The Official Mike Dougherty & Dan Harris Thread

[Retroman]

Mike Dougherty is set to make his directoral debut with the horror/comdey flick Trick R Treat.Dan Harris is directing his second movie I, Lucifer starring Daniel Craig and Ewan Mcgregor after his strong debut film Imaginary Heroes. What kind of effect do you think this will have on the SR sequel? That is if Singer will return.

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/1489/id2iz5.jpg

[matrix_ghost]

Not much i guess :huh:
Assuming Singer and co. are still on board and the sequel comes out in 2009 , i think both guys have enough time to work out the script. If they haven't already begun working on it.

I remember reading an article somewhere where Singer was invited to a dinner with Alan Horn where he basically layed out what he had planned for the trilogy. Some time later he was accepted as the director of SR.
Now they could've just had a a simple plan like for example "In the first movie , we'll just have Superman saving the earth and lex coming up with a devious plan and in the second movie we'll have Zod returning and in the 3rd movie we'll have Braniac.".
That or they have already begun writing a concept for the sequel. Action scenes being fleshed out etc.


Besides it's still 3 years till 2009. I think that singer will take the same approach that he had with the X-Men movies and SR which is going to be shooting the movie somewhere in 2008 and then use the other time for the VFX. Don't ask me why he would do that , cause i don't see how a big budget blockbuster like Superman with massive VFX sequences ( hopefully with a villain this time around :cmad: ) will need a post. prod. schedule that is less then a year.
But anyway going back to the writers , i think both will finish their movies somewhere in 2007

I,LUCIFER ( which btw sounds like a awesome movie !) doesn't have a release date , but i think Craig will begin work on this movie after he finishes work on The Golden Compass. Or not, because the sequel to Casino Royale comes out in 2008. So i think that movie ( bond sequel) has a higher priority .
Which would mean that by the time Craig finishes up on Bond , Harris will have been contuining working on the script alongside Dougherty.
Trick 'r Treat comes out on the 5th of oct. 2007 ( taken from IMDB) so Dougherty will definately be finished before 2008.




And this all is of singer goes along with those two. OR mebbe WB has said to singer to actually take writers who know a thing or two about the comics ( a la Joss Whedon and David Hayter with the first X-men movie) :huh:

[blueboy]

Honestly, I hope we get new writers all around... A Nolan/Goyer combo would be perfect for Superman or any other Comic franchise for that matter....

thoughts?

[Payle Gray]

Honestly, I hope we get new writers all around... A Nolan/Goyer combo would be perfect for Superman or any other Comic franchise for that matter....

thoughts?

I totally agree, although that particular combo won't happen.

[Payle Gray]

Honestly, I hope we get new writers all around... A Nolan/Goyer combo would be perfect for Superman or any other Comic franchise for that matter....

thoughts?

I totally agree, although that particular combo won't happen.

[ReTrO JuNkIe 42]

Honestly, I hope we get new writers all around... A Nolan/Goyer combo would be perfect for Superman or any other Comic franchise for that matter....

thoughts?


CoughTimm/DiniCough Excuse me :woot:

[dpm07]

CoughTimm/DiniCough Excuse me :woot:

Good choice, but it will never happen.

Singer couldn't control those two like he did his whack pack of Harris & Daugherty, and Timm/Dini are not going to pacify Singer's fragile mentally disturbed bi-polar ego.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Good choice, but it will never happen.

Singer couldn't control those two like he did his whack pack of Harris & Daugherty, and Timm/Dini are not going to pacify Singer's fragile mentally disturbed bi-polar ego.Taking things a bit too seriously.

[Showtime]

Good choice, but it will never happen.

Singer couldn't control those two like he did his whack pack of Harris & Daugherty, and Timm/Dini are not going to pacify Singer's fragile mentally disturbed bi-polar ego.

Has Dini and Timm ever written a feature length movie, beside a cartoon? Not to disprespect what they do, because what I am calling cartoons are indeed fun and well done. I just don't understand why you would think they are the "2nd coming".

[Showtime]

Mike Dougherty is set to make his directoral debut with the horror/comdey flick Trick R Treat.Dan Harris is directing his second movie I, Lucifer starring Daniel Craig and Ewan Mcgregor after his strong debut film Imaginary Heroes. What kind of effect do you think this will have on the SR sequel? That is if Singer will return.

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/1489/id2iz5.jpg

I think having Mike having the experience of directing and Dan furthering his, will only help them with their careers.

[ReTrO JuNkIe 42]

Good choice, but it will never happen.

Singer couldn't control those two like he did his whack pack of Harris & Daugherty, and Timm/Dini are not going to pacify Singer's fragile mentally disturbed bi-polar ego.


Oh I know, but i can dream can't I :woot:

[green]

Good choice, but it will never happen.

Singer couldn't control those two like he did his whack pack of Harris & Daugherty, and Timm/Dini are not going to pacify Singer's fragile mentally disturbed bi-polar ego.


Oh jeez.:whatever:

[Retroman]

Not much i guess :huh:
Assuming Singer and co. are still on board and the sequel comes out in 2009 , i think both guys have enough time to work out the script. If they haven't already begun working on it.

I remember reading an article somewhere where Singer was invited to a dinner with Alan Horn where he basically layed out what he had planned for the trilogy. Some time later he was accepted as the director of SR.
Now they could've just had a a simple plan like for example "In the first movie , we'll just have Superman saving the earth and lex coming up with a devious plan and in the second movie we'll have Zod returning and in the 3rd movie we'll have Braniac.".
That or they have already begun writing a concept for the sequel. Action scenes being fleshed out etc.


Besides it's still 3 years till 2009. I think that singer will take the same approach that he had with the X-Men movies and SR which is going to be shooting the movie somewhere in 2008 and then use the other time for the VFX. Don't ask me why he would do that , cause i don't see how a big budget blockbuster like Superman with massive VFX sequences ( hopefully with a villain this time around :cmad: ) will need a post. prod. schedule that is less then a year.
But anyway going back to the writers , i think both will finish their movies somewhere in 2007

I,LUCIFER ( which btw sounds like a awesome movie !) doesn't have a release date , but i think Craig will begin work on this movie after he finishes work on The Golden Compass. Or not, because the sequel to Casino Royale comes out in 2008. So i think that movie ( bond sequel) has a higher priority .
Which would mean that by the time Craig finishes up on Bond , Harris will have been contuining working on the script alongside Dougherty.
Trick 'r Treat comes out on the 5th of oct. 2007 ( taken from IMDB) so Dougherty will definately be finished before 2008.
I'm pretty sure they will be finished with their films by the end of 2007. That wasn't really point i was wondering more that now that both of them of the are going out on their own how that will affect the SR sequel.Will Singer let them direct segments of the movie like Robert Rodriguez did on Sin City? Will we see stronger dialogue? Will they ask for more money when they sign on?

And this all is of singer goes along with those two. OR mebbe WB has said to singer to actually take writers who know a thing or two about the comics ( a la Joss Whedon and David Hayter with the first X-men movie) :huh:
Well Singer knows both David Hayter and Tom DeSanto quite well and both major comic book geeks. I'd be very happy if they were brought on board for the SR sequel.

Honestly, I hope we get new writers all around... A Nolan/Goyer combo would be perfect for Superman or any other Comic franchise for that matter....

thoughts?
Besides the fact that i don't think Nolan will do a Superman movie this not the topic of this thread its really about Dougherty and Harris.

[Retroman]

I think having Mike having the experience of directing and Dan furthering his, will only help them with their careers.
Most definetly.Especially Harris'. His first film starred Sigourney Weaver now he's getting to direct Ewan Mcgregor and Daniel Craig. Not bad for one of Singer's 'yes men'.:o

[Showtime]

Most definetly.Especially Harris'. His first film starred Sigourney Weaver now he's getting to direct Ewan Mcgregor and Daniel Craig. Not bad for one of Singer's 'yes men'.:o

I really liked Imaginary Heroes. It was good.

[Retroman]

I really liked Imaginary Heroes. It was good.
I agree.

[igotatromboner]

These two are just as big of a problem as Singer. Why can'y Singer get imaginative with his writing staff, casting, etc. He's always working with the same group of people. This limits his range as a movie maker. These guys are talented, but somebody needs to be hired to call out Singer or whoever directs the sequel on bad ideas. Bring in some fresh talent with something new to bring to the table.

[Freddy_Krueger]

These two are just as big of a problem as Singer. Why can'y Singer get imaginative with his writing staff, casting, etc. He's always working with the same group of people.

A lot of directors do work with the same people. Spielberg COULD get someone besides John Williams to score his movies, but he likes working with John so he keeps him.

The same with Singer and Dougherty/Harris.

[Showtime]

These two are just as big of a problem as Singer. Why can'y Singer get imaginative with his writing staff, casting, etc. He's always working with the same group of people. This limits his range as a movie maker. These guys are talented, but somebody needs to be hired to call out Singer or whoever directs the sequel on bad ideas. Bring in some fresh talent with something new to bring to the table.

I think its good to surround yourself with people you trust and I think that is what Singer has done. This is the case all across the board with directors. Who knows what other ideas Singer had that his staff didn't agree with. I am sure they aren't sitting on their hands if they believed Singer had a bad idea, like some would lead you to believe. :whatever:

[WormyT]

Goyer/Peter jackson would make a phenominal Superman Movie.

jackson would push the cinematography/action/fantasy and scale to the limit and go out of his way to bring us something ORIGINAL and Goyer would give us a great story that embodies the soul of the books.
I really hope Singer F#$ks off and WB give Superman to someone more capable. Superman aint boring WB, its just that some people have a really narrow vision of his world. A watered down vision that starts and ends with a movie made 30 years ago.
I'm actually planning on selling my X1 and X2 DVD's because Singer messed up Superman so badly. If universal can admit Ang Lee messed up and start Hulk AGAIN, then perhaps WB can do the same.

[Lobster Charlie]

I've already sold my X-1...X2 is probably next, since I NEVER watch it anymore. It's a decent film, but the X-Men deserve far, FAR more than something that looked like it was practically made for television.

[Payle Gray]

It's a decent film, but the X-Men deserve far, FAR more than something that looked like it was practically made for television.

You know, I never thought of it like that but you're right. There was really nothing "theatrical" about it.

[Retroman]

Comparing the X-Men movies to tv movie is biggest insult you could make but if you feel that way then so be it. I just think that i should point out that many people, comic fans and general film-going folk, think highly of the first two X-Men movies. They weren't huge succeses on dvd and at the box office because Hugh Jackman and Halle Berry were in it.

Back to the topic of the thread.:o

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I've already sold my X-1...X2 is probably next, since I NEVER watch it anymore. It's a decent film, but the X-Men deserve far, FAR more than something that looked like it was practically made for television.I also think that they look like T.V movies.

[Mr. Socko]

How old are Dougherty and Harris?

Can we please Dith these lames, but if Singer returns, you can bet they'll be back.

I wonder how they got the jobs in the first place.........

[igotatromboner]

A lot of directors do work with the same people. Spielberg COULD get someone besides John Williams to score his movies, but he likes working with John so he keeps him.

The same with Singer and Dougherty/Harris.


I'm sorry, but when was the last time anyone complained about Spielberg or Williams? Probably Spielberg's 1941 right? Singer and company aren't even on that level so don't even compare them. I'm fine for people working together more than once, but they need to consistently bring some good ideas to the table. Superman Returns had a lot of stupid crap in it, X2 had a lot of crap in it, and the next project they work together on will have a lot of stupid crap in it.

[Freddy_Krueger]

I'm sorry, but when was the last time anyone complained about Spielberg or Williams? Probably Spielberg's 1941 right? Singer and company aren't even on that level so don't even compare them. I'm fine for people working together more than once, but they need to consistently bring some good ideas to the table. Superman Returns had a lot of stupid crap in it, X2 had a lot of crap in it, and the next project they work together on will have a lot of stupid crap in it.

In your opinion. Regardless, my point remains the same: directors have certain people they are more comfortable working with--whether they be writers, cutters, composers, actors, what have you. Singer likes working with Dougherty and Harris and will probably continue to work with them in the future.

Whether you like it or not.

[igotatromboner]

It's guys like you that confuse me. How could you be content with what was put on screen with SR? Those three guys have consistently underwhelmed me. Do you honestly like the crap they do overall. I only see little bits and pieces of cool in their movies.

[KaptainKrypton]

It's guys like you that confuse me. How could you be content with what was put on screen with SR? Those three guys have consistently underwhelmed me. Do you honestly like the crap they do overall. I only see little bits and pieces of cool in their movies.
He liked the movie. He was content with it because it entertained him. You consider it crap, he doesn't. I personally HATE musicals and think they are the most retarted thing in cinema. That doesn't invalidate that many others like Grease (much to my chagrin). You may see little bits and pieces of cool, but in other circles, people enjoyed the experience on a grander scale. Hopefully, you'll be more entertained with the next outing.

[Maze]

It's guys like you that confuse me. How could you be content with what was put on screen with SR? Those three guys have consistently underwhelmed me. Do you honestly like the crap they do overall. I only see little bits and pieces of cool in their movies.
I'm not sure that you realize ( but i could be wrong) that i could tell you the exact same things but ..reversed.

That kind of dialogue goes nowhere.

[bosef982]

Honestly, I hope we get new writers all around... A Nolan/Goyer combo would be perfect for Superman or any other Comic franchise for that matter....

thoughts?

Since when did David Goyer become a good writer? Last time I checked, when left to his own devices, his movies tend to suck...

Doughtery and Harris all the way.

[bosef982]

It's guys like you that confuse me. How could you be content with what was put on screen with SR? Those three guys have consistently underwhelmed me. Do you honestly like the crap they do overall. I only see little bits and pieces of cool in their movies.

I thought SR was beautifully written.

[bosef982]

I'm sorry, but when was the last time anyone complained about Spielberg or Williams? Probably Spielberg's 1941 right? Singer and company aren't even on that level so don't even compare them. I'm fine for people working together more than once, but they need to consistently bring some good ideas to the table. Superman Returns had a lot of stupid crap in it, X2 had a lot of crap in it, and the next project they work together on will have a lot of stupid crap in it.

Oh, you were a lost cause before you even starting posting. X2 is considered one of the greatest comic book movies ever....

Sigh...

[Mr. Socko]

By who? You.

Anyone could consider any the greatest movie ever.............................

[igotatromboner]

How does anyone that calls themself a Superman fan, and by that I mean someone that reads the comics, accept Superman Returns? Routh pulled off Clark really well, but his Superman left something to be desired. Bosworth was just lazy casting for Lois. You'd think guys that were fans of Lois would know she knows how to fight. "Uh oh, a big scary henchman is coming to beat me up. Let me fall like a helpless victim and hopefully someone saves me." Yeah, that made sense to me too. The kid was something that nobody wanted, and very few people liked. Let's let Superman almost die because of a kryptonite shank in the guts, but later have him lift an entire continent made of kryptonite. Yeah, that made sense to me to. Ooh, we should have Lex Luthor wear wigs and have the lamest evil plan ever. Yeah, because I know I'd want to live on a big, dark, and ugly crystal continent too. Yah, the movie was beautifully written, too bad logic wasn't included.

[bosef982]

How does anyone that calls themself a Superman fan, and by that I mean someone that reads the comics, accept Superman Returns? Routh pulled off Clark really well, but his Superman left something to be desired. Bosworth was just lazy casting for Lois. You'd think guys that were fans of Lois would know she knows how to fight. "Uh oh, a big scary henchman is coming to beat me up. Let me fall like a helpless victim and hopefully someone saves me." Yeah, that made sense to me too. The kid was something that nobody wanted, and very few people liked. Let's let Superman almost die because of a kryptonite shank in the guts, but later have him lift an entire continent made of kryptonite. Yeah, that made sense to me to. Ooh, we should have Lex Luthor wear wigs and have the lamest evil plan ever. Yeah, because I know I'd want to live on a big, dark, and ugly crystal continent too. Yah, the movie was beautifully written, too bad logic wasn't included.

You people are just so boring. Its sort of sad. Go read a comic book. Leave the adults to decide the good movies -- or at least rational adults.

[Freddy_Krueger]

How does anyone that calls themself a Superman fan, and by that I mean someone that reads the comics, accept Superman Returns? Routh pulled off Clark really well, but his Superman left something to be desired. Bosworth was just lazy casting for Lois. You'd think guys that were fans of Lois would know she knows how to fight. "Uh oh, a big scary henchman is coming to beat me up. Let me fall like a helpless victim and hopefully someone saves me." Yeah, that made sense to me too. The kid was something that nobody wanted, and very few people liked. Let's let Superman almost die because of a kryptonite shank in the guts, but later have him lift an entire continent made of kryptonite. Yeah, that made sense to me to. Ooh, we should have Lex Luthor wear wigs and have the lamest evil plan ever. Yeah, because I know I'd want to live on a big, dark, and ugly crystal continent too. Yah, the movie was beautifully written, too bad logic wasn't included.

God, you're condescending. Did it ever occur that someone who enjoys reading Superman and Action Comics monthly get something out of the character differently than you do?

[igotatromboner]

Well **** guys, I'm sorry that I like the characters that have been written over the years, not the characters put on screen with Superman Returns. I read the comics, I've watched the cartoons, I've experienced all different versions of Superman through different kinds of media, and what Superman Returns had on screen were not the characters I've been presented with over the years and I was disappointed. I'm sorry I prefer the big blue boy scout and the smart ass Lois that isn't completely helpless, and the Lex Luthor that isn't an evil real estate engine. Sorry, that the comics and the cartoons brought me up to believe that Lex was an evil genius/ businessman and not some crazed ass with a stupid plan.

[Mr. Socko]

How does anyone that calls themself a Superman fan, and by that I mean someone that reads the comics, accept Superman Returns? Routh pulled off Clark really well, but his Superman left something to be desired. Bosworth was just lazy casting for Lois. You'd think guys that were fans of Lois would know she knows how to fight. "Uh oh, a big scary henchman is coming to beat me up. Let me fall like a helpless victim and hopefully someone saves me." Yeah, that made sense to me too. The kid was something that nobody wanted, and very few people liked. Let's let Superman almost die because of a kryptonite shank in the guts, but later have him lift an entire continent made of kryptonite. Yeah, that made sense to me to. Ooh, we should have Lex Luthor wear wigs and have the lamest evil plan ever. Yeah, because I know I'd want to live on a big, dark, and ugly crystal continent too. Yah, the movie was beautifully written, too bad logic wasn't included.

There is still hope :up:

I completely agree.

Lex is an evil real estate tycoon who builds a continent made of rocks! Genius!

You people are just so boring. Its sort of sad. Go read a comic book. Leave the adults to decide the good movies -- or at least rational adults.

Nolan used tons of good Batman comic material to influence Batman Begins and you see how well it turned out. He didn't make a lame distant sequel of a movie that was made nearly 3 decades ago because that doesn't know anything about the character.

[igotatromboner]

Thank you for your support of logic.

[WormyT]

I thought SR was beautifully written.
"I'm always around.."
"WRONG!"

With all due respect just what part was beautifully written?!
You realise this was a Superman movie and Superman said practically nothing in the whole movie. Last time I checked my comicbook collection Superman is NOT a mute alien. He speaks quite a bit.
Superman Returns was a dull, boring story, poorly concieved, poorly written, poorly acted and poorly directed. And if WB doesn't do something quick, we may not see another Superman movie for another 20 years.

[Mr. Socko]

Any back to the writers.


Singer>>>>>>>>>>Dougherty & Harris

[igotatromboner]

But Singer comes with Dougherty and Harris so how is he greater?

[Mr. Socko]

Poison Ivy: Every Singer action figure comes complete with Dougherty & Harris!

[Freddy_Krueger]

Well **** guys, I'm sorry that I like the characters that have been written over the years, not the characters put on screen with Superman Returns. I read the comics, I've watched the cartoons, I've experienced all different versions of Superman through different kinds of media, and what Superman Returns had on screen were not the characters I've been presented with over the years and I was disappointed. I'm sorry I prefer the big blue boy scout and the smart ass Lois that isn't completely helpless, and the Lex Luthor that isn't an evil real estate engine. Sorry, that the comics and the cartoons brought me up to believe that Lex was an evil genius/ businessman and not some crazed ass with a stupid plan.

I read comics, watched the cartoons, seen a few George Reeves episodes and seen all the Reeve movies.

Guess what? My idea of who Superman is is no better than yours and vice versa. To say that we don't understand who he is is very condescending.

By the way, I would like to point out that prior to Superman: The Movie, Luthor was merely a one dimensional evil scientist. It's because of Superman: The Movie, which had Lex interested in a business (real estate) that comics went and had Lex build half of Metropolis (which *gasp* requires a love for REAL ESTATE!).

[igotatromboner]

Poison Ivy? I walked out of SR itchy but what does that have to do with Uma Thurman?

[Substance D]

lol, imaginary heroes has a 34% rating on rottentomatoes.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/imaginary_heroes/

the other dude is directing a cheap slasher flick. they don't seem that accomplished to me.

[Mr. Socko]

Who directed Imaginary heroes and what is it?

[Substance D]

Who directed Imaginary heroes and what is it?

dan harris, and apparently it's a really ****ty movie.

[Showtime]

dan harris, and apparently it's a really ****ty movie.

I liked it, and what is wrong with slasher flicks? They are a staple in the movie industry.

[ROBOCOP CPU001]

he hate all films..or says he does so he can argue with someone.

[Substance D]

he hate all films..or says he does so he can argue with someone.

not really

[ROBOCOP CPU001]

ah...so i've miss judged you?

:)

[Substance D]

ah...so i've miss judged you?

:)

i love ur batman shortfilm, don't i?

[ROBOCOP CPU001]

i love ur batman shortfilm, don't i?


a bit below the belt there...

[Substance D]

a bit below the belt there...

then get off my ass

[ROBOCOP CPU001]

why..you enjoy it so much.

[Substance D]

http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/3913/batgg9.jpg

not as much as i enjoy that ^. LOL!!

[ROBOCOP CPU001]

you must do,you saved the picture.


cool isn't it..

[blueboy]

Besides the fact that i don't think Nolan will do a Superman movie this not the topic of this thread its really about Dougherty and Harris.

Reread what I said Retroman... I'm giving an example of a combo that should happen for Superman... I'm not saying that Nolan/Goyer should be apart of it...:whatever:

[blueboy]

Since when did David Goyer become a good writer? Last time I checked, when left to his own devices, his movies tend to suck...

Doughtery and Harris all the way.


When I mentioned the Goyer/Nolan example.. I meant get a good director and a writer who knows the comics inside and out.

[igotatromboner]

I read comics, watched the cartoons, seen a few George Reeves episodes and seen all the Reeve movies.

Guess what? My idea of who Superman is is no better than yours and vice versa. To say that we don't understand who he is is very condescending.

By the way, I would like to point out that prior to Superman: The Movie, Luthor was merely a one dimensional evil scientist. It's because of Superman: The Movie, which had Lex interested in a business (real estate) that comics went and had Lex build half of Metropolis (which *gasp* requires a love for REAL ESTATE!).

I'm not saying my idea of Superman is better than yours, I'm saying that you should know better. Superman Returns didn't have the characters on screen that have been molded over the past 20 years. Superman was doing what Superman should have done. Lois wasn't Lois. Lex was still a stupid wig wearing evil real estate agent. Singer screwed up. Dougherty and Harris wrote a script that missed parts, big parts, of the characters. We all love Superman here, that's why we're here man but you can't tell me Superman Returns was the best they could do. I'm not a professional writer or director and I would know not to put some of that crap on film.

[Maze]

you can't tell me Superman Returns was the best they could do. I'm not a professional writer or director and I would know not to put some of that crap on film.
Well i do sorry .

Did you ever ask yourself if it's maybe you (and others) who just can't appreciate Singer movie?

Seriously ;) it goes both ways.

Imo as a piece of filmmaking it's superb .(with flaws at the begining of the movie in the editing departement , and in the acting: Routh is a little bland imo in his first scenes)We could argue 100000 million times ,it will not change my point of view.And reading you it's doubful that it will change yours ..its' like that..

My point is: that movie divided fandom and moviegoers...let's accept it. everybody would benefit if some simply could accept and respect that some people really loved (or liked ) the movie and that others for their reasons did not. (and i'm sorry for them.i don't wish anybody to have a poor time at the movies.. )

peace .

[Maze]

But back in topic :woot:

If Singer want them , they will find a way to come back.

and i would be quite glad ..Singer is the chief onboard no doubt about that ..but i 'm sure that they "added" some needed (for the Dark Singer world ) lightweight (but clever) moments ,seeing that there were similar moments in X2.

[X-Maniac]

While I can appreciate the visual style, production values and what Singer/Harris/Dougherty were trying to accomplish, I didn't like their approach, and I thought the basic storyline was flawed.

The idea of Superman leaving earth for five years instantly means having to explain the simultaneous absence/appearance of Clark Kent (which got one line in the movie, as far as i recall, a contrived explanation about postcards being sent somehow on his behalf.. please correct me if you know otherwise). The idea of a child that Lois knows is Superman's instantly rules out the amnesia kiss at the end of SM2 (though most of the general audience won't remember that anyway), and means Lois met and slept with Richard very quickly (within days of sleeping with Superman), or Richard would not believe Jason was his son.

These basic 'issues' with the story make me question whether it was the right story to try to tell convincingly. As a concept it may sound fine, but start to think about the details and it starts to seem a little shaky to say the least.

Not to mention Luther's undesirable black rocks, the inconsistent effects of kryptonite (which varied very conveniently depending on the needs of the story) and the absence of any security on the Fortress of Solitude and its priceless artefacts of a dead civilisation.

I don't know whether it was the short timeframe (they suddenly had the greenlight on the project and just eight months before filming) that allowed these things to go on... but to me the end result just didn't feel right.

[igotatromboner]

Exactly. Some of you need to accept that what was put on film was utter nonsense.

[Maze]

Exactly.Some of you need to accept that what was put on film was utter nonsense.

No.

For you maybe (and some other people )

Good "debate"............;)

[Freddy_Krueger]

I'm not saying my idea of Superman is better than yours, I'm saying that you should know better.


.......




That's the SAME THING.

[Maze]

Ah Xmaniac ,

all the "problems" that you find in the movie are easily explainable imo .

it's getting a little late here i will do that tomorow , excuse me ;)

[Showtime]

you must do,you saved the picture.


cool isn't it..

He hasn't read the 1st draft yet. :cwink:

Wait...neither have you. :whatever:

[igotatromboner]

Nobody here can honestly say that Lex's plan in SR was well thought out and made sense. Nobody here can explain why Superman almost died because of a kryptonite shank, but he could lift an entire island made of kryptonite. Nobody here can explain why Superman left and didn't say goodbye. He's Superman, he always does the right thing. Nobody here can justify Superman's ability to knock-up Lois, and not reveal himself to be Clark. It may be easier to let Richard be Jason's father, but it isn't the right thing to do. Superman always does the right thing. Who decided Lex wearing wigs was something that needed to be on film? That was lame and outdated. How can Superman have a 10 minute struggle with a plane, yet show little or less effort lifting an island. Why was it so easy for Lex to walk right into the Fortress of Solitude? Explain that to me. Go ahead, I'd like to see you try.

[Superman4ever!]

Has Dini and Timm ever written a feature length movie, beside a cartoon? Not to disprespect what they do, because what I am calling cartoons are indeed fun and well done. I just don't understand why you would think they are the "2nd coming".yes didni wrote a scriptment for the Live action Btaman Beyond movie that was to be direvted by Boaz Yakin! i would have so loved to see that Film!!

[Superman4ever!]

Well i do sorry .

Did you ever ask yourself if it's maybe you (and others) who just can't appreciate Singer movie?

Seriously ;) it goes both ways.

Imo as a piece of filmmaking it's superb .(with flaws at the begining of the movie in the editing departement , and in the acting: Routh is a little bland imo in his first scenes)We could argue 100000 million times ,it will not change my point of view.And reading you it's doubful that it will change yours ..its' like that..

My point is: that movie divided fandom and moviegoers...let's accept it. everybody would benefit if some simply could accept and respect that some people really loved (or liked ) the movie and that others for their reasons did not. (and i'm sorry for them.i don't wish anybody to have a poor time at the movies.. )

peace .Maze your a complete tool that settles for less that was the crappiest film they couldve made with the stupidest concept, so they succeded in that! Singer needs his ASS CANNED!! I WANT A SINGERLESS SEQUEL!!

[Morg]

If I see anymore name calling and I will start banning, that means you to Superman4ever!

I'm getting tired of people coming in here to browbeat others just for liking the movie, so you don't like it? That's fine, but you have no right to curse out others who do.

Either debate nice or stay the hell out

[GreenKToo]

They were o.k....I think after seeing X-3 it was the biggest disappointment.It was just a "live action cartoon" with no depth.None of the 3,at least to me,were anything to write home about...but I'd have to say IMHO the 2nd was the best.I also think that they look like T.V movies.

[Super78]

How old are Dougherty and Harris?

Can we please Dith these lames, but if Singer returns, you can bet they'll be back.

I wonder how they got the jobs in the first place.........

Alright, come on.

Its pretty much common knowledge that Doherty and Harris with Singer are "one the same" -- if you catch my drift.

All three did vacation in Hawaii together and came up with the story to SR.

Vacation in Hawaii TOGETHER.

Anyway, D&H must also EXIT the Superman franchise along with Singer.

I mean, these are the guys who thought of the great plan of having Supes LEAVE earth for 5 years, while making him into a deadbeat dad!

[Freddy_Krueger]

Alright, come on.

Its pretty much common knowledge that Doherty and Harris with Singer are "one the same" -- if you catch my drift.

All three did vacation in Hawaii together and came up with the story to SR.

Vacation in Hawaii TOGETHER.



Yup, cause gay people can't write or direct worth a crap, right?

[Substance D]

Yup, cause gay people can't write or direct worth a crap, right?

not those three. LOL.

[explode7]

I think there shouldn't be a sequel to SR.

[C. Lee]

Nobody here can honestly say that Lex's plan in SR was well thought out and made sense. Nobody here can explain why Superman almost died because of a kryptonite shank, but he could lift an entire island made of kryptonite. Nobody here can explain why Superman left and didn't say goodbye. He's Superman, he always does the right thing. Nobody here can justify Superman's ability to knock-up Lois, and not reveal himself to be Clark. It may be easier to let Richard be Jason's father, but it isn't the right thing to do. Superman always does the right thing. Who decided Lex wearing wigs was something that needed to be on film? That was lame and outdated. How can Superman have a 10 minute struggle with a plane, yet show little or less effort lifting an island. Why was it so easy for Lex to walk right into the Fortress of Solitude? Explain that to me. Go ahead, I'd like to see you try.
I believe that I've given a valid explanation for almost all of these things in these threads somewhere....that doesn't mean that I expect you to except them....just that I gave decent explanations.

[C. Lee]

Alright, come on.

Its pretty much common knowledge that Doherty and Harris with Singer are "one the same" -- if you catch my drift.
Caucasian?
American?
Short?
Brown haired?
In the entertainment business?

All three did vacation in Hawaii together and came up with the story to SR.

Vacation in Hawaii TOGETHER.
Like almost all college guys do on spring break? Cool!!



In case you are too dense to get my subtle sarcasm....try this.....keep your homophobia out of this site.

[Showtime]

Unbelievable. I bet most of these people criticizing the script, haven't actually even read the script. The script flowed much better than the movie in my opinion and I like their writing styles.

[igotatromboner]

I believe that I've given a valid explanation for almost all of these things in these threads somewhere....that doesn't mean that I expect you to except them....just that I gave decent explanations.


Wow, good argument. "I've given valid explanations elsewhere" isn't an argument. Until you give them here there is no argument. I don't have to accept anything, especially when you claim to have made an argument not in this thread. Try again, because like I said. Nobody can explain that crap on film.

[C. Lee]

Wow, good argument. "I've given valid explanations elsewhere" isn't an argument. Until you give them here there is no argument. I don't have to accept anything, especially when you claim to have made an argument not in this thread. Try again, because like I said. Nobody can explain that crap on film.
It wasn't meant as an argument (I like to discuss many things, argue nothing....arguing is a waste of time)....you said no one could explain those things...I stated that I had given decent explanations for it before. Now....you can either search for them....or, if you can be patient (and not so hurry to "start an argument")....you can wait until I have time to re-write them for you. Try to act civil and get the chip off of your shoulder and life will flow more smoothly.

[Showtime]

Wow, good argument. "I've given valid explanations elsewhere" isn't an argument. Until you give them here there is no argument. I don't have to accept anything, especially when you claim to have made an argument not in this thread. Try again, because like I said. Nobody can explain that crap on film.

Actually, he did explain it, I believe it was in more than one thread. He provided and explanation, and just as you don't have to accept it, he doesn't have to justify it again and again to please you. I notice you use the word "argument" instead of "debate". :cwink:

[Super78]

Caucasian?
American?
Short?
Brown haired?
In the entertainment business?


Like almost all college guys do on spring break? Cool!!



In case you are too dense to get my subtle sarcasm....try this.....keep your homophobia out of this site.

Yeah, okay, whatever you say.

Again, Doherty and Harris were just as clueless as Singer as how to approach Superman.

I mean, come on, these guys actually thought that it was a good story to have Superman re-appear after a so-called 5 year disapperance and discover that he fathered a child with Lois. And then re-hash the same Lex storyline from Donner's STM (only this time to create a 'new krypton'?? WTF???)

Stupid stupid stupid.

[Showtime]

Yeah, okay, whatever you say.

Again, Doherty and Harris were just as clueless as Singer as how to approach Superman.

I mean, come on, these guys actually thought that it was a good story to have Superman re-appear after a so-called 5 year disapperance and discover that he fathered a child with Lois. And then re-hash the same Lex storyline from Donner's STM (only this time to create a 'new krypton'?? WTF???)

Stupid stupid stupid.

Thats actually a really good plotpoint and if the entire script was allowed on screen in it's entirety it would have been a better film. More rounded out, with Lex responsible for Superman's disappearance.

[Substance D]

Thats actually a really good plotpoint and if the entire script was allowed on screen in it's entirety it would have been a better film. More rounded out, with Lex responsible for Superman's disappearance.

yeah, show how the whole world was effected and not just lois.

[matrix_ghost]

If WB has given Brian Singer soo much creative freedom and still sticks with him despite Sr not making the amount of cash they had hoped for , why didn't they just let brian shoot the movie as it was written.

Or better yet , why did brian singer then cut down more important which would then show that Lex luthor was responsible for Supes leaving earth :huh:

Why do i have a feeling that somewhere in the near future WB is going to cash out on a extended version of SR

[Showtime]

yeah, show how the whole world was effected and not just lois.

That's what I thought the original idea was, it got lost somewhere in the movie. I thought the world was going to be in shambles, and the people would now be resentful. Now Superman has to win back Lois and the world.

[Substance D]

That's what I thought the original idea was, it got lost somewhere in the movie. I thought the world was going to be in shambles, and the people would now be resentful. Now Superman has to win back Lois and the world.

singer and his cronies are always talking big, but never deliver.

[Showtime]

I dont know about that, according to box office and fan reaction they delivered big with Xmen and X2. On returns there are just as many that liked the movie to those who didn't. The box office was good, not great.

[Substance D]

I dont know about that, according to box office and fan reaction they delivered big with Xmen and X2. On returns there are just as many that liked the movie to those who didn't. The box office was good, not great.

i'm talking about with ideas. people complained about x1 not having enough action or teamwork. singer said x2 was going to be bigger and better. it was basically x1 with better special effects. we wouldn't get big, epic fight scenes and teamwork until ratner took over. and you already agree that sr missed alot of opportunities to show how supe's vacation effected the world. and added to that, it still lacked action. there's no reason why it couldn't have had drama and action, other than singer lacking vision.

[Showtime]

i'm talking about with ideas. people complained about x1 not having enough action or teamwork. singer said x2 was going to be bigger and better. it was basically x1 with better special effects. we wouldn't get big, epic fight scenes and teamwork until ratner took over. and you already agree that sr missed alot of opportunities to show how supe's vacation effected the world. and added to that, it still lacked action. there's no reason why it couldn't have had drama and action, other than singer lacking vision.

I wasn't a big fan of Xmen and X2 at first viewing, I have since grown to really enjoy Xmen. I think X3 was a jumbled mess compared to what Singer did with the franchise. Sure there was some cool sequences and it was a fun movie, but X3 had horrendous dialogue and a huge plothole that is ridiculous.

Superman Returns missed alot of opportunities in the editing room and also in subsequent script rewrites the main focus of their idea was watered down. Was it a horrible film, no, but it could have been better. Just like X3 could have been better.

[Substance D]

I wasn't a big fan of Xmen and X2 at first viewing, I have since grown to really enjoy Xmen. I think X3 was a jumbled mess compared to what Singer did with the franchise. Sure there was some cool sequences and it was a fun movie, but X3 had horrendous dialogue and a huge plothole that is ridiculous.

Superman Returns missed alot of opportunities in the editing room and also in subsequent script rewrites the main focus of their idea was watered down. Was it a horrible film, no, but it could have been better. Just like X3 could have been better.

i never said x3 was good. x2 was a waste and didn't progess the story any further. x3 should have been x2, leaving the third movie open for a new villian.

SR just sucked on too many levels. Singer really dropped the ball on that peice of crap.

[Showtime]

i never said x3 was good. x2 was a waste and didn't progess the story any further. x3 should have been x2, leaving the third movie open for a new villian.

SR just sucked on too many levels. Singer really dropped the ball on that peice of crap.

I didn't say you did? Did I?

I was giving my opinion on X3. Alot of people love X2, just like alot of people loved SR. I thought Returns was better than SR, and I liked it, I think more could have been done and I think they hacked off to much of the meaty stuff.

[Substance D]

I didn't say you did? Did I?

I was giving my opinion on X3. Alot of people love X2, just like alot of people loved SR. I thought Returns was better than SR, and I liked it, I think more could have been done and I think they hacked off to much of the meaty stuff.

well, all that stuff wouldn't fix what was left in. routh, bostworth, the kid, campy lex, land schemes, goofy henchmen, bumbling clark, routh, singer, the writers, ottman... they all have to go.

[Showtime]

well, all that stuff wouldn't fix what was left in. routh, bostworth, the kid, campy lex, land schemes, goofy henchmen, bumbling clark, routh, singer, the writers, ottman... they all have to go.

Not on your plane then I guess, I thought Routh was solid in the role of Superman and Clark. I thought Spacey was much less campy than Hackman, and he was fine for the role. The land scheme I could have done without, the hencheman seemed pretty brutal compared with previous renditions. I thought Singer did a decent job along with his writers, Ottman take it or leave it.

[Substance D]

Not on your plane then I guess, I thought Routh was solid in the role of Superman and Clark. I thought Spacey was much less campy than Hackman, and he was fine for the role. The land scheme I could have done without, the hencheman seemed pretty brutal compared with previous renditions. I thought Singer did a decent job along with his writers, Ottman take it or leave it.

yeah, but do you think it was worth a 20 yr wait? do you think it was as great as it could have been, or as great as a superman movie deserves to be? i really don't even think it was a decent superman movie. now we'll have to wait 20 more years for a restart, and by then no one will care, because we'll have the technology to make everyone like superman...:csad:

[Showtime]

yeah, but do you think it was worth a 20 yr wait? do you think it was as great as it could have been, or as great as a superman movie deserves to be? i really don't even think it was a decent superman movie. now we'll have to wait 20 more years for a restart, and by then no one will care, because we'll have the technology to make everyone like superman...:csad:

I don't believe anything could live up to what a Superman movie should be. I think it was a nice way to introduce him but could have been better. I think you'll only have to wait until 2009 for a sequel.

[GreenKToo]

I didnt care for the land scheme either.I really wish zod would have been in S.R. like originaly planned by singer.Too bad law turned it down.:csad: Not on your plane then I guess, I thought Routh was solid in the role of Superman and Clark. I thought Spacey was much less campy than Hackman, and he was fine for the role. The land scheme I could have done without, the hencheman seemed pretty brutal compared with previous renditions. I thought Singer did a decent job along with his writers, Ottman take it or leave it.

[Showtime]

I didnt care for the land scheme either.I really wish zod would have been in S.R. like originaly planned by singer.Too bad law turned it down.:csad:

That would have made alot of sense, but it's fishy to me why they would get rid of a character because an actor turned it down. Zod could be played by anybody.

[GreenKToo]

I know,maybe its a false report??I cant see singer being so stubborn that he wouldnt use anyone but Law.Who knows though.That would have made alot of sense, but it's fishy to me why they would get rid of a character because an actor turned it down. Zod could be played by anybody.

[igotatromboner]

It wasn't meant as an argument (I like to discuss many things, argue nothing....arguing is a waste of time)....you said no one could explain those things...I stated that I had given decent explanations for it before. Now....you can either search for them....or, if you can be patient (and not so hurry to "start an argument")....you can wait until I have time to re-write them for you. Try to act civil and get the chip off of your shoulder and life will flow more smoothly.


When I say 'argument' I don't mean an angry verbal interaction, I mean your point. I can't say, "Wow good debate" when we aren't having a debate. I've made my point, and you said you had made your point somewhere else previously. That's not a debate where I come from, that's you not having an adequate response. I'm not really trying to start fights, I'm just saying that anyone would have a hard time explaining the crap that was in SR. If right was logic the movie took a left turn. I'm more than patient for you or anyone else to explain to me why the actions in the movie were the actions chosen and why they were the logical thing to do.

[C. Lee]

I'll try to dig it up in between my modding duties....that's why I didn't type up a long re-explanation....I'm kept rather busy with other things. I just wanted to let you know (and I have now had someone back me up) that I had previously made a decent explanation for things.

[igotatromboner]

No rush, being a mod can keep you busy. I remember all the heck me and JcDc raised awhile back during the casting wars. We kept the mods busy.

[Motown Marvel]

harris and dougherty are awesome.

[igotatromboner]

wrong

[Retroman]

Reread what I said Retroman... I'm giving an example of a combo that should happen for Superman... I'm not saying that Nolan/Goyer should be apart of it...:whatever:
My bad.:o Still don't see it happening though, sorry.

BTW The SR duo have already started doing their homework.:cwink:

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/7707/fasttalk2bl8.jpg

[GreenKToo]

Their is no right or wrong...only opinionwrong

[romeogbs19]

SR's script was sorely lacking.

Either Dougherty and Harris rushed the job because they didn't have too much time, or WB/Singer need to get additional writers on the sequel. My take is the latter. I've said it in the SR thread, and I'll say it here: Get a REAL author. My reco: Michael Chabon. You may know him as the Pulitzer Prize author of the Amazing Adv. of Kavalier and Clay. He's a BIG comic book fan and I think well capable of handling the dialogue for a Supes flick just as Puzo did for STM.

[Rizor]

Puzo didn't do squat for STM.

But Chabon does have a story credit on Spidey 2, which I think I excellent. Don't know how much of his material made it to the screen though.

[romeogbs19]

Puzo didn't do squat for STM.

:huh: Wait, Puzo handled the original screenplay for STM and S2, and I think he did a darn good job, given how well those movies have survived the decades, and still are considered among the best scripted CB movies ever. Did you not enjoy STM or S2?

But Chabon does have a story credit on Spidey 2, which I think I excellent. Don't know how much of his material made it to the screen though.

Yay! I seriously think we should push WB to sign on Chabon. I don't know how much of Spidey 2 he handled, either, but in an EW interview, he said his favorite contribution was the scene when Peter stops the steel wall from landing on MJ towards the end. Holding it up, mask off, he utters, "Umm -- Hi ... <pause> This is really heavy." Classic -- one of my favorite zingers in that movie :yay:

[Freddy_Krueger]

:huh: Wait, Puzo handled the original screenplay for STM and S2, and I think he did a darn good job, given how well those movies have survived the decades, and still are considered among the best scripted CB movies ever. Did you not enjoy STM or S2?





Tom Mankiewicz (sp?) cleaned up Puzo's bulky, uber campy script. We didn't really see all of Puzo's intentions in Superman 1 & 2. Most of that was Mankiewicz.

[igotatromboner]

Look, S:TM had cheesy moments no matter who wrote it. It's 2006, cheesy and campy moments in superhero movies should be done on purpose and done with a joking tone. Superhero movies are trying to be serious nowadays and camp should be handled carefully. SR had lots of accidental campiness like many other superhero movies. Careless directing, writing, and even editing are responsible for that.

[markaudette]

I sincerely hope that they both mature as film writers by the time pen goes to paper for the SR sequel.

I have been very critical of SR's screenplay due to its lack of super-powered action. It was just ...boring. Subdued. Insipid. Droll.

May I please give a wod of advice D & H?

If there's ONE person who can deliver us some breath taking action, it's our solar powerd, nearly imortal demi-god last son of Krypton. He can do just about anything except read minds.

So very dearly do I wish that Tom Mankiewicz was somehow involved in the next movie. This is my biggest wish.

[igotatromboner]

Completely correct. It really surprised me when Superman managed to underwhelm in the action department. It's freakin' Superman.

[ervann]

I sincerely hope that they both mature as film writers by the time pen goes to paper for the SR sequel.

I have been very critical of SR's screenplay due to its lack of super-powered action. It was just ...boring. Subdued. Insipid. Droll.

May I please give a wod of advice D & H?

If there's ONE person who can deliver us some breath taking action, it's our solar powerd, nearly imortal demi-god last son of Krypton. He can do just about anything except read minds.

So very dearly do I wish that Tom Mankiewicz was somehow involved in the next movie. This is my biggest wish.

I think the action will defo be in the sequel - let's just hope they're big AND original (cn't stress ths enough).

But my concern is more the dialogue. That's where the writing really opens up. I just saw SR agaon on a plane and felt (again) that the dialogue just did not follow through with the emotions at play. It has its moments but overall, really just weak (esp between Clark/Supe and Lois).

[Motown Marvel]

Look, S:TM had cheesy moments no matter who wrote it. It's 2006, cheesy and campy moments in superhero movies should be done on purpose and done with a joking tone. Superhero movies are trying to be serious nowadays and camp should be handled carefully. SR had lots of accidental campiness like many other superhero movies. Careless directing, writing, and even editing are responsible for that.

no, you dont understand...the original puzo script was WAY cheezy and campy, like 60's batman tv show cheezy and campy....it was mankiewicz that came in, decided it should be played straight and serious, and crafted it into what we saw on screen.

[romeogbs19]

no, you dont understand...the original puzo script was WAY cheezy and campy, like 60's batman tv show cheezy and campy....it was mankiewicz that came in, decided it should be played straight and serious, and crafted it into what we saw on screen.

Not doubting you -- but if you're right, then why is it he's not credited at all for the scipt? In Supes 1 and 2, it's only Puzo's name underneath the "written by" category; I think people aren't giving Puzo enough credit here -- we'll never know what parts he delivered, but given his resume of the Godfather, you have to think he contributed a lot of the wit and intelligence to the storyline.

Which, BTW, wasn't present in SR. WB: Get Chabon!

[igotatromboner]

Where could I find this Puzo script? I just can't picture the Godfather guy doing a campy Superman script. I have to read this. Is it funny like the Kevin Smith/John Peters script?

[markaudette]

Has anyone else noticed about how little dialog is in movies these days?

That's what makes me appreciate Quintin Tarintino's and Kevin Smith's movies - the fact that their minds are somewhere deeper into the screenplay than anyone else. They've involved themselves in projects so much more intimately. Whether it's a rant about what the French call a Big Mac or the wonders of donkey Bestiality - the writers wanted to jump into those topics and wallow around in them. Practically NO ONE in SR had more than two sentences to say. And the vast majority of the film is spent with characters spitting only one sentence at a time. I think the only person who spouts at least 3 senetnces in a row is the late Marlon Brando. Which is fine because I like to hear him talk. Clark and Lois have the most dialog invested in the movie and that only comes when Clark is giving Lois his "interview."

I am constantly offended by the current state of screenplays in today's films - they think I can't both like action AND long exposition. I think they assume that if I like a good action scene, I'm also too stupid to like a brainy film with complex dialog. I'm trully offended!

Even though I have really enjoyed the X2 and SR, they just seem unwilling to just let the character's talk. And I can't stand that!

You won't lose me by just letting characters talk. And I'm also NOT going to tune out if there's a lot of action on screen. I'm going to pay one million percent attention the WHOLE entire movie.

NO ONE in a Dougherty & Harris movie has chemistry together.

[romeogbs19]

Where could I find this Puzo script? I just can't picture the Godfather guy doing a campy Superman script. I have to read this. Is it funny like the Kevin Smith/John Peters script?

Ummm ... Mario Puzo wrote the scripts for the first two Reeve movies; that's what we're talking about here. Had he handled the SR script, no way would the dialogue have been that bland.

[igotatromboner]

Ummm ... the original Puzo scripts with the campy stuff; that's what I'm talking about here.

[Freddy_Krueger]

Ummm ... Mario Puzo wrote the scripts for the first two Reeve movies; that's what we're talking about here. Had he handled the SR script, no way would the dialogue have been that bland.

Once again, Puzo wasn't responsible for the final scripts for Superman I and II. Tom Mankiewicz was. Puzo had a script where Kolchak said, "Who loves ya, baby!" to Superman. Mankiewicz didn't. He took the camp down a notch as opposed to Puzo's almost 60s Batman take on Superman.

[Showtime]

Has anyone else noticed about how little dialog is in movies these days?

That's what makes me appreciate Quintin Tarintino's and Kevin Smith's movies - the fact that their minds are somewhere deeper into the screenplay than anyone else. They've involved themselves in projects so much more intimately. Whether it's a rant about what the French call a Big Mac or the wonders of donkey Bestiality - the writers wanted to jump into those topics and wallow around in them. Practically NO ONE in SR had more than two sentences to say. And the vast majority of the film is spent with characters spitting only one sentence at a time. I think the only person who spouts at least 3 senetnces in a row is the late Marlon Brando. Which is fine because I like to hear him talk. Clark and Lois have the most dialog invested in the movie and that only comes when Clark is giving Lois his "interview."

I am constantly offended by the current state of screenplays in today's films - they think I can't both like action AND long exposition. I think they assume that if I like a good action scene, I'm also too stupid to like a brainy film with complex dialog. I'm trully offended!

Even though I have really enjoyed the X2 and SR, they just seem unwilling to just let the character's talk. And I can't stand that!

You won't lose me by just letting characters talk. And I'm also NOT going to tune out if there's a lot of action on screen. I'm going to pay one million percent attention the WHOLE entire movie.

NO ONE in a Dougherty & Harris movie has chemistry together.

Since when does more dialogue make for a better movie? Talented writers know how to create meaningful character moments thorugh actions and not words. Anybody can create emtion with dialogue.

[Showtime]

I'm looking forward to see what they do with the sequel.

[Rizor]

:huh: Wait, Puzo handled the original screenplay for STM and S2, and I think he did a darn good job, given how well those movies have survived the decades, and still are considered among the best scripted CB movies ever. Did you not enjoy STM or S2?While Puzo does have the main screenwriting credit on the films, it doesn't reflect how much of the script is really his material. The Writer's Guild can be pretty messed up like that. For example, if someone writes a script based on a book, the script gets thrown out the window, and someone else comes on board to start from scratch, the old screenwriter still gets credit because the WGA deems that they were the first ones to adapt the material. Now, this isn't always the case, but there are quite a few examples (Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas credits two writers that had nothing to do with the shooting script, David Mamet is credited as the main screenwriter on Hannibal even though his script wasn't used, Leigh Brackett has a credit on the Empire Strikes Back despite the fact that she died before finishing it and her script was thrown out anyway, etc....). Nobody knows what's up with the wacky guys at the WGA. :)

For whatever reason, the WGA gave Puzo and the Newmans have the screenplay credit on Superman: The Movie and Superman II. This probably worked to some advantage since Puzo was probably thought of as a prestige writer at the time ("Look it's by the guy that did the Godfather!"). Hell, I personally thought it was pretty cool the movie was written by Puzo until I found out about Mankiewicz. Heck, Donner shoved it to the WGA by giving him a "Creative Consultant" credits after the writer's credit.

[Dan33977]

Alright, come on.

Its pretty much common knowledge that Doherty and Harris with Singer are "one the same" -- if you catch my drift.

All three did vacation in Hawaii together and came up with the story to SR.

Vacation in Hawaii TOGETHER.

try this.....keep your homophobia out of this site.

Amen, C. Lee! You are officially my favorite moderator on this message board. Also, please disregard my report of his reply. I wasn't aware that you had already handled the situation when I reported it.

[Morg]

Amen, C. Lee! You are officially my favorite moderator on this message board. Also, please disregard my report of his reply. I wasn't aware that you had already handled the situation when I reported it.


You mean ALL the mods, that alert was to every mod here not just to C lee

[Morg]

BTW kryptonitedog that was in poor taste, I'm removing all your posts and give a probation to boot. Next time one of us just will just ban you

[Lightning Strykez!]

:whatever:

*sigh*

[Dan33977]

You mean ALL the mods, that alert was to every mod here not just to C lee

Oh, I'm sorry...

[dar-El]

Tom Mankiewicz (sp?) cleaned up Puzo's bulky, uber campy script. We didn't really see all of Puzo's intentions in Superman 1 & 2. Most of that was Mankiewicz.

Please get your facts right. The campy stuff didnt come from puzo. That came from David and Leslie Newman who wrote also superman 3! Puzo's serious story was rewritten into campy garbage by them. Then when Donner replaced Guy Hamilton he got Mankiewicz to rewrite the Newmans script using some of puzos story and adding a more biblical tone.

[C. Lee]

yeah whats so wrong with posting up a picture??
some of you are like nazis in here

talk about being prejudiced,

how exactly is a picture of superman poor taste??
I think some of you children need to learn what a Nazi is before you go throwing the term around so loosely. Read my PM....I thoroughly explain why your homophobia is not needed or wanted here.

You mean ALL the mods, that alert was to every mod here not just to C leeBut I'm the nice Nazi.:cmad:

[Freddy_Krueger]

Please get your facts right. The campy stuff didnt come from puzo. That came from David and Leslie Newman who wrote also superman 3! Puzo's serious story was rewritten into campy garbage by them. Then when Donner replaced Guy Hamilton he got Mankiewicz to rewrite the Newmans script using some of puzos story and adding a more biblical tone.

The fact still remains that Puzo's script wasn't the final script used. What we see on screen isn't a result from Puzo or Newman's scripts. It's Mankiewicz all the way.

[Dark Knight]

It would be so easy to have Lex end up creating Metallo....with technology found or given to him by an artificial intellgience (Braniac). However, Braniac would not be revealed until toward the end of the film....to set it up for the 3rd film. Then in the third film.....Braniac would then merge with Lex and they would end up creating Doomsday. Easy.....problems solved.

[explode7]

^Stop spamming dude.

[Retroman]

Smallville's Jimmy Olsen Aaron Ashmore, the twin brother of X-Men's Shawn Ashmore reveals a bit of info i never heard before.Its a small world after all.

From TeenTelevision.com:

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/3328/2fe0.png

TeenTelevision: Hi Aaron. You have a roommate who wrote the Superman feature film? Weird coincidence?

Aaron: Yeah, my roommate Mike Dougherty, he and another friend of ours Dan Harris wrote Superman Returns so small world, yeah. They have a little part in the movie getting kicked out of a museum.

TeenTelevision: What's it like at home with the roommates? Chaos?

Aaron: It's actually pretty mellow. It's my brother and my buddy Mike and we've got two dogs at the house and a barbeque in the backyard. It's really laid back. Somebody's usually out of town doing something so it's pretty quiet.

TeenTelevision: Is there a lot of Superman memorabilia around your house then?

Aaron: Oh yeah. Comic books and posters.. all that stuff. I'm sittin' in the whole Superman world so it's kind of cool. Both my roommate and my brother were like 'welcome to the superhero world' when I got the Jimmy part.Source:http://www.teentelevision.com/d.asp?r=128457&c=1030
http://www.teentelevision.com/d.asp?r=128457&c=1030&p=2

[SupermanCan]

Kick them off the script and get in better writers.

[echostation]

the best way to appease everyone on this is to simply get Paul Dini/Bruce Tim or Stan Berkowitz to come up with say like a 20 page outline/treatment or just how a story should go... Hell even make it just 5-6 pages, at least let them COME UP with the story and general overall fitting of plot events

Dougherty and Harris can use that as a framework to detail it out and write a script... I think that would work much better than the script they came up with together

[Hugh'sMrs]

Alright, come on.

Its pretty much common knowledge that Doherty and Harris with Singer are "one the same" -- if you catch my drift.

All three did vacation in Hawaii together and came up with the story to SR.

Vacation in Hawaii TOGETHER.

Anyway, D&H must also EXIT the Superman franchise along with Singer.

I mean, these are the guys who thought of the great plan of having Supes LEAVE earth for 5 years, while making him into a deadbeat dad!

They were attending a wedding in Hawaii.

[dark_b]

Smallville's Jimmy Olsen Aaron Ashmore, the twin brother of X-Men's Shawn Ashmore reveals a bit of info i never heard before.Its a small world after all.

From TeenTelevision.com:

Source:http://www.teentelevision.com/d.asp?r=128457&c=1030
http://www.teentelevision.com/d.asp?r=128457&c=1030&p=2a really small world.:yay:

[Hugh'sMrs]

I think it's cool that the Ashmores are friends with Mike and Dan. Now I'm wondering if they knew alot about what was happening during the filming of X3.

[Eros]

I think some pontential screenwriters/film students on this board, may simply be jealous of Dougherty and Harris. For one they both have made it big in screenwriting, and 2 they got to write a big time Superman stroy for the big screen.

[Eros]

on a another note, i can't wait for the sequel

[superdupersuper]

dont forget

douhgherty and harris have been writing a new "Urban legend" movie

:whatever:

i dont think thats good enough to qualify them to write a sequel

if they wont proper action, go get Nicholas Meyer the director of star trek 2 and 6, the best trek movies ever,

and allow him to pump some proper sci fi action in

no need for dilly dallying, just bring on the action:woot:

[SatEL]

How does anyone that calls themself a Superman fan, and by that I mean someone that reads the comics, accept Superman Returns? Routh pulled off Clark really well, but his Superman left something to be desired. Bosworth was just lazy casting for Lois. You'd think guys that were fans of Lois would know she knows how to fight. "Uh oh, a big scary henchman is coming to beat me up. Let me fall like a helpless victim and hopefully someone saves me." Yeah, that made sense to me too. The kid was something that nobody wanted, and very few people liked. Let's let Superman almost die because of a kryptonite shank in the guts, but later have him lift an entire continent made of kryptonite. Yeah, that made sense to me to. Ooh, we should have Lex Luthor wear wigs and have the lamest evil plan ever. Yeah, because I know I'd want to live on a big, dark, and ugly crystal continent too. Yah, the movie was beautifully written, too bad logic wasn't included.


:heart: :heart: Well writen buddy i agree completly Superman returns sucked Xmen1 and 2 did not entertain me and singer most go.

[SupermanCan]

PLEASE, eliminate these writers, WB, out of respect for Superman.

[superdupersuper]

dougherty and harris are hack writers

and bring in Nicholas meyer for director,

he made star trek 2 and 6, the best trek movies ever and was going to do nemesis until morons at paramount decided otherwise

seems like WB are doing the same, sticking with singer and the end result will be the same

WB havent got any balls,

[GreenKToo]

I really wish that the script would have to pass some C.B. writers approval first before being accepted.At the very least get some to consult on the sequel.

[Paste Pot Pete]

!

Even though I have really enjoyed the X2 and SR, they just seem unwilling to just let the character's talk. And I can't stand that!



What are you basing this on? If there's ever been a complaint for Singer's movies, it's been too much dialogue and not enough action (I disagree with both, personally).

I can think of more "quiet moments" or conversations in Singer's movies than most "action movies".

X2 - Iceman & Logan in the kitchen, the scene at Bobby's house, the campfire discussion between Magneto & the X-Men, most of Nightcrawler's scenes, Striker & captive Xavier

SR - Just about every Lex scene, Lois & Richard at home, Lois & Superman, various Daily Planet discussions & meetings; just to name what I can remember.

What more do you want?

[batman44]

http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=0&id=39552


Next Superman Has More Baddies?

Michael Dougherty, co-writer of last year's Superman Returns, told SCI FI Wire that the upcoming sequel will feature at least one villain drawn from the DC Comics franchise. Or more than one? "Maybe," Dougherty said coyly in an interview on the set of his upcoming supernatural horror film Trick 'r Treat in Vancouver, Canada, on Jan. 15. "It's [Mr.] Myxyzptlk," he added, with tongue in cheek.

Dougherty said that it's likely he and his Superman Returns writing partner Dan Harris will again work with Singer on the sequel. "We're talking," Dougherty said. "We're bouncing ideas around with Bryan. Big ideas. Action-packed ideas."

Singer has said the next installment will be along the lines of the second Star Trek film, and Dougherty said the comparison is apt. "I think it's going to be a more action-oriented film," he said. "Again, the easy comparison to make was [X-Men] to X2, or Star Trek [The Motion Picture] to Star Trek II. I mean, I know that Bryan has said he's going to Wrath of Khan it, and by that he means, 'Let's take what we've already established—we've gotten that out of the way—and let's just make it shorter, tighter and more action-packed." —Patrick Lee, News Editor

Sounds good to me besides mking it shorter.

[FanboyX_Returns]

lol like ive said it's gonna have a bunch of explosions to make it seem like theirs more action, and the shorter running time is due to the cut budget, thats due to the tanking of the first movie.

This sequel is DOA!

[Freddy_Krueger]

Ummm...the shorter running time would be due to narrative necessity. Not the budget.

[blueboy]

I'll go out on a limb and say i'm looking forward to this... I watched X1 and X2 the other day and I can definitely see Singer amping up the action, so i'll give him the benefit of the doubt....

as long as he doesn't use Zod...:o

[lexlives]

lol like ive said it's gonna have a bunch of explosions to make it seem like theirs more action, and the shorter running time is due to the cut budget, thats due to the tanking of the first movie.

This sequel is DOA!


Sadly I agree - any Singer sequle is DOA and that means the franchise is dead for our lifetimes.

There is no anticipation, expecation or desire out there for a sequel that I see.

Not like with Spiderman or Batman or X-Men or, heaven forbid, Pirates.

[blueboy]

Not like with Spiderman or Batman or X-Men or, heaven forbid, Pirates.

Don't like Sparrow! Want some rum?

[Freddy_Krueger]

Sadly I agree - any Singer sequle is DOA and that means the franchise is dead for our lifetimes.



Our lifetimes? Being only 22, I'd hope that with a good 50 or 60 years of life left that there'd be some sort of Superman franchise between now and then.

[lexlives]

Our lifetimes? Being only 22, I'd hope that with a good 50 or 60 years of life left that there'd be some sort of Superman franchise between now and then.

Given that is pretty much a given a Singer sequel will do about like SR then at a minimum it will likely be 3 decades - and yes you will be in your 50's and sort of old.

But the other likely outcome is that they will deep six the franchise for good.

You have a choice - a sucky Singer sequel in 3 years with maybe not another film ever or at best till you are 52, or a reboot in 10 years with a world of possibilites the Singer continuity has closed/shut off.

[Freddy_Krueger]

You have a choice - a sucky Singer sequel in 3 years


Ah, so you now know that the sequel will be horrible. May I look into your crystal ball?

[lexlives]

Ah, so you now know that the sequel will be horrible. May I look into your crystal ball?


No, look at Singer's track record with Superman. Really, it does not take a crystal ball.

[Freddy_Krueger]

No, look at Singer's track record with Superman. Really, it does not take a crystal ball.

You mean his one Superman movie that grossed $200,000,000? The one with strong DVD sales and almost $50 million in rentals? That one?

[TheBat812]

You mean his one Superman movie that grossed $200,000,000? The one with strong DVD sales and almost $50 million in rentals? That one?
Not to mention one of the more critically acclaimed superhero films...

[Cosmic]

http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=0&id=39552


Next Superman Has More Baddies?

Michael Dougherty, co-writer of last year's Superman Returns, told SCI FI Wire that the upcoming sequel will feature at least one villain drawn from the DC Comics franchise. Or more than one?
What? "At least one" already indicates the possibility of there being "more than one."

"Maybe," Dougherty said coyly in an interview on the set of his upcoming supernatural horror film Trick 'r Treat in Vancouver, Canada, on Jan. 15. "It's [Mr.] Myxyzptlk," he added, with tongue in cheek.Well, maybe it was necessary to note that he joking, here. Because after Superman Returns, who knows what they might do?

Dougherty said that it's likely he and his Superman Returns writing partner Dan Harris will again work with Singer on the sequel. "We're talking," Dougherty said. "We're bouncing ideas around with Bryan. Big ideas. Action-packed ideas." Yes, this time, Lex Luthor will expand his evil real-estate scheme to intergalactic proportions!

Singer has said the next installment will be along the lines of the second Star Trek film, and Dougherty said the comparison is apt. "I think it's going to be a more action-oriented film," he said. "Again, the easy comparison to make was [X-Men] to X2, or Star Trek [The Motion Picture] to Star Trek II. I mean, I know that Bryan has said he's going to Wrath of Khan it, and by that he means, 'Let's take what we've already established—
Yes, I agree that he should "Wrath of Khan it." The first step, of course, would be to bring in a new creative team, just as they did with Star Trek II. The second step would be to begin the writing process from a perspective which ignores the events of the first movie.

we've gotten that out of the way—
Yes, because it was so inconvenient...having to reintroduce the characters to the silver screen, and all.

and let's just make it shorter, tighter and more action-packed."
So Jason Returns will be even MORE action-packed than SR? "More action-packed." I wonder how they'll pull that off while making it shorter and tighter as well? After all, SR was only about 2 1/2 hours long.

[Catman]

He said nothing new.

[luis85_tex]

Finally they might have a real villian fro mthe comics besides luthor, real fight scene's i hope,lot more actino but lot's of good stuff will prob. be cut down and will prob. i got a feeling it will have as much cgi and eeft's as new spider-man movie

[El Payaso]

Who needs a crystal ball if you have lexlives?




well at least crystal balls are delightfully quiet.

[Timstuff]

The big question here: if they knew that having actual supervillains was such a good idea, why the crap didn't they do that in the first movie?

I'm still pretty doubtful that SR2 is gonna get greenlight. Singer and co. just effed up too badly with the first one, and I kind of doubt Warner Bros. wants to get stung in the wallet twice. They already trusted Singer with 240 million dollars to deliver a box office smash hit, and he blew it with a 2.5 hour tribute to the Richard Donner movies.

The general public's opinion of Singer's "Superman is a deadbeat dad" storyarch is that it's probably only downhill from there. I'm afraid that Superman is going to have to hybernate in the FOS for another few years before he can make his grand re-entrance with a proper restart.

[Showtime]

The big question here: if they knew that having actual supervillains was such a good idea, why the crap didn't they do that in the first movie?

I'm still pretty doubtful that SR2 is gonna get greenlight. Singer and co. just effed up too badly with the first one, and I kind of doubt Warner Bros. wants to get stung in the wallet twice. They already trusted Singer with 240 million dollars to deliver a box office smash hit, and he blew it with a 2.5 hour tribute to the Richard Donner movies.

The general public's opinion of Singer's "Superman is a deadbeat dad" storyarch is that it's probably only downhill from there. I'm afraid that Superman is going to have to hybernate in the FOS for another few years before he can make his grand re-entrance with a proper restart.

WB signed off on that tribute, they accepted the pitch, accepted the script, they accepted the movie. Singer didn't get hired and make a movie behind WB's back and then sneak it by them. If you are saying Singer blew it, this means WB blew it. I don't think either is true.

The general public doesn't have this perception, some people on internet message boards do. That isn't the general public.

[bosef982]

Who needs a crystal ball if you have lexlives?




well at least crystal balls are delightfully quiet.

And more accurate.

[Kal-El Reeve]

lol like ive said it's gonna have a bunch of explosions to make it seem like theirs more action, and the shorter running time is due to the cut budget, thats due to the tanking of the first movie.

This sequel is DOA!

400 million dollars worldwide does not mean the movie tanked. You're as bad as those anti Craig people who hated Casino Royale.



WB signed off on that tribute, they accepted the pitch, accepted the script, they accepted the movie. Singer didn't get hired and make a movie behind WB's back and then sneak it by them. If you are saying Singer blew it, this means WB blew it. I don't think either is true.

The general public doesn't have this perception, some people on internet message boards do. That isn't the general public.

Agreed. WB approved the movie, so a few people hated the movie. So what. It still made moey. And the General Public doesn't care as much as fans of the comics or other forms of Superman in the media.

Given that is pretty much a given a Singer sequel will do about like SR then at a minimum it will likely be 3 decades - and yes you will be in your 50's and sort of old.

But the other likely outcome is that they will deep six the franchise for good.

You have a choice - a sucky Singer sequel in 3 years with maybe not another film ever or at best till you are 52, or a reboot in 10 years with a world of possibilites the Singer continuity has closed/shut off.

You know what. I support Superman no matter what. I waited 20 years since the last franchise which I have seen all those movies in the theatres save the first. And I have sat through things both good and bad done to the character from a crappy electrical Super Being, Nicolas Cage, Smallville, Lois and Clark, Superboy, and Animated forms. The character is still going to endure no matter what happens. It survived an era that felt that he was outdated twice.

I would not mind for a Singer sequel because I am supporter of the character no matter what. And the fact I sat through four seasons of Lois and Clark shows that I don't care as long as it has the"S"

[Timstuff]

WB put too much trust in Singer. He delivered two highly successful X-Men movies, so WB thought he knew what he was doing, so they put their stamp of approval on everything he did even though he was making some very dumb descisions.

WB had been accused of being too involved with their franchises in the past, so they thought they'd give a shot at just letting the director do things his way. Unfortunately that came back and bit them in the butt later.

[bosef982]

WB put too much trust in Singer. He delivered two highly successful X-Men movies, so WB thought he knew what he was doing, so they put their stamp of approval on everything he did even though he was making some very dumb descisions.

WB had been accused of being too involved with their franchises in the past, so they thought they'd give a shot at just letting the director do things his way. Unfortunately that came back and bit them in the butt later.

What zone of reality are you deriving from where this movie did poorly? WB had too high expectations for Superman -- they wanted it to be Spider-Man, which it wasn't. It pulled in more than the X-Men 1 and 2 and a bit more than Batman Begins -- all of those films are considered successes. WB having trust in Singer wasn't what bit them in the ass, WB dropping loads of money on the film (200 million is unreasonable for ANY FILM period!) while hoping that lightining would strike twice like Spider-Man is ridiculous. Even Spider-Man 2 did less than the original Spider-Man.

WB and some fans need to get their heads out of their butts and realize that Spider-Man 1 is not the standard by which success is weighed. The general public reacted well to this movie, it made more than batman begins yet, despite begins being called a success, many are hypcorites and say Superman Returns was a failure.

It's a double-standard not motivated by reality or good judgement (if a double-standard ever can) but by a baseless agenda to smear a movie because it didn't align to someone's narrow, preconcieved notions of what they believed Superman to be...apparently, they fail to notice that as many people as saw Batman Begins saw Returns, with both enjoying high critical praise.

Did it make its money back? Nope. But that's a bad decision on the part of WB, not on Singer.

You people need a reality check.

[dark_b]

400 million dollars worldwide does not mean the movie tanked. ok lets put it that way. the movie didnt tank. but the budget is smaller. please explain me why is the budget smaller?

[FanboyX_Returns]

You mean his one Superman movie that grossed $200,000,000? The one with strong DVD sales and almost $50 million in rentals? That one?

Yea the one that cost ALOT more then BATMAN BEGINS to produce, and market, and made LESS then Batman Begins in both dvd sales, and domestic boxoffice.

Oh, and hasn't yet turned a profit? Yea I think he means that one.

Yea I saw it coming two years ago, and got bashed for it.. Now look at them the fans for the most part hated the movie.
Singer did a bad job in his film dude face it... The movie was a giant pile of doggy poo with some Matrix like fx.
lol they even shot some of the scenes in the same part of town in Sydney Australia as the godawful Matrix series.
Singer had to much control of the project, and the WB let him do whatever he wanted, and it cost them... The movie will eventually turn a profit but in all reality this movie should have been as big if not bigger then Spiderman.
Even with the current boxoffice slump it should have done Pirates 2 numbers.
The facts are Singer had a bad idea for a movie, and he pitched it to a bunch of people at the WB that don't know how to really handle their dc characters. They liked the idea because they thought anything he thought up was going to be a winner after Xmen 2.
Well the old term "Don't judge a book by its cover" apply here.
Singer's Xmen 1 was terrible, and Xmen 2 was only watchable due to the action which was ordered by the studio when the first cut of the movie was done.
They paid alot of money to get some more action in the movie because he turned in an almost actionless Superhero movie... Sound familiar?

Anyway I hope I make it to my 60's so I could see another director get a crack at making a REAL Superman movie!

[Freddy_Krueger]

Oh, and hasn't yet turned a profit? Yea I think he means that one.



Wow, this again.

Let's do some simple math, shall we?

$391,000,000 + $92,100,000 + $47,000,000=$530,100,000.

And that's not including A) the Kryptin, B) worldwide DVD sales C) worldwide DVD rentals and D) ancillary sales.

But yeah. You go ahead and keep thinking the film is still in the red, chief.

[GreenKToo]

Yo Ho Ho Hown'ed :DWow, this again.

Let's do some simple math, shall we?

$391,000,000 + $92,100,000 + $47,000,000=$530,100,000.

And that's not including A) the Kryptin, B) worldwide DVD sales C) worldwide DVD rentals and D) ancillary sales.

But yeah. You go ahead and keep thinking the film is still in the red, chief.

[Xybalba69]

^^^^^...even with all that math..it was beaten by the incredibly popular PotC2 to a pulp...

[GreenKToo]

Pirates beat everything to a pulp, including ALL of the past C.B. films.

[bosef982]

^^^^^...even with all that math..it was beaten by the incredibly popular PotC2 to a pulp...

Idiot.

And thank you greenkToo, but you just tried to use logic to rationalize and reason with the illogical.

[bosef982]

Yea the one that cost ALOT more then BATMAN BEGINS to produce, and market, and made LESS then Batman Begins in both dvd sales, and domestic boxoffice.



OHHHH, buty ou won't say that Superman Returns made less than Batman Begins overall did you...because that's not true, is it? Superman Returns actually made MORE money than Batman Begins in overall sales, and we are not yet fully done with the DVD run to make a DVD assessment.

Poor little illogical fellow. Don't try to mislead next time, just state the facts: the world is much more than the United States and across the world, Superman beat out Batman Beings.

Hypocrite.

[superbaby]

POTC2 is longer than SR. it made billions. the length isn't the problem.

[John Bierly]

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117974449.html?categoryid=13&cs=1

[SuperDaniel]

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees!!!

[\S/JcDc\S/]

Could be a good thing as long as Superman on film is not dead I'll be happy.

[Pickle-El]

Oh well.....lets see what happens now.

[Superman-Prime]

NO!!!!

:cmad: :cmad: :cmad: :cmad:

[SuperDaniel]

What happens? Superman now has a chance. Maybe someone who understands his mittology(=more than 2 movies) and has a passion for the character and will take care of him.

As Singer himself said in the documentary

"Superman will exisit long after i`m gone"

THANK GOD for that!!!

[Pickle-El]

Sanchez from IESB chimes in...

dude, I really don't think Singer will comeback unless they let Chris McQuarrie right the sequel.

But like I have said in the past Dan Lin, Jeff Robinov were not fans of Superman Returns and not big fans of Bryan Singer and his team.

Now that Dan and Mike are not doing the sequel I guess I can finally reveal who the next villain was going to be, right?

Darkseid was the the final villain that they pitched to the studio.

Something tells me that they didn't really opt out of a million dollar pay check.

[markaudette]

Thank God!

There are no words to tell you all how relieved I am.

:yay:

[SuperDaniel]

^ Me too.

[Showtime]

Darkseid...told you Green K. :cwink:

[Gotham]

I really think they screwed up on the last film because of Singer. He was trying to make his film and they obviously didn't see it that way. But, they stood by him and a took a lot of crowd beating for it.

Considering Singer said that he was going all "wrath of Khan" with the sequel, it's a shame we'll never see the light of what they were thinking of. (You have to admit though, that airplane sequence was one of the best ever filmed). :hyper:

[Mister J]

I won't miss them. The script was the biggest problem that I had with SR. I hope they follow with a better characterization and plot with (hopefully) the sequel.

[JP]

Hmm....

[SuperDaniel]

Darkseid? I seriously doubt it. C`mon. They should`ve thought of that when they made SR. They destroyed the character of Luthor again and destroyed Superman.

Darkseid being the next villain makes no sense to me.

[Superman-Prime]

Fine, SR haters. You all ****in' wins.

:cmad: :cmad: :cmad:

Buggs should be happy for all of this bull****! I'm super pissed.

[Gotham]

Darkseid?

That would have been... amazing. Goddamnit! :cmad:

[SuperDaniel]

Darkseid? YeAH...RIGHT..

[X Knight]

so......is Singer still on board???? lol.

[Showtime]

If Dougherty and Harris are out, then Singer is out. Harris started working on outlines of the script, Dougherty took over and continued the work. Bryan and Mike pitched the sequel, contrary to what was reported, WB didn't like what they had to do with it. Now WB is moving on. The sequel with Bryan at the helm is officially dead at this point, and the chance of a sequel seems dead to me as well.

[Superman-Prime]

GOOD! I bet you're ****in' HAPPY!

[Showtime]

Darkseid? I seriously doubt it. C`mon. They should`ve thought of that when they made SR. They destroyed the character of Luthor again and destroyed Superman.

Darkseid being the next villain makes no sense to me.

That is what I heard the villian was as well previously. I told several posters on the board.

[SuperDaniel]

Brandon should be in JL now.

[SuperDaniel]

That is what I heard the villian was as well previously. I told several posters on the board.

Still...why didnt they thought of that when they made SR?

Maybe they would`ve butchered another great character in the DC universe...

Mr Freeze, Poison Ivy and Bane are good Batman villains and look at Batman & Robin...

Who would`ve thought of Ra`s al Ghul for the first Batman movie and make it work?

[ervann]

This is great news. The script for SR was, for the most part, terrible. I hope they bring in someone a bit more heavyweight to give the screenplay the right florish.

I'd love to see Routh in a brand new Superman film. They can discard SR altogether as far as I'm concerned.

The Plane sequence was great, but it's been on HBO a lot these days and I think the CGI Superman don't stand up at all.

[SuperDaniel]

They should make a restart now. AND BE FAITHFULL TO THE COMICS. NO JJ ABRAMS BUL****!!

[JP]

They shold scrap the sequel, get Brandon in JL, and have Darkseid as the villian in the 2nd movie.

[Showtime]

Still...why didnt they thought of that when they made SR?

Maybe they would`ve butchered another great character in the DC universe...

Mr Freeze, Poison Ivy and Bane are good Batman villains and look at Batman & Robin...

Who would`ve thought of Ra`s al Ghul for the first Batman movie and make it work?

Not sure what would have happened, if the 1st draft was completed, it might be leaked at some point.

[SuperDaniel]

Unfortunately, i think Brandon Routh is the new Superman so i`m just sad because of him. He was the only good thing Bryan Singer did for Superman. I want him to be Superman again.

[\S/JcDc\S/]

I want another restart with an origin story if SR is dead myself. Reintroduce the characters completely. Although there is possibility Supes movie franchise as a whole is dead :(

[Superman-Prime]

Wow, SR haters are sooo happy for this pathetic news, and officially for them, it is now dead.

I'm so sick of SR haters BULL****. You guys are pathetic.

[bgshw44]

i have no problem with this, i will have a problem if the sequel is not made, however i believe this move was made to get the ball rolling with what wb wants for 2010 in MOS.

[Showtime]

I hope Brandon gets to continue the role as well, but I think he is a victim of other people's misjudgement.

[Showtime]

Wow, SR haters are sooo happy for this pathetic news, and officially for them, it is now dead.

I'm so sick of SR haters BULL****. You guys are pathetic.

Settle down. Nobody is saying anything bad, its just opinion.

[bgshw44]

why do you guys think that MOS will not be made?? WB wants the franchise, but they want it their way

[Superman-Prime]

I'm beginning to give up a hope for the sequel, STARTING NOW.

[SuperDaniel]

Brandon was the only good thing of the movie. I really hope he continues to be Superman. But, as a Superman fan, i believe this open doors to more better directors to helm Superman. Bryan Singer is a great director but he was never right for Superman.

[Showtime]

I think Superman will end up being considered a "Choose Your Own Adventure" type movie. After watching Superman 1 & 2, you could go on and watch Superman Returns or move forward and watch Superman 3 & 4. The same thing happened with the Halloween series.

[Thunder Emperor]

If Dougherty and Harris are out, then Singer is out. Harris started working on outlines of the script, Dougherty took over and continued the work. Bryan and Mike pitched the sequel, contrary to what was reported, WB didn't like what they had to do with it. Now WB is moving on. The sequel with Bryan at the helm is officially dead at this point, and the chance of a sequel seems dead to me as well.

Thank God, I am glad Singer will not touch Superman again.

[I Am The Knight]

Can't Singer make the sequel with different writers? I don't see why the sequel is dead? Unless Singer insists on working with Dougherty and Harris, I don't see why it's not possible for him to return. Although at this point I wouldn't be surprised if it was announced that Singer is out of MOS, too.

[Robin91939]

Singer, in my opinion, will be still be on this project. I think that Siinger's best friend, Christopher McQuarrie (Usual Suspects, The Way of the Gun, Mayor of Castro Street) will be tapped to write the film. I myself am said to see Dan and Mike leave. I would like to see where they were going to take their vision in the sequel rather than see where someone else is going to take it.

I also love how so many people claim that Singer has no respect for source material but say that his X-men films were brilliant and that X2: X-men United is arguably the best comic book film ever made (And Mike and Dan wrote it). I don't see how you can have it both ways. He made a good film in Superman Returns. It wasn't the modern age Superman like most were hoping for or expecting. This was a clash of the Golden and Silver age Superman, and a good film.

-R

[bgshw44]

Can't Singer make the sequel with different writers? I don't see why the sequel is dead? Unless Singer insists on working with Dougherty and Harris, I don't see why it's not possible for him to return. Although at this point I wouldn't be surprised if it was announced that Singer is out of MOS, too.

then why wont they just hire a new director and new writers? why does the sequel have to be dead. you have routh, you have pretty much all the pieces.

[Showtime]

Can't Singer make the sequel with different writers? I don't see why the sequel is dead? Unless Singer insists on working with Dougherty and Harris, I don't see why it's not possible for him to return. Although at this point I wouldn't be surprised if it was announced that Singer is out of MOS, too.

It is highly unlikely that Singer will continue without Mike and Dan, unless they reached some kind of agreement that WB is bringing another writing team in to do the sequel and Bryan agreed to direct it. Highly unlikely.

[hippie_hunter]

The article says nothing about Singer not out of the project yet (though I wouldn't be surprised) and it seems that the project is indeed moving forward. I am really hoping for a sequel and with new screenwriters on board (hopefully they'll be good), they'll take the good of Superman Returns and fix the flaws of the movie (needs more action and more Clark)

[C. Lee]

Wow, SR haters are sooo happy for this pathetic news, and officially for them, it is now dead.

I'm so sick of SR haters BULL****. You guys are pathetic.

Try calming down some. You can express your point of view without attacking others.

[bgshw44]

Singer, in my opinion, will be still be on this project. I think that Siinger's best friend, Christopher McQuarrie (Usual Suspects, The Way of the Gun, Mayor of Castro Street) will be tapped to write the film. I myself am said to see Dan and Mike leave. I would like to see where they were going to take their vision in the sequel rather than see where someone else is going to take it.

I also love how so many people claim that Singer has no respect for source material but say that his X-men films were brilliant and that X2: X-men United is arguably the best comic book film ever made (And Mike and Dan wrote it). I don't see how you can have it both ways. He made a good film in Superman Returns. It wasn't the modern age Superman like most were hoping for or expecting. This was a clash of the Golden and Silver age Superman, and a good film.

-R


i would love to see what McQuarrie could do

[Binker]

Right now, I'm thinking positive (something ALL of you should do). That way; cry, moan, ***** won't be an opition. If they do a sequel, then they'll do a sequel. If they reboot it, they'll reboot it. The fact is; in the end, we'll be getting another new Superman movie.

[Showtime]

I really think the writing has been on the wall for a long time unfortunately.

[bgshw44]

i highly doubt that they reboot the franchise

[I Am The Knight]

It is highly unlikely that Singer will continue without Mike and Dan, unless they reached some kind of agreement that WB is bringing another writing team in to do the sequel and Bryan agreed to direct it. Highly unlikely.


Yeah it does kind of seems unlikely....Let's see what WB is cooking up. At least we got some MOS news, after all the silence.

[Showtime]

Well, it's definately more in the cards than it was previously. We'll be hearing more now that this news has been released.

[Robin91939]

i would love to see what McQuarrie could do
So would I, because his father is a friend of my dad. If he were to write it, I might be able to beg my way to a set visit.

-R

[bgshw44]

Well, it's definately more in the cards than it was previously. We'll be hearing more now that this news has been released.

which shows that WB wants to continue the superman franchise, but they want it their way, which im ok with

[SuperDaniel]

The problem is not the writers. Its Singer. Singer is the one who had the pitch and was telling them what to write. Fire Singer and i`ll be happy.

[bgshw44]

So would I, because his father is a friend of my dad. If he were to write it, I might be able to beg my way to a set visit.

-R


he is extremely talented and would love to see another oscar winner write another superman movie (Mario Puzo)

[Showtime]

which shows that WB wants to continue the superman franchise, but they want it their way, which im ok with

Continue Superman but not necessarily continue Singer's version. That is up in the air more now than ever.

[super-t]

i dont really carwe for Mike and Dan leavin and i doubt Singer will stay.....but as long as they keep Brandon im down for watever they do, or whoever they get to write and direct it.

[SuperDaniel]

I also love how so many people claim that Singer has no respect for source material but say that his X-men films were brilliant and that X2: X-men United is arguably the best comic book film ever made (And Mike and Dan wrote it). I don't see how you can have it both ways. He made a good film in Superman Returns. It wasn't the modern age Superman like most were hoping for or expecting. This was a clash of the Golden and Silver age Superman, and a good film.

-R

X-men are TOTALLY different from Superman. Yes, he made a great X-men movie but he ****ed up Superman, IMO. Thats the way it is.

He is good with characters that are like him. Outsiders, etc. Good for Marvel characters.

THat is not Superman

[bgshw44]

The problem is not the writers. Its Singer. Singer is the one who had the pitch and was telling them what to write. Fire Singer and i`ll be happy.

i just want a great superman movie, i dont care if you have to bring Donner back to do it. But dont do a Hulk, we have a cast, lets roll with it

[Showtime]

My opinion is that if Mike and Dan are gone, Singer is or will soon to follow and unfortunately it might be the end of Brandon as Superman. It's hard to tell.

[SuperDaniel]

Yeah. Thats what we all want, right? A GREAT SUPERMAN MOVIE.

Singer just wasnt the right guy.

I feel sad for Brandon.

[bgshw44]

Continue Superman but not necessarily continue Singer's version. That is up in the air more now than ever.

i dont care about singer's version, to be honest the more i think about it, singer's version was about as different as you could get from Donner. you have the cast, higher a talented writer and director and continue with the same cast, Williams music etc

[Excel]

Taking pitches?

HOW Do I GET IN TOUCH WITH W.B.???

Showtime is script done yet????

[Crook]

i just want a great superman movie, i dont care if you have to bring Donner back to do it. But dont do a Hulk, we have a cast, lets roll with it
Well, we have a cast that wasn't exactly outstanding. They were fine, maybe even good. Not irreplaceable however. If you're going to can the writers and director, and start anew, minds as well go all the way.

Spacey, Bosworth, and Routh bring the SR baggage. It'd just be confusing to the audience to continue on with the same exact people on-screen, but with different personalities.

The Hulk route is definitely the way to go imo. Superman isn't too far gone from salvation, especially if WB makes a full-steam reboot that makes sure to revitalize the character for the modern audiences once and for all.

[bgshw44]

Well, we have a cast that wasn't exactly outstanding. They were fine, maybe even good. Not irreplaceable however. If you're going to can the writers and director, and start anew, minds as well go all the way.

Spacey, Bosworth, and Routh bring the SR baggage. It'd just be confusing to the audience to continue on with the same exact people on-screen, but with different personalities.

The Hulk route is definitely the way to go imo. Superman isn't too far gone from salvation, especially if WB makes a full-steam reboot that makes sure to revitalize the character for the modern audiences once and for all.

as long as they dont do an origion. my second to last choice is a seperate adventure with a new cast. i prefer a sequel with the same cast, really dont care about singer. but you need the opening titles, williams music, crystal fotress

[Showtime]

Taking pitches?

HOW Do I GET IN TOUCH WITH W.B.???

Showtime is script done yet????

Heh Heh. It's like trying to get into Fort Knox.

[Showtime]

i dont care about singer's version, to be honest the more i think about it, singer's version was about as different as you could get from Donner. you have the cast, higher a talented writer and director and continue with the same cast, Williams music etc

Not sure how this is going to play out, I believe that WB was happy with Routh as Superman in general, but who knows.

[bosef982]

not to mention to relaunch Superamn in JL and then that...it'd be confusing....