Does anyone remember?

[daveswb]

Do you remember the days when you could pick up a spidey comic and read a quick stoy and enjoy it? Not every book had a major impact on the character and where he was going. Just a quick story maybe he fights electro and JJ complains about him. And you sat down and read it and just had a good time. I haven't felt that way about Spidey for some time. Am I alone in this?

[Gabbra49]

Yea those were the days. they have come and gone. I wish they did more single issue stories. Im hoping once 3x a week starts it will be more like that.

[Spider-ManHero12]

I remember that, and I loved it. I wish it was more like that these days. :up:

I also agree with Gabbra49 with hoping that it would be like that when ASM is released 3x a month. :up:

[Venom 1988]

You mean back when there wasent a freaking giant event affecting Spidey's everday life all the time? Yea I miss those days too. Im hoping after Brand New Day, the comics will take a break from all that.

[kguillou]

As long as big events are boosting sales we probly wont ever see those days again. Let's face it, as much as we hate the many 'events' we cant help but buy them to find out what happens. Marvel knows this and is using it to their advantage.

[Web-Head]

I hate all of these "No turning Back/ after this nothing will be the same/ life changing event for Peter" type of stories. All that I wish for is that there would be more standalone stories as there were often in Spidey comics back then. Instead of the big event's one after each other.
Heck, Spidey's already had 3 big events through the past 2 years, and most of which were pretty bad, although I did enjoy all of Back In Black.

[K.B.]

See it would also make a much bigger impact if these things werent announced, that they just wrote the stories and it happened NATURALLY.

For example, what was all that press and big poster ads 6 months before Gwen died?

EXACTLY!

[DACrowe]

I do. Those were nice. The last time I did so was either Spider-Man Reign or the amazing Spectacular annual this year.

Otherwise I haven't enjoyed a new Spidey comic since Millar's run on Marvel Knights ended, and even that was a giant arc.

Spidey comics other than that and Dan Slott arent' going back. Why? Because they are a cash enterprise for Marvel. Joey Q makes money off of the events and knows they mean big money when they happen. So to keep up the high circulation he'll keep doing them until we quit buying the ****. When that happens maybe they'll go back to the old style.

But I have me doubts.

[3dman27]

i do i wish comics would go back to that format
NUTS to that trde paperback stuff

[Ultimate Kaine]

Yeah, I remember the days when I could pick up a comic and read a single issue. But I also remember those were the same days I could not bother to pick up another issue of the same comic for months later because there was no ongoing story to keep me glued to the story. *Shrugs* Double edged swords, buddy.

[shinlyle]

I miss those days. The late 80's early 90's....back when you could pick up Web, SSM, ASM, or SM, and get something different within each book. Some were one issue tales, some were 5 or 6 issue arcs, but they all operated independantly of each other. Hell, anyone else remember 1991? Remember when the "Fall of the Kingpin" story was going on in Daredevil, but Spider-Man was also fighting the Rose and the Kingpin in Web? That would be catastrophic today, and there would be no explanation....just guessing as to which happened first. Still, that story featured a little note at the beginning that said *These events happen before Daredevil 397-300!

It was a much less confusing time in comics. Then DC killed off Superman, Marvel tried to replace Spider-man, DC Broke Batman's back and replaced him, and Marvel had "Heroes Reborn".

Ugh....how I miss when Larsen and Michelinie were on ASM, McFarlane was on SM, and Buscema and Dematties were on SSM.....good times.

[Dangerous]

Ugh....how I miss when Larsen and Michelinie were on ASM, McFarlane was on SM, and Buscema and Dematties were on SSM.....good times.

Man, they were solid teams!

I remember Rose and Kingpin in WEB in '91, cool stuff.

[Spec Spider-Man]

I miss those days....

[shinlyle]

Man, they were solid teams!

I remember Rose and Kingpin in WEB in '91, cool stuff.

I know. I remember the storylines going on at the time were just good, fun, stuff. Harry becoming the Goblin in SSM (The Child Within), "The Name of the Rose" in Web, Bagley and Michelinie doing the "Round Robin" storyline in ASM, McFarlane passing the reigns onto Larsen on Spider-Man for the "Revenge of the Sinister Six"... All fun stories. Spidey was actually a formidable hero who could hold his own back then....nowdays, everyone beats him up. It's sad. Also, remember how Peter and MJ bantered backa nd forth in SM? Remember seeing MJ and Peter arguing over her smoking? Those little interactions made the books fun for me.

