The Obama Thread (Merged x6)

[ShadowBoxing]

The bottom line is the country is a better, safer place without recreational drug use. If you think that is ignorant, so be it.In the 1920s it wasn't very safe.

[Scar Predator]

Yet we seem to feel painkillers and alike are useful in medical procedings...and yes they can have bad after effects there too.



I'm not talking about people trying to deal with illness or pain. In those cases, the side effects and benefits should be weighed by a doctor for safety. I'm refering to recreational use.

[Wilhelm-Scream]

The bottom line is the country is a better, safer place without recreational drug use. If you think that is ignorant, so be it.Including the recreational use of alcohol?

If you agree that possession with intent to sell beer should be punishable with fines and years in prison with murderers and rapists, then my respect for you will rise.

If not, you're an i.....no,....must remember C.Lee's words....."Be CIVIL!!!!Be CIVIL!!!!"

[Outsiderzedge]

This thread is why democracy fails.

[Scar Predator]

Including the recreational use of alcohol?

If you agree that possession with intent to sell beer should be punishable with fines and years in prison with murderers and rapists, then my respect for you will rise.

If not, you're an i.....no,....must remember C.Lee's words....."Be CIVIL!!!!Be CIVIL!!!!"

I wish alcohol was only legal as a blood thinner for heart patients via prescription. It's not going to happen but we don't have to compound the problems we have by letting the drug culture gain more ground via legalized drugs.

[Wilhelm-Scream]

The war on drugs only hurts people who are self centered enough to alter their consciousness.WHOAH, I missed this nugget of wisdom!:eek:

Congrats, literally the most terrifyingly retarded statement I've seen on the Hype all week.

I....want to give you a chance to edit that, or...explain it in a different way, before you become forever branded a simpleton. :csad:

I'm begging you.....for you own sake....you, didn't really mean that....right?!?:):up:

[blind_fury]

I'm not talking about people trying to deal with illness or pain. In those cases, the side effects and benefits should be weighed by a doctor for safety. I'm refering to recreational use.
So drugs are ok just as long as you don't enjoy them. :whatever:

Are you against recreational sex too? Side effects include unwanted pregnancies and stds.

[Man-Thing]

I suppose your profs told you that Farrakhan and Jesse Jackson's anti-Jew attitudes were "cooked up by the media" as well.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/Wilhelm-Scream/HYPE/rolleyesx100.jpg

:rolleyes:
Everyone knows that when Farrakhan said "Judism is a gutter religion" and when Jackson said "NY is hymie town" that those are supposed to be terms of endearment.

[Wilhelm-Scream]

This thread is why democracy fails.Yes, because the "majority" of humans are f***ing evil, stupid, self-righteous, short-sighted, xenophobic morons who lack empathy, imagination and the innate sense of logic required to wrap their creaky brains around the concept of "CO-EXISTENCE".

It's......whew.....:(X100
whatever

[Scar Predator]

WHOAH, I missed this nugget of wisdom!:eek:

Congrats, literally the most terrifyingly retarded statement I've seen on the Hype all week.

I....want to give you a chance to edit that, or...explain it in a different way, before you become forever branded a simpleton. :csad:

I'm begging you.....for you own sake....you, didn't really mean that....right?!?:):up:

I stand by my statement. Abstain from recreational substance use and you will have nothing to fear from anti-drug laws.

[ShadowBoxing]

You'd learn more watching actual footage of historical figures on PBS spewing angry Black-Hate than you learn in your sancrosanct academic bubble.

I said Malcolm was (at one time) "more full of hate than the other listees" because of, uh,....actual interviews, where, he was getting violent and talking just as irrationally as any revered poster on stormfront.com.

I suppose your profs told you that Farrakhan and Jesse Jackson's anti-Jew attitudes were "cooked up by the media" as well.

FOR THE LAST TIME, my professors don't tell me these things (and I have read all of Malcom's speeches thank you) you get books filled with numbers and data in political science and you predict voter patterns, that's about it. If you learn history, your Professor pretty much hands you a series of books with facts and dates in them. Lecture pretty much tell us what's on the exam. I don't think I've ever had my Professor make an assertion or give an assertion about Malcom X.

Farrakhan is fairly racism, however Malcom broke from NOI, Farrakhan did not. Because Malcom dissagreed with them. He did not preach hate speech. Nor did anything he said lead to his assassination, NOI sanctioned him because he knew too much about some sh** going on within the organization. And he was an uplifting speaker.

I love how you spew the most cynical bullcrap every post you make, then when someone tells you, ummm...Wilhelm that's not true, you go nu-uh I don't have to research it because "1 million rolleyes". I'm a Concierge, nah nah nah.

Dude your exactly who Colbert makes fun of. "I don't read books, I shoot from the gut...I look it up in my gut". Try reading the man's biography, or better yet get off the internet and type his name into a web search.

Of course the media tried to rile him up every chance they got. They were convinced he was a hate speaker. His speeches were about black nationalism, and giving blacks pride in themselves, that's not hate speech. It's not MLK, but it's not hate speech.




"I don't believe in fighting today in any one front, but on all fronts. In fact I'm a Black Nationalist Freedom Fighter. Islam is my religion, but I believe my religion is my personal business.... The economic philosophy of Black Nationalism only means that we should own and operate and control the economy of our community."

"This government has failed us, the government itself has failed us. The white liberals, who have been posing as our friends, have failed us. Once we see that all these other sources to which we've turned have failed, we stop turning to them and turn to ourselves. We need a self-help program, a do it yourself philosophy, a do it right now philosophy, an it's already too late philosophy. This is what you and I need to get with... Black Nationalism is a self-help philosophy... this is a philosophy that eliminates the necessity for division and argument."

He's talking about economics, not kill Whitey.

Look at the American Revolution, in 1776. That revolution was for what? For land. Why did they want land? Independence. How was it carried out? Bloodshed. Number one, it was based on land, the basis of independence, and the only way they could get it, was bloodshed. The French Revolution, what was it based on — the landless against the landlord. What was it for? Land! How did they get it? Bloodshed! There was no love lost, was no compromise, was no negotiation. I'm telling you you don't know what a revolution is, because when you find out you'll get back in the alley, you'll get out of the way. The Russian Revolution. What was it based on? Land — the landless against the landlord. How did they bring it about? Bloodshed. You haven't got a revolution that doesn't involve bloodshed, and you're afraid to bleed. [Commotion] I said you are afraid to bleed. As long as the white man sent you to Korea, you bled. He sent you to Germany, you bled. He sent you to the South Pacific to fight the Japanese, you bled. You bleed for white people, but when it comes time to seeing your own churches being bombed, and little black girls [Speak on!] murdered, you haven't got no blood.

He is saying Black people are afraid to lay themselves on the line for their freedom.


He wanted blacks not to be dependent on the white system. That was scary for whites, so they painted him as a hate speaker. So I am afraid you don't know much about it.
http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/malcolm-x/index.htm

Familiarize yourself with him.

[Wilhelm-Scream]

:rolleyes:
Everyone knows that when Farrakhan said "Judism is a gutter religion" and when Jackson said "NY is hymie town" that those are supposed to be terms of endearment.Hymie does sound kinda cute. :)

WHO's my favorite most beautiful little bunchkin?
Who's my favorite most beautiful little bunchkin?!?!?

YES!
YES!
That's RiGhT!
It's YOU!
Oh that's rIGHT my little Hymie!

THAT'S right!:mad:
ThuAT'S right!:mad:

Yuh-ESSSSSss...YOU little Hymie!

MMMmmmmmm, c'mere little snuggle-Jew.....yuh-ESSSss......mmmm

[blind_fury]

WHOAH, I missed this nugget of wisdom!:eek:

Congrats, literally the most terrifyingly retarded statement I've seen on the Hype all week.

I....want to give you a chance to edit that, or...explain it in a different way, before you become forever branded a simpleton. :csad:

I'm begging you.....for you own sake....you, didn't really mean that....right?!?:):up:
Give it up. That dude took the blue pill and washed it down with jonestown kool aid.

It's too late for him. :(

[Scar Predator]

So drugs are ok just as long as you don't enjoy them. :whatever:

Are you against recreational sex too? Side effects include unwanted pregnancies and stds.

If someone has a LEGITIMATE reason to use a substance, doing so under professional medical care is fine, of course. Taking something simply to get high is 100% wrong.

[ShadowBoxing]

:rolleyes:
Everyone knows that when Farrakhan said "Judism is a gutter religion" and when Jackson said "NY is hymie town" that those are supposed to be terms of endearment.Ummm, I forget which one is Malcom X. Oh that's right neither.

[Scar Predator]

Give it up. That dude took the blue pill and washed it down with jonestown kool aid.

It's too late for him. :(

SXE 4 EVA.

[blind_fury]

:rolleyes:
Everyone knows that when Farrakhan said "Judism is a gutter religion" and when Jackson said "NY is hymie town" that those are supposed to be terms of endearment.
admit it. even if those leaders never said anything bad about Jews you would still find a reason to attack them.

[Man-Thing]

Ummm, I forget which one is Malcom X. Oh that's right neither.

I wasn't quoting you...
:)

[Man-Thing]

admit it. even if those leaders never said anything bad about Jews you would still find a reason to attack them.
So???

[ShadowBoxing]

admit it. even if those leaders never said anything bad about Jews you would still find a reason to attack them.I'm not defending Farrakhan though, that's the funny part. I was defending Malcom. He didn't say those things, but because he is black, and a leader...and not cuddly like we are told MLK is...he is racist:cmad: and should be called a hate speaker:cmad: and should be not in a list of pivotal assassinated leaders...he had it coming he preached hate:cmad: .

[blind_fury]

If someone has a LEGITIMATE reason to use a substance, doing so under professional medical care is fine, of course. Taking something simply to get high is 100% wrong.
what about recreational sex? When you have sex, dopamine and serotonin flood your brain as if you just took ecstacy or cocaine.

[Scar Predator]

Sorry MODS, this thread has gotten off track. No more posts for me in this thread.

Back to the topic of Obama and how this admission will/won't affect his impending candidacy.

As you were.

[ShadowBoxing]

I wasn't quoting you...
:)Fair enough.

[ShadowBoxing]

No more posts about black nationalism please...stop this...if you want to talk about drugs fine. But quit bringing up Malcom X or anyone like that. And don't call them hateful people either, just sickens me.

[blind_fury]

Malcom X's father was killed by a white supremacist group and he experienced the indignities of racism his entire life. I wonder why he rejected the turn the other cheek philosophy of MLK? :whatever:

[blind_fury]

^^^ok, last post about black nationalism.

