Why is there always so much drama involved

[MargotFan]

in the making of a Superman movie and its sequels. The other superhero movies get made every two years or so and Superman always has delays and director controversy. UGH!!!!!

Margot Kidder and Chris Reeve could have had a string of successful Superman movies had Donner been allowed to direct all the movies. And today ... a new director could do the same. I'm fed up!!!

[Grinder]

It's the studio's fault. WB have no idea what to do with their properties. Could be worse and FOX could own DC *urgh* BUT they're still not on solid grounds. It's a shame that after so many years and so much history we still have just Batman and Superman who are featured on the big screen. It's time to bring out the other ones too. Problem is, WB have no friggin idea how to make them happen!

I'm very intrigued what MARVEL can achieve in the next 10 years. Afaik, it's the first time that a comic distributor also makes the movies about their characters.

[GreenKToo]

well, w.b. had the flash and w.w. in the works, but canned it. I just dont get them.

[Docker2.0]

It's the studio's fault. WB have no idea what to do with their properties. Could be worse and FOX could own DC *urgh* BUT they're still not on solid grounds. It's a shame that after so many years and so much history we still have just Batman and Superman who are featured on the big screen. It's time to bring out the other ones too. Problem is, WB have no friggin idea how to make them happen!

I'm very intrigued what MARVEL can achieve in the next 10 years. Afaik, it's the first time that a comic distributor also makes the movies about their characters.

Yeah cause WB is soooooo much better than Fox! :whatever: This has nothing to do with the WB, this is Singer doing EXACTLY what he wants to do, just like he did with X3, putting it off for his own reasons. With this happening, don't be surprised if you hear the drums for JLA or world's finest start to get louder.

[C. Lee]

Part of it is due I think to corporate mentality.

Marvel sells rights of character to studio...and says make it.

DC is owned by Warner Brothers....who is part of Time Warner AOL......lot more execs sticking their 2 cents in.

[ThanosOfTitans]

It's the studio's fault. WB have no idea what to do with their properties. Could be worse and FOX could own DC *urgh* BUT they're still not on solid grounds. It's a shame that after so many years and so much history we still have just Batman and Superman who are featured on the big screen. It's time to bring out the other ones too. Problem is, WB have no friggin idea how to make them happen!

I'm very intrigued what MARVEL can achieve in the next 10 years. Afaik, it's the first time that a comic distributor also makes the movies about their characters.


I actually prefer Fox over the WB. lol Other than Harry Potter, the WB don't know what the hell to do with themselves. The WB and Fox are both motivated by the potential profits these properties can generate, but Fox hasn't been keeping some of our favorite comicbooks in preproduction for eternities...Fox decides on a property to hit the big screen and it moves full steam ahead. I'm not saying fox is perfect, because I hate the fact that they rushed the X3 production...and they do sacrifice quality to make a quick buck, but hey....it's better than nothing..and I'm glad I get to see some of these heroes hit the big screen. And the movies are still entertaining. If WB can't get these properties off the ground and make decent movies..maybe they need to give up the rights to a more capable studio.

[Matt]

Part of it is due I think to corporate mentality.

Marvel sells rights of character to studio...and says make it.

DC is owned by Warner Brothers....who is part of Time Warner AOL......lot more execs sticking their 2 cents in.

In all fairness though, its easy for us to say "Make it!"

For the most part we haven't read scripts of Wonder Woman, Flash, etc. We do not have estimated budgets, and it is not our money on the line.

I'd like everyone to put themselves in WB's shoes for a few minutes. If it was your money on the line, and SR put up the numbers it did...would you really be so anxious to trust Singer with 200 million more of your money?

[Grinder]

Don't get me wrong, I don't think WB are great or anything! But FOX have screwed up so many characters, I'm somewhat "happy" that WB just didn't do it that way. So we still have something to look forward to in the future.

On the other hand, WB aren't the right studio for adapting comic characters. They seem to always go to the wrong guy for the job or end up fireing the right guy before or in between production. It's clearly their fault for handing the jobs to the wrong people. Singer, back in '04, had a good reputation and was just lucky to be around. I'm pretty certain that there will be no Singerman 2.

[C. Lee]

In all fairness though, its easy for us to say "Make it!"

For the most part we haven't read scripts of Wonder Woman, Flash, etc. We do not have estimated budgets, and it is not our money on the line.

I'd like everyone to put themselves in WB's shoes for a few minutes. If it was your money on the line, and SR put up the numbers it did...would you really be so anxious to trust Singer with 200 million more of your money?

I didn't say it was necessarily a good thing (some Marvel movies needed more prep time)....I was just pointing out the difference between the companies.

[GreenKToo]

Have you ever heard the saying *too many cooks spoil the soup*. that fits here perfectly.:woot: Part of it is due I think to corporate mentality.

Marvel sells rights of character to studio...and says make it.

DC is owned by Warner Brothers....who is part of Time Warner AOL......lot more execs sticking their 2 cents in.

[Matt]

I didn't say it was necessarily a good thing (some Marvel movies needed more prep time)....I was just pointing out the difference between the companies.