[dan1]

Yes, I also miss those days. If you look in any search engine on the Internet you can find articles that talk about Quesada using the Trade Paperback Format to make money for Marvel. His platform during a speech with suits for "Positive Changes" at Marvel is out there somewhere too. The trade paperback platform would consist mainly of stretched out 4 or 5 parters. If read in the full form it would be a decent story but in Comic Book form not a whole lot goes on and you're usually left hanging.

This was purposely done, and actually Quesada's platform for the future of Marvel Comics. Quesada sees overall sales figures as more important than Story and Structure that make comic books, well......comic books.

Because of Quesada's radical measures with Spider-Man comics you either love him or hate him, I definitely dislike him because he was with Marvel during the glory days in the 80's and knew why it was special, but in my opinion he has taken the easy road in trying to make more money for his company.

What gets my goat the most is that Quesada gets all of this credit for "saving Marvel Comics from bankrupcy" but seriously though, the S-M movie was coming out, X-Men already did and was a hit, so Marvel Comics was going to recover with just good stories, or at least Movie Tie in stories. I don't buy the logic that the only way Marvel Comics was going to recover would be with Trade Paperbacks.

[Dangerous]

I know. I remember the storylines going on at the time were just good, fun, stuff. Harry becoming the Goblin in SSM (The Child Within), "The Name of the Rose" in Web, Bagley and Michelinie doing the "Round Robin" storyline in ASM, McFarlane passing the reigns onto Larsen on Spider-Man for the "Revenge of the Sinister Six"... All fun stories. Spidey was actually a formidable hero who could hold his own back then....nowdays, everyone beats him up. It's sad. Also, remember how Peter and MJ bantered backa nd forth in SM? Remember seeing MJ and Peter arguing over her smoking? Those little interactions made the books fun for me.

Yeah man, Pete smashing the furniture in Spectacular- blasting MJ's disgusting cigarette butts all over the place (feel like doing that in my gfs apartment sometimes!), or Peter webbing MJ to the ceiling in Adjectiveless and alluding to tickling her in 'that' place.

That stuff was like a real relationship, plus it was entertaining for us to read.
Mackie did not know how to write the marriage, or care since he is a non supporter. Then JMS got it back on track, and there was signs of promise for a while… Yet if you compare JMS’ best MJ stuff to the early nineties- it just seemed a lot more real back in the day. Like it was a real relationship.

The problem today is these dickweeds don know how to write a marriage, yet there is so much you can do w/ it. Real life is about relationships and progression, not being 19 forever… Ughh

[Dangerous]

This is like the dark decade for Spider-Man comics, it has been one ****fest after another, who'd have thought it back in 2000?

[shinlyle]

Yeah man, Pete smashing the furniture all over the show in Spectacular- blasting MJ's disgusting cigarette butts all over the place (feel like doing that in my gfs apartment sometimes!), or Peter webbing MJ to the ceiling in Adjectiveless and alluding to tickling her in 'that' place.

That stuff was like a real relationship, plus it was entertaining for us to read.
Mackie did not know how to write the marriage, or care since he is a non supporter. Then JMS got it back on track, and there was signs of promise for a while… Yet if you compare JMS’ best MJ stuff to the early nineties- it just seemed a lot more real back in the day. Like it was a real relationship.

The problem today is these dickweeds don know how to write a marriage, yet there is so much you can do w/ it. Real life is about relationships and progression, not being 19 forever… Ughh

Exactly.

I think alot of the problem is that the current regime writes MJ as waiting for Peter all the time. When they first started out as a married couple, they lived their own lives. MJ wasn't ALWAYS at home when Peter got there. She Had her own job, she had her own friends, and she went out to the club and did what the glamorous people do. Peter went out and did his Daily Bugle/ Spider-man stuff, and then he'd come home. They went out, they did things, and life always seemed to be working against them doing anything fun. Sounds like a marriage to me.

Ever since the unmasking, MJ has been a freakin' hermit. She hung around Stark Tower doing nothing until Peter went against Tony, then she hung out in a seedy hotel room with May doing nothing. Wow. What an interesting way to write a character. Have her forever waiting on her husband to get home. Awesome.

Clearly, they need someone at Marvel who doesn't detest marraige or is actually young and married, or someone who can just relate to a young, married, Peter Parker and Mary Jane, and knows how to write them.

I guess we'll have to wait until peter and MJ get REMARRIED in 20 MORE years to see that. Maybe my grandchildren can enjoy it.:whatever:

[Dangerous]

Yeah, I remember the early nineties- MJ was a supermodel in ASM or WEB issues or whatever, often the comic would be two equal length storys intercut w/ each other. One half was PP going about his business and then Spidey action, the other half was MJ's working/social life. Then later in the issue the story might focus on how their daily lives came together, or did not. Imo- Michelinie was very good at this.

They need to get back to that balanced formula of storytelling. The way MJ has been written the last few years it's as if she is a 120lb bag of sand, instead of the exciting and deep character we know she really is.

[SpideyZERO]

I just started reading Spidey comics recently but I do want more single issue adventures of Spidey kicking ass, and less long arcs which try to ruin Spidey's life more

[JayTee]

Michilinie's run and the late 80s to early 90s in general was my personal 'golden age'. I love that stuff so much it's ridiculous. Older comic pros only dog on it cuz they either A - hate the marriage or B - hate Todd McFarlane. Michilinie has cited Stan Lee as a big influence and it shows in his writing. It was incredibly fun, dramatic, scary all when it needed to be and had that inclusive "lets find out o the next page!" club mentality that old marvel had.

That whole era up til the clone saga rocks. Venom, Carnage, The Ditko Villains pushing the 80s villains out of the way for the spotlight again, everything.

Just take a chunk of 6 comics out of the Larsen era and compare it to the usual action-less (or at least not well thought out action) 6 issue over dramatic sobfest we usually get these days. That's why their sales will never climb, cuz kids would be bored with that stuff.

Man, oh man oh man do I miss Spidey.

[DACrowe]

Yeah people ***** writing the marriage is hard, but DeMatthis kept it a focal point in all his stories and he turned out some of the best stories with it at the center in Spidey history (Kraven's Last Hunt, The Child Within and Death of Harry off the top of my head). Michillinie used it very well too, albeit early on he wrote her kind of flakey. After a year or so he got it it right though and it worked fine even when the stories sucked (the MJ subplot for example made Life Theft a much more memorable story than it would have been otherwise)..


Hell even Jenkins could write it pretty well. JMS when he actually focuseed on the relationship and not Peter idolizing her made it great and Millar brought back the MJ/Black Cat tension as Smith made BC a viable character again which again stole the show for most of his run. It worked so well Dan Slott's hsort but memorable run used it. and SSM Annual this year was just kind of a "**** you Joey Q" IMO and proved the Spidey marriage works great.

But yyou have Joey Q thinking it limits sales (not the character, he is thinking about what can make more money) and JMS doesn't enjoy writing it (and neither did Mackie, Bryne and a few others) so it is getting erased.

****ing stupid.

[JayTee]

Yeah, it's a load of garbage anyway. The comics were selling through the roof well after the marriage. Once again though the industry loooOOOooves to make excuses when it comes to the late 80s early 90s superstar artists.

"Todd McFarlane didn't boost Spider-Man! It was the umm... umm...... speculator boom! Yeah!"

Good Spider-Man sold Spider-Man back then, not the home shopping network. How do I know? Cuz I was buying it and I know a ton of people from all walks of life who did as well.

[dan1]

You know when the posters here on this board for the last 8 or so years have come up with better storylines than the "pros" and care more about the character's continuity than the creators themselves, then there is a much larger problem than if Spider-Man is married or not.

[JayTee]

You know when the posters here on this board for the last 8 or so years have come up with better storylines than the "pros" and care more about the character's continuity than the creators themselves, then there is a much larger problem than if Spider-Man is married or not.

See, to me continuity is a grey area. People whined when JMS made Morlun punch Peter "Harder that ever before" or when he described flying (sorry, "gliding") for the first time. That's not a continuity mistake, that's just writing. So what if he's fought the Hulk and whoever else, or that he's flown with cosmic powers. that's not a big deal and it's fanboy-ish to complain about such a thing.

What IS ridiculous is when Captain Idiot doesn't know basic things like the webbing dissolves in an hour or Gwen wasn't in high school with him.

[CaptainStacy]

Do you remember the days when you could pick up a spidey comic and read a quick stoy and enjoy it? Not every book had a major impact on the character and where he was going. Just a quick story maybe he fights electro and JJ complains about him.

You mean like the past year or so of Sensational and Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man?

Yes, i remember that quite well.... :yay:

[venom892]

Sensational and FN were pretty underrated.Such good spidey stories.

[JayTee]

You mean like the past year or so of Sensational and Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man?

Yes, i remember that quite well.... :yay:

Really? Cuz what I saw from picking em up in the store was a 22 page set up. It used to take the Lizard 1 page to turn into the lizard and Spider-Man 2 pages to be somewhere, drop what he's doing, and zoom over there.

Writing for the trades has to die.

I got Dini's Detective run in a trade, and get this, I got SIX Batman stories. Much more fullfilling than a trade of Marvel where a splash page is used to say "wha..?" or "The hell?".

[Norman Osborn]

Really? Cuz what I saw from picking em up in the store was a 22 page set up. It used to take the Lizard 1 page to turn into the lizard and Spider-Man 2 pages to be somewhere, drop what he's doing, and zoom over there.

Writing for the trades has to die.

I got Dini's Detective run in a trade, and get this, I got SIX Batman stories. Much more fullfilling than a trade of Marvel where a splash page is used to say "wha..?" or "The hell?".

I won't say so much Senstional as I wasn't a huge fan but the last year or so of FNSM was off the hook strong.......The last several arcs were about classic Spidey villains, Vulture, Mysterio, Sandman, and also reintroduced us to many of Pete's supporting cast including Flash, Betty, and Debra Whitman.....none of the arcs went past 3 issues and were far from padded or written for trade.....I thought the the Taking Wing arc was the strongest Spidey story I had read since the Hydra arc in ASM.......

[3dman27]

Writing for the trades has to die.


thats afirmative:ninja:

[CaptainStacy]

Really? Cuz what I saw from picking em up in the store was a 22 page set up. It used to take the Lizard 1 page to turn into the lizard and Spider-Man 2 pages to be somewhere, drop what he's doing, and zoom over there.

Writing for the trades has to die.

I got Dini's Detective run in a trade, and get this, I got SIX Batman stories. Much more fullfilling than a trade of Marvel where a splash page is used to say "wha..?" or "The hell?".

Cool. Dini's Batman bores me. :yay:

I keep trying to get back into Batman comics, but so far, nothing grabs me...

[Doc_OCK_4MUGEN]

I miss self contained stories... We should get more of those and a bit (By a bit I mean a LOT) less of those Universe core shattering big-assed events to be retconned byt the next bigger-assed event... I can bet you that ONE Stan Lee Issue would be stretched up to 12 current Marvel issues...

[3dman27]

well put doc

[venom892]

Cool. Dini's Batman bores me. :yay:

I keep trying to get back into Batman comics, but so far, nothing grabs me...Really I love din's run so far.Did you read the two issue zatanna story or the joker/robin issue?

[daveswb]

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that feels this way. I read something the other day that made me sad. Joe Q's biggest claim to fame was the Trade Paperback sales at Marvel. He pushed getting Trabe PBs out so that Marvel could sell thier books in more places like regular book stores. Which majorly boosted sales. So he pushes for the multiple big cross over stories so he can sell more Trade PBs. I just thought of it as another example of sacrificing art for the sake of buisness.

I'm not against the ocassinal big event. But doing it so often they become balzah. You get through the fith or so big life changing event and you go, oh ok, that was dumd. It's like the norm for the characters now is to always expect the unexpected. So that in itself becomes boring and no longer fun. You know what I mean? If Kenny dies in every episode, eventually it isn't funny anymore. If everytime you read a spidey isasue his life changes eventually he no longer has a life anyone cares about.

[JayTee]

I'd personally attribute Witchblade to being the dawn of the one story trade format. That first story memorized me when I bought it in trade. It felt like a movie in my hands or something and it got to take its time and stretch the art a bit. It's been done to death now though and it's gotten to the point where 6 issues feels like less than half an issue. Nothing happens.

Oh another thing that bugs me is that since there are 4 5 and 6 issue arcs, you onoly get 2, MAYbe 3 stories in a YEAR! At Marvel lately, editorial mandate makes everything crossover for their events too, so really you're getting 2 stories a year and one of them is interrupted for crossover nonsense.

That's not comic books.

[JayTee]

Actually, my solution is this. I'm working on a comic right now of my own and my ultimate goal is to have the first story be a 100 page Graphic Novel to get things off the ground in an epic way. Then everything after will be single issues in the vein of Stan and Jacks FF. Perhaps once every year or 2 years another GN will come out.

This would be a good way fore the industry to run. It's almost like an expanded version of the Mon-Sat Funnies and The Sunday Strip being the big "lookitme!" one.

[3dman27]

I'd personally attribute Witchblade to being the dawn of the one story trade format. That first story memorized me when I bought it in trade. It felt like a movie in my hands or something and it got to take its time and stretch the art a bit. It's been done to death now though and it's gotten to the point where 6 issues feels like less than half an issue. Nothing happens.

Oh another thing that bugs me is that since there are 4 5 and 6 issue arcs, you onoly get 2, MAYbe 3 stories in a YEAR! At Marvel lately, editorial mandate makes everything crossover for their events too, so really you're getting 2 stories a year and one of them is interrupted for crossover nonsense.

That's not comic books.

i concur