The Realism Debate thread

[CaptainClown]

why not have Jason Todd be first and have him die then get grayson

[The Dark Guybrush]

NO ROBIN, plz thnx

[CaptainClown]

well not as Robin. If I did introduce a robin like character. I would have him be Bruce Waynes ward, and since Bruce is out most of the time and (for the sake of a name) Jason is in a huge mansion with nothing to do he would go out and spend money and basically get into fights. He would be trying to do his own little vigilantism just like being a rich punk then Batman sets him straight and then bam he is killed

[TheLongestDay]

i think robin could be done well,if written right and the tone was correct-alot of what puts people off about Robin is the costume lol.

In the comics the point has always been that Robin is the light in Batmans dark world,constantly keeping him back from the brink of insanity and stopping him from becoming one of the bad guys himself.

I know Nolan doesnt like the character-but hes also stated he just doesnt know how he would do it,maybe if he figured out a way it could be great.

All that said-my personal preference is loner a Batman...who doesnt kill

[CaptainClown]

ya I like loner Batman, but I wouldn't mind the aspect of him taking on an orphan because of a related incident. I just don't want him following batman around.

[TheLongestDay]

ya I like loner Batman, but I wouldn't mind the aspect of him taking on an orphan because of a related incident. I just don't want him following batman around.

unless he discoverd who bruce really was and began to idolize him and took it upon himself to follow in his footsteps without bruces consent, (because of the similarities between there tragedies) and ends up getting himself killed.

Itd be a harsh lesson for Bats

[LexCorp]

i think robin could be done well,if written right and the tone was correct-alot of what puts people off about Robin is the costume lol.

In the comics the point has always been that Robin is the light in Batmans dark world,constantly keeping him back from the brink of insanity and stopping him from becoming one of the bad guys himself.

I know Nolan doesnt like the character-but hes also stated he just doesnt know how he would do it,maybe if he figured out a way it could be great.

All that said-my personal preference is loner a Batman...who doesnt kill

That does scare me sometimes lol

[TheLongestDay]

its the pixie boots!

[CaptainClown]

ya, I think that would be a good story. He could sneak out at night and beat up kids mainly because he doesn't like them but he thinks he is doing right. Then like in one incident the joker stumbles upon him remembers its Bruce Waynes ward because he could have killed the kids parents. Then blah blah kid dies Wayne then turns from kind of charming playboy wayne to secluded wayne

[TheLongestDay]

ya, I think that would be a good story. He could sneak out at night and beat up kids mainly because he doesn't like them but he thinks he is doing right. Then like in one incident the joker stumbles upon him remembers its Bruce Waynes ward because he could have killed the kids parents. Then blah blah kid dies Wayne then turns from kind of charming playboy wayne to secluded wayne

i really like that idea:up:

[CaptainClown]

thanks, you helped with it. But I think that would be a better way to go with the boy wonder. Actually before the kid (I will name him Jason because I think that story fits perfect) dies, he should be caught by Batman and he explains you don't need to fight to stop crime. He then tells him about how he needs to try hard be a cop or a lawyer and do good blah blah. Then Jason would stop his little vigilantism and then just hang with his bestfriend Barbra Gordon (little tie in like it like it? hah) anyway then they both get kidnapped because its the Comissioners daughter and Bruce Waynes ward.

Then the kidnappers would decide to kill Barbra since the commissioner has nothing they want and they just want revenge Jason saves her and dies a hero. Then batman opens a can of whoopass and I guess starts the Jason Todd scholarship fund for orphaned kids to go to prestigious schools and blah blah blah. That is how you could get Tim Drake into Bruces life later. As for Dick uhhhhh

[TheLongestDay]

cool ideas,as far as dick goes-arent they using him in the Teen Titans movie? But as Nightwing?...i have no idea how thats going to work (unless its set in the future)

[CaptainClown]

I really have no idea. I think you should fuse Dick and Tim together to make Dim Drakson (shrug)

It would make sense to have an older Dick Grayson who takes on the Nightwing persona right from the start. But him and Bruce bump heads so much. Would be nice to see Dick head Wayne Tech when Bruce retires though. Well I should say "retires"

[Gotham]

cool ideas,as far as dick goes-arent they using him in the Teen Titans movie? But as Nightwing?...i have no idea how thats going to work (unless its set in the future)

From what I have been hearing and reading, Nightwing is a shoe in for the central character. He really is a more demented, bad-ass character that had his basis ruined by Batman & Robin. I am looking forward to the teaser poster, crew commenting, and production to begin! :yay:

[TheLongestDay]

i actually quite liked how they fused Jason Todd and Tim Drake in the animated series...but i also LOVE Jason as the Red Hood in the comics right now (filling up a kit bag with gangster heads and so on...hehe)

[CaptainClown]

Ya, I Jason Todd is my favorite just because there actually is some noticeable progress with the character. He also like most of Batmans Villains is the result of Batmans interference, which I like the idea of how whenever Bruce tries to do good it always turns out bad. Except in a few cases.

