Why 'Jack' should be the Joker's name

[Kevin Roegele]

1. A Jack is the weakest of the picture cards in a deck. A Joker is a wild card.

2. Jack was used in Tim Burton's Batman.

3. It's been used in the animated series.

4. It's been heavily implied in the comics.

[Shoemeister]

Ummmmmm.......



..... sure.

[Seen]

Your first reasoning was the best. The others ... meh. Any connotations to the previous movies should be avoided IMO.

[Mr. Socko]

Yes, his name is usually Jack so if they're going to have an origin, definitely. But I'd rather no origin, let's try to stay away from the ways of B'89.

[Batty Belfry]

Your first reasoning was the best. The others ... meh. Any connotations to the previous movies should be avoided IMO.


I agree.

[AndrewGilkison]

Why can't he just be called Joker?

[Sun_Down]

His name is probably THE least significant aspect of his character or this movie. It really does not matter.

[Mr. Socko]

Your first reasoning was the best. The others ... meh. Any connotations to the previous movies should be avoided IMO.


Jack is also what he's been called in origin stories in some comics.

[Kevin Roegele]

His name is probably THE least significant aspect of his character or this movie. It really does not matter.

Character names are important.

[Seen]

Jack is also what he's been called in origin stories in some comics.

The film begins with him already as The Joker. I suspect Nolan is bypassing the origin completely, given the ending of the last pic.

[Shoemeister]

Your first reasoning was the best. The others ... meh. Any connotations to the previous movies should be avoided IMO.

That's how I feel. The card parallel is very cool. The other reasons... naaaaah.

[Seen]

Character names are important.

Depending on the characters. The only name that is important to THIS character is The Joker.

[Kevin Roegele]

Depending on the characters. The only name that is important to THIS character is The Joker.

Have you read the script?

[Seen]

Have you read the script?

Do I need to? Why would he need to be called "Jack" when he's The Joker from the getgo? I think him having no name merely adds to the mysteriousness aspect to the character, especially since he has no origin in the film.

Less is more. The best villains start out with little to no back history as possible. Boba Fett anyone?

[Seraphartman]

I do not even remember anyone diving into the Joker's origin much anyway so it probably would be best to have it as a mystery and Jack was the only other name I ever heard him be called when talking about his past. However I do not know what stories have been told about the Joker.

[BubbaGump]

Hush Returns does not count as heavily implied in the comics.

[General Vulcun]

For one, Nolan has said that TDK picks up directly after Batman Begins, so I imagine there'd be no origin.

[Sun_Down]

Character names are important.

Give me one good reason why.

[Stringer]

Unless they go deep into his backstory he doesnt need to have any name but The Joker.

[Lucius Cipher]

Who f**kin' cares?

[Mr.Clay]

No way, that's a list of the reasons why he shouldn't be called Jack. The Joker is such a better character when he's regarded as something more like a force of nature, and that happens because he's not understandable, and he's mysterious. Stuff that personalizes him, like a name, just isn't doing anything for his character other than weaken him.

[BubbaGump]

Give me one good reason why.

"Batman"

[Sun_Down]

"Batman"

Mmmmk...."Tuna". Are we done saying random irrelevant things now?

[weezerspider]

90% or more of Batman comics have The Joker's name as an unknown. What was that line Joker himself once said? Something like " Sometimes I remember my past one way, sometimes I remember it another way. I have a past, but I like it to be multiple choice". It was something like that. There is NO need for The Joker's real name. Heck, he doesn't even know it.

[Seen]

"Batman"

Of course character names are important. Keyser Soze anyone?

But like I said, it depends on the character. The Joker is someone who doesn't necessitate a first name like a normal person because he isn't a normal person. So it doesn't apply to him, whereas it might apply for others (like Batman).

In any case, a name doesn't define a character. To change up a slogan from Batman Begins -- "It's not my name that defines me ... but who I am underneath."

[BubbaGump]

Mmmmk...."Tuna". Are we done saying random irrelevant things now?

It wasn't irrelevant. That's one good reason why character names are important.

[Mr. Socko]

Mmmmk...."Tuna". Are we done saying random irrelevant things now?



Salad

[Chucktallica101]

1. A Jack is the weakest of the picture cards in a deck. A Joker is a wild card.

2. Jack was used in Tim Burton's Batman.

3. It's been used in the animated series.

4. It's been heavily implied in the comics.

I actually like this logic...but I would rather have Nolan keep this Joker rather mysterious.

[Sun_Down]

It wasn't irrelevant. That's one good reason why character names are important.

