The Official Choose A Director Thread

[DChero]

Now I wouldn't go as far as to say Birthright is the perfect origin, but it has some elements that I'd love to see mixed with the Man o' Steel origin. Especially Soul-vision!!! j/k

I'm just going to make the argument that everyone knew Batman's origin, and that went pretty well recently. Superman is no different. An origin story doesn't have to take over a movie, but it's good to give more detail to the characters backgrounds.

[Daredevil_2003]

Now I wouldn't go as far as to say Birthright is the perfect origin, but it has some elements that I'd love to see mixed with the Man o' Steel origin. Especially Soul-vision!!! j/k

I'm just going to make the argument that everyone knew Batman's origin, and that went pretty well recently. Superman is no different. An origin story doesn't have to take over a movie, but it's good to give more detail to the characters backgrounds.But with Batman it's different. Only comics fans really know the ins and outs of his origin. Most folks just know his parents were killed, that made him angry, and so he dresses like a flying rodent and fights clowns and catwomen.

Not to mention Batman's life between 8 and coming back to Gotham at 25 has always been kinda vague. BB made a whole new story out of it. Whereas Superman's origin, everyone has seen it. And every one is basically the same. As good as birthright is, anyone who's seen Smallville and the Donner movie knows 75% of the story rght there. It's been done to death.

They certainly could do a lot worse, but I still say just go for a Incredible Hulk style reboot. Everyone knows who Superman is, what he's about, knows Lois Lane, Lex Luthor, Metropolis, etc...Just hit the ground running in the next movie. And make Braniac or Darkseid the villain so Supes will have things to do other than lifting heavy **** and flying around all lovey dovey with Lois....make it a big time action spectacle. The one thing we haven't gotten from a Superman movie yet, IMO. They've developed the characters till the cows came home and got sent off to the slaughter house. Now it's time for some payoff. Lets see some seriously kickass set pieces and super-powered fist fights! :super:

[Webhead2006]

yea i agree tih style reboot would probably be a good way to go about covering his origin again. We can have bits show in opening credits and through flashbacks during the film its self. Then we start off the film with him as supes already for a short time, and see lex and lois and move on to whats going on with them. Or start with his first day at the planet and when lex gets angery with supes and all that.

[Changeling]

Tim Burton. I just wanna see his vision of this SO BAD.

[Reebee52]

But with Batman it's different. Only comics fans really know the ins and outs of his origin. Most folks just know his parents were killed, that made him angry, and so he dresses like a flying rodent and fights clowns and catwomen.

Not to mention Batman's life between 8 and coming back to Gotham at 25 has always been kinda vague. BB made a whole new story out of it. Whereas Superman's origin, everyone has seen it. And every one is basically the same. As good as birthright is, anyone who's seen Smallville and the Donner movie knows 75% of the story rght there. It's been done to death.

They certainly could do a lot worse, but I still say just go for a Incredible Hulk style reboot. Everyone knows who Superman is, what he's about, knows Lois Lane, Lex Luthor, Metropolis, etc...Just hit the ground running in the next movie. And make Braniac or Darkseid the villain so Supes will have things to do other than lifting heavy **** and flying around all lovey dovey with Lois....make it a big time action spectacle. The one thing we haven't gotten from a Superman movie yet, IMO. They've developed the characters till the cows came home and got sent off to the slaughter house. Now it's time for some payoff. Lets see some seriously kickass set pieces and super-powered fist fights! :super:

The thing is, most people DON'T know Superman's origins. That's the biggest misconception I've heard around the internet. People don't know who "Kal El" and "Jor El" even are, even if they DID see Returns. I've been asked numerous times, "if Kryptonite is pieces from his home planet, why does it kill him?"
I usually respond by hitting these people in the face.
People know he's alien. They probably know his planet exploded. They may know about Smallville because they've heard about it.
Most people haven't seen the Donner Superman. Most people don't watch Smallville.
The same argument really could have been made for Batman. Your argument was that "the whole period from when Batman was 8 to when he was 25" had never been seen, which is true, but the same could be said for Superman. You have birth, smallville, Superman, typically. Donner's version conveniently 'skipped' this era as Clark was 'training' (a convention I hope is not repeated). But Birthright shows this era in one of the greatest Superman stories I've ever read. His experiences in Africa provide a great beginning to Superman.
Though, I'm not opposed to having a story that jumps right into it, where the characters are established. I'll say my pros and cons here, to using an origin story vs. jumping right in.
Pros:
-Shows Jor El and Lara, important pieces of Superman that people know squat about.
-Reestablishes Krypton, so it isn't a giant icicle.
-Gives the opportunity to introduce a Kryptonian villain(s) (Zod, Brainiac if you like TAS version) that can be used later (I'd prefer Brainiac)
-I want to see that Africa storyline on screen.

Cons:
-An origin story might cut back on action.
-It's hard to have an origin story without having Luthor as the main villain. Sure, he can be involved in a powerful villain (Metallo might be best), but people are still a little tired of Luthor's shennanigans.
-Darkseid/Brainiac might be too big to use in an origin story, and these two villains really need to be used at some point.
-While most people don't know, it will be somewhat rehashed to anyone who knows anything about Superman.

Honestly, I just WB to get their stuff together and deliver us the Superman movie we deserve. I enjoyed Returns, but it probably wasn't what we needed. (We needed an origin story then, to be honest). As long as it's a great Superman story, I won't mind whether it's origin or not. I agree he needs someone to fight, in a bad way. I've also heard people think that Lex is his only enemy. [sigh]....
Just give us a movie.

[Daredevil_2003]

Besides the fact I've yet to meet someone who hasn't seen S:TM, you can't deny it has been done to death. The comics, S:TM, the 50's show, STAS, Lois & Clark, Smallville...I don't know what simple/living under a rock folks you've met, but people know this stuff from one of these incarnations. Maybe not as well as we do, they might forget little things (and let's face it, the name of his parents is a small thing) but I've never met anybody who would ask "Why does kryptonite kill him?" (another small/pointless issue) They either know already or just accept that it does and move on.

While I'm not totally against another origin, in fact after thinking about it I'm actually kind of for a total, complete, throw all the old **** out the window reboot, I don't think it's neccessary from the angle of informing people. If you have a great story to tell and want to set a solid foundation for the franchise into the future, then by all means. But doing it just because you think people are stupid and have the memory of an alzheimer's patient? Please...move on.

Superman's origin has been seen/heard/read more times than I would even care to begin counting. They know. People got the memo.

Bring a truly good Superman film out and they will come, and I know I'll be happy. Origin or not.

[Webhead2006]

good points and like daredevil said yes there is people who may not know all the details about supes but even most common folks know the small details of he is an alien from a doomed planet and becomes the earth's greastest hero...... Hopefully the next film will get the get protrayed alot better then what SR did.

[Reebee52]

Besides the fact I've yet to meet someone who hasn't seen S:TM, you can't deny it has been done to death. The comics, S:TM, the 50's show, STAS, Lois & Clark, Smallville...I don't know what simple/living under a rock folks you've met, but people know this stuff from one of these incarnations. Maybe not as well as we do, they might forget little things (and let's face it, the name of his parents is a small thing) but I've never met anybody who would ask "Why does kryptonite kill him?" (another small/pointless issue) They either know already or just accept that it does and move on.

While I'm not totally against another origin, in fact after thinking about it I'm actually kind of for a total, complete, throw all the old **** out the window reboot, I don't think it's neccessary from the angle of informing people. If you have a great story to tell and want to set a solid foundation for the franchise into the future, then by all means. But doing it just because you think people are stupid and have the memory of an alzheimer's patient? Please...move on.

Superman's origin has been seen/heard/read more times than I would even care to begin counting. They know. People got the memo.

Bring a truly good Superman film out and they will come, and I know I'll be happy. Origin or not.

While I don't think the things you said were small and pointless are so (the fact that his homeworld kills him is tragically ironic, and people should understand that. And his parents are great characters with a tragic story of their own, and help Kal El become who he was supposed to be), I do agree with you. Most people know the basic story, but you would be surprised at how little is known. And the 'simple' folks I've met are people who don't watch Smallville, didn't watch the animated series, and who's only medium to Superman is movies, specifically Superman returns because they won't watch old classics. I suppose older fans will know the ins and outs, or at least the basics, but the younger audience is fairly ignorant.
However, I was never claiming that they should do an origin story to inform people, only that people weren't inform. I think they could do an origin story because it is a fantastic one, and could be used to make a great movie. I also think they could do a movie that jumps right into it and it could be great as well. I just want to see a good Superman movie, origin or not, my only point is that an origin story would not be a rehash for as many people as you would think.
Also I think it could be nice because, as you say, it throws all the old stuff out the window and gives us a fresh start, which is something the character might need.

[kalelkilla]

They can show us parts of the origin that were never seen on the big screen before, just as Nolan did in BB, I think Waid's Birthright does this well in the comics...as long as there is something that was never seen on film before, both fanboys and the general audience new to the franchise will be happy...what I would personally like to see most is the time between Clark leaving Smallville and showing up in Metropolis as Superman. I think that would be the most interesting, and also the movie makers have some room to be creative since this part of Clark Kent's/Superman's life is not "set in stone." Could be interesting.

[Webhead2006]

yea the next film if its a total reboot can handle the whole origin bits in a matter of different ways. So i am not to worried untill we know what the heck we are actually getting, who is directing/writting the project and then the cast.

[[A]]

If the rumor was Wachowki's adapting \S/uperman: Birthright
I voted It would make me even less interested in them taking over the franchise
I'd also set up a tent to give support to all Superman fans out there. The ones that hadn't commit suicide by then yet

[Daredevil_2003]

While I don't think the things you said were small and pointless are so (the fact that his homeworld kills him is tragically ironic, and people should understand that. And his parents are great characters with a tragic story of their own, and help Kal El become who he was supposed to be), I do agree with you. Most people know the basic story, but you would be surprised at how little is known. And the 'simple' folks I've met are people who don't watch Smallville, didn't watch the animated series, and who's only medium to Superman is movies, specifically Superman returns because they won't watch old classics. I suppose older fans will know the ins and outs, or at least the basics, but the younger audience is fairly ignorant.
However, I was never claiming that they should do an origin story to inform people, only that people weren't inform. I think they could do an origin story because it is a fantastic one, and could be used to make a great movie. I also think they could do a movie that jumps right into it and it could be great as well. I just want to see a good Superman movie, origin or not, my only point is that an origin story would not be a rehash for as many people as you would think.
Also I think it could be nice because, as you say, it throws all the old stuff out the window and gives us a fresh start, which is something the character might need.Well the parents thing is where we disagree. I believe the Kents are far more influential, but whatever. For the most part I agree.

[Reebee52]

Well the parents thing is where we disagree. I believe the Kents are far more influential, but whatever. For the most part I agree.

Oh the Kents are far more influential. I'm sorry I didn't mean to propagate that.
And I suppose, when it comes to his natural parents, their importance depends on how the writers want to use them. I prefer that Jor El be an important part of his son's life through the fortress of solitude, as in Smallville, the original movies, and SR. However, in Birthright and the Animated series, their importance is significantly downplayed, and I liked those stories too, obviously, since Birthright is one of my favorite stories and I think TAS was more on track than any other show/movie so far.
I guess for some reason I've always been fascinated by Jor El, since Marlon Brando's eloquent speeches are so amazing and the first episode of the Animated Series is one of my favorites and it doesn't even have Superman in it...
I'd like to see them, but of course if the movie is great without them, I won't mind.