[TheLongestDay]

see that could work in a movie...the whole idea of escalation.

Jason could idolize Batman and become a copycat vigilante,and become progressively darker-and starts killing people

In the books he recently said to Bats "Im you,the you youre afraid to be-im doing what needs to be done"

Batman would then have to take him out and he would be partly responsible for Jasons actions

[TheLongestDay]

in fact the more i think about it,the more i could see Jason fitting into Nolans world-plus he doesnt have to be a teenager!

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/1262/redhood3hc.jpg
http://www.zonanegativa.com/imagen/2323.jpg
http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Countdown/Marts/47/countdown_46_t.jpg
http://www.ys3.org/blog/badass.jpg

[Gianakin_]

The thing on the train with Al-Ghul is still debatable.

"I don't have to save you", still comes back to, technically I'm killing you. If I see a villain about to be killed and dont' do ****, that's still me letting him die.

Considering the rumors we've heard of Batman having to save the Joker from Two-Face's wrath, I think that Nolan might have went for Bruce making a mistake on the train, acknowledging it and not repeating it again, thus maturing. It's pure speculation, but it's possible.

[Gianakin_]

if anything, i dont want another "nolan-zied" batman. after seeing begins, it was just too long, too much talking and not enough action.

I will not bash your right to disagree wit BB and what Nolan is doing.
But please, don't start any of your posts again by saying that you love all of the Bat-films, please. You start by stating that and you eventually contradict yourself big time in almost every post of yours.

[El Payaso]

In the comics the point has always been that Robin is the light in Batmans dark world,constantly keeping him back from the brink of insanity and stopping him from becoming one of the bad guys himself.


In Nolan's Batman world it seems that what helps Batman from becoming one of the bad guys is his own determination and conviction.

[MAKIEVELLI]

In Nolan's Batman world it seems that what helps Batman from becoming one of the bad guys is his own determination and conviction.

And Alfred......And Rachel

[MAKIEVELLI]

unless he discoverd who bruce really was and began to idolize him and took it upon himself to follow in his footsteps without bruces consent, (because of the similarities between there tragedies) and ends up getting himself killed.

Itd be a harsh lesson for Bats

I'd rather Nolan not do Robin than to bring him in and just have him killed or never have him become Robin.

[TheLongestDay]

I'd rather Nolan not do Robin than to bring him in and just have him killed or never have him become Robin.

but it would be a good way of explaining his absence in this franchise should they ever feel the need

[terry78]

Just bring in Maxie Zeus and end this debate.

[GoogleMe94]

the thing i am not likeing about nolans batman world is that it doesnt really leave anything open to the imagination. the past batman films had ALOT of imagination. ok, schumacher may have taken his imagination a bit too far, but nonetheless, they were great entertainment and fun to watch and look at. nolans world is too plain, too average, too ordinary. and that doesnt just go for gotham, it goes for every part of the film, including batman and his villians. its just, wheres the exciting apeal of it? theres nothing really exicting about nolans batman world, and thats what is bugging me. i sincerely hope that he steps it up in TDK and tries not to be too "deep". come one nolan, lets have some FUN!

[MAKIEVELLI]

the thing i am not likeing about nolans batman world is that it doesnt really leave anything open to the imagination. the past batman films had ALOT of imagination. ok, schumacher may have taken his imagination a bit too far, but nonetheless, they were great entertainment and fun to watch and look at. nolans world is too plain, too average, too ordinary. and that doesnt just go for gotham, it goes for every part of the film, including batman and his villians. its just, wheres the exciting apeal of it? theres nothing really exicting about nolans batman world, and thats what is bugging me. i sincerely hope that he steps it up in TDK and tries not to be too "deep". come one nolan, lets have some FUN!

The part that I love the most about the Nolan films is the realism aspect. I believe the Bruce Wayne is real, I actually believe with enough training and money this man could actually become the Batman. That's something I never believe in previous incarnations of the series.

[CaptainClown]

you could have a lot of imagination in the Nolan films he really didn't explore it. Look at the Prestige, just because it looks like a realistic atmosphere doesn't mean it isn't completely out of the question.

[SodaPop]

The part that I love the most about the Nolan films is the realism aspect. I believe the Bruce Wayne is real, I actually believe with enough training and money this man could actually become the Batman. That's something I never believe in previous incarnations of the series.
I agree with all of that. You feel like you could actually travel to gotham. Schumacher screwed up the series by making it unreal. Nolan is bringing it back by making it real.

[Rory gets laid]

The part that I love the most about the Nolan films is the realism aspect. I believe the Bruce Wayne is real, I actually believe with enough training and money this man could actually become the Batman. That's something I never believe in previous incarnations of the series.


Good call. Every bat-fan has their ideal interpretation of the legend, and mine happens to be rooted in the fact that a man like this COULD exist (not saying it's very bloody likely)...I think it's very smart of Nolan to root his interpretation in reality, so to speak, because it allows the audience to relate to the hero a little more.

Just my $0.02 (for now)

[TheLongestDay]

The part that I love the most about the Nolan films is the realism aspect. I believe the Bruce Wayne is real, I actually believe with enough training and money this man could actually become the Batman. That's something I never believe in previous incarnations of the series.

exactly,in fact when i visited Chicago shortly after BB came out,i could imagine Batman perched on the edge of a roof somewhere-simply because it was set more in the "real" world.

as entertaining as the burton films are,they always took place in some far off fantasy land that i just have never really related too thus never really got sucked into-Batman Begins totally drew me in and made me believe

[Mr. Socko]

the thing i am not likeing about nolans batman world is that it doesnt really leave anything open to the imagination. the past batman films had ALOT of imagination. ok, schumacher may have taken his imagination a bit too far, but nonetheless, they were great entertainment and fun to watch and look at. nolans world is too plain, too average, too ordinary. and that doesnt just go for gotham, it goes for every part of the film, including batman and his villians. its just, wheres the exciting apeal of it? theres nothing really exicting about nolans batman world, and thats what is bugging me. i sincerely hope that he steps it up in TDK and tries not to be too "deep". come one nolan, lets have some FUN!


Google, list a few things that you did like about Batman Begins. I'm curious

[CaptainClown]

he loved that its a batman film

[Gianakin_]

lol!

[Cyrusbales]

BB was an action movie, not a Batman movie...

[Bat-Mite]

BB was an action movie, not a Batman movie...Not a Batman movie? I'm guessing that you hate the comics then, since that depiction has been the most faithful to the character thus far. There also wasn't that much action in BB. There were a couple of fights at the beginning of the movie, him taking out Falcone, a car chase, and then the scene on the monorail.. but that was about it in terms of action. It was far more concerned with character development.

[Gianakin_]

BB was an action movie, not a Batman movie...

I respectfully disagree.

[The Dark Guybrush]

BB was an action movie, not a Batman movie...

wow..

this is probably one of the most ignorant things i've seen written in this forum.

[Cyrusbales]

Not a Batman movie? I'm guessing that you hate the comics then, since that depiction has been the most faithful to the character thus far. There also wasn't that much action in BB. There were a couple of fights at the beginning of the movie, him taking out Falcone, a car chase, and then the scene on the monorail.. but that was about it in terms of action. It was far more concerned with character development.

This argument of is so flawed, Batman has changed SO much since it's initial publication, It's very accurate to the batman comics of a certain era, the more recent one, where the fantasy element is missing. The batman comics it's based on are very much like any action comic really, a lot of comics imitated batman, then it seems this era imitates those, which leaves us with something stripped down and not as mythical.

It's not, "what's the batman?", it's "Why is this dude dressed as a bat?".

Any of the live action bat-films can be said to be the most accurate depending on which era and comics you look at.

[Gianakin_]

Any of the live action bat-films can be said to be the most accurate depending on which era and comics you look at.

Except for BB....?

[Cyrusbales]

Except for BB....?

Read the whole post, it's accurate to an era of batman comics that was rather heartles and lacked some of the essential batman elements for me.

[Gianakin_]

I see. Well, I stil respectfully disagree. But what can one do, eh?

[Cyrusbales]

I see. Well, I stil respectfully disagree. But what can one do, eh?

Sleep with santa's wife?

[Gianakin_]

Sleep with santa's wife?

Really? Have you given any thought to the consequences?

[Bat-Mite]

This argument of is so flawed, Batman has changed SO much since it's initial publication, It's very accurate to the batman comics of a certain era, the more recent one, where the fantasy element is missing.Someone hasn't been reading the Batman comics lately, unless they've suddenly become super realistic in the past year (the most recent one I've read is from a year ago). Considering that I was reading that Bat-Mite is being brought into one of the newer comics, I'd hardly say that the fantasy element is missing.. lol.

Seriously, you've got an army of ninjas hiding out in a Tibetan monastery, a car that fires missiles and jumps from rooftop to rooftop without falling into the buildings, a special scare gas that only works when vaporized by a microwave emitter, but doesn't work when someone's taking a shower or something like that. And then there's the little device that summons thousands of bats in just a few seconds... really, I could go on and on. If you still think a fantasy element is missing here, then I can only assume that you want Batman to be so fantastic as to bring the Schumacher style back.

The batman comics it's based on are very much like any action comic really, a lot of comics imitated batman, then it seems this era imitates those, which leaves us with something stripped down and not as mythical.

It's not, "what's the batman?", it's "Why is this dude dressed as a bat?".
Perhaps in your zeal to attack the movie, you neglected to actually pay attention to it? Falcone's men didn't say that a man dressed as a bat attacked them.. they were saying that it actually WAS a giant bat that attacked them. We already have a myth started that Batman is more bat than man, and the hallucinations of the people hit by the fear gas will just add to that. I wouldn't be surprised if it's mentioned in the next movie, even.

[Super_Ludacris]

For real when I saw Batman Begins, they were certain elements that reminded me of Miller, Loeb and Adams' work.

[breyfogle_rules]

It's very accurate to the batman comics of a certain era, the more recent one, where the fantasy element is missing.

Exactly.
Although I am definitely not a fan of any previous Bat film. And I rather enjoyed BB. But yes, missing that funhouse sort of psychedelia so important to the Batman mythos. It's a shame that Burton and the rest did it all wrong. Too syrupy.

I'm looking for something more balanced between the two styles, personally.

But anyway, really dug BB. :yay:

[Mr. Socko]

Seriously, you've got an army of ninjas hiding out in a Tibetan monastery, a car that fires missiles and jumps from rooftop to rooftop without falling into the buildings, a special scare gas that only works when vaporized by a microwave emitter, but doesn't work when someone's taking a shower or something like that. And then there's the little device that summons thousands of bats in just a few seconds... really, I could go on and on.


And every one of those things was done in a 'realistic' manner. Like Roger Ebert said, Batman Begins isn't a realistic movie, but it treats itself and it's content as if it were realistic.

[Porygon]

The word we shoud be using isn't realism, but credibility.

Using the words "realistic" to describe a comic book adaption is infuriating. Doesn't matter if the tumbler works in real life, it's still driven by a man dressed up as a bat who fights crime.

[breyfogle_rules]

Ha! Good last couple posts. Touche'

[Solidus]

You know the word realistic is thrown around a lot when it comes to BB lol.

But this is how I feel, BB is realistic, but realistic in the movie world. There is no such thing as a realistic movie, even ones based off of real events or people, Hollywood no matter what even with documentaries spices it up, cuts out the "reality" in anything. Saving Private Ryan was based off of real events and depicted WWII realisticaly but it was made with fictional characters.

To me there is no realistic in the terms that people are using in this thread. But as terms of Hollywood Realistic, yes I believe BB actually stays very grounded in it and thats why I loved it a lot. Though yes it is VERY unlikley that some man is going to dress up as a bat and fight ninja's, it is very very very improbable. But the way Nolan made it, it is not impossible. Most of the stuff in the movie is based in real technology and who knows if Bill Gates might run around dressed as something fighting people lol. But as I see it, Nolan made it believable, and not "impossible" feeling. In all the other Batman films I was like "Impossible." Half the stuff that happens in those four movies were.

But I think Nolan brought a gritty feel of realism, and no over the top stuff. Is it based in our real reality? To a point yes. But is is truly real life realistic? No. No movie is or ever will be.

[Porygon]

You know the word realistic is thrown around a lot when it comes to BB lol.

But this is how I feel, BB is realistic, but realistic in the movie world. There is no such thing as a realistic movie, even ones based off of real events or people, Hollywood no matter what even with documentaries spices it up, cuts out the "reality" in anything. Saving Private Ryan was based off of real events and depicted WWII realisticaly but it was made with fictional characters.

To me there is no realistic in the terms that people are using in this thread. But as terms of Hollywood Realistic, yes I believe BB actually stays very grounded in it and thats why I loved it a lot. Though yes it is VERY unlikley that some man is going to dress up as a bat and fight ninja's, it is very very very improbable. But the way Nolan made it, it is not impossible. Most of the stuff in the movie is based in real technology and who knows if Bill Gates might run around dressed as something fighting people lol. But as I see it, Nolan made it believable, and not "impossible" feeling. In all the other Batman films I was like "Impossible." Half the stuff that happens in those four movies were.

But I think Nolan brought a gritty feel of realism, and no over the top stuff. Is it based in our real reality? To a point yes. But is is truly real life realistic? No. No movie is or ever will be.Basically, in Batman Begins everything appears credible. But not necessarily realistic.

[breyfogle_rules]

Basically, in Batman Begins everything appears credible. But not necessarily realistic.

I see where you're going. But even 'credible' is a bit, hmmm.
How about "More-suspension-of-disbeliefability"?

What were some of the most unbelievable things to you guys?

Oddly, the microwave emitter theory was more plausible than one would think.

For me it was stuff like Bruce using one arm to bicep curl Liam Neesons entire body when he saved him on the cliff.

Also, climbing all the way to the top of the sears tower or whatever simply to sit there. How convenient is it to strike at crime from that vantage point? You are at the top of a skyscraper Bruce. The criminals are all on the first floor. I get that its good to have a vantage point, but when everyone looks like ants?

Little things, s'all.

[TheLongestDay]

I see where you're going. But even 'credible' is a bit, hmmm.
How about "More-suspension-of-disbeliefability"?

What were some of the most unbelievable things to you guys?

Oddly, the microwave emitter theory was more plausible than one would think.

For me it was stuff like Bruce using one arm to bicep curl Liam Neesons entire body when he saved him on the cliff.

Also, climbing all the way to the top of the sears tower or whatever simply to sit there. How convenient is it to strike at crime from that vantage point? You are at the top of a skyscraper Bruce. The criminals are all on the first floor. I get that its good to have a vantage point, but when everyone looks like ants?

Little things, s'all.

i like that...

and as for being on top of a skyscraper-maybe he was up there collecting his thoughts and planning his next move

[Gianakin_]

If the skycraper scene hadn't been there, many would be complaining about not enough iconic shots. They do even now, imagine if that scene never existed.

[Solidus]

I see where you're going. But even 'credible' is a bit, hmmm.
How about "More-suspension-of-disbeliefability"?

What were some of the most unbelievable things to you guys?

Oddly, the microwave emitter theory was more plausible than one would think.

For me it was stuff like Bruce using one arm to bicep curl Liam Neesons entire body when he saved him on the cliff.

Also, climbing all the way to the top of the sears tower or whatever simply to sit there. How convenient is it to strike at crime from that vantage point? You are at the top of a skyscraper Bruce. The criminals are all on the first floor. I get that its good to have a vantage point, but when everyone looks like ants?

Little things, s'all.

First with the arm curl, that stuff does happen. I mean the woman who lifts her car to save her child, and just things you read about all the time. When your adrinelane is pumping, man you can lift a lot more then you think. First he's buff to begin with, and add a lot of adrinelane and you something like that, that could possibly happen.

As for the climb, to me it was more symbolic and more emotional for him, not for looking for crooks. It was dawn, so he's done for the night, no more fighting crime for his first day. It was more symbolic where he is Gotham's new protector. And to me it was Bruce almost looking at the city he is going to save. It was more emotional then hunting crooks.

[TheLongestDay]

First with the arm curl, that stuff does happen. I mean the woman who lifts her car to save her child, and just things you read about all the time. When your adrinelane is pumping, man you can lift a lot more then you think. First he's buff to begin with, and add a lot of adrinelane and you something like that, that could possibly happen.

As for the climb, to me it was more symbolic and more emotional for him, not for looking for crooks. It was dawn, so he's done for the night, no more fighting crime for his first day. It was more symbolic where he is Gotham's new protector. And to me it was Bruce almost looking at the city he is going to save. It was more emotional then hunting crooks.

agreed on all points!:up::bat:

[A Dark Knight]

First with the arm curl, that stuff does happen. I mean the woman who lifts her car to save her child, and just things you read about all the time. When your adrinelane is pumping, man you can lift a lot more then you think. First he's buff to begin with, and add a lot of adrinelane and you something like that, that could possibly happen.

As for the climb, to me it was more symbolic and more emotional for him, not for looking for crooks. It was dawn, so he's done for the night, no more fighting crime for his first day. It was more symbolic where he is Gotham's new protector. And to me it was Bruce almost looking at the city he is going to save. It was more emotional then hunting crooks.

I agree, amazing things happen when the adrinelane is pumping. I agree again, Bruce had been fighting all night, he was looking over his city, and that was just a great symbolic shot in the film for the fans. :batty:

[Mr. Socko]

I liked the shot of him on the sears tower or whatever, but what I didn't like was how ridiculously long his cape was in that scene. The cape was hanging like 5 feet below his own feet.

[Samurai Pasta]

The Sears Tower? What the hell? That building was so much shorter than the Sears Tower.

[Solidus]

I liked the shot of him on the sears tower or whatever, but what I didn't like was how ridiculously long his cape was in that scene. The cape was hanging like 5 feet below his own feet.

Hmm I just re-watched it, and to me even though it's really dark, the cape seems normal length. We are talking about the scene after Gordon finds Falcone right?

The only scene where the cape looks long, is where he is looking for the drug drop off in the Narrows, but in that shot he is crouching.

[The Dark Guybrush]

i read somewhere that the costume designers used capes of different length, depending on the scene, for dramatic effect.

[TheLongestDay]

i read somewhere that the costume designers used capes of different length, depending on the scene, for dramatic effect.

and it worked IMO

[Cyrusbales]

BB sets upa world where we are supposed to belive what happens is actually possible, whilst highly unlikely. The scientific element and reductionism of everything down to the basic level, setting up the world as our own in terms of physics and suchlike, but with a few exceptional people and things, not impossible, just highly improbable.

Obviously the micro-emitter craps all over the set up.

[TheLongestDay]

BB sets upa world where we are supposed to belive what happens is actually possible, whilst highly unlikely. The scientific element and reductionism of everything down to the basic level, setting up the world as our own in terms of physics and suchlike, but with a few exceptional people and things, not impossible, just highly improbable.

Obviously the micro-emitter craps all over the set up.

I respectfully disagree

[Hole Shot]

I liked the shot of him on the sears tower or whatever, but what I didn't like was how ridiculously long his cape was in that scene. The cape was hanging like 5 feet below his own feet.


I noticed that too and just always assumed he's crouching since it's dark and he is a little hunched over.

[Rorschach II]

I thought the shot on the tower was a symbolic thing and more for imagery than anything else. Singer had a lot of "comic book" style images in Returns that weren't necessarily logical or precisely realistic but they looked cool. Nolan didn't have much of that, but that shot was one of them.

[breyfogle_rules]

I thought the shot on the tower was a symbolic thing and more for imagery than anything else. Singer had a lot of "comic book" style images in Returns that weren't necessarily logical or precisely realistic but they looked cool. Nolan didn't have much of that, but that shot was one of them.

Yeah, and thats fine. Bugs me only a bit. Anyway, its been explained that he is there meditating after a nights work. Case closed. But the fact of it being solely for imagery is what would bug me. Content is a two fold beast. Composition and content. Do I sound like I know what I'm talking about? Good. Cuz I don't. Art schmart. Whatever gets you off.

Anyway...it's just those UNQUALIFIED gratuitous scenes that bug me. Worst offender was B89 with the ship stopping in front of the moon and then dropping back to earth. Totally broke the third wall for me. Utter schlock.

[TheLongestDay]

Yeah, and thats fine. Bugs me only a bit. Anyway, its been explained that he is there meditating after a nights work. Case closed. But the fact of it being solely for imagery is what would bug me. Content is a two fold beast. Composition and content. Do I sound like I know what I'm talking about? Good. Cuz I don't. Art schmart. Whatever gets you off.

Anyway...it's just those UNQUALIFIED gratuitous scenes that bug me. Worst offender was B89 with the ship stopping in front of the moon and then dropping back to earth. Totally broke the third wall for me. Utter schlock.

its a double edged sword with shots like that,for instance the "action comics #1" shot was cool in superman returns-but also looked too obviously posed

[BubbaGump]

If the skycraper scene hadn't been there, many would be complaining about not enough iconic shots. They do even now, imagine if that scene never existed.

Think about all the iconic shots that never made it into the movie. Good thing we were able to salvage THAT one. :whatever:

[Gianakin_]

Think about all the iconic shots that never made it into the movie. Good thing we were able to salvage THAT one. :whatever:

Well, if you're being ironic to me, I'm not saying that the above was my opinion, I'm saying what people are and would have been saying.
I actually think that there were enough and well-placed iconic shots.

[CaptainClown]

the cool scenes in superman returns really still didn't save it for me, or even show a glimmering light of hope for the sequel if the director returns (his name eludes me at present)

[El Payaso]

If the skycraper scene hadn't been there, many would be complaining about not enough iconic shots. They do even now, imagine if that scene never existed.

That makes me think about the famous shot of Batman with spreaded wings coming down towards the camera (which made it as one of the posters of the movie indeed). The shot was great, iconic and all. Sadly the terrible editing practically made it unexistant in the movie. Less than half a second and the very frame that made it to the poister is not visible. :( I pray for Nolan realizing this.

[Mr. Socko]

This?


http://www.worldinprogress.org/wip/images/batman_begins.jpg

Used in posters:

http://v4.valkiria.net/skin/film/pic/misc_img/b_batman_begins.jpg


lol @ how Batman's cape obviously isn't that long when it's not rigid. Kinda like how Keaton's cape would magically suspend in the air stiffly.

[dark_b]

they used like 4 different capes. the same with superman.
its to make it more cool. not everythign is realistic. and nolan never said that it was.

[Mr. Socko]

they used like 4 different capes. the same with superman.
its to make it more cool. not everythign is realistic. and nolan never said that it was.


Most of us are quite aware of that.

[dark_b]

Most of us are quite aware of that.i didnt quote you. my post was for the 20% posters here who think that BB was realistic like some guys thinks that bourne was realistic.

[El Payaso]

This?


http://www.worldinprogress.org/wip/images/batman_begins.jpg

Used in posters:

http://v4.valkiria.net/skin/film/pic/misc_img/b_batman_begins.jpg


Exactly, that shot. Great picture and poster but wasn't like that in the actual movie at all. :(

lol @ how Batman's cape obviously isn't that long when it's not rigid. Kinda like how Keaton's cape would magically suspend in the air stiffly.

:( No lol man. It worked in both cases.

[TheLongestDay]

Hey Mr.Socko,sorry to go off topic but have you seen this?

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/34218

not much but sounds cool

[Mr. Socko]

Exactly, that shot. Great picture and poster but wasn't like that in the actual movie at all. :(


:( No lol man. It worked in both cases.

It does work there, but I didn't like it in one particular scene. Btw, what scene is that poster picture from? Is it when he crashes into Arkham? I can't remember exactly.

Hey Mr.Socko,sorry to go off topic but have you seen this?

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/34218

not much but sounds cool


I've heard about the Russian extra on Indy 4 but haven't seen that article, thanks. :up:

[Numez]

gee i don't know guys, with Batman apparently leaping off of cars we can't expect a realistic movie. :csad:

[Gianakin_]

So? Did you get disappointed?

[Numez]

i like that photo of Bale up there it should have been in the movie.

[Mr. Socko]

A quick reference, and I see, yes yes. It was indeed in the movie. It's when he jumps down the balcony in Arkham.

[The Dark Guybrush]

A quick reference, and I see, yes yes. It was indeed in the movie. It's when he jumps down the balcony in Arkham.

this is the truth. post production took out the roof scaffolding (that batman was wired to) and added a whole lot of CGI batness.

[Luchastyle]

i wonder if that leaked pic that has batman leaping down in a similar way onto a car will involve bats as well. some people might not like the idea of him doing the bat thing again, but it would still be cool.

[dark_b]

i wonder if that leaked pic that has batman leaping down in a similar way onto a car will involve bats as well. some people might not like the idea of him doing the bat thing again, but it would still be cool.there is a way to do it different. and IMO if there is a director that will do it different its nolan.

[Luchastyle]

indeed

[MAKIEVELLI]

I see where you're going. But even 'credible' is a bit, hmmm.
How about "More-suspension-of-disbeliefability"?

What were some of the most unbelievable things to you guys?

Oddly, the microwave emitter theory was more plausible than one would think.

For me it was stuff like Bruce using one arm to bicep curl Liam Neesons entire body when he saved him on the cliff.

Also, climbing all the way to the top of the sears tower or whatever simply to sit there. How convenient is it to strike at crime from that vantage point? You are at the top of a skyscraper Bruce. The criminals are all on the first floor. I get that its good to have a vantage point, but when everyone looks like ants?

Little things, s'all.

I think was trying to show how strong Bruce was. Batman is the greatest fighter in the world, right? It's little subtle showcases like that that really made me love BB all the more.

[Figs]

I think was trying to show how strong Bruce was. Batman is the greatest fighter in the world, right? It's little subtle showcases like that that really made me love BB all the more.

That and the whole adrenaline rush on top of him being extremely strong. I had no problem with that scene, especially after seeing the way Bale was making those breathless groans once he got Neeson up, like it took everything out of him and was pretty damn painful.

[DocLathropBrown]

I have a problem with realism to a point. When it starts intruding on the suspension of disbelief, then it bothers me.

In BB, it caused the film to explain everything in an in-my-face manner. But that was probably because of oyer's poor writing ability.

I don't think it's gonna happen on TDK.

[MAKIEVELLI]

I have a problem with realism to a point. When it starts intruding on the suspension of disbelief, then it bothers me.

In BB, it caused the film to explain everything in an in-my-face manner. But that was probably because of oyer's poor writing ability.

I don't think it's gonna happen on TDK.

How was the explaining "IN YOUR FACE?"

[The-Dark-Knight]

If you want realism dont watch a Batman Movie.

Peoplecan argueall they like till the fecking cow's come home that Batman Begins and Dark Knight are realistic, quite simply put there not.

They may be more realistic than say X Men, have realistic elements, but at the end of the day it'sstill a guy who dresses as a bat, drives a 'batmobile' solves crimes in a cave and fights a clown.

Nolan can strive to be realistic and fans can say how great it is, but its Batman, Batman as much as i love the character theres only so far you can go down the realistic route.

[Swordmaster]

How was the explaining "IN YOUR FACE?"
I hope Doc doesn't mind my explaining, but the way they (Goyer) told you everything about everything would do it. This is not just the Batsuit, but the motivations behind almost every character were stated in EXPLICIT detail. Now, I'm as big a fan of the monologue as much as the next guy, but I would like there to be a little "Detective work" done on the part of the viewers.

Ra's/Ducard's is a great example. One of the highlights of the script.

[TNC9852002]

Bruce Wayne has that kind of,....peak Olympic-level comic booky type of strength that I think the movie was trying to show off. I bet in a life and death situation, a similar man may have been able to lift someone with one arm like that...ya know...Sort of.

Like they say, Bruce's anger gives him strength. I guess he taps into that when he wants to kick **** up.

-TNC

[BubbaGump]

How was the explaining "IN YOUR FACE?"

"When the pressure reaches us, the whole place...is gonna BLOW!"

[DocLathropBrown]

"When the pressure reaches us, the whole place...is gonna BLOW!"

Three or four occurances of that one in less than 20 minutes, no less.

[Gianakin_]

Yeah, that particular part was a bit much and degraded the flow of the battle.

[Mr. Socko]

In casting Batman Begins, as with all other aspects of the production, director Christopher Nolan strived to create an epic feel that underscores the film's realism.

Following Nolan's mantra of realism, it was important that every aspect of the Batmobile have a clear purpose

"Chris really wanted the chase to have a loose, raw feel, something somewhere between a modern-day action-chase sequence with all the technology that we use today and something with the raw, gritty feeling of The French Connection," says director of photography Wally Pfister

It was important to Nolan that every piece of Batman's arsenal have a clear and practical purpose. In the film, Bruce Wayne takes a gritty, do-it-yourself approach to developing his tools.

The director also wanted the combat to be more jarring and realistic than graceful "We wanted the fighting to be as realistic as possible."

Nolan's thorough, meticulous approach ensured a consistency of his vision for the film, in which realism underscores every aspect of the ambitious production, from design to stunts to special effects.

Filming at Cardington gave the film a level of realism.

Director Christopher Nolan and fight arranger David Forman (The Last Samurai) were looking to find a style that marries the gritty intensity of street fighting with a disciplined martial arts approach.


A few excerpts of the production notes from the official Batman Begins website.

[LexCorp]

In casting Batman Begins, as with all other aspects of the production, director Christopher Nolan strived to create an epic feel that underscores the film's realism.

Following Nolan's mantra of realism, it was important that every aspect of the Batmobile have a clear purpose

"Chris really wanted the chase to have a loose, raw feel, something somewhere between a modern-day action-chase sequence with all the technology that we use today and something with the raw, gritty feeling of The French Connection," says director of photography Wally Pfister

It was important to Nolan that every piece of Batman's arsenal have a clear and practical purpose. In the film, Bruce Wayne takes a gritty, do-it-yourself approach to developing his tools.

The director also wanted the combat to be more jarring and realistic than graceful "We wanted the fighting to be as realistic as possible."

Nolan's thorough, meticulous approach ensured a consistency of his vision for the film, in which realism underscores every aspect of the ambitious production, from design to stunts to special effects.

Filming at Cardington gave the film a level of realism.

Director Christopher Nolan and fight arranger David Forman (The Last Samurai) were looking to find a style that marries the gritty intensity of street fighting with a disciplined martial arts approach.


A few excerpts of the production notes from the official Batman Begins website.

Cool

I agree with it. The Realism in this movie beats any other Batman version I have seen.

[Mercurius]

We find realism in Italian filmmaking of the 1950 decade. Batman is fantasy. And a really nice chunk of it.