Captain America

[PaulGilbert]

When he comes back, which he will, The Cap needs a serious power boost. There's only so many times you can say he used his superior military training, master strategy or leadership skills to overcome an enemy. I would prefere they gave him low end Super-Human strength at the minimun. This would then atleast allow him to have believable confrontations with other charecters. I wouldnt mind as much but he does get into fights that he would just be destroyed in. The Scan over in the Marvels Strongest thread over Cap K.Oing The Hulk is ridiculous for something with 'Human' strength.

[wolvie2020]

Well, from Marvel.com;

"Powers
Captain America represented the pinnacle of human physical perfection. He experienced a time when he was augmented to superhuman levels, but generally performed just below superhuman levels for most of his career. Captain America had a very high intelligence as well as agility, strength, speed, endurance, and reaction time superior to any Olympic athlete who ever competed. The Super-Soldier formula that he had metabolized had enhanced all of his bodily functions to the peak of human efficiency. Most notably, his body eliminates the excessive build-up of fatigue-producing poisons in his muscles, granting him phenomenal endurance.

Abilities
Captain America had mastered the martial arts of American-style boxing and judo, and had combined these disciplines with his own unique hand-to-hand style of combat. He had also shown skill and knowledge of a number of other martial arts. He engaged in a daily regimen of rigorous exercise (including aerobics, weight lifting, gymnastics, and simulated combat) to keep himself in peak condition. Captain America was one of the finest human combatants Earth had ever known."

I think it's pretty cool for Cap to have these powers. Not only that, I think making him TOO powerful distorts the idea of who Cap is. He is what we should all be aspire to be... Take him too far with his powers, and he's no longer someone we can aspire to be.

IMO

[PaulGilbert]

I think it's pretty cool for Cap to have these powers. Not only that, I think making him TOO powerful distorts the idea of who Cap is. He is what we should all be aspire to be... Take him too far with his powers, and he's no longer someone we can aspire to be.

IMO

I'd say I agree, but if they are to put him in confrontations with charecters that are infinatly more powerful and have him come out on top or as often hold his own he should have a power up because many of these things just seem too unbelievable.

[November Rain]

I think steve should retire when he gets back and only come out of service for hardcore events.

Captain america should be an idea rather than a person, the idea that one man can make a difference and be a representative to everyone out there to keep fighting.

[Steve Rogers]

What makes Cap so great is Steve Rogers and not the serum and powers. I love the fact that he uses his leadership skills and nother things that can not be learned or engrained by serum, radiation or some other cheap method. Cap is awesome because he is a super hero with out being all that super.

To give him superhuman abilities and have him rely on these would cheapen the character and really piss me off.

[November Rain]

what about giving him superpowers and still not have him rely on them

[PaulGilbert]

what about giving him superpowers and still not have him rely on them

:up:

He can still be 'Steve' with the same ideals but woulld realistically be able to compete with various others.

That way scenes like this can be avoided...Just one example of him being over-written.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l267/PsychoManCB/14-15.jpg

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l267/PsychoManCB/16.jpg

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l267/PsychoManCB/17.jpg

[Steve Rogers]

what about giving him superpowers and still not have him rely on themWhy "give" him anything? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. That's the way I look it at. Other than this dude, I've never heard anyone complain that Cap needs more powers, so I don't think the general population has a problem with him. So, why change him? That's the way I look at it. I love how Steve is just a bad ass soldier. He's like Rambo with a shield. Sometimes gamma rays and thunder gods and star gods and all gets to be too much. My two favorite Marvel characters are Cap and Daredevil. I like them because their, as I said before, superheroes who aren't all that super.

[PaulGilbert]

Why "give" him anything? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. That's the way I look it at. Other than this dude, I've never heard anyone complain that Cap needs more powers, so I don't think the general population has a problem with him. So, why change him? That's the way I look at it. I love how Steve is just a bad ass soldier. He's like Rambo with a shield. Sometimes gamma rays and thunder gods and star gods and all gets to be too much. My two favorite Marvel characters are Cap and Daredevil. I like them because their, as I said before, superheroes who aren't all that super.

Thats fine but then stick to Steve fighting lesser powered villains. Not have him laying The Hulk out...

[Steve Rogers]

:up:

He can still be 'Steve' with the same ideals but woulld realistically be able to compete with various others.

That way scenes like this can be avoided...Just one example of him being over-written.But that's who he is. That's the point. He'll go up against the Hulk with nothing but a shield, like the WWII infantryman who went up against Hitler's Atlantic Wall with nothing but an M-1.

[Steve Rogers]

Thats fine but then stick to Steve fighting street level atleast. Not laying The Hulk out...Why? He's a great leader and a hell of a tactician. He only gets into these huge cosmic fights with the Avengers now anyway. And, like a Captain, he's the leader and the strategist. Can Cap beat every villain one on one? No, but he can lead the overall assault and have the Avengers as a whole defeat any enemy they encounter.

[PaulGilbert]

But that's who he is. That's the point. He'll go up against the Hulk with nothing but a shield, like the WWII infantryman who went up against Hitler's Atlantic Wall with nothing but an M-1.

Even in the realm of the Marvel universe that is pushing believibillity. A monster that often beats or stalemates beings like Thor and The Jugganaut being K.O'd by a human (which is just bad writing) could be avoided if Steve were given a power boost.

[Steve Rogers]

I don't what issue you are referring to, but other than the Ultimates I don't remember him KOing the Hulk. But regardless, the power is in the shield. Notice he doesn't hit him with his fists?

Not all fights are about stregnth. David and Goliath, my friend.

[PaulGilbert]

I don't what issue you are referring to, but other than the Ultimates I don't remember him KOing the Hulk. But regardless, the power is in the shield. Notice he doesn't hit him with his fists?

Not all fights are about stregnth. David and Goliath, my friend.

David couldnt lay out Goliath with an upper-cut, lol.

Saying the power is in the shield doesnt fly. The power that apparently k.o'd the Hulk is in the force driving the shield, ie...Cap. At current power levels he would not have nearly enough strength to move the Hulk with a hit like that let alone send him reeling. He'd more likely brake his arm in trying...It could be compared to Batman having a fist fight with Superman. Not only this example either - cap has gone toe to toe with physically superior beings on numerous occasions, trading blows with meta-humans etc.

[Steve Rogers]

You're starting to sound like a Hulk fan boy who's pissed because the Hulk got beat by someone. What issue is this coming from? I have almost every Cap issue ever (not the expensive ones of course) and I don't recall this scene anywhere.

[November Rain]

i think it's a spidey issue

[Steve Rogers]

i think it's a spidey issue
Oh, so he's passing judgement on Captain America, based on something he read in Spider-Man.

[PaulGilbert]

You're starting to sound like a Hulk fan boy who's pissed because the Hulk got beat by someone. What issue is this coming from? I have almost every Cap issue ever (not the expensive ones of course) and I don't recall this scene anywhere.

I like Cap ALOT - he's in my top 5 characters. You're the one sounding like a fanboy - immediatly pulling the 'fanboy' card :whatever: . I suggest you scroll up if you want to see the example I've been using...There are countless more...

[KangConquers]

it's from Captain America, Fallen Son.

Yes it is overwriting Cap.

If Cap had taken down Hulk a different way, it might not have been so bad; Cap is the best fighter in all of marvel (at least out of A-list characters anyway) and the idea that he can take stronger beings down is not out of the question. The problem is this is the freaking Hulk...Cap would have to go Judo and use Hulk's own momentum against him to knock him out, rather than doing it like he was Thor.

[November Rain]

Why "give" him anything? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. That's the way I look it at. Other than this dude, I've never heard anyone complain that Cap needs more powers, so I don't think the general population has a problem with him. So, why change him? That's the way I look at it. I love how Steve is just a bad ass soldier. He's like Rambo with a shield. Sometimes gamma rays and thunder gods and star gods and all gets to be too much. My two favorite Marvel characters are Cap and Daredevil. I like them because their, as I said before, superheroes who aren't all that super.
I don't mind cap being grounded but in specifically bad situations he should play more of a defensive role (with his shield) and strategise the others to do the offensive work. Kinda like eric in the 80s cartoon dungeons and dragons.

http://hometown.aol.co.uk/milliemoo99/home/dadgroup.jpg

I don't mind him being brave enough to get stuck in but some of the feats he pulls off are damn near impossible.


As for the idea i gave, it's not essential but i do think it helps for potentially a story where cap loses his sense of uniqueness by getting a small power boost.

Other than that, it helped with his battles in ultimates where he can fight with the hulk, hold his own against a child spidey and also fight normal soldiers and not particularly stand out.

AT the very least provide him with defensive powers like increased endurance and low level invulnerability so there is reasoning behind him being able to take a bashing (apart from his shield).

[Steve Rogers]

I like Cap ALOT - he's in my top 5 characters. You're the one sounding like a fanboy - immediatly pulling the 'fanboy' card :whatever: . I suggest you scroll up if you want to see the example I've been using...There are countless more...Um, I have scrolled up and I asked where you got that from. There are countless examples, huh? You know about them all and I don't? Who's the fanboy now?

[PaulGilbert]

Um, I have scrolled up and I asked where you got that from. There are countless examples, huh? You know about them all and I don't? Who's the fanboy now?

KangConquers has already adressed where it is from. Thanks for playing though.....you did try :o.

Back to normal discussion.

As November said alot of Cap's feats seem completly impossible. I basically agree with everything she's said. I think a power boost, even if relitively small could validate alot of the over the top things Cap is somehow able to do against the 'bigger guns'.

[Steve Rogers]

it's from Captain America, Fallen Son.

Yes it is overwriting Cap.

If Cap had taken down Hulk a different way, it might not have been so bad; Cap is the best fighter in all of marvel (at least out of A-list characters anyway) and the idea that he can take stronger beings down is not out of the question. The problem is this is the freaking Hulk...Cap would have to go Judo and use Hulk's own momentum against him to knock him out, rather than doing it like he was Thor.
Agreed, but initially this conversation was about something else entirely and had blossomed into I hate the fact that Cap beat the Hulk. Every time I come back into this thread there is a new picture added that wasn't there before. I don't know if that has something to do with the conncection. When I commented on it, the only picture I could see was the wide two page spread, which I didn't see as overwriting. But in all of Cap Vol. 2, 3, 4 and 5, he's not smacking gigantic monsters around. Has Cap been overwritten at times? Sure. Name one character that hasn't. But it's not a flaw in Cap's character; it's bad writing.

[Steve Rogers]

What up Kang, long time no see.

[Darthphere]

Good God, it's like those stupid lets give Batman powers already idea. No, and no.

[Steve Rogers]

Thank you.

[Darthphere]

If you can believe a radioactive spider gave some loser powers instead of cancer, then why is it so hard to believe that some loser who got injected with some stuff and became stronger than most regular men can beat down the Hulk?

[Steve Rogers]

Steve? A loser?

[November Rain]

If you can believe a radioactive spider gave some loser powers instead of cancer, then why is it so hard to believe that some loser who got injected with some stuff and became stronger than most regular men can beat down the Hulk?
Isn't this just a flavour of the month attitude

ie dishonouring one character in order to promote another, instead of perhaps being fair to both of them?

I konw it really doesn't count for toss in a fictional universe but still, it should count as a way of giving dues to the creator and the decades of back history that has provided one with an income?

[Darthphere]

Steve? A loser?

Steve Rogers before the serum was just some loser kid with some balls.:o

"Testicular fortitude"

[Darthphere]

Isn't this just a flavour of the month attitude

ie dishonouring one character in order to promote another, instead of perhaps being fair to both of them?

I konw it really doesn't count for toss in a fictional universe but still, it should count as a way of giving dues to the creator and the decades of back history that has provided one with an income?

:huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh:

[Steve Rogers]

Steve Rogers before the serum was just some loser kid with some balls.:o

"Testicular fortitude"So are you saying the serum makes Cap and not Steve?

[Darthphere]

So are you saying the serum makes Cap and not Steve?

Not exactly. The serum gave him a means to an end. Before the serum, I repeat, Steve Rogers would just be some lanky kid with some really big balls. He has the heart, the courage, the moral compass, but without the serum, again, he's just some kid.

[Steve Rogers]

Not exactly. The serum gave him a means to an end. Before the serum, I repeat, Steve Rogers would just be some lanky kid with some really big balls. He has the heart, the courage, the moral compass, but without the serum, again, he's just some kid.
Agreed. But I don't think he was ever a loser.

[Darthphere]

Agreed. But I don't think he was ever a loser.

Well loser is a term I use for lanky unathletic kids.:huh:

[Steve Rogers]

Well loser is a term I use for lanky unathletic kids.:huh:
Oh okay, I always think of a loser as a pathetic f**k up.

[November Rain]

:huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh:
in short, don't bite the hand that feeds ya by taking liberties with their stuff

[Steve Rogers]

I think what November Rain is trying to say is that if the powers of Cap are not changed, then the Hulk's shouldn't be either. I think.

[SonOfCthulhu]

Steve even floated this idea around back in the late 80's during the Power Broker storyline. He briefly considered upping his strength but dismissed it.

I'd say keep Cap the way he is.

[Shockdingo]

I agree with "Steve Rogers" (poster) and Darthphere, characters like Batman and Cap should not get powers(or new/ enhanced ones) I always liked that cap was a major player in the game of heroism, but he didn't have massive or flashy powers. Anyone with high power can mow stuff down, but it takes a special person with skill to take down engines of destruction by using smarts and skill.

[Steve Rogers]

I agree with "Steve Rogers" (poster) and Darthphere, characters like Batman and Cap should not get powers(or new/ enhanced ones) I always liked that cap was a major player in the game of heroism, but he didn't have massive or flashy powers. Anyone with high power can mow stuff down, but it takes a special person with skill to take down engines of destruction by using smarts and skill.
A-Men! Precisely the reason I like him so much.

[Mr. Green]

I'd say I agree, but if they are to put him in confrontations with charecters that are infinatly more powerful and have him come out on top or as often hold his own he should have a power up because many of these things just seem too unbelievable.
Paul Gilbert is one of my favorite guitar players of all time. :word:

[GoldenAgeHero]

I think steve should retire when he gets back and only come out of service for hardcore events.

Captain america should be an idea rather than a person, the idea that one man can make a difference and be a representative to everyone out there to keep fighting.


and that was steve rogers and why in the hell should he retire?!


Steve embodied all the elements America stands for. he's a true home grown American boy.

No one can ever replace Captain America/Steve Rogers imo.

[Steve Rogers]

Steve embodied all the elements America stands for. he's a true home grown American boy.

No one can ever replace Captain America/Steve Rogers imo.*applauds*

[LouFerignoDemon]

Well loser is a term I use for lanky unathletic kids.:huh:

"Pot, meet Kettle."

Pot: "Dude, you're black."

j/k I loves ya, Dodge. n.n:heart:

and that was steve rogers and why in the hell should he retire?!


Steve embodied all the elements America stands for. he's a true home grown American boy.

No one can ever replace Captain America/Steve Rogers imo.

You act like nobody else on the entire planet could possibly be like Steve Rogers.

If such is the case, then he didn't embody America at all, he simply embodied some random event named Steve Rogers.

[Steve Rogers]

"Pot, meet Kettle."

Pot: "Dude, you're black."

j/k I loves ya, Dodge. n.n:heart:



You act like nobody else on the entire planet could possibly be like Steve Rogers.

If such is the case, then he didn't embody America at all, he simply embodied some random event named Steve Rogers.I always thought Steve embodied everything that Americans should and could be.

[PaulGilbert]

Paul Gilbert is one of my favorite guitar players of all time. :word:

:up:

[November Rain]

and that was steve rogers and why in the hell should he retire?!


Steve embodied all the elements America stands for. he's a true home grown American boy.

No one can ever replace Captain America/Steve Rogers imo.
This just shows caps works better as a symbol rather than an actual 'offensive weapon'

In that issue highlighted earlier, spidey uses cap's memories as a symbol to help him take out the rhino. I think the flashbacks were taken too far, just having him step in to stop the blow would have sufficed, having him knock out the hulk is a lil extreme.

as for the whole 'element's jargan, that's just propaganda. I think steve rogers and captain america (the propaganda tool) represent two different things.

steve rogers is the hope (and standing up for the lil and bigger guys) and his main role. the propaganda tool was way back in the day and i don't think it's applicable anymore. We're not in the 60s anymore...

:o

[Steve Rogers]

steve rogers is the hope (and standing up for the lil and bigger guys) and his main role. the propaganda tool was way back in the day and i don't think it's applicable anymore. We're not in the 60s anymore...

:oI don't know. America is in a bad way now. That's why I think Cap is very applicable even today. I think Americans want and need a power symbol to unite behind. Something that is this opposite of the war, corruption, greed and downtrodden people that have come to symbolize America in recent years.

[GNR]

Hell no,leave Cap as is in the power dept.

[LouFerignoDemon]

I always thought Steve embodied everything that Americans should and could be.


He definitely does embody several of those traits, but I doubt he's the only person in all of existance who does.

[TheCorpulent1]

Spider-Man embodies them, too. Of course, part of the reason for that has been retconned to be his admiration for Cap.

[November Rain]

I don't know. America is in a bad way now. That's why I think Cap is very applicable even today. I think Americans want and need a power symbol to unite behind. Something that is this opposite of the war, corruption, greed and downtrodden people that have come to symbolize America in recent years.
that symbol is Steve rogers, not captain america.

[JackRembrandt]

I wonder if Peter could and/or would eventually grow into a Cap-like figure of integrity and leadership if Marvel ever let him grow up.

[November Rain]

Spider-Man embodies them, too. Of course, part of the reason for that has been retconned to be his admiration for Cap.
spidey's basically cap with powers a(and a lil head screw) when it comes to fighting

he never gives up and is always pretty much way out of his league in his fights yet he ploughs on.

It's just more exaggerated in cap so spidey is overlooked in that respect.

[TheCorpulent1]

I wonder if Peter could and/or would eventually grow into a Cap-like figure of integrity and leadership if Marvel ever let him grow up.
He grew into a surprisingly boring father in Spider-Girl. Seriously, I get that the series is about May, but he's been almost a complete non-entity in there. Mary Jane has far more of her classic, sassy personality than Peter has of his Spider-Man personality.

[JackRembrandt]

Hmm...I've never read Spider-Girl.

[TheCorpulent1]

It's good. Peter's just boring in it.

[JackRembrandt]

I'm not big on the MC2 Universe. It's supposed to take place in the future, but everything looks to 80's and 90's. It's gross.

[TheCorpulent1]

I like it. Average, every-day buildings and clothing haven't changed a whole lot in the last 10 or 15 years in reality. Granted, the state of electronics should probably be a lot more different, but I don't mind.

[JackRembrandt]

I'm talking about the costume designs and the bad mullets and pony tails.

[TheCorpulent1]

Oh, that's just Ron Frenz's fault. They weren't so bad when Oliffe was drawing it. I really wish someone other than Frenz would take over on SG.

[Steve Rogers]

that symbol is Steve rogers, not captain america.No, the symbol is Captain America. The stars, the stripes, the red, white, and blue. That's the symbol. But it's Steve that makes that symbol have a special meaning. That's how I look at it. What makes Cap so great isn't super soldier serum, martial arts training and a shield. It's Steve Rogers.

[JackRembrandt]

Oh, that's just Ron Frenz's fault. They weren't so bad when Oliffe was drawing it. I really wish someone other than Frenz would take over on SG.

I couldn't think of the name. Ron Frenz. He was the king for me, back in the day. His Thanos and Silver Surfer are pretty much the definitive versions of those characters, in my book. I just can't get into his current work for whatever reason, though.

[TheCorpulent1]

I like his Thor work, but I think he's totally wrong for Spider-Girl. The book is supposed to capitalize on the fact that it feels like you're reading old-school Spider-Man stories when you read it, but that doesn't mean it has to literally look like it was drawn in the '70s or '80s. A more modern artist would do wonders for it, I think.

[JackRembrandt]

Who would you suggest?

And I think I'm confusing Ron Lim for Ron Frenz. :confused:

[TheCorpulent1]

I think so, too. Ron Lim definitely has the definitive Thanos, as far as I'm concerned. His Surfer's up there, too. Frenz is most famous for his old-school Thor art:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/thecorpulent1/Thor/thor412p16.jpg

As for Spider-Girl, I haven't thought that far into it. I guess someone with a cartoony style but not overbearingly so. Casey Jones did a great job on the issue he penciled, with Sean McKeever writing. Rob Haynes (http://www.lockblok.com/) would be cool, too. Maybe Karl Kerschl.

[JackRembrandt]

Yep, that's what I did. Ron Lim is the dude who's work I used to really enjoy as a kid. Frenz did some great Thor work, I'm remembering correctly now.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yes, he did. Always had a tendency to draw Mjolnir a bit small for my tastes, though.

[JackRembrandt]

I can see that, especially in the actuall hammer part. Not so much the handle. And Rob Haynes is ****ing brilliant. I love his stuff. So's Karl Kerschl, although if he's doing ongoing work, he's convinced me that there's no one better suited right now to be drawing the Flash then he is. Those few pages that he did a few months ago were fantastic. Casey Jones has done some great work in the past (I mostly remember his Quicksilver run), but I haven't seen his more recent work.

[TheCorpulent1]

I really wish I knew what Rob Haynes is doing right now. The only major comic I remember seeing his art on was a Daredevil mini-series a few years back. I didn't even read the series, but I've been captivated by his art ever since. Few artists have such a command over dynamic lines.

Totally agree about Kerschl on the Flash. He'd be an improvement by leaps and bounds to Freddie Williams III. He's drawing a Teen Titans Year One mini-series soon, though, so I can at least enjoy his art there.

I think I saw Jones' work on something relatively recent, but I can't recall what it was now. Possibly Birds of Prey or Blue Beetle.

[JackRembrandt]

Oh God, do I hate FWIII's art. My dream team on Flash would be Waid and Kerschl. It's so tangible, too. Make it happen DC.

I remember that Daredevil mini; Daredevil: Ninja. That, along with an issue of the main DD series, are the only two places I've seen his art. I loved every panel, though.

[TheCorpulent1]

Waid's not staying on the Flash for much longer, I don't think. But his co-writer, John Rogers, is the regular writer on Blue Beetle, and that book is excellent. I wouldn't mind if he took over full-time on Flash after Waid left, preferably with Kerschl at his side.

Although I mostly agree with you on Williams' art, I found myself really liking his portrayal of Iris in last week's issue. She looked almost too adorable. His Jai's not as good and his Wally downright sucks, but Iris looked great.

[JackRembrandt]

Be that as it may, one good depiction is not enough to win me over, unfortunately.

[LouFerignoDemon]

I wonder if Peter could and/or would eventually grow into a Cap-like figure of integrity and leadership if Marvel ever let him grow up.


They kind of are pointing more at Hawkeye for that now. I don't think Pete would want the mantle of Captain America, given that he probably would have self doubts.

[Steve Rogers]

They kind of are pointing more at Hawkeye for that now. I don't think Pete would want the mantle of Captain America, given that he probably would have self doubts.Really? I know Clint is cocky, but I would have assumed that he would not consider himself worthy of donning the winged cowel. What book is this in?

[LouFerignoDemon]

It's most hinted at in New Avengers, where his inner self is basically Captain America.

But they've always kind of had him as this sort of guy who can be selfless, moral, lead teams, be looked up to, inspiring, that sort of junk Captain America is known for.

[Steve Rogers]

It's most hinted at in New Avengers, where his inner self is basically Captain America.

But they've always kind of had him as this sort of guy who can be selfless, moral, lead teams, be looked up to, inspiring, that sort of junk Captain America is known for.
Damn. I got a stack of New Avengers I still need to read.

Yeah I agree, Hawkeye has the chops to pull off Cap, but I always got the impression that, like Wolverine, he always thought he wasn't good enough.

[LouFerignoDemon]

He doesn't actually think himself good enough, but he doesn't self doubt he could be that voice and icon. That humble attitude would be a big part of being Cap. Even Cap didn't really think he was always good enough to be Cap.

[Steve Rogers]

Good point.

[JackRembrandt]

Clint would make for the better Cap, compared to Bucky, as far as I'm concerned. Bucky is just filled with too much self loathing, that it could actually be a weakness if someone were to exploit it in battle.

[PaulGilbert]

Would be interesting to see him in the role for a while before Steve comes back.

[TheCorpulent1]

Clint did consider himself unworthy to be Captain America back in Fallen Son. Everyone whom fans have named to replace Cap consider themselves unworthy to be Captain America, in fact. I'm still pretty sure Bucky's gonna swallow his pride and take up the mantle, though, if only to prevent some other a**hole from doing it in his stead.

[LouFerignoDemon]

Cap was more all about control, where Bucky seems to be more all about violence and revenge or whatever it is this week.

[Steve Rogers]

I think having Bucky as Cap would create a lot of great drama and tension because he is so wrong for it. It might generate some really good story arcs.

[JackRembrandt]

I see both Clint and Bucky as viewing themselves not being worthy enough. The difference is that Bucky literally hates himself. Clint just feel inadequate. Both could probably rise to the challange, but I think Clint would do it better.

[LouFerignoDemon]

I actually get the feeling BuckCap would be a lot like FrankCap.

[Steve Rogers]

Exactly.

[TheCorpulent1]

Cap was more all about control, where Bucky seems to be more all about violence and revenge or whatever it is this week.
Personally, sure. But professionally? When he's out there on the job, fighting terrorists? He's all about control in the field, even if he's a bit reckless in the planning stage. I think that'd be interesting to see: a Cap who's as effective as Steve, but a bit more brutal and a lot more personally uncouth. He puts in his time as Cap and goes home to get wasted on whiskey 'til 3 in the morning, then he's back in perfect form the next day. That would be an interesting new dimension to Captain America the symbol.

[JackRembrandt]

I actually get the feeling BuckCap would be a lot like FrankCap.

I doubt it. Bucky was ready to kill Frank for parading around in a Cap-inspired suit. I doubt he'd put on the uniform just to have the same mentality.

[Steve Rogers]

Yeah, but Bucky's real messed up right now. He's not the old Bucky anymore.

[JackRembrandt]

He wasn't the old Bucky when he confronted Frank either.

[Steve Rogers]

He wasn't the old Bucky when he confronted Frank either.I was actually replying to Corp's post, but came in between us. I should have quoted it.

But still, I know he wasn't the old Bucky when he confronted Frank, and while he won't be like a Punisher Cap, he won't be like classic Cap either. At least not a first. It might end up being a kind of therapy for him in the long run though. Who knows?

[TheCorpulent1]

If nothing else, the very fact that he's wearing the Captain America uniform will force him to straighten up. As Jack pointed out, he was ready to kill Frank for bringing his sociopathic methods to Captain America's name. No way he'd just turn around and bring his own dirty, black ops methods to the Cap name. He'd change his whole style around and strive to be as much like Steve as he's capable of being, and he'd probably come out closer to the old Bucky in the end as a result.

But like I said, once the uniform comes off and he's just James Barnes again, I see him being as reckless and impetuous and out-of-control as he is now, at least at first.

[Steve Rogers]

If nothing else, the very fact that he's wearing the Captain America uniform will force him to straighten up. As Jack pointed out, he was ready to kill Frank for bringing his sociopathic methods to Captain America's name. No way he'd just turn around and bring his own dirty, black ops methods to the Cap name. He'd change his whole style around and strive to be as much like Steve as he's capable of being, and he'd probably come out closer to the old Bucky in the end as a result.

But like I said, once the uniform comes off and he's just James Barnes again, I see him being as reckless and impetuous and out-of-control as he is now, at least at first.I agree with you partly. I agree that he would change his style while filling Cap's red boots. Like I said, it might be like a kind of therapy.

But I don't see him changing back once the uniform comes off. Now, that would be a good story arc. The redemption of Bucky.

[JackRembrandt]

Those kinds of stories usually end with the character's death. :(

[Steve Rogers]

Those kinds of stories usually end with the character's death. :(I'd like to see it end with the re-teaming of Steve and a modern, yet, classic Bucky.

[LouFerignoDemon]

I doubt it. Bucky was ready to kill Frank for parading around in a Cap-inspired suit. I doubt he'd put on the uniform just to have the same mentality.


I meant the killer mentality.

[JackRembrandt]

I'd like to see it end with the re-teaming of Steve and a modern, yet, classic Bucky.

Ending with Bucky's death. :(

[Steve Rogers]

Ending with Bucky's death. :(Wouldn't surprise me. Cap's been solo for so long now, that readers might want him to stay that way.

[JackRembrandt]

Cap really hasn't been solo at all. Sharon Carter has been his de facto partner for the past few years.

[Steve Rogers]

Cap really hasn't been solo at all. Sharon Carter has been his de facto partner for the past few years.I meant without Bucky. Besides, he doesn't have the sexual tension with Bucky.:woot:

[LouFerignoDemon]

None that YOU have picked up.

[TheCorpulent1]

Cap's always had loads of partners. Sharon Carter, Rick Jones, the Falcon, Jack Monroe--all of them have partnered up with Cap a lot. The concept of Cap having a partner is nothing new, and Sharon, Rick, and the Falcon, at least, have all survived the experience. I don't think it's too outlandish for Cap to ultimately come back and be teamed with a more morally righteous Bucky.

[LouFerignoDemon]

I don't see Bucky playing sidekick anymore.

It would probably be someone being introduced to the next phase of the Super Soldier program.

[TheCorpulent1]

He wouldn't be a sidekick, he'd be a partner, just like Sharon, the Falcon, et al. have been Cap's partners.

[shapeshifter]

Good God, it's like those stupid lets give Batman powers already idea. No, and no.
huh.
the planets must have lined up or something. I just agreed with what darth said.

[LouFerignoDemon]

He wouldn't be a sidekick, he'd be a partner, just like Sharon, the Falcon, et al. have been Cap's partners.


You think too logically. You KNOW Cap would try to guide him back on the right path, and thus, would be forced to treat him like a sidekick.

"Spankings!"

[KangConquers]

You think too logically. You KNOW Cap would try to guide him back on the right path, and thus, would be forced to treat him like a sidekick.

"Spankings!"

You french, all you think about is sex.:o

Though I have to agree...Bucky's a big boy now...hell...according to Bru's run he was a big boy since he "died" (only 4 years younger than Steve.)

Bucky's 81-86, depending on what birth year you want to take as canon; it's time for him to grow up.

[Steve Rogers]

You french, all you think about is sex.:o

Though I have to agree...Bucky's a big boy now...hell...according to Bru's run he was a big boy since he "died" (only 4 years younger than Steve.)

Bucky's 81-86, depending on what birth year you want to take as canon; it's time for him to grow up.I think he is currently growing up now. I just hope they don't kill him off or portray him as the old "kid" Bucky. I'll be happy if they stay on the present course.

[Shockdingo]

They better not kill him off.... ever. I was so against him coming back, but once I saw the excellent way he's been written I've grown to like him a lot. I would really like to see him and Steve interact more when he comes back.

[TheCorpulent1]

How is Bucky not grown up? He's an adult, he's just a really angry and sometimes reckless adult. Are Wolverine or the Punisher childish, too? :confused:

As for Cap treating him like a sidekick: since it'll take place after Bucky takes over as Cap for a while if it happens at all, Steve wouldn't need to guide him anywhere. Being Cap would've already gotten him back to a mroe noble and even-handed approach to things in order to honor Steve's legacy by not being his usual psycho self.

[not_a_victim]

I have read the crazy idea that the new Cap is Bullseye. It makes sense from the perspective that he could throw the shield with accuracy. Does he still have the implanted spine after DD dropped him?
His new costume is supposed to hint at who he is, and he wore black, had the circle on his head where teh "A" is, and at one point, carried a gun, and knives...
Feel free to destroy me at this point.

Edit:
With what happened to him at the end of Civil War, he could be brainwashed/reporgrammed to think he is Cap.Just bouncing ideas around, not campaigning here.