[kalelkilla]

If there is a set of "parents" that need to be fleshed out more in the next movie, it is definitely the Kents. Both done well in Mark Waid's Birthright and Jeph Loeb's Superman For All Seasons. Plus, in an effort to make Superman more sympathetic and more "human" it is the Kents that need to be more apart of the story because the audience can relate to Clark more knowing his more human/humble side, represented by the Kents. I would like to see the Kents be kinda scared of the future with Clark, not really knowing what he is or if anyone is going to be looking for him. Mr. Kent's line in Superman For All Seasons when he says, "What exactly are we dealing with here?" in referring to Clark is very powerful. Plus it would be fun to see some scenes raising a 'super baby' I would rather see this mythos of Superman explored more thoroughly than the Kryptonian parents if I had to choose, other than maybe having them sending Kal-El to Earth being the the last act of true love on Krypton. Maybe show that Jor-El is a heroic/royal character with compassion from Krypton - showing that Superman does indeed come from a lineage of good people. Other than that, I don't really want to see much of Krypton unless it is intricate in the origin of the featured villain in the film...I would like to see a more realistic/human approach to Superman as much as possible... all the great heroes (Jesus, Hercules, Luke Skywalker, Superman) have a "godly" lineage/origin but are raised by humble/peasant people...creating a future great hero of the people...that is what needs to be represented well in the new movie...

[STC]

I really liked Birthright sans soul vision. I also liked the Donner, STAS, and Byrne origins.

We dont need another origin story though. Let Singer make Returns 2.

[Matt]

I was going to come in here and defend Schumacher as a director some more...but alas, if you can't beat them, join them:

...If Joel Shumacher directed Superman, Tom Welling would've played big blue

Ba Da Tss!

:cwink:

[I SEE SPIDEY]

We may not need another orgin but we do need a fresh version of Superman on the bigscreen. Singer has proven that he doesn't want to or cant do that so I'd say no Zod sequels.

Ofcourse Singer is unlikely to come back, with WB picking the screenwriters and taking more control so I'm pretty sure my wish is granted.

[Showtime]

idk if this has been discussed or not. but in the latest Wizard they talked about thhe Superman re-boot and that a director will be choosen by Christmas

Which Christmas? 2009?

[Mostpowerful]

Which Christmas? 2009?

:oldrazz: It probably was about that 'secret action director' Millar was talking about last year... LOL!

[Changeling]

Yeah wth happened with that?

[NeoRanger]

^^ Probably the same thing that happened with Santa; we found out he doesn't really exist.

[Changeling]

Santa doesnt exist? :(
:D

[Sawyer]

Millar seems to have been talking out of his ass... I think he's let the success of Wanted, one movie that didnt even stay true to his story, get to his head.

[FilmNerdJamie]

Millar seems to have been talking out of his ass...

Hence why everything that's come out has been crap.

[BH/HHH]

Wolfgang Petersen maybe

[smooth3006]

idk if this has been discussed or not. but in the latest Wizard they talked about thhe Superman re-boot and that a director will be choosen by Christmas


^ pure fail !:whatever:

[smoothbody]

Steven Spielberg hands down!!

[Spare-Flair]

I've always said I'd like to have Seinfeld.

That guy is actually a true blue Superman fan, more than many so-called Superman fans. He has a huge Superman comic collection.

[RachelDawes]

^Are you serious?

[dark_b]

because if you are a huge fan that means that you are the right man to be involved in a big budget blockbuster?

[El Payaso]

I've always said I'd like to have Seinfeld.

That guy is actually a true blue Superman fan, more than many so-called Superman fans. He has a huge Superman comic collection.

^ why so hilarious?

[Deaths Head II]

Superman: Whats the deal with Kryptonite? If it's from Krypton, and I'm from Krypton, you'd think it would be a little nicer to me!

Jimmy Olsen: That's gold Superman! Gold!

...But yeah, that's a terrible idea.

[Deaths Head II]

EDIT: Double Post for some reason.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

^ why so hilarious?:funny:

[El Payaso]

Superman: Whats the deal with Kryptonite? If it's from Krypton, and I'm from Krypton, you'd think it would be a little nicer to me!

Jimmy Olsen: That's gold Superman! Gold!

Perry White: Serenity NOW!

:funny:

:joker:

[Nightwing1977]

:funny:

Got that right. :hehe: :hehe:

And I guess next Christmas in '09 is when we will heard who is the new Superman director, hmm? :D

[Angeloz]

Is there an absolute deadline? So does that mean "Superman 1001" will be announced in 3000-4000 years before some kind of Christmas? ;)

Angeloz

[I Am The Knight]

Hence why everything that's come out has been crap.

Thank you...For that...

[\S/JcDc\S/]

Followed by big name actor announced on New Years

http://i34.tinypic.com/2e5o113.jpg

:rolleyes:

We are in limbo yet again Superman fans :(

http://www.pirc.info/images/limbo.jpg

[smooth3006]

jeez i hope we get some news this year on the project. im a bit worried this film might not happen. :csad:

[Webhead2006]

with all the undecision between the execs some wanting sequel some wanting a reboot who knows how long its going to be to we see any superman film on the big screen again.

[dark_b]

so how many times was MM wrong? waay to many times that 2 % of the sueprman fanbase should belive him.

but fact is that if tomorrow he will post news that he has a director for hes ''epic LOTR '' script people will start beliving him.............again.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

We are in limbo yet again Superman fans :(

http://www.pirc.info/images/limbo.jpgI know this is a week old but I have to comment.

This is one hillarious f**king post.

[FilmNerdJamie]

so how many times was MM wrong? waay to many times that 2 % of the sueprman fanbase should belive him.

but fact is that if tomorrow he will post news that he has a director for hes ''epic LOTR '' script people will start beliving him.............again.

Truer words (albeit misspelled and with terrible grammar - no offense!) were never spoken.

[manofsteel4life]

so how many times was MM wrong? waay to many times that 2 % of the sueprman fanbase should belive him.

but fact is that if tomorrow he will post news that he has a director for hes ''epic LOTR '' script people will start beliving him.............again.
that's what happens when some of us are desperate for any kind of news....like what alfred said to bruce when he was talking bout understanding the joker....."out of their desperation...the people turned to someone they didnt quite understand" :grin:

[FVD]

While Gotham is currently grounded in reality via Nolanverse, I can still see Superman easily flying around Gotham by day.

And so much for the new director announcement by Xmas. Now what?

[mjbull23]

perhaps xmas of 09 then?

besides even if there is never another superman movie realized, we will always have the lingering aftertaste of the last three installments. webscoe industries, nuclear man, miss kitty and her cannibalistic poodles......

what is it about superman that instantiates such movie magic?.?.

[Webhead2006]

wasnt this thread originally about when mark millar or who ever it was saying he was hoping to get wb to greenlit his script and his director he was looking at doing. But we know wb hasnt made any leerway on what is fully going on right.

[Angeloz]

wasnt this thread originally about when mark millar or who ever it was saying he was hoping to get wb to greenlit his script and his director he was looking at doing. But we know wb hasnt made any leerway on what is fully going on right.

They're perverts? :wow: ;) :p :D

Angeloz

[Webhead2006]

oh really angeloz

[Nightwing1977]

They're perverts? :wow: ;) :p :D

Angeloz

What do you know about perverts? And replying to that quote doesn't count. :oldrazz: :hehe:

[Showtime]

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=11381012&postcount=387

I am going to keep my source anonymous of course and just tell you that they have been quite reliable in the past.

As most of you know, I wouldn't post something like this unless I thought it might be of merit and spark of validity. Of course, I would not bet the Kent Farm on it, but take it for what you will.

"Singer is not cut loose but he knows that the WB can still make a Superman movie without him. It however will not have anything to do with the Superman Returns film franchise. There is a small team together looking for other options to keep the Superman movie franchise going.

These options are not only a new story, but a new cast, and while Brandon Routh is liked the possibility of casting a known actor is now at the forefront in order to convince the general public this is something TOTALLY new and has nothing to do with the Superman Returns franchise.

The WB does not want to pull the plug on the Superman franchise. Instead they want to give the reigns of the project to a new creative team. They are specifically looking into the Wachowski Bros. If a deal is not made within the next 6 months, they may go ahead with the Singer sequel with decent sized budget cuts and push the new Superman franchise back an extra few years (maybe 2012??)

That's why Singer has been given time to make another movie, and yes there is a delay on Superman Returns. WB is not commenting as of yet to keep things a little quiet while they decide if the possibility of the Wachowski Bros is large enough to flat out dump Singer."

[manofsteel4life]

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=11381012&postcount=387
hmmmm....and here.....wee....go

[batman44]

Take note unbelievers, Showtime knows what he's talking about, well, writing about.

[FlawlessVictory]

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=11381012&postcount=387

Haha, nice work. I think a Wachowski Superman film has potential. I wouldn't be opposed.

[\S/JcDc\S/]

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/40084

It's been probably 3-6 months since I posted what I heard about them doing a reboot... Now it seems they are still floating around. I guess it's always an idea with the WB, we'll see if something ever happens.

[\S/JcDc\S/]

We always get a Wach bros rumor when Superman is in limbo. I think it keeps the circle going or something. Like the earth would stop spinning if that rumor wasn't made each time.

[Excel]

The problem is, since any other rumors, Speed Racer has come and totally bombed.

They need a franchise like Supes for their carreers; if theres an offer there I doubt they turn it down.

[bunk]

Would it pretty much be a given that they'd write it as well?

[Excel]

Showtime that post is 2 years old; its taken them that bloody long?

Would it pretty much be a given that they'd write it as well?

Who knows. I'd bet they do rewrites on a script written by somebody of w.b.s choice.

[Showtime]

It is so hard for me to wrap my head around WB giving these guys the keys to the car for Superman after what just happened with Speed Racer. Superman Returns made money in the end, but it took them some time. Now WB is going to turn to "The W's" who just made Speed Racer which is still trying to break even. Yikes. I'm not a fan.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

It is so hard for me to wrap my head around WB giving these guys the keys to the car for Superman after what just happened with Speed Racer. Superman Returns made money in the end, but it took them some time. Now WB is going to turn to "The W's" who just made Speed Racer which is still trying to break even. Yikes. I'm not a fan.Exactly it's madness. Speed Racer hasn't made a dime and they are actually considering them???:huh:

[Excel]

Speed Racer was a poor choice by W.B. It would have bombed no matter who made it.

It is so hard for me to wrap my head around WB giving these guys the keys to the car for Superman after what just happened with Speed Racer. Superman Returns made money in the end, but it took them some time. Now WB is going to turn to "The W's" who just made Speed Racer which is still trying to break even. Yikes. I'm not a fan.

W.B. is definitley back in 2002 mode. The fact that they are going after W would mean that they want action and fights galore.

Speed Racer a tongue in cheek cartoon movie. W.B. probably know if they unleash the W's imaginations on a script of W.B.'s choosing, you have a combination of an absurdly marketable film with a good script too boot. Its a win win.

That said, the W.B. have produced all of the W's movies. They probably know they are the only studio who will currently give them work, which gives the studio a ton of creative control over the film, while having directors who can handle big time action.

[Showtime]

Exactly it's madness. Speed Racer hasn't made a dime and they are actually considering them???:huh:

W.B. is definitley back in 2002 mode. The fact that they are going after W would mean that they want action and fights galore.

Speed Racer a tongue in cheek cartoon movie. W.B. probably know if they unleash the W's imaginations on a script of W.B.'s choosing, you have a combination of an absurdly marketable film with a good script too boot. Its a win win.

That said, the W.B. have produced all of the W's movies. They probably know they are the only studio who will currently give them work, which gives the studio a ton of creative control over the film, while having directors who can handle big time action.

I just don't really consider this an upgrade at this point. I would rather have Campbell directing Superman at this point and leave the W's to their Plastic Man. I guess we'll see how true this rumor really is.

[Excel]

Well yeah, Campbell would be a better choice. However, Superman will make money no matter what; the question is will be a ton (500 million +) or an average amount (350-400 million).

Green Lantern isn't like that, it will have to be quality.

[Showtime]

Superman will make money no matter what? Were you around for Superman Returns?

[Excel]

Superman Returns made 390 million. That is a lot of money, just not what theywanted for a brand as famous. They want 500 milion +. Anything under 300 is a bomb. Between 3-4 is simply dissappointing.

[[A]]

oh noes--you Supes-fans better gather round and stop the Hackowskis from doing it

[Showtime]

Right so I wouldn't go around saying that Superman will automatically make a certain amount...one of the executives said the exact same thing about Returns. Pie in face?

[Octoberist]

also, Superman Returns got lost within the 'Pirates 2' hype. And I'll be honest, not a whole lot of people I know have seen or remembers Superman Returns.

That sucks because, well it's Superman and IT SHOULD be an event.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I just don't really consider this an upgrade at this point. I would rather have Campbell directing Superman at this point and leave the W's to their Plastic Man. I guess we'll see how true this rumor really is.I see this as something worst too... and thats saying alot because I'm not a fan of Singer! I'm one of his harshes critics as a matter of fact. The W-Bro's just came off of a bomb, thats become a pop culture joke and they should be allowed to direct Super-Freakin-Man?

I think with a good script that a director like Francis Lawrence or Peter Berg could do wonders. Plus WB could control them.

[Showtime]

I think two years ago before Speed Racer I might not have felt this way, but now...I don't get it.

[Excel]

Right so I wouldn't go around saying that Superman will automatically make a certain amount

Superman will make money no matter what; the question is will be a ton (500 million +) or an average amount (350-400 million).


Superman Returns made 390 million.

Superman Returns made money, it was just on the lower scale.

[The Guard]

There are probably worse choices. Depends on their "vision".

I'm keenly interested in PLASTIC MAN, though.

[Excel]

I think with a good script that a director like Francis Lawrence or Peter Berg could do wonders. Plus WB could control them.

With a good script and W.B. in charge of casting, we will get a good movie as well.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I think two years ago before Speed Racer I might not have felt this way, but now...I don't get it.Pre Matrix sequels I would have been jumping for joy at the prospect. I know you don't like the first Matrix so you probably wouldn't have felt as happy as I would have.

With a good script and W.B. in charge of casting, we will get a good movie as well.I don't know about all that, they did sign off on Superman Returns.

[Double Down]

If it was just Speed Racer, it would be one thing. But it's also those two terrible Matrix sequels.

[Excel]

If the Wachowskis do Superman, they will not have nearly as much creative control as they had on the Matrix sequels or Speed Racer.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Yay, I'm so happy that we have something to talk about again!

[Showtime]

Superman Returns made money, it was just on the lower scale.

Businesses don't run on just making money, they run on making PROFIT.

[Excel]

I don't know about all that, they did sign off on Superman Returns.

Superman Returns was an excellent script that screwed over by the director and editors. Not my dream mind you, but the character arcs were excellent. Much of the action was taken out after it was approved due to budget reasons.

[Excel]

Businesses don't run on just making money, they run on making PROFIT.

They did make a profit, just a small one, which is why we have the case we have here. They know theres a ton of unused potential in this franchise which is why they are turning to a team like the Wachowskis, who will give them the most marketable movie (based on matiriel only) since Episode 1 or Matrix Reloaded.

Wachowskis superman is MONEY SHOTS GALORE. If they get the right actors and release date, records could fall. Its essentially the same formula that got W.B. Batman back in 1989.

[Showtime]

Superman Returns was an excellent script that screwed over by the director and editors. Not my dream mind you, but the character arcs were excellent. Much of the action was taken out after it was approved due to budget reasons.

Singer basically wrote the script, so he screwed himself over. :csad:

[Showtime]

They did make a profit, just a small one, which is why we have the case we have here. They know theres a ton of unused potential in this franchise which is whythey are turning to a team like the Wachowskis, who will give them the most marketable movie since Episode 1.

Right, it made a profit after it was all said and done, a small one. Speed Racer has yet to make one. What am I missing.

[Excel]

Right, it made a profit after it was all said and done, a small one. Speed Racer has yet to make one. What am I missing.

Speed Racer wouldnt have made a profit if Spielberg had made it. W.B. wanted alive action cartoon, it was always going to be. Superman is not like that at all.

[Excel]

Singer basically wrote the script, so he screwed himself over. :csad:

Yes, but Singers approved script featured a lot more rescues, tidal waves, collapsing bridges, flooding subways and fying trains. A lot more exciting than we got.

The rescue sequence money was all spent on the bullet in eye shot. Tidal wave replaced with mild Earthquake, collapsing brige replaced with plummeting globe, flooding subway replaced with firery sewer, and flying train replaced with falling sign.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Superman Returns was an excellent script that screwed over by the director and editors. Not my dream mind you, but the character arcs were excellent. Much of the action was taken out after it was approved due to budget reasons.Did the script have a Superfight/Supervillain and a completely serious Lex Luthor who didn't allow some dumb dame in his crew? Did it have Supes saying goodbye to Lois and the world before he left? Did it have have Superman use a Super condom before he had sex with Lois so that their would be no chance of leaving a kid behind in case Humans and Kryptonians can mate?

I'm sure the script was professionally writen but I can't see how it would change my mind about the plot points and rehashed storyline.

[Showtime]

Speed Racer wouldnt have made a profit if Spielberg had made it. W.B. wanted alive action cartoon, it was always going to be. Superman is not like that at all.

Excel, you keep saying Superman will make money because it is Superman but my biggest evidence that crushes any point you make is Superman Returns.

If that was the case they should have gotten it off the ground in 2007 and started moving towards another Superman movie, director wouldn't matter, because it is Superman.

Yes, but Singers approved script featured a lot more rescues, tidal waves, collapsing bridges, flooding subways and fying trains. A lot more exciting than we got.

The rescue sequence money was all spent on the bullet in eye shot. Tidal wave replaced with mild Earthquake, collapsing brige replaced with plummeting globe, flooding subway replaced with firery sewer, and flying train replaced with falling sign.

Right. Singer screwed himself, not the other way around. He was the one who was not using the budget in the correct manner, that is a directors responsibility.

[Nightwing1977]

I just don't really consider this an upgrade at this point. I would rather have Campbell directing Superman at this point and leave the W's to their Plastic Man. I guess we'll see how true this rumor really is.

Same here. I wouldn't mind Campbell directing since he did a great job with Casino Royale & I admit to quite liking Goldeneye. It would be great if he work with Routh. I know he wanted someone else for Bond in CR, but the bosses made him go with Craig & I'm glad he obliged. :)

Yay, I'm so happy that we have something to talk about again!

And we will have more war again soon. Exciting, isn't it? :twisted:

[Webhead2006]

Yea interesting developments, i dont know what i would think of the bros did take over the reigns. Though hopefully things will get moving in the best direction sooner rather then later.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Same here. I wouldn't mind Campbell directing since he did a great job with Casino Royale & I admit to quite liking Goldeneye. It would be great if he work with Routh. I know he wanted someone else for Bond in CR, but the bosses made him go with Craig & I'm glad he obliged. :)



And we will have more war again soon. Exciting, isn't it? :twisted:You are terrible...And thats why I like you.:o

[Octoberist]

Yes, but Singers approved script featured a lot more rescues, tidal waves, collapsing bridges, flooding subways and fying trains. A lot more exciting than we got.

The rescue sequence money was all spent on the bullet in eye shot. Tidal wave replaced with mild Earthquake, collapsing brige replaced with plummeting globe, flooding subway replaced with firery sewer, and flying train replaced with falling sign.

no way. are you serious? Where did you get the info from? :wow:

[Showtime]

The bullet to the eye sequence including the bank robbery cost 2.3 million, the rescue sequence that was planned would have cost much more. No idea where Excel comes up with this stuff.

[Excel]

Excel, you keep saying Superman will make money because it is Superman but my biggest evidence that crushes any point you make is Superman Returns.

Superman Returns MADE money. :huh:

It just failed to maximize the brand names potential. It was a bomb like the 2 hulk movies, but it was not a smash either. It was in the middle. Right now, with Batman franchise hotter than hell, 3 more masive harry potter movies and 2 hobbit movies on the way, all 5 which are locks for 800 million world wide, W.B. feel like they can take a chance to go for another home run hit with Superman. No more middle ground like SR. This is not the same W.B. that ran the show in 2006.

It starts at the very basic question: HOW do you make the next Superman movie an EVENT? It all starts with the basic money shots that SR totally lacked, and thats what the Wachowskis will give them.

If that was the case they should have gotten it off the ground in 2007 and started moving towards another Superman movie, director wouldn't matter, because it is Superman.

Like I said. W.B. are in a position where they do not have to rush. They arent FOX who has nothing left. Superman has the possibility to be the grand daddy of all the ones they have. They played safe with SR, trying ti simply start a franchise like they did with BB. If they go with a director like W's they are going for the grand slam if you catch my drift, they'll want a collosal hype machine for a franchise starter ala Spidey 1 or Transformers. Thats what they wanted in 2002, but were so desperate to get it off the ground they took whatever Singer would do as long as they got him.

[Superark]

It is so hard for me to wrap my head around WB giving these guys the keys to the car for Superman after what just happened with Speed Racer. Superman Returns made money in the end, but it took them some time. Now WB is going to turn to "The W's" who just made Speed Racer which is still trying to break even. Yikes. I'm not a fan.

I just don't really consider this an upgrade at this point. I would rather have Campbell directing Superman at this point and leave the W's to their Plastic Man. I guess we'll see how true this rumor really is.


I'm in total 100% agreement with you Showtime! I don't get this at all, not one bit.

It's like handing over the keys to M. Knight Shyamalan. The guy may be a huge Superman fan, but he has not had a hit since Signs and makes crap movies now.

The W. Brothers are such a risk IMO.

[FilmNerdJamie]

The problem with the Wachowski rumor is they delivered a massive flop with Speed Racer.

And WB is said to keep a very close eye on the next Superman film - i.e. no more writing blank-checks to a director and letting em go nuts.

After they lost money on Racer (a film I liked, for the record), I seriously can't see them handing the keys to the Superman franchise over to them.

[Excel]

No it wouldn't. The rescue sequences was Superman stopping a robbery in a deli, saving some stranded mountain climbers, and saving a boat caught in a storm. That was the original plan for the directors mouth himself. But, they opted to go with the one robbery scene instead.

no way. are you serious? Where did you get the info from? :wow:

Its from a Bryan Singer interview where he defended the films budget, he was referring to the budget they had to do.

[Showtime]

Superman Returns MADE money. :huh:

It just failed to maximize the brand names potential. It was a bomb like the 2 hulk movies, but it was not a smash either. It was in the middle. Right now, with Batman franchise hotter than hell, 3 more masive harry potter movies and 2 hobbit movies on the way, all 5 which are locks for 800 million world wide, W.B. feel like they can take a chance to go for another home run hit with Superman. No more middle ground like SR. This is not the same W.B. that ran the show in 2006.

I didn't say that Superman Returns didn't make money, but WB thought that Superman would be huge just because it was Superman, this wasn't the case. You're saying it is still the case and with the Wackowskis at the helm it will make money because it is Superman.

It starts at the very basic question: HOW do you make the next Superman movie an EVENT? It all starts with the basic money shots that SR totally lacked, and thats what the Wachowskis will give them.

Well right now the Whachowskis aren't giving them anything because so far it is just a rumor, and how you can guarantee that after what you are calling 3 straight bombs by the W's is scary.


Like I said. W.B. are in a position where they do not have to rush. They arent FOX who has nothing left. Superman has the possibility to be the grand daddy of all the ones they have. They played safe with SR, trying ti simply start a franchise like they did with BB. If they go with a director like W's they are going for the grand slam if you catch my drift, they'll want a collosal hype machine for a franchise starter ala Spidey 1 or Transformers. Thats what they wanted in 2002, but were so desperate to get it off the ground they took whatever Singer would do as long as they got him.

...and you are happy with them giving the grand daddy of all the ones they have to the W BroSis?

[I SEE SPIDEY]

The problem with the Wachowski rumor is they delivered a massive flop with Speed Racer.

And WB is said to keep a very close eye on the next Superman film - i.e. no more writing blank-checks to a director and letting em go nuts.

After they lost money on Racer (a film I liked, for the record), I seriously can't see them handing the keys to the Superman franchise over to them.Studios have done stranger things but I am having trouble swallowing this rumor for that very reason. Speed Racer wasn't just a bomb, it was a mega bomb.

[Showtime]

No it wouldn't. The rescue sequences was Superman stopping a robbery in a deli, saving some stranded mountain climbers, and saving a boat caught in a storm. That was the original plan for the directors mouth himself. But, they opted to go with the one robbery scene instead.



Its from a Bryan Singer interview where he defended the films budget, he was referring to the budget they had to do.

...its because Singer spent the budget in other places like cornfields. Singer was given a budget, wasted it in the wrong places then couldn't deliver the original sequences. It's pretty cut and dry.

[Excel]

...its because Singer spent the budget in other places like cornfields. Singer was given a budget, wasted it in the wrong places then couldn't deliver the original sequences. It's pretty cut and dry.

I agree, I am not defending the guy :nono:

[Showtime]

Then I still love you.

[cerealkiller182]

I dont really like the poll options cause neither really suits me I think.

I am excited to hear what the Wachowski's have in mind. They would certainly give a more visually stunning Superman, but I feel that when they arn't reigned in by the producer they either get ahead of themselves in the motifs and themes (a la Matrix sequels) or go a little crazy with the visuals (a la Speed Racer). I appreciate bringing in a new point of view, Im just not sure if the Wachowski's have the write POV for Superman

[Showtime]

That is just an old poll, I had to merge a bunch of threads to create this one. I'll try and switch it.

[Superman2007]

The problem with the Wachowski rumor is they delivered a massive flop with Speed Racer.

And WB is said to keep a very close eye on the next Superman film - i.e. no more writing blank-checks to a director and letting em go nuts.

After they lost money on Racer (a film I liked, for the record), I seriously can't see them handing the keys to the Superman franchise over to them.

Yes, Speed Racer was a flop...but The Matrix Trilogy and all the film tie-ins brought Warner Bros. amazing success when they had no superheroes fighting for them. Studios don't just abandon directors if they put out a flop. Look at M. Knight Shamaylan he's made four crap films in a row and he's still getting funded. Will Warner Bros. keep a tight leash on the Wachowskis? Yeah, but I think the Wachowskis will be able to deliver under Warner's oversight.

[FilmNerdJamie]

Lady in the Water was M. Night's only money-losing film. Every other one turned a profit.

And Racer was a huge high-profile failure and their most recent film. You're only as good as your last hit in Hollywood.

[hockeyboy89]

The problem with the Wachowski rumor is they delivered a massive flop with Speed Racer.

And WB is said to keep a very close eye on the next Superman film - i.e. no more writing blank-checks to a director and letting em go nuts.

After they lost money on Racer (a film I liked, for the record), I seriously can't see them handing the keys to the Superman franchise over to them.

I'm with you on this. I didn't care for The Matrix myself, but it was was cool for what it was. It was a huge success and the sequels were pushed through and were no where near as good. I also enjoyed Speed Racer, but I went with the kids and maybe that was it. I read they are comic fans, which is a plus. At least they "get it", would prolly follow mythos, etc. They know action, and that bodes well. As mush as I wanted a SR sequel, they will have to totally reboot without Routh :csad:. It would be too confusing to the general public if Routh is there, but Jason, Richard, etc are gone and it's a different storyline. I can't imagine explaining to my 4 year old why Supermans son isn't there but it's the same Superman. He understood that the Hulk was "just a different Hulk" movie.

All and all, I'm excited by some news on the Superman front, but man I am scared. Their track record lately is....um.....yeah.......I'm gonna get back to my TPS reports

[Excel]

I didn't say that Superman Returns didn't make money, but WB thought that Superman would be huge just because it was Superman, this wasn't the case. You're saying it is still the case and with the Wackowskis at the helm it will make money because it is Superman.

Here is the deal:
350 million and under = bomb
350-400 million = can't complain hit
~400 million = big hit
~400 million = huge hit
~600 million = bonafide blockbuster

W.B. know that SUPERMAN, on his own, is a LOCK to not be a bomb. It WILL make money. The only question is how much. Will it be HUGE ala Spidey and TDK or not so huge ala BB or SR. They knew it wouldnt bomb, and it didn't bomb. W.B. do not know that Green Lantern wont bomb, hence why it will likely be the more quality film.

W.B. concern was they knew there was a TON of potential left. Reading Abrams script its bloody obvious that film would have made Star Wars sized money as a franchise starter, that is why W.B. fell in love with it and evidently if this rumor is true are back in that sort of action first mode.

You can see why they are BEGGING for Krypton to be reinvented on the big screen, you can see why they are DESPERATE to have them fight alien villains. It would be awesome and it would make them so much bloody green $$$$.

The W bros are money shot kings, just watch the Matrix trailers. Them doing Superman is a marketers dream come true.

Well right now the Whachowskis aren't giving them anything because so far it is just a rumor, and how you can guarantee that after what you are calling 3 straight bombs by the W's is scary.

Because Speed Racer HAD money shot's, its problem was it was Speed Racer. The Matrix Revolutions HAD money shots, 2nd had just come out and sucked 6 months ago so nobody wanted to see it. V for Vendetta was a great movie but too out there to be a big hit.

Just watch the Matrix trailers and you can see why a W bros superman movie would make mega bucks. God its unfair. If I was in charge I would make W.B. so much ****ing money off the Superman property. The Wachowskis are EXACTLY the type of director's Superman needs to be a huge hit. Theyll give it flair, style, and action, everything the last one didnt have and everything you need to be able to properly hype a film.

...and you are happy with them giving the grand daddy of all the ones they have to the W BroSis?

If I was W.B. from a business stand point yes. However, from a quality perspective, W.B. would have to be sure to activiley involved.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Lady in the Water was M. Night's only money-losing film. Every other one turned a profit.

And Racer was a huge high-profile failure and their most recent film. You're only as good as your last hit in Hollywood.Exactly. I hated The Happening but it was not a money loser.

[FilmNerdJamie]

http://www.geocities.com/vibestothemax/chill_pill.jpg

[I SEE SPIDEY]

http://www.geocities.com/vibestothemax/chill_pill.jpgwth???

[Showtime]

Here is the deal:
350 million and under = bomb
350-400 million = can't complain hit
~400 million = big hit
~400 million = huge hit
~600 million = bonafide blockbuster

Sorry bud, I don't subscribe to "The Mixed Up Box Office Files Of Mr. Excel".

W.B. know that SUPERMAN, on his own, is a LOCK to not be a bomb. It WILL make money. The only question is how much. Will it be HUGE ala Spidey and TDK or not so huge ala BB or SR. They knew it wouldnt bomb, and it didn't bomb. W.B. do not know that Green Lantern wont bomb, hence why it will likely be the more quality film.

It didn't bomb but it performed below expectations, projections, and anticipation.

W.B. concern was they knew there was a TON of potential left. Reading Abrams script its bloody obvious that film would have made Star Wars sized money as a franchise starter, that is why W.B. fell in love with it and evidently if this rumor is true are back in that sort of action first mode.

Nothing is obvious Excel, you can't look at a script and say this will be Star Wars...:huh:

You can see why they are BEGGING for Krypton to be reinvented on the big screen, you can see why they are DESPERATE to have them fight alien villains. It would be awesome and it would make them so much bloody green $$$$.


You're letting your fanboyisms get in the way of clear thinking here.

The W bros are money shot kings, just watch the Matrix trailers. Them doing Superman is a marketers dream come true.

Because Speed Racer HAD money shot's, its problem was it was Speed Racer. The Matrix Revolutions HAD money shots, 2nd had just come out and sucked 6 months ago so nobody wanted to see it. V for Vendetta was a great movie but too out there to be a big hit.

Just watch the Matrix trailers and you can see why a W bros superman movie would make mega bucks. God its unfair. If I was in charge I would make W.B. so much ****ing money off the Superman property. The Wachowskis are EXACTLY the type of director's Superman needs to be a huge hit. Theyll give it flair, style, and action, everything the last one didnt have and everything you need to be able to properly hype a film.

So they make good trailers? They aren't even responsible for cutting them...

So your logic is that since the W's have had 3, what you call bombs, that it only makes sense to give them the biggest character they have in their arsenal because they have to get it right? :huh:

You would make them so much money? By your logic in these past hour or so I would never hire you. :yay:

If I was W.B. from a business stand point yes. However, from a quality perspective, W.B. would have to be sure to activiley involved.

...and now you are saying they won't be quality directors...:csad:

If you want money shots there are much better directors out there than these guys.

[SuperDaniel]

SR just sucked and wasn't a FUN movie at all. Singer just let down everybody. The WBros are nerds and love the comics. They are on their way to their dream job with Superman. I doubt they would **** it up.

[Superman2007]

Lady in the Water was M. Night's only money-losing film. Every other one turned a profit.

And Racer was a huge high-profile failure and their most recent film. You're only as good as your last hit in Hollywood.

Yeah but Speed Racer wasn't even a real film in a way...it was more like a CGI acid trip,lol.

"Warner Bros. doesn't let the Wachowski Bros. go with Plastic Man as their next project (and they may not, according to McTeigue, because of a "major shake up of projects at WB"), then they could be the guys who reboot the Superman franchise."

What I don't get is if Warner Bros. decides not to greenlight the Wachowskis for Plastic Man, why would they greenlight them for Superman?

That's like the WB saying to the Wachowskis..."Hey don't take the keys for my Honda, here, take the keys for my Aston Martin."

[FilmNerdJamie]

Speed Racer was in fact a film. And the Plastic Man rumors have never been confirmed.

In fact, wasn't a rumor posted on AICN a year ago about Joel Silver giving a radio interview in Germany talking about Plastic Man?!? :huh:

[luke1234]

Wachowki's would make an awesome superman in my opinion

[SuperDaniel]

^Hell yes! They actually made Speed Racer into something cool. It was horrible but the cartoon was cheesy and stupid too.

Superman would be their dream job and hell yeah, at least we will get a FUN Superman movie instead of another melodrama BS with Superman's son.

[Double Down]

Why would Warner Bros. take Superman, coming off a movie that they said underperformed, and give him to filmmakers coming off a huge bomb so that they can make a trilogy?
It just doesn't make sense to me in any way. What if the first movie of the trilogy also underperforms? What if they pick a new Superman and he is hated? Are they going to pick another Superman or will they just keep going with this trilogy no matter what? There is just too much that doesn't add up to take this as gospel right now.

[SuperDaniel]

Because, looking at the Matrix movies, the Wachowsky can really make a great Superman movie.

[Showtime]

I don't understand the logic. The W's made The Matrix so they can make Superman...

Didn't WB have that same logic when they hired Singer to do Superman? Singer made X-Men so he can make Superman.

Oops.

Burton made Batman so he can make Superman.

Oops.

[luke1234]

Personally, i think the Wachowki's are great directors. If you get some good actors in there, and a decent script writer im in. Wachowski's should just direct imo, i dont know if there up for a script.

[Double Down]

By the way, Wachowski is spelled wrong in the thread's title.

[hockeyboy89]

[quote=Superman2007;16428371]
What I don't get is if Warner Bros. decides not to greenlight the Wachowskis for Plastic Man, why would they greenlight them for Superman?
quote]

Maybe they are the fall back plan.....I mean Singer was still in the mix (somewhat as it was never said he wasn't), McG, Abrams, etc all were mentioned. Maybe they were hoping for another big name and are going to ride "the team that brought you the Maxtrix Trilogy"

[hockeyboy89]

Why would Warner Bros. take Superman, coming off a movie that they said underperformed, and give him to filmmakers coming off a huge bomb so that they can make a trilogy?
It just doesn't make sense to me in any way. What if the first movie of the trilogy also underperforms? What if they pick a new Superman and he is hated? Are they going to pick another Superman or will they just keep going with this trilogy no matter what? There is just too much that doesn't add up to take this as gospel right now.

Yeah that bothers me.....we may end up with a Singer issue where is is attached, but but not attached, prolly as producer, not director, nonsense.

[Excel]

Nothing is obvious Excel, you can't look at a script and say this will be Star Wars...:huh:

I am comparing the projects marketabilty.

You're letting your fanboyisms get in the way of clear thinking here.

No I am not, bro I have a good feel for what sells. Thats what they want. They want the Sci fi angle because theres MAD money. They want these huge awe shots that we got in the transformers trailers (the ones of the rocks plummeting towards Earth). THAT IS WHAT SELLS.

