Would Clayface ever show up in a live action movie?

[Weadazoid]

OK, So in a different thread I borught up the fact that Batman at times is a bit low on Eye candy Villains, with CGI being what it is today Clay face is a clear possibility



Anyone else here feel that the mighty and highly supported to be a villlain in just about any Comic book movie Bruce Cambel would fit the role perfectly as the still dashing but losing his looks actor formula that was used in the Animated series. I know his name comes up to often, but certainly in terms of facial expressions, and that once..heroic handsome look..he fits rather well...


personality and voice would also be bang on as well

[batman_mh_2005]

Clayface would make an excellent villain, if it were for the previous set of movies. Nolan is trying to take a realistic take on these characters and a man made out of clay may be too much of a stretch for what he is trying to pull off. But I like your thinking Weadazoid!!

[CaptainClown]

If I was doing clay face in this type of series here is how I would do it. First clayface can't turn into a huge monster and start making knives and hammers out of his hands. He won't be like sandman at all. Moving on he transforms to things about his size so a person but he can't change his voice so that is kind of a give away. Next the tone of the whole movie would be like a horror, when clayface starts degrading throughout he starts turning into a creature like the thing. (the movie the thing not fantastic four)

[The Shredder]

I couldnt see Clayface making an appearance under Nolan's direction, and even if he did, I would assume it would be the original conception of Clayface that would be the one Nolan would go with. You know, Basil Karlo (?) as a killer wearing a mask made out of clay. To see anything remotely like the Matt Hagen Clayface, or what Ultimate Clayface is now, I fear another director would likely have to be the case for this to ever happen.

[uchiha_itachi]

i think it would have to be established that other people have powers first in order for it be fit in.

[batman_mh_2005]

i think it would have to be established that other people have powers first in order for it be fit in.


You and the Shredder make good points. Just I don't see Nolan going for him, I see him taking some of the other characters to film first. I see the Mad Hatter or maybe Lady Shiva coming to the films. Although I don't really care for neither. Black Mask, Ventriloquist, or Mr. Zsaz would be nice to. I know Zsaz was in Batman Begins, but he didn't have too much screen time. And he is one of Batman's more viscious foes. David Caine would work too.

[Kaizer]

could see him as a master of disguise, but nothing more. Not the man of clay we know.

[Mr. Socko]

^Probably not in this series, but he may appear one day.

If he does I want him like he was in TAS except the blob look. Instead of being a huge blob of clay, he should be normal human size and made of clay. Look wise, think T-1000 made of clay. I think it looks better and it'd be more logical that if it was possible, a normal size clay man could turn into a normal size guy instead of a giant blob turning into a normal size man.

http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/t/t1000metal.jpg

[strikezone89]

ima say no cause he's a little to unrealastic for nolans view

[Rockbottom]

If sandman works on screen than Clay Face can, there powers are pretty similar.

[Mr. Socko]

This forum is for more than Nolan's realism films.

[CaptainClown]

The thing is people don't want to see another cg monster thing

[CaptainClown]

^Probably not in this series, but he may appear one day.

If he does I want him like he was in TAS except the blob look. Instead of being a huge blob of clay, he should be normal human size and made of clay. Look wise, think T-1000 made of clay. I think it looks better and it'd be more logical that if it was possible, a normal size clay man could turn into a normal size guy instead of a giant blob turning into a normal size man.

http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/t/t1000metal.jpg
Exactly I hated that about sandman... I liked all the rules set up for the T-1000

[EagleVision]

Nolan on the real kick cetainly wouldn't do it. It would be cool to see I guess, but it'll never happen. It'd be lame too with Sandman on the Spider-Man tip. Plus, he's not as popular as the rest of the rogues gallery. The best we could see is a Batman TAS movie.

[CaptainClown]

Well we don't know if he would do it. He might just change the character unless you do indeed know Nolan

[batboy99]

I want Croc :(

but i wouldnt mind clayface

[EagleVision]

Well we don't know if he would do it. He might just change the character unless you do indeed know Nolan

The possibility is always there dude, I'm going by the simple fact that he said he wants realism. Nothing more. Heh, if I knew that mug, I would've hounded him about certain things in BB I didn't like. And then he would blocked me from calling him on his cell.

[CaptainClown]

Dude you could get laid that way... go to a comic book store wait for a girl to come in... (don't count on it for a while) then say.. hey I know christopher nolan... he did a little picture you might of heard of it... Batman Begins.. ya its called one of the best superhero movies... sooooo I'll be Batman and you can be my cat woman meow..

[hammy]

:whatever:

[CaptainClown]

Well, what do you expect from a guy with a sig like mine...

[Mr. Socko]

I'll place it quite simple for those who still have yet to grasp how things work:


-Nolan is doing a fine job but won't likely direct any more than 3 Batman films

-The Batman films produced by Warner Brothers will go long past Nolan's 3

[Crippy]

I hope Clayface is in a movie but not for a while, I think there are other villains that should be done first.

[EagleVision]

I'll place it quite simple for those who still have yet to grasp how things work:


-Nolan is doing a fine job but won't likely direct any more than 3 Batman films

-The Batman films produced by Warner Brothers will go long past Nolan's 3

It better! Who cares if Nolan doesn't go on after 3, that doesn't mean I don't want to see a director do other Bat films, as long he doesn't turn out to be a another Schumacher.

[EagleVision]

Dude you could get laid that way... go to a comic book store wait for a girl to come in... (don't count on it for a while) then say.. hey I know christopher nolan... he did a little picture you might of heard of it... Batman Begins.. ya its called one of the best superhero movies... sooooo I'll be Batman and you can be my cat woman meow..

By the way CC, I've done it already man, it doesn't work, heh-heh, just kidding, heh-heh, no I'm not.

[CaptainClown]

Hahahahha

[Nepenthes]

http://www.wizarduniverse.com/_gfx_/magazines/wizard/ross/clayface.jpg




If I was doing clay face in this type of series here is how I would do it. First clayface can't turn into a huge monster and start making knives and hammers out of his hands. He won't be like sandman at all. Moving on he transforms to things about his size so a person but he can't change his voice so that is kind of a give away. Next the tone of the whole movie would be like a horror, when clayface starts degrading throughout he starts turning into a creature like the thing. (the movie the thing not fantastic four)


Sure you CAN have Clayface from the comics but it would have to be an extreme sci-fi or surreal Burton or
Batman&Robin type film. That's cool if it's what you're after, but not for me. I don't think Batman should be treated
that way in live action films anymore. Keep it strictly crime movies with a touch of the fantastic and grotesque.
Heightened Real world.

So I agree with Captain Clown Clayface could be great if you cut out the monster stuff. Which is EASY because that's
not really what his character is about. It's about shifting identity, any identity, but ultimately, NO identity. He's the man
without a face, who can take any face.

If you want horror the picture above is the most extreme I'd take it. If it's NolansWorld then a picture a superstar
celebrity (Frank Sinatra) with a drooping face. He wants his old life back but he'll never get it. I wrote a nice
Clayface idea in anotherthread and I'll find it later.







http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/8103/clayface115th.jpg

[CaptainClown]

http://www.wizarduniverse.com/_gfx_/magazines/wizard/ross/clayface.jpg







Sure you CAN have Clayface from the comics but it would have to be an extreme sci-fi or surreal Burton or
Batman&Robin type film. That's cool if it's what you're after, but not for me. I don't think Batman should be treated
that way in live action films anymore. Keep it strictly crime movies with a touch of the fantastic and grotesque.
Heightened Real world.

So I agree with Captain Clown Clayface could be great if you cut out the monster stuff. Which is EASY because that's
not really what his character is about. It's about shifting identity, any identity, but ultimately, NO identity. He's the man
without a face, who can take any face.

If you want horror the picture above is the most extreme I'd take it. If it's NolansWorld then a picture a superstar
celebrity (Frank Sinatra) with a drooping face. He wants his old life back but he'll never get it. I wrote a nice
Clayface idea in anotherthread and I'll find it later.







http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/8103/clayface115th.jpg
Nice pics, thats how I pictured a live action Clayface. I like that side profile one of him screamin but ya I agree

[nameless_hero]

I've always loved Clay Face fights with Batman, I know he's not the traditional villian and has no logical tactics against bats, but he always put up one heck of a fight.

I think he could look awesome on film now and the possiblities with shape shifting would be limitless. Though he would have to be portryaed correctly and not a failed attempt at an undeveloped character like Sandman in SM3

Thoughts?

[ND Irish]

yea thats the thing though. Sandman. The dumbass ignorant people will say 'oh that character has been done already'.
but i would also like to see him in a live-action movie, the CGI would be incredible

[Ring Deacon]

Well it all depends on which Clayface we are talking about. Now if this is going to be in Nolan's reality based universe, Basil Karlo would be the way to go. Have him be a man of a 1000 faces (think Lon Chaney Sr.) serial killer. But if Nolan were too branch out a bit and bend reality in his universe then Matt Hagen could be cool. I still wouldn't go the Sandman route with him though. A 100 foot tall Clayface would just be silly. But a shape shifter would be cool.

[Mr. Wooden Alligator]

Before writing the script, whoever pens it should make an outline of "rules" regarding Clayface and stick to them while working on the script...like what should have been done with Sandman. If he is in there, BTAS would be my preferred look/height.

[batboy99]

I'd LOVE to see Clayface on the big screen! Even if it wont happen, i dont care, i still would like to see him,or Killer Croc

[Mr. Wooden Alligator]

Killer Croc takes priority for me! He could've had a sweet cameo in Returns as a freak in Penguin's family. If Nolan's really following TLH, maybe he could have Dent run into Croc in the Gotham Sewers, rather than Grundy.

[nameless_hero]

Well it all depends on which Clayface we are talking about. Now if this is going to be in Nolan's reality based universe, Basil Karlo would be the way to go. Have him be a man of a 1000 faces (think Lon Chaney Sr.) serial killer. But if Nolan were too branch out a bit and bend reality in his universe then Matt Hagen could be cool. I still wouldn't go the Sandman route with him though. A 100 foot tall Clayface would just be silly. But a shape shifter would be cool.

I want the small shape shifter, I hated the huge sandman. I want him to be larger than Batman but not towering.:brucebat:

[rory_bat]

I love Clayface (especially the Animated Series interpretation of the character...very sad and multi-layered) and would absolutely flip to see a Nolan interpretation of the character. It is a little far fetched for the Nolan universe but I think he could definitely make it work.

I'll keep my fingers crossed. :cwink:

[Mr. Wooden Alligator]

Add in Freeze as a "freak" hitman for the highest payer and it would be gravy.

[That'ssuper!]

He just do what Mr. Freeze does and make everyone feel the pain of being a permanent social outcast and give them as much suffering as he does because of his mutuation?

[Mr. Wooden Alligator]

Or be a flashy bodyguard for Two-Face.

[batboy99]

Killer Croc takes priority for me! He could've had a sweet cameo in Returns as a freak in Penguin's family. If Nolan's really following TLH, maybe he could have Dent run into Croc in the Gotham Sewers, rather than Grundy.
well, they never use all elements of the story, just bits and pieces. but i do agree about the Returns part

[November Rain]

definitely could be done, he's fairly easy actually...

all you have to do is put a large limit on his abilities and give him some proper motivation.

[JokerLedger]

ClayFace would never work in Nolan's Batman...

In Guillmero Del Toro's Batman? Oh you bet!

[batboy99]

But were not talking about if Nolan will show him in a film, we're just discussing if he could work, not necessarilly in nolans films

[nameless_hero]

I think he could work in the Nolan universe. If they can make 2 Face work, Clay Face would be the same.

he would just be a more reality based character, shape shifting less and not as collosal. think of Scarecrow, they made him work well. Drop the straw, farmer duds and sickle and he was a great character.

[batboy99]

Scarecrow and Two Face are completely different characters compaired to Clayface. Two Face and Scarecrow are pretty realistic characters, they dont shapeshift. Two face is very realistic, hes scarred on one side of his face and has a dual personality. Scarecrow is also pretty realitic as well, just a guy in a potato sac with a strong holucinagen(sp?). Clayface shapeshifts, you cant compare him to those other 2

[Hyden]

For Nolan? No.

Somebody else, it'd have to be real good.

[cerealkiller182]

Before writing the script, whoever pens it should make an outline of "rules" regarding Clayface and stick to them while working on the script...like what should have been done with Sandman. If he is in there, BTAS would be my preferred look/height.

I like this idea.

The thing about Nolan's realism is that it comes from the fact that Batman and most of his enemies arnt "super." They are regular people who are either scarred or have probable gadgets and gear. I think if Nolan were to stay on for a number of movies (which i doubt because he seems to have a semi-self-contained story rumored) and he was to plan to use a character such as Clayface or Freeze, he would ground them in reality in such a way that they would still have their abilities without being cheesy much as X-Men or Spiderman did.

[Crook]

Why wouldn't it work for the big-screen? The potential for superb sfx is apparent, and BTAS proved the character can be given enough depth to handle his own major story arc.

It can absolutely be done.

But let's leave it for someone that's competent enough to handle the character.

[wrhssaxensemble]

There seems to be an interest in having clayface in a TDK sequel (either the 3rd or the 4th). If you don't believe me, just look at the mainpage's poll today where it currently ranks Riddler-->Catwoman-->Clayface--> PENGUIN as the villians most anticipated in the 3rd one.

Anyways, for the Clayface advocates, which clayface would you want? How would they be depicted? Powers or powerless? How could the character be nolanized?

I personally only think that as long as Nolan is in charge, they could do it with pre-powers Karlo but am not sure how well that could possibly translate onto the screen (all the Karlo comics I have read have been Mudpack or later). Maybe Hagen etc, once Nolan is gone but until then no characters with powers.

thoughts?

[warren_sparta27]

Wouldn't want to see Clayface in a Nolan film.
Would much rather he tries Black Mask.

[rory_bat]

Clayface has always been one of my favorite villains. His story is incredibly moving in The Animated Series (I was deeply effected by that even as a child). I would LOVE to see Nolan tackle Clayface if he returns for a third film (I doubt he'll even contemplate a fourth entry). If Nolan followed something along the lines of TAS it could prove to be an excellent and moving story. But how the hell would Nolan tackle the character? Nolan's series is very much grounded in realism to the extreme. Clayface may prove to be too much of a radical character to fit into the framework of his Gotham.

[wrhssaxensemble]

Wouldn't want to see Clayface in a Nolan film.
Would much rather he tries Black Mask.


I agree... I think someone like Black Mask or Scarface would fit in much better in Nolan's universe than a clayface/mr. freeze/manbat etc.

but if he did decide to put in a clayface, how would he depict him without destroying his view of "realism"?

[NinjaTurtleFan]

I said this yesterday to someone---once Nolan leaves, get Guillmero Del Toro or Peter Jackson and bring in fantasy-filled villains like Clayface, Man-Bat, and Mr. Freeze. Then, we'll get the fantasy back in the Batman films. Don't get me wrong I love Nolan's choice of enfusing realism in the D.C. Universe and the Batman films but the only unrealistic thing in "BB" was Scarecrow's fear-serum. Otherwise, everything seemed possible.

[wrhssaxensemble]

I said this yesterday to someone---once Nolan leaves, get Guillmero Del Toro or Peter Jackson and bring in fantasy-filled villains like Clayface, Man-Bat, and Mr. Freeze. Then, we'll get the fantasy back in the Batman films. Don't get me wrong I love Nolan's choice of enfusing realism in the D.C. Universe and the Batman films but the only unrealistic thing in "BB" was Scarecrow's fear-serum. Otherwise, everything seemed possible.


Actually, the fear gas didn't bother me as much as the fact there was a weapon powerful enough to vaporize water in sewers but not within human bodies... but I digress..

I also love the realistic take but agree that at some point after Nolan is done, I would love to see some of the less realistic major villains protrayed on film, especially those we haven't seen before

[CaptainClown]

maybe clayface already appeared you just didn't look hard enough..

[DACrowe]

It wouldn't fit in Nolan's vision. I'm not saying there aren't superpowered beings, but Nolan doesn't want to make a movie where a major character can shift body shape in clay and mimic other people. It's too sci-fi for him.

Also, people would call it a rip-off of Sandman, who was just in Spider-Man 3.

[Hypestyle]

i doubt it.. clayface is probably too blatantly sci-fi/fantasy for Nolan to be interested in..

[NinjaTurtleFan]

It wouldn't fit in Nolan's vision. I'm not saying there aren't superpowered beings, but Nolan doesn't want to make a movie where a major character can shift body shape in clay and mimic other people. It's too sci-fi for him.

Also, people would call it a rip-off of Sandman, who was just in Spider-Man 3.

So, what if they did, sooner or later we need fantasy villains. Nolan I can't see staying on past movie 3. He says he creates each film to feel like a whole; it has a beginning, middle, and end. I want someone who'll pick up where Nolan left off but in truth bring back the fantasy. Don't make it campy or corny or that **** but create a new world for Batman. We've gone through the campy years (60's, Burton and Schumacher's movies), now we're back to the darker realistic years (the 80's, 90's, and today), now let's go into the dark unrealistic years (Morrison and others). I want each film to be a metamorphasis. I want each film to be it's own entity. After Nolan let's take the films into a new direction; still keep it dark and sinister but also bring in the fantasy elements. Will Bale and the rest return for that kind of Batman? It's hard to say but it'd be very nice to see the fantastical or nightmarish of Batman's rogue gallery.

[DACrowe]

Well I'd like to see Mr. Freeze and Poison Ivy done right (two fantastical villains), but could care less about seeing Man-Bat or Clayface. But it won't happen under Nolan. Yes, WB can and may continue the series after Nolan makes BB3, but good luck finding a quality director who wants to follow Nolan up. Also, Bale and the rest of cast and co. will likely leave as they have all emphasized they are doing BB3 if Nolan does it (and most of the crew are Nolan regulars).

BTW I would say Burton's Batman films were dark. Maybe not realistic, but they were surreal nightmarish films.

[wrhssaxensemble]

Also, people would call it a rip-off of Sandman, who was just in Spider-Man 3.

I know, which really bugs me, especially considering the original clayface came much earlier.... but anyways, I agree in that you wouldn't be able to see the shapeshifting/body melting clayface in a Nolan film but what about pre-powers Karlo?

[The Shadow]

I'd like to see him in the future, but I'm afraid if he did appear, the general public would think he was a character to copy the Sandman from Spider-Man 3. If he does appear, I'd like to see him in "blob form" as Matt Hagen or the Actor Basil Karlo as pretty much an ordinary person. Karlo would be the most believable if thats what you're looking for.

[Venom 1988]

Clayface can work in Nolan's movies...if only he like how he originally was...just a guy in a mask...however me thinks it wouldnt be that appeasing to the fans, but he can still work.

[Yurka]

Dont know if its been said yet but Jonah and Goyer said theres no chance of seeing clayface in this series.

[DACrowe]

I know, which really bugs me, especially considering the original clayface came much earlier.... but anyways, I agree in that you wouldn't be able to see the shapeshifting/body melting clayface in a Nolan film but what about pre-powers Karlo?

Ah, but the most interesting thing about Clayface is the stuff TAS added in his shapeshifting origin (much like they improved Mr. Freeze). And in defense of Stan Lee, he created Sandman before Clayface became...Clayman if you know what I mean.

But there are a slew of non-fantasy villains to use that could work with The Riddler (maybe too cheesy though), Catwoman, Talia, Mad Hatter, The Ventriliquist and Scarface, etc.

The only character with fantasy elements I could see being toned down and working well in the Nolan rogue gallery is Poison Ivy, though.

[Comicfilmer]

Note:

Spoilers pertaining to The Dark Knight have been blacked out (but really, if you haven't seen the film, you shouldn't be snooping around the sequel forum yet anyway).

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I've been doing a little bit of thinking since seeing The Dark Knight, and if there is one thing I think everyone can agree on about the future of the current Batman franchise, it's that The Dark Knight brought a certain amount of escalation into the picture that just wasn't there before. With the Joker and Two-Face now introduced into the film series, the gritty realism of Batman Begins has strayed a little from being completely grounded in reality and more and more comic book elements have been introduced into the film - a move made purposefully by the brothers Nolan.

Batman has a wonderful rogues gallery - the finest of any comic book hero (in my personal opinion, alongside Spider-Man and Dick Tracy), but only a handful of said rogues would be 100% compatible with Nolan's reality-based franchise. To compensate for this, certain liberties were taken in Batman Begins - first with Ra's and the Scarecrow, to mold the characters into more believable examples. Following the introduction of the Joker and Two-Face, however, the villains have become more colorful and pulpish. This is best exemplified by Two-Face, I think. Clearly this individual could only exist in a fantasy world (the same can be said, of course, about other elements found in the film, including microwave emitters and even Batman himself - but Two-Face is visually fantastic, simply by nature).

I have seen a lot of discussion on this forum (and on The Dark Knight forum) about Nolan's next move. Where does the story go from here? Who should the villain be and how will Nolan top The Dark Knight?

It is my opinion that one of the logical choices, based upon the given story and what we know from Goyer and Nolan, is Clayface. Granted, there exists a wide variety of origins and interpretations of the Clay-Face character, and many fans aren't likely picking him for Nolan's reality-grounded world, but I think it would be a mistake to overlook him. Firstly, it has been stated time and again that Nolan is not interested in retreading any more of Batman's rogues that have been previously seen on film in previous franchises. That rules out Penguin, Catwoman, the Riddler, Mr. Freeze, Poison Ivy, and Bane (despite a few of them being fan favorites). Obviously there remains, even after that bunch, a laundry list of villains that can be picked from, including Black Mask, Ventriloquist, Killer Croc, Harley Quinn, Firefly, Deadshot, the Mad Hatter, Man-Bat, Hugo Strange, etc.

I would like to parallel the current Batman franchise with the Spider-Man films (and hope that in the process of doing so I'm not ridiculed and flamed :oldrazz: ). The first two Spider-Man films, though clearly fantasy-based, were far more realistic than the third film, which featured Sandman as a hulking monster, Spider-Man and the new Goblin teaming up and having some mid-air hijinx, and, of course, Venom. Regardless if this was a change for the better or worse of the Spider-Man series, it's clear that the world Raimi created has gone more toward the comic book side of things than the realistic side of things. I think introducing Two-Face in The Dark Knight opened the doors to the comic book side of things for Nolan's Batman (and this doesn't necessarily have to be a negative thing).

Clayface could be handled as the character was in the Animated Series. He could start out as Basil Karlo, a B-movie, washed-up actor who uses a cream on his face to remain youthful as he desperately tries to maintain his career in the horror film industry. Of course, there is either a freak accident or a run-in with some bad dealers when Karlo doesn't pay up for his drugs (as it was presented in the Animated Series) and the actor becomes the dreaded mud-monster: Clayface (who doesn't necessarily have to be an enormous monster like Sandman was in Spider-Man 3 - but simply a man who appears to be made out of mud).

Throughout the film, Clayface could shape-shift and take on the likeness of a number of previously introduced deceased characters from the Nolan mythos, including Rachael, Thomas Wayne, Ra's, Harvey, etc. - and living characters like Alfred or Gordon - and cause a lot of trouble for Bruce Wayne, Batman, and Gotham, all the while Batman is still being hunted down by the city's police force. He could even take on the form of Batman and commit further horrific crimes, creating even more distrust for Batman in Gotham. At the conclusion of the film, he could be killed or taken into custody and Batman could be cleared of his (Harvey's) crimes from The Dark Knight and restored as a figure of hope for good people and a symbol of fear for the criminal underworld.

Not only is Clayface an interesting villain who has yet to see a film incarnation of any kind, but he is a villain who can be both tragic and visually appealing, while at the same time providing a new venue for continuing the story of The Dark Knight, and wrapping up the story arc that Nolan has going by bringing the series full-circle (by way of bringing back Thomas Wayne, Harvey, Ra's, etc.) and vindicating Batman.

For his appearance, I would like to see a nod to the original Clayface - essentially a man made of soft mud, with the trenchcoat and hat - not a towering, top-heavy freak with crooked teeth like we say in the Animated Series.

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/6865/clayface2mz3.jpg

Like it, love it, hate it? Thoughts?

[nameless_hero]

It's feasable, personally I've always loved Clayface, but he could not be treated as the towering monster more like the Chamellion from Spidey, a simple shape shifter. I like your ideas, not sure if Nolan is even thinking of another movie at this point.

[batboy99]

I love clayface. I love all the big bad freaks like Croc and Clayfac,e but i dont see them going that route with these movies.

[hegele]

I think clayface could work if he is just a villain (maybe his alter ego is an actor) whose calling card is dressing up and using prostheitics to comit crimes of other people
SPOILERS FOR THE PRESTIGE
much like how Nolan hid the fact that Bale's character in The Prestige was a twin, and how they both dressed up like another character.
It could be interesting. Maybe he wears prosthetics to dress up like Wayne and comit a crime. Or even Dent, leading the public to believe that Dent is alive. The trick is he is alive but hes in Arkham or something. The prosthetics aren't 100% realistic, but enough for security camera to believe it. The fact that he uses prostheitcs and comits crimes as public officials of Gotham causes anarchy and is the hot topic on Gotham Tonight, where Mike Engal cracks it all by figuring out that that its all one man (hinting he might be the Riddler). In the end we might find out that the Joker convinced the "the clayface" to commit these crimes to further chaos in Gotham.
Clayface isn't a literal shapeshifter in Nolans universe, instead he is a thespian master of disguise.

[TLH]

I think clayface could work if he is just a villain (maybe his alter ego is an actor) whose calling card is dressing up and using prostheitics to comit crimes of other people
SPOILERS FOR THE PRESTIGE
much like how Nolan hid the fact that Bale's character in The Prestige was a twin, and how they both dressed up like another character.
It could be interesting. Maybe he wears prosthetics to dress up like Wayne and comit a crime. Or even Dent, leading the public to believe that Dent is alive. The trick is he is alive but hes in Arkham or something. The prosthetics aren't 100% realistic, but enough for security camera to believe it. The fact that he uses prostheitcs and comits crimes as public officials of Gotham causes anarchy and is the hot topic on Gotham Tonight, where Mike Engal cracks it all by figuring out that that its all one man (hinting he might be the Riddler). In the end we might find out that the Joker convinced the "the clayface" to commit these crimes to further chaos in Gotham.
Clayface isn't a literal shapeshifter in Nolans universe, instead he is a thespian master of disguise.

Pure gold. You win, my friend. You have figured how to make Clayface a Nolan-universe villain and add a twist or two to the plot. Bravo.

I still have to ask the question. What kind of fights/confrontations will Batman have along the way to keep action fans satisfied? I don't see this interpretation of Clayface holding up in terms of fight/action sequences. We would need another villain; a villain who can hold his own against Batman.

[Tex Hex]

Note:

Spoilers pertaining to The Dark Knight have been blacked out (but really, if you haven't seen the film, you shouldn't be snooping around the sequel forum yet anyway).

-----------------

I've been doing a little bit of thinking since seeing The Dark Knight, and if there is one thing I think everyone can agree on about the future of the current Batman franchise, it's that The Dark Knight brought a certain amount of escalation into the picture that just wasn't there before. With the Joker and Two-Face now introduced into the film series, the gritty realism of Batman Begins has strayed a little from being completely grounded in reality and more and more comic book elements have been introduced into the film - a move made purposefully by the brothers Nolan.

Batman has a wonderful rogues gallery - the finest of any comic book hero (in my personal opinion, alongside Spider-Man and Dick Tracy), but only a handful of said rogues would be 100% compatible with Nolan's reality-based franchise. To compensate for this, certain liberties were taken in Batman Begins - first with Ra's and the Scarecrow, to mold the characters into more believable examples. Following the introduction of the Joker and Two-Face, however, the villains have become more colorful and pulpish. This is best exemplified by Two-Face, I think. Clearly this individual could only exist in a fantasy world (the same can be said, of course, about other elements found in the film, including microwave emitters and even Batman himself - but Two-Face is visually fantastic, simply by nature).

I have seen a lot of discussion on this forum (and on The Dark Knight forum) about Nolan's next move. Where does the story go from here? Who should the villain be and how will Nolan top The Dark Knight?

It is my opinion that one of the logical choices, based upon the given story and what we know from Goyer and Nolan, is Clayface. Granted, there exists a wide variety of origins and interpretations of the Clay-Face character, and many fans aren't likely picking him for Nolan's reality-grounded world, but I think it would be a mistake to overlook him. Firstly, it has been stated time and again that Nolan is not interested in retreading any more of Batman's rogues that have been previously seen on film in previous franchises. That rules out Penguin, Catwoman, the Riddler, Mr. Freeze, Poison Ivy, and Bane (despite a few of them being fan favorites). Obviously there remains, even after that bunch, a laundry list of villains that can be picked from, including Black Mask, Ventriloquist, Killer Croc, Harley Quinn, Firefly, Deadshot, the Mad Hatter, Man-Bat, Hugo Strange, etc.

I would like to parallel the current Batman franchise with the Spider-Man films (and hope that in the process of doing so I'm not ridiculed and flamed :oldrazz: ). The first two Spider-Man films, though clearly fantasy-based, were far more realistic than the third film, which featured Sandman as a hulking monster, Spider-Man and the new Goblin teaming up and having some mid-air hijinx, and, of course, Venom. Regardless if this was a change for the better or worse of the Spider-Man series, it's clear that the world Raimi created has gone more toward the comic book side of things than the realistic side of things. I think introducing Two-Face in The Dark Knight opened the doors to the comic book side of things for Nolan's Batman (and this doesn't necessarily have to be a negative thing).

Clayface could be handled as the character was in the Animated Series. He could start out as Basil Karlo, a B-movie, washed-up actor who uses a cream on his face to remain youthful as he desperately tries to maintain his career in the horror film industry. Of course, there is either a freak accident or a run-in with some bad dealers when Karlo doesn't pay up for his drugs (as it was presented in the Animated Series) and the actor becomes the dreaded mud-monster: Clayface (who doesn't necessarily have to be an enormous monster like Sandman was in Spider-Man 3 - but simply a man who appears to be made out of mud).

Throughout the film, Clayface could shape-shift and take on the likeness of a number of previously introduced deceased characters from the Nolan mythos, including Rachael, Thomas Wayne, Ra's, Harvey, etc. - and living characters like Alfred or Gordon - and cause a lot of trouble for Bruce Wayne, Batman, and Gotham, all the while Batman is still being hunted down by the city's police force. He could even take on the form of Batman and commit further horrific crimes, creating even more distrust for Batman in Gotham. At the conclusion of the film, he could be killed or taken into custody and Batman could be cleared of his (Harvey's) crimes from The Dark Knight and restored as a figure of hope for good people and a symbol of fear for the criminal underworld.

Not only is Clayface an interesting villain who has yet to see a film incarnation of any kind, but he is a villain who can be both tragic and visually appealing, while at the same time providing a new venue for continuing the story of The Dark Knight, and wrapping up the story arc that Nolan has going by bringing the series full-circle (by way of bringing back Thomas Wayne, Harvey, Ra's, etc.) and vindicating Batman.

For his appearance, I would like to see a nod to the original Clayface - essentially a man made of soft mud, with the trenchcoat and hat - not a towering, top-heavy freak with crooked teeth like we say in the Animated Series.

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/6865/clayface2mz3.jpg

Like it, love it, hate it? Thoughts?


not bad, but still the idea of a shape shifter in Nolans world still seems a bit TOO far out....but this certainly is an interesting way to go for the character. You could also keep it alongside the rise of the freaks-say the person Karlo gets his drugs from is Black Mask, muscling in on the trade we know Falcone, Maroni etc previously ran. And having a little bit of theatricality he plants the death mask laced with chemicals on those who cross him-Karlo being the one who survives, has a bad reaction and becomes Clayface as you lay him out. Still you would have to figure why he would have a vendetta against Wayne or why he would impersonate these people...and as discussed elsewhere theres still a chance Two Face might still be viable, if they want to go all Dark Victory on the series.

And Ill throw this in as well-the Joker doesnt need to be recast in the third film, but just alluded to. Make it known the rise of freaks in Gotham is due to his and Batmans example, and have Gordon or someone refer to him being in Arkham, under maximum security and treated with kids gloves-solitary confinement the whole shebang, to which Mr.J seems fairly indifferent. Have Gordon voice his idea that The Joker acts like he could break out anytime he wanted to, therefore keeping his influence and impact on Gotham there and the idea that he can come back anytime

[hegele]

Pure gold. You win, my friend. You have figured how to make Clayface a Nolan-universe villain and add a twist or two to the plot. Bravo.

I still have to ask the question. What kind of fights/confrontations will Batman have along the way to keep action fans satisfied? I don't see this interpretation of Clayface holding up in terms of fight/action sequences. We would need another villain; a villain who can hold his own against Batman.

thanks man, i've had the idea of a thespian actor/master of disguise thing for clay-face since Batman Begins, haha. You do raise a great point though, he wouldn't be enough alone. If they could parallel it with a Se7en like story of a serial killer who likes to leave clues, maybe he even convinces the "clayface" to do his dirty work for him. It'll lead up to the Riddler.

ok, ok, ok. Here is my version of the third film (villain/threat wise)....

I really like this idea, in fact, i think this is a great way to cap off the trilogy...

villains
Maybe the villains will be: The Riddler, Clay-face, Two-face and The Joker

synopsis
The movie is in the tone of the Silence of the Lambs, more of a detective mystery (Long Holloween) than the action heavy TDK because the villain isn't about anarchy, just psychological intimidation to the citizens of Gotham and even more so to Gothams finest/public officials. Why? Because he likes the attention, not because he likes chaos. It starts off with murders. Security cameras capture the murders of random citizens all around the city done by city officials and notable public figures (The Mayor, Gordon, even Bruce Wayne). Some of the murders are seen to be done by members of the remaining mafia (who kill off other mob families), this leads to a mob civil war, practically wiping out organized crime in Gotham for good. Each murder scene has a riddle, taunting the police. The GCPD has turned into a frenzy, and with the city against Batman, they have little help to turn to, most of the cops are finding it increasingly hard to trust each other after the events in TDK and even more so after witnesses and cameras capture their own as perps in the murders. They begin demanding answers as the evidence of the murders have leaked out to the GNC, where Mike Engle has soaring ratings on Gotham Tonight by showing the tapes without explanation as to how the station obtained them. The GCPD get furious with the show when it leaks restricted evidence to the public. Batman tries to beat answers out of Engle, Engle says they are sent in the mail with riddles in each package (a sypher like the Zodiacs), after figuring out the cipher, it gives Batman the name of a theatrical actor, Basil Karlo and we find that with the use of waxed prosthetic applications and careful study on the subjects, he is in fact the one behind the murders. He confesses to it all without any motive given. His face is constantly peeled and bruised due to the waxed applications. The GCPD flaunt the capture to the public, trying to ensure the city is safer, headlines in the paper read "CAUGHT: The Clay-Faced Killer". Everything settles down. Then another riddle turns up at the door of the GCPD with a video tape. Before we know it, the murders start again. This time though, the tape left behind shows what looks like Harvey Dent committing a murder of an accused crooked cop, only this Dent has scars across half of his face. He tosses a coin in front of the camera to determine the fate of the officer. Batman and Gordon consider how many officers knew of Dent's specific fate and more importantly, his method of “fair” justice. Who could have leaked it to another 'clay-face killer', the one still leaving the riddles? More importantly, how is it that this clay-face is capable of recreating Dents appearance perfectly (the prosthetic applications from the first clay-face killer were detectably phony at close inspection). Gordon makes a confession to Batman... Dent was only unconscious when he fell, leaving him in a coma. Gordon, keeping it tight lips with the few that knew, placed him under the psych ward at Arkham. Gordon confesses that Dent just woke from the coma a week ago. Bat’s is not happy about the secret. Gordon tells him he couldn’t reveal it to him because he was afraid that Batman would try to get involved with Dent in an attempt to show Harvey a righteous path (and to clear Batman’s own name to the public) and the few loyal cops that knew of Harvey’s existence might turn on Gordon for if they find out he’s still in cahoots with the Dark Knight. At this point Gordon could not gamble with his men’s trust. Batman thinks the coincidence might be too much to ignore, so he confronts Dent at Arkham anyway. They have philosophical discussions on justice, Dent claims he hasn’t left his cell. This is confirmed by his psychiatrist. The tape of Dent murdering the cop leaks out to Gotham Tonight, after the cities martyr is seen in the video murdering an officer in what he calls “the court of true justice”, The city goes nuts. Another clayface killer mocking the cites symbol of hope. The new clayface killer, now called “The Two-Face” cop killer continues to make video tapes of police murders. The killer explains how each officer participated in something corrupt before flipping a coin to determine their fate. Some survive the flip, others don’t. All leak to Gotham Tonight. The survivors have little recollection aside from being bashed on the head unconscious before filming. Each surviving officer has a one letter code written on their chest. Gordon is forced to fire the survivors for the sake of public perception after the very accurate evidence presented by Dent. The city is burning. Gotham’s finest are slowly quitting, the remaining few believe an insider on the force is leaking the evidence to this “fake Dent”. Cops can no longer trust their own, and because of this, Gordon can trust nobody but Batman. The citizens lose hope in almost everything, everyone every night becomes glued to Gotham Tonight when “Harvey Two-Face” demands that the “court session of true justice” as he likes to put it be shown live on Gotham Tonight or else there will be no flip of the coin for a chance for the officers to survive. The show becomes a sick reality program and rating are up. Bruce begins to think that maybe the Joker was right, maybe deep down everyone is like him. Gordon tells Batman that every officer being captured are officers that were tried by the actual Harvey Dent years ago when he was still a front running Internal Affairs officer, and that all of them were not convicted. Batman interrogates the real Dent, but when confronted, he sees more and more of the Harvey he knew. He wants to believe Harvey’s therapy is working. The psychologist continues to disprove the idea that Harvey ever left Arkham, backing it with video evidence. After the next officer survives, Batman takes account the latest symbol and figures out the riddle. It leads back to Engle. Batman finds Engle. Engle confesses. He is the man behind the riddles and the videos, but he is not “The Two-face killer”. Engle is clearly psychotic; he did it all for Gotham’s attention, both on him in the studio, and the mystery he created. And now he has the attention of Batman, who he got the city to hate on his program by persisting a theory that Batman became the Two Face killer, murdering the cops that insisted the city turn to hate him. He presents Batman with a riddle (one I haven’t written yet) and it all comes back to Arkham…

The clues comes together… Engle’s riddle explains everything. We find out that Harvey’s psychiatrist let Harvey out every night to commit the murders. Harvey agreed to leave the riddles on the survivors in return for getting justice on the police force that destroyed his family. The execution might have been done by this “Riddler” (Engle) but its birth came from none other than The Joker. Engle explains that he got an exclusive interview with the Joker after he was captured, The Joker offered him a chance to be infamous. He told him where to find the remaining money he took from the mob and to offer half to Basil Karlo, the clay-face killer, an actor he knew from “back when” who was clinically insane and would do anything to get out of dept. Engle agreed in exchange for the other half and the “exclusives of what was to come”. All it took was an almost Stockholm syndrome- like relationship Dent’s shrink, Harley Quizno had with The Joker. Batman, after hearing this from Engle (we see it in Nolan esc. Flashbacks kind of like The Prestige), Batman rushes to Arkham. He moves to the Jokers cell. He finds Dr. Quizno, hung by the next, with a fresh chiseled smile dressed up with black eyes, white and red paint on her face, like The Joker. “HA HA HA” is smeared everywhere in the cell with her blood. He moves to Dents cell. Dent taunts Batman “I did what was fair. If Gotham wasn’t afraid to live in a city that is truly fair, it wouldn’t have needed you”. Dent explains that Engle offered him a chance out for good but being a man of “justice”, he flipped and lost the toss, so he came back every night. Harvey gives Batman a note left by The Joker addressed to him. It reads of how they are they are two freaks now destined to battle for the sanity of Gotham and now that the city hates both of them, Gotham has nothing left but extinction. Gordon comes too. He states in a public address along with the Mayor that The Batman solved the murders. The city demands answers about the “Two-Face” killer, Gordon says that Harvey has always been dead, and that the killer was another “Clay-face” that has been arrested. The spirit of Gotham resides now on Batman. He is the hero the public should have seen all along. Bruce comes to terms with it and decides he can never hang up the cape.

Themes
Redemption but at a cost. Batman becomes the only thing Gotham trusts, Bruce knows that because of this, he can never quit.

Might need a few fixes but I think a murder mystery like this would be the best way to go. … Sorry for the long post!

[Weadazoid]

Dont know if its been said yet but Jonah and Goyer said theres no chance of seeing clayface in this series.



I beleive Rami also said no way will I ever do Venom after Spiderman 2.

[\S/JcDc\S/]

With the grounded in reality path of Nolan's Batman... I have always wondered if we can see something a little more out there so to speak.

My favorite BTAS villain was Clayface.

Is this something that can even be considered in this franchise version of Batman?

[cerealkiller182]

I believe Nolan's strength is taking the mythology seriously, not specifically taking the universe and making it "realistic" cause as of yet none of the characters have been portrayed incredibly different. Basically it doesnt matter what the fanboys says about Nolan-verse, Nolan can and will use whoever he wants including Clayface, but if Nolan doesnt want to use someone for any reason than he shouldnt have to. I dont think that would happen anyway because Nolan has always found the villain to fit the themes/story rather than build a story around the villain so it seems.

Think of it this way. If tomorrow Nolan said he's doing Batman 3 with Clayface no one would argue that its not realistic enough with him.

[firstclassclown]

If Clayface was in a picture it wouldn't be a bad idea. Actually, if done with the right actor, could be pretty entertaining. I could see Russel Crowe, Hugh Jackman, or even Ben Affleck as Clayface.

[Bruce Malone]

I think something that strikes a chord between batman and the general public is the realism level of batman and how he is the most "realistic" superhero. In many peoples minds he seems this close to actually maybe existing in real life. I think nolan has exploited that aspect well and why it would very unlikely for the more fantasy villains to pop up for him.

[Fresh Prince]

Clayface will appear in a future Bat flick not in Nolans.

[Punisher Rising]

I'd love to see a TAS-style Clayface in a live-action movie someday but unless Nolan loosens up on his realism stance I don't see it happening.

[KalMart]

I'd love to see a TAS-style Clayface in a live-action movie someday but unless Nolan loosens up on his realism stance I don't see it happening.

In another approach/movie series to Batman that goes for the more fantastical stuff, sure. I don't think Nolan shouldn't have to loosen his stance on anything if the movies are this good. Let another filmmaker do another version their way, and hopefully it'll be very different than these. :up:

[CFE]

If you want to see the first and, to date, only real attempt at a live action Clayface, you should check out the "Birds of Prey" TV Series...he was featured in the second to final episode "Feat of Clay" (funny...that's the same title as the two-part debut of the character in 'TAS')...

http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n338/COMICFILMEXPERT/featofclay.jpg?t=1251159384

He looked decent enough, but had a thuggish 'Brooklyn' type accent that seemed...weird.

[Bathead]

Yah, I remember that. I wasn't really impressed with their interpretation. Very boring.

[Punisher Rising]

In another approach/movie series to Batman that goes for the more fantastical stuff, sure. I don't think Nolan shouldn't have to loosen his stance on anything if the movies are this good. Let another filmmaker do another version their way, and hopefully it'll be very different than these. :up:


I still think Nolan can make his Batman universe more fantastical with characters like Clayface but still do it seriously. It's a matter of execution with the storytelling that makes something effective, not necessarily if it's realistic or not. IMO, it would be refreshing to see Nolan spice things up a bit and introduce the likes of Clayface into his films.

[CFE]

Yah, I remember that. I wasn't really impressed with their interpretation. Very boring.

Agreed...their interpretation of Harley was better, in my opinion :up:

[Punisher Rising]

If by chance Clayface did enter the current film series (let's just hypothetically say he did), I think he would probably be similar to the T-1000 from T2 but of course mainly a large bipedal blob of dark clay. I don't see him being practically due to the complexity that would likely be required to bring him to life, so I'm sure he'd be done as an all-CG character. Seeing how WETA very realistically did the Prawn Aliens in District 9, I'd like to see them be the ones to tackle Clayface should he ever be in a live-action film.

[terry78]

It would be interesting to see how this Batman would react to a more supernatural/sci-fi based rogue. I know this one is more in tune with Frank Miller's "you flying guys handle the weird alien things, I'll handle the muggers and rapists", but food for thought.

[Thundercrack85]

Clayface could work well in his more "Nolan-friendly" incarnation, where it's just his face that he can transform. After seeing Dent walk around with half his face blown off, I don't see it as too great a stretch.

[Mr. Earle]

I'd love to see a TAS-style Clayface in a live-action movie someday but unless Nolan loosens up on his realism stance I don't see it happening.I think he needs to loosen up on the realism anyway. Even if he decides to stick to realistic villains...
Clayface could work well in his more "Nolan-friendly" incarnation, where it's just his face that he can transform. After seeing Dent walk around with half his face blown off, I don't see it as too great a stretch.
Transforming face? But that's not Clayface at all!

[Mister H.]

I think the "master of disguise" approach would work well. Its in line with his early appearances, which seemed to be a nod to Lon Chaney. That could work very well in a Nolan film (think frames and cover-ups) and is actually something I'd be pretty excited about.

[regwec]

^^
Quite right. The first appearance of Basil Karlo had him as a vengeful masked killer. That's perfectly achievable.

[Crook]

I feel that would be a disservice to what the character has evolved to now.

[Mr. Earle]

I feel that would be a disservice to what the character has evolved to now.
I second this.

[Punisher Rising]

I think he needs to loosen up on the realism anyway. Even if he decides to stick to realistic villains...


Agreed 100% on that all the way :up:

[Mister H.]

I feel that would be a disservice to what the character has evolved to now.

So presenting him as an interesting character with depth and a believable motive is a disservice?

[Crook]

Yes, that's what I said.
I can do sarcasm too.

[Mister H.]

^ Okay. It still doesn't make sense.

[Crook]

BTAS Clayface has been the most interesting take on the character I've seen on any medium. Despite it's narrative methods being limited to a children's show, if expanded to the scope of an adult theme like Nolan's series, it has much potential.

I have no interest in relegating him to a masked, chameleon-like killer. Regardless of it's roots.

Is that better?

[BatFan88]

Clayface will not be in a batman movie that nolan makes ofcourse,because clayface
is unrealistic,and the villians has to be reallistic in nolans batman movies.

[terry78]

Clayface will not be in a batman movie that nolan makes ofcourse,because clayface
is unrealistic,and the villians has to be reallistic in nolans batman movies.

He's only made two movies, what is he to say what is unrealistic or not? Batman doesn't even know what else exists in the world.

[Punisher Rising]

He's only made two movies, what is he to say what is unrealistic or not? Batman doesn't even know what else exists in the world.


:up:

I agree very much on all counts. Clayface probably shouldn't be in Part 3, but he'd definitely be a good candidate for the fourth movie, IMO.

[Mr. Earle]

BTAS Clayface has been the most interesting take on the character I've seen on any medium. Despite it's narrative methods being limited to a children's show, if expanded to the scope of an adult theme like Nolan's series, it has much potential.

I have no interest in relegating him to a masked, chameleon-like killer. Regardless of it's roots.

Is that better?Second this as well. He's only made two movies, what is he to say what is unrealistic or not? Batman doesn't even know what else exists in the world.
Well Nolan has set the tone, but i agree with you... They could slowly incorporate more unrealistic elements of the mythos and open up the realism thing.

[Mister H.]

BTAS Clayface has been the most interesting take on the character I've seen on any medium. Despite it's narrative methods being limited to a children's show, if expanded to the scope of an adult theme like Nolan's series, it has much potential.

I have no interest in relegating him to a masked, chameleon-like killer. Regardless of it's roots.

Is that better?

Yes. :yay:

I disagree with you and think a "masked, chameleon-like killer" would be all kinds of cool in a Nolan bat-film, at least I understand where you are coming from now.

[Rodrigo90]

Just make him a minor villain. He shouldnt be a Shapeshifter.

He should be like the new Michael Myers. Wearing different masks and disguises. He repeatedly changes the appearance of his costume in general.

[terry78]

Just make him a minor villain. He shouldnt be a Shapeshifter.

He should be like the new Michael Myers. Wearing different masks and disguises. He repeatedly changes the appearance of his costume in general.

That sounds like something Fox would do to cut costs.

[Mister H.]

^ I think it sounds like something Nolan would do to strip Clayface down to his most basic level, and return him to a characterization closer to his initial appearances.

[Rodrigo90]

That sounds like something Fox would do to cut costs.

Thats what Clayface was like back in the 40s. He wore a green mask and purple garbs. His weapon was a dagger.

But the only to keep his characterisation of changing,is to have him change his masks and costumes.

[Jake Diamond]

Shape-shifting Clayface is interesting, but not for Nolan. Keep him as a creepy serial killer, almost Zsasz-like, donning his horror movie mask while killing people.

Hell, go for Cornelius Stirk, he's far more interesting.

[terry78]

You people have no imagination.

[BatScot]

They could slowly incorporate more unrealistic elements of the mythos and open up the realism thing.Like it or not, 'unrealism' is not what Nolan's Batman films are about and if he were to back off from that 'grounded in reality' viewpoint now it would be one of the biggest mistakes he could make... there will be no unrealistic shapeshifters in a Nolan Batman film—and this:

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/thumb/3/36/Basil_Karlo_%28New_Earth%29_005.png/200px-Basil_Karlo_%28New_Earth%29_005.png

... is not the type of villain Nolan is interested in any more than it is an antagonist the audience has in mind on the heals of the Joker and Two-Face.

[Rodrigo90]

Clayface could be just a minor villain.

[BatScot]

Could, yes—but there are better, more viable options (even if only for easter eggs).

[cerealkiller182]

Like it or not, 'unrealism' is not what Nolan's Batman films are about and if he were to back off from that 'grounded in reality' viewpoint now it would be one of the biggest mistakes he could make... there will be no unrealistic shapeshifters in a Nolan Batman film—and this:

I dont see why. Even the most realistic movies are far from being actually realistic, I dont see any reason why the Batman movies should be considered so much stricter on the rules. Like it or not, Nolan will do whatever he wants, and if he decides to use Man-Bat, Clayface or Mr. Freeze (or not), everyone is still gonna salivate it no matter what they say about the realism now. The movies thus far have not been so good because they keep "realistic" content, but that they fashion real tone, character development, emotion, and interesting plotlines around the comic elements.

[BatScot]

Even the most realistic movies are far from being actually realisticWell 'Roma, città aperta' isn't far being realistic, nor is 'The French Connection', which Nolan cited as inspiration for his Batman films... and you can be damned sure neither Rossellini nor Friedkin thought to spice things up with elements that couldn’t possibly exist in the real world.

I dont see any reason why the Batman movies should be considered so much stricter on the rules. Like it or not, Nolan will do whatever he wantsThis is what Nolan wants:

“The only way to make a film worthy of this great character is to dive in and view him as a real character, and the world as a real world.”
Christopher Nolan — WIZARD #164 June 2005

“[Nolan] told Warner Bros. that if he was going to make Batman… His Batman would be grounded in the real world”
Entertainment Weekly #817 April 29, 2005

... and it is not compatible with fantasy characters.

and if he decides to use Man-Bat, Clayface or Mr. Freeze.. .He won’t.

[Zack Snyder]

How awesome would it be so see Clayface in the ultra realistic Nolanverse for the likely final Nolan Batman film?

Would there be a way to fit a character like this into his vision of Gotham?

If so, who would you cast?

[Figs]

Not sure who I would cast but the only way to do him in Nolan's style would be to use the first version of him in the comics, Basil Karlo.

[Zack Snyder]

Same as B:TAS :up:

[Figs]

Same as B:TAS :up:

As much as I would love to see that version(it's my favorite), I just don't think it would work in the style/world Nolan is using.

The comic character differs from the cartoon by the way. In the comics he uses a clay like makeup to hide his face while committing crimes.

[Zack Snyder]

TAS had Matt Hagen as an actor that gets hurt in a bad car accident. I'm thinking they could even use Roland Dagget, but keep him part of Wayne's scientific division. Batman will find out experiments have began before being ready. Matt of course would be the first and last, as he turns into Clayface. :up: Just my take on it.

[Bat-Mite]

Clayface won't be happening so long as Nolan's at the helm. He's more unrealistic than Mr. Freeze, and Nolan's already renounced him. Hopefully whoever takes over after Nolan will be more open to characters like that for their vision of Batman.

[Caped Crusader]

I'd be pissed if Clayface is chosen over Egghead

[Bat-Mite]

I completely agree with you.

[tecnowraith]

I'm not sure if this has been said already but they do Clayface it would Clayface 1 Basil Karlo from the comics, an actor and master of disguises. No special powers only highly trained skills in make-up. Think Ethan Hunt type.

[RustyCage]

Clayface won't be happening so long as Nolan's at the helm. He's more unrealistic than Mr. Freeze, and Nolan's already renounced him. Hopefully whoever takes over after Nolan will be more open to characters like that for their vision of Batman.

These two guys are probably the biggest things I'd have to still be excited about without Nolan.

Hmmmm, and maybe the Phantasm. :up: (Unless that's why Nolan's after a female lead.. :wow:)

[Gianakin_]

Hmmmm, and maybe the Phantasm. :up: (Unless that's why Nolan's after a female lead.. :wow:)

Oh, no you didn't!:up:

S**t, how come I never thought of it as a possibility? Although it has to stick with the TDKR plot, which would be bigger in scope I would imagine.

[Spiderine]

I couldnt see Clayface making an appearance under Nolan's direction, and even if he did, I would assume it would be the original conception of Clayface that would be the one Nolan would go with. You know, Basil Karlo (?) as a killer wearing a mask made out of clay. To see anything remotely like the Matt Hagen Clayface, or what Ultimate Clayface is now, I fear another director would likely have to be the case for this to ever happen.
If you were doing Clayface in Nolan's movie this would be the ideal way to do it. The original version with Basil Karlo. I just don't see why they would feel a need to use the character in TDKR.

[The Joker]

If they were ever going to do Clayface, Basil Karlo is the way to go.

I'd be pissed if Clayface is chosen over Egghead

Oh please, Chandell is the villain to use:

http://www.bobsliberace.com/decades/1960s/1960s.image/chief.2%20jpeg

[TheDreamMaster]

You know I had a thought about this and could make it work in Nolan's films. Not as the mutated creature from the comics and cartoons, but as a hitman, or someone in what is left of the mob who is great with makeup. The idea is sort like False Face from the 60's show, but not near as campy. Basically he could make himself look like anyone he needed too and quickly if need be. He's that good, and maybe he burned off his fingerprints or something so he cant easily be traced. He could work for MAroni, because if Two Face lived through that crash, Maroni very well still could have. Make him in a wheel chair like Sophia from Dark Victory or something.

[Bat-Mite]

Oh please, Chandell is the villain to use:

http://www.bobsliberace.com/decades/1960s/1960s.image/chief.2%20jpegBut alas, only Liberace could do him justice, and he is no longer with us. :waa:

[The Guard]

I'm not sure if this has been said already but they do Clayface it would Clayface 1 Basil Karlo from the comics, an actor and master of disguises. No special powers only highly trained skills in make-up. Think Ethan Hunt type

Exactly. Combine that with Matt Hagen's acting abilities.

[Zack Snyder]

Exactly. Combine that with Matt Hagen's acting abilities.

That would be cool as a villain. It's just with Clayface's potential as a larger than life villain it would seem kinda wasted if he doesn't get his mutated powers.

[jmc]

It's stories like that which make me hate the internet sometimes.

[Gianakin_]

Jesus H. Caviezel...

[ModestMr.Green]

'SAY IT!'

'Clayface...Basil Clayface...'

[The Guard]

I don't really feel that a rumor of Julie Madison justifies a rumor that Clayface will be in this movie. Seems like really jumping to conclusions.

[Doc Samson]

Clayface as master of disguise would be cool, but once again, Joker kind of used some of that for his arsenal, albeit not in the same exact way.

He disguised himself to infiltrate his own gang in the bank robbery, played dead to infiltrate Gambol's hideout, disguised himself as the cop to assassinate the Mayor & dressed as a nurse to infiltrate the hospital.

Now granted, when most people think of a Nolan Clayface, they're probably thinking of prosthetic faces or something like that, but I just don't know how that would play out. I don't think Nolan would portray it as clean as Eames in Inception (which was a dream illusion anyway) and certainly not like the G.I. Joe movie where Zartan could embody someone all the way down to their physical build and weight.

[Sith Scotti]

Oh for crying out loud . Whose not rumored to be the bad guy ?:doh:

[MechaOrga]

Clayface as master of disguise would be cool, but once again, Joker kind of used some of that for his arsenal, albeit not in the same exact way.

He disguised himself to infiltrate his own gang in the bank robbery, played dead to infiltrate Gambol's hideout, disguised himself as the cop to assassinate the Mayor & dressed as a nurse to infiltrate the hospital.

Now granted, when most people think of a Nolan Clayface, they're probably thinking of prosthetic faces or something like that, but I just don't know how that would play out. I don't think Nolan would portray it as clean as Eames in Inception (which was a dream illusion anyway) and certainly not like the G.I. Joe movie where Zartan could embody someone all the way down to their physical build and weight.

they could use Clayface like Decoy octopus in Metal Gear Solid for PS1...

a master of disguise thats plays into a major plot twist (IE. characters you have seen throughout the film were actually being played by clayface...who of course is working for someone like Hugo strange)

[Street Vendor]

I actually would love to see Clayface in a Batman movie. Either Basil Karlo or Preston Payne would be great(though I know Nolan would never go the Payne route).

[The Guard]

What would be cool is a hybrid. Matthew Hagen, who is a fan of Basil Karlo, and who has Basil's talent for face changing, with something inside him that causes him, a la Preston Payne, to experience horrible pain until he kills someone.

[Sith Scotti]

I refuse to believe Clayface is in the film

[ScarecrowMan666]

I refuse to believe Clayface is in the film


and I refuse to believe anything I'm hearing at this point...THESE PEOPLE DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT! nobody does right now. It's all speculation. Until Nolan or Goyer or both tell us who's going to be in the movie, you really can't believe any other source.

[Hardknox]

Clayface is one of those characters I wish I could see in a live action film.

He is quite the package:

- Tragic as hell - so you've got the audience already feeling for him (if they want to).
- Does the "I can be anyone" thing - Presents a challenge for Batman's detective skills, not to mention what this aspect could mean if he is hired out to frame Batman, causing more trouble.
- Usually depicted as a desperate man, so he could probably be pushed to do some pretty inventive crimes.
- Poses a very physical threat against Batman - you got yourself a villain that can handle himself against Batman AND pose an intellectual challenge at the same time. Not only how do you find/track him down, but how do you beat Clayface in a physical fight. There's been some cool scenarios done in the comics and The Animated Series (both TAS and The Batman).

I think he'd be fun to write for. I don't mind him at all.

[The Guard]

I love Clayface, but I'm fairly certain he would come across as a Sandman ripoff if his supernatural comic book version was used anytime soon.

[MechaOrga]

clayface as a master of disguise and also a character we never see his real face would be kinda cool...(decoy octopus in MG:S)

never show him changing into the characters either. Make him almost elemental like the joker was in TDK (giant drums of gas on ferry? BOOYAH!!its there!)

wouldn't break Nolan's "rules" and also keeps the characters useful and mysterious...

[Hardknox]

I love Clayface, but I'm fairly certain he would come across as a Sandman ripoff if his supernatural comic book version was used anytime soon.

That thought hasn't escaped me. I agree and it's a shame, really.

clayface as a master of disguise and also a character we never see his real face would be kinda cool...(decoy octopus in MG:S)

never show him changing into the characters either. Make him almost elemental like the joker was in TDK (giant drums of gas on ferry? BOOYAH!!its there!)

wouldn't break Nolan's "rules" and also keeps the characters useful and mysterious...

See, that's not bad thinking. That would be pretty cool.

Although I think I would probably miss seeing that large mass of clay goo that he appears as naturally. I guess you can't have everything haha