The Amazing Spider-Man

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, while I haven't heard anyone say anything positive (or, really, anything at all) about Spider-Man since OMD, I'm sure TMOB can't be the only one who thoroughly enjoys Spider-Man now. And if the sales are still higher than what they were before OMD, I think that still qualifies BND as a success. Bottom line: things are never going to go back to the way they used to be, and no matter how they justify this or that change, Spider-Man will always be a selfish brat who'd rather make a deal with the devil against his aunt's wishes than just move on with his life, and that's what's marring the character for me, not the fact that he's single or that there are unexplained things going on around him as a result of this ridiculous plot device they've used. Peter Parker is a fundamentally different human being now than the man I enjoyed reading about.

[kguillou]

Dude, your so right about the whole "spider-man is a punchline now". OMD completely changed the way you look at spiderman now. He used to be the #1 hero of the marvel universe, now he pretty much is a joke. I think Ironman has officially become the #1 marvel hero now, especially with the movie sky rocketing. So sad.

[TheCorpulent1]

Check your numbers again, dude. Wolverine's been the #1 hero at Marvel for years now.

[Themanofbat]

If that's the case, they might as well leave the explanation as Mesphito did it. Because short of another mind wipe, there's no way Peter could make Ironman, Black Cat, Dare Devil, Wolverine, Venom, Green Goblin, and others who knew him intimately forget who he is. What's the point of having another mind wipe replace another mind wipe as an explanation? Because the first one was magic? A bad idea? Out of character? At this point I laugh at Joe Q for saying DC has no idea what they're doing with Batman and Superman, and comparing them to porn stars. Marvel doesn't even know what to do with the Spider-man ideas they already didn't know to do with.

Mephisto was only responsible for erasing the marriage from existance... Peter did something with the aid of an as of yet unknown ally to make everybody forget.

[Themanofbat]

hmmmm, I guess brennan was lying then:

http://www.marvel.com/blogs/Spider-Office/

After keeping Marvel’s HR department on hold during the solid 30 seconds of deliberation (while balancing two giant packages in a leaky doorway in the midst of a rainstorm, no less), I accepted and returned home to an email from my new boss, Mr. Stephen G. Wacker, welcoming me to the team with an MP3 of the “Merry Marvel Marching Society” theme and, perhaps more daunting, Tom Brevoort’s now-publicized “Spider-Manifesto.” It brings me to my second “What Have I Learned This Year?” lesson: Be thankful for what you don’t know yet.

As I read over the document to help get myself up to speed on the work I’d been doing, a thought occurred to me: “I can never talk to my friends who read comic books again.” Remember, this was at the tail end of CIVIL WAR. Imagine if you’d have known months before anyone else did how "Back-In-Black" and "One More Day" ended and how "Brand New Day" began—I felt like I’d read a National Security report. But I remember wondering what many of you have wondered (sometimes in profanity laced e-mails)—how did Harry Osborn come back to life?

The answer wasn’t in the manifesto, and it wasn’t in any of the scripts I was handed to get myself up to speed. To be honest, the Braintrust wasn’t sure yet. But they did know they had to address it, they were simply going to wait until they had a story that made the most sense and that you guys deserved. That’s what made some of the early anger about "Brand New Day" so funny to me—most of the complaints were over story points we simply hadn’t revealed yet. But yeah, in some cases we weren’t sure. But that didn’t mean we weren’t working on it.

Change is tough, as I’ve learned in abundance this year. So for the segment of readership that still isn’t entirely on board with this new status quo, we hear you. We’ve had you in mind from the beginning, and we’re trying to make the kind of stories that will satisfy your curiosity. We’re simply taking the time and effort to get the stories right. Be thankful for what you don’t know, it makes discovering it all the more exciting.

--Brennan


But I'll tell you what if you can come up with any explanation that doesn't use a massive amount of magic and suspension of disbelief (and by that I mean an explaination that doesn't implore the reader to just not think too much about it, ala OMD) and doesn't retcon any more issues of Spider-Man than you already have (the marriage issue, the spectacular annual, every issue with the spider-baby/MJ being pregnant/the baby being mentioned) I will shut the hell up about the whole thing and start buying ASM again. Though I don't see how you will considering civil war, the BiB stuff and, well, just common sense.

I've bolded two points in your post that might be very relevant...

The guy states that Civil War was just coming to an end as he was reading the manifesto... and we all know that Civil War #7 came out in January of 2007... so in my opinion, that was probably still early enough for the guys to not have come up with an idea AT THAT TIME... that doesn't mean that the Braintrust dand/or Slott didn't come up with the mindwipe idea in April of 2007... well before BND began...

So to say that they didn't know how to deal with the answers when BND commenced is an incorrect statement... at least, if this is your "evidence" to prove that they didn't, then this evidence itself says otherwise.

Mike

:yay:

[moraldeficiency]

Mephisto was only responsible for erasing the marriage from existance... Peter did something with the aid of an as of yet unknown ally to make everybody forget.

didn't you read OMD? Cause that's not what happened. He straight up said, yeah I'll make everyone forget, don't worry about how (probably cause Joey Q had no ****ing idea). So whatever the story is, Pete didn't really do anything with anyone else (though I'm sure he thinks he did), mephisto made that happen. Pete became a puppet for the devil to do his works. Heroism at it's finest.



And yeah, corp you're right so far BND would be considered a success. But time will tell where this goes, and I see positive signs for just a retcon of everything BND (which I'd be totally cool with), Slott's already explained how either all previous BND after the marriage stories or all BND stories have to be fanfic. And really pete being an ass consistantly and getting schooled by a funrunner isn't much of something I'll miss being wiped out of existence.

[Themanofbat]

Well, while I haven't heard anyone say anything positive (or, really, anything at all) about Spider-Man since OMD, I'm sure TMOB can't be the only one who thoroughly enjoys Spider-Man now. And if the sales are still higher than what they were before OMD, I think that still qualifies BND as a success.

As far as 2008 goes, even without seeing December's numbers, it's the best year this decade as far as "total Spider-Man comics sold" (on-goings only)... I'm not at home, but I've got the numbers on an Excel sheet for every year since 2000.

[Themanofbat]

didn't you read OMD? Cause that's not what happened. He straight up said, yeah I'll make everyone forget, don't worry about how (probably cause Joey Q had no ****ing idea). So whatever the story is, Pete didn't really do anything with anyone else (though I'm sure he thinks he did), mephisto made that happen. Pete became a puppet for the devil to do his works. Heroism at it's finest.

While I won't disagree with you that it was mentioned in OMD, the reality will probably be that Mephisto set it up so that Peter (along with said ally) made it all happen...

But Mephisto did not "do it" personally... in my opinion.

:yay:

[WolfCypher]

I know that New Ways to Die alone accelerated the sells for ASM.

[Themanofbat]

Dude, your so right about the whole "spider-man is a punchline now". OMD completely changed the way you look at spiderman now. He used to be the #1 hero of the marvel universe, now he pretty much is a joke. I think Ironman has officially become the #1 marvel hero now, especially with the movie sky rocketing. So sad.

I disagree... I know lots of people that still think fondly and highly of Spider-Man (even on this board), and I have a few friends that never read Spider-Man before in their lives who are now picking the book up (and loving it) because of its old school soap opera storytelling form...

:yay:

[moraldeficiency]

I've bolded two points in your post that might be very relevant...

The guy states that Civil War was just coming to an end as he was reading the manifesto... and we all know that Civil War #7 came out in January of 2007... so in my opinion, that was probably still early enough for the guys to not have come up with an idea AT THAT TIME... that doesn't mean that the Braintrust dand/or Slott didn't come up with the mindwipe idea in April of 2007... well before BND began...

So to say that they didn't know how to deal with the answers when BND commenced is an incorrect statement... at least, if this is your "evidence" to prove that they didn't, then this evidence itself says otherwise.

Mike

:yay:

while, I agree they surely came up with some answers before BND began, or at least some common ground, they straight up said the harry thing needed to be waited on until someone could make a decent story on what happened.

Right after your bolded points:

"they did know they had to address it, they were simply going to wait until they had a story that made the most sense and that you guys deserved. That’s what made some of the early anger about "Brand New Day" so funny to me—most of the complaints were over story points we simply hadn’t revealed yet. But yeah, in some cases we weren’t sure. But that didn’t mean we weren’t working on it."

So it took about a year (or three years of issues) to figure out: oh the goblin formula actually brought him back to life.

[moraldeficiency]

While I won't disagree with you that it was mentioned in OMD, the reality will probably be that Mephisto set it up so that Peter (along with said ally) made it all happen...

But Mephisto did not "do it" personally... in my opinion.

:yay:

You mean an ally other than mephisto?

And the reality was the mephisto said he'd do it. Now maybe he did it by altering reality or altering people to make this happen but end of the day you have to give the devil his due (which apparently is one marriage and two mystical abortions).

[Themanofbat]

while, I agree they surely came up with some answers before BND began, or at least some common ground, they straight up said the harry thing needed to be waited on until someone could make a decent story on what happened.

And I can agree that while some things had answers, others were thought of afterwards...

But at the end of the day, what's wrong with that?

[moraldeficiency]

And I can agree that while some things had answers, others were thought of afterwards...

But at the end of the day, what's wrong with that?

generally speaking when the writers and editors don't even know what happened to their own character nothing good comes of it. Especially when they know these massive problems and plotholes would be something needing a decent explination. It's a little different from what most writers need to do which is come up with future stories for the character, these guys need to do both and make them fit with one of the most farfetched storylines in comics. Most writers I know need to know who a character is before they can write where he's going.

[kguillou]

It just. doesnt. feel. right knowing that this "new" reality was created by the Devil. It just doesnt feel right. If the circumstances had been different or if the reality was created by someone else, then it might be different. But to think that Peter owes this new life of his to the Devil is just wrong no?

[TheCorpulent1]

Yep. That's a fundamental change to the character's core as far as I'm concerned, like I said earlier. Peter Parker's not a hero to me anymore. He's not even really a good man. He's a selfish brat who compromised reality itself to go against his aunt's wishes.

[Franklin Richards]

Maybe they have us all fooled. We actually think this is the status quo. And a few months from now when Dr. Strange figures out why his magic has been steadily going downhill, he'll join forces with Franklin Richards and they'll defeat Satan, Satannish, Azmodeus, and Mephisto who have been gradually taking over the Earth. Some of the fallout will be Peter Parker's deal will go to Hell and everything will return to normal for Spidey.


I can dream can't I?


:ff: :ff: :ff:

[moraldeficiency]

dream away you magnificent bastard, dream away.

[Kitsune]

Yea but the reality of the matter is there are still a TON of people who've been reading all along and are still reading in hopes of finding answers to all these plot holes. I'm one of those people. I love spiderman too much to quit so easily, even though OMD made me die inside. I'm sure there are still may people like myself who are angry but want to keep reading in hopes that clarification will come and the books will get better.

I came at it from an opposite view... I bought it for a few months after OMD (Thought I deliberately avoided reading the last issue of OMD because I saw what was coming) I tried to stay with it, but I feel out of love of the character I had to vote with my wallet and pull it off my list. If people keep buying, Marvel will have no reason to change what they are doing.

[TheCorpulent1]

Marvel will never have a reason to change what they're doing. They're doing what their corporate overlords want them to and as long as they keep throwing big-name creators at Spider-Man (like they should've done all along), I doubt sales will ever drop low enough where they consider bringing MJ back or undoing Peter's devil-dealing or anything like that. At least, not under Joe Q's remaining tenure.

[TwilightPro101]

Marvel will never have a reason to change what they're doing. They're doing what their corporate overlords want them to and as long as they keep throwing big-name creators at Spider-Man (like they should've done all along), I doubt sales will ever drop low enough where they consider bringing MJ back or undoing Peter's devil-dealing or anything like that. At least, not under Joe Q's remaining tenure.

Thinking the same sadly.

[DBM]

Here's something interesting that I haven't read about on here anywhere.

The Spider-Man newspaper strip switched to an unmarried Spider-Man at the beginning of this year to better match up with the comics. Do you know how they did it?

They're just using a flashback. Simple as that.

The first strip in the new status quo states in a text box in the first panel "In the days long before Peter and MJ were married..."

No muss, no fuss. No big reveal, no 6 month long storyline. No deals with the devil. Peter just goes to bed in one strip and the next day we start a flashback with nothing more than a one phrase explanation.

Now, I'll admit that the newspaper comic strip doesn't have to deal with continuity and connections with dozens of other books like the Amazing Spider-man comic does, but still, this is a much more elegant solution to me.

[slipalong]

I don't see how this could be retconned without a reboot. What was wrong with Peter's marriage to MJ, I grew up with it :(

[kguillou]

That's just the thing, NO ONE was complaining about the marriage before Quesada started addressing it. There was never a "controversy" about it, everybody was fine with it, but behind closed doors the marvel bigwigs have been trying to shut it down since the early 90's, and even though all their attempts have failed, they were stubborn in getting what they wanted despite the fact that everybody liked the marriage and it had become a staple part of Spider-man's mythos.

[slipalong]

Just keep them married, as soon as they have kids, you have to acknowledge them aging!!

Mary Jane was a perfect counter-part to peter

[bryanss3]

I don't see how this could be retconned without a reboot. What was wrong with Peter's marriage to MJ, I grew up with it :(

they can kill peter give mephisto his soul and have him come back from hell. thats a stupid solution, but its one of the many ways they could retcon this.

[spideyboy_1111]

Just keep them married, as soon as they have kids, you have to acknowledge them aging!!

Mary Jane was a perfect counter-part to peter

agrees. Gwen was too much like peter imo.. and Felicia was just simply too much for peter. MJ was a nice mix of both, and he brought out alot and peter and made him grow as a character.

[Franklin Richards]

I told you how to retcon. Dr. Strange and Franklin Richards go kick Mephisto's arse!

:D


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[kguillou]

Marvel's too afraid that Peter's getting too old and that he is unrelatable to the readers. Also, they've seen the immense success of Ultimate Spiderman and probably came to the conclusion that everybody prefers a younger, single spiderman. Sigh....

[spideyboy_1111]

I told you how to retcon. Dr. Strange and Franklin Richards go kick Mephisto's arse!

:D


:thing: :doom: :thing:

you know, with mephisto's handy work, ilyana back, and dormamu returning in "cape" form... another "inferno" type cross over wouldn't be such a bad thing imo... could fix alot

[Blader5489]

Here's something interesting that I haven't read about on here anywhere.

The Spider-Man newspaper strip switched to an unmarried Spider-Man at the beginning of this year to better match up with the comics. Do you know how they did it?

They're just using a flashback. Simple as that.

The first strip in the new status quo states in a text box in the first panel "In the days long before Peter and MJ were married..."

No muss, no fuss. No big reveal, no 6 month long storyline. No deals with the devil. Peter just goes to bed in one strip and the next day we start a flashback with nothing more than a one phrase explanation.

Now, I'll admit that the newspaper comic strip doesn't have to deal with continuity and connections with dozens of other books like the Amazing Spider-man comic does, but still, this is a much more elegant solution to me.

And that's exactly why Lee's solution works for the newspaper strip and not ASM.

[KingOfMars]

It just. doesnt. feel. right knowing that this "new" reality was created by the Devil. It just doesnt feel right. If the circumstances had been different or if the reality was created by someone else, then it might be different. But to think that Peter owes this new life of his to the Devil is just wrong no?
I believe it is a bit unfair to only critisize this book for what it came out of, though i understand the people who have read amazing for a long time and were accustomed to the characters and the world the way it was i enjoy it because it is fresh again.I think it could have been done better, but it is still good.I wont allow a **** storm to leave a bad taste in my mouth, because to me thats one of our biggest problems as fans, that we cant get over the past and forgive, and we still blame creators who have been given the book by the editor so they can try to make since of the **** storm and only do the best they can possibly do.

[kguillou]

Look i'll level with you dude. I'm not saying the situation is un-fixable, because it definitely can be fixed and there is some good that can come out of it, but I just feel like Marvel went to such extreme lengths to get what they wanted out of the character and it wasn't even something that the fans were demanding. Everybody liked Peter as a mature yet funny husband and everybody enjoyed watching him grow. Now, i understand that marvel doesn't want Peter to age, which is fair, but they didnt have to de-age him either. They could've just kept him the way he was forever, heck isnt that what they're doing with every other comic character? Batman has watched both Dick Grayson and Tim Drake grow from kid to adult and yet Bruce Wayne seems to be the same 30 year old that he was back in the 50's. They just dont age him, simple as that. We've already watched peter go from kid to adult, and now that he's reached adulthood, they can just keep him there. They dont have to keep aging him until he's an old man with tubes in his mouth. Thats one of the beauties of comic books, characters can stay the same age forever and nobody cares. So my point is, i'm tired of marvel looking backwards not forwards, and i hope that finally now that they've got what they've wanted they can finally do that.

[Themanofbat]

That's just the thing, NO ONE was complaining about the marriage before Quesada started addressing it. There was never a "controversy" about it, everybody was fine with it, but behind closed doors the marvel bigwigs have been trying to shut it down since the early 90's, and even though all their attempts have failed, they were stubborn in getting what they wanted despite the fact that everybody liked the marriage and it had become a staple part of Spider-man's mythos.

While people may not have been openly complaining about it, I have to admit that the quality of Spider-Man stories really started to go down a slight slope shortly thereafter... sure there were some gems, but nothing that could have been told with a single Spider-Man...

And this is merely my opinion after reading 34 consecutive years of reading Spider-Man comics monthly...

:yay:

[spideyboy_1111]

While people may not have been openly complaining about it, I have to admit that the quality of Spider-Man stories really started to go down a slight slope shortly thereafter... sure there were some gems, but nothing that could have been told with a single Spider-Man...

And this is merely my opinion after reading 34 consecutive years of reading Spider-Man comics monthly...

:yay:

none of that has anything to do with him being married though :o

[bryanss3]

none of that has anything to do with him being married though :o

100% true:yay:

[imdaly]

none of that has anything to do with him being married though :o

I don't know. It got really annoying in the 90s reading issues constantly cutting away from the Spidey action to watching MJ standing inside her window worrying if Peter was okay and wondering if that'd be the night he doesn't come back.

Also, watching Pete slap his wife, and watching as Pete passed the webs over to his clone so that he could deal with the "greatest responsibility of all" by being there with his wife and future kid was pretty upsetting to many readers, if I recall correctly.

Now, I for one look at those cases and say "well that could've just as easily been the case had they just been dating seriously and not actually married"...to which I would then say to myself "Exactly. These stories would still happen the same whether there was a ring on their fingers or not". :)

[spideyboy_1111]

I don't know. It got really annoying in the 90s reading issues constantly cutting away from the Spidey action to watching MJ standing inside her window worrying if Peter was okay and wondering if that'd be the night he doesn't come back.

Also, watching Pete slap his wife, and watching as Pete passed the webs over to his clone so that he could deal with the "greatest responsibility of all" by being there with his wife and future kid was pretty upsetting to many readers, if I recall correctly.

Now, I for one look at those cases and say "well that could've just as easily been the case had they just been dating seriously and not actually married"...to which I would then say to myself "Exactly. These stories would still happen the same whether there was a ring on their fingers or not". :)
see alot of people put the blame on the marriage when it was really the story.
MJ did not need to be constantly worrying, but imo it does add for some good story telling, i mean i dont think one arch dealing with the marriage tensions would be that bad, esp in the beginning of there marriage. but constant worrying is bad.

Peter slapping MJ, and passing his red and blues to Ben was just piss poor story telling, that has not a damn thing to do with the marriage. Luke cage didn't hand over his bling in order to take care of his baby and wife, he bling'd up and hit the streets to protect them.

the marriage added alot of good things to, i for one love aunt mays death and peter and MJ's dynamic, i loved the tension and drama during harry's death story arch and him kidnapping MJ. I enjoyed watching peter and MJ split and get back together in JMS's arch. They just need to be handled correctly by writers who don't believe your life ends with marriage. Or the Joey Q's and bitter fanboys who are jealous of peter getting a model when they never could.

[imdaly]

the marriage added alot of good things to, i for one love aunt mays death and peter and MJ's dynamic, i loved the tension and drama during harry's death story arch and him kidnapping MJ. I enjoyed watching peter and MJ split and get back together in JMS's arch. They just need to be handled correctly by writers who don't believe your life ends with marriage. Or the Joey Q's and bitter fanboys who are jealous of peter getting a model when they never could.

I, too, loved all of that. ASM #400 is my favorite comic ever, and SSM #200 was right up there, too.

Fortunately, as with stories such as Aunt May's return, I've learned that while I may not like it when something is changed, or changed back, to a way it used to be, I can still enjoy those past issues just as much as I ever did, and you CAN get some great stories out of a bad one.

Aunt May's death in ASM #400 was incredible. Aunt May's return SUCKED. But thanks to that, we were able to see the story where she found out he was Spidey and how that all came to be.

Norman Osborne's death was great. His return, while the story itself was great, was disappointing in that it "negated" a good death. But I'll be damned if we haven't had some GREAT stories to come to us now that he's alive "again".

And I expect the same will be said about Harry Osborne, and with Peter being single again.

[spideyboy_1111]

I, too, loved all of that. ASM #400 is my favorite comic ever, and SSM #200 was right up there, too.

Fortunately, as with stories such as Aunt May's return, I've learned that while I may not like it when something is changed, or changed back, to a way it used to be, I can still enjoy those past issues just as much as I ever did, and you CAN get some great stories out of a bad one.

Aunt May's death in ASM #400 was incredible. Aunt May's return SUCKED. But thanks to that, we were able to see the story where she found out he was Spidey and how that all came to be.

Norman Osborne's death was great. His return, while the story itself was great, was disappointing in that it "negated" a good death. But I'll be damned if we haven't had some GREAT stories to come to us now that he's alive "again".

And I expect the same will be said about Harry Osborne, and with Peter being single again.

all agree to all but this. I don't see how peter fighting over Gwen and MJ ripoffs and having the same boring story of (spidey's friend/family member/ roomate) having a great hatred for spider man, makes for good story telling at all...

[spideyboy_1111]

btw, im interested to know where exactly felicia is in all of these events. Me and JustaBill were talking and thought it'd be interesting if Felicia for whatever reason was not affected by the spell and was the only one who remembered. Peter would look at her like she's nuts, and severly concerned about how she knows his identity... so felicia would try to go to MJ and get help as to what is happening. I know alot would hate it.. but i think it'd be a cute story between MJ and Felicia.

Also a few big plot holes imo would be that... what if a character was in space? or another dimension? would they have been affected by mephistos spell? especially those who were captured by the skrulls? What about the gods? There has to be some character that saw spider-man unmask and then be sent off earth....

[JustABill]

all agree to all but this. I don't see how peter fighting over Gwen and MJ ripoffs and having the same boring story of (spidey's friend/family member/ roomate) having a great hatred for spider man, makes for good story telling at all...
Exactly. They aren't telling NEW stories with single Peter at all. They are rehashing ideas that have been done since the 80's and 90's all over again.

Granted if Carlie turns out to be Menace that might spice some stuff up, she's still a lame new version of Gwen, same as Lily is the new Mary Jane. There's also maybe the possibility of the date with Ms. Marvel actually being shown and going somewhere for a while. Those are things that would be different and new. The only time Peter dated another superhero was Felicia and that wasn't really dating, and Black Cat and Ms. Marvel are two totally different personality types.

[spideyboy_1111]

o and another thought. In the event that will probably happen some day, of the carnage symbiotes return... since it's been floating off in space (which should be immune to mephisto's earthly spell) shouldn't he know who peter is?

[JustABill]

o and another thought. In the event that will probably happen some day, of the carnage symbiotes return... since it's been floating off in space (which should be immune to mephisto's earthly spell) shouldn't he know who peter is?
They'll find a way, they'll find a way. :rolleyes:

[spideyboy_1111]

They'll find a way, they'll find a way. :rolleyes:

to bring him back? or make him forget? because making him forget "just because" would be pretty much the lamest thing they've done since OMD was even conceived.

[bryanss3]

yeah a lot of the new cast sucks. like always both girls want Pete, especially harry's girl.
and that guy Vin Gonzales(the guy he shares an apartment with) do him and Pete even like each other. they live together but it doesn't seem like they'd be in the same room unless its mutual friends, or their arguing.
side note: Vin's seemed to not really care that much that he was almost killed wearing a Spider-man costume by Kraven's daughter. you think a cop would report being kidnapped and dressed up like spider-man and then almost being killed.

and where is Felicia I think a lot of people want to know.

[spideyboy_1111]

yeah a lot of the new cast sucks. like always both girls want Pete, especially harry's girl.
and that guy Vin Gonzales(the guy he shares an apartment with) do him and Pete even like each other. they live together but it doesn't seem like they'd be in the same room unless its mutual friends, or their arguing.
side note: Vin's seemed to not really care that much that he was almost killed wearing a Spider-man costume by Kraven's daughter. you think a cop would report being kidnapped and dressed up like spider-man and then almost being killed.

and where is Felicia I think a lot of people want to know.

ya... its just sad, BND ruins the dynamic between felicia and peter... now she just goes back to being mysterious hot girl in spandex? I loved how peter and felicia's friendship dynamic has been. She will always be his best friend and trusted ally. And thats kinda messed up now.

[bryanss3]

well they don't want him with his people they want him with these new people. they did to many stupid things with this transition, they could have kept Felicia and still made Pete close with her like platonic best friends, almost like brother and sister so no one has to worry about a relationship sparking up, and Spidey close with Black Cat and have Pete know he can never reveal what he's done or something bad will happen.

[imdaly]

Also a few big plot holes imo would be that... what if a character was in space? or another dimension? would they have been affected by mephistos spell? especially those who were captured by the skrulls? What about the gods? There has to be some character that saw spider-man unmask and then be sent off earth....

o and another thought. In the event that will probably happen some day, of the carnage symbiotes return... since it's been floating off in space (which should be immune to mephisto's earthly spell) shouldn't he know who peter is?

You're assuming two things:

1. that Mephisto's work effects only Earth and not all of existance

and

2. that Mephisto is the one responsible for nobody knowing who Spidey is anymore.

And you know what happens when you assume. ;)

Exactly. They aren't telling NEW stories with single Peter at all. They are rehashing ideas that have been done since the 80's and 90's all over again.

Well technically, in that same sense, isn't continuing to tell stories of a married Peter and MJ not telling NEW stories, but just rehashing ideas that have been done since the 90s and 00s?

As anyone who's ever dated 2 or more girls in their lifetimes should know, dating one girl is never the same as dating another. A whoooole other story usually comes from one girl to the next.

(and before you jump on me about that, no, I'm not insinuating that you haven't dated 2 or more girls before. lol)

ya... its just sad, BND ruins the dynamic between felicia and peter... now she just goes back to being mysterious hot girl in spandex? I loved how peter and felicia's friendship dynamic has been. She will always be his best friend and trusted ally. And thats kinda messed up now.

No, not really. Spidey and Black Cat were great partners and even dated all before she ever knew who was behind his mask. If anything, this may make things very interesting with them again now that Pete KNOWS he can't tell BC who he is, because he KNOWS that she only likes Spider-Man but not Peter Parker, yet she's gonna be back to imagining someone more her type under that mask and not know any better.

[imdaly]

well they don't want him with his people they want him with these new people. they did to many stupid things with this transition, they could have kept Felicia and still made Pete close with her like platonic best friends, almost like brother and sister so no one has to worry about a relationship sparking up, and Spidey close with Black Cat and have Pete know he can never reveal what he's done or something bad will happen.

Who's to say that's not exactly what's going to happen? Black Cat has forgotten who Spidey is, but Felicia shouldn't forget her friend Peter. She should know who both are, and just not realize that they are one and the same.

[kguillou]

The thing with Peter's new relationships though, is that its practically impossible for us to even care about these new love interests because we all know that peter and mj are destined for each other. Before Peter and MJ got married there was always that benefit of the doubt that maybe "this girl might be the one for peter". But now that we've been through 20 + years with Mj and Pete as a married couple, they're practically as iconic as clark kent and lois lane, and we know that they'll end up together in the future so what really is the point of having peter date some new chick?

OMD eliminated alot of the suspense within the books now. What's going to happen the next time Aunt may's life is in danger or she's near death? We're all going to roll our eyes and be like "yeah right, fool me once fool me twice". There's no more benefit of the doubt and no more suspense within these stories.

[bryanss3]

Well technically, in that same sense, isn't continuing to tell stories of a married Peter and MJ not telling NEW stories, but just rehashing ideas that have been done since the 90s and 00s?

no actually thats nothing like telling rehashed stories its continuing his life showing he is human making it seem like he actually can age. should we give him a new aunt since he's had Aunt May since the beginning as long as he has Aunt May they're just rehashing Aunt stories. right

[spideyboy_1111]

The thing with Peter's new relationships though, is that its practically impossible for us to even care about these new love interests because we all know that peter and mj are destined for each other. Before Peter and MJ got married there was always that benefit of the doubt that maybe "this girl might be the one for peter". But now that we've been through 20 + years with Mj and Pete as a married couple, they're practically as iconic as clark kent and lois lane, and we know that they'll end up together in the future so what really is the point of having peter date some new chick?

OMD eliminated alot of the suspense within the books now. What's going to happen the next time Aunt may's life is in danger or she's near death? We're all going to roll our eyes and be like "yeah right, fool me once fool me twice". There's no more benefit of the doubt and no more suspense within these stories.

very true as well. theres no more substance in the books anymore, its just like reading random issues, actually the whole book feels like a "what if" now..

[bryanss3]

Who's to say that's not exactly what's going to happen? Black Cat has forgotten who Spidey is, but Felicia shouldn't forget her friend Peter. She should know who both are, and just not realize that they are one and the same.

because if that was the case she would have already appeared in the book. what I said would have worked if it happened like 25 issues ago if it happened now it would be retarded. they obviously don't like any of the old cast aside from Harry Osborn which I am guess they brought back cause of the big stuff they planned to do with Norman Osborn to connect things. But it'll probably be a long while before we see Felicia Hardy, maybe she'll get to keep her legs when she shows up.

[bryanss3]

very true as well. theres no more substance in the books anymore, its just like reading random issues, actually the whole book feels like a "what if" now..

I agree all these talented writers and artists are kinda being wasted cause in atleast 3 or 4 years some one will decide the BND route was dumb and try to change it back and that will take even more work.

[spideyboy_1111]

You're assuming two things:

1. that Mephisto's work effects only Earth and not all of existance

and

2. that Mephisto is the one responsible for nobody knowing who Spidey is anymore.

And you know what happens when you assume. ;)

1) since when is mephisto (who i believe was retconned at one point into being a mutant) power stretched over all existence? since when has he been powerful enough to affect the ENTIRE universe?

2) yes he is.. mephisto still caused it, but obviously peter doesn't remember the deal at all, mephisto planted false memories in his head (or let peter think that what happened with the initiative went through (which opens up other plot holes, because you'd think peter would wonder why those who were in on it, have no clue who he is) your the one doing the assuming.


Well technically, in that same sense, isn't continuing to tell stories of a married Peter and MJ not telling NEW stories, but just rehashing ideas that have been done since the 90s and 00s? please think before you type. It's only rehashing when you tell a story thats already been told (or similar) peter was growing as a character pre OMD, he had established an adult friendship with his supporting cast (in FNSM) as well as had an interesting dynamic as a teacher, There was hardly any rehashing AT ALL... you had aunt may finding out about peter being spider-man, a nice relationship with jarvis going on, MJ befriending the female heroes, and becoming friends with sue storm. There was alot of good things happening. None of which was rehashing, hell none of JMS archs were rehashes.. sure some stories sucked, but all were pretty original. Nothing is original about Carlie or Lilly because there simply just MJ and Gwen all over again, nothing is original about the Kraven arch but suddenly bringing family we've never heard of, essentially the whole arch was a rip off of kravens last hunt, Vin isn't original, peters befriended many people who hate spider-man. A new goblin... thats not original either... its all rehashed stories.


As anyone who's ever dated 2 or more girls in their lifetimes should know, dating one girl is never the same as dating another. A whoooole other story usually comes from one girl to the next. yes.. but in these 2 chicks cases its same similar stories as gwen and MJ.. thus why its boring.

(and before you jump on me about that, no, I'm not insinuating that you haven't dated 2 or more girls before. lol) good, cuz i date guys



No, not really. Spidey and Black Cat were great partners and even dated all before she ever knew who was behind his mask. If anything, this may make things very interesting with them again now that Pete KNOWS he can't tell BC who he is, because he KNOWS that she only likes Spider-Man but not Peter Parker, yet she's gonna be back to imagining someone more her type under that mask and not know any better.
They grew alot closer after her running off during the unmasking. shes got his back in many a situations in the last 10 years, and peter could count on her with anything, even with trusting his wife and aunts lives in her hands. All her not knowing who he is will lead to just another rehash of her crushing on him and wanting to know who he is :o

[spideyboy_1111]

Who's to say that's not exactly what's going to happen? Black Cat has forgotten who Spidey is, but Felicia shouldn't forget her friend Peter. She should know who both are, and just not realize that they are one and the same.

umm you do realize there relationship was nothing like the animated series right? Felicia (not as black cat) hardly knew or is what i'd consider "friends" with Peter Parker.

[bryanss3]

please think before you type. It's only rehashing when you tell a story thats already been told (or similar) peter was growing as a character pre OMD, he had established an adult friendship with his supporting cast (in FNSM) as well as had an interesting dynamic as a teacher, There was hardly any rehashing AT ALL... you had aunt may finding out about peter being spider-man, a nice relationship with jarvis going on, MJ befriending the female heroes, and becoming friends with sue storm. There was alot of good things happening. None of which was rehashing, hell none of JMS archs were rehashes.. sure some stories sucked, but all were pretty original. Nothing is original about Carlie or Lilly because there simply just MJ and Gwen all over again, nothing is original about the Kraven arch but suddenly bringing family we've never heard of, essentially the whole arch was a rip off of kravens last hunt,


totally agree with everything, but the Kraven's first hunt story with Kraven's daughter was suppose to be nostalgic of Kraven's Last Hunt Thats likely why the even bothered using Vermin. But that story was misplaced its a story that would have been more nostalgic and fun if it happened before Pete Unmasked. I liked that story, but it was completely out of place with what was going on and showed that they don't know what they did with OMD/BND so most of the issues are fillers till they decide how to explain what they did.

[moraldeficiency]

Who's to say that's not exactly what's going to happen? Black Cat has forgotten who Spidey is, but Felicia shouldn't forget her friend Peter. She should know who both are, and just not realize that they are one and the same.

If the black cat no long knows who spider-man is how does she know peter parker at all? Unless they put fake memories in her to explain why she suddenly shacked up with a random news guy she never met before. So it would be like everything happened just like before with the exception of the issues that have already been retconned (marriage issue, last spectacular annual, every issue featuring or mentioning the baby), but everyone's memories have been altered so they don't actually know what happened or remember it differently (which is like making them not count since no one ever knew these things happened)....and now I've got a headache.

[bryanss3]

If the black cat no long knows who spider-man is how does she know peter parker at all? Unless they put fake memories in her to explain why she suddenly shacked up with a random news guy she never met before. So it would be like everything happened just like before with the exception of the issues that have already been retconned (marriage issue, last spectacular annual, every issue featuring or mentioning the baby), but everyone's memories have been altered so they don't actually know what happened or remember it differently (which is like making them not count since no one ever knew these things happened)....and now I've got a headache.

well its simple she knew Spider-Man which led her to know Peter that happened according to the everything still happened law. so they are safe as friends as long as no one asks how they met? this is stupid. i feel your headache

this is so dumb example: The Venom Symbiote knows Spider-Man was its first host, but it doesn't know Spider-Man is Peter Parker yet in this same issue AMS 569: NWTD book 2 Venom says "We've been in his head. Inside his soul. We know that meatbag from the inside out. If he's out there we'll find him" so he can sense Spider-Man but in the first page of the issue that same issue when the thunderbolts are in Peter's apartment on the first page Venom shows know signs of knowing who Peter Parker is other than he took pictures of Spider-Man. and then when he runs into Eddie Brock before he becomes Anti-Venom he says "oops wrong host". So the Symbiote claims to know Spider-man inside and out yet doesn't know a thing about Spider-man. did the Symbiote lie to impress Norman Osborn... Its a frickin alien lol this new found super secret identity from OMD is just ridiculous and causes way to many problems to make sense

[Themanofbat]

because if that was the case she would have already appeared in the book. what I said would have worked if it happened like 25 issues ago if it happened now it would be retarded. they obviously don't like any of the old cast aside from Harry Osborn which I am guess they brought back cause of the big stuff they planned to do with Norman Osborn to connect things. But it'll probably be a long while before we see Felicia Hardy, maybe she'll get to keep her legs when she shows up.

As we saw in ASM Extra #1, the Black Cat helped Matt Murdoch to help Spider-Man in court, and she even sends a "romantic sexy type message" via Matt to Spidey after it was all done, and this story will be coming up in the 580's or 590's, so it'll be in the spring.

:yay:

[spideyboy_1111]

totally agree with everything, but the Kraven's first hunt story with Kraven's daughter was suppose to be nostalgic of Kraven's Last Hunt Thats likely why the even bothered using Vermin. But that story was misplaced its a story that would have been more nostalgic and fun if it happened before Pete Unmasked. I liked that story, but it was completely out of place with what was going on and showed that they don't know what they did with OMD/BND so most of the issues are fillers till they decide how to explain what they did.

it was still very lack luster.. yet another kraven kid out on the hunt? and the wife we've really never seen?

i would have preferred the return of Calypso. One of spideys few formidable female villains.

[spideyboy_1111]

well its simple she knew Spider-Man which led her to know Peter that happened according to the everything still happened law. so they are safe as friends as long as no one asks how they met? this is stupid. i feel your headache

but like i've said, felicia was hardly friends with peter when she didnt know he was spider-man, infact she could hardly stand him. why would this suddenly make it different?

this is so dumb example: The Venom Symbiote knows Spider-Man was its first host, but it doesn't know Spider-Man is Peter Parker yet in this same issue AMS 569: NWTD book 2 Venom says "We've been in his head. Inside his soul. We know that meatbag from the inside out. If he's out there we'll find him" so he can sense Spider-Man but in the first page of the issue that same issue when the thunderbolts are in Peter's apartment on the first page Venom shows know signs of knowing who Peter Parker is other than he took pictures of Spider-Man. and then when he runs into Eddie Brock before he becomes Anti-Venom he says "oops wrong host". So the Symbiote claims to know Spider-man inside and out yet doesn't know a thing about Spider-man. did the Symbiote lie to impress Norman Osborn... Its a frickin alien lol this new found super secret identity from OMD is just ridiculous and causes way to many problems to make sense

im assuming the symbiote can still sense peter, just not know who he is. It's all ridiculous because many people should be doing a "WTF why am i drawing a blank" type of thing.

[spideyboy_1111]

As we saw in ASM Extra #1, the Black Cat helped Matt Murdoch to help Spider-Man in court, and she even sends a "romantic sexy type message" via Matt to Spidey after it was all done, and this story will be coming up in the 580's or 590's, so it'll be in the spring.

:yay:

again, her relationship with SPIDER-MAN shouldn't be different.. but it logically will boringly revert back to the cat and mouse game of her crushing on him without knowing who he is (more re-hashing) and the dynamic of trust between the 2 should be alot weaker. Sharing the identities built alot of that.

[TheCorpulent1]

im assuming the symbiote can still sense peter, just not know who he is. It's all ridiculous because many people should be doing a "WTF why am i drawing a blank" type of thing.
Which is exactly why the Flash's version of the mindwipe worked and Spider-Man's doesn't. The deception makes things not add up, no matter how you try to reconcile everyone's memories. In the Flash's case, Johns realized that and it was written right into the story so that the Flash had to ultimately re-reveal his identity to his fellow Justice Leaguers and closest friends. In Spider-Man's case, they're just chugging along as if everything makes perfect sense when everywhere readers look, they're noticing areas where some character or other should be scratching his head wondering why he doesn't know who Spider-Man is, or else a lot more has been changed than what Joe Q and the brain trust are letting on. It's called "hanging a lantern": if you know you have an inherently ridiculous plot element, you call attention to it within the story and have the characters rationalize it away for the readers instead of leaving the readers nitpicking why this or that doesn't make sense yet no one noticed.