So they make good trailers? They aren't even responsible for cutting them...

They give you say many money shots that its the easiest thing ever. Case in point:

F0On9Hf7Quc

So your logic is that since the W's have had 3, what you call bombs, that it only makes sense to give them the biggest character they have in their arsenal because they have to get it right? :huh:

They have 2 bombs, and only one of them was their fault. Again, Speed Racer was always going to bomb. The W's are unused talent. They could flourish on a project like Superman if properly managed. Theyd help with the romance angle, but thats it.

You would make them so much money? By your logic in these past hour or so I would never hire you. :yay:

Bro you don't follow me. The logic is there. I cant gaurentee itll be a great movie, but it would be damn marketable as get out. Itd be easy to give a taste of what a Wachowski Brothers Superman t.v. might look like...(this is winged so gimme a break but dont tell me it doesnt sound awesome :o)


-Quick flash of W.B. and D.C. logos
-Urgent, epic choir music bellows
-It's night time in Metropolis-quick shot as Superman ROCKETS into the camera
-IN 2 DAYS slices through the screen
-Lois Lane looks up, scared for her life
-An alien pod in outer space races by
-Jor-el's face looks down at us
-SUPERMAN
-Superman and alien villain shoot past the camera
-An explosion-cars fly upwards
-The alien villain plants down infront of us, the definition of menacing and badass
-Glimpse of Krpyton-flying cars and futuristic skyscrappers everywhere
-Opposite the villain, SUPERMAN's feet plant down infront of us
-ARRIVES
-Pan up to see the man of steel, ready for battle
-A building crumbles
-Lois grabs the edge, dangling
-A tidal wave swells
-The alien villain kicks and army jet in midair, sending it spiraling out of control
-We follow Superman and the alien villain from behind in slow mo as they, while wrestlig, smash through a skyscrappers 75th floor and out the other side
-SUPERMAN
-THIS FRIDAY

Thats the kind of stuff youll get from them, not "Superman hovers over Earth" or "a wing explodes". That **** is so weak and uncreative.

...and now you are saying they won't be quality directors...:csad:

Not if wb hand picks the script.

If you want money shots there are much better directors out there than these guys.

Honestly, not really. Nobody they can get. Bay is the only one who is in their league.

[cerealkiller182]

Speed Racer was in fact a film. And the Plastic Man rumors have never been confirmed.

In fact, wasn't a rumor posted on AICN a year ago about Joel Silver giving a radio interview in Germany talking about Plastic Man?!? :huh:

I believe it has

http://splashpage.mtv.com/2008/07/23/exclusive-the-wachowskis-talk-plastic-man-movie/

[Showtime]

I am comparing the projects marketabilty.

You're comparing what you like and don't like. That isn't comparing marketability.


No I am not, bro I have a good feel for what sells. Thats what they want. They want the Sci fi angle because theres MAD money. They want these huge awe shots that we got in the transformers trailers (the ones of the rocks plummeting towards Earth). THAT IS WHAT SELLS.

I'm sure they want that, that isn't the argument, it is why are the W's the only ones who can deliver that.

They give you say many money shots that its the easiest thing ever. Case in point:

F0On9Hf7Quc


If it is the easiest thing ever why do they have to be the ones doing it and what makes them so special?


They have 2 bombs, and only one of them was their fault. Again, Speed Racer was always going to bomb. The W's are unused talent. They could flourish on a project like Superman if properly managed. Theyd help with the romance angle, but thats it.

Any movie that bombs has something to do with the directors. They don't just wash their hands of it.


Bro you don't follow me. The logic is there. I cant gaurentee itll be a great movie, but it would be damn marketable as get out. Itd be easy to give a taste of what a Wachowski Brothers Superman t.v. might look like...(this is winged so gimme a break but dont tell me it doesnt sound awesome :o)

I've followed some of your box office predictions, you guaranteeing something doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling.


Thats the kind of stuff youll get from them, not "Superman hovers over Earth" or "a wing explodes". That **** is so weak and uncreative.

So minor league Micheal Bay clones?

Not if wb hand picks the script.

If they don't? WB also greenlit Superman Returns. Keep that in mind.

Honestly, not really. Nobody they can get. Bay is the only one who is in their league.

I find this funny that you think the W's are even in a league of their own?

[FlawlessVictory]

I don't understand the logic. The W's made The Matrix so they can make Superman...

Didn't WB have that same logic when they hired Singer to do Superman? Singer made X-Men so he can make Superman.

Oops.

Burton made Batman so he can make Superman.

Oops.

Yea, but Excel is on the right track. What do you think WB wants to display most, front and center, in the next Superman film? Ridiculous action/fighting scenes. Are the Wachowski's capable of this? Absolutely. Whatever one thinks of the Matrix movies, one can't deny that there are some crazy fights in those movies.

Singer was coming off great success with X2 and was the toast of the town. Because of that, Singer basically got free reign. Wachowski's are coming off a bomb and have no leverage with the studio. If they agree, I'm sure they will have to concede to the studio a lot throughout the making of the film. The studio will have their control, which was their plan for the next director picked, while they still get directors who can deliver something epic in scale which was not achieved with the character before.

I totally understand where the studio would be coming from, if in fact this rumor is true.

[Excel]

You're comparing what you like and don't like. That isn't comparing marketability.

No I am not, what I like it Superman on film period. But I know what sells.

I'm sure they want that, that isn't the argument, it is why are the W's the only ones who can deliver that.

Who else is there that are realistic and would be ableto be partially controlled by the studio execs?

If it is the easiest thing ever why do they have to be the ones doing it and what makes them so special?

Making trailers for WACHOWSKI BROS MOVIES is the easiest thing in the world ;)

Any movie that bombs has something to do with the directors. They don't just wash their hands of it.

I didnt say that, I just said it is totally, 110% unreasonable to expect them to make a propertythat unappealing ito a hit.

I've followed some of your box office predictions, you guaranteeing something doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling.

What did you follow? My gaurentee tdk topped 300 in April when nobody outside of Norm thought it would?Me calling Iron Mans 250 million July 2007, simply because it was obvious from the footage at comic con they had the right approach from a marketing standpoint, which is exactly what I am referring to here?

So minor league Micheal Bay clones?

Unlike Bay, they have one great film to their credit.

If they don't? WB also greenlit Superman Returns. Keep that in mind.

This is a different w.b. A very different one. Last time they wanted a slightly bigger version of BB money wise. They were expecting 250 u.s. / 250 overseason. They didnt need some 300-400 million u.s. hit. Now I believe they are going for all the $$$$.


I find this funny that you think the W's are even in a league of their own?


When it comes to money shots? Its them, Bay , Spielberg, and Emmerich. Wolfgang Peterson was there too before he stopped making mvies. Stephon Sommers tries too hard. Jon Favreau is on his way.

[Double Down]

Here are my problems with it:

1. The Wachowski defenders are saying the movie will be good because the studio will have control over them. How reassuring is it that the brothers need to be babysat to produce a good movie? And why do people have faith in WB all of the sudden? People have been ripping the studio apart for not knowing what it is doing. Now "the studio" is supposed to be able to keep the Wachowskis in line?

2. People keep citing The Matrix as proof that the brothers will make a great movie. The Matrix had two things going for it -- a cool plot and ground-breaking special effects. However, people want someone other than them to come up with the plot for this one, and The Matrix was 10 years ago. Their last attempt to make a movie with ground-breaking fx was Speed Racer. And we all know how that turned out. Just because you can do something once does not mean you can do it again.

3. They haven't made a movie worth seeing since 1999. The sequels were abysmal and Speed Racer was an epic failure.

4. Let's say they somehow buck the odds and make a really good Superman movie. Then what? Are they going to be content to let WB control them on the sequels or are they going to want to do it their way? I think you know the answer and it's Superman Reloaded and Superman Revolutions.

There are just too many other directors available for Wanrer Bros. to take this big of a risk, because if they screw it up, we won't see another Superman movie for a very long time.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Here are my problems with it:

1. The Wachowski defenders are saying the movie will be good because the studio will have control over them. How reassuring is it that the brothers need to be babysat to produce a good movie? And why do people have faith in WB all of the sudden? People have been ripping the studio apart for not knowing what it is doing. Now "the studio" is supposed to be able to keep the Wachowskis in line?

2. People keep citing The Matrix as proof that the brothers will make a great movie. The Matrix had two things going for it -- a cool plot and ground-breaking special effects. However, people want someone other than them to come up with the plot for this one, and The Matrix was 10 years ago. Their last attempt to make a movie with ground-breaking fx was Speed Racer. And we all know how that turned out. Just because you can do something once does not mean you can do it again.

3. They haven't made a movie worth seeing since 1999. The sequels were abysmal and Speed Racer was an epic failure.

4. Let's say they somehow buck the odds and make a really good Superman movie. Then what? Are they going to be content to let WB control them on the sequels or are they going to want to do it their way? I think you know the answer and it's Superman Reloaded and Superman Revolutions.

There are just too many other directors available for Wanrer Bros. to take this big of a risk, because if they screw it up, we won't see another Superman movie for a very long time.:bow:

[SuperDaniel]

The thing is that they are fans of the comics. They did a good adaptation with V for Vendetta. Superman is much more up their league.

[Excel]

Nobody has named one realistic available director for the job.

[batman44]

I thought Speed Racer was pretty good:o

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Nobody has named one realistic available director for the job.I brought up Francis Lawrence who directed WB's 585mil dollar smash "I am Legend." I also said I like the looks of his films and with better screenplays than "I am Legend" and "Constantine" I think that he would do a good job. (I liked both movies BTW but they weren't great or anything)

[SuperDaniel]

^2 movies that sucked? No thanks...Constantine was ok-ish but I am Legend was one of the worst movies i've ever seen.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

^2 movies that sucked? No thanks...Constantine was ok-ish but I am Legend was one of the worst movies i've ever seen.And the W-Bros have had atleast 2 terrible movies in the Martix sequels. I liked both of Lawrence's movies a hell of alot better than those two disasters.

We will just have to agree to disagree.

[I Am The Knight]

Here are my problems with it:

1. The Wachowski defenders are saying the movie will be good because the studio will have control over them. How reassuring is it that the brothers need to be babysat to produce a good movie? And why do people have faith in WB all of the sudden? People have been ripping the studio apart for not knowing what it is doing. Now "the studio" is supposed to be able to keep the Wachowskis in line?

After Speed Racer, yes. The Wachowskis would be extremely lucky to get a gig such as this. So they'll obey if they have to, not that I think WB will force anything particularly unpleaseant down their throath. I think it's more of a collaborative effort these days, anyway. WB/DC/Director. WB, since 2005, has consistently put out good to great comic book films. That cannot be ignored. The summit supposedly changed things, with the Wachowskis supposedly being fans of the comics...

2. People keep citing The Matrix as proof that the brothers will make a great movie. The Matrix had two things going for it -- a cool plot and ground-breaking special effects. However, people want someone other than them to come up with the plot for this one, and The Matrix was 10 years ago. Their last attempt to make a movie with ground-breaking fx was Speed Racer. And we all know how that turned out. Just because you can do something once does not mean you can do it again.

How did Speed Racer turn out? You mean that it was so absolutely bat**** crazy that it bombed right out of the gate? I'm sure they are being considered for their visual skills mostly, and do you think that WB would let them experiment that way with Superman? Come on.

3. They haven't made a movie worth seeing since 1999. The sequels were abysmal and Speed Racer was an epic failure.

None of their movies have been worth seeing? On any level whatsoever?

4. Let's say they somehow buck the odds and make a really good Superman movie. Then what? Are they going to be content to let WB control them on the sequels or are they going to want to do it their way? I think you know the answer and it's Superman Reloaded and Superman Revolutions.

Complete speculation. The Matrix was it's own thing. We don't even know what they would want to do with Superman. It can go both ways. And if you're worried about Jesus undertones, they don't have to write the movies at all. They would be lucky to be getting this movie after how much money they cost WB last year.

There are just too many other directors available for Wanrer Bros. to take this big of a risk, because if they screw it up, we won't see another Superman movie for a very long time.

I guess I just don't see this huge risk here. We're not talking about Cameron doing Superman. Not even Fox will touch him. This is the Wachowskis after Speed Racer bombed.

[jrd550]

:woot:The thing is that they are fans of the comics. They did a good adaptation with V for Vendetta. Superman is much more up their league.

[FlawlessVictory]

Here are my problems with it:

1. The Wachowski defenders are saying the movie will be good because the studio will have control over them. How reassuring is it that the brothers need to be babysat to produce a good movie? And why do people have faith in WB all of the sudden? People have been ripping the studio apart for not knowing what it is doing. Now "the studio" is supposed to be able to keep the Wachowskis in line?

I'm not saying the Wachowskis will be good because the studio will have control over them. I'm saying, they fit the profile now of what the studio is looking for according to Showtime and FilmNerdJamie. The fact is, the next director will be at the mercy of the studio to a certain degree. This doesn't mean I think that will be good. However, accepting that is the situation, and knowing that the Wachowskis can potentially deliver something special visually, than I can understand that route and I am not opposed to it.

Plus, supposedly since the summit, it's not just the studio now with these superhero films. It is the studio and DC Comics and that makes a huge difference. So yea, maybe WB still doesn't know exactly what they are doing with these properties but considering they are now willing to bring in DC into this, that goes a long way in admitting their shortcomings and allows for something that could satisfy both the hardcore fans and GA. Time will tell how effective that summit was, but it's not just the studio anymore, and that's a relief.

2. People keep citing The Matrix as proof that the brothers will make a great movie. The Matrix had two things going for it -- a cool plot and ground-breaking special effects. However, people want someone other than them to come up with the plot for this one, and The Matrix was 10 years ago. Their last attempt to make a movie with ground-breaking fx was Speed Racer. And we all know how that turned out. Just because you can do something once does not mean you can do it again.

And it can't be ruled that they can't do it again since they have accomplished that before.

3. They haven't made a movie worth seeing since 1999. The sequels were abysmal and Speed Racer was an epic failure.

I understand the reservations, I really do. But I understand where WB is coming from as well. And I think, with the Wachowskis knowledge of comics and DC Comics being involved as well, it could turn out to be something very good.

4. Let's say they somehow buck the odds and make a really good Superman movie. Then what? Are they going to be content to let WB control them on the sequels or are they going to want to do it their way? I think you know the answer and it's Superman Reloaded and Superman Revolutions.

Well, if the formula was: Wachowski's + input from DC + some concessions to the studio = big hit, why would the studio automatically change the formula to give complete free reign to them. You stick to the formula that works, right?

There are just too many other directors available for Wanrer Bros. to take this big of a risk, because if they screw it up, we won't see another Superman movie for a very long time.

And if they get it right, this could be something that goes a long way in satisfying a lot of people.

[Lighthouse]

I'll be perfectly honest and say the I really liked Speed Racer. I loathed the TV show, but found the movie to be quite exhilarating and fun. Should it have been about a half hour shorter? Definitely, but I still think its a quality film.

Really liked the Matrix, kinda liked Matrix Reloaded, and absolutely hated Revolutions. Still, if this turns out to be true, I'll feel fairly optimistic about the next Superman. I think they have real potential to make it a thrilling and fun movie.

[bunk]

They would really need to convince me they're a good choice for the franchise. At this point I don't like the idea.

[SuperDaniel]

:D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oNdGHU_kHU

[I Am The Knight]

:D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oNdGHU_kHU

I love the little spin in mid-air! :applaud

[SuperDaniel]

The movie is years old and the flying looks more Fun than what was shown in S Returns. I remember being wide-eyed when I saw that scene.

[solidsnake86]

Hmmm.. the matrix reloaded wasnt that bad in all honesty, it was one big action set piece and I think it gets lumped in with revolutions, but I guess they were one giant film. Given with what singer did I would find it hard to believe that they would give the W-bros the chance but anything is possible. At least with them though, you can expect great action and if they did a reboot, I don't really see how it could be screwed up.

[Webhead2006]

Yea i have yet to watch all of speed racer for my self yet. Been meaning to just havent gotten around to it. As for the bros yes their last few films havent been the greatest films of all time. Though i do think it would be pretty interesting to see what they could give us. I would just hope for a good script, solid cast, and good fx/costumes and all the important things i would like to see. As for one thing i would totally want who ever is to be director to be a fan of the comics/character of superman and understand fully his mythos and all that.

[jpmuftak]

:D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oNdGHU_kHU

WOW!:funny: I remember spending HOURS doing this frame by frame in photoshop for like a 30 sec stupid clip. I can't believe that thing is still floating around. But yeah, I was pretty disappointed with SR's flying stuff.

[Webhead2006]

yea there is so many other films from the last few yrs that had flying characters i thought was much better then the SR flying sequences.

[SuperAl]

Francis Lawrence?? why would anyone want him on superman, he has no imagination what so ever, his vision of his monsters were soo friggin bad that it killed I Am Legend. Seriously i don't understand how someone could've made that movie so bad, the story is so perfect yet he screwed it up. I want Lawrence no way near Superman, i can just imagine it now, Brainiac being full CGI and incredibly fake looking. Only reason that movie made big bucks was cuz of Will Smith alone, so dont try to bring it up as a hit.

Wachowski bros made prolly one of the greatest movies ever in Matrix, and although Matrix 2 and 3 weren't great, they weren't bad either. V for Vendetta was also a pretty damn good movie in my opinion. Never saw speed racer tho, mainly cuz i thought the cartoon sucked. The Bros are at least guaranteed to give us awesome action scenes, which id happily take over Singer's version of a guy catchin stuff.

[Nightwing1977]

I dont really like the poll options cause neither really suits me I think.

I am excited to hear what the Wachowski's have in mind. They would certainly give a more visually stunning Superman, but I feel that when they arn't reigned in by the producer they either get ahead of themselves in the motifs and themes (a la Matrix sequels) or go a little crazy with the visuals (a la Speed Racer). I appreciate bringing in a new point of view, Im just not sure if the Wachowski's have the write POV for Superman

Agree.

Why would Warner Bros. take Superman, coming off a movie that they said underperformed, and give him to filmmakers coming off a huge bomb so that they can make a trilogy?
It just doesn't make sense to me in any way. What if the first movie of the trilogy also underperforms? What if they pick a new Superman and he is hated? Are they going to pick another Superman or will they just keep going with this trilogy no matter what? There is just too much that doesn't add up to take this as gospel right now.

Spot on, man! :up:

Because, looking at the Matrix movies, the Wachowsky can really make a great Superman movie.

Those movies were more like mindless action & no plot. That why part 2 & 3 suck. They just try to make a good story in those, but it only add confusion more than the first Mission: Impossible film.

^2 movies that sucked? No thanks...Constantine was ok-ish but I am Legend was one of the worst movies i've ever seen.

Really? The Wacky Bros. aren't any better, mind you. They have several movies that suck too. They're just almost on the same level as Francis Lawerence. ;)

[Dotten]

Oh people know how to contradict themselves when they state that it does not count that Wachowski made Matrix, "cause there is no guarantee that they can do it again" and the same time criticize the choise "because they made Speed Racer".

So what is it? Will they make a good movie because they made Matrix or will they make a bad movie because they made Speed Racer? Make up your mind people.

You can't shoot down the Matrix-argument and then use the Speed Racer argument and vice versa. That's just ignorant and dumb way of argumenting, it's like grasping for straws. :)

Some people seems to be caught by the captivity of negativity. Never listen to a cynic, they need to make life crap.

[Angeloz]

Has anyone seen the Wachowski Brothers rumour at Superman Homepage yet? Does that mean they'd make him a terrorist? I'm thinking "The Matrix" and "V for Vendetta" here. Hope not. ;) :)

Angeloz

[Lobo]

I'd actually love to see a Wachowski's Superman movie(s), Speed Racer was awesome, especially visually, I don't care what you all say :cmad:

[FilmNerdJamie]

I believe it has

http://splashpage.mtv.com/2008/07/23/exclusive-the-wachowskis-talk-plastic-man-movie/

That's an old interview from '96. My point is it hasn't been confirmed about Plastic Man happening now - nothing but rumors.

[GreenKToo]

I think it would be rather odd to make a plastic man film. He's not even a mildly known hero. Plus, he's to similar to Mr. Fantastic from the F4 films imo.

[Ultimate_Superman]

I would be okay with them directing Superman if they bring someone in from DC (Johns or Rucka) to help them out with the story and set design and feel of the movie. I just have no interest in seeing the Matrix under the name Superman. The only thing that I like right now out of all the Superman news that has been rumored is that we already have our Superman cast.

[FlawlessVictory]

I think it would be rather odd to make a plastic man film. He's not even a mildly known hero. Plus, he's to similar to Mr. Fantastic from the F4 films imo.

If a director had a choice between Plastic Man and Superman, chances are they are going with Superman. Especially, since this is the best time to board a Superman film, considering there is so much room to go upwards(in winning the approval of hardcore fans and the GA). You are coming on because the last film failed to reintroduce the character in a satisfying way. It's not like they would be coming onboard after a TDK type success. So little to lose and so much to gain if you are the Wachowskis right now and you are mulling over this decision.

[GreenKToo]

*IF* the bro's W do get it, I really hope they cast a top notch group of actors/actresses.
A little (or alot) of help from some DC writers wouldnt hurt either.

[Lobo]

I think it would be rather odd to make a plastic man film. He's not even a mildly known hero. Plus, he's to similar to Mr. Fantastic from the F4 films imo.

He's mildly known, many people my age grew up with Plastic Man cartoons.

[MissHades]

I like The Wachowski for a new Superman. In fact, they have room to work wonders with a new fanchise and, really, no one could make a worse movie than Singer's Superman Returns... it was one of the few movies that made me want to leave the theater before the end. Brandon Routh was a good choice, but everything else was bad (WTF was with casting THAT Louis Lane?!).

[Ultimate_Superman]

I like The Wachowski for a new Superman. In fact, they have room to work wonders with a new fanchise and, really, no one could make a worse movie than Singer's Superman Returns... it was one of the few movies that made me want to leave the theater before the end. Brandon Routh was a good choice, but everything else was bad (WTF was with casting THAT Louis Lane?!).:cmad::cmad::cmad:For the last time people it is Lois. Lois Lane not Louis Superman is not gay he is not Apollo from Wildstorm :cmad::cmad::cmad:

[CorpusBlack]

Screw'm all, I want the Millar version.

[CorpusBlack]

no one could make a worse movie than Singer's Superman Returns...

So you didn't see Superman III or IV then?

[kalelkilla]

I think they will be great for Superman, if they do indeed get it. Neo was essentially Superman of the Matrix world and is a Messianic character so I think they know how to handle the character and the issues that he would deal with in the real world. V for Vendetta was good and I think people are a little too harsh on the sequels to The Matrix for whatever reason. I would rather watch any of the Matrix movies and V for Vendetta over Superman Returns...the only thing that scares me is Speed Racer...yikes.

[elgaz]

I think they could do a good job.

Although many people criticise the Matrix sequels for their convoluted storytelling, an equal number of people (and I'm in this latter bunch) found them to be highly insightful and gripping, blending together many aspects of mythology, philosophy, science fiction and much more. They also came up with one of THE great bad guys of modern films in the form of Agent Smith.

The Wachowskis may have made their stories hugely complicated, but that was them working with a blank slate - with Superman, there is already a history in place which they will hopefully adhere to.

My only gripe with the Matrix was their over-reliance on CGi, hopefully they go for more live action if they end up being involved in the next Superman flick.

[Ultimate_Superman]

I think they could do a good job.

Although many people criticise the Matrix sequels for their convoluted storytelling, an equal number of people (and I'm in this latter bunch) found them to be highly insightful and gripping, blending together many aspects of mythology, philosophy, science fiction and much more. They also came up with one of THE great bad guys of modern films in the form of Agent Smith.

The Wachowskis may have made their stories hugely complicated, but that was them working with a blank slate - with Superman, there is already a history in place which they will hopefully adhere to.

My only gripe with the Matrix was their over-reliance on CGi, hopefully they go for more live action if they end up being involved in the next Superman flick.Well juding from Speed Racer I don't think they learned that yet.

[SuperDaniel]

What if the Wachowsky Bros are the directors Mark Millar was saying the whole time?

[Excel]

I brought up Francis Lawrence who directed WB's 585mil dollar smash "I am Legend." I also said I like the looks of his films and with better screenplays than "I am Legend" and "Constantine" I think that he would do a good job. (I liked both movies BTW but they weren't great or anything)

WB would not be able to get Lawrence. Show is saying they wanna keep the directors on a short leash.

[RachelDawes]

Here are my problems with it:

1. The Wachowski defenders are saying the movie will be good because the studio will have control over them. How reassuring is it that the brothers need to be babysat to produce a good movie? And why do people have faith in WB all of the sudden? People have been ripping the studio apart for not knowing what it is doing. Now "the studio" is supposed to be able to keep the Wachowskis in line?

2. People keep citing The Matrix as proof that the brothers will make a great movie. The Matrix had two things going for it -- a cool plot and ground-breaking special effects. However, people want someone other than them to come up with the plot for this one, and The Matrix was 10 years ago. Their last attempt to make a movie with ground-breaking fx was Speed Racer. And we all know how that turned out. Just because you can do something once does not mean you can do it again.

3. They haven't made a movie worth seeing since 1999. The sequels were abysmal and Speed Racer was an epic failure.

4. Let's say they somehow buck the odds and make a really good Superman movie. Then what? Are they going to be content to let WB control them on the sequels or are they going to want to do it their way? I think you know the answer and it's Superman Reloaded and Superman Revolutions.

There are just too many other directors available for Wanrer Bros. to take this big of a risk, because if they screw it up, we won't see another Superman movie for a very long time.

When I first read that the Wachowskis were rumored to be the next Superman directors my reaction was :dry: and your post nailed why I felt that way. I'm really nervous about letting one-hit-wonder directors whose most recent movie was a huge bomb direct the next Supes flick.

[Angeloz]

What if the Wachowsky Bros are the directors Mark Millar was saying the whole time?

I've been away. Also don't have everything memorised so explain please?

Angeloz

[JackMercy]

WB would not be able to get Lawrence. Show is saying they wanna keep the directors on a short leash.

What do you mean "would not be able to get"? Warners has a very good working relationship with F. Lawrence... He has done two pretty successful pictures for the studio...

:word:

[Sam]

What if the Wachowsky Bros are the directors Mark Millar was saying the whole time?

lol

That reminds me a post i did a long, long, looooooooooooooong time ago:

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?p=15771572#post15771572

But there are 2 things little weird... first, Wachowsky Bros like to write their own script... and Millar is strangely quiet about Superman movies last couple of months.

But Millar was talking about a trilogy, and now rumor of Wachowsky Bros is also about a trilogy... hm..

[Sam]

WB would not be able to get Lawrence. Show is saying they wanna keep the directors on a short leash.

Isnt Lawrence working in the sequel/prequel of I AM LEGEND?

[Showtime]

What do you mean "would not be able to get"? Warners has a very good working relationship with F. Lawrence... He has done two pretty successful pictures for the studio...

:word:

:wow:

[FlawlessVictory]

:wow:

You know something about WB looking at Lawrence for Superman don't you.

[JackMercy]

:wow:

Am I incorrect in my assertion, Show...? Just stating the facts...

:word:

[Excel]

What do you mean "would not be able to get"? Warners has a very good working relationship with F. Lawrence... He has done two pretty successful pictures for the studio...

:word:

I think that, if what show says bout wb keeping director on short leash true, hell be tough to get.

[Angeloz]

You do realise they sign actors up for trilogies in comic book films?

Angeloz

[Angeloz]

Accidental double post due to computer.

Angeloz

[Sam]

You do realise they sign actors up for trilogies in comic book films?

Angeloz

Tells that to Kate and rest of crew of SR. Most of rumors says they are all out, exept, MAYBE, Routh ;)

[Angeloz]

:cmad::cmad::cmad:For the last time people it is Lois. Lois Lane not Louis Superman is not gay he is not Apollo from Wildstorm :cmad::cmad:

But he and Batman make a good couple. :D

Actually I understand about the lack of being able to spell Lois frustration. You should joke instead. It's more fun. ;)

Angeloz

[Showtime]

Am I incorrect in my assertion, Show...? Just stating the facts...

:word:

Nope you are right on.

Lawrence and WB are surely on the same page and definitely have a good working relationship.

[Angeloz]

Tells that to Kate and rest of crew of SR. Most of rumors says they are all out, exept, MAYBE, Routh ;)

My point was that's why there's rumours of trilogies as that's de rigueur (standard practice). Even if they don't get made.

Angeloz

[JackMercy]

Nope you are right on.

Lawrence and WB are surely on the same page and definitely have a good working relationship.

I know that. Please tell excel, so I don't have to... :word:

[Showtime]

I think that, if what show says bout wb keeping director on short leash true, hell be tough to get.

WB would not be able to get Lawrence. Show is saying they wanna keep the directors on a short leash.

Lawrence wouldn't be a director that WB couldn't keep on a leash so to speak. He has a good relationship with them working and otherwise. Wouldn't be a problem.

You know something about WB looking at Lawrence for Superman don't you.

:gag:

[SuperDaniel]

What if the W Bros are the action directors Mark Millar was talking about the whole time?

[Showtime]

I know that. Please tell excel, so I don't have to... :word:

Taken care of. See above.

[Showtime]

What if the W Bros are the action directors Mark Millar was talking about the whole time?

Interesting point but he always said "director" and "he".

[Sam]

My point was that's why there's rumours of trilogies as that's de rigueur (standard practice). Even if they don't get made.

And my point is, develop a trilogy is way different than make 3 movies.

Spider-man isnt a trilogy. X-men isnt a trilogy. Those are 3 different movies, done once at a time.

What they are talking about is a trilogy.

[SuperDaniel]

Interesting point but he always said "director" and "he".
Maybe its because he didn't want us to find out. They have a huge pull at the WB and are big action directors. If Millar said directors, we would certainly know who they are, right?

It sounds like the W Bros would direct, Millar would write and Routh will be Superman maybe by WB's request.

[Daredevil_2003]

But he and Batman make a good couple. :D

Actually I understand about the lack of being able to spell Lois frustration. You should joke instead. It's more fun. ;)

AngelozYes, making fun of people with bad spelling/grammar is always more fun than just throwing a fit. :woot:

[Excel]

Lawrence wouldn't be a director that WB couldn't keep on a leash so to speak.

I doubt that, most directors want total control, espec. ones fresh off a 600 million hit.

[Showtime]

Maybe its because he didn't want us to find out. They have a huge pull at the WB and are big action directors. If Millar said directors, we would certainly know who they are, right?

It sounds like the W Bros would direct, Millar would write and Routh will be Superman maybe by WB's request.

I really don't think that is the case, but it is certainly a good theory.

[Showtime]

I doubt that, most directors want total control, espec. ones fresh off a 600 million hit.

If he keeps the budget where it should be and goes with the story they want, then they would have happy with the outcome. Those are two of the sticking points ie the leash.

[Excel]

I would bet it is a lot more than that. No way they have a grey backround retro look. Theyll want light bright and modern ala spidey and iron man.

[Showtime]

What?

[Angeloz]

And my point is, develop a trilogy is way different than make 3 movies.

Spider-man isnt a trilogy. X-men isnt a trilogy. Those are 3 different movies, done once at a time.

What they are talking about is a trilogy.

Comic book films get made one film at a time. Plus one film leads to the next (kind of although sometimes badly). The only exception is "Superman: The Movie" and "Superman II" as they made them at the same time although they changed things so one didn't lead as directly to the next.

Angeloz

[Daredevil_2003]

I would bet it is a lot more than that. No way they have a grey backround retro look. Theyll want light bright and modern ala spidey and iron man.lol wut?

[I Am The Knight]

...

[Showtime]

What is funny is that if the Wachowkis directed they would want to give everybody their version of Superman. They basically hid out in Germany making Speed Racer without any WB involvement.

[Sam]

Comic book films get made one film at a time. Plus one film lead to the next (kind of although sometimes badly). The only exception is "Superman: The Movie" and "Superman II" as they made them at the same time although they changed things so one didn't lead as directly to the next.

Angeloz

Right.

But Millar talked about a trilogy. W Bros rumor from McTeigue also says trilogy. That means, they have to outline a story for 3 movies. Or 3 stories for 3 movies.

Maybe they wont shoot it back to back like Lord of the Rings, but they will delivery a 3 stories, even if they shoot one at a time.

If all that is really moving fwd, of course.

[SuperDaniel]

I'm certainly that if they direct, we'll have great flying scenes. The end of Matrix Reloaded was just pure Superman.

[Angeloz]

Yes, making fun of people with bad spelling/grammar is always more fun than just throwing a fit. :woot:

Actually I mean joke that you didn't know Lois had a sex change recently so Clark's married to a man kind of thing. 'Cos I'd find it amusing. Getting mad is unnecessary plus bad for the blood pressure. ;)

Angeloz

[Sam]

I'm certainly that if they direct, we'll have great flying scenes. The end of Matrix Reloaded was just pure Superman.

"He is doing his Superman thing"

http://www.superwebdesign.com.br/neo_superman.jpg

[Saint]

If they were to direct but not write, there'd be considerable chance for greatness. If were to write it, also, then there might be a problem. The writing on The Matrix sequels was... not ideal.

[Excel]

What?

W.B. will more conditions than the 2 you mentioned. Singer made an unmarketable movie because it was so dull and gloomy looking.

[Angeloz]

W.B. will more conditions than the 2 you mentioned. Singer made an unmarketable movie because it was so dull and gloomy looking.

They want it darker like Batman. So goes the rumour. ;) :D

Angeloz

[Crook]

Darker as to what the character property allows. Big difference.

[Angeloz]

So will that mean the "Superman Lives" suit will show up? Anyone?

Angeloz

[Crook]

That would be under the category of "too dark".

[Angeloz]

Is there a smiley hitting a brick wall? 'Cos I could use that right now...

Angeloz

[Angeloz]

But fun if one doesn't take things seriously. I wait until I see a film to do so. ;)

Angeloz

[Double Down]

Is there a smiley hitting a brick wall? 'Cos I could use that right now...

Angeloz

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g39/doubledown44/bang.gif

[SuperDaniel]

If they were to direct but not write, there'd be considerable chance for greatness. If were to write it, also, then there might be a problem. The writing on The Matrix sequels was... not ideal.
I think the difference now is that Superman is not their character. All they need is stick to the best stories from the comics and make a good movie using a mix of them and their own spin.

[SuperDaniel]

"He is doing his Superman thing"

http://www.superwebdesign.com.br/neo_superman.jpg

I've been wanting to find this image with no success! Thanks for posting it! And that was awesome to watch in the theaters. The Superman fan inside me giggled. :up:

[Angeloz]

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g39/doubledown44/bang.gif

Hee. Thanks. :)

Angeloz

[Showtime]

W.B. will more conditions than the 2 you mentioned. Singer made an unmarketable movie because it was so dull and gloomy looking.

I'm sure there are a lot more Excel, but those are the two major ones and two that I was told.

[dark_b]

i think its all about the action. with the W brothers you get action on large scale and a superman mvoie should be large. thats why i think people want teh W brothers. the matrix movies story is in noo way connected to superman.
so i think its all about the action.

plus i think after speed racer they would create a world that would look interesting.

if the W brothers do this movie then WB needs to writte the script. if W do it it will be SR again.

[Daredevil_2003]

I think the difference now is that Superman is not their character. All they need is stick to the best stories from the comics and make a good movie using a mix of them and their own spin.Yeah, well, Speed wasn't their character either and it still blew hard.

So will that mean the "Superman Lives" suit will show up? Anyone?

AngelozI like the SL suit in this concept:

http://www.supermanhomepage.com/images/superman-lives/lives-costume.jpg

http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=livescostumeov6.jpg
I'd go for a more traditional color scheme, but that's still a step in the right direction, IMO.

W.B. will more conditions than the 2 you mentioned. Singer made an unmarketable movie because it was so dull and gloomy looking.I thought the movie looked great. The problem was more the dull story line.

[Angeloz]

I like the SL suit in this concept:

http://www.supermanhomepage.com/images/superman-lives/lives-costume.jpg

http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=livescostumeov6.jpg
I'd go for a more traditional color scheme, but that's still a step in the right direction, IMO.

It's very nice looking but is the message Darth Superman? If so, it needs breathing apparatus. ;) :D


I thought the movie looked great. The problem was more the dull story line.

I wouldn't object to more lighting for the next one. I loved the story but I'm weird that way. I just want to care about him and what's happening in his world.

Angeloz

[RachelDawes]

:D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oNdGHU_kHU

That was pretty cool. I wouldn't mind seeing something like that in a movie.

[Angeloz]

That was pretty cool. I wouldn't mind seeing something like that in a movie.

I'm lazy what is it?

Angeloz

[RachelDawes]

I'm lazy what is it?

Angeloz

Someone replaced Neo in a flight sequence with Superman. It's really short so I encourage you to watch it.

[Compi716]

The Wachowski presence guaranteed a no-Routh film.

This makes me sad.

[Angeloz]

Someone replaced Neo in a flight sequence with Superman. It's really short so I encourage you to watch it.

Saw it 'cos you convinced me. I like the actor and it is a cute clip. ;)

Will there be darkness complaints? ;) :)

Angeloz

[FlawlessVictory]

^Do you have an eye winking quota you have to meet a month?

[Excel]

I think the budget will depend. W.B. is the least cheap studio in the world (they just gave the w bros 180 million for speed racer). Cheaping out on Supes would be a huge mistake and I doubt they do it. I say they will pay top dollar if its for the film THEY want, and not the nessecarily the one the director wants.

[SuperAdam]

I am very interested in this news. I think this is what Mark Millar was talking about a few months ago. How he was pitching an idea for a trilogy with a big name director. The pieces certainly fit. Singer had his chance, and ****ed it up. He tried to simultaneously make a Donner Superman movie, and change things about the character that you should not change. I'm hoping for a Wachowski directed Millar written Superman trilogy.

[Angeloz]

^Do you have an eye winking quota you have to meet a month?

Yep. :D

Seriously I use them to indicate I'm kidding generally speaking.

I think the budget will depend. W.B. is the least cheap studio in the world (they just gave the w bros 180 million for speed racer). Cheaping out on Supes would be a huge mistake and I doubt they do it. I say they will pay top dollar if its for the film THEY want, and not the nessecarily the one the director wants.

They don't know what they want. They never have. Except the making money part. That's one of their problems.

Angeloz

[Daredevil_2003]

It's very nice looking but is the message Darth Superman? If so, it needs breathing apparatus. ;) :Dlol yah, like I said it definitely needs the traditional blue and gold there but it's a step in the right direction, colors or lack thereof not counted. Although I am really lovin that shade of red for the cape...





I wouldn't object to more lighting for the next one. I loved the story but I'm weird that way. I just want to care about him and what's happening in his world.

AngelozI loved the story too. I thought it was very well written and well executed by the cast, it was just the utter lack of action that makes it so underwhelming.

I don't think a superhero story needs a lot action to be good, but a movie definitely does, both for the ADD general populace and, in my own personal taste, because these movies are an event that only happens at least every 2 years. It's not a monthly comic that you can spend forever developing characters and plot threads on.

You gotta have some **** blowing up.

Michael Bay gets this very well :hehe:

Even Chris Nolan, a guy who's into the artsy aspects of storytelling just as much as Singer (and better at it, but that's another topic) gets it.

The set pieces in TDK were more numerous and better done than SR, and that movie actually had a more involving plot at the same time. Not gonna bang the Bat drum all day, just citing the example.

SR just needed more action, and maybe even (God forbid) a Metallo or a Parasite or even a guy in a mech to actually fight instead of just lifting heavy **** for 2 and half hours. :hehe:

[dark_b]

I think the budget will depend. W.B. is the least cheap studio in the world (they just gave the w bros 180 million for speed racer). Cheaping out on Supes would be a huge mistake and I doubt they do it. I say they will pay top dollar if its for the film THEY want, and not the nessecarily the one the director wants.i think 150 millions is enough foro an action packed superman movie.

200 milliosn was to much. i mean i wouldnt even give spielberg or bay so much money. some directors think that more is better. 200 will noone ever get. but 150 is possible IMO. if they go lower then i expect good action but a little more fake.

they should use ILM or WETTA. why? i will tell you why. wetta is now more then a 1 with james cameron in post production. wetta in 1 year learned more then sony imageworks in the last 5 years. why? becaue Cameron demans groundbreaking effect.s they can not use normal software. they have to do something new every month. they even did something new for cloth simulation. and i thought pixar perfected it. i guess no.
plus we have ILM that did some groundbreaking work on TF for building demolition. milions of particles. something that superman needs. plus they have good lighting experts. again something that an action CGI double needs.
sony is good IMO. but why not go to the best for the same amount of money?
and please use a lot of greenscreen. not for a sin city,300 effect.s not for a sky captain effect. but because it cheaper. that doesnt mean that they should film on greenscreen when someone is brushing their teeth. but dear lord singer was spending money for real cornfields then months later they had toreplace it with CGI cornfields because the real ones were not big enough.
greenscreen where you need it and where it cheaper.

[Daredevil_2003]

I think that 200 million is a fine budget for a sequel or a film that's pretty much a guaranteed blockbuster.

You need a better director, though. Singer seems like a guy that doesn't know how to handle money efficiently. The budget for SR was supposedly a little over 200 mill...where the hell did all that money go? No movie with so little action and the required large amount of effects should cost that much. Transformers 2? Yeah, definitely needs a lot of dough to make the ridiculous amount of effects look real, but Superman Returns? And if you are gonna blow that much, the effects should look better than they did, at least. What a waste of Benjamins, that movie was...

[dark_b]

Benjamin used a lot of a times a photosrealistic 100% CGI brad pitt head. when you do something the first time its expensive.

[Daredevil_2003]

when you do something the first time its expensive.True, but I don't see how it relates to Superman. Flying effects and explosions and photorealistic enviroments/characters have been done before. Plenty. I say it's poor management of the budget on the film crew's part...

[dark_b]

sorry when you said Benjamins i thought you meant The Curious Case of Benjamin Button. i guess you meant benjamin for money?

[GreenKToo]

yup, as in 100 dollar bills.

[Superfreak]

Yeah, well, Speed wasn't their character either and it still blew hard.

I like the SL suit in this concept:

http://www.supermanhomepage.com/images/superman-lives/lives-costume.jpg

http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=livescostumeov6.jpg
I'd go for a more traditional color scheme, but that's still a step in the right direction, IMO.

I thought the movie looked great. The problem was more the dull story line.

I saw this maniped into blue and red, and it looked quite good. But I think it was because the artistry ended up looking like rippling muscles when in blue.

[Daredevil_2003]

sorry when you said Benjamins i thought you meant The Curious Case of Benjamin Button. i guess you meant benjamin for money?lol Yes, sorry for the confusion/ :hehe:

[Angeloz]

Then there's those of us that aren't from the U.S.A. although I know the term.

Angeloz

[Nightwing1977]

My only gripe with the Matrix was their over-reliance on CGi, hopefully they go for more live action if they end up being involved in the next Superman flick.



That what I'm afraid of. I want Superman film to only have CGI when a simple F/X won't cut it. Nolan didn't use a lot of CGI with how he prefer to make his Batman films look as real as possible. I want the same for Superman & it can be cheaper too. Beside, some fans complain about Superman being CGI few times in SR when it would've been cheaper to use more of Routh instead. The W. Bros would go overboard with too much CGI as we seen in Speed Racer.

[GreenKToo]

I dont mind CG when it's good. There is no reason to CG a flying shot of Superman up close. Thats wasteful imo, not to mention just silly.

[bunk]

That what I'm afraid of. I want Superman film to only have CGI when a simple F/X won't cut it. Nolan didn't use a lot of CGI with how he prefer to make his Batman films look as real as possible. I want the same for Superman & it can be cheaper too. Beside, some fans complain about Superman being CGI few times in SR when it would've been cheaper to use more of Routh instead. The W. Bros would go overboard with too much CGI as we seen in Speed Racer.

I agree about the W's being very into CGI use. I wouldn't say because Nolan saved the CGI mostly for backgrounds that it's somehow possible to do the same with Superman. The characters are completely different. There should be perfectly reasonable middle ground somewhere in there with another director. I'm not convinced the W's could deliver it though.

[Sam]

I've been wanting to find this image with no success! Thanks for posting it! And that was awesome to watch in the theaters. The Superman fan inside me giggled. :up:

Np! Glad u like it!

[Daredevil_2003]

That what I'm afraid of. I want Superman film to only have CGI when a simple F/X won't cut it. Nolan didn't use a lot of CGI with how he prefer to make his Batman films look as real as possible. I want the same for Superman & it can be cheaper too. Beside, some fans complain about Superman being CGI few times in SR when it would've been cheaper to use more of Routh instead. The W. Bros would go overboard with too much CGI as we seen in Speed Racer.I agree 100%. :up:

[dark_b]

That what I'm afraid of. I want Superman film to only have CGI when a simple F/X won't cut it. Nolan didn't use a lot of CGI with how he prefer to make his Batman films look as real as possible. I want the same for Superman & it can be cheaper too. Beside, some fans complain about Superman being CGI few times in SR when it would've been cheaper to use more of Routh instead. The W. Bros would go overboard with too much CGI as we seen in Speed Racer.really this is really getting out of hand. so everytime nolan and batman hhhh????????
so now even when we talk about a CGI double?

how can you compare a movie with a norlam guy in a suit fighting ninjas? hpw can you compare wit ha movie that for action a flipped truck,batman punching,joker doing hes card trick.
ohhh i remember now. Nolan did in every movie a flying scene. ohhhhhhhhh now i remember it was CGI. shoooooooow me in TDK a flying scene with the real suit and a cloe up. ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh batman was CGI when he was gliding in the iar .ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh there was no close up.

we are going to compare Nolans batman movies to a superman movie where we (i hope) get superman flying through buildings,flying through the clouds,.......
make no mistake.....i will never defend SR's CGI because it was not good enough for 200 milions, there was not enough action for 200 milions. and I DONT remember where they used their XYZ rig that was ''supposed'' to be groundbreaking wirework in 2006. they had a whole wire-arena only to film flying on wires. i dont know where this was in the movie. give me answers Singer. where is this groundbreaking wirework that we were supposed to see?
when superman is flying down to catch the plane it is a real him. but this was not the XYZ rig. this was basic use of wires in a bigbudget movie.
http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/643/bts128ho4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/522/bts113ln2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/4031/15925supermanlxa4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

''sophisticated visual effect tool''
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56rr5_uWLsI

i want to punch him in the face. you have 200 millions and its superman and this is the best you can do? brandon on wires and the camera is moving next to him? for this you need 200 millions?

i will say the last shot of superman in space flying to the camera was amazing. it was brandon + a CGI cape. it was a really good composited shot.

[Daredevil_2003]

I'm thinking of Superman effects more in the line of Transformers, as well as Batman. It's obvious you need CGI for a movie like this, but the former of those two had as much as possible done for real. Anything that could be done was done. Most of the action scenes with the robots are mostly live-action footage with the robots added in. That's what I'm thinking. Do as much as you possibly can for real. And when you do use CGI, make it look better than SR. As I said, it looked like WB should have asked Singer for their money back...Transformer's effects were leagues ahead, IMO, and the film cost 50 million less.

[Showtime]

If I told you a rumor involving CGI for the next Superman film...you might go over the edge DB.

[Angeloz]

I love that middle shot. ;) :D

Angeloz

[Daredevil_2003]

If I told you a rumor involving CGI for the next Superman film...you might go over the edge DB.:facepalm: My blood pressure might regret this, but, do tell. :meanie: