The Joker's Role in the Third Film [Archive]

Hyden

12-20-2007, 06:30 AM

I think it's been out there, even before Begins was released, that they were gonna let the Joker live to come back in 3 for this planned trilogy (it was said by Goyer in some interviews as to the general structure of the sequels)
But with all the room being made for Two-Face for 3, what role will the Joker have to play? No doubt Joker is a focal major focus of this film, but I can't imagine his story concluding before Batmans and frankly, I can't get enough of the Heath Joker and how he's seeming to fit in to Nolan's world so perfectly. If 3 is to be the final act in the Nolanverse, I can't imagine there not being some room made for a last laugh/final showdown with the ultimate of arch-nemeses.
So, how do you think Joker should be handled for 3? And how will he stand with Harvey?
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Thread Addendum
There's nothing wrong with discussion on this topic, fanciful as it might be in lieu of Nolan's statements. The director has been consistent in his aversion to Dick Grayson's inclusion in the series and I see no swelling of support, calling for removal of that topic from the forum's offerings. The same can be said for any other number of existing threads here concerning ideas that don't have the proverbial snowball's chance of coming to fruition.

I was under the impression that a commonality of respect could be afforded in carrying on here without too much bellyaching. Alternatively, that such bickering would subside in time. Apparently not.

This is simple. There's a difference between voicing an opinion and trolling and there's certainly no mandate to post in this thread. Those who can do nothing but repeatedly decry the thread's presence, make their lot toward the latter and be will be infracted/probated/removed/cast to the lions. Get over it.

GregComicFan

12-23-2007, 07:15 PM

There's not really any way to say until TDK comes out...

How does the Joker end up?
incarcerated?
on the loose?

What is the Joker's relationship to Two-Face?
Hateful?
Neutral?
do they team-up?

I do think it will be challenging to give Two-Face top billing with the Joker still running around. The Joker ALWAYS steals the steam away from all other villains. But somehow it'll work out...

dolfan55aj

12-23-2007, 10:38 PM

uh oh, Joker in the third installment, i say bad idea...we've seen movies with more than one main villain and they didn't work out that great...at least of what I remember

GregComicFan

12-23-2007, 10:51 PM

Sometimes it works... sometimes it doesn't...

Batman Begins...

Joe Chill
Mr. Zsasz
Falcone
Scarecrow
Ras Al Ghul

all of them were used well, had multiple scenes, and all of them were villains...

RobC

12-24-2007, 06:30 AM

Joker should definitely be in the 3rd. Killing off the villians was one of the major flaws in the Burton/Schumacher films IMO.

Keep him in, but give him a reduced role. Nolan ill sort it though, has he let us down with any *major* pacing or plotting elements so far?

I guarantee that now i'll get a hundred replies about how he has...

Punk&ComicBooks

12-25-2007, 12:59 AM

Wat i would like-

1.Ofcourse the joker not being killed off

2.Two-face is definatley the main villain for the third

3.I dont want the joker in any action scenes at all as a matter of fact. I would rather his whole role be played in Arkham, in his cell, in that straight jacket.

Now heres the part where a lot of you will jump down my throat for not knowing what the hell it is `exactly` that I want- Theres something that the joker knows that batman needs to find out in order to catch two-face....what is it? Guess what i dont kno, maybe it`ll be lyk something from silence of the lambs where you need to get in the mind of a psychopath in order to help catch another. But thats my basic concept and the reason why I would want it that way is because we`re going to get all the joker in TDK, lets be fair- he`s the main villain then and two-face will take the glory in the third.

TLH

12-25-2007, 10:31 AM

I agree with keeping the Joker in Arkham for the third movie, perhaps with Batman having no choice but to consult him for some information. How awesome would it be to see Heath's Joker in a straightjacket, defeated and locked up for good...confronted by somebody of power who needs him. That would be so awesome. I can see it now. The dark lighting in the cell, the Joker coming out of nowhere. Grr...want...Joker...now.

Punk&ComicBooks

12-25-2007, 03:40 PM

^yup! and ofcourse batmans task of getting the joker to talk wont be an easy one. Seeing that challenge will be interesting as well

Mr. Socko

12-25-2007, 04:58 PM

Sometimes it works... sometimes it doesn't...

Batman Begins...

Joe Chill
Mr. Zsasz
Falcone
Scarecrow
Ras Al Ghul

all of them were used well, had multiple scenes, and all of them were villains...

In the context of the film, Zsasz was not a villain...yet people always say he is simply because he's a villain in the comics. Zsasz was simply a cameo in the film, he did nothing but stand around, what was villainous about him? Nothing that I can think of. In all honesty, Flass was much more of a villain in Batman Begins than Zsasz.

He was no more of a threat or villain than any of the other random thugs you saw in the film, I don't see you listing the man with the gun yelling "where are you" as a villain. They had about the same amount of screentime. In Batman Begins they simply pegged the name "Zsasz" to a random thug who was in two scenes, and wasn't the major focus of either of them. He didn't even look like the character, so for that matter, he was ZINO in a way. As much of a way as he was a villain...

Punk&ComicBooks

12-25-2007, 08:23 PM

Ok well maybe Zsasz shouldnt be ranked as a villain in the sense that he didnt do anything in the film...but you dont even have to be a comic reader to kno that that dude was definatley a bad guy lol. I`m not too familiar with his character in the comics but at least they had all the stitchy looking scars and stuff when it comes to appearance.

Reflectionist

01-03-2008, 11:08 PM

Now heres the part where a lot of you will jump down my throat for not knowing what the hell it is `exactly` that I want- Theres something that the joker knows that batman needs to find out in order to catch two-face....what is it? Guess what i dont kno, maybe it`ll be lyk something from silence of the lambs where you need to get in the mind of a psychopath in order to help catch another. But thats my basic concept and the reason why I would want it that way is because we`re going to get all the joker in TDK, lets be fair- he`s the main villain then and two-face will take the glory in the third.

This kind of made me laugh, because it reminded me of something... lol.

Gordon: Could be any one of them, but which one? W— which ones?
O'Hara: [gasps]
Batman: Pretty fishy what happened to me on that ladder.
Gordon: You mean, where there's a fish, there could be a Penguin.
Robin: But wait! It happened at sea! See? "C" for Catwoman!
Batman: Yet... an exploding shark was pulling my leg!
Gordon: The Joker!
O'Hara: all adds up to a sinister riddle. Riddle-er. Riddler?
Gordon: Oh! A thought strikes me! So dreadful I scarcely dare give it utterance.
Batman: The four of them. Their forces [I]combined...
Robin: Holy nightmare!

From "Batman (1966)"

thejon93

01-03-2008, 11:18 PM

killingyouguy

01-03-2008, 11:21 PM

I know Goyer said that they were going to have Joker scar Dent in the third movie, but we know that's not going to happen. Dent gets scarred in TDK. I see no reason for Joker to be in the third.

I don't want to see him killed off, just sent to Arkham. Keeping the option to bring the character back in the future open. But in BB3 I want the focus on Two-Face and whoever the other villain will be (hopefully Catwoman).

elgato

01-07-2008, 10:46 AM

He's been put in control at Arkaham, after the Scarecrow's incident (BB) the director hires a new psychiatrist, doctor Harleen Milerr. She's interested in Joker's origin and motifs, unconciously, she starts falling in love with him. One night, the Joker intents scaping and Batman stops and outrageously beats him, Harleen gets impacted with the way his Mr J. was beat up, that she turns a frak like him and helps him scape, then, he plans a way to kill Batman once and for all (that's all part of the SHADOW OF THE BAT SCRIPT I'M WORKIN' ON)

ashminator

01-07-2008, 11:39 AM

ashminator

01-07-2008, 11:44 AM

but at the end or near to it if he esacapes and its left open or somthing dramatic happens because of it before being caught and sent back in the loony bin

olemonica

01-07-2008, 11:50 AM

In the end you see The Joker talking to a shrink(that would be Harley Quinn).

And in the end of the end you see Two-Face wanting revenge.

that's how i hope it will be.

ashminator

01-07-2008, 11:57 AM

happiness = reality minus expectations

nolan hasnt made a bad film yet im sure we will all be pleased in the end no matter what

Spideyfan01

01-07-2008, 12:18 PM

weezerspider

01-07-2008, 01:18 PM

I read somewhere that the third film would be a sorta "Trial of The Joker" set-up but I don't know whether that's going down or not.

Yeah I read that too. I'd like that for the first part. Then in the middle, he could be in Arkham and confronted by Batman. In the finale, he could break out and clash with Batman one last time.

Reflectionist

01-07-2008, 02:21 PM

So, from what we know about TDK, the mob turns to the Joker, a man they "didn't fully understand." And the guy who replaces Falcone at the helm is Maroni. And Maroni scars Dent in the court scene. And considering Dent is in a pact with Gordon and Batman to capture the Joker throughout TDK....

I think it's pretty obvious that Dent knows that the Joker is sort of heading up the Mob, so indirectly, the Joker scars Dent. Wouldn't that set the stage nicely for Two-Face to want revenge on the Joker throughout Batman 3?

Keep in mind the Justice over Revenge thing : Dent wouldn't go this way anymore. After being scarred I would guess he goes through a super depressed state and comes out on the other side in a Ra's Al Ghul state of mind where "Gotham is beyond saving" and revenge is the only way to take out the Joker. Collateral Damage ensues to the max, and Two-Face becomes this monster hell-bent on destroying the Joker.

Batman gets more caught up with it after trying to wrestle with Dent's monster and trying to continue capturing the Joker, while at the same time trying to prevent anymore collateral damage.

Zooks

01-07-2008, 03:17 PM

TDK has Harvey Dent and the Joker... I don't see the issue with the third movie having Two Face and the Joker, with the characters swapping importance with Maroni being replaced by another villain like Catwoman, Penguin, or Black Mask. The Joker should be a wildcard. Any alliance with any character should not be a stable one. Mask of the Phantasm did a good job of including the Joker but not neccessarily making him the true villain or giving him a lot of screentime.

ashminator

01-10-2008, 08:14 AM

^ indeed

but if the joker is in the third no matter how small people will just be counting the screen time till he appears, i dont want it long winded with the joker unless its done as discusedin arkam but to be honest why would they do it like that the studio would say its too silence of the lambs and manhunter

now weve all been teased weith the joker and two face isnt there room for anyone else? for part three?

DoctorJones

01-11-2008, 01:25 PM

Keep in mind the Justice over Revenge thing : Dent wouldn't go this way anymore. After being scarred I would guess he goes through a super depressed state and comes out on the other side in a Ra's Al Ghul state of mind where "Gotham is beyond saving" and revenge is the only way to take out the Joker. Collateral Damage ensues to the max, and Two-Face becomes this monster hell-bent on destroying the Joker.

Batman gets more caught up with it after trying to wrestle with Dent's monster and trying to continue capturing the Joker, while at the same time trying to prevent anymore collateral damage.

I think that's pretty much going to be TDK's third act. Depends really, but I'm unsure myself of how big Joker's role should be again. I myself was pleasantly surprised as to how important Davy Jones was in AWE, so there's always room I guess.

I definitely support the idea of having Joker playing Hannibal Lecter to Harleen Quinzel's Clarice.

He-Man

01-22-2008, 04:28 PM

Wow.
RIP Ledger :-(

Should the Joker be recast for the 3rd movie or just have him mysteriously disappear and move onto other characters?

frodawgg

01-22-2008, 04:55 PM

^^^i can't believe this is what is on our minds, but i think they should have an explained absence. and, since we don't know how TDK ends, maybe they might alter the ending so it isn't left unresolved.

RIP Heath Ledger

rizzo51

01-22-2008, 04:57 PM

Poor Heath

elgato

01-22-2008, 04:57 PM

Joker shouldn't disappear, give hima mad Harley and he's on the ride:cwink:

:hoboj:

Dangerous

01-22-2008, 05:00 PM

This is my first Ledger related post, SHH been down for the last 20 mins...

All that I have heard so far seems to point towards Joker having a supporting role in Batman 3.

Personally I reckon they keep this as it is and either, use computer graphics ala crow to have him in 3, or maybe they have already filmed these scenes? ... who knows.

RIP

FaT_tONle

01-22-2008, 06:15 PM

SHH gonna be screwed up for a while with the speed... this is what we got in May last year except now its going to be a lot worse... so I'll try to get my two cents in before my Hype shuts down again.... I think they could edit out all cliff hangers if there are any in TDK involving the Joker and just leave it open ended with nothing definitive... just focus on Two Face and the mob for the third part... with maybe Selina rounding out the cast... it doesn't feel right talking about this now but this is the Sequels forum... so that's that... hopefully it will be a smooth transition... the movies should still continue... didn't the Matrix have this issue with Alliah?

Spideyfan01

01-22-2008, 06:59 PM

I don't know. At first I wanted Joker to have a role in 3, but now, I'm not so sure. I'm sure Nolan will make the right choice.

EagleVision

01-22-2008, 07:06 PM

I don't wanna believe it right now...

It's a bloody shame, life is so short, and we can't take it for granted. It's gonna be odd to watch TDK this summer. Could've never saw it coming. Worst case scenario, if Joker is needed in more films with Nolan they'll go thru another re-cast and it'd be nice to have Crispin Glover.

But I don't wanna think about that now.

elgato

01-22-2008, 07:09 PM

Joker shouldn't disappear, give him a mad Harley and he's on the ride:cwink:

:hoboj:

I DIDN'T KNEW ABOUT HIS DEAD WHEN I POSTED THIS, SORRY

killingyouguy

01-22-2008, 07:14 PM

Well the Joker was supposed to scar Dent in the 3rd but we know that happens in TDK now so there is no reason for Joker to be in BB3. I'm pretty sure Nolan would be totally against recasting him anyway.

I originally would have liked to have seen the Joker survive TDK, keeping a future return open. NOW, I'd prefer not. I don't want to see the Joker again in the "Nolan-verse". And to bring him back it would have to be a very different set of Batman movies and very different looking (at least) Joker.

Dangerous

01-22-2008, 07:27 PM

I reckon they will have enough spare footage to insert some kinda cameo into Batman3 no matter how small.
So long as that happens Il be happy, but I do think Ledger-Joker should at least be visually referenced in the third film.

Ecstasy

01-22-2008, 07:36 PM

All I speculate is Nolan will definitely not recast the Joker.

TLH

01-22-2008, 07:45 PM

All I speculate is Nolan will definitely not recast the Joker.

If Nolan elects to make a third Batman film, I believe the Joker won't be involved (and not for the obvious reason of Heath's tragic demise). He may have left the window open at the end of TDK for the Joker's return, but I think it's safe to say that we'll see other characters in a hopeful third film.

FaT_tONle

01-22-2008, 08:05 PM

The third film should happen no matter what... Nolan should be back to finish what he started... man I hope they get it done quick before somthing else happens... not like Freeman and Caine are getting any younger... hopefully they get it done though...

jmc

01-22-2008, 08:50 PM

There will be no recast. I'm even more doubtful Nolan will do a third film now.

Superman Prime

01-22-2008, 08:59 PM

Nolan won't be recasting the Joker.

Noir

01-22-2008, 09:44 PM

Mad Hatter, Riddler, Hugo Strange, Quizmaster, Scarcrow, Please don't cast him..

But..if they do recast him, use Crispin Glover..

Dangerous

01-22-2008, 09:57 PM

Nolan won't be recasting the Joker.

Can you provide any proof?

Superman Prime

01-22-2008, 10:11 PM

Chris Nolan's respect for Ledger is proof enough.

fu manchu

01-22-2008, 10:12 PM

recast?

*cough*Rachel Dawes*cough*

Why Are You Crouching Spock?

01-22-2008, 10:18 PM

Move on to other characters

Robin91939

01-22-2008, 10:37 PM

He will not be recast. He may be referenced....leave the Joker out there but unseen if he survives and gets out in the "wild" in The Dark Knight. Just don't have him been seen.

-R

McVenom

01-22-2008, 11:01 PM

no more joker until they reboot the series in like 10-15 years

RIP Heath Ledger

Dangerous

01-22-2008, 11:03 PM

Chris Nolan's respect for Ledger is proof enough.

So that's a no.

marcmartin318

01-23-2008, 12:02 AM

Crispen Glover is a **** actor. Everybody who keeps saying he would be perfect just because he is a tall, and potentially creepy looking guy, are morons. Mostly everybody didn't like the idea of Heath being the joker in the first place DESPITE that he is a very talented character actor who has only gotten better in his years of acting.

For the Record... I don't think the Joker should be re-cast, but, news flash, even if Nolan does not do the next movie, it does not mean that Warner Bros. won't find another director who will, and that director may not have the same respect for Heath (and HIS Character) that Nolan did. Which could mean a new joker in the third film.

Rest in Peace to Heath Ledger. I believe we can safely say we look forward to seeing you larger than life once again this summer with the greatest role of your young life.

Mitthrawnuruodo

01-23-2008, 08:23 AM

This thread is not to mourn Ledger's passing. This is to discuss the future of the Batman franchise.

http://www.moviehole.net/news/20080123_about_heath_and_the_dark_knigh.html

The War Machine

01-23-2008, 08:26 AM

StevieNicks1988

01-23-2008, 08:26 AM

Well, if they simply recast him for a cameo and have him hidden in the shadows in a cell in Arkham, easily done. I think if they want to bring the character back, that's how to go around it. But really, it shouldnt be a problem. The way I always figured it would be is Ra's, Joker, Two-Face, so no real biggy.

strikezone89

01-23-2008, 08:27 AM

i think they will cast a look-alike and have him just do some small scenes

R3M3D1

01-23-2008, 08:27 AM

You should add the option. "Nolan won't do a third film"

That's what i think anyway. I dunno...

Tvar10

01-23-2008, 08:28 AM

i hope they dont alter the end of the dark knight because of his death....

Mitthrawnuruodo

01-23-2008, 08:28 AM

You should add the option.

"Nolan won't do a third film"

That's what i think anyway.

Good idea mate.:yay:

How do i add an option?

Golgo-13

01-23-2008, 08:29 AM

I'm quite sure, with editing, that the Joker can make a brief appearance in Batman 3, using some of the extra footage that might have ended up on the cutting room floor. All they have to do is tweek, not change, the Batman 3 storyline a bit.

regwec

01-23-2008, 08:29 AM

Right, personally I hope for a recast and a different approach. I think that The Joker is too crucial a strand in the fabric of the Batman universe to abandon or mothball, but I think it would be crass and disrespectful to simply regurgitate Heath's performance using another actor. The only way forward, I think, would be for another actor to play a Joker that shows a different aspect of the character's appearance and behaviour. Perhaps, where Heath was ragged, viscous and "punk", his successor could be the deadly dandy. Enough ambiguity should be created for the rest of the films' dramatis personae to question whether this Joker is the same man at all. It could be interesting.

Darknightnomis

01-23-2008, 08:30 AM

The 3rd movie will be about 2 face (and maybe Selina/Catwoman) and the Joker will not be part of it.

But I don't think Nolan will be part of a 3rd movie after this.

The War Machine

01-23-2008, 08:30 AM

There will be a third film.

The only thing preventing the 3rd was that Justice League film fiasco but luckily that project is dead now.

Even if Bale died, WB would have greenlighted the 3rd film given TDK's BO will be huge.

strikezone89

01-23-2008, 08:31 AM

rnewbz

01-23-2008, 08:31 AM

I'm thinking a cameo would work. If Nolan does do te the third one, I'm not sure he'll want to recast. He's not one of those directors who's just in it for the bucks, I mean he had a friendship with Ledger. I think probably out of respect for Ledger he won't be recasted.

StevieNicks1988

01-23-2008, 08:31 AM

Nolan will definately do a third film. Actors die every day and the Batman franchise is his new baby, so to speak. He's brought it back to life. Hollywood is full of death and it comes with the job. It's like when Bob Kane died. They didn't stop making Batman movies. It's a natural thing and a part of life. I think Nolan will do a third, it'll just be a little longer until it gets being made.

The War Machine

01-23-2008, 08:31 AM

The 3rd movie will be about 2 face (and maybe Selina/Catwoman) and the Joker will not be part of it.

But I don't think Nolan will be part of a 3rd movie after this.

According to the news covering Heath's death yesterday...

Heath Ledger had a 2 picture deal with Nolan/WB

The Joker was obviously meant to continue.

Symbiote666

01-23-2008, 08:32 AM

They will probably just recast him if they really want to use him in the third part. They recast Rachel, sure this is a little different because Katie Holmes didnt die, but I can't see Nolan, the cast, or even Heath (if he was alive) to want the trilogy to stop completely because of his death. (I know, Heath couldn't comment on his own death but you get the point).

It will be hard though, finding someone that is willing to repleace the Joker, yet not upstage Heath, because that would be really bad. Perhaps Andy Serkis (Gollum in LOTR), he is good with voices and has quite sharp featrues, he might be able to match what Heath is bringing to TDK.

Mitthrawnuruodo

01-23-2008, 08:32 AM

''As for those that are wondering whether The Joker, and therefore Ledger, was supposed to come back for the third ‘Batman’ film?– Yes, the character is in stencil for the third film. If I recall correctly, David Goyer (writer) wrote into the third film that The Joker somehow aids Batman in his search for that film's villain, Two-Face - whether that's from a jail cell, or the looney bin Fortunately for the filmmakers, it would only be a cameo by The Joker (either behind bars, or some kind of flashback) so they can work around that - I presume they'll either cut the character from the eventual script or simply re-cast (and have that person in the shadows). '' - Movie hole

Ireland's Joker

01-23-2008, 08:32 AM

Personally, I feel Nolan would either find someone who can accurately measure to Heath's portrayal and continue in his honor. OR, he will step down.

I couldn't see him writing the Joker out of the third. Regardless of part size. I personally just don't think he'd be able to erase Heath's take on the character after something like this.

Dark Donnie

01-23-2008, 08:33 AM

I think they should just go the route of recasting the role, have his role smaller in the third film though.

The War Machine

01-23-2008, 08:35 AM

DarkSuperman

01-23-2008, 08:35 AM

PEOPLE... nolan will make his third and heath's death will have no affect what's so ever..... there was an atricle saying that the jokers appearance in the third film was going to be small anyways.. all hollywood will do is hire someone completly different or hire a look-alike

Pretty much. I mean, I love Heath as the Joker, but the show must go on. You people really think the multimillion dollar Batman machine is going to derail because of the absence (however, tragic and untimely) of one actor? Not likely. The will most likely recast.

strikezone89

01-23-2008, 08:35 AM

the people who think nolan will step down is ridicouls

R3M3D1

01-23-2008, 08:35 AM

Good idea mate.:yay:

How do i add an option?
Not sure, a mod could change it.

Don't get me wrong, i'd love a nolan trilogy but i don't know if i could accept a new actor in the role seeing what Heath has done with the character. We only have the trailer and prologue to go one but still it would seem weird to me.

The War Machine

01-23-2008, 08:36 AM

Personally, I feel Nolan would either find someone who can accurately measure to Heath's portrayal and continue in his honor. OR, he will step down..

There are plenty of great actors who could take on this role and do it extremely well.

There were many great potential actors rumored for the Joker role.

Gianakin_

01-23-2008, 08:36 AM

According to a news article that was posted on the Heath Ledger Dead thread, there was a plan for a Joker cameo in BB3. I think, if they decided to stick with that, it could work fine.

Mitthrawnuruodo

01-23-2008, 08:36 AM

hey, where has this thread been moved to?

Mitthrawnuruodo

01-23-2008, 08:37 AM

According to a news article that was posted on the Heath Ledger Dead thread, there was a plan for a Joker cameo in BB3. I think, if they decided to stick with that, it could work fine.

WTF? I thought you wasn't going to talk about this for 24hrs?

hypocrite???:wow:

Ireland's Joker

01-23-2008, 08:38 AM

the people who think nolan will step down is ridicouls

And people who snap at other opinions are ridiculous.
Just for the record.

strikezone89

01-23-2008, 08:38 AM

Not sure, a mod could change it.

Don't get me wrong, i'd love a nolan trilogy but i don't know if i could accept a new actor in the role seeing what Heath has done with the character. We only have the trailer and prologue to go one but still it would seem weird to me.

we dont know what heath has done with his character all we've seen is TRAILERS and some may have seen 8 mins of the opening scene.

i think heath will do a good job but come on people we can't make assumptions about this role until the movie is released

strikezone89

01-23-2008, 08:39 AM

And people who snap at other opinions are ridiculous.
Just for the record.

wow... internet bully :whatever:

i pity you

Mitthrawnuruodo

01-23-2008, 08:41 AM

And people who snap at other opinions are ridiculous.
Just for the record.

yes. Agreed.

R3M3D1

01-23-2008, 08:44 AM

we dont know what heath has done with his character all we've seen is TRAILERS and some may have seen 8 mins of the opening scene.

i think heath will do a good job but come on people we can't make assumptions about this role until the movie is released
Yeah i know, that's true.

Just my feeling at the moment.

Ireland's Joker

01-23-2008, 08:44 AM

Three years is a long time away.
And to be honest, though I don't like it?

Don't be surprised if they were to make some sort of artificial audio based upon Heath himself, and dub his voice over some other actor who would remain shadowed.

Though, I'm sure there are plenty of fine actors who with time, could potentially make it work.

The War Machine

01-23-2008, 08:50 AM

November Rain

01-23-2008, 08:52 AM

PEOPLE... nolan will make his third and heath's death will have no affect what's so ever..... there was an atricle saying that the jokers appearance in the third film was going to be small anyways.. all hollywood will do is hire someone completly different or hire a look-alike
I hope this is what happens.

At the end of the day, he was just an avatar for the character, let's not stop the world in its tracks:o

nitemareseraph

01-23-2008, 08:56 AM

Brandon Lee's death was alot more tragic since it happened during the actual filming of his film, yet they still continued that franchaise for subsequent films with a different actor.

I'm sure WB/Nolan will do the same in 2.5 years from now. Recast the Joker, after the shock of what happened to Heath goes away.

To me, both deaths are equally tragic, but The Crow, as a character, is not meant to be just Eric Draven. There have been dozens of different people brought back from the dead to seek vengeance as the Crow, in both the comics and the films.

The Joker, on the other hand, is one guy. See the difference?

Spider-Fan83

01-23-2008, 08:56 AM

first of all, I'd like to say, that this discussion is way to soon
(in both, respect for what happened, and in general talking about it as a movie)

I mean, lets not go starting the casting wars all over, before this movie even comes out, we shouldn't even be thinking about this, until we start to hear some of the details of what’s going on with the sequel, and what direction it will take, character wise
or at least until after we see the movie to even know if he was set up to be in the squeals

Just saying

That'ssuper!

01-23-2008, 08:56 AM

Out of respect for Heath, let's just move on and cover a bigger angle of Two Face in the next film.

regwec

01-23-2008, 08:59 AM

The Joker, on the other hand, is one guy. See the difference?
Yeah, but he is one guy with a history of several personalities and appearances. I say again that the best thing to do would be to hire a new actor to play a completely different interpretation of the same character, and really develop the theme that The Joker reinvents himself every day.

Damobi

01-23-2008, 09:05 AM

I think the Joker should continue into the 3rd film as Nolan intended.

Heath wouldnt have wanted to see Nolan bury the character with him after everything he invested.

The show must go on and even Heath probably knew that the role is bigger than any one actor.

According to the news covering Heath's death yesterday...

Heath Ledger had a 2 picture deal with Nolan/WB

The Joker was obviously meant to continue.

Well said. I completely, whole-heartedly agree.
I believe Heath would have wanted the character to go on. :csad:

nitemareseraph

01-23-2008, 09:05 AM

They'll recast Joker.

Heath's death was sad but he didnt have such a claim on the character like Reeve did for Superman.

And even immediately after Reeve's death, his Superman role was recast with Brandon Routh.

I have to disagree. After watching the trailer, I think he owns the role. As far as Reeve/Routh.......it's not like Reeve died immediatley after filming a Superman flick, then they replaced him a couple of years later for a sequel. His last stint in the tights was waaaaayyyy back in 1987's Superman IV
. Before Routh was cast, there were others cast as Supes: John Newton and Gerard Christopher played him in the Superboy Series, Dean Cain in Lois and Clark, and Tom Welling in Smallville.

JStorm

01-23-2008, 09:08 AM

Quit with the "teh inappropriate statements - I luvs Heathy."

It is a valid question.

famkeicepick

01-23-2008, 09:14 AM

think about, these movies need main selling points. in begins, it was batman himself, the recreation of the batman universe according to nolan, if you will. in the dark knight, it is obvious that the selling point is the joker (i mean, he is in just about every other scene in the trailer, especially for a character who is NOT the backbone of the movie). and we know that we will see a lot of dent and even two-face himself in the dark knight. and we also know that two-face will be the main villain in the 3rd installment. So if they just bring back the joker character, there won't be any new selling points? i think they should find a brand new villain to put in there with two-face. I just think that trying to recreate what heath has done, would be a bit disrespectful. it would be different if he was still alive...but there is nothing we can about that:-(

The War Machine

01-23-2008, 09:18 AM

I have to disagree. After watching the trailer, I think he owns the role. As far as Reeve/Routh.......it's not like Reeve died immediatley after filming a Superman flick, then they replaced him a couple of years later for a sequel. His last stint in the tights was waaaaayyyy back in 1987's Superman IV
. Before Routh was cast, there were others cast as Supes: John Newton and Gerard Christopher played him in the Superboy Series, Dean Cain in Lois and Clark, and Tom Welling in Smallville.

The difference is Routh was playing Reeve's character, essentially continuing HIS Superman; and that was announced the week of Reeve's death.

They didnt let that version of the character die with Reeve.

Joker will continue without Ledger in Batman III.

Doctor Baywatch

01-23-2008, 09:44 AM

I think we and the makers of the Batman Begins franchise will calm down in time and a third movie won't be a problem.

TDK08

01-23-2008, 09:45 AM

I dont care what you say, NO ONE will be able to replicate Heath's joker, his was one of a kind. RIP

strugler

01-23-2008, 10:27 AM

It is really a tragedy that the batman franchise lost Heath Ledger especially after we all see from the trailer how well he pulled off the joker character.

While this is a tragedy i do not think this should affect the future of the character, Joker is bigger than any actor really, we cant just write the joker off because of Heaths unfortunate death.

A recast would probably not be so hard as amny of you are saying, rememebr the joker wears a LOT of make up, any actor who could pull heath's performance ( a wide range to choose from) and any character who just has a little resemblance to heaths face (i name paul bettany) could really play the joker and look like heath.

I really think they should recast for the 3rd installment instead of writing the character off.

People will probably think how cruel i am but this is life and people die all the time it is really a disgrace to heath himself to kill joker because of the actor's death and he probably wouldnt liked it himself.

so i say RECAST for the 3rd movie

strugler

01-23-2008, 10:28 AM

I dont care what you say, NO ONE will be able to replicate Heath's joker, his was one of a kind. RIP

lets not over react, we havent even seen the movie yet. Yes the depiction apears breathtaking from the trailer, but to say no actor can do it is a bit unreasonable. His death is a tragedy but let's not over react.

FaT_tONle

01-23-2008, 10:34 AM

Joseph Gordon Levitt for Joker if they recast.... check out some photos in the Spiderman sequel forum under the "Who Should Play Parker" thread

CorpusBlack

01-23-2008, 10:36 AM

Yeah, but he is one guy with a history of several personalities and appearances. I say again that the best thing to do would be to hire a new actor to play a completely different interpretation of the same character, and really develop the theme that The Joker reinvents himself every day.

I disagree. A new style of Joker in the same continuity would just confuse the masses. I'd rather they recast and keep him in the shadows or not use him at all in the 3rd.

CorpusBlack

01-23-2008, 10:36 AM

Joseph Gordon Levitt for Joker if they recast....

I like that actually.

DoctorJones

01-23-2008, 10:56 AM

I don't think Nolan will step down as director, but who knows he feels a major character can live beyond his actor in a few, short years, or whether he should write him out.

FaT_tONle

01-23-2008, 11:00 AM

If the Joker gets locked up at the end.... (and they should and probably will edit out any scenes that may have left open a possible escape)... leave it at that... Dent will have already been scarred I believe... I doubt Nolan left a bunch of loose ends with TDK... and if he did he should edit it out as if TDK can be a stand alone film which every movie sequel (not done back to back) essentially should be no matter what movie franchise it is... hopefully Heath's last scene is him laughing in his cell and that's that... no need to bring him back for the third... I am just hoping Joker gets captured and jailed at some point... they can do reshoots if need be explaining his fate then do that.

chamber-music

01-23-2008, 11:04 AM

Joseph Gordon Levitt for Joker if they recast.... check out some photos in the Spiderman sequel forum under the "Who Should Play Parker" thread

Its funny they look a little a like and are similar dedicated actors which you would never think from watching 10 things I hate about you
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060313/060313_JGLevitt_4p.widec.jpghttp://www.hfxnews.ca/photos/TheDailyNews/stories/heath.jpg

TheVileOne

01-23-2008, 11:37 AM

Well let's say the Dark Knight is still a big success. And the media doesn't say crap like, this is the movie that caused Heath Ledger to get sleep problems, will Bale and Nolan still want to do a third movie?

Super_Ludacris

01-23-2008, 11:44 AM

Its intresting you mentioned JGL Chamber cause isnt dude in the GI Joe as Cobra Commander or something weird like that? Its a bizarre choice like Heath was.

R3M3D1

01-23-2008, 11:48 AM

Its funny they look a little a like and are similar dedicated actors which you would never think from watching 10 things I hate about you
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060313/060313_JGLevitt_4p.widec.jpghttp://www.hfxnews.ca/photos/TheDailyNews/stories/heath.jpg
The kid from 3rd Rock from the Sun?

Damn they look like brothers:wow:

chamber-music

01-23-2008, 11:51 AM

The kid from 3rd Rock from the Sun?

Damn they look like brothers:wow:

He went to college and then started doing indie movies. His actully a good actor now.

The-Dark-Knight

01-23-2008, 12:05 PM

Heath's still warm and you guys are re-casting his role, wether it happens or not give it some time.

Guys show a little respect.

regwec

01-23-2008, 12:08 PM

Actually, this thread is intended for discussion of the impact of his death on the film. There are lots of other threads devoted to 'mourning'. This sort of thing effects some people more than others, and you can't really demand that people feel a certain way.

Dr.HugoStrange

01-23-2008, 12:10 PM

They shouldn't recast, but I hope they don't change the TDK, they should finish the film the way it was meant to be. If there's a cliffhanger, leave it in TDK and explain the absence in the 3rd film.

BatmanFreak23

01-23-2008, 12:11 PM

I wouldnt care if they killed Joker in The Dark Knight actually. There is no need for a recast. Knowing that Ledger "cant" come back to play Joker again...is a good enough reason not to continue with that character. I know that he's Batman's main nemesis...but what can you do?

But I know that if he's killed in TDK, there will be protestors saying that him dying in real life was harsh enough.

I'll just let Nolan surprise us...

The-Dark-Knight

01-23-2008, 12:11 PM

I'm not demanding, but the guy only just passed and you guys are re casting his role?

BatmanFreak23

01-23-2008, 12:11 PM

They shouldn't recast, but I hope they don't change the TDK, they should finish the film the way it was meant to be. If there's a cliffhanger, leave it in TDK and explain the absence in the 3rd film.True Dat

Super_Ludacris

01-23-2008, 12:12 PM

Well we're discussing the impact of his death and at some point the conversation is gonna lead to options and that may include possible replacements. C'mon now.

8Diagrams(WU)

01-23-2008, 12:31 PM

There is no doubt in everyones mind that this was nothing but a tragedy. Heath will be missed and he will be looked at as one of the Iconic jokers because of his perfomance and the situation. I was really looking fwd to seeing him doing more movies as the joker.

Things have to continue though, and there will be other people playing the Joker in the future wether its with Nolan or with another set of movies in the future. A re-casting of the character will happen at some point. If the joker is part of the story in Batman 3, then a recast is the obvious choice. Heath's death is highly unfortunate, but it should not change the conceptual ideas that were worked out for the character.

In 3 years Joseph Gordon Levin would be a very good choice for joker. The kid can act, and with some dedication could do something good. Not to mention he looks a lot like Heath. Good call.

R3M3D1

01-23-2008, 12:38 PM

A rough manip i've just done now.

http://www.imageshadow.com/images/23012008min/jokermanip2221497_1e.jpg (http://www.imageshadow.com/view.php?image=jokermanip2221497_1.jpg)

Noir

01-23-2008, 12:40 PM

as much as I hate the idea of recasting because from what I've seen Heath has it almost definitive, I'd like to throw my manip out here:

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p237/AetherTank/crispin-glover-suited.jpg

regwec

01-23-2008, 12:42 PM

Yeah, I just don't like the idea of copying Heath's performance, mainly because it seems to be so idiosyncratic, and so distinctive in its departures from the comics.

I would like a sort of "Doctor Who" solution, with a different actor playing the same character in a different way. It could be explained by further physical and mental trauma; The Joker, after all, reinvents himself every day. It would even be interesting to have other characters speculate whether this was the same man of a copycat criminal.

Edit: I love that jacket, Noir. It's exactly the way that I would have modernised The Joker's costume.

CorpusBlack

01-23-2008, 12:47 PM

Juggernaut33

01-23-2008, 12:47 PM

I don't know if you guys have thought about it but...maybe Nolan doesn't want to do a third Batfilm anymore. I mean he never had a clear intention to do it in the first place (he always says so in his interview). Now if you look at TDK, this move is a massacre! I mean SFX technician died during the shooting, now Heath Ledger (the only possible Joker in the Nolan's universe). Nolan is a human being, he must be affected by all this. Maybe he now has a bad association with Batman.

As far as I am concerned, TDK is gonna be a stand alone movie, just like BB was. Nothing unsolved at the end of the film. So if Nolan chooses not ton come back for a third one, I would respect his decision.

R3M3D1

01-23-2008, 12:49 PM

^^Isn't that Crispin Glover?

Hyden

01-23-2008, 12:49 PM

The difference is Routh was playing Reeve's character, essentially continuing HIS Superman; and that was announced the week of Reeve's death.

They didnt let that version of the character die with Reeve.

Joker will continue without Ledger in Batman III.

but he'd been paralyzed for 9 years, he wasn't up for any Superman roles

CorpusBlack

01-23-2008, 12:53 PM

^^Isn't that Crispin Glover?

si senor.

Soundwave88

01-23-2008, 12:57 PM

Move on to other characters have!..hopefully something happends in the movie where we think we Joker die but really doesn't and thne move on to Riddler or Two Face not both of them!

Nirvana

01-23-2008, 01:37 PM

I would have like to see the Joker live on..but I think considering how the movie might possibly end that they just end it here on out. Or possibly just move onto Two-Face as the lead with a "passing" reference to Joker.

Kaizer

01-23-2008, 01:58 PM

For the Record... I don't think the Joker should be re-cast, but, news flash, even if Nolan does not do the next movie, it does not mean that Warner Bros. won't find another director who will, and that director may not have the same respect for Heath (and HIS Character) that Nolan did. Which could mean a new joker in the third film.

This is what I'm thinking

FlawlessVictory

01-23-2008, 02:23 PM

Ok, so supposedly the Joker was just to have a sort of a cameo and aid Batman in capturing Two-Face. If, this is the case then please just cut this out. Its not worth recasting just for that. First off, why copy something that was done so brilliantly in Silence of the Lambs. Second, Batman needing help and turning to the Joker? Eh, I'll pass. I would have said this even if Ledger was still alive. If they insist on needing someone to fill that role, why not Nigma? Have him incarcerated already and be very cryptic when trying to "help" Batman but actually he could be setting up Batman for something else.

I say, if we get BB3, cut the Joker out, if the above was his purpose and move onto something or someone else. I have faith in Nolan that if he sticks around he will bring forth another great story, one that can bring a satisfying end to this trilogy which it deserves.

Keyser Soze

01-23-2008, 02:24 PM

Why think about Batman 3? "The Dark Knight" isn't out yet. I think we should be focusing all our attention on this film, and Heath Ledger's performance as The Joker. Whether or not the character survives, perhaps there's no need to bring him back for another film.

If part 3 would see him taking a backseat anyway, maybe it's best if The Joker is just remembered for "The Dark Knight" being HIS film. Here's an example I'm thinking of from another movie:

Anton Chigurh. What a great ending for him in "No Country For Old Men". Evil lives on. But that doesn't mean he needs to come back for a sequel. Look at Hannibal Lecter. Talk about the law of diminishing returns. I know we all love to see our favourite characters return for further adventures, but sometimes they have the biggest impact when they only appear in one film.

I'm not dead-set against re-casting. If The Joker is to be an integral part of the third film, I'd even say I'd be for it. But I pity the poor actor who has to fill Heath Ledger's shoes. And like I said, I don't really want to think about that right now.

smashmode

01-23-2008, 02:29 PM

You move on to other characters. You do not re-cast.

TLH

01-23-2008, 02:38 PM

the GRIN Reaper

01-23-2008, 02:40 PM

Crispin Glover? Are you serious? Yuck. too typical.

At this stage, I don't know what they should do ... or what I'd want them to do. Its ashame this is even having to be thought about, and TDK hasn't even ben released.

It was planned for this movie to be the "joker's wild", and then 3rd was to be the "trial of the joker" according to Goyer. And he was to scar Dent. I've avoided spoilers at all costs, but Dent getting scarred is in this movie. So who knows? Whose to say Ledger even would've been in the 3rd, he doesn't like the sequel thing either. In one interview he said he doesn't like parts of characters he's done before.

Maybe Nolan filmed addittional Joker scenes? He could use those. I mean I went to WW Chicago in August, and they were only half way done w/ filming. Either this movie is long as hell, or they got Ledger's scenes out the way for the next one cause maybe he didn't want to have to come back to production w/ the stress of this character on his shoulders for the next one.

I don't know if I want someone trying to replicate Ledger, and I certainly don't want a different interp in the same Nolan mythos. That'd be retarded. I don't want the character to be dead either. I say mention him in passing and his status to let us know, and if you have to have someone fill in for non dialogue scenes where he has to be represented physically.

Keyser Soze

01-23-2008, 02:42 PM

I wonder if Heath's tragic passing will have any impact on the final film? Might they edit/change a thing or two in light of his death, such as some potential speech about death the Joker might have (if you follow).

The insider quote from Movie Hole said something like, "The Joker constantly talks about themes of chaos and life and death. Every line he utters have taken on a whole new meaning in the wake of his death."

Damiean Dark

01-23-2008, 02:42 PM

They should recast the Joker (preferably with paul bettany) but i dont think they will. he is batmans most important villain and has a hand in TDK sequel characters like riddler and co are pretty lame in comparison to Joker and twoface imo.

Noir

01-23-2008, 02:46 PM

They SHOULDN'T recast. But they may.

Super_Ludacris

01-23-2008, 02:51 PM

raider34r

01-23-2008, 02:58 PM

if they could somehow use deleted footage from TDK in the third one or soemthing or put heath's face using computers on some one else or just work something out to have the joker in a cameo that woudl be great BUT NO RECASTING, AS LONG AS NOLAN DIRECTS ,I WANT NO RECASTING OF THE JOKER, BUT THIS SUCKS!!! With the death of Heath, Batman 3 wont be as good anymore, but hopefully they could work something out

RIP HEATH

jmc

01-23-2008, 03:06 PM

dolfan55aj

01-23-2008, 03:09 PM

Don't recast the Joker!

As for what happens to him story-wise, it really depends on what happens to the Joker... As far as having the Joker involved, it pretty much puts and end to having the Joker in any more films in the franchise obviously. But recasting, I feel, would be kind of insulting to the memory of Heath, in a way, because I'd feel like they think he could be replaced...which I do not believe. I just hope everything works out and Nolan/Bale and the rest of the key cast doesn't leave the franchise after this, Even if it does mean no more Joker, at least for the next few films.

dolfan55aj

01-23-2008, 03:14 PM

There's been no confirmation that there will even be a film three. Nolan himself has said he takes his films one at a time. If he's uncertain about doing a third film, Ledger's death may have helped Nolan make his mind up already. I'm doubtful he'll do it just to please fans and even if he did, he won't recast the character. I've said it before, the series doesn't need a to be a trilogy, I'm not quite sure why people need a third film.

I think the reason people need a third film is because people want a beggining, middle, and end. If you just have two it makes the films seem like they don't belong together or form a story. A trilogy makes it seem like one long movie.

batboy99

01-23-2008, 03:26 PM

move on to other characters like catwoman,penguin etc

Eddie Brock

01-23-2008, 03:35 PM

You're spending all of TDK setting up Harvey Dent - why overshadow Two-Face with the return of The Joker? Furthermore, I don't get why we need to see Joker in 2 out of 3 movies. Yes, he's the huge archnemesis - but let's not get like Magneto and the X-Men or Luthor and Superman. Batman has enough rogues to satisfy 3 movies without repeats.

Furthermore, Heath's performance - from what we've seen of it - is epic, and no one can fill those shoes (in my eyes). Anyone who tries would come up short.

jmc

01-23-2008, 03:50 PM

I think the reason people need a third film is because people want a beggining, middle, and end. If you just have two it makes the films seem like they don't belong together or form a story. A trilogy makes it seem like one long movie.

But each film is it's own story, this isn't like LOTR or Star Wars, a continuing saga spread over 3 film, Dark Knight is a new story. Besides trilogies are becoming cliched, if Nolan feels his story needs only 2 parts, then so be it.

Eddie Brock

01-23-2008, 03:52 PM

But each film is it's own story, this isn't like LOTR or Star Wars, a continuing saga spread over 3 film, Dark Knight is a new story. Besides trilogies are becoming cliched, if Nolan feels his story needs only 2 parts, then so be it.
But...he doesn't. :huh:

This movie is clearly geared towards building Harvey Dent up so that his fall in the 3rd seems much more dramatic. All signs seem to indicate that TDK - just like BB - will lend itself nicely to a sequel.

jmc

01-23-2008, 04:07 PM

But...he doesn't. :huh:

This movie is clearly geared towards building Harvey Dent up so that his fall in the 3rd seems much more dramatic. All signs seem to indicate that TDK - just like BB - will lend itself nicely to a sequel.

Proof....?

Nolan himself said he didn't plan on doing a BB sequel. He wrapped things up in Begins but left the door open slightly for a sequel. I imagine he'll do the same in film two, but that's no guarantee there will be a film three.

the GRIN Reaper

01-23-2008, 04:38 PM

Nolan's full of it though ... he's not gonna admit it, but he's in this for three films. The whole pitch to WB to re-invent this franchise was so we could get Batman back on screen in a fresh way, make it more serious and threatning, and the last but MOST important was to get the Joker back on the screen. That's where WB knows it was going to make its money. Really this was the film they set out to make. BEGINS was the stepping stone to get to it. Goyer and Nolan together pitched a 3 part story for a franchise to compete w/ the rich market that Spider-Man and X-Men grabbed ahold of previously. Nolan even though he sounds pessimistic at times and/or evasive, he will be there for a 3rd film. He acted as if he wasn't going to do this one for awhile as well, and that was bs. No matter what he tells you, the ending to BEGINS had a purpose. The whole movie really built to that. A re-vamped Batman who has reached the mythical status we know him by ... and to bait future audiences by handing him a Joker card. TDK is going to take in mad amounts of money. Now you got people who weren't even interested, even though it was the most researched and talked about summer blockbuster, wanting to go see it to see a young stars last performance, EVER.

jmc

01-23-2008, 04:43 PM

Again, proof/source/link?

az824

01-23-2008, 05:19 PM

I dont think he should be recast, it would be disrespectful imho and i dont think nolan would do it. writing him out would be the best choice imo

Ratcrawler

01-23-2008, 05:39 PM

Robin91939

01-23-2008, 05:47 PM

Please don't really tell me that we are making manips of Heath Ledger's replacement ONE DAY after his passing....

-R

Eddie Brock

01-23-2008, 06:13 PM

I'm sorry Heath Ledger died, really. (If it was if fact an accident anyway.) But they recast Rachel Dawes as the love interest nobody really cared about, I honestly don't see why they shouldn't do the same here.
That is a completely different situation.

A. Katie Holmes didn't pass away.
B. Katie's performance sucked.

CorpusBlack

01-23-2008, 06:14 PM

That is a completely different situation.

A. Katie Holmes didn't pass away.
B. Katie's performance sucked.

:up:

FaT_tONle

01-23-2008, 06:31 PM

The kid from 3rd Rock from the Sun?

Damn they look like brothers:wow:

I just made the point for the resemblence... they shouldn't do it though... its not like Rachel Dawes here... there is no script for BB3... Joker doesn't need a pivotal role... yes we don't know how TDK ends... lets stop spilling the spoilers (just as heads up for some people) if we do know because I have been avoiding TDK forums until the tragic news came... but its only a problem if Joker escapes and is still at large... you can reference the Joker if you want in BB3 if that's the case... but no cameo with someone else please... its not worth it... if the guy is locked up at the end of TDK let it be... knowing Heath and how he said "he gets bored with doing the same roles..." he probably would have had a cameo at best in BB3... maybe coming only at the end... that shouldn't happen now... I dare say a CGIed Joker with a dubbed voice or unused footage of Ledger in TDK??? Too risky even for that... let it go... it all depends on how far they go to wrap up the Joker arc in TDK... we'll have to wait and see...

Mr. Credible

01-23-2008, 07:35 PM

even if they choose to recast, what actor would be ballsy enough to take the roll, even if it is a year or 2 after heath's death? if they want a sequel by 2010, they'll have to start casting before the year is out, probably.

sdc10

01-23-2008, 07:57 PM

From what i have read the joker's part in the 3rd movie was to be a cameo appearance. Batman would visit him in order get advice as to how to catch two-face. Now, they just might write him outta the story or they may just keep the new actor in the shadows. However remember this is just a rumor.

Leon the Professional

01-23-2008, 08:28 PM

I feel like Ledger is going to make it hard to imagine someone else playing the Joker, but if Nolan has set his story up so that Joker is supposed to play a pivotal, even if minor, role in TDK, then they should recast.

It sucks that the new actor will have to basically mimic Ledger, especially after he and Nolan kept stressing how they're not trying to copy Nicholson. But the 3rd movie's story should not be compromised by Ledger's death.

I think it's a pretty safe bet that Nolan has not made the mistake of killing off Joker like Burton did, and that it ends with him in Arkham, in which case his absence in TDK's sequel would be a terrible and glaring missed opportunity.

But after WB's Justice League Batman idiocy and now Ledger's death, I wouldn't be surprised if Nolan and Bale simply stop their series with TDK.

What's worst about this is that I would have loved to see Nolan's take on Harley Quinn alongside Ledger's Joker in the 3rd movie :csad:

Leon the Professional

01-23-2008, 08:34 PM

Not having Joker in the 3rd movie would probably be like not having Magneto in X2. Although he wasn't the main villain anymore, it made complete sense for him to reappear and he played a pivotal role with some of the best scenes in the movie. I figure it would be similar with Joker in TDK's sequel.

Leon the Professional

01-23-2008, 08:38 PM

I'm not sure how I feel about this, but I'm just throwing it out there:

Maybe Jake Gyllenhaal could take over for Ledger?

I'm pretty sure they're good friends after Brokeback Mountain, and Ledger acted opposite his sister in TDK. It would be like a friend finishing a friend's work. Not to mention Jake was Nolan's 2nd choice for Batman, so Nolan clearly thinks highly of him as an actor.

Noir

01-23-2008, 08:47 PM

Jake wouldn't do good as the Joker :csad:
But, it'd be nice.

Leon the Professional

01-23-2008, 08:55 PM

Jake wouldn't do good as the Joker :csad:
But, it'd be nice.

I (and many people) had a hard time believing Nolan that Ledger would do good as the Joker, yet he blew me away in the trailer.

Arkady Rossovich

01-23-2008, 08:57 PM

Move on. Even if Heath was alive,the Batman films always focus on the Joker. There are plenty of other villains to choose from,Heath looked like a fantastic actor. But this decision is not about him,it's about the films..although it can be a hard decision.

8Diagrams(WU)

01-23-2008, 09:22 PM

Re-cast. The story has to continue to be told the way they wanted to all along. Fans will have at least 2-3 years to mourn the guy. Nolan is not afraid of changing things or recasting characters.

Joe Von Zombie

01-23-2008, 09:29 PM

I think they should just CG Heath into it if they have to have The Joker. They did it with Brandon Lee and they can do it here.

Nightwing1977

01-23-2008, 09:32 PM

That is a completely different situation.

A. Katie Holmes didn't pass away.
B. Katie's performance sucked.

Damn right. Heath would likely come back for part 3 if he was still alive & they were going to film. Comparing Rachel recasting with thinking Joker will be recast is weak. :down:

Ratcrawler

01-23-2008, 10:04 PM

A. She's dead to me.
B. Maggie Gyllenhall is not exactly an upgrade.

Axtech

01-23-2008, 10:24 PM

A. She's dead to me.
B. Maggie Gyllenhall is not exactly an upgrade.

Maggie's a fantastic actress. Katie is ... not.

how is this not an upgrade? :oldrazz:

Killing Joke926

01-23-2008, 10:59 PM

Heath IS the Joker; it's way too early to discuss replacement. As for now though, I'd start talking about Two-Face for the third movie.

ktulu654

01-23-2008, 11:02 PM

It'll be a while before we see someone else play the joker but it will happen. & don't take this as if i don't care he's dead because it sucks but some of us have to talk about somthin else to keep our minds off it & Batman & Joker are my fav. thing so. I'de like to see James Franco play the joker in like 10 years when he looks older, please don't take that as me bein an ass, because its not my intention.

SuperBatman

01-24-2008, 01:05 AM

I'm sorry Heath Ledger died, really. (If it was if fact an accident anyway.) But they recast Rachel Dawes as the love interest nobody really cared about, I honestly don't see why they shouldn't do the same here.

Um here's the Thing Rachel Dawes is not really a big name Character. The Joker is end of story. He's Batman Arch Enemy and you're comparing him to Rachel Dawes?

bestever23

01-24-2008, 01:07 AM

Why? I love Heath but Dam It WE NEED JOKER!!!!

recasting is no sign of disrespect

Please vote for recast

SuperBatman

01-24-2008, 01:10 AM

Why the Dark Knight is our ultimate Joker movie. Besides this was suppose to be a Trilogy anyway and if he was in the 3rd movie he would have a very small role.

Judson Caspian

01-24-2008, 03:11 AM

Well, this is not like replacing Katie Holmes. The Joker is a much, much larger role. I'm sure they can work something out, though. We just have to wait and see. In the end I hope they can bring back The Joker for a third film.

Super_Ludacris

01-24-2008, 05:10 AM

y'all gotta chill out with the Katie hate :( lol

PlacidTubs

01-24-2008, 07:15 AM

I think they could do a bit of CG and a voice double for a small cameo. The technology is there do do this pretty damn convincingly (anyone in the UK see the bob monkhouse adverts - and that was done on a charity's budget).

Especially if it were in the shadows, maybe in a cell of Arkham being interviewed for information about Twoface or something. I think a small bit of the Joker would be much better than nothing, as it's really help keep the films tied to their own reality.

Seeing as the film probably wouldn't be out until 2011 anyway, I think that will be a long enough time passing for something like this being acceptable with regards to taste. After all, they did a similar thing for Marlon Brando in Superman Returns.

bestever23

01-24-2008, 07:18 AM

It hurts me so much
Heath was a wonderful Actor and I know he did a great job as the Joker

but Nolan's Trilogy needs to be Told
We Need the Joker

I'm Hurt already that The Dark Knight makes me sad now not happy
sad because It's Ledger's last movie and Sad how we all will be looking at this movie differently now. From a Summer Superhero Blockbuster To a Dark Tragic Movie.
Please Re Cast,Nolan
It's not Dis Respect it's continuing the Joker

I'll say this to everyone

If Bale died would they re cast Batman? think about it

Heath will always be the first but we need another Actor to portray the Joker
and It's not Heaths Joker, It's Nolans vision of the Joker. Have another play him please, so we can see the Joker and be happy again

Keymaker

01-24-2008, 07:55 AM

That is a completely different situation.

A. Katie Holmes didn't pass away.
B. Katie's performance sucked.
C. Nobody gives a **** about her character anyways.

Ring Deacon

01-24-2008, 08:00 AM

Nolan will recast The Joker for part 3. It is the right thing to do. They already have the next script pretty much outlined already, and The Joker is in it. It will be hard for fans to think about that right now. But by the time 3 is out it will be 2010 or 2011, and plenty of time will have passed. Heath would want the production to move ahead, he was a professional and knew that it is just business. And who ever they pick to take on the role next will not be playing Heath's Joker, they will be doing Nolan's Joker. Just like Jack was playing Burton's Joker not his own.

Now i am sure when recasting does happen the new actor will be hounded to no end about taking the role untill the fans see him in action. I for one trust Nolan to yet again cast the right man for the job.

Now yes it would be easy to just move on to another character, but not if Joker plays a major part in 3. We all know that more then likely we will see either Catwoman and or the Riddler along with Two-Face in 3. But The Joker will be there, even if it is in the shadows.

PlacidTubs

01-24-2008, 08:06 AM

We all know that more then likely we will see either Catwoman and or the Riddler along with Two-Face in 3. But The Joker will be there, even if it is in the shadows.

OT but I don't think it's 'more than likely' we'll see the Catwoman and/or the Riddler. I personally think that Riddler is possible, but Catwoman is pretty unlikely. No one knows what's going to happen in the third film.

And back on topic, I still vote for CG cameo as I described above.

FaT_tONle

01-24-2008, 08:17 AM

FlawlessVictory

01-24-2008, 09:09 AM

Nolan will recast The Joker for part 3. It is the right thing to do. They already have the next script pretty much outlined already, and The Joker is in it.

What the hell are you talking about?! :huh: Have you seen this supposed outlined script?! When did anyone involved in the TDK production state that the Joker was to be used in a third film? What is your source? Moviehole?! Because that doesn't cut it. And when did Nolan say he would recast?! He said no such thing so why are you saying it as if it is a fact.

Fact of the matter is, no one, outside of the TDK crew, knows if the Joker was to be in the third film, and if so, in what capacity. So, don't say things as if they are fact unless you can back it up with a reliable source.

And yes, Goyer did sometime back talk about an outline for three films. And in this outline he stated Joker would be scarring Dent. If you have been following TDK, you know this is no longer the case. So obviously there have been major changes to that outline. Once again, no one outside of Nolan and crew, know definitively what is planned or outlined now for Batman 3.

Mr. Socko

01-24-2008, 09:27 AM

FlawlessVictory

01-24-2008, 09:30 AM

That or they won't bring the Joker back at all, we don't know what Nolan has planned. He may not have Joker planned for Batman 3 at all, some of you are just shoving speculation down throats as fact.

Thank you. We have no idea what Nolan's plan was regarding the Joker. He may not have even been in the third film to begin with. It's ok to speculate but to say it as if it was a fact is BS.

Mr. Socko

01-24-2008, 09:54 AM

In the end I just decided to vote move on...

Joker should be amazing in TDK, we can remember this as Heath's final role and enjoy it. After TDK we have other characters to pursue.

FlawlessVictory

01-24-2008, 10:04 AM

Someone brought up a great point, something to do with law of diminishing returns. When some people saw Hannibal Lecter in SOTL, they were wowed and wanted more. But then when they got more it was kinda like, eh, there was something lost. I loved Doc Ock in Spider-Man 2 but I don't want to see more of him. I don't want the Joker stretched thin. I'm sure he will be great in TDK and lets just keep him there. There are so many other characters to explore.

Dark Sentinel

01-24-2008, 10:12 AM

In the end I just decided to vote move on...

Joker should be amazing in TDK, we can remember this as Heath's final role and enjoy it. After TDK we have other characters to pursue.

i second that notion

az824

01-24-2008, 10:46 AM

If they must recast- go the Dumbledore way, get a new actor to do his own thing, I'm willing to look past continuity.

That or they won't bring the Joker back at all, we don't know what Nolan has planned. He may not have Joker planned for Batman 3 at all, some of you are just shoving speculation down throats as fact.

But I have no interest in seeing someone put on a cheap knock-off imitation of Heath Ledger's Joker. If you must recast, they should get an actor to play the Joker...instead of an actor playing Heath Ledger playing the Joker. That performance is his and his alone.
dumbledore is a much much different story. his character was already written in the books to be a vital part of the series whereas joker does NOT need to be. goyer has already said his role would have been minor and it could be worked around. besides, theres so many more villains like two face and catwoman to take the lead

Green Goblin 1964

01-24-2008, 10:48 AM

Joker for part 3...

FlawlessVictory

01-24-2008, 11:18 AM

dumbledore is a much much different story. his character was already written in the books to be a vital part of the series whereas joker does NOT need to be. goyer has already said his role would have been minor and it could be worked around. besides, theres so many more villains like two face and catwoman to take the lead

Do you have his quote or a link?

Edit: Nevermind

"The next one would have Batman enlisting the aid of Gordon and Dent in bringing down The Joker...but not killing him, which is a mistake they made in the first one," Batwriter David Goyer tells the latest issue of U.S. movie magazine PREMIERE. "In the third, the Joker would go on trial, scarring Dent in the process."

Since this was their original idea, it's obvious with what is now going in TDK, that the Joker is not needed for part 3.

bulletbillx

01-24-2008, 11:56 AM

If they must recast- go the Dumbledore way, get a new actor to do his own thing, I'm willing to look past continuity.

That or they won't bring the Joker back at all, we don't know what Nolan has planned. He may not have Joker planned for Batman 3 at all, some of you are just shoving speculation down throats as fact.

But I have no interest in seeing someone put on a cheap knock-off imitation of Heath Ledger's Joker. If you must recast, they should get an actor to play the Joker...instead of an actor playing Heath Ledger playing the Joker. That performance is his and his alone.

I agree with this. And The joker if recast, if he is actually in 3 as speculated (I swear some people think every rumor is a fact) could be incredibly different aside from appearance if they simply used the Arkham Asylum explanation that he has no real personality and reinvents himself over time (though this would only work if it was set some time after TDK so the Arkham staff could observe this).

Crook

01-24-2008, 12:21 PM

If Joker was planned for the third, I think he could be written out, given that TDK's ending doesn't leaving plots elements open-ended to be resolved in the sequel.

I'm absolutely against recasting this role. Not only because I don't think there should be yet another Joker in the same series, but there are other rich characters to explore as well.

Let TDK be Joker and Heath's shining moment, but move on from there. It's just not worth it to revisit.

regwec

01-24-2008, 12:47 PM

I'm not sure it's really about retreading old ground; The Joker seems to make a big impact in TDK, and assuming his heart's still beating at the end of the film, audiences are likely to expect his return. Added to that- and this is a less pleasant fact- Ledger's death is likely to give the role and the character even more kudos and marketability. People might begin to see The Joker as integral to the series- even if his appearances are small.

Crook

01-24-2008, 12:56 PM

Joker's only integral to this series if the plot elements call for it. If everything associated with him is tied up by the end of TDK, it would not be a problem to move on.

regwec

01-24-2008, 12:58 PM

Yep, but I imagine that the, post Heath Ledger, the role might become so iconic that it's impossible to dispense with.

FlawlessVictory

01-24-2008, 01:01 PM

Yep, but I imagine that the, post Heath Ledger, the role might become so iconic that it's impossible to dispense with.

Then if thats the case it would be near impossible to duplicate that iconic performance. Best to just leave it alone and move onto other characters in the Bat-world.

regwec

01-24-2008, 01:05 PM

Maybe, or as I said some time ago, a possible solution would be to have a different actor play the same part in a different way in a "Doctor Who" style, with the caveat that The Joker "reinvents himself every day"- Grant Morrison.

Crook

01-24-2008, 01:10 PM

Yep, but I imagine that the, post Heath Ledger, the role might become so iconic that it's impossible to dispense with.
Worked just fine with Nicholson and Javier Bardem's character of Anton Chigurh.

jmc

01-24-2008, 01:45 PM

If film three gets made and Joker was meant to have a small role, an easy solution would be to pass the Joker part onto another Batman villain.

regwec

01-24-2008, 01:49 PM

Yeah, Zsasz, The Scarecrow or Falcone could probably fill the niche of pre-established villain; if that's what WB decides to do.

DorkyFresh

01-24-2008, 02:02 PM

my respects towards Heath. his Joker looks to be incredibly menacing and scary, but i'm not opposed to a recast. Heath Ledger isn't the only actor that can play Joker. bad news is that Heath is oscar nominated and they'll have to find someone of his calibur and commitment to tackle the role. good news is i'm sure there are plenty of talented men out there that would love to complete what Heath started.

i nominate Heath's Brokeback buddy. Jake Gyllenhaal and Heath have the same sort of intensity about them and i think Jake's facial features fit the Joker better. i think Jake could be a very worthy successor to Heath. he was even Nolan's number 2 pick for Batman so i wouldn't put it past Nolan to want to work with Jake.

regwec

01-24-2008, 02:05 PM

That's not a bad idea, actually.

FlawlessVictory

01-24-2008, 02:05 PM

Yeah, Zsasz, The Scarecrow or Falcone could probably fill the niche of pre-established villain; if that's what WB decides to do.

Why recycle old villains, why not new ones? Riddler or Black Mask?

chamber-music

01-24-2008, 02:08 PM

Yeah, Zsasz, The Scarecrow or Falcone could probably fill the niche of pre-established villain; if that's what WB decides to do.

I heard Rutger Hauers Richard Earle is supposed to return as a villlian in the outline script of the trilogy Goyer orginally came up with.

I think Earle could be made into Black Mask if they wanted to seeming as he characters a fan favourite among newer Bat fans although I'm sure the diehards would cause a fuss about a different named character and orgin becoming the black mask.

FlawlessVictory

01-24-2008, 02:08 PM

regwec

01-24-2008, 02:12 PM

Why recycle old villains, why not new ones? Riddler or Black Mask?
Because that's probably the point of The Joker's role as currently scripted in the third film.

FlawlessVictory

01-24-2008, 02:23 PM

Because that's probably the point of The Joker's role as currently scripted in the third film.

Currently scripted? Where are you getting this info? The most we have is Goyer years ago stating an outline for 3 films where the Joker returns in the 3rd film on trial and scars Dent. Obviously that has changed significantly and not because of Ledger's death. We are already getting Two-Face in TDK. So where are you getting this info about Joker in the 3rd film and how he is scripted?

TheVileOne

01-24-2008, 02:37 PM

I apologize if this upsets anyone.

For one thing, the media is trying to spin this like playing the Joker drove Heath Ledger to exhaustion and sleeping pills. That very well could hurt the movie. I mean I dunno, and it sounds insensitive, but its the media really.

Look at this:

Jack Nicholson has hinted he warned tragic Heath Ledger against taking on the role of The Joker in the new Batman film. Ledger, 28 - who was declared dead at 3:30pm at his Manhattan apartment on Tuesday - publicly declared himself exhausted and sleep deprived in November following the grueling shoot for The Dark Knight. He also revealed in an interview with the New York Times he'd resorted to taking sleeping pills - an overdose of which is believed to be the cause of his death - in a desperate bid to catch up on rest. And Nicholson, who famously portrayed the menacing Joker in Tim Burton's 1989 movie Batman, implied to the waiting crowd outside plush London restaurant The Wolesley on Tuesday night he spoke to Ledger about his role in The Dark Knight - and warned him about the pitfalls of taking on such a demanding challenge. When asked by the London crowds for his reaction to Ledger's untimely demise, a defeated Nicholson simply replied, "I told him so." Batman Begins prequel The Dark Knight is due to be released in July.

The media is already trying to imply and spin this that Ledger was allegedly on hard drugs, playing the Joker made him go nuts, etc.

regwec

01-24-2008, 03:16 PM

The media likes to interpret facts through the prism of the most engaging narrative.

Callous though it may be, that article would have WB execs rubbing their greasey hands with glee.

Super_Ludacris

01-24-2008, 03:20 PM

That Jack Nicholson stuff is old news. I put it down to him being drunk (as usual) cause he was like "Who?", "What happened?" and then "I warned him?" WTF? LOL.....man have another shot of Congac on me Frank Costello.

Raiden

01-24-2008, 03:30 PM

recast?

*cough*Rachel Dawes*cough*

I don't think you can compare Rachel (who is a character created by Nolan) to Joker. These two characters couldn't be more different.

CorpusBlack

01-24-2008, 04:06 PM

I don't think you can compare Rachel (who is a character created by Nolan) to Joker. These two characters couldn't be more different.

QFMFT.

FaT_tONle

01-24-2008, 04:06 PM

Here's the deal... if TDK ends like:

1) ... Joker actually escaping police and Batman and obviously being presumed as alive and at-large... then that's that... as long as the character doesn't kidnap Alfred or Lucious or Rachel Dawes and the movie ends on some kind of cliff hanger directly involving the Joker (which it won't)... say something like Barbossa (which they won't do)... then there is no need to bring back the character... if he is simply at large... all you need to do is reference him in part three... MAYBE a CGI cameo... but no recast if its a cameo... Joker shouldn't even have a Cyclops in X-3 role for BB3...

2) ...If the Joker ends up in Arkhum... you can leave it at that... maybe a cameo voice over in his cell or CGI... nothing more...

3) ...If the Joker is presumed dead... but it is still uncertain... leave it at that... even if they filmed a scene where the Joker is shown alive still laughing... leave it in there... that's perfect... don't cut that out... but the character should still have NO ROLE in BB3... let him remain presumed dead to the rest of the characters in TDK and explored in sequels at a later time...

4) ... The Joker is arrested in the TDK but his resolution remains unresolved... for example, even if Dent is scarred but Joker remains unsentenced... and if the sentencing was called to be in BB3 instead of TDK... then you have to recast... if BB3 is to be a direct sequel immediately following events of TDK and the Joker character/story remains unresolved... recast the role... ofcourse if they can edit TDK in such a way that provides a resolution for the character... we are set and no recast is needed... JGL for Joker if this is the scenario... keep it close to Heath but add what you can individually to the character for whomever steps into those shoes...

5) Joker dies... perfect... not really... but in the movie sense... if they don't have #4 above as a potential problem and if they can find away to edit in a Joker death scene in there... then Joker's death might as well wrap it up for good... but this is least likely to happen.

raider34r

01-24-2008, 04:21 PM

i just hope the joker could have some type of cameo in BB3, CGI or just his voice or idk, something, i was never expecting the joker to have a big role in BB3 anyway, but a cameo ,yes, if they could pull something off like a CGI joker or voice or anything, that would be good enough for me and i would be happy, becuz i want see other villlians as well.

Eddie Brock

01-24-2008, 04:25 PM

I don't think you can compare Rachel (who is a character created by Nolan) to Joker. These two characters couldn't be more different.
Not to mention that the situations are entirely different as well.

It was Holmes' choice to not return. Heath doesn't have a choice. :csad:

TheVileOne

01-24-2008, 05:34 PM

The media likes to interpret facts through the prism of the most engaging narrative.

Callous though it may be, that article would have WB execs rubbing their greasey hands with glee.

I can kind of see that, but knowing Hollywood people they are just as worried about the public being turned off of the movie because of this.

Starscream92

01-24-2008, 07:09 PM

:hoboj: I think since i assume they made digital scans of Heath(god rest his soul) And if he is suppose to have this small cameo in the shadows of his cell, they could do this digitally with all the technology now, and it will be even better by the time the 3rd one comes out.

revolucion

01-24-2008, 08:38 PM

If recast I choose Adrian Brody. Fantastic actor with a best actor award to boot. If no recast then go with Two-face, Riddler or bring back Ra's Al Ghul.

ERVysther

01-24-2008, 08:47 PM

Forgive me if this is rumor I am repeating, but wasn't Heath signed up for two movies in this series?

Also, wasn't it mentioned somewhere that the thrust of the next film would be a team up of the Joker and Two Face?

FaT_tONle

01-24-2008, 08:55 PM

Almost every actor that takes on these iconic comic book characters have a some clause in their contract that can extend them for future films but it doesn't mean they HAVE to appear in a sequel... its up to the studio to decide that... and the rest of that is just rumor...

Ring Deacon

01-24-2008, 10:45 PM

What the hell are you talking about?! :huh: Have you seen this supposed outlined script?! When did anyone involved in the TDK production state that the Joker was to be used in a third film? What is your source? Moviehole?! Because that doesn't cut it. And when did Nolan say he would recast?! He said no such thing so why are you saying it as if it is a fact.

Fact of the matter is, no one, outside of the TDK crew, knows if the Joker was to be in the third film, and if so, in what capacity. So, don't say things as if they are fact unless you can back it up with a reliable source.

And yes, Goyer did sometime back talk about an outline for three films. And in this outline he stated Joker would be scarring Dent. If you have been following TDK, you know this is no longer the case. So obviously there have been major changes to that outline. Once again, no one outside of Nolan and crew, know definitively what is planned or outlined now for Batman 3.

I never said anything about my comements being fact. I said that Nolan will recast the joker for part 3 if his part in it is important. Hell we all thought we wouldn't see Scarecrow again yet here he is in TDK. In a smaller role but he is still there. I don't see Joker dieing in TDK. I am telling you he will be used again in this universe. You just don't stop useing a character because the actor dies. It is not good business. And that is what acting is a busniness. What if Bale would have died? Would you say you can't have a part three with out him? No, the show must go on. It doesn't matter how good of a job an actor does on a movie he can be replaced at any given time. Hell in the original Crow movie Brandon Lee was killed on the set and they still finished the movie without him, not to mention still did sequels with out him and his character.

The Joker is too big of a character to just stop useing. By the time 3 roles around fans will be begging for more. And who is to say the next guy cast as the Clown Prince of Crime will not blow us away. Who is to say that it will not be dream casting.

Granted WB might just not use The Joker again till the next reboot. But that is doubtful. This movie even before Heath's death has a lot of buzz going around about it. The Joker is money in the bank. No other Batman villian will generate the money that a Bats VS Joker movie will do. Even if he is just the third villian in the next one. Even if he just has 2 or 3 sceenes it will have fans talking.

Nolan may be loyal to his cast, but if the guys that sign his pay check want Joker back he has little choice.

TheVileOne

01-24-2008, 10:56 PM

I'm also sorry if this is a ****ty thing to suggest. But would WB re-edit the movie out of sensitivity to the passing of Heath Ledger?

FlawlessVictory

01-24-2008, 11:28 PM

I never said anything about my comements being fact.

That's all I'm looking for. Fact of the matter is, no one knows definitively what Nolan's plans were for the Joker for part 3, if there were any to even begin with. If someone says, "If Joker was going to be in BB3" then I'm fine with that but when people start saying, "Joker will be in BB3" then I want to know what your source is that says this is the case. All we have is Goyer from years back stating his outline for three movies. In that outline, Joker returns in the 3rd film, on trial, and scars Dent. Already there is a significant departure from that outline because we are getting Two-Face in TDK and not in part 3. So, right now, all of us are clueless as to what the Joker's status is for part 3.

FlawlessVictory

01-24-2008, 11:30 PM

I'm also sorry if this is a ****ty thing to suggest. But would WB re-edit the movie out of sensitivity to the passing of Heath Ledger?

How would they go about doing that? His character is completely ruthless with not a shred of decency. If that's their line of thought then they would just need to cut him out of the movie entirely. It makes no sense.

MaJiN

01-25-2008, 12:37 AM

If Nolan does put the Joker in the third film, the actor will portray that character in his own way rather than trying emulate Heath's performance.
Honestly, this might sound really silly to some but I think one person that could play the Joker is James Franco.

DorkyFresh

01-25-2008, 04:44 AM

That's all I'm looking for. Fact of the matter is, no one knows definitively what Nolan's plans were for the Joker for part 3, if there were any to even begin with. If someone says, "If Joker was going to be in BB3" then I'm fine with that but when people start saying, "Joker will be in BB3" then I want to know what your source is that says this is the case. All we have is Goyer from years back stating his outline for three movies. In that outline, Joker returns in the 3rd film, on trial, and scars Dent. Already there is a significant departure from that outline because we are getting Two-Face in TDK and not in part 3. So, right now, all of us are clueless as to what the Joker's status is for part 3.

i can't speak for everyone, but i was posting under the ASSUMPTION that the Joker will be in part 3. i understand your point, because no one knows FOR SURE whether the Joker will live to play a role in the 3rd film...but if that's your point then it doesn't belong in this thread. this isn't a discussion on whether or not he'll be in the 3rd film, it's a discussion on what should be done if they were planning on keeping him for the 3rd film.

btw, i still think they should get Jake Gyllenhaal to fill the role....
http://www.midnight-diamonds.com/jakeheath/header.jpg

Darkness Falls

01-25-2008, 05:28 AM

i am still sadden by Heath Ledger's passing so i am finding it very hard to even post on shh

but if they must re-use joker in batman 3
they should go minor role
and do what they did in the first crow movie

Bruce Wayne Jr.

01-25-2008, 05:29 AM

If joker is recast, I'd rather it be Daniel Day Lewis or no one at all.

He definitely has the chops to carefully handle the specific choices Heath made portraying the character.

regwec

01-25-2008, 05:39 AM

DDL? Interesting...

DorkyFresh

01-25-2008, 05:47 AM

Bruce Wayne Jr.

01-25-2008, 06:20 AM

DDL could definitely play Joker, but i don't think i'd be able to get past the age gap between the two. DDL would be awesome to see as the Joker if he were originally playing him, but i can't see him following the foundation that Heath laid down. the situation would be that of an older, more experienced actor following in the footsteps of a younger actor who played a character already associated with a big name actor (Jack Nicholson). i seriously doubt DDL would even consider doing it...

Very true!
And I agree. He probably wouldn't consider it. On my part its just wishful thinking. Overall, it's rooted in my opinion that DDL's characters have all been done so well. I see his performances and no where is there a trace of the man. And I just buy it for some reason.

Similarly, Heath is virtually lost in the character and thanks to his performance, you experience nothing but the Joker. From what we can tell so far, its perfect; the mannerisms, gestures, variety and texture in the vocal delivery, everything. Judging from the trailer and prologue, without a doubt his performance is redefining.

In my opinion, DDL can riff off of the foundation Heath laid down. You can tell, its very specific. If the Joker is included in the third installment, I just want to experience the character. I truly believe DDL can dissappear into the role just as equally. So much so that you're not thinking that the Joker has been recast. On screen it's just the Joker.

Bruce Wayne Jr.

01-25-2008, 06:23 AM

Again, that's just if he's recast...Ideally I'd rather not have the Joker included in the third installment.

RIP Heath.:csad:

Nightwing1977

01-25-2008, 06:52 AM

And back on topic, I still vote for CG cameo as I described above.

I would like them to go that way than recasting him where we can tell it not Heath's Joker. Or maybe they can get someone else & we see him from the back with not seeing his face when he's talking to Batman or someone. With Goyer originally making Joker's role shorter for part 3, I think that would be a good idea. And get someone to say some lines & replace it with Heath's voice by computer. Can some computer use someone's voice & change it to someone else voice?

Super_Ludacris

01-25-2008, 07:07 AM

Probably be Johnny Depp...

Van Petrol

01-25-2008, 10:49 AM

Probably be Johnny Depp...

I was thinking that too, but idk...

regwec

01-25-2008, 11:12 AM

It's with a pang of wearied nostalgia that I anticipate a return to the frantic chanting and shrill invocations by which means my fellow Hypsters endeavour to cast their favoured actors into The Joker's mould.

Allow me to begin.

Huzzah for the Third Chris! Heckle them for Ecclestone! Christophy them!

Mr. Socko

01-25-2008, 11:17 AM

I've always wanted to see Depp as the Joker, but please, no.

It would seem like, or even be nothing but capitalization.

And I wouldn't want a name like Johnny Depp taking over Heath's job.

Super_Ludacris

01-25-2008, 11:19 AM

I only say Depp cause he was a choice for some before Heath was cast including me. But hey it is what it is and Heath probably wont be replaced.

Dark Donnie

01-25-2008, 11:38 AM

This would be a role, if recast alot of people I think would shy away from.

TheVileOne

01-25-2008, 11:54 AM

How would they go about doing that? His character is completely ruthless with not a shred of decency. If that's their line of thought then they would just need to cut him out of the movie entirely. It makes no sense.

I dunno man, but I'm just curious. Would they maybe cut out a line or two or downplay certain elements.

regwec

01-25-2008, 11:57 AM

I imagine if, for instance, Cpt Gordon shouts "why won't you just die" at The Joker, then the line is unlikely to make it into the final reel.

Nightwing1977

01-25-2008, 12:41 PM

I imagine if, for instance, Cpt Gordon shouts "why won't you just die" at The Joker, then the line is unlikely to make it into the final reel.

That what Freddy Krueger said to Jason in "Freddy vs. Jason". Yeah, I'm a horror freak too beside being a comic book fan. :D :D

FaT_tONle

01-25-2008, 12:53 PM

We are only going to have a better idea until we see exactly how the character's story ends in TDK... if they end it like they did with Rachel Dawes in BB... then no one will think it is necessary to bring Joker back... and I just doubt Nolan will leave it wide open...

GregComicFan

01-25-2008, 01:38 PM

We already do have "somewhat" of an idea of how TDK will end...

how? we can look at how BB ended... Nolan directed TDK and Nolan directed BB, so we can sort-of safely assume that Nolan will end TDK in the same fashion. So... BB ended in a way that if there never was a sequel, it would of been alright... even with the "Joker card" at the end with Batman and Gordon talking on the rooftop, that one hint of the Joker didnt exactly qualify BB for a sequel... So I have a hunch TDK will end in a similar way... The Joker escapes (Like the Scarecrow did at the end of BB), but that doesn't necessarily mean there NEEDS to be a Batman 3 or the Joker MUST show up.

Greg

TheVileOne

01-25-2008, 01:47 PM

They didn't even necessarily have to go with the Joker based off of the end of Begins either. The second movie could've gone in a different direction and taken place well after Joker and Batman had their first meeting even perhaps. But based off of the positive fan response off of the nod they decided to go with the Joker and set the movie much closer to the first one.

MrP3118

01-25-2008, 02:18 PM

http://a0.vox.com/6a00c22522c717f21900d414297728685e-320pihttp://images2.alloy.com/images/195x284/joseph_gordon_levitt_new.jpg
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20080123/2008_01_23t154140_300x450_us_ledger.jpg
My vote is for this guy if there is a cameo.

Dark Donnie

01-25-2008, 02:20 PM

Great actor

elgato

01-25-2008, 02:26 PM

Wow, thought is was a younger Heath Ledger!

Dark Donnie

01-25-2008, 02:29 PM

Wow, thought is was a younger Heath Ledger!

He's great in The Lookout, and Brick

BillLoomis

01-25-2008, 02:31 PM

Again, that's just if he's recast...Ideally I'd rather not have the Joker included in the third installment.

RIP Heath.:csad:

Agreed! I believe Heath's performance will leave such an impact on people that the majority won't want to see someone else try and fill his shoes. Bale is the perfect Bruce Wayne. If he dropped out i wouldn't want to see the series continue. We don't want a repeat of the past...do we? When it comes to characters like Rachael Dawes(Holmes)....she/these characters...are easily replacable because they aren't that imporant or strong to the film. But, the main stars like Bale/Ledger....these are guys we "Must" have in the film. Otherwise...we might as well start making forever and B and R all over again!

Mike_D202

01-25-2008, 02:35 PM

I didnt wanna post here because I thought it was too soon to even think about stuff like this.

But if they do recast, they should do what they did for Superman Returns. Find somebody who can study what Heath did in this film and do his best to recreate it.

Thomas Wayne

01-25-2008, 02:55 PM

As Nolan said Joker is an absolute. If he is integral to the plot then he should be recast.

nice-coat

01-25-2008, 03:40 PM

From an article dated 1/25/08

Ledger's death also calls into question the continuation of this Batman series. "The Ace of Knaves" was slated to be the franchise's third installment. In June 2005 writer David S. Goyer spoke to Premiere Magazine and said, "['The Dark Knight'] would have Batman enlisting the aid of Gordon and Harvey Dent in bringing down the Joker … but not killing him." He commented further saying, "In the third film, the Joker would go on trial, scarring Dent in the process."

Will the part then be recast, or will Goyer send the Joker away to Arkham Asylum for the Criminally Insane, never to be heard from again?

Wherever the Joker's future lies, the fact remains we have lost one of the great untapped actors of this generation. The news of his death is everywhere, covered ad nauseam. But his films will outlive this media frenzy, and by the looks of his work on "The Dark Knight," perhaps his greatest performance is yet to come. •