The Death of Gwen Stacy

[Cassandra]

I really only know Spider-Man through the Rami films but I'm starting to get into the comics. I recently read the infamous Death of Gwen Stacy issue and I was really blown away by how powerful it was. I usually find a lot of comic book deaths overhyped and not all that amazing in the end, but Gwen's was really iconic. I actually got a lump in my throat when Peter was holding her body and was saying "you can't be dead, I don't want you to be dead".

To those of you who have also read this issue, what were your initial reactions right after you first read Gwen's death scene? Do you, like me, think it's one of the best comic book death's ever or would you argue that you've seen better?

Please discuss. :)

[Green Goblin 1964]

I really only know Spider-Man through the Rami films but I'm starting to get into the comics. I recently read the infamous Death of Gwen Stacy issue and I was really blown away by how powerful it was. I usually find a lot of comic book deaths overhyped and not all that amazing in the end, but Gwen's was really iconic. I actually got a lump in my throat when Peter was holding her body and was saying "you can't be dead, I don't want you to be dead".

To those of you who have also read this issue, what were your initial reactions right after you first read Gwen's death scene? Do you, like me, think it's one of the best comic book death's ever or would you argue that you've seen better?

Please discuss. :)That's like 99.5% of all Spidey fans including me and not including Marilyn Manson:o(the Poster)


JK


But yeah it was incredible and is in your mind when you are born just because it's so wonderful and iconic.

[Uber Venom]

I really only know Spider-Man through the Rami films but I'm starting to get into the comics. I recently read the infamous Death of Gwen Stacy issue and I was really blown away by how powerful it was. I usually find a lot of comic book deaths overhyped and not all that amazing in the end, but Gwen's was really iconic. I actually got a lump in my throat when Peter was holding her body and was saying "you can't be dead, I don't want you to be dead".

To those of you who have also read this issue, what were your initial reactions right after you first read Gwen's death scene? Do you, like me, think it's one of the best comic book death's ever or would you argue that you've seen better?

Please discuss. :)

It really was tragic. Peter's a great guy, he finds a girl he truly loves, and she dies in front of him. Not to mention he wasn't sure if he did it, the webline possibly snapping her neck.

[farmernudie]

I read it when it actually happened...and i was shocked...it was tragic, maddening, unbelievable....touching.....horrilbe yet poetic....but much more respectful compared to all the big overly advertised (non-permament) "deaths" we get these days.

It basically ran the whole gambit of emotions, practically like a real death in real life.

[Web-Head]

Best Spidey story ever...

this is so emotional, almost make's me wan't to cry every time i read it.

[Ray-Fu]

I still get something in my eye when I read this story :(

If you liked this story Cassandra, try to hunt down the Death of Captain Stacy too. That's another really well done story.

Hmm...I wonder why I'm recommending another story with a death in it...and another Stacy too :(:(

[sm00nie]

That was by far the worst bomb to ever drop on Peter's life and I felt it on the Canadian side of the border.

All I can say is to keep reading, your mind will explode.. literally!

[Spider-ManHero12]

The Issue with Gwen dieing was amazing and unforgetable!! I was blown away by it. Peter lost the Woman He loved and He was screaming at the Goblin, "YOU KILLED THE WOMAN I LOVED!" I wil never, ever, ever, ever, ever, etc. forget that Issue. I also think it's thew best Comic Book death ever. This death affected Peter for years to come. in Spectacular Spider-man Issue #200, Harry was the Green Goblin and He took MJ to the bridge where MJ died. Spidey ws in the exact same spot that Gwen died at, and there were references to when Gwen died in Spectacular Spider-man Issue #200. I was shocked when I read it. I felt over-whelmed by it. It's a very sad and tragic thing that happened to Spidey in His life. One of the moments in the Issue when I felt sad was when Spidey thought He saved Her but really the shock of the fall killed Her. Very strong and emotoinal.

[Captivated]

I too came to the comics via the films (SM2 to be exact) and I didn't know much about Gwen... But I started at the very beginning (Essentials) and so by the time I got to ASM 121/122 I was really attached to Gwen and Peter... as attached as I could be with the knowlege in the back of my head that she was going to die... I'm sure that made my experience with the story slightly different than those who were blind-sided by it.

It was tragic... and the stories afterwards seemed tainted and hollow for awhile... kinda like life after someone close to you dies. I have no doubt that if I were reading it back then, as it happened, I would have been quite FURIOUS at the loss of the character and they would have totally lost me. And without perspective, I'm not sure when and if I would have come back.

But as it is, I did know it was coming and it was sad and it made me heartsick, but I knew what ELSE was coming and I couldn't wait to catch up to his life with MJ. Of course, his fling with the Black Cat was an unexpected and entertaining diversion... but again, because I knew how it ended.

[Captivated]

So... anybody here want a repeat? :(

Let's have a show of hands... :down

Who wants to see Peter lose EVERY woman he will ever love... over and over again... because the editors say he MUST remain single? :down

Who wants to see Peter have a major character shift and become a "player" because the writers think that is easier to write. :down

Who wants to see Peter get bitter and give up on love, finally devoting ALL his time to fighting "baddies?" *yawn* :down

Oooo, won't THAT be exciting. :rolleyes:

NOT. :mad:

[Dangerous]

I think while it might still be somewhat moving to read for newbies, having ASM #121-122 as your introduction to Spidey comics is dumb. I guess (as a casual fan) you get to hear that those issues are really great, but unless you have read the series from #1, then effectively it's just some random chick getting pushed off a bridge and dieing. The gravity and significance of the events are essentially nullified.

To the original poster I would say go read the reprints from #32 onwards, that was when Peter first met Gwen at ESU.

[SpideyZERO]

I heard about this, and how Gwen's dead affect Spidey

But I haven't read this story yet :D

[shogunrua]

I started to read Spidey's comics from issue 1 some time ago, and I did it until issue 72 because I have to say that 60's-70's campy and corny attitude was starting to get on my nerves lol (sorry for the fans of this era, it just the way I feel about it): -the usual Aunt May stuff: always at hospital, never dying and the "you know how fragile you are Peter" line. and that way for the villains and Spidey to always say what they're doing "Wow I could block your punch with my webs, etc..."

But I really wanted to read that particular issue and damn....that was different. I know I don't take Spidey's life as seriously as some of you, but I found that issue very powerfull, where Spidey's REALLY REALLY angry (not like those 2-3 issues when he tried to pretend to be a bad guy), and by the way, it's the issue where Green Goblin climbed from the super-crook trying to be a Kingpin like to Spidey's arch-enemy. I didn't read the whole Spidey's comics by far, but it's safe to say that no other villain has damaged SPidey's life as GG in that particular moment.

Perfect issue

[Dragon]

I heard about this, and how Gwen's dead affect Spidey

But I haven't read this story yet :D


For anyone looking to read this and pretty much anything else Spidey check Donald Thomas' fantastic site.

http://www.donaldspidermanthomas.com/html/

ASM #121-122 should be required reading for any comic writer. Place a character in a situation and let them write themselves. This as opposed to the awkward contrivances of Civil War and the like.

As much as I think killing Gwen was a mistake, there's no denying this story is a masterpiece. Not only in writing, but Kane & Romita's artwork captures every action and emotion perfectly.

And I think one of the reasons this story is so powerful is that it wasn't conceived as an event. It was just a story told well. If this were being done today, it would be 12 issues long and so drawn out as to bleed everything great about the story.

[Cassandra]

I think while it might still be somewhat moving to read for newbies, having ASM #121-122 as your introduction to Spidey comics is dumb.

I disagree. Although I only knew of Gwen due to Spider-Man 3 (I'd not heard of her before then), I was very curious about the character and after researching her online, I just had to read the comic that had obviously caused so much controversy. Even though I didn't have the build-up that other fans might have, I still found issue 121 extremely powerful and Gwen's death scene still came as a gut punch to me even though I knew it was going to happen. The writing and artwork were just beautiful; it was so effective unlike a lot of fictional deaths, which are usually too sensationalised for me to be moved by them much.

Having said that, though, I am going back further and checking out older issues. I've already read the first two and I'm enjoying it. I'm sure I'll read many more, in correct order, over time.

[Dangerous]

I disagree. Although I only knew of Gwen due to Spider-Man 3 (I'd not heard of her before then), I was very curious about the character and after researching her online, I just had to read the comic that had obviously caused so much controversy. Even though I didn't have the build-up that other fans might have, I still found issue 121 extremely powerful and Gwen's death scene still came as a gut punch to me even though I knew it was going to happen. The writing and artwork were just beautiful; it was so effective unlike a lot of fictional deaths, which are usually too sensationalised for me to be moved by them much.

Having said that, though, I am going back further and checking out older issues. I've already read the first two and I'm enjoying it. I'm sure I'll read many more, in correct order, over time.


You may have read about Gwen online or whatever, but it’s not the same as reading the actual comics and seeing how Peter and Gwen’s relationship evolved over the years through all the ups and downs.

Just reading #121-122 without the issues that preceded, you don’t get to see what type of person Gwen was or how her character changed toward PP, so it’s basically just like reading a story w/ some random person dieing, just that they have a name you recognise.

[Captivated]

I have to agree... it's not the same to just pick it up without having read through the preceding stories.

But Cassandra, now that your interest in the comics is piqued, start reading the Essentials (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/103-3347509-5567820?initialSearch=1&url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=spider-man+essentials&Go.x=0&Go.y=0&Go=Go). They are cheap black and white reprints of the original comics. You can also find old issues on CD (http://www.amazon.com/Years-Amazing-Spider-Man-Win-Mac/dp/B0006Q7FEM), but for me it is much more enjoyable to read a book than a computer screen, even if it's not in color. (But I have done both to read as many as I could).

And believe me, it's worth it to slog through some of the outdated language, and tedious battle scenes, because you never know when some gem will be dropped in that will give you great insight to the character.

I am SO glad I started from the beginning as well as reading more current stuff. You should really also read current writer, J. Michael Straczynsk's run (well most of it anyway) on Amazing Spider-Man (ASM) to be up-to-date. Start with Volumn 1: Coming Home. (http://www.amazon.ca/Amazing-Spider-Man-Coming-Home-TPB/dp/0785108068/ref=sr_1_6/702-5741194-8052044?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1184949271&sr=1-6) and keep going. Peter and MJ are initially separated in Vol. 1, but that eventually changes and it's very good. I think AMS goes through Volumn 11, but you can skip Vol. 8 (a terrible story that trashes Gwen) and not miss it.

BTW - I know that sounds like a lot, but once I got into it, I couldn't wait to have a free moment to continue reading about the life of Spidey. :cwink: It is like a "soap" with good (mostly) art. And, Amazon sellers sell all this used for pretty cheap.

[farmernudie]

Dragon: And I think one of the reasons this story is so powerful is that it wasn't conceived as an event. It was just a story told well. If this were being done today, it would be 12 issues long and so drawn out as to bleed everything great about the story.



A very sad, but true point.

Nowa days, they'd make it a part of an arc, you'd know she would be dying, and they'd slowly build up to it (the actual death) after 8 or 12 issues of the special named death "Event".

[doc ock rules!]

Very well written. :up:

Everything that happened seemed so realistic, human. Nowadays, most deaths that I've seen in comics are NOWHERE NEAR this realism in my opinion. But I digress. Her death and the events surrounding it make me feel sympathetic for Pete and that, in my mind, constitues good writing.

[Flint Marko]

Hands down one of the most daring and iconic comic stories ever written.
They just don't write stories like that anymore....:dry:

[Dangerous]

Cassandra-
The problem with the Essentials is that they are b&w and so don't do the original comics justice.
On the other hand the Marvel Masterworks are comparatively expensive but you can find nice prices if you look around. I believe Barnes and Nobles do good deals on them. The Masterworks volumes feature roughly 9 sequential original issues of Amazing Spider-man reprinted in full colour. As apposed to the Essentials which house 20 + issues per volume only in crappy b&w. I would recommend picking up the MM from Vol 4 onwards as that is where Gwen debuts, this way you would be able to follow her story.

Aside from this, if you just want to read really good Spider-Man stuff, you would do well to pick up the recent TPB- Visionaries Roger Stern Vol 1. Stern was the Amazing Spider-Man writer in the early eighties, and after Stan Lee was one of the greatest.