[Wilhelm-Scream]

FOR THE LAST TIME, my professors don't tell me these things (and I have read all of Malcom's speeches thank you) you get books filled with numbers and data in political science and you predict voter patterns, that's about it. If you learn history, your Professor pretty much hands you a series of books with facts and dates in them. Lecture pretty much tell us what's on the exam. I don't think I've ever had my Professor make an assertion or give an assertion about Malcom X.

Farrakhan is fairly racism, however Malcom broke from NOI, Farrakhan did not. Because Malcom dissagreed with them. He did not preach hate speech. Nor did anything he said lead to his assassination. And he was an uplifting speaker.

I love how you spew the most cynical bullcrap every post you make, then when someone tells you, ummm...Wilhelm that's not true, you go nu-uh I don't have to research it because "1 million rolleyes". I'm a Conceigre, nah nah nah.

Dude your exactly who Colbert makes fun of. "I don't read books, I shoot from the gut...I look it up in my gut". Try reading the man's biography, or better yet get off the internet and type his name into a web search.

Of course the media tried to rile him up every chance they got. They were convinced he was a hate speaker. His speeches were about black nationalism, and giving blacks pride in themselves, that's not hate speech. It's not MLK, but it's not hate speech.



[/color]
He wanted blacks not to be dependent on the white system. That was scary for whites, so they painted him as a hate speaker. So I am afraid you don't know much about it.
http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/malcolm-x/index.htm

Familiarize yourself with him.I'll give you the B.O.T.D. and assume you're drunk again, 'cause this post was, lol....."out there".

I've....mmmhow can I put this in a way that you'll FINALLY READ?

SEEN.....footage....of Malcolm....Black+White footage (how fitting :o), spewing hatred, directed against, not "whites in power", but against, "White People".....

...IN....*gasp*....his URLY DAZE.....

That's why I said he, was more hateful....in his youth.....but, didn't dismiss him as a hate-monger....'cause I'm taking his influence as an historical "whole", especially since he had an historical begining and end (as far as self-generated statements go).
He matured into a great leader....once he MELLOwed (something you should look into :o)

I don't "shoot from the gut". I shoot from "facts" + AFTER that...."opinions".

And if you think for 2 seconds that I think being a *ahem* "Conceigre" ( :huh: ) has anything to do with my superior knowledge regarding history, science, economics, art and love......buh-OY are you far off.

That's the way I've chosen to pay bills and buy food and take girls out to the movies.


Please, sober up, get sane, and then we can talk again.....just....breath.:up:

[Man-Thing]

ahem...

I said "so" as a response to blind fury's claim that I would still "attack" Jesse Jackson and Louis Farrakhan, I'm waiting to be told why I shouldn't be that way according to blind fury.

[Wilhelm-Scream]

ahem...

I said "so" as a response to blind fury's claim that I would still "attack" Jesse Jackson and Louis Farrakhan, I'm waiting to be told why I shouldn't be that way according to blind fury.
yeah, message boards are a b****.


(btw, I think it's weird that public, network television can say use "gay" as a word to express derision, can say "cock", "dick", "b****", and even "P****y"....((and of course "butt secks" is cool")), but the Hype won't allow "B****". :huh:

Like, I swear there's never been a poster who didn't:
1) USE it (with asterisks)
or 2) WANT to use it....

It's weirdo.)

[Man-Thing]

yeah, message boards are b****.
Your only saying that because you know message boards can't defend themselves. SAY IT TO A MESSAGE BOARDS FACE!!!:cmad: :cmad: :cmad:

[Wilhelm-Scream]

message boards?....you a b****.

Happy?

[blind_fury]

ahem...

I said "so" as a response to blind fury's claim that I would still "attack" Jesse Jackson and Louis Farrakhan, I'm waiting to be told why I shouldn't be that way according to blind fury.
My point was that you would always look for reasons to attack them simply because they have been targeted by the right. Your knee-jerk response to shows a lack of any critical thought.

Happy now? :yay:

[Man-Thing]

My point was that you would always look for reasons to attack them simply because they have been targeted by the right. Your knee-jerk response to shows a lack of any critical thought.

Happy now? :yay:
Oh and your such an independant thinker....-------->:D followed by-------->:rolleyes:

Anyway, I don't base anything I believe on what the "right" tells me. I base my beliefs on the standards of what should be right and wrong according to my conscience.

Jackson and Farrakhan are both leeches who use the plight of their own race for political gain. They do nothing but keep them in the ditch.:up: I'm sorry if these words are too blunt for your liberal heros (who happen to be racist), but it's reality.

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Happy now?

Please don't bite my styles.

[blind_fury]

Oh and your such an independant thinker....-------->:D followed by-------->:rolleyes:

Anyway, I don't base anything I believe on what the "right" tells me. I base my beliefs on the standards of what should be right and wrong according to my conscience.
LOL! Nothing you say about those two sounds original. It sounds like the same right-wing radio drivel. Stop echoing Sean Hannity and think for yourself. :whatever:

Jackson and Farrakhan are both leeches who use the plight of their own race for political gain. They do nothing but keep them in the ditch.:up: I'm sorry if these words are too blunt for your liberal heros (who happen to be racist), but it's reality.
Yeah, because they're supported finacially by like minded people their leeches but when Sean Hannity gets paid 20,000 to do a speech at some college or for bashing liberals infront of like minded republicans he's not a leech. He's just doing his duty as a proud conservative. If your going to bash someone for being a leech, blast the right-wing cheerleaders and cronies too.

[blind_fury]

Please don't bite my styles.
You paranoid psycho.

[Man-Thing]

LOL! Nothing you say about those two sounds original. It sounds like the same right-wing radio drivel. Stop echoing Sean Hannity and think for yourself. :whatever:


Yeah, because they're supported finacially by like minded people their leeches but when Sean Hannity gets paid 20,000 to do a speech at some college or for bashing liberals infront of like minded republicans he's not a leech. He's just doing his duty as a proud conservative. If your going to bash someone for being a leech, blast the right-wing cheerleaders and cronies too.

Ughh... I don't think Hanity is in the business of advancing any particular race in the form of "charitalbe causes", so any profit he makes to me, is just that. He doesn't do so under the guise of "if you give to me, it will help such and such race". BIG DIFFERENCE.:up:

[Wilhelm-Scream]

You paranoid psycho.
you racist thief.

[blind_fury]

Ughh... I don't think Hanity is in the business of advancing any particular race in the form of "charitalbe causes", so any profit he makes to me, is just that. He doesn't do so under the guise of "if you give to me, it will help such and such race". BIG DIFFERENCE.:up:
You act like these black leaders are Ken Lay stealing the retirement from unsuspecting investors. Black people who support thse leaders do so knowing that when the s**t hits the fan and the black community has a serious problem these black leaders will rally, boycott, protest and do whatever it takes to help. That's why the black community truust and supports them more than they would Clarance Thomas or some other clueless idiot.

And unlike whites minorities need leaders that look out for their special interest. Because they can and will be ignored or exploited by the majority if they're left defenseless.

And just because Rush Limbaugh doesn't say he is working in the best interest of rich white men doesn't mean that's not what he's thinking. He doesn't reach out to the black community does he? Talk to black colleges? Naw, he's content with a 99% white male audience. Him and his ilk are no better than Jesse Jackson organizing black marches for their cause.

[Wilhelm-Scream]

And unlike whites
Have you ever looked inside yourself and tried to come to terms with your racism toward "White People"?

Of course the term "Whites" is silly, I just told my roommate about this reparation talk and he pointed out that he's descended from Laplanders.
I come from Spaniards who screwed Irish women.....I know Nordic freaks, I've met French people, Danes, Germans.......and I suspect that you, in your racism, would call them all "Whites" and say that "WHITES" are responsible for any and everything bad that ever happened to a person of color........which destroys my mind, seeing as how I got beaten up in high school for being a "N*****-Lover".

Why do you resent "Whites" so much?..... when it wasn't the color of our skin that ever committed any atrocities against "BLACKS"?

:huh:

[blind_fury]

I didn't say anything bad about whites in my last post? :huh:

And calling me racist is a bit extreme. Do you call a woman sexist for simply pointing out misogyny?

I don't hate or dislike whites. I hate racism and that's what I attack.

[Man-Thing]

I don't hate or dislike whites. I hate racism and that's what I attack.

And yet, a few posts earlier you willfully overlooked both of these men's racist statements to Jews to attack what I said about their racist statements. Way to be consitant.:up:

[blind_fury]

casualties from black supremacy = 9 unlucky whites

casualties from white supremacy = 15.9 million and counting

perhaps that's why I treat one more seriously than the other.

[Man-Thing]

casualties from black supremacy = 9 unlucky whites

casualties from white supremacy = 15.9 million and counting

perhaps that's why I treat one more seriously than the other.

Or maybe you think that the causes of Jackson and Farrakhan benefit you more. That's fine and dandy if you want to be that type of person, just don't waving the flag of "hating racism", when infact you just hate black racism.:up:

nice figures BTW...:rolleyes:

[blind_fury]

I don't like black supremacy. I just understand historically it's been pretty harmless. To equate it with white supremacy is an injustice in itself.

[Wilhelm-Scream]

I didn't say anything bad about whites in my last post? :huh:

And calling me racist is a bit extreme. Do you call a woman sexist for simply pointing out misogyny?

I don't hate or dislike whites. I hate racism and that's what I attack.

No. You blame "Whites" for the poverty of "Blacks".
Whites who haven't "paid Blacks back" for the crimes of their ancient White ancestors are "unclassy" and are the reason that there are so many poverty-stricken Blacks in America.

You've said several times that it's.....not "George Bush's" fault,....or "Henry Kissinger's" fault.....but that instead it's "WHITES".


And to compare this thing to misogyny is silly.

Are you saying that modern-day MEN should send a specified percentage of their paychecks to descendants of women from 400 years ago that weren't allowed suffrage?

Preposterous!

So I should have to compensate, aGAIN...my boss, my Black/WOMAN boss.....?.....not only for crimes committed hundreds of years before I was even born (against Africans), but also for crimes committed decades/hundreds of years before I was born against WOMEN?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Why am I held responsible for the actions of people I've not only never met, but who also, in retrospect, disgust the f*** out of me?!?

'Cause I'm "White"

Come ON! You're not that stupid!
Surely you can see racism for what it is......I hope. :huh:

[blind_fury]

No. You blame "Whites" for the poverty of "Blacks".
Whites who haven't "paid Blacks back" for the crimes of their ancient White ancestors are "unclassy" and are the reason that there are so many poverty-stricken Blacks in America.
I have repeatedly said the US government owes the descendents of slaves because slaves never got a chance to pass down an inheritance and ALL Americans are indebt to slaves because without them America would not have become so prosperous.

