The Official Kevin Spacey As Lex Luthor Thread

[Sebastos]

So that he can avenge superman's death in superman returns third sequel.

No thanks.

I'm ok with a Lex return if they move him into the political arena or give him Lexcorp



This is what i am hoping for be it Metallo or some other super being for a quick openign sequence fight

Lexcorp. would be awesome. :up:

I think maybe Parasite or someone else should serve as a villain Superman fights and takes out at the start of the film. Or as you said, Metallo.

[Justice Bringer]

That's a good way of explaining it I guess. But Jason dieing or not is something we'd have to wait and see. There could be something that happens and it results to his death, or he could end up being fine.

But what about his powers?

We dont know how his powers will manifest.

Baby Kal-El was lifting trucks.

Jason had to be put under extreme stress to even use one of his powers.

He'll be different.

[Sebastos]

We dont know how his powers will manifest.

Baby Kal-El was lifting trucks.

Jason had to be put under extreme stress to even use one of his powers.

He'll be different.

Yeah, but Jason pushed that piano in SR. Doesn't that count for super strength?

[Capeless Hero]

New to the Superman thread but I just thought Id pop up and say....BOO to LEX LUTHOR, I AM SICK AND TIRED OF LEX LUTHOR: Superman I,II,IV, and returns. Bring in some fresh meat, I mean the strongest superhero in the world and we've barely seen him throw a punch, power yeah plenty, but I have yet to see a sonic boom punch. Shesh, the Superman movie franchise is going down the crapper.

[Sebastos]

New to the Superman thread but I just thought Id pop up and say....BOO to LEX LUTHOR, I AM SICK AND TIRED OF LEX LUTHOR: Superman I,II,IV, and returns. Bring in some fresh meat, I mean the strongest superhero in the world and we've barely seen him throw a punch, power yeah plenty, but I have yet to see a sonic boom punch. Shesh, the Superman movie franchise is going down the crapper.

We don't know what Lex's role in the sequel will be yet, so calm down. He'll probably help the main villain and Superman faces off against the new threat.

[Justice Bringer]

Yeah, but Jason pushed that piano in SR. Doesn't that count for super strength?

Thats what I said; he had to be put under extreme stress for that power to even manifest.

It seemed to happen by accident to; he even apologized as he didnt understand it either.

I'm not sure he'll ever be a superhero per say when he grows up.

It would have been great if he turned out to be like Kon-El when he becomes a teenager; but I dont see that happening either.

[Justice Bringer]

Lex wasnt in Superman III and his crappy replacement sucked. When Lex was killed off on 'Lois and Clark' the show got alot less interesting and started to decline. If Lex wasnt on Smallville all this time, that show so wouldnt have lasted this long.

Lex needs to be involved in MoS.

[Eros]

Lex wasnt in Superman III and his crappy replacement sucked. When Lex was killed off on 'Lois and Clark' the show got alot less interesting and started to decline. If Lex wasnt on Smallville all this time, that show so wouldnt have lasted this long.

Lex needs to be involved in MoS.

Very true, But the Lois and clark Lex and the smallville Lex are superior versions of the character.

[Sebastos]

Thats what I said; he had to be put under extreme stress for that power to even manifest.

It seemed to happen by accident to; he even apologized as he didnt understand it either.

I'm not sure he'll ever be a superhero per say when he grows up.

It would have been great if he turned out to be like Kon-El when he becomes a teenager; but I dont see that happening either.

Yes, I see.

So how do you think he'll be different then? Different in powers? I don't know, maybe in the sequel Clark finds out?

[dude love]

Thats very doubtful. Singer's structured this story so that the obvious end outcome is Superman, Lois and Jason together as a family like the end of "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tommorow"

To kill him off and make the ending tragic, dark and convoluted....would be X3.

I can picture a supposed second sequel ending with Superman having his last stand at the Fortress like in "Man of Tomorrow".

[Eros]

Yes, I see.

So how do you think he'll be different then? Different in powers? I don't know, maybe in the sequel Clark finds out?


Jason is a hybrid, he will have the same powers as his father, just at half-strength,but you know that.

[Sebastos]

Jason is a hybrid, he will have the same powers as his father, just at half-strength,but you know that.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. But JB said Jason will be different, so I want to know just how different. It'd be interesting if he didn't have the exact same powers as Superman.

[Justice Bringer]

Yes, I see.

So how do you think he'll be different then? Different in powers? I don't know, maybe in the sequel Clark finds out?

Impossible to say, but he is clearly different.


In every single Superman incarnation I've seen; Superman's ultimate personal desire is to have a family and be happy in the end.

Singer's setting up that end but putting obstacles in the way....since that end is still ways away.


Jason being killed will just turn Superman into the ultimate emo. Superman's story isnt a tragedy so the ending is bound to obviously be a happy one.

Unlike Batman; who will tragically never find the same fulfillment. Thats what seperates the two.

[Eros]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. But JB said Jason will be different, so I want to know just how different. It'd be interesting if he didn't have the exact same powers as Superman.


what other kind of powers can he have?

[Justice Bringer]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. But JB said Jason will be different, so I want to know just how different. It'd be interesting if he didn't have the exact same powers as Superman.

Thats what I'm thinking.

Notice that Kryptonite didnt affect Jason at all. He just stared at it and nothing; before Lex gave up.

In fact; it may have caused his strength power to manifest itself. It may have powered him.

[Eros]

Thats what I'm thinking.

Notice that Kryptonite didnt affect Jason at all. He just stared at it and nothing; before Lex gave up.

In fact; it may have caused his strength power to manifest itself. It may have powered him.


doubtful, unless his father is bizzarro. jason was powered by fear, he got nervous and scared for he and his mother, and his powers manifested simple.

[Sebastos]

Impossible to say, but he is clearly different.


In every single Superman incarnation I've seen; Superman's ultimate personal desire is to have a family and be happy in the end.

Singer's setting up that end but putting obstacles in the way....since that end is still ways away.


Jason being killed will just turn Superman into the ultimate emo. Superman's story isnt a tragedy so the ending is bound to obviously be a happy one.

Unlike Batman; who will tragically never find the same fulfillment. Thats what seperates the two.

Yeah I guess it would kind of be impossible to think of how Jason's powers would differ from Superman. But i'm sure if this were true, (which it most likely is), then i'd be interested to see what powers he has.

what other kind of powers can he have?

Like JB said, it would be hard to think of. If it weren't for that part in SR, where Lex waved the crystal in front of Jason, Jason not being affected by Kryptonite would have been cool.

[Hunter Rider]

Lexcorp. would be awesome. :up:

I think maybe Parasite or someone else should serve as a villain Superman fights and takes out at the start of the film. Or as you said, Metallo.

:up: i think Lexcorp would be a good starting place and build to the political arena in the 3rd

It could be one of any mainly physical villain IMO

[Eros]

Yeah I guess it would kind of be impossible to think of how Jason's powers would differ from Superman. But i'm sure if this were true, (which it most likely is), then i'd be interested to see what powers he has.



Like JB said, it would be hard to think of. If it weren't for that part in SR, where Lex waved the crystal in front of Jason, Jason not being affected by Kryptonite would have been cool.

chances are the more jason powers manifest, and the older he gets, Kryptonite will effect him more.

[Sebastos]

Thats what I'm thinking.

Notice that Kryptonite didnt affect Jason at all. He just stared at it and nothing; before Lex gave up.

In fact; it may have caused his strength power to manifest itself. It may have powered him.

LOL, I just said that in my post. But are we sure it didn't affect him? It looked to me like it did.

:up: i think Lexcorp would be a good starting place and build to the political arena in the 3rd

It could be one of any mainly physical villain IMO

Right on. Maybe Lex could start building it in the sequel and then it would be done for the third film. I'd love to see Mercy end up replacing Kitty.

chances are the more jason powers manifest, and the older he gets, Kryptonite will effect him more.

Very true.

[Justice Bringer]

LOL, I just said that in my post. But are we sure it didn't affect him? It looked to me like it did.


It didnt affect him in a negative way. He didnt look like was in pain ...he just stared at it in fascination.

If Lex thought Kryptonite WAS affecting Jason; he wouldnt have given up trying to use it on him.

[Sebastos]

It didnt affect him in a negative way. He didnt look like was in pain ...he just stared at it in fascination.

If Lex thought Kryptonite WAS affecting Jason; he wouldnt have given up trying to use it on him.

Lex noticed that something was happening with Jason when he was waving the Kryptonite and that's why he asked who the father was. So I think the idea of it affecting Jason crossed Lex's mind. Hopefully this is something that can be explored in the sequel.

[Justice Bringer]

doubtful, unless his father is bizzarro. jason was powered by fear, he got nervous and scared for he and his mother, and his powers manifested simple.

Who knows what a human/Kryptonian hybrid can do in this world....I guess we'll find out.

But he doesnt seem to be able to access what little powers he has at will; unlike Superman.

[Eros]

Who knows what a human/Kryptonian hybrid can do in this world....I guess we'll find out.

But he doesnt seem to be able to access what little powers he has at will; unlike Superman.

wells supermans a fully gorwn, flood Blooded Kryptonian, Jason only 5 and half-human.

[Justice Bringer]

Thank you captain obvious.

[strikezone89]

how did this forum turn into "is jason better than superman fourm?

[Justice Bringer]

Now that Superman has found his place in the world and has that renewed sense of purpose...

I have a feeling Bryan may characterize Jason as one who feels like an 'outcast' for future films now that he knows he isnt fully human.

[mego joe]

Unlike Batman; who will tragically never find the same fulfillment. Thats what seperates the two.

I guess you're not familiar with the Earth-2 Batman who got married, had a daughter and was pretty fulfilled for the most part.

[Justice Bringer]

I guess you're not familiar with the Earth-2 Batman who got married, had a daughter and was pretty fulfilled for the most part.

I am but I was refering to the modern characterization.

That Batman unfortunately died in the 70s too. I have the issue of his funeral.

He was also the mayor of Gotham I believe.

I didnt like the tragic way things ended up for most of the Earth 2 heroes. Earth 2 Superman got royally screwed in Infinite Crisis.

I consider them alternate versions of the real characters (despite them apparently coming first).

[mego joe]

I am but I was refering to the modern characterization.

That Batman unfortunately died in the 70s too. I have the issue of his funeral.


THat was great story arc with the JSA.

He was also the mayor of Gotham I believe.


Police commissioner, he continued the fight even after hanging up the tights.


I didnt like the tragic way things ended up for most of the Earth 2 heroes. Earth 2 Superman got royally screwed in Infinite Crisis.


I understand your feeling on the Earth-2 characters, they have long been my favorites, but I think they may be having a comeback considering the return of the Multiverse as revealed at the end of 52. Plus, look for Kal-L to reappear in the JSA shortly.

I consider them alternate versions of the real characters (despite them apparently coming first).

HOw do you feel about pre-Crisis Earth-1 characters, then. THey are certainly different in many ways from the current versions. Who are the real ones in that comparison? I only ask b/c I think of "What Ever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" as the end of the Earth-1 SUperman, a separate character from the current Superman. It certainly doesn't look very rosy for Superman, Lois and Co. in the current Camelot Falls storyline in the Superman book right now.

FOr the record, I consider them all 'real' just different versions. WHen you boil them down to their essence, they are the same.

[Justice Bringer]

That is true. But after a point DC tends to favor one specific timeline; Earth One became that.

Earth 2 then became an alternate version to One. Meaning the characters of Two had drastically different and divergent fates.


I thought Kal-L was dead btw? I felt really bad for him because him and Lois never got to have children (they took Superboy in as their son and he betrayed them cold), they lost their Earth, and then he had to watch Lois die.....and then got beaten to death by Superboy...

That was a really anticlimatic end.

"Whatever Happened to the Man of Tommorow" had more of the storybook happy ending I'd expect from Superman.

[mego joe]

That is true. But after a point DC tends to favor one specific timeline; Earth One became that.


I would argue that they mergered the Earths so they could use all their characters in one universe. SOme characters like SUperman and Wonder Woman got completely new launches with significantly different backstories after Crisis on Infinite Earths. I would never mistake the post-Crisis SUperman for the Earth-1 Superman, to me they are completely different versions of the character, as different as Earth-1 to Earth-2.

Earth 2 then became an alternate version to One. Meaning the characters of Two had drastically different and divergent fates.


Essentially b/c they allowed them to age, get married, have kids, grow essentially unlike their Earth-1 counterparts who were perpetually stuck at about 32 years of age.


I thought Kal-L was dead btw?


DId you see the last page of Justice Society of America #1 that came out in December?

I felt really bad for him because him and Lois never got to have children (they took Superboy in as their son and he betrayed them cold), they lost their Earth, and then he had to watch Lois die.....and then got beaten to death by Superboy...


DOn't forget, Infinite Crisis also retconned Power Girl into being raised by Superman and Lois as an adoptive daughter as well as being his cousin.


That was a really anticlimatic end.


"It never ends for people like us."

