Official 2008 MLB thread

[NewYorkSpider]

why did OC get traded :(

It was a pointless trade. They will probably move Juan Uribe to second if they don't trade him.

[omid17]

It was a pointless trade. They will probably move Juan Uribe to second if they don't trade him.like i said earlier, angels pitching is great, they need better batters, they need guys who can hit a lot of home runs

[NewYorkSpider]

That's why they need to get Miguel Cabrera. The Marlins are asking for a lot in return though. If that doesn't work they may have to trade Ervin Santana and another player/prospect.

[omid17]

That's why they need to get Miguel Cabrera. The Marlins are asking for a lot in return though. If that doesn't work they may have to trade Ervin Santana and another player/prospect.im cool with that

[Spidey-Bat]

No one talked about it but Mike Lowell actually took fewer years (and probably less $$$) to stay with the Red Sox. It's nice to see someone show loyalty in what has become a business. That's a real class act. Not like Tom Glavine. I could go into a rant on him but I'll save it unless someone really cares.

[DarthRekal]

Dodger fans, I thought of a wild trade a few days ago: Juan Pierre and Russell Martin for Carlos Beltran. What do you think? It'd never happen but I want to know how crazy it seems to you guys.
ABSOLUTLEY NUTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:ninja:


NO WAY MARTIN !!!!.. not even for PAY-ROD!!!!!!!!!:cmad:



Martin IS the Dodgers... period end of story

[Dark Donnie]

Torri Hunter talking contract with the White Sox

[Dodger]

Dodger fans, I thought of a wild trade a few days ago: Juan Pierre and Russell Martin for Carlos Beltran. What do you think? It'd never happen but I want to know how crazy it seems to you guys.


LoL, no. :D your going to have to offer Nolan Ryan, Tom Seaver and Mike Piazza in his prime to get that deal done and pay for pierre and beltran's contract.
why did OC get traded :(

Rumor is that the Halo's want too offer a package with Weaver, Santana for the other Cabrera in Florida. I swear man, it's like the freaking halos heard about the dodger rumor and jumped on it! :cmad:

[omid17]

LoL, no. :D your going to have to offer Nolan Ryan, Tom Seaver and Mike Piazza in his prime to get that deal done and pay for pierre and beltran's contract.


Rumor is that the Halo's want too offer a package with Weaver, Santana for the other Cabrera in Florida. I swear man, it's like the freaking halos heard about the dodger rumor and jumped on it! :cmad:
we'll see what happens

[Dark Donnie]

Just read the Phillies were close to signing Lowell sunday night...4 yrs $50 mil.....Im happy he didn't take that.

[Dark Donnie]

:batty:

Report: Astros, Matsui close to deal

According to Tracy Ringolsby of the Rocky Mountain News, the Astros and Kaz Matsui are close to a deal.

It's been a bad month for Lance Berkman owners. The Astros are going to have Michael Bourn leading off and Matsui likely batting second most of the time. Matsui's career OBP away from Coors Field is .308. Chris Burke is easily the better bet offensively, though Matsui is clearly superior defensively. A platoon, with Matsui sitting against lefties, could be rather productive. Still, the Astros again will disappoint when it comes to getting guys on base for Berkman. Nov. 19 - 10:36 pm et


Angels | Team could be pursuing Tejada
Mon, 19 Nov 2007 19:41:26 -0800

Jeff Zrebiec, of The Baltimore Sun, reports the Los Angeles Angels may be pursuing Baltimore Orioles SS Miguel Tejada to play shortstop or third base for the team.

Bengie Molina-C-Giants Nov. 20 - 9:13 am et

According to the Rocky Mountain News, the Giants are "looking to move Bengie Molina."

Molina could be another options for teams like the Mets, Rockies and Marlins that are looking for catching help. Molina will make $6 million in each of the next two seasons.

[Dark Donnie]

More...

Ramon Hernandez-C-Orioles Nov. 20 - 9:05 am et

According to New York Newsday, "the Mets would like to trade for either Baltimore's Ramon Hernandez or Texas' Gerald Laird."

With Vorvit Torrealba no longer an option and Paul Lo Duca apparently out of the picture, the Mets reportedly will look to a trade rather than fill their catching need with a free agent like Michael Barrett or Jason Kendall. Another option is acquiring a backup while making Ramon Castro the starter, but the team reportedly wants to avoid that if possible.

Heilman no longer untouchable in trade talks
Tuesday, Nov 20, 2007 8:31 am EST

Getty Images
Aaron Heilman, long considered untouchable when it came to trade talks, appears to be the centerpiece of any deal the New York Mets will make to improve their starting rotation Newsday reported Tuesday. There is the belief around baseball that GM Omar Minaya wants to pull off a major deal.

They're going to be active," one official from an American League club predicted of the Mets. "They're going to use those guys as trade chips and try to get some pitchers back."

"Those guys" could include Heilman, pitchers Phil Humber, Kevin Mulvey, Mike Pelfrey and Joe Smith, and outfielders Carlos Gomez, Fernando Martinez and Lastings Milledge. The official called Mulvey, who recorded his first full professional season in 2007, "probably the sexiest guy" among the pitchers according to Newsday.

Source: Newsday

[cyborg ninja 14]

Or there's the completely ludicrous idea that the Mets look within to solve the problem instead of signing someone to a long term deal.

There has to be some prospects out there right? No? I guess not.

Schmidt is always an option but thats a huge IF. Loaiza can, but eh. he's a gas can. We have kids in the minors who can come up.

Schmidt's best days are probably behind him now, what are the pitching prospects like?

No one talked about it but Mike Lowell actually took fewer years (and probably less $$$) to stay with the Red Sox. It's nice to see someone show loyalty in what has become a business. That's a real class act. Not like Tom Glavine. I could go into a rant on him but I'll save it unless someone really cares.

I figured you wouldn't care if Glavine didn't come back? I thought he would retire, but he'll be fortunant to get through next season with an ERA under 5.

[cyborg ninja 14]

The NL MVP goes out today gentlemen, who will it be?

Rollins or Holliday? Perhaps Prince or Wright?

[Dark Donnie]

Between Rollins and Holliday....im saying Rollins because im a homer :up:

[NewYorkSpider]

Rollins will win it. I think it should be Holliday.

[Dark Donnie]

Report: Indians, Kobayashi close to deal

The Indians are having Masahide Kobayashi in for a physical Tuesday and could complete a deal later this week.

With Hitoki Iwase off the board, Kobayashi was the best Japanese reliever available in free agency. The long-term closer would probably help set up Joe Borowski for the Indians initially, but like Rafael Betancourt, he could prove to be superior to Borowski in time. That won't necessarily make him a candidate for saves, but he will be a sleeper. Nov. 20 - 1:08 pm et
:ninja:

[cyborg ninja 14]

Kobayashi? The guy who eats 10 times his own weight in hot dogs?:D

[Dark Donnie]

Rollins won the MVP


Rollins nabs NL MVP Award
Shortstop backed up talk this season with big performance
By Ken Mandel / MLB.com

Jimmy Rollins boldly predicted in January that the Phillies were the team to beat in the NL East. (Getty)
MLB Headlines

• Walking the walk: Rollins named NL MVP
• Tribe lands Japanese reliever Kobayashi
• Cubs' McDonough steps down as president
• Yankees name Girardi's coaching staff
• Astros sign free-agent infielder Blum
• No-brainer: A-Rod wins AL MVP Award
• White Sox swap Garland for Halos' Cabrera
• Reports: Lowell, Sox agree to three-year deal
• More MLB Headlines

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PHILADELPHIA -- Considering the amazing streaks for the teams whose uniforms they wore, the National League MVP race had to be this close.
There could be no other finish.

But Philadelphia shortstop Jimmy Rollins, all 5-foot-8 of him, stood taller than Colorado's Matt Holliday and Milwaukee's Prince Fielder, as the Baseball Writers' Association of America announced the results of its final individual award given out this season.

Rollins gives the Phillies their seventh MVP award, joining Chuck Klein (1932), Jim Konstanty (1950), Mike Schmidt (1980, 1981, 1986) and Ryan Howard (2006). With Howard, the Phillies become the first club with back-to-back MVPs since San Francisco's Jeff Kent and Barry Bonds in 2000 and 2001.

Tuesday's announcement should spark debate about which player meant more to his team.

Everything Philadelphia accomplished in 2007 focused on Rollins, starting with his January boast that the Phillies were the "team to beat" in the NL East. That disregarded the Mets, who captured the division the previous season and the Braves, who won it seemingly every year before that.

Despite taking flack after Philadelphia's 4-11 season-opening stumble, Rollins remained at the center of the Phillies' resurgence. He batted .346 (28-for-81) with six homers, 15 RBIs and 15 runs in 18 games against those Mets and started all 162 games at shortstop, playing all but 17 innings. Batting in the leadoff spot for most of the season, he kept the offense churning.

He committed just 11 errors, enough for his first Gold Glove, though his fielding percentage was second to Colorado's Troy Tulowitzki.

When closer Brett Myers hurled his glove in the air following a called strike three against Washington's Wily Mo Pena -- securing a 13-4 finish that earned the Phillies their first postseason appearance since 1993 -- Rollins' MVP credentials were cemented.

"If Jimmy doesn't win the MVP, there's something wrong with the system," left fielder Pat Burrell said on the final day of the season. "This guy, he took us on his shoulders from Day 1, and did things in this game that never happened."

The 32 voters on the NL Most Valuable Player Award committee, two from each NL city, filed ballots after the regular season, and most took the option of waiting until Rockies' one-game playoff win over the Padres. Each writer could list a top 10 in order. Players were awarded 10 points for a first-place vote, nine points for a second-place vote, etc.

Rollins became the first player in history to collect at least 200 hits, 25 homers, 15 triples and 25 steals in a season. Overall, the switch-hitter batted .296, with 38 doubles, 20 triples, 30 homers, 94 RBIs, 41 stolen bases, 212 hits and 139 runs scored.

The 139 runs scored and 88 extra-base hits were league records for a shortstop. He also set a Major League record with 716 at-bats, and became the third shortstop in history to have at least 30 homers and 30 stolen bases in a season, after Barry Larkin in 1996 and Alex Rodriguez in 1998.

Holliday, meanwhile, captured the league's batting and RBI titles, and led the Rockies into the postseason for the first time since 1995. The left fielder was the focal point of the team's 15-1 run to get there, batting .442 with five homers and 17 RBIs.

Overall, he batted .340, with 50 doubles, 36 homers, 137 RBIs, 216 hits and 120 runs scored. He also led the league in hits, total bases, doubles and extra-base hits.

The statistics only told part of the story. The voters went with the player who backed up a bold prediction. On a team with Howard and Chase Utley, who himself had an MVP campaign despite missing five weeks with a broken hand, Rollins simply was the team's most valuable.

Now, he has the hardware.

"He's the MVP of the National League," manager Charlie Manuel said often in September. "He sets the tone on offense and defense. He plays every day. I've never seen so many hard-hit balls in my life, and he turns them into double plays. He's the guy that got us going ... all year."

[sinewave]

I figured you wouldn't care if Glavine didn't come back? I thought he would retire, but he'll be fortunant to get through next season with an ERA under 5.

hi, my name is sinewave and i approve of this message. :up:

Rollins won the MVP

i figured it'd be him or wright. congrats phillies fans!

[Spidey-Bat]

Congratulations to Jimmy Rollins for getting away with robbery for a 3rd time and becoming the most overrated player in baseball.

[cyborg ninja 14]

hi, my name is sinewave and i approve of this message. :up:

Hell yes:yay:

i figured it'd be him or wright. congrats phillies fans!

Congratulations to Jimmy Rollins for getting away with robbery for a 3rd time and becoming the most overrated player in baseball.

Exactly what were the first two times?

[sinewave]

Congratulations to Jimmy Rollins for getting away with robbery for a 3rd time and becoming the most overrated player in baseball.

overly dramatic and biased much? he might be overrated, but he's nowhere near being the most overrated player. utley would have won it if he had played the full season.


the gold glove must have been the first one, what's the second?

[Spidey-Bat]

There has to be some prospects out there right? No? I guess not.
The Mets? They have a kid Ruben Gotay. His fielding is poor but he can hit well (left-handed at least). I would use a platoon of him and Damion Easley and then bank on Hudson walking.


I figured you wouldn't care if Glavine didn't come back? I thought he would retire, but he'll be fortunant to get through next season with an ERA under 5.
I'd care if he came back but not in a good way. He needed to go and the Mets needed to cut their ties with him. It's hard to want him back after he said he was only disappointed in his horrible starts the last 3 weeks of the season, he wanted to win his 300th game in a Braves uniform, and he wanted to call Bobby Cox after winning his 300th game. He did nothing for them his tenure here, no one will miss him.

I wonder if he'll pull a Roger Clemens and never pitch against the Mets in NY.

overly dramatic and biased much? he might be overrated, but he's nowhere near being the most overrated player. utley would have won it if he had played the full season.
He's the most overrated after this off-season. He's not the best defensive SS in the league (Troy Tulowitzki and Omar Vizquel were better). He's not even the best offensive SS in his division (Hanley Ramirez). Neither award should be given to him because he's only slightly above average. He's not the MVP of the league (Wright had a much better season and more win shares). He's not even the MVP of his team. Even when Utley was out, his production was replaced by guys like Greg Dobbs, Jayson Werth, and Pat Burrell.

the gold glove must have been the first one, what's the second?
Silver Slugger

Here are some interesting facts:
His 118 OPS+ is the lowest for an MVP in either league since 1965.
His OBP is the lowest for an MVP since Andrew Dawson in 1987.
He ranked 9th in VORP in the NL.

[Dark Donnie]

Congratulations to Jimmy Rollins for getting away with robbery for a 3rd time and becoming the most overrated player in baseball.

:down: come on he deserved it as much as Holliday...it could have gone either way

[Dark Donnie]

Taken right from the article above:
Rollins became the first player in history to collect at least 200 hits, 25 homers, 15 triples and 25 steals in a season. Overall, the switch-hitter batted .296, with 38 doubles, 20 triples, 30 homers, 94 RBIs, 41 stolen bases, 212 hits and 139 runs scored.

The 139 runs scored and 88 extra-base hits were league records for a shortstop. He also set a Major League record with 716 at-bats, and became the third shortstop in history to have at least 30 homers and 30 stolen bases in a season, after Barry Larkin in 1996 and Alex Rodriguez in 1998.

[sinewave]

He's the most overrated after this off-season. He's not the best defensive SS in the league (Troy Tulowitzki and Omar Vizquel were better). He's not even the best offensive SS in his division (Hanley Ramirez). Neither award should be given to him because he's only slightly above average. He's not the MVP of the league (Wright had a much better season and more win shares). He's not even the MVP of his team. Even when Utley was out, his production was replaced by guys like Greg Dobbs, Jayson Werth, and Pat Burrell.


Silver Slugger

Here are some interesting facts:
His 118 OPS+ is the lowest for an MVP in either league since 1965.
His OBP is the lowest for an MVP since Andrew Dawson in 1987.
He ranked 9th in VORP in the NL.

i agree that he's not the best choice for any of the awards he received this season, but i still think he's a better player than you give him credit for. i have a feeling that if he played in any of the other divisions in the NL you'd be singing a different tune.

[Dark Donnie]

I still look at it like he stole 40 bases, hit 30 hrs, batted about 300, scored about 140 runs, played a gold glove short, and played in 162 games....thats pretty damn impressive if you ask me.

[sinewave]

I still look at it like he stole 40 bases, hit 30 hrs, batted about 300, scored about 140 runs, played a gold glove short, and played in 162 games....thats pretty damn impressive if you ask me.

agreed.

[Jerry!]

Yeah it'd be hard not to give it to him. I can't remember what it was but I think he had the most stolen bases, triples, runs and something else since 1900 something. So congrats to Rollins, he earned it. Congrats to Spidey Bat as well for continuing to live up to his reputation, he has also earned it. The tears of a clown never fail to amuse me.

[Spidey-Bat]

I still look at it like he stole 40 bases, hit 30 hrs, batted about 300, scored about 140 runs, played a gold glove short, and played in 162 games....thats pretty damn impressive if you ask me.

He batted .296. He had over 700 AB's which makes it a big difference from 300.

He didn't play GG defense. Above average defense but not GG. Vizquel and Tulowitzki were more deserving of the GG.

Yeah it'd be hard not to give it to him. I can't remember what it was but I think he had the most stolen bases, triples, runs and something else since 1900 something. So congrats to Rollins, he earned it. Congrats to Spidey Bat as well for continuing to live up to his reputation, he has also earned it. The tears of a clown never fail to amuse me.

Runs (as well as RBIs) are a useless stat in judging a player's individual performance.

Rollins only won because of 3 reasons:
1) The Mets collapsed
2) The Phillies overachieved
3) You had idiots like John Kruk and Eric Young deep throating him every night on Baseball Tonight.

If you really believe Rollins was the NL MVP, you're delusional.

[sinewave]

He batted .296. He had over 700 AB's which makes it a big difference from 300.

He didn't play GG defense. Above average defense but not GG. Vizquel and Tulowitzki were more deserving of the GG.



Runs (as well as RBIs) are a useless stat in judging a player's individual performance.

Rollins only won because of 3 reasons:
1) The Mets collapsed
2) The Phillies overachieved
3) You had idiots like John Kruk and Eric Young deep throating him every night on Baseball Tonight.

what's the difference between hitting .296 and hitting .300 in 700 at-bats? 5 hits? that seems trivial.

runs are a bit more important than RBI's, especially with someone like rollins who utilized his speed and baserunning to score, though having great sluggers like utley and howard behind him helps.

[War Party]

Yeah Jimmy!!!!!!!!!

[Spidey-Bat]

runs are a bit more important than RBI's, especially with someone like rollins who utilized his speed and baserunning to score, though having great sluggers like utley and howard behind him helps.

No, runs are useless. Even if he steals bases, he relies on the guys behind him to get him in. It's not fair for him when he has Howard and Utley while Hanley Ramirez only has Miguel Cabrera.

[sinewave]

No, runs are useless. Even if he steals bases, he relies on the guys behind him to get him in. It's not fair for him when he has Howard and Utley while Hanley Ramirez only has Miguel Cabrera.

players like rollins and reyes don't necessarily need big sluggers hitting behind them to score runs, though. they can score from second on a groundball up the middle, some times even from first, and they can get themselves into scoring position where a sac fly can score them, so i think you're undervaluing runs a bit, but i can see where you're coming from. i think when you're talking about speedy guys like that, their percentage stats still count more, but scoring runs is basically their prime objective being the table-setters, so runs do factor in pretty heavily.

[Eddie Brock]

Rollins > Spidey-Bat.

How many MVP's, Silver Sluggers and Gold Gloves do you have again? Exactly. :o

Back-to-back Phillies MVP's! :woot:

[Spidey-Bat]

players like rollins and reyes don't necessarily need big sluggers hitting behind them to score runs, though. they can score from second on a groundball up the middle, some times even from first, and they can get themselves into scoring position where a sac fly can score them, so i think you're undervaluing runs a bit, but i can see where you're coming from. i think when you're talking about speedy guys like that, their percentage stats still count more, but scoring runs is basically their prime objective being the table-setters, so runs do factor in pretty heavily.

They still need good hitters behind them to score unless they steal home (which happens about once a season in all of baseball). Rollins is far more likely to score more runs than Hanley Ramirez (who is a far superior hitter) because Rollins has Utley, Howard, Rowand, you can even count Pat Burrell when he's hitting. All Ramirez has is Miguel Cabrera. The other scrubs in that lineup can get hits to score him but they'll never come close to the productiveness of the guys hitting behind Rollins.

Face it, runs suck when judging a player's individual performance. Quit watching ESPN.

Rollins > Spidey-Bat.

How many MVP's, Silver Sluggers and Gold Gloves do you have again? Exactly. :o

Back-to-back Phillies MVP's! :woot:

All you do is prove me more right. You can't even come up with a substantial argument to prove me wrong.

[Kingfish]

so who is deserving of mvp, spidey-bat? holliday? wright?

personally i'd say holliday was better, but there is a definate arguement for rollins. it sure as hell wasn't hanley.

[sinewave]

They still need good hitters behind them to score unless they steal home (which happens about once a season in all of baseball). Rollins is far more likely to score more runs than Hanley Ramirez (who is a far superior hitter) because Rollins has Utley, Howard, Rowand, you can even count Pat Burrell when he's hitting. All Ramirez has is Miguel Cabrera. The other scrubs in that lineup can get hits to score him but they'll never come close to the productiveness of the guys hitting behind Rollins.

Face it, runs suck when judging a player's individual performance. Quit watching ESPN.

you crack me up, dude. you're one of the more knowledgeable people here when it comes to baseball, but man are you stubborn and closed-minded. oh well, good luck with that.

[Jerry!]

All you do is prove me more right. You can't even come up with a substantial argument to prove me wrong.

Because its really not worth it when it comes to arguing with you, especially on this topic. Everyone has presented their arguments in the past anyways, and if that didn't convince you, nothing anyone will post now will. So just keep thinking Wright got jobbed and drop it.

[Spidey-Bat]

so who is deserving of mvp, spidey-bat? holliday? wright?

personally i'd say holliday was better, but there is a definate arguement for rollins. it sure as hell wasn't hanley.

It was Holliday. Wright should have gotten some 1st place votes.

I only used Hanley as an example to prove that runs are meaningless in judging a player's individual performance.

Because its really not worth it when it comes to arguing with you, especially on this topic. Everyone has presented their arguments in the past anyways, and if that didn't convince you, nothing anyone will post now will. So just keep thinking Wright got jobbed and drop it.
What they posted just isn't persuasive enough for me to think that Rollins is the MVP of the league. He's definitely a candidate but the Phillies still would have made the playoffs without him because the Mets gagged.

BTW, I don't think Wright got robbed. I would have like to see him win it (no Met has), but Holliday deserved it more. And there's nothing to talk about now in baseball. Unless you really want to discuss the pathetic free agents out there. The potential trades are more intriguing but we're in the dark on them until they're announced.

you crack me up, dude. you're one of the more knowledgeable people here when it comes to baseball, but man are you stubborn and closed-minded. oh well, good luck with that.
I'm not stubborn or close-minded. I can see beyond all the hype Rollins got from ESPN and know he wasn't the MVP of the league. I'm sure none of you care, but on another message board I go to has a lot of very knowledgeable fans. Not one has agreed with Rollins as the MVP.

Even Rob Neyer from ESPN disagress with it.
http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3120634&name=Neyer_Rob&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fesp n%2fblog%2findex%3fentryID%3d3120634%26name%3dNeye r_Rob

He says it should be Wright. I think you can make a case for him but I think Holliday should have been the MVP.

[Jerry!]

It was Holliday. Wright should have gotten some 1st place votes.

I only used Hanley as an example to prove that runs are meaningless in judging a player's individual performance.


What they posted just isn't persuasive enough for me to think that Rollins is the MVP of the league. He's definitely a candidate but the Phillies still would have made the playoffs without him because the Mets gagged.

BTW, I don't think Wright got robbed. I would have like to see him win it (no Met has), but Holliday deserved it more. And there's nothing to talk about now in baseball. Unless you really want to discuss the pathetic free agents out there. The potential trades are more intriguing but we're in the dark on them until they're announced.


I'm not stubborn or close-minded. I can see beyond all the hype Rollins got from ESPN and know he wasn't the MVP of the league. I'm sure none of you care, but on another message board I go to has a lot of very knowledgeable fans. Not one has agreed with Rollins as the MVP.

Even Rob Neyer from ESPN disagress with it.
http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3120634&name=Neyer_Rob&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fesp n%2fblog%2findex%3fentryID%3d3120634%26name%3dNeye r_Rob

He says it should be Wright. I think you can make a case for him but I think Holliday should have been the MVP.

Dude then just drop it. No one here agrees with you on this (at least I didn't see anyone) and you aren't changing their minds and we definitely aren't changing your mind on anything. So to keep it from going in circles, just drop it. And to help ween you off the topic the Mets just traded Mota to the Brewers for catcher Joey Estrada. Rant on that for a while.

And the White Sox just released Scott Podsednik. Even though he was always hurt the majority of his time playing besides his first year with Chicago, he will never be forgotten here.

[Spidey-Bat]

Dude then just drop it. No one here agrees with you on this (at least I didn't see anyone) and you aren't changing their minds and we definitely aren't changing your mind on anything. So to keep it from going in circles, just drop it.
If you don't want to be a part of the discussion, then don't. Don't be an ******* and expect me to obey your wishes.

And to help ween you off the topic the Mets just traded Mota to the Brewers for catcher Joey Estrada. Rant on that for a while.
You kidding? Getting rid of Guillermo Mota is great news.

[Kingfish]

see i agree with spidey-bat on this one (had to happen some time). rollins was a candidate, but holliday deserved it more. wright deserved it more. if hanley could play even decent defense, he would have deserved it more.

[Jerry!]

Yeah just saw that, kind of feel bad, kind of don't. Kinda like how I will feel if/when Crede gets traded or is let go.

[Kingfish]

he was pretty useless to them now.

[sinewave]

i really don't get why holliday is getting so much support here. yeah, he had a great year, but 1) his home/road splits were vastly different and 2) he's a sub-par defender at a non-crucial position. my top five would be:

1) wright
2) utley
3) h. ramirez
4) rollins
5) holliday/fielder/pujols

holliday just seems completely overrated to me. even more so than rollins.

[Jerry!]

he was pretty useless to them now.

Yeah I know, thats why I said part of me doesn't feel bad about losing him. Same goes for Crede.

[Spidey-Bat]

i really don't get why holliday is getting so much support here. yeah, he had a great year, but 1) his home/road splits were vastly different and 2) he's a sub-par defender at a non-crucial position. my top five would be:

1) wright
2) utley
3) h. ramirez
4) rollins
5) holliday/fielder/pujols

holliday just seems completely overrated to me. even more so than rollins.

You knock Holliday for being a sub-par defender but have Hanley Ramirez over him?

[sinewave]

You knock Holliday for being a sub-par defender but have Hanley Ramirez over him?

i said holliday's a sub-par fielder at a non-crucial defensive position, which is a lot different than being a sub-par fielder at a skill position like SS. hanley's a lousy SS, no doubt, but SS is a hell of a lot tougher to play than LF and he's obviously more athletic than holliday. ramirez could probably be an average-to-good fielder at any of the OF spots.

[Dark Donnie]

Spidey Bat...even your boy Rosenthal just said Rollins deserved it and he would have voted for Rollins. He said "Rollins played the tougher position, had the intangilbles, and leadership...it was a pretty clear choice." He said "Holliday would have had a better chance winning the award if it was Player of the Year, but its not it's Most Valuable"

[DarthRekal]

Holliday.... Robbed:csad:

[Spidey-Bat]

Spidey Bat...even your boy Rosenthal just said Rollins deserved it and he would have voted for Rollins. He said "Rollins played the tougher position, had the intangilbles, and leadership...it was a pretty clear choice." He said "Holliday would have had a better chance winning the award if it was Player of the Year, but its not it's Most Valuable"

Rosenthal only has good sources for rumors. His opinions aren't as good.

Going by tougher position, nothing is harder than catcher. Therefore, Russell Martin should have won. He played 151 games at catcher and put up incredibly good numbers for a 24 year old sophomore catcher.

Intangibles are bull****. As Sandy Koufax said "In the end it all comes down to talent. You can talk all you want about intangibles, I just don't know what that means. Talent makes winners, not intangibles."

Leadership? I'm sure Holliday was as much a leader as Rollins. In fact, Wright was probably more of a leader than either of them.

[Dark Donnie]

So if it comes down to talent do you think Holliday has a better chance then Rollins to win it next year?

[Spidey-Bat]

Depends on the type of season he has. I think he's more likely to repeat his numbers from this year than Rollins is.

[NewYorkSpider]

I still think Holliday should have won the MVP. He beat Rollins in NL AVG, HR and RBI. Plus, he was better on the road. He led in doubles, extra base hits and total bases which pretty much means Rollins was behind him in almost every offensive category.

[Spidey-Bat]

Rollins isn't even the best hitter on his team (Utley) or division (Cabrera, Ramirez, Wright).

[fu manchu]

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20071120/capt.7f255aedf45a46d191d8b054660c9721.nl_mvp_rolli ns_phillies_baseball_la109.jpg

must have been hot outside. :huh:

[Spidey-Bat]

Someone didn't use deodorant.

[Dark Donnie]

photoshopped:dry:

[cyborg ninja 14]

The Mets? They have a kid Ruben Gotay. His fielding is poor but he can hit well (left-handed at least). I would use a platoon of him and Damion Easley and then bank on Hudson walking.

I'd care if he came back but not in a good way. He needed to go and the Mets needed to cut their ties with him. It's hard to want him back after he said he was only disappointed in his horrible starts the last 3 weeks of the season, he wanted to win his 300th game in a Braves uniform, and he wanted to call Bobby Cox after winning his 300th game. He did nothing for them his tenure here, no one will miss him.

I wonder if he'll pull a Roger Clemens and never pitch against the Mets in NY.

Here are some interesting facts:
His 118 OPS+ is the lowest for an MVP in either league since 1965.
His OBP is the lowest for an MVP since Andrew Dawson in 1987.
He ranked 9th in VORP in the NL.

Interesting point about Glavine, the Clemens comparisons are a bit of a stretch, Glavine seems like a more likeable guy than Roger.

Nice stats on Rollins, he really wasn't deserving of the MVP over Holliday and Wright.

[Spidey-Bat]

Interesting point about Glavine, the Clemens comparisons are a bit of a stretch, Glavine seems like a more likeable guy than Roger.

I'm not really comparing them. Clemens has always avoided pitching against the Mets at Shea Stadium his whole career (The Mets have historically killed him). I wonder if Glavine will avoid starting in Shea Stadium like Clemens. People would go to that game just to boo him.

[cyborg ninja 14]

I'm not really comparing them. Clemens has always avoided pitching against the Mets at Shea Stadium his whole career (The Mets have historically killed him). I wonder if Glavine will avoid starting in Shea Stadium like Clemens. People would go to that game just to boo him.

Was that bat tossing incident with Piazza at Shea or Yankee stadium?

[cyborg ninja 14]

Any Brewers or Mets fans with opinions about the Estrada/Mota trade? The Mets get a guy who couldn't get along with anyone in AZ or MIL and is now expected to attempt to do the same in New York. Wow, this doesn't bode well. The Brewers getting a formerly suspended user who also isn't that good in Mota, which is a pretty low level to stoop just to dump your catcher. Brewers would've been better off Estrada go instead of this trade.

[Spidey-Bat]

Was that bat tossing incident with Piazza at Shea or Yankee stadium?

It was at Yankee Stadium in the World Series. Clemens didn't start against the Mets until 2003, and they didn't even bean him then. Clemens history with them goes back long ago. In '83 I think it was, he was trying out for them (Torre was the manager and the Bob Gibson was the pitching coach) and started to sweat profusely. Then in Game 6 of the '86 World Series he left early, no one knows why exactly. He has the highest ERA against the Mets than any other team (It's above 5. The 2nd highest is against the Phillies which is a mid-4).

Any Brewers or Mets fans with opinions about the Estrada/Mota trade? The Mets get a guy who couldn't get along with anyone in AZ or MIL and is now expected to attempt to do the same in New York. Wow, this doesn't bode well. The Brewers getting a formerly suspended user who also isn't that good in Mota, which is a pretty low level to stoop just to dump your catcher. Brewers would've been better off Estrada go instead of this trade.
Mota had some interest from the Giants as well. Teams like him because he has good stuff. As my friend put it: Mota has a million dollar arm, but a 10 cent head. The Brewers need any arms they can get since Cordero and Linebrink are FA's. Mets need some option as a catcher. They can cut Estrada at any point and not pay a dime. This also helps them in getting a more desirable catcher (like Ramon Hernandez) for a cheaper price. The main reason they got Estrada was b/c it would only cost Mota. They're saving their trading chips for Johan Santana.

[NewYorkSpider]

Torii Hunter signs with Angels. (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3123200)

This deal happened very fast. I usually will hear about it on a site I go to, but they have nothing yet. Very good signing for the Halos.

[Dark Donnie]

Torii Hunter signs with Angels. (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3123200)

This deal happened very fast. I usually will hear about it on a site I go to, but they have nothing yet. Very good signing for the Halos.



Linebrink signs with The Whitesox

Jason Kendall to The Brewers

[Dark Donnie]

Report: Santana asks for $126 million

According to the Minneapolis Star Tribune, after receiving a five-year, $93 million offer from the Twins, Johan Santana made a counter-offer for $126 million.

If true, then he's being very reasonable about his demands given that Barry Zito signed for $126 million last offseason. Santana figures to command over $150 million on the open market and could conceivably get closer to $200 million if he pitches well in 2008. The news is seemingly positive in regard to the Twins' chances of re-signing him, but the newspaper also reports that "other teams have found he is no longer off limits in trade discussions." Nov. 22 - 9:44 am et
Source: Minneapolis Star-Tribune

:yay:

The Other deals

Angels, Hunter agree to five-year deal

Angels agreed to terms with outfielder Torii Hunter on a five-year, $90 million contract.

The Rangers and White Sox appeared to be the front-runners for Hunter and the Angels seemed set at the position with Gary Matthews Jr. and Reggie Willits, but instead hand out a big contract to a free-agent center fielder for the second straight offseason. Hunter's agent said Wednesday that "it all happened within the last 24 hours" and the signing comes after Hunter said earlier this week that he wouldn't make a decision until after Thanksgiving. A seven-time Gold Glover who batted .287 with 28 homers and 107 RBI in 2007, Hunter could see plenty of RBI chances if he's asked to hit behind Vladimir Guerrero. The signing figures to push Matthews to a corner spot, with either Guerrero or Garret Anderson sliding to designated hitter and Willits going to the bench, but the Angels could look to trade some of their outfield depth for a shortstop. Nov. 22 - 2:21 am et

[Spidey-Bat]

Hunter deal doesn't make sense since the Angels signed Matthews last year (which was a bad deal). Linebrink's signing is awful.

As for Santana, his desire for that contract will shy away some teams from going after him.

[Dark Donnie]

Hunter deal doesn't make sense since the Angels signed Matthews last year (which was a bad deal). Linebrink's signing is awful.

As for Santana, his desire for that contract will shy away some teams from going after him.

Matthews info
Gary Matthews Jr.-OF-Angels Nov. 22 - 9:29 am et

Following the signing of Torii Hunter, manager Mike Scioscia said Thursday that Gary Matthews Jr. "would rotate through the corner outfield spots" after playing center field in 2007.

Scioscia added that Vladimir Guerrero and Garret Anderson "would rotate through the designated hitter spot," which would leave Juan Rivera, Kendry Morales and Reggie Willits without places to play. Given their sudden pitching and outfield depth, the Angels' busy offseason could just be getting started.

[Jerry!]

Hunter deal doesn't make sense since the Angels signed Matthews last year (which was a bad deal). Linebrink's signing is awful.

As for Santana, his desire for that contract will shy away some teams from going after him.

I'll take a shot with Linebrink over ANY of the guys the White Sox have had in the bullpen since 2005 other than Jenks. They have been beyond horrible. Its a nightmare. Linebrink can't be worse.

[Dark Donnie]

It's being reported that the signing of Hunter, is a precursor for the Angels to go get Johan.

[Dodger]

The Hunter deal is horrible. 5 yrs 80 million? I'm glad they got him. But I think all these moves are leading to the Angels landing Cabrera.

[Spidey-Bat]

It's being reported that the signing of Hunter, is a precursor for the Angels to go get Johan.

Where's this? If anything it's more a sign of them getting Miguel Cabrera or possibly even Miguel Tejada. They have surplus OF's now and still have a lot of middle infield prospects they can deal.

[Dark Donnie]

Where's this? If anything it's more a sign of them getting Miguel Cabrera or possibly even Miguel Tejada. They have surplus OF's now and still have a lot of middle infield prospects they can deal.

I saw it on Rotoworld I think.

[Spidey-Bat]

Rotoworld gets their stuff from newspapers across the country.

[cyborg ninja 14]

The Linebrink signing seemed harmless until I saw the 4 year/$19 million pricetag. Christ, can anyone tell Kenny Williams that he'll be overpaying this guy when there will be many other better relievers that'll be making substancially less?

The Torii Hunter deal also is kinda odd considering that the Angels are supposedly in play for Cabrera and Johan. Anyone know the salary cap out there in LAA?

[Spidey-Bat]

I'll take a shot with Linebrink over ANY of the guys the White Sox have had in the bullpen since 2005 other than Jenks. They have been beyond horrible. Its a nightmare. Linebrink can't be worse.

In 4 years they'll be right back where they are.

[cyborg ninja 14]

In 4 years they'll be right back where they are.

Mabye worse?

[omid17]

Torii Hunter signs with Angels. (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3123200)

This deal happened very fast. I usually will hear about it on a site I go to, but they have nothing yet. Very good signing for the Halos.:up::up: awesome news

[Jerry!]

In 4 years they'll be right back where they are.

I don't buy that. Who the hell thought they would win anything in 2005? I wasn't expecting anything. They were pegged for 4th place by pretty much everyone that year. Anything can happen any year.

[Spidey-Bat]

With the exception of closers and most set up men, relievers are hit or miss every year. Linebrink is in a decline and the last place switching to the AL and a hitter's park won't do well for him. Expect him to put up an ERA near the 5's.

The White Sox won't be making noise for a few years. On top of a nightmare bullpen, their starting pitching is weak (that's what won them a WS), their OF is a mess, and their infield is no better.

[Jerry!]

Infield is better with Cabrera. Thats an automatic upgrade over pretty much whoever else the White Sox have or had at SS or 2B last season at any time. Outfield I was hoping for Hunter, but now that won't happen maybe they can get Rowand back. Like I said, I'm not expecting them to really do anything next season unless they make some major move, but sometimes things just click. Cliff Politte and Neal Cotts came out of nowhere in 2005 to have career years as relievers, since then they have been ****. I'd take a chance with Linebrink over any of the guys I've seen in the White Sox farm system, all of them, not a single one of them seems ready. Bukvich did show some signs of something, but there really isn't much at all. So I welcome Linebrink, any good he can bring will be better than what the White Sox already have in the bullpen besides Jenks.

[Kingfish]

while somewhat thrilled about the torii hunter signing, i have to question why the angels would feel the need to add a sixth outfielder when they have no clear shortshop and a utility guy playing third.

therefore, i have to think a deal for tejada or cabrera is on the horizon. but johan? ridiculous. someone just threw their name in there because they've been one of the most active teams right now. the angels will be mentioned for alot of big trades and fa's now.

[Spidey-Bat]

Angels have so many middle IF prospects to plug the holes at 3B and SS. However, it's likely they'll at least go after Miguel Tejada and/or Miguel Cabrera.

Pretty much any big market team is being connected to Johan Santana. Teams like the Angels, Dodgers, and Red Sox really have no great need for starting pitching (especially of that caliber). The Yankees' reluctance to deal any of their young pitchers may keep them out of it. Unless they can somehow convince the Twins Shelly Duncan isn't a career minor leaguer and Melky Cabrera is more than a 4th OF.

[Jerry!]

Joe Kennedy.. HE GONE! Mercy!

[sinewave]

i'm not sure if the angels would want to sign cabrera now. he's a fat, lousy defender at 3B so they'd be better off moving him to 1B, DH or a corner OF spot, but those are all taken, unless they unload a lot of guys. is brandon wood ever going to turn into the stud they projected him to be? i thought he was their 3B of the future.

[sinewave]

Joe Kennedy.. HE GONE! Mercy!

wow, i'm not sure what's more tasteless, the fact that you're joking about it or the fact that you quoted the most annoying color man in pro sports to make the joke. :down

[Dark Donnie]

Spidey, have you heard anything about the Mets possibly signing Andrew Jones?

[omid17]

angels have 2 great outfielders now, sick

[Jerry!]

wow, i'm not sure what's more tasteless, the fact that you're joking about it or the fact that you quoted the most annoying color man in pro sports to make the joke. :down

First of all, who said I was joking or that it was a joke? Its just another way of saying he's dead. Second of all, he is actually the play by play guy, not color man.

[Spidey-Bat]

i'm not sure if the angels would want to sign cabrera now. he's a fat, lousy defender at 3B so they'd be better off moving him to 1B, DH or a corner OF spot, but those are all taken, unless they unload a lot of guys. is brandon wood ever going to turn into the stud they projected him to be? i thought he was their 3B of the future.

Cabrera has said he is working out more in the offseason to lose weight. Angels might trade Kotchman or whoever is at 1B to the Marlins in the deal. Mike Jacobs is awful.

First of all, who said I was joking or that it was a joke? Its just another way of saying he's dead.

No one says "HE GONE!" when someone dies. It's incredibly insensitive and classless. If you don't think so, go to a funeral and say that.

Spidey, have you heard anything about the Mets possibly signing Andrew Jones?

They talked about it. The only way it would happen is if they had to trade both Carlos Gomez and Lastings Milledge. I wouldn't want to see it done. Not only do I dislike Andruw Jones, but the last time the Mets had 2 CF it didn't work out very well. They'll probably settle for a FA OF. Maybe even re-sign Shawn Green.

[sinewave]

First of all, who said I was joking or that it was a joke? Its just another way of saying he's dead. Second of all, he is actually the play by play guy, not color man.

yeah, it's totally appropriate to use a shallow, annoying catch phrase to announce an untimely death. :whatever:

i guess i shouldn't expect much from a "hawk" harrelson fan.

[sinewave]

Cabrera has said he is working out more in the offseason to lose weight. Angels might trade Kotchman or whoever is at 1B to the Marlins in the deal. Mike Jacobs is awful.

i hope he does slim down, but i won't believe it until i see him in spring training. including kotchman in the trade would be a good idea, though. cabrera's probably not as good defensively at 1B, but he shouldn't be too bad if he lays off the burritos.

No one says "HE GONE!" when someone dies. It's incredibly insensitive and classless. If you don't think so, go to a funeral and say that.

exactly.

[Dark Donnie]

Santana Watch

Twins' Santana wants six-year extension

According to the Star Tribune's Joe Christensen, the five-year, $93 million contract the Twins offered to Johan Santana would have replaced his existing deal.

That's where the confusion was. Santana is due to make $13.25 million next season in the final year of his contract. The Twins' proposal would have signed him through 2012, essentially resulting in a four-year, $80 million extension. Christensen reports that Santana wants a six-year extension, and since the Twins aren't willing to go that far, both sides have agreed that trade offers will be considered. Nov. 23 - 3:23 pm et

[Spidey-Bat]

Earlier in the day this was the story. Also from the Star Tribune

The Twins have begun listening to trade talks involving Johan Santana after exchanging recent contract proposals with the two-time Cy Young Award winner and blinking at his asking price.

According to people familiar with the discussions, the Twins made Santana a five-year, $93 million offer this month, and Santana's camp countered with a request for about $126 million.

[Jerry!]

yeah, it's totally appropriate to use a shallow, annoying catch phrase to announce an untimely death. :whatever:

i guess i shouldn't expect much from a "hawk" harrelson fan.

It isn't like I'm happy he died. Its just an expression calm down. Its not like I'm at the guy's funeral saying that, its a freaking internet message board.

[Spidey-Bat]

It's an expression used when someone strikes out, not when someone dies. It doesn't matter where you say it either. The fact that you said something so insensitive and tasteless in regards to something like death is horrible.

[Dark Donnie]

Report: Reds, Cordero agree at $46 million

The Reds and Francisco Cordero have come to terms on a four-year, $46 million contract with an option for a fifth year, FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal reports.

If Rosenthal is correct, then $1 million per year is all it took to lure Cordero from a team set up to contend annually for the next several years to one that simply isn't. That the Reds spent this much on a guy who only figures to throw 70 innings per year shows precisely why they're going nowhere fast. Cordero is a fine pitcher, but he blew one more save than David Weathers did last season. He's only going to make so much of a difference. Nov. 23 - 5:12 pm et
Source: FOXSports.com
:wow:

[omid17]

RIP Joe Kennedy

[Spidey-Bat]

To Yankee Fans: What would you think about this? I thought about it when I was discussing a Santana trade on another forum.

Mets get:
Chien Ming Wang
Melky Cabrera

Yankees get:
Lastings Milledge
Aaron Heilman
Philip Humber

[fu manchu]

Is it scary that when I heard the news about Kennedy, I automatically assumed that it was due to hgh or steroids...?

That is a scary thought. Hopefully thats not the case.

:wow:
Thats alot of money for a closer that I don't consider in the top tier of closers. didn't he sucked in the second half?

[NewYorkSpider]

To Yankee Fans: What would you think about this? I thought about it when I was discussing a Santana trade on another forum.

Mets get:
Chien Ming Wang
Melky Cabrera

Yankees get:
Lastings Milledge
Aaron Heilman
Philip Humber

Miledge and Heilman I wouldn't mind. Philip Humber i'm not sure about. Would you give up Mike Pelfrey?

[Kingfish]

there have been so many bad reliever signings lately, its getting ridiculous. and why would the reds would give that much to cordero when they really are not contenders yet? teams seriously need to stop overpaying for relief pitchers.

[Jerry!]

Thats just the way it is now.

[Spidey-Bat]

Miledge and Heilman I wouldn't mind. Philip Humber i'm not sure about. Would you give up Mike Pelfrey?

I wouldn't give up Pelfrey. I'd only trade him if I was getting an ace.

[sinewave]

It isn't like I'm happy he died. Its just an expression calm down. Its not like I'm at the guy's funeral saying that, its a freaking internet message board.

you just don't get it...

:wow:

that's a crazy deal. cordero's a decent closer, but no way is he worth that kind of casheesh. there's no way they're gonna win by shelling out that kind of cash for someone who pitches 80 innings a year rather than filling more important holes like starting pitching.

To Yankee Fans: What would you think about this? I thought about it when I was discussing a Santana trade on another forum.

Mets get:
Chien Ming Wang
Melky Cabrera

Yankees get:
Lastings Milledge
Aaron Heilman
Philip Humber

that doesn't seem fair from the yankees' perspective. wang might be their best starter and cabrera, while not great, has been a better player than milledge. i keep hearing the hype about millege and humber but they haven't proven worhty of it, yet.

[Spidey-Bat]

that doesn't seem fair from the yankees' perspective. wang might be their best starter and cabrera, while not great, has been a better player than milledge. i keep hearing the hype about millege and humber but they haven't proven worhty of it, yet.

Milledge has a much higher ceiling than Cabrera. Humber got his first ML start this year. Although it was bad, he pitched well but lost steam. He struggled in AAA (mostly b/c the Mets changed to the PCL, a hitters league) and was burned out by Sept.

[cyborg ninja 14]

Jerry! is an ******* for that Kennedy comment:csad: R.I.P Joe Kennedy

[NewYorkSpider]

I haven't been on here much because I've been getting sick of rumors. The Johan Santana deal still intrests me though.

I've just heard that Santana has a Full No-Trade clause. This means he controls his own destiny. If he wanted to, he could waive the clause or demand a contract extension over $20MIL per year.

The team rumors are as followed.


Yankees - They would offer Robinson Cano/Phil Hughes/Jose Tabata(Yankees outfielder prospect). Other deals could include Melky Cabrera/Ian Kennedy/Joba Chamberlain/Alan Horne(Yankee pitching prospect).
Red Sox - They would offer Coco Crisp/Clay Buchholz or Jon Lester and a third prospect.
Mets - I have heard they would start with either Jose Reyes or Carlos Gomez. Maybe Kevin Mulvey/Phil Humber/Mike PelfreyThe other teams that could get in the mix are the Dodgers and Angels. They might be too busy with getting Miguel Cabrera, so they could pop in at the last minute. The 3 teams above could get Santana before the winter meetings(December 3rd?), but given the huge aspects of this trade, it could take a lot longer.

My thoughts and prayers go out to Joe Kennedy's family. RIP.

[NewYorkSpider]

I wouldn't give up Pelfrey. I'd only trade him if I was getting an ace.

I heard Pelfrey was the Mets #1 pitching prospect, so I don't blame you there. The only way I would accept that trade that you said, is if the Yankees weren't doing jack ****. I would take Miledge over Cabrera any day. Philip Humber is a toss up. He struggled for awhile in the minors, but he looks like he can be a well balanced pitcher.

[cyborg ninja 14]

Yankees - They would offer Robinson Cano/Phil Hughes/Jose Tabata(Yankees outfielder prospect). Other deals could include Melky Cabrera/Ian Kennedy/Joba Chamberlain/Alan Horne(Yankee pitching prospect).
Red Sox - They would offer Coco Crisp/Clay Buchholz or Jon Lester and a third prospect.
Mets - I have heard they would start with either Jose Reyes or Carlos Gomez. Maybe Kevin Mulvey/Phil Humber/Mike PelfreyThe other teams that could get in the mix are the Dodgers and Angels. They might be too busy with getting Miguel Cabrera, so they could pop in at the last minute. The 3 teams above could get Santana before the winter meetings(December 3rd?), but given the huge aspects of this trade, it could take a lot longer.



Johan desevers the top dollar price, if he can't get more than what Zito got, then the market is terribly screwed up.

[Kingfish]

the market is of course screwed up. that zito contract was bad looking to begin with, only got worse when he actually pitched. of course johan deserves more than zito and is obviously a better pitcher, but what a terrible benchmark that contract set.

and bad form jerry. totally classless.

[cyborg ninja 14]

Gotta love A-Rod's HR incentives in his new contract. Who wouldn't sign on the dotted line to that?

[Dodger]

Gotta love A-Rod's HR incentives in his new contract. Who wouldn't sign on the dotted line to that?

wait what is it?

[Spidey-Bat]

I've just heard that Santana has a Full No-Trade clause. This means he controls his own destiny. If he wanted to, he could waive the clause or demand a contract extension over $20MIL per year.
He doesn't have a full no-trade claue. He can block 12 teams. It sounds like he's not going anywhere unless he gets an extension.

Yankees - They would offer Robinson Cano/Phil Hughes/Jose Tabata(Yankees outfielder prospect). Other deals could include Melky Cabrera/Ian Kennedy/Joba Chamberlain/Alan Horne(Yankee pitching prospect).
I've heard the Twins definitely want Cano. If the Yankees won't trade him, either Hughes or Chamberlain will have to be in the deal. Possibly even both.

Red Sox - They would offer Coco Crisp/Clay Buchholz or Jon Lester and a third prospect.
The Red Sox aren't seriously interested. Their names have only come up because they have young guys and the Yankees are after him. They would have to give Ellsbury instead of Crisp.

Mets - I have heard they would start with either Jose Reyes or Carlos Gomez. Maybe Kevin Mulvey/Phil Humber/Mike Pelfrey
Jose Reyes won't go anywhere. The Twins really like Carlos Gomez so the Mets will likely part with him and possibly Milledge. Some of the young pitchers will definitely go. The Mets could possibly trade their other prospect, Fernando Martinez. He could get a call up next season (at 19 years old).

The other teams that could get in the mix are the Dodgers and Angels. They might be too busy with getting Miguel Cabrera, so they could pop in at the last minute. The 3 teams above could get Santana before the winter meetings(December 3rd?), but given the huge aspects of this trade, it could take a lot longer.
Dodgers were being link to the Orioles for Erik Bedard since they probably don't want to give Santana a crazy contract. Angels never do anything big, if they do it will be for a bat like Miguel Cabrera (I've even heard Miguel Tejada's name come up).

I heard Pelfrey was the Mets #1 pitching prospect, so I don't blame you there. The only way I would accept that trade that you said, is if the Yankees weren't doing jack ****. I would take Miledge over Cabrera any day. Philip Humber is a toss up. He struggled for awhile in the minors, but he looks like he can be a well balanced pitcher.
Part of Humber's struggles this season had to do with the Mets switching from the International League (pitcher's league) to Pacific Coast League (hitter's league) because they changed their AAA affiliate.

[cyborg ninja 14]

wait what is it?

$6 additional millions to any milestone HR he passes (714, 755, 762)
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3126616

[DarthRekal]

does immortalfire come in here????


we should do a fan list in here too :up:

[cyborg ninja 14]

does immortalfire come in here????


we should do a fan list in here too :up:

You gonna do it?

[Superman79]

does immortalfire come in here????


we should do a fan list in here too :up:

I bet no one could guess who I root for.



I'm a Washington Nationals fan :wow::oldrazz:

[DarthRekal]

You gonna do it?
i guess:csad:


post your teams and i will add you... sorry.... with all the postseason posts cant tell whos going for who

[DarthRekal]

SHH MLB Threadsters Fan List

Dodgers: DarthRekal, Dodger
Red Sox: Superman79

[Superman79]

SHH MLB Threadsters Fan List

Dodgers: DarthRekal, Dodger
Red Sox: Superman79

LOL...that;s a big list!! ;)

I'll offer a little help off the top of my head:

sinewave- red sox
showtime--red sox
new york spider--yankees
ben urich--yankees
fran- tigers
spideybat-mets
dbella-mariners
erz- yankees
jerry--white sox

um...

[DarthRekal]

SHH MLB Threadsters Fan List

Dodgers: DarthRekal, Dodger
Mariners: DBella
Mets: Spidey-Bat
Red Sox: Superman79, sinewave, Showtime
Tigers: Fran
White Sox: Jerry!
Yankees: Ben Urich, New York Spider, Erzengel

[DarthRekal]

LOL...that;s a big list!! ;)

I'll offer a little help off the top of my head:

sinewave- red sox
showtime--red sox
new york spider--yankees
ben urich--yankees
fran- tigers
spideybat-mets
dbella-mariners
erz- yankees
jerry--white sox

um...
LOL!.. thanks :hyper: :woot:

[cyborg ninja 14]

I'm a D-Back fan, and not the bandwagoning type from '01.

[Fran]

Whatever makes you feel better... :o

[cyborg ninja 14]

Whatever makes you feel better... :o

Gus Ferrotte fumbling which screwed up a potential Rams victory does:o

[Fran]

You win this round.

Also, I finally have a counter to your Todd MacFarlane autograph!!

[DarthRekal]

SHH MLB Threadsters Fan List

Diamondbacks: cyborg ninja 14
Dodgers: DarthRekal, Dodger
Mariners: DBella
Mets: Spidey-Bat
Red Sox: Superman79, sinewave, Showtime
Tigers: Fran
White Sox: Jerry!
Yankees: Ben Urich, New York Spider, Erzengel

[cyborg ninja 14]

You win this round.

Also, I finally have a counter to your Todd MacFarlane autograph!!

What's that?

[NewYorkSpider]

He doesn't have a full no-trade claue. He can block 12 teams. It sounds like he's not going anywhere unless he gets an extension.

From the Star Tribune in Minnesota

It's complicated because Santana has a complete no-trade clause. Any team that trades for him almost certainly would have to include a contract extension, and with all that leverage, Santana could ask for $150 million.


http://www.startribune.com/twins/story/1538808.html


I've heard the Twins definitely want Cano. If the Yankees won't trade him, either Hughes or Chamberlain will have to be in the deal. Possibly even both.


The Twins have said they have a good second baseman coming up (Alexi Casilla) that they believe will be good. Melky Cabrera could be on their radar other than Cano.

The Red Sox aren't seriously interested. Their names have only come up because they have young guys and the Yankees are after him. They would have to give Ellsbury instead of Crisp

I forgot to mention Ellsbury. The Red Sox already have a strong roatation for next year, so you're right about them not being that intrested. Anything can happen though.


Jose Reyes won't go anywhere. The Twins really like Carlos Gomez so the Mets will likely part with him and possibly Milledge. Some of the young pitchers will definitely go. The Mets could possibly trade their other prospect, Fernando Martinez. He could get a call up next season (at 19 years old).


The Mets seem to be intrested in Freddy Garcia and Erik Bedard. I'm not sure if Santana is their #1 priority at this point?


Dodgers were being link to the Orioles for Erik Bedard since they probably don't want to give Santana a crazy contract. Angels never do anything big, if they do it will be for a bat like Miguel Cabrera (I've even heard Miguel Tejada's name come up).


I heard the Dodgers were persuing the hardest for him. Jonathan Broxton, Matt Kemp, and Clayton Kershaw are names that come up for the Bedard trade. Kemp and Kershaw could be involved in the Miguel Cabrera trade. At this point I think the Dodgers need to get Cabrera. They're in a division with great pitching. It would be nice to have an offensive weapon. Plus, they need a great HR hitter. Jeff Kent led the team this past season with 20.


Part of Humber's struggles this season had to do with the Mets switching from the International League (pitcher's league) to Pacific Coast League (hitter's league) because they changed their AAA affiliate.


That makes sense. He was an outstanding pitcher in college. He certainly has potential to pitch in the big leagues.

[cyborg ninja 14]

[B].

The Mets seem to be intrested in Freddy Garcia and Erik Bedard. I'm not sure if Santana is their #1 priority at this point?



Bedard would be a fantastic pickup for the Mets.

[Fran]

What's that?

The Michigan State football team :word:

[DarthRekal]

I heard the Dodgers were persuing the hardest for him. Jonathan Broxton, Matt Kemp, and Clayton Kershaw are names that come up for the Bedard trade. Kemp and Kershaw could be involved in the Miguel Cabrera trade. At this point I think the Dodgers need to get Cabrera. They're in a division with great pitching. It would be nice to have an offensive weapon. Plus, they need a great HR hitter. Jeff Kent led the team this past season with 20..


OH GOD please no:cmad: :cmad: :csad:


i HATE that Bedard trade i didnt even know who he was:cmad:

and the Marlins want TOO MUCH for miggy....


rather stand pat... whatever happens happens

[cyborg ninja 14]

The Michigan State football team :word:

The entire team? Do you have evidence?

[Dark Donnie]

Peter Gammons is reporting that the Twins will want Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera and Austin Jackson in a package for Johan Santana.
That's not such a ridiculous demand. The Yankees have to know they're not getting Santana without giving up one of their three young studs, and the Twins likely will demand Hughes over Ian Kennday. Cabrera isn't the young offensive star the Twins would like, but he will be a solid regular for five years. Jackson improved tremendously in the second half of last season and has the tools to keep it up, but he's still only played like a top prospect for three months. It's still a high price to pay, but it's doubtful Santana can be had for much less.

DarthRekal put me down as a Phillies fan...thanks

[Fran]

The entire team? Do you have evidence?

Well, the jersey is in the hands of defensive captain Travis Key.

He's the fiancee of my sister. Well, she's basically my sister. Known her forever.

He told me he would get it done. :yay::yay::yay:

[Badger]

LOL...that;s a big list!! ;)

I'll offer a little help off the top of my head:

sinewave- red sox
showtime--red sox
new york spider--yankees
ben urich--yankees
fran- tigers
spideybat-mets
dbella-mariners
erz- yankees
jerry--white sox

um...

Badger--Royals :cmad: :cmad:

[Fran]

The whos? :huh:

[Spidey-Bat]

From the Star Tribune in Minnesota


http://www.startribune.com/twins/story/1538808.html


Either my contract source is wrong or the Star Tribune is wrong. Here's the clause in his contract:
may block trades to 3 clubs in 05, 8 in 06, 10 in 07 & 12 in 08
full no-trade clause for 2007-08 with top 3 in CY vote in 06 or 07

He finished 5th in CY voting.

The Twins have said they have a good second baseman coming up (Alexi Casilla) that they believe will be good. Melky Cabrera could be on their radar other than Cano.
Their 2B is not as good as Cano. They might even move Cano to 3B. Yankees won't but Twins may have other plans.

I forgot to mention Ellsbury. The Red Sox already have a strong roatation for next year, so you're right about them not being that intrested. Anything can happen though.
They could steal him at the last minute from the Yankees. I think that'd be stupid. They just won a World Series, they don't need to do sell the farm just to get him from the Yankees.

The Mets seem to be intrested in Freddy Garcia and Erik Bedard. I'm not sure if Santana is their #1 priority at this point?
Santana is definitely #1 on their priorities. Their first choice of catcher was Ramon Hernandez. His price was a top prospect, so they got Estrada instead. Minaya has also said no prospect is untouchable.

Freddy Garcia is a low risk/moderate reward. He's a FA and costs no draft picks. Bedard may be a plan B if Santana fails. They could try to get him and Ramon Hernandez in a deal.

I heard the Dodgers were persuing the hardest for him. Jonathan Broxton, Matt Kemp, and Clayton Kershaw are names that come up for the Bedard trade. Kemp and Kershaw could be involved in the Miguel Cabrera trade. At this point I think the Dodgers need to get Cabrera. They're in a division with great pitching. It would be nice to have an offensive weapon. Plus, they need a great HR hitter. Jeff Kent led the team this past season with 20.
I agree, the Dodgers really need to get Cabrera. He's not going to be a FA so you can lock him up for a bit. Florida is trying to fleece teams for Cabrera and Willis. They could land him in a very fair deal though.

That makes sense. He was an outstanding pitcher in college. He certainly has potential to pitch in the big leagues.
I don't think he'll pan out to what the Mets had expected. They probably expected too much like they have with a lot of their recent prospects.

[Badger]

The whos? :huh:


T.H.E. R.O.Y.A.L.S.

[NewYorkSpider]

Either my contract source is wrong or the Star Tribune is wrong. Here's the clause in his contract:
may block trades to 3 clubs in 05, 8 in 06, 10 in 07 & 12 in 08
full no-trade clause for 2007-08 with top 3 in CY vote in 06 or 07


It says he gets the full no-trade clause for 07-08 if he finishes in the top 3 in Cy Young voting in either 06 or 07. He won it it 06. I think thats what that may mean?:huh:

[DarthRekal]

SHH MLB Threadsters Fan List

Diamondbacks: cyborg ninja 14
Dodgers: DarthRekal, Dodger
Mariners: DBella
Mets: Spidey-Bat
Phillies: Dark Donnie
Red Sox: Superman79, sinewave, Showtime
Royals: Badger
Tigers: Fran
White Sox: Jerry!
Yankees: Ben Urich, New York Spider, Erzengel

[Spidey-Bat]

It says he gets the full no-trade clause for 07-08 if he finishes in the top 3 in Cy Young voting in either 06 or 07. He won it it 06. I think thats what that may mean?:huh:

Ah, I misread it. I thought he had to get top 3 in both 2006 and 2007 to have a full NTC in 2007 and 2008.

Nonetheless, it only limits the Twins to suitors who have the money to sign him to an extension and the prospects to land him.

[omid17]

SHH MLB Threadsters Fan List

Diamondbacks: cyborg ninja 14
Dodgers: DarthRekal, Dodger
Mariners: DBella
Mets: Spidey-Bat
Phillies: Dark Donnie
Red Sox: Superman79, sinewave, Showtime
Royals: Badger
Tigers: Fran
White Sox: Jerry!
Yankees: Ben Urich, New York Spider, Erzengelme for angels

[DarthRekal]

SHH MLB Threadsters Fan List

Angels: omid17
Diamondbacks: cyborg ninja 14
Dodgers: DarthRekal, Dodger
Mariners: DBella
Mets: Spidey-Bat
Phillies: Dark Donnie
Red Sox: Superman79, sinewave, Showtime
Royals: Badger
Tigers: Fran
White Sox: Jerry!
Yankees: Ben Urich, New York Spider, Erzengel

[Panophobia]

SHH MLB Threadsters Fan List

Angels: omid17
Diamondbacks: cyborg ninja 14
Dodgers: DarthRekal, Dodger
Mariners: DBella
Mets: Spidey-Bat
Phillies: Dark Donnie
Red Sox: Superman79, sinewave, Showtime
Royals: Badger
Tigers: Fran
White Sox: Jerry!
Yankees: Ben Urich, New York Spider, Erzengel
http://www.hotelsbycity.net/blog/usa_georgia_atlanta/files/2007/03/atlanta-braves-logo1.jpg

[fu manchu]

i'm a dodgers and an angels fan........put me down as an angels fan!! :word:

[DarthRekal]

SHH MLB Threadsters Fan List

Angels: omid17, fu manchu
Braves: Panophobia
Diamondbacks: cyborg ninja 14
Dodgers: DarthRekal, Dodger
Mariners: DBella
Mets: Spidey-Bat
Phillies: Dark Donnie
Red Sox: Superman79, sinewave, Showtime
Royals: Badger
Tigers: Fran
White Sox: Jerry!
Yankees: Ben Urich, New York Spider, Erzengel

[omid17]

i'm a dodgers and an angels fan........put me down as an angels fan!! :word::up:

SHH MLB Threadsters Fan List

Angels: omid17, fu manchu
Braves: Panophobia
Diamondbacks: cyborg ninja 14
Dodgers: DarthRekal, Dodger
Mariners: DBella
Mets: Spidey-Bat
Phillies: Dark Donnie
Red Sox: Superman79, sinewave, Showtime
Royals: Badger
Tigers: Fran
White Sox: Jerry!
Yankees: Ben Urich, New York Spider, Erzengel:up:thanks DR

[El ASESINO]

I'm a Braves fan




GO BRAVES!

[Immortalfire]

Braves for me, too.

[cookiva]

Red Sox for me...

[DarthRekal]

SHH MLB Threadsters Fan List

Angels: omid17, fu manchu
Braves: Panophobia, EL ASESINO, Immortalfire
Diamondbacks: cyborg ninja 14
Dodgers: DarthRekal, Dodger
Mariners: DBella
Mets: Spidey-Bat
Phillies: Dark Donnie
Red Sox: Superman79, sinewave, Showtime, cookiva
Royals: Badger
Tigers: Fran
White Sox: Jerry!
Yankees: Ben Urich, New York Spider, Erzengel

[NewYorkSpider]

Excel is a Yankee fan.

[Poeman]

yanks fan right here

[DarthRekal]

SHH MLB Threadsters Fan List

Angels: omid17, fu manchu
Braves: Panophobia, EL ASESINO, Immortalfire
Diamondbacks: cyborg ninja 14
Dodgers: DarthRekal, Dodger
Mariners: DBella
Mets: Spidey-Bat
Phillies: Dark Donnie
Red Sox: Superman79, sinewave, Showtime, cookiva
Royals: Badger
Tigers: Fran
White Sox: Jerry!
Yankees: Ben Urich, New York Spider, Erzengel, Excel, Poeman

[Excel]

Excel is a Yankee fan.

Is that a joke? :dry:

Angels: omid17, fu manchu
Braves: Panophobia, EL ASESINO, Immortalfire
Diamondbacks: cyborg ninja 14
Dodgers: DarthRekal, Dodger
Mariners: DBella
Mets: Spidey-Bat
Phillies: Dark Donnie
Red Sox: Superman79, sinewave, Showtime, cookiva, EXCEL
Royals: Badger
Tigers: Fran
White Sox: Jerry!
Yankees: Ben Urich, New York Spider, Erzengel, Poeman

[NewYorkSpider]

Is that a joke? :dry:


Yes it was.

[cookiva]

But NYS said you are a yankee fan....

[Excel]

Yes it was.

Ah I see; didnt want nobody getting confused ;)

[punishermax]

So the Brewers picked up Jason Kendall to take over for the slow as hell and now traded Estrada. I also heard rumblings about Jason Bay becoming a Crew member. I think Bay would be a nice pick up, but they still need pitching.........bad! If they bullpen played ball in September like they did April and May, they would have been in the playoffs.

[NewYorkSpider]

So the Brewers picked up Jason Kendall to take over for the slow as hell and now traded Estrada. I also heard rumblings about Jason Bay becoming a Crew member. I think Bay would be a nice pick up, but they still need pitching.........bad! If they bullpen played ball in September like they did April and May, they would have been in the playoffs.

They'll get the bullpen help they need. They are looking at Troy Percival and Kerry Wood. Percival is looking for a contract with more years and money. The Brewers aren't exactly comfortable with that. Wood is probably going to stay in Chicago.

[Dodger]

i'm a dodgers and an angels fan........put me down as an angels fan!! :word:

bandwagoner :cmad:

[Kingfish]

as awesome as it was that percival came back as good as he did, i wouldn't be comfortable giving him more than a one year deal. he could lose it again fairly easily.

oh and,

http://www.district55.org/images/angels_A_logo_04.jpg

[cyborg ninja 14]

Well, the jersey is in the hands of defensive captain Travis Key.

He's the fiancee of my sister. Well, she's basically my sister. Known her forever.

He told me he would get it done. :yay::yay::yay:

Awesome! definently show a pic when you get it:up:

[sinewave]

So the Brewers picked up Jason Kendall to take over for the slow as hell and now traded Estrada. I also heard rumblings about Jason Bay becoming a Crew member. I think Bay would be a nice pick up, but they still need pitching.........bad! If they bullpen played ball in September like they did April and May, they would have been in the playoffs.

i've heard the indians are interested in bay, too. whoever gets him will really benefit from his skills. if the brewers land him they could play him in right, slide hart to center, hall to 3B and braun to LF. man, that would be a kick-ass lineup.

[Silver Knight]

Im a Cubs and Yanks fan.

[cookiva]

Im a Cubs and Yanks fan.

Wtf dude. How many teams total do you call yourself a fan of.

[Silver Knight]

2 for Baseball.

Is there a problem?

[cookiva]

So far, thru 3 leagues, you like 22 teams...thats kind of scary

[Silver Knight]

Not really. 40% of the NBA, 20% of the NFL and 5% of the MLB.

[cyborg ninja 14]

Not really. 40% of the NBA, 20% of the NFL and 5% of the MLB.

That's a lot of loyalty right there though.

[DarthRekal]

SHH MLB Threadsters Fan List

Angels: omid17, fu manchu, Kingfish
Braves: Panophobia, EL ASESINO, Immortalfire
Cubs: Silver Knight
Diamondbacks: cyborg ninja 14
Dodgers: DarthRekal, Dodger
Mariners: DBella
Mets: Spidey-Bat
Phillies: Dark Donnie
Red Sox: Superman79, sinewave, Showtime, cookiva, Excel
Royals: Badger
Tigers: Fran
White Sox: Jerry!
Yankees: Ben Urich, New York Spider, Erzengel, Poeman

[Jerry!]

That's a lot of loyalty right there though.


Who cares? Let him root for his teams.

[Superman79]

Im a Cubs and Yanks fan.


http://proxy.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/020227

This column has been brewing for about six weeks, ever since a startling phone conversation with one of my Page 2 bosses (KJ, a Seattle native and die-hard Seahawks fan). We were chatting about the Patriots and Steelers potentially colliding in the playoffs, when KJ suddenly said, "At least if my Steelers lose, I'll be happy for you, because the Pats made it."

Huh? My Steelers??? And this was how I found out that KJ -- my esteemed editor and friend, a good man, a father and a husband, the man who makes Page 2 run so smoothly -- was a Sports Bigamist. As it turns out, the Steelers are KJ's Second-Favorite Team, whatever that means. Apparently, as long as Pittsburgh isn't playing Seattle, he roots for the Steelers, but he doesn't root for the Steelers quite as hard as he roots for the Seahawks, and if both teams are doing well, he chooses the Seahawks, but that doesn't mean he doesn't care about the Steelers, and I think I just lost control of my bowels.

Honestly, I just can't understand it. You cannot root for two teams at the same time. You cannot hedge your bets. You cannot unconditionally love two teams at the same time, when there's a remote chance that they might go head-to-head some day....

as we mentioned in the beginning of this column, you shouldn't practice "Sports Bigamy" in general. Sports teams are just like wives ... you can only have one wife, you can only have one sports team, and for the love of God, I will not argue about this.

Pretty funny article all around...and thought it was pertinant ;)

[Spidey-Bat]

My friend with sources says that Bill Smith (Twins GM) is overvaluing Johan Santana so much (which is surprisingly possible), it doesn't seem likely he'll be traded at all this off-season unless his lessens his demands during the GM meetings. To give you an idea, he allegedly wanted Phil Hughes, Joba Chamberlain, Melky Cabrera, and Jose Tabata from the Yankees for Santana.

[Dodger]

I will be happy if the Dodgers pass on Cabrera. It's too much too give up.
Joe Torre I think is the best signing the Dodgers have done this offseason.

[Kingfish]

Shame on the Dodgers if Joe Torre is their biggest move.

im actually inclined to agree with this, they need to do something. if not cabrera then something.

heres the link to the full article:
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7488246

[Spidey-Bat]

Dodgers need to get Cabrera. They have the young guys to do it.

[DarthRekal]

I will be happy if the Dodgers pass on Cabrera. It's too much too give up.
Joe Torre I think is the best signing the Dodgers have done this offseason.
SO agree
Dodgers need to get Cabrera. They have the young guys to do it.
we were okay last year until the clubhouse imploded.. Torre should STOP this... and they want WAY too much for Migs.... im inclined to disagree with all the outsiders saying we should do something... at this point id rather do nothing else...Torre should be enough.. and our KIDS should be even better this year.. we will be alright..

[Spidey-Bat]

They need to do more. They can't go into next season expecting their young players to step up and fill the holes.

[DarthRekal]

They need to do more. They can't go into next season expecting their young players to step up and fill the holes.
what holes?? other than third????

:huh:


so we bring up LaRoche or have Young play some extra games... noone's expecting us to make that big a noise next year anyway... so why mortgage the Future on a get rich quick scheme.. when we can develope a LONG TERM plan

[cyborg ninja 14]

My friend with sources says that Bill Smith (Twins GM) is overvaluing Johan Santana so much (which is surprisingly possible), it doesn't seem likely he'll be traded at all this off-season unless his lessens his demands during the GM meetings. To give you an idea, he allegedly wanted Phil Hughes, Joba Chamberlain, Melky Cabrera, and Jose Tabata from the Yankees for Santana.

Is your friend by chance Buster Olney?

[Spidey-Bat]

what holes?? other than third????

:huh:


so we bring up LaRoche or have Young play some extra games... noone's expecting us to make that big a noise next year anyway... so why mortgage the Future on a get rich quick scheme.. when we can develope a LONG TERM plan

The hole is more than just the position of 3B. It's the lack of a clean up hitter in the lineup. Jeff Kent lead the team with 20 HR. I don't know which of that is more surprising. Trading for Miguel Cabrera is not a quick fix. He's a few years a way from FA and they could extend him.

Is your friend by chance Buster Olney?

Thankfully not. I personally find those demands to be too ridiculous for a GM. I'm just passing on what he told me. He's even admitted sometimes he gets some info that he doesn't fully believe and most of the times it isn't. He thinks it's true but I don't. It could be because I want Johan Santana so badly but I'm still very realistic about what it'd take to get him.

[DarthRekal]

The hole is more than just the position of 3B. It's the lack of a clean up hitter in the lineup. Jeff Kent lead the team with 20 HR. I don't know which of that is more surprising. Trading for Miguel Cabrera is not a quick fix. He's a few years a way from FA and they could extend him.

I understand but you are buying into the hype of a POWER hitter and need vs... LUXURY ... before the last coupe of months we were still LEADING the division with a less than competent manager at the helm... Loney can provide pop as well as Kemp.... they want Kershaw.. and its FAR too much to give him up AND Kemp or Ethier if we dont have an OF to replace them... and we all see what happens to FA's nowawdays... BIG money... no thanks.... you can keep Cabrera... we already have too many ugly contracts... and i'd rather take this as a "pass" year and develope the kids.. so they CAN fill in the holes.. providing loyalty stability longevity and economy

[Dodger]

what holes?? other than third????

:huh:


so we bring up LaRoche or have Young play some extra games... noone's expecting us to make that big a noise next year anyway... so why mortgage the Future on a get rich quick scheme.. when we can develope a LONG TERM plan

Yeah third is a huge hole. Ever since Beltre. But remember we don't have a good, #4 and#5 starter. I would like the dodgers to pass on Cabrera and just get solid #4 and #5 guys and make the bench solid.

A solid bullpen to help out Beimel, Broxton and Saito would be nice.

[DarthRekal]

true im not saying we CANT improve... i just dont think Cabrera is worth the price.. and doesnt look like anyone else is looking our way worth mentioning... so i say .. screw it.. Lets Roll with what we got :cmad:

[sinewave]

a lot of teams would love to have the "hole" that the dodgers have at 3B. laroche is gonne be a good player if they give him a chance.

[DarthRekal]

a lot of teams would love to have the "hole" that the dodgers have at 3B. laroche is gonne be a good player if they give him a chance.
thank you :up:

[Dark Donnie]

Yankees, Twins discuss Santana trade

Yankees senior vice president Hank Steinbrenner said Monday that his team is involved in ongoing discussions with the Twins regarding Johan Santana.

We have to wonder how Brian Cashman feels about his boss talking to the press about anything and everything. At least Steinbrenner didn't completely spell out the Yankees' offer. "I don't want to get into that at this point, as far as what they want, what we're willing to give and all that," he said. "It's preliminary right now." Nov. 26 - 8:52 pm et
Source: The Associated Press
....

[Dodger]

true im not saying we CANT improve... i just dont think Cabrera is worth the price.. and doesnt look like anyone else is looking our way worth mentioning... so i say .. screw it.. Lets Roll with what we got :cmad:


YEAH! :cmad: :cmad:

All of the dodgers greats have come within. Lopes, Cey, Garvey, Koufax, Piazza, Mondesi (before he went south) Karros many many more.

The kids can do this. Lets Roll! :D!

a lot of teams would love to have the "hole" that the dodgers have at 3B. laroche is gonne be a good player if they give him a chance.

You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. :up: may a beautiful women fall between your legs tonight. :D

[Spidey-Bat]

....

The Twins want a lot from the Yankees. Even if what my friend said is not true, the deal starts with Cano and Hughes.

[sinewave]

You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. :up: may a beautiful women fall between your legs tonight. :D

already happened, but thanks anyway. :up:

[NewYorkSpider]

The Twins want a lot from the Yankees. Even if what my friend said is not true, the deal starts with Cano and Hughes.

They don't want Cano, they want Cabrera. I think it's stupid for the Twins not to ask for Cano. I'm thinking that if they take Cabrera, they will want Chamberlain rather than Hughes or Kennedy

[Spidey-Bat]

They definitely want Cano. Cabrera is really average. They could get a better young OF elsewhere.


For a Met fan, this off-season is feeling like the 90's. The Mets so far have traded for Johnny Estrada, signed Castillo to a 4 year deal and re-signed some of their bench players. Meanwhile across town, the Yankees re-signed Posada, Rivera, A-Rod and have revealed (although unwisely) they are pursuing Johan Santana. Some things never change.

[Showtime]

The Yankees have already made their offer of Cano, Cabrera, and Hughes.

[Spidey-Bat]

What's their offer to Santana? He first has to accept the extension before the Twins can choose to accept or reject the team's trade proposal.

[Showtime]

What's their offer to Santana? He first has to accept the extension before the Twins can choose to accept or reject the team's trade proposal.

That's their offer to the Twins. It was just reported on the radio. Two stations.

[NewYorkSpider]

They're not giving up both Cano and Cabrera. I want to know who said that. The Yankees have said Cano and Chamberlain are off limits.

[Spidey-Bat]

They have to make an extension offer to Santana. If he approves that, then the Twins can approve or reject the Yankees' trade.

They're not giving up both Cano and Cabrera. I want to know who said that. The Yankees have said Cano and Chaberlain are off limits.

Why not? Cabrera is not an irreplaceable part. That would be a great trade for the Yankees. Not so much for the Twins.

[Showtime]

They're not giving up both Cano and Cabrera. I want to know who said that. The Yankees have said Cano and Chaberlain are off limits.

It was reported on 850 Weei here in Boston and the National ESPN radio I believe? Whether it's true or not, I don't know.

[Spidey-Bat]

Depends on who is behind it on ESPN.

[Showtime]

Personally I think Cabrera and one of the Yankees young arms is all I would allow if I was the Yankees Brass. Same for the Red Sox, I wouldn't be giving up both Lester and Buchholz.

[NewYorkSpider]

Why not? Cabrera is not an irreplaceable part. That would be a great trade for the Yankees. Not so much for the Twins.

This is from SI and John Heyman. I trust Heyman.

The Twins have opened trade discussions for Johan Santana (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6441) by asking the Yankees for a package of at least three young players that would include one of their three top starters -- Joba Chamberlain (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/8084), Phil Hughes (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7913) or Ian Kennedy (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/8099) -- plus center fielder Melky Cabrera (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/7595)

[Spidey-Bat]

Heyman isn't good.

[Showtime]

I believe that Heyman article is from this afternoon.

[Spidey-Bat]

The contract extension offer to Santana likely won't be revealed. The Yankees can be beaten on that.

Mets better at least be in on Santana. If they aren't, I will refuse to go to a game or buy any more merchandise until they get a real ace.

[Showtime]

The contract extension offer to Santana likely won't be revealed. The Yankees can be beaten on that.

Mets better at least be in on Santana. If they aren't, I will refuse to go to a game or buy any more merchandise until they get a real ace.

Well apparently Nathan is going to be up for grabs if Santana goes as well. The Twins are unloading a bit it seems.

[NewYorkSpider]

The contract extension offer to Santana likely won't be revealed. The Yankees can be beaten on that.

Mets better at least be in on Santana. If they aren't, I will refuse to go to a game or buy any more merchandise until they get a real ace.

I don't know if you have read this, thought you might be intrested.

From the New York Post



Even though the Wilpons haven't made any declarations to the media, the Mets are showing interest in Johan Santana. Hale notes a couple of stipulations: David Wright, Jose Reyes, and Carlos Beltran won't be dealt, and the Mets would want a 72-hour negotiation window. I don't think anyone expected anything different on either point. The Twins could certainly use an influx of outfield talent, and the Mets have it.
Octavio Dotel is one free agent on the Mets' radar, though we've known that since the 16th. "On the radar" is getting overused...I need an alternative. Dotel would be fine with a setup role, though I'm guessing it would take two years and $12MM or more. Dotel came up through the Mets' system as a starter, and was traded to the Astros in '99 in the Mike Hampton/Derek Bell/Roger Cedeno deal. The Tigers and Royals may also be in on Dotel.
The Mets also like Shawn Chacon, possibly as a swingman. The Rockies have interest in Chacon but only as a reliever. He's said that he'd prefer to start.

[NewYorkSpider]

Well apparently Nathan is going to be up for grabs if Santana goes as well. The Twins are unloading a bit it seems.

It continues with Morneau as well. I just heard a rumor that he could be dealt to the Angels for Ervin Santana and Casey Kotchman.

[Spidey-Bat]

I saw it. I usually don't trust the Post's sports section much but all of that seems to agree with what I've heard already. I'm surprised Beltran's name is even brought up considering how big his deal is. Dotel wouldn't be a bad option provided he could stay healthy.

It continues with Morneau as well. I just heard a rumor that he could be dealt to the Angels for Ervin Santana and Casey Kotchman.

I think they'll end up locking him up if they can't with Santana. There isn't a lot of demand for a 1B like there is a dominant starting pitcher so it should be easier for them.

[NewYorkSpider]

I think they'll end up locking him up if they can't with Santana. There isn't a lot of demand for a 1B like there is a dominant starting pitcher so it should be easier for them.

I agree, I also would think that the Twins would ask for something more that just E. Santana and Kotchman.

[Showtime]

Wow. This is heating up. I love Hot Stove.

[Kingfish]

I agree, I also would think that the Twins would ask for something more that just E. Santana and Kotchman.

lets just say that if the twins were willing to accept santana and kotchman for morneau, then morneau would be introduced as an angel tomorrow right next to hunter and garland.

i would tend to think that even if they were looking at trading morneau, they'd want three good players including a better pitcher than santana.

[NewYorkSpider]

lets just say that if the twins were willing to accept santana and kotchman for morneau, then morneau would be introduced as an angel tomorrow right next to hunter and garland.

i would tend to think that even if they were looking at trading morneau, they'd want three good players including a better pitcher than santana.

I would think the Twins would ask for another player. Maybe Brandon Wood?

[Kingfish]

i could definately see them wanting wood. but they need outfielders now right? off the top of my head i could see them wanting kotchman, adenhart, and willits for morneau.

[NewYorkSpider]

i could definately see them wanting wood. but they need outfielders now right? off the top of my head i could see them wanting kotchman, adenhart, and willits for morneau.

All they need is a CF. They have Craig Monroe in Left and Cuddyer in right. Willits (who I am guessing is a LF?) could be an option for them and they move him to CF. I think they'll end up with a CF from the Johan Santana deal if it happens.

[Kingfish]

All they need is a CF. They have Craig Monroe in Left and Cuddyer in right. Willits (who I am guessing is a LF?) could be an option for them and they move him to CF. I think they'll end up with a CF from the Johan Santana deal if it happens.

probably true that they would prefer melky or coco, but willits is perfectly capable playing all three outfield spots. doesn't really matter, i don't see this rumor as having much weight. i just don't see them moving morneau at this point.

[NewYorkSpider]

probably true that they would prefer melky or coco, but willits is perfectly capable playing all three outfield spots. doesn't really matter, i don't see this rumor as having much weight. i just don't see them moving morneau at this point.

I'm thinking this rumor came from the "I think this deal should happen....." I also don't think that Morneau will get traded.

[Dark Donnie]

Might have been posted but

Erik Bedard-S-Orioles Nov. 28 - 2:52 am et

FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal says the Mets made a strong run at Erik Bedard at the general managers' meetings, but Baltimore wasn't yet ready to deal the left-hander.

The Orioles supposedly want to see about signing Bedard to a long-term deal before they consider trading him, though if they've made him an offer, they've kept it quiet. The Mets probably offered either Lastings Milledge or Carlos Gomez, plus young pitching. The Dodgers are also very interested in Bedard.

[Silver Knight]

Who cares? Let him root for his teams.
Exactly! Thanks you.

[Showtime]

Looking forward to what the Phillies come up with for their alternates.

[Silver Knight]

What alternates?

[cyborg ninja 14]

i could definately see them wanting wood.

That's what she said?

[DarthRekal]

That's what she said?
:up: :hyper:

[Spidey-Bat]

Yesterday I was on the verge of becoming emo with all the Santana-Yankee news I heard. This morning wasn't so great when I looked in the paper. I see an article on Santana and the Yankees. Next to it the headline: "Livan possible target as Mets seek pitching". If that doesn't get you excited for next, what will?

Thankfully, the Mets are being revealed as a contender for him. Mostly due to they will likely be more willing to give up the best of their young talent for Santana whereas the Yankees, Red Sox, and LA teams may not.

[Kingfish]

That's what she said?

oh no, i let out the twins big secret. complete and utter impotency. i'm surprised they never had rafael palmeiro on their team.

seriously, though, what the hell is with this team? they have (or had) one of the best core of young players around, have a great manager, and one of the richest owners in baseball. and they just blow it all up? they are trying to trade the best starter in baseball, followed in all likelyhood by one of the best closers, let their all-star center fielder walk, and there are rumors of moving their mvp first baseman. i honestly feel bad for this franchise. if this keeps up, how long until contraction starts getting thrown about again?

[YsoSerious]

I see Tony LaRussa got busted for DUI. Whats the deal, didn't he learn anything from Josh Hancock? You can afford a driver dude.

[Dark Donnie]

Report: Twins to acquire Young from Rays

The Twins are close to landing Delmon Young from the Twins in a six-player deal that would send Matt Garza, Jason Bartlett and Juan Rincon to Tampa Bay.

The Twins would also pick up Brendan Harris and Jason Pridie, the Star Tribune's La Velle E. Neal III reports. Nov. 28 - 3:05 pm et
Source: Minneapolis Star Tribune

...

[Showtime]

What alternates?

Next season the Phillies are using a new 3rd Uniform Set.

Personally I like what the Indians did with their new 3rd Uniform Set.

http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/images/2007/11/18/fcd48k6y.jpg

[Showtime]

Yesterday I was on the verge of becoming emo with all the Santana-Yankee news I heard. This morning wasn't so great when I looked in the paper. I see an article on Santana and the Yankees. Next to it the headline: "Livan possible target as Mets seek pitching". If that doesn't get you excited for next, what will?

Thankfully, the Mets are being revealed as a contender for him. Mostly due to they will likely be more willing to give up the best of their young talent for Santana whereas the Yankees, Red Sox, and LA teams may not.

Will you miss Shea?

http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/images/2007/11/26/6nQ7M5Sw.gif

[Spidey-Bat]

Will you miss Shea?

http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/images/2007/11/26/6nQ7M5Sw.gif

The only thing I will miss is that it has 55,000 seats (cheaper ticket prices). Other than that, not really. It's decent but it's getting old.

[Jerry!]

I see Tony LaRussa got busted for DUI. Whats the deal, didn't he learn anything from Josh Hancock? You can afford a driver dude.

Again? Or are you confusing it with last off season?

Shea Stadium... IT GONE!

[DarthRekal]

March 29, 2008 Dodgers vs. Red Sox in the Coliseum :up: :woot:

[Dark Donnie]

yeah...that DUI was from 8 months ago

[Spidey-Bat]

Shea Stadium... IT GONE!

Nope, still there.

[Jerry!]

Not for long.

[cyborg ninja 14]

Yesterday I was on the verge of becoming emo with all the Santana-Yankee news I heard. This morning wasn't so great when I looked in the paper. I see an article on Santana and the Yankees. Next to it the headline: "Livan possible target as Mets seek pitching". If that doesn't get you excited for next, what will?

Thankfully, the Mets are being revealed as a contender for him. Mostly due to they will likely be more willing to give up the best of their young talent for Santana whereas the Yankees, Red Sox, and LA teams may not.

Livan Hernandez? HA!:woot: The free agent market for starters is thin though, wouldn't Carlos Silva be a better bet?

oh no, i let out the twins big secret. complete and utter impotency. i'm surprised they never had rafael palmeiro on their team.

seriously, though, what the hell is with this team? they have (or had) one of the best core of young players around, have a great manager, and one of the richest owners in baseball. and they just blow it all up? they are trying to trade the best starter in baseball, followed in all likelyhood by one of the best closers, let their all-star center fielder walk, and there are rumors of moving their mvp first baseman. i honestly feel bad for this franchise. if this keeps up, how long until contraction starts getting thrown about again?

At they'll still have Boof Bonser, Mauer, Morneu...

[Jerry!]

Don't get him started on Silva...

[Spidey-Bat]

Livan Hernandez? HA!:woot: The free agent market for starters is thin though, wouldn't Carlos Silva be a better bet?
No because Livan would take a cheap contract (1 year, $8M) because he wants to play with El Duque.

[cyborg ninja 14]

Don't get him started on Silva...

If you had to choose between Livo or Silva, wouldn't Silva be a better bet? and by better I mean, not as crappy?

[cyborg ninja 14]

No because Livan would take a cheap contract (1 year, $8M) because he wants to play with El Duque.

He woulda resigned with AZ if he wanted a cheap contract.

[Spidey-Bat]

He would definitely take one with the Mets. They play in a pitcher's park, they score more runs, are more likely be to competitive next 2 years, and he wants to be with El Duque.

[sinewave]

...

that's not a bad deal for both teams, but why would the twins get rid of their best young starter with their ace about to leave town? seems strange...

[Kingfish]

that's not a bad deal for both teams, but why would the twins get rid of their best young starter with their ace about to leave town? seems strange...

seems funny that they would trade garza with santana on the market and silva unlikely to be re-signed. three starters gone. wow. so assuming santana is traded, its boof and who knows.

[sinewave]

seems funny that they would trade garza with santana on the market and silva unlikely to be re-signed. three starters gone. wow. so assuming santana is traded, its boof and who knows.

yep, the only way i could see this deal helping them is if they had another one or two in the works for more pitching. though, i think liriano comes back at some point next season, but who knows when and how effective he'll be.

[Fran]

How bout them Tigers, huh?

[sinewave]

How bout them Tigers, huh?

aww, you just wanted to show off your new avvy. not bad.