Rrrrright, well in case you haven't noticed, we're not talking about codenames or alter egos. We're talking about the Joker's real name and why it's entirely unimportant. Would Batman be any less of hero if his real name was Jonathan Wayne?

[Batty Belfry]

In the context of the story, does it really matter if the Joker's real name is Fred, Jack, or Curly? I doubt it.... Some things work better if they are left as a mystery.

[Mr. Socko]

No but he would be less of a hero if his real name was Fatman

[BubbaGump]

Rrrrright, well in case you haven't noticed, we're not talking about codenames or alter egos. We're talking about the Joker's real name and why it's entirely unimportant. Would Batman be any less of hero if his real name was Jonathan Wayne?

Yeah. Bruce Wayne is catchy. The name itself rings of wealth and power. Jonathan is lame.

[The Kid]

Jack Spade should be his name

[Mr. Socko]

Jack Spade should be his name


Why not just go out with a bang and use Sparrow?

[The Kid]

Why not just go out with a bang and use Sparrow?

Because it would make me even more dissapointed that depp wasn't cast for joker :dry: :ninja:

[Batty Belfry]

Jack Spade should be his name

SpongeBob FunnyPants

[Mr. Socko]

Because it would make me even more dissapointed that depp wasn't cast for joker :dry: :ninja:


What we talkin bout 'again?

[Hole Shot]

Jack Spade should be his name

Or how about Joe Kerr?


ba-da-bump

[The Kid]

What we talkin bout 'again?

Why it's a huge missed opportunity to not have depp be the clown prince of crime. Maybe they wanted him but Burton suggested he not take it out of revenge, that evil man.

Anyway, I'm very dissapointed Joker hasn't been shown wearing a fedora. That's the joker, classy fedora wearing gangster!

[Mr. Socko]

Why it's a huge missed opportunity to not have depp be the clown prince of crime. Maybe they wanted him but Burton suggested he not take it out of revenge, that evil man.

Anyway, I'm very dissapointed Joker hasn't been shown wearing a fedora. That's the joker, classy fedora wearing gangster!


In all seriousness, i'd have liked to see Depp as The Joker, but I'm not sure if you're joking or not.

[The Kid]

Or how about Joe Kerr?


ba-da-bump

lololololo

I got the idea for spade from the character sam spade from maltese falcon. it's a very film noir-ish name ain't it.

and it's from a card deck

[Rezzo]

1. A Jack is the weakest of the picture cards in a deck. A Joker is a wild card.

4. It's been heavily implied in the comics.

Only ones that matter

[Symbiotic]

1. A Jack is the weakest of the picture cards in a deck. A Joker is a wild card.

2. Jack was used in Tim Burton's Batman.

3. It's been used in the animated series.

4. It's been heavily implied in the comics. There's a good reason.:whatever:

[The Guard]

In the comic book world, where The Joker is a recurring character and has a lot of threads that run through the mythology, him having a past and a name and a wife and so forth might be relevant. Here, it's not. Here, it will only feel forced. He doesn't need to be named.

[jimmy]

Everyone KNOWS that The Joker's real name is Joseph Kerr.

TEOL.

[Abaddon]

His name is probably THE least significant aspect of his character or this movie. It really does not matter.

I agree.:up:

[Joker]

The Joker needs no name other than Joker.

[The Kid]

we all have names. he has one too. and it's jack spade

[donk70]

I prefer Marvin....no wait......Rupert.........wait a sec...........Edgar

Yeah, Edgar

[THE MR. TERRIFIC]

Yeah I like either Jack Napier or Joe Kerr.

[CalebYourMaster]

i say call him the joker...but since batman should show his detective skills and stuff...he should read back on him and see his original name and stuff...

[Great1]

Does it matter what his former name was, he once said "sometimes I remember it one way, sometimes another.... If I'm going to have a past I'd prefer it to be multiple choice, showing he probally doesn't even remember his name. For all he knows it could be Billy-Bob. And I'd resume to keep it a mystery because thats what the Joker is a mystery

[Figs]

No name other than Joker. No real point to give him a real name, not to mention the general audience im sure really wouldn't care since they only know of him as The Joker as well.

[SmileX]

His name is probably THE least significant aspect of his character or this movie. It really does not matter.
I disagree. Doesn't Batman actually quite often refer to the villians by their real names?

[Figs]

I disagree. Doesn't Batman actually quite often refer to the villians by their real names?

When it comes to the Joker i've always only noticed him refer to him as Joker.

[Killing Joke926]

When in comes to the Joker, I think everyone is still unsure of his true identity; infact Joker at times can't remember who he was. I actually think it would be cool if they showed a numerous amounts of flash back different orgins of Mr. J. in the movie; just like in Killing Joke he prefers his past life to be multiple choice. That way, if many orgins where showed fans and audiances would come to be confused and his life would still continue to be a mystery. Any thoughts?

[Shot Gun Shy]

if they had to reveal his real name in tdk it should be ......... muffin cakes.

[Figs]

if they had to reveal his real name in tdk it should be ......... muffin cakes.

That sounds more like a name he would call someone who he had tied up or was about to kill when he was in one of his more lighthearted moments.

[skabass13]

Did anyone notice when they showed Joker's 'calling card' in BB, on the bag it was placed in was titled with J. Kerr? I cannot find a screenshot, but this proves that if they decided to give him a name in TDK, it would most likely be Joseph Kerr.

Just my 2 cents.

[Shot Gun Shy]

That sounds more like a name he would call someone who he had tied up or was about to kill when he was in one of his more lighthearted moments.

Yes, I know -- I was kiddin =)

[Drunken Savior]

I personally liked the name Jack Napier. It suited Burton's Joker very well and it suited BTAS very well too.

But if Nolan isn't gonna delve into the Joker's back story, why bother with the name? I suspect the movie is gonna be around 120-140 minutes long (BB was 140m) so they don't need to bother with lines about Joker's name, especially given the story they want to tell in TDK. The story is an ambitious one and Nolan is probably using every second he can to move the story along, not deliver fan service to a vast minority of people.

[Great1]

Did anyone notice when they showed Joker's 'calling card' in BB, on the bag it was placed in was titled with J. Kerr? I cannot find a screenshot, but this proves that if they decided to give him a name in TDK, it would most likely be Joseph Kerr.

Just my 2 cents.

Intersesting, i'm going to have to check that out.

[Figs]

Yes, I know -- I was kiddin =)

I knew you were kidding...just wanted to point that out for no real reason other than Im bored right now. lol

[Capt Throbberson]

Jack Spade should be his name

Why not Ace King?

[BubbaGump]

Did anyone notice when they showed Joker's 'calling card' in BB, on the bag it was placed in was titled with J. Kerr? I cannot find a screenshot, but this proves that if they decided to give him a name in TDK, it would most likely be Joseph Kerr.

Just my 2 cents.

Yeah. I paused it on that part, too. I'm usually the first to come up with screenshots, but my program is on another computer. :cmad:

[fceeviper]

F--- no!

Joker or The Joker will be fine. The Clown Prince of Crime would be fine also. ;)

[The Kid]

Why not Ace King?

too cartoony

Jack Black maybe :ninja:

der der dagoo diggy diggit der

[StorminNorman]

If the Joker need a name from his pre-Jokah, give him Jack.

Or better yet Phil. Phil Collins. Its perfect.

[jimmy]

NORMAN!!

That's perfect.

[SpaceDyeVest28]

Hmmm...

Scrote M. Herr

Joe Kerr...hmm I think that's a bit too...something...

[Killing Joke926]

F--- no!

Joker or The Joker will be fine. The Clown Prince of Crime would be fine also. ;)

Don't forget Ace of Knaves.:woot:

[StorminNorman]

NORMAN!!

That's perfect.

I think I would like to rent your sig space :(

[fceeviper]

Don't forget Ace of Knaves.:woot:
:D :woot:

[Katsuro]

His name is probably THE least significant aspect of his character or this movie. It really does not matter.

To take it a step further, I believe giving him a name would actually be detrimental to the character. I think giving him a real name at all would be a huge mistake. It would take away from the mystery of the character, as well as going against the comics. Sure, they've hinted at a real name here and there, but for 99% of Joker's 70 years of being printed, his name has been a mystery.

It'd be like remaking Clint Eastwood's Fisftul of Dollars trilogy and giving that guy a name. He's not supposed to have one.

[Mladen]

I don't really see the point in supplying him with a backstory. its not important to the plot, and the character works better as a 'wild-card' without any pre-determined past or obvious motivation to his actions.

Plus filling in a believable back story for the Joker would just take up screen time in what already appears to be growing into quite a full film. There's also the issue of two-face's origin, which has to be given room to breathe (no room for two origin stories in one film). Keep it for the third film, maybe, but its simply not important.

[CConn]

To take it a step further, I believe giving him a name would actually be detrimental to the character. I think giving him a real name at all would be a huge mistake. It would take away from the mystery of the character, as well as going against the comics. Sure, they've hinted at a real name here and there, but for 99% of Joker's 70 years of being printed, his name has been a mystery.

It'd be like remaking Clint Eastwood's Fisftul of Dollars trilogy and giving that guy a name. He's not supposed to have one.
It's sad you care so much about something so utterly worthless.

[BubbaGump]

http://img477.imageshack.us/img477/10/yeepikayohqq2.jpg

Yeehaw. Still the first to post screen caps. I highlighted the interesting parts, but for you who still can't see it says:

Suspect: Unknown

Recovered by: J. Kerr

Signature: JK (JK-just kidding, interesting huh?)

[jimmy]

Holy ****bag, that's crazy! I didn't notice that!

[Lots o lafs]

Yeah

[Katsuro]

It's sad you care so much about something so utterly worthless.

Thanks for pointing that out. Do all of your other 48,093 posts consist of the same "I dont care about this nerd crap" attitude?

[Kaizer]

this has probably been mentioned, but calling Joker Jack, is like pointing out that Edward Nygma is almost the same as E-nigma. Works in the comics, but there are just too much coinsidences. Like SM3, that whole plot revolved around coinsidences.

[Drunken Savior]

How is Joker's real name being 'Jack' a coincidence? They both start with 'J' but after that they don't really have much of a connection.

[Two-Face]

I don't want Joker called "Jack", I'm favour of not known his real name.

[Kaizer]

How is Joker's real name being 'Jack' a coincidence? They both start with 'J' but after that they don't really have much of a connection.

Ok...


Jack (Playing Card)

The jack or knave is a playing card with a picture of a young man on it. The usual rank of a jack is as if it were an 11 (that is, below the queen and above the 10) although in some games - such as Blackjack - it is equal to a 10. However, jacks are the highest possible cards in the German game Skat, and are lower than 10s in many other games, like Pinochle. In some countries/cultures, the jack is ranked above the queen.
As the lowest face (or "court") card, the jack often represents a minimum standard - for example many poker games require a minimum hand of a pair of jacks, often called simply "Jacks or better".
As early as the mid-1500s the jack was called the knave. A knave is a male servant of royalty in this instance. The card came to be known as the jack during the middle of the 19th century, when card manufacturers began to label playing cards to indicate their value with 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, J, Q, K, A. The obvious confusion between "Kn" and "K" led to the renaming of the knave, being out-ranked by the king. However, books of card games published in the third quarter of the 19th century evidently still referred to the "knave", and the term with this definition is still recognized in the United Kingdom.
In the standard English playing card deck, the jack and the other face cards represent no one in particular - this is in contrast to French decks, where each court card represents a named person[citation needed]. The jacks in a French deck are as follows:

Jack of Spades: Ogier the Dane (fictional hero of the chansons de geste)
Jack of Hearts: La Hire (French warrior)[citation needed]
Jack of Diamonds: Hector (mythological hero of the Iliad)
Jack of Clubs: Lancelot (fictional hero of the Arthurian legend)
Confusion often arises because the suits in an English deck came from the French deck as well.

Of course, playing cards has a lot to do with the Jokers personality.

And I think we all know what a Jack in the box is:

http://z.about.com/d/babyparenting/1/7/5/8/avonjackinthebox.jpg

Plus: :p

Jack Napier is a Puerto Rican porn actor who was born on 20 October 1976 in Inglewood, California. He has performed in almost 600 movies, having sex with almost 1100 young women, generally between their late teens and early twenties. He is 6' (1.82m) in height. He is considered by many to have one of the largest male genitalia among prolific porn actors, second only to Mandingo. However, he does draw criticism for his inability to get an erection.
His flagship series, "There's Something About Jack" first appeared in 1999, and is still in production. He has also appeared in nearly every episode of 'Chasing The Big Ones' gonzo series. In one of them he joined Wesley Pipes to double penetrate Nikita Denise.He also has been involved in the project 'Giant Black Meat White Treat'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Napier_%28porn_star%29

[TheBatman072]

Joker's name should be Joker.


He ceased being who he was before his chemical accident and became Joker after. And that's the way it should be.

[Kaizer]

Joker's name should be Joker.


He ceased being who he was before his chemical accident and became Joker after. And that's the way it should be.

http://www.p42.org/funny/microsoft%20word.jpg

[El Payaso]

Your first reasoning was the best. The others ... meh. Any connotations to the previous movies should be avoided IMO.

Black rubber suit?

[The Count]

The less is known about the Joker, the scarier he will be

[Matchbox]

Black rubber suit?

I think you're generalizing, there. Yes, Batman Begins used a black rubber suit, but at the same time, it was completley different from the Burton ones. Yes, I realize you're playing devil's advocate, but I think you're comparing apples and oranges with this one.

-Matchbox

[Sun_Down]

I disagree. Doesn't Batman actually quite often refer to the villians by their real names?

And...?

[El Payaso]

I think you're generalizing, there. Yes, Batman Begins used a black rubber suit, but at the same time, it was completley different from the Burton ones.

How so?

I know it had some bits of Schumacher suits too, clasps included. But it was basically the same concept.

Yes, I realize you're playing devil's advocate, but I think you're comparing apples and oranges with this one.

I'm comparing black rubber bat-suits and black rubber bat-suits. Not that different concepts as oranges and apples.

[itsthebatman]

Thanks for pointing that out. Do all of your other 48,093 posts consist of the same "I dont care about this nerd crap" attitude?
It does seem an illogical attitude for someone with so many posts and who reads more comics than anyone else I know.
The whole 'Man with no name' thing is a myth. he's called Blondie, Manko, and (I think) Joe in each of the movie`, although I will concede none of them is likely to be his real name. To me, High Plains Drifter is the high point of the 'No Name' archetype. I think a good modern-day equivalent would be Hannibal Lecter - the more we know about him, the more he is explained, the less interesting he becomes.

[Kaizer]

I disagree. Doesn't Batman actually quite often refer to the villians by their real names?

You want Batman to go around and say "Hey, Jack! I´m the goddamn Batman!"?

There´s only one Jack, and his name´s Jack Bauer. :p

[Hobodeluxe]

Jack Napier is a take off of the Shakespearian insult "jack a nape" I would think.
The description is sort of vague but could be a joker sort of fellow.

as for the evidence bag it is interesting that the guy who recovered it is J.Kerr. Is the Joker a cop or impersonating one before his accident?

[DieSmiling]

His name is probably THE least significant aspect of his character or this movie. It really does not matter.

Yup.

If they do give him an origin and a name though, I agree, it should probably be Jack.

[Matchbox]

see below...

[BubbaGump]

Jack Napier is a take off of the Shakespearian insult "jack a nape" I would think.
The description is sort of vague but could be a joker sort of fellow.

as for the evidence bag it is interesting that the guy who recovered it is J.Kerr. Is the Joker a cop or impersonating one before his accident?

I think Napier was a tribute to Alan Napier from the 60's show.

But either way (name or no-name) I'm content.

[Matchbox]

How so?

I know it had some bits of Schumacher suits too, clasps included. But it was basically the same concept.

I'm comparing black rubber bat-suits and black rubber bat-suits. Not that different concepts as oranges and apples.


Yeah, I agree that it was the same concept, however the suit was radically different; the way it was made, the way it looked, moved, etc.

I think you lost yourself there. You weren't just comparing black rubber suits to black rubber suits. You were comparing the black rubber suits of the Burton movies to the Nolan suits and implying that that comparison also applies to The Joker's real name being "Jack". THAT is apples and oranges. I know what you're trying to do, but you simply can't compare them. The name of "Jack" in referance to The Joker in Burton's movie is on a completley different creative level than an aspect of the suit.

-Matchbox

[El Payaso]

Yeah, I agree that it was the same concept, however the suit was radically different; the way it was made, the way it looked, moved, etc.

I think you lost yourself there. You weren't just comparing black rubber suits to black rubber suits. You were comparing the black rubber suits of the Burton movies to the Nolan suits and implying that that comparison also applies to The Joker's real name being "Jack". THAT is apples and oranges. I know what you're trying to do, but you simply can't compare them. The name of "Jack" in referance to The Joker in Burton's movie is on a completley different creative level than an aspect of the suit.

-Matchbox

I don't usually come to an agreement too fast. This is an honourable exception. :yay:

[Matchbox]

I don't usually come to an agreement too fast. This is an honourable exception. :yay:

Thanks, man. Also, sorry for the quoting mishap. I'm new and I this quoting thing confounds me.

-Matchbox

[pjspider1C]

At the end of Batman Begins, I was under the impression the Joker was already at large. Instead of seeing his origin story, I'd rather see Batman be a detective and try to solve the mystery of who the Joker is.

[scifiwolf]

I've always assumed that "J. Kerr" was an in joke by the prop people.

As for a proper name, I don't think it should be given. If his name is given, I'd like it to be under these circumstances: Jack is said to be his name, but through investigation, Bruce discovers this to be an alias by which he is most commonly known. Other names are mentioned, none of which are real, either. I think his true name, given at birth, should always remain a mystery. It gives the movie kind of a western quality, as Gotham more and more becomes like the lawless, wild west.

[Kevin Roegele]

At the end of Batman Begins, I was under the impression the Joker was already at large.

Absolutely, but at the start of Batman Begins, Bruce was already an adult. We still got flashbacks.

[pjspider1C]

^ It was more effective for Batman Begins to use flashbacks, because it's always better to show what happened as opposed to just telling what happened. I guess it all depends on the plot of The Dark Knight, but if they can tell the story without flashbacks, I'd prefer that. Flashbacks are a tool to use only if the story would suffer without them.

[lixdexia]

yes, but has nolan made a film without flashbacks yet? they're kinda his signture

[pjspider1C]

^ LOL... after thinking about Memento, that's absolutely true. :)

[Devon_Farmer]

How about Jokers real name is:

Joe Kerr.

[The Count]

^no!

[donk70]

I still like Edgar

[Devon_Farmer]

^no!

Just letting you know... It was a joke.

[itsthebatman]

Just letting you know... It was a joke.
Got any Ambrosia? Devon knows how they make it so creamy.

[Vile]

His name should be Joey!

Then they cast William Hurt as forensic cop just so he can walk in on a crime scene and say, "Jeeeeeeessuuuus Jooooeeeeey."

=)

[pjspider1C]

I'd rather have the Joker not have a name. Keep is true identity unknown.

[Catman]

1. A Jack is the weakest of the picture cards in a deck. A Joker is a wild card.

True.

Any connotations to the previous movies should be avoided IMO.

But Jack has been referenced in the comics and cartoons!

The film begins with him already as The Joker. I suspect Nolan is bypassing the origin completely, given the ending of the last pic.

No flashbacks?! :huh:

For one, Nolan has said that TDK picks up directly after Batman Begins, so I imagine there'd be no origin.

No classic Nolan flashback?! :huh:

Or how about Joe Kerr?


ba-da-bump

Kinda like Jan Itor on Scrubs! :o

TEOL.

Stop that!

http://img477.imageshack.us/img477/10/yeepikayohqq2.jpg

Yeehaw. Still the first to post screen caps. I highlighted the interesting parts, but for you who still can't see it says:

Suspect: Unknown

Recovered by: J. Kerr

Signature: JK (JK-just kidding, interesting huh?)

:wow: :eek:

[pjspider1C]

^ You know, based on that picture - it means that Joker is the one that filled out that little evidence slip and put the card in a plastic baggy. Which would indicate the Joker put on a disguise, infiltrated the police force, and made his way into the crime of the whatever crime he just committed. That's certainly a lot of effort, but the Joker I'm sure is very capable of doing it.

Regardless, I'm sure those inititials are just a nod to the fans and nothing more.

[BubbaGump]

^ You know, based on that picture - it means that Joker is the one that filled out that little evidence slip and put the card in a plastic baggy. Which would indicate the Joker put on a disguise, infiltrated the police force, and made his way into the crime of the whatever crime he just committed. That's certainly a lot of effort, but the Joker I'm sure is very capable of doing it.

Regardless, I'm sure those inititials are just a nod to the fans and nothing more.

I thought that too, but I think it's just a tribute to the fans. Hardly anyone here noticed it, and I bet none of the casual movie goers caught it either.

Just a tribute to the fans.

[dark_b]

I thought that too, but I think it's just a tribute to the fans. Hardly anyone here noticed it, and I bet none of the casual movie goers caught it either.

Just a tribute to the fans.
i agree. this was 100% for the fans.

[pjspider1C]

Under "Evidence Description" does it say Playtoy? It says Play-something... but I can't make out the rest. And is the number below it anything significant?

[Bond]

It says Playing Card.

[sasquatchs]

Is that a custom Joker design or can you buy it in shops? Wonder if he uses several different designs

[Bond]

I've looked for it numerous times.

The exact same card was first featured in Morrison's "Arkham Asylum."

[Seen]

No flashbacks.

[Two-Face]

No flashbacks.

Nolan always does flashbacks in his films

Memento
The Prestige
Batman Begins
Insomania (this one not sure about)

[Seen]

I wouldn't call them flashbacks ... more like never having a film go from start to finish (however Insomnia is an exception).

I have a feeling The Dark Knight will also be added to the list of exceptions.

[TheBat812]

I thought that too, but I think it's just a tribute to the fans. Hardly anyone here noticed it, and I bet none of the casual movie goers caught it either.

Just a tribute to the fans.
yup, it's little things they do just for fun.

[Katsuro]

Nolan can, and probably will, do plenty of flashbacks, but I still dont think his name should be revealed.

Unless he has an absurd amount of screentime, it should be very, very easy to just not mention this character's real name.

[lordofthenerds]

To take it a step further, I believe giving him a name would actually be detrimental to the character. I think giving him a real name at all would be a huge mistake. It would take away from the mystery of the character, as well as going against the comics. Sure, they've hinted at a real name here and there, but for 99% of Joker's 70 years of being printed, his name has been a mystery.

It'd be like remaking Clint Eastwood's Fisftul of Dollars trilogy and giving that guy a name. He's not supposed to have one.
Agreed. Plus, his origin supposedly won't be shown in this movie, so calling him anything other than "The Joker" would be pretty futile.

[Mr. Wooden Alligator]

Giving the Joker a name and former origin was one of the few failings of the Tim Burton Batman movies. Hence, there should be only a vague origin, or none at all as many others have called for.

[Borland]

...but we named the monkey Jack.

[creamyiraq]

I don't see the need to give the Joker a name really. If they do, then ok, if they don't, then ok. It doesn't really matter to me either way, but I think that having him as a no name and only as "The Joker" will add to the mystery of the character and make for a better story imo.

[BubbaGump]

yup, it's little things they do just for fun.

Like add Rachel Dawes into BB.

Nolan: Yeah. Just for fun! :yay:

[Borland]

The only real villian with backstory in Begins was Ras, and that was quite vague and revealed near the end of the film; I really do not see why the villans in TDK will be any different.

[Catman]

Nolan always does flashbacks in his films

Memento
The Prestige
Batman Begins
Insomania (this one not sure about)

Insomnia didn't really have a flashback per say. Everytime he went to sleep his past haunted him. Thats why he couldn't really sleep and had INSOMNIA!

[rijuco]

id think it'd be funny if his name was joe kerr and they had this scene

after capture the joker is in an interrogation room for questioning:

officer 1: For the record, please state your name.
joker: (grinning evil smile) I cannot tell a lie...my name is joe kerr...(saying Joker)
Officer2: (Yelling and slamming fist) YOU THINK THIS IS A GAME...tell us your real name!!!
joker: (raised eyebrow, tapping teeth) Yes.
Officer 2:yes?
joker: Life is the biggest game that we all must play. Some are fortunate enough to die young and add their name to my fame... a few, like yourself will grow old and miserable. My name is Joe Kerr (joker)
Officer 1: (loses temper and hits him) you son of a bi--
(Harvey Dent enters the room)
Harvey: HEY! He still has some rights you know. You are excused...
(the two officers leave mumbling how crazy he is)
(Harv sits across the table, and offers the joker a cigarette)
joker: no thank you. cigarettes kill.
(Harv looks at him and lights one up. He blows the smoke in jokers face)
Harvey: Hello Joe.
joker: hello? you two-faced son of a *****. you were only supposed to take the job to insure we got things done without trouble...

(cut to black)

[Great1]

To all of those who think that Joesph Kerr is the Jokers real name. It is not his real name he only went with that name after he killed Batman and snapped back to insanity he used this name as a pun on his moniker not because he remembered it has old name

[Schlosser85]

The only real villian with backstory in Begins was Ras, and that was quite vague and revealed near the end of the film; I really do not see why the villans in TDK will be any different.

To me, the scene that adds the most depth to Ra's was his vague mention of his wife who was apparently murdered, it was an effective little character moment.

Something like that for The Joker would work well, a fleeting vague mention of a past life.

[jimmy]

I think I would like to rent your sig space :(

It's a sound plan!

[Agentsands77]

Character names are important.
Sure, but this is assuming we'll actually know who the guy is pre-Joker. And I don't think we will, so the question "What is his name?" is moot. I think he'll be nameless, aside from "Joker."

Miranda's source indicated that there will be a montage moment indicating why the Joker does what he does, but it's really vague. Not so much an origin as it is a glimpse inside his mind.

As far as the chronology of the story goes, I think it'll be all over the place. There are plenty of indicators that the bank heist which opens the film actually takes place later in the THE DARK KNIGHT's timeline.

[Enite]

Character names are important.

Have you evere SEEN Fight Club? You never know the main character's real name... (Ironically people call him "Jack" for his lines like "I am Jack's comeplete lack of surprise")

~Chase

[robzass]

How about we list reasons why this thread is pointless and completely unnecessary.

[TheBatman072]

Harvey: Hello Joe.
joker: hello? you two-faced son of a *****. you were only supposed to take the job to insure we got things done without trouble...

(cut to black)


What is this supposed to mean?

[rijuco]

a lil plot twist that harv is working with a crime family, but takes the job as DA to help make sure things could be covered up...instead, he falls in love with rachel and decides to play good DA and try and bring down the crime family....setting the joker up for capture...

later the joker gets even by killing rachel and scarring harv. harv is twisted and blames the death of rachel on batman...who he sees kissing rachel in an earlier scene before the joker kidnaps her.

all just a fan idea for a short story i am thinking about writing.

[Superman Prime]

There is no problem in having a minor origin backstory for the Joker in TDK. Stating facts in dialog in this case is better than flashbacks. As far as his name being Jack . . . I'm for it.

[Judson Caspian]

Well, I'm not worried. They won't use that name anyway.

[Mr. Superhero]

The Joker should not have a name. His real name should be left anonymous. He is the Joker. Nobody should know his name.

[Untilteld]

The Joker should not have a name. His real name should be left anonymous. He is the Joker. Nobody should know his name.

Ditto.

[R_Hythlodeus]

It'd be like remaking Clint Eastwood's Fisftul of Dollars trilogy and giving that guy a name. He's not supposed to have one.
his name was Manco

[itsthebatman]

his name was Manco
#His name was Lola, he was a showgirl...

[user123456789]

For one, Nolan has said that TDK picks up directly after Batman Begins, so I imagine there'd be no origin.
flashbacks

[Two-Face]

1. A Jack is the weakest of the picture cards in a deck. A Joker is a wild card.

2. Jack was used in Tim Burton's Batman.

3. It's been used in the animated series.

4. It's been heavily implied in the comics.


That's why I don't want "Jack" because of this. In comics Joker's name was unknown so I rather it stayed that way in TDK.

[Nepenthes]

For one, Nolan has said that TDK picks up directly after Batman Begins, so I imagine there'd be no origin.

Batman can also piece together clues to an origin, even without going into flashbacks

[Figs]

Some people have said that they have referred to him as Jack in the comics...I don't believe them. Anyone know of any issues that prove that? I think he should just be the Joker. AFAIK, Burton's Batman was the first time he was given a name. Someone had mentioned the animated series as another example where he was called Jack, but that was after and heavily in line with Batman '89.

[Kevin Roegele]

Some people have said that they have referred to him as Jack in the comics...I don't believe them. Anyone know of any issues that prove that?

The Batman movie adaption. ;)

[Kebab gud]

in Comics its been implied that his name starts with a J .. not that its Jack..

[Two-Face]

in Comics its been implied that his name starts with a J .. not that its Jack..

Maybe Joker is called "John":o

[Figs]

The Batman movie adaption. ;)


Should have seen that one coming. :woot:

[Caliber]

That's why I don't want "Jack" because of this. In comics Joker's name was unknown so I rather it stayed that way in TDK.

Another why Burtons vision was completly wrong. Joker never had a real name and it was a great myserty.

[Kevin Roegele]

Another why Burtons vision was completly wrong. Joker never had a real name and it was a great myserty.

Burton's Joker does have a name, it's Jack Napier.

[Rockbottom]

Another why Burtons vision was completly wrong. Joker never had a real name and it was a great myserty.
Well what did you want Burton to do? He needed a name, he couldnt just be nameless, they would of had to rewrite to screenplay just for the sake of a name. It wasnt wrong, YOU just dont agree with it.

[Sun_Down]

Burton's Joker does have a name, it's Jack Napier.

He meant that Joker never had a real name in the comics.

[Tojo]

1. A Jack is the weakest of the picture cards in a deck. A Joker is a wild card.

2. Jack was used in Tim Burton's Batman.

3. It's been used in the animated series.

4. It's been heavily implied in the comics.


Mmmmmmmm........NO.

To all points. Don't waste server space dude.

[gdw]

1. A Jack is the weakest of the picture cards in a deck. A Joker is a wild card.

2. Jack was used in Tim Burton's Batman.

3. It's been used in the animated series.

4. It's been heavily implied in the comics.

Um, the first ones actually sound like reasons NOT to use it.

[Kaizer]

For one, Nolan has said that TDK picks up directly after Batman Begins, so I imagine there'd be no origin.

didn´t he say that a year or two has gone by and Batman has started to grow in his role?

[Kevin Roegele]

Mmmmmmmm........NO.

To all points. Don't waste server space dude.

I've been doing that since 2000, get with the programme. :)

[Kevin Roegele]

He meant that Joker never had a real name in the comics.

I know, I'm suggesting that the comics are only one of many existing incarnations of the character and each one is as valid as the next.