The Avengers: News and Speculation

[Venom'sDad]

I thik KF said that NF & BW was in the film, not necessarily part of the team. The same can be said about TIH.

[Aztec]

I thik KF said that NF & BW was in the film, not necessarily part of the team. The same can be said about TIH.

Actually he was VERY specific about Nick Fury being a "core player". He stated that the "Big 4" would be: Fury, Cap, Iron Man, and Thor. It is true that he did not specifically say that Hulk and Black Widow would be Avengers, but I think the implication is there. Or at the very least they won't be Avengers...at the START of the flim...;)

[Venom'sDad]

NF is a core player, because it was his idea of the team in the first place. He has SHEILD... he does not need to be a member of the Avengers.

[topdog1]

Based upon Kevin's comments about wanting to keep the focus on the core members, I'd be surprised if they show up. Personally, I agree with him. Too many characters can be problematic. And this is coming from a guy who loved the Pyms in The Ultimates.

Let's look at who is "confirmed" to be on the team:
Iron Man
Thor
Captain America
Nick Fury
Black Widow
Hulk

That's a really good mix of characters and personalities. It even includes a proper female team member to help balance out the cast. So here you have a patriotic WWII era super soldier, a scientist turned monster who distrusts the military, an Asgardian warrior god trying to adjust to life on Earth, a deadly covert secret agent whose allegiance is always suspect, a billionaire playboy with a high tech flying suit, and the ultimate badass superspy who is trying to lead them all as a coherent team. That's a really good sample and a pretty formidable team.

I didn't see these specific comments listed here....

http://blog.newsarama.com/2009/07/27/kevin-feige-announces-avengers-lineup/#comment-468307

I think it’s going to be Iron Man and Thor, Captain America and Nick Fury. I think it’s safe to assume that there will be some members of the Hulk universe in the film as well. In terms of the additional I think Black Widow, sure. The SHIELD organization for sure. What’s exciting, for me, about The Avengers movie is seeing those four characters interact with each other. I think anywhere from the first issues of The Avengers to Civil War the dynamic between Steve Rogers and Tony Stark is just awesome, it’s fascinating. It brings out sides in others that won’t be brought out in the other franchises. Going forward with the mix is a whole other thing, I think it will be cool. So to pile on another 15 or 10, frankly more than four would be too many.

What was that whole buzz about Eva Longoria running around with comic books scouting out the Wasp role a while back? I'd love to see Jan and Hank right away. Founders are founders after all and you can't have an Ultron without Hank. Ultron is one villain begging for a big screen adaptation and would be the best Avengers villain to use by far.

[Dog Brother #1]

maybe they'll introduce hank and jan as tech support in the avengers, and are given a Rhodey style "next time, baby" hints.

[Sarg92]

I think a lot will be changed with the story, characters and such. We will only get 100% confirmation when the film starts filming. Jon Favreau has said that Marvel haven't even started prep work with Captain America which comes out before The Avengers. Also, there isn't even a script written for The Avengers so there is plenty of time for additions and changes.

But I do think it is true that Iron Man, Captain America and Thor would be the main team members with Nick Fury giving them briefing and such on the situation. Hulk is going to be in the film and is going to be an Avenger but he isn't a permanent one. Hulk doesn't really work as a team because he wants to be left alone but when there is need to help and fight he will do it.

[SlackBrian]

I didn't see these specific comments listed here....

http://blog.newsarama.com/2009/07/27/kevin-feige-announces-avengers-lineup/#comment-468307



What was that whole buzz about Eva Longoria running around with comic books scouting out the Wasp role a while back? I'd love to see Jan and Hank right away. Founders are founders after all and you can't have an Ultron without Hank. Ultron is one villain begging for a big screen adaptation and would be the best Avengers villain to use by far.

I'd like to see Hank and Janet make some sort of appearance, especially if they do use Ultron, but I really don't want to see Eva Longoria as Janet. I just can't stand her as an actress. I'd rather see someone like Gemma Arterton with the role:

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/2676/wasparterton.jpg

[kedrell]

^Hmm, me likely! But I have no idea how good an actress she is. Never seen her in anything, at least as far as I can remember.

[SlackBrian]

She was Agent (Strawberry) Fields in Quantum of Solace. The redhead who gets drowned in oil.

[Lobo]

She'll also be the female lead opposite Jake Gyllenhaal in Prince of Persia

[SlackBrian]

That too, so by the time Avengers roles around, she at least won't be a complete unknown.

[FaT_tONle]

I hope they don't cast Janet 20 years younger than Pym though.

[Dog Brother #1]

She is supposed to much younger than him, though. Maybe not 20 years, but at least 10 or so.

[Aztec]

I'd like to see Hank and Janet make some sort of appearance

You see this is the exact kind of thing that bothers me, and clearly Kevin Feige as well. Fanboys have become so obsessed with "cameos" and getting as many characters into films as possible, that they are sacrificing character development. As Feige said, the focus should be on taking these 6 characters (Nick Fury, Iron Man, Thor, Captain America, Hulk, and Black Widow) who have already been introduced and now let them interact with each other. Why take the focus away from this monumental meeting of characters by trying to throw in a bunch of unneeded cameos? Need I point out what happened to films like X-Men 3 and Spiderman 3 when they tried to bring in too many characters?

I would MUCH rather focus on the core group of characters and their interactions with each other; than see a cameo-fest with characters there for the sake of simply having them there. I'm very glad to see that Kevin Feige feels the same way.

[SlackBrian]

^^I'm hardly a "fanboy" for anything Marvel. I was just agreeing with the sentiment that, if Ultron is the villain, Pym should be involved in the story. And hence, so should Janet.

[protocida]

Huh? How is putting Hank and Janet in minor roles a "Cameo-fest"? They're founders. Some people think they should at least make presence in the 1° movie. And they have a point.

[TheVileOne]

Well this isn't the same storyline. I would love to see them in there though.

[Obi-Ron]

Huh? How is putting Hank and Janet in minor roles a "Cameo-fest"? They're founders. Some people think they should at least make presence in the 1° movie. And they have a point.

Seriously.

[Aesop Rocks]

So now theres speculation that the enemy is the Skrulls?

And that Terreance Howard's 'Rhodes' was a Skrull all along?

[cerealkiller182]

Cameo-fest is a lame-ass term in the first place. Seriously. You have a huge library of characters to choose from and you create brand new ones (Couldnt they have called Hall's reporter character Jack Ryder in TDK, and theres never been a female lawyer/DA character in Gotham that could have taken the place of Rachel Dawes?). Cameo-fest would be the GL ring swinging by Clark Kent for no apparent reason other than to be "Oooooo Superman," the Pyms on the other hand. Well, proticida described it efficient enough, no need to continue.

[Aesop Rocks]

Huh? How is putting Hank and Janet in minor roles a "Cameo-fest"? They're founders. Some people think they should at least make presence in the 1° movie. And they have a point.

Hank and Janet are basically the creators of the Avengers, like you said.

How the hell would it be a 'Cameo-fest' to include the goddamn founders?

[Eros]

You see this is the exact kind of thing that bothers me, and clearly Kevin Feige as well. Fanboys have become so obsessed with "cameos" and getting as many characters into films as possible, that they are sacrificing character development. As Feige said, the focus should be on taking these 6 characters (Nick Fury, Iron Man, Thor, Captain America, Hulk, and Black Widow) who have already been introduced and now let them interact with each other. Why take the focus away from this monumental meeting of characters by trying to throw in a bunch of unneeded cameos? Need I point out what happened to films like X-Men 3 and Spiderman 3 when they tried to bring in too many characters?

I would MUCH rather focus on the core group of characters and their interactions with each other; than see a cameo-fest with characters there for the sake of simply having them there. I'm very glad to see that Kevin Feige feels the same way.


Like others have said before,Not haveing Wasp [who gave them the name avengers] and Hank Pym, the 2 founding members of the team in the movie. would be like if the first X-men movie not haveing cyclops or Jean grey in it.

[protocida]

The Chitauri (Much more menacing and alien than "Skrulls") would be a perfect threat for The Avengers. They'd provide incredible action scenes (Imagine the final battle from "The Ultimates Vol. 1" on the big screen!) and they don't require a lot of character development. Have their leader (Kleiser?) tell the Avengers their plans (I love the "Universe's immunological system" concept) and let's jump on the action!

They could also be manipulating the Hulk, which would explain his (rumored) role as a villain in the beginning.

[Aesop Rocks]

So, the aliens from War of The Worlds (2005)?

I wouldn't mind seeing that at all. Especially the Tripods.

Edit. They never wanted to manipulate the Hulk, they wanted to destroy him.
__________________

[protocida]

They'd manipulate to Hulk to destroy the other heroes and THEN destroy him.

[FaT_tONle]

Like others have said before,Not haveing Wasp [who gave them the name avengers] and Hank Pym, the 2 founding members of the team in the movie. would be like if the first X-men movie not haveing cyclops or Jean grey in it.

Actually... Fury laid the name down in his cameo. It's what the GP is going to believe from here on out. The Avengers was a government/SHIELD initiative. I am all for staying true to the rosters and comics but seriously, it just didn't work out that way for this particular instance. You guys honestly want Pym to be some supporting character who gets maybe 15 minutes of screen time max and basically fills in for comic relief? I don't want that. Why not give him his own movie like you did with everyone else instead of just shoving him in there? Clearly they will need characters that can carry sequels once Hulk/IM leave the roster. Would a character who was nothing more than comic relief in the first movie be able to do that? Absolutely not.

[protocida]

Minor role = Comic relief?

[FaT_tONle]

You try finding the screen time with 8-9 heroes, villains, and what not.

[Eros]

Actually... Fury laid the name down in his cameo. It's what the GP is going to believe from here on out. The Avengers was a government/SHIELD initiative. I am all for staying true to the rosters and comics but seriously, it just didn't work out that way for this particular instance. You guys honestly want Pym to be some supporting character who gets maybe 15 minutes of screen time max and basically fills in for comic relief? I don't want that. Why not give him his own movie like you did with everyone else instead of just shoving him in there? Clearly they will need characters that can carry sequels once Hulk/IM leave the roster. Would a character who was nothing more than comic relief in the first movie be able to do that? Absolutely not.


where do you keep getting this comic relief stuff from, have you read any avengers comics with Pym and Wasp in it?:huh:

[William_C]

I'm sure that he means, that with Pym and/or Wasp being reduced to a cameo, that they will probably used as comic relief. Honestly, I dont see a reason has to have these two characters in a major role. Minor would best, having Pym as a scientist, and maybe the Wasp in a assistant to him. Keep the main roles rotating around Cap'n, Iron Man, and Thor and Hulk.

[Aztec]

Actually... Fury laid the name down in his cameo. It's what the GP is going to believe from here on out. The Avengers was a government/SHIELD initiative. I am all for staying true to the rosters and comics but seriously, it just didn't work out that way for this particular instance. You guys honestly want Pym to be some supporting character who gets maybe 15 minutes of screen time max and basically fills in for comic relief? I don't want that. Why not give him his own movie like you did with everyone else instead of just shoving him in there? Clearly they will need characters that can carry sequels once Hulk/IM leave the roster. Would a character who was nothing more than comic relief in the first movie be able to do that? Absolutely not.

This is exactly what I was trying to say before everyone jumped down my throat.

If you really like a character wouldn't you want to see them developed properly? Is it worth it to just throw a character on screen for the sake of doing it? With 6 "confirmed" Avengers in the film, that's already A LOT of characters to further develop and character interactions to explore. Thus far Marvel has done an EXCELLENT job of focusing on character in their films, I'd hate to see that end simply so some people can say: "Oh look, the Pyms!"

Now I want to address the argument that "the Pyms were founding members, thus they have to be in the film". While I liked the Pyms in The Ultimates, remember this is a DIFFERENT interpretation of The Avengers than the original comics, or even The Ultimates. The story is already different because Hulk and Iron Man aren't exactly the same as they were in the comics. This is the Marvel film universe, not the comics universe, thus changes will be made.

[Obi-Ron]

Since they were talking about the Pyms being in the Avengers movie from day one (and were even talking about giving them their own lead-in film for a while), it hardly seems fair to complain that people expect to see them.

[topdog1]

Since they were talking about the Pyms being in the Avengers movie from day one (and were even talking about giving them their own lead-in film for a while), it hardly seems fair to complain that people expect to see them.

Right on.

I had to comment on your "Red Hulk=Marvel's Poochie" title. That simply made me smile! Red Hulk and his what now appears to be growing family of redness needs to go away, fast.

Am I the only fan that didn't and doesn't like The Ultimates? I didn't like The Chitauri and I hated wife beating A-hole Hank Pym basterdization. Also, I liked watching the Ultimate Avengers animated movie but having The Chitauri running around in WWII aiding the Nazis is just an AWFUL idea. It's silly, stupid and cheapens a meaningful and historical time period. You use that time period and people's memories of "the greatest generation" to add depth and credibility to the character of Captain America. You DON'T tinker with the WWII era by adding aliens and flurting with B-movie silliness that pulls credibility right out of the movie.

[FaT_tONle]

where do you keep getting this comic relief stuff from, have you read any avengers comics with Pym and Wasp in it?

Whatever the role is, serious scientist, joker, wife beater... the character will not be fully developed. I mean look at the first two X-Men films. THey didn't go to the 8-9 man roster like that. They focused on the big 4, and the kids (other than Rogue) and the villains barely got any screen time as it was. X-2 they expanded on some of the teenage mutants and Cyclops saw his screen time reduced. Not to mention a bunch of other characters who were hapassed. And then there was X-3...

Since they were talking about the Pyms being in the Avengers movie from day one (and were even talking about giving them their own lead-in film for a while), it hardly seems fair to complain that people expect to see them.

And that was well before BW was confirmed. Hell SLJ's contract was in limbo. THey happened to include BW in IM2 to set her up in Avengers. That takes care of the female lead. And they went through all that trouble signing SLJ, were they really going to waste him by using him the first ten minutes of the film, never to be heard of again until the very end? That's probably what would have happened.

[Son of Coul]

Wasn't Wright talking about having Ant-Man start with a 60s Tales to Astonish style Ant-Man with Pym, then switching to the other guy in present day?

[Venom'sDad]

Well obviously, Marvel had something in mind, given they once plan to do a live action film based on Pym. So the possibility at least still exist of some form of appearence or mention of Pym in this film, even if it is simply a name drop.

Has the solo film been completely dropped or it it simply shelved at the moment?

[FaT_tONle]

Well obviously, Marvel had something in mind, given they once plan to do a live action film based on Pym. So the possibility at least still exist of some form of appearence or mention of Pym in this film, even if it is simply a name drop.

Has the solo film been completely dropped or it it simply shelved at the moment?

The latter.

[Aztec]

So the possibility at least still exist of some form of appearance or mention of Pym in this film, even if it is simply a name drop.

Sure, but would that make you happy? Would that name drop or guest appearance do anything for you or for the overall quality of the film? Aside from a wink and a nod? I'd prefer to maximize my time with the characters who are actually involved in the plot of the film.

If your goal is to say "hello" to the Pyms so they get their own movie later; then perhaps I could understand that but to try to crowbar them into an already character and action filled plot seems pointless to me.

[Venom'sDad]

Well, if that was the case, whos to say that their involvement wouldn't have anything to do with the film's plot or situation. Don't pretend you know, because you don't. All I'm saying there is that possibility given the talk & rumors previously. Besides, there is nothing wrong with that scenario.

[Venom'sDad]

Well, if that was the case, whos to say that their involvement wouldn't have anything to do with the film's plot or situation. Don't pretend you know, because you don't. All I'm saying there is that possibility given the talk & rumors previously. Besides, there is nothing wrong with that scenario.

[jab1118]

I wouldn't mind seeing the pyms as powerless shield scientists played by notable actors that could eventually carry there own movie and that's how u sell the smaller roles to the actors. They can help with tech science based stuff throw in some mentions of pym particles And maybe even him working on ultron. And then they can still have there own movie that can still be an origin story

[Chris B]

Based upon Kevin's comments about wanting to keep the focus on the core members, I'd be surprised if they show up. Personally, I agree with him. Too many characters can be problematic. And this is coming from a guy who loved the Pyms in The Ultimates.

Let's look at who is "confirmed" to be on the team:
Iron Man
Thor
Captain America
Nick Fury
Black Widow
Hulk

That's a really good mix of characters and personalities. It even includes a proper female team member to help balance out the cast. So here you have a patriotic WWII era super soldier, a scientist turned monster who distrusts the military, an Asgardian warrior god trying to adjust to life on Earth, a deadly covert secret agent whose allegiance is always suspect, a billionaire playboy with a high tech flying suit, and the ultimate badass superspy who is trying to lead them all as a coherent team. That's a really good sample and a pretty formidable team.

Definitely a legit concern about too many characters, but I think they could still fit in there. I don't see Nick Fury being any more than a supporting character, and unlike the X-Men films, this will benefit from the fact that Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, Hulk, and Black Widow will have already been established. So the Pym's would really be the only new characters.

And even as far a villains are concerned, I'm starting to think that your idea of a Loki/Red Skull/Hydra trifecta might not be too far off from what they're planning, and they will have also been already established/set-up in previous films.

[Son of Coul]

I definitely think it should be restricted to Iron Man, Hulk, Cap, and Thor. With Fury and Black Widow in support. No need for Pyms yet. I don't get why everyone's rosters include a hundred goddamn people, with them and Hawkeye and Quicksilver and Scarlett Witch. I understand they were in the books, but people are forgetting this movie needs to be, y'know, good. You wouldn't think asking for a small appearance would be much, but working them in just for the sake of it isn't going to work. Now, if they should need scientists at some point, then sure. But there's no point in doing some gay runthrough where Fury goes around introducing "the team" or some other cliche other than making fans go "Oh I know what they did right there! Teehee!"

[Aztec]

I definitely think it should be restricted to Iron Man, Hulk, Cap, and Thor. With Fury and Black Widow in support. No need for Pyms yet. I don't get why everyone's rosters include a hundred goddamn people, with them and Hawkeye and Quicksilver and Scarlett Witch. I understand they were in the books, but people are forgetting this movie needs to be, y'know, good. You wouldn't think asking for a small appearance would be much, but working them in just for the sake of it isn't going to work. Now, if they should need scientists at some point, then sure. But there's no point in doing some gay runthrough where Fury goes around introducing "the team" or some other cliche other than making fans go "Oh I know what they did right there! Teehee!"

Very well said. I completely agree.

Venom's Dad,
I don't believe I claimed to know anything more than anyone else. I do however know that the more characters you add, the less time they get individually.

Chris B,
I agree with most of what you said but you should remember that even thought they don't need to introduce any of the "Core 6"; they still need to develop them and more importantly showcase the interactions between these VERY different characters.

[kedrell]

I think a nice compromise would be the idea(mentioned by some others on here) to have the Pyms as scientists working for SHIELD in a support capacity. Kinda like how Kurt Conners keeps showed up in the Spider-Man movies(though those movies have yet to really do anything with him). Then they can be fleshed out in later movies with the whole Ultron thing. That way they'll still have been there from the begining of the Avengers movies(as they should, since they're founding/integral members in the comics), but don't end up cluttering the movie. They've got time to be explored later.

[Obi-Ron]

I think a nice compromise would be the idea(mentioned by some others on here) to have the Pyms as scientists working for SHIELD in a support capacity. Kinda like how Kurt Conners keeps showed up in the Spider-Man movies(though those movies have yet to really do anything with him). Then they can be fleshed out in later movies with the whole Ultron thing. That way they'll still have been there from the begining of the Avengers movies(as they should, since they're founding/integral members in the comics), but don't end up cluttering the movie. They've got time to be explored later.

Love it.

[FaT_tONle]

Problem is I don't want Marvel bringing in a well known actor for Pym for a short introductory role, even as a regular guy without the particle injections, only to have the actor have a scheduling conflict later, or negotiations to be at a stand still later on, just as we witnessed with SLJ. If it's a minor Ryan Renolds type role then **** it.

[Venom'sDad]

I think a nice compromise would be the idea(mentioned by some others on here) to have the Pyms as scientists working for SHIELD in a support capacity. Kinda like how Kurt Conners keeps showed up in the Spider-Man movies(though those movies have yet to really do anything with him). Then they can be fleshed out in later movies with the whole Ultron thing. That way they'll still have been there from the begining of the Avengers movies(as they should, since they're founding/integral members in the comics), but don't end up cluttering the movie. They've got time to be explored later.

Exactly... and that's the point many of us was making. No one is talking about the Pym's taking on a role equal to the other cast. Aztec, just misunderstood.

Good post kedrell.

[Aztec]

Exactly... and that's the point many of us was making. No one is talking about the Pym's taking on a role equal to the other cast. Aztec, just misunderstood.

No actually I've understood everything just fine. I'll quote myself to demonstrate (and respond to you):

If you really like a character wouldn't you want to see them developed properly? Is it worth it to just throw a character on screen for the sake of doing it? With 6 "confirmed" Avengers in the film, that's already A LOT of characters to further develop and character interactions to explore. Thus far Marvel has done an EXCELLENT job of focusing on character in their films, I'd hate to see that end simply so some people can say: "Oh look, the Pyms!"

[Venom'sDad]

Aztec, you are still missing the point. No one is talking about introducing them for the sake of introducing them. Regardless of how minor the role may be, it will still relate to the film story and situation at hand, while setting a presence for a major appearence/role in preceeding films or tie to his solo film. No one is talking about half-arse throwing him in there. His appearence takes nothing away from the core group of this film.... like kedrell was trying to point out. You make it sound as if any appearence disrespects the character.... and it does not. Unless they repeat Sam Raimi's Venom rendition... which I don't think would happen.

[Aztec]

Aztec, you are still missing the point. No one is talking about introducing them for the sake of introducing them. Regardless of how minor the role may be, it will still relate to the film story and situation at hand, while setting a presence for a major appearence/role in preceeding films or tie to his solo film. No one is talking about half-arse throwing him in there. His appearence takes nothing away from the core group of this film.... like kedrell was trying to point out. You make it sound as if any appearence disrespects the character.... and it does not. Unless they repeat Sam Raimi's Venom rendition... which I don't think would happen.

As I mentioned earlier, if they are introducing them to use them in a future film then I don't have an issue with it.

Let's not talk about Spiderman 3. I'm trying to have a good day...

[S.A.A.D.]

These Pyms you guys are talking about,no. They should be in a sequel if there is one later on,it would be ok if they had a cameo though however if they are going to be in the movie.

[Katsuro]

I see no reason not to include the Pyms as full-fledged members of the Avengers team. If the first X-Men film could pull off introducing that many characters, then Avengers can certainly do it when a good portion of them have already been introduced in their own films.

The Pyms would be the only new characters, and the film could probably use that. I mean sure, people are gonna be psyched to see all these cool characters working together, but most people expect comic book sequels to add some new characters. Imagine how boring these boards would be if we knew the movie wouldn't have anything new to see. No first looks at any characters, or casting speculation.

Besides, it's still not really that many characters. Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, The Hulk, Black Widow, Giant Man, and Wasp as the main team, with Nick Fury in a supporting role as their leader. Hell, i'm pretty sure G.I. Joe is going to have more characters than that.

[Aztec]

Hell, i'm pretty sure G.I. Joe is going to have more characters than that.

But that is the problem! This isn't supposed to be a mindless garbage flick like G.I. Joe. This is supposed to be a story about characters and their interactions with one another. What I loved most about Iron Man was that character was first and action was second. That's what makes Marvel so unique in my opinion.

[GregComicFan]

I dont think it would be difficult to introduce the Pyms if Iron Man, Hulk, Cap, Thor already had their own movies (and in IM's case... 2 movies).... If X-Men introduced all the X-Men in one film, without having previous solo films, I don't think its a big "writer challenge" to introduce just the Pyms in the Avengers movie. You dont have to introduce the others... its just them... so not a big deal at all.

NEW TOPIC FOR DISCUSSION:

Something I've been wondering.... in the comics Cap is the leader and flagship title character of the Avengers. I think when people hear "Avengers" the first hero that comes to mind is Captain America... well... despite the movie studio having a pretty good strategy... the one thing they seem to be messing up is Iron Man seems to be, and has been quoted as being, the flagship character of the Avengers... so even though Captain America will still lead... Iron Man is gonna be the "most flashy, popular, recognizable" character of the Movie-Version Avengers. (This is an assumption, of course... maybe Captain America will be a HUGE HUGE HUGE HIT and Robert Downey Jr wont over-shadow whoever is Captain America)....so what problems will this pose?

[Venom'sDad]

That's pretty much how it is in the comics.... Tony has always been brash. That's what make the dynamics of Steve and Tony interacting with one another interesting.

[protocida]

But that is the problem! This isn't supposed to be a mindless garbage flick like G.I. Joe.
You've seen G.I. Joe? Where?

[LostSon88]

But that is the problem! This isn't supposed to be a mindless garbage flick like G.I. Joe.

Classic...hey genius, how about you actually see the movie before declaring it "mindless garbage".

Oh and FYI, early reviews of G.I. Joe have been overwhelmingly positive. :whatever:

[SlackBrian]

Classic...hey genius, how about you actually see the movie before declaring it "mindless garbage".

Oh and FYI, early reviews of G.I. Joe have been overwhelmingly positive. :whatever:

Those reviews definitely surprised me, but it was a happy surprise. That being said, I see no reason why this film can't have an ensemble cast of 7 or 8 characters, with varying degrees of screentime. Just because people are suggesting the Pyms should be in the movie, but to a lesser extent than the big heroes, does not mean they should be "cameos". It just means they're supporting characters.

[FaT_tONle]

I don't think the lack of news in terms of hearing no major casting announcements outside the villains (if the Pyms aren't in it) will diminish or hinder the anticipation. This movie is basically due out less than a year after Cap. If Thor/Cap are successful people will be flocking to see them again, paired with IM/Hulk. No one is going to care if there are no new characters. This is the first real crossover in their estimations and that's all you need.

[jab1118]

I dont think it would be difficult to introduce the Pyms if Iron Man, Hulk, Cap, Thor already had their own movies (and in IM's case... 2 movies).... If X-Men introduced all the X-Men in one film, without having previous solo films, I don't think its a big "writer challenge" to introduce just the Pyms in the Avengers movie. You dont have to introduce the others... its just them... so not a big deal at all.

NEW TOPIC FOR DISCUSSION:

Something I've been wondering.... in the comics Cap is the leader and flagship title character of the Avengers. I think when people hear "Avengers" the first hero that comes to mind is Captain America... well... despite the movie studio having a pretty good strategy... the one thing they seem to be messing up is Iron Man seems to be, and has been quoted as being, the flagship character of the Avengers... so even though Captain America will still lead... Iron Man is gonna be the "most flashy, popular, recognizable" character of the Movie-Version Avengers. (This is an assumption, of course... maybe Captain America will be a HUGE HUGE HUGE HIT and Robert Downey Jr wont over-shadow whoever is Captain America)....so what problems will this pose?

One thing im very scared of is this movie being to iron man heavy. I think the lead should be Cap seeing as im my opinion he has the best story to tell and should be the leader. BUt iron man will be by far the biggest star and most bankable character by the time it comes ot

[TheWatcher]

i wish they would put warbird in there played by ali larter she's hot!!!!

[Spider-Vader]

I'll be kind of disappointed if they don't have Ant-Man/Giant Man and the Wasp in this.

I say Fury & Widow should only be supporting characters. While Hank & Janet are take their spots as Avengers.

[Katsuro]

One thing im very scared of is this movie being to iron man heavy. I think the lead should be Cap seeing as im my opinion he has the best story to tell and should be the leader. BUt iron man will be by far the biggest star and most bankable character by the time it comes ot

I think the story will lend well to Cap being the lead character. Most likely, the Cap movie will end with him frozen, and the Avengers movie will open with him being unfrozen. We can then be introduced to the Avengers through Cap's eyes. And then, of course, he's the leader.

[protocida]

Iron Man is the leader in the new Avengers cartoon, so, who knows?

I'd focus on him and Captain America.

[WillardNation]

Well Iron Man was the original leader of The Avengers, even after Cap was first unfrozen, right? It wasn't until later incarnations of the team when Cap was leader. (Correct me if I'm wrong) So I wouldn't mind if Iron Man was the leader maybe half way through the movie and the second half they kinda shared leadership or IM realized Cap was the better leader and just let him take over.

[Obi-Ron]

They will probably make Nick Fury the leader.

[cerealkiller182]

They will probably make Nick Fury the leader.

Not a field leader. I think he'll probably be HQ leader. Think Sam Shepard in Black Hawk Down. There may be a better choice, but I think its an ok one

[Superhero 101]

I would love to see a leadership issue between Stark and Steve

[jab1118]

I would like to see an issue maybe at first and during an early battle Stark kind of tries to do things on his own and screws things up and the only way they get out of it is Steve takes things over mid battle and starts giving out orders possibly while Iron man is hurt and salvages the battle. Clearly showing that Cap is the much more qualified leader of the group

[WillardNation]

^^I wouldn't mind something like that.

[Superhero 101]

yeah or something like what happened in Ultimate Avengers Where Stark goes to rescue Wasp and screws up.

[protocida]

I think Stark is too experienced to screw up. I prefer Cap naturally taking over command during the final fight, and Iron Man acknowledging he's better for the job.

[goldenboy]

Sorry if this was posted elsewhere. This seems unlikely...but who knows...

Could Tim Roth's Abomination return in a new movie?


http://scifiwire.com/assets_c/2009/01/IncredibleHulk_abomination-thumb-550x335-10712.jpg


Tim Roth, who played Emil Blonsky/The Abomination in last year's The Incredible Hulk, confirmed that Marvel has made overtures to him about reprising the role in future movies, possibly including the upcoming Avengers film.

"They have, but in a very different way," Roth said in a group interview at the Television Critics Association summer press tour Thursday in Pasadena, Calif., where he was promoting his Fox series Lie to Me. "I don't want to get into it, but they signed me up for three [films]."


http://scifiwire.com/assets_c/2009/08/Lie_to_me_Tim_roth_TCA-thumb-550x361-22036.jpg
Tim Roth at the TCA summer press tour on Thursday


Could that include two more Hulks, one Avengers and one Hulk or just two Avengers?

"It could be anything," Roth said in response.

Marvel has said that its upcoming Avengers film will feature Iron Man, Thor and Captain America once they are established in their own film franchises. Other Marvel characters who have films under different production deals are less certain.

The Incredible Hulk did end with a scene of Iron Man's Tony Stark (Robert Downey Jr.) approaching Gen. "Thunderbolt" Ross (William Hurt) about the team he's putting together.

For his part, Hulk's Bruce Banner, Edward Norton, has remained tight-lipped about his own involvement in the Avengers mashup.

The Avengers is in preproduction with an eye to a planned May 4, 2012, release.
http://scifiwire.com/2009/08/could-tim-roths-abominati.php

[WillardNation]

^^Interesting. But if they're gonna bring back Abomination, what do they need Roth for? Flashbacks? Are they gonna turn him back to normal?

[Spider-Vader]

I think he did Abomination's voice except they made it deeper.

I'm glad, Abomination was awesome in TIH.

[Venom'sDad]

Hmmmm........

[Son of Coul]

If they used Abomination without Hulk that'd be incredigay.

[protocida]

I'm not surprised that Abomination might be in it. If Loki is really going to be the villain, and the Hulk will obviously unite the Avengers during the movie, some powerhouses will be needed to fight the team. If Whiplash makes it troughout Iron Man 2, I bet he'll be in it as well. Maybe Executor?

[Docker2.0]

Maybe all the villains from the Marvel films will be in it, including Iron Monger. :dry:

[FaT_tONle]

I'm not surprised that Abomination might be in it. If Loki is really going to be the villain, and the Hulk will obviously unite the Avengers during the movie, some powerhouses will be needed to fight the team. If Whiplash makes it troughout Iron Man 2, I bet he'll be in it as well. Maybe Executor?

I don't know why everyone is penciling in Loki as the sure fire villain at this point. Abomination or Leader or both are equally as likely.

[Venom'sDad]

I don't know why everyone is penciling in Loki as the sure fire villain at this point. Abomination or Leader or both are equally as likely.
I think for obvious reasons; but I agree with your point. One thing that could very well be possible is the Leader creating a small force of villains using Banner's blood. Like Rampage, Wendego, Absorbing Man, Bi-Beast, the Glob, etc. I think you all get the point. It's highly unlikely; but a possibility none the less.

[spideyboy_1111]

I don't know why everyone is penciling in Loki as the sure fire villain at this point. Abomination or Leader or both are equally as likely.

If you honestly think a mindless hulking beast is going to be the "main" antagonist against the avengers.. a creature hulk took down all by himself... you have no sense of story telling at all.. and I pray marvel has more up there sleeves then that....

[Son of Coul]

spidey, I found your head and it was lodged rather far up your ass. Just because he suggested Abomination could be in the movie, doesn't mean he has "no sense of storytelling." That statement doesn't even make any sense so stop trying to look like you know what you're talking about because you don't. :)

[protocida]

Abomination as the only villain would be kind of a disappointment.

Maybe a Loki/Leader team-up?

[spideyboy_1111]

spidey, I found your head and it was lodged rather far up your ass. Just because he suggested Abomination could be in the movie, doesn't mean he has "no sense of storytelling." That statement doesn't even make any sense so stop trying to look like you know what you're talking about because you don't. :)

listen here jr. :o he clearly stated abomination stood just as much chance as loki as being the "sure fire" villain in the film. He said "the sure fire villain" That means main villiain. abomination could def show up as a villain, but not a main villain. That is my point.

and by the way... why are you looking in my ass?

[protocida]

Let's not fight.

[spideyboy_1111]

Abomination as the only villain would be kind of a disappointment.

Maybe a Loki/Leader team-up?

i could def see a loki/leader team up.

Infact i hope mandarin is hinted at even more so in ironman 2... so in the first avengers, he can be a "shady" figure who gives birth to the Master of Evil (just call them the Thunderbolts or something though, so the name's not cheesy), but it could consist of... Mandarin hinted but not shown, Loki, Leader, Abomination, Strucker & Hydra, Whiplash.

[protocida]

I prefer the Masters of Terror in The Avengers 2.

Red Skull, Mandarin, Loki, Leader, Absorving-man, Crimson Dynamo and Abomination, aided by Hydra.

[spideyboy_1111]

I prefer the Masters of Terror in The Avengers 2.

Red Skull, Mandarin, Loki, Leader, Absorving-man, Crimson Dynamo and Abomination, aided by Hydra.

well would whiplash become crimson dynamo then? since whiplash is aparently a combo of both?

[protocida]

Yeah.

I'm also a big fan of the Liberators (Protocida, Crimson Dynamo, Abomination, Perun, Hurricane, Swarm, Black Widow, Schizoid-Man and Loki) from "The Ultimates Vol. 2".

[FaT_tONle]

spidey, I found your head and it was lodged rather far up your ass. Just because he suggested Abomination could be in the movie, doesn't mean he has "no sense of storytelling." That statement doesn't even make any sense so stop trying to look like you know what you're talking about because you don't. :)

Thanks man... could not have said it better myself.

listen here jr. :o he clearly stated abomination stood just as much chance as loki as being the "sure fire" villain in the film. He said "the sure fire villain" That means main villiain. abomination could def show up as a villain, but not a main villain. That is my point.

and by the way... why are you looking in my ass?

No it doesnt... it means any villain that is very likely to appear. Leader is equally capable of having a tie-in to the Hulk and Abomination could return again, (and Roth was quoted recently that he was signed for additional films). You guys want to think Marvel is taking page for page out of the 1st issue of Avengers then keep believing that. The fact that Feige hasn't even confirmed the Pyms yet show me they are really following that plot outline to a "T"... :whatever:

[Katsuro]

He said "the sure fire villain" That means main villiain.

In what world is that true?

[WillardNation]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/herocomplex/2009/08/leterriers-dream-an-avengers-epic-told-in-four-films-over-one-summer-.html

I like his idea about "the avengers summer", that would be cool as ****.

[protocida]

It'd be cool, but expensive as hell.

[Spider-Vader]

That'd be awesome, but it'd never happen.

[Docker2.0]

I don't have a clue how they will do this movie but I will be so happy when things finally come together. I haven't been this excited since I rediscovered bacon.

[Aztec]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/herocomplex/2009/08/leterriers-dream-an-avengers-epic-told-in-four-films-over-one-summer-.html

I like his idea about "the avengers summer", that would be cool as ****.

That would be cool but that would be WAY to risky of a business move. Besides they are pretty much doing that just over 4 years, not one summer.

[Tcrumzz]

if pixar did an avengers movie they could totally do a liberators wich i think would be awsome cuz at least everyone could match up instead of an 8?-1 movie. but not conflict with the live action take on them

[Keyser Soze]

Brian Michael Bendis talks a little about The Avengers and Thor:
http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2009/10/bendis-dark-reign-ending-siege-starts-in-december/

[jarosso]

Hawkeye colors by Photoshop, looks good for me, What do you think?
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/1161/hawkeye.jpg

[jarosso]

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/1161/hawkeye.jpg

[Wolvieboy17]

^^I do like how that looks, but they maybe should tone down the purple a bit for the movie... I reckon make most of that black, but with purple highlights or features...

Alternatively, I wouldnt mind either if they went for a redesign, rather than go the Ultimates route... Something more military/black ops would be cool. Maybe just not leather, and a bit more webbing, but similar design.

[spideyboy_1111]

ill be very interested to see how hawkeye ends up looking... i mean so far every heroe under marvel's own studio has looked like its comic counterpart. obviously hawkeye wont, but he should definitely resemble him.

[Wolvieboy17]

Yeah, it's gonna be hard for them to justify him as a guy with a bow and arrow on a team with a super soldier, and hi tech suit of armor and a thunder god. I think the safest way to do it would just go the black ops route, making him a master marksman, who just particularly favours the bow and arrow... That way he can kinda use all forms of weaponry, but use the bow and arrow for key scenes, or stealth missions.

[spideyboy_1111]

Yeah, it's gonna be hard for them to justify him as a guy with a bow and arrow on a team with a super soldier, and hi tech suit of armor and a thunder god. I think the safest way to do it would just go the black ops route, making him a master marksman, who just particularly favours the bow and arrow... That way he can kinda use all forms of weaponry, but use the bow and arrow for key scenes, or stealth missions.

that's most likely what we will see i'd assume. Hell i felt they pulled it off well with Abigail Whistler in Blade Trinity. However it also wouldn't surprise me if he used other weapons throughout the movie, maybe more ronin then hawkeye sadly... but he'd have a big moment where he brought out his big bow.... I could easily see it going both ways.. but i'd much rather him only use his bow and arrow mostly.

[Wolvieboy17]

Yeah, I can totally see him doing something near the end, where like a main villain has a gun to caps head or something, and at the last second an arrow goes whistling into his hand, pinning it to a wall or something... that'd be cool... Or like, hitting the disarm button on a bomb 2 seconds before detonation lol... Something classic like that would be funny...

What i'd love to see is a black ops style scene like in the end of the Tom Jane Punisher, where he sneaks into the Mafia bar with the bow and arrow

[Aesop Rocks]

I really hope they keep the humor and seriousness of Clint and incorporate it into the film. Renner was so great in Hurt Locker.

[spideyboy_1111]

... not really sure why hawkeye would be going after the mafia.... lol

[Wolvieboy17]

Lol you know what i meant... not him taking on the mafia, but like a stealthy picking off of enemies, one by one with the bow and arrow. If you've seen that scene of the Punisher, you'd know what i mean.

[spideyboy_1111]

i know what you mean, just giving you a hard time... and please.... i own like every marvel movie.

[Wolvieboy17]

Even Ghost Rider?

[spideyboy_1111]

even man-thing...

[Wolvieboy17]

Ouch. Thats dedication.

[Venom'sDad]

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/1161/hawkeye.jpg
Nice

[jab1118]

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/1161/hawkeye.jpg
Not bad hes exactly who I thought of when Renner explained what hawkeye would look like. However I agree with wolvie I expect that it will mostly be black whith some purple trimming and highlights

[Chewy]

Who will wield the shield?

The answer of whom will hold Captain America’s shield and play alter ego Steve Rogers is still in Marvel’s hands, but the list of actors is being whittled down.

Wilson Bethel, who starred in HBO’s “Generation Kill” and currently appear ing in “The Young and the Restless,” is still in the running as is Mike Vogel, who appeared in “Cloverfield” and CBS’ “Miami Medical.”

Meanwhile, Chris Evans, currently shooting "Safety Point" in Texas, has read for the part and has a test offer which may come to fruition next week. Garrett Hedlund has not tested yet though Marvel is very keen on him.

Actors previously reported as testing including John Krasinski, Michael Cassidy, Chace Crawford, among others, are no longer on the list.

The part calls for a nine-picture deal, the second of which would be the “Avengers” movie. That project could start shooting as soon as January 2011.

Taking a shot on relative unknowns such as Bethel and Vogel is not out of the realm of possibility as many tentpoles and franchises are handing out the keys to up-and-comers. Paramount and J.J. Abrams took a chance on Chris Pine to play Capt. Kirk while James Cameron put his trust in Sam Worthington.SOURCE (http://www.heatvisionblog.com/2010/03/captain-america-casting-update.html)


:awesome::awesome::awesome::awesome::awesome:

[Son of Coul]

I doubt it will, but if so that's way cool. That means we could have a director by the end of the year! :awesome:

[Chewy]

Hopefully we have a director long before the end of the year. Mid-summer is what I'm expecting (if they intend to keep that 2012 date, that is, which they may not)

[Iceman]

Yeah, need a director before the end of summer to start shooting on Jan 11. At least the casting guy will have a big headstart!

[FaT_tONle]

We need a director by the summer if they shoot that early. You usually need at least 6 months of prep alone for a project like this.

[LightningFlash]

Nine-picture deal featuring Captain America as well?

Captain America
Avengers
Nick Fury?
Captain America 2
Avengers 2
Captain America 3?
Avengers 3?

Hrm...what else?

Could we be getting a Civil War-esque film? Lol.

[LostSon88]

Does anyone really see The Avengers becoming a series? I honestly think it'll be a one-time deal.

I think RDJ will be done after he completes IM3...I mean if they do decide to turn The Avengers into a series of films RDJ will be in his early to mid-50s by the time they start rolling out the follow-ups. :wow:

[Son of Coul]

I think Avengers 2 or IM3 should be RDJ's last appearance in the MCU, and Cap could disappear for a little while as they make way for Marvel to shift the focus to newer franchises like Iron Fist and Luke Cage, Black Panther, Dr. Strange, etc.

...until one day they do a Civil War movie and feature IM and Cap back in the leads as their swan songs to the MCU.

[Iceman]

Exactly! After the 1st Avengers, there will be a lot of new characters & any of the original guys can take a back seat. He could still show up in a small role or cameo.

[Son of Coul]

Definitely. But I think at one point he should just kind of disappear for a few movies, that way the anticipation and significance of his return is elevated.

[Iceman]

Wouldn't have a problem with that. Much more chance of sequels when you don't NEED a whole list of specific actors every time.

[LightningFlash]

So, they could go from the first version of Avengers, and then when a new threat comes aboard, Nick Fury goes on to look for New Avengers?

[Son of Coul]

That could be good, just not for the second. I think there should be at least two Avengers movies with the core team of Cap, IM, and Thor. Then once all these other characters are established they can get new guys.

[LightningFlash]

Oh, God no, I didn't mean New Avengers for Avengers 2 at all. I think, if we get two or three Avenger films(with Iron Man, Hulk, Thor, Captain America, War Machine, Black Widow, Hawkeye, Nick Fury, maybe the Pyms), then I think they will all tie up to one interlocking storyline, such as Masters of Evil first, and then maybe that is a calling card for an alien invasion. Or perhaps, just have the first Avenger films solely about the Masters of Evil(with the first one about Loki controlling Hulk and maybe along with Abomination, then Loki and Mandarin teams up with maybe Ultimo), and then Stark and Cap leave, as well as the other guys, and then when an alien attack hits Earth, much like the Ultimate Avengers animated movie, S.H.I.E.L.D. tells Fury to start the Avenger Initiative/Program once again, but with new guys(Luke Cage, Black Panther, Dr. Strange, maybe members of the Fantastic Four such as Richard and Sue).

[Antonello Blueberry]

Speculations from a Marvel insider
http://www.latinoreview.com/news/captain-america-the-avengers-exclusive-marvel-secrets-from-insiders-part-iii-9445

[FaT_tONle]

Does anyone really see The Avengers becoming a series? I honestly think it'll be a one-time deal.

I think RDJ will be done after he completes IM3...I mean if they do decide to turn The Avengers into a series of films RDJ will be in his early to mid-50s by the time they start rolling out the follow-ups. :wow:

Yeah it will be a series me thinks... Stark hangs up the armor after IM3, maybe keep Rhodey around for Avengers 2. If not, replace IM, WM, Hulk with Hawkeye and the Pyms in the sequel. Add Vision later. Cap can be the poster boy ala Wolverine. Thor can be a staple but he doesn't need to be in all three movies. Just poke around with the roster every film. Kind of early to talk sequels when the first movie is still over 2 years away but I'd go:

Avengers Disassembled:

Roster: Cap, WM, BW, Hawkeye, Pyms
Villains: Ultron/Vision

Stark hangs up the suit. Thor goes away for a while to do whatever happens in Thor 2. Banner/Hulks whereabouts remain unknown. Pyms robots supersedes Stark Industries as the new frontier in cutting edge robotics before everything goes to hell.

Avengers Forever

Roster: Cap, Thor, Vision, Hawkeye, Pyms, Scarlet Witch, Quick Silver
Villains: Kang and/or Skrulls

[Aztec]

Speculations from a Marvel insider
http://www.latinoreview.com/news/captain-america-the-avengers-exclusive-marvel-secrets-from-insiders-part-iii-9445

This third part was quite a let down. The first two interviews were so good and informative. This is just total speculation.

[CASTER]

Ackles for HAWKEYE!!!

And HELL NO to the HUMAN TORCH as CAP!

[CASTER]

Oh yeah....

HANK & JAN is a MUST in the AVENGERS, without them it ain't the AVENGERS!!!

S.A.A.D @ One of your favorite cbm's is Punisher War Zone??!

That says it all lol!

[FaT_tONle]

I don't think the Pyms will make the cut if they already have BW and WM on the roster. You'd be pushing almost ten members if you count Hawkeye as well. If it's just the original 6 then it could work.

[Doctor Jones]

I think for the first film it should just center on the big four with Fury leading them. In the sequel put in Hawkeye and Black Widow or something. Don't overload it. The first film has to deal with the formation of the team and their camraderie. Abrams ST is a great model to follow for this film.

And Christ, am I the only person in the world who doesn't want Ant Man or Wasp anywhere near this film?

[Son of Coul]

I could see BW and Hawkeye being SHIELD agents who help out, rather than be part of the Avengers themselves. As far as Ant-Man and Wasp, I think if they need scientists in the movie to do anything, the Pyms are the way to go, just don't play them up so much and have Edgar Wright involved in their casting.

But as far as the Avengers themselves go, have it be Cap, Thor, and IM commissioned by Fury, with the Hulk helping them out without being an actual full-time team member due to being a liability.

They shouldn't overload it. We've seen that bigger is not always better and when you really want to make a movie huge with everyone's favorite characters after so much buildup there is such a thing as trying too hard- see X3, SM3, XO:W.

[Doctor Jones]

I've been thinking of Hulk's story for the film. How should he be presented. I'm not crazy about the idea of him being mind cotnrolled by Loki. I always thought they would capture him with force in the mountains, and throw Banner's ass in a cell. Then the whole issue of trust arrises with the team and how to use Banner. Maybe Cap sees the good in him while Stark sees him as a potential threat. Just think of RDJ facing Norton in a cell with them talking.

[dpm07]

i know what you mean, just giving you a hard time... and please.... i own like every marvel movie.

Even Howard The Duck?

[Son of Coul]

I've been thinking of Hulk's story for the film. How should he be presented. I'm not crazy about the idea of him being mind cotnrolled by Loki. I always thought they would capture him with force in the mountains, and throw Banner's ass in a cell. Then the whole issue of trust arrises with the team and how to use Banner. Maybe Cap sees the good in him while Stark sees him as a potential threat. Just think of RDJ facing Norton in a cell with them talking.
Yeah I think that's what they should do too, but it could easily work with the mind-controlled Hulk aspect too.

[ImWithTeamConan]

I've always speculated that we'd have a "mind controlled" Hulk in this movie but at the end of TIH, Stark is going to Ross already and they're already discussing Hulk as a problem.

Going with what other posters have said, I think it would be a great way to start the movie, with a big ass Hulk fight scene, then throwing him in jail and unleashing him at the end of the movie against the major villain.

[Silvermoth]

How good it is to know Ed Norton will come back happily! I wonder if the person he mentioned who left might be David Maisal, fired by Disney.

I can't wait to see how Loki manipulates the Hulk into being a target for the Avengers.

Oh and speaking of that interview, did that guy really just mention Janet Pym? Maybe she will be in the Avengers film after all?

[Chewy]

"The main guy I had a beef with there left anyways, as always happens," he admitted. "As David Mamet said, 'Just wait 'em out cause they'll be gone, and you'll still be there.'"
Terrence Howard? :hehe:

[ImWithTeamConan]

How good it is to know Ed Norton will come back happily! I wonder if the person he mentioned who left might be David Maisal, fired by Disney.

I can't wait to see how Loki manipulates the Hulk into being a target for the Avengers.

Oh and speaking of that interview, did that guy really just mention Janet Pym? Maybe she will be in the Avengers film after all?

Who is David Maisal? And what was Norton's problem with him?

[Iceman]

I don't think the Pyms will make the cut if they already have BW and WM on the roster. You'd be pushing almost ten members if you count Hawkeye as well. If it's just the original 6 then it could work.Yeah, any more than the big 4 & a couple of cameos would be too much.

I think for the first film it should just center on the big four with Fury leading them. In the sequel put in Hawkeye and Black Widow or something. Don't overload it. The first film has to deal with the formation of the team and their camraderie. Abrams ST is a great model to follow for this film.

And Christ, am I the only person in the world who doesn't want Ant Man or Wasp anywhere near this film?Nope lol, unless they are in small cameo non-outfitted roles. I wouldn't mind seeing Hawkeye & Black Widow in costume though, again only small roles.

I could see BW and Hawkeye being SHIELD agents who help out, rather than be part of the Avengers themselves. As far as Ant-Man and Wasp, I think if they need scientists in the movie to do anything, the Pyms are the way to go, just don't play them up so much and have Edgar Wright involved in their casting.

But as far as the Avengers themselves go, have it be Cap, Thor, and IM commissioned by Fury, with the Hulk helping them out without being an actual full-time team member due to being a liability.

They shouldn't overload it. We've seen that bigger is not always better and when you really want to make a movie huge with everyone's favorite characters after so much buildup there is such a thing as trying too hard- see X3, SM3, XO:W.Agreed. SHIELD agent & scientist roles sound like good ways to include these guys.

[Venomfan]

i'm against Hulk being used as a villain/mind controlled because it will make Thor look like a pussy. Hulk shouldnt be a threat that takes the whole Avengers to take down, just Thor for a balanced fight

[Iron_Stark]

i'm against Hulk being used as a villain/mind controlled because it will make Thor look like a pussy. Hulk shouldnt be a threat that takes the whole Avengers to take down, just Thor for a balanced fight


I agree. :up:

The real threat should be something HUGE.

[Nirvana]

So it's pretty much safe to say that Norton is back?

[FaT_tONle]

I'm confused, I didn't see anything in that interview confirming Norton's return.

[Sawyer]

Yeah, there's really no confirmation there. He's just hoping that door is still open.

[Whiskey Tango]

At least he seems open to the idea, which is more than I expected after hearing all those reports of disagreements with....whoever it was.

I'm watching Incredible Hulk right now and I think it's aces. I really like it and Ed was a big part of that. I'd love to see him involved again down the line.

[mclay18]

I think RDJ will be done after he completes IM3...I mean if they do decide to turn The Avengers into a series of films RDJ will be in his early to mid-50s by the time they start rolling out the follow-ups. :wow:

I'm sure RDJ wouldn't rule out returning to do more Marvel films after completing his four-film contract. But his asking price would be much, much higher -- his asking fee after IM's success is around $12M for each movie. (I'm sure he'll be willing to negotiate a lower fee if he loved the project and/or decided on a backend deal.) Marvel should consider themselves lucky for locking RDJ and these other actors into these multi-film contracts, otherwise the production budgets for these pics would just skyrocket out of control.

[Silvermoth]

Who is David Maisal? And what was Norton's problem with him?

David Maisal was vice president of Marvel Studios and Executive Vice President of Corporate Development of Marvel Entertainment and was believed to be instrumental in making Marvel studios become independent. When Disney bought Marvel he was "encouraged to step down" so that Kevin Feige would answer to only one man, Walt Disney Studios chairman, Rich Ross.

source : http://www.superherohype.com/news/ironmannews.php?id=8895

When I heard the news, I assumed Norton was hinting at Maisal since he worked on Incredible Hulk and is now absent. Might not be him though. For all I know, Maisal and he were good friends and someone else might have been the one to cause problems.

[ImWithTeamConan]

If anything I always thought Norton had beef with Penn for "stealing" his writing credit.

[Doctor Jones]

He didn't steal it. If anything it was the MPAA's fault for giving Penn credit.

[Doctor Jones]

Yeah, any more than the big 4 & a couple of cameos would be too much.

Nope lol, unless they are in small cameo non-outfitted roles. I wouldn't mind seeing Hawkeye & Black Widow in costume though, again only small roles.

Agreed. SHIELD agent & scientist roles sound like good ways to include these guys.

I just can't take a team seriously when they have heroes that are the size of my thumb. It's laughable. I'd stay the hell away from them.

And I agree, maybe Pym could be a scientist, nothing more. I don't even need to see an Ant Man movie. What amazes me is a stupid character like that can be made into a film before WW or Flash.

[Blackman]

I just can't take a team seriously when they have heroes that are the size of my thumb. It's laughable. I'd stay the hell away from them.

And I agree, maybe Pym could be a scientist, nothing more. I don't even need to see an Ant Man movie. What amazes me is a stupid character like that can be made into a film before WW or Flash.
I agree w..I'm hoping Pym turns into Giant Man/Goliath not Ant Man. I mean at least Janet turns into something that can fly and shoot energy beams.

[kedrell]

I just can't take a team seriously when they have heroes that are the size of my thumb. It's laughable. I'd stay the hell away from them.

And I agree, maybe Pym could be a scientist, nothing more. I don't even need to see an Ant Man movie. What amazes me is a stupid character like that can be made into a film before WW or Flash.


So I take it you don't like the Atom either, then.

[Iceman]

i'm against Hulk being used as a villain/mind controlled because it will make Thor look like a pussy. Hulk shouldnt be a threat that takes the whole Avengers to take down, just Thor for a balanced fightI would like to see Hulk Vs Thor one on one with Thor very much holding his own but failing to contain Hulk..& then Stark & Cap show up & assist.

I just can't take a team seriously when they have heroes that are the size of my thumb. It's laughable. I'd stay the hell away from them.

And I agree, maybe Pym could be a scientist, nothing more. I don't even need to see an Ant Man movie. What amazes me is a stupid character like that can be made into a film before WW or Flash.Giant Man might be ok. As for an Ant Man film, they would probably make it a bit of a comedy. But seriously where's WW & Flash?!! :cmad:

[Kirmit]

i'm against Hulk being used as a villain/mind controlled because it will make Thor look like a pussy. Hulk shouldnt be a threat that takes the whole Avengers to take down, just Thor for a balanced fight

I disagree, it's the way it was done in the comics and it worked fine then. It is possible to have the whole team take him on and not make thor look like a pussy, maybe have Thor try to take the hulk on alone but realise Hulk is just that bit too much for him to handle on his own and so the team works together to defeat him.

[Hush]

I agree w..I'm hoping Pym turns into Giant Man/Goliath not Ant Man. I mean at least Janet turns into something that can fly and shoot energy beams.

Goliath is a totally Different character.

[Blackman]

Goliath is Pym right? Doesnt he grow large just like in his Giant Man form.
I know Hawkeye did his Goliath thing for some time, but Pym was the first Goliath right?

[kedrell]

Wasn't Pym Giant-Man and Hawkeye was Goliath?

[Rock Sexton]

Norton Now More Likely to Return for "The Avengers"?

http://screenrant.com/ed-norton-hulk-2-the-avengers-roster-rob-48353/

[Aesop Rocks]

I bet he'll come back.

[Doctor Jones]

So I take it you don't like the Atom either, then.

Nope. Only in something like TBATB but I can't take characters like that seriously at all.

And seeing a giant man is just as bad as Ant Man. I mean come on. A Giant man in a live action film. It's laughable.

I hope Norton comes back too. I'm already seeing Evans (hopefully) RDJ, Norton, and Helmsworth together.

[kedrell]

Evans? Nuts. Pure nuts. Keep him away from these movies. And a giant is ok as long as it's handled right. It's mainly in the execution, IMO.

[Doctor Jones]

How is it nuts? Because he played a wisecracking Johnny Storm in FF movies the average joe isn't even going to care about when Cap comes out?

I'd rather much have that instead of a man the size of Godzilla walking in city streets.

[Artistsean]

With the news that Norton is willing to return, he could play the Hulk (semi main villain) of the Avengers movie who is manipulated by Loki to attack the Avengers (and in the end helps them defeat Loki).

So Bruce/Hulk is maipulated by Loki to attack the Avengers (and brings the team together for their first mission) and then teams up with them to stop Loki.
The Avengers could try to get Hulk to join them but he ends up being too much of a loose chaotic uncontrollable creature of destruction. And leaves the team before he is even really a member.

Plus, maybe he can continue being the Hulk in solo films, like the sequal with the Leader!

[Venomfan]

I disagree, it's the way it was done in the comics and it worked fine then. It is possible to have the whole team take him on and not make thor look like a pussy, maybe have Thor try to take the hulk on alone but realise Hulk is just that bit too much for him to handle on his own and so the team works together to defeat him.
a guy that has a higher base strength than Hulk and a whole crap load of other powers needing help from the others does make him look weak. they should at least be even. and Cap would be absolutely useless except as a distraction lol

[WillardNation]

They could just all the Avengers minus Thor are battling Hulk but he's too much for them, then Thor comes to help them and that's how he joins the team.

[Artistsean]

What the Avengers movie can do is have the Hulk get manipulated by Loki somehow into attacking the Avengers. Then the Avengers (with the might of Iron Man, Thor, Giant Man, as well as Wasp and Captain America) along with SHIELD perhaps fight the Hulk to a stand still, where the Hulk could get nearly beaten but keep coming back. (Perhaps Loki also keeps Thor's powers even to match the Hulk too.) Somehow, eventually, they figure out Loki is behind it. Hulk isn't really a team player, but joins the Avengers to fight Loki because he is angry at Loki for using him.
The fight could be similar to the Ultimate Avenger's fight. Captain America, while not physically strong enough for the Hulk is an excellent team leader on the battle field telling people where to go and what to do. Plus his reflexes and combat skills help him at least stay alive and defending himself during the fight.

[Rock Sexton]

With the news that Norton is willing to return, he could play the Hulk (semi main villain) of the Avengers movie who is manipulated by Loki to attack the Avengers (and in the end helps them defeat Loki).

So Bruce/Hulk is maipulated by Loki to attack the Avengers (and brings the team together for their first mission) and then teams up with them to stop Loki.
The Avengers could try to get Hulk to join them but he ends up being too much of a loose chaotic uncontrollable creature of destruction. And leaves the team before he is even really a member.

Plus, maybe he can continue being the Hulk in solo films, like the sequal with the Leader!

I see no reason why they couldn't put together a baddy list of Loki, Hydra w/Red Skull, and the Leader as the baddies of the Avengers.

[Artistsean]

They may want to limit the number of bad guys to keep it simple, so they could focus more on the Avengers, as individuals and as a team, and the formation of the team. So they wouldn't have to spend much screen time focusing on introducing the bad guys or explaining them. But With Red Skull showing up in Captain America and Loki in Thor, maybe it wouldn't be to complicated to use them either.

[Kirmit]

a guy that has a higher base strength than Hulk and a whole crap load of other powers needing help from the others does make him look weak. they should at least be even. and Cap would be absolutely useless except as a distraction lol

Needing help does not automatically make him weak, like I said just give Hulk that little advantage over Thor where he needs the rest of the avengers to give him the edge over hulk. As for the actual battle, you can keep it fairly balanced, each trading blows, injuring the other but Hulk having that slight advantage, likely being he's getting angrier at how much Thor can hurt him and so is getting stronger. I know people like to think Thor is a god and so Hulk should be no threat to him but over the years out of the fights they've had Hulk has won the majority of them as shown here http://www.leaderslair.com/gammapeople/hulksmashes/hulksmashes.html. Obviously these fights took place years ago and not with each character at their current power levels, so the outcome now may be different.

[CaptainStacy]

I don't think the Pyms will make the cut if they already have BW and WM on the roster. You'd be pushing almost ten members if you count Hawkeye as well. If it's just the original 6 then it could work.

Who says War Machine is on the roster? :huh:

Or Black Widow, for that matter?

[CaptainStacy]

I just can't take a team seriously when they have heroes that are the size of my thumb. It's laughable. I'd stay the hell away from them.

And I agree, maybe Pym could be a scientist, nothing more. I don't even need to see an Ant Man movie. What amazes me is a stupid character like that can be made into a film before WW or Flash.

Have you ever even READ any issues of the Avengers?

Let me suggest volume one, issue #161. You'll see just how effective Ant-Man is in battle.

[Secretwarrior]

Just had a thought with all the Hulk speculation. I doubt the film team will use that plot only because it has been suggested since iron man 1 came out. I feel they might want to do something different.

So how about this... Hulk is rampaging countryside, Avengers team up to stop him. They get whooped. Bruce Banner is apprehended somehow and reveals the rampaging Hulk is not him. Turns out Leader used all that gamma blood to make a hulk clone. Fake Hulk meets real hulk, leader releases more monsters to keep the Avengers busy and you know the rest.

I figure fake hulk could be red right away. Fans would know the deal right away. Tony could think Hulk is going nuclear hence the color change. (And yes I borrowed plot points from Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla 1970's and Godzilla vs Destroyer LOL).

Also would love a trailer where we see Iron man looking towards us, saying something funny about some threat he's facing, pull back to reveal Thor answer him, pull back/pan to see Cap say something, and finally pull back to see Norton finish the little scene. Just my 2 cents :)

[dcHulk]

So how about this... Hulk is rampaging countryside, Avengers team up to stop him. They get whooped. Bruce Banner is apprehended somehow and reveals the rampaging Hulk is not him. Turns out Leader used all that gamma blood to make a hulk clone. Fake Hulk meets real hulk, leader releases more monsters to keep the Avengers busy and you know the rest.

I figure fake hulk could be red right away. Fans would know the deal right away. Tony could think Hulk is going nuclear hence the color change. (And yes I borrowed plot points from Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla 1970's and Godzilla vs Destroyer LOL).


Sorry bro, I'm just not feeling that one. I'm not even sure if the Leader would be a part of this movie.

[Blackman]

Who says War Machine is on the roster? :huh:

Or Black Widow, for that matter?
CHeadle and JOhannson are both signed on to appear

[Doctor Jones]

I hope they're not too big of roles. The film should focus only ona limited amount of characters. Namely, Cap, IM, Hulk, and Thor.

[Blackman]

I hope Johannson is...but not Cheadle.
It's kind of redundant having two heroes (WM and IM) that are so similar in the line up.
I just hope a bunch of SHIELD agents get to see some action not just the Avengers

[FaT_tONle]

Who says War Machine is on the roster? :huh:

Or Black Widow, for that matter?

They were signed for multi-picture deals with Avengers in mind... we have heard nothing regarding the Pyms in forever.

Just had a thought with all the Hulk speculation. I doubt the film team will use that plot only because it has been suggested since iron man 1 came out. I feel they might want to do something different.

So how about this... Hulk is rampaging countryside, Avengers team up to stop him. They get whooped. Bruce Banner is apprehended somehow and reveals the rampaging Hulk is not him. Turns out Leader used all that gamma blood to make a hulk clone. Fake Hulk meets real hulk, leader releases more monsters to keep the Avengers busy and you know the rest.

I figure fake hulk could be red right away. Fans would know the deal right away. Tony could think Hulk is going nuclear hence the color change. (And yes I borrowed plot points from Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla 1970's and Godzilla vs Destroyer LOL).

Also would love a trailer where we see Iron man looking towards us, saying something funny about some threat he's facing, pull back to reveal Thor answer him, pull back/pan to see Cap say something, and finally pull back to see Norton finish the little scene. Just my 2 cents :)

Leader gamma ray army is a total buy if done right... providing the muscle for HYDRA against the Avengers. Maybe Pym's robots to turn the tide in the end... not sure how or if I'd work Loki in there as well... but Leader's army alone is a legitimate threat.

[ImWithTeamConan]

I could see War Machine popping up at the end of the movie against the "big bad".

The thing that I'm curious about is whether or not they'll have another villain other than Loki and/or Hulk. Will we see something "new"? Might be a bit of a retread to see Loki as the villain again a year after Thor comes out.

[Nathan]

From a logical standpoint, it would make sense to have Warmachine on the team. S.H.I.E.L.D. is putting together a team of powerful heroes, whatever reason could there be not to add someone who's on the Governments payroll and has a powersuit?

Heck, they could probably assemble various teams for different situations. Like putting Widow, Warmachine and whoever else there is into a team, for missions that require more of a militaristic or covert ops approach, while the main group constisting of Captain America, Iron Man, Thor and Hulk are public heroes that are loved by the masses.

[Blackman]

I'm hoping the roster is

The heroes
Iron Man
Cap
Thor
Hawkeye
The Pyms

SHIELD agents
Black Widow
Fury
Sharon Carter
Coulson
Sam Wilson (later Falcon)
Jimmy Woo
Dum DUm Dugan

[Venomfan]

From a logical standpoint, it would make sense to have Warmachine on the team. S.H.I.E.L.D. is putting together a team of powerful heroes, whatever reason could there be not to add someone who's on the Governments payroll and has a powersuit?.

id like to see the original team first, maybe have warmachine have to stay back because of some threat at home that he can handle alone so only Iron Man joins

[Dr. Sid Jawtug]

Can the Kirby family suing for the funds of Iron Man, Spider Man, Cap effect the Avengers and other Marvel movie properties in any way?

[Eros]

From a logical standpoint, it would make sense to have Warmachine on the team. S.H.I.E.L.D. is putting together a team of powerful heroes, whatever reason could there be not to add someone who's on the Governments payroll and has a powersuit?

Heck, they could probably assemble various teams for different situations. Like putting Widow, Warmachine and whoever else there is into a team, for missions that require more of a militaristic or covert ops approach, while the main group constisting of Captain America, Iron Man, Thor and Hulk are public heroes that are loved by the masses.

Hulk Loved By the massses??? LMAO

[spideyboy_1111]

CHeadle and JOhannson are both signed on to appear

not in avengers persay. just multiple role deals. though Johannson is far more likely to appear in the avengers film over cheadle

[Blackman]

not in avengers persay. just multiple role deals. thought Johannson is far more likely to appear in the avengers film over cheadle
No Cheadle is actually signed on to appear in Avengers
http://www.slashfilm.com/2008/10/28/robert-downey-jr-and-don-cheadle-sign-on-for-the-avengers/

You're right about Johannson though

[ImWithTeamConan]

Thor
Captain America
Iron Man
Hulk
Black Widow
Hawkeye
Nick Fury
War Machine

That's a lot of characters. I think we'll only get Loki as a villain or another "singular" vision.

[spideyboy_1111]

No Cheadle is actually signed on to appear in Avengers
http://www.slashfilm.com/2008/10/28/robert-downey-jr-and-don-cheadle-sign-on-for-the-avengers/

You're right about Johannson though

well signed on doesnt always mean there going to be used... but yeah i could easily see cheadle appearing, doesnt mean war machine will though, or even play a large part

[rashad]

Edward Norton Says 'Avengers' Director Should Get 'Dark Knight'-Level Creative Control (http://splashpage.mtv.com/2010/03/15/edward-norton-says-avengers-director-should-get-dark-knight-level-creative-control/)

If "Incredible Hulk" star Edward Norton (http://splashpage.mtv.com/tag/edward-norton) had his way, not only would his former director Louis Leterrier (http://splashpage.mtv.com/tag/louis-leterrier/) direct Marvel's upcoming superhero team-up "The Avengers (http://splashpage.mtv.com/tag/the-avengers/)," but he'd get a similar level of creative control as Christopher Nolan (http://splashpage.mtv.com/tag/christopher-nolan) did for "The Dark Knight (http://splashpage.mtv.com/tag/the-dark-knight)."


Video here http://www.mtv.com/videos/movies/492690/edward-norton-wants-avengers-director-to-have-creative-freedom.jhtml#id=1633727

[TheVileOne]

What Norton means is that NORTON would like that level of control. Which I think is what happened with Hulk in that he ultimately didn't get it . . .

[Rock Sexton]

Norton has started to do a lot of talking on the subject.

Me likey.

[FaT_tONle]

Basically the only way to lock up Norton is to install a creative team that he is compatible with that won't have to worry about the excessive studio interference that may have bogged down TIH. I agree with the second part, I don't agree that the team should be LL and Norton and whomever else they may recommend unless of course it's a qualified person. I'll have to be blown away by COTT before I hand over the reigns to LL. I do think Avengers should be catered heavily to the Hulk and want to see Norton back in the worst way, so it appears LL has a lot going for him at the moment.

[TheVileOne]

FAT Tonie, the main issue is though is that if Norton is going to be involved, he essentially has to be part of the creative team, like with TIH. And can they come up with an arrangement that will work?

[ImWithTeamConan]

I think they can. Norton seems to be happy with whoever got booted with Marvel and he's actually been talking openly about the project. My worse case scenario was Norton did TIH and was like "eff you guys i'm outtie" after the whole writer argument.

Interesting that he promoted Louie for the role. If Clash of the Titans ends up being a big ass hit then I can see Marvel trying to lock him up for the role.

And I'm starting to think Norton is going to be really important to this movie. I think Hulk is going to end up being the heart of this movie. This will basically be a sequel to TIH (Iron Man will have had a sequel, and we'll have Cap and Thor between this movie and TIH with most of them apparently taking place before TIH in timeline) and although I'm not saying he gets the most screentime, I do think the whole human/monster think will be upfront for this movie, I don't just want Marvel to throw Hulk out there for some BOOM BOOM POW.

[FaT_tONle]

I think Banner and Stark should be the main players in Avengers. These are the guys you established first. I'd feature the younger guns in the sequels, since RDJ/Norton probably won't come back for sequels. Banner should the the middle man caught up with the Avengers and whomever the villain is. I think Norton understands the character enough and would do an admirable job if he has some input. As far as the creative team, even if LL is THE guy, you still have Favreau producing and having some creative pull, knowing that he has to plant seeds for IM3. Let Norton/RDJ re-do the script. I'd have confidence in that team. It's not Spielberg, Cameron, Jacksonesque, but it's more than you could hope for.

[ImWithTeamConan]

Damn, how epic meetings would be if they had LL, Favreau, Norton, RDJ, Hemsworth, Jackson, Johansen all just in a room working out the kinks in the script.

Course you'd probably run into the problem of having too many cooks in the kitchen, but I'm happy that Norton wants to work in the script, least he cares.

[anrrd_2]

^plus that would be the most expensive rewrite in the history of EVER. lol. all those big names being payed by the day to work on a script that cannot have ONE SINGLE ELEMENT out of place... even someone with a bank the size of Disneys would be hesitant to sign that check

[FaT_tONle]

I am talking about tweaking and re-writes. I am not asking for every actor to have an input. Let the heavy hitters who will be making most bank (Norton/RDJ) and their team of writers tweak Penn's script like they did with TIH. As of now we are pretty much stuck with Penn's original screenplay so Norton needs to understand that they will probably have to work within that, along with what he hopes will be as little as possible studio interference.

[UnkillableMick]

Nope. Only in something like TBATB but I can't take characters like that seriously at all.

And seeing a giant man is just as bad as Ant Man. I mean come on. A Giant man in a live action film. It's laughable.

I hope Norton comes back too. I'm already seeing Evans (hopefully) RDJ, Norton, and Helmsworth together.

I actually can't believe people are saying they DON'T want the Pyms included. They were founding members, and the Wasp has been one of the most consistent Avengers since the '60s.

Do people just not care if these movies are faithful to the source material any more?

[WillardNation]

^^^That's what I'm sayin.

[Rock Sexton]

I actually can't believe people are saying they DON'T want the Pyms included. They were founding members, and the Wasp has been one of the most consistent Avengers since the '60s.

Do people just not care if these movies are faithful to the source material any more?

"How" faithful is the question. Some things are pushing it to the limit. I mean c'mon, a Wasp? An Ant? Some things are comic book believable and some things are big screen believable. They are not the same. Comic book purists tend to have really wild, accepting imaginations. Anytime you put real people up on the screen in real environments, then the level of acceptability and believability changes a bit.

[UnkillableMick]

"How" faithful is the question. Some things are pushing it to the limit. I mean c'mon, a Wasp? An Ant? Some things are comic book believable and some things are big screen believable. They are not the same. Comic book purists tend to have really wild, accepting imaginations. Anytime you put real people up on the screen in real environments, then the level of acceptability and believability changes a bit.

Are people who can shrink any more unbelievable than a man who turns into a big green monster, or a frickin' Norse god?

[ImWithTeamConan]

I would want the Pyms included if we could fit an Ant-Man movie in before Avengers comes out.

The way I see it, this first Avengers movie shouldn't be introducing anybody (except maybe a villain) but rather it should be a collecting of characters that we already know thanks to their solo movies.

[Project862006]

Are people who can shrink any more unbelievable than a man who turns into a big green monster, or a frickin' Norse god?

those 2 are imposing what is to fear from an ant and a wasp people will just laugh

[spideyboy_1111]

those 2 are imposing what is to fear from an ant and a wasp people will just laugh

no one is suppose to fear them dude... and that's there gimmick. there not suppose to be imposing... pyms brain is the only imposing thing about him. there the under rated heroes.. the ones that sneak in and take the villain down when they don't even know it or expect it.

[FaT_tONle]

I would want the Pyms included if we could fit an Ant-Man movie in before Avengers comes out.

The way I see it, this first Avengers movie shouldn't be introducing anybody (except maybe a villain) but rather it should be a collecting of characters that we already know thanks to their solo movies.

Exactly... if Marvel was so confident that the Pyms would work in the movie, why would a talented writer's script and attached movie go by the wayside? And I doubt we'll see a spinoff after Avengers either. So Marvel already set the precedent. I can buy the Pyms as pre-serum scientists, but explaining the science and nano serum is just going to eat screen time and complicate ****.

[Rock Sexton]

Are people who can shrink any more unbelievable than a man who turns into a big green monster, or a frickin' Norse god?

No. I mean c'mon, we're talking about powerful characters ..... and I'm supposed to believe some guy who can shrink to the size of an ant and summon other ants is going to be a formidable opponent? Honey I Shrunk the Kids anyone? <----- That's EXACTLY what people are going to think when they see it and it doesn't suit the nature of the rest of the heroes.

Again, it's a comic book thing where imaginations run wild..... on celluloid it doesn't translate over as well IMO.

[WillardNation]

No. I mean c'mon, we're talking about powerful characters ..... and I'm supposed to believe some guy who can shrink to the size of an ant and summon other ants is going to be a formidable opponent? Honey I Shrunk the Kids anyone? <----- That's EXACTLY what people are going to think when they see it and it doesn't suit the nature of the rest of the heroes.

Again, it's a comic book thing where imaginations run wild..... on celluloid it doesn't translate over as well IMO.

This:


no one is suppose to fear them dude... and that's there gimmick. there not suppose to be imposing... pyms brain is the only imposing thing about him. there the under rated heroes.. the ones that sneak in and take the villain down when they don't even know it or expect it.

[Rock Sexton]

This:

Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111
no one is suppose to fear them dude... and that's there gimmick. there not suppose to be imposing... pyms brain is the only imposing thing about him. there the under rated heroes.. the ones that sneak in and take the villain down when they don't even know it or expect it.



.....and their gimmick is CHEESY. They have enough comic relief in Tony Stark's antics. They're already having to bring believability to these other characters and the inherit corniness of the Pym's will IMO detract from that with the general audience. Instead of action-adventure you'll get some action-comedy concoction.

[WillardNation]

I don't see where the comedy would come in. They could totally play it serious.

[Rock Sexton]

I don't see where the comedy would come in. They could totally play it serious.

.... I just don't see a feasible way to do that. As I stated previously, it'll immediately conjure up memories of "Honey I Shrunk the Kids" with the general audience. Granted there'll be the young ones who've never seen that movie, but everyone else will remember.

Again, they're dealing with an entire audience, not just comic book readers. Comic fans are far more accepting of the zany characters like a wasp and an ant. Reminds me of the scene in The Ultimates where the Wasp flies into Hulks ear to try to bring him down. That works in the cartoon. In a movie, something like that will get laughed at, especially if the Hulk is supposed to be this angry, unstoppable goliath.

[WillardNation]

I think a good majority of people watching this movie haven't even been alive long enough to know what "Honey, I Shrunk The Kids" is. I think with the proper writing it can totally be done.

[Rock Sexton]

I think a good majority of people watching this movie haven't even been alive long enough to know what "Honey, I Shrunk The Kids" is. I think with the proper writing it can totally be done.

I disagree. The demographics will be all over the map. It's the youngin's who won't remember. In fact having a wasp and an ant is dare I say Jar Jar Binks-esque. I don't think Marvel needs to pander to little kids like that. The other characters alone are enough to get their imaginations and attention runnin' wild.

[spideyboy_1111]

.....and their gimmick is CHEESY. They have enough comic relief in Tony Stark's antics. They're already having to bring believability to these other characters and the inherit corniness of the Pym's will IMO detract from that with the general audience. Instead of action-adventure you'll get some action-comedy concoction.

i think you're extremely narrow minded.... were talking about a norse god, a russian spy who shoots bullets from her wrists, a supersoldier from another time period, a giant green muscle man, and a man who can fly with heavy non-aero dynamic armor... and an adience that's already witness and associate marvel with a guy who sticks to walls and shoot webbing out of his wrists, a girl who can make herself invisible, a boy who can light himself on fire, a rock man, a man who can stretch himself, a guy with claws coming out of his wrists, a blue teleporting demon, a shape shifter, etc.. etc... etc... you're acting ridiculous... compare to most powers we've seen in marvel movies, the ability to shrink and grow is just simply tame.

[spideyboy_1111]

I disagree. The demographics will be all over the map. It's the youngin's who won't remember. In fact having a wasp and an ant is dare I say Jar Jar Binks-esque. I don't think Marvel needs to pander to little kids like that. The other characters alone are enough to get their imaginations and attention runnin' wild.

we get your POV... we know you disagree.. even if it sounds moronic:o

[WillardNation]

i think you're extremely narrow minded.... were talking about a norse god, a russian spy who shoots bullets from her wrists, a supersoldier from another time period, a giant green muscle man, and a man who can fly with heavy non-aero dynamic armor... and an adience that's already witness and associate marvel with a guy who sticks to walls and shoot webbing out of his wrists, a girl who can make herself invisible, a boy who can light himself on fire, a rock man, a man who can stretch himself, a guy with claws coming out of his wrists, a blue teleporting demon, a shape shifter, etc.. etc... etc... you're acting ridiculous... compare to most powers we've seen in marvel movies, the ability to shrink and grow is just simply tame.

I think his argument is exactly that, that their powers are tame. Like what are good are they gonna do, not so much that they're unbelievable. Ya know?

But yeah, I agree with you.

[spideyboy_1111]

I think his argument is exactly that, that their powers are tame. Like what are good are they gonna do, not so much that they're unbelievable. Ya know?

But yeah, I agree with you.

theres like 60+ years of stories featuring the pyms... there's a reason they've lasted so long... if they never accomplished anything or didn't have stories or character to them they wouldn't of. it's what they can do with there abilities that makes them awesome. Antman shrinks and grows and has the brains, wasp shrinks and shoots lasers from her hands. There far from being lets say.... "aquaman"

[Lots o lafs]

I recently saw te alternate opening to the incredible hulk, it flushs with the end much better.

And I also saw tHe cap shield.

[UnkillableMick]

No. I mean c'mon, we're talking about powerful characters ..... and I'm supposed to believe some guy who can shrink to the size of an ant and summon other ants is going to be a formidable opponent? Honey I Shrunk the Kids anyone? <----- That's EXACTLY what people are going to think when they see it and it doesn't suit the nature of the rest of the heroes.

Again, it's a comic book thing where imaginations run wild..... on celluloid it doesn't translate over as well IMO.

Well, chances are, Pym will become Giant-Man for The Avengers. Is that not intimidating?

[chamber-music]

Pym as Giant-Man strengthwise is behind Hulk and Thor but still stronger than the rest of the team.

[Rock Sexton]

i think you're extremely narrow minded.... were talking about a norse god, a russian spy who shoots bullets from her wrists, a supersoldier from another time period, a giant green muscle man, and a man who can fly with heavy non-aero dynamic armor... and an adience that's already witness and associate marvel with a guy who sticks to walls and shoot webbing out of his wrists, a girl who can make herself invisible, a boy who can light himself on fire, a rock man, a man who can stretch himself, a guy with claws coming out of his wrists, a blue teleporting demon, a shape shifter, etc.. etc... etc... you're acting ridiculous... compare to most powers we've seen in marvel movies, the ability to shrink and grow is just simply tame.

The ability to shrink to the size of a bug, not to mention command other bugs is not on the level of these other heroes, specifically the ones that will be IN THE MOVIE, as well as their villain counterparts.

This is not about narrow-mindedness. This is about the movie's atmosphere. I'm supposed to bite down and believe some girl the size of a wasp or a man the size of an ant is going to be able to handle the likes of Loki, Red Skull, Mandarin, or any of the other baddies? Set next to behemoths like Thor and Captain America ....or Iron Man and the Hulk? It's too cheesy. As someone pointed out before, there's a reason there's not a solo movie on lock down right now because of it.

[Rock Sexton]

we get your POV... we know you disagree.. even if it sounds moronic:o

.... And we get that you can't carry a civil discussion. Good job on that!

[Rock Sexton]

I think his argument is exactly that, that their powers are tame. Like what are good are they gonna do, not so much that they're unbelievable. Ya know?

But yeah, I agree with you.

It's a mixed bag. Their powers are too tame, they are inherently corny, and risk making the movie too comedic.

It's definitely not about believability.

[Rock Sexton]

theres like 60+ years of stories featuring the pyms... there's a reason they've lasted so long... if they never accomplished anything or didn't have stories or character to them they wouldn't of. it's what they can do with there abilities that makes them awesome. Antman shrinks and grows and has the brains, wasp shrinks and shoots lasers from her hands. There far from being lets say.... "aquaman"


Ya, they've had 60+ years of stories IN COMICS. The big screen is a whole other beast. Commanding bugs or looking like a bug is not nearly on the level of Hulking out and getting stronger as he gets angrier ..... or the son of Odin who wields the mighty Moljnir ........ or say Captain America who is the perfect soldier.

[Rock Sexton]

Well, chances are, Pym will become Giant-Man for The Avengers. Is that not intimidating?

Pym as Giant-Man strengthwise is behind Hulk and Thor but still stronger than the rest of the team.

I agree that Pym's Giant Man would be more formidable than his Ant Man "appearance-wise" .... However, you have to consider the cost logistics of bringing that character to life in CGI, which I feel would become an issue. I mean are you just going to have him poking around buildings and only getting brief glimpses of him ala Cloverfield? Or are you going to get full on Kraken-style ala Clash of the Titans? The second is very costly to render.

I watched The Ultimates for the first time the other night and I just felt like Giant Man was a waste of a character. Something that size just seemed so useless, I don't know how they managed to portray that, but they did. Watching Hulk bring him down by just punching him in the knee ..... or when Hulk choked him out ..... Pym just seemed like a wise-cracking useless hotshot, who's power of giantism was more for show than go.

[kedrell]

Pym as Giant-Man strengthwise is behind Hulk and Thor but still stronger than the rest of the team.

Actually, I think Iron Man is stronger than Giant-Man as well. At least in the later armors(Mark VI and beyond) he'll have by the time the Avengers movie comes out.

[King Kong]

antman and wasp would be laughable in a movie.

[CaptainStacy]

well signed on doesnt always mean there going to be used... but yeah i could easily see cheadle appearing, doesnt mean war machine will though, or even play a large part

or even become a member of the team. Just appear in the film.

[CaptainStacy]

I think his argument is exactly that, that their powers are tame. Like what are good are they gonna do, not so much that they're unbelievable. Ya know?

But yeah, I agree with you.

The Wasp and the Scott Lang version of Ant-Man took on and defeated The Absorbing Man and Titania. Aborbing Man has fought both The Hulk and Thor, and Titania routinely goes toe-to-toe with She-Hulk...

How did they do it? Pick up some comics, read them, actually LEARN about the characters you're dismissing without any real knowledge, and you may be surprised. :yay:

[CaptainStacy]

antman and wasp would be laughable in a movie.

Only to people who lack any real imagination. :yay:

[Whiskey Tango]

I don't think the idea of a shrinking hero is laughable; I think having two of them would be redundant in a movie that's already going to be packed with super-powered characters.

If I put Wasp in there, I'd make Hank Giant-Man* or more likely just leave him as a scientist and stick an Ant-Man helmet on his desk and leave it at that.

I don't think either of them are necessary however.

* I like how Ultimates handled Hank's incredible growth by presenting the dangers involved. Like how he couldn't eat when he was six stories tall, or else when he shrank he would *pop*. That added a layer of believability to it for me.

[WillardNation]

The Wasp and the Scott Lang version of Ant-Man took on and defeated The Absorbing Man and Titania. Aborbing Man has fought both The Hulk and Thor, and Titania routinely goes toe-to-toe with She-Hulk...

How did they do it? Pick up some comics, read them, actually LEARN about the characters you're dismissing without any real knowledge, and you may be surprised. :yay:

I wasn't dismissing them, so I don't know why you quoted me. :huh:

[Chewy]

"I am on the shortlist, but I'm at the bottom of the shortlist, I'm sure. (Laughs) I don't know who the other guys are, but I have a great relationship with [Marvel], and I've been very vocal to them and everyone else that I am the one to direct it. I loved my time at Marvel. I loved those guys. They're fantastic. Kevin is such a passionate boss; he gets his hands dirty. It's a universe I want to keep exploring. I was frustrated with [THE INCREDIBLE HULK]. It was like, "That's it? Only one superhero? Can I do more???" We'll see. Time will tell."SOURCE (http://www.aintitcool.com/node/44352)

[WillardNation]

I really liked TIH but I'll wait til after Clash Of The Titans to decide if I would like him to direct Avengers.

[TheVileOne]

Leterrier had his shot and hit a double not a homerun.

[giggs11uk]

If he does direct Avengers that means we will get Norton back for sure

[WillardNation]

^^^And IMO that would be great.

[LostSon88]

I really liked TIH but I'll wait til after Clash Of The Titans to decide if I would like him to direct Avengers.

Agreed.

Having said that, I have a feeling that whoever directs the Avengers will either be:

1) One of the directors that has already worked with Marvel, i.e. Leterrier, Brahagh, Johnston (obviously Farveau is out).

OR

2) Some superstar A-list director.

I just can't see them handing over "The Avengers" to someone with a low profile...its far too much of an "event" movie to hand it over to some no name and/or vaguely known director.

[Dotten]

So it was not Leterrier Ed Norton had a problem with? I seem to recall he stating in an interview that "the guy", whoever it was, that he had a beef with wasn't around anymore.

[ImWithTeamConan]

My wish list would look something like...

JJ Abrams
Nimrod Antal
Louis Leterrier
Guillermo Del Toro

[kedrell]

^Nimrod Antal? The others at least I am familiar with.

[UnkillableMick]

It wouldn't happen, but I'd love Zack Snyder or Chris Nolan to direct The Avengers. They both have a great track record of directing comic adaptations.

[kedrell]

Snyder? I trust him less than Letterrier. At least LL isn't in love with slo-mo.

[Project862006]

hell no to letterrier i trust sndyer more than him only thing is Snyder is not a guy to get a great performance out of you but he will be damn faithful .Avengers is not zach's type of material it is not dark or serious enough for him imo.

zach atleast makes sure you get a spectacle

but i want neither for Avengers