animated Series version of Clayface, I wouldn't care to see him on the big screen at all then.

[Mr. Socko]

I love this realism debate. Come on, what else can we discuss to fit into Nolan's bat-verse.

[sasquatchs]

Men in leotards

[fcrowelle06]

I love this realism debate. Come on, what else can we discuss to fit into Nolan's bat-verse.\

How about we discuss Robin's realism and how he would fit into Nolan's world:woot:

[sasquatchs]

How about, what kind of person would work for the Joker? Possibly they don't understand him or know what he's capable of

[CaptainClown]

Well if you need money, or if you admire him or if he scares you so much that you would rather be at the side of the devil then in his path

[gwynplaine]

The Manson Family. That's what the Joker should have, a "Family" like Charlie.

[fcrowelle06]

Holmes For Wonder Woman Role???
Date: August 16, 2007

By: Ryan 'The Rican with the Irish name' McLelland
Source: Star Pulse


Please Lord. Please let it not be true!

Let me get down on both knees. Lord? Ryan here.

I've sat through some bad comic book movies. I have. But now comes the news that Katie Holmes wants to be Wonder Woman? Do producers really have any brains or are they really just humoring Mrs. Cruise?

I love Batman Begins but every time I saw her face on screen I swear it was going to DROOP off. Then they dropped her from the sequel and I was happy. I rejoiced. I said thank you onto the Lord and all was well.

What is the news that came out?

Well it seems that Katie headed home to have a secret meeting with her agents and producers about starring in the big-screen version of the popular ‘70s television series Wonder Woman. “Katie apparently didn’t want Tom to be a part of the discussions,” the source tells Star magazine.

The movie version of Wonder Woman has been bouncing around Hollywood for years, but with the success of Spider-Man, Transformers and other blockbusters based on cartoons and toys, it’s been moved to the front burner.

“The movie’s only at the discussion state, but Katie feels this role as a kick-ass superhero will put her back in the public eye,” the source says. “She wants to show her stuff, and she wants to prove that she can stand on her own two feet without Tom’s help. Tom, at times, feels compelled to oversee Katie’s career, but Katie is bent on doing this alone. She actually scheduled the meeting when she knew Tom wasn’t going to be able to be there.” Cruise has been filming the WWII themed Valkyrie in Berlin since July.

Please excuse the "Katie said this Tom said that" quotes but this did come from a tabloid magazine. You know what? I believe the tabloids most of all!

So Lord...if you are out there. I'd rather die, go to hell, and watch Batman & Robin, Tank Girl, and Spider-Man 3 over and over for INFINITY then let Holmes get this role. She's like what? 5 foot nothing? 8 pounds?

If she walked up trying to stop me I'd laugh at her. Then tell her to go buy a new outfit because the "big girl Wonder Woman bust" is falling off of her. I wouldn't even fire my gun at her, I'd take one well placed throw at her head WITH THE GUN and knock her out. My grandma Flo would kick the crap out of Wonder Woman Katie.

But that's just my two cents. Seriously? Is Jessica Biel really not available!?!?!? Charlize Theron??? I mean Sandra Bullock is 190 years old now but she's still sexy!!! Producers please call me ASAP so we can talk some real casting!

........ thERE's genuine shock on my face from reading this, yes I know this is off topic, but can this be real?

[CaptainClown]

katie?/ wonderwoman??

[Mr. Socko]

Where's this from?

Can't be true! :wow:

[fcrowelle06]

While I give her props for "standing up to her man".....can this really be real?

[fcrowelle06]

OH MY GOD!!!, yeah guys I found this...and i think it's accurate

[CaptainClown]

scientology needs to give her back her brain...sigh now time to go buy more comics

[fcrowelle06]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!, Stupid Stupid Producers

[bobguy64]

Jeeez, no.

She's soooo bad.



.

[TromaFreak64]

We are off topic now...

Mr. Freeze, I heard one take on him before, what does anyone else think of him appearing?

