Official 2008 MLB thread

[NewYorkSpider]

Hankenstein said that the 3rd player isn't even the issue.

Then I don't really see what the issue is. The Twins have said they want those players and then we said they're untouchable. It's got to be part of the reason.

[sinewave]

You think that's a rip-off? You should see what the Angels want for Cabrera.

you mean the kendrick-adenhart-mathis-prospect deal they offered the marlins? yeah, that's pretty ridiculous, too.

[omid17]

you mean the kendrick-adenhart-mathis-prospect deal they offered the marlins? yeah, that's pretty ridiculous, too.i would like that. Mathis and kendrick both suck ass in offense

[Spidey-Bat]

Then I don't really see what the issue is. The Twins have said they want those players and then we said they're untouchable. It's got to be part of the reason.

He's probably fed up with how long it's taking. I can understand but you don't give them an ultimatum when they're holding all the cards.

[Dodger]

Report: Dodgers make Andruw two-year offer

A source told ESPN's Jerry Crasnick that the Dodgers have a two-year, $32 million offer to Andruw Jones on the table.

That's not the kind of offer that figures to make Jones sign on the dotted line anytime soon. No one has stepped up with the kind of five- or six-year deal agent Scott Boras wants, but it'd be a surprise if some team wasn't willing to go to at least $50 million for three years. Dec. 3 - 2:24 pm et
Source: ESPN.com

Hmmm...interesting.

[sinewave]

i would like that. Mathis and kendrick both suck ass in offense

kendrick's gonna be a stud. give him a full season and he'll put up some great numbers. he's probably a perennial all-star/batting champ in the making. mathis, should be at least a league-average catcher.

[Dark Donnie]

I like Howie Kendrick

[Jerry!]

this is what i don't like about the yankees and their fans. the sense of entitlement and shortsightedness to sacrifice years of hard work to rebuild the farm system just prove they have the most money and can buy other teams' best players when they can't afford them. i'd rather not see the sox sink to that level and feel they have to buy a championship. they're fine without santana, as they proved last year. you guys can have him. your track record of success after signing high-priced free agents isn't very impressive lately so hopefully this will come back to bite them in the ass if they make the trade.

The Red Sox do the same bull****. This is what I don't like about Red Sox fans. Stop with this already, this argument is so full of ****. This is the best pitcher in baseball and thats exactly what the Yankees need. They need starting pitching. Because who the **** knows whats going to happen with Clemens, but if anything he isn't coming back in the beginning of the season, it'll be like last season if he comes back. One prospect traded for the best pitcher in baseball does not deplete a farm system. I don't know where people are getting that idea. Its just one guy.

[NewYorkSpider]

If the Yankees go after a good player, it automatically makes us the bad guys. I'm not going to settle on the lineup we have now(I posted reasons why a page ago) Pettite helps with being a lefty. I still want Bedard, Haren or Santana.

[Jerry!]

I don't get it. Red Sox fans have been posting in this thread that they need to get Santana just so the Yankees don't. If that isn't "stooping to their level" then what is? The Red Sox don't need him, right? This is what I can't stand about "Red Sox Nation". As much as they argue about the Yankees and their fan's sense of entitlement, they are completely blind of just how similar they are to them.

[sinewave]

The Red Sox do the same bull****. This is what I don't like about Red Sox fans. Stop with this already. This is the best pitcher in baseball and thats exactly what the Yankees need. They need starting pitching. Because who the **** knows whats going to happen with Clemens, but if anything he isn't coming back in the beginning of the season, it'll be like last season if he comes back. One prospect traded for the best pitcher in baseball does not deplete a farm system. I don't know where people are getting that idea. Its just one ****ing guy.

i knew someone was gonna completely misinterpret what i was saying and accuse me of being a hypocrite.

i already stated i don't like it when the red sox do it either and i don't want them continuing to act like the yankees. the sox don't need santana and neither do the yankees. it's a classic case of the rich getting richer. the yankees don't even need clemens. their current rotation, considering they finalize the pettitte deal, is wang, pettitte, chamberlain, hughes and kennedy/mussina. that's an impressive group of quality veterans and excellent young pitchers. with their insane offense they'll have no trouble making it to the playoffs again. and it's not just one prospect. it'll take at least two top prospects and a major leaguer to get santana. in the sox's case their biggest room for improvement from last year is SS and CF. that's why i don't think it's a good idea for them to trade away good, cheap, young players at those positions (lowrie and ellsbury) to acquire someone at a position of strength like their rotation.

[sinewave]

I don't get it. Red Sox fans have been posting in this thread that they need to get Santana just so the Yankees don't. If that isn't "stooping to their level" then what is? The Red Sox don't need him, right? This is what I can't stand about "Red Sox Nation". As much as they argue about the Yankees and their fan's sense of entitlement, they are completely blind of just how similar they are to them.

i haven't been saying "they need to get Santana just so the Yankees don't", so i hope you're not including me in this generalization. i'll flat out say it, i think it's a bad idea for the sox to trade their top young players for santana. it's obnoxious, yankee-level gluttony to add the game's best pitcher to the what's already the game's best rotation.

[Jerry!]

It obviously wasn't enough last season for the Yankees. Pettite and Mussina aren't Pettite and Mussina anymore, not like they were a few years ago. Chamberlain should be kept in the bullpen as their closer of the future. The Yankees would be making a huge mistake if they try to make him into a starter. They won't be getting rid of both Hughes and Kennedy. They need the ace. They don't have one.

[NewYorkSpider]

Is "regular season A-Rod" going to be the one we see during the playoffs though? I would still like a good effective pitcher that can eat up innings. I know Baltimore won't trade Bedard to the Yanks. I wish they would so we could have a starting lefty. At this point our rotation will be..

1. Wang (Can win 15+ games)
2. Mussina (Had a slump and an ERA of 5.15 last season)
3. Hughes (Can pitch good, but is sometimes inconsistent)
4. Chamberlin (Haven't seen him start a game in the majors, only a reliever)
5. Kennedy(2 out of 3 games he won in the majors. They were against TB and KC. We haven't seen him pitch against a good team yet)

This starting rotation still doesn't suit me well. The offense is going to be one of the best in baseball again, but come playoff time, I'd like some sort of reliable pitcher. This is why I hope we get Santana or Haren.


i already stated i don't like it when the red sox do it either and i don't want them continuing to act like the yankees. the sox don't need santana and neither do the yankees. it's a classic case of the rich getting richer. the yankees don't even need clemens. their current rotation, considering they finalize the pettitte deal, is wang, pettitte, chamberlain, hughes and kennedy/mussina. that's an impressive group of quality veterans and excellent young pitchers. with their insane offense they'll have no trouble making it to the playoffs again.


I'm quoting this so you can read my opinion on the matter. The young pitchers we have now may look impressive, but how are they going to be in the long run? Mussina and Pettite will more than likely be injured or have some sort of injury during the season(which will result in a trip to the DL). This is why getting another younger expierenced pitcher is what the Yankees need.

[Superman79]

i haven't been saying "they need to get Santana just so the Yankees don't", so i hope you're not including me in this generalization. i'll flat out say it, i think it's a bad idea for the sox to trade their top young players for santana. it's obnoxious, yankee-level gluttony to add the game's best pitcher to the what's already the game's best rotation.

I'm with sine...I'd much rather keep Ellsbury and our integrity than jsut act to block the Yanks.

I hope the trade takes the same path as the A-Rod/Red Sox trade of 03

[Spidey-Bat]

Yankees don't need to go for Santana. They could do with a Joe Blanton.

[Jerry!]

And thus, another first round exit from the playoffs.

[Spidey-Bat]

The problem is really the type of personalities they have on the team. They're all overpaid prima donnas. The 90's teams never had any of those.

[sinewave]

It obviously wasn't enough last season for the Yankees. Pettite and Mussina aren't Pettite and Mussina anymore, not like they were a few years ago. Chamberlain should be kept in the bullpen as their closer of the future. The Yankees would be making a huge mistake if they try to make him into a starter. They won't be getting rid of both Hughes and Kennedy. They need the ace. They don't have one.

they made the playoffs last year. basically it came down to their offense not putting enough runs on the board and the freaky thing with the gnats in cleveland that doomed the yankees. chamberlain is too talented a pitcher to relegate to just 80 innings. he's got the stuff to become an ace, which is much more valuable than a closer. besides, rivera's in that role for at least the next couple of seasons.

I'm quoting this so you can read my opinion on the matter. The young pitchers we have now may look impressive, but how are they going to be in the long run? Mussina and Pettite will more than likely be injured or have some sort of injury during the season(which will result in a trip to the DL). This is why getting another younger expierenced pitcher is what the Yankees need.

the difference now is they aren't relying on pettitte and mussina as much as they had to in the past. mussina's going downhill, but he'd still make a decent #5 starter. pettitte is still good enough to be a decent #2 or #3 starter. they've got two future aces in hughes and chamberlain. all they have to do is show a little patience (a rare thing in the yankees' world) and trust their players and coaches to bring out the best in them.

Yankees don't need to go for Santana. They could do with a Joe Blanton.

exactly. between him, haren and bedard there're plenty of other options. the twins are the ones at a disadvantage in this deal, not the yankees, sox or whoever ends up with the best offer.

I'm with sine...I'd much rather keep Ellsbury and our integrity than jsut act to block the Yanks.

I hope the trade takes the same path as the A-Rod/Red Sox trade of 03

thanks. me too. it's crazy how people are still convinced that signing the best player on the market is a surefire way to get a world championship. have we learned nothing from the last two a-rod deals, the zito deal, the beltran deal, the hampton deal, adrian beltre, bonds, etc...?

[cyborg ninja 14]

I'm surprised how little attention Eric Bedard has been getting, sure he pitched roughly 40 less innings than Santana this year, but he still should be pretty good the next coming years.

[sinewave]

I'm surprised how little attention Eric Bedard has been getting, sure he pitched roughly 40 less innings than Santana this year, but he still should be pretty good the next coming years.

i know. he's almost as a good a pitcher as santana while being younger, cheaper and under contract for longer before he's a free-agent.

[Spidey-Bat]

1) The Orioles would never deal him to the Red Sox or Yankees.
2) The Orioles want 4 good, young players for Bedard; Twins only want 3 for Santana.
3) The Orioles will likely end up backing out of a deal this year and then dealing him next year.

[Kingfish]

I just heard that the Orioles want Jered Weaver and Brandon Wood from the Angels for Miguel Tejada.

:up:that would be nice since OC is not on the team anymore

i would like that. Mathis and kendrick both suck ass in offense

dude, omid17, as a fellow angel fan, both of those statements are moronic. Yet many angel fans make them. this is quite simply due to the fact that they don't pay attention to their team. you think weaver and wood for tejada is a good deal? what the hell would give you that idea? that would be a horrible trade for the angels. you just heard a (former) big name like tejada and thought oh well i better give up a great young starter and a top prospect to bring a former big name in?

as for your statements on kendrick, your kidding right? this guy is universally regarded as a stud hitter in waiting. given a full season, he could easily be better than the shell of miguel tejada. kendrick may not be as great a power hitter as cabrera, but he may just be more versatile and useful a player for the angels for many more years. kendrick plays a fine second base, which is much more useful than an overweight third baseman who will wind up a DH in a couple years. honestly, this give up everything to acquire a power hitter is becoming ridiculous.

sorry for the rant, but i just get sick of my own teams fans sounding like they don't have a clue.

[omid17]

dude, omid17, as a fellow angel fan, both of those statements are moronic. Yet many angel fans make them. this is quite simply due to the fact that they don't pay attention to their team. you think weaver and wood for tejada is a good deal? what the hell would give you that idea? that would be a horrible trade for the angels. you just heard a (former) big name like tejada and thought oh well i better give up a great young starter and a top prospect to bring a former big name in?

as for your statements on kendrick, your kidding right? this guy is universally regarded as a stud hitter in waiting. given a full season, he could easily be better than the shell of miguel tejada. kendrick may not be as great a power hitter as cabrera, but he may just be more versatile and useful a player for the angels for many more years. kendrick plays a fine second base, which is much more useful than an overweight third baseman who will wind up a DH in a couple years. honestly, this give up everything to acquire a power hitter is becoming ridiculous.

sorry for the rant, but i just get sick of my own teams fans sounding like they don't have a clue.
I just thought the Angels had enough young pitchers, and they lost OC their SS, getting tejada wouldn't be a bad move

[Spidey-Bat]

The Twins, expected to resume discussions with the Yankees and Red Sox about left-hander Johan Santana on Monday, are considering filing tampering charges against the Yankees because of Hank Steinbrenner's public comments about the pitcher, according to a major-league source. Meanwhile, the Twins also are discussing trades involving closer Joe Nathan, with the Astros being one possible suitor.

I hope the Twins go through with it. Yankees need to learn Hank needs a muzzle.

[Kingfish]

I just thought the Angels had enough young pitchers, and they lost OC their SS, getting tejada wouldn't be a bad move

thats fine, but weigh what your giving up. jered weaver? and brandon wood? not to mention the fact that they don't even want tejada as a SS, they want to move him to third base. which is good, since his defense has gone way down hill. honestly, with the controversies, contract, and general lack of interest, a fair deal for tejada would be something along the lines of santana/saunders and aybar. if the orioles want more than that, screw it. at this stage of his career, tejada just ain't worth it.

beyond that, i'm still curious why you would think so little of howie kendrick.

[sinewave]

Here's some updates from ESPN
All times ET

4:25, from Keith Law • The Rays have traded Elijah Dukes to the Nationals for a player to be named.

3:09 p.m., from Steve Phillips
• There are rumblings that the Pirates could trade left fielder Jason Bay to the Indians for catcher Kelly Shoppach and left-hander Cliff Lee.

• It seems more and more likely that Erik Bedard will get dealt. Suitors are lining up for the ace left-hander.

• Japanese hurler Hiroki Kurada is getting a lot of attention from clubs as they hear the desires of Kyle Lohse and Carlos Silva.

sounds like the nationals are stockpiling talented outfielders with bad attitudes. that's not a bad gamble.

the indians should totally make that deal for bay. they'd be unstoppable in the AL central with that combination of offense and pitching.

1) The Orioles would never deal him to the Red Sox or Yankees.
2) The Orioles want 4 good, young players for Bedard; Twins only want 3 for Santana.
3) The Orioles will likely end up backing out of a deal this year and then dealing him next year.

true. angelos would probably veto any trade that's not completely lopsided in their favor. still, at least teams have non-santana alternatives.

[Jerry!]

they made the playoffs last year. basically it came down to their offense not putting enough runs on the board and the freaky thing with the gnats in cleveland that doomed the yankees. chamberlain is too talented a pitcher to relegate to just 80 innings. he's got the stuff to become an ace, which is much more valuable than a closer. besides, rivera's in that role for at least the next couple of seasons.

the difference now is they aren't relying on pettitte and mussina as much as they had to in the past. mussina's going downhill, but he'd still make a decent #5 starter. pettitte is still good enough to be a decent #2 or #3 starter. they've got two future aces in hughes and chamberlain. all they have to do is show a little patience (a rare thing in the yankees' world) and trust their players and coaches to bring out the best in them.



You have no idea what to expect out of Hughes, Kennedy or Chamberlain, especially Joba, in starting roles full time. How can you say for certain that he is an ace? Same thing with Kennedy. Nothing is for sure with pitching prospects. You do know Joba is very effective out of the bullpen. You keep Joba as set up guy or reliever in the bullpen with Rivera as the closer. Who else do the Yankees have in the bullpen that is any good? That keeps the bullpen strong, strengthens the rotation with a true number 1 in Santana and you have say good bye to an average center fielder and a prospect, boo hoo I guess. Having a solid bullpen is ESSENTIAL. I would say more than anyone else during the championship years, Rivera, individually, had the biggest impact on the Yankees dominance. You cannot underestimate the role of the bullpen, you have to keep it strong. Chamberlain has to be the closer of the future, keep him as the set up man for now.

Let me put it this way, right now do you think the Yankees have the starting pitching to beat the Red Sox? Because thats where the road to the World Series is going to go through next season most likely. With Santana you have the best pitcher, or at least one of the best, for the next 4 or 5 years. The potential of Hughes MAYBE being good is going to stop that? Thats ridiculous logic.

[sinewave]

You have no idea what to expect out of Hughes, Kennedy or Chamberlain, especially Joba, in starting roles full time. How can you say for certain that he is an ace? Same thing with Kennedy. Nothing is for sure with pitching prospects. You do know Joba is very effective out of the bullpen. You keep Joba as set up guy or reliever in the bullpen with Rivera as the closer. Who else do the Yankees have in the bullpen that is any good? That keeps the bullpen strong, strengthens the rotation with a true number 1 in Santana and you have say good bye to an average center fielder and a prospect, boo hoo I guess. Having a solid bullpen is ESSENTIAL. I would say more than anyone else during the championship years, Rivera, individually, had the biggest impact on the Yankees dominance. You cannot underestimate the role of the bullpen, you have to keep it strong. Chamberlain has to be the closer of the future, keep him as the set up man for now.

Let me put it this way, right now do you think the Yankees have the starting pitching to beat the Red Sox? Because thats where the road to the World Series is going to go through next season most likely. With Santana you have the best pitcher, or at least one of the best, for the next 4 or 5 years. The potential of Hughes MAYBE being good is going to stop that? Thats ridiculous logic.

i know the yankees are good at overselling their prospects, but chamberlain has already proven he can dominate at the major league level. hughes has amazing stuff and a great pedigree. kennedy's not at their level, but he projects to be a good #2 or #3 starter. at some point you have to trust your scouting and coaching staff and see what the kids can do. we obviously have two separate views on how to run a successful baseball franchise. for too long the yankees have been trading away their prospects and shelling out cash for expensive veterans who don't always pan out. and what do they have to show for it? they haven't won a world series since '01. they're finally getting back to the organizational attitude that helped them build a dynasty in the mid 90's to early 00's by developing talent and building from within, and now you want them to just forget everything they've been working towards and throw cash at the problem? except it's not much of a problem because they already have a very good pitching staff setup for the next 5-10 years. to answer your question, yes, i think the combination of pitching and offense, they can at least keep up with the red sox and probably beat them.

[NewYorkSpider]

the difference now is they aren't relying on pettitte and mussina as much as they had to in the past. mussina's going downhill, but he'd still make a decent #5 starter. pettitte is still good enough to be a decent #2 or #3 starter. they've got two future aces in hughes and chamberlain. all they have to do is show a little patience (a rare thing in the yankees' world) and trust their players and coaches to bring out the best in them.


The sense of urgency started after they lost the 2001 World Series when they lost Paul O'Neil, Scott Brosius, Tino Martinez and Chuck Knoblauch. They went out and bought Giambi and never really worried about pitching because they had Clemens, Mussina, Pettite and Wells. This came back to haunt them after the 2003 WS when 3 of those pitchers left. They weren't prepared for this. So then they had to go out and get pitchers like Randy Johnson and Kevin Brown who were old as **** and it's all because of getting A-Rod who we didn't need. Sure, they got to the ALCS and were so close to the World Series, but even if they did win the WS, they were still in a horrible pitching situation. That's where Carl Pavano comes in. He was suppose to come in and be a quality pitcher and we all know how that turned out. Ever since then, the pitching hasn't been what it was capable of. It's Cashman's fault for all this. And trying to show patience when a divison rival has just won 2 World Series in 4 years with extremly talented and young players isn't something to sit back on.

[cyborg ninja 14]

1) The Orioles would never deal him to the Red Sox or Yankees.
2) The Orioles want 4 good, young players for Bedard; Twins only want 3 for Santana.
3) The Orioles will likely end up backing out of a deal this year and then dealing him next year.

1. True
2. Really?
3. That does make more sense given that the O's are just dangling him out there to see what his trade value is currently.

[Showtime]

So what's the good word on Santana.

[sinewave]

The sense of urgency started after they lost the 2001 World Series when they lost Paul O'Neil, Scott Brosius, Tino Martinez and Chuck Knoblauch. They went out and bought Giambi and never really worried about pitching because they had Clemens, Mussina, Pettite and Wells. This came back to haunt them after the 2003 WS when 3 of those pitchers left. They weren't prepared for this. So then they had to go out and get pitchers like Randy Johnson and Kevin Brown who were old as **** and it's all because of getting A-Rod who we didn't need. Sure, they got to the ALCS and were so close to the World Series, but even if they did win the WS, they were still in a horrible pitching situation. That's where Carl Pavano comes in. He was suppose to come in and be a quality pitcher and we all know how that turned out. Ever since then, the pitching hasn't been what it was capable of. It's Cashman's fault for all this. And trying to show patience when a divison rival has just won 2 World Series in 4 years with extremly talented and young players isn't something to sit back on.

i agree with all of that except laying the blame solely on cashman. cashman never had full control of baseball operations before this year, so there were a lot of hands in the pie before that. steinbrenner was responsible for a lot of the bad decisions they made during that timeframe. cashman's actually a smart guy, but he's stuck in the unenviable position of having to deal with the impulses of the steinbrenner family (the sons seem like bigger idiots than their dad) and being held accountable to the brutal media and fanbase in that city. it was cashman's idea to rebuild their farm system and not mortgage their future by trading away all their best young players for overpriced veterans. hopefully he can keep his bosses at bay long enough to produce results from that plan.

[NewYorkSpider]

i agree with all of that except laying the blame solely on cashman. cashman never had full control of baseball operations before this year, so there were a lot of hands in the pie before that. steinbrenner was responsible for a lot of the bad decisions they made during that timeframe. cashman's actually a smart guy, but he's stuck in the unenviable position of having to deal with the impulses of the steinbrenner family (the sons seem like bigger idiots than their dad) and being held accountable to the brutal media and fanbase in that city. it was cashman's idea to rebuild their farm system and not mortgage their future by trading away all their best young players for overpriced veterans. hopefully he can keep his bosses at bay long enough to produce results from that plan.

You're right. Geroge Steinbrenner does deserve most of the blame for the Yankees misfortunes. The reason I still would like a decent pitcher is because we have gone the last 4 years without a decent pitching core. Adding another quality starter certainly helps our chances at winning the division. I have faith in our offense to win us games, but when it comes down to winning the World Series you have to have pitching. I WANT to trust the roatation we have now, I guess i'm just a little paranoid that it won't be good. We'll just have to see what happens. We have a long way to go till March.

[Spidey-Bat]

So what's the good word on Santana.

Nothing really new. It still sounds like a Yankee-Red Sox cock-waving contest.

1. True
2. Really?
3. That does make more sense given that the O's are just dangling him out there to see what his trade value is currently.

2. Yes. From what I've read it sounds like it.

BTW, if the Mets and Orioles are close to a deal for Bedard, Orioles might dump some salary on them. Most likely Melvin Mora (who coincidentally was traded from the Mets to the O's in 2000).

[Showtime]

Ha Ha. Good analogy.

[sinewave]

You're right. Geroge Steinbrenner does deserve most of the blame for the Yankees misfortunes. The reason I still would like a decent pitcher is because we have gone the last 4 years without a decent pitching core. Adding another quality starter certainly helps our chances at winning the division. I have faith in our offense to win us games, but when it comes down to winning the World Series you have to have pitching. I WANT to trust the roatation we have now, I guess i'm just a little paranoid that it won't be good. We'll just have to see what happens. We have a long way to go till March.

i understand, but i think you guys will be fine without santana. especially since pettitte re-signed. you might not win it all next year, but those young pitchers are gonna be awesome for a long time starting in the next 2-3 years.

[NewYorkSpider]

i understand, but i think you guys will be fine without santana. especially since pettitte re-signed. you might not win it all next year, but those young pitchers are gonna be awesome for a long time starting in the next 2-3 years.

Like I said before...

Hughes - He's a great pitcher and I trust him, but he can have a sloppy game or two repeatedly.
Chaberlain - We haven't seen him pitch as a starter in the majors, only a reliever.
Kennedy - Has only 3 starts in the majors, he won two of those games against teams with horrible offenses.

Even if it means going half the season with these three and them making a trade before the deadline i would be fine with that. Just so we can see how the season plays out with them.

EDIT: What happens if Mussina and Pettite go off with injuries and these 3 starters don't live up to their expectations. Wang would be all alone trying to carry the pitching. Then you would have to get pitchers who will only go to the 5th inning and our bullpen will be wore down by October.

[Jerry!]

i know the yankees are good at overselling their prospects, but chamberlain has already proven he can dominate at the major league level. hughes has amazing stuff and a great pedigree. kennedy's not at their level, but he projects to be a good #2 or #3 starter. at some point you have to trust your scouting and coaching staff and see what the kids can do. we obviously have two separate views on how to run a successful baseball franchise. for too long the yankees have been trading away their prospects and shelling out cash for expensive veterans who don't always pan out. and what do they have to show for it? they haven't won a world series since '01. they're finally getting back to the organizational attitude that helped them build a dynasty in the mid 90's to early 00's by developing talent and building from within, and now you want them to just forget everything they've been working towards and throw cash at the problem? except it's not much of a problem because they already have a very good pitching staff setup for the next 5-10 years. to answer your question, yes, i think the combination of pitching and offense, they can at least keep up with the red sox and probably beat them.

Chamberlain is dominate on the major league level OUT OF THE BULLPEN. You have to keep the bullpen strong, just taking him out and sliding him into a starting slot and thinking everything is just going to continue like it was when he was coming out of the bullpen won't happen. Look I completely understand the way you would want to run a baseball organization, I really don't disagree, wait for your prospects to mature and go from there to building up the team. But thats just not the way the Yankees work now. And if they aren't going to do it that way, then they should get Santana. That is their best bet. They don't have to trade away both Hughes and Kennedy. Trading just one of them shouldn't be a problem.

Right now they don't have the pitching to beat the Red Sox, not even close. If the Red Sox acquire Santana, you may as well pencil them into the World Series. No matter if they have to give up Ellsbury or not, which I think is ridiculous if the Red Sox say that is the problem in the trade.

[NewYorkSpider]

It seems Ben Sheets could be another pitcher out there for teams to be intrested in. The Mariners are the only team to have spoken with the Brewers about him, but his name could surface in the coming days for other teams.

[Spidey-Bat]

Mets could be the favorites to get Bedard if the Dodgers choose to go after Miguel Cabrera instead. Unless Minaya gets crafty (something he's pretty much incapable of doing) and gets a 3rd team involved, they probably won't get anyone better than Livan Hernandez. If they have another October of nothing, he's definitely gone. You won't see me shedding any tears if he does. Him and his scouts are the sole reason the Mets can't get a frontline starter this off-season.

[Jerry!]

But the tears of a clown always amuse me. Damn.

[Spidey-Bat]

But the tears of a clown always amuse me. Damn.

Me too. That's why I'm so happy whenever the Bears lose.

[sinewave]

Like I said before...

Hughes - He's a great pitcher and I trust him, but he can have a sloppy game or two repeatedly.
Chaberlain - We haven't seen him pitch as a starter in the majors, only a reliever.
Kennedy - Has only 3 starts in the majors, he won two of those games against teams with horrible offenses.

Even if it means going half the season with these three and them making a trade before the deadline i would be fine with that. Just so we can see how the season plays out with them.

EDIT: What happens if Mussina and Pettite go off with injuries and these 3 starters don't live up to their expectations. Wang would be all alone trying to carry the pitching. Then you would have to get pitchers who will only go to the 5th inning and our bullpen will be wore down by October.

that's a worst case scenario. any team would struggle if two of their starters went down and the rest didn't live up to their expectations. except this is the yankees and they'd just go out and buy some new starters because they can afford it, just like the red sox and any other major market club. chances are they'll be fine. they can go for santana all they want. i just want the sox to stay away.

Chamberlain is dominate on the major league level OUT OF THE BULLPEN. You have to keep the bullpen strong, just taking him out and sliding him into a starting slot and thinking everything is just going to continue like it was when he was coming out of the bullpen won't happen. Look I completely understand the way you would want to run a baseball organization, I really don't disagree, wait for your prospects to mature and go from there to building up the team. But thats just not the way the Yankees work now. And if they aren't going to do it that way, then they should get Santana. That is their best bet. They don't have to trade away both Hughes and Kennedy. Trading just one of them shouldn't be a problem.

Right now they don't have the pitching to beat the Red Sox, not even close. If the Red Sox acquire Santana, you may as well pencil them into the World Series. No matter if they have to give up Ellsbury or not, which I think is ridiculous if the Red Sox say that is the problem in the trade.

why are we even debating this? chamberlain is moving to the rotation whether they trade for santana or not. the yankees have already said that. i still don't get why you don't think he wouldn't be a good starter.

[Spidey-Bat]

I hope Minnesota ends up not trading him. The whole Dice-K phenomenon was so ****ing annoying last year the last thing I want to see is a million reporters at the Red Sox ST video taping a pitcher throwing BP and fielding dribblers again.

[Kingfish]

I hope Minnesota ends up not trading him.

i actually really hope that happens as well.

[sinewave]

I hope Minnesota ends up not trading him. The whole Dice-K phenomenon was so ****ing annoying last year the last thing I want to see is a million reporters at the Red Sox ST video taping a pitcher throwing BP and fielding dribblers again.

ditto.

[Jerry!]

Me too. That's why I'm so happy whenever the Bears lose.

Except I don't cry when they lose and call for the head of the coach after every game. I stopped being emotionally invested in the team once it was obvious the o line was pretty much done for their careers and Benson, without Jones, was useless. Unless you're talking about other Bears fans in general, on that I would agree, the post game talk shows after the game is usually hilarious with people getting all mad and worked up. I just watch the games for Hester now, pretty much because thats all they got and he is the most exciting player in the league.

[Spidey-Bat]

Mets are very, very close to getting Erik Bedard. If my source is correct they are overpaying though. They'll be giving up Humber, Heilman, Mulvey, Church or Gomez (most likely Gomez), possibly Fernando Martinez (but not likely). The Orioles may be dumping Melvin Mora on them as well.

[Dark Donnie]

Report: 'Mets are close on Erik Bedard'

WFAN radio in New York reports that "there's news floating around that the Mets are close on Erik Bedard."

The Bedard rumors have picked up steam since he reportedly told the Orioles that he's not interested in working out a long-term contract extension. There's some speculation that the Orioles could ask the Mets to take Miguel Tejada and his contract back in a Bedard trade, but it's unclear where Tejada would play in New York. It remains to be seen if the Mets have the pieces to pull off a trade for Bedard even after dealing Lastings Milledge. Dec. 3 - 8:57 pm et
Source: Metsblog.com

[Spidey-Bat]

The Twins are reportedly talking to more teams about Santana now. The Yankees and Red Sox (to a lesser degree) screwed themselves by reducing it to a cock-waving contest. This could possibly put the Mets-Bedard deal on hold if the Twins would be willing to accept less from the Mets since they have the bonus of getting him out of the league.

[Jerry!]

I would call it a "who has their head farther up their own ass" contest.

[Jerry!]

Double post. ****ing Batman forums.

[Spidey-Bat]

Yankees and Twins are apparently meeting tonight. What the **** is going on with them? I hope nothing happens. I would vomit if I saw the Yankees got Santana tomorrow morning.

[Fran]

The Yankees will lose the cock-waving contest.

They get hard when it doesn't count :down

[Spidey-Bat]

Nothing will probably happen. Twins will probably be taking other offers unless the Yankees blow them out. Santana has to agree to a deal. Yankees could make the biggest one but don't know if he and his agent are available to negotiate now.

[NewYorkSpider]

Johan Santana Update:

I have just heard that the Twins wanted a deal that consisted of Hughes, Cabrera, Horne, and Jackson from the Yankees and they said "no". The Twins have asked the Red Sox to create a new deal that would have Lester in it.

There was another rumor going around that the Twins wanted Ian Kennedy in their deal and that the Yankees said "no".

And the third rumor I've heard is that the Yankees and Twins were "very close on a trade"

Believe what you want to out of those 3.

Edit: The top 2 rumors have been confirmed by another source. The second deal came first, then the Twins asked for a 4-1 swap. Yankees immediatly declined.

Edit again: I just got word that the discussions are not yet closed off.

[NewYorkSpider]

Johan Santana Update #2:

An unconfirmed report has said that the Red Sox were looking at Johan Santana's medical records. This could mean that the two parties have agreed or the Red Sox just wanted to look at them.

Edit: The Twins have been allowed to look at Lester's medical records. This is looking very good for the Red Sox if they included Lester in one of the deals.

[NewYorkSpider]

If my instincts are correct, the Boston Red Sox will announce their new pitcher Johan Santana tommorow. It seems very likely that a deal has taken place.

[Jerry!]

Then the Red Sox have come as close to as unstoppable as any team has in recent memory. Santana on the Yankees would have put them around where the Red Sox are right now. Probably close, but not quite on the level of Boston. But Santana on the Red Sox? That puts them in an entire different league than the rest of the AL.

[NewYorkSpider]

I'm pretty sure that a deal has taken place, but I could be wrong. If it is true, god help the rest of the AL.

[Jerry!]

Whoever they gave up, Ellsbury, Lester, it was worth it. They are going for the throat, they are shooting for a dynasty. If they got him, Red Sox fans won't be crying about Ellsbury for long.

[NewYorkSpider]

This is from Tim Brown on Yahoo Sports.



Late Monday night, according to a Red Sox source, the team handed over medical records for left-hand pitcher Jon Lester, the critical piece in a four-for-one trade that would bring Santana for Lester, Coco Crisp (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6983/;_ylt=AoHZyEsQPz5KM35BsGjCqfE8R9MF), minor-league right-hander Justin Masterson and another minor leaguer. Lester returned to the big leagues in late July after recovering from lymphoma, and was the winning pitcher in Game 4 of the World Series, the clincher for the Red Sox.
A Red Sox official said he was "cautiously optimistic" the club could complete the deal for Santana, putting the two-time Cy Young Award winner next to Josh Beckett (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6403/;_ylt=AicA_klZQHUwU0_BzIThyPg8R9MF), Curt Schilling (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/4267/;_ylt=Akncv9s2SKGI3_0w5QF04F08R9MF), Daisuke Matsuzaka (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7906/;_ylt=AsO3KevwoM0Z31U1mdxhhS88R9MF) and, probably, Clay Buchholz (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/8090/;_ylt=Apk8yRoQdFc4f.qb8EZt5fQ8R9MF) in the Red Sox rotation

[NewYorkSpider]

Thought you might like this article Jerry.

White_Sox (http://www.palmbeachpost.com/marlins/content/sports/epaper/2007/12/04/a12c_marlins_1204.html?cxtype=rss&cxsvc=7&cxcat=46)

[Jerry!]

Holy dog ****, if that is indeed the deal then Red Sox fans should be overjoyed. There are times where you just have to go with your brain and not your heart. Lester, he is a good guy, he is a great story, he came back from cancer and won the deciding game of the World Series. It is nothing short of amazing what he has overcome to make it back.

But the Red Sox have a chance to leave the rest of the baseball world in a cloud of dust with this move, and when it comes down to it, Lester is the odd man out. The numbers just don't balance out, Santana is simply too good to pass up. We all have to remember, as much as we don't want to at times, that this is a business. The Red Sox have the biggest business opportunity right now out of everyone and should act on it, just as the Yankees should have.

[Dark Donnie]

Twins got robbed

Report: Twins, Red Sox turn in with deal near

The Twins and Red Sox have concluded trade talks for the night with a deal likely within reach, the Boston Globe reports.

The Globe says there are indications that the deal would be Jon Lester, Coco Crisp, Jed Lowrie and Justin Masterson for Johan Santana. ESPN's Buster Olney also believes that's the package. Crisp doesn't seem like a great fit for a Twins club that figures to have little chance of contending next year, though as outstanding as he is defensively, he is being undervalued as a trade property. The Twins would also be getting a potential No. 2 starter in Lester, a possible No. 3 or a closer in Masterson and a likely starting second baseman in Lowrie. Phil Hughes is a better bet than all of them, but the Twins must not rate him as highly as many do. Dec. 4 - 3:34 am et

[Dark Donnie]

Mets close to getting Bedard for Church, Humbler, Heilman, and a player to be named later

http://mlb-rumors.blogspot.com/2007/12/report-mets-close-to-acquiring-bedard.html

[Dark Donnie]

Dodgers done pursuing Andruw

Believing the center fielder to be out of his price range, Dodgers GM Ned Colletti termed talks with Andruw Jones dead on Monday night.

"We are nowhere close to a deal," Colletti said. "I had the intention of making an offer, but as it stands, it would have been foolish to do so." Obviously, agent Scott Boras is still asking for the moon. The Dodgers are also telling people they're out of contention for Aaron Rowand. They're not fooling anyone in pretending they don't have the money. Dec. 4 - 12:39 am et
Source: Los Angeles Daily News

[strikezone89]

DAMN the yankees need to get there head outta their asses and sign some good pitchers already

[Showtime]

If the Red Sox pick up Santana without having to give up Ellsbury, unloading Coco Crisp, and only giving up Lester and some prospects, then that is a steal to me.

[Dark Donnie]

If the Red Sox pick up Santana without having to give up Ellsbury, unloading Coco Crisp, and only giving up Lester and some prospects, then that is a steal to me.

Definately a steal....I have no clue why the Twins would do it

[Albiceleste]

Dodgers done pursuing Andruw

Believing the center fielder to be out of his price range, Dodgers GM Ned Colletti termed talks with Andruw Jones dead on Monday night.

"We are nowhere close to a deal," Colletti said. "I had the intention of making an offer, but as it stands, it would have been foolish to do so." Obviously, agent Scott Boras is still asking for the moon. The Dodgers are also telling people they're out of contention for Aaron Rowand. They're not fooling anyone in pretending they don't have the money. Dec. 4 - 12:39 am et
Source: Los Angeles Daily News

Good I don't want to see Andruw in a Dodger uniform

[Superman79]

If the Red Sox pick up Santana without having to give up Ellsbury, unloading Coco Crisp, and only giving up Lester and some prospects, then that is a steal to me.

Amen! THough if we're giving up Jed Lowrie I am going to be a bit disappinted...he was supposed to be the next Nomah (pre-injury that is, and with better accuracy) :csad:

[Ben Urich]

****! :csad:

[Showtime]

Definately a steal....I have no clue why the Twins would do it

Not sure either. I don't understand why they asked the Yankees to up the anti on their deal to the extreme but would accept a lesser deal from the Red Sox. Something doesn't add up to me.

[Showtime]

Amen! THough if we're giving up Jed Lowrie I am going to be a bit disappinted...he was supposed to be the next Nomah (pre-injury that is, and with better accuracy) :csad:

He's pretty much yesterday's news prospect wise at this point, because of said injury.

[Superman79]

He's pretty much yesterday's news prospect wise at this point, because of said injury.

Oh, I meant Nomah's injury...I didn't realize Jed got hurt too...then Maybe I'm ok with it.

[sinewave]

if the yankees don't get santana i guarantee they'll go after one of oakland's starters, either haren, blanton or harden, especially if the sox sign santana. they'll be freaking out about the sox's rotation, and rightly so, so they might give them the deal the twins were asking for, hughes, melky, and either kennedy or a prospect like jackson or horne.

[Ben Urich]

**** it, trade A-Rod for Santana.

Wait, I'm joking. I think. :huh:

:o

[Superman79]

**** it, trade A-Rod for Santana.

Wait, I'm joking. I think. :huh:

:o

That'd be the best thing the Yanks could do. I'm tellin yah, A-Rod is cursed.

[Showtime]

Oh, I meant Nomah's injury...I didn't realize Jed got hurt too...then Maybe I'm ok with it.

I thought he had some issues last year?

[Superman79]

I thought he had some issues last year?

Not that I know of...hmm...


**wonders off to Google**

[Showtime]

Doesn't look like it either. Who am I thinking of?????

[Superman79]

Doesn't look like it either. Who am I thinking of?????

um...injured prospest?? um...dunno...

[Showtime]

...but now I need to know. I think I am delirious. I have an excuse. I swear.

[Dark Donnie]

Report: Twins, Red Sox ready to resume talks

The Boston Herald reports that the Twins and Red Sox are expected to "resume serious negotiations" Tuesday morning, with Minnesota said to be deciding between two different trade packages for Johan Santana.

One package is reportedly Jon Lester, Coco Crisp, Justin Masterson and Jed Lowrie, while the other is believed to be Jacoby Ellsbury, Lowrie and Masterson. The latter would be seem to be a better long-term fit for the Twins, but Minnesota apparently likes Lester an awful lot after being satisfied with his health following a Monday night look at his medical records. Dec. 4 - 11:01 am et

[Showtime]

I am suprised the Twins are so high on Lester.

[sinewave]

I am suprised the Twins are so high on Lester.

i guess they value pitching more than offense at this point. lester's proven he can be successful at the major league level, he's still young and he's always projected as a front of the rotation starter.

[Superman79]

i guess they value pitching more than offense at this point. lester's proven he can be successful at the major league level, he's still young and he's always projected as a front of the rotation starter.

Yeah, what sine said...:D

[Showtime]

i guess they value pitching more than offense at this point. lester's proven he can be successful at the major league level, he's still young and he's always projected as a front of the rotation starter.

Watching him the past couple seaons, he is really a 5-inning pitcher who has a tendency go high in the counts.

[Excel]

Lester is nasty; and a lefty.

[sinewave]

Watching him the past couple seaons, he is really a 5-inning pitcher who has a tendency go high in the counts.

yeah, he's definitely got some issues to work out, but the sample size is still pretty small to get a good idea of how he'll turn out. he didn't have his full stamina last season due to his recovery from the chemo. once he works out the kinks he should be a good 6-7 inning guy.

[Showtime]

Lester is a lefty.

Fixed.

[Showtime]

yeah, he's definitely got some issues to work out, but the sample size is still pretty small to get a good idea of how he'll turn out. he didn't have his full stamina last season due to his recovery from the chemo. once he works out the kinks he should be a good 6-7 inning guy.

I rather have a proven winner than a question mark any day.

[sinewave]

I rather have a proven winner than a question mark any day.

sure, but a young pitcher with a lot of upside plus some other good young players to fill different roles isn't a bad thing to build off. it's tough to find a suitable replacement for the best pitcher in the game. looks like the twins are trying to build for the long haul, like the indians did.

[sinewave]

I rather have a proven winner than a question mark any day.

sure, but a young pitcher with a lot of upside plus some other good young players to fill different roles isn't a bad thing to build off. it's tough to find a suitable replacement for the best pitcher in the game. looks like the twins are trying to build for the long haul, like the indians did.

[cyborg ninja 14]

From Amy Nelson of the ESPN rumor-mill blog thing. This is just flat out wacky.

"Brian Anderson hasn't stepped on a big league mound since since May 2005, when he was with Kansas City, but the left-hander is attempting a comeback. The Rockies reportedly have interest, and Anderson also pitched an NL manager for a job at the hotel bar last night. He's working out twice a day and expects to be throwing off a mound by mid-December. After having Tommy John surgery in July 2006, Anderson feels he has unfinished business left and doesn't want to walk away from the game. He's currently in Nashville with his cable access sports show, broadcasting a half-hour live every day."

:huh:

[Spidey-Bat]

How are the Red Sox close to Santana with such a ****ty offer?

[Jerry!]

sure, but a young pitcher with a lot of upside plus some other good young players to fill different roles isn't a bad thing to build off. it's tough to find a suitable replacement for the best pitcher in the game. looks like the twins are trying to build for the long haul, like the indians did.

Here is the hard reality. Lester is probably going to have more problems with cancer in his career, and if/when that happens, you may as well forget about whatever potential he may have had. He may become, MAY become, a good 6-7 inning guy fully healthy, but Santana is the best pitcher in the game and probably will be for the next 4-5 years. The best that Lester can be probably isn't half of what Santana is. You have 2 aces on your team, one in which looks to become the best, the other is the best. You have to go with your brain over your heart. That might sound harsh, but it is a business. Getting Santana with the team Boston already has is the closest thing to guaranteeing another World Series win as they can get.

[Spidey-Bat]

I agree that saying you'd rather keep Lester than give him up for Santana is foolish (I would be willing to give up JOSE REYES for Santana). But his cancer isn't much of a factor. Twins shouldn't even consider him since the Red Sox have Buchholz.

[Dark Donnie]

Report: Angels join hunt for Santana

According to the Providence Journal, the Angels have made a late bid for Johan Santana, with Jered Weaver likely involved as bait.

The Red Sox and Twins have yet to resume talking today, though WFAN's Sweeney Murti thinks a deal remains close. ESPN's Peter Gammons indicated that the Twins still aren't certain whether they like the Jacoby Ellsbury or Jon Lester/Coco Crisp package better. Meanwhile, the Yankees have no intention of changing their current offer, a team executive told the Journal News. Dec. 4 - 2:43 pm et
Source: Providence Journal

Phillies, Howard to discuss long-term deal




The Phillies and Ryan Howard's agent, Casey Close, will resume discussing a long-term deal this week.

Howard, who made $900,000 last season, is still a year away from qualifying for arbitration and four from free agency. He's probably going to earn $1.5 million or so next year unless a long-term deal can be worked out. Jayson Stark thinks Howard could get an Albert Pujols-type deal (seven years, $100 million), though he's not nearly the long-term bet Pujols was when he got his big contract. Dec. 4 - 1:36 pm et
Source: ESPN.com

[Dark Donnie]

Report: Angels join hunt for Santana

According to the Providence Journal, the Angels have made a late bid for Johan Santana, with Jered Weaver likely involved as bait.

The Red Sox and Twins have yet to resume talking today, though WFAN's Sweeney Murti thinks a deal remains close. ESPN's Peter Gammons indicated that the Twins still aren't certain whether they like the Jacoby Ellsbury or Jon Lester/Coco Crisp package better. Meanwhile, the Yankees have no intention of changing their current offer, a team executive told the Journal News. Dec. 4 - 2:43 pm et
Source: Providence Journal

Phillies, Howard to discuss long-term deal

The Phillies and Ryan Howard's agent, Casey Close, will resume discussing a long-term deal this week.

Howard, who made $900,000 last season, is still a year away from qualifying for arbitration and four from free agency. He's probably going to earn $1.5 million or so next year unless a long-term deal can be worked out. Jayson Stark thinks Howard could get an Albert Pujols-type deal (seven years, $100 million), though he's not nearly the long-term bet Pujols was when he got his big contract. Dec. 4 - 1:36 pm et
Source: ESPN.com

[sinewave]

I rather have a proven winner than a question mark any day.

sure, but a young pitcher with a lot of upside plus some other good young players to fill different roles isn't a bad thing to build off. it's tough to find a suitable replacement for the best pitcher in the game. looks like the twins are trying to build for the long haul, like the indians did.

[sinewave]

Here is the hard reality. Lester is probably going to have more problems with cancer in his career, and if/when that happens, you may as well forget about whatever potential he may have had. He may become, MAY become, a good 6-7 inning guy fully healthy, but Santana is the best pitcher in the game and probably will be for the next 4-5 years. The best that Lester can be probably isn't half of what Santana is. You have 2 aces on your team, one in which looks to become the best, the other is the best. You have to go with your brain over your heart. That might sound harsh, but it is a business. Getting Santana with the team Boston already has is the closest thing to guaranteeing another World Series win as they can get.

you can't say his cancer is "probably" going to come back because there's not way to predict something like that. i do agree that lester will never equal santana's value, but that's why the other players are involved in the deal, to try and make up the difference in quality. there's almost no chance the twins will re-sign santana so they have to try and get the most value in return. apparently they think highly of lester, and who knows, he could turn out to be one of the top pitchers in the AL over the next 10-12 years. he could also be league average or worse. there's no way to know that for sure. if they get crisp, lowrie and another pitcher they'll gain a good defensive CF to help protect their pitchers, a promising young middle-infielder and another potential member of the rotation. that's filling one hole (starting pitching) with two cheap, young, talented players, another hole at 2B and another at CF. that may not sound like an even deal to you, and i'm not saying it is, but it could help make the twins a more balanced team while freeing up a ton of cash to help fill whatever other holes exist. for a small market team like the twins, financial flexibility is huge, and not investing $20+ million over the next 6 years in one player is going to help them stay competitive by allowing them the freedom build a more complete team.

[Showtime]

sure, but a young pitcher with a lot of upside plus some other good young players to fill different roles isn't a bad thing to build off. it's tough to find a suitable replacement for the best pitcher in the game. looks like the twins are trying to build for the long haul, like the indians did.

I mean it's a good move for a team like the Twins, but at the same time, it's why a team like the Twins is usually on the cusp of the playoffs or getting knocked out in the 1st round.

[sinewave]

I mean it's a good move for a team like the Twins, but at the same time, it's why a team like the Twins is usually on the cusp of the playoffs or getting knocked out in the 1st round.

yep, it's the dilemma of being a small-market team. once their best players are free agents, they usually can't afford to re-sign them and field a winning team at the same time. but plenty of teams like the a's and indians have proven you can still be successful by scouting and drafting good players, making smart trades and then filling in the rest of the holes with cheap talent. it takes a smart front office and patience from the ownership and the fans to make that happen, though, and a lot of teams just don't have that combination. there was plenty of outrage in cleveland when they traded away bartolo colon, who was one of the best pitchers in the league at the time, for prospects, but all three of those prospects have been successful in the bigs, though not all of them with cleveland, and they made it deeper into to the playoffs last year than the yankees.

[Jerry!]

you can't say his cancer is "probably" going to come back because there's not way to predict something like that. i do agree that lester will never equal santana's value, but that's why the other players are involved in the deal, to try and make up the difference in quality. there's almost no chance the twins will re-sign santana so they have to try and get the most value in return. apparently they think highly of lester, and who knows, he could turn out to be one of the top pitchers in the AL over the next 10-12 years. he could also be league average or worse. there's no way to know that for sure. if they get crisp, lowrie and another pitcher they'll gain a good defensive CF to help protect their pitchers, a promising young middle-infielder and another potential member of the rotation. that's filling one hole (starting pitching) with two cheap, young, talented players, another hole at 2B and another at CF. that may not sound like an even deal to you, and i'm not saying it is, but it could help make the twins a more balanced team while freeing up a ton of cash to help fill whatever other holes exist. for a small market team like the twins, financial flexibility is huge, and not investing $20+ million over the next 6 years in one player is going to help them stay competitive by allowing them the freedom build a more complete team.

And thats good for an organization like the Twins who are unloading their stars. I'm not really arguing that, even though I still think its pretty much grand theft auto and the Twins should have asked for more. What I don't get is Red Sox fans being against this trade. Explain that part of it to me. You aren't going to convince anyone that Lester is about to become one of the AL's best pitchers, that isn't happening. You can try and convince yourself of that all you want, but you know what you are getting in Santana. I don't know why you would willingly pass the opportunity up to get him for what the Twins want. Thats the part of it that makes no sense to me whatsoever. And stop saying "We don't want to be the Yankees." That excuse is bull****, you got a chance to start a dynasty with a move like this and the excuse to not make the move is basically "We worry about what other people think about us"? Because thats all it really is.

[Spidey-Bat]

Yankees sound like they are out of the running for Santana. Angels may have given up on Miguel Cabrera and are setting their sights on Santana. Dodgers now are apparently close to a deal for Bedard.

Everything changes by the hour so I don't know what to believe anymore.

[cyborg ninja 14]

Anyone else doubting that all this Santana nonsense will lead to anything? The Red Sox are getting by with an uneven amount of trade value, yet the Yanks who have seemingly the better deal for Twins, can't coax crazy Hank to give in. Now the Angels suddenly want in? Yikes.

[cyborg ninja 14]

Consider a rotation featuring Johan and Beckett, :wow:

[cyborg ninja 14]

Anyone else doubting that all this Santana nonsense will lead to anything? The Red Sox are getting by with an uneven amount of trade value, yet the Yanks who have seemingly the better deal for Twins, can't coax crazy Hank to give in. Now the Angels suddenly want in? Yikes:dry:

[sinewave]

And thats good for an organization like the Twins who are unloading their stars. I'm not really arguing that, even though I still think its pretty much grand theft auto and the Twins should have asked for more. What I don't get is Red Sox fans being against this trade. Explain that part of it to me. You aren't going to convince anyone that Lester is about to become one of the AL's best pitchers, that isn't happening. You can try and convince yourself of that all you want, but you know what you are getting in Santana. I don't know why you would willingly pass the opportunity up to get him for what the Twins want. Thats the part of it that makes no sense to me whatsoever. And stop saying "We don't want to be the Yankees." That excuse is bull****, you got a chance to start a dynasty with a move like this and the excuse to not make the move is basically "We worry about what other people think about us"? Because thats all it really is.

i guess it's because the sox have proven they can win without santana. they don't need him. will he make them a better team? probably, but that kind of gluttony is a huge turn-off for me. there's always the chance that he gets injured and is never the same pitcher again. that's not likely, but it's a possibility. you may be sick of hearing "we don't want to be the yankees", but it's true. the sox fans have been very vocal over the years about their disdain for the way the yankees throw their money around and stockpile great players just because they can afford it. we'd be hypocrites if we decided it's ok for the sox to do it now that they're in a position to. like i've said before, their starting pitching is already their biggest strength and they'll be subtracting vaulable young players at key positions like CF and 2B/SS over the next 10 years or so. it's just not a deal i agree with, but if they do it, oh well, at least i'm on record as not being for it.

[Dark Donnie]

Report: Orioles, Dodgers may have Bedard deal

WFAN is reporting on a possible trade of Erik Bedard to the Dodgers for Matt Kemp and Jonathan Broxton.

ESPN is reporting that the two sides are close. It's a fair return, though we wouldn't be surprised to see the Orioles hold out for a fairly valuable third piece. Broxton would close in Baltimore, while Kemp would be an option both in center and left. Dec. 4 - 3:09 pm et

[Dark Donnie]

Report: Red Sox, Twins near Santana deal

According to ESPN's Peter Gammons, the Red Sox and Twins are close to finalizing a Johan Santana trade after Boston added Ryan Kalish to the mix.

Gammons says it'd be a 5-for-1, and with Kalish in the deal, it only makes sense that the Twins would be taking Jon Lester, Coco Crisp, Jed Lowrie and Justin Masterson. If Jacoby Ellsbury was involved, the Twins probably wouldn't be asking for the additional center field prospect. Like Lowrie and Masterson, Kalish ranks comfortably among Boston's top 10 prospects. He is much further away from the majors than the others. Dec. 4 - 3:47 pm et

[Spidey-Bat]

I don't buy that deal for Bedard. It sounds too little.

As for Santana, I don't see this ending today.

[omid17]

I don't buy that deal for Bedard. It sounds too little.

As for Santana, I don't see this ending today.agreed, wow can't believe Angels jumped in the last minute

[sinewave]

agreed, wow can't believe Angels jumped in the last minute

if i were running the twins i'd jump at the angels' offer of kendrick, wood, adenhart and either mathis or willits. they'd fill their holes at 2B, 3B and C or CF with very good young players who could be all-stars and should be able to jump in and help them win right away, and they'd a get a pretty good pitching prospect in adenhart. man, i'd much rather see santana with the angels over the sox or yankees.

[Jerry!]

i guess it's because the sox have proven they can win without santana. they don't need him. will he make them a better team? probably, but that kind of gluttony is a huge turn-off for me. there's always the chance that he gets injured and is never the same pitcher again. that's not likely, but it's a possibility. you may be sick of hearing "we don't want to be the yankees", but it's true. the sox fans have been very vocal over the years about their disdain for the way the yankees throw their money around and stockpile great players just because they can afford it. we'd be hypocrites if we decided it's ok for the sox to do it now that they're in a position to. like i've said before, their starting pitching is already their biggest strength and they'll be subtracting vaulable young players at key positions like CF and 2B/SS over the next 10 years or so. it's just not a deal i agree with, but if they do it, oh well, at least i'm on record as not being for it.

Probably? Wanting to start a dynasty is gluttony? What exactly do you want? The Red Sox are already like the Yankees in that respect but its just they are doing it much better than the Yankees. The whole circus with Dice K should have already proved that. They've already become like the Yankees, and who cares? It worked didn't it? And now this with Santana. Its not gluttony, its just an extremely wise move. You want an average center fielder, a pitcher with cancer and a few prospects for the best pitcher in the game? Its on the Twins to demand more, not the Red Sox. If the Twins want to be that dumb, let them. You can never, never have too much starting pitching. They will probably be keeping Bucholz and Ellsbury so whats the big deal? Its not depleted anything. How come theres a chance that Santana all of a sudden gets a career changing injury once he is traded and there isn't a chance (or you can't predict because its against your rules) that Lester is just an average pitcher and the prospects amount to jack ****?

[Jerry!]

i guess it's because the sox have proven they can win without santana. they don't need him. will he make them a better team? probably, but that kind of gluttony is a huge turn-off for me. there's always the chance that he gets injured and is never the same pitcher again. that's not likely, but it's a possibility. you may be sick of hearing "we don't want to be the yankees", but it's true. the sox fans have been very vocal over the years about their disdain for the way the yankees throw their money around and stockpile great players just because they can afford it. we'd be hypocrites if we decided it's ok for the sox to do it now that they're in a position to. like i've said before, their starting pitching is already their biggest strength and they'll be subtracting vaulable young players at key positions like CF and 2B/SS over the next 10 years or so. it's just not a deal i agree with, but if they do it, oh well, at least i'm on record as not being for it.

Probably? Wanting to start a dynasty is gluttony? What exactly do you want? The Red Sox are already like the Yankees in that respect but its just they are doing it much better than the Yankees. The whole circus with Dice K should have already proved that. They've already become like the Yankees, and who cares? It worked didn't it? And now this with Santana. Its not gluttony, its just an extremely wise move. You want an average center fielder, a pitcher with cancer and a few prospects for the best pitcher in the game? Its on the Twins to demand more, not the Red Sox. If the Twins want to be that dumb, let them. You can never, never have too much starting pitching. They will probably be keeping Bucholz and Ellsbury so whats the big deal? Its not depleted anything. How come theres a chance that Santana all of a sudden gets a career changing injury once he is traded and there isn't a chance (or you can't predict because its against your rules) that Lester is just an average pitcher and the prospects amount to jack ****?

[Jerry!]

i guess it's because the sox have proven they can win without santana. they don't need him. will he make them a better team? probably, but that kind of gluttony is a huge turn-off for me. there's always the chance that he gets injured and is never the same pitcher again. that's not likely, but it's a possibility. you may be sick of hearing "we don't want to be the yankees", but it's true. the sox fans have been very vocal over the years about their disdain for the way the yankees throw their money around and stockpile great players just because they can afford it. we'd be hypocrites if we decided it's ok for the sox to do it now that they're in a position to. like i've said before, their starting pitching is already their biggest strength and they'll be subtracting vaulable young players at key positions like CF and 2B/SS over the next 10 years or so. it's just not a deal i agree with, but if they do it, oh well, at least i'm on record as not being for it.

Probably? Wanting to start a dynasty is gluttony? What exactly do you want? The Red Sox are already like the Yankees in that respect but its just they are doing it much better than the Yankees. The whole circus with Dice K should have already proved that. They've already become like the Yankees, and who cares? It worked didn't it? And now this with Santana. Its not gluttony, its just an extremely wise move. You want an average center fielder, a pitcher with cancer and a few prospects for the best pitcher in the game? Its on the Twins to demand more, not the Red Sox. If the Twins want to be that dumb, let them. You can never, never have too much starting pitching. They will probably be keeping Bucholz and Ellsbury so whats the big deal? Its not depleted anything. How come theres a chance that Santana all of a sudden gets a career changing injury once he is traded and there isn't a chance (or you can't predict because its against your rules) that Lester is just an average pitcher and the prospects amount to jack ****?

[Superman79]

i guess it's because the sox have proven they can win without santana. they don't need him. will he make them a better team? probably, but that kind of gluttony is a huge turn-off for me. there's always the chance that he gets injured and is never the same pitcher again. that's not likely, but it's a possibility. you may be sick of hearing "we don't want to be the yankees", but it's true. the sox fans have been very vocal over the years about their disdain for the way the yankees throw their money around and stockpile great players just because they can afford it. we'd be hypocrites if we decided it's ok for the sox to do it now that they're in a position to. like i've said before, their starting pitching is already their biggest strength and they'll be subtracting vaulable young players at key positions like CF and 2B/SS over the next 10 years or so. it's just not a deal i agree with, but if they do it, oh well, at least i'm on record as not being for it.

Seconded. 100% :up:

[Fran]

Tigers are in talks with Marlins about trading Andrew Miller, Maybin and another prospect (or Nate Robertson :o) for Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis.

[Superman79]

Tigers are in talks with Marlins about trading Andrew Miller, Maybin and another prospect (or Nate Robertson :o) for Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis.

now THAT could be interesting...

[Jerry!]

Wow I really don't understand Red Sox fans. You're in a position for your GM to make a move that pretty much is the potential beginning of something fans of previous generations could only dream about and here you are saying "Eh, we don't need Santana, meh, he probably makes us better but who cares?" You want to talk about arrogance and the Yankee fans? Well here you go, I name this exhibit 1A evidence of arrogance: Red Sox fans. I would love to be a fan of team in the position of the Red Sox, as I'm sure a lot of other baseball fans would be.

But instead the rest of us usually get deals like "2 unnamed prospects for Carlos Quentin". It may as well have read "2 unnamed prospects for 1 unnamed prospect" because I have never heard of that guy. And then the GM of the team you root for goes on TV and says "We are being very aggressive." Right.

[sinewave]

Probably? Wanting to start a dynasty is gluttony? What exactly do you want? The Red Sox are already like the Yankees in that respect but its just they are doing it much better than the Yankees. The whole circus with Dice K should have already proved that. They've already become like the Yankees, and who cares? It worked didn't it? And now this with Santana. Its not gluttony, its just an extremely wise move. You want an average center fielder, a pitcher with cancer and a few prospects for the best pitcher in the game? Its on the Twins to demand more, not the Red Sox. If the Twins want to be that dumb, let them. You can never, never have too much starting pitching. They will probably be keeping Bucholz and Ellsbury so whats the big deal? Its not depleted anything. How come theres a chance that Santana all of a sudden gets a career changing injury once he is traded and there isn't a chance (or you can't predict because its against your rules) that Lester is just an average pitcher and the prospects amount to jack ****?

not once did i mention a dynasty. that's your term, not mine. what i said was starting pitching is already their top strength. they don't need to trade for another starter, not even the best in the bigs. if you're worrying about a dynasty, who's to say they don't have the components for that already? they're stocked with brilliant young pitchers and have a steady stream of prospects ready to step in and help them win over the next few seasons. after winning the WS twice in 4 years, they're probably already a dynasty, all without bringing santana into the equation. what were their biggest weaknesses last year? SS, CF and RF. who are they offering to trade away? their best middle-infield prospect and possibly their best CF prospect. i agree, the deal that involves lester, crisp and lowrie is probably the most beneficial to the sox, but still, this isn't a trade they need to make. you act like if they don't trade for santana they'll suck for the next 5 years, but that's not how i see it at all. if i remember right, you're one of the people *****ed and moaned about the domination of the sox and yankees and how they're basically the same team and that they always go out and outbid everyone for the best players out there. look at it from a lifelong sox fan's perspective; we've spent decades pining for a WS championship while the yankees have one time and time again by outspending everyone else and pillaging their farm system to acquire the best players in baseball. after a while that strategy stopped working for them and at the same time the sox have been able to totally change their team philosphy and retool their scouting and development department and the results are having one of the best farm systems in baseball and finally winning two world series in quick succession after an 86-year drought. and now there's a chance that the team could basically do the very thing the fans have hated the yankees for over the years by sending a bunch of good prospects away to sign the most expensive pitcher in baseball history just because they can, even though they don't need him. yeah, i'd call that gluttony. if you're gonna hold your team to a higher standard you better have the conviction to stick with it and not cave in because there's a chance you can get the biggest shiniest toy on the block, just to stop the other teams from getting it. as for the dice-k signing, everyone *****es about the price and that they paid $51 just to talk to him, which was a lot )but doesn't count towards their payroll), but his actual salary is a pretty good deal. he only made $6.3 million last year ($8.3 with the $2M signing bonus) and he'll make $8M the next three years and $10M the next two years after that. compare that to barry zito's contract and then look at their numbers last year and tell me which one is more overpaid. we can keep this up or we can agree to disagree, but i've made my point.

[Showtime]

Even if this 5th player is added, I still think the Red Sox are making out in this deal for Santana. Prospects are exactly that, prospects. In regards to Coco Crisp, Ellsbury is a better way to go for the Red Sox. Lester is a middle ground pitcher.

That Tigers deal sounds fantastic for the Tigers. Puts them right back at the top.

[sinewave]

Wow I really don't understand Red Sox fans. You're in a position for your GM to make a move that pretty much is the potential beginning of something fans of previous generations could only dream about and here you are saying "Eh, we don't need Santana, meh, he probably makes us better but who cares?" You want to talk about arrogance and the Yankee fans? Well here you go, I name this exhibit 1A evidence of arrogance: Red Sox fans. I would love to be a fan of team in the position of the Red, as I'm sure a lot of other baseball fans would be.

But instead the rest of us usually get deals like "2 unnamed prospects for Carlos Quentin". It may as well have read "2 unnamed prospects for 1 unnamed prospect" because I have never heard of that guy. And then the GM of the team you root for goes on TV and says "We are being very aggressive." Right.

that's funny, the guy who announces the death of an athlete with the words "he gone!" labels fans who think their favorite team is good enough without shelling out $150 for a guy who plays 200 innings a year arrogant. :down

[Dark Donnie]

Damn Fran

Report: Tigers to acquire Cabrera, Willis

MLB.com is reporting that the Tigers are set to acquire Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis from the Marlins for Cameron Maybin, Andrew Miller and four more prospects.

Dec. 4 - 6:03 pm et
Source: MLB.com

[sinewave]

they make all these deals seem imminent, but less than 30% will ever actually get done. that's silly.

[Jerry!]

that's funny, the guy who announces the death of an athlete with the words "he gone!" labels fans who think their favorite team is good enough without shelling out $150 for a guy who plays 200 innings a year arrogant. :down

I didn't add the :csad: to that post, I probably should have since I was more or less crucified for it, but that was my feeling. Not sure how even if you misunderstood my intent with that makes me arrogant, crude maybe, but not arrogant.

[sinewave]

peter gammons is reporting that the deal for cabrera and willis to the tigers for miller, maybin and a few other prospects is done. congrats tigers and marlins fans. i think both teams will benefit from this.

hopefully this means the angels will make the trade for santana.

[Spidey-Bat]

Apparently the Angels AREN'T in the Santana race

[Showtime]

Damn Fran

Now that is what they call buying the farm. Or is it selling the farm?

Either way so many puns are intended.

This puts the Tigers back on the map, I hope it goes through. The Central Division will be a battle.

In regards to the Santana Sweepstakes, I just heard a report on NECN, New England Cable News, that the Twins want this completed by tonight.

So much for this taking a long time to process.

[Spidey-Bat]

Wanting it completed and it getting completed are 2 different things.

Omar Minaya is going to have a press conference at 7:30. Nothing has been talked about in regards to the Mets all day (other than they're ****ed). It's probably nothing interesting.

[Showtime]

Wanting it completed and it getting completed are 2 different things.

Omar Minaya is going to have a press conference at 7:30. Nothing has been talked about in regards to the Mets all day (other than they're ****ed). It's probably nothing interesting.

Well I don't think it's going to take much longer. Doesn't seem like it's going to drag out.

[Spidey-Bat]

I say it gets done tomorrow at the earliest. I had anticipated the Yankees to stay in longer and more teams (Angels, Dodgers, Mets) to get involved.

[Showtime]

I say it gets done tomorrow at the earliest. I had anticipated the Yankees to stay in longer and more teams (Angels, Dodgers, Mets) to get involved.

Good thing you didn't write it in blood or anything. I'd be all over you. :cwink:

[Spidey-Bat]

I did make this when the Mets' season ended. I needed something to look towards :(
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/1065/johanbv8.jpg

[Showtime]

I did make this when the Mets' season ended. I needed something to look towards :(
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/1065/johanbv8.jpg

He looks good in that hat. :csad:

[Spidey-Bat]

He does. I'll just have to wait 6 years until he signs with the Mets. Just like Pedro.

[Showtime]

I miss Pedro.

[Spidey-Bat]

I hope the Red Sox sign him to a cheap 1-year deal after he's done in NY. He deserves to end his career there.

[cyborg ninja 14]

Wow, Cabrera makes that Detroit offense potent as a mother****er now.

[Spidey-Bat]

Rodriguez
Guillen
Polanco
Renteria
Cabrera
Jones
Granderson
Sheffield

No breathing room there

(I just went through the positions, no idea what the lineup will look like).


Some news from my friend...
Red Sox are likely stalling with the Santana deal.
Dodgers/O's talks about Bedard are fake.
O's won't trade Bedard until Santana is dealt.

Also, the press conference the Mets had just said they were talking to the O's.

[Fran]

YES!!! :woot:

[Dodger]

Some news from my friend...
Red Sox are likely stalling with the Santana deal.
Dodgers/O's talks about Bedard are fake.
O's won't trade Bedard until Santana is dealt.

Also, the press conference the Mets had just said they were talking to the O's.

God, I hope your friend is right!

[Spidey-Bat]

YES!!! :woot:

What do you think the lineup will look like?

[Fran]

To be honest, I'm not too sure. And I'm about to eat some Bagel Bites :o

[Badger]

Royals sign Jose Guillen, for some right-handed pop, and pursue Andruw Jones. :up:

Jose Guillen (http://kansascity.royals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071203&content_id=2316542&vkey=news_kc&fext=.jsp&c_id=kc)

Andruw Jones (http://kansascity.royals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071204&content_id=2317498&vkey=news_kc&fext=.jsp&c_id=kc)

This may not be earth shattering to most teams, but this is big change in KC. :up:

Even with just Guillen, and hopefully Jones isn't far behind.

[Fran]

Can we just be awarded the Central division already? :huh:

[Jerry!]

Royals sign Jose Guillen, for some right-handed pop, and pursue Andruw Jones. :up:

Jose Guillen (http://kansascity.royals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071203&content_id=2316542&vkey=news_kc&fext=.jsp&c_id=kc)

Andruw Jones (http://kansascity.royals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071204&content_id=2317498&vkey=news_kc&fext=.jsp&c_id=kc)

This may not be earth shattering to most teams, but this is big change in KC. :up:

Even with just Guillen, and hopefully Jones isn't far behind.

Thats cool. Even if they don't get Jones, nice to see them try. We got Carlos Quentin the other day. Yay for the White Sox.....we gone.

[Spidey-Bat]

Can we just be awarded the Central division already? :huh:

You gotta earn it.

[NewYorkSpider]

I knew the Tigers were in the running for Cabrera, I just didn't think that they would get him. I was thinking the Dodgers or Angels would trade for him.

The Dodgers at this point need to sign Aaron Rowand IMO. They still need a batter that can give them close to 30HR.

I think the Angels are set. They got a strong bat with Torii Hunter and their roatation is going to be fine.

[Excel]

wow great trade for detroit.

[rdh007]

All I hear from my Tiger fan friends is how the Yankees have endless pockets and buy their pennants, and on and on with the whining...no more excuses boys, you've got the best lineup (and maybe rotation) money can buy.

[Fran]

Our rotation should be a little better, but we DID resign Jones.

[Spidey-Bat]

All I hear from my Tiger fan friends is how the Yankees have endless pockets and buy their pennants, and on and on with the whining...no more excuses boys, you've got the best lineup (and maybe rotation) money can buy.

The only guys in their lineup they signed as big FA's are Ordonez, Pudge, and Sheffield. Everyone else was traded for or produced on their own.

[Fran]

Sheffield was traded here as well.

[Spidey-Bat]

Oh yeah. Forgot about that. They got him for a bum prospect that had surgery.

[The Incredible Hulk]

All I hear from my Tiger fan friends is how the Yankees have endless pockets and buy their pennants, and on and on with the whining...no more excuses boys, you've got the best lineup (and maybe rotation) money can buy.

the Tigers payroll is still about half of the Yankees at this point. Cabrera and Willis dont have astronomical contracts by any means, they were just guys who wanted the hell out of Florida and the Marlins wanted to get something for them before they lost them for nothing.

Hopefully Leyland can get Willis' head on straight and he can be the pitcher he was in 2003 and 2005. As for Cabrera, if he's slimmed down then we're golden. The guy's comps for his first 4 years are Henry Aaron, Henry Aaron,, Henry Aaron,, and Henry Aaron. That's good in case you were wondering ;)

Hate to give up both Maybin and Miller in the deal but the emergence of Granderson as an All Star caliber player sort of made Maybin expendable. If we can sign Cabrera to a long term deal when his current contract is up, we'll be set for a decade.

Now Dombrowski, just go out and find an arm for the bullpen and we're all set. :up:

[Fran]

Cabrera has beem slimming down, Hulk, according to what I've heard on talk radio (since the Angels were coveting him).

And I believe in Jim Leyland to get this done. We're gonna be boss this year :up:

[El ASESINO]

Royals sign Jose Guillen, for some right-handed pop, and pursue Andruw Jones. :up:

Jose Guillen (http://kansascity.royals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071203&content_id=2316542&vkey=news_kc&fext=.jsp&c_id=kc)

Andruw Jones (http://kansascity.royals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071204&content_id=2317498&vkey=news_kc&fext=.jsp&c_id=kc)

This may not be earth shattering to most teams, but this is big change in KC. :up:

Even with just Guillen, and hopefully Jones isn't far behind.

KC will be a great place for Andruw if he goes their


GO BRAVES!

[fu manchu]

^ i'm still hoping that Andruw accepts the Dodgers offer. :o

[Showtime]

Congrats Fran and the Tigers. HUGE.

[Showtime]

That's huge for KC. Great.

[El ASESINO]

^ i'm still hoping that Andruw accepts the Dodgers offer. :o


LA will be a tough place for Andruw to play in. KC is a more quieter and stable place for him to play in. Plus he also knows Dayton Moore

[The Incredible Hulk]

I dont see Andruw going to KC. He can still play and I'd see him going to a winner at this point.

Royals needs to build a young solid core of players with guys like Alex Gordon, etc. and then add key free agents at certain positions and show a commitment to building a winner, then they can move on to guys that are Jones caliber. They basically need to do what the Tigers have done over the last 5 years since they lost 110+ games

[NewYorkSpider]

My friend who is a Braves fan said that Andruw Jones hates to play in the cold. Los Angeles would be a place he would probably like to play in.

[Showtime]

I see your point, but I think Andruw would be a draw and provide a bat in the middle of the lineup for the next 3 or 4 years while the kids are gaining momentum.

[fu manchu]

LA will be a tough place for Andruw to play in. KC is a more quieter and stable place for him to play in. Plus he also knows Dayton Moore

Anymore than Atlanta? :huh: LA is nowhere in the likes of New York or Boston. :o

[Spidey-Bat]

Cabrera has beem slimming down, Hulk, according to what I've heard on talk radio (since the Angels were coveting him).

And I believe in Jim Leyland to get this done. We're gonna be boss this year :up:

Their rotation isn't impressive to me. Willis has not been good. He needs to slim down or change his mechanics. He's almost as bad as Oliver Perez was in 2006.

[Showtime]

Their rotation isn't impressive to me. Willis has not been good. He needs to slim down or change his mechanics. He's almost as bad as Oliver Perez was in 2006.

Rotation is very impressive on paper. Last year for Willis was the exception rather than the norm.

[The Incredible Hulk]

Their rotation isn't impressive to me. Willis has not been good. He needs to slim down or change his mechanics. He's almost as bad as Oliver Perez was in 2006.


outside of the Red Sox, you'd be hard pressed to find a better rotation in baseball than the Tigers have at the moment.

Verlander
Bonderman
Rogers
Willis
Robertson

is nothing to sneeze at. Not to mention they've still got a lot of decent arms in the minors like Porcello, etc.

[Showtime]

Agreed Hulk.

On paper it's huge.

[Fran]

Their rotation isn't impressive to me. Willis has not been good. He needs to slim down or change his mechanics. He's almost as bad as Oliver Perez was in 2006.

Is any trade good to you?

[NewYorkSpider]

The Tigers had one pitcher(Verlander) in the top 30 in ERA this past season. Unless they pitch like they did in 2006, the Tigers will finish second in the division again.

[Fran]

STFU :mad:

[cyborg ninja 14]

:ikyn holy crap, this became a smiley! Kudos to Matt:up:

[Mister J]

God, the Marlins are hard to stomach. I had resigned myself to the fact that Cabrera was on the way out, but damn, D-Train too? Guess it'll be a while longer until that third periodic isolated push for a World Series. :dry:

[Mister J]

...

[Kingfish]

as an angel fan, i'm actually pretty happy about this cabrera trade. honestly, it means a much better chance that they won't be foolish and dump guys like kendrick and adenhart for one guy. now if only he'd gone to an nl team so they'd never have to face him...

[Jerry!]

God, the Marlins are hard to stomach. I had resigned myself to the fact that Cabrera was on the way out, but damn, D-Train too? Guess it'll be a while longer until that third periodic isolated push for a World Series. :dry:

2011...mark it.

[Mister J]

Well, the first trophy took 5 years and the second took 6. 7 years since Beckett shut down the Yankees puts it at 2010. I'm trekking out to Vegas first chance I get. Hopefully, the team won't already be there.

[cyborg ninja 14]

Good point, I bet the Fish with their rotation of Miller and crazy Scott Olson will get them there.

[NewYorkSpider]

Yankees are out on Haren. They were asking for just about what the Twins were asking for. Billy Beane wants a lot of good prospects in return. If he thinks he can get a deal like what the Twins were asking for, then he must be out of his mind.

[Showtime]

Is any trade good to you?

Santana to the Mets for a bag of balls.

[Kingfish]

Yankees are out on Haren. They were asking for just about what the Twins were asking for. Billy Beane wants a lot of good prospects in return. If he thinks he can get a deal like what the Twins were asking for, then he must be out of his mind.

billy beane is never completely out of mind. he always to seem to get damn good returns for his trades. at this point, he is under no rush to trade haren, so by all means he should hold out for an incredible return. it should also be noted that haren doesn't have the same financial burdens that come with santana. regardless, haren seems like a much more likely trade candidate at the deadline next season, when the a's have a better idea if they are contenders or not.

[NewYorkSpider]

billy beane is never completely out of mind. he always to seem to get damn good returns for his trades. at this point, he is under no rush to trade haren, so by all means he should hold out for an incredible return. it should also be noted that haren doesn't have the same financial burdens that come with santana. regardless, haren seems like a much more likely trade candidate at the deadline next season, when the a's have a better idea if they are contenders or not.

Beane is going to overprice Haren in the AL cause he doesn't want to trade him the same league. Plus, Haren's road stats are horrible. He's not worth getting if we have to give up two of our top prospects. Santana on the other hand pitches well at home and on the road. Beane comparing Haren to Johan Santana is absolutly ridiculous.

[Kingfish]

Beane is going to overprice Haren in the AL cause he doesn't want to trade him the same league. Plus, Haren's road stats are horrible. He's not worth getting if we have to give up two of our top prospects. Santana on the other hand pitches well at home and on the road. Beane comparing Haren to Johan Santana is absolutly ridiculous.

they are hardly being compared, the overvaluing comes from the fact that he doesn't need to trade him. the a's would have been a much stronger team last season if they hadn't been hurt. beane would be foolish to give up on contending next year without seeing how the injuries progress, so he would have to get a very large return to trade his ace. again, its not like he has to trade him this offseason or settle for draft picks like the twins do.

[NewYorkSpider]

they are hardly being compared, the overvaluing comes from the fact that he doesn't need to trade him. the a's would have been a much stronger team last season if they hadn't been hurt. beane would be foolish to give up on contending next year without seeing how the injuries progress, so he would have to get a very large return to trade his ace. again, its not like he has to trade him this offseason or settle for draft picks like the twins do.

Beane even said it himself that Haren has the same value as Santana. From a rational point of view that might be true with the different contracts. Haren pitches in McAfee Coliseum(pitchers ballpark). He's got a tremendous advantage there. He's not worth getting if you have to give up Hughes and Kennedy. If he gets traded it will be to an NL team. I'm guessing the Dodgers.

[Showtime]

New Toronto Road Jerseys:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/dave123/img5863222.jpg

New "Flashback Friday" & Road Jersey:

http://i16.tinypic.com/8c1rrf8.png

http://images.sportsline.com/u/ap/photos/AJW102120319_1024x768.jpg

[Showtime]

This is what is going to be unveiled Thursday for the Kansas City Royals:

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/DOech714/big%20dave%20the%20sports%20guy/kchomealt.jpg :ninja:

[Showtime]

New Yankees Patches:

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/DOech714/big%20dave%20the%20sports%20guy/nyypatches.jpg

[Kingfish]

Beane even said it himself that Haren has the same value as Santana. From a rational point of view that might be true with the different contracts. Haren pitches in McAfee Coliseum(pitchers ballpark). He's got a tremendous advantage there. He's not worth getting if you have to give up Hughes and Kennedy. If he gets traded it will be to an NL team. I'm guessing the Dodgers.

well obviously hes going to say that. what kind of general manager goes out and says "my starting pitcher isn't as valuable as that team's guy. give me less"? but the overall point is that is how valuable haren is to the team. right now santana has little value to the twins, a team on the verge of non-contention next year. haren has lots of value to the a's who could compete if the injury bug doesn't hit them as hard. with that said, beane is a gm who has always recognized the value of trading his stars for young talent, but he still will have to get a big package to justify trading his ace.

[NewYorkSpider]

well obviously hes going to say that. what kind of general manager goes out and says "my starting pitcher isn't as valuable as that team's guy. give me less"? but the overall point is that is how valuable haren is to the team. right now santana has little value to the twins, a team on the verge of non-contention next year. haren has lots of value to the a's who could compete if the injury bug doesn't hit them as hard. with that said, beane is a gm who has always recognized the value of trading his stars for young talent, but he still will have to get a big package to justify trading his ace.


The Twins can still have a good year next season with Santana. Liriano will be back after his succesful surgery, Scott Baker can win you 10+ games and they have a good young pitcher in Slowey. The offense won't be as good without Hunter and that's where they'll probably run into problems. The Twins should keep him and then trade him at this years deadline if they aren't in contention(and looking at Detroit's lineup that won't happen), but there is always that possibility they will have a good team and with Cleveland and Detroit on the rise it will be tough. I'm sure he'll get traded to Boston within this week. I just heard that it's going to be a 5 for 1 deal. Minnesota can't pass that up. And I completely agree with you on Beane, it's just the fact that he wants are two best prospects. I wouldn't care if we traded Hughes and another mediocre pitcher. I don't want to give up both.

[Kingfish]

The Twins should keep him and then trade him at this years deadline if they aren't in contention(and looking at Detroit's lineup that won't happen), but there is always that possibility they will have a good team and with Cleveland and Detroit on the rise it will be tough. I'm sure he'll get traded to Boston within this week. I just heard that it's going to be a 5 for 1 deal. Minnesota can't pass that up.

except didn't he say that he would veto any trade in the middle of the season so as not to hurt his contract status? so the twins are stuck. either trade him now or settle for 2 draft picks.

[The Incredible Hulk]

New Toronto Road Jerseys:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/dave123/img5863222.jpg

New "Flashback Friday" & Road Jersey:

http://i16.tinypic.com/8c1rrf8.png

http://images.sportsline.com/u/ap/photos/AJW102120319_1024x768.jpg

I always liked the Jays old logo and uniforms. They were simple, distinctive, and good looking, oh and ACTUALLY BLUE. Not a big fan of the "Black Jays" look at all.

[Dark Donnie]

So all reports seem to indicate that Boston is the only team even involved now, with the Angels possibly jumping in.

Report: Yanks turned down Kennedy-less deal

According to the New York Daily News, the Yankees turned down a trade for Johan Santana that would have sent Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera, Jeff Marquez and Mitch Hilligoss to Minnesota.

Previous speculation was that the Yankees balked at including Ian Kennedy along with Hughes and Cabrera, but the newspaper reports that general manager Brian Cashman turned down a deal that didn't include Kennedy at all. According to the report, Cashman "never wanted to do the Santana deal in the first place" and became even less interested once Andy Pettitte was re-signed. If true, that would explain why Hank Steinbrenner stuck to his self-imposed deadline and might indicate that the Yankees are truly out of the Santana mix. Dec. 5 - 9:06 am et
Source: New York Daily News

[Erzengel]

It's ironic, I was complaining how the Yankees were giving up the home grown talent for years. I wouldn't have minded them trading Hughes but not him and Kennedy and definitely not Melky. I think the Twins would have made out more in that situation.

[Dark Donnie]

Livan Hernandez-S-Diamondbacks Dec. 5 - 9:38 am et

The New York Daily News speculates that the Mets "ultimately will fall short in their pursuit of" Erik Bedard and Dan Haren, and instead will focus on Bartolo Colon or Livan Hernandez.

The Mets are apparently finding it difficult to put together packages that can entire teams with No. 1 starters available. "I think we're players," general manager Omar Minaya said. "But it all depends at what price. I'm always going to be looking for pitching."
Source: New York Daily News
Related: Livan Hernandez, Bartolo Colon, Mets


Mets looking at David Wells as well:ikyn


Mets were told Willis wasn't available; Omar out in cold
Wednesday, Dec 5, 2007 9:44 am EST


John Harper, baseball columnist for the New York Daily News, reported Wednesday the New York Mets inquired about Dontrelle Willis earlier this week and were told he was not available. Willis was then shipped with Miguel Cabrera to the Detriot Tigers in baseball's biggest deal thus far.

Harper wrote: "This was the most piercing insult. The difference is the Tigers had the kind of prized prospects that are at the root of every big trade or potential trade this winter. The exorbitant cost of pitching has made drafting and developing players perhaps more important than ever, either to build with or use as trade bait.''

Harper added: "And since there is no sizzle surrounding Mike Pelfrey or Philip Humber, pitchers that teams were drooling over a couple of years ago, the Mets seem destined for a quiet winter.''

Source: New York Daily News

Related: Philip Humber, Mike Pelfrey, Miguel Cabrera, Dontrelle Willis, New York Mets

[Showtime]

I always liked the Jays old logo and uniforms. They were simple, distinctive, and good looking, oh and ACTUALLY BLUE. Not a big fan of the "Black Jays" look at all.

I agree. I think it's a nice addition. I actually always liked the blue & white hats.

[Dark Donnie]

Johan Santana-S-Twins Dec. 5 - 11:00 am et

Appearing on ESPN News Wednesday morning, ESPN.com's Keith Law reported that the Twins have again reached out to the Mets, Angels and Dodgers regarding Johan Santana.

The Mets might struggle to beat the Red Sox's reported offerings, but the Dodgers and Angels would have little trouble putting together very attractive packages for Santana if they're serious about acquiring him. With the Yankees' interest potentially gone, the Twins may simply be trying to find another team to play the Red Sox against.
Source: Metsblog.com

[sinewave]

Johan Santana-S-Twins Dec. 5 - 11:00 am et

Appearing on ESPN News Wednesday morning, ESPN.com's Keith Law reported that the Twins have again reached out to the Mets, Angels and Dodgers regarding Johan Santana.

The Mets might struggle to beat the Red Sox's reported offerings, but the Dodgers and Angels would have little trouble putting together very attractive packages for Santana if they're serious about acquiring him. With the Yankees' interest potentially gone, the Twins may simply be trying to find another team to play the Red Sox against.
Source: Metsblog.com

i really, REALLY hope the mets trade for him for three reasons:

1) to get him out of the american league
2) to keep him away from the yankees
3) to put an end to spidey-bats constant complaints about the mets' rotation. :oldrazz:

[Showtime]

That would be a great trade for the Mets, if the Red Sox don't get him. I would love for the Mets to.

[Ben Urich]

That'd certainly make the annual Subway Series interesting again. :up:

[Showtime]

No doubt about it Big Ben.

[cyborg ninja 14]

Oh noes! Santana update from Peter Gammons

12:15 p.m., from Peter Gammons• Don't expect to see a Twins-Red Sox or Twins-Yankees whopper. The sense is now that Minnesota will hold onto Johan Santana.

[cyborg ninja 14]

Haha!:woot: Ron Gardenhire shows his true colors

11:22 a.m, from Jerry Crasnick
• With the Twins in search of middle-infield help, one potential target is free agent David Eckstein. "I've always had a lot of respect for him," said Minnesota manager Ron Gardenhire. "He catches the ball. He knows how to play. He's a proven winner."

Catches the ball, proven winner, blah blah.

[Showtime]

Wow. I wonder what's going on with the Twins.

[cyborg ninja 14]

Wow. I wonder what's going on with the Twins.

Who knows, bet you anything the rumors will be back soon enough.

[Spidey-Bat]

i really, REALLY hope the mets trade for him for three reasons:

1) to get him out of the american league
2) to keep him away from the yankees
3) to put an end to spidey-bats constant complaints about the mets' rotation. :oldrazz:

I don't complain about the Mets' rotation. I like the 4 guys going into it next year. I'm complaining that the potential 5th guy is likely going to be Livan Hernandez or Bartolo Colon.

Twins MUST trade Santana. They cannot take just 2 draft picks for him. He could still change his mind mid-season that he'll be traded. The Twins might be willing to accept 1 player less from an NL team than an AL team since there's the bonus of getting him out of the league.

BTW, saw this on MetsBlog (which is a great site. They report all rumors and there's always good Mets stuff if you're curious about them).

http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/05/buzz-mets-are-in-it-for-santana/

I doubt it's true. More likely the Twins just talking to other teams to see if they can get as good a deal from a team that DIDN'T win the WS last year. But still, reading this is keeping my dreams somewhat alive

[NewYorkSpider]

except didn't he say that he would veto any trade in the middle of the season so as not to hurt his contract status? so the twins are stuck. either trade him now or settle for 2 draft picks.

I have read a LOT of Santana rumors and haven't come across him saying that. Either I missed that somewhere or what you read was simply speculation from other people.

Right now I don't know what to beleive about this trade. The rumors keep changing every hour. I'm hoping the Mets or Dodgers can work out a deal with the Twins.

[cyborg ninja 14]

1:57 p.m., from Jayson Stark• "The Giants and Blue Jays have a deal on the table that would send outfielder Alex Rios to San Francisco for pitcher Tim Lincecum. But the Blue Jays appear to be more motivated to make that trade than the Giants. Two baseball men who spoke with the Giants describe them as being "indecisive" about whether they really want to move Lincecum for a big bat and, if they do, about whom they should get for him. Toronto has decided its best strategy to survive in the loaded AL East is to stockpile as many power arms as possible. So the Blue Jays would sacrifice offense if they could pick up an arm like Lincecum."

Hm, trade a fantastic young arm for a 26 year old outfielder coming off a .297/.354/.498 year.

[NewYorkSpider]

John Perrotto from Baseball Prospectus said he talked to a Twins official, he said that the meetings may end without a Santana deal. He also notes that Santana could be dealt before Spring Training.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=6974

[cookiva]

Im not listening to any more Santana rumors. Its just ridiculous right now.

[sinewave]

1:57 p.m., from Jayson Stark• "The Giants and Blue Jays have a deal on the table that would send outfielder Alex Rios to San Francisco for pitcher Tim Lincecum. But the Blue Jays appear to be more motivated to make that trade than the Giants. Two baseball men who spoke with the Giants describe them as being "indecisive" about whether they really want to move Lincecum for a big bat and, if they do, about whom they should get for him. Toronto has decided its best strategy to survive in the loaded AL East is to stockpile as many power arms as possible. So the Blue Jays would sacrifice offense if they could pick up an arm like Lincecum."

Hm, trade a fantastic young arm for a 26 year old outfielder coming off a .297/.354/.498 year.

this would be a good deal for both teams. the giant really need some good young players since they've been relying on washed-up veterans for way too long and have very little offensive prospects in their system.

[cyborg ninja 14]

John Perrotto from Baseball Prospectus said he talked to a Twins official, he said that the meetings may end without a Santana deal. He also notes that Santana could be dealt before Spring Training.

Finally, some credible sources.

[Kingfish]

I have read a LOT of Santana rumors and haven't come across him saying that. Either I missed that somewhere or what you read was simply speculation from other people.

i coulda sworn i read it on one of the big sites, but i can't remember where, so you very well could be right. makes sense though, not many teams or players like to work out huge deals like the one he would demand in the middle of the season. and i don't think he'd approve a trade to go somewhere for two months.

[cyborg ninja 14]

this would be a good deal for both teams. the giant really need some good young players since they've been relying on washed-up veterans for way too long and have very little offensive prospects in their system.

Doesn't keeping Lincecum and Matt Cain help the "really good young players" void?

[Superman79]

Oh noes! Santana update from Peter Gammons

12:15 p.m., from Peter Gammons• Don't expect to see a Twins-Red Sox or Twins-Yankees whopper. The sense is now that Minnesota will hold onto Johan Santana.


Hmm...if true it works for me :up:

[Ben Urich]

He just had to say Whopper. Now I'm hungry. :cmad:

[Spidey-Bat]

Just got an incredible rumor from a trusted New York sportswriter. Stay with me, because this one's crazy. But rest assured that if the source wasn't good, I wouldn't post it.

Minnesota has initiated talks for a three-way blockbuster with the Twins and A's. Here's how it would go down:

Mets send Jose Reyes, Kevin Mulvey, and Hector Pellot to A's
A's send Bobby Crosby and Dan Johnson to Mets
A's send Dan Haren to Twins
Twins send Johan Santana to Mets

Mets get Johan Santana, Bobby Crosby and Dan Johnson
A's get Jose Reyes and Kevin Mulvey
Twins get Dan Haren and Hector Pellot

The source says Haren is exactly the type of player the Twins want for Santana, a cheap frontline starter. It's known the Mets would hate to deal Reyes but they would get some value beyond Santana. Billy Beane is happy because he gets Reyes for one more year than he had Haren plus longtime favorite Mulvey. And, he's out of Crosby's contract.

I'd rather the Mets send Reyes and Mulvey to the Twins for Santana and Alexi Casilla.

[Showtime]

That is a funky trade.

[Dark Donnie]

The Mets kill in that trade..I doubt that would go down

[Showtime]

I love that trade for the Mets. Mets FTW on that one.

[sinewave]

Doesn't keeping Lincecum and Matt Cain help the "really good young players" void?

i meant mostly their offensive players. when's the last time they produced a quiality hitter? bill mueller? their rotation isn't bad and they seem to have a decent amount of good young pitching so it makes sense to use some of that to acquire a good young hitter like rios.

[The Incredible Hulk]

thats ridiculous, the Twins would be trading Santana for Dan Haren. While I love Haren as a pitcher, he's no where near as a valuable and he'd put the Twins in the same boat 2 years from now that they're in with Santana now.

I just dont buy that they'd deal him without getting top prospects in return unless they've completely panicked after the Tigers deal yesterday.

And if you're the Mets do you want to deal Reyes? Thats a huge hole you open for the sake of acquiring a guy who's going to be a FA in a year. Not many guys can do what Reyes does at the top of your lineup.

[sinewave]

thats ridiculous, the Twins would be trading Santana for Dan Haren. While I love Haren as a pitcher, he's no where near as a valuable and he'd put the Twins in the same boat 2 years from now that they're in with Santana now.

I just dont buy that they'd deal him without getting top prospects in return unless they've completely panicked after the Tigers deal yesterday.

And if you're the Mets do you want to deal Reyes? Thats a huge hole you open for the sake of acquiring a guy who's going to be a FA in a year. Not many guys can do what Reyes does at the top of your lineup.

how would oakland sign santana if that happened?

[Jerry!]

Right now Peter Gammons is waiting anxiously next to his Bat-phone for more rumors on the Red Sox acquiring Santana. He is on his second oxygen tank and refusing to eat anything.

[Showtime]

Last updated: 12/05, 5:10 p.m.
The latest on Santana ...


From ESPN's Jayson Stark (4:03 p.m.): "The Red Sox and Twins continue to have "a lot of dialogue" about Johan Santana, according to one source with knowledge of their discussions. But there is no indication they've been able to rebuild any momentum toward a deal. The Red Sox want to make this deal on their terms, meaning they're still only willing to offer either Jon Lester or Jacoby Ellsbury but not both. The Twins think they need a bigger return if they're trading Santana. So even though their ability to compete in the AL Central took a hit with the Tigers' deal for Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis, it doesn't appear that has heightened the Twins' sense of urgency to complete a deal."

[Kingfish]

structured like that, the santana/haren/reyes deal is ridiculous. why would the twins trade santana for haren and a prospect? they would have to be getting at least another prospect or two after pellot.

honestly that just sounds like a met fans wishful thinking.

[Showtime]

Last updated: 12/05, 5:39 p.m.
The latest on Santana ...

From Ken Davidoff and David Lennon, New York Newsday (5:20 p.m.): "The Mets are still trying to acquire Johan Santana from the Twins, manager Willie Randolph said this morning... The Mets remain a significant longshot to pull off such a deal, as long as they refuse to include shortstop Jose Reyes in the deal. But the Twins are clearly dissatisfied with the offers they have received from the Yankees (Melky Cabrera, Phil Hughes and a lesser prospect) and the Red Sox (alternate packages headed by either pitcher Jon Lester or outfielder Jacoby Ellsbury), and it seems that Minnesota has re-opened trade discussions around baseball. Foxsports.com reported that the Mariners were involved, as well. 'Santana is still out there," Randolph said, in a session with reporters. "I don't think that we're necessarily out of the picture, even though I think Boston and the Yankees get most of the play on that. [It] depends on what Minnesota wants, if they have what we like, that's something that might happen.'"

[sinewave]

at this point, i think the twins are trying to get more teams involved in this deal to help drive up the price and the red sox are just stalling until they're positive the yankees won't swoop in and get him. i really don't think the red sox are that interested in getting santana.

[Spidey-Bat]

structured like that, the santana/haren/reyes deal is ridiculous. why would the twins trade santana for haren and a prospect? they would have to be getting at least another prospect or two after pellot.

honestly that just sounds like a met fans wishful thinking.

Haren is signed to a ridiculously cheap contract and could be an ace on about 29 teams. The Twins actually have a really good, young team if they did that trade.

This wasn't a wishful thinking Mets fan. This was just a writer playing mock-GM. It'll never happen. Never. But I love reading and discussing these types of trade ideas. It's certainly more interesting than talking about the Yankees and Red Sox fighting over Santana.

[FaT_tONle]

Twins really turned down Cabrera, Hughes, and Horne? That's the only deal that is worth making.

[Albiceleste]

Is their any way the Dodgers can trade with KC to get that guy named Soria?

[Kingfish]

Haren is signed to a ridiculously cheap contract and could be an ace on about 29 teams. The Twins actually have a really good, young team if they did that trade.

This wasn't a wishful thinking Mets fan. This was just a writer playing mock-GM. It'll never happen. Never. But I love reading and discussing these types of trade ideas. It's certainly more interesting than talking about the Yankees and Red Sox fighting over Santana.

i'm just saying that for the packages surrounding santana, it would be pretty foolish to settle for haren, who they know will be gone after 2 seasons for the same reason.

and i agree, arguing about these kinds of trades is alot better than hearing more about the two teams many people are just flat out sick of hearing about. so by all means, throw more out there.

[Spidey-Bat]

Mariners and Mets have sent offers to the Twins for Santana. Mariners is likely to include Adam Jones and Brandon Morrow. However, it's questionable whether Santana would waive his NTC to play in Seattle. The Mets' offer does NOT include Jose Reyes. However, the Mets may be willing to part with Oliver Perez.

[NewYorkSpider]

I heard that there was 6 teams in the running for Santana still.

Red Sox, Yankees, Mets, Angels, Mariners and Rangers. The big question for the last two teams is if Santana wants to play there.

[NewYorkSpider]

Spidey-Bat, did you hear about the Tigers wanting to dump Dontrelle and Pudge to the Mets? I believe it was on Metsblog.

[Spidey-Bat]

Mets won't bite. They barely have enough resources to get an ace which is their #1 priority. The last thing they'll do is get ANOTHER catcher and a project pitcher.

[Fran]

Spidey-Bat, did you hear about the Tigers wanting to dump Dontrelle and Pudge to the Mets? I believe it was on Metsblog.

Stupid, IMO. We're losing one of the best catchers in the league. :down

[NewYorkSpider]

It doesn't look like it's going to happen Fran. The Tigers lineup looks perfect and the roatation will be fine. The bullpen could use another arm, but other than that the Tigers will be AL contenders.

[The Incredible Hulk]

Right now Peter Gammons is waiting anxiously next to his Bat-phone for more rumors on the Red Sox acquiring Santana. He is on his second oxygen tank and refusing to eat anything.

Peter Gammons is such an unbelievable Red Sox homer it sickens me sometimes. I think he'll literally have a boner on camera if they get Santana. He dug at the Yankees for years for their free spending (read his column when they got A-Rod when he was thought to be going to the Sox), but now that the Red Sox have become the Yankees Lite, he utters nary a word.

Last updated: 12/05, 5:10 p.m.
The latest on Santana ...

I dont get why the Red Sox are acting like Lester is this blue chip prospect thye dont want to part with? :confused: What's his ceiling? A #3 starter maybe?

Is their any way the Dodgers can trade with KC to get that guy named Soria?

If there's one thing the Dodgers dont need, its help at the back of the pen. They're pretty solid with Saito and Broxton back there. Sure you could use him as a 7th inning guy, but KC's price tag would be pretty high considering how young he is.

Mariners and Mets have sent offers to the Twins for Santana. Mariners is likely to include Adam Jones and Brandon Morrow. However, it's questionable whether Santana would waive his NTC to play in Seattle. The Mets' offer does NOT include Jose Reyes. However, the Mets may be willing to part with Oliver Perez.

The Mariners? :confused:

And the Mets have no prayer if they dont include Reyes. Their farm system is pretty thin with blue chips since the shine has come off guys like Pelfrey and Humber. Not sure what value Oliver Perez has? He's a back of the rotation guy prone to wild bouts of inconsistency.

Mets won't bite. They barely have enough resources to get an ace which is their #1 priority. The last thing they'll do is get ANOTHER catcher and a project pitcher.

LOL Dontrelle Willis is a "project pitcher" now? :confused: The guy's one season removed from being a 20 game winner.

[Spidey-Bat]

Peter Gammons is such an unbelievable Red Sox homer is sickens me sometimes. I think he'll literally have a boner on camera if they get Santana
I guess that's why he thinks the Twins will hold onto Santana.

And the Mets have no prayer if they dont include Reyes. Their farm system is pretty thin with blue chips since the shine has come off guys like Pelfrey and Humber. Not sure what value Oliver Perez has? He's a back of the rotation guy prone to wild bouts of inconsistency.
Mets have a chance. It's small, but there's a chance. Perez is a good pitcher. He has wild games but a lot of the times it's because his arm angle drops and he begins to throw side-arm. The more he retains it, the better his control will be. He would instantly go into the Twins rotation. He's definitely better than Jon Lester. Now and probably in the future.

LOL Dontrelle Willis is a "project pitcher" now? :confused: The guy's one season removed from being a 20 game winner.
He is a project pitcher. Don't let the name fool you. His ERA has gone up the past 3 three seasons, his WHIP took a huge leap from 1.13 to 1.42 (this year it was 1.60). His IP have decreased, hits and BB increased and his strikeouts have decreased. Unless he gets proper coaching, he's in trouble.

[Spidey-Bat]

Here's a quote from Ron Gardenhire (Twins manager for those who don't know).

“We have to get people back that are going to help us in the major leagues. Everybody thinks that we’re just launching people. That’s not the case, or Santana would have been traded.”

I'm beginning to think that Santana will NOT be moved this season. I could see him changing his mind to go to a contender at the deadline if the Twins are out of it.

Twins-60%
Red Sox-20%
Yankees-10%
Mets-6%
Dodgers-4%

That's how I rank it.

[NewYorkSpider]

Like I said a page or two ago, the Twins can still have a good year next season if they keep Santana. If they get another strong bat for next season they can contend for the division or wild card.

[Jerry!]

Gammons doesn't need Viagra or Cialis. All he needs is a short highlight video of the Red Sox. Thats his "porn".

[NewYorkSpider]

I just started reading A-Rod's contract, then I stopped because it was so long. :o

[cyborg ninja 14]

Apparently Andruw Jones signed with the Dodgers
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071205&content_id=2319266&vkey=hotstove2007&fext=.jsp