[spideyboy_1111]

Which is exactly why the Flash's version of the mindwipe worked and Spider-Man's doesn't. The deception makes things not add up, no matter how you try to reconcile everyone's memories. In the Flash's case, Johns realized that and it was written right into the story so that the Flash had to ultimately re-reveal his identity to his fellow Justice Leaguers and closest friends. In Spider-Man's case, they're just chugging along as if everything makes perfect sense when everywhere readers look, they're noticing areas where some character or other should be scratching his head wondering why he doesn't know who Spider-Man is, or else a lot more has been changed than what Joe Q and the brain trust are letting on. It's called "hanging a lantern": if you know you have an inherently ridiculous plot element, you call attention to it within the story and have the characters rationalize it away for the readers instead of leaving the readers nitpicking why this or that doesn't make sense yet no one noticed.

agrees, and someone needs to let the pride go and if there going to establish this new world, and stick with it, at least make it make sense! Hell fans complained about MJ's broken arm healing in "the other" and a writer stepped in to correct that even... and thats nothing compared to this tangled web

[Themanofbat]

again, her relationship with SPIDER-MAN shouldn't be different.. but it logically will boringly revert back to the cat and mouse game of her crushing on him without knowing who he is (more re-hashing) and the dynamic of trust between the 2 should be alot weaker. Sharing the identities built alot of that.

How is it rehashing?

She makes her first appearance in a 2 part story (ASM #194 & 195), she then reappears in another 2 part story (ASM #204 & 205), and then finally, she reappears in a 2 part story (ASM #226 & 227) where Spidey starts to care for her, gets her pardonned from Captain DeWolff, yet the Black Cat "dies" at the end of the issue (this was in April of 1982)... so we habe THREE appearances up to date.

We then see the Black Cat a little less than a year later in February of 1983 in Spectacular Spider-Man #75, where she becomes a regular cast member in that book (and not at all in ASM), and from this point on, Spidey starts to develop his feelings for her that led to his revealing his identity to her in SSM #87, one year later....

So we have 3 appearances and 12 issues worth of stories (one was a 5 part story... SSM #75 to #79) where she doesn't know his identity and you call that "rehashing"?

:huh: :huh: :huh:

If anything, they barely scratched the surface of any sexual tension between Spider-Man & the Black Cat where she didn't know who he was...

Know your history....

:yay:

[Themanofbat]

Which is exactly why the Flash's version of the mindwipe worked and Spider-Man's doesn't. The deception makes things not add up, no matter how you try to reconcile everyone's memories. In the Flash's case, Johns realized that and it was written right into the story so that the Flash had to ultimately re-reveal his identity to his fellow Justice Leaguers and closest friends. In Spider-Man's case, they're just chugging along as if everything makes perfect sense when everywhere readers look, they're noticing areas where some character or other should be scratching his head wondering why he doesn't know who Spider-Man is, or else a lot more has been changed than what Joe Q and the brain trust are letting on. It's called "hanging a lantern": if you know you have an inherently ridiculous plot element, you call attention to it within the story and have the characters rationalize it away for the readers instead of leaving the readers nitpicking why this or that doesn't make sense yet no one noticed.

I guess we'll see "why" nobody is nitpicking when the explanations come around...

:yay:

[spideyboy_1111]

How is it rehashing?

She makes her first appearance in a 2 part story (ASM #194 & 195), she then reappears in another 2 part story (ASM #204 & 205), and then finally, she reappears in a 2 part story (ASM #226 & 227) where Spidey starts to care for her, gets her pardonned from Captain DeWolff, yet the Black Cat "dies" at the end of the issue (this was in April of 1982)... so we habe THREE appearances up to date.

We then see the Black Cat a little less than a year later in February of 1983 in Spectacular Spider-Man #75, where she becomes a regular cast member in that book (and not at all in ASM), and from this point on, Spidey starts to develop his feelings for her that led to his revealing his identity to her in SSM #87, one year later....

So we have 3 appearances and 12 issues worth of stories (one was a 5 part story... SSM #75 to #79) where she doesn't know his identity and you call that "rehashing"?

:huh: :huh: :huh:

If anything, they barely scratched the surface of any sexual tension between Spider-Man & the Black Cat where she didn't know who he was...

Know your history....

:yay:

I do know my friggin history I'm a friggin black cat afficianado. None of that is a rehash because it was in the past dealing with her stories for the first time. What would be a rehash is bringing her back into the mold, not knowing his identity, and pinning over him all over again. To "Re-hash" is to "Repeat", logically this formula would have to be repeated. If not it's yet another miss characterization marvel has done to a character in recent years.

[spideyboy_1111]

I guess we'll see "why" nobody is nitpicking when the explanations come around...

:yay:

well there's been so few.. and i guess you turned a blind eye to all the complaining over the jack-pot and venom explinations :o:whatever::o

[bryanss3]

TMOB are you the official OMD/BND spokes person any negative comment about how they ****ed up the story with what they did you defend it like it's your girlfriend.

[spideyboy_1111]

TMOB are you the official OMD/BND spokes person any negative comment about how they ****ed up the story with what they did you defend it like it's your girlfriend.

indeed... esp the kind that can't ever find any faults with his woman... (which is most annoying)

[bryanss3]

he's like saying "know she's a *****, I know she does things that don't make sense, but if you think really hard they make sense to me ,but you can't say bad things about her cause she's gonna get better I know just know it." and If thats the case he thinks we're dense for ripping apart things that don't make sense, but its kinda dense to defend something jut for the sake of defending it. The whole Symbiote not remembering thing makes no sense, the Black Cat thing you said from Spider-Man Extra #1 I never saw, but still she's sending sexy texts via Murdock, You think something like that would happen a guy who won't take off his mask for her ever and she still wants him, she'd of moved on long ago.

[jimbo 007]

Although the stories have improved since the start of BND (in my opinion anyway) it seems like Marvel's collectively flying by the seats of their pants. Any problems with the stories seem to have cheap, ill-concieved answers that s#!* on past stories. Stories such as Harry's "death" or the symbiote only kind of knowing who spider-man is.

I also think that Queseda and Co. kind of insulted the fan's inteligence. It's like we were expected to just accept everything that's been erased or reversed by BND and reply with a "Thank-you Sir. May I have another? I don't think they really planned on the fans having so many questions on what the frik is going on.

Ok, I'm done venting now.:yay:

[imdaly]

well there's been so few..

Well add a few more in today's issue, including why Harry decided now to come back, what his Prometheus-X serum thingy was for, why Harry rebuilt Aunt May's house, and how it alllll tied into <gasp!> pre-established continuity by JMS a few years ago! ;)

[JustABill]

Well add a few more in today's issue, including why Harry decided now to come back, what his Prometheus-X serum thingy was for, why Harry rebuilt Aunt May's house, and how it alllll tied into <gasp!> pre-established continuity by JMS a few years ago! ;)
GASP!

It still sucked. :o

:cwink:

[UK_Stu]

I'm not a hater of BND, but I am fed up of what is essentially a 're-boot' of spider-man in all but name, trying to be tied to existing continuity. If you're going to re-boot a character - do it properly. No continuity, no ties, start it from scratch - a la Byrne's "Man of Steel". If you haven't got the balls to do this, then don't do it at all.

[Themanofbat]

TMOB are you the official OMD/BND spokes person any negative comment about how they ****ed up the story with what they did you defend it like it's your girlfriend.

indeed... esp the kind that can't ever find any faults with his woman... (which is most annoying)

he's like saying "know she's a *****, I know she does things that don't make sense, but if you think really hard they make sense to me ,but you can't say bad things about her cause she's gonna get better I know just know it." and If thats the case he thinks we're dense for ripping apart things that don't make sense, but its kinda dense to defend something jut for the sake of defending it. The whole Symbiote not remembering thing makes no sense, the Black Cat thing you said from Spider-Man Extra #1 I never saw, but still she's sending sexy texts via Murdock, You think something like that would happen a guy who won't take off his mask for her ever and she still wants him, she'd of moved on long ago.

Wow... you guys sure a such nice fellows...

Please be my friend...

:whatever: :whatever: :whatever:

[Themanofbat]

I'm not a hater of BND, but I am fed up of what is essentially a 're-boot' of spider-man in all but name, trying to be tied to existing continuity. If you're going to re-boot a character - do it properly. No continuity, no ties, start it from scratch - a la Byrne's "Man of Steel". If you haven't got the balls to do this, then don't do it at all.

I disagree... while not all of BND has been good, at least Marvel had the balls to try something different... and that it to give its flagship character a new lease on life without dismissing the past... it's not perfect, but for the most part, it's been enjoyable, and I like/appreciate the fact that it still has ties to the past.

:yay:

[moraldeficiency]

I disagree... while not all of BND has been good, at least Marvel had the balls to try something different... and that it to give its flagship character a new lease on life without dismissing the past... it's not perfect, but for the most part, it's been enjoyable, and I like/appreciate the fact that it still has ties to the past.

:yay:

see I always saw marvel as trying something different by having one of the few married superheroes as a flagship. As giving the writers a dynamic not found in pretty much any other comic, and grounding it even more in responsibility by having the main character needing to consider the needs of not only himself and the people he's protecting but also someone they love more than themselves. It also had a hell of a lot more ties to the past before the retcon.

[Franklin Richards]

So we know that...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/AuntPetunia/Fantastic%20Four/Comic%20Scans/PeteFrank.jpg


And we know that Franklin can do this to Mephisto.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/AuntPetunia/Fantastic%20Four/Comic%20Scans/FranklinvsMephisto-1.jpg


So if Pete just asks Franklin to help him defeat the Bad Man then maybe we'll get...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/AuntPetunia/Fantastic%20Four/Comic%20Scans/RichardsParkerFamily.jpg


:ff: :ff: :ff:

[TheCorpulent1]

Aw, that "Uncle Bens" line was awful sweet. I almost miss Spider-Man now. :)

[DBM]

Aw, that "Uncle Bens" line was awful sweet. I almost miss Spider-Man now. :)

The Spidey/Human Torch mini was one of the best Spidey stories of all time as far as I'm concerned.

[TheCorpulent1]

Ah, I knew that scene seemed familiar. I read the Spidey/Torch mini, but my memory sucks.

[Harlekin]

I love that mini. One of my faves.

[iloveclones]

Finally, something we can all agree on.....

[Spider-Jay420]

Spidey meets Obama (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090108/ap_on_en_ot/obama_spider_man_2)

next issues' variant cover and inside info, if you guys are interested.

[hippie_hunter]

If I were Spidey, I would be asking Obama on why he's such a god damn retard for appointing Norman Osborn as the head of HAMMER. That and be a little peeved that he won the election in the Marvel Universe the same way George W. Bush won in 2000.

[ray243]

Hell, given that Obama *IS a real life spidey fan, I think Obama himself will ask Marvel about that.

Which make me wonder, if the President will ask Marvel to improve on their storyline.

Hmm, a marvel fan that CAN make a difference?

This is plausible if you are the President of US.

[roach]

or at least to improve their view of the government....getting tired of the bad government storyline

[Xofenroht]

It's just in keeping with the times. HOPEFULLY that'll change soon.

[hippie_hunter]

Hell, given that Obama *IS a real life spidey fan, I think Obama himself will ask Marvel about that.

Dear Marvel,

Why do you make me out to be such a ****ing retard?

Love,
President Barry H. Obama

[Dan_Slott]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/AuntPetunia/Fantastic%20Four/Comic%20Scans/PeteFrank.jpg

...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/AuntPetunia/Fantastic%20Four/Comic%20Scans/RichardsParkerFamily.jpg




Aw, that "Uncle Bens" line was awful sweet. I almost miss Spider-Man now. :)

The Spidey/Human Torch mini was one of the best Spidey stories of all time as far as I'm concerned.

I love that mini. One of my faves.

Finally, something we can all agree on.....

Say...

You know what might be kinda cool? If the guy who wrote that thing did... say... a big SPIDEY/TORCH/FF 2 part adventure in AMAZING.
Like, oh, I dunno... in April?

ttyl
Dan
:spidey::thing:

[JustABill]

Hmm. Intriguing, I must admit.

[iloveclones]

Dan the Pimpin' Man! Awesome!!

[UK_Stu]

I disagree... while not all of BND has been good, at least Marvel had the balls to try something different... and that it to give its flagship character a new lease on life without dismissing the past... it's not perfect, but for the most part, it's been enjoyable, and I like/appreciate the fact that it still has ties to the past.

:yay:

I don't agree with you. I've actually liked a lot of the BND stories, many of them more than a lot of the JMS stories, but I still can't get past the fact you can't make significant changes to Spider-man and still expect it all to link with continuity.

I agree that Marvel are trying to do something different and they should be congratulated for that - but by doing only a half-assed job of it they haven't really shown too many balls.

I've been reading Spider-man for almost as long as you I think, and like you first and foremost I want to read good Spider-man stories and like you I'm prepared to accept changes to achieve this.

Now while I wasn't unhappy with an married Spider-man, he was single when I started reading and I'd be happy to see him single today - if the stories were good. Divorce, separation possibly even MJ's death I could have accepted if well written. But changing the past to do it??

But its not just the marriage, other bits of Spider-man history have now changed too - Harry's back, Spider-man's identity is a secret etc. You can't make significant changes to a characters history and expect us to believe they haven't somehow affected other bits of history somehow. We are expected to accept these changes on the one hand and forget what they replaced, but also expected to believe that everything in continuity is exactly the same.

I've been quite enjoying BND, but I can't help but read them as detatched from Spidey pre-OMD. And while I feel like this, I can't but help feel like Marvel should have gone the whole hog with a proper re-boot or not at all

[Franklin Richards]

Say...

You know what might be kinda cool? If the guy who wrote that thing did... say... a big SPIDEY/TORCH/FF 2 part adventure in AMAZING.
Like, oh, I dunno... in April?

ttyl
Dan
:spidey::thing:

You know we'll be there, Dan.


Now about Franklin kicking Mephisto's butt...

:D



:ff: :ff: :ff:

[moraldeficiency]

eh, I don't know. a lot of the fun of the first one was pete(not just spider-man) and the FF becoming friends. Now most of that's been destroyed, the dynamic just isn't there. I loved how johnny was so pissed that he was the last person to know Spider-Man's identity. Now it'll probably just be odd off-putting references that remind people of OMD. But I'd be cool with it if there's more hostess cakes references, that was freaking awesome.

[moraldeficiency]

Oh, gotta say that line about Spider-Man mistaking Biden for the vulture? That was pretty cool. (in the obama issue preview)

[Congo Jack]

Say...

You know what might be kinda cool? If the guy who wrote that thing did... say... a big SPIDEY/TORCH/FF 2 part adventure in AMAZING.
Like, oh, I dunno... in April?
I'm doing my happy dance. Any news on who the artist is for this, anybody?

[Darthphere]

Say...

You know what might be kinda cool? If the guy who wrote that thing did... say... a big SPIDEY/TORCH/FF 2 part adventure in AMAZING.
Like, oh, I dunno... in April?

ttyl
Dan
:spidey::thing:

Son of a *****.

[K.B.]

Spidey/Torch team ups are usually pretty good. I cant think of a bad one.

(not saying they arent out there just none are popping into memory.)

[kguillou]

I'm definitely on board for a spidey/ FF team up but it just wont be the same without the "Peter Parker" element added into it. Oh well....

[Themanofbat]

I don't agree with you. I've actually liked a lot of the BND stories, many of them more than a lot of the JMS stories, but I still can't get past the fact you can't make significant changes to Spider-man and still expect it all to link with continuity.

I agree that Marvel are trying to do something different and they should be congratulated for that - but by doing only a half-assed job of it they haven't really shown too many balls.

I've been reading Spider-man for almost as long as you I think, and like you first and foremost I want to read good Spider-man stories and like you I'm prepared to accept changes to achieve this.

Now while I wasn't unhappy with an married Spider-man, he was single when I started reading and I'd be happy to see him single today - if the stories were good. Divorce, separation possibly even MJ's death I could have accepted if well written. But changing the past to do it??

But its not just the marriage, other bits of Spider-man history have now changed too - Harry's back, Spider-man's identity is a secret etc. You can't make significant changes to a characters history and expect us to believe they haven't somehow affected other bits of history somehow. We are expected to accept these changes on the one hand and forget what they replaced, but also expected to believe that everything in continuity is exactly the same.

I've been quite enjoying BND, but I can't help but read them as detatched from Spidey pre-OMD. And while I feel like this, I can't but help feel like Marvel should have gone the whole hog with a proper re-boot or not at all

I see what you're saying and I understand... I was really pissed initially, and I have given Marvel the benefit of the doubt to explain certain things... and "slowly" but surely, things are falling into place, which pleases me... they are taking their time with it, either due to planning on their end and/or not knowing "how" to make it work; nonetheless, I am happy that they can still tie the current direction with the past (to whatever extent is required).

:yay:

[TheCorpulent1]

So, now that Spider-Man has officially brought Obama into the Marvel universe as the new US president, I'm forced to wonder: Obama's the president who's now approving of a convicted murderer and well known psychopath basically running everything in the country even remotely tied to superhumans? That ain't change I can believe in. :(

[Congo Jack]

Say...

You know what might be kinda cool? If the guy who wrote that thing did... say... a big SPIDEY/TORCH/FF 2 part adventure in AMAZING.
Like, oh, I dunno... in April?Any news on who the artist is for this, anybody?
...and, as if by magic:
For example, when Slott started pitching his Spidey/FF two-parter it just screamed Kitson who was coming off of his Secret Invasion Fantastic Four mini-series

[TheCorpulent1]

Meh. Kitson's more than competent but I've never really felt too excited about his art. Something about his style just strikes me as sort of bland. Maybe it's the samey faces of all his characters.

[Congo Jack]

Meh. Kitson's more than competent but I've never really felt too excited about his art. Something about his style just strikes me as sort of bland.
I agree with this, I'm a little disappointed it's Kitson. As you said, he's more than competent but I was hoping for a return of Martin or McNiven for a Slott :spidey:/:ff: story. Of the plethora of fantastic artists that have worked on AMAZING since BND, Kitson isn't one of my favourites.

[roach]

So, now that Spider-Man has officially brought Obama into the Marvel universe as the new US president, I'm forced to wonder: Obama's the president who's now approving of a convicted murderer and well known psychopath basically running everything in the country even remotely tied to superhumans? That ain't change I can believe in. :(

looks like Mephisto is gonna be making some more wipes of the brain

[imdaly]

So, now that Spider-Man has officially brought Obama into the Marvel universe as the new US president, I'm forced to wonder: Obama's the president who's now approving of a convicted murderer and well known psychopath basically running everything in the country even remotely tied to superhumans? That ain't change I can believe in. :(

His stance was always "Change you can believe in". Never said it'd be "Change you can agree with". :csad:

[TheCorpulent1]

Who in their right mind would believe in Norman Osborn? :huh:

[ScottishFogg]

Believe in him or support him? I'm sure most of the Marvel U believes he exists . . . ;)

[roach]

hell in the real world media watch dogs pour over every decision the president makes and...im surprized that no one looked into Norman's past

[imdaly]

hell in the real world media watch dogs pour over every decision the president makes and...im surprized that no one looked into Norman's past

Did you say "Norman"? Or "Obama"? ;)

[T'Jai]

Did you say "Norman"? Or "Obama"? ;)
For Pete's sake he won. Welcome to the "Obama-nation"= Abomination as you so blithely put it...suck it up or move to Canada :whatever:

[fifthfiend]

hell in the real world media watch dogs pour over every decision the president makes and...im surprized that no one looked into Norman's past

Did you say "Norman"? Or "Obama"? ;)

Nobody looked into Obama's past? What?

How about you do me a favor and choke out whatever particular crazy**** thing you're on about so I can explain to you how flagrantly absurd it is?

[hippie_hunter]

hell in the real world media watch dogs pour over every decision the president makes and...im surprized that no one looked into Norman's past

Thunderbolts and Front Line pretty much explained why no one is doing it. The media loves him and he's the hero of the Skrull invasion.

No one wants to see a hero slammed on national television and the media isn't going to negatively portray someone that they adore even if it is for legitimate reasons (see Obama's staff like Timothy Geithner, Rahm Emanuel, and Eric Holder).

[roach]

Thunderbolts and Front Line pretty much explained why no one is doing it. The media loves him and he's the hero of the Skrull invasion.

No one wants to see a hero slammed on national television and the media isn't going to negatively portray someone that they adore even if it is for legitimate reasons (see Obama's staff like Timothy Geithner, Rahm Emanuel, and Eric Holder).

you'd think Peter who is a part of the media would clue someone in on his shady past.

[CaptainStacy]

Say...

You know what might be kinda cool? If the guy who wrote that thing did... say... a big SPIDEY/TORCH/FF 2 part adventure in AMAZING.
Like, oh, I dunno... in April?

ttyl
Dan
:spidey::thing:

Yes, VERY cool. Very cool indeed! :word:

[spideyboy_1111]

you'd think Peter who is a part of the media would clue someone in on his shady past.

most of the media knows about it... hell how many times has the goblin attacked the bugle?

[roach]

then its just a case of the Marvel populace being stupid...i see

[hippie_hunter]

you'd think Peter who is a part of the media would clue someone in on his shady past.

But take a look at the newspapers Peter has worked for. The Daily Bugle supports Osborn and the average joe isn't going to take Front Line seriously.

Also Front Line is filled with people like Ben Urich, who will help cover up a story such as how far Tony went in Civil War or give up when he sees a cause pointless such as exposing Osborn; and Sally Floyd who is a MR F.

[Themanofbat]

most of the media knows about it... hell how many times has the goblin attacked the bugle?

Not to mention that it was only a few short years ago that Norman's reveal that he is the Goblin to the world finally came out in the first arc of the Pulse.

And as is often the case in the Marvel U., a good PR man can make the public think it either wasn't true or some media stunt... and seeing as the world watched him kill the Skrull Queen, the public will all view him as a hero regardless of whatever "shady" past the media throws at them.

[spideyboy_1111]

then its just a case of the Marvel populace being stupid...i see

when have they not been? they hate mutants (even those who look 100% normal and could easily be mistaken for a normal superhero) but only accept alien/mystical/godly/science accident/ and cosmic superheroes... :whatever:

[Blader5489]

when have they not been? they hate mutants (even those who look 100% normal and could easily be mistaken for a normal superhero) but only accept alien/mystical/godly/science accident/ and cosmic superheroes... :whatever:

Busiek addressed that in Marvels. IIRC, people in the MU can accept superheroes because they were born as normal people, but acquired their powers (or whatever) later in life; heroes are trustworthy because we know where they come from. Whereas mutants are born with powers, and because they're born differently, they aren't as trustworthy.

Or something like that.

[spideyboy_1111]

Busiek addressed that in Marvels. IIRC, people in the MU can accept superheroes because they were born as normal people, but acquired their powers (or whatever) later in life; heroes are trustworthy because we know where they come from. Whereas mutants are born with powers, and because they're born differently, they aren't as trustworthy.

Or something like that.

which is incredibly stupid, considering mutants are "given" there powers during puberty (in most cases) which is not far off compared to other superheroes who are young with powers, other heroes are drug induced with powers, and others are mystical, extrademensional and cosmic powered... stuff that should be just as feared as mutants.

[imdaly]

Y'know, now that I think about it, it would've been cool to see Osborn either create a clone of himself or a "genetically-altered actor" to pose as a Skrull Osborn in order to explain away any wrong-doing he's been caught doing over the years. He could've then "returned" from captivity and taken that shot that ended the invasion, and everyone would be more easily fooled into thinking Osborn really was a great man and not a monster.

[spideyboy_1111]

Y'know, now that I think about it, it would've been cool to see Osborn either create a clone of himself or a "genetically-altered actor" to pose as a Skrull Osborn in order to explain away any wrong-doing he's been caught doing over the years. He could've then "returned" from captivity and taken that shot that ended the invasion, and everyone would be more easily fooled into thinking Osborn really was a great man and not a monster.

that would have made loads of more sense... have him capture a skrull and even "make him" shift into Osborne, for whatever reason, and end up betraying the osborn skrull in order to pull off what he did.

[TheCorpulent1]

But then all of the work he'd done with the Thunderbolts and the CSA would've been rendered moot. That probably went a long way toward convincing Obama (bleh) that Osborn was suitable for the role he now has.

[arachnid-guy]

Check out the Black panther #3 solict, Spider-Fans.

He's back!

http://uk.comics.ign.com/articles/946/946226p1.html

[TheCorpulent1]

Wow. Never expected to see Morlun again, let alone in Black Panther's comic.

[arachnid-guy]

Wow. Never expected to see Morlun again, let alone in Black Panther's comic.

Innit. I thought he was definitely gone the second time! Apparently not.

I did like him in his first appearance. Formidable foe and a pretty good catalyst for JMS' whole storyline.

[BrianWilly]

which is incredibly stupid, considering mutants are "given" there powers during puberty (in most cases) which is not far off compared to other superheroes who are young with powers, other heroes are drug induced with powers, and others are mystical, extrademensional and cosmic powered... stuff that should be just as feared as mutants.A little stigma goes a long way. How do you feel about a doctor and how do you feel about a lawyer? There's no logical reason why one would be a good person and the other wouldn't, they both got their "powers" the same way, and yet people always treat doctors as great people and crack jokes about slimy lawyers. It's all stigma and prejudice. It's not based on silly things like facts. One of the few things that I thought Civil War actually had going for it was that it shows what happens when the exact same stigma people had towards mutants get applied to the general superhero as well.

Also, I'm always surprised when readers make the point that mutants are just like superheroes and therefore MU citizens should treat them like superheroes. I guess reader rarely consider the fact that 99.99% of mutants -- the overwhelming majority of mutants that the average joe was ever going to see in person -- were actually not superheroes. We see the X-Men as representative of mutants, but 99.99% of mutants did not put on cool costumes and save people with their superpowers, they were just an entire race of people having normal lives. Of course the average joes are going to view this entire race differently than how they view superheroes; they didn't look or act like superheroes at all!

That is, until House of M happened and now 100% of all mutants are legitimately either X-Men or X-villains. So now it really does make no sense for humans to feel one way or another about mutants. Thanks, House of M! :dry:

[moraldeficiency]

I don't see why doctors get such a nice rep, to me their worse then lawyers (not hospital docs) as they get such nice kick backs for getting your whole family permenantly addicted to drugs.

[TheCorpulent1]

That is, until House of M happened and now 100% of all mutants are legitimately either X-Men or X-villains. So now it really does make no sense for humans to feel one way or another about mutants. Thanks, House of M! :dry:
But people still remember that there were tons more mutants before, and... um...

Yeah, I got nothin'. :o

[iloveclones]

I don't see why doctors get such a nice rep, to me their worse then lawyers (not hospital docs) as they get such nice kick backs for getting your whole family permenantly addicted to drugs.

I can't tell you how annoying the whole "heroes of the ER" vibe is to me. It's bad enough that they have a union (remember when unions looked out for the little guy, not stinking rich quacks), but their incessant need to be praised on tv and in movies kind of sickens me. I swear to God you would think the docs on ER are next to homeless. Ridiculous.

[BlackLantern]

not to derail but I like how this guy McKone draws Spider-Man....

[fifthfiend]

Also, I'm always surprised when readers make the point that mutants are just like superheroes and therefore MU citizens should treat them like superheroes.

Among other things, it wouldn't be proper racism if it made any kind of logical ****ing sense. You might as well argue that black people are just like white people and therefore people should treat them alike too. Which is true, but it ain't like that's ever stopped anyone with their heart set on being an idiot.

That is, until House of M happened and now 100% of all mutants are legitimately either X-Men or X-villains. So now it really does make no sense for humans to feel one way or another about mutants. Thanks, House of M! :dry:

It's less even that than just that there's so few mutants that they just aren't a functional target of hatred. It's like someone in South Texas being racist towards Eskimos, it's just not a thing that happens.

I don't see why doctors get such a nice rep, to me their worse then lawyers (not hospital docs) as they get such nice kick backs for getting your whole family permenantly addicted to drugs.

Because when you GET CANCER and you're going TO DIE they FIX YOU and then YOU DON'T ****ING DIE.

It's bad enough that they have a union (remember when unions looked out for the little guy, not stinking rich quacks)

What the **** are you even on about?

[BlackLantern]

....and is there some rule I don't know of where whoever is working on ASM is obligated to bring in Molten Man every few years???

[TheCorpulent1]

I think people just like him.

[chris moore]

A wonderment: Why has Peter not applied to work at the crime lab? It would be a great homage to the soon to be cancelled Spider-girl, it would hint that that alternate future is still a possibility, and it would give Peter a scientific job so he isnt wasting his brain while providing an effective way of keeping tabs on crimes and clues and whatnot.

[BrianWilly]

Don't be silly. Competency is not relatable!

[javi1024]

A wonderment: Why has Peter not applied to work at the crime lab? It would be a great homage to the soon to be cancelled Spider-girl, it would hint that that alternate future is still a possibility, and it would give Peter a scientific job so he isnt wasting his brain while providing an effective way of keeping tabs on crimes and clues and whatnot.
but peter didn't work in a crime lab in the 1970's so Joe Q won't allow it.

[BlackLantern]

A wonderment: Why has Peter not applied to work at the crime lab? It would be a great homage to the soon to be cancelled Spider-girl, it would hint that that alternate future is still a possibility, and it would give Peter a scientific job so he isnt wasting his brain while providing an effective way of keeping tabs on crimes and clues and whatnot.

There is no good reason to pay homage to a series that 1. Isn't that good 2. hasn't lasted terribly long 3. you only should be getting homage if you have done something significant....

[BrianWilly]

Wow, you really just hate good things don't you.

[BlackLantern]

Wow, you really just hate good things don't you.

I will give any series at least 3 or 4 issues before I commit to it....I read about 3 issues of Spider-Girl and I didn't like it....sue me

[bryanss3]

you said it hasn't lasted long 130 issues is pretty long.

[BlackLantern]

wasn't it canceled once for a few months and then bought back?? I tried picking it up about 6 months after it debuted....didn't do anything for me

[bryanss3]

I think it was just to reboot it or something I don't really read that much of it. I liked what I have read, but I mainly just stick with the main marvel universe.

[TheCorpulent1]

I doubt anyone at Marvel wants to homage it either way, even though it ironically embodies the sort of stories that BND has just brought Spider-Man himself back to.

[fifthfiend]

There is no good reason to pay homage to a series that 1. Isn't that good 2. hasn't lasted terribly long 3. you only should be getting homage if you have done something significant....

I will give any series at least 3 or 4 issues before I commit to it....I read about 3 issues of Spider-Girl and I didn't like it....sue me

You went from raging *****-fit to defensive cringe in record time there, sport.:yay:

[BlackLantern]

I wasn't raging on anything....I have a 3 episode or 3 issue rule for anything I watch/read...Heroes is getting 3 episodes into its new half season, if I continue to be unimpressed, I'll quit watching it....I tried Spider-Girl out of sheer curiousity, it didn't work for me because I didn't think it was any good....

[fifthfiend]

I wasn't raging on anything....I have a 3 episode or 3 issue rule for anything I watch/read...Heroes is getting 3 episodes into its new half season, if I continue to be unimpressed, I'll quit watching it....I tried Spider-Girl out of sheer curiousity, it didn't work for me because I didn't think it was any good....

There is no good reason to pay homage to a series that 1. Isn't that good 2. hasn't lasted terribly long 3. you only should be getting homage if you have done something significant....

Yeah no totally not raging at all.:yay:

I mean hey, whatever you gotta tell yourself, sport.:up:

[BlackLantern]

If someone presents a solid reason why an alternate universe series be referenced in regular canon, Ill certainly listen....and I don't consider that raging....Ive noticed that most people around the Hype tend to dislike something without giving a solid reason as to why....If I dislike or even hate something, I'm going to give my opinions or reasons why...

[TheCorpulent1]

People like Spider-Girl. That's as solid as your reason for not wanting to see it homaged. :huh:

[BlackLantern]

I like tacos...I don't need for them to be homaged

[TheCorpulent1]

I like tacos and I wouldn't mind seeing them be homaged more. Once again, as valid as your reason.

[BlackLantern]

I just read a one shot with Spidey and Man Thing....it was odd, but I liked it

[bryanss3]

Peter should eat Tacos and get a good paying steady job in AMS its been a year and he really doesn't have good paying job he makes just enough to pay rent with all the odd jobs he's taken plus taking pictures for the front line which I guess pives him enough for web fluid and rent from the looks of things. and having Peter work in a crime lab isn't a bad idea. doesn't he have a friend in that field and a room mate who's a cop. It wouldn't just be an homage to Spider-Girl it would actually make sense.

[TheCorpulent1]

Oh, but the first four months of post-BND ASM don't really count. Those were just a warm-up period.

;)

[BlackLantern]

I just like the fact that I can read ASM and read about Spider-Man, Ive enjoyed the change and I grew to like The Bookie

[Themanofbat]

Oh, but the first four months of post-BND ASM don't really count. Those were just a warm-up period.

:cwink:

:cmad: :cmad: :cmad:

:csad:

[JustABill]

I was wrong. I said I'd never imagined myself enjoying a issue of Spider-Man past Brand New Day, but I was wrong.

I actually mildly liked #584.

[kguillou]

I personally can't stand Guggenheim's interpretation of spidey, his quips are annoying and spidey just seems very immature in general. I like it when writers create a balance of maturity and comedy in spider-man like Slott or JMS was able to do. Besides that though #584 wasn't that bad.

[BlackLantern]

I shared my theory with a longtime spider-man fan (12+ years) on why I think people hated BND and was told to burn in hell.....

[Themanofbat]

I was wrong. I said I'd never imagined myself enjoying a issue of Spider-Man past Brand New Day, but I was wrong.

I actually mildly liked #584.

Awesome... :up:

Is it on video?

:yay:

[Themanofbat]

I shared my theory with a longtime spider-man fan (12+ years) on why I think people hated BND and was told to burn in hell.....

A very narrow-minded long-time Spider-Man fan... :down

Opinions are what they are... opinions... and while people may not like them, it's unfortunately to be told to "burn in hell" for simply sharing an idea...

:csad:

[BlackLantern]

Im sure there is a 'Molten Man' rule somewhere.....any way...I do like the 'Front Line' thing, Ive always liked Ben Urich and its cool to see him involved somewhere....

[JustABill]

Awesome... :up:

Is it on video?

:yay:

It is not on video, my comic reviews got to long for video form..and as I haven't finished reading all I bought this week yet, I haven't put the new reviews on my blog yet.

[samurai black]

and having Peter work in a crime lab isn't a bad idea. doesn't he have a friend in that field and a room mate who's a cop. It wouldn't just be an homage to Spider-Girl it would actually make sense.

I definately agree. He's a genius and yet he never uses it to his advantage. I mean, we're not asking for the guy to become Stark/Richards rich, but can Peter at least get a steady gig that will lessen the financial burden?

[Themanofbat]

I definately agree. He's a genius and yet he never uses it to his advantage. I mean, we're not asking for the guy to become Stark/Richards rich, but can Peter at least get a steady gig that will lessen the financial burden?

The problem with a "steady gig" for Peter is something that can never happen while he's Spider-Man, because being Spider-Man at times takes him away from real life for days... so no matter what type of "good scientific job" Peter would ever get, he'd be fired within 6 months for never ebing around...

That's why being a freelance photographer works better for him... unfortunately.

:csad:

[spideyboy_1111]

The problem with a "steady gig" for Peter is something that can never happen while he's Spider-Man, because being Spider-Man at times takes him away from real life for days... so no matter what type of "good scientific job" Peter would ever get, he'd be fired within 6 months for never ebing around...

That's why being a freelance photographer works better for him... unfortunately.

:csad:

except peter has enough talent to of patented something by now, he also might be a freelance photographer, but there's alot of other freelancing the guy is qualified to do.. if he branched out he would have more opportunities to get jobs done with his crazy random schedule imo.

[chris moore]

Daredevil makes it to court on time and handles cases, and his personal and hero life are constantly in turmoil.

Peter took that job teaching for a time, which involves heavily scheduled work times. Granted he lost it due to repeatedly missing classes - but it was also due to his identity being revealed and parents no longer feeling safe. With that out of the way, theres no reason he can't handle crime scene investigation followed by spidey action.

It would just be the most sensible job for a guy like him - analytical and challenging, yet not clock punching like research for a company and not dependant on bringing in grants like research in academia. Plus of course access to police info and learning which cops he can trust.

[kguillou]

Dude thats a great point you made about daredevil. Murdock is a big time lawyer and everyone practically knows he's daredevil now. There's no reason Peter can't have a steady gig like DD.

[BlackLantern]

I don't think DD's identity is public knowledge anymore...something happened to adjust that....I don't mind him scraping for the Front Line while trying to balance being Spider-Man and finding a steady job......if he was working in a crime lab, he'd be fighting crime by day and really fighting crime at other times....

[TheCorpulent1]

He'd be in the perfect position to make crimefighting his life, which is basically what it already is.

[BlackLantern]

He's basically a workaholic, is what you're saying....so why not make it official?

[kguillou]

Well, in that case shouldn't he have just registered when Tony offered? He woulda been doing what he does best and get paid for it.

[TheCorpulent1]

He's basically a workaholic, is what you're saying....so why not make it official?
No, I'm saying that crimefighting is his #1 concern, so why not just give him a job that's compatible with that instead of having him do random nonsense that he always misses or is late for?

[Anubis]

Yeah, professional Superhero.

[Anubis]

I don't think DD's identity is public knowledge anymore...something happened to adjust that....I don't mind him scraping for the Front Line while trying to balance being Spider-Man and finding a steady job......if he was working in a crime lab, he'd be fighting crime by day and really fighting crime at other times....

No, everybody still knows he's DD. Like how everybody knows Michael Jackson likes little boys? Same thing. Everybody knows, but they can't prove it.

[BlackLantern]

No, everybody still knows he's DD. Like how everybody knows Michael Jackson likes little boys? Same thing. Everybody knows, but they can't prove it.

last I checked (Brubakers run) Danny Rand was posing as DD and people saw Murdock in one place while DD was in another,,,the old texas switch

[Anubis]

Yeah, but it's still like I said. Most people are smart enough to consider that maybe he got somebody else to dress up like DD to throw off suspicion, but they're too dumb to realize that Osborne is a sociopathic murderer in charge of thousands of super people.

[TheCorpulent1]

I'm sure some people realize that. They're just too dumb to really appreciate what it means.

[SouLeSS]

I'm sure if you guys were in the Marvel universe, you'd be all HOORAY OSBOURNE like most of the non-heroes are.

Why? Because to them, Osbourne (who they may or may not know/remember as being the Green Goblin) has been hanging out for years without the goblin suit, doing mainly "good" things for his public image, and he ended up being the one to finally "end" the Invasion. Things moved incredibly fast from there, as he got into his seat of power days later.

They really wouldn't see him as this psychopathic murderer, and would see him more as a savior. Which is what they do.

[kguillou]

I disagree, i mean i'm a firm believer in "everyone deserves a second chance". If i saw a convicted murderer all of a sudden doing good things, yes, i would give him the benefit of the doubt. But Osborn has been proven to be the green goblin. a guy who's been blowing up buildings in new york for the last 10 years. Someone like that is kinda hard to forgive. However, i will say that the public isn't privy to all of the worst things that norman has done. Only Peter knows those things. As far as the public knows he was a lunatic blowing up buildings to try and kill spiderman.

[imdaly]

Peter should just invent something useful and cool every couple years and sell it via annoying commercials. That shouldn't take too much personal time.

He'd be the next ShamWOW guy! :D

[Blader5489]

I disagree, i mean i'm a firm believer in "everyone deserves a second chance". If i saw a convicted murderer all of a sudden doing good things, yes, i would give him the benefit of the doubt. But Osborn has been proven to be the green goblin. a guy who's been blowing up buildings in new york for the last 10 years. Someone like that is kinda hard to forgive. However, i will say that the public isn't privy to all of the worst things that norman has done. Only Peter knows those things. As far as the public knows he was a lunatic blowing up buildings to try and kill spiderman.

You would be surprised at the extent some bleeding hearts are willing to extend the olive branch to people like that.

[bryanss3]

I think he should work in crime lab or at least have a job for more than 1 issue. I don't think front line photographer counts counts as a job he barely makes anything there all he ever does is complain that its not like DB money.

[SouLeSS]

Peter should just invent something useful and cool every couple years and sell it via annoying commercials. That shouldn't take too much personal time.

He'd be the next ShamWOW guy! :D

With all the brillant **** he's come up with when he was like 16...I always wondered why he wasn't Tony Stark or Danny Rand tier rich. I mean, realistically if he were to create some kind of webbing and webshooters and all his other inventions, he'd be able to come up with all kinds of other things. He could be Spider-Man all the time, and be a Bruce Wayne type of business person. Super rich, doesn't really care, but it makes it so where he isn't *****ing about his life every other issue.

[TheCorpulent1]

He's tried to market his web fluid before, but he's never been able to work out the flaw that makes it dissolve after an hour. The adhesive companies he took it to weren't interested in something like that, even though it serves his needs as Spider-Man perfectly.

Also, I think it's been mentioned that Peter could probably be a full-on super-genius if he hadn't been distracted by his activities as Spider-Man and could actually focus on his education. Same deal with the Hulk, basically: he's a leader in the field of radiation, but he hasn't done a damn thing with that in the past few years because he's stuck turning into the Hulk every five minutes. Their powers/responsibility get in the way of achieving their full potential.

That said, there could be a happy medium where he gets a scientific job, at least. The crime lab would suit him.

[SouLeSS]

So he'd be Dexter.

Kind of.

But it stands to reason that if his 16 year old mind can come up with and create the webfluid, that he'd be able to come up with other things just as easily. Maybe not just as easily, but likely a lot more practical.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, but that wouldn't be relatable. :o

[SouLeSS]

Neither is being bitten by a radioactive spider, getting super powers, creating a super-hero identity, and having all kinds of weird-ass villains attacking you all the time.

[TheCorpulent1]

Tell it to Quesada.

[BlackLantern]

I talked to Quesada for like 2 min at SDCC this summer, he's an ok guy but you can tell the job of EIC takes its toll

[BrianWilly]

Photography skills would actually come in very handy in a forensic career as well. If he's not going to be a teacher and he's not going to further his own educational background, then his current skills are a perfect fit for a crime lab.

Which of course means that it will never, ever happen.

[SouLeSS]

I feel bad for both him and Didio. No matter what they do someones gonna *****, and they gotta make some of the tough decisions.

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't feel bad for either of them. That's the job.

[SouLeSS]

That kind of stress though doesn't wear well on a person at all, even after just a couple of years. Hell, look at how most of the presidents of the US look before and after their terms. Same principle, only on a much smaller level.

And that sucks, regardless of what job you have.

[fifthfiend]

I'm sure if you guys were in the Marvel universe, you'd be all HOORAY OSBOURNE like most of the non-heroes are.

Why? Because to them, Osbourne (who they may or may not know/remember as being the Green Goblin) has been hanging out for years without the goblin suit, doing mainly "good" things for his public image, and he ended up being the one to finally "end" the Invasion. Things moved incredibly fast from there, as he got into his seat of power days later.

They really wouldn't see him as this psychopathic murderer, and would see him more as a savior. Which is what they do.

What? No, that's silly, and you're silly, and none of that makes any sense at all. The man put on a bright green monster costume and flew around on a rocket sled throwing grenades at people. Nobody is ever going to forget that, ever. Claiming otherwise is absurd on the level that claiming people are going to just forget that Osama bin Laden blew up the World Trade Center, or Ted Kazynski was the Unabomber, or that Charles Manson carved a swastika into his head. Except that it's even more absurd than that, because for all the things those people did, they still never did any of it while dressed up in a green and purple monster suit, swooping over people's heads on a rocketsled and cackling a crazy-man cackle.

[SouLeSS]

And if Ted Kazynski were to, say, lead a team of commandos to take out Osama Bin Laden and keep America Safe (IE: Thunderbolts and Osbourne), and then proceed to take out the commander of an alien race who plans on enslaving and taking over earth, effectivly stopping their progress and kicking them off our planet, as well as feed lies through all sorts of outlets about how the previous commander knew about the invasion and tried to make a pact with them where they'd get hte planet....well you should get where I'm going.

You don't think it's reasonable because you don't live in the Marvel Universe. The people there play by a completely different set of rules than we do, so their mindset has to be somewhat changed. And the fact that a lot of people don't trust the super heroes, combined with the simple fact that most people on their Earth are oblivious to who the heroes/villains are, it stands to reason that they'd rally around Osbourne in some sort of deer in the headlights confusion.

Is it going to bite them in the ass down the road? Yea. Should they know that it's going to do so? Probably, but that doesn't mean that they wouldn't just go with it, which is pretty much what their doing.

[TheCorpulent1]

That kind of stress though doesn't wear well on a person at all, even after just a couple of years. Hell, look at how most of the presidents of the US look before and after their terms. Same principle, only on a much smaller level.

And that sucks, regardless of what job you have.
Well, yeah, but that's still part of the job. Presidents, CEOs, and all other leaders of major organizations know that and presumably accept it going in. That's why I'll never be president or CEO of anything. I don't want to subject myself to that kind of s***.

[SouLeSS]

Yeah, but think of all the money.

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't really need that much money. My sister's always been the money-lover in the family. Me, I'm fine as long as I've got enough to pay the bills.

[BlackLantern]

going into a high power position and being aware of what comes with it is one thing....but when I read on another board that a person hoped one of Quesadas children died so he would know how BND made him feel...that's a whole other level

[SouLeSS]

going into a high power position and being aware of what comes with it is one thing....but when I read on another board that a person hoped one of Quesadas children died so he would know how BND made him feel...that's a whole other level

There's plenty of people who think like this. ****, just look at the BND thread when it first hit. These kinds of things, coupled with the extreme amount of stress it is to run a company like that will **** you up, hardcore.

[TheCorpulent1]

But at the end of the day, I'm sure Joe Q cries himself to sleep on his bed of money. ;)

[spideyboy_1111]

for those who don't get the osborn thing.. one must remember... the Marvel Citizens just went through House of M, Civil War, and World War Hulk prior to Secret Invasion.... all of those past events were caused by "Heroes" and much of the damage was caused by "Heroes" The marvel universe citizens have not known what is up and down for quite a while.

[TheCorpulent1]

I hardly think the solution to fallen heroes being retards is to appoint a villain who's much worse from the start as their commander...

[Xofenroht]

It would, however, provoke the public in perceiving a psychopathic villain as a worthy hero who really should be leading his own government-sponsored military task force.

[K.B.]

Finally caught up o nthe last 3 issues

Molten Man issue: Loved McKones art but thought the stry was kinda ho-hum over all...had some good /interesting parts. Second half was much better then first half.

Betty Brant issue: At first I wasn't digging it but I actually started likeing it after a few pages and by the end, fell in love with it. Honestly one of the better BND books. Anyone notice the issues that dont delve to deep into the new status quo are much better and have a "timeless" feel?

Character Assassination: Interesting start..lets hope it pans out . Much better JRJR art then on the anti venom books.

[BlackLantern]

I really like how McKone draws Spider-Man.....I think Spider-Man is one of the most easy and difficult comic characters to draw...

[Spider-Jay420]

McKone's not my favorite Spidey artist, but he's good. I really like Marcos Martin's art. Whens he back on duty?

[ZeroCorpse]

What? No, that's silly, and you're silly, and none of that makes any sense at all. The man put on a bright green monster costume and flew around on a rocket sled throwing grenades at people. Nobody is ever going to forget that, ever. Claiming otherwise is absurd on the level that claiming people are going to just forget that Osama bin Laden blew up the World Trade Center, or Ted Kazynski was the Unabomber, or that Charles Manson carved a swastika into his head. Except that it's even more absurd than that, because for all the things those people did, they still never did any of it while dressed up in a green and purple monster suit, swooping over people's heads on a rocketsled and cackling a crazy-man cackle.

I dunno about that.

I mean, the perception of who is a "hero" and who is a "villain" is kind of hazy in OUR world. I bet it's absolutely blurry in the Marvel Universe!

For example, there are people in the United States of America, today, in 2009, who think that Adolf Hitler was a true hero, and they teach this to their kids.

Not screwy enough for you? How about this slice of old-school politics:

Saddam Hussein was our ally in the 80s, when he was the guy we supported and propped up during the Iranian Ayatollah Khomeini's reign (we wanted the Shah back in power, and Khomeini out of there). Saddam even received the key to the city in Detroit, Michigan! This was during a time when Reagan, Bush (senior) and the CIA were encouraging him to gas the Kurds, and we were funneling money toward the Taliban and "freedom fighters" in the middle east, training them to be effective fighters and spies, in the hopes that they would attack the "villainous" communists in the USSR, who were at that time mounting attacks against Afghanistan. Our American hero at the time was none other than Oliver North, good old American soldier.

Fast-forward 20-odd years to the early 21st century:

Saddam Hussein, former America ally, is now a villain, and everyone in America is told we should hate him because, among other things, he actually did all those things our government encouraged him to do. We attack his nation twice, capturing him the second time and allowing him to be tried, convicted, and executed. The groups of freedom fighters our CIA trained under Reagan's watchful eye are now known as Al Queda (and other terrorist groups), and the Taliban, whom we supported against the Russians, is now the enemy. We attacked Afghanistan (much like the USSR did in the 80s, which we condemned) and have maintained an aggressive presence there for over a decade. Oliver North is now known as the guy who was at the center of the Iran-Contra scandal, where he supplied Iran with weapons at the behest of Ronald Reagan, even though we considered Iran an enemy nation at the time. He's considered a political Pariah to this day.

George W. Bush, who was considered a do-nothing, lame duck President with sadistic tendencies (see his record of execution orders as Governor of Texas for some fun reading. He actually taunted people while they were being executed), was suddenly catapulted to the highest approval rating of a sitting President immediately after the 9/11 WTC attacks due to his appearance of swift retribution against the perceived enemy.

Seven years later, Bush would have the lowest approval ratings of any President rating since such polling began, and is considered a villainous figure by much of the world for his policies that curtailed civil rights, led to hundred of thousands of deaths in Iraq, and left the economy in a shambles.

These are just a few examples of how people can go from being perceived as the most vile of villains to being considered the most patriotic of heroes, and vice-versa.

Norman Osborn was in the right place at the right time. He was captured on television, on all major networks, as a CIVILIAN and BUSINESSMAN, striking the killing blow against the leader of an army that was INVADING EARTH!

Prior to his becoming the director of the Thunderbolts, people were assured that he was sick when he was the Green Goblin, and that he has since been cured of his mental illness. They were told that after his near-death, he was never the Goblin again; Those were other guys in the costume, and that was many, many years ago.

It's totally feasible that he could be elevated to hero status by a war-weary public. I've seen society embrace madmen, mass murderers, war profiteers, and psychopaths before. Hitler rose to power, bringing the German populace along for the ride, based on their belief that he was a good man who would lead them to a golden age of prosperity and security. The Germans weren't an evil society-- They were good people that believed a very bad man was a hero and a patriot.

George W. Bush violated almost every line of the Geneva Convention, and most civil rights articles in the Constitution, in the name of Homeland Security... And people thanked him for it!

Jeez. Dick Cheney SHOT A MAN IN THE FACE and remained Vice President up until the end of his term. The public accepted his apology and moved on, even after he had shown a history of war profiteering, being in favor of torture, and no regrets about the lies told to the public regarding Iraq's alleged possession of WMDs.

Crazier and meaner people than Norman Osborn have been America's leaders, heroes, and sweethearts. The people believe what the media and the government public relations folks tell the to believe.

[BlackLantern]

well Dick Cheney shot a lawyer from Texas in the face....is that really a bad thing?? as for Norman Osborn, I like him and have no problem....I do feel bad for the Thunderbolts though, they get passed around like a drunk sorority girl....first they're a group of villains, then they work for the Avengers, now they work for the government or SHIELD or someone....

[moraldeficiency]

so for the big revelations part arc, the last issue of ASM was basically a giant recap.

[javi1024]

that and theyre leading us to believe that Vin is the STK. its got me interested.

[spideyboy_1111]

that and theyre leading us to believe that Vin is the STK. its got me interested.

which he's probably not... either 1) he's been collecting them somehow or 2) there simply just peters

[SouLeSS]

I dunno about that.

I mean, the perception of who is a "hero" and who is a "villain" is kind of hazy in OUR world. I bet it's absolutely blurry in the Marvel Universe!

For example, there are people in the United States of America, today, in 2009, who think that Adolf Hitler was a true hero, and they teach this to their kids.

Not screwy enough for you? How about this slice of old-school politics:

Saddam Hussein was our ally in the 80s, when he was the guy we supported and propped up during the Iranian Ayatollah Khomeini's reign (we wanted the Shah back in power, and Khomeini out of there). Saddam even received the key to the city in Detroit, Michigan! This was during a time when Reagan, Bush (senior) and the CIA were encouraging him to gas the Kurds, and we were funneling money toward the Taliban and "freedom fighters" in the middle east, training them to be effective fighters and spies, in the hopes that they would attack the "villainous" communists in the USSR, who were at that time mounting attacks against Afghanistan. Our American hero at the time was none other than Oliver North, good old American soldier.

Fast-forward 20-odd years to the early 21st century:

Saddam Hussein, former America ally, is now a villain, and everyone in America is told we should hate him because, among other things, he actually did all those things our government encouraged him to do. We attack his nation twice, capturing him the second time and allowing him to be tried, convicted, and executed. The groups of freedom fighters our CIA trained under Reagan's watchful eye are now known as Al Queda (and other terrorist groups), and the Taliban, whom we supported against the Russians, is now the enemy. We attacked Afghanistan (much like the USSR did in the 80s, which we condemned) and have maintained an aggressive presence there for over a decade. Oliver North is now known as the guy who was at the center of the Iran-Contra scandal, where he supplied Iran with weapons at the behest of Ronald Reagan, even though we considered Iran an enemy nation at the time. He's considered a political Pariah to this day.

George W. Bush, who was considered a do-nothing, lame duck President with sadistic tendencies (see his record of execution orders as Governor of Texas for some fun reading. He actually taunted people while they were being executed), was suddenly catapulted to the highest approval rating of a sitting President immediately after the 9/11 WTC attacks due to his appearance of swift retribution against the perceived enemy.

Seven years later, Bush would have the lowest approval ratings of any President rating since such polling began, and is considered a villainous figure by much of the world for his policies that curtailed civil rights, led to hundred of thousands of deaths in Iraq, and left the economy in a shambles.

These are just a few examples of how people can go from being perceived as the most vile of villains to being considered the most patriotic of heroes, and vice-versa.

Norman Osborn was in the right place at the right time. He was captured on television, on all major networks, as a CIVILIAN and BUSINESSMAN, striking the killing blow against the leader of an army that was INVADING EARTH!

Prior to his becoming the director of the Thunderbolts, people were assured that he was sick when he was the Green Goblin, and that he has since been cured of his mental illness. They were told that after his near-death, he was never the Goblin again; Those were other guys in the costume, and that was many, many years ago.

It's totally feasible that he could be elevated to hero status by a war-weary public. I've seen society embrace madmen, mass murderers, war profiteers, and psychopaths before. Hitler rose to power, bringing the German populace along for the ride, based on their belief that he was a good man who would lead them to a golden age of prosperity and security. The Germans weren't an evil society-- They were good people that believed a very bad man was a hero and a patriot.

George W. Bush violated almost every line of the Geneva Convention, and most civil rights articles in the Constitution, in the name of Homeland Security... And people thanked him for it!

Jeez. Dick Cheney SHOT A MAN IN THE FACE and remained Vice President up until the end of his term. The public accepted his apology and moved on, even after he had shown a history of war profiteering, being in favor of torture, and no regrets about the lies told to the public regarding Iraq's alleged possession of WMDs.

Crazier and meaner people than Norman Osborn have been America's leaders, heroes, and sweethearts. The people believe what the media and the government public relations folks tell the to believe.
'

100% Truth. One also has to remember that we, the readers, have a whole hell of a lot more information and stories to base our opinions of him on, wheres the average Marvel Universe Patron wouldn't. Like I've said before, they may know he was at one time the green goblin, but that was years ago in their time and since then he's done pretty much nothing but build his image up in the public spotlight.

[CaptainStacy]

I dunno about that.

I mean, the perception of who is a "hero" and who is a "villain" is kind of hazy in OUR world. I bet it's absolutely blurry in the Marvel Universe!

For example, there are people in the United States of America, today, in 2009, who think that Adolf Hitler was a true hero, and they teach this to their kids.

Not screwy enough for you? How about this slice of old-school politics:

Saddam Hussein was our ally in the 80s, when he was the guy we supported and propped up during the Iranian Ayatollah Khomeini's reign (we wanted the Shah back in power, and Khomeini out of there). Saddam even received the key to the city in Detroit, Michigan! This was during a time when Reagan, Bush (senior) and the CIA were encouraging him to gas the Kurds, and we were funneling money toward the Taliban and "freedom fighters" in the middle east, training them to be effective fighters and spies, in the hopes that they would attack the "villainous" communists in the USSR, who were at that time mounting attacks against Afghanistan. Our American hero at the time was none other than Oliver North, good old American soldier.

Fast-forward 20-odd years to the early 21st century:

Saddam Hussein, former America ally, is now a villain, and everyone in America is told we should hate him because, among other things, he actually did all those things our government encouraged him to do. We attack his nation twice, capturing him the second time and allowing him to be tried, convicted, and executed. The groups of freedom fighters our CIA trained under Reagan's watchful eye are now known as Al Queda (and other terrorist groups), and the Taliban, whom we supported against the Russians, is now the enemy. We attacked Afghanistan (much like the USSR did in the 80s, which we condemned) and have maintained an aggressive presence there for over a decade. Oliver North is now known as the guy who was at the center of the Iran-Contra scandal, where he supplied Iran with weapons at the behest of Ronald Reagan, even though we considered Iran an enemy nation at the time. He's considered a political Pariah to this day.

George W. Bush, who was considered a do-nothing, lame duck President with sadistic tendencies (see his record of execution orders as Governor of Texas for some fun reading. He actually taunted people while they were being executed), was suddenly catapulted to the highest approval rating of a sitting President immediately after the 9/11 WTC attacks due to his appearance of swift retribution against the perceived enemy.

Seven years later, Bush would have the lowest approval ratings of any President rating since such polling began, and is considered a villainous figure by much of the world for his policies that curtailed civil rights, led to hundred of thousands of deaths in Iraq, and left the economy in a shambles.

These are just a few examples of how people can go from being perceived as the most vile of villains to being considered the most patriotic of heroes, and vice-versa.

Norman Osborn was in the right place at the right time. He was captured on television, on all major networks, as a CIVILIAN and BUSINESSMAN, striking the killing blow against the leader of an army that was INVADING EARTH!

Prior to his becoming the director of the Thunderbolts, people were assured that he was sick when he was the Green Goblin, and that he has since been cured of his mental illness. They were told that after his near-death, he was never the Goblin again; Those were other guys in the costume, and that was many, many years ago.

It's totally feasible that he could be elevated to hero status by a war-weary public. I've seen society embrace madmen, mass murderers, war profiteers, and psychopaths before. Hitler rose to power, bringing the German populace along for the ride, based on their belief that he was a good man who would lead them to a golden age of prosperity and security. The Germans weren't an evil society-- They were good people that believed a very bad man was a hero and a patriot.

George W. Bush violated almost every line of the Geneva Convention, and most civil rights articles in the Constitution, in the name of Homeland Security... And people thanked him for it!

Jeez. Dick Cheney SHOT A MAN IN THE FACE and remained Vice President up until the end of his term. The public accepted his apology and moved on, even after he had shown a history of war profiteering, being in favor of torture, and no regrets about the lies told to the public regarding Iraq's alleged possession of WMDs.

Crazier and meaner people than Norman Osborn have been America's leaders, heroes, and sweethearts. The people believe what the media and the government public relations folks tell the to believe.

Sad but true.

[javi1024]

which he's probably not... either 1) he's been collecting them somehow or 2) there simply just peters
oh yea absolutely. but then they could also try and throw you the curveball: after all is said and done they deduce Vin isn't the killer, and the final page shows that yes he actually was.

[spideyboy_1111]

oh yea absolutely. but then they could also try and throw you the curveball: after all is said and done they deduce Vin isn't the killer, and the final page shows that yes he actually was.

which makes it all feel like a let down :(

[chris moore]

Or he's been hired by someone (possibly someone who is gaining from the publicity of the STK while simultaneously backing whichever mayoral candidate looks the most like bringing spider-man in is one of their top priorities) to plant tracers on any suspicious bodies found. One thing to consider is that the tracker Carlie's friend came up with could trace the tracers even when they were switched off. Yet it did not lead her to Peter's room (remember the 16inch specificity). This tells us they weren't made by Peter in the first place (or thats a plot hole)

[javi1024]

well when the tracers first came up he said they were old ones that he hadnt used in years. he might have also said he changed the frequency since then.

[Metamorpho1977]

Since the have these stories a few months ahead of printing, I wonder if Marvel has an edition somewhere in the vault for just in case John McCain had won.

[bryanss3]

doubt it wasn't it a 4 page back up story I'm guess they could have made that and a cover in between Nov and January easy.

[K.B.]

Yeah it was only 4-5 pages and that and a cover can be done FAST.

[iloveclones]

Since the have these stories a few months ahead of printing, I wonder if Marvel has an edition somewhere in the vault for just in case John McCain had won.

It's an interesting question, but I doubt it. Most of the Obama-mania stems from the fact that he's A) not Bush, and B) not an old white guy. There's kind of a "coolness" factor with him right now, that JM wouldn't have had. Plus, that story had a little to do with Obama saying he collects (collected?) S-M comics. I'm sure they would have done T-bolts with the change, but as was said, the Spider-Man appearance was a back-up story, and very easily could have been pulled.

[spideyboy_1111]

Yea, plus there wouldn't of been a McCain issue... he's never given marvel a shout out like obama did

[javi1024]

doubt it wasn't it a 4 page back up story I'm guess they could have made that and a cover in between Nov and January easy.
i think i read somewhere that the Obama story was written like 1-2 weeks before print.

[TheCorpulent1]

From what I understand, it's not very good, so that's not too surprising.

[Spider-Jay420]

I was pretty bad. the Chameleon blew his cover by not knowing about Obama's high school basketball nickname.

Then made a comment about his basketball helmet, and playing on the basketball diamond. what a tool.

It seemed to me it should've been in a Marvel Ages book or whatever the kids line is. Especially after all the hype and CNN coverage, If I was not a comic reader and bought this issue solely for the Obama tie-in, It would only further prove to me that 'comics are for kids'. too bad

[Xofenroht]

That's exactly why I wasn't excited about it. It was too gimmicky. Barack Obama in a comic with Spidey? And the only material they had to work with was basketball?

Come onnnn...

[javi1024]

well it was what it was- a gimmick for Marvel to sell a whole s#@! load of comics and it worked. thankfully for myself i only cared about the actual story in the book so i was satisfied.

[Xofenroht]

Me too, but I didn't get to read that story because the Obama hype made them sell out. I think acknowledging Obama as President of the USA would have been better played in an issue of Captain America.

[spideyboy_1111]

Me too, but I didn't get to read that story because the Obama hype made them sell out. I think acknowledging Obama as President of the USA would have been better played in an issue of Captain America.

well obama stated he was clearly a spider-man fan. the whole point of the comic was giving him a shout out and getting to meet his favorite superhero, since he gave marvel a shout out they wanted to pay him back. It was never suppose to be a serious story.

[Xofenroht]

Yes, I'm aware of that. I STILL think he should have been acknowledged differently. A Bro-tap? Really? Whatever, like I said, I haven't read the story my self. I know it wasn't meant to be a serious story, I just believe that it should have had better execution.

[bryanss3]

isn't it basically the same story as the Savage Dragon story with Obama that came out a month before?

[TheCorpulent1]

Me too, but I didn't get to read that story because the Obama hype made them sell out. I think acknowledging Obama as President of the USA would have been better played in an issue of Captain America.
It's funny because this issue sold like hotcakes while the much more substantive appearance by Obama in Thunderbolts was almost completely ignored. I said as much to the guy who owns the comic shop I go to and he gave me a funny look and then flipped through Thunderbolts himself. He hadn't even heard that Obama was in the Thunderbolts issue.

[moraldeficiency]

the T-bolts issue actually used the president to further the story and was good. One thing I did like about the Obama ASM issue was Pete confusing Biden with the vulture that was gold in my eyes. If he had attacked Biden in the issue thinking the vulture was teaming with the cameleon the issue would have a lot more win.

[Mr. Green]

So is ASM still wrapped up in some Spidey event like the Other, OMD, or BND? I'd like to read some kick-ass Spidey stories but I really don't want to read any retarded events.

[javi1024]

So is ASM still wrapped up in some Spidey event like the Other, OMD, or BND? I'd like to read some kick-ass Spidey stories but I really don't want to read any retarded events.
the only "events" that have occured since BND is "New Ways to Die" which is Norman Osborn and the T-Bolts trying to arrest Spidey and the birth of Anti-Venom, and the current arc "Character Assassination" which has been hinted finally answer the mystery behind the Spider Tracer Killer and the new villain Menace (Goblin v.4.0). and these hardly qualify as events only because these are 6 parts each. the entire run as been made up of 2-3 part stories with plots that spread out and develop in the background (like STK and Menace).

[Mr. Green]

Sweet. Thanks.

[Xofenroht]

It's funny because this issue sold like hotcakes while the much more substantive appearance by Obama in Thunderbolts was almost completely ignored. I said as much to the guy who owns the comic shop I go to and he gave me a funny look and then flipped through Thunderbolts himself. He hadn't even heard that Obama was in the Thunderbolts issue.

That's because he was just there to represent the president. If my perception of time is correct, they would have had to have had those pages penciled shortly after the election.

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't understand. It's still Obama in a comic book, and he's actually being used to further the story in that case.
So is ASM still wrapped up in some Spidey event like the Other, OMD, or BND? I'd like to read some kick-ass Spidey stories but I really don't want to read any retarded events.
If you want to get technical about it, Brand New Day is an event that's going to last forever in the Spider-Man comics. ;)

[Xofenroht]

I don't understand. It's still Obama in a comic book, and he's actually being used to further the story in that case.


What I'm pointing out is that they used Obama instead of Bush in order to recognize him as the new US President.

Hell, what am I saying? It's not like I know what the hell went on in the Marvel Offices around election time.

I'll get off my soap box now. Me and these foolish ramblings.

Corp? Please shut me up!

[TheCorpulent1]

I could ban you if you ask nicely. ;)

I get why the ASM issue sold more. It's technically still regarded as Marvel's flagship even if sales on each issue are now middling at best, and the issue was promoted a hell of a lot more than the T-bolts one. It just seemed odd to me that a dude who owns a comic shop and, if I recall correctly, actually reads Thunderbolts wouldn't even be aware of another Obama appearance there.

[Xofenroht]

Yeah, it is sort of weird. I just like it when he appears on t.v.

I haven't actually been happy to see my president in about 8 years. Maybe a little longer, considering every time I saw Clinton (near the end) they were talking about who sucked his cock that day.

[TheCorpulent1]

I smiled yesterday when I heard "President Obama" on the radio. A week later and it still gets me. :)