[fcrowelle06]

There Are Joker Stills In The Tdk Forum, Evrybody Move From This Thread To See

[DarkSuperman]

\

How about we discuss Robin's realism and how he would fit into Nolan's world:woot:

Robin could still work. In some countries children fight in wars along side adults. Besides, Dick Grayson is not your average child. He was highly capable and smarter than most adults. It's not so far fetched that batman would train him gradually in martial arts then have him do stuff like surveillance then move into shadowing, etc, etc,

The better he gets, the more responsibility batman would place on him. Batman wouldn't let him do anything that he wasn't ready for. Not to mention He would most likely be there every step of the way in case he got in over his head. More than likely he'd prove he doesn't need batman's help as much as he thought.

Furthermore Dick should be portrayed as someone who would've went out and been a vigilante anyway, just that under batman its more disciplined.

[GoogleMe94]

i think this new series of films is good, but i still wish nolan would get off his high horse of realism and start adding in more fantastical elements. i mean like REAL iconic moments, something you would see in spiderman films or in either of the tim burton batman films. useing the bat motif alot. i just wish nolans batman had an iconic look. but it seems like nolan cares more about the story then he does the action, which isnt a BAD thing, but cmon when it all comes down to it, its a comic book movie and ppl want to see some awsome action and great visuals, with the story just helping to support the action.

for me, burton struck the right balance of realism and fantasy. something which nolan should maybe try to do in the new films. he can still have his "vision" for the character, but strike the right balance.

[Doc Samson]

i think this new series of films is good, but i still wish nolan would get off his high horse of realism and start adding in more fantastical elements. i mean like REAL iconic moments, something you would see in spiderman films or in either of the tim burton batman films. useing the bat motif alot. i just wish nolans batman had an iconic look. but it seems like nolan cares more about the story then he does the action, which isnt a BAD thing, but cmon when it all comes down to it, its a comic book movie and ppl want to see some awsome action and great visuals, with the story just helping to support the action.

for me, burton struck the right balance of realism and fantasy. something which nolan should maybe try to do in the new films. he can still have his "vision" for the character, but strike the right balance.

I always thought TDK might bring some of those elements back. That, to me, was the best part of Burton's Batman. He was more mystical, just appearing and disappearing with no emotion, like a machine. Combine that with Keaton's eyes and that'd be enough to scare the hell out of anybody. While I feel Nolan's film was better, part of the result of showing everything leading up to Batman's appearance was the anticlimatic feel of it all. When he showed up you never quite got that feeling you did when Keaton's Batman would appear. Now that the origin and everything is out the way we'll hopefully get some of that mystique and aura back...

[Tempest19]

its a comic book movie and ppl want to see some awsome action and great visuals, with the story just helping to support the action.

For me, it's the exact opposite. The action and visuals should be guided to support the story. Many of the great comic book films have taken this approach. BB, imo, took it one step further and that's why it's my favorite superhero film by far. If you have a story only there to support the action, the action isn't going to be good or mean a heck of alot it would just be action that dies out. If you have a great story, there is an established connection to the characters and thus the action carries weight.

But, if you can have more than just action, if you can devote yourself to a story then you have something else entirely. You have perfect action sequences, Mr. Googleme.

[Warhammer]

My opinion on Realism vs. Fantasy:

Realism vs. Fantasy is a petty argument. The former (from a critical P.O.V.) is a fanboy complaint, while the latter is merely justification to rank Tim Burton's films over Nolan's.

[dude love]

My opinion on Realism vs. Fantasy:

Realism vs. Fantasy is a petty argument. The former (from a critical P.O.V.) is a fanboy complaint, while the latter is merely justification to rank Tim Burton's films over Nolan's.

Nothing petty about you posted. :whatever:

People go to watch movies about a guy who dresses up as a bat and fights an evil clown to escape from reality for a couple of hours and just be entertained. This can't happen when you spend so much time explaining every little gadget to make it believable. Especially when the audience never really cared.

And there's plenty enough reasons to rank Burton's material higher as it is. :ninja:

[Spade]

I agree with Warhammer. He may have been a tad harsh, but I have never heard a single complaint in real life by anyone I know about how obsessed over realism Nolan is or how fantasy shouldn't be so present in a Batman story. All I've heard is from people who are fans and want to see a good Batman movie. For me, that's where the argument ends. But the moment I get into this forum you'd think this was a heated debate on every street corner worthy of national attention with breaking news coverage.

[Warhammer]

Nothing petty about you posted. :whatever:

People go to watch movies about a guy who dresses up as a bat and fights an evil clown to escape from reality for a couple of hours and just be entertained. This can't happen when you spend so much time explaining every little gadget to make it believable. Especially when the audience never really cared.

And there's plenty enough reasons to rank Burton's material higher as it is. :ninja:

This proves my point right here.
You were obviously in fanboy mode when you said that.
Look at it as if you were a casual movie-goer, not a Batman fan.

I agree with Warhammer. He may have been a tad harsh, but I have never heard a single complaint in real life by anyone I know about how obsessed over realism Nolan is or how fantasy shouldn't be so present in a Batman story. All I've heard is from people who are fans and want to see a good Batman movie. For me, that's where the argument ends. But the moment I get into this forum you'd think this was a heated debate on every street corner worthy of national attention with breaking news coverage.

Word. :up:

I guess I was a bit harsh. :csad:

[dark_b]

people should watch the new leaked pics. you can see batman jumping on a car. hes cape look 2 times bigger. why is that? beacause its a movie and it looks cool.

so the ones who are always saying that everything is realistic. its not. nolan uses some explanation so that we can buy easier in those movies. but they are not realistic.

joker can still have perma white skin and it would fit in nolans bat universe

[Jerry!]

I agree with Warhammer. He may have been a tad harsh, but I have never heard a single complaint in real life by anyone I know about how obsessed over realism Nolan is or how fantasy shouldn't be so present in a Batman story. All I've heard is from people who are fans and want to see a good Batman movie. For me, that's where the argument ends. But the moment I get into this forum you'd think this was a heated debate on every street corner worthy of national attention with breaking news coverage.

Thumbs up.

[CaptainClown]

yup people are crazy

[Mr. Socko]

You can't have iconic; you can't have epic in complete realism nor the illusion of such. To hell with the dark, gritty realism. The way I see it, if something from the comics can't be adapted or put into the film, then they're going about it the wrong way.

[Monster]

I'd love to see "Mr Freeze" looking realistic in Mr Nolan's films.

I say we cast Mike Myers as the Riddler.

Have that for realism.

LOL

[Darknightnomis]

I think this whole series of Batman movies are proposly being made to be a contrast to how they the others were made in the sense that BAtman was a part of an already surealistic world.

The first 2 movies Gothan was extremely Gothic and Dark, and then the last two it was a neon paradise. So Batman was already part of a non-realistic world.

I think Nolan and Golan sold there version to WB on how they wanted Batman to be preceived in that Batman himself would be the only sensational thing in a very realistic world.

[Warhammer]

You can't have iconic; you can't have epic in complete realism nor the illusion of such.

Why exactly can't you have iconic/epic (what was that even supposed to mean)? What does the term "iconic" or "epic" mean to you? a special effects extravaganza?

Does that mean The Godfather is not iconic or epic because it felt realistic? Comparing past Batman films to Batman Begins, what was so iconic/epic about the former that made them stand out from the latter? Please elaborate for me.

To hell with the dark, gritty realism. The way I see it, if something from the comics can't be adapted or put into the film, then they're going about it the wrong way.

What is your honest opinion about how Bats is supposed to be translated then? How are they going about it the wrong way?

I'd love to see "Mr Freeze" looking realistic in Mr Nolan's films.

Who said that Mr. Freeze couldn't be in Nolan's world?
Why can't he look realistic?

I say we cast Mike Myers as the Riddler.

Have that for realism.

LOL

:rolleyes:

What does a casting decision have to do with anything?
Your logic is flawed with this one.

[Monster]

Who said that Mr. Freeze couldn't be in Nolan's world?
Why can't he look realistic?



:rolleyes:

What does a casting decision have to do with anything?
Your logic is flawed with this one.

Haha, are you making fun of me? :(

[fcrowelle06]

For me, it's the exact opposite. The action and visuals should be guided to support the story. Many of the great comic book films have taken this approach. BB, imo, took it one step further and that's why it's my favorite superhero film by far. If you have a story only there to support the action, the action isn't going to be good or mean a heck of alot it would just be action that dies out. If you have a great story, there is an established connection to the characters and thus the action carries weight.

But, if you can have more than just action, if you can devote yourself to a story then you have something else entirely. You have perfect action sequences, Mr. Googleme.