You've said several times that it's.....not "George Bush's" fault,....or "Henry Kissinger's" fault.....but that instead it's "WHITES".
I can't identify every white, mustache-twirling villian who perpetuated slavery but it's pretty much a fact that those responsible for sanctioned slavery were white. That's why I use the term "whites". Because I can't identify them individually in a timely manner.


And to compare this thing to misogyny is silly.

Are you saying that modern-day MEN should send a specified percentage of their paychecks to descendants of women from 400 years ago that weren't allowed suffrage?

Preposterous!

So I should have to compensate, aGAIN...my boss, my Black/WOMAN boss.....?.....not only for crimes committed hundreds of years before I was even born (against Africans), but also for crimes committed decades/hundreds of years before I was born against WOMEN?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
I used misogyny as an example because you called me racist for pointing out racism. Not because women can be grouped the same way blacks can.

Why am I held responsible for the actions of people I've not only never met, but who also, in retrospect, disgust the f*** out of me?!?

'Cause I'm "White"

Come ON! You're not that stupid!
Surely you can see racism for what it is......I hope. :huh:
You're not being held responsible. Reparations would be paid from the government and that money would come from taxpayers who are composed all Americans. Why "ALL" Americans? Because all Americans benefited from slavery but blacks are still missing our inheritance because the US government forbid our forfathers from earning money or buying property causing the descendents of slaves to be disproportionately poor. All the government has to do is give ambitious students school vouchers. This could significantly increase the net value of blacks. Why is this idea being challenged?

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Why "ALL" Americans? Because all Americans benefited from slavery but blacks are still missing our inheritance because the US government forbid our forfathers from earning money or buying property causing the descendents of slaves to be disproportionately poor.


UM,....KNOCK-KNOCK

Anybody HOME?!?!?

How did the old, white-haired doctor from Honduras, who applied and legally became an "American Citizen", BENEFIT from slavery?

How did the twice removed cousin of an Irish (yeah you Honkey-Hater....they're "White" too :o) immigrant benefit from slavery?!?!?!?!?


Please you insufferable, illogical racist,...tell me,....exactly how is it that "ALL AMERICANS BENEFITTED FROM SLAVERY"

Use.Your.Freaking.Brain!

You hate White people...with exactly the same fervor that members of the KKK hate BLACK people,.....'cause there's a perceived "wound"......but stop,.....and open your eyes.....

I never had anything to DO with that wound.
Don't blame my White ass just 'cause it's paler than yours. :down

[blind_fury]

I hardly hate white people. I would gladly sacrifice my life to save an innocent white child if the time came. I highly doubt a klan member would do the same for a black child.

All Americans owe slaves because America would not be nearly as prosperous without the free labor millions of slaves provided for centuries.

Now apologize for calling me an "insufferable, illogical racist".

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Now apologize for calling me an "insufferable, illogical racist".

I don't apologize for truth, I just speak it. *shrug*


p.s. Did you care to tell me how all Americans owe Oprah Winfrey for their prosperity?

[blind_fury]

Well it's simple. Abraham Lincoln wisely promised ex-slaves 40 acres and a mule to attempt to compensate blacks for their contributions. Today's blacks are disproportionately poor so the deserve their inheritance.

Oprah Winfrey wouldn't get a dime under my plan. Poor school children who study hard would be given school vouchers so they will have access to a better education. This will help everyone in the long run. So ambitious black kids would recieve their 40 acres and a mule/inheritance in the form of a quality education. Why on God's green Earth would any reasonable person be opposed to that?

[blind_fury]

I don't apologize for truth, I just speak it. *shrug*

Tourette's syndrome! They have medication you can take for that. :up:

[Man-Thing]

I think affirmative action has been enough.

[blind_fury]

of course you do. you don't realize how much "inheritance" today's blacks were cheated so a handful of blacks getting an empty seat here and there is plenty.

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Oprah Winfrey wouldn't get a dime under my plan. Poor school children who study hard would be given school vouchers so they will have access to a better education. This will help everyone in the long run. So ambitious black kids would recieve their 40 acres and a mule/inheritance in the form of a quality education. Why on God's green Earth would any reasonable person be opposed to that?

Now you're being disingenuous and back-pedaling.

Oprah is the proven descendant of slaves. You can watch her cry as the researchers tell her about her family members...from hundreds of years ago.

Why do you want to help poor Black kids to get an education, but not poor Albanians, Viet Namese, and "WHITE" kids (which could be poor Russians, Irish, Scottish, Australians, Spaniards, etc.)?

Answer: You are making "Whites" the scapegoat. You are saying that there are more poor Black people than White people beCAUSE....of "White People".


Please, you sound like an okay guy. Try,....try to let loose of this irrational antagonism towards whites. :csad::(

[blind_fury]

Now you're being disingenuous and back-pedaling.

Oprah is the proven descendant of slaves. You can watch her cry as the researchers tell her about her family members...from hundreds of years ago.

Why do you want to help poor Black kids to get an education, but not poor Albanians, Viet Namese, and "WHITE" kids (which could be poor Russians, Irish, Scottish, Australians, Spaniards, etc.)?
For the one hundreth time blacks are the one's who are DISPROPORTIONATELY poor. Meaning because their forefathers were forbidden from earning a days work or buying property their descendents missed out on billions. All thanks to the American governement who was only too happy to reap what slaves sowed. Russians or Vietnamese people didn't work from childhood till death non-stop for 400 years so the government doesn't owe them. It owes the descendents of slaves.

Answer: You are making "Whites" the scapegoat. You are saying that there are more poor Black people than White people beCAUSE....of "White People".


Please, you sound like an okay guy. Try,....try to let loose of this irrational antagonism towards whites. :csad::(
WRONG! I'm saying blacks were cheated by the richest government in the world. I don't care if a Mexican co-signed that horrible injustice. It doesn't change the fact that blacks were cheated by the American government and still haven't been compensated. I don't care if the slave owners were purple just give these black children what their forefathers were never given. Payment for services rendered.

[lazur]

I think we are talking about two different things.

When it was posted on the hype about GWB 'possibly' using coke he was immediately guilty in most of the hypes eyes. (I'm not saying that I think he didn't do it because you are correct he was extremely dodgy about the question and could have just said 'NO'...but didn't.)

Anyway when that came out MANY on here were saying that they didn't want a coke head for president even though if he did use it in his youth he doesn't now (I'm pretty sure about that anyway).

But now that a very prominent Democrat has openly admitted to using it do they still want 'a coke head' as president. I'm just a sure that Obama doesn't use it now as I am about GWB.

So if GWB tried it when he was in his youth = No coke head for president
does Obama tried it when he was in his youth = No coke head for president?

There is ALWAYS a double standard. But not just on the part of liberals. On the part of conservatives, too.

Why is it that politics can generate so much hyprocrisy from otherwise decent people?

[blind_fury]

And no one ever EARNS an inheritance they just get it one day. What's wrong with that happening for the descendents of slaves???

[lazur]

And no one ever EARNS an inheritance they just get it one day. What's wrong with that happening for the descendents of slaves???

It's never gonna happen. But good luck with it anyway. Maybe you should start writing your politicians, it'd probably get you further than the incessant whining on this message board.

[blind_fury]

Actually I'm refining my argument for just that occassion.

Thanks for helping black children get reparations!








sucka! :ninja:

[Jerry]

Back to the topic. As far as there being a black president, I don't really care, but if I were that guy I would be sure to have extra protection. Because that **** would be way too hot, as Dave Chappelle said.

But as far as Obama being considered, I would rethink that. The guy is a senator from the Illinois, home of the Windy City. A lot of people think they call it the windy city just because of the wind. Which is half true. The other, more important part of it, is the politics. Its one of the most corrupt places in the country as far as in politics and city officials are concerned. If there ever was a corruption on the level like there is ,say, in Gotham City, Chicago would be its real life couterpart. Lets rethink the whole campaign rally for Obama for a minute here. I'm not saying the guy is involved in anything, but ****, thats a huge risk to take to elect a guy representing a state with some of the most corrupt city leaders in the country.

[Quietstorm]

of course you do. you don't realize how much "inheritance" today's blacks were cheated so a handful of blacks getting an empty seat here and there is plenty.

Internal colonialism, I believe that's the term :oldrazz:

[ShadowBoxing]

Internal colonialism, I believe that's the term :oldrazz:Actually a lot have discarded that theory for the Alternate Formulation, which is pretty much colonialism with more explanation attached.

[jaguarr]

blind_fury doesn't care about white people. :down

jag

[Quietstorm]

Actually a lot have discarded that theory for the Alternate Formulation, which is pretty much colonialism with more explanation attached.

Oh really, so it's pretty much IC version 2.0?

So where can I find some information on Alternate Formulation?

[bulok]

Actually I'm refining my argument for just that occassion.

Thanks for helping black children get reparations!








sucka! :ninja:


**** reparations, i'm first generation FOB immigrant here in the US. I don't want my tax dollars paying for some redneck's a$$holery from a few hundred years ago. bad enough it's going to illegals.

Like I said I am a 1st gen immigrant and I am hardly poor. Came here with nothing but my education, $700 and a suitcase of clothes,, now I have 2 cars (paid for) and a comfortable income.

Don't give me this baloney that blacks are disproportionately poor because of what happened to their ancestors. I call bull****!

[terry78]

**** reparations, i'm first generation FOB immigrant here in the US. I don't want my tax dollars paying for some redneck's a$$holery from a few hundred years ago. bad enough it's going to illegals.

Like I said I am a 1st gen immigrant and I am hardly poor. Came here with nothing but my education, $700 and a suitcase of clothes,, now I have 2 cars (paid for) and a comfortable income.

Don't give me this baloney that blacks are disproportionately poor because of what happened to their ancestors. I call bull****!
When you came here, how did you amass your fortune? Just out of curiosity.

[jaguarr]

When you came here, how did you amass your fortune? Just out of curiosity.

The white slavery trade is very lucrative.

jag

[bulok]

When you came here, how did you amass your fortune? Just out of curiosity.

It's not a fortune. I came here, I worked as an IT tech for $8 an hour (the company knew I needed a job to get my visa so they milked me ) worked 2 jobs, 7 days a week. Worked in Burger King on the weekend.

Got a better job and did alot of OT. It's just hard work. No secrets about it.

[Varient]

Barack Obama, asked about drug history, admits he inhaled
By Katharine Q. Seelye The New York Times

Published: October 24, 2006

PHOENIX, Arizona Senator Barack Obama, the Illinois Democrat who said Sunday that he was considering running for president in 2008, has created a little sunlight between himself and both Bill and Hillary Rodham Clinton.

For one thing, he said, "When I was a kid, I inhaled."

"That was the point," Obama told an audience of magazine editors.

The direct admission was in contrast to Bill Clinton's denial in his 1992 campaign for president that he had smoked marijuana.

"I didn't inhale," Clinton said, cementing the idea that he liked to have things both ways.

Obama had written in his first book, "Dreams From My Father" (1995), before entering politics, that he had used marijuana and cocaine ("maybe a little blow"). He said he had not tried heroin because he did not like the pusher who was trying to sell it to him.

In an interview here at a meeting of the American Society of Magazine Editors, Obama said he was not making light of the subject.

"It was reflective of the struggles and confusion of a teenage boy," he said. "Teenage boys are frequently confused."

The question of drug use has become a standard one for politicians, sometimes as a test of their ability to be straightforward. If the politician has used drugs, conventional wisdom says it is best to try to get the question out of the way early.

Read More (http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/10/24/news/dems.php)

I'd really like to read this book. I think I may stop by the library soon.
I can respect a person this honest.

Too bad I have NO FAITH in Government,... The fact that they Don't have a handle on him means he won't be President

tsk.

[LuiECuomo]

I'd really like an answer.

Is it because he's a young black man with a Muslim name? Or is it because he is a charismatic speaker who spoke at the Democratic National Convention?

Really, what has he done? I mean, he has a fairly clean political record. In my opinion, though, he's probably the most arrogant politician I've ever seen. This whole, "Will he run?" "Won't he?" has grown pretty tiresome. He's goading the Democrats, playing the public into his hands. I for one don't care. I just wish he would announce it once and for all and stop trying to 'tease' everyone. Frankly, I'm not being teased. I'm getting pissed off.

Don't get me wrong. I think he's a great speaker and an amiable guy. I just wish he'd stop acting like some sort of celebrity rock star and act more like a POLITICIAN. Anyone willing to explain why he's regarded so highly?

Thanks.

[AlteredEgo]

i always thought its almost tradition to announce your running after the holidays :o

[rdh007]

I'm not sure his name is Muslim, but anyway.

I like him because he's worked for a living before. Even if it was as a lawyer.

[Dorian Gray]

His name sounds more like an African name to me.*shrugs*

[muertevilla]

[quote=LuiECuomo] I just wish he'd stop acting like some sort of celebrity rock star and act more like a POLITICIAN. [quote]

thats not necessarily a bad thing... he isnt acting like a celebrity rock star, he is "teasing" people so we know who the hell he is at the voting booth. I actually think we need less politicians and more real working people. and the fact that he is young and black just makes it better. im tired of these white old guys running things.

[LuiECuomo]

That's true, but it is getting pretty tiresome. I think the fact that he IS acting like a celebrity is what I feel distances himself from the "real," working-class people like myself.

[CConn]

He's pretty and speaks well in public.

And that's really all you need in politics.

[muertevilla]

He is the first guy who i have seen that i feel i can talk too about whats bothering me over a burger and beer at a sports bar. i dont vote because i cant, but if i could i'd go with him. i dont feel like i can relate to any other politician that way. except maybe for clinton...that playa

[Pirateking]

As a Briton, I've only seen him on TV (namely CBS Evening News and CNN) but I'm not struck. Personally, if he decides to run and Hilary decides to run, he wouldn't stand a cta in hells chance.

[muertevilla]

yeah...i agree with you on that.

[blind_fury]

He's frank and he inspires people. A rarity in politics these days.

[Motown Marvel]

he screwed all y'alls momma's! thats whats so great about him! snoogans.

[StorminNorman]

An interesting artical I found on the Obama hype:


Barak Hussein Obama – beneath the headlines – behind the mask

Barack Hussein Obama is the current darling of America’s mainstream media and Democrats are flocking to his (as yet) unannounced presidential campaign banner.

It is amazing to witness the outpouring of Democrat support for this (very young by presidential standards) inexperienced junior US Senator with nothing but an ability to give a speech to recommend him as a viable candidate. Yet he is currently able to send chills down the spine of presumed Democrat front runner Hillary Clinton.

Admittedly, Mrs. Clinton’s ability in the area of oratory is notoriously weak. Its likely a major reason her handlers eschew all but inescapable news conferences.

Why advertise such a glaring inability to perform?

The sudden rise of Hussein Obama to prominence tells us much about the actual state of the Democrat party today. Dominated by the extreme left of the political spectrum, it is desperate for a candidate around which to rally after 8 years of having little to do but spew vitriolic hatred for George Bush.

Finally, they have an icon.

Someone who – unlike Hillary – has an unblemished record of opposing the war on terror, is a doctrinaire liberal, and best of all, is Black.

To add a cherry to the top of the Hussein Obama sundae – he is also pro gun control – an extremist issue presumed moribund years ago.

While he has no particular record of achievement in any field, Hussein Obama does offer an interesting ethnic model: he claims his maternal family history may have a possible Native American linkage. Even more amazing, he contends that same family also clims to be distant relatives of Jefferson Davis, president of the Confederacy .

Completing his genealogical hat trick, Hussein Obama has told an elderly Jewish audience during his Senate campaign that his African first name Barack is etymologically linked to the Hebrew word baruch, meaning “blessed”.

(We presume he will choose not to cite the obvious – that his middle name “Hussein” has Islamic roots ... but the campaign is still young)

Such a contrived family diversity must leave even the hyperbole-overwrought Clinton brigade slack jawed!

If his claim is to be believed – he is the first Black, Indian, Confederate, Islamic presidential candidate in US history (with a Jewish first name). If elected, he could be his own State Department!

Liberal Democrats are gushing. There are not adjectives enough for breathless network news reporters following young Hussein Obama to accurately describe the excitement he is generating as he travels the country.

But why?

Politicians who can deliver speeches well are not all that rare. Admittedly Hussein Obama is among the better ones in that field, but such a talent sooner or later wears thin. As yet, his appeal is still growing.

What is really at play is an important political revelation. Measure Hussein Obama’s popularity among Liberal Democrats – and the result is an accurate census of Hillary’s unpopularity. A measure of the degree of suspicion, revulsion, and outright hatred that is a roaring and emotional stream running hard and fast beneath the surface of Democrat presidential politics.

It’s one thing to have an “anybody but Hillary” movement, but such sentiment is far more powerful if it includes a charismatic, young, and photogenic alternative to serve as movement icon.

Hussein Obama is just such an icon for the anti Hillary hordes among Liberal Democrats. An ideal icon he is too. Without a record of service, he denies opponents negative positions and missteps from his past.

Legislatively, he can have it both ways. For example, his co-sponsorship of the Senate Immigration bill (providing amnesty for illegal aliens) which allows him to claim he is for immigration reform, without fear of alienating the pro illegal alien forces that are so dominant within Democrat circles. He can acquire Hispanic support.

Hussein Obama is a canny politician and clearly has more than competent handlers to direct his bob and weave of pre primary campaign maneuvering – a tap dance requiring great finesse, and an ability to speak a great deal without saying enough to create vulnerabilities later on.

But Hussein is not the actual candidate in this equation – Hillary is. Remove her from the chess board , and allow viable competing Democrat aspirants to emerge – some with ideals and proposals that stir great emotions among the extreme left population that dominates Democrat politics( as well as the mainstream media ) – force Obama to face the really hard attacks that are yet to come, and his poll numbers will recede rapidly. He will suddenly evolve into an attractive possibility for Vice President.

Hussein Obama’s popularity depends on Hillary’s perceived strength more than any other single factor in the political equation. As Hillary goes - up or down - so go the fortunes of young Hussein.

Hussein Obama faces trials and tribulations he cannot possibly grasp until he’s actually experienced them: the perpetual anal examination of everything he has ever said or done (he admits marijuana and cocain usage). Most certainly, he has already incurred the secret wrath of the Clintonista machine ... the ability of that entity to take on and take out opposition is a matter of great myth and legend within Arkansas politics. That wrath will not remain secret for long.

For political junkies of all philosophies, the Barak Hussein Obama case study is one of great academic interest. It provides entrails for study to discern all sorts of omens and interpretations. It will soon offer an ongoing saga of political naivete suddenly thrust into the glaring spotlight of presidential politics. After all, Howard Dean generated great liberal excitement too – waves of followers, tons of campaign cash, only to go down in flames in one hysterical moment in the wake of his first primary defeat.

In political circles, candidates who offer no real substance but provide a flashy appearance that stirs the loyal masses of a particular view point, are referred to as “glossy photographs”. No substance - all smoke and mirrors.

Hussein Obama is a glossy photograph - but one with a very important asset not always available: he has Hillary against whom he can run a campaign that can attract masses of disaffected young Democrat voters, and can benefit by the baggage she carries with her and from which she cannot escape.

They are this years “ying and yang” of Democrat politics. Barack Hussein Obama may, in the end, be as big an asset to Hillary as she is to him. His unabashed left wing political philosophy may be just what she needs to allow her to don a mask providing a patina of respectability and moderation denied her today by her record and resume - a position denied her in the absence of a major and impressive challenge from the left. Hussein Obama is just such a challenge– exactly what the political doctors tending the fortunes of the Clintons need.

[Manic]

*reads the article StorminNorman posted*

I love how they constantly use his middle name (Hussein) as if it's his first name throughout the entire article, and even once referred to him as simply "Hussein." Who wants to count how many paragraphs started with "Hussein Obama"?

[Backdrifter]

Lol. What a cheap article.

[jaguarr]

Like it or not, the guy's got your attention (as well as the rest of America's). He's building brand name recognition with these tactics and they hardly cost him a cent. He's a smart man. I'm tired of stupid people being in power, personally. Particularly ones who are more interested in lining their pockets and helping all their rich friends out. Obama understands the working class and seems to care about helping ALL of America, not just the relatively small number of people who have the majority of the wealth in the nation.

jag

[Manic]

And he's a brotha.

*black power fist*

[Man-Thing]

He tole Maureen Dowd that he is sensitive about his large ears and asked her to not point them out again.

Too much of a sissy IMO.

[Jerry]

And he's ready for the Bears to go all the way baby.

[Ben Urich]

And he's ready for the Bears to go all the way baby.

That was hilarious. :woot::up:

[Tyrinus]

I have yet to see a good reason why anyone should pay attention to this man.

[StorminNorman]

*reads the article StorminNorman posted*

I love how they constantly use his middle name (Hussein) as if it's his first name throughout the entire article, and even once referred to him as simply "Hussein." Who wants to count how many paragraphs started with "Hussein Obama"?

That bothered me too, but the article did a good job summing up why Obama is so popular right now among democrats.

[blind_fury]

I have yet to see a good reason why anyone should pay attention to this man.
Why did Bush get all that attention to begin with? Oh that right, because he's related to Bush Sr.. :whatever:

[Spider-Bite]

Here's the scoop. Personality, looks, speaking abilities shouldn't matter, but they do. The more likeable you are, the better a leader you can be, because people are more inclined to follow somebody who can charm them really good. Especially in politics. The better your approval rating, the easier it is for you to get the laws you want passed into effect, because the American people are behind you. Despite the fact that bush is an idiot, his personality really worked for him, especially when giving the chance to give powerful war speeches after 9/11. If he didn't screw up everything he touched he'd probably be a pretty popular president. It took a real bonehead to mess it up but he did. He had a popular presidencey handed to him on a silver platter, but he couldn't even figure out how to eat it properly.

Obama has got to be the most charming politicain I have ever heard speak in my life. This guy has charisma. This would help him get elected, and if elected it would increase his ability to get things done. Not to mention even though he's new, he's off to a good start. His record already is scored farther to the left than Hillary, and in my book thats a good thing!

Don't tell momma, I'm for Obama!

[blind_fury]

If a politician is honest and inspires people they deserve to be popular.

close thread.

[Caliber]

Why did Bush get all that attention to begin with? Oh that right, because he's related to Bush Sr.. :whatever:

Having the right connections helped him buy the job of being president.

[heypapajinx]

He is the first guy who i have seen that i feel i can talk too about whats bothering me over a burger and beer at a sports bar.
well he's not going to perscribe you that cream you need if THAT'S the "problem" you're talking about.:o

[muertevilla]

well he's not going to perscribe you that cream you need if THAT'S the "problem" you're talking about.:o

ohhh no thats not the problem. actually the cream you let me borrow from your medicine cabinet did the trick

[jaguarr]

ohhh no thats not the problem. actually the cream you let me borrow from your medicine cabinet did the trick

Well, considering heypapajinx's gender, I'm guessing that cream she lent you was Vagisil. :dry:

jag

[kainedamo]

If just one person could tell me Obama's policies, that would be great.

[Kipobe]

Obama Sin Laden. Heh.

[Immortalfire]

People that like him, are terror lovers! :cmad:

[bulok]

If a politician is honest and inspires people they deserve to be popular.

close thread.

Honest about what? I distinctly remember him going into some Energy conservation rally and then drive off on an SUV.


The guy's barely been in senate for a term and people are already grooming him for the next presidency. That just shows desperation in the Democrat party to find a valid charismatic leader. Why? Because their current one is just as ugly and filthy as the other party.

They both suck, Republicans and Democrats. Nowadays you just vote for the party that pisses you off the least. AT least it is for me

[muertevilla]

Honest about what? I distinctly remember him going into some Energy conservation rally and then drive off on an SUV.


The guy's barely been in senate for a term and people are already grooming him for the next presidency. That just shows desperation in the Democrat party to find a valid charismatic leader. Why? Because their current one is just as ugly and filthy as the other party.

They both suck, Republicans and Democrats. Nowadays you just vote for the party that pisses you off the least. AT least it is for me

i say they bring back the write in vote...if i voted i would write in Joe Pesci every time....who would you people write in?

[CConn]

If a politician is honest and inspires people they deserve to be popular.

close thread.No politician is honest. No politican can be honest.

And I'm not even being all "politicians are evil and suck" mode, it's just a fact. :o

[muertevilla]

Well, considering heypapajinx's gender, I'm guessing that cream she lent you was Vagisil. :dry:

jag

man...there are so many ways to respond to this...some funny....some mean....some creepy....but im just gonna go with "its just a joke" :oldrazz:

[gap5ewl]

well no one knows what he stands for or anything..just that he's a good speaker, african american, and has a lot of personality as well as representing the younger generation. I personally do like him but i dount 2008 will be his big year since he's so young...i have a feeling thouhg that he will be president in the coming years.

[muertevilla]

well no one knows what he stands for or anything..just that he's a good speaker, african american, and has a lot of personality as well as representing the younger generation. I personally do like him but i dount 2008 will be his big year since he's so young...i have a feeling thouhg that he will be president in the coming years.

yeah..he's still too green. he just needs to sit it out for a few years and coast his way towards the precidency. maybe get a few grey's goin on in his do...

[GunBlade]

Obama Sin Laden. Heh.
Nice sig, Kippy. :o :csad:

[Spidey-Bat]

On Late Night, he said Conan would be his VP. So if there is an Obama/O'Brien ticket, I won't need to think twice.

[kainedamo]

Since no one good tell me Obama's policies, I had to go look it up myself.

It all seems pretty standard stuff from what I've read so far. One thing that stands out is his opinion on healthcare. Good on him for that. Plus one for him. Another thing that stands out is that he strongly opposed going into Iraq in the first place. Another plus for Obama.

[3 Dev Adam]

Hussein Obama. Is that a name or a double threat?

[kainedamo]

What religion is Obama anyway??

I found this very cool article by Obama, talking about religion. I like the guy more and more. And not because hes a guy I can have a drink with, as some people have said. But I like his opinions.

My faith shapes my values, but applying those values to policymaking must be done with principles that are accessible to all people, religious or not. Even so, those who enter the public square are not required to leave their beliefs at the door.
For some time now, there has been talk among pundits and pollsters that the political divide in this country falls sharply along religious lines. Indeed, the single biggest gap in party affiliation among white Americans today is not between men and women, between red states and blue, but between those who attend church regularly and those who don't.

This gap has long been exploited by conservative leaders such as Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, who tell evangelical Christians that Democrats disrespect their values and dislike their church, while suggesting that religious Americans care only about issues such as abortion and gay marriage.

It's a gap that has also been kept open by some liberals, who might try to avoid the conversation about their religious values altogether, fearful of offending anyone and claiming that constitutional principles tie their hands. Some might even dismiss religion in the public square as inherently irrational or intolerant, thinking that the very word "Christian" describes one's political opponents, not people of faith.

And yet, despite all this division, we are united by the fact that Americans are a deeply religious people. Ninety percent of us believe in God, 70% affiliate ourselves with an organized religion, and 38% call ourselves committed Christians.

This is why, if political leaders truly hope to communicate our hopes and values to Americans in a way that's relevant to their own, we cannot abandon the field of religious discourse.

My lesson

I've fallen into this trap myself. During my 2004 Senate race, my opponent said, "Jesus Christ would not vote for Barack Obama." I answered with what has come to be the typically liberal response: that we live in a pluralistic society, and that I can't impose my religious views on another. I said I was running to be the U.S. senator of Illinois, and not the minister of Illinois.

But my opponent's accusations nagged at me, and I knew that my answer didn't address the role my faith has in guiding my values. I, like other progressives, should have realized that when we ignore what it means to be a good Christian or Muslim or Jew, when we discuss religion only in the negative sense of where or how it should not be practiced, when we shy away from religious venues because we think we'll be unwelcome, others will fill the vacuum: those with the most insular views of faith, or those who cynically use religion to justify partisan ends.

Moreover, it's wrong to ask believers to leave their religion at the door before entering the public square. Abraham Lincoln, William Jennings Bryan, Martin Luther King Jr. — indeed, the majority of great reformers in American history — were not only motivated by faith, they also used religious language to argue for their cause. To say men and women should not inject their "personal morality" into policy debates is a practical absurdity; our law is by definition a codification of morality.

If progressives shed some of these biases, we might recognize the overlapping values that both religious and secular people share when it comes to the direction of our country. We might recognize that the call to sacrifice, the need to think in terms of "thou" and not just "I," resonates with all Americans. And we might realize that we have the ability to reach out to the evangelical community and engage millions of religious Americans in the larger project of America's renewal.

But the conservative leaders of the religious right will need to acknowledge a few truths about religion as well.

For one, the separation of church and state in America has preserved not only our democracy but also the robustness of our religious practice. After all, during our founding, it was not the civil libertarians who were the most effective champions of this separation; it was the persecuted religious minorities concerned that any state-sponsored religion might hinder their ability to practice their faith.

Universal values

This separation is critical to our form of government because in the end, democracy demands that the religiously motivated translate their concerns into universal, rather than religion-specific, values. It requires that their proposals be subject to argument, and amenable to reason. If I am opposed to abortion for religious reasons but seek to pass a law banning the practice, I cannot simply point to the teachings of my church. I have to explain why abortion violates some principle that is accessible to people of all faiths, including those with no faith at all.

This might be difficult for those who believe in the inerrancy of the Bible, but in a pluralistic democracy, we have no choice. Politics involves compromise, the art of the possible. But religion does not allow for compromise. To base one's life on such uncompromising commitments may be sublime; to base our policymaking on them would be dangerous.

In the months and years to come, I am hopeful we can bridge these gaps and overcome the prejudices each of us brings to this debate. I believe that Americans want this. No matter how religious they may or may not be, people are tired of seeing faith used as a tool to attack and divide.

Americans are looking for a deeper, fuller conversation about religion in this country. They might not change their positions on certain issues, but they are willing to listen and learn from those who are willing to speak in reasonable terms — those who know of the central and awesome place that God holds in the lives of so many, and who refuse to treat faith as simply another political issue with which to score points.

[Asteroid-Man]

Well his name does look like Osama. I could imaine Bush saying, Is it true your name is like a terrorist name or not? And everyones like wtf muhuhahahaha. Oh ya, I got back from Isreal. Y'all miss me? Oops off topic. But ya, he looks like a good man

[kainedamo]

If he does decide to run, I wouldn't put it past Foxnews to point out, over and over and over again, how Muslim sounding his name is and how his name sounds like Osama.

[3 Dev Adam]

Obama HUSSEIN. Think about it.

[Asteroid-Man]

it's the other way around genius ;)

[3 Dev Adam]

I stand corrected, but the effect is the same.

[jaguarr]

Are some of you people actually suggesting that Obama could possibly have terrorist ties solely because he has a Muslim name? Wow...

jag

[3 Dev Adam]

Are some of you people actually suggesting that Obama could possibly have terrorist ties solely because he has a Muslim name? Wow...

jag

Well, not ME cause I know enough muslims to know that they're harmless and can hardly differentiate a pack of explosives from a pack of butter.

But Joe S. Public surely will.

[jaguarr]

Well, not ME cause I know enough muslims to know that they're harmless and can hardly differentiate a pack of explosives from a pack of butter.

But Joe S. Public surely will.

Only the idiots. At any rate, I'm thinking Obama is aware of this possibilty and has a plan to deal with it. So many of the Dem's have no idea how to effectively counteract all the disinformation some of the Republicans and their cronies sling at and about them, but I don't see that being a problem with Obama. He's too smart to play into their hands. Could get interesting.

jag

[terry78]

^People are idiots. I know they say give the public the benefit of the doubt, but I never do.

[Honey Vibe]

I think a lot of people just like the fact that he's black, handsome, intelligent, and loaded, regardless of what he stands for. In the end, he's not taken any more seriously than other "black leaders". Leaders of what and whom? You? Me?

[terry78]

I think a lot of people just like the fact that he's black, handsome, and seemingly progressive. It doesn't matter what he stands for. ...In the end, I believe he's not taken any more seriously than other "black leaders". Leaders of what and whom? You? Me?
Well, even if there is a black leader that stands for something other than just for that fact, will he even get a fair shake to showcase it? That sounds pessimistic, but come on.

[Matt]

He tole Maureen Dowd that he is sensitive about his large ears and asked her to not point them out again.

Too much of a sissy IMO.

Yeah, well, according to you if you don't support an 8 year old working in a sweat shop you're a sissy.

[Matt]

Anyhow, I've been meaning to post in this thread. I've never been a big fan of Obama. Not as much as others anyhow. He's done pretty much nothing in 2 years in the senate and yet people act like he is a national hero who completely reformed the system. However, I recently finished his book...I have to say, I was very very impressed by it. I look forward to seeing what he does with Democrats in power. I may very well change my opinion on him.

[kainedamo]

Are some of you people actually suggesting that Obama could possibly have terrorist ties solely because he has a Muslim name? Wow...

jag


No. Unless I missed it, all anyone here is saying is that people might make a big deal out of his name. Like Foxnews.

[Chris B]

You know, I think that Barack Obama's biggest problem running for President is that he really doesn't have any solutions to the problems facing the U.S. right now. I'm reminded of that article Time did on him back in October, when the writer where he stood and you could tell that he wasn't really sure. Unless he starts to develop solutions, this will be what kills him in the primaries.

[Arkady Rossovich]

Nothing really.I dont think anything is good about him,he reminds me of Howard Dean from the 2004 American election.A bright face,but eventually just dissapeared.I think the Democrats are using him to bring potential votes to their real choice in the 2008 election.

[Eddie Brock]

Obama Sin Laden?

[comicgirl]

I'd really like an answer.

Is it because he's a young black man with a Muslim name? Or is it because he is a charismatic speaker who spoke at the Democratic National Convention?

Really, what has he done? I mean, he has a fairly clean political record. In my opinion, though, he's probably the most arrogant politician I've ever seen. This whole, "Will he run?" "Won't he?" has grown pretty tiresome. He's goading the Democrats, playing the public into his hands. I for one don't care. I just wish he would announce it once and for all and stop trying to 'tease' everyone. Frankly, I'm not being teased. I'm getting pissed off.

Don't get me wrong. I think he's a great speaker and an amiable guy. I just wish he'd stop acting like some sort of celebrity rock star and act more like a POLITICIAN. Anyone willing to explain why he's regarded so highly?

Thanks.Because, he DOESN'T act like your usual "let me put my hand in your pocket" politician.

[Chris B]

He just announced it today. I like Barack Obama, but 2008 is too early for him to run for President, IMO.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/01/16/ap/politics/mainD8MMF3481.shtml

[blind_fury]

yeah. it's way too early.

you don't need an exploratory committee to realize that.

[StorminNorman]

Most people who like Obama can't name one thing he has done in politics or really what he stands for.

He may not be a bad candidate - but his fanfare is a bit silly.

[blind_fury]

If a candidate is frank and inspires people they deserve more fanfare then say someone who is popular simply because their daddy was president.

coughBushcough

[StorminNorman]

If a candidate is frank and inspires people they deserve more fanfare then say someone who is popular simply because their daddy was president.

coughBushcough

:rolleyes: - yes because his well respected record as Governor of one of the countries largest states meant nothing.

[blind_fury]

yeah, his last name had nothing to do with his popularity. LOL!

[StorminNorman]

yeah, his last name had nothing to do with his popularity. LOL!

I never dismissed that - but to say that was his only accomplishment is simply incorrect. Did it help him get the Texas Governorship? Sure. Did it help it get the Presidency? Sure. Was it the reason he won the Presidency? No.

[kytrigger]

Especially when his father wasn't popular enough to win a second term...

[Ben Urich]

No man who traded Sammy Sosa for Harold Baines should be allowed to lead the free world. :o

Oh, and Obama needs to wait.

[blind_fury]

I never dismissed that - but to say that was his only accomplishment is simply incorrect. Did it help him get the Texas Governorship? Sure. Did it help it get the Presidency? Sure. Was it the reason he won the Presidency? No.
Well Bush won the presidency for many assorted reasons.

But to say a politician who inspires people doesn't deserve fanfare is ridiculous. Leaders who inspire are desperately needed today. It's the reason so many are disengaged from the political process and our democracy.

[blind_fury]

Especially when his father wasn't popular enough to win a second term...
His father was popular. Just not as appealing as a young, idealistic Bill Clinton.

[kytrigger]

His father was popular. Just not as appealing as a young, idealistic Bill Clinton.
Right, but I was just pointing out that he was nowhere near popular enough to get his son elected on his name alone. I agree that it definately helped though.

[MaskedManJRK]

Most people who like Obama can't name one thing he has done in politics or really what he stands for.

He may not be a bad candidate - but his fanfare is a bit silly.

Yeah, he doesn't have a lot of political expierence, but I think that might turn out to be a strength for him.

Personally, I think plenty of people in America are sick and tired of all the politics and bulls**t that comes from these elections, and perhaps having someone who's new in the game, hasn't done as much policial actions, might not do the traditional political game, and do something that hasn't happened in a long, long, LONG time--a smart campaign that focuses on the issues that really matter and why HE would make a good President, instead of the traditional slander campaign that we're used to.

[StorminNorman]

Well Bush won the presidency for many assorted reasons.

But to say a politician who inspires people doesn't deserve fanfare is ridiculous. Leaders who inspire are desperately needed today. It's the reason so many are disengaged from the political process and our democracy.

Why does he inspire though? It has nothing to do with what he believes in, or what he stands for - it has to do with him being a young, good looking politician.

[Eros]

I dun like this Barack Obama lol, or whatever he calls himself.

[blind_fury]

Why does he inspire though? It has nothing to do with what he believes in, or what he stands for - it has to do with him being a young, good looking politician.
John Edwards is young and good-looking but he doesn't energize crowds like Obama can. Obama inspires people with his passionate speeches the same way JFK and Lincoln did.

and I think people see what he stand for. He stands for MLK's dream. He stands for compassionate yet practical liberal values. He stand's for the ethnic outsider who achieves the American dream. He stands for the few mavericks and idealist left in politics today. To say he stands for nothing simply isn't true. He symbolizes alot to people tired of Bush and the neo-con agenda.

[sinewave]

Why does he inspire though? It has nothing to do with what he believes in, or what he stands for - it has to do with him being a young, good looking politician.

charisma plays a huge part in presidential campaigns. aside from his looks and charm, he seems to be very open and frank, which is a huge departure from modern politics. people respond to that. i don't know enough about his political career, but he really doesn't have much less political experience than john edwards. he's got more federal governmental experience than bush jr. prior to his run in 2000, so his lack of expereince shouldn't be much of a factor. besides, good presidents surround themselves with good staffs. if he were to win the '08 election i trust his judgement over that of our current president when choosing his cabinet.

[Eros]

John Edwards is young and good-looking but he doesn't energize crowds like Obama can. Obama inspires people with his passionate speeches the same way JFK and Lincoln did.

and I think people see what he stand for. He stands for MLK's dream. He stands for compassionate yet practical liberal values. He stand's for the ethnic outsider who achieves the American dream. He stands for the few mavericks and idealist left in politics today. To say he stands for nothing simply isn't true. He symbolizes alot to people tired of Bush and the neo-con agenda.

Yea he "Barack" sounds like a terrorist spy, he was implanted into our goverment.

[kytrigger]

Yea he "Barack" sounds like a terrorist spy, he was implanted into our goverment.
So i guess you really hate that his middle name is Hussein

[Eros]

So i guess you really hate that his middle name is Hussein

That just makes it worse:woot: .

[jaguarr]

:rolleyes: - yes because his well respected record as Governor of one of the countries largest states meant nothing.

Well respected record? Bush? Where? He's driven everything he's ever been in charge of straight into the ground, including Texas. The guy's record should have been a giant warning sign to everyone that he is a giant jackass.

jag

[Mr Sparkle]

But all those Oil Drilling companies.....the ones that...uh...went Bankrupt...
uh...no?:huh: Harken Energy?...no...wait, the corruption thing.
well, he DID execute the mentally retarded while he was governor of Texas
that shows that he us unscrupulous enough to run a country.

so yeah, Obama has none of that going for him.

[Eros]

^plus Obama is a secret Terrorist spy.

[blind_fury]

It wasn't funny the first time you said it. :whatever:

[Eros]

It wasn't funny the first time you said it. :whatever:

It could be true dude, and thats what scares you.

[kytrigger]

It could be true dude, and thats what scares you.
nah. If he was a secret terrorist, then he would have a less obvious name...like John Smith

[muertevilla]

It could be true dude, and thats what scares you.

send me your address so i can send you a singing *****-slap telegram.

[Eros]

nah. If he was a secret terrorist, then he would have a less obvious name...like John Smith

The best way to hide is in the wide open. His name is such a dead give away, nobody will suspect it.

[kytrigger]

The best way to hide is in the wide open. His name is such a dead give away, nobody will suspect it.
except you :ninja:

[Chris B]

Most people who like Obama can't name one thing he has done in politics or really what he stands for.

He may not be a bad candidate - but his fanfare is a bit silly.

I agree. Unless he outlines what he would do as President, he'll lose in the primaries next year.

[sinewave]

I agree. Unless he outlines what he would do as President, he'll lose in the primaries next year.

what's the point? almost every time a candidate does this and actually wins the election he fails to follow through with his campaign promises. i think the fact that he's smart, charismatic and thoughtful is good enough to win these days. the average voter isn't very informed on the specifics of each candidate, so image plays the biggest role.

[Chris B]

what's the point? almost every time a candidate does this and actually wins the election he fails to follow through with his campaign promises. i think the fact that he's smart, charismatic and thoughtful is good enough to win these days. the average voter isn't very informed on the specifics of each candidate, so image plays the biggest role.

But from the perspective of primary voters, the Democrats are going to look for who they perceive as being electable. The several years in the Senate, a lack of any real accomplishments, and the unique name could work against Obama.

[Matt]

Most people who like Obama can't name one thing he has done in politics or really what he stands for.

He may not be a bad candidate - but his fanfare is a bit silly.

Thank you! He has done nothing so far. I'd much rather see Mark Warner. Obama is just like Howard Dean. The hype will die out once people realize there isn't much substance behind it. I'm not saying he is a bad guy or anything...he just hasn't done anything to warrant his being elected to the highest office in the country.

[Matt]

^plus Obama is a secret Terrorist spy.

You really are a simple person, aren't you?

[Matt]

If a candidate is frank and inspires people they deserve more fanfare then say someone who is popular simply because their daddy was president.

coughBushcough

Bush's inadequecies do not excuse Obama's. Funny though, I am almost positive you have used that same argument, Blind Fury when people compare Bush to Clinton. You are just as bad as Eros.

[hippie_hunter]

His father was popular. Just not as appealing as a young, idealistic Bill Clinton.

To be fair, the economy went down at the WRONG time for the original Bush.

[sinewave]

But from the perspective of primary voters, the Democrats are going to look for who they perceive as being electable. The several years in the Senate, a lack of any real accomplishments, and the unique name could work against Obama.

i don't see any other democrat with a significantly better chance at winning the primary. hillary is extremely controversial even within her own party, biden is bill clinton-esque (which could be good or bad) and not a big enough name, edwards has about as much experience as obama and is considered an ambulance chaser, kucinich is kucinich and john kerry is just plain lousy. obama's name is everywhere and you rarely hear anything negative about the guy, except when right-wingers are trying to purposely confuse him with bin laden.

[Matt]

To be fair, the economy went down at the WRONG time for the original Bush.

Its his own fault though

Bush Sr. would've won were it not for Perot. Perot would not have done nearly as well if Bush weren't so stupid as to promise no new taxes.

[hippie_hunter]

But all those Oil Drilling companies.....the ones that...uh...went Bankrupt...
uh...no?:huh: Harken Energy?...no...wait, the corruption thing.
well, he DID execute the mentally retarded while he was governor of Texas
that shows that he us unscrupulous enough to run a country.

so yeah, Obama has none of that going for him.

Asides from the high number of executions Bush did while governor of Texas and creating Jesus Day, it appears that he actually did not do a bad job running the state. Today, Texas has the second largest economy in the United States and the tenth largest economy in the world.

[jaguarr]

Thank you! He has done nothing so far. I'd much rather see Mark Warner. Obama is just like Howard Dean. The hype will die out once people realize there isn't much substance behind it. I'm not saying he is a bad guy or anything...he just hasn't done anything to warrant his being elected to the highest office in the country.

I kind of agree. I like Obama and what very little he's hinted at in terms of his stance on issues I've liked, but it's not enough. I need to know what the burning issues are for him and what he proposes to do to fix them. I still like him as a VP candidate on a Mark Warner for Prez bill. This would give the Dem's a strong VP they could groom for the big chair once Warner's had his run.

jag

[Armand Z Trip]

Thank you! He has done nothing so far. I'd much rather see Mark Warner. Obama is just like Howard Dean. The hype will die out once people realize there isn't much substance behind it. I'm not saying he is a bad guy or anything...he just hasn't done anything to warrant his being elected to the highest office in the country.

I thought you were voting for the Green Party because of the Pelosi gay marriage hammer and sickle abortions for 13 year olds agenda?

[hippie_hunter]

Its his own fault though

Bush Sr. would've won were it not for Perot. Perot would not have done nearly as well if Bush weren't so stupid as to promise no new taxes.

Very true.

[Matt]

I kind of agree. I like Obama and what very little he's hinted at in terms of his stance on issues I've liked, but it's not enough. I need to know what the burning issues are for him and what he proposes to do to fix them. I still like him as a VP candidate on a Mark Warner for Prez bill. This would give the Dem's a strong VP they could groom for the big chair once Warner's had his run.

jag

I agree to an extent. I am weary of Obama. Aside from him seeming almost....too good, like its an act...it bothers me that he won't clearly state his stance on anything. He pussy foots around everything. Like he is scared he will rattle things too much if he clearly takes a stance. Say what you want about Bush, at least I know where he stands on things even if I disagree with 95 % of it. Plus the fact that he won't state where he stands sort of furthers my view that it is all an act.

[comicgirl]

Asides from the high number of executions Bush did while governor of Texas and creating Jesus Day, it appears that he actually did not do a bad job running the state. Today, Texas has the second largest economy in the United States and the tenth largest economy in the world.Nope....he actually bankrupted the state instituting the TexasCHIP plan for "disadvanaged families". Apparently, he approved the plan, knowing there was only enough $$ to fund it for 18 months. But, he was campaigning for Pres then. Go figure

My company is still getting calls from dentists that have never been paid by the state....after they stopped paying us. Dubya = keep you hand on your wallet

BHO rocks!

[Armand Z Trip]

I kind of agree. I like Obama and what very little he's hinted at in terms of his stance on issues I've liked, but it's not enough. I need to know what the burning issues are for him and what he proposes to do to fix them. I still like him as a VP candidate on a Mark Warner for Prez bill. This would give the Dem's a strong VP they could groom for the big chair once Warner's had his run.

jag

I think a Warner/Obama ticket would be really successful.

[Matt]

I thought you were voting for the Green Party because of the Pelosi gay marriage hammer and sickle abortions for 13 year olds agenda?

:rolleyes: That is overly simplistic and you know it. I would still vote for a good democrat candidate like Warner or Richardson (although neither of them will win).

[jaguarr]

I agree to an extent. I am weary of Obama. Aside from him seeming almost....too good, like its an act...it bothers me that he won't clearly state his stance on anything. He pussy foots around everything. Like he is scared he will rattle things too much if he clearly takes a stance. Say what you want about Bush, at least I know where he stands on things even if I disagree with 95 % of it. Plus the fact that he won't state where he stands sort of furthers my view that it is all an act.

I don't know. With Obama I think we're seeing someone who really understands how to market himself, build a brand name, use a bit of mystery to his advantage and has plans to start hammering the issues when the time is right. I think he's all about gaining visibility and getting his name on people's lips at the moment, personally. He's running this a lot different from what we've seen most politicians do over the last 40 years and I kind of like it. I'm not writing him off yet.

jag

[sinewave]

I kind of agree. I like Obama and what very little he's hinted at in terms of his stance on issues I've liked, but it's not enough. I need to know what the burning issues are for him and what he proposes to do to fix them. I still like him as a VP candidate on a Mark Warner for Prez bill. This would give the Dem's a strong VP they could groom for the big chair once Warner's had his run.

jag

that would be ideal, but unless warner announces that he's changed his mind and decided to run afterall, i say we stop "what if" talk about him.

[Armand Z Trip]

:rolleyes: That is overly simplistic and you know it. I would still vote for a good democrat candidate like Warner or Richardson (although neither of them will win).

I was just kidding. Do you think Warner can get votes from the South?

[comicgirl]

I think a Warner/Obama ticket would be really successful.or him and Roberts...he's going to be Pres or Veep this time around...

[Matt]

I don't know. With Obama I think we're seeing someone who really understands how to market himself, build a brand name, use a bit of mystery to his advantage and has plans to start hammering the issues when the time is right. I think he's all about gaining visibility and getting his name on people's lips at the moment, personally. He's running this a lot different from what we've seen most politicians do over the last 40 years and I kind of like it. I'm not writing him off yet.

jag

Nor am I writing him off. I just don't think he is as good as he acts.

[jaguarr]

that would be ideal, but unless warner announces that he's changed his mind and decided to run afterall, i say we stop "what if" talk about him.

I thought he announced that he had decided to run an exploratory committee after his announcement came that he wasn't going to run?

jag

[jaguarr]

Nor am I writing him off. I just don't think he is as good as he acts.

Don't project on Obama, Matt. :dry:

jag

[Matt]

I was just kidding. Do you think Warner get votes from the South?

Definitely. He is from the south and a moderate.

[sinewave]

I thought he announced that he had decided to run an exploratory committee after his announcement came that he wasn't going to run?

jag

really? when did that happen?

[Matt]

really? when did that happen?

Month or so ago.

[Mike_D202]

haha, i think this guy is gonna win. hes like a white black man (if that makes any sense). i think he was built by the politicians cause he popped out of nowhere. hes gonna win.

[sinewave]

Month or so ago.

cool! the last i had heard was he didn't want to take time away from his family by running, but if he's changed his mind then great! speculate away! :yay:

[sinewave]

haha, i think this guy is gonna win. hes like a white black man (if that makes any sense). i think he was built by the politicians cause he popped out of nowhere. hes gonna win.

:huh: well, he is part white and part black...

[Matt]

haha, i think this guy is gonna win. hes like a white black man (if that makes any sense). i think he was built by the politicians cause he popped out of nowhere. hes gonna win.

Sounds just like what everyone was saying about Howard Dean

[jaguarr]

Sounds just like what everyone was saying about Howard Dean

LOFL! :D

jag

[Armand Z Trip]

Definitely. He is from the south and a moderate.

That's why I hope he is the nominee. It seems no one from the north can be President anymore. However, Obama just has this appeal. He is a tremendous orator, his convention speech was astounding. I'm reading his book, The Audacity of Hope, I just fear that he is so centrist, that when the Republican's pull out the long knives he won't respond in kind.

[raybia]

He just announced it today. I like Barack Obama, but 2008 is too early for him to run for President, IMO.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/01/16/ap/politics/mainD8MMF3481.shtml


Same thing could have been said about Lincoln as well.


No, whether he wins or not, this is the time for him to run. If he does well then its quite possible he would be asked to be the running mate.

[hippie_hunter]

I was just kidding. Do you think Warner can get votes from the South?

Yes, Warner was very successful as governor of Virigina and can be attributed for allowing the Democrats of keeping the governorship in that state.

[hippie_hunter]

I was just kidding. Do you think Warner can get votes from the South?

Yes, Warner was very successful as governor of Virigina and can be attributed for allowing the Democrats of keeping the governorship in that state.

[Showtime]

As long as he doesn't pull a John Kerry or Howard Dean he has as good a shot as any.

[sinewave]

That's why I hope he is the nominee. It seems no one from the north can be President anymore. However, Obama just has this appeal. He is a tremendous orator, his convention speech was astounding. I'm reading his book, The Audacity of Hope, I just fear that he is so centrist, that when the Republican's pull out the long knives he won't respond in kind.

yeah, that puzzles me too. i think it has to do somewhat with the whole unfair "northern liberal elitist" stereotype that the conservative movement has hoisted on the north.

[Chris B]

i don't see any other democrat with a significantly better chance at winning the primary. hillary is extremely controversial even within her own party, biden is bill clinton-esque (which could be good or bad) and not a big enough name, edwards has about as much experience as obama and is considered an ambulance chaser, kucinich is kucinich and john kerry is just plain lousy. obama's name is everywhere and you rarely hear anything negative about the guy, except when right-wingers are trying to purposely confuse him with bin laden.

Actually, I think that John Edwards has a good shot of winning the Democratic nomination. He has built a strong base in Iowa, has built a good relationship with Nevade labor unions, and could win again in South Carolina. Victories in those early caucus/primary states would give him the momentum needed to win the nomination.

[Chris B]

:rolleyes: That is overly simplistic and you know it. I would still vote for a good democrat candidate like Warner or Richardson (although neither of them will win).

I think that Warner could still win in the primaries. I think that main problem facing him would be the flip flop about running.

[Immortalfire]

As long as he doesn't pull a John Kerry or Howard Dean he has as good a shot as any. Blaming Bush for everything under the sun, and yelling and screaming like a maniac?

[Chris B]

really? when did that happen?

The report was more along the lines of him reconsidering and that he was going to wait and see what happens over the coming months before making anykind of new decision. This came from Politcal Wire.

[Showtime]

Blaming Bush for everything under the sun, and yelling and screaming like a maniac?

That's it in a nutshell my Immortal friend.

Kerry's biggest downfall was the addition of Edwards, a stronger VP might have given him a bigger boost. I believe Gephardt was the other choice, which would have landed him more votes.

[sinewave]

Actually, I think that John Edwards has a good shot of winning the Democratic nomination. He has built a strong base in Iowa, has built a good relationship with Nevade labor unions, and could win again in South Carolina. Victories in those early caucus/primary states would give him the momentum needed to win the nomination.

yeah, the fact that edwards is from the south does give him an advantage over obama. other than that, they're pretty similar candidates.

[sinewave]

Blaming Bush for everything under the sun, and yelling and screaming like a maniac?

i still don't get how one odd sounding expression of excitement derailed an entire campaign. the press unjustly crucified him over that.

[Eros]

Once the general populace learns his full name, no one will vote for him lol.

[sinewave]

still riding that dead horse, eh eros?

[Showtime]

i still don't get how one odd sounding expression of excitement derailed an entire campaign. the press unjustly crucified him over that.

It was a little ridiculous, but that's what happens in politics. The press killed Kerry because of his flip-flopping on issues as well.

[sinewave]

It was a little ridiculous, but that's what happens in politics. The press killed Kerry because of his flip-flopping on issues as well.

it was more than ridiculous. it cost him the entire campaign because they wouldn't shut up about it. as for kerry, two things cost him the election; 1) a feckless and docile campaign strategy, and 2) the dirty swift-boat b.s.

[Eros]

PRESIDENT BARACK HUESSIN OBAMA lol.

[Armand Z Trip]

10 out of 10 Hype Democrats agree...anybody but Hillary!

[Showtime]

it was more than ridiculous. it cost him the entire campaign because they wouldn't shut up about it. as for kerry, two things cost him the election; 1) a feckless and docile campaign strategy, and 2) the dirty swift-boat b.s.

I think Edwards hurt him on top of that.

[raybia]

PRESIDENT BARACK HUESSIN OBAMA lol.

:dry:

[raybia]

PRESIDENT BARACK HUESSIN OBAMA lol.

Doesn't quite fit the eurocentric expectations does it?

[sinewave]

I think Edwards hurt him on top of that.

how so?

[Eros]

Doesn't quite fit the eurocentric expectations does it?


Hes a terrorist spy, once people find out his full name, he will be laughed out of the country.

[raybia]

Hes a terrorist spy, once people find out his full name, he will be laughed out of the country.

Is this an failed attempt at humor or are you serious?

[Eros]

Is this an failed attempt at humor or are you serious?

hey since "BARACK":whatever: ain't running in 08 anyway, who cares.

[raybia]

hey since "BARACK":whatever: ain't running in 08 anyway, who cares.

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=obama

Yeah, I see how you came to that conclusion. :whatever:

[Eros]

Interesting I prefer non terrorist Hilary Clinton running, now she is pretty cool

[raybia]

Extaordinary.

[Matt]

I think that Warner could still win in the primaries. I think that main problem facing him would be the flip flop about running.

Obama will have the same problem then. Although I doubt it. Anyone who plays that card will be seen as desperate. Republicans attacked Kerry's voting record with flipflopping. Not a personal decision.

[Mike_D202]

Obama has a secret radio watch that he uses to contact Bush and Cheny. After he wins, they'll be living in a secret room in the White House while Obama carries out they're orders!

[Arkady Rossovich]

I seriously dont think Obama will be President,the Democrats are just using a fresh face to gain leverage so when their real choice is picked,they can then go on to claim the Presidency.

[Chris B]

yeah, the fact that edwards is from the south does give him an advantage over obama. other than that, they're pretty similar candidates.

And the fact that Edwards and Obama are similar candidates propels me to wonder whether or not they will split the liberal vote in the primaries.

[Chris B]

Obama will have the same problem then. Although I doubt it. Anyone who plays that card will be seen as desperate. Republicans attacked Kerry's voting record with flipflopping. Not a personal decision.

The thing is, Warner was making moves that were perceived as preparing himself for a run, and he publicized his exit from the race. I can just see the Perot comparisons being used.

[lazur]

He just announced it today. I like Barack Obama, but 2008 is too early for him to run for President, IMO.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/01/16/ap/politics/mainD8MMF3481.shtml

The man has no position on anything. Sure, he has a great personality and is charismatic and all that, but when he's cornered on the issues, he's like a deer in headlights in terms of how he completely bs's his response.

[Spider-Bite]

Barracks been in for two years. For being in there only two years, he's got an expected record, minus kankar sores.

If I had to vote in the primary today it would be Obama. I'm just sick of all the bull****, the bull****ters have been giving us for so long, and if we elect one of those bull****ters, were only going to get more bull****. Obama might do the same, but at least with him it's possible that we might get something different.

Nobody can say where Hillary stands on anything either, because it seems like she will say or do anything to get elected.

John Edwards? I was kind of offended on Martin Luther King day. Edwards voted for the war, and ONLY changed his position because Howard Dean was whipping his ass in the primaries, and now he wants to bank on it by standing at the same podium where a real patriot Martin Luther King, denounced the VietNam war? It was too fake, and by doing something so fake I felt he was insulting King's memory.

I'm not completely decided, but as of now I'm rooting for Obama. I genuinely believe he's a nice guy, and wants to help. And he's either more sincere than the other candidates or he's a better actor, and if he was just a better actor, I think he'd have gone into acting where he could have made more money.

My fear is that the south will do what they did to Herald Ford with race bating commercials. My blood already boils thinking about the possibility of it happening.

It's possible Al Gore could get me, but I think the only way I'll swing away from Obama, is if some miracle happened and Dean was suddenly electable without selling out.

And for the people who claim not to know what he's about? He's only off to an early start, but it's an early liberal start, while polls show that voters assume he's moderate. But he is not moderate. He is liberal, and on energy policy he's a LOT better than Hillary, and energy policy is an important aspect of fighting the war on terror!

Here's to Obama!

[Spider-Bite]

:rolleyes: - yes because his well respected record as Governor of one of the countries largest states meant nothing.


Well respected my ass! He lowered Texas's minimum wage, and worked for the oil companies. He wasn't well respected. He didn't even do a good job. He sucks.

[Spider-Bite]

I never dismissed that - but to say that was his only accomplishment is simply incorrect. Did it help him get the Texas Governorship? Sure. Did it help it get the Presidency? Sure. Was it the reason he won the Presidency? No.


Jeb Bush was the reason he won the presidency.

[Joker]

I never dismissed that - but to say that was his only accomplishment is simply incorrect. Did it help him get the Texas Governorship? Sure. Did it help it get the Presidency? Sure. Was it the reason he won the Presidency? No.

the no for that last question is only true because he didnt really win it the first time :o

[hippie_hunter]

Jeb Bush was the reason he won the presidency.

No he won the Presidency due to the idiotic electoral vote. He did win Florida though. Not because of connections or shadey doing.

[sinewave]

No he won the Presidency due to the idiotic electoral vote. He did win Florida though. Not because of connections or shadey doing.

says you! *shakes fist in angry anger* :cmad:

[C-$]

Unfortunately for Obama, Hillay Clinton's campaign crew dug up some dirt on his background. Obama had people believing that he was father was an atheist and his mother was into several religions but she wasn't a religious woman. The truth is that he was a devout muslim growing and so was both of his parents. I don't know if he still follows the muslim faith but his chance of becoming a U.S president could be over. I don't think it's a big deal that he was a devout muslim but he shouldn't of lied about his background. An intelligent man like Obama should know that you can't hide certain things about your past and someone will dig up dirt on you.

[Mr Sparkle]

Unfortunately for Obama, Hillay Clinton's campaign crew dug up some dirt on his background. Obama had people believing that he was father was an atheist and his mother was into several religions but she wasn't a religious woman. The truth is that he was a devout muslim growing and so was both of his parents. I don't know if he still follows the muslim faith but his chance of becoming a U.S president could be over. I don't think it's a big deal that he was a devout muslim but he shouldn't of lied about his background. An intelligent man like Obama should know that you can't hide certain things about your past and someone will dig up dirt on you.

and this is why I pray for nuclear holocaust.

[Darthphere]

As long as he can keep me from getting blowed up I could give 3 ****s what religion his parents and him practiced, or didn't.

[Badger]

He wouldn't have gotten elected anyway, but if true, this is the nail in the coffin.

Because he lied, not his religon.

[Showtime]

Where's the article on this then?

[Spider-Bite]

oh come on! come on!

where did you hear this?

And if Hillary uses somebody's religion against them then she doesn't deserve to be the democratic nominee.

[Mr Sparkle]

no, no, no.
you people don't get it!
he prayed to the enemy's god!!!!!

[Darthphere]

"But Mr. Sparkle, isn't he the same God we worship?"

[Mr Sparkle]

well, don't tell anyone.
but.....uh.....they don't worship Christ.
Oh SNAP son! it's on now!!!!

[Darthphere]

"But dont they respect him dearly as one of the greatest prohpets in the Muslim religion?"

[Mr Sparkle]

NO! you don't get it!!!!
Muslims = Terror
everyone knows that!!! why are you being so difficult? :cmad:

[Hades]

That seems pretty low....pleh

[Duende Verde]

Breaking News:

If you change the "B" in Obama for the letter "S", you get OSAMA!:wow:

[Darthphere]

NO! you don't get it!!!!
Muslims = Terror
everyone knows that!!! why are you being so difficult? :cmad:

"But doesn't Islam promote peace and its only been warped by radicals?"

[Badger]

"But dont they respect him dearly as one of the greatest prohpets in the Muslim religion?"

Yeah, he is one of the four prophets.

[Matt]

Link please.

[Mr Sparkle]

"But doesn't Islam promote peace and its only been warped by radicals?"

well, tell me the last time a Christian group of terrorists flew planes into buildings huh?:whatever:
this SHOULD cost him the election.
he "shouldn't of" lied to us.:cmad::cmad::cmad: