The New Official Aquaman Thread

[warren_sparta27]

i couldnt see a thread about this already.
does anyone know who aquaman is oyl? is it Arthur Curry?
the preview i've seen of it looks great :)

[TheCorpulent1]

The guy in the preview is called Arthur Curry. I don't know what that means, really, but Busiek said the current Aquaman will appear in the series again at some point. I hope the new guy isn't just the pre-Crisis Arthur or something.

[Darth Wolverine]

It could just mean, by 'new character', that he has changed personality-wise. They do that a lot.

[TheCorpulent1]

I guess that could be what Busiek meant when he said that the original would show up at some point. Amnesia's so lame, though...

[Anubis]

I think he made a clone of himself from his severed hand using the magic from his new water hand. (If you recall the end last issue of Aquaman.)

[TheCorpulent1]

Hmm, that's a possibility. I was wondering what Aquaman's visiting his hand in that issue was all about. Geist could probably have helped him whip up a clone in no time, too.

[Anubis]

Too bad Geist is dead.

[TheCorpulent1]

Geist's research is still in Sub Diego and Aquaman's not entirely stupid.

[Anubis]

Is he smart enough to make a clone of himself using super science?

[TheCorpulent1]

Maybe. Stranger things have happened in comics. He could've had help from someone else or used it in conjunction with his magic hand's healing properties.

[Anubis]

hmm seriously though, I think the new AC in Aquaman has a lot to do with that hand. Either that or his son who found his way to the regular DCU from an alternate universe where he didn't get killed.

[TheCorpulent1]

There's something I've been wondering: how many kids has Aquaman lost in the current continuity? I know Koryak just died, so that's one. I remember another son dying because of Black Manta, I think, so that's two. Did he also lose a kid when he lost his hand to Charybdis, or am I just getting things confused?

[Anubis]

I thought he lost the kid when he lost the hand and Manta had something to do with it.

[TheCorpulent1]

No, I'm 100% sure Charybdis is the one who took his hand because it's pretty memorable. He didn't intend for Aquaman to lose his hand; he was sure Aquaman would call the piranha off telepathically, unaware that Aquaman couldn't actually force marine animals to do things, just ask or coerce them. I don't remember if there was another plot with Black Manta and Aquaman's kid involved, though.

[Hush]

Is Garth not his kid?

[Anubis]

No, but I think he adopted him or something.

[Anubis]

No, I'm 100% sure Charybdis is the one who took his hand because it's pretty memorable. He didn't intend for Aquaman to lose his hand; he was sure Aquaman would call the piranha off telepathically, unaware that Aquaman couldn't actually force marine animals to do things, just ask or coerce them. I don't remember if there was another plot with Black Manta and Aquaman's kid involved, though.

Well, we know Manta killed his kid, and apparently this Charybdis took his hand, so I would assume that the only time he lost a kid (Besides Koryak) was during the Manta thing.

[TheCorpulent1]

No, but I think he adopted him or something.
I don't think he officially adopted him under any law, either Atlantean or American or whatever, but he and Garth have had a big brother/little brother relationship for a long time. Garth was abandoned by his people at a young age, just like Orin was (only in Garth's case it was for having purple eyes instead of fair hair). They've been buds ever since, although their relationship since Garth changed his name to Tempest became a lot more competitive than it was before.

[GoldenAgeHero]

heh didnt aquamna kill manta in the last issue. that was so sweet. hey have you guys also notcied that catwoman(killed black mask),batman(killed or severely injured todd),aquaman(killed manta),and womderowman(killed max lord) had to kill someone before the oyl jump.

[TheCorpulent1]

Whether Aquaman killed Black Manta is left as ambiguous as whether Batman killed Jason Todd. My guess is that he didn't.

[Anubis]

Bats didn't kill Jason todd. Or even try to. He cut him, but he didn't kill him.

[TheCorpulent1]

A cut to the throat is life-threatening no matter how careful you are. I don't think Batman killed Jason either, but my point was that it's still ambiguous about whether Aquaman killed Black Manta.

[King_Mungi]

I have to agree with the majority this Aquaman is probally connected to Arthur's skelton hand. Would be nice if he was Arthur jr, but his death added a great deal depth to Aquaman.

[TheCorpulent1]

Haha, Anubis and I are the majority. :D

[GoldenAgeHero]

A cut to the throat is life-threatening no matter how careful you are. I don't think Batman killed Jason either, but my point was that it's still ambiguous about whether Aquaman killed Black Manta.


what do you mean, the sharks were eating him. i doubt they were giving him hugs and kisses.

[TheCorpulent1]

what do you mean, the sharks were eating him. i doubt they were giving him hugs and kisses.
Actually, the animals were all crowding around him when Aquaman turned his back. There's no blood or anything.

[Anubis]

Leaving someone to die isn't the same as killing them. He didn't tell the Sharks to do it, they did it on there own. He didn't tell them to stop.


Besides, no body no death. You've been reading comics long enough to know that.

[Xan-El]

The new Aquaman looks awesome!

[The Flash!]

Aquaman OYL certainly interests me, I'm def picking it up. :up:

[warren_sparta27]

Aquaman OYL certainly interests me, I'm def picking it up. :up:

same, the artwork looks excellent :)

[Antitang]

Why is the name going to be changed to Aquaman Sword of Atlantis?

[TheCorpulent1]

Because the new series has something to do with a sword. Which, coincidentally, is actually made from the tusk of a narwhal, since any kind of metal would rust underwater. Things like that make me love Busiek all the more. :)

[Anubis]

WTF is a narwhal?

[yenaled]

a whale with a massive spike on it's nose.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/04/images/040413_narwhalwhalesuse.jpg

and they have fights.

http://members.aol.com/blossom144/narwhal1.jpg

[GoldenAgeHero]

damn, nature has its ways of evolution.

[Anubis]

Ugly water mammal.

[TheCorpulent1]

Not all of them were as lucky as Flipper. :(

[King_Mungi]

Haha, Anubis and I are the majority. :D

Quite you, take it as a compliament :P

Because the new series has something to do with a sword. Which, coincidentally, is actually made from the tusk of a narwhal, since any kind of metal would rust underwater. Things like that make me love Busiek all the more. :)

Really? where did you hear this? I tried to limit the amount of interviews I read just so I'm not completly spoiled.

[TheCorpulent1]

I got it off of this Aquaman fansite (http://www.eskimo.com/~tegan/aqua/swordofatlantis.html) (in the "Tidbits" section all the way at the bottom), but apparently it's originally from Busiek's post on the official Conan message board (http://www.conan.com/invboard/index.php?showtopic=2452&view=findpost&p=35681).
What about the sword, wouldn't it rust? From Kurt:

"Look closely at Aquaman's sword in that promo piece, and you'll see it's actually a sharpened narwhal's horn, since steel is hard to make underwater."

[hippie_hunter]

I already miss the old Aquaman, he was my favorite superhero :(

It was good but not great, but since this was an introductory issue, I'll still give it hope that it will get better as time goes on.

[GoldenAgeHero]

i really liked this issue. it explained where this new arthur curry came from. unlike you hippie, i can care less about the old arthur. this issue alone is better then the old series before the IC tie in.

[hippie_hunter]

i really liked this issue. it explained where this new arthur curry came from. unlike you hippie, i can care less about the old arthur. this issue alone is better then the old series before the IC tie in.

:mad:

[GoldenAgeHero]

:mad:


*hugs hippie* in due time you would love this arthur more.

[hippie_hunter]

*hugs hippie* in due time you would love this arthur more.

Never!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

Now if you excuse me I'll be on my way acting like the Hal Jordan fans did when he got replaced by Kyle Rayner. :o

[TheCorpulent1]

What did you think of the Dweller in the Depths/new Arthur conundrum, hippie? My current theory is that the Dweller in the Depths and the new Arthur are both the real Aquaman, split into two halves by sorcery or the Crisis or something. The Dweller in the Depths got all the mystical mumbo-jumbo like the water hand and the confusing visions/flashbacks while the new Arthur is more human.

[hippie_hunter]

What did you think of the Dweller in the Depths/new Arthur conundrum, hippie? My current theory is that the Dweller in the Depths and the new Arthur are both the real Aquaman, split into two halves by sorcery or the Crisis or something. The Dweller in the Depths got all the mystical mumbo-jumbo like the water hand and the confusing visions/flashbacks while the new Arthur is more human.

I like it, it just doesn't have me excited for Aquaman like the Sub-Diego arcs did. Personally I think that the new Aquaman has some connection to Orin's skeleton hand that was smoking in Aquaman #39.

[TheCorpulent1]

Oh yeah, Leaguer mentioned something like that. The new Arthur (whom I'll henceforth refer to as "Artie" to distinguish him now) could be a clone of Aquaman. His dad did mention Geist in one of the flashbacks, and we all know Geist had quite a fascination with Aquaman's Atlantean genes.

[onceasaint]

Leaving someone to die isn't the same as killing them. He didn't tell the Sharks to do it, they did it on there own. He didn't tell them to stop.


Besides, no body no death. You've been reading comics long enough to know that.

Sharks: They Only Eat You When You Touch Their Private Parts ...or Aquaman Doesnt Call Them Off.

