The Amazing Spider-Man

[Eros]

logically speaking yes. But since were talking marvel and joey q's logic... no. The logic is "everything that happened, happened" except harry didn't really die, mj and peter never got married, (which logically defies some stories, much like the spectacular annual, and I can guarantee the clone saga as well), not to mention Joey Q's dropped hints that harry isn't the only one being brought back.... (with more and more hints leading to ben reilly). Not to mention the fact Marvel has completely ignored baby may since about 2 issues after her disappearance, as well as refused to acknowledge it since it "ages" peter :whatever:... Logically speaking... if any event "didn't happen" due to the marriage that could possibly rewrite the biggest black hole in the spidey mythos... it's the clone sage. I just hope Joey Q has the balls to do it.

Joe Q wanted bring back Gwen stacy at the end of one more day, he kept Sins of the past canoical after One more day. Joe Q is capable of anything.

[spideyboy_1111]

Joe Q wanted bring back Gwen stacy at the end of one more day, he kept Sins of the past canoical after One more day. Joe Q is capable of anything.

This is also someone WHO LET SINS PAST HAPPEN.... basically... i'm giving him a logical way to fix a gaping hole... and since anything can happen with him at the helm.... anything can happen. Thus my logic, indeed could.

[Kitsune]

This is also someone WHO LET SINS PAST HAPPEN.... basically... i'm giving him a logical way to fix a gaping hole... and since anything can happen with him at the helm.... anything can happen. Thus my logic, indeed could.

More then let it happen. Keep in mind that JMS wanted the kids to be Peter's (which would be acceptable, as the two were very much in love) but Joe Q felt having kids would age Peter too much. Personally I think Joe Q's obsession with keeping Peter Young is silly.

[spideyboy_1111]

More then let it happen. Keep in mind that JMS wanted the kids to be Peter's (which would be acceptable, as the two were very much in love) but Joe Q felt having kids would age Peter too much. Personally I think Joe Q's obsession with keeping Peter Young is silly.

I think we all think that about joey q... but him having kids (even though they rapidly aged) in there early 20's would be kinda weird.... and i for one would have been slightly pissed that they let him have kids with Gwen, but had no intentions of letting him have baby may.

I felt that If during sin's past, Gwen was drugged in such a way where she was sort of conscious during the act... thinking she chose to sleep with Norman, and blamed herself afterword... (though in reality it wasn't her fault) It would have been fine. The guilt would have kept her from telling peter and possibly allowed her to confide such a secret in MJ. And personally imo make Gwen a far more strong, independent, and interesting woman then she ever was before... sure her "sweetness" would be tarnished, but i'd personally have respected her alot more, for fighting for her kids as hard as she did. The whole sex scene just came out of no where, and was forced, and left very vague, id love a writer to grow some balls and fix it though.

[kguillou]

I dont understand how the story could've slipped Joe Q in the first place. Don't the writers have to actually let the editor in chief know what they are going to do with a character before they're allowed to do it?? How is it that Quesada didnt know what JMS was doing? I'm sure even Bendis has to tell Quesada his ideas before they're officially sanctioned right?

[Varient]

I think we all think that about joey q... but him having kids (even though they rapidly aged) in there early 20's would be kinda weird.... and i for one would have been slightly pissed that they let him have kids with Gwen, but had no intentions of letting him have baby may.

I felt that If during sin's past, Gwen was drugged in such a way where she was sort of conscious during the act... thinking she chose to sleep with Norman, and blamed herself afterword... (though in reality it wasn't her fault) It would have been fine. The guilt would have kept her from telling peter and possibly allowed her to confide such a secret in MJ. And personally imo make Gwen a far more strong, independent, and interesting woman then she ever was before... sure her "sweetness" would be tarnished, but i'd personally have respected her alot more, for fighting for her kids as hard as she did. The whole sex scene just came out of no where, and was forced, and left very vague, id love a writer to grow some balls and fix it though.

I tell you,.. Norman is being made out to be such an irresistable bootyhound,.. women can't seem to help falling and landing in "the position" .
I'm kinda surprised MJ, Gloria and Betty Grant, and that bookworm (what was her name? ) have not ended up knocked up by the Goblin.

Only Cage has a worse rap.

[Ion Kenshin]

I tell you,.. Norman is being made out to be such an irresistable bootyhound,.. women can't seem to help falling and landing in "the position" .
I'm kinda surprised MJ, Gloria and Betty Grant, and that bookworm (what was her name? ) have not ended up knocked up by the Goblin.

Only Cage has a worse rap.
Deb Whitman maybe :huh:

[spideyboy_1111]

I dont understand how the story could've slipped Joe Q in the first place. Don't the writers have to actually let the editor in chief know what they are going to do with a character before they're allowed to do it?? How is it that Quesada didnt know what JMS was doing? I'm sure even Bendis has to tell Quesada his ideas before they're officially sanctioned right?

if you honestly think it "slipped" by joey q thats a joke... lol. wouldn't be the first horrid decision or "ok" he let happen.. sadly wouldn't be the last either

[Varient]

Deb Whitman maybe :huh:

thank you,... thast was her.

Where did she end up anyway?

[Tron Bonne]

Joe Q wanted bring back Gwen stacy at the end of one more day, he kept Sins of the past canoical after One more day. Joe Q is capable of anything.

Actually that's somewhat inaccurate. I posted this earlier but there was an interview about what went down behind the scenes of the OMD/BND scene. Joey Q didn't particularly want to bring Gwen back, but JMS definitely did. Joey Q just went along with that idea until backlash for other writers and staff may him decide to not okay the decision

[K.B.]

I didnt have a problem with Norman getting with Gwen (and I didnt even mind he was the one who beat Peter to "the punch") because I think it is right in line with not only Norman but life in general. Women are attracted to powerful men and those men know and know how to use it.

Now Gwen getting knocked up by him is a whole other issue. THAT was crap and needed to go.

[Varient]

I find it sadly amusing that a woman can be a total **** for a man she deems "powerful" "Bad" "Dangerous" or any combination.

It seems so "anti-survival".

I spent years wondering why women I pursued treated me like an irritant,.. while women I tried to turn off were dry humping me every chance they got......

[Themanofbat]

I felt that If during sin's past, Gwen was drugged in such a way where she was sort of conscious during the act... thinking she chose to sleep with Norman, and blamed herself afterword... (though in reality it wasn't her fault) It would have been fine. The guilt would have kept her from telling peter and possibly allowed her to confide such a secret in MJ. And personally imo make Gwen a far more strong, independent, and interesting woman then she ever was before... sure her "sweetness" would be tarnished, but i'd personally have respected her alot more, for fighting for her kids as hard as she did. The whole sex scene just came out of no where, and was forced, and left very vague, id love a writer to grow some balls and fix it though.

I agree...

Having Norman rape Gwen would have made everything "normal", in the sense that he's Spider-Man's deadliest foe and he just "ravaged" his girl...

However, in this day and age, maybe the word "rape" might not be so allowed in Marvel comics...

:huh: :huh: :huh:

[Ion Kenshin]

I agree...

Having Norman rape Gwen would have made everything "normal", in the sense that he's Spider-Man's deadliest foe and he just "ravaged" his girl...

However, in this day and age, maybe the word "rape" might not be so allowed in Marvel comics...

:huh: :huh: :huh:
You're prob right. However in DC its allowed all the time. Just ask Dr.Light

[Themanofbat]

That's right... I forgot all about that...

I guess it was just "poor characterization" on JMS' part...

:csad:

[Varient]

You're prob right. However in DC its allowed all the time. Just ask Dr.Light

Anyone else surprised that Dr Light got off so easy with the hero community? I can think of more than one female hero who would have torn his nads off.

[Ion Kenshin]

Anyone else surprised that Dr Light got off so easy with the hero community? I can think of more than one female hero who would have torn his nads off.
Well he is dead now.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, didn't he get raped to death by the Spectre or something? The current Spectre loves those "poetic justice" kills.

[Ion Kenshin]

Not sure. But I know he got melted into a candle

[TheCorpulent1]

I should check Revelations again.

[Tron Bonne]

Yeah, the Spectre killed him by making him melt like a candle. He was just about to rape a few young girls dressed like the Teen Titans when Spectre gave him his due

[K.B.]

Having Norman rape Gwen would have made everything "normal", in the sense that he's Spider-Man's deadliest foe and he just "ravaged" his girl...


I think its kind of sad you guys would rather have her be raped...it really says a lot.

Norman would just rape someone either, thats not his style. He is all about psychological so doing the sob story act to draw Gwen in is exactly how he would do it.

Also, just read the newest issue of "The Boys" and the way they address the rape of women in comics is pretty true and hits the nail on the head.

[BlackLantern]

I think its kind of sad you guys would rather have her be raped...it really says a lot.

Norman would just rape someone either, thats not his style. He is all about psychological so doing the sob story act to draw Gwen in is exactly how he would do it.

Also, just read the newest issue of "The Boys" and the way they address the rape of women in comics is pretty true and hits the nail on the head.

I love that book and have to find a store near me that carries it...I just have the GNs right now...I might have to buy them through Dynamites website

[kguillou]

Yeah but the thing about Norman is, yes even though he is all about the psychological destruction of his enemies, there are moments when Norman just loses complete control of himself and gives in to his impulses. Thats why he's insane. It dont think it would be out-of-character for norman to have temporarily "lost it" and raped gwen.

[Tron Bonne]

I think its kind of sad you guys would rather have her be raped...it really says a lot.

No one is 'wanting' her to be raped, but it simply makes more sense for it to have gone down that way in the context of the story. Norman was a nutball plain and simple. Not to mention Gwen never liked him anyway in the older stories if memory serves, she was one of the few characters who saw through him.

You're looking too much into what people are saying.

Norman would just rape someone either, thats not his style. He is all about psychological so doing the sob story act to draw Gwen in is exactly how he would do it.

I personally disagree. I think Norman is more than capable of raping someone. I could see him doing it just to spite Peter because he 'got some' of Gwen before he presumably did. Then kill her to boot. That actually seems, to me anyway, like something Osborn would love to do

[TheCorpulent1]

I agree with Teardrop. Personally, I think it's sadder to think that Gwen could be wooed into cheating on the love of her life with Osborn solely on the basis of power and a hint of vulnerability. Kind of obscenely easy to get in her pants if that's the case...

[K.B.]

No way would Norman rape. Yeah he is a nut bar and a half but even when he is at his Snickers style nuttiest he wouldn't rape because it is "beneth" him. Thast something a "common criminal" would do (and I believe he has even said this at one point)

The Green Goblin is not and never was The Joker.

As for Gwen being lulled into bed, that dosen't make her a whore....a girl (or even guy) could have a heart of gold and put trust into the wrong person and end up making a terrible choice that they regret pretty soon after. It's called being used.

Now it has been years since I read the issue in question but does Norman tell her he used her right after?

[Tron Bonne]

Well, once again, I'm going to have to disagree. I think Norman is a step above 'Snickers' in the nut department. He's a murderer, a terrorist and outright psychopathic. I really don't see how he would view rape as underneath him, I've really never seen any indication of that.

Also, I don't think anyone said it would make Gwen a whore or anything, but as I said, if I remember Gwen never liked Norman in the earlier stories. She actually thought he was a bit of a nut. My LCS owner was talking to me about it and he said there's no way it'd be believable that Gwen did that with just some silly sob story from Osborne. I think it's mostly been agreed on that aspect of the story makes no sense with her character

[K.B.]

And theres no problem with disagreeing.

I find that people have a glamorized idea of Gwen as opposed to how she really was written in those old issues.

[spideyboy_1111]

I agree...

Having Norman rape Gwen would have made everything "normal", in the sense that he's Spider-Man's deadliest foe and he just "ravaged" his girl...

However, in this day and age, maybe the word "rape" might not be so allowed in Marvel comics...

:huh: :huh: :huh:

well... considering Felicia Hardy was raped in ETMD, and the puppet master raped or tried to a bunch of super females.... uh... rape hasn't been taken out of marvels equation. Though I do hate how conservative comics are getting ... seriously smoking? Hell that's one thing I admired about Stan Lee, he loved to push the comics code. Hell marvel just now had its first mainstream (decently known characters) participate in a gay kiss... (Rictor and Shatterstar).

[spideyboy_1111]

I think its kind of sad you guys would rather have her be raped...it really says a lot.

Norman would just rape someone either, thats not his style. He is all about psychological so doing the sob story act to draw Gwen in is exactly how he would do it.

Also, just read the newest issue of "The Boys" and the way they address the rape of women in comics is pretty true and hits the nail on the head.

to be fair... norman was quite possibly at his most insane during that time period too... he's not the calm and collective norman we tend to see in the comics now since his return.

[spideyboy_1111]

No one is 'wanting' her to be raped, but it simply makes more sense for it to have gone down that way in the context of the story. Norman was a nutball plain and simple. Not to mention Gwen never liked him anyway in the older stories if memory serves, she was one of the few characters who saw through him.

You're looking too much into what people are saying.



I personally disagree. I think Norman is more than capable of raping someone. I could see him doing it just to spite Peter because he 'got some' of Gwen before he presumably did. Then kill her to boot. That actually seems, to me anyway, like something Osborn would love to do

agrees, i also think it makes even more of an extreme motive for him to spark the idea to kill her. After all... It makes more sense for the children tensions to be growing, causing him more stress and insanity, that this woman he impregnated with his legacy (Something norman has always been obsessed with as well as a big thing to hold against his arch enemy), this would cause him to snap far more logically and decide to kill 2 birds with one stone. Rid himself of the female who's kept his heirs from him, as well as rip apart his mortal enemy. Rather then just randomly one day deciding to kidnap her and take her to a bridge.

[Themanofbat]

Also, I don't think anyone said it would make Gwen a whore or anything, but as I said, if I remember Gwen never liked Norman in the earlier stories. She actually thought he was a bit of a nut. My LCS owner was talking to me about it and he said there's no way it'd be believable that Gwen did that with just some silly sob story from Osborne. I think it's mostly been agreed on that aspect of the story makes no sense with her character

Gwen really liked Norman after he AND Spider-Man helped save her father as well as her own life at the end of the BrainWasher story in ASM #59, 60 & 61.

- Time Travelling TMoB...

:yay:

[Themanofbat]

I think its kind of sad you guys would rather have her be raped...it really says a lot.

See below...

No one is 'wanting' her to be raped, but it simply makes more sense for it to have gone down that way in the context of the story. Norman was a nutball plain and simple.

I don't want to read about rape in comics, but if the basis of the story was to have Gwen pregnant with Norman's babies, it would have made more sense to me if Norman forced himself upon Gwen rather than thinking she simply "succumbed" to him...

[Tron Bonne]

Oh, then I misspoke I suppose. What about before that? I remember reading some of the older stories where Gwen expressed some distaste for Osborne, though I can't remember any specifics

[Themanofbat]

Oh, then I misspoke I suppose. What about before that? I remember reading some of the older stories where Gwen expressed some distaste for Osborne, though I can't remember any specifics

I'd have to go back and look at some of the books, but remember that Gwen & Harry knew each other from High School, so it would be natural to think that she didn't think much of Harry's father... seeing as Harry didn't think much of him neither.

[Kitsune]

http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq13/kitsuneusa/gwentumblejl5.jpg
What this about Gwen being a whore?

[Tron Bonne]

Hah, that's great. Right up there with Joker's boner

[Kitsune]

Hah, that's great. Right up there with Joker's boner

I'd be pretty scared if Joker was preparing a boner for me :(

[Tron Bonne]

Not just a boner, a boner like the city has never seen before!

Heh, I love that. I can't believe boner was suppose to the equivalent of meaning 'heist' back in the bad

[Kitsune]

Not just a boner, a boner like the city has never seen before!

Heh, I love that. I can't believe boner was suppose to the equivalent of meaning 'heist' back in the bad

No it meant 'screw up'

I still love the bit about studying the greatest boners of all times.

[kguillou]

Random question Teardrop, where's that quote from on your post?

[Tron Bonne]

No it meant 'screw up'

I still love the bit about studying the greatest boners of all times.

Oh, my bad then.

Random question Teardrop, where's that quote from on your post?

It's from the video game Team Fortress 2. It's a multiplayer PC FPS and they did promotional videos for the classes. One of them was for the spy and I took that quote from it.

http://www.teamfortress.com/sniper_vs_spy/day05_english.htm

There's the video to give you some context. Even if you don't play the game or anything it's still fairly funny

[WolfCypher]

http://marvel.com/news/comicstories.8650.Marvel_Hotline~colon~_Amazing_Sp ider-Man_Annual_%2336

[hippie_hunter]

You're prob right. However in DC its allowed all the time. Just ask Dr.Light

http://livingbetweenwednesdays.blogspot.com/2006/11/can-we-talk-about-something-else.html

[spideyboy_1111]

hmm there definately making it out to look like the new villain is ben reilly... interesting.

[venom892]

http://livingbetweenwednesdays.blogspot.com/2006/11/can-we-talk-about-something-else.htmlThat was hilarious.:woot:

[TheCorpulent1]

hmm there definately making it out to look like the new villain is ben reilly... interesting.
By far the easiest way to turn me off to Spider-Man comics all over again.

[spideyboy_1111]

By far the easiest way to turn me off to Spider-Man comics all over again.

its never usually what they try to let us think any way

[venom892]

By far the easiest way to turn me off to Spider-Man comics all over again.You never know.They may pull a Dan Ketch.

[javi1024]

so...if Ben really is coming back, how are they gonna explain that? i know were talking about comic books here, but how do you survive disintegration?

[TheCorpulent1]

You never know.They may pull a Dan Ketch.
What, make him a villain/addict, drive me away from the series, and then bring him to such a pathetically low point in his life that he switches to doing good solely because he thinks he sucks at everything else and he's doomed the world anyway? Yeah, that was some fantastic work with Dan Ketch there...

[spideyboy_1111]

so...if Ben really is coming back, how are they gonna explain that? i know were talking about comic books here, but how do you survive disintegration?

well like i said... it's quite possible the clone sage might of played out differently. there's also the fact that ben could have been 1 of 2 clones... or who knows, maybe kaine did something.

[venom892]

What, make him a villain/addict, drive me away from the series, and then bring him to such a pathetically low point in his life that he switches to doing good solely because he thinks he sucks at everything else and he's doomed the world anyway? Yeah, that was some fantastic work with Dan Ketch there...Yea pretty much.I'll admit i never read the Ketch series and I've enjoyed Aaron's Ghost Rider A lot but Ketch came off as really stupid working and being played by Zadkiel.I mean come on Danny working with the guy who killed your sister just because so angel plays you like a string into thinking your doing good?I thought you were smarter and had more sense.

[TheCorpulent1]

Exactly. Now take that and magnify it by a hundred because I actually did read Ketch's series and prefer him as the Ghost Rider to Blaze.

[mre]

so...if Ben really is coming back, how are they gonna explain that? i know were talking about comic books here, but how do you survive disintegration?

Remember, Norman kidnapped Ben. It probably wasn't the real Ben that died. He's probably in one of Norman's secret hiding places somewhere.
Sound dumb? He did it with Aunt May.

[TheCorpulent1]

Maybe Peter will hoof it through a forest and get tortured long enough to grow a beard for Ben, too.

... Nah.

[Kraven]

so...if Ben really is coming back, how are they gonna explain that? i know were talking about comic books here, but how do you survive disintegration?

I think there was a story during the Clone Saga period that explained how only imperfect clones disintegrate when they die. As Ben was a perfect clone, he wouldn't have disintegrated... I don't remember where I saw that, maybe I'm just pulling it out of my ass but I think that was said at one point.

[TheCorpulent1]

But Ben disintegrating was what proved once and for all that Peter was the original. Dun dun DUNNNNN!!

[Kraven]

True... My guess they just did the disintegration as a way to put the entire Clone Saga to rest, to prove Peter's the original and all that... But if what I said is true (I think it is) then they actually just left open another door for his return.

[WolfCypher]

Kraven, I remember reading about the imperfect clone degeneration process on Spidey Kicks Butt.

[Themanofbat]

ASM Annual #36 came out today with some Ben Reilly goodness...

I liked it a LOT!!! :up:

:yay:

[Spider-Jay420]

spoilers?

[Themanofbat]

It starts out pretty much as seen in the preview... a mystery man fights another guy while the house is on fire several years ago in Portland... the mystery man looks like Peter Parker, so we could "assume" that it was Ben Reilly.

We then move to today in Boston where JJJSr. has flown everybody to a restaurent for a surprise for May, which turns out to be a Reilly family reunion headed by May's sister Jan. There's a mention of another sister April that is the black sheep of the family and nobody talks to her. We get to see Peter's newfound cousins, especially some "hot" ones that Peter can't help take his eyes off of... Meanwhile, the villain "Raptor" is watching this because he's been watching the Reilly family for 6 months, and he's pleased because the reunion has finally drawn "him" out...

When Peter ducks into the bathroom, Raptor attacks Peter, there's a minor scrimmage and Peter throws them both out the window (as he would if he didn't have powers and was just scared). Raptor crashes to the pavement only to find himself attacked by Spider-Man. There's a big fight all the while Raptor claims he's not the bad guy and he wants Spidey to back off. This goes on for a while until Spidey finally asks to the guy what he had against Peter Parker... to which the guy responds... "His name's not Peter Parker! His name is Ben Reilly!".

Naturally, hearing the name sends Spidey into a semi-state of shock as memories of the Clone Saga fill the next few pages with various pics of Ben and the Scarlet Spider. "Ben Reilly" he thinks... "A name I haven't heard in years. A name I thought I'd never hear again."...

Spidey then tells the guy Ben Reilly is dead, he flips out and calls Spidey a liar and escapes.

Though thanks to police reports, Spidey gets the name of his assailant... Damon Ryder.

When Peter gets back to NY, he googles the name, and it gives him the story about the fire in which Ryder's family died and he was the sole survivor.

It ends with Peter questioning to himself... "Ben... What did you do?"

Continued in Amazing Spider-Man!

[Tron Bonne]

Hmm

Seems like they're painting Ben to be a villain, or have done something villainous in nature. Won't be surprised if it all ends up being a red herring

[Themanofbat]

Hmm

Seems like they're painting Ben to be a villain, or have done something villainous in nature. Won't be surprised if it all ends up being a red herring

I agree...

:yay:

[iloveclones]

True... My guess they just did the disintegration as a way to put the entire Clone Saga to rest, to prove Peter's the original and all that... But if what I said is true (I think it is) then they actually just left open another door for his return.

Your guess would be correct. The writers were told to have him disintegrate to make sure there was no discussion/controversy. They even explained that it didn't work like that, but they wanted to make sure there was a final end to it.

Strangely enough, having him disintegrate actually made it more likely that Disintegrating Ben was not the real Ben. I'll bet you anything that if they ever bring him back, that will be part of the explanation.

[Superunknown]

The first hardcore admittance of the Clone Saga by Marvel in years, I love it! Is Ben coming back? I absolutely doubt that, but if he did, I'd be shocked. :word:

[WolfCypher]

"Hi, Tiger! I'm Back!"

"Oh, Mary-Jane! Great to see ya! You're just in time for the return of the Clone Saga!"

"Uh-uh, baby, nevermind! I am outta here! Where is Mephisto at?!"

[iloveclones]

ASM Annual #36 came out today with some Ben Reilly goodness...

I liked it a LOT!!! :up:

:yay:

Me too. Makes me want me some more clonely goodness....

[Themanofbat]

It's been a looooooooooooooooooong time since we've read an ASM Annual that actually mattered...

:o

[Infidel]

By far the easiest way to turn me off to Spider-Man comics all over again.


No kidding. There's no way I'm reading that book again. It's just the worst. Do they deliberatly do the worst ideas they can think of?:huh:

[spidey-dude]

peter seemed to remember alot of bad things about ben but not the brotherly love aspect so much

'iloveclones' how come you never stop by the fans of reilly thread we have goin?

[Kitsune]

Okay, I admit it, I liked Ben. Not as a replacement for Peter, but as his own person. He was the one good thing about the clone saga

[Brainiac 8]

They have me interested. The one thing I liked about the Clone Saga was that I really liked Ben Reilly. Loved him as the Scarlet Spider.

[iloveclones]

peter seemed to remember alot of bad things about ben but not the brotherly love aspect so much

'iloveclones' how come you never stop by the fans of reilly thread we have goin?


I stop by. I'm mostly a lurker there. Probably if they decide to do something with him ever again, I may start commenting.

[iloveclones]

It's been a looooooooooooooooooong time since we've read an ASM Annual that actually mattered...

:o

I was thinking that, too.

This annual also made me wonder, with recent events, how many around here know who Ace is?

[Themanofbat]

This annual also made me wonder, with recent events, how many around here know who Ace is?

Man... I bet the value of those two Annuals just shot up in price... :wow: :wow: :wow:

:yay:

[iloveclones]

I thought those were soooo goofy and lame when they came out. I have to admit, I'm a little nostalgic. Maybe I'll go and read them tonight...

[Kitsune]

I was thinking that, too.

This annual also made me wonder, with recent events, how many around here know who Ace is?

Ace is the bathound. :D

[Themanofbat]

Ace is the bathound. :wwot:

The Bat Hound was definitely the better "Ace"...

:o

[TheCorpulent1]

Frehley is still the best one. :oldrazz:

Although McCloud comes close...

[Kitsune]

The Bat Hound was definitely the better "Ace"...

:o

American Ace?

[farmernudie]

I liked the Ace Annuals...at the time...actually....want to go re-read....now...

[Superunknown]

since this Annual is supposed to continue in ASM, is it coming after the "American Son" arc in (ASM #599) And if that's right, then should ASM #599 have come out this week, if they dropped this Annual on us and tell us to follow it up in ASM?

Maybe it's late because they need to print up more of the Richard Nixon variant that I've heard rumors of?

:woot:

[farmernudie]

Maybe they will bring Ace back....with all this Michael JAckson stuff going on in the media.

Ace used to make me think of Mike. :yay::csad:

I am trying to remember, i've got the issues...but what happened to Ace in Ace ll...??

[Spider-ManHero12]

I stop by. I'm mostly a lurker there. Probably if they decide to do something with him ever again, I may start commenting. Well, they are doing that Scarlet Spider story in the fall.

[Tron Bonne]

Maybe it's late because they need to print up more of the Richard Nixon variant that I've heard rumors of?

It's not a rumor. It's one of the many 'decades' variants Marvel is doing. It's basically the Obama cover with Nixon instead. It's a 1 in 10 variant though, so you'll probably have to pay extra for it

[Spider-Jay420]

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x187/spider-jay420/27813new_storyimage5348287_full.jpg

[Spider-Jay420]

I can't stop laughing at 70's Spidey :woot::woot::woot::hehe:

[Themanofbat]

since this Annual is supposed to continue in ASM, is it coming after the "American Son" arc in (ASM #599) And if that's right, then should ASM #599 have come out this week, if they dropped this Annual on us and tell us to follow it up in ASM?

Maybe it's late because they need to print up more of the Richard Nixon variant that I've heard rumors of?

:woot:

I believe it continues in a 2 issue story in ASM #606/607...

It'll be around September or October...

:yay:

[iloveclones]

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x187/spider-jay420/27813new_storyimage5348287_full.jpg

Awwwwwesome........


I wonder if they're going to show the missing 18 panels of Amazing.

[Captain Useless]

The clone saga had a lot of crappy moments, especially at the end, but it's nice to see that they're finally adressing it (without making a joke about how bad it was)
I always liked Ben Reilly, I thought he was a good character.

[Spider-Jay420]

Ben was cool for a while. I think if they didn't try to make the swap, he would've been more excepted. We'll see.

They're rewriting the Clone Saga this fall, aren't they? Maybe the Scarlet Spider will stick around for a bit.

[kguillou]

I hate to be the pessimist here guys, but Marvel's not bringing Ben back. They're not. They're just gonna tease us with the possibility of bringing him back for a while. Thats how marvel does things these days, leading the reader in one direction and then going the complete opposite direction at the last minute.

[Tron Bonne]

Meh, I won't be surprised either way. If DC's going to bring Barry Allen back I'm pretty sure any 'Well this isn't happening' is totally off the table. I'm pretty impartial either way, but I just really won't be surprised with either outcome

[Superunknown]

Re-writing the Clone Saga? There's going to be a Scarlet-Spider story this Fall? So this isn't just wishful thinking for Ben Reilly fans, this is really happening???

[TheCorpulent1]

I think there's a mini-series coming out that's supposed to show the Clone Saga the way it was originally intended, before editorial decided to stretch it out and use it as a means of replacing Peter.

[Eros]

I think there's a mini-series coming out that's supposed to show the Clone Saga the way it was originally intended, before editorial decided to stretch it out and use it as a means of replacing Peter.

thats like releasing the directors cut of a bad movie.

[TheCorpulent1]

Worked wonders for Daredevil, supposedly.

[Superunknown]

I just skipped over to Newsarama and read the interview with Guggenheim. Looks like he was very, very careful not to give anything away about this story. But I'd hardly call Ben Reilly a "semi-beloved" charcter... I think that's out of touch with what many SM readers think of him.

They've pimped out figures of him even after his death and in some of the Spidey games (the non-movie ones that came out for the PS) since then also. And their running Spider-Girl since what? 1998 or 99'? which is really a continuation of the Clone Saga anyway...

But yet, they refused to bring back Ben, when in the past 10 years they could have been writing great stories with Ben instead of running Spider-Girl (not to knock the book though) I'd really like to be a fly on the wall at Marvel's offices. Sorry guys, this is turning into a rant, I think I'll stop now... :woot:

[TheCorpulent1]

Eh, I don't begrudge Marvel for not bringing him back earlier (if indeed they're bringing him back now). The Clone Saga was a disaster for them and they had to distance themselves from it to get people to buy back into the Spider-Man franchise.

[Spider-ManHero12]

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x187/spider-jay420/27813new_storyimage5348287_full.jpg Lol, awesome!

[SpideyInATree]

Eh, I don't begrudge Marvel for not bringing him back earlier (if indeed they're bringing him back now). The Clone Saga was a disaster for them and they had to distance themselves from it to get people to buy back into the Spider-Man franchise.

Agreed. However, it was not as big as a disaster as some of the other storylines that came out after the Clone Saga. Examples: Sins Past and "The Other". I am a Spider reader the was actually ENJOYING the Clone Saga. The only thing that it suffered from was that they drug it out so much that they almost buried the damn book in the process. It also brought back Spider-Man's most deadly enemy, Norman Osborn. Who is like the cat's pajamas right now.

But I don't see them bringing Reilly back, after reading Annual # 36, but it's good that they are acknowledging it in the current Spidey continuity which I think they have only done like twice before since the Clone Saga ended. But if he does come back I hope it's a very good explanation and not something like "Dr. Doom farted and Ben Reilly came back to life".

But that aside I am very much enjoying the American Son arc currently going on and looking forward to the return of Doc Ock. However, I am getting a case of Norman Osborn oversaturation. I am hoping when this stuff is all over and they finally expose Osborn that they give the character a break for a while.

[TheCorpulent1]

I meant a sales disaster. The Clone Saga still brought on the biggest mass exodus of Spider-Man readers, didn't it? People may have hated "Sins Past" and "The Other," but they didn't jump ship in the kind of numbers they did for the Clone Saga.

[iloveclones]

I think that readership loss has always been mis-read, both by Marvel and the fans. The Clone Saga actually increased readership initially, at a time when Comics in general where dropping. When it ended, sales were going to go down no matter the outcome. It was an artificial high, and when it dropped back to the baseline of "general comics readership", it looked a lot worse than it was.

[TheCorpulent1]

Probably true, but Marvel's perception of readership is all that really counts. When you get right down to it, sales pay for the production of the comics so they're paramount. I wish the system worked differently every time a great comic gets canceled, but it's the system we're stuck with.

[kguillou]

I actually started reading Spiderman during the clone saga, i was only like 7-8 years old, i had no idea what was going on and my knowledge of spiderman only extended as far as what the 90's cartoon taught me. I was so confused as to what was going on but i loved it and instantly fell in love with Ben reilly.

[iloveclones]

Probably true, but Marvel's perception of readership is all that really counts. When you get right down to it, sales pay for the production of the comics so they're paramount. I wish the system worked differently every time a great comic gets canceled, but it's the system we're stuck with.


Well, agree and disagree. I understand fans looking at those sales numbers and drawing a certain conclusion. But Marvel should be able to look at it with less bias (of course, I don't have to walk into my bosses or shareholders office and tell them that it's not as bad as it looks...)

To me, it would be like them looking at Spidey sales based solely on the Obama issue. Same situation: Comic Sales are decreasing (whether you blame it on the economy or not), yet, OMIGOD, Amazing is selling 500,000 copies. And then you look at it the next month and say "OMIGOD, Amazing is only selling 60,000 copies. It must be Obama. New Editorial Policy: No President's on Covers......except Nixon, because he always induces a chuckle."

[moraldeficiency]

You can't really compare a one issue trend to a point which is considered by most spider-man fans to be one of the all time worst era's in spider-man comics. They had peter parker beating his preggers wife, ben riley was the real peter parker and he ran around in a flash dance outfit. We all know a lot of long time readers left during that period and it took a long time to win them back. Now comics were dropping off at that time, I agree, but this added quite a few coffin nails to the book.

[imdaly]

It's funny. The first time I quit comics (for two years) was when the Clone Saga ended. I knew I couldn't afford to keep buying comics at that time but I was LOVING the Clone Saga and had to hold on to the end. :)

[iloveclones]

You can't really compare a one issue trend to a point which is considered by most spider-man fans to be one of the all time worst era's in spider-man comics. They had peter parker beating his preggers wife, ben riley was the real peter parker and he ran around in a flash dance outfit. We all know a lot of long time readers left during that period and it took a long time to win them back. Now comics were dropping off at that time, I agree, but this added quite a few coffin nails to the book.

Sure I can. I just did! :)

I wasn't addressing the controversy. Just trying to illustrate with a more recent example that the sales fall wasn't quite as straightforward as fans like to make it.

[Themanofbat]

It's funny. The first time I quit comics (for two years) was when the Clone Saga ended. I knew I couldn't afford to keep buying comics at that time but I was LOVING the Clone Saga and had to hold on to the end. :yay:

I quit at the same time as well...

I couldn't handle that Norman was responsible for ALL the bad things that had happened to Peter...

:whatever:

[TheCorpulent1]

I didn't quit during that period. I was acutely aware that the quality wasn't at the level it used to be in the '80s, when I started reading Spider-Man comics, but I was one of those dopes who kept reading in the hopes that it would get better.

[moraldeficiency]

I thought the osborn conclusion was about the only solution they could come up with to fix everything. A classic villian wasn't really dead, who's main motivation has been to **** with peter parker, it was that or spiderboy punches through dimensions or peter decides to make a deal with the devil, and that's just so much stupider than norman never really died.

[Eros]

I didn't quit during that period. I was acutely aware that the quality wasn't at the level it used to be in the '80s, when I started reading Spider-Man comics, but I was one of those dopes who kept reading in the hopes that it would get better.

80s spider-man was the second best era for the character since the 60s and early 70s. Ther thing is in the 90s, they tried to to overdue everything, and relied on shock value and popular one dimensional villians [Venom, carnage]. The Clone saga was and is a cauationary tale, essentially a comic book company takeing a popular character, and involving him in a immensly convoulted storyline, and then shocking the reader into beleiveing what the they thought was true, was merely another convoluted plot device.
Essentially speaking it was like a M. Night movie or something.

[SpideyInATree]

You can't really compare a one issue trend to a point which is considered by most spider-man fans to be one of the all time worst era's in spider-man comics. They had peter parker beating his preggers wife, ben riley was the real peter parker and he ran around in a flash dance outfit. We all know a lot of long time readers left during that period and it took a long time to win them back. Now comics were dropping off at that time, I agree, but this added quite a few coffin nails to the book.

Peter didn't "beat" his pregnant wife. In a fit of rage he accidentally back handed her and the fans had a cow. It was not the greatest moment in the history of Spider-Man but people definitely blow that out of proportion like he bloodied her and almost beat her to death.

Though long time readers have also stopped reading after the events of One More Day. Anytime they step out of the norm on the Spider-Man titles long time readers always leave and eventually jump back on. It's been a trend with Spider-Man for decades now.

[moraldeficiency]

He totally beat her. She was within arms reach and he was flailing, he's one of the smartest men on the planet he knew what could happen. It was one of the ****tiest moments I've ever read and I burnt the issue and stopped reading till Day of the Goblins.

I've also stopped after OMD, that was actually worse. I'll jump back on when they fix the mess and make him a hero again, that's the trend I'm going with.

[TheCorpulent1]

To put it in perspective, it's virtually the same thing that happened with Hank Pym and the Wasp. At least Peter isn't known almost exclusively for hitting his wife.

[SpideyInATree]

He totally beat her. She was within arms reach and he was flailing, he's one of the smartest men on the planet he knew what could happen. It was one of the ****tiest moments I've ever read and I burnt the issue and stopped reading till Day of the Goblins.

I've also stopped after OMD, that was actually worse. I'll jump back on when they fix the mess and make him a hero again, that's the trend I'm going with.

Just because you are smart or of high intelligence doesn't mean you don't get angry. And when anyone is angry you are not thinking clearly.

[TheCorpulent1]

You do realize you're justifying Peter hitting his wife with the reason, "He was angry at the time," right?

[kguillou]

I read the issue where Hank Pym hit wasp, man it was barely anything at all. I was expecting this huge beat down from what everybody says, but it wasnt. bad.at.all. He smacked her and from the way it was drawn, it didnt even look like it hurt.

[TheCorpulent1]

It's more the act itself than the damage that matters. Point is, both Peter and Hank had severe emotional breakdowns due to something or other and hit their spouse. The difference is that, for some reason, it's stuck with Hank for decades as his defining moment while Peter got off pretty much scot-free. That's always bugged me.

[WolfCypher]

Peter hit MJ during the Clone Saga. As bad as hitting MJ was, there was so much bull**** to hate in the Clone Saga, you can't just stick with one thing.

Look, Hank has to live with the stigma of one comic book incident, while Spider-Man has to live with a multi-year long "event". I think Hank got off easier by comparison.

[TheCorpulent1]

No one cares if a comic character has a bad story or two or even several years of bad stories. The characters bounce back. There's no way Hank can bounce back from hitting Jan. It looked like he might for a while in the '80s and '90s, but then Millar re-enacted the whole thing about a thousand times worse in The Ultimates and Johns, Bendis, et al. got ahold of him in the 616 universe, and now he's known for hitting Jan more than ever.

[WolfCypher]

Oh, people care. I still read posts from people hating the current BND Spidey.

Spidey is just big enough of an icon that the Clone Saga and what may be considered a bad direction in OMD/BND (depending on personal opinion) will never be able to hold him down. Once the Clone Saga ended, while people still (and continue to do so) *****ed about it, it felt like his hands were washed clean of it, so we mostly moved on.

But with Hank? I think you pretty much answered your own question. Hank's wife-slapping has been reference to enough that it defines his character now, like Hal Jordan's schtick as Parallax. Writers & fans just choose to remember Hank for the one bad thing he did instead of all the good. He's not Spidey, Superman, Batman, or Wolverine. These are characters that can f*** up or have horrible status-quo changing events and still remain favorable in our eyes.

Personally, I wish people would rag on Hank for creating Ultron instead.

[Themanofbat]

Yeah...

You all heard Tom...

IF THE CLONE SAGA MINI-SERIES SELLS WELL, IT WILL MEAN THE RETURN OF A BEN REILLY SPIDER COMIC IN THE 616 UNIVERSE...

http://www.spidermancrawlspace.com/wordpress/category/podcast/

:up:

:yay:

[SpideyInATree]

You do realize you're justifying Peter hitting his wife with the reason, "He was angry at the time," right?

I am not justifying anything. Nobody should hit their wife and it was a stupid point in the Spider-Man books. I was just saying because someone is of high intelligence does not mean they can't get angry and do things that are stupid in that moment of anger.

[moraldeficiency]

And here I thought overcoming personal faults for the good of others was kinda what makes a hero a hero.

[WolfCypher]

Yeah...

You all heard Tom...

IF THE CLONE SAGA MINI-SERIES SELLS WELL, IT WILL MEAN THE RETURN OF A BEN REILLY SPIDER COMIC IN THE 616 UNIVERSE...

http://www.spidermancrawlspace.com/wordpress/category/podcast/

:up:

:yay:

You are, without a doubt, the most optimistic Spidey fan I have ever met.

I envy you.

[SpideyInATree]

Someone has to be optimistic around here on these boards! :wow:

[Tron Bonne]

No, boo to optimism with Spider-Man, boo I say

[iloveclones]

Yeah...

You all heard Tom...

IF THE CLONE SAGA MINI-SERIES SELLS WELL, IT WILL MEAN THE RETURN OF A BEN REILLY SPIDER COMIC IN THE 616 UNIVERSE...

http://www.spidermancrawlspace.com/wordpress/category/podcast/

:up:

:yay:


Great News. I'll buy me up a whole stack of 'em....

[Themanofbat]

You are, without a doubt, the most optimistic Spidey fan I have ever met.

I envy you.

Thanks...

:yay:

[spideyboy_1111]

Peter didn't "beat" his pregnant wife. In a fit of rage he accidentally back handed her and the fans had a cow. It was not the greatest moment in the history of Spider-Man but people definitely blow that out of proportion like he bloodied her and almost beat her to death.

Though long time readers have also stopped reading after the events of One More Day. Anytime they step out of the norm on the Spider-Man titles long time readers always leave and eventually jump back on. It's been a trend with Spider-Man for decades now.

well i look at it this way... Hank Pym and Peter's hits were pretty much the same... yet Pym is called the wife beater, and Peter is not. :whatever:

[Themanofbat]

Yeah, the Hank backhander (I think it was Avengers #212) was pretty lame-o at the time, but he sure as heck got a bad rap for it...

:csad:

[hippie_hunter]

Yeah, the Hank backhander (I think it was Avengers #212) was pretty lame-o at the time, but he sure as heck got a bad rap for it...

:csad:

I own that issue. Poor Hank :csad:

[Dark Victory]

Picked up Annual #36. It was decent, imo. I don't think brining the clone saga back is a great idea. I asked my comic store manager about it and he said he's not even going to order it.

[Themanofbat]

Picked up Annual #36. It was decent, imo. I don't think brining the clone saga back is a great idea. I asked my comic store manager about it and he said he's not even going to order it.

That's a dumb maneuver by any shop owner...

Even if he thinks that nobody's going to buy it, you order a minimum of 3 copies to generate some interest...

How these people keep their shops running is beyond me...

:huh: :huh: :huh:

[spideyboy_1111]

That's a dumb maneuver by any shop owner...

Even if he thinks that nobody's going to buy it, you order a minimum of 3 copies to generate some interest...

How these people keep their shops running is beyond me...

:huh: :huh: :huh:

i agree... the owners personal taste isn't everyone's. glad i go to a semi known comic shop.... they order plenty of everything, and they still sell out within like 2-3 days of all the big stuff.

[Dark Victory]

That's a dumb maneuver by any shop owner...

Even if he thinks that nobody's going to buy it, you order a minimum of 3 copies to generate some interest...

How these people keep their shops running is beyond me...

:huh: :huh: :huh:


Hey, you don't know the manager. He orders a ****load of independant and mainstream comics and if you want something he doesn't have, he'll order under request. And at his store, books like Hellblazer outsell Amazing Spider-Man. After seeing that nobody bought Spider-Man 2099 and talking to a lot Amazing Spider-Man fans who weren't interested he's decided not to order it. Check out the store...

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff113/bakbak5/evanston2.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff113/bakbak5/evanston1.jpg

[WolfCypher]

What's the name of that store?

[Dark Victory]

What's the name of that store?


Comix Revolution

[spideyboy_1111]

it seriously amazes me that any shop would sell more hellblazer then spider-man...


i go to hi-de-ho comics in santa monica... it looks like you're classic hometown comic store... but due to it's location it's pretty well known... celebs will stop in occasionally even.

not sure if there's pics... but here's there site
http://hidehocomics.com/

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah...

You all heard Tom...

IF THE CLONE SAGA MINI-SERIES SELLS WELL, IT WILL MEAN THE RETURN OF A BEN REILLY SPIDER COMIC IN THE 616 UNIVERSE...

http://www.spidermancrawlspace.com/wordpress/category/podcast/

:up:

:yay:
I'd read that. Guess I'll change my plans and pick up that Clone Saga mini after all.

[Themanofbat]

Hey, you don't know the manager. He orders a ****load of independant and mainstream comics and if you want something he doesn't have, he'll order under request. And at his store, books like Hellblazer outsell Amazing Spider-Man. After seeing that nobody bought Spider-Man 2099 and talking to a lot Amazing Spider-Man fans who weren't interested he's decided not to order it.

I wasn't taking a cheap shot at the guy... I just thought it was weird that he wouldn't order any copies...

I ran a LCS back in the mid-90's for about 3 years, and I brought in tons of stuff (especially the indie stuff), and while some of it sat on the rack for time, you get to know what you're regulars like and you push stuff...

Even if the guy only has 10 Spider-Man readers, you'd think that at least one of them would be interested, hence ordering only 3 copies... (cuz the guy will recommend it to someone else)

And if HellBlazer (an amazing book that I've been getting off the rack since issue#1) outsells ASM... that's a mind-blowing fact... considering that on a issue average, ASM typically outsells HellBlazer 6 to 1...

:huh: :huh: :huh:

Cheers...

:yay:

[Tron Bonne]

Well, he said that the manager willing orders things on request. I'm sure if someone asked him about the mini before or after it wouldn't be a problem to order them a copy. If the guy's really that in touch with his customer base and thinks he may not be able to sell it then I can understand not ordering.

My LCS has similar issues. Sometimes he doesn't even bother ordering some of the Vertigo and indie stuff because no one expresses interest in it and he's had situations where he's not sold a single issue of those comics in a good months time. He always has the previews catalogs out for people to glance through, too.

Of course, this shop is a lot smaller and doesn't have a very big customer-base either

[TheCorpulent1]

My shop generally orders mainstream and indie stuff, but not some of the really indie stuff. But he's willing to try everything out, basically. I mentioned the Moonstone Phantom series to him and he ordered a few copies of the first issue to see how it would do. I don't think it sold well because I'm pretty sure he's just ordering for my pull list at this point, but at least he tries to put some off-the-radar stuff out there from time to time.

[Dark Victory]

IGN posted a preview of #600.

http://media.comics.ign.com/media/740/740875/img_6942685.html

Too bad I'll be in Canada for two weeks and won't be able to pick this up 'til August 3rd.

[spideyboy_1111]

IGN posted a preview of #600.

http://media.comics.ign.com/media/740/740875/img_6942685.html

Too bad I'll be in Canada for two weeks and won't be able to pick this up 'til August 3rd.

nice, i luvs me some madame web!

[Themanofbat]

IGN posted a preview of #600.

http://media.comics.ign.com/media/740/740875/img_6942685.html

Too bad I'll be in Canada for two weeks and won't be able to pick this up 'til August 3rd.

Buy a copy in Canada... :up:

:yay:

[Dark Victory]

Buy a copy in Canada... :up:

:yay:

I wish I could, but I'll be on a small, private island for my stay.

[Themanofbat]

East Coast?

[spideyboy_1111]

sooo does #600 come out tomorrow or not? the Marvel website has it listed on the 22nd now...

[SpideyInATree]

# 599 comes out tomorrow

# 600 is 22nd, it got delayed, obviously.

I believe # 601 got delayed as well so who knows.

Maybe it has to do with them adding another Spidey book. They are doing Web of Spider-Man again. :o

[Spider-Jay420]

Web of Spider-Man? Really? Cool.

[spideyboy_1111]

# 599 comes out tomorrow

# 600 is 22nd, it got delayed, obviously.

I believe # 601 got delayed as well so who knows.

Maybe it has to do with them adding another Spidey book. They are doing Web of Spider-Man again. :o

*whew* saves me $5 this week :)

there bringing back web? ... as long as it's once a month, or amazing goes bi rather then tri-monthly ill be fine with that... marvels price raising has really forced me to cut back on some stuff...

[Tron Bonne]

Yeah, that's tricky. I like Spidey and all, but I'm not sure I really want to pick up another ongoing of his when the other one I get is coming out three times a month.

[SpideyInATree]

*whew* saves me $5 this week :)

there bringing back web? ... as long as it's once a month, or amazing goes bi rather then tri-monthly ill be fine with that... marvels price raising has really forced me to cut back on some stuff...

Web of Spider-Man is taking the place of Spider-Man Family. And Web will have stories focusing on the Spider-Man villains and will tie in with the Amazing title. And, of course, they will be continuing Spider-Girl in the book as well.

J.M. DeMatteis will be writing and Tom Defalco, as always, will be writing the Spider-Girl part.

[spideyboy_1111]

Web of Spider-Man is taking the place of Spider-Man Family. And Web will have stories focusing on the Spider-Man villains and will tie in with the Amazing title. And, of course, they will be continuing Spider-Girl in the book as well.

J.M. DeMatteis will be writing and Tom Defalco, as always, will be writing the Spider-Girl part.

that sucks :( the title fits though, and i'd like to read about the villains... but i can tell already that means web will be a $4-5 book... so sadly ill have to pass.

[Tron Bonne]

Do we have a price tag yet for Web?

[spideyboy_1111]

Do we have a price tag yet for Web?

well.... it will at least be $4... i can guarantee that.

[Tron Bonne]

What makes you so sure?

[venom892]

3.99.said so in the newsarama article.

[Tron Bonne]

Oh, is that going to the average price for each issue or just the first?

[SpideyInATree]

Each issue and the first issue will focus on Kaine.

[Tron Bonne]

Ok, last one, do we know yet if these issues are going to have extra pages or is this one of Marvel's books that are standard size but are getting price increases because.....well, cause?

[SpideyInATree]

I don't know about that one. I just know that I am saving a dollar with them replacing Family with Web so it is good things for me. Plus Mayday's story continues!

[spideyboy_1111]

What makes you so sure?

when books like Thor, Dark X-men, Dark Avengers, Uncanny and Captain america hit $4...so will spidey.

[spideyboy_1111]

each issue and the first issue will focus on kaine.

in continuity 616 kaine?

[Tron Bonne]

I don't know about that one. I just know that I am saving a dollar with them replacing Family with Web so it is good things for me. Plus Mayday's story continues!

I always wanted to pick up Family, especially when they added Mayday, but the price keep me away. If Amazing wasn't coming out thrice a month already I may have been more willing but always decided against it.

when books like Thor, Dark X-men, Dark Avengers, Uncanny and Captain america hit $4...so will spidey.

Well, if ASM hits the $3.99 price tag and is still on a thrice a month schedule I'll probably drop. I do enjoy Spidey and all but I personally don't think they're worth that price hike, and I'm trying to fight the standard $3.99 until the point where I basically have no choice.

If the book were Amazing (haha) all the time and, at the level of say Incredible Herc, I might think about it, but otherwise I may be out on that note

[SpideyInATree]

From what I read on the Marvel website about the Web of Spider-Man title it is going to be in continuity because those stories are supposed to tie in with the Amazing Spider-Man title. And then the second story in the book will be Spider-Girl.

[Tron Bonne]

So, it'll basically be a story of whatever importance, and the Mayday stories will be back-ups?

[spideyboy_1111]

From what I read on the Marvel website about the Web of Spider-Man title it is going to be in continuity because those stories are supposed to tie in with the Amazing Spider-Man title. And then the second story in the book will be Spider-Girl.

i really hope so... because i'd definitely buy the kaine issue... I'd really like to know where he's been all these years

[SpideyInATree]

So, it'll basically be a story of whatever importance, and the Mayday stories will be back-ups?

From what I got from the article at Marvel...Yes. I would put up a link but I am far too lazy to do that. :o

[Tron Bonne]

Ok, well now I'm not as opposed to that at all. As long as their good and carry on Spider-Girl's stories. I would probably be on that in a second if not for the fact that I'm plopping so much on ol'Spidey as is

[JustABill]

Well, American Son was overall, pretty much crap. Especially today's issue.

[Gamma Goliath]

What happened ?

[Dark Victory]

Well, American Son was overall, pretty much crap. Especially today's issue.


Wutchootalkingbout, foo'? Well, I liked this arc a lot, except for #597 which was kind of iffy.

[iloveclones]

What happened ?

JustaBill read a comic that he knew beforehand that he was going to dislike.......


Oh, you mean in the comic....

[Tron Bonne]

JustaBill read a comic that he knew beforehand that he was going to dislike.......

Or, they didn't like an arc that wasn't very good:up:

Wutchootalkingbout, foo'? Well, I liked this arc a lot, except for #597 which was kind of iffy.

Well, pure crap is a little too strong, but I haven't thought this arc was really all that good either. Just feels like they're pandering around until the big 600, and just in general very tacked on. Not to mention the twist that was both predictable and, in the end, overly pointless and will most likely go nowhere. Not as weak as the other two mini-events we had previously or anything, but still pretty weak in my opinion.

I've not read the last issue yet, but it'll have to be pretty awesome to change my opinion

[kguillou]

The solicit for 599 says Peter's identity gets revealed to someone, who is it?

[Themanofbat]

It's possible that it's Harry... though he says he didn't see his face... but he may have been lying...

I thought it was a good story... better than the previous "big" arcs... decent action, good characterization, and good art It read nicely, in my opinion... should be a nice read for the TPB people...

I dunno... I liked it.

:yay:

[Themanofbat]

Although I REALY enjoyed Dark Reign: Mr. Negative #2...:up:

Van Lente is quickly becoming one of my favorite writers... :word:

:yay:

[Tron Bonne]

It's possible that it's Harry... though he says he didn't see his face... but he may have been lying...

I thought it was a good story... better than the previous "big" arcs... decent action, good characterization, and good art It read nicely, in my opinion... should be a nice read for the TPB people...

I dunno... I liked it.

:yay:

Well, I mean I can totally agree to that, but that sets the bar to about half an inch from the floor or something. Just really hard not to jump over that.

:yay:

[kguillou]

I havent read 599 yet but so far the arc's been quite good. My only complaint is the different artists. I would have preferred if Jiminez could've drawn the whole thing but oh well..

[JustABill]

Or, they didn't like an arc that wasn't very good:up

It is true. I just didn't like this arc. Terrible and felt like it went no where. Way to jump to conclusions idiots. :rolleyes:

[Themanofbat]

Well, I mean I can totally agree to that, but that sets the bar to about half an inch from the floor or something. Just really hard not to jump over that.

:yay:

I'm finding that I enjoy the "in between" regular stories a LOT moreso than the "big named arcs"...

:huh: :huh: :huh:

Though this one had some nice closure between the Osborn's that has been a loooooong time coming.

:yay:

[Tron Bonne]

I agree for the most part, these little mini-events like this one, CA and NWTD have been the weakest of BND. Except that dreadful Freak stuff

[WolfCypher]

CA?

*filler*

[Tron Bonne]

Character Assassin. Probably the second worst arc so far in BND. There is no out ****ting the **** of Freak

[kguillou]

Hence the reason Bob Gale got booted off the book lol.

[Drz]

Can someone explain the ending for a moron (thats me!)? I got abit confused, i mean:
did Harry just forgive his girlfriend that their baby is actually going to be a brother or what? It seemed Harry got abit nuts towards the end

[Themanofbat]

Can someone explain the ending for a moron (thats me!)? I got abit confused, i mean:
did Harry just forgive his girlfriend that their baby is actually going to be a brother or what? It seemed Harry got abit nuts towards the end

No... I was confused at first as well because I thought it was Harry (damn those haircuts :cmad: :cmad: :cmad:...

It was Norman talking to the baby... read it again thinking it's Norman, and it's a lot creepier.

Hope that helps...

:yay:

[Drz]

Lol i feel even dumber now. :P Thanks dude! =)

[JustABill]

I got confused as to who Norah saw on the video.

[iloveclones]

She saw herself, I think. The implication being that Normie knows who she is, what she was up to, and how to contact her. Oh, and if you print anything about me, you're dead. You'll notice how she backed off of what she was telling Ben over the phone.

[JewishHobbit]

I'll simply ask, did anything happen in the final issue that would somehow lead to Harry's "American Son" persona influencing other books, such as Dark Avengers? Or will it not be mentioned anywhere else?

[JustABill]

Nope. It's gone. He was American Son for all of one very short fight scene with his father.

[JewishHobbit]

That's all I need to know. I probably won't pick up the last two issues then. I'm still debating the Clone stuff though. Probably not, but I am a huge Clone Saga fan... so it's possible I could change my mind last minute, or a few issues in if it looks interesting.


Also, random question.... with this whole reversing Spider-Man about 20 years.... whatever happened to Liz Allen-Osborn and her son Normie? I'd assume she'd be back with Harry after he returned from the dead but I try this arc and he ends up with some Goblin chick instead. Has that been dealt with yet? Or did Mephisto wipe away Harry's marriage too?

[Themanofbat]

I got confused as to who Norah saw on the video.

She saw herself, I think. The implication being that Normie knows who she is, what she was up to, and how to contact her. Oh, and if you print anything about me, you're dead. You'll notice how she backed off of what she was telling Ben over the phone.

Yep... but first of all, she saw her "security guard" boyfriend whom she got the cards from to begin with... then it flashed to video of her sneaking around...

[Themanofbat]

Nope. It's gone. He was American Son for all of one very short fight scene with his father.

That's all I need to know. I probably won't pick up the last two issues then. I'm still debating the Clone stuff though. Probably not, but I am a huge Clone Saga fan... so it's possible I could change my mind last minute, or a few issues in if it looks interesting.


Also, random question.... with this whole reversing Spider-Man about 20 years.... whatever happened to Liz Allen-Osborn and her son Normie? I'd assume she'd be back with Harry after he returned from the dead but I try this arc and he ends up with some Goblin chick instead. Has that been dealt with yet? Or did Mephisto wipe away Harry's marriage too?

...sigh... :csad:

Nothing's been retconed other than the marriage never happened.

Lil' Normie still exists... his father is Harry Osborn, whom he fathered while married to Liz Allen. When Harry "died", Liz collected a huge life insurance settlement which she used to help her step-brother Mark (the Molten Man) to keep from being in pain all the time... when Harry returned, the insurance company gave her a hard time and wanted their funds back, thus making her life that much more difficult... obviously, there's resentment from Liz towards Harry for letting her think "he was dead"... the marriage is officially "dissolved" when a partner dies, and I think Harry briefly remarried in Europe, thus getting rid of any hope for these two being "married"... not to mention that when dealing with her brother, methinks Liz is just sick and tired of the Osborn/Goblin legacy that follows her around... but it all happened.

And speaking of the last part of American Son, if you like to see a "finally" moment in the Harry/Norman dynamic, you could certainly pick up the last issue...

However, with your recent posts about cost cutting, I'd understand if you didn't... maybe read them in the store.

:yay:

[JewishHobbit]

I plan on skimming it in the store but since it won't go over into anything else Avengers related I won't be buying it. In my mind the whole Osborn tension thing was resolved in Spectacular Spider-Man 200 when Harry chose not to follow in his father's footsteps and died saving Peter's life. Everything since then is just a big What IF? for me. I can't even look at Harry in this story without feeling like he's artificial. It's very distracting.

[Themanofbat]

I plan on skimming it in the store but since it won't go over into anything else Avengers related I won't be buying it. In my mind the whole Osborn tension thing was resolved in Spectacular Spider-Man 200 when Harry chose not to follow in his father's footsteps and died saving Peter's life. Everything since then is just a big What IF? for me. I can't even look at Harry in this story without feeling like he's artificial. It's very distracting.

I've felt the same way about Norman since Peter Parker: Spider-Man #75...

I've warmed up to him since...

:yay:

[JewishHobbit]

Okay, so maybe in 10 years I'll finally come around.... of course, by then things will be dramatically differant again and this will all have been just a bad dream. Maybe I'll be lucky and we'll have learned that Ben was the real Spider-Man all along :)

[iloveclones]

Although I REALY enjoyed Dark Reign: Mr. Negative #2...:up:

Van Lente is quickly becoming one of my favorite writers... :word:

:yay:


I loved Spidey's internal monologue: a warped version of his origin/life....

[Gamma Goliath]

I picked up 599, and I gotta say its pretty good, I like the way norman got 'handled'.

[SpideyInATree]

Although I REALY enjoyed Dark Reign: Mr. Negative #2...:up:

Van Lente is quickly becoming one of my favorite writers... :word:

:yay:

Yeah, that Mr. Negative mini has been a little surprise.

I'm all for a Negative Spider-Man title. :o

And another surprising Dark Reign title I liked was the Zodiac one. Very creepy but damn it's good to see some real super villainy up in this piece.

[SpideyInATree]

And I enjoyed the conclusion to the American Son story arc a lot as well. Already posted what I thought over in the Spider-Man forums, but short version....

Good to see some touching story between Peter and Harry and the whole "brothers" thing. Very VERY creepy part near the end between Norman and his new Goblin princess and Goblin baby, heh. Some very good momentum going into # 600, looking forward to how Ock gets back into the story here.

I was reading that a lot of Spider-Man's old rogues are going to be popping up in the future after # 600 so I am looking forward to all of that. Also looking very VERY forward to the new Web of Spider-Man title which the first issue will be featuring Kaine, in the ORIGINAL MARVEL UNIVERSE! Oh yeah!

[Tron Bonne]

http://marvel.com/news/comicstories.8777.FIRST_LOOK~colon~_October_2009_S pidey_Previews

Advance preview of October Spidey solicits.

In the main book it looks as if they will be starting the Ben Reilly stuff. I have my doubts that anything significant will really come from it, but we'll see where it goes.

Also seems as if their doing a Spider-Man 1602 as the 'last chapter' of the 1602 saga, little late there, but whatever.

Also solicits for Clone Saga #2, Spider-Woman #2, Web Of Spider-Man #1, New Ways To Live #2 and Marvel Adventures Spider-Man #56

[Spider-Jay420]

Doesn't sound like Ben is gonna even appear, much less stick around. Interesting though.

I'm curious about the Clona Saga too. Original writers and what their original intention was? Nice.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, I'll pick up the Clone Saga mini. I always liked Ben Reilly, even if they got his Scarlet Spider costume wrong on that cover (sweatshirt, not wifebeater, artist-guy).

[JewishHobbit]

I figured I'd pick that up but not the Who is Ben Reilly arc from Amazing Spider-Man. But since my store was down to their last copy of the Annual that began it I bought it on a whim. I figure it'll give it a shot and see where it goes for Ben's sake.

[iloveclones]

Yeah, I'll pick up the Clone Saga mini. I always liked Ben Reilly, even if they got his Scarlet Spider costume wrong on that cover (sweatshirt, not wifebeater, artist-guy).

The fabled lost member of the Village People...Ben Reilly.

[Themanofbat]

I figured I'd pick that up but not the Who is Ben Reilly arc from Amazing Spider-Man. But since my store was down to their last copy of the Annual that began it I bought it on a whim. I figure it'll give it a shot and see where it goes for Ben's sake.

Every time I see your avatar, I 'm humming "Thriller" in my head... :cmad: :cmad: :cmad:

:o

[TheCorpulent1]

I just hear "WOO!" really loud in my head.
The fabled lost member of the Village People...Ben Reilly.
lulz, it does look pretty bad. :csad:

[Themanofbat]

The fabled lost member of the Village People...Ben Reilly.

Hah... :woot: :woot: :woot:

:up:

[JewishHobbit]

Every time I see your avatar, I 'm humming "Thriller" in my head... :cmad: :cmad: :cmad:

:o

You're welcome :)

[Kitsune]

I've felt the same way about Norman since Peter Parker: Spider-Man #75...

I've warmed up to him since...

:yay:

That makes one of us.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, I still wish Norman were dead.

[Kitsune]

...sigh... :csad:

Nothing's been retconed other than the marriage never happened.



Actually the marriage happened, but no one remember it happened.

[JewishHobbit]

Actually the marriage happened, but no one remember it happened.

:rolleyes:

[sdc10]

Actually the marriage happened, but no one remember it happened.

No the marriage never happened, in the first BND issue is has a spread page explaining what has changed. It says Peter and MJ dated but it didnt work out and they broke up. They were never married.

[TheCorpulent1]

Unless they were and Mephisto changed everything from the moment in OMD forward, which would be a memory rewrite more than a reality rewrite. Technicalities FTW!

I don't know why I'm contributing to this. :o

[Themanofbat]

Go back to your Thor threads.... :cmad: :cmad: :cmad:

:yay:

[bryanss3]

I don't know if anyone has brought this up on here or over in the Spidey forums, but did anyone notice in New Avengers 54 what Hellstrom says to Spidey?

Hellstrom is ranting about the balance of good and evil to Brother Voodoo and kinda ranting about the something evil coming soon. then

Spidey: You should right greeting cards, really.
Hellstrom: And you better be ready to pay for all your sins.

I'm pretty sure thats the first magical character Spidey's interacted with that's said anything remotely acknowledging OMD. I just thought I'd bring that up for everyone saying Peter Parker hasn't had any consequences for OMD. there will be repercussions for him eventually. We obviously don't know when it could be in 2 years or 10 years from now, but it will happen eventually.

Well anyways I'm excited for 600

[Tron Bonne]

What did Spider-Man say after that?

[bryanss3]

Spidey: Alrighty then.

I can't tell if it was meant to be funny or show Spidey is oblivious to whats he's talking about. I'm leaning more towards oblivious.

[Tron Bonne]

I don't know, hard to tell if it's that something of real meaning or if Bendis was doing the whole 'wink at the camera' thing to readers. Obviously something will have to be addressed about the whole situation later, I don't think anyone has really argued against that, but obviously the current crew is in no hurry to do so. I personally won't be surprised if it goes unaddressed until a post-Joey Q Marvel

[JewishHobbit]

Hmm... that was an interesting read. I totally didn't think about that when I read that conversation. Makes me like it a bit more, as at the time I just thought it was stupid.

[bryanss3]

I just meant it more towards people saying that were no consequences for his actions. They just haven't happened yet.

[JewishHobbit]

You're assuming. That line could have nothing at all to do with OMD.

[Tron Bonne]

Well, whether it did or did not, as some point something is going to happen with it down the road. I really do believe something will come of it eventually.

[bryanss3]

i don't know something about the son of Satan telling Spider-Man he'll pay for his sins... why would that have anything to do with OMD?

[Tron Bonne]

Yeah, I mean that does obviously lay reference to OMD. Unless Spidey has done something morally ambiguous in NA that I don't know about. I wouldn't know, I haven't touched that books in years

[bryanss3]

There is this rarely used writing technique called foreshadowing. I heard about it once in high school I don't think writers use it anymore especially not comic writers.

I'm super sarcastic today like its my super power.

Teardrop your icon is Rose from SF right.

[Tron Bonne]

There is this rarely used writing technique called foreshadowing. I heard about it once in high school I don't think writers use it anymore especially not comic writers.

Yeah...but this is Bendis...writing superhero comics.

I'm sure he's making some reference though. Even if he's clueless as to what will eventually happen he probably recognizes that eventually something will happen, or maybe he actually does know something.

Teardrop your icon is Rose from SF right.

Yes, it is

[Themanofbat]

Yeah...but this is Bendis...writing superhero comics.

I'm sure he's making some reference though. Even if he's clueless as to what will eventually happen he probably recognizes that eventually something will happen, or maybe he actually does know something.

The only thing that adds some credibilty to all of this is the fact that both books (ASM & NA) are under the umbrella of Tom Brevoort...

[bryanss3]

He might I like to think Marvel have a collective idea of whats going on with there major characters. I really wish Bendis wasn't on the Avengers books though. I hate his sit around talking for 10 pages style. maybe it would seem different if the New Avengers were at an important looking table instead of a round table in a kitchen eating Chinese food with Luke Cage's baby in a high chair sitting with them. Or have Reed co-write. that guy has been surprising me lately in Ms. Marvel, Timestorm 2009/2099, and Sinister Spider-Man.

[Tron Bonne]

The only thing that adds some credibilty to all of this is the fact that both books (ASM & NA) are under the umbrella of Tom Brevoort...

I don't know about that. I mean, like I said, Bendis may know something, but I think it's fair to say that is it pretty obvious that something, somewhen, somewhere down the line somebody is going to do something with it. So he may just be winking to the fans in 'Yeah, we know it don't we guys' kind of deal.

[SpideyInATree]

I don't know if anyone has brought this up on here or over in the Spidey forums, but did anyone notice in New Avengers 54 what Hellstrom says to Spidey?

Hellstrom is ranting about the balance of good and evil to Brother Voodoo and kinda ranting about the something evil coming soon. then

Spidey: You should right greeting cards, really.
Hellstrom: And you better be ready to pay for all your sins.

I'm pretty sure thats the first magical character Spidey's interacted with that's said anything remotely acknowledging OMD. I just thought I'd bring that up for everyone saying Peter Parker hasn't had any consequences for OMD. there will be repercussions for him eventually. We obviously don't know when it could be in 2 years or 10 years from now, but it will happen eventually.

Well anyways I'm excited for 600

Interesting pick up, man. I remember reading it and thinking that it was Bendis poking at One More Day but now that you mention it and now that the conversation has started...could be a foreshadowing of things to come in the coming year for Spider-Man.

[bryanss3]

I doubt in the coming year. probably more like in the next 3-4 years.

[stillanerd]

Well folks, since this issue comes out tomorrow, I thought I'd tease you folks with some hints. That's right, I know what is going to happen in this issue, some of it for about five days now. So with that, here's a few teases if you wish to see them:

*Daredevil isn't the only superhero who makes a guest appearance in the main story.
*That Doc Ock's master plan could be familiar for some viewers, and that the cover for Alex Ross's cover showing Spidey fighting six tentacles--it's NOT an artistic error and there's a good reason why.
*That the wedding that takes place in this issue could potentially have an real impact on Peter Parker.
*Remember how some folks have been complaining about how since Peter Parker is now single it should make him available for potential love interests? Well...lets just say some folks are going to be happy and some folks are going to be really, REALLY mad. And not just the those who don't like BND but even those who do.
*And, there's a scene that is probably going to be interpreted by the anti-OMD/BND faction as either a real slap in the face...or a sign of hope.

[Tron Bonne]

*And, there's a scene that is probably going to be interpreted by the anti-OMD/BND faction as either a real slap in the face...or a sign of hope.

If that means what I assume it means then I doubt anybody from the anti-OMD/BND camp is going to interpreted it as anything but negative.

[Gamma Goliath]

Man, I've got to wait till thursday to get it.

[stillanerd]

If that means what I assume it means then I doubt anybody from the anti-OMD/BND camp is going to interpreted it as anything but negative.

Just out of curiosity, what is your assumption?

[Tron Bonne]

That she is either engaged in a 'serious' relationship with another person (maybe even a known supporting character) or married or some variation of that

[stillanerd]

That she is either engaged in a 'serious' relationship with another person (maybe even a known supporting character) or married or some variation of that

I can tell you this:

It does have something to do with the wedding that takes place, but not necessarily what you might think.

[UK_Stu]

Well folks, since this issue comes out tomorrow, I thought I'd tease you folks with some hints. That's right, I know what is going to happen in this issue, some of it for about five days now. So with that, here's a few teases if you wish to see them:

*Daredevil isn't the only superhero who makes a guest appearance in the main story.
*That Doc Ock's master plan could be familiar for some viewers, and that the cover for Alex Ross's cover showing Spidey fighting six tentacles--it's NOT an artistic error and there's a good reason why.
*That the wedding that takes place in this issue could potentially have an real impact on Peter Parker.
*Remember how some folks have been complaining about how since Peter Parker is now single it should make him available for potential love interests? Well...lets just say some folks are going to be happy and some folks are going to be really, REALLY mad. And not just the those who don't like BND but even those who do.
*And, there's a scene that is probably going to be interpreted by the anti-OMD/BND faction as either a real slap in the face...or a sign of hope.


These teases have me quite excited - please tell me i'm not going to be angry reading this book?

[Ion Kenshin]

I enjoyed American Son don't get me wrong but what is up with Marvel and building things up and then having nothing come of it. I feel as though nothing was affected by this story. Nothing changed.