Will TDK Show Off Batman's Detective Skills?

[turtlefocker]

After reading the first post I was gonna come in here with a smack down about how Batman WAS a detective in Begins but it appears that that has already been done so ill just quote these excellent posts written by intelligent posters.

The entire second act of Begins is an investigation. Except he's not Captain Crime Lab yet, so he has to do it the old fashioned way by staking out and interrogating.


Bale did that(detective work) in Begins. In his study, looking at pictures of people like Gordon. Writing stuff down. The scene where Bale finds the Bat in the house.

He was also investigating Rachel AND Judge Faden. ALSO, he spent some time on the streets, as a bagger. Just to get to know his city a little better.

And the Flass Interrogation. That's what cops do. Albeit, Batman's was a little more severe, bu he STILL was a lot more of a detective than he was in the movies following.



Oh! And another one! After being sprayed by Crane's Fear Gas, after a THREE DAY COMA, he broke down what he was sprayed with.

"I felt these effects before."

And:

"Some kind of hallucinogen, but weaponized and in aerosol form."


And thats, that


_
Also both Jonathan Nolan and Christian Bale have hinted that the detective aspect is being played up much more n TDK so I think it is safe to say that we need not be concerned that there will be no detective work.

[Luchastyle]

sherlock holmes. batman should be like a modern sherlock holmes. forsensics and good old fashioned intuition and deduction.

[explode7]

I dont think Batman would be displaying his detective side in TDK. I mean what the hell Detectives are getting paid for in Gotham, to wait for some dude dressed as a Bat to figure out stuff for them?

[TheBatman072]

I dont think Batman would be displaying his detective side in TDK. I mean what the hell Detectives are getting paid for in Gotham, to wait for some dude dressed as a Bat to figure out stuff for them?


Then why is he a detective in the comics?

[explode7]

Don't ask me ask Bob Kane.

[Bright Knight]

I dont think Batman would be displaying his detective side in TDK. I mean what the hell Detectives are getting paid for in Gotham, to wait for some dude dressed as a Bat to figure out stuff for them?

Isn't that the whole premise of Batman?

[explode7]

Its just a minor premise of Batman. But what I'm trying to say is if Nolan is doing the realistic thing to death why have Batman investigate stuff that actual detectives can. In a realistic world Batman wouldn't have to investigate stuff which has already been investigated he could just steal the evidence from the police.

[Bright Knight]

Its just a minor premise of Batman. But what I'm trying to say is if Nolan is doing the realistic thing to death why have Batman investigate stuff that actual detectives can. In a realistic world Batman wouldn't have to investigate stuff which has already been investigated he could just steal the evidence from the police.


Well in the real world where stuff was already investigated by the police... You wouldn't need Batman, surely?

The whole premise of Batman is that he's a super detective. In fact, he did start off in Detective Comics (DC) after all! He's better than the police detectives. Batman uses his brain. That's why he's the best.

[ray243]

http://images.killermovies.com/forums/smilies/cartoon/blink.gif

I hope he's nothing like that video

Look again at 'L' not light.

It was just saying how can one make detective work be exciting to watch without going too CSI level.

Make it into a battle of wits. A SERIOUS battle of wits with high stakes.

[OneKnight]

I must say that it would be cool if Batman breaks into the bank (or some place) after hours and finds something...hair, fiber that he takes back to the lab. Have him check it out under a microscope, do a series of cool scans or something, and maybe use the clue to find the Joker's secret hideout.

[Nepenthes]

which one is 'L'?

actually no. I'm not watching that again

[ray243]

which one is 'L'?

actually no. I'm not watching that again

It's actually a movie...just that the author put it under ep to avoid youtube from finding the movie.

You don't get to see L until the later part of the movie.

[Hole Shot]

I must say that it would be cool if Batman breaks into the bank (or some place) after hours and finds something...hair, fiber that he takes back to the lab. Have him check it out under a microscope, do a series of cool scans or something, and maybe use the clue to find the Joker's secret hideout.


Like in Point Break?

[OneKnight]

Hmmm....

Less Busey, more Batty.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j162/DarthH/3693452312.jpg

CREEPY!

[vms7591]

I believe there goin o show a lot more of the detective and the way batman/bruce uses his super computer that he has in the batcave, there are a couple of pics where u see him using these computer

[OneKnight]

No Batcave. The mansion burned down.

He works out of his bachelor pad in Gotham City.

[Nepenthes]

Hmmm....

Less Busey, more Batty.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j162/DarthH/3693452312.jpg

CREEPY!

man his head is fcked up

[Monster]

Surely Batman isn't just revolved around beating criminals up, I've seen episodes that deal with the same case go on for about 2-3 shows. This is the cartoon series anyway.

[TheBatman072]

Its just a minor premise of Batman. But what I'm trying to say is if Nolan is doing the realistic thing to death why have Batman investigate stuff that actual detectives can. In a realistic world Batman wouldn't have to investigate stuff which has already been investigated he could just steal the evidence from the police.


Stop. Please. Just stop.

[Monster]

Stop. Please. Just stop.

Lol, classic.

[TheBatman072]

Lol, classic.


I'm just glad this guy and GoogleMe don't post a lot.

[LexCorp]

I would want to show how Bruce gets his skills with being a dective. Up untill now Bruce is just Batman. There is not much detecting going on. But as it was an origin story so be it.

[turtlefocker]

If GoogleMe posted anymore than he does now I would kill myself, well maybe not but i might think about it

[Monster]

I'm just glad this guy and GoogleMe don't post a lot.

Then you'd be dead :D

[LexCorp]

Who is google me?

[TheBatman072]

Who is google me?


Guy who WORSHIPS Burton's movies and badmouths EVERYTHING about Nolan's every chance he gets.

[Monster]

Lol.

That's got to be funny.

[TheBatman072]

Lol.

That's got to be funny.


He doesn't even try to hide it. I'm not sure if he does it on purpose, or on accident.

[Darkness Falls]

Guy who WORSHIPS Burton's movies and badmouths EVERYTHING about Nolan's every chance he gets.


I will never understand why
you can't like both :huh:

[LexCorp]

I like both...weird guy?

[TheBatman072]

I will never understand why
you can't like both :huh:


That's not my point.


He's in a Nolan's movie forum, badmouthing Nolan's movies. If he doesn't like them, regardless of being able to express an opinion or not, he doesn't HAVE to be here. He's got the misc. forum.

[Darkness Falls]

I like both...weird guy?



I like both aswell
burton and nolan aren't in competition
with each other
both are equal
but you can't seem to get that through some people

[Darkness Falls]

That's not my point.


He's in a Nolan's movie forum, badmouthing Nolan's movies. If he doesn't like them, regardless of being able to express an opinion or not, he doesn't HAVE to be here. He's got the misc. forum.

I get what ur sayin
agreed

[LexCorp]

Maybe he just needs sex? That fixes 99% of a guys problems right.

[Darkness Falls]

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

[LexCorp]

It's true :)

[Darkness Falls]

i must look for posts from Google Me
maybe they'll make me die of laughter

LOL:woot:

[Monster]

I'm with the other 1% :D

[LexCorp]

What is that 1% problem that can not be solved by sex for a man?

[turtlefocker]

impotence

[Darkness Falls]

The possibilities are endless dude

[turtlefocker]

a bullet wound on the penis

[LexCorp]

a bullet wound on the penis
rofl :hyper:

[Monster]

It's the fat that covers my stomach that prevents me from seeing or feeling my penis.

LOL

Jokes.

[LexCorp]

Ha the fat, how I laugh at the fat people.

[Capt Throbberson]

You're disappearing inside this World of Warcraft monster of yours

"Gnomes frighten me, it's time my enemies shared my dread"

[Monster]

Wouldn't agree more.

[hyperhulka]

what a bad thread.

[Batman>all]

He did back ground check on Gordon and stuff

He did searches in the narrows

He was spying on Carmone and Flass

He interrogated Flass

He took photo's of Judge Faden

He gathered info on DA's

Does that all count as detective type work?

[mcflytrap]

That's funny. Becuase I could have SWORE that, in Batman's BEGINNING year, he wasn't the world's greatest anything.


You see, stuff like that, to be the World's Greatest at something, takes TIME.

OWNED

[mcflytrap]

There's something really comical about imagining a man dressed as a bat stepping under the police lines and asking for coffee from the uniformed officer on the scene...then pulling out his Batman Trapper Keeper and taking notes...

[the_monk]

What is that 1% problem that can not be solved by sex for a man?

HIV/AIDS

[turtlefocker]

The new WIZARD article mentions detective work:

On the law-abiding side of things, Gordon gets a hand from a character named Detective Ramirez played by actress Monique Curnen (“Dexter”). Early reports indicated Curnen would play Renee Montoya, a female detective in Batman comic book continuity, but have since been scuttled. Also look for Wayne to relocate into a downtown penthouse since his family mansion burned to the ground in the last film. And expect plenty of development in Batman’s arsenal of skills.

“In this movie he does much more easily assume a more detective type role,” says Nolan.

“That was something that was important for us to get in the first film. We got in there in a small way, but in dealing with the origin and dealing with all of the large aspects of the character I think it became very difficult to get that in there. What we’ve tried to put in this is all of the stuff that we couldn’t get in the first film. Him as a detective is one of those aspects.”

All in all, Nolan and company stayed true to their attempt at remaking the Batman franchise for a new generation. From creating a fully realized pocket universe to explaining the use of gadgets and gizmos in a completely tangible ways to well-rounded characters whose motivations are understandable, it’s sometimes easy to forget he’s making a comic book movie. But Nolan’s bucked that negative stigma and it’s due in large part to his star.

“I think that if anything, with sequels, people start getting a little complacent about it’s and it’s nice to try and maintain“ muses Bale. “I always enjoy when people are thinking that a movie is going to fail miserably. I get quite a kick out of that. It’s tougher for me to deal with when everyone thinks that it’s going to be a home run from the get-go. I don’t know what to do with it as much.”


http://forums.superherohype.com/images/smilies/BMBW.gif

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Finally, people have they're proof. Thank you.

[Tatsumarushinob]

I equal Batman Begins with Batman:Year One. In both, there is a fair amount of disguise missions and taping conversations. In both Batman is more muscle and weaponry. He is more investigating more than actually detecting criminal m.o. No when you go into the Long Halloween and Dark Victory he is a full fledged detective. I don't know, you guys might know better than me.

[William_C]

:) Sufficient
I think that will be good. After a few watchings of Batman Begins, I was kinda wanting to see more of the magnifying glass type of, searching, documents, investigations, footprint type stuff. Might've been a CSI marathon before that, I dunno. But either way, I'm sure it'll be enjoyable for those yearning for some detective Bruce/Bats

[Micah12345]

TC will only be content if there is a scene that has bruce pouring florescent colored liquid between beakers.

[Paste Pot Pete]

Why the hell have a Latina detective and name her Ramirez instead of Montoya?

[thejestergod6]

plot device

[The Guard]

I have to be honest. While he may end up being some fashion of detective, he's not going to be the world's greatest in this franchise. You have to learn things like that...and to date, Bruce hasn't.

[ray243]

Well...batman did do some detective work...and all those work are meant to be boring...

What? Do you expect any job to be full of excitment? Like I said...being a detective can be boring at times...



I Know what kind of detective work you guys want. You want a plot twist kind of detective work...


For that to work, you would need a equal or even footing enemy on a intellectual level. Someone who is able to match wits with batman.

You want a detective aspect of batman to be something like the movie death note, where two brilliant minded person constantly tried to win a battle of wits. Hiding evidence, deception, recovering evidence.


In batman begins, you can hardly see anyone who has that kind of time and intelligient other than Ra's Al Gul.

But that plot twist is boring because you don't get to see Ra's trying to outthink batman.


You want to see a sceanrio where batman outthinks is enemy. Well...if you guys want to enjoy that...I would suggest to you to stop reading spoilers.


A dectective story spoilers CAN spoil the story ALOT. It can easily that away enjoyments from the book or film once you know the ending.

[SimpleHero82]

i mean there is that one leaked still of bruce and alfred working at his computer desk taking notes and stuff. That proves that at least in one scene he's figuring something out.

[FlawlessVictory]

Why the hell have a Latina detective and name her Ramirez instead of Montoya?

That's the twist for the movie, she really is Montoya! :wow::lips:

[afan]

In the Bourne Identity there's a great scene in a diner when Jason Bourne details everything he "knows" about his surroundings and the other people in the diner, based soley on his powers of observation. While it is true that his skill as a detective has been hinted at, this skill has not been included to date.

That's what I want to see in a Batman film. He walks into a crime scene covertly with Gordon, perhaps just prior to the arrival of Gotham's "official" crime units, and after a moment of observation is capable of accurately determining many details of the crime. Morgan Freeman also did this sort of thing in "Se7en".

[Bat-Mite]

I have to be honest. While he may end up being some fashion of detective, he's not going to be the world's greatest in this franchise. You have to learn things like that...and to date, Bruce hasn't.I guess that you've seen the super deluxe director's cut edition of Batman Begins, then? The one that goes into thorough detail about how he never, ever studied to become a detective? Even though that in BB there were still YEARS in his life that we don't know about from the time of his childhood up until the time he decides to travel abroad.

[Stotch]

Batman did so some detective work in BB by asking Gordon those questions and figuring out what's going on with the drug shipments and stuff. It's not like he just magically knew there was something wrong and glided there :P

Besides, it'd be a little boring to watch Batman do some CSI work, no?

B: *Examines bed sheets* "There's some semen in here..."

Gordon: "So she was raped...."

B: "No, she wasn't. This is dog semen."

Gordon: "Why, there's dog hair in there?"

B: No. *sniffs at blanket* "It's dog semen for sure. Trust me."

[afan]

Besides, it'd be a little boring to watch Batman do some CSI work, no?




No.
Obviously the success of the CSI series demonstrates how wrong you are.

[Axtech]

Batman did so some detective work in BB by asking Gordon those questions and figuring out what's going on with the drug shipments and stuff. It's not like he just magically knew there was something wrong and glided there :P

Besides, it'd be a little boring to watch Batman do some CSI work, no?

B: *Examines bed sheets* "There's some semen in here..."

Gordon: "So she was raped...."

B: "No, she wasn't. This is dog semen."

Gordon: "Why, there's dog hair in there?"

B: No. *sniffs at blanket* "It's dog semen for sure. Trust me."

you should definitely write the third film for Nolan. that was pure Bats right there.

[Stotch]

No.
Obviously the success of the CSI series demonstrates how wrong you are.

:dry:


How wrong I am? This is Batman. Not CSI.
I'd rather Batman do simple detective work rather than enter some lab and watch him expiriment with liquids and other chemicals for 30 minutes.

[Anita18]

TC will only be content if there is a scene that has bruce pouring florescent colored liquid between beakers.
Bwahahahahhahha!

I'm so amused by the dramatic scenes in CSI of people moving beakers around. Mmm, that's so sexy. :oldrazz:

[Axtech]

CSI: Gotham
Summer 2008

[afan]

:dry:


How wrong I am? This is Batman. Not CSI.
I'd rather Batman do simple detective work rather than enter some lab and watch him expiriment with liquids and other chemicals for 30 minutes.

So Batman does not do "C"rime "S"cene "I"nvestigation?

Of course watching Batman hang out in a lab for 30 minutes would be absurd, but watching him detail a grisly crime scene ala Grissom would be welcome.

[Stotch]

CSI: Gotham
Summer 2008

lol.

Gordon: "Batman, shouldn't you be, y'know fighting some people right now?"

B: "UM, NO. I'm busy expholiating this sheet of linen paper to see if the murderer left any clues at the crime scene. If this bullet is truly from a .38, then we know who our man is.

Gordon: "Batman....he left his name written on the wall, 'Joker was here'. And we have his location now!"

B: "Gordon, CSI is succesful, OK? Which means this'll make the movie successful, too! Just go play over there or something.."

[Stotch]

So Batman does not do "C"rime "S"cene "I"nvestigation?

Of course watching Batman hang out in a lab for 30 minutes would be absurd, but watching him detail a grisly crime scene ala Grissom would be welcome.

What more do you want?:

"Drugs, prints, cargo manifests... This bat character gave us everything."
-Rachel
(Batman Begins)


It's not like he just found all that stuff under a rock, he had to go get it. That's detective work.

[turtlefocker]

:) Sufficient
I think that will be good. After a few watchings of Batman Begins, I was kinda wanting to see more of the magnifying glass type of, searching, documents, investigations, footprint type stuff.

I think we'll be getting a lot of that in TDK.

[The Guard]

Why the hell have a Latina detective and name her Ramirez instead of Montoya?

No clue. Rights issues? It seems like a really stupid oversight, given the opportunity. If she has black hair and resembles Montoya even a little, it will be even stupider.

Although the easy answer is that Nolan and his crew don't know the comics THAT well.

I guess that you've seen the super deluxe director's cut edition of Batman Begins, then? The one that goes into thorough detail about how he never, ever studied to become a detective? Even though that in BB there were still YEARS in his life that we don't know about from the time of his childhood up until the time he decides to travel abroad.

So...by your logic, Bruce may have been a serial killer/rapist before he became Batman, and we can't be sure because the movie doesn't show it?

The detective element is such a key part of his character. Omitting it...not showing it...just doesn't sit right. Especially in a franchise so concerned about where all his skills/gadgets/ideas come from.

I don't mind if he just does some detective work to figure things out, and I'd find that adequate if it's done well, but I doubt he'll ever reach "world's greatest" level.

[nitemareseraph]

Batman did so some detective work in BB by asking Gordon those questions and figuring out what's going on with the drug shipments and stuff. It's not like he just magically knew there was something wrong and glided there :P

Besides, it'd be a little boring to watch Batman do some CSI work, no?

B: *Examines bed sheets* "There's some semen in here..."

Gordon: "So she was raped...."

B: "No, she wasn't. This is dog semen."

Gordon: "Why, there's dog hair in there?"

B: No. *sniffs at blanket* "It's dog semen for sure. Trust me."


LMFAO!!!!! Stotch......you are a sick bastard, and I like you already!

[hatebox]

No clue. Rights issues? It seems like a really stupid oversight, given the opportunity. If she has black hair and resembles Montoya even a little, it will be even stupider.

Although the easy answer is that Nolan and his crew don't know the comics THAT well.


Or.. maybe her character is nothing like Montoya's. Crazy idea, I know.

[The Guard]

The point is "why?" You have a chance to use a character like Rene Montoya, or Bullock, or even Hardback...and you make one/several up instead?

They "used" Flass. Hell, they even showed Zsasz in BEGINS.

If there's a female latin cop in this movie and she's not named Rene Montoya...that's just pointless oversight.

[GoogleMe94]

there have been 5 movies now and if I didn't read the comics I'd be none the wiser as to his genius.

no hint of his deductive reasoning
no hint of observational skills
no hint of his forensic skills
no gathering of clues


not true. in B89, he explained how and solved the jokers poison chemical code, and in batman returns he looked up the penguin on the batcomputer and found out info on the penguins background discovering that he has been a part of many crimes. that to me seems like detective/solving work. and in BB he found out a bit about how he could get to falcone withb a little help from gordon.

[Apollo]

i'd love to see batman with a magnify glass :o :yay:

[samsnee]

I guess that you've seen the super deluxe director's cut edition of Batman Begins, then? The one that goes into thorough detail about how he never, ever studied to become a detective? Even though that in BB there were still YEARS in his life that we don't know about from the time of his childhood up until the time he decides to travel abroad.

My feeling from the movie is that Bruce was in school pretty much until he came back for Chill's trial. They even said something about him going to Princeton. As someone else said, I don't expect this film's version to be the world's greatest detective like in the comics. I was surprised in the scene where Bruce wakes up from the toxin and Fox is explaining what happened to him, he seemed kind of clueless about it. So that right there tells me he isn't Bat-god.

[Spidey-Sean]

are they going to even HINT at this in the new movie.
there have been 5 movies now and if I didn't read the comics I'd be none the wiser as to his genius.

no hint of his deductive reasoning
no hint of observational skills
no hint of his forensic skills
no gathering of clues

if there is ONE avenue I wish they'd explore for ONCE is the fact bats is supposed to put sherlock holmes to shame.

Wrong. In Batman Begins we saw him eavesdropping on conversations multiple times, using disguises such as a street vagabond, and using nightvision to observe where the toxins were going. And everyone else has this thread covered with other references and movie examples. You must be on crack.

[Hyden]

detection is a kind of internal process as is, they can hint at it with showing him investigating a crime scene or breaking in to places, interrogating folk, but in the end, it's mostly in the head. so unless you want to cram a film with frevolous exposition or throw in 1 or 2 upbeat montage scenes that show him doing chemical tests, drawing graphs, all to some druan duran tune, i think you're out of luck

[hegele]

Wrong. In Batman Begins we saw him eavesdropping on conversations multiple times, using disguises such as a street vagabond, and using nightvision to observe where the toxins were going. And everyone else has this thread covered with other references and movie examples. You must be on crack.

AGREED!

I hate hearing complaints about Batmans detective work, he did it in Burton's original with the Joker's toxin, he did it in Returns with Oswald's background and he did it in Begins throughout the entire picture.

I don't know what else you would have liked, some CSI cgi shots of bullet holes??

[The Guard]

There's been detective work in every single Batman movie. He did it offscreen in BATMAN, BATMAN RETURNS was mostly guesswork, BATMAN FOREVER was riddle-solving, BATMAN & ROBIN's was luck, and BATMAN BEGINS showed mostly homework and surveillance. And yes, that's sort of detective work, but people want to see something "classic".

But people want to see Batman at the scene of a crime, doing a forensic investigation. You know, making a series of clever observations and deductions. Sherlock Holmes stuff. No, it's not neccessarily "realistic" tec work, but it's entertaining.

I think this version will do more research/riddle-solving/race-against-the-clock stuff. I imagine The Joker will taunt him, give him chances to save lives via "riddle-like" clues.

[xero1186]

Two words...

Matches Malone

The upper Jersey-sounding under cover goon.

[coleyhinson]

I think Goyer said in an interview somewhere the detective side would be shown more in TDK

[Stotch]

I think this version will do more research/riddle-solving/race-against-the-clock stuff. I imagine The Joker will taunt him, give him chances to save lives via "riddle-like" clues.

B: "If so, the first step of your application process awaits...if you know where to look.......WHERE DO I LOOK?! ****!!"

[ChickenScratch]

He's been presented doing detective work in the previous movies and I'm sure he will again. BB was Bruce getting his feet wet, he's hardly Batman for 3 entire days in the movie.

I would love to see him go more of the Sherlock Holmes and chard boild detective novel style Mike Hammer (from the Mickey Spillain books) and Raymond Chancellor.

[Afrigginhobbit]

I dunno if this has been already said, but Nolan himself said he wanted to put focus on Batman's detective skills more so in this movie than he did in BB.

Him going to Hong Kong is one of those instances.

[Paste Pot Pete]

i'd love to see batman with a magnify glass :o :yay:

I believe the new cowl has a retractable magnifying glass built into it.

[itsthebatman]

i'd love to see batman with a magnify glass :o :yay:
Burning ants on a hot summers day. That's gotta be worth $10 of anyone's money.

[Stotch]

Burning ants on a hot summers day. That's gotta be worth $10 of anyone's money.

Not to mention a good weapon against scarecrow.

Bats: "DIEEEEE!"

Scarecrow: "That hurts......"

Bats: "Just stand still for a few more minutes GOSH!"

[DIRECTOR]

no hint of his deductive reasoning
At his birthday party when he figured out who Ra Al Ghul is? :p

no hint of observational skills
Batman spying to Dr. Crane at Arkum Asylum, is "xray" goggles

no hint of his forensic skills
Batman in the apartment and searching for evidence (the bunnies) just before the Scarecrow attacked him

no gathering of clues
Again in the apartment, also the joker card (clues)

I mean, it was all over Batman Begins

[Paste Pot Pete]

There was too much going on in the movie to begin with, I don't blame Nolan for not stopping the action so Bats can take a lengthy survey of a crime scene.

"Drugs, prints, cargo manifests - this Bat character gave us everything!"

Where do you think he got them? Off eBay?

Sometimes you have to use your imagination and your pre-existing knowledge of Batman to fill in the blanks.

[itsthebatman]

There was too much going on in the movie to begin with, I don't blame Nolan for not stopping the action so Bats can take a lengthy survey of a crime scene.

"Drugs, prints, cargo manifests - this Bat character gave us everything!"

Where do you think he got them? Off eBay?


There was quite the bidding war. He snuck in in the last five minutes and got them. But he never left feedback, oh noes!

[thewhyteman]

Yeah this is silly.

Detective work is as simple as asking questions. And he asked allot of questions.


Detectives have a wide variety of techniques available in conducting investigations. However, the majority of cases are solved by the interrogation of suspects and the interviewing of witnesses, which takes time. Besides interrogations, detectives may rely on a network of informants they have cultivated over the years. Informants often have connections with persons a detective would not be able to approach formally. Evidence collection and preservation can also help in identifying a potential suspect(s).
In criminal investigations, once a detective has suspects in mind, the next step is to produce evidence that will stand up in a court of law. The best way is to obtain a confession from the suspect, usually this is done by developing rapport and at times by seeking information in exchange for potential perks available through the District Attorney's Office, such as entering plea bargain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plea_bargain) for a lesser sentence in exchange for usable information. Detectives may lie, mislead and psychologically pressure a suspect into an admission or confession as long as they do this within procedural boundaries and without the threat of violence or promises outside their control. In the United States suspects may invoke their Miranda rights (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miranda_rights) and refuse to answer any investigative questions until they consult with an attorney.

Well he definitly interrigated some folks. He used psychologya and pressure to get a confession. Got evidence for Rachel Dawes.

Sounds like a caped detective to me.

[ragdus]

No.
Obviously the success of the CSI series demonstrates how wrong you are.

That is predicated upon the mistaken belief that CSI actually shows real CSI stuff.

It's a cop show with short snippets of crime lab investigation drawn out by goofy CGI.

[Paste Pot Pete]

A good detective rattles the cages. And by god, that mother ****** rattled some damn cages!! :brucebat:

[Paste Pot Pete]

That is predicated upon the mistaken belief that CSI actually shows real CSI stuff.

It's a cop show with short snippets of crime lab investigation drawn out by goofy CGI.

Although it would've been awesome had Falcone, when grabbed by Batman at the docks, asked -

"Whooooo are youuu? Who, who? Who, who?"

[ragdus]

lol

[turtlefocker]

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/9139/scan0001ee0.jpg

[I am Batman]

Dude what does the suit have to do with Batman's detective skills?

Anyway I'd love to see Batman do some deducing like Ace Ventura. Check it out at http://youtube.com/watch?v=cGTlQD-JChs at 7:45-8:40

[Shoemeister]

http://www.museum.tv/archives/etv/C/htmlC/columbo/columboIMAGE/columbo.jpg

World's greatest detective, IMO.

[thewhyteman]

Dude what does the suit have to do with Batman's detective skills?

Dunno man. But it sure is pretty damn sweet.

I think its level of awesome automatically allows it to be used in any argument.

For example:

PERSON 1: "I think the fact that Oprah is backing Obama will ensure him a large following."

PERSON 2: "I.... uhhh err yah,

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/9139/scan0001ee0.jpg"

PERSON 1: "Yeah good point"

PERSON 2: "Yeah."

[TNC9852002]

In the first movie, we definitely got the idea that he was getting a hang of everything, learning how to follow up on leads, putting the pieces together...I guess since then, he's had more experience and equipment, and I guess working with Gordon and with his own studies, I can expect more of these detective qualities to be shown like they've said.

-TNC

[Damiean Dark]

It isnt so much the actions of the actors to play the role imo. The aura of a hyper intelligent guy just didnt emanate from Bale for me he is smart sure but he didnt portray the bruce wayne buring intelligence on screen in a convincing and satisfying way. keatons intense brooding wayne showed a genius burning below the surface for me that was convincing especially when he sometimes seemed to talk to himself as he thought out a case you can almost see his brain sorting through the problem. Still for me the most convincing wayne not so much in looks but in the acting persona of a man driven to dress as a bat.

[redfirebird2008]

It isnt so much the actions of the actors to play the role imo. The aura of a hyper intelligent guy just didnt emanate from Bale for me he is smart sure but he didnt portray the bruce wayne buring intelligence on screen in a convincing and satisfying way. keatons intense brooding wayne showed a genius burning below the surface for me that was convincing especially when he sometimes seemed to talk to himself as he thought out a case you can almost see his brain sorting through the problem. Still for me the most convincing wayne not so much in looks but in the acting persona of a man driven to dress as a bat.

Bale owns Keaton as Bruce Wayne. Batman is a different story. I'd give the edge in that area to Keaton. But Wayne? It's not even close.

[TNC9852002]

lol. All of the real geniuses out there ironically, don't appear all that intelligent.

-TNC

[Bowl of Wrong]

B: "If so, the first step of your application process awaits...if you know where to look.......WHERE DO I LOOK?! ****!!"

I can see it now, Batman racing along in his Tumbler to get to the bakery in Midtown before it closes, then going into a petulant rage when the Joker only gives him a poster

[itsthebatman]

http://www.museum.tv/archives/etv/C/htmlC/columbo/columboIMAGE/columbo.jpg

World's greatest detective, IMO.
That'd be great to see in a Batman film.
'So you see, Batman, I couldn't possibly have murdered him. Now be on your way.'
'If you say so, Dr. Strange, Ok'
*Batman shuffles away, then stops, raises his head, and turns around*
'One more thing....'

[vibeke_T]

Or.. maybe her character is nothing like Montoya's. Crazy idea, I know.

theres no way in heck they dont know about montoya ...so i'm betting its a diff character

[Magenta666]

I can see it now, Batman racing along in his Tumbler to get to the bakery in Midtown before it closes, then going into a petulant rage when the Joker only gives him a poster

:lmao: :clown:

[Sun_Down]

Wrong. In Batman Begins we saw him eavesdropping on conversations multiple times, using disguises such as a street vagabond, and using nightvision to observe where the toxins were going. And everyone else has this thread covered with other references and movie examples. You must be on crack.

Batman did nothing special in BB in terms of detective work, really. They tacked on some lines like the Gordon one about Batman delivering evidence, but you can't honestly say you walked away from that movie thinking, "Gee, they really portrayed Batman as a great detective". He did nothing more than any other action film hero. Seriously, go watch Rush Hour. Jackie Chan comes off as a better detective.

[FhFgJg]

well the thing is they portrayed batman in BB to be a very early batman..much like he was written in Year One. He makes mistakes...he's learning. It's jsut like when he's crying after his house blows up and he says "i've failed gotham". he is just a kid and he's trying to fight injustice. It takes time to develop into what he is. That's why i think he will be more comfortable in this one. I love how it develops the character slowly like that.

[turtlefocker]

'So you see, Batman, I couldn't possibly have murdered him. Now be on your way.'
'If you say so, Dr. Strange, Ok'
*Batman shuffles away, then stops, raises his head, and turns around*
'One more thing....'



:hehe:

[Anita18]

It isnt so much the actions of the actors to play the role imo. The aura of a hyper intelligent guy just didnt emanate from Bale for me he is smart sure but he didnt portray the bruce wayne buring intelligence on screen in a convincing and satisfying way.
Having a recently graduated from a competitive liberal arts college, I can tell you that you can't tell who the smartest people are. I had classmates who came off as ditzes, but they were absolutely brilliant. I was highly amused that my physics TA was a pretty blonde girl. She's at Oxford now, getting her PhD in astrophysics.

[Sandouras]

Bale owns Keaton as Bruce Wayne. Batman is a different story. I'd give the edge in that area to Keaton. But Wayne? It's not even close.

Keaton:
BW:
Brooding, brooding, brooding and.... nothing...
Hair falling
short and no muscles
not really a playboy
Batman:
poopy face
killer (blame it on burton)
didnt interrogate like bale did flass (again...burton)
walked in the alley while bale could give predator a run for his money
invulnerable to bullets and plane crashes

Bale:
BW:
Good Hair
Short
handsome, smart,
real playboy: pool stunt!!!!, two girls!, bought hotel, badass Lambo!
emotional where needed: we saw all his strife, his pain and anger
muscles
Batman:
moved like predator/monster.
took about 10 thugs down simultaneously.
louder, scarier voice
interrogation: 1000 points!
smart: escaping train
detective: overhearing and spying, even dressing like a "dude" and spying on Rachel
vulnerable

Again, some of these could be attributed to the director, or the evolution of ideas along the years. Ex: Nolan had to do new things with his batman and actually used some elements that werent used by burton. But then again, a movie batman is a combination of the director's directing and actor's acting. Especially the directing since acting is overshadowed by fighting and the cowl.

So need i tell you which one i prefer?

[wootbaby]

Batman did nothing special in BB in terms of detective work, really. They tacked on some lines like the Gordon one about Batman delivering evidence, but you can't honestly say you walked away from that movie thinking, "Gee, they really portrayed Batman as a great detective". He did nothing more than any other action film hero. Seriously, go watch Rush Hour. Jackie Chan comes off as a better detective.

did you even watch the movie?

[The Caped Knight]

"Drugs, prints, cargo manifests... This bat character gave us everything."
-Rachel
(Batman Begins)


It's not like he just found all that stuff under a rock, he had to go get it. That's detective work.
http://www.webdesign-guru.co.uk/icon/wp-content/uploads/approved.gif

[JJ PLAYA 24]

Keaton:
BW:
Brooding, brooding, brooding and.... nothing...
Hair falling
short and no muscles
not really a playboy
Batman:
poopy face
killer (blame it on burton)
didnt interrogate like bale did flass (again...burton)
walked in the alley while bale could give predator a run for his money
invulnerable to bullets and plane crashes

Bale:
BW:
Good Hair
Short
handsome, smart,
real playboy: pool stunt!!!!, two girls!, bought hotel, badass Lambo!
emotional where needed: we saw all his strife, his pain and anger
muscles
Batman:
moved like predator/monster.
took about 10 thugs down simultaneously.
louder, scarier voice
interrogation: 1000 points!
smart: escaping train
detective: overhearing and spying, even dressing like a "dude" and spying on Rachel
vulnerable

Again, some of these could be attributed to the director, or the evolution of ideas along the years. Ex: Nolan had to do new things with his batman and actually used some elements that werent used by burton. But then again, a movie batman is a combination of the director's directing and actor's acting. Especially the directing since acting is overshadowed by fighting and the cowl.

So need i tell you which one i prefer?

agreed keaton was the **** in '89
but
now bale is the man

[GoblinWhirlwind]

I also thought he was supposed to be a master scientist too..and yet he didn't know what Lucius was talking about after he woke up. That didn't even occur to me until a while back :whatever:

[The Caped Knight]

Bale:
BW:
Good Hair
Short
handsome, smart,
real playboy: pool stunt!!!!, two girls!, bought hotel, badass Lambo!
emotional where needed: we saw all his strife, his pain and anger
muscles
Batman:
moved like predator/monster.
took about 10 thugs down simultaneously.
louder, scarier voice
interrogation: 1000 points!
smart: escaping train
detective: overhearing and spying, even dressing like a "dude" and spying on Rachel
vulnerable

Again, some of these could be attributed to the director, or the evolution of ideas along the years. Ex: Nolan had to do new things with his batman and actually used some elements that werent used by burton. But then again, a movie batman is a combination of the director's directing and actor's acting. Especially the directing since acting is overshadowed by fighting and the cowl.

So need i tell you which one i prefer?

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/6084/bbnew11vb4.jpg

[Matt]

Mystery is a very hard formula to work into a movie like this. But none the less, the aspects of it are there. Bat's investigation on Falcone, while it was off screen, it happened. He pretty much made a case for the D.A.'s office. Unfortunately, while we may get tossed a bone...most of the meat simply has to be sacrificed to get practically every other aspect of the character perfect.

On a side note, I really think, one line that would've been awesome in Batman Begins was once Bruce figured out that Ducard was Ra's, if Ra's gave a sarcastic little "Very good, Detective."

[Hole Shot]

to my knowledge I've seen one sceen that hints at his detective skills and that is B89 where he works out the combination of chemicals made the joker virus, other than that nada.

You're confusing chemistry skills with detective work:

That scene in 89 is him handing Vicki Vale an envelope and saying what he did.

In Begins, he spends a lot his time investigating, interrogating and running surveillance.

I'd rather Batman do that and then punch someone in the face than watch him tool around the Batcave with a lab coat.

[JayTee]

Being a detective is unrealistic and doesn't fit into Nolan's world.

:-P

[perry normal]

As a Law and Order fan, I might be biased, but this is why I hate CSI. People get the idea in their head that if you're not using an ultra-violet light and other superfluous BS, you're not doing detective work. The definition of detective work is so incredibly wide. There's all different shades of it. Ace Ventura, Dick Tracy, Columbo, The Hardy Boys, Darkwing Duck, Lennie Briscoe and Batman are all detectives, just in different ways.

Here's the thing. The most important parts of detective work, in real life, are incredibly boring. Stuff like finding small inconsistencies in various files that don't add up. I like that Begins glossed over Batman taking pictures of Faden and getting cargo manifests and all that. I like knowing he did it, I don't need to see him do it.

That being said, I'd like to see a little more emphasis on the detective stuff in TDK. I was happy with the amount shown in Begins though.

[Matt]

I would really love to see an ongoing subplot throughout the movie of Batman using his detective skills to piece together parts of the Joker's life leading up to his arrival in Gotham, trying to figure out who he is, what makes him tick, etc. I doubt it'll happen, but it could be awesome.

[Hole Shot]

As a Law and Order fan, I might be biased, but this is why I hate CSI. People get the idea in their head that if you're not using an ultra-violet light and other superfluous BS, you're not doing detective work.

I don't watch Law & Order but can't stand CSI for the same reason. And the fact that every episode is exactly the same.

[Matt]

As a Law and Order fan, I might be biased, but this is why I hate CSI. People get the idea in their head that if you're not using an ultra-violet light and other superfluous BS, you're not doing detective work. The definition of detective work is so incredibly wide. There's all different shades of it. Ace Ventura, Dick Tracy, Columbo, The Hardy Boys, Darkwing Duck, Lennie Briscoe and Batman are all detectives, just in different ways.

Here's the thing. The most important parts of detective work, in real life, are incredibly boring. Stuff like finding small inconsistencies in various files that don't add up. I like that Begins glossed over Batman taking pictures of Faden and getting cargo manifests and all that. I like knowing he did it, I don't need to see him do it.

That being said, I'd like to see a little more emphasis on the detective stuff in TDK. I was happy with the amount shown in Begins though.

Great post...and welcome to the Hype :up:

[perry normal]

Great post...and welcome to the Hype :up:

Thanks. Glad to be here.

[TNC9852002]

Oh, and BTW, Christian Bale is like, 6'1". That's not "short" for any male on any continent on earth.

-TNC

[JoeCat]

are they going to even HINT at this in the new movie.
there have been 5 movies now and if I didn't read the comics I'd be none the wiser as to his genius.

no hint of his deductive reasoning
no hint of observational skills
no hint of his forensic skills
no gathering of clues

if there is ONE avenue I wish they'd explore for ONCE is the fact bats is supposed to put sherlock holmes to shame.

Pick up this month's issue of Wizard with the Joker on the cover. Christopher Nolan talks about getting right into it and showing the detective skills.

[Hole Shot]

Oh, and BTW, Christian Bale is like, 6'1". That's not "short" for any male on any continent on earth.

-TNC

At 6'1" he could play center or at least power forward if the SAG started a basketball team.

[LegendaryCaleb]

Oh, and BTW, Christian Bale is like, 6'1". That's not "short" for any male on any continent on earth.

-TNC
thats actually pretty tall to us 5"9'ers...:(

[Sandouras]

Oh, and BTW, Christian Bale is like, 6'1". That's not "short" for any male on any continent on earth.

-TNC
Dude, he is short. Look at how he looked compared to Neeson (by your statement Neeson would be 2.5 metres) and i believe that dent and Fox are taller than him. Look at the scene where he walks in the party where Dent and Rachel are sitting. If he was as tall as you say, the table wouldnt have been at his waist.

[Sandouras]

Mystery is a very hard formula to work into a movie like this. But none the less, the aspects of it are there. Bat's investigation on Falcone, while it was off screen, it happened. He pretty much made a case for the D.A.'s office. Unfortunately, while we may get tossed a bone...most of the meat simply has to be sacrificed to get practically every other aspect of the character perfect.

On a side note, I really think, one line that would've been awesome in Batman Begins was once Bruce figured out that Ducard was Ra's, if Ra's gave a sarcastic little "Very good, Detective."

Too early for him to earn the reputation of the detective isnt it? I mean, he didnt even figure out that Rha's is Ducard. It was laid out in front of him really. But even if he did, you dont call someone a detective just because he figured you out.

Being a detective is unrealistic and doesn't fit into Nolan's world.

:-P

wrong. He did detective work and actually batman is all about detective work. If a director cant do that, then he better gtfo my batman!

[Capt Throbberson]

I also thought he was supposed to be a master scientist too..and yet he didn't know what Lucius was talking about after he woke up. That didn't even occur to me until a while back :whatever:

I figured he was still playing dumb with Lucius when he said that.

[zelas]

Dude, he is short. Look at how he looked compared to Neeson (by your statement Neeson would be 2.5 metres) and i believe that dent and Fox are taller than him. Look at the scene where he walks in the party where Dent and Rachel are sitting. If he was as tall as you say, the table wouldnt have been at his waist.


well, is he 183cm or 185cm? anyway, he is not SHORT...and he will be taller wearing the batsuit,look at the shoes..

[Kargo Warrior]

Dude, he is short. Look at how he looked compared to Neeson (by your statement Neeson would be 2.5 metres) and i believe that dent and Fox are taller than him. Look at the scene where he walks in the party where Dent and Rachel are sitting. If he was as tall as you say, the table wouldnt have been at his waist.

Dude Bale is around 184,185 and in the comics Batman is portrayed as 188 cm(6'2)..Neesom is 6'4 so you cant judge Bale's height compared to him.

[ALP]

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/6084/bbnew11vb4.jpg

Great shot!

Dude, he is short. Look at how he looked compared to Neeson (by your statement Neeson would be 2.5 metres) and i believe that dent and Fox are taller than him. Look at the scene where he walks in the party where Dent and Rachel are sitting. If he was as tall as you say, the table wouldnt have been at his waist.

He isn't short. It's just that Neeson is very very tall.

[Sun_Down]

did you even watch the movie?

Did you? Because unless you were a Batman fan previously, you would not walk out theatre thinking that Batman was any sort of detective.

[Anita18]

He isn't short. It's just that Neeson is very very tall.
After watching BB, my mom commented that Christian was short as well, and I pointed out that it was because practically every male character in the movie, aside from Crane, is 6ft plus. Caine, Hauer, Freeman, Neeson, all of those guys are taller than 6ft. Even Katie Holmes is tall for a woman, she's 5'9".

It's all relative you know. Apparently Gotham has something in the water (aside from fear toxin) that makes people tall. :oldrazz:

ETA: Heath is 6'1", so he should stand eye to eye with Bale. When he's not Joker-slouching, that is...

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Its not like we've never seen any detective work out of the better films.

[itsthebatman]

After watching BB, my mom commented that Christian was short as well, and I pointed out that it was because practically every male character in the movie, aside from Crane, is 6ft plus. Caine, Hauer, Freeman, Neeson, all of those guys are taller than 6ft. Even Katie Holmes is tall for a woman, she's 5'9".

It's all relative you know. Apparently Gotham has something in the water (aside from fear toxin) that makes people tall. :oldrazz:

ETA: Heath is 6'1", so he should stand eye to eye with Bale. When he's not Joker-slouching, that is...
We need to surround Bale with midgets for the third instalment. Perhaps Peter Dinklage could play the Riddler?

[vibeke_T]

agreed keaton was the **** in '89
but
now bale is the man

true dat!

[Sandouras]

I am satisfied with the detetive work on BB. Rachel's line about him giving them everything says a lot. He followed clues, interrogated and spied. Now, some more things could be added, but if they turn this film into another CSI, then goddammit, imma gonna kill you people. One comic page
could fit hours of detective work but in a film they will have to spend a lot of time to satisfy you people, while the film becomes boring and goes to hell!
Batman did a lot of work in BB. THIS IS THE TRUTH. Now if you wanna be the fanboys who's head gets stuck to an idea and who then take things to their extremes, then go ahead, ask for more CSI in my Batman.

[Cyrusbales]

I think we'll end up with a straight forward action film again, rather than something more intricate and detective based.

[JStorm]

It doesn't take a smart man to realize that a crazed guy, that looks like a clown, is terrorizing the city, when there is a crazed guy, that looks like a clown, terrorizing the city.

[Jokers_Wild]

It doesn't take a smart man to realize that a crazed guy, that looks like a clown, is terrorizing the city, when there is a crazed guy, that looks like a clown, terrorizing the city.

Good point! I think initially Batman will have to do some investigating and detective work while the Joker is still making a name for himself--but when it all escalates, BAM! Gotham is going to hell in a hand basket! The only detective work Batman will be doing then may focus on helping Dent bring some of the other gangsta baddies to justice.

[JStorm]

Good point! I think initially Batman will have to do some investigating and detective work while the Joker is still making a name for himself--but when it all escalates, BAM! Gotham is going to hell in a hand basket! The only detective work Batman will be doing then may focus on helping Dent bring some of the other gangsta baddies to justice.

Also a good point.

The Joker never really needs detective work done in his "cases."

I can think of one arc, in the past year, where Batman was foiled by the Joker, and shamed himself for not seeing the "tell-tell" signs.

Other than that, Batman easily picks up on the Jokers trail, if not immediately, not to mention the Joker never hides it. I mean, he kills people on the six o'clock news and then challenges Batman via live feed.

I agree, JW; the Mob will probably get most of the detective work, in TDK.

[Taiwarriorz21]

and that's how the cookie crumbles!

[The Guard]

Bale may be listed at 6'1. That doesn't mean he actually is. It's show biz.

I didn't mind the intelligence or the investigative aspects in BATMAN BEGINS. I would just like to see the intensity factor of his investigations ratcheted up a notch in THE DARK KNIGHT. Maybe something more along the lines of a forensic/deductive process.

[sasquatchs]

I remember a news item saying Gordon allows Batman to enter the bank crime scene at night, has me hopeful

[Nightwing1977]

It great to hear Nolan mention that we will see Batman do plenty of detective works in TDK. I'm looking forward to that. :)

[TNC9852002]

Dude, he is short. Look at how he looked compared to Neeson (by your statement Neeson would be 2.5 metres) and i believe that dent and Fox are taller than him. Look at the scene where he walks in the party where Dent and Rachel are sitting. If he was as tall as you say, the table wouldnt have been at his waist.
Uh, Neeson is like 6'4" and Morgan Freeman is pushing 6'3". Christian is 6'-6'1". He's only short by comparison, but as a man, he still makes the lower range in what's classified as above average height.

Now, Keaton...That's definitely pushing the lower range of average height.

-TNC

[The Guard]

Uh, Neeson is like 6'4" and Morgan Freeman is pushing 6'3"

That's what they're LISTED at.

Again. Showbiz.

[Hole Shot]

That's what they're LISTED at.

Again. Showbiz.

So then if Bale is really 5'10", then Neeson is really 6'1" therefore making it all relative and doesn't matter. Same as if Bale was 6'6" and Neeson was 6'10", Bale would still look shorter.

[Figs]

I remember a news item saying Gordon allows Batman to enter the bank crime scene at night, has me hopeful


I hope to hell that's true! I would love to see a scene or two with Gordon letting Batman look around the scene of a crime.

[Paste Pot Pete]

This argument is brought up again and again and again, by people who seemingly slept through all five Batman movies.

These films are never going to make it a central focus; summer blockbuster = action film, not detective story. Despite that, Nolan, Burton and even Schumacher have included enough aspects, I think.

You always want more, as a fan, but there's only so much that can be included in a two hour movie. Fans want each movie to be a detailed explication of 70 years of Batman history when the best you can reasonably expect is a crash course in the essentials.

Whiners see, and miss, what they want to. I suppose they all had a collective coughing fit during the "This Bat character gave us everything" scene, missing it all. The fact that he brought Falcone to justice almost singlehandedly through detective work is not something to be ignored, even if you think the film should've dwelled on it longer.

[Figs]

This argument is brought up again and again and again, by people who seemingly slept through all five Batman movies.

These films are never going to make it a central focus; summer blockbuster = action film, not detective story. Despite that, Nolan, Burton and even Schumacher have included enough aspects, I think.

You always want more, as a fan, but there's only so much that can be included in a two hour movie. Fans want each movie to be a detailed explication of 70 years of Batman history when the best you can reasonably expect is a crash course in the essentials.

Whiners see, and miss, what they want to. I suppose they all had a collective coughing fit during the "This Bat character gave us everything" scene, missing it all. The fact that he brought Falcone to justice almost singlehandedly through detective work is not something to be ignored, even if you think the film should've dwelled on it longer.


Dude, I never said the previous Batman films didn't have any detective work. I'm actually one of the ones that would be in agreement with you. They all did have detective work, especially BB. I just think that since Nolan said he wanted to show more of that angle in TDK, since he didn't have enough time to show more of it in BB, that a scene with Batman and Gordon at a crime scene would be cool.

[Paste Pot Pete]

Dude, I never said the previous Batman films didn't have any detective work. I'm actually one of the ones that would be in agreement with you. They all did have detective work, especially BB. I just think that since Nolan said he wanted to show more of that angle in TDK, since he didn't have enough time to show more of it in BB, that a scene with Batman and Gordon at a crime scene would be cool.

I wasn't referring to you. I was speaking of the people that do go on and on about how there's no detective work in the films, when there clearly is.

[GregComicFan]

I think what the Batman films are missing is the AHA! moment. For example, we don't need to see Batman doing detective work... I agree... that calls for a slow-moving scene and it's relatively boring. But what all the Batman movies are missing is the "AHA! I FIGURED IT OUT!" moment where Batman has a lightbulb go off in his head and all of a sudden he's figured out the entire mystery. The animated show, the comics... they do this all the time. That's why Batman has become Batgod. He figures out every villain's plot... he makes Superman look stupid. He's always a step ahead of everyone else. That's the Batman moment we are missing...

for example... in Batman Forever, Bruce actually needed the puzzles to figure out Edward Nygma was the Riddler???? what????? the news had the Riddler on camera... but Bruce didn't recognize him as Nygma???

movie Batman just doesn't come off as the genius the animated show and comics have made him out to be for years and years and years.

But I do think Batman Begins did a better job...

-we saw Batman running surveillance.
-we saw Batman sneak into Crane's apartment to snoop around
-Batman pretty much figured out Scarecrow was poisoning the water system in order to expose all of Gotham to the fear toxin
-Batman interrogated people, using fear

-the only time in Batman Begins that Bruce looked less than bright was when Lucius had to explain to him the chemistry behind the toxin...

... but maybe Bruce was just playing dumb. And also, the Batman in the comics would have made an antidote himself in the Batcave.... but then you have to remember Lucius (and Morgan Freeman for that matter) would of then had a lesser part and less of an impact if Bruce understood already how to make an antidote on his own...

So Nolan's Batman is a detective... he's just not a chemist. haha.

The Dark Knight could still deploy an "AHA!" moment though to give us the Batgod were all so used to.

maybe it will :)

Greg

[The Guard]

I think what the Batman films are missing is the AHA! moment. For example, we don't need to see Batman doing detective work... I agree... that calls for a slow-moving scene and it's relatively boring. But what all the Batman movies are missing is the "AHA! I FIGURED IT OUT!" moment where Batman has a lightbulb go off in his head and all of a sudden he's figured out the entire mystery.

BATMAN FOREVER had this. Pretty clearly. There was an entire scene devoted to it.

[peteagassi]

does anyone have the prologue saved? Because they took it off youtube. I need to see it. Thanks, anybody!

[Paste Pot Pete]

BATMAN FOREVER had this. Pretty clearly. There was an entire scene devoted to it.

He really is quite bright despite what people say.

[GregComicFan]

Yes, Batman Forever had an "AHA!" moment, where Bruce/Alfred put together the Riddler's puzzles, found what they had in common, and discovered...

the Riddler was Edward Nygma!

WOW!

Totally Anti-Climatic!!!! First, this is information the audience already knew!!

Second, the Riddler's outfit barely disguised him. How could Bruce NOT already know the Riddler was Edward Nygma???????

and that's why the "AHA!" moment in Batman Forever sucks.

Greg

[The Guard]

Yes, Batman Forever had an "AHA!" moment, where Bruce/Alfred put together the Riddler's puzzles, found what they had in common, and discovered...

the Riddler was Edward Nygma!

WOW!

I never said it was brilliant. I said it was an "Aha" moment.

Totally Anti-Climatic!!!! First, this is information the audience already knew!

And...

Second, the Riddler's outfit barely disguised him. How could Bruce NOT already know the Riddler was Edward Nygma???????

and that's why the "AHA!" moment in Batman Forever sucks.

It's a movie. Bruce knowing Nygma is The Riddler throughout kind of defeats the purpose of figuring out who The Riddler is. The actual mechanics of the "riddle" invovled was at least as clever as the thrown-together "Ra's Al Ghul must be working with The Scarecrow with my stolen microwave emitter device" nonsense.

[thegameq]

These films are never going to make it a central focus; summer blockbuster = action film, not detective story.

That pretty much sums it up. Would be nice to see such a film though.

[Stotch]

That pretty much sums it up. Would be nice to see such a film though.

robin: Mmmmmmh, batman i'm getting a RAGING clue right now...

batman: Really? So do I!... Mine's pointing that way!

robin: Let's go follow it, then!

[wootbaby]

But I do think Batman Begins did a better job...

-we saw Batman running surveillance.
-we saw Batman sneak into Crane's apartment to snoop around
-Batman pretty much figured out Scarecrow was poisoning the water system in order to expose all of Gotham to the fear toxin
-Batman interrogated people, using fear

BB did a better job than any other batman movie or TV series showing Batman's detective work. In addition to direct references to early undercover work in Batman: Year One (Matches Malone etc) it showed him building a model of the crime network in gotham, using advanced technology for surveillance, and piecing together the root of the toxin. the movie spent TWENTY MINUTES showing batman as a methodical, logical and suspicious detective who wouldn't even TALK to Gordon until he had stalked him and investigated him 100%. and people dont get it?

what you have to realize is that moviegoers are stupid. Stupid as hell. They dont care about subtle and thematic portrayals. You can show batman doing all the detective work in the world but in the end all they know are 2 things: 1) the BATCOMPUTER 2) an AH HA moment.

basically all these criticisms boil down to the fact that noobs expect a scene where batman feeds random crap into the batcomputer and it spits out the solution (SEE??? batman is SMART! he uses a computer. batman is a SCIENTIST).

second they want a big AH HA moment where the camera is all dramatic and batman sits there brooding then... TA DA THIS GUY IS THE BADGUY and he calls Gordon and everyone is like wow batman is the man!

it's something that CSI hasn't helped... people have no idea how science actually works and they think it's about spewing technobabble all day then AH HA SOLUTION. Take it from a guy who's working on a masters in biochem and has spent more hours than I care to remember working as a slave in a lab doing tritrations and ****. Science is about grunt work... it's sitting in a lab dropping little drops of A into B and looking at a spreadsheet months after the fact to see what % C moved. it's far from sexy.

and REAL DETECTIVE WORK, even in 2007 is primarily interviewing dudes, tailing dudes, and things like getting people's phone records and credit card bills.

BUT MAYBE IN THE DARK KNIGHT WE'LL SEE A BATCOMPUTER AKA REAL DETECTIVE WORK

[The Guard]

Agreed. I think most people just want to see him at a murder scene.

[Hole Shot]

Suprised the SHH set report didn't wake this thread up. I know the article is being talked about in another thread, but I think it makes this discussion interesting again.


http://www.superherohype.com/news/featuresnews.php?id=7347
Batman walks into the vault. Detective Ramirez turns around, surprised. She looks at Gordon then says to the other cops, "Can we get a minute people, please?" She then leaves along with the other cops. Gordon says something and Batman replies, "Him again? Where are the others?"

Gordon: "Just another bunch of small timers."

Batman walks up to a cart with some cash on it. He pulls a small device from his belt and it pops open. It has a blue light and a radiation symbol. Batman waves it over the cash, "Some of the marked bills I gave you." Batman takes the cash bundle and throws it to Gordon who catches it. Gordon replies, "We found the bulk of the dirty cash. My detectives have been making drug buys with it for weeks. This bank was another drop for the mob. This makes five."

Batman: "Time to move in."
Gordon: "We would have to hit all banks simultaneously. SWAT teams, backup…"
Batman says something, and Gordon asks, "What about this Joker guy?"
Batman: "One man or the entire mob? He can wait."
Gordon: "When the new DA gets wind of this, he'll want in."
Batman: "Do you trust him?"
Gordon: "It will be hard to keep him out. He's as stubborn as you."

Gordon looks up from putting evidence in an envelope and sees Batman has disappeared again. He shakes his head and the scene ends.

[TNC9852002]

I like how Nolan addresses Batman's pushed back detective skills in Begins and also made it clear that it's focused on a lot more in TDK.

-TNC

[The Guard]

We'll see.

[Cancer4TheCure]

I think he will....if you look at the set visit uploaded on SHH! then you'll see that Batman has a more active involvement in the enforcement, and also seems to be getting smarter.

[BEEEsH]

I think batman will try to uncover joker's identity and fail.

*captain obvious to the rescue*

[BatmanFanatic]

I think batman will try to uncover joker's identity and fail.

*captain obvious to the rescue*

Wow that would be something. Joker getting the upper hand till the very end?

[DarkReflections]

thats probably whats going to happen imo. just cause it would be a great twist.

[BatmanFanatic]

thats probably whats going to happen imo. just cause it would be a great twist.

I can picture it now...

Batman spends 1/2 the film trying to follow every shallow lead to figure out where this guy came from, and in the end ... nothing. He's a ghost. A mystery. A pure monster....

I like it :woot:

[Naite22]

It's funny that a thread was made about this so long ago... and also shown in pics and other stuff that Mr. Wayne will indeed get a lot more into the whole detective thing:)

Can't wait for this movie!!! There's no comparrison!

[Jokers_Wild]

I have faith that more of his detective skills will be shown for the simple fact that he is working so much more with Gordon and Dent in this. The SHH set visit to the bank vault was really giving the vibe that we'll see a lot more of his detective skills at work.

[Nightwing1977]

I think batman will try to uncover joker's identity and fail.

*captain obvious to the rescue*

:funny: :funny:

[kyuubijavi1]

Well in the shh visit it says batman hooked up gordan with marked bills to catch the mob in there dirty work then im fairly certain something was said about him doing some D-work at hong kong then im sure its going to be some big cat chassing mouse with Bat's and Joker so yes there will be detective work in this movie

[The Batman]

BB did a better job than any other batman movie or TV series showing Batman's detective work.

AHEM...Adam West would like to have a word with you...the TV show shows, to insane degree, how Bats could take a lame clue and figure out where the villains would strike next

[Seen]

I think the bank vault sequence is a good indication that we're going to see some good detective work from Batman in this film.

However...I have no idea how Nolan's going to make it look. Batman just standing there in a vault amidst cops? That and Batman standing and walking around in a brightly-lit room is a bit questionable in my opinion, but we'll see.

[gwynplaine]

I hope there is a scene in TDK where Batman is sitting in front of video monitors with the Joker face on them, pondering who this creepy clown really is.

[Nepenthes]

yeah it looks like Nolan has completely ditched the "only works in the dark" idea. Which is surprising but what the hell, lets see how it plays. Maybe it's a deliberate move to present Batman as more of a public figure or defacto cop and not so much of a bogeyman anymore.

[Seen]

yeah it looks like Nolan has completely ditched the "only works in the dark" idea. Which is surprising but what the hell, lets see how it plays. Maybe it's a deliberate move to present Batman as more of a public figure or defacto cop and not so much of a bogeyman anymore.

I don't know about you, but I absolutely LOATHE that idea.

[gwynplaine]

^^^I don't. I think it's a very original approach to the character and can't wait to see how Nolan and Pfister pull it off.

[Nepenthes]

I don't know about you, but I absolutely LOATHE that idea.

I don't prefer it either. but considering how Batman's been presented in the GCN clips and the vault scene (working alongside Gordon in full view of other cops) it seems that's the route they've taken for him. So I'll prepare myself for being open to enjoy it. It's not like it's an invalid take either, in fact it's the most long-established version of Batman as opposed to the mythical bogeyman so we can't totally discredit it. I want to enjoy this movie even if there's a hundred things I would have done differently.

[the_tortel]

I don't prefer it either. but considering how Batman's been presented in the GCN clips and the vault scene (working alongside Gordon in full view of other cops) it seems that's the route they've taken for him. So I'll prepare myself for being open to enjoy it. It's not like it's an invalid take either, in fact it's the most long-established version of Batman as opposed to the mythical bogeyman so we can't totally discredit it. I want to enjoy this movie even if there's a hundred things I would have done differently.

that deserves a giant AMEN right there

[LastSunrise1981]

In my opinion for as flawed as the film is, I do believe Batman Forever had a healthy display of Batman's detective skills. I really enjoyed the scenes with him figuring out Riddler's puzzles and of course him coming to the conclusion that Nygma was the Riddler.

As for The Dark Knight? It was already confirmed by Nolan and Bale that this film will showcase his detective skills as well. We already got a taste of it in Batman Begins when he was listening in on Crane's conversation with Rachel, him showing evidence of corrupt officials to Rachel, investigating the abandoned apartment complex with the drugs in the bears, and doing research on Gordon when he came back from his training.

[DrFrommeyer]

I hope there is a scene in TDK where Batman is sitting in front of video monitors with the Joker face on them, pondering who this creepy clown really is.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k47/jiminyale/Picture4-5.png

[Aidan2209]

I don't know about you, but I absolutely LOATHE that idea.

"I never lie" -- Superman, Superman: The Movie


Lois: "Hey, Clark, who's Superman?"

Clark: [shrugs]"Ah-u-ogh."


Off topic, but I had to do that.

[Conebone69]

yeah it looks like Nolan has completely ditched the "only works in the dark" idea. Which is surprising but what the hell, lets see how it plays. Maybe it's a deliberate move to present Batman as more of a public figure or defacto cop and not so much of a bogeyman anymore.
I like batman being the "bogeyman." Wait I dont remember the SHH report saying that batman walks in the bank in broad daylight

[Nepenthes]

I like batman being the "bogeyman."

Me too. Most of the time, but not all the time. If it works in this movie then that can only be a good thing. And I don't see how the plots with Dent, Joker or Engel could work if Batman wasn't acknowledged as a high-profile figure in Gotham City. Basically the whole movie hinges on it. It even breaks severely from comics canon by showing a clear picture of him in the newspaper where as up until very recently Batman in the comics (post IC) would never let himself be photographed.

Not sure if the bank scene is in broad daylight it's definitely going to be brightly lit inside. Batman walks into the vault and the female cops says to the other cops "can we get some privacy please" and they all walk out. that's what I'm talking about, you read that right?

[terry78]

The comics and the animated series basically forced Bats to be in the dark because everything just "happened" to take place at night. If this is a more realistic approach, if Joker does some **** in the morning, I would hope Bats would be there, you know?

[S.D. Plissken]

I can picture it now...

Batman spends 1/2 the film trying to follow every shallow lead to figure out where this guy came from, and in the end ... nothing. He's a ghost. A mystery. A pure monster....

I like it :woot:

This sounds like an awesome idea. I hope it's in the film.

[TruerToTheCore]

^^^I don't. I think it's a very original approach to the character and can't wait to see how Nolan and Pfister pull it off.

that's not avery original approach that's exactly how the character was portrayed for the most time of his fictional existence.

[TruerToTheCore]

The comics and the animated series basically forced Bats to be in the dark because everything just "happened" to take place at night. If this is a more realistic approach, if Joker does some **** in the morning, I would hope Bats would be there, you know?

yeah that is one of the problems with "Batman only works at night". Gotham City would probably overrun by crime during the day if the criminals knew that.

[TruerToTheCore]

"I never lie" -- Superman, Superman: The Movie


Lois: "Hey, Clark, who's Superman?"

Clark: [shrugs]"Ah-u-ogh."


Off topic, but I had to do that.

But Superman IS Superman. Clark Kent is the disguise. Case closed :woot:

[carnage17]

yeah that is one of the problems with "Batman only works at night". Gotham City would probably overrun by crime during the day if the criminals knew that.

he would probably work during the day, crime tends to be worst at night, causing him to be much more needed at night!