Just look at the last page of JSA #1 and remember what Lois said when she 'died' in Infinite Crisis.

SUperman: It can't end like this (or something to that effect)

Lois: This isn't the end (or something to that effect)

"Whatever Happened to the Man of Tommorow" had more of the storybook happy ending I'd expect from Superman.

It certainly does. And it is one of my favorite SUperman stories of all time. Have you ever read "For the Man Who Has Everything" ?

Just to push us back to the forum thread (sort of), I don't see the universe in SR accomplishing that 'happy ending' like in "Man of Tommorow." THere's already too much baggage between SUperman/ Lois/ and Jason to dig out of.

[Justice Bringer]

The baggage is whats going to serve as obstacles to overcome till the end.

I personally can see the happy ending since Bryan didnt seem to put any tragic foreshadowing for Jason into SR. I doubt something bad will happen to him.

And Lois and Superman are meant to be together; I have a feeling the triangle may resolve itself in the sequel. Superman and Lois is the obvious outcome but the hero never gets the love interest in the first film.

And I read and saw "For the Man who has everything;" its evidence that Superman personally desires to have a family; wife, children.. while preserving his Kryptonian heritage.

[Delete]

I really don't want to see Lois and Superman get together. The dude who played Cyclops was the only likable character in the movie. I do not want to see his life go to crap.

[mego joe]

The baggage is whats going to serve as obstacles to overcome till the end.


ANd that is precisely why I have no interest in what comes next in a Bryan SInger sequel to SR. SUperman is not an absentee father. YEt he's not going to be able to be a father to his son, doens't sound happy to me. When Jason grows up and learns the truth he's going to be very hurt and have some serious issues. Doesn't sound happy to me.


I personally can see the happy ending since Bryan didnt seem to put any tragic foreshadowing for Jason into SR. I doubt something bad will happen to him.


As you can see I didn't mean that, I just meant that the baggage will be too great for SUpemran to ever really be a true father to Jason. And I wonder if Lois will ever get anything deeper than "It was too difficult" from Clark as the reason for why SUperman didn't say goodbye to her. Could she trust him after that? If she gets an answer is the answer going to make SUperman seem emotionally spineless?


And Lois and Superman are meant to be together; I have a feeling the triangle may resolve itself in the sequel. Superman and Lois is the obvious outcome but the hero never gets the love interest in the first film.


And b/c they are meant to be together, it seems wrong and uncharacteristic of their relationship to have them go through the whole hit and run boyfriend/ absentee father/ dysfunctional family storyline.



And I read and saw

Where did you see it?

"For the Man who has everything;" its evidence that Superman personally desires to have a family; wife, children.. while preserving his Kryptonian heritage.

Exactly, so why would he treat Lois so callously as is indicated in the backstory for SR? His actions don't indicate that he is interested in any of that. If that's important to him why not tell the woman he loves he's leaving for 5 years? WHy not tell her so she knows he cares about and understand the moral and ethical obligations of being in sexual a relationship and to the consequences of such.

BTW- "For the Man who has everything" is another one of my favorite Superman stories. Alan Moore writes good stuff, eh?

[Justice Bringer]

For the Man who has everything was a JLU episode as well; translated exactly from the comic.

Thats how I saw it.


I'm not going to debate the SR stuff though, you already know how I feel about it.

He can still be a father to Jason in the end if they end it WHttMoT style.


As far as the abandoning Lois and the son he never knew he had goes; lets see what happens in the sequel. They left alot of information about his journey to Krypton intentionally vague and more importantly *why* he left. The storyline with Lex and Stanford planting the evidence was cut and RtK may be used in the sequel. We may get a better explanation for Superman's motivations.

Lois has already forgiven him it seems and the kid seems to adore him regardless after Superman risked everything to save the world.

I think theres still hope for a familial dynamic there....eventually.

[VenomsMom]

I really don't want to see Lois and Superman get together. The dude who played Cyclops was the only likable character in the movie. I do not want to see his life go to crap.
Lol..yeah the man we are rooting for is Cyclops. Now Supes is crashing the party. What a pity.

[Matt]

I do find it interesting they say "plays to direct" or whatever the words are; its interesting because he is contractually obligated to do it yet they dont sound so sure.

Are you talking about Spacey's contract. Chances are, Spacey has enough Hollywood clout and a good enough agent that there are certain loop holes that can get him out of the contract...or at the very least a minimum number of days he has to shoot which will make it not even worth using him.

[mego joe]

For the Man who has everything was a JLU episode as well; translated exactly from the comic.

Thats how I saw it.


I didn't know that, I don't watch nearly any T.V. Were Batman, RObin and WOnder Woman all in it?



I'm not going to debate the SR stuff though, you already know how I feel about it.


Probably a wise decison. :)


He can still be a father to Jason in the end if they end it WHttMoT style.


How so? It seems like that ship has already sailed. In WHttMoT they are married when Jonathan is born. He's going to grow up his whole life only knowing his natural father, he's not going to have the conflicted feelings about who his real father is, biological (Superman) or the one that raised him (Richard) as Jason will.



As far as the abandoning Lois and the son he never knew he had goes; lets see what happens in the sequel. They left alot of information about his journey to Krypton intentionally vague and more importantly *why* he left.



IT seems clear enough from the movie that he considered telling Lois, but decided it was 'too difficult' and chose not to. I don't think SInger really intends to revisit plot points from SR in a sequel to explain what happened in the first movie.
[/quote]
The storyline with Lex and Stanford planting the evidence was cut and RtK may be used in the sequel. We may get a better explanation for Superman's motivations.
[/quote]

It might give greater explanation to why he wanted to go to Krypton, but I don't think it will impact why he was unable to be honest with Lois. That is strictly about Superman and Lois's relationship and has nothing to do with the planted story about Krypton.


Lois has already forgiven him it seems and the kid seems to adore him regardless after Superman risked everything to save the world.


I can't explain Lois, that doesn't make any sense to me. SHe never got a real answer.

As for Jason, how's he going to feel when he finds out the truth? Hurt? Betrayed? Abandoned?

I think theres still hope for a familial dynamic there....eventually.

I guess I just don't see all that baggage to work through as being indicative to the character of SUperman. SOunds more like Speedy and Chesire in respect to their daughter Lian.

[Justice Bringer]

Jor-el wasnt around for Kal-El's childhood anyways but his presense was still felt.

Ultimately Superman regards both Jonathan Kent and Jor-El as his father.

Jason, when hes older, could just as well be understanding of what happened to Superman during when Jason was a child and know Superman well enough by then to know truely what kind of person he is. Not holding anything against him and being glad/proud that Superman is his father and he tried to be part of his life.

They could really write Jason any way that suits them; and realistically they arent going to write Jason as some antagonistic force against Superman.

[mego joe]

Jor-el wasnt around for Kal-El's childhood anyways but his presense was still felt.


There was no other option for Jor-El, he was dead. A parent has a moral and ethical responsibility to raise a child he/she has conceived. Being dead is a good reason to not be able to do this. SUperman has no excuse like that.


Ultimately Superman regards both Jonathan Kent and Jor-El as his father.


But JOr-El had no other options, it was either save Kal-El or let him die. THere's a huge act of caring and love present there that Superman feels and understands.

There's no act of caring and love in SUperman leaving Lois high and dry without a word. There's no sense that he had any feeling of responsibility towards Lois because they were in a sexual relationship. All that is there is the sense that Superman acted irresponsibly and selfishly.

Jason, when hes older, could just as well be understanding of what happened to Superman during when Jason was a child and know Superman well enough by then to know truely what kind of person he is. Not holding anything against him and being glad/proud that Superman is his father and he tried to be part of his life.


In real life this type of situatin rarely works out this way. A big reason is that men that do this type of thing aren't truly kind and good people. Which is why it is uncharacteristic of SUperman to be in this situation.

They could really write Jason any way that suits them; and realistically they arent going to write Jason as some antagonistic force against Superman.

But it would just be such a break in feel and tone if everything is all hunky-dory with them and there's no conflict. I just see it as a way of Singer keeping SUperman as the loner and outsider that he identifies with.

[Justice Bringer]

I think Superman is over that. Jason is the one whos going to feel like the outcast now in future films.

And conflicts or not; things always tend to resolve positively. If Lois can forgive Superman, Jason (who adores Superman) can easily do the same IF he feels anything against Superman at all; which he most likely wont.

All the loose threads with the Kryptonian journey in SR will likely be resolved in the sequel. By the time Jason is a teenager, so much would have already happened with him and Superman; so many adventures, so many times he saved them, so many positive moments between them....its very unlikely he'll turn on Superman during his teenage years...and the events of SR wouldnt even be as relevant anymore.

But yea, the writers could write Jason anyway they want; and theyre more inclinded to write him in a manner that makes their story resolve in an ultimately positive way.

[mego joe]

I think Superman is over that. Jason is the one whos going to feel like the outcast now in future films.

And conflicts or not; things always tend to resolve positively. If Lois can forgive Superman, Jason (who adores Superman) can easily do the same IF he feels anything against Superman at all; which he most likely wont.

All the loose threads with the Kryptonian journey in SR will likely be resolved in the sequel. By the time Jason is a teenager, so much would have already happened with him and Superman; so many adventures, so many times he saved them, so many positive moments between them....its very unlikely he'll turn on Superman during his teenage years...and the events of SR wouldnt even be as relevant anymore.


Realistically, I think Jason will be extremely hurt when he discovers the truth and have some serious issues with Superman.


But yea, the writers could write Jason anyway they want; and theyre more inclinded to write him in a manner that makes their story resolve in an ultimately positive way.

To bad they didn't do that with SUperman Returns and write Superman in a manner that portrays SUperman in an ultimately positive way.

[Justice Bringer]

Because Superman Returns wasnt the final resolution.


And thats your interpretation of Jason but really; they could write him any way they want. Every person is different and hes just a 5/6 year old and only forming his personality and traits and this stage.

Its more than likely they wont write him as an antagonistic force against Superman. There may be conflict like in any familial unit but ultimately he'll most likely always love him as his father.

Its more Lois' business than Jason though. Superman was the one who left Lois; he had no knowledge of Jason and probably wouldnt have left had he known.

Lois was the one he intentionally decided not to say goodbye to and obviously she'd feel the most anger and sadness over it....but by the end of the film; they were on good terms; she told him the truth about Jason, she kissed him and she smiled as he said goodnight to her.

With Lois and Superman most likely in love with each other by the time Jason is a teenager; all the drama with Lois and Superman from SR likely wouldnt matter to him.

[mego joe]

Because Superman Returns wasnt the final resolution.


And thats your interpretation of Jason but really; they could write him any way they want. Every person is different and hes just a 5/6 year old and only forming his personality and traits and this stage.

Its more than likely they wont write him as an antagonistic force against Superman. There may be conflict like in any familial unit but ultimately he'll most likely always love him as his father.

Its more Lois' business than Jason though. Superman was the one who left Lois; he had no knowledge of Jason and probably wouldnt have left had he known.

Lois was the one he intentionally decided not to say goodbye to and obviously she'd feel the most anger and sadness over it....but by the end of the film; they were on good terms; she told him the truth about Jason, she kissed him and she smiled as he said goodnight to her.


LIke I said before, I still don't understand how Lois can accept not having a real reason at the end of SR.


With Lois and Superman most likely in love with each other by the time Jason is a teenager; all the drama with Lois and Superman from SR likely wouldnt matter to him.

Are you suggesting that Richard will be out of the picture and Jason will lose the only man he's known as his father?

Is Superman going to be a homewreaker or is Richard going to die?

How do you see that playing out?

[Justice Bringer]

LIke I said before, I still don't understand how Lois can accept not having a real reason at the end of SR

She did though.....just as Jason likely will.


Are you suggesting that Richard will be out of the picture and Jason will lose the only man he's known as his father?

Is Superman going to be a homewreaker or is Richard going to die?

How do you see that playing out

Richard and Lois breaking off the engagement due to issues unrelated to Superman was how I handled it in my own outline;

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=11370928&postcount=1


But its anyone's guess how they'll get Lois and Richard to break up and resolve the triangle. I really doubt Richard will die though....

But if you look at this logically, there was a reason Singer made Lois and Richard 'engaged' as opposed to married. Something will obviously happen that will cause them to call off the engagement and re-evaluate....and it may not necessarily be related to Superman.

[Delete]

She did though.....just as Jason likely will.




Richard and Lois breaking off the engagement due to issues unrelated to Superman was how I handled it in my own outline;

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=11370928&postcount=1


But its anyone's guess how they'll get Lois and Richard to break up and resolve the triangle. I really doubt Richard will die though....

But if you look at this logically, there was a reason Singer made Lois and Richard 'engaged' as opposed to married. Something will obviously happen that will cause them to call off the engagement and re-evaluate....and it may not necessarily be related to Superman.

It doesn't matter if they break off the engagement. He is still the kid's father no matter who got Lois pregnant.

[Lestat74]

She did though.....just as Jason likely will.




Richard and Lois breaking off the engagement due to issues unrelated to Superman was how I handled it in my own outline;

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=11370928&postcount=1


But its anyone's guess how they'll get Lois and Richard to break up and resolve the triangle. I really doubt Richard will die though....

But if you look at this logically, there was a reason Singer made Lois and Richard 'engaged' as opposed to married. Something will obviously happen that will cause them to call off the engagement and re-evaluate....and it may not necessarily be related to Superman.

Actually, I think Richard will be killed off in between films. he served his purpose ( cock blocking Superman ) and since there is no way that Lois can leave him without being a total *****, he'll be killed off. This leaves Lois to raise Jason alone, and Clark feeling the need to finally step up and be a real father to Jason and husband to Lois. Also, let's not forget Richard flies small planes....I hate to say it, but he may as well have a big target on his forhead.

[OzzMosiz]

Unbelievable! Can we get ONE Superman movie without the stupid conman Lex Luthor?! I wouldn't mind one bit if they had the Luthor from the cartoon in there, hell, even the one from Smallville will do.

errr it's called Superman 3 ;)

[Excel]

I think Richard should just go bow out once he figures out lois loves supes n not him, n that jasons not his son.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

^I hope they can come up with something that leaves all characters with dignity though, i liked Richard as a character, and wouldnt want him leaving the franchise on bad terms. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

[Delete]

I think Richard should just go bow out once he figures out lois loves supes n not him, n that jasons not his son.

Just because it wasn't his sperm doesn't mean it is not his son though. Hasn't anyone here not been raised by their biological parents.

[Spider-Bat]

Oh they had better have another villian besides just Lex, that is enough, yes Ke is good as him but that is enough of just Lex, maybe they can show him grow into a so called reformed business man but then he could be involved with another villian maybe Brainiac or he clones Supes creating Bizarro, but I don't know with stupid Singer nothing good comes from his take on things.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

^The writers have said numerous times that an alien villain will be included in the movie.

[Mysterio]

No, that's not what I said. That's not what I think. That's not what i'm doing.then how and why are people being unreasonable? explain.

[turtlefocker]

damn humanoids and there noids that are human

[Justice Bringer]

Actually, I think Richard will be killed off in between films. he served his purpose ( cock blocking Superman ) and since there is no way that Lois can leave him without being a total *****, he'll be killed off. This leaves Lois to raise Jason alone, and Clark feeling the need to finally step up and be a real father to Jason and husband to Lois. Also, let's not forget Richard flies small planes....I hate to say it, but he may as well have a big target on his forhead.

The thing is it would probably make more sense for him to die by the third film; AFTER him and Lois break off the engagement and Superman and Lois are back together.

That would lead to a more interesting situation.

The other issue is I'm not certain how long he was Jason's father. Whether he was just Lois' boyfriend who decided to formally adopt Jason when they decided to get engaged. Whether he already knew Superman was the father and was keeping it under wraps for Jason's safety. ...Lois certainly knew Superman was Jason's father all along. She was lying through he teeth when Lex confronted her with the truth.


Either way, the decision to make Richard and Lois' relationship into a 'prolonged engagement' as opposed to a marriage is probably a good sign that they plan to undo the engagement at some point.

[Alonsovich]

^The writers have said numerous times that an alien villain will be included in the movie.

Ty-Zor...:o

[Excel]

Ty-Zor...:o

you want someone marketable...:o

[Dark Knight]

She did though.....just as Jason likely will.




Richard and Lois breaking off the engagement due to issues unrelated to Superman was how I handled it in my own outline;

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=11370928&postcount=1


But its anyone's guess how they'll get Lois and Richard to break up and resolve the triangle. I really doubt Richard will die though....

But if you look at this logically, there was a reason Singer made Lois and Richard 'engaged' as opposed to married. Something will obviously happen that will cause them to call off the engagement and re-evaluate....and it may not necessarily be related to Superman.



I'm telling you....it would be much better and very unexpected for Jason to die trying to save Lois or Superman or perhaps both toward the end of the sequel. It would make for great drama and emotion and it will make the film that much better and memorable. Keeping Jason alive adds to many complications to future possible films.

[GhostPoet]

Forget Jason. I wanna see Luther and Brainiac kick butt and Superman smash giant robots. :)

[Justice Bringer]

I'm telling you....it would be much better and very unexpected for Jason to die trying to save Lois or Superman or perhaps both toward the end of the sequel. It would make for great drama and emotion and it will make the film that much better and memorable. Keeping Jason alive adds to many complications to future possible films.

Killing him off actually makes things more complicated.

Superman eventually with Lois and Jason as their son is a pretty simplistic concept.

Superman and Lois mourning the death of Jason would be really bad; they'd never be able to get together after something as dark as that happening.

[SymbioteKal-El]

Glad to hear Spacey is back, he's a great actor and was great as Lex

[Tyler23]

Spacey will be one of two, or possibly three villains.

I like the inclusion as long as he takes more of a backseat this time around.

[Eros]

Spacey will be one of two, or possibly three villains.

I like the inclusion as long as he takes more of a backseat this time around.

I dought they wil do 3 superpowered villians, that never turns out well.

[Tyler23]

If they do go with three, I suspect they'd introduce the third toward the end, and maybe keep his intentions/background a mystery in order to properly setup the next film.

[Dark Knight]

Killing him off actually makes things more complicated.

Superman eventually with Lois and Jason as their son is a pretty simplistic concept.

Superman and Lois mourning the death of Jason would be really bad; they'd never be able to get together after something as dark as that happening.



Sure they would.....

[FaT_tONle]

I'm telling you....it would be much better and very unexpected for Jason to die trying to save Lois or Superman or perhaps both toward the end of the sequel. It would make for great drama and emotion and it will make the film that much better and memorable. Keeping Jason alive adds to many complications to future possible films.

They aren't going to kill off the kid in a PG-13 flick man comon... as much as the kid sticks a fork in future sequels... we are stuck with it... believe me I am the first person who would sign on for this.. but if anything... it would be Richard sacrificing himself when the moment came. Just send the kid off to a private school... but yeah I'd kill him if I could write the script

[Mr. Socko]

I was watching G4 today. When the news started they mentioned that Singer will be filming MOS next year because he's doing two other movies first and that Spacey will return. Yeah I know we've known this for a while. Just thought I'd share it with everyone that it was stated on tv too. :)

[Dark Knight]

They aren't going to kill off the kid in a PG-13 flick man comon... as much as the kid sticks a fork in future sequels... we are stuck with it... believe me I am the first person who would sign on for this.. but if anything... it would be Richard sacrificing himself when the moment came. Just send the kid off to a private school... but yeah I'd kill him if I could write the script


But the Potter films are PG13 now and they killed a kid in the Goblet of Fire. More are to come in the future Potter films.

Heck....even in the Return of the Sith....a PG13 film....younglings were massacred unfortunately.

[FaT_tONle]

But the Potter films are PG13 now and they killed a kid in the Goblet of Fire. More are to come in the future Potter films.

Heck....even in the Return of the Sith....a PG13 film....younglings were massacred unfortunately.

Yeah but you won't see a little boy going "Mommy watch OUT!!!!!!!!!!!" (Thump :wow: :wow: :wow: )

[FaT_tONle]

I was watching G4 today. When the news started they mentioned that Singer will be filming MOS next year because he's doing two other movies first and that Spacey will return. Yeah I know we've known this for a while. Just thought I'd share it with everyone that it was stated on tv too. :)

Yeah we should have know Deep throat was deep throating poopsicles from his mouth.... I mean I will admit I have been flip slopping back and forth with my stance on this thing... but I am thinking its MOS for 09... not JLA... but that can change next week with another report... so time will only tell...

[Lestat74]

The thing is it would probably make more sense for him to die by the third film; AFTER him and Lois break off the engagement and Superman and Lois are back together.

That would lead to a more interesting situation.

The other issue is I'm not certain how long he was Jason's father. Whether he was just Lois' boyfriend who decided to formally adopt Jason when they decided to get engaged. Whether he already knew Superman was the father and was keeping it under wraps for Jason's safety. ...Lois certainly knew Superman was Jason's father all along. She was lying through he teeth when Lex confronted her with the truth.


Either way, the decision to make Richard and Lois' relationship into a 'prolonged engagement' as opposed to a marriage is probably a good sign that they plan to undo the engagement at some point.

See, to me the movie implied that Richard thought he was Jason's dad ( although clearly Lois always suspected he was not ) Also, Richard never treats Superman with any kind of suspicion or weirdness...which I think he would if he even suspected this was the father of the child he considers his son.

The audience clearly wants Superman and Lois to get together, and the only way to do that is to have Richard out of the picture. And unlike J Jonah Jameson's son in Spider-Man 2, Richard is actually likable, so having Lois "leave him at the altar" would make her very unsympathetic to say the least. So I think poor Richard is toast. I'm not really sure how else to do it without making the new movie even more of a soap opera than Superman Returns was.

[FaT_tONle]

Looks like Marsden is gonna bite the dust yet again... ouch... guy can't get any love... why do you take these roles bro?

[Justice Bringer]

See, to me the movie implied that Richard thought he was Jason's dad ( although clearly Lois always suspected he was not ) Also, Richard never treats Superman with any kind of suspicion or weirdness...which I think he would if he even suspected this was the father of the child he considers his son.


Richard was suspicious of the degree of Superman and Lois' past relationship.

"Did you love him?"

And in the final scenes he seemed to be encouraging towards Lois and Jason seeing Superman one last time.

[Showtime]

I was watching G4 today. When the news started they mentioned that Singer will be filming MOS next year because he's doing two other movies first and that Spacey will return. Yeah I know we've known this for a while. Just thought I'd share it with everyone that it was stated on tv too. :)

That confirms what Billy Batson posted earlier about the G4 feed. The question is where is G4 getting their news, it might be based on what we already are reading on the internet and not an additional source.

[manofsteel4life]

I was watching G4 today. When the news started they mentioned that Singer will be filming MOS next year because he's doing two other movies first and that Spacey will return. Yeah I know we've known this for a while. Just thought I'd share it with everyone that it was stated on tv too. :)
THAT'S GREAT....BUT ACCORDING TO DOUBTERS...IT STILL AINT ENOUGH FOR THEM

[Delete]

The audience clearly wants Superman and Lois to get together

How is this clear?

[turtlefocker]

How is this clear?

Egzactly

[BULLITT]

This totally blows !!!! http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a310/BRIANBORU/smkick.gif

[Lestat74]

How is this clear?

simply because Superman and Lois Lane are one of the most famous and beloved romantic couplings in pop culture ever. I would say most people would naturally want the fairy tale ending for those two.

[hoopy3]

The problem is...with the story in SR, the fairy tale no longer exists. Watching that movie, Richard White is not only likable, but heroic as well...his personality is what clark's should have been. I don't see anyway to have Lois and Clark get together without leaving a sour taste in the audience's mouth...Killing Richard would be a total cop out.

[Steelsheen]

Yeah we should have know Deep throat was deep throating poopsicles from his mouth.... I mean I will admit I have been flip slopping back and forth with my stance on this thing... but I am thinking its MOS for 09... not JLA... but that can change next week with another report... so time will only tell...
so you finally saw the light ;)


That confirms what Billy Batson posted earlier about the G4 feed. The question is where is G4 getting their news, it might be based on what we already are reading on the internet and not an additional source.
that's a very good question, i'm just hoping that they check with some legit WB sources before they make a fool of themselves on TV.

[Kevin Roegele]

They aren't going to kill off the kid in a PG-13 flick man comon... as much as the kid sticks a fork in future sequels... we are stuck with it... believe me I am the first person who would sign on for this.. but if anything... it would be Richard sacrificing himself when the moment came. Just send the kid off to a private school... but yeah I'd kill him if I could write the script

:up: Spot-on. If anyone dies, it will be Richard.

[dark_b]

i dont think that richard will die. it would be to obvious.
you know like the kid being from superman............whait a minute :dry:

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

That confirms what Billy Batson posted earlier about the G4 feed. The question is where is G4 getting their news, it might be based on what we already are reading on the internet and not an additional source.

It might be, but i doubt they would broadcast something like that without checking it was true first.

[FlawlessVictory]

simply because Superman and Lois Lane are one of the most famous and beloved romantic couplings in pop culture ever. I would say most people would naturally want the fairy tale ending for those two.

If I actually cared for Superman in SR then I would agree with you. But, Richard came across for me as far more a likeable character than Superman. I can't care for a character who has sex with a girl without telling her who he really is even though he supposedly loves her so much. I can't care for a character who doesn't even bother to stick around to see if she gets pregnant. And I can't care for a character who doesn't even have the decency to tell loved ones he will be leaving them for an extended period of time. This wasn't Superman to me so seeing him be with Lois at the end would feel hollow to me.