[Xan-El]

What did you think of the Dweller in the Depths/new Arthur conundrum, hippie? My current theory is that the Dweller in the Depths and the new Arthur are both the real Aquaman, split into two halves by sorcery or the Crisis or something. The Dweller in the Depths got all the mystical mumbo-jumbo like the water hand and the confusing visions/flashbacks while the new Arthur is more human.

Exactly! Thats what I thought. I know for sure that the Dweller is the old Aquaman. They bascially gave it away at the end.

[GoldenAgeHero]

Exactly! Thats what I thought. I know for sure that the Dweller is the old Aquaman. They bascially gave it away at the end.

if that is him wtf happened to his face?

[hippie_hunter]

if that is him wtf happened to his face?

It is him. The end completely gave it away. The hand is a complete give away and the last bit that he writes down in his writings show that also. He probally doesn't even remember being Aquaman and maybe the prophecy he is seeing is really his own memories. Hence why he feels like he himself has been through it before, yet can't quite put a finger on it.

[GoldenAgeHero]

but wtf happened to is face then?

[hippie_hunter]

I dunno, maybe it's a magical disguise. Or maybe someone put a spell on him to make him look fugly

[warren_sparta27]

just picked up this weeks comics, aquaman was...very good, the new aquaman looks great, and the old one, with the fulgy face is pretty cool. will keep getting this title :)

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't think the Dweller automatically has to be Orin. We know very little about the Lady of the Lake and the Waterbearer. The Dweller could just be another Waterbearer, blessed with the same power that the Lady of the Lake gave Orin.

[rnewbz]

Full orgin story, don't know if this is new, but i have'nt seen it.
source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquaman

OYL Aquaman
More recently the Aquaman character has undergone a new change in origins. While the modern Aquaman has mysteriously disappeared, presumably during the Infinite Crisis, a new lad, called Arthur Joseph Curry, has come to the remains of the undersea empire of Atlantis. Son of Philip and Elaine Curry, two oceanobiologist who were researching in Avalon Bay marine and amphibian biology, was born three months premature. Her mother dead in childbirth, his father used a mutagenic serum to grew the little Arthur gills, permitting him to survive even without fully developed lungs, giving him in the process the same complete adaptament to undersea life of a true Atlantean. So Arthur lived most of his life in a special insulated water tank, his only contact with the outside world a TV set, growing fond of the superheroes. During a storm the special tank in which he was transported broke, and he was unleashed into the sea. Contacted by the mysterious Dweller in the Depths, he helped the King Shark, and delivered him to the mysterious wizard, who profetized him his new life... a mixture of the Golden Age Aquaman and the Modern Age one, in which, as a King in Atlantis aided by his two new friends, he will marry a reimaginated version of Mera, lost his son, be stricken by the Koryax Curse, and eventually be the hero the current Aquaman was. As a further matter of confusion, if the mysterious Dweller, a powerful wizard, remembers the Golden Age Aquaman as a tale of "long long ago", the King Shark still bears the scars of a previous battle with the Modern Age Aquaman, but these incongruencies were supposed to be explored during the Crisis.

[Anubis]

.....what?

[GoldenAgeHero]

.....what?

he summarized the aquamn OYL issue.

[Anubis]

I know, but still......what?

[rnewbz]

it's the full orgin of the new aquaman, I was'nt sure if it had been seen yet, because i heard alot of people of were wondering about who the new aquaman might really be.

[Anubis]

So like, this takes place in the future or something?

[Darth Wolverine]

Yeah...one year later.

[Anubis]

.......funny.

[Darth Wolverine]

Sorry, couldn't resist. :D

[GoldenAgeHero]

lmao.

[TheCorpulent1]

Someone should really proofread that Wikipedia article. I particularly liked "adaptament."

[warren_sparta27]

anyone else noticed, on the page, the top pannel, where King Shark and Arthur are sitting down eating, there is a face beneath them....?

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, it's a statue. They're in the ruins of Atlantis, apparently.

[warren_sparta27]

ok, thanks for that, :)

[LinternaVerde]

this arthur curry is aquaman, orin... but he doesn't remember a thing... not telling who is friend or a foe...

[Antitang]

Why does Nanaue not like Aquaman?

[yenaled]

In IC #4 he speared him through the chest.

[Antitang]

In IC #4 he speared him through the chest.

Aquaman speared Nanaue?

[hippie_hunter]

Yes, Orin was the one who created that huge scar on King Shark's chest.

[Antitang]

Yes, Orin was the one who created that huge scar on King Shark's chest.

Ahhh thus it cannot be healed?

[hippie_hunter]

I don't know why it can't be healed.

[TheCorpulent1]

It has healed. :confused: Scars just take a very, very long time to fade away. More than a year for an injury that severe.

[Kal-El 8]

Full orgin story, don't know if this is new, but i have'nt seen it.
source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquaman

OYL Aquaman
More recently the Aquaman character has undergone a new change in origins. While the modern Aquaman has mysteriously disappeared, presumably during the Infinite Crisis, a new lad, called Arthur Joseph Curry, has come to the remains of the undersea empire of Atlantis. Son of Philip and Elaine Curry, two oceanobiologist who were researching in Avalon Bay marine and amphibian biology, was born three months premature. Her mother dead in childbirth, his father used a mutagenic serum to grew the little Arthur gills, permitting him to survive even without fully developed lungs, giving him in the process the same complete adaptament to undersea life of a true Atlantean. So Arthur lived most of his life in a special insulated water tank, his only contact with the outside world a TV set, growing fond of the superheroes. During a storm the special tank in which he was transported broke, and he was unleashed into the sea. Contacted by the mysterious Dweller in the Depths, he helped the King Shark, and delivered him to the mysterious wizard, who profetized him his new life... a mixture of the Golden Age Aquaman and the Modern Age one, in which, as a King in Atlantis aided by his two new friends, he will marry a reimaginated version of Mera, lost his son, be stricken by the Koryax Curse, and eventually be the hero the current Aquaman was. As a further matter of confusion, if the mysterious Dweller, a powerful wizard, remembers the Golden Age Aquaman as a tale of "long long ago", the King Shark still bears the scars of a previous battle with the Modern Age Aquaman, but these incongruencies were supposed to be explored during the Crisis.

WHAT ?????, So do this mean this Aquaman/Arthur Curry will relive the pain & Suffering the other Aquaman had to live thought,

(1) The lost of his arm

(2) The lost of his son again

(3) Mera going nuts again ?

etc .....

:eek: WTF, I thought this new series of Aquaman was to give Arthur a new start .

[TheCorpulent1]

I doubt Busiek is just going to have the newbie run through a laundry list of stuff that's already happened to Aquaman...

[Kal-El 8]

I doubt Busiek is just going to have the newbie run through a laundry list of stuff that's already happened to Aquaman...

I hope your right.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a9/Aquaman33cover.jpg
I would love to see Mera as Arthur's wife & soulmate, and not have her turn into a Wackjob again.

Before lossing her child , Mera had a great potential to become a great character . I speak for myself, When I say When Arthur meet Mera, he was happy, and it seemed after they got married they were going to be a happy couple. So When I read the issue of The trauma of losing their son at the hands of Black Manta , I was piss-off that she turned into a wack job & left Arthur when he need her the most .

[Antitang]

It has healed. :confused: Scars just take a very, very long time to fade away. More than a year for an injury that severe.

That is not what we mean. The guy with the braids was trying to heal the inside of his body as well as the scar with magic and it couldn't be healed. Time is not what we were talking about.

[TheCorpulent1]

Oh yeah. That was odd.

[Blomberg]

Busiek has pretty much confirmed that Squid Guy is our Aquaman over on the DC Boards. The question is when we find out what happened. I'm already hoping by next issue the new guy's gone.

[Antitang]

Busiek has pretty much confirmed that Squid Guy is our Aquaman over on the DC Boards. The question is when we find out what happened. I'm already hoping by next issue the new guy's gone.

New guy meaning the guy with the braids?

[TheCorpulent1]

Busiek has pretty much confirmed that Squid Guy is our Aquaman over on the DC Boards. The question is when we find out what happened. I'm already hoping by next issue the new guy's gone.
Could you provide a link to that, please? I'd like to read what Busiek said.

[Ultimate_Superman]

I have a feeling this new Aquaman will turn out to be more like Smallville's AC

[Anubis]

How did you come to that conclusion? Does he obsesivly use the word "Bru"?

[TheCorpulent1]

How did you come to that conclusion? Does he obsesivly use the word "Bru"?
You mean "bro"? :confused: The new not-quite-Aquaman series Mercy Reef is supposed to feature some regular human schmoe who was altered to breathe underwater, similar to the new Aquaman wannabe. Maybe that's where he's getting it from.

[Anubis]

Actually, I mean Bru as in what AC from Smallville kept saying rather than saying Bro, which is annoying as hell in and of itself.

[Blue_Beetle]

Can't wait for issue #41.

[Blomberg]

Could you provide a link to that, please? I'd like to read what Busiek said.

http://dcboards.warnerbros.com/web/thread.jspa?forumID=29209028&threadID=2000065730&messageID=2001979700#2001979700

Here you go. It's about 5 posts down. There is a slight spoiler in there, nothing major, but still worth mentioning.

