The Obama Thread (Merged x6)

[BlackLantern]

So she'll be willing to completely kill not only her own legacy, but her husband's? I mean, I've never been Clinton's biggest defender, but not even I believe she is that masochistic.

Women are vindictive.....:oldrazz:.....but seriously, she seems to me the type that truly believes she is the right candidate for the party and if things don't go her way, shes' willing to destroy everything to spite Obama

[souvlaki]

Women are vindictive.....:oldrazz:.....but seriously, she seems to me the type that truly believes she is the right candidate for the party and if things don't go her way, shes' willing to destroy everything to spite Obama

I hope not. While I was certainly wondering as much a few weeks ago, she's come a long way since last week. She still comes off like a sore loser, but she seems to at the very least not be so intent on completely destroying Obama's chances.

[souvlaki]

James Carville, probably Hillary's most outspoken supporter had this to say:

"I think it's likely Obama is the nominee, but not certain," said Carville, the Democratic strategist who worked for Clinton in the 1992 campaign and is close to the couple. "I would have preferred another result, but I'm going to be for him."

"Everybody is going to be with Obama," he added, referring to Clinton staff and supporters. "I have an undated check written out for Obama. I'll send it when this is over."


Not that this necessarily proves anything, but it does confirm my suspicions that the Clinton campaign is no longer on a kamakaze mission.

[The Senator]

That's a bit ridiculous Jman.

It may sound ridiculous, but I wouldn't put it past her at this point. Every day she stays in this is another day where she gets to keep Obama from winning the nomination, every remark she makes is just another remark against him... I wouldn't be surprised if she says "well I think McCain would be a better president." She's desperate to keep him from winning the nomination, and she probably wouldn't be opposed to Obama's loss in the general election for political purposes.

Not a chance in hell. If she were to endorse McCain you would see the entire Democratic Party completely turn on her, and her political career would be over.

But 33% of her supporters say they won't vote for Obama if he becomes the nominee. If she came out and endorsed McCain, don't you think she'd be able to convince many of her supporters to flock to him? I don't think she will endorse McCain, but it would be her best chance to kill Obama.

Hell, I wouldn't be suprised to see her retire come 2012 (which is when her senate term is up, I believe). All Senate ever was to her was a spring board for the presidency. If the presidency goes out of her grasp, why stick around in the Senate?

That's what I think will happen. She'll make one last run for the Presidency in 2012 if Obama loses the election, abandoning her Senate seat in the process. If she doesn't win then, then her career will be officially over. I don't see her running for re-election, but if she did run, she would win hands down. The New York Republicans can never find a good enough candidate to run against the Democrats anyway.

[Marx]

It may sound ridiculous, but I wouldn't put it past her at this point. Every day she stays in this is another day where she gets to keep Obama from winning the nomination, every remark she makes is just another remark against him... I wouldn't be surprised if she says "well I think McCain would be a better president." She's desperate to keep him from winning the nomination, and she probably wouldn't be opposed to Obama's loss in the general election for political purposes.


At this point, there is only a couple of weeks left in the entire contest. Why not let the rest of the states weigh in Jman?

[souvlaki]

It may sound ridiculous, but I wouldn't put it past her at this point. Every day she stays in this is another day where she gets to keep Obama from winning the nomination, every remark she makes is just another remark against him... I wouldn't be surprised if she says "well I think McCain would be a better president." She's desperate to keep him from winning the nomination, and she probably wouldn't be opposed to Obama's loss in the general election for political purposes.

To be fair, at least temporarily it's in Obama's best interests for her to stay in it at least through next Tuesday. Tonight would have been pretty damn embarrassing if she had already withdrawn. A few weeks ago I would have completely agreed with you, and I still think she thinks she can win this. She's still making the occasional ridiculous statement here and there but she's not outright attacking Obama like she was a week ago which leads me to believe she will eventually support him. Not all of her supporters will probably do the same, but at the very least I think she will support him eventually. It's political suicide for her not to, and at this point it's probably the only thing that would save her from having half the Democratic Party completely hate her guts.

[souvlaki]

Wow, I just realized something. I am agreeing with the Marx. Jman and I are still arguing, but for once I am actually the one defending Clinton. Did I miss the memo, or are we on Bizarro Superhero Hype right now?

[Marx]

Wow, I just realized something. I am agreeing with the Marx. Jman and I are still arguing, but for once I am actually the one defending Clinton. Did I miss the memo, or are we on Bizarro Superhero Hype right now?

I'm just saying that at this point in the game, why not see it through to the finish?






(See Souv, we can agree on things :cwink:)

[The Senator]

At this point, there is only a couple of weeks left in the entire contest. Why not let the rest of the states weigh in Jman?

Because it's mathematically impossible for her to win at this point? Because every time she slams Obama, she finds herself in worse of a position than she once was? Because any effort to move forward looks like a total act of desperation? There are plenty of reasons why she should drop out. If she had a chance, fine, but there's no conceivable way for her to win this nomination.

[BlackLantern]

I still maintain Hilary yearns for dark meat.....she lusts for Obama but cannot have him....she will boil his bunny if needs be

[Marx]

Because it's mathematically impossible for her to win at this point? Because every time she slams Obama, she finds herself in worse of a position than she once was? Because any effort to move forward looks like a total act of desperation? There are plenty of reasons why she should drop out. If she had a chance, fine, but there's no conceivable way for her to win this nomination.

That's beside the point now. There are only a handful of contests left, let them finish them. It's gone on this long, a couple more weeks won't hurt. I don't think she will go negative, what would be the point? She risks damaging herself by doing that.

[souvlaki]

Because it's mathematically impossible for her to win at this point? Because every time she slams Obama, she finds herself in worse of a position than she once was? Because any effort to move forward looks like a total act of desperation? There are plenty of reasons why she should drop out. If she had a chance, fine, but there's no conceivable way for her to win this nomination.

I agree with you on this. But I still think it has more to do with her own delusions that she can still win. I get the impression she doesn't want Obama to win, but endorsing McCain would completely destroy her own political ambitions. If this is about 2012, it would be in her best interest to endorse Obama. And if she is out to destroy the Democratic Party, and refuses to give up on her Presidential ambitions I think it would make much more sense from her warped point of view to run as an independent in 2008. Endorsing McCain does her absolutely no favors whatsoever, other than completely alienate everyone other than her most devoted followers. Granted, running as an independent might do that as well, but at least it makes more sense from her point of view.

[souvlaki]

I'm just saying that at this point in the game, why not see it through to the finish?






(See Souv, we can agree on things :cwink:)

Well, I kind of agree, but moreso just from the point of view that it really makes no difference if she stays in anymore, unless she decides to go negative again. The media is pretty much ignoring her now anyhow. If she wants to stay in it another couple weeks because she is being delusional and actually thinks she's got a shot, so be it. It's not really going to do her any favors at this point, it just makes her look desperate, and her campaign is just going to collect more and more debt. Plus, it saves Obama the embarrassment of losing big in W. Virginia and Kentucky against noone. But you better believe the second she starts attacking Obama with the kitchen sink approach again I will be the first one to call for her to get out of the race because at this point it would just be sabotaging the Democratic Party out of bitterness.

[Marx]

Well, I kind of agree, but moreso just from the point of view that it really makes no difference if she stays in anymore, unless she decides to go negative again. The media is pretty much ignoring her now anyhow. If she wants to stay in it another couple weeks because she is being delusional and actually thinks she's got a shot, so be it. It's not really going to do her any favors at this point, it just makes her look desperate, and her campaign is just going to collect more and more debt. Plus, it saves Obama the embarrassment of losing big in W. Virginia and Kentucky against noone. But you better believe the second she starts attacking Obama with the kitchen sink approach again I will be the first one to call for her to get out of the race because at this point it would just be sabotaging the Democratic Party out of bitterness.

If she goes negative again, then I would say it's time to hang it up.

[souvlaki]

If she goes negative again, then I would say it's time to hang it up.

Yeah, exactly. Clinton has pissed me off quite a bit during this election, but at least before last Tuesday the kitchen sink approach served a purpose for her. If she did it now, it would just expose her as being what I already suspected: a selfish politician that cares more about her own political ambitions than the good of the country. I'd really like her to prove me wrong on this for once.

[Marx]

Yeah, exactly. Clinton has pissed me off quite a bit during this election, but at least before last Tuesday the kitchen sink approach served a purpose for her. If she did it now, it would just expose her as being what I already suspected: a selfish politician that cares more about her own political ambitions than the good of the country. I'd really like her to prove me wrong on this for once.

"The Kitchen Sink" worked well for her. But this race is nearing the end, and negativity by either candidate really serves no purpose.

[souvlaki]

"The Kitchen Sink" worked well for her.

I disagree... it raised his negatives, but it raised her negatives as well. Really, all it did was just lower the chances that either could win in November.

[Marx]

From CNN Senior Political Analyst Bill Schneider (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/tag/cnn-senior-political-analyst-bill-schneider/)

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/images/05/13/art.west.va.gi.jpg
(CNN) — West Virginia exit polls appear to show the prolonged Democratic presidential race has produced a clear rift in the party, at least for now.
We asked supporters of both candidates whether they would be satisfied if the other candidate won the nomination. A large majority of both candidates' supporters said they would not: only 38 percent of Obama supporters said they would be satisfied if Clinton won, and only 25 percent of Clinton backers said they'd be satisfied if Barack Obama was the nominee.
Translation: There's a lot of reconciliation to be taken care of.


I would say that's putting it mildly.


http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/05/13/schneider-a-clear-rift-in-the-party-exists/

[Darkdd]

http://straightfromthea.com/2008/05/13/wtf-pic-of-the-day-racist-obama-t-shirts-sold-in-georgia-bar/

Really now...

[souvlaki]

From CNN Senior Political Analyst Bill Schneider (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/tag/cnn-senior-political-analyst-bill-schneider/)

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/images/05/13/art.west.va.gi.jpg
(CNN) — West Virginia exit polls appear to show the prolonged Democratic presidential race has produced a clear rift in the party, at least for now.
We asked supporters of both candidates whether they would be satisfied if the other candidate won the nomination. A large majority of both candidates' supporters said they would not: only 38 percent of Obama supporters said they would be satisfied if Clinton won, and only 25 percent of Clinton backers said they'd be satisfied if Barack Obama was the nominee.
Translation: There's a lot of reconciliation to be taken care of.


I would say that's putting it mildly.


http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/05/13/schneider-a-clear-rift-in-the-party-exists/

I would say Obama's chances of carrying West Virginia are pretty slim at this point anyhow.

[Marx]

I would say Obama's chances of carrying West Virginia are pretty slim at this point anyhow.

I would agree. But it still speaks to the larger problem that Obama has with blue-collar workers. He might want to figure out how to fix it if he wants to win a general election. Contrary to what Donna Brazzille thinks, this voting bloc is not expendable.

[The Senator]

I would agree. But it still speaks to the larger problem that Obama has with blue-collar workers. He might want to figure out how to fix it if he wants to win a general election. Contrary to what Donna Bazille thinks, this voting bloc is not expendable.

Obama should be fine as long as he takes a few shots of whiskey, talks about his days as a gunsmith and tells voters he grew up in their state...

[souvlaki]

I would agree. But it still speaks to the larger problem that Obama has with blue-collar workers. He might want to figure out how to fix it if he wants to win a general election. Contrary to what Donna Bazille thinks, this voting bloc is not expendable.

He's going to try and make inroads with blue collar workers during the general election. He did fine with that voting bloc earlier in the race. Given that a decent majority of them are traditional democrats, I think he'll be fine once Hillary is no longer trying to corner that market by riding in the back of pickup trucks and taking shots of Jim Beam.

[Marx]

Obama should be fine as long as he takes a few shots of whiskey, talks about his days as a gunsmith and tells voters he grew up in their state...

He's going to try and make inroads with blue collar workers during the general election. He did fine with that voting bloc earlier in the race. Given that a decent majority of them are traditional democrats, I think he'll be fine once Hillary is no longer trying to corner that market by riding in the back of pickup trucks and taking shots of Jim Beam.

We'll see.

[The Senator]

I was simply making a joke... Obviously this is a problem for him, but if Hillary Clinton was able to convince voters that she was a gunslingin' alcoholic truck driver with a GED, I'm sure Obama can do the same as long as he's willing to play politics...

[souvlaki]

We'll see.

Well, if we were talking about swing voters I'd say there is reason for concern. But a decent majority of those people have been voting Democrat for years. Like I said, he was doing fine with that demographic before Hillary started painting him as an elitist. This is a guy who was raised by a single mother in a middle-class household, and got through college with student loans and scholarships. Once those people realize he's not quite the elitist Clinton made him out to be, he'll at the very least pick up a decent portion of those votes. Just wait a few months before jumping to any conclusions and assuming he's lost that demographic for good.

[The Senator]

http://straightfromthea.com/2008/05/13/wtf-pic-of-the-day-racist-obama-t-shirts-sold-in-georgia-bar/

Really now...

I'm sure that's not racist. The t-shirt designer was simply highlighting the policy differences between Obama and Clinton :o

[Marx]

I was simply making a joke... Obviously this is a problem for him, but if Hillary Clinton was able to convince voters that she was a gunslingin' alcoholic truck driver with a GED, I'm sure Obama can do the same as long as he's willing to play politics...

I know you were joking. You have to admit though, Obama is already very good at playing politics.

Well, if we were talking about swing voters I'd say there is reason for concern. But a decent majority of those people have been voting Democrat for years. Like I said, he was doing fine with that demographic before Hillary started painting him as an elitist. This is a guy who was raised by a single mother in a middle-class household, and got through college with student loans and scholarships. Once those people realize he's not quite the elitist Clinton made him out to be, he'll at the very least pick up a decent portion of those votes. Just wait a few months before jumping to any conclusions and assuming he's lost that demographic for good.

I'm trying to reserve judgement, but the Democratic Primary suggests that he does have a problem to address.

[The Senator]

I know you were joking. You have to admit though, Obama is already very good at playing politics.

He's not good enough, unfortunately. Hillary is the master-- If she can convince folks that she's not an elitist, why, that's some master politicking right there.

Maybe she should be the running mate...

[souvlaki]

I'm trying to reserve judgement, but the Democratic Primary suggests that he does have a problem to address.

And he has six months to address that problem.

[souvlaki]

Poor kid is about to learn an important life lesson about losing:


Hillary Clinton or video games? One 11-year-old's choice

As 11-year-old Dalton Hatfield set about selling his earthly possessions, his parents thought he was doing his part to help pay for a family vacation.

Bill Clinton has been campaigning throughout small towns in West Virginia on behalf of his wife Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton and along the way he accepted a campaign contribution from 11-year-old Dalton Hatfield Instead, he was doing his part to help his favored presidential candidate, Hillary Clinton. And on Friday, the young fellow made news when he presented a stunned Bill Clinton with a check for $440.

[rdh007]

A McCoy would never do that.

[Comicfilmer]

Poor kid is about to learn an important life lesson about losing:


Hillary Clinton or video games? One 11-year-old's choice

As 11-year-old Dalton Hatfield set about selling his earthly possessions, his parents thought he was doing his part to help pay for a family vacation.

Bill Clinton has been campaigning throughout small towns in West Virginia on behalf of his wife Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton and along the way he accepted a campaign contribution from 11-year-old Dalton Hatfield Instead, he was doing his part to help his favored presidential candidate, Hillary Clinton. And on Friday, the young fellow made news when he presented a stunned Bill Clinton with a check for $440.

Wow...what a dumb kid.

[Matt]

I was simply making a joke... Obviously this is a problem for him, but if Hillary Clinton was able to convince voters that she was a gunslingin' alcoholic truck driver with a GED, I'm sure Obama can do the same as long as he's willing to play politics...

I think you're over-estimating the importance the whiskey shots while looking for the reason why Hillary Clinton won with these voters. It had nothing to do with the story about hunting or whisky shots but more to do with who her husband is. Plain and simple. These people are voting with their wallets. The economy was good under Bill Clinton, gas was cheap, there were jobs, so they simply assume it will be that way again under Hillary Clinton. Being as Obama was not married to a man who was incredibly popular with blue collar voters (despite his screwing them over with NAFTA, go figure...) he won't have such an easy time convincing them. Especially when he is up against Mr. All American War Hero.

[The Lizard]

Oh boy, another black eye for Georgia, thanks to stupid rednecks...

Cobb County Bar Protested for "Racist" Obama T-shirts (http://www.wsbtv.com/news/16255301/detail.html?rss=atl&psp=news)

http://www.wsbtv.com/2008/0513/16255326.jpg
A racist swipe at Obama? Yup, looks that way to me.

BTW, Marietta is just northwest of Atlanta, so it's not like this is some little hick town out in the boonies of Georgia. Although it's a Republican town, I doubt that the residents will put up with this.

[terry78]

Oh boy, another black eye for Georgia, thanks to stupid rednecks...

Cobb County Bar Protested for "Racist" Obama T-shirts (http://www.wsbtv.com/news/16255301/detail.html?rss=atl&psp=news)

http://www.wsbtv.com/2008/0513/16255326.jpg
A racist swipe at Obama? Yup, looks that way to me.

BTW, Marietta is just northwest of Atlanta, so it's not like this is some little hick town out in the boonies of Georgia. Although it's a Republican town, I doubt that the residents will put up with this.


I'm sure someone will come with, "oh, it was just a parody because he has big ears, like Curious George. Lighten up." As Lucious Fox said in BB, "don't think of me as an idiot."

[Matt]

The argument can be made that it is because he is young, naive, and really has no business being Presidennt just yet...but yeah, there are other ways to get that message across. There's really only one way to describe that shirt:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f312/Tonito44/ThatsRacist.gif

[Marx]

He's not good enough, unfortunately. Hillary is the master-- If she can convince folks that she's not an elitist, why, that's some master politicking right there.

Maybe she should be the running mate...

Hillary may be the master, but Obama is more than capable of playing the game.

[Varient]

Oh boy, another black eye for Georgia, thanks to stupid rednecks...

Cobb County Bar Protested for "Racist" Obama T-shirts (http://www.wsbtv.com/news/16255301/detail.html?rss=atl&psp=news)

http://www.wsbtv.com/2008/0513/16255326.jpg
A racist swipe at Obama? Yup, looks that way to me.

BTW, Marietta is just northwest of Atlanta, so it's not like this is some little hick town out in the boonies of Georgia. Although it's a Republican town, I doubt that the residents will put up with this.

SIGH.

[jaguarr]

Poor kid is about to learn an important life lesson about losing:


Hillary Clinton or video games? One 11-year-old's choice

As 11-year-old Dalton Hatfield set about selling his earthly possessions, his parents thought he was doing his part to help pay for a family vacation.

Bill Clinton has been campaigning throughout small towns in West Virginia on behalf of his wife Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton and along the way he accepted a campaign contribution from 11-year-old Dalton Hatfield Instead, he was doing his part to help his favored presidential candidate, Hillary Clinton. And on Friday, the young fellow made news when he presented a stunned Bill Clinton with a check for $440.

"Hillary and Bill Clinton: Taking Money From Your Kids!"

jag

[jaguarr]

Oh boy, another black eye for Georgia, thanks to stupid rednecks...

Cobb County Bar Protested for "Racist" Obama T-shirts (http://www.wsbtv.com/news/16255301/detail.html?rss=atl&psp=news)

http://www.wsbtv.com/2008/0513/16255326.jpg
A racist swipe at Obama? Yup, looks that way to me.

BTW, Marietta is just northwest of Atlanta, so it's not like this is some little hick town out in the boonies of Georgia. Although it's a Republican town, I doubt that the residents will put up with this.

The hell is wrong with ya'll down there? :huh:

jag

[moraldeficiency]

The hell is wrong with ya'll down there? :huh:

jag

Yeah, I mean who would have thought a place like Georgia still harbors racism?

[terry78]

Considering they're so close to Atlanta, the black mecca, you'd think otherwise. But I know many large metropolitan cities that are diverse as hell, yet the surrounding areas right next to them are as backwards as all get out.

[jaguarr]

Yeah, I mean who would have thought a place like Georgia still harbors racism?

Oh, I have low expecatations for the southern states already. It still manages to surprise me at least a little bit when crap like this happens in this day and age, though. Between this and the substitute teacher getting fired for being a "wizard" after performing a 30-second disappearing toothpick sleight of hand magic trick for one of his classes in Florida, I think it'll be a good long while before I head South again. The stupidity there seems to be growing.

jag

[The Lizard]

Oh, I have low expecatations for the southern states already. It still manages to surprise me at least a little bit when crap like this happens in this day and age, though. Between this and the substitute teacher getting fired for being a "wizard" after performing a 30-second disappearing toothpick sleight of hand magic trick for one of his classes in Florida, I think it'll be a good long while before I head South again. The stupidity there seems to be growing.

jag

A. There are stupid, racist people everywhere, even in the "enlightened" blue states, believe it or not.

B. Florida doesn't really count as part of the "south" (even though the north Florida panhandle is much like south Georgia in places). Most of Florida is made up of transplanted northerners, retirees and Hispanic immigrants. I grew up in Gulf-coast Florida, and there was never any sense of identification with Southern pride or culture there.

C. Not visiting an area because of the occasional headline-grabbing news report about the activities of a few psycho morons doesn't really make sense to me. By that reasoning, no one would want to go to London, Los Angeles or Malaysia either.

[Darthphere]

Oh boy, another black eye for Georgia, thanks to stupid rednecks...

Cobb County Bar Protested for "Racist" Obama T-shirts (http://www.wsbtv.com/news/16255301/detail.html?rss=atl&psp=news)

http://www.wsbtv.com/2008/0513/16255326.jpg
A racist swipe at Obama? Yup, looks that way to me.

BTW, Marietta is just northwest of Atlanta, so it's not like this is some little hick town out in the boonies of Georgia. Although it's a Republican town, I doubt that the residents will put up with this.

Where can I buy that shirt?:wow::ninja:

[jaguarr]

A. There are stupid, racist people everywhere, even in the "enlightened" blue states, believe it or not.

Totally agree. It's absolutely true. But there are different flavors of stupidity and I don't like your flavor, sir.


B. Florida doesn't really count as part of the "south" (even though the north Florida panhandle is much like south Georgia in places). Most of Florida is made up of transplanted northerners, retirees and Hispanic immigrants. I grew up in Gulf-coast Florida, and there was never any sense of identification with Southern pride or culture there.

It's in the South. I have a map.


C. Not visiting an area because of the occasional headline-grabbing news report about the activities of a few psycho morons doesn't really make sense to me. By that reasoning, no one would want to go to London, Los Angeles or Malaysia either.

It was all meant in jest, but thanks for taking it all so seriously Mr. Sensitive Southerner. ;)

jag

[The Lizard]

It was all meant in jest, but thanks for taking it all so seriously Mr. Sensitive Southerner. ;)

jag

I told you -- I'm originally from Florida - we don't count as southerners. :oldrazz:

I was taught in school that during the Civil War the North was the good guys and the South was the bad guys.

But now that I live in Georgia, I've gotta head into town and buy me a new belt buckle...YEEE-HAW!

http://www.custom-wheels-n-rims.com/dukes/general-lee1.jpg

[jaguarr]

If your new belt buckle can't double as a dinner plate, it's not big enough. Just a buyer's guide rule of thumb for you. :up:

jag

[The Senator]

Didn't Florida secede from the Union? I thought that automatically made the state a part of the South...

[jaguarr]

So, what we have established here today is that Floridans are just self-loathing Southerners with massive guilt problems?

jag

[terry78]

Miami's slogan - We're not affiliated with the rest of this state.

[moraldeficiency]

So, what we have established here today is that Floridans are just self-loathing Southerners with massive guilt problems?

jag

uh, some of us are good old fashioned drunks that like to hang out at the beach.

[jaguarr]

uh, some of us are good old fashioned drunks that like to hang out at the beach.

And THAT I can understand. :up:

jag

[jaguarr]

Miami's slogan - We're not affiliated with the rest of this state.

Orlando's slogan - "We're whatever you want us to be. Just give your money to the mouse with the big ears."

jag

[Varient]

damn.

[moraldeficiency]

Cobb County Bar Protested for "Racist" Obama T-shirts (http://www.wsbtv.com/news/16255301/detail.html?rss=atl&psp=news)

http://www.wsbtv.com/2008/0513/16255326.jpg


And now Marietta's slogan: "giving racist overtones to beloved childhood classics while setting back the cause of equal rights."

It's really too stupid to take this t-shirt seriously as racism but I am pissed they pulled curious george into this, that's just too far.

[Excel]

http://www.wsbtv.com/2008/0513/16255326.jpg


http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f312/Tonito44/ThatsRacist.gif

:lmao:

[The Senator]

So... who does everyone think Obama should pick as his VP?

[RockSP]

The kid from the "THAT'S RACIST!" gif.

[moraldeficiency]

The kid from the "THAT'S RACIST!" gif.

I'm going to feel really sorry for what that kid's life is going to be like in five years when people are still making him say that.

[Excel]

So... who does everyone think Obama should pick as his VP?

Brown.

Obama-Brown sounds great together too.

[terry78]

So... who does everyone think Obama should pick as his VP?

The Man in the Yellow Hat.

[StorminNorman]

Who authorized this brochure for Obama?

http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/375071.aspx

No matter your thoughts of the Rev. Wright issue, one has to agree that Obama has to put as much distance between him and the racist pastor as possible - I don't think a picture of Obama in the pulpit is the best way to do this.

This is simple political stupidity at its best.

http://drudgereport.com/obama.jpg

[Marx]

Who authorized this brochure for Obama?

http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/375071.aspx

No matter your thoughts of the Rev. Wright issue, one has to agree that Obama has to put as much distance between him and the racist pastor as possible - I don't think a picture of Obama in the pulpit is the best way to do this.

This is simple political stupidity at its best.

http://drudgereport.com/obama.jpg

That's not a very intelligent decision. Is this brochure for Kentucky? I see at the bottom it is ky.barackobama.com...disturbing.

[terry78]

I guess they're trying their best to focus on the Bible Belt types, but religion has really screwed up this candidacy race.

[The Senator]

That's not a very intelligent decision. Is this brochure for Kentucky? I see at the bottom it is ky.barackobama.com...disturbing.

It's almost as disturbing as Hillary Clinton chugging whiskey and pretending to know how to pump gas.

[The Senator]

Brown.

Obama-Brown sounds great together too.

While Brown is a great senator, I wonder what he would bring to the ticket which would help Obama appeal to rural, blue collar voters. He certainly opposes NAFTA, but other than that, I wonder if he would have enough of a presence to actually help Obama in the general election.

[StorminNorman]

I guess they're trying their best to focus on the Bible Belt types, but religion has really screwed up this candidacy race.

I understand what they are trying to target - they are just attempting it with easily one of the dumbest, hurtful political brochures I have ever seen.

Political brochures are almost useless in a campaign, in almost all cases people look at them and throw them away. The key is utilizing that first impression - Obama in a pulpit after the universally known Wright controversy does nothing positive for the campaign.

[Marx]

It's almost as disturbing as Hillary Clinton chugging whiskey and pretending to know how to pump gas.

I think it's a little more disturbing than that Jman. We don't need another President who acts as though they are "preaching behind a pulpit" while sitting in the Oval office.

[StorminNorman]

While Brown is a great senator, I wonder what he would bring to the ticket which would help Obama appeal to rural, blue collar voters. He certainly opposes NAFTA, but other than that, I wonder if he would have enough of a presence to actually help Obama in the general election.

Brown's biggest gift to Obama as a VP is Ohio.

[Marx]

Brown's biggest gift to Obama as a VP is Ohio.

We rather like Sherrod and Governor Strickland. :yay:

[Varient]

The Man in the Yellow Hat.

Oh,..

That was POOR.


made me snicker - But it was still poor,.... Put out your hand so sumbody can smack it.

[Doomed_hero]

In most the talks and writings on Obama's V.P Webb comes out as number one in most cases. However Webb said he was not intrested at this time when many senators where asked if they had been approached or would take it.

[The Senator]

I think it's a little more disturbing than that Jman. We don't need another President who acts as though they are "preaching behind a pulpit" while sitting in the Oval office.

So, let me get this straight:

You're comparing Obama to Bush? Why is that-- because Obama is trying to portray himself as a faithful candidate?

I mean, isn't he getting torn apart for failing to appeal to rural, blue-collar voters? He is essentially reaching out to these voters through faith, which people in the Bible Belt hold near and dear to the hearts. Not to mention, a good chunk of these voters believe Obama is a Muslim, so having him stand in front of a cross is a good way to turn some of those thoughts around.

What, do you think he's moronic enough to paint himself as a "messiah?"

If we want to draw comparisons between Bush and the Democrats, you need not look any further than Clinton. She's lied her way through the campaign, been blindsided by bull **** economic policies such as the 'gas tax holiday,' and she's kicking back the whiskey like it's water. If anything, I'd be more worried about all of her flaws combined than Obama's attempt to reach out to Bible Belt voters after he's been slammed for not doing so in the first place.

[Doomed_hero]

I have heard alot of people try to make the comparison of Obama to Bush and I just don't get it. He is smarter and more thought out as well as not trying to win by dividing the nation with fear.

I have seen Clinton however go back on almost everything she says, much as Bush does and also try to act like"one of the guys", which is why Bush won in 2004 in alot of ways.

I have plenty of friends I could sit and have a beer with, tha does not mean I want them anywhere near the Presidency.

[The Senator]

Brown's biggest gift to Obama as a VP is Ohio.

But I wonder if Brown would actually win Obama the state? Brown's approval ratings are so-so, last I knew. Edwards was very popular in North Carolina but he still couldn't win the state for Kerry.

[Marx]

So, let me get this straight:

You're comparing Obama to Bush? Why is that-- because Obama is trying to portray himself as a faithful candidate?


He's pandering. You want to talk continuously about Hillary throwing back whiskey shots? This is no different.


I mean, isn't he getting torn apart for failing to appeal to rural, blue-collar voters? He is essentially reaching out to these voters through faith, which people in the Bible Belt hold near and dear to the hearts. Not to mention, a good chunk of these voters believe Obama is a Muslim, so having him stand in front of a cross is a good way to turn some of those thoughts around.


Or it could be seen as incredibly transparent. (Which it is.)


What, do you think he's moronic enough to paint himself as a "messiah?"


He doesn't really need to try and further invoke those kinds of comments, does he? The media is painting him as if he were a god.


If we want to draw comparisons between Bush and the Democrats, you need not look any further than Clinton. She's lied her way through the campaign, been blindsided by bull **** economic policies such as the 'gas tax holiday,' and she's kicking back the whiskey like it's water. If anything, I'd be more worried about all of her flaws combined than Obama's attempt to reach out to Bible Belt voters after he's been slammed for not doing so in the first place.

Obama is no saint either Jman. Just because he is "such an eloquent speaker" and is "above it all" does not erase the fact that he is just as cunning and manipulative as any other politican.

[The Senator]

In most the talks and writings on Obama's V.P Webb comes out as number one in most cases. However Webb said he was not intrested at this time when many senators where asked if they had been approached or would take it.

I don't see Webb as a viable option at this point. I think he's an excellent Senator, and I think he knows what he's talking about, but he served less than a year as Reagan's Navy Secretary and less than a year and a half in the senate. Not to mention he has a lot of problems in his personal life which were constantly attacked by George Allen during the 2006 election. If the Republicans don't attack Webb on his lack of experience, they'll trash his personal life, and that will not help Obama's chances of winning the Presidency.

We rather like Sherrod and Governor Strickland. :yay:

Strickland doesn't want it, plus he's too old.

[moraldeficiency]

Just because he is "such an eloquent speaker" and is "above it all" does not erase the fact that he is just as cunning and manipulative as any other politican.

Do you have something to back this up or is this just your opinion?

[StorminNorman]

Do you have something to back this up or is this just your opinion?

Reality?

[Marx]

Do you have something to back this up or is this just your opinion?

For fear of sounding like a broken record...

He takes lobbyist money, though he claims otherwise.

He deliberately distorted Clinton's record here in Ohio with mailers and such.

He votes "present" when difficult issues come up in the Senate instead of actually taking a stand one way or the other.

He claimed that he never heard Rev. Wright make those hateful sermons when the scandal first broke. Two days later, he changed his position and said "Yeah, I've heard them but I wasn't there." Then he holds a speech to address the situation and race and completely ignored the situation. Saying only that he could "no longer distance himself from Wright than his grandmother." Then he holds another speech finally "condemning" the man only after it was hurting him in the polls.

Would you like me to continue?

[moraldeficiency]

Yes, actually.

[The Senator]

He's pandering...playing politics.

Which is what every politician does. Every person running for office panders to their audience. If you're running for a statewide office in Iowa, you stand next to a tractor in a corn field and talk about how you're going to help farmers during next year's harvest. If you're running for a statewide office in Michigan, you make a speech near an auto plant and tell voters that you're with them and that you are going to do all you can to fix the auto industry in that state. And if you're running for President and competing in a Bible Belt state like Kentucky, you get up in front of a cross and praise Jesus up and down the aisle until you've convinced everyone that Christ is your savior and the Bible is your favorite book.

It gets difficult to understand why many people are quick to bash him for failing to reach out to some of these voters, yet when he makes an effort, people are quick to slam him for that effort as well. This man certainly isn't the best candidate of the bunch, and he has his problems, but some times it seems as though many people are just attacking him for the sake of attacking him. And over a bull **** pamphlet, none the less. Yet the same people haven't even criticized the type of shenanigans Hillary Clinton has pulled, nor are they willing to question her motives.

They all pander, that's their ****ing job. They pander until they get enough votes to win.


Or it could be seen as incredibly transparent. (Which it is.)

I don't see how that describes what I wrote in that paragraph. That all ties into the point-- He's a politician! He's suppose to pander to certain audiences!

On top of that, he has to convince some of the ignoramuses who say things like "I ain't eva votin' for a colored feller" or "Ain't that man a Muslim?" that he isn't any of those things, that beyond the silly name and wacky skin color, he is an American Christian running to serve all Americans.

The pundits and the experts have torn him apart for not pandering to these people. So then he goes out and panders to these folks, and what happens? He's attacked again for doing the same damn thing.


I doesn't really need to try and further invoke those kinds of comments, does he? The media painting him as if he were a god.

Yawn. That argument got old when the media spent over a month attacking him for his pastor.


Obama is no saint either Jman. Just because he is "such an eloquent speaker" and is "above it all" does not erase the fact that he is just as cunning and manipulative as any other politican.

I do not base my decision to defend this man on his speaking abilities, nor am I basing that decision on the semantics the media played at the beginning of this contest. Also, I'm not denying that he's not like any other politician, that's my whole damn point. But I find it interesting that whenever he plays politics, he's the bad guy, while Hillary Clinton can do the exact same thing and get away with it. You haven't once criticized her for her semantics-- I guess that means she's more believable as a gun-loving, whiskey-sipping truck drivin' gal? :huh:

Double standards exist on both sides of the Democratic race, and as a former Clinton supporter who was able to see through her bull ****, it kind of offends me when other folks who are "in the middle" and "non-biased" can't see the sort of crap she's been pulling, and instead pull the same argument out of their ass to attack Obama again and again for doing what everyone wants him to do in the first place.

[RockSP]

Then he holds a speech to address the situation and race and completely ignored the situation.

Was his speech supposed to "cure" racism or something?

[Marx]

I do not base my decision to defend this man on his speaking abilities, nor am I basing that decision on the semantics the media played at the beginning of this contest. Also, I'm not denying that he's not like any other politician, that's my whole damn point. But I find it interesting that whenever he plays politics, he's the bad guy, while Hillary Clinton can do the exact same thing and get away with it. You haven't once criticized her for her semantics-- I guess that means she's more believable as a gun-loving, whiskey-sipping truck drivin' gal? :huh:

Double standards exist on both sides of the Democratic race, and as a former Clinton supporter who was able to see through her bull ****, it kind of offends me when other folks who are "in the middle" and "non-biased" can't see the sort of crap she's been pulling, and instead pull the same argument out of their ass to attack Obama again and again for doing what everyone wants him to do in the first place.

I have criticized her many times. I still can't believe that she reduced herself to slinging back whiskey shots, talking of her praise for guns and whatnot. Trust me, I have problems with that. But honestly, I can tolerate her more than I can Obama. She has never one time said that she was above any of these tactics. Obama, on the other hand, has painted himself into quite a corner. A ridiculous corner. A corner that basically makes him a hypocrite for anything that he does. Not exactly a position I would enjoy being in.

Was his speech supposed to "cure" racism or something?

His original speech was supposed to address Wright and the issue of race. He all but ignored Wright. I have never said that it was supposed to cure racism.

[StorminNorman]

Was his speech supposed to "cure" racism or something?

The speech wasn't suppose to be about "racism", it was suppose to be about Wright and his connection to him.

Marx is hitting at the very reason why Obama is very beatable right now in the General Election, something I thought impossible months ago, he has lost his shine.

Obama could connect with Independents and Republicans before recently NOT because of his policies - but because of his presence. He was more than JUST some politician - he was a symbol.

Like JFK and Reagan before him, he was a symbol for something more. With JFK it was the future and the hope and optimism and possibilities of tomorrow. With Reagan it was patriotism, faith and the belief in a strong America. With Obama it was the belief that the Washington can be infected with a youthful energy that would clean and fix all the problem we have had with scandals and petty arguments.

By becoming a typical politician (which he has become) he has lost that edge. He has lost that shine. He, I believe, has lost that symbol status.

[The Senator]

He takes lobbyist money, though he claims otherwise.

That makes him a hypocrite. Again, like every other politician.


He deliberately distorted Clinton's record here in Ohio with mailers and such.

And Clinton sent out mailers in New Hampshire and South Carolina as well.


He votes "present" when difficult issues come up in the Senate instead of actually taking a stand one way or the other.

That was in the Illinois State Senate, but I agree, we have to judge his record in both legislative bodies considering he's acting as if his state senate record is as important as his U.S. Senate record.


He claimed that he never heard Rev. Wright make those hateful sermons when the scandal first broke. Two days later, he changed his position and said "Yeah, I've heard them but I wasn't there." Then he holds a speech to address the situation and race and completely ignored the situation. Saying only that he could "no longer distance himself from Wright than his grandmother." Then he holds another speech finally "condemning" the man only after it was hurting him in the polls.

Yeah, again, Obama did what everyone wanted him to do. Pundits, critics, experts, etc. all wanted him to drop any affiliation he had with the man, and Obama agreed to do so. You and many others here (myself included) complained for weeks on end that Obama needed to condemn Wright, that he needed to address this man's hateful comments outright instead of turning it into a lecture on race relations in the United States. Well, he did condemn Wright, he did condemn his words, and he has since moved on. Yet... everyone is still making this an issue. They're still saying things like "he didn't condemn him soon enough!" or "he should have done it 20 years ago!"

Those are bull **** arguments. And for someone like you, Marx, to say that the Democratic Party needs to be united in the fall yet you turn around and continue to peel the scab back on a wound which has almost healed over makes me question where you really stand in this election. The Democrats don't need to worry about McCain in the fall, they need to worry about people within their own party who are willing to throw anything and everything against the wall to tarnish Obama's image... even after he does what his critics want him to do...

[Marx]

That makes him a hypocrite. Again, like every other politician.


Yet he pretends as those he isn't "like every other politician."


And Clinton sent out mailers in New Hampshire and South Carolina as well.


Never said that she didn't. I wasn't asked about Clinton, I was asked about Obama.


That was in the Illinois State Senate, but I agree, we have to judge his record in both legislative bodies considering he's acting as if his state senate record is as important as his U.S. Senate record.


Yes we do. I agree.


Yeah, again, Obama did what everyone wanted him to do. Pundits, critics, experts, etc. all wanted him to drop any affiliation he had with the man, and Obama agreed to do so. You and many others here (myself included) complained for weeks on end that Obama needed to condemn Wright, that he needed to address this man's hateful comments outright instead of turning it into a lecture on race relations in the United States. Well, he did condemn Wright, he did condemn his words, and he has since moved on. Yet... everyone is still making this an issue. They're still saying things like "he didn't condemn him soon enough!" or "he should have done it 20 years ago!"

I get what you're saying, but he didn't do it because he wanted to. He did it because the polls told him to. Making him no different than anyone else.


Those are bull **** arguments. And for someone like you, Marx, to say that the Democratic Party needs to be united in the fall yet you turn around and continue to peel the scab back on a wound which has almost healed over makes me question where you really stand in this election. The Democrats don't need to worry about McCain in the fall, they need to worry about people within their own party who are willing to throw anything and everything against the wall to tarnish Obama's image... even after he does what his critics want him to do...

Saying that those are bull**** arguments is your view. Not mine. And yes, I very STRONGLY believe that there needs to be a united Democratic Party in the fall, I just do not believe that Obama is the one to do that.

[RockSP]

His original speech was supposed to address Wright and the issue of race. He all but ignored Wright. I have never said that it was supposed to cure racism.

The speech wasn't suppose to be about "racism", it was suppose to be about Wright and his connection to him.


He did address Wright. Maybe not to your satisfaction.

It seems he assumed people were smart enough to know that another man's views aren't his. Or that wearing a flag pin doesn't mean anything. Obviously, he was probably giving people to much credit. Now he has renounced Wright and slapped the pin back on...

[The Senator]

I have criticized her many times. I still can't believe that she reduced herself to slinging back whiskey shots, talking of her praise for guns and whatnot. Trust me, I have problems with that. But honestly, I can tolerate her more than I can Obama. She has never one time said that she was above any of these tactics. Obama, on the other hand, has painted himself into quite a corner. A ridiculous corner. A corner that basically makes him a hypocrite for anything that he does. Not exactly a position I would enjoy being in.

So again, let me get this straight:

Because Obama said he was above these tactics, that means he has to stay above the pandering and politicking?

Yet, you and others criticize him for not pandering to rural, religious and blue collar voters. You said he has to reach out to these folks if he hopes to win them in the fall.

So when he does pander, you criticize him for pandering because even though you criticized him for not pandering, he said he was above such pandering and that means he can never pander because that would make him a hypocrite? :huh:

This circular logic is giving me a headache...

[Marx]

He did address Wright. Maybe not to your satisfaction.

It seems he assumed people were smart enough to know that another man's views aren't his. Or that wearing a flag pin doesn't mean anything. Obviously, he was probably giving people to much credit. Now he has renounced Wright and slapped the pin back on...

Using gleaming words and sidestepping isn't my idea of addressing issues. If he was so intelligent, he would know that something as trivial as not wearing a flag pin would become an issue.

[StorminNorman]

He did address Wright. Maybe not to your satisfaction.

It seems he assumed people were smart enough to know that another man's views aren't his. Or that wearing a flag pin doesn't mean anything. Obviously, he was probably giving people to much credit. Now he has renounced Wright and slapped the pin back on...

Not to a lot of people's satisfaction. Not to the majorities satisfaction I would argue. But, I am not going to get into the Wright situation again.

[RockSP]

If he was so intelligent, he would know that something as trivial as not wearing a flag pin would become an issue.

The fact that it is an issue at all speaks to the lack of intelligence of some of the people in the country.

[souvlaki]

If there were morons out there that thought I was a Muslim, despite the fact that I was a Christian, I would start shoving my religious beliefs down their throats too. It's not like he's doing it just to do it. He's doing it because religion has suddenly become such an issue for his campaign that he feels like he needs to put his faith out there in the simplest terms possible for all the idiots out there that don't get it.

[Marx]

So again, let me get this straight:

Because Obama said he was above these tactics, that means he has to stay above the pandering and politicking?

Yet, you and others criticize him for not pandering to rural, religious and blue collar voters. You said he has to reach out to these folks if he hopes to win them in the fall.

So when he does pander, you criticize him for pandering because even though you criticized him for not pandering, he said he was above such pandering and that means he can never pander because that would make him a hypocrite? :huh:

This circular logic is giving me a headache...

Arguing about how Barack Obama is or isn't so great gives me a headache! My problem with him lies in the fact that he is so far from what he wants everyone to believe.

There are ways to influence people and gain their support without reducing yourself to looking like a hypocrite Jman.

[Marx]

Not to a lot of people's satisfaction. Not to the majorities satisfaction I would argue. But, I am not going to get into the Wright situation again.

I'd prefer to not get into yet another full-scale Wright argument again as well.

[souvlaki]

So again, let me get this straight:

Because Obama said he was above these tactics, that means he has to stay above the pandering and politicking?

Yet, you and others criticize him for not pandering to rural, religious and blue collar voters. You said he has to reach out to these folks if he hopes to win them in the fall.

So when he does pander, you criticize him for pandering because even though you criticized him for not pandering, he said he was above such pandering and that means he can never pander because that would make him a hypocrite? :huh:

This circular logic is giving me a headache...

He's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. Jesus, he's a politician, people. Not the freakin' pope. People need to chill out and not expect the guy to walk on water. I certainly don't, and any sane Obama supporter doesn't either.

[The Senator]

I get what you're saying, but he didn't do it because he wanted to. He did it because the polls told him to. Making him no different than anyone else.

Exactly-- the polls told him to denounce and reject Wright, which he did. Which shows that he listens to voter sentiment. I'm glad he distanced himself from Wright. He did what he needed to do at the time to draw a distinction between Wright's views and his own views. He's left the man's church, he's apparently got a new pastor... Wright is over and done with.

Obama may paint himself as better than everyone else, but doesn't every politician do that to some extent? All political candidates have some sort of arrogance about them which makes them seem better than their opponents. Clinton plays herself as an "experienced" candidate, which is really laughable considering she only has seven years in the Senate and the rest of her experience is a bunch of lies glued together with bull ****.


Saying that those are bull**** arguments is your view. Not mine. And yes, I very STRONGLY believe that there needs to be a united Democratic Party in the fall, I just do not believe that Obama is the one to do that.

I think it's a bull **** argument to keep attacking Obama for his pastor when he did what it was you wanted him to do to condemn Wright. What could he have done better-- should he have invented a time machine and traveled back in time twenty years to leave the man's church? I mean, there wasn't much more he could have done. If he was continuing to ignore Wright, then I'd agree that this is an important issue. But he listened to the concerns of many voters and did what they wanted him to do.

Now, like it or not, Obama will be the Democratic nominee, unless the Supreme Commander of the Universe changes the number line between now and the convention. It is up to him to unite this party, and I think you have to give him a chance to do that before you abandon all hope because he made you mad during the primary.

[jaguarr]

Using gleaming words and sidestepping isn't my idea of addressing issues. If he was so intelligent, he would know that something as trivial as not wearing a flag pin would become an issue.

One thing I've figured out about Obama is that he likes to find ways to call out the stupidity and bias in our society. I think he used the flag pin as a somewhat innocuous thing to try and get a reading on just how smart or stupid the general American populace is. He found that a large portion of them were stupid and would gleefully fixate on a complete non-issue, tried to address it and raise awareness that it really is a non-issue, found that those stupid people couldn't be convinced otherwise and put the pin back on and went about his business. He used it as a bit of a social barometer if you will to gauge how to present some of his other more important issues. Pretty smart of him, if you ask me.

jag

[Marx]

He's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. Jesus, he's a politician, people. Not the freakin' pope. People need to chill out and not expect the guy to walk on water. I certainly don't, and any sane Obama supporter doesn't either.

Then he shouldn't have put himself in the ridiculous position that he did. He has no one to blame but himself for the messes that he finds himself in. That's all I'm saying.

[jaguarr]

He's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. Jesus, he's a politician, people. Not the freakin' pope. People need to chill out and not expect the guy to walk on water. I certainly don't, and any sane Obama supporter doesn't either.

The current Pope is kind of a douche-bag and arguably a more divisive figure than Obama is. Heh!

jag

[souvlaki]

The current Pope is kind of a douche-bag and arguably a more divisive figure than Obama is. Heh!

jag

Well... bad analogy. I'll just stick to the "messiah" analogy I used instead.

[The Senator]

There are ways to influence people and gain their support without reducing yourself to looking like a hypocrite Jman.

So, basically, all politicians who run for national office shouldn't campaign? Because you win states by pandering to certain demographics, whether you claim you're above such tactics or not. No candidate represents every demographic in this country. Obama will have to put on a bolo tie and jeans if he wants to convince people in the west to vote for him. He may have to go as far as simplifying his rhetoric and standing in front of a giant cross to appeal to simple-minded folks in the South. Hell, Clinton donned a fake southern accent to address supporters in Mississippi. They all pander. They have to if they hope to win some of these states.

[Marx]

Exactly-- the polls told him to denounce and reject Wright, which he did. Which shows that he listens to voter sentiment. I'm glad he distanced himself from Wright. He did what he needed to do at the time to draw a distinction between Wright's views and his own views. He's left the man's church, he's apparently got a new pastor... Wright is over and done with.

I used Wright as an example to a question that was asked to me. I had no intention of rehashing all of this crap yet again.


Obama may paint himself as better than everyone else, but doesn't every politician do that to some extent? All political candidates have some sort of arrogance about them which makes them seem better than their opponents. Clinton plays herself as an "experienced" candidate, which is really laughable considering she only has seven years in the Senate and the rest of her experience is a bunch of lies glued together with bull ****.


I agree that all politicians have some level of arrogance, but Obama's is mind-blowing. (At least to me.)


I think it's a bull **** argument to keep attacking Obama for his pastor when he did what it was you wanted him to do to condemn Wright. What could he have done better-- should he have invented a time machine and traveled back in time twenty years to leave the man's church? I mean, there wasn't much more he could have done. If he was continuing to ignore Wright, then I'd agree that this is an important issue. But he listened to the concerns of many voters and did what they wanted him to do.


As I said, I had no intention to rehash this again. I brought it up as an example, not to reopen WWIII over the issue again.


Now, like it or not, Obama will be the Democratic nominee, unless the Supreme Commander of the Universe changes the number line between now and the convention. It is up to him to unite this party, and I think you have to give him a chance to do that before you abandon all hope because he made you mad during the primary.

I do not like the idea of him being the nominee. I will attempt to give him a chance, but I don't think I can ever truly support him. (I'm just being honest with you Jman.)

[souvlaki]

Then he shouldn't have put himself in the ridiculous position that he did. He has no one to blame but himself for the messes that he finds himself in. That's all I'm saying.

I don't know if you caught my other post, but the only people to blame in this situation are the idiots that voted against him yesterday because he's a "Muslim". If there were countless people debating my faith, I'd shove my faith down their throat too in the simplest terms possible for them to understand. What is he supposed to do? Just ignore it and hope that people will have the intelligence to put two and two together and realize the guy is a Christian? That plan hasn't seemed to work so far apparently.

[Marx]

So, basically, all politicians who run for national office shouldn't campaign? Because you win states by pandering to certain demographics, whether you claim you're above such tactics or not. No candidate represents every demographic in this country. Obama will have to put on a bolo tie and jeans if he wants to convince people in the west to vote for him. He may have to go as far as simplifying his rhetoric and standing in front of a giant cross to appeal to simple-minded folks in the South. Hell, Clinton donned a fake southern accent to address supporters in Mississippi. They all pander. They have to if they hope to win some of these states.

I get that Jman, and completely agree. I'm just saying that Obama put himself in a ridiculous position.


(By the way, I did find her Mississippi accent amusing.)

[Marx]

I don't know if you caught my other post, but the only people to blame in this situation are the idiots that voted against him yesterday because he's a "Muslim". If there were countless people debating my faith, I'd shove my faith down their throat too in the simplest terms possible for them to understand. What is he supposed to do? Just ignore it and hope that people will have the intelligence to put two and two together and realize the guy is a Christian? That plan hasn't seemed to work so far apparently.

I don't believe I saw that post, this thread is moving at lightning speed this evening! I understand why he did, but I don't think it was the wisest decision. Unfortunately, the people that voted on those kinds of basis will never change their minds. It's sad, but true.

[The Senator]

I don't know if you caught my other post, but the only people to blame in this situation are the idiots that voted against him yesterday because he's a "Muslim". If there were countless people debating my faith, I'd shove my faith down their throat too in the simplest terms possible for them to understand. What is he supposed to do? Just ignore it and hope that people will have the intelligence to put two and two together and realize the guy is a Christian? That plan hasn't seemed to work so far apparently.

Exactly.

There are idiots in some of these states-- and it wouldn't shock me at all if they exist in Kentucky-- who think Obama is a Muslim and they simply won't vote for him because of it. I don't see how Obama can do anything other present himself as a stern Christian to ward off such misconceptions. The media has made this into a bigger issue than it should be.

"Barack... hmm, rhymes with 'Iraq'... Hussein?! You mean like Saddam?!... Obama... OSAMA!!! TERRORIST!!!"

That's the kind of subtle message I get whenever one of those news stations runs a story on Obama's faith or middle name. They're making this into a bigger issue than it needs to be, and sadly, some voters are starting to believe in all these misconceptions because of the coverage he has received.

[souvlaki]

Edwards just endorsed Obama....

[The Senator]

CNN confirms that Edwards will be endorsing Obama...

[Marx]

Edwards just endorsed Obama....

I wonder if that's a signal that he wouldn't mind being Obama's VP?

[The Senator]

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/05/14/hillary-clinton-chokes-up-in-cnn-interview/

Crying won't win her the nomination now...

[souvlaki]

I wonder if that's a signal that he wouldn't mind being Obama's VP?

I would be happy with that choice, but I doubt Edwards will go down that road again. Attorney General Edwards?

[The Senator]

Edwards is probably Obama's best VP choice... that said, I don't think Edwards wants it... but I do think he wants the AG job

[rdh007]

You can go to woodtv.com to watch the local guy with a camera on him during down time.

[rdh007]

I apologize. I thought it didn't post at all and it turns out I turned a triple play of fail.

[rdh007]

http://www.woodtv.com/Global/category.asp?C=135876

[kainedamo]

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/05/14/hillary-clinton-chokes-up-in-cnn-interview/

Crying won't win her the nomination now...

When I click the video it just links me to a different video.

[souvlaki]

Edwards is probably Obama's best VP choice... that said, I don't think Edwards wants it... but I do think he wants the AG job

You don't think the experience factor (or lack thereof) may make him a bad choice? On the other hand, it does helps with the blue collar workers. Personally, I'd be thrilled. Back in January I was torn between supporting him or Obama so having both of them on the ticket would make me quite a happy camper.

[souvlaki]

Actually, this is probably really good timing now that I think of it. Edwards may help him out in Kentucky.

[Marx]

I would be happy with that choice, but I doubt Edwards will go down that road again. Attorney General Edwards?

Edwards is probably Obama's best VP choice... that said, I don't think Edwards wants it... but I do think he wants the AG job

I agree. I do think Edwards would be Obama's best option, but I could see him as Attorney General instead.

[Marx]

Clinton and Obama campaigns to raise money together
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080514/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_fundraising

[The Senator]

You don't think the experience factor (or lack thereof) may make him a bad choice? On the other hand, it does helps with the blue collar workers. Personally, I'd be thrilled. Back in January I was torn between supporting him or Obama so having both of them on the ticket would make me quite a happy camper.

Edwards has a full Senate term under his belt, plus he spent three years working to draw attention to the poverty issue in the United States and in certain parts of the world. Also, Edwards is still loved in North Carolina, and considering some polls show Obama and McCain tied in that state, it could help the ticket there. Not only that, but I think Edwards plays well with blue collar voters in places like Ohio and West Virginia, and his pre-existing name recognition means he doesn't have to worry about introducing himself to voters like a nationally unknown candidate such as Sherrod Brown or Bob Kerrey would.

[souvlaki]

Clinton and Obama campaigns to raise money together
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080514/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_fundraising

That is a good sign. I wonder if this means the end in finally in sight. It also calms my fears of the Clinton kamakaze mission that many people were predicting.

[Marx]

That is a good sign. I wonder if this means the end in finally in sight. It also calms my fears of the Clinton kamakaze mission that many people were predicting.

Hillary Clinton would never intentionally do anything to hurt or destroy the Democratic Party.

[souvlaki]

Edwards has a full Senate term under his belt, plus he spent three years working to draw attention to the poverty issue in the United States and in certain parts of the world. Also, Edwards is still loved in North Carolina, and considering some polls show Obama and McCain tied in that state, it could help the ticket there. Not only that, but I think Edwards plays well with blue collar voters in places like Ohio and West Virginia, and his pre-existing name recognition means he doesn't have to worry about introducing himself to voters like a nationally unknown candidate such as Sherrod Brown or Bob Kerrey would.

Oh, I more than agree the guy has the experience needed, I was just questioning if other people would feel the same. Now that I think about it, I really want an Obama/Edwards ticket now. Hey Jman, you know your politics better than most on here. Has there every been a politician that was the VP choice for two seperate candidates?

[The Senator]

Hillary Clinton would never intentionally do anything to hurt or destroy the Democratic Party.

Such as staying in the race when it's mathematically impossible for her to win, saying her opponent can't win swing states, or making fun of her opponent's platform?

[souvlaki]

Hillary Clinton would never intentionally do anything to hurt or destroy the Democratic Party.

I certainly hope not. The last week has been encouraging. I'm more of the opinion now that she simply believes she can win, not that she is necessarily trying to kill Obama's chances in November. That's my hope at least.

[Marx]

Such as staying in the race when it's mathematically impossible for her to win, saying her opponent can't win swing states, or making fun of her opponent's platform?

You really are impossible Jman. But it's ok, I'll forgive you for that! :oldrazz:

[rdh007]

Such as staying in the race when it's mathematically impossible for her to win, saying her opponent can't win swing states, or making fun of her opponent's platform?

Ego is an absolute necessity to run for this office. Unfortunately, hubris is reeeeeaaaaaalllllly close to ego.

[The Senator]

Has there every been a politician that was the VP choice for two seperate candidates?

Yes, actually. Adlai Stevenson was Vice President under Grover Cleveland from 1893-1897, and then unsuccessfully ran for Vice President with William Jennings Bryan in 1900.

[souvlaki]

You really are impossible Jman. But it's ok, I'll forgive you for that! :oldrazz:

Well, I get where Jman is coming from. Personally I think she still thinks she can win this, and she's willing to go about winning it at any costs, even if it means damaging Obama. Granted, she's not being nearly as condescending toward Obama as she was last week, but she's still living in fantasy land. The way she's acted lately though is at least starting to make me feel as if her mission is not to destroy the Democratic Party... she's just being stubborn.

[The Senator]

Also, Thomas Hendricks ran with Sam Tilden in 1876, and ran in 1884 with Cleveland and won.

[Marx]

Well, I get where Jman is coming from. Personally I think she still thinks she can win this, and she's willing to go about winning it at any costs, even if it means damaging Obama. Granted, she's not being nearly as condescending toward Obama as she was last week, but she's still living in fantasy land. The way she's acted lately though is at least starting to make me feel as if her mission is not to destroy the Democratic Party... she's just being stubborn.

It serves her no purpose at all to continue going negative and risk damaging herself, Obama, or the Party.

[Raiden]

I certainly hope not. The last week has been encouraging. I'm more of the opinion now that she simply believes she can win, not that she is necessarily trying to kill Obama's chances in November. That's my hope at least.

I don't know why she still thinks she can win. There is no way she can win the rest of the primaries by wide enough margins to catch up to Obama, and Obama has even surpassed her in superdelegate support. She's just in the race because her pride (or arrogance) is keeping her there.

[souvlaki]

So... what will happen with Edwards' delegates now? Edwards' 19 delegates would be a perfect way to counter what happened last night.

[kainedamo]

http://www.woodtv.com/Global/category.asp?C=135876

They just played some really cheesy song with a voice, sounded like Obama's, going over and over "yes we can, yes we can".

[The Senator]

So... what will happen with Edwards' delegates now? Edwards' 19 delegates would be a perfect way to counter what happened last night.

If he releases them, I think the delegates get to choose whoever it is they want to support... but I'm not too sure...

[Excel]

Edwards to Obama!

WORD!!!!

[Excel]

Btw...for those who think Hilldogs gonna be supporting McCain after Barack officially beats her....


http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/14/clinton/index.html

[The Senator]

I don't know why she still thinks she can win. There is no way she can win the rest of the primaries by wide enough margins to catch up to Obama, and Obama has even surpassed her in superdelegate support. She's just in the race because her pride (or arrogance) is keeping her there.

I'm guessing she can't get over the fact that she's lost this nomination. If it were any other candidate, he or she would have withdrawn from the race by now, especially if the campaign was in debt and it was mathematically impossible to win. She was expected to win this nomination since 2004, and she was practically inevitable until the Iowa caucus. Now that it has been ripped away from her by Obama, she simply doesn't want to face that it won't be her taking that oath in January.

[Excel]

Holy **** that place is absolutley PACKED!

[The Senator]

Also, I want to reiterate my belief that U2's "Beautiful Day" should be banned from political rallies...

[Excel]

I cannot get over how many ****ing people are there. That has to be atleast 25 k.

And lets start up the Edwards-as-VPtalk. If it seems the working class vote is what Obama needs....you never know...

And its nice to see him getting a large hand.

edit: and now theyre clapping for hillary :eek:

[Raiden]

Also, I want to reiterate my belief that U2's "Beautiful Day" should be banned from political rallies...

I used to like U2, but I found it hard to like their music after "Rattle and Hum". Aside from "Beautiful Day", I also can't stand "One". It's bad when you see artists like Mary J. Blige did a cover for it.

[StorminNorman]

Hillary Clinton would never intentionally do anything to hurt or destroy the Democratic Party.

If destroying the party is better for her own self interest - she will.

[kainedamo]

Anyone else watching Edwards speech?

[kal-el2006]

the real dream ticket!

[The Senator]

Anyone else watching Edwards speech?

Yes, and I truly believe he should be the Democratic nominee. But I'd settle for VP.

[Marx]

Anyone else watching Edwards speech?

I am. Edwards sounds more like the VP than an endorser.

[StorminNorman]

At this point, what relevance does John Edwards bring? This endorsement has about as much meaning as last night's win for Hillary. This is a man who didn't win in 2004, a man who couldn't win his state as a VP in 2004 and a man who couldn't fire up a real oppositional campaign against the most hated women in the country this election.

He is a political dunce who has little meaning at this point.

[Marx]

At this point, what relevance does John Edwards bring? This endorsement has about as much meaning as last night's win for Hillary. This is a man who didn't win in 2004, a man who couldn't win his state as a VP in 2004 and a man who couldn't fire up a real oppositional campaign against the most hated women in the country this election.

He is a political dunce who has little meaning at this point.

I wouldn't call him a dunce Norm, he still commands alot of respect within the party.

[Comicfilmer]

At this point, what relevance does John Edwards bring? This endorsement has about as much meaning as last night's win for Hillary. This is a man who didn't win in 2004, a man who couldn't win his state as a VP in 2004 and a man who couldn't fire up a real oppositional campaign against the most hated women in the country this election.

He is a political dunce who has little meaning at this point.

But he sure does have nice hair. :word:

[Raiden]

I don't think Edwards would be the VP nominee; he was the nominee in '04 and it'd be too redundant. However, if Obama wins the election, I think he'll appoint Edwards as AG instead.

[StorminNorman]

I wouldn't call him a dunce Norm, he still commands alot of respect within the party.

For what? Yes, he won his seat in South Carolina - a seat he was going to lose in 2004. Since then what has he done to make himself a person that commands a lot of respect?

I mean it sounds like he has done a lot of research American's problems and has generated his own answers and ideas for the country - but he can't seem to win elections. And what real good does someone with his own agenda do as a Vice President? What is the appeal to have him in that slot? What good did he do Kerry, like at all?

[comicgirl]

I don't think Edwards would be the VP nominee; he was the nominee in '04 and it'd be too redundant. However, if Obama wins the election, I think he'll appoint Edwards as AG instead.Yeah, but they look great together...young, determined, driven.....

McCain will either have to pick someone old (elder statesmen unite and all that) or someone youthful and animated. Is it just me, or does McCain look like he's off his meds?:huh:

[kainedamo]

I liked Obama's speech.

I liked how he said he'd shut down Guantanamo and said he wouldn't stand for the genocide in Darfur. Good stuff.

[comicgirl]

I'm guessing she can't get over the fact that she's lost this nomination. If it were any other candidate, he or she would have withdrawn from the race by now, especially if the campaign was in debt and it was mathematically impossible to win. She was expected to win this nomination since 2004, and she was practically inevitable until the Iowa caucus. Now that it has been ripped away from her by Obama, she simply doesn't want to face that it won't be her taking that oath in January.
Thank you...............if Obama was behind in the primary and pulled the same #$%#$ that she's trying to perpetrate, can you imagine the recriminations that would fall on him? :wow:

[Matt]

I don't think Edwards would be the VP nominee; he was the nominee in '04 and it'd be too redundant. However, if Obama wins the election, I think he'll appoint Edwards as AG instead.

Agreed. Nor do I think we should read into Edwards' endorsment much. Edwards played it safe. He waited until there was a likely, clear cut, winner to endorse. Odds are he would've endorsed after NC/Indiana but the Obama campaign asked him to hold off to off-set the WV win.

[Excel]

Edwards is very relevant because he was the 3rd most high profile candidate. Lets be real though, he is not Al Gore. That is the big one.

What Edwards is, however, is a name that the press will run with because he is the former vice presidential candidate. His endorsement has destroyed whatever press Hillary was getting from her win last night. His endorsement puts some of the doubt over wether Obama can get working class voters in question, because those people liked Edwards. His endorsement is the 1st ofthe big 3 ( edwards, Gore, n Pelosi) that the nominee wants, as they will get a lot of press. His endorsement may mean even more supers come out; it is big for an endorsement, but lets be clear they dont mean very much. How did Kerry n kennedy help Obama in Mass?

Now, how effective is Edwards a politician is up to anybody to figure out.

[Matt]

Thank you...............if Obama was behind in the primary and pulled the same #$%#$ that she's trying to perpetrate, can you imagine the recriminations that would fall on him? :wow:

Absolutely no more than Clinton. Clinton still has a very small window. Its not like she is done. Her campaign is virtually over, but the window is still there. Besides, she IS getting hell from the party and pundits for not dropping out.

[Matt]

Edwards is very relevant because he was the 3rd most high profile candidate. Lets be real though, he is not Al Gore. That is the big one.

What Edwards is, however, is a name that the press will run with because he is the former vice presidential candidate. His endorsement has destroyed whatever press Hillary was getting from her win last night.

Bingo, and that is likely the plan. Edwards was probably ready to endorse after last week, because the winner was clear, but the campaign probably asked him to hold off in order to off-set Clinton's win.

[Excel]

I heard a rumor that the reason Clinton may be staying in is to help Obama with her own supporters. If she spends the next 3 weeks telling all of her folks how good Obama is instead of McCain (rather than good she is instead of Barack)...like she did to wolf blitzer, if anybody watched....this could be a very effective way of healing the party.

[Marx]

Bingo, and that is likely the plan. Edwards was probably ready to endorse after last week, because the winner was clear, but the campaign probably asked him to hold off in order to off-set Clinton's win.

That's very possible.

[StorminNorman]

McCain will either have to pick someone old (elder statesmen unite and all that) or someone youthful and animated. Is it just me, or does McCain look like he's off his meds?:huh:

Yes, it is just you. :up:

You are half right though, he does have to pick someone youthful - though with such a thought provoking statement as "McCain is going to have pick someone old or someone young" you were just bound to get something right.

[StorminNorman]

Edwards is very relevant because he was the 3rd most high profile candidate. Lets be real though, he is not Al Gore. That is the big one.

What Edwards is, however, is a name that the press will run with because he is the former vice presidential candidate. His endorsement has destroyed whatever press Hillary was getting from her win last night. His endorsement puts some of the doubt over wether Obama can get working class voters in question, because those people liked Edwards. His endorsement is the 1st ofthe big 3 ( edwards, Gore, n Pelosi) that the nominee wants, as they will get a lot of press. His endorsement may mean even more supers come out; it is big for an endorsement, but lets be clear they dont mean very much. How did Kerry n kennedy help Obama in Mass?

Now, how effective is Edwards a politician is up to anybody to figure out.

Actually you have this pretty well nailed, the only reason this endorsement matters is because Edwards was the third highest profile candidate - it has little to do with the man himself.

I understand the importance it plays with the campaign (media and all that) - but what I am questioning is why is this getting the play it does? Why is Edwards a newsmaker at this point? Again - what has he done to make himself matter?

[YsoSerious]

Edwards delivers killing stroke to Hillary. The long campaign is now officially over. Hillary will probably still be campaigning 2 years from now just to avoid going home to Bill. She's become a joke and should have dropped out 2 months ago. She's helped McCain so much he should chose her as a running mate.

[StorminNorman]

Edwards delivers killing stroke to Hillary. The long campaign is now officially over. Hillary will probably still be campaigning 2 years from now just to avoid going home to Bill. She's become a joke and should have dropped out 2 months ago. She's helped McCain so much he should chose her as a running mate.

Officially? Its officially over? Again - what did Edwards do to make this official?

He isn't even a Super Delegate.

[Arkady Rossovich]

Edwards nominates Obama,this may be the last in the coffin for Clinton. He does hold some sway over voters,and Obama could turn this into extra support.

[comicgirl]

Officially? Its officially over? Again - what did Edwards do to make this official?

He isn't even a Super Delegate.

He doesn't have to be......that was beautifully timed....They handed her a$$ to her on national tv

[comicgirl]

Edwards nominates Obama,this may be the last in the coffin for Clinton. He does hold some sway over voters,and Obama could turn this into extra support.



Top Ten reasons why lightning struck in the contest for the 2008 Democratic nomination

#10. Great Team. Obama assembled a great team that could work together. He stayed away from lobbyist insiders like Clinton's Mark Penn or McCain's Charlie Black, and choose political professionals who are committed to progressive values like David Plouffe, David Axelrod, Steve Hildebrand and Paul Tewes. From the first he insisted on one key rule: no drama. There was little of the infighting and division in the Obama operation that ate away at the Clinton campaign. Clinton had many capable staffers and consultants, but Penn's divisive leadership style and failures as a strategist doomed the campaign organization to dysfunction. When the brilliant Geoff Garin was tapped to succeed Penn as Chief Strategist in April, it was simply too late.

#9. All-State Strategy. Mark Penn was convinced that Clinton could sew up the nomination by Super Tuesday focusing only on the big states. In fact, some have reported that he mistakenly believed that California had a "winner take all" primary. Obama's team hunted for delegates in every nook and cranny of America - especially in the caucus states that Clinton really didn't contest. Obama ran an active, on-the-ground campaign in every contest, from California to Guam. As a consequence, as one anonymous Clinton insider reports, Clinton lost the nomination in February after Obama ran the table in 11 straight states.

#8. No Plan B. The Clinton campaign had no fall-back plan when it failed to capture the nomination on February 5. There was no money, no organization and no plan to contest the states that lie in the land beyond Super Tuesday.

#7. Excellence in Execution: Great Field. Obama ran the best field operation in American political history -- particularly in the all important Iowa Caucuses. His campaign left no stone unturned, or a vote on the table, in any state. It opened offices everywhere, hired and trained great staff, and managed through simple, streamlined structures. It would have been easy for Obama to squander the massive influx of volunteers who were mobilized through his inspirational message. But the campaign developed structures to integrate and effectively use volunteers, both on the ground and through the Internet. In particular, it developed highly sophisticated new Internet tools to allow volunteers around the country to participate meaningfully in voter ID and get out the vote operations.

#6. Explosive Obama Fundraising. Obama's ability to compete everywhere, to build great field structures and to out-communicate Clinton in the paid media rested squarely on the massive fundraising operation. Obama's traditional fundraising program ended up matching the vaunted Clinton fundraising machine. But the newly developed Internet operation provided a massive advantage. So far Obama has recruited over one-and-a-half-million donors. In other words, by the time the primary season ends, almost one of every ten Obama primary voters (so far there have been 16.3 million) will have made a financial contribution to his campaign. That is beyond unprecedented.

#5. Obama Out-Communicated Clinton Using One Consistent Message. Obama's message has been consistent from Day One. Clinton lurched from "experienced insider" to "populist outsider" from Margaret Thatcher-like "Iron Lady" to a "victim being bullied." And of course, Obama's huge small-donor-driven fundraising advantage gave him the ability to out-communicate her in the paid media - often by a factor of two-to-one.

#4. Hope and Inspiration trumped Fear and Anger. A core element of that Obama message has always been hope and inspiration. Early on, John Edwards hit an important cord of populist anger that is critical to any successful Democratic campaign. Right now especially, people want their leaders to be populist outsiders not "competent" insiders. But Edwards was unable to resolve that anger into hope. Obama touched the anger but also held out possibility. When Hillary "found her voice" as the fighting populist at the end of the campaign, she tapped into anger as well. She didn't hesitate to play the fear card -- both when it came to foreign policy, and by channeling the Republican frame that "elitist professional types" are trying to destroy your way of life. But she never managed to inspire and resolve that fear into hope.

Inspiration is the one political message that simultaneously persuades swing voters and motivates mobilizable voters who rarely come to the polls. The North Carolina landslide provided a striking example of how inspiration can generate massive mobilization at the same time it appeals to independent swing voters.

#3. Unity Trumped Division. Obama showed that appeals to division - whether from elements that stirred up fear that a "black candidate couldn't win" - or from his former pastor - could be overcome by America's overwhelming hunger for unity. Americans - and particularly young Americans - are sick of Republican appeals based on the things that divide us, particularly race. It isn't 1988 anymore. A whole generation has passed from the scene and been replaced by young people who simply don't get the passions that allowed the fear of "Willie Horton" to decide the 1988 presidential race.

#2. Change Trumped Experience. Clinton Chief Strategist Mark Penn's fundamental strategic error was to position Clinton as the "Experience" candidate, when America desperately wanted change. Eighty percent of the voters think America is on the wrong track. They want change in general - and most importantly, they want change in the way special interests dominate Washington. Mark Penn, the consummate lobbyist-insider himself embodied the very thing people believe is wrong in Washington. It's no wonder he made this catastrophic strategic blunder.

#1. Obama is an Extraordinary Candidate. Inspirational, articulate, brilliant, funny, attractive and naturally empathetic - his history as a community organizer, his experience abroad, his beautiful family, accomplished wife, and adorable kids: Obama is the kind of candidate any campaign manager would want in any year. But he is perfect for this year. While the Clintons represented the Bridge to the 21st Century, Obama is the 21st century. His own, multi-cultural story is the future of America. As the campaign tested him, he showed he was cool, deliberate and effective under fire.

In the end, people vote for people. Campaigns are ultimately about the qualities of candidates --about whether or not people want them to be their leaders

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-creamer/top-10-reasons-obama-defe_b_101307.html

[rdh007]

Officially? Its officially over? Again - what did Edwards do to make this official?

He isn't even a Super Delegate.

His 19 delegates would put Obama within 10 (I think) of the majority of pledged delegates. Which he'll likely have within two Tuesdays.

Norm, don't hate him because he's beautiful.
hz8ul-gmLyA

[CrypticOne]

I'm glad Edwards endorsed Obama. Now I hope Clinton will have her supporters join Obama, or help him in his race against McCain.

[BlackLantern]

I'm glad Edwards endorsed Obama. Now I hope Clinton will have her supporters join Obama, or help him in his race against McCain.

but she won't....at least I don't think so...

[Spider-Bite]

At this point, what relevance does John Edwards bring? This endorsement has about as much meaning as last night's win for Hillary. This is a man who didn't win in 2004, a man who couldn't win his state as a VP in 2004 and a man who couldn't fire up a real oppositional campaign against the most hated women in the country this election.

He is a political dunce who has little meaning at this point.


With the way Obama and Clinton have been courting him for so long, their advisors must think it's worth something. Not to mention, his 18 delegates could end up swinging to Obama cause of this. In addition it can provide a small boost for Obama as he is having trouble with the exact voting bloc that had originally flocked to Edwards.

Needless to say, they both wanted his endorsement for a reason.

[Spider-Bite]

We all have somebody were close to, who is either homophobic, racist, or crazy in one way or another. Obama is no different.

If your guilty by association, than were all guilty. Obama's ideological thinking couldn't be farther from Wright. Obama knows that reaching out to those who oppose you or despise you is much wiser than pointing the finger at them with rhetoric.

If anybody doubts this, then remember Obama's stance on Iran. Plus I doubt Obama is prejudice against himself.

[Marx]

I'm glad Edwards endorsed Obama. Now I hope Clinton will have her supporters join Obama, or help him in his race against McCain.

but she won't....at least I don't think so...

A candidate's supporters will largely do what they want to. Endorsements don't really mean a whole lot. (Even if it is your own candidate endorsing someone else.)

[Spider-Bite]

It's people like Wright, Al Sharpton, and Jesse Jackson who play on the black communitys' distrust and paranoia to keep the racial divide open so they can still be relevant....it sickens me.......

My own personal way of combating this is sleeping with as many white women as possible....I'm building bridges


Sharpton does jump on racism every chance he gets, which might be repetitive, but not morally wrong by any standards. Although I agree he does it to stay relevant. However I dont' think he intentionally tries to keep the racial divide open, and I'm yet to hear a single racist comment out of his mouth.

Jesse jackson has made comments about the jewish community, and Wright thinks I want him as a slave just beause I'm white.

I do however think that Jesse was a man conditioned and he's a human with flaws now. I don't think he wants divides to continue. martin Luther King saw that quality in him, which is why they were so close.

Wright on the other hand is a downright extremist who only cares about himself if you ask me. However I bleieve Sharpton's role in politics is to help Democrats continue winning the black vote the way they do, and I really can't thank him enough for that.

[Matt]

We all have somebody were close to, who is either homophobic, racist, or crazy in one way or another. Obama is no different.

If your guilty by association, than were all guilty. Obama's ideological thinking couldn't be farther from Wright. Obama knows that reaching out to those who oppose you or despise you is much wiser than pointing the finger at them with rhetoric.

If anybody doubts this, then remember Obama's stance on Iran. Plus I doubt Obama is prejudice against himself.

Obama's guilt doesn't come from being associated with him, in my opinion. It comes from having the stupidity to make this man a paid advisor on his campaign staff.

[The Senator]

Obama's guilt doesn't come from being associated with him, in my opinion. It comes from having the stupidity to make this man a paid advisor on his campaign staff.

Wright wasn't paid... though that doesn't make the situation any better...

[StorminNorman]

He doesn't have to be......that was beautifully timed....They handed her a$$ to her on national tv

He does nothing for the campaign. Nothing is different today than it was yesterday. Obama has this taken care of - but Edwards is not a reason for it.

[souvlaki]

I heard a rumor that the reason Clinton may be staying in is to help Obama with her own supporters. If she spends the next 3 weeks telling all of her folks how good Obama is instead of McCain (rather than good she is instead of Barack)...like she did to wolf blitzer, if anybody watched....this could be a very effective way of healing the party.

That's been my thinking as well, and is also why I've tried to give her the benefit of the doubt the last week. She's not being nearly as destructive as she was a few weeks ago, and personally at this point I could really care less if she's still in this. She basically nothing more than Huckabee with a lot more delegates at this point.

[Matt]

Wright wasn't paid... though that doesn't make the situation any better...

My mistake, he was still a staff advisor. Volunteer or otherwise, the second Obama gave him a position on the campaign, be it as small as stuffing envelopes, he took him from his private life and put him in his public life and rightfully so because as a staff member, he is in a position to effect policy.

[StorminNorman]

With the way Obama and Clinton have been courting him for so long, their advisors must think it's worth something. Not to mention, his 18 delegates could end up swinging to Obama cause of this. In addition it can provide a small boost for Obama as he is having trouble with the exact voting bloc that had originally flocked to Edwards.

Needless to say, they both wanted his endorsement for a reason.

No one is going to vote for Obama because Edwards is his VP, sorry. He doesn't carry that sort of support.

[Matt]

Yeah, I like Edwards a lot but I tend to agree. Edwards could not even deliver his home state in 2004. Why on Earth would Obama put him in as VP?

[Erzengel]

Also, c'mon think Edwards jumped on the obvious winning train. :huh: :whatever:

[Marx]

He doesn't have to be......that was beautifully timed....They handed her a$$ to her on national tv

I would hardly say that they "handed her a** to her" on national tv. Even though Obama's supporters were disrespectful to her, Edwards was very complimentary.

I must admit, it takes a lot class to "boo" a fellow democrat. There is a certain level of respect that comes into play.

[The Senator]

We all have somebody were close to, who is either homophobic, racist, or crazy in one way or another. Obama is no different.

If your guilty by association, than were all guilty. Obama's ideological thinking couldn't be farther from Wright. Obama knows that reaching out to those who oppose you or despise you is much wiser than pointing the finger at them with rhetoric.

If anybody doubts this, then remember Obama's stance on Iran. Plus I doubt Obama is prejudice against himself.

That's a crappy excuse, to be honest. Obama deserved to be ridiculed for his failure to address this issue when it first erupted. He's a politician running for the highest office in the country. He's running to represent the values of all Americans. So when someone on his campaign implies that America deserved to be attacked on 9/11 before Obama hired him to be his campaign's spiritual adviser, Obama's judgment deserves to be questioned.

This wasn't about guilt by association, it was about his failure to address the concerns voters had over his judgment. People weren't saying "Oh, that Obama-- he has a racist friend, I'm not going to vote for him." They were asking "why did Obama hire this man when it was widely known he said these sort of things on a regular basis?"

Granted, I'm glad he apologized a few weeks ago. I think we can move on over this. But the six weeks in between was a public relations failure, and it became a much larger problem than it should have for the Obama campaign. Obama should have come out and denounced Wright from the start, instead of waiting to see whether this harmed him at the polls before making that decision.

[The Senator]

As much as I hated the idea before, I'm starting to think Obama's best VP bet would be Governor Kathleen Sebelius from Kansas. She's a woman, she's Catholic, and she appeals to rural voters-- three demographics Obama is struggling with. His other choice could be Governor Joe Manchin from West Virginia, as he too is Catholic and was elected in a 'rural' state.

Edwards would be a good choice, but I don't know if he'd solidify North Carolina for Obama, or if he'd be influential anywhere else. Clinton would probably destroy the ticket, Brown and Webb would be criticized for having a lack of experience... picking a running mate for Obama is a very tough call at this point...

[Matt]

I still maintain Rendell is the best choice...though, with Rendell's endless attempts to lease out the Pennsylvania turnpike to private companies despite Pennsylvanians very vocal objections, he could very well cause Obama to lose PA.

[Marx]

As much as I hated the idea before, I'm starting to think Obama's best VP bet would be Governor Kathleen Sebelius from Kansas. She's a woman, she's Catholic, and she appeals to rural voters-- three demographics Obama is struggling with. His other choice could be Governor Joe Manchin from West Virginia, as he too is Catholic and was elected in a 'rural' state.

Edwards would be a good choice, but I don't know if he'd solidify North Carolina for Obama, or if he'd be influential anywhere else. Clinton would probably destroy the ticket, Brown and Webb would be criticized for having a lack of experience... picking a running mate for Obama is a very tough call at this point...

That's putting it quite mildly Jman.

[Marx]

This thread has life again???

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

[The Senator]

I still maintain Rendell is the best choice...though, with Rendell's endless attempts to lease out the Pennsylvania turnpike to private companies despite Pennsylvanians very vocal objections, he could very well cause Obama to lose PA.

Also, Obama wins Pennsylvania by double digits at this point... Rendell would only serve to solidify a state Obama has a fair shot at winning... Obama needs to pick someone who could carry a swing state, or put other states in play...

[souvlaki]

Okay, the lady is officially crazy... Please, someone tell me this is a joke.

Just moments after former presidential candidate John Edwards endorsed Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill) for president, Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY) vowed to "continue the fight" for Edwards' endorsement.

"My friends, I will fight for the endorsement of John Edwards, even if it takes all summer," she told supporters in Louisville, Kentucky. "I have not begun to fight for this endorsement!"

The New York senator appeared to brush off Mr. Edwards' endorsement of Sen. Obama, saying, "I don't know what that has to do with anything."

While Sen. Clinton acknowledged that Sen. Edwards had made a joint appearance with Sen. Obama in which he endorsed the Illinois senator, she said, "If you think that's going to make me give up trying to get John Edwards' endorsement, you've got another thing coming."

She said that she was also "unconcerned" that Sen. Edwards had recently gotten a new phone number and not shared it with her.

"Anyone who believes that I'm going to be deterred by an obstacle like that doesn't know what I'm made of," she said. "Mark my words, I am going to get that endorsement."

Sen. Clinton's aides refused to comment on her quest for Edwards' endorsement, saying that they were too busy hiding copies of this week's Time magazine from her.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-borowitz/hillary-vows-to-fight-on_b_101802.html

[Marx]

Okay, the lady is officially crazy... Please, someone tell me this is a joke.

Just moments after former presidential candidate John Edwards endorsed Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill) for president, Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY) vowed to "continue the fight" for Edwards' endorsement.

"My friends, I will fight for the endorsement of John Edwards, even if it takes all summer," she told supporters in Louisville, Kentucky. "I have not begun to fight for this endorsement!"

The New York senator appeared to brush off Mr. Edwards' endorsement of Sen. Obama, saying, "I don't know what that has to do with anything."

While Sen. Clinton acknowledged that Sen. Edwards had made a joint appearance with Sen. Obama in which he endorsed the Illinois senator, she said, "If you think that's going to make me give up trying to get John Edwards' endorsement, you've got another thing coming."

She said that she was also "unconcerned" that Sen. Edwards had recently gotten a new phone number and not shared it with her.

"Anyone who believes that I'm going to be deterred by an obstacle like that doesn't know what I'm made of," she said. "Mark my words, I am going to get that endorsement."

Sen. Clinton's aides refused to comment on her quest for Edwards' endorsement, saying that they were too busy hiding copies of this week's Time magazine from her.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-borowitz/hillary-vows-to-fight-on_b_101802.html

Surely, that's a joke.

[souvlaki]

Surely, that's a joke.

I really, really, really hope so. Huffington Post aren't generally known for parody articles though, are they?

[Marx]

I really, really, really hope so. Huffington Post aren't generally known for parody articles though, are they?

I'm not sure...but this can't be serious.

Can it?

[BlackLantern]

I'm telling you all....Hilary is going to fight this thing tooth and nail and in doing so hurt the Dems and continue to divide the party....

[The Senator]

I wouldn't be all that surprised if it was true, at this point.

[souvlaki]

I'm not sure...but this can't be serious.

Can it?

If it is, I take back all the nice things I said about her the last week. That's just plain delusional.

[souvlaki]

I especially love the part about Edwards changing his phone number and not giving it to Clinton.

[The Senator]

I'm telling you all....Hilary is going to fight this thing tooth and nail and in doing so hurt the Dems and continue to divide the party....

Of course she will. And while she's doing it, she'll make the argument to Obama that the party is so divided, it won't be able to win in the fall without her on the ticket. That's the only way I see her becoming the Vice Presidential nominee, and I have a feeling she's willing to drag this well into July and August simply to prove that point.

[Matt]

That article MUST be satire.

[Marx]

That article MUST be satire.

That's what I'm saying Matt. Something like that cannot be true.

[souvlaki]

That article MUST be satire.

It certainly seems like it should be, but I've never known Huffington Post to do a flat out satire piece before, though I admit I'm not a regular reader or anything.

[souvlaki]

Okay, just did a little research. Yeah, it's a parody article. Jesus, that really scared me for a second there. I was starting to think she had officially gone bat **** crazy. Still pretty damn funny.

[StorminNorman]

For anyone to be able to read that article and not recognize the obvious sarcasm...

:(

"She said that she was also "unconcerned" that Sen. Edwards had recently gotten a new phone number and not shared it with her."


Come on people.

[The Senator]

For anyone to be able to read that article and not recognize the obvious sarcasm...

:(

"She said that she was also "unconcerned" that Sen. Edwards had recently gotten a new phone number and not shared it with her."


Come on people.

I think the use of an exclamation point in the third paragraph proved the article lacked journalistic integrity.

[souvlaki]

I think the use of an exclamation point in the third paragraph proved the article lacked journalistic integrity.

Well, it's the Huffington Post. They've never been a prime example of journalistic integrity. Obviously I should have realized right off the bat it was a satire piece, but it's a pretty sad state of affairs that things have gotten to the point where for a couple minutes I actually thought it might be real.

[souvlaki]

Obama apologizes for 'sweetie' comment
Posted: 09:13 PM ET

(CNN) – Barack Obama has personally apologized to a Michigan television reporter for referring to her as "sweetie" as she tried to ask a question.

The comment came earlier Wednesday when WXYZ reporter Peggy Agar asked Obama at a campaign stop, “How are you going to help the American auto workers?”

Obama told Agar to "hold on, sweetie," and said he would address that issue with her later. Agar said she never got an answer to her question.

According to WXYZ, Obama personally left a voice message for Agar Wednesday afternoon, apologizing for both not answering the question and for calling her "sweetie."

"That's a bad habit of mine," Obama said in the message. "I do it sometimes with all kinds of people. I mean no disrespect and so I am duly chastened on that front.

"Feel free to call me back. I expect that my press team will be happy to try to make it up to you whenever we are in Detroit next," he added.

Obama also took some heat in Pennsylvania last month for referring to a factory worker as "sweetie."





And the award for biggest non-story of the year goes to...

[Joker]

He should start reffering to women as "toots." Just cause that, and other 1920's slang, really needs to come back. He should also, in the same vein, start saying "you're the boss, applesauce" while flagepole sitting and his wife should dress like a flapper...

Wait, what was the topic again?

[souvlaki]

Just finished reading the hundreds of comments on the NARAL page announcing their endorsement of Barack Obama. For those of you that do not know, NARAL is a pro-choice organization that has been fighting for womens rights since 1968. Naturally, a good deal of their contributers are women that support Hillary Clinton. Now herein lies my problem. A lot of people complain about Obama's supporters, and certain sects of his supporters are, admittedly, nuts. But I have noticed a scary trend among some Clinton supporters that flat out scare me, and I'm starting to notice it more and more as this race goes on, and quite frankly, it disgusts me.

I can understand the anger among Clinton supporters over this endorsement. Clinton is an obvious endorsement for a group like NARAL as there are few women in positions as powerful as Clinton who have supported a woman's right to chose, or fought as hard as her to give them that right. But it's a difference of opinion, and I understand their choice to support Obama, as he will likely be our nominee, and he's a pro-choice candidate. But the self-destructive, selfish, and downright hypocritical views of some of the comments on that site have made me sick to my stomach. Long time supporters of the organization and self professed feminists demanding their donations back, canceling their news letter, completely turning their back on the organization, and of all things, threatening to vote for McCain, a pro-life candidate with the ability to possibly appoint two Supreme Court Justices just stuns me. These people make absolutely no sense to me. Get over it, for God's sake, and realize what you are saying.

[kainedamo]

A feminist shouldn't vote for a woman just because a woman is a canditate. That's pretty much counter-productive to the feminist movement.

[Matt]

A feminist shouldn't vote for a woman just because a woman is a canditate. That's pretty much counter-productive to the feminist movement.

And a black person (or anyone for that matter) shouldn't vote for a candidate just because he is black. It is completely patronizing to the candidate.

[moraldeficiency]

And a black person (or anyone for that matter) shouldn't vote for a candidate just because he is black. It is completely patronizing to the candidate.

Yeah but hillary isn't going to address women saying don't vote for me just cause I'm a woman anymore than obama is going to say don't vote for me because I'm black.

Politicians generally only speak out against prejudice when it hurts them.

[Erzengel]

Black vs. Woman is a totally different animal.

There is no female candidate that could just come in and "unite" the female vote. There isn't that much of a female unity in this country, or the world.

[terry78]

Fox News ran with that "sweetie" story all morning, and had it on the ticker and everything. Grasping for straws is the norm.

[moraldeficiency]

Black vs. Woman is a totally different animal.

There is no female candidate that could just come in and "unite" the female vote. There isn't that much of a female unity in this country, or the world.

Not saying it wasn't, just that no canidate is going to speak out against the prejudiced votes they recieve.

[Darthphere]

And the award for biggest non-story of the year goes to...

Fox News ran with that "sweetie" story all morning, and had it on the ticker and everything. Grasping for straws is the norm.

Well it would really be a non-issue if Obama hadn't show a history of talking down to people and being elitist. Maybe I'm just bitter.

[terry78]

Honestly, if I am running for office, and I don't WANT people voting for me because I'm black, I can't stop them. If it helps me, fine. But who would admit it?

[Erzengel]

Eh, there will be people not voting for you because you were black. So I think it pretty much balances out.

[Darthphere]

Honestly, if I am running for office, and I don't WANT people voting for me because I'm black, I can't stop them. If it helps me, fine. But who would admit it?

Obama needs a rap song as an official campaign song. None of that Will.I.A.M ********, those song suck. Like Jay-Z or something. "Yo B, he's the Barack"

[BlackLantern]

Honestly, if I am running for office, and I don't WANT people voting for me because I'm black, I can't stop them. If it helps me, fine. But who would admit it?

but you wants your dog gold plated???

[kainedamo]

Well it would really be a non-issue if Obama hadn't show a history of talking down to people and being elitist. Maybe I'm just bitter.

lol, is calling someone 'sweetie' talking down to them though?

It depends on context really.

But I mean, guys sometimes call stranger guys buddy, pal, chief, man, etc, and often its just a way of being friendly with a stranger, almost elevating them even.

[Darthphere]

lol, is calling someone 'sweetie' talking down to them though?

It depends on context really.

In the context presented, it is talking down to them. That's not his ho, or one of his girlfriends, thats a professional women asking him a legitimate question. How would you feel if you asked Hilary how she planned to stimulate the economy and she just told you "Hold on a second sweetie" and never answered your question?

[RockSP]

Eh, there will be people not voting for you because you were black. So I think it pretty much balances out.

LOL @ "balance".

[Erzengel]

It means a state of equilibrium.

[rdh007]

Well it would really be a non-issue if Obama hadn't show a history of talking down to people and being elitist. Maybe I'm just bitter.

You're not bitter. Just wrong.

[RockSP]

It means a state of equilibrium.

I know what it means. I just think it's funny you thought the "I'll vote for him because he's black" people could balance out the "I'm not voting for him because he's black" people.

[Erzengel]

Well it was a joke, but in all honesty I think the former would be more the latter.

[kainedamo]

You could aslo add on the "I think he's a Muslim so won't vote for him" people.

[RockSP]

"I just don't like that 'Hussein'. I've had ENOUGH of 'Hussein'!!!!!!!"

^^Some lady from West Virginia on a clip from The Daily Show

[Marx]

Obama apologizes for 'sweetie' comment
Posted: 09:13 PM ET

And the award for biggest non-story of the year goes to...

So what exactly is the big to-do about Obama calling someone "sweetie?" There are lots of people that do that all the time.

[WorthyStevens]

Well, I'd say this is a good coup for Obama.

Steelworkers endorse Obama for president


By JESSE J. HOLLAND, AP Labor Writer 50 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - The United Steelworkers union endorsed Democrat Barack Obama for president Thursday, giving the Illinois senator a powerful advocate in attracting blue-collar voters.
The endorsement comes one day after former presidential candidate and Steelworker ally John Edwards endorsed Obama, a key component in the union's decision to go with the Democratic front-runner. The union had earlier endorsed Edwards, who threw his support to Obama Wednesday night.
"We find ourselves once again in agreement with Senator Edwards, this time with his decision last evening to endorse Senator Barack Obama," the union said in a statement. "And thus today, the United Steelworkers enthusiastically endorses Senator Barack Obama to be the next president of the United States."
The Steelworkers are the second union that endorsed Edwards to now go with Obama. The 200,000-member Transport Workers Union earlier switched and endorsed Obama.
The United Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners and the United Mine Workers union — who also endorsed Edwards — have not made new endorsements in the race.
Obama and his presidential rival, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, have been courting the 600,000 member Steelworkers union since Edwards dropped out of the race. The union's executive board, however, was unanimous in picking Obama for its endorsement.
"All of us, including we hope Senator Clinton for whom we have the utmost respect, must now do everything we can to ensure that Barack Obama is the next president of the United States," the union said. "Now is the time for contention and division to cease, and for us to unite behind the changes for which Senator Obama and our members are calling."http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080515/ap_on_el_pr/obama_steelworkers

[Mr Sparkle]

Maybe I'm just bitter.

I'm starting to think this is so.:csad:

[Marx]

Well it would really be a non-issue if Obama hadn't show a history of talking down to people and being elitist. Maybe I'm just bitter.

OR you just genuinely dislike him. I'd go with that option rather than saying you're bitter. http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/icon14.gif

[souvlaki]

Well it would really be a non-issue if Obama hadn't show a history of talking down to people and being elitist. Maybe I'm just bitter.

I assume you have never had a girlfriend/wife or children before. Some people just address people with that term out of habit. I've been guilty of doing it from time to time. It's not a patronizing term. And he apologized immediately after, and even said it was a bad habit of his that is hard to break. My dad calls every guy he meets "chief", "buddy", or "pal", and every girl he meets "hun", and "sweetheart". It's nothing personal, he's just bad with names. Anyone that actually thinks this is a sexist remark really needs to grow up. My, what a politically correct world we have become where even "sweetie" is a demeaning word. It's a term of endearment, and most people would consider it a friendly term.

[Marx]

I assume you have never had a girlfriend/wife or children before. Some people just address people with that term out of habit. I've been guilty of doing it from time to time. It's not a patronizing term. And he apologized immediately after, and even said it was a bad habit of his that is hard to break. My dad calls every guy he meets "chief", "buddy", or "pal", and every girl he meets "hun", and "sweetheart". It's nothing personal, he's just bad with names. Anyone that actually thinks this is a sexist remark really needs to grow up. My, what a politically correct world we have become where even "sweetie" is a demeaning word. It's a term of endearment, and most people would consider it a friendly term.

I couldn't agree with you more Souv. Alot of people use terms like these, (myself included,) and they are far from being sexist.

[Mr Sparkle]

and at one point or another hasn't Bush called the press all kinds of nicknames?
I mean, I don;t think it made the news or even people that genuinely dislike him thought it merited the morning news.

[Darthphere]

I'm starting to think this is so.:csad:

I know so.:csad:

OR you just genuinely dislike him. I'd go with that option rather than saying you're bitter. http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/icon14.gif

I don't dislike him at all, I dislike his attitude towards working class americans. :up:

I couldn't agree with you more Souv. Alot of people use terms like these, (myself included,) and they are far from being sexist.

Of course a sexist would say he isn't a sexist. Just like everybody in prison say they're innocent.:o:o

[Darthphere]

and at one point or another hasn't Bush called the press all kinds of nicknames?
I mean, I don;t think it made the news or even people that genuinely dislike him thought it merited the morning news.

Well he did tell that blind guy to take his sunglasses off once. That caused a stir for like 30 minutes.

[The Senator]

I wonder how many weeks this non-issue will live for?

[Mr Sparkle]

I know so.:csad:


Xfactor's changing roster is getting to me too:csad:

[Darthphere]

I wonder how many weeks this non-issue will live for?

I bet my extensive comic book collection that this will be over by tonight when Obama calls someone "boy". :up:

[Marx]

I don't dislike him at all, I dislike his attitude towards working class americans. :up:


Then I stand corrected. I'm just saying that I wouldn't call yourself bitter.


Of course a sexist would say he isn't a sexist. Just like everybody in prison say they're innocent.:o:o

I certainly hope that you're not trying to imply that I (or anyone else who uses those terms) is/are sexist. If that is what you're getting at, you couldn't be MORE wrong.

I wonder how many weeks this non-issue will live for?

Entirely too long Jman.

[Darthphere]

Xfactor's changing roster is getting to me too:csad:

Hold me Sparkle.:csad:

[souvlaki]

And a black person (or anyone for that matter) shouldn't vote for a candidate just because he is black. It is completely patronizing to the candidate.

You really, honestly believe that is even comparable? Polls showed back in January black people supported both candidates almost equally. Clinton did that damage to herself. But there is absolutely NOTHING more hypocritical than being adamantly pro-choice and turning your back on an organization they've belonged to that has fought for that right for over thirty years, and threatening to vote for a candidate that goes against everything they believe in in that regard just because they can't get over their candidate losing, and someone having an opinion different from theirs. That is just downright pathetic.

[Darthphere]

I certainly hope that you're not trying to imply that I (or anyone else who uses those terms) is/are sexist. If that is what you're getting at, you couldn't be MORE wrong.

No I don't really know you so I wouldn't make that type of judgment on you. Just saying, a sexist wouldn't be like "Yeah, I'm a sexist". Jman however is a blatant sexist.:o

[Mr Sparkle]

here's an idea, let's stop discussing it!!!