Official 2008 MLB thread

[Jerry!]

It'll be like the good ole days with Rod Beck and Rich Garces!!!

That's like 600lbs worth of fastballs!!! :wow:

I think both of those guys are dead too.

[sinewave]

i think el guapo's still alive and kickin'.

[Jerry!]

****. Well one outta two ain't bad.

[sinewave]

yer battin' .500!

[Dark Donnie]

...
Scott Spiezio-3B-Cardinals Feb. 27 - 6:11 pm et

Cardinals released infielder-outfielder Scott Spiezio.

They should know by now that only the manager is allowed to drive drunk in St. Louis. Spiezio's life is a mess, and this probably won't help him turn it around, not that the Cardinals necessarily owe him anything. They were certainly more than generous when they gave him a two-year, $4.5 million contract after the World Series in 2006. Say it again with us... multiyear contracts for bench players rarely work out.

[cyborg ninja 14]

not a 6-man rotation, just an insurance starter for any of the sox's pitchers that will inevitably go down with an injury at some point this year.

So I took that too literally:o

[sinewave]

guess so. it'd be interesting to see a team attempt a 6-man rotation in modern baseball.

[Spidey-Bat]

It'd be a disaster. For starters, you're best pitchers would pitch less (not even 30 starts).

[sinewave]

It'd be a disaster. For starters, you're best pitchers would pitch less (not even 30 starts).

hey, johnny sunshine's back! i can always count on you to provide a sunny outlook on things. i never said it'd necessarily be a good idea, but it'd be interesting. i couldn't see it working on a team with a legit ace, though. maybe a team like the royals. it'd be an experiment.

[Dark Donnie]

It'd be a disaster. For starters, you're best pitchers would pitch less (not even 30 starts).

It works both ways, one could say your ace would get more quality starts, also a 6 man rotation in todays world is more like 5 starters and a long reliever who spot starts.

[Spidey-Bat]

Sorry I don't find something disastrous to be interesting.

I don't see how any team whether it's the Red Sox or Pirates would want to experiment with a 6-man rotation. You either lessen the number of starts your best pitchers have or you give a guy who should be a long-man 15-20 starts.

[Jerry!]

If it was the Phillies you would.

[sinewave]

Sorry I don't find something disastrous to be interesting.

I don't see how any team whether it's the Red Sox or Pirates would want to experiment with a 6-man rotation. You either lessen the number of starts your best pitchers have or you give a guy who should be a long-man 15-20 starts.

do you purposefully try to suck the fun out of this thread or are you just constantly miserable and argumentative in real life too?

[steintym]

I can't wait for opening day... this lineup is loaded and ready.

If the pitching can at least be average, the Tigers will be a great team.

The Tigers are going to be tough and I think their pitching will be fine. Couple of questions, but still pretty colid. I'd take Verlander any day.

[Showtime]

Colon can barely hit the high-80's. He's a mop up guy out of the pen at best.

Garcia had a torn rotator cuff and had surgery in June.

Luckily the Red Sox pitching staff is so good they are just insurance to fill in as the Scott Schneider role.

[Fran]

The Tigers are going to be tough and I think their pitching will be fine. Couple of questions, but still pretty colid. I'd take Verlander any day.

Verlander will be fine. Hopefully a top-5 Cy Young finish for him this year.

Willis should be okay now... he has a much better defense AND offense behind him.

Bonderman needs to get mentally tougher, he could have started 13-0 last year :cmad:

[Spidey-Bat]

If it was the Phillies you would.

They don't even have a 5th starter so I can't see why they'd want to use a 6-man rotation.

[Jerry!]

Lighten........UP!!!!

[Spidey-Bat]

What makes you think I'm not?

[El ASESINO]

All I have to say is lets go BRAVES!

[cyborg ninja 14]

hey, johnny sunshine's back! i can always count on you to provide a sunny outlook on things. i never said it'd necessarily be a good idea, but it'd be interesting. i couldn't see it working on a team with a legit ace, though. maybe a team like the royals. it'd be an experiment.

Kinda like when Sweet Lou came close to flipping the dynamic completely and starting bullpen guys, and finishing off with the starters or some craziness.

[NewYorkSpider]

It's good to see baseball scores at the bottom of the ESPN ticker. That means we're getting closer.

[Dark Donnie]

Andruw Jones-OF-Dodgers Feb. 28 - 10:35 am et

Andruw Jones reported to Dodgers camp weighing 240 pounds.

Jones is listed at 210 pounds on MLB.com, but has clearly put on a significant amount of weight in recent years. Jones stole 20-plus bases in each of his first four seasons and swiped 11 bags in 2001, but hasn't reached double digits since and went 5-for-7 on the bases last year.
Source: Atlanta Journal Constitution

[sinewave]

Kinda like when Sweet Lou came close to flipping the dynamic completely and starting bullpen guys, and finishing off with the starters or some craziness.

gotta love that wacky sweet lou.

Andruw Jones-OF-Dodgers Feb. 28 - 10:35 am et

Andruw Jones reported to Dodgers camp weighing 240 pounds.

Jones is listed at 210 pounds on MLB.com, but has clearly put on a significant amount of weight in recent years. Jones stole 20-plus bases in each of his first four seasons and swiped 11 bags in 2001, but hasn't reached double digits since and went 5-for-7 on the bases last year.
Source: Atlanta Journal Constitution

uh oh. that's not gonna help him get back to his normal numbers.

[cyborg ninja 14]

Andruw Jones-OF-Dodgers Feb. 28 - 10:35 am et

Andruw Jones reported to Dodgers camp weighing 240 pounds.

Jones is listed at 210 pounds on MLB.com, but has clearly put on a significant amount of weight in recent years. Jones stole 20-plus bases in each of his first four seasons and swiped 11 bags in 2001, but hasn't reached double digits since and went 5-for-7 on the bases last year.
Source: Atlanta Journal Constitution

:applaud

[steintym]

Andruw Jones-OF-Dodgers Feb. 28 - 10:35 am et

Andruw Jones reported to Dodgers camp weighing 240 pounds.

Jones is listed at 210 pounds on MLB.com, but has clearly put on a significant amount of weight in recent years. Jones stole 20-plus bases in each of his first four seasons and swiped 11 bags in 2001, but hasn't reached double digits since and went 5-for-7 on the bases last year.
Source: Atlanta Journal Constitution

Not looking good for Jones. Sounds like he's off to a rough start in LA.

[Raiden]

Not looking good for Jones. Sounds like he's off to a rough start in LA.

Dodgers should put him on the Hollywood Diet.

[Dodger]

It seems like no one is going to give Jones a chance this year. Besides I've seen his pictures he doesn't really look at 240 pounds.

[Dodger]

Andruw Jones-OF-Dodgers Feb. 28 - 10:35 am et

Andruw Jones reported to Dodgers camp weighing 240 pounds.

Jones is listed at 210 pounds on MLB.com, but has clearly put on a significant amount of weight in recent years. Jones stole 20-plus bases in each of his first four seasons and swiped 11 bags in 2001, but hasn't reached double digits since and went 5-for-7 on the bases last year.
Source: Atlanta Journal Constitution

Okay I just read the source. :rolleyes:

[Excel]

its says its from atlanta, not la

[Dark Donnie]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/12398/image_6696866.jpg

[sinewave]

it looks like he ate miguel cabrera!

[Dark Donnie]

it looks like he ate miguel cabrera!

He definately looks plumped up

[Spidey-Bat]

Steroids!

[sinewave]

looks like shawn green's retiring. congrats, spidey-bat.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/02282008/sports/mets/former_met_enjoying_green_er_pastures_99562.htm

[Spidey-Bat]

looks like shawn green's retiring. congrats, spidey-bat.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/02282008/sports/mets/former_met_enjoying_green_er_pastures_99562.htm

He was a free agent. And I'd rather Carlos Delgado retire.

[sinewave]

oops. thought he was still with the mets. yeah, delgado's numbers just fell off the table last year. maybe there's a chance he can bounce back this year, even just a little bit.

[DarthRekal]

Dodgers beat the Braves today!!!!!!!!!:word:

Hideki Kuroda to make his debut tomorrow:applaud

[Spidey-Bat]

oops. thought he was still with the mets. yeah, delgado's numbers just fell off the table last year. maybe there's a chance he can bounce back this year, even just a little bit.

I hope he can because the Mets have nothing at 1B. It seems like they're keeping their fingers crossed Victor Martinez walks and signs with them to play 1B or C.

[sinewave]

I hope he can because the Mets have nothing at 1B. It seems like they're keeping their fingers crossed Victor Martinez walks and signs with them to play 1B or C.

that'd be great. he'd probably play mostly 1B and catch one or two games a week, like piazza did towards the end.

[Spidey-Bat]

I'd rather they draft better. They're too damn cheap with the draft. Their refusal to overpay their slot is a reason why their farm system is very thin.

[sinewave]

from peter gammons:

Red Sox conditioning guru Mike Reinhold is satisfied with what he's seen in Bartolo Colon's shoulder and pitching coach John Farrell likes his velocity, so there was nothing to lose. … Freddy Garcia checked in at Fort Myers to be examined Wednesday. Garcia hopes to be back in August, so if the Red Sox were to have a rash of pitching injuries, they will have a means to compare shoulder examinations and see his progress.

maybe colon's healthier than we thought. we'll see...

[Spidey-Bat]

Healthy is one thing. In shape is another.

[cyborg ninja 14]

Healthy is one thing. In shape is another.

Wouldn't they both go hand in hand?

[Jerry!]

I'm rooting for Garcia.

[steintym]

from peter gammons:



maybe colon's healthier than we thought. we'll see...

Healthy now, but can he stay healthy

[steintym]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/12398/image_6696866.jpg

He does looks a little ... thick. Not a great way to make an impression on the new team.

[Spidey-Bat]

Wouldn't they both go hand in hand?

No. You can be healthy but out of shape.

[cyborg ninja 14]

No. You can be healthy but out of shape.

Then Colon wouldn't be very healthy if he's overweight:cwink:

[sinewave]

Healthy now, but can he stay healthy

that's the question...

[Excel]

http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news?slug=ap-bush-baseball&prov=ap&type=lgns

hahaha, Bush is actually pretty funny

[Nightmare]

Tomorrow at 10am pacific, Dodgers vs the Braves!!!

[BlackLantern]

yes due to his size Andruw Jones will be batting 4th 5th and 6th

[steintym]

yes due to his size Andruw Jones will be batting 4th 5th and 6th

:woot: Yeah, he's also going to be playing center and left

[DarthRekal]

Tomorrow at 10am pacific, Dodgers vs the Braves!!!
Kuroda is on the Mound :woot:

[Spidey-Bat]

Don't get your hopes up on Kuroda.

[DarthRekal]

Kuroda will be Okay.. it's not like we need him to be our Ace...

He looked good out there for two Scoreless innings :up:

[NewYorkSpider]

I heard that Loaiza was throwing batting practice pitches to the Braves.

[Jerry!]

Sober or drunk?

[DarthRekal]

I heard that Loaiza was throwing batting practice pitches to the Braves.
he sure was:cmad: :cmad:

we need to cut his ARSE


hey NYSpidey... when you do the MLB predictions.. please dont pick the Dodgers again .. kthx:woot:

[NewYorkSpider]

hey NYSpidey... when you do the MLB predictions.. please dont pick the Dodgers again .. kthx:woot:

I'm gonna pick the Mets and Red Sox.

[DarthRekal]

:up: Yes Dodgers Yanks series it is :oldrazz:

[NewYorkSpider]

That would be a nice series to watch, but it won't happen. There will be a sleeper team to make the playoffs this season and I'm still trying to figure out who that may be.

[NewYorkSpider]

Hank Steinbrenner opens his big mouth again. He clearly needs to shut the **** up.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3271124

[Dodger]

The Kuroda Kid was impressive in his first outing. I like how the first player he faced got a hit, but then he got a double play next. The more I see of him the more I like.

[Jerry!]

Hank Steinbrenner opens his big mouth again. He clearly needs to shut the **** up.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3271124

That was pretty funny. It's hard for me not to agree with him about ESPN and Red Sox Nation, because come on, and while he definitly isn't the person to talk, there is some truth to that. But he is wrong on both counts. It isn't a Yankee nation either. It's a Cubs nation. Except they don't have to flaunt it or brag about it or name it.

Oh and Santana looked grrrrreeaaat in his first start. (sarcasm)

[Darren Daring]

Cubs Nation? Wha?

[Jerry!]

It's a play on words. They didn't name it that. I just did because Steinbrenner was going on about "Yankee country" The Cubs are the most loved team in the country. It's so funny to see this rivalry go back and forth at each other like this, with the "evil empire" and now the Yankee country thing from Steinbrenner. They are more alike than they want to admit.

[Darren Daring]

No, yeah, I got that, I just don't' see how you decided the Cubs were so beloved.

[Jerry!]

If the Cubs ever win a world series, you will see, but I'm not sure how you don't now. I am dreading that day, but I know it's coming.

[Darren Daring]

Man, I hope that one day I'm part of a fan base that only exists when the team is successful.

[Jerry!]

The Cubs fanbase isn't like that at all. The words successful and Cubs have never gone together. They sell out every game, no matter what.

[Darren Daring]

Then What's the deal? I thought I would only find out how many Fans the Cubs had if they won? How is that not bandwagoneering? Are you just defining the fanbase as people who like the team no matter how sucky?

[Jerry!]

Well obviously you haven't seen their popularity as of now, which I find confusing, so that is why I posted that. If you haven't seen it by now, then you would definetly see it when or if they win a World Series.

[Darren Daring]

ahah, "Surely Everyone has been struck by the raging popularity of the cubs!" You're a peach, Jer.

[Jerry!]

Umm, no. I'm actually the farthest thing from being a Cubs fan, but I'm not blind enough to think that they aren't the most popular baseball team. This is so stupid.

[Darren Daring]

Yes, I agree. This is very very stupid. Where are you getting your data?

[Showtime]

Wait...the Cubs are the most popular baseball team?

[Darren Daring]

I know, news right? Have you been under that same rock that I've apparently been under?

[Jerry!]

Let me guess, the Red Sox?

[Darren Daring]

Jerry, if you could offer some kin of explanation for your findings, people might be less skeptical.

[Jerry!]

I am going by what team is most loved. I guess if you want to actually go by stats, of which I don't buy, then it's either the Braves or Yankees. Again I don't buy that. When you don't sell out PLAYOFF games routinely, you're not even the most popular draw in your city. Yankees, too many people HATE the Yankees with all their soul. Most hated? Yes, the Yankees are. Most loved? No.

There are really only 2 types of people that have a deep hatred for the Cubs, White Sox fans and Cardinal fans. That's about it. Wrigley Field. As much as I don't like it, it's the Cub's biggest star. You open up the gates to Wrigley on any given afternoon, even if there is no game being played, and people would still flock to it, just to eat there, just to be there, whatever. When they were in the NLCS a few years ago, thousands of people would be outside just standing around Wrigley Field, with no chance of getting in of course, but just waiting. They just wanted to be near. I've never seen that. I've never seen a fanbase quite like what the Cubs have.

[Showtime]

Let me guess, the Red Sox?

It's easy to peg somebody as a homer, but I'm not. I like BASEBALL in general.

[Jerry!]

Dude, if you know me, by now you should, you would know I'm the last person to be a homer for the CUBS. I've just seen it first hand, born and raised in Chicago.

[Darren Daring]

Well, that might be misleading Of course there are plenty of Cubs fan in Chicago. Let's go to, I dunno, Portland, see how many are hanging around with Jersey's on.

[Jerry!]

Well, that might be misleading Of course there are plenty of Cubs fan in Chicago. Let's go to, I dunno, Portland, see how many are hanging around with Jersey's on.

I believed that for a long time too, but looking back after they got as close as they did to the World Series, and before that the home run race, and even before that going back all the way to when Harry Caray first joined up with them, the whole attitude about the Cubs changed, it's tough to keep believing that it was just Chicago. Of course they won't be as popular in any other given city as they are in Chicago, maybe in Iowa there are, but overall, I don't see another fan base as expansive AND loyal as what the Cubs have.

They became an icon. The team that everyone rooted for, the "Lovable Losers". It also helped they were nationally broadcast. I always used to chalk it up to it being just in Chicago as well, but it's not, as much as I hate to admit that.

[Darren Daring]

Waitwaitwaitwait, are you just assuming this about other places? have you seen it in other cites and states?

[Jerry!]

No it exists. Just take a look at the history of the Cubs. You're acting as if this were the White Sox I was talking about or something.

[Darren Daring]

You need to give me something more than "it exists"

[Jerry!]

I can't believe I am actually being asked to basically convince someone of the Cubs popularity. Like it was some kind of recent discovery or something.

[Darren Daring]

Well, that's the case. Can you do it?!?

[Jerry!]

Not really, I've already said more good things about the Cubs in this thread than I have my entire life and quite frankly it's killing me inside.

[Darren Daring]

To Summarize: You think the Cubs are the most popular team in the country despite having only seen their popularity in Chicago, and having no Polls, Data, or other hard facts to back you up.

[Erzengel]

In terms of popularity?

Even not as a fan, the Yankees are the most recognizable team franchise.

[Jerry!]

I guess our definitions of popular differ then. I am going by which team is more widely loved. How the team that is most hated wins that, I don't know.

[Erzengel]

Well for the most part outside the city they play in, how can you gauge that?

And you state everyone hates the Yankees it's probably during the times when they were winning. In the past few years coming off their latest Dynasty, it's like any other dominating team and you see more apparent "hate".

It's apparent with the Patriots in the NFL. Outside of New England, does anyone else really like them? Yes I know there are fans in other states but in general.

Most people start to "hate" a dominant team. Yankees, Patriots, Lakers, Cowboys.

But in terms of "love", it's usually held to it's own city.

[fu manchu]

i remember some cable channel (i think its TBS) used to say that the Atlanta Braves was America's Team.

everytime i saw that, I always thought, "yeah, since when?".

[Erzengel]

It's because that was Ted Turner's station out of Atlanta. :o

[Jerry!]

Well for the most part outside the city they play in, how can you gauge that?

And you state everyone hates the Yankees it's probably during the times when they were winning. In the past few years coming off their latest Dynasty, it's like any other dominating team and you see more apparent "hate".

It's apparent with the Patriots in the NFL. Outside of New England, does anyone else really like them? Yes I know there are fans in other states but in general.

Most people start to "hate" a dominant team. Yankees, Patriots, Lakers, Cowboys.

But in terms of "love", it's usually held to it's own city.

Well see the Cubs never had that problem because really they NEVER won. It's almost as if some people are drawn to them BECAUSE of their futility. From I think 45' to 83' they had zero playoff appearence. That's nuts. They've only had one occurence of back to back seasons with a winning record.
The Yankees get hate from their ownership down, and it looks like that's not going to change with someone like Hank Steinbrenner at the helm. They don't have to be winning for people to hate them.

[Jerry!]

Alright I can't believe I'm doing this, but I have to end this. You want stats? You want polls? Fine. This is the closest I could find to what you are asking for Darren. Go to http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/attendance?sort=away_pct&year=2001&seasonType=2

Now the Cubs are never going to lead the league in home attendance, simply because when it comes to seating capacity Wrigley Field is I think the third smallest ballpark in MLB. But they are usually in the Top 10 in home attendance despite that. What I want you to look at is road attendance, more specifically the percentages. Because of the Cards winning their WS and Boston winning 2 in the last 3 years, the numbers are going to be a little off but it's usually as followed: the Yankees as number 1 and Cubs as number 2. Throughout the seven years that it covers, that was more often than not the norm. And going further and looking in the overall percentages column, the Cubs are first in a lot of the years.

Now tell me, what is more probable: Do the Yankees draw more fans because they are so beloved or because they are so hated in the rest of the country? And then I ask the same question with the Cubs. Because I sure don't see an out pouring of hate for the Cubs in the the rest of the country. Is it just a coincidence that it was the Yankees and Cubs?

[sinewave]

apparently there's a rumor that the dodgers are interested in trading for brandon inge. here's espn.com's rob neyer's take:


Inge to Dodgers makes no sense
posted: Saturday, March 1, 2008 | Feedback | Print Entry
filed under: MLB

Uh-oh. According to Mlive.com's (http://www.mlive.com/tigers/index.ssf/2008/03/inge_to_dodgers_tigers_talk_tr.html) Danny Knobler, the Tigers may soon find a taker for Brandon Inge:

The Los Angeles Dodgers have contacted the Tigers about Inge, and while talks do not seem to have progressed far, a baseball official familiar with the situation said the Dodgers remain interested in making a deal.

Inge would play third base for the Dodgers, who did not have a full-time third baseman last season and have been trying to decide between veteran Nomar Garciaparra and rookie Andy LaRoche this spring.

New Dodgers manager Joe Torre is familiar with Inge from his time in the American League, and Torre and new Dodgers third base coach Larry Bowa are said to be Inge backers.

If you're a Dodgers fan this should be your worst nightmare.

The Dodgers already have two third basemen. One of them (Garciaparra) can't really play and apparently the other one (LaRoche) is handicapped by his new manager's unfamiliarity. What to do then? Of course: Trade for an American Leaguer who the manager is familiar with. Oh, and maybe pay him $6.2 million.

That's this year. Inge also earns $6.3 million next year, and $6.6 million the year after that.

You read that right. The Dodgers already have a young player who's significantly cheaper than Inge and better, and yet they're reportedly considering spending $19.1 million to ease Joe Torre's spring dreams.

Maybe this is just a lot of idle talk. Maybe the Dodgers really do know that LaRoche is a future star, and that Inge is a future stay-at-home dad. But if I were a Dodger fan right now I'd be very, very afraid. Because the only thing that's going to keep the Dodgers from playing important games in September is boneheaded moves like this one.

[Spidey-Bat]

I really don't get the Dodgers.


And Jerry, the Cubs are not the most popular team in America. You're right in the heart of their fanbase so of course you'd think that.

And as for other teams hating them, it varies. The Mets and Cubs hated each other in the 70's. It looks like the Cubs have a rivalry brewing with the Brewers (no pun intended). In my life, I've seen 1 person here wearing a Cubs shirt and 2 or 3 wearing Cubs hats. Surely if you're idea were correct, I should see more than that.

[Dark Donnie]

I'd say its The Yankees, The Red Sox, then Dodgers popularity wise in that order.

[Kingfish]

yeah, jerry, i think there's a reason you're not getting any support for your theory. obviously in chicago the cubs are gonna be the most beloved. to the level you're talking about just doesn't exist in other cities. sure there are fans in other cities. but to call them the most beloved team in the nation is absurd.

oh and the dodgers are morons if they make that trade.

[Jerry!]

So the attendance figures everyone was on my back for finding mean absolutely nothing? That the Cubs being right up in there ROAD ATTENDANCE and overall attendance figures is just a coincidence? Like I said of course in cities like freaking New York, you aren't going to see a majority of Cubs fans. That is the same with any team. I don't see any Mets or Yankee fans in Chicago either. I'm saying OVERALL. Never did I say there was a level of passion in any other city like it is in Chicago.

[Spidey-Bat]

So the attendance figures everyone was on my back for finding mean absolutely nothing?

They're from 2001.

[Kingfish]

jerry, get over it. this isn't even your team you're defending. it's absurd to even try and call any team the most beloved team in the nation. there will always be bias, and there will always be too many factors involved to make any rational judgement about a team in this manner. no one has agreed with you (and likely the only person who would is that ghost rider kid, cause we all know how impartial he is) so can we just drop this pointless "which team has a bigger d***" debate?

[Jerry!]

Did you notice me saying that the Cubs can NEVER lead the league in home attendance because they have one of lowest seating capacities in the MLB? Did you notice that despite this, they are still in the top 10 almost every year? Did you notice in overall attendance, they have ranked 1st, over the Yankees, over the Dodgers, over the Red Sox. And don't tell me they are hated like the Yankees. Mostly every year they have a suck ass team, so it can't be that they have a gerat team year in year out. What else can it possibly be?

[Spidey-Bat]

Oh just shut up. No one even cares.

[steintym]

Part of the myth regarding the popularity of the Cubs goes back to the 80's before cable and satelite really even existed. The Cubs were shown on WGN which broadcasts nationally. They were one of the few teams that had every game televised nationally. If you lived in Iowa or North Dakota or whatever, there's a good chance the team you watched on a regular basis was the Cubs. Therefore, the Cubs had a pretty strong fanbase nationwide.

Unfortunately, for the Cubs, this is no longer the case. With ESPN, cable networks, season pass, etc the Cubs are no longer unique. They might have had a claim at the most popular to team, but that was years ago.

[Jerry!]

Well, agree to disagree then :up: And hey, at the very least we went a page or two without another *****ing match between Spidey-Bat and whichever Philly fan decided it was their turn.

[sinewave]

i'd say the cubs are probably the most popular team in the midwest, but they can't compete with the yankees and red sox on the east coast or the dodgers on the west coast. the yankees are probably the most popular across the country, and the world.

[Dodger]

I'm not loving the Brandon Inge trade. BUT if the trade can get rid of Juan Pierre and give Andre Either more pt, then I'm for it.

Wishful thinking, I know.

[NewYorkSpider]

I see Alfonso Soriano broke his finger. They said it's not a major issue though.

[sinewave]

I'm not loving the Brandon Inge trade. BUT if the trade can get rid of Juan Pierre and give Andre Either more pt, then I'm for it.

Wishful thinking, I know.

hopefully it's just a rumor. laroche is a better player. getting rid of pierre would be a plus, but not a big enough one, imo.

[Superman79]

So is anyone else as a baseball fan fundamentally pissed about the thought of selling the naming rights to Wrigley?? I mean there is just something fundamentally wrong about losing the classic parks...I miss 3 Rivers, and Candlestick and the rest :csad:

[sinewave]

^ yeah, that's one of the most iconic stadium names in sports history. i don't like the idea of "pampers park" or some similar nonsense.

[Dark Donnie]

So is anyone else as a baseball fan fundamentally pissed about the thought of selling the naming rights to Wrigley?? I mean there is just something fundamentally wrong about losing the classic parks...I miss 3 Rivers, and Candlestick and the rest :csad:

Candlestick Park takes name back from Monster
Wyatt Buchanan, Chronicle Staff Writer

Saturday, March 1, 2008


The name on San Francisco's football stadium is changing for the fourth time since 1995, but purists should finally be pleased as it will revert to Candlestick Park in June.

The San Francisco 49ers announced the change Friday, saying the contract with Monster Cable - whose name is currently on the venue - will not be extended and the team will not seek a new stadium sponsor.

"The next time we will talk about naming rights will be when we're moving to a new stadium," said Lisa Lang, spokeswoman for the 49ers.

The team is in preliminary negotiations with the city of Santa Clara on a stadium project that would cost more than $900 million. San Francisco city leaders are trying to persuade the 49ers to stay and build a new stadium at the Hunters Point shipyard.

Niners officials said the passage of Proposition H by San Francisco voters in 2004, by which voters expressed their desire for the stadium to be called Candlestick Park, limited the team's ability to find a new sponsor. The team split proceeds of the naming deal with the city's Recreation and Park Department, which runs the city-owned facility.

The company paid $6 million over four years to win the naming agreement. Now, city workers will take down the Monster Park signs and replace them with Candlestick Park signs, though it is unclear who will pay for them.

"General Manager Yomi Agunbiade is talking with the 49ers right now about next steps," said Rose Dennis, spokeswoman for the recreation department. Dennis said the naming contract expires May 31 and the new signs will be up before the beginning of the next football season.

The storied stadium, which at one time was home to both the 49ers and the San Francisco Giants baseball team, was first named for a corporate sponsor in 1995, when 3Com Corp. bought the rights.

The next year, the Board of Supervisors changed the stadium's name from "3Com Park" to "3Com Park at Candlestick Point." That name stayed until the contract with 3Com expired in 2002.

The recreation department then renamed the stadium "San Francisco Stadium at Candlestick Point" and the board blocked several attempts by the 49ers to find a new sponsor.

In 2004, the city relented and the 49ers struck the deal with Monster Cable. A few months later, 54 percent of voters passed Prop. H.

The 49ers are now negotiating with Monster Cable for the company to become a corporate sponsor of the team, Lang said.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/03/01/BA47VBK33.DTL&tsp=1

[Superman79]

^ Nice. Good to see some tradition coming back into stadium naming

[Jerry!]

So is anyone else as a baseball fan fundamentally pissed about the thought of selling the naming rights to Wrigley?? I mean there is just something fundamentally wrong about losing the classic parks...I miss 3 Rivers, and Candlestick and the rest :csad:

I can only pray.

[Erzengel]

I love that Yankee Stadium is still called that, also Madison Square Garden and Giants Stadium. :up:

[Captain Planet!]

They are changing the name of Orioles Park at Camden Yards to "Visting Team's Fan's Park at Camden Yards".

[cyborg ninja 14]

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0303/fantasy_a_young_johnson_412.jpg
Nick Johnson looks different:huh:

[Spidey-Bat]

He looks fatter or that's just wind.

Speaking of Nick Johnson, the Mets will likely need a replacement 1B since Delgado's hips are bad. His bad hips and bad wrists indicate he has nothing left since they are crucial for a power hitter like himself. Buster Olney thinks Nick Johnson, Scott Hatteberg, Richie Sexson, Kevin Millar, and Tony Clark are on the Mets' radar as possible replacements. All of them are an upgrade over Delgado, IMO. Hatteberg and Millar seem the most likely. Sexson is too much money, Johnson would cost too much, and Clark was just signed. However, since it's Buster Olney there's no truth to it.

[Fran]

I liked AT&T Park better when it was called Pacific Bell. I know that's the same phone company (or who AT&T bought out), but it sounded more original.

Also, would've loved to have seen the current Comerica Park be renamed Tiger Stadium.

[Showtime]

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0303/fantasy_a_young_johnson_412.jpg
Nick Johnson looks different:huh:f

They went to the Cecil Fielder Facilities in the off season.

[Fran]

Prince Fielder was their instructor.

[Showtime]

Did you notice me saying that the Cubs can NEVER lead the league in home attendance because they have one of lowest seating capacities in the MLB? Did you notice that despite this, they are still in the top 10 almost every year? Did you notice in overall attendance, they have ranked 1st, over the Yankees, over the Dodgers, over the Red Sox. And don't tell me they are hated like the Yankees. Mostly every year they have a suck ass team, so it can't be that they have a gerat team year in year out. What else can it possibly be?

Maybe they can win a world series and then they'll be really popular!

[Dark Donnie]

...

Brian Roberts-2B-Orioles Mar. 3 - 2:02 pm et

The Cubs and Orioles have resumed trade talks involving Brian Roberts, and one person familiar with the talks told SI.com discussions were starting to get serious.

Jay Payton is a possibility to go to Chicago in one of the scenarios. Sean Marshall, Sean Gallagher, Ronny Cedeno and Matt Murton are some of the players that have been involved in the rumors from the Cubs side since they first started up three months ago.
Source: SI.com
Related: Ronny Cedeno, Matt Murton, Jay Payton, Sean Marshall, Cubs

[Captain Planet!]

No... we need B-ROB! I hate Jay Payton.

[Spidey-Bat]

You'd rather have Brian Roberts and Jay Payton than 4 young players?

[Kingfish]

maybe captain planet is really peter angelos?

[Showtime]

That is a good thing...

[Excel]

loving papis fro; hope he keeps it

[cyborg ninja 14]

f

They went to the Cecil Fielder Facilities in the off season.
It's amazing to find a picture that makes Dmitri Young look like he's in better shape.

maybe captain planet is really peter angelos?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=SEFKY5VdO0I:o

[Dodger]

I love that Dodgers Stadium will be just that for the next couple of years. :up:

[cyborg ninja 14]

I love that Dodgers Stadium will be just that for the next couple of years. :up:

Have you been to Dodger Stadium? I was in LA on saturday but couldn't see from the freeway from wherever it was that I passed it. oh well

[DarthRekal]

I love that Dodgers Stadium will be just that for the next couple of years. :up:

Huh?:huh:

Have you been to Dodger Stadium? I was in LA on saturday but couldn't see from the freeway from wherever it was that I passed it. oh well
Dodgers stadium is on a hill... you cant see it from the freeways... you have to go UP the hill

[cyborg ninja 14]

Dodgers stadium is on a hill... you cant see it from the freeways... you have to go UP the hill

I remember seeing a sign that said "Dodger Stadium 2 miles" from the freeway. although I don't remember really looking hard enough, especially when youre trying to navigate through the goddamn traffic.

[Spidey-Bat]

Dodgers stadium is on a hill... you cant see it from the freeways... you have to go UP the hill
Even if it wasn't on a hill, you couldn't see it through the smog.

[Dodger]

Have you been to Dodger Stadium? I was in LA on saturday but couldn't see from the freeway from wherever it was that I passed it. oh well

Yeah I've been there about 15 times. The parking has and will always be crap. But the stadium is just amazing. From any seat too. I've sat on almost every level and have always had a great time. My favortie time to go is at a night game cause the sunset at Dodger Stadium is gorgeus.

Huh?:huh:


Frank McCourt signed a deal for the name DODGER STADIUM for the next ten years. I think this was 3 years ago? :confused: I don't know but he did sign that deal.

Even if it wasn't on a hill, you couldn't see it through the smog.

Too true.

[Kingfish]

dodger stadium has always been awesome the times i've went. only two complaints. the parking is ridiculous. you have to leave early if you don't want to sit in the parking lot for an hour or two. and secondly, the urinals. yes, the urinals. troughs? really? it's dodger stadium, not the kalamazoo county fair.

[Spidey-Bat]

and secondly, the urinals. yes, the urinals. troughs? really? it's dodger stadium, not the kalamazoo county fair.

Use a stall if it bothers you that much.

[Kingfish]

it was really more of a joke comment then anything.

[El ASESINO]

Speaking of stadiums I have been to

Dodger stadium
Turner field
Astrodome
Qualcomm Stadium
Sky Dome
Rangers Ballpark
Coors Field
Yankee Stadium
Shea Stadium

[Jerry!]

dodger stadium has always been awesome the times i've went. only two complaints. the parking is ridiculous. you have to leave early if you don't want to sit in the parking lot for an hour or two. and secondly, the urinals. yes, the urinals. troughs? really? it's dodger stadium, not the kalamazoo county fair.

Wrigley has the troughs as well. The smell is....interesting. The only time I went to Wrigley was when I was like 9 or 10, I was dragged along to a Cubs game for whatever reason. I remember thinking after the game "Never again, never again".

[Nightmare]

I love dodger stadium and theyve really upgraded it over the past couple of years. I love walking near the stadium and the smell of those hot dogs are just amazing.

[cyborg ninja 14]

From yesterday's ESPN spring training blog: "San Diego manager Bud Black likes to spice up spring training by assigning offbeat "class projects'' to the young players in camp. Last year Black found out that third baseman Kevin Kouzmanoff enjoys camping in his spare time, and he assigned Kouzmanoff the task of starting a fire in the clubhouse with no matches."
This has to be on youtube right?

[Kingfish]

That's actually something he adopted from Scioscia. Mike used to give even veteran players assignments like that. There used to be a video of Tim Salmon flying in a Blue Angels jet.

[Jerry!]

I know this belongs more in the Games forum, but MLB 2K8 got reviewed. Short summary of it: Same old BS. Gameplay lacking as usual, and this time the graphics are as well. Lots of features, but if the gameplay isn't any good, especially for a baseball game, that kills it. MVP 05 remains the best baseball game. If only EA kept the license to MLB and lost the NFL.

[Raiden]

I know this belongs more in the Games forum, but MLB 2K8 got reviewed. Short summary of it: Same old BS. Gameplay lacking as usual, and this time the graphics are as well. Lots of features, but if the gameplay isn't any good, especially for a baseball game, that kills it. MVP 05 remains the best baseball game. If only EA kept the license to MLB and lost the NFL.

That sux...I was hoping to pick it up for Wii...

[cyborg ninja 14]

That's actually something he adopted from Scioscia. Mike used to give even veteran players assignments like that. There used to be a video of Tim Salmon flying in a Blue Angels jet.

That's pretty cool.

[Spidey-Bat]

I know this belongs more in the Games forum, but MLB 2K8 got reviewed. Short summary of it: Same old BS. Gameplay lacking as usual, and this time the graphics are as well. Lots of features, but if the gameplay isn't any good, especially for a baseball game, that kills it. MVP 05 remains the best baseball game. If only EA kept the license to MLB and lost the NFL.

EGM gave 2k8 a B.

Fortunately I have MVP 05 for the PC so I never need another baseball game thanks to mods.

There was a rumor EA would by 2k which means they'd be making the baseball games again.

[Jerry!]

Haven't heard about that, but hopefully it happens.

[Dark Donnie]

Dodger...do you guys have a series scheduled at the Coliseum this year against The Angels?

[Dark Donnie]

apparently there's a rumor that the dodgers are interested in trading for brandon inge. here's espn.com's rob neyer's take:

I actually read a rumor about Pierre going to Oakland

[Spidey-Bat]

Juan Pierre represents everything Billy Beane dislikes.

[sinewave]

Juan Pierre represents everything Billy Beane dislikes.

baby-faced black dudes with a mix of latino and french names?

[Dark Donnie]

The Dodgers would eat a big portion of the contract

[cyborg ninja 14]

The Dodgers would eat a big portion of the contract

That contract was garbage to begin with. Ned Colletti is doing a fine Sabean-like job over there in Tinseltown:up:

[Spidey-Bat]

baby-faced black dudes with a mix of latino and french names?

Beane hates base stealers and out-makers. Pierre is an expert in both facets.

[NewYorkSpider]

I'm glad my friend doesn't post on here. Here's what he had to say today when we talked about baseball.

Johan Santana will win only 11 games.

The Tampa Bay Rays will finish 3rd in the east.

Rich Hill will be in the running for the Cy Young (He's a Cubs fan)

[Jerry!]

Some minor baseball news, Steve Stone will join the White Sox radio broadcast as the color man alongside Ed Farmer.

[Dodger]

Dodger...do you guys have a series scheduled at the Coliseum this year against The Angels?


It's an exhibition game at the end of this month.

Dude, I sent you a trade proporsal check your email. If you don't like the deal just decline it I'm on pins and needles over here! :eek: Not, really.

I'm glad my friend doesn't post on here. Here's what he had to say today when we talked about baseball.

Johan Santana will win only 11 games.

The Tampa Bay Rays will finish 3rd in the east.

Rich Hill will be in the running for the Cy Young (He's a Cubs fan)


Your friend would of gotten laughed out of the hype.

[Nightmare]

It's an exhibition game at the end of this month.

Dude, I sent you a trade proporsal check your email. If you don't like the deal just decline it I'm on pins and needles over here! :eek: Not, really.




Your friend would of gotten laughed out of the hype.

Isnt that series with the red sox??

[Dark Donnie]

I think The Angels...thats what the article said

[cyborg ninja 14]

I'm glad my friend doesn't post on here. Here's what he had to say today when we talked about baseball.

Johan Santana will win only 11 games.

The Tampa Bay Rays will finish 3rd in the east.

Rich Hill will be in the running for the Cy Young (He's a Cubs fan)

I love how the Rays' prediction is more realistic than Rich Hill:o

[cyborg ninja 14]

Beane hates base stealers and out-makers. Pierre is an expert in both facets.

I don't think he "hates" base stealers. He doesn't like guys being sent for the sake of simply sending them, especially if they suck at SB.

[cyborg ninja 14]

Your friend would of gotten laughed out of the hype.

There are those who have gotten away with worse:o

[Kingfish]

spidey-bat isn't wrong here, beane hates wasted outs. the A's philosophy is to not sacrifice outs with steals and sac bunts and instead to wait for the homerun. juan pierre makes absolutely no sense for oakland.

[cyborg ninja 14]

spidey-bat isn't wrong here, beane hates wasted outs. the A's philosophy is to not sacrifice outs with steals and sac bunts and instead to wait for the homerun. juan pierre makes absolutely no sense for oakland.

I know Beane hates wasted outs(like sacraficing for the sake of "gee, that's how you grew up playing the game. Might as well follow suit"), I don't think the same term applies to his thoughts on SB. He doesn't find it all that usefull. It's not hate, just a disinterest in SB all together.

[Spidey-Bat]

He dislikes them. He finds them overrated and generally useless. The very last thing he'd do is trade for Juan Pierre who not only makes too much money, but does two things he dislikes the most.

[sinewave]

He dislikes them. He finds them overrated and generally useless. The very last thing he'd do is trade for Juan Pierre who not only makes too much money, but does two things he dislikes the most.

you make a good point about the money. i think that would be a bigger factor in beane's eyes than his supposed dislike of steals. i'm sure if pierre was making the league minimum he'd love to have him. speed is very useful, whether you use it to steal bases, advance a couple of bases on a ground-out or run down deep flies in the outfield gaps.

[cyborg ninja 14]

He dislikes them. He finds them overrated and generally useless. The very last thing he'd do is trade for Juan Pierre who not only makes too much money, but does two things he dislikes the most.
True, he doesnt hate it. He just doesnt find it usefull.

speed is very useful, whether you use it to steal bases, advance a couple of bases on a ground-out or run down deep flies in the outfield gaps.

Many baseball people would agree with that.

[Spidey-Bat]

He definitely wouldn't want Pierre even if he made the league minimum. Pierre's selling point is being a base stealer. When you remove that part of the game, he's worthless. He has a noodle arm that limits him to LF, his OBP is disgustingly low for a guy who hits around 300.

[cyborg ninja 14]

He definitely wouldn't want Pierre even if he made the league minimum. Pierre's selling point is being a base stealer. When you remove that part of the game, he's worthless. He has a noodle arm that limits him to LF, his OBP is disgustingly low for a guy who hits around 300.

You know who would want him?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2005/05/23/PH2005052301358.jpg

[sinewave]

He definitely wouldn't want Pierre even if he made the league minimum. Pierre's selling point is being a base stealer. When you remove that part of the game, he's worthless. He has a noodle arm that limits him to LF, his OBP is disgustingly low for a guy who hits around 300.

so you're saying you've got firsthand knowledge that if beane had pierre handed to him at a league minimum salary he'd just outright release him? i'm not buying that, dude.

[sinewave]

You know who would want him?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2005/05/23/PH2005052301358.jpg

he probably would, even though he's got what looks like one of the best young outfields in all of baseball over the next ten years or so.

[cyborg ninja 14]

he probably would, even though he's got what looks like one of the best young outfields in all of baseball over the next ten years or so.

Don't keep your hopes up:csad:

[sinewave]

Don't keep your hopes up:csad:

about their outfield? markakis is already one of the better young OFs around and jones and reimold look great, too. they could fail to make it in the bigs or get injured, but i like the odds that they won't

[cyborg ninja 14]

about their outfield? markakis is already one of the better young OFs around and jones and reimold look great, too. they could fail to make it in the bigs or get injured, but i like the odds that they won't

No, about Angelos keeping the OF together for a few years.

[sinewave]

oh, yeah. you've got a point there.

on a side note, is angelos one of the creepiest looking dudes you've ever seen or what?

[Spidey-Bat]

so you're saying you've got firsthand knowledge that if beane had pierre handed to him at a league minimum salary he'd just outright release him? i'm not buying that, dude.

Why would he want Pierre? He believes speed his overrated and Pierre has an awful OBP for a guy with a BA of 300. He'd take him if he were free and making league minimum but that doesn't mean he'd want him. In fact, if he did get Pierre for free, he'd likely trade him.

[sinewave]

Why would he want Pierre? He believes speed his overrated and Pierre has an awful OBP for a guy with a BA of 300. He'd take him if he were free and making league minimum but that doesn't mean he'd want him. In fact, if he did get Pierre for free, he'd likely trade him.

i already explained the advantages of his speed. my main contention was your arrogance in saying "He definitely wouldn't want Pierre even if he made the league minimum.", like you've actually spoken to him about it. i know you like to think you're right about everything involving baseball, but that's just not the case. you know a lot, but you also assume your opinion is fact and that gets to be pretty annoying after a while.

[Spidey-Bat]

i already explained the advantages of his speed.
I already knew the advantages of speed but good you for anyway.

my main contention was your arrogance in saying "He definitely wouldn't want Pierre even if he made the league minimum.", like you've actually spoken to him about it.
Have you ever read Moneyball? I have. While I can't recite any specific passage off the top of my head, the impression you get while reading it is you couldn't get Beane to embrace speed even if you gave him a player making league minimum.

i know you like to think you're right about everything involving baseball, but that's just not the case. you know a lot, but you also assume your opinion is fact and that gets to be pretty annoying after a while.
My knowledge of Beane comes from Moneyball. Beane does not like speed, he finds it overrated. He does not like guys who lead the major leagues in outs. That is fact. Because of this, I do not believe he'd want Juan Pierre regardless of how much he made. If Pierre was given to him for free, he'd very likely trade him to a team who values speed in return for low-level prospects he likes.

If you haven't read Moneyball, I find it arrogant that you're assuming Beane would want a player like Juan Pierre if he made the league minimum since you have nothing to base your assumption off of. If you have read Moneyball, then I'd suggest you read it over again since it heavily suggests otherwise.

[Kingfish]

i tend to not like spidey-bats attitude about alot of things, but he's pretty dead on about this one. pierre would flat out be a horrible fit for the A's, free or not. beane couldn't care less that the guy is fast. he has absolutely no power and doesn't walk for s***. assuming he were handed to him for absolutely nothing, he most likely would immediately flip him to toronto for a couple of pitching prospects.

[sinewave]

i tend to not like spidey-bats attitude about alot of things, but he's pretty dead on about this one. pierre would flat out be a horrible fit for the A's, free or not. beane couldn't care less that the guy is fast. he has absolutely no power and doesn't walk for s***. assuming he were handed to him for absolutely nothing, he most likely would immediately flip him to toronto for a couple of pitching prospects.

i agree. he's not his type of player. but i still think beane's smart enough to know he can get some value out of him, whether as a 4th OF/defensive replacement, pinch hitter/runner or trade bait for a player more his style. saying he'd just flat-out not take pierre if handed to him on a silver platter, just doesn't sound realistic to me, but i could be wrong.

[Spidey-Bat]

Moises Alou to have hernia surgery (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2008/news/story?id=3278800)

PORT ST. LUCIE, Fla. -- New York Mets left fielder Moises Alou will have surgery for a hernia and miss the start of the season.

The oft-injured Alou left spring training camp Wednesday and was sent back to New York for tests on his sore right groin. He is scheduled to have the surgery on Thursday.

Alou is expected to resume baseball activities in four to six weeks, making it likely he'll be sidelined for at least most of April.

MLB.com reported on Wednesday that Alou was injured in a spring game against Atlanta on Monday.

"After the game, he felt it more and more," Mets general manager Omar Minaya said, according to the Web site. "He felt some more discomfort [Tuesday], and [Wednesday] he also felt discomfort."

The 41-year-old Alou batted .341 with 13 home runs and 49 RBIs in 87 games last season, when he missed a long stretch of games with a quadriceps injury.

"We came into the season with a track record of Alou, knowing that Alou was going to give us a certain amount of games," Minaya said, according to MLB.com. "We felt that the number of games he was going to give us would be very productive games, and I think that bore out last year."

[FaT_tONle]

God dang... screw Minaya for bringing in these bums... I don't get it... I mean what the hell do these guys do in the offseason.... they tweak something... and its Tommy John surgery the next day it seems for pitchers... or something wrong with the knee or spine for other players... I don't get the injuries in this game... this is why the Milledge deal will kill us...

[Spidey-Bat]

Actually, if they still had Milledge and re-signed Lo Duca, we'd still have injuries to worry about since Lo Duca had to have surgery. Who knows if Milledge would have been in a collision as well.

Minaya seems delusional when it comes to depth. Last year he was adamant that the pitching depth was fine when it was the reason the team failed. This year, he's backing up old and injured players with more old and injured players. I personally hope he goes out and trades for Matt Murton, Marcus Thames, or Kevin Millar shortly.

[FaT_tONle]

Yeah but those guys are just the Journeymen type players that every big market team brings in the last minute... I'm worried about the offense... I mean I expect HUGE years out of Beltran and Wright... I think Ricky Henderson's attitude my have rubbed itself a little too much on Reyes so I expect that effect to linger for a good third of the season... but there is zero depth in that lineup right now... if the bullpen isn't fantastic this year they won't be going to the World Series... that's all there is to it.

[cyborg ninja 14]

oh, yeah. you've got a point there.

on a side note, is angelos one of the creepiest looking dudes you've ever seen or what?
Yeah, that's why I posted the link instead of the picture:woot:

I personally hope he goes out and trades for Matt Murton, Marcus Thames, or Kevin Millar shortly.
You've gone mad:shock

[Spidey-Bat]

Yeah but those guys are just the Journeymen type players that every big market team brings in the last minute... I'm worried about the offense... I mean I expect HUGE years out of Beltran and Wright... I think Ricky Henderson's attitude my have rubbed itself a little too much on Reyes so I expect that effect to linger for a good third of the season... but there is zero depth in that lineup right now... if the bullpen isn't fantastic this year they won't be going to the World Series... that's all there is to it.

Rickey's effect on Jose is overrated. All Rickey did was send Reyes too much which wore him out. However, if Willie Randolph had half a brain, he would have rested Reyes earlier in the season.

You've gone mad:shock
They're the best available options now since Minaya did nothing when there were FA's available.

[cyborg ninja 14]

Rickey's effect on Jose is overrated. All Rickey did was send Reyes too much which wore him out. However, if Willie Randolph had half a brain, he would have rested Reyes earlier in the season.


They're the best available options now since Minaya did nothing when there were FA's available.

Wouldn't Murton be the better player of the three anyway? Millar is useless now.

[Spidey-Bat]

Yes. However the Mets don't have much that the Cubs would want. Millar is an upgrade over Delgado and would be a fine part-time player in LF for Alou. He's also not a stiff like Delgado which helps as well.

[cyborg ninja 14]

Yes. However the Mets don't have much that the Cubs would want. Millar is an upgrade over Delgado and would be a fine part-time player in LF for Alou. He's also not a stiff like Delgado which helps as well.

I havent checked the numbers, but you probably are right.

[Spidey-Bat]

I havent checked the numbers, but you probably are right.

Millar's OPS last year is only 4 pts higher than Delgado's. However, his OBP is 32 pts higher and he drew 17 more walks and struck out 24 fewer times. He played 1 more game than Delgado (140 vs 139) and had 45 fewer plate appearances. If you put him in the Mets' lineup, I believe he'd be a greater offensive contributor than Delgado.

[Nightmare]

Millar would be a very nice fit in NY. But they'll likely just sign someone old and over the hill instead.

[Spidey-Bat]

I don't think there is a FA to sign for them. They may wait until some guys are released later in ST.

Just a side note. I downloaded the MLB 2k8 demo for the 360. The demo blows. The in-game pause menu is too small to read. The new pitching system is awful and impossible to control and you can't change it to the classic system in the demo. Definitely not a must-buy now.

[NewYorkSpider]

I'm guessing the PS3 will be the same?

[Spidey-Bat]

I'm guessing the PS3 will be the same?

Probably. If you have the PS3, 08 The Show seems like the better option anyway.

[NewYorkSpider]

Probably. If you have the PS3, 08 The Show seems like the better option anyway.

I love the 2k games. I'll have to read up on 08 The Show and the reviews.

[Spidey-Bat]

The 2k games are decent, IMO. I never really cared for the Show though I have only played 06 which was the first game of the series. I'm going to rent 2k8 just to see how it is since the demo is awful and forces you to play with the horrible pitching and hitting systems.

[NewYorkSpider]

I just read a little on 08 The Show and it doesn't sound too bad. This is one thing I'm glad they fixed.

The commentators are smart enough to remember what happened in every inning, and they will make all the references you expect them to. We haven't heard a single repeated line yet -- truly impressive! We loved the pre-game briefing, which highlights the history of each stadium, team and starting line-up. It's really well-executed. (On another note, we loved how the game's recreation of Shea Stadium showed the new stadium being constructed in the background -- and the announcers made some pretty insightful remarks about its progress so far.)

[cyborg ninja 14]

Millar's OPS last year is only 4 pts higher than Delgado's. However, his OBP is 32 pts higher and he drew 17 more walks and struck out 24 fewer times. He played 1 more game than Delgado (140 vs 139) and had 45 fewer plate appearances. If you put him in the Mets' lineup, I believe he'd be a greater offensive contributor than Delgado.

Again, you probably would be right in that case.

[El ASESINO]

I just read a little on 08 The Show and it doesn't sound too bad. This is one thing I'm glad they fixed.

Cool

[sinewave]

from espn.com:

Colon impressive in bullpen sessions, aims for March 15 start

Associated Press

Updated: March 5, 2008, 7:44 PM ET

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FORT MYERS, Fla. -- The Red Sox reluctance to give Bartolo Colon rave reviews keeps getting tougher.

The 2005 AL Cy Young Award winner pitched his second impressive bullpen session Wednesday and is on schedule to make his first start on March 15 since signing a minor league contract on Feb. 25.

"The expectation was there," Boston pitching coach John Farrell said after watching Colon throw 41 pitches, "but I think initially and, again, this is very premature, he's on the positive side of those expectations."

Still, the Red Sox don't want to rush him.

"While I feel ready to go, I actually believe in what John is telling me. If John says it's the 15th, then that's the day I'll be ready to go," Colon said through a translator. "I'm very anxious (to face hitters), because that's when you can really tell how far along you are."

Colon is competing for the vacancy in the rotation created by Curt Schilling's shoulder injury that's expected to keep him out for at least half the season. The other candidates are Clay Buchholz, Kyle Snyder and Julian Tavarez.

While Colon was throwing on Wednesday, Schilling stopped to watch as he was leaving the ballpark after doing his rehab work. He didn't talk with Colon but chatted with Farrell near the mound before leaving.

"Had a chance to see Bartolo throw again today and I was blown away. He looks incredible," Schilling said on his blog, 38pitches. com. "Could be a huge steal, not sure how other teams passed on him. He looked awesome."

Colon is coming back from shoulder and elbow injuries that limited him to seven wins over the past two seasons. He was the second winningest pitcher in baseball from 1998-2005.

He'll pitch another bullpen session Friday -- adding the slider to the fastball and changeup he threw in his first two workouts. Then he's scheduled to throw batting practice Monday

"There's no reason to think at this point that won't go successfully," Farrell said.

Colon would then face Cincinnati in his first game since he worked 4 2-3 innings on Feb. 6 for the Dominican Republic in the Caribbean World Series.

He had hoped to pitch on Sunday against the Los Angeles Dodgers.

"We want to be sure that we make steps in the right way rather than rushing it," Farrell said. "There's no reason to think he would have a setback, but we have some time, in the early stages of this, on our side."

After two disappointing seasons, Colon is willing to wait.

"I feel really good about how my arm strength is building up," he said. "I've had to slow myself down because I'm so happy with the way things are progressing. I have to make sure to keep it under control."

[cyborg ninja 14]

Doesn't everyone have these so called bullpen sessions that make them look awesome?

[sinewave]

is there a chance you mets fans are overreacting about delgado? his injury doesn't appear to be serious and while he had a down year last year, he had a pretty good second half of the season, percentage-wise. i don't see why he couldn't hit closer to his '06 numbers. he's in his mid-30's but he's not in bad shape or anything.

millar and murton would be pretty decent as fill-ins in left, but i don't see the tigers parting with thames. he's part of a pretty good platoon in LF with jacque jones.

the mets definitely should have kept millege. they'll regret that one for a long time.

go ahead, spidey, dazzle us with your infallible knowledge.

[sinewave]

Doesn't everyone have these so called bullpen sessions that make them look awesome?

some of them, yes. it's still encouraging. i'd rather hear good things than bad.

[cyborg ninja 14]

is there a chance you mets fans are overreacting about delgado? his injury doesn't appear to be serious and while he had a down year last year, he had a pretty good second half of the season, percentage-wise. i don't see why he couldn't hit closer to his '06 numbers. he's in his mid-30's but he's not in bad shape or anything.

millar and murton would be pretty decent as fill-ins in left, but i don't see the tigers parting with thames. he's part of a pretty good platoon in LF with jacque jones.

the mets definitely should have kept millege. they'll regret that one for a long time.

go ahead, spidey, dazzle us with your infallible knowledge.
The Pack leader is called out from the herd...:cwink:

some of them, yes. it's still encouraging. i'd rather hear good things than bad.
True

[cyborg ninja 14]

Worst Eric Byrnes article I've ever read
http://www.azcentral.com/sports/diamondbacks/articles/0306nu-ericbyrnes0306-CP.html
"you burn calories just being in the same room with him"
Mabye I've spent the last two minutes dwelling on this stupid quote, but wouldn't this be refering to the secks?:ninja::csad:

[Kingfish]

is there a chance you mets fans are overreacting about delgado? his injury doesn't appear to be serious and while he had a down year last year, he had a pretty good second half of the season, percentage-wise. i don't see why he couldn't hit closer to his '06 numbers. he's in his mid-30's but he's not in bad shape or anything.

millar and murton would be pretty decent as fill-ins in left, but i don't see the tigers parting with thames. he's part of a pretty good platoon in LF with jacque jones.

the mets definitely should have kept millege. they'll regret that one for a long time.

go ahead, spidey, dazzle us with your infallible knowledge.

seems to be a bit of an overreaction. if he's healthier, then delgado is fine.

[cyborg ninja 14]

seems to be a bit of an overreaction. if he's healthier, then delgado is fine.

sinewave is just irate.

[Spidey-Bat]

is there a chance you mets fans are overreacting about delgado?
No.

his injury doesn't appear to be serious
He's 36 and has bad wrists on top of bad hips. The Mets are experts of downplaying injuries. He needs his hips to be the type of hitter he has been. If they're "impinged", he won't be as effective.

and while he had a down year last year, he had a pretty good second half of the season, percentage-wise.
Look at the monthly breakdown. He was all over the place last year. His good 2nd half is due to a good July and Sept/Oct which was a total of 41 games. For three-quarters of the season he was awful. Also, his whole approach at the plate was just awful. He couldn't hit anything faster than 90. Anything inside, he'd swing at. He also chased a lot of breaking balls.

i don't see why he couldn't hit closer to his '06 numbers. he's in his mid-30's but he's not in bad shape or anything.
He actually is. He has bad wrists and now has bad hips. He'd be lucky to duplicate last year's numbers.

millar and murton would be pretty decent as fill-ins in left, but i don't see the tigers parting with thames. he's part of a pretty good platoon in LF with jacque jones.
They might for relievers since they have a very shaky pen still.

the mets definitely should have kept millege. they'll regret that one for a long time.
If the Mets had kept Milledge and re-signed Lo Duca, Lo Duca would still have had surgery and Alou still would have a hernia. That's 2 question marks as opposed to one now.

[cyborg ninja 14]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/d/delgaca01.shtml

[sinewave]

sinewave is just irate.

you'll pay for that remark! :cmad:

No.

of course not. you're the epitome of sensibility, so there's obviously zero chance a mets fan would overreact. what was i thinking? :whatever:


He's 36 and has bad wrists on top of bad hips. The Mets are experts of downplaying injuries. He needs his hips to be the type of hitter he has been. If they're "impinged", he won't be as effective.

he's 35, not 36. what does "impinged" entail? is that like a discomfort or is it something that requires surgery?


Look at the monthly breakdown. He was all over the place last year. His good 2nd half is due to a good July and Sept/Oct which was a total of 41 games. For three-quarters of the season he was awful. Also, his whole approach at the plate was just awful. He couldn't hit anything faster than 90. Anything inside, he'd swing at. He also chased a lot of breaking balls.


i did take a look at his numbers per month. here they are:

BA OBP SLG

april .188 .262 .260
may .273 .354 .495
june .221 .255 .462
july .323 .414 .525
aug .253 .347 .425
sep .321 .383 .566

he really only had two bad months and one mediocre one. the rest look pretty good, and they're pretty random. sure, he played less games in sept, but he crushed the ball when he did play and july was even better and he appeared healthy that whole month.

he may very well get back to his pre-'07 numbers this year. i'd say he's good for at least 450 ab's.

He actually is. He has bad wrists and now has bad hips. He'd be lucky to duplicate last year's numbers.

you know what i meant. he takes better care of himself than a lot of ballpayers at his position.

They might for relievers since they have a very shaky pen still.

who the hell do the mets have to spare in that department?

If the Mets had kept Milledge and re-signed Lo Duca, Lo Duca would still have had surgery and Alou still would have a hernia. That's 2 question marks as opposed to one now.

:huh: i don't care about lo duca, but even an injured lo duca is better than brian scheider. of course alou would still have a hernia. if they had milledge it wouldn't be as big a deal because they'd have more depth and upside. church is all right, but we've seen the best from him already.

[Spidey-Bat]

of course not. you're the epitome of sensibility, so there's obviously zero chance a mets fan would overreact. what was i thinking? :whatever:
Given the fact that he was awful last year and struggled with bad wrists, I'm sorry I'm not a delusional optimist and think he'll be able to bounce back with bad wrists and bad hips.

he's 35, not 36. what does "impinged" entail? is that like a discomfort or is it something that requires surgery?
He's 36 in June. This is his age 36 season. I have no clue what impinged means. It's likely just BS language the Mets like to throw around when they talk about injuries.

i did take a look at his numbers per month. here they are:

BA OBP SLG

april .188 .262 .260
may .273 .354 .495
june .221 .255 .462
july .323 .414 .525
aug .253 .347 .425
sep .321 .383 .566

he really only had two bad months and one mediocre one. the rest look pretty good, and they're pretty random. sure, he played less games in sept, but he crushed the ball when he did play and july was even better and he appeared healthy that whole month.

He was more than bad in April and June. He didn't "crush" the ball in Sept/Oct. His numbers are inflated from only having 60 PA's.

he may very well get back to his pre-'07 numbers this year. i'd say he's good for at least 450 ab's.
Him achieving his 06 numbers is a pretty big stretch.

who the hell do the mets have to spare in that department?
They are shopping Jorge Sosa, Scott Schoeneweis (check his home/road splits), and would likely trade Joe Smith since he's not as good as those 2 months last year.

:huh: i don't care about lo duca, but even an injured lo duca is better than brian scheider. of course alou would still have a hernia. if they had milledge it wouldn't be as big a deal because they'd have more depth and upside. church is all right, but we've seen the best from him already.
An injured Lo Duca is not better than Schneider. Lo Duca's defense quickly faded in the second half and he's been declining a lot offensively over the years. They wouldn't have more depth with Milledge. They have the same amount of depth in the OF whether they traded him or not.

[cyborg ninja 14]

you'll pay for that remark! :cmad:


Busting chops:oldrazz:

[cyborg ninja 14]

You know what will get Spidey-Bat to like Delgado again?
http://static.flickr.com/90/248319469_a15bb0b93c_o.jpg

[cyborg ninja 14]

You'll never guess who wrote this. HINT: He works for the LA Times.

"It’s the oddest sight in camp. It’s the loudest whisper in camp.

People are staring, people are talking, everybody is wondering, there’s no way around it.

Literally, no way around it. Andruw Jones looks heavy.

The newest Dodgers center fielder looks like the newest Dodgers wrestler.

He stalks up to home plate in his Dodgers whites and you’re like, this is him?"

And even the Mets get a reference!

"He has one single, one double, one RBI and a whole bunch of at-bats that looked like his three against the New York Mets on Tuesday.

In the first inning against Johan Santana, he struck out flailing.

In the third inning against Santana, he bounced weakly to shortstop.

In the sixth inning against Scott Schoeneweis, he bounced out weakly again."

[sinewave]

Given the fact that he was awful last year and struggled with bad wrists, I'm sorry I'm not a delusional optimist and think he'll be able to bounce back with bad wrists and bad hips.

are these chronic injuries? have they bothered him his whole career?


He's 36 in June. This is his age 36 season. I have no clue what impinged means. It's likely just BS language the Mets like to throw around when they talk about injuries.

semantics. "impinged" doesn't sound as bad as "torn", "sprained" or "broken".

He was more than bad in April and June. He didn't "crush" the ball in Sept/Oct. His numbers are inflated from only having 60 PA's.

a .949 OPS isn't crushing the ball? i don't care if it's 10 ABs or 100, that's still excellent.

Him achieving his 06 numbers is a pretty big stretch.

if he's out, yes, but not if he gets the same amount of at-bats. i don't think anything is wrong with his swing or approach at the plate. it's got to be this "impingement", which doesn't sound that serious.


They are shopping Jorge Sosa, Scott Schoeneweis (check his home/road splits), and would likely trade Joe Smith since he's not as good as those 2 months last year.

none of those guys look like they're worth breaking up a good platoon for.

An injured Lo Duca is not better than Schneider. Lo Duca's defense quickly faded in the second half and he's been declining a lot offensively over the years. They wouldn't have more depth with Milledge. They have the same amount of depth in the OF whether they traded him or not.

you haven't seen scheiders numbers then. :woot:

an outfield of beltran, milledge and martinez looks much better over the next 5 years than one consisting of beltran, church and martinez.

Busting chops:oldrazz:

ditto.

[Spidey-Bat]

are these chronic injuries? have they bothered him his whole career?
No. They're recent but that doesn't lessen their impact on their performance.

a .949 OPS isn't crushing the ball? i don't care if it's 10 ABs or 100, that's still excellent.
Believe me, the stats look much better than his performance. He really wasn't that good. Looking at his gamelogs, his July was inflated due to only 7 good games.

if he's out, yes, but not if he gets the same amount of at-bats. i don't think anything is wrong with his swing or approach at the plate. it's got to be this "impingement", which doesn't sound that serious.
How many Mets games did you watch?

none of those guys look like they're worth breaking up a good platoon for.
Considering the Tigers' best reliever is Yorman Bazardo, I think they'd part with a platoon guy for some relief help. It's not like they really need the offensive production from that platoon.

you haven't seen scheiders numbers then. :woot:
I have. Lo Duca's numbers compared to him aren't exceptionally better. Lo Duca is over-the-hill and not worth the defensive shortcomings, offensive decline, and off-field distractions. Mets brought Schneider in for defense anyway. Part of his offensive woes have been from being overplayed. He'll platoon with Ramon Castro with Ramon playing against tough lefties.

an outfield of beltran, milledge and martinez looks much better over the next 5 years than one consisting of beltran, church and martinez.
Church's numbers will go up since RFK is one of the worst parks for hitters. A lot of doubles in RFK are home runs in most other parks.

Another thing with Milledge is he's overrated. He's more the 2nd coming of Preston Wilson than Gary Sheffield.

[sinewave]

No. They're recent but that doesn't lessen their impact on their performance.

doesn't mean they'll keep him out for the whole year, either.


Believe me, the stats look much better than his performance. He really wasn't that good. Looking at his gamelogs, his July was inflated due to only 7 good games.

you're really stretching with this.


How many Mets games did you watch?

not this again. are you a pro scout now?


Church's numbers will go up since RFK is one of the worst parks for hitters. A lot of doubles in RFK are home runs in most other parks.

true.

Another thing with Milledge is he's overrated. He's more the 2nd coming of Preston Wilson than Gary Sheffield.

which would be a huge improvement over church, especially considering the age difference.

[Spidey-Bat]

doesn't mean they'll keep him out for the whole year, either.
They'd be better off.

you're really stretching with this.
It's not a stretch to say his performance in the month is inflated by 7 really good games,

not this again. are you a pro scout now?
Answer the question. How many Mets games did you see last year? Otherwise, you're really not one to comment on his approach at the plate.

which would be a huge improvement over church, especially considering the age difference.
It wouldn't. Wilson has never had plate discipline and always swung for the fences. Church is better than Wilson.

You seem to be arguing with me just for the sake of arguing with me. I really don't get why you're so defensive of Delgado. You don't seem like a fan of his. Otherwise you'd know his approach at the plate was awful. You also refused to answer the question of how many Mets games you saw last year. I really don't want to continue this all season long so let's put an end to this.

[cyborg ninja 14]

Another thing with Milledge is he's overrated. He's more the 2nd coming of Preston Wilson than Gary Sheffield.

You know who's the second coming of Shef? Rickie Weeks. The bat waggle wins.

[Spidey-Bat]

Milledge does the waggle, too.

[sinewave]

They'd be better off.

again, your opinion. there's nothing behind it, though, since you can't look into a crystal ball to predict how he'll perform this year.


It's not a stretch to say his performance in the month is inflated by 7 really good games,

it is because you're nitpicking. besides, he only failed to get a hit in 3 of the 13 games he got an at-bat in that month. what's not to like about that? once again, you fail.

Answer the question. How many Mets games did you see last year? Otherwise, you're really not one to comment on his approach at the plate.

that's such a ******** line of logic. how many games did you see the red sox in person last year? how do you know lowell had a good approach at the plate? maybe he sucked but things worked out in his favor anyway? what the **** does that even mean, anyway? "his approach at the plate looked lousy." were you in his head reading his thoughts about the pitches? if someone looks like they have a bad approach but they hit for a .949 OPS that month, maybe you're just not the best judge or someone's "approach". you have no ****ing basis to claim you know his approach was better because you saw it. i've heard that ******** from you before and unless you're a pro-scout, i'm not buying it. you're just some teenaged baseball geek with a huge ego who thinks he's the second coming of earl weaver, for crying out loud.

It wouldn't. Wilson has never had plate discipline and always swung for the fences. Church is better than Wilson.

you honestly think church is better than wilson was in his prime? stop drinking drano, dude. it's rotting your already feeble mind. you think church could ever put up numbers like wilson did in '01 or '03? no way his can hit 36 homers or steal 36 bases, or drive in 141 runs. you're out of you gourde if you think so.

You seem to be arguing with me just for the sake of arguing with me. I really don't get why you're so defensive of Delgado. You don't seem like a fan of his. Otherwise you'd know his approach at the plate was awful. You also refused to answer the question of how many Mets games you saw last year. I really don't want to continue this all season long so let's put an end to this.

i saw maybe two games last year. what does that have to do with anything? you'll really have to explain this approach ******** to me and how you've become an expert at it, but i assume it's all ******** like 60% of what comes out of your mouth. you've really got no room to say i'm just arguing for the sake of arguing because you do that constantly, even when people are just expressing their personal opinions you try to argue that they're wrong. so, feel free to **** off you little, ****.

[sinewave]

You know who's the second coming of Shef? Rickie Weeks. The bat waggle wins.

weeks is gonna go off this year. i drafted him in one of my leagues. his OBP should be huge.

[BlackLantern]

as a Mets fan, I was very meh about Milledge....we have SNY here and they broadcast almost every Mets game, and if its not on there the local NY station WPIX has the game....so I watched an a$$load of games last year.

[Jerry!]

Not that I wanna get in the argument, but Spidey when you said Church was better than Preston Wilson, that was, as kids call it today, a very "WTF moment" for me as well.

[Dark Donnie]

Spidey was the Thames rumor Thames for Sosa?

[Spidey-Bat]

again, your opinion. there's nothing behind it, though, since you can't look into a crystal ball to predict how he'll perform this year.
You're right. A 36-year-old 1B with poor defense and rapidly declining hitting skills helps them out a lot.

it is because you're nitpicking. besides, he only failed to get a hit in 3 of the 13 games he got an at-bat in that month. what's not to like about that? once again, you fail.
Check his RISP stats.

that's such a ******** line of logic. how many games did you see the red sox in person last year? how do you know lowell had a good approach at the plate? maybe he sucked but things worked out in his favor anyway?
I saw about 10 Red Sox games. However, I'm not criticizing Lowell's approach at the plate.

what the **** does that even mean, anyway? "his approach at the plate looked lousy." were you in his head reading his thoughts about the pitches? if someone looks like they have a bad approach but they hit for a .949 OPS that month, maybe you're just not the best judge or someone's "approach". you have no ****ing basis to claim you know his approach was better because you saw it. i've heard that ******** from you before and unless you're a pro-scout, i'm not buying it.
It didn't look lousy. It WAS lousy. He swung at bad pitches out of the strikezone, was being beaten by anything inside, and couldn't hit a fastball unless it was right in the middle. This is what I saw in him all year. Even Keith Hernandez (one of the Mets' broadcasters) commented on Delgado's poor approach all year.

you're just some teenaged baseball geek with a huge ego who thinks he's the second coming of earl weaver, for crying out loud.
I haven't personally attacked you so this is unwarranted. Please, try to be civil.

you honestly think church is better than wilson was in his prime? stop drinking drano, dude. it's rotting your already feeble mind. you think church could ever put up numbers like wilson did in '01 or '03? no way his can hit 36 homers or steal 36 bases, or drive in 141 runs. you're out of you gourde if you think so.
I was talking about now. Church is capable of reaching around 25 HRs and about 90 RBIs. He'll have more protection in the Mets' lineup and more RBI opportunities. Minaya thinks he can steal so I wouldn't be shocked if he reached double-digits in SBs.

i saw maybe two games last year. what does that have to do with anything? you'll really have to explain this approach ******** to me and how you've become an expert at it, but i assume it's all ******** like 60% of what comes out of your mouth.
If you only saw 2 games, you didn't see him all year. I watched about 50 games over the year which is a large sample size to judge a player. I'm not claiming to be an expert. I couldn't tell you if his shoulder was locked or his hips were rotating ahead of his arms, or anything like that. All I can tell you is he was swinging at a lot of bad pitches; pitches he'd take earlier in his career. And he was missing pitches he'd drive 400 feet in the past. In fact, Baseball Tonight showed a clip of him hitting against Pedro Martinez. Pedro threw him a fastball up and in which Delgado hit for a home run. I saw him swing and miss that pitch a lot over the season.

you've really got no room to say i'm just arguing for the sake of arguing because you do that constantly, even when people are just expressing their personal opinions you try to argue that they're wrong. so, feel free to **** off you little, ****.
You're taking this WAY too personally.

Spidey was the Thames rumor Thames for Sosa?

I think so. Mets were also shopping Schoeneweis so he might have been in the rumored deal, too. From what I've read though it seems like the Tigers are sticking with him and the Mets may just wait for some ST refugees.

[Immortalfire]

Mike Hampton got hurt..why am I not surprised? :dry:

[Spidey-Bat]

Noah Lowry, after walking 9 of 12 batters, is going to have surgery and will be out through April.

[Kingfish]

It's unfortunate to me that sinewave went over the line on that last arguement since it blurs the most important point he made.

you've really got no room to say i'm just arguing for the sake of arguing because you do that constantly, even when people are just expressing their personal opinions you try to argue that they're wrong.

Spidey, you do this to EVERYBODY. Doesn't matter how small it is you will argue about it, and most of the time it just seems to be for the sake of arguing about something.

one more thing.

Church is capable of reaching around 25 HRs and about 90 RBIs.

cough********cough

[Spidey-Bat]

Spidey, you do this to EVERYBODY. Doesn't matter how small it is you will argue about it, and most of the time it just seems to be for the sake of arguing about something.
I won't deny I do it but I at least having something to back my points up and am civil throughout the discussion. Sinewave's rebuttal to me saying Delgado had a poor approach is basically "How the **** do you know? You're not a pro scout."

one more thing.

cough********cough

Meant to put 80 RBIs but it's still really not out of the realm of possibility. Remember, he played in one of the worst parks for hitters. Just to clear it up, I think that's his ceiling. Maybe in a really good year he cracks 30 HR and 100 RBIs.

[Kingfish]

I won't deny I do it but I at least having something to back my points up and am civil throughout the discussion. Sinewave's rebuttal to me saying Delgado had a poor approach is basically "How the **** do you know? You're not a pro scout."

That is true. As far as I can remember you are civil about your arguements.

Meant to put 80 RBIs but it's still really not out of the realm of possibility. Remember, he played in one of the worst parks for hitters. Just to clear it up, I think that's his ceiling. Maybe in a really good year he cracks 30 HR and 100 RBIs.

Eh, maybe. Won't pretend to know a ton about Church himself, just basing my opinions of him on his career numbers, the fact that Shea is still a pitcher's park, and that he should be batting seventh or eighth.

[Immortalfire]

Calm down kids.

[sinewave]

You're right. A 36-year-old 1B with poor defense and rapidly declining hitting skills helps them out a lot.

when he's capable of the type of offense delgado is, you're damn right he is. we can't say his skills are rapidly declining yet because he's one year removed from an excellent season and he had injury problems last year and still hit very well at times. forget it, i'm never going to convince you because you're even more stubborn than me. you'd never admit to being wrong, so why bother?

Check his RISP stats.

see, now you're making sense. this line of reasoning i can understand. you don't need to pull some **** out of your ass like "i've seen him play and his approach suck." that's nonsense and you know it.

I saw about 10 Red Sox games. However, I'm not criticizing Lowell's approach at the plate.

it was an example, genius.

It didn't look lousy. It WAS lousy. He swung at bad pitches out of the strikezone, was being beaten by anything inside, and couldn't hit a fastball unless it was right in the middle. This is what I saw in him all year. Even Keith Hernandez (one of the Mets' broadcasters) commented on Delgado's poor approach all year.

i see what's going on here, you heard baseball analysts comment on his approach and you tried to claim you could tell what his approach was by watching him a few times. i knew it, you are full of ****.


I haven't personally attacked you so this is unwarranted. Please, try to be civil.

you may not have resorted to name-calling, but you've made it clear you think you're above everyone else in this thread. your arrogance is over-****ing-whelming and you need to be called on it more often, imo.

I was talking about now. Church is capable of reaching around 25 HRs and about 90 RBIs. He'll have more protection in the Mets' lineup and more RBI opportunities. Minaya thinks he can steal so I wouldn't be shocked if he reached double-digits in SBs.

ahh, this prefectly illustrates my point. you're as prone to making stupid statements like "church is better than preston wilson" as anyone else, and when we call you on it you change the rules and claim you were talking about right now, when you knew damn well we were talking about milledge's potential to turn out like wilson did, including his prime years, not now that he's washed up. face it man, as much as you think you've got some kind of superior baseball mind, you just an egotistical little, well, nevermind. i think you can fill in the rest.

If you only saw 2 games, you didn't see him all year. I watched about 50 games over the year which is a large sample size to judge a player. I'm not claiming to be an expert. I couldn't tell you if his shoulder was locked or his hips were rotating ahead of his arms, or anything like that. All I can tell you is he was swinging at a lot of bad pitches; pitches he'd take earlier in his career. And he was missing pitches he'd drive 400 feet in the past. In fact, Baseball Tonight showed a clip of him hitting against Pedro Martinez. Pedro threw him a fastball up and in which Delgado hit for a home run. I saw him swing and miss that pitch a lot over the season.

how do you know which pitches he'd take earlier in his career? are you referring to his toronto years? can you tell the difference between a curveball and a sinker when watching baseball live? i've always wondered how even former players can make out the type of pitch by watching it from a booth a few hundred feet away as it's coming in at 90+ mph. are your eyes really that good?

You're taking this WAY too personally.

what can i say, you bring out the best in me.

I won't deny I do it but I at least having something to back my points up and am civil throughout the discussion. Sinewave's rebuttal to me saying Delgado had a poor approach is basically "How the **** do you know? You're not a pro scout."

that's the thing, though, the only "evidence" you present to back up your claim is your own perception of what's happening. you don't provide actual facts, unless pressed and then you'll look at the numbers and maybe find something there. i think you think you're dealing with a bunch of toddlers here who you can wow with rhetoric like "approach". i've said this before and i'll say it again; i'll never take a fan's word when they say that someone is the best/worst/whatever because they've seen them play everyday. it's ******** becaue it's all subjective. there's no substance behind it. i could say, "that plumber is the best in the business because i've never seen him make a mistake", but if i don't have any other plumbers to compare him to, i'm not really making a very convincing case, am i?


sorry to everyone else here for getting all negative and derailing this thread. hope i'm not offending anyone, but i have a feeling i'm saying some things that a lot of others have felt at some point.

[NickSox]

I work in baseball and can tell you that announcers have spotters that tell them what the pitch is alot of the times. And you should be able to tell the difference between a slider and sinker, maybe it's just cause I was a pitcher?

[sinewave]

I work in baseball and can tell you that announcers have spotters that tell them what the pitch is alot of the times. And you should be able to tell the difference between a slider and sinker, maybe it's just cause I was a pitcher?

thanks for the input. i'd imagine you'd have to have excellent vision to be able to pick up most pitches at the pro level.

[NickSox]

thanks for the input. i'd imagine you'd have to have excellent vision to be able to pick up most pitches at the pro level.
Its hard on tv, but I work in the press box at games with a monitor next to me with a shot from an outfield camera. It helps. But yea it is tough at the MLB level. I work A ball and the pitches arent usually as tight as they should be

[Spidey-Bat]

when he's capable of the type of offense delgado is, you're damn right he is. we can't say his skills are rapidly declining yet because he's one year removed from an excellent season and he had injury problems last year and still hit very well at times. forget it, i'm never going to convince you because you're even more stubborn than me. you'd never admit to being wrong, so why bother?
His 2006 wasn't "excellent". It was very good but not excellent. It's not unfair to say his skills are declining because he's got bad wrists and hips and is going on 36 this year. Players can decline very quickly.

see, now you're making sense. this line of reasoning i can understand. you don't need to pull some **** out of your ass like "i've seen him play and his approach suck." that's nonsense and you know it.
How is it nonsense?

it was an example, genius.
One that made no sense.

i see what's going on here, you heard baseball analysts comment on his approach and you tried to claim you could tell what his approach was by watching him a few times. i knew it, you are full of ****.
So learning from a retired player, a very good one at that, break down a hitter's approach is ******** and arrogant? I also watched him more than a few times over the year.

you may not have resorted to name-calling, but you've made it clear you think you're above everyone else in this thread. your arrogance is over-****ing-whelming and you need to be called on it more often, imo.
I don't think I'm above everyone else. I might know more about certains things than others but that's not a crime except to you. To be honest, I think people are going to get very tired of you calling me out on knowing more if you continue to do it throughout the season.

ahh, this prefectly illustrates my point. you're as prone to making stupid statements like "church is better than preston wilson" as anyone else, and when we call you on it you change the rules and claim you were talking about right now, when you knew damn well we were talking about milledge's potential to turn out like wilson did, including his prime years, not now that he's washed up.
I never said Church is/will be better than Preston Wilson's prime. I said Church is better than Wilson (note the present tense). And by Milledge, I meant he'll have a short, small peak and then diminish because of poor plate discipline.

face it man, as much as you think you've got some kind of superior baseball mind, you just an egotistical little, well, nevermind. i think you can fill in the rest.
You really take this personally don't you?

how do you know which pitches he'd take earlier in his career? are you referring to his toronto years? can you tell the difference between a curveball and a sinker when watching baseball live? i've always wondered how even former players can make out the type of pitch by watching it from a booth a few hundred feet away as it's coming in at 90+ mph. are your eyes really that good?
You make it sound harder than it actually is, from TV at least. Knowing the pitcher's repertoire and the speeds of their pitches, you can tell what pitch it is most the time. I have DVR so I could play it in slow mo which helps as well. Also the broadcasters in the booth usually say what pitch it is after it.

that's the thing, though, the only "evidence" you present to back up your claim is your own perception of what's happening. you don't provide actual facts, unless pressed and then you'll look at the numbers and maybe find something there.
I could be more like you and just personally attack you. I don't have access to every plate appearance Delgado had last year to show you. You could probably find some pitcher's highlight reel and see him swing at bad pitches. However, I don't care enough to do that.

i think you think you're dealing with a bunch of toddlers here who you can wow with rhetoric like "approach".
You thought wrong. I'm not trying to impress everyone by using a word like "approach" (which isn't as complex as you make it seem). What do you want me to call it? How he swings at pitches? I don't understand why you find my using "complex" words so offensive.

i've said this before and i'll say it again; i'll never take a fan's word when they say that someone is the best/worst/whatever because they've seen them play everyday. it's ******** becaue it's all subjective. there's no substance behind it.
You haven't really provided any substance to prove me otherwise.

sorry to everyone else here for getting all negative and derailing this thread. hope i'm not offending anyone, but i have a feeling i'm saying some things that a lot of others have felt at some point.
Thank you for being a martyr for everyone. Seriously, lighten up.

[Dark Donnie]

Andy LaRoche-3B-Dodgers Mar. 7 - 7:26 pm et

Andy LaRoche will miss eight-to-ten weeks after tearing the ulnar collateral ligament in his right thumb.

The injury occured on Friday when LaRoche was hit on the hand by a throw at third base and will require surgery to correct. Nomar Garciaparra is now guaranteed to open the season at third base, assuming the Dodgers don't go crazy and trade for Brandon Inge. Tony Abreu could be the primary backup, with Ramon Martinez sticking in a utility role. Delwyn Young will also get some work in to see if he's an option at the position.
Source: Los Angeles Daily News
Related: Nomar Garciaparra, Ramon Martinez, Tony Abreu

[Spidey-Bat]

An Inge trade makes a tiny bit more sense now.

[DarthRekal]

Andy LaRoche-3B-Dodgers Mar. 7 - 7:26 pm et

Andy LaRoche will miss eight-to-ten weeks after tearing the ulnar collateral ligament in his right thumb.

The injury occured on Friday when LaRoche was hit on the hand by a throw at third base and will require surgery to correct. Nomar Garciaparra is now guaranteed to open the season at third base, assuming the Dodgers don't go crazy and trade for Brandon Inge. Tony Abreu could be the primary backup, with Ramon Martinez sticking in a utility role. Delwyn Young will also get some work in to see if he's an option at the position.
Source: Los Angeles Daily News
Related: Nomar Garciaparra, Ramon Martinez, Tony Abreu

it has begun :csad:

[Kingfish]

Even with this, if they trade for Inge they're morons. LaRoche is out 2 months and they feel the need to saddle themselves with Inge for the next 3 years? Just let Nomar hang around for the beginning of the season then slot LaRoche in when they can.

[DarthRekal]

Even with this, if they trade for Inge they're morons. LaRoche is out 2 months and they feel the need to saddle themselves with Inge for the next 3 years? Just let Nomar hang around for the beginning of the season then slot LaRoche in when they can.
Noone said the Inge trade was back on ...nor are we interested :huh:

[Kingfish]

I'm just saying if they were stupid enough to react that badly and grab Inge.