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't see any direct reference from Busiek that the Dweller is actually the real Aquaman. All he mentions is that Lorena knows what happened to Orin. :confused:

[Blomberg]

I took it in context that he was responding to the poster directly above him, who asks the question. It is kind of ambigous.

Still, without Busiek's confirmation I still think it's pretty clear that that is Orin. The water hand and the last line are solid hints And, to use a legal metaphor, the quote I linked to, if not witness testimony, is at least circumstantial evidence .

[hippie_hunter]

I don't see any direct reference from Busiek that the Dweller is actually the real Aquaman. All he mentions is that Lorena knows what happened to Orin. :confused:

At least we know that Lorena won't be forgotten.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, I'm excited for Lorena's reappearance now that I know she'll be back. See, this is what I love about Busiek. He is without a doubt one of the very best at taking all these disparate elements from characters' pasts and weaving them together into a cohesive story.
I took it in context that he was responding to the poster directly above him, who asks the question. It is kind of ambigous.

Still, without Busiek's confirmation I still think it's pretty clear that that is Orin. The water hand and the last line are solid hints And, to use a legal metaphor, the quote I linked to, if not witness testimony, is at least circumstantial evidence .
It seems likely, but there's always the possibility that the Dweller is just some senile previous Waterbearer or something. It's comics. Anything can happen, especially when someone like Busiek is writing.

[Blomberg]

Can there be two Waterbearers? I didn't read Veitch's run so I have no clue. I just assumed it was a role one held untill death.

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't think there was ever any stipulation that Orin was the only Waterbearer in history or anything. The fact that the Thirst is millennia old seems to indicate that there have been others.

[Emrys]

It's probably gonna be like that:

Dweller is Orin, his prophecies are actually his memories or his memories mixed with real prophecies.

Arthur and here it get interesting, is probably earth 2 aquaman. The golden age one who's orgin was pretty much like the one mentioned in aquaman #40. In that case it's brilliant imho. With earth 2 folding into the current reality thanks to iinfinite crisis this could lead to excellent story possibilities.

[TheCorpulent1]

Ugh, I really don't want to see a return to multiple incarnations of characters co-existing. :(

[Blomberg]

probably beating a dead horse here, but confimred PROOF that the Dweller is Arthur from the Busiek himself that is much better than my last example:

> Is the Dweller of the Depths, Orin?

I thought that last panel was a pretty dead giveaway, but you guys been readin' too many X-Men books with fake-out plots...

http://dcboards.warnerbros.com/web/thread.jspa?threadID=2000054450&start=570&tstart=0

[ToddIsDead]

What did everyone think of the issue? I might pick it up when I go to the comic book store later this week, and I'd like to see some opinions.

[TheCorpulent1]

probably beating a dead horse here, but confimred PROOF that the Dweller is Arthur from the Busiek himself that is much better than my last example:

> Is the Dweller of the Depths, Orin?

I thought that last panel was a pretty dead giveaway, but you guys been readin' too many X-Men books with fake-out plots...

http://dcboards.warnerbros.com/web/thread.jspa?threadID=2000054450&start=570&tstart=0
That's pretty ****ing lame, actually. I really don't want to see Orin reduced to some blathering old moron who follows the new guy around like a lost puppy. :o

[droogiedroogie2]

Unless he's played by Morgan Freeman, who makes that role work every time.

[fifthfiend]

Actually, I mean Bru as in what AC from Smallville kept saying rather than saying Bro, which is annoying as hell in and of itself.

Could be worse.

It coulda been "Breh":up:

Oh 2 Fast 2 Furious, what a ****ty, ****ty movie you were.

[droogiedroogie2]

I'm not your brah.

[Antitang]

What did everyone think of the issue? I might pick it up when I go to the comic book store later this week, and I'd like to see some opinions.

Yeah definatly one to pick up. I can see this book turning out really good.

[Kal-El 8]

Look's Like The new AQUAMAN has met Mera.

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/4153/aquamanswordofatlantis417qo.jpg

AQUAMAN: SWORD OF ATLANTIS #41

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, Pacheco's variant cover looks good. I'll probably get that one instead of Guice's. Guice kind of screwed the pooch on Mera's face. She looks like a 50-year-old bulldog.

http://www.dccomics.com/media/covers/5082_400x600.jpg

[hippie_hunter]

I can't beleive that an Aquaman book is going to get a second printing :eek:

http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=63198

Oh happy days!! :up:

[TheCorpulent1]

Hell yeah. :up: Now if it can only sustain those numbers...

[Kal-El 8]

Yeah, Pacheco's variant cover looks good. I'll probably get that one instead of Guice's. Guice kind of screwed the pooch on Mera's face. She looks like a 50-year-old bulldog.

http://www.dccomics.com/media/covers/5082_400x600.jpg
Now let hope this Version of Mera doesn't turn into a wack job like the other one.

[TheCorpulent1]

No different version, as far as I know. That's the same Mera as always. She's supposed to be leading a band of Atlantean refugees, and I think Lorena might be with her.

[Kal-El 8]

No different version, as far as I know. That's the same Mera as always. She's supposed to be leading a band of Atlantean refugees, and I think Lorena might be with her.

So she going to fall in love with Arthur again, She'll become The Queen Of Atlantis, Their going to have a son again, & he's going to die @ The hands of Black Manta, Mera will the leave Arthur when he needs her most. And turn into a wack Job .

Is this what your telling me?

Because if that's the case, I'm done Aquaman : OYL .

[TheCorpulent1]

What the hell are you talking about? The OYL story isn't just going to be a rehash of past Aquaman continuity with the new guy in place of Orin. The Dweller's "prophecy" was just his own memories, since Busiek has now confirmed that he's the original Aquaman. Plus, King Shark remembers everything that's happened in continuity. The original Aquaman's life has happened already; the new guy gets to have his own.

[Kal-El 8]

What the hell are you talking about? The OYL story isn't just going to be a rehash of past Aquaman continuity with the new guy in place of Orin. The Dweller's "prophecy" was just his own memories, since Busiek has now confirmed that he's the original Aquaman. Plus, King Shark remembers everything that's happened in continuity. The original Aquaman's life has happened already; the new guy gets to have his own.

Good.

[Th'Dude]

I would have preferred it if the Dweller had been that evil sorcerer dude that was imprisoned before the Specter f'ed up Atlantis. Somehow he ended up with the Waterbearer Bracelet which had absorbed Arthur's memories. That would in part explain why he looked fugly. I'm gonna go live the pipe dream that Busiek is just trying to mislead us.

Oh, and Arthur only had 2 sons. Arthur Jr., the one Black Manta killed and Koryak. There was this alternate evil version of Aquaman in a dimension where Mera was for a while; Thanatos was his name, I think. Mera and Thanatos had a kid, but when he crossed over to our dimension he started aging rapidly and had to be returned to the other dimension. Right now I'm a bit confused if it was Thanatos' kid or Arthurs'. Garth was never his son, not even through adoption.

[TheCorpulent1]

I would have preferred it if the Dweller had been that evil sorcerer dude that was imprisoned before the Specter f'ed up Atlantis. Somehow he ended up with the Waterbearer Bracelet which had absorbed Arthur's memories. That would in part explain why he looked fugly. I'm gonna go live the pipe dream that Busiek is just trying to mislead us.
I'd prefer that scenario myself. Then the Orin I remember could still be out there somewhere nursing his stump with amnesia.

[Th'Dude]

I always thought that Orin's disappearance and then comeback was going to be something grander. This all seem very "in with a bang, out with a whimper" to me. :(

[hippie_hunter]

I would have preferred it if the Dweller had been that evil sorcerer dude that was imprisoned before the Specter f'ed up Atlantis. Somehow he ended up with the Waterbearer Bracelet which had absorbed Arthur's memories. That would in part explain why he looked fugly. I'm gonna go live the pipe dream that Busiek is just trying to mislead us.

Oh, and Arthur only had 2 sons. Arthur Jr., the one Black Manta killed and Koryak. There was this alternate evil version of Aquaman in a dimension where Mera was for a while; Thanatos was his name, I think. Mera and Thanatos had a kid, but when he crossed over to our dimension he started aging rapidly and had to be returned to the other dimension. Right now I'm a bit confused if it was Thanatos' kid or Arthurs'. Garth was never his son, not even through adoption.

Aquaman also adopted Garth.

[TheCorpulent1]

I always thought that Orin's disappearance and then comeback was going to be something grander. This all seem very "in with a bang, out with a whimper" to me. :(
I like the little I've seen of the OYL stuff so far, I just don't want Orin to have been transformed into some squid-headed, addle-brained, half-insane weirdo.

[Th'Dude]

Aquaman also adopted Garth.

Really? Was it mentioned in Titans, oh TT guru? 'CAuse I've never seen it mentioned in his own title or the Tempest mini.


tt guru....*snicker**snort*

[hippie_hunter]

Really? Was it mentioned in Titans, oh TT guru? 'CAuse I've never seen it mentioned in his own title or the Tempest mini.


tt guru....*snicker**snort*

In the Obsidian Age, Aquaman called Garth his son and Tempest assumed the throne of a non-existant Atlantis in Aquaman's absence.

[Th'Dude]

In the Obsidian Age, Aquaman called Garth his son and Tempest assumed the throne of a non-existant Atlantis in Aquaman's absence.

Oh-kay.....ummm, I don't take that as adoption; but that's just IMO.

TheCorpulent1-

I didn't mean the "new" series being a let down, but rather what they did with Orin. The finale was spectacular, I expected a very powerful reason for him to be MIA for a while and come back with a whole new kingdom with all the different Atlantean cultures together or something heavy like that. I didn't expect him to be a deformed half crazed squid fritter thing. To quote a dying hero: "Not like this, not like this.":(

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, he's regarded Garth as his son or younger brother for like forever and a day. You don't need official adoption papers from a government to adopt someone.
I didn't mean the "new" series being a let down, but rather what they did with Orin. The finale was spectacular, I expected a very powerful reason for him to be MIA for a while and come back with a whole new kingdom with all the different Atlantean cultures together or something heavy like that. I didn't expect him to be a deformed half crazed squid fritter thing. To quote a dying hero: "Not like this, not like this."
Well, it's still early yet. I suggested a while ago that the Dweller may have just been a previous Waterbearer who still has the hand, or maybe part of Orin that got splintered off (the new guy being the other part) somehow. Time will tell whether he really is Orin or not.

[yenaled]

I still think the new Aquaman has something to do with Orin's hand at the end of #40, I think.

It just seems silly to have him get it, let it smoke off and ignore it.

[TheCorpulent1]

So that's what, four possibilities now? Dweller =

- a transformed Orin
- a part of Orin that happens to include the water hand, splintered off from the rest
- a previous Waterbearer
- something related to the bones of Orin's hand, last seen in Aquaman #39

[yenaled]

Decided to resurrect this for an Aquaman #50 preview with new creative team Tad Williams and Shawn McManus. I'm sad to see Buseik go but I'm quietly confident that the title will stay as good as it has been.

http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Jan07/previews/Aquaman_500001.jpg
http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Jan07/previews/Aquaman_500002.jpg
http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Jan07/previews/Aquaman_500003.jpg
http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Jan07/previews/Aquaman_500004.jpg

[Darthphere]

Looks decent.

[Eros]

I wished they would bring back the old aquaman already.

[Anubis]

Looks like that squid headed Jedi from Clone Wars. I don't know. I might pick it up. Agents of Atlas ended, so I can replace it with this....maybe.

[Kitsune]

He's got some pretty big dreads there

[yenaled]

http://images.newsarama.com/dccomics/Aprl07/4/AQM_Cv51_solicit.jpg

AQUAMAN: SWORD OF ATLANTIS #51
Written by Tad Williams
Art by Shawn McManus & Walden Wong
Cover by Michael Wm. Kaluta
Acclaimed fantasy writer Tad Williams continues his run on the title that’s already garnered a great deal of attention! Black Manta is trying to move in on the remains of Sub Diego, and Tempest tries to help Arthur recover the Trident of Poseidon!
On sale April 18 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US

Sub Diego! Tempest!

Awesome.

[BrianWilly]

Huh. Didio hinted a few weeks back that Tempest would be back soon. Didn't figure it to be this soon.

[Darthphere]

I cant help but feel like dropping this title.

[BrianWilly]

You've been buying it? LAWL

Actually I haven't been reading so I have no idea what it's like.

I guess it's gonna tank.

Or maybe the story is all wet.

I hope it doesn't wash out.

But seriously, folks.

[Darthphere]

Its a good book.

[BrianWilly]

Oh. Then why are you dropping it?

[hippie_hunter]

Because Aquaman is too awesome for him

[Darthphere]

I cant get interested in this new creative team.

[GoldenAgeHero]

I cant get interested in this new creative team.


exactly this team does'nt cut it. kurt busiek abd guice leaving is a freakin travesty. this book was actually pretty damn good with those two. seems like aquaman is going to become mediocre again! at least i can enjoy 48 and 49. but im dropping this title at 50. it really had great potential too:(

[hippie_hunter]

I cant get interested in this new creative team.

Tempest and Sub Diego. That should get you interested enough.

[yenaled]

It's Busieks ideas and Tad is a proven writer, art team changes and it isn't bad art. So I'm keeping my hopes up.

Won't judge till I've read the thing, it could work out.

Also if GAH is dropping it then it must be good.

[hippie_hunter]

exactly this team does'nt cut it. kurt busiek abd guice leaving is a freakin travesty. this book was actually pretty damn good with those two. seems like aquaman is going to become mediocre again! at least i can enjoy 48 and 49. but im dropping this title at 50. it really had great potential too:(

YOU SUCK :cmad: :cmad: :cmad: :cmad: :cmad:

[Darthphere]

It's Busieks ideas and Tad is a proven writer, art team changes and it isn't bad art. So I'm keeping my hopes up.

Won't judge till I've read the thing, it could work out.

Also if GAH is dropping it then it must be good.

True that.:o

[yenaled]

Interview with Tad Williams at CBR (http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=9856).

I'm actually really looking forward to seeing what he does now promises of building up supporting casts have me excited and hopefully the storylines can pay off.

[Darthphere]

I will say this though. This book needs a good, regular artist.

[trustyside-kick]

O wow. I didn't know about this thread. I'll say something when I have more to say but I just cannot believe I overlooked this being an Aquaman fan. :wow:

[The Squirrel]

I'm thinking of picking up Sword of Atlantis.

I'm trying to get in on some DC stories here and there.

[SuGarRush]

So when is the real Aquaman gonna come back? Any news on that yet? or are we still having to put up with this new guy?
I only ask cause I really wanna pick the book up again, but haven't been able to in a while because I just don't like this new dude...

[yenaled]

Tad's certainly got plans for the Dweller, but I don't think we'll be seeing Orin as Aquaman until after the title gets cancelled.

[trustyside-kick]

Well, World War III explained the mysterious transformation of Orin. I quite like it, but a few things make me wonder (do not click the spoiler tag if you do not want to know any WWIII spoilers) :

Who were the two gods he talked to? I wouldn't think that they were the Olympian gods, because they themselves were composed of water and way too big just like the Lady of the Lake's sisters were. If that was supposed to be Poseidon and Triton, there are a few problems with that. Poseidon doesn't have his trident anymore, and looks way different. Triton looks way different and is...dead.

But alas, this means that there is possibly a chance for Orin to come back and that we will have the real Aquaman back. The way he transformed didn't bother me, I just wish it was for more of a reason than just bringing Sub Diego back to the surface. He should have had some kind of influence in the WWIII conflict by sacrificing himself like that.

[sethcohen]

new issue wasnt too bad... but macmanus has to go... i am not enjoying the art at all... i feel like im reading a kids book or something...

[TheCorpulent1]

McManus' art actually grew on me a bit with this issue. It was too jarring a change from the previous style, but it's not bad and it fits the lighter mood Williams seems to be going for.

Aquaman's transformation in WWIII sucked, as far as I'm concerned. It was way too quick to give anything more than the barest impression of what really happened, and it left all of the lingering questions trustyside-kick mentioned and more. Not to mention it was so obviously shoehorned into the WWIII event since it had absolutely nothing to do with WWIII; it was just something that happened to be occurring simultaneously. Badly executed all around.

[yenaled]

I wish they had just covered the transformation in this comic. It was just tacked on in WWIII.

I really liked the last issue, along with Corp, the art grew on me a lot, I liked seeing Lorena again. Topo I actually kind of like. It seems to be moving on a much quicker pace than it did before.

Interested in seeing Sub-Deigo now. Obviously not everyone rejected the changes and Orin wasn't able to raise all of Sub Deigo, which just made the bit in WWIII more pointless.

[Darthphere]

Aquaman keeps getting the shaft.

[TheCorpulent1]

I wish they had just covered the transformation in this comic. It was just tacked on in WWIII.

I really liked the last issue, along with Corp, the art grew on me a lot, I liked seeing Lorena again. Topo I actually kind of like. It seems to be moving on a much quicker pace than it did before.

Interested in seeing Sub-Deigo now. Obviously not everyone rejected the changes and Orin wasn't able to raise all of Sub Deigo, which just made the bit in WWIII more pointless.
Yeah, I think Williams is moving in an intriguing direction again. I'm not crazy that Black Manta is going to be the villain again, but it's nice to finally see some of Orin's old supporting cast come back and actually stick around for once. I like that Lorena's attempting to stay detached from Arthur--hopefully that'll lead to interesting character development with her later on.

I've got a love/hate thing with Topo. On the one hand, he's such a typical comedic sidekick that he irritates me. On the other hand, he's an extremely effective comedic sidekick because I end up chuckling in spite of myself at a lot of his actions (the ink explosion especially in this last issue). There at least seems to be more to him, what with his mysterious connection to this Deep Church thing (which, I hope, turns out to be a long-lasting and interesting new group of villains for Aquaman; he's kind of got a short supply of good ones).

Finally, Tempest's change annoys me. I love Tempest, and I was really excited to have him back, but I was disappointed to find that he's apparently in his sixties now and can barely survive underwater. Plus, some more grieving would've been nice. I miss the days when Garth and Orin... well, I don't want to say liked each other, but could at least stay in the same room without trying to kill each other. That's probably the worst leftover from the pre-Sword of Atlantis stuff, and Orin's "death" would've been a nice way to have Garth get over it and admit that he still cared about Orin, but Williams stuck with the angry loner routine for Garth. The constant bickering with Aquanewb isn't that great, but I don't particularly want Tempest to bond with Aquanewb in the wake of Orin's death, either. Seeing how their relationship develops should be interesting, if nothing else.

[yenaled]

Yeah Topo. He's completely by the books normal comedy sidekick. But I do find it funny so it's fine.

Tempest, agreed really. While I can allow a change in character, I wanted Garth to mourn and show he cared for his "father" despite all the past - maybe that's what all the anger is about (he wanted to carry on Orin's legacy and hates that there is an Aquanewb about) and it will all come around.

I was annoyed when I read that he "isn't much of a sorcerer" anymore because that was the best direction they had ever took his character. I was hoping for him to be an even more powerful sorcerer not well, I don't know what he is.

A least the oceanscape is a lot more populated than it's ever been and that's certainly a good thing.

[TheCorpulent1]

I guess they took Tempest's sorcery mojo away for a couple of reasons: it would make him too similar to Orin, since magic was the Dweller's thing, and having a sorcerer as powerful as Tempest had become would make things too easy for the group.

[trustyside-kick]

Orin cannot actually be dead. I mean seriously...in WWIII when he is talking to those 2 unknown gods, they talk about turning him into some ancient evil of his ancestors or something (I forget). That had to be significant; so why make something significant by pointing that out if he is going to die right away unless he isn't "dead"?

Now, if it has no tie what so ever with A:SoA then my god DC needs to improve a whole lot on their editorial staff before **** gets printed.

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, if they're planning on turning him evil and having Arthur fight him, I hope he just stays dead.

[trustyside-kick]

With Black Manta making an appearance, and last seeing him surrounded in a pool of sharks and such, any guesses on how he will look? Still breathing water but wears the suit (or some kind of suit) to hide his possibly scarred features? Maybe he will have a whole new look.

While the Timmverse had to rename him in Devil Ray in JLU, the design and everything about him wasn't actually that bad. The gear/equipment he had also made a lot of sense considering a manta ray's sting and such. Also it would make him more of a threat to Aquaman because his suit augmented him some strength amongst other things. I think a mix of the Black Manta suit and Devil Ray suit would turn into an awesome new Black Manta which will be less corny to non-Aquaman readers too.

Some info on Devil Ray for anyone who didn't watch the awesomeness that was the Timmverse and some pictures:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil_Ray_%28Justice_League_Unlimited%29

http://dcanimated.wikia.com/images/a/a5/DevilRaygun.jpg

http://dcanimated.wikia.com/images/4/43/Devilray.jpg

Here is an interesting picture I found on someone's own version of Black Manta were he put into the Timmverse:
http://www.jlanimated.com/fanart/matt/BlackManta.jpg

[yenaled]

Orin isn't dead. They ever said during the "funeral" that he's been "dead" before.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure he'll be back. I bet in five or ten years he'll even be back to his usual look.

Devil Ray was a good villain in the Timmverse. I definitely wouldn't mind seeing Black Manta's costume changed to resemble Devil Ray's more. Why'd they have to change the name?

[trustyside-kick]

Appearently the Aquaman license was sold to someone else at that time (also why there weren't too many Aquaman appearances from my understanding as well in that series). I don't remember the exact airing time of those episodes or anything but I'm guessing it was during the time they were working on that Aquaman Pilot for the WB that never ended up going on the air on the CW when the company changed.

That's the only thing I can come up with. I don't know who had the licensed rights to Aquaman at that time, but that's my guess. That is why they had to rename Black Manta to Devil Ray. The same would've happened if more of Aquaman's villains were to make cameos.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, I looked it up on Wikipedia and it cites a post by McDuffie on some message board where he says that the rights weren't available. He doesn't give anymore information, though.

[hippie_hunter]

I'm wondering how the hell Black Manta even survived!

[TheCorpulent1]

Sheer tenacity. Sharks are just another tool of the white man used to keep the bruthas down. :o

[trustyside-kick]

I couldn't find the old Aquaman title thread. I searched and all but couldn't find it...so I made a new one.

Also, I know there is talk about this title being canceled around issue 57ish...but I don't know...Tad Williams has really turned around the crappy OYL idea and the last few issues have been amazing. The things he has implemented and the latest nudges to the PAD run (the best stuff to ever happen to Aquaman ever) in his latest issue was awesome.

So...hopefully there are some who stuck with the title, when all others basically left because it was Aquanewb and now Orin. But there is hope...and I think Tad Williams can really turn this around even more.

[GoldenAgeHero]

busiek's direction was better, if it does get cancelled then good.

[hippie_hunter]

Aquaman better not get canceled :cmad:

[Kal-El 8]

I couldn't find the old Aquaman title thread. I searched and all but couldn't find it...so I made a new one.



http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=221052

[Kal-El 8]

bump

[GoldenAgeHero]

trustysidekick is a liar!? trusty my ass!

[GNR]

Aquaman is badass.Loved his character in Year One and Justice.No hooks,no beards,no metallic arm covers.

[trustyside-kick]

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=221052

Oh, okay. You found it. For some stupid reason when looking for it it didn't show up.

Mods, if you are reading this. You can go ahead and close this thread. That, or I guess you can merge them?

[trustyside-kick]

Okay...well since Kal-El 8 found this old thread, I copy and paste what I said before just for the sake of it being in the real thread. I already made a comment on my latest post for the Mods to close or merge the threads.

I couldn't find the old Aquaman title thread. I searched and all but couldn't find it...so I made a new one.

Also, I know there is talk about this title being canceled around issue 57ish...but I don't know...Tad Williams has really turned around the crappy OYL idea and the last few issues have been amazing. The things he has implemented and the latest nudges to the PAD run (the best stuff to ever happen to Aquaman ever) in his latest issue was awesome.

So...hopefully there are some who stuck with the title, when all others basically left because it was Aquanewb and now Orin. But there is hope...and I think Tad Williams can really turn this around even more.

But aside from what I already said...here are some other things:

- Anyone mind the way Tad explained how Black Manta survived? I know he never had that device on his suit (I don't recall seeing it before), but I'm not all dissapointed; it works. Course, wouldn't have minded if he got chewed up/bruised/injured a bit first so that he would have more of a reason to wear his helmet more (then again, now he does :O).

- Also, that girl with Narwhal was composed of water. I found that interesting. Reason being the two gods from WWIII and Aquaman being half water when OYL came around (and then the last few panels of this issue of the real Aquaman).

- They are starting to finally explain what has happened to Garth, although I'm surprised that this is one of the sub plots Tad has that is moving extremely slow. But time will tell...

- Also, with Mera mentioning Koryak's body being stolen after the Spectre's attack, and all this that we have learned about Narwhal...makes me think even more that Narwhal = Koryak.

- I may go back and look at the '94 series...but at the moment I feel too lazy. But do you guys remember the latest appearances of Kordax? Will help narrow down my search of my old comics.

[TheCorpulent1]

Does Aquaman get delayed often? I feel like it takes forever between issues. Maybe that's just Williams' slow pacing, though...

[Kal-El 8]

Does Aquaman get delayed often? I feel like it takes forever between issues. Maybe that's just Williams' slow pacing, though...

http://dccomics.com/media/covers/7637_400x600.jpg
AQUAMAN: SWORD OF ATLANTIS #54
Written by Tad Williams; Art by Shawn McManus; Cover by Paul Rivoche

Atlantean intrigue comes to a head as Arthur investigates what's become of the Dweller in the Depths! Plus, witness the amazing return of the human Flying Fish!

DC Universe | 32pg. | Color | $2.99 US

On Sale July 18, 2007

http://dccomics.com/media/covers/7808_400x600.jpg
AQUAMAN: SWORD OF ATLANTIS #55

Written by Tad Williams; Art by Shawn McManus; Cover by Kevin Maguire

Dire warnings about Dyss surround the never-still waters of Atlantis! Arthur reconnects with Vulko as fantasy novelist Tad Williams pens a mystery about the trident that continues to deepen! Featuring a cover by Kevin Maguire (JUSTICE LEAGUE)!

DC Universe | 32pg. | Color | $2.99 US

On Sale August 15, 2007

http://dccomics.com/media/covers/7979_400x600.jpg
AQUAMAN: SWORD OF ATLANTIS #56

Written by Tad Williams; Art by Shawn McManus; Cover by Butch Guice

Further revelations abound concerning the murky past of the new Aquaman as he steps forward to embrace his future. He'd better get used to people calling him "Aquaman," because it seems he'll be around for a long time in the DCU! Find out why in this issue!

DC Universe | 32pg. | Color | $2.99 US

On Sale September 19, 2007

[TheCorpulent1]

A "no" would've sufficed. I'd have believed you.

So did Aquaman #53 come out this month? I don't remember seeing it...

[trustyside-kick]

A "no" would've sufficed. I'd have believed you.

So did Aquaman #53 come out this month? I don't remember seeing it...

It did...and it was really really good. Sorry if some things were spoiled in my post above. I figured since it was 2 days after it came out it was okay to post. Course, I tried not to say too much just in case.

[TheCorpulent1]

I apparently missed it. I'll have to go back to the shop today and get it.

[Arkady Rossovich]

I thought this title was cancelled,i have not heard anything about it.:ninja:

[TheCorpulent1]

It went from good to really slow and boring to somewhat quicker but kind of confusing. That last one is where we find it today.

[yenaled]

That Butch Guise cover is gorgeous.

I haven't fully read the issue yet but I sneaked a look at the last page and I'm really interested in where it's all going.

[trustyside-kick]

I thought this title was cancelled,i have not heard anything about it.:ninja:

Tad himself said that there is really no way to save the title, because with fans *****ing and moaning about Orin not being the main character and not picking up the title anymore. The sales aren't terrible, but not what DC wants so they figured "Aquaman doesn't sell".

[hippie_hunter]

I bet Aquaman could sell if Orin were the title character and put a big name writer and artist on board.

[trustyside-kick]

Well, I'd rather have an Aquaman title then no Aquaman title at all. With them talking about canceling it, we probably won't get another title for a few years which is dumb. I think the people *****ing and moaning should give Tad a chance to turn it around completely from the changes left by Busiek in OYL. Tad has to work with what he has got and if allowed enough time he can make the title even greater. If he was able to write 5 issues more, I think that would be possible. But not with some fans being total asses about Orin not being the main character at the moment.

Tad himself said he wanted to bring Orin back as Aquaman but because of stupid fans he now won't be able to. Not like he can just have Orin become Aquaman so early, that would be cheesy and bad writing.

Also, if you look at the sales over the last few series...it seems DC wants to keep the title above 17/18k on sales. So if it were 19k+, or 20k+ I'm sure they wouldn't be as picky. Then again, it is dumb because SOA is still in like the top 120 and up every now and then out of 300 last time I checked yet they still think "Aquaman doesn't sell".

[TheCorpulent1]

How have stupid fans prevented Williams from bringing Orin back as Aquaman? If anything, most of the fans I've seen, stupid or otherwise, have been annoyed that Orin isn't Aquaman.

[trustyside-kick]

What I mean is that because they are upset with the Orin situation, they aren't buying as much, therefore he cannot get out the issues he wants to. I've talked to Tad...he wants to bring back Orin but to make it not crappy, he has to develop how it occurs.

Would you rather have a crappy revival as most comic revivals are? Tad had an idea...but now he cannot do it since it would've originally required 5 more issues past issue 57 which he won't be able to do cause of the cancellation.

I'm not ranting at you, so don't take it negative...that's just me talking to "all Aqua-fanboys *****ing and moaning". :ninja:

[TheCorpulent1]

One could also argue that Aquaman fans are abstaining from buying the Sword of Atlantis stuff because they don't want to send DC the mistaken impression that they prefer the Aquanewb to Orin. It's a bit of a catch-22. Orin might come back if fans bought the Aquanewb's stories, but fans don't want to buy the Aquanewb's stories because they want Orin back.

That said, I've still been buying Aquaman's comics. I don't quite know what to make of Williams' story so far, although I do appreciate the fact that he's brought back a lot more familiar faces than Busiek seemed like he was ever going to get to. I hope sales pick up and he's able to complete it. Maybe DC will allow him to finish Orin's return as a mini-series later on, though.

[yenaled]

It's a bit of a shot in the foot. Aquaman as a title was canceled, only Busiek's change to the title saved it from cancellation. Bad sales to Sword of Atlantis isn't sending to message that Aquanewb doesn't work just that DC were right in the first place to cancel Aquaman - as Aquaman doesn't sell.

[Eros]

It's a bit of a shot in the foot. Aquaman as a title was canceled, only Busiek's change to the title saved it from cancellation. Bad sales to Sword of Atlantis isn't sending to message that Aquanewb doesn't work just that DC were right in the first place to cancel Aquaman - as Aquaman doesn't sell.

Undersea heroes IMO are always a hard sell, both aquaman and Namor. Imo aquaman as a character should either get the occasional mini or supporting role, Ongoings are a No No.

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, in Aquaman's case it's just frustrating because he is a major character--much more so than Namor, in my opinion. The guy is one of the JLA's big seven, yet we haven't seen him actually do anything major in forever. I think the best way to go would be to simply tie Aquaman into more of the DC universe as a whole. Namor's getting a major shot in the arm from Civil War and the Illuminati; Aquaman himself got a big sales push from Our Worlds at War and The Obsidian Age. It seems so stupid to take Aquaman out of the League and basically withdraw him from the DC universe as a whole when experience has taught us that the opposite approach tends to work better.
It's a bit of a shot in the foot. Aquaman as a title was canceled, only Busiek's change to the title saved it from cancellation. Bad sales to Sword of Atlantis isn't sending to message that Aquanewb doesn't work just that DC were right in the first place to cancel Aquaman - as Aquaman doesn't sell.
Yeah, which is unfortunate, since Pfeiffer and Arcudi were actually doing some cool stuff in the comic before SoA. I, for one, think Officer Malrey and Lorena are worthy additions to Orin's (or even the Aquanewb's) permanent supporting cast.

[trustyside-kick]

One could also argue that Aquaman fans are abstaining from buying the Sword of Atlantis stuff because they don't want to send DC the mistaken impression that they prefer the Aquanewb to Orin. It's a bit of a catch-22. Orin might come back if fans bought the Aquanewb's stories, but fans don't want to buy the Aquanewb's stories because they want Orin back.

Actually, the situation is pretty messed up...on the DC boards Tad also even talks to the fans at times and lets them ask questions to him. He flat out told them (a long time ago, before the cancellation was pretty much "final") that if the sales would go up, the series wouldn't get canceled and he would've been granted the time he needed to bring Orin back; he wants Orin back as Aquaman too. He also said that when the title gets canceled...Orin isn't coming back. Artie Joseph is going to stay.

But then fans were saying back to him that they think Orin will come back when Tad himself has talked to the people at DC and they are against Orin coming back after the series cancellation. So really, the only way for him to come back would've been through Tad since he's writing the series end. But he needs more time to do so, which he won't be allowed because of the damn idiot fanboys. Tad himself told them this, and they still argued back, some even in an extreme negative way.

So looks like it will be a good amount of years before DC will allow his return. Cannot know for sure, but Tad has been telling people what he has been told. Being the series' writer...I do not see how people would be dumb enough to tell him he's wrong when he talked to the DC people himself...

So all we can really do is cross our fingers and hope that DC comes around and changes their minds in the following months. But Tad has strongly claimed that they are strongly against Orin's return after the series' cancellation.

[trustyside-kick]

EDIT: Damn hype.

[TheCorpulent1]

Bleh, I don't know what the hell's going on at DC anymore. :(

[trustyside-kick]

Yea, I mean so many of their OYL ideas went sour. 52 was good though. Countdown has been a huge dissapointment too. Final Crisis (if that's what it's going to be called) better be freakin' amazing.

[GoldenAgeHero]

busiek's take on the title was alot better then what tad williams is doing with it. I'm glad its cancelled, they should stop trying to give the character a title,because it always gets cancelled. just put his lame asson a team or shoot him into oblivion.

[hippie_hunter]

busiek's take on the title was alot better then what tad williams is doing with it. I'm glad its cancelled, they should stop trying to give the character a title,because it always gets cancelled. just put his lame asson a team or shoot him into oblivion.

Aquaman isn't lame and it's the fault of the god damn Superfriends on why people think he is.

[GoldenAgeHero]

i like him alot more as the sorcerer and i like the newbie,i wish busiek would've stayed to see his direction fleshed out alot more.

[yenaled]

I was thinking that but reading the last issue I think Tad's really got everything sorted out. Juts have to get past some teething.

[TheCorpulent1]

I think so, too. I'm liking where it seems like Williams is taking it, but everything's still so obtuse at this point because of the transition that I'm not actually sure it's going where I think it's going. In other words, Aquaman kind of confuses me at the moment.

[hippie_hunter]

What confuses you?

[Kitsune]

I think we are going to find that Athur and Orin are actually the same person and they will merge to regenerate into an new Aquaman who is healthy and not missing a hand.

[TheCorpulent1]

God, I hope not. The water hand is the best addition to Aquaman ever. Yes. Ever.
What confuses you?
I just have no idea where Williams is going. It doesn't even seem like he's exploring the mystery surrounding the Aquanewb and Orin anymore.

[Darthphere]

McManus still doing the art?

[TheCorpulent1]

Yep.

[Darthphere]

Then me no buy.

[TheCorpulent1]

h8r :o

[trustyside-kick]

Then me no buy.

His art has improved quite a bit actually. And no, it's not that his art is growing on me. I look back issues 50 and 51 and I still hate it, but 52 and 53 he seemed to make some quick changes and improvements making it way better.

[comicfan4Life]

I am on the dc comics board and I too am one of the people who wants the regular orin back. Even though that is the case I have liked and not liked the series from time to time. Certain issues are good some are not so good. I know that Tad is doing his best to write a great book, but with pressure from fans and having to do what he's told, if I were him I wouldn't worry. If DC wants to cancel aquaman let them.

As an aquaman fan I have continued to buy his comics no matter what. I love aquaman but DC needs to find a damn direction for him. He needs a great writer: He has that, he needs a great artist: He has an ok artist. I know it's a comic but does Shawn's art have to be so cartoonish? They gave him a hook hand, and nothing happend. I think that was a slap in the face to the character and me as a fan. He lives underwater, so let's give him long hair, a beard, and a hook hand. I swear to god I thought they were going to put an eye patch on him.

Then they gave him a waterhand. Great concepts to be used. He can open gateways to the secret sea, block out magic, healing, and then he can't use it in combat because he'll unleash the thirst. Lame. they should have had arthur become tempted by the power of it. The thirst should've came out and increased orin's powers whenever he used it. This could lead to Orin knowing of this evil thing that's now in him and would lead to a great battle between the two. I loved how they had the battle take place in the mind instead of in the real world with stuff being blown-up like most hero/villian battles.

But I guess when people saw the water hand they expect a new power upgrade like turning his body into water or taking any shape, aswell as solidifying himself to become as hard as steel. Maybe even regeneration of lost limbs. I kinda did too. I think they should've made him able to stay out of water for however long he wants without dehydrating or loosing air.

Now he we have a new guy. It's understandable that it can be tough being a new guy. All the stuff is against you. You have so much to live up to. I believe if the new guy was written more like a serious character instead of an idiot teenager who acts like he can act without thinking and get away with it, maybe people would like him more. He doesn't know how to use his telepathy well, he has no respect of history or takes his foes seriously, and he has bad dialouge. He doesn't take anything seriously.

But I believe Orin will comeback stronger than before. He should come back with a strong sense of the mystical arts. That's all he needs. His father was one of the most powerful sorcerors in the DCU, that should be in his blood. He already has that background with Kordax. Make him a mystic and he'll have far greater abilities than before. But even if they don't do that, he still needs a direction. You have comics with no superheroes or superpowers that sell well because they have a direction.

Take the aquaman from the justice mini. That's aquaman! He has a direction, he was strong, he was all-around great! He had a great writer and a damned great artist. Batman can get great writers and artists. Same with supes and even wonder woman. But aquaman can't even get a damn running series becuase he's the freaking fish guy! Tad is doing the best he can with what he's got. Maybe fans are holding out and sells are low because they want to get the message across that,"We pay with our money, so give us what we want." That sounds pretty damn fair to me. Maybe DC will listen, maybe they won't. I'll hold out for as long as the series goes, but if this continues, I guess I have to go to marvel if I want to read about an aquatic hero. Namor can get in big events and get a jumpstart, why can't aquaman?

Is it because of that stupi superfriends cartoon? Are people that lazy to read and become informed for themselves that they listen to a cartoon? I'm 16 and watch the show sometimes on boomerang, and it sucks. I know that was the best they could do back then, but give me a break.

[GoldenAgeHero]

the new aquaman kicks ass and like a i said busieks direction was working very well for the book,but since tad came on its been pretty bland and the artist ain'thelping either. the aquaman from the justice mini was pretty boring as well,aquaman (the original has no persona at all), the new guy does.


and thats what i liked sword of atlantis,new and interesting character,a fresh take on a lame character.

and its not like if the original aquaman comes back,sales are going to skyrocket,most likely it'll be cancelled anyway.

[comicfan4Life]

Like I said they need a direction. It shouldn't matter what version of the character it is, the book should still be great either way. But that's not the case. Don't get me wrong they have a direction now, but it feels like Connan under water. I know the story takes place in Atlantis, but most people don't like the direction because it's too mystical, they want a more modern take. They want a superhero, hell I do too. They can have mystical, but they need hero aspects awell. Artie Joe has the potential. I believe that if he remains the aquaman for a long time he'll have reached his potential over time, but now that just isn't happening.

[trustyside-kick]

and its not like if the original aquaman comes back,sales are going to skyrocket,most likely it'll be cancelled anyway.

Sales may not skyrocket, but they will pick up to the point where Tad can continue his stories. I do not quite understand some of the small amount of hate for Tad I've seen so far. Some of it cannot be called "hate" really for the most part, but I guess I'm surprised some people aren't enjoying his work as much as I am. I think that with the ideas he had planned, with the real Aquaman back, he could bring the title its glory.

He would be like what PAD is to Aquaman, bringing Orin back to his glory. Too bad he won't be given a chance. I'm not kissing ass, I really do think Tad could turn this around if he had more time. Issues 52 and 53 show this; especially 53. I absolutely loved those 2 issues. Plus, as I've said before, Tad talks on the DC boards and shares ideas of his. Believe me, the guy would bring the real Aquaman the justice he deserves (let's just hope issues 54-57 don't turn to crap for some strange reason and come back to bite me in the ass :O).

[GoldenAgeHero]

Like I said they need a direction. It shouldn't matter what version of the character it is, the book should still be great either way. But that's not the case. Don't get me wrong they have a direction now, but it feels like Connan under water. I know the story takes place in Atlantis, but most people don't like the direction because it's too mystical, they want a more modern take. They want a superhero, hell I do too. They can have mystical, but they need hero aspects awell. Artie Joe has the potential. I believe that if he remains the aquaman for a long time he'll have reached his potential over time, but now that just isn't happening.


the modern take does'nt f'n work!!!! thats why its been cancelled and relaunched so many freakin times. the mystical fits the title of the book very well. if it's conan under water so ****in be it,it's still alot better then aquaman pre-oyl. Thats why books like namor and aquaman, have'nt survived very long, damn thing takes place under the damn sea, so havinga modern take on the title does'nt work. what do you want to see? divers robbing an atlantian bank and aquaman swimming by and stopping them? booooooring! other titles in the DCU already do that. the mystical direction helps the damn book, making it more unique and filling a niche!


the modern take just does'nt work on sea characters,again look at namor and aquamn both have had modern takes and they both have failed.

if you or any other fans can't handle a more unique direction, well then i hope you continue liking the cancellation of each relaunch.

[hippie_hunter]

the new aquaman kicks ass and like a i said busieks direction was working very well for the book,but since tad came on its been pretty bland and the artist ain'thelping either. the aquaman from the justice mini was pretty boring as well,aquaman (the original has no persona at all), the new guy does.


and thats what i liked sword of atlantis,new and interesting character,a fresh take on a lame character.

and its not like if the original aquaman comes back,sales are going to skyrocket,most likely it'll be cancelled anyway.

The art is getting better, but I still can't stand the black beady eyes that he gave Arthur.

[yenaled]

We've said this before, the worse thing about Aquaman is that no-one can ever stick to a solid direction with him. Not that the concepts are bad just no-one is ever willing to stick with them and let them play out.

At the moment all I want is for this curent direction to play out for a long time so I can have a stable Aquaman title for once in my life.

[GoldenAgeHero]

which is why tad williams should stop being an ******* and follow busiek's direction. imo the title just works better that way.

[yenaled]

It's kind of hard for someone else to follows someone else's direction without being in their head. For what it's worth I think he is following as much as he can, I haven't seen a great difference in direction apart from a bit lighter in tone and Tad actually introducing characters and getting to explanations.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, Aquaman's been like a Lost season over Busiek and Williams' runs. Busiek's run set up loads of questions without really answering any of them satisfactorily, like the first 3/4ths of a Lost season, and Williams' run has been answering some questions while introducing new possibilities with those answers, like the last few episodes of a Lost season.

[comicfan4Life]

the modern take does'nt f'n work!!!! thats why its been cancelled and relaunched so many freakin times. the mystical fits the title of the book very well. if it's conan under water so ****in be it,it's still alot better then aquaman pre-oyl. Thats why books like namor and aquaman, have'nt survived very long, damn thing takes place under the damn sea, so havinga modern take on the title does'nt work. what do you want to see? divers robbing an atlantian bank and aquaman swimming by and stopping them? booooooring! other titles in the DCU already do that. the mystical direction helps the damn book, making it more unique and filling a niche!


the modern take just does'nt work on sea characters,again look at namor and aquamn both have had modern takes and they both have failed.

if you or any other fans can't handle a more unique direction, well then i hope you continue liking the cancellation of each relaunch.

The current Namor series is using a modern take with a damn great story. So I guess it can work. It follows the events of Civil War and will lead to a new chapter in Namor's history when it ends. No I don't want to see aquaman stopping bank robbers under water. But the modern take can work. All he needs is a good writer and a great artist, Tad is a great writer and Shawn's art has kinda grown on me a little.

But he keeps changing directions, first Busiek came in a changed it around, now Williams. I know everyone has their own way of doing things but aquaman has changed too many times. One minute he's a king, then he's exiled, then the protector of the secrect sea, then a king again, then sub diego, now no atlantis. You have some great stories in there don't get me wrong, but some people are turned off by the changes. It's like watching a I love Lucy without lucy. It gets to people.

All he needs is a steady direction. It's too mystical now, not enough hero elements. Last time I checked aquaman saved people in sea and on land when ever he could. It takes time getting used too. Mystical comics don't sell to well. You have a select few but that's about 4 books. War hammer got canceled for the 10th time just last week. I don't mind mystical aspects as he should have that seeing as how it's in his bloodline. But aquaman is still a hero. That's all I'm saying, you don't have get all loud and start yelling at people.

And so what if they cancel the book, it's not the first time. yeah it sucks, but if people spend their money on something they should at least get what they want. You and some others like the mystical take. Some like the straight up hero take. I like both, but all I'm saying is that it's too mystical, last time I checked aquaman was still a hero. He only did one heroic thing in the entire series so far and that was save that man-squid he calls topo. No need to yell at people for sharing their opinion.

[yenaled]

I don't think Aquaman ever needs to go on land, there is so much potential in an oceanscape book and so much potential using Aquaman as more than just a superhero.

So many people moan that Aquaman is weak on land, so leave it. Have Orin and Aquanewb stop ancient gods, terrorist groups, ruthless rulers or supervillains underwater. With Orin now and again joining up with old friends when they need help.

[TheCorpulent1]

Aquaman hasn't been weak on land since the water hand, though. Its connection to the Secret Sea was supposed to keep him constantly hydrated.

I don't see a problem with keeping Orin underwater all the time in his book, though. That's basically what they've been doing since Sub Diego sank. His land adventures ought to be more with the JLA anyway, so just have him be on land in their comic.

[trustyside-kick]

So, with Tad's writing, it seems the idea PAD suggested long ago may come to life.

Any ideas on this? Orin might come back as some water elemental. I don't think it is such a bad idea, really. I personally like the idea, but with certain things kept in mind on how this will change him:

- It would make him so much stronger in the water, near god-like, adding more to the character. Water has always been his "element", after all. So if anything, it would make sense if he could take multiple shapes underwater as well as solidifying himself to present his normal "human" form.

- Out of water, I think it would take more concentration to hold his "human" form, but it would be his more common form. I'm not saying he shouldn't be able to take other water forms on land, but I think it should perhaps take more of a strain on his body on land than in water.

Any agreements on this? Disagreements?

[TheCorpulent1]

I guess an all-water Orin would be okay if he retains his telepathy and the same powers his water hand gave him. Wasn't the 853rd-century Aquaman from DC One Million made of water?

[trustyside-kick]

I dunno. I happen to have that issue though, I just never got around to it. :O

I'll check when I get off from work to my break.

Reguardless, Aquaman should be the toughest damn thing in the ocean basically. His underwater power should skyrocket, while his surface power be upped a slight amount but not to where he could take on Supes on land for example. If Supes goes down into the ocean however, I want to see a magical watery Aquaman showing him who wears the crown in the depths of the ocean. :ninja:

[Darthphere]

I guess an all-water Orin would be okay if he retains his telepathy and the same powers his water hand gave him. Wasn't the 853rd-century Aquaman from DC One Million made of water?

No.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0f/Justicelegiona.jpg

[TheCorpulent1]

Right, just his hair was water. I hope Orin-as-Waterman means he'll get his beard back. I really, really hope that he won't be squiddy anymore once he changes, too.

[trustyside-kick]

Right, just his hair was water. I hope Orin-as-Waterman means he'll get his beard back. I really, really hope that he won't be squiddy anymore once he changes, too.

Well, if you look at Manus' art on that panel of showing Orin "coming back to life as water", you can see that he looks normal. He had long hair, and a long beard (looks like longer than the PAD one had).

[TheCorpulent1]

Eh, I was never a fan of the long hair. I always thought he should have short hair and a nice, well-trimmed beard.

[Darthphere]

Eh, I was never a fan of the long hair. I always thought he should have short hair and a nice, well-trimmed beard.

You're so gay.:csad:

[TheCorpulent1]

Only for beards.

[sethcohen]

new issue is getting interesting... is this really getting canceled?

[BrianWilly]

The art really doesn't help. It looks like a f'ing episode of vgcats or something.

[hippie_hunter]

new issue is getting interesting... is this really getting canceled?

Yep :csad:

[trustyside-kick]

I liked McManus' art only in issues 52 and 53. This issue..it seemed different yet again. I dunno, maybe I liked his art in those issues because of the coloring? Different colorist it seems in this issue. But the art is better than the issues previous to 52 of Tad's run.

Loving Tad's writing once again. It sucks this title is going to be canceled after the next 3 issues. I am so glad that he is wrapping up the Sub Diego stuff that never ended up getting explained. I liked the idea of Sub Diego, but I felt it was executed poorly. At least that will be resolved.

Can anyone really be shocked to where this seems to be going? Tad seems to be tieing Aquanewb's existence with the Sub Diego thing. And his father saying he died already, could mean that the lifespan (if Aquanewb is indeed a clone) is limited. Then again, he is supposed to be on the Outsider's, right? We'll see what Tad gives up later. But that seems to be the most obvious theory behind his past.

I gotta say, I also like the new Human Flying Fish. The only thing I would prefer would not to have Tri-Dent on his suit so much; perhaps remove it entirely and only have the emblem or just have it on their once on one side of the chest and perhaps shrink it. But I'm happy with how Tad decided to bring that villain back.

Krusivax? Well, the only thing confusing me is why he looks like some kung fu master. Not just the clothes, either...those clothes with the long hair and that kind of goatee or soul patch if you want to call it, just sets off that vibe to me. Him being introduced I like, since it's a nudge to the PAD run, but I haven't been fascinated with his presence aside from that. Vandal Savages appearances does help though.

I am definitely interested in where Garth's story is going though. And anyone else notice how his skin is no longer powdery white? I know a lot of people *****ed about that on the DC boards, and Tad views those boards...but any of you wonder if he personally told the new colorist this? Lol, if he did.

[DavidTyler]

Want to fix Aquaman? Stop making it so convoluted and stop trying to make him look like an underwater Conan. Make him young enough for us to identify with. Make him discover his underwater world as we discover it. I liked when they had Killer Shark as his companion. Have the writer go back and read some Edgar Rice Boroughs. Then go back and read the Jim Aparo run. Aquaman hasn't been interesting since.

[Darthphere]

Make him young enough for us to identify with.

Why? This seems pretty pointless.

[trustyside-kick]

Why? This seems pretty pointless.

Yea, uh I basically do not agree with that either. Or anything else he said actually.

[hippie_hunter]

Make him young enough for us to identify with.

See that's where you lost me. Aquaman is supposed to be as old as Green Arrow, Barry Allen, Hal Jordan, Superman, and Batman. Around late 30's to early 40's. In Aquaman's case, I suspect early 40's.

Also, he's royalty, he's supposed to have that kind of maturity, not youthfulness.

[TheCorpulent1]

I always viewed Aquaman as slightly older than the other major heroes, so I'd go with early 40s as well.

Anyway, this week's issue was good but I agree with BW; I personally like McManus' art, but it's all wrong for the direction Williams' story is going. I found myself really wishing Guice were still around in this issue. Either way, I hope Williams has enough time to maybe truncate some stuff and bring some closure to the major plot threads of his story before November. I hope he manages to get Orin back into the picture, at the very least.

[trustyside-kick]

So are any of you guys going to pick up Outsiders after Issue #57? I'd prefer the real Aquaman, but it's also better than none.

Also, the line up looks cool. I like Nightwing and Bats of course, Aquanewb is better than no Aquaman...and I'm interested in Shift (or is it Metamorpho on this team? I get em mixed up).

[TheCorpulent1]

Metamorpho is currently on the team. Shift is dead. He committed suicide by forcing himself back into Rex after Indigo died.

I'll be giving Batman and the Outsiders a shot. I like the Martian Manhunter and Catwoman, Aquanewb could still be an interesting character even if he'll never really be Aquaman, and Boomerang has piqued my interest. The only thing that was really keeping me away before was the fact that Winick was still supposed to be writing after the title change, and Winick's been bloody awful on most of his comics lately. But now that Bedard is taking over, I'll give it an arc or two to win me over.

[hippie_hunter]

So are any of you guys going to pick up Outsiders after Issue #57? I'd prefer the real Aquaman, but it's also better than none.

Also, the line up looks cool. I like Nightwing and Bats of course, Aquanewb is better than no Aquaman...and I'm interested in Shift (or is it Metamorpho on this team? I get em mixed up).

The real Aquaman doesn't belong on the Outsiders, he belongs in the Justice League. The new Outsiders appears to become the new Justice League Elite, which would be an interesting route to take with Aquanewb.

Also, Shift is dead and Nightwing will most likely not be on the team from the looks of it, despite Winick's comments.

[TheCorpulent1]

Thankfully, Winick's comments don't necessarily mean anything anymore now that Bedard is writing.

[DavidTyler]

I have the feeling that most of you grew up with the bearded warrior king version of Aquaman... I didn't.

Aquaman was a contemporary of Superman and was of about the same age. I don't see him as older.

[yenaled]

I'm going to pick up Outsiders because:

1) I want to read more AJ Curry.
2) Winick has left.
3) Maybe J'onn can be redeemed in it.
4) I really like Metamorpho.

[trustyside-kick]

I've heard a lot of negative talk about Winnick in general lately. What has he done that's so bad? All the stuff I've read that he's done I've enjoyed a lot.

[hippie_hunter]

It's not that Winick himself is bad. He's actually a good writer, as long as he doesn't stay on a book for like....FOREVER!!!

He's been on Green Arrow and Outsiders for so long it just feels like he's out of fresh ideas and the books feel real stale now, especially since OYL. Not only that it feels repetitive because Winick uses the topics of homosexuality and AIDS in almost every freaking comic he does. Why can't he tackle another topic? I'm half expecting Winick to turn Freddy Freeman gay in Trials of Shazam!

[TheCorpulent1]

I have the feeling that most of you grew up with the bearded warrior king version of Aquaman... I didn't.

Aquaman was a contemporary of Superman and was of about the same age. I don't see him as older.
I think Superman's somewhere in his late-'30s too. :confused: