The Obama Thread (Merged x6)

[The Senator]

You really, honestly believe that is even comparable? Polls showed back in January black people supported both candidates almost equally. Clinton did that damage to herself. But there is absolutely NOTHING more hypocritical than being adamantly pro-choice and turning your back on an organization they've belonged to that has fought for that right for over thirty years, and threatening to vote for a candidate that goes against everything they believe in in that regard just because they can't get over their candidate losing. That is just downright pathetic.

I agree. If women want the right to choose, then they'd better not piss and moan for the next six months and decide to vote for McCain because Clinton can't be president. That would be the worst decision they could make, especially if McCain somehow gets another conservative who opposes Roe v. Wade on the bench.

[Marx]

No I don't really know you so I wouldn't make that type of judgment on you. Just saying, a sexist wouldn't be like "Yeah, I'm a sexist". Jman however is a blatant sexist.:o

Well I appreciate you not accusing me of sexism. I guess I just fail to see how that term is sexist. I guess it does all go in the context and tone of which it is being used, but...

I still think that making this an issue is a bit ridiculous.

[Darthphere]

Well I appreciate you not accusing me of sexism. I guess I just fail to see how that term is sexist. I guess it does all go in the context and tone of which it is being used, but...

I still think that making this an issue is a bit ridiculous.

Lets put it this way, about a month or two ago, there was this big controversy over Mass Effect and it's sexual content. Some therapist lady was on Fox news arguing about the damaging effects and was being debated by some douche video game expert, he made a good point and she went "Listen sweetie..." to him, and that apparently was demeaning to everyone who saw the interview and commented on this here site. Just saying, the context matters.

And I agree, this shouldn't be an issue, but these people are under a microscope right now and need to be careful with everything they say however innocent it might be.

[Excel]

atleast 7 of Edwards delegates have officially declared for Barack!

[souvlaki]

(CNN) — The chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee Joe Biden, D-Delaware, called President Bush’s comments accusing Sen. Barack Obama and other Democrats of wanting to appease terrorists "bull ****” and said if the president disagrees so strongly with the idea of talking to Iran then he needs to fire his secretaries of State and Defense, both of whom Biden said have pushed to sit down with the Iranians.

“This is bull ****. This is malarkey. This is outrageous. Outrageous for the president of the United States to go to a foreign country, sit in the Knesset…and make this kind of ridiculous statement,” Biden said angrily in a brief interview just off the Senate floor.

“He’s the guy who’s weakened us. He’s the guy that’s increased the number of terrorists in the world. His policies have produced this vulnerability the United States has. His intelligence community pointed that out not me. The NIE has pointed that out and what are you talking about, is he going to fire Condi Rice? Condi Rice has talked about the need to sit down. So his first two appeasers are Rice and Gates. I hope he comes home and does something.”


Go Biden!

[souvlaki]

And I agree, this shouldn't be an issue, but these people are under a microscope right now and need to be careful with everything they say however innocent it might be.

Well, that goes to show just how ridiculous people are. There are people dying in Iraq, our economy is spirally downward fast. People need to stop being so sensitive over such petty crap.

[Marx]

(CNN) — The chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee Joe Biden, D-Delaware, called President Bush’s comments accusing Sen. Barack Obama and other Democrats of wanting to appease terrorists "bull ****” and said if the president disagrees so strongly with the idea of talking to Iran then he needs to fire his secretaries of State and Defense, both of whom Biden said have pushed to sit down with the Iranians.

“This is bull ****. This is malarkey. This is outrageous. Outrageous for the president of the United States to go to a foreign country, sit in the Knesset…and make this kind of ridiculous statement,” Biden said angrily in a brief interview just off the Senate floor.

“He’s the guy who’s weakened us. He’s the guy that’s increased the number of terrorists in the world. His policies have produced this vulnerability the United States has. His intelligence community pointed that out not me. The NIE has pointed that out and what are you talking about, is he going to fire Condi Rice? Condi Rice has talked about the need to sit down. So his first two appeasers are Rice and Gates. I hope he comes home and does something.”


Go Biden!

I love Joe Biden! :yay:

[Spider-Bite]

No one is going to vote for Obama because Edwards is his VP, sorry. He doesn't carry that sort of support.


Edwards endorsement pays off for Obama

Illinois senator nabs support of four additional delegates

http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/ap/d44017f6-5c3e-47d6-bf76-17ae85a57603.hmedium.jpg (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24633638/displaymode/1176/rstry/24650698/)

WASHINGTON - Barack Obama (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16438329/) collected the support of four of John Edwards' Democratic National Convention delegates on Thursday, then gained the backing of a West Coast congressman and a large labor union as he marched steadily toward the party's presidential nomination.
The fresh support brought Obama's overall delegate total to 1,892, compared to 1,718 for his rival, Hillary Rodham Clinton (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16123860/). It takes 2,026 to clinch the nomination at the party convention in Denver this summer.
Edwards, who bestowed his long-sought endorsement on Obama on Wednesday, won 19 delegates before departing the presidential race in January.

Within hours, Obama picked up the backing of three of them from South Carolina and one in New Hampshire.
In addition, Rep. James McDermott, a superdelegate, endorsed Obama. "I believe now is the time to unite behind Barack Obama so we can be in the strongest place possible to win in November," he said.
Edwards also had been backed by the United Steelworkers Union, which announced it would now support Obama. The union has 600,000 active members, many of them blue-collar workers of the type that have favored Clinton in recent primaries.
The increased support came despite Obama's overwhelming defeat in Tuesday's primary in West Virginia, and suggested that Clinton's argument that she would be a better general election candidate was not finding a receptive audience.
The former first lady is favored to win next week's primary in Kentucky, while Obama is expected to win in Oregon the same day.
The delegates won by Edwards are not bound by his endorsement of Obama, but several said it is important to their decision.
"I will cast my vote for who John Edwards asks me to," said Robert Groce, a South Carolina delegate won by Edwards.

Iowa delegate Dave Redlawsk said he was not ready to declare for Obama. But, he added, "John's endorsement weighs heavily in a positive way. I take seriously his endorsement, his recommendation in a sense."
With the primary season winding down, both Clinton and Obama have turned their attention increasingly to the superdelegates, the members of Congress and other party officials who have seats at the convention by virtue of their positions.
Obama long trailed Clinton among superdelegates, but overtook her last week, and has pulled further away despite suffering one of his worst defeats in the campaign in West Virginia.
Clinton spent the day campaigning in South Dakota, one of two states that closes out the primary season on June 3. Obama was home in Chicago.
Both rivals had avidly sought Edwards' endorsement, particularly in the weeks after he dropped out of the race. The former North Carolina senator and 2004 vice presidential nominee had campaigned as a champion of the working class, and in the wake of his departure, Clinton consistently drew more blue-collar votes than Obama did.
"We are here tonight because the Democratic voters have made their choice, and so have I," Edwards said Wednesday to thunderous applause from an audience in Grand Rapids, Mich. He said Obama "stands with me" in a fight to cut poverty in half within 10 years, a claim Obama confirmed moments later.
Edwards told the rally that "we must come together as Democrats" to defeat Republican John McCain (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16438320/) in November.

He also praised Clinton.
"We are a stronger party" because of her involvement and "we're going to have a stronger nominee in the fall because of her work," he said.
Then as Edwards sat on stage and watched, Obama gave one of his most animated addresses in days, much of it devoted to fighting poverty. In America, he said, "you should never be homeless, you should never be hungry."
Clinton campaign chairman Terry McAuliffe said in a statement: "We respect John Edwards, but as the voters of West Virginia showed last night, this thing is far from over."
------------------------------------------------------------------
That's not what I said anyways. I said they were courting him for a reason.

[Matt]

You really, honestly believe that is even comparable? Polls showed back in January black people supported both candidates almost equally. Clinton did that damage to herself. But there is absolutely NOTHING more hypocritical than being adamantly pro-choice and turning your back on an organization they've belonged to that has fought for that right for over thirty years, and threatening to vote for a candidate that goes against everything they believe in in that regard just because they can't get over their candidate losing, and someone having an opinion different from theirs. That is just downright pathetic.

Of course it is comparable. To vote for someone based on skin color is no different than voting for someone based on sexual organ. Plain and simple.

[BlackLantern]

I think people should vote for me because I'm awesome

[Matt]

I'd vote for you in return for favors determined at a later date. :o

[souvlaki]

Of course it is comparable. To vote for someone based on skin color is no different than voting for someone based on sexual organ. Plain and simple.

That is not what the discussion is about. It's about their willingness to vote for a candidate that goes completely against everything they believe in, and their willingness to stop supporting an organization that has done so much for their cause. And all because they disagree with the organization's endorsement. What you are talking about is, at best, comparable to blue collar white voters voting for Clinton, not this. Unless I missed the memo where John McCain was promoting segregation. Like I already said, Clinton did it to herself. Her support among African Americans was fine 6 months ago.

[Matt]

That is not what the discussion is about. It's about their willingness to vote for a candidate that goes completely against everything they believe in, and their willingness to stop supporting an organization that has done so much for their cause. And all because they disagree with the organization's endorsement. What you are talking about is, at best, comparable to blue collar white voters voting for Clinton, not this. Unless I missed the memo where John McCain was promoting segregation. Like I already said, Clinton did it to herself. Her support among African Americans was fine 6 months ago.

No, that was what the discussion was about, Kaine said:

A feminist shouldn't vote for a woman just because a woman is a canditate. That's pretty much counter-productive to the feminist movement.

And I responded that it is no dumber than voting for skin color. YOU then took it out of context.

[BlackLantern]

I'd vote for you in return for favors determined at a later date. :o

Deal...I mean...I will be happy to have your support...

[souvlaki]

No, that was what the discussion was about, Kaine said:



And I responded that it is no dumber than voting for skin color. YOU then took it out of context.

Well, as I said in my original post, I understand why they support Hillary Clinton, and I understand why they were disappointed by the endorsement. What I don't understand is how childish they reacted. Voting for McCain, and giving up on NARAL is about the most irresponsible thing you can do if abortion rights are that important to you, and it makes these people come off like sore losers.

[souvlaki]

Incidentlly, if the situation was reversed it makes a lot more sense to me if black people were to vote for McCain than if a bunch of pro-choice supporters voted for him. There are plenty of socially conservative black families in this country that vote Democrat just because that's the way they've always voted, same with blue collar workers. That's why I say Hillary's problem with the black vote is similar to Obama's problem with the blue collar workers. Both sides have their reasons for believing the other side slighted them, justified or not. What do self professed feminists that are adamantly pro-choice have to gain from a McCain presidency? Nothing. And I hope every single one of them feels responsible the day McCain appoints the tie breaking judge to the Supreme Court because they couldn't get over their candidate losing. What has Obama ever done to slight that community? Nothing. And if NARAL wants to endorse him, good for them. That's their choice.

[Marx]

And here we...go!

In a preview of the potential political onslaught Michelle Obama may face in the fall, the Tennessee Republican Party unveiled a new Web video Thursday that highlights her controversial comment earlier this year saying she was proud of America "for the first time in my adult life."

The four-minute video coincides with Mrs. Obama's visit to the state for a Democratic Party event later Thursday. It features several Tennesseans saying why they are proud of America while repeatedly cutting to Mrs. Obama's comments.

"The Tennessee Republican Party has always been proud of America. To further honor the occasion of Mrs. Obama’s visit, the Tennessee Republican Party has requested the playing of patriotic music by radio stations across the state," said a statement on the party's Web site that accompanied the video.

"While Mrs. Obama has trouble being proud of the country where she earned degrees from Princeton University and Harvard Law School and then became a multi-millionaire, her husband makes statements that belittle average Americans’ response to the difficulties of life, including his recent statement that, in tough times."

The Obama campaign called the attack "shameful."



For the full article, click below.
Michelle Obama takes heat from Tennessee Republicans
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/05/15/michelle-obama-takes-heat-from-tennessee-republicans/

[Darthphere]

Well, that goes to show just how ridiculous people are. There are people dying in Iraq, our economy is spirally downward fast. People need to stop being so sensitive over such petty crap.

Yes, and these are the people that we will elect in November to fix those problems, making these type of things not "petty crap".:huh:

[Spider-Bite]

No, that was what the discussion was about, Kaine said:



And I responded that it is no dumber than voting for skin color. YOU then took it out of context.


I just want to touch on this and add that I have heard women democrats say they were voting for Hillary because they are kind of old and they would like to see a women acheive that kind of status before they die. not because they are against male presidents or because they think women are more qualified. they'd just like to live to see that. and I've heard blacks say they same about Obama.

I don't know if that is quite so bad. It's kind of natural or human if you say so, however they shouldn't give it too much priority, and most of those I've met don't. These same people did not vote for Sharpton or Carol Mosley Braun in the last election, so obviously they aren't giving it an overwhelming amount of priority.

And many of those who I knew who went for Hillary originally for that reason, have since switched over to Obama, becuase well quite frankly he's the all around better candidate. He's better on foreign policy, energy, gay rights, and on top of all of that, he is at least more honest than she is. If anybody disagrees with that, just listen to her claim she has the popular vote. Listen to her argument on Michigain and Florida, and then look at her support for the gas tax holiday.

Extremely dishonest if you ask me. I almost feel like the slight chance were she to win, I could end up voting for McCain, just because I believe he cares about his country a lot more than she does, and that counts for something.

I probably would vote for Hillary, but it's not a gurantee.

[Spider-Bite]

And here we...go!

In a preview of the potential political onslaught Michelle Obama may face in the fall, the Tennessee Republican Party unveiled a new Web video Thursday that highlights her controversial comment earlier this year saying she was proud of America "for the first time in my adult life."

The four-minute video coincides with Mrs. Obama's visit to the state for a Democratic Party event later Thursday. It features several Tennesseans saying why they are proud of America while repeatedly cutting to Mrs. Obama's comments.

"The Tennessee Republican Party has always been proud of America. To further honor the occasion of Mrs. Obama’s visit, the Tennessee Republican Party has requested the playing of patriotic music by radio stations across the state," said a statement on the party's Web site that accompanied the video.

"While Mrs. Obama has trouble being proud of the country where she earned degrees from Princeton University and Harvard Law School and then became a multi-millionaire, her husband makes statements that belittle average Americans’ response to the difficulties of life, including his recent statement that, in tough times."

The Obama campaign called the attack "shameful."



For the full article, click below.
Michelle Obama takes heat from Tennessee Republicans
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/05/15/michelle-obama-takes-heat-from-tennessee-republicans/


It's easy for me to forgive Michelle Obama for the "first time in my life" comment. The only thing she ever said that got under my skin was the comment towards Hillary "If you can run your own house, you can't run the white house." I thought that was a very unfair blow below the belt. But she's not politically savy. She doesn't have the same coaching, and she's not running for President.

[Matt]

I just want to touch on this and add that I have heard women democrats say they were voting for Hillary because they are kind of old and they would like to see a women acheive that kind of status before they die. not because they are against male presidents or because they think women are more qualified. they'd just like to live to see that. and I've heard blacks say they same about Obama.

I don't know if that is quite so bad. It's kind of natural or human if you say so, however they shouldn't give it too much priority, and most of those I've met don't. These same people did not vote for Sharpton or Carol Mosley Braun in the last election, so obviously they aren't giving it an overwhelming amount of priority.

And many of those who I knew who went for Hillary originally for that reason, have since switched over to Obama, becuase well quite frankly he's the all around better candidate. He's better on foreign policy, energy, gay rights, and on top of all of that, he is at least more honest than she is. If anybody disagrees with that, just listen to her claim she has the popular vote. Listen to her argument on Michigain and Florida, and then look at her support for the gas tax holiday.

Extremely dishonest if you ask me. I almost feel like the slight chance were she to win, I could end up voting for McCain, just because I believe he cares about his country a lot more than she does, and that counts for something.

I probably would vote for Hillary, but it's not a gurantee.

You've never heard a black person say the same? Well, you need look no further than our own Excel.

[The Senator]

Also, Clinton had forty percent of the black vote prior to the South Carolina primary. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me that thirty percent would just get up and support Obama because of the issues.

[Spider-Bite]

You've never heard a black person say the same? Well, you need look no further than our own Excel.


Read again. I said


and I've heard blacks say they same about Obama.


I admit I accidentally put a "y" in there.

[Matt]

Misread, my mistake. No worse than your mistaking the word :"caucus" for "election" in the Clinton thread. :cwink:

[Marx]

Misread, my mistake. No worse than your mistaking the word :"caucus" for "election" in the Clinton thread. :cwink:

OHHHHH snap!






:funny:

[Spider-Bite]

Also, Clinton had forty percent of the black vote prior to the South Carolina primary. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me that thirty percent would just get up and support Obama because of the issues.


I don't deny his color is getting him votes from other blacks, but that number there has no bearing, as Obama's number's have risen in every single voting bloc since this race began.

Back then Obama was an unkown so of course his numbers would have been lower back then.

Fox news as well as Hillary Clinton wants everybody to think that all of Obama's supporters are a bunch of racist reverend Wright worshippers, who wont vote for a white person. That is simply not true. Hell we've always had white presidents winning the white vote, and whites have always come out in bigger numbers. now that we have a black candidate, black voters are getting involved in the process and they now feel better about their place in society.

This could have a positive impact on politics for generations to come. This is not a bad thing. This is a good thing. he has inspired people to care about politics. Even if a lot of them are black, that's okay, because untill now they had a very low turnout. This is one way of looking at it, that media hasn't shown the voters. A positive angle of blacks voting for Obama.

[Matt]

I don't deny his color is getting him votes from other blacks, but that number there has no bearing, as Obama's number's have risen in every single voting bloc since this race began.

Back then Obama was an unkown so of course his numbers would have been lower back then.


Fox news as well as Hillary Clinton wants everybody to think that all of Obama's supporters are a bunch of racist reverend Wright worshippers, who wont vote for a white person. That is simply not true. Hell we've always had white presidents winning the white vote, and whites have always come out in bigger numbers. now that we have a black candidate, black voters are getting involved in the process and they now feel better about their place in society.

This could have a positive impact on politics for generations to come. This is not a bad thing. This is a good thing. he has inspired people to care about politics. Even if a lot of them are black, that's okay, because untill now they had a very low turnout. This is one way of looking at it, that media hasn't shown the voters. A positive angle of blacks voting for Obama.

Spider-Bite, my friend, I love ya, and I'm really stoked to see you hanging around the political forum again, but that is a load of ****. Obama was NEVER unknown. Ever since his 2004 speech the media has been building him up as a presidential hopeful. They tried to make his presidency an inevitability and stroked themselves waiting for the day they could place the crown on his head. 4 years of that, and of course the public will buy into that and know who he is. To say he is an unknown following 2004 is ridiculous.

[Spider-Bite]

Spider-Bite, my friend, I love ya, and I'm really stoked to see you hanging around the political forum again, but that is a load of ****. Obama was NEVER unknown. Ever since his 2004 speech the media has been building him up as a presidential hopeful. They tried to make his presidency an inevitability and stroked themselves waiting for the day they could place the crown on his head. 4 years of that, and of course the public will buy into that and know who he is. To say he is an unknown following 2004 is ridiculous.
Thanks :cwink: I've been gone for a while cause I was in college, but it's summer break, and i'm back home now living in the middle of nowhere with no life again. glad to see a lot of the same people here!

i cant' deny the media bias in his favor. It is strong, however untill rescently most of the voters when polled responded that they didnt' know enough about him. Most people did not watch the Democratic convention, didn't see his speech, or know his name back in 2004. Most people aren't into politics heavily, and while most older American's watch the six oclock news, they don't watch the cable news stations that focus on politics all day.

[Marx]

Spider-Bite, my friend, I love ya, and I'm really stoked to see you hanging around the political forum again, but that is a load of ****. Obama was NEVER unknown. Ever since his 2004 speech the media has been building him up as a presidential hopeful. They tried to make his presidency an inevitability and stroked themselves waiting for the day they could place the crown on his head. 4 years of that, and of course the public will buy into that and know who he is. To say he is an unknown following 2004 is ridiculous.

He was very much known.

[Doomed_hero]

it is not so much that he is unknown inpolitical circles., But voters still know very little about him. Some think he is a anti white muslim bent on destorying the country. And when you put him or almost anyone up against Clinton, well we had 8 years of almost no news but the clintons, so on a personaity and personal note almost anyone is a unknown in that regard when running against Clintons,

[Matt]

They know little about him by his choice. He refuses to play the game, to let voters know who he is. He says it is a "distraction," to talk about that kind of stuff. Ironically, he did not have a platform up until 2 weeks prior to Super Tuesday...so apparently the issues are "distractions," as well.

But seriously, of course voters do not know about Obama. His platform is at best vague. He doesn't really talk about his personal life (in fact, he seems to get annoyed when asked anything about it outside of his campaign's official life story of him). He seems to prefer to focus on buzzwords and intangible concepts. Voters do not know him, but that is by his choice. They do recognize him and have since 2004.

[Excel]

I missed Obamas speech, but remember seeing him on election night in 2004...they were showing some victory and then just cut to this young, energic black dude with his wife, holding his 2 little girls, walking up onto a stage to freaking out crowded with confetti pouring...and I thought "Thats the guy I want to be President"

And here we are today. How far we've come...

:up:

[Marx]

I missed Obamas speech, but remember seeing him on election night in 2004...they were showing some victory and then just cut to this young, energic black dude with his wife, holding his 2 little girls, walking up onto a stage to freaking out crowded with confetti pouring...and I thought "Thats the guy I want to be President"

And here we are today. How far we've come...

:up:

He's not the President yet Ex.

[The Senator]

He's not the President yet Ex.

...because I'm sure he thinks Obama's president :whatever:

[terry78]

He's not the President yet Ex.

This voting and delegates thing is just a formality. It's already an Obama-nation, we just live in it.

[Marx]

...because I'm sure he thinks Obama's president :whatever:

It's Ex, he very well could! (And don't roll your eyes at me. :cwink:)

[Excel]

He's not the President yet Ex.

True, but the fact that he managed to take down Hillary...John McCain shouldn't be too hard :up:

...because I'm sure he thinks Obama's president :whatever:

:up:


It's Ex, he very well could!


Wus dat supposed to mean???? :p

[Marx]

True, but the fact that he managed to take down Hillary...John McCain shouldn't be too hard :up:


I wouldn't underestimate John McCain and the RSM.


Wus dat supposed to mean???? :p

You know what that means! :hehe:

[Matt]

Lighten up Marx, everyone knows Excel does not think Obama is the President.

He thinks he is the Messiah :cwink:

[Marx]

Lighten up Marx, everyone knows Excel does not think Obama is the President.

He thinks he is the Messiah :cwink:

My bad Matt. You're right! :oldrazz:

[Spider-Bite]

They know little about him by his choice. He refuses to play the game, to let voters know who he is. He says it is a "distraction," to talk about that kind of stuff. Ironically, he did not have a platform up until 2 weeks prior to Super Tuesday...so apparently the issues are "distractions," as well.

But seriously, of course voters do not know about Obama. His platform is at best vague. He doesn't really talk about his personal life (in fact, he seems to get annoyed when asked anything about it outside of his campaign's official life story of him). He seems to prefer to focus on buzzwords and intangible concepts. Voters do not know him, but that is by his choice. They do recognize him and have since 2004.

His personal life isn't an issue. Issue are laws, problems, and solutions. These chain emails, and Wright sermons are distractions. He has written two books all about "who he is." Those books weren't about policy they were about ideology. That is very sufficent for who he is. As for the issues, he states his position and how he will vote. That is perfectly fair and adequate.

He never once said Iraq, health care, etc were distractions. Things like his middle name, or Clinton's marriage are distractions from real issues. Does anybody here really give a damn what his name is or whether or not he wore a flag pin?

[Adam]

Obama is better than Hilary. So yeah.

I'm Canadian so I can't vote though :)

[Memphis Slim]

y

Obama gets cross in Kentucky (http://www.onebigdog.net/obama-gets-cross-in-kentucky/)

Posted at 15:37 Category: Political (http://www.onebigdog.net/category/political/) http://www.onebigdog.net/wp-images/obamacross.jpg

Last year around Christmas time (http://linx.chitika.net/sosearch?xargs=ctb4pR9O3j/aete6SHV/4rV4XQ12hzL28XmTJU74pH2ITQkRDQkYdmyqOcM1UrwwTrwJbp xE35/lNKYzjEzzu3dbmPE0JEcc/DpkyLyXsbVHHACgd%2Bq5Hi5LLx%2BB7vItEMOk8KCeWPHPNZQ ejBF8t2PIdR%2BeeCE4aFIWH96QnLVUFjKanalaGMhYlSJlkOX Mw2a1lFAxVpoGFEvlp9n7s3R0LV/Xt2AInycAV5goeOsdxpezoUu1CdbPyk71qe48rS2Hqu560jp5O vHBOoGqVg%3D%3D&q=Christmas%20time) Mike Huckabee put out an ad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xn7uSHtkuA) about the season and honoring Jesus. In the background of the ad was a bookcase and the bookcase formed a cross (http://linx.chitika.net/track?target=http%3A//ypn-120.overture.com/d/sr/%3Fxargs%3DWB9Cf6aKqsBsi5N_6qH5ljH50gTgAgJl4hW-68wvIYHcfcbbRVbJKhZdCFlj0MnwOhb6XY9v0KqA_BlYnPP_bz TmzbJzY6SvaCgfywLf8SldZKtNjBxfpyYA9OJzWRZhO55xmsKg seoeoPKyOSLQ1-eFv_vBzwYt_NnAVsdxBgTcEGjehCb4w8RHVzHbgJyjsoAGuqFV zwNAdtj8QQnmTreUjZ2N3so3Mjct4Iu5T8GUhuLEoWLNdpYmgV gnMOEDfMfFyMdZf6gW075xS_q63llsmoktm3O3cDdQzm5teE13 vnYGzHB59CjPxy6ssCeWo0sCXRlfBW1BBQ711G5B_So6AyzcxK t4kvYN33P_fEjSh6DElhwghE9RN4EWrBx42U7lNO4_vMAMmRfN f8LaLM5X1Fc4clg8UK3ZM1_UYbRHwygMG3_wuAAlSTVg4BMANL AtrP39N7Q%26op%3D1e0bb5b&xargs=jgqi9tRnIEb4%2BSJK/8owqqVydDNjq1PNA0WT7%2BkGnuH%2BgwbXOUSX0vlqu/iwlO2fFB6BlPSoEIKYiOy0Uls9wGudl3L9PDZk/do47u7EGd/kEg3cLhINfEsMhYMFbTZN3rMqrzzXXKxk0Um1WqYdFclB8PaSi 9iHxAVnE2Y0gffJusz2ZLHLV5SUyVZN6nVPUMxLctwro4hBTsi f359TKHgor2FH%2BeHFnFTxI3DWo6/AfDpD36URCFTRmQiTp8KJif9%2BiDTCkNM%3D&keyword=cross). It actually looked more like a plus sign because the horizontal part was in the middle of the vertical part but nonetheless, it was perceived as a cross even though it has ornaments on it. The only reason there was a controversy is because Huckabee is a man of the cloth and conservative and liberals hate Christian symbolism (http://linx.chitika.net/sosearch?xargs=3Xfm/MMkRxDnkQneVXZLkewF0GOgExVLuorS4hzCX7MmGYM78U45cG7 MqBcMgH62zamJ3idYsg/Yq4wZLL3d7a8Z/gnXJ%2BWyebp9ibSZgADXFPgkHJcAMbFTiuWFvrcMH8Qr1UvkB xn7DFWk5YejYu9T1t0AxAy3g%2B4%2Bfn%2BzfimogZOZDq3sp owPb%2BWqjYrkrAtP%2B0CVOLO%2BIMpx9gcaJRU1iMLq7MZ09 SAa2MQkQ4xN2clWR0vdcvRUSaBIBGls2d2pLgzufIs%3D&q=symbolism) (or perceived symbolism) in politics unless they are injecting it.


Liberals (and some conservatives) went nuts over this. How dare this guy bring religion into the political world. This despite the fact that all of them have mentioned God and their beliefs in one fashion or another. Anyway, people thought this was just terrible:Joy Behar [The View] summed the whole thing up with this: “Fine! But let’s just call it what it is. If it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, it’s a duck. It’s an appeal to the Christian right base of the Republican party. The end. That’s it.” The Conservative Voice (http://www.theconservativevoice.com/article/29879.html)

Atheist Michael Newdow on Fox discussing how inappropriate it was (You Tube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5irPLhgUAo)).

First off, let’s all agree how fun it was to see TV blowhards like Chris Matthews and Meredith Vieira come unhinged over the possibility that the infamous bookshelf in the background of Gov. Huckabee’s Christmas TV message was a sinister attempt to subliminally brainwash dopey Americans into seeing a (gasp!) cross. TownHall (http://www.townhall.com/columnists/MikeGallagher/2007/12/21/huckabees_cross)
There are plenty of examples of the moronic reaction to the so called cross. Google “Huckabee cross” and you will find quite a few items about it. Remember, it caused such a controversy that Huckabee had to defend it and tell people it was a bookcase.

Now enter Barack Hussein Obama (http://linx.chitika.net/track?target=http%3A//ypn-120.overture.com/d/sr/%3Fxargs%3DjoMEciL-iTAfCrmsJ0NOdkYyEWO5YKcimhYhwGykjj-4mA2mq8nkZ8EgyzcUzgJnUq0EKbWF-fHSTkdnF9sFcGUtUax9mLZVwUmsyZ23SHaHomN1XG5eDz0QbZV umZZTSkjoJ2ax-4tJrBW32lnmxzn6G-Omgby1WXsz4QubCYGAvzqybgSdEF43DfmuusyTP-mZYHSQhR7oBMp89LWVF-_0DVH8AcaV27d44ZTIxwMSXTaw7A3hv0lsKPmvEEsXw7Uyc253 j1b9eLFak11PNdbjjQhnl-vxZ_Sk7l1HUeh5T4RtSwDoDBzbstKYm6DS28bRFOn_uhtbs6Tj 0xEBN2DJS4rbeFP09k_dS2Fb64kQBeQFTLzSBf2ZVbdTnwMglh IY_uoaI0mDyfRafGfzlDLcnnZp_SzkhR2gOdNUrD0znlsOtz_k USn4Wu7fw1JMSgks66IX7uI%26op%3D1e0bb5b&xargs=0DeAA0aBVAFCpkMHM4bGOfsfCDFW6amj8pC9WGb2sZwt 3s/Mojo5CtYSDsB/JIs8POeAL1P6gWLtFLxm1ifTuC6NN90j/Fcg0E49sAyJvXUMqoeC4tkF9V/qrqXUwg18/aTop2%2BgKO8%2B7FGDlOolqnvEu/p018G/CqokToUjTqg%2BdBs2k3IxP/HirRc8GEFhusF7NLhssovjvFY60ZsW9BvOsrdUCkb7aJdX97CI qpOr1LYPl9G1ECJD0CqxVB7fKzqRooYpCUo%3D&keyword=Obama), the presumptive nominee for the Democratic party, and see what he is spreading around Kentucky (http://linx.chitika.net/sosearch?xargs=rqKSUkgFB713dYollqPmUeO7kNryDyB8buq bIAtixOKZsOSYSDg8bMZWBX8U6M1jeuJhHwOzxLh8a2sKXjvAJ EjyzF%2BSW71/PWKU9FWh%2BtkmY6rr1kU87AVMEleH0sX7Vtq/IueT09J1toNy5JeHIwCm9Sq93P0ZqVDDRMcsWjdJjmusmLbW4X Q7bubmIV70IDm64jSxaxoerFnCPeZ1AI2MZ5tjY870rHbpM2om 0VOOy5b5SmON1KsQDOlccwjTVGhrN7Btqd8%3D&q=Kentucky). The picture at the top of this post is a campaign flyer that talks about Obama being a Christian and it shows him standing with a cross behind him. :whatever:This is not an image, or a bookcase, or any other item that can be mistaken for a cross, it is an actual cross.

The questions now become, will Joy Behar call this what it is, a direct (http://linx.chitika.net/track?target=http%3A//ypn-120.overture.com/d/sr/%3Fxargs%3DUf5HaabKIbHVuUjtwi69GGS6WpjoN2hyX93ICrg XETwAU3MqU8qS6zR30BnTaCAFip8U1FsyjvKTFoCqGlCdma6c3 ZRDN4JqEGcky9ba61xMA2vB8u6maXf3Gj3c6rOP6wmoslIInhW 6AoA828kacWHK6byQQA9a9LWLPrR6n71uhkIn2WP46rzhEPMrq W7DIxr6VZ024sxIkobI8us4BSHdH64HSxcWFKH0k4xHXkC_Xav Q217rMEaipQfWu7-2GERjyxf2JtEl2B4FkRe1jatL2vzkG2MuZWfPta2ra9twHy_H0 iQe1kWUG8loE2qy7S7Hum7pw1Z0Fvr5hdR8oKbGaeb3lRYZ6W1 MydaujurUfd6y4Aviu-Qb_k7peAMRwGk_5WdqqGiWhtOO8bnuunJKOEkcz1-KI4Nt_0QxCzpGKdGBrgkyk4CVLWX1zNVkkpclMUIi4LU%26op% 3D1e0bb5b&xargs=CZYZE9dX6A7mTayBjMBTikSTsxhMketnpQ%2BwaKGY7c 16yOqn0kKClsgRoa96LEZohF8V8u2QcvgdBIh8JMjiMPYckShY NBllhVvmrH0tABIAcNESyBs%2BrAs5IY05XLYxpOac6DKCBkUs/ERiMHQAr6ABfJgOhQ0VfVJaknogqTClqR6ueyqIPML%2B6UeIQ iL3hYT4IKQgUf81zUM8e6Clr7lakybN8RyuCaMfcTeY49dT8H5 JKe75GVS01JEICE8uziXFVMn%2BA3U%3D&keyword=direct) appeal to the Christian right base of the Republican party? Will Micheal Newdow make the TV circuit telling everyone that he, as an atheist, finds it offensive and that it is inappropriate? Will Matthews, Vieira and all the other liberal political pundits who are in the tank for Obama come unhinged over this blatant display of religion? Will this cross require Obama to explain what he thinks he is doing by displaying an item that is so offensive to the left?

You can bet that very few of the people in the media, and certainly not the idiots who criticized Huckabee, will mention it. Those who do will excuse it in some fashion and say that Obama is reaching out. They will say he is crossing lines, he is deeply spiritual and deem it to be perfectly OK. They will give it their seal of approval because, to them, Obama is the messiah. Can we say hypocrites? :yay:
Yes we can.

http://www.onebigdog.net/obama-gets-cross-in-kentucky/

Man!! What a frikkin' double standards libs play.........it's sickening. :dry:

[Darkdd]

^Well, certain demographics still think he is Muslim, so I think he is just trying to put the issue to rest once and for all.

[Matt]

His personal life isn't an issue. Issue are laws, problems, and solutions. These chain emails, and Wright sermons are distractions. He has written two books all about "who he is." Those books weren't about policy they were about ideology. That is very sufficent for who he is. As for the issues, he states his position and how he will vote. That is perfectly fair and adequate.

He never once said Iraq, health care, etc were distractions. Things like his middle name, or Clinton's marriage are distractions from real issues. Does anybody here really give a damn what his name is or whether or not he wore a flag pin?

My problem with the flag thing is, not so much that he won't wear it, but why the hell not just put it on to shut people up? If primaries are meant to be a test of how electable a candidate is in the general election...how can I really vote for a man who won't just put on a goddamn pin instead of allowing it to become such a massive issue?

[Spider-Bite]

My problem with the flag thing is, not so much that he won't wear it, but why the hell not just put it on to shut people up? If primaries are meant to be a test of how electable a candidate is in the general election...how can I really vote for a man who won't just put on a goddamn pin instead of allowing it to become such a massive issue?


well on the flag pin there are a few different angles

1. by not wearing it, he created a distraction, and then turned around and complained about distractions

2. doing what he feels in his heart instead of what looks best for getting elected, which is a big part of his appeal at the same time

However in the last few days he has begun wearing one, and I'm sure it is to shut people up.

[The Senator]

y

Obama gets cross in Kentucky (http://www.onebigdog.net/obama-gets-cross-in-kentucky/)

Posted at 15:37 Category: Political (http://www.onebigdog.net/category/political/) http://www.onebigdog.net/wp-images/obamacross.jpg

Last year around Christmas time (http://linx.chitika.net/sosearch?xargs=ctb4pR9O3j/aete6SHV/4rV4XQ12hzL28XmTJU74pH2ITQkRDQkYdmyqOcM1UrwwTrwJbp xE35/lNKYzjEzzu3dbmPE0JEcc/DpkyLyXsbVHHACgd%2Bq5Hi5LLx%2BB7vItEMOk8KCeWPHPNZQ ejBF8t2PIdR%2BeeCE4aFIWH96QnLVUFjKanalaGMhYlSJlkOX Mw2a1lFAxVpoGFEvlp9n7s3R0LV/Xt2AInycAV5goeOsdxpezoUu1CdbPyk71qe48rS2Hqu560jp5O vHBOoGqVg%3D%3D&q=Christmas%20time) Mike Huckabee put out an ad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xn7uSHtkuA) about the season and honoring Jesus. In the background of the ad was a bookcase and the bookcase formed a cross (http://linx.chitika.net/track?target=http%3A//ypn-120.overture.com/d/sr/%3Fxargs%3DWB9Cf6aKqsBsi5N_6qH5ljH50gTgAgJl4hW-68wvIYHcfcbbRVbJKhZdCFlj0MnwOhb6XY9v0KqA_BlYnPP_bz TmzbJzY6SvaCgfywLf8SldZKtNjBxfpyYA9OJzWRZhO55xmsKg seoeoPKyOSLQ1-eFv_vBzwYt_NnAVsdxBgTcEGjehCb4w8RHVzHbgJyjsoAGuqFV zwNAdtj8QQnmTreUjZ2N3so3Mjct4Iu5T8GUhuLEoWLNdpYmgV gnMOEDfMfFyMdZf6gW075xS_q63llsmoktm3O3cDdQzm5teE13 vnYGzHB59CjPxy6ssCeWo0sCXRlfBW1BBQ711G5B_So6AyzcxK t4kvYN33P_fEjSh6DElhwghE9RN4EWrBx42U7lNO4_vMAMmRfN f8LaLM5X1Fc4clg8UK3ZM1_UYbRHwygMG3_wuAAlSTVg4BMANL AtrP39N7Q%26op%3D1e0bb5b&xargs=jgqi9tRnIEb4%2BSJK/8owqqVydDNjq1PNA0WT7%2BkGnuH%2BgwbXOUSX0vlqu/iwlO2fFB6BlPSoEIKYiOy0Uls9wGudl3L9PDZk/do47u7EGd/kEg3cLhINfEsMhYMFbTZN3rMqrzzXXKxk0Um1WqYdFclB8PaSi 9iHxAVnE2Y0gffJusz2ZLHLV5SUyVZN6nVPUMxLctwro4hBTsi f359TKHgor2FH%2BeHFnFTxI3DWo6/AfDpD36URCFTRmQiTp8KJif9%2BiDTCkNM%3D&keyword=cross). It actually looked more like a plus sign because the horizontal part was in the middle of the vertical part but nonetheless, it was perceived as a cross even though it has ornaments on it. The only reason there was a controversy is because Huckabee is a man of the cloth and conservative and liberals hate Christian symbolism (http://linx.chitika.net/sosearch?xargs=3Xfm/MMkRxDnkQneVXZLkewF0GOgExVLuorS4hzCX7MmGYM78U45cG7 MqBcMgH62zamJ3idYsg/Yq4wZLL3d7a8Z/gnXJ%2BWyebp9ibSZgADXFPgkHJcAMbFTiuWFvrcMH8Qr1UvkB xn7DFWk5YejYu9T1t0AxAy3g%2B4%2Bfn%2BzfimogZOZDq3sp owPb%2BWqjYrkrAtP%2B0CVOLO%2BIMpx9gcaJRU1iMLq7MZ09 SAa2MQkQ4xN2clWR0vdcvRUSaBIBGls2d2pLgzufIs%3D&q=symbolism) (or perceived symbolism) in politics unless they are injecting it.


Liberals (and some conservatives) went nuts over this. How dare this guy bring religion into the political world. This despite the fact that all of them have mentioned God and their beliefs in one fashion or another. Anyway, people thought this was just terrible:Joy Behar [The View] summed the whole thing up with this: “Fine! But let’s just call it what it is. If it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, it’s a duck. It’s an appeal to the Christian right base of the Republican party. The end. That’s it.” The Conservative Voice (http://www.theconservativevoice.com/article/29879.html)

Atheist Michael Newdow on Fox discussing how inappropriate it was (You Tube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5irPLhgUAo)).

First off, let’s all agree how fun it was to see TV blowhards like Chris Matthews and Meredith Vieira come unhinged over the possibility that the infamous bookshelf in the background of Gov. Huckabee’s Christmas TV message was a sinister attempt to subliminally brainwash dopey Americans into seeing a (gasp!) cross. TownHall (http://www.townhall.com/columnists/MikeGallagher/2007/12/21/huckabees_cross)
There are plenty of examples of the moronic reaction to the so called cross. Google “Huckabee cross” and you will find quite a few items about it. Remember, it caused such a controversy that Huckabee had to defend it and tell people it was a bookcase.

Now enter Barack Hussein Obama (http://linx.chitika.net/track?target=http%3A//ypn-120.overture.com/d/sr/%3Fxargs%3DjoMEciL-iTAfCrmsJ0NOdkYyEWO5YKcimhYhwGykjj-4mA2mq8nkZ8EgyzcUzgJnUq0EKbWF-fHSTkdnF9sFcGUtUax9mLZVwUmsyZ23SHaHomN1XG5eDz0QbZV umZZTSkjoJ2ax-4tJrBW32lnmxzn6G-Omgby1WXsz4QubCYGAvzqybgSdEF43DfmuusyTP-mZYHSQhR7oBMp89LWVF-_0DVH8AcaV27d44ZTIxwMSXTaw7A3hv0lsKPmvEEsXw7Uyc253 j1b9eLFak11PNdbjjQhnl-vxZ_Sk7l1HUeh5T4RtSwDoDBzbstKYm6DS28bRFOn_uhtbs6Tj 0xEBN2DJS4rbeFP09k_dS2Fb64kQBeQFTLzSBf2ZVbdTnwMglh IY_uoaI0mDyfRafGfzlDLcnnZp_SzkhR2gOdNUrD0znlsOtz_k USn4Wu7fw1JMSgks66IX7uI%26op%3D1e0bb5b&xargs=0DeAA0aBVAFCpkMHM4bGOfsfCDFW6amj8pC9WGb2sZwt 3s/Mojo5CtYSDsB/JIs8POeAL1P6gWLtFLxm1ifTuC6NN90j/Fcg0E49sAyJvXUMqoeC4tkF9V/qrqXUwg18/aTop2%2BgKO8%2B7FGDlOolqnvEu/p018G/CqokToUjTqg%2BdBs2k3IxP/HirRc8GEFhusF7NLhssovjvFY60ZsW9BvOsrdUCkb7aJdX97CI qpOr1LYPl9G1ECJD0CqxVB7fKzqRooYpCUo%3D&keyword=Obama), the presumptive nominee for the Democratic party, and see what he is spreading around Kentucky (http://linx.chitika.net/sosearch?xargs=rqKSUkgFB713dYollqPmUeO7kNryDyB8buq bIAtixOKZsOSYSDg8bMZWBX8U6M1jeuJhHwOzxLh8a2sKXjvAJ EjyzF%2BSW71/PWKU9FWh%2BtkmY6rr1kU87AVMEleH0sX7Vtq/IueT09J1toNy5JeHIwCm9Sq93P0ZqVDDRMcsWjdJjmusmLbW4X Q7bubmIV70IDm64jSxaxoerFnCPeZ1AI2MZ5tjY870rHbpM2om 0VOOy5b5SmON1KsQDOlccwjTVGhrN7Btqd8%3D&q=Kentucky). The picture at the top of this post is a campaign flyer that talks about Obama being a Christian and it shows him standing with a cross behind him. :whatever:This is not an image, or a bookcase, or any other item that can be mistaken for a cross, it is an actual cross.

The questions now become, will Joy Behar call this what it is, a direct (http://linx.chitika.net/track?target=http%3A//ypn-120.overture.com/d/sr/%3Fxargs%3DUf5HaabKIbHVuUjtwi69GGS6WpjoN2hyX93ICrg XETwAU3MqU8qS6zR30BnTaCAFip8U1FsyjvKTFoCqGlCdma6c3 ZRDN4JqEGcky9ba61xMA2vB8u6maXf3Gj3c6rOP6wmoslIInhW 6AoA828kacWHK6byQQA9a9LWLPrR6n71uhkIn2WP46rzhEPMrq W7DIxr6VZ024sxIkobI8us4BSHdH64HSxcWFKH0k4xHXkC_Xav Q217rMEaipQfWu7-2GERjyxf2JtEl2B4FkRe1jatL2vzkG2MuZWfPta2ra9twHy_H0 iQe1kWUG8loE2qy7S7Hum7pw1Z0Fvr5hdR8oKbGaeb3lRYZ6W1 MydaujurUfd6y4Aviu-Qb_k7peAMRwGk_5WdqqGiWhtOO8bnuunJKOEkcz1-KI4Nt_0QxCzpGKdGBrgkyk4CVLWX1zNVkkpclMUIi4LU%26op% 3D1e0bb5b&xargs=CZYZE9dX6A7mTayBjMBTikSTsxhMketnpQ%2BwaKGY7c 16yOqn0kKClsgRoa96LEZohF8V8u2QcvgdBIh8JMjiMPYckShY NBllhVvmrH0tABIAcNESyBs%2BrAs5IY05XLYxpOac6DKCBkUs/ERiMHQAr6ABfJgOhQ0VfVJaknogqTClqR6ueyqIPML%2B6UeIQ iL3hYT4IKQgUf81zUM8e6Clr7lakybN8RyuCaMfcTeY49dT8H5 JKe75GVS01JEICE8uziXFVMn%2BA3U%3D&keyword=direct) appeal to the Christian right base of the Republican party? Will Micheal Newdow make the TV circuit telling everyone that he, as an atheist, finds it offensive and that it is inappropriate? Will Matthews, Vieira and all the other liberal political pundits who are in the tank for Obama come unhinged over this blatant display of religion? Will this cross require Obama to explain what he thinks he is doing by displaying an item that is so offensive to the left?

You can bet that very few of the people in the media, and certainly not the idiots who criticized Huckabee, will mention it. Those who do will excuse it in some fashion and say that Obama is reaching out. They will say he is crossing lines, he is deeply spiritual and deem it to be perfectly OK. They will give it their seal of approval because, to them, Obama is the messiah. Can we say hypocrites? :yay:
Yes we can.

http://www.onebigdog.net/obama-gets-cross-in-kentucky/

Man!! What a frikkin' double standards libs play.........it's sickening. :dry:

All of Obama's critics seem to show a double standard themselves. First they want him to pander to audiences, because "that's how the game is played," then they go ape**** when he does pander to them because he didn't pander well enough. And considering 15% of voters still think Obama is a Muslim-- and I'm guessing a significant chunk of those voters come from states like Kentucky-- it makes perfect sense that he stood up in front of a cross and tried to show voters his faith.

[Memphis Slim]

^Well, certain demographics still think he is Muslim, so I think he is just trying to put the issue to rest once and for all.


So it's okay......:whatever:

wow..

[The Senator]

So it's okay......:whatever:

wow..

What did you think when Mike Huckabee invoked the cross in his campaign ad last year? Because if you aren't criticizing Huckabee for pandering, then you have no reason to criticize Obama for doing the same thing.

[Memphis Slim]

What did you think when Mike Huckabee invoked the cross in his campaign ad last year? Because if you aren't criticizing Huckabee for pandering, then you have no reason to criticize Obama for doing the same thing.


It wasn't even a cross........you could see the Christmas bulbs lying on the shelves...... it was book shelf. But anytime a GOP talks about his faith, he's accused of being a bigot.

And the issue is why don't "YOU" have a problem with Obama evoking a "REAL" cross especially after you dogged Huckabee for a "suspected" cross???

[Matt]

Y'know how in Peter Pan, if you tell Tinker Bell "I don't believe in fairies," she dies? Think it would work with Slim? Like, he'll go away? I don't believe in CellSlim!

[The Senator]

It wasn't even a cross........you could see the Christmas bulbs lying on the shelves...... it was book shelf. But anytime a GOP talks about his faith, he's accused of being a bigot.

And the issue is why don't "YOU" have a problem with Obama evoking a "REAL" cross especially after you dogged Huckabee for a "suspected" cross???

Here's the thing: I never "dogged" Huckabee for that cross. I don't care if Huckabee invoked the cross or not, because he was doing exactly what all politicians do: He was pandering. I don't have to buy into that brand of bull **** if I don't want to, but if that sort of ad is needed to win over a certain demographic, then so be it.

Of course, I have a problem when people have double standards for certain kinds of pandering. If Huckabee invokes a "suspected" cross, that's perfectly fine for you, but if Obama invokes a real cross, why, that's going over the edge, isn't it? Why does it matter to you? Don't you want the candidates promoting Christian values? Or is he lying, because he's a secret Muslim and all? :huh:

[souvlaki]

^Well, certain demographics still think he is Muslim, so I think he is just trying to put the issue to rest once and for all.

Exactly. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. I guess people just assume the better of people, but some people are just too dense to understand he's Christian without him shoving it in their face, so good on him. He needs to get past this stupid "Muslim" rumor sooner rather than later, and it's sad it's gotten the point that he literally has to spell it out for some people in such blatant terms.

[TripleR]

Exactly. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. I guess people just assume the better of people, but some people are just too dense to understand he's Christian without him shoving it in their face, so good on him. He needs to get past this stupid "Muslim" rumor sooner rather than later, and it's sad it's gotten the point that he literally has to spell it out for some people in such blatant terms.

I couldn't agree more. On The Daily Show last night they showed some interviews from West Virginia asking people why they voted for Hillary and people actually brought up that Muslim rumor and his middle name. There is nothing wrong with using a cross in a picture as an attempt to try to get ignorant people like that to understand he's a Christian.

[Darthphere]

Y'know how in Peter Pan, if you tell Tinker Bell "I don't believe in fairies," she dies? Think it would work with Slim? Like, he'll go away? I don't believe in CellSlim!

You fool! That only makes him stronger!

"Obama? More like Osama!"

"Only a muslim can be named Obama!"

"He's a fake christian!"

"Obama hates America because he won't wear a pin!"

"He didn't put his hand on his heart during the national anthem, terrorist!"

"He wants to talk to Iran, he must want us to get A-Bombed, filthy Muslim!"

STOP IT MATT!:csad:

[souvlaki]

I couldn't agree more. On The Daily Show last night they showed some interviews from West Virginia asking people why they voted for Hillary and people actually brought up that Muslim rumor and his middle name. There is nothing wrong with using a cross in a picture as an attempt to try to get ignorant people like that to understand he's a Christian.

Exactly, and to be perfectly honest I think that was what was behind the flyer in the first place. I was almost positive the Muslim issue was a thing of the past, and I think Obama did too. Then West Virginia came along...

[Memphis Slim]

wow.....
hey...what did I expect....It's a liberal leaning message board.:woot:

[The Senator]

wow.....
hey...what did I expect....It's a liberal leaning message board.:woot:

Seriously, you're the only conservative on this board who can't engage in a civil debate... so you get what you put in apparently...

[TripleR]

It's not like I defend it just because Obama is doing it, but didn't when Huckabee supposedly put that cross in as a subliminal message or whatever. I didn't think that it was an issue then just like I don't think it should be an issue now. I don't think it's hypocritical because I couldn' have cared less when Huckabee did it, we knew he was religious, why be suprised or shocked if he used a cross, and now I don't think it's bad either since again Obama is just a religious person, and he does need to try to get that message across since so many people still think he's a Muslim and they are holding that against him.

[Spider-Bite]

It's not like I defend it just because Obama is doing it, but didn't when Huckabee supposedly put that cross in as a subliminal message or whatever. I didn't think that it was an issue then just like I don't think it should be an issue now. I don't think it's hypocritical because I couldn' have cared less when Huckabee did it, we knew he was religious, why be suprised or shocked if he used a cross, and now I don't think it's bad either since again Obama is just a religious person, and he does need to try to get that message across since so many people still think he's a Muslim and they are holding that against him.
did he actually put a subliminal cross in a message?

[Memphis Slim]

Seriously, you're the only conservative on this board who can't engage in a civil debate... so you get what you put in apparently...


How have I been uncivil?:yay:

[The Senator]

How have I been uncivil?:yay:

I think by tossing out ignorant accusations imlying that myself or other posters are crazy liberals who went bat**** insane over the Huckabee ad is a start... I don't know if it has anything to do with incivility so much as a sign of blatant ignorance...

[TripleR]

did he actually put a subliminal cross in a message?

Some people think he did, it was an ad during the Christmas season where he was talking about the true spirit of the season and Jesus, and in the background there was a bookcase with some decorations and stuff on it that some people say looked like a cross.

I thought the whole thing was silly. Huckabee is known to be very religious, he was talking about Christmas and Jesus, did a cross (whether you think it was on purpose or not) in the background really make it too religious and put it over the line?

[Matt]

You fool! That only makes him stronger!

"Obama? More like Osama!"

"Only a muslim can be named Obama!"

"He's a fake christian!"

"Obama hates America because he won't wear a pin!"

"He didn't put his hand on his heart during the national anthem, terrorist!"

"He wants to talk to Iran, he must want us to get A-Bombed, filthy Muslim!"

STOP IT MATT!:csad:

WHAT HAVE I DONE!?!? :csad:

[Spider-Bite]

Some people think he did, it was an ad during the Christmas season where he was talking about the true spirit of the season and Jesus, and in the background there was a bookcase with some decorations and stuff on it that some people say looked like a cross.

I thought the whole thing was silly. Huckabee is known to be very religious, he was talking about Christmas and Jesus, did a cross (whether you think it was on purpose or not) in the background really make it too religious and put it over the line?

Depends on whether or not it was subliminal really.

[Spider-Bite]

WHAT HAVE I DONE!?!? :csad:

Did you really get caught up in the "is he a Christain or a Muslim" hooplah?

And did you really think there was somethign sinister behind his support for diplomecy and negotiations with Iran?

If he was secretly on Iran's side, he'd have supported the Iraq war from the beginning, instead of opposing it from the beginning, and before anybody points to the fact that he didn't have a vote on it, he did go on the record opposing it, prior to the authorization bill being passed, despite the fact that it was politically unpopular.

[TripleR]

Depends on whether or not it was subliminal really.

Well unless Huckabee comes out and admits that it was put there on purpose we really can't know for sure.

If the message was purely political then yea it would be wrong to try and sneak that in, but the whole message was already Christmas and Jesus based if I remember correctly, so having a cross there wasn't adding a new dimension to it either way, the entire message pandered to that base anyway, the cross being hidden there or not didn't make it any more Christian IMO.

[The Senator]

Did you really get caught up in the "is he a Christain or a Muslim" hooplah?

And did you really think there was somethign sinister behind his support for diplomecy and negotiations with Iran?

If he was secretly on Iran's side, he'd have supported the Iraq war from the beginning, instead of opposing it from the beginning, and before anybody points to the fact that he didn't have a vote on it, he did go on the record opposing it, prior to the authorization bill being passed, despite the fact that it was politically unpopular.

Ummm... what? :huh:

[Matt]

wow.....
hey...what did I expect....It's a liberal leaning message board.:woot:

Its not. It is a superhero message board. The board nor its administration has no leanings. The population may be left leaning but that is to be expected as again, it is a superhero message board. A lot of young people occupy it due to the subject matter. Young people tend to lean left.

[Matt]

Did you really get caught up in the "is he a Christain or a Muslim" hooplah?

And did you really think there was somethign sinister behind his support for diplomecy and negotiations with Iran?

If he was secretly on Iran's side, he'd have supported the Iraq war from the beginning, instead of opposing it from the beginning, and before anybody points to the fact that he didn't have a vote on it, he did go on the record opposing it, prior to the authorization bill being passed, despite the fact that it was politically unpopular.

umm...we were just joking about my comments regarding Slim. :huh: First you take a conversation about caucuses out of context and think we are discussing elections, now this? Gotta get you're head in the game Bite, ol' buddy. :cwink:

[Spider-Bite]

Its not. It is a superhero message board. The board nor its administration has no leanings. The population may be left leaning but that is to be expected as again, it is a superhero message board. A lot of young people occupy it due to the subject matter. Young people tend to lean left.

Well Superheroes tend to be more humanitrian and liberalism has a more humanitarian ring to it, than conservatism. I know Republicans here will be offended and insist that isn't true, but it is. If were going to be realistic and honest than we have to admit that.

[Spider-Bite]

umm...we were just joking about my comments regarding Slim. :huh: First you take a conversation about caucuses out of context and think we are discussing elections, now this? Gotta get you're head in the game Bite, ol' buddy. :cwink:

I honestly wasn't sure, because I haven't been here in a while, and before I left the boards I remembered you going on about his church, and saying you thought he might have been pretending to be a Christain so he could run for president.

Plus I know so many people who actually think he's an Islamic terrorist trying to infiltrate the White House.

[Spider-Bite]

Well unless Huckabee comes out and admits that it was put there on purpose we really can't know for sure.

If the message was purely political then yea it would be wrong to try and sneak that in, but the whole message was already Christmas and Jesus based if I remember correctly, so having a cross there wasn't adding a new dimension to it either way, the entire message pandered to that base anyway, the cross being hidden there or not didn't make it any more Christian IMO.


Subliminal would still be a dishonest way to get Christains to pick him, whether it's purely political or not.

[Matt]

I honestly wasn't sure, because I haven't been here in a while, and before I left the boards I remembered you going on about his church, and saying you thought he might have been pretending to be a Christain so he could run for president.

Plus I know so many people who actually think he's an Islamic terrorist trying to infiltrate the White House.

I never implied or claimed that he was a Muslim. I simply claimed he may share some of Wright's beliefs being as he went to Wright's sermons for 20 years.

[Spider-Bite]

I never implied or claimed that he was a Muslim. I simply claimed he may share some of Wright's beliefs being as he went to Wright's sermons for 20 years.

Do you agree with everything your reverend always said? Does every member of the black church agree with Wright?

He wasn't even raised by his parents. He was raised by his white grandparents. It couldn't be more obvious that he disagrees with him, if him and Wright got in a fist fight.

I'm not just saying this, but we all know we have somebody we disagree with, whom we still care about, but as soon as the black guy is close to somebody like that, we automatically presume guilty by association. Wright is racist and not just against whites, but jewish people too. And you know how Obama is part white? He's actually part Jewish. He isn't any more black than he is white, but people allow paranoia and stereotypes to fill them with fear, and assume he's out to get the white people. They might not do it on purpose, and they might not realize that racial motivation is behind their negative views towars Obama, but it is.

if you think Obama isn't being treated unfairly by society because of his color, than just look at the teeny tiny reaction to McCain's Pastur's comments. McCain didn't get hit nearly as hard.

[souvlaki]

Oh God, no... Not this argument again.

Late or not, Obama has done all he can do to distance himself from Rev. Wright. Either accept it or move on and vote for McCain, vote third party, or don't vote at all. But people should stop acting like Obama hasn't taken about every step he can to distance himself from his pastor. Far more than McCain has done with his own.

[Spider-Bite]

Oh God, no... Not this argument again.

Late or not, Obama has done all he can do to distance himself from Rev. Wright. Either accept it or move on and vote for McCain, vote third party, or don't vote at all.


The thing is that he shouldn't even really have to distance himself. My grandfather is a racist homophobe, and my uncle is a racist. Since I'm not, does that mean I have to distance myself from them? Or can I disagree with them, while still caring about them?

And before anybody says I'm not in politics, I am in college majoring in journalism, minoring in political science, so that I can be a political advisor.

[souvlaki]

The thing is that he shouldn't even really have to distance himself. My grandfather is a racist homophobe, and my uncle is a racist. Since I'm not, does that mean I have to distance myself from them? Or can I disagree with them, while still caring about them?

Well, that's always been my feeling on it, but I understand why he needed to do it... especially when Rev. Wright went on his little crazy rant a few weeks ago. But I'm finding more and more people upset over Obama's reaction to Rev. Wright already disliked Obama in the first place, and were just looking for a good enough reason to not vote for him. Nothing Obama says about it is going to be good enough for those people, so you might as well just argue with a brick wall.

[The Senator]

Do you agree with everything your reverend always said? Does every member of the black church agree with Wright?

That really isn't the issue, as far as I'm concerned. It's a question of whether or not Obama exercised the best judgment when dealing with this situation. Wright had been on public record saying some of these comments before Obama ran for Senate. As a result, Obama's campaign should have known that hiring Wright as their top spiritual adviser was a bad idea only waiting to explode in their face.

When the media made a deal about Wright's comments, Obama should have kicked him off the campaign and said "I strongly disagree with this man's comments." Instead, he laughed off what Wright said as something a "crazy uncle" would say. Then when the media continued to hound him for it, he turned the Wright issue into a lecture on race. He ignored the entire problem; this wasn't an issue about race relations, this was a question of Obama's judgment.

On top of that, he spent several more weeks drawing attention to himself by refusing to answer the public's questions about this man. Granted, I don't believe Obama agrees with Wright on everything he said, but as a politician, Obama should have known that this was going to be a nightmare for his campaign. He tried not making this an issue, which made it an even bigger issue, which forced him to strongly reject Wright's comments over a month after they became such a huge deal.

While I believe his apology was sufficient, I feel that the way he handled this situation was Dukakis-esque and could have been a true PR nightmare for his campaign. Hell, it still is, in some ways, especially since many pundits and political campaign committees are unwilling to let it go.


He wasn't even raised by his parents. He was raised by his white grandparents. It couldn't be more obvious that he disagrees with him, if him and Wright got in a fist fight.

That has nothing to do with the price of bread in Austria. He still hired Wright knowing full well what kind of vicious things Wright said about white folks.


I'm not just saying this, but we all know we have somebody we disagree with, whom we still care about, but as soon as the black guy is close to somebody like that, we automatically presume guilty by association.

I think that's an audacious thing to say, frankly. There are African Americans who are more successful than I am, who make more money than me and have better jobs than I have... yet if I said that the black man serves to keep the white man down, the words 'racist' would be permanently branded across my forehead not a moment after I uttered the last word of that sentence. I don't care what race he is-- any negative comments towards any race in this country serves to divide, not to unite, therefore completely refuting Obama's message of "unity."

Also, the difference between 'ordinary' people with controversial friends and the Obama/ Wright relationship is simple: Obama's running for President. He's running to represent the interests of all Americans. So associating yourself with someone who says downright retarded things such as "the white man created AIDS to kill black people" is entirely divisive and deserves to be scrutinized. I could care less who John Smith from Tuscaloosa, Alabama is friends with; I do care who Obama is friends with, and more importantly, I care what kind of a role he gives those friends in his campaign.

Wright is racist and not just against whites, but jewish people too. And you know how Obama is part white? He's actually part Jewish. He isn't any more black than he is white, but people allow paranoia and stereotypes to fill them with fear, and assume he's out to get the white people. They might not do it on purpose, and they might not realize that racial motivation is behind their negative views towars Obama, but it is.

if you think Obama isn't being treated unfairly by society because of his color, than just look at the teeny tiny reaction to McCain's Pastur's comments. McCain didn't get hit nearly as hard.

None of this has to do with Obama's race. It has everything to do with his pastor's racist comments, and Obama's lapsed judgment.

[The Senator]

The thing is that he shouldn't even really have to distance himself. My grandfather is a racist homophobe, and my uncle is a racist. Since I'm not, does that mean I have to distance myself from them? Or can I disagree with them, while still caring about them?

And before anybody says I'm not in politics, I am in college majoring in journalism, minoring in political science, so that I can be a political advisor.

My grandfather made an ill comment about African Americans once at a family gathering, and I told him he would apologize for saying that or else I would leave. He apologized. My grandfather isn't a bigot by any means, but I won't stand for retarded, divisive comments like that. I had friends in high school who said ill things about gays and non-whites; I don't associate with them anymore. I have limited contact with certain family members who act the same way. You can choose to disassociate yourself from these people. Tell them to get their act together, or you want nothing to do with them on a face-to-face basis.

The fact that you're sort of in politics and say these sort of things makes me wonder what kind of naivety is being brought into the field.

[souvlaki]

And here we go again.

Can someone just post a link to like page 50 of this thread where we spent pages and pages of going around in circles over this? Reading the same posts over and over again makes me feel like I'm stuck in some sort of time warp whenever I visit this board.

[The Senator]

And here we go again.

Can someone just post a link to like page 50 of this thread where we spent pages and pages of going around in circles over this? Reading the same posts over and over again makes me feel like I'm stuck in some sort of time warp whenever I visit this board.

That's all that politics is... debating the same thing over and over and over and over and over again, for years and years and years and years... be happy this will only last six more months.

[Spider-Bite]

That really isn't the issue, as far as I'm concerned. It's a question of whether or not Obama exercised the best judgment when dealing with this situation. Wright had been on public record saying some of these comments before Obama ran for Senate. As a result, Obama's campaign should have known that hiring Wright as their top spiritual adviser was a bad idea only waiting to explode in their face.

That never happened. The campaign never hired anybody as a "spiritual advisor." In fact I don't know of any campaign doing such a thing. Wright raised and donated money to Obama's campaign. That's all.


When the media made a deal about Wright's comments, Obama should have kicked him off the campaign and said "I strongly disagree with this man's comments." Instead, he laughed off what Wright said as something a "crazy uncle" would say. Then when the media continued to hound him for it, he turned the Wright issue into a lecture on race. He ignored the entire problem; this wasn't an issue about race relations, this was a question of Obama's judgment.

The most they could do is return the money he raised. He wasn't a member of their staff to begin with.


On top of that, he spent several more weeks drawing attention to himself by refusing to answer the public's questions about this man. Granted, I don't believe Obama agrees with Wright on everything he said, but as a politician, Obama should have known that this was going to be a nightmare for his campaign. He tried not making this an issue, which made it an even bigger issue, which forced him to strongly reject Wright's comments over a month after they became such a huge deal.


he did answer their questions. He didn't answer them how I would have. He claimed to not have been present for those particular sermons, and he claimed thathad he been, he'd have walked out of the church.

I would have said "look I care about this man, but I've been arguing with him for years. He's from the older generation and he wont let go of the hate, but I can't disown him"



While I believe his apology was sufficient, I feel that the way he handled this situation was Dukakis-esque and could have been a true PR nightmare for his campaign. Hell, it still is, in some ways, especially since many pundits and political campaign committees are unwilling to let it go.



That has nothing to do with the price of bread in Austria. He still hired Wright knowing full well what kind of vicious things Wright said about white folks.



I think that's an audacious thing to say, frankly. There are African Americans who are more successful than I am, who make more money than me and have better jobs than I have... yet if I said that the black man serves to keep the white man down, the words 'racist' would be permanently branded across my forehead not a moment after I uttered the last word of that sentence. I don't care what race he is-- any negative comments towards any race in this country serves to divide, not to unite, therefore completely refuting Obama's message of "unity."

Also, the difference between 'ordinary' people with controversial friends and the Obama/ Wright relationship is simple: Obama's running for President. He's running to represent the interests of all Americans. So associating yourself with someone who says downright retarded things such as "the white man created AIDS to kill black people" is entirely divisive and deserves to be scrutinized. I could care less who John Smith from Tuscaloosa, Alabama is friends with; I do care who Obama is friends with, and more importantly, I care what kind of a role he gives those friends in his campaign.



None of this has to do with Obama's race. It has everything to do with his pastor's racist comments, and Obama's lapsed judgment.


So if I decide to run for President, which I'm never, ever going to, are you going to hold the words of my Grandfather and my Uncle against me? They are anti-anything white.

[souvlaki]

That's all that politics is... debating the same thing over and over and over and over and over again, for years and years and years and years... be happy this will only last six more months.

Yeah, but seriously... what more really needs to be said? It's debatable whether or not Obama handled the situation well initially, but he did just about everything he can possibly do at this point to distance himself from Rev. Wright two weeks ago. There are people satisfied with that response a few weeks ago, and people dissatisfied with that response, and no matter how much we argue over it, noone is going to change their mind. Not at this point. So what is arguing about it anymore really going to accomplish?

[Spider-Bite]

My grandfather made an ill comment about African Americans once at a family gathering, and I told him he would apologize for saying that or else I would leave. He apologized. My grandfather isn't a bigot by any means, but I won't stand for retarded, divisive comments like that. I had friends in high school who said ill things about gays and non-whites; I don't associate with them anymore. I have limited contact with certain family members who act the same way. You can choose to disassociate yourself from these people. Tell them to get their act together, or you want nothing to do with them on a face-to-face basis.

The fact that you're sort of in politics and say these sort of things makes me wonder what kind of naivety is being brought into the field.

A coherced apology is worthless. Disowning them wouldn't solve anything or change anybody's mind. It would simply "divide" my family and cause problems for everybody whom I am related to.

Plus they are from the older generations. They are too stuck in their ways and too old to change. My sister whom I had a major part in raising has never been present for those comments though, and I would draw the line there, as I do not want her being influenced in that way. I raised her to be accepting and I would never, ever stand for any family member filling her head with that crap.

And what kind of things am I saying that makes you wonder? I have spoken truth. It doesn't matter if your name is clinton, McCain, Obama, or JManspice. You are close to at least one bigot. Probably more than one. if your not going to vote for Obama because of this, then you better not vote for anybody, and you better not have ever voted before, because if you did, than your being a hypocrite. Even Hillary Clinton has bad associations. Her parents are right wing conservatives. so you know there is some bigotry in her family history, whether it's against blacks, gays, or muslims, it's there.

[Spider-Bite]

I can't speak for Jman, but when I vote, I'm voting on real issues like Iraq, Iran, energy, environment, health care, taxes, etc. I'm not voting based "he knows a guy, who knows a guy"

Hell half this country is bigoted against one group or another. It's a sad fact of reality.

[The Senator]

That never happened. The campaign never hired anybody as a "spiritual advisor." In fact I don't know of any campaign doing such a thing. Wright raised and donated money to Obama's campaign. That's all.

Yes, they did hire him to serve as a spiritual adviser. He served on the campaign's Spiritual Advisory Committee:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23634881/


The most they could do is return the money he raised. He wasn't a member of their staff to begin with.

Yes, he was, that's why he was asked to step down from his position on the campaign's Spiritual Advisory Committee. Seriously, how can you be in politics when you don't keep up with this sort of thing? Either you're totally ignorant, or you're so infatuated with Obama that you've lost all sight of reality.


he did answer their questions. He didn't answer them how I would have. He claimed to not have been present for those particular sermons, and he claimed thathad he been, he'd have walked out of the church.

I would have said "look I care about this man, but I've been arguing with him for years. He's from the older generation and he wont let go of the hate, but I can't disown him"

That's still a stupid way to deal with the situation. You either disown the man, or face the attacks which follow. Obama didn't disown Wright, and that's why this was made as big an issue as it was in the first place.

So if I decide to run for President, which I'm never, ever going to, are you going to hold the words of my Grandfather and my Uncle against me? They are anti-anything white.

As long as you don't hire them to work on your campaign, things will be fine :up:

[The Senator]

I can't speak for Jman, but when I vote, I'm voting on real issues like Iraq, Iran, energy, environment, health care, taxes, etc. I'm not voting based "he knows a guy, who knows a guy"

Hell half this country is bigoted against one group or another. It's a sad fact of reality.

Well, I voted for Clinton in the primary on the issues which mattered to me... and since I will probably end up supporting Obama in the fall, your argument has zero weight...

[The Senator]

A coherced apology is worthless. Disowning them wouldn't solve anything or change anybody's mind. It would simply "divide" my family and cause problems for everybody whom I am related to.

Plus they are from the older generations. They are too stuck in their ways and too old to change. My sister whom I had a major part in raising has never been present for those comments though, and I would draw the line there, as I do not want her being influenced in that way. I raised her to be accepting and I would never, ever stand for any family member filling her head with that crap.

And what kind of things am I saying that makes you wonder? I have spoken truth. It doesn't matter if your name is clinton, McCain, Obama, or JManspice. You are close to at least one bigot. Probably more than one. if your not going to vote for Obama because of this, then you better not vote for anybody, and you better not have ever voted before, because if you did, than your being a hypocrite. Even Hillary Clinton has bad associations. Her parents are right wing conservatives. so you know there is some bigotry in her family history, whether it's against blacks, gays, or muslims, it's there.

Two things need to get said here, with both being said in ridiculously large font so you get the message:

THIS ISN'T ABOUT OBAMA ASSOCIATING WITH WRIGHT.

It's about his judgment and how he dealt with the entire scandal. This could have been solved very easily: Someone on Obama's campaign should have done a background check on Wright, then told Obama that Wright has a history of saying controversial things which would backfire on the campaign. No one did that. And when this did turn out badly for Obama, he didn't react the way he should have. This was a call on judgment-- I could care less if Obama believes what this man believes, or if he associates with this man on a personal level at all. But on a professional level, this relationship was inappropriate and a PR nightmare.

I NEVER SAID I WASN'T GOING TO VOTE FOR OBAMA OVER THIS.

But at the same time, I disagree with how he's been running certain aspects of his campaign. And this is my biggest gripe. Because Obama didn't handle this incident correctly, it has brought animosity to his campaign which never should have existed. Now you have ignoramuses in states like West Virginia saying things like "That Obama thinks white peoples are evil!" This was a major screw up for his campaign, and he's lucky it happened early on... though it probably will come up again in the fall...

[souvlaki]

Well, I voted for Clinton in the primary on the issues which mattered to me... and since I will probably end up supporting Obama in the fall, your argument has zero weight...

Yeah, I gotta say Spider-Bite, you are arguing with the wrong person here. Jman may not have liked what Rev. Wright has to say, but he is the last person on this board to base his vote completely one issue.

I may not always agree with you Jman, but you certainly weigh all the issues equally, and make your judgment on several factors instead of letting one thing that bothers you completely stop you from voting for someone. Because of that, you get my respect.

[The Senator]

Yeah, I gotta say Spider-Bite, you are arguing with the wrong person here. Jman may not have liked what Rev. Wright has to say, but he is the last person on this board to base his vote completely one issue.

I may not always agree with you Jman, but you certainly weigh all the issues equally, and make your judgment on several factors instead of letting one thing that bothers you completely stop you from voting for someone. Because of that, you get my respect.

Had Obama gotten up on that stage and said "white people invented AIDS to kill black people," there would be no way I could support him. His pastor said it, so that's entirely different, but my issue isn't so much with the comments, but with how this whole thing was handled.

But yeah, my issues which matter are immediate withdrawal from Iraq and fixing some of the economic issues plaguing this country... and since McCain has vowed not to withdraw troops until at least 2013, and because he thinks getting rid of all earmarks is some sort of magic solution to our economic woes, and because he supports a "gas tax holiday" which won't do anything except fail to repair some of our already deteriorating roads and bridges, there's really no way I can vote for the man in good conscious...

As for the respect... thanks :woot:. I try to respect everyone here as long as the arguments they have aren't totally asinine, and even then it's hard to act deliberately disrespectful. :cwink:

[Memphis Slim]

Its not. It is a superhero message board. The board nor its administration has no leanings.

:lmao::hehe::hehe: Now that's hilarious!! Even Stevie Wonder can thru that!


The population may be left leaning but that is to be expected as again, it is a superhero message board. A lot of young people occupy it due to the subject matter. Young people tend to lean left.

Didn't I just say this was a left-leaning board??

[Spider-Bite]

Yes, they did hire him to serve as a spiritual adviser. He served on the campaign's Spiritual Advisory Committee:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23634881/



Yes, he was, that's why he was asked to step down from his position on the campaign's Spiritual Advisory Committee. Seriously, how can you be in politics when you don't keep up with this sort of thing? Either you're totally ignorant, or you're so infatuated with Obama that you've lost all sight of reality.


It was my understanding that


Wright volunteered to leave his African American Religious Leadership Committee, a loose group of supporters associated with the campaign

Spiritual Advisor isn't a real job in a campaign. He didn't actually work for Obama's campaign. He worked for the AARLC who associates itself with the Obama campaign. Not the exact same thing. I didn't say I was in politics. I said I'm going to be a political advisor. Trying to insult me, only makes you look as outrageous as Wright himself.


That's still a stupid way to deal with the situation. You either disown the man, or face the attacks which follow. Obama didn't disown Wright, and that's why this was made as big an issue as it was in the first place.




I'm sorry but your being unrealistic. He's no more likely to disown him, than you are your grandfather, whom you didn't disown. Your =grandfather wouldn't have made comments about blacks unless he was just as racist as my own grandfather.


As long as you don't hire them to work on your campaign, things will be fine :up:


I would never hire them as they wouldn't have anything to offer, but if I thought one of them could be a tremendous help on an issue unrelated to race, then I definitely would. The bottom line is to get things done and do a good job. If I need a scientists help dealing with global warming, and that scientist turns out to be racist, should I just let the planet go to hell out of spite? No.

[Spider-Bite]

Really it comes down to this. People are acting inmature about the Wright situation by making a big deal out of it. it's really very childish. and it's a funny coincedence. in my family some of them are racist and some of them are not. The non racist ones, keep it real. Every siingle racist person I know, points to Wright and makes a big deal talking about influence, bad judgement etc. This is how the world is working outside of these boards. Racists are pleased by Wright because it confirms what they want to believe about Obama for them, and non racists feel bad because, like Obama, were stuck with them.

[Matt]

[

Didn't I just say this was a left-leaning board??

Whats so hillarious about it? Lets see, most moderators are politically apathetic (one is from England, though I suppose a xenophobe like you assumes all foreigners are baby killing, gay marrying, liberal terrorists). There are really only four moderators who are politically active. Hippie_Hunter, Immortalfire, Malice, and myself. Three of which are conservatives. Doesn't really seem like a left-bias from an administration stand-point. If anything it is the opposite. Oh, and Truthteller, one of our most prominent moderators of the past, also a conservative.

[Matt]

Really it comes down to this. People are acting inmature about the Wright situation by making a big deal out of it. it's really very childish. and it's a funny coincedence. in my family some of them are racist and some of them are not. The non racist ones, keep it real. Every siingle racist person I know, points to Wright and makes a big deal talking about influence, bad judgement etc. This is how the world is working outside of these boards. Racists are pleased by Wright because it confirms what they want to believe about Obama for them, and non racists feel bad because, like Obama, were stuck with them.

Just for the record, you are wrong. Obama has described Wright as his campaign's spiritual advisor. He was a staff member. And quit playing the ****ing race card. You're better than that. Obama brought an extremist, radical, racist onto his staff. Furthermore, he went to his church for 20 years. You can say the family analogy all you want, but the fact is, Wright isn't family. Wright is a man Obama CHOSE to have an association with, knowing full well what his radical beliefs were. Furthermore, Obama lied when this scandal first broke. "People are racist," is not the reason this is an issue.

Tell me this Spider-Bite, if it came out that John McCain went to KKK rallies for 20 years and had the grand dragon as a staff member, and baptize his children, etc would you say "Well, I have family who are racist too?" In this scenario McCain did not do anything violent, he simply went to the rallies, and listening to the grand dragon preach racism. That situation isn't far off from Obama's.

[ForestAflame]

Since when is Wright an extremist radical racist? He has some extremist points of view regarding the creation of AIDs and the white supremacy structure, but those hardly take up the majority of his sermons.

[RockSP]

Since when is Wright an extremist radical racist? He has some extremist points of view regarding the creation of AIDs and the white supremacy structure, but those hardly take up the majority of his sermons.

Hey, hey, hey! No common sense allowed in here!!!!!

[Matt]

Since when is Wright an extremist radical racist? He has some extremist points of view regarding the creation of AIDs and the white supremacy structure, but those hardly take up the majority of his sermons.

According to his own paritioners his racist sermons made up about half of his sermons each year.

[StorminNorman]

Since when is Wright an extremist radical racist? He has some extremist points of view regarding the creation of AIDs and the white supremacy structure, but those hardly take up the majority of his sermons.

Even if the majority of his sermons were typical Christian sermons - the racists sermons are enough to label him as an extremist radical racist.

[ForestAflame]

I heard that when Obama was hanging a picture in his living room he hit his finger with a hammer and yelled, "Oh, DARN!" Can't tell you how sickened and repulsed I was to hear that. My God, I certainly hope there were no children around . . .

[StorminNorman]

I heard that when Obama was hanging a picture in his living room he hit his finger with a hammer and yelled, "Oh, DARN!" Can't tell you how sickened and repulsed I was to hear that. My God, I certainly hope there were no children around . . .

:dry:

[Matt]

I heard that when Obama was hanging a picture in his living room he hit his finger with a hammer and yelled, "Oh, DARN!" Can't tell you how sickened and repulsed I was to hear that. My God, I certainly hope there were no children around . . .

Quit trying to bait people into arguments or you can take some time off. Either discuss issues like an adult or not at all.

[The Senator]

I heard that when Obama was hanging a picture in his living room he hit his finger with a hammer and yelled, "Oh, DARN!" Can't tell you how sickened and repulsed I was to hear that. My God, I certainly hope there were no children around . . .

That's not the issue? :huh:

I mean, Hillary Clinton says the f-word all the time in private. Most politicians swear like a sailor.... but I'm still confused as to why we're discussing this :huh: :huh:

[The Senator]

Since when is Wright an extremist radical racist? He has some extremist points of view regarding the creation of AIDs and the white supremacy structure, but those hardly take up the majority of his sermons.

The fact that he preaches these things makes him a disgusting, extremist radical... it doesn't matter what the frequency of the sermons are...

[RockSP]

I heard that when Obama was hanging a picture in his living room he hit his finger with a hammer and yelled, "Oh, DARN!" Can't tell you how sickened and repulsed I was to hear that. My God, I certainly hope there were no children around . . .

That wasn't funny, buddy.

:wow::wow::wow: Uh...sorry! I didn't mean to call you "buddy"! Oh god, oh god, please forgive me! Pleeaaaaassseeeeeee!! I'm going to throw a press conference later today to apologize even more for calling you "buddy"! It's a bad habit of mine. I didn't mean anything by it, honest!!!!!!!!

[StorminNorman]

That wasn't funny, buddy.

:wow::wow::wow: Uh...sorry! I didn't mean to call you "buddy"! Oh god, oh god, please forgive me! Pleeaaaaassseeeeeee!! I'm going to throw a press conference later today to apologize even more for calling you "buddy"! It's a bad habit of mine. I didn't mean anything by it, honest!!!!!!!!

:dry:

[RockSP]

Quit trying to bait people into arguments or you can take some time off. Either discuss issues like an adult or not at all.

Uh maybe it was a joke. That's still allowed, right?

[The Senator]

Really it comes down to this. People are acting inmature about the Wright situation by making a big deal out of it. it's really very childish. and it's a funny coincedence. in my family some of them are racist and some of them are not. The non racist ones, keep it real. Every siingle racist person I know, points to Wright and makes a big deal talking about influence, bad judgement etc. This is how the world is working outside of these boards. Racists are pleased by Wright because it confirms what they want to believe about Obama for them, and non racists feel bad because, like Obama, were stuck with them.

I'm not racist and I consider this an issue.

My father is an Obama supporter and he's not racist, but he considered this an issue. Same thing with my boyfriend and his parents, and his parents are actively involved in their county's Democratic Party. I find it... strange... that you label everyone who disagrees with your views on Wright as a racist.

But again, this isn't about what Wright said, but about how Obama handled the situation. Obviously, even when it's written in ridiculously large font, you strategically ignore the point. Maybe you will make it in politics after all.

[Matt]

Uh maybe it was a joke. That's still allowed, right?

Not when the joke is a transparent, obvious attempt to bait flame wars with Obama detractors.

[RockSP]

Not when the joke is attempting to bait flame wars with Obama detractors.

I can't speak for Forestaflame, but I don't see how making fun of the fact that the media is trying to make a big deal out of the trivial "sweetie" thing is flame baiting...

[Varient]

meh.
"From out in left field"

All Hilliary has to do is make it to the end game and then she will pull the scheduled predetermined "upset" to place her as the democratic canidate.

Not argueing,.. just saying the same thing I have said since the thread started.

[Matt]

If she can force the second ballot, I do believe she will win because at that point, everything else is off the table and it is pretty much just who the SDs think can do the most for them and who they owe the most to. That would obviously be the Clinton family. But at this point a second ballot is less and less likely

[StorminNorman]

Obama just challenged McCain (and President Bush) for a debate on foreign policy and protecting the country.

Is that a smart move on Obama's part?

[Matt]

Obama just challenged McCain (and President Bush) for a debate on foreign policy and protecting the country.

Is that a smart move on Obama's part?

Like a literal debate? If so it is kind of stupid. Bush isn't going to accept as why would he? And it is arrogant to challenge McCain to a debate when his own primary is not yet over. It comes off as grandstanding. He should not be getting in the mud with Bush, because that is exactly what Bush wants. He made a crazed statement with hopes of getting Obama on the tilt, and it seems to be working if Obama gave that knee jerk reaction.

[The Senator]

Like a literal debate? If so it is kind of stupid. Bush isn't going to accept as why would he? And it is arrogant to challenge McCain to a debate when his own primary is not yet over. It comes off as grandstanding. He should not be getting in the mud with Bush, because that is exactly what Bush wants. He made a crazed statement with hopes of getting Obama on the tilt, and it seems to be working if Obama gave that knee jerk reaction.

To be fair, McCain debated Bill Bradley during the 2000 election, and neither became their party's nominee.

[Matt]

To be fair, McCain debated Bill Bradley during the 2000 election, and neither became their party's nominee.

At that point they were two desperate candidates trying to stand out amongst two big name candidates (a VP and a former president's son).

[Lightning Strykez!]

Definitely not a good move on Barack's part. I mean...why???? :confused:

November will get here soon enough.

[Matt]

Definitely not a good move on Barack's part. I mean...why???? :confused:

November will get here soon enough.

Yeah, Bush threw out the bait and Obama bit hook, line, and sinker. Bush wants him to get down in the mud and wrestle around and that is exactly what Obama is doing. Now McCain, who has been distancing himself from Bush and did not make the remarks can ask Obama, "Why are you dragging me into this? I have not attacked you on issues such as Wright, why would you attack me on this?" Stupid for Obama to even bother responding.

[Excel]

Its actually a good move for Obama; if he becomes the man who Bush haters go for, hell win in a landslide.

[Spider-Bite]

Obama just challenged McCain (and President Bush) for a debate on foreign policy and protecting the country.

Is that a smart move on Obama's part?

A very good move. It invokes a sense of confidence and further promotes the idea that enoughs enough with the Obama verses Hillary, and it's time to move on.

Also it's a good way to offset any negative views on him choosing not to debate Hillary. He's done with her, and he's moving on to the Republicans. Some view Obama as "not tough enough" and this can help with that. Not to mention if he were to debate them, he'd wipe the floor with them.

It shows a willingness to face tough questions, and a desire to stand up for his beliefs.

[Darthphere]

Its actually a good move for Obama; if he becomes the man who Bush haters go for, hell win in a landslide.

Holy ****, you really know nothing about politics. I mean, I'm not an expert or anything, but I know when I say something stupid.

[Spider-Bite]

Just for the record, you are wrong. Obama has described Wright as his campaign's spiritual advisor. He was a staff member. And quit playing the ****ing race card. You're better than that. Obama brought an extremist, radical, racist onto his staff. Furthermore, he went to his church for 20 years. You can say the family analogy all you want, but the fact is, Wright isn't family. Wright is a man Obama CHOSE to have an association with, knowing full well what his radical beliefs were. Furthermore, Obama lied when this scandal first broke. "People are racist," is not the reason this is an issue.

Tell me this Spider-Bite, if it came out that John McCain went to KKK rallies for 20 years and had the grand dragon as a staff member, and baptize his children, etc would you say "Well, I have family who are racist too?" In this scenario McCain did not do anything violent, he simply went to the rallies, and listening to the grand dragon preach racism. That situation isn't far off from Obama's.

it's a complete polar opposite. A KKK church? Come on it has a mission of prmoting white superiority. The black trinity church has no such mission. In fact the black trinity church does a lot of good for it's surrounding community and the world, which is why obama joined. It gave him the ability as a young man to help a lot of youths in the area do something with their lives. It has a completely different mission from that of the KKK. Despite Wright that church helped a lot of people, and Wright's comments really aren't any worse than comments made by most Pastur's. Wright was anti-white and anti-jewish. Almost every church in America promotes bigotry towards one group or another.

Is Wright anti-American? I'm not sure. He has said thigns during heated sermons, but a lot of people say things while hot. And can't we hav e alittle sympathy? If you lived his life you'd probably say the same thing. This guy didnt' grow up in our America of equalty. He grew up on the back of the bus, unable to get a job because of segregation. He was treated horribly by America, and if the government did those kinds of things to me I'd probably have some resentment as well.

It's been merely 40 years since segregation was overturned, and it took a very long time after that for it to be enforced throughout the country.

Needless to say if I attacked a man, he'd probably say God Damn Spider-Bite.

His comments about the "white man this" and the "white man that" are still never justified because not all white people are responsible, and he's ignoring the white people who were on the side of equality.

Basically I'm saying Wright is a product of society and a product of history, and despite the fact that I disagree with him, I can sympathyze, since our country created him, and now we have an obligation to undo what we did.

How many members here have said the words "I've had it with this country" or "I'm moving to Canada"? Is that any less patriotic than "God Bless America? No! God Damn America!" And remember those words were decades ago, at a time when the government deserved to be damned for it's opression. Why is it okay to criticize Iran or middle eastern countries for their oppression, but not America? Does it get a free pass on everything it ever did?

[Excel]

Holy ****, you really know nothing about politics. I mean, I'm not an expert or anything, but I know when I say something stupid.

Haha, you look to far into things. All most will see is "Bush defends McCain, trashs Obama".

Can only be good Barack :up:

[turtlefocker]

I thought this was funny:

No...

[Darthphere]

Haha, you look to far into things. All most will see is "Bush defends McCain, trashs Obama".

Can only be good Barack :up:

Seriously, anything Barack does is good for him in your opinion.

"Barack Obama threw feces at George Bush!"

Excel: "That's good for him because most people already think he's a ****ty president.:up:"

[StorminNorman]

it's a complete polar opposite. A KKK church? Come on it has a mission of prmoting white superiority. The black trinity church has no such mission. In fact the black trinity church does a lot of good for it's surrounding community and the world, which is why obama joined. It gave him the ability as a young man to help a lot of youths in the area do something with their lives. It has a completely different mission from that of the KKK. Despite Wright that church helped a lot of people, and Wright's comments really aren't any worse than comments made by most Pastur's. Wright was anti-white and anti-jewish. Almost every church in America promotes bigotry towards one group or another.

The United Trinity Church practices Black Separatist Theology - a racist religion. I find Black Separatist Theology equal to White Supremacy - thus making it similar to the philosophical aspect of the KKK.

Is Wright anti-American? I'm not sure. He has said thigns during heated sermons, but a lot of people say things while hot. And can't we hav e alittle sympathy? If you lived his life you'd probably say the same thing. This guy didnt' grow up in our America of equalty. He grew up on the back of the bus, unable to get a job because of segregation. He was treated horribly by America, and if the government did those kinds of things to me I'd probably have some resentment as well.

Is Wright anti-American? Yes. I don't think that can be questioned at this point. Sure, he can on about his past that was full of pain - fine. But he has grown out of that and is now and rich and (once) powerful man - has he not lived the American dream? So no, he has not been treated horribly by America, he has THRIVED in America.

[The Senator]

The United Trinity Church practices Black Separatist Theology - a racist religion. I find Black Separatist Theology equal to White Supremacy - thus making it similar to the philosophical aspect of the KKK.



Is Wright anti-American? Yes. I don't think that can be questioned at this point. Sure, he can on about his past that was full of pain - fine. But he has grown out of that and is now and rich and (once) powerful man - has he not lived the American dream? So no, he has not been treated horribly by America, he has THRIVED in America.

You's racist :cmad:


:cwink:

[Marx]

Obama just challenged McCain (and President Bush) for a debate on foreign policy and protecting the country.

Is that a smart move on Obama's part?

While I think that it comes off as arrogant and "grandstanding" for him to challenge Bush and McCain, he's proving that he isn't about to put up with any of their same old bull****.

For that I applaud him, this whole thing by Bush is ridiculous and incredibly transparent.

[BlackLantern]

While I think that it comes off as arrogant and "grandstanding" for him to challenge Bush and McCain, he's proving that he isn't about to put up with any of their same old bull****.

For that I applaud him, this whole thing by Bush is ridiculous and incredibly transparent.

Bush is the outgoing President...he really doesn't have to answer to anyone at this point....it sucks but thats how it is...Id like to see a straight up debate between McCain and Obama though

[Marx]

Bush is the outgoing President...he really doesn't have to answer to anyone at this point....it sucks but thats how it is...Id like to see a straight up debate between McCain and Obama though

Bush has never really had to answer to anyone. He had a rubber-stamp Congress, which he doesn't anymore. (Thankfully.) But even though the GOP lost the majority, it isn't a largest enough majority to do anything with. He knows he isn't going to get impeached because there is no way in heck that would get through. He has no regard for anyone other than himself. He never has. I realize that's the way it is, but I would hope that after EIGHT LONG YEARS of this crap, what he is doing now (or again) should be transparent.

From the looks of things, you will get your wish. Obama vs. McCain.

[Spider-Bite]

The United Trinity Church practices Black Separatist Theology - a racist religion. I find Black Separatist Theology equal to White Supremacy - thus making it similar to the philosophical aspect of the KKK.

It does not prmote black superiority. It's merely aimed at specifically uplifting black people's status in America which is lower than it should be. It's like BET. It's divisive, but not the same as KKK. Their belief does not promote killing white people or enslaving them, so it's ridiculous to compare it to the KKK.


Is Wright anti-American? Yes. I don't think that can be questioned at this point. Sure, he can on about his past that was full of pain - fine. But he has grown out of that and is now and rich and (once) powerful man - has he not lived the American dream? So no, he has not been treated horribly by America, he has THRIVED in America.


well he did risk his life for this country in the military, and yes he has been treated horribly by America. If you don't think segregation is unfair, than I really don't know to say about that, because what needs to be said? He did not grow up with equal protection under the law. He wasn't even allowed to drink at the same water fountain as me and you till late in his adult life.

Try living that life, sitting in run down hell holes the government calls schools. And when segregation was overturned, he was already well into his adult life, now watching schools all over the country close as a way to refuse integration. He's bitter. Bitter is not the appropiate way to handle it, but it is the human way. He's basically acting how most people in his situation would act. If you were in his shoes, you'd more than likely say the same thing. It's easy to pass judgment on the guy at the bottom of the hill, when your king of the mountain.

Basically it's like this.

We are just as responsible for the creation of Reverend Wright as we are for Anti-Americanism in the middle east. It's an honest to god fact of reality. If you don't think slavery and segregation is going to promote a backlash, than your being naive. I don't deny it's important to move on, but we have to remember that moving on is not always easy for everybody.

[Matt]

People like Wright hold the black community down. Italians had it bad too. You don't see me sitting around *****ing about how bad it was for my ancestors. Same with the Irish, same with the Jews, same with basically any ethnic group that did not come from the England. Do you know the essential difference? They were able to move on. Bill Cosby says it the best, people like rappers, Wright, etc create such a hatred for the white man, that these kids think it is a form of rebellion to not go to school, to deal drugs, etc. Therefore, in turn, they create a never ending loop of bad circumstances for the black community.

Frankly, I'm sick of the guilt trip argument, Spider-Bite. What past generations did to African Americans truly sucks and was horrible. But frankly, it is time to move on. I mean, sure there is still racism, but it is no longer institutionalized, the government and society has done their part. There is no longer government sponsored racism, affirmitive action and anti-discrimination laws are in place. Ball is in the black community's court. If they want things to get better, it is time to stop focusing on the past, lose this "Us vs them," mentality and move the hell on. Otherwise, Bill Cosby is right, it will simply become a never ending, self-fulfilling prophecy.

And I'm sure you will say "You don't get it!" but I do. My family wasn't exactly the rich white man laughing at the poor black man's suffering. My grandparents were Italian immigrants who could not get work for YEARS. My siblings and I are the first generation of my family to have high school diplomas because in my father's generation the only real option for an Italian in this area was to drop out of high school in 9th grade and get a job in the steel mills. Then when the steel mills closed basically everyone was **** out of luck because they had no education or special skills. The black community is not the only community to suffer discrimination...and yet they seem to be the only one that focus on the past to the point that it hurts their present generations.

[BlackLantern]

People like Wright hold the black community down. Italians had it bad too. You don't see me sitting around *****ing about how bad it was for my ancestors. Same with the Irish, same with the Jews, same with basically any ethnic group that did not come from the England. Do you know the essential difference? They were able to move on. Bill Cosby says it the best, people like rappers, Wright, etc create such a hatred for the white man, that these kids think it is a form of rebellion to not go to school, to deal drugs, etc. Therefore, in turn, they create a never ending loop of bad circumstances for the black community.

Frankly, I'm sick of the guilt trip argument, Spider-Bite. What past generations did to African Americans truly sucks and was horrible. But frankly, it is time to move on. I mean, sure there is still racism, but it is no longer institutionalized, the government and society has done their part. There is no longer government sponsored racism, affirmitive action and anti-discrimination laws are in place. Ball is in the black community's court. If they want things to get better, it is time to stop focusing on the past, lose this "Us vs them," mentality and move the hell on. Otherwise, Bill Cosby is right, it will simply become a never ending, self-fulfilling prophecy.

And I'm sure you will say "You don't get it!" but I do. My family wasn't exactly the rich white man laughing at the poor black man's suffering. My grandparents were Italian immigrants who could not get work for YEARS. My siblings and I are the first generation of my family to have high school diplomas because in my father's generation the only real option for an Italian in this area was to drop out of high school in 9th grade and get a job in the steel mills. Then when the steel mills closed basically everyone was **** out of luck because they had no education or special skills. The black community is not the only community to suffer discrimination...and yet they seem to be the only one that focus on the past to the point that it hurts their present generations.

I agree whole heartedly....people like Reverend Wright, Al Sharpton, and Jesse Jackson use the black communitys mistrust of whites and everyone else in an attempt to stay relevant, thus engendering the climate of mistrust. Black communities tend to have an "US against everyone" mentality and in todays world, that is not the way to go. Me...my way of bridging the gap is sleeping with white women....I'm reaching through the veil of fear and mistrust....I'm a pioneer

[Spider-Bite]

People like Wright hold the black community down.

I agree.

Italians had it bad too. You don't see me sitting around *****ing about how bad it was for my ancestors. Same with the Irish,
I am half Italian. And I don't complain either. I'm also part Irish, and my ancestors were also slaves, and I do not act like Wright either. but on the other hand I grew up in a land with equal protection under the law.


same with the Jews, same with basically any ethnic group that did not come from the England. Do you know the essential difference? They were able to move on.

Incorrect. Some were able to move on and some weren't. Your stereotyping, prejudging them, and generalizing. There are plenty of Reverend Wrights in every race. Just look at Israel's aggressive foreign policy. That government is basically run by a whole bunch of Reverend Wrights.


Bill Cosby says it the best, people like rappers, Wright, etc create such a hatred for the white man, that these kids think it is a form of rebellion to not go to school, to deal drugs, etc. Therefore, in turn, they create a never ending loop of bad circumstances for the black community.


I wont deny that.

Frankly, I'm sick of the guilt trip argument, Spider-Bite. What past generations did to African Americans truly sucks and was horrible. But frankly, it is time to move on. I mean, sure there is still racism, but it is no longer institutionalized, the government and society has done their part. There is no longer government sponsored racism, affirmitive action and anti-discrimination laws are in place. Ball is in the black community's court. If they want things to get better, it is time to stop focusing on the past, lose this "Us vs them," mentality and move the hell on. Otherwise, Bill Cosby is right, it will simply become a never ending, self-fulfilling prophecy.

right now I'm in college. About 25% of the population is black. I live in a dorm, becuase I have a medical condition that prevents me from driving. Our school has it's own police department on campus, and yes we all see the cops treating people different based on race. It's so freaking obvious and extreme, it's sick.


And I'm sure you will say "You don't get it!" but I do. My family wasn't exactly the rich white man laughing at the poor black man's suffering. My grandparents were Italian immigrants who could not get work for YEARS. My siblings and I are the first generation of my family to have high school diplomas because in my father's generation the only real option for an Italian in this area was to drop out of high school in 9th grade and get a job in the steel mills. Then when the steel mills closed basically everyone was **** out of luck because they had no education or special skills. The black community is not the only community to suffer discrimination...and yet they seem to be the only one that focus on the past to the point that it hurts their present generations.
[/QUOTE]

Really? So non blacks are mature enough to handle it, and blacks aren't? come on, how is that not racist? There are plenty of blacks able to handle it maturely. You only proved my point, that racism was guiding your beliefs. I hate to tell you this, but there is nothing in a black person's DNA that makes it harder for them to move on. There are people like that in every race. And these stereotypes your throwing out, only serve to create more people like Wright.

[The Senator]

right now I'm in college. About 25% of the population is black. I live in a dorm, becuase I have a medical condition that prevents me from driving. Our school has it's own police department on campus, and yes we all see the cops treating people different based on race. It's so freaking obvious and extreme, it's sick.

Funny... the cops on my campus are a 'mixed' bunch... so there really isn't any noticeable racism on their behalf...

[Spider-Bite]

I agree whole heartedly....people like Reverend Wright, Al Sharpton, and Jesse Jackson use the black communitys mistrust of whites and everyone else in an attempt to stay relevant, thus engendering the climate of mistrust. Black communities tend to have an "US against everyone" mentality and in todays world, that is not the way to go.

did you not just admit to having mistrust for the black community? The white communities are all accepting, but the black community is full of racists?

[Spider-Bite]

Funny... the cops on my campus are a 'mixed' bunch... so there really isn't any noticeable racism on their behalf...

Not mine. They are all white. We had a black one a while ago, but he's gone now.

[The Senator]

did you not just admit to having mistrust for the black community? The white communities are all accepting, but the black community is full of racists?

I love it when people accuse African Americans of mistrusting and/ or hating their own, because that's... rational... :huh:

[BlackLantern]

did you not just admit to having mistrust for the black community? The white communities are all accepting, but the black community is full of racists?

I didn't say racist...I said there is a climate of mistrust throughout the black community towards white people. Some white communities are mistrustful and some aren't.

[Marx]

did you not just admit to having mistrust for the black community? The white communities are all accepting, but the black community is full of racists?

I don't think you are getting what BL is saying. All of these people like Wright, Sharpton, and Jackson have to continue to stir the pot in order to stay relevent. They have made careers on being controversial. If their main platform is pulled out right from underneath them...where does that leave them?

[redfirebird2008]

Anyone seen the idiotic joke that Huckabee made about Obama today during a speech to the NRA?

[Spider-Bite]

I love it when people accuse African Americans of mistrusting and/ or hating their own, because that's... rational... :huh:

Pretending to be black does not give you a leg up. You already disclosed your race a few pages ago.

But I have met blacks who were actually racist against their own race. I have an african american friend, who I swear to god is racist against his own race. He doesn't admit it, maybe doesn't even realize it, but everybody around him knows it.

He's always making comments like "that's why I always hang out with mostly white people" or "look at the mess black people leave at the cafeteria", he works there, and he makes all kinds of comments about black girls.

It's sad. I don't know how he turned out like that. And no I'm not going to disown him as a friend. I merely try to help him understand how those things don't help anybody, and I point to examples to disprove his stereotypes. He's a good guy, but he's misguided, and he has flaws.

[The Senator]

Pretending to be black does not give you a leg up. You already disclosed your race a few pages ago.

Okay, seriously, your ignorant comments are becoming more and more unappreciated. I don't know where you got the impression that I was "pretending to be black." For the record, I was referring to your moronic, assumptive reply to BL's post.


But I have met blacks who were actually racist against their own race. I have an african american friend, who I swear to god is racist against his own race. He doesn't admit it, maybe doesn't even realize it, but everybody around him knows it.

He's always making comments like "that's why I always hang out with mostly white people" or "look at the mess black people leave at the cafeteria", he works there, and he makes all kinds of comments about black girls.

It's sad. I don't know how he turned out like that. And no I'm not going to disown him as a friend. I merely try to help him understand how those things don't help anybody, and I point to examples to disprove his stereotypes. He's a good guy, but he's misguided, and he has flaws.

I don't understand why this is relevant, considering no African American went on such a rant on these forums :huh:

[Matt]

Way to miss the point of my post. I wasn't saying they have some built in gene that causes them to be unable to move on. I was commenting about how poisonous elements within the community, the so called "leaders of the black community" like Sharpton, Wright, etc keep the community as a whole from moving on.

[Marx]

Pretending to be black does not give you a leg up. You already disclosed your race a few pages ago.


Throwing insults doesn't gain credibility Spider. Just a bit a friendly advice! http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/icon14.gif

[Marx]

Way to miss the point of my post. I wasn't saying they have some built in gene that causes them to be unable to move on. I was commenting about how poisonous elements within the community, the so called "leaders of the black community" like Sharpton, Wright, etc keep the community as a whole from moving on.

If (Wright, Sharpton, and Jackson) actually allowed the black community to move on, they would become completely irrelevent.

[The Senator]

Throwing insults doesn't gain credibility Spider. Just a bit a friendly advice! http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/icon14.gif

Throwing insults and repeating one-sided bull **** will certainly get him a career in politics, that's for sure :up:

[Marx]

Throwing insults and repeating one-sided bull **** will certainly get him a career in politics, that's for sure :up:

That's true Jman :oldrazz:

[Spider-Bite]

Way to miss the point of my post. I wasn't saying they have some built in gene that causes them to be unable to move on. I was commenting about how poisonous elements within the community, the so called "leaders of the black community" like Sharpton, Wright, etc keep the community as a whole from moving on.

But the other races are pure of and devoid of people like Wright? You threw out a bunch of stereo types, and incorrect ones at that.

For example I have a jewish friend whom I have argued with many times because he believes people of his faith are better than people without. I've met many whites who claim the black man is keeping them down with affirmative action. There are people like that of every color. Look at O'Reily's comment a few years back about how black people don't have family values.

[StorminNorman]

Black Separatist Theology is all about racism Spider-Bite. What do you think the "Separatist" part of Black Separatist Theology is all about? Racial unity?

well he did risk his life for this country in the military, and yes he has been treated horribly by America. If you don't think segregation is unfair, than I really don't know to say about that, because what needs to be said? He did not grow up with equal protection under the law. He wasn't even allowed to drink at the same water fountain as me and you till late in his adult life.

Try living that life, sitting in run down hell holes the government calls schools. And when segregation was overturned, he was already well into his adult life, now watching schools all over the country close as a way to refuse integration. He's bitter. Bitter is not the appropiate way to handle it, but it is the human way. He's basically acting how most people in his situation would act. If you were in his shoes, you'd more than likely say the same thing. It's easy to pass judgment on the guy at the bottom of the hill, when your king of the mountain.

Basically it's like this.

We are just as responsible for the creation of Reverend Wright as we are for Anti-Americanism in the middle east. It's an honest to god fact of reality. If you don't think slavery and segregation is going to promote a backlash, than your being naive. I don't deny it's important to move on, but we have to remember that moving on is not always easy for everybody.

Asian American's were treated horrible during WWII, Germans were held in internment camps during WWII - I could go on and make a list similar to Matt's.

Reverend did face hardships because of backwards American policy - but he has since then THRIVED because of American principle. For him to bash a country that has enabled him the life of privilege and standing is not only stupid, but hypocritical.

[Spider-Bite]

Throwing insults doesn't gain credibility Spider. Just a bit a friendly advice! http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/icon14.gif

How is that an insult?

[Spider-Bite]

Throwing insults and repeating one-sided bull **** will certainly get him a career in politics, that's for sure :up:

well honestly being objective in journalism is not what politicians look for in an advisor. They want to win.

[Spider-Bite]

Okay, seriously, your ignorant comments are becoming more and more unappreciated. I don't know where you got the impression that I was "pretending to be black." For the record, I was referring to your moronic, assumptive reply to BL's post.



I don't understand why this is relevant, considering no African American went on such a rant on these forums :huh:

You were trying to create the impression that you were black with the "mistrust your own" comment. You can try to backtrack now, but it's too late.

[Spider-Bite]

[quote=StorminNorman;14819808]Black Separatist Theology is all about racism Spider-Bite. What do you think the "Separatist" part of Black Separatist Theology is all about? Racial unity?

I responded to that by saying it is divisive, yet still different from KKK. Why would you ask me if I thought it was unifying when I called it divisive? what's the point of that question?




Asian American's were treated horrible during WWII, Germans were held in internment camps during WWII - I could go on and make a list similar to Matt's.

Yeah, yeah I heard it a few minutes ago, those races are all so much more mature than blacks. sorry, ain't buying it. I know plenty of blacks who are clearly not racist or mistrusting of whites, and reject the beliefs of Wright. Blacks are just as mature as anybody else, and they have moved on just as much as the next race.


Reverend did face hardships because of backwards American policy - but he has since then THRIVED because of American principle. For him to bash a country that has enabled him the life of privilege and standing is not only stupid, but hypocritical.

I never said Wright was correct in his beliefs. I said we promoted mistrust for whites just as we promoted anti-americanism in the middle east. it's a fact of reality. why are you even trying to refute that?

[BlackLantern]

No one is saying that other races are mistrustful.....it just seems that the black communties' mistrust is more publicized than any other race

[Spider-Bite]

I'm shocked at how open everybody is with their racism here. Really.

[Marx]

You were trying to create the impression that you were black with the "mistrust your own" comment. You can try to backtrack now, but it's too late.

Jman has never "pretended to be black" Spider.

[Spider-Bite]

No one is saying that other races are not mistrustful.....it just seems that the black communties' mistrust is more publicized than any other race

actually Matt did say that , and either your or JMan, I can't remember which, said "I completely agree."

He thinks his Italian race is so much more enlightened than black people. I hate to break it to him, but my Italian father, whom I don't have a relationship with, is about as racist as they get.

[Spider-Bite]

Jman has never "pretended to be black" Spider.

so what did he mean by that? If that's not what he meant, he would have clarified already. He's waiting, and buying time to think of a response. He's already posted since then, so it's clear he saw it.

I'm sorry, man but all this talk about how "blacks are like this, and blacks are like that" is clearly racist.

[Marx]

I'm shocked at how open everybody is with their racism here. Really.

Ok seriously Spider, you need to realize that people are more than capable of having a discussion about racism and oppression without being labelled as racists. I've grown tired of this mentality that no one can question anything about race without it somehow being racist.

We happen to have very intelligent conversations in the political forum. (As surprising as that may be.)

[Spider-Bite]

Ok seriously Spider, you need to realize that people are more than capable of having a discussion about racism and oppression without being labelled as racists. I've grown tired of this mentality that no one can question anything about race without it somehow being racist.

We happen to have very intelligent conversations in the political forum. (As surprising as that may be.)

Than what's with all these stereo types being thrown out?

I wonder why I'm not throwing out sterotypes against different races or saying "black people this, and black people that."

[BlackLantern]

as a 29 year old black man living in America, I have worked hard and done well....but it hurts me when I hear other black people, even some in my own family, not taking responsibility....It's always someone else fault that they got fired, that this is wrong, that that is wrong. I can't speak for any other races' greivances, but that is what I see on my end

[The Senator]

You were trying to create the impression that you were black with the "mistrust your own" comment. You can try to backtrack now, but it's too late.

WHAT?

You were responding to a post by BlackLantern, where you asked him if he mistrusted the black community. I responded to your idiotic post with this:

I love it when people accuse African Americans of mistrusting and/ or hating their own, because that's... rational...:huh:

You know why I responded with that? Because BlackLantern is black, or at least he was last time I knew. You were essentially accusing him of mistrusting or disliking other black folks.

Nowhere did I even say that I was "black" nor did I imply such a thing.

But hey, keep proving your ignorance... :whatever:

[The Senator]

so what did he mean by that? If that's not what he meant, he would have clarified already. He's waiting, and buying time to think of a response.

Or I was eating dinner :huh:

[The Senator]

well honestly being objective in journalism is not what politicians look for in an advisor. They want to win.

Umm... where did you get the idea that journalists become campaign advisers? Because I was under the impression that anyone who knows anything about campaigning can become an adviser. :huh:

[BlackLantern]

I think being a political adviser is a lot like being a sports agent....There really isn't a set path to it, but you do have to kiss a fair amount of behind to get there

[Marx]

Or I was eating dinner :huh:

Haven't you figured out by now that you must announce when you're leaving in the middle of an argument???????

:cwink:

[The Senator]

I think being a political adviser is a lot like being a sports agent....There really isn't a set path to it, but you do have to kiss a fair amount of behind to get there

Yeah, it is... I don't know any political adviser who was a bonafide journalist before serving on a campaign... I'm sure there are, but journalism strikes me as an interesting career choice for someone who wants to be an adviser...

[The Senator]

Haven't you figured out by now that you must announce when you're leaving in the middle of an argument???????

:cwink:

I'll remember that next time I leave, but I'll probably be accused of being racist or claiming that I'm from a different race.

[Marx]

I'll remember that next time I leave, but I'll probably be accused of being racist or claiming that I'm from a different race.

Or a different species...a different planet! :oldrazz:

[StorminNorman]

I'm shocked at how open everybody is with their racism here. Really.

:down

Your reliance on an arrogant, condescending, elitist attitude against posters who happen to disagree with you does nothing to establish your credibility.

[ForestAflame]

as a 29 year old black man living in America, I have worked hard and done well....but it hurts me when I hear other black people, even some in my own family, not taking responsibility....It's always someone else fault that they got fired, that this is wrong, that that is wrong. I can't speak for any other races' greivances, but that is what I see on my end


"Since the nadir, the climate of race relations has improved, owing especially to the civil rights movement. But massive racial disparities remain...in 2000, African-American and Native American median family incomes averaged only 62 percent of white family income...On average, African-Americans still have worse housing, lower scores on IQ test, and higher percentages of young men in jail. The sneaking suspicion that African-Americans might be inferior goes unchallenged in the hearts of some blacks and many whites. It is all too easy to blame the victim and conclude that people of color are themselves responsible for being on the bottom...the closest we come to analysis is to present a vague feeling of optimism: in race relations, as in everything, our society is constantly getting better...this cheery optimism only compounds the problem, because whites can infer that racism is over."

[The Senator]

I'm going to the bathroom now, fyi... :up:

[Marx]

I'm going to the bathroom now, fyi... :up:

Have a safe journey! (And thanks for sharing!) :hehe:

[ForestAflame]

The black community is not the only community to suffer discrimination...and yet they seem to be the only one that focus on the past to the point that it hurts their present generations.

The facts are: it isn't the past. People jumped straight from being outwardly racist towards blacks to being critical of blacks for complaining about racism. It's like pouring salt on the wound of the black community.

[Marx]

The facts are: it isn't the past. People jumped straight from being outwardly racist towards blacks to being critical of blacks for complaining about racism. It's like pouring salt on the wound of the black community.

It isn't in the past because radicals like (Wright, Sharpton, and Jackson) won't let it go. You'll find that people are alot more accepting of things than they used to be...but to hear these idiots talk, you'd never know that.





(And welcome to the Hype!)

[StorminNorman]

I'm going to the bathroom now, fyi... :up:

Stop wasting time waiting to formulate a response to Spider-Bite's more advanced, more correct and more enlightened responses. :o

[BlackLantern]

"Since the nadir, the climate of race relations has improved, owing especially to the civil rights movement. But massive racial disparities remain...in 2000, African-American and Native American median family incomes averaged only 62 percent of white family income...On average, African-Americans still have worse housing, lower scores on IQ test, and higher percentages of young men in jail. The sneaking suspicion that African-Americans might be inferior goes unchallenged in the hearts of some blacks and many whites. It is all too easy to blame the victim and conclude that people of color are themselves responsible for being on the bottom...the closest we come to analysis is to present a vague feeling of optimism: in race relations, as in everything, our society is constantly getting better...this cheery optimism only compounds the problem, because whites can infer that racism is over."

I see your points, but when, as a 12 year old, had my glasses broken and a book I was carrying be torn apart "because I read too much"...there is something wrong....on both ends. Black people that become successful are still susceptible to harsh criticism from within their own families and community. Aren't we supposed to be happy when someone succeeds...not call them an "Uncle Tom" or "not black anymore"

[The Senator]

Have a safe journey! (And thanks for sharing!) :hehe:

Yeah, it was a tough trip down the hall but I managed.

Stop wasting time waiting to formulate a response to Spider-Bite's more advanced, more correct and more enlightened responses. :o

He's wasting time formulating a response to my responses! He can't come up with an answer!

Why, Spider-Bite, why??? :huh: :dry:

[Marx]

SO how 'bout that Barack Obama guys??? :cwink:

[ForestAflame]

I see your points, but when, as a 12 year old, had my glasses broken and a book I was carrying be torn apart "because I read too much"...there is something wrong....on both ends. Black people that become successful are still susceptible to harsh criticism from within their own families and community. Aren't we supposed to be happy when someone succeeds...not call them an "Uncle Tom" or "not black anymore"

Mocking intellectualism is not something reserved for the black community. Every race of people have participated in it. But...for black individuals to connect the mockery of intelligence to race, it really shows the impact that the society they've grown up in has on their self-esteem.

[BlackLantern]

Mocking intellectualism is not something reserved for the black community. Every race of people have participated in it. But...for black individuals to connect the mockery of intelligence to race, it really shows the impact that the society they've grown up in has on their self-esteem.

I can't speak for anyone else....but a good chunk of it comes from home....my dad always said I should be proud of my intelligence and that people would mock me and want to tear me down...but in the end, intelligence will win out. Now at 29, I have a good paying job and a nice apartment while people who used to deride me are now working at Target (Yes I saw someone I knew from MS working a register at Target)

[Handsome Rob]

I can't speak for anyone else....but a good chunk of it comes from home....my dad always said I should be proud of my intelligence and that people would mock me and want to tear me down...but in the end, intelligence will win out. Now at 29, I have a good paying job and a nice apartment while people who used to deride me are now working at Target (Yes I saw someone I knew from MS working a register at Target)

You're originally from Mississippi? Where? I grew up in Greenville.

[StorminNorman]

SO how 'bout that Barack Obama guys??? :cwink:

I heard he's Mooslim:cmad::cmad:

[BlackLantern]

You're originally from Mississippi? Where? I grew up in Greenville.

I'm sorry...I meant MS as in middle school....I'm from Connecticut....

[Marx]

I heard he's Mooslim:cmad::cmad:

Ohh dear lord! :whatever::cwink:

[BlackLantern]

I heard he's Mooslim:cmad::cmad:

He wants to blow up Amerikuh....!!

[Spider-Bite]

WHAT?

You were responding to a post by BlackLantern, where you asked him if he mistrusted the black community. I responded to your idiotic post with this:



You know why I responded with that? Because BlackLantern is black, or at least he was last time I knew. You were essentially accusing him of mistrusting or disliking other black folks.

Nowhere did I even say that I was "black" nor did I imply such a thing.

But hey, keep proving your ignorance... :whatever:

My mistake. I wish you would have clarified that when you first responded instead of waiting, and creating a bait and switch. however, that only goes to show what I was saying about reverse racism against one's own race. the mistrust is in every community. not just blacks, and black lantern should know that

[Spider-Bite]

Umm... where did you get the idea that journalists become campaign advisers? Because I was under the impression that anyone who knows anything about campaigning can become an adviser. :huh:

the main thing they look for is experience in journalism

[Handsome Rob]

I'm sorry...I meant MS as in middle school....I'm from Connecticut....

Yankee vermin!! :cmad:

:woot:

My bad. I just got all excited that I might meet a Hypester from my home town. :csad:

[Spider-Bite]

:down

Your reliance on an arrogant, condescending, elitist attitude against posters who happen to disagree with you does nothing to establish your credibility.

I can't apologize for sterotypes offending me. that's what happens when your not racist.

[BlackLantern]

Yankee vermin!! :cmad:

:woot:

My bad. I just got all excited that I might meet a Hypester from my home town. :csad:

Sorry...I'm from a place that has equal rights and running water inside the house....:yay:

[BlackLantern]

I can't apologize for sterotypes offending me. that's what happens when your not racist.

I'm not racist....but I know when someone is being serious with a stereotype and when they aren't. Stereotypes only offend people who don't know who they are. I can't count the times I've been called a "n*****" but I know I am not one so it doesn't bother me.

[Marx]

I can't apologize for sterotypes offending me. that's what happens when your not racist.

And once again I would like to say, you can have a discussion on racism without being racist. Addressing stereotypes are often part of that discussion.

[The Senator]

the main thing they look for is experience in journalism

Who looks for that? Maybe it depends on the candidate, but in my experience I don't know anyone who is a political adviser and has an undergraduate degree in journalism.

[StorminNorman]

I can't apologize for sterotypes offending me. that's what happens when your not racist.

Being someone who is not racist - I would agree, but when the point being made was of the black community in general (and not individual black Americans) - truthful sterotypes are okay.

[SentinelMind]

I think lot of the problems afflicting the black community is more of self-esteem, destruction of identity rather than simply economic hardships. I think the experiences black American underwent were significantly worse than other immigrants....first off I don't see how you can compare immigrating here as a poor manservant to being descendants of second class citizens. I think the fact that most immigrants chose to come here, albiet faced economic hardship whereas black descendents were coerced here to live in an environment where they are treated as inferior to whites....lost connection to forefathers, understanding of their history, pride, accomplishment, produced a pscyhological attitude within the black culture that has impaired their ability to cope.

Essentially, lack of identity and purpose of many in black community and sense of hopelessness is what I think is holding blacks back. I think their unique history (not their DNA) is what caused them to have this experience distinct which created this cultural phenomenon that you don't see in other other races.

[Handsome Rob]

Sorry...I'm from a place that has equal rights and running water inside the house....:yay:

:lmao: Cold. So cold!

Seriously, when I was in my sophomore year of college, this guy pledging my fraternity from somewhere up north asked me where I was from. When I told him I was from Mississippi, he looked me dead in the eye (and I swear he was not joking around) and asked, "So, are you in the KKK?"

I just looked at him . . .

He didn't make it in. :cwink:

[BlackLantern]

I think lot of the problems afflicting the black community is more of self-esteem, destruction of identity rather than simply economic hardships. I think the experiences black American underwent were significantly worse than other immigrants....first off I don't see how you can compare immigrating here as a poor manservant to being descendants of second class citizens. I think the fact that most immigrants chose to come here, albiet faced economic hardship whereas black descendents were coerced here to live in an environment where they are treated as inferior to whites....lost connection to forefathers, understanding of their history, pride, accomplishment, produced a pscyhological attitude within the black culture that has impaired their ability to cope.

Essentially, lack of identity and purpose of many in black community and sense of hopelessness is what I think is holding blacks back. I think their unique history (not their DNA) is what caused them to have this experience distinct which created this cultural phenomenon that you don't see in other other races.

and the hip-hop culture (BET and such) isn't helping matters any

[StorminNorman]

the main thing they look for is experience in journalism

:lmao:

[Matt]

No one is blaming the victim Forest. However, lets say a man is mugged, the mugger serves his time in prison and gets out. Is it okay for the victim to follow him around and constantly remind him and everyone around him of his past crime? Sometimes you just have to leave the past in the past. The black community has reached the point where it is perpetuating its own problems based on the past.

And y'know what Spider-Bite, yes, there are radicals in every community, but the black community seems to celebrate these radicals. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are considered leaders of the black community. Rap music is now ingrained as part of the African American culture, yet it is music that endorses rape, murder, drug use and denounces education, family, etc. No other community is as open about its disdain over the past. You can debate that until the cows come home but basically any sociological study will say otherwise. To say we are racist for acknowledging this on a discussion about race is both naive and over-sensitive.

[BlackLantern]

Matt has a black actor (using the term actor loosely) as his avatar....He is hardly racist...

[Matt]

I think lot of the problems afflicting the black community is more of self-esteem, destruction of identity rather than simply economic hardships. I think the experiences black American underwent were significantly worse than other immigrants....first off I don't see how you can compare immigrating here as a poor manservant to being descendants of second class citizens. I think the fact that most immigrants chose to come here, albiet faced economic hardship whereas black descendents were coerced here to live in an environment where they are treated as inferior to whites....lost connection to forefathers, understanding of their history, pride, accomplishment, produced a pscyhological attitude within the black culture that has impaired their ability to cope.

Essentially, lack of identity and purpose of many in black community and sense of hopelessness is what I think is holding blacks back. I think their unique history (not their DNA) is what caused them to have this experience distinct which created this cultural phenomenon that you don't see in other other races.

I think to an extent, the culture encourages a general sense of rebellion from the norm. Rap music, "black shows and movies," etc. They portray the only acceptable way of life for a black person is in a constant state of conflict with the white man. They portray the use of drugs, the neglect of education, etc as a way of rebelling against the white man when in fact it is the opposite.

[Matt]

Matt has a black actor (using the term actor loosely) as his avatar....He is hardly racist...

IKYN guy was robbed of the best supporting actor Oscar :o

[Spider-Bite]

Who looks for that? Maybe it depends on the candidate, but in my experience I don't know anyone who is a political adviser and has an undergraduate degree in journalism.

the vast majority of advisors started out in journalism. I decided my career path with the help of my caseworker, I have a casworker because I get diability services due to my General Anxiety Disorder, my academic advisors, and my Political Professor.

They want people with experience in communicating with the public, and influencing the views of the public.

[ForestAflame]

I think to an extent, the culture encourages a general sense of rebellion from the norm. Rap music, "black shows and movies," etc. They portray the only acceptable way of life for a black person is in a constant state of conflict with the white man. They portray the use of drugs, the neglect of education, etc as a way of rebelling against the white man when in fact it is the opposite.

That's because white oppression had made rebellion an integral part of African-American culture. It didn't just appear because black people are naturally rebellious, it was there because they didn't have the necessary freedoms to begin with. Another reason intelligence is looked down upon is because it seems to be synonymous with assimilation (even though it's not). It's like somebody beating you and kicking you and then saying "Okay, we can be friends now."

And you can say that some individual whites don't fall into that category. Fair enough. But then some individual blacks don't fall into the "drugs and neglect of education". If we're to look at communities as a whole, there are inherent flaws with both that have been inherited throughout the generations down to the 21st century, ensuring that certain social prejudices and pressures will always exist.

[Spider-Bite]

And once again I would like to say, you can have a discussion on racism without being racist. Addressing stereotypes are often part of that discussion.


some peoplehere are not simply adressing them. They believe them. Members have stereotyped the Irish, Italians, Whites, and Blacks.

[BlackLantern]

the vast majority of advisors started out in journalism. I decided my career path with the help of my caseworker, I have a casworker because I get diability services due to my General Anxiety Disorder, my academic advisors, and my Political Professor.

They want people with experience in communicating with the public, and influencing the views of the public.

I could be totally ignorant here and claim your leeching off the taxpayers and the government...but I won't...Like i said before...I don't think there is any particular track to being a political or campaign adviser....I bet if you talked to any 4 or 5 such people, there paths would be very different.

[ForestAflame]

Also rap music's original purpose was to illustrate the problems that black people face...not exacerbate them.

[BlackLantern]

Also rap music's original purpose was to illustrate the problems that black people face...not exacerbate them.

Well todays' rap is hardly contributing anything....I don't know too many people who can afford multiple bottles of Cristal...much less afford to be pouring it over someones' butt...

[ObakeTora]

I'm not racist....but I know when someone is being serious with a stereotype and when they aren't. Stereotypes only offend people who don't know who they are. I can't count the times I've been called a "n*****" but I know I am not one so it doesn't bother me.

Im not one either, but it bothers me. If you call me that word you better be standing away from me at a distance. :cmad:

[Spider-Bite]

:lmao:

me and my caseworker went to website full of help wanted ads, placed by senators looking for advisors. Almost all of them said "Journalism experience required."

I had assumed that a major in political science was the way to go, but that's not the case. Majors in Political Science go on to become Judges and Attorneys.

Laugh all you want, but this is reality.

[ForestAflame]

Well todays' rap is hardly contributing anything....I don't know too many people who can afford multiple bottles of Cristal...much less afford to be pouring it over someones' butt...

I'm going to quote one of today's rap songs.

"Hip-Hop is sweeping the nation, but the contents seem so degrading,
Most rappers got new albums that white kids are anticipating,
If you don't like it on the radio or the television then switch the station"

[Matt]

That's because white oppression had made rebellion an integral part of African-American culture. It didn't just appear because black people are naturally rebellious, it was there because they didn't have the necessary freedoms to begin with. Another reason intelligence is looked down upon is because it seems to be synonymous with assimilation (even though it's not). It's like somebody beating you and kicking you and then saying "Okay, we can be friends now."

The difference is, the country has made retributions to the black community. Affirmitive action, countless civil rights laws and government sponsored programs to aide in the advancment of the African Americans, etc. Its not like we aren't trying. How long should bitterness last? There is a time when you have to let the past be the past. Especially when a good majority of your population did not live through or experience this horrible past.


And you can say that some individual whites don't fall into that category. Fair enough. But then some individual blacks don't fall into the "drugs and neglect of education". If we're to look at communities as a whole, there are inherent flaws with both that have been inherited throughout the generations down to the 21st century, ensuring that certain social prejudices and pressures will always exist.

I said both. In fact, one man I am citing very often in this discussion is Bill Cosby. Clearly he was able to avoid the bad conditions and he would also agree that it is time to move on.

[SentinelMind]

Major in math or a hard natural science and get a job working for an agency, and then develop your communication and political skills outside classes.....then you'll stand out amongst your friends who chose the easy political science/subjective social studies crap...

[Matt]

I'm going to quote one of today's rap songs.

"Hip-Hop is sweeping the nation, but the contents seem so degrading,
Most rappers got new albums that white kids are anticipating,
If you don't like it on the radio or the television then switch the station"

No one is calling for censorship. We are discussing why the black community is in the position it is in. Like it or not, rap music and the influence it has on black youth is a very valid reason.

[ForestAflame]

I said both. In fact, one man I am citing very often in this discussion is Bill Cosby. Clearly he was able to avoid the bad conditions and he would also agree that it is time to move on.

:hehe:

[Spider-Bite]

No one is blaming the victim Forest. However, lets say a man is mugged, the mugger serves his time in prison and gets out. Is it okay for the victim to follow him around and constantly remind him and everyone around him of his past crime? Sometimes you just have to leave the past in the past. The black community has reached the point where it is perpetuating its own problems based on the past.

And y'know what Spider-Bite, yes, there are radicals in every community, but the black community seems to celebrate these radicals. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are considered leaders of the black community. Rap music is now ingrained as part of the African American culture, yet it is music that endorses rape, murder, drug use and denounces education, family, etc. No other community is as open about its disdain over the past. You can debate that until the cows come home but basically any sociological study will say otherwise. To say we are racist for acknowledging this on a discussion about race is both naive and over-sensitive.

Wrong. There are individuals within the black community who do this. The black community as a whole does not. In face the vast majority of the younger generation does not. Your stereotype is incorrect.

And why do people always specifically target rap music as doing these things? I shot the sheriff anybody? Rock music, folk music, country music, they all sing about the same stuff. Just look at Johny Cash and the Highway Men album he made with those other guys. good songs and melodies, but it's all about ****s, drugs, gangs, prostitutes, cuban refugess, and killing cops.

why does rap music get singled out? Look at Heavy Metal. Are it's messages any more moral? Hell I love Ozzy Ozbourne and Guns & Roses, but the messages contained in the lyrics are less than positive to say the least.

to quote Axle Rose on the song One in a Million, "immigrants and ***gots. something, something, they come to our country, and spread some ffffing disease." He has also thrown around the N word as well.

[BlackLantern]

No one is calling for censorship. We are discussing why the black community is in the position it is in. Like it or not, rap music and the influence it has on black youth is a very valid reason.

We have way too many young black kids thinking that a career in Rap music or sports is the ONLY way to a better life....

[StorminNorman]

me and my caseworker went to website full of help wanted ads, placed by senators looking for advisors. Almost all of them said "Journalism experience required."

I had assumed that a major in political science was the way to go, but that's not the case. Majors in Political Science go on to become Judges and Attorneys.

Laugh all you want, but this is reality.

My father is a political adviser (if that is the job you covet, my want to spell it correctly) and he has assured me that while Journalism classes can be helpful to a consultant - they are not crucial.

The various Congressman I have talked to (who I have come to for interning and an eventual position) have assured me that a political science tract is fine.

Everyone i have spoken to has stated experience in politics is the most valuable thing one can have.

[Spider-Bite]

My father is a political adviser (if that is the job you covet, my want to spell it correctly) and he has assured me that while Journalism classes can be helpful to a consultant - they are not crucial.

The various Congressman I have talked to (who I have come to for interning and an eventual position) have assured me that a political science tract is fine.

Everyone i have spoken to has stated experience in politics is the most valuable thing one can have.

Obviously, but before you can get experienced in politics in the first place, outside of running for office, you need journalism experience. That might be the opinion of your father, but numbers and math do not lie. The vast majority of Political Science majors are judges and attorneys. In fact once you get far enough up in political science classes, it's all about law. the eariler classes which I have taken and continue to take, are all about ideaology, comapring government levels and processes in this country to other countries, the media, sufferage, history and so on.

Proud to say that politics class I just got an A in, has the third highest fail rate of any class at my school. Never once studied. sold my text book a long time ago even, becuase I didn't need it. Showed up to most classes stoned, took my tests, and got As oneverything I did.

[SentinelMind]

Wrong. There are individuals within the black community who do this. The black community as a whole does not. In face the vast majority of the younger generation does not. Your stereotype is incorrect.

And why do people always specifically target rap music as doing these things? I shot the sheriff anybody? Rock music, folk music, country music, they all sing about the same stuff. Just look at Johny Cash and the Highway Men album he made with those other guys. good songs and melodies, but it's all about ****s, drugs, gangs, prostitutes, cuban refugess, and killing cops.

why does rap music get singled out? Look at Heavy Metal. Are it's messages any more moral? Hell I love Ozzy Ozbourne and Guns & Roses, but the messages contained in the lyrics are less than positive to say the least.

to quote Axle Rose on the song One in a Million, "immigrants and ***gots. something, something, they come to our country, and spread some ffffing disease." He has also thrown around the N word as well.

White music listeners , mature ones, don't identify themselves by the lyrics in those type of music. They don't think Johnny Cash epitomizes who they are suppose to be,....he provides an escapist, fantasy entertainment....like watching an action movie.

Rap entertainment is viewed same way by suburban whites. Most rap musc listeners are white..........but by many in urban black youths as an identity, as a role model, or something to emulate. While whites have all these role models.....young blacks see gangster rap music as something to emulate......when that is your only source of inspiration and you don't have good parents to guide you...(out of marriage births for blacks skyrocketing)....that can be a serious problem.

I think Thomas Sowell and many conservatives have pronounced that family values, strengthening the family unit is paramount to producing an environment where self-respect, love, and educated are nurtured. Without that, and you see decadent crap being pummelled as your culture...then its a problem.

[Spider-Bite]

We have way too many young black kids thinking that a career in Rap music or sports is the ONLY way to a better life....


wow. I havent' met a single one. I know a guy who is majoring in music, he's amazing at making rap beats, but he doesn't think it's the only way to a better life. He's even thinking about chaning his major to Economics, because he likes it.

Out of the black friends in my circle, one is majoring in biological science, one is majoring in criminal justice, one is going to be an english teacher. these are just the three who are in my close circle of friends. Aside from the one mentioned in above paragraph, I actually don't personally know any pursuing a career in sports or rap. Seriously, these stereotypes are not useful, and only serve to prevent people from seeing the truth.

[StorminNorman]

Obviously, but before you can get experienced in politics in the first place, outside of running for office, you need journalism experience. That might be the opinion of your father, but numbers and math do not lie. The vast majority of Political Science majors are judges and attorneys. In fact once you get far enough up in political science classes, it's all about law. the eariler classes which I have taken and continue to take, are all about ideaology, comapring government levels and processes in this country to other countries, the media, sufferage, history and so on.

No - you really don't. All you need to get political experience is to work hard for a successful campaign. I have multiple friends working for multiple politicians with this fairly universal plan.

The majority of Political Science majors end up at law school yes, and many politicians ask their young, youthful workers to go to law school - but that does not mean that that is the only end for a Poly Sci major.

Proud to say that politics class I just got an A in, has the third highest fail rate of any class at my school. Never once studied. sold my text book a long time ago even, becuase I didn't need it. Showed up to most classes stoned, took my tests, and got As oneverything I did.

Want a cookie :huh:

[Spider-Bite]

White music listeners , mature ones, don't identify themselves by the lyrics in those type of music. They don't think Johnny Cash epitomizes who they are suppose to be,....he provides an escapist, fantasy entertainment....like watching an action movie.

Oh that's right. I forgot all white people are the same and all blacks are the same.

wrong. How many white people emulate rock star's lifestyle of sex, drugs, rock and roll, mohwaks, ripped jeans, and tatoos? There are people like that in both races, and there are people who choose to reject that in both races.


Rap entertainment is viewed same way by suburban whites. Most rap musc listeners are white..........but by many in urban black youths as an identity, as a role model, or something to emulate. While whites have all these role models.....young blacks see gangster rap music as something to emulate......when that is your only source of inspiration and you don't have good parents to guide you...(out of marriage births for blacks skyrocketing)....that can be a serious problem.

I think Thomas Sowell and many conservatives have pronounced that family values, strengthening the family unit is paramount to producing an environment where self-respect, love, and educated are nurtured. Without that, and you see decadent crap being pummelled as your culture...then its a problem.
[/QUOTE]

how many white people sag their pants, walking around flashing gang signs, and trying to talk ghetto?

The ratio of people who talk intelligently to people who talk ghetto is approxiamtely the same for both races. People just don't see it. But next time your out and about do an inventory check. Just count em out. You'd be suprised how much alike blacks and whites are, if you just give em a chance.

[Spider-Bite]

No - you really don't. All you need to get political experience is to work hard for a successful campaign. I have multiple friends working for multiple politicians with this fairly universal plan.

The majority of Political Science majors end up at law school yes, and many politicians ask their young, youthful workers to go to law school - but that does not mean that that is the only end for a Poly Sci major.



Want a cookie :huh:

the recommendations I have gotten from English and Political Professors is either a major in Journalism and aminor in pol, or a masters in journalism and a bachelor's in Political Science. I appreciate the advice, but I have to take theirs.

[Marx]

some peoplehere are not simply adressing them. They believe them. Members have stereotyped the Irish, Italians, Whites, and Blacks.

And who are you to pass judgement on those who are addressing/saying these stereotypes in this thread? I'm not trying to be difficult or disrespectful, I am simply saying you seem to like implying that everyone who mentions something about race or oppression is somehow racist. And that's just not true.

[SentinelMind]

how many white people sag their pants, walking around flashing gang signs, and trying to talk ghetto?

The ratio of people who talk intelligently to people who talk ghetto is approxiamtely the same for both races. People just don't see it. But next time your out and about do an inventory check. Just count em out. You'd be suprised how much alike blacks and whites are, if you just give em a chance.

based on what??? hopefully not ideology.

[Varient]

Just for the record, you are wrong. Obama has described Wright as his campaign's spiritual advisor. He was a staff member. And quit playing the ****ing race card. You're better than that. Obama brought an extremist, radical, racist onto his staff. Furthermore, he went to his church for 20 years. You can say the family analogy all you want, but the fact is, Wright isn't family. Wright is a man Obama CHOSE to have an association with, knowing full well what his radical beliefs were. Furthermore, Obama lied when this scandal first broke. "People are racist," is not the reason this is an issue.

Tell me this Spider-Bite, if it came out that John McCain went to KKK rallies for 20 years and had the grand dragon as a staff member, and baptize his children, etc would you say "Well, I have family who are racist too?" In this scenario McCain did not do anything violent, he simply went to the rallies, and listening to the grand dragon preach racism. That situation isn't far off from Obama's.

You should know better than to equivalate the pastor of a church with the leader of an oganization based on hatred of difference and take parts of his 30 plus years of sermoning and being a spiritual leader to be the same as having the grand Dragon of the KKK on staff.

Why are you trying to start an argument?

That was so unfair to wright as to be criminal.

It would be like my picking a white person I don't like and saying he's exactly the same sort as Hitler.


V.

[Varient]

I heard that when Obama was hanging a picture in his living room he hit his finger with a hammer and yelled, "Oh, DARN!" Can't tell you how sickened and repulsed I was to hear that. My God, I certainly hope there were no children around . . .

Hmmn.
Still here? U must be a Sybil Known to the Mods.

V.

[Marx]

Well this just keeps getting more and more interesting.

[Spider-Bite]

based on what??? hopefully not ideology.


I shouldn't use the word intelligently. Basically what I meant was people speaking English as opposed to speaking ghetto. Sometiems I don't even understand what they are saying.

[Varient]

Obama just challenged McCain (and President Bush) for a debate on foreign policy and protecting the country.

Is that a smart move on Obama's part?
Yes - for two reasons.
1. if they accept it paints him even more as a viable canidate and the "assumed democratic canidate. He could keep the topics to the weather and still make points BECAUSE the repub canidate and the current Prez will talk to him.

2. If he has better explanations and fewer holes in his policies than the other two,.. he pulls more teeth out on his supposed lack of foriegn policy experience.

Like a literal debate? If so it is kind of stupid. Bush isn't going to accept as why would he? And it is arrogant to challenge McCain to a debate when his own primary is not yet over. It comes off as grandstanding. He should not be getting in the mud with Bush, because that is exactly what Bush wants. He made a crazed statement with hopes of getting Obama on the tilt, and it seems to be working if Obama gave that knee jerk reaction.

I disagree,.. see reasons above.

V.

[StorminNorman]

You should know better than to equivalate the pastor of a church with the leader of an oganization based on hatred of difference and take parts of his 30 plus years of sermoning and being a spiritual leader to be the same as having the grand Dragon of the KKK on staff.

Why are you trying to start an argument?

That was so unfair to wright as to be criminal.

It would be like my picking a white person I don't like and saying he's exactly the same sort as Hitler.


V.

So a pastor of a church can't be evil? Thats funny.

The statements made by Wright are every bit as ridiculous and wrong as the statements made by KKK grandwizards. Both preach and control based on hate and dividing the country along racial lines.

It would be like you comparing some white person (who just happened to want to try to eliminate a religious group) to Hitler :up:

[Spider-Bite]

And who are you to pass judgement on those who are addressing/saying these stereotypes in this thread? I'm not trying to be difficult or disrespectful, I am simply saying you seem to like implying that everyone who mentions something about race or oppression is somehow racist. And that's just not true.


I didn't say that. I'm saying that when you stereotypes blacks as being a bunch of inamture, paranoid, white people haters, you are then being prejudiced. And honestly Matt did that.

http://forums.superherohype.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?p=14819548#post14819548)
The black community is not the only community to suffer discrimination...and yet they seem to be the only one that focus on the past to the point that it hurts their present generations.


Apparently Matt never heard of Osama Bin Laden and his followers.

[StorminNorman]

Yes - for two reasons.
1. if they accept it paints him even more as a viable canidate and the "assumed democratic canidate. He could keep the topics to the weather and still make points BECAUSE the repub canidate and the current Prez will talk to him.

Well Bush won't do it - but McCain should. He doesn't need to be painted as the "assumed democratic candidate" because he already is.

2. If he has better explanations and fewer holes in his policies than the other two,.. he pulls more teeth out on his supposed lack of foriegn policy experience.

Thats a rather large if.

[Spider-Bite]

So a pastor of a church can't be evil? Thats funny.

The statements made by Wright are every bit as ridiculous and wrong as the statements made by KKK grandwizards. Both preach and control based on hate and dividing the country along racial lines.

It would be like you comparing some white person (who just happened to want to try to eliminate a religious group) to Hitler :up:


Well actually the KKK's mission was origiinally to prevent blacks from acheiving equality, and today it's to restore to their past status. They never had any reason other than their color. People like Wright are bitter about being wronged in the past, where as the KKK was not wronged in the first place. Basically the KKK started it, and Wright wants to finish it.

I'm not saying Wright is enlightened nor correct in his outrageous theories, but there is a difference. One was wronged and wants revenge, and one was simply wrong to begin with.

[Marx]

I didn't say that. I'm saying that when you stereotypes blacks as being a bunch of inamture, paranoid, white people haters, you are then being prejudiced. And honestly Matt did that.


Matt has not done that, nor has anyone else in this thread. I'm not quite sure why you continue to try to inject something into this thread that isn't there.


Apparently Matt never heard of Osama Bin Laden and his followers.

I can assure you, he has.

[StorminNorman]

Well actually the KKK's mission was origiinally to prevent blacks from acheiving equality, and today it's to restore to their past status. They never had any reason other than their color. People like Wright are bitter about being wronged in the past, where as the KKK was not wronged in the first place. Basically the KKK started it, and Wright wants to finish it.

Thats not an excuse - not when equality has be reached (again, Wright himself has lived the American dream).

For Wright to continue on with his racist attacks is simply that - racist. He is no worse nor better than your KKK grandwizard - except for the fact that he has credibility.

I'm not saying Wright is enlightened nor correct in his outrageous theories, but there is a difference. One was wronged and wants revenge, and one was simply wrong to begin with.

Revenge is not an excuse for ignorance and racism.

[redfirebird2008]

Norman, equality has been reached? I think that's an exaggeration right there. There was a recent study that found 50% of police stops in New York were done to black people, yet they only make up 25% of the population. Good, hardworking black people have dealt with the "driving while black" profiling for years and it still goes on today. There's nothing equal in that treatment.

[Spider-Bite]

[quote=StorminNorman;14820852]Thats not an excuse - not when equality has be reached (again, Wright himself has lived the American dream).

Your preaching to the choir here. I never, ever said it was an excuse. I said repeatedly he is wrong.


For Wright to continue on with his racist attacks is simply that - racist. He is no worse nor better than your KKK grandwizard - except for the fact that he has credibility.

I said he was racist. Why are you repeating what I said as if I didn't say it?


Revenge is not an excuse for ignorance and racism.
I never said it was. In fact I am very anti-revenge. It never solves anything. But comparing Obama's attendance to that church to attending a KKK church is just as paranoid, delusional, and crazy as the things Wright has said. I mean seriously, you really think Obama is simiiliar to the KKK? If you want on the airwaves saying that, you'd be laughed off the air by America. To compare Obama to the KKK is a pretty big leap of faith.

[ForestAflame]

Thats not an excuse - not when equality has be reached (again, Wright himself has lived the American dream).

For Wright to continue on with his racist attacks is simply that - racist. He is no worse nor better than your KKK grandwizard - except for the fact that he has credibility.



Revenge is not an excuse for ignorance and racism.

"Since the nadir, the climate of race relations has improved, owing especially to the civil rights movement. But massive racial disparities remain...in 2000, African-American and Native American median family incomes averaged only 62 percent of white family income...On average, African-Americans still have worse housing, lower scores on IQ test, and higher percentages of young men in jail. The sneaking suspicion that African-Americans might be inferior goes unchallenged in the hearts of some blacks and many whites. It is all too easy to blame the victim and conclude that people of color are themselves responsible for being on the bottom...the closest we come to analysis is to present a vague feeling of optimism: in race relations, as in everything, our society is constantly getting better...this cheery optimism only compounds the problem, because whites can infer that racism is over."

:whatever:

[Spider-Bite]

[quote=TheMarx;14820850]Matt has not done that, nor has anyone else in this thread. I'm not quite sure why you continue to try to inject something into this thread that isn't there.

He did it right there in that quote. and a whole bunch of people hopped on and agreed that only black people are that stupid, while all the other races are better than that.


I can assure you, he has.
I'm sure he has to, but apparently he forgot about them.

[Marx]

Thats not an excuse - not when equality has be reached (again, Wright himself has lived the American dream).

For Wright to continue on with his racist attacks is simply that - racist. He is no worse nor better than your KKK grandwizard - except for the fact that he has credibility.



Revenge is not an excuse for ignorance and racism.

Well said Norm.

[Spider-Bite]

Well said Norm.


All he did was state what everybody here already knew.

The sky is blue, pats self on back, Well said spider-bite!

Not impressed.

[Marx]

[quote]

He did it right there in that quote. and a whole bunch of people hopped on and agreed that only black people are that stupid, while all the other races are better than that.


This conversation has been dominated by issues of race in the black community. That's not to say that everyone in this thread doesn't believe in other aspects of racism. You're either being incredibly nit-picky and selective or just overly sensitive.


I'm sure he has to, but apparently he forgot about them.

Sigh.

[StorminNorman]

Norman, equality has been reached? I think that's an exaggeration right there. There was a recent study that found 50% of police stops in New York were done to black people, yet they only make up 25% of the population. Good, hardworking black people have dealt with the "driving while black" profiling for years and it still goes on today. There's nothing equal in that treatment.

Wright has lives a life of luxury in America - he has reached the American dream. He is first hand proof that the America he lives in now gives blacks a chance to succeed - the same goes for Sharpton and Jackson. However instead of spreading THIS message, they rage about how America isn't fair, how the man keeps the black man down, etc.

Are there members of society (including cops) who are racist? Sure. Most of the institutional racism, however, is a thing of the past.

[Marx]

All he did was state what everybody here already knew.

The sky is blue, pats self on back, Well said spider-bite!

Not impressed.

Respect and courtesy go a long way in this forum Spider. Sarcasm and insults do not.

[redfirebird2008]

Wright has lives a life of luxury in America - he has reached the American dream. He is first hand proof that the America he lives in now gives blacks a chance to succeed - the same goes for Sharpton and Jackson. However instead of spreading THIS message, they rage about how America isn't fair, how the man keeps the black man down, etc.

Are there members of society (including cops) who are racist? Sure. Most of the institutional racism, however, is a thing of the past.

I agree completely with you about Wright and his ilk being HUGE hypocrites.