Where to start now?

[BritishChap007]

Hey all,

I have been reading the comic boards as of late and have found that The Spider-Man comics are in a state of disarray as of late. I can't make sense of half the things you guys have been talking about!

So, if I wanted to pick up with one Spidey line now, what would that be and why?

Or, should I forget current Spider-Man and just read all the comics I have on the 11 CD-ROM Collection "40 Years of the Amazing Spider-Man"?

[VICTORVONDOOMX]

Pick up Amazing once Brand New Day starts... It'll be a fresh start, you'll get in on the ground floor.

But if you want some of the best stuff ever written spend the next week on your CD-ROM reading Amazing 50 to 150. You'll thank me later.

[BritishChap007]

Pick up Amazing once Brand New Day starts... It'll be a fresh start, you'll get in on the ground floor.

But if you want some of the best stuff ever written spend the next week on your CD-ROM reading Amazing 50 to 150. You'll thank me later.

When does BND start?

And 50 through 150? Got it (though I think it will take more than a week:cwink: )

[Blader5489]

When does BND start?

January

[co2]

The only one worth reading..the only one that makes you feel like you got your money's worth is Ultimate Spidey. And I stick to the hardcovers or trades so I really get my money's worth.

[VICTORVONDOOMX]

Ultimate = crap

[JJJ's Ulcer]

The only one worth reading..the only one that makes you feel like you got your money's worth is Ultimate Spidey. And I stick to the hardcovers or trades so I really get my money's worth.



Yeah, if you like your comics to read like a badly scripted version of 'The OC'. Puleeeaze! Ultimate is the most overrated comic since Spawn. Derivative plots that aren't as good as the original concepts they rip off, dialogue that's slow, plodding and goes absolutely nowhere and protracted plots that could be told in one issue but are spread over six. The awful dialogue especially is grating, because it's not more realistic as some people claim, it doesn't read like real life, it reads like an ego-driven writer who tries to fill up space with repetitive word balloons when he runs out of ideas.

The current JMS run is by no means good either, but its had its bright spots like Back in Black which I enjoyed. And the back-issues of Sensational and Friendly are well worth getting. But the only good thing about Ultimate is its art. Or make that the only good thing WAS the art, since Bagley is gone now.

[Doc_OCK_4MUGEN]

Avoid Ultimate Spidey like the plague... Stick to the REAL Spider-man (although right now he's a little messed up right now...) Ultimate Universe is a cheap knock-off of the real universe... It takes a dump on 40+ years of continuity and fills it up with umms... and uhhhs... For lazy people who don't want to look for the classic stories of the REAL SPIDER-MAN... If you can get your hands on Kraven's Last Hunt... do so. It's one of the best if not THE BEST spidey story ever... IMHO

Why settle for an imitation when you can have the real deal?

[co2]

Avoid Ultimate Spidey like the plague... Stick to the REAL Spider-man (although right now he's a little messed up right now...) Ultimate Universe is a cheap knock-off of the real universe... It takes a dump on 40+ years of continuity and fills it up with umms... and uhhhs... For lazy people who don't want to look for the classic stories of the REAL SPIDER-MAN... If you can get your hands on Kraven's Last Hunt... do so. It's one of the best if not THE BEST spidey story ever... IMHO

Why settle for an imitation when you can have the real deal?

Well, Kraven's Last Hunt is one of my favorite Spidey stories of all time. I thought the question was about current or ongoing runs. And as far as that goes, I tried dipping my toe into 616 continuity and it seemed to have just lost it. Ultimate Spidey seems to be the most pure form of Spidey out there to me. And Bagley's art made it so cinematic.

Now if you are talking about classic stories, it's a whole other issue.

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Typical page of dialogue from Ultimate Spider-Man.

Peter: Hey...

MJ: Hey.

Peter: How are you?

MJ: Good.

Peter: So...

MJ: So?

Peter: Well...

MJ: Yes?

Peter: Wait...

MJ: Yes?

Peter: Well, I just wanted to say...

MJ: Oh there's the bell for class. Let's continue this drawn out conversation that goes nowhere next issue!


See, kids? Anyone can write a page of Bendis' Ultimate dialogue! :woot:

[Spec Spider-Man]

Typical page of dialogue from Ultimate Spider-Man.

Peter: Hey...

MJ: Hey.

Peter: How are you?

MJ: Good.

Peter: So...

MJ: So?

Peter: Well...

MJ: Yes?

Peter: Wait...

MJ: Yes?

Peter: Well, I just wanted to say...

MJ: Oh there's the bell for class. Let's continue this drawn out conversation that goes nowhere next issue!


See, kids? Anyone can write a page of Bendis' Ultimate dialogue! :woot:

LOL!

[Blader5489]

Ultimate Spider-Man is still leagues better than 616 Spidey. There's a tighter sense of continuity and more realistic tone to it than what you would see in Amazing, FNSM, etc.

[The Joker]

Ultimate Spider-Man is still leagues better than 616 Spidey. There's a tighter sense of continuity and more realistic tone to it than what you would see in Amazing, FNSM, etc.

Ultimate Spider-Man is just feeding off the ideas from the past 40+ years of 616 continuity.

[co2]

Ultimate Spider-Man is just feeding off the ideas from the past 40+ years of 616 continuity.

Yeah, and being an oldschool fan, I like that.

That or I sometimes pick up trades of the older 616 stuff.

[co2]

Ultimate Spider-Man is just feeding off the ideas from the past 40+ years of 616 continuity.

double post

[wolvie2020]

Hey all,

I have been reading the comic boards as of late and have found that The Spider-Man comics are in a state of disarray as of late. I can't make sense of half the things you guys have been talking about!

So, if I wanted to pick up with one Spidey line now, what would that be and why?

Or, should I forget current Spider-Man and just read all the comics I have on the 11 CD-ROM Collection "40 Years of the Amazing Spider-Man"?


Well, lots of cray things have been going on latley.

And despite the amount of complaining that goes on in comic boards, it's a fact that sales or generally on the up and there is some really cool stuff out there.

I'm not saying that I love EVERYTHING, but there is stuff worth reading.

If you REALLy want to be up to speed properly, you'd have to pick up the trade paperbacks of Civil War, Amazing Spider-Man: Civil War, and Spider-Man: Black in Black.

Right now through all the Spider-Man titles is a 4 part arc titled 'One More Day.' It's the last big shake up for Spider-Man for a while, and will leave a lasting impact on Spider-Man comics that hasn't been seen in a very long time. It's being drawn by Marvel editor in chief Joe Quseada himself.

If you're a newbie, or don't have major problems with Peter Parker not being marries to Mary Jane, you'll probably dig it. One of the major problems everyone, (on these boards,) has with the story, is that all signs are pointing to them finding a way of having Peter Parker's and Mary Janes marriage being wiped from existence.

That's been on JQ'a agenda for a while, (even according to him, although he's been known to lie too. He like to stir the pot, lol)

That's about it for the current Spidey world, but what's happening in Jan is all other Spider-Man titles are being cancelled and Amazing Spider-Man will be shipping 3 times a month and being handled by some of the hottest talent in the industry. I'm reserving jusdgment until I read all of One More Day and Brand New Day starts.

Hope that helps :up:

[Blader5489]

Ultimate Spider-Man is just feeding off the ideas from the past 40+ years of 616 continuity.

Yeah, that's kind of the point: reinventing old ideas. It makes it just recognizable enough for old school readers, while still being different enough to stand on its own legs.

[Spider-ManHero12]

As I have said before, I was never really a fan of Ultimate Spider-Man. They changed too many things, for example: Green Goblin.

[Themanofbat]

When does BND start?

And 50 through 150? Got it (though I think it will take more than a week:cwink: )

I'll even extend that a bit further and say read until issue #200. :word: :word: :word:

You could read until #251, but you'd have to endure about a dozen terrible issues by Bat-scribe Denis O'Neil, who had a terrible run from issues #207 to 219. But once Roger Stern jumped on the book, it started getting really good.

:yay:

[co2]

Ya know what is missing from comics now?...good narration. Comics now are so devoid of a narrator's voice and I'm not sure why there was such a shift away from that. Stan really poured that stuff on, and at times he was a little too much tongue in cheek for me. But go back and read some of the good Wolfman or Mantlo stuff. The narrative would make it so much more riveting and it would feel like comic books were elevated to epic literature sometimes. I know there isn't as much of a need for a narrator with comics as there is a novel, since comics are so visual, but good narration really lends itself to a story. That seems to be such a lost art.

[DACrowe]

I actually recommend depending on your CD ROM resources (and buying key back issues with you r favorite characters/major plot points or just the essiential line) ASM #1 to about ASM #350 while having ups and lows are a great continuity of stories where you'll see Peter go through high school, college, drop out of grad school, date, fall in love, lose, marry and some of the greatest stories ever written in comicdom (Spider-Man: No More, Death of Gwen Stacy/Green Goblin, the Hobgoblin saga, Gang War, Kraven's Last Hunt, anything with Lizard, etc.

Also the last SSM 70-100 was very good in the '80s and 180-200 features one ofo the greatest sagas of all Spidey comicdom (the return of Harry's Green Goblin and his fall from grace).

Good stuff. Once you hit the Clone saga I really don't see there being any great incentive to continue, but if so quit before Mackie's Relaunch or at least Sin's Past mid way through JMS's run (which began well, but has ended sooooooooooooo badly).

[BritishChap007]

Im not sure what to do. I should probably just read the issues on my CD-Roms and wait for January.

Almost everyone says avoid Ultimate, so I guess I will.

I think it's a good idea to just have one line of comics.

Im not quite up on all of the terminology. What does JMS stand for?

I still can't get the Marvel site to work on my CPU though.

Anyway, thanks for all the help thus far everyone!

[Blader5489]

Almost everyone says avoid Ultimate, so I guess I will.

They're only saying to avoid USM because they're hypocritical purists. If you want to read good, 21st century Spidey stories, then you can't go wrong with Ultimate.

Sensational (vol. 2 - formerly "Marvel Knights: Spider-Man") has also been pretty good, but that is coming to an end.

[The Joker]

Yeah, that's kind of the point: reinventing old ideas. It makes it just recognizable enough for old school readers, while still being different enough to stand on its own legs.

But, it's nothing revolutionary. Just old ideas being tweaked. You say it has tight continuity. Of course it does. It's only over a hundred issues, and only ever been written by one person. Nothing impressive about that.

Hard not to keep that in continuity.

They're only saying to avoid USM because they're hypocritical purists.

Or maybe people just genuinely think it's a crappy title.

You can be really ignorant and hypocritical sometimes.

[Feature]

If you want to read a book about Peter Parker coping to be both Spider-Man and a regular teenager, pick up Ultimate Spider-Man. It's all the things Spider-Man should be and all the things it used to be in the 616 Universe in its hey day.

If you want to read about Spider-Man revealing his identity to the entire world, getting his powers from a Spider-God, battling the villain from the fifth Spider-Man movie :huh: and Mary Jane being a superhero in a really terrible costume, by all means, pick up Brand New Day! It will save you from having to buy toilet paper.

[JJJ's Ulcer]

They're only saying to avoid USM because they're hypocritical purists. If you want to read good, 21st century Spidey stories, then you can't go wrong with Ultimate.

Sensational (vol. 2 - formerly "Marvel Knights: Spider-Man") has also been pretty good, but that is coming to an end.

Do you even know what "hypocritical" means or do you just like throwing that word around? I can't speak for anyone else, but there's nothing hypocritical about my disdain for Ultimate. Like I already explained, I hate USM because it takes seven issues to tell a story that could be told in one or two and because the dialogue is wildly overrated and groan-inducing. If it took place in 616, my thoughts would probably be the same.

[Jack O'Lantern]

While Brand New Day is a good jumping on point (in terms of a new story line, new writer, etc) its not gonna be a good story. Just my opinion.

[Doc_OCK_4MUGEN]

They're only saying to avoid USM because they're hypocritical purists. If you want to read good, 21st century Spidey stories, then you can't go wrong with Ultimate.

Go with Ultimate If you like a watered down version of Spidey... It's like buying a steak... but Instead of buying the juicy steak you buy a piece of cardboard dunked in steak sauce... because a hip writer calls it steak...

It's true that Modern Spidey (circa 2003-today) is very screwed up. Compared to the P.O.S. modern spidey, knock-off Spidey looks good, but none of them can surpass CLASSIC SPIDEY... (1960s to 1980s)

I TRIED to like Ultimate even with my Earth-1610-phobia...
but the comics were lackluster... the only good thing was the art... and now they've got nothing...

[farmernudie]

Imo, I'd stick with the classic stuff for now...

I mean, your only real choices right now are

a.) Ultimate Spider-Man

or...

b.) "Ultimate Amazing" Spider-Man

:csad:

[Blader5489]

Do you even know what "hypocritical" means or do you just like throwing that word around?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it hypocritical to accuse USM of just rehashing 616 ideas but then knocking it for any departures it takes from the original comics? For example, you have spider-manhero12 saying that Ultimate Green Goblin is too different from his 616 counterpart, but if he was the same as the 616 version then people would accuse Bendis of being unoriginal.

Is that not hypocrisy?

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it hypocritical to accuse USM of just rehashing 616 ideas but then knocking it for any departures it takes from the original comics? For example, you have spider-manhero12 saying that Ultimate Green Goblin is too different from his 616 counterpart, but if he was the same as the 616 version then people would accuse Bendis of being unoriginal.

Is that not hypocrisy?

I can't speak for him, but perhaps like me, he thinks the concept of any Green Goblin being a giant, lumbering, non-verbose, green hulk rip-off is incredibly retarded and takes away all the drama and tension from the Parker-Osborn rivalry. I read the first USM arc with him in it and it made the movie-version look good. Perhaps these people aren't hypocrites. Perhaps they just think they're.... wait for it.... bad stories and bad concepts.

[wolvie2020]

Im not sure what to do. I should probably just read the issues on my CD-Roms and wait for January.

Almost everyone says avoid Ultimate, so I guess I will.

I think it's a good idea to just have one line of comics.

Im not quite up on all of the terminology. What does JMS stand for?

I still can't get the Marvel site to work on my CPU though.

Anyway, thanks for all the help thus far everyone!

Brand New Day will also be a good start... If you need to catch up I guess you can always read wikipedia :up:

Honestly, I'd say to make ur own judgment of Ultimate Spider-Man. I was one of those people that said I'd never get it, but after trying to ig nore it for a while, my sister made me realise I was beng silly. She got me to read the 1st lot of stories, and the were VERY good.

Over the last couple of years the quality has gone up and down, but it never got below fun IMO

In all honesty, a lot of the views in certain message boards can be one sided... So I guess it must be hard for you to make a decision. All I can tell you is that I've been really honest with what I've said, and I've been reading SPider-Man comics for about 20 years, (damn!) so that must count for something, I hope, lol

:word:

[wolvie2020]

While Brand New Day is a good jumping on point (in terms of a new story line, new writer, etc) its not gonna be a good story. Just my opinion.

Have you read the book?

Tha's like saying I'm going to kill myself now as I'm pretty sure as 2009 will drive me to it...

Ur glass half empty kind of guy aren't ya?

:cwink:

[Feature]

I don't think we need to get into a big fight over which is better. That fight has been fought too many times. At least now this guys knows that he can either jump on with Brand New Day, or he can start collecting USM. People have expressed what they like and dislike about both options and we all agreed it would be a good idea for him to pick up some classic 616 books. We've done our job. Happy reading! Please don't tear eachother's faces off over this.

[BritishChap007]

Yeah, thanks everyone.

I think BND will be good, because it's a new start (?)

I think it might be to late to jump onto the USM train.

I will also read the Amazing Archives I got.

Thanks again everyone!

Anyone else got anymore advice? Do you guys usually subscribe or just buy them at the stores?

[wolvie2020]

buy 'em frm stores, subcriptions ofen get damaged in the post

[VICTORVONDOOMX]

Like I already explained, I hate USM because it takes seven issues to tell a story that could be told in one or two and because the dialogue is wildly overrated and groan-inducing.
Exactly. Same here.
Decompressed storytelling = LAZY but likes getting paid

[Blader5489]

Every book has decompressed storytelling now, I don't see how this is USM's fault.

[Themanofbat]

Since you have the ASM collection on CD, that's cool, but you might want ot get some of the other Spider-Man Essentials (if you don't mind the black & white pages), such as Spectacular Spider-Man and Marvel Team-Up.

Also, and I'm not sure if they'll be there, but Marvel is launching a Digital Comics Library with a reasonable monthly fee to read their old books on your computer. You might want to look into that once it kicks in.

And last but certainly not least, you might want to try and read from the Donald Thomas On-Line Spider-Man Library.

Just click the link and tell him TMoB sent ya... :cwink:

http://www.donaldspidermanthomas.com/html/

:yay:

[CaptainStacy]

Do you even know what "hypocritical" means or do you just like throwing that word around? I can't speak for anyone else, but there's nothing hypocritical about my disdain for Ultimate. Like I already explained, I hate USM because it takes seven issues to tell a story that could be told in one or two and because the dialogue is wildly overrated and groan-inducing.


Bingo. I grew bored with USM a long time ago, for these very reasons.

[Spider-ManHero12]

I can't speak for him, but perhaps like me, he thinks the concept of any Green Goblin being a giant, lumbering, non-verbose, green hulk rip-off is incredibly retarded and takes away all the drama and tension from the Parker-Osborn rivalry. You are exactly right. the rivalry between Peter and Norman in the 1960's and 1970's was one of the biggest things in the comic's. It's not only that, the Green Goblin should have a costume and not be some monster roaring.

Don't get me wrong though. If BritishChap007 wants to read Ultimate Spider-Man, then thats fine. We all have different opinions. I just wish 616 Spidey had stories like it used to, It's all Joe Quesadas fault. I still will continue to read 616 Spidey though.

[co2]

Yeah, thanks everyone.

I think BND will be good, because it's a new start (?)

I think it might be to late to jump onto the USM train.

I will also read the Amazing Archives I got.

Thanks again everyone!

Anyone else got anymore advice? Do you guys usually subscribe or just buy them at the stores?

I only buy hardcovers and trades. It's usually much cheaper than buying the single issues (especially if you buy from an online retailer like Amazon or Wal-mart), you get no adds, you don't have to wait months to get a complete story arc, and you usually get bonus features. The only thing it requires is patience because you are usually six months to a year behind when the comic actually came out. But you can always find different trades to occupy your time while you wait on another to hit the stands. Plus the trades and hardcovers are more durable paper stock, look better on a bookshelf, and if you tire of them, they are easy to sell to a used book store. Too many reasons not to buy the trades. As well, you can find them at most good book shops, where the comics you cannot.
And let's face it..collecting for value is pointless now. The only comics that are of any real value are from the 60's and back. The reason is they are rare. Since the time collecting comics became a big hobby, nothing is going to be of significant value because they aren't rare. So if anyone has delusions of collecting modern comics to some day cash in on their value, I've got news for ya. The only thing you are collecting is a giant fire hazard in your home. Just buy something if you think it is a good read and enjoy it for what it is worth.

I know you have the CD collection, but to me there is something grand about print. I'm tactile so it makes me feel good to have pages to flip through and back to and study at my leisure (good art makes you do that) whether you are sitting on the sofa, reading in bed, or taking a book along on a road trip. Paper just seems more attractive to me than having to sit at a desk and stare at a monitor like I am now.
or was...LATER

[Blader5489]

I just wish 616 Spidey had stories like it used to, It's all Joe Quesadas fault.

Wtf? How about it's all Bob Harras' fault?

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Wtf? How about it's all Bob Harras' fault?

To use an analogy, that's like saying it's all Bill Clinton's fault.

Harras aint in charge and hasn't been for a loooong time. When that poster says it's Joe Quesada's fault, he's talking about stuff going on NOW, not a decade ago.

[Gideon2K1]

BND = Heroes Reborn = What is this flamming pile of $#!+

[Themanofbat]

BND = Heroes Reborn = What is this flamming pile of $#!+

I love how everybody is putting a label on something they have yet to see...

:whatever: :whatever: :whatever:

[Blader5489]

To use an analogy, that's like saying it's all Bill Clinton's fault.

Harras aint in charge and hasn't been for a loooong time. When that poster says it's Joe Quesada's fault, he's talking about stuff going on NOW, not a decade ago.

But if you want to pin the blame for the decline in Spider-Man story quality on someone, then pin the blame on Harras. His reign was rife with awful decisions that make The Unmasking and One More Day look like Shakespeare by comparison.

For example, Aunt May would still be dead were it not for Harras. We wouldn't have had to go through that awful relaunch (pre-JMS) were it not for Harras. And so on.

[JJJ's Ulcer]

But if you want to pin the blame for the decline in Spider-Man story quality on someone, then pin the blame on Harras. His reign was rife with awful decisions that make The Unmasking and One More Day look like Shakespeare by comparison.

For example, Aunt May would still be dead were it not for Harras. We wouldn't have had to go through that awful relaunch (pre-JMS) were it not for Harras. And so on.

Quesada has basically made a career out of undoing the Spider-marriage. That was not under Harras' tenure. Quesada's current mess of the books has nothing to do with Harras, since the stories from that era are mostly ignored anyway. The ghost of Harras isn't making the current-day Spidey books suck. The current-day spidey books are making the current-day spidey books suck, so don't give me that crap passing-the-buck argument. Books such as Daredevil, Hulk and Captain America have all rebounded with good runs after mediocre runs, without any drastic revamps or relaunches. All it takes to make a good book is a good writer and a smart editorial direction. Everything that's come before can be left there and is irrelevant. I think even Quesada himself would admit your argument is a hollow one.

[wolvie2020]

But if you want to pin the blame for the decline in Spider-Man story quality on someone, then pin the blame on Harras. His reign was rife with awful decisions that make The Unmasking and One More Day look like Shakespeare by comparison.

For example, Aunt May would still be dead were it not for Harras. We wouldn't have had to go through that awful relaunch (pre-JMS) were it not for Harras. And so on.

That's very true. Did you SEE the state of Spidey books when JQ had to take over...?

[BritishChap007]

Hey everyone,

what do they mean by "the villian from the fifth Spidey movie" on the site?

[wolvie2020]

Hey everyone,

what do they mean by "the villian from the fifth Spidey movie" on the site?

From the Spider-Man in Feb thread;

Didn't you hear :huh:

Larroca is super hyped about this, and has gone nutso being the 1st guys to really go for the movie costume consistently through his (spidey,) books.

After seeing the results, Whacker, Breevort and Quesada (seem to,) really go for it.

Thus the 5th Spider-Man villain movie joke in the solicits...

To be honest, I think those Larroa covers are sweet

Hope he delivers with the interiors...