[Kryptonian Warrior]

If I actually cared for Superman in SR then I would agree with you. But, Richard came across for me as far more a likeable character than Superman. I can't care for a character who has sex with a girl without telling her who he really is even though he supposedly loves her so much. I can't care for a character who doesn't even bother to stick around to see if she gets pregnant. And I can't care for a character who doesn't even have the decency to tell loved ones he will be leaving them for an extended period of time. This wasn't Superman to me so seeing him be with Lois at the end would feel hollow to me.
If you hate it so much, then why would you watch it?

[FlawlessVictory]

If you hate it so much, then why would you watch it?

You don't know you hate a movie until after you have watched it. And I don't hate it, I was just extremely disappointed with it.

[dark_b]

If you hate it so much, then why would you watch it?


shouldnt you watch the movie to see if you like it or not ?

[FaT_tONle]

so you finally saw the light ;)

Actually 2010 is still open... so if its MOS in 09... it only strengthens the case of a JLA in 2010 without Batman... I can't see Bale playing the same character on three occassions in two franchises in four years... so I still firmly believe Batman will have no role in a JLA before 2011.

[true316]

If I actually cared for Superman in SR then I would agree with you. But, Richard came across for me as far more a likeable character than Superman. I can't care for a character who has sex with a girl without telling her who he really is even though he supposedly loves her so much. I can't care for a character who doesn't even bother to stick around to see if she gets pregnant. And I can't care for a character who doesn't even have the decency to tell loved ones he will be leaving them for an extended period of time. This wasn't Superman to me so seeing him be with Lois at the end would feel hollow to me.

I see your point but I also disagree to some extent. You mention having sex with Lois without her knowing who he really is as a problem. In the post crisis comics version Clark is the real person and Superman is the disguise. However in SR and the traditional Superman mythology, Superman is the real person and Clark is a disguise. It isn't like she was having sex with a fake person. Also about sticking around to see if someone gets pregnant, that really points to the more fundamental nature of unexpected pregnancies. They're unexpected! We don't know the details of their sexual encounter (and imo we don't need to know; there is such a thing as too much information!). Did they use a condom? Superman may have incorrectly assumed (as many people do) that it is a 100% effective means of preventing pregnancy. Superman also may have incorrectly assumed that since he is an alien, he wouldn't be able to have a child with Lois. Superman making a mistake of this nature isn't enough for me to turn my back on him. The bottom line is, I have full confidence if he would have known Lois was pregnant he wouldn't have left. That makes a huge difference to me. Also you mention Superman not telling loved ones as a problem. But let me ask you, how many loved ones does Superman have? Lois? According to Superman 2, whatever relationship they had was over. I don't feel compelled to tell ex-girlfriends of my future plans (although Superman indicates regretting not telling her). That leaves Johnathan and Martha Kent. Johnathan is dead and Martha? He told her he was leaving. The one loved one he really had knew he was going.

What do you think? I'm not really trying to convince you, just give you a different perspective to consider. The reason I care about Superman in SR is because I see in him, someone who cares about others to the point that he is prepared to give his life for them. I've never seen a major super hero get injured so badly that he ended up in the hospital (in a movie). To me it made this film and this character very compelling. :up:

[Qwerty©]

What defines him as Superman in this film is that shortly after finding out Lois no longer loves him, he immediately goes back to fighting crime, despite being so obviously affected emotionally. Because it's his duty.

[Matt]

What defines him as Superman in this film is that shortly after finding out Lois no longer loves him, he immediately goes back to fighting crime, despite being so obviously affected emotionally. Because it's his duty.

ANd yet he still finds time to super-stalk Lois :cwink:

[I SEE SPIDEY]

^*chuckle*

[Pickle-El]

What defines him as Superman in this film is that shortly after finding out Lois no longer loves him, he immediately goes back to fighting crime, despite being so obviously affected emotionally. Because it's his duty.

It's better than sulking for 1/2 hour, losing his powers, and watching people get beat up while he has the chance to do something about it!

:)

[I SEE SPIDEY]

It's better than sulking for 1/2 hour, losing his powers, and watching people get beat up while he has the chance to do something about it!

:)Spider-Man isn't Superman.

[Pickle-El]

Oh excuse me....Supes isn't allowed faults, I forgot. Yet, we'll 'allow' Spidey to get away with things that are easily just as bad as 'superstalking'.

Like what I said above, and pushing his future wife around....wifebeater Peter.

[Grinder]

Peter is a teen resp. young man who still constantly makes errors to learn from them whereas Superman already knows how to behave!

Well, of course not Singerman BUT Superman WOULD know better!

[FlawlessVictory]

I see your point but I also disagree to some extent. You mention having sex with Lois without her knowing who he really is as a problem. In the post crisis comics version Clark is the real person and Superman is the disguise. However in SR and the traditional Superman mythology, Superman is the real person and Clark is a disguise. It isn't like she was having sex with a fake person.

But, if Superman is having sex with someone, one would assume that he loves this person and if he loves this person why does he feel the need to hide secrets from her. What's the harm in telling her that he is Clark as well. Does he not trust her then? It just seems sleezy that he is sleeping with her and then is interacting with her at the office when Lois doesn't know Clark is Superman as well. I find that wrong. And this is perhaps one of my biggest problems with the movie. Superman has sex with Lois, an act that is considered sharing yourself with someone, yet he is unable to reveal that he is Clark as well, even if Clark is not the real identity? I find that quite bizarre.

Also about sticking around to see if someone gets pregnant, that really points to the more fundamental nature of unexpected pregnancies. They're unexpected! We don't know the details of their sexual encounter (and imo we don't need to know; there is such a thing as too much information!). Did they use a condom? Superman may have incorrectly assumed (as many people do) that it is a 100% effective means of preventing pregnancy. Superman also may have incorrectly assumed that since he is an alien, he wouldn't be able to have a child with Lois. Superman making a mistake of this nature isn't enough for me to turn my back on him. The bottom line is, I have full confidence if he would have known Lois was pregnant he wouldn't have left. That makes a huge difference to me.

I'm willing to accept what I put in bold.

Also you mention Superman not telling loved ones as a problem. But let me ask you, how many loved ones does Superman have? Lois? According to Superman 2, whatever relationship they had was over. I don't feel compelled to tell ex-girlfriends of my future plans (although Superman indicates regretting not telling her). That leaves Johnathan and Martha Kent. Johnathan is dead and Martha? He told her he was leaving. The one loved one he really had knew he was going.

Ok, you're right on that one. I guess he only has Martha and Lois as loved ones and he did tell Martha that he will be gone for awhile. But now are you referencing Superman 2 which is not entirely accurate. Singer has gone on record on many occasions stating that the past history between Superman and Lois is not based off of Superman 2. Yes, there was an intimate relationship between Superman and Lois before SR but not what we saw in Superman 2. Here is just one quote from Singer:

Well, I didn't really stick to that. Y'know, the mylar bed. And the cocktails in the Fortress of Solitude. I wouldn't want to bring that up. All I wanted to reference is they had had a previous, there was some sort of previous relations between them.
http://www.superherohype.com/news/featuresnews.php?id=4972

What do you think? I'm not really trying to convince you, just give you a different perspective to consider. The reason I care about Superman in SR is because I see in him, someone who cares about others to the point that he is prepared to give his life for them. I've never seen a major super hero get injured so badly that he ended up in the hospital (in a movie). To me it made this film and this character very compelling. :up:

The thing that gets to me is that what the entire movie is based upon, Superman not telling Lois goodbye and its consequences, is just something that I would think Superman would never do. However, you brought up an interesting idea, that even though the relationship in Superman 2 is not in continuity with the relationship in SR, we don't know for a fact that Superman and Lois were in a committed relationship when he left. They could have decided for whatever reason to separate and shortly thereafter he could have then taken his trip to Krypton. This idea is quite a stretch but since the history for SR is so vague not impossible to entertain.

[Steelsheen]

Actually 2010 is still open... so if its MOS in 09... it only strengthens the case of a JLA in 2010 without Batman... I can't see Bale playing the same character on three occassions in two franchises in four years... so I still firmly believe Batman will have no role in a JLA before 2011.

i meant about what you said about DeepThroatWB ;)

you have more faith on release dates about JLA than i do, and between the two of us, i'm the bigger supporter. frankly, i take some consolation in that. keeps things in balance ;)

[Dark Knight]

i dont think that richard will die. it would be to obvious.
you know like the kid being from superman............whait a minute :dry:



LOL.....Exactly....

[jrd550]

I think the kid will die, maybe at the very end of the second film - and superman will end up without his son, and without lois since she'll ultimately blame her sons death on superman (if he was Richard's kid Lex wouldn't care about him)...

[Matt]

Oh excuse me....Supes isn't allowed faults, I forgot. Yet, we'll 'allow' Spidey to get away with things that are easily just as bad as 'superstalking'.

Like what I said above, and pushing his future wife around....wifebeater Peter.

You're comparing apples and oranges. Spider-Man is essentially a child (I believe he is only 21 or 22 as of S-M3), who was under the influence of a symbiote and for all extensive purposes possessed. Where as Superman is a fully grown adult who should be more responsible than to run off immedietly after sleeping with someone he claims to love and then stalking her afterwards.

[Delete]

The problem is...with the story in SR, the fairy tale no longer exists. Watching that movie, Richard White is not only likable, but heroic as well...his personality is what clark's should have been. I don't see anyway to have Lois and Clark get together without leaving a sour taste in the audience's mouth...Killing Richard would be a total cop out.

This was basically what my answer was going to be.

[Matt]

:up: Spot-on. If anyone dies, it will be Richard.

The thing is, I'm not sure Singer would do that. Singer has clearly become rather close with Mardsen and enjoys having him around on his films. That could very much effect the decision of what to do with Richard.

[Matt]

The problem is...with the story in SR, the fairy tale no longer exists. Watching that movie, Richard White is not only likable, but heroic as well...his personality is what clark's should have been. I don't see anyway to have Lois and Clark get together without leaving a sour taste in the audience's mouth...Killing Richard would be a total cop out.

Exactly, they made someone who is essentially an antagonist into the most likeable person in the movie. I am suprised more people do not see how problematic that is.

[Showtime]

Exactly, they made someone who is essentially an antagonist into the most likeable person in the movie. I am suprised more people do not see how problematic that is.

It's kind interesting with how they handled Richard, I believe the intention was to not make it easy to hate Richard, to not let it become a cliche. The problem is they made Richard too likable and some thought he was more likeable than Superman. So I understand why they made Richard likeable, but I think it just was overkill in some respects.

[Matt]

It's kind interesting with how they handled Richard, I believe the intention was to not make it easy to hate Richard, to not let it become a cliche. The problem is they made Richard too likable and some thought he was more likeable than Superman. So I understand why they made Richard likeable, but I think it just was overkill in some respects.

Its a very fine line to walk. Raimi did it in Spider-Man 2. He made John Jameson the exact opposite of Flash Thompson. The thing is, he didn't constantly have the spot light on him. Even though people like Richard and John are likable, they are for story telling purposes antagonists. If you focus too much on Richard (as Singer did) and see that he is just such a perfect person, you begin to question who you are rooting for. In the end, a lot of people ended up liking Richard more than Big Blue, which turns Supes into the antagonist of Richard (who from their perspective became the protagnist). If you want to do the likable competition type thing...you have to keep the person in the background. You can't let the audience grow too attached to them, and that is exactly what Singer did.

[manofsteel4life]

I see your point but I also disagree to some extent. You mention having sex with Lois without her knowing who he really is as a problem. In the post crisis comics version Clark is the real person and Superman is the disguise. However in SR and the traditional Superman mythology, Superman is the real person and Clark is a disguise. It isn't like she was having sex with a fake person. Also about sticking around to see if someone gets pregnant, that really points to the more fundamental nature of unexpected pregnancies. They're unexpected! We don't know the details of their sexual encounter (and imo we don't need to know; there is such a thing as too much information!). Did they use a condom? Superman may have incorrectly assumed (as many people do) that it is a 100% effective means of preventing pregnancy. Superman also may have incorrectly assumed that since he is an alien, he wouldn't be able to have a child with Lois. Superman making a mistake of this nature isn't enough for me to turn my back on him. The bottom line is, I have full confidence if he would have known Lois was pregnant he wouldn't have left. That makes a huge difference to me. Also you mention Superman not telling loved ones as a problem. But let me ask you, how many loved ones does Superman have? Lois? According to Superman 2, whatever relationship they had was over. I don't feel compelled to tell ex-girlfriends of my future plans (although Superman indicates regretting not telling her). That leaves Johnathan and Martha Kent. Johnathan is dead and Martha? He told her he was leaving. The one loved one he really had knew he was going.

What do you think? I'm not really trying to convince you, just give you a different perspective to consider. The reason I care about Superman in SR is because I see in him, someone who cares about others to the point that he is prepared to give his life for them. I've never seen a major super hero get injured so badly that he ended up in the hospital (in a movie). To me it made this film and this character very compelling. :up:
bravo!! This is the reason i like Singers take on Supes

[manofsteel4life]

What defines him as Superman in this film is that shortly after finding out Lois no longer loves him, he immediately goes back to fighting crime, despite being so obviously affected emotionally. Because it's his duty.
http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/icon14.gif

[Matt]

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/icon14.gif

That would be worthy of a thumb up if it were true, but its clearly not being as Supes spends a good portion of the movie moping.

[manofsteel4life]

ANd yet he still finds time to super-stalk Lois :cwink:
i think you are taking the whole stalking thing to another level. This is Lois you are talking about....the woman he loves....not some random woman on the street that Supes is checking out

[Matt]

i think you are taking the whole stalking thing to another level. This is Lois you are talking about....the woman he loves....not some random woman on the street that Supes is checking out

Most stalkers will claim they love their victims and usually have a past relationship with them.

And if he "loves" her, why didn't he bother saying goodbye. He has no problem laying her, but he can't say goodbye before he goes on a journey that will take him billions of lightyears away?

[manofsteel4life]

Most stalkers will claim they love their victims and usually have a past relationship with them.

And if he "loves" her, why didn't he bother saying goodbye. He has no problem laying her, but he can't say goodbye before he goes on a journey that will take him billions of lightyears away?
i feel you....im not saying what he did was right....but im just looking at it as telling my girlfriend that ive been activated into active duty....yea i should tell her...but can i handle it, if she tries to stop me...or if she tells me its over?....most people would tell....but it aint easy either.

[Matt]

i feel you....im not saying what he did was right....but im just looking at it as telling my girlfriend that ive been activated into active duty....yea i should tell her...but can i handle it, if she tries to stop me...or if she tells me its over?....most people would tell....but it aint easy either.

So you're just going to go to Iraq and not tell her? Plus, it is a different situation. You can still have video conferences with her, phone calls with her, letters, email, etc. Superman literally disappeared right after bedding a woman he claims to love.

[Excel]

Its a very fine line to walk. Raimi did it in Spider-Man 2. He made John Jameson the exact opposite of Flash Thompson. The thing is, he didn't constantly have the spot light on him. Even though people like Richard and John are likable, they are for story telling purposes antagonists. If you focus too much on Richard (as Singer did) and see that he is just such a perfect person, you begin to question who you are rooting for. In the end, a lot of people ended up liking Richard more than Big Blue, which turns Supes into the antagonist of Richard (who from their perspective became the protagnist). If you want to do the likable competition type thing...you have to keep the person in the background. You can't let the audience grow too attached to them, and that is exactly what Singer did.

Eh, Richard had 10x as much screentime as John Jameson did. I think the only thing they can do is give Richard les to do and give Superman more.

[manofsteel4life]

So you're just going to go to Iraq and not tell her? Plus, it is a different situation. You can still have video conferences with her, phone calls with her, letters, email, etc. Superman literally disappeared right after bedding a woman he claims to love.
like i said most people would....and yes i would also....but i understand how difficult it would have been to tell her....but remember he probably thought she was still upset about him just flying off after S2

[Matt]

Eh, Richard had 10x as much screentime as John Jameson did. I think the only thing they can do is give Richard les to do and give Superman more.

Exactly. RIchard had 10x more screen time than John Jameson. When you make a character who is that geniunely nice and decent with so much screen time, of course the audience is going to latch onto him. That is why John Jameson did not cross the line and Richard did.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

That would be worthy of a thumb up if it were true, but its clearly not being as Supes spends a good portion of the movie moping.

And he also spends a good portion of the movie saving people as well, so what is your point?

Most stalkers will claim they love their victims and usually have a past relationship with them.

And if he "loves" her, why didn't he bother saying goodbye. He has no problem laying her, but he can't say goodbye before he goes on a journey that will take him billions of lightyears away?

IMO he didnt want to say goodbye because he didnt want to see the pain on Lois' face when he told her, some people call that selfish, i dont, i think its a genuine feeling as if i had it my way, NON of my loved ones would EVER feel pain again.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Exactly. RIchard had 10x more screen time than John Jameson. When you make a character who is that geniunely nice and decent with so much screen time, of course the audience is going to latch onto him. That is why John Jameson did not cross the line and Richard did.

Hence why i liked SR so much, in Spiderman 2, great movie though it is, you just KNEW that by the end of the movie PP and MJ would be together, in SR, you were left guessing until the end, even then you didnt know what lies ahead.

[Excel]

Well yeah; but it's moreso that Singer tried so hard to make it challenging for Supes to return to normal life that literally IS impossible. Even Singer may not have a way out of the problems he made for Supes that make sense.

[manofsteel4life]

And he also spends a good portion of the movie saving people as well, so what is your point?



IMO he didnt want to say goodbye because he didnt want to see the pain on Lois' face when he told her, some people call that selfish, i dont, i think its a genuine feeling as if i had it my way, NON of my loved ones would EVER feel pain again.
http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/icon14.gif

[manofsteel4life]

Well yeah; but it's moreso that Singer tried so hard to make it challenging for Supes to return to normal life that literally IS impossible. Even Singer may not have a way out of the problems he made for Supes that make sense.
so you think Singer made this movie, with the intention, of making him and everyone confused as to where to go with the sequel?

[mego joe]

If I actually cared for Superman in SR then I would agree with you. But, Richard came across for me as far more a likeable character than Superman. I can't care for a character who has sex with a girl without telling her who he really is even though he supposedly loves her so much. I can't care for a character who doesn't even bother to stick around to see if she gets pregnant. And I can't care for a character who doesn't even have the decency to tell loved ones he will be leaving them for an extended period of time. This wasn't Superman to me so seeing him be with Lois at the end would feel hollow to me.

BIngo, nice post.

[Qwerty©]

That would be worthy of a thumb up if it were true, but its clearly not being as Supes spends a good portion of the movie moping.He only mopes in that one scene, and then goes of to stop crime immediately afterwards. When was the last time you saw the film?

[I SEE SPIDEY]

You're comparing apples and oranges. Spider-Man is essentially a child (I believe he is only 21 or 22 as of S-M3), who was under the influence of a symbiote and for all extensive purposes possessed. Where as Superman is a fully grown adult who should be more responsible than to run off immedietly after sleeping with someone he claims to love and then stalking her afterwards.I was going to write the exact same thing today but you already did it for me so there is no need.

[GreenKToo]

I would imagine its hard to relate to superman going to Lois's house and looking/listening to them unless you have loved and lost someone.

Who knows what he was thinking by doing that. Maybe he just wanted to see what kind of life he could have had with Lois, something normal you know.

Personally I think the scene would have played better IF he had already known jason was his son.

[Showtime]

I would imagine its hard to relate to superman going to Lois's house and looking/listening to them unless you have loved and lost someone.

Who knows what he was thinking by doing that. Maybe he just wanted to see what kind of life he could have had with Lois, something normal you know.

Personally I think the scene would have played better IF he had already known jason was his son.

I really thought nothing of the scene the first time I watched the movie. I had no problem with it. I didn't have a problem with it in subsequent viewings either. The reason being is because many incarnations of Superman feature him using his powers for spying on Lois and others. For those who really know the mythos related to comic books and other media, realize that Superman has done this for years.

That being said I can still understand why some have a problem with it but I think it is more a sign of the times than anything.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I would imagine its hard to relate to superman going to Lois's house and looking/listening to them unless you have loved and lost someone.

Who knows what he was thinking by doing that. Maybe he just wanted to see what kind of life he could have had with Lois, something normal you know.

Personally I think the scene would have played better IF he had already known jason was his son.

I think that is one of the reasons he went there and did what he did, another reason to me was he went to talk to her but instead of busting into the house, he thought he'd check to see if it was a bad time or not. After listening to the conversation, he obviously heard all that he needed to.

Plus, something that people fail to remember is, at this point, i'll bet Superman is feeling more lonely than ever, he's just come back from a failed mission to find others like him, and come's back to find the woman he leves has moved on. Wouldnt you feel pretty lonely in that situation?

[Showtime]

Its a very fine line to walk. Raimi did it in Spider-Man 2. He made John Jameson the exact opposite of Flash Thompson. The thing is, he didn't constantly have the spot light on him. Even though people like Richard and John are likable, they are for story telling purposes antagonists. If you focus too much on Richard (as Singer did) and see that he is just such a perfect person, you begin to question who you are rooting for. In the end, a lot of people ended up liking Richard more than Big Blue, which turns Supes into the antagonist of Richard (who from their perspective became the protagnist). If you want to do the likable competition type thing...you have to keep the person in the background. You can't let the audience grow too attached to them, and that is exactly what Singer did.

I think it's hard for me to compare John Jameson with Richard, because as you said Richard had a bigger role in Returns. It charms me that you know and understand the role of protagonists and antanogists so well, because it is a very important process in writing. I love it.

You can bring an antagonist into the forefront and make them likeable if they are eventually going to turn...well...heel from a face, to use a wrestling term. If the character is not going to turn, then you are in danger of entering a Richard type situation.

[GreenKToo]

I really thought nothing of the scene the first time I watched the movie. I had no problem with it. I didn't have a problem with it in subsequent viewings either. The reason being is because many incarnations of Superman feature him using his powers for spying on Lois and others. For those who really know the mythos related to comic books and other media, realize that Superman has done this for years.

That being said I can still understand why some have a problem with it but I think it is more a sign of the times than anything.

It never bothered me either. Only two scenes in the film really bothered me, and they both involved Lex.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I don't particularly care for the "stalking" scene but I have to say that it didn't bother me nearly as much as a lot of people on here. It was a silly scene to be sure but there are bigger fish for me to fry.

I can't get over the fact that Superman didn't tell Lois his secret idenity before he slept with her and left before he said goodbye. That doesn't make him human that makes him a selfish bastard.

I can't get over Lois sleeping with a man she didn't even really know, even if it was Superman! Lois obviously doesn't have much self respect. Mj kissed Spider-Man, she didn't have a go at him. I can't get over the fact that she slept with a man so shortly after sleeping with another that she didn't even know who her baby daddy was.

I can't get over the fact that Supes think that it's okay that his son doesn't know who his real father is.

I can't over the fact that jokes about bald men are still being made in the 2000's, I mean seriously a child seeing a bald man is not shocking in anyway, are we living in the 70's?

I can't get over the fact that despite ground breaking SFX in this day and age the best the writers and the studio could think to do with Superman is have him lift things.

I can't get over the fact that we are still using the tired same old Hackman Lex after all of the updates the character has recived. We still get the supposedly smart guy who hires idiots to do his bidding.

I can't get over the fact that younger looking actors were playing the older versions of Donners characters.

I can't get over the fact that Lois had more do in the movie than Superman.

I can't get over the fact that the movie features another land takeover plot.

I can't over the fact that the movie cast a 24 year old who looks like a 20year as a 35year old Lois Lane. A 24 year who didn't have enough spunk to in anyway make me forget that fact.

I can't get over the fact that the movie is stuck in the semi 1930's/40's world.

I can't get over the fact that we still have to see the ridiculous bumbling goofy Clark routine from the 70's.

I can't get over the fact that after 5 movies we still have't seen an actual Superman villain from the comics outside of Lex.

And finally...

I can't get over the fact that WB spent 200mil on movie movie and only a 100 showed up on screen.

Superstalker is stupid and lame but it's the least of my worries.

[Showtime]

I could kiss you...

[Matt]

Bravo I See Spidey. Just for the record, I wasn't complaining about the super-stalking. I mean, sure, it was a stupid plot device and there are far better ways to show Clark's affection for Lois. I was just pointing out how wrong Jamon's comments about Clark moving on as soon as he saw Lois did were.

[Matt]

I would imagine its hard to relate to superman going to Lois's house and looking/listening to them unless you have loved and lost someone.


OMG! Have you seen the subtitle for the new Superman movie!?!?!

Superman Returns 2: Superman Makes a Mixed Tape

:cwink:

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Oh God you guys are embarrassing me epspecially you Showtime.:o

I understood what the point of your post was Matt and I know that you are the last person who would hate or dislike a movie based on nit picking, it's just that the bulk of the anti SR fans are giving us a bad name by saying that they didn't like the movie because Superman "stalked" Lois or that he's costume wasn't right.

[Matt]

I think it's hard for me to compare John Jameson with Richard, because as you said Richard had a bigger role in Returns. It charms me that you know and understand the role of protagonists and antanogists so well, because it is a very important process in writing. I love it.

You can bring an antagonist into the forefront and make them likeable if they are eventually going to turn...well...heel from a face, to use a wrestling term. If the character is not going to turn, then you are in danger of entering a Richard type situation.

Exactly, and whether or not people want to admit it...it does create a problem from a story telling perspective. No matter what out they use, the audience will probably feel shafted in one way or another.

[Matt]

Oh god

Hey, I'd watch it :cwink:

[GreenKToo]

OMG! Have you seen the subtitle for the new Superman movie!?!?!

Superman Returns 2: Superman Makes a Mixed Tape

:cwink:

Ha, ha.:woot:

[Showtime]

Exactly, and whether or not people want to admit it...it does create a problem from a story telling perspective. No matter what out they use, the audience will probably feel shafted in one way or another.

You are exactly right about that. They were a couple very problematic story choices.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Hey, I'd watch it :cwink:Hey that wasn't my entire post, I had more to say but accidently hit submit reply.

[Superman1314]

Its a very fine line to walk. Raimi did it in Spider-Man 2. He made John Jameson the exact opposite of Flash Thompson. The thing is, he didn't constantly have the spot light on him. Even though people like Richard and John are likable, they are for story telling purposes antagonists. If you focus too much on Richard (as Singer did) and see that he is just such a perfect person, you begin to question who you are rooting for. In the end, a lot of people ended up liking Richard more than Big Blue, which turns Supes into the antagonist of Richard (who from their perspective became the protagnist). If you want to do the likable competition type thing...you have to keep the person in the background. You can't let the audience grow too attached to them, and that is exactly what Singer did.


I think it was intentional on Singers part, and I think he didn an outstanding job with it. Unlike John Jameson, whom i couldn't care less about, and did not give a crap wether MJ ended up with him, I actually ended up liking Richard...and in the end..when I was made to go "Wait a minute, who do I want Lois to end up with?" I was torn..and it was brilliant.

[Showtime]

Oh God you guys are embarrassing me epspecially you Showtime.:o

It's ok, we all blush sometimes. :cwink:

[GreenKToo]

I think it was intentional on Singers part, and I think he didn an outstanding job with it. Unlike John Jameson, whom i couldn't care less about, and did not give a crap wether MJ ended up with him, I actually ended up liking Richard...and in the end..when I was made to go "Wait a minute, who do I want Lois to end up with?" I was torn..and it was brilliant.

I liked him as well, and I think it would be brilliant to show him dying saving Jason and Lois from the supervillain, but I seriouslly doubt it will happen. You have to admit, with most people connecting to him so well, it would pull hard at the heart strings if he died a heroic death.

[Rob-el]

I liked him as well, and I think it would be brilliant to show him dying saving Jason and Lois from the supervillain, but I seriouslly doubt it will happen. You have to admit, with most people connecting to him so well, it would pull hard at the heart strings if he died a heroic death.

In the end it will all be so simple when its revealed that the earth that Superman returned to was either an alterante universe or the result of Mr. Mxyzptlk's magic and he is the kid. Then we can get things back in order for Superman movies! Superman movies should be fun, enteratining , with a message but they should not be emotionally draining or "challenging" to the veiwer to be torn.

[Showtime]

That is not going to happen.

[Grinder]

I think it was intentional on Singers part, and I think he didn an outstanding job with it. Unlike John Jameson, whom i couldn't care less about, and did not give a crap wether MJ ended up with him, I actually ended up liking Richard...and in the end..when I was made to go "Wait a minute, who do I want Lois to end up with?" I was torn..and it was brilliant.
Yeah, it's really "brilliant" to insert a character nobody asked for and make him better in every way than the guy who's supposed to be the main man and get the girl in the end ... ---> GENIUS!

:whatever:

[arksalame]

Im kinda hoping Spacey and Bosworth are M.I.A. for the next movie.
(heavy sigh)

[Rob-el]

That is not going to happen.

Which part the alterant earth/Mxyzptlk part or the Superman movies should be fun, enteraining with a message but not a challenge to watch part?! And yes that was a rhetorical question!

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Im kinda hoping Spacey and Bosworth are M.I.A. for the next movie.
(heavy sigh)I think that there is a 10% chance of that happening.

[Arkady Rossovich]

This shows that WB is afraid to make a Superman film without Luthor.I think that`s real sad,this confirms my feelings of not seeing a Superman Returns sequel.

[GreenKToo]

Which part the alterant earth/Mxyzptlk part or the Superman movies should be fun, enteraining with a message but not a challenge to watch part?! And yes that was a rhetorical question!

The only way I could see them making the events in S.R. be non existent, yet still be believable, would be for Superman to have been stopped unaware on his way back to earth from krypton by *insert supervillain here*, he gets hooked up to alien computers (ala matrix) and the events in S.R. play out in his mind, not reality.
When he finally escapes and returns to earth, there is no richard, and no jason.

Its crazy I know, but its the only way I could see it.

[Rob-el]

The only way I could see them making the events in S.R. be non existent, yet still be believable, would be for Superman to have been stopped unaware on his way back to earth from krypton by *insert supervillain here*, he gets hooked up to alien computers (ala matrix) and the events in S.R. play out in his mind, not reality.
Its crazy I know, but its the only way I could see it.

...or Lois wakes up and goes into the shower to find Bobbie! I agree with you. They simply dug themselves into one hell of ahole and if they can get out of it I'm thinking Oscars for best original screen plays (and I'm not a SR knocker per se - i saw it 6-7 time sin the theater, likes it more as I saw ) Having bracketed that and to paraphrase the Joker form Batman ...This movie continuinty needs an enema!"

[GreenKToo]

Personally, I had no problem with richard or jason, but I can uderstand why some people did.

[Showtime]

Personally, I had no problem with richard or jason, but I can uderstand why some people did.

That is a Showtime answer. :woot:

[GreenKToo]

lol. The only problems I had with S.R., was Lex. It never crossed my mind once to dislike Richard or Jason. I was really hoping for a different Lex though.

[Showtime]

I had a problem with what the character was given to work with but not with how Space potrayed the character.

[GreenKToo]

I had a problem with what the character was given to work with but not with how Space potrayed the character.
yeah, thats what I didnt care for.

[ZeroCorpse]

I didn't have a problem with Richard, Lois, or any of the other characters-- I simply DID NOT CARE about them one way or the other. This movie was annoying and dull.

Spacey was hammy as Lex. I expected cold and calculating, like in the comics or animated series, and what I got was a rehash of Gene Hackman's campy Luthor.

They botched this from the get-go. I won't be seeing the sequel if this is the way they're going to continue.

[Lestat74]

Yeah, it's really "brilliant" to insert a character nobody asked for and make him better in every way than the guy who's supposed to be the main man and get the girl in the end ... ---> GENIUS!

:whatever:

Well, back in '82, the fans literally sent death threats to Paramount when rumors surfaced that they were going to kill off Spock in Star Trek II. Certainly nobody "asked" to have Spock killed off. But 25 years laters, Trek II is still the fan's favorite of the whole series by far, and critically regarded as the best of the bunch as well. Sometimes, the last thing you want is for the hardcore fanbase to have the final word....or any word.

[Showtime]

Spacey was hammy as Lex. I expected cold and calculating, like in the comics or animated series, and what I got was a rehash of Gene Hackman's campy Luthor.


Compared to Hackman's Lex, Spacey was a maniac.

[ZeroCorpse]

Compared to Hackman's Lex, Spacey was a maniac.

Lex Luthor isn't supposed to be a maniac. He's supposed to be a genius, a businessman, a master of manipulating things to get what he wants, and a scientist.

The movie Lex is always basically a psychopath with a fetish for real estate.

[Showtime]

Lex is supposed to be whatever the actor, writer, and filmmaker want him to be.

[FlawlessVictory]

Lex is supposed to be whatever the actor, writer, and filmmaker want him to be.

So if Lex is written as a killer klown from outer space you would be ok with that? :oldrazz:

[Sebastos]

Lex is supposed to be whatever the actor, writer, and filmmaker want him to be.

Exactly. Both Hackman and Spacey portrayed Lex in their own way.

[Matt]

Personally, I had no problem with richard or jason, but I can uderstand why some people did.

I actually found them to be the best aspect of the movie. Jason provided the few light moments the movie had and Richard was everything Superman should be. I liked them a lot...but I'm not sure that is a compliment towards the movie considering it just highlights how unlikable Supes and Lois were.

[Showtime]

So if Lex is written as a killer klown from outer space you would be ok with that? :oldrazz:

Wasn't that in the Abrams version? :csad:

I didn't really like what Lex was given to do in regards to his plan, but I thought he was written much more brutally than Lex was in previous film incarnations. Yeah I get it, in the comics he is a politcial figure or he is a business tycoon, but I liked the way Space potrayed the character.

[mego joe]

i feel you....im not saying what he did was right....but im just looking at it as telling my girlfriend that ive been activated into active duty....yea i should tell her...but can i handle it, if she tries to stop me...or if she tells me its over?....most people would tell....but it aint easy either.

It may not be easy, but if you are honest upright and really care about her you're going to tell her.

SUperman failed the basic test of the defining essence of the content of his character.

[mego joe]

And he also spends a good portion of the movie saving people as well, so what is your point?



IMO he didnt want to say goodbye because he didnt want to see the pain on Lois' face when he told her, some people call that selfish, i dont, i think its a genuine feeling as if i had it my way, NON of my loved ones would EVER feel pain again.

But he causes her more pain by not saying goodbye. It's really simple. Not saying goodbye is about him avoiding pain, not avoiding her from experiencing pain. SHe's going to experience pain either way, but which situation is worth. If he tells her at least she knows he cares enough to say something. By not saying anything it's like saying he doesn't care about her.

[Excel]

I actually found them to be the best aspect of the movie. Jason provided the few light moments the movie had and Richard was everything Superman should be. I liked them a lot...but I'm not sure that is a compliment towards the movie considering it just highlights how unlikable Supes and Lois were.

a lot of the films jokes were cut out. thats one thing it think singer did well actually. if you lose

1. stalker/ depressed superman
2. dark ,.gloomy look of the 2nd half

the whole mood of the film is a lot brighter. factor in a large amount of jokes, i.e. "so you flew in last week" or "what do you have in there, bricks" were edited out; and i think he could make a very popcorn film if he felt like it.

[FlawlessVictory]

It may not be easy, but if you are honest upright and really care about her you're going to tell her.

SUperman failed the basic test of the defining essence of the content of his character.

It's quite mind boggling. What's at the core of this move, Superman not saying goodbye in the context of this movie, is something that Superman would never do. It annoys me the way that Singer and his writers compromised Superman's character just to create some Lifetime movie of the week drama.

Please, just give the ax to Singer and his two writers, they just aren't cut out for Superman.

[Lighthouse]

IMO he didnt want to say goodbye because he didnt want to see the pain on Lois' face when he told her, some people call that selfish, i dont, i think its a genuine feeling as if i had it my way, NON of my loved ones would EVER feel pain again.

How does she not feel even more pain of him not saying goodbye? It is incredibly selfish not to tell her. If I was leaving the country for 5 years, and didn't tell my girlfriend that I was heavily involved with, that would be insanely selfish of me.

[mego joe]

How does she not feel even more pain of him not saying goodbye? It is incredibly selfish not to tell her. If I was leaving the country for 5 years, and didn't tell my girlfriend that I was heavily involved with, that would be insanely selfish of me.


Exactly right.

It's mind boggling how many people can't understand this.

[mego joe]

i feel you....im not saying what he did was right....but im just looking at it as telling my girlfriend that ive been activated into active duty....yea i should tell her...but can i handle it, if she tries to stop me...or if she tells me its over?....most people would tell....but it aint easy either.

NOt really about the discussion, but a personal note to you.
Thank you for serving your country and protecting the values we belive in.

[manofsteel4life]

NOt really about the discussion, but a personal note to you.
Thank you for serving your country and protecting the values we belive in.
hey thanks Mega...i appreciate that....you get so much respect for even telling me that...thank you again Mega:yay:

[mego joe]

hey thanks Mega...i appreciate that....you get so much respect for even telling me that...thank you again Mega:yay:

Hey, no problem, my father in law was a 30 year Marine, my dad served at the end of WWII.

One of my 9 year old's friend's dad just got back from a year in IRaq w/ the reserves.

I have the utmost respect and admiration for all our service men and women across the globe. You all deserve it. Thanks again.

"Freedom isn't free."

"Can I tell you something
GOt to tell you one thing
I you want the freedom that you say is yours
Prove that you deserve it
Help us to preserve it
OR being free will just be words
And nothing more."

[Mr. Socko]

I loved when Lex said........



KKKKKKKKYYYYYYYRRRRRRRPPPPPPPTTTTTOOOOOOONNNNNIIII IIITTTTTEEEEE

[turtlefocker]

Krrrrrrrrrrrryyyyyyyyyyyyyypptonite

[Excel]

I gotta say...superman not say god bye :down: that erked me.

we had way too many reasons to NOT like supes in Returns.

[superbaby]

I didn't have a problem with Richard, Lois, or any of the other characters-- I simply DID NOT CARE about them one way or the other. This movie was annoying and dull.

Spacey was hammy as Lex. I expected cold and calculating, like in the comics or animated series, and what I got was a rehash of Gene Hackman's campy Luthor.

They botched this from the get-go. I won't be seeing the sequel if this is the way they're going to continue.
ya, they should at least refresh the lex character...

[ariellem]

The only way I could see them making the events in S.R. be non existent, yet still be believable, would be for Superman to have been stopped unaware on his way back to earth from krypton by *insert supervillain here*, he gets hooked up to alien computers (ala matrix) and the events in S.R. play out in his mind, not reality.
When he finally escapes and returns to earth, there is no richard, and no jason.

Its crazy I know, but its the only way I could see it.

It's certainly feasible.

Slightly more of a twist:
Superman figures out it's all in his head and then wakes himself up or someone disconnects him by accident. He discovers that "Richard" is a real person - a villain who was trying to brainwash him into trusting him. Maybe Brainiac... Think SV, the one with the Phantom trying to trick Clark into believing in the mental reality so he can take over Clark's body. In SR, the real "Richard" isn't trying to take over Clark's body but he is trying to either subdue or control him.

Once Superman wakes up/gets disconnected, all of the color comes back to the film...

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

But he causes her more pain by not saying goodbye. It's really simple. Not saying goodbye is about him avoiding pain, not avoiding her from experiencing pain. SHe's going to experience pain either way, but which situation is worth. If he tells her at least she knows he cares enough to say something. By not saying anything it's like saying he doesn't care about her.

So he makes a mistake, Jesus, he's not perfect, he just feels the pain of not telling would be easier than the pain of just leaving. He was wrong, he learns from this, as later in the movie, when he thinks he's not coming back from getting rid of NK, he DOES say goodbye.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

How does she not feel even more pain of him not saying goodbye? It is incredibly selfish not to tell her. If I was leaving the country for 5 years, and didn't tell my girlfriend that I was heavily involved with, that would be insanely selfish of me.

See my response above to Mega Joe.

[Delete]

So he makes a mistake, Jesus, he's not perfect, he just feels the pain of not telling would be easier than the pain of just leaving. He was wrong, he learns from this, as later in the movie, when he thinks he's not coming back from getting rid of NK, he DOES say goodbye.

That's one hell of a mistake. I'd just go with the excuse that it was a really crappy plot device thought up by hack writers. Makes more sense than selfishly stomping on the heart of the woman you love by mistake.

[FlawlessVictory]

So he makes a mistake, Jesus, he's not perfect, he just feels the pain of not telling would be easier than the pain of just leaving. He was wrong, he learns from this, as later in the movie, when he thinks he's not coming back from getting rid of NK, he DOES say goodbye.

But its not just a small mistake, its a colossal mistake, one only an emotionally immature person could make. So, I guess he is not emotionally mature/strong enough to say goodbye yet he sure has no trouble sleeping with her. :rolleyes: How dense does one have be to be to not realize the great amount of pain you would cause a loved one by suddenly disappearing for over 4 years without even saying a word. He had to have known it would have caused an extreme amount of pain for Lois. But yet, he does not say anything to her because it was too difficult for him?! I'm sorry but this is so lame and so out of character for Superman. The writers wanted to create drama for Superman, one in which he could not physically fight back, but in doing so they totally compromised his character. :down

[Lighthouse]

But its not just a small mistake, its a colossal mistake, one only an emotionally immature person could make. So, I guess he is not emotionally mature/strong enough to say goodbye yet he sure has no trouble sleeping with her. :rolleyes: How dense does one have be to be to not realize the great amount of pain you would cause a loved one by suddenly disappearing for over 4 years without even saying a word. He had to have known it would have caused an extreme amount of pain for Lois. But yet, he does not say anything to her because it was too difficult for him?! I'm sorry but this is so lame and so out of character for Superman. The writers wanted to create drama for Superman, one in which he could not physically fight back, but in doing so they totally compromised his character. :down

I really liked El Payaso's alternate idea for Clark's leaving, which I think would have been much more convincing.

There was absolutely no need for Superman not saying good-bye to Lois in order to make the action go. Superman should have told Lois he HAD to go to Krypton because his soul needed to know if there were survivors or any information about his roots there. Lois, of course can't agree with Superman reasons because she doesn't know if he will be back and she also knows that if he can come back, it will be in 5 years or more. Last night before the trip, they sleep together from where we have Jason's conception. Ta dah. Nice, simple and Superman doesn't go without saying a word. It's still going away after having sex with Lois, but I think many men, Superman included, would be able to explain those reasons before going away.

[Excel]

the whole superman leaves/no good byes ect. was singer ripping off the notebook. I mean, he even got James Marsden to play the same role AGAIN as he did in The Notebook! Cept Singey added a kid.

[GhostPoet]

I have this really crazy idea...I think Superman should actually PUNCH someone.
Instead of lifting objects, he should have a supervillain he can punch and get punched by.

It's crazy I know....but it JUST might work.

[Excel]

Well he cant punch a human....might accidentlly decapitate someone...and he doesnt kill peope so.....could be a problem.

[terry78]

Superman really is a dick, isn't he? :o

[merced]

ya, they should at least refresh the lex character...

I agree on that. Lex has one film interpreation from Superman The Movie to SR. I would like a totally different take.

[TaintedBlood]

awesome news... and to comment on the whole superman punching somebody, i kind of like that singer chose to not make superman a violent character... it's too easy to wow audiences by having him throwing somebody around. the fact is, superman would never punch a human, let alone lex.

[VenomsMom]

Compared to Hackman's Lex, Spacey was a maniac.
They both didnt give a damn about murdering millions.....over the same thing....land.

[VenomsMom]

Lex Luthor isn't supposed to be a maniac. He's supposed to be a genius, a businessman, a master of manipulating things to get what he wants, and a scientist.

The movie Lex is always basically a psychopath with a fetish for real estate.
He is the same character from 78, was he suppose to change?

[Pickle-El]

They both didnt give a damn about murdering millions.....over the same thing....land.

He was using Kryptonian technology to kill people.....it's a little more sci-fi than the 'he wanted land'. He perversed the technology of a civilization 'far more advanced'. The whole thing was about revenge. To Superman, and to all general human life for causing him misery for 5 years.

[Mr. Socko]

Superman really is a dick, isn't he? :o


I feel sorry for Richard. I wonder how they'll deal with him being told the truth...

[Delete]

He was using Kryptonian technology to kill people.....it's a little more sci-fi than the 'he wanted land'. He perversed the technology of a civilization 'far more advanced'. The whole thing was about revenge. To Superman, and to all general human life for causing him misery for 5 years.

So using alien technology is more evil than Nuclear weapons?

[Mr. Socko]

He was using Kryptonian technology to kill people.....it's a little more sci-fi than the 'he wanted land'. He perversed the technology of a civilization 'far more advanced'. The whole thing was about revenge. To Superman, and to all general human life for causing him misery for 5 years.


Guess again. He didn't use the kryptonian technology to intentionally kill people. What Lex cared about was the land created by the technology, and people just had to die for the land to be created. Luthor's intent in SR was to create land, but to create land, millions...no billions, had to die. Lex's motivation was to create land and real estate. And besides, if he just wanted to kill everyone, who's gonna buy his real estate?

You're not getting the big picture pickle!

[Pickle-El]

So using alien technology is more evil than Nuclear weapons?


It's just as irresponsible.....Murder is still muder, no?

[superbaby]

So using alien technology is more evil than Nuclear weapons?
s'he called it sci-fi. you know... sci-fi? how cool. :whatever:

[Pickle-El]

Guess again. He didn't use the kryptonian technology to intentionally kill people. What Lex cared about was the land created by the technology, and people just had to die for the land to be created. Luthor's intent in SR was to create land, but to create land, millions...no billions, had to die. Lex's motivation was to create land and real estate. And besides, if he just wanted to kill everyone, who's gonna buy his real estate?

You're not getting the big picture pickle!

I thought he had millions in the bank...wasn't that established in the beginning of the flick. He may have not had billions of dollars, but he was pretty well off wouldn't you say?

Come on, you saw how pissed Lex was when he finally got Supes where he wanted him...creating a replica of Krypton was a calculated low blow to the man of steel.

Why else would he make an island out of kryptonite? This was about killing Supes.....or killing millions of innocents. Either way, Supes was screwed. Lex was a meglomaniac. It's feast or famine with him. I think it's you who is missing the big picture.

"And that place I think I'll rent out...."

Yeah, he sounded really serious when he said that.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

That's one hell of a mistake. I'd just go with the excuse that it was a really crappy plot device thought up by hack writers. Makes more sense than selfishly stomping on the heart of the woman you love by mistake.

But its not just a small mistake, its a colossal mistake, one only an emotionally immature person could make. So, I guess he is not emotionally mature/strong enough to say goodbye yet he sure has no trouble sleeping with her. :rolleyes: How dense does one have be to be to not realize the great amount of pain you would cause a loved one by suddenly disappearing for over 4 years without even saying a word. He had to have known it would have caused an extreme amount of pain for Lois. But yet, he does not say anything to her because it was too difficult for him?! I'm sorry but this is so lame and so out of character for Superman. The writers wanted to create drama for Superman, one in which he could not physically fight back, but in doing so they totally compromised his character. :down

I didnt say it was a small mistake, it was a biggy no doubt, but IMO he pays for, and learns from it.

I thought he had millions in the bank...wasn't that established in the beginning of the flick. He may have not had billions of dollars, but he was pretty well off wouldn't you say?

Come on, you saw how pissed Lex was when he finally got Supes where he wanted him...creating a replica of Krypton was a calculated low blow to the man of steel.

Why else would he make an island out of kryptonite? This was about killing Supes.....or killing millions of innocents. Either way, Supes was screwed. Lex was a meglomaniac. It's feast or famine with him. I think it's you who is missing the big picture.

"And that place I think I'll rent out...."

Yeah, he sounded really serious when he said that.

I think there was definately an element of revenge in LL's plan, what could be more offensive to Supes than destroying and bastardising 2 things he loves?

[Showtime]

Guess again. He didn't use the kryptonian technology to intentionally kill people. What Lex cared about was the land created by the technology, and people just had to die for the land to be created. Luthor's intent in SR was to create land, but to create land, millions...no billions, had to die. Lex's motivation was to create land and real estate. And besides, if he just wanted to kill everyone, who's gonna buy his real estate?

You're not getting the big picture pickle!

Actually you're both wrong, if you want get technical Lex's motivations are money and revenge.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

^Well yeah, hence why i said there was an ELEMENT of revenge in Lex's plan.

[Showtime]

^Well yeah, hence why i said there was an ELEMENT of revenge in Lex's plan.

I wasn't including you in the both.

[Mr. Socko]

Actually you're both wrong, if you want get technical Lex's motivations are money and revenge.


money comes from selling land *wink*wink*


therefore I am 50% right:cmad:

[Showtime]

money comes from selling land *wink*wink*


therefore I am 50% right:cmad:

Nope. Money and revenge are his motivations. Individually they equal 50% of his motivation. There is no room. :cwink:

[VenomsMom]

He was using Kryptonian technology to kill people.....it's a little more sci-fi than the 'he wanted land'. He perversed the technology of a civilization 'far more advanced'. The whole thing was about revenge. To Superman, and to all general human life for causing him misery for 5 years.
It was the same basic principle. He didnt value any human life whatsoever. The difference here is that it was more widespead and more destructive. After 5 years I would not have expected anything less from this Lex. Of course the icing on the cake was he was using Supes technology. It was still conman Lex wanting real estate, money, respect and power.

[VenomsMom]

It's just as irresponsible.....Murder is still muder, no?
Exactly it was still the same.

[VenomsMom]

I thought he had millions in the bank...wasn't that established in the beginning of the flick. He may have not had billions of dollars, but he was pretty well off wouldn't you say?

Come on, you saw how pissed Lex was when he finally got Supes where he wanted him...creating a replica of Krypton was a calculated low blow to the man of steel.

Why else would he make an island out of kryptonite? This was about killing Supes.....or killing millions of innocents. Either way, Supes was screwed. Lex was a meglomaniac. It's feast or famine with him. I think it's you who is missing the big picture.

"And that place I think I'll rent out...."

Yeah, he sounded really serious when he said that.
Killing Supes was just a bonus. Why would he come up with such a massive plan just to kill Supes? This plan was in motion before he knew supes was even back.

[Mr. Socko]

Nope. Money and revenge are his motivations. Individually they equal 50% of his motivation. There is no room. :cwink:


Correct me again and I'll throw you off a bridge:cmad::cmad::cmad:

[Showtime]

Correct me again and I'll throw you off a bridge:cmad::cmad::cmad:

I'm really interested on how that would work out for you Green Goblin. :gg:

[Optimus Prime.]

the sequel better be good.

[Mr. Socko]

Kinda wrong thread but does anyone have the gif of Lex yelling wrong and the letters come out his mouth?

[dude love]

Search YTMND, they've got plenty of parodies of Lex Luthor's WRONG!.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I wasn't including you in the both.

Oh right sorry.

Killing Supes was just a bonus. Why would he come up with such a massive plan just to kill Supes? This plan was in motion before he knew supes was even back.

It wasnt just to kill Supes, it was to humiliate him, anger him, and put him on his knees, and THEN killing him. I'll agree that the plan was in motion BEFORE he knew Supes was back, but once he did know, his plan clearly took on different elements, like revenge. Hence the inclusion of Kryptonite into the creation of the island. This is all basically in Lex's dialogue to Supes on the island. He hates Superman and wants him to suffer greatly before he dies.

[GreenKToo]

I just didnt care for the way Lex was potrayed in S.R. If they would have had him making kryptonarian weapons to sell, instead of making land, I would have enjoyed it alot more.
Still, i'm curious to see how singers promises of more action, all wrath of kahn etc etc, pans out.

[Dark Knight]

I just didnt care for the way Lex was potrayed in S.R. If they would have had him making kryptonarian weapons to sell, instead of making land, I would have enjoyed it alot more.
Still, i'm curious to see how singers promises of more action, all wrath of kahn etc etc, pans out.



Singer is not a bad director. He should know what needs to be done to improve upon for the sequel to be kick a$$. X2 was a better overall film than the first and the ending with Jean dying had something to do with it. Same with Wrath of Khan.....with Spock dying heroically in the end....just made Wrath of Khan that much better because of the shock, drama and emotion.

I firmly believe that in the sequel to Returns.....Singer knows what to do to improve. I also believe that the sequel should not have a "happy" type of ending. Someone needs to be killed off in a tragic and heroic way other than Supes or Richard. The main candidate would be Jason IMO and if it is him....he needs to die heroically.

[GhostPoet]

I'm very sceptical about Singer...he seems bent on -reviving Donner's vision and completely ignoring the comics...

[JAX]

I'm very sceptical about Singer...he seems bent on -reviving Donner's vision and completely ignoring the comics...

agreed.

[GhostPoet]

If the Zod rumor turns out to be true...then it'll be obvious Singer is looking to only do "remakes" of the original Superman films and not created his own series.

[Dark Knight]

If the Zod rumor turns out to be true...then it'll be obvious Singer is looking to only do "remakes" of the original Superman films and not created his own series.



I agree...and that would be unfortunate. However, I don't think Horn and the WB's execs will greenlight his sequel script if it seems like a remake.

[terry78]

I would think that the fact that none of Superman's actual classic villains have been used aside from Luthor would be a director's dream...finally get to realize them in your own vision.

[Spiderine]

It would be quite a challenge.

[manofsteel4life]

trust me no Zod will be in this.....he's already hinted he wanted to bring a villain in the sequel that hasnt been seen before....and it aint Zod

[superbaby]

trust me no Zod will be in this.....he's already hinted he wanted to bring a villain in the sequel that hasnt been seen before....and it aint Zod
prove it. :woot:

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Singer is not a bad director. He should know what needs to be done to improve upon for the sequel to be kick a$$. X2 was a better overall film than the first and the ending with Jean dying had something to do with it. Same with Wrath of Khan.....with Spock dying heroically in the end....just made Wrath of Khan that much better because of the shock, drama and emotion.

I firmly believe that in the sequel to Returns.....Singer knows what to do to improve. I also believe that the sequel should not have a "happy" type of ending. Someone needs to be killed off in a tragic and heroic way other than Supes or Richard. The main candidate would be Jason IMO and if it is him....he needs to die heroically.

I agreed with everything up until this point, Jason is not gonna be killed off, no matter how much people wish it.

[Qwerty©]

I'm very sceptical about Singer...he seems bent on -reviving Donner's vision and completely ignoring the comics...No, he doesn't. That's something whiney fanboys have made up and repeated so often that they themselves believe it to be true. There is no real indication that is Bryan Singer's ultimate goal. SR itself was about moving away from the Donner movies.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

No, he doesn't. That's something whiney fanboys have made up and repeated so often that they themselves believe it to be true. There is no real indication that is Bryan Singer's ultimate goal. SR itself was about moving away from the Donner movies.The question is why did he use 200mil to move away from the Donnerverse? Seems like a huge waste of time and money to me..and to alot of other people judging by it's boxoffice and WB's seeming warriness about making a sequel. (I do think their is a 90% chance they are going to make a Singer sequel BTW)

Why couldn't have he just made his own version of Supes as the first film? Why is it his job to give Donners series a sendoff?
Answer, because I don't think that the sendoff idea is true, I just think that he was so obsessively in love with Donners movie that he just didn't think that he'd been able to make something as "good" if he didn't just copy his universe 85%. It's funny, I hated the fact that the X- movies seemed nothing like the X-Men from the comics and cartoons because he thought changing everything to his (pathetic IMHO) ideas was the only way to go with the "silly" primise and I hate the fact that he couldn't get over Donner's Superman enough to make a Superman movie of his own. The man just doesn't know what a middle ground is, in my opinion.

[Showtime]

The question is why did he use 200mil to move away from the Donnerverse? Seems like a huge waste of time and money to me..and to alot of other people judging by it's boxoffice and WB's seeming warriness about making a sequel. (I do think their is a 90% chance they are going to make a Singer sequel BTW)

Why couldn't have he just made his own version of Supes as the first film? Why is it his job to give Donners series a sendoff?
Answer, because I don't think that the sendoff idea is true, I just think that he was so obsessively in love with Donners movie that he just didn't think that he'd been able to make something as "good" if he didn't just copy his universe 85%. It's funny, I hated the fact that the X- movies seemed nothing like the X-Men from the comics and cartoons because he thought changing everything to his (pathetic IMHO) ideas was the only way to go with the "silly" primise and I hate the fact that he couldn't get over Donner's Superman enough to make a Superman movie of his own. The man just doesn't know what a middle ground is, in my opinion.

That is the big question. Was this an intentional funeral for the Donner Universe and a tribute to Christopher Reeve as Superman, or was that an afterthought created by fans and Singer used Donner as a lifeboat to guide him through the 1st movie assuming there would be two or three more movies easily?

[I SEE SPIDEY]

That is the big question. Was this an intentional funeral for the Donner Universe and a tribute to Christopher Reeve as Superman, or was that an afterthought created by fans and Singer used Donner as a lifeboat to guide him through the 1st movie assuming there would be two or three more movies easily?If Singer spent a year of his life on a 200milion dollar sendoff to another directors work I will lose the tiny bit of respect I have for him and the WB, because that is just...stupid as hell. Really really stupid. Donner didn't need a sendoff, he already had his chance it was time to move on.

[Showtime]

If Singer spent a year of his life on a 200milion dollar sendoff to another directors work I will lose the tiny bit of respect I have for him and the WB, because that is just...stupid as hell. Really really stupid. Donner didn't need a sendoff, he already had his chance it was time to move on.

I personally think he was using Donner as source material, nothing more and nothing less. Instead of using storylines from the comics he used the Donner Universe as the continuing arc for Returns and only included elements from the comics. I think it became a sendoff to Donner and Christopher Reeve at the same time. I think the problem was that WB and Singer thought this is what the all the movie goers wanted.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

The question is why did he use 200mil to move away from the Donnerverse? Seems like a huge waste of time and money to me..and to alot of other people judging by it's boxoffice and WB's seeming warriness about making a sequel. (I do think their is a 90% chance they are going to make a Singer sequel BTW)

Why couldn't have he just made his own version of Supes as the first film? Why is it his job to give Donners series a sendoff?
Answer, because I don't think that the sendoff idea is true, I just think that he was so obsessively in love with Donners movie that he just didn't think that he'd been able to make something as "good" if he didn't just copy his universe 85%. It's funny, I hated the fact that the X- movies seemed nothing like the X-Men from the comics and cartoons because he thought changing everything to his (pathetic IMHO) ideas was the only way to go with the "silly" primise and I hate the fact that he couldn't get over Donner's Superman enough to make a Superman movie of his own. The man just doesn't know what a middle ground is, in my opinion.

He didnt do his own movie because if he didnt, just as many people would still be complaing about how he never acknowledged Donner/Reeve.

I personally think he was using Donner as source material, nothing more and nothing less. Instead of using storylines from the comics he used the Donner Universe as the continuing arc for Returns and only included elements from the comics. I think it became a sendoff to Donner and Christopher Reeve at the same time. I think the problem was that WB and Singer thought this is what the all the movie goers wanted.

I agree to an extent, but, and i hate saying this, once Reeve died, i feel Singer felt he had to pay tribute to him and Donner, moreso than he might have planned to IMO. And, also IMO, there is nothing wrong with that.

[X-Maniac]

I hope we don't get too much Spacey in the sequel. Spacey is too expensive and was too over-the-top. Hackman was the original, somewhat camp Lex; Michael Rosenbaum has been able to provide a solid Lex over six seasons (almost 200 episodes) of a TV show. I'm really not looking forward to more of Lex. Even on Smallville, it got tiring after a while, hence Brainiac and other characters being a welcome break.

[Dark Knight]

I agreed with everything up until this point, Jason is not gonna be killed off, no matter how much people wish it.



The thing is...what would be the point of keeping him alive. I mean what was the point to having Superman have a child? Will he become Superboy or something?

[TheComicbookKid]

They could do anything they want with him. In the FF comics, Franklin's been 8 years old for years. They could change the child actor out after the second movie to maintain the age they want if they want a third and fourth movie.

[GhostPoet]

Way I figure it...Singer probably thought by pigging backing off of Donner's material, that it would be a sure-fire success...rather than taking the less unsafe route of making something up himself.

Honestly...if he had used the comic source material ONLY...we would have had an incredible film....one that had...you know...something I like to call "action" instead of a Superman trying to get in touch with his femine-side.

Ok, that was harsh...but dang, I felt so let down...waiting all this time to see Superman back in action...and then just to see him lift stuff up a few times. tada. that's it.

[manofsteel4life]

They could do anything they want with him. In the FF comics, Franklin's been 8 years old for years. They could change the child actor out after the second movie to maintain the age they want if they want a third and fourth movie.
people just dont seem to realize the possiblities that available here

[Grinder]

Yay, little Superbrat saving daddy's a$$ from a beatdown?

---> WICKED COOL!!!!



*urgh*

[TaintedBlood]

i still give props to singer for adding the kid... it separates the franchise from all other superhero movies... it took a lot of balls and has a ton of potential... if singer does step down from the director's chair, most of hollywood's writers & directors will be foaming at the mouth at the opportunity... contrary to what most of you seem to think, they won't want to reboot the series and tell an origin story. That has been done... and done... and done.... nothing new can be added to a superhero origin story... that's why McG and Abrams were so desperately changing Superman's origin.



AND it won't be Superboy

[Showtime]

I agree to an extent, but, and i hate saying this, once Reeve died, i feel Singer felt he had to pay tribute to him and Donner, moreso than he might have planned to IMO. And, also IMO, there is nothing wrong with that.

I think that might have been the case, not just Singer but WB as well. Problem is that it didn't resonate with the general audience as much as they thought it would.

[Dark Knight]

Yay, little Superbrat saving daddy's a$$ from a beatdown?

---> WICKED COOL!!!!



*urgh*



Nah....I think something can be written with much more um....creativity. :whatever:

[superbaby]

i still give props to singer for adding the kid... it separates the franchise from all other superhero movies... it took a lot of balls and has a ton of potential... if singer does step down from the director's chair, most of hollywood's writers & directors will be foaming at the mouth at the opportunity... contrary to what most of you seem to think, they won't want to reboot the series and tell an origin story. That has been done... and done... and done.... nothing new can be added to a superhero origin story... that's why McG and Abrams were so desperately changing Superman's origin.



AND it won't be Superboy
most importantly, he brought the superman movie franchise back to square one.

[terry78]

i still give props to singer for adding the kid... it separates the franchise from all other superhero movies... it took a lot of balls and has a ton of potential... if singer does step down from the director's chair, most of hollywood's writers & directors will be foaming at the mouth at the opportunity... contrary to what most of you seem to think, they won't want to reboot the series and tell an origin story. That has been done... and done... and done.... nothing new can be added to a superhero origin story... that's why McG and Abrams were so desperately changing Superman's origin.



AND it won't be Superboy
Usually adding a kid to a franchise is the most cliche thing you can do. I personally am not a fan of what Singer did, but whatever. Gotta deal now.

[mego joe]

He didnt do his own movie because if he didnt, just as many people would still be complaing about how he never acknowledged Donner/Reeve.


THere's a big difference between acknowledging something and writing yourself into the history of it. And I think far fewer people would have complained as you suggest.


I agree to an extent, but, and i hate saying this, once Reeve died, i feel Singer felt he had to pay tribute to him and Donner, moreso than he might have planned to IMO. And, also IMO, there is nothing wrong with that.

Although there are those stories about SInger telling people about his ideas for "Superman III" years ago, so it seems he's always had this idea in his head in order for it to continue from the Donner films.

[mego joe]

They could do anything they want with him. In the FF comics, Franklin's been 8 years old for years. They could change the child actor out after the second movie to maintain the age they want if they want a third and fourth movie.

But what's the point? How does he add to the story if he doesn't change and grow if he's just in the background as a kid like a piece of furniture?

[macchawkins]

Lex Luthor by Spacey again? why???

[mego joe]

people just dont seem to realize the possiblities that available here

I think the problem is that people are realizing the possibilities and none of them really feel like the material for a good Superman story.

[superbaby]

I think the problem is that people are realizing the possibilities and none of them really feel like the material for a good Superman story.
no. some thought that the melodrama of sr could be a very interesting storyline to be further developed in the sequel.