Generally speaking the first 300 issues of Amazing were the best. Personally I would not bother with reprinted stuff from the current writer- JMS. He has been the writer since 2000 and he is soon to leave. His run has been either boring and direction less, or just completely missing the point.
If you buy some stuff and have any questions just ask here and someone will fill you in.

Masterworks: Amazing Spider-Man, Vol. 4
Masterworks: Amazing Spider-Man, Vol. 5
Masterworks: Amazing Spider-Man, Vol. 6
Masterworks: Amazing Spider-Man, Vol. 7

Visionaries - Roger Stern, Vol. 1

[Captivated]

Cassandra-
The problem with the Essentials is that they are b&w and so don't do the original comics justice. It's not like reading them in their orignal "glory"... but it's not like the color of those early issues was anything to write home about either. Good art looks good inked too. The Essentials have reproduced MANY more issues than the Masterworks, which are ridiculously expensive for someone just getting into the comics. A good story is a good story, even in black and white. I enjoyed them.

On the other hand the Marvel Masterworks are comparatively expensive but you can find nice prices if you look around. I believe Barnes and Nobles do good deals on them. The Masterworks volumes feature roughly 9 sequential original issues of Amazing Spider-man reprinted in full colour. As apposed to the Essentials which house 20 + issues per volume only in crappy b&w. I would recommend picking up the MM from Vol 4 onwards as that is where Gwen debuts, this way you would be able to follow her story.Crappy b&w? Geesh... snobby much? I started getting the Masterworks and stopped because they didn't release them fast enough, and they were too little for too much.

Personally I would not bother with reprinted stuff from the current writer- JMS. He has been the writer since 2000 and he is soon to leave. His run has been either boring and direction less, or just completely missing the point. That is WAY too general and untrue. I would avoid "Sins Past" and "the Other" but speaking as a girl, JMS wrote some great Peter/MJ/May stuff and if you like the relationships, you will enjoy it. Check out the "Favorite Peter/MJ moments" tread if you want examples. ;)

[webhead731]

I've also read that issue. It is a great one. That's one reason why Green Goblin is my favorite Spidey villain.

[Clentes]

That issue is very emotional. Spidey beating the crap out of GG after Gwen's death was one of the most satisfying moments I had ever read. XD

[Spider-ManHero12]

You may have read about Gwen online or whatever, but it’s not the same as reading the actual comics and seeing how Peter and Gwen’s relationship evolved over the years through all the ups and downs.

Just reading #121-122 without the issues that preceded, you don’t get to see what type of person Gwen was or how her character changed toward PP, so it’s basically just like reading a story w/ some random person dieing, just that they have a name you recognise. Agreed. Peter loved Gwen so much!. When Gwen moved in with Her uncle and aunt in London, Peter when't to London to find Her. Thats how much He loved Her! It was great seeing Peter adore Gwen, and Gwen adore Peter. I loved every moment that had to do with Gwen and Peter!:up:

[Traveller]

Personally I would not bother with reprinted stuff from the current writer- JMS. He has been the writer since 2000 and he is soon to leave. His run has been either boring and direction less, or just completely missing the point.
I agree with you all the way. Cassandra, when you read the classic Stan Lee's stories you have to avoid those crap that JMS write today. It's enough if you read from the Amazing #39 (Lee-Romita era) and you will like Gwen a lot. If I say the Lee-Romita stories are 10 point, JMS about minus 40. Like heaven and hell. Almost everybody better than JMS until now.

I read Gwen Stacy' death when I was about 18. It was the most touching stories that I ever read. I loved this before I could read, I loved it when I just can see the pictures (because I had it in Swedish at first).

[Dangerous]

It's not like reading them in their orignal "glory"... but it's not like the color of those early issues was anything to write home about either. Good art looks good inked too. The Essentials have reproduced MANY more issues than the Masterworks, which are ridiculously expensive for someone just getting into the comics. A good story is a good story, even in black and white. I enjoyed them.

I read and enjoyed the first 4 volumes of the Essentials also, but like I said the Essentials really don’t do the original comics justice. I’m sorry that you think the colours in the early days were not ‘anything to write home about’, but I thought they were done very well, and in fully restored reprints such as the recent Omnibus this is evident.

Furthermore- for someone just getting into comics- the Essentials don’t exactly grab the reader and yell -Excitement!- Heck, I sometimes found the idea of picking up the chunky b&w Spidey volumes a little bit of a downer. Since the pages are not coloured, they are as good as 2D and this means you are missing a whole lot. It’s like the original issues only with their souls sucked dry.

Yeah comparatively the Masterworks cost more, but like I said cheap deals can be found. If Cassandra cannot find good deals on the MM’s she could always just pick up the recent Roger Stern TPB I suggested. The RS TPB features the start of a really cool jump on point for Spidey fans new and old. Any questions that new readers have can always be answered here.

Crappy b&w? Geesh... snobby much? I started getting the Masterworks and stopped because they didn't release them fast enough, and they were too little for too much.

I stopped because the b&w sucked the life from the pages, and I could not take it anymore.
If you have only read the old issues in b&w format you have essentially not read em at all.

That is WAY too general and untrue. I would avoid "Sins Past" and "the Other" but speaking as a girl, JMS wrote some great Peter/MJ/May stuff and if you like the relationships, you will enjoy it. Check out the "Favorite Peter/MJ moments" tread if you want examples. ;)

Sins Past & The Other = completely missing the point. The rest of his run = boring and directionless.
Nah, I reckon my first assessment was pretty accurate. :cwink:

He wrote Aunt May and MJ well, that Il give you, but that alone sure don’t make a great or even good run on Spider-Man.

[Norman Osborn]

...I was either 8 or 9 when I first read ASM 121, at the actual time it was released......I remember being stunned.....I remember adoring Gwen (wanting to grow up and marry her iirc :)..).... and thinking MJ was an airhead...30 + years later ASM 121 - 122 is still my all-time favorite Spidey story!!

[Norman Osborn]

Sins Past & The Other = completely missing the point. The rest of his run = boring and directionless.
Nah, I reckon my first assessment was pretty accurate. :cwink:

He wrote Aunt May and MJ well, that Il give you, but that alone sure don’t make a great or even good run on Spider-Man.

Personally I thought the "Hydra" arc was gold....I thought the initial Morlun arc was good....but I'm hard pressed to find anything else during JMS's run that warranted anything better than a mediocre....Digger was a ridiculous character, Skin Deep had ridiculous characterization....as much as I'm not a huge fan of it....JMS's post unmasking stuff may be some of his best stuff....

.....but to parrot other's sentiments, JMS did write Aunt May and Mary Jane well......he just didn't write anyone else particularly well

[J. J. Jameson]

I really only know Spider-Man through the Rami films but I'm starting to get into the comics. I recently read the infamous Death of Gwen Stacy issue and I was really blown away by how powerful it was. I usually find a lot of comic book deaths overhyped and not all that amazing in the end, but Gwen's was really iconic. I actually got a lump in my throat when Peter was holding her body and was saying "you can't be dead, I don't want you to be dead".

To those of you who have also read this issue, what were your initial reactions right after you first read Gwen's death scene? Do you, like me, think it's one of the best comic book death's ever or would you argue that you've seen better?

Please discuss. :)

Well...as some posters may know, I'm a big fan of Gwen's (one of the reasons I like S-M Loves MJ...it has Gwen). I love the Night Gwen Stacy Died (even though I hate that lovely Gwen dies.)

This story is powerful beyond words. More so than almost any other comic I have ever read. It's perhaps one of the few stories that actually make my eyes get a little moist every time I read it. It captures all the feelings associated with loss: despair, unbelief, anger, rage, revenge. It's a masterpiece and one of the greatest stories about one of the greatest girls in comics.

[Traveller]

He wrote Aunt May and MJ well
Maybe. Maybe not. When Aunt May knew Peter's secret it was a piece of cake to write Aunt May well. It could be much better. Paul Jenkins wrote Aunt May just once (in the Spider-Man #50) and that was brilliant. Much better than JMS's every try.

[ragingdemon155]

The Tpb "The Death of Gwen Stacy" is a great read. Easily one of my favorites ever for Spider-man. I wasn't even around when the story was first published so it doesn't affect me as much as it would have fans that actually read when it hit the stands. It's still a very emotional story and while it isn't my number "one" story of all time...I don't think anyone can deny that it's probably the most important storyline.

I mean jeez, the guy still mentions "I miss Gwen" or "This is the bridge where she died" every other issue...

[Redwoods Wolf]

I like it because it's never fully decided who killed her. Sure, there's the snap, but Gobby himself argues it's the fall that kills you. :up:

[Dangerous]

Maybe. Maybe not. When Aunt May knew Peter's secret it was a piece of cake to write Aunt May well. It could be much better. Paul Jenkins wrote Aunt May just once (in the Spider-Man #50) and that was brilliant. Much better than JMS's every try.

Yeah but Paul Jenkins Spider-Man craps on JMS' version in every way.

[spiderfan970]

I actually really enjoy reading JMS' Spider-Man. Yeah, I hated Sins Past, but I feel like the reason he did it was to shut every other writer up about her, which in that sense has worked.

But when JR jr. was teamed up with him I loved reading those stories. Like people have said before, his characterization, to me, is spot on. I loved reading what Peter was saying and that he was actually as funny as he should be for once.

I loved his characterization of Aunt May and Mary Jane as well. Even though I wasn't too partial with the totem stuff, I didn't mind it that much at all. There was so much stuff happening at once to Peter that I was interested. I actually wouldn't mind him staying on after all this event crap is over so that he could tell arcs like he used to, hopefully even utilizing the supporting cast that Peter David has built back up for Peter...(Flash, Betty, Bugle? Deb, etc.)
I guess I'm in the minority in that aspect...

Anyway, yes, I've read The Night Gwen Stacy Died. I finally got to read it like a year ago? And that's all thanks to Donald Thomas making his online Spider-Man comics library. After I saw it I wanted to make a movie of it like Dan Poole, but ten times better.

http://www.alphadogproductions.net/greengoblin.html

[reallyoldspideyfan]

Hello,

I think we've has this discussion many times over the years but I really enjoy reading what new and old readers think of Gwen.

For me, I grew up reading Spider-man and, practically issue for issue, grew up with Peter. We, as readers, fell in love with Gwen. She was everything a young man would want: smart, funny, thoughtful, beautiful. As we were growing up, getting into relationships, so was Peter.

To read issue #121 was a kick in the gut. Being in my 30s now, I still remember where I was and how I felt reading the last page, closing the book, opening back up to see if I read it wrong...later on, I wondered if it was ok to feel such feelings over a comic. The answer was yes. We care about these characters, whether they are in a movie, TV show or a comic. We, as fans, care about Peter and Gwen. The writing was great afterwards as well because it felt like all of us were grieving with Peter and we followed him through it. I will never forget SPM holding Gwen in issue #122, shaking her saying you cannot be dead. Great moment.

It was a great issue(s) and that is why a lot of new fans do not understand why I got so excited to see Gwen Stacy in SP3. To see her on screen, complete with the hair thing, was something special.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts,

DN

[Traveller]

Yeah but Paul Jenkins Spider-Man craps on JMS' version in every way.
It's kind of an off topic here, but it isn't true. Jenkins wrote great stories just he was told that write that he want but nothing that cross JMS's Amazing. So Jenkins had to write a kind of "Tangled Web". But every time when he wrote something bold, he'd written a brilliant story. Spider-Man #20, 26 and 50.
Anyway Spider-Man #26 not so off topic here, because it contains the Amazing #121 as a police officer saw it.

[Dangerous]

What do you mean?

Paul Jenkins stints on Peter Parker: Spider-Man and then Spectacular Vol 2 by far out shone JMS on ASM. Jenkins Spider-man was funny and exciting, the villains were well written as was the supporting cast and this all meshed together. JMS never wrote anything as good as A Death in the Family, or as exciting as Countdown.

[TwilightPro101]

One of the most tragic moments in Spider-man history. A victory and a defeat all in one day. Still blows my mind to see that happen, but it's one of the most well defined storylines in Spider-man history.

[Dragon]

Another great thing about this storyline is that it's a great Spider-Man story. There are those arcs like Kraven's Last Hunt that while one may say its a great story ( although i'm not really one) it's definitely not a Spider-Man story. it doesn't suceed in capturing the unique approach that Stan took it creating Spider-Man. Whereas this story fits perfectly with all of Stan's work, albeit killing the woman he wanted Peter to end up with.

[Dangerous]

delete.

[Dangerous]

Why do you say KLH is not a Spider-Man story?

I know it's told in a different way to Lee's narrative style, but so was The Child Within.
Does that mean J M DeMatteis stuff is also not Spider-man?

I think it’s just different interpretations of the character, in the same way artists interpret the character’s appearance differently. In KLH Peter Parker is still a good guy, he’s still the same person.

[Traveller]

What do you mean?

Paul Jenkins stints on Peter Parker: Spider-Man and then Spectacular Vol 2 by far out shone JMS on ASM. Jenkins Spider-man was funny and exciting, the villains were well written as was the supporting cast and this all meshed together. JMS never wrote anything as good as A Death in the Family, or as exciting as Countdown.


I agree with you. Sorry, before I misunderstood something. :csad:

[KangConquers]

Why do you say KLH is not a Spider-Man story?

I know it's told in a different way to Lee's narrative style, but so was The Child Within.
Does that mean J M DeMatteis stuff is also not Spider-man?

I think it’s just different interpretations of the character, in the same way artists interpret the character’s appearance differently. In KLH Peter Parker is still a good guy, he’s still the same person.


Kraven's last hunt is amazing in that it takes a B-list character, and kills him off in such a way that we still talk about it 20 years later.

I'd hate to say it, but to me...Kraven's Last Hunt made Kraven. It was that damn good.

My second favorite arc, after the eponymous death of Gwen Stacy arc mentioned here.


hmmm...what do:

Amazing Fantasy #15
Amazing Spider-Man #120-121
and Kraven's last Hunt all have in common?

two things...they're all classics, and they all killed of characters MEANINGFULLY and permanently.

[Ray-Fu]

I apologize for taking this off topic a bit, but I think J.M DeMatteis' Spidey stories were all a bit too 'dark' for Spidey. Of course, this was in the era where grim and gritty was 'teh kewl.'

Even though they were dark (he also had some great light, humourous issues too), I think he did a great job in giving each of Spidey's villians a distinct voice and persona. I have never read a writer since who managed to delve into the psyche of the villians and made us feel or understand the villians motivations as he did.

They all have a place in Spidey lore one way or another :)

[Dragon]

Kraven's last hunt is amazing in that it takes a B-list character, and kills him off in such a way that we still talk about it 20 years later.

I'd hate to say it, but to me...Kraven's Last Hunt made Kraven. It was that damn good.

My second favorite arc, after the eponymous death of Gwen Stacy arc mentioned here.


hmmm...what do:

Amazing Fantasy #15
Amazing Spider-Man #120-121
and Kraven's last Hunt all have in common?

two things...they're all classics, and they all killed of characters MEANINGFULLY and permanently.


My responding to this is also directed to Dangerous' post.

To suggest that Kraven was a b-lister is untrue. His early appearances were certainly good. ASMs 15,34,47,49,103,104,11 and ASM annual #1 were all good stories, and Kraven was presented as being an effective and convincing villain. Yeah, his appearances just prior to KLH were lacking, but that's only two or three stories versus years of strong appearances.

Seoncdly, I would hardly call his death in KLH meaningful. in fact it was meaningless. Silly even. The story had a poor resolution. If Kraven had seen just WHY Spider-Man is superior to him, then perhaps his suicide might have made sense.

But the main problem I have with KLH is that it didn't convey the uniqueness of Spider-Man and his world. It was a generic superhero story, reflecting as Ray-Fu menationed above, the prevailing dark style of the period. Spider-Man and Kraven weren't themselves but merely pawns to the narrative, which is what we have to this day in stories like Sins Past and so forth. There's no denying the KLH was an interesting character study. But like I said, it wasn't a Spider-Man story.

And honestly, I feel like the only reason it's held up as a classic is that it's an example that comic fans can point to and feel some vindication. Comic fans are stygmatized for reading childish funny books. So stories like KLH which are dark and brooding with rambling prose can be pointed to and said "See? This isn't a kiddie comic". But that doesn't make it a classic IMO.