Exactly, and because of that way of story-telliing it's becoming a little too predictable, I mean the same technique was used for Spider-man 3, except no one liked the story, I did though....but I still Venom should have gotten away...might make Peter live with that guilt

[fcrowelle06]

Look, I think the problem here is this: WHen Batman 89 came people loved it immensely, because it was a serious interpretation not over-top it was basically like the world jumped off the pages but there was gripping about the story, because 1.Batman doesn't kill and he had a death count (wtf?) and 2. Joker never killed Batman's parents, now we have Batman Begins which got his origin down to a T, but the realism is too much set in our world and our Fantastical Iconic images that we see in our heads and the comic, cartoons are fair and far between...Nolan needs to give us balance

[Warhammer]

Haha, are you making fun of me? :(

My sarcasm sense is tingling. :o

[Mr. Socko]

Does that mean The Godfather is not iconic or epic because it felt realistic?

You present a good point when you raise up Godfather. It's certainly iconic, but I don't think it's epic. To me, epic is simply breath-taking, something you rarely see, something special.

Comparing past Batman films to Batman Begins, what was so iconic/epic about the former that made them stand out from the latter? Please elaborate for me.

Nothing, Schumacher's films were trash, Burton's were average. What? Were you thinking I preferred them over Nolan's?

What is your honest opinion about how Bats is supposed to be translated then? How are they going about it the wrong way?

I never said they were going about it the wrong way, now did I? To repeat, "if something from the comics can't be adapted or put into the film, then they're going about it the wrong way." Now tell me where I said Nolan was going about it the wrong way...nowhere did I say such I thing. I was speaking in general about how it should be adapted. It's almost as if it raises flags, as soon as I said "I don't care for dark gritty realism," everyone jumps up and assume I mean Christopher Nolan. I am stating that comment for all adaptations of Batman in general. If there's something in the comics that can't be adapted or put into the film, then they're doing something wrong.

[Monster]

My sarcasm sense is tingling. :o

Haha, I like you. You've made my day at a boring office.

[Warhammer]

You present a good point when you raise up Godfather. It's certainly iconic, but I don't think it's epic. To me, epic is simply breath-taking, something you rarely see, something special.

I thought that The Godfather was both, because it was breath-taking, (etc.) at the time of it's release. Whatever floats your boat.

Nothing, Schumacher's films were trash, Burton's were average. What? Were you thinking I preferred them over Nolan's?

Actually, I did.

Sorry, Socko.
I was on thrasher mode, because I thought you were going to bring up how so and so Batman film was better than so and so Batman film without a good explanation.

I never said they were going about it the wrong way, now did I? To repeat, "if something from the comics can't be adapted or put into the film, then they're going about it the wrong way." Now tell me where I said Nolan was going about it the wrong way...nowhere did I say such I thing. I was speaking in general about how it should be adapted. It's almost as if it raises flags, as soon as I said "I don't care for dark gritty realism," everyone jumps up and assume I mean Christopher Nolan. I am stating that comment for all adaptations of Batman in general. If there's something in the comics that can't be adapted or put into the film, then they're doing something wrong.

The way you started your post, as well as realism being the key word associated with Christopher Nolan around here, I was only assuming that you dogging on Nolan and Batman Begins without a plausable reason (like I see alot of people do. When I debate with any poster on the Hype about anything, I want people to fully express/elaborate their opinion/view or else, they shouldn't pass judgment).

My bad for assuming. :csad:

Haha, I like you. You've made my day at a boring office.

I'm glad to be of service. :up:

[terry78]

The only thing is that you can't really have some of the more bizzare elements in Nolan's world, like Bat-robots, Clayface, Killer Moth, guys like that. Now what I do want to see in a future Nolan movie is Hugo Strange, as he belongs in this universe.

[Monster]

The only thing is that you can't really have some of the more bizzare elements in Nolan's world, like Bat-robots, Clayface, Killer Moth, guys like that. Now what I do want to see in a future Nolan movie is Hugo Strange, as he belongs in this universe.


Who the hell is Hugo Strange?

[Warhammer]

^http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Strange

The only thing is that you can't really have some of the more bizzare elements in Nolan's world, like Bat-robots, Clayface, Killer Moth, guys like that. Now what I do want to see in a future Nolan movie is Hugo Strange, as he belongs in this universe.

Definitely on Hugo Strange. :up:

As for Clayface, I like him, but I never really considered him an 1st-tier villain. Killer Moth is a benchwarmer, along with Copperhead, etc. :o

[terry78]

Who the hell is Hugo Strange?

I hope you were being sarcastic or you just aren't a real hardcore Batman fan.

[Mr. Socko]

I thought that The Godfather was both, because it was breath-taking, (etc.) at the time of it's release. Whatever floats your boat.



Actually, I did.

Sorry, Socko.
I was on thrasher mode, because I thought you were going to bring up how so and so Batman film was better than so and so Batman film without a good explanation.



The way you started your post, as well as realism being the key word associated with Christopher Nolan around here, I was only assuming that you dogging on Nolan and Batman Begins without a plausable reason (like I see alot of people do. When I debate with any poster on the Hype about anything, I want people to fully express/elaborate their opinion/view or else, they shouldn't pass judgment).

My bad for assuming. :csad:

No problem. I personally don't buy the "Nolan's realism" thing. It's just something a bunch of people on the internet have started. Chris Nolan's only comment about realism is that he wants to create heightened realism and there's a big difference. I believe he means if anything "bizarre" happens in the bat-world, he wants to give it an explanation, and make it seem at least plausible. Then people come along and screw his words all up. One side started it to completely bash his films and another side started it to justify any changes they'd like to see. It's all on the fence.

The only thing is that you can't really have some of the more bizzare elements in Nolan's world, like Bat-robots, Clayface, Killer Moth, guys like that. Now what I do want to see in a future Nolan movie is Hugo Strange, as he belongs in this universe.

I must disagree. Bat-robots(?) Clayface, Killer Moth, etc can all fit into Nolan's Bat-world, he will just give them a plausible reason for being there. No where has Nolan ever said he is against such things, people just made this bull up to keep him down.

[terry78]

No problem. I personally don't buy the "Nolan's realism" thing. It's just something a bunch of people on the internet have started. Chris Nolan's only comment about realism is that he wants to create heightened realism and there's a big difference. I believe he means if anything "bizarre" happens in the bat-world, he wants to give it an explanation, and make it seem at least plausible. Then people come along and screw his words all up. One side started it to completely bash his films and another side started it to justify any changes they'd like to see. It's all on the fence.



I must disagree. Bat-robots(?) Clayface, Killer Moth, etc can all fit into Nolan's Bat-world, he will just give them a plausible reason for being there. No where has Nolan ever said he is against such things, people just made this bull up to keep him down.


Like robotic suits of armor from The Batman series, and things like HARDAC.

[Monster]

I hope you were being sarcastic or you just aren't a real hardcore Batman fan.

Just Wiki'd him, never saw his character before.

Sorry. :csad:

[Warhammer]

No problem. I personally don't buy the "Nolan's realism" thing. It's just something a bunch of people on the internet have started. Chris Nolan's only comment about realism is that he wants to create heightened realism and there's a big difference. I believe he means if anything "bizarre" happens in the bat-world, he wants to give it an explanation, and make it seem at least plausible. Then people come along and screw his words all up. One side started it to completely bash his films and another side started it to justify any changes they'd like to see. It's all on the fence.



I must disagree. Bat-robots(?) Clayface, Killer Moth, etc can all fit into Nolan's Bat-world, he will just give them a plausible reason for being there. No where has Nolan ever said he is against such things, people just made this bull up to keep him down.

I like that.
I always thought that realism was a fanboy complaint.
Kudos to you for not actually picking a side, like alot of people are doing.

:up:

[fcrowelle06]

Basically WarHammer, i'm just fine with 50/50 Batman 89 had more fantascism, Begins had more realism...I just want the right mix

[Monster]

Oh, that's changed my views on realism completely.

So Nolan's using PEE for his realism?

Note: Point Evidence Explanation

:D

[dark_b]

No problem. I personally don't buy the "Nolan's realism" thing. It's just something a bunch of people on the internet have started. Chris Nolan's only comment about realism is that he wants to create heightened realism and there's a big difference. I believe he means if anything "bizarre" happens in the bat-world, he wants to give it an explanation, and make it seem at least plausible. Then people come along and screw his words all up. One side started it to completely bash his films and another side started it to justify any changes they'd like to see. It's all on the fence.



I must disagree. Bat-robots(?) Clayface, Killer Moth, etc can all fit into Nolan's Bat-world, he will just give them a plausible reason for being there. No where has Nolan ever said he is against such things, people just made this bull up to keep him down.mr socko gets it.

thank god. :yay:

[fcrowelle06]

told your perfection would just be a mix of fantasy and realism

[fcrowelle06]

that's all batman needs

[Monster]

mr socko gets it.

thank god. :yay:

I do, I'm just unsure what he means in the terms of realism.

Or I'm just retarded.

[dark_b]

I do, I'm just unsure what he means in the terms of realism.

Or I'm just retarded.no your not.

[The Universal]

I like that.
I always thought that realism was a fanboy complaint.
Kudos to you for not actually picking a side, like alot of people are doing.

:up:
Nolan's realism is dark & gritty, god damnit! :cmad:

[Monster]

no your not.

Thanks for the re-assurance, will you be my friend? :D

haha.

[Mr. Socko]

I can't tell if that was sarcasm but I always laugh when the "dark gritty realism" comment comes up...lol

[Thespiralgoeson]

You can't have iconic; you can't have epic in complete realism nor the illusion of such. To hell with the dark, gritty realism. The way I see it, if something from the comics can't be adapted or put into the film, then they're going about it the wrong way.

Mr. Socko... Thank you so much for "getting it." Seriously, thank you. Now that I know someone agrees with me, I can rest assured that I'm not going crazy.

[The Universal]

No problem. I personally don't buy the "Nolan's realism" thing. It's just something a bunch of people on the internet have started. Chris Nolan's only comment about realism is that he wants to create heightened realism and there's a big difference. I believe he means if anything "bizarre" happens in the bat-world, he wants to give it an explanation, and make it seem at least plausible. Then people come along and screw his words all up. One side started it to completely bash his films and another side started it to justify any changes they'd like to see. It's all on the fence.



I must disagree. Bat-robots(?) Clayface, Killer Moth, etc can all fit into Nolan's Bat-world, he will just give them a plausible reason for being there. No where has Nolan ever said he is against such things, people just made this bull up to keep him down.
Clayface would fit perfectly into this world, he'd just have to be dark & gritty to be incorporated into Nolan's realism. Like, he's really just this sick, twisted bastard who's covered in dried blood, and it cakes and cracks all over his skin making it look like dried clay. Also, he molds his murdering tools out of clay.

So dark & gritty and Nolan's-realistic that I think I just shat myself.

[Warhammer]

edit...

[Mr. Socko]

Clayface would fit perfectly into this world, he'd just have to be dark & gritty to be incorporated into Nolan's realism. Like, he's really just this sick, twisted bastard who's covered in dried blood, and it cakes and cracks all over his skin making it look like dried clay. Also, he molds his murdering tools out of clay.

So dark & gritty and Nolan's-realistic that I think I just shat myself.

lol

Now I know you're not serious...

[Mr. Socko]

edit...


I just noticed you got my girl in your avvy. ;)

[Warhammer]

I just noticed you got my girl in your avvy. ;)

Maria. :heart:

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i236/Aftermath6/maria-kanellis-1.jpg

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i236/Aftermath6/maria-kanellis-13.jpg

[Mr. Socko]

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/6208/yumxq9.gif

[Thespiralgoeson]

Clayface would fit perfectly into this world, he'd just have to be dark & gritty to be incorporated into Nolan's realism. Like, he's really just this sick, twisted bastard who's covered in dried blood, and it cakes and cracks all over his skin making it look like dried clay. Also, he molds his murdering tools out of clay.

So dark & gritty and Nolan's-realistic that I think I just shat myself.

Yeah, totally. And Mr. Freeze could be a guy got his name by murdering people, and then putting them in a freezer, and he wears a glass dome over his head, and Poison Ivy could just be a hot redhead who seduces men and kills them in their sleep, and the Joker could be a crazy guy with a "cut-smile" and paints his face and dies his hair.... oh wait...

[Warhammer]

F*** this realism bullcrap.
Maria.

:heart:

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i236/Aftermath6/maria-kanellis-10.jpg

[Monster]

:O

*drools*

[dark_b]

this girl is not realistic. she doesnt fit in nolans universe :o

[Monster]

But she's damn hot though.