Oh, I understand. My post was more directed at everyone else who is just saying "DAMN WARNER FOR NOT GIVING SINGER UNLIMITED CASH TO MAKE A SEQUEL!"

[fabman]

"...and for not spending their entire money just on comic book movies such as The Flash and Wonder Woman."

[Excel]

Sorry, but how can it be the studio when the directors are given total control?

[Matt]

Sorry, but how can it be the studio when the directors are given total control?

Exactly! Warners gave Singer unlimited control...and it bit them right in the ass. Everyone think if it was your money, and be 100 % honest. Would you take the risk again?

[Grinder]

...

[ThanosOfTitans]

In all fairness though, its easy for us to say "Make it!"

For the most part we haven't read scripts of Wonder Woman, Flash, etc. We do not have estimated budgets, and it is not our money on the line.

I'd like everyone to put themselves in WB's shoes for a few minutes. If it was your money on the line, and SR put up the numbers it did...would you really be so anxious to trust Singer with 200 million more of your money?


HELL NO! but they don't HAVE to go with Singer. They never did. They should have left him on the X-men franchise.

[ThanosOfTitans]

Don't get me wrong, I don't think WB are great or anything! But FOX have screwed up so many characters, I'm somewhat "happy" that WB just didn't do it that way. So we still have something to look forward to in the future.

On the other hand, WB aren't the right studio for adapting comic characters. They seem to always go to the wrong guy for the job or end up fireing the right guy before or in between production. It's clearly their fault for handing the jobs to the wrong people. Singer, back in '04, had a good reputation and was just lucky to be around. I'm pretty certain that there will be no Singerman 2.


Well, they still have the Batman franchise. and 300 turned out to be pretty good. The Harry Potter franchise will be coming to a close soon, but I think the HP movies will always satisfy expectations as far as box office performance. Hopefully, the WB will keep the Batman franchise going in the right direction.

[FlawlessVictory]

Exactly! Warners gave Singer unlimited control...and it bit them right in the ass. Everyone think if it was your money, and be 100 % honest. Would you take the risk again?

So WB didn't even have to ok the script? :csad: That explains how this story was allowed to be made.

[Docker2.0]

Sorry, but how can it be the studio when the directors are given total control?

Thank you! People bash Fox and WB so much that when they are innocent, I've GOT to step in!

[Excel]

Thank you! People bash Fox and WB so much that when they are innocent, I've GOT to step in!

W.B. is innocent. Fox, however. No.

[Docker2.0]

W.B. is innocent. Fox, however. No.

:(

I like F42.

[Excel]

Me too. Daredevil and FF1 however...

[Docker2.0]

Me too. Daredevil and FF1 however...

How can you say you hate DD but not mention Elektra? You lose all your street cred. :(

[C. Lee]

How can you say you hate DD but not mention Elektra? You lose all your street cred. :(

Street cred....that's what you scrapeoff of your shoe before going in the house....ain't it?:woot:

[\S/JcDc\S/]

It does kind of suck that AFTER having a Superman movie after all this time the development of a sequel feels just like how it did before we had a Superman movie. Ah the uncertainty of it all. Blows the mind.

[odiin]

*sigh* At this rate they're going to have to call it "Superman Returns Returns."

[Mr. Socko]

Superman movie curse............?

[Lighthouse]

in the making of a Superman movie and its sequels. The other superhero movies get made every two years or so and Superman always has delays and director controversy. UGH!!!!!

Margot Kidder and Chris Reeve could have had a string of successful Superman movies had Donner been allowed to direct all the movies. And today ... a new director could do the same. I'm fed up!!!

This is part of the reason I'm so damn fascinated by the Superman boards. I didn't like SR, and I really don't care about a sequel, but all of this drama interests the hell outta me. I haven't seen the boards like this since the McG/Ratner/Abrams years. Welling vs Bomer vs Cavill, the Abrams script, suit in a can, WB desperately trying to get Josh Hartnett. Now THAT was drama.

[buggs0268]

in the making of a Superman movie and its sequels. The other superhero movies get made every two years or so and Superman always has delays and director controversy. UGH!!!!!

Margot Kidder and Chris Reeve could have had a string of successful Superman movies had Donner been allowed to direct all the movies. And today ... a new director could do the same. I'm fed up!!!
It's because the Salkind's owned the rights to the character to make films at the time. Warner's would only buy the final product. Donner said something stupid at a party to a Variety writer, and it got in Variety. The Salkind's stood by their guy instead of Donner.

But the whole thing started because the elder Salkind was a crook. They stiffed the crew that they worked with in Canada. The elder Salkind was actually made a criminal from the money he took for the making of STM. They never told Donner how much of a budget he had to work with, and so Donner just tried to do as best he could. Finally Donner got fed up and didn't want to deal with them.

[buggs0268]

Part of it is due I think to corporate mentality.

Marvel sells rights of character to studio...and says make it.

DC is owned by Warner Brothers....who is part of Time Warner AOL......lot more execs sticking their 2 cents in.
And also too is that Marvel had the luxury of spreading their properties around town to the different studios who could seperately finance them. Warner Brothers owns DC and has to finance all the other films they have to make on their slate and chose which Character they thing will make the most money.

[mego joe]

This is part of the reason I'm so damn fascinated by the Superman boards. I didn't like SR, and I really don't care about a sequel, but all of this drama interests the hell outta me. I haven't seen the boards like this since the McG/Ratner/Abrams years. Welling vs Bomer vs Cavill, the Abrams script, suit in a can, WB desperately trying to get Josh Hartnett. Now THAT was drama.

I'm with you there. IT's amazing how much back and forth there still is on a movie that is a year old. Of course if we knew something specific about the future of the sequel/ non-sequel it might be a bit different.

I think the other aspect is that SUperman is important to a lot of people and want to see the character translated well in a new film franchise and SR just wasn't what it should've been, so that faction of Superman fans want something new that does it, and not a continuation of the SR franchise.

[superbaby]

It does kind of suck that AFTER having a Superman movie after all this time the development of a sequel feels just like how it did before we had a Superman movie. Ah the uncertainty of it all. Blows the mind.
ya, that's really sad.

[BMM]

Yeah cause WB is soooooo much better than Fox! :whatever: This has nothing to do with the WB, this is Singer doing EXACTLY what he wants to do, just like he did with X3, putting it off for his own reasons. With this happening, don't be surprised if you hear the drums for JLA or world's finest start to get louder.

That's not what happened with X-Men 3 at all.

[superbaby]

Superman movie curse............?
guess so.

[Visionary]

There is no Superman movie curse, just find the right story, super-powered villain and director to pull it off, without riding the back of Donner's version.

[buggs0268]

So much drama because a superman movie needs to make a lot of money for the studio.

[superbaby]

There is no Superman movie curse, just find the right story, super-powered villain and director to pull it off, without riding the back of Donner's version.
they have been doing it since SII. still in vain. :csad:

[superbaby]

in the making of a Superman movie and its sequels. The other superhero movies get made every two years or so and Superman always has delays and director controversy. UGH!!!!!

Margot Kidder and Chris Reeve could have had a string of successful Superman movies had Donner been allowed to direct all the movies. And today ... a new director could do the same. I'm fed up!!!
ya, frustrated without any good news.

like some suggested, if singer got fired, we'll then not get a superman movie for a long time. guess another decade to take to kick start it again.

[merced]

I'm with you there. IT's amazing how much back and forth there still is on a movie that is a year old. Of course if we knew something specific about the future of the sequel/ non-sequel it might be a bit different.

I think the other aspect is that SUperman is important to a lot of people and want to see the character translated well in a new film franchise and SR just wasn't what it should've been, so that faction of Superman fans want something new that does it, and not a continuation of the SR franchise.

What I want to know is how WB sees the sequel/non-sequel thing. Fans want one or the other. Million dolllar question is how does WB see it. If they don't go with Singer do they continue development on a nonsequel or is it on indefinite hold?. I don't want to wait a decade before WB starts up development again.

[Lobster Charlie]

The problem, as I see it, is the studios are too afraid to tackle what this character truly represents.

Superman is basically the symbol of America, in a lot of ways. He's super-powered, but with a heart of gold. The concept of an alien being more powerful than anything the planet has ever seen, capable of dominating all of us and making his slaves, but DOESN'T because he just so happened to be raised in the midwest by a good family--that's good stuff.

They need to focus more on Clark's background, what Pa Kent taught him to believe in, his life in Smallville, all the good stuff that makes Superman so human. Show us why these values are good, and why all of us should follow this example. That takes a certain degree of skill to drive a message like that to the audience without coming off ham-fisted or corny.

I think with a real Superman film, the creators have an opportunity to dodge all the cynicism that permeates our culture, and to use an American icon to help clean up our tarnished image a bit. Superman would never agree with a invading Iraq, would he? I mean, Michael Moore can make a film about why our country is so jacked up,and audiences line up to cheer him on. Why not have a socio/political message behind a Superman film? Why not show us why and how we all can do better?

If they decide to go all "alien invasion" with it, we need to be shown why our world is worth protecting. Through the myopia of the average, jaded, cynical person, this planet doesn't seem so worthy at times. But from the perspective of super-powered being with a good heart, who knows no other home than this one, who was raised with strong moral values...you see where I'm going with this? Superman would need to show us how and why we are special, too.

It may sound corny, but I don't know...just feels like that's what the essence of the character is, to me.

I only hope WB wises up, and doesn't just greenlight another big-budget, cgi-laden action flick with no soul. Nolan nailed a lot of what Batman is about with his film, and while some may disagree with a lot of his choices, that film was more sophisticated than most of the superhero films we've seen in the past 10 years.

[SuperDaniel]

^^^Couldnt have said it better :up:

[bunk]

If they need this much time to actually make good decisions than so be it.

[gimmen64]

The reason there is so much drama with these movies being made is because Superman is the world's greatest hero and is a part of Americana that can't be changed, its like apple pie......so its something you just can't mess with and Superman is one of those things.

[El Payaso]

The reason there is so much drama with these movies being made is because Superman is the world's greatest hero and is a part of Americana that can't be changed, its like apple pie......so its something you just can't mess with and Superman is one of those things.

Yeah, we wish.


The drama comes only from people who needs to make as much money out of Superman as they can. Or even more.

[VenomsMom]

There is no Superman movie curse, just find the right story, super-powered villain and director to pull it off, without riding the back of Donner's version.
Yes..so why is it so hard?

[manofsteel4life]

The problem, as I see it, is the studios are too afraid to tackle what this character truly represents.

Superman is basically the symbol of America, in a lot of ways. He's super-powered, but with a heart of gold. The concept of an alien being more powerful than anything the planet has ever seen, capable of dominating all of us and making his slaves, but DOESN'T because he just so happened to be raised in the midwest by a good family--that's good stuff.

They need to focus more on Clark's background, what Pa Kent taught him to believe in, his life in Smallville, all the good stuff that makes Superman so human. Show us why these values are good, and why all of us should follow this example. That takes a certain degree of skill to drive a message like that to the audience without coming off ham-fisted or corny.

I think with a real Superman film, the creators have an opportunity to dodge all the cynicism that permeates our culture, and to use an American icon to help clean up our tarnished image a bit. Superman would never agree with a invading Iraq, would he? I mean, Michael Moore can make a film about why our country is so jacked up,and audiences line up to cheer him on. Why not have a socio/political message behind a Superman film? Why not show us why and how we all can do better?

If they decide to go all "alien invasion" with it, we need to be shown why our world is worth protecting. Through the myopia of the average, jaded, cynical person, this planet doesn't seem so worthy at times. But from the perspective of super-powered being with a good heart, who knows no other home than this one, who was raised with strong moral values...you see where I'm going with this? Superman would need to show us how and why we are special, too.

It may sound corny, but I don't know...just feels like that's what the essence of the character is, to me.

I only hope WB wises up, and doesn't just greenlight another big-budget, cgi-laden action flick with no soul. Nolan nailed a lot of what Batman is about with his film, and while some may disagree with a lot of his choices, that film was more sophisticated than most of the superhero films we've seen in the past 10 years.
i agree

[mego joe]

Yes..so why is it so hard?

Well, as has been pointed out even professional comic writers have a hard time writing SUperman stories, so think about screenwriters who aren't steeped in the character trying to understand what SUperman is all about.

[mego joe]

The problem, as I see it, is the studios are too afraid to tackle what this character truly represents.

Superman is basically the symbol of America, in a lot of ways. He's super-powered, but with a heart of gold. The concept of an alien being more powerful than anything the planet has ever seen, capable of dominating all of us and making his slaves, but DOESN'T because he just so happened to be raised in the midwest by a good family--that's good stuff.

They need to focus more on Clark's background, what Pa Kent taught him to believe in, his life in Smallville, all the good stuff that makes Superman so human. Show us why these values are good, and why all of us should follow this example. That takes a certain degree of skill to drive a message like that to the audience without coming off ham-fisted or corny.

I think with a real Superman film, the creators have an opportunity to dodge all the cynicism that permeates our culture, and to use an American icon to help clean up our tarnished image a bit. Superman would never agree with a invading Iraq, would he? I mean, Michael Moore can make a film about why our country is so jacked up,and audiences line up to cheer him on. Why not have a socio/political message behind a Superman film? Why not show us why and how we all can do better?

If they decide to go all "alien invasion" with it, we need to be shown why our world is worth protecting. Through the myopia of the average, jaded, cynical person, this planet doesn't seem so worthy at times. But from the perspective of super-powered being with a good heart, who knows no other home than this one, who was raised with strong moral values...you see where I'm going with this? Superman would need to show us how and why we are special, too.

It may sound corny, but I don't know...just feels like that's what the essence of the character is, to me.

I only hope WB wises up, and doesn't just greenlight another big-budget, cgi-laden action flick with no soul. Nolan nailed a lot of what Batman is about with his film, and while some may disagree with a lot of his choices, that film was more sophisticated than most of the superhero films we've seen in the past 10 years.


You're defintely on the right track, especially with "heart of gold" and "values" and "we should all act this way".

THere are some great comic stories that do a good job with this. "Must THere BE A Superman" comes to mind right off the bat as does "Peace On Earth."

As for SUperman supporting or not supporting the invasion of IRaq, go back to the early 90's during the first Gulf War. In the SUperman comics the parallel country was Quarq, and the stories addressed SUperman's opinion on it. If I recall he did get involved and was attacked by the Quarqi gov't. IIRC, Quarq was supporting Intergang as well, sort of a parallel to middle Eastern countries that support terrorism. I haven't read those stories in a long time, but I think I am remmebering them correctly.

[VenomsMom]

Well, as has been pointed out even professional comic writers have a hard time writing SUperman stories, so think about screenwriters who aren't steeped in the character trying to understand what SUperman is all about.
Well I certainly wont dispute that. He is not the easiest character to write for especially being not of this world like most other comic book heroes. But I believe a quality Superman movie can be achieved with a great story, great lesson, great characters from the comics, great villains, and great action that has defined the mythos of Supes and made him the most celebrated fictional character in history.

[mego joe]

Well I certainly wont dispute that. He is not the easiest character to write for especially being not of this world like most other comic book heroes. But I believe a quality Superman movie can be achieved with a great story, great lesson, great characters from the comics, great villains, and great action that has defined the mythos of Supes and made him the most celebrated fictional character in history.

I do too, I think it just takes someone who really understands the character and is not trying to reivnvent him, but instead emphasizes the things that make him great.

[superbaby]

I do too, I think it just takes someone who really understands the character and is not trying to reivnvent him, but instead emphasizes the things that make him great.
after all these years... WB still fails to find that right guy... sad.

[\S/JcDc\S/]

*sigh* At this rate they're going to have to call it "Superman Returns Returns."

No more "returns" stories for at least 15 years please.

[Lighthouse]

Oh my lord!

Jon Peters' Book Proposal (http://tinyurl.com/oglxo3)

[KalMart]

Robert Evans still pwns.

[Maze]

‘Superman Returns’ Producer Talks Reboot, Says Superman Should’ve Kicked More Butt

‘Things are about to get hectic for Scott Mednick. The former “Superman Returns” and “300” executive producer recently announced his involvement in the upcoming “Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles” live-action movie and says he’ll soon be busy producing another major franchise as well. However, one thing Mednick says he won’t be doing anytime soon is taking another crack at rebooting the Superman movie franchise. Of course, that doesn’t mean he doesn’t have an idea or two about who should.

“Bryan Singer is, as we all know from ‘X-Men‘ to ‘Superman’ to ‘House’ on television, a genius,” Mednick told MTV News. “And if anybody can bring [Superman] again to the screen, it’s going to be that team.”

While fully aware of the polarizing lack of punching in “Superman Returns,” Mednick doesn’t regret his time with the Man of Steel. After all, as Mednick points out, in attempting to merge generations of fan expectations, the film “did an enormous amount of money at the box office.”

“In retrospect, hearing from audiences, watching reactions, and having the film get out there, the core fans wanted Superman to kick some serious butt. And we lost several of the villains when the island started to crumble and the large slab fell on them,” Mednick said of the one aspect of the film he would reconsider. “A lot of the fans wanted to have Superman just beat the crap out of them. So that’s an interesting, fan-based point of view, and you have to listen to those fans and try to weigh their wants, needs, and wishes are along with the storytelling.”


http://splashpage.mtv.com/2009/05/21/superman-returns-producer-talks-reboot-says-superman-shouldve-kicked-more-butt/

[smooth3006]

as much as im a HUGE superman nut, i don't see a new movie coming out for at least another 5+ years. there are too many other superhero movies coming out and there has been absolutely no good news surrounding a new superman movie.... reboot nor sequel. :csad:

[NeoRanger]

Wait, wait, wait. They're making another live-action Turtles movie? WHY?

[Lighthouse]

I would go into how action wasn't the major problem with Superman Returns, but I'm pretty sure everything that can be said about the movie has been said.

Title of the article is misleading, since he doesn't really discuss anything about the Superman reboot, except that he's not involved with it. So once again, nobody knows whats going on.

[El Payaso]

SOOOOOOOOOO

Barbra Streisand, Kim Basinger, Pamela Anderson, Nicolette Sheridan, Sharon Stone, Salma Hayek and Catherine Zeta-Jones... amongst others...

http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m387/mrbungle_08/basura/ks03.jpg

:joker:

[KalMart]

Derek Jeter still pwns all.

[Lighthouse]

Derek Jeter still pwns all.

More than Robert Evans?

[Timstuff]

Lack of action was not the only thing that killed SR. It was overall a very dull and depressing story, and it did not give us what we wanted. We still had the scheming goofball Lex Luthor rather than the power hungry CEO, John Kent is still dead, and worst of all Superman is stuck with a illegitimate kid who he can't be a father to! No matter what they do, there's no way to correctly "fix" the situation with Lois. She's in a stable relationship with a good man, and if she leaves him for Superman that makes Superman a homewrecker, and if Richard dies then it will seem phony and too convenient.

It's been 3 years since SR came out, and it was 5 years after Batman and Robin that Warner Bros. rebooted Batman. I hope we don't have to wait that long for "Superman Begins," but it still is taking a while for SR's mediocrity to wash off. I'm hoping that Warner Bros. gets off their asses and tries to get one out for Christmas '11, but that doesn't seem likely to happen, and summer '12 doesn't seem too likely either since that's when Green Lantern is due out.

I think Warner Bros. needs to accept that if they want DC to catch up with Marvel, they're going to have to release more than on DC movie a year!

[KalMart]

More than Robert Evans?

Close, but the award goes to Jeter.

[AntMan]

It's been 3 years since SR came out, and it was 5 years after Batman and Robin that Warner Bros. rebooted Batman.

Actually it was eight years between Batman and Robin and Batman Begins

[Showtime]

It's funny that the Peters expert is mentioning that Peters is working on another Superman film.

[Lighthouse]

It's funny that the Peters expert is mentioning that Peters is working on another Superman film.

And he makes it sound like he was so triumphant with Superman. I can't imagine the amount of money he helped waste in that 10 years of development.

[SuperDaniel]

WB is just ****ing clueless about the character. That's why we never got a good Superman movie in what? 20 years? They're only good with animation. Smallville is a joke too!

[El Payaso]

Lack of action was not the only thing that killed SR. It was overall a very dull and depressing story, and it did not give us what we wanted. We still had the scheming goofball Lex Luthor rather than the power hungry CEO, John Kent is still dead, and worst of all Superman is stuck with a illegitimate kid who he can't be a father to! No matter what they do, there's no way to correctly "fix" the situation with Lois. She's in a stable relationship with a good man, and if she leaves him for Superman that makes Superman a homewrecker, and if Richard dies then it will seem phony and too convenient.

It's been 3 years since SR came out, and it was 5 years after Batman and Robin that Warner Bros. rebooted Batman. I hope we don't have to wait that long for "Superman Begins," but it still is taking a while for SR's mediocrity to wash off. I'm hoping that Warner Bros. gets off their asses and tries to get one out for Christmas '11, but that doesn't seem likely to happen, and summer '12 doesn't seem too likely either since that's when Green Lantern is due out.

I think Warner Bros. needs to accept that if they want DC to catch up with Marvel, they're going to have to release more than on DC movie a year!

I took the libery of replying to your post in the SR discussion thread:

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=324340

[Timstuff]

It's funny that the Peters expert is mentioning that Peters is working on another Superman film.

It took 3 years from concept to release, so 8 - 3 = 5.

[nintendo nerd]

Lack of action was not the only thing that killed SR. It was overall a very dull and depressing story, and it did not give us what we wanted. We still had the scheming goofball Lex Luthor rather than the power hungry CEO, John Kent is still dead, and worst of all Superman is stuck with a illegitimate kid who he can't be a father to! No matter what they do, there's no way to correctly "fix" the situation with Lois. She's in a stable relationship with a good man, and if she leaves him for Superman that makes Superman a homewrecker, and if Richard dies then it will seem phony and too convenient.

It's been 3 years since SR came out, and it was 5 years after Batman and Robin that Warner Bros. rebooted Batman. I hope we don't have to wait that long for "Superman Begins," but it still is taking a while for SR's mediocrity to wash off. I'm hoping that Warner Bros. gets off their asses and tries to get one out for Christmas '11, but that doesn't seem likely to happen, and summer '12 doesn't seem too likely either since that's when Green Lantern is due out.

I think Warner Bros. needs to accept that if they want DC to catch up with Marvel, they're going to have to release more than on DC movie a year!

Why? Oh God Why? Do you always think you have the absolute truth.

Audiences don't care if Pa Kent is alive or not, Audiences don't care if Lex is campy or not. People don't care if the suit is green, purple or yellow. Audiences wanted to see Superman throwing some punches
(incluiding me) . And that's the only point I agree with you. I'm pretty sure that if the movie had a great fighting scene similar to the one we had with TIH we would be discussing a sequel instead of SR.

How do you know they couldn't fix the Jason - Richard situation? Can you read Singer's mind And know what he had planned for a sequel??

You say the movie didn't give us what we wanted? Don't include me,pal. I loved the visuals, the plane rescue scene, Spacey's Lex, the way Metropolis looked, the Daily Planet, New Krypton, seeing Superman really hurt and most of all Brandon Routh for me he is the best Superman ever.
You ask most of the people (I'm not talking about CB fans, because we are a minority) what they thought about SR and they usually say "It was OK, needed more action though". They are not saying or asking " Lex is soooo campy", "Teh suit sux", "Where is Pa Kent?"

Again please, many people liked or loved ( like me) SR and wanted a sequel. Not everyone thinks like you.

[Timstuff]

They can't fix the Richard / Jason situation because it was Bryan Singer's onscreen therapy session, and frankly I do not think that's a direction the franchise should be moving in. It was a stupid place to position the franchise, which is why it never should have happen. I think it'd make more sense to just do an origin story than to try and clean up Singer's mess. He did not bring anything to the franchise that I think is worth hanging on to except possibly Routh, and even he would be easily replaceable in an origin film.

[nintendo nerd]

They can't fix the Richard / Jason situation because it was Bryan Singer's onscreen therapy session, and frankly I do not think that's a direction the franchise should be moving in. It was a stupid place to position the franchise, which is why it never should have happen. I think it'd make more sense to just do an origin story than to try and clean up Singer's mess. He did not bring anything to the franchise that I think is worth hanging on to except possibly Routh, and even he would be easily replaceable in an origin film.

Again, can you read people minds? Did you read a draft from the sequel?

[nintendo nerd]

They can't fix the Richard / Jason situation because it was Bryan Singer's onscreen therapy session, and frankly I do not think that's a direction the franchise should be moving in. It was a stupid place to position the franchise, which is why it never should have happen. I think it'd make more sense to just do an origin story than to try and clean up Singer's mess. He did not bring anything to the franchise that I think is worth hanging on to except possibly Routh, and even he would be easily replaceable in an origin film.

Let me guess......Henry Cavill? :cwink:

[Mostpowerful]

Why? Oh God Why? Do you always think you have the absolute truth.

Audiences don't care if Pa Kent is alive or not, Audiences don't care if Lex is campy or not. People don't care if the suit is green, purple or yellow. Audiences wanted to see Superman throwing some punches
(incluiding me) . And that's the only point I agree with you. I'm pretty sure that if the movie had a great fighting scene similar to the one we had with TIH we would be discussing a sequel instead of SR.

How do you know they couldn't fix the Jason - Richard situation? Can you read Singer's mind And know what he had planned for a sequel??

You say the movie didn't give us what we wanted? Don't include me,pal. I loved the visuals, the plane rescue scene, Spacey's Lex, the way Metropolis looked, the Daily Planet, New Krypton, seeing Superman really hurt and most of all Brandon Routh for me he is the best Superman ever.
You ask most of the people (I'm not talking about CB fans, because we are a minority) what they thought about SR and they usually say "It was OK, needed more action though". They are not saying or asking " Lex is soooo campy", "Teh suit sux", "Where is Pa Kent?"

Again please, many people liked or loved ( like me) SR and wanted a sequel. Not everyone thinks like you.

Bravo! Very well said! :applaud Awesome post, nintendo.

[KalMart]

I think Warner Bros. needs to accept that if they want DC to catch up with Marvel, they're going to have to release more than on DC movie a year!
Well....as I understand it, Marvel has its own movie studio/division that's dedicated solely to developing movies for its characters, and they can go with various big studios for distribution etc.. DC, being owned by WB, doesn't. And honsetly...even though they have fewer comic movies out there, one of theirs trounced all others in terms of success. So I don't think 'keeping up with the Joneses' is as much of a concern as it is with DC comic fans.

[Excel]

Seeing as Marvel is gonna totally fall flat on its face as a studio outside of Iron Man...

[KalMart]

They have kind of milked the cow dry.

Then again, this whole genre's run may have finally peaked if another new franchise doesn't come along and become the new Spidey/Batman...aside from....more Spidey/Batman. :O Could end up being a good thing for another Supes film to wait another four years.....or....people may be tired-out of comic-movies again by then.

[Sam]

How can you say you hate DD but not mention Elektra? You lose all your street cred. :(

And Catwoman? ;)

WB and Fox are not that different. heh

[Timstuff]

I think Marvel's independent efforts have shown a lot of promise. I know Incredible Hulk wasn't an astonishing success, but it was at least a fun an enjoyable film that positioned the character where the first film should have. I don't know what to expect from Thor and Captain America, but I've been wanting to see Joe Johnston have another go at a superhero movie for a long time, so I've got high hopes for the latter.

Anyway, my point is that we're not running out of heroes. Marvel is doing pretty well, but Warner Bros. / DC's problem seems to be, and has been for quite a while, that they put all their effort into Batman and Superman, and let the other heroes slip through the cracks. At least we're finally getting somewhere with Green Lantern, but there's still quite a few iconic DC characters who haven't been tapped yet-- particularly Flash and Wonder Woman.

And yet, they STILL haven't gotten a Superman movie out that people are genuinely happy with! One of my biggest frustrations in life is that I've never gotten a Superman movie that I can honestly say that I like (at least, not a live action one). Batman may be my #1 hero, but that doesn't mean that the lack of a Superman movie that grabs me doesn't still hurt. I've wanted to be able to like a Superman movie my entire life, and yet no-one seems interested in making one that I can. Superman movies have always put me to sleep, and they've always been very limited in scope compared to the comics. For crying out loud, would it really have been so hard for Bryan Singer to sit down and read a comic book or watch the DCAU TV series? Superman can be something incredible, but his movies have always seemed to let me down, even when I see all the other great heroes getting top-notch adaptations. :(

[KalMart]

Do you think that maybe the superhero concept has outgrown Superman a bit? He is the most familiar name/character, but he is also the oldest of the old to a lot of folks.

[Timstuff]

I think the reason why is because the superhero concept has outgrown Donner's Superman, and that's the only version people see in movies (if Bryan Singer's weak emulation of him counts). Superman has kept up with the times in comics and in television, but most people don't get to see that side of Superman. Maybe if that was the Superman that Bryan Singer chose to show instead of turning him into a deadbeat dad who stalks his ex, the character would have gone over better with people. Oh yeah, and punching some robots would have helped, too.

[AntMan]

I would really like to see a movie about the world turning it's back on Superman, and how he deals with that. I think it would would reflect the "Superman is not cool anymore" attitude of mainstream moviegoers. That's something I thought was going to be explored in the last film but it wasn't.

[KalMart]

I think the reason why is because the superhero concept has outgrown Donner's Superman, and that's the only version people see in movies (if Bryan Singer's weak emulation of him counts). Superman has kept up with the times in comics and in television, but most people don't get to see that side of Superman. Maybe if that was the Superman that Bryan Singer chose to show instead of turning him into a deadbeat dad who stalks his ex, the character would have gone over better with people. Oh yeah, and punching some robots would have helped, too.

I could see that, but at the same time, that could also have been at the core of those failed attempts from the 90's. Hopefully, it's still clear that they shouldn't have to go as 'radical'.

The way I put it is that you don't have to refresh/update who and/or what Superman is in movies....you need to refresh/update the experience, raise the stakes and scope in ways that impact contemporary audiences. I think the key to that is in the skill of the storyteller/visionary, not just the understanding or love of the character. Granted, there is a bit of an uphill battle in terms of shaking off the 'older' associations....but Batman and Star Trek did it, and I don't think Superman is any less capable of it as well. They didn't quite have the kind of recent 'false alarm' as Supes, but a little more time should help that.

[KalMart]

I would really like to see a movie about the world turning it's back on Superman, and how he deals with that. I think it would would reflect the "Superman is not cool anymore" attitude of mainstream moviegoers. That's something I thought was going to be explored in the last film but it wasn't.

A while back, I had an idea of a Braniac storyline that I though could make an interesting 2nd movie. TDK's Joker stole a bit of that thunder, in terms of presenting impossible choices and chopping away at the hero's place with his people. But anyway, here's some of it from another....er...place. :P

LINK (http://www.bluetights.net/theplanet/showpost.php?p=999849&postcount=34)

[Timstuff]

I would really like to see a movie about the world turning it's back on Superman, and how he deals with that. I think it would would reflect the "Superman is not cool anymore" attitude of mainstream moviegoers. That's something I thought was going to be explored in the last film but it wasn't.

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/4276/9740000435.jpg (http://img29.imageshack.us/my.php?image=9740000435.jpg)

:D

Seriously though, SR was a wasted opportunity. If you're going to make a movie about Superman returning, they shouldn't have trivialized him leaving. As soon as he comes back, he rekindles his relationship with Lois, and the world welcomes him back with open arms. What the heck happened to Lois's paper "Why the world doesn't need Superman?" Why did she write it, and why did it win a Pulitzer Prize when people welcomed him back like he'd never left?

Imagine the shock of the audience if when Superman landed the airplane in the middle of the baseball stadium, someone shouted "SHOWOFF!", followed by someone else saying "You think this is the first time a plane has gone down since you left?" etc. Also, imagine if Lois actually showed Superman that he hurt her! Maybe when Superman wanted to fly her through Metropolis, she could have said "No, I can't do this again" and then left him hanging?

I'm not saying that's the movie I want... I'm saying that that's the movie Bryan Singer had the premise for, and somehow managed to lose sight of it when it was being written. It was more about Superman being inconvenienced by Lois's relationship with Richard than it was about him returning to a world that had moved on from him, and acting like a creepy emo stalker as a result.

[dark_b]

I would really like to see a movie about the world turning it's back on Superman, and how he deals with that. I think it would would reflect the "Superman is not cool anymore" attitude of mainstream moviegoers. That's something I thought was going to be explored in the last film but it wasn't.ohhhh so like what SR was supposed to be? :hehe:

like superman returning to earth( in reality to the big screen after 20 years).
thats why the title was Superman Returns :wow:

[dark_b]

A while back, I had an idea of a Braniac storyline that I though could make an interesting 2nd movie. TDK's Joker stole a bit of that thunder, in terms of presenting impossible choices and chopping away at the hero's place with his people. But anyway, here's some of it from another....er...place. :P

LINK (http://www.bluetights.net/theplanet/showpost.php?p=999849&postcount=34)
i dont care if it sounds to much like skynet. i really think that those were some interesting ideas.

[Showtime]

And he makes it sound like he was so triumphant with Superman. I can't imagine the amount of money he helped waste in that 10 years of development.

He had nothing to do with Superman Returns in regards to production, he was a producer in name only. He has nothing to do with any other Superman movie going forward. He's out of his tree.

It took 3 years from concept to release, so 8 - 3 = 5.

I have no idea what you are replying too, I think you were trying to reply to somebody else.

[GreenKToo]

IMO, they overcomplicate things with Superman. Any number of stories that have been written before would have made excellent films. Its not rocket science you know.

[dark_b]

you could be right. they maybe think to much. maybe tehy should just make a simple story.

but of course then will people say its to dumb.

[NeoRanger]

The only people who would say it's "too dumb" are probably so stuck up their ass they need lube and a map to get back down.

[KalMart]

you could be right. they maybe think to much. maybe tehy should just make a simple story.

but of course then will people say its to dumb.
The only people who would say it's "too dump" are probably so stuck up their ass they need lube and a map to get back down.
:hehe::grin:

[NeoRanger]

Heh. Train of thought. Ew.

[Showtime]

We're going to end up with no threads at this rate.